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Saffy Reviews THE BIG BUY: TOM DELAY'S STOLEN CONGRESS And Interviews The Director!!

Hi, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab...

Y’know, for me, the mark of a great documentary about politics is one that doesn’t pick a side and hammer a point mercilessly. I’m not a fan of blatant propaganda. But there’s no question that there is a role to be played by the documentary filmmaker in the political process, especially right now when traditional discourse seems to have failed utterly. As a result, I’m curious to see how someone tackles a subject as potentially difficult as Tom DeLay and his legacy. When Saffy, a longtime AICN chatter and BNATer, asked us if we wanted a review of the film and an interview with the filmmaker, we turned her loose, and here’s the result:

First I would like to clear two things up:

1.) There is a picture on the net where a bewildered baby is looking at Howard Dean like he is a visitor from Pluto. Yes, that child is mine.

2.) A lesser known picture of half a head sniffing the neck of former 2004 Vice Presidential candidate John Edwards belongs to me as well.

So of course, the movie, The Big Buy: Tom DeLay’s Stolen Congress would appeal to my smug, liberal, fill in the blank with whatever political smear word you can come up with, ass. There, got that out of your system? Now are you sitting down?

The film, was written, directed, and produced by Texas filmmakers Mark Birnbaum and Jim Schermbeck and is distributed by Brave New Films.

The opening credits start with a startlingly young Tom DeLay super imposed on the skyscrapers of Houston proclaiming that he was going to get into congress and basically take an enormous amount of power away from the Federal Government. Although I disagree with him, it is exactly what his Republican constituency wanted. DeLay enters his career in congress as a party idealist, or so you would think. While this film could’ve easily become a primer on “Why the Republican Party is in League With the Devil” it actually turns into something unexpected, it becomes a film about what happened to Tom DeLay when he stopped being a Republican.

For the unfamiliar, all hell broke loose when Tom DeLay interfered in TX state politics. I am not going to give you a 36-page dissertation on the events leading to his arrest because the film explains it perfectly. I will, however, give you the TV guide version of what went down: As a congressman Tom DeLay wielded his power to get certain state representatives elected, the state representatives voted to draw new congressional lines in Texas that would give the Republicans five more seats in Congress. The illegal part is that he allegedly used, and laundered corporate funds (Corporate Donations to campaigns are illegal in TX) into a PAC (a political action group- where it IS Legal to give funds to candidates) and used the money to run fabulous campaigns. So, Tom DeLay and his aides were arrested and DeLay resigned and court cases are still pending. Oh and the guy who produced Red Scorpion is in there too.

So, the irony in this film is that when Tom DeLay used the Federal government to interfere (against the wishes of the very Republican Governor and Lt. Governor, I may add) in TX state politics, he set the wheels in motion for his downfall. What DeLay did was not only against the ideals of the Republican Party, but also against what it is to be a Texan. Texas Democrat, Republican, and everyone in between cannot abide by the interference of the Federal Government into their “country”. So the movie isn’t about “Republicans are Evil” it is about “Abusing power and betraying your people”

The strength of this movie is the cast of characters. The film starts with a gossip sessions with two ladies who embody the spirit of a Texas woman. Jacqueline Blankenship and Beverly Carter are two smart, opinionated, involved, Annie Oakly-esque Republican activists from Sugarland. Blankenship and Carter are basically the women you want to sit next to at the church social. Hot Tub Tom, as they call him, had a lot of fun in the eighties (which almost makes me like him...almost). Tom also evidently found religion right around the time of the Contract with America and naturally his political career took off on a national level. Blankenship and Carter also lament the loss of their party to the Christian right. According to Ms. Carter the religious right gained power because party members let them take over. The members of the Christian coalition answered phones, rang doorbells, donated, and mobilized themselves so that the party began to turn in their direction, which is the way politics works.

Love him or hate him, Austin D.A. Ronnie Earle is a stand out. Part Will Rogers, part gunslinger, part evangelist, he takes the movie and puts it in his pocket. Earle’s aphorisms are priceless although sometimes perplexing, but he very compelling to watch. There is a fire to Earle, a light behind the eyes. The light is almost a religious fervor. He truly believes he is “saving” the very foundation of our country. It is at the same time jarring, yet oddly inspirational. Another stand out, Populist Activist Jim Hightower, is almost stock-character “wise cowboy”. It seems Hightower would be able to tell you to go to hell and you would look forward to the trip. In fact, you may even be inclined to send him a knick-knack once you got there and thank him for the vacation suggestion.

The film itself does a very good job of being “Texan”, the state where multimillion-dollar oil barons can be seen at the HEB wearing snakeskin cowboy boots and a red shirt with fringe. The Big Buy captures the strange dichotomy of the Wild West and the international business center that is the Texas identity.

The directors try to create a Noir feel, which isn’t always fully realized, in the digital confines of this film. But the Big Buy is a satisfying movie that does not feel like homework, and it also has an air of “reasonable” that is missing from a film like Fahrenheit 9/11.

I am not saying everyone is going to leave this film throwing petals. This is a film about political figures, and when you are dealing with ideologies someone’s fuse is bound to be lit.

I recently spoke to one of the directors of The Big Buy- Jim Schermbeck. Jim is a Native Texan who has worked with both Democratic and Republican campaigns. He and his directing partner Mark Birnbaum produced a PBS film, Larry v. Lockney, about a father who fights mandatory school drug testing for his son. I was able to speak with Jim about the Tom DeLay movie, and some of the issues that come with documentary film making.

S: What drew you to this project?

J: We first took notice to it when there were complaints filed against Texas Association of business and then what would become the Tom DeLay PAC as well back in 2002, right after the 2002 election, so there was a lot of news right out of the gate because of those complaints which picked up over about a years time. We had originally gone to Congressman DeLay and tried to talked to them about letting us film a documentary from their point of view about what It was like to be, probably, the second most powerful man in Washington D.C. and the subject of this scandal that seemed to be brewing and growing in TX. So we tried to do that and they never called us back. So we went to the other end of the investigation, which was Ronnie Earle. We gave him a copy of the last show we did for PBS, we told him what we wanted to do, and how we wanted to interview him and so on. He thought about it and after about a month he said “Ok I’ll let you have access every now and then” and that’s what he did.

S: Have you gotten any flack for this? Have you seen any backlash for the film?

J: Oh yeah, sure. Starting back, even before it came out in September/October last year, a researcher for the Republican National committee had notices we got a slot at a video festival as a work in progress and the local alternative weekly had done a story on that. She (the researcher) sent it up to Byron York and we ended up in Drudge in Earley October with an incredible story about how Ronnie Earle had let this documentary crew follow him around even inside the grand jury room and so-forth. So even that kind of publicity and backlash Earley on before the film was even out. Right before this film, the last fundraising film Tom DeLay did as a congressional candidate was aimed at the film saying that these Michael Moore types were coming after him and won’t you please send me money to fight them, and a couple days later he pulled out of the race. About a week ago, he also sent out another fundraising appeal for his legal defense fund aimed also at the movie, using a hilarious piece from Stephen Colbert show, the Colbert Report where Robert Greenwalt, our distributor from Brave New Films went on to plug the film and they used it as it was a straight news piece not realizing it was a comedy central show, that Colbert is ripping off and parodying Bill O’Reilly, they actually used it as if he was Bill O’Reilly. Of course every time something like that happens it helps us. It was a really strange thing and a real cynical think for the DeLay camp to do if you go back and look at the appeal that went out, they don’t expect any of the people who give them money to know who Stephen Colbert is, and it doesn’t matter to them, they are just using it as a way to raise money.

S: While we are on Stephen Colbert and that type of media: There’s a new word out there, and it is of course attached to Al Gore’s film, it is Docuganda. They are insinuating that there are films out there done in documentary style that are actually propaganda. As a documentary filmmaker how do you feel about that?

J: I think you could make a case that every documentary out there is propaganda because there is a person’s perspective behind every edit, behind everything you see in the film, there is already a perspective, it is not like that there is an objective source of the material. People put them together, so they have people’s perspective. Now you can be more balanced in the way you present it, you can be fair in presenting people’s point of view and we certainly are that. Actually I think that Al Gore’s film does that as well, to me that is a very weird and distorted way to look at documentaries because there have always been points of view in documentaries. Documentaries have been all over the map, from the kind you can use in a classroom to the more outrageous ones like Michael Moore. If you go back and look at the history of documentaries, Nanook of the North, often cited as the very first documentary, the whole thing was staged. It was one recreation after another and not even accurate recreations but it was portrayed as a documentary. You really have a hard time saying what a documentary film is these days, every documentary film has a point of view, as does ours. Ours certainly does have a point of view, I haven’t added up the minute but I would guess DeLay is on screen almost as much as Ronnie Earle despite the fact that he didn’t give us an interview; because we use a lot of news footage of DeLay defending himself and going after Earle, and so forth. So, we have a lot of Tom DeLay in the film, its just he never sat down for an interview the way Ronnie Earle did so when people see it you obviously remember Ronnie a lot because he is right in your face.

S: I found the great irony in your film, is that in the beginning of the film Tom DeLay spoke of getting rid of the federal government. But, when Tom DeLay fell, he fell as a person in the federal government trying to interfere in state politics.

J: It’s an old story isn’t it? I mean, the revolutionary comes into office hoping to abolish and the institution overwhelms the individual and not only becomes a part of it, but epitomizes it, that is Greek tragedy right there. What was interesting with the shows I saw with audiences in both Houston and Austin, the biggest laugh line in the whole film unintentionally was when Bonner comes out after DeLay is sworn to resign and Bonner comes up in the hallway and talks about what a great congressman DeLay has been and what a great part DeLay has played in cutting the federal budget. There was just howls of laughter knowing well that DeLay was one of the biggest producers of pork his district has ever seen, I mean the likes of Lyndon Johnson. Its an interesting story, 1994 just having just won congress and they want to, literally, cut the government to pieces and over just 10 to 12 year period of time they end up becoming the federal government and not only that but abusing the powers of the government in a way we haven’t seen for a long time.

S: What were some of your cinematic influences for this film?

J: Once we got indictments and it was clear it was a crime film, at least it was a story about crimes being committed, we started looking at film Noir...themes, and subjects, and music, and how we could make a film about campaign finance that was a sexy film. This is about campaign finance, but it isn’t, it is about, really, a guy’s huge ambition and his office. How do you make a film about that that is not a political science film that is not a classroom film that people will sit through and not be bored by? So we just decided to adopt a film Noir framing, as much as we could. We weren’t always successful in keeping the mood of that because of the constraints on budget or just not being able to do some of the things we want to do timing-wise, for the most part you do get that film, it’s very dark, the music helps a lot, we had some really great composers working with us on original music. We tried to make Austin and the State Capital kind of a character of its own, the way we shoot that. Obviously films like the Big Sleep, and all of those 40s and 50s film Noir kinds of presentations, that’s what we were thinking of and trying to transpose on a modern story with Tom DeLay as the mastermind, Ronnie Earle as the crusading DA, and the lady liberty figure, on top of the TX Capitol Building as kind of the women in distress.

S: Ok, here’s the million-dollar question...Why would a Republican want to see this film?

J: There are a couple of reasons. First of all this is a warning of what happens to whatever party is in power and how power can get away from you. Rather than you directing the power, the power kind of begins directs you and what you do. It is a warning show not only to Republicans but Democrats as well. There have been plenty of scandals in TX history and national history involving Democrats. So this is a perpetual warning to whoever is in power that you can fall out of grace just as fast as you rose.

Secondly, as a Republican, you really do need to ask yourself what Tom DeLay was about, if he really was a Republican. I’m not sure he was, I think he’s kind of a member of the opportunist party or at least has been the last couple of year. He is not really a conservative, if you look at what he has voted for and what he has tried to accomplish I am not sure you could defend his conservative credentials all that well as surprising as that may sound. I think as a Republican you would want to go check this out and see what he was about, and what other Republicans in congress feel about Tom DeLay now are they still supportive of him? Are they sorry they took money from him? What is their stance about him now?

The film The Big Buy: Tom DeLay’s Stolen Congress is on a multi-city tour, but is also being sold on DVD. For screening dates, or information on how to purchase the film visit the official site.

If you are interested in some of the lighter, fluffier, aspects of the conversation (like Pee Wee’s Big Adventure, Lost, and Snakes on a Plane!) You can listen to those on DorkDeJour right here.

Thanks, Saff. Let the rabid loony talkbacks begin!

"Moriarty" out.





Readers Talkback
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  • June 11, 2006, 8:11 p.m. CST

    FIRST!

    by ATARI

  • June 11, 2006, 8:27 p.m. CST

    Second.

    by Mostholy

    As even moderate Republicans such as Chris Shays admit at this point, Boss DeLay is a national embarrassment. The GOP defend he, Bob Ney, and other corrupt members of their congressional leadership at their peril.

  • June 11, 2006, 8:34 p.m. CST

    Trailer was good

    by Bean_

    I'll see this if it comes by.

  • June 11, 2006, 8:36 p.m. CST

    Liberals suck!

    by Zombie Carnifex

    And so do conservatives! Apathy is where it's at! Let's watch our U.S. crumble! Woo hoo!

  • June 11, 2006, 9:02 p.m. CST

    You can be balanced...

    by ILK

    making a film about a cheating, lying, hypocritical person. But being balanced in such a pursuit does not include presenting such a person in a positive light just so people do not accuse you of being biased. I'm not suggesting that this filmmaker has done such a thing, just commenting on the idea of this "Docuganda" BS. Including lies does not equal balance. Sometimes the truth can seem like propaganda when it sheds light on realities you don't particularly feel comfortable facing. Yes, "truth" has a tendancy to be more maleable than we'd like it to be, but not always.

  • June 11, 2006, 9:03 p.m. CST

    "Aint It Cool News"

    by digital8

    Not "Politically One-Sided News"

  • June 11, 2006, 9:13 p.m. CST

    Evil republicans

    by Nordling

    Ann Coulter is your whore, except she doesn't have the good sense a whore does to shut the hell up after she picks up her money off the dresser. Discuss. (BTW, way to go Saffy!!)

  • June 11, 2006, 9:18 p.m. CST

    Ok, I posted.........

    by SilentBob X

    Now gimme my dollar. Hehe

  • June 11, 2006, 9:18 p.m. CST

    SAFFY IS A TERRORIST

    by ErnieAnderson

    It's true! The EFF BEE AYE told me so!

  • June 11, 2006, 9:21 p.m. CST

    SAFFY HAS A BEER AND CHEETS ON HER CANDIDATE!

    by ErnieAnderson

    I heard she's being replaced in the movie by a Camaro, too.

  • June 11, 2006, 9:23 p.m. CST

    The New Face of Terrorism

    by Lud

    Saffy clearly represents the new face of terrorism. The Taliban have been training people for years in the arts of social engineering and this is just the beginning of their strikes against us, the geek community. Stay true brothers. Don't let the terrorists win. Buy your groceries from walmart, and don't talk to gays.

  • June 11, 2006, 9:23 p.m. CST

    HAVE I MENTIONED THAT I'M A PINKO COMMIE LIBERAL?

    by ErnieAnderson

    All of you Republicants can suck on my Democratic Donkey Dong.

  • June 11, 2006, 9:25 p.m. CST

    VOTING DEMOCRAT IS LIKE EATING PUSSY!

    by ErnieAnderson

    Ask Harry. He'll tell you how in detail.

  • June 11, 2006, 9:27 p.m. CST

    For old time's sake...

    by ErnieAnderson

    Fuck first posters. Fuck them up their stupid asses.

  • June 11, 2006, 9:27 p.m. CST

    What happens when a party remains in power too long?

    by DarthSnoogans

    Just ask the Democrats, who from the Great Depression until 1994 controlled Congress. We continue paying the price for ridiculously high tax rates, bloated Federal bureaucracies, and failing/ineffective government entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare. The Republican Party's only fault is that they are too spineless and afraid of losing power to actually do what's necessary, namely eliminate and/or privatize those programs. I wouldn't need Social Security or Medicare if 40% of my paycheck weren't taken away from me every two weeks to feed the entitlement monster.

  • June 11, 2006, 9:28 p.m. CST

    Saffy needs a glass of milk

    by Lud

    to wash down all that warm salty Clinton jizz.

  • June 11, 2006, 9:29 p.m. CST

    Jason Mewes will SKULLFUCK you, Snoogans!

    by ErnieAnderson

    Don't take a liberal's tag line for a conservative bootlicker's nick.

  • June 11, 2006, 9:29 p.m. CST

    CLINTON JIZZ TASTES LIKE STRAWBERRIES!

    by ErnieAnderson

    My mom told me so.

  • June 11, 2006, 9:30 p.m. CST

    Republicans rock

    by Lud

    My furniture is made out of hobos. Beat that liberals.

  • June 11, 2006, 9:31 p.m. CST

    LUD IS AN AMERICAN HERO.

    by ErnieAnderson

    Never mind that he's a Republican. He slays the hobo menace.

  • June 11, 2006, 9:34 p.m. CST

    Slay?

    by Lud

    Nope. They're alive. Technically.

  • June 11, 2006, 9:36 p.m. CST

    Suspended animation is almost a living death!!!

    by ErnieAnderson

    Just ask Walt Disney!

  • June 11, 2006, 9:36 p.m. CST

    Walt Disney is an American Hero

    by Lud

    Between his jew hatin and his Elian eating.

  • June 11, 2006, 9:43 p.m. CST

    LIBERAL SPAM!!!

    by ErnieAnderson

    http://www.climatecrisis.net/

  • June 11, 2006, 9:45 p.m. CST

    GEEK SPAM!!!

    by ErnieAnderson

    http://dorkdejour.blogspot.com/

  • June 11, 2006, 9:48 p.m. CST

    SPAM SPAM!!!

    by ErnieAnderson

    http://www.hormel.com/kitchen/recipe.asp?id=5543&hlite=true&querytext=spam

  • June 11, 2006, 10:46 p.m. CST

    PLAIN SPAM!!!

    by Avenger534

    www.spam.com

  • June 11, 2006, 10:48 p.m. CST

    Writing 101

    by Crash Crator

    "For the unfamiliar, all hell broke loose..."

  • June 11, 2006, 10:55 p.m. CST

    re: digital8, Panterarocks, and DarthSnoogans

    by mattw

    digital8, did you actually read the review? Not one-sided in the least bit. Panterarocks, your defense of Tom Delay seems to be, "Oh yeah, well it's possible a Democrat broke the law, too!". That doesn't change the facts about Delay. And the fact that there's no movie about Jefferson is not hypocrisy. Go make one if you feel strongly about it. DarthSnoogans, I stopped reading your post when I saw the words "The Republican Party's only fault is". People who blindly defend their party, whether Democrat or Republican, are not interested in facts. Don't waste your time, people.

  • June 11, 2006, 10:56 p.m. CST

    What the fuck are you yanks jabbering about??

    by Windowlicker74

    The planet is watching the world cup football, while you geeks are rambling on about clinton jizz...this is so fucking boring

  • June 11, 2006, 11:02 p.m. CST

    Scholars, professors, pundits and publishers...

    by Vegas

    Mona lisas and madhatters, sons of bankers sons of lawyers...butchers, bakers, candlestick makers...friends, romans, countrymen...whigs, torries, carpetbaggers and scalywags...stars on thars and those without stars, which one of these do you think she was trying to impress in the first place? It's fucking AICN, not salon.com. Anyway, it doesn't matter, this woman is obviously a terrorist. Or a plant.

  • June 11, 2006, 11:03 p.m. CST

    News Flash: Power Corrupts.

    by cookylamoo

    or does it? Maybe the kind of people who seek power are corrupt from the get go. And when did Gerrymandering become accepted political proceedure?

  • June 11, 2006, 11:32 p.m. CST

    HEB is a Grocery Store

    by brakula

    Just thought I'd clear that up for anybody who wondered. Interesting read, and I can't wait to see this movie. As a resident of DeLay's district, I am in the unique position of paying taxes without representation. I guess I need to go have a tea party now...

  • June 11, 2006, 11:49 p.m. CST

    I'm sure DarthSnoogans will....

    by Deep Cover

    ...refuse Social Security and Medicare payments when he's eligible on principle alone. And, swell guy that he is, will completely bankroll his parents' retirement, not to mention wipe their asses and feed them when they're old and gray. No? Didn't think so. Idiot.

  • June 11, 2006, 11:56 p.m. CST

    Ahok0 needs to come out of that closet he's in...

    by ErnieAnderson

    along with R Kelly, Tom Cruise and John Travolta. Viva la revoluccion!

  • June 11, 2006, 11:57 p.m. CST

    It's all about the Hamiltons baby!!

    by DoctorWho?

  • June 12, 2006, 12:08 a.m. CST

    where's the doc about Sandy Berger

    by Sir Loin

    The man stuffed documents from the National Archive in his PANTS fer cryin' out loud...

  • June 12, 2006, 12:08 a.m. CST

    Ashok0 Just Slapped My Ass.

    by Saluki

    That is all.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:12 a.m. CST

    I stuffed something down my pants...

    by ErnieAnderson

    and I think it was a TV dinner. It's really cold. And it's making me uncomfortable.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:16 a.m. CST

    Republicans Don't Make Docs

    by Saluki

    So stop asking for them. Unless it is a cheap direct-to-video response to a better theatrical doc, it ain't happening. Otherwise, they are just making cheap homoerotic actions flicks. That's about where their concept of art begins and ends, really. See: Red Scorpion, brought to you by DeLay's partner in crime. Not even fuckin' kidding here folks.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:19 a.m. CST

    For more analysis of the indictments, go to:

    by Vegas

    www.clownpenis.fart

  • June 12, 2006, 12:32 a.m. CST

    Panterasucks...

    by ErnieAnderson

    Do you keep that white dress and hood of yours in your closet, or do you hide it? Your eagerness to mention the skin color of your opposition kinda gives away the whole racist thing. On the plus side, you can probably openly listen to your Prussian Blue CDs now.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:33 a.m. CST

    Let's face facts...

    by ErnieAnderson

    The Republican Party no longer believes in anything its membership does. Over 70% of GOP voters polled say they're pro-choice and yet the pro-life minority controls the party platform. Republicans are allegedly for smaller government, and yet our illustrious Idiot In Chief has inflated government spending more than any president in US history. And, that whole personal freedoms thing? Well, that went out with the Patriot Act. The Republican Party is not only broken, it's become utterly dysfunctional and irrelevant. If not for the corporate millions flowing into their ever-open hands, the GOP would implode on itself and cease to be a concern.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:42 a.m. CST

    re: Sir Loin

    by mattw

    As I've stated, if you want a documentary about Berger or any other Democrat, go make one. This has nothing to do with the movie, Delay's career or the facts of his arrest. If the "Oh yeah, well (Name Of Democrat) sucks, too!" argument is all you can muster to defend your party, it may be time to rethink your politcal affiliation.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:47 a.m. CST

    yeah but Ernie...

    by samsquanch

    Who cares if Bush's pseudo-republicans are brainless sadists bent on world destruction? Gay marriage is icky.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:54 a.m. CST

    re: Pantera

    by mattw

    "I never said it was ok for republicans to be corrupt because the democrats are too.". I never said you did. "My point was that democrats don't get slammed by hollywood like republicans do. That is a fact." Please provide data supporting this fact. "I am right." Just stating this doesn't make it so. "The fact that you don't agree with me proves I am right." Uh, really? "I was refering to hollywood not making a Bio about Jefferson and why, not me." Sorry, I don't understand what you are attempting to say here. "Grow the hell up." I apologize. Expecting you to use facts in your argument was quite immature indeed. "Tool." An ad hominem argument. Always the sign of true intellect.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:55 a.m. CST

    Gay marriage...

    by ErnieAnderson

    would be OK if it were between Carmen Electra and Halle Berry. And the ceremony were held in a wading pool full of grape Jell-O. Yes, I think the American people could get behind that.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:58 a.m. CST

    The least racist person here...

    by ErnieAnderson

    wouldn't be referring to people as "black". Nice try. Also, if you're looking for the worst presidents of the 20th Century, you might wanna look at Hoover or Coolidge. That education thing is a bitch, isn't it?

  • June 12, 2006, 1:03 a.m. CST

    Let's talk about terrorists...

    by ErnieAnderson

    Did you know that there are active terror cells in the US that have been operating for DECADES? And they're not Islamic, either. They're RIGHT WING NUTJOBS like Eric Robert Rudolph, James Kopp, Timothy McVeigh and his buddies (the investigation of the OKC bombing was RE-OPENED this year), etc. Why doesn't our "tough on terror" president go after them? BECAUSE THEY'RE HIS VOTER BASE. Sorry, panterasucks. Your favorite band blows, and so does your political party. Try again.

  • June 12, 2006, 1:13 a.m. CST

    Political Correctness

    by ErnieAnderson

    has NOTHING to do with the fact that you're a racist. The color of one's skin doesn't make someone any less American than anyone else. So, you tagging them with the qualifier "black" means that you're excluding them from your definition of "American." It's terrorist-sympathizing anti-American assholes like you that create the myth of the "Ugly American" that's so prevalent worldwide. Thankfully, the majority of us are better than that.

  • June 12, 2006, 1:16 a.m. CST

    the people who complain about political correctness

    by slappy jones

    are generally angry white men who are pissed off that the world won;t put up with them calling black people niggers and gay people faggots anymore.

  • June 12, 2006, 1:31 a.m. CST

    Oklahoma City

    by ErnieAnderson

    Sadly, Panterasucks, you do need to do some research. Timothy McVeigh, and ALL of his accomplices, were Right Wing extremists. They were FUNDED by Right Wing extremists. And they attacked the Murrah Federal Building because they were OPPOSED to the Federal government, including the president at the time (your villified and hated Clinton). They blamed Clinton and his administration for Ruby Ridge, and wanted to strike a blow for Right Wing assholes everywhere. But, once again. Nice try. Do feel free to try again and make yourself look even less intelligent. As to black being a color...black people aren't black. They are sorta brownish. So, you're wrong again. Do you wonder why you keep getting banned, what with all the hate speech and vitriol you keep spewing? Perhaps if you actually had paid attention in class instead of playing with your one-eyed warrior, you might not come off as an ignorant moron.

  • June 12, 2006, 1:44 a.m. CST

    How about a film about Pelosi?

    by Darth_Inedible

    The irony is that Nancy Pelosi got caught and fined for doing the same thing Delay did, but she has gotten off scott free. The irony is that the Dems have gerrymandered California far worse than the Reps have Texas, but this has recieved only a fraction of the outrage.

  • June 12, 2006, 1:50 a.m. CST

    Nancy Pelosi

    by ErnieAnderson

    Get off your ass and make the documentary, Darth_Inedible. No one's stopping you. If you have the evidence, get it out there. You'll be doing the country a favor.

  • June 12, 2006, 1:52 a.m. CST

    Ernie you tard Oklahoma city was payback for Waco

    by Darth_Inedible

    Clinton wasn't even in office during Ruby Ridge. 80 men women and children were grilled alive by Clinton and his tanks and bulldozers. Just imagine for a second if Bush ever did something that stupid and evil, like firebombing a Peta compound or something. He certainly wouldn't have gotten off as easily as old slick Willy did.

  • June 12, 2006, 1:56 a.m. CST

    There you go again, idiot...

    by ErnieAnderson

    I've never once used the term "African American". It's just as racist as "black." Nice try. As I pointed out to your worthless racist ass, they ARE Americans. And simply that. Conspiracy theories are great and all, but the EVIDENCE about OKC proved that it was a Right Wing plot. Just like James Kopp was a Right Wing terrorist. As was Eric Robert Rudolph. And all those good Southern folk who gave him aid and comfort...? THEY'RE TERRORIST SYMPATHIZERS WHO WON'T BE PROSECUTED BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION BECAUSE THEY'RE HIS VOTER BASE!!! Just because you're uneducated, racist and ignorant doesn't make the facts any less true.

  • June 12, 2006, 1:59 a.m. CST

    OKC and Ruby Ridge

    by ErnieAnderson

    Actually, in McVeigh's correspondence that was used as evicence, McVeigh frequently referred to Ruby Ridge. I hope you and Panterasucks sleep well at night with THE TURNER DIARIES tucked under your pillow...

  • June 12, 2006, 2:05 a.m. CST

    Conspiracy videos aside...

    by ErnieAnderson

    If you watch the footage of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, the fire starts ALL OVER THE BUILDING. Not just where the tank breaks through the wall. And it spreads like there's an accelerant involved. I suppose the guv'ment snuck in and planted that, huh? They must have sent in special ATF ninjas! Yeah, that's it!

  • June 12, 2006, 2:13 a.m. CST

    "always look on the bright side of life"...

    by samsquanch

    *whistles*

  • June 12, 2006, 4:13 a.m. CST

    Darth_Inedible - How about a film about Pelosi?

    by SlackAttack

    Sources please. What did she do and when did she get away with it? And even if she did something and got away with it, does it make Delay did right? I've about had enough of Repubs trying to avoid talking about the myriad of scandals that plague their party by saying "well this is what Clinton (et al.) did." Take some responsiblility, be a grown up and have the balls to say "What Delay (or Ambramoff or Libby or take you frickin pick) did was wrong and as a Republican I am ashamed of what he did."

  • June 12, 2006, 4:16 a.m. CST

    Wow

    by Charles Martel

    The pseud-political and pseudo-pscyhological b.s. sure pilesup fast and furious around here, doesn't it? "Oh, because you said 'black,' you're racist." You know something, ErnieAnderson, when you refer to all whites as "European Americans," I'll believe you're not racist. (Ask someone from Afica if they believe the entire continent is one race). Man, the are some stupid people in this worl. First off, this is obviously an anti-DeLay film. He hasn't been convicted o' shyte, and all but one of the charges have been summarily dismissed (which means, as a lawyer, there was NO legal foundation for ever bringing them in the first place). DeLay may be slimey, but no worse than any other politician. And definately no worse than most in TX. Doesn't make what he did right - but let's not fool ourselves. He was the best thing for the dems to focus on since Jefferson was caught with $90 thousand of the bribe money, by the serial numbers, in his fridge. Hasn't been charged yet, but he will. Politicians, in general, suck. Left and right. NO one is immune - not even the kumbayah left. Also, Ernie, as one of your own compatriots pointed out, the investigation has been reopened - not because of the eeeeevil "right-wingers" (that Clinton illegally wiretapped - so much for the 4th Amendment "outrage" - during the 90's) but because of the legitimate claims of some individuals regarding sighted persons of middle-eastern descent in the are during the OK City bombing. May turn out to be nothing; however, there are enough links to make it workth exploring. And, for the gentleman who claimed the OK City bombing was "financed" by "right-wing" groups, think again. According to the official government investigation, at the time, it was the lone-wolf(ves) theory - no outside financing or backing. ANd why didn't your precious "left-wingers" do anything about al Qaeda after the '93 WTC bombings? Back off the "right-wing plot" BS. That's just what it is. Plus, Nazis aren't right wing (read FA Hayek, joker). If McVeigh was a "nazi," then he was only an idiot, NOT "right-wing."

  • June 12, 2006, 4:51 a.m. CST

    I love political talkbacks! It reveals the hate is us!

    by Swarmy

    Reading through the white hot hatred that spews forth when talkbacks go political make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  • June 12, 2006, 5:18 a.m. CST

    Nazis weren't right wing?? Bwahahahahaha.

    by Cameron1

    Now come one, is someone really trying to argue that fascism is a left wing ideology? The economic similarities between Communism and Nazi Germany are intriguing, but, Nazis believed "might *is* right" and that state control over industry was for the benefit of the state not the population.

  • June 12, 2006, 5:51 a.m. CST

    Charles Martel can you source some of your claims?

    by SlackAttack

    a)Just curious, I'd like to read more about your Oklohoma City Bombing allegations. b)THe moderate goverment of your anti-christ Clinton did do something - there is a blind Sheik sitting in Jail who was responsible for the first bombing. This is in addition to Project Bojinka being squashed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bojinka and other efforts (Brooklyn subway bombings prevented, etc.) I'll turn the question back on you-- has anyone been caught other than the schizophrenic Moussaoui, the "Shemp" of Al Queda for the 2001 attacks? 1993 is History. What is THIS administraton doing now to prosuecute the persons involved in the attacks (read 911 commision reports: 'Baudi Ababia')? YES Zarquawi is dead.. after 3 confirmed chances to kill him(and how many countless dead?) dating before the war in March 2004, so stated by the WALL STREET JOURNAL. Had they killed Zarquawi and his cronnies before the invasion, oops no case for a war. DARN. Again. I'll restate my request. Please site your sources and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for what your part has done. (and I'm assuming your Rebublican, please correct me if I'm wrong).

  • June 12, 2006, 6:44 a.m. CST

    ernie anderson, you are one crazy fuck

    by Windowlicker74

    Whats it with americans and their issues regarding race? call a person black your a racist?? that one fucked up worldview. you should come off your mountain and mingle with people for awile, When you call a person white you a racist too then? lets refer to eachother as brothers and sisters and live in peace together haha....!!!??oops! no, sister will refer to a female person, that would be sexist right? lets call each other "beings" and everything will be allright. amen

  • June 12, 2006, 7:13 a.m. CST

    I get the feeling

    by stvnhthr

    I get the feeling that this film is showing the corrupiton of politicians in general, no one is foolish enought to think their own political party of choice is blameless. Man ruling man always creates problems and shows the fallen nature of the human heart.

  • June 12, 2006, 7:49 a.m. CST

    Republican response?

    by Darksider

    Sorry, but no. They're too busy fucking up the Constitution, the war on terror, the economy, health care, taxing the poor over the rich, being xenophobic, fighting for oil, guns, cigarettes, rich lobbyists, and Ann Coulter. Oh, yeah, since Tom Delay cut all the art money, all of their filmmakers are stuck with their accounting jobs.

  • June 12, 2006, 8:05 a.m. CST

    Hey, Panterarocks...

    by John Maddening

    ...since you claimed that Clinton was responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing, and the website you cited said that the September 11 attacks were likely to be controlled demolitions by the same group that attacked the Murrah Building, does that Make GWB responsible for that debacle?

  • June 12, 2006, 9:38 a.m. CST

    BRIAN: Are you the Judean People's Front?

    by samsquanch

    REG: Fuck off! BRIAN: What? REG: Judean People's Front. We're the People's Front of Judea! Judean People's Front. Cawk. FRANCIS: Wankers. BRIAN: Can I... join your group? REG: No. Piss off. BRIAN: I didn't want to sell this stuff. It's only a job. I hate the Romans as much as anybody. PEOPLE'S FRONT OF JUDEA: Shhhh. Shhhh. Shhh. Shh. Shhhh. REG: Schtum. JUDITH: Are you sure? BRIAN: Oh, dead sure. I hate the Romans already. REG: Listen. If you really wanted to join the P.F.J., you'd have to really hate the Romans. BRIAN: I do! REG: Oh, yeah? How much? BRIAN: A lot! REG: Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the Romans are the fucking Judean People's Front. P.F.J.: Yeah... JUDITH: Splitters. P.F.J.: Splitters... FRANCIS: And the Judean Popular People's Front. P.F.J.: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Splitters. Splitters... LORETTA: And the People's Front of Judea.

  • June 12, 2006, 10:38 a.m. CST

    "objective"?

    by Zombie Carnifex

    Like Fox News? What in the world is objective? That's just semantics. Some asses still think Hitler was da bomb while piss poor farmers vote for ownership societies while recieving subsidies. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

  • June 12, 2006, 10:45 a.m. CST

    And somewhere, Tom Delay is laughing.

    by cookylamoo

    No wonder our leaders love us. One movie about a corrupt congressman and it's like the "Monsters are Due on Maple Street". We start destroying each other.

  • June 12, 2006, 10:46 a.m. CST

    Pantera...

    by TELF

    What's all this "Hollywood" nonsense to which you refer? This doco was made by Texans, about Texans and, to an extent, for Texans. Sure there are lots of liberal minded films made in Hollywood, but there are arguably just as many studio movies that tacitly promote and conform to traditional conservative values. But to act all shocked and upset that a bunch of artists and entertainers would congregate in a single industrial center and create work that reflected their values just seems a bit silly.

  • June 12, 2006, 11:22 a.m. CST

    Panterarocks Greatest Hits

    by Shan

    http://nitti.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=22248 ------------------- So who was the biggest villain in the Enron scandal? Was it Ken Lay? Jeffrey Skilling? Or was it the man who made "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room"?

  • June 12, 2006, 11:36 a.m. CST

    DeLay is a piece of shit crook

    by Doctor_Sin

    Even the staunchest Republican has *got* to see it, too.

  • June 12, 2006, 11:59 a.m. CST

    Show me someone who...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...considers fascists and nazis to be left-wing, and I'll show you an ultra-conservative whose sole goal is to remove any type of association between right-wing politics and tyranny. The reason being that it "proves" right-wingers can never be said to be totalitarian, thus freeing them to move as far to the right as they please and still claim to be democratic.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:13 p.m. CST

    So you think blacks protesting about the word nigger...

    by Cameron1

    are moronic illiterate dumbasses, anchorite? Oh dear, you'd got more or less reasonable recently. I agreed with you totally about x3 What's the matter? Feeling a touch lonely now people aren't berrating you? Stop being an attention seeking whore anchorite. Aw hell, be one if you want. Just don't be a racist prick, even if you are trying (unsuccessfully) to prove some ridiculous point.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:18 p.m. CST

    greatone, you ignorant slut

    by Cameron1

    "Fascists and Nazis are considered to be left-wing because their ultimate goal was a society based upon socialism." Bwahahahahahahahaha. You need to read up on what a socilaist is, what a fascist is, what a nazi is and, you could probably do with reading up on what liberals are too. But maybe you just posted that stupidity from NRO and decided not to mention it, you have a nice habit of doing that sort of stuff. Oh and DocPazuzu, Martel was the guy trying to say Muslims who didn't kill infidels left right and centre weren't *real* muslims, on a previous talkback, so yeh, extreme right wing crackpot he is then.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Wrong, GreatOne2

    by DocPazuzu

    Fascists (nazis included) seek to eliminate class warfare -- not by the victory of the working class but by everyone in his or her place working together in a hierarchy for the "good" of the Volk or Nation. Fascists had their roots in a combination of heretical socialists and right-wing WW1 veterans. Not in one instance have fascists been able to rule without coalitions with conservative elements in their societies and with the support of big business. Furthermore, once in power, they did NOTHING to lessen the power of big business despite loud declarations of the evils of an unrestricted market. In fact, fascist governments supported big corporations and oppressive employment conditions as long as the companies were seen as good for the Nation. Fascists have always come to power through a broad base of support which cuts across all class lines, but they were, are, and always have been, a right-wing populist movement. Thanks for proving my point with your ridiculous assertion that there have never been any right-wing dictatorships, by the way.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:25 p.m. CST

    Cameron1, he said niggardly, which is completely...

    by ExcaliburFfolkes

    ...different in meaning and origin from the racial epithet, nigger. Ironically, you proved anchorite's point.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:25 p.m. CST

    Cameron1

    by DocPazuzu

    Yeah, now all we need is for Thunderballs to come in here and tell us all again what a great guy Milosevic was.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:31 p.m. CST

    d'oh!!! Ok you got me.

    by Cameron1

    I little explanation is allowed I hope?? I read blacks and got as far as nigg and skipped to the next word, speed reading is a bad idea sometmes. Ah well I guess I fucked that up royally, apologies to anchorite - I guess you are being more reasonably lately..and I can still agree with you on x3.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:34 p.m. CST

    oh dear greatone...you got rather PWNT as they say

    by Cameron1

    Have a read of this if you will______ http://www.remember.org/guide/Facts.root.nazi.html ____ and then kindly shut the fuck up, there might be people dumb enough to be susceptible to your talkradio sponsored, revisionist bollocks.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:34 p.m. CST

    Wasn't this the plot to the Star Wars sequals?

    by Borgnine JR

    Spooky.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:38 p.m. CST

    I have to admit that banning the word niggardly.....

    by cookylamoo

    because it contains the n-word is like banning the word Wopping because it insults Italian Americans. Gees...rent a brain, folks.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:41 p.m. CST

    Wrong again, GreatOne2

    by DocPazuzu

    The non-national businesses which controlled the means of production in fascist societies were left unmolested as long as they didn't cause trouble. Fascists NEVER assumed control of the means of production to any greater extent because they didn't HAVE to. It was a marriage made in heaven -- the governments cracked down on labor unions, liberals and socialists, provided companies with slave labor and left the market free to do what it wanted. In return, the businesses supplied the Nation with what it needed.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:42 p.m. CST

    Or is it Whopping...same difference.

    by cookylamoo

    Or even Hebrew because is contains the word Hebe.

  • June 12, 2006, 12:46 p.m. CST

    Furthermore, GreatOne2...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...ALL fascist societies were of an extreme nationalist bent, but it took different forms based on the cultural particularities of the countries in question. The whole POINT of fascism is power by any means and through appealing to notions of culture, race and/or nation.

  • June 12, 2006, 1:13 p.m. CST

    Pantera

    by mattw

    "Well, to be honest I just did a word search for the Clinton/Oklahoma thing and I just posted the first url that came up." In other words, you look for facts to support your point of view after the fact, not form your point of view based on facts. From what I can gather, your all-encompassing political opinion is: "Here's a link."

  • June 12, 2006, 1:34 p.m. CST

    What the fuck does this movie have to do with race?

    by Vegas

    Also, as long as I'm asking questions that shouldn't need to be asked, may I add...BEAR FUCKER! DO YOU NEED ASSISTANCE?

  • June 12, 2006, 1:44 p.m. CST

    haven't read the other posts yet...

    by mocky_puppet

    ..i just hope that someone here will express their political opinion. i enjoy reading people's political opinions.

  • June 12, 2006, 1:45 p.m. CST

    Heheheh...

    by Nordling

    In the future Republicans will strap explosives to their chests and run into libraries to keep people from reading. Discuss.

  • June 12, 2006, 2 p.m. CST

    Democratic Documentaries

    by mattw

    People, the (supposed) lack of documentaries about Democrats does not prove hypocrisy. It simply proves that filmmakers thought there were more interesting stories to tell about Republican scandals (maybe because there are more lately). A question for those who've yelled "hypocrisy": Who is the hypocrite? The filmmakers who made documentaries about Republicans and didn't immediately after make one about Republicans? The people (including yourself) who've never made a documentary about Democrats? Yelling, "Oh yeah, well what about that asshole (Democrat name here)?" is a red herring argument, immature and shows a lack of understanding of any issue. (Oh, and mocky, hilarious post.)

  • June 12, 2006, 2:01 p.m. CST

    I meant

    by mattw

    "who made documentaries about Republicans and didn't immediately after make one about DEMOCRATS". You get the point.

  • June 12, 2006, 2:25 p.m. CST

    oh dear ,greatone

    by Cameron1

    You actually said said Nazism was Fascism with an extremely nationalistic bent. But ALL fascism has an extremely nationalistic bent not just Nazism. Also did you bother to read the link I posted? it's not from a partisan source and explains quite clearly why the Nazis were right wing and not left.

  • June 12, 2006, 2:49 p.m. CST

    oh dear ,greatone

    by Cameron1

    You actually said said Nazism was Fascism with an extremely nationalistic bent. But ALL fascism has an extremely nationalistic bent not just Nazism. Also did you bother to read the link I posted? it's not from a partisan source and explains quite clearly why the Nazis were right wing and not left.

  • June 12, 2006, 2:53 p.m. CST

    REG: They've bled us white, the bastards.

    by samsquanch

    They've taken everything we had, and not just from us, from our fathers, and from our fathers' fathers. LORETTA: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers. REG: Yeah. LORETTA: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers' fathers. REG: Yeah. All right, Stan. Don't labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return?! XERXES: The aqueduct? REG: What? XERXES: The aqueduct. REG: Oh. Yeah, yeah. They did give us that. Uh, that's true. Yeah. COMMANDO #3: And the sanitation. LORETTA: Oh, yeah, the sanitation, Reg. Remember what the city used to be like? REG: Yeah. All right. I'll grant you the aqueduct and the sanitation are two things that the Romans have done. MATTHIAS: And the roads. REG: Well, yeah. Obviously the roads. I mean, the roads go without saying, don't they? But apart from the sanitation, the aqueduct, and the roads-- COMMANDO: Irrigation. XERXES: Medicine. COMMANDOS: Huh? Heh? Huh... COMMANDO #2: Education. COMMANDOS: Ohh... REG: Yeah, yeah. All right. Fair enough. COMMANDO #1: And the wine. COMMANDOS: Oh, yes. Yeah... FRANCIS: Yeah. Yeah, that's something we'd really miss, Reg, if the Romans left. Huh. COMMANDO: Public baths. LORETTA: And it's safe to walk in the streets at night now, Reg. FRANCIS: Yeah, they certainly know how to keep order. Let's face it. They're the only ones who could in a place like this. COMMANDOS: Hehh, heh. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh.

  • June 12, 2006, 3:11 p.m. CST

    Everyone uses the N-Word

    by cookylamoo

    Blacks use the N-Word on each other. Whites use it behind black people's backs. It's actually starting to have a new meaning as "lowly one" as in "I won this year's Apprentice and now I'm Donald Trump's N-Word."

  • June 12, 2006, 3:14 p.m. CST

    I whisper the N-word nightly

    by Doctor_Sin

    while that bootylicious stripper works her ass into my lap. Ok, so I don't. This TB is out of control. What the hell has Tom DeLay got to do with niggas, homophobes and Nazism? It sounds like the set up for a really lame joke.

  • June 12, 2006, 3:26 p.m. CST

    GreatOne2...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...an alliance between a fascist government and big business is NOT control. It's a symbiosis. Conservatives supported fascists because they saw them as the only thing strong enough to prevent a socialist revolution in their countries where liberal democracy had failed. Once the socialists had been beaten down, big businesses expanded their cooperation with the fascist regimes for the very same reasons I mentioned earlier. If fascists had truly been left-wing they would have nationalized all means of production and made the working class the ruling elite of the Nation. The only way they were "left-wing" was in the way they provided generous handouts to citizens. This, however, was only extended to the approved racial/ethnic/cultural members of society. Everyone else was treated like dirt and slave labor for big business. You would do well to read up on the subject.

  • June 12, 2006, 3:32 p.m. CST

    Are you serious, GreatOne2?

    by DocPazuzu

    Name one right-wing dictatorship? Well, we could start with Franco's Spain, Antonescu's Romania, Salazar's Portugal, Batista's Cuba and a whole host of Latin American juntas. I can't wait to hear your spin on that.

  • June 12, 2006, 4:31 p.m. CST

    luscious, cut the generalised liberal bashing out.

    by Cameron1

    Makes you look like an ass. Anyway, I'd like to get a look at where you got your stats from. Cheers. Other thing is, that 37 million people live in poverty in the US. Is it really just ALL their own fault? I mean I'm a social worker in DC and I can tell you that there are any number of conditions which affect how peoples lives go and that those conditions are not solely the person's fault. If you want to take school districts for example, poor areas have shitty schools, overworked teachers, very poor equipment etc etc, and the pupils from those schools sit all the same exams as everyone else. If you were born in a poor neighbourhood and went to a poor school, your parent(it's very often just the one)has to work 2 jobs to put food on the table and clothes on your back so theres barely time for them to sit down and help with your homework or offer support, how much of a disadvantage is that compared to someone living in an affluent suburb with 2 supportive parents and great schools? Is that the childs fault? Should the child lose out because of the parent? Is that something you think is morally acceptable? Now I agree personal responsibility is of the utmost imporatnce, but do you know where that comes from?? High self esteem is where it comes from. So yes it is important a child has self confidence, because they could be incredibly talented but without confidence, without self worth it doesn't matter. Of course results matter, I have no idea why you think only intent metters to liberals, Democrat party members you might have a point about though. People are poor for myriad reason, to not care about them becuase you think it's *all* their own fault is selfish and immoral. If someone contracts a debilitating disease and has poor medical insurance they can't work, they're savings go on the treatment they die and leave a family with no resources is it just thier own fault, and should we not help them?

  • June 12, 2006, 4:31 p.m. CST

    re: The Misguided Liberal Mind Set

    by mattw

    Luscious, I forwarded your post to the makers of the Tom DeLay documentary. They say it invalidates all of the facts in the movie. Good work.

  • June 12, 2006, 4:41 p.m. CST

    Paris Hilton

    by Zombie Carnifex

    proves every one of Luscious' points. Her choices have everything to do with her wealth in life. I only hope we can continue to produce wise leaders like her for the sake of the U.S. and its future.

  • June 12, 2006, 4:56 p.m. CST

    here's a couple of links for luscious...

    by Lord Asriel

    do they affect your views on the porr at all? http://www.usccb.org/cchd/povertyusa/povfacts.htm __________ http://www.osjspm.org/101_poverty.htm#10

  • June 12, 2006, 6:14 p.m. CST

    I Just Hope Interest In Political Docu's Translates...

    by ZombieSolutions

    into people ACTUALLY VOTING and/or getting involved in changing things around; there is no more time for complacency; its all well and good to watch a movie, but the shit ain't gonna stop for real until we use our poltical power as a democracy to bring down these criminal fascist fucks and make sure they never come back; regardless of your party or where you lean, our country is on the brink of collapse; if you wanna make a change and you really, really care (and aren't just chanting soundbites back and forth), get out there, get involved, and, at the very least VOTE FOR CHANGE... thank you...

  • June 12, 2006, 6:41 p.m. CST

    Paris Hilton

    by McCroskey

    What exactly is she supposed to prove in this debate? Is it to say that some are born with a silver spoon in their mouth, and are generally worthless? Stupid spoiled whores perhaps? Well, I don't think anyone would deny that, but I doubt that she's representative of all trust-fund babies. It was sort of funny how during last week's debate over repealing the Estate/Death tax, one of the Democrat Senators (Lautenberg???) used three examples of rich people who would benefit from the tax's repeal, and sure enough, one of them was Paris Hilton! The othe two were the Cheney family and the recently retired chairman of Exxon-Mobil, so I guess the Senator was going for worthless and evil. But anyway, so what if Paril Hilton is worthless, and a sign of all that is wrong with our celeb-obsessed society. Someone in her family's past did work hard to build their fortune, and if that person wants to leave it to his family, then so be it. Its his choice. Even if there should be an inheritance tax, it shouldn't ever rise to the ridiculous level of 55%.

  • June 12, 2006, 6:43 p.m. CST

    political correctness -- slappy jones

    by McCroskey

    Your analysis of political correctness is of course complete nonsense. If making slurs unacceptable was the limit of PC's effect, then noone would complain, but in truth it goes further than that. It makes all sorts of discussions almost off-limits, like varying crime rates among different racial/ethnic groups. It can, for example, torpedo the reign of the President of the richest and most prestigious university in the nation, as it did to Lawrence Summers of Harvard when he dared to say something true when trying to explain the lack of women in the highest levels of math/science. It can almost cripple debates over things like immigration, and limit discussion over such a complex issue to nauseating platitudes. Political Correctness = poison for open, reasoned, rational discourse.

  • June 12, 2006, 6:56 p.m. CST

    Lucious is one of those people

    by cookylamoo

    who should have thier ID taken away, their credit balance erased, their credit info expunged and then dropped on a street corner naked in Detroit. Then we could do a reality show about how they work their way back out of poverty by parlaying minimum wage jobs and no capital into a new SUV. Do not turn to crime, do not pass go.

  • June 12, 2006, 7:07 p.m. CST

    Cameron reallly DOES=jackass

    by DoctorWho?

    I was gonna sit this one out frankly...these political talkbacks can be tiresome...but skimming thru and reading that stat of "37 million people living in poverty" crap killed me. Poverty in the U.S is not the same as poverty level, say in Guatemala. $29,000 a year in the U.S is considered "poverty level". So calm your bleeding heart down with your visions of hungry kids with no shoes in America. It doesn't exist like that.

  • June 12, 2006, 7:08 p.m. CST

    Btw, Luscious-868 pretty much nailed it.

    by DoctorWho?

    Thanks for saving me the typing dude!

  • June 12, 2006, 7:26 p.m. CST

    Doesn't exist like that?

    by samsquanch

    Have you ever left Connecticut?

  • June 12, 2006, 7:28 p.m. CST

    I guess every American in the 1930's

    by samsquanch

    was one lazy piece of shit.

  • June 12, 2006, 7:32 p.m. CST

    BRIAN: Please! Please help me! I've got to get--

    by samsquanch

    SIMON: Mm. [whump] Oh, my foot! Oh! BRIAN: Shhhh. SIMON: Oh, damn, damn, damn! BRIAN: Well, I'm sorry. Shhh. SIMON: Oh, damn, damn, and blast it! BRIAN: I'm sorry. Shhhh! SIMON: Don't you 'shhhh' me. Eighteen years of total silence, and you 'shhhh' me! BRIAN: What? SIMON: I've kept my vow for eighteen years. Not a single, recognisable, articulate sound has passed my lips. BRIAN: Oh, please. Could you be quiet for another five minutes? SIMON: Oh, it doesn't matter now. I might as well enjoy myself. The times in the last eighteen years I've wanted to shout and sing and... BRIAN: Shhhh. SIMON: ...scream my name out! Oh, I'm alive! BRIAN: Shhh. SIMON: Hava Nagila! BRIAN: Shhh. SIMON: Hava Nagila! Hava Nagila, ha ha ha! Look out. Oh, I'm alive! I'm alive! Hello birds! Hello trees! I'm alive! Get off. I'm alive! Hava Nagila. Hava the relinq--

  • June 12, 2006, 8:02 p.m. CST

    LOL dstrbo1...

    by Cameron1

    DoctorWho has had one too many trips in the Tardis, it's addled his brain. I see poverty everyday. People who can't afford to eat, people with clothes from good will charities. Check out the stats for yourself Doctor, read the links that Asriel posted lower down. Then comeback and talk about what poverty is or isn't. What exists in America and what doesn't. I guess you live in a nice comfy house or apartment, and haven't ever really experienced being really poor Doctor, your obvious lack of knowledge on the subject betrays you. Just a molly-coddled fantasist. Luckily I haven't ever been dirt poor but like I say I work with people who are...yes they are better of than kids in Guatemala, what does that matter? They are much much worse of than kids from plenty of other countries. Did you know we have higher infant mortality rates than Cuba or Slovenia or 34 other countries? It may be an uncomfortable *fact* for you to acknowledge Doctor but look here: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/definitions.html and here ____ http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/poverty04/pov04hi.html ____ Are they acceptable levels for you Doctor? Yes they maybe better than countries in the developing world...big wow. We are in the first world and idiots like you still can't see what the problem is. Here's another link for you to read over or ignore in favour not having to care: http://www.nccp.org/pub_cpt05b.html ______

  • June 12, 2006, 8:18 p.m. CST

    Here's a crazy concept that'll blow your mind...

    by samsquanch

    "Third World" conditions CAN EXIST within the boundaries of a "First World" Nation. NO!! Also, just in case your mind isn't sufficiently blown by that little factoid- No one who knows me considers me a "liberal", at all. Is that INSANE, or what?!

  • June 12, 2006, 10:17 p.m. CST

    Cameron sure does love his links

    by DoctorWho?

    First of all, don't presume to "enlighten" me by cut and pasted links of the "real world" via internet!I have have here in front of me couple of links with photos of hospitals in Cuba with rats in the hallways and unclean septic tanks that look like something in a truck stop. I don't post links to make my point or send the people to do their "homework"... and you would still chose to believe Cuba is a tropical paradise anyway! And yes, I have been in poverty a couple times, and now ...I'm doin all right for my family. BUT WAIT! HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? HOW DID HE THWART THE SAVAGE FORCES CONSPIRING AGAINST HIM TO KEEP HIM OPPRESSED AND DOWN TRODDEN? That's what you believe right? There's poverty because people are forced there against their will RIGHT? You mentioned"...People who can't afford to eat, people with clothes from good will charities"...GEE, NO SHIT??? I'm one of those people donating those clothes along with food, books ,toys etc. to people in need. Dude, just because you have compassion doesn't mean you have an answer. You say "...idiots like you still can't see what the problem is". As if YOU have the answer. I have my ideas about what they might be, but I sure know what it ISN'T. Just because somebody MAKES a lot of money, doesn' mean it TAKES anything away from you! People like you think money, success,opportunity etc...are FINITE things...you either get them, or SOMEONE ELSE will. Therefore, in your thinking it's always tha have's and the have nots. The victim and the perpetrator. The corrupt and the innocent. And yes...my house IS comfy...thank you.

  • June 12, 2006, 11:18 p.m. CST

    hey, not to be too much of a wet blanket or anything...

    by samsquanch

    but the reason why we live such a rich life here is because millions of people virtually everywhere else on the planet live in miserable shit. It's not that wealth is finite, it's that the human capacity for equality and generosity are. Again- not a partisan statement. I'm sure folks on both side of the political spectrum will agree with this, because it's so fucking obvious.

  • June 12, 2006, 11:23 p.m. CST

    them???

    by ErnieAnderson

    Calling people with darker skin than you "them" just means that you're a racist, Panterasucks. As to the name Spermy Anderson, I thought that was the top of your mom's head last night. Was she happy with the nickel tip?

  • June 12, 2006, 11:39 p.m. CST

    CharlesMartel...

    by ErnieAnderson

    I don't use the term "African American". I don't use the term "European American". If you're an American, you're an American. It's as simple as that. It's racist idealogues like yourself who have to classify people. Try evolving.

  • June 12, 2006, 11:52 p.m. CST

    By referring to other people as "them"...

    by ErnieAnderson

    you're EXCLUDING them. Which means that you don't consider them to be, like you, an American. That, sir, makes you a bigot. Congratulations. You've proven your ignorance again. I am glad that you enjoyed sticking your dick in a corpse last night, though.

  • June 12, 2006, 11:59 p.m. CST

    Have I mentioned...

    by ErnieAnderson

    www.dorkdejour.blogspot.com ???

  • June 13, 2006, 12:03 a.m. CST

    Dstrbo 1 !

    by DoctorWho?

    "...the human capacity for equality and generosity are finite??" NO WAY! Look at Mother Teresa! Plus countless people everyday sacrificing time and money everyday to help others. Our capacity for equality and generosity are truly INFINITE...it's just that our capacity for greed and cruelty is INFINITE. It's all about the choices we make! I'll stop here before I go into full Yoda mode.

  • June 13, 2006, 12:11 a.m. CST

    Doctor- I hear you, but-

    by samsquanch

    you missed my point. It doesn't strengthen your position to willfully ignore the obvious, or worse, twist it to serve your argument. Isn't that what everyone is always accusing the other side of doing? You mentioned the poor in Guatemala. Why is their poverty legitimate, and homegrown poverty the result of inherent laziness or democratic failures? Is that what you think of your own countrymen? Or is the third world predicament legitimate? Maybe your theory of poverty-as-karmic-retribution applies to your entire world-view, maybe the child slaves in Asia that manufactured your shoes (and mine) deserve to have chronic back pain by the time they're ten. Now, before you start spinning like a top and accusing me of being a bleeding heart, think for a minute that I'm the one who's accepted this reality and doesn't do anything about it, while you're the one desperately trying to discredit this theory, presumably because it's a horrible one to face. We're the Eloi. The rest of the world are the Morlocks. Get used to it, and get off your partisan high horse. The whole right/left mascot drone mentality is so last century.

  • June 13, 2006, 12:12 a.m. CST

    dammit,

    by samsquanch

    And all I wanted to do in this silly talkback is post "Life of Brian" quotes. thanks a lot.

  • June 13, 2006, 12:15 a.m. CST

    panterarocks

    by Trader Groucho 2

    The primary issue surrounding the entire William Jefferson situation is that the FBI raided his office, an unprecedented act in the history of this nation. If a congressman is engaged in wrongdoing, it is the responsibility and duty of congress to deal with the person, which is why, in a rather rare show of solidarity, Hastert AND Pelosi took the Bush administration to task. If you read into the Jefferson case, it was a sting operation, which, given the extremely partisan climate in the Beltway these days, is suspect in and of itself. BTW the people behind the DeLay doc are miles and miles from the Hollywood mainstream. And you know, if you think Pelosi or W. Jefferson deserve to be doc'ed, there's great inexpensive HD prosumer gear out there.....

  • June 13, 2006, 12:18 a.m. CST

    If we're the Eloi...

    by ErnieAnderson

    Does that mean we're tasty Morlock barbecue sometime in the future? Because that'll totally suck.

  • June 13, 2006, 12:20 a.m. CST

    I'm now making a documentary...

    by ErnieAnderson

    about the hideous Morlock majority that want to eat us. I'm planning on interviewing some Morlocks in their cave this evening. Don't wait up...

  • June 13, 2006, 12:22 a.m. CST

    well Ernie, there has been a backlash, hasn't there?

    by samsquanch

    know what I mean?

  • June 13, 2006, 12:23 a.m. CST

    ernie anderson - Waco/Koresh situation

    by Trader Groucho 2

    David Koresh had explosives and flammables stowed throughout the compound, something the Feds did not know when they started to take the building. Only the most passive-aggressive logic can be used to try and blame Janet Reno for that building going up. Koresh did it to himself - and lamentably, his followers, including at least one underaged girl he "married".

  • June 13, 2006, 12:32 a.m. CST

    Borat Movie Trailer!!

    by OB Wan Afghani

    Borat Movie Trailer!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOTpfkfS-2k

  • June 13, 2006, 12:36 a.m. CST

    finally! something of real interest!

    by samsquanch

    see you dorks at the Borat site...

  • June 13, 2006, 12:38 a.m. CST

    Preachin' to the choir, Groucho...

    by ErnieAnderson

    I was addressing that comment to the ignorant conspiracy junkie who was alleging that Clinton had ordered them barbecued. Speaking of barbecue...I smell really good over an open flame!

  • June 13, 2006, 12:52 a.m. CST

    Panterasucks

    by ErnieAnderson

    You can have my sister for half price. I warn you, though...she's dog-faced.

  • June 13, 2006, 12:53 a.m. CST

    wow, I really pissed you off with that Morlock allegory

    by samsquanch

    huh? Don't be too mad. I didn't intend it to be a literal description of the majority of human beings that suffer so that we can live in luxury. I wasn't "excluding" them, or reducing them to a category, I was making use of a metaphor. Ok?

  • June 13, 2006, 12:53 a.m. CST

    Dstrbo 1 !

    by DoctorWho?

    "Why is their poverty legitimate, and homegrown poverty the result of inherent laziness or democratic failures?" ...Never said that. Never implied it either.

  • June 13, 2006, 1 a.m. CST

    ok, Doc, but

    by samsquanch

    "Just because somebody MAKES a lot of money, doesn' mean it TAKES anything away from you! People like you think money, success,opportunity etc...are FINITE things...you either get them, or SOMEONE ELSE will. Therefore, in your thinking it's always tha have's and the have nots. The victim and the perpetrator. The corrupt and the innocent." I'm sorry, maybe I'm being too harsh, but this really sounds like someone who believes in the Right's message that poverty is the fault of the poor. There was some talk along those lines way back in the talkback, and maybe I lumped you in a bit unfairly, but it sure seemed like a fair assumption when you wrote this.

  • June 13, 2006, 1:05 a.m. CST

    I've met Janet Reno...

    by ErnieAnderson

    and it is my sincere belief that she is, in fact, a shaven Wookie.

  • June 13, 2006, 1:16 a.m. CST

    That's fair Dstrbo 1

    by DoctorWho?

    It's not that I believe in the Right's message that poverty is the fault of the poor...I just don't believe in the Left's message that poverty is the fault of the rich. There's ALOT of "in- between" there. I'm an optimist. I just don't believe poverty is a destination...static. Lots of people move up and down on the sliding scale of income and success...at least in this country where were alot more fortunate to have great opportunities. I'm sure you would agree.

  • June 13, 2006, 2:08 a.m. CST

    You know...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...Panterarocks-Nintendo-BroncoFan-Powermetal1-Landoasskissian, neither you nor homewrecker have been able to explain to me exactly WHY I would need more than one username. In your case, getting banned all the time, it makes sense. It would also make sense if I were constantly getting my ass handed to me in TB and needed to rally "support" from fake user IDs to make it look like I wasn't alone. As it is, I'm fully capable of defending myself and taking on hordes of loonies, trolls and asshats if I feel that it's warranted. Please explain to me once and for all what the point of multiple usernames would be -- and try not to fall back on homewrecker's "gay zionist hollywood mafia" argument or that it's a "DEMONcrap LIEberal" plot.

  • June 13, 2006, 3:30 a.m. CST

    I only like links when idiots like you Doctor...

    by Cameron1

    like posting ignorant unfounded statements about poverty. I'll quite posting them when you quit being such a reactionary twat and realise that deep poverty *does* exist in this country and it exists for people working 2 sometimes 3 jobs. When people are working two jobs at a time and still failing to earn enough to feed their families, it seems impossible to call them lazy or selfish. There seems to be a failure in the system, not the poor themselves. I'm sure you don't like reading links which refute your absurd claims that poverty "doesn't exist like that". I posted those links (did you read them by the way or just ingore the truth?)because you appeared very ignorant about poverty in the US, now you've said you've lived in poverty in (fyi that would be a family with four kids with an 19 grand income per year...and it's often much much less) That's not a socialist statement, that's a fact. in the US today welfare programs are being cut mercilessly, and it's those things which shift people from being poor to being in poverty. Did you know "Save The Children" actually works in some areas of the US? A charity that usually goes to places like Bangladesh is having to work in our own country, a country that is truly, massively. I don't choose to believe Cuba is a paradise, it's a hell hole for the most part...and that's the fucking point...they are a hell hole and they STILL have a lower infant mortality rate than the US...that's not right, it's not just cus some people are lazy (they wrok 2 jobs how are they lazy?) It's cus..well, take Tulsa for example. Tulsa has been devastated by job losses. Firms like WorldCom, Williams Energy and CitGo have closed or moved, costing the city about 24,000 jobs. Wal-Mart embodies the new American job market: low wages, few benefits. 45.8 million of us don't have medical insurance. The bottom 20 percent of earners take home the tiny figure of 3.4 percent of the national income whereas the top 20 percent take over home over half of it. I don't blame the rich exclusively I blame the current systems which sees large tax breaks for businesses and benefits being cut massively. You donate clothes, well good for you, but wouldn't you rather someone could work 2 jobs and not have to rely on your hand outs? Wouldn't that be a better system, where the poor can work long hours and earn enough to live without charity? I say idiots like you can't see what the problem is, because you claimed there really wasn't one earlier on. My solution? One thing would be to raise the minimum wage it worked wonders in the UK. Pay employees better and give them better benefits so they don't need charity. Now that's not the be all and end all, but people like you need to be made aware of the situation which you appear painfully naive too, and that is the first step to fixing any problem; awareness of it.

  • June 13, 2006, 4:09 a.m. CST

    Brilliant solutions Cameron1...

    by DoctorWho?

    Yes indeed "...Pay employees better" or "give them better benefits ". WOW. Why didn't I think of that! Sure, that hard working business owner working his ass off 70 hrs a week to support HIS family...yeah, he's got such deep pockets. He can afford to just give everyone one of his employees MORE benefits and big fat raises...but he's just holdin' out on em. He's a selfish, rich , greedy business man who wants it all for himself. Yeah, i see now...fuck him and HIS family, it's not like HE'S got bills to pay or food to buy or a mortage etc. Need I be any MORE facetious to get the point across??? Silly me..."just pay employees better and give them better benefits". Your a first class fool!

  • June 13, 2006, 4:15 a.m. CST

    Well, Panterarocks...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...seeing as how your posts all get banned along with your usernames, the only proof I can offer is that only one person at a time ever uses the truly churlish and infantile terms "LIEberal" and "DEMONcrat" (with the variations "DemonCRAP" and "DemocRAT") combined with a pathological urge to defend any conservative cause or person (witness Enron), a fixation on bodybuilding and the male physique and a frisky dose of insults involving bodily fluids. Circumstantial evidence? Sure, but in your case it's not exactly on par with decoding Windtalker transmissions. Since I have yet to be banned, all my posts remain. So, if I have indeed been trounced as many times as you say I have, finding proof of that shouldn't be that difficult for you.

  • June 13, 2006, 4:23 a.m. CST

    Well, Panterarocks...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...seeing as how your posts all get banned along with your usernames, the only proof I can offer is that only one person at a time ever uses the truly churlish and infantile terms "LIEberal" and "DEMONcrat" (with the variations "DemonCRAP" and "DemocRAT") combined with a pathological urge to defend any conservative cause or person (witness Enron), a fixation on bodybuilding and the male physique and a frisky dose of insults involving bodily fluids. Circumstantial evidence? Sure, but in your case it's not exactly on par with decoding Windtalker transmissions. Since I have yet to be banned, all my posts remain. So, if I have indeed been trounced as many times as you say I have, finding proof of that shouldn't be that difficult for you.

  • June 13, 2006, 4:24 a.m. CST

    Apologies to...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...the rest of the talkbackers for the double post.

  • June 13, 2006, 4:24 a.m. CST

    Hahahaha, I obviously touched a nerve.

    by Cameron1

    You think Walmart is struggling to make ends meet? You think they are having problems paying the mortagage?? You are clearly the first class fool. As I said before the top 20 percent of earners take home over half the national income, the bottom 20 percent take home just 3.4% of it. Can you see the clearly disparity with those figures? The fact is big business CAN afford to pay workers more. You facetious bullshit only goes to show you are really out of your depth on this whole issue, it's not suprising since you haven't read any links I posted have you? I mean if you have and are just ignoring them then fine,stick your head in the sand over things that don't concern you. But if you read them and still don't understand you are truly a beligerent ignorant cunt. Take your pick. What's your solution by the way? If you are sooo much smarter then all those people trying to make a difference what would you do? Cut taxes for businesses even more? Cut minimum wage so the businessman can live in a even nicer house and have a bigger car? Is that cool with you? Fuck the poor and give the already well off more money, cus y'know they spend on the poor...oh wait no, they spend it on themselves, they give it to large companies which pay their executives million and there workers 5.15 an hour (begrudgingly I might add) you think thats ok? That's an acceptable situation? That some people are starving and having to get water from springs cus the pump is broken? You are either a heartless cunt, or just far to enamoured with the rich to care about people in *real* danger. The business owner is working 70 hours a week is being handsomely rewarded, the employees is working 70 or more hours and STILL living in squalor. You are a true fool if you can't see how disgusting that situation is.

  • June 13, 2006, 5:01 a.m. CST

    Jarv

    by DocPazuzu

    I don't think TomBodet has multiple active accounts. I think he only uses one at a time like any sane person would. Panterarocks, on the other hand, has in at least one of his previous incarnations (Powermetal1) bragged about having stockpiled multiple identities for use whenever one gets banned. This whole paranoia thing started in a conspiracy theory-laden TB about 9-11 I think, where I made the mistake of frivolously accusing GingerTwit of adopting a new name to come to the aid of his much put-upon self. I was regrettably wrong in that case, but homewrecker hijacked the TB and started accusing me of being dozens of different people (without even the slightest bit of convincing evidence). Since then it has been his trademark schtick. If he actually believed that horseshit, he would have contacted the mods for proof of username/IP connections -- which he hasn't, as far as I know. In a forum full of really sad people, I still can't imagine anyone pathetic enough to sustain several identities in order to stage some sort of mass trolling enterprise. I don't even think the Scorched Planet assholes have the energy for it. It's basically turned into a way for severely outnumbered talkbackers to escape being collectively "pwnt" by claiming that all their adversaries are the same villain with different names.

  • June 13, 2006, 5:23 a.m. CST

    Powermetal1 was previously ForeverTJ right?

    by Shan

    Am I right about that?

  • June 13, 2006, 5:44 a.m. CST

    Yes...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...ForeverTJ was indeed one of his previous incarnations. I knew I had left out a name or two...

  • June 13, 2006, 8:04 a.m. CST

    Funny...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...Panterarocks admitted to being at least ONE of those names in a recent TB. He's cleaned up his act, but he's still ForeverTJ.

  • June 13, 2006, 9:14 a.m. CST

    What is the problem?

    by Zombie Carnifex

    Seriously? Why is there such positive support for a minority to control such a large portion of wealth? A more even distribution brings a more robust economy. (more cash in more hands = more spending) And please don't bring out the old socialism chestnut, government is involved in economic controls like union busting and regulating lawsuits so interference is OK if it benefits business? Meanwhile DoctorWho?, why is the executive at walmart deserving of millions while his employees need food stamps? Divine right?

  • June 13, 2006, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Trader!!!!

    by UncleEthan

    Anyone who has read previous talk back post of mine, those concerning politics, will tell you I am far-left of center....however- what the FBI did toKoresh and his followers was murder. Murder for politics sake. I do not say there were not bad things going on in that compound...but they could have simply arrested Koresh when he was in town on one of his drinking trips and saved many lives. Insteadthe ATF tried to make a budget gaining show out of it and wound up murdering women and children.

  • June 13, 2006, 10:10 a.m. CST

    Guys...

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    How can you take anything Panterarocks says seriously when Pantera sooooo DOES NOT rock???!!!

  • June 13, 2006, 11:52 a.m. CST

    Handle witchhunts- Whoever smelt it, dealt it.

    by finky089

    I realize I shouldn't be butting in here, but I don't understand the witchunts you guys are on for people using multiple handles. I'm not advocating "secret identities (not outside comics and movies, anyway), but these accusations come up on every TB now and it seems like it's often among some of the same people. And each accuses the other of having multiples screen names. But, it seems like the people who are most likely to make such a big deal about others having more than one handle are the ones who themselves also probably have multiple screen names. They just want to have that light shining anywhere but on themselves. "Whoever smelt it, dealt it." I've said my piece. Please continue to bicker and accuse. Gaetti for Prez in '08!

  • June 13, 2006, 12:45 p.m. CST

    finky089...are you new here?

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    Seriously, this is a matter of TB history we're talking about. These accusations do have pedigree and have spawned some of the more entertaining (and revealing) Troll/Flame Wars this site has had in quite sometime. It's an established rivalry now since there is some "bad blood" (if you will) between key TalkBackers. And sometimes, this serves us all well by helping to expose the various nutjobs running loose on ol' AICN. -- "Gaetti for Prez in '08" is the new gay hurting.

  • June 13, 2006, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Who is Howard Dean?

    by godhatesyou

    I stopped reading after that line.

  • June 13, 2006, 4:05 p.m. CST

    Anchorite

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    I don't know who Gaetti is but it appears to be the latest AICN catchphrase and I'm already sick of seeing it in the TBs. As for being the "new gay hurting" - it's new, it's gay, and it's hurting.

  • June 13, 2006, 7:41 p.m. CST

    The education of Cameron 1

    by DoctorWho?

    And I won't even post a silly link for you either...NEW YORK TIMES: "Fully one-third of President Bush's tax cuts in the last three years have gone to people with the top 1% of income who have earned an average of $1.2 million annually, according to a report by the CBO to be published today. The new estimates confirm what independent tax analysts have long said, that Mr. Bush's tax cuts have been heavily skewed to the very wealthiest taxpayers. THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE, HOWEVER, WHO PAY A DISSPROPORTIONATE SHARE OF FEDERAL TAXES." That's not me baby...it's the TIMES! Your rather sophmoric philosophy is "well, somebody making $400,000 a year gets a tax cut of $4,000, and somebody making $16,000 gets a tax cuts of $250. How's that fair? Somebody gets $4,000 and "THEY" don't need it." THEY DON'T NEED IT??. That's nobody's job to tell you who and what you don't need, especially not the government's. Your a tool.

  • June 13, 2006, 7:44 p.m. CST

    Just admit it Cameron 1

    by DoctorWho?

    If someone makes more money than you, they should be forced by the government to give you a portion of their earnings. CORRECT????

  • June 13, 2006, 8:03 p.m. CST

    You just don't get it...

    by Cameron1

    Someone who earns 400,000 a year can afford to lose 4,000 a year for the sake of education for all, clean running water for all, food for the starving etc etc. We have a moral responsibility to provide for the poorest members of society, if that means losing out on a widescreen TV for your bedroom then so be it. Flame away, be a greedy cunt, doesn't really bother me, i just hope you can look a starving kid in the face and tell them why you don't want to help them much.

  • June 13, 2006, 8:21 p.m. CST

    Oh btw...

    by Cameron1

    here's another lovely link, the more you ignore them the more stupid you look, they refute your idiotic arguments but you go on posting because you haven't actually read them. It's a little sad, but mostly it's just funny. _____ http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/american_income_taxation.htm ______ It' very interesting analysis, look like the Times has NO truth in it whatsoever, sorry anchorite I know you were excited. Oh and another thing, if the wealthiest do pay higher proportions of taxes (it's actually the upper middle income bracket who do) and people are stil starving and not able to survive working 2 jobs, wouldn't you say there IS something wrong with the system?

  • June 13, 2006, 8:55 p.m. CST

    Thank you Cameron1...

    by DoctorWho?

    You answered everything I needed to know in one simple sentence..."Someone who earns 400,000 a year can afford to lose 4,000 a year for the sake of education for all, clean running water for all, food for the starving etc." I have no interest in changing your mind... I simply seek clarity. It's now clear to me that you argue for a mass re-distibution of wealth. In a word SOCIALISM. You might think that's compassion, but as a result of this socialist mindset, people in socialist countries give little charity, while Americans give vast amounts. Also, the larger the state, the more callous it becomes. Twentieth century evil(Communism etc.) was made possible in large measure by the bureaucratic mentality, the type of person who is merely a cog in huge governmental machine, collectively all-powerful but individually powerless to do anything except take and execute orders. The bigger the state, the colder its heart. (It is also true that the bigger the corporation, the more callous its heart. But unlike the state, corporations have competition and have no police powers.)I do agree with one thing you said..."We have a moral responsibility to provide for the poorest members of society". Your damn right we do! Give to charity, voulunter at your local school, hospital,homeless shelter, soup line, animal shelter, Christ man...get pro active in life instead of sitting back and waiting for the govt. to tax people so YOU don't have to get off you lazy ass. Your so damn sanctamonious.

  • June 13, 2006, 9:08 p.m. CST

    Also...

    by DoctorWho?

    I love how you dismiss the NYT article because it doesn't jibe with the wacky links you post. Convienient.

  • June 13, 2006, 10:50 p.m. CST

    "Socialism" doesn't get the horrified gasp it used to.

    by cookylamoo

    Socialism. Big deal. The government moves around some of the money so the poor don't go crazy and burn everything down. Somehow there are always plenty of rich people, even under socialism.....in other news, competition among corporations is on the decline. As the number of companies shrinks, price fixing becomes the norm. Try going into business against coca cola, just try.

  • June 13, 2006, 11:36 p.m. CST

    Panterasucks can't be ALL that bad...

    by ErnieAnderson

    He likes lesbian porn. We at least have that in common.

  • June 14, 2006, 12:56 a.m. CST

    Cool post cookylamoo...

    by DoctorWho?

    I didn't hear about the competition among corporations on the decline. The pendulum is swinging all the time. Michael Barrone's book: Hard America/Soft America...illustrates how the country's history has always had this ebb and flow...nothing says the same for too long. Which is a very healthy thing.

  • June 14, 2006, 3:37 a.m. CST

    DoctorWho

    by Trader Groucho 2

    We already have a form of socialism on the ascendancy in the United States - national socialism - with a megacorporate booster. Oh, and what ain't healthy about this Hard America/Soft America thing is the outright war on the middle class that built the greatest economy in the history of this planet.

  • June 14, 2006, 3:39 a.m. CST

    Ah doctor, I DO help people. That's my job.

    by Cameron1

    And I give what I can to charity. Asking for high taxes for the very very rich isn't socialism, it's liberal, left wing sure, but you need to read up on socialism and re-distribution of wealth. My point is that higher taxes wouldn't be necessary if people were paid higher wages, yes it might mean a drop in shareholders profits in the short term but people who are paid better are always more productive so they would increase the companies wealth if they didn't have to work another job or worry about how they could pay their kids medical fees. You go on to talk about communism and yes it was a terrible terrible idea, but socialism hasn't ever actually been tried in any country so your attack is baseless, nice try though. I don't know wabout you but I'd prefer people working 2 jobs to not need charity it's demeaning to say the least and only proves that the system is terribly fucked up. So I hope you have fun telling a child that's starving you don't millionaires shouldn't pay as much tax as they do now(despite obviously benefitting from American society because it isnt fair in your eyes. But what's less fair, a child starving and a millionaire with an extra car or a child with food and a millionaire with 4 cars instead of 5? Which is more morally accpetable to you? Honestly.

  • June 14, 2006, 3:47 a.m. CST

    anchorite - hillary's no liberal

    by Trader Groucho 2

    She's pro-war, she's buds with Rupert Murdoch, and she's already running to the center in preparation for 2008 because she thinks the Dems on the left have already embraced her. Candidates typically have to run somewhat left of center to get the Democratic nomination. The argument that Dems have to swallow their ideals and go with Hillary because she can win won't wash in '08 because they tried that in '04 with Kerry and got their asses handed to them. Hillary won't get the nod in '08. They'll go with Edwards or someone else who's more liberal, more pro-environment, and who has some integrity on the Iraq issue. And that person's running mate, whoever the nominee is, will be Antonio Villaraigosa. Just watch. Oh yeah. I bought the DeLay DVD and a couple of others.

  • June 14, 2006, 3:52 a.m. CST

    Oh and on Barone...

    by Cameron1

    The whole book is mired in wishful self image problems of "hard" republicans and "soft" liberals Is it "hard America/republicans who celebrate a President who feels the Fed. Gov't must save steelworkers jobs with tariffs, provide steep tax cuts to the rich least they loose their 'incentive' for producing, spend huge amounts of money on credit and so on. The Government allows Corporate officers no taxation, or tax reduction to make up for failed Profits. Is that "soft" or "hard" america?

  • June 14, 2006, 7:01 a.m. CST

    "Hard America" makes me think of Bill Clinton.

    by cookylamoo

    Soft America...well, Geoerge Bush looks like he hasn't climbed Laura in years.

  • June 14, 2006, 12:16 p.m. CST

    Where's the movie about our stolen government?

    by Capt. Murphy

    Whatever you think you know. You don't.

  • June 14, 2006, 2:38 p.m. CST

    Doctor Who?

    by Zombie Carnifex

    Please look up US history in the gilded era. The concentration of wealth into fewer hands and consolidation of power into fewer companies is being repeated again now. It took action from the the government, unions, a depression and a world war (II) to create real competition. Look into McChesney's the problem of the media to see the problems concentrated corporate power poses for progressives and conservatives. It's a great read.

  • June 14, 2006, 4:02 p.m. CST

    what zombie said. oh, and anchorite

    by Trader Groucho 2

    We already have involuntary redistribution of wealth, the result of a clearly-stolen election in 2000 and a very muddy election in 2004. It's just that the redistribution is from the poor and the middle class to the rich and mega-rich. And BTW, what you toss around as "socialism" is really just Rousseau 101. It is, lamentably, the neo-cons pushing the corporatocracy who are also most responsible for the instances of the breakdown of the social contract in the U.S. The examples and the effects of the corporatocracy (in effect, aristocracy) are too numerous to list here, but as starting points, look at the military-industrial complex, the prison-industrial complex, outsourcing, the war on labor unions, and the so-called war on drugs.

  • June 14, 2006, 5:45 p.m. CST

    Anchorite, you are really slipping

    by Cameron1

    The children aren't hyposthetical, go to Tulsa, heck come to DC, I'll put you up and you can see for yourself. I guess we must be lving in different worlds, I'm just sad mine is the real one. have a read of this in the mean time:___ http://www.slate.com/id/2069049/ ____

  • June 14, 2006, 8:12 p.m. CST

    Cameron 1, you have a misconception.

    by DoctorWho?

    That business and capitalism are based on exploitation: exploitation of consumers, workers, society, and the environment. You believe that "profit" is a necessary evil at best, and certainly not a desirable goal for society as a whole. Don't get me wrong...I don't like nor trust big business. Corporations and the like are generally AMORAL. They have to be watched. business is NOT based on exploitation or coercion at all. I realized that business is based on voluntary cooperation. No one is forced to trade with a business; customers have competitive alternatives in the market place; employees have competitive alternatives for their labor; investors have different alternatives and places to invest their capital. In other words, business is not a zero-sum game with a winner and loser. It is a win, win, win, win game

  • June 15, 2006, 12:23 a.m. CST

    anchorite - the "social contract"

    by Trader Groucho 2

    is basic political science. You should consider maybe googling it. Education is a good thing.