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SUPERMAN RETURNS Official TalkBack!
SPOILER ALERT !!
Hey folks, Harry here... I decided tonight would be a good night to go check out the last show of CARS with my fiancee - and whilst at the theater we saw the madness that was SUPERMAN RETURNS early bird shows. And let me tell you - they were wild. At one point, I come out of a stall - only to see a mid-fifties man in front of the mirror slapping water under his underarms and then pulling on a SUPERMAN t-shirt and a Batman Baseball cap. Not what I was expecting when I came out of the stall. But enough about my night - How did SUPERMAN play for you? Love it? Hate it? Liked it? Feel blah about it? Did they relaunch the character in a positive direction? Where would you go from here? What would be your dream next SUPERMAN film? Anything funny happen in line? What was the craziest thing you saw at your theater? Anyway - have fun - and remember talk about the experience, about the film and recognize that others have the capacity to disagree with you... and they're just as right as you are. Have at it...
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kidding. but he was OK.
Good overall, but man, are there not enough editors in Hollywood? That sucker coulda stood to lose about 20 minutes. Same as King Kong, LOTR, Star Wars and damned near every movie over 2 hours in the past five years.
The ending seemed very anticlimactic and meandering to many in the group i saw it with. I'm not sure. Any other thoughts on that part? -
My geek friend Fig Chrystie and I had this discussion on the way home from the picture: It's an absolutely note-perfect Superman film, but, in the end, it's a Superman film. And because of that, it's boring, in the end. But at no point were we bored while watching it, you're just left with the feeling that what you saw didn't amount to anything. Peter Parker could die. Daredevil could die. Superman? He simply can't die. Nothing's too big for him. But, as far as the filmmaking went, there is not a thing wrong with Returns. Go see it. But I doubt you'll want to see it again.
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Loved everything about it.
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They should have saved the whole Jason Lane subplot for a future film. This film should have been about his return, the world reacting to him being gone and returning, and Luthor's plot. The kid was too much too soon. Now any future Superman movie will have a subplot that has to deal Jason. I'm sorry, but I don't like it. And I'm not trying to be a fanboy purist, not at all, but it was just too soon.
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I really enjoyed the movie after
getting back earlier tonight from seening a 10PM screening in the IMAX where I live. I thought the 3D sequences seemed distracting to watch,especially the shuttle scene. There was so much going on that the 3D made it hard to focus on anything. It was strange at the end of the movie. The packed theater was totally silent as the people files out. -
As was the movie. Spacey really let me down. The story was bland and overall the movie was dissapointing on so many levels I don't know where to begin
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Just got back from seeing it. Oh that was a kick-ass Superman film. I'm more of a Batman fan myself, but I gotta say they did a really good job with this Superman film. There are or two very minor hiccups, but they are easily forgiven. The part with the kid took me by surprise. I wasn't expecting that.
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Just kidding. Actually, Mori wrote a nice review. And I agree that this film is a mixed bag with a nice 90 minutes in the middle. The first 45 was pretty boring and the last 20 is very drawn out and anticlimactic for a SUPERHERO film. But, judging by the 10 PM show at the Times Square AMC there will be some who LOVE this film. Seriously though, we need a villain worthy of a Superman film next time out. Lex could be great - but not in this Donner incarnation. Bring on Doomsday or Darkseid.
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when Lois and Jason went to the hospital. People actually walked out during that scene. That was funny.
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I have the perfect woman - http://www.1wu.net/out.php/i1382_Jessie.jpg
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If you want my opinion on the film, just read Mori's review. Furthermore, if there is one thing that this movie is really lacking in, it's heart and depth. This film had never of those elements, and it's a shame. However, Routh is a fantastic Superman/Clark Kent, and he works.
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Karen, Craig T. Nelson's weasely boss in POLTERGEIST, was cast Ma Kent's new boyfriend, but his part got edited down to nothing more than a one line voice over and a glimpse of his elbow next to Martha near the end of the film. BOOOO! (I'm mad because Karen is from my home town of Wilkes-Barre, PA)
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As in night, not tone. Batman is supposed to be out at night, Superman is out in the day, kind of like the animated series of both. This movie was like one long night, with basically just the baseball field part was day. Is this because of Jon Peters? I really hate the kid, the 12 year old Lois Lane sucked, Lex's plot was just fucking dumb. If I go with the reaction of the people I saw it with, this movie is doomed. No one clapped or cheered, everyone bitched about the kid. I am sure it will make a lot of money from people who don't care about what Superman is supposed to really be about, or from the folks dropping kids off at the movie like it is a daycare. I am not even going to bother watching it at IMAX. Now excuse me while I put Superman 4 (yeah, I think it is better) in the DVD player and cry myself to sleep.
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God, what a major, major disappointment. Maybe someday Hollywood will actually have the balls to make a film that captures everything we love about an iconic comic book character----but this steaming pile ain't it. Garbage. Damn you, Singer.
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Overall i was pleased with Superman Returns. My two favorite reviews on here were Harry's and Massyrams (spell?) ... but, i am dissapointed I wasn't as happy with the film as they were. Their reviews are how I wanted to feel because I apsolutely love Superman. Feel good, just not great. Had two issues...1. i know the film was long already, but I wish the Krypton scenes were still in the movie and the Clark at home with his mother in Smallville were a little more drawn out so we get more of a sense of Superman/Clark being gone for a long time. Maybe they could have shortened the very long hospital scene. And 2. anyone else notice that Superman/Clark/Brandon didn't have many actual lines in the movie? He looks the part, sometimes sounds the part, but I don't think outside of the interview that Supes/Clark had much to say. What's up with that? I'm not trashin' on the film, I did like it a lot. The frickin' opening credits did a lot for me. Just had those two issues. The kid thing doesn't bother me at all.
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not sure what to make of the movie. I think i agree w/ moriarity's review.
creatively i'm not sure what to think. maybe spoiled by JLU but honestly i think this story could have been a multi ep arc of JLU and maybe done better.
I get the kid, hes ok, but yeah first movie, it kinda puts things in tough spot.
Luthor isn't campy as i feared but so underutilized and not the Lex of JLU or smallville.
The whole pushing the entire continent away is weird and the ending is anticlimatic.
Visually the movie is fucking stunning. IMAX 3d made me crave they did the whole thing. Especially the credits and certainly some other acts vs the ones they chose. Acting Routh does a SOLID job. Thankfully not a bumbling clark of before.
Lois, acting satisfactory but she just 'looks' miscast, coudlnt get over it
Spacey's ok, but I thnk w/ more material he'd be killer.
Jimmy is great interpretation of him.
nitpicks. I'm over the darker suit, the smaller shield, the beveled shield.
His eyes look too blue? they fake? make him look almost too young. did they paintbrush his face in every frame? wow looked like it, he looked better than lois everytime.
Lex wtf was he wearing on his feet? these weird motherfuckign boots.
ParkerPosey? wtf was the point, lame.
I agree i like Lex luthor but he doesn't always have to be there although supes' rouge gallery blows.
But make him badass.
In Superman Returns, the world has to get used to having him back, maybe i do to, but yeah mixed on this one ...havnet made up mind.
Sets are glorious. Effects seemless. details good. 3d cool. cinemaphotography great. Score good.
lois hmm. kid hmm. supes' kids uhoh. lex, hmm. kitty no.
I guess im not sure what to expect from a supes' movie and this is great in that retrospect. Its like Batman Begins, great to bring the chraacgter back to life, the story, kinda long/boring at points but overall welcome back. -
Me and my friends caught the 10:00 and the overwhelming response from most of the audience was very positive. Many were talking about looking forward to a sequel, and that along speaks volumes for it's appeal. Can't really complain about anything, the majority of the casting was good if not great, with Spacey and Routh putting on great performances. I'll probably see it once more, maybe at an Imax.
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I was super-hyped to rush out to this today, but the reviews you guys are posting are just good. No one really shitting themselves over the movie. I may not contribute to the opening weekend box office...Maybe next week.
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Oh, and I can totally forgive my two issues if the next film Supes gets to fight a major villan from his lore. I think a villan to focus on to combat will help keep the plot from being so sporadic. I'd love to see Bizaro, Brainiac, Metallo, and would kill to see DARKSIDE! Singer...please give us a good villan to fight with in the next film!
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Saw Supes tonight with a full house and there was a resounding positive response in the theater and within my group. Definatley a little long, but stood up in the face of two weeks of positive reviews, which generally ruin a good film for me. I hope and pray that Superman Stays or whatever they call it does not have Lex Luthor; Spacey was good, but the way that the charachter is portrayed in the films, he is a one trick pony who is out of tricks. I'm not a big mythology guy, but I wouldn't mind seeing a Doomsday movie.
Did anyone else think that Lois looked like she was 12? -
Us Australians won't get the movie till 29th but i am Pumped to see it opening night. Heres hoping they show the Spidey 3 Teaser with it over here too.
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If you think otherwise, I would have to believe that you're expectations are beyond "supernerd" (no pun intended). It was a great film.
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Bryan Singer did an excellent job. He did something most directors cannot do: make a kid in a serious movie not be annoying.
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That's all.
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they were using internet expressions like "wtf" and such, i wanted to punch them all
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Can't wait to see it with my little brother. Thought the Kid was cool too.
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It's Darkseid btw not Darkside, and i don't think he will ever be in a movie. Way too much back story. I would love to see Doomsday on film! They should make a 'Death of...' and 'The world without...' Superman movies.
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Overall I liked the movie. Routh did a fine job with what could have been a thanless role. Like George Reeves and Christopher Reeve, Routh will embody the Man of Steel for a generation of kids. The special effects were outstanding. I loved all the iconic images from comics and other sources that Singer packed into the film, including the little homages to films like 2001, Amityville Horror, Jaws, Titanic and I'm sure others.
But his reverence to the original Donner film left me feeling a bit blah about the film.
At first it was fun and tied the movie back to its 1978 predecessor, but so many scenes harkened back to original with exact or at least reminiscent lines that it kind of took me out of the experience.
That being said Singer did get so much right. My biggest fears about the film were Routh as Superman and the child plot point, but ironically, Routh's performance and the story of the kid (not necessarily the young actor's performance) were my favorite parts of the movie.
I'm going to be interested in hearing the opinions of my friends who aren't big fans, because like I did last year with Batman Begins, I spoiled myself by reading too much about the film before going to see it.
I'm wondering how the public is going to react to the Gospel imagery and plot points used in the film. The Messianic themes were as overt in this film or even moreso than in the recent adaption of the Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe.
I don't have a problem with it, but I would think some on both sides of the issue might.
Some might call it blasphemy, while others see it as too preachy.
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First off, I'd like to say, to the guy who sat in front of me, two rows from the back, at the ten o'clock showing at my local cineplex, you know who you are, Mr.I'm wearing a Batman shirt "to be different", Mr.I think I'm clever clapping at a certain point in the Consolidated Theaters "lobby" ad, Mr.I try to get attention by letting loose with the most obnoxious laugh known to man at any given moment (whether it's called for or not), "congratulations son, you're a meathead". Now, on to my thoughts regarding the biggest film of the year...... I feel the same way about Superman Returns, as Harry feels about X3. I'm disappointed, something I loved didn't turn out the way I wanted it to. Of course, he has more canon to fuel his opinion than myself, and mine is a bit out of the norm. I'm disappointed that they chose to take the franchise in a certain direction one that will prevent Millville from ever getting a spinoff. I'm dissapointed how the characters were handled (although, I will admit, when there is far more depth to them on that show I mentioned...once you look through the "Dawson's Creek" and "freak of the week" storylines, and spotty writing, you'll find one of the best comic themed properties to grace the small screen, and should have one day graced the big one as well. I told myself "I'm not going to try to preach the gospel of Smallville, because I know from experience it will only fall on deaf ears", but you know me. And, I bet it would be easier than trying to get BendersShinyAss to check some of the classic X-men comics out. Smallville is about the character of Clark Kent learning about his powers and trying to deal with them and have, or at least attempt to have a normal life in the process. He is more in the vein of a Peter Parker on the show, and I dare say, he is handled much better than what Sam has done with Pete. Sure, it's a departure from Supes being a "god" who only poses as one of us to fit in, but frankly, that is boring. Yes, I said it, BORING. Smallville tried something different, and knocked it out the park, but unfortunately the majority of Superman's fanbase were impatient or put off by certain themes. Which I can't understand when, we are talking about a teenage boy, doing teenage things. People knock it for it's teeny bopper romances, yet they can live with the Supes/Lois relationship that (sometimes) weighs down the films. They knock Welling's acting, when Routh was as wooden as they come. Routh isn't as bad as Reeve, mostly because the script doesn't have him ham it up, yet what he is doing is still a impression of Chris. That's it, that's all. Welling has made the role his own over the last five years, but instead of the hope of a Superman for a new generation, we get a rehash of the old one. Of course, most of you will say this review was written months ago, due to me being the most outspoken Smallville supporter on this site, much like you claimed Harry's X3 review was written last year, but......unlike Harry, I can admit to enjoying something I have such a grudge against. Yes, I was looking forward to this film, and as I mentioned, rather explicitly in my X3 review, the third trailer blew me away. And certain things did blow me away, the action scenes, were amazing. The effects of Supes being Supes on film, have finally been realized. (I smell a Oscar) Supes setting the plane in the ballpark, Supes do some major landscaping near the end of the film, all awesome. But, the most memorable moments, were not from Supes, Spacey's Luthor (who is much better than Hackman, but pales in comparison to....you know who), Bosworth's Lois (who was much better than I had expected, but still didn't display at least a hint of the firecracker we love about her character), or the kid (who wasn't as annoying as I had feared from the dreaded "trashcan" clip), no, the most memorable moments came from......James Marsden. Yes, I said James Marsden. I'm a X-men fan, first and foremost. Of course, you may question that, for me liking The Last Stand (It was nowhere near what we wanted, but I still enjoyed it). In Superman Returns, there is a certain scene involving Marsden that reminded me of one of my first issues of Uncanny. Issue #176 to be exact. And it made me a little more pissed off at Tom Rothman for doing X3 without Bryan, it had me wishing Cyclops was as heroic as Marsden was here. That was a glimpse of what we could of had with the double shot of X-sequels Singer had planned. Hopefully, we will get more of James in Superman Returns Again, or *crosses fingers* a resurrected Scott Summers, he has really become a likable guy. I dare say, he should have been casted as Superman, he's that good. The story and pacing is a bit meh, and once again Singer lifts a major plot from a Star Trek film, but it is light years better than Donner's efforts. I just wish Bryan would quit playing "homage" *cough*rehash*cough* and come up with something new for once. Overall, the film is good, but not great. It's not the holy grail of comic cinema that some proclaim it to be. But considering we haven't got many film's vying for that crown, it sets awful close to that title. Maybe next time, and maybe they will do something different. Considering that Supes has a kid now, it most likely will be. Of course, Bryan will probably play "homage" to Smallville with the boy. *sigh*
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Jun 28, 2006 2:04:53 AM CDT
Go to the IMDB & check out the red carpet stills of KB
by hell's cigarette
She looks like an even more retarded Mena Suvari. She is your typical blonde, no chest, vacant-eyed sorority coed...masquerading as Lois Lane for chrissakes! She should have been totally typecast as "Kelly" the girl Dawson banged in Rules Of Attraction following the release of that film. Come on, Lois Lane?? Give me a break. But gay guys (i.e. Kevin "Bobby Darin" Spacey and Brian Singer) evidently love her. She simply does not physically embody the role...Brandon Routh, spot on. For me, the casting of Lois is just as important as the role of Supes/Clark and Singer & Co. completely failed. Most of the actresses considered were simply physically inappropriate for the role (Claire Danes, Keri Russell, Mischa Barton and Keira "The Jaw" Knightley, etc.). Get a clue! Singer should have just cast Anna Paquin if he was going for youth(sticking with his X-Men alumns...she is actually older than Bosworth, which is mind-blowing).
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and I must say, I haven't felt this pleased with a comic book film since X2. It was epic, touching, etc. Everything I expect from an adaptation. The only drawback is that it simply wasn't epic enough. But I think I'm getting used to Singer's lack of true comic book flair. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.
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Beautifully wonderful and painful movie. Damn it. Man, if Superman and Lois can't be together, what's left for the rest of us? Why can't Supes reveal himself to Lois, fight for her, and help raise his son? Loved the movie though.
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FUCKING SPELLCHECK! WTF? MILLVILLE?
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After X-Men I didn't know if Singer could do epic, the X-men films were great for what they were, but I thought they could have been more. Now that I've seen Superman Returns there's no doubt in my mind that with a bigger budget and more creative freedom Singer can do epic filmmaking with the big leaguers. There were shots in film worthy of Spielberg, the film was directed beautifully and brilliantly. I do not think the film needs editing, I like how Singer is bold enough to extend a shot and not cut away or extend a scene, that's epic filmmaking. As far as the story goes, the film IS a remake of Superman I, no doubt about it, but on an updated and larger scale. I was surprised by this at first, it was all there, from the beginning credits, to Supe's flight with Lois, to Superman getting thrown to the bottom of the pool. (this time it's the ocean) Like I said all of these things happen on MUCH larger scale. The stuff they've added, Superman's Return and the kid, are merely just more obstacles for Superman to have to deal with. If you can get over the fact that it's a requel and judge on it's own, you'll love it. If you can't then you will love the special fx. I'm not going to lie and say I would have loved to see Superman battle it out with some Super baddies, but I didn't feel the film was missing anything. I thought the special fx scenes paid off big time.
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...if you only have the other Superman films as a reference point. I liked the movie, it's incredibly well made. But the problem with these movies was, is, and always will be the con man, sheister Lex Luthor and everything he brings with him. His stupid henchmen, his embarassing real estate plots, and the damn wigs! This is Superman's greatest villain? Really?! The average viewer, who's not familiar with the comics or JLU will take it at face value...a joke. But the fans will always be disappointed and leave the theater houses just wanting a lot more. It's time for BRAINIAC or....dare I say? DARKSEID!!!
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fantastic. Little slow in the end, but overall a very good film.
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...and now after reading many of these posts, I'm not even sure if I want to go see it. It just seems like the story is just too frustrating and inane. I hate to reward bad movies with my theater admission dollars too. Maybe I'll just download this when it gets released on DVD...still can't decide.
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for that animation that they're using of Superman in the wheelchair. Yeah, I can hear your responses already: "Oh, but that's Herc's little avatar! We mean no disrespect!" Yeah, right... and I'm sure that as you were creating the animation and posting it on the site nobody made the connection that Christopher Reeve was confined to a wheelchair for the last few years of his life. You're gonna have to delete this post, because I'm totally calling you assholes out bigtime. There's no excuse for this type of shit.
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"He did something most directors cannot do: make a kid in a serious movie not be annoying."
The point is the kid shouldn't be there, annoying or not. It smacks of Hollywood's misguided idea that for a film to appeal to kids it must feature a kid. The kids watching want to be Superman, not his illegitimate son. This just gives DC/Warners another shot at Superboy without all the creative legalities currently going on. -
Lois, that is. And the performance. Plane sequence was cool, humor was crazy (dog eating dog). I do wonder where they can go with a sequel though...I agree with Mori that the kid shouldn't be the focus of any future film. We need Superman vs. giant robot action!
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*****Okay, here's what you
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This, along with Batman Begins, what an amazingly, improbably fantastic one - two punch for DC and Warner Brothers. Loved this movie. I was five years old again.
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I'm not even a Reeve fan, but I think you should pull it quick.
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How can Supes costume withstand entering the eart's atmosphere, not to mention taking all them bullets to the chest, but a "kkkkkkryptonite" shard can puncture it, and the peeps in the e.r. can rip it off him?
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Kate Bosworth. She acted very well, but she still looks 16 (okay, maybe 19) and she is supposed to be a college grad who worked her way to top-dog reporter, won a pulizer, pushed out a kid whose head is stronger than steel and waited five bitter years while she dated Cyclops and kept her eye out for S-Man. Bad casting, and she is a fine actress, just too young. Jennifer Connoly maybe? Still, GREAT superhero movie and when compared to X3, its the Godfather. Now, in the next one I want the Martian Manhunter even though I know it will be more kryptonite from space or from the chunks in the ocean.
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... Has always been awful. You heard me. The symbol aside, everything about the suit is in stark contrast to Supe's personality. Honestly the primary colours always bothered me.
Imagine you suddenly getting all of Supe's power. Would you wear his coustume?(well DC would sue ur ass off but besides that...) I can't see any self respecting person ever wearing it. If that Jason kid is ever to pick up the Superboy mantle, i hope he go with a black t-shirt with the S symobol stenciled on and jeans. No cape! see The Incredibles. -
Maybe it's because I'm so familiar with the Donner films that I can point out every one, or maybe it's because thier are just too many, but they do kinda take you out the experience when they are happening. That is one of the films few flaws. Loved the other homages though.
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His costume is kryptonian technology and can take the same impact he can, and it was not ripped off him.
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What's the point of having a superhero movie without a credible supervillain? Lex Luthor isn't an evil genius, he's a total moron. If you drown half the world's population (and the rich half at that) then who's gonna pay to live on your new continent? It's like the studio decided to use the same real estate plot from the first movie, but make it 100 times BIGGER. Idiots.
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The costume isn't Krytonian! Ma Kent made it for him if u follow birthright origin. Even if u don't i don't think it ever was Kryptonian in ANY origin.
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may be dissapointed. What somehow worked for Hackman's Lex, does not for Spacey's.
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Does anyone else find the green superman in a wheelchair at the top of the page a little wacked.
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Its good, really good. Great? I dont know. The special effects are incredible. SPOILER But Lex's big plan, all the hospital stuff, and Kate Bosworths performance really bring things down a notch. END SPOILER I could nit pick the hell out of it but the bottom line is i had a great time. And compared to some of the other stuff in theaters right now thats all i need. B+; 8/10
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for that animation that they're using of Superman in the wheelchair. Yeah, I can hear your responses already: "Oh, but that's Herc's little avatar! We mean no disrespect!" Yeah, right... and I'm sure that as you were creating the animation and posting it on the site nobody made the connection that Christopher Reeve was confined to a wheelchair for the last few years of his life. You're gonna have to delete this post, because I'm totally calling you assholes out bigtime. There's no excuse for this type of shit.
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That's how Singer explained it. And by the way, the material it's made from is what superbaby was wrapped up in on his trip to earth. 100% Kryptonian
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Sorry, now i remeber little Kal being wraped in Blue and red in Superman I but it was never directly explained where he got the suit. Even if one assume its Kryptonian, it still doesn't explain why the ER guys can so easily tear it while bullets don't scratch it.
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I posted my film thoughts first and read the talk-back second. I agree with YackBacker 100% Jennifer Connely is Lois Lane, too bad she already Hulked out. I am sure that would either scare her off or Hollywood but she would have been perfect. I also think casting James Marsden as the guy who gets his chick's heart taken away by a bad-ass superhero seemed pretty familiar. Call me crazy . . .
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They took the suit off him, they didn't tear it off. I could be wrong though, I've only seen it once.
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That was GOOD.
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What I really, really want to see is maybe one more Superman sequel done kickass, and a Batman Begins sequel done kickass, so we can finally see a World's Finest movie. I'd so love to see Bale and Routh in a flick together.
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Jun 28, 2006 3:05:41 AM CDT
"If it don't pull in the ching this weekend" -SHADDUP!
by triumph poops!
Yeah, right, Jayjew. If it doesn't make ALL of its "ching ching" production money back in the next 5 days then it's ALL over and SR is a dead fish floating. Riiiiiiight. Because somehow (or at least in the whacked alternate dimension that you live in) after the next 5 days ALL prints of SR will magically self-destruct and vanish off the face of the Earth, and thus NO ONE will be able to buy a ticket to see it anymore. Or there will never be any DVDs of the movie in a few months time adding to its bottom line. Or there won't be any merchandising revenue. Oh, and that's right! In your whacked alternate world, after the next 5 days summer will magically be over TOO - ending its run completely. (Insert Rodney Dangerfield eyeroll here) What the fuck is with you people going on and on and on ad nauseum about POTC burying SR? What, are you just trolls purposefully out to piss of Superman fans who are just trying to enjoy their movie? The way you stupid twats are going on and on about POTC, you'd think you clods owned Disney stock or something and have a vested interest in it doing well. For fuck's sake, just shut up and enjoy the summer, enjoy all the movies you choose to see, and quit betting on them like their race horses that you have a fucking financial stake in -- which, being the social rejects that you are who still live in your parents' basement, couldn't POSSIBLY be true since it's financially impossible for you losers to buy stock in Disney or Warners or anything else since you're still spending all of your allowance money on acne cream!
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Cyclops in X3 pretty much went out like Johny Cage in Mortal Kombat 2. Man they fucked those movies up.
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so i go to see this movie with a friend of mine for the 10pm showing. as we waited in the already long line i started to look around and see all the overweight geeks wearing their superman shirts. i'm a geek but not overwieght and the shirt i wore was my evil dead shirt. i can excuse the little kids wearing the shirts but the older guys, no way. well the movie was being shown in two screens that night and we managed to get into the first allowing some cute twin girls to cut in front of us. they were obviously there cuz they're fans of smallville. the sold out theater was packed and now everyone had to sit and wait. the lights go down and everyone in the theater start to clap. the spidey 3 teaser plays followed by several other trailers and then finally the movie starts. the entire theater goes quiet. the destruction of krypton is shown followed by the opening credits and theme. people erupted in cheers and applause. so the movie starts off slow and it sucked that ben harper wasn't shown in the movie except for where he bids martha farewell for the night. and for someone that posted earlier saying this was martha's new boyfriend. he was not. remember way back in the original supes movie. clark is talking to martha about getting ben to help her out on the farm. and that's who that guy was.
brandon routhe hardly had any lines but still looked great as supes. kevin spacey looked great as luthor but there was something lacking to him. the kid was cool and i had no complains. come on the original superman movies strayed away from the comics and followed their own mythology so singer can do the same here if he wants to. luthor's plan was stupid but yet made him seem even more insane. and who cares if what's his name from harold and kumar didn't say a thing except for that one time. the movie wasn't about him so don't see why there are people around here that have made a big fuzz about him. he shouldn't have been in the movie anyway. well that's enough about the movie. the reaction of the crowd? when the credits started to roll everyone applauded and cheered. many were saying they were coming back tomorrow. as we were walking out everyone got quiet but you could still here people going on about what they had just seen. there were some things that made me cringe but i don't care. it was great.
the funny part. about halfway thru the movie my friend had to go badly to take a piss but he decided to hold it in cuz he didn't want to miss the movie. so once the movie ended we got out of there and he rushed towards the bathroom. i went outside to the car and waited for him. about 1 minute later he comes rushing from around the corner of the theater. i was like "that was quick" i see him come zooming right by the car and he heads towards the empty field about 40 feet away from the parking lot. apparantly the bathroom was packed and as i looked to see what he was doing i see him pulling down his pants exposing his white underwear. at that moment a car drives right by and shines its headlights on him but he just kept whizzing away. i started to crack up. he then zipps up and then comes heading back. a couple of guys who were parked nearby started cheering him on. as he got into the car i just started to make fun of him. i even asked him if he noticed the car that shined the headlights on him. he said "yes, and that movie was badass." -
Having seen "Superman Returns," I guess it's not set in the 80s, despite the clothes, so there's no reason there can't be a Superman/Batman movie. If they wait until after the Wonder Woman movie comes out, we could have the trinity set-up. That would be sweet! It's funny how there's never any mention of other superheroes in superhero movies. FF never mention the X-Men or Spider-Man, Batman never mentions Superman and vice versa, let alone less well-known characters.
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Yes I thought it was good, right from the opening sequence/credits. I loved the Marlon Brando voice over and then Krypton exploding, very dramatic and moving. Brought back great memories. I thought the film got slow about half way through. I'm not sure what happened. I guess the continent thing felt a bit much or something. The kid seemed a bit unnecessary but I suppose it has meaning because it helps the point that Superman isn't really alone, or something. He isn't really the last of his kind after all, and life goes on. Every actor was great, even that female Luthor sidekick worked for me. And that Bosworth girl playing Lois, I had no problem with her. Jimmy Olsen was pretty damn funny. I liked the action sequences, especially the plane. But part of me really longs for Supes to battle it out with some crazy meanies like Brainiac or Doomsday. Luthor has been used too often as a villian. I see how he's necessary in this "return" for the Superman franchise, but next time bring in the enemies that can really match Superman in strength. The use of Superman's powers in the film was clever, like using his X-ray vision to watch Lois in the elevator, or observing the fault line under the ocean, cracking towards Metropolis. His heat vision destroying the falling glass. etc. Hope everyone else liked it too. Great job Brian Singer and gang.
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I was raised on the Donner films and John Byrne reboot of the mid 80's, and from the fantastic opening credits on, I enjoyed this film immensely.
I think Brandon Routh should give a collective "Fuck you" to the people that bitched about his casting from day one.
He really brought the goods and sold this film.
Routh played the character with a more 21st century sensibility than say a Reeve. We live in somewhat cynical and jaded times and Superman seemed more adult and lived in both spiritually and emotionally.
I really can't think of a glaring problem or issue I had with the film, for me it did exactly what it was supposed to do, reintroduce Superman to a brand new audience and generation, while respecting the history of the character.
As far as the kid, A. he was in the film 10 minutes and said maybe 10 lines if that, and B. I liked the full circle of the narrative established in part 1 about fathers and sons. Superman can have a child, why not? He has never made a vow of chastity has he?
I think it actually makes him more human and easier to relate with.
I have a sneaking suspicion the kid is going to end up as a villian anyway. You read it here first, remember this post. heh heh
And I'll say it again, when the three cocksuckers were kicking the shit out of Superman as he was helpless and crawling, I got teary eyed. And if a director can make a God damn comic book film about a guy wearing a cape and tights, and it move me emotionally well, it worked as far as I'm concerned.
Welcome back Superman the world really missed you. -
I don't think it's just gay guys who like her. I would have preferred someone like Margot Kidder or Erika Durance from "Smallville," who have that robust sassiness, but they went in a different direction with this Lois, making her more subdued, I suppose. If you release some of your preconceptions and expectations, the character works just fine.
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Why is ok to wear an evil dead shirt but not a superman shirt? I own both and I'm fuckin awesome.
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But I didn't want to see a GOOD movie. I wanted a great one. I loved some things, but I couldn't stop thinking logically throughout it. There were odd things and small problems. Not enough to make it bad, but enough that I couldn't fully enjoy and focus on it.
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It was boring and filled with gaping plot holes. I don't mind few action sequences but he is fucking superman! Wow me. The Da Vinci Code had as much action as Superman...In the future Superman must go up against someone who allows him to show off his powers. Any way THE PLOT WAS STUPID. A rock continent? What the fuck was Lex going to do play poker and watch fuzzy TV? How can you sustain yourself on rock? Even if he had succeeded in killing superman someone could have just shot/bombed his ass and his plan is over. Its amazing that the writers expected us to be scared or give a fuck about that plot it sucked. Of course we can do the 5 year plot hole discussion but thats a no brainer. I don't like how those crystals from the fortress were on the table in the ship when it sank then magically appear with Lex later. I hated that Bryan "look at me" Singer copied a Titantic action sequence and a Mummy action sequence (plane scene) in the same movie. I was just not impressed with this movie and I think word of mouth may hurt it. Last but not least Superman did use his powers to stalk and be creepy on Lois 3 times???? That movie was just so mild its boring. Bring on Pirates.
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to make his movie. It would have been like this only with a better story and a Superman with more than one facial expression. Halfway through this multitude of set pieces I found myself wondering if Bandon Routh was a real person or just an amalgam of Brian Singer's wet sheet dreams. All this film did was make me want to watch the Donner version when I got home. C'mon Singer, when you start a movie, at least have an angle - don't be like all these fanfilms one can pick up at ComicCon... a 200mil fanfilm, but a fanfilm it is.
To sum up: This movie was to me like a cluster of farts trapped in a pretty candy bag. -
the last 15 minutes? Harry tell bryan the climax of the film occurs at the end not 3/4 of the way in then fill the rest with 20 minutes of nothing. Spider-Man 3 trailer rocked. I wanted supes to be Batman Begins, or Spider-Man, or X-Men but hell X3 was more ENTERTAINING than Superman and for running a solid hour and 10 minutes shorter it had fewer plot holes and a threat on a much grander scale.
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at the U.S. Box Office. Let me start by saying I'm a huge Superman fan all my life. Love every incarnation, movies, comics, TV shows, animated shows, etc. And something really weird happened to me with this film, something that has bever happened before with any other. I really like the film(don't love it, though) and I'm dissatisfied and dissapointed with it at the same time. For the first time I completely agree with Moriarty and his review. First of all. This movie is a remake. This is the movie where Kal-El crashes in Smallville, goes to Metropolys to work for the Daily Planet, saves Lois Lane from a falling aircraft, stops a robbery one night, flies with Lois one night, foils a real-estate scheme by a wig wearing Lex Luthor, who surrounds himself with idiots, and with a woman who has a change of heart in the end that ends up helping Superman's cause, you know, the one where Superman doesn't end up with Lois in the end, and he flies over the earth and smiles at the camera in the final shot. And your question is:- which one? And my answer is:- exactly. It just...I don't know, Superman doesn't do enough...he's there on the screen quite a bit, but I didn't get a sense I saw enough of him in action. Maybe it's because everything's a little cramped and rushed, and Luthor's scheme doesn't really work that well. Like I said, I really liked it because it has some great points. Routh works, Mardsen works, the kid works, and the movie has a lot of heart. **Spoiler** When Supes says "Goodbye Lois" in the plane as he is about to go off and stop Luthor, he knows he is going to die and that is a final goodbye, but he must stop Luthor at all cost, even at the cost of his own life. Very strong rendition of the character and what it embodies. The scene has that finality all over it, as well as the sacrifice that must be made. Then he goes up and soaks up the sun one last time, because he knows he's going up against 40 tons of Kryptonite. Great stuff, if only there were more of this throughout the film. I just didn't love it like I wanted to love it, ya know? And I think many, many people will be dissapointed with this film, and it will not render itself to repeated viewing. Dissapoinment and not strong enough word of mouth will limit greatly the earning potential of this film. Ah well, here's hoping the sequel fixes some of the weak, and sometimes truly weird points (anyone else found that whole hospital scene in the end, and the scene with Luthor and Kitty stranded on that island just weird as all hell?). I will take the sequel as the true start of this franchise. This one was a good remake that opens the door to many great posibilities, and with this cast, crew, and the technology, those posibilities are endless...
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Tristan Lake Leabu (the kid) was sitting right behind me at the early screening in Glendale, CA. It was a bit distracting because his mom and family were treating it like it was thier own personal screening and wouldn't shut up. But I can't say I blame them for being excited, it's a big deal in thier lives. However, my opinion of young Tristan took a hit when he SNEEZED all over me! It was raining his spew, kinda gross. Other then that, it was a fun time. (BTW, Tristan was fast asleep by the time credits were rolling).
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My honest to God question for anyone that didn't really enjoy this movie is what the fuck DO you like???? I mean really.
What was not to enjoy?
Who wants a film about a 2 and a half hour fist fight, or body count, or blood? If that's what people were expecting from a Superman film then you set yourself up for dissapointment.
This film did exactly what it was supposed to do. The production design was stellar, the acting was good, the plot was neutral and unoffensive. You have to remember, Superman is a model for little kids. I didn't want to see Superman spilling brains and knocking the shit out of people.
Superman is a story about heroism, ideals, virtues, things to strive for and realize, hope and inspiration. If you want to see ass kicking pop in the Obi-Wan versus Anakin fight or something.
I'm genuinely curious what people that didn't enjoy this film wanted or hoped to see that WASN'T there? -
Batman Begins still is tops in my books, but this was right behind it, as far as superhero films go.
I can't wait to see it again. Best blockbuster type movie that I've seen in a while. -
being creepy and stalking are virtues and ideals kids should stand for...and if you liked that villan plot i don't understand YOU!
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You are shitting me right?
This wasn't some floozy Superman had just met , he had a prior established relationship with her and was checking up on her, if anyone can post on here that they have never "checked up" on a former flame you are either a priest, a God damn liar, or a virgin. -
It served it's purpose for me and entire reason for being in a film about a Superman, it caused him to go into action and demonstrate his super abilities and powers so, I'm content.
Lifting the land mass just plain kicked ass. -
....Chris Reeve swapped spit with Michael Caine in Deathtrap. Routh walks around the movie with an expression that says "Bryan Singer told me if I have sex with him I'll be a big movie star. I guess it's working?"
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I was sooo tempted to get up and yell "NO WHITE CASTLE FOR YOU!!!" when Kumar was *spoiler* killed *spoiler*
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Just wanted to chime in and say how lucky you guys in the states are. You all get to watch Superman Returns at the end of this month while us poor shmoes in merry, old England have to wait until July. JULY!!! I mean come on Warners, play the game! The tv spots have only just started to play over here and it's torture. Torture I tells ya!We demand our Big Blue fix and we demand it now!!!
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On a scale of 1-10, the 3D was a 4. The 3D conversion only put 3 or 4 "planes" of 3D at most -- they looked like cardboard cutouts. Only the foremost object (usually Superman) had actual depth-of-field. NOTHING like the documentaries that were actually PHOTOGRAPHED with 3D Imax cameras (like Space Station 3D). Also polarized glasses will never look as good as the LCD shutter system used at some IMAXes. This system produces ghosting and an unacceptable dulling of color. Go see this at the loudest prettiest screen you can, but true 3D fans avoid the 3D Imax at all costs.
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The ending lagged and made the movie feel long, also SPOILER: I really would have enjoyed a final scene with Lex and Supes on the island and Supes takes Parker Posey away and lets Lex sit on the island or SOMETHING!!! But Routh I thought was amazing the movie is the bright spot this summer. I frankly don't give a shit if it doesn't break 300 or even 200 million I still enjoyed the hell out of it and can't wait to see it again. I must ask tho is it worth seeing on IMAX 3D or is it a waste?
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Superman Returns
Quick Capsule Review
PROS: Loved the FX. Loved Kevin Spacey. Loved Perry White. Opening credits/ending shots were geek-tastic. Kate Bosworth's a decent Lois Lane (see: "Anyone but that banshee Margot Kidder"). Plane scene was the shit. Heat vision rocks. Brandon Routh wasn't half bad.
CONS: Parker Posey's character (why????). Luthor's master plan makes zero sense. Plotline surrounding Lois' son. Anticlimactic finale. Hospital scenes were goofy. Luthor's still smarter and cooler in the comics than he's ever been on film (i.e. the only character Smallville got right).
Thanks to Dave for getting us in:-) -
POS doesn't make it's money back before word gets out what a pot vapid inferior pig vomit it is SINO 2 won't be filming any time soon. POTC2 is gonna steamroll this bucket of ass chili. It's gonna be lucky to crack 150 million.
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No, not really, but is there a special reason for the use of Herc?
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Loved the movie can't wait for 2 & 3 with Brainiac, New Krypton and Supes Jr. perhaps?
Just came back from AMC Century City. Tobey and E from Entourage were in the same theater watching Supes. It was kickass seeing the Spidey trailer with you man! A lil trippy considering the recent Entourage episode was the guys watching Aquaman at the multiplex. Venom will rock. Now, here's to the motherfucker of ALL films (after Supes and Bats 2&3 respectively) BATMAN vs SUPERMAN! Btw the Andrew Kevin Walker script is linked under its wikipedia entry. I doubt they'll do a franchise with these films which begs the question maybe a brief cameo where each hero hops into the other's third part of the franchise that leads into B vs S? Gimme juicy B vs S storylines. -
This isn't a movie so much for the teenage or immature adult audience. It's for kids and adults. I loved it. I don't know what's up with people who complain about holes in the plot?! did they pay attention watching the movie? could we get reviews from people who aren't drunk/high/whatever and can't pay attention to the movie. EBERT
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And it's AICN. Congrats, Harry. You're site has become a home for gay bashing and intolerance. And you've done nothing to stop it. Hope you're proud of yourself and your "Liberal" credentials. Shame on you.
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I don't see how Singer can go on with out doing another Superman film. Theres a lot of material to recover. I for one already have a Brainiac plot in my mind, but I won't share it.
The Movie was Great, so I hope he can pull it off again. I know after how much it'll pull in Warners will want another. -
Which really is all that matters,
This film is the definitive comic book to screen adaptation and a SUPERIOR film to Batman Begins, ANY X-men film, the rancid steaming piles served up as Spider Man films,the entirely self-conscious and overly analytical, inhuman Ang Lee HULK film, and second ONLY to perhaps Superman: The Movie.
For a comic book film from now on to be successful in MY eyes, it has to top Superman Returns.
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Sure, there are areas that can be nit-picked, and Bosworth may not be the perfect Lois, but I thought the movie was absolutely fantastic. I can't think of another Supes movie that could do justice any better than this one did. I can't wait for the next one. And, yes, it should be Brainiac instead of Lex. People need to move beyond Lex, even though he's great.
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Superman Return is a dull, lifeless movie ploddes about for 2.5 hours. It will work as a sleep aid for crowds. All the characters are paper thin and the story is without any real direction.
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It's impossible, Lois could never have Superman's baby. Do you think her fallopian tubes could handle the sperm? I guarantee you he blows his load like a shotgun right through her back. What about her womb? Do you think it's strong enough to carry his kid?
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Apparently a small sliver of Kryptonite can nearly kill Superman, but he can hoist a big fucking chunk of it the size of Rhode Island and fly it off into space with little problem. I thought that shit was supposed to be radioactive. Surely a chunk that large would have seriously fucked up Superman's groove. That plot sucked all kinds of cock - much like a certain director. Routh was tits though. Soembody had to be since Lois didn't have any. How about the scene of her standing at the sink in her house? No tits and absolutely no ass whatsoever. She was built like a ten year old boy. Note to Warner Bros: Next time get somebody who doesn't smoke pole to cast the hottie. Hey Kate, mix in a cheeseburger every now and then. I would have banged you like a screen door in a hurricane when I saw you in that chick surfer movie. What the hell happened?!?
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I honestly believe Singer is terribly overrated as a director. The 2 X-Men films he did were 'ok', but I believe the reason people here raved about them was due to the treatment of their beloved characters. As films, they were just 'ok'.
Superman has always been quite a boring character and his Lex Luthor adversarial adventures never really challenged the super-powers. My greatest memory of the old Superman flicks were the Phantom Zone villains as you believed those guys had the power to obliterate Supes. Without such supervillains then the concept isn't appealling to me. Even Mr Mxyzptlk would be a great villain in a new Superman movie. However, it sounds like Singer has gone for the touchy-feely Superman. Fine if that is combined with extreme danger, but it doesn't sound like it is. Batman Begins addressed all of these issues and, although it wasn't a perfect superhero movie, it delivered in all the right areas.
So Superman won't be returning for me. I'll probably check out the DVD, but this movie sounds boring. -
haha! just kidding! this movie was amazing! i went to the 10pm IMax showing in san fran tonight. it was packed and was a great crowd. i LOVED EVERY FRIGGIN' MINUTE OF THE MOVIE; I WISH IT WAS LONGER! i was so amped up after, that i had to go out and have a couple drinks just to "come down"... spoiler alert...i had a tear in my eye when the kid kissed supes on the forehead. i also loved the ending when supes is in the kid's room and says "you'll never be alone"; damn its making me tear up right now. also loved "oh, i'm always around(winkwink)...goodbye lois"; THAT'S how superman talks! loved the super-breath taking out the fires. loved the gatling gun slow-mo scene. loved the plane rescue when he digs his hands into the plane and the entire plane ripples. this movie really shows his strength, like nothing else before. the reason why he's able to carry the kryptonite filled land mass is b/c he gets a massive power boost from the sun, then he goes to the center of the earth; that was the ultimate portrayal of his strength, and it still knocked him comatose. the mob scene outside the hospital conveyed the sheer love everyone has for him. finally, i never thought brandon routh could replace the only man i ever considered to be superman, that being the late great Christopher Reeve, God rest his soul. i was wrong. routh IS superman, in spades!i felt 8 years old again. i will be seeing this movie again tomorrow, and at least a couple more after that. damn i loved this movie!
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Aspiring movie critic here. www.rubensreviews.com.
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I wish I had the ability to sterilize people with my mind.
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Like Ang Lee's Hulk, Singer's Superman defies us to follow it in to new territory, and then pays us off with a trip to the fucking kiddie pool in terms of depth of character or relevance to our actual lives, or in terms of story, or anything else. Great you did something new with a beloved 60 year old character, thats great now give me a reason to care. I don't think thats too much to ask. I guess having a kid is an "real" adult issue, they just never really showed me why they just poured some sacarine on me and shoved a trite hackneyed hospital scene at me and pretended it was a payoff. Fuck that shit. You spend that long up front developing the situation and then just drop that peice of lazy writing at me. Also superman's kid killed a guy and that was just no big deal. Then they shove him and lois in a kitchen in a boat and neither she nor super kid can figure how to get out for ten minutes. She could have just said "Mommy wants you to break the door and beat up the men outside, just try not to hit them in the head" That would have been a great scene. Was it just me or was this the least fiesty and independant portrayal of lois lane ever. It wasn't necessarily bad it was just wrong. What sucks about the situation is that the perfect actress for lois lane is in the movie as Lex's new tessbocker. WTF? I guess because blue crush girl looks all sweet and pure they thought the audience would relate to her. I hate when Hollywood does that. They spent an extra thirty minutes to develop the characters in act one, but they don't even give me a reason to like Lois Lane, except that she's a pretty girl? fuck that shit thats fucking lazy as fuck. Also all that time up front plus a protracted rescue after rescue from "Continent Lex" plus non event showdown with the protagonist, plus a protracted hospital scene, a smarmy daddy loves you scene etc all add up to film that trips over itself in terms of rythym, and just feels oblong and weird. Thats not always a bad thing, but in this case it didn't help matters much. Still what they got right they got way right, there just was not enough of it. The kid and Lois were just weak and that was the main focus of the film. Why did they do that? Ihope they justify themselves with the next one but I don't have much hope for that if they couldn't even conceptualize a coherent first take or first retake on Donner's vision. It sort of feels like a miniseries that would serve as a pilot for a really good superman TV show. Its sort of two three act strucures tied together in the middle, which is really weird for a movie that is THE summer blockbuster. The problem is it bites off more than it can chew and doesn't justify its reason for doing what it does. Anyway it doesnt rank anywhere above X-men 2 in my book. I say let somone else do a different super-man keep the score and throw away the kid for sure let donner's vision and Marlon Brando rest for gods sake. They both have earned it.
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apart from the story. I can't wait for this to come out in 3 weeks time in the UK. Whoo-hoo!
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I WAS REALLY HOPING IT WOULD GET TWO THUMBS UP! WHAT AN ASSHOLE. worse than when roeper gave thumbs down to wallace and gromit and ice age 2. maybe the anesthia from his cancer surgery 2 weeks ago fucked up his brain. some people just don't know what the fuck they are doing any more with these movies. I WILL BE THERE FRONT ROW CENTER HAVING MY BALLS EXPLODE WITH JOY WATCHING THIS MOVIE THIS 4TH OF JULY WEEKEND!!!
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Then wouldn't his son not have his super powers? Cause I when he slept with Lois he had given up his Super powers, so then technically wouldn't his son be human? Cause he was.
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... who thought of the dialogue in Mallrats, when Jason Lee's character speaks about Superman's cumshot into Lois Lane would be like a shotgun blast that would kill her instantly? As for Lois Lane herself, the actress just didn't fit the role at all. Even though Parker Posey isn't beautiful, (pretty sometimes, but not beautiful) even she would have made a better Lois Lane. For some reason Routh almost seemed like a CGI character, similar to that sucky Al Pacino movie "Simone".
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I had a good time at Supes last night and that's what i was looking for, we can deconstruct the plot, demean singer, bash the kid, but the end question is DID YOU HAVE FUN? Frankly if you went to a Superman movie looking for deep relevence and exposition, I think you went for the wrong reason. Summer movies are about having f***ing fun, if I want heavy, I'll wait until fall and winter and go see the Oscar contenders.
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I always thought of Supes losing powers like a tattoo. Just because he altered his body, doesn't mean that it would pass on to his children. Remember, he just lost his powers in Superman II, he didn't become human.
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Ahhh... that makes sense, thanks.
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Saw it monday night at the arizona premiere and it was freaking great. You can check out my opinion on the film plus tons of other cool stuff at www.movietack.net
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Looooooved it! I'll be seeing this one MULTIPLE times in the theater. The audience applauded wildly when Superman rescues the plane, and at the end of the movie. Did I mention I loved it?
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It's a movie for adults, plain and simple. Beautifully shot, wonderfully acted, with an air of pathos and heart most movies only dream of. Most AICN talkbackers will be too busy coming up with more blowjob jokes and gay puns to enjoy it for what it is. Is it a remake? You bet your ass it is, and it's a helluva good one.
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The audience reaction at the theatre we were in was very positive... there were a lot of little kids there and there were a lot of ooohhhs and ahhhs from them. One little guy down the row was like "Mommy, that guy is really Superman"..... I was with a group of 15 people and we went for drinks after and to a person we agreed that Singer did an amazing thing, he added a kid and made him pretty inoffensive....
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Is it possible to love a movie too much? 'Cause right now, I want to have this movie's super-babies... and I'm pretty sure that's impossible all the way around. Seriously though, I think the movie had it's flaws (of which I can point out none after the initial viewing - I accept the changes to canon wholely), but I have the same feeling I had after the original X-Men. The feeling I not only sawy something great, but something with even greater potential.
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Christopher Reeve vs. Brandon Routh. Winner: Christopher Reeve. Gene Hackman vs. Kevin Spacey. Winner: Gene Hackman. Margot Kidder vs. Kate Bosworth. Winner: Margot Kidder. Valerie Perrine vs. Parker Posey. Winner: Valerie Perrine. Jackie Cooper vs. Frank Langella. Winner: Jackie Cooper. Marc McClure vs. Sam Huntington. Winner: Eh...tie!
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It was a good larf to see tiny Kate Bosworth give big bad "La Femme Nikita" Peta a hard time on the plane.
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I thought it was brilliant. Although, there could have been some trimming with overall editing in the film. I know that they cut some scenes the hospital scene for one. Hey look, who's complaining. Perhaps Singer is whetting our appetite for the DVD release. But overall 5 stars out of 5.
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you know its sad when a trailer generates more interest than an entire film. Supes is lame. Spiderman is THE MAN. fast forward to May 4 2007. 'nuff said.
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Let me explain. Everybody loves to claim that the original (at least the first two) Superman movies were the ultimate super here movie. Perhaps they were, for that time. But looking back now (other than Christopher Reeve's performace) all of them were a loaded piece of crap. So where to I start on this one? IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A NEW SUPERMAN MOVIE! Watching this movie I couldn't help but think that Bryan Singer had no interest in picking up any of the Superman comics and researching ALL of these characters. Instead his only reference were the early movies. Yes, Superman IS a boy scout but Bryan Singer kept him a freaking GIRL SCOUT! Brandon did a great job but his performace could have been so much more. Same with Kevin Spacy, he had a chance to create a truly sadistic Lex Luthor, instead we got Gene Hackman reborn. Jimmy, still too much of a dork; Lois, looked like she should be writing for a college newspaper; Kitty, looked like she took a boom tube from the 40's. And the kid, ah the kid; why? WHY? WHY? WHY? That single decision is what ruins it for me all together. You crazy X3 haters complained loudest about little detours they took with characters, but damnit, Singer gave Superman a son! WHY!!?? I needed a new Superman movie not some lame-ass attempt at a sequel. Most importantly I did not need to see Superman's son. Singer should have stuck with X-Men.
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My review: It was an ok film. Good in parts, never great. I felt the writers didn't really have a handle on what Superman was about, though Routh was great with what he was given, as was Marsden. The movie was littered with problems. Problems which would sound like nitpicking if I cited some, but the problem is, there are about a hundred of these little "nitpicks" and they add up bigtime. Besides the little problems, the plot is pretty stale after 30 years, and Lex Luthor's(make that Luther's) plan is pretty ridiculous and not well thought out. The movie is extremely light on action, with only about 3 major action scenes and a couple of minor ones. Superman spends more time brooding than actually being Super in the film, and really comes off as kind of creepy at certain points, in a stalkerish way.
Overall, it's an ok movie, but I was dissapointed, because this is Superman, and I expect better than 'ok'. If I were to give it stars, it would be 2.5 out of 5, just average.(if I had to pick between two and three stars, and couldn't use half a star, I'd say 3 stars out of 5). -
X-Men 3 sucked, this REALLY sucked.. I guess Pirates is the last "big" movie of the summer, hopefully that doesn't suck either. This film was too fucking long and drawn out, superbaby is goddamned retarded, and Lex Luthor is fucking boring as hell. The whole final act of Superman vs. Continent was utter shit, what a lousy payoff. I waded through all that boring shit (Should call this film Dramaman) with way too few action bits inbetween for a fucking showdown with a giant piece of land? Zod needed to make a return or something, fuck this film.
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After you see Superman Returns in theaters, visit and send trailer info to ---http://www.hiddenflicks.com/ --- which tracks which trailers are playing with what movies in theaters...
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I loved the movie. Its almost a lose lose situation though with talkbackers and every other fan forum online. If they didn't make it Donner-esque, people bitch. If they made it too Donner-esque, people bitch. If Superman Returns would have had too much story, people would bitch. If Superman Returns would have had more action than story, people would bitch. People have bitched about every possible version of a new Superman movie up to now and now that this one was made and was faithful to the originals, people bitch. I am just confused about what people want anymore. I hate it that comic movies are always compared to other different comic movies. The style of Batman is completely different than the style of Spider-Man which is different than the style of X-Men which is different than the style of Hulk, etc....
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Many may not be able to get behind what I am about to say, but I will say it all the same. What we saw on screen would not have been had Christopher Reeve not been paralyzed and ultimately died. This film was a memorial to the Donner films because of Christopher Reeve, and while I dig that aspect, I feel that it held down the possibilities of what could have been. But when I think about it, maybe that is ok, because we can get to Metallo and to Braniac later, but it better be sooner than we think. Part of me wants to say that we paid our money to see Christopher Reeve on screen again flying around being the hero we all knew his character to be. This was not DC Superman we were watching, it was a testament to everything we watched before...simply because we (and apparently Brian Singer) missed it so much. Kind of makes a movie you want to love, and actually like really well come across so questionably. I don't know, I'll have to come back to the movie again after all the hype dies down. I do feel that this film will be savaged by the fanboys in the future though, and that is the saddest, but truest statement of all...
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I feel that it was a good relaunch of the franchise. The improved f/x of Supes powers were great. This was really Superman I on steroids. That said, I kept thinking about the Matrix triology. Supes and Neo are pretty much interchangable. And the Christ motifs are too obvious, and numerous to ignore. I loved the underlying context of this movie and I think it will have the same interest as the Matrix triology did. I do think that this will not play well to the teen non-geek crowd (I hate the word urban because that implies minority who likes hip hop and I know a lot of Black and Latin kids who love hip hop but get a nice geek heartwarming story) The crowd I saw it with in DC was definitly mixed. There was some applause as well as some comments about how it stinks however, I think viewers who was looking for balls out action would hate this movie...but if you are looking for a great story and some context. Supes is the way to go. I would like to see Supes fight someone. Lex can and should be in the mix however I think there needs to be more action. We need Braniac, Doomsday or Darksied. The alien/ sci fi set up is there so I think Supes needs to face a threat in order to be great.
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Kevin Spacey had a couple of good lines but seemed like he was on autopilot. Imagine if Hugh Laurie played Lex Luthor like he plays House, that would be fucking awesome! That is in fact what I wanted to see, and would make the whole human lex luthor thing work. Becuase House is superman in his own mind and thinks he smarter then anyone else. Thats the only way to take on superman. Superman is Superman, but Lex Luthor is an expert internet forum troll and you just can't fuck with that kind of devious power.
I don't want to spoil much, but the only part of the movie worth the price of admission besides the overhyped plane rescue is the Bank Robbery. I thought it was lame superman has to stop common bank robbers when there is so much shit happening everywhere on earth thats a hundred times more catastrophic, but I suppose they needed setup for the money shot and what a shot it was. The whole movie should have been more of that, here is superman what kind of crazy cringeworthy shit can we put him through and have him walk out without a scratch.
Also if this movie is a continuation from the previous movies, didn't Lois already know Clark was superman and weren't they married even in part 2?
We all know superman in real life is the guy who drives out to the supermarket in the middle of the night to buy his wife a box of tampax, but did we need to see it on screen? Tampaxman returns! -
I saw the movie Monday night and was extremely underwhelmed by it. Visually, it's well done, and Brandon Routh, Kevin Spacey, and Parker Posey do fantastic work with their characters. With that being said, I think the story that they were saddled with sucks. You've got a big budget summer superhero action movie that's extremely light on the action. Sure the shuttle sequence is cool but that's it. Lex Luthors master plan is stupid and, when you think about it, makes absolutely no sense, and everything with the kid fucking sucks. In fact, pretty much the last third of the movie is a wash and the movie started to lose it's way about an hour into it. I saw this with two diehard Superman fans and both walked out it pissed off and dissapointed. I'm sure the masses will eat this thing up but, as for myself, I'll chalk it up as one of the most overrated movies since James Camerons miserable wretch of a film Titanic. Batman Begins this film ain't.
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Some people just wanted to love this movie so badly that they are willing to completely overlook the truth: That it's a big-budget remake of part 1 with all the character baggage of part 2. At least X3 gave us something we hadn't seen before. God bless Mori and Ebert for being honest.
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Jun 28, 2006 8:34:16 AM CDT
So aparently they are doing a Death of Superman film...
by benjamingrimm
The kid is probably going to be Superboy by the third film or, latest, fourth.
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I'm surprised more people aren't a bit more concerned over the tone of the film. Going into it, I was so looking forward to revisiting the Superman joy again.. Instead, he's brooding -- not only that, but Metropolis is a bore. No longer a Big Apple city of colorful citizens that love and adore Supes, but rather, stone statues of awe-struck extras. Not even one "Thank you, Superman!" (not counting the stadium, which was great). By selling the film as The World Doesn't Need A Superman, we never get to see the world connecting with Supes again. Not only should Lois be a hard sell for the guy, but he literally has millions of broken relationships in the world to mend and win over again. It probably all stems from the kind of grave film Singer set out to make, which is all well and good, though did anyone feel a bit cheated by the non-smile flyby at the end? Hats off to Ottman for figuring out how to inject one of the most rousing themes in film history to one of the most dour superhero flicks ever to hit the screen. God help us, the sequel needs to have people cartwheeling out of the theater. And one more thing -- how the hell are kids gonna react to this? With a heavily entertaining Pirates 2 coming next weekend, I can't see them asking for more Supes after that. Maybe the 3D will sell them, but I dunno. Overall, it's a very good film with pretty solid performances. I just miss the smile, the reassurance that Superman will indeed, never let us down again.
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Rachel McAdams, Anne Hathaway, Jennifer Connolly.
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That the people who usually bitch and complain about remakes and "Re-imaginings" are pretty much happily co-signing this movie.
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When Superman is doing his flight above Earth and smiles at the camera, at the end of the movie, he should suddenly react with alarm, to a huge but silent alien fleet (apokoliptian?) about to invade Earth. Setting the stage for part three. Awww, who am I kidding, I have no idea when Superman Returns premieres down here, and I don't really care either.
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He would have had to recast Superman as a bit older, too. I'd hate to say it, but this version of superman truly does look like a hero for the sterotypical gay guy.
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I think that is exactly what they're bitching about, Profit. Even the "thumbs up" reviews are saying the same things:t hey loved seeing superman in action, it had some intriguing parts, but it seemed like a rehash--which is okay since they havent seen superman in years and wanted something to come out. That's pretty much the gyst of it, I'm afraid. Oh, and Im sure its a pretty good movie: it lifted some of the best parts from the original, which is why ebert (and other more objective viewers) give this film 2 stars.
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Don't get me wrong there were two great sequences. It had some OK stretches. But also some boooooring STRETCHES. And absolutely ZERO insight into SUPERMAN (sorry guys - I know he had his emotional moments but for me they by and large were not earned). You had to get anything about his relationship to anyone in this film from Donner's films. And seeing Donner's version re-done was a waste. Like going back in time to High School then getting there and its a huge let down. Interesting that a lot of the West Coast TB'ers loved this film though.
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1. Did anyone think that Luthor was reconstituting that original green crystal which started the whole Fort of Solitude? Why would they make that kryptonite shiv look so much like that original green crystal? very confusing.
2. Does Marsden realy believe he is the father of this kid? Unless he got Lois into bed within a week of Supes, he must know that he is not -- so why is he asking Lois whether she loved Supes? Isn't the product of their love staring him in the face every morning at the breakfast table?
Answers please!
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right behind superman 2 and 1
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Pirates of the Carribean 2 will fucking rule!
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mori proves to be the only one with real credibility on this site. its funny that X3 had more negative reviews on this site and SR had more positive, and seams like more people came out happier about X3 than SR.
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Dude this site is way behind. Announced last Friday.
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I'm just afraid that the only movies making money are going to be kiddy cgi crap like cars. In the trailers there were like 2-3 previews for kiddy cgi movies and 3-4 standouts for more coming soon.
Sure, Over the hedge was decent but c'mon. -
Hey folks. Just saw the Return of Superman last night. Full disclosure: this was my first ever experience with IMAX 3D, and it was absolutely worth the extra four bucks. In fact, this entire movie justified the experience of going to the movies for me. Even with those bulky glasses
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Superman Returns Movie-8.5
Brandon Routh-9.8 (You can never beat Christopher Reeve)
Special Effects-10
Lex Luthor-8 (It was a combo of the comic book intimidating genuis villian and the original movies wanker)
Lois Lane-8
Richard and Jason-9
Real Estate Plot-7
Supes Leaves for 5 years plot-7
Action Sequences-10 -
The Talkbacker above me proves my point. Reviewers like him Love the character and are glad to see him on the big screen. No mention from this person is the plot (or lack of). Movie's like this arent exactly being viewed for the story anyway, but rather the character and special effects. Not that there's anything wrong with that, (hell, its why I hope to enjoy superman this evening, if you must know)but it is the answer to your question.
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I was referring to Repus's review. However, Tile proves my point as well.
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Who else thinks it would be cool to go out drinking with Superman...This bud's for you supes
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Routh is great. The Luthor character is "ok" but not worthy as a strong antagonist. Certainly not this "version" of Luthor. Where's Brainiac or even Doomsday? Or both? Lois is ok but not great. Would've liked to have seen a better Lois. Bosworth is no match for Routh's multidimentional Superman and doesn't bring out the full potential of the character. Lois needs to be beautiful (not "cute"), charasmatic, strong, smart and a challege for the Man of Steel, yet have a vulnerable side that she lets only Superman see. I'm not sure who has the acting chops to pull it off though. Maybe Kate Winslet. Cyclops is good. Who knew Marsden had it in him? The kid is ok but I don't need to see him any more. No kid story arc spanning the next 2 movies please. Action sequences are great. Cinematograpahy is great. CGI is great. Story is good. Screenplay is good. Music is good. For the next movie, no need to stick to anything in the old Superman films. Enough homages and what not to Donner and Reeve. You can keep the tragic love stuff in but give us titanic battles next. 8.75/10
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I went into this movie with the lowest possible expectations. Partly because I'm just not that big of a Superman fan to begin with (I mean really, how am I supposed to relate to a character that's got almost every power imagineable?). I've hated so much of the casting of this film from the start. Kevin Spacey is an overrated actor, so him as Lex Luthor?...no thanks! And as much as I love Kate Bosworth, she's no Lois Lane. Honestly, the only thing I did like about the film, ironically enough, was Brandan Routh's Superman. His Clark Kent was ok too, I suppose. Jimmy Olsen...well, any grown "man" still going by "Jimmy"...lame. Perry White...eh. Ok, ok, I also liked Parker Posey's Kitty Kowalski as well, because she helped me laugh at the movie when I'm actually SUPPOSED to laugh at the movie (as opposed to laughing because they brought Superman to a fucking generic hospital...hasn't anyone ever heard of STAR Labs?). And c'mon...Superman and Lois Lane have a kid? NO! NO! NO! And did the filmmakers think they were clever by "disguising" this 'Superboy' behind all his medication and asthema? So weak! Then there's the bit about how all of a sudden Lex Luthor is superhuman...I know, you're thinking "what?"...well I don't know about you other boys and girls out there, but I sure as shit can't punch a 6'4'', 225lbs man in the chest and make him soar through the air just because he's "sick"! Oh, and how about for the (hopefully never-to-happen) sequel, we just use the script from the first Superman film in its entirety? I mean really, so many are saying this is an "homage" to the previous films...I say it's lack of originality. And perhaps next time, we can get a lil' closure instead of leaving things so poorly open-ended? BOTTOM LINE: This movie seriously met and exceeded all my poor and low expectations. Why they didn't go the route of Batman Begins and completely start fresh, clean slate the franchise is beyond me. Poor form Mr. Singer, poor form indeed!
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I don't think I need to belabour the point but all of my fears regarding Superman Returns have pretty much been confirmed upon having seen it. Despite the great special effects, the movie's storyline is derivative and uninspired (okay, just plain dumb), the subplot is ridiculous and will hang over future sequels' necks like an albatross. The casting of the film's two principle characters (Lois and Clark/Superman) could not be further from the mark (without a doubt it can now be said that Tom Welling would have been a better Superman). What I would like to see in a possible sequel is a change of writer(s), a recasting of the characters (much like they did with Batman), jetisson the kid (no pun intended), and use ANY other villian from Superman's rogue's gallery rather than another tired Lex Luthor plot. Of course, I would imagine that it would mean replacing Bryan Singer as well, but it would give him the opportunity of returning to the X-franchise and/or finally making his planned Logan's Run remake (and having now seen Superman Returns, Singer definitely has experience with filming remakes).
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Well what do you think of that?!
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Just differently.
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Are you shitting me? Lex punches Supes across the room? For crying out loud, Singer couldnt shoot a fistfight if his life depended on it! I still remember laughing my butt off in Xmen2 when wolvie and lady deathstryke fight, and suddenly the 90lbs girl gets super strength, tackles him, and causes both of them to hurl 30 feet right into conkrete slabs, and crumbling them! That kind of crap really gets on my nerves and draws me out of film. Hell, Raimi did the same thing to me when Doc Oc could suddenly take cold cocks to the jaw from spider-man. yeesh.
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The studio saw to that. The Director is not all-powerful on a film...he is basically the studio's bitch in most cases. There are a few exceptions (Lucas, Spielberg, Woody Allen), but most of the time a good director just tries to do the best with what he is given. But a bad script is usually unsalvageable. The Superman Returns script is sucky and Singer developed it and had his buddies write it, so the blame is more on him than usual that SR is kind of dumb.
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down some stairs. So he goes across the room, but it's because he fell down a set of stairs.
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No see, He fell down the stairs and his shoes fell off goddamit! Oh and the movie ruled your nuts and you know it. Best film of the year. Fuck haters!
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Does the JJ Abrams script that AICN shitted on a couple of years back still suck, suck more, or should have been the Superman movie onscreen now?
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I wasn't as bad as I feared but wasn't as good as I hoped. I'm rather torn by Superman Returns. The first hour is a mess and it seems the film makers really didn't know what to do with it. All my worst fears seemed to be realized. Every role seemed miscast, all the pay offs for each scene were based solely on nostalgia, and the film making seemed to be rooted in the 1970s. Then the filmed managed to change and transformed into a modern telling of the character. Also the actors began to shrug off the earlier bad vibes. Lois Lan became confident, Lex became evil, and Superman became Super. After the inital appearance, I warmed to the costume and Routh being Superman. So I was wrong about Routh. Superman Returns strongest scenes were often not those with Superman but with his human co-chatacrers. This film had a better grasped of Superman being a God more so than any other film. Walking away from it, I over all enjoyed the movie. I even liked the kid. Actually the kid really worked for me and the ending scene with him made the movie.
The only part I really did not care for was Routh's Clark Kent. Which surprises myself since from the trailer, I was ok with Routh's Kent but not his Superman. Routh managed to make Superman his own, he couldn't move Clark Kent beyond imitating Christopher Reeve. Which is sad since it almost feels like Kent just wasn't needed for this film. There are only two scenes that Clark Kent was release used and both felt forced. I have to come down on the side that this wasn't Routh's fault either. I feel the film makers just pushed the tie ins to the first two movies so hard that they wouldn' let it naturally happen. -
Don't hate the player, hate the game bitch
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Yeah, I agree with you. Doc Oc couldn't take a punch from Spider-Man...Spidey's fist should have gone right through him and impaled him easily. And it was always stupid that Wolverine always fought chicks in the X-Men movies. Again, just poor writing.
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OK. Krypton is kryptonite..if his race lived on this planet then why the hell is he so alergic to it. He gets power from our sun, or the gravity or something that makes his physical makeup different then that of others yet biologicaly he can sperm up lois pretty good. So how can he breathe in space? why didn't everyone just fly away into space from his home world? If kryptonite made him weak how did he find a working spaceship on the remains of Krypton and still be not sick to launch it and what not.
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are you talking about? not even one thank you superman? The movie is loaded with crowds cheering him on, holding vigils outside the hospital and generally showing their adoration. The world connects with Superman again a little too eagerly, if anything. there should've been more exploration of the "you abandoned us, you weren't here for 9/11" type reactions.
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one of the few good movies this summer. routh was surprinsingly good as superman, did a good reeves impersonation as clark, and gave a big collective "Fuck you" to all the people that bitched about his casting, and whined about tom "wooden-even-for-the-wb" welling being a better superman.
bossworth was okay as loise,(once you get used to her younger look), and was nice to see a softer side of the character. spacey stole the show as lex (as expected), but for the sequel, please bring the big guns (darkseid, metallo, brainiac, doomsday..) as much as I like luthor, that's enough of him. the biggest surprise was james marsden, wich makes me hate x3 even more (knowing that the guy could have finally made justice to the character of cyclops given the chance, but still that idiot ratner killed cyclops just to give more time to wolverine again). even the kid and parker posey, who I was expecting to ruin the movie, did pretty good and weren't so annoying.
a good movie, and now that the "origin" story has been told,(yes, even if its a sequel), and the characters are established, is time for a bigger, better, more action packed sequel. and with x2 singer proved that he can handle those... -
WOW, if you didn't like it you are basically a jackass... To the guy wanting to know why Jimmy didn't age?? UMMM.. He was having a beer with Clark at the bar?? Seems to be they were both a little older (Routh is about 2 years older than Reeve when he did the roll)... The kid was really good, never annoying and just WOW. Lois was good nothing that blows the screen off but also not distracting either. Lex was good, so was Kitty (After watching Sups 1 & 2 last week they were she was perfect in that Miss Tesmacher way)... Can't wait to give Singer more of my money this weekend when I see it again, and again.
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You do have a point, my friend. The grave tone of the film still doesn't sit well with me. They might've cheered in the stadium and held a vigil, but I still say this Metropolis is a bore.
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I loved this movie. Action scenes worked great. I thought the scale was great. Batman should take place in a city and fight threats to a city, Superman should fight things on a more global scale, and he did. I was unsure of Routh as Superman before, but after seeing him, he totally fit the role. His presence just felt organic and natural. As for Bosworth, I know she's only like 23, but she really felt and acted like a seasoned reporter. The only concern I have is the kid. It worked in this movie, showing Lois had moved on etc, and how that can really drive you nuts. Think of any girl you've liked or had a crush on in the past who was with some other guy, and think about how you'd see them out somewhere, then seem them wander off together (to fuck) and you know the jealousy Superman must have been feeling. The thing is though, there's no easy way for Lois to go be with Superman now though. In Spiderman, Mary Jane can leave what's-his-name at the alter to be with Peter, and it's not that big a deal because there's no kid involved. With Lois though, for her to leave Richard would just be such a slap in the face, after having him raise this kid who he's thought was his for 5 years. I thought they were going to kill Richard off on the ship, which would have simplified this quite a bit. It's not unworkable, it's just going to be difficult, and is now a major issue in any and all future movies. Then again, having Richard slowly come to this realization could work out pretty well, like when he starts seeing his kid crush coal into diamonds. So in conclusion, everything worked for me, just wondering about the kid. It's kind of funny seeing this finally addressed in a movie, the issue of Superman and Lois pro-creating. Next they'll be showing The Things package in Fantastic 4 #2. Also, at the midnight showing I went to, some kid was in a crappy looking homemade Batman costume, and when he got up to go to the bathroom before the movie, he had to hold his glasses over his face to walk in and out of the theater. I thought it was pretty funny.
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Just cause Routh is literally older than Reeve was doesnt mean he looked old enough. For crying out loud, thats why Gary Coleman was cast in that stupid tv show--he looked the part! What would you have done? "Ahh man, he's not good as a kid cause he's literally fifteen years older than the part!" No, you'd say, "He looks the part! He's perfect!" What's so hard to understand that the guy they hired looks barely old enough to shave? Sweet Jesus! Hell, everyone above the drinking age seems to agree about this; how old are you?
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have you never read a superman comic in your life?
He's allergic to Kryptonite because (a) it's irradiated, not because it's from his home world and (b) because the writers back in the 1940s needed a plot device to weaken supes occasionally. He gets his powers from our yellow sun and has no powers under Krypton's red sun, so he cobbled together his old rocket crystal and used it as a spaceship. The people on Krypton couldn't leave because they didn't have superpowers. And so on. There are plot holes in the movie, but these ain't them. -
Superman is powered by a yellow sun. Krypton had a red sun. So that's why not everybody flew away. Krypton was also not a space-faring race. They kept to themselves, even though they had the ability to build rockets. Nobody escaped from Krypton because it exploded unexpectedly. Superman's dad, Jor-El had done research and believed the planet was on the verge of destruction, but nobody believed him and he was made a pariah of the scientific community. So only he planned for any escape, a ship for his son. The rest of the people were pretty much screwed as the destruction happened fast. Superman can't breath in space, but he can survive the extreme temperatures and hold his breath for a very long time. We didn't actually see him in space in this movie, except when he put the island out, the rest of the time he was in the upper atmosphere. Kryptonite is not just remains of krypton. Kryptonite is remains of krypton that were poisoned in the same chain reaction that destroyed the planet. Other things from krypton, like his crystals in the fortress, or his spaceship, are not poisonous and don't harm him. Kryptonite didn't exist until the chain reaction that destroyed Krypton.
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Waaaaay too brooding. For all the evisceration of Brett Ratner and X3's flaws - at least that movie was a boatload of fun. Not so with "Superman Returns." Where was the joy? Where was the wonder? Only one "fun" sequence in the entire movie - the rest was all about how Superman is all torn up inside. Snooze. A good movie, but not a good Superman movie. Routh was VERY good as The Man of Steel, despite the stupid changes to the costume. Kate Bosworth was passable - lacked some of the fire that Kidder had. The kid angle left way too much unexplained and pretty much went nowhere. The harshest criticism I have is that I'm really not excited about a sequel.
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and then hated it. big surprise. seems like people who didn't like it were too busy nitpicking insignigficant details the whole time and missed out on some great Superman type moments. I want to see this movie again, cause there were so many was of those moments I might have missed them all.
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Basic beats:
1) Superman returns to a world where Lex is President - but not THE villain of the film. 2) Lois has moved on but is single and without a kid (duh). 3) Superman unintentionally brings back Doomsday/Zod when his capsule returns setting up the big Supes level fight we should have seen. 4) Supes should be seen to do a whole number of massive feats saving the world - show him as the goddam Superman that he is. 5) Supes and Lois should reconcile and his identity be revealed to her. Much better springboard for the Sequel. Also makes the Clark scenes and his relationship with Lois so much more interesting. 6) Supes should of course defeat the monster, Lex should be working on a serum to create soemthing to destoy Superman. Now I know this kinda sounds like Nuclear Man here - but he should be working on ZZ-AR Zero Biological Intelligence (or BIzzar0, a serum to create supersoldiers for the military they should have the classic confrontation of Kal-El hovering outside Lex's office window, we should get an insight into Lex's psyche, why he hates Superman and what his presence means for Lex and this should set up the Sequel. Basically you don't need a massive re-boot for this franchise, but really they have completely shot themselves in the foot with what they have done in Superman Returns. Doing a re-tread of somethin we have alrady seen (albeit with crappier effects) is cheating all those people who've been waiting nearly 20 years for this film to come about. -
Saw this movie at 10 last night and went home. My brain was so fried with the most beautiful movie I'd ever seen that I've decided to be first in line at my theater's 11:00 showing this morning. Brilliant is all I can say about it. I don't understand the "flaws" you people speak about. I just want to make one point for all of you naysayers. I firmly believe that Singer approached this movie as a "Bridge" of sorts. A movie to reintroduce Superman into the collective subconsciuos of America so that he can really do what you want him to do on the sequel. See we needed a "requel" to establish Superman back into the stratosphere so that everybody could get reaquainted with this character that we all fell in love with in 1978. It's a bridge from the original Reeves version to Singer's new vision which I think will be made whole in the sequel. I think that the "Superhero" genre has that as a sort of curse. The first movies seem to be a set up for the second. Spider-man 2 was majorly superior to the first. X-Men 2 was majorly superior to the first. I have a sinking feeling that the Batman sequel will be majorly superior than the first. Basically, you get the feeling that the directors are there to "proove" themselves to you in the first movie and then are able to let loose in the sequel. That's how I watched "Superman Returns" last night and that's how I walked away feeling it was "brilliant". It's all about the context you put it in.
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http://www.cinescape.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Movies&action=page&type_id=&cat_id=270338&obj_id=51609
I know this is for Superman, but I didn't see this anywhere on the site yet.... -
Your Superman plot sounds like a J.J. Abrams rewrite.
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My reaction to the movie is the same with all the other nerds who have written. I love this movie, it isn't perfect, but there is much to love. I think the plot loopholes are big enough to fly a Boeing 777 through, especially with Lex's latest plan to make a buck and get revenge from Superman, and with the return of Superman and Superman's lame (the lamest of all the superheroes) disguise using a pair of glasses. I could fly loop-de-loop through these loopholes but I'm not inclined to, like I'm inclined to poke at X-3's faults to its death despite X-3's obvious merits (it's short, it's entertaining. So is masturbation.)
Singer focused instead on the conflict between Lois Lane, her son, her fiance Richard White and Superman.Lex Luthor and his plot are just McGuffins to put Lois in peril (though I enjoyed Spacey and Parker Posey together. Spacey's Luthor is definitely an improvement).
Routh? He can't bury Christopher Reeve. Yet you're convinced, he IS Superman. It's like, I guess there's room for their coexistence, two very good Supermen. You might think of that as a win-win situation?
What won me over was when Lois Lane was in the hospital. When she left, there was Martha Kent. I thought this is stupid, Lois Lane can go in but not Superman's mom? When I was driving home, I realized, oh yeah, she's supposed to be a secret, she CAN'T go in and claim to be the mom. Then when I was reading the online reviews, finally able to read spoilers, one reviewer pointed out Martha's moment and I simply cried. It was throwaway, it was a moment, but they did think of putting it in there. What if your son is sick, and you can't visit him, you're outside with all the other yokels and you're just as in the dark? I was kind of vacillating, not if I should love or hate this movie, but if I should be enthusiastic about it or I should be lukewarm. I definitely LOVE this movie, warts and all! -
Hey Guys. Although I
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www.hesaidshesaidlove.blogspot.com/2006/06/run-out-and-go-see-superman-returns.html
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At first I thought the kid was great, but then I got to thinking about it... Didn't Supes kiss Lois at the end of Superman 2, to make her forget their entire affair? So Lois just wakes up one day pregnant, has no idea why, and is cool with that?
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"You're site has become a home for gay bashing and intolerance. And you've done nothing to stop it. Hope you're proud of yourself and your "Liberal" credentials." - - - - Wow, geez, VanLingoMungo would you rather him use his "liberal credentials" to censor every comment and opinion you don't personally like!? Yes, indeed, you are the model of tolerance (sarcasm). If superhero fans don't like it when superhero movies are used as forums for a preachy, self-righteous, "you are a homophobic biggot if you don't think exactly like me" gay agenda, then people can express dissatisfaction, and mock, and ridicule it. It's their right. Deal with it. It's called tolerance.
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..non-intentional I asure you, look my plot was crap, but the point I was trying to make was that thye should have tweaked a few things here and there, some major admittadly, cause I think the ultimate Supes film is out there on the cusp of being made, the tip of every one's tongue, but some weird decisions were made for Superman Returns which really let it down. Look, I'm not really a massive Superman fan, but would love to really see him done justice on film. I think Spidey 3 is going to be the film to finally nail exactly why comics can make such great films.
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My fiance
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Apple have put up the new trailer for Lady in the Water. I have a question and it is legit. Why do Reviewers(aka Talkbackers) on this site constantly refer to a filmmakers sexuality and what the hell does that have to do with anything.
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You people that say this is a bad Superman film, watch Superman 3 and 4 if you want to see how bad it could've been. This was a fine film.
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Right after the shot in the eye. I did. I couldn't believe how substandard this film was. I don't know about the rest of you, but those special affects looked fake as hell. I never could buy into CGI. Brandon Routh, I hate to say it looked like a little kid trying to act like Reeve. All of the actors looked like they were just there to say lines and get a paycheck. If you are gonna pay tribute to the Donner film, than do it justice with actors who have at least an ounce of depth dammit!
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The criteria where if something is not horrible, it is great and amazing. Coincidentally, the same criteria that was used on X1.
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Seriously. And I didn't even really like the film. But you're a douche.
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Apple have put up the new trailer for Lady in the Water. I have a question and it is legit. Why do Reviewers(aka Talkbackers) on this site constantly refer to a filmmakers sexuality and what the hell does that have to do with anything.
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I pretty much said it all in my review - http://www.tailslate.net/reviews/film/reviews.asp?ID=278 - but I think my subject header sums it all up. The film echoes the original too much, and needed a heck of a lot more action.
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I saw the 10p, showing last night and couldnt have been happier. I didnt want to see a new superman movie retelling everything that we already knew. I wanted this to be an extension of the first films paying homage to Chris Reeves #1 but also for teh fact that Supes 1 & 2 were by far the best thing that happened to Superman. This film had alot of work to connect everything and I thought Singer did a great job of connecting the storyline. Everything had to be a reach altogether in this film b/c they could not have a 4 hour epic so for them not to give an explanantion really of where Clark had gone and why all of a sudden when he returns so does Superman. It also doesnt explain how Lois knew the kid was Supes after the kiss he gave her at the end of part II, but they did what they had to do to bring him back to the big screen without altering the image Donner had built for us back in 1978. I think this was just a bridge movie to lead us into the sequel which the writers can now open up their minds to continue their plot of how the superman movie should go...the kid, lois knowing he was the father or finding out herself when he became super??, new krypton, etc. In my mind this was a great movie overall for the way that they connected it to the originals. I can see the sequel being alot better than this though now that some things have been opened up and there will be explanantions for everything.
on another note, if you want to tie up a few things in the movie that you felt were missing...read the book as it is explained in further detail(his trip to krypton, Martha writing everyone postcards to keep Clark's identity still on Earth..only thing not mentioned is the kid's real identity although it is hinted at) -
I thought the movie was really good, and of course it looked amazing. But after you get all excited after that wonderful plane rescue sequence, you have to endure 2 hours of talking to get to some more action. Yes there was a little action thrown in the middle, but it wasn't anything really to talk about. I don't understand how, after the great Superman Animated Series and the Justice League Series, can we still have to resort to taking Superman's power away to make a movie. That was the idea in the first two movies as well. How can we make Superman loose his power. I'm sick of Kryptonite, I want to see some Superman fighting some Super Criminal with powers and see some cars getting thrown or some buildings getting destroyed. But, all in all, it was what I expected. It was a nice slow moving movie, with some great action, when it finally got to it. And the SuperKid....OMG, that was great. But here comes the kicker. When Superman did Lois in Superman II, he had his powers taken away and according to his mother, he was made human. How then could he pass on any powers to his son?
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Am I the only one who feels this way? I thought it was great up until the third act and then it fell apart, becoming a sloppy, unrealistic and convoluted mess. Plus, I thought Bale's voice when he was Batman sounded goofy. I understand the concept behind it, but it just sounded silly to me. Also, I was a little bit disappointed that the suit was rubber and not cloth (though that is nitpicky). And this Batman wasn't the detective he was in the Burton films. Christian Bale is a great actor, and gives a good performance, but for some reason I could never buy him as either Bruce Wayne or Batman. To be honest, I preferred both Burton films over "Begins." I'm truly astonished to see people cite "Begins" as the best comic movie ever. REALLY surprised. I thought is was average/slightly above average, but still decent. I liked Superman Returns better than Batman Begins.
Greats: Superman, Superman II, X-Men 2, Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2
Goods: Batman, Batman Returns, Hulk, X-Men 3, Blade, Blade II
Average: Batman Begins, X-Men, Superman III (guilty pleasure... just being honest),
Crap: Superman IV (better than the rest of the crap, if that is an honor), Punisher, Elektra, Daredevil, Spawn, Judge Dredd, Constantine, Fantastic Four, Blade Trinity (possibly the worst one of them all... almost hated it as much as Elektra, but at least Elektra made narrative sense). -
preferably Brainiac for 2 and Darkside for 3.
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Superman was cool. But the teaser for spiderman was better.
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(Spoilers)In the book it doesnt say the kid if Supes's and he does not throw a piano in the book either.
Good question about superman 2 and how he lost his powers to sleep with lois. That could be the loophole for the kid not to be super in all ways. And does Lois know for sure that the kid is Supes's before the piano incident? -
I felt exactly the same about X1. Back then, I'd seen the movie before I owned a computer or was even aware of AICN. I cant tell you how surprised I was when I learned that people on this site felt that X1 was the single greatest comic movie until Spider-man's debut. In the real world, nearly every critic I'd heard of and friend I had had given X1 a C+ average. I fear its much the same with Superman Returns: a B average movie gets geekgasmed off the charts here at AICN.
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Jun 28, 2006 11:29:15 AM CDT
Considering this could've been a McG film, it was great
by r.c. the "wise"
John Williams theme still gives me goosebumps. His second best theme ever, ...behind Indy's of course. Tied for the best hero's theme ever with 007.
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.....does he eat potatoes?
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I'm a X3 fan. Love the movie, enjoyed the hell out of it. Brett Ratner did a remarkable job with the limited time he had. Simon Kimberg and Zak Penn's script was a very good one. The hatred on the internet is unfounded and just spiteful. The movie ended up been better than the first, but not on the same level as X2. Singer did an amazing job with that movie. However, his outing with Superman was a super disappoitment. The time Singer may have spent with Peter Jackson spoiled him. The overbloated, long dwelling feel of a movie like King Kong, was quite apparant here. Superman Returns erases all of Singers good work on X1/2. Maybe he had TOO much control. Mayber he loved the character TOO much to step back and think about the bullshit he was putting in the movie. It's very, very odd that he fucked up HIS movie when X1/2 were fantastic pieces of work.
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So he fucks her, gets her pregnant, then kisses her make her forget about it. Now she thinks she's the new Virgin Mary.
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I'be been getting a lot of good feedback for my "John Wayne reborn" comments from other boards and I'm glad there are so many people who look at Superman the same way I do; I think it has a lot to do with a man's character. Believe it or not, I'm all for Superman having a child--so long as he's a good parent. By all accounts, however, it appears that by the end of the movie *SPOILERS* Superman decides not to raise his son--a very irresponsible and UN-Superman thing to do. Again, it only further underline's Singer's failure to grasp what makes Superman great--his moral compass.
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I agree with you on all points. If she did know that is was his kid then she would also remember sleeping with him hence knowing he was Clark Kent. I understand that she felt betrayed by Supes and had to move on but it is going to take alof connectors in th next movie to figure it all out. I am assuming she will know Clark is Superman at some point and will that just bring her memory back on everything?? PLus if he was human when he did sleep with her how does the kid have powers? it has to be explained in the next one I think.
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Yeah, like, doesn't she freak out a bit when her kids got superpowers? There's really only one culprit really! Then Supes is like 'yeah, lois, ah fucked yo back in mah icey crib. Then I made yo forgit about it coz showing yer me supercock also gave away my secret identity so ah had to give a super-forget-o kiss'
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I think in X-3 Phoenix did not in fact kill Scott, but send him to another dimension. Arriving in this dimension with amnesia, Scott found he had an uncanny resemblance to one Richard White, who had dissapeared years earlier, presumed dead. Scott's powers were still inactive. He assumed he was Richard White.
So he arrived in Metropolis to take that identity about a day after Superman dissappeared, Perry was so overjoyed he made him assistant editor, and he found immediate chemistry with Lois. While he still loved Jean, memories of her were blocked out, and the feelings of love he had were subconsiously transferred to Lois. Within weeks they had become deeply involved.
9 months later, a kid was born, a mutant, from Scott's mutant genes. The truth is, he didn't push that piano with his hands. He used an optic blast. You couldn't see it because it was off screen. -
Thats an excellent point. I had wondered if the film was going to touch on that aspect, but it seems that Captain Mediocre decided to hurry past this plotpoint. Looks like Singer fails to grasp basic loving relationships, to say nothing of the idealism of Superman.
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THEY ARE STILL KRYPTONIAN. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO GRASP?
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who honestly care for one another would deal with the crap that Singer's thrown at them in as an emotionally shallow fashion as Singer depicts thim. Is he like this in real life or something?
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Does Superman actually fly in this movie? Or is he still taking the goddamn bus like a fucking pussy?
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He is alien, no?
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That's right, I've got a ticket to see it at the IMAX tonight at 7. I swear to you all that i'll go in with an open mind and heart and am fully prepared to eat me words when I come back.
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Someone made refernce to the Virgin Mary and Lois Lane and not to get religious at all or anything but I had heard that they were trying to envision Superman like God or something so this could be the case here...not that I buy that at all but just a theory. Also, I think superman was doing the right thing about not interfering with the relationship with Richard/Lois and leaving the kid with them. He was raised by Earth parents and Jor=El watched his back as an outsider looking in....the same way it seemed to have ended at the end of this movie.
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It had waaaaay too much dialogue. They had to explain everything! Less is more man. Can you remember the entire speech that Ras Al Ghul (watanabe) said to bruce at the league of shadows? More importantly, do you even want to? No. Nothing memorable about that. I'm not trying to be moviemack here, but I've been so disapointed with all the movies that have come out in the last two years.
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http://tinyurl.com/2x4as -
I couldn't agree with you more. What about all that dough they spent on Jor-el with the computer skin graph etc... In the movie you can't even tell its was "redone" - they could have used a crappy 1970's out take - no wonder this film cost an arm & leg
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Most of the stuff I've been reading around the net said most people didn't like this film and it was a disappointment. I'll pass.
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some of the special effects were cool and the music was great too bad the plot was weak and Routh was the only one who nailed his part
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with the HUGE budget and obviously no studio fears as to the run time why didn't this movie WOW me? He is fucking Superman he is supposed to make your draw drop instead he made me yawn.
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But Goldmoon an native american?? WTF? Kill it with fire.
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Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....
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I watched the movie last night with my best friend who is recently seperated from his fiance and daughter. I myself was a child who didn't know who his father was until after he died. Turned out I saw him almost everyday, but no one was brave enough to tell me. We both couldn't believe how the film ended. I guess leaving was Superman's mistake and he's paying for it? Can't Superman tell Lois that he's Clark and ask to be in the child's life? Lois and Clark could simply agree to say that they had a crazy one night stand before he left on his 'trip.' The worst that could happen is Richard makes a connection that Clark is Superman. Richard is going to realize that Jason is Superman's son pretty quickly as it is. The boy can toss pianos. Where's the responsibility of Superman in this film? My idealized version of Christopher Reeve wouldn't leave things hanging like in the end of the film.
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fuck superman and his queerness, i wanna see spiderman 3 right now
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AlwaysThere, I am bugged that because I didn't like X3 very much at all you decide its unfounded. It is MY OPINION and I am perfectly entitled to it and am the world's leading expert on it. X3 had lame dialog, lame or little characterization, ruined the promise from the ending of X2, wasted the characterization of Cyclops and Prof X and wasn't very good. My opinion is not unfounded, its completely founded on how little I enjoyed a film I wanted to and tried to love. It was lame. It did have a couple of nice effects shots.
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without thaving that theme, yackbacker. To this day, I cant even read a Supe comic without picturing the theme music whenever he's shown flying. No matter the direction of the story, I think Superman has to have that theme. It would be like doing a Star Wars remake without its main theme; its simply too entrenched in the character. That march that John Williams was superman as much as Reeve was Superman. Crazy, huh?
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I'm sure he'd be pleased as punch at how deliciously hilarious it is. Not.
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Would hate Supes. Because, lets face it, you'd need to have forgotten to take your meds to enjoy Ratner's monkey style of filmaking. Superman Returns is for grown ups.
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Whoever that guy is, he perfectly summed up our apprehensions with the man of steel's modern take.
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Let me start of by saying, I haven
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Singer took away the idealism of Superman: his values are lost and disreguarded. He then stripped away the Americana of Superman. No longer is America mentioned and the Red and Blue is toned down. Singer than takes away the maturity, the strength, the leadership of Superman: he abandons his son, his people, and is depicted as little older than a boy. Is this the Superman I grew up with? Is this the Superman I'd follow? Or is this just how Singer envisions all men, with cynicism and smallness?
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the best in all of us, young and old alike. The possiblities and promises of goodnes, of truth and justice. Its no secret that Superman was often called the man of tommorrow: he truly represents our idealism, our hope, our dreams. What does Singer's Superman represent to you? Please give honest, heartfelt answers--even if they totally disagree with me; I'm very curious as to what Superman means to you fellow fans.
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I've read a few times here about the "plot hole" with the super-kid and how the super-kiss erased Lois' memory of being with Superman. I believe Singer said he was putting Supes I and II into a "vague history". This means every single thing that happened in those movies didn't necessarily happen in the history of Singer's Superman movie universe. I had some issues with the film but overall it was an incredibly well done movie. A better made movie than X3 but not as entertaining in a popcorn way as X3. But the man set up a franchise that has Superman displaying Silver-Age level powers, a Superboy possibility, a New Krypton that is basically an Anti-Krypton (possibly to be home for a bizzaro world of types), and still paid homage to the original movies that so many people think hold up today (of which I
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I know warner bros. is shitting their pants right now...... I like Singer though, I just wish they went with something original...
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...or in other words, the UK! Normaly, a big film like this would get a simultanious release, but a two week wait? I understand they brought this forward in the US, so as not to compete with Pirates, but why not bring it forward in other parts of the world too? Pirates comes out at the same time here. Infact it's out a whole day earlier! It's ridiculous. I'm gonna(grudgingly)wait to see this on the big screen, but by the time this comes out, a fairly large percentage of their potential audience in the UK will have seen this on bootleg, and it will serve them right. Cunts.
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Where was the battles at, they built up the whole plot with Lex's big plan and when Superman finally confronts him, he gets beat up and then that's it. They don't meet again, Supes doesn't fight anyone, there's no matching wits, nothing. It was the classic bad guy thinks he's killed the hero but never does.
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You're wanted back at summer school.
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Saw it last night on opening. I wasn't quite sure how I felt coming out, but overall it was enjoyable. After sleeping on it I think it's a great movie, just not what I expected. I'm not sure how well it will do, though. I remember in the last shot of him flying above the Earth, I thought it looked so beautiful, but at the same time in the back of my mind I was like, "This is probably going to bomb." I mean it is so different than what people are probably expecting. We'll see though. I really loved the relationship drama, but I wasn't prepared for the lack of action and conflict w/ Lex. They could have taken Lex out and rewritten the movie slightly with no real ill effects. It is really centered on the Clark/Lois/Superman relationship; if you understand that going in it will be a lot easier (I was thrown off by it at first, and I couldn't fully get into the movie because of it). Overall the best movie of the summer, at least until PotC2 next week. ^_^
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at least there weren't any giant plastic "s"'s flying off his chest in this one. the movie isn't perfect, but you fanboys gotta learn that just because it isnt perfect doesnt mean it sucks. there ARE shades of grey. only a sith deals in absolutes, heheheheheheheheh. i kill me.
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There's obviously money to be had in shilling for studios, either to support Superman Returns or to slam it and plug their movie. But the money can't be all that good, or the plugs and slams might be a bit more interesting to read. But I am not above trolling for a gig, so let me just say.... THE DEVIL WEARS PRADA will OWN this summer season! Screw Bryan Singer! Michael Bay is a MUCH better director. Forget Stupor-man! Wait for Iron Man (and rent Zathura while you're waiting). Don't go to this movie! Stay home and watch HBO! Curb Your Enthusiasm is ten times the comic book movie this is!
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Last week (after reading all the great write-ups) i was like:
YEAH! FUCKIN' A! I'M SO THERE!
but now...(after reading all the negative write-ups) i'm like:
FUCK!!! WHAT HAPPENED! I'm SOOOO
CONFUSED! GOD DAMIT!!!!!!!
oh well, i've got tix for 5:30 and
i hope they play Spidey 3 teaser too. -
What a let down, wanted to love this film, but it was just
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Ok. Let's get this straight, the whole 5 yrs off of earth, goos idea, they did it in the comics (not as long but still a good period of time). But, they should have done what the comic book guys did (with a lot less money for the story than the two idiots friends of Singer), Comics - Clark leave earth but give his folks stories he wrote about the whole underworld that they will submit every couple of days/weeks, he let's people think he's way under cover so no contact with his friends.. it's cheesy, I admit to it, but at least there is an explanation for his disapearance. However, the movie just goes - "Clark!!! Supe's back!!"... "wait.. where were you Clark?? Oh Well!".. Stupid is, stupid does...
I guess the "heads" that wrote the screenplay and story for this movie just wanted to destroy half of everything that was ever done for Superman.
Heck, they should have let K. Smith go for it, his condition, his story, no polar bears, no giant spiders! Freaking Streisand's Hairdresser and his un-educated a$$!
The whole kid thing, I'm not going to say anything about a character that should have never been in the story in the first place. That was the nail in the coffin for this movie. Singer screwed up a lot of things with the X-Men, yes it did a load of money, but still the essence was completely bleed out of the characters. Cyclops was a jealous teenagers with nothing that made him great in the books, and that can be said for every character in the X-Men films, 'xcept for Wolvie, at least he didn't scrap too much of his story...
ANyway Singer has proven once more that his personal ambitions are the biggest factor in doing a movie. The characters and how they evolved in the comics mean nothing to him since he never even read them. he doesn't care about the fans.
Are the effects completely amazing, yes. But anyone idiot wanna-be-director with 100 million could have done what he did.
He should have kept the "Supe's off of earth", but 5 years? That's alot.. way too much time...
And as they say, someone in outer space will probably get old slower than someone on earth, so basicaly, everyone should have been about 10 years older than him... Miraculously, averyone stayed the same freaking age as they were when he left... ?? He should have done the 1 year off of earth... not 5...
And I find it amazing that Luthor gets out of prison and Supe's returns a couple of months later... Good guess Superman! Came back just in time!
There are sooooo many things that are wrong with this flick, WB should have named it something else than "Superman"... Create a new hero that disapeared and came back... but play Superman's story like this.. I find it irresponsible.
I think I'll wait for Iron Man to come out ... Favreau looks like he actually wants to stay close to the character instead of destroying it.. Spidey 3... Hey Raimi is destroying the whole Venom thing... He should be on a boat with Singer...
But who am I to criticize, they're the one's who have the 100 million bank accounts...
Free for all!
FreeFinger! -
Yackbacker,
I'm still not convinced that giving Batman tights wouldn't work. Batman is very acrobatic in the comics, and this has never been adequately (or at least realistically) shown in the films. Oddly enough, Christian Bale is shown to develop fighting skills that would make his Batman seem acrobatic, but there is no follow through in the costumed hero. If he can be portrayed as a fast moving, intelligent, apparition like menace, I think it could work well. It would at least mean more movement out of Batman, who hasn't been able to turn his neck for five films now. It worked great in the cartoon (yes, it's a cartoon, but that doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't work in real life) and that is easily the best interpretation of the character ever done on TV and film (maybe better than the source material it came from, but your mileage may vary). The scenes where Katie Holmes opened her mouth to speak were awful. The Batmobile scenes seemed ridiculous to me as well. When Jim Gordon climbs in the Batmobile, I thought they no longer respected his role in the story. Gordon isn't supposed to be a superhero with gadgets. He is the cop who trusts Batman, helps him out, cleans up after him, and does the police work that helps Batman put people in jail or Arkham. Most interpretations honor this idea, but "Begins" makes it silly in the third act. The movie sinks like a stone when the fear gas explodes. A mini-island of poverty with drawbridges in a downtown Chicage-esque city? It was too silly for me. Batman flying over people's heads was also silly. That entire third act is just too disconnected and sloppy to allow "Begins" to be considered among the greatest comic movies. It was really disappointing, because 2/3 of the movie work so very, very well. With a rewrite, or maybe some heavy editing this COULD have been the greatest comic book movie ever. Here's to hoping that the next film makes a true detective out of Batman. -
...to prevent global warming. So you would be advised to go instead to see that film by the man who not only should have been President, but could also have played Superman.
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...so I'll not be seeing it again, says I. Instead, I'll be waitin' for the thrills and chills to be had in a real summer blockbuster. Ye know of which I speak.
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Superman had already given up his powers when he tagged Lois in Superman II, so why would his bastard child have any powers? His seed was un-super! If you want to go even deeper, Lois was standing in the unprotected area of the Fortress of Solitude with Luthor when Superman tricked Zod and Co. at the end of the film, so even if he had somehow passed on his abilities, they would've been wiped out. Just a thought. On an unrelated subject, did anyone else think the opening credits/flying through space sequence had the same quality CGI effects as a circa 1988 episode of Star Trek:TNG?
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Jun 28, 2006 1:19:46 PM CDT
If I only I had a magical remote so I could CLICK...
by lettersoftransit
..and change this to a truly funny Adam Sandler movie which totally blows away this pile!
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Jun 28, 2006 1:21:26 PM CDT
This movie will be killed by WHO KILLED THE ELECTIC CAR
by lettersoftransit
Talk about heroes. The incredibly talented people who made that movie. Don't waste your money on that corporate icon in blue and red rights. See a real movie about real issues!!!!!
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...so save your money and go see "Waist Deep."
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Admittedly, Superman's rogues gallery is kind of shitty ... but Metallo or maybe The Parasite might be cool on the big screen.
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The only thing he did wrong was to not say goodbye. It would be awfully selfish of the people of the world to fault him for wanting to know if his home world was stilll there. It is awfully selfish of so called fans to think this makes Superman an undecent guy.
He didn't leave his son. He had no idea. Now he knows and will have to grapple of what is really best for him. That makes him a good man. Also, we don't know yet how he is going to deal with it. The movie ends with him knowing. I find it weird that everyone is jumping on his case so soon about this. People here are jumping to conculsions and are not liking this arc because of it. We should let it play out in future movies before we can truly judge. -
Right up Garrison Keiler's ass!! F%%k Singer. ALTMAN RULES!!!
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Just got back from seeing this in a 25% full theatre. I'll admit it, I'm not the biggest Superman fan out there but I am a big fan of summer movies. Obviously, this one is a must. It also happens to be a bust. Slow. Not enough action. An extremely handsome wooden man in the lead role. Bosworth, yes, technically she's hot, and a good enough actress, yet for me, something about her keeps me from embracing her completely. What it is exactly, I don't know. It was nice to see Frank Langella who is ALWAYS great. Spacey. Oh, the hopes I had for him. He, in my mind was to be this films saving grace. Alas, even the great Keven Spacey could not entertain me enough. Parker Posey? Yes, she was good. Effects? Unreal! Overall?
6/10
(nothing has really connected with the people yet. X-MEN made a bunch of money, sure, but it didn't have people running to their friends saying, "You gotta see it." Again, same thing goes for DaVinci. The only thing that has connected with me as a moviegoer this summer and made me tell practically every person I know, "You gotta see it!" is CLICK. People are crying, people are laughing, people are having a geniune fun summer movie going experience. This thing actually takes you somewhere. Whatever. Bash away! Say what you will but I'm right here. GOOD STUFF! -
awah?
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Okay, let's review: No. 1, it
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Bash Singer all you want, but don't ever do it because he happens to be gay.
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I completely back you up that Holmes totally sucked the life out of Batman Begins. However, I also think that the ensemble cast as a whole did not entirely click. Freeman was boring, and do we really need a 2-time Oscar winner to play Alfred? Absolutely not. Burton was a genius in his choices of character actors to fill the roles. It was distracting and unnecessary.
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is the same age as his fictional niece(given the year that that movie takes place in). Just a cool piece of FYI.
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If kryptonite affects superman, what about his son? Is the kid anywhere around kryptonite or is on the kryptonite continent? Just curious...
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IS THERE ANY LIKE 'JOKER CARD' THING AT THE END WHERE WE'RE GIVEN A HINT AT THE NEXT BIG THING SUPES WILL FACE? That's why i though batman begins rocked so much at the end.. just seeing that card gave me uber drooling syndrome and the shivers........ if they hinted at darkseid, doomsday, brainiac in anyway let me know..... also does the kid die, or does mardsen die??????
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DOES KRYTONITE AFFECT THE KID? cause it should... and if it doesn't than this is realll shit... stupid singer, probably wasting all his time at gay bars, and sodomization rather than putting effort into this.
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The good news is Routh was good. The bad news is he's barely in the movie. I love the first Superman. But even as a kid I always wondered why he didn't fight cooler supervillians with more interesting schemes. Episodes of the Superfriends had more exciting bad guys then any of the Superman movies. This film lacked pacing, had slow streches, and failed to get me emotionally involved. Also, it had a million climaxes and all of them were anti-climactic. The kid is going to be a serious problem in any potential sequels. Besides the fact that he was annoying. You know...there was a fantastic short story on NPR's This American Life about the first guy to date Lois Lane after Superman. It was funny, savvy, and aware of the mythology. Also, it was a brilliant metaphor for love triangles. I am pretty damn sure these guys ripped it off. Which is totally cool. But they didn't do anything great with it. Which is a shame. Also, Lex's plot is the same as the first movie. Boring. And ahhhh...why is it Donner's effects are better then this one? So sad that we stoped the Ratner Superman only to get Singer's which seems as mediocre as McG's or Ratner's would have been. Someday I hope we get the Superman movie we deserve, the way we finally got the Batman last year. I won't hold my breath.
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Colour me shocked. Shocked! I tell you. On the plus side, there is only one more week till POTC2.
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... It sounds like it's going to be the cinematic equivalent of Brian Azzarello & Jim Lee's "For Tomorrow" storyline a few years back. I.E.: Great creators with a brilliant track record try their hand at a Superman tale and almost against all odds, manage to but out a great-looking, but incoherant and unsatisfying mishmash. Siiiigh! Figures..... Oh well, at least Supes won't be fighting a walking Mount Rushmore...
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Thanks beamish13, now whenever I remember this movie I will think of Brandon giving Singer head for the part of Superman.
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do you happen to recall the name of that story's author or the title of it? I'm very curious about it.
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You are acting like the world stops if Superman leaves. The world dealed before him. Is he supposed to feel bad he couldn't stop Pearl Harbor because he wasn't here yet? I will admit he should have said he was leaving, but to say he shouldn't of went would be selfish. All that said, it doesn't make him a bum or a bad guy. It certainly doesn't make him morally weak. Actually, after Lois's article would be published about his return and why he left people would understand. Other than Luthor being released, name something(established in the world of the film) that he should exceptionally feel bad for not being there to stop. You seem so attached to a carboard cutout old school Superman, that any change ruins your experience.
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He wasn't there to stop Luthor from stealing his own kryptonite crystals which he was going to kill "billions" with. Imagine if Superman had arrived just a couple of weeks later and all those people had been killed with his own toys by a man who went free because he wasn't there to testify. It is pretty damn irresponsible to leave without telling anyone, though. It's the equivalent of the Pope taking an unnanounced vacation without leaving a note. Just one day the Pope is gone and so is his popemobile and his popemosubmarine. The Pope is entitled to a vacation, but leave a damn note!
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As a screenwriter, here is how I would have done this movie: a period piece set in 1938 (the year of Superman's creation), using the original costume and powers set forth by Siegel and Schuster. I would make the lone concession for flight since it's such an important part of the character. The villains: Luthor and Metallo, but Luthor would stay in the background as the businessman pulling the strings. The plot: Luthor uses Metallo to wreak havoc on Metropolis businesses, driving their stock prices down and allowing him to buy up their property cheap. Luthor's goal is to essentially own the city this way, all at the expense of the people of Metropolis. Action: Lots of fighting between Supes and Metallo. Final scene: Supes hovering outside the window of LexCorp, arms crossed. Lex says something like, "Look at those people below. A man of your talents should be up here with me." Lex's girlfriends approach the window, beckoning. Supes says something like, "Sorry, Luthor. I'm not for sale," then flies around Metropolis as everyone on the strets points and looks up. Title: SUPERMAN DEFENDS. Maybe this isn't the most marketable film, but it's the Superman movie I'd want to see.
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"Kryptonian crystals" is what I meant, not "kryptonite crystals".
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This film just had too many plot holes...lots of things that didn't make sense. I'm not going to spend half the afternoon listing them, but if they don't jump out at you, then realize that having a low IQ does has some advantages.
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What kind of two faced fat retards would make fun of Christopher Reeve's memory, life and his family. That image is the most offensive thing I have ever seen. (It is more offensive than Drew Mcweeny sucking Harry Knowles dick to get a job here. I mean why else would he have a mustache and Harry not have one? So when they kiss they don't feel Bryan Singer gay. Just a Kevin Spacey gay.) When you posted that image you not only made fun of a crippled man (whom everyone loves dearly) but you are making fun of his deceased wife, and his son. Way to go Geniuses! That image needs to be removed at this very moment and an apology needs to be issued to the fans before the REAL media sees it and tells you it Aint So Cool to do that. And another thing, how can you ban people for making comments about the staff when you have that really offensive image that clearly points to Christopher Reeves? Why don't you answer these posts and be a man about it rather than be a pussy and ignore it because you can't think of anything to say about it! That is why! You all suck and are getting more and more pathetic by the minute. And Harry I am going to laugh when your "Tokyo Rose" doubles down on someone else
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With international box office, DVD, and most important: toys and merchandising, this will make a profit for Warners....but it isn't going to be as successful as many people expected...myself included.
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Dear AICN,
I have alerted the press regarding your shameful animation mocking Christopher Reeve and the disabled. I seriously hope that it was worth whatever cheap laugh you were going for when you alienated the handicap community. I simply cannot fathom your smugness. If the remarkable life of Christopher Reeve taught us anything, it is that tragedy can befall even the most -
You retarded retard.
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1. You pay $10 to see a Superman movie and the most memorable thing that happens is a dog eating another dog. Canine Cannibalism has it's place, just not in a Superman movie.
2. Lois has Superman's son, yet all you can think about is Brodie's speech in Mallrats and why this cannot be feasible
3. You read James Karen's name in the credits and when the movie's over you wonder out loud "Just where the hell was James Karen?"
4. Not one solitary moment of the movie lives up to the Clark vs. Evil Superman fight in the junkyard in Superman 3.
5. Not one solitary moment of the movie lives up to fight between Superman and Nuclear Man (Mark Pillow) on the Great Wall of China in Superman IV: The Quest for Peace.
6. You wonder out loud what the hell happened to Mark Pillow.
7. You start wishing Parker Posey had played Lois Lane instead of Kate Blandsworth (I mean Bosworth).
8. You wonder out loud what happened to Mark Pillow.
9. You look at this movie's acting and start appreciating the subtle nuances of Robert Vaughn in Superman 3 "I ask you to kill Superman and you can't even do that one simple thing!"
10. You wonder out loud if Krypton blew up and became radioactive (making Superman vunerable to Kryptonite), wouldn't he be harmed by ANY traces of Krypton floating out in space?
11. You start thinking Superman IV: The Quest for Peace was a touching masterfully crafted film next to this nightmare.
12. You remind your date after the movie to look up Mark Pillow on IMDB. -
Dear Engineer_at_peac, I have alerted the press regarding your shameful writing mocking the disabled. I seriously hope that it was worth whatever cheap laugh you were going for when you alienated the handicap community. I simply cannot fathom your smugness. If the remarkable life of the Guy Who Played Corky on Life Goes On taught us anything, it is that tragedy can befall even the most
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Lots of people wanted this to be a period piece. I remember at least three writers at different Comic Con panels that said they pitched it to Warner , but the studio poo pooed the idea because of... um... cost?? I guess a 1938 plotline would have gone over a 200mil dollar pricetag.
Plus a screenwriter doesn't even matter in a film of this size -- it's all about who's in the director chair. The two fucktards who penned this will never wrote anything without Singer standing over them -- and yet I meant that literally -
Please remove that icon of Superman in a wheelchair and i.v. It is mean-spirited, disgusting, and disrespectful of a brave man that many staffers of this site claim to adore. I would like to know which of you posted it, because such an offensive display demands someone take responsibility for their actions. If this request is not honored, then I will have no respect for any of you (and I'm sure there are others who feel likewise). I think an apology is necessary, but at the very least you could get rid of that horrible icon right now. You should be ashamed of yourselves. You disgust me. Mr. Knowles, this being your site, you should take personal responsibility for the total lack of respect and personal insult to Mr. Reeve, as well as the people who admire him, both the healthy and the disabled. Again, shame on you.
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can hate this movie...it was one of the most beautiful and heartfelt superhero movies ever, especially if you have a kid or aren't jaded enough to have lost your inner child...stop comparing Routh to Reeve...Routh owns the role, the same way Reeve owned it and George Reeves owned it before him...lighten up and enjoy a respectfully made movie that pays homage to the originals and does something different after its second half. Compare this to the first two Spider-Man movies and there's no corny-ass Green Goblin or sappy, drawn-out romance (and I'm a Marvel zombie). Wonderful movie, perfect for everyone, what movies are freakin' made for...
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In the "Look up in the Sky" documentary, the screenwriters are such pretentious, full of shit, little punks. You just want to slap them and tell them to go home to mommy or to screenwriting school. I'd ask "Who did they blow to get that gig?", but that would not be in good taste, so I won't say it.
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He would be a good Superman if he wasn't dead. And if this were the 70s. He would rule.
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Someone please explain to me how those three could go from a great X2 to a atrocious Superman Return?
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I don't really get it, but it didn't make me think of Christopher Reeve. Looking at it again, I still don't understand it, but don't jump to conclusions. It is offending so many people though that perhaps it should be changed.
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More people need to step up and express their displeasure over the icon so these Assholes know we are serious! I mean if it was a fat redheaded guy raping an asian girl, Im sure Harry wouldn't appreciate that. Or his mother wearing a Wonder Woman as her house burned down. I am realy sure he wouldn't like that at all. It is called respect for the dead, and Harry Knowles you and your fellow hard-ons need to learn some!
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I saw SR this afternoon, and I have to say that I was very disappointed. Besides totally destroying everything Superman, they managed to make the movie 30 minutes too long, and the story was very very very weak! I won
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No sappy drawn-out romance?? Did you see the same movie as me?? All that Super stalking shit, the recreation of the Reeve-Kidder midnight flight, the moment in the hospital, the moment at the end. I'm a huge kid at heart and love Superman, but that movie was just mediocre at best. You're standards are way too low my friend.
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Where is the avatar/icon displayed? I didn't see it.
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...is just plain nuts.
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If you loved a woman and could fly, what would you do?
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I myself see the icon as a representation of the Superman character on film -- this movie sucked, word of mouth will be horrible, and it's probably going to be many years before we see Supes onscreen again.
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I just got back from seeing it in 3D. While the screen was nice, the 3D was sparse, and really distracted from the action scenes. It wasn't the best IMAX 3D I've seen, either. Instead of having real depth, it just sort of looked like a ViewMaster slide version of the movie in the few spots where 3D was added. It was a gimmick, poorly applied, and doesn't add a damn thing to the movie.--- The movie was OK. I think it lacked "oomph" and could have taken more chances, but the look and feel were right. The kid was OK, but I don't like the implications of a future Superboy... And how will Lois explain to Richard when her son picks up a car some day? I dunno. It was good, but I would have preferred to see a villain that can challenge Superman on a physical, one-on-one basis. Watching Luthor outwit Supes again, with Kryptonite AGAIN, over a land deal AGAIN... It just felt very 1978, and I've already SEEN that one a few hundred times. I liked this movie, but I wanted to like it more.
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If you loved a woman, but felt a responsibility for protecting not only her but all of New York City, what would you do?
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Normally, I might write off the icon as an amazing lapse in foresight that wasn't necessarily meant to conjure up images of the disabled Mr. Reeve, but why put it up on the main site, outside of Herc's normal area, where we regularly see Harry's icon? I think they got a few giggles out of it, that's why. It's gross. At the LEAST they can apologize for not thinking it through.
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Because if I saw this instead of the one I saw in 1978 I would have said it was the best movie ever and the other one was crap.
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What is this? Mr. Smith Goes To Washington?! Chill out...that's Herc's character icon. Take your self-righteousness and calm the fuck down.
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I can't say enough after seeing this movie last night. I LOVED that Singer & team stayed true to everything...no swearing, no sex, etc. Singer knew he was making a family movie, albeit, it is full of violence...that's just Superman.
My wife and I have been so pumped about this. I got a Superman hat and t-shirt for Fathers Day, and my wife's pet name for me is Superman...can you tell we're big fans? (And I have been told that I have a resemblence to Dean Cain). Anyway, my 4 year-old and my 2 year-old have their own costumes and run around our house flyiing. I am THRILLED that my children are going to know this Superman as theirs. Although they won't see it for quite a while...the violence is a bit much for my munchkins. =) -
Mediocre because it tried to be a sequel to the Donner films but had so many continuity errors it was distracting. Mediocre because the villian and his plot was dumb. Mediocre because they destroyed the moral integrity of Clark Kent, who would never have abandoned Earth for 5 years just to find a few answers about his origin. Mediocre because Bosworth is terribly miscast and Parker Posey should have been Lois Lane. I could go on, but the 1978 version still is 1000x better than this movie. The effects in SR might be more believable, but that's about it.
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Perfect way to introduce Superman to a new generation...I wish my child was here already (due October 1)so I could take him/her to see it the way my father took me to see Superman: The Movie after working a double shift. My wife is no superhero fan and she loved it.
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your a fag. i have alerted the gay community that your coming on board. i hope it was worth it. your finally out of the closet. congrats.
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There is very little reason for Superman to EVER be blindsided by Kryptonite.
Well, maybe there's no reason for him to scan the island with x-ray vision for kryptonite, but I believe there is reason to scan the island, mainly to find whoever is responsible and see who's on it or if it is just a big empty island, and Superman with his telescopic X-ray vision would see kryptonite a mile away, especially when it's all over the damn place.
Then I find it hard to believe once he lands on the island he doesn't feel himself getting weaker or notice any kryptonite. Finally it bothered me that he just walks up to Lex, doesn't even check him with X-ray vision. Earlier he used it for trivial things like telling Lois which pocket her pen was in, you would think he would scan his archnemesis and his non lead-lined suit.
Another thing that bothers me which I didn't mention earlier. From being on top of the island for a couple of minutes he is weakened so much he can't fight back against Lex's goons. But when he gets healed up by Lois and goes back to lift the island up, there's just as much kryptonite on the underside of the island, and he lifts it up into space. Sure, it's buried a few feet above him and slowly leaks through, but as far as I know the island wasn't made of lead, he would feel the effects anyway. And at this point he still has a shard of kryptonite in his back(he must, since the doctors remove it later).
It was just very inconsistent. Comics are pretty inconsistent with regards to Kryptonite too, but not usually in the same issue -
This is the 7th Superman-related TB on the front page, btw.
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I was thinking about going to the Galaxy theater last night but I changed my mind. It was the running time and the rumors that it was "plodding". I didn't want to fall asleep.
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Kung Fu, I'm sure you come to this site and knew what to expect...why did you even go see the damn movie?
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Wow, this has been one sucky summer for movies thus far. I've seen X3, The Da Vinci Code, Cars, Click, and now Superman Returns. I wasn't a huge fan of any of them, but my favorite to this point has actually been Cars and I would only give that a 6/10. Superman Returns was just bad on so many levels and in so many ways. The chemistry between Bosworth (less) and Routh was awful. Parker Posey should be banned from ever making a good comic book movie ever again. I think Superman I and II were good but don't hold them as a Holy Grail but at least Donner did something interesting. Kidder and Reeve had chemistry. He made the movie (from the opening credits) seem like something special and big. Maybe the effects weren't great and the plot sort of plodding, but at least it was an enjoyable movie with people who cared. Bryan Singer, who I thought did a decent job with X1 an amazing job on X2, completely lost my respect last night. It has nothing to do with his sexuality, but has to do with him just making a terrible Superman film
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Nacho was doing to Harry, get your shit straight. Don't you need Harry's dick in your mouth? You fucking Faggot.
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And you even went to see it on opening day...
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You probably know never to trust any review on this site. I went in hoping for a good flick. It had its moments, and I think Moriarty's review is pretty solid overall. I don't get why you went off on Spiderman for the horrible GG villian, but give a pass to the ridiculousness of Lex Luthor in SR.
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i wish i had the remote from click so i could fast forward through superman returns and up to next summers spidey 3, because honestly, superman is just a queer. and his movie was outshined by a teaser trailer. for SPIDERMAN 3.
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In Superman 2, he was bombarded with the energy of a red sun, and thus his powers faded. He wasn't "turned into a human" but merely had his powers drained. He was still very much a Kryptonian after the red sun energy stripped his powers... And any son of a Kryptonian has the chance to absorb yellow sun energy and become powerful. The "cure" that Superman used in Superman 2 was to take a mega-dose of yellow sun, thus regaining his powers. The point of draining his powers with red energy was so that he wouldn't accidentally KILL LOIS when he was with her. Can you imagine the super-adrenaline pumping during sex??? He'd thrust right through her pelvis in the heat of the moment-- Or at least that was what he was afraid of. So, it's not a plot hole. He was still Kryptonian, even though he was charged up with red solar energy.
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Go, Harry! Woo muthafuckin' hoo! Know what else I love? Offending muthafuckin' defenders of free speech who then tell you to shut up, remove the icon, don't offend! How do you stand on flag-burning & The Dixie Chicks, 2Girth2Ferguson, Tai Pan, Jar Jar 4 Pres, Zooch?
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Can you explain how Lois knew he was Superman's son? Didn't Superman erase her memory in Part II?
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Sir,
That is not his normal icon, it has been altered in a way that is clearly offensive to quite a few people. Regardless of the intent, an apology needs to be made. And to Julio Franco, I didn't like the Nacho Libre image either, but it is nowhere near as offensive considering the circumstances. Mr. Black is a comedian who routinely uses gay humor as part of his act. Chris Reeve was the victim of a horrible accident that eventually took his life, and the icon mocks that tragedy. -
Kung Fu, if I saw the Green Goblin when I was eight I would have said he was corn-ball, the same way I felt about Supes flying around the planet in '78. Which was one of the wackest moments in movie history, even for Superman. Also, respect my opinion and I'll respect yours...don't tell me my standards are low hiding behind the anonymity of the 'Net, 'cause you wouldn't say that to my face...
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No matter how it was meant, it's in poor taste. Anyone with two brain cells should be able to put together that that image is quite a poor choice considering what happened to Reeve.
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If he's sorry for offending. Maybe. I don't find it offensive. I find it hilarious. Hilarious, I said. However, as a defender of free speech myself, I find your post (insisting that one should apologize for a free speech issue) offensive. Your post insists that one should stop saying things that offend you (the icon) and start saying things that you agree with/placate you. That is an affront to the concept of free speech and to me. I insist that you apologize for your offense.
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But you brought up GG and Spiderman in terms of SR, which I thought was worse in the villian department. A lot worse. But hey, I'm glad you had a good time. We'll see if they make enough bank for a sequel, which I will also see on opening day and hope is good...
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You can't possibly hope to maintain credibility over the animation/icon when you make statements like this: "I hope your Asian Raping Ass Burns in Hell Mother Fucker! BURN IN HELL!" -- Seriously dude, you're just jamming up our bandwidth here.
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Thanks Kung-Fu, but for some reason all I see is the Nacho Libre, no matter how many times I refresh it. Maybe they already removed it and it's still in your browsers cached files?
If you rightclick it and check "properties" it will give you the url to post. Thanks. -
The last refuge of opponents of free speech, a subjective point of resort. I love how free speech is the end-all, be-all when WE'RE the one doing the offending, but "in poor taste" when we're offended.
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You clearly don't have a solid grasp on freedom of speech. Asking someone to remove something IN NO WAY violates freedom of speech in any way whatsoever. If you understood the way that freedom of speech works (and again, let me stress the fact that you do not) you would realize that most countries who honor freedom of speech have a system wherein you can say whatever you want (provided of course that it is not incendiary or can cause immediate danger, such as yelling "fire!" in a crowded movie theater when no such danger exists, or saying "I will kill you" to someone, etc) but that does not mean that you have total immunity from the reprecussions of your speech. I have every right to ask that the icon be removed, and I have every right to make judgements about the merit of the speech (in this case, the icon) and ask that it be removed. StrangeCo, perhaps you should take a Constitutional Law class, or stop talking about rights when you obviously have a limited knowledge on your own basic rights.
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When the fake Aquaman movie is better than the real Superman movie, you know you're in trouble....
I sat behind an entire row of nine year old boys last night for the ten oclock show, and I can tell you SUPERMAN RETURNS didn't thrill them much at all... I wasn't thrilled all that much either, what with this being "The Search For SuperToddler's Baby Daddy" and all... Nothing like casting a 22 year old girl as the mother of a five year old boy, making Lois all of about 17 during the events of the first Superman movie...And for Christ's sake, give us a real honest to God villian?... Frank Langella and Kevin Spacey could have switched roles halfway through the movie and it would have been better... Note to Kevin Smith... I thought about giant spiders when I watched this, and even robot spiders would have been better than this crap on film. Kevin, I remember you were forced to put spiders in your version against your will, but when the villain turns out to be Lex with a large hunk of rock, you know the movie is doomed. -
These three nerdy geeks behind my wife and me talking through the whole damn movie about how this movie compares to Superman I and II and how Superman fought Doomsday and how the dog didn't look like Krypto and how the rocket didn't look like the rocket from the 1938 comic and how Cyclops shouldn't have died in X3...that's what was mediocre about my Superman Returns experience...
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http://www.aintitcool.com/media/konghorn.gif
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STRANGERS WITH CANDY is coming out. I'm gonna see that one in a theatre and skip on this until DVD, or better yet, HBO...
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Highly entertaining flick, and Routh was a lot better than I expected, truly channeling Chris Reeve.
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If they were just nerdy geeks, you should have turned around and smacked 'em. I can't stand rude people at the movies!
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I think it was changed, it's the right url, but it displays Nacho Libre, I think it's been removed and if you still see it, it's probably in cached files. Thanks though.
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It's funny that Superman is so shocked that someone stole his crystals when he just leaves them sitting there for any human to just walk in and steal. There's a reason that the keeps that shit locked up with a big heavy key in the comic books. And I agree with everyone that it made no sense that he left to go to Krypton. It was an incredibly selfish act that made no sense (along with 90% of the rest of the script). Bryan Singer just lost a ton of cred with this stinker.
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I understand COMPLETELY all aspects of free speech being not only an avid exerciser in both private and public life as well as earning my living by such. I'm a bit past the whole "class in Constitutional Law" shit as I finished my undergrad and master's degrees years ago. You have every right under free speech to ask for the icon do be removed. I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy. How about this - go fuck yourself and do it somewhere else where you won't be offended, asshole? Harry has every right to post the icon. I fuckin' LOVE it. I hope that he pisses off more assholes like you. That's what the world needs, more offended assholes in need of a large dose of Preparation-H(arry).
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I know I'm a geeky nerd, also, but damn, I wish more people liked this as much as I did...I know I'm just a sheep like everyone else sometimes and the studio's not giving me any money, but I love superheroes for what they represent...I just get the feeling people think this is god-awfel bad and I don't see it...you want god-awful bad...watch CCH Pounder die in Robocop 3...that's god-awful bad...okay, I'm out...thanks for responding, Kung Fu, hopefully Spidey 3 will kick our asses, cause the trailer sure did...
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It's clearly not Herc's NORMAL icon. Whatever. Now, for some reason, I think this SuperHerc icon has been on the site before. Can anyone confirm this? Is my memory even remotely correct regarding this?
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Wow, for being "a bit past the whole class in Constitutional Law shit," it sure seems like you just walked right out of elementary school. That was quite a temper tantrum you just threw.
I hardly see this is an issue of freedom of speech. I don't think that icon was put on this site in order to be offensive to the memory of Christopher Reeve. As I said before, I think it was an issue of bad taste. If it was put on this site to blemish the name of Reeve, well, then that is something that the people who run this site will have to live with in their conscience. I hope that no one would be that callous. -
Herc's NORMAL icon is EXACTLY the same MINUS the Superman suit. In other words, Herc's icon is the amputee alien in a wheelchair complete with I.V. In the updated icon, Herc's icon has donned Superman icon (to stand in line with old, fat, sweaty dudes?) to see the movie. Where's the offense? In the taste of jackasses who would be defending the VERY SAME ICON if it pissed off a group that they disliked. Say for instance that was Bush or Clinton in that chair as a double-amputee drooling in a wheelchair with an I.V. - imagine how quickly the sides would line up (and then switch when the face changed). ;)
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Well, aren't you just dumber than a bucket of stupid! At least ol' Tai Pan DOES understand that this is a free speech issue. What is a free speech issue in your esteemed opinion? Only displaying icons that YOU agree with and which YOU don't find offensive? The ICON you fucking dumbhole is HERC'S NORMAL ICON with a Superman suit on - IN LINE TO SEE THE MOVIE MAYBE!!! Assmunch. Yes, fucking idiots cause temper tantrums. It's been documented by the AMA. Since fucking when was Christoper Reeve a drooling, green-skinned, double-amputee in a wheelchair with an I.V.?!??!?!? 'Cause I must have missed that point in his life. Was it before or after begging that the tissue from aborted fetuses be used for stem cell research?
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If it wasnt for him..this movie would have been even more dragged out that it already is...it was way to darn long...Drag drag..drag....I kept waiting for luthor to show up again..and yeah the kid was a nice little twist..as he said.."your bald".."cute kid"....its ok..but just way to slow...keep tryin Brandon..its getting better..#2 will go better for you as superman..just need to work on it..
but not bad performance...peace.. -
I happen to be a law student. I'm not sure what "defender of free speech" means to you, but as a suggestion, I would advise you to gain a better understanding of what you claim to be defending. Where exactly do you see hypocrisyin my post? At what point did I make a contradiction between my actions and the act which I deride in others? Were you paying attention at all? Try and prove me a hypocrite. Go ahead and give it a shot, because I would love to see you attempt to demonstrate it. Or perhaps your understanding of the word "hypocrisy" is as flimsy as your grasp on constitutional freedoms?
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you retards. Some of you really miss the point.
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I found the whole "walked out of elementary school" comment VERY OFFENSIVE and I don't think it's a free speech issue (it's one of taste, in my opinion). Therefore, you should apologize and take it back right now. Right?
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Dear lofe101, my being a homosexual has nothing to do with the handicap and everyhting to do with tight, white shorts, which I am wearing right now. Your homophobia, in addition to your inability to use the word "your" properly, has nothing to do with the fact that I love Asian men and only nullifies your argument. Harry Knowles has offened me, the retarded, the non-retarded handicap, and you (the homophobic retarded). I hope that he is proud of his little joke which was at the expense of the dead non-retarded handicap. And I hope that you are proud of the fact that you have doomed yourself to having gay, retarded, handicap children, in addition to the children that you already have, which only look that way.
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Agreed, I was already clear on the nature of the icon. I am curious though, for some reason I have a vague memory of this version appearing on the site before. But I'm probably wrong. -- Now, here's a thought (for my own amusement): why doesn't anyone think that this animation/icon may in fact be in praise of Mr. Reeve? You know, a man confined to a wheelchair yet still remains the true Superman in our hearts & minds? Oh boy...Flame On!
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Singer wins the summer blockbuster race!
This was one film I can say finally made seeing films exciting again. It may not be perfect, but it's real damn close! -
My Asian boyfriend has brought it to my attention that the last line of my last post was a little harsh. I am making amends in the hope that you can forgive me and prevent me from having homophobic asshole children.
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It's all in a matter of context. If the image was meant to portray a member of your family who was in a tragic accident and died, would you find that icon offensive or would you see it as a tribute?
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StrangeCo, you have reached a paradox, I'm afraid. Just as this site has a right to post whatever it wants (to some degree), and just as you have the right to argue like a toddler, I too have the right to point out your elementary school mentality, almost completely free of libel.
I am not restricting someones right to practice free speech. I have not even asked that the icon be taken down. I have simply pointed out the obvious. As someone also already pointed out, an attack on free speech usually comes from a government entity, not from a person simply whining about the way something was expressed. Free speech remains in tact so long as there are those willing to fight for the right of people to speak almost whatever they choose. Once again, I would point out that while I certainly find the icon on this site to be in poor taste, I would never tell them to take it down. It is there choice to put it there. I only think they should be aware of the response it may ellicit from some of those who read their site. -
I think it's Superman's strongest cinematic adventure yet. The action was intense, especially the plane rescue, and it was much more emotional than I expected it to be. There was real drama there and I was happy to see that Brandon Routh fit the role nicely. I think I enjoyed him more as Clark Kent than Superman, though he looked great in the suit. Even the kid was pretty good (his last scene with Superman had me a little choked up). I knew about the big twist before going to see it but I loved the way it was handled and everything was resolved nicely. Bryan Singer did a hell of a job and I can't wait for the sequel.
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I guess that's just it, I don't view it even remotely in that context. Being familiar with Herc's AICN icon, it never occured to me that Harry & Co. were trying to portray an image of Christopher Reeve. So, what about the other animation of Harry (as the kid Superman) being crushed by a truck? Would that be considered offensive to those who had a family member crushed by a motor vehicle?
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Primary colors? Sort of. Check out the Superman Chronicles and the reprint of the very first superman. In Siegel & Shuster's first comic, it looked like it had a darker blue and more black on it than yellow or even red (save for the cape). As a matter of fact, there's a VERY old drawing of Superman that has the "S" emblem surrounded by the same yellow border but against a BLACK BACKGROUND! Yeah, that may have been a printing error and definitely was not something that stuck in the comics, but like Batman, I don't think Supes' original creators meant him to be quite as BRIGHT a character as he eventually became, both on and offscreen, even after they decided to make Superman a hero instead of a villain (see recent documentary "Look! Up in the Sky!").
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You are offensive to me because my family was killed by intelligent apes. Gaius is not nice.
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No reference to Batman himself, but Gotham is mentioned in the news reports on the televisions in the Daily Planet newsroom just after Superman's return and first heroics thereafter. Superman is actually stated as having been seen in Gotham. World's Finest, anyone?
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I'm torn. I agree with most of what you say but do ya have to be such a dick about it? lofe101 is even more homophobic than most of the aholes on these boards but I think that he was jsut pointing out that your message was confusing at best. Harry and Herc are assholes for putting up that picture and not even coming here to explain what they meant by it but posting a message that offends EVERYONE is not cool either. Everyone needs to chill until Harry and Herc say whether or not the post was an intentional poke at Reeve or jsut a mistake.
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But I believe you meant "Zaius".
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The kid worked because the theme of the movie was about feeling alienated. Lois from Supes. Jason from Lois. Supes from his Kryptonian relatives. he left Earth looking for a blood relative, when he had one on Earth all along. The story comes full circle at the end. A new Kryptonian race has emerged.
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We'll start by asking a simple question. As a law student (presumably an American law student), do you believe in and support the First Amendment as interpreted by the Supreme Court of the United States? In other words, do you support the First Amendment essentially as you've stated it (excluding speech designed to incite or provoke)? If so, then you should know the most famous quote related to free speech misattribued to Voltaire - "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Yes, the exercise of free speech rights presupposes consequences. However, those consquences should never include "shutting up." Economic? Sure. Your non-participation in the discussion? Of course. Your espousal of a contradictory viewpoint? Absolutely. But "shut up," "remove the icon," and "you can't say that; it's in poor taste," all serve to stifle free speech. Free speech cannot exist by very definition when some speech is not allowed. What is the purpose of free speech? To facilitate the exchange of ideas - EVEN THOSE IDEAS which we might find distasteful or disagreeable. Should NAMBLA "shut up?" No, of course, not. You have every right to insist that Harry's icon was in poor taste, but to defend your own right to say that it should be removed by citing a God-given, self-evident right IS hypocrisy. Free speech, including yours, cannot exist when the exchange of SOME ideas is stifled by those who don't want to hear them and insist on their removal. That, sir, is the antithesis of free speech. Disagree with The Dixie Chicks or not, they have a right to say what they say as long as they want to say it. You have a corollary right not to listen to or support their speech. No one can have a corollary right under free speech to insist that some not exercise their rights to free speech and then defend their right to say THAT based on the concept of FREE SPEECH. That's hypocrisy, again. Let me try it another way. Pretend that the vast panoply of free speech is represented by the 50 states. You insist that you and everyone has the right to move through all 50 states, freely. Harry moves to, say, Wyoming. You suddenly tell him that he can't move to Wyoming and must move out immediately because that offends you and others. But that's contradictory hypocrisy, you're told. Ah, but Harry can still stay in Wyoming, you say, but you can still tell him that he has to move out, that he can't go THERE. Or is it there? How about there? Disagreeing with someone's statement is one thing. Insisting that they not say it because it is offensive is antithetical to the very concept and nature of free speech.
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That's why I'm an Engineer at "peac"
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Action Comics #1. It was when he picked up the car with Luthors woman in it.
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Did you ever stop to think that Harry likes the negative attention. What does he have to gain by explaining himself? It's like that Kevin Smith bullshit, he'll keep this talkback at the top of the site all week to increase trafic. In the end he will say "Of course it was a mistake" and set everything right until the next time he insults everyone to get more clicks and sell more advertisement.
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close to 3/4 of the posts discuss dissapointment with superman and alot of people said Spider-Man 3 teaser was the best part of the movie SINGER JUST LOST ALOT OF "FANS"
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"they
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That's about all you can say about it if you are comparing to other superhero films.
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"Free speech remains in tact (that's one word - INTACT) so long as there are those willing to fight for the right of people to speak almost whatever they choose." As Lex Luthor might say, WROOOOOOOONG!!!! Free speech remains intact so long as there are those will to fight for the right of people to speak WHATEVER they choose, not ALMOST WHATEVER. Free speech DIES when ALMOST comes into the equation, chief. Because then you have ALMOST FREE SPEECH NOT FREE SPEECH. Agreed, however, that you didn't ask that someone restrict their rights to free speech because YOU might be offended. Bravo and my apologies! While that icon draws the ire of some, as you said, it's AICN's right to put it there and they'll deal with the repercussions, but what too many on the Left and the Right fail to realize is that insisting that the contrary to free speech be exercised by those who offend them is diametrically opposed to the idea of free speech itself and harmful to the continued existence of said speech.
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I really liked this movie. The biggest complaint I have is that it seemed like they tried to fit too much onto their plate. Can't wait for the sequel.
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I found very little I didn't like about it. The story elements some people are complaining about, while pretending like the first two Superman movies were somehow any better, is a joke. Ignore it. Go and enjoy this one. It is more than worth the money.
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I just read his review, and holy CRAP is that guy cranky. What the heck did he have for breakfast the day he wrote that review? Kellogg's Frosted Crap? Not only was he blatantly wrong about some of his comments, but he unloaded a bunch of spoilers too. What a dick. ******************* Anyway, enough about Mr. Grump. I saw SR last night and I enjoyed it quite a bit. I wouldn't call it a perfect movie by any means, but damn, when it was clicking, it was REALLY clicking! It got a little bogged down in parts, especially the end, but as a whole it was a flat-out fun time. Now, as far as the kid goes, I wasn't bothered by him - in fact, he did a pretty good job, but I am concerned about how he will affect the next two movies. Now that he's there, they can't just ignore him. What to do, what to do? Oh, screw it, I'm not done ranting about Ebert. His comments about the kid - saying, and I quote "It would have been fun to give Superman a bright, sassy child, like one of the Spy Kids, and make him a part of the plot." What the HELL is he thinking?!? Doesn't he realize how much this would've destroyed this movie? There was a time I respected Ebert's opinion to a certain extent, but not any more. not only does he trash Superman Returns, but he gave Garfield 2 three stars! What?!? He can't... I just... What the... Unbelievable.
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The garbage truck came today, so it must be Wednesday, so I guess maybe it did.
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And then ask yourself why the self-imposed arbiters of taste decided to be offended by the icon? When you take a look at the screen names you will understand that they CHOSE to be offended - funkydipshit, ZombieChrisReeves, juggfuckler, & tubbyhodges (I'm sure that both the tubbies and the hodgeses lost it with that one).
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If its government endorsed censorship, then that violates the first amendment. If someone is offended, signs a whole slew of petitions, and gets somebody fired and/or makes them change their behavior, that is NOT a violation of the 1st amendment. Put it to you this way, if I went up to your face and called you a worthless, cock-sucking cant cunt penicl-dicked motherfucker to your face, what would you do? Obviously, you'd knock the shit out of me or kick me out of your establishment (assuming we're on our property). Now, I know some of you in the back row are saying, "Gosh, Moondoggy, you're violating the 1st amendment!" Nope--other than assault, you would not be guilty of any other crime or infringement. There's a difference between government actions and PRIVATE actions. Class dismissed, assholes.
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Last night I attended the preview of Superman Returns, something I will regret for the remainder of my days. This film is an insult to mouth-breathers everywhere. It is a damning example of art by committee, as would be expected when a quarter-billion
dollars is spent on a thing.
Where , oh where, did the 250 million go? / Where, oh where can it be?
Burned on the altar of special effects/ that seem to be made-for-TV.
I cannot detail all of the problems with this movie. They were overwhelming. I would have to spend another 2 1/2 hours of my life , taking notes while re-watching this cinematic miscarriage, a sacrifice I am unwilling to make. Besides, my HMO doesn -
I actually thought more about it and have to say it does piss me off guys. Think about what the fuck you are doing, or are you trying to be all Emeniem (I don't care if I spelled the fucking name right) with yourselves?
Christ, you're not that stupid are you? -
The film never answered that.
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Dont answer that!!
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Anything you've said until now. Well said.
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You canine satellite degrader. ;)
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Careful now, strangeco, you've agreed with me on something. So starts the slippery slope of being right all the time;)
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at the imax theater here in Buffalo, NY. I'll come back later tonight to either eat my words (which I sincerely hope I do) or be horribly dissapointed (I better not be at 11.50) or just happy to be in a fun summer flick. Either way, its gonna be a lot of fun! T.T.F.N
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I have never been much of a Superman fan, not being old enough to remember the first 2 films, having only seen the original just recently. I really loved the movie. Routh owned and there were a lot of funny moments and the effects were the best I've seen. It was slow at times and took too long to end. Also, Luthor is a shitty adversary for Superman. Spacey was good, but I hope he's not the primary antagonist in the next film.
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I offer to trade you *Superman Returns* for first airings of *Doctor Who* for the remainder of this series/season as well as next year.
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My talkback name is a homage to Mr. Show with Bob and David, which is one of the best and most clever comedy shows of all time. Yes, I know it contains the word fuck, and that some find the word fuck offensive. The thing is, it doesn't offend anyone in particular. You say that we chose to get offended by the animation, but its funny, I don't remember making a conscious choice to get pissed off. I saw an emaciated figure in a wheelchair wearing a Superman outfit and it reminded me of the suffering of one of the bravest human beings to ever come out of Hollywood, which most of us here love and (sometimes) respect. I don't give a damn about the lame ass sophomoric free speech arguments from the grad students. All I know is that few people can look at that animation and not think of Reeve, especially the people who run this site. (If you didn't think of Reeve when you saw the animation, good for you.) I just think that on this of all days, Harry and Herc owe us some kind of explanation regarding their intentions with the animation. I am more than willing to take them at their word. The fact that they know that it is pissing people off and they are still running it without explanation is more than troubling, its insulting. It sucks that my talkback name offends you, but I am perfectly willing to state that it was not my intention to insult anyone. I wish the folks who run this website would extend me the same courtesy that I extended you, and that will be enough.
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So sue me. X3 had Beast, a childhood favorite of mine. Supes franchise won't do nearly as well as Spider-man... However, Pirates of the Carribbean 2... THAT'S gonna be big!
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for posting the same exact bitch(word for word) on every talkback on this site...we got it dude...you're easily offended...NEXT!!!
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If Welling is so "wooden" compared to Routh, how come Routh lost out the role of Clark Kent on *Smallville* to Welling? And that right there answers the $250 million question right there.
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You know, the cartoon at the end of any of Herc's articles, with a billowing superman cape added. Oh, and he's wearing a superman shirt as well, but the coffee IV is still there.
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Within the context of the modern superhero films, Supes Returns is better than X1, X2, and Spidey 1. But not as good as Batman Begins or Spidey 2. Hulk and Daredevil don't even make the list, and I haven't seen X3 yet.
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I was going to go off on a rant as to how bad this movie was till I saw the horrible piece of shit at the top of the site. Thats the worst thing ive ever seen on this site. A picture of Superman in wheelchair? Way to go Harry and Herc. You both are pieces of shit and I would have a kegger if you both were in car accidents!!!!!
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I was banned from this site because Harry did not like my opinion!! He has become the very thing he used to hate!!!
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Get rid of that damn animation! I know it's a not a deliberate joke on Christopher Reeve's behalf, but lots of people will make that connection. Movie doesn't open here (Ireland) until July 14th but I'm hoping to get to a press screening before that.
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The Imax in New York wants 14 bucks to see Superman Returns. For 14 bucks I should get the movie and a date with Kate Bosworth.
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Batman Begins has more actual detective work in it than all the other Bat-films combined. Surveilance is a key component of detective work, and both Bruce and Batman did quite a bit of it in Begins. Ask a deal decective (private or police) what constitutes a major part of their work. Surveilance, dear boy, surveilance.
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The last half of the movie was an absolute snoozefest.
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The right to free speech is not a right to say WHATEVER you want. This is not limited to items which may incite and/or provoke. Slander and libel are a perfect example. In this country you cannot say, print, and promote anything you want. That's not the way it works. As someone once again pointed out, a breach of the First Amendment does not occur when someone other than the government stifles, attacks, or otherwise censors inappropriate materials. I agree with you, NAMBLA should not be made to go away just because we disagree with the message that it is okay to sleep with adolescent children. However, we should speak out against those things we find offensive and vulgar and in bad taste. That is what the First Amendment was really meant to protect so far as speech and expression goes.
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Something tells me that a date with her would be worth more than 14 bucks....maybe I'm wrong...
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It was everything I wanted in a new Superman movie. When I first starting hearing about it I was a little worried thinking that the movie might not work but it all really did.
I really loved the way the public responded to Supes Return even though people might not have thought they needed Superman they quickly changed their minds once the remembered what it was like to have him here.
I guess the only thing that I didn't care for was the kid. Even though it was done as well as it could and worked I still feel the movie could do without the last grandson of Krypton. -
I just got back from seeing it. Overall I liked it. I didn't think it was great, but it certainly had its moments. Everything just seemed "all right" but I was never totally caught up in the storyline. Lois seemed ill cast but Brandon did a decent job. He wasn't my ideal Superman but he was good enough to sell the big points of the film. I'm surprised by how much his speaking voice reminded me of Christopher Reeve's. Kevin Spacey's Lex wasn't really that threatening and I guess the character is obsessed with harebrained real estate schemes. The movie felt long to me, and I guess that's because it was. Looking back, I think Bryan Singer made the wrong decision in bailing on the X-Men franchise prematurely to make this. He was surely pointed toward making a truly memorable piece of pop cinema with the final X-Men, but instead he decided to make a nice but already fleeting in my memory Superman flick that didn't really look up to its $300 million budget sometimes. The best news is that now that they have the preliminaries out of the way, Bryan can get along to making a real Superman movie (minus the fat). Um, ***1/2 out of 5 stars.
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Free speech means the gov't can't censor what you say or write. This is not the gov't. This is a privatly owned site and Harry can censor anything he wants. You may slink away now.
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just date your scrawny lil' brother, they have the same body.. also, in chinatown you get sucky-sucky for 5 dolla. so for 14 dolla you get 3 saki-saki, hawny long time.
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While Superman may rank as one of the top 5 comic book films, let us not forget the other fallen heroes. The worst 5 comic book films.
1. The Punisher (Dolph Lundgren)
2. Barb Wire
3. Spawn
4. Batman & Robin (1997)
5. Steel (Shaquile O' Neil) -
Now that was funny!
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This "kid" storyline works okay in the same way everything else in the movie works. As long as you don't think about anything beyond what is on the screen, you might be entertained. But whatever you do, don't stop to think what a F@#% Kal-el would be to sleep with this chick (somehow)and never commit to her or tell her his real name. Who knows how long this went on? Then leave for 5 years and still claim to be a hero. Just kinda sucks if you're a Superman fan. Of course, if this impregnation happened while he was powerless in Superman II, then it seems like the kid would be powerless too. In that case, super-memory-eraser-kiss comes in pretty handy. (hump, hump, hump... oh superman I'll never forget this night... I wouldn't be so sure of that Lois ...*smooch*...let's do this again sometime... 4 months later, I'm pregnant? But how? D@mn midichlorians!)
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Brandon Routh IS Superman
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If the kiss at the end of Superman 2 erased, Lois' memory - did she know who's kid she had from the beginning of the movie -- OR (!!!) did she only figure it out after the kid shoved the piano?
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I liked this new Superman movie better than any of the Batman films. I love the character of Batman in the comic books more than Superman by far, but it's just never worked for me on film. I guess Supes is more cinematic.
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Perhaps they are latent abilities given the half human/kryptonian genetic blending.
Perhaps The chamber in Superman II didn't rewrite Kal'El's DNA but rather inhibited the solar collection component of Supes, thereby effectively rendering him "powerless".
Perhaps it doesn't fucking matter because only ADD affected pedestriant minded brains require everything spelled out for them and spoonfed. I LIKE the vagueness of it. It opens up alot more story potential by BEING unexplained. I didn't need Brandon Routh standing at a chalkboard with a yardstick fucking spelling out to me the Physics of Superman for me to enjoy the film.
Fucking wank tools. -
are those fools who were gushing over the trailers and proclaiming this movie would be the second coming? They seem pretty silent. Come on, you know who you are. Don't make me call you out.
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I think AICN has reached the boiling point. Over so many years of speculative insight, minute dissection of the smallest of details, and generalistic viewpoints from readers, AICN has become a small little monster sucking the life out of the magic of cinema. Yes, they've looked behind the curtain too much. What was once a promising fanbase created by the likes of such movies as Star Wars and the original Superman, has now become a very dark and political entity. Judgements based on one particular image. Oversight of the fact that a movie cannot be a perfect experience. Judgement upon films based off of the smallest details... the smallest dislike of various storypoints. Let's not forget, Star Wars is not a perfect movie. Yet despite the many problems that film had, it still managed to capture our imagination. That just doesn't happen anymore. Until maybe now. While SUPERMAN RETURNS is not a perfect movie, it brings back an undertone of the magic we grew up with. When the John Williams Superman Theme plays out amongst the opening credits, those first few beats that tell our memories what is coming, the magic returns. When we hear the heroic music as Clark pulls his shirt away to reveal Superman. Those are the moments. We've all come to these talkbacks, and whether you are a regular or not, you know what happens here. We've forgotten how to love movies. We've forgotten that it's more than just hitting each and every note. The scary thing is, AICN is also read by studio executives. Now, don't get me wrong, AICN talkbackers do not have THAT Much power at all. No. However, these executives do pay attention. And the outrage that can be heard hear over the smallest details does SOME damage. But, Superman has returned. SOME of that magic from yesteryear has come along with him. When the film begins to show enormous success amongst the general audience, will it make a difference here? Of course not. Talkbackers will harp on the fact that the "kid" in the movie ruined EVERYTHING. They'll complain about Lex Luthor's plot saying it's ridiculous that he could possibly think that land would sell. LET ME ROLL MY EYES AND SHAKE MY HEAD. Instead of the cup being half full, or three quarters full, or whatever... it's always nearly empty. I went in with all of this AICN shit in my head, and now I know that nearly 90% of the stuff I read was speculative based off of people that hadn't even seen the movie yet. THANK YOU for that. The facts are, NO, Singer does not rely to heavily on the original movie. You are generalising if you think so. Yes, the opening music was there. Yes, much of the production design regarding the Kent farm and the Daily Planet was similar. Yes, Lois and Superman took another romantic flight together(thankfully with her poetry this time around). These are all used as undertones from the movies that we grew up with. I'm glad Singer did this because there is a familiarity there... comfort. I would have hated to see a total overhaul of everything. Yes, the Luthor scheme wouldn't work in the real world... but it's not the real world. Luthor's scheme in the first one is just as bad. But why does that have to mean that the movie sucked? It jsut doesn't make sense. Yes, it's weird to have Superman having a kid. But you know what, it's a different spin. Singer used him perfectly... meaning he didn't use him that much. No, he didn't write himself in a corner with that because the kid was only able to use his "power" once in a fit of rage seeing his mother being attacked. He's half human, so while he may have certain treats here and there, Singer did not and DOES NOT need to portray him as Superboy of sorts in the next film. These little details cannot take away from the master shot of this movie. If you didn't like the kid, or Lex's scheme, fine. That's okay. TANGENT. Anyway, at least for me, this was an eye opener reagarding AICN. I, as well as many others here, would get so angry for whatever reason to read all of this speculative prejudgement. But now, I can visit the site, and just not take anything so seriously. Yes, AICN has reached it's boiling point. In an age where Star Wars movies are gone, the power of this "medium" here has diminished quite a bit. Sure, there's Transformers to harp on and what not, but at least personally... my eyes have been opened. AICN, I love ya... you're a cool read... but you aren't the entity you were in previous years. Now, execs will look and say, "Hey, they're never going to be happy." Just like Singer did, and just like Spielberg and co. will do regarding Transformers and whatever else comes along. They can focus on just making the damn movie the best they can. Superman Returns is not the perfect movie... but what movie is?
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They reference GOTHAM CITY!!!! when the news reports are talking about the power outage.
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She fucking knew the kid was Supes.
"How could you leave US."
She wasn't talking about humanity people, the subtext was THICK.
She knew the kid was Supes, but she was protecting him by keeping it to herself, Supes and Cyclops didn't know. Lois did.
The magic kiss in Superman II wasn't so magical.
Remember, we are talking about a woman here LOL! And God knows we know what they are capable of ;) -
It'll be cool if Batman ever makes a cameo . . or they have a versus movie.
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Wrong....good movies get good talkbacks. If you look at the Terminator 3 Talkback, it was almost all positive, because that was a pretty decent film. If there had been a Talkback on Terminator 2, it would have been nearly 100% positive. Shitty films lead to lots of criticism in talkbacks and that's the way it should be.
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Luthor shanked Superman then broke it off. The three thugs started kicking the shit out of Superman while he was crawling. Superman DESPITE having a shard still in his back, powered up and lifted the whole fucking continent and took it into space.
If that shit didn't move you or give you a lump in your throat, fuck you. Your mother. Your cousin. Your uncle. Your brother. Your sister. Infact, fuck your whole existence because you are an emotionally crippled, killjoy, inspiration lacking turd. -
because it made no sense how he can barely move when the Kryptonite DRAINED ALL HIS POWERS, and then he can pick up a continent a few minutes later when he is exposed to the same Kryptonite. It would have drained his powers just as much. I guess you are saying his willpower made him able to lift a fucking continent when he had no powers left, but that's absurd. Once again, BAD WRITING that didn't make sense. Why didn't he just fly the continent up farther and recharge in the sun like he did 5 minutes beofre? The answer: BAD WRITING.
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I've learned over the years that whatever seeming consensus the 14 or 15 armchair critics of the Aint it cool talkback arrive at, the polar reverse seems to be the case, which is why I'm thrilled.
People bitched about the Star Wars prequels incessantly, yet the general public consensus is they fucking owned. I've never met one individual that didn't love them.
Likewise, the 14 or 15 turds loved X men 3, but everyone I know thinks it sucked harshly and powerfully.
So all of the bitching in here merely reinforces for me the fact Singer has unleashed an instant classic. -
It shows respect for the original movies, or at least the best parts of them, like Williams' theme and Reeve's performance. Batman Begins was so intent on creating a new, "realistic" Batman it ignored what had been done right by Burton and co. in the first two films. Batman isn't Batman without Elfman's theme.
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TAKE THAT FUCKING ANIMATION OF A CRIPPLED SUPERMAN DOWN NOW!!! BAN ME ALL YOU WANT I'M NEVER COMING TO THIS SIGHT AGAIN!!!
GOODBYE! -
The fact you can question it means you missed the entire point of it, Superman accomplished that little feat by sheer drive and determination and strength of WILL.
All logic and no wisdom. That's the problem with people today. He sacrificed his own well-being , powered up in the atmosphere, accomplished his task and saved millions of people in the eastern united states, then "gave up the ghost" and was overcome by the effects of the kryptonite.
It was fucking powerful. -
Love the movie overall its tremendously better than X-Men 3 but I am with Moriarty Lex Luthor is played out he does not need to be in every movie. I am so ready to see some Superman villains from the comics other than Lex in these movies. Granted Supes does not have the rogues gallery of a Batman or Spiderman but I would love to see a kickass movie involving DARKSEID invading earth he is in my opinion the best Supes villian and toughest battle for Supes. Along with him would also would come Mongul and the rest of the crew. I think it would be great if done right but it might cost 300 million to make though.
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...I really feel bad for you. I watched it last night and the whole sold out theater was clapping and cheering all the way. It was simply a great comic book film. It had all of the comic elements; cheesy plot, great action scenes, and well...a badass superhero. I'm really glad that you guys weren't in the theater I was in. That would have brought me way down. Once again, I'm really sorry you didn't enjoy it.
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Not impressed at all. The movie had a few great moments. But it was too nostalgic as a whole. Spider-man 2 is still the best comic to movie adaptation, and from the looks of the trailer for 3, it's only going to get better.
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I really enjoyed this movie. I should probably preface all that I'm about to say with this: I have never been a big Superman fan (the nerds gasp). As a kid, I was bored by the Donner movies, and I always found Superman just too invicible to be compelling. There there was the tights. They were just too silly to take seriously, like Adam West's Batman.
But this Superman just seemed more vulnerable. He was lonely and a bit selfish. And he was nearly killed by a simple act of brutality, what amounted to a prison yard shanking. This Superman is, more clearly, an alien without a home or a family, a refugee from a distant place that no longer exists.
As for the character development, I did not find it paper-thin. Every major character in the film had their own struggle. And, except for a few moments of high melodrama, these struggles were not expressed in overblown, sentimental speeches, but through subtles looks. That's called acting, people.
To answer a few other criticisms about the film: if you are criticizing Kate Bosworth's youthful skin, then you are a Superman underoos-wearing supergeek who holds the Donner films and comic books in such reverence that nothing else will ever make you happy.
As for the plot, I didn't find it to be anymore ludicrous than any other James Bond/Superhero plot. I mean, if you are willing to accept a tights-wearing, bulletproof hero from another world whose master disguise is a pair of glasses and fumble fingers, then why can't you accept that a psycho master criminal's plan for world domination would be, I don't know, psycho? This is Singer's vision of the world, not one I necessarily disagree with. The great threat to the world is still common greed. Not terrorism, or nuclear weapons, but greed.
For once in a comic book film, the events actually meant something. At the end, all the major characters were profoundly changed.
The kid was a nice twist, something that can be developed in future films. Singer didn't ask a kid to act beyond his range. Supe Jr. was quiet and shy. And the kid who played him was believable. Don't give me that, "it wasn't in the comic book" bullshit. This is a different medium, a different world.
This movie delivered all that I expected--action, emotion, humor and spectacle. It was super, man. -
You've never met one person who didn't love the SW prequels? You must live in the Bizarro world. I live in this world, so I guess we don't have a common reference to discuss anything.
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I was truely shocked by the kid thing did not see it coming. Here is my problem if they are following Superman 1 & 2 so I know Lois and Clark got busy in 2 but correct me if I am wrong Clark/Superman erased Lois memory at the end of 2 he gave her some kind of drink in the news room. That being said the kid thing is fine but why does Lois except it so easily if she does not remember having sex with Clark/Superman?
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Has anyone had the misfortune of seeing this without the Spidey 3 teaser? I saw it in San Jose this afternoon, and Spidey was nowhere to be found. Just a bunch of crappy, kiddy animation films. Maybe there's a different set of trailers for the matinee screenings.
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Please don't pity me for not loving movies with what you call a "cheesy plot". I think I'll be OK and can find movies to enjoy that have good, well-constructed plots.
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Lois can remember having sex with Clark/Superman even though at the end of 2, she got the super kiss that made her forget it, because Superman Returns was a crappy movie with writers who didn't care about this inconsistency or many, many others. That's your only answer.
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Whoo hoo!
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Compared to the BS we had to see in this film. The ending is so lame, I can't believe they put this together and ruined what could have been a great jump start to this franchise. John Peters' version sounds better at this point
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Yeah, weren't those crappy CGI kid film trailers just torture to sit through?...just painful! They'll probably all make a profit, but they just look BAD.
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Everyone I know fucking loves them, it's Star Wars.
Someone loved them, three films don't accumulate over a billion dollars in ticket purchases from bad word of mouth, single viewings, or no exposure. And you talk of reality?
Gosh, those films sucked so bad, everyone in the world rushed to see them.
The only people I've ever heard bitching about them were on this website. Conversely, the same cocksuckers bitching about Superman are the same cocksuckers bitter that Singer abandoned the X turd franchise, OR, bitter that Tom" I'm too old to play a teenager" Welling wasn't cast as Superman.
People talk about Routh band Singer being Gay, Smallville is TEH GAY. It is Warners brothers television, and the intended audience is Generation Y, metrosexual experimental bisexuals. You don't get anymore GAY than that shit LOL! -
There are lots of films with well-constructed plots that you can enjoy, but not many of them are comic book films. What was so much better about the plots of the original Supe films? Or any other superhero movie? They are all cheesy. That's kind of a given.
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The original Superman films are worse than this one. Maybe those held up better in 1978, but not at all now and when viewed with an adult mind. Anyway, just because most superhero films have sucked with bad plots doesn't mean that we should excuse that shortcoming and praise it in future ones.
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People rush out to see movies because they hope they will be good, not because they already think they are good. I went to see the SW prequels too (rather foolishly) and they sucked for the most part. The third one was entertaining, but still not a very good film. I know few people who enjoyed the prequels, but maybe my acquantances are smarter than yours...I dunno.
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About most superhero films sucking. In fact, I think it's a key component of these films that the evil master plan has to be way out there. I want the villains who don't care about killing half the world's population to seem bat-shit insane. I don't want them having any sense of normalcy. Plus, if you made a realistic film about killing 2 billion people, I think it would be difficult to make it fun. The violence has to seem ridiculous and cartoonish. It's one of the genre's primary conceits.
Also, I liked the symbolism. It wasn't so much the details of Luther's plan that mattered, but what it represented--destruction of the planet and humanity to increase the wealth of the already wealthy. -
You see thats what the dilemma of the talkbacks is, these hackneyed, wannebe arm chair critics have the audacity to somehow mispercieve that they are somehow representative of motion picture audiences and their tastes. That's the most laughable arrogance. You talk of more intelligent acquintances, and yet you freely admit you "rushed" out hoping a film would be good, then can have the audacity to say you were dissapointed after not one, not two, but THREE fucking tries?
Are you sadomasochistic or what?
If The Phantom Menace didn't do it for you, then Attack of the Clones, you STILL forked out 10 bucks to see the third installment??
You know, I honestly pity such cynicism. Anyone that didn't enjoy Star Wars or this Superman film I pity you. Good or bad films, that's erroneous and irrelevant. They are event films, generational legacies. And if someone is too uninspired and lacking joy in their souls to find a little smile or giddy excitement from seeing Obi-Wan Kenobi fighting the good fight, or Superman lifting shit and flying, you are INFINATELY dead inside, and for all the elitist self-smug logic and perceieved knowledge on what constitutes good versus bad film-making, you are missing the entire fucking point so. I could care less about trying to convince someone to like a movie, I enjoyed the shit out of Star Wars and Superman, and thats all that matters to me. -
The two main actors in this film have ZERO Chemistry. Lois has turned into a cunt. She doesn't recognize Clark Kent at a meeting? She stays silent in a crowded elevator? The old Lois would have been outgoing and spoken loudly to Clark, ignoring the "elevator silence" rule. Kevin Spacey is a shadow of the character that Hackman brought to the table. Lex Luthor has nothing to offer except he is really into real estate- which in the past was funny, here it makes no sense, its just stupid. Who on earth would pay money to live on a black rock? If Lex plans on flooding the earth, his island would honestly be the LAST RESORT anyone with money would want to pay to live. By then Lex would be old. Sorry to say this, but the writers were too young to handle such a heavy load. I'm 30 and I can't imagine writing Superman in my mid 20's. Bottom line - they should have restarted the franchise so that these new actors could develop their own chemistry and not try to pick up where three great actors left off.
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That was directed at one ObiWan_yaknowme.
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... I have to say Shut up, you HATERS! Crap, man, SR CAN'T be as bad as some of you are making it out to be. I had to listen to that shit with X3 and it was bullshit then, and it's bullshit now! Everyone who hated either of these movies needs 1) their asses kicked and 2) a good smack upside the head. What, does hating something good make you superior? To whom? Fuck you! ~~~ this rant was sponsored by Ritalin, making children less evil since 1954.
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Very disappointing story. Way dumber than I expected from Singer, after two near-home-runs with the X-men.
I wish he'd had the cojones to just do a total reboot. (Maybe minus the origin story, since everyone in the world already knows that crap)
The effects and action moments are momentarily satisfying, but after leaving the theater and thinking about what I've seen, it really feels pointless. -
That's not possible Sherm since I already owned Smallville's ass by not giving two rats ass about it.
No greater enemy than apathy. -
Most people at least say they really liked it. And are you kidding me? AICN talbackers ripped apart T3. Oh well. Like I said, I'm FINALLY numb to AICN talkbacks. Most of you will never be happy. Just read the shit that they've been picking apart.
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I was just thinking about that... Remember when there was a rumor that Roland Emerich was going to do the first Spiderman film after all the hype that James Cameron was making it and had dropped out for Titanic. I wanted to cry when I heard that... I was not terribly impressed with the "Power-Ranger" uniform on the Green Goblin, especially with an actor like Dafoe who's facial expressions would have been wonderful for The Goblin, but thank Christ it wasn't a Devlin production...If McG had gotten his soul-less hands on the Superman franchise, it'd have been just as bad.
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Real classy Harry. You must've eaten a bowl of dumbass after shoving three pizzas down your fuckin tunnel of a gullet you motherfucker! My father was a cripple in a superman suit with a wavy cape you insensitive cocksuck!
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Michael Landon would have made a good Superman? Interesting. But that would have been hella weird.
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Actually, if you go look in the mirror, I'm sure you will be surprised to see "Property of Smallville" stamped on it.
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Back in 78. Me and Bryan Singer are of the same generation, I guess; I probably have made the same movie he did, complete with all the flaws. (SPOILERS) Agree with the posters who complain about the casting of Lois Lane, the pacing problems, and the downer of Lex's big island. (A guy with this taste in clothes and women and boats etc. would happily rule over a continent that looks like industrial waste?) The sadness at the heart of it all either ruins it or makes it genius. But I will miss the feeling of simple elation the first one gave me.
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TO KRYPTONITE... someone answer my bloody question...
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POTC will own everyone's asses this summer, just like the first movie did.
I think I'm superheroed out at this point. Batman Begins was alright, but the rest have sucked.
POTC and Lady in the Water are the two movies I'm really jonesing for this summer. -
Luved the film. Ending was okay, but Lex left on a island? Cheesey. Best part of the opening credits was the planetary flyby of Apokolips... amazing
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He has this demeanor of entitlement to be where he is. He looks like he thinks he was persecuted and shit all his life, which he hasn't. If he was he wouldn't be a god damn hollywood director. On larry king he acted like a dick. Every interview i've seen the guy do he acts like a dick, and rarely smiles or laughs. THE GUY IS A #!@$@#$ING TOOL!!!
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So there must be something wrong with me. I wanted to like it, but, frankly, I was more let down after Superman Returns than I was after X3. Didn't do it for me. May grow on me, given distance, and a few repreated DVD viewings one day. But not satisfying like Spiderman or Spidey 2 or X2 or Superman: The Movie . . . not even close, actually. I got the same feeling after Superman Returns that I had after Fantastic Four, but I had lower expectations for FF and higher expectations for SR, so I may have done it to myself. Will I be back for Superman Is Still Here? You better believe it.
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I actually couldnt tell you a thing about Smallville, not one iota, and I'd really prefer to keep it that way, I innocent I tell you and I don't need a metrosexual bastardization of the Superman legacy like Smallville tainting my aura.
No wait, I lied, I do know ONE thing about Smallville.
General Zod supposedly "possessed" Lex Luthor LOL LOL!!!!!!!!!!
And people have the audacity to say one cross word about THIS film??
Great Ceasars ghost! Merciful Minerva!! Holy hypocrites Batman! -
is spielberg
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Did anyone else have the Ben Affleck trailer for Hollywoodland before SR? Affleck plays George Reeve - but without the Superman S on the costume, Lookeed like something meant for Lifetime Network.
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what a horrible "F'n" movie.lex luthers caper did not make sense. who would live on it? superman had no dialage? why did no one wonder where clark was? why did superman get weak right away when he landed on the krypto rock but not when he held it? why did lois remember there love affair that produced the kid when superman wipped her memory in the 2nd one????superman in the E.R. was retarded? why would lois put her son in an obviously dangerous situation while she investagates? no mother would do that.. why was she the only one who cared about the blackouts???? why did the black outs happen??? it doesnt really say!!!!! stupid stupid stupid....great effects dont make a movie...
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Gaius,
We could theorize situations where, given the correct circumstances, someone could potentially be offended, but that is not the important part. This kind of thing has to be judged in a case by case situation. If I make a joke about getting crushed by a car to someone who has had a terrible car accident in their past, then I would be relatively blameless (albeit very sorry to have even created the offense) because there was no way for me to know that saying such things would create an offense. This is not the same as the situation we are discussing. It is VERY COMMON knowledge of what happened to Mr. Reeve. Every editor and regular contributor on this site knows what happened. They were either making a joke at Mr. Reeve's expense, or else they were entirely negligent to the fact that the image would be offensive to people. Either way, I feel an apology is due. By the way, if you had made the comment about crushing someone with a car, and that person became upset would you apologize... even if you didn't know that you would cause harm by making the joke? Wouldn't you say something along the lines of, "Oh, God. I'm so sorry, I didn't realize..." I think you would, because I'm guessing your parents taught you how to be polite. In the same way, I think AICN should admit that they made a mistake. -
And that's both good and bad. Not only did he keep in the positives of Donner's original but he inherited that films flaws too. The bloat, the hit and miss comedy, the wacky Luthor scheme, the logic hole of Superman's powers. Many have already pointed out how it was strange that he was able to lift the kryptonite infused continent-sized rock with a shard of kryptonite lodged in his side and yet got his ass kicked with the shard in him by Luthor's three goons. It instantly threw me back to my 9 year old pessimistic self who thought, while watching the original film, "hey if he can fly fast enough to spin the world around and turn back time - how come he couldn't catch both missiles in the first place?!?!" Um, but once again, don't take my criticisms as faulting the whole film. Flaws and all, it worked more than it didn't. And the kids in the audience I saw it with loved it.
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By the end of this film which I liked I just wanted to see Superman punch something.
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obviously seeing a non fiction comic book movie is too much for you. Next time why don't you just avoid a film like that if your going to be so critical wanting every explanation. To see a comic book movie you have to suspend some belief and just have fun with it. When I hear people ask why he was able to lift a continent into space when it had kryptonite, I dunno, maybe you should also ask how a fucken alien can fly?
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Just saw it. Loved it. Glorious old school entertainment. Was worried about Spacey, Posey and the kid but they all worked. Made me think of a classy 80's movie with new, cutting edge FX. Singer did Reeves and Donner proud.
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While I was watching it I was mostly enjoying it, but the end was retarded... every scene with Lois Lane was cheesey, she basically ruined the movie, Singer didn't make me feel a lick of emotion for these characters, no chemestry what-so-ever. But Routh and Spacey did a good job in my opinion, I especcially liked how Luthor was looking for land again, and that his girlfriend felt guilty again. I love how Luthor needs a chick so bad that he lets her ruin all his plans, that made it feel like the original for me. But Bosworth sucked man, what were they thinking casting her? They should have cast Kate Beckinsale or something oh well, maybe she'll be better in the sequels when she's a little older....
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I think it's weird that people on these talkbacks swear, use homo-slurs, bash just about everybody, and then get all sensitive when there's an animation of Herc's icon dressed as Superman. Give me a break!
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No more Lex! Please, next time can we get Darkseid as the villain? I love the Lois & Superman fly thing. Fucking love that scene.
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did you read the other stuff i said dude... even comic book movie have to make sense.... the good comic book movies make sense...it does not have to be scientificly correct...dumb a hole.. to answer your ? he draws his power from the red sun...simple, it does not take much just good writting..i bet you liked daredevil
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Some traits you inherit from pops; others from mama.
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I posted this somewhere else, but the people who are saying that Luthor's new continent wasn't livable are missing the fact that it wasn't done being built. It was just starting! Obviously, it wasn't going to look great. Also, the comfortability of the new land is kind of moot, since it would be replacing most of North America and large parts of other continents. People wouldn't have a choice, really.
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sorry yellow sun
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For those of you saying, how did Supe lift the Krypto Island, a few things for you to consider. First, he did not lose his powers the second he came in contact with Krypto Isle. It took awhile. Second, Lois pulled most of the shank out of him. Remember him screaming in pain in the Huey, regaining conscioussness and asking how he got there? Third, Supe went up and got some sun regeneration before going back near the rock. Fourth, Supe went below the Krypto to the earth beneath and lifted out Krypto Isle. Remember seeing the crystal start to grow out of it when supe was in space with it? when he came in direct contact with the Krypto again, he came crashing back down to earth. I fail to see how this does not make sense.
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Just a question. Did you like Spider-Man 1&2? Or Batman Begins? Or V For Vendetta...etc.? because I ENJOYED the SW prequels but they weren't GREAT movies but at least I enjoyed them. But Superman Returns I honestly just didn't enjoy why does that make me ? And this may piss people off but Superman Returns felt alot like The Hulk ...Long, slow, not really engaging and lost control of itself during the final act...So tell me Obi_Wan why do I suck if I didn't enjoy Superman?
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first....they were not crystals they were green that was kryptonite.. second...he did loose his power right away before he got shanked luther punched him in the chest he went flying then his guys begane kicking him them he got shanked wich you would think would further hurt him....
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I'm sorry, but what pre-school/kindergarten gives letter grades these days? That was obnoxious. Sorry if this was posted upthread, too much to wade through. I loved Spacey and Posey, Routh was great, Bosworth acceptable. I agree - where were the editors? 15 - 20 minutes too long, especially the ending. 3 out of 4 stars.
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I totally understand a movie has to have some sort of realism or at least make a tiny bit of logical sense , but really your arguments are nit picking what is a pretty good film. Superman returns is not Fantastic 4, or daredevil (I only liked daredevil a tiny tiny bit). I mean instead of nit picking why don't we try to come up with reasons behind what we saw. For example. Why was lex in a crappy landscape, if I remember right, the continent was still growing. Once done im sure he had plans for it.
Also how was Superman able to life that rock mass, if I remember right, superman cut it out and dug deep so he had a good distance on the kyrptonite, till all the pieces falling down , and the krptonite grew out.
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Watch the film again with your eyes open. Try paying attention to what's on the screen this time instead of mentally taking notes about what's wrong with the lastest incarnation of your beloved superhero. Supe landed on the island and had a sustained conversation with Lex before Lex pushed him. Supe hadn't even felt weak at that point. As for the kryptonite rock. When supe was flying it into space, there were huge chunks of rock falling away before the Kryponite was ever exposed. That was protecting him from it's ill effects. How could you not have seen the huge chunks of earth falling off the thing? Singer lingered on it, as if he were trying to pre-empt petty complaints from little turds like you, but still you missed the boat. Your loss.
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thats too dumb for words.. the whole thing was kryptonite.....it was a weak film...plain and simple...ive liked evrything from bryan singer but this was junk.. i did like the flying scean with lois. that was good i guess i just like adult movies ruben sorry.....best cmic movies are(not in order) batman begins, both spidermans, hellboy, road to perdition, from hell,x men 2,and constenteen
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The shuttle and plane. From the trailers he had to strain a bit but now I hear he lifts an entire Island without effort, an Island made of Kryptonite. Yeah makes sense.
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Asking if I believe in the First Amendment is too broad. I believe that essentially, a protection of free speech should exist, but what that means differs from person to person. Whose interpretation of free speech are we referring to? Because we can rarerly get the nine most important lawyers in this country to decide as to what freedom of speech means, what it protects, how far it extends, and to whom. Your quote does not conflict with what I have posted in any way. Never have I denied anyone their right to post that icon. You are foolishly confusing my request for someone to make amends for an offense with a violation of free speech. This is absolutely ridiculous. By implication, do you feel that no one should be able to make a request Have you ever asked someone to take back an offense? To say that they are wrong? Are you secretly a part of the FoS oppresion machine(I'll bet you are, you oppressor, you)? Do you relinquish your right to criticise any artistic piece of work for fear of treading on someone's right to freedom of expression? Better yet, do you see how ridiculous your claim is? Let me tell you this, my right of free speech ALLOWS me to request that AICN make the changes I discussed. Now that you are saying I am encroaching on AICN's right to free speech (and, freedom of speech itself, apparentl), in doing so have you not infringed on my right to free speech (as you described it)? Of course not. By the way, are you attributing the "shut up" quote to me? Because I don't remember having written such a thing, and I'm not seeing it in my posts, so unless I'm overlooking it, please do not attribute it to me. You also had no right to state that I felt this was an issue of freedom of speech, because I don't see any conflict here at all, so please stop making assumptions on my behalf. And, as someone already stated.... FoS restricts the government from stifling speech, but not the general public, so your argument has been ridiculous from the very first. Your attempt to prove me a hypocrite was every bit as feeble and illogical as I expected it to be. Your analogy is so absurd that I don't feel it necessary to tear it to shreds. Your "Almost Free Speech" rant is clearly out of touch with reality, because it is a simple fact that (at least in America) free speech is not an absolute right (as has been pointed out several times). You'd do me a favor if you stopped talking about freedom of speech when you clearly don't command a developed knowledge of the concept. Oops... that probably sounds like a blow to FoS to you. As for the "arbiters of taste" people have the right to decide for themselves what they feel is tasteful... but it comes with consequences (much like FoS.... maybe this time you'll understand that). Oh well, at least you can console yourself with the unpleasant fact that you are free to continue blathering on about your misconceptions on the institutions of free speech and free expression. So by all means, blather away.
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Instead of calling it Superman Returns, a better title would be "Superman Lifts Heavy Things." Cause thats about all he does. First its a shuttle, then a plane, then the DP globe, then the yacht, then the krypto-island. He gets shot by a minigun and a bullet bounces off his eye (umm, yay). I'm disappointed that they bring the kid in cause it completely drifts away from everything we know about superman(now he's a dead-beat dad not paying child support!?!?) and Singer really screws the poops on any chance of a good "Death of Superman" movie since he lifted one of the pivotal moments from that comic, the hospital scene, and put it in this for some wasted suspense. Right up to the snapping needle and fried defibrilator. Another thing with the suit. Supermans suit manages to survive a barrage of minigun bullets, fire and sonic booms, but a bunch of surgeons can simply rip it off to make room for the defibrilator? Making a pseudo-sequel to Donnors films was the biggest mistake made here. Should have rebooted the series like they did Batman. Though that didn't do as well, it was still better than Schumachers neon-knight fagfest.
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I thought the reason he kissed Lois in Superman 2 was so she would forget that Superman was Clark, not that she hadn't been with him. Of course it's been a while since I've seen the movie, and I don't do near the drugs I used to do... At any rate, if I was Mr. Singer, that's the rationale I would use. My apologies if this was mentioned already, but I lost vision after the 87th whiny TB about something that had absolutely nothing to do with Superman Returns!
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But, at the same time, it tried to be both a remake and a sequel, and it didn't do either job very well. I also doubt that Supes II really figured into the backstory much. It was weird that there were absolutely no references to Zod and the phantom zone guys. Yes, Supes knocked Lois up, but the fact that the kid has powers suggests that the may have boffed on some other occasion than the Supes II fortress lovin'. The only direct reference to II is when Kitty remarks that Lex seems to have been to the fortress before.
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a little point they glossed from Donner's version to make thier new shitty movie work. The white crystals were simply filled with data - Brando even tells him "The knowledge embedded in the crystals before you..." They were meant for Kal-El to use as a sort of schooling. The Green Crystal was the one that could make the fortress grow.
The more I think about this movie - the more retarded it gets. Fuck Singer and his gay mafia Superman.. -
The wife and I both loved the movie. She's never seen a Superman movie, cartoon, comic, etc. and she's ready to see it again. IMO, that proves the success of this movie; when it creates a new Superman fan! Let the flaming begin. I'll try to stay awake and see if there are any good fireballs thrown my way!
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As long as you are answering questions, what the f is up with the Superman animation? Kind of poor taste don't you think? I'm not going to be like everyone else and wish you bodily harm and eternal damnation, but I'd really like to know what the hell you guys were thinking. Holla at your boy.
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For those of you making your bitchy little homophobic comments about Singer's sexuality, get a clue. Some of the best visionaries in the history of film are gay, not to mention a huge number of the hair, lighting, makeup and costume people. Oh, and did I mention the actors?
I'm sorry that you can't shake the memory of how wonderful it felt playing doctor with your dormmate Timmy at Camp Heywouldjablowme. I know that it confuses and frightens you, but that's not Bryan Singer's fault, not does it have anything to do with his filmmaking abilities. -
Singer changed the color of the crystal. Wah. WTF does it matter? Singer changed the color of the crystals that comprise the fortress, too. If Singer hadn't changed anything, it would have been the exact same fucking movie.
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usually gay bashers have homosexual desires and there affraid of it...there r so many gay people out there that people do not know are gay.. so many married men are bisexual it would freak most str8 people out but as most gay men know most guy who say there str8 are not
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What is the basis for your strong negative feelings about homosexuals? If not fear, then what? From a purely selfish standpoint, as a straight guy wouldn't you like the fact that there's a bunch of well-dressed, good-looking guys you don't have to compete with? I can see not wanting to be gay, but if you have such a strong negative feeling about homos, there is some fear there somewhere. And I don't mean fear of becoming gay. But fear of the effect gay people have on the world. That's still fear, and it's still homophobia.
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That's just lazy thinking at it's finest. I mean, come on! so what you're basically saying is that the answer to Superman's Kryptonite problem is Human-Kryptonian hybrids ( who are conceived when he's de-Supermanized) so that he has the best of both worlds? It's almost as sad and sorry an explanation as Harry's multiple Superman robots explanation for who takes care of business when Supes is away. Just as Mori pointed out. It's hilarious seeing all the Singer apologists trying to come up with all thee inane explanations for the gaping plotholes while simultaneously trying to over-hype a movie that has obviously failed to live up to its self-created and over-inflated expectations. Just face it, Singer dropped the ball, or at least has shown that he has all the originality of a Peter Jackson not doing an already popular epic.Zero. Interesting to see the similarities between this movie and King Kong last year. Both over-hyped. both over-stretched. And both exposing their respective director's utter lack of originality when remaking a classic movie. And I'm sure that bodes really well for all those looking forward to the Logan's Run remake.
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and cherry picked everything else. Go back and watch the movie (the good one - Donner + Reeve) and you'll see what I mean. I'm not crying, just if you;re going to work within the field of another film (not the books or countless other sources of material related to the subject) - use the established rules. Kinda reminds me of what B&B did to Trek. Took what they wanted and fucked it all up.
And I hear you Panterarocks and I agree. Fuck people if they are pressured to give into all this "I'm okay, you're okay" shit. Any group that advocates separatism (and that's what they do unless they want something... like a cure) can go find an island. -
"gay bashing singer
by veggy32 June 28th, 2006
09:47:07 PM CST
usually gay bashers have homosexual desires and there affraid of it...there r so many gay people out there that people do not know are gay.. so many married men are bisexual it would freak most str8 people out but as most gay men know most guy who say there str8 are not"
Or that's what Hollywood would have you believe. Go preach that shit to a bunch of hard core gangsters. Ask them if they like gays then ask how many are really gay. -
it would have been the exact same fucking movie.". So, Singer throws in a kid, completely screws up Superman's established character and throws in a whole bucketfull of plotholes and suddenly it's a different movie? Oh, yeah I forgot, the special effects were updated and the actors have been downgraded. So that's also different. But other than that; let's see Superman in plane rescue: check. Lex Luthor hatches real estate scheme: check. Superman tricked and briefly beaten by stolen kryptonite: check. Superman rescued by Lex Luthor's female henchwoman: check check. Nope, you're absolutely right, this is a completely different movie.
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It's not lazy thinking. The kid is half-human, so obviously he's going to be effected by Kryptonite differently. If we are going to get this analytical about it, there is really no way Supe could have ever lost his powers. They were based on basic physiological differences between humans and Kryptonians. I always understood Supe's loss of powers to be more psychological. Sort of like Spidey losing his powers. Supes genetic make-up didn't change. His supersperm were still superific.
I don't understand those that criticize Singer both for "a lack of originality" and for introducing a Superkid. Either, you want originality, or you don't. I think Singer did a fine job walking the line between being true to the other films and creating his own vision. This was in no way just an unoriginal remake of the Donner films. Supe was different. Lois was different. Singer showed us things we'd never seen before, while trying to pay homage to Donner. I think he pulled it off well. -
right on about superman but i gotta say your way off on king kong...that movie was fantastic...long but thats cool i like long movies.....it was not ment to be original it was a exact remake of the 1933 classic.. so there for it was not original...superman was not a prequel it was a movie conceived of as a new superman 3 and singer said he was going to prtend there was never a superman 3 or 4
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Go to a gay bathhouse and you will see some of those same hardcore gangsters getting down. There's even terminology for it in the hood. It's called being on the DL, in case you've been living on another planet. I used to write for a magazine that was located across the street from a bathhouse. On Sunday afternoon, you'd see loads of married guys, still in their church-going Sunday best, wedding ring on the finger, darting into the place. This isn't hollywood. This is reality. Go into any gay chat room and you will find 1/3 of the guys there have wives or girlfriends. Just facts dude. Sorry to freak you out with the truth.
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. . . I was so into it at first. I already knew from what I'd read that this was way more of an homage to Donner's films than the comics but was prepared to not let it phase me. I was overlooking the return of the FILM version of Lex (the used car salesman w/ the wigs & the bumbling sidekicks), I was overlooking Lois having the kid. I realized I was almost shedding tears after that fucking amazing shuttle scene. I was in heaven. Then the kid threw the piano. I KNEW the kid was going to throw the piano. Didn't matter, it still popped me right out of the movie. All of a sudden I'm yawning as Cyclops tries to fly his sea-plane & Superman is in a fucking hospital bed. This movie so had me for a moment, & then just dropped me.
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Wow. I'm starting to border on hated it. I loved it at the start... but by the very end I just felt like.. WTF! I'm not sure where to begin. Wow, like we din't see the kid being supe's son coming - and all that he does is halfway through he throws a piano at a bad guy. You know, at 5 years old if I killed a person, I'd have some serious psychological trauma - maybe thats why he does nothing but stare blankly for the rest of the movie. Kitty = Otis. Why does the most brilliant criminal mind have such a stupid sappy girlfriend? And how many damn shots didt they need of her being upset to get the point across. And the movie itself was so anti-climactic. Lex is left on a deserted island? WHAT THE HELL IS THAT? Did somebody forget to tell the makers of this movie that the bad guy is suppose to get defeated by the hero, and not because they ran out of gas. Jesus. And the person who pointd out how much of a cold shoulder she gave to clark, what a bitch. Not to mention the fact that clark is gone for 5 years, supermans is gone for 5 years and on the very same day clark appears again, superman is back. Also why did lois ask about only one network covering the shuttle launch - was there something to that? It was just like... wow that's insightfull but it leads nowhere. Oh and don't forget the evil bad genius listens to classical - how fucking cliche. And also luthor keeps talking about 'advanced alien technology' but never freaking shows any of that off - now that wuld have been cool if he had a kryptonite ray gun or something - i mean shit be a little creative other than saying how you will defeat the rest of the world after killion billions because you hae some advance technology. Sucked sucked sucked sucked.
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. . . the one half the Talk-Backers are calling for. The non-Donner-homage w/ a villain other than Luthor. I want Braniac & I want the Village of Kandor in a bottle. I want the super-kid to be shrunken down & placed in Kandor so that Superman gets even more riled up. And maybe, just maybe, Lois will look 17 by the time it's made.
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Okay, so the kid thing is kind of cool and no it does not (and will not) have to dominate every sequel from here foward. Think of it, he's half human, half kryptonian, we already know he's asthmatic and I think not allergic to krytonite. But he's a alergic to a shitload of human stuff and he'll probably only have half the powers (probably not being able to fly). He's only half super, so that can easily be written in a quick scene and then only use him when you need him. If you gotta get rid of him just have one of the daily planet interns accidentally feed him a nut or something and weaken him. I like it cause he's a weird sort of parallel but not quite. I think moriarty nit-picked way too much about shit only fanboys would worry about (can we say suspend disbelief?). The movie was brilliantly paced (cept the ending) and had amazing music/editing/scenic value (that boat!!!). My only issue was that I thought Superman got sick just being around kryptonite not that it only made him sick if it touched him, if I'm correct than how the hell could he lift that continent FULL of kryptonite, but once again, that's stupid nitpicking.
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But it was pretty decent. Visually, it was amazing, and wonderful to see a new superman movie...the first one since i was like 11 !! It really did lack a strong villain though. With all the damn money and FX, why couldnt they have him fight someone who is his equal in strength and powers??
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I think we all agree Lex Luthor is played out atleast the version of him from all the movies. I was dissapointed in the Lex from this and all the movies I had such high hopes for this one.
So who should be the villian in the next movie? -
I know there is a lot of positive buzz surrounding this movie, I know that a lot of reviews have been positive.
But a group from work tonight (6 of us) went and saw this movie. And I am here to say, that I haven't been this disappointed in a summer movie in a long time. I personally wonder if some of the people on AICN and other sites who orgasmed after watching this movie, actually *saw* the same movie.
Let me first state that in my opinion, Bryan Singer's sexuality (He's GAY), actually influences how he has made this film. Because in this movie, SUPERMAN is a PUSSY. There is just no other way to say it. This is a 2 1/2 hour date movie billed as an action-adventure. Had a less feminine director been given $300 million to make this movie, I guarantee you it'd be much different. Hell, I kinda wish they had made the MCG/JJ Abrams version now. At least from the script I had read a while back, it was going to keep you entertained.
The sad thing is that this movie has/had so much potential. It could have really made a statement, been something exciting. But all the excitement gets sucked out of the movie by the length (get ready to look at your watch because there are some major pacing/slowness issues), the waste of Lex Luthor's character, the plot, the lack of action, and the fact that Superman becomes a bumbling stalker idiot whenever Lois Lane is around. Batman is brooding because his parents died. Superman is from another planet and unique. He doesn't need to be the 90's sensitive guy all of a sudden who carries Kleenex in his utility belt. But that is literally what they do here, Bryan Singer emasculates Superman. Women will probably love this movie, but if the reaction from my co-workers is any indication, this movie will BOMB.
I mean the movie is just this emotional/sappy and boring movie. They really could have explored the angle of why Superman is needed in this day and age. They could have used all of those special effects/CGI to make some real peril (along with the plane...which was the highlight).
I had planned to see this movie several times (in IMAX also), but now, I'll be lucky to purchase it on DVD. And I was a huge fan of the first 2 Superman movies. What a shame.
You have been WARNED.
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...yeah, so to prove that he's original, Bryan Singer decides to throw in a kid whose very presence is basically an abomination to the concept of Superman's character (i.e. making him a deadbeat dad,), make Superman a hypocrite ( vis-a-vis " I'm sorry Mr. President I've been away for long. I promise it will never happen again" : and then instantly taking a 5 year selfish jopyride to visit a dead planet's ruins), oh yeah, and somehow manage to make Lois Lane even more stupid than we had possibly been able to ignore she was ( vis-a-vis, not knowing that she was knocked up by Superman, thanks to her kid's superpowers, and basically being incapable of connecting the dots between Superman's/Clark's simultaneous sudden 5 year disappearance and sudden re-emergence. Yep, Lois is different, as youput it, alright; she's even more dumber than abox of nails this time around). Yeah, definitely original. But then again, logical inconsitency and lazy sloppy screen-writing passes for originality these days so go figure.
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Ok, so Luthor has done away with superman. His continent is growing. Billions of people are drowning. But he has absolutely no way to defend himself against the army of any country. Sure, he claims to have "advanced alien technology" which I am guessing are embedded in the knowledge crystals - but fuck squat that is going to do him when the army/navy/airforce/marines mobilize against him 5 minutes after they recognize the threat he has become. God this movie sucked.
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These are the best three I can think of off the top of my head. I think Brainiac is the most likely. They should look at how they did it in the last Superman animated series atleast as far as Brainiac origin story. I would love to see Darkseid but we will probly get more lame lex and general zod again.
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Things are not like that in my hood. And why do I get the feeling with a handle like queerfilmjunkie, you're gonna be able to find gays anywhere.
Come on down to Detroit and you can tell everyone on the stoop about your "reality". The truth is a very low percent of America is gay... sorry man, but most men loves the ladies -
Or Superman: The Motion Picture. Or X2. Or Spiderman 1&2. I have to admit, I felt about the same about Superman Returns as I did about The Hulk. Or Daredevil. It was okay, but not remotely as compelling as his work on X-Men or The Usual Suspects. I'm not complaining about anything particular, not even complaining about the kid. I did have a hard time with Kate Bosworth, but would have given her a pass if the rest of the movie hadn't given me the "meh". Sure, the action set pieces were nice, but it just didn't gel for me the way it obviously did for a lot of people. I think I'm in the Ebert camp, amazingly. Yawn. Not bad, I'm not really all that worried about plot devices or plot holes, thought most of the actors were fine . . . it just didn't do it for me at the end. And what was the whole point of Supes in the hospital? Huh? But, I'm betting Singer will pull an X2, and put together a "Superman Remains" movie worth the ticket price. Oh, and I thought Brandon Routh did a great job and Kevin Spacey was fine, but Frank Langella as Perry White was pitch-perfect, as was Jimmy Olsen. Kate Bosworth? Meh.
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I liked the movie but to be honest I was hooked from the opening credits. The nostalgia over welmed me. So honestly singer would have had to really blow it compared to the Donner film/films for me to hate it.
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If it was out in the open, it wouldn't be called being on the downlow. Of course everyone is going to diss it in public. When did thugs become the arbiters of moral behavior, anyway? The violence against gays you imply in your posts might be reassuring or justified to you, but it's pretty pathetic to me.
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a sequel? Look, if you wanted really show Superman cut loose and kick some big time ass, what would prompt that? I'll bet the death (or murder, rather) of his son would. Imagine THAT scene in a sequel, with the right villian.
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Singer delivered big time. I got exactly what i wanted from this movie, a believable Clark/Superman and a reboot of my favorite superhero. To answer Harry's question "Did they relaunch the character in a positive direction?", yes 100% they did. I think the movie visiually was absolutly beautiful, Routh was not only believable but did a great job as Clark/Superman, and the story was pretty good. As many other of my fellow talkbackers i'm over Lex (thought Spacey did a great job, the animated series still has my favorite Lex adaptation) gimme Darkside or Brainiac please!!! Can't wait to see it in IMAX now.
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For me its not as good as Spiderman 1&2, X-men 1&2, but for me better than FF, Hulk, Daredevil, and a film which is better than these 3 but a major dissapointment X-men 3. Also think the original Donnor film could be better not sure yet.
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.....just to put in context what the public perception of this Superman and this Superman movie is, with pop-culture. Sad. I guess that heacy marketing campaign didn't work out as well as WB planned.....
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How was Supe a deadbeat dad? He never knew the kid existed. He left in search of his home and returned to find it. I think he did the noble thing at the end. I mean, he could have broken up Lois' marriage and ruined the kid's chance at being normal by hooking up with Lois and telling everyone he was the daddy, but that would have been selfish and shitty. As far as Lois not recognizing Supe, well, know one does. Blame that on the comic book creators. As I said before, Supe's only disguise is fumble fingers and a pair of glasses. That's just stupid. But if you are going to buy into the Superman world, you have to look past that. As far as the logical inconsistencies and writing flaws, I agree that most hollywood movies are horrible these days. We're already to the end of June and not a single, watchable, big budget movie has been released. I just don't see Supe Returns being this way. I think it was exciting and emotionally effective. I enjoyed the dialogue, both what was said and what was not. I'm sorry you didn't see the movie I did.
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The movie had it's moments, but they never added up to anything. I'm extremely disappointed.
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Somebody asked if there is a hint at the end of the next villian superman will face. It does. The hint is that the box office does so poorly, the next villian will be Alvin Nipschitz the accountant and his red kryptonite ink marking the losses this movie makes.
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Oh great. The one thing the Superman franchise needed was an EVEN MORE OVER-POWERED CHARACTER.
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Precisely. The kid makes Supe even more vulnerable. Plus, who knows the kid's lineage? Lex does. Those who hope we've seen the last of Lex are going to be disappointed in the sequel. Hopefully they'll do the same thing in Supe 2 where Lex teams up with some badasses to bring down Supe.
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It explored emotion and motivation far beyond many comic book adaptations out there. I've now seen it 3 times, getting something different out of it each time. Imax 3D was amazing. Anybody that has any guff to say about this movie is primitive. What exactly DIDN'T the movie give you that a Superman movie should?
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A X-MEN movie without Magneato as the main villian or a Superman movie without Lex Luthor as the main villian( I know you could argue zod and crew but they don't count because I say so)
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I have never felt like Singer's sexual preference has ruined any of his movies. I don't believe he made Superman gay. Everyone involved missed the mark of making an exciting and fun summer movie. Nobody made Superman gay.
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In fact, it looked pretty damn cool, and we got to see possibly the greatest feat of Superman's strength ever by lifted the whole damn krypto-island into space. Did the plot make any more sense than Dr. Octopus' harnessing the power sun plan from Spiderman 2? Come to think of it, Lex's plan was alot cooler than most supervillian plans I've ever seen.
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.....let's see, by not using protection, and then knocking up the kid's mom, and then wiping her memory of all those events. Oh wait, you're right, he's not a deadbeat dad; he's a government grade-A creep. Or the equivalent of a rohybdinal ( whatever the date-rape drug is called) sex predator who deosn't wear a rubber. Yeah, you're definitely right, that's much better than a Deadbeat dad.
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What didn't it give me? It didn't give me Superman opening up a can of whuppasss on someone or something that could whip him to. Besides someone useing kyptonite like always lame!
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Yes he is. He is not financially supporting the child, is he? He just flies off and leaves that to lois. He doesn't offer to help does he? WHAT THE HELL IS THAT? Some nice promoting of traditional american values. I won't fault singer for being gay, but nice fucking liberal bullshit values he infused into the film. He should have stayed on the Xmen films which were a perfect allegory for his homosexual agenda.
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But I don't give a rat's ass. Yes, Superman Returns was a great film. One nagging problem for me though. And no, it was not the kid. The kid was actually a welcome addition and I can't wait to see what they develop him to be. It was Kate Bosworth. She was not a good Lois Lane. She had no chemistry with Brandon Routh, and she came off as wooden and a bitch. Everybody else was great. I can't wait for the sequel
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Lex is told that his henchman was just killed by a piano. He doesn't immediately recognize that the kid is superman's son? He had to. Now being an evil amoral person, he would immediately take that kid and use him as leverage. He would want that kid dead. He has the kryptonite spear and he knew by the kids reaction that the kryptonite affected him. No... he doesn't do this... he just flies off with his girlfriend Otis. Why the hell would he not kill that kid instantly. Did I mention this movie sucked?
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Pardon me if I didn't recognize the Christian love and charity in your previous post, where you screamed, "Blow me." I know that you fundamentalists are taught to hate the sin and love the sinner, but that's as semantic as it gets. As far as not being afraid of homos, aren't Christians taught to fear hell? Isn't a sinful life what sends you to hell? If sin leads to hell, and hell is a terrifying place, then wouldn't Christians be afraid of sin? It's basic logic. Ipso facto homo.
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I guess technically he's a deadbeat dad, but there's no feasible way he can be a regular part of that kid's life. This isn't a situation where some guy isn't taking responsibility for his actions. He's Superman! He'll be "around," but he can't be involved, Richard White aside.
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WOW, i went with 4 friends.
they thought it was poor to fair.
i thought it was poor.
NO Spidey 3 teaser either. Grrrrrr.
where did the 250 mil go?
HOLY FUCK WHAT A DULL TAC.
What a fuckin' soapopera.
(oh, and we all agreed that even though we ALL thought X3 was Not Great....it was better / more fun than Supes Returnzzzzzzzzzzz -
Superman has battled villians that could match him power-for-powers and he has battled villains who use krytonite, like Lex. we have seen both.
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how the little bastard got his powers when Superman fucked her when he wasn't super??? Just a little fucking plot hole in an otherwise shitty movie that people living in denial don't want to address. Oh well maybe the next SINO movie will be a little less SINO.
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That is what was missing in this movie to me Spiderman 2 is the greatest comic book movie of alltime because it truely brought a Spiderman comic to life on film. Even the X-Men movie did not do that other than wolverine. There has been a spot on spidey movie but I don't think we will ever see a truely epic story from the pages of X-Men comics brought to life.
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Solid movie. Some brilliant touches. But this movie never took off for me. The first 10-15 minutes were just awful. Clark back on the farm was painful to watch. So dull and poorly written. Why even go back to mom if you're not going to say but two words to her? Obviously some farm scenes were cut. The film never answers why he was gone for five years. What he spent five years at the grave site? Or was this the result of traveling at light speed? If its the latter why not have Clark shocked that it's been five years. I dunno. 2.5 years to get there and back. What a boring trip.
Routh was good enough in the cape, and my previous hatred for the suit never really became an issue. Enjoyed his scenes as Clark at the Planet. A fan of the bumbling reporter routine. But i miss the Lois and Clark relationship. Here he's just a nerd, another co-worker to her. Where's the interplay? Where's the competitive nature between them? One out scooping the other. Clark should've written "why the world needs superman" as a counterpoint. Lois is too busy for Kent. They have no relationship. The point her was unrequited love. Clark to Lois. Loved the X-ray vision/elevator scene. But to dull their relationship to the point of nothingness got under my skin. "Can I borrow your stapler?" "Our relationship?" Ugh. Such a waste.
Bosworth...well...she's just daggum cute. That's what they wanted. That's what they got. She very well may have an Oscar winning performance in her, but this was a one-note affair. "Kate look off-camera...you want Superman, but he's not marrying material...that's it....drop the lip...and cut.." I mean, really. She had one look the entire film. The "I wanna be mad, but man that night was magic, and magic..and magic...whew!" look. She was awful. Let's be honest. Sure Kidder was a 'handsome" woman, but she was perfect! This Lois is underwritten and played by the an Emo Queen. Could they not have put in a call to Natalie Portman?
Spacey looks like Lex, but another role that was horribly written. His plot line almost felt like it was cut out of another movie. Didn't feel in place with the rest of the film until the end. Even then...he and supes get what? Two minutes together? And a few lines? Horrible. I loved the idea of making a fortress out of the green stuff, but why not just make your own Fortress. Get superman to show...boom! youv'e got him. The whole billions will die, this will be the new Miami plot was insane. Make your trap...and then harvest the technology for your own good. Weapons, clones (Bizarro!) etc, etc.
Again there were moments...but not enough. This film while not a bore didn't excite me. And the number of close-ups annoyed the hell out of me.
Superman Returns is MAYBE a notch better than X-men 3. The best of Smallville eats this for lunch. -
The only things that really bothered me were some serious pacing issues and editing.
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I beleive zod was invented for the movie I want to see a villian from the comics other than Lex zod and crew in 2 were nice but they had the same powers as Superman it would be cool to see another from the rogues gallery is all.
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...which is what I hoped for. It was a bit too dark. It works for batman, but not so well for Supes. One reviewer said the final confrontation of Lex and Superman was great. Bah! Lex and his goons kick the shit out of him...that's it?! The ending slowed down to a bit of a crawl as well. But hey, a good respectable handling of Superman which I appreciate.
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Donner's films own this. Search your heart, you know it's true.
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Jun 28, 2006 11:05:33 PM CDT
Superman LIVES motherfucker! Male monkey motherfuckers.
by jack_noisewater
"They can be a great people the talkbackers. They only lack the light to show them the way."
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He didn't drug Lois. She had sex with him of her own free will. I'm sorry, but did it look to anyone else like Lois and Mr. Lane were hurting financially? Did they need Supe's charity? Lois doesn't know Supe has a job. For all she knows he just goes around saving the world. Tell me, does that pay well? That's like asking a guy who's has taken a vow of poverty to run out and support the kid. American Values? You right wing nutjobs crack me up. Supe selflessly devotes himself to saving humanity. He foregoes his own pleasure for the good of the world. He distances himself from Supe Jr. for Supe Jr's sake. I fail to see how any of this is bad values. You won't fault Singer for being gay, you'll just assume he has a homosexual agenda because he happens to be gay. That makes perfect sense, if you're a legume.
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He was still alien. Jeez people, seriously, the Super genes were still passed on.
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Lex did recognize the kid was Supe's dad. That's why he said, "We have to get out of here now." He didn't know the extent of Supe Jr.'s powers, and he didn't want to risk the chance of the kid putting the smackdown on him.
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Ya know what woulda made it better? Supes knocking Luthor through a wall or two (after that pretty nasty beatdown Lex and his goonies gave to the big guy, you'd think Singer would have at LEAST given Supes the chance to knock the snot outta Luthor at the end of the movie, but...he's abandoned on an island a la Jack Sparrow? WTF? Every, and I mean EVERY, classic hero film has gotta have the hero and the baddie go hand to hand at least once. Batman (1989) did it, even if it was a little boring. Spider-Man 1 & 2 did it, and it was great. X-Men 2 did it wonderfully: did Singer forget, somehow, that Superman is supposed to hit someone once in a while, fer Chrissakes?
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Yea... and my point is that giving superman a kid WAS A FUCKING STUPID MOVE. They din't need to do it. The kid added >>>> NOTHING <<<< to the movie. IT SUCKED SUCKED SUCKED. Superman Four was better in terms of what it stood for. This is metrosexual desperately clingy lonely stalker superman.
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.....but I did say that his wiping her memory after having unprotected sex with her, IS the EQUIVALENT of a normal unsuperpowered guy using Rohybdinalto have sex with a chick ( regardless of whether or not she really actually likes him), and unprotected sex at that; considering the fact that he doesn'thave memory-wipo kiss powers like Superman does. And no Superman does not have a "paying" job......but he does have all that wonderful alien technology that has Lex all hot and bothered. Not too manetion the fact that if he wanted to, he could make 500 to a gazillion times what a manual labourer makes, you know, on account of his Super-strength and all. And I'm sure even manual labour wouldn't be beneath Superman, especially considering the fact that HIS son would be the beneficiary.
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-- this will always be the real Superman Movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd97RhQ3Jcs&search=superman%20trailer -
queerfilmjunkie: Exactly and the smart thing for luthor to do would be to kill that kid. He had the capability to do it with his dagger. I realize they needed to keep it under an R (which they could have done if superman saved lois/kid) but seriously luthor would be smart enough to kill that kid and lois. That's just a no brainer. On recognizing he kid WAS his son, he had to kill him because he would have come for revenge in the future - super powered or not.
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I'm sorry but a superman movie where he fights NO ONE!!! It would have been such a better film if he had someone to fight. a battle w/ land just doesn't work. i can't believe it, i mean singer had the oppertunity to create a superman movie with his friends, and this is the battle they choose for him!!!! i wanted to love it, i really, really did but sadly i could not. i mean, a huge hunk of land!!! They could have been a little more creative w/ how he responded to the kryptonite, make him fight back just a little...
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After seeing this movie I am left with only one option: I'm sitting down here and EATING MY WORDS!! Singer knocked this out park, as far as Im concerned. Is the movie perfect? Well, not really--its climax is a little weak (but still servicable, to my mind). However, despite that single flaw, the movie is pitch perfect in tone, characterization, and dialogue. Superman is NOT a deadbeat dad, nor is he depicted as one in this film; his surprise at the news of his son is CLEARLY evident. Indeed, Superman is shown to be a superman of good moral character, something that I'm very thankful for. Brandon Routh? He is Superman for the ages, perfectly building upon the base of Christopher Reeve and growing beyond, making the role his own. I cant tell you how many times I was smiling in dumbfounded awe at Routh's Superman; he was the perfect choice. Spacy's Luthor was equally perfect, to my mind. Yes, his plan was a bit shallow, but his character is emminantly enjoyable, ruthless, and commanding. I also have to admit that I was hooked from the moment the astounding opening credits rolled (The best opening reel, if you ask me) all the way to the superman/camera fly-by (by the way, bring some tissue--there is at least 1 scene that WILL make you tear up). And dont even get me started on the unbelievable effects and score. All in all, I enjoyed this truly adult-themed movie that dared to make us all feel like children-at-heart. Tonight, I saw a man fly and I don't think I'll ever forget it. This movie gets a solid A. Thank you, Singer!
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Of course he served a purpose. Jeez, seriously, dang.
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But I think everyone does enough good acting that you really don't notice it. It truly wasn't an issue; within 15 minutes, you forgot all about Reeve and Kidder. To those that agreed with me about my feelings and opinions on the notion of Superman, see this movie! I guarantee you that you will not be dissapointed. Singer did indeed get this one right.
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luther would have been caught, nobody made the connection, etc, etc, blah blah blah.
You do realize there is a FLYING ALIEN MAN in this movie right? Suspend disbelief for a bit you fogey ass got old even though you wish you didn't asshats!
I loved it. I could sit here and find flaws, but you can find flaws with absolutely andy movie. Singer brought back Superman, and tastefully. He didn't overdo the kid, which is good. I literally felt like I did as a kid watching the first Superman.
The Luthor plot was a little weak, but I really didn't give a shit about luthor. Singer did for this what they did for batman. they brought him back and reminded you how much you liked him and what he's dealing with. I like to care about the heroes in my hero movies, and now that it's all been set up, the next one can have all the action you want.
They gave spidey what he needed to make him feel like he WANTED to fight for the world again, a son, and another kryptonian. He's no longer alone. I think that this makes him feel feel like his dayjob is rewarding in some other way than saving nameless faces.
Wow, I could go on, but I gotta hit the sack. I loved it. Thought singer handled it well. Any one of the previously mentioned directors wouldn't have made a smidgen as good of a film. Singer respects the man of steel and DC and WB have finally made some good decision about their comicbook films... Now just pay the directors whatever they want... don't fuck it up like they did with Xmen.
peace out. -
But it was a fucking YAWN FEST. It wasn't bad enough that the story wasn't interesting or that the characters didn't have much depth, they had to make the fucking action scenes boring too! FUCKERS!
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Please do not have him in the sequel. There are certainly bigger and better baddies in the Superman universe. Having Lex in four movies completely killed the character and turned him into a joke.
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Jun 28, 2006 11:56:54 PM CDT
So did Superman bone Lois before or after erasing...
by frodosblueballs
her memory? I mean if it was before he wiped her mind. Wouldn't she wonder how she got pregnant with superboy? Overall the movie was better than average...I did forget just how iconic supes really is and i did dig the speech at the end to his son...but the plotholes were a bit much. IMAX 3d was cool, especially the trailers for the CG movies, but at times the shakiness of the scenes just made it too blurry.
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Again, I understand consequences of free speech. It's you who doesn't seem to understand the difference between consequences (i.e., a bad public reaction, refusal to participate in a discussion, a boycott, or a statement that something is "in bad taste") and telling someone to stop saying it. There is a big fucking difference (and a hypocritical one, at that) between stating a contrary viewpoint (Superman sux!!!/Superman rulez!!!) and telling someone to shut up/not say that. While you "have the right" to say shut up (under the precepts of free speech), it is that very right which you are attacking by telling someone that they should shut up. That should be clear to even an idiot at this point. Insisting that someone else NOT exercise their right to free speech while defending your own right to say just that is FUCKING HYPOCRITICAL. You may disagree with what was said, you can be contrary, you can refuse to participate, but telling someone else NOT to exercise their right to free speech (because it offends your obviously delicate sensibilities) while defending your own exercise of free speech is akin to telling someone else not to smoke and blowing smoke in their face while claiming that you have a right to smoke. Yes, yes, your poor delicate sensibilities were offended and Harry and all the rest must deal with the horrible blow that your being offended will deal them. Hopefully, they will pull through and manage to recover. And yes, yes, you have the right (in a "free speech society") to tell them to stop talking, but if you don't see the hypocrisy in telling someone else not to exercise their rights to free speech (because your iddyy-biddy-widdle feewings was huwt) while standing up like a big tall man (oh, wook at widdle, Tai, isn't he cute) and announcing that YOU stand behind your First Amendment rights then YOU, sir, are the very definition of a hypcrite. Offense should never be used as a criteria to restrict free speech. In the land of an-eye-for-eye, everyone is blind. In the land of non-offensive free speech, everyone is mute.
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is that Spiderman wasn't fighting gravity, but real bad ass villains. The train fight still beats the plane scene for me. And why didn't Lex just kill Superman instead of letting him fall to the ocean and hope he drowns and did nobody hear or see the plane flying in?
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That's twice in the same talkback that you've said something I agree with! You're going have to stop or people will start talking. I so fucking hated the idea of this kid and this cast, but I just got back and the movie's pretty fucking good. Actually, it's really good. B+ or A-. Somewhere in there. At the risk of offending some easily offended assholes who are searching for a reason to be offended, Routh quickly makes one forget about the paralyzed/dead dude. I wonder if the same jerkwads who were offended by Herc's updated icon (same as the old just now with a Supes costume on - IN HONOR OF THE FILM!!!) were equally as offended by the DEATH OF SUPERMAN storyline in the comics which featured a dead Superman and, as we all know, the actor who PLAYED Superman on tv (George Reeves) was actually dead and, oh, my gosh, golly, gee willickers, that's offensive! A drawing of a dead Superman offends our memory of the dead actor! Gasp!
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Wasnt that movie, great, Strange? The most disturbing part, I found, was that I was actually starting to like the costume! How weird is that, huh? I was getting a kick out of the richer tones and varying hues that occured with different sets of the sun. I really, really enjoyed this movie. Did you see this at the imax, or just the normal showing?
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If this movie had had a stronger climax (and I wouldn't have minded sitting through another 20 minutes for it), I would have given this film an A+. That said, its still an unbelievably good show that people should give a chance.
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No, I do not enjoy Raimi's take on Spider man AT ALL. I think they suffer in many ways the same creative dilemma and narrative issue Burton and Schumachers Batman films faced - the camp factor.
Thats why I like Superman Returns, Superman: The Movie, and X-men.
The material is at least attempted to be grounded in reality.
When Donner was making Supes the movie, he constantly ran around the set with sticky notes and cards saying REALITY. For ANY comic book material to have integrity and jump out of the pages of a comic book, it has to be grounded in reality. Contrast Acme fucking chemical plant with Wayne Towers in Begins, apples and oranges. Likewise, Im starting to think the film wasn't at fault, it was true to Superman, the problem is, some people just dont LIKE Superman, and thats fine and acceptable. The film delivered everything it was supposed to for a Superman experience. I already sat through three bullshit Matrix films so, I didnt need to see that again. Nor did I need to see a dark and violent Superman, thats what Batmans for. Superman saves people, loves Lois Lane, and flies and lifts things, while fighting evil. Thats the basic criteria for me, for a Superman film and it delivered splendidly.
I cant pretend to understand why someone didnt like the film, nor will I try, I can only tell anyone thats interested why I thoroughly enjoyed it. -
Luther's whole plan to kill Supe was predicated on his new land being made of Krypton. It wasn't just the krypton shiv. So why would he go, armed only with said shiv, to face the kid who just killed his henchman? Also the crstyal continent was starting to form and all hell was breaking loose. Made sense that he would have bailed at that point. If the kid had come in the future, Lex would have been on chilling on Kryptonia and the kid would not have stood a chance. Plus, Lex shove the Krypton in Kiddy Supe's face and it had no noticeable effect. There are a dozen reasons why Lex would not have killed the kid. But let's analyze it to death until we find holes in a plot about a bulletproof alien with x-ray vision who flies around in tights.
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I hate to say it folks, but I only see this franchise getting more personal and emotional with conflict. Especially now that there is a kid. Not that it's a bad thing per say, but I do agree with some of the people who want to see the big S in a fight worthy of his powers. Again- I'm all for deep emotional conflict, but it is possible to write both in to the same film. One good reason why things will get more personal as opposed to just picking random villians is that Superman's villians SUCK. Darksied would maybe be the only one, but I seriously doubt we'll see him on the screen. Zod? Done that. Bizarro? Will never happen, and SHOULD never happen. and then there's... yea, a long list of really crappy villians. It's a catch 22 because Lex is soooooo over done (guess who supes is fighting in the comic as we speak...), and to do him again in a film would almost be a joke. The other problem is there are not many great superman stories to pull from either. I know fanboys will rain down on mr crying foul and quoting issue numbers, but it's the truth folks. Think of Batman or Spider man's iconic story arcs and you will have lists that rival Santa Claus'. but Supes just keep running the cycle with each new batch of creators. It also doesn't help that he is so damn hard to make truly interesting because A. He is essentially invincible, except for Kryptonite, which has been done to death, then done again. B. Writers are forced to find personal, or 'Human' conflicts for him, but after 75+ years of comics it's literally all been done. I know many people detest the kid in the new film, but I actually enjoyed the idea almost solely because it's a completely new direction for a very stale character (comic-wise). Dispite many many plot holes and inconsistencies I did enjoy the film. It was a nice sweeping and iconic look at Supes, which usually tend to be the best Superman stories (although they have also now been done to death). I see the kid being the crux of Superman's future, now it all depends on how Singer rolls with it. www.cinemahell.com
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The kid should have never been in it. Everything else was just OK at best. I was surprised when Roger Ebert only gave it 2 stars but he was right, Singer dropped the ball again.
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Some of the plot holes some people here are claiming to find aren't actually plot holes. You'll just not thinking hard enough (or at all). *** Plot hole 1a: Supes is not a deadbeat dad. He does not even know he has a kid until he's in the hospital near the end. And he has no reason to suspect the kid is his. Like Shermdawg said above, his DNA was still Kryptonian. I don't think he possibly could have known that he was even capable of mating with a human. A deadbeat dad KNOWS he has a child, and does not support him/her. And Lois and Richard are obviously doing well enough for themselves that they don't need Superman's financial help. Not to mention that Lois would have to reveal to Richard that he isn't the true father. ***Plot Hole 1b: Supes is not a date-rapist. A date rapist drugs their victim to prevent the victim from saying no or fighting back. Lois has complete control over her free will in SII and willingly gives her consent. Supes taking away her memory of the event is not even remotely similar ***Plot Hole 2: Luthor not killing the kid/using him as leverage. He definitely knows that the kid is Superman's. But Superman obviously does not know because if he did, then he would have been watching over the kid the entire time, i.e. Luthor never would have been able to kidnap the kid is Supes knew it was his. Therefore Luthor cannot use the kid against Supes. Jason also has a very mild reaction to the Krytonite, if it was caused by the Kryptonite at all. His face could have turned pale because Lois was hugging him too tigh or because he got scared. Therefore Luthor doesn't know if the dagger will work on the kid. And Luthor is too smart to mess with a kid who could be essentially Supes sans Kryptonite vulnerability. ***Plot Hole 3: Clark and Supes returning at the same time. The people of Metropolis have no reason to suspect that Superman even has an alter ego, let alone to think of possible suspects. Under their rationale, he appears to be all over the world all the time, so how would he have time for a normal job? Richard's "how tall do you think Clark is" question is a "do you think he could fit the tights" question and not a "is he Superman question." ***Plot Hole 4: Luthor's Scheme. OK, I can't do too much to this hunk of Swiss Cheese. I can only throw a little bit of spackle at it. First off, people would have to buy that land because it would be the only land left. And who knows, it could have become hospitable. The shores of Mt. St. Helen's sure looked bad right after the blast in 1980, but now flora and fauna are flourishing there. Also, it was not entirely about the land. It was also about using a part of Supes' own history to hurt him. That was just too good to pass up for Lex. ***
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First, love the name, Juggfuckler. Secondly, Tie345, there are LIMITED things that we can't do in a "free speech society" including, as you noted, libel, slander, and speech designed to incite/hate speech. Sure, sure, it's okay to point out something is "in poor taste" (because it offends you - and it really is YOUR fault that YOU saw C. Reeve - I mean, I didn't. I saw Herc's icon in a Supes costume), but insisting that someone NOT say something that offends YOU is the slippery slope to the land of no-free-speech. Again, you have the right to say it, but when we all exercise "our right to not be offended" by someone else's speech, this country will be a silent motherfucking place. On the topic of explanations owed, common fucking sense and some very simple fucking research ought to reveal to even the easily offended that the icon is HERC'S FUCKING ICON. If you'd been here longer than five minutes or had an ounce of intelligent curiousity, you would know that. Did you think of Christoper Reeve when you saw the GREEN-SKINNED DROOLING, DOUBLE-AMPUTEE ALIEN IN A WHEELCHAIR before? Because, if you did, I'd hate to see your response to the ol' Rorschach ink blots. Where was all the outrage then? Hmmm? Now Supes premieres, ol' Herc throws on a Supes costume to stand in line, and, suddenly, it's the height of moral outrage around here. Yessiree, we won't stand for the "bravest Hollywood actor" (fucking, please) to be degraded. Christopher Reeve was the victim of a tragedy that left him in a pretty shitty situation, but he made the best of it and tried to work to help others. Great! Fantastic! Good job, Christopher Reeve. But the "bravest Hollywood actor"? (BTW, how's that for a backhanded complement - "you're the shiniest turd in the box, little man"!) Chris Reeve got dealt a bad hand and made the best of it. Lemme tell you the names of some actual Hollywood heroes - Robert Montgomery, Jimmy Stewart, James Arness, Jason Robards, and Audie Murphy. All these men either enlisted or were already serving in the military when the U.S. entered WWII. All of them saw actual combat and several of them received medals for their service. Not for dealing with the hand that was dealt them by continuing to live, but by actually fighting to defend their country and their ideals. This is no slam at Chris Reeve, but, to look at a man who got a pretty crappy blow and dealt with it and saying that he's "brave" or a "hero" for continuing to live is a disservice to actual heroes who risked their lives so that you and I could dishonor their titles. Wow, that was off the track! Anyway, Chris Reeve - great guy, shitty hand. Icon on the top - NOT CHRIS REEVE - HERC!!!
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Just saw it in a packed theater (6:15 showing) and the audience cheered. Everything that I hated (in the pre-release frenzy of second guessing) was very quickly forgotten. I just hope that we can get straight to some Super ass kicking in the next one. Two-thirds into this flick, while watching Routh be Superman, I thought - fuck, wouldn't this guy and Christian Bale play GREAT off each other in WORLD'S FINEST! Each actor nailed it. Oh, as a former Houstonian, I loved my city's mention along with Metropolis and Gotham! Fuck, good movie, good movie.
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f'real.
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In 1977 Richard Donner said I'd believe a man can fly. He was right but it didn't happen until 2006. I was trying to think of one word to sum up what I thought about Superman Returns. Breathtaking? Beautiful? Moving? All apropos but not quite right. The word is reverent. If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, Superman Returns is a master class in ass-kissing. It's evident from every level of the movie, every one, that this movie was made by people who love Superman. And that, in turn, made me love this movie. From Singer honoring Richard Donner's vision, to Brandon Routh channeling Christopher Reeve's performance, to Ottman's score paying tribute to John Williams, to the various effects houses getting every detail right. Right down to the title designs at the beginning, this was an homage to Superman.
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So my plea to Warner Bros: Stay out of Bryan Singer's way. Just let him hit two more out of the park. Don't screw him over the way Fox did with X-men. Because if there's one flaw in Superman Returns it's the scope of the story, it feels small. But that's because it's act one, an introduction. It's the tip of the iceberg, and there's obviously more story under the surface left to tell. And to Singer and crew: Congratulations, you nailed it! -
...but not as good as i kinda hoped it would be. It was good, just not great. I was disappointed but enjoyed it. I'm very conflicted, lol, i guess i should see it again.
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Gay liberal director craps all over an american icon, family values, and the viewer's intelligence.
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You were being hateful, and I simply called you on it. I don't see why tongue in cheek should mean anything different to me, unless hetero kissing has changed since the last time I kissed a girl. But I get the oh so subtle and clever implication that, as a gay man, I must be a reckless, deviant, perverted spreader of STDs, as illogical as it was. Touche. I'm sorry. I used a French word. Was that too radical and leftist for you? Am I now promoting the French agenda? Kind of sounds like a sequel to the French Connection. I'll admit that i'm afraid of death and destruction. I'm anti-war, but so is every rational person i've ever met. That doesn't mean I don't think war is ever justified, just means that I recognize it as an unfortunate reality of the modern world, something destructive, that should always be an absolute last result for civilized people. Not something to be used preemptively. Yes, I fear war. I fucking hate war. Who doesn't?
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i MIGHT see it on sunday, when i have off. fuck. oh and strangeco is right.. and hell is for heroes is a good movie. audie murphy is cool.
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but Supes saying Jor-El's lines made up for it. maybe the kid wont be able to cope with the powers and Superman falls into an emotional crisis when his son dies. which will truly teach him that he will never be human!
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hatemongers like Chriss?
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You've got to be right about the floating hunk of kryptonite, Richard White's future, and (possibly) the Lex thing. I will say this about Singer - he missed one thing. When the nurse comes into the room at the end and Supes is gone and we head out the window - all the people are gone. Vanished. Might have been nice to have to nurse look down into the street and see all the gathered people cheering and looking into the sky where Supes flew off to. Just sayin'.
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You can't be serious with that as an explanation for why people would not even suspect, SUSPECT that something's afoot when both Clark and Superman not only re-appear at the same time but also intially disappeared at the SAME TIME. Can you? I mean if you are, (serious about that explanation, that is) then I can only imagine how much effort it takes to lower one's IQ that low to have to believe such a weak line of reasoning; hook, line and sinker. Even a freaking 5 year old would suspect something funny was up. I mean, it's called putting 2 and 2 together. I can't even believe that out of all the plotholes exisitng in the movie you even attempted to explain this one. Not to say that the explanations you gave for the other plotholes hold any water ( nobody said that Superman is a date-rapists; whwn will you people learn to read. I was making a real-world comparison. There's obviously no physical, chemical or other means known to man, to erase someone's ememory. Rohybdinal is a drug that impairs a person's ability to make rationale choices as well as their ability to resist decisions that ouwld otherwise repulse them. For a real-world drug it makes a close enough comparison to a memeory-erasor. I mean come, on people, READ. Geeeeez. And your explantion to plothole 2 basically loops around itself with an open-ended and unresolved "what if", as in "If Superman knew the kid was his, then Lex wouldn't dare kill or kidnap him because Superman would know and would be watching. Therefore Lex does not kidnap or kill him." !???????! Yeah, makes just as much sense to me too. and the less said about your excuse for an explanation for plothole 4, the better). Maybe you're the one that needs to "think hard enough", but then again where plotholes are involved sometimes thinking just isn't enough to cover the logical stupidities as are rampant with this movie.
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How did Superman or "American Values" get crapped on? Supe sacrificed all of his personal happiness for the good of mankind. Granted, he didn't do it just for America. He had more global concerns. Are you so offended by the fact that Supe would value a life in India as much as one in America? Is that crapping on an icon. When the crystal continent starts to form and Lois is one way, Metropolis the other, what does Supe do? Selfishly save the woman he loves? No. He goes and saves the thousands of residents of Metropolis. When he learns he has a son, does Superman demand custody, try to break up Lois' happy home? No. He selflessly leaves the kid in the only home he's ever known and tries to impart the wisdom of his father upon his son. How are these not values we should be teaching our kids? I'm sorry Supe doesn't live in the black and white Leave it to Beaver world you'd like him to. But things just aren't that simple. They never were.
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First, Luthor would not have killed the kid himself (knowing the risk that the kid could seriousl defend himself) he would have told his henchmen to do it like any smart leader (the generals don't actually fight the wars you know). He had to kill the kid because he would have become a threat. Lois and the kid were a threat and had to be killed and not left to die. My IQ is only in the mid 100's, and I'm smart enough to realize this.
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Boy do I feel like an idiot. An excellent point about a doomsday possibility, yackbacker--very astute. I tell you, I'm the worst sort of person in a movie. Once a story has me hooked, I pretty much leave my brain in "breath only" mode, you know? Its really easy for me to miss bloopers in films once I'm interested.
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well...I gotta say I like the hollywood version of superman soooooo much better than the comic version.
While Spiderman really needs to stick to the comic tight in film Superman has had so many different flavors over the decades that the film version needs to NOT stick to the comic beyond the basic key concepts. I actually care about this Superman. And the kid is handeled very well. It could have been really bad and it turned out to be really perfect.
Thanks to all who worked on it. -
The writers, director, and producers did. The faults are not in the character of superman's actions, they are in what they did with the whole story and mythology of superman. Seriously are you really this stupid that I have to point it out to you?
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Look, I get it if you like some parts of this. Superman on the big screen again! And there were moments: Flying above the earth, the iconic shots, the sound of the cape flapping in the wind - nice touches. But I have to say overall, this was a mess.
Bosworth really didn't work, and since that was crucial to the heart of the picture, the picture didn't work. I guess Marsden was fine, but when you're kickstarting a dead franchise, to spend this much time with Lois Lane's boyfriend and kid is a mistake. In the context of the trailer I was jazzed that they were using her "family" as an obstacle, but in the film it almost overshadowed Routh who was also fine, but got lost behind the kid, Marsden, and the effects. The story seemed uneven, and however you look at it, had quite a few holes. By being a little bit of a remake, a little bit of a sequel, a little bit of a "reimagining" and not being entirely successful at any of those, the holes were magnified to the point of distraction. But if the holes didn't bother you and you went with the story and you loved Bosworth and really got into it, I envy you because I wanted to enjoy this movie. Unfortunately, I was taken out of it quite a few times. I'm puzzled by the over the top reviews. For folks that don't have an emotional attachment to the Donner original (who are these imbeciles? where are they?) I guess I could see why you'd embrace this, but for folks that remember the Original, I can understand liking this movie, but loving it? It just wasn't that great. Did the effects really look that fantastic to you? I mean a couple shots in particular Superman was 100 percent animated. That's fine for Spidey, but when you do it to Supe he looks like he's a reject from the POLAR EXPRESS. We've come a long way in what can be done with effects and after Lord of the Rings, King Kong, the Matrix, Spidey (we can go on and on) Hollywood has proved what you can do with effects: Anything. It's no surprise any more. Compared to any of your typical Summer movies, CGI effects seem easy. It's telling a story well that seems to be the toughest trick. The effects are just big. Not special. Returns took a lot more time and money to come together than a great deal of movies, and frankly, it didn't look it. The sets in the original film seemed to have far more imagination. I guess what I'm getting at is that this was disappointing because in light of what can be done, it just seemed average. Obviously, the original Donner film is one of my favorite movies of all time and I knew that I would never be as fond of this movie as that one. I didn't expect that. I just wanted a solid movie. I knew that Bosworth would never blow me away as Lois, but I was hoping for, hell, something other than a scowl and some saline tears.
What was so magical about the original movie was that Donner captured lightning in a bottle with Reeve and Kidder - not unlike Lucas capturing lightning in a bottle with Harrison Ford in Star Wars -- That's a damn hard thing to repeat. That alchemy is what makes good movies great. And because ultimately this thing was a remake (same titles / same music / same lines of dialogue / same broad beat structure) I didn't expect them to capture lightning in a bottle again. It's almost impossible. (All these are lessons learned from Phantom Menace) I just wanted good. But when the thing was over I just sat, kind of in shock, thinking to myself "Really, that's the best they could do?"
I guess what's ultimately puzzling is that I respect Singer as a filmmaker and think his heart was in the right place. I think this thing actually could have been "good" with a little tweak here and there...and maybe a different Lois Lane. The respect for the original film was a good instinct, but it also reminded me how wonderful a movie Donner made and how mediocre the new one is. It doesn't quite work as a "sequel / defacto III", as a remake, and certainly not as a stand alone movie to start the franchise over again. Or at least start a franchise I'm interested in. While I'll be first in line when Batman Continues and Spidey goes Dark, if this was the very best they could do with Superman after twenty years of development, how many directors and a quarter of a billion dollars, if he manages to return in a sequel, I think I'll just stay at home and watch Donner's masterpiece again. -
But the movie ITSELF was awesome.
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I guess I really am that stupid. Because what I saw was the mythology of Superman being expanded, not changed. He is shown as a Christ-like savior, as Atlas with the world on his shoulders. He has always been mankind's savior. That's why he was sent to Earth, because his daddy believed mankind was worthy of being saved. Sound familiar? Is the Christ story not traditional enough for you? Christ. Literally. If you didn't know the sexual orientation of the director, you would probably have a completely different opinion. How sad for you that you have to care so much about what a guy does with his dick. If you do in fact have an IQ in the 150's, you are misusing it horribly.
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When you said the director crapped on an American icon, what did you mean? If not the character of Superman?
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I almost busted a nut watching the opening credits, a feeling I can only relate to watching the opening credits of Star Wars episode 1 (Although it sucked after the credits) I thought the movie was great. Brandon Routh must have done some voodoo shit and conjured up Crhis reeves ghost and asked him politely to possess him cuz Mr Routh was on par. Beyond par even. The movie delivered on all levels. I must say, I didn't like the whole hospital thing. seeing Superman on a gurney didn't really fit the feel of the flick. HOWEVER, if one must see Supes carted around a hospital, they should have left him there and kept the audience guessing until the sequel "Superman Lives" comes out. Yeah? That was originally supposed to be the sequel anyway right? Oh and one more thing. IMAX kicks ass. If you have the opp to see it in IMAX, do it
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Seriously, I'm not a Supes hater and I'm not a Singer hater. But this movie was lifeless from the word go, a monotonous retread of the Donner films. Almost all the jokes fell flat, many lines and plot elements were unintentionally funny and ........where the hell was Superman? It seemed like he was barely in the movie. This wasn't SUPERMAN RETURNS---it was LEX LUTHOR DOES STUPID SHIT AND IS THWARTED BY SUPERMAN. The disappointment in my screening was palpable. Saw it with a group of friends, all of whom were psyched to see it and all of whom immediately began ripping the idiotic plot apart as soon as we walked out. I don't think I heard a single positive comment from others in the theater. Word of mouth will kill this. I revise my final BO prediction down to $200 million. Goddamnit, Bryan Singer...you could've done a helluva lot better than this!
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Oh. Sorry. Is the movie over yet? Harry - you gotta be kidding?!? If you think this is a good movie, then this site has totally jumped the shark. Moriarity and Ebert are 1000% right. There is NO story here. It is a collection of poorly written, badly acted, campy scenes with B actors. It starts off with sheer camp with Lex "pleasuring" this old hag and dropping his wig on her great-great grandaughter and it descends from there. Routh looks like a BAD soap opera actor who seems more concerned with hitting his mark than with understanding the terrible dialogue coming out of his mouth. They forgot one thing when they cast this role - it is supposed to be superMAN. You have to cast a MAN not a pretty BOY. Lex is just as bad. Spacey goes off on these diatribes to no one in particular and looks bored in every scene. Don't get me started on Kate Bosworth. Why would they possibly cast her in this? Maybe a good actress like Jennifer Connolly could have turned this badly written role into something you cared about. But Bosworth (again) feels like a girl trying to play a woman's role. Oh, and a little note - they don't give Pulitzer Prizes for editorials, they give them for reporting (I guess $300m doesn't get you a fact checker). I would have thought a writer would know this. There is not one believable, genuinely earned moment in this entire film. It is BEAUTIFULLY shot and designed, but everything else is crap. In trying to look like Donner, Singer forgot to craft a story and cast the movie like Donner. To put it in perspective, Hellboy was a MUCH better film than this. I at least believed that those characters were of that world and had soul. This isn't even in the top 5 of superhero movies in the last 10 years. ALL 3 xmens, both Spidermans, Batman Begins, and Hellboy are all better by miles. Harry - they say that the first step to curing a problem is by admitting you have a problem. Why can't you just admit that you like being courted by these filmmakers and desperately need their approval? Then, you can write your puff pieces and let the real reviewers write reviews. I went with such optimism because of your glowing endorsement of the film (even though the materials looked suspect). Me and my ENTIRE audience left underwhelmed and bored. No clapping at the end. A complete bore and waste of $$$. I cannot wait until POTC2.
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So if she's 23 now, then, what, she was the Daily Planet's teenage intern who got knocked up and won a Pulitzer all before being old enough to drink? Pretty impressive.
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I think it's truly pathetic that you even have an opinion about my sexuality. Newsflash: We aren't all after you, trying to convert you with our predatory eyes, our comehither glances. You just aren't that important. But you know the truth of the universe and I don't. It's amazing you can believe that and not see the arrogance of it. Who in the hell are Docapuwhatever and Ernie Anderson?
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"I guess I really am that stupid." Yes, you are. The actions that Superman the character makes in the movie are not all that I am referring to. Yes, what a shock. I point out that a gay liberal took an icon of omnipotence and pussified him, which of course makes me a hate monger. I promise you, a more traditionally masculine director would not have gone the route of making Superman Returns a "chick flick", which is EXACTLY what singer has called it in an interview. But the issue I have is what the writers, director, and producers did with MANY elements of the mythos. If they want to expand it, fine. But they did not expand it faithfully to the spirit of Superman. Lois Lane, for instance. She is making another man believe that her child is his. What sort of crap is that? I cannot have any sort of respect for that character, that is an abominable thing to do and the development team just wants us viewers to accept that. Holy christ, Lois Lane is a fucking god awfull cunt to do that to another human being - and Superman who is suppose to stand for TRUTH and JUSTICE accepts this also and continue to have this love for her? What the fuck? You want some sort of expanded realism by throwing an out of wed-lock kid into the picture but you have Superman overlook this HUGE character flaw in the woman he supposidly loves.
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Just cuz Kate Bosworth is 23 years old doesn't mean that Lois Lane is. Thats why they call it 'acting'. You are supposed to 'act' like someone you are not
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In Superman2 (where Supes and Lois actually did the damn thing ) Lois lost her memories of the act didn't she? So she really wouldn't think twice about Cyclops being the father. To her credit, she didn't realize she slept with anyone else. If anything, I would think after seeing her kid's 'Superpowers' she must have realized, "Damn! Supes must have slipped me a ruphie!"
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this movie sucked. lois looks like cyclop's kid sister. reminds me of katie holmes in thank you for smoking. neither were convincing as hard nosed journalists. the kid idea was lame. the opening credits were BORING AS HELL. i don't mind the reuse of the music in the film but i don't want to sit through five hypnotizingly dull minutes of retread right off the bat. also, kevin spacey sucks as luthor. his plan is so ridiculous i thought it was a joke at first. and his sidekick posey and henchmen.....pointless. i knew it was gonna be bad after the opening scene. and even though i think most spacey movies outside of american beauty/usual suspects are horrible, the dialog he's given in this movie would have made anyone in the role look bad. superman's boots? just another misstep in a movie filled to the brim with poor decisions. once again, this movie was boring and sucked. and for all who think routh is the second coming of you know who. i just don't see where you get that. his voice kinda sounds like reeve's every now and then but besides that he doesn't have the maturity to play someone who's been through all that superman has. i actually think that someone like mardsen would have been a much better choice. he stands out in the film as one of the only examples of good casting. routh just sulks around all made up and pretty and constantly looks like he's about to pose for a new myspace picture. really...supermans greatest feat in this movie is that his hair is always just so tastefully mussed...even when he gets the crap kicked out of him it looks like he's posing. and the scott stapp he does in space before crashing down. please! we get the christ imagery already! so in conclusion singer, you ruined my summer. you are indirectly responsible for the massive sucking that was X3 and directly responsible for the massive sucking that was Superman Returns.
i do no trus you any more mang! -
excellent words, you all are soooo on point its not even funny... all these apologists, plants, gays, etc. the clueless they dont know the history, there not even worth arguing with. this movie is for them, not us. years from now this film will hold no relevance...some razzies, certainly.
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I am guessing that Singer is taking the 'Highlander' route and making like Supes 3 and 4 never existed?
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Having now seen Superman Returns twice, I must say that I am more than pleased with the results. This was a very engrossing picture that has not only paid due respect to the Donner originals, it has ushered in a new age for the big blue boy.
Brandon Routh is an excellent leading man, and his interpretation of Supes/Clark is just that, an interpretation. Every comic writer who has ever tackled Supes has put his or her own personal slant on the character, yet his core persona remains intact. While his inspiration may have been the Chris Reeves performance, Routh plays Superman/Clark in a much more subdued fashion. Clark is not so much the bumbling oof as just a real nice guy you tend not to notice.
I must admit that I have no strong feelings about Kate Bosworths portrail of Lois Lane one way or the other. At times we do get a sense of the tough as nails reporter, however Bosworth has the misfortune that here character has to spend a great deal of the film hiding her true emotions from the other characters, which tends to hide them from the audience as well.
I thoroughly enjoyed Kevin Spacey as Lex Luthor. This character has always had the broadest interpretations throughout the comics history, ranging from maniacal world dominating scientist to pho-philanthoropic industrialist. While obviously playing off of what the great Gene Hackman did with the role, Spacey plays Lex with a much more uneven mental state. He is never completely comical, nor is he totally serious. There is always a hint of perversion in every line he utters.
I do agree with some of the critics who have sited uncanny resemblences to the plot of the first film (people will always need land), however I believe that Singer and company were simply more interested in the character drama of Superman's absence. However, since this is a summer action picture, they simply couldn't do a small character story. I therefore accept this plot as a device for the story.
I could continue for pages, but this is getting rather lengthy. Overall, a solid film which does the Superman mythos proud. -
So, basically, Lois started sleeping with Marsden within weeks of Supes erasing her memory? Or, going by your other argument, that she totally lost her memory of having sex with ANYONE, then she would be claiming that her boy is Jesus because of this immaculate conception. I know that happens a lot to women around the world - they wake up one day pregnant, having not slept with anyone and they think it's normal. Wow!!! In between my naps during the film, I totally missed that! Thanks for clearing it up. People who like this film and apologize for all it's flaws are morons. It's like trying to have an argument about politics with a fundamentalist. They just cannot see the truth even if the facts are right in front of them.
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My first posting, so you should know that I'm a bigger Superman fan than you. Yes I am. I've got more comics than you, I've seen the films more times than you (not sure if I should boast about that) and I have a Superman "S" shield tatooed on my leg. Got that in Japan - yes sir, nothing says "I lived in Osaka for three years" better than a Superman tattoo...that was one amazing bender. Wonder what happened to that cat...I concede that many of you will know more about the Star Wars, James Bond and Indy Jones films, plus millions of other movies, so don't let my aggressive intro put you off - we can be friends (although not SuperFriends...unless we get to kill the Wonder Twins).
Anyway, I was waiting for this film more than most and I've just seen the first Perth screening (9:45). Hmmmm, don't love it like the first one, but it IS good. There were alot of things that worked but a few that didn't. Some of these were simply cosmetic, like making Superman's costume darker and then filming alot of scenes at night so you couldn't see too well - hiding the wires, maybe? Others were more problematic, as others have pointed out (busy script!). Still there were loads of good things in the film too - the way Superman announces his return at the baseball stadium - very appropriate. They also get bonus points for resisting the urge to have someone yell out "What a catch!" when he catches the plane. All the scenes that hark back to the original (Brando's voiceovers, the THEME, the reused dialogue) - gave the film a sense of familiarity and a reason to get choked up. Good one. Casting - mostly good, but Spacey's Luthor wasn't very funny and lacked any menace, even when beating up Superman. He probably should have strangled the old lady at the start. At least then I'd dislike him. Brandon Routh was excellent and I think he'll get better. Don't like Kate Bosworth though - she's too young to be a mother, her character isn't particularly likable and she's too skinny - eat something, girl!
Still, a good start, with room for improvement in the next one, which I hope does not feature teflon S-shields, people on rollerskates, computer geniuses, time-travel or anything from Superman 4 (which I have wisely banished from my memory banks).
Oh yes, I admit that I fell for all that guff about Zod, the planet Krypton and some other scenes being in the film. They got me! -
Purely as a film, this was nice to look at, shot well and the performances were mostly not bad at all (with the exception of Superman). It also had a few truly great moments which were the action sequences. But Routh was/is all wrong
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Good call. I liked that Perry White didn't mention "The American Way" this time around. It seems out of place, somehow, these days. Too corny?
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The entire film is about what an alien Superman is and how his legacy is watching his kid from a distance like his father did with him? HUH? Oh well, sucks to be Superman!
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You are truly an ignoramus. Sorry, there's just no other way to put it, bud. A more "traditionally masculine" director would have made a different flick? You are kidding, right? There have been mincing queens that have made action flicks and masculine tough guys who have helmed chick flicks. Clint Eastwood has directed chick flicks for Christ's sake. There is simply no correlation between a director's sexuality and the type of filmmaker he is. None. As far as Lois's cuntiness, wasn't her memory erased? Does she even remember boning clark/supe? Does she know who Supe Jr.'s daddy is before the kid tosses the piano? Or perhaps Mr. Lane knows the kid isn't his, he just doesn't know who the father is. And maybe that doesn't matter to him. Maybe he loves Lois and the kid and he could give two shits about the sperm donor who's not around. Any of these would explain Lois's actions without her being a cunt. I'm sorry Ms. Lane sullied your pure mind by having sex out of wed-lock (gasp!), but that was in Supe II, not this film. In this film, Lois was completely faithful to her husband. She didn't even kiss Supe. Is Lois a cunt for creating a life with a man she loves and her son? Just because another man fathered the child she's a cunt? You want a perfect, unflawed Superman who is perfectly invincible. That's boring. There has to be conflict. He has to have flaws. The important thing is that he overcomes them. The Superman comics have changed, too, quite a bit since the 1940's. So the fuck what? You have allowed your hatred of gays and anyone who does not live by the tenets you preach to cloud your views on a fucking comic book move. How sad are you?
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I WISH I was fucking Kate Bosworth right now.
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a few posts above this one you'll see my inaugural post. maybe it was because i expected at the very least a decent movie that i was worked up enough to go through the hassle of getting a password so i could post...oh sorry...what does inaugural mean? why talkbackers i'm surprised. it means...FIRST!
now who else wants to see a magic show? -
Come on - a modern woman gets pregant and she has no memory of sleeping with anyone? The VERY first thing she would do is get a paternity test.
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Where does anyone get the idea she thinks this is Richard's kid? She was pregnant with this kid before she met Richard. Do the math.
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Wow, you lot sure are nitpickers..if you want to know how Lois could be pregnant and not know who the father is, well, I can answer you....no, wait, maybe that's the plot of the next film.
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I loved it. From the opening credits to the closing. Singer did it justice.
The 3D was alittle disappointing but its definitely better than seeing it in a normal theatre. :D
The 'bullet-time' sequence was awesome. Probably my favorite scene. The shuttle resuce was great, and staged beautifully. Singer captures it all elegantly and really shows he can stand up with the rest and the best.
Routh did a great jop as Superman. I'm sorry, I would be the first to admit if he did a shitty job because in the beginning I had NO faith in him and i was skeptical to the TENTH! But.. he pulled through. I'm not saying he was spot on perfect, but he was better than he had any right to be. Both as Superman, and more noteably, Clark.
Spacey delivered. Period. I hear alot about how he could of been better or that he 'didn't have fun with it'.. I guess I saw a totally different picture, because he looked like he was having a blast. The scene right before Superman dives into the ocean to lift the kryptonite island, when Kitty asks "Are billions really going to die?"..and Lex sparks a cigar. Awesome. My favorite scene with Lex, simply because of the way Spacey looks, the look in his eye, and the way SInger shot it. Beautiful.
Kate Bosworth. She's a fine actress, in more ways than one, and she did a good job acting, and did a good job with Lois.. BUT.. the biggest gripe i had was her look. She looked young, and i hated that. The whole time I was picturing someone like Selma Blair or Carla Gugino knocking it out of the park..
Overall, i can't wait to see where it goes from here. I dont want a story next time involving the kid. I don't. I want a straight laced superman story, with giant robots and aliens from distant planets that arent human-esque in the slightest. I want to see superman duke it out in the air with an enemy that can match his strength. i want a hard R superman, with dismemberment and an angry superman with scars and a torn suit....
But i guess that wishful thinking. im sure wherever they go it'll atleast live up to this.. i hope singer stays aboard for as long as this new franchise goes. -
As said by someone smarter than I (although according to you that wouldn't be all that hard) "...alter ego is a comic-book standard. But in the world potrayed in comics...it's not a household concept. For all they know, he goes back to a house in the sky and just chills out until he's needed." And to offer a slightly different take, here's another person's take: "well, actually, its richard's minimal exposure to clark kent that allows him to speculate about clark being superman. because if you just look at clark, and then look at superman you can maybe see something going on there. but if you KNOW clark kent, like lois and jimmy know him, then you'd never think that this bumbling, stuttering, clutz could ever be Superman, the man of steel!" As for Plot Hole 2, I'll admit that I'm not sure I even understand what I wrote anymore. And Chriss put a nice dent in it anyway. The "date rapist" term I just carried over from your analogy for sake of continuity because I was specifically referring to your posts with that. And did you not read to intro to Plot Hole 4? I admitted that my rationale was but a quarter's worth of Bondo on Morpheus' white CTS. I was just trying to make that one the teensiest bit plausible. And there's only a 50-50 chance that I succeeded on that one.
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If Lois could do the math, assuming Richard boner in a sufficient amount of time for their to be any chance the kid was his, couldn't Richard do this math, too? Isn't it stupid to assume he believes he's the biological father. Maybe Lois just said to Richard, "I have this unexplained memory loss and I'm pregnant. Don't know who daddy is but he's not around." Or maybe she told him she was pregnant and he didn't give a fuck who the father was.
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makes King Kong look like Shakespeare.
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...does anyone else get the impression that Cyclops throw-away fate in X3 has something to do with the producers getting pissed off at him for doing SR? It sure looked vindictive and impulsive to me, kind of like firing Singer for daring to work on another superhero film.
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Most comic book adaptations appeal to strickly the 14 to 30 year old male demographic. The film business is just that a business. If they can figure out a way to make a comic based movie and turn it from a smaller demographic to a larger one which includes females of the same age it means one thing- more profit. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that filmmakers should 'sell out' to gain a profit. All I am saying is a lot of people that watch this movie want to see, "Grrr ! Super Man smash! Grrr! Smash more!" And this film does mush more than that. So, yeah they might bring a few real to life issues into the mix ie Lois Lane's kid, the bastard child of Superman. And however the continuity was screwed up from the second film, the real issue is this. Lois Lane was in love with Superman, a guy who has WAY more obligations than just her. So he knocks her up. She's a smart girl and realizes that she's not gonna have the whole 'white picket fence' thing going with Supes. So he takes off while she's knocked up and she meets someone new. Someone she CAN have the 'white picket fence' thing with. Maybe it was a week afetr Supes left, maybe 2 months. Maybe she didn't know she was knocked up. Maybe 'SuperFetus' kicked her, made her bleed and she thought she was on the fucking rag. Who knows, who cares. Its a movie. Sit back, relax and give the man your money
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he's the actual biological father? I never got that impression - not once. I did get the impression that Richard loves Lois and her son and would do anything for them.
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makes THX 1138 look like Logan's Run.
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An episode of the Muppet Babies
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baby out of wedlock and is living with Richard, with her son, while they are unmarried. Maybe they want to move beyond Lois and have him date hot superhero broads in the sequels? That way they can still dangle her over his head when necessary, so we can get a weepy reviewer to say the film "has heart". As for Richard, Lois is better off with him, so I say let them get married and call it a day. Maybe Routh will grow into the role, but he comes off as Superboy. What a wierd little film. Luthor and Superman were the two most immature characters.
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blasphemy, but I can't stand Brando's Jor-El. He gives Superman knowledge of 20+ galaxies (never demonstrated once, mind you, so why mention it, but, I disgress), and doesn't tell him what happens when you have sex with a girl? Or maybe Clark never got around to asking his holographic father that question. Clark's fixation on the holograph of his dead father bugged me in the Donner films and it bugs me even more now with the wham-wham-wham-over-your-head-with-the-baseball-bat Christ analogy.
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Back in 1978 I saw Superman the Movie 13 times in its initial run - I was that blown away - I like II but felt Lester was all wrong to carry on for Donner... III was horrible with Pryor and Vaughn, great with Reeve - but even the great Chris Reeve couldn't save IV - so I waited for a new Superman - and waited - and waited... And I have to say it was worth it - was it perfect? No - but neither was the original - as a Silver Age fan (old to most of you whippersnappers), I have NEVER liked the Krypton of ice and crystals - I wanted the cool cities, the Scarlet Jungle, The Jewel Mountains, Kandor in a bottle, the whole 60's deal (except maybe Beppo)... And I didn't care for Otis or Luthor in a wig... But Reeve was great, the effects were great, the stuff in Smallville and most of the Metropolis stuff... What Singer has done is propel this Superman into the 2000's - yeah, some of it's rehash, and I still am not used to the burgundy... But other notes were dead-on - Supes is truly like a god in this - not God, but one of the gods with their immense power but all-too-human frailty - Superman is apart, and this is elegantly stated - both in the pain Routh exhibits and in his adoptive mother being unable to see him at the hospital... To those who think Routh was wooden or that Marsden should have been Supes, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but to me Routh is now Superman - and I don't think he channeled Reeve or copied him - Chris was his own Superman - not a character or Kermit the Frog (Sherm) but a likeable, awkward Clark and a confident, likeable Man of Steel... Routh's Superman is darker - he's trying to find his place, find his way - but he's not perfect - he does use his x-ray vision to spy on Lois - but who of us wouldn't with a women we loved and had been intimate with? Yet he doesn't act like some jealous god and throw Richard off the planet, or kidnap Lois, etc etc etc - and yes, Parker Posey and the dogs are annoying - but Spacey rocked as Lex - I kept wincing when he and his henchmen were kicking the shit out of Superman - yes, his plot in this is pretty much an update of the last - but now we have so many places we can go - Brainiac, or Bizarro - Metallo or Doomsday... So many of you want to hate this film because you don't like Singer's supposed gayness (when has being gay interfered with art? Better talk to Da Vinci or Capote or any one of the many gay men and women who have made significant contributions to society) or because he left X-Men for Supes (who wouldn't) or because Routh is young (good - he can be in a bunch more movies) or because it isn't Smallville TV on the big screen - that was never going to happen so get over it - I don't get my Silver Age and you don't get Welling or Rosenbaum - boo hoo - I love Smallville but I love this re-introduction of the greatest hero ever - all you haters - go hide in your dark corners - spend out your complaints of logic and discontinuity - people (including me) have been doing that since Action # 1 - but Superman survives - he shows us a better way, and wouldn't it be good to have a Superman? As for me, I have been grinning all day, and I plan to go back soon - Superman HAS Returned - and I thank Singer, Routh and all the rest.
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Richard may or may not think he is the biological father - I never got that impression either way. But let's say he doesn't and he just loves Lois and accepts her as a single mom with a kid - it happens. It's one thing for your girl to say she's moved on and the dad's not around, and now you're the kid's dad. It's another when you're Lois Lane and it turns out the deadbeat dad is Superman. And he's still sniffing around. Literally, flying into your windows and touching your kid when you're not looking.
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I reckon Lois didn't know Jason was Superman's son. Know why? It seems to me, upon reflection, that Jason's powers didn't kick in until that very moment when he hurled the piano on Boris. The extreme stress of the situation pulled the powers to the surface (the comics have dealt with this - the toddler Clark is spared from death at the hooves of a bull via sudden invulnerability, and goes back to being "human" and vulnerable until he's next in extreme danger). Also, Jason seemed to be consciously removed from the situation, like he didn't know what he'd done. That explains why he didn't do anything else Super, like ripping open the door. I beleive that until Jason was exposed to the Kryptonite, his powers were latent - the green stuff triggered them.
Remember, Jason is half human, so he'll only have half of Superman's powers, but have twice as much resistance to the Krptonite. -
This would also explain how Lois didn't know that Jason wasn't human - he'd only displayed human characteristics, such as asthma and a D in PE.
So there - Singer tricked you all! -
And Superman couldn't lift that continent the way he did. The weight of all that mass on his hands would cause the thing to crumble right around him. He would essentially go right through it and make a hole in it. This is probably true as well with the airplane, but I'll let that one go.
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The old surface area to volume ratio problem, eh? Never mind, at least the thing was falling apart under the air pressure and gravity, and such and such.
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But Superman mindwiped a pregnant lady, and then left for 5 years, so, that still makes him a creep! Someone is a creep in all this, that's all I'm saying.
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In the Animated Series, Clark is obviously interested in his heritage, but it is curiosity, not obsession. The dark face Supes makes in this film when he realizes his dad's crystal's are stolen came off like a petulant child. Instead of curiosity or concern as to why someone stole them in the first place, you get simmering rage.
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Superman gets the idea to spy on Lois after hearing that Richard would like to abuse X-ray vision, so he gives him a taste of his own medicine and flies off when he's seen and heard what he needs, but no more....ok, that was a bit of a misplaced scene - honestly, Superman spying on people! Next Batman will be out and about in daylight helping old ladies cross the road...
I'm curious as to how Superman realises that Jason is his son. Superman would never have left Lois if he'd known that she was pregnant with his kid, he doesn't see Jason hurl the piano, nobody tells him anything...must have had a look and a listen with his supersenses and realised that Jason was a chip off the old block.
BTW, I loved how how SR used the same sound effects for superhearing as the first films - the x-ray vision was the same too! Nice little technical touches, I thought. -
I love kids, but not that one, and not in a Superman film. Hopefully, the next film will have no Lois (maybe on honeymoon with Richard?) and a different villain than Luthor. I'd like to see Darkseid. Luthor can make him a Satan analogy and then have at it with the subtext. But seriously, who should Superman date instead of Lois?
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Who cares about the fortress security when you're soul searching, despite the fact that your father has already told you everyone is dead and you're the last one. Boy is about as sharp as a bowling ball.
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I thought it was a masterpiece. With the exception of the fucking douchebags next to me, talking the whole time, it was a thrilling experience. This and Batman Begins really got everything right. More importantly they got me excited for future chapters. To me Singer's crowning achievement was casting a kid that didn't annoy the shit out of me. I normally hate kids in films like this, but I thought it really worked.
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I'll take Superman over Jesus anyday. At least he's real.
waiting for Superman Returns video game...... anyone played it yet? -
I sat down to watch the movie in the row with the railing (most theater have this right?). In come two overweight guys in their thirties with backpacks making them look like they were twelve. They had their snacks in the bags. They sat a seat away from each other. They snickered at all of the in-jokes during the film... you know, the various nods to the first film. They did this just loud enough so people around them would maybe think, "Hmm. They know something I don't." During any love or romance scene, or any serious scene without action, they showed various signs of ADD. You could practically see the keyboard marks embedded on their fingers. I will admit this, they made me think of AICN talkbackers! It was one of the most hilarious moments of my life. Just the truth of it. I'm generalizing yes, but damn it was funny. Then two equally overweight and nerdy backpack wearing, AICN card carrying mofos walk in to talk to them. DURING THE MOVIE! They were babbling about how they got 3:30 tickets too and that they were going to watch both showings. I leaned forward and told them to please sit the fuck down because there are other people in the theater. They scattered. What I love is this: Great reaction to the film in the theater. It was PACKED at 12:30pm on a Wed.! By the looks of it, a good hefty percentage of the people posting here liked it a lot at the very least. God, it's a good day! Seriously, naysayers, do you like ANYTHING? And for the record, Hellyboy... not a good movie. Good makeup... but not a good movie. Nice try though. Really puts your "opinion" into perspective. Okay, that's the asshole side of me. Really, we're all entitled to our opinion.
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The Silver Banshee. She's a femme fatale character created by John Byrne. And Superman has yet to fight a magic villain. He is just as vulnerable to magic as he is to Kryptonite - everyone always forgets that.
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little guy, helping out in small ways. He doesn't have to - he does it just 'cause. As for Superman and Wonder Woman, that is like the headcheerleader and the quarterback getting married. I will take Batman and Wonder Woman over that any day.
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Why wasn't it just called "More scenes of Wolverine"? Or "Thank God this guy didn't get to make Superman Returns"?
I've decided - SR isn't as good as the first film, but it's better than the other 2. I say 2, because Superman 4 never happened, ok? SR is the 4th Superman film. -
the one in Superman Returns. SR looked nicer, though.
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here's my review of Superman Returns.
http://blog.myspace.com/litz It's a different take, and I think it's fairly solid. -
For everyone who says that naysayers don't have anything.
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You're right about the flight. Eye bogling as the flying scene is, without the real wind, birds, and clouds, you lose a sense of reality - you're aware that you're looking at great SFX, not the real thing.
I had the same problem with Yoda in the SW prequals - yeah, he can flip and fight, but I felt a greater affinity with the flesh and blood puppet from V and VI that couldn't move much. Mark Hamill knew Yoda was real, and so did I.
Still, at least Superman didn't drop Lois for no good reason this time around. -
before this came out they all loved it and didnt mention any flaws. now i'd say 80-90% of the posts on here didnt like it and even on rotten tomatoes the rating gone down to 76%. i dont think all of these post are from people who didnt like this before it came out as it seemed 50-50. could it be the critics watched a different version to be released on dvd in 5 years as a special extended amazing edition to cash in. looks like word of mouth is killing this movie.
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G'night.
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A Midsummer night's Dream.
Puck, I think -
Since Harry asked what our dreams are for where the series will go, I would like for there to be a separate Bizarro movie. When Bryan Singer has the script ready for part 2 he will hand the script over to Michel Gondry. If Gondry is not available, he will give it to Harmony Korine or Alejandro Jodorowsky or some other crazy person. That person will reinterpret the same script into a Bizarro movie and they will be released on the same day as the Superman movie.
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...they give them for reporting (I guess $300m doesn't get you a fact checker)"...Thats funny dude! Good eye.
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No, really. You really musn't let THAT ruin the movie for you. Moriarty said his girl friend laughed when she saw his boots...really? Am I missing something here? It's a pair of fucking boots!
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I didn't really care that much, but his boots ere kind of funky looking and "blocky". I'm not sure what they were trying to do there, but again, I didn't really care much about it.
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And my dream would be for a great Superman movie, but we can both keep dreamin' cause it again' gonna happen....not with these screenwriters and this director at least.
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Among all the other flaws, I forgot all about Lois diving 50 feet down through the water and dragging Superman up to save him. I guess Superman gave her some of his powers when he shot his seed inside of her.
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And the fan community let out a collective sigh of relief after beholding Singer's Masterpiece, oh...except for the 15 jaded X men fans that post on the Aint it cool talkback, pissy and mad that X3 sucked donkey Kong balls. And let's not forget about the lone Smallville fan with multiple user handles hah hah.
Superman Returned MOST powerfully. -
Hey all, just saw a screening of the film in Australia. I've been a Superman fan since i was born, i love all things Superman (yes including 3 & 4... i saw Superman IV in the cinema when i was 5 years old).
I loved the movie, it could have been better in some parts BUT i suspect they were holding back (not showing their full deck of cards) so they have something to display for a potential sequel.
I give it 4 & a 1/2 out of 5. -
you are all a bunch of scientific virgin queer nerds. is there a single word for that? I will make one up right now. Sqerdvirgs. you are all a bunch of Sqerdvirgs!
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it was a dud, lifeless, dull, boring, kate as lois was all wrong, the kid was cute, eh...it was well made, but was very boring. Not many will want to revisit this film I am guessing, and the 9:30 showing only had 30 or so people.
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you have to remember what you are dealing with here - the squeeky wheel gets the grease, and the most vocal bitches have never created anything inspired in their entire lives, so naturally they can presume to be informed enough to attack someone elses creation, it's infinately amusing. When I say a movie sucks, I say it in jest, I didnt assemble an army of technicians, and command a multi-million dollar financed project.
That's the laughable irony of film critics, whether arm chair or payed, they are all FAILED at something. Critique is the bane of creativity, and thankfully the most inspired works through history of ANY medium, whether film, painting, literature, LONG survived beyond the banal voices of dissention.
And in the end that's sort of the magic isn't it? Long after all these cocksuckers are pushing up daisies, the legacy of films like Star Wars, Superman, etc etc ad nauseum will be entertaining crowds for the next few centuries.
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Your posts always crack me up. Good way to start out the day. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
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Everytime Kate Bosworth gets her head banged up, knocked over, punched, hit, TAKE A SWIG Of your Cheap BEER, thats about the only entertaiment you are going to get from this snooze fest, Seriously watch the drop off by next July 2nd, it will be fatal!
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Just think, that at one time Beyonce Knowles was attached to play Lois Lane.
The AICN Talkback would be five times as long, with multiple suicide notes -
Jun 29, 2006 6:54:11 AM CDT
To Celebbrate Super Man Returns "Red Kryptonight link
by well liked jerk
hxxp://www.megaupload.com/?d=BN249UJR
my frined made this song fuking around preety funny
A Red Kryptonight is
Red Alize 1/2 + Hawlian Punch + Ice Blended together -
Nope--that just doesnt seem to click with me for some reason ;)
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Saw Superman last night in Rocky River, Ohio. In short, the Spider Man 3 trailer was more exciting. Brandon Routh was fine, James Mardsen was okay, Bosworth and Spacey were just bleh. I think the story was weak and that the continuity was bad--was this a sequel to Superman II or not? It couldn't make up it's mind. I coulda left after the airplane rescue and seen enough. That was a great sequence. The rest was weak and moved very slowly. The actions taken by Lex didn't make any goddamn sense. Who needs real estate where the land is all jagged lifeless black crystal rock? No one's gonna pay for that. And Superman oughtta know by now that Lex, who here endangers the lives of millions for the 3rd or 4th time, should just be killed. Plus, Singer couldn't decide whether he wanted Luthor to be smart, but kinda hapless, or smart and just plain evil. The guy stabs superman, yet associates with a useless bimbo and her chiuahua, and he mooches of a dying old lady for money. And after all he's been through, don't you think the first thing on Luthor's agenda would be "Kill Superman?" once he know's he's back on earth? Why continue with your world-domination plan when you just gotta know Supes is gonna shit in your pool? Why bother? Bosworth didn't bring much to the picture except a better face and ass that Margot Kidder (who was the better Louis despite it), but that's partly the script. The kid was okay. I thought the kiss he gave Supes on the forehead was touching and one of the movie's only sincere, unforced moments. The piano shove was amusing, but I had a real problem accepting that this kid was the son of Supes. Because he could not have been conceived in Superman II, since Lois didn't bang Supes--she banged Clark, who'd surrendered his powers to be with her. Now, if this movie stood on it's own, you can take creative liberties. But Singer made clear that this one indeed follows 1 and 2, and SO much of his movie holds to that everywhere else (if you can get past the fact that five years ago both Clark and Lois would barely have been out of high school--not top notch reporters and the world's biggest paper). And nothing is mentioned about the havoc wreaked by Zod, Non and Ursa. All we know is that Supes put Lex in jail five years ago for something, then he left, Lois moved on, and now Lex is out. The worst part about my experience was that my theatre did NOT play the Spidey 3 trailer, which was half the reason I went in the first place. Instead I was treated to like five previews for computer animated kids movies, and a couple teen comedy romances. I was so friggin upset.
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OK... I really loved the movie. It certainly isn't perfect (not crazy about Bosworth) but it's as good a Superman movie as we were likely to see after 25+ years since the last good one... The theatre actually applauded at the end of the movie which I've VERY rarely witnessed.
Now... onto the missed oppurtunity. And this would have been a fanboy nod since Jon Peters name is still attached to the film.
The top of a skyscraper. A helicopter buzzes by in the distance. Slowly a gigantic hairy leg reaches over the top of the building, pulling up 7 more legs and the body of a giant tarantula. It's bigger than the whole roof. Camera pulls back... God it's huge! Pulls back... Pulls back... Wait a minute. Pulls back... to reveal... A regular tarantula crawling around on Luthor's train set. Peters/Smith homage. Burton homage (Beetlejuice) and a GREAT gag. Man, they really shoulda done that! -
You kids really can't stay up late, huh? Well, to be fair, I was asleep by 2am eastern. I'll just take the time to say Good Morning to all you bleary-eyed TB'ers.
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If Kryptonians were so smart, why can't they design reusable space craft in which you don't have to CRASH LAND when you arrive at your destination? Heck, why does Supes need a spaceship at all? Dumb. Also, what the hell kind of paper hires a reporter who doesn't know that "catastrophic" has no F's in it? And who the hell gives that kind of reporter a Pulitzer? At least it wasn't Lois in Supe II on the underside of the Eiffel elevator, dreaming of the Nobel, yes Nobel Peace Prize, she thinks her story will win. But man, the more I think about it the more this new version of Lois annoys me. And I agree with everyone who says that both Clark and Lois looked way young. No, it doesn't matter how old the actors are; but it completely does matter how old they LOOK, and these kids were KIDS. It's like all the major characters, minus the editor at the Planet (whatever the fuck his name is now) were in their mid 20s, and everyone else in their late 40s or just plain old, like Martha Kent and the dying widow lady at the beginning. See, this movie just has too many problems. At least the problems in Donner's movies were technical "it looks fake" or "it ignores science" problems that the viewer could get past--not problems with story or pacing. Yeah, I'm a 23 year old single female reporter at the biggest paper in the world, I slept with Superman, won a Pulitzer not for news but for an editorial, and now I've got a $475,000 house by the sea and a live-in common law husband with a seaplane. I think not. And would it have hurt to have a fly-by the Statue of Liberty shot? Singer mimicked most of the other Supes-n-Lois nightflight from II.
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The movie was so bad I think it has taken my will to live.
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a Super LET DOWN! CRAP!
really...i know Hulk was too long,
but even that movie was more fun.
and X3...Much More fun.
it's called FUN.
where in the fuck did all that time and $260 mil go? -
i have not been this dissapointed
since walking out of the last Godzilla film. -
That's how terribly bad some of these creative decisions were. The opening scene with Luthor (WHY DID WE START WITH LUTHOR INSTEAD OF KAL-EL???) wasn't quite as bad as watching Ian McKellan trying to shove a cat into an oven but it was pretty close.
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Indeed, I braved torrential rains to and fro at 10pm to see the long awaited specticle. I was amid a packed theatre of die hard fans and wives and kids (I knew I was in the right line when EVERYONE had a SUPERMAN t-shirt. EVERYONE!)
Bottom line: This aint no BATMAN BEGINS. Its an interesting to see film that has exactly 1 breathtaking special effects sequence, and lots and lots of dull stuff. And if you want "homage" and "tribute" moments, your cup runith over and all over the floor in this one.
As always, lets start with what they got right:
* The music score - John O has redone John Williams classic score and its beautiful. its everywhere - every familiar theme from film 1 is cued and reused at the right moment here. The opening credits theme march, krypton's theme, Lois "can you read my mind" running fast as a boy in smallville, and so on. Spot on.
* The Opening Credits - redone as the first 2 films. Modern cgi effects of traveling through space from Krypton and to earth. A bit fast and confusing though - is this sequence the travel of Kryptonite? often there are little rocks flying through space and its odd since this sequence starts with Krypton's remains flying off into space.
* Clark Kent is really well done. He's Christopher Reeve through and through. He's REALLY channeling reeve from the grave, and even though young, does a great job.
* Making the Daily Planet etc a direct sequel from the early films, it evokes most of the charm of the early films.
* When Superman saves the out of control car, he lifts it over his head the same way as his very first appearance in ACTION COMICS #1 - the cover.
* When Superman flies over the earth and goes off camera to the left just before the end credits, its an exact recreation of the end of film 1 with reeve.
* The plane crash - this is the show stopper - the reason to actually go see this film. Its the best you will ever see Superman do an amazing feat on film, and a treat to behold. The way he fights the plane, it breaks apart, he keeps trying, and at last gets below it to hold it up - and the force wave the rides up the plane when he stops it are spectacular. When he lands it, and goes inside, after he sees Lois and her theme plays, he says 2 lines to the passengers of the plane that was a total surprise - its a homage to the first film. It brought the house down - everyone cheered and it brought such a goofy smile to my face. Its my favorite part of the film. I have to shake Singers hand for that one - in his Homage happy status as Director, this one was a home run.
* While stupid (see below) I did enjoy superman sort of dying in the earths atmosphere and falling down down down to the earth below and crashing. That was cool to see.
Stuff that DIDN'T work:
* Starting at the start of the film - you see a totally unnecessary and really slowly moving visit to Krypton when it explodes - and the pieces slowly fly into space. It feels like something is missing there - what was the point? Granted Superman went to go find Krypton's remains, but you don't need a 5 minuet explosion to launch the film. You don't even see His ship fly to earth From krypton. And then right into the opening credits. Very odd.
* Luthor is one cold vindictive bastard in this film. You have none of Hackmans Charm or smarmy delivery of the lines, he simply uses an old woman as she dies (while dogs lick her dead fingers!) creates havoc and then turns really really disgustingly evil and putrid when Superman meets up with him at the top of hour 2. I mean, its really brutal. Kids were crying in the theatre. That's totally unneeded. And the final scene with Luthor and Parker Posey is so over the top and acted so badly My son and I both turned to each other and said at the same time "WTF!" Poor Kevin Spacey. He had a chance when he was doing a fair to average job doing a Gene Hackman like Luthor in the middle of the film, but he becomes an over the top "Riddler" when Lois and him get paired up. Lastly, as this is a direct sequel to the first film, When luthor is stealing his rare Gem from the museum, he needs to do an elaborate power off and look at each Jewel to see which one has Kryptonite in it. When he at last finds it, and the power comes on - the missing one is from ADAS ABBABA. Cute! - but, um....didn't Luthor already get his Kryptonite from the other Jewel from ADAS ABBABA in film 1? does he already know that's where Krypton deposits are? why this whole search for the right one....
* Lois, jimmy and so on are 18 years old. there's no getting around it, way too young. Even Superman looks like he just left Smallville, and younger then Reeve in film 1. Bizarre.
* Superman comes back and tries to impress Lois on the roof by flying with her, because, you know, the man who has been there for her and her kid for 5 years cant. And there's all this bad love chat, like "I forgot how warm you are. You are warm" and at the end when she's talking to Superman in a coma "they say people can hear you, I don't know if you cant hear me - can you hear me?" My first thought - who let George Lucas in here?
* As noted, Superman leaves Earth after Astronomers discover the remains of Krypton way out in space. (Now, its no longer stupid on paper, its stupid on film too.) That's about it - no other facts are given. Its a contrite and convenient forced story device to get superman away for 5 years so Lois can have a kid when he gets back. Period. Given the facts: Krypton exploded ages ago. Most of the planet followed in the wake of engines of his baby craft and fell to earth. What's left on earth or in space is now POISON to Superman. Superman cannot go past the Yellow sun and keep his powers. So he borrows his Childhood spaceship (which is only big enough to hold a kid!! not an adult man!!) and somehow launches it from earth (where it was Burned upon earth entry and crashed in film 1!!) with no earth launching equipment as they had on Krypton and Flew with oxygen, heat, food and so on for a 5 year round trip as a now human since he's away from the yellow sun, back to where Krypton exploded to see...that "Its a grave yard. thers nothing there!" (DUH!!) and then turn around and travel back home for years in his cramped ship to AGAIN crash on earth and further damage his ship. Now, before he left, he told NO ONE where he was going, or why! Not his friends, not the government, not anyone except his mother. So, everyone simply thinks he just left us. What a prick. And when he comes back, Clark reappears from hearding LAMAS or something, and now both he and Clark are back and here -
Better than the X-MEN films, not as good as the SPIDER-MAN films or BATMAN BEGINS. Great special effects, a solid performance by Brandon Routh, but horrible performances by Kevin Spacey, Kate Bosworth and Frank Langella. Singer and Co. managed to bring back the franchise with a lot of potential, but now someone like Gore Verbinski needs to step in and helm the sequel featuring Brainiac, Metallo or Doomsday. Hell, even Bizarro at this point would rock.
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"It would have been fun to give Superman a bright, sassy child, like one of the Spy Kids, and make him a part of the plot." ---- Somehow, this sums up all the criticism I've heard of the film so far. I saw it last night in a half-filled theater in the Lower East Side (it's a Wednesday night, and all the posters in town say that it opens on FRIDAY, so I'm not surprised that the audience was so thin). The crowd seemed to like it, and I was satisfied with it. I think I'll need another viewing or two to decide if I loved it. I will say this ... MEMO TO RATNER AND SO MANY POSTERS HERE TODAY: you know those moments when there weren't explosions and craaaaaazy special effects and wacky shit happening? You know those quiet scenes where characters acted (or, to be fair to the critics, tried to act)? That's called filmmaking ... I'm sure it was confusing to you, because, hey, remember X3? Movies are supposed to be FUN FUN FUN, right? That means BIG explosions ... ALL THE FUCKING TIME, YEAH!!! Oh, and sassy kids, and catch-phrases, bitch! Wow, I can see a lot of things wrong with the film. The cinematography sucks for the most part, and Lex needed to think out his plot a bit more; still, I'm hoping that Singer's stabs at quiet dignity and emotional depth wins out of the X3 super-fun-fun-fun-fun-fun style in the minds of the studio big-wigs. ----- So, where would I put this? Better than X3, Batman Begins, and X-Men ... not as good as X-Men 2, the Spider-Man films, or the original Superman. Probably as good as Hulk. There, a scientific study ...
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With each new post, you prove yourself more and more ignorant. Give it up, dude. (Uh-oh... is that another example of me treading on free speech?!).
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I am all for Brainiac and Darkseid and Doomsday. All these comments about not wanting Lex Luthor to be in any more Superman films makes me want to point something out. I think Luthor has yet to be in any of the films. The conmen calling themselves Lex Luthor in these movies are not him. They do not have the elements that make Luthor a great villain when done right.
JLU's Lex was the best screen version in my opinion, so far.
If this is all they are going to do with him, I agree, leave Lex out from now on. No more real estate scams
But one of the things that got me hopeful and interested in the film was Spacey as Luthor. Give Spacey a real plot and characterization to work with..
Makes me worry about what else they will do to the other villains. Brainiac is just an insane but very human Bill Gates. Doomsday as a prowrestler gone bad. Darkseid as an evil personal motivational speaker.
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and I don't understand where all these haters are coming from. For me, all I needed was the opening credits and that first scene with Luthor and I was in! I actually thought it was BETTER than the X-flicks simply because it was less cluttered. And quit bitching about the kid - at least they didn't give Lois a daughter and cast Dakota Fanning.
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I've never seen such pissy fanboy nitpicking in my life. As a fan of Superman in both the comics and the films (and all of the muddled continuity in between) I thought the flick was beautiful. It's heart was in the right place and damned if the sold out crowd I was with didn't enjoy the hell out of it. It's Superman in all his glory for God's sakes! Sure, there wasn't anything big to punch in this movie (and there surely will be in the next one, just like how Singer amped everything up in X2), but it WAS Superman saving the day and THAT'S what people have been waiting for almost 20 years for. Singer and Co. did a wonderful job and it's just good to have Superman back. You may now all continue whining about his boots, the realistic implications of a super villianous plot involving space crystals and world domination, and how the movie in your head (which includes a 35 minute fight with a supervillian John Q. Public has never heard of) would have been WAY better to reintroduce Superman to the movie going public after a 20 year absense.
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...all the suffocating cries of "hater" that polluted the 'X3' TalkBacks? I guess it's true what they say; cornered dogs are more vicious.
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I am not sure anybody reads these things except to read their own posts and those of their friends/enemies, so I will simply clip a CENSORED section from an email to a friend.
Superman worth seeing. Could've lost a half hour and still worked. Not whole sections, necessarily, but seconds here and there to tighten up the pacing of the whole lot. New Superman worked so well (WIFE'S NAME CENSORED) actually thought he was better than Reeve. Couldn't believe that. I thought he seemed more like a normal guy than Reeve, and maybe that's what made it so for her. His comedic timing is less sure-footed than Reeve's was, which is both good and bad, since in retrospect some of Reeves comedic moves were a bit broad. Spacey has superb comedic timing that I wish he'd used a bit more. Luthor seemed better and meaner to me when he was joking as Superman died instead of sneering and screaming. Kate Bosworth incredible looking but she didn't feel like Lois lane to me. Margot kidder was not the classic beauty but she was energetic and heartfelt and very f-able. Yet Bosworth as pretty as she is id not once give me wood during the whole movie, whereas Kidder's Lois gets me rigid even when I catch a piece of the ol movie on cable. As they might've said 70 some years ago she had "moxie." (just remembered spacey had a line about moxie in some play I saw him in, made me laugh but I can't remember what the play was). Anyway, not to open the gay direction can of worms, but the clark and lois scenes reminded me of my soap days when it seemed like the gay writers knew how to make you understand what the girls saw in the guys but not so much what the guys saw in the girls. So whenever the guys talked about how wonderful they were it was just in platitudes about how beautiful they were, but hardly any moments ever when you saw what they saw beyond the face. On secon thought I am not sure I can blame the gay factor because Singer and company did manage to make the hetero scenes work in the x-men. Never mind. Maybe the less than stellar chemistry here is due to unforseen consequences of this point in their story arc. Anyway, 3D effects, which I was most excited about, were the most disappointing. I think the 3d scenes may actually work better in standard format. But the process itself is fraught with potential that is nothing short of incroyable! When they work out the kinks this will be the future of hollywood blockbusters and make many billions in aded revenue. Goddamn, the D (had to press it four times) on my friggin keyboard is jamming up. may have to go luddite on you and insist we use the phone... -
Saw Superman yesterday, for which I took the day off to take my 11yr old daughter to see (just as my dad took the day off to take me to see Superman when I was 8).
What a completely abysmal, boring, steaming pile of shit excuse for a horribly miscast movie it was. Hands down the worst superhero movie ever, and I've seen the Justice League pilot and the orignal FF movie. Actually, one of the crappiest movies period ever. And from what my LCS owner said when I stopped by afterwards to pick up my books, I'm not alone in my opinion. Everyone who has come in and seen it either yesterday afternoon or late Tuesday night hated it. i couldn't believe how much it copied from the first one; Singer's butt buddy writing partners should be sued for plagerism...
SPOILERS
Let's see, Lex wants to profit by selling land after destroying parts of the US. Superman almost drowns because he's sinking in water and too weak from kryptonite to save himself. Lex's goofy girlfriend has a change of heart after seeing first hand what a swell guy Supes is and just how horrible Lex's goal is, and throws a monkey wrench into Lex's plans. Superman flies into the earth's core to help stop the damage Lex has caused. Hmmm, where have I seen those plot lines before? Oh, wait, there is new stuff: Lois has been knocked up somehow by Supes without any explanation at all (presumably when Superman lost his powers in Superman II, but how would a newbie know that??? if in fact that is correct...) clark and gay jimmy get to pound a few beers together. oh, and Superman - almost swamp thing-like - can recharge himself by reaching for the sun. what great additions to the superman mythology.
And what exactly was Lex's plan to defend his new little island? He talked about "high tech weapons", but all we've ever seen of the "krypton from crystals" was rocks, and lots of them. Was he and his three henchman going to throw rocks at the world???
Again, just absolute crap, and I haven't even talked about the horrible acting of Routh and Boswell, or whatever the hell the 18yr old Lois's name is.
Oh, and one last rant - could singer have possibly stuck his name in the opening credits any more??? I'm surprised it didn't say "Bryan Singer" instead of "Daily Planet" on the globe atop the DP building... -
Definitely exceeded my expectations, not a perfect movie but the good parts far outweighed the minor flaws. The end does lag, and the evil plan is a bit hokey, but it worked surprisingly well. I thought all the acting was solid, Routh did a great job and Spacey was a huge improvement over hackman. I liked the combo music, but I wish there was more original stuff, and that the transitions were more seamless instead of a big symphonic ending, then starting up the next piece. The crowd I saw it with really liked it, cheered the end an a couple action sequences. I have no doubt this will do well, and will likely hold up OK - the biggest threat to repeat viewings is probably Pirates, not the movie itself. If Pirates doesn't drop the ball (and I doubt it will) I think this is likely for #2 of the summer if not the year at the box office. I'd rank it in the middle of the recent superhero flicks, behind Batman, Spidey2, X2, but ahead of Spidey1, X3, Xmen. I really waled out of it feeling almost a little giddy. Hopefully this will follow in the footsteps of xmen and spidey and serve as the setup for a trilogy that improves with each film - this is a good start, but with room for improvement.
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are still the best comic book adaptations by a mile. After sitting through this laughable snoozefest, I realize maybe HULK wasn't so bad after all.
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Yeah, the beginning is a bit forced--do you know why? The movie was originally supposed to open with Superman's spaceship searching through the remains of Krypton. At the very last second, that scene was cut, supposedly due to time constraints. However, both Singer and Routh have already confirmed that these scenes will be put back in the film when the DVD is released. That's right, Singer pulled a PJ--make a film, cut 20 minutes from it, than sell it on the "extended dvd." Admittedly, Singer says there wont be an extended dvd--just the initial dvd will be 20 minutes longer. But I'd take that with a truckload of salt if I were you...Superman Returns Returns Better edition
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That fucking corner animation. Some people are arguing {preposterously) that it is in no way meant to tastelessly reflect or make fun of Christopher Reeve. Yeah, right. (Even more preposterous is the guy who claimed it was meant as a show of respect to Reeve. Yeah, what a respectful flattering animation.) But even if that were so, are we to believe that absolutely no one on the AICN staff made the correlation and said, "Gee, you know what guys? I just realized that animation might be misinterpretted." What's worse is that the multitude of pissed off talkback posts have made it abundantly clear that this is exactly the way this animation has been perceived. So there's no fucking excuse anymore. No pretending to be all innocent and obtuse. And the fucking thing is STILL up there..... It has been often said that Harry is childlike, reflected in his enthusiasm of blockbuster films. I would have to agree with this. He obviously has the maturity and class of a petulant, dull, snide child.
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Okay, most of these questions are answered in the film, but because folks don't actually listen to what's being said, they lose it in the shuffle.......Clark left town to 'find himself', someplace with llamas...far, far, away from Metropolis, with no phones and stuff, like writers sometimes do...he gets his job back because a guy dies...also, it was pretty realistic that Clark has to struggle to find a home...Luthor's plan was only beginning to take shape, people. Also, he's a criminal mastermind, *and* a sociopath. I mean, come on, he gets to stick it to people he hates, while having a big pile of old-lady smelling money....I hope they eat the dog, by the way....But Luthor isn't exactly a brain wizard when it comes to what comes after blowing up the fault line, or the logistics. Suspend your disbelief a little. And Lex does to Superman exactly what an ex-con would do to a guy he frigging hates: Shiv him after all his buddies beat him down....I have such mixed feelings about this film...Routh is a good actor, but I felt like the ACLU would be pissed off at the ex-cons Hate-Criming Superman at the end of the movie. Though, I don't think that Routh's Superman is gay, I bet those evil former federal guests do, and they basically take out their homo-repression on him. Yeah, lots of stuff is the same as the other films, but things that threw back that made me happy were the fact that the kryptonite came from another Addis Ababa meteor...anyhow, see the flick. It's good shit.
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Seriously guys, you need a fucking tire-iron beating for leaving that animation up there for more than 24 hours. Maybe it wasn't delibrate, but that is the most disrespectful shit, disrespecitng a guy EVERY ONE OF YOUR PATRONS holds dear in their hearts. What IS deliberate on your behalf, is leaving that up after the massive barrage of angry posters asking you to take it down. You've been made aware of what that animation comes across as, and you still don't take it down, which means now you really are deliberately taking a shit on Christopher Reeve and your readers. Fuck you guys. Seriously. Feel free to ban me all you want.
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That animation is not kewl. Tasteless, crude and surprisingly mean-spirited. Whatever happened to Harry being sodomized by Jack Black? That was much better.
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I won't repeat the good and bad, as everyone above has already covered it, but SUPERMAN RETURNS was good, but not great. The poster who mentioned wanting to see Gore Verbinski direct the sequel, I agree. In fact, WB should treat their Superman franchise like their Harry Potter movies. In other words, hand each sequel to a really good, maybe a niche, guest director.
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In a few hours we'll have the result of yesterday's opening announced. And people in both camps will jump on it as evidence of "Hey, see I told you it (sucks/rocks), it's already a (hit/flop)!" Let's not forget, this was originally scheduled to open friday and advertised as such, many billboards and busses still up still list friday's date. Same thing happened with Shrek 2 - most people didn't know about the wednesday opening, and when wednesday and thurdsay were relatively modest, people were screaming from the rooftops that it's a flop! And felt like jackasses when the weekend came and broke records. Don't get too crazy over the results of one day, or even one weekend. The big question is how much can it make before Pirates opens (which I still think will be bigger).
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Do you have some financial stake in the film??? Even if you love it (which is simply unfathomable), why not just say fuck the BO and be glad you have a great movie to watch? And P.S., it may open strong but this movie is going to erode faster than the beach in a hurricane.
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If you look at all the big trailers that are being attached to 'Pirates,' the studios think so too. You can always tell which film is supposed to be *the* film of the summer based on the previews in front of it.
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If there's a sequel (and apparently everyone's on board for one so long as Singer doesn't bail) we're left with a little baggage here . . . namely the kid. I hope they have some ideas of where to take that . . .
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The man gave Garfield: A Tale of Two Kitties and Tokyo Drift more starts than SR. That just shows how wildly inconsistent he can be. I would gouge my eyes out before seeing either of those movies. And Ebert is the same man who called Gothika "a great popcordn movie." Are you kidding? If you enjoy spitting your popcorn out in disbelief, overwhelmed by the stupidity of what you are watching, then Gothika is "a great popcorn film." Delve a little deeper into Ebert's review and you'll find that he wishes Singer would have given Supe Jr. the Spy Kids treatment. He wanted a sassy kid that helped Superman kick ass and threw in an occasional wisecrack. How incredibly horrible would that have been?
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the next one can't be good. Just let Lex and Kitty die on that island (which was SO lame) and kill the kid. No one wants to see SUPERBOY. Bring in some REAL writers and not the people who gave us Final Destination 3. And while you're at, Superman's cape is supposed to be RED. Not maroon, not burgundy, not merlot or whatever the fuck color that one was...RED. Thank you.
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You would have seen some of the most horrid, campy action pieces, dialogue, and characters in your life. In Ebert's world, Superboy would have been doing a Gary Coleman impression. At first, I was defending Ebert's position reguarding Superman--until I actually read the last half of the article. That SuperTween idea of Ebert's completely undermines his entire position.
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Kill Lex? Are you kidding me? If Singer had managed to squeeze out a couple more scenes of Spacey being insanely evil (like the scene with Supes on the new continent) this would've even surpassed my lofty expectations. As for the kid . . . can Lois and Richard break up and Richard takes him outta the picture . . . seriously, just get rid of him.
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Sitting through Spykids was immense pleasure compared to the urine drink that was Superman Returns.
Ditto on your last post, JohnGalt. Singer and his little butt buddies-writing tandem know absolutely shit about Superman, right down to the colors of his costume. Routh looked like he was wearing a fucking fruit (how fitting!) roll-up on his back.
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He likes what he likes, doesn't like what he doesn't like. And he didn't say he wanted SuperTween. He just said it would've been nice if the kid had a personality, like say the kids in SPY KIDS instead of doing a Damien impression. That's all. But by now, there are millions of people disappointed by Superman Returns, seems silly to keep bring Ebert up...
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FUCK YOU, you ruined this talkback. HOW FUCKING STUPID CAN YOU POSSIBLY BE? Do you not realize that posting long links stretched the fucking talkback making it fucking unreadable? WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR PROBLEM?
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I will definitely NOT be there, especially if we have the same screenwriters. I suspect Spacey could've been a good Luthor but alas, you can't make caviar out of fish eggs. I have never read a Superman comic so I have no idea what the other possibilities are as far as villains but I can't imagine one sillier than this Lex.
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I'm sorry you are so obsessed what a filmmaker does or does not do with his ass/cock, but that has nothing to do with the film, dude. The only thing that has changed is your perception of the film and its makers because of your prejudice. How pathetic. So the new film didn't meet your amped-up, obsessive geek expectations, what a surprise. I think you've made superman just a little too larger than life to live up to. From what the whiners on this board have said Singer erred by not changing enough and by changing too much. This is why so many directors did not want to make the film. It's almost a no-win. The diehards have such reverence for the source material that they will trash any new movie no matter what is done.
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It did look like a fruit roll-up! That's very, very funny. See, as much as I understand the idea behind darkening the color of the cape (lets it play with light and alters the mood), Im not sure I agree with it--I'm much more of a stickler about it. But I do not understand why they made it a rubber cape and not cloth. My guess is that it has to do with the fact that computers cant simulate cloth very well without making it look plastic; the director simply cheated by having a plastic cape, and thus making it a smoother transition from reality to cgi. Just my guess, anyway.
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Yeah! Let's kill him. In fact, lets hold a contest and the whiniest guy in here can have a cameo in the next movie as the guy who shoots the little tyke in the head. And then we can have the dark brooding Superman who kills people you all so desparately seem to crave.
Look, I too was a extremely worried about the kid. He could have been incredibly annoying and a huge anchor on the character of Superman. But now that he exsists, I think Singer did a good job handling it. What the kid is remains to be seen. He's half human, so kryptonite doesn't affect him, but he also wasn't able to save his parents from drowning himself. Basically, he aint Superboy yet...and he may never be. I thought it was cool how Supes told the kid the same stuff his Jor-L said to him and then leaves him in the care of human parents, just like he was.
But then again, I'm romanticising the ideals of Superman and not bitching about the color wheel used to design the costume. So I'll step back. -
John, have you ever SEEN the original Superman movie? Hackman's Luthor makes Spacey's look like fuckin Darth Vader. And for the record, I'm hoping they bring in another villain (Brainiac, Doomsday, or Metallo could all potentially rule) but keep Lex around, because seriously, it's not Superman without him.
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Spacey's Luthor was MUCH more dangerous than Hackman's used-car salesman approach. And dont get me started on how horrifying and just plain shocking the Rodney King scene was--it really did bring a tear to me eye.
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The man makes his living criticizing the creative works of others, but we shouldn't be allowed to scrutinize his opinion? Some have used Ebert's opinion to support their own. All I'm saying is that it's not like Ebert is never wrong. The guy has some opinions that are baffling. If people don't want Ebert in the discussion, they shouldn't hitch their wagon to his.
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Spacey has tons more screentime. Now seriously, folks...did you watch this movie??? It would be intersting to go through the movie with a stop watch because I would bet real money (hell, I already know it) that Luthor has MORE screentime than Superman/Clark Kent combined. In fact, Kent is barely in the movie at all. Superman has about as much dialogue in SR as Mystique in X2, if that much. And I'm sorry, I can forgive all sorts of continuity problems between Donner's films and this...but didn't Lois Lane jump into a waterfall in Supes II to prove Kent was Superman? Even if she didn't really prove it, she was still very suspicious....how far did this mind-wipe kiss go back to? How can she even remember her night with Superman? ONE LAST THING: I do not want to be associated with all the homophobes blasting Singer and Co. cause they're gay. Gay people are perfectly capable of making kick-ass superhero movies. They've done it before and will no doubt do it again. So all the homophobes, all I can say is stop being so fucking gay.
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People seem to forget that Ian Mckellen is gay and performed one of the greatest scenes of kick-assery ever witnessed: YOU SHALL NOT PASS! Now if only Gandalf would stop being gay...
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It's weird when people keep comparing the Super-beating to "Rodney King," or the plane crash / rescue to United 93. It's sad to live in a world where a guy can't get his ass kicked and a plane can't be in distress without evoking what is now politically-charged bullshit from the past. Don't get me wrong--911 and Flight 93 were the greatest tragedies ever, and the people were heroic. But why can't a plane crash in a movie just be a plane crash in a movie instead of always being interpreted as a necessary reflection of some very ugly and very real-historic event? I'll give it to ya thought, the Rodney King description was apt. But apart from the krypto-stabbing Supes really didn't get it that bad. I didn't see him bleed (not counting the blood on the Krypto knife when lois pulled it out). Ah, screw it. The plane crash was the best thing about this movie anyway. The machine-gun / bullet in the eye was cool, but let's admit it, that whole sequence was unnecessary and dragged out because Singer and co. WANTED to have a bullet-to-the eye.
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Jun 29, 2006 10:45:23 AM CDT
I'm not making excuses, I'm just making an observation.
by minderbinder
People called Shrek 2 a flop, and they looked like idiots by the end of the weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens again. And I'm discussing the box office because it's already being discussed - if it's pointless to discuss the BO if you don't have a financial stake in the film, why are YOU talking BO? Smells like hypocracy to me.
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is the height of stupidity. I imagine better than half of hollywood is gay. These guys are ACTORS--people who pretend and play dress up 24/7! To whine and moan about hollywood being gay is like being offended that a neo-nazi rally is filled with bald guys. What do you dumbasses expect?
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Where the hell did Machine Gun Guy come from and what the hell was he doing? Was this part of the Distract Supes ploy, along with Kitty's out-of-control car? That museum break-in seemed so simple there was really no reason for the distraction. Shutting off the power to the entire building to be able to see the kryptonite in the dark? Hey, Lex...ever hear of just turning off the lights? There's a switch on the wall right over there...
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Ebert reviews a movie based on the audience for the movie, not his own personal tastes. Garfield is intended for kids, Tokyo Drift for car fans. For what those movies were expected to deliver and what you want to see the movies for, they provide. Superman has a broad general audience and it does not deliver the goods.
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because it showed a guy getting his ass handed to him by gang of big guys. This doesnt reflect any vested sympathy or sadness and shock at the Rodney King incident, but rather my desire to not spoil a scene for a bunch of people and to use a rather humorous (to my twisted mind) reference. No, I didnt flash Rodney King when I saw that scene--I just felt really sad that my superman, the hero who is larger than life, was being beaten and reduced to a martyr-type status. I felt very m uch the same as I did watching the Passion, but at no time did i think of those other stories or events. Again, I was just being a smartass.
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That comment is true. Here are some of the few lines Supes uttered during the film. A couple were just rips or repeats from the first two movies. It was like he had a string on his back that you pulled, and he'd spit out one of these beauties:
1) Goodbye/night Louis 2) Are you alright, miss? 3) I'll be around 4) His repeat of the JorEl speech 5) his repeat of the "statistically speaking, flying is still the safest form of travel" joke. Superman should have said some interesting new things like, "Say Lois, about that Richard guy. Do you call him Dick for short? And speaking of shorts and Dicks, I'm hardly short in the dick department, so come take a 'ride' with me, beyotch." -
Being a long time Superman fan , seeing the original 10 times in the theater(superman : the movie and the original Star wars are still the two best movies of all time) , I was going to write this long review but WCME beat me to the punch. Excellent break downs of what is right and wrong with this movie. Some of the few things I want to add which others have addressed is this Lois Lane is horribly written. She has no sass and is not Lois plain and simple. Margo kidder, Terri Hatcher and Erica Durance have the essence of Lois Lane. Any casual Reader of the Superman comics would tell you Superman would never just leave his home earth for 5 years. Even after Superman lost his powers for one years in the recent aftermath Infinite Crises Clark Kent stayed in metropolis fighting for truth and justice. Clark risks his life many time with his powers to save others. Superman would never leave his home family and friends for 5 years. The Son/kid story is all wrong and as well terrible script writing. I really wanted this move to top the original superman 78 but because of the story line and script and casting(Lois Lane) it falls short. It is a beautiful movie and has probably the best all time visual super hero performance on film, but as a whole, Disappointingly falls short of the original. Brandon Routh is Superman and does a wonderfulk job. The opening and ending credits and musical score reminded me of the greatest superhero movie of all time , Superman: the movie.
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I can assure that my feelings about Rodney King are entirely different than what happened to Superman. In the movie, Superman is a mythic hero who isnt giving up, is doing the right thing, and is being horribly...humbled before our eyes. Rodney King was just some junkie loser low-life that was unfairly beaten. Two totally different emotional responses for me.
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was meant to remind us of a prison fight. After all, these are all ex-cons beating up Supes and Luthor stabbing him with the kryptonite was your basic shiv-that-white-boy move. There is probably a way this parallel could've been made that would've been witty but alas, this movie avoids wit like Supes avoids kryptonite.
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was pretty unnecessary, though cool. They were robbing a bank or something, though; the other guys had huge bags full of loot. Also, the reason they shut the power off was not just to see the Kryptonite in the dark, but because if you break the glass in a museum, even a natural history museum, you'd better believe an alarm's gonna go off and Superman won't be far behind . . .
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But I am saying that if you play with fire often enough, you will get burned. You lead the police on a chase, are completely impaired, and possess a history of resisting arrest, drug abuse, and assault, you're just asking for something bad to happen to you. Yes, the cops were completely out of line, but King was basically spending his entire life tossing gasoline on an open fire.
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I thought that it was a great movie overall and that people just need to open up their imagination a bit more. Singer did not want to re-make a "new" movie like Batman Begins or start a whole new series with Spiderman. He wanted to play off the original concept of how people saw Superman on the big screen with C Reeves and Donner's interpretation...I thought this was a great idea and a good way to re-introduce superman back into our lives withough re-inventing him!! Yes, there were alot of plot holes in the movie but maybe they will be answered in the sequels...as to when Lois was impregnated, how or if she knew it was supe's kid before the piano scene, etc. The movie was 2 1/2 hours long and they could have made it longer to explain his absence in more detail(20 mins was cut from this film about him searching krypton and that was to shorten it), about why Clark was gone(as in the book they say he was on sabbatical and his mother, Martha, was sending postcards to everyone so to keep hid identity a secret from superman's pretending he was still on earth, hence, the reference to Llams in the movie). For everyone to question everything in the movie and try to relate it back to reality, like Luthor's plot to build an island and kill billions..what are the implications of this on the economy, etc...then you really need to not go and see it be/ you do realize you are watching a guy on screen fly around in tights saving people with heat vision coming out of his eyes...how does this relate to reality??
And for people to question this kid and how sequels are going to go I think they setup a ton of things which we dont think about....#1 Lex knows Supes has a kid!(he left him on the boat for a few reasons..if he was super than he didnt want to fight him, he knew he was going down with the boat and even if he got out would be surrounded by kryptonite anyway if that did affect him....this could lead to Lex doing some more bad things with that twist in #2. #2 The clark/lois/superman/richard plot - superman eventuallyt has to tell her again that he is clark also at least for the kid's sake at some point. #3 The crystals are still out there! #4 the new planet krypton in space with kryptonite...this could be huge to introduce a new villain of any sort...
Now for the last thing which I noticed mentioned on this site was about the tearing away of the suit at the end...how could it be bulletproof, fireproof, etc, but they could rip it off?? Well I think it has to do with the same thing as the crystals...they form to whatever they come into contact with like the kryptonite before they launched it into the water. Superman was powerful when he fought bullets & fire...when they rip the suit off of him he is sick with kryptonite and practically dead(the same when Lex stabbed him thru the suit)...the suit comes from krypton and probably grown from crystals as they said everthing was grown from the "alien tecnology"...Again, it just expands your imaganation i think and you have to look at everything with open eyes....THE ONLY THING that was weird is that they ripped it down the middle but the kid is staring straight at the superman symbol on the suit on the chair...now that was just an error in directing I think.
Please tell me what you think!! -
my god people... it ain't hard to moderate a message board.
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Why cheapen his character by making his plan nothing more than a real estate scam? By making a Kryptonite-laced contintent, a more effective motivation would have been to create a new world where Superman couldn't exist. Seems to me that this idea would be more true to Lex's character, who sees Superman as a threat to humanity and wants to protect the world from him (while ruling over this new world, of course).
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Clearly you are an idiot. It was I who preposterously "claimed it was meant as a show of respect to Reeve". Here is the money quote: "Now, here's a thought (for my own amusement): why doesn't anyone think that this animation/icon may in fact be in praise of Mr. Reeve? You know, a man confined to a wheelchair yet still remains the true Superman in our hearts & minds? Oh boy...Flame On!" -- It's clearly an invitation for Talkback drama which you appear to have overwhelmingly accepted. Come on, can you not see the sarcasm laced throughout that post?
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Don't bring your high-fallutin' sarcasm in here! Irony has been banned from this site for about 6 years, along with spellcheck and good manners. Didnt you know that?
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Then you are clearly an idiot. It was a bad joke that went too far and now Fat Ass and Co. don't want to own up to it so they invent these bogus Reeves-tribute BS arguments. IT'S DISGUSTING AND COMPLETELY INAPPROPRIATE. Why not show Reeve flying out of his wheelchair and passing the baton to Routh if it was really supposed to be a tribute? Maybe Luthor should pour some crystals in your ear so you'll grow a fucking brain.
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that's kewl.
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is waaaaaaaaay outta line. Just own up to your damn mistakes and change it . . . maybe to something to do with pirates . . .
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that's kewl.
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Its not funny, just...sick. And I dont mean sick in a good way.
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There is a Pulitzer for Best Editorial Writing. So that is one less mistake for people to bitch about.
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was directed at Harry aka Fat Ass, lest there be any confusion.
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Hell, even Roger Ebert, the Most Evil Man in America, has won a Pulitzer prize! And I will throw Superman Returns one bone....the line: "Pulitzer prizes are like Academy Awards. Nobody remembers what you won one for, just that you won one." was pretty good, although I think I was the only one in my theater that laughed. Oh well, I liked it.
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The kid was certainly no more annoying than Jake Lloyd, but the whole idea of him being Superman's kid is just plain wrong. Larry Niven wrote the definitive essay about this subject...
http://www.redboots.net/comics/moswok.htm
Other than that, the movie was pretty cool. Routh was okay as Superman, but sensational as Clark Kent.Nothing to make you forget Reeve, but pretty good anyway. -
I'm in South Korea and I just got back from a late night showing near Seoul. After the movie was over, my wife asked the projectionist if he had any posters because I'm a huge fan, and the projectionist went to a room and gave us a roll of the actual 35 mm celluliod film of the threatrical trailer. When rolled up, it's diameter is 11 cm (5.25"). The roll "started" with the gunshot in the eye, which is the end, so we re-rolled it and I figure it's got got a short clip of almost every pivitol scene from the movie (no kid shots). The only thing different from what you would see in the States, are the subtitles in Korean (which actually helps determine what is being said and which way the film should be viewed). Awesome film, definately holds up to the original Donner films with much richer colors.
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How the kid is wearing Aquaman pj's at the end? I thought that was pretty funny. Btw I really enjoyed the movie.
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Who puts a pool table on a fucking boat? Every time they show it, the balls are rolling around because of the waves. That's what bugged me the most about the movie, I can't believe I haven't seen anyone mention it anywhere.
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I really hate the whole super-man kid angle but...Anyone hear the rumor lex luthor let amy from the congo live in otisville????
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This message board style is a relic of a bygone era and there's a reason why no one uses it anymore.
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It was indeed sarcastic. You were very close to receiving a typed lashing the likes of which haven't been seen in these here TBs since...well...yesterday probably. Cheers.
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I thought it was hilarious. Or at least, it could've been. I kept waiting for that punchline to come...but it never did. Amazing. How can Gore Verbinksi and Co. somehow give almost all the pirates (even small character) in POTC a personality but Singer and Co. cannot be troubled to even write LINES for Luthor's goons, let alone personalities. Just a little thing like struggling to play pool on a rocking boat can add something and it costs you nothing. If I had to count all the missed opportunities in this movie...
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Well, I like to think of myself as an outsider. I tend to not pay attention to the so-called "rules" and outlawed practices on this site. But I appreciate the wit, buddy.
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I had to also just say that animation is the worst thing ive ever seen. I just wanted to add my number to the many people who says it needs to be taked off. TAKE IT OFF!
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And I hope Christopher Reeve gets to come down from Heaven and watch. Seriously, it is just beyond awful. I am not even a big Reeves fan that regards him as holy because he was paralyzed. But he was a good guy and I thought one of your idols and oh yeah, HE'S DECEASED so show some goddamn respect!!!
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Why did there have to be a puncheline--its funny enough as a visual cue (pun intended). This version of Luthor seemed to imbody the sort of dry, sardonic wit that I tend to enjoy, so for me, this film was filled with laughs and witty, subtle asides.
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Got free passes to go back and look at it again
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It was just there in the background as a WTF element. I actually seriously wonder if the filmmakers understand the absurdity of having a pool table on a boat or if they really are that dense. It didn't play, period.
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Reread your post again. It is not at all clear what your intention was. If there was some intent on your part to convey irony (meaning you actually believe the opposite of your words) then it was so subversive as to be non-existent. Maybe you should be calling yourself an idiot for not being a more coherent writer. Your invitation to "flame on" simply implied that you expected your post would piss people off. .....Re: "It's clearly an invitation for Talkback drama." You must be very proud. But in my opinion, intentionally saying things solely to offend and bait doesn't make one witty. Finally, the assumption that you were in fact being totally unironic would only be natural, considering the number of very sincere posts defending Harry and Co--saying he "didn't realize" the implications of that animation. And if you think this post is out of line, I would ask you to consider two things: 1) The wording of your original post; 2) the usual reaction that occurs when one person calls another person an idiot.
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$21 Million!!!!
awesome
exactly what war of the worlds did last year, and this one will have a lot better buzz! -
You've been bitching about 'Superman Returns' for the better part of a day and I do believe you're running out of material, JohnGalt. The pool table scene never got the laught it "should have" and was just a "WTF element?" Somehow I think I'll get over it. Usually film nerds like things to be going on in the background; I don't think the scene was supposed to inspire "WTF"s, I just think that we're meant to assume someone had started playing pool earlier when the waters weren't as choppy and now they're rolling around and hey, look, that's kind of neat that Lex is talking and the pool balls are doing stuff at the same time. It's not meant to be analyzed, it was just a throwaway visual flair. We get it: Singer fucked up Superman so badly that he did almost everything wrong. You don't need to list every single scene in the movie and explain how Gore Verbinski would have done it better (and he had very little to do with imbuing the pirates -- all 4 or 5 of them -- with any personality. I love how a rivalry has started up between those two franchises because... because Moriarty liked one and not the other, I guess. They're almost nothing alike.).
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Sounds about right. Could perform very similar to WOTW, which would give it a final take of about $220 million. With overseas, DVDs, etc, still a profitable venture but well below expectations for WB, I'm sure.
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Really good film but somehow distant. I never totally got lost or sucked in to the movie, but enjoyed watching it most of the way through.
This thing has some amazing visuals, some of the best superhero shots ever, and some amazing action sequences! I wanted to yell out "WOW!" and/or clap at times. Some reviews say the movie is humorless, what film were they watching?
My gripe is the melodramatic way the love stuff was handled. I'd prefer a more suppressed love story between Lois and Supes. Lois' typical female martyristic attitude was far too obvious...and really, Supes invading their privacy and spying? The last 15 minutes lacked severity or urgency and concluded far too quietly. Overall a far superior film of this genre and quite a good film on it's own merit, if maybe a little too distant. However I defy anyone to watch this and not have at least one wow moment. Brandon Routh is a total heart-throb too.
HEY! Did anyone notice how fake supes looked in a few close ups? I thought the closeup when he was outside Lois' made him look like a CGI creation. -
I am blue in the face and there is nothing you can do to stop me. Nah, nah, nah. And yes, pool table on a boat is ridiculous...almost as ridiculous as strapping a spaceshuttle to the top of a 777.
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Jun 29, 2006 11:56:24 AM CDT
Thumper2k1,what would you suggest they replace it with?
by excaliburffolkes
What style of board is better?
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The audience I was with seemed to laugh at the pool table and other luthorisms. Not that Im bringing this up to be contrary. I just find it interesting that different audiences react differently (even in the same culture). So far, I've found the best audiences for movies are in the california area (no surprise there) and in New York state (not that Im biased). However, I cannot stand watching movies in the desert states--the audiences always seem like their half asleep.
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take that damn animation down!!!
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showbizdata.com
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Have you seen Heaven's Gate? Not very many action scenes. You know, it has those scenes you call "acting scenes"? Get my point? JACKASS.
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Yeah, I was there opeing day at 12:30 and the theater was packed. Wow. Piss and moan all you want guys. Who cares. Do you guys REALLY need action 100% of the time. A.D.D. must be running rampant will AICN. It was a great flick with some excellent emotional storytelling.
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I saw the movie in Daytona Beach area. We have a lot of pilots around here and the sight of a shuttle (even this miniature one) piggybacking the 777 got the biggest laugh of the movie. Yeah, they'll save a lot of fuel doing the burn up there...too bad they'll never get the fucker off the ground.
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I hope that isn't supposed to be some "dead Christopher Reeves" thing . . even if not, it's pretty tasteless . . .
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Seriously, if that little picture in the corner of this website actually smacks of disrespect to Chris Reeve or the dude from Hannibal, or Stephen Hawking...or any other guy who is now wheelchair-bound to you, then you clearly cannot see that the animated pic is Hercules in a Superman Costume...not a posthumous joke at the expense of Reeve. It's not Chris Reeve...I mean the guy who draws them would have drawn Chris Reeve if he wanted to draw Chris Reeve. I mean, it could be worse, for all that, and not to mention that the guy's dead...Big deal. Guess what folks, that's what's going to happen to us all. We die, and then we don't get a say in what's said about us after. Don't get all bent out of shape about this stupid picture, which, by the way predates, I'm sure, the death of Christopher Reeve and Dana Reeve...probably not paraplegia, but still, it's almost dumb enough to be non-offensive...When you let something like that get twisted into a big deal, you're some kind of drama-addict that NEEDS something to be offended by. Would it be better that it's a picture of Harry in a grease or semen-stained Supes costume, while blowing Abraham Lincoln's corpse, and finger-banging Helen Keller while voting for a National Socialist candidate? I mean, it's grossly inappropriate, but if you take something that was meant to be a dumb joke: Hercules' avatar in a Supes costume...and make it into a 'hate crime' against the memory of a dude who played Superman...then you need medication beyond the regular whackadoo medication I take.....Spacey's Luthor blows doors down...
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http://tinyurl.com/h4ykv Except they used to do it in real life. Don't you remember those? They used to take the shuttle up on the back of a plane to do test landings.
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I wasn't getting on your case for bitching about 'Superman Returns' (real mature response, by the way), I don't care if you toot your horn 'til you collapse, but you're stretching. Everytime someone else picks a nit, you're all over it like white on rice. Am I supposed to believe you actually hated everything about this movie? And am I really supposed to trust you if you did? And yes, a pool table on a boat is stupid, so you're not teasing me by saying it is.
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Seriously. Rent the old movie. This is the exact same thing with better special effects and worse actors.
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The real program of shuttle piggybacking used 747s, which are drastically lighter planes 777s, which could not be used for such purposes. But that's pretty niche info so I guess I can let that one slide...
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but what was wrong with the 777 piggyback? The enterprise test flight occurred in similar fashion during the 70's. Yeah, the enterprise was mostly just an empty airframe and a pilot's seat, but C141s and C-17s haul far more weight than a fully loaded space shuttle. Couldn't a 777 haul a space shuttle?
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The things you mentioned about what Superman represents I agree with. But there is also more to it for me.
Superman represents the ultimate in being worthy of what ever power is given to you.
It would be easy for Superman to make mankind into his pets. Even if it is benevolently motivated, it would still be a horrible abuse of power. It is exactly what Zod assumed Superman had done in the second movie when he saw Superman cared for the humans.
I really liked the fact that they touched on this subject in the last episode of JLU when Superman made his speech about living in a world of cardboard, worried about who he might accidentally kill. But there is a more subtle side to it.
If Superman did everything for mankind, the human race would stop advancing. Humans would become a species of herd animals whose ambition never extended past its next meal.
But instead, he protects mankind from other powerful overwhelming forces that do not share his sense of freedom for others to direct their own lives. Be it Darkseid or whoever. He protects humans from overwhelming forces of nature or villains to grant humans the potential to achieve their own dreams, and to serve as an example of responsibility and nobility.
Superman inspires.
My favorite interpretation of Luthor is he sees himself as the ultimate in human achievement, Then Superman shows up and shows him their is a whole new level Luthor can -
before I even posted. By the way, yeah, I realize that a C141 and a c-17 are VASTLY bigger planes, but i figured that since the 777 wasnt carying anything other than the shuttle and a handful of people, there wouldnt be too much weight. You a pilot by any chance?
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But I must say, it really is silly to argue about such things. I only brought it up to show how different audiences react. I imagine most wouldn't think anything of it but in my theater, it played differently.
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Kryptonite, bad scripts and melodramatic fan-boy directors.
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I meant to say the C-5, but for some reason my brain was flashing back to the 141. To those who have no idea what I'm talking about, the c-5 (aka the galaxy)was the cargo plane that would open fore and aft, haul roughly 70 thousand lbs, and was so huge it required its own runways. The plane is indeed a BDMF.
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Singer had many other scenes that he had to cut in order to keep it from being a 3 hour movie. Warner Bros would not allow him to put out a 3 hour Superman film so he trimmed it to 2.5 hours. I would have loved to see these scenes, but I understand why he had to jump straight to Metropolis to tell the main part of the story. I would love to see a 2 hr 55 min or 3 hour version of Superman Returns
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I thought this movie was going to be GREAT, and if anything, maybe I'd be a little let down and it would end up being just GOOD, but really, I'm shocked to say it was actually BAD. While the movie looks absolutely gorgeous, thanks to Tom Sigel's crisp, polished photography and the outstanding effects work, I was left feeling underwhelmed, unimpressed, due to the lame script, the bad casting/acting, and the fact that Singer's obsession with Donner's original made it feel as though the movie were too afraid to come out from underneath the shadow of the fantastic original. I must admit, I really agree with the guy that sent in an early review of the flick to AICN here and complained about how 'slavishly devoted' this movie is to the 1978 Donner flick. At the time, I couldn't really see why that was such a bad thing, but now that I've seen the movie, I definitely understand what the guy was complaining about. The use of the "Marlon Brando" footage, which once sounded like such a cool idea, was pretty retarded actually, since hardly any of it was remotely new. Most of it is just his voice ringing in Supes's head and most of that stuff is heard in the first half-hour of Donner's movie (well, at least the extended version, which I don't really count as new and unseen). I had originally thought that Luthor's evil plan sounded pretty cool, but in the end, it was at its very core pretty much the same plan he had in Donner's movie: it's all about real estate. I just felt that the unique piece of the plot (the idea that Supes has left and now returned) and the questions it raises of whether or not the world needs a saviour were for the most part tossed out in favour of a very run-of-the-mill story, in which Superman comes back just in time to foil that dastardly Lex Luthor's evil plan and save the day one more frigging time... but of course, not before getting stabbed by some kryptonite, because there always has to be kryptonite. I also have complaints about the film's length (so much build-up and then the movie refuses to end, piling such silly sequences onto the heap as Superman goes to the hospital! and Superman shares a sappy moment with his son!) and the movie concludes in a quite unsatisfying manner, too. There are some truly amazing images in this movie, like Supes carrying that huge hunk of New Krypton into space, but then there are the laughably bad ones, like, just a moment later, Supes falling to earth in a crucifixion-like pose. Anyways, on top of all that, my main problem with the movie comes down to the casting/acting. Brandon Routh may LOOK like Christopher Reeve, but he doesn't have the acting chops to back it up. He's alright as Clark (though nowhere near as much fun as Reeve in the role) and he downright stinks as Superman. His line deliveries, his expressions... the guy is wooden as a board. And then you have Kate Bosworth as Lois. I never liked the idea of her casting, but she certainly looked cute with the dark hair. Sadly, her portrayal of Lois is dull and uninteresting, two things Lois Lane should never be. This Lois is a pale imitation of the character. Instead of being spunky and tough, she's just sort of flustured. As for Kevin Spacey, who it seems everyone is raving about, I thought he just seemed bored as hell up there on the screen. His Lex Luthor was just a big jerk. He didn't make me hate him the way great supervillains should or even pity him; he just came across as a dick with nothing better to do. I also can't say I care for the whole addition of the kid character. Adding pointless kid characters is never a good idea. So, there you have it, a pretty negative response from me. I wish I could say that I'm looking forward to seeing what Singer does with the sequel (assuming it is to happen) and that I hope he can fix this movie's mistakes, but knowing that Routh and Bosworth would be returning as well, I imagine I'd just end up being disappointed again.
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First - my apologies for calling you an idiot. That was a little quick-on-the-draw. You seem like a reasonable fella. Second - I have to utterly disagree with you on the nature of my previous post. I don't think you're seeing the forest for the trees. I think it's safe to say that my sarcastic scenario is not at all what Harry & Co. intended. Simply implying it, would probably earn some ill rebuke on an already well stoked fire (such as yourself). But such is the nature of the AICN TalkBacks. You know that. Besides, I don't see how I could have telegraphed it any clearer unless I were to have attached a smilie. (Although the idea of my intent being so "subversive as to be non-existent" does have an intriguing ring to it.) Third - I never said that Harry & Co. "didn't realize" the icon implication. Finally - I'm not going to try and get into an argument with you, jollysleeve. It's a waste of both of our time. But proud? Hardly. I'm just disappointed that any of this required further explanation.
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If that icon offends thee, get the fuck out. Seriously. Just fucking go. I don't know how many fucking times it can be explained to you fucking idiots. THAT ICON IS NOT A FUCKING DEAD ACTOR. THAT ICON IS HERC NORMAL FUCKING ICON IN A FUCKING SUPERMAN SUIT IN HONOR OF THE RELEASE OF SUPERMAN RETURNS, YOU BRAINDEAD BUNCH OF FUCKTARDS. JUST DO SOME FUCKING RESEARCH. CHECK ONE OF HERC'S OLD FUCKING TALKBACKS. SEE THE ICON? THAT REMIND YOU OF CHRIS REEVE, TOO???? MAYBE YOU THINK IT DISHONORS DEAD ALIENS AT ROSWELL, YOU IMBECILES? IT'S NOT A DEAD FUCKING ACTOR; IT'S A GREEN-SKINNED (NOT PASTY WHITE), DOUBLE AMPUTEE (NOT QUADRIPELIGIC), WITH AN IV, IN A FUCKING WHEELCHAIR. ALIENS LIKE SUPERMAN, TOO, YOU MORONS. IF YOU'RE OFFENDED, TAKE A FUCKING HIKE. SERIOUSLY. GET FUCKING LOST, TWITS.
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Tried to drown them. Still Spacy sucked. She-Otis sucked too. Kumar kicking Supes, is just wrong.
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do a good (and unbiased) job of putting the BO numbers in perspective. Superman Wednesday bow: $21.1 million // Spiderman 2 Wedneday bow: $40.4 million (with lower ticket prices 4 years ago).....Now, all that aside, I would like to see the movie do well because I want a sequel, which I think could be really good IF Singer learns from his mistakes. Doesn't look like the domestic BO will justify a sequel but it will probably do much better overseas, esp Japan, so don't give up hope yet.
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if it's Herc's "NORMAL FUCKING ICON", the way it's presented is what's important, and it's presented as a wheelchair bound corpse in a Superman suit. Seriously, what else are we supposed to think? All we ask for is a little tact. But then again someone whose vocabulary consists mostly of variations on the word "fuck" and types all in caps won't know much about tact, eh?
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I think it has been set up.
At the end of the film (Spoiler alert) Supes throws a large chunk of land into space. This now asteroid, was made from a kryptonian crystal, and since Kitty droppd the other cyrstals on it, that asteroid has the total sum knowledge of Krypton.
Add some water (which is probably in large pools on the asteroid) some sunlight (in space) and you have the basic building blocks of....life.
More specifially....BRANIAC. -
I'm seriously debating about whether I should let my son see SR on the basis of that scene alone. That was a VERY intense and kinda horrifying--I'm not sure if it was the screaming or the brutality of it, but wow! Ehh....decisions, decisions.
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its sea monkeys
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I am currently in the midst of forever moving out of Los Angeles in favor of hometown San Francisco, and had just finished doing the second of three 6-hour drives to move all my stuff up to NorCal. My roommate, looking at his Netflix ad, says, "Two more days until Superman," to which I say that it opened today. Him: "Hey! Let's get drunk and see Superman Returns." Me: "Hey! That's a great idea!" Cut to two hours later, the combination of brandy and vodka not agreeing with my belly, I walk out of Superman Returns halfway into the film because I have vomited during the 11:30 pm showing, and feel like doing the three-mile trek back to the apartment while my roommate chills at the movie theatre...with my vomit. An hour later, I'm still not home, drunkenly wandering around Culver City, and at 2:15 a.m. he finds me in front of our apartment waiting for his key. Moral: Don't go see Superman drunk. It is kinetic. Oh, and from what I saw I was digging it, if a little put off by its overreliance on 70s nostalgia.
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No offense, but i dont let AICN talkbackers make my parental decisions ;) He's just turned 11 and I'm fairly sure he'll be alright. Granted, this will be his first mature film, but I think he'll be alright. My daughters couldnt handle that sort of thing until they were in their teens (not my decision--theirs), but my son should be just fine.
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Everyone is aware that the Superman animation is a variation on Herc
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That is all.
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that was gonna tell you i was joking about my rebuke. Feel free to say what's on your mind.
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I think as of yesterday the rating for Supes at Rotten Tomatoes was 77% fresh. It dropped a couple points today and I keep checking to see if it's worse. Someone said earlier that word of mouth could kill this movie, and sadly I believe them. I don't like being a hater. I wanted to love Supes, because I DO love Supes, and while this movie was visually stunning it was dramatically dull dull dull and slow, and yes I've informed a couple friends and coworkers of it (without giving away any spoilers when explaining the problems I had with it). Reviews for movies shouldn't have to say things like "well this was the set-up movie" or "Singer will nail it next time," because for me each film should stand alone first. Hell knows we pay to see each of 'em. I love you, Sam Raimi
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teaser trailer at joblo!!!! http://www.joblo.com/index.php?id=11901
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Seriously, if I was Harry, your ass would be outta here so fast it would make your head spin. You've had it explained and explained and explained to you. It's not a fucking corpse. It's Herc. You REFUSE to see that. Plain and simple. You only see what you want to see. And it offends you. So let me ask - if Harry removes this icon, based on YOUR say-so because YOU'RE offended, where does it stop? Tomorrow - 13 people complain that Harry is buggering Nacho Libre. Icon's gone. Day after tomorrow - PETA is pissed that Harry has an icon of himself as Kong. Day after the day after tomorrow - the family of the sniper and the victims of the Texas tower massacre is offended because the Harry ape is climbing the tower. UCLA fans are offended. Conservatives are offended. Liberals are offended. Whites are offended. Blacks are offended. Dudes named Jeff who drive minivans and live in Hoboken and clean pools are offended. Where does it end? The answer, of course, is no icons and no free speech. Why isn't Harry addressing this sad, silly, ridiculous controversy? I don't know. Maybe he considers your idiocy in the face of explanation after explanation after explanation to be a factor. He knows it'll be pointless to "talkback." You're only going to be happy when the icon is gone. Period. No matter what the explanation. Because YOU are offended. Well, it's YOU this time. It's ME tomorrow. And it's guys named Jeff who drive minivans and live in Hoboken and clean pools the day after that. You spend your life constantly addressing the "offended" and you've spent your thankless life catering to the vacuous whims of a great, drooling, braindead beast in a wheelchair. So, please tell me: when does one stop catering to the offended?
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For some reason they all like cake.
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Why is this concept so difficult for the defenders of this vile trash? It's not a lib/conservative/fanboy/whatever issue. It's simple stuff. And as long as we're championing free speech, no one can FORCE Harry to change it. Can we also not voice our disgust? Harry wants to kick out everyone who hates that animation? Fine, I suspect he'll have about 3 people left.
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Cause I want the storyline of Superman and Lois resolved--and with a happy ending. I would really like to see them get married and find out what happens with the kid. If that makes me a sappy 12-year-old girl, then so be it; someone braid my hair for me.
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That doesn't involve "yeah, we know it's Herc's icon, but WE see..." because what WE see is subjective. You get that, right? See, the fact that it's Herc's icon is objective. It can be verified. You can check that out. But what YOU see is subjective. Changes with the mood, the viewer, the time, the place, etc., etc., etc. It's VARIABLE. And seriously after YEARS at this site and all the shit I've read here, it's STUNNING to me that THIS is what offends you. THIS?!?!? And you're a fan of MR. SHOW!?!?!? So, I've got a question for you, Juggfuckler? Should Bob and David have modified there sketch comedy show for the offended? I mean, there's not even a QUESTION about whether or not THEY mean to offend. They regularly take to task CHRISTIANS, CONSERVATIVES, AMERICANS, and a whole host of others. Should their shows be removed from shelves because SOME are offended?
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was the reference to Gotham. When Superman came back there is a scene at the Daily Planet that shows the TV monitors and anchors around the world telling stories about Superman. One anchor said "Superman has been seen in many different cities around the world: Shainghi, Los Angeles, etc, etc, GOTHAM, etc. It was cool. My friends and I chuckled at that part.
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First off, no one's disrespecting the dead. You KNOW what the icon is; you just INSIST on being offended. Secondly, why should the dead be respected? I refer you to the Aaron Spelling talkback, the Bob Hope talkback, the Katherine Hepburn talkback, and numerous others. There is no respect for the dead. Certainly not on AICN. What makes the dead so special to begin with? Why should the dead get respect when the living don't? Hmmm? And even if there were respect for the dead here - that's not Chris Reeve. Period. You see Reeve. Subjectively. Objectively, it can be shown that is Herc's icon. You're a big fan of OBEJECTIVISM, aren't you, JOHNGALT06?
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Yeah, I knew you were joking and was trying to joke right back at you when I deleted the sentence that made it somewhat obvious. Yeah, most kids today see a lot more horrible images, but you're talking to the one parent who doesnt have cable and doesnt let his kids on the net. And until a semester ago, my son was homeschooled. Its been a very good experience for him, seeing as how he's been able to actually be a kid and not some drugged ADD freak who'se into death metal by the age of 8 ;)
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But not every opinion is right. When those whose opinion that the icon is disrespectful state that they KNOW it's HERC but still insist that THEY see CHRIS REEVE and that, despite the objectively proven point that it is HERC, we must STILL take it down because THEY see Chris Reeve, do we still have to grant the same weight to their opinions? The world is a globe, is it not? That can be objectively proven, no? Yet some people still possess the opinion that the world is flat (flat-worlders) should we grant THEIR opinion equal weight since they insist that the see the world as flat despite the objectively proven point?
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To hide behind another screenname is the height of pussydom, you fat bastard. And what the philosophy of Objectivism has to do with grotesque caricatures is truly beyond me.
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Now where's my gag order?
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Christopher Reeve was Superman. He spent the last 8 years of his life paralyzed in a wheelchair. You have an animation of wheelchair bound man in a Superman uniform. No, I don't know where people are getting these strange ideas....what morons...
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Before me lies the difficult task of explaining the difference between a movie website and a sketch comedy show to a retarded person. (Which could be the premise of a pretty funny sketch in and of itself!) Make sure your helmet is on tight. Ready? Here we go. People watch sketch comedy, particularly the sketch comedy of David Cross and Bob Odenkirk, to see hilarious situations that are often offensive. People go to movie websites because they like movies and want to find out which projects are in development and how other people feel about movies. I know that this is difficult for the chromosomally challenged to grasp so, here is a simple analogy. When I ejaculate on your mom, it is ok because she is expecting it. We are lovers and I know that she is looking for that sort of thing. When I ejaculate on your dad, he is quite surprised and even irritated. He and I usually just talk about movies, and here I go cumming on his face. Obviously he wants to know why I did it and what I meant by it. Get it? I didn
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Free speech, Galt. You should try reading about it in one of your Ayn Rand novels. Objectivism, the philosophy touted by your screen name, promotes, as noted on the website of the Ayn Rand institute, free speech as must includes the "freedom to offend." Check out the site (http://tinyurl.com/mnky7) for what Objectivism has to do with "grotesque caricatures." You might actually learn something about your screen name.
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I've no wish to get into a life-sapping argument either. So with that, I bid you good day, sir.
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To those of you who are offended, dont be so quick to assume that Herc and co mean what you are afraid they mean. I agree, it COULD be construed as insulting, but on the other hand, strangeco is right in that Herc's symbol is a double-amputee. To herc and co, it could be his sign of respect. To you guys, it could be a sign of offense. Since no one can possibly know FOR SURE what herc means by putting a supersuit on his symbol save for Herc himself, how about you wait for his explanation, hmm? And to those who are offended at the offended, try not to get too angry and be more patient as well, after all, a lot of the TBers that are offended are simply fans of Superman, have just seen or are about to see the movie, and are in a state of excitement. In other words, everybody calm down!
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Cause that was one of the worst movies I've seen in years. The 3-D was mildly amusing, but I was so freakin' bored by the rest that I was on the verge of walking out. I've been watching less and less movies these days, but I'm not going to even bother anymore. This is the saddest decade for movies ever (including the days before sound).
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Not anywhere near Spidey 2 (40 Mil. on a Wed. opening) numbers and behind War of the Worlds!... WB is probably craping their pants. And all the Ari Gold's of the world are smashing their good luck charms.
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For this movie in particular, and the sheer number of theaters it's in. I was hoping, honestly for maybe a little under twice that average. BTW, the Imax at Philly's Franklin Institute where I'm going to see it Saturday is only 2D, as it was built long before the 3D Imax venues that are all over the place now. What has been the general opinion about SR in Imax for those who have seen it in that way?
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with free speech, since apparently anyone voicing their disgust must be silenced immediately. I do not like the animation and I would be happy if it were removed. I cannot force Harry aka StrangeCo to take it down but I am free to say how much I hate it. How's that for freedom of speech? Decrying that someone's trying to trample on constitutional rights here is absurd and the inability to find an argument (free speech/Reeve tribute/it's just Herc) and stick it with it only points to how inane and idiotic the points you make are. And all of this is really pissing me off because it is distracting me from talking about how much SUPERMAN RETURNS sucked!
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Got it. My bad. Really. My bad. Because I'd forgotten that this site (and you posters in particular) were the web's answer to Emily Post. Really. I can see how all the last five posts have been designed to NOT be offensive. You see, you've offended me in the last five posts. Gonna ask that they be removed? Please give Harry a call. BTW, Juggfuckler, who the fuck are you to say that "[p]eople watch sketch comedy, particularly the sketch comedy of David Cross and Bob Odenkirk, to see hilarious situations that are often offensive." I watch sketch comedy to laugh, to see hilarious situations that make me laugh. Do you really watch Mr. Show to see offensive situation that are hilarious? You have the same reaction to Mr. Show that you do to the icon that offends you? You watch a show to be offended? Well, chief, based on your reaction, I come to AICN to be offended by people like you. So I like the icon. So go fuck yourself. You see, subjectivity works, doesn't it? I come here to be offended, like you watch Mr. Show to be offended. If it's okay there, it's okay here. Have a nice day being offended, you nutsack sandwich.
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I'm more of a lurker and have never posted before, but the whole animation controversy compelled me. First of all, I'm not crazy about the animation, but I don't for one minute believe that the folks at AICN intended to offend anyone or disrespect Christopher Reeve. I'd imagine its more of statement of Superman and comic characters in general being the modern day equivalent to ancient mythology. I mean seeing as how it is HERCULES and all. Maybe I'm over thinking it a little.
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that Superman had been spotted in Gotham? I could almost swear it. Hoarding in on Batman's territory? That is not kewl. Maybe they were trying to set the stage for BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN...
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I personally think it would take all kinds of bends in logic to think that the animation is meant as a sign of respect. But that's beside the point. Now, with the numerous posts from talkbackers who have been offended, it's OBVIOUS that no matter the original intent, almost everyone, even the few who actually found it funny, perceived it to be an intentionally insulting joke. Harry & Friends may have had the purest intentions (doubtful), but by now it should be apparent to them that it came off as ignorant and tasteless. The only reason to keep that thing up there now is pure childish spite. ...In response to the other issue: Can Harry continue to act like a brat and exercise his right to "free speech?" Of course. I don't think anyone is arguing that he legally can't. I'm certainly not. I'm merely suggesting that what he chooses to "say" (with that animation) is pathetic, and that he should take it down simply because it would be the decent thing to do.
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That's what I predict due to the subject and long running time (although it is funny that we're calling 20 mil in one day soft). My guess is that X3 and this will end up with about the same total grosses.
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"You only see what you want to see." Good quote! Take your own subjective advice and SHUT THE FUCK UP!! You are really turning into that guy named Jeff who drives that van. Man that is some funny shit about your mom and dad getting railed! You can really tell it fucked you up as a person. I mean why else would a retard make those statements? You have issues man and I think they are funny! I suggest that you go cry to your mom (after she gets fucked, don't ruin the mood) and tell her how you feel (Then after she tells you to "Stop being a Pussy, Pussy) Go steal your dads shotgun put it your mouth and suck it off like you suck Harrys dick.
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Yeah, you're probably right.
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Given the so-called "pent-up" demand after 19 years and the full court press of WB's ad campaign. I don't see strong legs for this one--you have to have good word-of-mouth for that and this movie ain't got 'em. No wonder Supes flies off to save people in Gotham...
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*The following is SPOILER HEAVY throughout....and rather bitter....enjoy :)*
....I quite literally HATED this movie....I can suspend disbelief with the best of them, but when a movie requires me to leave my brain at home altogether, I only resent it in the end....here's the list of plot holes, mistakes, and wtf's I put together in my head as I watched it (this might end up being the longest response ever, sorry for the rant in advance):
1) at the end of Superman 2, Superman basically apologizes for leaving and says he'll never do it again....cut to Superman Returns where....
2) he's just up and left for 5-6 years and, to add insult to it, it's because some dumb Earth scientists think they found where Krypton is/was so he goes to "check it out"....because the library of crystals at the Fortress of Solitude didn't ALREADY TELL HIM that Krypton had been dead for about 1000 years by the time he hears it (also if the journey from Krypton's destruction to Earth initially took almost 1000 years, how did he make it there and back in 5 anyway?!?!?.....oy....)
3) so when he gets back he gets his job back no problem at the Daily Planet although he just up and quit without letting anyone know 5 years earlier....and no one (Jimmy, Lois, etc.) has AGED since he's been gone (apparently Lois started working at the Planet when she was 12)....when he gets there and sees the pic of Lois, "Cyclops" (that's right he's Cyclops and that's what I'm calling James Marsden as Richard White for the rest of my diatribe) and "Superboy", he never questions or thinks that it might be his son ("I boinked her 5 years ago, the kid's 5, HEY............")....cut to the Fortress where Lex, Parker Posie, Kumar from White Castle, and random thugs are stealing the "library" of ALL KRYPTONIAN KNOWLEDGE.....which in this film is only 6 or 7 crystals instead of an entire room filled with them.....Christ and a half :( !....
4) on to the space shuttle piggy backing on the plane....so Lex breaks off a tiny shard of crystal to demonstrate it's ability to grow in water, which is apparently enough to temporarily knock out power from Metropolis to Texas, ok I'll give them that....yet when the shuttle malfunctions and ignites, first Lois' 80 pound ass should have been killed from being tossed around the cabin so freely and second why the hell does Superman heat vision off the clamps and toss the shuttle into orbit??....the thing JUST MALFUNCTIONED, so he's basically sent the astronauts to their doom....then as he's saving the plane, both wings snap off as he struggles to steer the plane into path (cuz Supes would struggle with anything.... although he's basically a god, planes fuck with him)....he IGNORES THE FLAMING WINGS and keeps going to the plane with Lois on it (sorry for whatever unfortunate cities those wings landed on)....when he lands it in the stadium, motherfucker gets a standing O from the crowd ( including a kid who wasn't even old enough or alive to remember or know him)....since he's been gone, 9/11 happened, we're at war, suffering under 2 terms of George W., and this pompous prick gets APPLAUSE?....I would've screamed "where the fuck have you been ??" and proceeded to throw a corn dog at him.... also keep in mind that we now see that Superman AND Clark have both mysteriously returned at the same time and no one even thinks about it or questions it during the film....onward....
5) Lex's Land Scheme....if you're a criminal mastermind, have discovered that Superman has the technology to grow land that would solve world hunger, over population, and possibly bring world peace, why try to discredit him to the world and make folks realize that maybe he should have stayed gone when you can grow a continent that looks like shit, will kill billions of your potential customers, throw the world economy further into ruin, and almost guarantee that you'll fail at your nefarious plot ??.....Christ and a half again !!....
6) so Lex steals Kryptonite from a museum to infuse into the magic sea monkey continent bomb, kidnaps Lois and Supes junior (who anyone with a brain knew was his kid from the get go), and goes out to launch it.... (prior to this there are pointless and supposedly "romantic" scenes of Supes spying on Lois and her family and the 2 of them flying together again like in the first film....however the scenes are really just poorly done, annoying, and Kate Bosworth portrays Lois as such an immature bitch you basically want to snatch the fake ass brown wig off her head and beat her with it )....while on the ship, and while her kid plays piano with a murderer ( I shit you not), Lois becomes Captain Nemo and magically knows the exact nautical location of the ship (why the fuck not :) ) and proceeds to write it and fax it to the Planet for help (and thank goodness for the fax machine 2 feet away from her too ;) )....when busted by the murderer and as she's about to get her head caved in by a geode, Superboy (who's finally revealed to be Superboy to the 1.5 people in the theater who didn't see THAT one coming) proceeds to kill the guy with a piano....Superman has never killed a person, but already his son's committed homicide by the age of 5 (good one junior)....the other henchman see their friend pulped and splintered into the wall and do the only logical thing: lock Lois and son in the PANTRY (pianos across the room, no problem....but he'll NEVER escape the dreaded pantry)....they then tell Lex who proceeds to say basically "we gotta get out of here".....HE JUST FOUND OUT FOR SURE HE HAD IN HIS GRASP THE SON OF HIS SWORN ENEMY AND LEAVES HIM ON THE SHIP.....alright, at this point is where I said fuck this movie, but I have to see how they flush the rest of this turd....
7) Superman gets back from "saving" Metropolis from the effects of the growing sea monkey continent (which it looked like the city was going to get hammered and sunk, but only got rumbled and tossed a bit) and lands on the 10,000 mile size chunk of Kryptonite, which has NO VISIBLE EFFECT ON HIM....on Smallville, if Clark was within 2 blocks of the stuff his skin started to go all veiny and he pissed himself and fell over....this is an entire landmass infused with the junk and he's just prancing around on it like the magnificent poof he is....so then he demands his 6 piece "library" of crystals back, Lex sissy slap pushes him down, and THAT'S when he suddenly gets a bit woozy from the completely toxic country beneath him....Lex's henchbitches proceed to give him a sad asskicking and punching session (if I had Superman on the ropes like that, I'd be pissing on him and beating him with crowbars, but I guess a few kicks and a stomach punch will do) and then Lex stabs him with a Kryptonite shank Oz-style....first off, since the fuck when does Krptonite make Superman weak enough to be stabbed and second why did they shoot the scene to look like they actually stabbed him in the ass and not the side??....anyway he tries to stand up with a chunk of death sticking out of his ass (it REALLY looked like Lex stabbed him in the ass) and proceeds to fall off one side of the kryptoglacier....also Supes never gets the crystals back as Parkie Posie dumps them later on, so all the knowledge and technology of his planet goes bye bye....moving on though....
8) so Lois convinces Cyclops (after Supes saved them from being saved poorly by Cyclops) to turn his sea plane around (thank goodness he had one handy) and go back to get Supes because she just realized that the Kryptonite continent might make him a bit cranky in the bloodstream....they get him on the plane, she pulls the shank of K out of his side, opens the door to the plane, AND THROWS IT INTO THE OCEAN....umm, yeah....I thought we "established" that Kryptonian crystals and Earth water don't really "mesh" well, but wtf anyway at this point right? ....and now we get to my favorite bullshit part of the entire film :)........
9) Supes says thanks I gotta go back, flies through the clouds toward the sun, juices up, and then uses heat vision to detach the entire kryptocontinent and LIFT IT INTO ORBIT....so the last time he stood on it he showed no signs of weakness but was still able to get his ass handed to him by a bald guy and his former prison girlfriends....now after getting stabbed with K and briefly and cinematically spinning around in the sun, he has enough strength to lift an entire chunk of poisonous crystalline earth and fly it into space?!?!?!?......*sigh*........and when he gets it there, he just girly throws it off to nowhere........a piece of Kryptonite the size of Australia........not toward the sun, not a superpunch to destroy it completely, no more heat vision to reduce it to ash and then nothing at all....just a toss....then he faints and crashes to Earth.......
....at this point I wondered why I'd even paid money to see this movie....little did I know there was still like another half hour left because....
10) SUPERMAN GOES TO THE HOSPITAL :)....suuuuuuuuuuuuuure.....earlier in the film we see a moment where a thug levels a machine gun turret at him and nothing happens to his suit....when he gets to the hospital though a few orderlies manage to rip it off of him in like 2 seconds....from here on out the rest of the film just became fuzzy as I tried to remember why I liked the original movies in the first place....
....and there's all my thoughts....if you've read through them all I applaud your courage and determination....I also applaud you for your courage and determination if you have or plan to make it through the 2 hour and 40 minutes of sludge and missed opportunities that was Superman Returns....don't get me completely wrong, parts of that movie were beautiful, certain effects were very well done....yet the fact that nearly $300 million was spent on it makes me sick to my stomach....that money could have gone to cure diseases, feed the hungry, to split between all of us to have rich happy lives and throw swanky parties with our sexy friends ;)....missed opportunities indeed....
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With your comments you have become the most uptight, whinny asshole that this site has seen since MattW. Just shut the fuck up and go give someone a suck off, and I don't care who gets it. Everyone that has posted in response to you (mainly Juggfuckler) has been completely right and extremely funny. To read the things you have posted has not only been funny as shit but also very sad because you feel the need to put your own dumbass opinions (and I mean DUMBASS!) on us (Who are right) like we give a shit what your "Law Student" Ass says. Don't you have something to study for? Shut the fuck up before you make yourself look like a bigger ass! You need to stop looking for fight and start looking for lights!
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Did anyone catch the Citizen Kane reference? The two different newspaper headlines, right? Anyway, the movie could've had all the right stuff if the special effects didn't feel like special effects in every scene. The best scene was when Superman crashed through the detached airplane wing and the score went soaring like a Spielberg movie. Other than that, it was fairly mediocre, although Brandon Routh is and EXCELLENT superman. Okay, bye.
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You should be banned again simply on general principal. And who knew that JuggFuckler swings both ways? Crazy. -- Guys, enough already. Should Harry & Co. choose to address this Herc/Reeve/Animation/Icon issue, they will. If not, there ain't a lot more you can say or do about it. So relax. Smoke your pipes.
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When I'm done fucking your mom and your sister, maybe I'll do that, you dumb fucking sack of donkey shit. I never claimed to be a law student, you illiterate cocksucking tub of gangrenous puss. Ever. That was another poster or can't you fucking read either, cumlicking syphilitic motherfucker? I'M FUCKING UPTIGHT?!?!? You're the one pissed off about a fucking ANIMATION. Knock yourselves out. Bitch. Whine. Complain. Cry. Go fuck yourselves. I got some actual work to do - your mom needs a good deep dicking and she says that the viagra ain't cutting it on your tiny little pecker any more. I SO wish that I WAS Harry so I could knock YOUR whiny little asses outta here. Otherwise, Superman Returns, decent flick the day after.
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Fixxxer, whose ironically titled post "Speaking as a fact-checker and copy editor", with its massive link to Pulitzer prize information, may itself be eligible for this year's Special Award for Advancement in Large-Format Printing from the SGIA
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Yeah, I noticed the name-drop, too. Not an allusion to a crossover I'm sure, but just a little easter egg for hardcore fans. Besides, if they ever do a Batman-Superman crossover, if it's anything but an adaptation of Dark Knight Returns, I would cry.
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the trailer for Nativity Story is up, at darkhorizons, I think. It doesn't show any actual footage, just some text, choir type music, and silhoutess of Mary and Joseph walking in the desert, and then the title and release date.
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There's alot of people out here who would like to understand your motives better.
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upsets me is that Harry & co. claim to have deep respect for Christopher Reeve, as they should. Not only did he create a screen icon but he furthered the cause of stem-cell research, a potential cure for not just his ailment but hundreds and hundreds of others. So if the folks at AICN really respected him, you'd think it might cross their minds that putting ANY figure in a wheelchair, much less one that looks like a corpse, and sticking a Superman costume on him, just MIGHT be construed as disrespectful to such a man.
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She was barely in the movie, what a huge disappointment. She is a great actress and was nice during her brief screentime. The whole time though I was thinking of Rosemary Harris in Spiderman and how they gave her a real meaty role and how great she was in it. It's a shame Eva wasn't so fortunate...
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Maybe I'm not remembering clearly, but wasn't there a Metropolis mention in 'Batman Forever'? Something like 'The circus must be halfway to Metropolis by now...'
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Gaius, your right I should be banned from everywhere. StrangeCo, yeah I got the Law Student wrong, but at least I stand up and say I was wrong (not like you). Jesus man, I don't fuck my mom, so she wouldn't know how big my dick was. I don't know how your (whore) mom raised you but fucking your mother is not cool. Unless it is you fucking your mother then it is funny! I bet after you to have sex she makes you eat your cum, and tells you suck off your dad (most likely true). Yeah the Animation sucks and I want it removed so fucking what? Isn't it time you get started on your gang bang. You remind me of the girl who fucks 10 guys in a porno and then lets them cum all over her face because she is into that kinda shit. I bet you learned it from your mom. You know in prison they fuck guys like you until your asshole can hold a boot. Then they fist your ass and yell "You Polly Prince Looking Mother Fucker" as you give suckoffs to all the skin heads. Man you would love prison!!!!!
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i mean the only thing mmissing on lex's new land was OTISVILLE!!!!!RIGHT? RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!
Part2 he needs a villian to fight cuz i'm tired of seeing him fly around and catch objects..i mean he has the most power's of any comic book hero and he just catch's people,signs,airplanes etc. POTC 2,A SCANNER DARKLY,THE FOUNTAIN,CHILDEN OF MEN WILL OWN ALL OF YOU!!!!!!!!
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...too pissed off about the "funny" wheelchair supes animation.
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Are any of you supposed movie-geeks ever happy with a film? Wah wah wah. The movie was fantastic! Forget the silly plot hole nonsense, and the complaints about the nods to Donner. From the opening credits, I was transported back to the days of Superman Peanut butter and red and blue Underroos. If he had not included these things, people would be bitching about how they threw out all their memories, and bastardized their childhood. What a bunch of babies. Seriously, there is nothing that could have been done to make this the perfect movie. No matter which direction Singer went, someone would be whining, right now.
Also, I am amazed at the Kate bashing, above. It is kinda funny to see some pathetic fanboys sit around and trash a woman whose excrement they would happily devour just to have her say, "hello," to them.
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Seriously, WTF? You have a movie to watch! Isn't that good enough, that it exists at all? Story, character arcs, wit, excitement? Those are just bonuses, you cannot expect that. I mean, this movie cost $250 million...you want a script too? It's never enough for you people
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and youre calling THESE PEOPLE babies?
devouring a womans excrement!? gad damm!ohmy god dude, you need to keep that stuff to yourself. -
Thank you Brian Singer and co...
I have been a fan of superman, since I used to watch the original movies on t.v with my older bro and we'd act out the scenes with that lame solar-man guy...back when they would play superman 3 and 4 all the time on tv...I loved the comics and the movies, but as I grew older saw the flaws in each. especially 3 adn 4....oy...
But for the last ten years, I feared the return of Superman, amongst rumors of Tim Burton and Nick Cage??? but my mind was put to rest when I heard that Singer would be directing, I KNEW this movie would be The Superman I grew up with, but at the same time with fresh new visuals and a more grounded feel.
I LOVED the homages to the past, none of it was too much...it was all a great tip of the hat to the original...but with new eyes,new aspects..this is not a retread as much as it is a refresher, and none of it failed to impress me, I was in awe from the opening credits until the end. Yes there will always be things to nit pick, instead of that , I will focus on what I thought was wonderful...
Visuals aside, Luthor was a bad-ass, the situations he had were naturally funny, but he wasn't aiming for laughs, he was an actual threat.
The henchmen were great, just what henchmen should be, quiet and ready to fuck someone up at any moment...
One thing I loved about this movie was that even when Clark was on screen instead of Superman, I never noticed, I was always aware that he was superman ,hiding out as Clark, using his super hearing or vision to keep tabs on what was going on...and I loved it, I never felt at anytime that there wasn't enough Superman in it , or that it was taking too long to get to an action scene or anything, I loved and soaked up everyminute of this movie...
And him having a child, was just great, the possibilities of this are amazing, and with Singer in charge, I don't think we have to worry about superboy and dad in the next one, I believe like with X2, Supermanreturnsagain, will be bigger and badder and bolder...and start to carve a new path for Superman..and his legacy...
NOW the Visuals...holy shit, breathtaking, amazing ,beautiful...just far beyond what I thought I expected..every single time, not one moment was I pulled out of the movie saying "that looked weird" nothing, you know how in some Comic movies, there is that one shot where they just didn't have enough time or money to do it right but they left it in anyway?? none of that here...
There is a ton of good in this movie...I will be watching this movie quite a few times over the next few weeks,and will be sad when it is not on the big screen...I;ll have to settle for the dvd and my big screen..but I 'll miss the theatre for sure.... -
So many of the people bashing SR are the one's claiming it would suck from the beginning. So no duh they didn't like it. I just hope the movie does well enough for a sequel. Because all I know is when I saw it at 10pm on tuesday it was the most fun I've had in the movies for a while. The audience was great cheering and everything. My only complaint is there was no huge climax scene between Supes and Lex, and after that gang bang Supes recieved I was hoping he'd kick the henchmen's asses at least but oh well. I am already thinking if they even make another one Lex will capture the kid and clone Superman and then set up the third film for Brainiac which would be sweet.
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...don't listen to Opie and Anthony; Jimmy Norton just wondered if real people could have super-strength, would they be strong enough to break out of stirrups during a horse accident??? Hilarious!
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to do well at BO. But that doesn't change the fact that this movie was an enormous disappointment. If there is to be a sequel, Singer and Co. must learn from mistakes and must hear the shit from the so-called haters so the next one will be something special instead of this snooze-fest.
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The movie was magical. And isn't that what Superman should be? The audience I was with was cheering and appluading and loving every second of it, from the quiet moments to the 'splosions. Singer done good.
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and cheering throughout this is just a stone-faced liar and should really say some Haily Marys before they go to bed. Your theater was not cheering--they may not have been snoring but they definitely WEREN'T cheering.
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it is so good to know that irony and humor are not lost on you.
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StrangeCo, to respond to your post from awhile back, I've been reading AICN for a little over 2 years (and 5 minutes), and am well aware that the icon is Herc's normal icon. You continually miss the point of every argument thrown your way. Talk about subjective attention. The point is that it was a poor, poor choice to throw a Superman costume on Herc's normal icon. As anchorite so correctly pointed out, they could have thrown a Superman costume on any of the AICN staff members or their icons. Why pick the guy in the wheelchair. Green alien or not, obviously many people have picked up the clear reference. AICN silence on this subject leads me to further believe that this was meant for no other purpose than a sick joke, something not meant to honor the memory of Reeve, but to poke fun at it. The message has not been received as they had anticipated. Once again, this is hardly an issue of free speech. This is an issue of moral decency. Even smarmy politicians who regularly step all over their constituents manage to apologize when they do something that so clearly offends those that they serve. True, AICN is not a political institution, but it still serves the movie community. It is still responsible for the imagery it puts on its pages, and it still has an obligation to address those things which offend its user base. If a service industry or retail store put up a massive sign over its main doors depicting some vulgar, awful imagery that offended its customer base, nobody would be sitting here arguing about free speech and the right of Wal-Mart to post such things. Instead we would be talking about the lack of respect it has shown the community and its supporters. The same principle applies here.
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because people were clapping in my audience. {Sigh} This is why talkbacks are pointless. And...um...you're gay.....and your mom's gay too. So there.
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not through out the entire movie, but at all the right places...when he catches the plane, when he gets shot in the eye...when he is on tv...and most importantly at the end...the people in my theater loved this movie...
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That does seem like a decent jumping off point for a second film, but I do find it kind of remarkable that even among the people that liked this movie a great many had quite a few problems with it and those problems really aren't going to disappear that easily (I imagine the kid's going to be there and Kate Bosworth is going to return. For those of you who love it, you have to admit, love it or had it, majority thinks Kate was a mistake) Anyway, as I said, I am among those disappointed by this film and just don't think it works. Could have, but didn't. But it does have moments and clearly some fans. The question of box office is interesting. Remember, this is the most expensive movie ever made. Or at least one of them. 220/240 million dollars (Not to be a jerk, but I still don't see where the money went, yes, it looked great, but most movies "look" great, Spacey was the biggest star, there were a couple giant effects sequences, but really are they that expensive? I thought they shot in Austrailia for cost, they also shot digitally, I imagine that process was cheaper, but if it wasn't, why shoot digitally?) Point is, if that's what they're admitting to, tack at least another fifty on to that, plus P&A - So you're looking at something that needs to be one of the biggest hits in the history of cinema to even break even. Maybe it will - but I suspect Pirates is actually a good movie, and when that comes out, Superman is going to dip at least fifty percent. You'll have a sense of whether or not this thing is going to get a sequel a week from now. But again, I don't care enough after this first movie to even want a sequel. Too much baggage. Superman is a great chracter, but Superman the movie (1978) is a great film. They may have adapted the comic book in Returns to a degree, but more and more it's apparent that this was more an attempt at a remake of a great film than an adaptation of a comic book. (Yes, hard to have one without the other, but the music is from the movie, the titles are from the movie -- I'm not sure, but how much dialogue was pulled from the comic books? quite a lot of dialogue and attitude was pulled from the movie. Point is, you don't remake great films. You can use a comic book as a source all you like. When Burton did Batman, he didn't remake the Adam West Version, and while I think Nolan owes some credit to Burton's Batman - I still think he and Bale gave us something pretty damn special. The more I watch it the more I love it. Maybe I'll warm to Supe when it hits cable, but right now the excitement I have about the Batman franchise is equal to the disappointment I have about Superman. They tried, and I just don't think it worked. Basically it's a remake of the original first film, but picks up where the second left off and also kind of entirely new. Trying to be all three it's just a mess! It seems like there are quite a few people that liked Returns. But there's a substantial amount of disappointed - deeply disappointed people. There's a lot of criticism deep down in the positive reviews ("no movie is perfect / Kate Bosworth sucked but everything else was genius / The Kid sucked but everything else was genius / This sucked and that sucked but I loved it anyway) That's fine, hell I do it too - You want to like something so bad and you kind of soften up a little. Like your kid missed the winning shot in the championship game. You still love him, but he messed up. I still love Superman, but this movie was a mess. But what I don't get is this attitude of "hip hip hooray, now that this one is over with, they can get to making an original thing / a cool movie / a better thing / a sequel. This was okay but the sequel will be great!" Huh? Really? Why not kick ass out of the gate? Begins is going to have a great sequel, and possibly better than the first - But Batman kicked ass out of the gate. When has a great sequel come from a mediocre movie? Wrath of Kahn? Anything else? Sequels usually are slightly worse. On occasion they're better, but most of the time (and don't pipe in with Empire and T2 and Toy Story 2 and the many great sequels ... The great sequels were sequels to GREAT movies. This wasn't a GREAT movie. When has there ever been a great sequel to a mish moshed mediocre movie? Doesn't usually happen. But my point is twenty years and 300 million dollars for a test drive, a practice swing? I don't think so. If you like this take, more than likely, this is your Superman, and probably the best it's going to get for you. And if you're cool with that. Enjoy. Again, I wish I felt the same way. If I may be purely cynical for just a moment - It took Sony and Raimi hitting a home run to get Warners off their ass to finally get this thing together. I believe they were motivated more by the dollar than by the prospect of making a classic franchise. Yeah, it's a business and all the studios want to make money - but Christ, I'm sure there are more than a couple folks on this board that know some folks that work over at TWX. What do you think? If, Singer indeed had this longer cut that was comprimised by the studio, that's a shame. While this movie was too long, maybe the three hour version may have felt shorter ... and maybe Superman would have had more of a presence, and maybe it wouldn't have been such a disappointment. Who knows if there's a better cut of this thing, but I know what I saw seemed slapped together and oddly paced and I'll be interested to see if this pulls down enough money to generate a sequel.
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I guess the average movie goer doesn't care that a 747 can't carry a shuttle or the fact that there's a pool table on a boat. They wisely leave caring about that to the snarling fanboys.
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had a better opening day than superman.
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were sitting in the front row bowing after the movie was over. This movie is simply not capable of illiciting an emotional reaction from a large group of people. One or two claps scattered, I can see that. But no one beyond Superman fanboys are going to "love" this movie and they're just aren't enough of them to go around.
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Well, gosh, I don't agree with that one bit. Guess I should have brought my "Emotion Illliciting" meter with me so I could back up my opinions with iron clad scientific eveidence like you have....oh wait.
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two fans came in to see a film they are fucking aching for....they had a good time and enjoyed themselves and it annoyed you because you are just so jaded and cool? what that tells me is you are a fucking loser to interested in other people and should worry about his own miserable self.
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At the end, at the plane sequence, I think there was also a reaction to the bullet in the eye. They also cheered the spidey teaser. Is that really so hard to believe? Like people would lie, make that up?
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When I think cheer I think like a football stadium where someone gets first down or something. People clapped at the end credits at mine, I don't really consider that cheering.
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Any sort of audience reaction (be it cheering, appluading, laughing, etc.) does not back up any enraged fanboy rants. So we must be liars. I guess all audience members should be issued a jaded geek so they can be told that they're shouldn't be enjoying a Superman movie.
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I forgot about that.
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Just got back. Thought it was really, really dull. Other than saving the plane he doesn't really do anything cool, and he's almost like a side-character in the movie. Should have called it "Lois & Richard: the Movie"
The way his powers worked around the Kryptonite didn't make sense; Lois letting Richard think the kid was his didn't make sense (just how soon after Superman did she fuck this guy?) And now there's Superman Jr.? It looked beautiful, but that's it. And the last twenty minutes, with Superman in 'critical condition' were groan-inducing. -
im just laughing from the one who was on here saying "hate to call you out, but Superman is going to outdraw TITANIC", and here it is, a $300M opens at $21M, with bad word of mouth and POTC2 looming. this has all the signs of a possible bust; this weekend is do or die. it has to break a 100 M by monday to save face..I'm guessing monday total of $91M domestic.
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Sorry to say it but the "negative" things that have been said about this film on this site are really kind of weak. It comes off as fan boy moaning. Not only is this film beautiful on alot of levels, we were spared atleast two versions that would have sucked tremendously (Ratner,McG) not to mention the once imagined Tim Burton,no cape no flying nightmare. Liking the movie or not is a matter of opinion and we all have one or two,which I respect and would never try to sway someone to change on my part. But to say that this movie "did not work on any level" well thats just wrong. It's going to make huge money and there will be more so I guess all we can hope for is not another X3. I mean come on ,every movie has flaws, have you rewatched Batman recently? That was supposed top be the benchmark for a while and it had the Joker out of make up more than in while running around playing Prince songs on a boombox with guys in fedoras and sun glasses dancing behind him. Spiderman was a record breaking hell of a movie that i still love, but the Green Goblin looked like a Power Ranger and alot of people on this site agree. Bottom line, as a comic bool purist and someone who really liked Superman but wasn't 100% thrilled with even the first two Donner films which i rewatched before Tuesday night, I feel like Superman Returns was a great movie . Routh is the new Superman, Spacey is the best Luthor to date,the cinematograpghy was breath taking and I will be waiting in high hopes for a sequel. Don't be so nit picky ,lifes to short. If you want to be disapointed rent the Hulk.
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Face it - the movie is made by a fag and the only people who will like it are sappy chicks and other fags. The big climatic scene is superman struggling to throw a big rock into space. Just horrible horrible writing and direction. A few nods to the original was a good idea, but this was really nothing more than a slightly re-imagined remake with the inclusion of a bastard child. These ass-fuckers got paid fucking millions for this horrific piece of tripe. Instead of spending so much time trying to work in little ditties like clark saying "Swell" (that was probably a $100,000 bonus for some writer), they couldn't come up with a better plot. Jesus, and didn't anyone recognize what a horrible backlash that this is going to make in the american public with having lois a single mom and superman being a deadbeat dad? What the fuck are these assholes thinking?
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You hit the nail on the head there. As for this "bad word of mouth" this movie supposedly has, it still has a very good rating at Rottentomatoes, the audience I was with loved it, and the trash-talking here seems to be reserved jaded fanboys. Those worried about the box office take should keep in mind that this movie opened on a Wednesday (with 21 mil, which isn't anything to shake a stick at really) when there were still lots of promotional materials out there advertising a Friday release. The movie was funny, beautiful to look at, spectacular, moving, and best of all it DEVELOPED ITS CHARACTERS (hence a long running length . . . what, you wanted a 90 minute Supes with characters on the level of X3?). Quit nitpicking and learn how to enjoy a movie.
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....you can include Massawrym among those people who claimed this movie was going to do Titanic-like numbers at the B.O. Actually his quote was that this movie was going to do Spiderman-like business (confirm on the talkback of his review of themovie, wherein he also bet me that this would be so; I wish I took that bet now), which is kind of funny because Spidey opened on a Wednesday too and did, oh, just a little over $40 million on its first day. So Supes has some catching up to do. And it doesn't look good seeing as POTC2 (now also officially known as POTC2: Kryptonite) is opening next week and the word-of-mouth that this movie is receiving is ranging from lukewarm to toxic. After all that money that WB poured into marketing the crap out of this movie and putting Routh's face on everything from lunchboxes to lawnmowers. What a waste.....And as for fanboys still trying to hype this movie like its the next coming of citizen Kane, you all just look silly now. If those plotholes that geekdom was complaining about weren't enough to sink this movie, then Singer's uninspired paceless directing will!
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His laser vision comes out as just two little smoke rings. Less posting, more movie seeing!
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....which as we all know is the be-all and end-all of quality movie reviews. Spiderman also opened on a Wednesday and did double the business that this turd did and this was supposed to be the next coming of Titanic. Keep kidding yourselves Singer fanboys.......
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Take that fucking animation down! It's not appropriate, cute, or clever scumfuck!
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Just curious. What is your investment in the failure of this movie? If you really think that this movie didn't live up to the hype, then you must really want a "kick-ass" sequel, right? I mean, come on, they have to up-the-ante next time. The problem is this. . .: If you keep bashing the hell out of it, and succeed in keeping people away, then basically you destroy any chance of a future sequal. If it bombs, they may not make any more. So. . . do you want to have to wait ten more years for a sequel? Do you hate all blockbusters, or just hate Superman? Maybe you are just angry at God and the Republicans, I don't know. But I sure hope that people flock to this movie, and it has all the success in the world. I love summer blockbusters, and really want them to hit the next one out of the park.
I repeat, I liked this movie. I want a sequel. -
Could Akiva (*Batman & Robin*) Goldsman have written a worse screenplay for Superman than this?
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The Matrix:Reloaded initially got 74% tomato reading - and initially everyone was like talkin about how cool it was until the opening hype died down. I think the same will happen for this. Reloaded was an awfull stupid plot hole filled movie that's only saving grace was some good effects but shity shitty story line. I remember everyone thought it was so fucking cool at first but you would never hear somebody say that about it today.
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I was at a packed audience and no one was clapping, laughing or seeming to care one way or the other over this movie. Despite that, it'll end up a great success that'll demand a sequel, because so many people are going to this without knowing what they're getting themselves into. When that sequel bombs, there will be some excuse on how it was raining in some part of the country. ....... I thought the 78' movie was great as a kid, but it's cheesy to me now. I don't know why people refer to it as a classic. I also wasn't expecting much from Returns, but I usually find myself enjoying movies when I have low expectations. This ended up being both worse than my expectations and crappier than the original. Routh is simply a terrible actor. It boggles my mind that they found a worse actor than Reeve, but they managed it. It's like they propped up a corpse with animatronics or something. ......... I better not see any Smallville bashers on this talkback. The cheesiest episodes had more going on than this POS movie. Lex Luthor seems like a genius, not a buffoon. You actually get a sense on Clark's values, whereas I didn't know what his deal was in this movie. I'd cut off a pinky finger to sleep with Lana, whereas I wouldn't give Bosworth a second glance walking down the street. Even the action sequences are typically more thrilling. This stupid movie was just about Supes lifting things (and lifting a continent is too over the top to even care about). Compare that with leaping onto an ICBM and climbing it into space on Smallville. A true lose-my-shit moment. Apparently Routh's Supes can lift a continent of kryptonite, but struggles in stopping an airplane. Ugh!
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You want to know what our motivation is to wish that this film tanks at the box office? Hmm...hasn't it already been said before? We want a reboot, not a rehash of the Donner films. A movie where Lex Luthor's characterization isn't that of a dumbass. Where there's no sharkjumping plot points like adding a kid to the mix. Where Lois Lane looks old enough not to have been underage when she got pregnant. Where Lois didn't sucker some guy right after Supes left the scene to pretend to be Big Daddy. Where Lois is more attractive than her television counterparts. Where Superman's trunks aren't lowcut specifically to cater to Singer's demographics. Any more questions?
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"and the trash-talking here seems to be reserved jaded fanboys. " I'm personally an atheist, but I can not WAIT for the christian fundamentalists to get hold of this film and fucking teat it to fucking shreds. Yeah, we'll see how well it does on the box-office once they spend their time trashing how much of a whore Lois Lane is, and that if Superman stands for "Truth" then why does he allow that cunt to pass off to Richard that the child is his.
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also....Lex's plan wasn't the greatest. Not sure about the "kid" angle. An anticlimatic ending. But, awesome effects, beautifully shot. An above average good summer film. I dug all the Superman rescue and action shots. A good start to a new series of films. Lets leave Luthor out of the next one, please?
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and the whole antichrist pagan "we dont need a savior" thing.. this films' real mission is to weaken/decentralize western cultural supremacy in favor of NWO/globalism..
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As for your quote of "Spacey the best Luthor to date" you must be confusing Spacey for Clancy Brown (animated Lex) or Michael Rosenbaum (Smallville Lex) because in no way, shape, or form does Spacey outdo either of them.
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add John Shea to that list too ahead of Spacey.
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at least to me
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I'm sure these have been mentioned but some of these REALLY bugged me: 1) No way you can lift a small continent up from a single point like Superman. That's like trying to pick up a watermelon with the head of the pin. Superman would just tunnel right through it. Really, the same goes for the airplane. 2) Traveling to Krypon. It seems a plot contrivance that Superman possesses a "faster than light ship" (yet that doesn't seem to have a landing gear) that can travel hundreds of light years with full life support, oxygen, food, bathroom, etc... You'd think that this would be technology that Superman would be willing to share with us lowly humans. For that matter, Lex Luthor was right. Superman possesses all this technology but would rather waste time saving falling individuals while thousands die of disease, starvation, war, etc... 3) The lack of security at the Fortress of Solitude. OK, the FofS possesses fabulous alien technology that can pretty much destroy the planet. In fact, crystals that can MAKE continents sitting right out there in the open. YET.... Superman has no security what-so-ever AND he flies off for 5 years KNOWING that the greatest criminal mastermind in the world KNOWS ITS LOCATION!
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I don't want the movie to fail. I don't wish anything bad on the filmmakers. But this is a dull movie with plastic figures, little action, and a ridiculous subplot with a kid that calls into question the honesty and values of both Lois and Superman-- being as she hooked up with Richard right after Supes and let him think the kid was his-- I know that in Superman 2 he gave her the amnesia kiss, but is the general audience really supposed to be familiar enough with Superman 2 to a) connect this movie to that one, and b)fill in the blanks. The target audience wasn't even born when Superman 2 came out! I guarantee that the majority of the audience is just confused about the kid and why Lois and Supes make the choice with him that they do. Creepy scene of Superman stalking Lois's family, too. And just to judge by the audience I saw it with, nobody was moved to any kind of reaction by anything that happened on the screen. Little kids next to me were yawning, and it was the matinee. It's getting bad reviews for very real reasons. It LOOKS gorgeous, but that's it. This will not do 250 domestic; there's just no way. Nobody that I saw came out of the theatre excited or even particularly satisfied looking. The more time passes, the more this is going to be seen as a plodding, dull expanse of two and half hours.
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Lex's plan was brilliant and still in the process. While he was sitting there with his peeps counting money, the land mass was still growing. If it was already full size then most of america would have been underwater already. Lex never said the crystals would grow a paradise like condition, he just stated that it would be land. land he would own.
The reason superman was able to pick up this land mass was because he cut around it and lifted up enough rock before the island formed. as you can see when he finally takes it in space , the kryptonite begins to grow out.
As for Superman not admitting he has a son, what do you expect the guy to do. settle down and start a family? The guy couldnt even come to tell him who he really was, so he left it to lois lane to make that decision. Of course its a questionable decision but who ever said the guy was jesus? Only those nuts who seem to find christian symbolism in every single fucken movie. -
So it's okay for Lois to let Richard think this kid is his?
So it's okay for Superman to chuck that whole 'truth' part out of his creed?
And how soon after Superman did Lois fuck this Richard guy? Not that there's anything wrong with moving on, but she couldn't have known Superman was really gone until some time had passed, because he never said goodbye. But this is all in character, I guess? It's a fucking stupid contrivance and it's mildly baffling to a general audience. The movie was about Lois and her fiancee Richard, with an occasional appearance by Superman, who seems to have less lines than any other character in his movie. -
sure Pirates comes out next week, and then . . . what? When's the next big summer spectacle? When's the next tentpole release? Wait . . . there isn't one! We've got comedies galore and Lady in the Water a ways off yet. So Supes and Pirates will be sitting atop the box office for a good long time, methinks. Also this isn't the first time someone has suggested a sequel without Luthor, but simongarth, Superman without Luthor is not a Superman a want to see, nor should it be one that any fan of the comics should be happy about! Spacey knocked it the hell out the park. 'Nuff said.
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Go ahead and flame me for this one but I really did.
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Superman was mediocre.
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Now, did that trample on anyone's 1st amendment rights? Are we one step closer to V FOR VENDETTA-style facism now? Seriously, good to remove, I'm sure it wasn't meant to be so unbelievably awful but it still was. And LilOgre, nothing wrong with loving BATMAN BEGINS---it is a great, great (great) movie.
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YEAH!
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Its an international film, gentleman, and has mostly positive reviews. It will earn at least half a billion dollars worldwide before the dvds are even out. You mark my words.
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It's just not going to be the blockbuster WB needs it to be, considering its huge budget and expensive marketing campaign. But like I said, it will do well enough overseas to put them in the black but at this point, sequel looks unlikely. And POTC will take a huge bite out of it. Without Pirates, Supes could've maybe gone up to $300 mil, MAYBE...but now it will be around only $200 mil, while Disney sits back and count their dollars...as POTC will take in at least $400 mil, if not more.
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Didn't expect much coming into it, came out very satisfied. My only gripe was that the score wasn't epic enough.
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Makes me laugh when I watch the destruction of man kind on the news. Superman was flawed yes but still very good much better than any movie I've seen this summer so far. X3 was horrible and anyone who says differently works for Fox don't be tricked. You ask any regular person not an online movie geek and they general think the movie is funny for all the bad reasons. When I saw X3 people laughed, at Storms dialogue the crowd laughed at "You love her..." and then all hissed at the end of the film. In Superman everyone cheered and applauded at the end, so there is a difference. But who cares this summer sucks as a whole anyway can't wait for 07!!!
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I haven't seen Superman Returns, and I really don't know the details about the plane/shuttle scene that everyone is criticizing. However, I gather people's point of contention is that it's impossible for a 747 to fly with a space shuttle strapped to its back. Yeah, it sounds kind of silly to me too. But literally, about an hour ago, I was reading my nephew his "Monster Machines" book. And lo and behold, page 11 features a photo of "a specially adapted 747" which "is used to transport the American Space Shuttle Orbiter back to its launch site in Florida. The 747's fuselage is strengthened so that it can carry the Orbiter. The Orbiter rides on three supports on the plane's back. In midflight, the spacecraft can detach itself from the 747 and glide back to ground or it can land still positioned above the 747." So I guess such a thing is possible. Mind you, I have no idea if the scene itself comes across as silly in the movie, but at least there seems to be a real-life precedent.
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It was kind of the icing on the cake as it were. Kind of reminiscent of the film's treatment of the character, generally speaking.
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There were a few very pleasing sequences. However, the majority of the film was alternately mean-spirited and odd.
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in the midst of this 9/11 anti-american climate? where, Europe? what are you smoking? the only person of color in the movie is Kumar, he's only there to symbolically kick Supes(US imperialism) from America's stereotypical Arab=badguy POV, which is how that will play over there, believe me. you'll see.
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I opened this can of worms, it was my fault. What is presented in the movie is not realistic but it is believable. A 747 (much lighter than 777) was used to piggyback an empty hull of a shuttle by NASA. In the movie, its a 777 hauling up a fully loaded shuttle with astronauts, fuel, the works...so why what happens in SR is not really possible, that doesn't really matter. It's vaguely similar to what has been done in real life and that's good enough. No, I'm afraid that's the least of SR's problems...
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that some people are using up all these colorful adjectives to describe their hatred for this film. Tell me, what words will you use for films like Ultraviolet or fantastic four? I mean give me a break and give credit where credit is due, nobody is saying superman is the perfect , but its a good film. what were you honestly expecting? and if you were expecting anything just stop and think for a moment how close this film came to being in the hands of MCG or some other director who doesnt give a shit who superman is.
I would like to make a point on another matter. I feel any critic who gives away a spoiler as big as superman having a kid, a moment in the film, is an ass. A job as a reviewer is to review, not to simply tell people everything that happened and let them pick out the good parts. It's your job to work around the story while still pointing out the positives and negatives while giving your opinion and letting people decide for themselves. Too many critics on this board give spoilers, and it pisses me off. A spoiler warning is not enough, -
Saying Superman has a kid is a spoiler? That is laughable. The only people too stupid to realize that the kid belongs to Kal-El are the characters in the movie. And no this movie is not the worst movie ever made, it isn't even terrible...just monumentally disappointing.
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"Superman Returns is the greatest superhero movie of
all time. Don't waste time , go now. Go out , buy tickets
for superman returns and watch it.
SuperMan - Good
Flying - Very Good
Action - Very Very Good!
Acting - Superb!
Brandon Routh - I'm not gay or anything , but damn he was awesome
Lex Luthor - The best Lex Ever
Length of film - A little long
OverAll - Stop reading, go now."-------------uh, based on the depth of that review, i'll go with the "hating ass reviewers" from aicn.. -
I really saw this as a labour of love, and it was a great film. All the nitpickers crack me up. This movie had heart.
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Remember, King Kong earned nearly 600 million, and its running time was thirty minutes longer and critical/fan reaction a little bit harsher. King Kong costed nearly 300 million after marketing while Superman Returns costed around 225 after marketing. This film's bar is set lower (no matter what the AICN hype said) than King Kong and has a much better chance of being profitable. No, I'm not overhyping this, I'm just saying that this movie is almost assuredly going to do better than half a billion.
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That was the most succinct and accurate judgement of this movie I've read throughout this entire thread. The movie did indeed have heart.
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I did not hate the movie, but was disappointed. Quite honestly, after seeing the most kick ass trailer for Spider-man 3 (some people actually clapped after the trailer) this movie was set up to be a disappointment and did not have a prayer.
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My prediction is that worldwide BO will top out of $600-$700 million easy.
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I know you've been less than enthused about this film, so I dont know if you're pulling my leg or being serious.
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Believe it or not, folks, none of us were trying to bust Galt's balls about the shuttle--it wasnt a geek argument. Galt merely brought that up so as to prove a point about audience reactions varying from location to location. Where Galt lives, there are a lot of pilots, so they reacted differently than a lot of other people. His knowledge reguarding the piggybacking intrigued me, so he and I had a little back and forth chat about 777s and C-17s. There was no fanboy arguing or nitpicking. I just thought I'd clarify the whole issue.
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But who knows? I do have a very strong inclination that it will do good business in Japan, where Americana sells in spades and do well (at least as well as in US) throughout world. I am not rooting against BO success (despite my disappointment with the movie) but there is something important to keep in mind....studios only keep about 70% of US ticket sale revenue and even less for international. SUPERMAN RETURNS needs to make alot of money before it becomes a good ROI. But the possibility is there...all I say is that IF THERE IS A SEQUEL, Singer PLEASE take your time in screenwriting phase, which was the deathknell of SR...
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how this movie had heart. Because I did not see it or feel it. There was NO romance. With the exception, perhaps of Richard's love for Lois and her kid. The rest of it was dead as a doornail.
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but I reeeaallly want a sequel--i'm actually dying to find out what happens to Superman and Lois's relationship, to say nothing of the father/son relationship. That's my biggest gripe with this movie--it basically left on a cliff hanger, which takes a lot of balls, seeing as how there is no way to tell if there will be a sequel. Same damn thing happened to me with Ralph Bakshi's LOTR and I was pissed for nearly 20 years!
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Surely, if nothing else Bryan Singer loves SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE and wanted to honor it. What the movie lacks is soul and originality and invention and cleverness and fun.
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You are no better than Harry or all the other retards who simply accept the major plot holes and piss poor interpretation of this character.
I am sick of hearing how much you all think this is a great Superman story when it's a remake that has no respect for the characters they are trying to portray or the history of those characters.
Lois is weak, and Superman has joined the ranks of deat beat dads everywhere, but that's not why you're a Moron Herc, it's because of your response to why the kid didn't get sick. If the kid has powers it means he's either a Metahuman, or he has Kryptonian DNA, and if he has even a spec of Kryptonian DNA in his genetic make-up then the Kryptonite should have made the little bastard sick.
You know aside from Moriarty, whose review was probably the most honest, most of the folks in charge of this site appear to have been bought off or have no idea how disrespectful films like this are to their source material. -
I'm a grown man, tough as shiat, but just hearing the opening theme brought a lump to my throat that didn't go away for most of the film. The airplane rescue and the crowds response almost led to tears outright. The nod to the camera at the end of the film? Perfect!! Sure it had a few problems but so did the first two (3 and 4 don't exist to me). The last few weeks of my life have been some of the hardest I have faced in 32 years but today, for a few hours, I was 9 years old again and for that I am grateful.
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Because of the way Superman was depicted. His super human determination and courage were in full flair. I loved the reaction shots of the crowds, the admiration, awe, and joy they showed for their hero. Remember the scene at the ballgame, after Superman is revealed to the onlooking crowd? That scene resonated with me very deeply. Maybe its cause I really like Superman and all the ideals and myths that come with him, but this movie really did strike a chord with me. I'm not saying my opinion is the end all be all, mind you, but I really was strongly affected by the film, as childish as that sounds.
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I've always wondered, and maybe somebody who really know the character can answer this, but how does Superman/Clark get a haircut, or shave, or cut his nails?
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Guys, it's fucking called "Superman RETURNS" we knew that it was going to be a movie about him coming back. Not about those missing 5 years. Suspend some fucking disbelief, it's a movie. Besides, they can wait and think of something cool and introduce it in sequels. Maybe Supes pissed off Zod during those five years. Would make way for some interesting layering.
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I felt much the same as you, believe it or not. For me, the scene that actually brought some tears to my eyes, was the "rodney King" scene. That was so sad, so horrifying, and yet you saw Superman KEEP GOING.
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Just because the kid calls him dad does not mean that Richard thought he was so...It was not addressed in the film, either way, but one simple scenario is that He and Lois fell in love either while she was pregnant or after she had the baby. If he really loved her, and in the movie you see that he does, he would have wanted to raise the child as his own...this happens all the time in real life...so, no Lois isn't a whore, no, she didn't jump in bed with some guy right after she "banged" superman, that is just you guys not thinking clearly.
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Here's how it should've went: A player hits a high fly ball. Other players make their way around the diamond. The guy on third is about to slide into home when BOOM...everyone's attention is up in the sky at the crashing plane. Superman safely lets the plane slide across homeplate. Umpire: "Safe!" Cue the thunderous applause.
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Superman was great. What is all this nitpicking on the website? My only gripe is the colors were kind of dull, we need some colorful cosmic braniac shit. Anyways the videogame has a better idea of what theatrics should appear in the next film. SPOILER MUFUKAS!I loved superman lifting the kryptonite continent and hurling it into space! That should be a good signal for braniacs ship right? I loved the gotham reference! I liked the superboy angle, yea i said it, superman has a clone in the comics right? I really enjoyed spacey, he was great as lex. The special effects were sweet, and when the spaceship touched down in the middle of the ballgame, thats how superman should make an entrance! The score was great, and brandon routh really does a good embodiement of christopher reeve.
Please make the next one have some cosmic cataclysmic braniac insanity -
Yeah, I was rather surprised that people thought that Richard believed Jason was his son. Then again, I'm in something of a similar situation myself, so maybe it was easier for me to relate to Richard being a father despite never fathering Jason.
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My two daughters and son are not actually my kids; they're my step kids. However, I've practically been my son's father all his life (his real father, sadly, has very, VERY little to do with him). My two eldest call me by my first name and sometimes Dad, while my youngest just calles me Dad. Either way, I love them all and try to be the best father, the best man I can be. Does that shed any light on Richard's relationship with Jason?
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I dont think any of us is saying that the movie is perfect; we are all saying that the movie has some inconsistencies and a rather weak climax. That said, the movie has some very well-rounded character relationships, good dialogue, good acting, and awsome special effects. Therefore, most of us are saying the movie is somewhere between B+ and A-. I'm a bit more forgiving when it comes to movies, so I give it a solid A. That's just my perspective, however.
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If I said I wasn't craving me some darkseid action in future films. Superman could really use a titanic fight.
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by the way, please make a return of the dark knight film.....dream!
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Could you please recall it for me? Not trying to be a smartass, I genuinely do not recall any good lines from the movie...
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moment was earned all the way. I even had a glimmer of hope when Lois and Superman looked at one another again for the first time after 5 years. But then it sucked the life out of the character and ALL of his relationships. It's the whole "he's an alien" theme, which I think is ultimately destructive to the character if focused upon too much. If by heart, you mean a faithful aping of the Donner films, I can't fault that, but I was more talking about the emotional connection between the characters. There was none. I mean, remember when Lois looks at him for the first time in the Donner film? She can't believe this guy is for real, and you believe she believes that. There is none of that in this film. Not even a moment of admiration. And frankly, it is not deserved. Why? Because they smashed the ideals of the character with the premise. Everyone is bashing Lois, but Superman is the real problem character.
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The Luther dialogue (Im a sucker for dry, sarcastic wit--Spacey's a master at it), the conversation between Richard white (the actor surprised me) and Lois while Jason is playing the piano, and Superman's speech to his son pretty much cover the most memorable parts. I will admit that this movie didnt have as much dialogue as the previous movies (deffinitely more silent moments than one would expect), but I never found the movie to have any clunky dialogue. Everything seemed pretty natural to my ears. But then again, I have a tin ear to these things sometimes (I tend to watch silver screen movies more often than not), so take it with a grain of salt.
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Relax baby,My real review will be up soon! been busy with life and all.
about spoilers. Cmon man, the example of superman having a kid was just an example of spoilers. a lot of these reviews have spoilers.They ruin the possible best moments of the film for you. The experience that they had is ruined for you because you go in already knowing what will happen. it isn't fair. -
Now that got a very bad laugh.
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while youre doing the right thing being a responsible parent, it comes with a price; you are no.2, not 1. in her subconscious you are not the man she's loved first. for you this may be immaterial, but for most men this not negotiable, to be mr belvedere. so for the so called greatest of heroes, to sheepishly step aside in total knowledge of the truth of the kid, to be a willing participant of his own reduction to this status, even if he is not worthy, as routh here is depicted for a 5 year absence..it's yet another example of this voluntary self-emasculation UNACCEPTABLE to any man with some moral fiber.
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So my friends and I head out to see the movie at the 10 pm show at the newly revamped AMC Century City (which is really nice, by the way) - The place had always been a haven for celebs to slum with us regular movie geeks... but tonight we were in for a treat. Tobey Maguire was there with full (and I mean two-full rows full) posse in tow. Everyone from Kevin "E" Connolly and girlfriend Nikki Hilton to Ethan Suplee, Chloe Sevigny, Sara Gilbert and Lukas Haas. Yeah. So, seeing the Spidey teaser was a unique experience (the crowd would've cheered anyway, cuz the teaser was cool, but they went even more wild cuz Tobes was there). The movie... well. Upon leaving the theater, we were a mixed crowd. I was tired, and so my view of it was that it was "pretty good, but not great" - still, I hope it does well as I think the sequel could be great. That said, Routh was excellent. Bosworth was not nearly as troubling as Lois as I thought she'd be for me, and Spacey was an excellent Lex. My friends opinions varied from "Loved it" to "Bored out of my mind." So there you go. After the flick, Spidey stopped to sign autographs for some kids, and we got a free ticket (which I plan to ise to see the IMAX 3-D version) because the sound glitched on us a few times.... All in all, I'd say... Not bad, Mr. Singer. Can't wait to see what you do with a sequel... Oh, and nice homage to Donner!
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Not a good sign.
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Well, I think with the first two movies, you have to remember there was a much more optimistic tone--a promise. See, Superman Returns' title is totally apt; the movie is about his return. Yes, he's been gone for 5 years, but to us, you and me, we havent seen him in 20 years (cinematically speaking). Couple that with the crypling of Christopher Reeve and his subsequent death, and there have been many people, myself included, that have felt as though Superman was gone. Maybe we didnt think that consciously, but the feelings were there. This movie is about his return, and the characters' reactions to Superman (hell, even the audience's reaction, if youre willing to break the fourth wall). Through the eyes of Lois, we the audience feel (and in this order) shock, awe, gratitude, remorse, pain, reaffirmation, the blooming of hope and finally, the renewel of trust though we dont know what tommorrow brings. That's the movie in a nutshell. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but that is what I got from SR and what I believe the character of Lois Lane represents in this film. She's a metephor for the audience's reaction to the reintroduction of Superman. Just my take on it.
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Get Elliot S! Maggin's novel SUPERMAN: MIRACLE MONDAY into Bryan Singer's hands, and let him take a whack at it. Part of the story takes place in the far future, though most is in the present; and Supes winds up battling C.W. Saturn, the Agent of Hell on Earth (basically Satan's right hand man, if you will). It could be a genuinely thrilling story...that is, unlike about 75% of Returns! (Whatever happened to Maggin by the way? Does he still write? The guy is GOOD.)
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Just got back from "Superman Returns". Wish I had saved my time and money. Absolutely terrible. The film has some of the worst pacing I have ever endured. Long, boring and event the plane/shuttle rescue didn't live up to all the hype and praise. The only good part of the movie was all the Metropolis rescues during the quake. Lots of HUGE plot holes in a plot that already made no sense. Little to no action and all Superman does is lift heavy objects and pout at the camera. Lois Lane seems like a more important character than Superman in this movie. It's pretty bad when I noticed a girl walking in and out of the theater and checking her cell phone during what Singer proclaims as his "first chick flick". Even the women were bored by the love story and not enough action to placate the men in attendance. The opening day grosses are at $21 million. Certainly not overwhelming numbers for a movis that is being hyped as the second coming. I also notice some apologists on some of the other boards making excuses for the gross saying it's due to a Wednesday and kids are still in school. Not true. School is out for the summer so that excuse does not wash. "Spider-Man 2" did $40 million on it's opening Wednesday and that was early May when school is in session. Looks like a disappointment for Warner Bros. on a "Hulk" scale. May not tank completely but will absolutely be viewed as a disappointment.
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I thought you were referring to dialogue scenes in general--my bad. "Do you love him?" "Richard, he's superman, everyone loved him." I can also perfectly recall the Prometheus lines, what Luthor would trade for a quart of gasoline, and of course the obvious "wrong!" line. And of course, I firmly remember the reciting of the jor-el speech in front of Jason. And no, that scene was not memorable because it was reused dialogue, but because of superman rising to the role of father, of the torch being passed. Good enough?
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Thank you for a lovely night at the movies.
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I loved when Supes was pulling his Atlas routine with the daily planet sign--just a total geek out scene for me.
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i loved the film, from the crash landing at kent farm, to the hospital scenes, to the sun, the son, and leaping around the world in a single bound, i loved every minute. I liked james marsden as the father, and kate bosworth as a less over the top lois than margot kidder. I loved the imagery of superman lifting that continent of solid kryptonite, holy shit mayn.
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But I just wasn't into it. A shame really, doubt I'll ever see much of that again. But did Supes have to "shrug" the globe onto some poor shmuck's car? There was plenty of empty pavement right there. How the poor bastard was fully covered...
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No beginning. No middle. No end. No pace. No climax. No denouement. What- Superman knocked up Lois and took off? What- virtual Jor-El can't tell the difference between his son and Lex Luthor? What- Superman didn't notice that the entire goddamned island was kryptonite?
Yeesh, what a turkey. Kids will hate it, and adults will be utterly confounded by it. -
Lol. I do indeed hope that guy had geico ;)
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I mean, what time? I'm curious if it were late night or something.
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Not that late.
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The way you talk about thismovie is like you never saw what makes a great movie.. Geezzuss... instantbastard has is wright! I mention a couple of the things he mentions in his view on this movie and I see that 90% of the comments basicaly reflects our views, so this movie must suck the life out of alot of people. Mind you it's not the worst movie of all time (Spielberg's "A.I." as that title, I never wanted so much in my life to smack the hell out of That little Haley Joel Smith, or whaterver is name is, for making me waste 2hrs of my life watching a freaking robot boy run around asking people if they had seen his that he loved so much... little prick!), but this does match the Batman and Robin movie less the really scary bad ass Gotham gangs that wore.. neon cloathes... yeah.. that kind of shit in the real New York would not only get your assed kicked, but it would also have had it sodomized by John Peters Polar Bears.. You know they are the frearcest animals right? ANyway the way ckone write his critique of this film made me laugh all the way to the bathroom... He actually loves this film? I was waiting to see how he would dis this shitty movie back in Singer's face.. but After reading his comments.. I actually think that he's Singer hiding out in this forum... One thing I was reeeallllyyy glad about in the movie is when Kumar gets flatten.. I was like "yes.. they finally put him out of is misery" - Anyone know how he got any opening credits? How many words did he speak? I think he said ".. hf.. " at one point, I love Kal Pen... but this.. was painfull to see... They used him as another of the three morons... COME ON!.. Kal probably wanted to be a part of Superman, but this was a slap in the face for him. he deserved to have a role in this movie, not just be the idiot who lets a Crystal fall into the water, or kicks Superman.. No he deserved way better... F... Off Singer... Hope this movie disapoints this shit out of WB and gets Singer out of the movie business... Give it back to someone who loved the Superman character for the next movie, not just to the idiot and his two twelve year old writers...
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Dont you love how I not-so-slyly insinuate that you're dislike of the movie has to do with circadian rhythms;)
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I said this in a previous post, but it's still bugging me. Superman leaves and goes to find the remains of Krypton. But if Krypton blew up and became radioactive (making Superman vulnerable to Kryptonite), wouldn't he be harmed by ANY traces of Krypton floating out in space? God I fucking hate this movie...
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Crimminey, I can't believe I have to write this ... okay, I don't HAVE to, I want to, because it's fun. Okay? HERE GOES: Two superhero films coming out back-to-back. Comparisons are fun, easy, and (let's face it) in the eyes of studio heads - downright INEVITABLE from a bottom-dollar standpoint. So I'll get a little peeved if SUPER-ACTION-FUNBOY Ratner gets the Geek Praise and the Box Office Mojo over Singer's morose, more reflective vision. I don't think these are qualitative assessments ... I think it's plain fucking categories. Ratner goes for EXPLOSION-WICKED-COOL-AAHHHHHH! filmmaking; Singer tries to make films without a gazillion exclamation points. I'd rather the latter make it to the big screen over the former. That's all. Oh ... but I guess I hurt your feelings, so I'm sorry. Please don't be mad. Really.
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For what it's worth, here is my review of Superman Returns:
http://tinyurl.com/hbghc -
LOOK! DOWN AT YOUR WATCH! IT'S A BORE! IT'S A PLANE! IT'S SUPERBAD!
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tyler. he was on a ship. a ship im sure had superhero kryptonite detection. I mean how else could you explain an alien flying off into space? you tell me...
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Should have read IT'S PLAIN!
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no, because the allergy only happens when he is powered by the yellow sun of earth? Right? im sure one of his crystals explained that problem away...right?
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was the reporter's reference to Superman fighting crime in Gotham. It was the only time I really smiled at some small amount of wit and it was a totally throw-away moment.
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Just saw Supes today. Very good! 8 out of 10. My only gripe was the ending was a bit dragged out, and I can imagine the true geeks seeing the midnight showing literally tearing their hear out during the last 15 minutes, screaming in pure madness for the movie to end! BUT, get this --- I took my 5 year old son to see it, and he sat through the entire 2.5 hours of it! Now that's a feat of magic! Great hommage to the 78 movie. Characters were portrayed nicely. As for supes having a kid? Guess we'll see. As long as he doesn't cheese up the franchise ... Thank you B. Singer for a fun time!
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I sat a row from the back and the speakers were lousy in that spot, so the line was a bit muffled. I thought it was funny because I thought she said "how big", and then I remembered the clip they released of that scene online. A few people around me actually thought she said "big" also...."What the fuck did she just say?".
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Good review man! keep up the good work!
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Though I cannot forgive your advertising (jk), your review is pretty much spot on. Full marks.
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I really enjoyed Singer's X-movies, and LOATHED Ratfucker's lame sequel. I expected a good movie here, and what I got was..... meh. Don't get me wrong: There weren't any seriously horrible missteps. But that's kind of the problem. The whole movie seemed embalmed from the first frame. It took itself waaaaay too seriously, the pacing was abrupt and uninvolving, and the writing/performances were bland. Routh had zero charisma. I mean, he seemed like a likable kid, but he seemed like an empty suit stuck in a movie that was way too big for him. And his imitation of Reeve's bumbling Clark were forced and painfully unamusing. He seemed plastic and yes, a little gay. I've got no problem with gay themes in my superhero movies.... Singer was great at helming the X-Men and gay themes made perfect sense within the X-men mythos. And Hugh Jackman, who seems like the world's most carelessly closeted gay man, tore up the screen as macho, hetero Wolverine. But Singer and Routh are utterly unconvincing when it comes to Superman. Seriously, did anyone sense so much as a spark between Routh and Bosworth? It was almost like they recorded their performances seperately. Not that the dull writing was much help. Remember Kirsten Dunst's exasperated, 'I'm getting married in a church' line from Spidey 2? There was more personality in that one line of dialogue than anything in the insanely bloated, nearly three-hour running time of 'Superman Returns'. Sure, Superman returned. As a gay mormon. Which actually makes this movie sound more interesting than it was. Another problem: pacing. The first half-hour of the movie lacked any sort of suspense and did nothing to establish the characters. We don't even meet Lois until Superman saves her plane. Too much stuff happens before the audience has gotten a handle on the characters, and so there was no identification with them or their problems. And the entire 'Superman's dying' denouement was ridiculous, unecessary, and brutal on the audience's patience. Despite his ridiculous scheme, I thought Spacey was the highlight. He at least held my attention when he talked. The rest of the cast was snoozeville. Nope, won't be seeing this again. On the scale of superhero movies, I'd put this above X3 and below Burton's Batman movies. Spidey 2 still reigns supreme, followed by X2, X-Men, Spidey 1, and Batman Begins. Trailer for Spidey 3 looks cool as all hell.
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Seeing where the "kid" storyline goes is hella interesting. I just hope he doesn't take over. Becoming a enemy, or being killed off would be the best way to go.
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just made the plans with another set of friends who hadn't had the chance to get out to see it during the week...I can't wait, it is like I will be seeing it again for the first time...I will bring my audience clap-ometer and make sure I keep tabs on the moments of clapping and cheering.
Then, I think I will go again maybe this weekend with my mudder-n-law, who hasn't had a chance to see it either...Then in a couple of weeks, my aunt comes out to visit, and I'll be sure to take her to see it as well. :)
-MOONDOGG-exactly, I figure the guys who have no idea to think like this are inexperienced guys who THINK they are men. A real man does what is best for his child...even if it isn't his child. the end of the film for me solidifies the idea that he will be in the childs life in one form or another, guiding him, making sure everything goes well. He was gone for five years and he sees that the kid is in good hands, maybe not what he would WANT, but he has no choice in the matter, he now has to make the best choices he can..and that would be to let the child be raised by who he thinks his parents are,while still being a part of his life......I don't get how people are saying the movie was dull? Almost every scene is rich with detail...it seems like a film like this can't win, if they had gone a different rout and spent all the time in this one developing a new villain, or some such plot, we would be hearing how they didn't spend enough time on superman himself, or , how there wasn't enough character developement, or that the villain should have been Lex instead..or some such criticism...No the movie wasn't perfect...but my god it was amazing anyway, all the recent great comic movies, have flaws...Xmen, X2 all have flaws or things we would have preferred, Spidey and Spidey 2, were great but still had flaws...the movies taken as wholes where made with respect to the characters, and were wonderful, BATMAN BEGINS was tremendous, but still had it's flaws...we are all lucky becuase we are living in a time where we get to see these great comics of our childhood, be brought to life amazingly,sometimes not so amazingly, ahem dd, hulk, ff,electra...but wow, I cannot wait to see what is next... -
i think superboy is kind of an interesting character in the storyline...in the comics hes a street kid ala a bronx tale. yea that wouldnt be so bad?
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first off, I only collected comic books briefly as a child, mainly x-men and spiderman. my only real dc universe references were the batman campy westfest, and george reeves in black and white. then in 1978, at the obnoxious age of 10, I sat in a theater with hundreds of other 10 year olds waiting to see if a man really could fly. And we did believe
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This movie will need all the help it can get.
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1) SCRIPT SCRIPT SCRIPT! There are TONS of plot holes, many already mentioned. The dialogue is also pretty lousy. And Lex Luthor's plan is just plain awful. For any good super hero, you must have an equally good baddy. 2) Pacing, i.e. editing. The pacing is uneven. Some shots linger in strange ways while others cut too quickly. I'll be really interested to see what was cut out because of problems with 3) CHARACTER. Ya know, a little more on Supes motives for going away. Make it IMPERITIVE he returns to his old life. Give his mom some deeper emotions. Make Lois truly PISSED at him, and make him work to get back his fans. I know we all know the characters, but it's been 20 years and let's get to know them again. AND they're too young looking. 4) DIRECTION. Direct your ACTORS. Help them to see the big picture. Help with tempo, reactions, etc. 5) LESS CG. CG leads to too many wide shots and not enough close-ups. I want to FEEL Clark's pain of Lois having a child. I want to SEE the shock on Lois' face to Superman's return. 6) the kid. 'nuff said.
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That Ottman's score turned into Elfman's 'Hulk' Theme when Lex launche the gamm... er... kryptonite missile? That was such a wierd reference. And did anyone notice the 'wtf' shot of Lois' ass at the first big Daily Planet meeting? Seriously, the camera cut to her ass, and then cut away, for no reason! Not that I minded,
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In the comics, he shaves by using his heat vision on a reflecting piece of his birth-matrix/spaceship. In the old days (Silver age) I think Supergirl and Krypto had to use their heat vision on him!!
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that had me laughing...I honestly don't care what the box-office is, I hope it is enough to warrant a sequel, I am confident that there will be one, but I am truly going for the sheer entertainment...
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Warners spent on this mutha fucka, they woulda Supes vs. Doomsday vs. Darkseid beatdown fest. Spendin' all that money on a glorified remake with Luthor and a damn kid. Shid, with that kind chedder i coulda got me a cadillac an' chase after me sum white women.
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To this movie? You are a better man than I; God bless you. As for the sequel, please just give Superman a red cloth cape and not some maroon bathmat attached to his neck. That's it for me. Goodnight.
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It's really surprising me - I have seen people go ABSOLUTELY B**F*** over this movie, saying it's the best movie ever made, and other saying it's the worse film since Ed Wood... Why all the passion? I know Supeeman is iconic, and I will admit I am THE TARGET DEMO for this film, but I am honest enought to state it disappointed me (and I'm not alone, apparently). Why do some of you ride to the defense of this pic with such passion? Take a lesson from the movie - don't persue your hopes (like Supes did by leaving in 5 years), be practical and face the world as it is now... and use your strength to make a difference, not snipe on a message board. By the way, I agree with Moriarty, though I am not so kind, on my web site: http://tinyurl.com/f6vab Peace out!
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Well, it's like this, I saw it in a packed house opening night, and I was amazed that three people sitting around me fell asleep. Actually, I wasn't amazed, I envied them a little. What they've managed to do here, is take a campy/goofy/fun superhero, SUPERMAN..scratch that, THE Superhero, SUPERMAN...scratch that one more time. Okay, they've taken the JESUS CHRIST of superhero's (as in the most well known, American superhero around the world..yes this is the hero that people of the future will look back on us as having) and put him in a boring movie. IF my boy Sam Raimi would have made this movie, then Superman Returns as we know it would, at best, be just the first 30 minutes of his AWESOME Superman movie. I mean, how many shots of the guy striking poses flying around could the average person stomache? Snoozeville USA. I liked the characters, but this movie just seemed like a sidequest, a story that happens on a weekend in Metropolis that no normal person would bother telling (with the exception of the kid thing, but Brad Bird still pwned this picture. I'll put a behind the scenes segment of The Incredibles DVD as more interesting and fun than this movie any day of the week.) But what could this movie possibly have different? Well, pretty much anything. First of all, that beat down Supes took from the henchman. Uh, no. I don't feel sorry for him. I felt sorry for Johnny 5 when he got the crap beat out of him in Short Circuit 2. Why? Because his friggin eyeball popped out. Plus he was alive! Second of all, they need to kill off the kid. I want to see Superman pissed off, and I think that would do it. Third, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, Superman needs to fight a friggin MECH ROBOT. Fourth, IMHO they could have remade SUPERMAN III with Dave Chappelle as Gus, and you know what? It still would have been more fun than this picture. Fifth, LOBO. Look, I don't care who plays what, or who directs or writes or does the score or if they use Voodoo magic from Predator 2 to resurrect Marlon Brando whatever (as long as its not Uwe Boll)...all's I care about when I go see a movie are two things. 1. Did I enjoy it? and 2. Is it bad enough that I can make fun of it with my friends?
This movie managed to do neither. It wasn't an ugly movie, it's just that watching this movie to me was the equivalent of playing Monopoly. You sit there for a couple of hours, it's fun when you bust it out, but as it goes along you realise nobody's gonna win. So you put it up, and forget about it. Until someone says "Let's watch Superman Returns." Then you realise a couple hours into it that it was fun when you busted it out. But nobody is going to win. -
He is super because of his MORAL CODE. this is rare in this world. if superman (REEVE)told you to invest in ENRON you would because his word is gold. His word isnt CORRUPT. but that aint the case now. by going against JOREL'S wisdom, interfering with humans and fathering a child.. THE MORAL CODE IS GONE, MAKING KAL-EL NO BETTER THAN ANY HUMAN OR THE CRIMINALS FROM THE PHANTOM ZONE. HE IS FALLEN, HE IS CORRUPT, EVEN WITH ALL THESE POWERS. SO FOR SINGER TO HAVE NO EXPLATION COMING OUT OF KENT'S MOUTH FOR HIS ABSENCE AND NOT INFUSING THIS INCARNATION OF SUPERMAN WITH MORALITY AND RESPONSIBILITY TO LOIS HIMSELF AND THE "S"...YOUVE RUINED EVERYTHING.
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hmmm, very interesting. Just for curiosities sake, are you one of those guys that loves those fan-films that come out every now and then, you know, batman versus the joker and Aliens, and various batmans fighting various villains while superman walks around looking like he might be too old to be doing that type of thing?
The entire texture of Superman returns required an updated costume...and it so worked...I guess not for you...I fear what would happen if the real hard-core fan-boys got a hold of these movies...ah whatever, we are all entitled to our opinions right? I loved it, you didn't... -
Man, i'd take a flawed Superman gettin' his ass kicked by Doomsday than a perfect Superman thwarting Lex Luthor in every goddamn sequel. That shits boring.
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Superman Returns was really just a "meh" movie for me. I generally don't like Superman, I feel he is one of the weakest comic book characters of all time. He's one of those characters where it seems as though his one (1) weakness was a major afterthought. "OH yeah! We have to be able to hurt him, so he can be a REAL Hero!". I felt that Bryan Singer could have done more with the film and in less time. Nearly 3 hours to explain who these characters are and that Lex Luthor is a dick with a revenge complex? C'mon now.
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Hate to say it, but that script was ten times better and more elaborate!
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imagine how much it would have cost for a Doomsday flick. FUCKING YIKES.
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I've posted many times stating that haters wait to see it before bashing it. I wanted to love this but couldn't judge it until I too saw it. Well IT WAS SWEET JEBUS AMAZING!!! I just don't get how those in this room were disappointed. It was perhaps the finest super hero film I've seen (and I've seen them all) Yes it could have been a little more original, but it sets everything up for a new franchise! Fuck all the prebubesent younglings with the short attention spands who felt it was too long wahhhh! I'll be seeing this two or three times in the theaters!!!!
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it rules! fuck the naysayers! bring on the second one! oh, and i think the kid was fine, just get him a haircut.
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I saw this movie tonight and people clapped at the end, but to be honest, I think they mostly did it because they thought they were supposed to. People clap at the end of Julia Roberts movies and 'Fantastic Four,' so it doesn't mean a whole lot, in my opinion. Then again half the people gloating over Superman's failure at the box office (because Bryan Singer must be punished for Harry liking him more than Brett Ratner) probably think 'Fantastic Four' was a better movie than 'Superman Returns,' so whatever.
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good point there sherm...they woulda had to tone down on some elaborate sets. i mean, they coulda gotten some big ass wrestler to play doomsday...not everything on earth has to be CGI. Woulda been cool to see!
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1. Didn't he drug her at the end of sups II 2. he had sex with her when he was HUMAN -- so how can he have a super kid 3. What did she think -- immaculate conception? 4. Can anyone be as dumb as Superman - flying straight into danger without ever THINKING -- gee maybe he has kryptonite?? 5. Louis is a real good swimmer 6. Lex can hurt him with a little green stuff but he throws a whole island of it into space 7. did he not use the last crystal in superman II 8. blow up california - or half the country -- same damn story --- 9. Kevin Spacey's worst performance ever --- WELL I MUST JUST BE A DUMB ASS FOR GIVING MY $$$ TO a BUnCH of hollywood nutballs.... CAN"T they make a better movie than this for $200 million????? At least he didn't throw the S off is shirt to attack someone -- man this was pretty sad ---
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Therefore, I'm not surprised so many people on this site hated it and just want to nitpick it to death.
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.....failure at the box office (because Bryan Singer must be punished for Harry liking him more than Brett Ratner) probably think 'Fantastic Four' was a better movie than 'Superman Returns,'", Or maybe it's just because they are disappointed that Singer could drop the ball so mightily with what's supposed to be the greatest comicbook Superhero. Either that or just a natural reponse to all the overly-inordinate hyping (and now proven to be duly undeserved) of this movie by the media, and especially by Harry and this site in what is becoming an annoying trend following closely on the heels of King Kong last year, and then with the reverse situation with X3 ( regardless of your opinion of that movie). Personally I couldn't give a crap whether or not this movie was directed by Singer or Ratner or who's more liked by Harry. It sucked. Plain and simple. But that's just me........
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The pool balls rolled once, when the yacht was travelling over choppy waters en route to the Fortress of Solitude. Other than that, they were completely stationary, even when the ship was moving. So I don't understand where all this complaining about the nonsensical pool table is coming from. Actually, I think I do understand, sadly enough.
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Seriousy, what the fuck is up with that? It's like yelling at your TV.
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That Superman was hyped in the media? He's Superman. He's the most recognizable pop icon in the world. There's a difference between "disappointed" and "elated," and at least some of the people posting here seem to be genuinely savoring the prospect of this movie going down the tubes. I don't buy that every single one of them is just bitter that the movie's not as good as they'd hoped it would be. As far as Harry's bias is concerned, I'm not even gonna touch that issue, because I agree that he goes overboard. I mean it's his site and blah blah blah, but he generates a lot of backlash towards his own opinions. So I sort of get that part. But, like I said and like you acknowledged, a lot of it is tied into 'X3.'
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people dont like a movie because they genuinely dont like a movie, just like when they like a movie. Its been my experience, however, that two thirds of any audience is going to hate any given movie: its just simple numbers. Lets say, for sake of argument, that Superman earns a billion dollars worldwide. Well, how many tickets is a billion dollars worth? 100 million, right? Well, of that 100 million tickets, how many are repeat viewers? How many hate the film, or just give it a meh? For sake of argument, lets say...5 percent dont like it and 10 percent felt it was average. That leaves 85 million possitve viewings. Well, how many is that repeat viewings? probably as much as 40 percent, but lets be conservative: 20% (of the hundred million, not the 85). This leaves a grand total of 65 million people out of the entire world population's worth of moviegoers (which in itself is a mere fraction of the general public). That, ladies and gentleman, is why you will generally find more negative reviews than positive reviews on nearly any given movie; its just simple numbers. Do you guys understand what Im trying to say? Dont worry about negativity--just enjoy what you enjoy and understand that its okay to hate a movie just as much as it is to like it.
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out of the entire world's population.
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...and it belonged to the character of Richard White, who was the real hero of the film throughout, and who had more charisma than either of the three leads (you know it). Superman was a secondary character in this movie; it just wasn't about him-- and there were too many creepy things about him (Spy on Lois's family with X-Ray vision... Fly Lois in a way that makes her have to grab onto him)... I couldn't tell which shots were Brandon Routh and which were CGI Superman: not because the CGI work was so good, but because with the costume and pancake make-up on, Routh LOOKED like a CGI creation, and his performance wasn't a performance; it was him doing his best impersonation of Christopher Reeve (which is a really, really good impersonation, but still).
Nope,nope, nope... I've let several hours pass now, and I can't ever say it was anything like a lousy movie-- it at least looked too beautiful to be that, but as a Superman movie, it was a big, dour, plastic letdown. -
KILL SUPERMAN!
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Did Lucas write this crap!
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I didn't say the only reason people don't like this film is due to fan backlash. Truth be told, I was rather disappointed with it as well when all was said and done. I'm talking specifically about the people who are taking some kind of perverse glee out of its projected failure to perform.
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and to everyone who thought this movie would fail....HA!
To all the people who are still hating afterward...HA HA!
Great film...truly great. Singer proves again what a great director he is. Routh was fantastic. I can find nothing to complain about. I can't wait to see it again. BTW What a grand touch of class dedicating the film to Christopher and Dana Reeve. Awesome film beginning to end....one of the best I have ever seen. -
Indeed.
That's the point. Stupid, boring shit shoveled into our faces with the stipulation that if you don't like it, you must hate the Donner movies, while being either a total geek hater, or someone who just hates America.
Neither one, here: it's a stupid movie-- I should have stayed home. -
Hi,
Hey thanks for the positive feedback rubensreviews and moondoggy2u. That's not what I expected here! -
Things I was worried about turned out to be not so bad. Routh as the big blue banana was great, Kate Bosworth is still way to young (so she was a top reporter when she was what, 19? Was Superman committing statutory rape when he slept with her - what's the age of consent in Metropolis?) but I thought she was all right, and James Mardsen was a pleasant surprise. I have mixed feelings about the kid, but we'll have to see where the inevitable sequel takes us on that one. Spacey is the perfect casting for Lex, but my God was he poorly written and lame. I wanted to throw the whelp playing Jimmy Olsen out the fucking window - it takes incredible awfulness to make me yearn for the subtle layers of Mark McLure's performance. The whole rehash of the land swindle killed me. In my head I'm thinking "Land scheme? LAND SCHEME?!" in the same tone as Hackman/Lex used when he saw that part of his new west coast paradise was labeled Otisburg. Please give me Brainiac in the sequel - his evil ambitions might be a little more grandiose. I enjoyed the movie, but a couple hours after I left I realized most of the things that made me smile were the homages to the Donner original. I mean, the movie had me when the opening credits were souped up versions of the old ones. Someone called this a "requel" and that's the best way to encapsulate it. I love Superman, I love the original movie and I'm glad the filmmakers do too. I just hope when Singer and Co. start work on the next one they try to develop material that's a little more original - no drowning Superman, no rescue of a plane, etc. And I can understand toning down the garish bright red in Supes' costume, but did it have to be burgundy?
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To answer your question: Yes, this is a good film. It's sweeping, epic, iconic, and easily the best film of summer '06 thus far (although Pirates 2 looms). Bryan Singer obviously had a lot on his mind, and a lot to accomplish with this film, and he generally succeeds. What he gives us is part sequel (to the original two films), part remake, and part character redefinition. When watching Superman Returns you get the feeling it's juggling different audience types- Those who are fans of the previous films, those who read the comic and those who are complete Superman novices. We then all get dropped to the ground to discover the new tweaks and landscape changes of Singer's brand of Superman. Not to get ahead of myself, but it will be nice to see a less encumbered film with the inevitable sequel. In the end it all works however, and we are treated to grand spectacle. This is definitely a film that isn't too concerned with nit picky details, and instead focuses on a very iconic and fluid story to re-introduce us to the big S. Just about every heroic act Superman performs is a broad gesture- Crashing planes, Falling monuments and, well... Lifting continents. The flying is not akin to a jet fighter tearing through the sky, but rather a graceful swoop, and the sound of a fluttering cape. Singer is laying mythology down in broad strokes for a character who is almost nothing but. The first thing my wife said to me once the credits rolled was- 'So, how does it compare to the comic book?'. Now this is a fair question considering I talk her ear off after every comic book movie about what changed, what worked, and what could have been. The funny thing is- I told her there really is nothing to compare. You see, the Superman comics don't really have defining moments or story arcs, save a few. If you look at other characters such as Batman, or Spider man, there are deep wells of stories that have made the character who he/she is, and that fans would die to see on the big screen. Yet Superman has essentially been in a creative rut since almost the beginning. How often can a character who is essentially invincible be in danger? So they invent Kryptonite to give him a weakness, which is fine and dandy until every story becomes about someone trying to defeat Superman with Kryptonite (look kids, Kryptonite comes in all different colors now!). How about an arch nemesis? Someone who is clever and smart, someone like Lex Luthor? Great, now keep it fresh after seven decades of stories (guess who Superman is fighting in the comics as we speak?). So what's left? What do we do? How about personal stories with more emotional conflict? Stories that deal with alienation, adapting to human life and falling in love? Ah, now your hitting on something. unfortunately the guy who wrote Superman ten years before you hit on that exact same something. Can this be said about many other comics and forms of storytelling? Yes, but Superman is stuck in such a catch 22 that he just keeps getting recycled until your brain turns to jelly. So when I'm asked if it compares to the comic I would have to say it really doesn't matter, and it doesn't factor in to my opinion of the film. Superman's adventures on the big screen are a blank canvas to me, free from the restraints of 75 plus years of comic continuity. So now it's to the filmmakers to avoid the creative drought Superman so easily falls in to.
*Spoilers ahead*
What really works about Superman Returns is the direction it does go, one that the comic really never has. What we eventually discover is that Superman has a son. One he had with Lois, yet never realized because he left earth on a soul searching mission for 5 years. He returns to find Lois a working mommy who is all but engaged to their bosses (Perry White, played by Frank Langella) nephew (Richard White, Played by James Marsden). The kid is not the crux of the plot, but is most certainly the direction the franchise will go. What I enjoy about the concept of the kid is that it hasn't been done before. After years of reading comics and watching movies of Superman battling Lex Luthor for the billionth time, this is something new, something I haven't seen. That is almost the sole reason I enjoy it, because it opens up a lot of possibilities, and I'm curious to see where they go.
Brandon Routh must practice Voodoo, because he has sucked the soul out of the late Christopher Reeve. He is note perfect both as Clark Kent, and the man with the big red cape. And when I say note perfect, I don't just mean for the character, but for sounding, and many times looking so much like Reeve that it may cause you to freak out just a little. Bryan Singer- Well done. You found the perfect Superman, even if you may have just pigeon holed him for the rest of his career. Kate Bosworth as Lois Lane? Not nearly as effective. There's fire missing from her character, a spark that makes her the unstoppable reporter she is. She walks through the movie so pent up, with such a weight on her shoulders, that you never get the chance to like her. It's a shame, because Lios should constantly surprise us, and keep our heads spinning. The most surprising performance is James Marsden as Richard White. For a character who you would think is a throw away, he has quite a bit of screen time, and Marsden does wonders with what he is given. You should instantly hate him, but you don't. And he pulls off some of the biggest acts of heroism in the film. This is nice to see since he was given literally nothing as Cyclops in the X-men films. Kevin Spacey is just fine as Lex, and it's not his portrayal that is a problem, but the character itself. More on that in a minute. Everyone else does a capable job, although Parker Posey as Lex's inevitable gal is a bit of a placeholder.
All the technical stuff is fantastic. The effects in particular are top notch, they've redefined the effect of flying in film. John Ottman's score is note perfect, and the opening credits sequence it a nice homage. The Genesis HD camera used to shoot this film now has a ringing endorsement, as this film is visually stunning, and rich in color.
So what about the things that didn't work? Well, there are quite a few, so put on your nit-picky bastard helmets.
Lex Luthor is a terrible villain. Why? Because whether it's in the comics, or on the screen, he's been done to death, and I just don't think I give a damn anymore. I'm not sure which is worse: The Comic- Where decades of Lex stories have him as everything from a robotic suit wearing psychopath, to the President of the United States. And yet they still continue to use him even though he slipped into irrelevance years ago. Or the films: Where he's portrayed as a used car salesman huckster with harebrained schemes, and an entourage of idiots. The film's biggest problem is that Singer is so in love with the original films that he has Kevin Spacey playing a straight continuation of the Gene Hackman Luthor. This is a bad thing for all the reasons I mentioned above. Once again Lex hatches a scheme involving land and real estate, once again Lex steals Kryptonite to defeat superman, once again Lex's scheme makes little sense when you think about it for a minute, and once again we really don't give a shit. The only time Lex does something worthy of Superman villainy is when he shivs Supes in the back with kryptonite without any pomp or circumstance. Although this is completely undone 10 minutes later when he is outwitted by is half brained, toy dog clutching, 'Gal'. The last Lex scene is so bad, so cringe inducing, that it's an embarrassment to the rest of the film. I would expect this 20 years ago when Hollywood thought superheroes were 'goofy' and 'fun', but it has no place in filmmaking of this level.
The rest of the problems mostly lie with logic holes, and suspension of disbelief. Would Superman just leave the people that he hears 'Crying out for help every day' for 5 years? Supes is almost instantly weakened by the kryptonite laced continent Lex creates, and is brought almost to the brink of death. Yet after flying up for a little vitamin D he can lift the thing into space? If Superman possesses all this advanced technology from various alien cultures in the fortress of solitude, then why doesn't he share? Wouldn't curing cancer be a better contribution then saving stupid ass kids from falling into Niagara falls? In a situation of convenience, Lois brings her kid into an obviously dangerous situation, and thus becomes the worst mom in Metropolis. And the biggie- If Superman and Clark Kent disappear at the same time for 5 years, and then return at the exact same, why in the hell does nobody notice? I know it sounds whiny, but we already have accepted that Clark's clumsiness and glasses are enough to fool everyone, so forcing us to suspend our disbelief yet again can be a bit much.
So do all these little things kill the film? No. It's the broad strokes, the epic gestures, that keep the nit picking at bay, and let you just enjoy the hell out of a very good superhero film. -
Richard White WAS more charismatic than most of the leads. Was this movie made in Bizarro World? Brian Singer miscasts a poorly paced and badly edited superhero movie, and James Marsden is one of the best things about the movie? What in hell is going on here? This movie didn't work for me, but I think a lot of the flaws could have been forgiven if they'd found a better actor for Superman. Routh wasn't terrible, but he didn't have the charm to justify the movie's adoration of him, or earn the audience's sympathy when he was doing less-than-heroic things like stalking his ex. But then again, I thought the romance was so lazily written and the chemistry was so nonexistent, that I didn't really have a problem watching Super-stalker. My problem was that I didn't believe the two miscast leads were ever in love. One reviewer said the performers 'knew the words, not the music'. That's a pretty accurate assessment in my view. Routh also didn't have the chops to sell the hyper-bland dialogue he was given. When his mom asked him about his journey to Krypton, he answered in a stock phrase, and the scene ended. Superman may not be Einstein, but he's not an inarticulate sulker, either. The whole movie was built around a character that just didn't seem to be there... It's as if they swapped out Superman in postpreduction and left an inexperienced pretty boy in his place. It's a crucial error. Spider-Man 1 had lots of flaws, but it succeeded where it really counted: it made a living, breathing character out of Peter Parker, and it made you care about what happened to him. Superman Returns has a lot to recommend it, but the most important component seems to be missing. I really hate to diss this movie, though. I think it was a well-intentioned whiff, and I loathe the idea that Brett Ratner's idiocy might outperform Brian Singer's earnest craftsmanship. Singer's by far the better filmmaker. This just wasn't his best film.
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Saw the IMAX version today.. couple of random comments.
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First, one subtle I think iliked a lot was the reverence to history beyond Donner's film. The old woman lex fleeces is played by Noel Neill, the FIRST Lois lane (and before some retard says but Phyllis Coates was the first LL in the series, let me preemptively say shut the fuck up asshole, Neill was lois lane in the 40's serial with Kirk Allyn. And the Bartender was Jack Larson, Jimmy from the 50's TV series.
As anyone who has ever seen quality 3D movies knows, this 3D was a shade above mediocre. It's this new layered 2D to 3D conversion system that they are trying out. For crissake, REAL 3D is just 2 camera lenses set eyewidth apart - they've been doing it since the 40's or 50's. It's old school, non-FX technology. Either do it right or don't bother.
Re various talkback points here (no special order)
Kate Bosworth would have been great in Superman, but not in Superman Returns - she's too young for her to have been a top (or up and coming) reporter 5 years ago.
And speaking of up and coming, all of you "Man of Steel, Woman of kleenex' complainers are fucking retarded. If Clark/Superman tosses you a ball does it automatically leave you with a stump of a hand? When you shake hands with him is it like grabbing the hand of a mannequin? It's only when he willfully notches it up above what humans can do that his strengths are apparent. No reason he couldn't have sex while super powered without injuring Lois if he were carefull. Think of his physical being/skin as having the texture and malleability of human skin, yet at the same time being impermiable.
As far as the kid goes. Just because Superman didn't have his powers when they had sex in Supes 2 is meaningless. people can pass along genetic traits if they don't manifest the effects of those genes themselves (and were his powers gone or just suppressed, anyway?) I believe Lois knows he's Superman's son. maybe not from remembering, maybe from hints over the years (in a lot of variations of the mythology powers develop slowly over time) . Maybe not from counting when he was born vs. when she first slept with Richard. No one has problems with demon/alien babies having gestation periods of weeks or days, maybe Kryptonians have 12 month pregnancies. She just knows he's Supe's son and has been trying to protect him by lying and telling him/everyone that he's fragile and keeping him out of sports, etc. Lex runs in fear because the kid's not sensitive to kryptonite and he just KILLED a guy. he's too young to have the moral dilemma bullshit of an adult. (Oh, and as far as the kid not being affected by kryptonite did you ever hear of recessive, dominant genes. and how you sometimes need both parents to have a gene for offspring to be affected by something?)
And re the retarded comments about the suit that may have been ripped off by the docs, (or maybe just pulled off fast).. if the kryptonite affected Superman, it probably affected the suit too. And why does Superman wear such a "gay" looking suit? Because his mommy knitted it for him from his baby blankets you morons. Look thru the ties/sweaters in your closets and then just shut the fuck up.
There were lots of problems already mentioned. But just as Superman 2 was better than 1, Empire better than Star wars, Spidey 2 better than 1, I'm optimistic and hope that this reintroduction will result in a much better next film.
Oh, and did anyone else notice the goof when lLis is describing Superman to Richard as he stares at Clark, she says "about 125 pounds" instead of 215? Either a typo in the script or she's a bit dyslexic and it got thru.
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I hope you were kidding about how you would have done the ballpark scene. That's the schlockiest, corniest idea i've ever heard. If that's what you wanted to see, Singer is not the man for you
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I just saw this tonight, not expecting this to be overly great, but hoping it wouldn't be disappointing. Man, was I surprised when it turned out to be a pile of dog shit. The actors were all competent, the special effects were matched with anything already out and the direction in general was satisfactory, but the script sucked ass. Lex Luthor as "criminal mastermind" is too thin and outdated to be the central villian. Lex Luthor needs to be the billionaire industrialist that's above the law, not some goofball Dr. Evil copy that travels around with retarded henchmen scheming how to destroy Superman. They modeled (plagerized) this one off the structure of the Donner film, but didn't add anything meaningful. There were so many roads they could have taken. LOIS DIED WHILE HE WAS GONE. LEX LUTHOR ELECTED PRESIDENT. LOBO COMES TO EARTH AND STARTS SHIT. ANYTHING. What did they go with? Lex Luthor makes an island out of kryptonite. That's it. I admit, it could have worse. It could have been directed by McG and have Superman carrying Bernie Mac on the poster.
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Clark's mom knitted that uniform. Out of his baby clothes and blankets. My question is, why is a kansas kid using olympic ski team uniforms and german s & m gear as blankets?
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what are you, reese witherspoon? shut up.
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Sorry that enough shit didn't blow up to satisfy your 12 year old sensiblities, schmucko. I'm sorry Singer attempted to infuse some emotional content and theme into what was supposed to be a 200 Million dollar version of Wrestlemania. But even if you hated the film, the director's sexuality has absolutely nothing to do with it. Not to completely freak you out, but you've seen other movies from gay directors without ever knowing it. In fact, you thought some of those films were badass. Hope the thought of liking some fag's film doesn't throw your world into complete disarray. As for lifetime movies, Clint Eastwood has made a couple of chick flicks, and he doesn't suck dick. Kind of burns a big hole in your gay director=chick flick hypothesis.
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this film cost 300 million.
you have to add the marketing and the 40+ mill they spent developing this fucker over the years...burton, cage, mcg, kevin smith, jon peters, jj abrams none of those fuckers worked on this thing for free......this film cost a lot more than 200 million.fox news are already declaring it a flop pretty much....fuck i hate fox news.lets give it a chance it has only been out one day. -
It disturbs me that many people seem to take offense to Lois having superman's child while bing engaged to another man and or that she slept with another man shortly after she slept with superman. So may people who are into genre fiction of this sort are fairly bright but they seem absorbed in these idealized concepts of relationships. And honestly I think 2006 is a little late to be clinging to the whole madonna/whore complex.
One of the best things about this movie is that Lois has a messy life where she isn't sure who her kid's dad is, smokes when she shouldn't and can't quite be as in love with this great guy who flies a plane as she is with a superhero who ditched her.
And for those of you who say this movie crapped all over family values... Whose family are you talking about? 'cause I have a family and we value loveing each other and dealing with each other's flaws and there seems to be a good amount of that here.
and for the record...I had no idea Singer was gay until I read this mess of posts but now that I know...and I say this as a straight man, I would happily kiss him right on the mouth for making such a great movie. Yup...french and everything. As long as he likes. And I'm pretty hot too for a straight guy. -
... I would go rent Fried Green Tomatos or wait till the Devil Wears Prada comes out. I dont fucking want Singer to turn this into a god damn soap opera, we want to see massive fucking destruction as Superman combats one or more immensly powerfull beings. Lifting a fucking chunk of land into space and getting ass whooped by some thugs just doesn't cut it.
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Um....I'll watch it many times. And ya know Superman isn't trying to fit in. He knows he's a fucking god and that's that...he is just trying to figure out how to be the right kind of god...and yeah he's alone. Sucks to be a god. It's just a cool little myth.
and...Damn I wish all you dolts who are so damn concerened with how queerness influenced superman would just come on out of the closet and get on with your lives. -
Didn't any body else hear he say "I wanted to tell you but you left" when he was in the hospital? You mean left what.. from the plane when she just finally figured it out on the Yact (with the pool table... I still chuckle over the idea of a pool table on a yacht).
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"Richard, he's Superman, everyone loved him." Followed by me thinking, hmmm.....I still love Superman. Let me know when he shows up.
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Richard does not think it's his kid, but didn't think it was Superman's kid for pete's sake. Although, if I were Richard, I wouldn't be too worried about it. He is 10x the man Superman is.
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Did anyone else catch the comment from Perry White that people investigate the killer "clown massacre"? I think it was a reference to Batman Begins where they mentioned that there was a clown killing people and leaving his calling card. This also would tie the two movies together, and continue the setup for the next batman movie. Or it could be another clown from Superman's gallery but I dont know of any other clowns.
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he uses his powers? Think it will be revealed in the next film that Lois kept her child from being "super" because of her issues with his daddy? Or because she didn't want anyone to know the truth?
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"What are you, Reese Witherspoon? Shut up." Diss! What the fuck does Reese Witherspoon have to do with anything I said, you misanthropic piece of shit? I said it makes sense that the movie would be covered to death before release because everybody in the world knows who Superman is. Crazy, I know. How unreasonable (yet 100% correct)! There's an emotional truth to the embarrassingly awful directorial effort that Singer handed in that renders anything that could even be construed as positive by trigger-happy keyboard warriors like yourself irrelevent. I should just stuff my stupid, populist mouth! Fuck and you. Ass.
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is also terrible. Thought I should ward off any fans of Superman. They make the perfect Animated Lex Luthor who owns Metropolis and is cool and calculating into the Spacey clown from Superman Returns.
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the problem with waiting till the next movie is the fact there won't be another one. This one sucked cock till it's head caved in and it sucks. Therefore the next one will be a total reboot after this fagtastic bucket of 300 million dollar toilet chili is forgotten. I am enjoying seeing it fucking flop like Singers dick in the wind at the Playboy mansion though.
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one, they have successfully ruined the Lois/Clark relationship.
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For those of you hoping for a flop, dream on. This film is going to kill at the box office this weekend, and all you homophobic, underoos-wearing virgin geektards will be screaming about, "wait until Johnny Depp wearing bad eye makeup and doing his best Keith Richards impression comes out." And then it will come out, and Supe will still make a shitload of cash. And then you'll be talking about how it didn't surpass this that or the other film, repeatedly backtracking and revising your original point. There will be a sequel, and unlike fox, Warner Bros. will not make it on the cheap. It will rock, and you guys will cry because Singer is gay and still has gotten more pussy than you.
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i agree that movie was toilet chili but it is hardly flopping dude get your facts str8
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who cares if bryan singer is gay. i just hated the movie love all his others though
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Sorry to rain on your rant but everybody has the right to say which incarnaton they prefer,and as for me even though I am a Smallville fan and think Rosenbaum is a awesome Lex ( I met him in person last spring break and told him so) and I also think Spacey hit it out of the park playig Lex as an evil genius with a dark sense of humor. As for the voice on the cartoon,well it's great for the cartoon,but i mean thats really all it is.If we rule that part out then Mark Hammil is an obviously better Joker than Jack Nicolson.You hate the movie, so my advice is don't go see it,but for the people on this site who think that is wasn't any good or for "fags and chicks" I've got news for you, your word of mouth couldn't discourage the guy behind the counter at Burger King to leave the pickle off your Whopper so your really flattering yourself when you say it will keep people out of seeing the biggest blockbuster of the summer. If you think it will go to the theaters ,sit out side with some posters and tell people not to go see it because you think it sucks.My guess is you will get almost as many beatings and wedgies as you did in high school within ten minutes. Grow up,just because Star Wars wasn't what you wanted it to be you don't have to piss and moan because Superman turned out to be a good movie. You really have to ask yourself if you would have even been satisfied with the credits saying written ,directed and starring Kevin Smith and George Lucas? Can't please everybody and my guess is they aren't trying anymore.
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You're totally entitled to be pissed at the homophobia that runs rampant through these talkbacks. But I think Singer dropped the ball with Superman. It's still far better than X3, but this film really was a disappointment for me. I think Singer's sexuality definitely manifests itself in his movies. Just look at Iceman's 'coming out' scene in X2. But that's fine. In the X-movies, Singer's concerns dovetailed perfectly with the themes and concerns of the X-Men stories. But with Superman, there's something off. I don't know Routh's sexuality, but a big weakness of the film is the utter lack of chemistry between him and Bosworth. I really didn't sense an attraction or a plausible emotional connection between the two leads. Since the heart of the movie is supposed to be Superman's heartbreak at seeing Lois move on, this is a glaring flaw in the film. One that affects my ability to engage all the emotional beats that follow. It doesn't have anything to do with being pro or anti-gay (I'm queer-friendly, and proud of it).... but in the case of this movie, Singer failed. He's still miles ahead of that idiot Brett Ratner, though.
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to this film. It was faithful to the characterization of Batman. This film is not faithful to the characterization of Superman, which sunk it, in my opinion. I think Singer is a talented visual director, but this script is an insult to the character.
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And so was Richard.
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out of the giant piece of floating Kryptonite and kick Superman in the balls hard enough so that remembers he has them? Just a thought.
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Your take on Routh may be right. I don't know quite how to put my finger on it, but something about Superman himself just seemed "off" to ("off to?") me. In fact I think it was one of the movie's biggest problems.
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Makes you think whether apart from in the movies there really is life on other planets that is more advanced than here on earth, I am still seeking artistic success in the film and music world, here in nz the music industry doesn't seem very gay friendly unfortunately, intend going overseas to seek fame and fortune, it aint happening for me here...
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doubt because he is just starting as Batman. He is still training, still working all of the kinks out. That is actually the entire purpose of the film. So, if that sort of thing continues into the next film and if he is not sharper and smarter, then, yes, Houston, we will have a problem. It was consistent to his characterization in the following ways: 1) Batman is driven, disturbed, but not nuts. 2) Batman is highly trained, extremely disciplined, and can actually fight in hand to hand combat. 3) Batman is a burgeoning detective and a strategic thinker. 4) Most surprisingly, the film went out of its way to identify the difference between justice and revenge, which I found refreshing, showing that Batman is a moral thinker. Still, I will gladly admit there is an enormous amount of room for improvement. But they got the template correct. It is a fine line in having Batman go-to others for things like he did with Fox in this film. However, he has for years had a team (Batgirl, Robin) and cooperated with Gordon in GCPD. It really doesn't bother me that much. Smart people use resources effectively. Superman Returns, on the other hand, is unfaithful to the character, and turned the most idealistic, warm and purely heroic character into one more morose than Batman.
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That is one ALIEN Superman. The feeling of isolation in this film was bizarre coming from a character like Superman. It permiated the entire film. And yes, he is an alien, but he was raised for his entire life by humans. The holographic daddy rubbed me the wrong way in the Donner films. It worked okay as a storytelling device, but here it just got creepy.
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warmth was when Routh lands the plane and checks on the folks inside. I agree with you on that -it's the one note-perfect sequence in the whole film. Superman may have god-like powers, but he is humble and earnest. He is a Kansas farmboy. If we are to believe he went soul-searching for five years, we needed an explanation of the radical event that had such a profound effect on him as to make him leave his adopted planet and a woman he was clearly in love with. It makes no sense, and really, other than trappings, has no connection with the Reeve Superman.
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THAT realistic. It could've used some stylistic flair, some real romance. I did miss the scale of the Burton Gotham, and the lines of the Batmobile. Batman is a noir/gothic romance figure - not the Punisher in a batsuit.
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Please, dear lord, kill that kid, that little tiny piece of superlad. Kill him in Superman Returns 2 (Possible title: Superman Lives). Kill him most fowl. It would be sooo cool to see him die.
p.s. introduce Bizarro as the main villian. That would be oh so cool. -
I liked X-3. Hulk is interesting in terms of what it was shooting for, but a definite misfire. However, it's not really unfaithful to the character of the Hulk itself - it's just that everything surrounding him is a mess. Same with X-3. It correctly captures the core characterization, however poorly you may think it was executed. Same with Batman. Superman, on the other hand....is unforgiveable. It is like Singer turned up the isolation metaphor notch from X-Men to 11 and then said - sucks to be Superman! The end.
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She did love him - real love, though, not just wanting to bang him like all of the other women from the Batman films. She wanted what was best for him. Quite refreshing - I admired this choice in the script. When I say romance, I mean in the classic Star Wars/Indiana Jones type way of adventurism that is not restrained or self-conscious. Cillian Murphy was too young for the part, but I thought his character served it's purpose okay. I agree that Nolan did not make Batman intimidating, but really, none of the Batmen have been, except for that ONE scene where Keaton's Batman holds the guy over the ledge threatening to make him street pizza and has that great exchange: "What are you?!" "I'm Batman." A large part of Batman depends entirely on how the criminals react to him. Also, it would help if they found someone who knew how to use shadows and light a scene for a change. Batman has ninja training, so it would fit right it with him melting in and out of the shadows and playing up the urban myth aspect (although this film touched on that smartly, I thought). Dead End captured this type of use wonderfully as he emerges from the puddle with his cape. Everything does not have to be explained, it just has to follow the film's internal logic.
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The crowd I saw it with cheered (which is rare where I live) and really seemed to love it. It's a sweeping, good hearted romantic film, not a dark cynical take on the character.
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This largely depends on your view of what makes Superman Superman.
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It's well past the witching hour and I just got back from the late, late show. Had to tell the truth right here, right now. This was the most powerful experience I've had in a comic book movie since I was a kid in '78. Yes folks, I'm an old fart past forty, but don't condemn me just yet. The hard guys, 20 somethings, sitting next to me were leveled to "school girls" by this film. The audience reaction was palpable and wild. They loved it almost as much as me. I have long believed Donner's '78 Superman The Movie to be the best comic book movie ever made. Guess what? Singer just topped it. Bosworth was absolutely note perfect amazing in this film. Her detractors are lepers. I'm floored that anyone has said she even approached a mistake in her performance. She was Meryl Streep perfect... PERFECT. I'm a tough critic, and let me tell you... she delivered ten times what anyone else did... AND EVERYONE ELSE WAS FANTASTIC. Does that put it in gear for you. The acting in this film is grand and subtle, explosive and implosive, simultaneously. The film is dazzling and heartbreakingly good. Every frame, every thought, every nuance is incredible. At last, I have a perfect superhero film for the ages. I will watch this film when I am 90 (if I make it) and still well up like a child. It's that good. God bless Brian Singer. God bless him, God bless him, God bless him. Thank you!!!!!!!! Password is Superman.
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There was way too much Christian allegory in this movie. Superman returns to Earth. He was Jor-El's only son, a god among men. He is a compassionate leader to them. He is struck down, and beaten, and dies for humanity. He rises again days later. It goes on and on. Sure, some elements were in the comics, but it's like this movie sought to underline these aspects. His having a son was kind of like throwing a little DaVinci Code into the Passion of Kal-El. The more I think about it, the more this movie disappoints me.
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...liked it so far. So that leaves a VAST majority of people that hated/were confused by it. I'll hold my take on it until I see it, though I hope I will enjoy it as much as any movie I hope to enjoy when I plunk down my 10+ sawbucks. But I will laugh my ass off if X3 beats it's ass in final B.O. In the end, there remains one hope for this Summer...and that is Captain Jack Sparrow.
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You God damn anal retentive, elitist, cynical, non-inspired cocksuckers can burn and rot in hell. This was a good movie and you mother fuckers damn well know it. There wasn't a GOD DAMN thing wrong with this movie. Certainly no more than the mother fucking peice of shit films I've seen some of you bastard whores fucking championing and defending on here.
This was a good, solid, well-crafted film with alot of talent and heart and money put into it, and for a bunch of fucking faggots to sit around and act like their fucking opinion means a damn is sick shit. You mother fuckers burn in hell, go get a job, and leave making movies to the people that make movies you cocksucking mother fucking bastard whores.
There was more heart in this film than anything you mother fuckers can bring to the table. Peices of shit. -
to anyone saying this film is going to gross north of $250 million, you're sorely mistaking. Thursday's numbers show the film is down 46%. If it can get back to $20 mil on Friday, the film will be lucky to do 85 - 88 for 5 days. And when Captain Jack Sparrow opens up next week, it's going to drop 55% at least.
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http://uk.rottentomatoes.com/news/comments/?entryid=339349 makes a comparison to the poor opening of batman returns and how it picked up. the difference being here batman got excellent word of mouth and wasnt up against something big like Pirates2 (at least i dont think so)..oh and batman was good
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Saw it last night. I would have gone sooner, but work got in the way.
I loved every second of it.
Is it perfect? No, but parts of it are. The shuttle save was amazing, especially the touch-down in the ballpark with the screaming crowd. If ever there was any doubt that Singer was casting his version of Superman in a "God-like Light" this scene proves it.
The kid is fine, adding to mythos. Lois is a little young looking, and Parker Posey was a waste. Im not a fan of hers anyway, but she was not served well by the part. I miss Valerie Perrine! Spacey was good, and I bought his take on Lex a little more than Hackmans, which I always thought was too campy.
As for Routh, I really liked him. He's not exactly "Heroic" looking, as I always pictured Supes as being chiseled from Granite. But...he works. Hits the right notes and nails those Iconic poses.
This is a movie criticism page, so I suppose that Im obligated to critique. However, I have to say that after waiting damn near 20 years for this, I was not disappointed at all.
Loved it!!! -
Hey.. Just heard back from one of my friends who works for a distribution company for the studio. They got a screening preview for Pirates 2, he said that this WILL BE THE ONE TO WATCH THIS SUMMER... He saw Superman a month ago and had warned us that there were major holes in the script and the movie was at best a little better than than the Hulk movie (Which is probably the worst superhero movie ever made, and I'm including the failed Captain America made in the 80's). At least we had a warning for Superman "Go see the movie... But for crying out loud it's bad" were his exact words. But now he told me that Pirates 2 was probably even better than the first one because 1) good story line; 2) Great director = Great performances from the actors; 3) Great effects to complete the storyline. He did say that there was a lot of things going on but at least they were able to get somekind of a flow to carry all of it, so the movie doesn't seem overwhelmed by too much things going on. He gave it a thumbs up, and remarked that once this one opens up... Superman's numbers will go down the drain in a minute. So, THE SUMMER MOVIE to see will be Pirates 2.
Free for all! Freefinger! -
Nitpicking about this or that plot point or plot hole or contradiction to one of the earlier films. Guess what? It's all makebelieve! You do know that right? A man could not come to earth from another world and have superpowers, etc. Hence, your nitpickery and criticism are indicitive only of your own lack of heart, of belief, of humanity. The people posting complaints on this board are very likely the same kind of people who kick cats or shove old ladies down subway stairs. Thanks ever so much for outing yourself as cruel vicious ignorami.
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I mentioned this before, but the AMC Theater I saw supes at on Wednesday did NOT play the Spidey trailer. Just a bunch of other crap, and BOY was I pissed. I was curious about seeing Supes, but I was intentionally paying to see that Spidey teaser on the bigscreen. So a big fuck you to the AMC Theater at Westwood in Rocky River, Ohio, or to whoever was responsible for the absence of the Spidey trailer and the presence of ten annoying computer animated kid movie previews. Oh, and my theater was at least 75% full for Supes, and there was no applause at any time. A couple audible "Whoas" and "Ooohs" for the plane rescue and bullet to the eye (both of which I agree were cool), but that's it. That's the most Singer could do with Superman, and even the bullet sequence seemed forced into the movie just to have a "Supes stops bank robbery and the bullets just bounce off" sequence. After the film I think I heard a collective "meh" from my audience.
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Have none of you guys seen the IMAX version! if so whats the 3D effects like?
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I guess the baseball game should have been called on account of 'plane'.
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The effects were okay, but in the end I felt something akin to sensory overload; just too much going on. It was also somewhat distracting having to wait to put on/take off those glasses every 30 minutes. And there were a lot of complaints about the seats in the Raleigh, NC Imax theater hurting the lower back, mine included. I have a been a fan of 3-D technology all my life, so I report that the effects weren't all that awesome with no small amount of sadness and dissatisfaction.
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I cannot believe you thought that Batmobile Tumbler sucked, and Gary Oldman as Gordon was only "OK". What the hell are you smoking? Those were two of the best things about the whole movie next to Bale and Cain.
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I tried to stay away from this TB until I saw it cause' I didn't want the spoilers to jump up and bite me. I thought it was amazing. As soon as it started I caught myself with the biggest grin on my face. It's well worth the wait. And the haters predicting Pirates 2 is gonna kick Superman's ass......why? Why can't there be 2 fun summer movies out there to enjoy? why does there have to be competition? Are the you haters hellbent on pimping Pirates getting a cut of the box office? Oh yer not....then shut the fuck up and enjoy the movies!
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If you can sit through 2 1/2 hours of a crappy movie and not have at least some "hate" in your mind, then I guess you are a better man than me. But most people hate to sit through crappy movies, and Superman Returns was one of them.
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Anyone here offended by the new animation/icon up top? Yes? No? OK, good.
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I have to totally disagree with you on "Batman Begins". I think you missed the point about the fact that Wayne is just starting out and he doesn't have everything figured out just yet. The "Tumbler" kicked ass, the Scarecrow was not the main villain (and therefore didn't really require much focus), and the casting (excluding Holmes) was spot-on. Sorry, but the film had a lot more going on than your post would admit. But that's OK...I know you LOVE BATTLESTAR GALACTICA!!!
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To pleasing a fan base and being a hit among the public. And it STILL has its fair share of haters and detractors. I loved it though - but that is not what this post is about. And I'm sure that people disagree with me on that point. Moreover, there are a multitude of different versions of any comic book character, let alone SUPERMAN, and its going to be a tough job to please everyone who has ever come into contact with that character before the film.
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I still see the same icon. What I don't see is an explanation, or an apology, or even an excuse.
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The movie was exciting, emotional, and fun. I will definitely get this on DVD. However, my main complaint is the same as Moriarty. Lex Luthors plan was just stupid, and I felt the climax between Superman and Lex wasn't intense enough. Lex is a great character though and I think they could have done so much more with him when superman and he faced off. -
My major problems with an overall good film:
1) Kate Bosworth is NOT Lois Lane. Not even close
2) If this is a sequel to Superman 2, why would he leave the Earth? He abandoned his powers for a couple of weeks to get laid in Sup2 and the world got taken over. So after that he decides to leave for 5 years?
3) The Kryptonite land mass. He lands on it and within two minutes his powers are so drained Lex Luthor smacks him around. How the hell did he pick the entire thing up and fly it up to space? They made it clear that the kryptonite was still around him. Don't get me started with the hospital.
4) I like that Superman is really Clark Kent. An humble, mild mannered guy from the midwest. I think that Chris Reeve's choice to make him clumsy made more sense when it came to people not suspecting he was Superman. Other than Clark is geeky why would anybody not think he's Superman. BTW, How can Lois completely ignore him. He's 6'4" and athletic. Are glasses supposed to make a guy seem so unattractive? I knew a guy in college we nicknamed "Clark Kent" because he was tall and athletic and wore thick, geeky glasses. He got more ass than a toilet seat! -
WTF? Is everyone going nuts around here? Hulk had a weak opening, and a lame ending, but what was in between was good (could have been better, but still was good) and the tank scene was fucking amazing. Returns had a few great scenes, but nothing compares to Hulk's tank scene. That shit was awesome as hell. You Hulk haters, are a bit delusional to put it in the same league as Cap. Seriously, WTF. And POTC can suck my balls, the first film was a , boring mess that ran for a hour too long. I'll still check out the sequel next week, but at this point......*yawn*
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Its pathetic when someone argues that its hypocritical to be intolerant of intolerance. I ought to knock your head off you panzy metrosexual.
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For a detailed review of Superman Returns (told from "his" and "her" perspectives), go here:
www.hesaidshesaidlove.blogspot.com
www.hesaidshesaidreviewmovies.blogspot.com -
In the comics (not that Singer has followed the most recent Supes incarnation very closely...) Supes exudes an aura about a 1/4 of an inch around him that is like a force field protecting him AND the suit. That's why his cape is always gettin f***ed up in fights. NOW when he's weakened that force field fluctuates, and that fancy set of tights turns into just a plain ol' leotard and you could slice and dice it just like the cleaners did to my suit last month. So that's one explanation...
The movie DID rock, BTW...but bring on BRANIAC! -
Is it just me or is that lady's head tougher than a Sherman Tank?!?
She was thrown around in a plane, hitting her head multiple times, smashed against a globe, and had a steel door smack her one as well. Not a bruise or cut to be seen. I guess you would have to have a noggin of iron to be giving head to the man of steel.
Also, I sat through 3/4 of that damn movie and the harddrive or whatever was skipping every couple of minutes. Looked like I was watching a Quicktime movie that wasn't getting enough bandwidth to play. Digital farts throughout a movie really takes you out of the experience! -
I was hoping they'd have a title card at the beginning with something like "By the Way, Lois Still Doesn't Know Clark is Superman". The comics and teevee shows all get jumbled in my head.
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..and saw Cars too. It was good.
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I've never really understood why there has been so much Katie Holmes and now Kate Bosworth bashing going on. They were BOTH fine. Holmes wasn't in Batman Begins all that much for people to go all stupid ass over her and Bosworth is just fine as Lois Lane.
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Seeing the film on a real, real big screen was amazing, but some of the 3d effects appeared flat. *SPOILERS* for example, the boat at the end had a cardboard cutout feel to it, and on the Kent farm Clarks head seemed disembodied at points. It was worth the extra four bucks just for the plane sequence and the ending flying sequence. *END SPOILERS* I liked Lex in the movie, frankly. His plan was about learning to manipulate crystals. IF he had suceeded in building his island he would have had the crystal technology. When he learned supes was alive it took a backseat to killing him. The logic could have been much, much clearer.
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I dont get it. If Superman became 100% human before bedding Lois in Superman 2, how can his kid have some superman power in him?
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I saw the flick again, because after a day or two, I found myself unable to remember anything good about the movie. Whoever wrote that the airplane sequence was the greatest sensory thrill on film was exaggerating beyond integrity (maybe he was hyped up on an 85 ounce theater fountain drink). This one is just unremarkable, and ultimately forgettable, but not necessarily bad... just a little boring. Maybe Supes was given nothing to do in the script, or perhaps Singer didn't trust Routh's acting enough to really put him in front of the screen for most of the movie, but Superman and CLark Kent come off more like an idea or a plot device rather than a true character. He is the thing which causes conflict for Lois and Lex, but not really a character in his own right. That's a big letdown. I honestly can't say if Routh is good as Superman because he didn't get enough to do to convince me one way or another. The same goes for his Kent, though in his LIMITED time as Kent, his comic timing is sorely off. Kate Bosworth does a fine job with the role given to her, but it's like she isn't really Lois Lane. Her role has been written far too tame when compared to what she was in the early comics or the Kidder interpretation or the Superman series of old. It's not that Bosworth is bad. In fact, she acts rather well in my opinion, but it just isn't Lois Lane. The "romance" with Supes is basically non-existent, but this seems to be a combination of bad writing and a lack of chemistry between Bosworth and Routh. The dialogue is truly a problem. The plot isn't bad (in fact, the theory behind the movie is what makes the film somewhat enjoyable) but the dialogue is corny and uninteresting, with the finest example of this being Superman's speech to his son where he recalls Jor-El. Uuuugh. Too long as well. It should have ended much earlier to avoid what others have repeatedly pointed out as an anti-climactic end (maybe if things had been tied up neater it could have worked, but no such luck). On second viewing, and after a rewatching of "Batman Begins," I have to admit that "Begins" is a better film despite that movie's sloppy third act. At least "Begins" has a few memorable scenes. SR isn't bad, per se, but Superman Returns just doesn't have any fun.
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the fanboy." Don't you guys see what is going to happen? 20 years from now, some director who LOVES X1 & X2 but absolutely hates Ratner's X3 is going to ignore that movie, make a sequel to X2 that largely just recycles the story of X1 while also ignoring significant plot elements of X2 (I suspect Dark Phoenix will be as forgotten as the mind-wipe kiss). It'll be X3 v. 2.0! And if irony is made out of strawberries, we will all be drinking smoothies.
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At least not according to Singer and his screenwriters! Find the story here: http://tinyurl.com/m78lf "Truth, justice and all that stuff"...ugh.
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boring, dull
(that's what 260 mil does?) -
1) No way you can lift a small continent up from a single point like Superman.*******Physics aside, I like the theory that Superman's powers stem from psionic sources...he's got telekinesis, Kyle, that's how he pulls the boat out of the water from no fulcrum point, once he touches something, it's being moved by his telekinesis, and appears to be super-strength...that's how I see it. My High School Physics Teacher would disagree, but after all it is a fantasy...***** 2) Traveling to Krypon. It seems a plot contrivance that Superman possesses a "faster than light ship" (yet that doesn't seem to have a landing gear) that can travel hundreds of light years with full life support, oxygen, food, bathroom, etc... You'd think that this would be technology that Superman would be willing to share with us lowly humans. For that matter, Lex Luthor was right. Superman possesses all this technology but would rather waste time saving falling individuals while thousands die of disease, starvation, war, etc...********Thou shalt not mess with human history, especially doing stuff for them that they can do for themselves. Jor-El tells Supes this, because humans will abuse resources that appear infinite....Thank God for the extended cut of Superman. Yes, he could do this, but he is morally forbidden to do so when humans can solve these things for themselves. As for the spaceship, he needs it because there are red suns out there. There are no landing gear because Kryptonians aren't very design conscious. Um, they kind of suck in designing things, that's why they let stuff grow out of crystals...okay guys...big giant dome with rear projection tvs? Sounds good, let's make that our Supreme Court. Yeah, that idea kind of sucks. But landing gear wouldn't look cool on the flying chandelier.*********** 3) The lack of security at the Fortress of Solitude. OK, the FofS possesses fabulous alien technology that can pretty much destroy the planet. In fact, crystals that can MAKE continents sitting right out there in the open.**************IN ANTARCTICA...or the NORTH POLE. An uninhabitable wasteland that most people can't get to. Sorry for the interruption.************ YET.... Superman has no security what-so-ever***********Again, he put the damned thing in the middle of nowhere. Two people know where it is. And now, I bet he buys some motion detectors at least, and a three panel system for his fortress.*********** AND he flies off for 5 years KNOWING that the greatest criminal mastermind in the world KNOWS ITS LOCATION!**********Okay, yeah, he left for five years, not remembering about the court of appeals system. But come on! He figured there was NO WAY that Luthor woud get an appeal bid that soon. And Luthor had help from an upstanding rich lady, telling people he was good, or outright bribing them. Heck, they're not gonna get caught! Superman's in space! But Supes is an adopted kid told that his birth parents might still be alive! He jumped at the chance to find out, and regretted the decision afterward. Superman is strong, but Batman is smart. But, without these mistakes this hero made, what the hell would the movie be about? And then, the answer comes back again and again: GIANT FUCKING SPIDERS. So, I hope you were mentioning these things in hopes of getting a measured and thought-out response. Rather than just kvetching about things that annoy you. Let's be friends!
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This film was absolutely fucking amazing. It was everytihng I imagined it COULD ever be. I cannot even believe there are so many of you here knocking the film. WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU EXPECTING? The effects were top-notch, the characters were fleshed out emotionally, and Singer, once again, respected the source material. Again, I repeat, what the fuck did you guys want? This could have been an unadulterated DISASTER. Tim Burton could have given us a brooding freakish Superman, played by Nic Cage, in some shitty black costume courting Lois whom could have been played by FUCKING Beyonce... yeah, you remember those rumors you douchebags? I felt like a kid again watching this film and I will probably see it three more times while it's in the theaters. My six year old son loved it more than I did. He almost broke his arm jumping off the damned couch yesterday. Now, Isn't that the point of this movie?
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"This film was absolutely fucking amazing. It was everytihng I imagined it COULD ever be"....then why did it open at 21 million, well behind fantasic four? get help..douche.
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Because, as we all know. Film gross is great indicator of its quality. Douche.
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What exactly was fleshed out for Supes? Sure things HAPPEN to Superman, but Superman himself has doesn't change at all in this film (other than becoming progressively more stalkerish with Lois... a nice gag in the first film, but an important plot point in SR. Creepy.). The closest they came to character development was when Clark gave his speech about not saying goodbye. His Jor-el speech was corny and delivered poorly. Lex gets nothing new, nor Perry. The only characters who developed were Lois, and to a lesser extent Jimmy. Richard was a good character, but there is no resolution for him at all. It's a mishandling. Superman has to be written very carefully, and I'm afraid that neither Routh, Singer, Harris, or Dougherty know how to handle his character.
P.S. Must everyone on this site swear profusely at the drop of a dime? -
Wow..Its a fucking movie!! ABOUT A GUY IN TIGHTS!! Get a life. It was big and fun. Why does it need to be more than that? Does everything have to be Citizen Kane? Of course this flick wasnt going to please everyone, but to actually nitpick about some of the shit I'm seeing on this TB is lame.
It wasnt perfect, but what is??
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First off I just want to say that I
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people check the word of mouth, reviewers, etc, and thats why the movie is bombimg. because the. film. is. not. good. the film. is. good. looking. its like the hotchick with no brains/personality. but you wouldnt know this cause you are a http://tinyurl.com/esq9s
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Seeing as how you were banned for your homophobic/Zionist Conspiracy/anti-semitic remarks, you really don't have a leg to stand on. Come on, using the $21 million opening as your reasoning - is that the best you've got?!
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Especially one who likes going "He's a racist homophobe anti-semite". It makes you seem a whiny bitch. Shut up.
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Jun 30, 2006 12:53:38 PM CDT
I'm sorry Ringodoodles. Too close to the bone for you?
by mr nice gaius
zfisk/homewrecker got himself banned for inappropriate statements in TalkBack. The fact that we all recognized him as "zfisk" when he came back just shows you how much of a tool and a coward he really is. I have no problem pointing him out and reminding folks of his insanity. But I'm curious Ring - you seem to enjoy babysitting ol' zfisk. And this isn't the first time you've rallied to his rescue when someone took him to task. You wanna tell us what that's all about superstar?
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I have to say i was thoroughly surprised by how good Routh was. I was one of the doubters and I have to admit I was wrong about him but....Bosworth was not good as Lois and the whole kid thing was stupid and should have been left out of the movie. Other than those two it was a good movie
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Dude, I was in a Carmike Cinema when that crap happened. The digital projector was screwed up apparantly. The whole audience was booing by the end. But thanks for flying off the handle at me.
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you are a pussy because you cant afford ato have a nemesis. you have em banned. and youre a bigger pussy than Routh for defending this Monument to Cinema Estrogen. and pulling up records on other users is totally useless but if anything it says more about you and your efforts to control everyone here, making it crystal clear who you are. but if we reveal your identity and blow your cover its wrong. anyway the movies you wrote sucked, that's all im saying...anyway it's unananimous. the film sucks. for the first time on your own site you are outnumbered and its frustrating, isnt it? cant wait for black monday. you better get out and go see doucheman with your kid a hella lot more times before monday, so put on your tights and get down there, you got a flick to save. douche.
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everyone is trumpting this as the Supes killer....but already bad reviews are starting to appear regarding it..maybe both movie are a letdown??
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Insanity in written form. Z - can I call you "Z", zfisk? - are you going off on yet another one of your Doc Paz/Multi-username rants?! Whatever. Anyway, you'll notice that I haven't said anything pro/con towards "Superman Returns" because I haven't seen the film yet. Unlike yourself who seems content at telling everyone why it sucks, how anti-God it is and why it sucks. So, tell us again Z, why is Routh a pussy? We can't wait for your answer.
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some theaters don't use traditional projectors anymore. I was gonna say somthing earlier, but I wanted to be sure he wasn't a lowdown dirty digital pirate, before mentioning that. But, I gotta admit, the way they fuck ya at the concession, I'd probably download too if I had kids.
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Supe may be getting less than out of this world reviews, but the consensus is a solid B among critics. The consensus among viewers is a solid B+. As for this site, well this site doesn't mean shit. So many of you are so out of touch it's not funny. You actually think that your word of mouth effects box office? You'd have to come out of your mom's basement for that. As for The Four comparisons, that piece of shit movie does not deserve the superlative, that movie opened on a Friday, and you want to compare it to the box office Supe brought in on a Wednesday? Get real. Most people have a four-day weekend coming up, and the box office for Supe is going to absolutely explode. As for all these people accused of being studio plants, you guys again have exaggerated your own importance.
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Just read your other post, anchorite. No harm done, after I reread my post I see how it could have been taken the other way. I did complain to the manager, but since I stayed for the whole movie, I couldn't bring myself to ask for my money back. Kind of like eating a whole steak then saying it sucked and wanting my money back.
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If Superman lands on the land mass and withing 45 secs kicks his ass beat by humans, how the hell does he lift the whole freaking thing up and take it into space??? There was green crystals all around him AND he was wounded. Not quite as bad as reversing the earth's spin but geez.
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I heard that they needed to digitally recuce Brandon Routh's package to make the movie PG-13. Anyone else hear that?
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Supe went beneath the crystal landmass to the earth beneath. If you notice, as he's lifting the mass, huge chunks of rock are following away, not crstyal, rock. The crystal doesn't being to poke out of the rocks until the mass is in space. Supe looks at his hands and sees the green krypto crystal on them. He gets weak and falls back to earth.
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Ok, let's compare it with another movie that opened on a Wednesday. I n fact, let's compare it to another superhero movie that opened on a Wednesday, and which a lot of you apoligists claimed this movie was going to"own". Let's see, um, Spiderman will do just nicely for this. Spiderman opened to $41 million when it opened on a Wednesday. Superman Returns barely did half that business with supposedly higher anticipation and better reviews and will be lucky to get to $80million by Sunday evening. Oh, and as a bonus, it's drop-off so far is 46% and climbing So no, we're not going by "our" word of mouth here on the talkback, we're going by the fact that 'Most' people, ( as in non-geeks and non-comicbook fans) don't seem as enthused by this movie as they supposedly were supposed to. And you're the guys with the exaggerated sense of self-importance, thinking that just because you think this turd is the best movie ever made, than anyone who points out legitimate weakness in the script, actors, direction, is just a hater or a douche. Keep waiting for that weekend explosion at the B.O.; for there will be a bomb alright.....
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He hovers above the earth, listening for signs of trouble and the best he can find IS A BANK ROBBERY? How is protecting the insured wealth of rich men worthy of admiration when someone is probably getting killed or raped down the street? Or for that matter, stopping the Janaweed or George Bush? I'm not saying he has any duty to help at all, but if he's gonna help people, why not help alleviate true suffering? Of course he had to stop Lex since that whole fiasco was supes fault for leaving those WMDs unguarded, but all of his other "rescues" tend to be petty. Also does anyone else find it amusing that his last lines in Superman II were, to the president, don't worry, I'll never leave again (or something like that) and then this "sequel" starts with him returning from leaving again?
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okay - since it annoys me to read long reviews here's short & sweet
Movie was mostly a nice intro to Brandon - a very apt homage to the originals especially the work of Reeves, and a good introduction of what's to come with the new team of Singer & Routh. I think we will truly get to see more development of the character and story as we go
Yes the plot was a bit lame, except for the son - I REALLY loved that
Casting was great except for Bosworht - far too young, but she still held herself well
Spacey - excellent, Posey - Excellent
and the plane sequence - truly amazing!
that's all! -
don't let them get away for providing a shitty product (not the film, the presentation). No good torrents yet btw ;)
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But don't forget, he still had some kryptonite in his wound the whole time. I guess the problem is there is no villian that can put us in suspense without using the damned Kryptonite crutch every time. Supes seems too powerful. I really prefer the superman from the justice league cartoons and the earlier series better than this movie. My 7 year old loved it, though.
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I am just a bit annoyed at comic book movies for one major issue - there are never any real women (and i dont mean as in curved, i mean as in AGE) playing the love interests - i mean, Batman Begins had Katie Holmes, who regardless of how old she truly is looks 15, and Kate Bosworth pushes to look 18. Where are the Michelle Pfeiffer's of this age? Why do we get nothing but doe eyed tiny women as love interests? Are all super heroes pedafiles?
Please, someone tell me i'm wrong! -
You want to compare it to Spidey, that's cool. Spidey rocked and had ungodly box office, but with Supe we're talking about a movie that opened on a Wednesday before a four day holiday weekend. I don't know if Supe will top Spidey's box office. Spidey kicked ass, but to compare Supe to the Four is laughable. I never said the movie was the best ever made. I don't think it was perfect, or some grand work of art, just a really fun, really solid Superhero flick. My opinion is more mainstream than yours on this one, based on the Joe Public reviews so far. And i'm not talking about just the douche bags on this site, but the general pop. Most people liked this movie. I understand you had grander than grand expectations and they weren't met. Sucks for you. After Tuesday, Supe will be hovering near 120 Mil and you'll be bitching that it's just because it appeals to chicks.
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Batman Begins was very good. Not super-awesome, but very good. On par with Batman 1989, if not slightly better. Spidey 2 is the best, period. Superman Returns was just okay. I'll watch it again on DVD at least once, I'm sure, but I felt it had a lot of problems. It was not better than Donner's Superman 1978, and frankly I enjoy watching Superman II (1980) more than I enjoyed Returns. Superman III has some okay moments, while IV is an all out embarrassment, as are Batman Forever and B&R. The three X-Men movies are all pretty good for me, while not "very good" like Batman Begins. The first X-men moves a little slowly, but it's a set-up movie. Spidey 3 will own the universe and Sam Raimi will be the next President if he wants it, and Bryan Singer will watch S3 and weep hot bitter tears of remorse. I guess what I'm saying with all this crap is Tim Burton and Chris Nolan both nailed Batman in their own unique ways, and for different generations. Sam Raimi is the new and future King and I would wash his car and shine his shoes. Hail Admiral Raimi, owner of us all
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Are as dead-wrong as all the idiots claiming the movie was disappointing because the filmmakers and lead actor are gay. Did the same director and writers give us X2? Aren't there rumors then and now that Hugh Jackman is gay? NOBODY CARES! It's completely boring subject and it has nothing to do with tepid reaction to SUPERMAN RETURNS.
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At the Grove after i saw X3 and in comparison, X3 kicked ass...Granted they should've plotted the whole film around The Phoenix and the Cure for X4. Now Superman on the other hand was just ok. In fact it was somewhat of a snoozefest. Its' main flaw was their choice of villains.The whole Lex Luthor thing is tired, if there is a sequel please give Supes a villain worthy of his powers - Doomsday, Darkseid or Lobo, and make it fun like Superman Two w/out the cheese.
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....and your opinion is more mainstream than mine based on what? And I mean, other than the deluded notion that you're more in tune with what the public thinks than I am, that is. You see, my opion is based on the numbers which say that the mainstream public aren't as excited to go watch this movie on a Wednesday inas large numbers as they were for Spiderman ( in which case it was a Wednesday, NOT aided by having a holiday weekend following it, nor falling during the school holidays). So my opinion has some empirical justification. Yours on the other hand is as factual as an ouiji board. 120 Million, after Tuesday. Right. Just say no to drugs buddy. ( but even allowing for that inane supposition, you're basically saying that Superman returns will need a FULL week to accomplish what that "crapfest" X3 did in only 4 days. That's quality for you right there).
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A few people have bemoaned the fact that Louis Lane didn't appear to sustain any brain trauma from having her head bashed around the inside of the airplane. I assure you, she was severely injured. In fact, she's retarded for the whole rest of the movie. I thought that was pretty obvious. Only things missing were bruises and bandaids.
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It should have nothing to do with any kind of "normal" Superman history. For that reason, no one from the show, Kreuk, Michael Rosenblum, etc. should ever be involved in the Superman sequels. I like the show, but come on, Lex and Supes and Lois all knowing each other back in Smallville is just heretical and could never have anything to do with Superman in the future. It would ruin what little "verisimilitude" the character has. I mean, how could no one know that Clark is Superman?!?! It's just ridiculous. But as a "what if?" story, it's fun.
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brandon routh is gay?
for real or is it a rumor?
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Hey K'Mahgra, I think your analogy of the Spidey 1 vs. Supe Returns is a good one, but if I remember correctly, everyone KNEW Spidey was coming out on a Wednesday. I saw Supe Returns on Wednesday because I knew it was out, but I haven't seen any ads / posters/ TV or anything to let the public know. I think the BO will be huge this weekend, but I agree with so many others that word of mouth will not be so kind, unlike Batman Begins or the Spidey films. I guess this works out nicely for the movie company, who plan to put out a 14DVD box set of Supe movies, including this one, later this year. I guess they'll be able to issue it sooner if they like, cuz Superman may be powerful but his BO legs are weak. I love you Sam Raimi and thank you daily. Sam is the one who started the whole "Ohmygod superhero movies are hot property!" trend in tinsel town with S1 in 2002, and so far he's still doing it the best. Plus, he brought Spidey 3 to Cleveland, giving myself and my 7 year old a chance to brush up with legend--watching production and meeting the Webbed One in costume for photographs in perpetuity. I can't wait to see that armored truck chase. I'll have to wear diapers to the theatre, I'll have fluids coming out everywhere.
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Just because Routhe looks good in the costume doesn't make this Superman. Singer and Co. have utterly NO RESPECT for the source material and that's proven in the first five minutes of the film. Here's a spoiler for you, when Krypton's Red sun goes Nova and then blows up Krypton, it's not the way it happened. Nevermind the fact that because Bryan and Co. decided to have the sun nova instead of researching the destruction of Krytpon, they totally screwed themselves out of any further expansion. Since the nova would have destroyed everything else in this system. Now there is no Argos Planet (if you went that route) No more Argos City (if you went there) so essentially, there is no chance in hell of bringing Supergirl into the mix, or any other character for that matter. If someone had simply read a comic or even going to wikipedia and done some reasearch... maybe. Maybe, this might have been a Superman Movie, but this movie was so wrong from the beginning, that there was nothing that could save it. Not even the real Superman. It's CRAP! I have never been so angry after watching a movie as I have after watching this. Oh, and for those of you who have no idea how Krypton was destroyed, go read it here. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krypton_%28planet%29 ) See how easy that is? At least when Spiderman got his powers in the film he got them the way he was supposed to. God there is so much wrong with this movie... oh and if Superman Returns does break 120 Million by Tuesday (it's sixth day) then good for it, but I seriously doubt it. This movie is just not good enough.
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to not know this movie was coming out on Wednesday. They changed the release date a month back, you think people read teaser posters that carefully? They've been promoting this movie on every TV show they can find. Reviews, very good reviews, were everywhere. This thing was hyped to death. The Wednesday = bad BO argument also holds no water.
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Seems the major complaints I've seen could have been made by reading a 2 sentence synopsis of the plot and looking at the cast list. You guys knew Lex would be the villain. You guys knew Superman was away after Krypton for five years. You knew Lois had a kid. You knew Bryan Singer and co. were making it. ---How can you guys complain about crap most people knew months ago? Have you all been waiting all this time to gripe about something you knew you wouldn't like? If you knew Lex would be 'overused, boring, etc.' ...why'd you go see the movie? God forgive Singer and co. for making an iconic Superman movie. Lex Luthor! how dare they include him in Superman! he has nothing to do with it...right? As for the complainers about plotholes... I guess your used to seeing movies that answer all questions for you and don't ever ask any. Maybe if Paul Walker were superman you guys would dig it more.
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You shouldn't talk about things you don't know anything about. Sure, Smallville is different but it's better than this film. If anything these films should be considered elseworlds stories. I agree Lois shouldn't have appeared in Smallville, but according to the DC comic Superman: Birthright; Lex and Clark did know each other, and according to DC Comics, this story is their latest cannon for the Superman story. Read it, it would have made a far better movie than this lame story did.
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was because it had two previously successful films that had already imbedded themselves in pop culture. Everybody was hyped for the storyline to be resolved, everyone was hyped for the characters, and everyone was hyped because of memorial day weekend. Same thing happened to Spiderman 2, X-men 2, the star wars movies, The Lost World, and yadda yadda yadda. It has nothing to do with the judgement of the movie thats being viewed so much as the general reaction to the PREVIOUS movies. However, Xmen 3 had a HUMONGOUS dropoff the week after, which seems to be an indicator that the movie was less well received by the public. The fact is that when it comes to a non sequel tentpole film, if well reviewed, is only going to debut with roughly 140 million during its first week. And make no mistake, SR was the 1st film in a new series (a new cast, director, and 20 year gap since the last film makes it a 1st film in my book). Its an untried property and the only people who will see it during its opening weekend days will mostly be supe fans, not the general movie going populace. Everybody on this site, and I mean everybody, who is bringing up wedensday-thursday box office numbers needs to quit jumping the gun, and wait a few weeks before judging this movie a commercial failure or success. There are far too many factors that have to occur before anyone can make a judgement call. So sit back, relax, and bitch about the film, but dont bitch about something you have NO WAY of predicting. Yes, I understand a lot of TBers are bloodthirsty due to AICN's shilling and proselytizing, but all you guys are doing is masturbatory debating--no one is going to be convinced either way due to insufficient evidence. Yeesh, I think I need to change my User ID to Babysitter2u.
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Am I the only one that wants the kid to die. I mean, come on, he deserves it. And wouldn't it be cool to see Bizarro on screen. That whole new krypton thing could be Bizarro World. A little bit of earth, a little bit of krypton, and you get Bizarro World. I can't be alone in this interest.
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Sorry I keep posting, but this is a good TB. They should have called the movie "Cyclops Returns" because Mardsen's character is the one and only true hero here, a dedicated working family guy that Lois isn't being completely honest with (about her devotion to Supes, I know she didn't know about the kid), and Cyclops helps bail Supes out of trouble. Hell, with blue contacts he mighta been a good Supe. As cyclops, he wore glasses or a visor all the time. Few would have noticed a resemblance. Also, I think the kid (what WAS his name, anyway?) should have bonded more with Clark, to emphasize his humanity, rather than taking a shine to Supes, which is the obvious thing a kid would do (but most kids do NOT have access to Clark). It woulda built nicely on the kid seeing the resemblance between the two. Plus it would have added more to the unsaid-until-the-end secret that this is Clark's kid as well as it is Supe's kid. And he should have said something like, "You banged my mom." I think in the sequel, if there is one, this kid should hurl more musical instruments and kill, yes KILL more bad guys. It would be a hell of a lot more interesting than what his dad did in this movie, which is apprehend a couple bank robbers (Luthor got away, even if trapped). Maybe give the kid some kind of mental illness, make him snap when he sees bad guys, and his dad has to hold him back from friggin' killing them.
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Ok...I just saw SR, and I have to say the movie was great! I was raised on the Donner films like a-lot of the rest of you. One thing that might have made this film better for me though is I got to see it with my 5 year old son...Sitting in the theater and watching his face light up when you see Superman for the first time brought back great memories for me.From the opening score to the final seconds my son was captivated and so was I. I was seeing this movie through the eyes of a child for what it was. Magic. For 2 hrs and 35 minuets my son was Superman. He flew with him, fought with him, saved lives with him. He cried when Supes was taking a beating, and cheered when he saved the day. Ok so a-lot of the Romance was lost on him, and he didn't care that Superman had gone for 5 years, heck he even liked the kid. When we left the Movie he put his little hand inside mine, just like I did with my father when I was a boy, and he said, "Daddy, you get to be Superman and I'm Superboy...ok" So whatever I might have thought about the plot, the homage to Superman I, was lost. All I know is that for my son and countless other little boys and girls, they have a hero they can love again, Superman is back for them and he will be there favorite hero...at least until Spidey comes back for round 3...
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But that's just IT, kirtrik, don't kill the kid--use him for something neat. Make the next movie about teenage Superson, who is going through adolesence and because of his humanity he's prone to moodiness and teen tantrums. Have him WANT to hurt bad guys in a way his father never did. How cool would a movie be where Superman has to deal with a Superson who does NOT share his otherwordly moral perfection and restraint? A Superson who sooner or later is gonna discover--or be told--the truth about his origin, and BOY would that piss me off and make me resent Pops for flying off for five years, then when he comes back he still doesn't want to own up to his paternity (even though it's probably best that Cyclops be the kids public stepfather). It's Superman vs. Superpissedteen.
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Good work Brandon, you fucking NAILED IT! fuck all you haters!
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yeah. like this...http://tinyurl.com/lw69d
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I didn't compare Smallville to this movie. I just said that I feel Smallville is an alternate universe type of thing. Who dosen't think that? There's already enough stretching the imagination with these things that seeing Smallville cast members in this story would have really been odd. If anything, both the movie and the the show Smallville are Else Worlds. Please, calm down.
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I didn't compare Smallville to this movie. I just said that I feel Smallville is an alternate universe type of thing. Who dosen't think that? There's already enough stretching the imagination with these things that seeing Smallville cast members in this story would have really been odd. If anything, both the movie and the the show Smallville are Else Worlds. Please, calm down.
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Tom Rothman is fucking King of the World right now.
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I have no idea why that posted twice. But I guess it's because I'm that adamant about what I said.
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I think the Hulk was worse since we actually walked out. However Superman Returns is a much bigger disappointment in my book. Sam Raimi has absolutely nothing to fear from singer anymore
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Superman 1-2 - Really Liked
Superman Returns - Loved
X1 - Really Liked
X2 - Really Loved
X3 - Really Hated
Spiderman 1-2 - Disliked
Incredibles - Really Loved
Hulk - Really Disliked
Batman 1-2 - Liked
Batman 3 - Loved
Batman 4 - Really Hated
Batman Begins - Liked
Catwoman - ... lol
Blade 1-3 - Really Disliked
Hellboy - Disliked
Daredevil - Hated
Elektra - Hated
Fantastic Four - Hated
V for Vendetta - Really Loved
The Crow - Loved
Flash Gordon - Woooo!
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ok most of those came out looking wrong... looks like i liked catwoman
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There have been 8000+ yahoo user reviews, and they have graded the film a B+. Even if one out of every ten users thought it was the abomination that you did, the grade would be much lower. 120 mil is a modest estimate for the box office carnage that Supe will reap this long holiday weekend. By the way, Spidey 1 opened on a Friday. It was Spidey 2 that had the 40 mil opening Wednesday. After people see Singer's vision of Supe, I'm sure the next Supe movie will have a bigger opening day, just like Spidey. Sequels tend to open better in general, anyway, because there is more hype surrounding them.
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At its current pace, SR will earn about $85-$90 million for the first five days. Gitesh Pandya, very solid BO analyst at www.boxofficeguru.com had predicted about $135 million for the same period. That's a deficit of about $45-$50 million, folks. The Wed-Thurs drop was steeper than that of Batman Begins also. WB is full blown crisis mode...everything is riding on international ticket sales for profitability.
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And Batman Begins is overrated. I like it, thought it was the best of the lot but I have little desire to see it again, unlike the first two Spidey's and X's. I'd actually put the first Matrix out there as one of the best superhero movies. It may not be based on a comic, but then I can't really identify with wanting to shoot webs out of my wrist. Neo was a modern day superhero whereas Superman will always seem childish (even when I was five watching Supes 1, I had trouble with his outfit magically transforming). The story of Superman needs a complete, radical reboot. Even Smallville pays too much homage to the Donner movies.
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would be so great that domestic wouldn't matter until I remembered that Batman Begins actually made less money internationally than domestically. Yikes.
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I saw it with my 5 year old, too, and I completely see where you're coming from. He enjoyed, it, too and it was great watching the movie through a child's eyes. I might try to talk him into seeing it again...
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Support this film! We need more Superman on film. It's awesome potential for movie fun. This particular movie just isn't fun enough. I bet that if it's seen as too romanticized, the all powerful word of the American macho male mouth won't be very good. (The rednecks in Atlanta broadcast media are sure shrugging it off) I believe, that like Kong, the filmmaker just over romanticized Superman. (Although Kong didn't sink I bet a studio thinks twice before handing Jackson et al 200,000,000.00)
If men (Dads, Husbands, Boyfriends, Brothers) aren't very interested, fewer families and dates will deal with a three plus hour movie experience (for my 6:45 viewing I got to the theater at 6:15 and walked out of the theater at 9:20, then add travel time.) that can end up costing a family of four $60.00. A whole lot fewer folks will go and few will go more than once. Titanic has been the only exception to this rule that I know of and I think that movie was one of the only movies in history where female viewers flexed their muscles so mightily. Men were also interested in the historical aspect and the whole Titanic enigma.
Anyway, let's hope I'm wrong or we get more X3 and Fantastic Four until the genre just burns out.
By the way why have filmmakers interpreted that when we say we want a good movie that means somber, angst ridden and amorous. For this genre I think we mean Indiana Jones, Star Wars IV, Jaws I, Aliens not Casablanca or The Way We Were. -
WB has already had one enormously expensive flop this summer (Poseidon). Now they have a movie that cost 2x as much doing meh-business. WB does not just have $300 million lying around to make these movies. Movies are produced via loans...loans that need to be paid and are accumulating interest. WB is deep in the red for the year and this slow-start BO for Superman is bad news and lack of word-of-mouth is making it worse. WB will have to release the DVD before the end of the year if they don't want to be in debt for the year. So yeah, it's gonna be hard for Supes to turn a profit and Poseidon has made WB's position downright untenable. Is all that Superman's fault? No, but clearly the company itself is in crisis mode and heads will roll.
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http://www.boxofficeguru.com/. The steepest drop-off for a Wednesday debuting movie. Er.....and some deluded talkbackers are talking about "box office carnage" that this movie will reap. Sad. Really. Unless it makes the kind of money that even Spiderman II couldn't even dream of, between Friday and Sunday, it's headed for the $80-90million range for the 5 day period. Which, for an overhyped over-marketed $260 million blimp of a movie, is a solid disappointment. Also considering Batman Begins made even less money overseas than domestically, thoseof you hoping that it will make up most of its cost internationally are also obviously, out to lunch. Those Yahoo users best get off their butts and get to the theatre to help this solid "B+" movie "make back its money and then some".......
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a lot of money to make a good Superman film. You have to create a great character and have a good story. Of course money helps on the effects side, but they don't stand on their own. The two directors that did the last Harry Potter films did an excellent job, and that's because they brought some creativity to the table and enhanced what was already there by being respectful. I give Singer credit for polish and composition, but he screwed up where it counts: on creativity, character and story. He, literally, rehashed every single action sequence from the Donner films. Can you believe that? In a Superman film? I mean, give us something we HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE.
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It retained 52% of its business.
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Look at Shrek 2, that thing was fucking huge and insanely anticipated. 11 million opening day. I still think this will do big business, probably break even domestically, maybe a little more. And considering what it cost, that's damn good. What's worst case over the next few days? 15 million each day through monday or tuesday? Considering this is more like a fresh start than a sequel, I think the legs will be decent, probably comparable to last year's batman (and better than WOTW, this will go over much better with general audiences). It's funny that people are talking about if the movie is "gay"...really, it's that this movie will probably really appeal to women, it's like a chick flick with huge action sequences. Financially, I don't see that as really a bad thing.
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empty - all flash and no substance. You know what is great about comic books? They engage your mind - make you participate in the story. A good movie does this as well, by not revealing everything, but engaging you and staying one step ahead. Not in a contrived way, but just by good editing, story and characterization. I think Spider-Man 2 was best at this, followed by Batman Begins and then X-2.
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Sorry. People were buzzing about Batman as everyone exited the theater, discussing how much they liked it. On the way out of Superman Returns, all you could hear was yawning.
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.......still the steepest drop-off for a Wednesday opener by about 5-6%
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have a strong reaction to the film. A couple of loudmouths were complaining the whole time about the Christian subtext behind me. The geek squad cheered and tried to get everyone going, but it didn't take.
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I want you people to pause for a moment, gather yourself, cast a cold, hard, clinical and sterile eye upon yourselves, and consider VERY carefully what you have become.
When someone can cast vitriolic rhetoric towards Superman, you are dead inside, lack joy, have no fire, and are perfectly indicative of this cold, sterile, all logic no wisdom or magic society.
You people are painful, absolutely painful, and you should genuinely be ashamed of yourselves.
Anyone , ANYONE that attacks this film, simply doesnt like Superman or what the character represents. The film has come and gone now, stop crying and go stick Wolverines claws up your ass or suck off Batman pricks.
People that liked this film are in denial?? Denial of what? Of not being a fucking social pariah with every ounce of joy and childhood fondness sucked out of us?
I tell you what, the screening I went to said it all for me, the little kid sat wide eyed with their jaws slacked open everytime Superman made an appearance, and THATS what it's all fucking about.
This movie to that generation will be what Donner's film was to mine.
You old fucking coot acting mother fuckers. Same with Star Wars, wait until this fucking ARMADA of kids matures and starts posting you short-sighted cocksuckers. Any peice of shit that has the audacity to "intellectualize" Superman can rip out their lifeless fucking hearts and I'll gladly shit on it. Because I can unequivocally assure you, your faux intellectualism merely serves to embarass and further taint your uninspired dead soul. FUCK YOU people. -
yaaaaawnity yawn yawn yaaaaaaaaaaawn.....
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"what youve become"...another shakespearean bitter gnashing of teeth "preserve the child inside us" soliloquy.. die doucheman die!!! oh if only that were said in iambic pentameter with Baroque mandolins..Fuck thee alsoeth!
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You two fuckers are overdue on your daily prozac regiment. Spare me the sophist mentality and snap to it fuckers, because your insipid dispositions rub my balls wrong. I suspect you bastards didn't have a childhood, your parents were too busy trying to convince themselves you'd be overachievers. My God how does it feel to be dissapointments in life and be forced to express your little individualism on a message board? Whore baits.
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I've said before that Superman Returns was good , not great. Were there a few plot inconsistencies? Sure. But if you examine the actual plot line it is perfectly consistant within its own rules and pays off the dramatic questions that it raises. Here's the real issue: Brian Singer's movie had two storylines, the main plot and a sub-plot. I think the problem is that the sub-plot was the action adventure Superman vs. Luthor story, and the main plot was a dramatic, emotional one. Specifically, the dramatic question raised for Story 'A' is: After returning from a long absence can Superman find acceptance in human society? This also explains the not very well done hospital scene, where a large crowd gathers for a vigil, concerned for Superman's health, along with the final scene in The Kid's room where Superman repeats Jor-El's line, and finds a role as a potential father figure to The Kid and a protector of humans.
The dramatic question for Story 'B' was: can Superman stop Luthor from implementing his evil plan? You can tell this is the sub-plot because the Luthor story ends before the hospital scene, etc.
Brian Singer made a Superman drama, not a Superman adventure film. I think that's the real problem many on this board have. -
So Fox News is FINALLY accurate with something that they reported...that this film is a flop. Congrats, Fox News. From inaccurate reporting to Captain Obvious faster than a speeding bullet!
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THE Fox news that propogated the notion that the radical right bible thumping neo-fascists were a tad upset that Lucas reminded us a despot was sitting in the White house much like Coruscant? Gosh their clarity of insight amazes me.
I get it now, Superman Returns is a "flop" according to Fox news because of the messianic overtones of the film. That's just grand. Can we please nuke the red states now??
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I'm going to see this at 9:55 tonight but from what I've been hearing I think the legs on thie film will not be as good as Batman Begins... Didn't Begins have a good 2 weeks before another huge movie came out? The reviews on this are way too mixed and people keep telling me they heard it was "long and corny" and will not be seeing it... While Singer probably showed great directional skill, the story he chose was a bad bad idea... They should have restarted the franchise or continue it with an established Superman with no connections to the donner films.... My expectations are lowered but hopefully I'll enjoy the film. Can't wait to rejoin this conversation later tonight ^_^
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I am hoping that that ever-growing continent clump that superman flung into space evolves into Bizarro World. A Bizarro Superman movie would be just what the franchise needed. Let Dini write it.
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Nellie is an elephant. She wears a tu tu. Therefore ALL elephants wear tu tu's right???? It's so obvious isn't it? Your "pretzel logic" doesn't fly
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your blind allegiance and arms are stretching in vain to shelter singer/dougherty/harris/routh, who are paid too much for just giving US average. the gravy train is over for the studios, websitemoguls and their lackeys.(that would be you.) movies have to be astounding now just to break even, because the audience with the web has become smarter. and your purpose to counter it with "THIS IS A SITE FOR LOVING MOVIES! YOU WILL LOVE THIS MOVIE" drivel is futile. lucas said the age of the blockbusters and titanic budgets is over. the first movie i saw in a theatre was superman the movie. that is the gold standard of the genre, and no matter how much singer reveres it, he just came up short.. it happens. but i take personal glee in it because this place was bought and sold on it from the beginnng. and nothing's better than a sellout's comeuppance. and routh is a pussy. he is not superman. he is the latest attempt by the LGBT's to hijack and subvert established cultural icons to their side in a war towards their goal of an amoral brokeback society. that is what this film is helping to do. i am not with that. you are. the problem is you have low standards.
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I was not a Prequel hater, thank you very much. And I am a big Batman Begins supporter, especially since I was posting way-back-when that Ra's Al Ghul was the villain to go for in the "new" Batman films, and Nolan&Goyer obviously agreed. Point is, this movie sucks because it is a rehash of the old films instead of embracing the additions to the Superman mythos that have come since the Donner films debuted. One with half a brain would question the intelligence level of anyone who had a hand in the greenlighting of this script that isn't even equal to some of the worst scripts shot for *Smallville*. If a $300 million film can be shown up by the hit television series on the fourth television network, there's something wrong in the mix. When you pay Kevin Spacey $25 million or so to turn in a performance below what Michael Rosenbaum does weekly for far less, there is something wrong. And when you cast an average looking actress in a lead role instead of someone better looking than her television counterpart, you need to fire the casting director and hire someone who is a heterosexual male (or a lesbian). You also don't fret about the costume and give it more gay appeal. Because that really worked on Batman's suit during the Schumacher years, now didn't it? Batnipples and Superbriefs. Its the same thing. Point is, the script sucked, and in film, you are only as good as your script from a production standpoint. It shouldn't cost $300 million to make something worse than *Daredevil* or *The Hulk* but somehow Warners did. Now I could respect this if it turns out that it was some ultrasecret plot to get TimeWarner to sell off Warner Bros. Pictures, ala how *Waterworld* was a conspiracy by Lew Wasserman(n) & Co. to scare Matsushita into selling Universal Pictures to "anyone else". But I'm afraid that isn't the case here and its just Hollywood vanity/stupidity in action.
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Ok, loved the movie, the but one thing bothers me? WHY does the young Clark (in the flashback) have glasses on? It doesn't make ANY sense? Can anyone explain this one?
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Go watch *Batman Begins* again. Bruce Wayne faked being drunk to drive off the innocents at his party before Ra's Al Ghul destroyed Wayne Manor. Plus, it was Batman starting out. Batman certainly isn't that "smoof" in the holy Frank Miller's *Batman Year One* either. So your criticisms of *Begins* in terms of validating this film are moot.
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He should have started out with the kid reading a newspaper about how superman left and such and then start the movie... more like the donner film. I would have preferred that and get rid of about half of the other references that just took you out of the film. And dont forget the pool table on the yact!
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after all the shit they got for hiring Ratner and X3. Hmm...nope--no conflict of interest there, huh? Fair and balanced!
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Cause I didnt go tuesday night because I was waiting for the first available IMAX showing (they were all sold out). The same thing happened for all the shows during thursday and friday (I had pre-ordered a couple of tickets for me and my boy friday night). I'm just curious, because there are usually only 3 Imax showings a day versus the other normal screens. If you had an Imax available in your hometown, wouldnt you wait for that showing to see the 3D and not the average screen? What do you guys think? Could that be bullshit, or could my question have anything to it?
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This was a wonderful movie with that magical 80s sensibility. You remember ET, Close Encounters, and all those other great 80s films? Well, this was like that. The 90s sucked for movies. And music. But in SUPERMAN RETURNS the 80s live again, and they are magnificent. And I'm not even that big a Superman fan, although of course I really loved the first two films. Those are what movies are all about, just like this. But when I read comics, I prefer things like Hellboy, The Goon, Berserk, Lucifer -- not Supes, not Batman, none of those. But this movie was beautiful. I'm a little concerned about where they're going to go from here, about what villain could possibly stand against Superman in the DonnerSinger Multiverse, but . . . I can't wait to find out. And the creation of the Kid, making Superman more complicated, and the patented Singer love triangle ala X-MEN -- it worked. It made Superman interesting, and conflicted. And the kid looked just like Harry's nephew! (Yes, I live in Austin, I'm not a perv). Anyway, after this movie, I do believe a man can fly. I hope Singer stays with the series, although I will miss him in X-MEN.
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Doubtful, It's simply a mediocre movie that's getting a bad word of mouth.
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were as good as they were because they were based, pretty closely, on their respective novels of the same name. Sure, they had a couple of good directors at the helm, but it helped to have a blueprint written by J.K. Rowling and a really good screenwriter in Steve Kloves.
With exceptions, most of Hollywood still doesn't get it: it's all about story, man. Story, story, story. The audience will remember the story and the characters paired with a good acting performance long after they've forgotten about how a movie looked or a spectacular shot or two. -
JohnGalt06, speaking as someone who lives and works in Hollywood and who likewise has friends actually employed at Warner Bros., it is with a definite smile on my face that I can absolutely, positively, with 100% accuracy say that you're completely full of shit. Trust me, the Warner crowd right now is VERY happy and is popping champagne bottles. Oh, and as for your other declaration that "on the way out of SUPERMAN RETURNS all you could hear was yawning", how fascinating to learn that you possess god-like powers to see into ALL theaters across the nation at once. You know, people like you are actually pretty pitiful. For all your "E=MC2 divided by the square root of day one box office receipts multiplied by drop-offs of particular ethnic and financial group" bullshit calculations that you're quoting -- where you're desperately trying to make yourself look smarter than the obvious 14-watt dim bulb knob that you clearly are -- at the theaters I'VE been at (having seen the movie twice now) not only has the movie been either consistently sold out or packed to near capacity, but the people I've seen have clearly come out jazzed. But nice of you to make a generalized statement for all the world to accept. Too bad everyone with a functioning brain is on to you for being the anti-Superman, looking to stir up trouble troll that you are. The bottom line is that your box office predictions are perfect FOR ME TO POOP ON!
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If the domestic box office tanks for this movie, then its bad news for Warner Bros. Because if the financing structure of this film is similar to the deal on *The Matrix* films, then Warners won't be making much from the international box office. If I am not mistaken, for the Warner films that are produced with Village Roadshow, its pretty much a 50-50 split on the production dollars with Warners getting the U.S. and some other markets while Village Roadshow gets the majority of the international markets. Thus if SR tanks in the U.S. but does well in the rest of the world, Warners still gets screwed. I guess it all depends upon the deal with Legendary Pictures and the other financiers. But I thought Legendary only kicked in $30 million or so more. I dunno. From the sounds of it, Legendary sounds like one of those Enron front companies like "ChewCo" and might just be a way for Warner execs to skim money off the gross to aid in Hollywood's usual "creative accounting" schemes to cheat the Feds out of tax money. I have no proof though and I could be totally wrong on that and I'm willing to accept it. Point is, the international box office won't save this film if it tanks in 'Merica. Might want to start shorting TimeWarner stock. Even more so if Blu-Ray beats HD-DVD and Warners (Warner Home Video) does not receive its share of patent royalties that it and Toshiba currently make off standard DVD.
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who is the better lex, kevin spacey or gene hackman?
I think hackman was better.
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I bought two tickets - and so did a few other of the crazy people that I know. One to see it on Tuesday night at 10 PM (I wanted to see it first WITHOUT the 3D effects) and one to see it tomorrow night in IMAX. I was fairly mixed about it on Tuesday but I had already bought the IMAX ticket so I'm still looking forward to seeing it tomorrow. So who knows, in some cases it may help box-office and tickets are $5 more expensive with Imax anyway. I know what you mean but I can't see people who REALLY want to see it waiting much past the weekend - IMAX or not. And here in NYC they are sandwiching 5 IMAX showing per day with 8, 11, 3, 7, and 11.
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Thank you very much. Your overwhelming knowledge of how Hollywood REALLY works was staggering. And of course, if people were yawning in my theater, they were automatically THRILLED in all others...
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Don't underestimate their numbers. The ladies in the theater seemed quite pleased. They'll tell two friends, and so on. Maybe they dig it more than young men. I'm an older dude and I liked the Donner homage. If the young guys dig Spidey better, that's cool. This one is for more sentimental crowds.
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Yeah man I really did. It created an amazing world (as to the above posters, I loved the new Batmobile, doubters see the freeway chase, - Burton's was good - but this one looked mean and indestructible and almost too powerful like it could exist within the rules of the Goyer/Nolan world and not be and not be something that defined it) and it set a tone that was realistic, dark, and thereby allowed figures like Batman and the Scarecrow to exit within it. It honored the comics without slavish tendencies (which many times has lead to folly) and it created a Bruce Wayne that I could believe behind the mask, thus making Bale's tranformation to Batman both surprising and yet inevitable. A great film. And I still don't know how they will top it - but I look forward to 2008.
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Just FYI, my father, who has been a HUGE superman fan ever since the he first saw the Kirk Allen serials as a boy- is boycotting this film due to the fact that he is highly offended by the "Truth, justice, and all that stuff." fiasco.
I'm inclined to agree with him.
My little brother (who has downs syndrome) is BEGGING me to take him, lol, so we're going to the matinee on Sat. I just hope it doesn't let us down.
P.S.- To Hell with Bryan S., Warner Bros should have BEGGED Alex Ross to have a go at directing this film. I'm talking sloppy, swallowy blow jobs if necessary!
Oh well, peace out! -
... Clancy Brown.
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not the cartoon only the live action movies.
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YIKES....
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Uh, we're JUST hitting the weekend. Thursday is not a big movie night. Lots of time over the 4-day weekend to see this movie.
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Way too many posts. Please create another talkback!!!
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And what's opening this weekend? Devil Wears Prada??? Not much else to see anyway, so Supes will draw a lot more people.
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The @qu@f@g talkback had like 6,000+ posts. This is nuthin. Hell, this ain't even coming close to the X3 talkback yet.
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Dang, well, in that case: Mr. Hackman- hands down.
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SUPERMAN TANKS. More appropriate.
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Ha! Yeah right, who remembers the episode III talkback? Holy Jebus!!
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Irregardles- those that really wanted to see it, the majority of the fans -have already seen it, tuesday, wed. thur. and word of mouth is spreading.
honestly, these numbers are not very good. just calling a spade a spade. -
Ann Hathaway would have made a good Lois. On looks that is, I've actually never seen her act.
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Ok, chill the F out everyone. Must be comcast, then. Damn thing takes forever to load.
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... UNSOCIABLE HAMMER
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...but not much fun. Alex Dupont hit the nail on the head. Nice restart of the franchise, but here's hoping they bring the joy next go around.
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Good laugh though......
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Who the fuck says "jazzed" anymore?! I mean, dont get me wrong, that's a perfectly valid word... for 1987...
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Late 20's or Early 30s. Both LL and CK/SM look like they are in their early and mid 20's. Typical hollywood bullshit to appeal to the youngest possible audience. They probably would have had 18 year olds playing the part if they thought they could get away with it.
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Superman Returns to me is much better than that. If I was going to compare it to anything, I'd compare it to King Kong. Similar to Kong, I only liked but did not love Superman Returns like I expected I would. Both films were created by directors really in love with the original movies and both of them suffered from SERIOUS BLOAT! Though I never quite dozed off like I did in Kong (hey I saw a 10PM show I didn't think the thing was going to go till around 1AM!!!). I think Selma Blair would've made a much better Lois than Kate Bosworth.
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Good point Darth Pookie. Funniest thing I've read all day!
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Can you believe how incredible...
...the acting/casting was?
...Brandon Routh was as Superman?
...Lex's "Anti Fortress of Solitude" was?
...the score was?
...the directing was?
For a minute I thought they were going in the "Legion of Doom" direction with the Anti-Fortress of Solitude thing. Also, did anyone else look for signs of Brainiac's ship during the credits?
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OK, so it's suppose to follow 1 and 2. Fine. They put all this "love" into the details, like superman saying "Swell" and stuff. Fine. But there were so many other facts they got wrong. Fortress of Solitude & Krypton were both crystaline snow white. But in this movie they looked like dirty snow. And in the original movie the space ship was about 1/3 the size that it was in this movie... Did the damn ship grow along with clark? Oh and when kitty dropped the crystals into the water, why didn't they react like every other crystals we saw?
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Yes, I believe everything in the movie "was" crap.
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Ok, so when Luthor gets to the Fortress, we hear Jor-El tell Supes that by the time he "hears this" Jor-El will have been dead for thousands of years. But then Supes, traveling in the original ship he used, makes the trip to Krypton and back in 5 years? Did Singer screw up, or am I missing something?
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The term they want to spoon feed us is "suspension of disbelief", now let's a be good and praise Singer and co for the crap they gave us.
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*all*
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Singer had knowledge of the Donner Superman II edit during production. The entire point about Superman being a hypocrite for telling the President he wont let us down again, only to leave is moot. That particular inconsistency people are having a hernia over won't be relevant once the Donner version is released. Superman having said that to the president is lester footage.
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You wrote: "Thank you very much. Your overwhelming knowledge of how Hollywood REALLY works was staggering." What, you mean in comparison to your brain-dead "I'm making box office predictions based on mathematical equations that I'm pulling out of my ass"? Buddy, I've got news for you -- speaking as someone who's been working out here in Hollywood for years and years, I'm sure I really DO have a better sense of how the industry works than you'll ever possess. Look, here's the bottom line about SUPERMAN's box office receipts: IT'S BEEN 2 FUCKING DAYS. Give your dire predictions about comets colliding into the world a rest already, Mr Sky is Falling Chicken Little. The truth is this movie will have legs. It will CLEARLY play exceedingly strong through the weekend and the next several as well. Yes, POTC2 will open big, but that's a given since OBVIOUSLY people are jazzed by it and looking forward to seeing that, TOO. That's "too" as in people are excited about seeing BOTH. As of next weekend, here's what you'll have: 2 summertime, critic-proof, audience-pleasing hits occupying the multiplexes side by side, making a lot of theater owners very, very happy. People will be buying tickets to see one or the other. Hell, they'll likely be forced into one or the other simply because a particular showing of one or the other will be sold out. SR and POTC2 will help feed each other for a several week period. In the end, we'll just see where SUPERMAN stands in about 4-5 weeks time. I think it'll easily end up north of $200 million domestic, with another $250-$300 internationally. If it ends up at roughly $500 million total (which would be HALF A BILLION dollars in revenue) and that's BEFORE you add in merchandise, DVD sales, cable and first run TV sales and whatever else the studio will be collecting on, trust me, the people at Warner Bros. will NOT be in "crisis mode" as you love to toss out -- they'll be getting fucking promotions and exceedingly nice Christmas bonuses. And I say that as someone with firsthand experience dealing with Warners and having friends who are employed there now. And from talking to them the last day or so, NO ONE is in crisis mode AT ALL. Not even CLOSE. So you can pound that shit right back up your ass. You also wrote "And of course, if people were yawning in my theater, they were automatically THRILLED in all others." Hey, nice stab at irony, too bad it was an utterly pathetic try. You only proved my point entirely by saying that. So let me get this straight: you want to mock me by saying "Oh right! I'm SURE it was the direct OPPOSITE at your theater" as if THAT'S any type of proof or logical statement in fact. Riiiiight, because that makes TOTAL sense (insert mocking Rodney Dangerfield eyeroll here). Look, the bottom line is that you CAN'T prove at all that the response at YOUR theater -- for that matter breaking it down even more, at your particular SHOWING --is the universal reaction taking place at ALL theaters and at ALL showings. That's just you shitting more worthless crap trying to tear the movie down. Besides a few little case studies for you to remember, O' Mr Box Office History. First, TITANIC actually opened far smaller than Fox anticipated, but luckily word of mouth...not to mention a continual stream of teenage girls who fell in love with DiCaprio ala a new age Valentino...kept the film alive to the point that its returns arced slowly upwards week after week, ever growing, thus giving it a slow but steady momentum. Now do I think SUPERMAN will arc that way? Not to TITANIC levels, but I think it will be self-sustaining for a few week period thus giving the movie a healthy return. Second, third and fourth, consider THE PHANTOM MENACE, FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING and HARRY POTTER. After a 20 year wait, fans walked out of PHANTOM disappointed by a sluggish movie and bad word of mouth about it spread instantaneously...but, gee, that didn't exactly hurt it's box office performance, did it? It only ended up fucking NUMBER ONE in the world until TITANIC came along. Same was true with FELLOWSHIP and POTTER. Paralleling your "yawning crowd" showing, I remember coming out of FOTR and POTTER 1 and having to listen to fans pissing and moaning about things that were left out from the books, and thus the movies sucked, the casting was off, this special effect or that one didn't live up to the imagery in the book...yada, yada, yada. But again, gee, those audiences saying "I'm a diehard fan of the book and I thought the movie was a letdown" didn't hurt their box office takes either. In the cases of all of them -- TITANIC, the SW Prequels, the LOTR and POTTER films -- the average moviegoer, the general populace, is what mattered. THEY were the ones who ended up plunking down their dollars and saying "I don't know what some of you are bitching about. I thought it fucking rocked!" So stop your bullshit predictions since they're pointless and utterly full of crap, and let's just see how the movies actually do. Stop trying to make out like you actually know what you're talking about when you clearly don't, and quit trying to be a fucking troll just looking to piss on anyone's enjoyment of SUPERMAN or PIRATES or whatever. You know, miserable fucks like you are what have essentially killed geekdom and the fun that used to exist when any genre movie debuted. Instead of being happy that we HAVE these films to see...instead of just being a geek and ENJOYING them for what they are...of all things you just want to be a fucking armchair ACCOUNTANT to claim what works or doesn't. And that's just sad, man. It's pathetic. In the immortal words of Shatner "Get a life!"
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THAT'S HOW YOU WANT IT, BITCH?! FINE!...can't fuckin' wait to see this at last 4th of "jew-lie" 06!!
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...with even spider-man, war of the worlds, the rings movies, etc. all dropping more than 40 percent on the thursday prior to bouncing back on friday. First dayers take the day or part of the day off, and then the more casual wanna-see-its start going on Friday and Saturday, etc. Lost in all the concern over breaking records and whatever is the fact that Superman is unique among the recent blockbusters in that there a numerous ways a person can get a superman fix or satisfy a child that wants to see superman because of the hype. There are two movies that are not too old and still play good enough to rent. A whole bunch of cartoon episodes, a recent tv series and even a CURRENT hit TV series. Comic fans feel the need to see it right away. but more casual fans can wait. That is less so for something like Pirates, which may exceed even superman this year but is very likely not to have many more new movies competing with superman sequels and reboots in the near and distant future. For more than six decades the guy in the red and blue cape has been the most reliable fictional character of all -- showing up every few years in yet another incarnation, few of which were flops, many of which were solid hits and some of which were full-blown media phenomena. Spider-man's numbers may get passed someday if only because of inflation, but it may be a long time before we see a project with such long-standing pent-up desire to see paid off in such an effective way. Had this superman film been the first comic film in ages, or even fhe first first supe in ages, the numbers would be more shockingly high. As it is this is a solid performer that could have been better, but you could say the same for most of the tentpole films, including last year's batman.
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Bryan Singer is the Joel Schumacher of the Superman mythos.
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Superman Returns is a VERY COOL movie, hopefully Bryan Singer will do JUSTICE LEAGUE next -> http://groups.msn.com/HEROESCOMICS/justiceleague.msnw
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Right. So simply because I used a word like "jazzed" I'm a Warner Bros. plant? Darth, ever occur to you that since it's a "circa 1987 word" (as you put it) that I was simply BORN prior to that year and thus it became part of my particular vocabulary and thus I'm simply older than you? What are you, like, a clueless 18 year old who thinks he's the amazing Karnak who can tell "who" people are based on what they said? Nice faulty logic there, boys. You've shown I'm older than you, but exactly HOW would that make me a plant? Oh, that's right -- that comes straight out of the AICN Talkback Debate Manual. It's rule Numbers 1, 2 AND 3 just for extra emphasis. It reads, "Whenever someone supports a movie that you didn't necessarily like, they MUST be a studio plant." So glad you boys are thinking for yourselves. Sheesh (that would be "sheesh" circa 1981) if this is an indication of the brain power at work here, I weep for the current generation...
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why did singer use "the passion of the spiderman/train climax" from spiderman 2? and the batman begins ending? why is the kid asthmatic and wheezy? why does the thug play piano with the kid? why does olsen make a cake for routh before knowing WHEN he comes back? why aren't triumph poops'screenplays sold yet? why bother...?
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Wow. The variety of opinions on this movie is amazing. I'm loving the "good" back and forth that is happening. I for one thought the movie was a real let down. Can somebody, who is not a fanboy or name-caller please try to explain what you saw in the film that worked for you? The only thing I truly liked was Spacey as Luthor. Oh, and does anybody think that maybe the "lower than expected" b.o. is due to comic book movie burn out by the audience? Maybe most audience members can take only 1 super hero film about every 3-6 months.
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That sounds good.
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The kid was wearing Aquaman pajamas when pappa-El said his super goodnight.
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Try and be specific. If you liked the romance, what specifically about that romance did you like. Acting? What about it was so great? Script? How did the plot holes affect your experience?
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mistyped aquaman during the search. Sorry for the repeat info.
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Some of you people should rent superman 1 and 2 to see how a superman movie needs to be made and directed. No epic superman movie here with S.returns.
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lex and superman had a short screen time in this movie. Which was disappointing. They needed to spend more time on lex and supes problematic relationship.
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Supes vs Luthor should always be the central theme to a Supes vs Luthor movie. Lois is really just a complication for Supes in defeating Luthor. His entire charcter is about being the ultimate boy scout and policeman. Since Luthor is the antithesis of this, Luthor is always the main conflict, with Supes' feelings as an obstacle.
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Alright, first up, I don't believe I ever used the word "plant" in reference to you. Please try and pay attention. Second of all, I also never claimed to "not like" the film. Please explain to me precisely how it is that I could not like a movie that I HAVEN'T EVEN FUCKING SEEN YET! I believe my exact quote was "I just hope it doesn't let us down.". Please, do all us talkbackers a favor and try to at least read the posts that you feel the need to respond to, when you faill to do such, it just makes you look like a cunt. Oh, afterthought, I just happen to be in the "business" as well, my friend- and while I won't pretend to get into the proverbial "pissing contest" with you over who has more contacts, pull, prestige, etc.,- just do everyone here a favor and don't pretend to have more clout in the industry than we both know you do. It's just pathetic. Apologies to all in the forum, where were we now? Oh yeah, tmanx, spot on with the Sups 1 & 2 recommendations!
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Why the hell do all you geeks go to movies at 10PM? I'm man enough to go during matinee time, 1 cause I'm not afraid to be seen during the day and 2 cause I'm a cheap bastard. It also helps me to know if I like the movie or am being influenced by stupid people who laugh at the wrong time or cheer for cheering sake. Gawd I wanted to punch that guy(disregaurd this sentence). Let people know how a movie is; if you fucking hated stop people before they enter and tell them it sucks. I stopped numerous people from seeing that abomination Hulk. If it's good say that 2 quit bitchin online bitch at the line. I wish someone would have told me to stay away from Batman and Robin but NOOOO. Dicks like you people just left the theater went home and typed on your little forums how much it sucked balls.
Coincidently SUPERMAN HAS RETURNED! And he was a little boring I blame Singer. -
Amen to the matinee! Beatuiful way to see a film without having to fully commit to supporting a piece of cinema that could go either way. I'll be holding my head high at the matinee promptly tomorrow!!
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Well, here is my explination. When Ka-El was a baby the ship he was in was just one to get him to earth, no real hurry. Plus by the time Clark grew up it would have been thousands of years in Krypton Time. When Clark goes back to Krypton and is absent for 5 EARTH YEARS it might actually be more like thousands of Kryptonian years. I never read the comics but that is the explination that I came up with.
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Yah the whole movie should've been about scenes with superman and lex! They could fight over who gets the Glengarry leads,.. or they could do quid-pro-quo... or stroll through paris before sunset and talk life. That would've been great!
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makes 100x more sense than the entire plotline of the Fantistic 4!
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Wild guess here, but I assume that people were informed of Clark coming back to the Daily Planet before he actually came back. The goon played the piano with Jason because he was bored and because he had no reason to be physically revulsed by the kid. Jason was asthmatic because, as demonstrated when Luthor waved the kryptonite in front of his face, he doesn't take exclusively after his father in the powers department. As for why it recycled the 'Batman Begins' ending? You mean that no superhero movies are ever allowed to end with a conversation again ('Superman Returns' began filming before 'Batman Begins' even came out, by the way; but I'm sure Singer and Co will hide "the original ending" that they replaced from the one they stole from 'Batman Begins' as part of their gay, Zionist conspiracy)? Better question: why do you think superficial questions like those prove anything substantial about the movie?
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I was across town and could sit in traffic to get home at 7, or see the movie, and zoom home in no traffic to get home at 8pm. I hate seeing movies alone, but I hate waiting in traffic even more.
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You miss the point. It shouldn't be ALL Lex and Supes, but that is the central conflict. Everything else should serve this conflict. By making Lois & Supes' love the central conflict, you take all the teeth out of Lex and make him a minor irritation. Comic book stories are simple for the most part: the heo must stop the bad guy. Everything else serves this end of the story. That's not saying that the subplots can't be interesting or even substantial. Iit's just basic drama.
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I am guessing it's a reference, but I still don't get it. Anyhow, him being this cut-throat thug who would kill the mommy after showing he was sophisticated enough to play piano with the kid probably made him the most intersting character in the whole movie.
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No offense, but don't you think you should hold the negative side to the same standards? You're saying people have to prove it's good, but there's nothing wrong with people coming on here and saying "Wow that sucked worse than HULK want money back am hungry"? Even you basically (unless I missed one of your posts) just came on here and said everything about the movie was bad except Luthor. Care to elaborate? If you didn't like the romance, why didn't you like it? If you thought the script sucked, what about it sucked? Try to explain how the plot holes were so annoying that you couldn't manage to enjoy the movie in spite of them. Etc.
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I don't know really understand why others "hate" it, but this was a damn solid movie. Can't wait to see the final tally on Wednesday.
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We saw him on the boat and in the crystal building test scene. But by the time Luthor has to escape from the boat, I don't recall seeing him afterwards on the island, or was he there and got squashed? By the way, am I the only one who thought the thugs getting squashed was just a tad bit morbid?
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...was indeed one of the ones squashed on New Krypton or whatever it was called. I was a little disappointed in his role, by the way. Seeing as he's relatively famous (or maybe only in that cult sorta way), I thought he'd at least have a speaking part. As it is, you could have put anyone in that role and I honestly don't think it would have made a difference.
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many of you need to seriously analyze your position as a movie lover. When a film like Fantastic Four can make lots of money, and a film like Superman Returns may not. Superman Returns may have issues, every film does, but many of you guys act like it's a uwe boll film. Can you at least say something positive? something that worked maybe instead of bashing a film that really honestly tried to give you all something unique ???
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I am gussing that he had a bunch of his lines on the cutting room floor. Considering his name came up in the opening credits, which was almost certainly included out of contractual obligation however whatever extended role he had was cut from the finished version. Kitty was not much better than Otis with tits. "You mean people are going to die??" - Well shit bitch, don't you know about how this asshole you're with wanted to sink the west coast in his last land scheme? I would have liked Kitty 10x better if she was a cold hearted bitch who was Lex's equal.
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......does not apply to this movie ( partly because it really isn't a paradox since time-dilation has since been conclusivelyproven to actually occur) due to the fact that while the Jor-El footage talking about thousands of years having passed since Krypton was destroyed was originally taken from Superman I - which, on many levels was sound as far as the laws of relativistic physics are concerned - this movie completely throws Einsteinian physics, and in fact basic logic, in general, out of the window in its plot considerations. In Superman I the journey from Krypton to Earth for an infant Kal-El took roughly 5-6 years travel time ( from his perspective in the travel capsule,) and for the sake of logical consistency we have to assume he was travelling at much faster than light-speed to make the cross-Universe journey (passing a distance covered by the "28 known Galaxies" that Jor-El talks about in Superman I as he's growing up in the capsule, along the way) feasible for Kal-El to age just about 5-6 years. And at this likely travel speed, based on the principle of time-dilation, it would only be consistent that thousands of years ( if not hundreds of thousands of years, depending on how fast he was travelling) would have passed for relatively stationary points of refrence both on Earth and on Krypton. In other words Kal-El began his journey long before the dawn of human civilization on earth here and probably long long before the extinction of the dinosaurs. ( which would ultimately make the only glaring error from Superman I, in this regard, the comment his birth mother makes to Jor-El regarding how humans were backward; humans likely never existed as established societies or anything other than apes at that time just before Krypton was destroyed). In fact as I mentioned in another talkback, time-dilation could even be used to explain how Superman "turns" back time with his infamous "spinning round the world" flight at the end of the movie: they actually seemed to have science consultants working on Superman I who knew their stuff. On the other hand, in Superman Returns all that is thrown out of the window when Clark makes a 5 year journey ( which I can only assume is 2.5 years both ways; more on that) to and from Krypton and lo and behold despite the fact that he would have to have been travelling at way way way faster than light speeds this time around again, we find that 5 years have passed for both Clark as well as the stationary point of reference ( for the people here on earth). This can simply never happen in this nor any other Universe. Unless the journey to Krypton, from Superman's perspective, took a fraction of a second or a couple of seconds at most ( at which point I hate to think at what speed he was travelling, much less what happens to the laws of physics at those "ludicrous" speeds, as they would say in Spaceballs), while only 5 years passed on earth. Remember that this is a journey covering a distance of at least 28 galaxies, which are likewise distanced that much farther apart from each other. so the short answer is no, none of Einstein's predictions based on the theories of relativity ( which is referred to by Jor-El in Superman I, btw, before anyone starts accusing me of introducing real-world science to the movie) nor our own observations based on what we know to be fact from time-dilation experiments apply; simply because the proposition ( of a journey of that length to Krypton, with the times involved for both moving and stationary points of reference) in this movie is simply ridiculous, not just in the real world but even in the comicbook Universe and in Sci-Fi in general. The only way they could have soundly explained this brain-freeze in scriptwriting would have been if it had been stated that Superman had to pass through a wormhole to get around the pitfalls of faster-than light travel with Relativity-based physics. But nothing of the sort is mentioned in the movie, and basically this is just one of many ludicrous logic holes, inconsistencies and contradictions that the movie has.
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Lots of people seem to be posting about Hulk and X3 and someone even posed the question 'which was worse': Superman Returns or Hulk. For me, it's a tough call. I like to rate movies on the five-star scale and, interestingly enough, I gave each Hulk, X3, and now Superman Returns a measly two stars each. So, clearly, I think they're all sitting somewhere around the same level of crappiness. But of course, they all fail for different reasons and it's not easy to simply single one out as the WORST of the three. If I had to pick one, I'd probably go with X3, because, quite simply, of the three movies, that's the one I would least like to sit through a second time. But it's damn close. Each movie has something I like (be it the wacky editing of Hulk, the fantastic photography and effects work of Superman, or the fact that Shadowcat actually gets more than two seconds of screentime in X3), but each one of them ultimately sucks.
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Singer didn't explain all that because if he did, people like you would have no way to vent your scientific gablygook
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Most of what I thought was wrong has been stated by many others, but, like the people who loved the film, sometimes it's hard to wade through the muck to find something substantial. As stated above, I think one of the central problems is that Luthor isn't really the central conflict, but an obstacle for Superman and Lois to overcome. By making the central theme a love story, you essentially take away the central theme of Superman: that he is the ultimate moral person. The Christ comparisons are good because Superman is tempted by what the world has to offer. He could be the football star, or the ultimate lover. But he sacrifices himself for a greater morality and for man kind. By doing the "peeping tom" thing and by giving him a child, he is essentially another flawed person and not the super hero we know from the Reeves' era. In the first "Superman", his anger over Lois' death is essentially anger at not being able to save the world. By expressing this through Lois' death, it makes the feeling very personal, to Superman as well as the audience. "Superman 2" is "The Temptation of Superman", where he must choose his destiny. In "Returns" all of this theme is taken away by giving him a child. Yes, that could happen in real life, but in Superman-world it shouldn't. His deep seeded sense of morality, placed there by both fathers, would probably force him to take responsibility for the child, and affect his postion as Superman. Maybe he'd quit being Superman, tell Lois everything, and try and be a good father. Whatever he would do, he would do SOMETHING. The script also suffered from many plot holes, many that have already been pointed out. There also could have been more building of the characters. Okay, Lois now has a kid and a fiance, but doesn't this make it harder for her to be a reporter? Can't we be given a sense of the emotion and events of the past 5 years? And shouldn't she be angrier at Superman? Her NOT flying with him would have been a much better conflict. Superman should have had to really work to earn back Lois' trust, not just a quick fly around the block. And didn't her article have any effect on the population? They welcome Superman back with open arms. I thought, according to Lois' "Pulitzer Prize" commentary that the world didn't need him? Any way, I could write more and more. That's enough for now. Later.
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I remember reading a review on rotten tomatoes who gave superman a bad review stating that nothing is duller than a hero with no flaws.
Why doesn't anybody like the idea of him having a child. he always felt alone , he was the last kryptonian and this overwhelming feeling was enough for him to desperately travel to find anybody like him. Now he has a son. So he didn't stay and decide to be a family man, He isn't a homewrecker and left the decision for lois lane to make.
bob...if a woman is still in love with you, if you left that much of an impression, then it takes very little to win them back unless what you did was really fucked up like sleep with her sister.
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Shrek 2 did 20 mil on it's opening Weds and Thurs then had a 100 mil weekend and a 400 mil domestic run.
SR is at 89% (users) on Rotten Tomatoes and B+ (with damn 8900 reviews) on Yahoo. That's pretty good. I'll see it again this weekend and sit farther back this time. -
By far, SR is the worst. I actually liked Ang Lee's directorial style for Hulk (with the comic book like panels). I was however dissapointed with the absorbing man story and how it felt tacked on at the end. F4 was more a kids story I believe. It was pretty good escapist fun. It didn't try to be overly deep and explore internal conflicts (except for The Thing's story line). It had a basic bad guy, simple three-way love triangle, and a bit of internal conflict in the team (Toch & Thing). X3 I think the undeerlying allegory about people who are different from society and embracing diversity was well handled and overall I liked the movie, even if I'm not terribly happy with who they killed off and why. Superman Returns however wants to be this great epic complex movie and since that is what they aspired to, they failed miserably at it. Taking away "The American Way" (although superman spying on innocent civilians I suppose would still be the American way), superman being the creepy self-conscious stalker guy, the kid angle, the horrificly lame land plot... on and did I mention the pool table on a boat. Once people start talking about it, and see it again on DVD, this will be come much less well regarded.
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Shrek 2 did 20 mil on it's opening Weds and Thurs then had a 100 mil weekend and a 400 mil domestic run.
SR is at 89% (users) on Rotten Tomatoes and B+ (with damn 8900 reviews) on Yahoo. That's pretty good. I'll see it again this weekend and sit farther back this time. -
It also got pretty good initial reviews from the masses of asses who gawked at the special effects. However eventually most people realized what an awfull piece of crap it and it's counterpart ReMarketed are.
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........did you come up with it on your own? Just because you have limited cerebral capacity to understand it, doesn't mean you have to call it 'gablygook'. Try picking up a book or two sometime (not necesarly read them, just pick them up, who knows you mught learn a thing or 2 via osmosis or something). Better yet, watch Superman I again, only this time, try not leaving your brain at the door and pay attention to some of the stuff Jor-El talks about.
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"Superman ReTale" "Superman Rehashes" "Superman Regugitates" "Superman ReMarketed" "Superman Reeks"
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If you want a flawed hero then see "Batman Begins" or "Spider-Man". The heart of "Spider-Man" IS the flaws. The main theme could be described as, "How does a normal guy handle being a super hero?" Superman is the most unique hero (at least in the movies) in that he lacks these flaws. The theme of "Superman 2" was just the opposite of "Spider-Man": "How does a super hero handle being a normal guy?" With Reeve's Superman we got a super hero who was essentially flawless. He does the right thing, he does it with a smile, and he doesn't really judge any one. He is the ideal "Cold War" American. Maybe today, in this more cynical atmosphere, truth, justice and the American way just don't fit anymore. But if that's true, then perhaps Superman doesn't really fit. Perhaps he is just a remnant of a simpler time, when right and wrong seemed clearer.
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...... are you saying that when Kal-El arrived on Earth he was a 3 year old? He looked a lot older to me. He looked at least 5 or 6 years old ( remember the scene of him lifiting the car?), and I distinctly rememder him beign placed in the capsule by his mother when he was no more than 8-9 months old. So how that adds up to 2 years, for a 2 year journey, to you is completely mind-boggling.
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You must be talking about the sqeaky pre-pubescent voice acting of tobey maguire.
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No one ever said it was Superman's son. You never saw him throw/push the piano. They wouldn't have the kid kill a bad guy, even if it was an accident. He never did anything "super" at all.
The sequel will say Lois adopted the kid from her drug addict sister and will give us an explanation for the paino crushing the henchman. -
Eating a hot dog while police cars go zooming thattaway comes to mind. I don't get why fanboys hate Tobey Maguire so much, but this isn't a debate I feel like leaping into, so whatever. Maguire sucks, Topher Grace for Spider-Man, yadda yadda.
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They never really come out and say the child is Superman's. And we don't see him throw the piano. That would explain the lack of reaction to kryptonite and his asthma. Besides, Lois is not supposed to remember sleeping with Superman, right? So why would she EVER suspect that he is Superman's son? Hmmmm...
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so explain why routh thinks the kid is his son
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I think youse guys are taking the whole "unofficial sequel" thing the wrong way. I don't think 'Superman' and 'Superman II' are supposed to be canon for 'Superman Returns;' I think elements of those movies are supposed to be an assumed part of Superman's past. So there wasn't necessarily a General Zod, or a Phantom Zone, or a tear-away plastic shield that you can rip off your chest and throw at bad guys, and cetera. So maybe Superman and Lois just bumped uglies during one of their "interviews." Which isn't to say that this movie does a good or even adequate job of setting up its backstory, because it doesn't. Because... she has no idea that Clark is Superman, yet she knows she had sex with Superman, even though she didn't seem to know the kid was super-powered until he decided to pick up a piano and throw it, and... yeah. The comment to Lex about having been to the Fortress of Solitude before was especially puzzling. It's hard to tell which elements were borrowed from the first two movies and which weren't, and the ones that weren't are never really explained.
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mainly because there was a lot of potential, wasted.
It was inconsistent, to say the least: some scenes were wonderful, some were garbage. For example, the credits sequence was great, it took be back to when I first saw the original, then right into the Luthor deathbed con artist garbage. All of the actors were good but they had nothing good to work with. Routh was good but I never bought him as Superman. The plot was lame, the characterization was just wrong: Superman would not act like this, including killing Luthor's henchmen. And the kid,..what was Singer and his writers thinking?
Was this a sequel? Was this a remake? It was like both and neither, it was a mish-mash. Little things like Superman not knowing who Clark is; big things like that stupid real estate scheme rehashed. And they shaved a piece off the Kryptonian crystal? Kinda like Lex cut Superman's hair with cutting pliers in Superman IV.
Even the effects, which were pretty good over all, faltered at the end. What was that goofy cartoony CG version of Superman flying, just before he went into space? I believed a man could fly, but I didn't believe it was Superman. Disappointing. -
Everything about it was horrible. The story sucked, I wanted to kill the annoying kid, it felt wayy longer than the already too much 2 1/2 hours, the action sucked, and it was the biggest waste of 10$ I don't know why Spacey wanted to do this. I'm very disappointed in Singer
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it would be funny to see singer at a comic book convention being rip apart by all of the fan boys.
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**SPOILER** Boy was the dog cannibalism a shock **END SPOILER**
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At least Phantom Menace had the decency to be mediocre from start to finish. Superman Returns teases you with a GREAT movie, and then drops that little turd of a kid on it and ruins the whole thing.
It frustrates me that they got so much RIGHT and then just... threw it all away.
I will definitely not be paying for repeat viewings and definitely will steer clear of buying the DVD. -
Of Earth years that passed so yeah Humans would have been primitives at that time but how the Kryptonians know this was never explained.
Also think back on what Jor-El said about other dimensions outside of the known ones. Then again maybe Supes spiffy little starship uses wormholes to travel instantaneously through space but not time.
If the movie science was real Star Trek couldn't exist. -
I've only skimmed this huge talkback, but I can't imagine all the people bitching about this film saw the same one that I did. Maybe because the first movie was such a huge part of my childhood and I do have that visceral reaction to the John Williams score and the imagery. But I loooved this film. It wasn't perfect, but damn if it didn't hit it out of the park. I disagree with so many people here. First, Routh. Though I respect Reeve's iconic performance, I felt like he played either Superman or the Clark Kent disguise, but I didn't get a sense of the actual person of Clark Kent/Superman. This was probably more about the time period and the direction than Reeve's acting ability. Routh surprised me that with little dialogue I got a sense of the human being behind the cape. His scene at home with Martha helped to solidify this. But even little moments, like his interaction with Kitty, showed how he handles things like adoration, as a person. 2nd, Singer captured what it means to be a superhero more than any other film I've seen. The iconic status (Action Comics #1), the god/savior (both Christian and Greek) issues, the amazing scenes of Supes in space, the Christ imagery, the Atlas imagery, the Icarus imagery. And tied to this is the son plot. I think this fit perfectly with the themes Singer was establishing. Who is Superman after all but a big father figure, the person who's always there (or you wish he was) to save the day? This is why Richard White was such an excellent character and the best addition to the mythos (and proving how much more Marsden could have done with Cyclops, given a chance). As a husband and father, he is every bit a Superman. I love the exchange: 'how did you get here? I flew." I love the drawing that the son makes with Superman at the top, but Daddy, Mommy and Me at the bottom. I love how the son is played. Ebert's comment about how he should have been a 'Spy Kid' just shows how much on crack he is these days and how much he didn't get it. (He actually preferred X3 over this? WTF?). Supes repeating his father's words in the kid's bedroom was just beautiful. Now, I admit the Lex stuff was a weak point. Though Spacey wasn't as campy as Hackman, I still expected something a bit darker and more motivated. For me, Michael Rosenbaum is still the best live-action Lex around. The Lex plot is where the most plot holes are, but basically at the end, I acknowledge that he and his scheme is just the plot catalyst and the real story is Superman's relation to Lois and her family, and to the rest of the world. Like when he steps off the plane and acknowledges the crowd in the baseball field, it's like in that moment he takes it all in, the adoration of the crowd, and you get a sense of the responsibility he shoulders. I disagree that he just shrugs off his leaving. I think it's clear that he regrets it and sees what he needs to do. In those scenes, I realized his connection to the world. Just as I was disturbed by the henchman beat down, seeing as these men are getting a chance to beat the crap out of the symbol that makes them feel inadequate as men. To me, this film is destined to be a classic of its genre, if not of filmmaking. Brian Singer anti-raped my childhood (what's the polar opposite of rape?) To me, it also shows what Singer can do on a grander scale when his hands aren't tied by idiot studies like Fox. Now, if only we can erase the mediocrity of X3 and give him two years to make a proper sequel to X2. And I really hope someday, they'll be able to do the World's Finest teamup with Bale as Batman and Routh as Superman. It's a good time to be alive.
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Badger999! c'mon! where's your verve? the kid is the whole thing. you see, on the "doucheman returns" dvd, there's an alternate scene where the kid is on the piano while Spacey, Posey and Kumar lead into a rousing musical jazz number called "There's a Pool Table on This Yacht, Dont Ask Me Why, I dont call the shots, im just a Singer..Yeah!.."
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Jul 01, 2006 12:04:42 AM CDT
didn't suck, but there were still clumps here and there
by calami-shami
felt to me like it was a total fanboy film. Why did we need the smallville flashback? that added nothing to the film except ten minutes or so. it looked cool but come on. I saw this with two friends. One hated it vehemently and then confessed he hated superman to begin with before he even entered the theater. The other guy felt pretty similar to me except that he despises john williams for some reason. another thing that factored into my viewing of the film was the ambeance. This was probably my worst theater going experience EVER. Screaming kids, two year olds running down the aisles screaming superman and demanding gummi worms. Lets not forget the mindless fucktards who talk on their cells while the movie is playing. Those people should die, because they are ignorant. Simple as that. One guy held a conversation for five minutes. he kept yelling "Yo I cant hear you im in the movie. I cant hear you! Cause im in da movie." Another guy had a boost mobile with that annoying fucking chirp. He was talking on it the whole time, back and forth. "Where you at? Right behind with a fuckin meat clever you soon to be headless fuck!" Im goin to see it again, at a midnight showing during the week just to actually relax and enjoy it.
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interpretation of the character. He creates himself from nothing (not by sleeping with rich old women), helps build Metropolis, greases the wheels, and Superman comes along and ruins it all with his glorified policeman act. He is Superman's intellectual equal. The Donner Luthor is silly.
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My wife and I just saw it (Friday night) in a packed theatre and we both loved it. Brandon Routh was great. Looking forward to the next sequel!
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Ah... why the hell didn't someone tell me the kid would be in a musical number? Now that's what this movie really needed!
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deserting everyone you know for five years (it's never explained why he tries to find Krypton - just 'cause), leaving without telling the woman you're supposedly in love with, and then coming back and expecting everything to fall right in line for you? Oh, and don't forget, the deadbeat dad speech at the end that everyone is so googly over. I guess technically if you save the mother on a regular basis that counts as child support.
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While i confess i thought that was what happened the first time i saw it... i didn't catch kitty's comment... 'weren't there two of those'... she's talking about two dogs. The dog ate another dog, and not a whole woman. You think the family would have just left their dead relative there?
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Jor-El is the ultimate deadbeat. Like father, like son.
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and became scooby doo, according to dougherty and harris' earlier draft.
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I have no ill feelings whatsoever when I download or rip a movie nowadays. The crap we put up with after paying 10+ bucks in a movie theater astounds me. I'm left to believe the only place left to see a movie with a good audience is the Arclight in hollywood... yet even there i've had talkers. /cry /cry /cry
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name being in big lights.
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http://tinyurl.com/rdx7q
just click on the "View full size" on the right-hand side of the pics. -
I assume these are jokes. But you know that Superman cannot become the boy's father, no matter what the biology is. Richard is his father. This is why Lois whispered the secret to Superman instead of in front of the kid. How fucked up will the kid be to know that the man he's loved all his life as his father isn't and his 'real' father is freakin' Superman? There's no way Superman can be a father to a child , when his responsibility is to the whole world. The boy has a perfectly good family. Why fuck it up? Plus, especially after that last scene, you know that Supes is going to keep a very close eye on the boy and be there for him in the way that he can, as a superhero. But Richard is his 'real' father and it should stay that way. I think it was excellent writing how that situation was handled. In the end, we don't want to see Lois and Supes together. While Superman floats above the clouds, real life has to go on among the normal people. I think it's significant that Clark never finds a place to stay in Metropolis because of this. He can't be a mundane person in Metropolis - the only place he could be that is on the farm at Smallville, which is why those opening scenes were so important. Even with his powers, it was necessary to be a kid, gleefully having fun without the great weight that he would eventually be under. When it comes to the Supes story, I can't say there was a single misstep. The Lex thing is a different story. And by the way, the dog didn't eat the old lady. The dog ate the other dog, which is funny after you saw them licking each other in the beginning. Was there a joke in there somewhere about it being a dog-eat-dog world?
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i think Warner is going to have Routh there in costume there on CSPAN today for publicity. Might help the weekend box office. or maybe he'll show at dodger stadium saturday. that would help the weekend numbers explode. really.
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Between the money WB made off Batman Begins, the money they're currently making with Superman Returns, and the money they will make off a Wonder Woman movie, there's no reason why they shouldn't get a Green Lantern film into production. I can see the marquee already: JOIN THE CORPS IN 2008!
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had children with her. He would not have had sex with her and then leave for five years, expecting her to be waiting for him when he gets back. It's a very immature depiction of the character. The kinds of conundrums I'm interested seeing Superman in are getting the criminals back into the Phantom Zone, routing Darkseid's forces, you know, that kind of stuff. It's not romantic or exciting to have one of the most famous couples in pop culture have a child out of wedlock who is raised by another man.
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It was sweet...but I wish the whole film was in IMAX3D. Is this impossible to do? The previews for the IMAX3D animated films looked amazing also. I cant wait to watch those films. I really enjoyed the space shuttle scene in 3D, and hopefully they can do the same for the sequel!!!!!!!
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and straight from Jack Black's mouth, is Warner Bros. has been courting him for quite some time for the role.
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I guess he jetted back to smallville every night huh... Overall, I liked the movie and I'm trying so hard to forgive the plot holes because it seems like Singer "tried" to put heart into this film.. Routh was good, Bosworth was good... Lex's plot was foolish unless he wanted the island to just kill Superman with... It just seem like today's audience isn't ready for someone so idealistic... Like someone said earlier, I think Superman is a product of more simple times. Doesn't fit in todays world...
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He would make a great Green Lantern, now that I think about it.
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I don't know if this has been mentioned, but Lois is one of the worst mothers I have ever seen. What kind of absolute fool brings her 5 year old son to investigate a story? Especially when the investigation involves breaking and entering onto someones yacht? That was one of the stupidest things I have ever seen in a movie! Hell, she makes Britney Spears look like a good mom!
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If the filmmaker treats Clark like a square, then of course he seems like a product of more simple times. However, if the filmmaker respects the character, and treats those aspects as deliberate choices by the character that he takes seriously, it works. Superman chooses to stand for those things, he is not a joke frozen in ice thawed out in 2006. This works well in the Animated Series where Clark is not acting like a befuddled simp, he's just a really nice guy who tries to do what is right and prefers not to draw attention to himself in his personal life. He gets called Boy Scout and mocked, but it doesn't phase him because he doesn't care what other people think.
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the lois and clark think is done. to make Clark Kent fresh again he has to leave the Daily Planet and work at FOXNEWS, where jingoism and conservativeness is the american order of the day. there he'll meet new coworkers like Tucker Carlson and Bill O Reilly. oh and his new office romance would be Ann Coulter. seriously.
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---LOIS LANE'S MEMORY WAS ERASED AT THE END OF SUPERMAN II, WHEN HER AND SUPERMAN DID THE DEED. SO HOW DOES SHE REMEMBER HAVING HAD SEX WITH HIM? SOMEONE EXPLAIN THIS SITUATION
---- AND NOW LEX KNOWS SUPERMAN HAS A KID. HE'S NOT GONNA LET THAT GO.
---- SO NOW IS SUPERMAN'S KID GONNA BE CENTRAL TO EACH FILM? THAT'S LAME. -
Lex Luthor, the greatest villian of all villians, the most evil, manipulative, cold-hearted criminal-minded bastard who wants nothing more than to take over the earth, is someone we all know...yet we've never actualy got to see him. The closest is Lex Luthor on Smallville. Lex is played very seriously and sadistically, yet is still fun to watch. Wouldn't his kind of Lex - once completely turned dark - be what everyone wants to see in a Superman movie?! Spacey's great, and played Lex very well. But not menacing enough...not mad-yet-genius enough. He was definitely better than Hackman (Who was good but I like a more threatening Lex), and surely was a bastard. But think of Lex from Smallville...the Lex Luthor that they foreshadow he will become is a Lex that rises to power while destroying everyone he cares - and doesn't care - about. He always has a hidden agenda and will do anything to satisfy his curiosity or world domination needs. He is power hungry and ruthless yet incredibly intelligent and coniving, which makes him fun to watch. Wigs aren't fun. Evil is fun. Want to know the Lex Luthor that should have been in this movie? THE LEX LUTHOR FROM THE SMALLVILLE EPISODE WHERE LEX SPLITS IN TWO, A PURELY GOOD SIDE AND A PURELY BAD SIDE, AND HIS BAD SIDE IS COMPLETELY MAD BUT INCREDIBLY SMART AND PUTS ON A KRYPTONITE RING, BEATS THE CRAP OUT OF CLARK, AND SHOOTS JONATHAN KENT FOR KICKS. That's the Lex that would have been awesome to see face-off Superman in 'Superman Returns'.
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How much more of a threat would Lex have been if Singer made him the LexCorp-owning business tycoon with hidden agendas we've all come to know and love? Wouldn't that be a huge threat to Superman - if the public embraced Lex Luthor as Metropolis' wealthiest businessmen, while Superman was the only one who truly knew what he was up to.
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I want to see. The real estate schemes are nonsense. I prefer the Lex Luthor who thinks he is the good guy. It makes him more interesting.
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I think this movie was Awesome. In six-seven years I see three or four movies that will tie together and it will include Christopher Reeves's first two movies in a compiled colletion of 506 movies that might even chellenge Lord of the Rings. I think even now in comics DC has had a way to make there stories always work and give a sense of hope. X-Men, Spiderman, Punisher, even Fantastic Four are so Grimly realistic that they always have mixed feelings. The DC comics always give you a drive to see greatness.
I went to see the movei with a non-comic book friend and at the end whispered to her the rumor of doing a Superman/Batman movie. She looked at me like I was an idot and said... Superman is so powerful, why would he team with someone like Batman. Well Comic book fans know that answer, and I think some of the raving that Moriarty made in challenging Superman's Irresposabilty, his decisions and the lack of the "sharing" of technology, show the Naive nature of Supermans "farm-boy" mentality. I think whether they open the doors to more cosmic villians like Braniac, Darkseid, Mongul, or bringing back Zod will be fun; but maybe even a comlex lower rank character like Toyman, Conduit, Mr Myzplixt, or even Bizarro may be used properly in the hands of Brian Singer.
I thikn the greatest challenge will be the true natural hero that James Marsden's character plays. FOr the Kid to realize he is Superman's son, you know the only way for it to work and people not feel odd is to have Marsden killed in an accident. Then there is that fun potential in the Kid. He is something never thought of in comic history.... Would he be the next Robin to follow in footsteps? Will he be the next Mordred, hating his father and lineage and try hard to defeat the thing that wants to love he most. Or even better, will he be a weaked will yet overly powerful, Anakin/Vader character that pulls back and forth from the good to bad back to good side?
I think ther eis alot of potential in this film and just like X-Men where they set up for a BETTER sequal, has better potential then say a Spider-man that Started Hard and the sequal was rather stale... leading to one heck of a thriller. -
i think its a bold step in the superman mythos, and one that can be accomodated by the comics as well. I mean, doesnt superman have a superboy in the comics? its his clone, but whatever, it still works. I hope they shift the focus of superman from natural disasters, to full scale alien warfare. We need doomsday, braniac, and even some scheming from lex.
I honestly think introducing aquaman would have made a good storyline for the second film (similar to the story in the animated series), but it wont work. Jason was wearing aquaman pajamas, hes already in the story.
they should let me direct the next film! -
...because the WB knows that GL's fanbase would be incensed at the prospect of making the character into a farce and they obviously don't care. They can't even say that they're "respecting the character" in that scenario, because they're purposefully doing the exact opposite.
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Scares* me, that is.
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Nacho Libre should make the Jack Black GL DOA. What kind of story would you do for GL? Origin included, or not? I think you kind of have to with GL to have a passing of the torch. Really, I don't think we need an origin story with every superhero film, but here it is key. Would you make the first film on Earth or do a sort of Star Wars saga with Jordan thrown into the thick of an intergalactic struggle? There is enormous opportunity here. I would prefer it be Jordan and not Kyle.
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I think that's the next big move for superhero filmdom. Personally, I wouldn't mind a Batman/Superman movie, as long as both characters are written maturely.
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This from zfisk/homewrecker who, in order to avoid further bannings, has dropped virtually all of his Jew-hating and homophobic rhetoric in favor of more frequent yet toothless posts, while linking to childlike photoshop collages where he attempts to articulate his true sentiments with hamfisted "satire". The fact is, for all his bluster, he's nothing but a little bitch who's been thoroughly tamed....... And Mr. Nice Gaius, keep fighting the good fight. Don't let Ring-a-ding-ding's phony righteous indignation throw you.
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You know the thing about Superman having a kid is that of couse all these geeks are bitching about it because if they can't get laid then neither should Superman. But when you think about it who the hell would make a better father than Superman. From what I'm reading here Singer squandered that for all the convoluted "Superman can never have a normal life" bullshit that every other medium has pretty much done away with. This does totally ruin the Lois/Superman realationship and makes the Lois/Clark/Superman love triangle pretty frivolous and stupid since there's way bigger fish to fry with the kid. What a mess.
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Thanks for the morning coffee through my nose, thecomedian.
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Of course you use Hal. But instead of simply making him washed up test pilot you make him a failed astronaut who now works as a test pilot. I know, I know morons will think it's an FF rip off. But by setting up Hal as someone whose always wanted to explore space or has a history with it gives all the cosmic stuff a whole other layer of pathos. You do Green Lantern as a trilogy with the 1st film taking place mostly on earth. Hal Jordan is given the ring by a dying Abin Sur. The corp doesn't show up for the 1st two 3rds of the movie and Hal has to wing it on his own. The the corp shows up. Hal learns the full deal of what it is he's signed up for. The second movie takes place mostly in space. Sinestro is the main villain. The third film comes back to earth where Hal and the corp must stop an invasion by the Manhunters. Somehow the corp gets boom tubed off earth or something and Hal has to recruit his own small team consisting of two of his old military buddies, a hard assed Black guy and a certain obnoxious hot headed jackass with a bowler haircut who got kicked out of the airforce and now works as a gym teacher.
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Why is it that there has been no mention of the whole Clerks 2/Myspace contest deal?! Am I just not looking in the right place? I mean, Jebus man, the "contest" began yesterday afternoon, turned out to be a fake link, and then was actually released sometime around 5:00/5:30pm?! Needless to say, fuck every human on the planet, because I am one of the ones who made it in...
http://www.joblo.com/index.php?id=11912 -
to have my name in the credits of a move that showcases not only K.S.'s brilliant direction, but at the same time, Rosario Dawson's beautifully bouncing breasts... na na naaah na na naaaaaaaahhhhh! (to all who missed out)
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that is where Hal hails from? Is there really anything important in Hal's characterization? I don't really think so. The action is in space. Unless you wanted to do a Green Arrow road trip movie, but they're not. Corps as military training a la Starship Troopers? Also, how do you fail as an astronaut? I mean, does that actually happen?
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fucking nuts? Off my rocker? Horribly misled!? Did I mention that Kevin Smith is fucking brilliant?!... hello talkback-bitches?!
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Why waste time with all of the goofy gags about the ring - Hal "discovers" his powers, when you can show him training with the Corps and do it there in a stronger context? This is a template that audience of superhero/hero's journey films are already overly familiar with. Everyone makes fun of Hal because he's from Earth. Meanwhile, Hal thinks he's a hot shot test pilot for aerospace, whatever.
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"My fellow" talkback-bitches... snooooch to the goddamn boooch! lol. Getting back to the topic at hand, I think Superman may blow, but, I pray it won't. And as I said long earlier: hopefully I will not be let down.
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It looks like we are the "3rd shift" of aintitcool.com. In that case, take this job and shove it up your fanboy ass- I quit. See y'all in the fuckin' mornin'.
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yes, SPOILERS ... I thought it kicked ass despite some flaws. The good stuff easily overcomes the stuff I didn't like. Wasn't completely sold on Kevin Spacey as Lex Luthor, which was the most surprising thing. I like Kevin Spacey and think he does creepy extremely well, but I think Gene Hackman may have done it too well to follow up on. Brandon Routh does a great job. You believe he's Superman, although there are plot points I'm not crazy about. Lois Lane I didn't like at all, but whatever, it's Superman you came to see.
The plane crash sequence makes the movie. You'll see what I mean, if you haven't already. I actually liked Superman soaking up all that adoration. It's like he was remembering why he cared about these sorry-ass people enough to save their sorry asses in the first place.
Also, Superman getting the shit kicked out of him in the mud. I know I felt bad for him, bunch of thugs kicking him while he's face-down in the mud. And he gets even the right way, by doing what is best for everybody, not petty revenge.
BUT, I thought the Christ imagery was overdone. The father, the son, him in the "Jesus Christ Pose" falling to Earth, then basically dying and coming back to life. That was a bit much. I just think it's a separate mythology, don't tie it to Christianity so much.
The last part dragged, and I wanted a cigarette, and I actually wanted it to end. But I still loved the movie. It was a remake of the first one in some ways, but where it was a remake it was still good.
The Lex Luthor plot was stupid, though. If you ARE going to destroy a continent in order to make your own, why make it North America that you destroy? Goodbye, richest people in the world, now the rest of you buy my barren land. I don't know, maybe Lex was more turned on by killing the largest amount of people than making a lot of money. But that's not supported, really. And why didn't he keep Superman's kid around? Isn't that a huge bargaining chip? I've got not only Lois, but your son as well. He just left them behind, like they weren't important, when he knew they were.
At any rate, those are just quibbles. The movie was good. Not Oscar-worthy, but a good waste of two and a half hours. -
Then in the second film he gets kicked out of the Corp for going rogue because we all know the pointy heads that power the Lanterns are GITS (a la Yoda). Then the other Earth lanterns get sucked in and draw Hal back in and save the universe, and Guy dies a heroic death.
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Being able to pout in a Superman outfit does not make you Superman.
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Insomnia... guess i'm working overtime. Badbrain, is it true that spacey seemed like he was doing an impersonation of hackman the whole time?
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... there had be another talkback waiting for me when I wake up tomorrow... Harry, I'm talking to you dag nabbitt. I'll be up at 12 noon, sharp! Chop, chop!!
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I meant to say "had better be". Fuck, it's time for beddie bye... fuck.
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This could have done with a UFC polar bear match and a giant spider, sure it made no sense, but neither did Lex and his retarded plan.
At least Beyonce would have had some sass, but my vote goes out to Anne Hathaway, she should have been Lois. -
This movie had all the right beats and I think captured the way that people would realistically see supes. As a saviour figure pure and simple. Plus all you dorks whining about the triangle, kate and the kid have obviously never been in an adult relationship with anyone other than your mother.
p.s. Yes i agree James Marsden for Hal Jordon -
I like it, Bobo! I just saw SR-it was beautiful, nostalgic, and a little boring. The kid was fine, Kate Bosworth was almost good, Routh was pretty near perfect, Posey was wasted, Spacey was annoying. Still, I felt all warm and tingly in parts (as any good gay jesus movie should make you feel), and the plane rescue was amazing! No Spacey next time, and a WORLD's FINESt as a dual 3rd installment.
Mori's review was spot on regarding being painted into a corner for the next one. I hope they are much less reverent next time. Bring on the bring on the giant spider!!! -
Also, the Rahs plot in Batman Begins was no less ridiculous than Lex's. Blow up all the water? C'mon!
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It's assinine, as most of the target audience hasn't seen that movie, and most of the general audience won't think "Oh, this continues the story of a 26 year-old movie." But, okay, fine. If we're to accept that what happened in Superman 2 produced this child, wouldn't Lois feel a tad raped? Like, "wait a minute, I never had sex with Superman." But the real stupid thing with that continuity is that at the end of Superman 2, Superman tells the President he'll never leave again! Then apparently he leaves for five years without saying goodbye. The more time that passes since I've seen the movie, the worse it's become. It's not Superman, and it's dull, with little action, and the kid was such a stupid, stupid, stupid addition. The script sucked.
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I'm sure glad McG had nothing to do with it!
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and crapfest called Wild wild West.
The Giant Mechanical Spider...... -
If Singer really wanted to pay homage to Donner's film, he should have made it FUN to watch. The entire movie is just so depressing from start to finish. It just bogged them film down. SR felt it was 2x longer than king kong.
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is where i Blown away. I agree that in the beginning, i felt uneasy about the christlike stuff but the more i saw the brando trailer. I tought This could work. Lobby groupitis compells most studios to include certain things in films. WB propably had no choice but to go with the christ imagaery, christian lobby groups would have complained. You dont mess with them.
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Is it just me or was i the only one who thought Lois Lane taking her son with her to see LEX LUTHOR was stupid?
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Jul 01, 2006 9:47:36 AM CDT
Yup. James Marsden for The Green Lantern/Hal Jordan.
by orbots commander
Hey Warner Brothers executives, go sign up Marsden for a series of Green Lantern sequels. You have your Hal Jordan right in front of you.
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as a villain. There should just be random scenes of him trying to play pool on his yacht in the middle of a hurricane.
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Think about...put fear-inducing inhalant in water supply, vaporize water supply, watch city go crazy. The only problem is believing the poison being dumped three months earlier would still be in the water supply too. And my biggest peeve with BB's third act is Water Official Exposition, fretting and supplying information that the audience already knows. Damnit, Nolan, shoulda left that guy on the cutting room floor.
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Well, I'm not sure that the times changed enough for Singer to make Brandon Routh into the first Metrosexual Superman. But he is from Metropolis. Hmm. More to follow...
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Movie I: Green Lantern Hal Jordan origins and rise in the Green Lantern Corps to become greatest GL ever. Movie II: Hal Jordan fails to stop the destruction of Coast City from an alien invasion, early in the movie, rebels against the Guardians and the Corps, becomes a crazed godlike entity. Movie III: One Guardian gives the last remaining power ring to a graphic designer to try and stop Hal Jordan. Since "Trilogies" rarely stop at threes anymore, the fourth movie may involve some cosmic crisis where Kyle Rayner asks the Guardians to bring back Hal Jordan, and Jordan redeems himself.
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FoxNws bashing the movie is a direct competitor to the WB and they are P%#@#@ that Bryan Singer left their X-Men with a mediocre X3 for Superman Returns, they have an agenda and any critics from them or other competitor studio tools is a conflict of interest and nothing to take too seriously, like those two Ebert & Roeper clowns really with Disney; everybody out there seems to have their own agenda right down to comic book competitor bashers, it's a doggy dog world out there; but the fact is when I saw it theaters were full house and applauding it which says more than a few well paid professional bashers -> http://groups.msn.com/HEROESCOMICS
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Now, I just feel sorry for WB at this point. That's only about a 45% increase over the crappy Thurs business. By contrast, Batman Begins jumped over a 100% on its first Friday. Even though the movie is lousy, I cannot believe it is not doing as well as Fantastic Four, which was just a total disaster.
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Warner Bros. is finding this out now. All that money down the drain./
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i can't believe the weak box office.
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That's your average blockbuster take on a friday, Galt--you know that as well as I. Saturdays Sundays usually take about double what a friday showing takes. Yeah, I'll grant you that AICN was saying it would do star wars business, but I dont think anyone was seriously giving them any heed. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Superman is doing just fine for a non-sequel tentpole film that possesses a 2/3 male audience.
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"Superman Returns" is going to make less in five days than "X-Men: The Last Stand" earned in three. Anyway you look at it, that must be hugely disappointing for Singer, Warner Bros, et al. And "Pirates 2" still looms...
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But if you compare it BB, Spidey1, FF...all "non-sequel tentpoles", this movie is a huge disappointment, especially considering it cost more to make than X1 and X2 combined.
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If those bastards at Warners would've done a Supes vs. Doomsday or Darkseid epic, considering all the money that was spent on this glorified re-make, this abortion probably would've made $200 million over the weekend...Granted, it would've alienated the critics and some of these pussy-elitist talkbackers, who'd whine about a lack of human interest and romance between Supes/Clark and Lois and then would suggest that they (Warners) should've hired Charlie Kaufman or some other over-hyped wretched hack to do another boring re-boot (or re-imagining) of the origin with Clark/Supes as some neurotic nebbish who cries about not being able to fit in.
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And there are two easy answers: First -- The trailers sucked. (Seriously, heads better roll at the WB marketing department.) Second -- The movie's just not all that great, and word of mouth (which spreads with super speed, even among the non-AICN-reading folk) isn't going to be all that positive.
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We just recently got a new "DLP" digital projection theater here in good old Fort Wayne and Superman was the first film I have ever seen in the format. WOW! Superman Returns was just ok. I never thought you could actually make a 250million Superman movie and actually have it be boring in parts. Oh well, "Pirates" is out in a week!
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I've been a Superman fan since I saw the fist movie in '78. I remember watching it 23 times on HBO in a month, it drove my parents nuts. I even have a blue 1994 Mercury Cougar decked out in Superman, if anyone wishes to see it they can goto www.myspace/lexcorp94.com to see photos of it. Got to park my car next to the Superman Statue in Metropolis, Illinois this past June. Got to see Michael Rosenbaum (Lex Luthor on Smallville). Had a great time, people loved my car.
I saw the movie on Tuesday night with 2 free tickets I won at the local radio station, so I took my 13 year old boy with me. It was great to see and hear the same titles from the first movie, I always loved the titles for the first movie, ok strange, but they are cool titles. I liked the story line, I was worried about it before I saw it but it comes together nicely. I like the idea about Lois's son. I thought that Brandon Routh's Superman is good he does look a little like Christopher Reeve. I like Kevin Spacey as Lex, but I also like Gene's Lex as well, both great actors. I'm not going to get in complete details on the movie, I loved it, going to see it again, planing on buying the DVD collection and watching it over and over. Over all I give Superman Returns 5 of 5 stars, it was a hit with me at least. There were couple of problems I noticed the first time, but still loved it.
Looking forward to the next one. -
SR's budget is actually the same as x-men (which was a low budget blockbuster) and x-2 (which had a mediocer budget, especially for a sequel to a successful movie). X was 75 mil and X2 was 110 mil. SR's budget is 185. I've noticed that only the critics who have a negative reaction to SR like to combine the 185 budget with the 65 mil WB spent over a decade to get this film off the ground. Again, it just seems like you are slightly exagerating the situation, Galt.
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they should of just done a remake not a rehash. Seeing this really makes me wish that Singer stayed with the X-men Franchise and someone else had Superman. Singer's version of X3 would have been great, instead he made the most expensive piece of fan fiction ever.
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If WB ever does make another one, it won't be with Singer and they will probably go the uber-cheap route like Fox did with the first X-MEN (which cost a grand total of $75 million to make).
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Jul 01, 2006 12:27:08 PM CDT
SUPERMAN RETURNS should have been 1hr. 40 min tops.
by orbots commander
I don't think the main fault was with the story. I liked the dramatic take on Superman. The main fault with the film is that there's just too much footage, a la Jackson's King Kong, for the story they wanted to tell.
I'm sure that if Singer and company excised about a half hour to forty minutes of film, we would have had a nicely paced and interesting Superman Returns.
In fact the DVD release should offer a COMPRESSED edition of the movie, not an extended cut with deleted scenes. -
I want a special edition of KING KONG with about an hour trimmed out. You can have too much of a good thing.
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I'm not sure, but i think he could've been referring to an old Snoop Dogg Song called It's a Doggy Dogg World.
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I have a lot of positive things to say about this film but just assume that if I don't talk about something I was fine with it. There were moments of epic grandeur ; Superman charging up in front of the sun, Routh commanded the role and I instantly forgot how I think he looks too young, a lot of the visuals and the big action set pieces were breathtaking. So I found a lot to enjoy. Some of the Donner homage worked, some didn't. The score felt right, the credits were awesome, a few of the goofball scenes (foofy cannibal dogs) worked. However, the thing that I've been trying to look past and reason myself out of managed to happen anyway. I got disappointed as I watched a retread. A bigger, prettier retread but a retread nonetheless. I pretty much agree with Moriarty 100% (as usual, for some reason) about the film following all the major plot beats. The film lacked a villain with powers to pose a threat, and Lex's hare-brained scheme kept nagging at my suspension of disbelief. It was Lex Luthor up to the same old shenanigans that he was in the Donner films, despite the fact that Spacey looked a bit closer to the part. And we didn't even get a General Zod. It seemed like it was all designed around Superman lifting the continent into space, which I admit was pretty epic. But even that didn't really fit with the rest of the film, in fact it seemed like Supes was a bit powered down for the most part. I mean, he has trouble stopping a plane but he can lift a continent made of Kryptonite? Singer envisions Superman as a sort of omnipotent voyeur that can hear everything going wrong in the world at once. In that case I doubt he has time to masquerade around as Clark Kent, righting wrongs should be a 24 hour a day job. As has been mentioned ad nauseum, there are a lot of continuity issues surrounding, well, Superman's return as well. Maybe it's just that asking an audience to accept glasses as a disguise is already a lot of work, and then to have Clark and Superman return at the exact same time just kind of rubs sand in the wound. Who knows why Kate Bosworth was cast in this role as she looks 18, in my opinion competent yet bland.. and Jimmy is Jimmy but he must have been 10 when Supes last left. The kid was a tad much, and I hate to see where they're going to go with this narrative dead end in the sequel when the kid is suddenly 14 with acne. Puberty and powers: apparently Singer didn't get enough of this in the X-Men franchise. And did Superman look CG to anyone in one of the last shots of the film where he's flying away from Earth? He looked perfect throughout but then in one shot he looked terrible. Had to slide that last nitpick in there just for good measure. But again, like I said, I had a good time at the movie. I think it was just a big huge case of missed potential, because with a different script it could have set the new standard. I get the feeling that after 10 years of development hell, Warner Bros got excited over Singer's half-way-there idea and realized it was more marketable than Burton's Cageman and less craptastic than Ashton Kutcher in a McG Superman. And I agree, it is. But I wish some intern had left a copy of their favorite Superman graphic novel on a producer's desk or something. I wouldn't know which one that would be, I'm a Batman fan myself. Why not the Death of Superman? Singer was right, everyone knows his origin and the character because he has been done to death. So why are we seeing a retread again?
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Too bad you guys can't check my post history. I've known Superman Returns was gonna tank months ago. The main problem with the Superman license is that it's been done to death. People have already had four Superman movies, the old series, Lois & Clark, Smallville, cartoons, etc. People already "get" the character. It's made worse by the fact that the he's pretty much infallible. Why go see Superman when you already know bullets don't hurt him and he can fly? Batman Begins is still one of my favorite comic films of all time. Why? Because the character isn't infallible and has to deal with the plights of mortals. Long story short, people are tired of Superman. The only way to get people in theaters to see a new version is to have Peter Jackson or Steven Spielberg direct and that aint happening. Ever.
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Shouldn't Superman atleast check in on his ol' buddy Lex Luthor when he gets back to earth? I mean, he is the greatest criminal genius of our time or whatever.. Shouldn't someone inform him that Luthor is out and about seducing old moneybags and visiting the museum with the Kryptonite? Shouldn't he kind of be keeping tabs on that pesky green stuff?
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Come on, the monologue at the end of KILL BILL VOL 2 nails what is cool about Superman mythology. I imagine his movie would give Clark Kent even more screentime than Supes. Singer was content to give Kent a couple of cameos. Maybe he would've gotten Christopher Walken as Perry White (I couldn't believe how boring Frank Langella was). Of course, Uma will have to Lois Lane, not sure how that will play...
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You don't need a new director or more footage. Warner Brothers could hire a great editor like Walter Murch to edit the thing properly.
Cut the scenes which were not necessary and added nothing to the story because they had no consequences or were simply redundant.
Example: Cut the Kansas scenes. Simply open with Superman's ship streaking towards Earth, crashlanding, and a silhouette of Supes rising from the ship. Then, CUT right to The Daily Planet and Clark's first day back.
CUT the whole scene with Lex and the widow. Instead, introduce Luthor at the Fortress of Solitude. Cut some of the 'Superman rescues various people shots'. We get it; Superman saves the day. You only need to show that maybe twice.
Keep the Lois and family, but CUT that stuff to the bone.
Superman can ponder, floating over the Earth, but how many times do we need to see him do it? Only ONCE, but show it well.
Another repetitive thing: Superman defeated and falling. He is weak and falls when beaten by Luthor and his thugs; he is weakened and falls into the ocean when stabbed by Kryptonite; and AGAIN, he is weakened and drops to Earth when tossing the continent off into space. Compress all this stuff into maybe one long sequence, where the main thrust is, 'Superman is beaten, is weakened and falls.' Severely trim the seaplane rescue. You just need to show the plane arrive, Lois diving to rescue Supes, then CUT right to Luthor gloating and Superman, revived, flying back. CUT, CUT, CUT, down the hospital and finale scenes in The Kid's bedroom. You could keep them, but severely trim them. -
Is it possible that John Ottman was simply not done editing the damn thing when he took off to write the score? Even individual scenes that you need are poorly paced, with lots of entrances and exits. On the X2 commentary, Singer said you should always enter a scene as late as possible and leave as soon as possible. In other words, get to the point and don't meander. He seems to have suffered some sort of Superman mind-wipe before making SR because he didn't follow his own rules.
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Hire Paul Dini or Geoff Johns to write the script and give $100 -
$150 million to Robert Rodriguez to direct/produce it, because he knows how to put out high quality (but cost-effective) entertainment -
Jul 01, 2006 1:09:14 PM CDT
Paul Dini as writer on the next Superman would be great
by orbots commander
Another thing, say what you want about the Star Wars prequels, one thing they were not was SLOW.
Lucas may not be that great of a writer or in coaxing a performance from an actor, but I contend that he's one of the best editors in the business. I don't think there was an ounce of uneeded footage in Revenge of the Sith. -
For Friday. Ouch. Maybe Meryl Streep should've played Lex Luthor.
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Think about it: high-profile director takes on what, to him, is a beloved and revered property. People expect it to be the blockbuster of the year. Gets mostly good reviews with a few exceptions. Opens to the public, and it just plain turns out that the demand was not what they were expecting. Both movies will end up being hits, no doubt about that at all. But they just plain made a miscalculation about just how much the public wanted to see what they were doing.
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That's what you get for swishing into Comic Con last year with your tude and looking down at everyone who came to see you.
You thought you could fiil Donner's shoes and found out you weren't even as good as Lester. Fuck you for stepping on Brando's grave and robbing his image to put in your backlot shot shitfest. Because you know damn good and well if he were alive there's no way he would have had anything to do with this limp movie.
And what's with the little Reeve dedication slapped on at the end so you could say you did it. A dedication goes at the front. Y'know, like Donner did with Geoffrey Unsworth on his film. Dumbass.
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I was just on Box Office Report.com...The news ain't good.
Superman is projected to do $51 million over the weekend, which will give it a grand total of $83 million when all is said and done by Monday. To the Warner Execs., tim to breakout the Maalox. -
Jimmy fires off a bunch of shots of Supes setting down the Daily Planet globe and then excitedly gawks at the preview screen on the back of his own camera. I wondered if he was standing in for Bryan Singer, who was perhaps just as amazed by and excited about the Superman images he was getting to put to film himself, in a sort of semi-cameo moment. And they both use digital cameras (or maybe Jimmy's got a film camera w/ digital preview... or then again maybe the moment was just about Jimmy Olsen).
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It didnt help that you had websites like AICN hype this sucker up as though it would do titanic numbers or something. Since I'm one of the guys that really didnt care for Kong, I guess I'm getting my just deserts on this one. The only problem is, I REEEAALLY hope there will be a sequel; i want to finish the story line--badly. However, I do recall the AICN posters' reactions towards Batman Begins, saying it was unnecessary, boring, etc, and how BB was a failure and WB killed the franchise. Heck, you had moviemack, and those like him, quoting hourly returns like clockwork and wailing like chicken little. Now, here we all are, a year later, and batman begins is being reguarded as a success and yet most of the AICNers are doing their little dance. Again, I'm not trying to paint SR as the end-all be-all film, but I am saying that this smacks of the same crap we heard last year with BB.
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There were some engaging moments, to be sure. Lex Luthor's first appearance was quite funny. Supes flying into space and listening to all the horror going on the world and having to decide which atrocity to handle was a good way of showing how difficult it must be to be a Superman. But the flaws were too numerous to list cohesively. Kate Bosworth is no Kirsten Dunst, not even if she overcomes her anorexia. Also, when you have a hero and villain who don't have elaborate battles (a la Spidey and Doc Ock) and therefore only spar through mind games, it helps if you don't wait for the end of the movie for them to encounter each other. And when you spend $180 million on a Superman movie, you better give him someone to fight at the end. Don't spend two hours building up to a climax where Supes big challenge is to scoop up a giant rock out of the oceand throw it into space. Oooh, it had kryptonite shards sticking out of it. Whoopee fuckin' doo. I really thought he was gonna fall back into the sea and get crushed. Crap. X-Men: The Last Stand, though not nearly as good as X2, was a better film. I'll take Ian McKellan and a chess board over Brandon Routh standing over a kid any day.
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BB was a very good genre movie. For the first 2/3 of the running time it was fantastic, almost Best Picture quality. But then came that mess of a third act; it was sloppy, incomprehensible, and just all over the place. If the first part of the film wasn't as good as it was, the latter part of the story would have killed it.
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Because it had action???
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I'd gladly stand against those two bozos anytime. Too bad you weren't around earlier, this TB has been a rowdy one.
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that everyone is assuming this film wont pull a batman begins and earn most of its bread through the following month or two. As near as I can tell, SR is receiving the same critical and audience reaction as BB (and the same chicken-little AICN reaction). And considering that BB made most of its money despite War of the Worlds and F4 being released soon after and Star Wars released just a few weeks before, I think Superman Returns can still do fine with only POTC being released. And remember, this film only costed 30 more million to make than Batman, so it neads to only make an extra 60 mil to be reguarded as a success. Heck, its already doing better on its 5 day release than batman, so in my opinion, its doing just fine. Not ball droppingly great, but not "oh shit we're gonna die!" bad, either.
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times running out..
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I'm sure they will be very relieved.
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Not because BB had action. Because it was not very well executed. Look, Nolan is a very good director. I'd be extremely happy to see him return again and again for sequels. But I think the fact that he wasn't used to making a big budget action spectacle caused him to stumble in creating a better last third of BB.
The entire chunk of sequences from the Ras Al Ghul reemergence to the plot to poison the water supply to the prisoner escape and followed by the train chase was not well handled and was actually not very exciting. On top of that, Nolan did not shoot the action sequences very well.
But Nolan is good enough where I can see nothing but improvement among his next movies. -
Not $30. Where are you getting these numbers, anyway???
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I mean, how else would you be qualified to throw insults at this movie if you haven't even seen it yet?
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Dang Boo! Calm down. I'm sure over the long run it'll make its' money back. Hell when you factor in the overseas market and the subsequent dvd release, Warners will make a pretty penny. Now Brian Singer on the other hand is gon' hafta' swallow a whole case of penis coladas that ol' Tom Rothman at Fox has just sent his ass via Fedex for leaving X3 to do a tired-ass Superman remake.
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extensively, even if the audience was confused b/c we saw him die (as Batman himself notes). That's why when we discover its Liam Neeson, it's a nice surprise and the conversation the two men have is a resolution of the intellectual debate they began at the beginning of the movie. As for the action sequences, I thought they were handled well and exciting...I guess that's just where we part ways...
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Batman Begins costed 150 million to make. SR costed 185 million. Now, if you ad the 65 million that WB spent over a ten year period for all the failed scripts from Burton, McG, and everybody else, than the price tag for SR goes up. However, Superman Returns, according to Singer and confirmed by WB, had a budget of 185.
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Most reports had it pushing $300 million. And regardless of what the critics said, Batman Begins is a much more liked and respected film by the general public than Superman Returns is ever going to be. As a matter of fact, I expect Batman Begins II to do gangbusters on opening weekend because people know how fantastic Nolan and Bale's first effort was. Superman Returns II probably can't get a greenlight at all at this point.
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I'm a-calm, I'm a-calm ;) I think most of my reaction is owed to the fact that Im reading "the gospel according to Galt." Where are my meds?
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They are not going to admit to plunking down $250 mil for a movie that could've been made for $100. As for all the tens of millions that have spent by WB over the past decade, why shouldn't that be added to the movie's cost? Did WB win that money in a raffle? Do they not need to recoup it???
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After all, BB was a WB movie as well, wasn't it. In both cases, WB said its budget was 150 for BB and 185 for Supes. Now, you cant logically say they never underestimated the latter while remaining true-blue to the former.
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Singer and co should be hanged for this atrocity. I haven't been this disappointed since Batman and Robin. At least that rubbish was consistently crap. -
Because it would be akin to adding the cost of a flop movie to its successful sequel. The fact is, Tim Burton and Nick Cage were paid for a film they couldnt get off the ground (due to rightfully jittery WB execs), so I count that as a sepperate, failed film. To follow your logic, I would have to add the production cost of that low budget FF film from the nineties to the cost of the new ff film. AFter all, the new one wouldnt have been made if not for the old one (it was made to maintain film rights).
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it's boxofficemojo.com, which also quotes a pricetage of $260 mil for Superman Returns
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left. We get a couple lines of dialog: "That place was a graveyard", something to the effect of "A Man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do".. etc. That's it? It would have helped if we had seen him in space. Maybe the audience is supposed to take it as an allusion to the fact that Superman has been absent from the silver screen for so long? Just seemed like the springboard into the adoption/old boyfriend/homage story Singer wanted to tell rather than a feasible plot device.
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Cause guess what, Galt? Other sites have the film's production budget listed as: 185, 204, 250, 260, and 310 million dollars. Heck, Newsweek says its 204, entertainment weekly says its 185, vogue says its 185, time says 250, the list goes on and on. Why all the variance? Because of the different deffinitions of production costs. Do you factor in decade-old failed scripts, advertisement, bare-bones production costs, etc. Thats why Im not cherry picking sites, Galt, I'm merely going to use the quote from Singer. If singer says his film costed such and such, than its such and such. The same goes with Batman and every other film/film-maker. There is no authority over websites to tell the truth, maintain accuracy, or define their perameters.
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I never concern myself with popular opinion. I hated the first Spiderman movie, loved (well enjoyed) Daredevil, thought Blade 3 and X3 were all out entertaining, I think you get the picture. Having grown up watching the original Superman films hundreds of times over I came into Superman Returns with the higest of expectations and was disappointed on absolutely EVERY level. When I first read that the idea was to create a sequel which not only eliminates parts 3 and 4 (not that I minded that so much) but is supposed to be a continuation of the original 70's and 80's films, the expectation was that each actor was to live and breathe every element of the original cast. Brandon Routh had it about as much as anyone could have, but even as close as he was, he was NOT Christopher Reeve and I think it was a terrible idea to even put such a heavy burden on him or any actor. Lois Lane more than anyone was so far from being Margot Kidders much more strong willed, independent and overly entertaining incarnation of Lois. Kevin Spacey did exactly what I feared and overshot his acting skills. Guys like him and Sam Jackson just can't seem to help but to act almost as if they're doing a parody of themselves unless they get another out of the ballpark script. But lets get away from the individual actor gripes and get into the story. It's always bothered me that Superman has seemed to put his interest in Lois ahead of saving the world (I'll never forgive him for giving up his powers for her in part 2) but in this film the guy was a flat out stalker. At least in the first films Lois was actually interested in the guy. It seemed like so much more attention was put towards that situation than to the impending doom that Luthor had planned for the world. I NEVER felt there was a chance that Lex would be successful and no matter how many times you see a film like this, you should always be able to think there's a chance. There were too many "comic book cover" moments where they have superman picking up something big and posing to overly dramatic music. As much as people crap all over Brett Ratner, I enjoyed X3 100 million times more than I did Superman or X1 or 2 for that matter and I have no plans to watch Supes Returns again whether it be on DVD or free tv. Maybe if they had written a script that allowed for nods to the original while being its own film in its own universe, I would have been able to enjoy the film, but whats done is done and I guess I'll just wait for the Donner release of the original Superman.
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All of our figures are based upon estimates made by the studios, producers, and directors. Box Office Mojo, and other sites like it, are no different. The difference is that all the sites have different definitions of production cost. Just as a for instance, Mojo doesnt include advertisement budget. The reason is because the production budget is kept seperate from the studio's advertisement budget and are often undisclosed, therefore Box Office Mojo doesnt show the ad costs of BB or SR. This is why I just refer to brass tax production costs as quoted by the film makers; just makes my headaches arrive in less frequency, you know?
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Enough said.
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the intellectual phase of our debate. I wonder what Rand would have said at that remark...
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Moondoggy, i think that was JohnGalt06 subtle way of saying Touche.
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Ouch, what a low blow to Singer to equate him with Schumacher. I don't know if I would be that harsh, but Singer definitely fucked this one up pretty badly.
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when you need it? I wonder what his crowing remarks were when he gleefully learned that Batman Begins made less than 50 million during its opening days.
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comeback. Why do people think that by bring up Rand they automatically win an argument with me? I'll concede that the exact amount SR costs is known only to WB at this point. What we do know is that the movie is seriously underperforming at the BO. And I think I can say with little uncertainty that Rand would've hated this movie.
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I really enjoyed Superman Returns. Routh was great, the love Singer has for the Donner movie was evident, and I thought that the story was pretty cool. I'm looking forward to a spunkier Kate Bosworth, and I think it was extremely brave to introduce the kid--that's such a huge plot point that can't be ignored.
I don't know why people are nitpicking about Kent getting his job back at the Planet (they didn't hold the job for him, someone else died) or about Luthor's plan not making sense--yes the land looked uninhabitable at first, but that didn't bother me at all--Luthor could've easily made in habitable over time. Although I think Luthor would've been overwhelmed by the military from the USA had that part of the story continued--and I would've liked to have seen him do something to prepare for that possibility as well.
Great movie. The plane scene alone was worth the price of admission--it was so uplifting to see Superman save the plane and for everyone to react with such happiness. To me, Superman Returns was an awesome display of optimism in an increasingly sarcastic world filled with internet flamers who have no consequences for their actions.
Can't wait to see the next one!
S.
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The reason I used that line is because you basically made a somewhat emotional and illogical response to my statement. When your handle is John Galt, you are only setting yourself up for critical analsysis of your actions as an objectivist. Unless you're striving for irony, that is.
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or at the very least, someone who affiliates with objectivism (I know you hate isms) and respond to reasoned arguments with petulent outbursts.
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I suspect they will sell enough Superman toys from this one to warrant a sequel (although no guarantee of that). But it will have a much lower budget, which will certainly show up on screen with even less action and effects. A good script could still save it, but if these same no-talent loser hacks pen it, then it will be even more of a letdown than this one. Anyway, it probably ends with the next sequel, at least for another 20 years or so. It's too bad that they couldn't do justice to this great character and give us something fun to watch.
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therefore I am never allowed to use exclamation points in trivial discussions of the BO performance of lousy movies?
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SR's openings are well shy of what AICN, and Harry ass kissers, told us it would do. Harry and Co were slamming the shit out of X3 and proclaiming its doom and gloom just as soon as SR, a real movie helmed by a real director, according to Harry, flew in on June 28th. Yet another case of overhype and setting up the readers here at AICN for dissapointment and inevitable fallout.
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Alls I'm saying is that you shouldnt complain about inevitable comparisons when you refer to yourself as John Galt. Likewise, I get all kinds of guys who mention lunar eclipses, cans of alpo, and one-night stands with Sally Field. I dont complain because I know I've set myself up for it.
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Touche Turtle.
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comments do you get?
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that most reviewers have pretty much been equally favorable with X3 and SR (I think SR might have come out with better critical reaction, but what the who). However, this site unfairly ripped x3 to shreds and built up SR to be the second coming (Jesus's, not Supe's). Is it any wonder that there is so much vitriol from those that werent in love with superman and liked xmen? I myself was far more entertained by Superman (but then, I'm a huuuge supe fan), but I also loved Xmen3 and thought it a perfect endcap to the series. Oh well--here's to hoping that cooler heads prevail...
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Well, on second thought, you'd be surprised how many I get when I'm talking to Mayans...
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I am not ACTUALLY John Galt, who believe it or not is a fictional character. I am not ideal man (though damn close) and I cannot invent a motor that violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
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If Lisa Simpson can do it, you can too.
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Singer better get used to all the shit he's going to get, and it's not going to go away anytime soon. It's a shame that I actually had some fun watching X3 instead of Supe's, now that's sad.
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Warner threw in half and Singer's company threw in half as well - So by wording, yeah, maybe it only cost Warner 185, but another 185 was brought in by Singer. This not only bought Singer sequel rights, but a cut of the toys, shirts and all kinds of other shit that is being marked down as we speak. Why do you think they went through the whole "changing the S" so now the toys are marked with a movie brand and (they thought) kids would have to have a movvie Superman figure and not a Justice League cartoon one.
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And comparable to MATRIX RELOADED. Go to rottentomatoes page for that movie and read its glowing reviews. What movie did these people see????
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There's no way it cost 2x$185 mil, Guy, unless they heated all the trailers with furnaces that could only run on $100 bills.
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Believe it or not, WB has given two sepparate stories as to how much they spent these past ten years on failed attempts. One story is that they spent nearly 150 million, the other is 65 million. Also, at Rotten Tomatos and Box office Mojo, they are saying that Superman's performance so far is a strong, successful performance--but not spectacular (which is what I've been saying throughout this thread).
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over a fucking amazing film. Just goes to show fanboys are never happy unless they're bitching. And one more thing about the Christ imagery. The beatdown was totally reminiscent of the scourging on Golgotha. And the Kryptonite piercing his side? Crystal of Destiny? Lex and henchmen = Romans. I don't think this is 'ripping off' the Jesus story, but part of a heroic current (Joseph Cambell, et. al.) that Jesus and other 'Dying/Resurrected' god stories have participated in. We're just most familiar with the Christ thing. What are Superheroes if not Christ figures? Especially when they refuse to stay dead.
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this was a movie that should have had it all.
in the end, it just wasn't that fun. remember the cleverness and laughs of the 1st (and even 2nd) spiderman movies? or even the original superman by donner? or even raiders or star wars?
where's the fun, hollywood?
we all know you can make any CG image you want, and it will look cool. try and make a story next time.
lex luthor? seemed like a barely functioning dummy. no fun. parker posey as who-ever-the-f*ck? not fun. horrible acting. was the direction "no, remember to be dull and have no life or emotion" on ever scene. how could the director ruin the classic moment where the moll says "get out". they did.
every emotional note in the movie seemed lost. no fun, no real drama.
nobody IN the movie seemed engages IN the events.
this movie reminded me a lot of the flatness of hanks in da vinci code.
x3 was a better movie...which is sad, cuz x3 isn't a very good movie.
i think this superman wanted to be "batman begins" but just didn't have the talent or script.
i waste of a great market and entertainment opportunity. why?
does anybody have any doubt the comicbook thing is over...and should be? it seems to me that hollywood is hitting comics like a cash machine, with on concept of artistry. i just hope that any "watchmen" project gets flushed permanently: it would be too painfull to see what hollywood does to it now.
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http://tinyurl.com/zl8py :P
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is about as good a BO analyst as there is. Prediction for SR: $135 million for the five days. At this rate, it's headed for about $90 mil according to Pandya. That's $45 mil less than a reasonable prediction.
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cost that much. Take in how many effect shots were in the film, Singer's deal (which I am sure involed a sequel) The amount of finished shots that were tossed out. I remember reading when they were doing The Day After Tomorrow- weeks worth of work was tossed out because the director didn't like it. Singer filmed the scene where Superman's ship lands on Krypton, or a big chunk of it floating in space (in the beginning) and he searches through the ruins of a city. When he leaves his ship passes through a kryptonite asteroid field - which is why he is so weak when he gets back home.
Those scenes were scrapped, but someone paid for them. Take in mind, The fortress coming out of the ocean, the ship cracking in two (basically a Titanic scene), the Daily Planet sphere, the plane -- shit man, I'd besurprised it it only cost 380 -
Just peruse through the user comments on Superman's IMDB page, though some of the reviews (esp. the ones that describe Frank Langella as "amazing") look suspicious.
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What is it, 9000 user ratings have given it an average rating of b+? Most people say it had unbelievable effects, better than average acting, and is a bit weak in the story department (average rating a C). IMDB is about as reliable as AICN when it comes to reviews. Heck, I'd go to Amazon, maybe even AICN, before I check out IMDB boards.
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that makes them suspect. Here at AICN, we cherry-pick our news and reviews...
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And what exactly makes Yahoo more reliable? Geez, get a grip. You'll really know what people thought based on the second weekend BO take. I predict a 50% or more drop; movie should top out just shy of $200 mil. We'll see....
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Just scrolled through the last day or two of this TB. How do you people even find the time to leave and actually see this movie? This fuckin site is like the Lost island/magnet for weiners and douchebags.
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The entire userbase of yahoo is made up of just normal internet users--end of story. IMDB is made up of movie fanboys and trolls. If you've ever checked out individual actor threads, you'd see posts advertising for fan clubs, multi-posting "I hate so and so" lurkers, and innacurate information that runs rampant, which is why it has such a dubious reputation among other websites. The yahoo user base for their reviews is roughly triple that of IMDB and composed of a larger variety of people and agendas (soccar moms, church goers, fanboys, elderly, etc.). As far as your 50% box office drop prediction, well duh! Pirates of the Caribbean is coming out next week--what else would happen? Like most of us have been saying for the past few days, Superman gets a cleen week or so to do its business and will then spend about a month or so making the rounds, earning about 30 million a week (domestically) for the next month and a half. However, it will be interesting to see what happens in a week or so because SR hasnt really had a major international release yet.
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the european release is in late july.
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between filming costs, prints, advertizing and extra's you can fiqure the movie costs 300 million. So Superman needs between 6 and 700 million dollars to break even.
As for the Box office, you do know that because of the lenght of the movie there are at least one less showing per screen [or more]
Also we must remember the north east from georgia to main have been flooded out! People were worried about losing their homes not seeing Superman returns.
So tell me how many people live in the path of that down pour 50 or 60 million? and how many people who would might have wanted to see the movie but couldn't!
The real box office or the films staying power of the film will not be known untill after pirates runs a week. Then if Superman still has decent returns you will know it has legs! -
are interesting, because when I heard Routh's voice at first, he had kind of an early Tom Cruise-ish vibe going to me.
Routh did a great job in an extremely difficult acting situation. He IS Superman, and that's AWESOME. It wasn't just his physicality, it was how he did as Clark--he nailed it.
I liked Kidder better than Bosworth, but Bosworth did a decent enough job with what she was given. -
But I also thought that Margot Kidder was a lot hotter, too (at least she was in the 1st movie). Yeah, she smoked a lot, but man did she have a pretty face and some nice legs!
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I laughed when I read your "Schumacher" post...although I agree with it in spirit, I think Schumacher was being a hack director on Batman, while Singer was being a misguided and somewhat untalented director with SR. I think he did really try to make a good film, and just failed miserably. So while I give him a D for the results, I'd give him at least a B for effort. I'm sure Schumacher just did the Batman movies for a paycheck, plain and simple, so he is a bit less admirable in my eyes. But Singer totally blew it, so I guess his motives aren't as important as what is on the big screen in the end.
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Margot Kidder was hotter for sure...Kate Bosworth perhaps has a softer and prettier look, but Margot Kidder was incredibly sexy and had amazing breasts, unlike Bosworth who probably has a large A/small B cup. You didn't see Kidder's breasts much in the Superman movies, but you know they are there. Do a Google Image search for Margot Kidder (and make sure "Safe Searc"h is off) and you will see how beautiful they were. I remember seeing pics of her in Playboy way back then as well. Bosworth is much less "womanly" and just seems asexual. Margot Kidder was/is a freak and I mean that in the best possible way.
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the development cost left behind from ratners tour of duty on it.
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...are you saying God is an X3 fan?
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I have still yet to figure out how beanpoles like Keira Knightly, Natalie Portman, and Kate Bosworth are considered sexy--they have the bodies of 12-year-old boys! Worse, it seems like all the teenagers are striving to look like these euro waifs. Just take a look at what happened to Lindsay Lohan--she looked like a totally healthy, curvy red head (not sure if that was natural) and now resembles a concentration camp refugee. I remember the days when girls grew up wanting to look like women. Ah well...
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He just hates queers.
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was the alternate title for SR.
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anyone?
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The child hasn't been exposed to our yellow SUN yet. So he wouldn't have super strength in her womb. Only when he's born. Plus he's a hybrid. Now, next question - how did superman shoot his super super sperm inside lois? Well how does superman take a piss without breaking a toilet? is it super piss? when superman spits does he break a concrete floor? no, so why would he have super sperm? All these questions have now been answered by yours truely. So now you know Brody.
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It comes with accessories, too--an inhaler, a trash can, and a piano. Enjoy!
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Best summer movie so far. I thought Brandon was amazing. love the whole superkid thing. it works as a great plot device, but my only concern is, how does it work in the skeem of things? will the sequel feature superman and his son side by side fighting crime? so the next movie they should do a kirk on superman and lex kills his son. so other than that. i was amazed how it felt like the original superman movies. and the classic sign off at the end. wow that was erie how well they copied it. bravo singer! i enjoyed myself!
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But we all know it will be continued the moment the POTC 2 thread comes out ;)
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http://tinyurl.com/mqz6y
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would've been a much more interesting and emotionally involving movie.
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Let's not forget the Lex Luther action figure with customized interchangeable wigs.
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http://tinyurl.com/rhukb
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Thanx a lot fucker's!
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Legendary kicked in $30 million more...
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Why are they releasing a sequel to Prince of the City? Mind you, it was a good film, but not one that cried for a sequel.
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just like the Superman Franchise.
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He just went a little Dave Chapelle. Shit I'd go to if I had everybody bugging me all the time(Help Me! Help Me Please! Shut the fuck up.)He just went a little farther than Africa thats all. I don't see whee all the bitchins comin from it's not like he left a $50 million contract and the funniest show on earth.. WHY DAVE Why'd you leave us... DON'T TOUCH ME!I need a minute.
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There was a very nice tribute to Christopher and Dana Reeve (not Reeves). I think putting it up front would have been detrimental to the movie, as it would be effectively saying that Routh doesn't have a chance.
Don't get me wrong, Reeve WAS Superman, but Routh did as good a job as possible. IMHO, he looks more like Tom Cruise, but y'know, without the crazy part. -
im seeking "beta testers" and or suggestions for my new "doucheman returns" videogame, ill upload the link hold on..
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I saw it again, and I liked it more the second time. It got the character right. Superman (at least in his iconic, Mort Weisenger era version, where they kept adding power on top of power) is practically the equivalent of Dr. Manhattan in the Watchmen. He's so powerful that he makes all other crimefighters irrelevant (which is why it will be very hard to make a JLA movie). What makes him different from Dr. Manhattan is that he actually cares about humans, and this is what the movie did well.
I also like that they made Richard White a decent guy and not a stereotypical snob or schmuck. There was never any sense that Clark or Superman would win back Lois, and that's fine by me. -
Being a huge fan of comic books and characters, and Bryan Singer's spin on the X-men, I was expecting something new and fresh with Superman. Instead, I felt I was jipped into paying $8.00 for more of the same. Don't get me wrong, the movie is spectacular - especially when Superman saves the plain from crashing - and the acting is good... but it was just more of the same old Superman movies with better special effects. At least with Batman Begins it was different and grittier than the previous films and we got to see more of Bruce & Alfred's relationship. The same really can't be said for Superman Returns. I think Lois's change as a mom was for the worse (she seems much more irresponsible and not quite mother-material, Richard is just an attempt to help her with her shortcomings)... Superman seemed more "emotionally" wimpy... "SuperMetroMan" and his costume looked more like pajamas, and not a true "hero-costume." It just felt like overall it was just really Superman 1 remade on a grander scale with flashier effets. Especially with the same music, opening credits, Marlon Brando, villain, plot situations, it was nothing really fresh, nothing really new, and definitely nothing super.
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see if you can borrow the conceptual designs for the Mr. Freeze dildo rocket that was used in B&R for Doucheman's ship. This alone will sell "billions" of copies. Greatest Hits anyone?
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scene three:an early test of the daily planet entrance try to get into the lobby.
http://abs.gprime.net/showflash.php?name=this_sciene&w=1000&h=800 -
It was a good reboot. They just need a new writer, better villians. I'm thinking Metallo for all those cheap execs out there. I 2 want him to leave earth for a film so he can fight some real bad guys who can match him in strength (and be as bad as he he is good)Mongul anyone. Its just everyone who does him wants it to be on earth so they can cheap out on effects. I say fuck that. I saw Sky Captain you can do most of the sets on the computer and a green screen and have it real. I don't care what they say its not that fucking expensive. Just do like Lucas did and get some in house tallent for your own CGI studio and you can cut the price of doing the effects in more than half. If they keep going to ILM and other places there going to keep going over budget and keep screwing fans and geeks out of something amazing, because they have to cut out the money seen. I'm pissed now I'm to go get a funnel cake and make some loser pay for it.
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when you get into the lobby, Courtney Ford is supposed to appear and ask you for more money. ill fix it..
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I meant to put; have the effects look real.
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Brett Ratner actually made a better movie than Bryan Singer.....WOW!
Maybe Rat can do the next Superman and Singer can go back to the X franchise.
By the way, Spider-Man 3 is gonna kick major ass, the trailer was insane.
One more thing, Margot Kidder is not in no way shape or form better looking the Kate Bosworth. She may be a better Lois Lane but she isn't better looking, don't get it twisted fellas. Bosworth does have a very flat ass, man Singer was trippin when he shot her in that kitchen scene/Superman stalker scene. By the way, was not a fan of them giving Lois and Supes a kid but you guys have to admit that shit was cool as hell when he broke dude of with the piano. -
I HOPE it means Bryan Singer gets BANNED from doing a sequel. Who am I kidding? I hope they put Superman movies on hold for the next decade. With some luck only then we will get a proper reboot.
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Man I hope that carnival has funnel cake. Or they will rue they day they didn't. You all will. Go ahead start rueing.. I'll wait
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The Rat should have done Superman, Singer should have stuck with X-Men, how the WB managed to fuck this up is beyond my comprehension.
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haha the new catchphrase of 2006! imagine singer grumbling that.
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We just want to fit in. Why must you always hurt the ones you love. My mom thinks I'm cool.
My wife doesn't but you know how bitchy thet can be. -
they can be
Gosh I'm turning into you misspelling basTards -
"TRUTH, JUSTICE AND ALL THAT STUFF!!!" Pretty much sums up everything wrong with this movie.
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heres what happens
2-7 years after the kryptonite continent is launched into space, braniac's ship gets notice of a new variant of krypton and is intrigued by the goings on on earth. As satellite feeds of earths television cycle throughout the universe, lobo's galaxy is bombarded by earth culture. Lobo is especially intrigued by the biker culture, and has a reputation for ruthlessness. Braniac recruits lobo to do his bidding, and convinces him a short trip to the far away, and much loved earth. Through his faster than anything spaceship. So as braniac arrives, he comes searching for lex luthor, the person who created the continent, and who hatches a plan to con superman and earth out of their power. LOBO meanwhile runs around starting trouble, takes some earth bikes, and battles toe to toe with superman. As superman discovers the treachery of braniac, (Titled of course by the wise cracking lobo)Lobo discovers that superman has fathered a child, who is now about 14, and lobo abducts him as braniac is defeated and escapes. Superman is then forced to leave earth once again and venture far into the galaxy to retrieve his son, how has taken a liking to the brash reckless lobo. -
I hope it begins with an elaborate musical number of Superman singing "And all that stuff". *Cause in the stratosphere, he needs to lend an ear to *DO*...*THAT*...*STUFF*....*....
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Every article, interview, and "making of" special associated with this film seems to stress how making Supes relevant to today's audience was of paramount importance to both Singer and WB. Didn't the studio already tacitly admit that whatever made the character relatable to a film audience has been done to death by producing the Matrix films? We've already been given three "90's version of Superman meets Christ" movies by Warner Bros over the last seven years. Do you guys think that has anything to do with the movie not living up to the hype or is it just bad buzz?
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saying "the american way" is going to "ruin" business in europe, but not the poor screenplay,logic holes and wooden perfomances. that is weasely. im guessing that was singer's call too, its too bad, because the sets in this movie..especially the daily planet globe & front steps, etc. wasted. shouldve been directed by kerry conran and set in the thirties, with drew carey as the lead, and jennifer conelly in that retro sky captain trend that died all too soon..
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in a way, i agree its derivative, but really good. I think the public wanted to see an arnold schwarzenegger sized superhero, but instead this superman doesnt really look like a greek god, or atlas. I dont care either way, but superman in most peoples minds is what is in the comics, and in the animated series, larger than life.
The movie isnt doing well because the film itself looks very drab, and superman is a boring idea, i mean who cares about a guy who cannot be harmed. I thought it was exciting enough, but i think there really needed to be less EMO pouting, and more insane lazer beams, hordes of villans, etc. Thats why people enjoyed X3, there was more crazy battles, i mean thats why we love superheros right? We, as in the general public, not fanboy public. There just needed to be more superman being tested physically, rather than emotionally for this film to have been a blockbuster. -
the 777 not being able to carry a shuttle is CRAP! The 747, which we all know HAS carried the shuttle has four engines rated around 40,000 pounds of thrust. The 777 has two engines rated at 85,000 pounds of thrust. Do the math! I work for an airline, so I would know. I work the 777 often.
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As the 777 obviously has much more than 747. It was a weight issue.
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Taking that into consideration then, we can assume or not assume that the proper mods were made to the 777 to accomodate the weight. The 777 also has the advantage of a better wing design that has more lift than a 747. So, I am leaning in your direction on this, but, I really went to the movie to see Superman fly, not airplanes.
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SR has much bigger problems...
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I thought this was an even bigger waste of 2 1/2 hours than DaVinci Code. I mean the characters were boaring, the acting by everyone but spacey was awful (Lex Luthor was the only thing I liked about the movie), and every special effect shot looked horribly computer generated. I was hoping for another flick as good as Batman Begins, and what I got was something I would compare to Batman and Robin.
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classic superman=reeve
emo superman=routh
DC SUPERMAN= Evan Mariott.
and for the sake of newness, the "kid as political football" plotline is good. but no more lois . she marries the other guy and just plays his friend/conscience... show more of kent actually reporting/investigating. can anyone say what routh was doing in the offices besides easdropping? "thank you for giving me my job back?' Langella shouldve said "WTF do you do here besides flirting with olson?" just have him work/regret working at Foxnews, opposite oreilly, tuckercarlson, and a ghastly flirty ann coulter and make him hate it. and multiple villains, like spidey..giant robots, zod, luthor and dammit, female pulcrhitude. bosworth and posey? because theyre non threatening and wont take singer's man, thats why. give us anna benson as lois lane.god thats perfect. evan marriott and annabenson.. with spacey, and sam jackson as brainiac..and then ZOd? and michael bay directing? with hans zimmer? okay stop.
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I'm relevant! Damn it! So lonely..so so lonely...
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Your post was missing the "Do not debate me" line, which would have been classic. Also, just to further add to the geek argument, a fully crewed shuttle with fuel would weigh far, far more than what the 777 could handle.
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YES, I know Singer was worried about comparisons with J. Jonah Jameson from Spidey (played to absolute perfection by J.K. Simmons) but that doesn't mean he had to be a total bore. Why not base him on Pinch from the NYT? Or Hearst? Or any other number of interesting real-life characters? Ugh...
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save perhaps for the C-17 galaxy (in terms of sheer weight, not a plane on its back)
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Looks like I was right. Bringing back Lex Luther again was a dumb idea. Superman, hell all of DC's characters suck. As will Wonder Woman. Sorry Firefly/Buffy fans but it's the truth, justice, and all that stuff.
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It's still gonna be a huge success and it's loved more than hated. so haters. you lose!
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it's not gonna work. not even comparing it to batman & robin. the ridiculous comments you have to read in this place lol
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it was supposed to build up to and end with singer framing routh holding the car in the exact way as depicted on "Action Comics No.1" cover with the people fleeing in the cover's exact places. that is iconic, and of course by this crew, overlooked. a real director would not have missed this. http://www.allstarauctions.net/images/action.jpg
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The new land mass that superman threw into outerspace hits the record album the phantom zone villians are trapped in, thus breaking them free. oh wait.
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It's already down. Bringing it down further would just be cruel.
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zfisk, I thought they did pay homage to it in the photo on Perry White's desk when he was complaining that a 12-year old kid with a cell phone took it. Maybe not...
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I know the dude had issues..that stockerman shit creeped me out. The kid I let go its a leson to kids to not bang each other without protection cause even one time. And you kiss the broad and make her forget you did bang her can lead to something terminal. Like kids. I fucking hate you guys you have me nit-picking now. Yes the Luthor land scheme was retarded. Yes he did know that Superman coudn't get at him hence the kryptonite around the crystal. He did know other [eople would try to blow him up but he planned on using the alien tech to stop all attacks, he did stand and listen to Jor-El talk about the crystals and how to shave and make spagehtti and shit like that. Circa My Life with Micheal Keaton that was heart warming. Any way he figured the continent of solitude has weapons and gadgets all ready growing in it. He's a nut not an idiot. Also Luthor left the kid on the boat because his dumbass henchmen told him that one of his stongest thugs was killed by a piano whom presumbably he thought the kid did it,AAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNDDD he tried to get the kid sick with kryptonite and that didn't work. So any man half as smart as him and from the answer he got back from them is that they put the kid in a storage room. He was like fuck that I'm not getting killed by that little fucker. So he ran away. Remember he who fights and runs away live to fight another day. Plus Supes can't do anything around that much kryptonite. I think actually when he waived that kryptonite in front of the kid it actually turned on his kryptonian DNA that had been repressed by the 2 shots of red sun he as a sperm had been exposed to, when daddy wanted to screw mom and then to take away Zod and his folks powers. Just a thought.
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the chicken littles are on a roll and they arent going to let little things like objectivity and attentiveness get in the way of their wailing.
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and other people who have bad taste or have the movie dreamed up in their head, and when it's not like their vision. they bash it. you hating the movie has no effect on my love of the movie. how does that make you feel? you thought you'd make everyone join your little hatewagon. lets make another episode I outta this movie. haha nice try. it's critical and boxoffice success! too bad! hahaha!
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not me.
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im so sick of kryptonite, and how easy it is to get it. its like every time a villain easily gets hold of kryptonite somewhere. its supposed to be extremely rare. i guess 7eleven has it in stock now. it just a crutch for bad writers. new supes law: no more green deadly rocks. no more lois lane. move. on. new characters. new places. the kid=will be the new "kryptonite"
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And if you think this movie is a box-office success, you are living in some bizarre fantasy world and whatever you're smoking, I want some.
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I didn't like Kate Bosworth in anything she's done. I hate her in this. And she has no tops or bottoms thats inexcusable. McAdams would have been better. Or Erica Durance she at least has some fire to her, and I hate her in smallville. They could come out with a smallville movie under the Elsworlds title. That way all millville fans can have there big screen geekgasm
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You arent seriously trying to say that a 30-something million dollar gross in 3 weekdays not a success? Box office guru and mojo are both estimating a 95 million draw for its first five days. How is that not sucessful, again? As every article has pointed out, as every talkbacker and objective person has pointed out, that is a successful run. Sure, its not "holy shit, how does it get that high" numbers, but its still a successful opening by ALL accounts. How can someone who claims to be objective make such asenine and obviously disproven comments when the evidence is staring them right in the face? And you wonder why people bring up ayn rand...
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they (he, really) actually believe(s) that a megabudget film can be "hated" into abyssmally low box office performance. if the film bombs its because of "hatewagons"..idiot..the only wagon here is the 'cheech n chong' Beetle Van youre driving..roll the windows down so the smoke can get out. http://tinyurl.com/nmbrm
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Stop it. The movie was good. Although I was forced nit-pick myself, I still think it will do well. I think the length of the movie may be whats hampering it right now. but everyone I've met has liked the movie. So all you haters can go fuck yourself with black kryptonite. and cover your potc2 loving pussies with one of Lex's wigs. and unlike you I'll being seeing that 2. cause i can spend more then $10's over a 3 month period.
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I'm glad to see your still clinging to your conspiracy theories. Anything anti semitic for us, too?
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I know its hard, but for one moment, think logically. If I were harry, don't you think I'd have banned you by now? I mean, if you were banned for the antics that you've seemed to have started again as Zfisk, wouldnt I have banned you in less than thirty seconds? Ah, crap in a hat! Look what I'm doing--i'm trying to explain things to a paranoid sociopath.
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is success then YES, SR is a rousing success. If expecting $130+ million for 5 days and only coming up with $90 million is success, then YES...
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its a lot easier than smearing/framing me for doing absolutely nothing wrong.
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i should point out that you feel BB is a successful movie. However, SR is outperforming BB. Again, its all how you look at it, Galt. But again, from your perspective, I suppose, a film has to earn 150 million its first week, or its a flop, hmm? Well, since you seem intent on just cherry picking your correlations, providing ZERO evidence to back up your claims, and refusing to even listen to reason, I think you've officially become this year's successor to Moviemack and Ringbearer. Oh well, had to happen to somebody, I suppose. Admittedly, you're a lot more polite, so there's something, I suppose.
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look at this guy backpedalling. he was telling everyone superman is going to own yer asses,record numbers, etc." WRONNNNGGGG!!!!
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for being the worst editor/spell checker.
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when i asked you the question of who expected 130, it was a rhetorical question referring to Harry and co here at the good ole Aint it Biased News. When I read my post, it didnt seem as clear as I was intending it to--sorry..
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I don't know why people give a shit about the box office numbers. Hell, the movie could bomb and my opinion wouldn't change that this was still a smart film with some interesting themes.
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Just as the lights were about to go down, about twenty high school girls showed up and sat in front of me and on the side. And let me tell those of you who do not think this is connecting to an audience. Well it is connected, for better or worse, with these girls. When Routh first showed up on screen, one of the girls says, "Oh he is soooo hot." Then when we put the 3D glasses on another tries to touch his face. After every action scene they clapped louder than the geek squad. Then when the film is over, one in front of me turns to her friend and says, "That was like the best movie I've EVER seen." I shit you not. This REALLY was not a comic book film geared to comic geeks.
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at www.boxofficeguru.com predicted $135 million for 5 days and you can bet WB was thinking the same.
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BWAHAHAHAHAHA. On a web site? hahahahaha!! oh me! That is some very, very humorous stuff. And the funny/pitiable/pathetic part of it is that you are probably serious. Worse, you actually care that you were banned! From a stupid little website, no less! And then, you try to defend yourself, as though our opinions actually matter to you! Bwahahaha! My god, I dont believe I've met anyone so insignificant, so small, in my life--even anonomously. Its like watching a field mouse defend its right to a crumb of rotten food, too stupid and too miniscule to understand the utter insignificance of its existence. Homewrecker, I'm going to make it very plain--I dont care about you. Your mind, your feelings, and even your voice is far too wasted, far too unimportant, to warrant even one more minute of my attention.
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if this took place after Superman II, can someone explain how or if Lois knew Superman was the father or her child? I mean she shouldn't even know they kissed let alone had a baby.
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They were great. There are four times in the film when this happens: the flashback to Clark in Smallville; the shuttle/plane rescue; the yacht rescue; and the very final scene before the credits of Superman flying. The first few times were a bit disruptive to the standard film-viewing process (in the audience people whispering "where are my glasses). The cg portions were fantastic - really breathtaking. The scenes that used actors seemed to degrade a bit - especially in the first two sequences. But the yacht rescue in IMAX 3D was FANTASTIC. Very cool and gave me a lot of anticipation for the use of IMAX 3D in the future.
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...worships a group whose homophobic lead singer is rumored to be a "man's man". You know what they say about people who protest too much...
Oh yeah, this movie was a big disappointment. I loved X2, and so I thought he could do no wrong here. Well, he could and did. At this point I really think I would have rathe rhave seen Abrams version, as lame-tarded as that sounded. This flick falls in the same category as PJ's King Kong, another over-long over-indulgence. I did like Routh, Bosworth, Cyclops dude and Spacey though. The script just sucked. So did the kid. -
Thats my problem--just cause an analyst says something, doesnt make it true. Oh, Im sure all his little facts, trends, and deomographics research was screaming 130 million, especially given the very positive critical reaction this film has received. The problem is, no one can predict how these things work with any certainty. Movies that were certain to fail do great while movies that seemed destined to smash records sink faster than Luca Brazzi with concrete shoes. And one thing is deffinitely for certain: you cannot analyze these things until the game is over. What you are doing, Galt, is trying to call the outcome of a game before the end of the 1st inning. Its premature and ultimately pointless. Again, the only reason I'm even debating this with you is because I consider you a good guy to argue with-its very fun (as psychotic as that sounds) and you never act harshly with others (well, in comparison to other talkbackers ;) ). In any case, its time for beddie-bye. I wish you a good night, Galt.
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With international box office, DVD, and all the toys and pajamas and other knick knacks they will sell with the Superman logo on them, the film will be profitable. But at least it won't be the windfall they were expecting. If they even make a sequel, the budget will be so drastically reduced that the film will suffer. So this is probably the de facto end of the franchise, for all practical purposes.
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I AM A GREAT GUY.
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I want a sequel so as to finish the goddamn story line. As stupid as that sounds, I really hate having unfinished plots--especially ones I find to be interesting. Yeah, its selfish, but you all need to see the movie 10 times so I can get my sequel ;)
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now, will there? lol! goodnight!
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With Singer being so reverent about the continuity, it struck me a bit odd when Ma Kent says something like,"With such a big universe, there have to be others like you out there." I thought Clark should have looked here in the eye and said, "Yeah those three assholes who almost killed me five years ago?" Ok, I know Superman wouldn't cuss but I'm embellishing here!
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you said harry's name and tried to infer that i said it first, when i never said his name. that is framing. with that twisted conniving spinning wordsmith mouth of yours you should be an attorney not some mindfreak hallmonitor here. shut. up.. youre better off playing your sissy "John Delancey" mindgames here, believe me you wouldnt last five seconds in the real world with that mouth talking elitist junk, you brokeback pussy. go see the movie 12 more times with your Addams family so you can be right.
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In the hospital after the doctor's cut it. Is it a magical suit that repairs itself? I wonder about these things.
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Doesn't the Fortress of Solitude in the comic have an elaborate security system. I mean in Alan Moore's "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" Braniac had to create a forcefield to keep Superman IN the Fortress. A brilliant move which actually ended up leading to the demise of Lana Lang and the retirement of the Silver Age Superman - and at the end of the story he is just living with Lois... and their kid. I love that story.
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gotcha bitch! The only idiots here are the ones that take me seriously.
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I'll go see it ten mo' times if you and everybody else go out and buy a shit-load of The Chronicles of Riddick dvds' because i really want to see Alex Proyas complete the proposed trilogy.
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i'm offended now.
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first thing that I felt was off was that he left the farm way too early. The whole thing seemed, "Hey Mom, I'm back. Gotta bounce. See Ya!" They cut the scene where he meets the man whose place Martha was leaving. Then, in the originals Lois and Clark didn't always meet eye to eye, but I felt they had respect for each other. In RETURNS it's more like she's the prom queen, he's the class nerd, and I didn't like that(also, Superman doesn't who Clark Kent is?? WTF). I'm also on the "Not Lex Again" train, but mainstream audience knows about him so they put him in again, I get it. The kid is fine with me, at least it's something new and I agree that it was good idea to not make Richard a dick(hmmm...). Overall I liked the movie, but I think they should've expanded the lore instead retreading it. One question, what was the purpose of putting Kal Penn in this movie without using his talents? Actually one more question..can Parker Posey be in a comic book movie that doesn't involve evil dogs?
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I just saw it again with my wife this time, and my wife is not a geek she has no previous point of reference or baggage and she thought it was great. I thought it was a stunning movie to watch with some nitpicks. I really enjoyed it, I just wish the story was more original. If you look back upon these TB's you'll see there will never be world piece because we want to strangle each other over a movie!!! We so desparately want to change the others minds.We Liked/loved it, let's leave it at that. The chronic haters wanted the movie they Faux produced Faux directed and Faux written. They had massive baggage, carved in stone characters with no leway. Yes it's a sad existance that causes real psyhcological depravity and a warped sense of reality (Bad box office and such). The movie is a critical success (for the majority) and most people seem to like it. That's it that's the bottom line, I know this forum is set up to discuss but it no longer is a discussion it's hating, bating and just bitter. The movie was very good! saying other wise does not make it a reality, you give the haters too much credit. Peace all.
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I thought a couple or four of you stated that you weren't going to see this crap, and yet there you were. Soaking up the homoseual vision of a homosexual director. Not that there's anything wrong with that. If that's what he chooses to do with his life. You guys are just hating because you couldn't Rouths package closer with your 3D glasses. Pore pathetic homophobes. You guys are all the dad in American Beauty with Nazi memoriablia. You claim to hate everything gay but in fact swing that way yourself. Just Sad.Remeber there will be a DVD so you can Zoom in on Rouths junk in the privacy of your mom's basement.
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cmon. INT: WB HQ:SINGER: "give "kumar" a line? uh, we're going for "epic", not some road comedy"(never mind that they have goofball Parker 'Pepsi'..) or when they did that pandering "hey blacks we didnt forget ya" Shaq spot and had him show up at the premiere, when it dawned on the marketers that "Woah! we need somebody who's not white in this movie!! quick! call that white castle dude.. and get that basketball guy for the premiere, yeah that should be enough."
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he did get a line..his name was in the opening credits. WB must have made SAG Chairman use his "emergency powers" to pull that off.
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I didn't see black people in he movie. What ever the first 2 didn't have any either. Just as long as they never do another steel movie with Shaq. What were they thinking in the first place. I threw up a little in my mouth whatching that abortion. I would like to a green lantern movie. It should focus on John Stewart to build off the success of the JLU and the Daily show because kids are stupid. Theyll be thinkin it JS from the daily show talkin about how much everything is better with weed. Then they'll see this big black bald (I'm thinking Vingh Ramhes, because he has the stature and huskey voice, OH yeah! This is the kicker he can act)marine. Helping his friend in a battle against Sinestro (has to be someone interesting) then getting this ring as his friend lays battered from some shit he just can't fathom. Then as he puts on the ring his friend (Hal Jordan) ask him what he's gonna do? Answer I'm going to get mid-evil on his ass. Of course Tarantino would have to direct.
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Jul 01, 2006 11:50:40 PM CDT