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ARMY OF GHOSTS!! Two Reviews of DOCTOR WHO 28.12!!

Published at: July 2, 2006, 12:43 a.m. CST

I am – Hercules!!

While we here in the United States just finished watching the 27th season of “Doctor Who” on the SciFi Channel, the wily Brits have already seen “Doctor Who” 28.12 on the BBC. The verdict over there…

“Russ” says:

Hi Herc

Heres a review of Doctor who episode season 2 ep 12.."Army of ghosts" whic aired in the u.k tonight.

Well after a couple of meidiocre doctor who episodes we get back to business tonight of part 1 of the season finale!!..so here goes!

The doctor and rose visit Roses's mum back on present day earth but when they arrive they discover that ghosts have crossed over from the other side and have penetrated earth,they are everywhere and the doctor starts to investigate immediatley. Little do we know that the government Torchwood institute (torchwood will be dr who's new spin off show starting soon!!) have already began their own investigation of sorts and discovers that the doctor is back, and on the case. To cut things short the doctor arrives in torchwood to find he is greeted by the director of the torchwood project, a women called Yvonne Hartman. She begins to explain what is going on and shows the doctor a sphere type ship they have captured,apparently after much technobabble and expostion, it appers that this is a ship that meant for inbetween dimensions,it exists outside of time and space!!, all the time this is happening various personnel have been lured to a part of the base where they are kind brainwashed and sent back out to do some nafarious doings which we dont know what yet.Eventually the doctor realises that the Cybermen through using the sphere have found a way to cross over to our dimension from the one which we saw earlier in the season in the 2 parter "rise of the cybermen/age of steel. The cybermen start to invade the earth,all over the world in fact..untill that is.. the sphere ship begings to crack...and out come ......THE DALEKS !!!!!!!!! end of ep!

Well what an ending,cant wait till next week!! The final ep in the season will feature both the cybermen and the daleks for doctor who's very first time and what a battle it proposes to be..well was this ep any good really?

THE GOOD

A great pre-credits sequence with rose ..MAJOR SPOILER ALERT! ..Telling everyone that this is "The story of how i died",some nice cg work of the doctor and rose on another planet,looked kinda prehistoric?,the return of Mickey..yes i like him!, the end invasion of the cybermen.

THE BAD

Not much,but it does take a while to get really going and sould of done with a tad more action but i guss this is being saved for next week..can't wait

I give this ep 4 out of 5

“Kelvington” says:

Doctor Who - Army Of Ghosts - A Review And Recap

Wow just when you think “Doctor Who” might be flailing a bit, they pull this one out and show us what it means to produce good television again. While the opening bit is very down beat, Rose talking about her death in the past tense and all, the episode on a whole is one of the best yet. It definitely holds up to last years series finale, and oddly some familiar faces show up. Here’s a short overview of what happened.

The episode begins with a long shot of Earth, with Rose giving a voice over of how this is the place she was born, and this is where she died. She talks about how she met the Doctor, including a glimpse of the last Doctor and a place we’ve not seen in any episode. We find out this is the story of how Rose died.

After the credits, we see the Doctor and Rose come home to visit with Jackie, whom as it turns out has a visitor of her own coming. Her Dad, but there’s a problem, dad is dead, long dead. Murray Gold does a great job hinting at his “Song For Ten” in the background music, making us remember the first time the Doctor was here.

When long dead dad makes an appearance he’s sort of blurry, and humanoid looking shape, that Jackie swears is her pop. Seems these ghosts are everywhere. Oddly no one is scared of them, and they have even invaded pop culture, as the Doctor skims channels on the Telly, to see the ghosts in everything from weather forecasts, to talk shows, and even a very popular soap from the UK. It’s a hilarious and exceptionally expensive moment watching the Doctor change channels and seeing all the different ways ghost have been incorporated over the entire planet.

Jackie swears they are human, and the Doctor reminds her, a foot print looks nothing like a boot. We now are introduced properly to “Torchwood”, with a woman who looks so much like Gillian Anderson, that she could be her sister. Her busty, full of cleavage sister. It seems Torchwood can make the ghosts appear and disappear with a device they are working on, and seem quiet happy to do so.

We are also introduced to the ball in the basement, sort of golden ball that just hovers there, and look ominous. And of course there are people scanning it, trying to figure it out. The Torchwood facility is a lot like a huge military complex but with an emphasis on people skills not just power. Think UNIT, with a friendly face.

A couple of Torchwood employees sneak off for a snog, and in the process meet this year’s greatest foe, the walls of hanging sheets of plastic. Perfect for setting a scary mood, and perfect for covering up what lies behind. It turns out there’s a Cyberman there and when the people return to their posts, they have not one, but two Bluetooth ear pods on, similar to what the people of the parallel universe had in their ears.

One of the funniest moments of this year occurs when Rose asks the Doctor if he’s going to sit back and do nothing, when the Doctor emerges from the lower level of the TARDIS, with a proton looking backpack on his back, and saying… “Who you going to call?” and Rose quips back.. “Ghostbusters!!”.

The Doctor uses his device, which looks so much like a Dalek manipulator arm, that I swore that’s what it was last week. He uses it to determine where the ghosts are coming from, and Rose and Jackie inside the TARDIS work the scanner and try and locate the source of all this. In a tender moment between Rose and Jackie, they talk about Rose’s future and what she will be like if she stays with the Doctor. When the Doctor finds out where the ghosts are coming from, he immediately points the TARDIS to it, just as Torchwood use London’s street cameras to catch a glimpse of the TARDIS as it vanishes from view. The Gillian Anderson-esque leader of Torchwood called Yvonne Hartman, susses out that the Doctor MUST be on his way here and makes plans to receive him.

The TARDIS starts it journey, when Rose points out that her Mum is still on board, this displeases the Doctor, but he uses it nicely in a moment or two. The TARDIS appears inside a warehouse in Torchwood complete with guns pointed at it, and a greeting from Yvonne, once the guns go down, the salutations to the Doctor start, along with the idea of “If it’s alien, it’s ours” sort of the Torchwood motto. The Doctor pulls Jackie out of the TARDIS and introduces her as Rose, while the real Rose is left in the TARDIS to figure out what’s going on. The Doctor is informed he’s a prisoner, but in a polite way, as he’s introduced to the ball of death in the basement. Plus we get a little history of Torchwood itself, which if you were a fan of the show you already know.

It turns out this ball, is a void ship, that lives outside of time in the void between dimensions, and the Doctor suggests they send it back to Hell before things get too ugly. Yvonne, tells the Doctor, there is great power to be harnessed here for the British Empire, so they can be free and independent from the middle east. The way the ghosts are brought into this world is via a particle beam being shot at wall that opens a hole in space, and allows the ghosts to pass into our world in a controlled way. The Doctor, tells them, that this is creating cracks in our universe and the other universes are bleeding in. He implores her not to do it again, and instead of stopping her sits down and watches her get ready to open the void. He won’t stop her, which scares Yvonne more than she will admit, and she stops the ghost shift, as they call it.

Rose is investigating on her own, trying to use the psychic paper to get around the facility, until she comes across the ball in the basement, where she is asked by a technician for her authorization, she produces the psychic paper and is found out immediately, because the people in Torchwood have been trained in some level of psychic ability, and aren’t fooled by her Jedi mind tricks. We notice that in the background that a familiar face is there… it’s Mickey working for Torchwood it seems.

While the Doctor is chatting away with Yvonne, the power to the ghost shift starts powering up, and can’t be stopped. The people who met up with the Cyberman are now taking control of the facility. The Doctor stops them with his sonic screwdriver, well, kills them is more like it. But he tells us they were already dead, which makes it OK. While the ghost shift gets stronger, the ball in the basement starts going all wonky and shaking the place up a bit. The Doctor and Yvonne discover the Cybermen who make a grand entrance cutting through the plastic paper walls. As thousands and thousands of ghosts start to appear as normal but this time they fully form into Cybermen and start taking over the planet. We are treated to several shots of the Cybermen showing up all over the place, including in people’s homes and waiting for them upstairs. Good luck getting the kiddies to go to bed tonight!

The ball in the basement starts to open while Mickey and Rose look on, Mickey is ready for them and unveils a hidden gun and prepares to use it on the Cybermen, except… Cybermen aren’t coming out of the ball, but DALEKS start to emerge. This makes the place go mad, as the episode ends with Daleks screaming their now famous “Exterminate, exterminate!”.

For an episode that comes just weeks after the terrible abomination that was “Love & Monsters”, I was shocked at how much I liked this one, and how the time literally flew by. Next Saturday night is way to far off for us to wait for the conclusion of this episode. Which I suspect will draw one of the highest ratings ever for a “Doctor Who” episode, and this is a very nice introduction to the world of Torchwood, coming to a telly near you in the very near future.

The direction was quick and full of great shots that we will remember for a very long time, the music this week didn’t detract or overshadow the actors too much, which it has been doing for the last several episodes, and the acting was right on par.

While we have no choice but to wait seven full days for the conclusion, here is a little taste of what’s to come - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv9QuNghybI

Just my 2¢









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Readers Talkback

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  • July 2, 2006, 12:58 a.m. CST

    ZOMG, Daleks AND Cybermen!

    by Col. Klink

    I just died and went to heaven.

  • July 2, 2006, 12:59 a.m. CST

    BTW...

    by Col. Klink

    ...Thanks to the British fans who capped this and put it up on the torrents! Cheers, mates!

  • July 2, 2006, 1:02 a.m. CST

    Mamma!

    by Purgatori

    Woza fucking wow! It was like Batman Dead End, but with the Doctor! That was awesome! And yay! Mickey grew a pair! That friggin rocked!

  • July 2, 2006, 1:04 a.m. CST

    This episode kicked ASS

    by WeirdEd

    Yeah it's a little slow going at first but the final few minutes are one BAM! after another: Mickey's back and he's got a BFG-9000, the HORDES of Cybermen that conquer Earth in one fell swoop and then the Daleks... now we know why the last two episodes were so cheap-o, 'cuz this one and the next must be costing some serious coin. Worth getting on file torrent if you're a poor American sap like me who can't wait for Sci-Fi to show it next year :-)

  • July 2, 2006, 2:06 a.m. CST

    ticked all the geek boxes

    by aestheticity

    with a classic clash of the titans (well thats really next week, but i'll say it now) but i do find it troubling that the daleks have been wheeled out for BOTH new series finales now. you know? i'm guessing there'll be a clever twist on the daleks presence next week and they won't be cookie cutter baddies, im hoping its not a bit of a bad guy overload, a bit over the top. in fact, a bit american. let's wait and see how they resolve it. on a related note, it's pretty notable how well the finale was kept secret. i don't believe anyone had any idea there'd be daleks, and i'm a spoiler hound.

  • July 2, 2006, 2:28 a.m. CST

    Daleks

    by durmer killik

    I could have sworn in the trailer last week they showed the dalek pov. Must go watch again to see if I need to put my foot in my mouth.

  • July 2, 2006, 2:33 a.m. CST

    My foot tastes funky

    by durmer killik

    They did show a dalek death ray/negative skeleton thingy though.

  • July 2, 2006, 4:01 a.m. CST

    Hmmm

    by kentrel

    I watched this episode and had to switch off early on - the acting was so bad.

  • July 2, 2006, 4:03 a.m. CST

    by ElPaw

    The Daleks want to ex-ter-mi-nate everyone,the Cybermen want to up-grade everyone, so why have they teamed up? Bit of a Ribbentrop-Molotov pact going on here. Maybe there'll be a Barbarossa next episode, and that'show the humans survive this otherwise-unstoppable onslaught.

  • July 2, 2006, 4:13 a.m. CST

    Holy shit ! Holeeeeeeeeeeeeee shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit-ah !!!

    by RobinP

    Suddenly smug, I have to ask, well....was I right last week ? Was I ? Answers on the back of a postcard.On a more serious note GODDAMN that's EXACTLY the Dr Who episode all us baby boomers have been waiting for since the sixties, only instead of having the battle for earth represented by six Cybermen and four Daleks in an industrial estate or a quarry pit, the miracle of CGI can show Cybermen in Paris or advancing on the Taj Mahal. The stunning sight of three Daleks hovering down from the sphere...led by yaaaaaaaaaaay, THE BLACK DALEK....has got to be the scene of the year for this season. I think it's fair to say that the UK was a nation divided last night - half moping over the world cup loss, the other half of us celebrating the return of the Daleks. Isn't it also stunning how this was kept spoiler free from the press ? There were rumors, yeah there always are, most of them are down to wishful thinking or fanboy wet dreams....but in retrospect, look at how expertly the BBC handled this. They let slip early that the Cybermen were back. Then came the stunning announcement that Billie Piper was leaving, nicely decoying attention away from the huge geekgasmic surprise that was to come. The U.S. networks could learn a few things from this...even in the age of the information superhighway, secrets CAN be kept. Okaaay so the good - everything, Ghostbusters, Torchwood, Cybermen EVERYWHERE - including bedrooms, Daleks, THE BLACK DALEK (You'd have had to be around in the sixties to appreciate the Black Dalek - he's a pre-Davros badass.) The bad - NOTHING. Russell, my hat (or more accurately, my baseball cap)'s off to you in reverence. Looking to next week, this is going off the geek-coolness chart from what we see in the trailer. I mean, holy crap....Rose berating a Dalek for killing someone (we don't know who) ROSE: "You didn't have to kill him" DALEK (Swivelling eye stalk toward her): "Neither did we need him alive". It's gonna be a loooong week, waiting for this to come round.

  • July 2, 2006, 4:26 a.m. CST

    oh my god...

    by Strabo

    That fucking rocked. That was exactly what we needed after the last couple of crappy episodes. The pacing was a bit slow through the middle half of the episode, but that ending was incredible. Now...as far as the resolution goes... SPOILERS AHEAD: one of the people rumored as the next companion is Freema Agyeman, except the Doctor killed her. Perhaps that means Rose's death will be as impermanent? END SPOILERS. Oh, before I go...favorite quote: They can shoot me dead, but the moral high ground is mine!

  • July 2, 2006, 4:55 a.m. CST

    That was... fantastic!

    by DrLektor

    Practically perfect in every way.

  • July 2, 2006, 5:02 a.m. CST

    A fan-boy's wet dream!

    by Johnny Wishbone

    Daleks AND Cybermen. Now we know why the last two episodes were poor in comparisson. They had to blow the budget on paying Terry Nation's estate... AGAIN!

  • July 2, 2006, 5:44 a.m. CST

    I just wish...

    by Porco_Rosso

    ...that the acting was a bit better. It seems I've spent half my life seeing people being led to their death: "Ted?" "This isn't funny, Ted!" "Where have you gone?" "AAAAAAAAAA-CRIKEY!" Raj the scientist, in fact all of Torchwood, handed in terrible performances. Maybe it's because as a Brit, I'm too used to Americans in a sci-fi setting, but American actors always seem to truely belive whatever fantasy setting they're in. The only exception recently was the last doctor, for despite moments of forced wackiness there was also a seriousness to him that made you believe the monster of the week was a threat.

  • July 2, 2006, 5:49 a.m. CST

    RTD is a genius

    by emeraldboy

    Last year he re-introduced the daleks in what was for me, the greatest Sci-fi event of last year. This year he re-introduced the Cybermen. Right at the beginning of the new series of Dr with Chris Eccelston, the war story was hinted at and then dropped. Enter the new dr, david tennant and the war story was re-introduced in the episode with queen victoria, her private house was called torchwood. and she ordered her chief scientist to draw up plans for torchwood institute to protect her planets borders and banished the doctor and rose. But to have a war between the daleks and the cybermen and Earth, is a masterstroke. I am guessing that the genesis arc will form the story arc Series three. I cant wait for next weeks outstanding finale. Drool........

  • July 2, 2006, 6:10 a.m. CST

    That was so good.

    by ROBE

    RTD all is forgiven unless you mess up next week.

  • July 2, 2006, 7:26 a.m. CST

    Cpt. Jack

    by Rain_Dog

    If John Barrowman is playing Captain Jack in the Torchwood spin-off, which I understand to be set in the present day, shouldn't he be in this episode? Is his association with the Doctor going to go completely unmentioned?

  • July 2, 2006, 7:35 a.m. CST

    Why are these Dr Who 'reviews' always...

    by Barney Hood

    ...line by line descriptions of what heppened during any given episode?

  • July 2, 2006, 7:40 a.m. CST

    Quite Good (and one person who LIKED Love & Monsters!)

    by WiseJoeyD

    This series of Dr Who I've found I need a repeat Sunday evening viewing to really "get" each episode. I'm perhaps still used to the comparitively 'dark' episodes last year but there sems to be a lighter tone to this series that takes me a while to get into... Anyway, watched it with a complete Who-hater (screams "DELETE DELETE!" to annoy me with that, admittedly ridiculous, Cybermen "catchprhase"!) and him and me both didn't like random indian scientist #1 whose acting was... "interesting". Aside from that niggle I enjoyed it and he was "meh". But as I said, repeat viewing is needed (missed the first few minutes too!) Considering this is the story after his L&M effort, people are fondly recalling that episode as an "abomination". I missed L&M when it was shown and then didn't want to see it for all the stick it got. Took the plunge and torrented it and.... loved it. I was truly shocked at how people here and everywehre lept on the bandwagon to decry it. I showed it to family and they liked it. Also one of the few episodes this series I enjoyed seeing it for the first time. Just can't get my head around why it's meant to be the low of Doctor Who? Surely that'd be Idiot's Lantern (crappy cackling tv entity; if my Who-hater friend saw that he'd never let me hear the end of it!)or School Reunion? Incidentally, I heard RTD wrote the only good bit of Schol Reunion; the bit at the end in the TARDIS. I think this was mentioned on DrWho Confidential that he did a rewrite. On the whole I've always liked RTD's stories and as i've pointed out, other writers are capable of making an even bigger balls-up of an episode than he ever has. Anyway looking forward to next week; The Wrath Of Khan-esque "Genesis" machine they were wheeling about in the trailer looked very itneresting and I look forward to seeing how Rose snuffs it.

  • July 2, 2006, 7:45 a.m. CST

    Speaking of Wrath of Khan..

    by WiseJoeyD

    Anyone reminded of the bit with Chekov's brian leech when the Torchwood controller pulled out the earpiece and half the woman's brain came out?! Also just to add, can't wait to see this Doctor's reaction to the Daleks. Will he go a bit mental, like his previous incarnation, at the thought the Dalek's really did survive the Time War?

  • July 2, 2006, 7:48 a.m. CST

    Captain Jack

    by ROBE

    I believe Captain Jack joins Torchwood after Doomsday. Lets be honest it looks like Torchwood will have lots of job vacances after the Daleks and Cybermen show up. Torchwood moves to a nuclear bunker under the Cardiff rift.

  • July 2, 2006, 7:53 a.m. CST

    Rose won't die

    by performingmonkey

    Of course, I don't know that for sure, but the fact that she narrates about her own death at the beginning proves she's alive at that point. They wouldn't do a from beyond the grave voiceover. My guess is she gets stuck in the alt-universe with Jackie and Pete to live happily ever after. This is how they'll get away with her not appearing in the series any more - the Doctor won't bump into her in 21st Century London (which you can guarantee will still be the base of future series). This was a good episode, mostly. The best part was the 'ghosts' turning into Cybermen, which surprisingly I DIDN'T second-guess beforehand!!!

  • July 2, 2006, 8:27 a.m. CST

    Won't these Daleks

    by RMcD3

    Turn out to be the alternate universe's Daleks, not the ones destroyed in the Time War? I liked the fact that they seem to be different colours now, like in the old days

  • July 2, 2006, 8:28 a.m. CST

    Also

    by RMcD3

    Regarding Rose's death, she did say something to the effect of 'this is the story of how I died'

  • July 2, 2006, 8:31 a.m. CST

    At Last, An Ep I Could Get Behind!

    by Kubla_Khan

    Y'all know I've been an outspoken critic of this season, but I have to say, credit where credit's due. Very few groaner moments and the production design, performances and direction were really very good indeed. When they get it right, they really get it right, but only so far this ep and the devil two-parter have felt like real Who to me. Btw, love those 3d glasses. If Rose dies, one thing I have to ask: Please don't let Mickey be the new companion. Or indeed, anyone we've seen yet...what about Salma Jayek?

  • July 2, 2006, 8:41 a.m. CST

    Forget Cybermen & Daleks: last night Dirty Den returned

    by taxman2001

    "Get back to the cellar Den"!! LMAO. Oh Barbara Windsor you certainly can act LOL. All this and freaking Trisha "available to appear in any cult tv/film i.e. Shaun Of The Dead and spoof myself" Goddard and Derek "and here's my spirit guide Sam" Acorah. Brilliant.

  • July 2, 2006, 8:58 a.m. CST

    hurry up torrent - damn you!!!

    by ComputerGuy68

  • July 2, 2006, 9:52 a.m. CST

    Look for the last time....

    by emeraldboy

    Dr who was never about acting. The only character that scared me was the green slug like guy and i cant remember his name. but that noise he made by vibrating his tongue off the top of his mouth was rhe scariest thing since, you first saw the face of the half/human dalek leader.......

  • July 2, 2006, 10:04 a.m. CST

    Look for the last time.....Post II

    by emeraldboy

    Because, dr who in the early years had a miniscule budget the creatures they came up with really did test the creative imagination of the efx people, theres was Micheal Rod as the Noodle man. The creatures that came out of the sea etc, the devil doll, the carnivourous black plastic furniture, those big tentacled flying creatures that attacked the estate and i could on. The bigger the production values on dr who, means that shows with a lesser budget look cheap. Dr was never about acting but more about the make-up and effects. Parental groups mean that the bbc has to show dr at tea time and that means taking out things that are too scary for young children.

  • July 2, 2006, 10:33 a.m. CST

    I think performingmonkey's right

    by supertoyslast

    Voiceover from beyond the grave doesn't seem like a Doctor Who kind of thing. I also doubt it's another "in the eventuality my death" speech. I think it's "this is the story of how I *died* ". As in Rose Tyler disappears from this world and the official explanation is that she died. But really she has gone to live in alt universe with Jackie, Pete and (hopefully) Mickey. This makes sense because the alt universe Jackie is dead and we know that Pete is in the next episode. I just pray to god that Mickey or that Blue Peter guy doesn't become the next companion. I was really hoping that the papers were right that Freema Agyeman would be the next companion - but then they killed her. She did a good job in her brief scenes. She was also damn hot - which doesn't hurt.

  • July 2, 2006, 11:05 a.m. CST

    This is the second time the Daleks and Cybermen fought

    by Filmrage

    When i was a kid I remember Dr Who where there was an intergalactic war between the Daleks and the Cybermen but hey both used pure logic so were at a stale mate for years so in desperation one of them captured the Doctor to unfuse some of his whacky humonoid illogical thinking in order to break the stalemate. . . . . . . Emeraldboy you just brought back some memories. One of the most horrific deaths on Dr Who when i was a kid in the seventies was the rubber couch alien that ate the guy when he sat on it. I could never remember if that was Dr Who or Blake's Seven. Other faves of mine are the robot that grew to the size of a skyscraper, big ugly assed dome head guys, spaghetti guy who shot out tentacles for twenty meteres to capture a human, bit spiders. Of course nothing comes even close to the Daleks, not then, not now , not ever. . . . . . . i just pray that these Daleks dont suffer the same fate as the last one and end up navel gazing and deciding that knacking the universe is pointless. . . . . . . by the way, the Daleks shout 'Exterminate' but that is not their goal so they are in in conflict of purpose with the cybermen. The Daleks just exterminate when they are dissobyed or opposed, their goal is universal enslavement.

  • July 2, 2006, 11:25 a.m. CST

    Any idea when the canadian DVD release will be?

    by Logo Lou

    I bought the last seasons Region 1 from canada since it was out first, I assume it will be the same this time?

  • July 2, 2006, 11:31 a.m. CST

    Next weeks preview sweetness

    by Filmrage

    Oh man i just had a re watch with much pausing of the preview of next weeks final episode. . . . . The Daleks design is so great. Really true to the feel of the seventies but with upgraded materials look and feel. they are really clunky looking but stil high tech and nasty. They have some nice looking retro tech with them too. Some kind of plasma glass dalek and also something calle 'The Genesis arc' which i'm guessing contains the seeds for a new population of Daleks. there is also a nice scene with the Daleks and a few dead Cybermen on the ground around them hehe. also a stand off between a platoon of Cybermen and a hand full of Daleks. . . . . Hmmmmm what would the anthrapological name be for a collection of Daleks??? My vote is for 'a strangle of Daleks'. ;) . . . any other suggestions?

  • July 2, 2006, 11:37 a.m. CST

    I suspect..

    by EyeofPolyphemus

    Alternate Pete is the one the Daleks kill. The new companion must be the Alt version of Adeola, since "our" version was killed. I have faer Rose is going to be a deus ex machina just like last year, return everything to normal, but someone but completely alternated by it. You know--no longer Rose. RTD did say the door was open for her return. her "death, I think, is the death of her old self. Pure speculation, of course.

  • July 2, 2006, 11:37 a.m. CST

    The only thing I didn't like..

    by VoodooV

    was how Torchwood's 'basic psychic training for all staff' defeated Doctor Who's psychic paper. That was a bit weak. I would have much rather they had one of the scientists ask Rose some super technical question and have her fake her way through it like the christmas special....give me some funny Rose! :)

  • July 2, 2006, 11:41 a.m. CST

    Other Earth

    by jthere

    Since the Daleks are apparently intact on this alternative Earth, I wonder if the Time Lords are likely around as well. Maybe another manifestation of the Doctor is also present. A Tennant/Eccleston team-up would be an interesting turn of events. As to how Rose exits the series, I sort of like the suggestion that she and her mother will move to the Earth with Pete and Mickey. Everyone would be on standby in case future contract negotiations warrant.

  • July 2, 2006, 11:45 a.m. CST

    You can just imagine those black and white images

    by emeraldboy

    of the very first dalek episode of the sixties. The daleks climbing slowly out of the water and saying ex-terminate in those germanic accident. that really must have scarifying at them. bearing in mind that England and indeed Ireland was bombed during WW2. You didnt know Ireland was bombed during WW2 did you? Well neither did i until recently. A luftwaffe bombed part of the north dublin inner city and killed 300 people. We didnt call it the war in Ireland we called it the emergency. ANd just so you know from now on Ireland has two names Eire-ireland. thanks a bunch EU. whats next scotland-england, wales-england.

  • July 2, 2006, 12:19 p.m. CST

    Daleks not from alternate universe

    by 13th Doctor

    They were "between" universes in the orb, avoiding the time war.

  • July 2, 2006, 12:32 p.m. CST

    Yes, they're different Daleks

    by performingmonkey

    They survived because, as the Doctor said, being inside that Void Ship would protect them from ANYTHING. My guess is that these Daleks were given the mission of rebuilding the race - hence the 'Genesis Ark' (whatever that is. Davros?........).

  • July 2, 2006, 12:45 p.m. CST

    This is the second time the Daleks and Cybermen fought

    by Mr Cairo

    your mixing up your enemies there m8 it wasnt the cybermen in that episode it was the movellans that kidnapped the doctor to help break the stalemate with the Daleks(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movellans).

  • July 2, 2006, 12:46 p.m. CST

    My comment above was for Filmrage

    by Mr Cairo

    this thing desperatly needs an Edit or quote option FFS :(

  • July 2, 2006, 12:48 p.m. CST

    Barney Hood my reasons for recapping..

    by Kelvington

    I agree I (and others) do a line for line recap of the episode and through in a few lines of review here and there. The reason I do it, is for the people in the States who won't get to see the show for a year, and don't download it on a torrent, I try to give them a feel for what the episode is like. I only do this on Doctor Who, and no other shows I review. But your point is well taken.

  • July 2, 2006, 1:13 p.m. CST

    they are the original Daleks!!!

    by 13th Doctor

    Not from the Cybermen reality but from "ours". The black Dalek (the leader)and the Genesis Ark (the creator) was hidden from the Time War in the Void. The Daleks from last year were not apart of the original species with the Emperor and the human harvesting and what not. This year's (i believe) are the classic Daleks.

  • July 2, 2006, 1:25 p.m. CST

    But will the Time Lords return now?

    by lynxpro

    That would be one way to defeat the combined efforts of the Daleks and the Cybermen. The Time Lords return from their hiding, explaining the ruse that they waited for the Daleks to return to reveal themselves. That would be awesome. A Time Lord army. I hope the soliders would look like futuristic Romans in armor similar to the Senatorial Guards from *Star Wars Episode 1* and the Time Lord High Council members would be dressed in robes similar to the stolen Time Lord robe that The Master wore (which was actually The Doctor's robe) last in the TVM. And will Rose regenerate? Was that not foreshadowing of her mother taking about how she would no longer be human and that she looked like The Doctor?

  • July 2, 2006, 1:28 p.m. CST

    Why the fuck is there never a 4400 or Entourage TB?

    by nalapou

    Shit. There are like 3 good shows on this summer and there arn't even TB's for them.

  • July 2, 2006, 1:51 p.m. CST

    Torchwood

    by der kaiser

    Has anyone noticed Torchwood is an anagram of Doctor Who. BTW this episode rocked a PHAT ONE. MAde up for england losing.

  • July 2, 2006, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Nostalgic sights & sounds, oh and Emeraldboy....

    by RobinP

    The first was the Cybermen slashing their way through the plastic sheeting exactly like their entrance in "Tomb of the Cybermen" and on the current TARDISODE - a Dalek voice saying "We are the masters of earth". Word for word what they said back in Hartnell's day, his secon run-in with the Daleks ("The Dalek Invasion of Earth".) Now Emeraldboy got me thinking with his reminder of that adventure, where the Dalek comes up out of the Thames. Could this be that SAME INVASION ???? Could it have started with Tennant and finished several years later with Hartnell ????? Now THERE's a thought.

  • July 2, 2006, 2:13 p.m. CST

    The UNIT/Torchwood paradox - explained

    by RobinP

    I never understood how The Doctor could work for years with UNIT, while being on Torchwood's most wanted list. RTD cleared this up on confidential last night by referencing that the FBI & CIA seldom know what each other are up to. Fair enough then....

  • July 2, 2006, 2:15 p.m. CST

    Touchwood

    by MachineHead

    dont know if this has already been mentioned, by my sister in law works for BBC Cardiff, and she told me no Touchwood characters (those from the Touchwood show itself) are gonna be allowed to crossover into DW, becuase of the fact that Torchwood is aimed at Adults and will air after the UK watershed

  • July 2, 2006, 2:33 p.m. CST

    when will torchwood the spin off be shown on the bbc?

    by emeraldboy

    Does anyone know?

  • July 2, 2006, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Thank's MR Cairo

    by Filmrage

    Ah i guess the old memory isn't that good. Well it was a long time ago. . . . . so what about the rubber alien couch, what episode was that in then?

  • July 2, 2006, 2:56 p.m. CST

    Black Daleks

    by DarthFloyd

    Weren't there two Races of Daleks continually at war with each other? We saw them clash in Rememberacne of the Daleks, would it not make sense that if the 'Imperial' Daleks were wiped out in the Time War, that the 'Rebel' Daleks would have stayed out of it and picked off the survivors?

  • July 2, 2006, 3:01 p.m. CST

    The Genesis casket...?!

    by Fugazi32

    ...is probably Davros no doubt?

  • July 2, 2006, 3:09 p.m. CST

    Awesome episode...

    by ZeroCorpse

    I'd have paid to see it. We need a Doctor Who feature film based on the current series- One that IS canon and doesn't take liberties like the previous films.

  • July 2, 2006, 3:32 p.m. CST

    I'd LOVE Davros to make a come-back...

    by Porco_Rosso

    ...but RTD said last year that he liked the Daleks before Davros appeared, because then they became merely his henchmen. Still, we can dream!

  • July 2, 2006, 3:48 p.m. CST

    i highly doubt

    by aestheticity

    that the casket contains davros. it would be the strongest example of who continuity in a revamped series that shies away from continuity with older series. my guess is its empty, and theyve come for what goes in it. possibly rose, or some gadget.

  • July 2, 2006, 4:59 p.m. CST

    Scully?

    by AngelinasOilBoy

    Sorry, but she doesn't look ANYTHING like Gillian Anderson - then or now - although I would like to hump her jugs...

  • July 2, 2006, 5:13 p.m. CST

    Davros

    by emeraldboy

    Although i wouldnt rule it out. didnt the daleks build an emeporor dalek. In the last season, it was hinted that daleks had a war between themselves and all the unpure daleks were killed. it did have religious connataitions. So the newly pured Daleks built an emperor Dalek. There is a line in next weeks ep saying that they and cybermen could rule the universe. I doubt these daleks would have any use for half human one. By the way 24 hrs just ended on sky tonight and all i can say what A MOTHERFUKING ENDING THAT WAS. The next season will have the chinese as the enemy. the will use jack to blackmail the us govt, possibly using him as double agent. It was nice to see that they didnt completely kill of agent pierce. Wow none the less. Will Chloes ex-hubby be back next season?

  • July 2, 2006, 5:40 p.m. CST

    Daleks are so fucking awesome.

    by Filmrage

    Two episodes are way not enough to dwell on the awsomeness of the Daleks. The nasty little bastards need a whole series. . . . . i totally love the Daleks and usually route for them. It's been a dream of mine to have a real Dalek since i was a kid.

  • July 2, 2006, 6:15 p.m. CST

    RESCUE ME seasons 1&2 $20 this week at Target!!!

    by Shermdawg

    Sorry for crashing this talkback with that, but, HERC's dvd column ain't up yet, and by then, they'd probably be sold out. Also, OVER THERE is on sale for $15 over at Best Buy!!!

  • July 2, 2006, 7 p.m. CST

    Machinehead

    by Bad Wolff

    Your info is wrong, buddy. Torchwood characters by necessity must cross over with Doctor Who, as the main character on Torchwood is Captain Jack who appeared in the first series, and is confirmed to return in some fashion to Who in series 3.

  • July 2, 2006, 7:48 p.m. CST

    Torchwood/Doctor Who anagram

    by jthere

    In an interview with BBC Wales, Russell Davies revealed that videos of the new Doctor Who series were labelled "Torchwood" -- an anagram -- in order to lessen the risk that the new episodes would be pirated before airing.

  • July 2, 2006, 8:22 p.m. CST

    The other universe's Adeola was turned into a Cyberman.

    by SpacePhil

    Remember the one Cyberman the Doctor managed to stop and talk to in "Age of Steel"? The one who was going to be married to a "Gareth" before she died? Yeah. I thought that was great. On the other hand, it's too bad she isn't going to be a companion. That actress - Freema Agyeman, was it? - is smoking with a capital HOT.

  • July 2, 2006, 9:19 p.m. CST

    SpacePhil

    by Strabo

    To test your assertion, I just loaded up my divx of Age of Steel. The Cyber(wo)man opened up by the Doctor said her name was Sally Freeman. Having a significant other named Gareth is, apparently, just a coincidence. Also, put me down for a vote on Rose not actually dying, but staying (or perhaps getting stuck) in the other dimension (or even better yet, she doesn't die, she gets trapped in the Void Ship and gets stuck in the void, perhaps with the cybermen and daleks! ooh, I like that idea). Also, they showed Rose's father, Peter, in the preview...I wonder if he'll run into this verse's Jackie? That should be an interesting reunion. Oh, I saw an earlier post about movies for Doctor Who, and their canonical status...there have been two Doctor Who movies, to my knowledge. The Peter Cushing movie, and the Fox TV movie with Paul McGann. The Peter Cushing "Daleks' Invasion Earth" movie is non-canon. The Paul McGann movie IS canon. Oh, one more thing. It's not exactly a canonical source, but TVRage lists Terry Molloy as Davros in the next episode in their episode guy. There's no source listed, but I'm going to assume that they aren't just making things up. IMDb does not corroborate currently. Put me down for another vote for Davros is in the Genesis Pod.

  • July 2, 2006, 9:21 p.m. CST

    errm...

    by Strabo

    Episode guide, not guy. That's all. Hey, uh, AICN people, how about adding an Edit feature to posts? Some HTML/BBCode markups would be nice too. You know, line breaks, italics, bolds, URLs, maybe? Please?

  • July 2, 2006, 9:35 p.m. CST

    Strabo

    by Bad Wolff

    There were two movies in the sixties with Peter Cushing as the Doctor against the Daleks. Neither is canon. Also, I wouldn't regard TVRage as any more credible than IMDb, that is to say, not very. ;)

  • July 2, 2006, 11:12 p.m. CST

    How to beat TomBodet & other questions

    by SpyGuy

    HOW TO BEAT TOMBODET -- 1: Chase Tom through door and up a flight of stairs; 2: Stop and watch as Dalek hovering above staircase exterminates his ignorant ass; Captain Jack was originally planned to return in Series 3, but is now appearing on the TORCHWOOD spinoff so he isn't planning to come back to DOCTOR WHO; The Cushing films, not canon...The McGann film, canon; and lastly, Hartnell's "The Dalek Invasion of Earth" was set in 2164, so this is obviously not the same invasion. Now here's a question of mine: Does anyone know the title of the 2006 Christmas Special yet? Hopefully, it's not "A Christmas Kroton" or "Have Yourself a Mara Little Christmas" or some fucked-up shit like that...

  • July 2, 2006, 11:16 p.m. CST

    If its a Christmas Kroton...

    by Bad Wolff

    ...Im so there! They've been a little vague on Capt. Jack in series 3, but they haven't withdrawn the original announcement. You could be right, but I think he's still going to be in. ;)

  • July 2, 2006, 11:52 p.m. CST

    filmrage - The Plastic Chair

    by thethedew

    The plastic chair that smothered anyone sitting on it was a Nestine-powered monster, from 'Terror of the Autons', first ep of Pertwee's 2nd Season, also The Master's introductory story. "I am usually referred to as The Master - universally."

  • July 2, 2006, 11:54 p.m. CST

    Cybermen + Daleks...

    by ZeroCorpse

    What the Cyberman says in the trailer for next week is, "Cybermen plus Daleks; Together we could upgrade the universe." --- This does not mean the Daleks would accept the offer, especially since the Daleks have NO interest in "upgrading" the universe, but instead are rather keen on conquering the universe and exterminating all non-Dalek life forms. I predict a big battle between Daleks and Cyberman AFTER the offer is made. --- Wouldn't it be great if RTD pulled some other standard enemies from the past into the next episode, to really spice things up? Even better, how about another Time Lord showing up? The Master, The Rani, Romana... Maybe even Ace, the "Time Vigilante" could show up... I'm stoked. RTD has shown us that anything can happen in the Whoniverse. I love this new series!!!

  • July 3, 2006, 1:32 a.m. CST

    ZeroCorpse, Daleks, SciFi Channel mutterings

    by lynxpro

    I'd rather see Bruce Campbell guest star as an older Abslom Daak who would teach those Daleks a final lesson with his trusty chainsword. SciFi Channel, are you listening? Instead of your usual krap films, script an adventure with Campbell starring as Abslom Daak. You could have it take place along side the *Doctor Who* series or you could have it separate as long as you licensed the rights to the Daleks from the Nation Estate and Abslom Daak from Marvel Comics. *Alien Apocalypse* could serve as a template for the flick.

  • July 3, 2006, 1:54 a.m. CST

    Deja Vu anyone?

    by RedKang

    Maybe I

  • July 3, 2006, 3:09 a.m. CST

    Dr Who films canon status & is this THE invasion ?

    by RobinP

    Strictly speaking, the canon status of the 2 Peter Cushing films from the sixties is a grey area. No - they don't represent the series continuity and within the continuity of the series, Peter Cushing was never an official doctor. HOWEVER - and this is where it gets a little murky, those movies were quick adaptations of the Doctor's first 2 Dalek story arcs, the selling point being they were in colour and in cinemascope. So no, Peter Cushing wasn't a Doctor in the true sense of the tv series, but yes, within the world of the tv series, the events happened an the movies were just a retelling. You figure it out. Being just a little on the young side to remember the tv transmissions, I never understood how the Daleks were supposed to be scarey. Admittedly, tv audiences were less sophisticated back then but judging from the movies they just weren't particularly terrifying. A few years ago, I managed to get tapes of those 2 stories in their original William Hartnell, grainy, black and white glory and was stunned at how child un-friendly the Daleks were originally, especially in comparison with the films. I'd urge anybody with an interest to go look for the originals. So....is this the invasion that William Hartnell foiled in the 1964 story arc ? Uh...no idea !! I mentioned somewhere above that it'd be cool if it was.....and it would be. Remember that second invasion story was set in 2165. As far as I'm aware, that was the date the Doctor landed and saved the day, NOT the date the Daleks took over and started mining. Just a few thoughts to set the cat among the pigeons. Oh, and Bruce Campbell as Abslom Dakk ??? It'll never happen. I can't see the BBC licencing a Marvel comics character for tv transmission on their flagship. Just can't see it happening.

  • July 3, 2006, 3:41 a.m. CST

    Zerocorpse-

    by Bad Wolff

    Ha! The return of "Times Vigilante" would be great! I wonder if the Doc is still her champion... ;) Oh, and RobinP, the Invasion of Earth in the 22nd century by the Daleks lasted for less than a decade, so what you're seeing now is not the same invasion. It's referenced that the Dalek's hadn't occupied for long when the Doc and gang arrive in the Hartnel story...

  • July 3, 2006, 4:24 a.m. CST

    Re: Genesis Arc

    by Johnny Wishbone

    My theory is that the Genesis Arc was already at Torchwood and the Daleks used the void ship to punch through into our reality to capture it and create a new army. I must admit, the prospect of Cybermen offering Daleks humanoid bodies for their mutant brains would be quite compelling. Don't like the Cybermen's guns though.

  • July 3, 2006, 5:58 a.m. CST

    Re: Genesis Arc

    by WiseJoeyD

    Johnny wishbone; the Arc was in the void ship all along. You can see it, (though obscured somewhat) descending behind the Daleks. (and see RedKang reiterating L&M hate; I just don't get it, it was a good episode!) ZeroCorpse; yeah, defiantely think the preview only showed the Cybers making the offer and we'll see the black Dalek refuse it. (wonder if there's a Kevin Smith-esque diabtribe about racism to be made about the "evil" black Dalek!??!)

  • July 3, 2006, 7:03 a.m. CST

    Good, good stuff

    by board shitlez

    especially torchwood refusing to go metric. However, the first shot of them did make the place look like a branch of Argos.

  • July 3, 2006, 7:14 a.m. CST

    Johnny Fishbone

    by The Awfulism

    Many years from now, Johnny Wishbone and The Awfulism - now great friends

  • July 3, 2006, 8:55 a.m. CST

    MR Cairo+Filmrage re:Daleks&Cybermen

    by Wyrdy the Gerbil

    Some of the confusion over wether theres been a Dr Who story where Daleks&Cybermen have fought each other might come from one of the episode where one of the Doctor`s tells his companion there were huges fleets of Dalek&Cybermen ships battling each other for control of the galaxy....unfortunately i cant remember which episode or Doctor but i think it might have been one of the later one`s

  • July 3, 2006, 9:20 a.m. CST

    ok, I'm sorry, but I have to...

    by Strabo

    ARK != ARC. An arc is a segment of a circle, or, a series of related episodes in a narrative. An ark is a shelter, or refuge. Noah's ARK. Genesis ARK. Story ARC.

  • July 3, 2006, 9:40 a.m. CST

    Newx series' classic monster revival

    by ElPaw

    Bertie Basset :(

  • July 3, 2006, 10:13 a.m. CST

    Strabo - cheers, you're right.

    by SpacePhil

    That was Sally something. I still rather hope it isn't a coincidence. Anyway, I don't get the hate for NewWho on this channel. Yeah, maybe the writing wasn't up to last season's standards, but I still think it's pretty good.

  • July 3, 2006, 10:34 a.m. CST

    RE: ok, I'm sorry, but I have to...

    by Johnny Wishbone

    Electric ARC.

  • July 3, 2006, 11:08 a.m. CST

    RobinP

    by lynxpro

    In regards to Daak, I suggested the SciFi Channel license him from Marvel and then take a Dalek license out from the Nation Estate. That would be separate from the BBC. But as for the BBC, we've seen "Big Brother", "What Not to Wear", and "The Weakest Link" appear on their flagship show. Food for thought.

  • July 3, 2006, 11:48 a.m. CST

    For Emeraldboy

    by TGirl Jerri

    The character your talking about was Sil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sil_%28Doctor_Who%29

  • July 3, 2006, 11:53 a.m. CST

    Gillian Anderson???

    by jccalhoun

    The guy that said the woman in Torchwood looked like Gillian Anderson must have cataracts. She didn't look anything like Anderson. Can't wait to see next week's episode. Should be a good one!

  • July 3, 2006, 12:08 p.m. CST

    Cybermen

    by RumpleWho

    I have slight, slight problem with the concept of this version of the Cybermen taking over the world. Firstly, their level of tech would be maybe 20 years ahead of ours, maybe. I seriously doubt they could withstand a 55 calibre rifle attact, much less an EMP or several other means of attack at our disposal. There would be significant loss of life, but its not like T2 with the flying ships and the like, its clanking metal men with what looks like high voltage tasers.

  • July 3, 2006, 12:51 p.m. CST

    RumpleWho

    by INWOsuxRED

    These Cybermen are already EVERYWHERE. They are in overwhelming numbers everywhere on the planet, and they were not expected. In homes, public places, private buildings, media stations, and no doubt every military installation in the world. There is no time and no place to plan or organize any type of resistance. A few random people with effective weapons aren't much of a match for thousands of cybermen shooting at them. As the Doctor said, it is too late for it to even be called an invasion.

  • July 3, 2006, 12:53 p.m. CST

    Porco_Rosso

    by INWOsuxRED

    Davros usually winds up being a hostage of the Daleks at some point. They stop listening to him, and sometimes kill him. They are never his hentchmen, not that I would expect RTD to be able to figure that out.

  • July 3, 2006, 1 p.m. CST

    Good and bad

    by INWOsuxRED

    I really hated the last two episodes, so this one was a major improvement. It actually had the Doctor as a focal point! I was struck by RTD's statement on Confidential that this plot for the finale is basically what an 8 year old would think up. I don't think anyone should brag that they are writing TV shows like an 8 year old. So, imo, an all out Cybermen/Dalek "war" isn't Doctor Who. I'll be glad if it is good, but it feels like a cheap Star Trek gimmic. Doctor Who walking out to face a bunch of guys with guns and claiming the moral high-ground and goofing around with 3-D glasses IS Who though. I can't help but have the horrible feeling that this story will end with the same horrible pressing of a magic reset button that they had last season, especially if Rose is narrating "from the dead" and the supposed next companion died early in the episode.

  • July 3, 2006, 1:25 p.m. CST

    inwosuxred

    by aestheticity

    did rtd really say that? man, he is such a turd. i fear exactly the same, that the resolution will be a total crap out like last series, in which case, ill be pissed off.

  • July 3, 2006, 1:44 p.m. CST

    aestheticity

    by INWOsuxRED

    I found this week's confidential on mininova. RTD says...(something I can't quite make out about bringing back the cybermen), "we've got the daleks, I think thats exactly what an 8 year old would do in their head." If you don't mind that half of it is a Torchwood commercial, you can see for yourself. Right about 5 minutes into it. I really hope that the resolution episode(s) are about working towards a clear, systematic and logical resolution to the massive amount of problems that were built upon fairly well in the Ghosts episode, but I have my fears.

  • July 3, 2006, 2:16 p.m. CST

    Jesus, people!

    by Bad Wolff

    Doctor Who IS written for 8 year olds! It's written so that adults can enjoy it too, but it's really time to just accept that it is, at heart, a show aimed at children! If you persist in hating that, than stop watching! As Torchwood is a SPINOFF or Doctor Who, these episodes aren't so much a commercial for Torchwood as... well, setting up the SPINOFF! For Christ's sake, I don't understand why you people would keep watching if you hate what RTD is doing so much, let alone posting! Go back to your Stargate: Voyager! ;)

  • July 3, 2006, 3:24 p.m. CST

    So what's the answer then ????????

    by Filmrage

    Ok come on then people. I've laie down the challenge no one has taken it up yet.. . . . we need a name for a group of Daleks. It needs to be something approriatly menacing, not squad or fleet or anything sober like that. . . . . . I like 'A strangle of Daleks'. Or 'A Rogue of Daleks'. Or 'A butcher of Daleks'. . . . . . . . any other suggestions.

  • July 3, 2006, 3:25 p.m. CST

    Dear Redkang...

    by Psynapse

    YES, you ARE blinded by an obsessive compulsive geek's need for fictional continuity to validate his existence. Jeezus CHRIST man........

  • July 3, 2006, 5:13 p.m. CST

    It's Genesis ARK

    by CrispyOne

    arks carry things. Arcs are curves.

  • July 3, 2006, 5:20 p.m. CST

    Bad Wolf

    by INWOsuxRED

    We aren't complaining that the show is written for a broad audience that includes 8 year olds(rather than a show about bi-sexual time travelers looking for ass or some nerd face fucking his girlfriend after she winds up being a bodyless head trapped in a brick). I like that Doctor Who is, or at least should be a family show, but it shouldn't be a stupid family show. A simple concept like Spider-Man's "with great power..." is aimed in part at teaching a lesson to kids, but it isn't a concept from a child. There is a huge difference between written TO INCLUDE and WRITTEN BY an 8 year old. I just get the feeling RTD just threw everything "cool" into the mix without putting thought into it, but maybe I'll feel differently next week. As for the complaint about the "Torchwood commercial", I was complaining about the most recent episode of Confidential which was about the Torchwood series(table reads, building the sets, the actors who appear to be exclusively on Torchwood, etc.) and not about how it is appearing in Who, and taking up time about the episode of Who that just aired, as is the standard practice. I have no problem with the way Torchwood appeared in the actual episode, and actually liked it more than not. I'll check out the Torchwood series as overall I like Captain Jack, and the Who universe in general. I don't have high hopes as it sounds like Russell just wanted an excuse to do Who with more crude humor, not smart and adult humor, just a few extra dirty jokes and sluttier characters. My prediction is Torchwood will be much more juvenile than either classic or relaunch Who. I think most Who fans are thinking the same thing.

  • July 3, 2006, 5:40 p.m. CST

    Filmrage...some suggested plurals for ya.

    by RobinP

    Logically, I guess a cluster of Daleks, but a gaggle of Daleks sounds good. A destruction of Daleks, a genocide of Daleks, a collective of Daleks, a hive of Daleks, a mass of Daleks, a milling of Daleks, a shitload of Daleks....phew. Over to you, buddy - I need to lie down.

  • July 3, 2006, 6:43 p.m. CST

    Torchwood

    by Real Deal

    I'm looking foward to it! A little more grown up. A little darker. And after watching Confidential I like the characters.

  • July 3, 2006, 7:10 p.m. CST

    Plurals...

    by 13th Doctor

    A Deluge of Daleks.. also like the Hive of Daleks (and the Shitload fo Daleks)

  • July 3, 2006, 7:35 p.m. CST

    Phalanx of Daleks

    by EyeofPolyphemus

    At least that is my suggestion, anyway. I haven't seen "Geneisis of the Daleks" in forever. Could someone more familiar speculate on whether the Genesis Ark might have a connection with the serial?

  • July 3, 2006, 7:36 p.m. CST

    INWOsuxRed....

    by Bad Wolff

    ..looks like we will have to part company on this. Your sticking to a quote from RTD not withstanding, I don't find the writing to be that of an 8 year old, I find it written to include them. I think you'll find that RTD, and surely many great writers out there, find simplicity in plotting very alluring. I think you'll find that's what he was getting at. What you haven't noticed, I think, is that what seems to be a rather fanwank idea, or one that would reside within the fantasies of an 8 year old, actually seems to be pulling off rather well. Your in the minority on that if you dissagree, just look through this talk back. It seems to be what everyone wants, the trick is doing it in a none fanwank fashion, and so far I'm very pleased. For more detail, we'll have to wait till next week. We'll certainly have to part company if you compare the writing of spiderman more favorably than this series. Doctor Who, and this new series are miles above the maturity of that. I think some people, maybe or maybe not you, just can't deal with the fact that this isn't a serious adult sci-fi drama, something that it will never and should never be. Maybe Torchwood will be more to those people's liking. As for this weeks confidential, as the is part one of a two parter, I'm sure most of us are quite happy to wait till next weeks to deal with the episode in question, as it is part one of what will continue next week. I for one was VERY happy to see some new stuff on Torchwood, something I'm very much looking forward to, and it would have been criminal for them not to have covered the development of this highly anticipated show on at least one episode of confidential. ;)

  • July 3, 2006, 7:37 p.m. CST

    Polyphemus...

    by Bad Wolff

    ... it does seem to be a clue, doesn't it? Some here have speculated that the Genesis Ark might contain Davros, linking it to the earlier serial. Personally, I doubt it, but we'll have to see next week. ;)

  • July 3, 2006, 9:35 p.m. CST

    The Cybermen and Daleks are NOT teaming up

    by Discosis

    The Cyberman told the Doctor that the sphere was not theirs and they just followed it through into our universe. They don't know it contains Daleks. From the shots of next week's ep seen on Confidential (I didn't watch the preview), it looks like the Daleks and Cybermen will be going up against each other with Torchwood, the Doctor and humanity in general caught in the crossfire.

  • July 3, 2006, 10:59 p.m. CST

    A Dalek Group?

    by Pogue__Mahone

    How about 'A Clusterfuck Of Daleks'? And for the record... as a whole I'm enjoying the new series. I've even gotten several friends into it - including my decidedly non geeky brother.

  • July 4, 2006, 12:46 a.m. CST

    group of daleks

    by aestheticity

    theyre 90 percent machine, so id call them a fleet. a fleet of daleks. especially since they can fly now. or, since theyre traditionally compared to pepperpots, what about a cruet of daleks?

  • July 4, 2006, 1:27 a.m. CST

    by Kenny8

    "Anyone reminded of the bit with Chekov's brian leech when the Torchwood controller pulled out the earpiece and half the woman's brain came out?!"

  • July 4, 2006, 4:24 a.m. CST

    The Cybermen and Daleks are NOT teaming up by Discosis

    by Mr Cairo

    but then in the coming next week bit you hear the cyberman say "cybermen plus daleks together we could upgrade the universe" so its a possability

  • July 4, 2006, 5:24 a.m. CST

    A swathe of Daleks . . . .

    by Filmrage

    Ok some of the plurals are good. I like Phalanx. But the plural for Daleks can't be just linguistically appropriate, it also has to be an appropriate adjective, something nasty to describe them.

  • July 4, 2006, 7:41 a.m. CST

    A scourge of Daleks?

    by RMcD3

  • July 4, 2006, 8 a.m. CST

    I think it should be a Flash-mob of Daleks

    by Kelvington

  • July 4, 2006, 9:23 a.m. CST

    New companion announced

    by harvest

    It's meant to be announced tomorrow, but the press release is already on their site http://tinyurl.com/elmrl

  • July 4, 2006, 11:20 a.m. CST

    Good Choice

    by 13th Doctor

    At least she's not playing the same character. VIVA LA MARTHA JONES

  • July 4, 2006, 11:43 a.m. CST

    So which Buffy episode is Doctor Who copying this week?

    by ForumFatale

    Can't wait to find out!

  • July 4, 2006, 2:01 p.m. CST

    ForumFatale

    by kwisatzhaderach

    That's right, I loved the episode of Buffy where the Daleks and the Cybermen fought each other. Buffy = 7 series, DEAD. Doctor Who = 28 series, ALIVE. Here endeth the lesson.

  • July 4, 2006, 3:29 p.m. CST

    Did you see what he did?

    by Bad Wolff

    He made fun of the production values on Doctor Who. So very witty. And original! Those wobbly sets and all....

  • July 4, 2006, 4:45 p.m. CST

    Always weird...

    by danowen

    ... when someone becomes a recurring character who was in the show as a guest star. I remember Colin Baker being in Dr Who before becoming the Time Lord. But I'm sure more than ONE episode had passed before he got the gig! Anyway, this new companion will be interesting. She's older than Billie and hopefully will play a more proactive and less naive role in adventures. I'm sure it's also just a matter of time before the obligatory FHM/GQ photoshoot, too...

  • July 4, 2006, 5:07 p.m. CST

    More than one dalek...

    by cosmicdolphins

    should be referred to as an ' Extermination ' of Daleks. As that's what will happen should you encounter them.

  • July 4, 2006, 5:07 p.m. CST

    Thanks, Harvest!

    by CrispyOne

    Cool scoop. Strange that ya gotta read these in the Talkbacks instead of on AICN proper. Harry should bump this to a real story. Anyway, thanks, Harvest.

  • July 4, 2006, 9:36 p.m. CST

    lynxpro, Rose regenerating?

    by Hairy Nutsack

    I've been wondering the same thing, will Rose regenerate when she "dies"? She absorbed all of space/time when she became the Bad Wolf, what if that made her timelord-ish?

  • July 4, 2006, 10:56 p.m. CST

    Where the Daleks came from

    by jthere

    When the void ship appeared to go from one world to the next, it was clearly not a creation of the known Doctor's world. In the commentary on the Cyberman it's stated quite clearly that they were following the ship from their reality to the current Doctor Who's reality (as were Mickey and his companions). If I were a Cylon who could build a void ship able to travel all sort of alterntive realities, and I disvovered an alternative Earth that had no cylons, I would want to change this. Hence, an "ark" carrying the means needed to repopulate the discovered universe. I don't see the Cybermen and Daleks united in any cause. As far as the Daleks are concerned, human-based Cybermen are competition to any machine dominated universe.

  • July 5, 2006, 1:07 a.m. CST

    The void ship

    by Bad Wolff

    Was a creation of the Doctor's Universe, that much has been made clear. It was used to temporarily leave space/time, presumably during the war, and now has returned. The Cybermen were able to detect it it the void, and have followed it into our Universe. ;)

  • July 5, 2006, 6:19 a.m. CST

    Doctor Who is just writing-by-numbers, cliched crap.

    by ForumFatale

    Buffy actually CHANGES AND SUBVERTS GENRES. Doctor Who merely complies with the set rules of tv. Look at the structure of any episode of Doctor Who (bar the episode which was directed copied off Storyteller) and you'll see it's just been overdone by a million other shows. And people wonder why it flopped in the US...

  • July 5, 2006, 6:55 a.m. CST

    ForumFatale =Troll

    by Wyrdy the Gerbil

    whatever o deluded one

  • July 5, 2006, 6:57 a.m. CST

    Double Dipping

    by David Frames

    If Rose rengerates I'll stop watching as a matter of principle.

  • July 5, 2006, 8:40 a.m. CST

    Forum Fatale

    by kwisatzhaderach

    Buffy is teen drivel. Doctor Who is a sci-fi classic. Buffy is DEAD. 43 years from now do you think people will be siting talking about Buffy, a 90's fad? Get over it. Doctor Who shits all over Buffy. And Whedon admitted he stle loads from Doctor Who anyway...a bad guy called The Master? I mean come on, get your facts right before you talk shit.

  • July 5, 2006, 8:43 a.m. CST

    Buffy changes and subverts genres...

    by kwisatzhaderach

    This is the funniest thing I heard all week. How did it change genres? Explain. Actually don't, I have no interest in some lesbians kissing and killing vampires. Terrible programme.

  • July 5, 2006, 2:34 p.m. CST

    "SpyGay"? So that was TomBodet at the gay pride parade

    by SpyGuy

    I mean, that's the only way he could have known about me...unless that was HIM dressed up like The Gimp from PULP FICTION. You said you'd never tell, you bitch!

  • July 5, 2006, 3:04 p.m. CST

    ForumFatale=dumb ass

    by Bad Wolff

    Either a racist jerk, judging by his postings on the other Who talkback, or more likely just a common troll.

  • July 5, 2006, 6:11 p.m. CST

    kwisatzhaderach....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    I have to take issue with you criticizing lesbian kisses. Willow and Kennedy....BOING!!

  • July 6, 2006, 8:55 a.m. CST

    If you're not racist, you're just ignorant of the truth

    by ForumFatale

    It's funny because it's true.

  • July 6, 2006, 10:14 a.m. CST

    ForumFatale

    by David Frames

    Its not funny...and not true either.

  • July 6, 2006, 1:24 p.m. CST

    ForumFatale is a nazi....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    Fuck you man, you're fucked up beyond all words. The truth is there are good people in every racial group and there are assholes in every racial group, you fit into the second group.

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