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MinnesoTRex Witnesses Oliver Stone's WORLD TRADE CENTER


Merrick here...


MinnesoTRex wrote in with a look at an early screening of Oliver Stone's WORLD TRADE CENTER.

When considering his thoughts, it's important to remember that Minneso saw an incomplete version of the film. This edit is extremely early, apparently lacking completed effects work and...much more critically...a score (to be composed by Craig Armstrong, if I'm not mistaken).

None the less, this is an interesting look at the project's general orientation and sensibilities. Despite Minneso's misgivings, I'm deeply releived that Stone (apparently) didn't head in the direction many AICN readers were affraid he was headed. Essentially, it sounds like he didn't go off the deep end here (i.e. no conspiracies or general weirdness) -- for which he deserves a tip of the hat, even if the results are as lacking as Minneso says they are.


Here's Minneso...


Went to a "research screening" last night of the new Oliver Stone movie, World Trade Center. They indicated that the movie was not quite finished - image cleanup, effects, music still to come - but it looked relatively close.

I'm sorry to say, no matter what they do to it between now and then, I don't think they're gonna manage to turn it into an actual good movie.

It's strictly TV-movie-of-the-week level, this one. A bunch of decent actors flail around trying to say lines that no one should ever have to try to say with a straight face, and Oliver Stone directs the whole with a sort of plodding determination NOT to be provocative.

The real problem is the script. There were no credits attached to the movie yet, so I don't know if Stone wrote it himself, but the screenplay is just god-awful. Cliché after cliché, with some of the baldest exposition scenes ever, and one character after another basically having to speak out loud lines that are really more like comic book thought balloons.

EDITOR'S NOTE: The film is scripted by Andrea Berloff, based on the real life accounts of John McLoughlin and William Jimeno, who are portrayed here by Nicholas Cage and Michael Pena respectively.

Probably the most glaring combination of bad writing, bad acting, and bad directing comes from the inclusion of this sort of "rogue marine" character who tells his office, "For those of you who don't realize it, we're at war now," and then goes off to search through the rubble of the towers on his own. He's written and played like something out a Terminator movie (again, without the credits, I'm not sure of the actor), and frankly, he creeped me out.

He was, like, so much a part of a different movie that I fully expected him to pull out a machine gun at any moment and teach that pesky rubble a lesson, God Bless America! And then, in one scene, he meets up with another marine played by the guy who played the evil Ethan on Lost, and that just ups the whole weirdness factor by another degree.

An unfortunate casting choice.

In general, the actors were all okay.

The men came off slightly better than the women (Maria Bello seemed particularly lost), but really only Michael Pena managed to transcend the terrible writing. It was nice to see Frank Whaley on screen again, and Jay Hernandez has reigned in some of his loosi-goosiness from Hostel, but in general there just was nothing "real" here for any of the actors to work with.

Which brings me to my real big complaint about the movie.

Here we have one of the most dramatic and moving experiences in modern history, and the movie manages to take all of those real images and all of those real stories and produce exactly NO real moments of emotion or truth. I actually kind of liked the trailer and was expecting a sort of big emotional cathartic event. But the movie manages to suck all of the life out of the true story, and only ever manages to squeak together any moment of epiphany toward the end with a Nicholas Cage voiceover TELLING us what we're supposed to take away.

So - my advice is to check out the documentary footage, search your own memory, watch all of the memorial stuff that will be popping up as we approach the 5th anniversary. And if you really need to see a 9/11 movie, check out the infinitely superior United 93.

It isn't a case that World Trade Center arrived too soon; it's just a case where this ham-handed attempt (or perhaps any attempt) is never going to match the drama, emotion, heartbreak, or ultimate truth of the actual event.

MinnesoTRex


WORLD TRADE CENTER will be released August 9.


Readers Talkback
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  • June 16, 2006, 6:51 p.m. CST

    shitty review

    by blotter

  • June 16, 2006, 6:51 p.m. CST

    First?

    by NudeandAroused

    I would like to thank the academy...anyway, Stone is an Ok Director. He believes his own press releaese too much. Not really a hard worker.

  • June 16, 2006, 6:57 p.m. CST

    hope

    by casinoskunk

    i did not see United 93, and i probably wont see this. I believe that the point of going to see a movie, is to forget about things like 9/11. i am sure i would watch this in 10 years, but i really believe that this is too soon. as of right now, i am looking for movies that make me believe that there is still hope in the world. i would rather go see a shitty x-men movie than a gut wrenching 9/11 movie.

  • June 16, 2006, 6:58 p.m. CST

    did it show the CD squibs during the collapses

    by boast

    cuz we all know the WTC 1, 2 and 7 were brought down by controlled demolition. http://www.terrorize.dk/911/wtc2dem1/ - - - - - - http://www.terrorize.dk/911/wtc1dem1/ - - - - - - - http://www.terrorize.dk/911/wtc7dem1/

  • June 16, 2006, 7:03 p.m. CST

    Poorly written review.

    by Bobcat3000

    If only guest reviewers would stop attempting to be clever or eloquent.

  • June 16, 2006, 7:04 p.m. CST

    Sounds Like Stone Shot the Script

    by mrbeaks

    Which was terrible. Too bad.

  • June 16, 2006, 7:11 p.m. CST

    fuck

    by Turd Furgeson

    Here's to 7th.... If I wasn't arguing with my wife, I would have been first.... Dam woman!!!!! Fuck this movie. Hopefully Nick Cage's Toupee won't be as bas as his Ghost Rider one....h

  • June 16, 2006, 7:12 p.m. CST

    explains why building 7 fell?

    by mikep

    probably not. oh well, back to beer and sports.

  • June 16, 2006, 7:12 p.m. CST

    CD squibs

    by Bobcat3000

    You're right, Boast. The towers were brought down by controlled demolition. Of course, the gigantic airplanes that flew into the buildings may have had something to do with it as well.

  • June 16, 2006, 7:21 p.m. CST

    Oliver Stone

    by VanLingoMungo

    Is bat-shit crazy. Discuss.

  • June 16, 2006, 7:22 p.m. CST

    Controlled demolition

    by BrunoTheDog

    So "they" setup the buildings for a controlled demolition despite the fact that they were constantly full of people and security. This must be on top of the missile launchers that were added to the planes, and the missile that was fired at the Pentagon (it's wasn't a plane!!!). I love this shit.

  • June 16, 2006, 7:23 p.m. CST

    idiot

    by Koyaanisqatsi

    if you're going to post a link don't be a dumbass and link to something that most of this site's readership can't read! what the fuck is up with posting to that danish bullshit?

  • June 16, 2006, 7:26 p.m. CST

    im just sayin

    by Turd Furgeson

    how can a big goddam plane bring down a building 100+ stories high but barely puts a dent into a side wall of the pentagon and doesn't even breach the inner structure... Just raises your curiosity......

  • June 16, 2006, 7:30 p.m. CST

    No, it raises your curiosity

    by VanLingoMungo

    I like movies a whole lot, but the tin-foil hat conversation that's about to happen in this talkback is the real gravy. Let it begin with Turd Furgeson and Mikep, and end, oh, in about a hundred posts, with somebody calling W a Nazi. Make it good people.

  • June 16, 2006, 7:34 p.m. CST

    Please keep all 9/11 essays under 300 words

    by VanLingoMungo

    Spelling and grammar will count.

  • June 16, 2006, 7:38 p.m. CST

    VanLingoMungo

    by Turd Furgeson

    W is not a Nazi, he has too many people around him controlling his opinions for him to be a Nazi... I am also not saying this thing was some vast conspiracy like some of these douche bags will... I was brought up to question authority and not to take anything at face value because everything, all issues, have multiple sides... I'm just saying that this may be like Transformers..... More than meets the eye....

  • June 16, 2006, 7:40 p.m. CST

    Bruckheimer should have done it

    by BitterMan23

    per the Onion's story, the week after 9-11: "Life Turns Into Bad Jerry Bruckheimer Movie"

  • June 16, 2006, 7:40 p.m. CST

    even the firemen were conspiracy buffs.

    by mikep

    http://www.bcrevolution.ca/bombs.htm check out where they talk about "boom-boom-boom"... hopefully the stone movie will set 'em straight. http://www.bcrevolution.ca/Video/discussion%20in%20firehouse2.WMV

  • June 16, 2006, 7:43 p.m. CST

    There's no chance in hell I'll watch this movie; still,

    by Drunken Rage

    where's the OKC movie? There's much more evidence of a conspiracy there than there is with any of this 9/11 stuff.

  • June 16, 2006, 7:44 p.m. CST

    Reason

    by Bobcat3000

    http://tinyurl.com/a4ght

  • June 16, 2006, 7:45 p.m. CST

    not a nicolas cage or oliver stone fan but...

    by quadrupletree

    I think this looks good. I'll prolly check this one out.

  • June 16, 2006, 7:46 p.m. CST

    by RogersPop75

    u guys are funny. i love these fuckin' talkbacks.

  • June 16, 2006, 7:51 p.m. CST

    i will see it, and i was there first hand

    by JeanLuc Dickhard

    i swear to god i am not kidding i was the first person pulled out on an ambulence i was getting my wounds tended to as the plane hit the second tower.... i used to be the youngest windowcleaner there ...i was 26 i have one hell of a story and im lucky im here today ... i have pics if i could post em here i would........

  • June 16, 2006, 7:59 p.m. CST

    I'll see it oh and btw you conspiracy idiots...

    by andrew coleman

    Start watching sports or something I mean seriously stop wasting your fucking time. Why did the towers fall um because the fuel in planes when lit can melt almost anything. Remember Die Hard 2 that plane went kaboooom!!! Idiots.

  • June 16, 2006, 8:04 p.m. CST

    All conspiracy idiots must do is make you doubt reality

    by Mahaloth

    Watch Penn & Teller's Bullshit episode on conspiracies.

  • June 16, 2006, 8:06 p.m. CST

    Die Hard 2?

    by barryap

    The Die Hard comparison proves beyond a doubt there was no conspiracy. Seriously though, conspiracy nuts, in general, don't lead interesting lives so they have to make shit up.

  • June 16, 2006, 8:07 p.m. CST

    Of course they were demolished

    by performingmonkey

    I refuse to believe they would have collapsed at freefall speed if it was just this 'pancake' effect. Particularly WTC7 - either the building was built like a piece of shit or it was destroyed with TNT. Fires could NOT have brought it down like that at freefall speed. Before that no steel building had collapsed through fire anyhow. Add to that the fact that various large explosions were going off inside the towers before collapse (mics picked these up, eyewitnesses reported them) you've gotta wonder. Plus, the molten steel at ground zero for weeks after 9/11 - that would be impossible unless the steel HAD been melted, which it could have been by the fire inside the towers. The molten steel could have just been a bullshit story though.

  • June 16, 2006, 8:11 p.m. CST

    Why controlled demolition makes no sense

    by Gwai Lo

    They don't start controlled demolition at the top of a tall building. The reason the other buildings got destroyed is because there was 100 stories of rubble falling from the sky. You can solve the riddle of the mysteriously unharmed Pentagon with Jenga blocks. Build the tallest Jenga tower you can and throw a tennis ball at it, you'll notice it falls over. Now make one that is only one block high and throw the tennis ball at it. JENGA!

  • June 16, 2006, 8:16 p.m. CST

    My Conspiracy Theory on Conspiracy Theorists...

    by Flim Springfield

    By making the Bush administration the bad guy of a RIDICULOUS plot, it distracts people from the administration's actual complicity: What did they know, and could more have been done to prevent it? But reasonable questions are drowned out by these idiots going on about "controlled demolition" and "drone planes" etc. Whether intentional or just ignorant, they're HELPING Bush.

  • June 16, 2006, 8:24 p.m. CST

    Homewrecker

    by VanLingoMungo

    I knew Louis Farrakhan was a talkbacker. 32 posts until we got to the Jews. I'm so disappointed in you guys.

  • June 16, 2006, 8:28 p.m. CST

    Homewrecker...

    by OriginalThinker

    Ignorance is bliss for you huh?

  • June 16, 2006, 8:30 p.m. CST

    I was not directly affected nor was anyone I knew by it

    by beastie

    so I am in no position to say "too early" or anything. However, I think the only movie Stone has done in the past 15 years that really got my attention, was U-Turn. It was the only one that didn't look like he was trying too hard to either be controversial or the complete opposite. It was a simple story that was interestingly directed and wonderfully acted. I don't plan on seeing this, as there are more interesting films that I keep missing. Shitty review but at least it wasn't a plant.

  • June 16, 2006, 8:39 p.m. CST

    Oliver Stone is a jackass

    by Rainbow Cotton

    His only good movie was U-Turn. He needs to follow Tarantino's advice and make movies, not films! He is horrible at making films.

  • June 16, 2006, 8:46 p.m. CST

    http://tinyurl.com/fevne

    by JohnGalt06

    "Research screenings"? It's that what we're calling them now? I remember when they were good old fashioned test screenings. I am not surprised to discover this movie may be sub-par. A bad movie from the man who gave us "U-Turn", "Natural Born Killers" and "Alexander"? Say it isn't so...

  • June 16, 2006, 8:57 p.m. CST

    It's a conspiracy man!

    by glodene

    Those buildings were destroyed because they were concealing the remains of Jimmy Hoffa and JFK's missing brain. - CHARIOTS OF THE GODS MAN! Al Queda wuz set-up as the fallguys. That's why the CIA planted all that antrax shit in those terrorist apts as if they were going to survive their 911 attacks and then go and rent some cessnas' and spray anthrax all over the place, but it blew up in the CIA faces when it wuz discovered that the anthrax was domestically made. So i guess everybody better pullout their tin foil hats and watch for the skies - CHARIOTS OF THE GODS MAN! CHARIOTS OF THE GODS MAN! IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY CONCOCTED BY THE MAN TO KEEP US ALL DOWN BY ENSLAVING US WITH OUR INSATIABLE NEED TO RATIONALIZE AND DENY THE OBVIOUS BY CONTINUING TO PLAY THE UNQUESTIONING SYCHOPHANT. STOP THE MADNESS PEOPLE! WAKE UP AND REALIZE THAT THE MAN IS PULLING EVERYBODYS' STRINGS VIA THE SIMPLE LIFE! IF YOU LOOK AND LISTEN TO IT CLOSELY YOU CAN DETECT A MONOTONOUS DRONING VOICE CONSTANTLY WHISPERING VOTE JEB BUSH IN 2008 AND RECEIVE A COMPLIMENTARY BRITNEY SPEARS COMEBACK CD FOR YOUR KIND PATRONAGE. DON'T GIVE IN! FIGHT THE CONSPIRACY! DON THE TIN FOIL HATS, IT'S OUR ONLY SALVATION! P.S. BUY STOCK IN ALUMINUM.

  • June 16, 2006, 9:16 p.m. CST

    Conspiracy

    by alienindisguise

    Call me insensitive, but any time this event comes up, I can think of nothing but it's possible orchestration by our own government. Check out www.loosechange911.com...I hope that's right, it's been a while since I've been to the site but the evidence they have is pretty startling because it makes sense. Controlled demolition...check. Firemen reported seeing out of the ordinary devices every so many floors on routine drills and were told to do nothing about it. As far as a plane hitting the Pentagon...look at a picture of the hole. A huge plane slams into the side of a building yet the windows right beside the hole are intact? Right. The hole is more in tune with that left by a missle, but, hey, the info is out there for the taking and at the end of the day, a film about all this would be far more compelling that anything Stone could produce.

  • June 16, 2006, 9:59 p.m. CST

    We get it Homewrecker

    by VanLingoMungo

    God good, dancing Jews bad. We got the memo. Duly noted. You're opinion is well represented.

  • June 16, 2006, 10:07 p.m. CST

    I'M SUPRISED

    by THE KNIGHT

    Some ignorant cunt hasn't said too soon yet -_-

  • June 16, 2006, 10:11 p.m. CST

    where did this screening take place???

    by The guy

    What city did this test screening take place in?

  • June 16, 2006, 10:26 p.m. CST

    PLANT!

    by zacdilone

  • June 16, 2006, 10:28 p.m. CST

    aliendisguise, homewrecker, & the conspiracy crew...

    by RetroActive

    Are you guys demolition experts? Engineers? Crash site investigators? Maybe steel construction & reinforced integrity chemists? I doubt it. And I also doubt that all of the web sites and videos you've seen have been approved by independents in those fields, either. And nobody on those websites has an agenda, I'm sure. The funniest part is, people are rallying around the model of unscrupulous behavior, Mr. Charlie Sheen for honest answers...a guy whose done more lines of blow off of more rented hard bodies than any Playboy Mansion regular could ever dream of competing with. If you spent half of the time you've wasted working toward a solid cause instead of marketing this utter crap, you might be worth more than a nickel and treated with some respect. Until then, I'll continue to print out your short sighted commentaries for the lining in the birdcage.

  • June 16, 2006, 10:30 p.m. CST

    Real questions, not dumb theories

    by HybridEB

    http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646 I believe that the government had a part in carrying out the attacks. But unfortunately a plane did crash into the Pentagon, there were no missile pods, cell phones really did work from those planes, Jews didn't do it, the mass media isn't in on it, etc. As for the demolitions, the final NIST report on WTC 7 isn't even out yet. So for everyone who thinks the demolition ideas are stupid, that's how long it

  • June 16, 2006, 10:49 p.m. CST

    Demolition

    by RetroActive

    It's obvious that you guys don't know anything about how demolitions work. The environment is controlled and needs to be stable. Physics, timing, and a whole slew of mathematical factors need to be considered. Also, charges would need to be placed not only at the corners and the base, but in plain view of people working in the building in the middle of the floor where additional suports that run through the center of the building would be. Show me three demolition experts' takes on the towers collapsing along with building #7 and maybe I'll think about it. Also, find a vacant building where a plane with thousands of pounds of jet fuel is exploded upon impact and allowed to burn at its natural temperature under those conditions and find out at what temperature the steel bearings would melt. Then take the exact design of the WTC towers and how they'd react to the tons that were improperly plaed upon them as the floors collapsed at the angle they collapsed. And, then go show your book all of the surviving family members of the vitims, their children, and loved ones. Oh, and let the troops in Iraq know so they can all pack up and come home. Because, after all...this changes everything...and we can all raid Congress together! Imbeciles.

  • June 16, 2006, 10:54 p.m. CST

    Documenting the Event

    by RetroActive

    They wouldn't need to know. They were spies. Israeli moles have been found in our govt. before, and vice versa. A spy's job is to document everything. Why would 9/11 be any different? They simply stated that their job was to document the event. If they were talking about copying files, the language would have been the same, silly. I know simplicity can come off a bit complicated for simpletons, but your little tea party's a few dolls short.

  • June 16, 2006, 11:35 p.m. CST

    Homewrecker, we understand your opinion

    by VanLingoMungo

    Jews caused 9/11. Great. Wonderful. You're opinion is not exactly a secret. That's fine. Fuck the Jews says you, whatever says us. We got it. No need to post anything else. We get the message.

  • June 16, 2006, 11:55 p.m. CST

    Spare me the "too soon" bullshit.

    by Novaman5000

    And while you're at it, drop the "hollywood is full of monsters for exploiting this tragedy" bullshit as well. It happened 5 years ago. It fucking sucks but come on. To pretend as if it didn't happen, to walk around the event as if on eggshells... that'd be the bigger fucking tragedy. Embrace the fact that this thing changed the world as we know it.

  • June 16, 2006, 11:58 p.m. CST

    Oh, and homewrecker...

    by Novaman5000

    I'm not a Jew and I still think you're an asshole.

  • June 17, 2006, 12:24 a.m. CST

    The screening took place at...

    by LaudnerGomez

    The AMC Southdale Theater, in Edina, MN. On 6/15/06. ---- The crowd got their invites while waiting to see TOKYO DRIFT, so maybe that's why the review was so terribly written.

  • June 17, 2006, 12:31 a.m. CST

    "Its' too soon" == bullshit.

    by SG7

    They were making WW2 movies DURING WW2. What a bunch of fucking pansies. Oh, and it wasn't the jews, it was the zetans from zeta-2 reticuli. Fucking beam-ship jockys casuing trouble again.

  • June 17, 2006, 12:47 a.m. CST

    Homewrecker....

    by The Ender

    I understand the Theory of the Zionists best interests being carried out by the after effects, i.e. ass kicking of Arabs worldwide, of 911. But you just sound like a racist asshole, who uses this kind of shit to shoot your mouth of on some anti jewish bullshit. It's not worth even GOING INTO the depths of possible conspiracy on this talkback, because you are not going to get anywhere with it! The thing is, there is conspiracy theory, and then there is conspiracy fact. Pre 911, you all may recall there was an earlier attempt to demolish the WTC in the early 90's. If you all look up some shit on that, you'd probably understand why it is easier to understand some of the information in documentaries like loose change 2nd edition (not a perfect documentary, but a good one). Like the fact that the suspect in the first WTC bombing gave a very detailed account of the FBI providing him with the materials to do it, and then I believe the New York Times actually ran a page quoting someone from the FBI actually admitting that it was true. It's been awhile since I have researched that, but it is disturbing. PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND FUCK IGNORANT RACISM!

  • June 17, 2006, 12:52 a.m. CST

    it all began quietly in 1985....

    by thebearovingian

    in a Florida retirement community. A group of seniors watch 'Cocoon' and believe they have been given an ultimatum by the aliens from the movie: create a global Islamic fundamentalist terror ring or grow old and die. They chose youth and now we have Al-Qaeda.

  • June 17, 2006, 1:04 a.m. CST

    For all you "demolition " morons out there...

    by DoctorWho?

    who feel the buildings were brought down by explosives... search ot the NOVA episode on PBS titled "Why The Towers Fell". Experts (architects, scientists etc.) break it down structurally. JETFUEL YOU IDIOTS! That stuff burned at an ASTONISHING heat, and melted even THAT super reinforced steel structure. Come back to earth.

  • June 17, 2006, 1:14 a.m. CST

    Why it wasn't a Jewish conspiracy.

    by Shan

    One of the first, if not the first person killed during the whole of 9/11 was a 31 year old former Israeli commando (from a counter-terrorism unit no less) and internet multi-billionaire (Akamai co-founder) on Flight 11. If there was a big Zionist conspiracy, you'd think at the very least they would have told him at least not to fly, right? So can we stop it with these theories, they're very offensive. Also, I'm not Jewish and I think you're etc etc etc.

  • June 17, 2006, 1:38 a.m. CST

    Personally, I blame the Protestants

    by VanLingoMungo

    No reformation, no America. Screw the Jews, it's Martin Luther's fault.

  • June 17, 2006, 2:29 a.m. CST

    I hate Republicans

    by MaryTylerMorbid

    Yes, I do.

  • June 17, 2006, 2:41 a.m. CST

    Republicans hate you too

    by VanLingoMungo

    So there you go.

  • June 17, 2006, 3:11 a.m. CST

    I realized yesterday that my kids didn't recall 9/11...

    by Big Bad Clone

    they were just too young at the time. So, using some actual video footage and my recollection of the events, I talked to them about it. I showed nothing gory, I didn't get into all the background, I just presented the facts of that day. Let me just say that alone packs a huge walop. So how could Stone actually fuck this up? United 93 didn't have to give wacky exposition and look how effective it was. With this subject, there is no need to explain shit outside of what went down.

  • June 17, 2006, 3:29 a.m. CST

    Reasons to doubt the official story?

    by meccabilly

    HybridEB linked to: http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646 I kinda think people who beleive the conspiracy stuff are, you know... a bit tin-foil-hat-time. But I'm open minded, I'm willing to be proven wrong, so I went and had a look. So anyway, there are 40 reasons listed (sorry if this is a bit of a derailment of the thread): 1) AWOL Chain of Command - Conspiracy? Incompetence more likely... 2) Air Defense Failures - Come on guys.. it was a confusing time - United 93 (the film) gives a good impression of the pressure people were under. 3) Pentagon Strike - as above with the military reaction and as far as the "difficult aerobatic maneuver" goes, the guy TURNED THE PLANE - he didnt make it loop-the-loop or fly upside down under a bridge. 4) Wargames - "There is evidence that the wargames created confusion as to whether the unfolding events were "real world or exercise."" What? Please explain your logic there. Also, what evidence? 5) Flight 93 - "Was Flight 93 shot down?" No - the nearest military planes were 100 miles away. Unless they were taken out by those super secret invisible planes they made using alien technology from Area 51. 6) Did cell phones work at 30,000 feet in 2001? Yes 7) Demolition Hypothesis "What caused the collapse of a third skyscraper, WTC 7," - I'll leave this for the report... 8) What did officials know? How did they know it? They were warned about hijacks - they ignored the warnings becuase they were incompetent. 9-11 are boring so i will ignore them ;) 12 - somthing about alleged inconsistencies about hijacker identities... not ver interesting... 13) Who Is Osama Bin Ladin? Are you kidding me? The CIA made him up or something? ridiculous... 14) All the Signs of a Systematic 9/11 Cover-up. "All the signs" of a crazy conspiracy nut. 15) Poisoning New York - The incompetence hypothosis again. 16) Disposing of the Crime Scene - to hide what? the explosives? 17) Anthrax - off topic a bit arnt we? Not enough information here to make conclusions... 18) The Stonewall - to hide incompetence not conspiracy 19) A Record of Official Lies - see above 20-23) boring again... he should liven up his writing... 24) NIST Omissions - aparently the computer models didnt include explosives in thier calculations.. neither did they include giant 40ft clowns or invading aliens. 25) Radio Silence - incompetence.. 26) The Legal Catch-22 - we go nowhere with this... 27) Saudi Connections - corruption not conspiracy 28) Media Blackout of Prominent Doubters - covering up incompetence again... not conspiracy 29)-31) - yes yes, bushco loves war... 32) Attacking the Constitution - still no evidence of conspiracy - just corruption 33-36) see 32 37) The "Little Game" "Why was the WTC privatized just before its destruction?" A little bit of crazy thrown in - who knows the answer to this? who cares? 38) "Al-CIA-da?" I see what you've done there.. very clever - So Osama was just helping out his mates in the CIA. You see, the CIA hates the pentagon building, it's ugly you see. They want a new shiney glass building in its palce so they tried to get rid off the old one. 39) Historical Precedents for "Synthetic Terror" - Ahh, how about historical precedents for crazy-ass-conspiracy-nut-tin-foil-hat-mother-f***ers... 40) Secret Government - How would you know? Its secret.... REASON NUMBER 41... 41???? This was "THE TOP 40" not "THE TOP 40 + 1" - but anyway.. He finishes up...""But an inside job would involve thousands of people! How could they keep a secret?" Counter-arguments, red herrings, speculations and false information." Well that clears it up for me! Cheers 911truth.org for showing me the light. The crazy light, covered in tin foil, to keep out the light bulb aliens!

  • June 17, 2006, 3:47 a.m. CST

    Cheese with extra cheese on the side!

    by shonin

    The trailer sucked big time, I thought it WAS a TV movie. What's the betting that a dog will run out of falling building holding a crying baby in it's mouth? Ok that's nuts but this movie looks to be the ultimate cheese fest! Any fucking excuse for Hollywood to turn on the cheese and they lap it up! We all know people died, it was a disaster, but don't insult the dead and the living by making us believe it was a big American hero story, full of profound speeches and love for fellow man. Horse shit! Watch a documentary if you really care about what happened.

  • June 17, 2006, 6:36 a.m. CST

    Meh...

    by moviemaniac-7

    Not too excited to see a movie that is about how 'Great The USA Is'. I, for one, want Stone to get deeper into this stuff. No, I don't believe all the stuff that the conspiracy nuts say, but one thing is sure: There was some serious shit going on on that day and the whole truth has still to be uncovered.

  • June 17, 2006, 6:55 a.m. CST

    The lords of the dollar:

    by MrNelson

    The Two Towers

  • June 17, 2006, 8:11 a.m. CST

    Retroactive&DoctorWho?

    by alienindisguise

    Explain the Pentagon hole, Retroactive and for Doctor Who?...I watched that documentary "Why the Towers Fell" and jet fuel would not have been evenly dispersed to cause the buildings to fall the way they did and in a video clip, an obvious smaller explosion shoots out a window just as the tower begins to fall,but you can all believe what you like or what the government force feeds you...it's your choice.

  • June 17, 2006, 8:43 a.m. CST

    Watch this video, keep an open mind.

    by Bean_

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=Son0BWduQx4&search=controlled%20demolition |||| The guy is an MIT engineer. Just watch.

  • June 17, 2006, 8:45 a.m. CST

    Oh and it's not "Loose Change", forget that video.

    by Bean_

  • June 17, 2006, 9:59 a.m. CST

    Why shouldn't "the Jews" exploit the victims of 09/11?

    by FluffyUnbound

    That cocksucker Bush exploits them every day. OK, not so much anymore, since shame seems to have tempered even that cunt's willingness to wave the bloody flag.

  • June 17, 2006, 10:26 a.m. CST

    National opinion polls

    by HybridEB

    In a recent Zogby poll, it was shown that 42% of America thinks that the government and 9/11 Commission are covering up what really happened. 44% think Bush exploited 9/11 attacks. And 45% want a new investigation. Must be a lot of crazy people out there. (sarcasm)

  • June 17, 2006, 10:40 a.m. CST

    Doctorwho? Shows how much...

    by The Ender

    You know about the burning temperature of Jet Fuel. Or the fact that there are hundreds of firefighters on tapes reporting multiple explosiong going off inside the building. Or the fact that even FEMA wasn't even allowed in to investigate the scene after the buildings collapsed. Instead the metal was all Illegally shipped off to China. A crime scene, stripped and sent off to a foreign country. Fantastic! No need to ask questions or anything...... HybridEB, CNN even had a poll I think over a year ago where 90% of the polltakers said they believe there was government involvemet in 911. They must all be CRAZY Half wits....

  • June 17, 2006, 10:59 a.m. CST

    Internet Opinion Polls

    by HybridEB

    CNN had two online votes on their website. One was a very long time ago, in association with an Anderson Cooper segment. The other was an Entertainment Tonight segment. While both had about 90% believing the government did 9/11, it's that high because conspiracy theorist websites linked to it telling everyone to vote. Internet polls are never accurate at all.

  • June 17, 2006, 11:04 a.m. CST

    interesting point, VanLingoMungo...

    by tango fett

    but Lutherans aren't protestants. just sayin' is all.

  • June 17, 2006, 12:08 p.m. CST

    Some Lutherans consider themselves Protestants

    by VanLingoMungo

    And some don't. But the point about Martin Luther was correct any way you look at it. Luter = Reformation. Why am I reinforcing a point I made to be sarcastic? Because I'm bored, that's why.

  • June 17, 2006, 12:13 p.m. CST

    "With the 9-11 attacks coming up..."

    by BitterMan23

    "wait, you knew about 9-11?" "Yes. next?"

  • June 17, 2006, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Conspiracy theorists...

    by Kung Fu Hustler

    ...have failed utterly at life. They cannot accept this failure and thus look to outside influences to help explain it. Not one single CT has ever produced a shred of evidence, from a credible source, to prove their CT. And, this is the best part, all the credible evidence for the truth is automatically discredited as being part of the conspiracy. Fuck every single one of you.

  • June 17, 2006, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Well said Kung Fu Hustler!!!

    by maximusdecimus

    Could we have an intelligent talkback about this movie, instead of this fucking bullshit. thank you.

  • June 17, 2006, 2:14 p.m. CST

    screwloosechange.blogspot.com

    by Kung Fu Hustler

    Excellent debunking of not only Loose Change, but other CT's and the "9/11 Scholars for Truth." They say it much better than I can.

  • June 17, 2006, 3:09 p.m. CST

    if the US government was behind the 9/11attacks...

    by newc0253

    ... why couldn't they at least arrange to find evidence of WMDs in Iraq? you'd think after concocting the biggest terrorist attacks in history, faking WMDs would be small change.

  • June 17, 2006, 3:23 p.m. CST

    by WS

    An Oliver Stone movie without conspiracies or general weirdness? What's the fucking point? Why not let Stone make his batshit conspiracy version of 9/11? It would certainly be helpful to compare Stone's version with United 93 (the truth is probably somewhere in the middle). Anybody praising Stone for making a standard issue Hollywood drama is basically praising his complete and total destruction as a film-maker and an artist, (i.e. his castration at the hands of the Hollywood whore machine). Some of you, no doubt, like that idea, but some of you are middlebrow morons.

  • June 17, 2006, 3:27 p.m. CST

    "

    by theBigE

  • June 17, 2006, 3:28 p.m. CST

    ARRGGH!

    by theBigE

    You guys need an edit function on Talkback. How about Preview before Posting?

  • June 17, 2006, 3:29 p.m. CST

    "People denying the existence of robots...

    by theBigE

    might be robots themselves."

  • June 17, 2006, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Alienindisguise andThe Ender...

    by DoctorWho?

    Man that is classic. You know...if seen that video about a million time os that smaller "explosion" just as the towers begin to pancake. Don't you think that could be caused by a million different combination of things? Pyre physics man... you have an inferno of burning metal caused by a fire ball of jet fuel...when the floors begin to pancake, a rush of oxygen ,fuels the blast of flame you see. Ah, whatever. I know something so simple won't convince you. To you guys, only the most over-complicated,impossibly synchronized sinister plots are feasible. Oh and as far as "explaining the pentagon hole"...YOU'RE the one who needs to explain. I'm not the one with thoery from left field. I will say this though. SCIENCE MAGAZINE did an "autopsy" of that crash too. The nose hit first and carried thru the building. The wings of course broke off upon impact with the Pentagon walls...so in essence, you had a small missle that burrowed in somewhat far. I KNOW...TOO SIMPLE. Instead they shipped the wreckage over to CHINA????????? Um...ok...sure.

  • June 17, 2006, 3:37 p.m. CST

    sorry about the typos

    by DoctorWho?

  • June 17, 2006, 3:50 p.m. CST

    Homewrecker...are you for real???

    by DoctorWho?

    I'm thinking your not. But if you are...in response to your quoting your myhthical mossad agent "Our purpose was to document the event"...Um... don't you think they could have just stayed home and WATCHED IT ON THE TELEVISION. Jesus, only the most instant,widely covered and replayed event in the history of the wotld. Are these five guys stupid driving around stupid enough to think they're gonna do a better job than say...oh EVERY MEDIA OUTLET ON THE PLANET?

  • June 17, 2006, 4:18 p.m. CST

    Every country has problems with terrorists now ...

    by godhatesyou

    Its not just an American thing.Making a film about it just shows how much impact it did, and how scared you are........the terrorists want to make you scared.

  • June 17, 2006, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Well, if it's on the internet it MUST be true!

    by DoctorWho?

    How thorough of you to "Google" it.

  • June 17, 2006, 5:56 p.m. CST

    Wasn't most of the dancing on 9/11 done by Palestinians

    by bigdickmcgee

    In New Jersey and Ramallah? Asshole.

  • June 17, 2006, 6:01 p.m. CST

    Your story was manufactured by Hizbollah....

    by bigdickmcgee

    You clearly watch a lot of al Jezeera. We know what you are, asshole.

  • June 17, 2006, 7:08 p.m. CST

    world trade center

    by nemesisnyc

    guys you really should do research before you open your mouth,7 world trade center was full of disel fuel due to con Edison being located in the build and also a lot of debris from the trade center penetrated through the building

  • June 17, 2006, 7:09 p.m. CST

    Don't forget "hate monger too Bigdickmcgee

    by DoctorWho?

    Though, asshole does pretty much sum it up.

  • June 17, 2006, 7:41 p.m. CST

    Looks cool

    by Reverendz

    It might be ok

  • June 17, 2006, 8:19 p.m. CST

    I'd love to....

    by UncleEthan

    ...believe that there was something larger and more sinister than a few Mujh and a grudge that resulted in the actual logistics of 9/11...I just have a hard time believing that an administration/regime as ignorant, out of touch, and basically incompetent as this could manage something on that scale...and manage to keep it quiet...That said Bush not only hates black people...his Dad killed Kennedy and skull fucked the exit wound.

  • June 17, 2006, 8:36 p.m. CST

    Oh really?

    by The Ender

  • June 17, 2006, 8:40 p.m. CST

    Doctorwho

    by The Ender

    Since you are so knowledgeable, I encourage you to come to the memorial site this september 11th. And argue with the Firefighters who were actually in the building. Tell them there were no explosions going off, and explain why WTC 7 Fell. While you are at it, give them a feasible explanation how fire brought down THREE buildings that day, and help them to understand that they are all conspiracy theorist fools. I'll be there, will you?

  • June 17, 2006, 8:41 p.m. CST

    BigDick....or is it just Dick?

    by UncleEthan

    Dude. While I don't believe in all of the conspiracy stuff either your particulr post using the Hizbollah and Al Jazeera not only sounds like the kind of trite ignorance heard in the 50's when everyone whipped out the word "commie" or "pinko" in an attempt at a straw dog fallacy that never made any of them sound that terribly bright. As for hatemongers...I agree. There are plenty of folks filled with hate in the middle east...there all also plenty filled with hate in middle America.

  • June 17, 2006, 8:42 p.m. CST

    Hate...in fact

    by UncleEthan

    ...is the REAL enemy. No matter who is spouting it. There are no answers in the gun, the grenade, or the guided missle for that matter. If you think there is you are fooling yourselves and sadly, ruining the world for those who will inherit it.

  • June 17, 2006, 8:54 p.m. CST

    UncleEthan

    by bigdickmcgee

    Dude. Get your head out of your bum. The "jews did 9/11" conspiracy theory was invented by Hizbollah and first broadcast on their Tv channel out of Lebanon. It was then picked up by al jezeera. Homewrecker is a frustrated jihadist who's "dancing mossad agents" talking points is straight from the terrorist propoganda machine.

  • June 17, 2006, 8:59 p.m. CST

    Ender...

    by DoctorWho?

    Ya, sounds like a great idea..." come to the memorial site this september 11th. And argue with the Firefighters..." Great plan. I'm sure they'll really appreciate that.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:08 p.m. CST

    Google it?

    by cagirl

    So if you can google it and find something it's true huh hitler jr? Google "Hanso Foundation" and you will get a shit load of infor on it...even though it is a made up company from an ABC TV show. As to your announcement about the "whole world knowing" who the fuck made you spokesman for the world captain ego? Go back to your National Alliance webchats and KKK robes, leave this site to the talk backers who are here to talk about MOVIES. ***Back on topic...I haven't been impressed by anything Stone has done for a long time so I probably wont bother seeing this one.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:08 p.m. CST

    Dick guy...

    by UncleEthan

    My head is not fixed anywhere near my bum or anyone elses at the moment. You missed, entirely, the point I was making. That point is that everyone who does not agree with you is not a Jihadist....seriously. That is the kind of either/or black/white stuff the real jihadist use to get kids to strap bombs to themselves. While the conspiracy folks might be trying to make some sense out of a senseless event (A quite normal human reaction) accusing them of being jihadist is wrong and further propigates the us vs. them mentality that will, from both sides, end up with us all dead.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:09 p.m. CST

    Why not

    by The Ender

    I'm sure they would appreciate just as much, people on message boards trying to make them into liars. I wasn't close enough to see everything that happened on September 11th. But they were. Fortunately for me, my Friend Tony was too lazy to bring 8 Ice Tea Brewers up into the Windows of The World Restaurant that day. Otherwise I wouldnt be here "arguing" (as much as I hate it) that there is some government involvement with what happened. I hate it just as much as anyone.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:14 p.m. CST

    Fire bringing down a building

    by cagirl

    I have seen this line repeated several times. "how can fire bring down a building?" People...it was JET FUEL. We are not talking about a duraflame log getting out of hand or trash can fire. JET FUEL burning for a long period of time at an extremly high temperature. I don't know why I bother...your tinfoil hats probably are blocking your logic genes anyway.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:14 p.m. CST

    DIE RUBBLE DIE!

    by wolack22

    this movie sounds terrible.... and thank god for that. I hope it teaches hollywood a lesson to stop making 9/11 movies now

  • June 17, 2006, 9:17 p.m. CST

    Read slowly, Uncle

    by bigdickmcgee

    I don't call him a jihadist because he "disagrees" with me. He's parroting Islamist propoganda. Think he came up with it on his own? This guy can't think original thoughts. He's reproducing shit VERBATUM from other sources. You can connect the dots and see where he gets his information, then make a good guess as to where he comes from ideologically. And what the fuck are you doing defending his feelings anyway, you wishy washy multi-culti liberal? Some guy says Jews did 9/11, and I can't draw an inference from that because it's "stereotyping"? Yeah, I'm stereotyping a guy who spends his life jewbating on the internet.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:22 p.m. CST

    if the US government was behind the 9/11attacks...

    by glodene

    Because they neglected to hire some of those rogue cops from the Los Angeles Rampart Division...They know how to plant some evidence...Just asked all those innocent drive-by shootin' gangbangers.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:24 p.m. CST

    Conspiracy theorists rule and so do those who deride

    by wolack22

    them...I'd be very afraid of the world i was living in if conspiracy nuts were shut up , and silenced... continue to shine on you whacky conspiracy nuts

  • June 17, 2006, 9:26 p.m. CST

    Oops!

    by glodene

    if the US government was behind the 9/11attacks... why couldn't they at least arrange to find evidence of WMDs in Iraq? you'd think after concocting the biggest terrorist attacks in history, faking WMDs would be small change. Because they neglected to hire some of those rogue cops from the Los Angeles Rampart Division...They know how to plant some evidence...Just asked all those innocent drive-by shootin' gangbangers

  • June 17, 2006, 9:28 p.m. CST

    Dick...fellow...Big....Mcgee....dude...

    by UncleEthan

    I'm far from wishy washy...although I could be labeled a multi-culturalist. Liberal....you better fucking belive it. None of those things make me stupid or deserving of being called names. Life isn't some John Wayne flick. Life is a nuanced thing. You want to see things in simple terms....it ain't like that. Do I think that Jews had anything to do with 9/11...hell no! In fact I think that the United States, Great Britain, and the USSR are absolutely responcible for the way things are right now. They mishandled the Jewish question before WW2 then alternately made it worse by over-compensating after WW2 and frankly, all of the big powers have made off like bandits pitting the Jews and the Palestinians against one another. I feel for the people of Isreal as much as I do for those living in the Gaza Strip. This continuing tradgey is a legacy of just the kind of clumsy manipulation that was exaserbated by a simplistic approach to the America vs. USSR conflicts. What I am saying is that by painting hard lines between enemy and friend nothing will ever get solved. Just like our generation is now reaping the sins sowed by the Cold War...the next generation will suffer for the stupidity and inhunanity involved in the current conflicts. That's all I'm saying. OK...they have propaganda...we have even more. I've got you. They say the Jews did 9/11 Bush said that Osama and Saddam were working together. Both statements are utter bullshit...so who is the bad guy?

  • June 17, 2006, 9:31 p.m. CST

    How the f*ck could a MISSLE have hit the Pentagon?

    by Triumph poops!

    To the conspiracy retards and whackos, HELLO!!! The notion of a missile hitting the Pentagon and working as a "cover-up" would ONLY work if you did it when their were absolutely, positively NO witnesses around...unfortunately in this case you literally had HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE -- Pentagon workers and civilians who were walking about or driving by at the time -- who ALL SAW A PASSENGER JET CRASH INTO THE BUILDING. So, what, you're gonna actually claim that SEVERAL HUNDRED civilians are ALL "in on it" and part of the set-up? Yeah, once again that little thing called FACTS reveals you conspiracy nuts for the retards you are.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:33 p.m. CST

    What is...

    by UncleEthan

    ...so wrong with peace, love, and understanding...oh yeah. You just don't feel like a man unless you have a boot on someone elses neck. That wasn't directed at anyone in particualr...but at humanity as a whole. Now the McGees, Cheeney's, and Bin-Ladens of the world have something in common. They can all hate me.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:37 p.m. CST

    UncleEthan

    by bigdickmcgee

    So I had you pegged right. Let me just say that moral equivalence (and I'm not aiming this at you personally) is the last respite of the moral degenerate.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:38 p.m. CST

    my bad...

    by UncleEthan

    Bin-laden and Cheney already have a greatdeal in common. They have both made thier careers and fortunes off of the pain and suffering of other human beings.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:41 p.m. CST

    I dig, McGee...my man...

    by UncleEthan

    That you are not aiming that at me. If comparing the bullshit from one side with the bullshit from another is moral equivalence...then Imust be one degenerated mother fucker. Seriously. I don't like it when Bin-Laden kills 3,000 and I don't like it when the current regime kills 30,000 and counting. Evil is evil...the only difference between and ugly girl sucking your dick and a pretty one sucking it is how fast you cum.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:45 p.m. CST

    McDick guy...

    by UncleEthan

    I might be a degenerate...but you know that analogy was a little funny. You know I did think of one thing...Bush and his crew are God fearing, moraly upright folks...right. Osama's boys are God fearing moraly upright folks...me...I've never killed anyone. Maybe the world needs more degenerates like myself out there. You know. Degenerates out there fucking. I figure it this way...more pussy-less bombs. It's a fact that sexually repressed people be they conservative christians or muslim fundementalist- act out violently. Dudes don't blow a nut then got out and machine-gun a village or blow up a coffe shop. Nope. They just smile alot.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:48 p.m. CST

    Make Love Not War!!!!!

    by UncleEthan

    Not a new concept...but whowouldn't rather fuck a pretty girl with deep brown eyes and curly hair than pull the pin on a grenade and throw it into a nursery school? I've got a cousin in Iraq I email with. I gurantee you he woul rather put his dick in his wife than a K-bar in the neck of some "towel head". Maybe we just need to get Bush laid.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:50 p.m. CST

    Bush. Dick. Laid?

    by bigdickmcgee

    You're onto something.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:51 p.m. CST

    I have a new Homeland Security Stretegy...

    by UncleEthan

    Get Osama his 30 vrigins...now! Everyone knows that virgins are a pain in the ass. He'll be so busy trying to hide from a bunch of clingy virgins...he won't have time to blow things up.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:52 p.m. CST

    Alexanders Music

    by The Ender

    Was the worst I have ever heard in the last few years. With the Budget they were working with, I think Oliver Stone could've at least tried to get someone capable to score the film. Alexander The Great was done no justice. Instead we got shitty music, an over dramatic Aneglina Jolie, and OHHHHHH GAY SEX. I can see the Producers and Execs giving each other High Fives and saying "See how tolerant we are? YAY!" Very stupid movie, that could have been great.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:54 p.m. CST

    See Dick Dude...

    by UncleEthan

    ...peace can be achieved. You and I were miles apart an hour ago. Now we are both thinking about pussy and all is right with the world. Pussy = Peace and prosperity.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:55 p.m. CST

    Amen!

    by bigdickmcgee

  • June 17, 2006, 9:57 p.m. CST

    ..A Viable Third Party...

    by UncleEthan

    The Pro-Pussy Party. Made up entirely of conservatives and liberals who all just like pussy. Forget moving to the center to get votes...move to the pussy. Everybody likes pussy. How could anyone argue with that. In a debate the Republican says: "I think we need to destroy the enviroment to meat our current energy needs..." The Democrat syas: "I don't really have a position on that I just want to be loved by everyone..." and our guy say: "PUSSSY! EVERYBODY NEEDS MORE PUSSY!" Now how is anyone gonna argue with that. We win by landslide...talk about a great mandate.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:59 p.m. CST

    You won't get the feminist vote.

    by bigdickmcgee

    Except maybe the soccer MILFS.

  • June 17, 2006, 9:59 p.m. CST

    Oh yeah...

    by UncleEthan

    Anchorite's homophobia reminded me...we can include gays but since we will be the Pussy Party they have to keep all of that penis shit under wraps. They can get married, have kids, whatever....just please...no public dick sucking. That would directly conflict with our all pussy all the time platform.

  • June 17, 2006, 10:01 p.m. CST

    ...forget the MILFS...

    by UncleEthan

    We'll split the gay vote because all of the lesbians will be 100% behind us. You know...I like to think there is a little lesbian in all of us...if there isn't...there should be.

  • June 17, 2006, 10:04 p.m. CST

    ....but seriously Dick...

    by UncleEthan

    ...I am as left wing as you can get..but this little Indian number I am trying to get with said the following about me this week: "Calling yourself a feminist is like a hunter trying to call themselves an enviromentalist."

  • June 17, 2006, 10:10 p.m. CST

    Hmmm, I think I get your whole left wing thing....

    by bigdickmcgee

    Trying to play sensitive to nail some snatch. I knew it was a ruse. I got a different angle. I play the "safe" conservative guy. 'No baby, I don't want to get in your pants. I want to get to know you as a person. You're likes, your dislikes, your thoughts about Dick and Bush.'

  • June 17, 2006, 10:15 p.m. CST

    ...See...Dude...

    by UncleEthan

    It's all a matter of approach. I don't really play the sensitive thing though. That's a misconception about the Left and pussy. I play the crusading warrior for peace. Don Quiote shit pulls alot of tail. As does the hedonist angle. I promice pleasure- not sensative songs about baby seals and prayer rugs. I'm for maximizing pleasure. That can best be achieved by reducing pain. Simple. Like I said, hoss...ALL PUSSY ALL THE TIME. By the way...I have plenty of thoughts about Bush...not so many about Dick. Seriously though....you see Clinton getting ass not Limbaugh. I mean as rich as Rush is you'd think his level of pootang would be higher.

  • June 17, 2006, 10:15 p.m. CST

    So about this movie...

    by floydtheater07

    I hope it's good. I am a big Oliver Stone fan (say what you want about his politics; the man is a skilled filmmaker), and I'm glad he is tackling this subject.

  • June 17, 2006, 10:17 p.m. CST

    I hope...my new friend...

    by UncleEthan

    That you are pulling Kennedy grade instead of Gingrich grade. Old Teddy might kill 'em...but he kills only the finest.

  • June 17, 2006, 10:19 p.m. CST

    ....That said...

    by UncleEthan

    Ifany of you kid out there at home are thinking of following old Uncle Ethan into left wing political activism remember a couple of things. Never fucking date Earth First and Anti-Globalization chicks. They are beast. Really. They have hair in places that would make Chewbacca blush. Find yourself a nice PETA girl. They are a little whacky, but they shave the pussy down to managble levels.

  • June 17, 2006, 10:23 p.m. CST

    ...I ain't making this up McGee...

    by UncleEthan

    You can Google it and probably still find something about it. I went to Vegas last year for an anti-war protest where these chicks "Shaved their bush in protest of Bush". Now I feel like we can all use less Bush...seriosuly.

  • June 17, 2006, 10:23 p.m. CST

    all I can say is....

    by bigdickmcgee

    Everybody can use a good Lewinsky now and then.

  • June 17, 2006, 10:25 p.m. CST

    ...Good night....one last shot from the degenerate...

    by UncleEthan

    My typing has degenerated to the point where I must seek rest. Remember my right wing and left wing brothers...and you too my beloved lesbian sisters...ALL PUSSY ALL THE TIME! We are one big Bush/Bin-laden Orgy FuckFest away from world peace.

  • June 17, 2006, 10:25 p.m. CST

    Homewrecker = Vulgarian

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    Careful homewrecker...the Zionist Mossad agents (that you love so bad) have ways of tracking every single keystroke you make on your computer. They will come for you. Sooner or later...

  • June 17, 2006, 10:26 p.m. CST

    "Shaved their bush in protest of Bush".

    by bigdickmcgee

    Don't go to the "cut your dick off in protest of Dick". It's overrated.

  • June 17, 2006, 10:29 p.m. CST

    ...ok...one last thing...

    by UncleEthan

    Kim Jong Il...we haven't forgotten you...keeping all of that prime Korean tail for yourself. We'll be dealing with you next.

  • June 17, 2006, 10:31 p.m. CST

    ...If that is what it takes to get rid of Cheney...

    by UncleEthan

    That motherfucker can stay right where he is. Besides if I cut off my penis there goes our burgeoning political movement. A new enuich has no need for ALL PUSSY ALL THE TIME!

  • June 17, 2006, 10:34 p.m. CST

    ...ok this is it...Gaius...

    by UncleEthan

    ...how the hell are you still talking about Mossad and conspiracies...were discussing PUSSY here man! Get with the program. Join the movement. Feel the fucking love!

  • June 17, 2006, 10:37 p.m. CST

    ...or love...

    by UncleEthan

    fucking....I don't know. I'm going to sleep. Those of you who remain consious...get to work on that platform. ALL PUSSY ALL THE TIME! Not that is a fucking catch phrase. screw that "Vote Pedro" bullshit.

  • June 17, 2006, 10:39 p.m. CST

    ..NOW THAT IS...

    by UncleEthan

    just a little typo before...point still valid. Good night and seriously...peace can be achieved...we just need more...you know...

  • June 17, 2006, 10:54 p.m. CST

    Will you conspiracy freaks STFU already!

    by Orionsangels

    There's no such thing as conspiracies. Only weird coincidences - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-aKDPsZ8ts&search=wizard%20of%20oz%20pink

  • June 17, 2006, 11:26 p.m. CST

    Pussy brings world peace?

    by cagirl

    Wow...you guys crack me up, thanks for lightening up what was a crappy racist tinged talk back for a while.

  • June 17, 2006, 11:30 p.m. CST

    Anchorite....dude

    by UncleEthan

    She's from India, dude. Even if she was "Native American"...most of them prefer to be called Indians also. Really. I'm not racist. I might be an asshole. But I'm not racist.

  • June 17, 2006, 11:52 p.m. CST

    Cagirl

    by glodene

    That is sooo HOT when you type pussy...Do it again.

  • June 18, 2006, 1:35 a.m. CST

    UncleEthan...allow me to retort.

    by DoctorWho?

    Bush NEVER said "Osama and Saddam were working together. Try and find THAT quote I dare say. Also, you equate both sides as the same,and therefore remove youself from hard choices. As if to say "I'm above it all". You're not above it all. None of us are above it all. Even if you haven't chosen sides, they've chosen the side for you. I mean, if you didn't have whatever mental template of the world shattered on September 11th, then...nothing's going to do it for you. One side goes to extreme(not always successful)measures to avoid collateral damage...the other embraces death for all infidels. One side feeds the world...the other embraces death for all infidels. Israel,(which you equate with Gaza) has a free press...All arab nations have govt. controlled press. Israel has a yearly gay pride parade...number of gay pride parades in arab countries?? ZERO. Issues like these may be "nuanced" as you say, but it certainly is obvious. You know, everything is not "black and white" in this world...but some things truly ARE that simple. Choose LIBERTY man 'cause everyhing you hold dear about human rights, decency, freedom to choose, to own property etc. would be wiped out if people with this ideology had their way. PEACE OUT BISH!

  • June 18, 2006, 1:49 a.m. CST

    Just for glodene...

    by cagirl

    P U S S Y !!!!!!!!

  • June 18, 2006, 1:50 a.m. CST

    We (the U.S.) aren't exactly blameless

    by glodene

    Before everyone start on this "They attacked us because we're infedels" shit, i suggests that you bone-up the U.S./C.I.A. Overseas Renditions Policies...Dispite popular belief, we (the U.S.) tends to fuck with people due to our imperialistic attitude...And don't go accusin' me of being anti-american or a Pinko Commie, i'm just sayin' that y'all gotta be a little more objective and see it from everyside and don't go trustin' our (supposed) free press, because of late, when it comes to covering what's happenin' in the Middle East our press has on many occasions come up lookin' a little yellow.

  • June 18, 2006, 1:52 a.m. CST

    Cagirl - Thank U Boo.

    by glodene

  • June 18, 2006, 2 a.m. CST

    cagirl and glodene...

    by DoctorWho?

    Get a room ;)

  • June 18, 2006, 3:35 a.m. CST

    Hahaha

    by Unaju

    "how can a big goddam plane bring down a building 100+ stories high but barely puts a dent into a side wall of the pentagon and doesn't even breach the inner structure... Just raises your curiosity......" Well, use that curiosity and go read up on the subject... and I don't mean "one of those" sites. You don't need a PhD to understand that TWC and Pentegon are two comepletly different buildings with different designs. Do you think the thickness of the walls are the same in those buildings? Use your head for a second and understand that it was the fire and ultimately it's own weight that brought down the towers. Barely puts a dent blah blah..... Come on.. don't speak out of your ass, please. (assuming that you're serious)

  • June 18, 2006, 4:44 a.m. CST

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4WOXh8hbkI&search=911

    by shonin

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4WOXh8hbkI&search=911

  • June 18, 2006, 5:31 a.m. CST

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=SXD3bAbZCow&mode=related&sea

    by shonin

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=SXD3bAbZCow&mode=related&search=controlled%20demolition

  • June 18, 2006, 7:12 a.m. CST

    Doc...allow me to retort...I dig it...

    by UncleEthan

    I understand what you're saying, hoss. A couple of quick clarifications in case I wasn't making myself clear. (Which is highly possible) The Bush regime did make the supposed connection between Osama and Saddam an issue. In fact polls done a year after the attack on Iraq showed that most Fox News viewers still believed that lie. Secondly- to clarify the Isreal/Gaza thing. My main point was that the various larger countries had in very real ways pitted Isreal and the Palestinians against one another in order to further their own ends. That does not mean I have anything against the nation of Isreal. In fact the opposite is true. I think their version of Democracy is actually working a bit better than ours. They sit surrounded by enemies yet they don't surrunder their civil liberties everytime a bomb goes off. They have a government that is more flexible and able to acknowledge when something isn't working. They are a relgious people who haven't turned into some silly dogmatic, violent,personal personal choice crushing theorcracy. As for Arab regimes...you are totaly right. Take our allies the Saudis...there is no freedom or liberty in Saudi Arabia. How about our allies Kuwait...they just got around to letting people vote but are still miles away from anything we might recognize as a democracy. Finally Doc...I do disagree with you. No "truths" are simple except maybe one, "Do unto others as you would have done unto you." There is certainly no simple truth to be found in our current Holy War. There are only mixed profit motives, lies, sadism, violence, and manipulation. This is occuring on both sides of the conflict. There are no innocent handsand quite franklythere are no good guys. Now on the other hand there is one constant in the world. There is one thing that makes most of us smile from ear to ear...there is...you got it...

  • June 18, 2006, 7:13 a.m. CST

    ...it is....

    by UncleEthan

    LOVE....

  • June 18, 2006, 8:43 a.m. CST

    "this little Indian number I am trying to get with"

    by DocPazuzu

    Do, or do not. There is no try.

  • June 18, 2006, 8:58 a.m. CST

    Anywho...

    by DutchDrunk

    All conspiracy theories aside here, I hope Michael Pena finally gets a good lead role soon. The guy is such a great actor (though he was a bit over the top in The Shield), he deserves a good break.

  • June 18, 2006, 9:07 a.m. CST

    by xenazhaan

    retroactive, if you still believe there was any link whatsoever between what happened oin sept 11 and Saddam Hussein, you are completely retarded. Anyone who thinks tower 7 fell because of the "planes" and the "jet fuel" is living in lalaland. Anyone at all who thinks GWBush and his cabal of evil didn't know about and SUPPORT what those "terrorists" were doing on sept 11.......is sadly delusioned. Same fucking thing as what happened to the Reischstag. Trump up some fake "attack" to get the sheep to support war and the degridation of thier basic rights. YOU may be quite happy to give up your liberty and freedoms in the name of the "war on terror (which BTW is a NEVER ENDING WAR)" I, however, am NOT willing to do that. Sept 11 was caused, supported, and abetted by GWBush, DCheney, CRice, et al. FTW! One day, America will wake up and realize what the fuck happened, and GWBush's rotten corpse will be dug up and burned while America weeps.

  • June 18, 2006, 9:47 a.m. CST

    i think this goes a little further back..

    by zfisk

    (In November 1975 a majority of the nations of the world agreed in the UN General Assembly that Zionism, that is Jewish nationalism, is racist. The Jewish national state, Israel, is thus built on a racist foundation. Many Jews are heavily engaged in anti-racism, but it is usually the racism of other peoples and very seldom their own that seems to take their interest. Count Coudenhove-Kalergi (1894-1972), Austrian Jew and founder and honorary president of the Pan-European Movement, wrote something very characteristically in one of his Books (Praktischer Idealismus, Vienna 1925): "The man of the future will be of mixed race. For Pan-Europe [that is united Europe] I want a European-Asiatic-Negroid mixed race. The leaders shall come from the Jews because a benevolent providence has with the Jews given Europe a new spiritual and intellectual noble race." Here we have Jewish racism in a nutshell. All Non-Jewish peoples shall become equal while "God's chosen Jewish people" shall be the master race the way it is in Israel/Palestine. All criticism of Jewish racism shall be made a "criminal offence" through anti-racism laws. One of the most keen to push for so-called anti-racism legislation in the EU is the chairman of the Management Board of the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia in Vienna, Jean Kahn, who also happens to have been the president of the European Jewish Congress. All racism must be made a "criminal offence", except the Jewish, which will be "criminal Anti-Semitism" to criticise.) im just sayin.'

  • June 18, 2006, 10:29 a.m. CST

    xenazhaan

    by Kung Fu Hustler

    Please do the only logical thing then. Leave the fucking United States!!!! If you honestly believe our own government would kill 3000, get out now, before you're next!! I hear they have great lakeview properties in Afghanistan and Iraq. You'd fit right in there, screaming about the US involvement in 9/11 and calling for the downfall of America.

  • June 18, 2006, 10:32 a.m. CST

    oh, and xenazhaan

    by Kung Fu Hustler

    Tower 7 fell because of fires burning in the building, as well as structural damage from WTC1 debris. Not jet fuel or airplanes. BTW, did you just learn about the Reischstag from one of your conspiracy theory websites??

  • June 18, 2006, 10:45 a.m. CST

    zfisk

    by DocPazuzu

    You're an idiot. Quoting the 1925 racist rantings of Coudenhove-Kalergi proves what, exactly? Zionism means support for a Jewish homeland in parts of Palestine, period. Additional meanings have been attached to it by people attempting to brand ANY support of Israel or Jews as being "racist", while it is in fact they who are attempting to whitewash their own racism. You can point to any number of fractious, extremist minority organizations who call themselves "zionist" in an attempt to stain its core ideas, but then again, I'm sure you'd consider David Duke "democratic" since that's what he calls himself. The resolution you mentioned, by the way, was rescinded by the UN in 1991 -- or maybe that was part of the Jewish plot to take over the world? You ass.

  • June 18, 2006, 10:49 a.m. CST

    The fact is...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...anyone who supports Israel's right to exist is a zionist or at the very least a zionist supporter, and yes, that includes me.

  • June 18, 2006, 10:55 a.m. CST

    Don't take it from the "nuts."

    by Fawst

    Take it from this. http://www.archive.org/details/Whats_The_Truth-How_Indeed_Did_The_Twin_Towers_Collapse It made my blood go cold. Just the POSSIBILITY did.

  • June 18, 2006, 11:23 a.m. CST

    well if they aren't taking over the world..

    by zfisk

    at least YOU are trying to take over this forum for them, no?

  • June 18, 2006, 11:29 a.m. CST

    zfisk

    by DocPazuzu

    With two posts? Or are you a disciple of rabid, paranoid, anti-semite homewrecker and his theory of virtually all talkbackers being one Jewish hydra?

  • June 18, 2006, 11:41 a.m. CST

    tipoff to Zfisk....

    by bigdickmcgee

    I have received information that Docpazuzu is in fact a paid Zionist agent. And he's on his way to your house right now to do a targeted killing on your stupid ass. Notice Homewrecker isn't posting anymore? Now brainwashed people might say that he was banned, or just slunk away like the dickless little bitch that he is. But I know the truth. Pazuzu blew him into a million pieces. And there was plenty of collateral damage as well. Xenazaahn had three quarters of his head blown away...but it had no effect on him.

  • June 18, 2006, 11:44 a.m. CST

    oh, i didnt know this room is for semites only. okay

    by zfisk

  • June 18, 2006, 12:15 p.m. CST

    DocPazuzu

    by glodene

    Yo Doc! What was your take on Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's meeting with Bush in regards to his (Israel's) new proposed Middle East Altas that when all is said and done will leave the Palestinians less than 20% of the territory they once called home...I'm not being argumentative, but since the 1947 United Nations Partition Map which divided Palestine into two states - one for Arabs (who were to get 44% of the territory) and one for Jews (who were given 54.5%), you have to admit that the Palestinians are getting the short end of the stick. I'm all for Israel's right to exist, but on the same token should'nt the Palestinians be given an equal share of the territory that they call home also?

  • June 18, 2006, 12:25 p.m. CST

    We should start using Kerosene laced bombs!

    by ganymede2010

    I mean come on, it's much cheaper and less dangerous then using Uranium laced bombs. And 911 has shown that ignited Kersone can take down one of the most solid steele and concrete structures in the world (WTC). I mean who would of thought, that Kerosene was more effective then thermite. It's much cheaper to produce, and it recreate the same results. Never knew that Kerosene that powerful. I'll never use a Kerosene lamp again. Kwowing that If my house caught on fire the Kerosene lamps would melt a hole in foundation of my wood framed house:( Kerosene the Household WMD:)

  • June 18, 2006, 1:31 p.m. CST

    glodene

    by DocPazuzu

    I think the 1947 borders would be just fine, including the West Bank, especially considering that over 70% of the Jordanian population is ethnically Palestinian and that King Hussein relinquished all claims to the West Bank in 1988. I even think they should hand over the Arab sections of Jerusalem. I'm also not against a wall, as long as it's built on the border and not -- as it is now -- on Palestinian territory. Basically, my Middle East peace plan is thus: Give the Palestinians their territory and let them form their fucking country. Then, tell the loony Israeli settlers that they have a month to vacate the settlements, after which any settlers left on Palestinian territory can consider themselves Palestinian citizens and not under the protection of the Israeli government. Build the wall to separate both peoples for a couple of generations, during which time sentiments can cool down and diplomacy (and dare I say a cautious friendship?)can develop. When normal, peaceful relations are established, then by all means tear down the wall.

  • June 18, 2006, 1:58 p.m. CST

    To tell you the truth...

    by staticneuron

    I am not normally up into the conspiracy theory ranks but there alot of questions that "should" be nagging everyone. Ok, lets say that fire's actually did weaken the steel,(Because both officials and CT's quote as fact that burning jet fuel is not enough to weaken the steel for the collapse) on really interesting thing is that the buildings collapsed straight down. As far as research can prove, outside of a Con dem, that has never happened before with a building that has a steel structure. And other than that the whole attack on the pentagon did not seem very slear at all. And it is readily apparent that playing on peoples fear and shock garnered the american public to support the war on terror. I understood the afghanistan part but never fully understood the iraq part. Btw did we ever find the WMD's he was supposedly hiding?

  • June 18, 2006, 3:08 p.m. CST

    Bush did it!

    by gorydon

    After being in office for barely 9 months Bush and his cronies managed to set large amounts of demo explosives in not one but three (including tower 7) skyscrapers with no one raising an eyebrow. Then the magical Bush coordinated an air attack with 4 of our own planes with no one in the FAA or airforce noticing. Then they filmed a fake Osama bin laden saying that he was responsible. Then on Sept. 11 Bush set the plan into motion, killing thousands of Americans in order to start a war in the middle east for oil. Yes, the maniacal genius Bush planned this whole thing. Yes, an operation of this size would require literally hundreds if not thousands of people to be "in on it", planting the explosives, training the terrorists to fly the planes...all done in nine months have you. But we all know Bush could have pulled it off. After all, this administration never has any private info leak into the public, and the hundreds of people who helped plan and execute the operation were all paid off and will forever remain silent. Yes this is what happend...or you could believe that 19 crazy guys took over a couple of planes and flew them into buildings...Ha, man I don't even like Bush, but I'm not stupid. If all things are relative, the simplist answer is usually the correct one. Occams razor bitches.

  • June 18, 2006, 4:05 p.m. CST

    Too Soon! Too Ironic!

    by ZombieSolutions

    isn't it ironic how the Ultra Right Wing NeoFascist Theocratic Conservatives -- who fucking hate New York and all it stands for what with all the homosexuals, immigrants, Jews, and all sorts of other non-white, non-christians who live and thrive there with their "godless" ways -- suddenly get all defensive and bent out of shape about NYC and 9/11? As if they really fucking cared? God, how I wish their goofy cartoonish retardo Rapture was real -- 'cause they'd be the only ones 'Left Below'; writhing in their hatemongering sexless torment they seem to want so desperately; while the rest of us would be in God's heaven snorting tons of blow and having a massive cosmic gangbang forever in space with clone army of Jessica Alba and Angelina Jolie.

  • June 18, 2006, 4:11 p.m. CST

    staticneuron

    by DoctorWho?

    Hi, your post reminded me again of the Nova episode "Why The Towers Fell". If I remember correctly, not only did the fuel weaken the steel beams themselves, it also melted the bindings which were added to reinforce this unprecedented super tall structure. THE BINDINGs were the first to go which caused the initial floor to drop or "pancake" on to the next...at that point it's a domino effect, and THAT'S why the tower dropped STRAIGHT DOWN. NOVA is a great show...I recommend that episode especially...not so much to you, but to the kooks here who can't wrap there minds around the sadistic simplicity of this whole event. Basic science people!

  • June 18, 2006, 5:55 p.m. CST

    but I love Woody Allen

    by samsquanch

    otherwise, I totally agree. Stone is a hack. Also, ZombiSolutions' last post gave me a hard on. Is that wrong?

  • June 18, 2006, 5:56 p.m. CST

    gorydon!!!! Occams Razor!!!!!

    by DoctorWho?

    EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!Thankyou!

  • June 18, 2006, 5:57 p.m. CST

    Wow ZombieSolutions...

    by DoctorWho?

    ...just...wow.

  • June 18, 2006, 6:48 p.m. CST

    Even Top CIA Say It Was An Inside Job

    by pockybot

    Robert Baer, the long time CIA veteran who wrote the book Syriana is based on is now saying the evidence is not only that 9/11 was allowed to happen, but that it may have had some inside job elements in the US government. 27 year CIA analyst Ray Mcgovern said this too. How long will liberals and conservatives continue to tow the "incompetence" theory? When so many FBI, Lt. Col's, former White House officials and a lot of 9/11 familiy members/survivors are speaking out, when will people realize Iraq wasnt the only thing they lied about? Anyways, this weekend in Los Angeles there is a HUGE anti war/anti neocon convention about exposing 9/11 and the Iran war plans. Many hollywood celebrities will be there, a premiere of Scanner Darkly with the producers, former CIA and advance defense officials, 9/11 rescue workers, etc. Anyways, Im sure the right wingers will start syaing "oh, the explosives in the buildings were planted by al Qaeda!"

  • June 18, 2006, 6:51 p.m. CST

    Occam's Razor=9/11 Was Allowed To Happen

    by pockybot

    How many FBI agents have come forward to blow the whistle? What, did al Qaeda force the FBI off the trail of al Qaeda/Osama? Did al Qaeda force fighter jets to standdown or do war games on 9/11? http://www.americanscholarssymposium.org/ Los Angeles June 24th-25th, huge conference/expo exposing 9/11 and the neocon agenda.

  • June 18, 2006, 7:06 p.m. CST

    Pockybot

    by CondomWrapper

    You doofus, do you even know what Occam's Razor means? Here's from wikipedia: "Occam's razor states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory." So what's more likely, a vast government conspiracy orchestrated by the highest levels of government that were somehow able to keep it secret, or, a bunch of nutjob Islamic terrorits attacked the WTC because they've been wanting to destroy it since '93? Come on now. I believe it was Richard Clark who said there's two fatal flaws of all conspiracy theories. 1.) They believe the government can be incredibly efficient. 2.) They believe that huge numbers of government employees can keep it a secret. Wake up Pockybot you brainwaashed turd. It ain't an inside job.

  • June 18, 2006, 7:22 p.m. CST

    No.

    by gorydon

    9/11 could have been prevented but it wasn't allowed to happen. It was an intelligence failure. A failure to connect the dots. We could have killed Osama a number of times but haven't for political reasons (we would have ended up killing some high ranking Saudi's etc...) There was a lot of red tape concerning our intelligence agencies in the 90's and they couldn't share info the way they can now. This was done to protect us and to prevent these agencies from becoming more powerful but it kinda backfired...Once again I'm not a Bush fan but I don't bend the truth to fit my views. Bush may be guilting of taking advantage of 9/11 (and seriously what politician hasn't at this point) but he wasn't pulling the strings behind the scenes.

  • June 18, 2006, 7:52 p.m. CST

    Bush Admin. Too Incompetant To Pull Off A Conspiracy

    by ZombieSolutions

    I absolutely agree. (Katrina gives us all real reinforcement for that, btw.) They were just incompetant enough to completely ignore the very real pre-9/11 attack intelligence and then use it as a jumping off point to justify completely inane and self-defeating policies. You know like that whole Endless Oil War based on cooked intelligence bearing slim to no relation to reality? (Probably written during the time we could have been planning for a defense against the 9/11 attacks? Oops.) See, thats what happens when you prop up dictators and train crazed desert religious psychos to fight your enemies -- it eventually comes back to bite you in the ass. (I bet Putin can't stop laughing his ass off at the latest protracted and extremely expensive US Foreign Policy disaster.) It might also help to actually write a coherent energy policy and start investing serious cash into developing alternatives to fossil fuels so we don't have to keep killing people for it; unless, of course, the Bushies want War Without End. Oh shit, thats right! Those Bushies; those NeoFascist Theocratic NeoConservatives; they're all about that whole Apocalyptic Christian Nightmare War shit aren't they? Uh oh! Oh well! May as well grab yr. ankles and hope for the best! Its gonna be a bumpy End of Empire! BLAMMO!

  • June 18, 2006, 8:24 p.m. CST

    Incompetence Theory My Ass

    by pockybot

    That would explain why the FBI was forced off from investigating al Qaeda or Osama, or why Pakistan's role was covered up? I'm sick of hearing these self righteous cynical bastards say "oh it was all incompetence"...here's my answer to that: First, forget Loose Change. thats all rumors and hearsay. You want to check out: Martial Law 9/11: http://www.archive.org/details/MartialLaw911 Youll also want to see a documentary that PROVES Bush forced the FBI off the trail of Osama and al Qaeda: http://www.911blogger.com/2006/05/video-everybodys-gotta-learn-sometime.html Next, you'll want the HARDCORE proof. First, let's look at some of the people who have come forward: 20 year top CIA official Robert Baer, who says in this interview it looks like it was allowed to happen and possibly an inside job: http://www.911podcasts.com/files/audio/HartmannBaer.mp3 Next, top former Advance Defense and Star Wars founder Robert Bowman says the proof is it was an inside job: http://prisonplanet.tv/audio/030406bowman.htm former George W Bush chief economist Morgan Reynolds says it was an inside job: http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050613-102755-6408r.htm Former chief Regan economist and Reaganomics author Paul Craig Roberts says it was an inside job: http://www.lasvegastribune.com/20050729/headline3.html Congressman Mark Dayton says NORAD lied, and 9/11 was a lie: http://web.archive.org/web/20040811061345/http://www.startribune.com/stories/1576/4904237.html 27 year analyst Roay Mocgovern says it was an inside job, as well Rep Cynthia Mckinney, and others. Senator Babara Boxer is saying we were lied to. http://www.madison.com/redirect.php?type=newstool&id=83698 4 Star General Wesley Clark says Bush lied about 9/11: http://securingamerica.com/node/692 Catherine Fitts, Bush W's secretary of housing says we were lied to about 9/11: http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041101130426916 Former top German defense Minsiter Andreas von Beulow says no question it was an inside job: http://prisonplanet.tv/audio/200406vonbuelow.htm Countless FBI agents, some M15 agents and others have also come forward. Many many FBI agents in particular, from John ONeil and Harry Samit to Coleen Rowley, Sibel Edmonds and Robert Wright. The architect of the WTC as well as the head of the company that made the WTC and certified the steel came out within days to say theres no way planes or fire brought down the towers. And expert phsyics professor Steven Jones among others has said direct evidence of millitary grade thermite was used to sabotage the tower's internal core. Top air force officer says 9/11 allowed to happen, and that he personally was forced to train one of the hijackers: http://www.voxfux.com/features/officer_slams_bush.html Lt. Col. Anthony Schaefer came out to expose Able Danger: http://www.legitgov.org/9_1_1_oddities.html Lt. Col. Donn de Grand-Pre says the evidence shows the US was in on it: http://www.prisonplanet.com/022904degrand.html You got everyone from Charlie Sheen, director David Lynch, the lead singer of Blink 182, Richard Dreyfuss, and writers Erica Jong and Gore Vidal saying it was an inside job to Jeaneane Garafalo, Harry Belefonte, many people in journalism and hollywood...just in case people dont want to listen to politicians. And now for the HARDCORE proof the official story is a LIE: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Philadelphia's #1 newspaper says many 9/11 questions unanswered: http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/14439058.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp So does the Village Voice: http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0549,murphy,70685,6.html MSNBC archive: hijackers trained at US bases: http://www.prisonplanet.com/alleged_hijackers_may_trained_us_bases.html FBI agents told to "back off" from investigating al Qaeda months before 9/11: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4293682,00.html Time.com "9/11, an Inside Job? How the boxcutters were preplanted" http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,175953,00.html MSNBC Slate: Boxcutter story a myth: http://www.slate.com/id/2088092/ USA Today: NORAD ran drills simulating 9/11 like attack http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm Masterminds of 9/11's real power comes from the CIA: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/opinion/datelinedc/s_20141.html Bush forced EPA to lie about 9/11: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/09/national/main567489.shtml Mineta testifying about Cheney's suspicious 9/11 behavior: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y&search=mineta MSNBC: Osama a former CIA asset: http://www.msnbc.com/news/190144.asp Pakistan funded 9/11: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1266317,00.html More proof Pakistan is in on al Qaeda and 9/11: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1734113.stm http://www1.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/articleshow?art_id=1454238160 US ignored evidence al Qaeda funded by Pakistan: http://us.rediff.com/news/2003/sep/25us.htm Two 9/11 hijackers lived with FBI informant: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/09/attack/main521223.shtml Here's a VERY important Washington Times article showing how an FBI agent went to her superiors with documents from pre 9/11 that al Qaeda was going to strike with hijacked airlines: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60651-2004Apr8.html FBI agent blocked by higher ups on uncovering plot: http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-moussa21mar21,1,5398407.story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage FBI translator Sibel Edmonds says that if the truth ever came out about 9/11, there'd be some very high people in the US government behind bars: http://baltimorechronicle.com/050704SibelEdmonds.shtml Top FBI agents told to back off from investigating al Qaeda hijackers months before 9/11 http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/another-fbi-agent-blows-the-whistle/3706/ FBI agents drop 9/11 bombshell: http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020603/memo.html FBI agent robert wright warned the WTC was going to be attacked soon based on evidence field agents found, and that a terrorist attack was imminent, but he was told to shut up: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/5/30/161204.shtml FBI agents say government is protecting terrorists, covering up 9/11: http://www.judicialwatch.org/2469.shtml #3 CIA man says Osama should stay free: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1431539,00.html Taliban, UK, Israel, India and Russia warned US weeks before 9/11 a big strike was going to occur: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2242594.stm http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/16/wcia16.xml http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jid/jidpromo011005.shtml http://prisonplanet.com/bush_was_given_hijack_warning_by_british.htm Intelligence keeping top al Qaeda masterminds safe and protected: more proof intelligence is providing safe haven for the top 9/11 masterminds and al Qaeda planners: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,300609,00.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/ukresponse/story/0,11017,751102,00.html US allowed top al Qaeda and Taliban flee to safety: http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story/0,7369,636763,00.html http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?artid=38382324 And of course the US made a deal with Pakistan to have these top al Qaeda flown out in late 2001 to safety: http://www.msnbc.com/news/664935.asp CIA used al Qaeda to attack Serbs in Bosnia: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,688310,00.html http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?f=/stories/20020315/344843.html 9/11 Families Back 9/11 FBI Whistleblowers: http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050123-072909-2717r.htm PBS documentary on FBI John O'Neil, who was told at every turn along with other FBI agents to stop investigating al Qaeda, was convinced the US was complicit with Osama and said the WTC were going to be attacked: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/ FBI agents bring about evidence to 9/11 families how much the government knew: http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0415/mondo10.php

  • June 18, 2006, 9 p.m. CST

    GENTLEMEN!!!!!

    by UncleEthan

    ...and I will be courteous enough to extend that consideration to both sides of this particular fight. I am back, however, to put forth the following thesis. If there were more people getting regular- high quality pussy we would all be better off. What, pilgrims, is the first thing you think of when rolling off of agood juicy pussy? I don't know about you, but laying there in the bed I am thinkng about getting more pussy. I'm not thinking about attacking a third world country for my oil buddies. I'm not thinking about killing innocent civilians in a senceless terrorist attack. Nope. I'm thinking about getting more pussy. Even if it's not the pussy I am getting off of right then...I am thinking about getting pussy not killing my fellow human beings. More pussy=less pain and destruction. I bet if Bill O'reily and Al Franken were to run a finger cuffs on Anne Coulter even they cold find a way to get along.

  • June 18, 2006, 9:05 p.m. CST

    Pockybot needs time away from the coumputer...

    by cagirl

    that much is clear. I like Zombiesolution's idea the best...cosmic gangbang here we come!!

  • June 19, 2006, 12:21 a.m. CST

    Pockybot needs to take UncleEthan's advice..

    by CondomWrapper

    And get some pussy. Mmmmmm goooood. I tell you what Pockybot, if you promise to get our of your parent's basement and take a shower, I'll pick you up and take you to a "spa" to get a handjob from a Korean hooker. Good deal? If you want she'll even put her mouth around your two inch erection. But that'll cost more and since you spent all your money buying midget porn, I don't think you could afford oral satisfaction. Ooohhh Yeeeaaah....

  • June 19, 2006, 12:50 a.m. CST

    Hey Anchorite

    by samsquanch

    Um, They killed Jesus? (duh.) _______JOKING! Um, what about this crazy theory- Because didn't have a homeland for oh, like, 5000 YEARS, they naturally ended up being the outsiders, the perennial immigrants, and we all know how well humans deal with the "other" in their midst, don't we? As far as controlling money goes, that's mostly a myth, but if you find an example where it is fairly true, you'll also find an example of an immigrant community trying to carve out a living, the same way immigrant communities today tend to gravitate towards jobs/industries no one wants. I heard the reason so many Jews ended up in the film industry was because back when film was still just a nascent fad no one else wanted it, and no one predicted the massive success the medium would have in our culture. Of course, now morons like Homwrecker point to their presence in the media industries as "evidence" of a vast Zionist conspiracy. Of course, he's retarded. Goodnight!

  • June 19, 2006, 1:17 a.m. CST

    Questions that need answers

    by Fawst

    What caused the rapid fire "pop" explosions reported by firefighers just before the towers fell? What caused the three loud explosions heard by many just before the towers fell? Why was molten fire not only pouring out of one of the towers prior to its fall, but also found at the heart of the wreckage SIX WEEKS AFTER the fall? Why was there a maintenance related power shutdown on the top fifty floors the weekend before 9/11? What was the explosion heard in the basement level by the stairway maintenance man just prior to the first plane collision? Why didn't the sprinkler system in WTC7 put out the small fires going on throughout that building? Why did Silverstein give the order to "pull it" in reference to WTC7? If no steel beam foundation building ever collapsed before due to fire, what are the odds that this record wasn't broken once, not twice, but THREE TIMES in one day (WTC1, 2 and 7)? If it was a pancake effect collapse, why did all three buildings collapse at freefall speeds (10 seconds in the case of the first fallen tower)? If WTC7 fell as a result of "fire and debris," why are there tell-tale signs of a controlled demolition, most glaring of all the "kink" at the roof of the structure, and to a lesser extent the "squib" explosions along the outer wall? Why were debris and body parts found as far away as seven miles from the crash site of United 93 if it wasn't shot down in air? Why were the fighters that were scrambled during the attacks sent from distant bases instead of more local ones? Why was there a 1000% or more increase in "sell short" stock trading relating to the airline industry in the weeks leading up to 9/11? Why is 2.5 million dollars of profit from said stock trading still unclaimed? Why were government officials warned of threats to the airlines days before 9/11 but not the airlines? And last, but certainly not least, WHY THE FUCK IS THE MEDIA IGNORING ALL OF THIS? I'm sorry, but when a physicist tells us that jet fuel burns in PERFECT conditions (of which the insides of those towers certainly was not) at a temperature far below that needed to melt steel, I have to question what really happened. Keep drinking the kool-aid, guys. To quote A Perfect Circle, "step away from the window, go back to sleep." Nothing to see here, folks, just some paranoid conspiracy nuts making a mountain out of a mole hill.

  • June 19, 2006, 1:18 a.m. CST

    Oops.

    by Fawst

    I meant "what are the odds that this record WAS broken." Not wasn't. I suck.

  • June 19, 2006, 1:19 a.m. CST

    Gah!

    by Fawst

    I REALLY suck. I'm tired. I did mean "wasn't."

  • June 19, 2006, 3:16 a.m. CST

    Fawst

    by Unaju

    "What caused the rapid fire "pop" explosions reported by firefighters just before the towers fell?" Just imagine for a second and think about what would happen to buildings like WTC when they're about to fall. There were loud noises heard through out the building before the fall. Giant beams of steel warping and twisting would make a lot of noise. "What caused the three loud explosions heard by many just before the towers fell?" See above. I'd like add that electrical equipment in the buildings could have easily caused loud explosions. "Why was molten fire not only pouring out of one of the towers prior to its fall, but also found at the heart of the wreckage SIX WEEKS AFTER the fall?" The entire building was turned into a conduit for jet fuel. There are first hand accounts of flames bursting out of the elevator shafts in the lobby. The fire from the wreckage burned for days... where were you? Jet fuels burn at 800 to 1500

  • June 19, 2006, 4:56 a.m. CST

    Pockybot.....

    by DocPazuzu

    "You got everyone from Charlie Sheen, director David Lynch, the lead singer of Blink 182, Richard Dreyfuss, and writers Erica Jong and Gore Vidal saying it was an inside job to Jeaneane Garafalo, Harry Belefonte, many people in journalism and hollywood...just in case people dont want to listen to politicians." .......... Oh, lord...

  • June 19, 2006, 8:09 a.m. CST

    World Trade Center film review

    by realCOP

    I am someone involved with the film. I have to say that the review above, is very wrong. I do not know if you know that everything that was mentioned as being bad acting or the actors not havng to work with came out of the real people involved experiences from that day. I guess that the truth is stranger than fiction. I actually know that the scene about people being asked to go in the buildings actually happaned like that. All I can tell everyone who reads this is that the film moved people that went to see the screenings and will touch your heart because it came from real people. The script was what actually happned and if you want to rip that apart it is truly sad because I guess a film that tells the truth is not worth telling because people like the above reviewer did not take the time to see that it is really a true story? Also, for you that have not been in a combat or a serious situation such as 9/11 there is no time for hero stuff, people did what they had to do to save people and you will see how it occured through the eyes of these men and their families and those that rescued them. I urge you to go see this film for yourself because what I have found to be true is that it does not matter if it is Roper and whoever or this guy above who gives you thier opinions but the only person that can tell you if a film is good or not is you. This film is as true as it gets and if real life is corny or does not give you what fictional films give you then all of our lives are never worth sharing. Oliver Stone did an amazing job with this film that will show you the best in us all that day. Don't listen to this guy he is way off base.

  • June 19, 2006, 9:53 a.m. CST

    It will be good

    by realCOP

    Again, many people have seen the film and you are the only negetive review that has come out, which I can respect becuase that is what makes our world and freedoms work. I disagree with the above review and yes, one day there will a major 9/11 film, this is not it nor was it intedent to be. This film focuses on what happan to a team of men and in depth on two of them, their families and the men that came in to rescue them. T The Marine does come across a bit much but do you know a Marine? Need I say more? Overall, the film does not set out to deal with the major event itself but what a samll group of went through and survived. It is a positive story that is done well and only time will tell what we as a people feel about the film. In this film as opposed to United 93, which was well done. You will get to know these people more in depth and you will see they are no diffrent than any of us and I know people will identify with this film and it will ge a blockbuster because people can again see these people are the same as them

  • June 19, 2006, 11:02 a.m. CST

    Unaju

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    Good effort. Just be forwarned that guys like Fawst will come back at you with nearly every quotation and link to/from "Loose Change", InfoWars, etc. I've gone head-to-head with some of these guys in the past (i.e. AGEIIX)...it makes for an interesting & challenging discussion. But as for pockybot, he spouts nothing but Alex Jones-style rhetoric and comes off like a payed minion for that paranoid fearmonger.

  • June 19, 2006, 12:08 p.m. CST

    CT, not all crap...

    by shonin

    Ok, ok, claiming that Bush and his buddies were totally responsible for 9/11 is crazy, but only to a point. The NSA, CIA and FBI, COULD have allowed the hijacking to take place, and could have known more or less when it was going to happen. There are clearly lots of issues as to how and why the towers fell, and there needs to be an independent multi-national inquiry. However, it's a lot easier for the FBI, NSA, CIA to plant bombs in US skyscrapers than it would be for them to hide WMD's in Iraq. While on the subject, why has the US government not released clear footage of the plane crashing into the Pentagon? I'm not one of those people that thinks it was a missile (but it could have been), but it's ridiculous to suggest that the only footage was some crappy carpark camera. It's the fucking Pentagon!!! They must CCTV everywhere! HELLO, WTF!! If this had happenend in Europe then the public would knock the fucking walls of governemnt down to demand the whole truth! I'm almost convinced that Bush and his administration are all puppets being played by the real powers that be. Namely the paranoid, power hungry and greedy big businesses and home security agencies.

  • June 20, 2006, 1:14 a.m. CST

    Sooo....

    by FilmFanMan

    Is this film any good? After reading so much political BS, I want to know if this film is really worth my $. Somehow, I think that all this political debate (if that's what you want to call it) is worthy more of another website. I thought this was a movie website. Oh well. I guess unless someone comes forward who was in Al Queda, in the Bush Administration, on the Airplanes, has the video to back them up, and who knows why the hell we can't cure the Common Cold, well...I suppose that we can only speculate. Sounds a lot like a Movie!!! While you're at it, please give us a theory as to why your own death was a result of Global Warming. Sheesh!

  • June 21, 2006, 1:57 a.m. CST

    FIRST!!!!!!

    by HallowedBThyName

    How low can you go, posting FIRST on a topic this big. Still you cant pass it up.

  • June 21, 2006, 1:59 a.m. CST

    Ehr a, maybe not quite FIRST

    by HallowedBThyName

    Must've missed the part of the screen with all the other posts. On a more serious note, you gotta give them a little time to get the film together, especially if it's without even music yet.