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Michael Moore calls all of you SICKOS to tell you the status of his next flick, aimed at America's Health Care System!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here. I know the subject of Michael Moore is a controversial one, but despite the post FAHRENHEIT 9/11 backlash I still think he's a powerful filmmaker. I love it when he pulls the curtain that separates the big players stealing our money and us. I love watching him embarrass some piece of shit greedy asshole who delights in hiding in his office while he puts a couple million bucks in his own pocket as he ruins a few hundred thousand lives. Moore's early work made me a fan and as one of the 45 million people in America without any form of health care I can't wait for SICKO.
Anyway, Moore sent out a message to the subscribers to his mailing list updating them on the state of SICKO. Below is that letter, which can also be found on his website.
Friends,
Just a quick note to let you know how things are going.
Back in February, I asked if people would send me letters describing their experiences with our health care system. I received over 19,000 of them. It was truly overwhelming as we literally took a month and read them all. To read about the misery people are put through on a daily basis by our profit-based system was both moving and revolting. That's all I will say right now.
We've spent the better part of this year shooting our next movie, "Sicko." As we've done with our other films, we don't discuss them while we are making them. If people ask, we tell them "Sicko" is "a comedy about 45 million people with no health care in the richest country on earth."
But like my other movies, what we start with (General Motors, guns, 9/11) is not always what we end with. Along the way, we discover new roads to go down, roads that often surprise us and lead us to new ideas -- and challenge us to reconsider the ones we began with. That, I can say with certainty, is happening now as we shoot "Sicko." I don't think the country needs a movie that tells you that HMOs and the pharmaceutical companies suck. Everybody knows that. I'd like to show you some things you don't know. So stay tuned for where this movie has led me. I think you might enjoy it.
At this point, we've shot about 75% of "Sicko" and will soon begin putting it together. It will be released in theaters sometime in 2007.
And if you don't hear much from me in the meantime, it's only 'cause I'm busy working. I realize that my silence doesn't stop the opposition with their weird obsession for me! It seems like not a week passes without my good name being worked into some nutty news story or commentary. (I have to say, though, I did enjoy Tom Delay blaming meand Ms. Streisand for why he had to resign from Congress!)
I hope all of you are enjoying your summer. If you're near the state of Michigan later this month, I'll be putting on the second annual Traverse City Film Festival in Traverse City, Michigan. I've personally selected 60 or so movies that I love, many of which did not get the notice or distribution they deserved. Others are brand new independent movies and documentaries that I hope will find a large audience when they are released.
The film festival will take place in this beautiful town in northern Michigan, from July 31st to August 6th. Appearing in person with their films will be David O. Russell ("Three Kings"), Lawrence Bender ("An Inconvenient Truth"), Terry George ("Hotel Rwanda"), Larry Charles ("Borat"), plus Jeff Garlin, Jake Kasdan, and other filmmakers. We're also going to show every feature film made by the greatest American director of all time, Stanley Kubrick. Joining us in person will be his executive producer, Jan Harlan, and actors Malcolm McDowell ("A Clockwork Orange") and Matthew Modine ("Full Metal Jacket"). We'll also be presenting a special salute to films made in Iran (a sort of "Let's get to know them first this time!" effort).
If you'd like to see the entire list of films, click here. Tickets go on sale today (July 7) at noon. To purchase your tickets (all seats $7), click hereor call 231-929-1506. Last year we had 50,000 admissions, and we expect most films to sell out early this year.
Well, that's it for now. Bush has quietly closed down the special section of the CIA that was devoted solely to capturing Mr. bin Laden, so we can all rest easy now. I wonder who his next scary evildoer will be? A fearful nation awaits its marching orders, sir!
Yours,
Michael Moore
If I wasn't a fan before, how about that fucking Kubrick Tribute he's running as part of that film festival? I'd kill to see all of Kubrick's films theatrically, with special guests in attendance. Too cool! Now I'll let the Anti-Moores have their say.
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Looks great.
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time to go to beddybye.
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The French seem to do it. The Brits are always envious of them. Personally, whatever the flaws the crumbling British healthcare system may have, it's still miles better than the US one.
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Or was that someone else?...Shit Im fucked up right now...If you want to get fucked up, then see my features at
http://www.youtube.com/user/DarthEvilDead -
of the Empire of the United States. But it wouldn't hurt if he looked for inspiration in other countries than Canada. The smarmy cheap shots could also be less in number.
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Jul 10, 2006 4:41:54 AM CDT
Funny guy, Michael Moore. Factual inaccuracies aside...
by the wrong guy
I enjoy his movies. Well, not F911. That was a piece of crap. But the rest of his movies I liked. Yes, even Canadian Bacon.
And his TV show The Awful Truth was awfully entertaining, too. And that's a pretty good line-up, at there festival of his. -
I am a huge Michael Moore fan and can't wait for this film to be shown. I'm English and have National Heathcare (yes, it really can be done) and can't understand how a county as wealthy as America can spend so much on war and completely ignore people who are suffering at home!
All you right-wingers can have a pop at me now! haha! -
Or was that someone else?
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You get what you're happy with. The U.S. was a democracy the last time I looked. You wanna fix Healthcare then.......hang on, sorry...it tells it's citizens the U.S. is a democracy but Bush was elected??
Typical loony leftie Moore must be. Off to Canada again whilst American film crews go begging! ;) -
Because at the end of the movie, you don't come out saying "Man, those gun companies are jerks. I am glad I am a liberal." Instead, you come out feeling like you are somehow a tiny part of the problem and there is no easy solution. Thats how effective political documentries work. F911 felt like a rip on Bush and never really takled the issue of fear it intended to, but Bowling turned out to be a better documentry on fear and violence than guns. We will have to see what way his new movie turns. Towards to absurb or towards the truely meaningful.
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I'm thinking Moore rushed F911 to get it released on time, and was also blinded by his sheer desire to dethrone Bush- as a result the quality of the film suffered a lot. With more time to properly plan his next film, Sicko should be a more polished effort.
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Fuck hypocrite.
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Sounds interesting.. I thought F911 was really entertaining.. Entertaining. As well as his other movies.
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Quint doesn't have health insurance? Are you retarded? You know you can purchase it. I pay $80 a month, but i do have a job.
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You people are idiots. Why is the government's (read: taxpayer's) job to provide anyone with healthcare? What other things does the government run efficiently such that you think that federal healthcare would be good?
Do you realize that Canada has national healthcare, yet its citizens (who can afford it) flock to the US for their healthcare? Can you imagine waiting months in line just to get an MRI? In some provinces you will go to jail if you visit a private doctor in Canada.
I simply cannot believe that some of you (and Michael Moore) believe that it's ok to take money from one person, against their will, and give it to someone else for healthcare.
Here's an idea...how about attack the root of why health insurance is so expensive...frivilous lawsuits. Punish people severely who try to milk the system and it will stop.
Unfortunantely, you sheep will again just wait for the government to take care of all your problems.
I, for one, look forward to the day when another 5% of my paycheck is taken to provide a heart/lung transplant for a chain smoker. I mean, that's my duty as an American citizen, right? Idiots. -
When I said "yet its citizens (who can afford it)" I meant those citizens who are able to afford it (I didn't mean that all Canadians can afford it).
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Attitude that is wrong with the USA. So what if people don't have the money for food, shelter, health care? I have a job and a house and 2 cars so fuck 'em. Right? As ever the answer is a moderate middle way. National health care with the option of paying for private treatment if you wish. Rag on the UK all you want, they don't leave people to die for want of some treatment.
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brycemonkey: please focus as tightly as possible and answer this question: Why is it ok for the federal government to take my money against my will to pay for someone else's healthcare?
So I take it there should be no limitations...drug addicts, drunks, crack heads...they should all receive healthcare on the taxpayer's dime, right?
Have you considered that if they don't have money for healthcare now, that they wouldn't be contributing to any federalized system?
Stop for a moment to consider why it is that they don't have money for healthcare. Could it possibly be that they have their priorities out of order?
By the way - the US is the richest nation in the world, and the vast majority of children have food and shelter. -
They manage just fine in the UK to treat everyone that wants medical care regardless. You are on a slippery slope there, why stop with drug addicts? Overweight people, smokers, motorbike riders, people that play contact sports. They could cost more to treat right? You are all turned around on this subject. They aren't 'stealing' your money. No one wants to be sick (have you been in a hospital recently?). The government could do it if they wanted but they are too frightened to upset big business or upper/middle class earners by taxing them. So 'the system doesn't/wouldn't work'. Right, becasue no other country can do it. Of, wait...
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The government "misplacing" over 8 BILLION dollars in Iraq under the Coalition Provisional Authority? Halliburton walking away with billions of dollars in no-bid contracts? And this is just to take care of people who aren't even Americans. I'd rather see that money go to rehab a crackhead than to treat some Iraqi with a bullet wound he received while shooting at an American soldier. I think that the government should step in and put some controls over the insurance companies. Why should premiums increase at a higher percentage rate than a person's annual income? I don't advocate Uncle Sam taking care of my health needs, hell, they can't even take care of vets. I would just like to see them put some checks on the greedy insurance companies. Good for Moore on the film festival and taking on subjects that need discussed. Communication is the only way to address and solve problems.
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but you need to look at it as your contribution to live in a civilized society. I'd much rather not pay taxes (I am highly trained and paid). But then that is outweighed by my desire not to have to live behind a barbed wire fence, own guns and have to step over dead people on my way to work who have died as a result of not 'conforming' to our society. It's easy to say 'Get a job!' over the annonimity of the internet. It's another to say it to people dieing on your doorstep because you want a new TV...I'm just saying there is and should be a moderate way to tackle this. PS sorry for the typos, I'm sure my drift comes through.
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Well, if they weren't, they wouldn't be Republicans, now would they? bmishoe, which idiot told you that "frivolous lawsuits" are the reason for expensive health care? If that were true, HMOs would be struggling instead of making record profits. (The GAO and the GBO both say lawsuits have little or no effect on HMOs: http://tinyurl.com/folq3) The entire notion is a fallacy designed to pass laws to shield corporations from paying what they promise and intimidating people from filing rightful lawsuits in the first place. But thanks for parroting the "tort reform" lobbyists' talking points - I'm sure they appreciate it and are flattered their crap made it all the way onto a message board for geeks.
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Bmishoe, using your twisted logic, people who oppose the war in Iraq should be able to withhold their taxes that go to the military. The cost of the war should be paid only be people who support it or are fighting in it, right???
What about roads? If you only drive a couple of days a week, why not withhold your taxes that are used to fund roads? And if you vote Republican, surely you can withhold your taxes that would be used to bolster the Democrats. You make absolutely no sense with your argument. I live in Australia. We have a national healthcare system and it means if I get hit by a car, get a terminal disease etc, I don't have to sell my home or just lie in bed and die because I can't afford the treatment. Other countries seem to be able to do it fine and it works, just not the richest country in the world..... Healthcare and education should be basic rights provided by any government to its people, breaking through class and economic barriers. You don't have that basic right of health care in the US and, based on your ridiculous logic, it looks like you don't have the education either.... -
...and the vast majority of children have food and shelter." I don't think I even have to comment on this one...
(oh alright then - "the vast majority" - What excuse exactly is there for there being any, if you have so much cash? To incentivize them into starting their own businesses? To highlight the effects of bad parenting? Because all men are created equal, but after the instant of their creation, market forces take over, and why would we argue with the market? Divine providence? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/4307745.stm#map) -
I mean, I know our system isn't perfect, and I'm looking forward to seeing Moore's take on the whole mess, but come on, Quint, you're no spring chicken--buy health insurance. To just cover yourself is probably only around $100 a month, and it's worth it if anything at all happens to you. You can't blame the system for you not bothering to sign up for some form of insurance.
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HJ - no, I'm not at all saying that Republicans don't have any form of corruption or that there isn't a lot of other forms of government waste, because there are. I just see this issue as being so much larger scale...
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brycemonkey - You are a classic example of someone who thinks that government is the answer to your problems. You think the only options are to either pay taxes or live under military law.
Good grief - the government does not give you any rights nor freedoms - you have those rights and freedoms because you are a human being. One of the few legitimate functions of government is to protect those rights.
Maybe you guys should tell me what things the gov't should *not* be responsible. Already many Americans believe that gov't should handle their retirement, pay for their gasoline, pay to heat their houses...I just wonder at which poing you think it should stop? Do you realize that this is a path towards complete socialism? -
the government does provide rights and freedoms...so shut up. Yeah we're all humans and we're all born with rights and freedom, but come on, look at africa, if the government doesn't want u to have rights, ur not gonna have any. Hello Patriot act, you think thats protecting our rights? Why shouldn't the government help the weak, drug addicts, crackheads, prostitutes? Are hollywood a-listers who're addicted to crack crackheads? According to ur logic, no, cause they have money to go get themselves into rehab. Which means, a drug habit is ok if ur rich enough to afford it. The problem with people like you is, because you don't identify with any of those "social vices", you think everyone can easily avoid them, and have zero compassion or interest in helping people who have em. Instead, you want to hold on to your money, cause God knows, the one thing we've learnt in this country is how important money is over everything else. Maybe you should try to investigate why drugs proliferate and what socio economic factors cause there to be prostitutes and crackheads and drug addicts. Some people say HIV positive ppl shouldn't get special treatment, cause they got the disease because of their own negligence. Is that what u think too?
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Powerful fimmaker? Powerful filmmaker?! You have got to be kidding me. I can think of many MANY names for this bulbous and bouncy buffoon... but the words "Powerful filmmaker" are not included in said list.
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Bmishoe, "the vast majority of children have food and shelter." as for child mortality, the U.S. ranks well below any other industrial country, right alongside of Cuba, which has less than 5% the GNP per capita of the United States. All that money and all those dead kids. That seems fair, those little babies should probably get off their lazy asses and get a job.
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You highlight a problem that many Americans have. Call it dogma or extremism or fundamentalism. "You either think this, or you think that." There are always more than 2 options (although in US politics this is anathama). Society is too complex to have a 'one size fits all' attitude. The government should be there to help the citizens who can't help themselves AND to allow individuals to prosper through free enterprise. Extremism never works as you will always marginalize a faction of the society you are part of. And God hep you if you fall into that faction.
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1. If you hate big government, why would you (presumably) support this administration? HUGE government, and they're stomping on your personal freedoms, too.
b. So we all have rights as human beings, up until we get sick?
3. "Many Americans want" the government to pay for their retirement, gas, or heating? Which part of your ass did you pull that out of, exactly?
d. Oh, you don't want "complete capitalism", either. A week of that, and you'd be begging for a little goverment regulation.
5. Seriously, dude - just stop typing. You dig yourself a deeper and deeper hole with each successive post. I will say this, though - I will never understand the right-wing predilection for advocating AGAINST their own personal interests. I'm sure you'll continue to rail against regulation of the health care industry, not really understanding why...until you or someone close to you gets screwed by an HMO. Then you won't be able to find a lawyer quick enough, and your views will change overnight. -
I think Moore's opinion will be that it doesn't go too far enough. And I'm sure he'll ramp up the propaganda machine to show those poor sick people who can't afford medical care. Well, without government regulations on insurance and the government health care system, health care would be a lot cheaper in general.
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Abortion clinics need to be targeted at certain aspects of the population Have a government run and paid for one in every trailer park, on every corner in the ghetto - keep the undesirables in check. It would cull the chaff from society and cut down on that unfortunate dead kid statistic.
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That fatass has been keeping a low (in accordance to his character) profile since America told him to stuff "F9/11" up his ponderous anal orifice and voted Bush back into office. And how funny to see people here defend Moore's attack on America's health system. Riiiighhht. So much worse than Canada's, or Britian's. No, my hard-earned money should NOT go to pay for some loser's health care, or for some idiot broad's inability to stop breeding kids she can't afford to raise, or the deadbeat father who cuts and runs a la the Democrats' Iraq strategy. Moore's lost so much credibility he makes Howard Dean look sane. All you whiners are a hoot. The gov't is SUPPOSED to take care of me, I don't want to support myself, think for myself, or work too hard. YAY SOCIALISM! It's the American way! Give me a break.
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Someone dumber than dmishoe. I'm sure he thanks you for taking the heat off him, rimshot.
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One cant help but notice that enlightened liberal Harry, who claims on his MySpace page to make in the low to mid 6 digit range for income, apparently doesnt pay his employees enough to pay for helthcare yet the soulless megacorporation i slave for pays my entire health insurance sans a 50 dollar fee per annum. Hmmmm
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Just kidding! Right on, Mr Moore! Old europe loves you!
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Does he really earn over a million a year? Wow, no wonder he doesn't give a shit when people question his reviews... And if that is true there is no reason why all the people that make up this site shouldn't be pulling down decent cash and bonuses.
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Sure, they've got socialized medicine but they've also got waiting lines extending halfway from Toronto to Montreal. Just try and get a knee or hip replacement in Ontario. 2 years minimum waiting time. There are far better examples of a mixed socialized/competition system than the Canadian socialist medical system.
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First off, those #s are bogus. If you change jobs and elect not to take Cobra for a month you are officially tallied as not having health insurance. So many of the millions are people who took a chance and ELECTED to not pay for health insurance for 30-90 days. Do you remember "HillaryCare"? There would be a "gate keeper" that would decide if your condition was worthy of medical attention. 20% of the GNP for that?? I have an aunt who lives in Holland and needed a kidney transplant. If she didn't come to America to take care of it she would have been DEAD! They simply could not accomodate her.
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Otherwise, he'd hire people who could write. :P I always figured they did it out of love, and the promise of set visits and free screenings through Harry's contacts. If I'm wrong, someone let me know. But I really don't think Harry is incorporated, much less providing employer-based health care.
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"Canadians are flocking to the US for health care"? I'm Canadian and that's news to me. Yes it's true "some" Canadian go down to speed up their chances but that's no different than someone from the U.S. going to Italy for a better diagnosis/treatment for breast cancer. Believe it or ot it's true. Our health care system is no better, no worse than that of the U.S. I can go into any state in the U.S and get shitty health care and as well great health care while I can do the same here in Canada with any province. Yes it may take months to wait for an MRI but that's because we currently have a shortage of doctors. A lot of doctors move down to the U.S. where they can make big bucks. But frequently after a few years many come back. Keep in mind if you are seriously sick then you do get bumped up. Also just recently my mom was in the hospital where they took scans, blood work, xrays, etc. The bill was $0.
You don't get arrested for using a private clinic. Private clinics are illegal at the moment, but it is being debated. It's possible you may get arrested for opening an illegal clinic. But I'm not 100% on that. The problem is if we allow private clinics, then you foster in the "Have" and "Have nots". If health care is free for all, the we should all be treated equally.
Canadians generally do complain about our health services. I kinda suspect most people around the world do the same about their own. It does have it's shortages but it also does have it's benefits.
Please inform yourself properly before speaking.
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So they contribute out of their love for Harry - and Harry reaps the profits. If that aint the epitome of Capitalism, baby, i don't know what is.
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So, because they're liberals, Harry and Michael Moore can't make money? Or crusade for people who aren't as well off? You idiot.
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Funny thing about Michael Moore. That he's a lying fraud and a hypocrit is a given (the fact that he still has fans demonstrates the power of self delusion, IMHO.) But the one thing that few people have noted is that his pieces of prevarication that have been falsely called "documentaries" have had the opposite effect than intended. Think about it. The NRA is stronger than ever. And George W. Bush is still in the White House. I predict that when teh fat one's latest piece of offal hits the screens, it will be hailed as another masterwork by the usual suspects, revealed to be filled with lies, and will not usher in Canadian style Stalinist health care in this country.
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He's no different than Jerry Falwell. They both play for the same nut job team. Just Moore is in left field and Falwell is in the right. Meanwhile the rest of us normal people up to bat and striking out miserably.
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Moore will try to convince us that there are millions dying at the hospital door. He is so convinced that his view is the correct one he will deceive and muddy up everything. If he took a balanced approach and touted what was good about our health care system and then talked about IMPROVING it, people might take it seriously. Instead, he will do another Good vs. Evil approach that will accomplish nothing but lining his already deep pockets.
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Did Luscious-868 just blame "the blacks"? LOL
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Dear left wing morons: Stop making the idiotic comparisons between the US and Canada. For one, the US has 250 million more people. Second, the Canadians I know come to the US for the healthcare when they have a serious problem, because they have to wait a YEAR to see a friggin doctor. Third, we have over 2 MILLIONS illegal Mexicans a year flooding the country and over burdening the healthcare system. Have any hospitals close in your area lately? That is because Jose, Maria, and Tomas are going to the ER to get flu shots, give birth and get their back adjusted, all on the backs of Americans tax dollars and health care premiums. Want to be able to give free healthcare to everyone? Stop the flood and abuse of "Los Illegals" and get fat people like Moore to loose weight (Obesity is the number one cause of health problems). Bite me losers....
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Conservative Republicans attack anyone who dare challenge their American hegemony. How's that for freedom (freedom to attack, intimidate, marginalize)? If conservative republican's were such staunch advocates of freedom they would welcome voices of dissent. Beside, in order to stave of complacency they need Michael Moore to fan their flames of righteous indignation.
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I'm an analyst at a hospital and have my master's in healthcare finance and to be honest, I don't have anything personally against Moore but I will say the large reasons why our healthcare is so expensive are litigation and technology. In short, the consumer (gotta have the best now) attitude of Americans are running the healthcare industry into the ground. Therefore, we have to charge more. Not everyone needs a full-body scan MRI done everytime you have a cough. But since Americans want them, and will sue if anything goes wrong (believe me, doctors can complain all they want about high costs of mistakes, but it's crazy how many mistakes are made in the medical field everyday. I know, I see the codes), the high cost of healthcare blame lies chiefly on the shoulders of you and I. And heck, as a taxpayor, and insurance is covering it anyway, next time I get a cough, I want every single test known to man done on me too.
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you're blaming "2 million mexicans a year" for America's problems. what an idiot! It is the mexicans who prop up the country by doing the shit jobs for hit pay that a middle-class racist moron like you won't do. Why do you think Bush gave amnesty to all those illegal immigrants? because he knows the US would be in deep shit without them and a lot of Ameria's profits are on the back of exploiting the mexicans, much like America's early wealth was on the back on the work done by slaves. You shouldn't be blaming the Mexicans, you should be thanking them!
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Now it's the Mexicans' fault. Personally, I don't like the Scots-Irish. I just don't trust 'em. :P And, Kamala? There wouldn't be an immigration problem if business wasn't so enamored with cheap/slave labor.
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I gotta say, Canada isn't the great place everyone thinks it is in terms of health care. A good friend spent 2 MONTHS after giving birth with a rotting piece of placenta in her. The doctors told her she needed it out ASAP, but she was put on a waiting list for surgery.
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Oh no, heads of lettuce might go up a dime! Our very society will crumble! What a crock! If you liberals are so concerned about Mexicans, why do you want them to continue to work in slave labor? Isn't that a bad thing? Wouldn't it be better if they came here legally and got a good job?
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...even if those who talk about our healthcare system up here are way off the mark.
Wait months for an MRI? Well, I suppose the 5 weeks I waited does count as 'months' -- and wait YEAR for a doctor: where the hell did that fallicy come from? A friend of mine had a troubled pregnancy and got visits from Toronto's best baby doctor every other day for 8 months.
People run to the U.S. for healthcare? Sure, the rich & impatient people do ("I'm not waiting 5 weeks! DO you know who I am!?!").
I agree that the system is not perfect and that the States should get info on their proposed system from as many different sources as possible. But for these so-called 'experts' who continue to trash the Canadian system based on some rumour they overheard from a friend of a friend at the bar after a few drinks; don't forget that Americans run up here frequently for a doctor and inexpensive perscriptions.
I'm glad these 'experts' on the Canadian health care system spill their drivel on a movie site where it will be regarded properly.
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Because for every drug that is approved by the FDA, hundreds are denied or never even make it to the approval process. We're paying for research, pure and simple. You can also lay a bit of the blame at the FDA's feet, an organization that has become risk-averse to the point that many good drugs are being shelved. This is a point I don't expect Michael Moore to bring up. I also don't expect him to mention Pharma Code (a set of guidelines many pharmaceutical companies have willingly adopted to self-regulate ethical promotional practices), nor do I expect to see anything on how government programs actually end up increasing the cost of healthcare and prices taxpayers out of treatment.
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Hey asswipe. Middle Class Americans don
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"If you liberals are so concerned about Mexicans, why do you want them to continue to work in slave labor? Isn't that a bad thing?" ... Yes it is a bad thing. What a stupid question, you moron!
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"If you liberals are so concerned about Mexicans, why do you want them to continue to work in slave labor?" Uh, we don't. Next?
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It smells like... STUPID in The Land of the Free...
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If you go into surgery to have a gall bladder removed and instead wake up with your right arm amputated, suck it up. Doctors are stressed and make mistakes. This is how the republican party would have it. Isn't it better that the doctor be a little worried... like, "I better not make a mistake and hurt this person or my life, like thiers, is screwed."... This is how it is now, and how it should be, if not better. You people who say frivolous lawsuits are causing the problems are either brainwashed or stupid. Malpractice lawsuits are the severe penalties bad doctors pay for severely fucking up people's lives. Why does anyone who isn't a - Bad Doctor - have a problem with this? I think there are a lot of doctors in the republican ranks and thier words resonate throughout the order.
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The illegals will never be anything more than cheap/slave labor if they stay illegal. that is why Big Business wants amnesty. They are anticipating that they won't ever gain legal status and will continue to work shit jobs. If you care about them you should want them deported and re-enter the country legally. That way they might actually have a chance! But hey, I'm sure you guys know what is really best for them.
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Hey Kamala, I'm a 35-year-old college educated businessman who owns his own home so stick you un-educated head back up your own ass. It is morons like you with an exagerrated opinion of their own importance but with a breathtaking lack of knowldege on the subject they are screaming about that contribute fuck all to making the US a better country. I have much more respect for a mexican who is prepared to work three shit jobs to get a better life for his family than a lazy, racist fuck like you.
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Some of you claiming to "know" Canadians are an utter fucking joke. Guess what, I *am* one, and there isn't a waiting list from Toronto to Montreal, nor do you wait two years if you have a serious problem. And the hip/knee replacement wait time in Ontario is not "two years minimum." There was an infamous case of a two year wait time, but the actual wait time in serious cases is far below that. I know because a friend just had a knee done after six months.
Like most countries, the problem is with smaller towns. Canada has a doctor shortage in smaller towns as physicians and surgeons don't want to be located in them. We also don't recognize the credentials of foreign docters without a battery of tests, which, depending on whether or not you agree they should be allowed to practice, means we lose potential doctors.
And aside from hips and knees (which are unlikely to kill you) wait times are much quicker. I had surgery (non-life threatening, non-invasive heart surgery) several months ago. My wait time was two months, and this was an *elective* procedure that could be controlled via medication (I simply didn't want to be on pills my entire life). The entire operation cost me 0$ and I now don't have to pay for the *much cheaper then in America* medication. Wonder why so many Americans get their pills up here? Because the Canadian gov't regulates the prices far more closely than in the states, so the exact same perscription here can be much cheaper.
Some people do go to the US, and without getting into a debate on financial equality, it's generally the rich. Why? Because they can skip the ENTIRE wait time, even if it's just a few weeks. They're willing to shell out the extra bucks, and that's fine - it makes room for someone else. The fact is overall the healthcare system here provides equality and superior service nine times out of ten. There's always the fuckups but the benefits far outweigh there. -
Man, it has GOT to suck being that ignorant. I do love the "price of lettuce" argument that keeps coming up -- because y'know, that's all border-crossers do, pick lettuce. They're not nannies or house painters or movers or house/hotel cleaners or anything else...just lettuce-pickers.
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Who does all that work when, in your dream scenario, illegals get kicked out? How many businesses that had been using cheap/slave labor crash and burn when they have to pay legitimate wages? I'm afraid you have things completely backward -- end illegal labor practices, and immigration dries up. Keep illegal labor and they keep coming, whether existing workers get amnesty or not. Even the INS will tell you that.
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You said it better than I did.
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The Fraser Institute did a comparision of Canada's health care system with other "universal access" (i.e. socialistic) health care systems. It concluded:
"This study has attempted to provide answers to a series
of questions that are important to resolve if Canada is
to make the correct choices as it amends its health care
policies. The study is strictly comparative and examines
a wide number of factors for the countries that are member
nations of the OECD in arriving at the answers to
the questions posed. Taking this empirical approach to
health care provides clear direction for health care reform
in Canada.
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You should stop reading the Huffington Report and actually participate in the private sector to know how it works.
I guess uh, following the logic of your argument you are also against the minimum wage being increased. All of these businesses will "crash and burn" if they have to pay a decent wage.
Also, a lot of the immigrants are qualified to do more than these shit jobs. But they're not legal so they have to pick figs or prune bushes because they aren't eligible to be hired for something more rewarding. Let me guess, you assume that they aren't qualified to do anything else other than change shitty diapers? Liberals aren't racist. Not one bit. -
Obviously you must know better than people who actually use the system given your Google search of The Fraser Institute. I am terribly humbled by your cut and paste skills.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_Institute...The Fraser Institute is a libertarian think tank based in Canada. In terms of Canadian political terminology, it is fiscally conservative and socially liberal. It is also a registered charity with the Canada Revenue Agency. Its mandate is to advocate for competitive markets to better provide for the economic and social well-being of all Canadians. It is very critical of government spending, high taxes, government deficits, and generally any government action that cannot be supported by Libertarian principles. For example, it supports free trade, closer integration of the Canadian economy with the United States, privatization of government services, and does not support the prohibition of certain drugs, like marijuana. The Fraser Institute is also skeptical of the need for regulatory action against global warming since they support prioritization of environmental initiatives and view climate change regulations as having "the potential to impose high costs on Canadian citizens and drastically increase the regulatory state, while providing little or no environmental benefit."
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Jul 10, 2006 11:24:55 AM CDT
How much does it pay to be a shill poster for the GOP?
by lettersoftransit
...because it's obvious that this site is regularly monitored by right-wing shill posters who would never never go to this site to find out the latest info re Snakes on a Plane. They come here because this site got some PR and they deduced the fanboy community was a place where votes could be found. Take that into account when you read these things.
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i'm Canadian and you have no idea what you are talking about. "flocking" to the US?? "Jail"?? "Frivolous lawsuits"???!
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I'm Canadian too. But I think you've left half the story out of your post. There most certainly are waiting lists, and they're written about in the papers on a daily basis. I knew someone who waited 2 years for hip replacement surgery. It all depends on the city. It all depends on the time of year. The reason there is a doctor shortage is because many Canadian doctors choose to practice in the States. Canadian hospitals are often chronically underfunded, and emergency room waits can last hours or days. People have been turned away from ER rooms and have died. 38 people died of SARS in Canada but 0 in the States, because of poor hospital procedures. Why do Americans get their pills cheap in Canada? Because they are subsidized by Canadian tax payers. They take advantage of a program for Canadians. Ask yourself a better question. Why does Canada buy all of its medicine from the US? Because the Canadian medicine industry has ceased to exist. Gov't regulation and high liability has driven them out of business. Canada does little to no medical research and buys most of its drugs from the US, where the industry is allowed to make huge profits to offset the huge liabilities. If the US adopts a Canadian system, where will we get our drugs from, Brazil? The main problem with the Canadian healthcare system is that it is unsustainable on the long run. It simply costs too much money, and as baby boomers age, those costs will skyrocket. Canada is the only country in the world with a one-tier system that disallows private healthcare. This will change. Quebec has already adopted private clinics. As far as your operation costing you "$0", only if you don't pay taxes or health premiums. Taxes in Canada are MUCH higher than in the US, and so are health premiums. Only people on welfare don't pay them. There is a myth growing in the US about the magical Canadian healthcare system, fed by the left, but I'm afraid that a lot of it is bullshit. Canada should and will eventually adopt a two-tier system.
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What's wrong with an opposing viewpoint? 80% of the posters on this board and 100% of the AICN staff are liberal. Any contradiction to your liberal mantra and you wet your pants. No wonder you guys can't win elections.
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There's a difference between raising the minimum wage a buck or two (which hasn't been done in 9 years) and paying an illegal $50/day for 12 hours of work. And don't put words in my mouth and tell me what I assume, you fucking retard.
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you also have no idea what you are talking about...waiting lines form toronto to montreal?? 2 years for knees and hips??..my grandmother just got 2 new knees and that took a couple of months waiting tops. big deal..it was FUCKING FREE!
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Fat greedy piece a shit who thinks he's above everybody - http://www.moorewatch.com
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bmishoe - So you think it is wrong for your taxes to go toward helping others overcome illness??
Your taxes currently fund illigal wars, torture camps and lines the pockets of a government that thrives on creating mass hysteria!!!
Just read back on all your posts today and have a long hard think about what you are saying, you fool!
I don't know why I let it bother me so much....i'm from the UK and they actually look after both poor and rich people here. Can you imagine it??! -
That's still going on, faster than ever; ROGER AND ME did nothing to stop it. That, in part, is how you end up 46 million Americans with no health insurance. Oh wait -- they're all crackheads, right bmishoe? Serves them right for smoking so much crack. Here's a chart that shows Americans making $20k-$40k going from 28% uninsured in 2001 to 41% uninsured in 2005: http://www.cmwf.org/usr_img/biennial01.gif That's a lot of crack smoking! What a tragic waste of life. Google "changing face of the uninsured" to read the article that includes that chart. Rich Americans and Canadians should be allowed to go anywhere they want to pay top-notch doctors for premium quality health care; but like Canada, we've got the resources to provide a reasonable minimum level of care for everyone.
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sigh...
in case your wondering my background..my wife is a doctor, my father was vice president of various pharma cos. over his career (sandoz, novopharm, glaxo, beecham, apotex etc) so ive been around med talk for a long time. some of what you says is partly true but...
....."Why does Canada buy all of its medicine from the US? " uh...we don't....we make a bunch of it right here. "Canada does little to no medical research" so wrong. "People have been turned away from ER rooms and have died" and that never happens in the states?!!? "2 years for hip replacement surgery" well maybe it wasnt that necessary, my grandmother just got 2 new knees and waited a couple of months for them. my sister and mother in law had cancer and got excellent treatment. i personally have recived treatment from top surgeons. personally i dont mind my taxes going to better my society. you dont like it? you prefer the "everyman for himself" philosophy?...ok, move to the states. -
Republicans can't possibly be interested in shit like Snakes on a Plane, so they must be shills looking for votes? I can't believe that someone could seriously think that. So libs tell me, can you site some examples of people who have been turned away, bleeding, from the hospital in the ol' USA because they didn't have insurance?
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I now see why you favor the sytem. Your family is directly employed by it. Your wife can see someone for 10 minutes and bill the gov't $55 or whatever. The Canadian medicine industry is tiny and funded mostly by US pharmacological companies. But I understand why you love it.
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You gotta love them. They are so deluded by the conservative propaganda that they are actually making excuses for a government which, despite having the resources of the biggest GDP on the planet, oversees one of the worst health systems in the developed world and one of the highest levels of child poverty (but yet can still spend billions blowing the crap out of people on the other side of the world based on the lies of a President who is a laughing stock across the globe --- where were those WMDs, by the way???) Brilliant! Keep posting fellas, I haven't laughed so much in years!
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...is that it's unlikely for hard-right types who constantly rail against "liberal Hollywood" to be a regular at AICN. What's more likely is sites like FreeRepublic.com, who link to discussions like this one, and tell their members to "freep" online polls and discussion boards where they won't be immediately banned for being a right-wing tool.
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I think I have whiplash over your change of tone to cover your small-minded opinions. First, Fleshmachine has no idea what they are talking about and now you think they're too involved in the system to be able to voice an opinion. Guess you're right, better to be an ignorant slob like you to spew out opinions than someone who actually knows of what they speak. Good job! I think you've proven yourself for who you are.
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Your post doesn't actually say anything. Did you notice that? You're not even smart enough to make a point, let alone argue one. You've proven yourself to be dumb.
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Well, then, I guess I'm in good company as you have proven yourself the same.
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No, I actually made a coherent argument and defended it with facts and logic. You may not agree with it but you clearly don't have the knowledge and intelligence to refute it.
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This back and forth attack is what's wrong with this country today. You have Moore on one end, Ann Coulter on the other, stirring up the pot, getting people pissed, arguments ensue, and in the end we are left with: nothing.
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I must have been terribly blinded by your amazing arguements. Please state them again for the benefit of all here.
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If anyone ever needed any more proof that politics had been dumbed down to within an inch of its life so it now resembles nothing more than uninformed yelling, jingoism and meaningless buzzwords, they just need to read some of the posts by bigdickmcgee, bmishoe and kamala. And seriously.... "BIGDICKmcgee"... what kind of user ID is that? how old are you? 12 ???!!!
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You guys have nothing but insults. Which means you've already lost the argument. All you have is blind rage. That's why you'll never win.
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Love the liberal
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Thinksinplatitudes.
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yep... its all about winning, isn't it. When you grow up, leave school, get a job and maybe travel and see a bit of the world you'll realise it isn't all black and white, there are shades of grey on all issues. But if it makes you feel better and winning all that matters then, ok, i'm prepared to make a little kid's day. Yep... you win.
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I didn't insult, I was asking for you to repeat your arguments as to why you felt you had the right opinion. I'm still waiting...
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Look, I will engage anyone in an actual "debate", and I respect people of differing opinions who can cogently defend those opinions. But guys like you can't, and you go into apoplectic fits of rage whenever someone disagrees with you. I can get personal too, and call you an asshole, etc. But that doesn't really bring you up to my level. It diminishes me to yours.
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Do you know how to scroll up?
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If you can scroll back, I asked you to condense your arguements into one place. I'm still waiting.
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"I can get personal too, and call you an asshole, etc. But that doesn't really bring you up to my level. It diminishes me to yours." yeah, right.... mate, you were down to that level the moment you registered such a juvenile ID as "bigdickmcgee". Ha! BIG DICK!!! Hilarious!
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Nice try. But I think asking people to repeat themselves when you can take 3 seconds to scroll up doesn't really qualify as an argument.
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"Have any hospitals close in your area lately? That is because Jose, Maria, and Tomas are going to the ER to get flu shots, give birth and get their back adjusted, all on the backs of Americans tax dollars"...Dude, you are the poster boy for racism. Both of your posts are soaked in it. I saw plenty of non-Hispanics at those marches, don't know which ones you were watching. And "La Rasa" is as numerous as and represents Mexicans about as much as the KKK represents white people (well, other than Kamala). The La Rasa "story" was pumped-up by right-wing pundits and bloggers pissed off their election-year immigration stunt blew up in their faces. Viva la Michelle Malkin!
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Thanks for proving my point. By the way, my ID name is not a reference to dicks (although you would think that), but it comes from an old joke by a comedian. Also, you shouldn't drink and type.
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Bring on the racism, privileged myopia, spoon-fed corporate propaganda and soulless objectivism. These are really the only talking points to combat the completely unforgivable medical system this great and enlightened country has to offer to the citizens that fight its wars, pay in sweat for its economy and in taxes for its subsidized techno-industrial research.
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...just asking you to repeat your main points. If you don't remember, why not cut and paste? Or do you feel yourself too important to do that? Even in a true debate - which you claim to embrace -- the debater will summarize their points. so... I'm still waiting.
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You can keep waiting, or you can read my first post. Which do you think will take longer?
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Hey guys, is it trure that Michael Moore once fist-fucked Cindy Sheehan's greasy vagina using the recently dug-up forearm of her dead son? I was just wondering, cause that's what I heard... oh, and I also heard that he licked it sparkling clean only after she came with all the ferocity of tenaciously harry bull dyke.
Fact?... or Fiction?... -
Thanks for the good laugh!
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"...a government which, despite having the resources of the biggest GDP on the planet, oversees one of the worst health systems in the developed world..."
Great summation of the liberal viewpoint. Government OVERSEES healthcare? I can't think of a more terrifying prospect than having career politicians and government employees in charge of my health. How about they just return the tens of thousands of dollars they took from me so I can pay for my own healthcare? I'm gonna be a total tard and paraphrase Joss Whedon, but governments are there to get in a man's way. Overseers are for slave owners and socialists, not a free society. -
So... despite your lofty jargon, and a challenge for true debate, you've now proven your true self. Keep telling us how better you are and maybe someone will believe it besides yourself. I respectfully asked for the opportunity for debate -- in the form of an outline of your arguments -- and you keep ignoring it. I'm sure you'll have some form of snide response to this but, at the end of the day, I challenged you and you kept backing down. That's very sad. Perhaps you can reddem yourself, but until then, I'm still waiting.
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I'm gonna tell you this for the last time. Asking someone to repeat themselves is a cheap debating trick designed to change the subject. When they invariably refuse to repeat themselves (since there is no reason for it and it's a waste of time), the other guy can then claim that they are shirking the debate. It's a very very lame rhetorical trick, used by people who have no game when it comes to debate.
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Uh, you're paraphrasing one of Whedon's CHARACTERS, not him. By that line of logic, Kevin Spacey thinks whores should be punished by killing them with a sharp, pointy strap-on.
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Complaining that your opponent isn't debating properly in order to change the subject is the oldest trick in the book. That's for the audience to decide, not you.
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I'm not changing the subject, I'm asking you to repeat the issues which you said before, which you had previously seemed so passionate about. As I noted before, in real debate,the person who makes the point summarizes their talking points. So what is the lame trick? Me, properly asking you to repeat your issues or you, blindly refusing to repeat them. I am willing to debate, you are the one who seems to be unable to bring this debate to the table. Why are you so adverse to stepping forward with your concerns again? Perhaps -- as you say -- you are the one with 'no game'. I'm still waiting.
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Jul 10, 2006 1:10:34 PM CDT
If you know Kevin Spacey, you'd know he hates hookers..
by darthsnoogans
Joss Whedon created the character and wrote the line. Guess I assumed he actually feels that way.
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that only a small fraction of the oft-sited 45 million US citizens who have no insurance are too poor to purchase. The majority of that number are people like Quint who are young and could afford it but CHOOSE not to, or people who were inbetween jobs at some point during the year (one day without and you get counted in that annual statistic). The few who cannot afford it, guess what? WE ALREADY HAVE PROGRAMS SET UP TO PAY FOR THEM!!! That is why this debate is so ridiculous.
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When I start going around with signs like this, then you can talk about who is a racist. What makes this really funny is that about 40% of the people living in ME-HICO now are decedents of the Spanish who came over to rape and plunder. Not the evil "white man". After all, why do they all speak Spanish? That is not "indigenous" to the continent now, is it? http://images5.theimagehosting.com/bp2_0003.jpg
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Sorry, what were you saying?
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http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b35/VoteMJ/BaldwinParkII061.jpg
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Replace the word "whore" with a ball-sucking-whore like Michael Moore", and now you're on to somethin'!
Apox upon that Ball-Sucker's syphilis laden, pockmarked ass!!! -
You have yet to contribute anything to the debate you so wanted. I'm still waiting.
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Kubrick theatrical marathon??? GODFUCKINGDAMMIT i wish i could come. Alex and Joker are even gonna be there. Fuck!
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Is that Moore starts with how the U.S. healthcare "system" sucks, but ends up with how Americans generally don't pay any attention to their health either.
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I must have missed the gist of your argument. Could I get a summary?
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If Whedon believed every line of dialogue he wrote in Firefly and Serenity, that means he'd have to believe as the Alliance AND the Browncoats do, wouldn't he? If Whedon (or any other writer worth his/her salt) wrote themselves as every character, they wouldn't be able to write a story, much less sell one.
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That one of the recurring themes in Firefly/Serenity is the issue of overreaching, meddlesome governments acting in the interest of "protecting people" vs. free people who want to be left alone to live life the way they see fit (in other words, liberalism vs. conservatism). I think it's a pretty safe assumption...kinda hard to fake that kind of thing if you don't believe it.
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Rather than asking you to look backward, as you suggested with me; I was asking for you to summarize your arguements into one concise response. And... I'm still waiting.
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All you people make me and my Libertarian blood cry.
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What are you still waiting for?
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... is amazing to behold. They spring into action and hit all the talking points with carpet-bombing efficiency. Freakin' impressive.
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I was waiting for a reasonable response based on my earlier and respectful posts, but you don't seem grown up enough to respond properly so I guess you've shown your true measure. Too bad, I was treating you as an equal, but you seem to want a kindergarten spittng match. And here, I'm still waiting.
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Can you summarize my argument? Then I'll respond.
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Like this one: "I think I have whiplash over your change of tone to cover your small-minded opinions. First, Fleshmachine has no idea what they are talking about and now you think they're too involved in the system to be able to voice an opinion. Guess you're right, better to be an ignorant slob like you to spew out opinions than someone who actually knows of what they speak. Good job! I think you've proven yourself for who you are."
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I scrolled up trying to find your original post, but after 50 fucking posts like this I gave up. Either summarize or ignore Own, please!
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Caution: facts! No heart! http://getsickgobroke.com/study.php -- What programs, mclennon? Medicaid, or other underfunded, overwhelmed government and charity programs almost no one can qualify for? Please! Emergency care: yes, US Federal law requires hospitals to provide life-saving care to everyone who shows up in an emergency room, before asking whether or how they can pay; but that doesn't stop them from billing you & sending collection agencies after you later if you turn out not to have thousands of dollars on hand to pay the bill. Did you know that middle-class families with no insurance or inadequate insurance who're unable to pay medical bills account for about half of all personal bankruptcies? Thanks to Republican efforts to reform bankruptcy law, now it's more difficult to erase unpayable medical debt: you're now more likely to be forced into Chapter 13, which requires you to become sort of and indentured servant to the doctors who generously saved your life. You owe a literal "blood debt", more a debt of shame than a debt of honor, payable in dollars. Is this the situation you were defending when you asked for examples of bleeding patients turned away from emergency rooms, so-called mclennon? Love is all you need, indeed!
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Thats freakin' hilarious to behold. Anyway, I'm going back to work now, because I (being a proud Republican) actually have a job (unlike most liberals)... Unless you count blow jobs... all libs are REALLY good at giving those.
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Go home and have some fucking mexicans cut my grass. Does anyone know how to say, "Your work is shit! Bring me your daughter! & Get the fuck back to work!" in spanish? I'd be forever grateful...
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Guess I'll let you have the last word as I have no more time to deal with you. Everyone reading these posts will see you for who you are and see that you continue to ignore my requests for debate despite you claiming that you wanted it. Too bad as there are many people on both sides of the issue who have much to say and yet people like you continue to diminish those who actually want to contribute. I was looking forward to an exchange of opinions, but you don't seem to be on the same wavelength. My thanks to anyone who disagreed with my points and responded in a thoughtful manner.
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I'll do it just for you. The main two problems with Canada's one-tier healthcare system is that it is often disfunctional (very inefficient and rife with fraud) and ultimately unsustainable as the baby boomers age and health costs skyrocket. Both taxes and health premiums will have to go up (and both are already high) to pay for this "free" system. Canada is the only industrialized country on earth with such a system (with the possible exception of North Korea). Every other country, including all of Europe, has a two-tier system. Cuba and China have two-tier systems for fuck's sake. Although there is huge ideological opposition from the left, Canada will eventually have a two-tier system as well. And now, gentlemen, I have to earn a living to pay those taxes and health premiums.
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As a Brit I never ceased to be shocked the american health care system but this "Debate" is making great reading. And yeah Traumnovelle the marathon sounds brilliant.
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You're racist and stupid. Anything you say is a "talking point" so I won't respond to it. I don't have a logical rebuttal so I will call you racist and stupid again. It makes me feel superior when I call people racist and stupid. Ecspecially when I have no idea what I am talking about. I learned it from Howard Dean.
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..."give me all my money back and let me take care of myself" stuff that seems to be so popular among the righties these days is it presumes one can continue to exist as an American in a vacuum, being a member (by name only) of a society without contributing anything (except these ocassionally sparkling drops of cyber wisdom) to that society. Your governments, state and federal, provide for and regulate basic services and protections using your tax dollars. That's the arrangement. And, because we live in a representative rather than a direct democaracy, there is a better-than-even chance that at least some portion of your tax dollars are going to go toward a cause that you don't know/care about or even object to. Your taxes support public schools even if you have no children. Why? Is that fair? How's it benefitting you? Well, if you take a slightly wider view of the society you're leeching off (by being an employee or owner of any company or independent contractor that provides services designed to support the society) you'll understand that it's better for everyone if the next generation can read and write. Someone else pointed out the War in Iraq as another spectacular example of tax dollars being funneled toward a cause that about 50% of Americans would rather we weren't involved in. Unfortunately, we can't just withold tax dollars because we don't believe in blood for oil or lucrative no-bid infrastructure contracts, because all of that falls under the price we pay to have our freedoms defended. What reptillian part of a person's brain can't comprehend the benefit of all Americans being healthy? Do you think that if you allow the underpriveledged in impoverished areas to fester with disease that those diseases will remain contained within those communities? Do you think that the illegal immigrant who stocks the shelves at your Wal-Mart isn't going to bring some mutated superbug to work from the apartment he shares with three other families, none of whom can afford the proper care to cure a simple virus? Do you think that mutated superbug won't hop from the plastic on your industrial sized package of perfumed, lotion-softened toilet paper right up your tight little ass and roto-root your intestinal tract just because you can afford treatment (even with a good plan, you'll likely have couple days of extreme discomfort before your doc can see you)? You'd prefer not to cover health care for alcoholics or drug users because you think they're somehow less contagious? Open your eyes, folks. It's a closed system that we all share (and if you open them wide enough, you'll realize that doesn't just apply on a national scale but a global one). And while those eyes are open, read some of the documents that our founding fathers built this nation upon. The Declaration of Independence, for example: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." That last bit is especially important in this debate. Life. Although health care isn't spelled out, it stands to reason that quality of life is implied in the definition, particularly when grouped with Happiness as it very deliberatly is. But there's more in the Constitution: "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare..." Now they aren't talking about monthly checks here, obviously, but even then they knew that the government, as elected and enabled by the people, should be responsible for promoting and protecting the welfare (i.e. health and safety) of all its citizens. Note that they didn't single out snuff users or even absinthe drinkers as somehow excluded from that equation. And here's my favorite, going back to the Declaration: "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
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I'm glad you find this so entertaining. Perhaps we can be more civilized and follow how things are done in your Parliment. Now there is a bunch of pleasant chaps!
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Well, he does have a great body.
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I thought it was funny in "Bowling for Columbine" when Moore tried to act like Canada had close to the number of minorities the US has...and his proof was that he "saw a lot of minorities in Toronto." Politics aside, that's just insulting to the viewer to glaze over a fact like that.
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McGee's Points
1) People who work for nationalised Health services prefer it to working in the private sector for financial reasons. Their families support them in this. They also work in the US in preference to Canada.
2)"You're not even smart enough to make a point, let alone argue one. You've proven yourself to be dumb"
3) "You guys have nothing but insults. Which means you've already lost the argument."
4) Reiterating points of argument is invalid, to wit:
a) Waiting lists in Canada are variable. Some are long.
b) There is on-the ground mismanagement/institutional inflexibility in certain centres which costs lives.
c) Pharmaceutical companies prefer to operate in countries where they can make large profits and this is broadly a good thing.
d) The Canadian model of universal health access is expensive and will become moreso as populations age.
Fair enough?
4)a) What is an acceptable length of waiting for treatment? At one extreme you have the idea that no delay is acceptable, and an appropriate premium can be paid to prevent this, at the other, the idea that, with a limited budget, impact quality of life must be a primary determinant in working out who goes first.
4)b) How does this compare in Canada to other countries in general (not just in the SARS example, which presumably has a number of other factors involved with regards to outbreak pattern and time spent prior to seeking medical advice)?
4)c) What regulation ought to be applied to the pricing of pharmaceuticals? It is not in any way a free market scenario - often a drug is supplied in monopoly by one company, and the decision-making process is often not primarily cost-driven, given that neither patient nor doctor personally pay on an item-by-item basis (in Canadian model, local or institutional budgets will be enforced, in pure private model, payment is via insurer. In both models, the end user pays into a larger pot, which they can then draw against).
4)d) Presumably this will also affect private healthcare, the main advantage being that it will not be a large global rise, but will be primarily focused on those who are incurring the additional resource usage.
I think a lot of people in the Canadian-style system find the idea of healthcare free at point of use comforting, and they prefer to have decisions about which insurer, which hospital, which treatment to be reduced, given that they would struggle to make a truly informed decision. Such systems are definitely often riddled with inefficiencies and waste.
Intuitively, however, it is hard not to believe that you pay well over the odds for the top end of the private scenario where, there is ample capacity to treat immediately and on demand, get a wide and comprehensive set of testing and medications, even where clinical benefits are marginal/non-existent. There are a number of companies throughout the chain of supply: insurers, pharmaceutical companies, medical institutions which make very substantial profits. That, coupled with the images you see on makeover shows of poor, swollen, oozing saps being bundled straight from recovery room to their car because in-hospital recuperation is too expensive, underlines the main concerns about private healthcare - people, if they can, will pay anything for the good of their health; businesses have no qualms about profiting from that -
Excellent sumation. The one element I would add as a person who has ties to many working in healthcare is that we must care for those who have no insurance, not for humanitarian reasons or niceness, but because these sick fuckers will start to bring back TB and other diseases we had controlled in this country. Out here in Cali we are seeing this shit crop up because too many people aren't getting regular healthcare and then they spread it to hard working people with insurance through their kids mingling. Childe sums it up better than me, I would just add, Conservatives and Liberals, look at who benefits from policy, not whether you agree with it or not. Most politics on both sides of the asile are funded by rich interests to serve themselves. We need a populus movement that blends ideologies and serves the majority of people.
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Us Libertarians don't have a short word like that to decribe ourselves. No easy cardinal direction you can just assign. I hat Moore because he uses misdirection and misleading information as well as strawman tactics in so many of his "documentaries". If he called it what it is, propaganda, I wouldn't mind. A good documentary by a lefty would be that John Kerry one they made a couple of years ago that chronicled his journey in Vietnam and when he returned home, it was very fair and presented information in a straightforward manner. You got the general impression that he was a good guy during the war and after, but the movie didn't seem like it was trying to force it down your throats. And I don't even like John Kerry, but it was a good, fair look at him. Moore only sees oneside of any argument, and only presents his. Of course I'm going to dislike him, because his three of his major documentaries have been about the 'evils' of corporations relocating, why guns should be even more limited, and this upcoming why we need more government healthcare to take care of us. All issues I staunchly disagree on. I actually agree with Moore on the war in Iraq, but found his documentary on it to be horribly flawed and full of bad arguments, made more to stir up a nest than to put forth valid points. P.S. Ann Coulter's adam's apple isn't mysterious. She's a man. P.P.S. Most "righties" I know hate Coulter just as much as the lefties. P.P.P.S. Democracy is the most evil and corrupt form of government there is. It's mob rule. This is why I fight for the Republic of the United States.
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a nugget of sense in the sea of crazy that is this TB. I've seen it from both sides as someone who lived and worked in the UK (paying taxes) and now lives tax-free. No one wants to pay tax but these are the same people who will complain like hell if the roads, education, sanitation, public parks etc aren't up to scratch. I say complain because they won't reach into their own pocket, or (God forbid) volunteer their time for public servic.
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Our parliament may not be perfect but hey what democracy is but we do usually end up with the man in charge being the man we voted for.
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People like us believe taxes should be severely limited. We believe education should be completely private and out of the government's hands. We see no need for public parks and would prefer privately owned ones, and we believe roads and sanitation should be paid for not in taxes, but in usage fees, which would include things such as toll roads.
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It's tough achieving universal health care at a reasonable cost when you live next to the largest capitalist nation on earth. We have to compete on a lot of prices and it's tough. If the US were to go down the compassionate, progressive route of universal health care, BOTH our countries would be better off.
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Touchy..Touchy. I know your parliament isn't perfect but I don't go on British websites and act like some kind of enlightened observer mocking the plebians. We have C-Span and BBC world here. We're watching you blokes!
And the guy you elected seems to to walking in lock-step with the guy who got over 61,000,000 votes on this side of the pond.
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Please don't think that by annoiting yourself a libertarian, you're "in the middle", or above the fray. #1, you guys are so wise, you have never fielded a major candidate, anywhere, ever. #2, you're not "in the middle", you're WAY to the right of most people, even the big-spending Republicans who claim they hate big government. #3, your "leave me alone" positions on social issues and taxes are good in some respects, hilariously short-sighted and selfish in others. Excuse me now, I have to stop using the publically-owned airwaves and satellites these messges are travelling on and take a trip on my publicly-funded roads. My car is also safety-regulated enough so that it won't catch on fire, and even if it did, I'd be able to call police and fire to help me out. You get NONE of that. Buh-bye.
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And we're also WAY to the left of most people on issues like drug legalization, gay marriage, gambling, prostitution, and foreign policy.
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All of these alternative parties act so superior as they sit on the sidelines. They can spout off anything they want because they know none of it will ever be applied. If the Libertarians or Green Party or one of these other alternatives were ever actually elected to something they would have to change their tune real quick. When the rubber hits the road these alternative parties are worthless.
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My understanding (such as it is) is that liberatarians believe is self sufficientcy. No government intrusion into any aspect of private life. The only problem I've had with this concept is that the have-nots in that situation tend to rebel and/or fester with disease. As a society we either come together or die together.
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There, I said it. Everyone else was thinking it.
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So while you're not to the left of ME on those issues, you're "out of the mainstream", as the Republican catchphrase says. What you DO imply (as most Libertarians do) is that by being complete and utter failures at the ballot box, you're somehow superior and above the fray. If there's one thing I hate more than Republicans, it's people who say "both parties suck" or "all politicians suck". The credit goes to the man, as Teddy Roosevelt said, who is actually in the arena.
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Now where were we?... Oh yes, we were all commenting on how many inches of horse-cock Michael Moore could chug while being ass-fucked by Hilary 'Grunt-Cunt' Clinton... discuss....
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My favorite President's a Republican - Dwight D. Eisenhower. Yes, I like Ike. Of course, if he were running today, he'd be considered a liberal on most economic issues and his military record would get distorted by his Republican colleagues. Soft on defense, I'm sure they'd say.
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He shot a sequence there and it was embarrasing in how flagrantly it sucked on Canada's ass, with comments literally saying Canadians were just plain better than US, and that "maybe we should be more like Canada." Does anyone know if Canada paid him kickbacks to shoot there and to insert the pro-Canada remarks? Did he agree to refuse to bring any American crew? Where do the right-wingers stand on the "Canadian content" issue? They pay money to US producers and make the producers promise not to hire Americans. They've sent thousands of Canadians to live here in the US, where they can apply for and get hired for jobs on American films -- jobs that are OFF-LIMITS TO AMERICANS! Violate a shitload of laws and is about as un-American as you can get. Hell, it should be in the dictionary under un-American. What say the right-wing about it????
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"...but come on, Quint, you're no spring chicken--buy health insurance. To just cover yourself is probably only around $100 a month"
Uhhh. No. It costs a hell of a lot more than that. $250 or more. Most likely more if your not a kid. I'm dealing with it and you are flat out wrong. If you do want to get health insurance and you are already sick, it is useless for at least 6 months. Maybe more.
Health Care sucks. Period. If someone doesn't think so, they have never been on the wrong side of it and is just running their mouth to hear them selves talk. -
Jul 10, 2006 3:34:45 PM CDT
I failed to see where I claimed to be superior or above
by engineer_at_peac
the fray. I just said I wasn't as simply defined as "leftie" or "righty". And you know what, from my point of view, Republicans and Democrats DO suck. That's why I spend a lot of my free time campaigning and fighting for Libertarian causes. Just because my party isn't in office doesn't mean we can't make a difference, however small, it's important to me. I guess in a way that makes it my opinion that my politics are in fact superior, but I know and recognize it is my opinion, and not necessarily fact. How is that any different than a Republican or a Democrat that thinks their party is superior? The only difference is my party is smaller and less accepted.
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Generally, depending on your area, a pretty good insurance coverage will be about $300-$350 a month. Now my employer co-opts around half of my cost, but if they didn't I would definitely buy some anyway, because it is worth it. Waiting until you get sick before thinking about insurance is a fool's gambit, and I really have no pity for someone in such a condition, unless they couldn't afford to get insurance, and in that case I definitely have pity for them, and would be more than willing to help them out through donations to organizations that help these kinds of people out.
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In any political discussion someone always pontificates about "extremists" and "left vs. right" or "Republicans and Democrats". You guys always have this smug tone because nobody can ever truly rebut you since you have no record of success or failures. For the record, I think alternative parties are important and they can eventually have an influence on the political landscape. I respect you more that the people who bitch about a candidate and then go ahead and vote for him anyway.
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But my problem isn't with the funding of constitutional programs, my problem is with a federal government that has far overstepped the powers specifically assigned to it in the Constitution. Nowhere in that document does it state that the federal government has a right to administer a national healthcare or welfare program...yet we have Medicare and Social Security, two deeply flawed, financially unstable programs. And I don't buy this "living in a vaccuum" bull. Government is within its rights to tax me to pay for the services they are constitutionally obligated to provide. Unfortunately they have been blatantly overstepping their bounds and taking half our paychecks in the process. I certainly don't live in a vaccuum, but I also am tired of footing the bill for a government that tries to do too much and wastes an ungodly amount of taxpayer money.
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I believe Libertarian, Green, and other smaller parties add a lot to the political debate. Dems and Repubs have large schizms within their own parties over many issues this is why the American Experiment has worked for so long. What worries me is so much concentration of control of media power into so few hands. Compares ownership of 40 years ago to today's and you'll see most media presented to the public is overseen by corporate interests. This is not left or right this is where money becomes the primary motivation. Even that viewpoint has merit for those it serves, but it is funny that a large group of US citizens support concentrating wealth into less and less hands. Their info on this comes from the people who will benefit from it and that would seem suspect to me.
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Honest.
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I must say anyone who believes that there is no healthcare problem does not pay for their health insurance, either their job does it 100% (which I was lucky enough to have for ten years at my last job) or lives with out it and does not go to the doctor. Covering yourself monthly is expensive!!! You also have not dealt with multible billing, duplicate bills, one bill from the doctor one bill from the insurence company, deductables, co payments aaarrrgggh! It's more confusing then the tax code. Please don't peddel your wares here. We pay ENOUGH ROAD TOLLS and they aint helping. Michael moore shining some light on the subject could only help expose some of the corruption and that's a good thing!.
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Whoops! Don't want to offend anyone. I mean -- About those 'undocumented residents', could we please extend the same absense of logic to traffic violations? Vroom!
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I never get sick and never see the doctor. I pay health insurance anyway(my company pays %50, but if they didn't I would just spend less money per month, yes I know this is not an option for some). So I don't really have to deal with a lot of the shit like deductables, co-payments, billing, because I don't actually see the doctor. So I am probably underqualified to talk too much about it. One thing I hope Moore does talk about is some of the ridiculous things insurance agencies cover and why. For instance, I am insured for acupuncture and many alternative medicines I will never use. I am insured for drug and alcohol rehab, which I will never need, among other things. If I could negotiate a new policy where I was not covered for those, my rates would be cheaper. But in my state the insurance companies are required to cover all of those by law. It doesn't make much sense to me. For someone else where these things are a risk, where they want a certain alternative treatment, fine, let them negotiate such a contract, but why am I forced to also pay for things I will never use? I hope he also does cover tort reform which is a major problem. Also I hope he covers the medical associations and how they are purposefully driving up requirements to become a doctor in order to create a limited supply.
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Illegal aliens. I say open the floodgates, give anyone who wants one a greencard. At the same time, protect the damn border and make sure that no one gets across unnoticed. For those already here, if they are breaking a law that actually harms someone, deport em. Otherwise, fuck it, they aren't bothering anyone.
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Don't bicker and fight... there's no reson we can't all just be friends here! Now, let's all join hands and sing "The Michael Moore Is A Sniveling Bloated Cunt Song"!!
I'll go fist, I mean first...........
"Who's the fattest fuck of them all?.... Michael Moore!..... Who likes to eat babies raw?.... Michael Moore!..."
C'mon everybody, sing along now- you know the words! -
People always pull out the "ya gotta wait 2 years" to get anything done, and while that might be true in extreme cases, the bottom line is that for ordinary health care (routine sickness, pregnancy, mental health) their system is excellent. My baby was born in Canada, and the total bill was ZERO dollars. In comparison, I had to take my child into emergency once in Los Angeles for a high fever, and the bill came to close to a thousand dollars.
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I have to say it has its faults but only because of severe underfunding in the last 20 years under liber-tory govs. We spent 12% of gpd in the 1940's on health and now about 10.5% Think on that for a second as to how radically more advanced medical care is now vs back then. US spends 15% of its gpd on health. We have a great system and it siumply needs more doctors right now and modest increase in funding. I cant understand why the US with medicare already covering 85% of medical needs cant expand it to cover the other 15% of health consumed by people under age 65. And even then only those who arent getting coverage! Assuming the US keeps a 2 tier system its likely the increased costs to medicare as a whole would be a lot less than 15%. Adding 2 tier up here which actually already exists in terms of what isnt covered by medicare but assuming its expanded to any health need would simply raise costs per procedure and reduce tax revenue as it would become a tax deduction for the rich. What small reductions in waiting lists there would be would be underdone by even more underfunding of the public system. Britain has a 2 tier system and its wait lists are 2-3x longer than Canada's.
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...is that Libertarians promote themselves as self-sufficient, but they're pretty much just selfish. It's a Pollyanna-ish notion that we all enter this world with the same opportunities and that our strength as a country is not in our communities, but our individualism.
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I am not of the ill conceived notion that all enter the world with the same opportunities, however. I just believe people with fewer opportunites would get by better in the long run with less government interference instead of more.
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And make a REAL DOCUMENTARY about the REAL FACTS of 9/11 The Mainstream Media continue to ignore? Maybe then, we could expose the lies that have caused war after war and curtailing of civil rights. Moore wanted to try and make it look like Saudi Arabia was in on 9/11? Naw...try PAKISTANI ISI.
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One of the most aggrevating things about talking politics is that people on the far sides of the right AND left are usually not very easy to reason with...for whatever reason. I would think I'm right in the middle on a lot of things, maybe standing a little to the right..I guess wich makes things harder sometimes. The truth is there is good and evil on both sides. I happen to think Michael Moore is a clown on that note. I think he has a point to prove and he edits his movies to fit that point...not the other way around...as a documentary should be. Though..some of his points may be valid...he shouldn't have to twist the truth to fit them...if in fact they are valid.
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But from my point of view the Jedi are evil.
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hehe....I guess I never watched the star wars movies that way...I'm sure someone has it all worked out...lol
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I LOVE to call and order a delivery from some minority restaurant close by (we have an inexhaustible supply), wait 'till the delivery person (usually always of middle age, and never of clear English)... pay for the food, and then quckly write "Fuck you, immigrant!!" on the line where the tip goes... sometimes, when I've been drinking, I even draw a little "cock and balls" next to the text.
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...when I've been drinking, I even draw a little "cock and balls" next to the text. Try it everybody, it feels great!!!
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People who have lived here all of their lives can't speak English very well...and being a minority must mean their here illegally...ugg
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I own you, your totally fucking right... these dumb talkebackers don't know shit. They just dont want Moore to talk better of Canada's Health Care system for fear of looking INFERIOR to their sister country. GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK. Canada's health care system isn't any crappier or any better than America's health care system. I know I've never had to pay shit for my health though in Canada,... relatives getting quite a few MRI's where they waited no longer than 3 to 4 weeks. Other relatives cancer treatments getting taken care of expertly without spending a dime. Can't say the same for the U.S. Whereas I doubt any of you talkbackers in America can say you've never spend a dime on healthcare, I CAN SAY I'VE SPENT ZILCH... unless you count taxes. OH YA THE FRASIER INSTITUTE HAS PRIVATE INTERESTS AT STAKE SO STFU ABOUT THAT SHIT... FUCK YOU DUMB AMERICANS... im glad you people are relegated to this talkback too... YOU PAY ZERO IN CANADA... YOU PAY UP YOUR ASS IN THE U.S. YOU GET CHEAP PRESCRIPTION DRUGS HERE... THE WAIT TIMES ARE NOTHING LIKE YOU DUMB AMERICANS THINK THEY ARE. SO GO ROT IN A HOLE YOU @$#ING STUPID AMERICANS!! I HATE YOU... GO BOMB ANOTHER COUNTRY... GO RAPE ANOTHER IRAQI WOMAN! STUPID AMERICANS AND YOUR EGOS
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...is that Darth Pookie is a pretty pathetic excuse for a human being. I mean, most trolls usually get bored and leave after long enough, but not him.
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Get all their political knowledge from Michael Moore and The Daily Show. The joke is never on liberals, is it?
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You're not paying zilch. You are paying for yours and everyone elses healthcare. You pay for a chainsmokers lung cancer. You pay for the surgery of a base jumper who couldn't jump quite far enough. You pay for the medical expenses of a guy who wrecked himself in a DUI. To me this seems unfair.
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but he makes us feel better about ourselves...also...Canada is cool cuase they have Ketchup Potato Chips...I love those things...they def. have that on us...*sigh*...
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Get all their political knowledge from Rush Limbaugh and Fox News. The joke is always on conservatives, isn't it?
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Thats right, free health care! Just simply pay more taxes, pay about 3 additional dollars per gallon of gas, and pay .35 to .50 cents more for beer/soda/cigs. Don't believe me...talk to Canadians and most Europeans. Just so you know, I am a Senior Manager with a major health insurance company. I know what I am talking about.
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I prefer to be known as "savy and full of perseverance", thank you... you ditzy cocksmith. Oh and here's another thing we can all agree on, homeless people and mexicans make great human-bottle-rockets on July 4th", trust me buddy... I'm from Texas.
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Last time anyone did that..well...anyways...you get the picture...
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...a major health insurance company, I know what I am talking about!" Right, you wouldn't have an axe to grind there. Not much at all. You wouldn't start pulling statistics out of your ass in a simplistic scare tactic, woudja? Naahhhh...but here a stat for ya: health insurance companies spend 15 cents on administrative costs, Medicare spends 4 cents per dollar. http://www.alternet.org/story/36341/
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Sorry, man, don't get "me" mixed up with "masturbation", because we all know that's what you meant. And by the way, Canada sucks balls... know why............. ...because they have fucking canadians!!!!! You dolt.
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And trust me, I'll stick this cock in your moooth and paint a masterpiece! Punta.
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Canada doesn't have Texans...or at least one that I can name...so that's a one up for them. ahh yes..I did mean masturbation...thanks for clearing that up...
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...as in, you've got blood in your shit from ass-raping yourself with a monster dildo? Ooh, look what I did there - I'm so snarky and savvy and full of perserverance! I can use naughty words, too! LOOK AT ME! Dear God, why doesn't anyone love me..? I NEED ATTENTION!
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As a physician, I can tell you that the majority of uninsured people in this country who utilize the emergency rooms (inner city and urban where I have worked) fall into one of the following groups.
1.) I have a job, a cell phone, designer clothes, and possibly smoka pack of cigarretes a day, but can't be bothered to pay for my health care (but I can still sue you if things don;t turn out well...)
2.) I am a drunk, drug addict, or have some sort of personality disorder that makes me unable to hold down a job or function as a reasonable member of society - but I can still afford my drugs, alcohol and 2-pack a day cigarrete habit.
3.) I am an illegal immigrant and can't afford insurance - but I work hard and will do my best to pay my bill (Most immigrant workers will pay their bill - slowly, but they have some sense of honor)
4.) I am a high-school dropout with a few kids and can't afford insurance (but again - I have a cel phone and smoke 2 packs a day)
Our Health Care system is not broken - the people of America are broken and can't get their priorities straight. Doctors, Nurses, Orderlies, Housekeeping - these people all work hard for a living and deserve to get paid. Health Care is not a RIGHT..it is a PRIVILEGE, and if you can pick up a phone and dial 911 in America - you WILL be taken care of. In many other developed countries - that is not the case. -
After all, you post on AICN- and if that doesn't prove you are a sad, pathetic, lonely fanboy who's named his right hand Angelina, his cock Brad, and loves having 3 ways with "Mr & Mrs Smith"... I don't know what the hell does.
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I know Canadians. I know all about their "great universal health care system." Moore will be incapable of not putting it into his film as an example of great social medicine. He will do this because he is a moron who doesn't care about the truth.
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Dogging one for posting on a talkback by posting on a talkback must be what Texans do...oh...and you shoulda just gone with "well the jerk-store called..." because it woulda been more clever...
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While Kamela's description of the reason why hospitals have closed down is rather offensive, you're missing his core arguement, which is that hospitals in some states are being overwhelmed by illegals. Indeed, according to NPR LA has had I believe 84 hospitals close down because illegals couldn't pay their ER bills. Before you call me a racist right-winger, I'm actually a liberal myself. Sometimes the facts have to be faced, illegal aliens do cause numerous problems in the US.
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How about we get rid of all "public" health programs, get rid of government "restrictions" and have faith that the same system that has brought us the miracle of the $399 PC (almost inconceivable complicated & impossible for an individual to produce from scratch), that same system will bring easily obtainable health care.
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That argument would hold so much more water if you'd sourced it. Don't just tell me you heard some numbers on NPR, find the link.
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Just that those 3rd world war torn countries haven't learnt that yet. LIVING SHOULD BE A RIGHT!!! FUCK YEAH! WHY NOT? I get raped by the government, i live under a shitty system..... SO LIFE IS A RIGHT BIOTCH!! SUCK ON THAT... to say that living is a priviledge is to say, "I DONT GIVE A SHIT IF SOMEONE KICKS A BABY IN THE HEAD... let the baby die, that baby should have dodged that kick in the head,... so what if it bleeds to death... not my business, who gives a crap, that baby should have taken better care of it's life..." SO DONT GIVE ME THAT BS IT'S A PRIVILEDGE CRAP... and dont GIVE ME THAT BS PICK AND CHOOSE WHO LIVES AND DIES CRAP... we're all in this together... we're all monkies in suits
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Living & health care are not the same thing. Living is something you can do independent of anyone else. Health care requires exchange with other individuals. It is an industry that provides goods & services. You only have the right to freely exchange with those who provide the health care.
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http://www.negativepositive.org/fuck-canada.html
Donde esta, go the fuck home. -
Where the fuck's that little asian girl I bought the other day?! "Yoo hoo... Poon Tang... come to daddy...." "Don't make Mr. Big-American-Penis get the coat hanger, bitch!"
"Good girl.............." -
...for health care comes out to much less than the 300 to 500 bucks a month you pay here.
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while I appreciate wolack22's passion, I never said 'fuck you all' and I winced a bit reading their talkback. In fact, and in repsonse again to those who hate the Canadian system, I never claimed we were perfect -- far from it. America is in a position now to look at many countries n order to draft a better health care system. Yes, it might be unpopular given that drug companies and lawyers will attack the idea, but I think the heart of the issue is: how can the richest nation in the world ignore the basic human needs of its people? Yes, here in Canada, someone who base jumps or who is a life-long alcoholic gets the same treatment as a kid with a broken leg. Yes, we get taxed for it (did I mention that Ciggies and Beer cost more here?) but when you get down to it, living in a social world means that everyone should get the same treatment; this isn't a country of us VS. them, it's a country of treating everyone equally, no matter how much they abuse themselves. I would hate to go to a hospital and have someone claim I drink too much coffee so deserve my health woes. The U.S. stands at the brink of great social change -- don't copy the mistakes of other countries, learn from them and become greater.
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We don't have to pay, beause we don't have to have healthcare if we don't want or feel we need it, and there are non-insurance alternatives. Mainly it's the freedom of choice I stand for.
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Judging by your dick fixation, I'd say you're a massive closet case.
Just haved a beer, watch Billy Squier's "Rock Me Tonight" video, and then announce your fabulous gayness to the world. We'll be supportive! Honest! -
MICHAEL MOORE IS AN AL QAEDA OPERATIVE!
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...the idea of health insurance, the problem is when the insurance companies fail to cough up the money to pay for your doctor/hospital bills. I've had 2 major surgeries and on both occasions the company wouldn't pay by using loopholes in the agreement. The system is fine, it's the people in charge of the system who are screwing up. Change the cheating corporate suits, not the system!
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FUCK YEAH! LICK ON MY DICK AND SUCKS ON MY BALLS AMERICANS!...
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A source would useful of course. However, since I heard it on NPR I'm not sure how I can source NPR - I'm not very web saavy. Anyways, I do have another source for it that also examines the impact of legal immigration on Canada's health care system. http://tinyurl.com/qqnfv----- I'll quote from it, "In fact, the increasing number of illegal aliens coming into the United
States is forcing the closure of hospitals, spreading previously
vanquished diseases and threatening to destroy America's prized health-care system, says a report in the spring issue of the Journal of American Physicians
and Surgeons.
"The influx of illegal aliens has serious hidden medical consequences,"
writes Madeleine Pelner Cosman, author of the report. "We judge reality
primarily by what we see. But what we do not see can be more dangerous,
more expensive, and more deadly than what is seen."
According to her study, 84 California hospitals are closing their doors
as a direct result of the rising number of illegal aliens and their
non-reimbursed tax on the system.
"Anchor babies," the author writes, "born to illegal aliens instantly
qualify as citizens for welfare benefits and have caused enormous rises
in Medicaid costs and stipends under Supplemental Security Income and
Disability Income."
In addition, the report says, "many illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases
that American medicine fought and vanquished long ago, such as
drug-resistant tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue,
and Chagas disease."
While politicians often mention there are 43 million without health
insurance in this country, the report estimates that at least 25 percent
of those are illegal immigrants. The figure could be as high as 50 percent.
Not being insured does not mean they don't get medical care.
Under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1985,
hospitals are obligated to treat the uninsured without reimbursement.
"Government imposes viciously stiff fines and penalties on any physician
and any hospital refusing to treat any patient that a zealous prosecutor
deems an emergency patient, even though the hospital or physician screened and declared the patient's illness or injury non-emergency," says the
report." -
I've already got my tickets for a showing of "Borat." I'm definitely NOT a liberal, not a real fan of Moore and his political leanings, but he makes entertaining, thought-provoking films, and God bless him for bringing his film festival to my neck of the woods! I'm not sure what else I'll see besides "Borat" (afraid I may enjoy seeing "Jesus Camp"), but it's a great list of films that Moore is offering us rural Michiganders!
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Universal coverage sounds great, but doesn't pass tests of sound economics. Do we really want to follow the same path? Many of the 45 million uninsured receive Medicaid. I work in healthcare and those on the free public system are the most dishonest, ungrateful, demanding, and noncompliant patients. Why? Simply, it's because they have no vested financial interest in the system. If you socialize American medicine, no one will have a financial interest. Thus, fraud and cost will skyrocket. Then, like in Canada, the government will raise taxes, cut services, and negatively impact service quality.
Also, our prescription drugs cost more because of price controls in other countries. Price controls restrict profits that are used to fund R&D and maintain shareholder equity. Thus, in order to maintain adequate profit levels, lost profits abroad are paid by the US consumer. In essence, we subsidize the entire planet -
...whether or not Michael Moore actually knows that he's a bigger, fatter liar than Bill Clinton- or if he is really as ignorant as he looks... hmmmm guess we'll never know...
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You guys are crazy. I'M Canadian! And you're all wrong! I've lived in Canada for 92 years now and I LIVE in a hospital, for FREE! They've got magical elves and faeries and flit around and pour dark chocolate medicines into my veins to keep me alive. and it's all FREE! and I never have to wait longer than a hair past a kitten for any of it. So all you canadian imposters and american hatemongers can line up to suck my asshole, but you'll have to be quick about it because my asshole sucking is scheduled for 10am tomorrow. And it's FREE!
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[Q]"You people are idiots. Why is the government's (read: taxpayer's) job to provide anyone with healthcare" [A]because it is the government's JOB to maintain the wefare of its people. that is a government's mandate. [Q]"Do you realize that Canada has national healthcare, yet its citizens (who can afford it) flock to the US for their healthcare? Can you imagine waiting months in line just to get an MRI? In some provinces you will go to jail if you visit a private doctor in Canada." [A] this sounds completely like right winger propaganda to me. not once has a canadian citizen ever been threatened with jail time. doctor's have, but private doctor's who behave outside the canada health act are often treated as they have broken the law. [Q]"I simply cannot believe that some of you (and Michael Moore) believe that it's ok to take money from one person, against their will, and give it to someone else for healthcare." [A]The ever increasing majority would say the same thing about the war in iraq. the government is spending billions of dollars on a war that is now grossly unpopular and was based on bush's whopping 51% popular vote mandate. he has only the barest moral authority to lead, let alone send other people's children to die on foriegn soil. [Q]"Here's an idea...how about attack the root of why health insurance is so expensive...frivilous lawsuits. Punish people severely who try to milk the system and it will stop."[A]Nevermind, i didn't realise that you worked for an HMO. if you don't, you should...that previous statement is exactly the same bullshit line that HMO's have been spouting for decades. [Q]"Unfortunantely, you sheep will again just wait for the government to take care of all your problems."[A]That is one of, as i said, the obligations of a government. not to spend billions on foriegn soil, but to spend those billions providing its people.
[Q]"I, for one, look forward to the day when another 5% of my paycheck is taken to provide a heart/lung transplant for a chain smoker. I mean, that's my duty as an American citizen, right? Idiots."[A]and if that 5% went instead to providing a heart/lung transplant to a chain smoker, what if it went to correct a faulty valve in a newborn? the us government spends more money on rebuilding iraq than it does on the issue of homelessness. pull your head out of your ass, realise that helping your fellow man is not just passing words in the bible, but it is definately a way of life. is it worth it to provide a heart/lung transplant to a chain smoker if it means also saving the life of a new born? that is a legitimate question. -
Because all private businesses for evil. For some reason, they happen to provide me with great health insurance for me and my family. Damn them, evil private business! If only the government would take over our healthcare system, I wouldn't have to get all this great healthcare with all those strings attached. For example, I have to show up and work, which is unfair. The government should just pay for my personal welfare, no matter what I do. Preferably, I'd like to do nothing, eat Cheetoes, play video games, and then have the government pay for my liposuction. That would rock.
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You will definitely play less tax than private for profit premiums for health care. Im 5 min from the border and trust me there are way more americans rushing here for emergency care that is illegal to refuse than rich canucks going to the US for care. Not to mention there are already 300 000 americans going to India each year for care to save $. Costs matter. And its not as socialized as you think. Its single payer and docs all operate for profit private clinics here. They make more $ if they see more patients. Most hospitals are operated as private non profit however and along with pharmaceutical regulations accounts for most of the immense savings. Ther isnt a quality issue up here only a quantity issue. Which could easily be addressed if liberal and conservative govs werent so lobbyied and influenced by major corporations and their think tanks mouthpieces like the Fraser Institute.
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"I know your parliament isn't perfect but I don't go on British websites and act like some kind of enlightened observer mocking the plebians."
The difference being that the UK media reports on instances and affairs happening in America much more than the American media reports on British affairs. On top of that, we also have American newstations available on Sky...including Fox *shudders*. If you fancy a laugh, turn on to Fox, it's always good for a chuckle.
People outside of America do care about this stuff because it's confusing to see what goes on in America. I mean between the death penalty, the frankly weak arguments for war, and the appauling health care system..what is there not to be amazed at?
There's a wrestler in the US called Perry Saturn, he saw a woman being attacked and you know where that was leading to, so he gets out his car and saves her. Long story short, he gets shot twice in the neck (lucky for him he's so well built or he'd have died surely). He goes into hospital in America and how is he rewarded for saving a woman? Severe debt as he can't afford the bills. So he had to drag his broken down body back to the ring to earn enough for his surgery....ahh justice
On the other hand, those that can afford it can get their treatment quickly. I guess that's some kind of positive.
We have access to it on the government, even though it's messed up at the moment thanks to that idiot, Blair. The man is nothing more than Bush's lapdog...shame there isn't a great alternative. Cameron wants to scrap the Human Rights Act, that enfuriates me as a lawyer because I can see where this is going, just as my professors warned us.
The world is a messed up place. -
David Duke doing a doc on race relations. Put down the sammich tubby!
http://tv-movies-blahblahblah.notlong.com -
I don't understand why conservatives hate Micheal Moore so much. Just don't buy his books or a ticket to see his films....simple solution. ( I do the same with Kevin Costner films and it puts me in a MUCH better place.)Right or wrong this film could put the subject where it belongs, at the forefront of the debate in American politics. Then we wouldn't have to hear our esteemed "leaders" talking about gay marriage and videogame violence. Who knows....they could actually do something good for the American people!!! Imagine that....
P.S. Darth Pookie should get aids and die so he/she/it never reproduces...but just our luck he'll probably spread his seed amongst his entire trailer park. Let me know when you're on "Springer", dude..... -
>>Engineer
by Deep Cover July 10th, 2006
02:43:37 PM CST
Please don't think that by annoiting yourself a libertarian, you're "in the middle", or above the fray. #1, you guys are so wise, you have never fielded a major candidate, anywhere, ever.>
This is true. The Republicans and Democrats are two faces of the same dirty coin. Even Ronald Reagan, who talked a good game filled with Libertarian code words, fell far short of the Jeffersonian ideal.
>
It's called "enlightened self-interest". You can find out more by visiting http://www.lp.org
>
Visit lp.org
>>My car is also safety-regulated enough so that it won't catch on fire, and even if it did, I'd be able to call police and fire to help me out. You get NONE of that. Buh-bye.<<
With ignorance like this, I don't think I'll see a solid Libertarian candidate elected to major public office until you people manage to elect the Anti-Christ... oh, wait a sec, you already have. -
If i ever saw her in real life I'd shank her. Of course any shanking to be done to disfigure her would only make her more attractive. I always laugh at how people say she's a beautiful woman. She is a fucking dog. Ok maybe she's attractive when you compare her to other female politicians, but a fucking baboon is attractive compared to other monkies. SHE IS A WHORE AND THIS IS WHY IN ALL ABSOLUTES: BECAUSE SHE'S ATTACKING THOSE WOMEN BECAUSE THEY ARE BEING USED AS PARTISAN TOOLS FOR THE DEMOCRATS.. WHAT SHE DOESN'T REALIZE IS SHE IS A FUCKING REPUBLICAN. IE PARTISAN IN EVERYTHING SHE SAYS. PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO DONT GIVE A SHIT WHICH SIDE OF THE TABLE THEY'RE GETTING THEIR DINNER PLATE SERVED ON CAN SAY SHIT ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE USING THE LADIES AS PARTISAN TOOLS BUT NOT HER. PLUS THEY ARE BEING USED AS TOOLS... THEY SUFFERED GREATLY.... THEY AREN'T EVIL... THEY'VE JUST BEEN BRAINWASHED TO TAKE A SIDE, AND PUT THEMSELVES IN THE SPOTLIGHT BY THE DEMOCRATS... SO STFU ANN COULTER and you dumb talkbackers who love her.
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SHE NEEDS TO @#$#ING GROW UP.
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i guess since she didn't lose anyone personally, she can't relate to those that did. God bless america, where not liking your president is tantamount to treason. well, with any luck the republicans will finally get their way, and all the 'liberals' will end up in the same camps as the muslims, jesus will come back, and smite all the republicans for perverting his religion...dare to dream...
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Pantera: Can you let me know here when someone close to you drops dead, like maybe your mother or father, or simply anyone you love? I'd like to take that opportunity to viciously mock your grief and your family. Thanks. And I hope they have a horrible, painful death too. More fun to mock.
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she plagiarized a lot of crap in her new book. This woman is a perfect example of why we need to frigging take the vote away from women again. I'd rather have women women suffrage again than see her mouth continue to flap.
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...from Henry Rollins. I think this pretty much sums it up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9fQAQenllo&search=henry%20rollins%20 -
Shouldn't she hate any widow who takes a stand and gets on TV because they cover her now that she's a widow? Bush and Co uses 911 to push through agendas they had well before 911 and which have nothing to do with it afterwards. Her standard comeback is that Bush must never be criticized because he's a "sitting president." One who sat on his ass and allowed 911 to occur, whereas the stick up his butt micro-managing techocrat that is Al Gore would most likely have made sure to continue the hunt for Bin Laden and most likely would have bothered to read the memo that said an attack was immiment and done somethiong drastic like instructing airport security to restrain people on the terrorist watch list. Hell, it wouldn't even have taken a Gore. Anybody with a modicum of respoinsibility would have known to read the memos and respond --at minimum -- with heightened awareness. But evidently that was one of those jobs Bush won't do. Maybe we could've prevented 911 if we'd had an Indian "guest worker president" in the White House.
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Don't let someone using capslock get to you, buddy. Your devotion to Ann Coulter can help you fend off the 10 year olds. And don't forget to report the next death in your family. Share the pain. I want to hear every last detail about how they died, how much pain they were in, so I can mock your fucking family's grief. You'd be proud, because I can be as vicious as Coulter. Watch me. Do you love your mother? I hope it's your mother.
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Does your statement mean that I can mock the death of Dimebag Darrell? No...that would be too easy...like shooting fish in a barrel...on-stage...in the face..
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...get out there and mow the lawn!!!
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Are they really dead? How did they die? How old were they? Were they killed? Car accident? Cancer? Did they regret how you turned out, their child, an admirer of Ann Coulter? Or were they proud? Were they the kind of people who deliberately raised their son to revel in the mocking of widows' grief? Good then. Please tell me how they died. I never said I hated Ann Coulter. But I will, and can, do exactly what she does to someone like you and her. Only fair right? Or is it people like you and Ann Coulter can't take what you give? Come on, let me know how your dead mother and dead father bought the farm.
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TO VIETNAM in an interview... was caught in her lie... and still DENIED LYING! SHE STILL EVEN WHEN CAUGHT A DEAR IN HEADLIGHTS SHE KEPT ON SAYING CANADA SENT TROOPS INTO VIETNAMN!! SHE'S A BRAINDEAD MONKEY
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...get me a beer!!!
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But I've already spread my seed, oh yes, I decided to breed! A few years back I was traveling through a very lonely little town and just happened to spot the homeless town whore on the street corner one night. Needless to say, several months later, my unholy spawn spread open her greasy rotten pussy lips and squeezed out like a vile zit being popped. If you don't believe me... just ask your mother...
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you and your kind can shove it up your bum.
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Only it was your father... and it was his brown cheesy ass...
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Jul 11, 2006 12:11:40 AM CDT
Hey Pantera, were your mom and pops buried or cremated?
by brokebackcowboy
How long ago did they die? How did you feel? Did you cry? Were they crocodile tears because you were mor concerned about how little money they left behind? What a couple of losers they were! They should have left you more money before they fucking fell dead. Useless fucks they were.
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I'd rather have sex with a yellow buck-toothed, three legged, puss filled cross eyed, bloated stomach, venereal diseased donkey than Ann Coulter........ To sleep with Ann Coulter would be like sleeping with a fragile wrinkly, and stretched mummy... and it would feel like sliding your dick into a snake's vagina if that was at all possible after she manages to get enough saliva together to suck your dick.
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They could raise a cock-gobbling cum-pot of a son with the best of 'em!
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There i said it... they can eat my bum.
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...was it something I said? (smile)
My mom says you have a small dick, cry during sex and that your balls haven't dropped yet.
By the way, you couldn't get laid in a morgue....unless it was with Dime-bag's lifeless corpse. -
So you think it's okay to mock these 9/11 widows because they're "celebrities or famous". Okay then! I think you're certainly famous for being an outspoken posted here at AICN. You're legendary in fact. So you still haven't told me how your parents died. Are you a coward? Yes you are. And when Ann Coulter's family members die, we'll have some fun then too.
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Your source was "immigrationwatchcanada.com" regurgitating a World Nut Daily column? That's piss-poor, man.
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After they saw a child that looked like ann coulter in every way except having a penis, and bigger boobies... they cried themselves to death.
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I can so get laid in a morgue... after all your grandma gave the ol' brown eye up to me with nary a complaint after she passed! MMMMM.. nothin' like the taste and smell of your gammy's home cookin. No wait, I meant her juicy pus-dripping cold-as-ice cunt. Sorry.
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I hope the old woman he was helping was a Bush supported at least! Did he check her party affiliation before helping her? Because God forbid she could've been a Democrat! Oh Jesus! Jesus hates Democrats according to Ann Coulter.
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You're right I think Pantera looks like Ann Coulter! Ha ha his parents spawned a little right wing transexual and they dropped dead from the shock.
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He told me so himself. He also told me that he secretly kikes to swallow... Who knew that the savior was a cum-guzzler!? It sure shocked me.
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... he was going down on me at the time, so...
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Oh, Jesus would be proud of Ann Coulter.
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http://www.suprmchaos.com/2dudes_coulter-hannity.jpg
That's Panterarocks on the left, with his boyfriend Chuck -
Apology accepted. Luckily for me my grandmas are both still alive. Even if they weren't you would probably STILL have to pay for it...but I'm sure you are used to that what with your "pussy patrol" at the petting zoo. For your sake I sure hope they raise the minimum raise or you'll have to spank it to Animal Planet.
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His parents are dead in the ground and their son is on AICN posting love letters for Ann Coulter. Tragic.
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Do you leaves flowers and Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity's books on their gravestones? You know, out of respect?
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Saying one thing... then caught in a lie... check my previous posts. Not in one did i call you a coward. I dont think you're a coward. I think you're a closet homosexual that is over compensating by saying he thinks ann coulter is sexy and would like to jump her ginormous penis
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Dont hide it... you know you are.
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Ah you liar you. Right-wingers don't lie, don't you know that? Well anyway it was fun. I hope your father really does get hit by a car tomorrow. And your mother gets stabbed at the supermarket or some shit. Because we all want to be like a good right-winger and mock people's grief. Oh yeah, "famous" people's grief. And you know what? When you said your parents are already dead, you just gave yourself and your family a load of bad karma. That sucks for you, and them.
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Marc Maron's description of Coulter. I'm sure he meant no insult to the transgendered at large. Elective surgeries like hirs should never be covered by public health. Masectomy victims who want them should get them, though.
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Oh that was laugharageously funny. "Democractic flowers". Right-wing humor just cracks me up.
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I can assure you, your grandparents are looooooooong dead. I mean, hell, I'm sitting here skullfucking your grandfather's corpse AS WE SPEAK! And believe you me, when you have your cock balls-deep in the moldy eyesocket of of a crusty old man's body... you know EXACTLY WHO'S hollow brain cavity you're about fill up with man gravy. Here it comes...
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She's that ugly! in fact I'd rather bang a rotting corpse. I'm pretty sure she's a tripenis. They are very rare. See, their penis is split into three penis's and they shoot venom out of the urethra after inseminating animals (ie donkies, pigs, and lemurs... coulter's favorite)
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I don't agree with your logic but you have a right to be in love with Ann Coulter or whatever. The problem I have is that you are slandering homosexuals. All kidding aside, which I admit I have been doing a lot of,the right-wing seems to be the home of racist and sexist ideology lately and I think you could've made your point without making fun of brokebackcowboy's name. Am I bein hypocritical with the things I've been saying? Probably, but I think history will not be kind to people or presidents who devalue a segment of our American society. Okay?....now back to calling Darth Pookie a pig-fucker!
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... good ol' dead geezer... huh...huhh huh.. good boy... Now where the fuck's your grandma's body?...
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Stop talking about Ann Coulter's tri-penis. You're arousing Pantera and he could end up jizzing on his parents' computer. Then his mother would be touching his crusty cum tomorrow. Which has happened before, but hey, don't encourage it.
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OF MY ANUS! It's nice and warm in there, and she can make friends down there because she has something in commmon with its inhabitants... ie icky, brown, mushy, smelly, ugly, wrinkly, and corn bits all over.
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Jul 11, 2006 12:43:27 AM CDT
Aww I hurt Pantera's witty bitty feelings and he wants
by brokebackcowboy
me to leave the playground ... aww ... right-wingers can't seem to play fair. Little pussy let me play!!!! heh
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I'm telling you, man...you're banging the wrong skull. You should try Princess Dianna's...I hear good things. By the way, I'm sure it doesn't take much for you to be "balls deep" in anything. Half an inch at tops.
P.S. Evil"holebong"??!! Wow!!!Poetic and creative...you're a real catch!!! How do you ever make it out of your mommy's basement without beating them of with a stick?! -
It's alright, Pantera can make fun of my name as much as he wants. His daddy made me the way I am - that child-molesting fuck.
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I bet it's difficult doing all that spanking with a Dart Tater up your ass....
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He appears on this website:
http://tinyurl.com/56k8b
Keep your children away from Republicans. Unless you want them molested of course. -
Why do you doubt the veracity of my statements about the hospital ER closures in Cali? Surely if you think about it logically it makes perfect sense. Besides it's not the messenger but the writer of such information. If you read carefully you'd see that they quoted The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons. If that still doesn't satisfy your lust for truth I'll post the link to the journal itself. http://tinyurl.com/o6r27
Please read it and I trust you'll believe in it's accuracy. Moreover, NPR tends not to lie my friend. Once again, I'm not some demon of the right wing spreading fallacies about the illegal immigration problem, but instead just presenting some facts. You remember what Stephen Colbert said about facts, right? I hope you're not one of "those" my friend. Cheers! -
..it's not okay. It's the same as calling a black person the "n" word. It's not something a decent, caring, mostly CHRISTIAN society should accept. Just my opinion...
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I've quoted a bit from the beginning in case you don't feel like reading from my link:
"The influx of illegal aliens has serious hidden medical consequences. We judge reality primarily by what we see. But what we do not see can be more dangerous, more expensive, and more deadly than what is seen. Illegal aliens -
I don't know about you, but the only Christians I trust are those who act Christian and just don't claim to be Christian. I mean, did you see that one guy they caught on NBC, the guy who was going to molest an underage girl and got busted? He said he was a Christian! Imagine that! And Ann Coulter's Christian too. So is Pantera's pedophile Republican father.
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NPR lies?!! Well I guess not everybody can be as truthful and balanced as Fox news. You do know Steven Colbert is really a Democrat doing a Republican act, right?
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For some inexplicable reason it didn't post everything...my apologies...:
"What is unseen is their free medical care that has degraded and closed some of America -
As a moderate Democrat, I am totally against illegal aliens. They don't pay any taxes, drain resources from our government agencies, distract law enforcement from other duties (such as cracking down on drug-trafficking), do not have any sense of allegiance to our country, and should not have any rights guaranteed to citizens and legal immigrants, who did what was necessary to come here. But what do I know? George Bush likes them.
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This won't work...evilhoban I'm baffled. I was not suggesting that NPR lies and as I stated previously I'm not a right-winger. And yes I know Colbert pretends he's a Republican. I think you misunderstood my previous post because you seem to think I honestly believe Colbert is a Republican.
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Hey Pantera, where'd you go? Fucking coward get back here on the double! Unless you're jerking off to pics of Ann Coulter then enjoy! Hope your parents have life insurance.
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You dumbass, Condom said he doesn't think NPR lies. Learn to fucking read.
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It seems like being Christian and acting Christian are two different things in American society. Ann Coulter, George Bush and all the other douche-bags who base their politics on faith are a bunch of fakes. Would Jesus be against universal health care? Would he look down on homosexuals? Would he be for the war in Iraq? ...and what really pisses me off are the morons who vote based on the abortion issue. I could go on and on but I would get legitimately angry and this wouldn't be fun anymore.
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Both are the epitome of journalistic integrity and makes me proud to be an American.
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My apologies. I take back my previous post. I feel about as embarrassed as Roger Tornhill's mother.
Hey Roger...get bent!! -
And yes Roger do calm down, although I appreciate you coming to my defense. :-)
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Dude you have to realize that Jesus Christ was expunged from the Christian doctrine since the advent of televangelism. Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, Benny Hinn, and all the TV preachers are the new Gods of America. What do they need Jesus for? He was a Jew! They just need the term "Christianity" - forget what Jesus actually taught. The new Christians are free to hate - just look at Ann Coulter and Panterarocks and his soon-to-be-dead parents. And TV Gods dress a hell of a lot nicer than The Carpenter.
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Sorry for my name calling, but this thread has worked me up. I'm a liberal as well who believes that illegal immigration does more harm than good in the long run.
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What kind of fucking name is "Thornhill" anyway? That better be made up. What a pretentious git you are...." my name is Thoooornhill and I'm off to play cricket with Muffy"....Get a life you dolt.
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This link should answer your question: http://tinyurl.com/4axcn
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I'm a liberal too. I'm just batting a thousand on reading these fucking posts... I should really go to sleep. Sorry again....you are not a dolt.
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A prophet of great wisdom and love. Sacrificed for the sake of love of everyone, only to have his teachings murdered by the likes of TV con artists and common scumbags like Ann Coulter and Panterarocks.
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Check out the link and look at the lead actor's character's name.
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Roger Thornhill is a bona fide name. My real name is Charles Emerson Winchester The Third.
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So if I can see this...and you can see this.....WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THE REST OF OUR COUNTRY???!!!
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What the h.e. double hockeysticks are you talking about?
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I did check it out on IMDB. Hitchcock...impressive. Who am I to talk...my middle name is Dennis. Anyway, I will see this movie and probably buy it on DVD because it will probably be good and open people's eyes like 9/11 and his other work. By the way, I think F9/11 was good for our country by trying to hold our government accountable. What's so wrong with that?
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Sorry, I was talking about how people can't wake up to the fact that they are being used by their beliefs....I don't know what time it is where you guys are but it's fucking late in Minnesota.
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A little something you need to learn about how the right-wing sites "studies" - they quote their own thinktanks and foundations. Most people who read them think the Cato Institute or the Heritage Foundation sound important enough to sound authentic, but a simple Google search reveals who they are and who bankrolls them. And that "The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons" you quoted from? Also in the pocket of the right-wing. Source: http://tinyurl.com/gnv9a
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Quint, there is coverage available for everyone, it just costs a few extra bucks.... you do have a job dont you?
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Over the past two years the bbc produced two of the finest docs on the so-called war on democracy. Doc 1 was called the power of Nightmares about old Al-qaeda and the rise to power of the Noecons from their birth in the 50's, their consolidation of power under george bush in the 80s and the destroyed the clinton presidency in the 90 and in doing so they should the power of the media as a weapon. Curtis balanced that with the rise of al-qaeda. after the doc was shown, peter taylor did his own, this was about the modern al-qaeda or alqaeda 2.0, after they had been routed(temporarily) in afghanistan. they are very good documentaries about the war on deomcracy.
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I'll try to Netflix those docs. Maybe Pantera should too. And his pedophile father who likes to secretly molest children. He can learn a thing or two before some disgruntled parent of a molested child comes to his house and shoots his family dead. Dummy Republican pedophiles ...
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Really!?! A few extra bucks for comprehensive health insurance?!?! Oh fuck you have to let all 45 million Americans know where they can get this cheap health care. Maybe some doctor from Guatemala with an office out of his van parked in an alley? Please tell Quint where he can get this cheap healthcare. You know, your next post can literally be the salvation for millions of Americans!!
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Funny how you called Quint "fatass". Maybe your "few extra bucks" health care plan doesn't cover fat people. Maybe that's it. Let's check it out for him since he's busy. Give us the website where we can enroll for this cheap health insurance.
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I love the rebuttal from the Canadians in this thread. "You guys don't know what you are talking aboot. It doesn't take *years* to get surgery. It only takes *six months*!"
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Good call on the 'The Power of Nightmares'. Essential. It should be required viewing for every American. It's bizarre how easily the American public was fooled... the Muslim extremists couldn't even enact any change in their own countries yet in America people are all too quick to fall in line and give up their own personal liberties in fear of them. That documentary puts a lot into perspective on the 40+ year ambition of the neocons, and how they use fear to further their 'American Empire' agenda. Leave it to the BBC to do some real jounalism and then leave it to the American media to totally ignore it. What, was it played once at midnight on BBC America? Is there any media in America with any balls other than a fucking comedy channel?
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Like Hitler (or was it Goebbels) said, the greater the lie, the more people will believe it. That is the mantra of the current Republican party. And Republican pedophiles like Pantera and his father. See? You can claim to be a good Christian but act like a Nazi. Who else but a good Republican can call widows of 9/11 whores and harpies? But when necessary, use them for publicity fodder? Ahh it's good to be a Republican. I want to be a Republican. Must be easier not to have a sense of moral values. Burp.
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All central to the Republican party. Fags like Rick Santorum and Ken Mehlman run the Republican party. All the other Republicans are just closeted fags or pedophiles like Pantera's father. All the Republican women are S&M dominatrix harpies like Ann Coulter and Pantera's mother. And they all love illegal aliens cuz Mexicans mow their lawns for cheap. I feel better being a Democrat.
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Pantera's. Now I know why I have always called Republicans cocksuckers. http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/02/man-called-jeff.html
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Hey bitch. Good morning. Did your father come into your room last night? I know he did when you were a little boy. That's what happens in Good Republican households. Talk to you later, bitch.
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Let's concentrate on the REAL issue here, which is that the statement "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" is ITSELF an absolute. It's like saying "Only a Sith uses the word "only" in a sentence". Since Kenobi is not a Sith, and yet his statement demonstrates that he is himself dealing in absolutes, the statement "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" is self-defeating. Kenobi should have said something more like "Generally speaking, it is quite often the Sith that deal in absolutes". This would admittedly have been very poor dialogue, but then there was plenty of that already present throughout the scene. In fact it was Anakin suddenly realising, far too late to do anything about it, that he could have made a killer comeback to Kenobi's stupid "absolutes" line that actually triggered the famous "Noooooooooooooo!" moment. It was nothing to do with Padme at all. Not sure that any of that has much bearing on a sophisticated political analysis of health care provision, but I thought that was worth mentioning.
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Funny shit from the POTC2 TB. You lame bitch you got aroused from meeting Gerald Ford? Oh no, that is too funny. Did he stroke your penis too, like your soon-to-be-rotting father? Let me know when the bastard croaks because I have a hot dump of diarrhea I have to pour on his grave. Also, then you and your mom can have your incestuous affair out in the open.
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Anakin screaming NOOOOOO was because the fucking emperor forgot to give him a mechanical penis. This was documented in the Encyclopedia of Star Wars Facts. Chapter 38.
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I love it when extremist right-wingers bash free health care. IN poll after poll after poll, the vast majority of Canadians are proud of Health Care and accept the costs in taxes.
So for some a**hole to come on here and talk crap about something he doesn't know anything about (ie. government forefully taking your money to pay for crackheads, etc) is simply unacceptable. The whole point of government is to act in the best interests of the people, and I fail to see how allowing millions (and growing every year) to go without proper health insurance so that a small handful of people can get richer nd richer every year is in the best interests. Letting sick people walk around is how plagues spread and how epidemics occur. HEALTH IS A BASIC HUMAN RIGHT and as such it should be a national honour to provide it. Health is as much a basic right as life itself. Making as much profit as possible is not a right, that is a priveledge. And make no mistake. The facts are that health insurance isn't high beause of lawsuits, it is high because everyone has to make their target profit goals every quarter. Simple as that. The health care providers, insurance providers, etc treathealth like the middle liek the oil companies treat gas. They know they control something that you NEED and will pay any price to maintain; your life. And they have no problem holding you over the barrel and taknig you for everything you are worth.
I also have issue with the idiots who have no problem using roads and public services and public facilities and then turn around and think they are toally self-sufficient and should never have to pay taxes. This kind of social disconnect is borderline psychotic if you ask me. No morals or concerns about anyone other than one's self. FACT...a healthy and properly functioning society is beneficial to YOU and ME more than a divided society with a large, desperate and growing group of poor and sick. If you have a problem with the rules society lives by, then pack up and LEAVE that society. If you have a problem with taxes and all they provide then go buy some land in the middle of nowhere, build yourself a hut, and live off the land and see how far you get Mr. Self-Sufficient. I have an incling that you wouldn't get too far. It's just too easy for your lazy ass to sit, surrounded by the priveledges that society offers you, and criticize. You should be ashamed. -
...so you have a right to health, eh? ...how are you going to ensure that right? You are going to force a health care provider to give you goods & services. What if that health care provider wants to do something else with his resources? Gonna call the cops to force him to provide? Perhaps call the army if he resists? ...and if he resists long enough, and he is forced hard enough, the end result is his death. You have in effect stolen his right to life. Health is not a right.
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is he is funny pretending to be a republican although he is a democrat. He makes the republicans look ridiculous and himself unable to talk to reasonably. Like a true Republican he's always yelling out'you don't support our troops' and 'what about 911?' and 'Jesus this and Jesus that' ... now trying giving a REPUBLICAN the chance to make a news show where he's pretending to be a DEMOCRAT... is that going to be funny? NO! It'll come off as snobby, assholeness, ignorant, not funny and painful to watch. Democrats are the true natural law yo... DIG IT?
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Capitalism isn't a right, property isn't a right, anything you might think is a right is not a fucking right....... SO STFU go take a basic law course on the relationship between the government and individual and tell me HEALTH is not a right
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yes, please don't bring rights into it. I think the point should be that, from some people's viewpoint, a role of government is to endeavour to assure certain desirable qualities of life for all the citizens of its country, where possible. If you bring rights into it, then someone will bring up that one about militias bearing arms, and then this talkback's shit will really hit the fan. Was there film news here somewhere?
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Boy, you really have to marinate in hypocrisy as a wingnut, don'tcha? It's like what Carlin said about Republicans: "If you're pre-born, you're fine. If you're pre-school, you're fucked."
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I guess the only thing that would satisfy you is a direct link to NPR? By your logic one shouldn't trust left wing think tanks as well, correct? They'd be just as biased as right wing think tanks,, although you could accept that sometimes left and right wing think tanks are accurate in their facts. The statement about the closure of hospitals in Cali is an actual fact. They closed becaus they couldn't afford to stay open any longer. Why dispute that? Moreoever, you seem to have trouble accepting the fact that illegal immigration causes any problems. Just as in the early 20th century wages in some occupations have fallen. It's just a matter of math and economics. Illegals are essentially becoming cheap labor for corporations who refuse to pay a living wage for the work they do. Do we really want an underclass of immigrant labor like what France has? I'm not advocating deportation but I think the influx of illegals has to be controlled. Are you an open border advocate who demands blanket amnesty and zero border enforcement? If so, then you must be getting your facts from La Raza.
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OKay but say a baby gets kicked in the head, and that baby is hemmoraging...now that baby did live for a period of maybe 6 months so is that the life it had a right to? Does that baby have a right to anymore life? Or is giving that baby life again amount only to a priviledge? SO STFU before you know what you're talking about...... According to you, we all have a right to life until our health suffers and we die. So basically there is no right involved according to your logic, because a right is something given by the government not something innate to our own being. I am living right now,... i dont consider that a right, it's innate in me. If the government decides to kill me... then i guess they killed me...and you might consider that to be a right to live. So if that is a right to life, then according to your logic a right to life means = we all have a right to live, unless the government decides to kill us
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for someone to say something pro-Ann Coulter. I'm not sure why; she's really not worth even discussing. You can only say so many times how loony and mannish someone is.
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Come to think of it, all rights are just a wish-list of desirable qualities of life which some general consensus has codified, and which either you expect the appropriate authorities to assure for you, or which you expect to have to assert for yourself. Makes nit-picking about what is a right and what isn't even less relevant to this debate.
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we gave up certain things for certain inalienable rights. If the government puts sanctions, and licenses on health care providers than in turn the government owes us a right to health. Otherwise if there was no government then there'd be no licenses, and sanctions... and anyone could be a doctor, and there'd be a hell of a lot more of doctors out there, and i could get treatment anywhere i wanted instead of treatment where only the government says its fit. SO HEALTH IS A RIGHT!
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Ok, according to the Constitution & Bill of Rights, health care is not a declared right. The role of government is simply to protect rights that everyone is born with (and to protect the Nation from its enemies), not to take care of every mishap, or unfortunate event one encounters. In the US, you are (mostly) free to work out your own prosperity. Be self-reliant... it RULES!
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So the defense of right-wingers is based on their piss-poor ability to know what things really mean.
So tell me. If LIfe is a right but not health...how can you honestly have one without the other. Most Republicans claim to be pro-life, but then couldn't care less about people who are sick and die because of no health care. Health and life and one and the same and that is all this boils down to. The right seems to have no problems with massive subsidies going to wealthy corporations, oil companies, etc, etc, etc...but god forbid tax dollars go to make everyone's life better. talk about mistaken priorities. they would rather have all laws protecting one's ability to get richer while screwing the rights of a society to be healthy.
Oh, and before people start looking at how inefficient government is and wasting tax dollars...maybe they should do a few minutes of research and find out which system is cheaper (per citizen). But of course they won't because it would shatter their overly-idealistic view of capitalism and their God money. -
Jul 11, 2006 11:59:31 AM CDT
CDNBogart & Mooly are right. Another thing, bmishoe...
by greatwhitenoise
You make our point for us. Some Canadians with means use the US health care system. Just like how some Americans with means use the US health care system. But you know what? The Canadians who can't afford that fall back on a pretty damn good public health care system (which, one might argue, becomes even more accessible when those with the money opt out). But where do the Americans who can't afford it fall? Wherever it is, I hope like hell I never fall there. Right now, I'm waiting for ACL repair surgery. I can either pay about $5000 and get it done in a week or two, or I can wait a couple months and get it done for free in the public system if I feel I can't afford the fast-track. But at least I have that option. I suspect Sicko will show us more than we ever dared to guess about those unfortunate souls who don't have that option.
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Pure Capitalism is awesome. Look at how many people have prospered because of the Capitalists! How many lives have become enriched and cool products have become available! How much money did the Gates & Buffets recently donate? Without Capitalism, there'd be no philanthropists. Pure Capitalism, given enough time, can solve any problem.
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is not the same thing as having the right to the physical necessaties (food, shelter, health care, etc.) required to sustain life. But let's be honest, most of the people on this thread advocating socialized medicine aren't nearly so enomored with the philosophical or legal arguments as they are with the idea of getting "free" medical coverage and forcing the rest of us to pay for it.
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Like too many sick people, too many old people, too many poor people. See how they disappear!
"Without Capitalism, there'd be no philanthropists". Without Capitalism, you wouldn't need philantropists - no-one would have acquired multi-billion dollar fortunes at the expense of everyone else. The fact that a certain number of the ultra rich, at such a time as they see fit, use a portion of the wealth they have acquired to tackle the particular problems they feel moved to tackle is not a justification of the system. It just highlights the fact that the system is severely skewed and that those who have succeeded in it can compound that success disproportionately. Is no-one else scared by the fact that certain individuals have more influence and power to follow their own whims than most elected, representative governments in this world of several billion people. If they want to only help white protestants or gay one-legged hispanics, that's their choice - it's their money. Tough luck to anyone else. Charity isn't blind. Yes, they (mostly) worked hard to gain that wealth, and yes, they have created opportunities and innovated in that process. The fact remains that millions of other people worked at least as hard and innovated as much in order for the billionaires to gain that wealth as a result of their labours. -
Acutally, yes, I believe the free market CAN solve your list of "too many.." Without Capitalists, we would still be serfs. Poor, sick, and dead by 35.
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individuals holding wide influence and power, is that many of them are in favor of socialism and communism.
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Capitalism is not designed to solve problems. It is designed to make money. To say Capitalism solves problems is either the biggest lie of all time or simple stupidity on your part. I'll let you chose which is which. The fact is that PEOPLE, not capitalism solve problems...capitalism just makes it esaier for some people to help out should they chose. I applaud people like Gates for understanding the social responsibility that should come with wealth. HOwever, i think the honest fact is that people like Gates are the minority. And because the people who make up capitalism are flawed then the whole system is flawed as a result. Because for every generous act by Bill Gates, there is an anti-competitive act. And for every generous CEO like Gates, there is two Ken Lay's.
Capitalism always has and always will have a suicide gene within it. People who revolve their every decision around money are always inevitably going to turn on each other at some point. History has shown this. There is always some massive disaster or economy shattering event to redistribute resources and money. However, I am not anti-Capitalsim. I just don't put my faith in something so falsely meaningful as money. Money is not a long-term solution to life and well being, it is merely an aid. Just as Capitalism is a means to make money but not a healthier stronger or more peaceful society. I believe that Capitalism should look after what it does best, making money; and government should do what it is MEANT to do, look after the people. Because Capitalism doesn't give a damn about people. It was never designed to. So when I want to buy a new TV I will put my faith in capitalism to find the means...but when I want to simply live a healthy existance I will put my faith in the people I elected (or were elected by the majority) to ensure that my right to exist is not stomped on in favour of making money. -
By your own logic, Mooly, that means the whole government system is flawed, as well. Capitalism solves problems, because every problem that exists also creates new markets to be filled. For instance, sick people buy remedies and treatments. Old people buy things that make them feel younger. Poor people buy the most inexpensive things they can find. I think your argument is with the fundemental nature of the universe and human existence, which is that people have to acquire food, clothing, shelter, etc. in order to survive. Most people work in order to exhange their labor and creativity for those goods. You want it all handed out by government in the name of society without concerning yourself with where it's all going to come from.
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...the difference is that the country has a say in whether or not the Gov't is doing a good job. I realize it is cool these days to be so apathetic that we view government as something that is out of our hands, but that is WHY we end up with such corrupt government; they know most people won't care or do anything. So you see, if you don't like what Walmart is doing, tough luck, you won't be able to stop them. But if you don't like what your government is doing there are regular elections for you and the rest of the population to have their say.
But make no mistakes, no matter what the so-called libertarians or right-wing or whomever else you are reading tells you...capitalism doesn't solve problem. If a business has a choice between proting by helping people or legally profiting even MORE by hurting people...they will hurt you 9 times out of 10. Capitalism is not about morals or caring. It is not about anything other than making money. That is the way it always has been since the invention of capital. All the libertarian literatuer in the world isn't going to change reality. But nothing I say will change your mind or you roverly-naive views of what capitalis really means. Frankly, I won't bother. I find arguing with libertarians over the nature of capitalism is like arguing about the existance of unicorns. Like the true free market, unicorns have never existed...but it won't stop libertarians from arguing how beautiful and perfect their view of a "unicron" is. I say this because the way you completely warped and misrepresent what I am saying (as shown in your closing sentence) tells me you are thinking rationally or with any logic. You are like the avid Bush apologists who simply wants to label everyone who disagrees with BUsh as a "liberal" whether they really are or not. You want to label everyone who disagrees with your naive views of a "free market" as being a communist/socialist who "want it all handed out by government" which is not even close to what I am saying at all. -
Mooly, I totally agree with you that it is PEOPLE who solve problems. When I say "Capitalism" I'm referring to a condition where individual people are free to exchange with each other. So I believe, if left to their own devices, unhindered by government regulations, PEOPLE will find a way to provide health care for everybody. And I believe the USA founding documents created the condition that has allowed the USA to be the most prosperous nation in history (I'm an Aussie, but currently live in USA). I cringe every time government is given some controls that the Founders never intended. I agree with Col. Davy Crockett -http://tinyurl.com/eofhj
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I'm sorry you find skepticism "frustrating", I'm just not willing to believe something just because it's on the internets. Maybe it's a problem, maybe it isn't - though I find it extremely hard to believe it would close down ANY hospital, much less eighty-something of them that you THINK you heard. The left doesn't have the foundation and thinktank infrastructure the right, so they're forced to use non-biased sources when they report. Don't believe me? Here's another fake report the Republican Congress used to try to counter the accepted science on global warming; I picked it apart for the sham it was on my blog: http://tinyurl.com/edl72 Took me about a half hour and a handful of Google searches, is all. The right counts on you being stupid enough to accept their "studies", even though they often cherry-pick stats to make the reality hazy, a la "the case for war" in Iraq.
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...is that, with his self-reliance mantra, he probably read "Atlas Shrugged" and thought it was non-fiction. It's pseudo-philosophy, wrapped up in a poorly-written fictional story. In short, propaganda. L.Ron Hubbard did the same thing with "Battlefield Earth" - and I'm sure there's another lemming somewhere sounding just like Reardon_Steel saying "Try Scientology - it's great!" Self-reliance is great, no doubt - but it certainly does not encapsulate all of our existence like Reardon thinks it does. On a planet of 6 billion people, there are always larger forces at work.
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an admittedly conservative, pro-business, or religious persuaion doesn't automatically make their arguments incorrect and immediately dismissable. Yet, that was the exent of your proof that the report was a sham. No where do you even attempt to address the substance of what was there. And you are out of your mind if you think the left doesn't idealogically own a majority of America's (and the world's) thinktanks and foundations. The political left pioneered the whole concept of using them to influence society and government. Conservatives are just finally catching on.
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"On a planet of 6 billion people, there are always larger forces at work."
Exactly. And or a gov't to attempt to control something so massive & complex as the economy, is ass-9. -
"Try socialism (or some form thereof) - it's great!" And you're backing that up with what, historically repeatedly discredited humanism?
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No country or government on the planet is a complete capitalist or socialist state -- they are mixes of the two, to a greater or lesser degree. Capitalism cannot and does not exist by itself, and neither does socialism. Although the religious and economic extremists in Washington would like it otherwise, unrestrained capitalism has to be restrained by socialist tendencies - because as someone pointed out earlier, capitalism has no moral code; it exists only to feed itself. Pea-brained morons like detinue will try scare tactics and tell you that the whole country is headed to commie socialist hell, when in fact, it is there to balance out unrestrained capitalism. Milton Friedman thinks regulations keep capitalism from running at full tilt? Well, GOOD. Tough shit. I'd much rather have Ralph Nader regulate my car's safety than discover it in a regulation-less fireball.
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"the only thing that scares me about certain individuals holding wide influence and power, is that many of them are in favor of socialism and communism." I think you can probably rest easy in the meantime. It ain't gonna happen.
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Actually. Yeah. I'm sick of subsidising people. I want all roads to be toll roads (give me those taxes back). I want all websites to be subscription only. I want all TV to be pay-per-view. I want all beaches and wilderness to be under the control of responsible private enterprise who will keep the riff-raff out. I want my coffee/sneaker/peanut butter brand of choice to stop wasting billions on sponsorship of events I'm not at, and advertisement on TV/radio/internet propping up programmes and sites I don't care about and feed the money back to me in reduced prices. I want to have no hand in funding any medical research which does not benefit 30 year old white males. Testicular cancer - yes. Skin cancer - yes. Male pattern baldness - yes. RSI - Yes. Breast cancer - no. Ovarian cancer - no. MS - no. AIDS - probably not. Sickle cell anaemia - no.
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You buggers still there? Piss off. This is my website, and I'm not sharing.
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Ha! Capitalism is inherently moral. To succeed in business you must meet the needs & wants of others... otherwise, they won't give you their money. Capitalism ensures that as we strive to make our own lives better, we are contributing to the "public good".
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And how exactly were Enron, Tyco, WorldCom, etc. meeting the "needs & wants of others"? Seems to me they were meeting their own needs - like I said, feeding itself, without regard to the people they "served". The lack of regulation and oversight allowed that to happen, and only under regulation and oversight were they brought to justice.
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to come from government. Instead of being free and having as little government interference as possible. Figures. That's why things are headed the way they are. Just don't be surprised when the government interprets your "rights" (hee hee) the same way they do the Constitution (whichever way the wind blows).
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I'm a moderate Democrat. Illegal Alients have no rights as far as I'm concerned. They takes their chances when they cross the border (and I'm not limiting this to Mexicanos). You want to live here and be entitled to the rights America offers? Then apply for a Green Card or Citizenship. And BTW, Pantera's father is a Republican Pedophile. As if there is any other kind of pedophile ...
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That's how it's supposed to work in a democracy. If the majority favors a safety net, or health care, or public schools, or any of the other usual acoutrements of civilization, that makes it a right. And anytime people try to take one of the basics of life that is favored by the majority and claim it's not a right, they are usually trying to outmaneuver the majority rule.
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You stupid son of a child molester, don't you have any better insults?! Leftist, Commie, Socialist? I thought you read Ann Coulter. Even that vile cunt has better shit than you. Do you know where your father is? Do the parents in your neighborhood know about him?
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rant on that unregulated cars are fire balls. Now that is a scare tactic. Most things work just fine without government regulations. In fact, virtually all of human society throughout history was unregulated by government. And what exactly makes the government qualified to regulate all this stuff anyway? Because you are and your like are afraid of those darn capiltalists making stuff and earning all that money?
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private health care than that's a right too? Does it work both ways? And is mob rule absolute?
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Which you clearly are, if you don't know anything about automobile safety before "Unsafe At Any Speed". Hint: it wasn't the auto companies who mandated things like seat belts and airbags. The "fireball" comment was deliberately overbloated - I was making fun of your hyperactive we're-turning-into-the-Soviet-Union notions.
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sorry but it's true. Life is a right but not health? I agree with that guy who said you cant have one without the other.... so stfu... i hope your baby gets kicked in the head, then lets see you complain about how life is a right and health shouldn't be.
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No much in the way rhetorical skills, Deep Cover. Cars did just fine for 70 or so years before Ralph Nader came along. People bought them by the tens of millions, too. You can try to fool people be calling it by a different name, but if you are advocating government controlled and mandated health care then it is socialism. Of course, if you actually admitted to it, then you'd be screwed because you'd never get a majority to implement it.
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and pay the doctor for services rendered (or my insurcane, which I freely pay for, would pay the doctor). Why is the concept of handling a problem yourself instead of automatically looking to the government to solve it such a hard concept for you guys on the left to understand? And before you ask, back when I didn't have insurance I either paid the doctor out of my own pocket when I needed to go, or believe it or not, I didn't go when I couldn't afford it.
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What if a dead beat mother that smokes two packs a day, drinks a 6 pack a day... and lives off welfare, is unemployed and has no money to spend.... and she has her baby kicked in the head by some other human being ... this baby did shit... this baby did not deserve getting kicked in the head... does that baby not have a right to health? I REALLY HOPE SOMEONE GIVES YOUR BABY A KICK IN THE HEAD DETINUE I HOPE THEY KICK IT SO HARD IT HEMMORAGES ALL OVER THE PLACE AND I HOPE YOU CRY YOUR FACE OFFY OU SICK FUCK! I HOPE YOUR BABY ROTS IN HELL!
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you and your stupid baby can get raped
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CHECK DETINUE... GET A FREAKIN REALITY CHECK... health is a right... for the disadavantaged, and special needs.
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...One more time: Dr Mr Moore. The subjects you target are worthy. Many of them involve lying sacks of crap. However, being a lying sack of crap yourself does not serve your message very well, in exposing lying sacks of crap. In the future, please try not to purposefulyl lie to the audience while in the process of trying to point out lying sacks of crap. Most audiences are unable to appreciate the irony. I'd ask you to at least pretend to be objective, but I know I'm asking too much here. As we all know, it is wrong for Fox News to be biased (because they're wrong), but it is okay for liberals to be biased (because they're right).
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If I hated poor people, I would vote Democrat. If uninsured people make you vomit with rage, and you want them to be miserable, be sure to vote for the most liberal politician available. Just some advice for those of you dipping your toes into politics.
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There's that dirty word again: socialism! I'm getting tired of repeating this to your dumb ass, but every country on the planet has a mixed economy, capitalist AND socialist. You can confuse socialism with communism all you want, make it sound e-vil, but socialism keeps capitalists looking respectable. I know you've been taught by whatever retard raised you in a barn to demonize the words "liberal" and "socialism", but we're the ones looking out for you, and always have been. If you want to chant the capitalist mantra in the hopes of getting a few more crumbs, feel free.
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"I can't believe a lot of you want your rights to come from the government". Pesky government, with their pesky laws and pesky enforcing of those laws. Repeal the laws making murder, rape, kidnap and slavery illegal, have the government retire from such blatant interfering in the lives of public citizens, and let's see how long your rights to life, freedom and self-determination last. Is that a knock at the door? At this hour? Who could that be?
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People who are against government regulation feel this way for two reasons. 1) They are rich and want to get richer by removing any obstacles to exploiting the general public. 2) They are not rich and have been brainwashed into supporting this argument through propaganda and they have a weak, "ditto, I follow whatever Rush says" mentality. Government of the people, by the people, for the people. Don't like it, right-wing dittoheads? Move to Mexico, where regulation is non-existent.
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healthcare. What you described would be a terrible tragedy, but not a basis for right. If you're looking for someone to rage at, may I suggest the "dead beat mom". Interpreting the right to life the way you do (i.e. the right to life also means the right to the things neccesary to sustain it) is like someone claiming the 2nd Amendment not only gives them a right to own a gun, but that the right requires the government to buy them one. There is a big difference between the two.
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No one needs to leave. Instead, small government types like myself can be politically active, vote, and work to shrink/check the governments power whenever possible. A majority can strip the government of power just as it can expand it.
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certain minimal powers such as running the military, the police, and the courts. It's when the government strays far a field into things like nationalizing healthcare that people want to reign it in.
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Socialists give themselves a bad name all on their own. You can play semantics if you want, Deep Cover, and insist on calling it a mixture; but, even if you're only calling for 85% socialism (or whatever percentage you'd set it at) you're still in favor of the government nationalizing huge chunks of the economy, like medicine. That is exactly what people like me and Reardon oppose as an unwarranted power grab by the government. And regulations brought down Enron, Tyco, and WorldCom? Only in your dream world. The free market brought those companies down before the government ever stepped in. The free market stopped those companies by refusing to do busines with them, by tanking their stocks, cutting off their cash flows, and completely destroying their credibility. The government didn't step in until after all that had happened and the companies were wiped out. And no one is against criminal laws for business fraud, insider trading, embezzlement, etc. which is what the top execs. were nailed for.
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Is sick, and it needs to be worked on. As a former employee of a large national Health care provider on the east coast, I can say that this issue is filled with avarice and greed at the top levels on the corporate health system. Top executives are making far too much money at the expense of helping people to afford basic health care. These executives pad their already bloated pay with very large pension payoffs when they leave their companies to "retire".
Then, they come back to that same company as a "consultant" to make even more money, even though they are "retired" and now earning "retirement pay".
That is called "double-dipping".
It is wrong, immoral, and illegal.
Ideally, I would like more Government oversight on controlling costs- especially the expense costs associated with greedy and lavish Corporate Executive pay and benefits. With what the CEO's and COO's make annually, you can help hundreds more people locally who cannot afford health insurance to get the care that they need.
Yes, even our own Government is too inept to tackle such an issue as this, but there has to be oversight from some source to fix this sinking health care ship.
I have my doubts about this actually being fixed in our lifetime. I am saying it won't, because there are too many people who have too much power in this country to truly make a positive change.
Just call me cynical.
I really hope that Michael Moore will do a good job on this one, because people need to know what it going on with this very important issue. He needs to expose the greedy executives who are making too much money at our expense. -
Because talking to detinue is like talking to a brick wall. There's no back-and-forth discussion whatsoever, just rote repetition of Randisms, and when he runs out of those, he tells me what *I* must think. Yes, dumbfuck - if it helps you to justify yourself by thinking I want "85% socialism", then by all means. The brainwashing is utterly complete; report to Mrs. Limbaugh and Hannity for further treatments, null unit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_economy
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You people who are clamoring for socialized health care are arrogant and blind. Do you honestly think a bunch of PEOPLE (the gov't is just people) can invent some magical system that can tame & control the massive multi-BILLION (trillion?) dollar health market?! The gov't can't control dick. I work in the steel construction industry. A few years ago the dumb Bush administration raised tarrifs on production. Yay! The steel mills are saved! Yeah, well the mills might be fine, but those of us who have to buy steel were f*%ked. It is a LAW & natural FACT that everytime an individual's freedom to decide what's best for himself is violated, you will have unintended consequences. The economy is MASSIVE, people try to predict the ebbs & flows daily and FAIL. Like we can't accurately forcast the weather further than several days, so too can the market predicted & controlled. Social fantasy fairys - you are mistaken... about a great many things. I'm out.
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He makes documentaries. He nails his subjects. He was right about the war, about Bush, about the lying, about the oil. The only "subject" is the irrational hatred of those whose fantasies he destroys.
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My God, what hateful, stupid, little men the rightists are.
Moore was right, you are wrong. Assertion is not fact, and the facts are that Bush lied, the war was an invasion and theft of an oil field, F911 nailed his ass, and you can't handle the truth. And we have the most expensive and least effective health care systems in the western world. Over 25 % of the health care dollar is being stolen outright by the HMOs as admin fees. Jesus. Health can't be sold like Coca Cola: it takes a government to keep us from being bankrupted by the thieves who always take over a scarcity market. -
so far to the left politically that you don't even realize it. Other than repeatedly resorting to insults and evasions, you haven't made any arguments beyond erroneously trying to claim that the government mandating the right to health care for every citizen is politically in the mainstream of American society. Just a little reminder, the last time a major party seriously suggested doing that was the Democrats in 1993-94, and they were immediately swept out of control of both chambers of Congress in the very next election. And no, I am not going to let you get away with changing the terms of the debate into phrases more poltically advantageous to you. So we're all supposed to call it a "mixed economy" now instead of "socialism". Just like it's a "choice" instead of an "abortion", and they're "undocumented workers" instead of "illegal aliens". Nice try.
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vis-a-vis the I can't call it socialism and criticize it as such because no country has a pure form it. Then by using the same logic you can't call capitalism by that name or criticize it as such, either, because no country operates a pure form of it. Of course, I am not suggesting you actually have to refrain from doing that. I am merely pointing out the error in your entire line of reasoning regarding that particular position.
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The top 10% of wage earners pay over 60% of all taxes in the United States, all this bullshit talk about the rich not paying taxes and not doing their part is a complete lie. Do you know how much money you have to be making to be a part of that upper 10%? The answer is only $75,000 a year, most couples make more than that with their wages combined. That would place them solidly within the middle class. So it is the upper middle class - upper class who would be shouldering the burden once again. Great fucking idea, robbing from people who work for a living and EARN their fucking money. I sure can't wait to see my paystub reflect monet being stolen out of my pocket.
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Pantera, although you may still harbor feelings of hatred for your father for what he did to you and your siblings, you still need to cure his pedophilia so he can't harm other children anymore. Here's the sure: take an aluminum bat, and bash his nuts in. Three times. Problem solved! BTW, Ann Coulter says hi - she's sucking my dick right now. Sucka!
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You don't have any right to your own money at all. Only an evil, greedy, extremist, right-wing propagandizing, leeching, reptillion brained, profit seeking, moral-less capitalist would think such a thing as that their money was their's. Get with the program. It's Quint, Tommy_Cole, brycemonkey, Deep Cover, Scottylang, mulberry, moviemaniac, JJS, CDN_Bogart, BrandLoyalist, busby, Childe Roland, Zombie Carnifex, Film Springfield, pax256, wolack22, the "dead beat" mom and her "hemmoraging" baby from wolack22's cockeyed hypothetical, Batutta, I Own You, darth mortis, brokebackcowboy, Mooly, Great White Noise, Jack Parsons, and pretty much everyone in the entire world except you who has rights to your money. But not to fret, while you are spending six or more months out of every year working to make their money, they swear you'll also get some sort of total net societal gain for your troubles. Of course, this net gain is rather nebulous, impossible to pin down, accurately quantify or directly measure, and, is a mathematical impossibility since no government can ever give back more than it first takes in; but, you'll just have to take their word on it and trust them (kind of like global warming).
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AICN talkbacks often consist of stuff like, "Anna Paquin has huge cans, and I would like to squeeze them." and, "Rosario Dawson reading from the phone book = orgasm. God, would I love to hit that." Real deep fellow, apparently. At least this explains the banner on his blog.
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First of all, Hairy - as of 2003, AGI for the top 10% was more like $100,000. Yes, we and pretty much every nation on Earth have a progressive tax system; the richer can and should pay more. Stats on who pays what in federal income tax is misleading, which is why the right-wing quotes it so much. The real question is what the total percentage of people's tax burden is - federal, state, local, property, income, sales tax, etc. - and that is, of course, disproportionately favoring the rich, especially when you realize how much of what they should pay gets written off with creative accounting and tax breaks available only to them. Secondly, detinue - you're kinda obsessed with me, man. I'm sorry I humiliated you with your own stupidity, but it's time to leave this thread and get yourself a life, mmkay? OK.
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such as yourself, Deep Cover. Of course, as shown by your many posts and blog entries, you are completely self-discrediting and my efforts here turned out to only be redundant. You really aught to confine yourself to posting the juvenile sex stuff because it's the only thing you've got any credibility left at.
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Summarily declaring as invalid any and all sources, persons, data, and (dare I say it) words that don't totally support your preordained positions is not a debate technique. While it may seem extremely clever the first time or two you employ it, by the 20th or 30th consecutive time you insist upon using it as your only line of defense, such as above in your reply to Hairy Nutsack, you come off looking heavily deluded. Of course, it does allow you to never have to admit defeat even in the face of total ruin, which I suspect is the main reason why you use it.
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It is time to end this thread. There are only so many times and in so many ways that I can intellectually thrash you before it grows stale. Goodbye...until the next AICN talkback.
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At least Deep's not a child molesting Republican Pedophile like Pantera's father. Or a closeted self-hating fag like Ken Mehlman, Jeff Gannon and Rick Santorum.
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I'll pass. Republican women are irredeemably ugly. No wonder Pantera's father likes boys.
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the considerably stunted level of his maturity.
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