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Massawyrm Shakes, Spits, and Convulses Over X-MEN: THE LAST STAND!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
Hola all. Massawyrm here.
Anger. All I feel is anger right now. Honestly, I can’t believe what I’ve just watched. It’s like I fell asleep in the theatre and had a nightmare about what the X-Men movie might turn out to be in the wrong hands.
Instead, it was no dream. What is it? It’s about these X-Men fans who line up on Friday morning to slap down their $8 only to walk into a theatre in which Brett Ratner stands on stage, whips out his piece and pisses on each fan individually. It’s Fox saying “Hey, thanks for helping to make the first two movies hits, fanbase. Now politely fuck off. We’re done with you.” It’s a group of people, who gave us such great cinematic sex with the second film, rolling us over, doing their back end business, then finishing us off with a Dirty Sanchez of an ending. That’s what X-Men: The Last Stand is.
No. I’m not over reacting. For those of you who aren’t X-Men fans let me point you to the earlier reviews by Vern and Jemma McFatBack. These are pretty much spot on depending upon what you are looking for in the film. As a film, completely separate of any type of fanbase or history – it’s simply mediocre. There are a few moments (and I stress the word moments) of greatness. A few brief glimpses of a good movie shining through the muck and haze that is this flaccid attempt at a sequel.
The rest of the film, however, plays out like the bad pilot for an X-Men TV series, in which they want to briefly introduce you to the cast of characters, while running entirely off the steam of the highly paid actors who will not actually be appearing in the show. Those characters they kill off wholesale, or remove in such a way that maybe if the show is a big enough hit – might make a guest appearance. That pretty much sums up the overall feeling of X3.
And honestly, that’s how I felt up through the final act about this film. It was a lame, pathetic grasp of a third film, not unlike Batman Forever or Superman 3 – never quite achieving the immortal infamy that is the fourth installment of either of those series. Until the last 2 minutes. That’s where it all falls apart, and the lousy writing, the terrible direction that the producers chose for the series and ultimately the canned leadership of Ratner all boil up to the surface. Because not only do you realize that this is it, that’s all they’re doing with this film…but they have the brass cojones to attempt to undo almost every major plot decision they made with the film to begin with. It’s positively surreal – as if they are saying “Heh, sure we did that. But we didn’t really mean it.” But let me address this point by point. Because there’s so much here to hate.
First and foremost - still leaving fandom out of this – the film manages to avoid achieving any emotional connection with the audience at all. Every moment but 3 that should connect emotionally simply doesn’t. Then, as they begin to kill characters off, it never feels like they’re actually killing characters off. It doesn’t matter whether you know these characters from years of comics or simply from the films you’ve seen them in. You do not for an instant feel the impact of their deaths. They just die, as if they were tertiary characters you didn’t expect to make it all the way through the film anyway. And when all is said and done, you simply can’t believe they did it. “Really? They’re dead? Well, that blows.” And that’s all the emotion you can muster.
Frankly, I don’t know where entirely to place the blame here. As the story and writing are incredibly lazy and the screenwriters have such an unbelievable pedigree (between them, they are responsible for xXx: State of the Union, Behind Enemy Lines and Elektra – Elektra alone should have gotten Zak Penn banned from screenwriting for life, I mean, how, for fucks sake, do you write a movie with Ninjas that is that fucking boring?) It feels as if they were simply handed a list of all the characters the producers wanted to show up in the film and they struggled magnificently against their combined lack of talent to find a way to work each one of them in – without actually developing a single one of them. This film, at times, appears to be an endless stream of cameos that WANTS to appeal to the fanbase, without ever getting most of them right in any way, shape or form – thus alienating the fanbase entirely.
But then Ratner comes in with their script and takes what material SHOULD be good and directs it so flat that it almost becomes…no wait, strike that, it actually becomes…melodrama. The film sets up a love triangle without ever bothering to make it remotely emotional or even attempts to resolve it at all – as it rapidly devolves into a charismatic void that three young (and proven talented actors) can’t seem to pull above the level of One Tree Hill. But like I said, he gets a few moments just right. Unfortunately, no one passed on to Ratner the GRAND SECRET OF MAKING A COMIC BOOK MOVIE.
Now here’s where I’m going to begin getting just down right fucking geeky. All the unbiased “I’m not a diehard fan” reviewing is over. From here on out, I’m going to become EXACTLY the kind of nerd Vern was talking about in the beginning of his review. You see, there seems to be a well-kept secret about making super hero films. I say well-kept, because as obvious as it fucking seems, only Singer, Raimi, Nolan, del Toro, Donner (who apparently didn’t tell his wife), McTeigue and the Wachowski’s seem to know it (this secret is also understood in the fantasy world by Jackson and Cuaron.) The secret is this. You can take material with a rabid fanbase – a fanbase so rabid in fact, that they’ll scream over and over again about Canon, quoting it verbatim – then change fundamental parts of that Canon (merging characters, getting histories and events wrong, ignoring backgrounds entirely) if, and only if, you get the soul of the character and the comic book right. There, that’s the secret. It’s out.
You see, Comic books are at its core Mythology. And like any true Mythology it changes over time beyond the scope of the initial creators. In Classical Greek times, stories of the gods sprung up and merged together – often times with lesser gods of local areas being absorbed into the histories of what we know to be the major gods. In Christian Mythology, Hell and Lucifer had very little definition until Dante and Milton came along with their Fiction, and actually added to how people still today perceive these concepts. And people accepted it. Why? Because it made sense. While some of the facts may have been different, it stuck with all the major points people believed about these beings and further defined them in the minds of the audience. Well, it’s the same thing with comic books.
For many of us, Comic Books are our mythology. Here we have stories of deities, beings possessed of great power – each with their own tragic flaw – that stand to represent some ideal and operate entirely within that framework. What is Superman but the nigh indestructible embodiment of true, lawful, Boy Scout-like justice? What is the Batman but the embodiment of brain over brawn – a crafty being dedicated to vigilante justice and yet with a devotion that doesn’t involve killing? And who is Spider-Man but the embodiment of the youthful, dejected spirit granted great power, only to be forced to understand that “with great power comes great responsibility.” Comic books always have and always will be great morality plays, lessons wrapped in entertaining metaphor – just as early mythology and fables were. And to get it right when translating it to the screen, one need not stick to the facts, but rather to the soul, of what you’re adapting.
I mention Superman, Batman and Spider-Man for a reason. Look at the Original Superman. Look at Spider-Man. Look at Batman Begins. All three of them, every single one, ignores VERY IMPORTANT ‘facts’ about the history of each character. Hell, when Superman first came out, fans screamed about how it varied from the established storyline. But after a while, they shut the hell up. Why? First of all, it was a great fucking film. Secondly, and most importantly – they got Supes right. They got Kent right. They got Lane right. It was absolutely, without a doubt, a Superman story. How about Spider-Man? Organic webshooters, a mechanical Green Goblin suit, no Gwen Stacy? Sound familiar? Sure, but why do we love the movie so? Because they got Peter right. They got Spider-Man right. And they focused on what made those two distinctly different (and yet the same) people tick. All three of these films are prime examples of exactly how an adaptation like this should be done. All treat the material as mythology – not simply something with an established fanbase.
Now the X-Men franchise has had a rocky history with this. The first film got a couple of characters VERY wrong (chiefly Rogue, with a smattering of Wolverine) - but then the second film came along, apologized, and got absolutely everything right. All of a sudden Wolverine actually was Wolverine. Nightcrawler was added and was spot on. And despite the changes they made to Canon, they managed to get Rogue back on track (sure, Rogue never dated Iceman – but they got the ill-fated romance angle of her character PERFECT.) Singer got the X-Men right. And just to top it off, as if a perfect X-Men movie weren’t enough…they gave us that final shot of the film. You all know what shot I’m talking about. The PROMISE. The Promise of the single most kick ass X-Men story ever told put in the hands of the people that got the X-Men right. The Dark Phoenix Saga.
The Dark Phoenix Saga is arguably one of the top five best runs of a comic book ever. The thing is EPIC. It has everything. Love, jealousy, betrayal, intrigue, sacrifice. It’s practically Shakespearian in scope. And honestly, it would be an impossible film to do as Canon. No one expected Canon with this film. Fuck the Shi’ar. Hell, fuck the Corsairs and outer space entirely. Frankly, I don’t think there’s a fan out there that expected the classic continuity. But few expected this. I know I sure didn’t. Now I’m not going to say that they did the Phoenix Saga wrong – because they didn’t. In fact, they didn’t do the Phoenix Saga AT ALL. Not a bit of it. No Hellfire Club, no Black King, No White Queen, no corruption of Jean Grey, no possession, nothing of the original storyline at all. Sure, everyone calls Jean Grey The Phoenix – but she’s not. She’s Just SUPER JEAN GREY. The phoenix isn’t some cosmic force or supernatural being. Jean Grey doesn’t possess Earth shattering powers that can consume whole planets. For fucks sake!
We never even for one second see her manifest the Phoenix force. Seriously guys. That shadow we saw underwater at the end of X2? That’s the closest you will ever get to seeing the Phoenix Force. According to X3, Jean Grey is just really powerful, and despite having the ability to read the minds of anyone at all, while possessing the ability to disintegrate people with a thought – she’s more than happy to simply follow around Magneto and be his goon for no apparent reason. In fact, for most of the second half of the film, all she does is stand around and look menacing while Magneto keeps dropping hints that she is his secret weapon (that she seems far too oblivious to pick up on.) That’s your precious Phoenix Saga. That’s as close as you’re ever going get to it on the screen.
And that’s what absolutely pissed me the hell off. What began as simply a mediocre comic book movie ended when I realized “Holy shit! We’re never actually going to get The Phoenix. The promise will never be fulfilled.” Consider this the beginning of another in a long line of cinematic ‘what ifs?’ “What if Bryan Singer had been allowed to do his Phoenix Saga film? What would that have been like?” Sadly, we’ll never know.
What makes matters worse is that as the film draws to a close, you realize how much of what happened - but didn’t ever feel real - actually was real. Those characters were really dead. Other characters really lost their powers. Several storylines were all done at once ensuring they could never be done properly. That was it. That’s all we got. But remember my Dirty Sanchez statement? No, that wasn’t just an insult to the filmmakers. No, instead, we’re treated to a wrap up that begins to unravel virtually everything – that only adds insult to injury. It begins to say “Hey, remember that dead character. Maybe they’re not really dead. Remember all those people who lost their powers. Maybe the powers will come back.” What? Seriously? You hit us with lame emotional resonance, making decisions that will piss off fandom…and then you don’t even have the balls to stick to it. Jesus Christ. You managed to make a film where the only definitives are the people you don’t want to bring back past their 3 picture deal. Yes, not only do they manage to make a spectacularly crappy movie – but then they can’t even own up to their crap.
Ultimately, X-Men: The Last Stand proves to be a colossal waste of time, effort and money. All they accomplish is removing certain actors from the cast list and certain storylines from the pool they can draw from if they ever choose to continue the series. And while that might bode well for the series as a whole (as thankfully, there are easily a dozen other X-Men stories that can be told), it makes for shitty filmmaking and a depressing end for several great characters. Were this simply the first of the X-Men series, I might have simply disliked this film – or maybe even felt it mediocre. But it’s not. It comes on the heels of a perfect X-Men movie. We’ve seen that it can be done. This time it just wasn’t. Not even close.
But who the fuck am I kidding? I’m talking to X-Men fans. And as fans, you’re going to see this no matter how many people tell you it’s bad. You’ve gotta know for yourselves. And believe me. I understand – I’m the same way. Just do the ole Wyrm a favor, friends. Brace yourselves. It isn’t going to be pretty.
Until next time friends, smoke ‘em if ya got ‘em. I know I will.
Massawyrm
Got something for the Wyrm? Mail it here.
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Totally underrated classic. Yeah, 4 sucked, but 3 was at least trying to do something different.
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The only reason I'm posting here is so I can get in on an X3 talkback before it gets too crowded. I doubt I'll even get around to seeing the movie until sometime next week.
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fuck hugh.
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You're talking to film fans. ^_^ Good review, but again the polarised opinion on various segments of it from different reviewers is driving me nuts. It doesn't engage the audience according to this review, but Harry says they were entertained. I could go on, but it's all down in the zone for the differing opinions of the various reviewers... including how some praise the script but rib Ratner, and others hating the script and Ratner managing to pull it off. Guess the only thing to do is watch it yourself in this case.
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Why not blame the screenwriters that perfectly adapted the universe Bryan already set up? All these faults stem from Bryan's universe which never fit with the comics at all to begin with.
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No thank you, I'll leave that job to Divine Brown.
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i forgot it could be interpreted as hugh grant. or jackman.
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BULLSHIT. You hate this movie as a whiney comic fanboy because it didn't stick to source material so you think of shit to plaster in your "unbiased" view. God, remember how fucking in tune with the comics hero Wolverine is in Bryan Singer's films. Or remember that his universe hadn't tried to replicate a giant supersize story arc like Phoenix (And the set up for Phoenix was crap as well). You cannot be unbiased because of where you fit, you were always going to hate this movie.
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Its exactly how I felt when I got my peak.. it was like getting whacked in the balls with a nerf bat... sure.. it wasn't wood.. but GAWD DAYUM it still hurts... All these reviews that ask you to look at the film out of context is missing the point entirely. Why would you make a Comic Book Film that is compltely out of context??? Whats the point in making it about a group of characters from a Comic book.. even a SPECIFIC comic book story? Couldn't you do virtually the same film with original characters and a setting that DOESN'T insult the fans intelligence? Oh well...
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the least insightful reviewer on this website.
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X3's gotten 10 positive reviews out of 16. None of them are particularly glowing, and each seems to agree that its lesser than X2 (could it NOT be?), but few are panning it to the degree that geekdom here on AICN are. As someone who traded all the Dark Phoenix comics to complete my Spidey collection about 15 years ago, I'm not going to shit a brick about any enormous changes made to that story. I'm thinking I'm probably in the movie-going majority, but I'll find out for sure this weekend....
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...of this review: "Wah, wah! It's notht e Dark Phoenix story from my beloved comics! It suxxors!" Sorry, Massa, but your criticisms in the first "unbiased" portion of your review ring ridiculously hollow when compared to statements made by Moriarty, Vern and even Harry on how this film actually does its job as a film for folks who aren't the comic book equivalents of Opus Deists. You are pissed because you wanted the Hellfire Club. You wanted Mastermind. You wanted Sentinels that were twenty five feet tall and purple. You wanted the Wolverine crawling through the sewer sequence and you wanted the grand sacrifice of Phoenix at the end with a shattered Cyclops carrying her dead body off in his arms. Hell, your dumb ass probably wanted the Shi'ar and the Imperial Guard, too. Tough titty, said the kitty. It's a movie that's finishing up a story begun in two previous films. If you were going to write a movie review, you should have reviewed it as such. Instead, you've written the fourth angry comic fanboy editorial on this subject to hit the site in the last few days. How does it feel to be that unoriginal in your perceptions or your thinking? Almost as good as knowing you'll probably never get the X-Men movie you want? Gosh...that sucks.
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Jeez, yack, all this time I thought all movies were supposed to be the best they possibly could be. Why did I hope that a comic book movie could be as well made as an 'oscar winning drama'?. They're supposed to be mindless crap you say. Well that makes it easier then, I must go and pay my money to see some mindless crap. Fuck sake...think before typing.
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... to make the Phoenix Saga. Movies 3 & 4. 3 starts with a recap of Jean's death. Scott can't deal with it, and keeps hearing her voice in his head. Introduce some elements of the HEllfire Club, with 'undercover x-man' Warren Worthington III as a member in good standing. ***** While on Cerebro, Prof X detects a mutant of extreme power. He & X-Men go to investigate, and discover a re-born Jean Gray, now known as Phoenix. She spends the movie dealing with her new powers, and how they're threatening to take her over. ***** After Warren is discovered to be an X-Man, he is abducted by the Hellfire Club. Some other X-Men go to rescue him, and are defeated in short order. Jean, Scott & Logan go to make the rescue. Wolvie has his legendary sewer fight with the Hellions. Scott is taken down while fighting to rescue the others X-men. Jean sees this and snaps, and blasts the Hellfire Club to bits. We see the building explode, the Phoenix effect erupting from the building. ***** The x-men are laid to rest in Central Park. they revive. "Phoenix, you saved us, but what did you do?" says Scott, seeing the devestation of the HF Club. "You've got it wrong, Scott. The Phoenix may have saved you, but she's gone now. You can call me DARK PHOENIX". TO BE CONCLUDED... ********** X4 begins where X3 left off. The X-men are in the park, Phoenix has gone evil and is in full control of the situation, and the Hellfire Club is in ruins, the condition of the members unknown. ***** Prof X knows what happened. He felt Jean lost control, and he alone knows that she killed everyone in the building, save for the X-Men. "My god, Jean. What have you done?" ***** Cyclops - "Jean, you saved us. I know that you'd never knowingly do somehting like this. You just need control over your power." DP - "You pathetic fool, Jean was weak. She tried to hold the Phoenix back. But my power is greater than any human can control. The Phoenix has destroyed intergalactic fleets. The Shi-Ar empire is in shambles due to me. I have killed billions of beings on countless worlds, and this planet is next." Phoenix effect blooms as DP flies away. ***** Magneto's Brotherhood join with the X-Men, as well as many other un-named (but known to the fans) mutants in the final fight with Dark Phoenix. Many die. Eventually, it comes down to Cyclops vs DP. Jean takes control long enough to tell Scott to kill her. She's barely able to hold the power back, and she knows that the Phoenix will destroy the planet if she's not stopped. Jean, crying - "Please Scott, do it. You're the only one who has the power to do this." Scott, tears streaming down his face, tells Jean he'll love her til the end of time. He tears off his mask, delivering the killing blow. Jean's body vaporizes under the power of his blast. The Phoenix effect goes flying into the night sky, and explodes. ***** The X-men regroup. Scott leaves, quitting the X-men. The ranks of the x-men are devestated, death and injury claiming many. the remaining mutants ask Prof X what's next. "I don't know. I just don't know" ***** Fade to black.
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... who came on the talkbacks with a mad-on saying how Harry "had it in" for the movie and it was "just a popcorn film", bla bla bla. That's right you mindless peons, condition yourselves to not only accept but praise constant mediocrity. Hmmm... Punisher, Elektra, Fantastic Four, Daredevil, yeah let's keep things at EXACTLY that same level, forever. Can't wait for Ghost Rider. You people make me sick. I pee in your melon.
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Don't make the movie. It's as easy as that.
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Nice "movie review". How about actually reviewing the god damn movie instead of whining about how what you saw in the theatre and some comic books are two diffrent things.
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I have a question. What exactly does Milton say about Lucifer and Hell that became part of our "canon". I do not agree with that, can you back that up? No fighting, no arguments, just a little discussion, but thats a bold statement and I want you to expound on it if you would please. Thank you.
Hamferno
www.theidiottestament.com -
I am? Damn.
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Before Milton, Satan was mostly considered a passive presence (cf Dante's inferno, where he's just stuck there and directly impacting 3 people and indirectly impacting the traitors). Milton made Satan an active presence by actually making him a character into a prop. That said, that's only from a "surviving literature" perspective. I doubt Milton was wholly original in his presentation, and the concept of an active Satan probably already existed.
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And I should've mentioned an 'active' Satan is thus one who goes around tempting us to do evil, etc., which is an established part of Christian canon (although I'm sure there are some groups that diminish or eliminate Satan's role).
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... you started reviewing the film based on "WHAT YOU EXPECTED." At that point, your writing, Massawyrm, ceased being a review, and became, instead, the jealous whinings of some random blogger who didn't get to make his wittle fiwm de way he wanted. WAAAAAAAAAH. The tough part, for me, is that I usually very much enjoy your stuff on this site. But this... this... crap is inexcusable. Don't get me wrong: I am a lifelong X-Geek. I am NOT a Ratner fan (I don't like Rush Hour OR MOney Talks, even). And I have not seen X3, so I can't even give you my opinion on this movie, but, for the love of god, just review what you saw, based on WHAT YOU SAW. Do not review what you saw based on what you wanted to see. Lame. You fail, sir. Not even F+.
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...by Genesis during the temptation of Eve and in the New Testament when Jesus is tempted (and resists), just for the record, chrth. What Milton did was make Satan a sympathetic character...almost a tragic hero of sorts, a concept that has stuck with a lot of creative interpreters of Judaeo Christian myth throughout the ages (Pacino's devil in Advocate, Mortensen's devil in The Prophecy, the character of Lucifer in the DC/Vertigo Sandman continuity, etc.).
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It's fine that the franchise has its Joel Schumacher to bury Singer's fine, but ultimately not that captivating, continuity. I like Singer and his X-Men films but I also think that the series could go in a much stronger direction. In a few years we'll have a kickass X-Men Begins, perhaps in a world wild enough to accomodate The Savage Land and Belasco's Magick, perhaps even a retro early sixties tone. Or something. That the studio needed to make a movie (or two?) that I might not need to see, to get to that, is sad for them. But I'll live.
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The association between the Serpent and Satan in the Garden of Eden does not exist in the bible. Rabbinical scholars do not believe that they should be equated, and the use of the devil in the rest of the bible is inconsistent at best with latter Christian tradition.
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Is just that: a temptation. Only 1 of the 3 temptations would result in the devil actually doing something, and one suspects that it's an empty promise (he is the king of lies).
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So far I have heard alot of good reviews... only bad reviews were on this site. Howard Stern LOVED it, as did 5 out of 6 people who went with him. I take his opinion over these idiot reviewers like Howard who compares the directing style of Blade 3 to giving a girl head... I mean really I dont think I ever agreed with any of the reviews on this site. I come for the news, not the reviews, and I cant get past the first paragraph (a 3 page long review! PATHETIC) Anyway, I was worried for this movie because of this site... stupid me. I should have realized just like every other damn movie that gets this treatment.. the actual movie was pretty good and got good reviews everywhere else. You know what it is... Harry just wants this movie to tank, so he can say "yup, my power did this... my power! MY SITE REVIEWS!" He cant do that with a noname crappy movie, cause if a noname crappy movie tanks... well thats normal. No, he wants to do it to a blockbuster movie. And he fails. Miserably. Every. Damn. Time. He has his mind made up he will give a horrible review before he even sees the movie, and all his cohorts do too. He thinks people actually listen to him. lol... and the one time that a blockbuster movie does fail because he dissed it... he will say that it was all him and his site that the movie flopped as it deserved... even if EVERY OTHER REVIEW IN AMERICA called the movie worst movie ever to make this hypothetical movie tank, he would think its him. Get over it Harry. You have no effect on the box office. Power hungry person with no power. Stick to news, not biased reviews. I CANT WAIT TO SEE THIS MOVIE!
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...chrth. And why I used the term "implied" rather than saying it was spelled out literally. Point being, Milton followed groundwork laid by Christian myth-makers and connected dots to the Old Testament by framing his story within the events depicted by Genesis, changing the way a lot of people looked at and thought about Satan or Lucifer (as well as that serpent). And at least some of the admittedly inconsistent portrayals of Satan or Lucifer in the New Testament depicted him as taking an active role in the temptation or possession of human beings. It's not as if everyone has played or written Satan/Lucifer the same way since Milton and Dante. The character was very background in Rosemary's Baby and The Omen - more of a force than a character, really. Yet well fleshed out and developed in the two latter films and the comics I mentioned. Just trying to lend a bit of perspective to a potentially interesting discussion of the impact two authors might have had on the perception of an important literary/mythological figure.
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Just adding my two cents :)
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Because I never owned a comic book, didn't really watch the cartoon series, but I enjoyed the first two movies. I like the costumes, effects and action. This has all three, so I'm there!
Comic book geeks are a sad little bunch. -
FF was a huge hit with my 6-year-old son. I thought it was great that someone finally made a comic book movie FOR KIDS. Apparently, no one on here falls in the demographic (under 10 or with the parents of kids under 10). Doesn't mean the movie was a complete failure. But, yeah, I am expecting more from X3...
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It was a good movie. It was what I was expecting. Maybe thats because im not a comic book geek, and never really even read a F4 book (cept for first few ultimates)
But I thought it was an enjoyable movie. And Alba in that suit..wow. -
It's too bad. A good script with the Hellfire Club, Jean's corruption, and the final stand/her sacrifice would have been a fucking great movie. Why not do it that way? It's just stupid. And a terrible waste.
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May 24, 2006 10:48:35 AM CDT
Cuaron didn't get jack squat right in Pris. of Azkaban
by excaliburffolkes
Glad to see some of his defenders finally getting a taste of their own big steaming pile of crap. Maybe the debacle of X-Men III will give you some perspective.
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I would like to consider myself a pretty hardcore fan of Comic books. Just like Massy is saying that if done right a film can completley destroy the background of characters as long as they get thier attitude and spirit right. He even shows examples of movies that most fans have forgiven because they managed to do just that. What he is pointing out is the single fact why most films end up so piss poor in the first place. The general audience is happy to accept crap in the first place.
If I comic book movie and/or a video game movie takes itself seriously it will win the attention of the general audience and the fans. At the same time if they decided to shove popcorn drivel down our throats it will still sell.
Take a look at some of the top grossing comic book movies of all time. A few at the top of list proves that comic/video game movies that take themselves seriously sell. But at the same token at #7 Men In Black2, #8 Batman Forever, #11 Fantastic Four, #17 Batman & Robin, #19 Daredevil are also pretty high on the list. I do not see how they managed to sell above
Constantine, Sin City, and Blade.
Probably some of them can be attributed to movie studio trickery. The previous movies were good so we can release stinkers that will please the general audience while tricking some of the hardcore into seeing them. -
the Dark Phoenix Saga. It should have been foolproof to take the story from the comics take out the nonsense (outer space/Hell Fire Club period pieces). You would have had a great movie. I guess in the words of Douglas Adams
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Singer had it all set up and Rat and the suits shat on it. -
makes absolutely no sense at this point unless you do the whole outer space/shiar bit. Maybe if you set up that Jean's power involves manifesting in spirit form in the first movie. The problem here is they're trying to shoehorn a whole other storyline into the third part of a good mutants-bad mutants dust up.
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...for the mediocrity of X3. If that turkey made money, then they would only have to but half the effort into this one.
I was 18 when the Dark Phoenix saga was first printed, it was like Shakespeare, and easily adaptable to the big screen. The story was so powerful because the characters were so connected to eachother. I can still see the Byrne comic panels in my mind:
Jean destroying Mastermind, the tears in Xaviers face while trying to contain the Phoenix, Jeans last act in front of a hapless Scott Summers...those were the days. -
Is it a prerequisite to be a stale malcontent to review movies on this site? I swear if anyone of you actually saw something they truly enjoyed 100% you would probably drop dead from shock. It's pointless drivel like this that prompts every two bit fanboy in the world to endlessly 'blog' about all things they find fault in, which is of course everything they see. I hope you have a day job.
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I have to laugh. We all have a personal relationship with art. I am a fan of the comics and based on this review and the FACTS about the film in it can decide I will not pay to see it in a theater and will be content to rent it at some point.
When ROTS came out there were reviews that shook me to my core about what I would see and I went anyway. It was the single most uncomfortable film experience I ever had. I was angry, embarrassed, disappointed and most of all sad that "they got it wrong". Of course it's only MY opinion, which did happen to be shared in part with other fans.
Thanks for the review and saving me the $9.00, this is why I still come to this site. -
Even if it's shitty, make it anyway. It's guranteed money. If it sucks, you still have the built-in geek audience who will watch it no matter how bad it is so they can bitch about it to their nerd friends and complain that they accurately capture the nuances of page 42 of the double annual super huge issue. If by some miracle it doesn't suck, you might actually get some normal people to buy tickets and generate even more revenue. Either way, the studio wins. I would rape your childhood D&D-playing scifi fantasy dreams in a New York second if it means I make a million dollars. Who gives a fuck about "staying true to the source material?" Show me the money. Anyone else who claims they wouldn't jump on that action is a fucking liar or incredibly stupid.
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I don't come in here often just because it's just too damn depressing that their are people out there with such regoddanmdiculous opinions, But Harry Quint Massa Etc. just come across as whiny biatches!!! "oh they didn't make it my way" school of film critiquing. Someone above said and I paraphrase "shut the fuck up and do it better" You wanna-be writers. Film critiquing is not a systematic break down of each scene as it relates to a moment in your past. Now I may agree with certain aspect such as rushing the film, the nothing new aspect to the story, and the possible mediocrety(sp) of it all but the "boo hoo they killed this one off, they didn't copy it panel for panel" for crispy creams sake you numb nuts they kill characters off all the time in comics just to ressurect them later and every few years they bring in a new creative team to reboot the title. This "canan" your so fond of has a bazillion versions not just the one that fell on the comic racks during your particular formatible years. (check your ego at the door geek-a-zoid). Any ways flam away. Still love the site in gereral Harry. If only I had that button in mirror mirror Kirks bedroom "BOOOIIIINNNGG"!!!
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"It was the single most uncomfortable film experience I ever had."
Wow... were you molested while watching ROTS? UNCOMFORTABLE FILM EXPERIENCE!?!?!?!!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!! That is pathetically geeky to call frigging seeing a movie an UNCOMFORTABLE film experience. Why dont you just scream "I need a life" -
YouIgnorantGeeks, fall under general audience catagory. And Blanket-Man are you saying there isn't enough content out there for your ten year old to enjoy? So lets turn all the comic book movies into PG-13 movies requrdless of content. There isn't enough material out there for the youngins'.As far as FF, I am not even a big fan of the comic books.... the movie still sucked. Heckles you see what you want to see. Who here seriously has an issue with Mission impossible III? or Spiderman 2?
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This review was not the review for me. And maybe that means that this website isn't the review for me. But I am not a comic book geek. And the stuff I am a geek about -- LOTR, Vonnegut, Harry Potter, Ender's Game, to name a few -- I really don't give a flying crap if they change stuff when they're translated to movies. The precious source material is never going away. So all the griping about "mythology" and little details "ruined" just sounds silly to me. But hey, more power to you if that's what gets you off.
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is a pretty good term. I was watching Rots hoping that it would get better. While I am not going to say it completely bombed, in my opinion the prequels failed to even come close to the genuine emotional response the originals evoked. I wonder why some of these people scream you have to be a geek just to point out that certain films lack in heartfelt content.
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LOL.... what the hell are you talking about... so if 98% of America loves X3, there all wrong, because its the 2% of the comic book geeks opinions that matter? HAHAHAAH so frigging stupid. I am a huge movie fan. I wanna see a good movie. X3 I would bet is a good movie... except to those jerking off to Mystique in the comics and are pissed off they don't discuss her being Rogues mother or whatever in the movies. "EWW YUCK! THEY GAVE THE GIRL MUTANTS IN THIS MOVIE BREASTS THAT ACTUALLY MOVE INSTEAD OF GOING PANEL BY PANEL!" I mean get a life.... If the movie is good who cares if it sticks to the materials. yea, ok, be pissed it doesnt... but dont say its bad for it when its still good. I mean really. General Audience... lol.... thats like you just called me a normal person instead of a loser geek, so thank you.
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Really, you sure? Had time to calm down at all ;-) I'm messing with you. Enjoyed your vitriolic review but I still believe (as I posted in Harry's review TB) that you guys are too close to the material to be objective. Liked the review though, your journey to the Dark Side is nearly complete... :-P
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In my above post I did a disservice to Harry by grouping him in with Quint and Massa etc. without reading his full review. Although I haven't always agreed with his reviews, he does make some very valid points regarding the Last Stand and film making in general. Good job H. Still I hope I love this.
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... you ARE a geek. Not an insult, we all are to some extent. The reason the OT had more "heartfelt content" is because you were younger. You were naive. Nothing lives up to the memories of childhood, it's a human condition. It applies to movies, books, and even places we visit, people we knew. I'm sorry I'm the one who has to tell you this, staticneuron, I really am. It's no fun for me either. Sit down, relax, you don't look so good. Can I get you a glass of water or something?
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But at least it ain't Superman. Good lord, can you imagine? Ratner's Superman sounded like a cross between the chessiest parts of "Spawn," and Highlander 2: The Quickening. .........Avi Arad: Sometimes you should not be a know-it-all. You were warned about this right here. Hire Knowles, his damn Barsoomian adventures are in perpetual non-motion anyway.
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If watching a movie can make you feel angry for having watched it, there's something wrong with the way your brain is wired.
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Massawyrm does what amateur reviewers do best. He judges a film based on what it isn't and what he wants it to be as opposed to what is. A Good Critic [if that's possible] takes the ideas of a film he/she is reviewing and gives his/her opinion if the film works on with the ideas/story/characters presented or not. It's that simple. I enjoy both X Men films and I am more then looking forward to this one. All I can say is that I hope this film is good. The trailers certainly have me excited.
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Just pretend you are watching an episode of the now defunct Mutant X on the Big Screen. Cool!
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Try watching the movie Happiness with your parents.
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like the back of a volkswagen? ;-P It's all good.
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it's probably not as bad as you remember it. Richard Pryor definately ruined the tone of the movie, but watching Superman try to murder clark kent, and that bitch getting transformed into a robit by the supercomputer were redeeming moments. The bottom line is, they're movies. If you are ultra serious about them being pefect in every way, there's simply something wrong with your expectations, because it's just....a....movie. A comic book movie at that.
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I disagree, you said there was an inconsistancy from old testament to new on Satan and I dont agree.
For example in the Garden of Eden, the Serpent tempts Eve. Now, (and this is gonna open up a can) how could a brand new creation of God just come out and lie to Eve like that, what was the motive of the Serpent? It had to be that the serpent was possessed by Satan and hence the "active" Satan. I think I can back this up (Rev 12:9 & Rev 20:2). But that just makes sense, and think about it Satan was active when he tormented Job. And then he goes on to tempt Christ, so I dont see an inconsitancy. Your thoughts? -
*****
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that said, Superman 3 was just plain awful and if this is anything like Supes 3 I am pissed. My only wish is that please Singer don't fuck up Supes 'cuz I am done with the Rat and Fox.
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of this film that is either positive (Devin at CHUD sort of liked it) and negative (what the AICN crowd is thinking) This is from the Village Voice review:
"But thanks to lowered expectations (Ratner's previous film: After the Sunset) and in a season of economically disastrous disaster movies, the mere fact that this Memorial Day juggernaut is not a catastrophe should spell good news for a depressed industry." -
Mildly good. Not great, best parts were the gags, could have been a zillion times better, I'm sure, but that any good movies get made given the money and complications involved . . . I'm cool with just okay. I also have kids under 10, and it was watchable, and I didn't have to explain everything that was happening, which isn't a bad thing. And, I expect X3 will be better than FF--the trailers look a lot better than any of the FF trailers. And leaving it open to killed off characters coming back? Jeeze, that never happens in the comic books. I'm surprised it never turned out that Gwen Stacy got exposed to radiation and super-soldier serum in some previously undisclosed back story, and thus came back in a bikini with metal boots and tiara, calling herself Gwenstacius Prime. Her power would be to fall of bridges and make Spiderman cry.
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You went into this movie already hating it before you even sat down. I think you wanted it to bad so you could say "See, I told you so" With that kind of attitude, what the %$#@ did you expect?
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And yes I meant to write "wanted it to be bad" I don't function well before 11 am.
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Thanks for the review. I feel you man. As a fan of the comics I'm going into this one worried, big time. I'll have to wait and see.
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KevinWillis, that last bit had me laughing harder than I have in weeks! Thank You!!!!
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98% of America loves X3? The movie isn't out yet and I know a number of non-comic book people who said they are going to pass on it. So no, will it be #1 at the box office? Well duh yeah it will but will it have legs through the summer? No. Because people can tell bad movies and this one will have too much violence in there for kids so it won't have the FF pull. I just don't understand the love and respect this movie is getting from TB, they are playing games just to make money and yet you guys stand up in arms to defend it? You guys must work for Fox because if not you're just a bunch of tools.
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While I see that SUPERMAN III has its admirers, I have to wonder at a film that gives Richard Pryor as much screen time as Christopher Reeve, artifical Kryptonite made from cigarette tar, and has villains trying to shoot down Superman with missiles via an Atari videogame. SUPERMAN III, thy name is suck and shall be forevermore...
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Now, I'm not exactly a big Wyrm fan, but I think your argument has a couple of holes in it. The main one is, of course, that if a movie is actually good, it doesn't matter if you expected it to suck. A good movie is a good movie. For instance, if I expect a movie to suck and it turns out to be kind of cool (Dolph Lundgren's The Defender, Bad Boys II) then I usually end up enjoying it even more than I would have if I was expecting something good. I don't think it was the Wyrm's prejudices that kept him from liking the movie. He just didn't like the movie. That doesn't exactly mean that he's right, and it doesn't mean that he's wrong. It just means that he didn't like the movie.
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Mission Impossible 3...didn't see it. X3....sounds like I'll pass on that one as well. Superman I may have too see regardless of what I hear, but that's a pretty big "event" film. I predict that Pirates 2 will rule the summer box office. The first POTC took in close to 300 million and this sequel looks much better so far. Place your bets!
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In the original hebrew, the Satan in the book of Job is not a proper noun, ie it's 'a satan', not 'The Satan'. Satan means something like 'obstruction' or 'obstacle' in the Hebrew. In fact, when Jesus says to Peter "Get behind me, Satan", he's not calling Peter the devil, he's referring to Peter as an obstruction (which makes a lot more sense in the context). ... As for the serpent, well, mythology is replete with crafty animals challenging the gods, why should Genesis be any different? Also, pay attention to what God tells the serpent. He doesn't say anything like 'get ye back to hell'; instead he tells the serpent that he will crawl in the dust and bite at heels ... which is what a serpent does. If God doesn't recognize the devil in the serpent, why should we? And personally, I trust the rabbinical scholars a lot more on this point, especially since they've been studying it a lot longer.
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I've noticed in the last 3-4 years on this site a sociological split in the TB's. The opinions of those born after 1980 are distinctly different than those born before. Post-1980 TBers consistantly harp on "lack of likable characters" (blasting many neo-noir films including Mamet's "Heist"--noir films usually don't have likable characters), and yet will give other movies a lot of slack because "it's just a movie" (see this TB.) Massa made the point he knows the source material and called "X-Men 3: The Last Stand" the equivalent a bad WB/UPN/CW pilot. He hated the wholesale changes to characters and story, in addition to the cluncky dialogue. To most born before 1980 that is a dealbreaker, a motal sin, grounds for a Crusade or a Jihaid (or all the above if it is especially agregious-see 1997's "Batman and Robin" or in Massa's case "X3.") Those born after 1980, usually not so much if it has likable characters and they don't know the source material. Just an observation.-----later-----m
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the first one is very troubled but gets so many things right it turns into a very well-made superheroflick that got the genre in the spotlights again back in 2000. The sequel is one hell of an improvement. From that first Nightcrawler-scene it shows Singer's way more confident and he never slows down (at least until the third act, which is still good but I think it could have been better - there's a lot of running back and forth in that final half hour). I don't think X2's the best comic book movie ever made but when I read about the possibility of this Dark Phoenix storyline being filmed and what it could involve, I have to admit I got excited. It's a shame this third installment will be nothing but mediocre, both from a moviegoer's and fanboy's point of view but I'm gonna give it a fighting chance tomorrow. You know, I'll tell you this: if it was up to me and there would be no "who owns what" debate in the studio system, I'd get Singer back sometime in the future and let him have a go at his X3. It's what could have been when Cameron and Scott wanted to work together on a definitive Alien sequel, ignoring the events in part three and four. That's also what's going on with Superman Returns right now. Hell, it can be done! Marvel's in charge off all their properties right? Come on fellas, whether I end up liking X3 or not, Fox executives had their way and fandom is obviously pissed off. Get Singer back in the game (or hell, get Matthew Vaughn! Or any other director passionate about the stories and characters) and give him a bunch o' cash to film a back-to-back Dark Phoenix trilogy his way!
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Because Christ didnt trust the scholars of his time, even though they had been studying it longer then he. Hmm...
Plus when I go to church, I dont read the original greek/hebrew/latin I read it King James Version standard translation.
And when God is talking to "Satan" it doesnt not seem as if they are talking to an "obstacle" wow, in fact that obstacle talks back to God and tells God that he is going to be cursed to his face. Hmm... that kinda SOUNDS like Satan to me? The point is, what God wanted to get out did, thats what we read when we read the bible (if you read the bible that is). And I agree, Peter wasnt "Satan" but dont just take one little sentence out of place, I am showing you 3 different examples of an "active" Devil. Plus God was referring to the Serpent, but that doesnt mean the serpent wasnt possessed by Satan. Plus the active Satan was cast ouf of heaven for causing "war" in heaven, turning a third if i remember correctly of the angels against God. So if thats not an "active" Satan I dont know what is. Dont attack my "credentials" (been studying it a lot longer) when you dont know mine :)
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I say that they were studying it longer in a literal, he was only in his 30's or you can even go to the time when he was 12 and they were much older sense. Either way, he didnt give their "knowledge" much validity.
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Not sure where you got that from. I'm just expressing what others have expressed. No skin off my back how you want the bible to read.
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One second you claim to be okay with changes in canon as long as the spirit of things is right, and the next you bitch and moan about the lack of a Hellfire Club? Whatever. I'll wait two days to judge this thing myself.
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And Night CRawler was very different from the comics. He came out as some sort of strange tortured soul in the movie while in the comic Kurt is known as smiling swashbuckling goofball. He`s an elf and Erol Flynn in one body. And when he first appeared he was more mysterious than pathetic.
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"And personally, I trust the rabbinical scholars a lot more on this point, especially since they've been studying it a lot longer."
No biggie, im not gonna call you names, and tell you your stupid, or say your nuts, we can have a regular old non special olympics discussion on what we disagree on. But I must say, its not how i want it to read, but whats written that matters. But SOME things can be implied. For example, Cain and Abel took wives, its just implied, that they had sisters, because incest wasnt against the "law" until much later. So thats what im saying. Keep it coming, i have no issues with you. Just disagreements, plus I really think these guys are overreacting on the Xmen thing, heck and they say Firefly fans get rabid, sheesh. -
I can't believe anyone would defend the choices made in regards to Phoenix here. This is equivalent to turning Galactus into a really tall guy who can't leave the buffet line. Seriously, Phoenix was a planet eating cosmic force, and now she's a suped-up Charles Xavier who also has telekinesis? I mean WTF!?!? All you idiots saying shit like "Yeah well if it's a good movie all on its own then who cares about continuity!" Did that work for I, Robot? Was shiting all over a cornerstone of modern science fiction (Asimov's writing) make I, Robot a better film? No, because if you've read the source material then you know how fucked up the movie result was. Asimov HATED killer robot stories, and yet that was what we got, with his name stamped on it to boot. Same damn thing here, we have rich source material that has been shit upon all in the name of.....hell I dunno what to think of this, why did they do this? This might be a good movie, but you people are fools for not seeing the opportunity lost here. This movie is in every way the Batman & Robin of Marvel films.
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simply pointing out that there is NOTHING actually from the Phoenix Saga story at all. I could have lived without the Hellfire club. But what I'm saying is that the storyline doesn't have a single similarity except in name.
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Fernwick_, your right, everyone knows that the most popular version of the bible read back in 100 AD was the king james version of the bible.Tony Mike Hall, I am a geel you are right. But to chalk up the feelings I have about the original series due to youth is a different subject all together. I recently saw the OT and it is still leaps and bounds over the new trilogy. to say that they are fillers to round off the story is a pretty lame excuse.
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What I meant was: when it comes to interpreting the Septateuch (and Job, since it *might* date to the time of Moses), I trust Jewish Scholars over Christian Scholars. Was not specifically referring to you.
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Hey, I am in no way dissing the original. But for us in our time, this is what we were given. But you must admit, even back then they were quarelling over definitions and interpretations of scripture so it will ALWAYS be that way. The point is the spirit of what is being said. And what was said, was Satan was walking, talking, and being an "active" demon or fallen angel or whatever. See what I mean? What I am saying is not disputable, so its being discredited as not original translation, and I respect his opinion, but sooner or later we have to get to context, and in the context that was Satan the Angel, Lucifer the fallen angel, no other way to see it, and im open to your disputing me if I am wrong. Cool?
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At the very least at least we are having a non crazed conversation, at the LEAST thats something of merit, other then some very mild sarcasm. :)
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Time has obscured many things. So I guess eventually when we come down to context it is what we derive or what the most popular belief is at the time. That somewhat relates to this movie aand the storng feelings about it as well. Comic book fans and ther similar types of people will walk into this theater not expecting a certain story line but more or less expecting a certain type of attiude. To watch a movie about your favorite subject matter gives you a different feeling when it seems as if the director/actors/studios are taking it seriously. Nods to the fans while delivering a different story can be done and done well but for those instances when it is not done well it seems like more of an insult.
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And I remember seeing Superman III in the theater, and I liked it, it was a good film. It was just, weird. Kind of out of place, but that doesnt make it bad, now the OPENING to Superman III was stupid, but other then that it was ok in my book. Superman IV however made no sense to me, pierce his skin? Make him mortal? Making up canon as you go alone never works and that is a PERFECT example.
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Never is your final statement more valid than in X3. There is one reference in particular that is PERFECT. It's one of the few great moments. The casting, the presentation, everything was classic and a beautiful nod to the fans. However, the endless stream of other cameos, none of which come close to the good one, simply becomes grating in a very WTF were they thinking sort of way.
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The problem with that movie was that the script cut out too much of the backstory. The direction was dead on, and set the tone for 4 perfectly. Seriously, why are you still fucking whining about what was a great movie?
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Is the same reason why Pork is kryptonite to muslims and jews. Because the meathead monkeys who wrote those works of fiction believed that reptiles were evil and that pork was 'unclean' rather than believing what was actually true, that reptiles are just animals that kind of look evil and ugly, and that Pork, like most other meats, has a specific temperature that it needs to be cooked at to kill parasites. The 'Rabbinical scholars' might as well have spent their lives researching the origin of Hawkman.
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...OT activity being higher than chrth is giving him credit for, Fernwick_, I have to disagree wholeheartedly on your seeming insistence that there is oonly one way to read the Bible. The Bible's a book. Whether you believe it's a history book (and we all know history books are hardly completely objective accounts of history) or a book of myths (which, by their nature, are heavily symbolic and open to interpretation), the experience of any text is comprised of a collaboration between writer and reader. The writer can have whatever intent he wants, but the reader is going to bring his or her own context to the text and create his or her own, often unique (even if similar to others') experience. Aristotle called this catharsis and appl.ied it primarily to Athenian drama, but it's the same thing with the written/read word. And with movies, as it happens, and this is evidenced by the vastly different reactions Massawyrm and Vern had to X3. Vern isn't a comic fan, but he likes movies. Sometimes he even likes cheesy movies, but that doesn't mean he can't distinguish a good one from a bad one (and sometimes he likes those bad ones because they're so deliciously bad). Vern called X3 a good movie in the context of the first two films. I have to respect that. While I can also respect that Massawrym (and Harry and Quint) bring a lot of baggage and unfulfilled wishes to their "reviews" of the film, they are letting that get in their way of actually experiencing the film at all. They're too busy imagining what might've and, in their minds, should've been. That would be fine if they weren't posing as critics who gave the movie its day in court. Their jury was in the moment they read that leaked script and the verdict was handed down when Ratner and Arad revealed this was going to be the last X-flick.
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...But I thought that Phoenix was originally intended to be simply Jean unleashed. No cosmic entity, no "that wasn't her" retcons. Sounds like that's what it is in the movie, and that's what makes sense in the movie world. If they had space aliens or planet eating on film it would just be completely ridiculous. If you're saying the whole thing was mishandled, fine, I can understand that. But fact is, Phoenix as it did end up in the comics wouldn't fit into the movies anymore than a Juggernaut powered by a mystic gem.
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AICN oughta get some spies on this... From Kojima Productions Show Maybe booklet from E3 2006: http://tinyurl.com/lnd7m
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It's not WHAT material from the comics is used, it's HOW. If as Massa says Jean is The Phoenix in name only and does very little, why bother going down that root at all? The comics have all the characters and mytholigy needed if you're not going to use it just call it A Few Odd Folk instead of the X Men and cut Marvel out all together.
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You went from Biblical Interpretation to Aristotlean literature concepts to the X3 flick reviews without missing a beat. Wow. My hat's off to you, mate. (PS: Can I add "doesn't give the devil enough credit" to my Resume?)
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Maybe I should give background info on what I have studied, but i dont think its relevant. Everyone reads the Bible and gets different things. But certain things are doctrine, some are for edification, some just for studying and bettering ones self. But SOME things are IRONCLAD. Now some things are symbolic, and some are shadows and types of things to come. And there are FAR to many examples of this to even scratch the surface, Noahs ark a type of Christ, you must flee to Christ to avoid the flood, as if you flee to the ark, Moses being a type of Christ also, as was Jonah and the whale, in the belly of the whale, Christ in hell for 3 days. So on and so on. But the context I am speaking of was only for this one scene in Job. Where God is talking to Satan, he said that God was being used as a stumblingblock, and I said that in the context of the story, he was a talking and walking and SMACK talking being, not just a symbol. So thats what I meant to say. ANd come on, read it and tell me that Satan is only being referred to in symbolic form here. See what I mean? Thanks!
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He is right, those word flowed from his mouth like fine silk. Very, very good post, even though he misunderstood me. Dang can that guy flow. Pour me a glass of speech dude, I could use some.
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May 24, 2006 3:05:12 PM CDT
Because P of A sucked so bad it crippled the franchise.
by excaliburffolkes
And after it was off to such a marvelous start with the first two films. I never will understand the cult-like hold Cuaron holds over some of the people around here. The response to any criticism of him is always met with exactly the same basic reply -"Cuaron is god. His films are great. No dissention will be tolerated."
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...will enjoy this film. I personally enjoy X-Men, but I don't know anything about any of the mythology, never read any of the comics, only saw a few episodes of the animated series, and genuinely could care less if stuck to either for the movie. It's too bad you didn't get your movie, write your own screenplay and see if someone gives it 2 seconds consideration. Most people will go see this and they'll enjoy it because they don't have the burden of having read the comics 50 times. This is pretty much one of the worst reviews I've ever read on this site. You made this your own personal quest to have the movie YOU wanted, not a movie that would entertain the average Joe moviegoer. Time to get over yourself.
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Not about Cuaron--I don't know Cuaron from a hole in the ground--but about HP3. As a devoted fan of the books, HP3 is the only movie I really enjoyed in the series. HP4 was good, but relied too much on you having read the book. HP1 and HP2 didn't really do it for me. Now, P of A is my least favorite of the books, so that may be why, but I thought the movie did some things better than the book did (Harry and Hermione tossing acorns at themselves in Hagrid's hut, for example).
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;) And Fernwick_, I have to ask if you're coming at the Bible from the standpoint of a Christian or not. Because, as chrth rightfully pointed out earlier, different religions want you to take the Old Testament in slightly different ways. Doesn't make your experience o interpretation of the text any less valid for you. But when you start to presume that everyone needs to read the text in the exact same way you do, you run into trouble. Not even the U.S. Constitution (which, given the relative power and influence of the nation it governs, probably should have some universal meaning) gets that treatment. And it's not half as far removed in time and understanding from its source as even the New Testament of the Bible.
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Singer left for good reasons.
Fox just sucks donkey dick. -
Operating Thetan? I think he's at last a level 7...not sure about his CHA or INT though.
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I take it from the viewpoint of a Christian. But stop for a moment. Seriously, just read that small little snippet from Job and tell me if there is ANY other interpretation that makes any valid sense. I agree with you that there will always be different interpretations, but seriously, if it says, Jesus Wept, and you say he went out for tacos then your way off the mark. Im sorry but thats just right. REGARDLESS of interpretations. Can you agree on that point?
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To be honest I could care less who made it, it's the end result that matters. What I can't understand is the cultish devotion to a director as mediocre as Columbus. The first two were OK but pretty bland, no sense of threat at all. The third had the best perfomrances, the most atmosphere and suspense, the best FX. I know the changes from the first two were controversial, but most of them were more true to the books than the first two movies were, for example the location of the willow and hagrid's hut. Dumbledore was much more true to the book in the third movie. It's ironic that you dismiss all defense of the movie as blanket statements, while you have nothing more specific to offer than "it sucked so bad". And crippled the franchise? What do you mean specifically? Reviews have gotten better with each film, the third had a bit of a dip at the box office, but I think that's more a function of release date, and the fourth came back to the level of the second. "The franchise" seems to be alive as ever, I can't see what skewed perspective would make you see it as "crippled".
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Jesus said to Simon "You are Cephas (aramaic for rock) and upon this rock I will build my church". But because it was written in Greek, there are arguments over Petros vs petra and whether Jesus was truly giving the keys to the kingdom to Peter, etc. 'Jesus Wept' is easy; Get behind me, Satan' which I've already mentioned, is not--and that's only four words.
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I see what your saying. And yes its always up for debate, in my belief it could mean that Peter was being an obstacle to him. It could mean that Satan planted that thought in his head, but in the grand scheme of things does that really matter? Does that change doctrine? Does that affect your salvation? (if you believe in it?) The answer to that is no. And in my opinion and I believe is the correct interpretation, he was not referring to Peter as the rock he would build his church apon. He said, "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18.And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." He first called him "Simon, and then said, Thou art Peter, and apon this rock. The revelation that he was the Christ. Not on a man. But on the fact that God revealed it to him. its the Revelation not the man. Man is fallible but God revealing to man is not. ( I just KNOW im gonna get flamed for that) but thats what I get from that, not him building his church on a man, who will deny him 3 times, who doubts Christ, who needs to be rebuked by Paul later in Acts I believe, but on the revelation that Jesus is Christ. Sooo, how about we talk about Firefly :)
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I would say to you that its a double meaning. For example.
According to Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (1981, Volume 4, page 76), "Petros denotes a piece of a rock, a detached stone or boulder, in contrast to petra, a mass of rock."
I would say that Peter was being called little stone, and that the church would be built upon the LARGER rock, the rock of that revelation to him. Interesting eh? Double meaning, Peter little stone, revelation of Christ to Peter from God, the ROCK of the foundation of the church. Ok, flame away. -
Jesus didn't speak Greek! There are millions of Christians who honestly believe that interpretation but it's wrong. 'petra' is a legitimate Greek word meaning rock, but it's feminine. The author used Petros because it made the word masculine. Petros is not a contemporary greek word. This is one of the excuses certain protestant groups use to attack the catholic church's basis for existence. But the fact is, Jesus would've said Cephas in both cases. That is also why Peter is called Cephas in one of the later books (one of Paul's letters--forget which one). Cephas is the word Jesus used. Not petra. Not Petros.
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...Fernwick_. It takes courage to believe in something, and even more to proudly own and proclaim that belief. The only time you would catch grief from me would be in suggesting that your beliefs are undeniably the only possible correct ones. There's just too many different folks taking their own different paths to salvation for me to believe that God (if he or she exists) would deny any one of them on a technicality like which version of which prayer they said at night before bed. As long as they're good folks and conduct themselves as such, I would hope God loves them all equally despite the nuances of their beliefs. The important point here is that you're willing to acknowledge that the Bible (which is the foundation of a great many ever-so-slightly differing belief systems) is open to interpretation. From this common ground can flow understanding and (dare I think?) mutually beneficial and enlightening discussion. If only we could all converse so calmly and with respect for one another's feelings and beliefs about the X-Men. But clearly that ground is too sacred and that text is never open to interpretation. ;)
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That those words were used, but your also assuming that Christ meant STONE for both cases, but what if the interpretation was right? We have a word for stone, and for ROCK. You give any chance that it was correctly translated for both stone and rock? If not then your saying you know what he was thinking. See what I mean?
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I GOTTA go see this movie now, to watch the King of Kings take on Dark Phoenix! ;) Just kiddin, y'all. As always, enjoying a fascinating TalkBack. (I'm not a diehard X-Men junkie, so I bring no preconceptions to the third film. But I hate Brett Ratner's work with a black passion, so I'm still a-feared o' the final product...) As ever, I bow to the awesome TalkBack might of Childe Roland and chrth, who lend an aura of authority and rational discourse to every TalkBack in which they participate.
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http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/Cephas.htm ... it even repudiates the Vine interpretation.
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Well said. Its just that one instance i was referring to and I am glad you see it, its always open for interpretation, and Ill leave it at that without going into a large tangent.... They get mad at us Browncoats for being obsessed with our film and shows we enjoy, but man these guys here are going nuts over small Xmen details. And I have the comic, subscribed for a long time, for the sake of Pete is a MOVIE. If your going to get upset, read about Darfur or something. Its just a movie. :)
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The X-Men are certainly open to Interpretation...but if they made a movie about Jesus and had three of the Apostles die before the Crucifixion just because their contracts were up - then Had Christ say "I'm the son of God, Bitch" followed up by the Story of the Crucifixion in which Jesus gets his ass whooped in a kung fu fight by Herod and it turns out that Judas is the guy who puts the spear through Christ to put him out of his misery...that's more akin to what we're talking about with "Poetic Liscence"
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a different ChrTh. But thanks ;)
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Doesnt repudiate anything, just asks for more questions that we cant possibly know the answers to. And in situations like that, all you can do is go by the words, and the words used, were stone, and rock. Sorry that it was written that way, but im sure if it was supposed to be different, then Jesus would have spoke Greek, and the greeks would have spoke Aramaic :)
Chew on that for a bit :)
And Roguewriter, I hope you dont think im being irrational, just having a dicussion, :) I wasnt mentioned in your kind words :)
sniff.....
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Classic, massa, absolutely classic. ... And as Denis Leary would say "I'm going to hell for that bit ... and you're all coming with me"
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Because I wasn't already going to hell for my Avatar? Pshaw.
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No comment on those. So how about those X-Men. Any chance of getting Singer back? Or is he going to do a Whedon and not work for Fox again?
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...Jeebus didn't cut through all the bullshit and pass down his guidance in English. Dammit, these ancient mythical deities are either with us, or they're with the babel-talkin terrorists! ;)
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... your greatness goes without saying. Shiny!
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I love browncoats... sigh. While not spreading the Gospel, I try and spread the Gospel of Firefly :)
I figure if every browncoat can get one more browncoat to enjoy Firefly, we can double the gross of the next film (God willing). I am not kidding when I tell you EVERY single person I show the dvd's to, and thats a lot of people, they all go out and buy thier own. Fox is just nuts, totally nuts. -
Since when are the most rational people in a talkback....browncoats?
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...to see a movie where Jesus says: "I'm the son of God, bitch!" And I know quite a few Christians who would, as well. I doubt any of them would take it seriously enough to call for the blood of the people responsible for making it. Not to say there wouldn't be quite a crowd of folks with rather strong political and religous views doing just that, but I personally wouldn't want to be counted among them or even have to sit next to one on a bus. Would you, Massa?
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...cuz you know they say you should never flame a fellow cinephile in anger, but it is on occasion hilarious. ... Hey, Fern, I just (finally) picked up a copy of the bridging comic that linked the series finale to the film... Any reports that we might enjoy additional Reynolds & Co. adventures via comics in the future?
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Buy all the theater tickets and hand them out, and PUMMEL those who dont like Firefly. Those guys are off thier rockers anyway. But quality programming is rare, Arrested Development went off the air, Firefly did, we are in a serious TV wasteland nowadays. Reality TV, ugh, Paris hilton has her own show, its a sad time.
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I just find it odd that the people who usually scream about Browncoats are the tinfoil hat wearers today. You Browncoats are having a nice, peaceful conversation. I love it. Ironic, is all. Defies the stereotype.
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Sadly.... not yet. But there are more comics coming out I guess. Just not the same. Sigh, oh, well, bbl. :)
Fun chats :) -
This line of thinking makes it inevitable. "From the people who brought you SNAKES ON A PLANE... comes a messiah with a stick up his butt. 'What are you moneychangers doin in the housa Gawd? Prepare for the whup-ass!' Dave Chappelle is... JEEBUS CRIMINY, NINJA MESSIAH. Coming in November to wildly picketed theaters everywhere. 'Rock! Stone! Shut ya head! I'm the sonna Gawd, bitch! I do not have time for semantics! Now where's this nigga I got to raise from the dead, shit, I'm all off-schedule!'"
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The biggest thing that worries me about this flick is killing off a bunch of characters for no particular reason, and having others lose their powers. And then at the end, the movie hints that maybe they're not dead, and maybe they didn't lose their powers? That's just poor filmmaking. So here's a question - is this going to be the last one, or will there be an X4?
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Well, instead of pissing on Ratner why not direct a bit of bile (and your charming piss imagery) at golden boy Singer who WALKED AWAY. And, sorry, from a non-comic geek perspective let's calm down and stop pretending either X-Men film was freaking Citizen Kane. Both were good, but pretty uneven with plot holes you could drive the Death Star through, 'characterisation' with all the depth and subtlety of being hit in the crotch with a sledgehammer, and some blah FX and action work. And I just cringed though the infamous 'coming out' scene in X-2 - talk about heavy-handed. Was I supposed to laugh there?
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Because Singer didn't walk away. He was offered Superman and worked out a schedule to shoot it then go immediately into X3. Fox told him to go screw himself and rushed the film to be out BEFORE Superman to sting Singer. From what I hear, Singer is all sorts of broken up about what happened to his series.
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As did us the movie public because now we have a half-hearted attempt at making an X-men film, thanks Singer and Fox. I hope Snakes on a Plane destroys both movies at the box office haha.
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...physically removed from the FOX lot or some craziness like that?
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...is awesome. Come on. It's full of raw emotion and passion, is intelligent, and cracked me up. Where else can you read a good review with Dirty Sanchez references. Well done, Massy.
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A penny for each thought. - Singer really did kind of fuck up the universe in the second movie. I was watching it again on Fox Friday and realized, with the invasion of the school, that the X-Men had all been outed. How do you go back to a universe like in the first movie, when the government knows you've got a superhero base sitting under your prep-school? - Secondly, killing characters because the actors arn't returning is just mindnumbingly dumb. I can understand one or two would have made the movie more emotionally impacted. However Stewart isn't the only bald actor who could take on the Prof. Terry O'Quinn from Lost (Locke) would make an intersting play at the role (and he's already got wheel-chair experience). This franchise should be able to go 20 movies with a new movie every two years and fans would eat it up just like Bond and Star Trek. They should already be workingon the next script an get ready to film. They have such a huge repository of characters and stories they can use, it's just heartaching to think that any studio exec can't grasp this and milk this franchise for all its worth. Milk it mother fuckers milk it... put out a goodproduct and 20 movies down the road and when I'm 60 I'll still be paying the $30/ticket in 2045 to go see it.
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I brought it up, because he gave an example of Biblical Mythology. And referenced Dante and Milton and I asked him to expound on it. Massa didnt answer but others did, thats the jist of it.
Hamferno -
... Friday The Thirteen... The FINAL CHAPTER. Fuck, I thought they were going to make 13. - Don't worry boys and girls, if the expected rate of return on the planned invested budget is higher than the expected returns on competing projects, then I'm pretty sure that there will be a fourth. When all is said and done, the fate of the most powerfull humans in the marval universe is at the hands of a far more powerfull creature - an accountant with a calculator in the real universe.
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Cuaron's folly went way beyond any of his numerous technique, style, and factual errors (which were legion). What Chris Columbus understood about the HP franchise that neither Cuaron nor Newell ever did was its central theme; that hope, goodness, and love are always with us even in the face of the foulest evil. There was plenty of danger and threat in the first two films, it's just that Columbus treated them correctly as external problems to be faced down in the moment, dispatched as quickly as possible, and then moved away from. The characters didn't dwell on the danger, and once it was passed they got back down to the business of enjoying life. They saw evil for what it truly was, alien to their existance and beliefs. Something to be overcome, not a continuing feature of life. Hogwarts and the wizarding world practically glowed and you could see and feel exactly why it was worth fighting so hard to preserve. Its goodness and value endured supreme no matter what evil threw at it. It was a world the audience actually liked being in, which gave us a stake in the fight. Cuaron, on the other hand, completely reversed this theme and made the entire Harry Potter world a dank, bleak place where evil is not just everything, it is the only thing. He took away the Harry Potter world's fundemental goodness, and in its place made evil and darkness its supreme defining attributes. As a result, Hogwarts (and the entire wizarding world) became a filthy, decaying, moldy place populated by melancholy students and diminished grimy adults all languishing about waiting passively to react to what ever came along. Evil was no longer something to be boldly faced and vanquished, but rather cowered from, endured, and accepted. Fear it endlessly between encounters and pray for survival when it arrives. The characters stopped having any fun, became blase, and stopped being worthy of our admiration. There was no longer any joy, any hope, and precious little love in their world. It's a place that no one would particularly want to be anymore, let alone fight to save. It is nothing but unending, boring blackness all the time. In a sense, it's as if Voldemort has already won. That is why I say the movie franchise has been crippled. Where there was once a healthy beating heart, now there is an ashen, oozing, gaping hole straight through the middle; and what's left of the rest is more zombie than living entity. Even when Harry presumably defeats Voldemort at the end of movie #7, it won't really matter because the entire wizarding world has already lost its soul.
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and like most of the reviews have said it's good not great, with moments of true awfulness. There's a great sequence at Jean Grey's house after she's back that looks awesome and is probably the only moment with an emotional resonance. Ian Mckellen's fantastic of course and I really enjoyed Kelsey Grammer's beast however there's just something missing from the whole thing. I remember being blown away at the end of X2 here I was just meh. I haven't read the comics but even I knew the Dark Pheonix saga was a big deal, you never really get a sense of that here. The worst things have to be the awful wire work and Vinnie Jones' Juggernaught. Now I quite like Vinnie Jones, he played for Leeds United back in the day and there's just something really funny about him being in movies, but he's fucking atrocious in this. It's like a cartoon character has wandered into the film. Plus I know his character is meant to be related to professor X which isn't even mentioned or hinted at. Singer gave Mystique and Nightcrawler a scene together in X2 to subtley acknowledge their history in the comics, there's nothing like that. There is some good, Famke Janssen does her best with what she's been given and is pretty effective. I know everyone's commented on the digital anti ageing effect used on Magneto and professor x but it really has to be seen to be believed. Kitty Pryde is adorable and it's a shame that there might not be another film to see more of her. Oh and there's a couple of good scenes between iceman and Pyro. That's about it. Wolverine is ruined in this film. If a lesser actor than Hugh Jackman was in the role it would be a complete disaster but even Jackman can't carry off the final scene between Wolverine and Jean Grey. Oh and it's annoying how the bad guys all wear black leather and have tatoo's, just walking talking cliches. And I hope no ones a massive fan of Angel because he's in it for about five seconds. I was sat next to a massive X men geek who was utterly devastated by the whole thing. For me the saddest fact is what this film could have been. It should have been incredible whereas it's just adequate. The scene after the credits is pretty cool though.
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...but go to a Comic book movie make me snicker derisively. It's sort of like going to a stock car race, and not knowing how to drive a car... do you REALLY not have something better to do with your time?? .. "Duh.. I like how they go around the track over and over and over George! I really REALLY dooo..."
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Superman 3 was just plain insulting with Pryor as some computer genius. Remember this was the early 80's when wierd freaky people were becoming millionaires overnight like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. These wierd freaky people wern't clueless idiots though, they were brilliant folks. Pryor's character was this dipshit who just happened to be a computer genius - that he didn't even understand what he was doing "he just does it". That's not genius, it's a luck little shit. Even at the age of (I think i was 9), I thought that it was just an insulting character with a stereotype I would expect to come out of some shithead who wasn't smart enough to comprehend there is a difference between being an eccentric genius and being an idiot.
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Seems to be just how I felt after seeing Return of the King. Oops, I forgot. That's offically one of the "successful" film three's to AICN. Mori seemed to like it, but I'll make up my own mind.
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I hope this movie rocks
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It was Batman & Robin that was a steaming spatter of diarrhea with tapeworms writhing in the pile.
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they sucked those screen writer bitches dicks so hard their eyes went into their sockets.
Right on AICN tear those bastards a new one
I for one can't believe the positive spin on this -
Some of you may remember me defending this movie a couple months back. Well I saw it last night, and I gotta say...meh. I'm not gonna blow up like some people, but definitely Empire:Jedi, T2:T3 as people have been saying. I mean, (SPOILER) who would have thought that Colossus DOESN'T fight Juggernaut. What the H? Colossus had ONE LINE! Come on. I hope we get a director's cut with about an extra hour. No Nightcrawler justification, but Kelsey was great but underused. It just felt like EVERYONE was underused. I'm such a huge fan that I'll probably see it a couple more times, just to get stoned and do something. I'm a big fan of getting stoned in the movie theater family bathroom. Anyway, enjoy the movie for what it is: An X movie we've waited a long time for, and hopefully the next one will be better. They can write away any of the movie's mistakes in the next one if they want.
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First off I'll say that I am not going to be trashing thecrew here at this highly sucessful site. Those of you looking for some sort of semi-clever bon mot should go elsewhere. Most of the people on this talk back doing that particular thing sound like nothing more than lawyers with a grudge. That said:
I actually enjoy Massaswrym's review. Something that was said about theboys here, however, struck a cord. Goddard was a film reviewer and journalist. So was Truffaut. The took their opinions about film and created the French New Wave movement. Why don't the reviewers here at the site who have such concrete and violently defended positions make some films of their own. I don't mean wait around for some studio suit to drop "John Carter" in your lap...I mean grab some mini DV cameras, some talent, then post the goddamn films or show them in Austin. Seriously. You have the infrastructure to do something like this. Quit licking the studio balls and start kicking them. Turn your opinions into a movement. Wasn't it Goddard who said the best way to critisize a film is by making another?
For those of you who go after these boys because they haven't made it in the industry? Why don't you shut your holes, grab some equipment and make some flicks. The gear is too cheap and readily available for this sort of thing not to be happening on a mass scale. Fuck the Sundance styled "Independent" film scene (I used to be part of it...it is just a phoney bullshit as the "mainstream".) Let's all get out there and kick out the jams a little bit. It is afforbale for there to be a film movement equivalent to garage rock. Let's fucking do it. I know I am...I think we all should. Lastly- once in the late 80's Coppola said something like- "The next great American film will be made by a four year old girl with a Pixel Vision camera." -
Heh - the whole French New wave thing has come up a couple of times. And believe you me, we wish we were that fucking cool. Of course many here at AICN are working on films. Of course Harry has his projects in the works (including the original horror film he's been talking about Together 4Ever), Mori's been working at it for years. A few of the other boys have things in the works. Myself, I'm currently putting a film together - but it's not yet near ready to be talked about. Believe me - the AICN crew are not only film lovers in the review sense of the word. We're just not egomaniac enough to compare ourselves to Goddard and Truffaut. Yet ;)***Oh, and Coppola said 12 year old. And I was in her film last year - it was called Pathogen.
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Small world. Er, galaxy. Er, solar system.
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See? We found a common ground. We are all browncoats, and hell according to massa the most rational people here :) and on THAT I agree :)
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I work in IT, and I've met some real idiot savants. Not as bad as the Pryor character, sure, but not totally unrelated. Some people are instinctively good at computers, even if they're not geniuses.
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It's not a big surprise that XMen 3 disappoints. After seeing the incredibly boring Red Dragon, and considering that it should have been anything but boring considering the source material, I knew that at best it would be a middle of the road entertainment only. I hear Ratner is directing the next Hillary Duff movie BTW. So much wasted potential.
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also, it is a shame Ratner did not use this same software in Red Dragon where it REALLY needed it. Another glaring irritant that makes Red Dragon a joke to watch along with the grating movie bridging device at the end.
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I knew the quote was along those lines. Seriously. I dig what you guys have to say here on this site and I am truly impressed with what Harry Knowles has been able to accomplish with his guerilla style of journalism. I'm just ready to see some output around here. Bogdonavich(sp) was a film journalist also...and he took what he had learned and the opinions he had formed and made "Last Picture Show".
My main point, which like most things I try to say get's drowned in digressions and polemics, was that it is AFFORDABLE for all of us to be out there making little films. They don't have to be features. They don't have to have stars. They don't have to make any fucking sence! They just have to be from somewhere around our guts by way of our brains. Hell- they don't even have to make any money. It shouldn't be about that. Many of my friends are hardcore Bluegrass mucsicians who have never made a dime at it...that has never stopped them from playing and getting off on every hot dogging note. I would like to see the people here,not just the journalist, but the readers get fired up, fed up, and make some statements with their cameras instead of their keyboards. The state of maintstream film now is right where mainstream society is as a whole...in bad need of an enema. -
Every major and minor city from Austin, to Nashville, to Richmond, to Raliegh, to Aspen hasbars and places to show your films. We need a real grass roots movement. Not something like the 90's independent film scene that ended up just pretending to be big time, then being assimilated by the big time.
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The Dark Phoenix Saga is horeshit.
Sure, it's an important event in comicdom...as is Amazing Fantasy #15, but have you every read AF 15!? IT'S A STEAMING TURD (as is most of Stan Lee and Claremont's works)
The hellfire club blows... Sebastian Shaw Blows... The original Phoenix concept blows... You seriously wanted the M'kran crystal and Liandra to show up? or what? The only way I figured I'd be REMOTELY ok with Dark Phoenix appearing in this film is if they revamped the origin. I hope there is nothing remotely cosmic about it.
I'll be there at Midnight tomorrow.. -
But don't worry, perspective will come with time. Take it from an obsessed Batman fan. This review is funny because it reminds me of when I was young and crazy and Batman Forever came out. I was probably even more over the top than Massa is here, but I have to say NO WAY is this even remotely comparable to the crushing blow of Batman Forever. Not only did that movie "ruin" the characters of Batman, The Riddler and (most painfully) Two Face, it changed the cast, switched to a gaudy, ridiculous style and even added a various artists rock soundtrack for crying out loud! And then of course Batman and Robin is ten times worse. I actually saw X-Men 3 at a preview screening, and I guess I should count myself lucky that I'm not a Marvel guy. But even if I hadn't enjoyed it (I did) I think I'd be willing to admit that it is very faithful to the style, tone and pacing of the other two movies. I just can't see how it's such a huge drop from the other two. If anything, Ratner should be criticized for not taking it in new directions and putting his own stamp on it. I really enjoyed the other two but to be honest I never quite got the worship of the second one. X3 has the same sort of goofiness/seriousness as the other two but is a little more epic, a lot more emotional and, frankly, a little less corny (time is never stopped, for one thing). Massawyrm says that it doesn't connect emotionally with the audience, but I have to disagree. My girlfriend (who only reads comics on occasion) actually cried during one scene. I didn't get that far but I did find myself very worried about the fates of the characters and elated by some of the things that Massa is so pissed off about. I predict that several years from now, after Massa has made peace with the fact that the movie wasted an opportunity to be the Dark Phoenix saga, he will happen to see the movie again and think, "huh, I guess that wasn't that bad after all." The idea that Ratner is pissing on all the fans is especially silly considering how much he bends over backward to please the fans who wanted to see the Danger Room, Sentinels, "I'm the Juggernaut, bitch!", and all that stuff. Ironically, Bryan Singer is NOT a comic book fan, and Brett Ratner is. (I still like Singer better but I think Ratner pulled it off.)
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I know it sounds cliche but: Calm down dude! It's 'just' a comic book movie. You know what they say about opinions. I mean in "reality" that they got Rogue and partly Wolverine "wrong" in the first film is merely an opinion, yet you state it as "canon". It's all opinons bro, your entire review, personal taste. There's no such thing as a 'final authority' when it comes to The X Men, or anything else for that matter.
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That they are taking these charactes and stories that we love and expecting us to come and give them money because they are making them into films. However, they bastardize them and treat them with contempt and laziness, etc and still expect us to give them money. That is what angers me and why I sure won't pay to see this..those fuckers won't get a dime out of my pocket. If they want to do a crappy X-Men movie, then make up an entirely new story...don't take the story from the comics and change it for the worse. But these writers are hacks who probably blew someone at Fox to get the gig...I don't expect anything better from them, but it still sad. Any of you who pay money to see this crappy film should be ashamed of how you are funding the creation of shit like this.
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because you don't have the willpower to wait until it goes to the cheap theaters or dvd. I do. I won't contribute to Hollywood fecal matter this summer. Save your money and fo find some crazy older movies to buy online (like Dennis Hopper's INSANE documentary American Dreamer or The Dion Brothers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp-sBvq9Mic or go to pimpadelicwonderland.com and buy one of the hundreds of unreleased gems he has for sale). My point is, SPEND YOUR MONEY ON SOMEONE OR SOMETHING ELSE THIS WEEKEND!
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I don't think he died, but he was an amazing character that was rendered utterly useless by Singer's disrespect for the character and the source material. Lady Deathstrike was litterally killed in the 2nd film. Of course the first film followed that classic Uncanny X-Men plot where Magneto tries to turn everyone into mutants from the top of the Statue of Liberty, which of course turned Kitty Pride's hair white, oh wait, I mean Jubilee's hair white. Well, that proves the first one respected continuity and source material. The second one follows with that amazing plot from the Clarmont era where normal people with stun guns walk into the school and destroy every X-man and New Mutant with little to no resistance. So now that we've established how the first two films totally respected the characters and source material and were panel for panel recreations of the best the books had to offer, now we'll rip on the third one for "ruining continuity"? You don't have to like this one, but if you hate this for reasons that apply to the first two and you love them, then you're a hypocrite and a fucking cunt.
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Or getting a bootleg shipped in from Thailand. I won't pay for it but I have to know.
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If he wasn't banned by studios for that shit, I don't think he's gonna get banned anytime soon. Ever since his name came up with X2, I dreaded that he would write X3, thankfully Hayter saved the script on that one.
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That'd be a sight.
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Dang it all....
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the whole thing about mythology and comic books and the 'great secret.' True. But I don't think Raimi got the 'spirit' of Spiderman at all. I enjoyed those movies, but Maguire is certainly not the Peter Parker I know and love (you know, the one who dealt with his problems by making jokes, not whining and crying all the time). So I'll have to see it for myself to see if I agree with you on how characters are treated. Oh and by the way, Rogue and Iceman did have a brief relationship when they went off on a roadtrip together for several issues back in the 90s. But relationships are throwaway things in comic books. In X-Men, pretty much the only relationship they would have to have intact is Scott and Jean.
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...is Scott and Jean." Until she dies and he starts fucking Emma Frost...
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I to has my doubts based on the screenwriters, and from what I read it looks like the movie can be enjoyed as a alternate universe Xmen.
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I want to say that I don't agree with the people in the talkbacks saying "it's just a popcorn movie, it's not supposed to win oscars" and all that shit. I think this movie, just like the other two, is a little more thoughtful than anybody would demand. The whole plot about the "mutant cure" says alot about the real world while also working perfectly for crazy mutants flying around and punching and shit. I think those are some of the best "popcorn movies" when they deliver on more than one level. I'm sorry you comic boys are disappointed but saying that the movie is lazy just because it's not the same as the comics is wrong in my opinion. Also I thought it was interesting when Mr. Worm talked about mythology because there is a scene in this movie where Magneto does something completely mythical or even biblical. Anyway for the record here is my comic book movie score card so you can compare to see if maybe you'll agree with me. DAREDEVIL: Absolutely fuckin retarded. If that's really faithful to the comics then I have to question you boys reading those comics. SPIDERMAN 1 & 2: I enjoyed these movies although they didn't toss my salad like they did some of you. BATMAN BEGINS: probaly my favorite of the recent comics pictures although I wish the action was more exciting. HULK: on the other hand this might be my favorite, I like the combination of ridiculous action and arty contemplation. And Nick Nolte's classic over the top performance. FANTASTIC FOUR: didn't see because it looked really fuckin dumb. GARFIELD: I don't care what you boys say about it being faithful to the comics, that is not a good movie. That cat is an asshole I don't know why you want to watch him complain for 90 minutes. PUNISHER: I actually liked this one, I was surprised. I watched it for laughs but I thought it was a pretty good revenge movie with some good weird touches although I didn't need the cars exploding into the shape of a giant skull. HELLBOY: pretty good but one of Del Toro's weakest. BLADE 1&2: both masterpieces. BLADE 3: not worthy but I enjoyed watching Blade again. A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE: best movie of last year although it turns out it is completely different from the comics and therefore an outrage to all Americans. BARBARELLA: hottest comic book movie ever, hell maybe I should read that comic book if you know what I mean hubba hubba.
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Better than both Batman AND Superman. Chew on that, bitches. ahhh skeet skeet skeet
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Okay so for what it's worth I'm gonna weigh in. No one here is gonna care what I say but fuck it that's what the internet is for. Maybe one day I'll share an opinion in a context where it will be worth a damn but today this is all I got. I watched Xmen3 last night and thought it was fun. I've not read the comics and I more or less enjoyed it. But even I can see that it's a really flawed, rushed film. All the same, it was fun for what it was, you know? That being said, I can really get why people like Harry et al would be upset about this movie in a big way and I think some of you dudes need to back off. It's easy for you and I to be cool about it when we're not invested in the material... but I know what it is to really care about a franchise, and if someone came along and fucked up a story that I love it would really get to me. I mean we're not just talking about a lame sequel here... we're talking about a story that's already been written and is adored by a legion of fans being adapted in name only and completely fucked around. It's just unnecesary and is evidence of a real disrespect for the fans on the behalf of the studio. So yeah I guess what I want to say is that there are two equally legitimate sides to this debate. I'm not really down with the Xmen and as such I got what I paid for out of this film... a mostly fun but slightly underwhelming action movie. But I can appreciate the position of those who are pissed off. I know that it would have to be eating you guys up and I respect that. So yeah I just wanted to say that not every non comic reading viewer who kind of enjoyed this picture on face value thinks you guys are nuts for being riled up. If anything I'm actually impressed by your earnestness in expressing your geekdom, and I really hope you guys get to see this story play out on screen one day in the way you deserve. As for me... I'll go back to praying for quality versions of the movies I want to see one day. ...Back to the Future 4 or Ghostbusters 3 anyone? Who's with me?
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May 25, 2006 2:03:58 AM CDT
Yeah and Brett Ratner screwed Lindsay Lohan...blah blah
by stewiegriffin
it's still going to make a zillion dollars at the box office cause the average person doesn't care about who directed it or who wrote it or what anyone on this site had to say...so what's the point? There isn't one cause you guys don't like anything anyway.
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Hmmmm interesting point. Let's all think of things we all (more or less) can agree is something we "like" as a collective. History of Violence? Batman Begins? Ghost World? American Splendor? Superman I? Armageddon? (No that's just Harry)
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xmen suuuuuucks
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Face it. It is too massive of a deal for the movies unless you go and make it a trilogy. Big fan of it but they should have just used the Mutant Cure storyline. Just my opinion.
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You angry nerds represent probably less than 1% of the moviegoing audiance. The rest of us "regular", less entitled people will see this and no doubt have a great time. I can't wait to see it.
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Somehow, Roger missed all the ugliness that AICN has seen...? Roeper gave it thumbs up, also. Someone's credibility is heading south -- my money's heavily on AICN's.
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Gee, can SOME of the clueless TB'ers and especially reviewers here, now at least understand why Christians were a mite upset with DaVINCI CODE ruining THEIR cherished mythology??? One that counts for a wee bit more than a COMIC BOOK!!? And with, frankly, a lot less whining and railing toward the perps. It never fails. Ya can't separate liberalism from blatant hypocrisy no matter how hard they work to ignore it. And, less importantly, we should be sooo lucky if X3 was another T3. Which oh, BTW, got 72% on RT and grossed almost a half BILLION dollars WW. Plus it was faithful to the first two and did nothing to ruin the franchise. And, while popping balloons, X2 IS the greatest (and most difficult) comix adaptation, hands down. And the best one Singer's ever gonna do. Sorry Supes.
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From the retarded slapstick opening, to a former bum becoming a superhacker, to the IDIOTIC supercomputer BULLSHIT, it was all shit. Seriously, richard pryor on skis, jumps off a 50 story building and LIVES. Come on, you don't have to nitpick to call supes 3 complete and utter shit. Oh and watching superman get manhandled by a trucker, high class. That said, x2 and spidey 2 are close in my book for awesomeness. But there weren't any ejaculatory moments like when nightcrawler rescued whatsername when she fell outta the plane. Plus I'm getting tired of the tragic villains in spidey where each villain starts off a sweet old man, then is corrupted by science then has his moment of redemption/clarity at the end. Heres hoping spiderman 3 will have some outright pricks who are just bastards.
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saw it here in melbourne, australia today (thurs) and couldnt agree more with all the negetive reviews. it really is a shitfest, if u dont give a shit you wont, but even if you are a casual viewer you have to realise several parts of the film just dont fit, they seem rushed, paced wrong, the deaths are absurd etc. the main sticking point is nobody who sees this is going to want to see it again at cinemas. yes it has a few (note, a few good bits) its overall crapiness hinder it from being anything than a greatly-disapointing-only-one-tenth-good-movie. if star wars fans were angry about the prequels and F4 fans were pissed at that effort, xmen fans are gonna destroy the earth, simply with their rage. one of the most angering movies ive ever seen.
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Massa gets it exactly right regarding this. I'd take completely different changes to this story, as long as the CORE of it is there...the emotion, the corruption, the sacrifice. Famke had actually earned the cred in the first two films to seem worthy of the material. But I have a hard time with no Hellfire, and certainly with no Cyclops. Geez. That element gone alone is bad enough. If you have no Cyclops, you might as well have no Phoenix force. Piss it all away. I just wish they'd avoided the Phoenix storyline altogether...saved it for another film and another filmmaker. To take as many fanboy moments and jam-pack them into a single film and not get any of them right is 1000% times worse than not having them at all and disappointing us by their omission. Now they've kept someone with talent and time from doing it right next time. Idiots.
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May 25, 2006 8:51:41 AM CDT
Blanket-Man, I wouldn't put too much faith in Ebert.
by excaliburffolkes
He openly admits that he cuts most big budget films slack, and really has to hate one to give it a bad review and low star rating. As he puts it, he'd hate for his negative opinion and national popularity to adversely impact a movie's box office numbers.
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id just like to say i am in no way a xmen comic book fanatic, i just think these films, because of that source material had such scope to be great. it is evident the powers that be, be it rothman, fox or the rat just didnt respect that source material fully. put it this way, think of somthing you like and invest a lot of support in your mind for (bad phrasing, sorry) say its ur fav. band for instance. a movie is made about band x. it is totally wrong, the characters are wrong, the events are wrong, its rushed, poorly written etc, ud be angry and disapointed it was represented so poorly wouldnt u. i think, because of this x-fans have a right to be downright filthy with x3.
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"I wouldn't put too much faith in Ebert." Really, I don't. I mean, he gave my two all-time favorite action movies (DIE HARD and SPIDER-MAN) mild thumbs-down, so I often wonder what movies he watches. I do think that he's looked at as America's Movie Critic, though, and if any one guy influences a flick's B.O. (and that's a big IF), I'd say he's our 500-pound gorilla. But I will say this: When he absolutely hates a movie, Ebert's usually spot-on. So I'm not convinced that X3 is as God-awful as most of the AICN team seems determined to convince us that it is. I'll find out at 12:01 tonight (Friday morn, technically!).
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Only done it in a way that wasn't at all true to the book, but was still entertaining. Then both the religious right, and the anal comic book fucks would be protesting.
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Sorry if I gave that impression. I agree he's often quite accurate in the movies he gives poor ratings (except for the occasions when he goes off on a film's political or religious views). He's also fantastic when talking about film influence and history. He knows his stuff. I was just saying he openly tempers his opinions on big films. Kind of admirable, in a sense, because he might just be that famous and influential.
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there is a campaing to destroy this film, and I see it now that I've just come from X3 - one of the finest action films I've ever seen. Fuck AICN. Ban me. I care not!
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was that one of the most dangerous threats was that crazed lotto-ball machine. That thing was a death trap on wheels that nearly crippled the Daily Planet. I hope that thing has a cameo in Superman Returns. I've written Goyer and Miller on many occasions that it needs to be given an appearance in Smallville. They could even devote an entire episode towards it and still probably have a better episode than anything from last season. Oh, and X3 looks weak. Look at what Peter Jackson did with Lord of the Rings and tell me they couldn't have pulled the same thing (or close to it) with X-Men had the right people been behind it.
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I liked Superman III all right, when I first saw it. Although it has been at least fifteen years, I thought it was an okay flick. Of course, I had had such high hopes (or personal expectations) for Superman II and had been so bitterly disappointed, from Supes giving up his powers and his mom doing Brando's job, to the magical finger-lifty powers of general Zod and the opening sequence that didn't have the phantom zone being shattered by the missile Supes sends out into space in the first movie, that I went into Superman 3 with very low expectations, and was pleasantly pleased that my low expectations led to an enjoyable experience of the film. I duplicated this strategy with Superman IV, and went in with very low expectations, and was still disappointed by how appallingly bad and stupid and vapid and vacuous that film was and remains. But, for me, Superman I is the ultimate superhero movie. Superman II was bitterly disappointing (my first lesson in the dangers of letting my fanboy fantasy expectations get the better of me), Superman III was okay, and Superman IV was poop. So far, X-Men 1 was good, 2 was better, and if 3 is, in reality (not the Harry Knowles reality, but actual reality) almost as good as 1, then the X-Men series has had a much better run than the Salkind-era Superman. And if any of the spin-offs are better than your average episode of Justice League on Cartoon Network, then they will be the greatest American films every made, in comparison to trash like Supergirl.
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I agree with Kevinwillis.net (plug)
the Xfilms have been getting progressivly better, but of course Superman I is the torch bearer, the best of the comic films. Sure the effects arent up to todays standards, but come on, Christopher Reeve, freaking Marlon Brando, Gene Hackman, John Williams score.. how can you beat that? Spiderman II was good, very very good, but the talkbacker who said he is too whiny is correct, the Spiderman I remember and I had them all at the time, Web of SM, The Amazing, Peter Parker the, SM was witty, funny, smart ass, i would read the comics and laugh. But this guy is in a constant state of depression and self reflection. Otherwise it would be darn close to taking the title from Superman I.
Hamferno
www.theidiottestament.com -
And I dont mean Spiderman I, I mean Spiderman II. Thats the really good one.
Hamferno
www.theidiottestment.com -
You didn't catch that??
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I gave up on this review by the umpteenth paragraph banging on about comic books and mythology. You seem by this point to be just a ranter with an unopen mind.
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Still stand by your review? "Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete." That wrinkly old dude knows what he's on about... :-P
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While I've certainly gotten over the anger and heartbreak of the film, it's still a pretty crappy movie that will anger some and force others to shrugg. There are gonna be plenty who see this and regard me and people like me as over reacting fans. But few are really gonna like it. Even fewer will watch it again. As I said, Most are gonna see it as mediocre with a few, brief, moments of greatness. And they'll say "Well, maybe the next one will be good." But once tomorrow hits, there's gonna be a lot of angry and disappointed people. And this will by far be ranked pretty low in the scale of superhero films. It's not close to being Punisher bad, but caught between a gun to my head choice of watching this or Fantastic Four again, I'd watch Fantastic Four.
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Hopefully there will be an X3 dscussion TB so we can see how everyone else reacts to it. I'm quite interested to see what the general consensus is. Good to hear you aren't letting it eat you up. That is the path to the Dark Side...
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I talked to Harry about this a few hours ago and he told me to count on it. I, myself, can't wait to see how people respond to the thing. Although anyone who thrashed me here that bitches there tomorrow will hear the sound of the world's smallest violin playing for them.
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have had some hostility directed at you. (But you are used to it by now right? :-P) I'm still hoping that you guys were 'too close' to it and that someone who hasn't had a lot of X-men contact (like me) will still appreciate it. Anyway, peace.
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Thursday or Friday? It's out today in the UK
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simple as that. .
i'm sure it's a terrible dark phoenix movie but it's not called x men; dark phoenix is it?
it's cool watch it. if the worst comic book movies made were this good we'd be happy.........
if you want the comics. buy the comics. i do -
Or my talkbacks. Either way, you perfectly explained every problem I have with this movie. I haven't seen it, but I -know- it based on reviews, spoilers, script reviews, etc. The way it plays out, to me, is irrelevant. I know they kill off and de-mutant characters, and I know they do this because they can't get the McKellan's and Berry's of the world back for a fourth film. Keep preachin, Massa!
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...IS BY NOT GOING TO THIS MOVIE! GEEK OR NO GEEK. FAN OR NO FAN. THE ONLY WAY TO EFFECT CHANGE IS BY NOT GOING TO SEE THIS MOVIE! EVEN IF YOU HAVE A MORBID FASCINATION WITH SEEING THIS MOVIE - DON'T G0 - & HOLLYWOOD WILL GET THE PICTURE NEVER TO HIRE BRETT RATNER AGAIN, OR THOSE SCREENWRITERS! IT'S THE MOST POWERFUL WAY THAT YOU AS A FAN CAN EFFECT CHANGE - WITHHOLD YOUR MONEY FROM THE STUDIOS - HIT 'EM WHERE IT HURTS - IN THE BOX-OFFICE - OR QUIT COMPLAINING CUZ YOU SUPPORTED THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. IF EVERYONE NEVER GOES TO SEE A MEDIOCRE MOVIE AGAIN THE QUALITY OF THE PICTURES WE SEE WILL INEVITABLY RISE AGAIN - WE ARE ALL TOO HUNG UP ON MEDIOCRITY - DON'T GO!!!
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...IS BY NOT GOING TO THIS MOVIE! GEEK OR NO GEEK. FAN OR NO FAN. THE ONLY WAY TO EFFECT CHANGE IS BY NOT GOING TO SEE THIS MOVIE! EVEN IF YOU HAVE A MORBID FASCINATION WITH SEEING THIS MOVIE - DON'T G0 - & HOLLYWOOD WILL GET THE PICTURE NEVER TO HIRE BRETT RATNER AGAIN, OR THOSE SCREENWRITERS! IT'S THE MOST POWERFUL WAY THAT YOU AS A FAN CAN EFFECT CHANGE - WITHHOLD YOUR MONEY FROM THE STUDIOS - HIT 'EM WHERE IT HURTS - IN THE BOX-OFFICE - OR QUIT COMPLAINING CUZ YOU SUPPORTED THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. IF EVERYONE NEVER GOES TO SEE A MEDIOCRE MOVIE AGAIN THE QUALITY OF THE PICTURES WE SEE WILL INEVITABLY RISE AGAIN - WE ARE ALL TOO HUNG UP ON MEDIOCRITY - DON'T GO!!!
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It's either the best movie ever made or it's the worst. There's no sane, balanced criticism, only mindless hyperbole.
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& sorry about the CAPS!
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would I go watch it? Hell yes!!! The evil/good Superman fight was well worth the price of admission. Unlike Batman Forever, which had no redeeming factors whatsoever. So is X3 more like Superman 3 or Batman Forever?
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Fox just wouldn't pay up and the usual suspects are pissed. Is X3 a great movie? Nope. Is it terrible? Nope. It is good fun. Hell, X1 sucked and these guys sucked its dick. Why? Fox paid.
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Can marvel PLEASE start working on getting all the rights into one place and do some cartoons with crossovers and whatnot. You know, Warner Bros level quality at the very least? Start to PREPARE now, and get put some THOUGHT into the animation style and the teams you assemble to put it together. Do one or two movies a year, and no more than that. PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES. You have a huge catalog of amazing (and spectacular) scripts in your library, and great characters. Why do you constantly fuck it up by surrendering control to the highest bidder (or lowest when you commission it)? You're going to run yourself into the ground...AGAIN.
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May 25, 2006 11:35:32 PM CDT
Sorry to disappoint, but this film has all the flaws
by heywood jablowme
that the Wyrm, et al mentioned. Stretch this thing out 30-45 minutes and trade in some of the one-liners for character moments and this would have been pretty good. Probably not as good as the 2nd, but definately better than what you're about to see. I think the powers-that-be knew this and hence you have absolutely NO marketing for the film. Where are the action figures? Fast-food tie-ins? How 'bout chips & soda packaging? Not there because it's a weak film that they put together at the last minute. Too bad, it could've been great had they waited until Christmas. From up here on the grassy knoll, it looks like Faux might have been trying to give Singer and the competition the finger after all. Oh well, saw it once & I'll buy the DVD, congrats Faux, you got my money but not my respect. I know what you want more.
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The second X-Men film especially, but the first to some degree, got the essense of the characters right. It would be silly to ask for panel-for-panel stories, except for Sin City of course. Nobody is doing that, they are just asking that the essense is transfered to the screen. It sounds to me like in this case, it wasn't. I may see it anyway to see who I agree with.
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And i saw a standalone movi or an alternate reality story. This is totally out of cannon and it sucks, but this is only what we got. I just got relaxed and saw it. It
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I too sat through the worst movie of all life. This was like, hemhorroids bad, like, summer flu bad. I think it stings so much worse because X2 rocked our fucking socks off. I've been bitching to my girlfriend endlessly since walking out after Xavier's death, and I feel bad for her. But I really wish there was some way to get my $8 back. My God this was like, unbelievable. The worst of all insults, but the sad thing is - they got my money, they'll get yours and a lot of others' money as well, and no lessons of fucking over great licenses will be learned.
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...and LOVED it! I honestly don't know where all this bile towards the movie is coming from - seriously guys, get some sex and chill out! The audience I was with gave it a really positive response. For every nitpick over not following comic lore, no one is mentioning the great little touches such as "Oh my stars and garters" and Multiple Man's T-shirt design! Why don't all you 'visionary' critics get off their arses and get into the film industry and start making the movies they wanna see!
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I agree with Sloughbear, what's wrong with the reviewers on this site?
Your problem is you are judging this movie based entirely on the comic books you read...GET OVER IT!!
If you review this movie based on the movie alone, it meets most expectations.
Yes - some characters had next to no screen time, to do otherwise would entail making a 4 hour movie.
Yes - some of the deaths were "cheap".
No movie can EVER please everyone.
Stop reviewing movies on what you expected and start reviewing them on what you saw.
Jeez. -
were too many charachters and an overeliance on effects. That and a huge lack of irony of two groups of Mutants slaughtering each other on how to protect Mutants huh!
Best things about it were Ian Mckellen and Hugh Jackman who stole the show.
To be honest you could kill off the rest and just keep those two on screen and it would be alright by me. -
Don't be a tool. When you take on an adaptation, there is a certain measure of expectation you'll have to live up to or you get garbage like X3. Scroll up and read the article this talkback is for, you dumb shit.
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.... they'd made it a bit more clear how dangerous she was. All you really see is that she demolishes a suburban house and a Californian tourist attraction. Even if it was just a short scene in the Presidential bunker where someone said the Earth was in danger of cracking in two or the sun exploding because of the storm Dark Phoenix was raising at the end.
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I'm really glad you've seen the movie, but as it's only just opened that means there are a lot of us who haven't and didn't know (or want to know) major spoilers like the one YOU JUST BLURTED out with no fucking forethought or warning whatsoever. Thanks, fuckface. And YOU call someone else a dumb shit! Don't give me the 'talkback is fair game' pathetic excuse for an argument either, jackarse. Fine. You hated it. But that doesn't give you the right to ruin it for everyone else. Fucker. I feel bad for your girlfriend too.
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... that certain posters, who shall remain unamed, by me at any rate, always manage to work some reference to their girlfriend, regardless of whatever they happen to be relating? "Went with my girfriend..." (Do we care?) "She said..." "She left...". Face it guys, you ain't foolin' nobody.
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TB needs an "Edit Function" Harry!
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X3 was decent. x-1 rocked. ROCKED.
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Hey Massawyrm is there any mention of Cain being Xaiver's half brother in the movie? I seen the clip where Magneto breaks him out. It seemed like it was the first time they ever met.
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One of the many 'fan' problems with this film is that Juggernaut is Juggernaut in name only. He barely looks like Juggernaut, doesn't act like him, doesn't have his history, story...anything. Except the name.
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Yeah - cos there was a spare hour and a half time in the movie to explain/explore the Juggernaut's mythos - dicks! Good thing there's nothing else to worry about in the world than whether Phoenix was wearing her gold sash or not!!!!! Guys - I LOVE the X-men...films, cartoons, comics etc but GET SOME FUCKING PERSPECTIVE!
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No one's mebtioned the incredible score for the film!
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It's quite interesting, seems to be on the whole positive with the occassional melt down. If this is the reaction to X3, I think the site may explode when Superman Returns hits! ;-)
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...good point about Lady Deathstrike. It's like how everyone is going on about how brillaint Nightcrawler was in X2 (which he WAS) but then moaning that there was no Mystique connection; no mention of Azazael or Amanda Sefton. You can't just nitpick about a character's history (or lack of) when it suits you!!!!
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I'm trying to keep my cool with all this numb-nuttery going on...but come on. READ THE REVIEW. If you read it already, then READ IT AGAIN. When I talk about Juggernaut or The Phoenix, you tards keep firing back "Oh they didn't have time!" or "You're just upset because it LOOKS different from your precious comic books!" no. That's not why I'm upset. You're right, they didn't have the time to expound on Juggernaut. It's why he shouldn't have been there. The soul of Juggernaut is a guy made virtually indestructable who hates his half-brother because he feels like he abandoned him. (For those unfamiliar, his half-brother is Prof X.) The soul of the Juggernaut is not just some big strong guy who runs head first through walls. I mean, why even take the time to address his helmet if you're not actually going to bring up the real reason he has it (it's what protects him from his half brothers powers.) My problem is they ditched everything but the physical nature of the character. The soul of the Phoenix storyline is not Jean Grey is powerful or spaceships or world eating. The soul of the Phoenix saga is about a woman struggling against an awesome power that has possessed her and her friends forced to protect her from the other forces that wish to control hr or destroy her for the sake of protecting themselves. It didn't have to be told the same way - read the review, that's exactly what I said - but it had to get the concepts of the story right. That's all many of us are asking for. For the film to evoke the mood and themes of the story they're borrowing from. That's it.
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Take it easy y'all I'm going surfing and then going to have a brew! It's the weekend!!!
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Now on THIS I agree wholly. Please tell me why, that in the Hulk they made the Hulk like the comic, MASSIVE and HUGE. But in FF, and in X-Men the Thing and the Juggernaut are small. Heck in FF the Thing is the same size of Jessica Alba, now maybe they are being EXTRA smart and are going to mutate him like in the comic and MAKE Him massive, cuz if I remember correctly, he started small and then got big cuz of the mutation. I mean seriously with the money they are spending on CGI they cant make these guys huge? I saw Juggy, and the Thing and started laughing, thats the main reason I didnt see FF in the theater, I didnt want to support a half ass job, the guys at my site have been boycotting George Lucas until he released the OT on DVD without alterations, I dont mean not watching the films, but wont buy the TOYS, or ANYThing.... thats how you get change, dont support it, tell them to piss off... hell I wont watch Fox until they get Firefly back on the air. Use your power people!
Hamferno
www.theidiottestament.com -
Thank you Massawyrm for answering my question about him. This just goes to show that this movie was slapped together at the last minute. As far as perspective Sloughbear my view of this thing is getting worse by the second. Nearly three years for this? Why bring out Juggernaut at all if you aren't going to at least make an effort about his story. Hey why not throw in the Brood, Apocalypse, and Mr. Sinister too. Then explain nothing of their backgrounds. It's shoddy film work plain and simple. Juggernaut is hardly a minor character in the X-Men mythos. He deserves his own story all togther then you could deeper into Xavier's background too.
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...I really have had enough of all this whining about missing character elements! I am as passionate about the X-Men as anyone - hell, I am in my creative career because the comics inspired me to draw and write but, guys, to get ANGRY is ridiculous. People think that they appear more knowledgable or creative if they slag something off instead of enjoying it for what it is. Well, I really enjoyed this film and was thrilled just to see characters that I have enjoyed reading for years up on the screen. And regarding CGI - take a look at just how CRAP the Hulk looked!
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Stick around for the credits and you will get a treat for true X-men fans. I saw the movie yesterday and I give it a 7 out of 10 which is high for me and Lord of the rings would be a 10. So enjoy.
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Saw this movie today.. not as shitty as I thought coming from the guy who oversaw the birth of of an abortion named Red Dragon (what a wasted chance), not as good as Xmen 2. But alright.
As for ruining parts of the comic books etc.. The Xmen movies take place on earth in the USA, bringing the Phoenix story to another populated world and having her destroy it is beyond the scope of the movies, so don't be a crybaby dickhead. As for the deaths in the movie- yeah, it's the Rat. He doesn't 'do' actor-stuff very well. Get used to it. At least this movie had a real denoument had a real large-scale denoument.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that this was a pretty ok summer movie. -
Really ? And what produced, filmed & screened script have YOU written ?
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I own this talkback. All other talkbackers call me sire.
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coz its ok. Just calm down. There are a million worse films out there. And it was more, it was actually good. Its too black or white this review. It didnt blow you away therefore its crap. Wrong. Its just good. Maybe even very good. So surprised i was, thank god i gave it a chance. This guy doesnt know his arse from his elbow
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i love it when these guys talk about directors coz they have no clue what directing really is! Go do a film course and at least learn something. OR point out EXACTLY what was wrong with the directing, please. Was it the mid-shots? The mise en scene? I sometimes feel like robert neville me i tell you
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