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Quint watches X3 and...
SPOILER ALERT !!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here, fresh from the Austin press screening for X3 (followed by an appropriate dinner at Logan's). Frankly, I'm surprised Fox let anyone from AICN in to any early screenings of this film with the amount of shit we have dished out on the movie.
What people have to realize is we weren't shitting on the film because we wanted it to fail. This series of films means a lot to the comic book fans, comic book movie fans and even just the average sci-fi/fantasy geek in all of us. The first one was rocky, but was the first super-hero film to get it mostly right since BATMAN and even that one is heavily argued. It was at least a successful imperfect film with some shoddy effects, a too-young cast and a really awful version of Sabertooth.
However it had it where it counted. The casting of Professor X, Magneto and Wolverine were spot on and the handling of those characters was equally well done.
The second film fixed almost all the mistakes of the first film and stands, in my mind, as one of the finest examples of a superhero movie that has been put before us. Even that movie isn't perfect, owing to the casting from the first film, but they took casting I didn't like and made the characters into people I could genuinely appreciate.
Now we have X3, a film I was dreading. I knew Dark Phoenix was a big part of it. I knew Fox rushed it in a vain ego-pleasing attempt to slap deserter Bryan Singer across the face and go, "Nanner, nanner! I beat you!" I knew they were killing off way too many people and I knew that they traded off the guy who found fame from directing THE USUAL SUSPECTS for the guy who found fame by directing MONEY TALKS.
I went into the film hoping it would carry me away, force me to look at these characters in a new light (ie not follow Dark Phoenix's arc as it was in the comics, but make me appreciate what they did with her the way I came to appreciate Bobby Drake and Rogue's relationship in X2) and just overall force me down in my seat to have fun.
I tried. I really did.
And it started off well, with the much discussed amazing de-aging of Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen for a sequence taking place 20 years prior to the events in the film. The sequence you've probably seen in clips at this point has Professor X and Magneto back in their friendlier days meeting Jean Grey for the first time and seeing the full extent of her powers. The scene has an energy to it, a kind of kinetic hook as we see a whole neighborhood street full of cars suddenly lose their automobiles to the skies above. Mixed in here are great little character moments with Magneto ("I like this one.") and Professor X ("It's not polite to look into someone's mind...").
That's followed by a scene that take place 10 years later (and 10 years before the "now" of the story) involving a young Angel trying to hide his wings from his father. The scene is pretty gruesome and disturbing. Again, I felt like the movie was on track to prove me wrong...
Unfortunately for me the movie lost all its steam right after that.
We're introduced to Beast and Kitty Pryde and re-introduced to the rest of the X-Men and it just feels stale. Beast actually came across much better onscreen than I thought he would. Kelsey Grammer is great in the role, but just because the make-up didn't make me want to claw my eyes out doesn't mean it was the best they could have done. It would have worked better if Beast was actually a huge animal, not a man in prosthetics painted blue. You lose the whole genius-mind in a brute body that became Beast's trademark.
The main deal for me seemed to be that there was very little character work done here. From the first danger room sequence (yes, this is the only time we see Sentinels in the movie, folks... if you've seen the clip, you've seen the whole thing) all the way through the climax of the movie it is almost completely exposition. There's no nuance or layering. It really felt strictly puzzle-piece to puzzle-piece to make it to the end of the movie. They try to show some character in the dialogue, but all it came across as was forced sarcastic one-liners.
There are a few nice scenes in the movie, though. It's not a miserable piece of crap, just a rough draft of the better movie it wanted to be.
There's a scene I actually really liked between Bobby and Kitty Pryde where Bobby figures out a way to console her through a hard time in all the X-Men's lives. There's also a small bit towards the end involving a family in a car and Magneto that was played beautifully by Ian McKellen. Such a small scene, but it was so much in Magneto's character that it said more than his 2 big speeches in the film.
I think Variety or Hollywood Reporter referred to this film as the RETURN OF THE JEDI of the X-MEN franchise. I think that's highly inaccurate. In JEDI you had that great drama between Vader, Luke and the Emperor. Vader's inner-turmoil alone carries much dramatic power. I point to those sequences with those three character as some of the best things ever done in any of the STAR WARS movies. I can not point out any such scenes in X3.
I know that sounds really harsh, but it's true. I don't mean it in a "Uwe Boll bad" way. The movie is just rushed. Not in any visual way, really. It's all in the script, which I could easily see the suits saying, "Fuck the script. Hurry up and finish it so we can shoot! The fans will show up no matter what we do, we just have to get it out!"
I wouldn't even blame Brett Ratner for the shortcomings of the film. I think if they had handed Ratner a great script, he would have shot a great movie. He just either didn't have the power or the will to challenge some of the inconsistencies or bizarre pacing. I mean, the way Professor X acts throughout 90% of this film is totally out of character. He's a right bastard, actually.
I also am not sure that I like Phoenix being represented as a sort of Zombie Jean Grey... and, to be a geek for a second, you never once get her flaming up into a Phoenix... You know, like the shape you kinda saw just under the surface of the water at the end of X2... Not once in the film.
Like I said above the film isn't bad. It's just bland. There might be enough scenes that rock (Wolverine gets two cool moments in the film, one being a hand to hand fight he has with a dude that keeps growing more and more arms during the climax of the film) to edge it up above mediocre, but there's also some really, really terrible acting and dialogue that'd knock it back down again. The guy who they got to play the President is just awful. (Turn to camera after hearing some bad news, "My God..." and then, 3 minutes later, hearing more bad news: Turn to camera saying, "God help us...").
Ellen Page is probably my favorite addition as Kitty Pryde. She's still childlike enough to buy her as a kid, but she's got the acting chops to make the best out of the few character moments she gets. Even though her Canadian accent slipped through once or twice I think Page is a strong addition to the team and one of the best young actors hitting the scene now.
Well, there you have it... a meandering review for a meandering movie. It's not a franchise-killer, but it certainly hobbles it. I mourn my Dark Phoenix series that'll never be seen on the big screen... Here's hoping for a DAYS OF FUTURE PAST somewhere down the line...
-Quint
quint@aintitcool.com
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Brett Ratner should stick to making the next five Rush Hour flicks and get off the super hero movie bandwagon.
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But I would rather that then have some hot shot director try to cash in on whatever comic property is hot at the time.
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and a sentinal head falls to the ground. Where's my F'ing tickets. Get me to a movie theater now!
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I'm late for Church!
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I hope I don't hate this movie.
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I get the feeling I'm going to agree with it once I see the movie.
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i appreciate the "geek perspective" and I agree with some of your gripes; and most of the negatives you site are merely gripes :) Especially the dark phoenix flame up into hyper go mode and kick it.
i'm a moriarity fan myself. I share his sensibilities and i'm confident that a geek be gone approach is the best.
i look forward to being there on opening day--catch a late matinee.
*i'm part geek...honest. Some of them call it their inner child. -
Of many comic films: Daredevil, Punisher, Elektra, Fantastic Four, Blade Trinity. Not to mention all the wack Batmans between Burton's first and Batman Begins (2 solid movies), Catwoman, etc. Will X3 follow the booty trend? Who knows.
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Sorry Quint, these are money hungry hollywood executives we're talking about here, not overly sensitive immature geeks.
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Isn't that potentially libellous?
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The fact they actually have that in the movie makes you understand it: Commercial garbage with one probably cool fight scene. Um no thanks I'll save my money for Scanner Darkly or something.
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We all have the same accent here in Canada? I had no idea.
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You didn't know aboot that?
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Just read a post by kwisatzhaderach on a completely different page. It's now official - BLADE RUNNER'S coming to special edition DVD for next year. WOO HOO!!! Roll on 2007.
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I don't know whether the film will be good or bad, but I do not understand why everyone feels the need to whine so much about how Dark Phoenix isn't the way it was in the comics. I just don't see how they could do it in one film. There would have been no Phoenix arc before it, the Hellfire Club would have been tough to do on film, too many characters. Then throw in the Shi'ar? I think the original storyline would have sucked on film. Now as I haven't seen the film yet, I can say that I like what it appears they wanted to do with Dark Phoenix. Having her ally with Magneto over this issue of the cure sems like a decent way to go considering. But we'll just have to wait and see. I never liked Days of Future Past, but I think an Apocalypse movie would be great.
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On SE DVD next year? So...that means...what? HD-DVD or Blu Ray by 2019?
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Wow, you weren't going into that with any kind of bias were you? You "dread" surgery, not movies. This isn't life or death, it's a silly superhero film that wasn't made to appease every fanboy fantasy you've ever had. I can predict with 100% accuracy that it will make a lot of money and people will enjoy it. It must suck when you have to watch every movie with the thought, "impress me or my day will be ruined". Guess what, I saw Da Vinci Code and thought it was a blast, same with MI3. I'm guessing I'll enjoy this one too.
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to the Blade Runner story? This is good news indeed.
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I knew a bit aboot it.
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...why don't Harry, Quint et al write their own version of the Phoenix/X3 movie? They seem to know intimately how to make movies and write a killer screenplay etc. Why not put your money where your mouth is, so to speak and show those Fox executives how it should have been done! Who knows, it could match the superior quality of the Harry-beloved movie, Cabin Fever!
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I honestly don't understand the distaste for the first two X-Men films. I thought that they were handled well seeing that the source material is more of a confusing read than a tax form. I have never, nor ever will understand X-Men. Bring on "Mort, The Dead Teenager."
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I have a feeling I'll like this one. It sucks if you've read the comics for years and they've changed it all for you. I can relate having read so many books which have translated into shitty films over the years. You just have to learn to accept the changes and try to have fun with the movie!
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Thanks for the review. Just a note; there were times in the X-Men comics where Professor X was a prick to the X-Men because he was trying to train them and prepare them for touch times. So, maybe his being a bastard isn't completely out of character.
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Anyway.....no Avi Arad interviews anywhere. He seemed to be cheerleading this movie as it went into production. The last we saw of him was that tired, grumpy 15 second "INSIDE LOOK" on the FF DVD.
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Now the heavy hitters step up to the poker table and toss their dicks into the pot. Mori had actually made me think, 'I oughta give it a shot, even if it sucks.' Well, now - I am just hoping to find something else to watch that weekend, so I'll have an excuse to avoid X3. It's gonna be a rental.
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I'm fairly sure there is no "Canadian Accent" anymore than there is an "American Accent"
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...but Quint's reaction confirms the fears I've had about the script and the story being potentially "off" due to the rushed production schedule. That's a shame, really. But Quint also has eased my mind a bit by not complaining about the number of mutants being crammed into this movie as distracting from what little actual story there appears to be. That's an unexpected plus for me. Ultimately, I think Quint is still comparing this to the movie he would have liked to see (as Harry is comparing it to the movie he would have liked to make), which is kind of a dangerous way to judge something like this. As a writer, I used to do that to books I read all the time until the experience of reading became so cumbersome and disappointing for me that I pretty much stopped altogether. That's a decision I often regret, but I know I can't trust myself to evaluate a written work on its own merits now, and it's depriving me of some enjoyment I might otherwise have. Just a caution for anyone who goes into this movie looking for the faithful interpretation of the Dark Phoenix story from the comics or the Legacy Virus plotline as you recall it. I'm going to try and look at the film as a third installment in what has been, overall, an enjoyable franchise for me (I agree with Quint's assessments of the first two films almost completely, with the exception of the "too young" cast comment). If there are character inconsistencies from the first two films, that's going to bug me. If there are plot developments thatdon't make sense in the context of the first two films, that's going to bug me. But I can't help thinking Quint's looking at this through a slightly tinged lens, especially since he sang the praises of Return of the Jedui without once mentioning the travesty that was the Endor sequence (it could've been Kysshyk, man...it should've been Wookies).
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I thought Harry's review was fanboy shallowness. Quint, don't try to be him, you're usually reliable. The first two X-Men movies are not comic perfect either, and very far from it. You just liked them because they didn't truely adapt a big big X-Men story yet, and when they finally did with the universe they've set up.. Can you honestly feel surprised that the Phoenix Saga is not exactly like the comic? Everything Bryan established is well represented from what I've seen so far of this film, it honestly doesn't detract from the universe and characters he set up for us. So if you've got someone to blame......; But honestly, treat this like an alternate universe comic for gods sake, and perhaps you'll understand all the glowing and excited reviews I've read for the film.
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The only way comic book geeks will get their true Dark Pheonix Saga is if Xmen was a tv show. No way that can be done on one film. This is just as nerdy as Harry Potter fans saying the books are better...you think?
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But really I'm posting to ask if anyone has a good source of X Men comic summaries on line somewhere. I loved them 20 years ago but haven't read an issue since they were banned from my house following an unfortunate incident with a bb gun, the neighbors kids, a plate glass window and the cops.
I was knee deep in Hellfire Club stuff at the time but can't remember shit at this point...the only summary I've seen is from some shitty French website so any help would be appreciated. -
what the hell is wrong with Fox??? besides the obvious evil of their news network.
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I have now read all the AICN reviews on X3 thus far and must confess that I don't remember the last film on which EVERY other reviewer (not just Harry) disagreed with Moriarty's assessment. Anyone care to remind me as to when this last occurred? That said, regardless of all the complaints (many of which I feel are justified, especially the accussation that this was a rush job) I want to see this...I just don't know when that will be.
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Too rushed. Trying to do too many things in only 90 minutes. Which is all too bad because this franchise could be a cash cow whose teet (love that word) the guys at Fox could squeeze every other year for probably 6 movies. Sure, the fanboys are going to show up. But are they going to go back to watch it a second or third time like Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, or Spider-man? Not bloody well likely if this is what you give them. It also kills any good word-of-mouth that might get people in the theater, instead they'll wait to rent it in 5 months, which is what's killing box office receipts. And just to go geek for a sec, you could pull off the whole Shi'ar storyline by going the route that Ultimate X-Men is taking with it. No, it isn't canon, but it's not near as complex as the original Phoenix Saga. Anyways, I'll catch it on Friday and I'll buy it on DVD, so you got me there Faux. You got my money, but not my respect, but you know which is more important don't you suits.
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It's because of that round bacon, maple syrup, and beer you guys consume. Just kidding, eh. It's all about the Oilers puck-heads!!
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...A "too young" cast for a movie about teenagers and characters on average no older than their early twenties? Bear in mind "The Pheonix Saga" happened way the heck back in continuity and was not yet at the late-stage "Happy Days" phase where you had 35-year olds and older playing 16-20, which is---still---what the comics are.
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she's stunning. if you don't like X3, go see HARD CANDY and witness some of the finest
pieces of acting from a young woman that I have ever seen. even if HARD CANDY is somewhat flawed, Page's performance in it is mezmerizing. She's going to be a huge star someday soon, I reckon. oh, and btw, she's absolutely beautiful. perfect for Kitty Pryde. -
That's happened plenty of times:
Scary Movie 4,
Annapolis,
Big Fat Liar,
The Tuxedo,
etc. -
I haven't seen the movie yet, but all along I've been saying that it's the script we should be worried about. If Ratner's handed a good script he can shoot a good movie; his job is as a hired gun, not a visionary. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like it's nearly as good of a script as X2, but then again, if this turned out as good as that one I would assume I had died and was in heaven. If for me the film at least matches the original, which I think it can, then I'll be happy. Because even though X-Men was no X2 it was still darn good. Oh--and I agree, if they ever do Days of Future Past it would be amazing. I never read the comics but I remember the cartoon episodes of that story rocked my world when I was little.
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..of thinking that all rushed movies are rushed due to the studio not giving a damn about them. What about actors packed schedueles, such as Ian and Stewart? Would you rather wait and get Matthew Vaughn to direct a McKellan-less film, or one where his role had to be rewritten so as not to conflict with his schedule? It''s not the kind of simple, "Fuck the kids" thing Quint wants to say it is. Now, that doesn't mean the film didn't suffer from it. It seems it almost certainly did. But to say it is because of cartoonishly evil suits who simply don't care if the movie is good is fucking retarded.
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I think I might have been the only one in our group to actually "kind of" like it. I say kind of, because it's not perfect in anyway. It doesn't stand up to X2 at all. But you know what, I think it might actually be better than X1 or at least on par. It wasn't the gross train wreck I was expecting that is for sure. Yeah, I'm disappointed they didn't do Dark Phoenix right. But I'm just as let down that the "bridge" scene with the Green Goblin in Spider-Man (a huge turning point for that character in comic history that still haunts him) was botched as well in the first Spider-Man movie. Does it make me hate the movie? Nah. I still have the comic book and honestly, I look at most super hero movies as alternate universes anyway. Did X3 need more time to explore the characters and storylines they try to setup? Yes, yes they did in a bad way. But I guess I'm like the abused wife of geek movies here. I'm so used to being punched in the face so much with sequels and franchies (Matrix, Star Wars, Alien, Predator, Terminator, etc) that a little slap on the face seems like a favor. Sure, I mourn for the lost Singer version of this movie, just like I mourn for the Spielberg versions of Star Wars, or the Cameron version of Alien 5 or T3... but that's never going to happen and honestly, I don't think X3 is as bad as those failed sequels. I had to overlook a lot to enjoy the first X-Men movie, and I had to overlook just as much with this one, but I was still able to enjoy it. As far as the character deaths not hitting me as hard as they should have, sure ... it could have been done better. But I've been trained by the comics themselves not to feel it too hard when a main character dies. They always come back... ALWAYS. Fuck, they even brought Aunt May back to life, and she SHOULD have died a long time ago. How many times have they killed of X-Men to have them come right back to life? At the same time, I can feel what the hard core fans are hating this movie for. If Spider-Man 3 fucks up Venom, I'll be saying the same things about it as most are saying about X3. So I get where everyone is coming from as well with this dislike of the film. Like I said, I was just happy it wasn't a punch in the face, just a little slap. "He's a good man, he don't mean nuthin' by it"
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Now, why can't we have *that* as a 'fanboy'/'geek' film? A bunch of evil suits out to destroy a comic franchise and only an army of Real Fans (c) can stop them! We'll Double Penetrate the pop-culture kitsch market by casting William Shatner AS Elvis Presley for no reason at all. BTW, DonkeyBalls is right.
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What gives? The first two reviews posted said how beautiful the Phoenix Effect is when it's shown in the movie. Then the last three say it's not in at all. Which is it, folks?
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Quint, why does the THIRD movie of a TRILOGY, need characterization? We already have two films full of character development. This film is essentially the battle that springs forth from that character development. Why many, not only yourself, are demanding more characterization. When we already know these characters--makes very little sense to me.
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...I would wholeheartedly agree with you if these were all the same characters from the first two films. But they aren't. Phoenix, for example, is an alternate personality we've never met before. I can understand why Quint would want to know more about her (from experiencing that personality as opposed to hearing Prof. X explain it). Colossus had about two lines in X2. Kitty was in both previous films, but never spoke. Cyclops, who was in both previous films, still feels like we know next to nothing about him by the time they kill him (I had really hoped this third film would give them a chance to flesh him out some, but it seems they took the lazy way out there). The characters with the most development going into X3 are Wolverine, Rogue, Iceman, Nightcrawler and Storm, in that order, really. And Nightcrawler isn't even in this (a shame). So, really, I don't mind hearing that we don't spend a lot of time on the emotions and motives of these major characters in X3. But it seems like Colossus and Kitty are little more than extended cameos amongst a whole slew of other cameos. That's unfortunate (almost as unfortunate as the way the entire series treated Cyclops). All of that said, I still don't think Quint gave this film a fair shake and I expect it fulfills the role it was created for (end cap on the trilogy). It can't possibly be worse than the third Matrix film.
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I sadly agree with Harry and Quint so far on how important Dark Phoenix needs to be handled in this film. If you don't think it's important then you were blind to the previous two films heavy foreshadowing of it. Jean Gray's headaches in the first time, her continued headaches and powers in the second film... Singer was heavily building up to the Phoenix storyline hardcore. To kind of sit it backseat or underplay it in this third film really is a slap in the face to the first two films purpose for even foreshadowing it. While these negative reviews all seems to be centered around the fact it's because Fox rushed these is the real problem and sadly it will preform very well opening weekend but die off quickly it seems. However, the gripe about certain characters dying can probably be overlooked... I'm hearing word spread fast that if you stay after the credits they show a clip that hints a sequel and the return of many of those supposedly dead characters.
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I could understand if all u guys felt this way... but there is no way you can say that this movie isn't better than the first one. Is the movie flawed? Of course! But it has alot more going on than the other two X-Men movies. I'm sorry but the Alcatraz climax in X3 runs circles around the boring "Jason in a wheelchair" sequence in X2.
Oh well. I'm glad it is over. I predict that they'd try and do something similar to Whedon's X-Men next... especially based on the end of X3. -
Because we can't tell between American and Canadian accents. I mean...phewwwwww. That would have really fucked the movie up if I had noticed Kitty Prides's Canadian accent coming through. Oh wait, I've seen South Park. They say 'Aboot' and have flip top heads. Yeah I take back my sarcasm above - that would have been distracting.
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Will ever be made into a dvd set? I would kill to have those that show was amazing. If anyone has any info I'd love it, thanks.
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May 24, 2006 6:19:22 PM CDT
"FOX let you in because .1% wont kill the bottom line."
by lando griffin
word
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I agree with a few folks on this thread that for the sake of character development, and the time frame they were dealt with, that it would have been better to not even deal with the whole Phoenix story line if they couldn't tie in reasonably. I'll see the flick on Friday and judge myself.
The saddest part in all of this is the thought of there NOT being and X-Men 4 or at it will be 5-10 year before we'd have to wait. Sure there's a Wolverine movie coming up, but I'd MUCH rather see an X-Men academy or X-Factor movie instead.
But oh well, if had 200 million to spend . . . . . -
and anyone who helped ricky get his grade 10 is o.k. with mw.
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*****It's bad. No, wait! It's good! Hold on a second, it's bad! On second thought, it's good! Never thought I
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PLEASE??? AND LANA LANG TOO????
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First, no Shi-Ar empire. No fight on the moon. No watcher, Kree or Skrulls. Maybe have Magneto get pissed because she burns up Genosha. Actually, have the Hellfire Club come after her.Here's the story-Pheonix burns down some Hellfire Club stuff, kills some people. The authorities try to arrest her, kill her, whatever. But The Club wants to give her their own justice. X-Men fight Hellfire Club in a battle to the death in...Genosha, Savage Land. I don't know. Club should include all the old school guys and I'm thinkin Cassandra Nova, a cooler Mr Sinister (A classy dude who doesn't wear a lame costume, not the Ultimate psychopath version) and maybe Black Tom Cassidy. Hey, Black Tom in the jungle? Tell me that wouldn't be cool. Oh Yeah, and Wolverine will do some hardcore ass kicking. He could even say "okay you've taken your best shot. Now It's my turn!" Standing ovation, mutha fucka.
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Look buddy, you actually have to fuck a REAL girl before you move on to actresses. You can fuck Lana Lang all you want since she's a character and not real but you're literally on your own for that one.
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Halle Berry STILL sucks. the script sucks. the stupid president sucks, and the film just didn't GEL like it should have. suck, sucky, sucky.
But Kitty was pretty cool, shame about ALL the other introcued characters. Juggernaut- what the HELL was that? they looked like these cheap looking crap characters shoved in there by someone who didn't seem to have watched the other two films. -
simple as that. .
i'm sure it's a terrible dark phoenix movie but it's not called x men; dark phoenix is it?
it's cool watch it. if the worst comic book movies made were this good we'd be happy.........
if you want the comics. buy the comics. i do -
You know we don't go for rationality in here. Only angry bitchy rants. But yeah, if the worst comic book movies really were this bad, it might not, uh, be so bad. Right?
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Stick around for the credits and you will get a treat for true X-men fans. I saw the movie yesterday and I give it a 7 out of 10 which is high for me and Lord of the rings would be a 10. So enjoy.
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as you suggest in your review, why then would they declare this movie the last of a "trilogy" and end it on such a down note? Was this the plan all along? I don't want to give anything away, but let me just say that as I watched this movie opening night I felt like I was watching Star Trek: Generations all over again, where the writers/producers decided to make the script about a series of plot points and not the characters, and that movie sucked. This one did too, for the same reason. X-Men and X-2 were character-based, and this one was plot-based (for those of you who understand the difference). And as a rule plot-based movies are BAD because the audience doesn't really care about what happens to the characters. They're all screwed either way, so why should we?
And oh yeah, there was too much happening off-screen in this movie to appreciate the full impact...
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