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ScoreKeeper Chats With Composer Lalo Schifrin!!
ScoreKeeper had a chance to speak with the amazing Lalo Schifrin.
Schifrin's impressive (and eclectic) list of credits includes George Lucas' THX-1138, multiple DIRTY HARRY films, THE AMITYVILLE HORROR (remember the eeries "Laaaa, La" theme?), ENTER THE DRAGON (Bruce Lee), THE CAT FROM OUTER SPACE (probably not high in Schifrin's stack of calling cards, but when I was a kid I thought Jake the talking space cat's glowing collar was unbearably cool...actually, it still is...so I had to mention it), the RUSH HOUR films, and, of course, the MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE theme. Schifrin recently scored ABOMINABLE -- his son Ryan's first directorial effort.
Here's ScoreKeeper and Lalo. And, yes, ScoreKeeper asked Lalo if he was ever approached to score X-Men: The Last Stand -- an assignment many AICNers believed inevitable given Schifrin's past association director Brett Ratner. Read on for the answer, and....ENJOY!
Greetings! ScoreKeeper here with an uber-cool interview with the
legendary composer Lalo Schifrin.
He just recently scored his son
Ryan’s first film, ABOMINABLE. I wasn’t planning on writing up a full
review of the score, but I do want to say that I think it’s one of
the best horror scores that I’ve heard in a long while. Who should be
surprised? Lalo is a true genius and it was one of the highlights of
my career to speak with him.
Read away!
ScoreKeeper: You just recently wrapped up your score for ABOMINABLE,
which was the feature-film directorial debut of your son Ryan. This
is the first time, that I can recall, that a father has scored his
own son’s movie. Talk to me about working with your son Ryan,
especially in regards to your collaborative relationship?
Lalo Schifrin: Well it was no different than working with any other
director. I’ve done about one hundred movies, many television series,
and many movies-of-the-week. I’ve worked with great directors in the
past. It was no different. While we were working, the father-son
relationship didn’t exist because I was working for the movie like I
always do. It was what was coming from the screen that inspired me.
Of course I knew that it was my son, but while I was working that had
nothing to do with it.
SK: Were you relying more on him or was he relying more on you?
LS: Well, first of all when I saw the film put together my respect
for Ryan as a director - you see he studied at the USC film school
and did some short subjects which I have seen - but this one
impressed me a lot and I developed a lot of respect for him as a
director.
Our relationship was very professional. He had some ideas
in mind. Of course he drafted me because he knew my track record. He
proposed to me to do the scoring and was delighted that I would do
it. Not only because he was my son, but he also has a lot of
admiration for me. He collects all my soundtracks and is very
familiar with my work.
SK: When Ryan came to you and asked you to score his film was it an
automatic “yes”?
LS: First I had to see the film. When I saw the film I said ‘of
course.’ The film was very professionally done and I thought that I
could make a contribution.
SK: I hate to use the old cliché but your score for ABOMINABLE has
such a wonderful “old school” style approach to it. So many new
horror scores lean more towards atmospheric noise. It’s wonderful to
hear melody, harmony, and rhythm in a horror score.
LS: Well let me tell you, If Ryan had asked me to write an electronic
score based on noises like what is being done today, I would not have
accepted it. As a matter of fact, he also wanted a symphony orchestra
and we were able to get it and do it that way.
SK: This is a low-budget film but would you consider this a low-
budget score? Since Ryan directed it, did he allocate in the budget a
larger proportion than usual toward music? It certainly doesn’t sound
like your typical low-budget horror film score.
LS: I was lucky. That part I didn’t know how to solve. I was lucky
because I happened to be doing a concert tour in Europe with the
National Czech Symphony Orchestra. I had worked with them in the
past. Their studios and their salaries in comparison with other
salaries in other parts of the world are not too expensive. So in
that sense the score didn’t cost too much.
SK: How large was the orchestra you used on that score?
LS: Ninety pieces.
SK: One of the things that I’ve always loved about your music is you
do what is necessary and no more. Whether it be the spotting of the
film, the size of the ensemble, or the scoring in general, it’s
always where it should be and not a note more. In contrast, it seems
to me that so many modern day composers are rushing out there to
compose bigger, louder, and faster scores. When you watch other films
do you get that feeling as well? Do you think that films today are
overscored?
LS: First of all let me thank you for your compliment. I can not
answer your question because I am not a critic. Maybe that is your
function but not mine. I can not criticize my colleagues. I think
that would be unethical. It’s not because of politics or because I am
afraid of the consequences. It’s because I think that I am living in
our time and I am part of our time and I have to be objective…The
evolution of film music since the beginning with silent films until
our days, there have been so many changes.
And it all depends on the
style of the films, the pace of the directors…For example, Alfred
Hitchcock always used Bernard Herrmann…they had a sympathy. Just like
Henry Mancini and Blake Edwards. I developed with Stuart Rosenberg
(COOL HAND LUKE, THE AMITYVILLE HORROR) and Don Siegel (DIRTY HARRY)
the same kind of simpatico – parallel ideas. Today’s directors have
their own pace, their own objectives and their own roles.
SK: I thought the overall mix in ABOMINABLE was great! Usually horror
scores are buried under so much sound effects that they don’t have
the opportunity to affect their audiences. Were you there at the
final mix and did you have control over that? I’d also imagine the
son of a famous film composer knows better.
LS: No I didn’t have the time…Oh, wait a second…There was a first
mix, a rough mix that I did in Prague but then the final mix was done
here (Los Angeles) and I couldn’t go.
SK: Were you satisfied with the mix in the end?
LS: Of course! But I also trusted Ryan who likes the music loud. He
agrees with me. Why have such a big orchestra? I worked very hard on
this film. Why then lose this effort under the sound effects? Ryan
was looking for music to make a contribution and enhance his ideas
and concepts about the film.
SK: How long did it take you to compose the score?
LS: The same amount of time it takes me on any film….around five to
six weeks.
SK: You haven’t scored many horror films throughout your career, THE
MANITOU, DAY OF THE ANIMALS, THE AMITYVILLE HORROR, and AMITYVILLE
II: THE POSSESSION being the core of your horror filmography. After
your success with ABOMINABLE, would you welcome a healthy dose of
future horror scoring? I think film music fans sure would.
LS: I would welcome good movies to score. Movies that inspire me.
Because of the success of BULLITT, MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE, MANNIX, DIRTY
HARRY and the sequels of DIRTY HARRY, I’ve been typecast as an action
composer. Bernard Herrmann once said to me something very important
and I believe it. ‘There is no such thing as a film composer. There
are only composers.’ So a composer should be able to handle comedy,
tragedy, romance…I think it was a little bit of lady luck that put me
in the position to get more and more action films.
But I did THE
AMITYVILLE HORROR, and ROLLERCOASTER which is not really a horror
film but there is terror in it and I used a totally different
approach. I used mostly amusement park music – calliopes, children’s
rides, merry-go-rounds, I created that music to play against the
scene, except for a few moments that were absolutely terrifying. I
don’t like to play by the book. I am like the bullfighter who places
himself very close to the horns of the bull. I like to take chances.
SK: I can definitely hear that. I think that is one of the reasons I
am so attracted to your work. It’s so unique and refreshing. I want
to talk about typecasting a little bit. You’ve had such a long
career. Did you ever find yourself struggling with being typecast?
Were you constantly trying to convince producers that a good composer
can compose anything? It seems true to this day that composers are
very easily typecast after succeeding in a particular genre.
LS: Well, let me put it this way…I’m not complaining. For instance,
the success of MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE made it possible for many open
doors in other areas. I’m getting a lot of commissions from symphony
orchestras…
As a matter of fact, the Chicago Symphony about a year and
a half ago premiered a work of mine called “Fantasy for Screenplay
and Orchestra,” which is a virtual movie. It has no story. The
audience can make up the story in their mind. I wrote it in
movements, the first movement is called “Main Title,” the second
movement is called “Film Noir,” the third movement is called “The
Silent Comedians,” then comes the “Love Theme,” and finally “The
Final Conflict.” It’s an abstract piece of music but at the same time
there is no story. So the success that I have from MISSION:
IMPOSSIBLE, DIRTY HARRY or BULLITT, they helped me to do my own thing.
SK: Is there going to be a CD release for the “Fantasy for Screenplay
and Orchestra”?
LS: I’m going to try. I think it’s going to be part of a CD. I’m
going to play it at the world premiere of this piece that I wrote for
the Sydney Symphony and I think they’re going to record the whole
concert in which case the Fantasy will be included. But I don’t know
yet.
SK: Between scoring films, composing concert pieces, conducting or
performing, what’s the one thing that you like to do the most?
LS: Oh, I’m doing it. I’m doing everything I like…I am very happy.
Maybe this is the secret of my vitality. I feel rejuvenated all the
time. When I think about how old I am and how much I’ve done, how
much I want to do, and how much I need to do…I’m not going to retire.
SK: Where you ever approached to score any of the MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE
films?
LS: No I was not.
SK: Did that ever bother you at all?
LS: No. I’ve done too many MISSION: IMPOSSIBLES.
SK: If somebody had asked you is that a project you think you
would’ve done?
LS: Well, If I had been available…That was one thing that happened. I
was not available when they did the first MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE. I was
on a conducting tour.
SK: There are a handful of composers who are credited with a single
musical idea that becomes ingrained in the musical lexicon of our
culture, such as John Williams’ theme from JAWS, or Bernard
Herrmann’s shower scene from PSYCHO. The MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE theme
has reached that zenith where its popularity seems to transcend the
film, or in this case a television show, for which it was written.
What does it mean for you to have something that you wrote so long
ago become such a facet of our popular culture?
LS: Well in that particular case it gives me great satisfaction
because new generations of film-goers and the public in general like
this music and it makes me feel in touch with a young generation.
It’s like I am reaching across time and again, it rejuvenates me. I’m
not a museum piece.
SK: When Brett Ratner was signed to direct X-MEN: THE LAST STAND, the
first thing that came to my mind was the possibility of hearing a
Lalo Schifrin comic book/super hero score. I was disappointed when I
found out you were not going to score the film. I’m curious, were you
ever approached to do X-MEN 3?
LS: No. But it didn’t matter because I was busy doing other things.
But I’m glad the movie was successful. When a movie is successful
it’s good for the whole industry.
SK: You’ve been known throughout your career to utilize jazz idioms
and textures into your film music. When I look out there today jazz
seems to have been relegated to romantic-comedies or lighter-fare
films. Is jazz gone from mainstream film music and if so, is it
possible we can ever really get it back?
LS: Your questions are very good. This one is difficult to answer.
You know why? I’ll tell you why. I have to deal with the film I get.
Jazz doesn’t work in all films. It did work in BULLITT and in DIRTY
HARRY, although I didn’t do jazz. It was more of a fusion of jazz and
acid-rock. Mainly because I felt that that was part of the period and
part of the villain, Scorpio. It worked. I used a propulsive rhythm
section and on top of that I scored it like any other movie. If there
is a movie that requires jazz I’ll put in a walking-bass line and a
drummer and I still score it the same way.
SK: So they’re not making movies anymore that require jazz scores?
LS: Well, I haven’t seen any yet. But that doesn’t mean they’re not
going to be made. Sometimes things come back periodically whether
they evolve or change or who knows.
SK: Being a fan of film music and a film composer myself this may
seem paradoxical but I really love it when a film works with very
little music or when a particular scene works without any music at
all. Although I love the music you write I’m almost more impressed by
your cleverness of when not to write. For example, in BULLITT there
is music leading right up to the famous car chase sequence but when
the high speed pursuit begins there is no music at all throughout
that entire sequence. What do you look for or what is your overall
philosophy when you sit down to spot a film?
LS: I have no philosophy. I just look at the film and my instincts
tell me. I hear the score already in my mind. I wish there was an
electronic means to transport or communicate to the paper what I
really hear in my mind.
Also, do not forget, there was a style of
music (in the 50’s) called musique concrète -- which was based on noise. A door opening and
closing can by musical means create inventions, fugues, many
different things. So I told the director of BULLILTT who wanted music
under the car chase, ‘No, you don’t need it’. You have to orchestrate
that scene with sound effects because sound is also part of the
soundtrack. Sound is music. Noises are music too.
SK: I couldn’t agree with you more. I would like to see more
filmmakers acknowledging that. Are there any other promotional
events you’d like to talk about? I hear you’re about to go on tour in
a few days.
LS: Well, the first concert is in Linz, Austria with the Bruckner
Orchestra Linz…They are going to perform my own music from classical
to jazz to films. Then I’m going to go to other cities. The last
concert I’m going to give in Cologne. On the eve of the finals of the
World Cup, in front of the cathedral in Cologne, I’m not going to
conduct a symphony orchestra but a jazz band. So maybe I have the
problem of being too versatile?
SK: (laughs) It’s a good problem to have.
LS: (laughs) Yes.
SK: Well Lalo, I want to thank you for your time. It’s been my
sincerest pleasure interviewing you this evening. Keep writing! The
work you do is fantastic. You’ve got a lot of fans out there
including me. Best wishes on a successful tour.
LS: Well thank you very much for this interview. I really enjoyed it
because your questions were very intelligent.
SK: Thank you very much. I appreciate that.
LS: Best of luck to you.
AICN would like to express our deepest gratitude to Mr. Schifrin for his time, and...as always...to ScoreKeeper for his exceptional efforts.
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+ Expand All
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The Godfather?
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Oops...The Godfather films (and The Outsiders)?
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Jun 18, 2006 11:31:59 AM CDT
ScoreKeeper is a reason this site needs a true editor
by dirtyratbastard
Carmine Coppola scored his son's Godfather Movies, and Bill Lee scored the first five Spike Lee movies.
So, that being said, this site not only needs competent editors, it also needs an ombudsman. -
I have to say that the rest of the interview was more than competent, and in fact really took a true view into the mind of a good composer. When I think of Lalo Schifrin, I think less of Mission:Impossible and more for the Dirty Harry scores, of which the opening of Magnum Force has to be the greatest. He talks about using bass lines, which I think should be utilized again. It's what makes a cool movie that much cooler, or just cool to begin with. Music sets the tone for any movie, and it seems to me that Schifrin has been all about taking films that one step further.
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at least that's what's printed on my CD (with the exception of Connie's Wedding which is credited to Carmine).
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play it in the car all the time.
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From IMDB:
The Godfather (1972) (additional music: mall wedding sequence)
The Godfather: Part II (1974) (composer: additional music) (conductor)
The Godfather: Part III (1990) (conductor) (lyricist) (music arranger) -
The thing is, that Carmine did indeed compose for the Godfather films, and he did conduct the orchestra in some respects. Nino Rota is responsible for the beautiful "Il Padrino" theme, extended into the words "sung" by Anthony Corleone in Godfather III
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Nino Rota did indeed compose all of Godfather I, however Carmine Coppola teamed with Rota for Godfather II, handling most of the orchestral composing, but since Rota died in 1979, Carmine did ALL the composing and conducting for Godfather III, dying one year later in 1991. God, I love the internet. Research, people...it is what journalism is based on (unfortunately not so much these days)
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...was when Lalo received an honorary degree from RI School of Design. After the ceremony, the organist played the theme as a couple thousand of us were walking out. Most cool after a stuffy graduation exercise.
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I think that's why it says "...that I recall," sounds like a top of the mind thing to me.
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wow that really sucks. if i were him i'd be pissed beyond belief
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Probably stands as the best opener I've seen in a movie. Great theme to hum to as well. Well, come to think of it, it's the second best. Star Wars is still the greatest.
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JOEL: It was the third of Sep-tem-bah....the day you'll always re-mem-bah!
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Would read again.
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The Lalo stuff is a hoot, I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to do some music in his style, it was a total blast.
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which was one of the worst films of the 70's (next to the incredible melting man.) and not lalo's score in class of 1984,a much better film i might add.the main title "i am the future"composed by schiff and sung by alice cooper alone deserves praise.same goes for magnum force.
Do your homework before you decide to interview,or are you ain't so cool.. -
I have absolutely no idea what that last post means. I understood "70's". That was about it.
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actually it does, my previous post(you inquired about) was directed at scorekeeper for ommitting one of schiff's most underated score. (class of 1984)
but mentioned drivel like rolercoaster,which not only a shitty movie,but it wasn't lalo's best pieces.now you know,and knowing is half the battle.. -
except scorekeeper didn't bring up ROLLERCOASTER....Schifrin did.
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