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The $12 HD TERMINATOR!! The Blu-ray Era Begins Now!! Herc's HDTV Cellar!!

I am – Hercules!!

“I have an HD DVD player and about ten or so films, but in no way, shape or form am I rich. However, if one is to buy a Blu-Ray player, one would indeed need to be rich. ;-)”
____________________-- talkbaker "Shawn F.," June 14, 2006

The first batch of Blu-ray titles goes on sale today, with the first Blu-ray player, the Samsung BD-P1000, hitting the market next Sunday.

Sony has invested many a dollar in the Blu-ray format, and Sony Pictures Home Entertainment (SPHE) is issuing about 15,000 copies of each of its June 20 Blu-ray titles.

So is "Shawn F." right? Who’s buying the Samsung Blu-ray? The players start at $999, while Toshiba’s rival HD-DVD player is retailing for $499.99.

An excerpt from last Friday’s Blu-ray story in The Hollywood Reporter:

[SPHE president Benjamin] Feingold said the initial batch of Sony Blu-ray Disc titles will feature some, but not all, of the bonus materials found on the DVD versions.

"Our strategy is to have the best resolution," Feingold said. "We are devoted to increasing the bit rate as high as you can, and we're finding that even with 25 gigabytes we could use more capacity. So we are looking forward to having a 50-gigabyte disc available, starting toward the end of summer."

Huh. Some of the HD-DVD discs are already carrying MORE extras than the DVD versions; what kind of strategy necessitates the Blu-ray sets carrying FEWER extras than their SD DVD counterparts?? If capacity’s an issue on these Blu-Ray discs, why not just include an extra disc or two?? I tell ya, it’s like Sony is begging consumers to steer clear of the Blu-ray format!

I exchanged some e-mail this week with someone who said he was already snapping up Blu-ray discs, but had no intention of buying either the the Samsung player or Sony Blu-Ray player due in August. His plan is to wait till November, when the $600 PlayStation 3 unit – which is expected to play Blu-ray movies (as well as videogames) – hits the market.

When I asked why he made the early move to Blu-ray, he cited his reasons:

Technically I think the format is superior. The HD DVD camp even states that their format is evolutionary. They tout it as an advantage. What we need is revolutionary. I make my living as a video editor and am VERY picky when it comes to audio/video quality. I happen to think that most DVDs look pretty crappy. I constantly see video artifacts.

Blu Ray's "bit bucket" is much larger than HD DVDs. There is also potential for better audio as well. More bits is better. The hybrid discs that have HD DVD on one side and DVD on the other are pointless. I'm looking forward. Not back

Sony has been stupid many times in the past with proprietary technology. This time it is Toshiba who is being stupid. They are the betamax (although Blu Ray is technically superior-theoretically). There are far more companies in the Blu Ray camp. More importantly there are far more studios who have pledged their support to BD. And we all know content is king. I think Universal will eventually come around.

I believe the PS3 is the "killer app" that will crush HD DVD (if Sony doesn't screw the pooch somehow). The cheapest HD DVD player is the $499 Toshiba. Coincidentally that was the price of their first DVD player in '97.

For $100 more you get a player that plays CDs, DVDs, hidef movies and every PS 1 and PS 2 game you own plus whatever games they have in store for us. The XBOX 360 will cost the same once they add the HD DVD external drive-but no HDMI outputs!!!

Those are my "rational" reasons". Here are my political emotional ones:

Any technology that Micro$oft is behind-I'm against. They always steal/copy other company's ideas or technology and they always do a shitty job copying it. I don't think their VC-1 technology is going anywhere. Too many companies hate/fear Mico$oft. I was at the NAB show in Vegas last April. MPEG4 (AVC) was everywhere. VC-1 not so much. I attended a Micro$oft demo and they actually lied about MPEG4. Just pathetic.

I am against Toshiba. They "won" the first DVD war when Sony capitulated to a bonded disc structure. We'll see how DVDs hold up over the long term. Remember "laser rot" in laserdiscs? I still am expecting something like that to happen with DVD. I've got some older discs that no longer play. Toshiba also never supported the DVD+R/+RW format. It is superior in many ways to -R/-RW and everyone else's players will play those discs. But not Toshiba's.

I started buying DVDs on a rainy March day in 1997. It was several months before I bought a player (I was waiting for the Sony 7000-which still works BTW). I owned many CDs in the early '80s before I bought a player (my roommate had one). So PS3, Sony BD player or LG combo player? I don't know yet. There's an open DVI input on my tv. I already have a HDMI to DVI cable connected. My HD DVR is hooked up via component so I'm ready to rock.

I don’t know a “bit bucket” from a tub of cream cheese (and own many a fine Toshiba product), but unless you’ve got money to burn (and I know some of you do), this “waiting for the PS3” idea strikes me as a sound one. (Of course, I’ve got my HD-DVD unit to play with in the meantime.)

A1 or XA1? Speaking of which. Toshiba makes two HD-DVD players, the HD-A1, which retails for about $500, and the HD-XA1, which goes for about $800. Why did I decide to go with the cheaper model? I read this excellent DVD Town piece offering a rundown of what you get for the extra $300. A key excerpt:

If it’s simply picture and sound quality you care about and not a heavier case, fancy feet, and a lighted remote, the A1 clearly represents the better value. If you feel you have to go the extra mile and you’re not afraid to pay for it, the XA1 is currently the best (and best looking) HD-DVD machine you can buy.

10 percent more off all HD - for a year?? Whether you go with HD-DVD, Blu-ray or (like me) both, you can get Amazon to knock off an additional 10 percent off any HD-DVD or Blu-Ray discs for the next year (up to $5000 worth), if you purchase any of these things you were probably going to purchase anyway:
* three HD-DVDs purchased in one order;
* three Blu-ray discs purchased in one order;
* any HD-DVD player;
* any Blu-ray player; or
* any HDTV set.

This means we’re actually going to be able to buy the HD versions of certain movies for less than the SD versions! Learn how to take advantage of this promotion here.

IME Part Two. As discussed two weeks ago, The $19.99 HD-DVD version of “Constantine” contains all of the DVD version’s many many extras, plus something new called IME or “In-Movie Experience.” It’s described on the back cover thusly: “As you view the movie, director Francis Lawrence leads an interactive exploration of the story, characters, stunts and filmmaking process.” If you missed it, “a_guy” added this clarification of the feature in the last HDTV Cellar talkback:

The In Movie Experience is sweet, what happens is when you are watching say Bourne or Constaintine... The movie DOES NOT STOP when you open the menu and then when you choose a feature it automatically starts right overtop the current film, sorta a picture in picture deal, then movie once again NEVER STOPS... which really makes for a kick ass experience …

Cool!!



Herc’S HD Pic of the Week!! I can imagine no finer way to launch your Blu-ray collection on this first day of the Blu-ray Era than with “The Terminator,” which garners five stars out of five on the Herc scale. "Wash day tomorrow? Nothing clean, right?" "Hey, just what you see, pal!" "Fuck you, asshole!" You know you want to see Arnold Schwarzenegger make mincemeat of huffy boyfriend Rick Rossovich in HD! Amazon has knocked a whopping 59 percent off the Blu-ray HD version of the title, which means the cost to you is only $11.99 ($10.79 if you wisely use the 10-percent-off deal described in the last paragraph).

HD Disc Calendar

Already Out There
Apollo 13 (HD-DVD) $24.49
Assault on Precinct 13 (HD-DVD) $24.49
Blazing Saddles (HD-DVD) $25.99 <--- NEW!!
The Bourne Supremacy (HD-DVD) $24.49
The Chronicles of Riddick (HD-DVD) $24.49
Chronos (BLU-RAY) $21.99
Cinderella Man (HD-DVD) $24.49
Constantine (HD-DVD) $19.99
Doom (HD-DVD) $24.49
Firewall (DVD/HD-DVD) $27.99
The Fugitive (HD-DVD) $19.99
Full Metal Jacket (HD-DVD) $25.99
Goodfellas (HD-DVD) $19.99
Jarhead (HD-DVD) $24.49
The Last Samurai (HD-DVD) $19.99
Million Dollar Baby (HD-DVD) $21.99
The Perfect Storm (HD-DVD) $19.99
The Phantom of the Opera (HD-DVD) $19.99
Rumor Has It (HD-DVD) $27.99
Serenity (HD-DVD) $24.49
Swordfish (HD-DVD) $19.99
Training Day (HD-DVD) $19.99
Unforgiven (HD-DVD) $21.99
U-571 (HD-DVD) $24.49
Van Helsing (HD-DVD) $24.49

Last Week




Happy Gilmore (HD-DVD) $24.49 <--- NEW!!




The Rundown (HD-DVD) $27.99 <--- NEW!!
16 Blocks (HD-DVD) $29.99 <--- NEW!!

June 20
The Fifth Element (BLU-RAY) $19.99
50 First Dates (BLU-RAY) $19.99
Hitch (BLU-RAY) $19.99
House of Flying Daggers (BLU-RAY) $19.99
A Knight's Tale (BLU-RAY) $19.99
The Last Waltz (BLU-RAY) $19.99
The Terminator (BLU-RAY) $11.99
Underworld Evolution (BLU-RAY) $27.29
XXX (BLU-RAY) $19.99

June 27
Crash (BLU-RAY) $27.99
Lord of War (BLU-RAY) $27.99
The Punisher (BLU-RAY) $20.99
Saw (BLU-RAY) $20.99
Terminator 2 (BLU-RAY) $20.99
Ultraviolet (BLU-RAY) $19.99

July 11 Basic Instinct 2 (BLU-RAY) $26.99 <--- NEW!!
Friday Night Lights (HD-DVD) $24.49




Pitch Black (HD-DVD) $24.49

July 25
Benchwarmers (BLU-RAY) $26.99 <--- NEW!!
Kung Fu Hustle (BLU-RAY) $20.29
Legends of the Fall (BLU-RAY) $20.29
Resident Evil: Apocalypse (BLU-RAY) $19.99
Species (BLU-RAY) $20.29
Stealth (BLU-RAY) $20.29
S.W.A.T. (BLU-RAY) $20.29

August 15
The Big Hit (BLU-RAY) $19.99
Into The Blue (BLU-RAY) $19.99
Memento (BLU-RAY) $19.99
Robocop (BLU-RAY) $20.29
Sense and Sensibility (BLU-RAY) $19.99

August 22
The Bone Collector (HD-DVD) $20.99 <--- NEW!!
The Interpreter (HD-DVD) $20.99 <--- NEW!!
Spy Game (HD-DVD) $20.99 <--- NEW!!







Readers Talkback
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  • June 20, 2006, 1:45 a.m. CST

    Vin Diesel has very manly breasts

    by VanLingoMungo

    Sorry, I really have nothing to contribute, I&#39;m just on a mission to prevent first posters. I hope I&#39;ve succeeded. Carry on.

  • June 20, 2006, 1:51 a.m. CST

    Your mom is first.

    by Venardhi

    Oh Sony, can you avoid fucking up for 6 months? It&#39;ll be a challenge for you I know, but please, please find a way.

  • June 20, 2006, 1:55 a.m. CST

    DOROTHY MANTOOTH IS A SAINT!

    by VanLingoMungo

    No need to bring mothers into anything. Very poor form.

  • June 20, 2006, 1:55 a.m. CST

    Can&#39;t stand Sony

    by seanny_d

    They make some really nice products. My TV and DVD-RW drive in addition to my PS2 are all sony branded. But their greed and cockiness goes far beyond almost anything I see from any other company. This Blu-ray stuff is going to be for a tiny percentage of the market. I would say that the leap from VHS to DVD for a good portion of the population has absolutely nothing to do with how good that stuff looks, but the fact that it was smaller and you didn&#39;t have to rewind it. Convenience before anything else. People who read this site and other movie buffs appreciate the good stuff. And I&#39;m interested in HD as much as the next guy. I certainly want a PS3 but I have a feeling that even though you get a Blu ray player with your PS3 the majority of consumers could give two shits. They&#39;re going to see $600 for a game machine. And I think it could hurt them. I&#39;m certainly in no hurry to replace my DVD collection although I&#39;m sure I&#39;ll get around to it.

  • June 20, 2006, 2:22 a.m. CST

    So freaking stupid

    by onetrueking

    I can&#39;t believe that the next generation of HD movies actually got split into 2 camps. It&#39;s so dumb.

  • June 20, 2006, 2:25 a.m. CST

    My Question Re: the Whole HD/BR thing is...

    by Boxclocke

    ... since when was DVD resolution not good enough? Granted I don&#39;t own an HDTV, but from what I&#39;ve heard from tech blogs and the one person I know with an HDDVD player, from fifteen feet away on your living room couch, the difference between these "superior" formats and a standard DVD is negligable. I love fancy new stuff as much as the next guy, but I&#39;m going to sit back and wait awhile (as in three or four years) on this one. I just don&#39;t see the need yet.

  • June 20, 2006, 2:27 a.m. CST

    Boxcloke, it&#39;s very easy to understand

    by VanLingoMungo

    The BluRays play in Tampa Bay, and HD plays in Colorado. Hope that helps.

  • June 20, 2006, 2:37 a.m. CST

    Wait for the next format

    by ZeroCorpse

    Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are both doomed. Better to wait and see what&#39;s around the corner. This is just a grab for power and dollars, nothing more.

  • June 20, 2006, 2:37 a.m. CST

    Sony fanboyism

    by Rob 3k

    "I make my living as a video editor and am VERY picky when it comes to audio/video quality. I happen to think that most DVDs look pretty crappy. I constantly see video artifacts." Ok I can accept that. Though this attitude doesn&#39;t decide the "winner". Joe-Bob at Wal-mart gets to decide whether to spend $500 or $1000. BR better lower their prices soon. "His plan is to wait till November, when the $600 PlayStation 3 unit" Which by then, the PS3 will be the cheapest, but crappiest Blu Ray player on the market. Oh-kay. "And we all know content is king" Content changes. Content didn&#39;t help Divx at all. "Any technology that Micro$oft is behind-I&#39;m against. They always steal/copy other company&#39;s ideas or technology and they always do a shitty job copying it." So really the guy is just anti-Microsoft (he even spells it with a dollar sign, how cute). The only thing Sony has over Microsoft is that they are smaller. Both companies love their expensive, proprietary formats and both companies are pretty unoriginal.

  • June 20, 2006, 2:45 a.m. CST

    This is like

    by VanLingoMungo

    The Catholic/Eastern Orthodox split. I hope that the BluRay/HD schism doesn&#39;t result in the election of two separate popes. Actually, I don&#39;t really care if it does. I&#39;m a practicing Zoroastrian.

  • June 20, 2006, 2:55 a.m. CST

    I have my VHS and my DVD of Terminator

    by CuervoJones

    I love that movie in a extreme way, but i love my money too. This abuse must stop.

  • June 20, 2006, 3:09 a.m. CST

    lol

    by SG7

    "They always steal/copy other company&#39;s ideas or technology and they always do a shitty job copying it." BlueRay supports VC1, the MSFT (or is that M$FT?)codec. So you loose anyway, retard. With advanced codecs like MP4/AVC and VC1 both formats have more than enough bits for pristine 1080p content that meet any quality bar. So he edits video. Chances are he doesn&#39;t know sqaut about the actual technology he uses. Typical artsy fartsy mouse pusher. You don&#39;t need to be Shakespaere to use a word processor and you don&#39;t need to be Michael Kahn to edit film.

  • June 20, 2006, 3:21 a.m. CST

    I see this argument

    by VanLingoMungo

    Floating off into a region of geekdom that, inexorably, leads to "Oh, Yeah, well 001010100011101001010!" And then the next guy says "That&#39;s bullshit, I believe 1101101010110011010011001010." The future of AICN talbacks is binary, folks, and I am not equipped for it.

  • June 20, 2006, 3:50 a.m. CST

    Sad to say, but I think HDTV has won already

    by RMcD3

    Aside from having built up a running head start, don&#39;t underestimate the selling power of the name. The average consumer just about knows what HDTV is now, they know what DVD is, so it doesn&#39;t take any great leap to figure out what HD-DVD is. They aren&#39;t going to have the first idea what Blu-Ray means unless they have a special interest or some inkling of laser technology (which they don&#39;t). And Sony seems determined to drop the ball with the PS3, by developing a mass market games console, then pricing themselves out of the mass market, then trying to justify it on the basis of the built-in media player, which ought to be a nice extra in a games machine, not its raison d&#39;etre. Its as though Nintendo had bolted a betamax player to the top of the original NES, and then tried to flog them for $600 on the basis that it was cheaper than any other betamax player..

  • June 20, 2006, 4:01 a.m. CST

    Unrelated: question about spelling

    by Killah_Mate

    I admit I&#39;m not a native English speaker, but I was always under the impression that the verb describing a diminishing value of some kind is "to lose", whereas "to loose" means roughly the same as getting your groove on, or at least unbuttoning your pants. Ditto "loser"/"looser". I&#39;ve been seeing both on the Net for years now. Any native speakers care to enlighten me?

  • June 20, 2006, 4:07 a.m. CST

    Glad to help Killah

    by VanLingoMungo

    "Losing" means, in fact, to diminish in value, to be in the act of being defeated, or to misplace. The only reason you see "loose" in the place of "lose" is because the average American contributor here has the intellectual capacity of a telephone pole. In other words, they are losers, not loosers. In most cases, you&#39;re best friend for guidance in these situations is www.dictionary.com

  • June 20, 2006, 4:09 a.m. CST

    Oh, and

    by VanLingoMungo

    Good luck to whatever team is representing you in the World Cup.

  • June 20, 2006, 4:09 a.m. CST

    Also:as long as it&#39;s 1080p, I&#39;m okay with either format

    by Killah_Mate

    I was in the Blu-Ray camp for a long time because it seemed very likely HD-DVD would only be 1080i, and I hate interlacing with a fiery passion. Now the first players and discs are out, and they&#39;re all (supposedly) 1080p, so it&#39;s all good. Although I&#39;d like Blu-Ray&#39;s higher capacity to win, simply so I can someday watch The Return of the King in hidef without swapping discs (whenever I have to swap or turn over a DVD, the first thing I think of is Amiga, and I really don&#39;t feel hi-tech doing it).

  • June 20, 2006, 4:12 a.m. CST

    by Ridge

    "Any technology that Micro$oft is behind-I&#39;m against. They always steal/copy other company&#39;s ideas or technology and they always do a shitty job copying it." Im sorry pal but you lost me right there. Sony is just as bad as Microsoft, it&#39;s just that MS has a more open public profile about stealing tech, whereas Sony steals and claims it as their own. If you were, say, for REAL? with debating the pro&#39;s and cons, you would&#39;ve talked about the real issues. Instead of being a sony-fanboy. I myself love my xbox360, I&#39;ll get a hddvd player, I also want a ps3 and a bluray player. But unlike yourself, I guess I wont shut myself off from such things with blind anti-company stupidity.

  • June 20, 2006, 4:17 a.m. CST

    Hey buddy you also forgot :

    by Ridge

    "The XBOX 360 will cost the same once they add the HD DVD external drive-but no HDMI outputs!!!" Obviously you didnt read about the lower end PS3 sku. It too has no HDMI outputs and will not be able to play Blurays at max resolution. But I&#39;m sure you knew that...

  • June 20, 2006, 4:17 a.m. CST

    "Kick-Ass Experience"

    by CatVutt

    Yeah, the ability to access menus while "Constantine" continues to play is MY definition of "Kick-Ass". Right up there with watching my dog shit and piss at the same time. HVD, people. Wait for HVD. It&#39;s only a few more years.

  • June 20, 2006, 4:20 a.m. CST

    VanLingoMungo

    by Killah_Mate

    Thanks, for the explanation (I figured as much, but good to be sure) and the good wishes (and, considering how our team&#39;s done so far, we could sure use the luck :)

  • June 20, 2006, 4:26 a.m. CST

    Oh, Killah, you can&#39;t do that

    by VanLingoMungo

    You have to tell me who your team is. Aussie Aussie Aussie, Oy Oy Oy? Team Tablecloth (Croatia)? Togo? Tribago? Serbegro? I must know.

  • June 20, 2006, 5:01 a.m. CST

    That guy won&#39;t buy because of Microsoft?

    by photoboy

    Yet he&#39;ll buy Sony products? Sony are just as bad as MS if not worse. Blu-ray is restrictive and crap, I&#39;ll be rooting for HD-DVD all the way. Although I&#39;ll not be buying either until the dust settles and we know which is the real winner.

  • June 20, 2006, 5:37 a.m. CST

    VanLingoMungo

    by Killah_Mate

    Yes, it would indeed be the Tablecloth Team. If you find their kits amusing, you should come to Croatia - checkers everywhere! Ever since the Cup started, I feel like I&#39;m on a constant picnic :)

  • June 20, 2006, 6:18 a.m. CST

    Very funny

    by half vader

    Hey picnic-boy. Your user name does sound very Aussie or even Brit though.

  • June 20, 2006, 6:24 a.m. CST

    1080i for HD-DVD players, 1080p discs

    by half vader

    That&#39;s how I undertand it, Killah. The first gen of Hd-DVD players can only handle interlaced, so I&#39;m waiting for the second lot. The Blu-ray players can do 1080 progressive now, but they&#39;re more expensive, so I&#39;ll wait for a PS3.______________ Ridge, the way I read that wasn&#39;t that he didn&#39;t know about the low spec PS3, but that he was making a point about same price, less features for X360 + HD-DVD.

  • June 20, 2006, 6:33 a.m. CST

    I&#39;ll buy the players & discs first THEN the High-Def TV

    by half vader

    I know the HD and Blu-ray players are backwards compatible with regular DVDs but seeing as the high-def discs aren&#39;t really more expensive than current DVDs, I figure I can buy the High-def discs, play &#39;em back through the component outputs at 480p on my regular telly. They should look just as good, and when I finally get my 1080p HD set (I&#39;m waiting for Toshiba/Canon&#39;s SED TVs to hit the market) next year I can play &#39;em back in all their (native not up-rezzed) high-def glory. Win win!

  • June 20, 2006, 6:44 a.m. CST

    Sorry for the multiple posts, but Killah & VanLingo

    by half vader

    Thanks for clarifying about &#39;lose&#39;. It&#39;s been driving me insane (yeah yeah I know I&#39;m anal but I&#39;m justified) for a while now and I&#39;ve even been seeing it turn up in so-called professional journos&#39; work. I thought it was some moronic new rule (like admitting the redundant &#39;fantastical&#39; into the dictionary - that&#39;s my fave) but it turns out people are just lazy fucks after all. I reckon we&#39;re allowed to be &#39;fuckwit haters&#39; about this as folks are getting ridiculously upset about the insane topic of Superman&#39;s sperm over in the other TB. ______________ Lastly, should I cut and paste the entire previous HD talkbacks or the E3 TB to save everyone an awful lot of typing repeat posts about HD/Sony sux? Whaddya think?

  • June 20, 2006, 6:45 a.m. CST

    by Urge to Kill

    The 360 with the HD-DVD drive will cost less then the $600 PS3. Since MS fully intends to drop the price on the 360 once the PS3 launches.

  • June 20, 2006, 6:49 a.m. CST

    half vader

    by Killah_Mate

    That&#39;s a pretty good plan, something I plan to do also. And yeah, I wasn&#39;t sure about the players, but the important thing is that the *discs* are progressive-scan; as long as the content is there, someone will soon make a player that can read it. Also, my user name is more than a bit Aussie, but I kinda like it, it relates to my real name, and it would&#39;ve been hard to make a punnable user name on an English board if I picked a Croatian one :)

  • June 20, 2006, 7:18 a.m. CST

    "Any technology that Micro$oft is behind-I&#39;m against"

    by newc0253

    hmm. and by an odd coincide, anytime i read something written by someone who writes microsoft as &#39;micro$oft&#39;, i automatically take the opposing view. you might as well explain you arguments by reference to the jews and the world bank or wear a tinfoil hat.

  • June 20, 2006, 7:23 a.m. CST

    also, the cheapest HD DVD player is the $499 Toshiba...

    by newc0253

    ... and yet this guy prefers to wait for the PS3 which will likely cost $599.

  • June 20, 2006, 7:27 a.m. CST

    photoboy, you&#39;re backwards

    by Holodigm

    HD-DVD is the one that&#39;s restrictive. you&#39;ll never see an hd-dvd burner because microsoft and intel required that copy-prevention be put on the discs. they backed hd-dvd because sony refused to do that, they want people to be able to write to blu-ray. that&#39;s why you&#39;ll have yourself a blu-ray burner in a few years while hd-dvd is just going to sit there.

  • June 20, 2006, 7:46 a.m. CST

    Yes, but....

    by obiwayne

    The PS3 is not just a player. If you are going to take a chance on a new format, the player might as well have dual functionality so that once the war is decided you at least have a PS3 to play with...if it goes in HD-DVDs favor. I honestly don&#39;t see this as going in either&#39;s "favor" though. I am the textbook example of everday technophile consumer, and I don&#39;t see myself upgrading simply because I don&#39;t want to risk wasting my money.

  • June 20, 2006, 8:02 a.m. CST

    by Sith42

    Remember $ony&#39;s rootkit fiasco? Or the PSP movie fiasco? Or the BLEEM! fiasco? etc, etc? Good luck with that one. And remember $ony (isn&#39;t this $ stuff fun?) borrowed from Microsoft and Nintendo this generation. It doesn&#39;t matter anyways, holodisc will make both obsolete.

  • June 20, 2006, 8:18 a.m. CST

    That&#39;s very true, Holodigm.

    by raw_bean

    It&#39;s a point that seems constantly missed, but as far as I know the Blu-Ray website still talks about their format primarily in terms of being a *recording* medium, NOT a pre-recorded film medium. In the dash to get out players and discs of popular films everyone seems to have overlooked the fact that with more and more *television* content - including pay-per-view sport and films - being broadcast in HD, sooner or later people are going to want to record this stuff themselves, at which point BDs will almost certainly be the best option. Also, BD recording is more likely to be the way forward in terms of burning discs from computers, both because of the higher capacity and because Sony have focused far more on the recording side of the technology than the HD-DVD camp seem to have. --- To VanLingoMungo: Sir, you&#39;ve had me in stitches. And to yourself, half_vader and Killah_Mate, I thank you all, from the bottom of my heart; I&#39;m no longer fighting a lone crusade against the idiotic miss-spelling of &#39;lose&#39;! :^)

  • June 20, 2006, 8:24 a.m. CST

    Yay! $ony v$. Micro$oft! Kicka$$!

    by Killah_Mate

    I don&#39;t get to use the $ sign very often, so I have to satisfy my strange cravings in big lumps...

  • June 20, 2006, 8:32 a.m. CST

    FUCK ALL DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY

    by CatoTheCensor

    All that shit degrades, skips, and generally turns to shit over time. All of my old CDs skip like crazy; My ROTK EE freezes up, and every time I rent something popular from blockbuster, half the time the disc will barely play. You know what still works perfecty? My Poison "Look What the Cat Dragged In" Casette Tape that I bought in 1989.

  • June 20, 2006, 8:50 a.m. CST

    what abt player quality?

    by movieManiac

    will that sway any of you idiots who are going on and on abt whos geek dick is longest? http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/handson-samsung-bdp1000-bluray-player-180950.php

  • June 20, 2006, 9:02 a.m. CST

    I just have this to say

    by Varakor

    I&#39;m just gonna quote what I wrote on my site, on the HD-DVD/ Blu-Ray thing. ---------------------------------- So much like the Beta/VHS war we had so many years ago, we are back once again to see which of the two; Blu-ray or HD-DVD will reign supreme. Honestly, I think the Bluray camp will walk away with the title because, and I said it before in my pre-ces preview show report and I will say it again: Blu-ray will come out on top as THE format above all. Now here is the twist, it can be the new format if and only if Sony can succeed with the Playstation 3. If the machine comes out this holiday season with enough software to get it through at least 6 months after its release, then you can consider Blu-ray the winner. I say this because I

  • June 20, 2006, 9:24 a.m. CST

    Capacity...

    by ChrisPC24

    The capacity of Blu-ray is actually lower than HD DVD right now. Most, if not all Blu-ray titles are at 25GB, while HD DVD titles are 30GB. That&#39;s why Blu-ray movies have fewer extras right now. Sony has not yet been able to produce dual-layer discs, while HD DVD has had them for a while.

  • June 20, 2006, 9:45 a.m. CST

    Anybody with an HD TV knows how important this is

    by Dannychico

    Standard def DVDs look like ass. I applaud Sony for going for optimum picture resolution. That&#39;s what people want at this juncture anyway. When the dual layer discs are available, I STILL want the highest resolution. Fuck the extras. Who watches them more than once anyway?

  • June 20, 2006, 9:46 a.m. CST

    By the way, TY is producing 200 GB Blu Ray discs

    by Dannychico

    Which will own all of you.

  • June 20, 2006, 9:47 a.m. CST

    PS3 is the trojan horse

    by Dannychico

    Yes, it&#39;s priced too high. But they&#39;ll still move a significant number of units. When the time comes for Joe and Jill America to upgrade to an HD television and movie experience, they&#39;ll realize they already have the player sitting right there in their video game console!

  • June 20, 2006, 9:49 a.m. CST

    If you can&#39;t tell the difference between DVD and HD

    by Dannychico

    You must not have eyes. How are you reading your screen? You must be running at 800x600. I don&#39;t consider myself a videophile, but the difference is SIGNIFICANT. HUGE. 2.5 times the resolution.

  • June 20, 2006, 9:56 a.m. CST

    by Dnez

    As long as we fork over the bucks these companies will continue to goudge us. I&#39;m a big fan of 1080 signals however, I will wait a bit longer before I choose one over th eother. I think these two formats are to a disadvantage to consumers. Say you invest into a player yet a movie you like won&#39;t be available because that studio is supporting the other camp. On top of that many average consumers still have trouble understanding things like 16x9 vs fullscreen. Throw Rluray, HD-DVD along with HDCP into the mix and you&#39;ll end up with some confused shoppers. When I speak of average shhopper I don&#39;t mean people who follow films and in effect glean info about technology. I am just speaking about the average joe shopping at a mall with with wife kid and picket fence that represent a substantial amount of disposeable dollars.

  • June 20, 2006, 10:08 a.m. CST

    WTF Holodigm

    by photoboy

    The HD DVD-R format has been approved since 2004, companies like Hitachi, Verbatim and Mitsubishi have even shipped discs to market. There have even been prototype recordable drives demoed. Blu-ray is the restrictive format in that it doesn&#39;t even allow you to copy the content of the disc to a computer. Neither format is a win for the consumer in terms of freedom but if we&#39;re being forced to choose HD-DVD is the one to go for.

  • June 20, 2006, 10:15 a.m. CST

    Photoboy - wrong

    by Dannychico

    You&#39;ll have no more success copying HD-DVDs to your computer. Both formats will have substantial copy protection, but the copy protection is the same. Of course, like that found on DVDs, this protection will be broken in time.

  • June 20, 2006, 10:17 a.m. CST

    I think my DVDs look just fine

    by I Dunno

    2.5 times the resolution? Is that worth buying a $600 system and replacing my entire library? This sounds like an intermediary thing. Wake me up when we have holo-suites.

  • June 20, 2006, 10:21 a.m. CST

    "NOBODY NEEDS A HD VERSION OF HAPPY GILMORE" - EXACTLY!

    by Killah_Mate

    That&#39;s the whole POINT of what I&#39;ve been trying to say! You don&#39;t HAVE to spend millions to rebuild your movie library! Do you really NEED a hidef version of "Groundhog Day"? No! The point of that movie is not its visuals! But when I go watch the Pirates of the Carribbean or Lawrence of Arabia I want to be blown away by their LOOK (among other things ;) I believe a combo DVD/Hidef library is simply the most realistic solution, since, after all, your home setup will be able to display both formats seamlessly (unlike VHS, which is one of the reasons combo VHS/DVD libraries didn&#39;t make sense).

  • June 20, 2006, 10:35 a.m. CST

    I Dunno

    by Dannychico

    Well, I&#39;m not buying a $600 system, either. Of course, I&#39;m cheap and waited for DVD players to be under $200 before buying. Same thing will happen with Blu-Ray. And Killah-mate is exactly right. Listen to him.

  • June 20, 2006, 10:38 a.m. CST

    Hey, Herc?

    by MattCG

    I could&#39;ve sworn I worded that differently, if not entirely.

  • June 20, 2006, 10:48 a.m. CST

    Sony is so dumb...

    by TheBaxter

    they can&#39;t even spell "BLUE" right... it&#39;s got an E, you morons!!!

  • June 20, 2006, 10:50 a.m. CST

    Point of fact....

    by MattCG

    ...what I said was: "It&#39;s a specialty format requiring a significant investment and I&#39;m not rich. You know, like laserdiscs." I&#39;m fucking pissed about this shit. I&#39;ve got nearly 1000 DVD&#39;s and I&#39;m not about to change fucking formats before the price of everything comes down to what I would deem an acceptable level. I will also not be purchasing one fucking bit of this crap until I find out definitively which one is the Beta.

  • June 20, 2006, 11:24 a.m. CST

    "HD/Blu Ray will go the way of the dodo."

    by HypeEndsHere

    you can use that quote in a few years when these formats have failed to catch on with the public.

  • June 20, 2006, 11:30 a.m. CST

    The true winner of the format war will be...

    by Bob of the Shire

    DVD! 95% of America doesn&#39;t give two shits about this stuff. And the differences between DVD and HD-DVD/Blu-Ray aren&#39;t significant enough to warrant a $500+ purchase.

  • June 20, 2006, 11:35 a.m. CST

    Who gives a fuck?

    by MartyBryce

    Seriously, who except freaks even cares about the "new formats" or the "format war"? Shit, who even KNOWS about it? 8% of the public, maybe? It really would take some kind of psychotic freak (say, someone who buys media in some format when he doesn&#39;t even have a player of this format) to actually give a damn about all this.

  • June 20, 2006, 11:41 a.m. CST

    Woo-hoo, and here&#39;s something rich...

    by MartyBryce

    Linguistic advice given by someone who then vomits out this gem: "you&#39;re best friend"! Har, har, har, har! Yep, English is not my second language, and I know and use it better than 90% of "native speakers", yowza wowza!

  • June 20, 2006, 11:54 a.m. CST

    Okay...I just GOTTA ask...

    by RobinP

    What kind of shit-fer-brains buys discs when the players themselves haven&#39;t been made available for sale. On the other hand, what shit-fer-brains company sells the software without the hardware ? Answers on a postcard....

  • June 20, 2006, 11:56 a.m. CST

    MASSWYRM, JUMP IN ON THIS ONE ALREADY!!!

    by mescal

    I&#39;ve heard your rant. Let it rip, man. This is the perfect forum for it.

  • June 20, 2006, noon CST

    To Dannychico

    by photoboy

    Check here: http://tinyurl.com/z4poa HD-DVD lets you make a copy of the film for your computer. To my knowledge it has been decided that Blu-Ray will not support this.

  • June 20, 2006, 12:01 p.m. CST

    VHS!!

    by FleshMachine

    am i the only one who still like the grainy crappy quality of vhs...especially horrors...i dunno theres something warm and fuzzy... i have a sweet 42" hdtv and an upconverting dvd player and a zillion movies,,,but i still have my vhs hooked up to it and i watch "salvador" the other day on vhs then "day of the jackal" on dvd...i like old and grainy..it had character or something.

  • June 20, 2006, 12:18 p.m. CST

    Most people haven&#39;t even switched to HD TVs yet..

    by Rinse

    where&#39;s the market that&#39;s going to sustain Blu-Ray/HD-DVD?

  • June 20, 2006, 12:31 p.m. CST

    Anchorite

    by Dannychico

    First of all, there will be 500 dollar blu-ray players at the end of the year. So the PS3&#39;s 500-600 dollar price tag isn&#39;t so crazy. Second of all, Sony knows full well that they are taking a loss on every PS3 sold, and they&#39;ve been very public about this. They want to get the hardware out there and will reap the profits later.

  • June 20, 2006, 12:33 p.m. CST

    This debate is pointless

    by quadrupletree

    By the time everyone has HDTVs and are ready to upgrade their players (I say 5 years from now), this "format war" will either be over or something better will come along to kick both formats asses. It&#39;s like laserdisc, sure it was superior to VHS but by the time the general public was ready to upgrade DVD had come along and killed it.

  • June 20, 2006, 12:55 p.m. CST

    This technology will win out in the end...

    by Batutta

    http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid5_gci1194277,00.html

  • June 20, 2006, 1:16 p.m. CST

    I stand by what I said, Herc

    by Shawn F.

    Sure, the software end of the Blu-Ray format isn&#39;t going to be expensive (don&#39;t let that $39 retail on the new titles scare you. A little looking around will knock that price right down to size). The hardware, on the other hand, is. A thousand bucks for a player that has the same picture quality as the HD player (at least for now. The 50 gig Blu-Ray discs and 1080p output may change all that right quick)? Come on. Five hundred bucks for an HD DVD player is still asking quite a bit from you and I, the Average Consumer, but at least it *is* more feasible than a thousand (or 1500 if you want the Pioneer player).

  • June 20, 2006, 1:20 p.m. CST

    Utterly pointless technology

    by vrooom

    HD/Blu-ray needs to capture the public&#39;s imagination. It won&#39;t. The transition from SD to HD isn&#39;t as jarring as the jump from VHS to DVD or B&W TV to Colour. Because the quality improvement really is minimal and the price of DVD equipment is so low (

  • June 20, 2006, 1:23 p.m. CST

    Shawn F. - wait three months

    by Dannychico

    You&#39;ll be able to get a Blu-Ray player @ 500 dollars. HD-DVD just got a little head start. There&#39;s only one Blu-Ray player on the market at the moment, so there&#39;s no price competition.

  • June 20, 2006, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Sony fanboys, get over yourselves...

    by Castor777

    Ok, first off - you can jump on the PS3 bandwagon and act like their decision to release the system at $600 was smart, no one believes you. Releasing a game system that carries specs almost identical to the 360 and charging $200 more a year later, all because of a Blu-Ray player which doesn&#39;t mean jackshit to 95% of the people out there is among one of the dumbest moves a company like Sony could have ever made. NO ONE CARES RIGHT NOW ABOUT HD-DVD & BLU-RAY! Have you walked into a Best Buy lately (our store got the Blu-Ray player in yesterday) and checked out the difference? It&#39;s impressive, yes to a degree, but only the rich that need to buy every form of new technology are acting out and buying them. Like it or not, that&#39;s how it&#39;s going to be. You can&#39;t even keep a straight face and tell me that the PS3 is going to do for Blu-Ray what the PS2 did for DVD. For one, there&#39;s way too many people out there that don&#39;t even have an HDTV to notice any difference whatsoever, so don&#39;t expect a mass amount of people to run out and spend $30 on a movie when they can&#39;t tell the difference on their 27 and 32 inch tube TVs than a normal DVD. Secondly, the first batch of releases suck - only brand new movies like Underworld Evolutions really stand out right now and unless we see Lord Of The Rings or Star Wars break out before XMas, no one needs to rush out and buy them. So go ahead and continue your retarded little $&#39;s in Microsofts name, at least they were smart enough to give you the option of going HD-DVD later on if the format took off instead of shoving it down your throats like Sony.

  • June 20, 2006, 1:34 p.m. CST

    About the PS3&#39;s Blu-ray playback quality

    by judesalmon

    The PS3 probably doesn&#39;t have many Blu-ray movie decoding parts in it at all - Sony says all that is handled by the Cell processor, which considering how ridiculously powerful it is, isn&#39;t a bad thing. I&#39;ll be getting a PS3 at launch, so naturally I&#39;ll support Blu-ray at first, but if HD-DVD wins out, I can buy a player later. Blu-ray is technologically the superior format, but when has that ever made a difference?

  • June 20, 2006, 1:38 p.m. CST

    HDTV is big news in the UK

    by judesalmon

    According to a recent survey that was mentioned on hdtvuk.tv, an HDTV is the next big electrical purchase people want in this country. Maybe they don&#39;t know why, but everyone wants them. When they&#39;ve get them, they&#39;ll notice the problems with DVDs on HDTVs and this could have a big impact on the sales of HD-DVD and Blu-ray.

  • June 20, 2006, 2:08 p.m. CST

    like it or not

    by Varakor

    the blu-ray, HD-DVD war is upon us and one way or another we will get a new format because.. those who are saying that the majority of people don&#39;thave HDTVs well guess what, since standard television is pretty much out the door, I think folks should care about a HI-DEF format. They don&#39;t have to throw away their entire DVD collection (I&#39;m in agreeance, who needs a Hi-DEF copy of happy gilmore? 50 first dates? Hitch? anyone? anyone?) But people are gonna take sides and the PS3/xbox 360 HD-DVD player will help usher in the new formats once they are released, we cannot ignore it, it&#39;s gonna happen. Ifor one am looking forward to owning a PS3 with blu-ray. By the holiday season we will see how things pan out.

  • June 20, 2006, 2:25 p.m. CST

    "Replace my library" - knew I should have copied &

    by half vader

    pasted the previous talkbacks! Sigh. Killah & VanLingo, if you&#39;re still out there, I forgot about the other giant out there at the moment - then in place of than. Does anyone even look at what they wrote? How does that make any sense?! Then again we are in the world of people criticising a brand new format for not already having a market. Not to mention actively moaning about improving a technology after almost ten years of the previous tech. Whatever. Killah, you forgot "Luca$" though. ;) _____________ Baxter, They didn&#39;t forget the E. You can&#39;t copyright "Blue-ray". That&#39;s the reason.

  • June 20, 2006, 2:26 p.m. CST

    I want to see Happy Gilmore in HD

    by AlmostFilmmaker

    Who wouldn&#39;t. Bob Barker kicking Adam Sandler&#39;s ass in HD, and then quibing, "the price is right bitch," is right up there with the greatest one liners in cinema history. You can&#39;t help to laugh and laugh and laugh.

  • June 20, 2006, 2:51 p.m. CST

    This war isn&#39;t going away...so pick a side

    by Dannychico

    And, as consumers, we should all be hoping Blu-Ray wins. It&#39;s a superior technology. Your movies and all the extras will finally fit on one disc. HD-DVD can&#39;t say the same thing.

  • June 20, 2006, 3:09 p.m. CST

    This is hi fi, OK?

    by Christopher3

    You know what that means? That means this is the highest quality fidelity. I have this very unit in my home. But I got it modified with the TK which kicks it up another three or four... quads per channel. But that&#39;s technical.

  • June 20, 2006, 3:30 p.m. CST

    Gandalf

    by Kung Fu Hustler

    Don&#39;t you want to see the white nosehair poking out of Ian McKellan&#39;s nose during a Gandalf the Grey close up? I guess some people just aren&#39;t willing to go to far for their passions...

  • June 20, 2006, 3:32 p.m. CST

    High Fidelity. Those are two important things to have.

    by HypeEndsHere

  • June 20, 2006, 4:54 p.m. CST

    Stop discouraging early adopters

    by Dannychico

    After all, you have early adopters to thank for all technology lowering in price.

  • June 20, 2006, 5:34 p.m. CST

    Don&#39;t you mean Mauv-Ray?

    by Kung Fu Hustler

    Just saying...

  • June 20, 2006, 6:25 p.m. CST

    quadrupletree

    by Killah_Mate

    I agree with you, this debate is pretty much pointless. You (and others) believe that HD-DVD/Blu-ray won&#39;t catch on. I (and others) believe they (or one of them) will. The only way to conclusively prove one of us is right is to wait and see. But we have to do something to pass the time, so... :)

  • June 20, 2006, 6:38 p.m. CST

    half vader - yeah, I&#39;m still somewhat here...

    by Killah_Mate

    A quote from above: "I can&#39;t see Jonny Average dumping his gear and *collection*..." - whatever, man. I&#39;m tired of explaining. You go and throw all your DVDs away when you finally get hidef. Whatever makes you happy. Re: spelling, I do also notice a lot of those then/than mixups - they reeeeeeeeeealy get under my skin. Don&#39;t know what to do about it, though, so I suffer in silence :)

  • June 20, 2006, 6:50 p.m. CST

    Both camps are screwing up.

    by lynxpro

    First off, all the Warner HD-DVDs are using Microsoft&#39;s AV-1 (Windows Media 9) codec instead of H.264 MPEG4. That is stupid. But then again, Sony is only using MPEG2 for their current batch of Blu-Ray titles. Now I understand the argument that less compression is better - i.e. their *SuperBit* subbrand - but my understanding is that H.264 MPEG4 even with not-so-tightly compressed generates better imaging than MPEG2 due to the updated mastering processes. Then you have the titles Sony picked to launch with. *Underworld Evolution*? C&#39;mon, they should have launched with *Spider-Man 2* like they did with the PSP. Lame execution. Plus, from what I&#39;ve read, both the Toshiba HD-DVD player and the Samsung Blu-Ray players do multi-upscaling before the disc image gets outputted to the HDTV because both machines use the same inferior digital decoder chip that can&#39;t truly handle 1080i or p. From those same sources, the word to the wise is to wait for either type of platform to launch their players that use the Sigma Designs chips which can handle native 1080p imaging. Funny, when I was in BestBuy the other day, the salesman said that the Toshiba unit doesn&#39;t even output in 1080i but 720p. That&#39;s probably incorrect, but I didn&#39;t automatically reject the assertion because both of these units seem like they were slapped together on the fly.

  • June 20, 2006, 6:54 p.m. CST

    My DVDs look perfectly fine as is.

    by Novaman5000

    No way I&#39;m spending 999+ for only a slightly better resolutioned DVD. Is "resolutioned" even a real word?

  • June 20, 2006, 6:55 p.m. CST

    Here&#39;s the question!

    by dirtsandwich

    How big (how many gigs) is an uncompressed 2hr movie? There&#39;s another media around the corner. The media remains still and 3 lasers read the card, or whatever shape they make it.Can hold up to 4 terabytes. So HD and Blu-Ray have their days numbered. So I&#39;ve heard. As well as all the current displays. Plasma..etc. Some killer shit coming in that department too.

  • June 20, 2006, 7:01 p.m. CST

    I totally agree!

    by dirtsandwich

    quote - This debate is pointless by quadrupletree June 20th, 2006 12:33:11 PM CST By the time everyone has HDTVs and are ready to upgrade their players (I say 5 years from now), this "format war" will either be over or something better will come along to kick both formats asses. It&#39;s like laserdisc, sure it was superior to VHS but by the time the general public was ready to upgrade DVD had come along and killed it. - quote

  • June 20, 2006, 7:07 p.m. CST

    Some kickass new display technologies will soon be here

    by Killah_Mate

    But those wonderful screens will still be in the 1080p format, so, from our point of view, it really has no bearing on this issue.

  • June 20, 2006, 7:07 p.m. CST

    excuse me, VC-1...

    by lynxpro

    I keep on typing it that way. As for Microsoft "lying", the SMPTE determined that Windows Media 9 was not as good as the non-Microsoft versions of MPEG4, and especially not H.264. My understanding was that the SMPTE wanted to de-certify it. And yes, Blu-Ray can support VC-1, but do you truly think Sony or MGM will ship titles encoded in it? No bloody way. Me thinks the only reason Warners is shipping their HD-DVD titles in VC-1 is due to some unannounced royalty price break Microsoft gave them to drum up support for the codec or it might have been part of the settlement agreement between Time Warner proper and Microsoft in exchange for AOL dropping its antitrust case against "The Beast" for having destroyed Netscape. Point is, VC-1 is inferior to H.264 and it is a format [VC-1] that is championed by the monopolist known as Microsoft just as WMA as an audio codec is inferior to AAC, or OGG.

  • June 20, 2006, 7:18 p.m. CST

    I totally agree with dirtsandwich...

    by Just Plain Steve

    ..who agrees with quadrupletree. I think we should all waste talkback space by just quoting other talkbacks. quote - This debate is pointless by quadrupletree June 20th, 2006 12:33:11 PM CST By the time everyone has HDTVs and are ready to upgrade their players (I say 5 years from now), this "format war" will either be over or something better will come along to kick both formats asses. It&#39;s like laserdisc, sure it was superior to VHS but by the time the general public was ready to upgrade DVD had come along and killed it. - quote

  • June 20, 2006, 7:23 p.m. CST

    no way im buying this

    by macgruder

    at these prices. 500 bucks for a player? 25.00 for a disc? hell no. I&#39;ll continue to rent from netflix and copy the movies I like that much on my pc. They can kiss my ass if they think i&#39;m going to be buying all these movies yet AGAIN.

  • June 20, 2006, 7:40 p.m. CST

    I was told that the talkback space was recyclable.

    by dirtsandwich

    Anyway, someone mentioned, (fuck I better not quote anyone, and waste space.) that the upgrade to HD and Blu-Ray is not that big of a leap. What makes this so true is the new players still play the standard dvds. So that is a plus. Because buying your movie collection over and over doesn&#39;t help. But we&#39;ll all have to eventually. Who wants to buy LOTR again?

  • June 20, 2006, 8:10 p.m. CST

    we only...

    by VoodooV

    just recently finally put the final nails in the coffin of VHS and you technowhores want to adopt a new format that the average person doesn&#39;t even know about much less tell the difference? Fuck you!

  • June 20, 2006, 8:10 p.m. CST

    Gandalf has it right.

    by Orbots Commander

    Forget the confusion about HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. Just consider HDTVs (LCD, Plasma, DLP, etc, etc...): a new display technology seems to emerge now about once a year or so. Along with that, resolution keeps improving every COUPLE of months. Now the latest and greatest is 1080p HDTVs. Soon to come is SED HDTVs, which are supposed to trump both LCD and Plasma. All this is already making my head spin. The point is, trying to have the latest tech toy is pretty pointless, unless of course you have money to burn. Just choose the best quality that is within your budget range and forget about the stuff that comes out every few months. As far as the deuling formats go. I&#39;d inclined to skip it. The next revolution of video is going to be downloadable movies on demand onto your iPod or Tivo. This high def disk stuff is just a temporary carryover profit machine for electronics manufacturers.

  • June 20, 2006, 8:15 p.m. CST

    lest we forget

    by VoodooV

    you fuckwits cant even decide on ONE next gen format. I imagine you&#39;re being doubly idiotic and buying players for both formats arent you?

  • June 20, 2006, 8:27 p.m. CST

    Fuck the CE companies...

    by Lamerz

    They can rot in hell for not coming up with a common standard. I hope regardless of who wins, that this format war drives someone into the ground other than the consumer. Dumbass companies. Oh yeah, CE stands for Consumer Electronics for the fuckwits who don&#39;t know.

  • June 20, 2006, 8:45 p.m. CST

    Killah_mate is the only smart one in here

    by Dannychico

    The rest of you are just bitter because of your hundreds-of-titles DVD collections. You think that Blu-ray somehow invalidates them. As long as you were buying the movies for a good reason - like, watching them - and not for a bad reason - collecting - then you shouldn&#39;t worry.

  • June 20, 2006, 8:51 p.m. CST

    Fuck them both - Hard Disk Storage is the way...

    by ComputerGuy68

    to go. My HTPC has a healthy 500GB storage drive. Download the content and play it on my HDTV in 1080i - my personal VOD. 30GB? 50GB? big whoop! Hard drive are so cheap (and fast) you could have a TB of disc space for less then $700! HD/BRD came too late...

  • June 20, 2006, 9:31 p.m. CST

    HDs fail. Flashrom is the way to go...

    by dirtsandwich

    They&#39;re instant fast and last forever. But assholery expensive when you get into large capacities. The gov, military...etc. buy them for these ridiculous amounts. That&#39;s one reason they&#39;re not at BestBuy for $100. I love it when the cool shit is out of reach just because of greed.

  • June 20, 2006, 10:03 p.m. CST

    Why this ain&#39;t LD2K

    by wash

    Folks, a lot of people are missing something here. LD failed because the discs were so goddamn expensive, and hardly anyone rented them, outside a few scattered shops in big metro areas. These new formats stand a chance because the films are around the same price as DVDs. Your new player can be a replacement for your old player, yet you can still play all your old DVDs. The players will come down in price quickly next year (the companies are just milking the early adopters like they always do). Netflix is already renting HD and BR discs. Say you could upgrade to a HD or BR player for $100 (it will happen sooner than you think), and pay the same price for movies...would you keep buying and renting normal DVDs? As someone who mostly rents movies anyway (I&#39;d rather spend my money on other shit than a huge video library), it&#39;s a pretty easy decision to invest in something that I&#39;ll use for several years at least.

  • June 20, 2006, 11:21 p.m. CST

    Netscape? hahahahah, oh man...

    by wash

    Ever hear of Firefox? It&#39;s what you just said except for 3 years ago. And it&#39;s an offshoot of Mozilla, just like Netscape, except with not as much bloat.

  • June 20, 2006, 11:52 p.m. CST

    $600 is too much? Then you aren&#39;t the market.

    by No-Op

    I do high-end AV integration. Nearly all our customers buy Faroudja and other brand line-doublers and other resolution enhancing equipment in an effort to clean up TV signals sufficiently to be satisfying at 10-foot sizes. These add-on boxes cost $2,000 to $20,000, and they are completely blown away by the quality coming straight out of an HD-DVD Toshiba (and I&#39;m sure the Blu will be as good). Faroudja&#39;s best selling DVD player is $8,000 and includes resolution enhancement that makes it very nearly half as good to watch as the $500 Toshiba. If you can&#39;t afford it, who is making you buy it? If you can&#39;t see the difference, you are blessed with beer taste and can pass on the champagne. Lots of people think they like how their $99 Target "Home Theater" sounds and looks. One of our clients is spending $250,000 on just his projector (Runco) and $10,000 PER SPEAKER (Meridian). Is he a fool? Well, I say if he can afford it, he can&#39;t be too much a fool.

  • June 21, 2006, 12:08 a.m. CST

    Safari is better...

    by wash

    ...if you&#39;re stuck with an expensive toy because some emo kid on the tee-vee convinced you that you couldn&#39;t do simple shit like edit a video or hook up an ipod with a real computer.

  • June 21, 2006, 12:09 a.m. CST

    I kid

    by wash

    I was kidding. About Safari being better.

  • June 21, 2006, 12:24 a.m. CST

    HD-DVD will win. No one wants to stop saying DVD

    by Orionsangels

    Think about. Americans are simple minded. If I convert to HD-DVD. I&#39;ll keep saying DVD. No American in his right mind is going to suddendly start saying, hey did you buy the new Superman movie on Blu-ray? Just not gonna happen. It sounds like a fish.

  • June 21, 2006, 12:39 a.m. CST

    I want my PS3

    by Thunder Mammoth

    Blue-Ray, baby. Blue-Ray. luv, a simple-minded american.

  • June 21, 2006, 12:41 a.m. CST

    Halle Berry said it best

    by Rinse

    There is a war coming. Are you sure you&#39;re on the right side? At least I&#39;ve chosen a side.

  • June 21, 2006, 1:19 a.m. CST

    HD DVD

    by backstabber

    Another decade another bloody rip off. First, super hype DVD, never scratches, complete movie will fit on one side.I have DVD&#39;s I cannot even watch because 4 of my DVD players cannot read the discs. Second, Superbit DVD, promises even better picture quality... Third, HD DVD takes movies watching to a new dimension..... Fourth, Terminator 2 first in normal release, then special edition, then in ultimate edition,currently Extreme edition. So what are they going to release the HD dvd version as? I had a VCR which I could record and take anywhere in the world, slot it into a VHS VCR and enjoy my film. DVD, hit the shops and like a mug I bought one had to worry about region zones, lack of decent DVD recorder, DVD recording format problems, could not just record and take it with me if I left one country to another. Still have my Laserdisc and now they want to rip me off again. I pass...

  • June 21, 2006, 1:27 a.m. CST

    Well technically PS3&#39;s blu-ray is good for games too!

    by Johnno

    Therefore justifying the amount for the format somewhat... I&#39;ve heard all teh arguments about good compressions and hate for pre-rendered FMV. But by the end of the day, the extra space is good to have for HD content, and Japanese developers like Square Enix who really love their pre-rendered HD FMVs will opt for Blu-Ray, leaving Xbox 360 with it&#39;s DVD-9s... but ah well... it was always about the exclusives anyway...

  • June 21, 2006, 1:40 a.m. CST

    I think the SW 30th Ani. MegaBox set is BluRay

    by Tall_Boy

    though I doubt it&#39;ll hit in time by 2007, but I read Lucas & Fox are on the BluRay waggon. Course, I read it on wikipedia, but hey, couldn&#39;t hurt. Put me in the wait-for-PS3 camp (buy 2, sell one on ebay, make a chunk of that upfront price back. works for me.)

  • June 21, 2006, 2:13 a.m. CST

    Halfvader

    by Ridge

    Indeed, and that in itself is a fair point, but before one goes into a column like that trying to sound professional one should first make sure they know what they&#39;re talking about fully, lest they be shot down like a german bomber over England in ww2. There is something else to consider : Theres apparently a dual hddvd/bluray player already in the works. Won&#39;t that just kick ass. But personally, I just feel they&#39;re both going the way of the laserdisc given theres already a disc in development that can hold a terabyte...

  • June 21, 2006, 2:58 a.m. CST

    600 clams for a Playstation 3 is fucking ridiculous

    by Triumph poops!

    Sorry, but I still think that Sony has VASTLY overpriced the PS3 and that its pricing will hinder its ability to make inroads the way the PS2 did -- and don&#39;t give me the standard Sony pitch that it&#39;s worth it simply because it has a blu-ray player attached. Seriously, $600 for a video game console? Overpriced, man...waaaaaaaaaay overpriced. I say Xbox 360 and Wii all the way, simply because Microsoft and Nintendo are at least being smart enough to allow their next gen consoles to be accessible to average working families AND the number one audience gaming consoles are aimed at: kids looking to play GAMES (and NOT watch high def movies). Besides, I&#39;ll believe the hype for the PS3 when it comes out since Sony marketing has a looooong, proven track record and history for lying out their asses about actual performance stats in regards to items they are developing simply to try and downplay any competition that&#39;s either already on the market or likewise due out in the near future...

  • June 21, 2006, 4:53 a.m. CST

    Triumph

    by Ridge

    You&#39;re pretty much on the money there. The price is good... FOR ME TO POOP ON!!!! lol sorry I couldn&#39;t resist. The pricing of it SUCKS. THey claim to be following MS&#39;s method of releasing two versions HOWEVER, MS released an extra laden version and a non extra version, HOWEVER one could also still upgrade, as I had to, to the best version simply by buying a little bit here and there. A lower end SKU with no true 1080 playback AT ALL is a joke pure and simple. It&#39;s not a good purchase at all, it&#39;s a bluray player whoop dee doo, but I tell you, I&#39;d rather have a dedicated player than a bloody games console that I had to play movies in. That might sound silly to some, but for a price like that I wouldn&#39;t want to be wearing out my laser or any part of the console with anything but games...

  • June 21, 2006, 4:55 a.m. CST

    Oh and I almost forgot to add...

    by Ridge

    After thinking about it, debating it with friends... I&#39;ll be very very surprised if either format actually &#39;beats&#39; the good old DVD. The industry currently estimates the DVD has 8 years max left in it. By that time, I guarantee you storage methods that put Blurays and HDDVD&#39;s to shame will be in play...

  • June 21, 2006, 5:13 a.m. CST

    Want Would Porno Do?

    by rgatz

    I&#39;ll let the real arbitors of cinematic technology work it out.

  • June 21, 2006, 7:59 a.m. CST

    in the future, giant robots will watch our tv for us:

    by newc0253

    and their vision will greatly exceed ours, so these current format wars are pointless.

  • June 21, 2006, 8:14 a.m. CST

    Ridge

    by half vader

    Sorry mate, but I&#39;m not sure which post you were responding to there, you didn&#39;t say. I didn&#39;t mean to sound pompous or like I was a professional. Just a bit narky, if anything - which is nothing around here. As for the combo player already in the works, yes I knew, but I think there are actually two of them from different companies, but I can&#39;t remember the names. And with the &#39;holographic&#39; discs &#39;already&#39; in development, yeah if by &#39;already&#39; you mean for years now then the latest I read (today - was it a link in here? Can&#39;t find it) was that one of the companies developing it is up to 1.6tb and it will get to consumers in 2009. At the moment (they hope to ship it end of the year) it costs $12000 for the drive and $120 I think for one disc. So yeah I&#39;m aware of the stuff you mentioned.

  • June 21, 2006, 8:16 a.m. CST

    Just saw your post newc0235

    by half vader

    And I can&#39;t argue with that. Those darn giant robots!

  • June 21, 2006, 10:48 a.m. CST

    Blu-Ray will rule the world

    by Dannychico

  • June 21, 2006, 11:59 a.m. CST

    Yay people quoted me!

    by quadrupletree

    For the record I had a laserdisc player, still do. 2 in fact. But I didn&#39;t pay a cent for it. And what killed it for me wasn&#39;t the price of the movies, I seem to recall they were about $20-$30?? It was the availability, you couldn&#39;t buy that shit anywhere.

  • June 21, 2006, 12:31 p.m. CST

    Since when is hardware a "killer app"?

    by CrispyOne

  • June 21, 2006, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Quadruple, it&#39;s called the net! ;)

    by half vader

    I just always ordered my discs from Ken Crane&#39;s online. Never had a problem! What country are you in? I&#39;m downunder so there were a few stores that sold PAL but most places had NTSC imports and had to deal with the cops busting them every so often to keep folks like Warner Home Video happy with their precious regions/zones - which was moronic because if anyone was going to see a movie in a cinema it was the laserdisc fan/early adopter! There were only a coupla hundred PAL discs and the resolution may have been higher but the quality control was worse, so NTSC was basically the standard, and there were 10,000 titles to choose from. More Dolby Digital/DTS soundtracks too. I haven&#39;t replaced any of mine bar SW and the Toy Story Box set (which included all the shorts), but I sure will get the new Criterion 7 Samurai. That&#39;s my little story for today. P.S. I hate how people always thought you had to &#39;flip the discs&#39; - there were players like that at the start, but not for a loooonnnng time.

  • ...about the same time DVD took off. Buying LDs off the net wasn&#39;t an option for most of it&#39;s existance, unless you were one of those hold outs thinking that DVD was destined to fail(*cough*Kevin Smith*cough). Most people I knew that bought LDs got them from Tower Records.

  • June 21, 2006, 2:39 p.m. CST

    The bullshitters complaining about the lower end PS3...

    by Johnno

    are also the same idiots saying the PS3 shouldn&#39;t even be a movie player and that they don&#39;t care about Blu-Ray... so what the fuck&#39;s the problem then? If you don&#39;t care about the movies, the lower end PS3 is good enough for you priced the same as the higher end Xbox 360 which includes the hard drive... So if you care about the games so much, there is no problem! Buy the lower end PS3, which can play games at 1080p and fuck blu-ray movies! It&#39;s a game console right? Those of us who&#39;d prefer to have the game and movie in one will shell out for the higher end PS3. Your complaints are worthless...

  • June 21, 2006, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Hmmm...a catch 22?

    by moondoggy2u

    Sony is telling videophiles that the populace will catch on to Blueray once they go out and buy PS3. However, at e3, Sony said the PS3 will be popular once people realize that they can get a blueray player for 600 bucks. Well, an industry cant be marketable until it has become successful; blu-ray wont be enticing until it is PROVEN itself to have mass appeal. Therefore, in the eyes of the average gamer, the idea of a blueray is not going to hold that much appeal, especially when considering a 700$ (after taxes) price tag. It should be painfully obvious to most anyone by now that Sony is about to engage in a potentially fatal catch 22: forcing industry 1 to depend upon the success of industry 2, while industry 2&#39;s survival depends upon the success of industry 1. In laymen&#39;s terms, this is a BAD IDEA! And you guys can quote me on that. ;)

  • June 21, 2006, 4:29 p.m. CST

    Sorry Wash yeah you&#39;re right -and wrong

    by half vader

    "Always&#39; was a bit misleading (not intentionally), as I did get stuff from stores in the first half of the nineties. "About the same time DVD took off"? Well no not really as DVD started in &#39;97, and as the haters are so proud of saying, didn&#39;t "take off" for a few years after that which is why they&#39;re all bellyacheing that the high-def tech has been sprung on us "Too soon!". And no I wasn&#39;t a hold out as I think DVD is the direct descendant of Laserdisc with the only real difference apart from the picture quality being animated menus. I was bloody glad that they&#39;d finally shrunk it down to the size of a cd as it was never going to be a mass-market medium until that happened, and cd-rom wasn&#39;t a mature medium either. My last Laserdisc was Phantom Menace in 99 (yeah yeah I know). I&#39;m happy with the great quality I got from LD for so long, happy with my DVDs, and glad that after 9 years HD has come along. What&#39;s wrong with things improving? Yeah regular DVD will go on for ages yet, early adopters like me will have the quality (and toys) they want, most folks will be happy with regular DVD for a good while yet and then when they eventually are ready there&#39;ll be a great format ready for them at a widely acceptable price (and thankfully the HD-DVD and Blu-ray teething problems the players are going through at the moment will be long-since ironed-out). Peace!

  • June 21, 2006, 4:40 p.m. CST

    wash/anchorite, re: Safari/Firefox

    by Killah_Mate

    Actually, since Firefox is released simultaneously for the Mac (universal binary, actually), there&#39;s really no reason to be stuck with Safari. Safari is nice - in the same way that toy cars are nice: something to play with until you&#39;re ready for the real deal. You want the real deal, you get Firefox (and then customize it with your favorite plugins, extensions and skins). Oh, and I always find it amusing when people complain that the hidef picture is TOO GOOD. Give me a fucking break! "Oh, I can now see that George Clooney is actually a mortal like the rest of us and has a mole and some stubble. How my fragile heart ever survive this!?!" Dunno about your heart, but your eyes will be pretty fucking grateful for the higher resolution.

  • June 21, 2006, 4:57 p.m. CST

    Also, re: takeoff time

    by Killah_Mate

    Yes, DVD took two years to get on its feet. TWO YEARS. Does anyone here think it&#39;s failed as a format? Not really. So, HD-DVD and/or Blu-ray will realistically take over somewhere in the summer of 2008 (just in time for the big shift to HDTV). Sounds completely plausible to me. (And no, two years from now the Internet still won&#39;t be remotely close to being able to support widespread hidef downloading.)

  • June 21, 2006, 4:58 p.m. CST

    I &#39;concur with Killah&#39;!

    by half vader

    Like I say I&#39;m waiting a few months to make the jump but I do have a 2560 x 1600 rez montor and I did a comparison just for fun between 1080p trailers (yeah I know that&#39;s much more compressed than a disc but still) and the same frame of the same movie on a regular DVD. The difference is just amazing. There&#39;s a bit of dog-in-the-manger denial going on about that one, for sure. I know you disagree from an earlier post. but I reckon high def is ALWAYS warranted, even for talking heads or chick-flicks, as if the increased resolution means you catch all the subtleties of an actor&#39;s facial performance that you saw on the big screen, then that&#39;s preferable to me every time. Same as anamorphic (film ratio) is good as you can get either a two-shot instead of cutting or closer on the singles. But that&#39;s subjective and if you get a BAD actor it probably likewise magnifies the horror! And God only knows what Sally Field&#39;s screechy voice sounds like in uncompressed High-def DTS!

  • June 21, 2006, 5:01 p.m. CST

    And by a few months I mean next year!

    by half vader

    Got into DVD in 98 after they&#39;d worked their early shit out. Whee!

  • June 21, 2006, 5:13 p.m. CST

    half vader

    by Killah_Mate

    I don&#39;t disagree in principle, but I do think that from a budget perspective (as opposed to rebuying your entire movie library) it&#39;s a bearable sacrifice.

  • June 21, 2006, 5:29 p.m. CST

    I getcha.

    by half vader

    Yeah, the whole HAVE to replace my library thing is pretty stupid. And yeah budget is very valid (at least I can write some of my stuff off on tax). I was talking new purchases. Not that eloquent, me. One thing just occurred to me. Do you think there are any folks on these boards who fell for Divx? At least with HD-DVD or Blu-ray (as opposed to downloads) you don&#39;t have to be spied on if you don&#39;t want to. That&#39;s something I guess.

  • June 21, 2006, 5:48 p.m. CST

    First Sony BR player now delayed till Oct 25!???

    by Gabba-UK

    check out sonystyle.com if you don&#39;t believe me.. I have no doubt now that the whole HD-DVD/Blu-Ray conflict is now over and neither side is the winner. I have always been a first adopter, love my gadgets, love Hi-def gaming for my 360 but the idea of shelling out a-fucking-gain for films I already have, that look even better on DVD now I have an upscaling DVD player hooked to my HD-TV, just leaves me cold. Based on what I&#39;ve seen of hi-def material from the net and played either via the 360 or a PC, I can give no justification to myself to buy an HD player so I can pay once again for a &#39;better&#39; version of T2. Does the clearer picture quality make it a better film? No. Will a turd of a film like Doom be less of a floater when I watch it it in Hi-Def? No, that film will suck as much in Hi-def as it does on DVD. For this consumer, and I suspect millions of others, DVD will still be king of the hill for many more years yet. Unless Sony and the other distributers do what I think they will do and stop making DVD&#39;s of the big blockbusters to force you all to go Hi-Def. Mark my words it&#39;s going to happen.

  • June 21, 2006, 7:35 p.m. CST

    Full-screen DVD?

    by mr Broots

    If people buy the fullscreen versions of movies, how strong will the demand for HD-Dvd&#39;s really be?(As the general public will call them, despite them being Blue Ray and what not. You got your regular tv and your HD-TV. "Where can I get a Blu ray ready-TV?") How well do these 4:3 versions sell in the States anyway? here in Europe you have to really look hard for a 4:3 television in the stores, many thanks to DVD. (and 16:9 broadcasting)

  • June 21, 2006, 7:55 p.m. CST

    Yeah, lots of people still buy full-screen because...

    by Z0D

    they don&#39;t own a widescreen HD supercalifragalisticexpialidocious television. I betcha 80% of the country&#39;s population still owns only a 4:3 tube that&#39;s only 32" or less and only has a stand-alone DVD player. I&#39;ve always said SONY is retarded with their own technology (PS3, PS2, minidisc, UMD, PSP, etc). This High-Def stuff is going nowhere. Fast. ___KNEEL___

  • June 21, 2006, 8:04 p.m. CST

    I&#39;m the proud owner of a 27" tv set.

    by moondoggy2u

    But I still buy all my movies, where applicable, in widescreen format. After all, I want to see the ENTIRE movie. My wife, on the other hand, prefers full screen and CANT tell the difference between VCR and DVD quality. Then again, she still listens to the Backstreet boys, so what does she know?

  • June 22, 2006, 6:12 a.m. CST

    Hey, listen you -

    by half vader

    Backstreet&#39;s back, alright?!

  • June 22, 2006, 6:54 a.m. CST

    Realistically

    by Ridge

    I think its a load of bluff and bluster and neither format will really dominate when you consider how the average consumer took quite a long time to catch onto dvd in the first place. As for the &#39;bullshit&#39; comment about the lower end sku for ps3? It&#39;s not bullshit you fucktard, the lower end Ps3 does NOT come with HDMI output, thus making it a LITTLE difficult (sarcasm on the little...) to get the true hi definition playback on games OR movies. Halfvader, yeah, sorry man didn&#39;t mean to sound hyper-critical, apologies there by all means, and wow, 1.6 terabyte????? Fuck!!! 12 grand for a player? Phwoar... wont be getting one of those any time soon! lol But, again, in 5 - 6 years time who knows what we&#39;ll be doing, in 10 years time, maybe we wont even be using discs and will be direct downloading? Who knows?

  • June 22, 2006, 9:02 a.m. CST

    half vader

    by moondoggy2u

    according to my wife, Backstreet never went away in the first place. And as far as this whole HD garbage is concerned, HD players are still 2 to 3 years away from being embraced by the masses--at best.

  • June 22, 2006, 9:06 a.m. CST

    Damn enter button

    by moondoggy2u

    In other words, the entire debate of HDDVD and Bluray is going to be fought amongst those technological mining canaries known as early adopters for the next couple of years or so. The only thing that irks me (to a slight degree) is that Sony&#39;s catering its gaming division towards the canaries, rather than gamers. Oh well, thats why I&#39;m thankful for XBOX360 and Wii--they actually seem to be interested in MY needs as a gamer.

  • June 22, 2006, 10:31 a.m. CST

    Don&#39;t begrudge the canaries their excitement/function

    by half vader

    Fair enough about the PS3 and I&#39;m playing Devil&#39;s advocate here rather than arguing, but the thing is going to have a 5-7 year cycle, and why would they want to spend most of that with an old disc format? I&#39;m not knocking the X360 at all as it&#39;s hellacool, but jury-rigging is not the best solution and I really hope the add-on is only for movie playback (begging the question - why not get a standalone and why are they doing it in the first place?) as many people will be awfully upset if they start putting games out on them and essentially do what folks are hating Sony for, but with the added level of being sucked in under false pretenses (buying first & having to upgrade to HD). Just speculating there though. I think they weighed it all up and in the end said being a year in front of Sony is worth having an &#39;older&#39; (I&#39;m not saying it&#39;s a bad format remember) storage/playback medium. Which is fair enough from a business point of view. It&#39;s too bad you feel HD is garbage. You don&#39;t have to buy it. But don&#39;t slag off early adopters like me who are entirely happy that progress is marching on. I have a 29" telly too (waiting for SED from, yes Toshiba) and ironically enough it&#39;s a Sony with a fantastic linedoubler. Everyone slags them off because it&#39;s both fashionable and they deserve it, but I reckon their DRC stuff (fancy-pants name for linedoubling/uprezzing) made their standard-def rear projection sets look twice as good (scanlines were so obvious on regular RP sets) - and they didn&#39;t charge like a Faroudja. Great on a standard telly too. Anyway, 9 years of the DVD format is pretty good before introducing a new tech. (adoption is a separate thing) and quite fair in my opinion. Yes Ken Kutaragi is a raving lunatic but Yamauchi was just as up himself, and then there&#39;s Gates&#39; lot, so it all evens out really. Did you read any of my other posts about early adoption (don&#39;t mean to sound like a wanker there)? The canaries are a little like soldiers fighting a war you don&#39;t agree with. You may find the war itself unnecessary and hate the polititians that sent them, but you should still respect the soldiers for going. I&#39;m not talking any war in particular so don&#39;t get upset, it&#39;s just a small analogy. Finally, I was quoting a Backstreet lyric with that post and boy am I sorry but I had to get rid of it somehow!___________Ridge thanks man that&#39;s cool. You might want to dig a little about the non-HDMI stuff though. They&#39;ve said games will play at full rez through the other inputs, and movies will play at full rez too unless the movie studio decides to implement the down-rezzing thing which is software not hardware controlled. I could be wrong, but that&#39;s what I recall coming from Sony. Maybe I should have another look too.

  • June 22, 2006, 10:38 a.m. CST

    Oops

    by half vader

    I meant to say activated, not implemented. And as for the &#39;begging the question&#39; yes I do know about the supposed $200 price which was withdrawn from the official site (not the $100 garbage that the sycophants keep quoting), but I&#39;m talking Microsoft&#39;s motivations.

  • June 22, 2006, 10:46 a.m. CST

    half vader

    by moondoggy2u

    Oh, i dont mean any offense by calling early adopters mining canaries. I totally agree with you on the need for adopters and their purpose, but i still call them mining canaries (but i do it with a smile, not an angry demeanor). Believe it or not, if i had the disposable income, I probably would be a canary as well (its fun to play with cool stuff). That said, I am still upset with Sony&#39;s attempt at forcing gamers to become early adopters (if they want the next gen, that is), which brings me right back to why i&#39;ll be buying 360. OH, and I have read your posts before, half. Hell, you and I have had this same discussion in how many threads--a dozen or so? Its pretty fair to say that you and I are pretty much in lock-step agreement, save for one of us being able to be an EA and the other only willing to be a gamer who is content to ride the DVD bandwagon for another 5 years or so.

  • June 22, 2006, 11:57 a.m. CST

    Ridge

    by Johnno

    The Lower end PS3 without the HDMI is perfect for those complainging that the PS3 does not need movies, and that they do not have a high end HDTV and the price is too high... It&#39;s perfect for them! Does Xbox 360 have HDMI? NO! Does that mean games aren&#39;t playing in HD? PS3 games will still be in HD! SO all those hardcore GAME PLAYERS, and GAME PLAYERS ONLY, like moondoggy2u, Can have no room for bitching, because the lower end PS3 will facilitate those needs... it comes with a harddrive and costs the same as the higher end 360, with some degree of Blu-ray movie playback. However those who are concerned about Blu-Ray and want the movie playback for our HDMI equipped HDTVs WILL have to go with the more expensive PS3, which is still a deal, though if one is really dedicated to their home theatre experience it&#39;ll be better to get a good stand-alone player...

  • June 22, 2006, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Johnno

    by moondoggy2u

    you&#39;re still missing the point. If i dont want a blueray player, why on earth would i spend 500 dollars on a machine that has less options than the high end 360 and will cost 200 dollars MORE (after Xbox&#39;s price lowers during PS3&#39;s launch)? See, what im basically paying for, should i get the low end PS3, is an EXTRA 200 dollars for a device i wont be able to use. I can&#39;t help but feel that I&#39;m repeating what a thousand other consumers have been shouting about ever since this past E3 show.

  • June 22, 2006, 12:59 p.m. CST

    and im talking about consumers who come to AICN

    by moondoggy2u

    and other game sites i visit.

  • June 22, 2006, 1:12 p.m. CST

    and one more important point, jonny

    by moondoggy2u

    If the only way to truly experience the next gen consoles is by having an HDTV, and this is INDEED THE ONLY WAY, then the low end PS3 is completely useless--no HD outputs. So no matter how you slice it to support sony, in the end, come this fall, my best choice will be an xbox 360. It will cost me half as much as a PS3, deliver the same visual performance as the PS3 for the next 3 years (and only then begin to lag behind SONY), and will be immediately available where as the PS3 will undergo the inevitable price gouging, shortages, and poor gaming choices that occurs to debuting systems. Its just that simple of a choice, Johnno. I&#39;m not saying that PS3 doesnt have a market. I am saying, however, that PS3 isnt geared towards gamers like myself and many, many others and would represent a poorer investment than the competition. And believe me, I buy any system that is marketed to me--I&#39;m no fanboy.

  • June 22, 2006, 1:17 p.m. CST

    And may I say that I was rooting for Sony

    by moondoggy2u

    up until this past e3 show. I truly did not want the xbox 360 to become super successful because other companies would realize microsoft&#39;s success was due almost entirely to arriving FIRST, thus shortening the generational spans by at least a year, maybe more. That part really ticks me off because these machines should have a 6 year lifespan, not 4 and a half, which is what will happen should microsoft come out the "winner" of the so-called console wars.

  • June 22, 2006, 2:19 p.m. CST

    uh.... somewhat disingenuous comparison.

    by ar42

    "For $100 more you get a player that plays CDs, DVDs, hidef movies and every PS 1 and PS 2 game you own plus whatever games they have in store for us." HD-DVD can also play CDs, DVDs, and hidef movies. So really the only advantage you can come up with is that it&#39;s also a game system. Fair enough, but come on man. Be honest.

  • June 22, 2006, 4:15 p.m. CST

    Sony can eat shit and die

    by SPACEHUNTER3-D

  • June 22, 2006, 4:40 p.m. CST

    Just wait already!

    by alienindisguise

    A picture can only get so clear and crisp. I&#39;m sticking with standard dvd until the other two have laid waste to each other in about 5 years and then step up.

  • June 22, 2006, 8:46 p.m. CST

    moondoggy, the blu-ray isn&#39;t wasted on PS3...

    by Johnno

    Even if movie playback is tossed out, games will still be on Blu-Ray! Whether developers will use up all the space for gameplay elements is unknown, though we know that developers who like using pre rendered FMV will need to make them HD and therefore require the space only Blu-Ray will provide, them and possibly those having trouble with compression...

  • June 22, 2006, 10:48 p.m. CST

    Well...

    by Ridge

    "Does Xbox 360 have HDMI?" actually it does through the hdmi cables... but lets not look at facts... a bluray player that wont play in hidef... its kind of like having a dvd player with vcr level playback...

  • June 22, 2006, 11:48 p.m. CST

    pre rendered scenes

    by moondoggy2u

    Okay, Johnno, then your justification for an extra 200 dollar price tag for a bluray player that wont play hi def (thus defeating the ultimate point of bluray) is so that i can enjoy more pre-rendered, non playable scenes in my games. I&#39;m sorry, but that still doesnt sell me.

  • June 23, 2006, 6:19 a.m. CST

    One interesting thing to note :

    by Ridge

    A lot of people came away from E3 after seeing the ps3 presentation noting that the graphics &#39;were no better than the 360&#39;. This is the word also coming back from a lot of developers too. Of course, this generation I&#39;m all about the gameplay over the movie playback... that&#39;s why the Wii has me fascinated :D

  • June 23, 2006, 6:27 a.m. CST

    sigh...

    by half vader

    Nice bit of supposition there Anchorite. Even thought there are many similarities between the two systems, one difference is that BR reads more data per second, but spins slower. Avoiding exactly the problem you&#39;re talking about. At least I&#39;m trying to be fair with the two sides, but considering the confusion about HDMI I guess it&#39;s not surprising. Yeah, I agree cutscenes are a very weak argument, but come on. Anchorite, settle down with the unsubstantiated bullshit - the cell technology is unstable and glitchy, eh? What other talkbacker did you hear that from (&#39;cause I know that if that stuff was official you&#39;d be quoting line and verse)? Ridge, what&#39;s with your "BR player that won&#39;t play in high-def"? If you&#39;re going to be that sure of yourself at least back it up with something or qualify it with some sort of disclaimer. Did you miss my reply to you in the "Don&#39;t begrudge" post? I thought you were being so reasonable in your other post! And here you say "Let&#39;s not look at facts" - I thought you were being sarcastic, not serious!

  • June 23, 2006, 6:32 a.m. CST

    Although Ridge,

    by half vader

    I do absolutely agree with you about E3 being a fiasco. They got a bit ahead of themselves with that pre-rendered stuff at E3 the year before - why did they think programmers would be able to match that straight out of the gate, or surpass X360&#39;s 2nd wave of games? Idiots! Yes, I&#39;m super excited about Wii. Too bad about the horsepower, but to paraphrase, "The game&#39;s the thing"!

  • June 23, 2006, 6:50 a.m. CST

    Vader, unless youre posting under

    by Ridge

    2 different names, nothing bad was aimed at you, sorry if it seemed so? Something you might find interesting, I personally found it fascinating : http://gear.ign.com/articles/709/709495p1.html IGN&#39;s article about the lacking ability to play back at 1080i on the lower end sku. It&#39;s gonna be a royal pain in the ass I tell you lol. It would&#39;nt be a problem if hdmi was something you could just say, slot into it like an addon, or like the hdd on the 360 as per se, but, unfortunately its not :\

  • June 23, 2006, 7:21 a.m. CST

    And Johnno

    by Ridge

    Just to clarify something, the Xbox360 DOES play games in hi def through HDMI output, it&#39;s built into the system, unfortunately it plays back at 1080p instead of 1080i, which whilst initially is a bad thing in theory, is only noticeable if you truly know what to look for. The lack of hdmi ability on the ps3 lower ender, has more than just the lack of ports to worry about. The software protection going onto hddvd and blurays in future, prevents playback at 1080i or p, if it does not detect hdmi outputs. It then lowers the resolution to 540 res, basically a teeny tiny bit better than dvd, if that.

  • June 23, 2006, 8:03 a.m. CST

    Fair enough mate, I&#39;ll check it out!

    by half vader

    Weird, I do go to IGN every day, must&#39;ve missed that one - what I&#39;d read over there previously, coming directly from the mouths of Sony and not just rumour, was that non-HDMI ports would still output in high-def unless the downrezzing is activated, which is for movies not games. Like I said, whether or not the downrezzing is EVER activated is up to the Movie companies to flag on the movie (not game) disc. It&#39;s not a sure thing in exactly the same ways as region protection was insisted upon by financial backers for DVD, and in the end abandoned by most of the companies that implemented it in the first place, so there is a precedent. I&#39;m not disagreeing Ridge, and I understand that it&#39;s something to be very fucking wary of, but like I say, maybe common sense will win out like it did before. The other precedent was the Non-copy music CDs. That didn&#39;t last for long, did it? The sleaziest thing here though is that excepting Columbia, the hardware companies have left it to the software/movie studios to be the bad guys on whether they use it. Clever, but sneaky considering they provided the facility in the first place. On the other hand, do you really think they would have got the studios&#39; support if they&#39;d REFUSED to allow for it? BTW Sorry if I misunderstood you and no, I&#39;ve only got the one stupid name (makes more sense if you&#39;re English/Aussie). I will go look at that article, but for now I&#39;m WAY behind on work and the director will freak if I don&#39;t get a lot done very soon!

  • June 23, 2006, 8:06 a.m. CST

    P.S. Ridge

    by half vader

    Did you get 1080i and p mixed up there for the 360? I got confused when you said 1080p was a bad thing, and I thought the 360 only went to 1080i. So too for the first wave of HD-DVD players.

  • June 23, 2006, 8:14 a.m. CST

    Vader,

    by Ridge

    Im tired as shit right now posting on here LOL, its late and I probably did get them mixed up the wrong way around. I or P, can&#39;t remember, if anyone here thinks I did, google it, find out and yeah, thats the ticket... lol. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • June 23, 2006, 8:16 a.m. CST

    Im Australian lol

    by Ridge

    And yeah Im fully aware its only if the companies choose to activate the software on the bluray/hddvd if they want to. But that in itself is a big problem as we know they most likely will to try to combat piracy...

  • June 23, 2006, 8:18 a.m. CST

    Oh and Vader

    by Ridge

    One thing to remember, is that Sony, MS and anyone else producing hi def items, consider anything over 320x240 (television standard I think?) to be hi definition, so technically Sony arent speaking out their ass, but personally I take whatever reps say with a grain of salt lol. After all, tho Nintendo get a little wierd at times, they definitely don&#39;t speak the shit that Microsoft and Sony do...

  • June 23, 2006, 12:44 p.m. CST

    VC-1 Superior

    by MinasTirithII

    And if $ony decides not to use it, they will need more than 50gb to makes thier movies look good. BluRay is not superior in any way shape or form except in storage size. And even that is a non-factor if you use the right codec. BLURAY Loses.

  • June 23, 2006, 12:46 p.m. CST

    True HD $ony BullShit

    by MinasTirithII

    $ony has true had, that is 1080P. Too bad nothing is in 1080P yet. $ony are idiots, stop supporting idiots and liars.

  • June 23, 2006, 12:46 p.m. CST

    Fair enough about the lower end PS3 being a bad choice

    by Johnno

    for hi def movies... and unless I&#39;m mistaken isn&#39;t the HDMI for Xbox 360 only on the attachable HD-DVD Drive? I&#39;m not sure, but from what I thought the Xbox 360 itself didn&#39;t have HDMI... I could be wrong. But the whole issue with the HDMI only has to do with the HDCP racket, right! Otherwise doesn&#39;t DVI work out just as well? Which is good enough is you&#39;re only going to play games? Because the visual quality of the games will not be affaected by the copy protection/dowgrading of HD movies... Also concerning games with FMV not being appealing enough, the point is that developers that have really good games in accompanyment with FMV, for a vague example, Square Enix, that means potentially good games made by the company will not appear on 360 unless they release on multiple discs. Also Japanese developers making games for 360 found they had to cut out a lot of FMV if not all, so as far as I see it kinda limits the developer&#39;s vision. I personally get a kick out of FMV, though I know it&#39;s possibly to create exceptional in game cinematics like Hideo Kojima does with Metal Gear... then of course there is the unknown factor about whether developers can really or will make use of the additional space Blu-Ray provides (without considering FMV). That has a time will tell factor so we don&#39;t know... but simply put it doesn&#39;t have to take up the entire disc but significantly outdo the storage of a DVD-9. Frankly to avoid the unnecessary hassle, I&#39;m getting the more expensive PS3, and what is shitty is that the lower end is not upgradable like the 360&#39;s lower end. I&#39;m also pretty pissed that Sony&#39;s controller will not support rumble, which really fucks up the enjoyment of older PS2 games that made use of it, as well as developers creating PS3 games that utilize it in important ways like the game &#39;Metronome.&#39; That by far is my biggest issue with Sony...

  • June 23, 2006, 12:47 p.m. CST

    wrong

    by MinasTirithII

    by Dannychico June 20th, 2006 02:51:55 PM CST And, as consumers, we should all be hoping Blu-Ray wins. It&#39;s a superior technology. Your movies and all the extras will finally fit on one disc. HD-DVD can&#39;t say the same thing.---------------------------- -------------------- Uhhhh, No. They had to leave off Terminiator Extras fool.

  • June 23, 2006, 12:48 p.m. CST

    MinasTirithII

    by Johnno

    I believe, Grand Turismo HD will run at 1080p

  • June 23, 2006, 12:51 p.m. CST

    Johnno

    by MinasTirithII

    I&#39;m talking movies here. So far the available BR movies, none were encoded with 1080p. And that&#39;s amazingly funny. Please don&#39;t mention $ony vapor ware again.

  • June 23, 2006, 12:53 p.m. CST

    avsforums.com

    by MinasTirithII

    To see the misery that BluRay has caused already. $ony and their lies once again shine for all to see.

  • June 23, 2006, 1:52 p.m. CST

    Well, I dont know about others

    by moondoggy2u

    But I don&#39;t hope and pray for Sony&#39;s demise. My only beef is that Sony seems intent upon skipping the early adoption process and acting as though bluray is already the dominant media, thus foisting the technology on gamers. Again, I dont hold any animosity towards them--I simply will not buy a product that I have little need for. Its as simple as that, boys and girls. Of course, now that I&#39;ve shown my inability to rant and rave, no one will read this post...;)

  • June 23, 2006, 1:59 p.m. CST

    $ony

    by MinasTirithII

    $ony wants your BluRay $$. They are claiming they have a superior product, but that&#39;s not even true. $ony propaganda is in full force, and they can&#39;t even get BluRay working yet.

  • June 23, 2006, 7:18 p.m. CST

    Still

    by Ridge

    With all the hoo haa and the hubub we&#39;ve caused on here, again, I say, I doubt EITHER format will actually replace the common dvd. I see the dvd becoming cheaper yet because of the two, and the mass consumer choosing to go that way. Seeing as most people don&#39;t have hidef players. Oh and the big problem at the moment as well, is that the hdmi software piracy encoding can actually be applied to games as well, and possibly will be infuture if developers only want their games looking &#39;pretty&#39;. Foolish move but you know someones gonna do it...

  • June 23, 2006, 7:31 p.m. CST

    Oh one thing

    by Ridge

    I do believe all ps3 games are initially coded in 1080 and then scaled back for lower end monitors/tv&#39;s/whatevers. As for the whole &#39;they can use 50gb&#39; thing, I know a lot of developers and a few laughed at that comment. Do you know that to this day, only one, maybe two Sony games actually used a whole dvd? One was San Andreas, the other I dont know what it was. Remember, no game has yet exceeded 10gb... uncompressed hi def footage will look nice, but it certainly wont take gigabyte upon gigabyte...

  • June 23, 2006, 8:06 p.m. CST

    I agree, ridge

    by moondoggy2u

    Furthermore, because there will be almost NO difference between an HD-DVD disc and a Bluray, most consumers wont even see the point of purchasing an HD player that costs twice as much as the other HD player (ala bluray v. HD DVD). Course, I think its all pretty much a moot argument since HD technology wont even be embraced by the masses for at least another 2 to 3 years

  • June 25, 2006, 11:36 a.m. CST

    Where THE ZONE Go???

    by ZombieSolutions

    Where THE ZONE Go???

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