Movie News

The Writers Of CATWOMAN Bring Us...TERMINATOR 4!!

Published at: April 7, 2006, 9:59 a.m. CST

Merrick thinks his trunk would create too much wind resistance...

Australian papers HERE and HERE are reporting that producer Andrew Vajna (yes, I know what that word looks like) may actually, finally, be ramping up for TERMINATOR 4.

Vajna’s extensive credits range from RAMBO: FIRST BLOOD PART II, TOTAL RECALL, and JACOB’S LADDER…to special little films like I, SPY and BASIC INSTINCT 2.

The best news of all? T4 is being characterized as a “real” sci-fi picture. The film’s screenplay is written by John Brancato and Michael Ferris, who scripted CATWOMAN, FEMME FATALE, and THE NET – all of which makes the duo’s involvement with a “real sci-fi film” something of an oxymoron.

But, to be fair, they also wrote TERMINATOR 3: RISE OF THE MACHINES – which Vajna produced as well. Personally, I thought T3 was far better than it could easily have been - although, it wasn’t great by any means. I respect the ending of the film, though; took a bit of courage to go that direction. While Judgment Day pretty much had to happen at some point in the TERMINATOR mythos, I was surprised The Powers That Be let a film go out on that note (as opposed to beginning a movie with it, for example).

No word yet on Arnold’s involvement, but they’re thinking about shooting in Australia – hence this news coming from Australia.

Let slip the Talkbackers!

Readers Talkback

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  • April 7, 2006, 10:02 a.m. CST


    by BeeDub


  • April 7, 2006, 10:03 a.m. CST


    by megazord2006


  • April 7, 2006, 10:04 a.m. CST


    by darthspielberg

    I have a bad feeling about this. a real bad feeling about this. like Obi-Wan bad feeling.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:05 a.m. CST

    i've shamed myself n/p

    by megazord2006

  • April 7, 2006, 10:08 a.m. CST


    by Ken Luxury Yacht

    ...Catwoman, Femme Fatale and The Net. We're in safe hands then.(Irony overload) And T3, whilst not an utter pile of cack, left an awful lot to be desired. I say, just leave well enough alone.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:09 a.m. CST

    I'll be back! but just for a sec

    by darth-chinaski

    arnie is being lined up for a cameo according to the movie page on teletext(uk)

  • April 7, 2006, 10:10 a.m. CST

    I quite liked number 3

    by KnightEternal

    tho i dont see why the resistence doesn't send Robert Patrick back instead....or Arnie....or both, Terminator Tag Team, the TTT,......... oh dear God I'm going for a drink

  • April 7, 2006, 10:11 a.m. CST


    by Kusoyaro

    Most of the movie, I could take it or leave it. But I thought the ending was perfect for the series. There's no real other way it could have ended...and cleaned up the time paradoxes that Cameron left hanging at the end of T2.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:12 a.m. CST

    Merrick, stop with the lame intro lines already

    by PrezMike

    They really suck, sorry. Get a good one and stick to it.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:12 a.m. CST

    Can someone clarify

    by Dataset

    What exactly is a "real sci-fi film"? Give examples. I know this will open a can of worms and make for a better talkback than what may or may not happen in T4.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:14 a.m. CST

    Hollywood just never understands

    by Snookeroo

    when to let a good thing alone.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:15 a.m. CST

    I'm sorry but..

    by Joyride

    T3 was a terrible movie. The only part worth watching was the very end when the war starts, other than that it is way to campy for me. PS: Arnold neads to quit terminating, he doesn't look imposing anymore, which completely defeats the point!!!

  • April 7, 2006, 10:17 a.m. CST

    Beating a Dead Horse

    by CrimsonGhost

    Sweet Baby Jesus, there is absolutely NO need to make this movie, it can't be anything but a disappointment. T3 was a huge let down even with that fine as hell Kristen Lokken running around wearing tight leather.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:18 a.m. CST

    "Real Sci Fi"

    by Doctor_Sin

    I guess they mean they'll have warp-speed rocketships and rayguns with antigravity belts and teleportation stations. "Ah'll be beamed up, girly-man!"

  • April 7, 2006, 10:20 a.m. CST

    With a name like Vajna

    by cromulent

    why do I feel like I'm the one getting fucked? T3 had it's moments, like that car chase, that one chick's sweet body, and the ending was decent. Now they gotta go in and mess with it some more.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:21 a.m. CST

    T3 is very underrated

    by RonaldLark

    That movie was my favorite of the three. It did an excellent job tying the storyline together without being cheesy; and the movie was POWERFUL. Watching a young John Connor start to address the panicking military in the middle of a nuclear holocaust was something else. I've been hoping they would make a 4th movie. Also, everyone who says T3 sucked is a cunt.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:23 a.m. CST

    T3 should have been the first half hour of T3

    by modlight

    It was the exact same shit as the other two until the apocolypse and then it got interesting, then over. I'm terrified by the idea of anyone having anything to do with Catwoman working on anything other than new Power Rangers episodes.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:24 a.m. CST

    Totally Unnecessary

    by robotdevil

    The first Terminator was a sharp horror flick dressed up with some sci-fi (instead of an unkillable slasher two steps behind, it's a robot). The second on was a big-budget actioner; a very different kind of film than the first one but still a great movie. T3 was an awful rehash of #2 (I can just hear the producers in my head, "we'll use the same script Cameron did, but we'll change the terminator to a woman and give it a dark ending"). I thought 3 was totally unnecessary. I can't imagine what point there is in doing a T4. Wait I've got an idea.... why doesn't Hollywood try doing something (gulp) original?!? Why not try a new idea? Or at the very least, save me a ticket fare by combining this with the Sharkey's Machine remake (e.g. Sharkey's Futuristic Robotic Sarah Conner Killing Machine). Oh well.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:26 a.m. CST


    by TraumReiter

    Well, I would be a good Terminator! And the best think is: I'll do it for free!!

  • April 7, 2006, 10:28 a.m. CST

    T4 could ROCK...

    by skynetbauxi

    ... if they get it right. imagine a "real sci-fi film" (what they meant was simply: a sci-film that's actually set in the future) depicting the war against the machines, the Resistance fighting Skynet until they almost defeat the fucker, Skynet sending his Terminators back in time, and the Resistance sending Kyle Reese and theyr own captured Terminators after them. and then... ? maybe in the end they find a way to change the intire line of events... like sending Kyle back to KILL Sarah instead of protecting her, so the first Terminator wouldn't get crushed at Cyberdyne, Dyson would never develop Skynet, and the machines could never rise. well, I hope they can come up with an "even better" ending :-) if they do, this movie might ROCK.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:30 a.m. CST

    1/3 of the process

    by Larry Jay

    Let's face it. Terminator 3 was more of a director's movie than a writers movie. All movies are 1/3 writing, 1/3 directing and 1/3 staff (sfx, sound, costumes etc. I happen to like T3 a lot. I won't put any of the Terminator movies above or below each other. I think they stand well as a trilogy. Each an important part of the story of the world of TERMINATOR. I think that CATWOMAN could have been a much better movie ( I was interested in the premise)if ANYONE other than that one-named hack of a director had been in the big chair. So while the writers write, and costumers sew, it is the DIRECTOR who makes the project.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:30 a.m. CST

    i think the real question here is...

    by havocSchultz

    when will the writers of catwoman bring us a sequel to catwoman... titled Catwoman's Basic Instincts...where halle berry and sharon stone can reprise their roles and have a leather/pleather fuck fest and cat-nap together...

  • April 7, 2006, 10:33 a.m. CST

    Any good movies with a '4' in the title?

    by brycemonkey

    I've got one, but I want to see which geek can name it first!

  • April 7, 2006, 10:34 a.m. CST

    It was

    by Larry Jay

    Lethal Weapon 4

  • April 7, 2006, 10:35 a.m. CST


    by casinoskunk

    how do you pronounce that?

  • April 7, 2006, 10:35 a.m. CST

    Terminator 4: Do We really care?

    by DiernaSoul

    The producer of Basic Instinct 2 and writers of Catwoman??? So they thought the best way to make T4 was to get a bunch of people who made box office bombs??

  • April 7, 2006, 10:35 a.m. CST

    i thought it was...

    by havocSchultz

    Critters 4...

  • April 7, 2006, 10:36 a.m. CST

    "Titanic II"

    by Uncapie

    Bill Paxton goes back to the Titanic with his three wives and discovers the T-800 is still alive and in perfect condition. Apparently, the T-800 was the original captain of the ship. via a time warp. Something happened to his guidence system and that's why they crashed into the iceberg. Paxton has a beer and cheets on his wife(wives) then sends him on his way and the T-800 lands in 1942 to become a fierce U-Boat captain. While standing on deck watching a Liberty ship sink, a storm approaches and lightening strikes him. This sends the T-800 into the 21st Century where he becomes Governor Of California. Co-stars, Ginger Lynn as Maria Shriver, Maaatt Daaamon as the retarded Teriminator, Eddie Deezen as Titanic Waiter #3 and Brooke Shields as "The Mayor." An AYBABTU Release.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:36 a.m. CST


    by TheAnomalist


  • April 7, 2006, 10:36 a.m. CST

    Optimistic ???

    by RobinP

    The Net is one of my favorite ovies, I have to admit. I've loved that movie for some reason or other since I first saw it. Maybe it's the fact that I feel that it's the kind of film Hitchcock would've made had he still been around. Catwoman though.....a comics icon in a film that pays no homage to the roots Gotham, no Commissioner, no Bruce Wayne, Batman, Selina Kyle....nothing. Just the name Catwoman. On the plus side - it DID have Halle Berry in an ever reducing torn skintight costume...and yeah, I really AM that shallow. So, we have the good, we have the bad...let's hope that T4 isn't the ugly.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:37 a.m. CST

    I'm looking for saraah connar

    by pumaman

    T4 oh yes !

  • April 7, 2006, 10:37 a.m. CST

    yes, bryce. "Space Mutants 4: The Trilogy Continues"

    by HypeEndsHere

    i remember it was a movie Bart wanted to see on an old Simpsons. also, I thought next to the original, Psycho IV was the next best. and pretty entertaining. but then name a movie w/Olivia Hussey nude that's not.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:38 a.m. CST

    Lethal weapon 4, no. Still waiting...

    by brycemonkey

    Come on geeks, good movie with 4 in the title... I assume the Critters comment was a joke.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:39 a.m. CST

    yeah I read bout this a while ago...

    by misnomer

    but it looks like its going ahead...unfortunately. T3 wasnt a terrible movie...but certainly wasnt worth the wait and proceeded to shit all over the mood of the first two. If cameron says he doesnt have anymore story to tell then its over as far as I'm concerned. they should just call it a day. (especially if arnold isnt in it for long) Of course, they think theyll make a quick buck (given the succeess of T3) but what they dont realise is that this will bomb (because what the writers forget is that the audience actually watched the movie after theyd bought a ticket) very bad form.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:40 a.m. CST

    Poor Vajna...

    by beefywhore

    Junior High must have SUCKED for him...

  • April 7, 2006, 10:42 a.m. CST

    the only real problem with T3...

    by skynetbauxi

    ... is that they totally fucked up the timeline. right at the beginning, John tells us that he was THIRTEEN when the second Terminator tried to kill him. they obviously did that because John and Kate were supposed to have met the day before T2, and two ten-year-olds making out at a party wouldn't have been very realistic. the PROBLEM is: T1 is set in 1984, and T2 is set in 1994 or 1995 (three years before Judgment Day), which makes it clear that John was about 10 years old in T2. and the REAL problem is: if John had been 13 in T2, that would place the story of T2 in late 1997 or early 1998, which is impossible, because that would be AFTER Judgment Day. so that sucks... but apart from that, T3 is a pretty cool movie. and the ending is GENIUS.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:42 a.m. CST

    Vajna had a cameo in Basic Instinct 1

    by BrandLoyalist

    Here here, skynetbauxi, give us the prequel set in the future or don't bother! Two more Alien movies with Ripley and neither one goes to Earth... bah!

  • April 7, 2006, 10:44 a.m. CST

    Arnold Returns in T4

    by NeoCon

    The new T1000 series will come equipped with saggy man-boobs and hair plugs.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:46 a.m. CST

    and he will run for office and give skynet tax breaks

    by HypeEndsHere

  • April 7, 2006, 10:46 a.m. CST

    well, i'd say...

    by havocSchultz

    Fantastic 4...but that's more of a joke than Critters 4...

  • April 7, 2006, 10:47 a.m. CST

    *sigh* your geek cards are revoked...

    by brycemonkey

    It was of course Star Wars Episode IV. By the time they did the 'fourth' movie in the series it sucked balls. Thus proving what T4 will be like!

  • April 7, 2006, 10:48 a.m. CST


    by havocSchultz

    that's not a 4 in the title... it's a IV... big difference... i still stand by Critters 4...

  • April 7, 2006, 10:49 a.m. CST

    I'm sorry; T3 was terrible...

    by LabattsBleu

    it didn't hold a candle to its two predecessors-it ripped scences off from Cameron and did them horribly and the chase sequences were brutal. not to mention changing the entire logic of the time travel (which T2 also did).

  • April 7, 2006, 10:49 a.m. CST

    Put this series out of its misery, already.

    by Nate Champion

    I can't believe that James Cameron isn't able to put a stop to this madness. He created the fucking idea, for fuck's sake!!! And for such a hands-on director, I can't believe he let his baby get taken away from him and raped over and over. Ten bucks says even Arnie won't touch this thing.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:49 a.m. CST

    ya know what?

    by misnomer

    Im kinda glad I didnt know the answer.... : ) a quick search on imdb proves that there has never been another film thats any good with 4 in it. (except maybe ghoulies 4)

  • April 7, 2006, 10:51 a.m. CST


    by brycemonkey

    so you are now claiming IV and 4 aren't the same? Try and weasel out on such a technicality would you?! Give me those cards I say...

  • April 7, 2006, 10:52 a.m. CST

    Movies with "4" in the title ?

    by RobinP

    "4 Your Eyes Only", "4-Ever Young", "The Towering In4-no", "The In-4-mer" "Finding 4-esster" "Outrageous 4-tune". Shall I continue or do y'all quit ???

  • April 7, 2006, 10:53 a.m. CST

    The Rock

    by Sizable Newt

    Are the rumors true that he's up for the next Terminator? Yeah, cuz that wouldn't suck balls. You know they'd throw his patented one-eyebrow-raising in as a gag before he kills some poor fucker.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:53 a.m. CST

    Ripped off Cameron?

    by TheAnomalist

    Cameron ripped the entire concept off from Harlan Ellison in a short story he wrote titled Soldier and turned it into a shlocky B movie like he used to churn out under Roger Corman- somehow the movie series has been able to rise above it's humble, and copyrigth infringing origins to be what it is today. but let's not make Cameron out to be the King of the World he claims to be.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:53 a.m. CST

    Oh, dear Lord, help us! n/p

    by DrWhat

  • April 7, 2006, 10:54 a.m. CST

    Episode IV: A New Hope

    by Jimmie Dimmick

    Unless you meant Jaws 4, brycemonkey.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:56 a.m. CST

    And T3 was only average...

    by brycemonkey

    I like hot killer robots as much as the next guy but it was a real step backwards from the first two. And by the time you get to any fourth instalment of a franchise it has been watered down, done to death, pooped out and sccoped back in till there is nothing left! Rant over...

  • April 7, 2006, 10:57 a.m. CST


    by DefyThis

    T3 surpassed most people's expectations and holds its own in the franchise. Is it great? No, but neither is it The Matrix: Reloaded or Revolutions. It was far better than the pre-release reports indicated. I'm not sure if this series NEEDS a 4 though. Oh, and Lethal Weapon 4 was decent if only because of Jet Li.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:57 a.m. CST

    ah, nuts

    by Jimmie Dimmick

    But really, teacher, I did know the answer! Really, I did!

  • April 7, 2006, 10:58 a.m. CST

    Episode IV?

    by HypeEndsHere

    what the fuck is that? some of the ladies may go in for that sorta thing, but i don't like revisionist titling. Star Wars. that's what it was and will be!

  • April 7, 2006, 10:58 a.m. CST

    Good effort Jimmie...

    by brycemonkey

    unfortunatly you were just out of time on that one.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:02 a.m. CST

    By "REAL SCI-FI" do they mean

    by modlight

    using extensions of possible science or extreme futuristic or alien situations as an allegory to examine current or timeless issues of the human social condition? Or do they mean this time it will be more Robots in the future shootin' shit.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:04 a.m. CST

    It took a lot of courage to completely crap all over T2

    by Fantomex


  • April 7, 2006, 11:09 a.m. CST

    It can't be that bad

    by Fried Gold

    With all the ingredients the Terminator rights come with, it would take a big cock up to completely mess it up. It will have something good about it.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:13 a.m. CST

    T3 was much better then T2

    by Blok Narpin

    "Personally, I thought T3 was far better than it could easily have been - although, it wasn

  • April 7, 2006, 11:13 a.m. CST

    Sounds Godawful

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Still, Ms. Loken probably needs the work after "Bloodrayne." Oh, and people who actually give a flying fig about science fiction call it science fiction or speculative fiction, not "scifi." "Scifi" means slapping some crap on somebody's forehead and saying it makes them and alien.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:15 a.m. CST

    T3 was a mediocre film with a great ending...

    by LeiaDown&FuckHer

    It wasn't bad, but compared against the first two films it was like setting off a hand grenade after an atom bomb, it just doesn't make much of an impact. Plus changing elements of continuity from the first two films because the director of the third didn't agree with those choices is still an utterly stupid and bullshit move that continues to grate even now. Can a great T4 be made? Yeah, it's possible. Will it happen? Seriously doubt it. Does anyone even care anymore? Not much.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:15 a.m. CST


    by modlight

    No one will dispute the ending was badass, but the rest of the movie, while ok, was just a rehash of the 2nd flick and completely unnecessary in terms of plot points. And balls or not Cameron at least had his ending be ambiguous as opposed to the original ending which is AWFUL.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:19 a.m. CST


    by brycemonkey

    what? T1 and T2 stood up well although in my opinion the big budget remake was as far removed as Alien was from Aliens. Anyway, T3 for my money was convoluted and contrived and didn't have a 'full on' Cameron at the helm to steer it. Also the ending for me didn't work. Because when I came out of the theater I knew that the world hadn't in fact ended. But hey, if you like T3 better then more power to you. As stated above I am also a fan of hot killer robots.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:19 a.m. CST

    I care!

    by skynetbauxi

    boy, it sucks in ANH when Luke says that... :-)

  • April 7, 2006, 11:19 a.m. CST

    Best Chase Scene....

    by Karl Childers

    Well, not THE best but it was assloads better than the one from The Matrix Reloaded.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:20 a.m. CST

    At last! The mathematical equation for TEH SUCK!

    by AnimeJune

    Crap (Terminator 4) + More Crap (the fucktards who made Catwoman) = EVEN MORE CRAP.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:20 a.m. CST

    The T3 Ending Was Badass???

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Really? Funny I can't really remember it. Something involving a bomb shelter and a riff on the Godfather 3 helicopter hit scene? I wouldn't give them any encouragment personally, so that they will try all the harded. I don't think there is anything to coast on after that last flick unless they are going straight to video.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:20 a.m. CST

    T1 is the best of the bunch, anyway

    by Doctor_Sin

    T2 was eye-candy, but ultimately is a stinker due to crap acting, plot holes, Arnie being a good-guy kids' hero action toy, and wussed out the ending. T3 was better than T2, but not by much. This is a good example of why Hollywood needs to dump the Franchise Mentality.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:22 a.m. CST

    what, no TERMINATOR vs. ROBOCOP?

    by IAmLegolas

    Come on, we need to run the Terminator franchise into the ground just like the others. Jim Cameron's spinning in his grave. If he were dead, that is.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:23 a.m. CST

    After T3 which looked like a made for TV movie...

    by Orionsangels

    Should we even care?, plus the awful casting of John Conner in T3 really hurt the franchise IMO.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:25 a.m. CST

    I like Vajna

    by Lando Griffin

    I also like her sisters Orl and Anl (not to be confused with AnaL of Lost)

  • April 7, 2006, 11:25 a.m. CST

    T3 was very dissappointing...

    by AnimeJune

    And NO, it wasn't only that they couldn't get Edward Furlong to reprise his role (he was the right age), and instead had to go with Nick "Magic Okie Yellow Bastard" Stahl. It wasn't just the scene where Ahnuld rips his clothes off a gay leatherdaddy and the shades turn out to be sparkling pink star-shapes. It was the fact that they said "FUCK the second movie - let's have an apocalypse anyway!"

  • April 7, 2006, 11:29 a.m. CST

    Star Trek 4 was good

    by Liphook

    *saves whales*

  • April 7, 2006, 11:35 a.m. CST

    CaptDaniel... NAh, after that.

    by modlight

    I'm talking about the real ending where you realized he had trapped them in there so they can survive the apocolypse... and then all the bombs going off. It was kind of like.. yeah finally we're gonna get to the cool shit end of the world. IF only there were some good story out there already where Robots destroyed the planet and humans were on the run from them. I guess the humans would be pretty ragtag. And god, if it could actually be good, real Sci-Fi. Man that would be sweet.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:37 a.m. CST

    lol, Star Treck 4. Erm, no...

    by brycemonkey

    "double dumb-ass on you"

  • April 7, 2006, 11:39 a.m. CST

    I still can't believe...

    by AxeBox

    ...that there are people in this world that still ride the studio-planted hype machine that is Terminator 3. The hype around that movie was completely created by Fox and it amazes that people (like who most above) believe this movie is good. The chase scenes: HORRIBLY constructed. Sarah Connor dead: FUCKING IDIOTIC DECISION. Plasticized Muscles (I mean Arnold): "..." Jonathan Mostow: T3's direction was the absolute worst, creatively void lifeless entity.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:39 a.m. CST

    don't know how to feel about this

    by quadrupletree

    I was about to have my day ruined until I saw that they also wrote T3, which while not perfect was an OK popcorn movie. Why don't they get better writers though? This better rock, it better be good and intelligent. I can think of multiple scenarios where they can do it with out Arnold, maybe get Robert Patrick? Have him be a good T2000 same as Arnold's model was reprogramed in the last two movies?

  • April 7, 2006, 11:40 a.m. CST

    If Cameron Made T4 Though

    by CaptDanielRoe

    It would be underwater, and it would be out around the same time real skeletal robot warriors are hunting you. So there's that. T4 should feature a cruise ship. I've got it, a killer-robot cruise ship. All the crew on it are really liquid-metal appendages attached at the feet. They look likelife except that when the boat tilts they remain at a right angle to the floor.... In any case, it would be a lot like "The Love Boat," except that the passengers the ship attracts end up getting sucked down internal chrome orifices to be fed into the propellers. But only after they find love.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:40 a.m. CST

    T4: skynet snakes on a plane from the future!

    by Spice-Orange

    are you sssssssssarah connor?

  • April 7, 2006, 11:42 a.m. CST

    Don't argue with me! I am 'Liphook' i.e. an 'exp

    by Liphook

    What's not to like in Star Trek 4? There's the erm.. No wait.. It's the bit where, erm.. Oh, I just want you to be you.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:42 a.m. CST


    by AnimeJune

    Highlander: Endgame? Police Academy 4: Citizens on Patrol? Wait, Alien: Resurrection, the one written by Joss "Firefly" Whedon? It was better than the third one, anyway. Leprechaun 4: In Space? I may not have the answers, but looking up all these fourth movies is hilarious work.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:42 a.m. CST

    Modlight... Okay, Yeah, That Was Cool

    by CaptDanielRoe

    I liked that part. Maybe I just couldn't make the synaptic connection from Catwoman, which I haven't had the burden of actually viewing, to that.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:45 a.m. CST

    Uncapie... Don't Sue Me

    by CaptDanielRoe

    I didn't read your treatment for the film featuring a cruise ship before I supplied my own. But that settles it, the fans are clamoring for it. T4 must feature a cruise ship. It's "Terminator on a Luxury Liner." It's inevitable. Now if only they could score Sam Jackson....

  • April 7, 2006, 11:45 a.m. CST

    CaptDan..What's your deal? You didn't like Titanic?

    by modlight

    You seem to think Cameron is obsessed with water? Prove it!!!! And don't forget when dealing with the amazing effects in Titanic all the stars and clouds they remembered to put in the sky. StarTrek4 ruled.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:47 a.m. CST

    I'm no Star Trek expert...

    by AnimeJune

    But the odd-numbered movies are supposed to be good, and the even-numbered ones suck. Am I right?

  • April 7, 2006, 11:48 a.m. CST

    Catwoman, and this is coming from someone

    by modlight

    who sees just about every comic movie made, and rarely misses a Sci-Fi original picture, is a train wreck. ITs Dr. Boll bad. Whoever directed it was literally afraid to leave a shot on a person for longer than 3 seconds so there are a bout a million edits even in straight dialouge scenes. IT was soooo bad that I didn't even get to the point where she was Catwoman. So T4, will be bad.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:49 a.m. CST

    Okay this was a little misleading...

    by Cotton McKnight

    Yeah I know the guy did all that crap but clearly you said "Catwoman" to get a reaction. If you would have said "the people who did Terminator 3" instead, nobody would have complained. And why did you phrase it that way? Because you know that it was a pretty darn good movie. I honestly didn't think they would have the guts, but they pulled it off. They showed more courage than James Cameron. And frankly, as a story, I think it's better than T2. Although the acting and directing isn't on that par. As well as the production qualities. The true test: you can easily come up with at least 1-3 moments in T2 that make you groan or fidget in your seat, but in T3, there are no moments like that at all.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:51 a.m. CST

    I Liked Titanic Enough

    by CaptDanielRoe

    That I saw that sumbitch alone, and after drinking a giant tub of diet soda, managed not to get out of my seat to whizz during the film. Which, considering the last hour or so of the film, was quite challenging. There was a lot of whizzing going on after that film, I can tell you. Since you asked that is. ......God what is it about this site that brings out the puerile? The color scheme?

  • April 7, 2006, 11:54 a.m. CST

    I'm just messin with you, I thought Titanic was a bore.

    by modlight

    until the last hour. And I think its the fact that that Kong background has been up there for ever.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:55 a.m. CST

    okay I forgot about the gay thing at the beginning.....

    by Cotton McKnight

    of Terminator 3. You gotta admit though that the count is clearly in favor of T2 as far as groan inducing moments. Making John call out for Sarah Connor (why couldn't he do that himself?), The "thumbs up" at the end, John teaching a terminator how to say ridiculous things like hasta lavista.. the list goes on.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:58 a.m. CST

    Forget Arnold

    by EyeofPolyphemus

    He's runnning for reelection and getting too old. Think The Rock or Marcellus Wallace.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:59 a.m. CST

    How does someone who wrote Catwoman

    by I Dunno

    get work again? That shit pisses me off.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:59 a.m. CST

    At the end of t3

    by emeraldboy

    Which I enjoyed very much, it hinted that Stahl and Danes would be back and about a year later the utterly beautiful and highly attractive and very shaggable Clare Danes said she would not be back. Darn, I thought and then Stahl, who was the best thing in the move, Stahl said that he too would not be returning. What I liked about T3 was its slightly independent nature. Now that stahl and Danes arent returning, that buggers up the ending of T3 alot. Much later on Mostow was aksed would he direct t4 and the answer has not been forth coming. T$ would have to be some kind of prequel/finale of the whole thing.

  • April 7, 2006, 12:03 p.m. CST

    Neuromancer Or Snow Crash

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Why doesn't anyone want to make a "SciFi" film that is at all relevant to the modern era. Granted even cyberpunk has been passe for years in literature, but I don't think The Matrix counts as cyberpunk; it's too much like the proto-cyberpunk of decades prior and too little a commentary on emerging technologies and their uses. Killer robot cyborg time machine nonsense is so sixties, fifties, twenties, turn of the 19th century practically. Even when Star Wars came out, science fiction had moved on from galactic empires and capital ships decades prior. Granted I love all that junk but I also love actually being intrigued by concepts.

  • April 7, 2006, 12:04 p.m. CST


    by Darth Pestilence

    there. I said it. now leave.

  • April 7, 2006, 12:04 p.m. CST


    by Darth Pestilence

    there. I said it. now leave.

  • April 7, 2006, 12:09 p.m. CST

    Well, this is perfect for Arnold!

    by rev_skarekroe

    Seeing as how he's from Australia.

  • April 7, 2006, 12:10 p.m. CST


    by Frijole

    Nope... close... but you got it backwards.

  • April 7, 2006, 12:13 p.m. CST

    Femme Fatale was written by Brian De Palma.

    by Osmosis Jones

    Way to fact-check, guys...

  • April 7, 2006, 12:20 p.m. CST

    T3 Sucked

    by chickychow

    So did Catwoman. These guys should be shipped off to Cambodia to toil in donkey shit.

  • April 7, 2006, 12:21 p.m. CST

    I Dunno, that's what I was wondering.....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    How do the writers of Catwoman still have employment, and how in fuck can they let David Goyer sit in a director's chair again? There are very few films that bomb and still be called good (Iron Giant), but Catwoman and Blade 3 rank right up there with RobotJox as utter pieces of shit whose creators should be banned from Hollywood for life, at least in whatever role they were in that helped make those train wrecks.

  • April 7, 2006, 12:21 p.m. CST

    T3 was good and had a very positive TalkBack

    by Rupee88

    That was probably the most uniformly positive TalkBack in AICN history is way up there. I'm not kidding...everyone was surprised by how entertaining the film was. It bodes well for T4 if the same people are involved with it.

  • April 7, 2006, 12:29 p.m. CST

    the animatrix already did this

    by the beef

    Didn't they already have a short animated version of T4 on the Animatrix? That was a pretty cool short. T3 was much better than it had any right to be. Without Cameron and without the greatest score for a series it did pretty damn well. In fact the only real problem I had with the 3rd film was the creation of a female terminator. The first 2 did a great job of making the TERMINATOR a very physically imposing figure. The 3rd made it just sexy as shit. I would almost want to get caught by that Terminator, which was probably the thinking of the machines when they created that Terminator. Genius!!!! but not scary enough for a movie. In any case this shouldn't be half bad. I wouldn't expect anything less than the 3rd film gave, which was a great surprise considering the shoes it had to fill. I say they should cast Tony Jaa as The Terminator, I'd be scared shitless of what a cyborg Jaa could do.

  • April 7, 2006, 12:39 p.m. CST


    by the beef

    Okay, I contradicted myself by saying the first 2 had physically terrifying looking Terminators and then said they should cast Jaa as the 4th, and he isn't that physically scary. It'd still be pretty sweet though, and he'd probably do the film too. You know what, nevermind they probably shouldn't have any cyborgs whatsoever just the exoskeletons. Considering the timeline of when this movie should take place the machines shouldn't have the technology yet to even create the cyborgs, unless of course they go back in time again, but this film should take place solely in the present time of the film since Judgement Day has already come and gone.

  • April 7, 2006, 12:46 p.m. CST


    by alucardvsdracula

    Just wondering who this hack had to blow to get the gig. Yet another fucking talentless whore gets the green from the retarded shit fuck Hollywood machine.

  • April 7, 2006, 12:46 p.m. CST

    Remember that T2 ended with a robot giving thumbs up

    by Big Bad Clone

    T3 had it's lame moments but overall it was okay. It's amazing that T2 also had many shitty things in it and still it is extremely entertaining even today. I assume any new Terminator movie will show the future war and John sending his dad back in time to fuck his mom. Arnold could do a short cameo at the end with the rest of the terminators either being endoskeletons or T-1000 and T-X's (remember that those models can change shape/be played by someone else)

  • April 7, 2006, 12:48 p.m. CST

    I want a John Byrne's Next Men movie

    by HypeEndsHere

    they'd have to change the title, but it would be kind of cool. i suppose a strict Weapon X movie would be out of the question, eh?

  • April 7, 2006, 12:48 p.m. CST

    T4 plot...

    by FordPerfect

    The T4 movie should take place right when The Beef said it should. But! Skynet sensing its demise should use what it has left, T-1000, and The Chick from T3 (whatever that cyborg was called) and Arnolds character from T1. Or make Arnolds characer defend John Conner and have an old T1 cyborg come after them. It could be a huge film and it could be cool, but we all know that it will not be cool at all.

  • April 7, 2006, 12:59 p.m. CST

    The best thing about T3....

    by Flipao

    The humour, that *CLUNK* sound during the chase scene was downright hilarious... it's completely logical yet unexpected... my fave bit by far. As for the film itself, good film, great ending, the one scene I didn't buy was Arnie going "run away, run away", that was just dumb, other than... awesome.

  • April 7, 2006, 1:01 p.m. CST

    I knew it

    by viranth

    I knew that making it "real" is hot as hell in hollywood now. Sure it's a good thing, but it'll get old real fast if they mange to screw it up. In T4 I would love to see some new up and coming action star, that CAN ACT! And show where the terminators come from and how they evolved from the T1 models shown in T3. Also, they should keep the CGI to a minimum, like in T2, it makes the movie so much better.

  • April 7, 2006, 1:10 p.m. CST

    So lame.

    by victor laszlo

    Everyone please stop pretending T3 didn't truly suck. Such small ideas, so so lame...

  • April 7, 2006, 1:11 p.m. CST

    The bathroom fight in T-3 was great.

    by cookylamoo

    It's great fun seeing Arnold hit over the head with a urinal.

  • April 7, 2006, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Especially the ending.

    by victor laszlo

    We hear about Judgement Day for 20 years and this was the payoff? You've really got to try to end up making nuclear holocaust that boring and unaffecting. ps:: John Connor would never get trapped in a dog cage by a stupid girl. NEVER.

  • April 7, 2006, 1:21 p.m. CST

    DanielRoe: FUCK Terminator, HAIL the Deliverator!

    by AnimeJune

    Snow Crash rules. After seeing Kill Bill 1 and 2, I think Quentin Tarantino wouldn't do a bad job directing it. I mean, c'mon - Hiro Protagonist: Pizza Deliverer, Best Swordfighter in the World.

  • April 7, 2006, 1:25 p.m. CST

    Terminator Versus Reanimator

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Who would win?

  • April 7, 2006, 1:29 p.m. CST

    Terminator vs Reanimator

    by FordPerfect

    Terminator, the Reanimator made zombie like beings, and the termintor is fucking metal! What if the Terminator got bit by the zombie would it become a zombie terminator.

  • April 7, 2006, 1:29 p.m. CST


    by digital8

  • April 7, 2006, 1:33 p.m. CST

    Claire Danes... Two Face!

    by brycemonkey

    Is it me or does anyone else wonder which Claire Danes is going to show up? "She's a Two-Face, Jerry!"

  • April 7, 2006, 1:35 p.m. CST

    Femme Fatale

    by Vern

    Okay, I don't care about all this robots and crap, but I cannot in good conscience sit by passively as Femme Fatale gets lumped in with Catwoman and The Net. Come on, man. Even if you didn't like it you gotta admit it is pure Brian DePalma shot directly into the brain and therefore belongs in a different category. Also of note: my DVD and the IMDb both credit Brian DePalma as the sole writer of Femme Fatale, and it is hard to imagine that somebody else would've written that movie, even in an earlier draft. UPDATE: Oh, I get it. They wrote a 1991 movie of the same title starring Colin Firth and Lisa & Billy Zane. That should be specified before some deranged Femme Fatale fan flies off the handle and writes a righteously indignant talkback. Okay, the matter is settled, back to your robots.

  • April 7, 2006, 1:35 p.m. CST

    Eliminators 2

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Where is that? Why settle for a cyborg with two arms and two legs, when you can have one with two arms and four legs? And a ninja? And a bunch of other junk I can't remember, versus Julius Caesar or something. That movie rocked.

  • April 7, 2006, 1:38 p.m. CST

    Am I the only one

    by BigStar

    that was relieved not to see Merrick's fucking weird ass picture at the bottom of the article?

  • April 7, 2006, 1:40 p.m. CST

    Rocky 4 is one with 4 in the title

    by Lucidz

    a good one that is.

  • April 7, 2006, 1:40 p.m. CST


    by flipjinklee

    Part of me wants them to leave the series alone, the other part is excited for a follow up to T3. Catwoman has to be one of the worst movies of all time so that is definatly a ding to T4, if they make it they better not fuck it up. Did I read somewhere that Arnold is from Australia.....DUH. I hope that was a joke. By the way, the Titanic sucked, totally mind numbing and horrible. The only good part was when people were bouncing off the side of the boat while it was sinking. I would rather have a bowling ball dropped on my tounge then have to endure that crap again. The Matrix (all of them) rocked. Those who didn't like the second a third ones were just not smart enough to understand, so instead of saying "I don't get it" they just say "it sucked" so they don't look dumb.

  • April 7, 2006, 1:42 p.m. CST

    Terminator don't like this:

    by Tall_Boy

    He's been chilling with Darth and listening to too much emo, poor guys.

  • April 7, 2006, 1:48 p.m. CST

    Rocky 4?

    by brycemonkey

    Come on Lucidz... I rate Star Trek 4 above that. If you want a *real* tough guy exploration of the Cold War culture clash check out Red Heat. Game of chicken with buses. Can't beat that...

  • April 7, 2006, 1:50 p.m. CST

    Fuck yes, Tallboy!

    by AnimeJune

    That'll explain why he ain't in T4. Believe me, if he doesn't have the balls to do True Lies 2, he's not gonna do Terminator 4. I was looking FORWARD to True Lies 2, you politician bastard!

  • April 7, 2006, 1:54 p.m. CST


    by Bramton1

    Here's the problem with your idea of Reese killing Sarah. Sarah would never have had John, the Connor line would have no impact in the war, Skynet would have no reason to send Ah-nold back to kill Sarah, and Reese would not have needed to go back to protect (or kill) Sarah. No to mention the original T800's mission was to kill Sarah. You'd be aiding in its mission. It's also noteworthy to know from T3 that it this story were real, my laptop would be trying to kill me about now.

  • April 7, 2006, 1:58 p.m. CST

    Terminator Series

    by Darth Thoth

    T1 was the best of the bunch. T2 was almost as good. Outside of the ending, T3 was a rehash of T2. T3 was BY FAR the worst of the trilogy. T3 needed to be post-apocalypse. It also needed James Cameron (but that's another issue). T4... I don't know what to think. But here's my nom for who should play John Connor- CLIVE OWEN. He has that war-torn rugged look. He would make a hard John Connor.

  • April 7, 2006, 2:02 p.m. CST

    Hated the ending of T2

    by moviemaniac-7

    If T2 had T3's ending... it would've been the best, easily, but for now T1's 'A storm is coming.' - 'I know.' remains the worthiest moment in the trilogy. But I liked T3 better than I'd like to admit. Mostow and co. did the best they could, but I think - still think - that McTiernan would have done a better job.

  • April 7, 2006, 2:04 p.m. CST


    by the beef

    Thanks for the agreement. If they do stick with using good and bad cyborgs again then they should use the same actor to play both the bad and good cyborg. Apparently since they come off an assembly line anyway then a lot of them are supposed to look the same. That could add some interesting conflict if they don't overuse the "is he the bad one or good one" schtick.

  • April 7, 2006, 2:08 p.m. CST

    There are people who actually defend T3?!

    by Neo Zeed

    Maybe that should be the headline, because this is news to me.

  • April 7, 2006, 2:11 p.m. CST


    by CaptDanielRoe

    You sure can beat a game of chicken with buses. Rambo 3. Of course Rambo can drive a Russian tank, they had lots of those back in the jungle. And of course a Russian Hind pilot is up for a game of chicken to the finish. With a tank. Yeeeeeaaaaaaarrrrrrrggggghhhhh!!! Yeah I'd say that beats the ass of Red Heat. Plus it's a great reminder of the days when the Mujahadeen were our buds. ...Not that I can actually watch any of these movies, mind you, but the insanity of them is enthralling.

  • April 7, 2006, 2:17 p.m. CST

    Halloween 4: The Return of Michael Myers

    by oh_riginal

    Theres a good movie with "4" in the title. Anyways, I enjoyed T3 a lot, though I had HUGE doubts that I would before it was released. Biggest surprise for me as far as expectations go, in that year. Now, even before T2 was released, I always wanted to see MORE of the "flashback" scenes of the future, that was shown in the original Terminator film. After seeing the end of T3, I hoped to death that T4 would be made, and would focus on the war itself, and now it appears I may get that wish fulfilled! Arnold should not play a major character at all. If he appears, it should only be a cameo, as John Connors killer, or just show him going back in time to T2. Don't show him going back to T1 unless it's possible to make him look THAT young again, which I doubt they can, unless they CGI'd him, but I don't think CGI is advanced enough yet to recreate actors and look realistic. Theres my two cents.

  • April 7, 2006, 2:17 p.m. CST

    Producers, IF YOU'RE READING THIS!!!

    by the beef

    Don't go with a more established action star or actor for the Terminator role. THE TERMINATOR title itself should be enough to bring in a crowd, don't count on the name of a star. One of the reasons the first 2 worked so well was because we didn't really associate the Terminators with any other role they had played up to that point. Schwarzenegger and Robert Patrick hadn't done much in that point of their careers so we couldn't associate the Terminator character with another one of their roles, and thus made them all the more scarier because we couldn't picture the actor in real life or playing a softer character in another film (Diesel and THE PACIFIER). They might've really been a fuckin' terminator for all we knew.

  • April 7, 2006, 2:19 p.m. CST

    Hey TheBeef, They Aren't All Arnie

    by CaptDanielRoe

    There's the italian-looking Terminator in the flashback part of the first flick. He was a bodybuilder type guy. Frankly, were I John Conner, I'd have said "You all better stop popping 'roids or we're gonna waste you on sight" to any of his guys that looked like Gold's Gym-goers.

  • April 7, 2006, 2:20 p.m. CST

    Please tell me this is a late April Fools joke

    by Gorrister

    Oh, sweet Jesus, Mary-Mother-of-God NO!!!!!!!! Wasn't T3 bad enough? It almost completely ruined the entire Terminator series for me. If T4 is ever made, I'll chuck my T1 & T2 DVDs in the bin and try to forget I ever heard of them.

  • April 7, 2006, 2:20 p.m. CST

    Terminator Round Up

    by NeoCon

    T1 was one of the greatest SciFI movies ever. Its low budget made the movie meaner and leaner. The scene in the punk dance club was amazing. Arnold in T1 was probably the most intimidating screen presence ever. A true classic. T2 was an over the top wildly entertaining movie. When I saw the FX I realized that anything was possible. The truck/motorcycle race was one of the greatest ever. I like what they did W/ Linda Hamilton and creating a new villian. Arnold was a bit too nice. I think he already knew he would run for office some day and didn't want to be filmed killing cops anymore. I liked the ending. The future is never predetermined. T3- It Never Happened. It doesn't exist. Nor does the Matrix sequels or Alien 3&4

  • April 7, 2006, 2:25 p.m. CST

    No Problem

    by FordPerfect

    Lets just hope that happens because that would be really really cool.

  • April 7, 2006, 2:26 p.m. CST

    Oh And Another Rambo 3 Masterstroke

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Not to be forgotten.... He cauterizes a gut wound by blowing one of his kidneys out with a cartridge, then proceeds with the film. And then that other time: Here he's been proceeding with the film shirtless, and it turns out all along he's had an explosive, Hind-beating bow and arrow in his pants. In his pants! ...I'm sorry, but upon reflection, Stallone is way better than Arnie. I used to be on the Arnie side of it but now that the criteria has changed to who played the greatest role in preparing us for "Snakes on a Plane," it's all about Sly. Just cast Sly as a Terminator T-801, and be done with it. "Yo! Skynet!" I'm serious. That's the worst part.

  • April 7, 2006, 2:27 p.m. CST

    Re: CaptDanielRoe

    by NeoCon

    That Terminator you speak of was played by Franko Columbo. An Italian who was billed as "The World Strongest Body Builder". He was Arnold's friend and the other Mr. Olympia finalist in "Pumping Iron". The thing you don't realize while watching his scene in "Terminator" was that he is a 5 ft 3.

  • April 7, 2006, 2:32 p.m. CST

    Actually T3 corrected the time paradox discrepancies

    by smackfu

    By presenting us with the notion that BOTH timelines, with and without time-travel interference, resulted in the rise of Skynet, the only thing the timetravel did was push back the date on which it happened. I also really liked T3, it was a letdown in the theatre because it wasn't what I was expecting, but the more I watch it the more I like it. The stupid humor and overblown chase scenes aside, what I love about the movie is the whole feel of the second half, the inevitable countdown to apocalypse, and the ending had MAJOR balls. In the end, each movie is it's own separate entity, each one is a different type of film with a whole different feel to it, and T3 is just as good and valid an entry as the other 2...

  • April 7, 2006, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Another rip off claim

    by hallmitchell

    One thing to note. All hollywood hits get sued. No one evers sues a flop. I saw this clip on an Australian tv show years ago. Where this guy claimed to have written a story called the Minotaur. About a molten man who travels through time. He claims he went to hollywood showed it to all the top directors. Noone was interested except one. James Cameron. The claim goes James seemed to like the script. Yet never got back to him. Then he sees the Molten man show up in Terminator 2. I don't know what happened to the case.

  • April 7, 2006, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Not funny man. April fools day was last Sat.

    by R.C. the "Wise"

    Though, I did enjoy T3 a great deal. Solid effects/acting/plot/action.

  • April 7, 2006, 2:48 p.m. CST


    by the beef

    I know they aren't all Arnie, i'm just going back to the line in T3 where Connor asks Arnie if they all come off an assembly line or something, and Arnie says yes. i do remember Franko Columbo in the first one, and in fact it would defeat the purpose of the machines even making cyborgs to begin with if they all looked the same because they're supposed to be indistinguishable from real humans. If they all look the same then there's no guessing involved. I just thought I'd add some color to the plot. More on the casting, GOLDBERG wouldn't be a bad choice. Scary looking, intimidating, has already played a somewhat similar character in Universal Soldier 2, hasn't done a lighthearted role to compare to, he's jewish, etc. I mean, Jews experienced the Holocaust, maybe it's about time they did some of their own terminating.

  • April 7, 2006, 2:53 p.m. CST

    Molten Man?

    by CaptDanielRoe

    That guy stole that from the bad guys in Crystar, The Crystal Warrior. Magma Man and Moltar. Raped. For shame.

  • April 7, 2006, 3:01 p.m. CST

    TheBeef... RoboHeeb

    by CaptDanielRoe

    I wouldn't say Jews have exactly been sitting on their thumbs collectively since 1945. Destroying the entire Egyptian air force before it even took off, after flying low to the ground all the way under radar, was no mean feet. But for a Jewish Terminator my choice would be Sarah Silverman. Although frankly I think Jennifer Connely would be the better choice for the type, maybe not Jewish but a similar appeal with more box office behind her. That girl is intense. See? Always thinking. ...And as for the follow up question, yes, the answer is yes.

  • April 7, 2006, 3:16 p.m. CST

    T3 was too short to be great. It needed another hour.

    by BilboRing

    T4 could be great too. I'd actually leave Arnold out of it. He's too old now and it's getting goofy to have him in it. Possibilities are endless here but it has to be done right. T3 just didn't have enough meat and potatoes. It could have been great. T4 should just be about the war and a bunch of original terminators running around. No more new terminators!!!!

  • April 7, 2006, 3:18 p.m. CST

    T3 was great

    by Integra

    I thought T2 was fun but far from 'Great'. It was full of plot holes and seriously, a robot giving thumbs up while melting down? Could you get any more cheesy/cringe inducing/embarassing? Ever see the original ending? Its even more cheesy. I read the studio actually forced the ending we all saw. Imagine that, studio involvement/fiddling that made the film better! T3 did an Excellent job filling in alot of the problems and holes from the first two films. Arnolds existence in one and two means that the war MUST happen, T2 backed away from this and went for the cheeseball ending. T3 did the best it could to get it back on the tracks IMO. I dont get why Cameron is so universally adored and thought of as the flamebearer for great films. Aliens was a great sci fi shoot em up, no doubt. But watch T2, or True Lies again. Its pretty bad. Its sappy and corny. Its stupid physical gags. The Abyss? .... I agree that Mostow did a great job. I just dont see Cameron pulling off the dark tone for the remainder of the 'T' films after T2 and seeing his work since.

  • April 7, 2006, 3:19 p.m. CST

    The Silvermans

    by the beef

    Go ahead and throw Johnathon along with Sarah, first time brother and sister Terminators. I know the Jews haven't necessarily done anything since the Holocaust, but they haven't done anything to Germans yet. Apparently whomever they cast in T4 is gonna be white and that's a lot closer to a German than an Egyptian. At least they'll more than likely be Christians. On a more serious note (I mean this Holocaust stuff and mass murder is really juvenile), they really should go with Goldberg, Jewish lineage and Christian extermination aside.

  • April 7, 2006, 3:23 p.m. CST

    Good #4's

    by Webster_Daniels

  • April 7, 2006, 3:23 p.m. CST

    jewish terminator?

    by smackfu

    Gilbert Gottfried and Larry David come to mind...

  • April 7, 2006, 3:25 p.m. CST

    Dammit, what I meant was...

    by Webster_Daniels

    Good #4's, uhh... Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire? Was this not the best film in the series so far? I know there's no 4 in the title but it is the fourth film in the franchise.

  • April 7, 2006, 3:26 p.m. CST

    Jim Cameron

    by Evil Chicken

    Wisely, nowhere in sight. T3 was better than I thought it was going to be but still it pales in the light of what could have been. No James Cameron and a new

  • April 7, 2006, 3:29 p.m. CST

    Question for Terminator fans...

    by robotdevil

    In the first movie, Reese explains that the Terminators are supposed to be indistinguishable from humans (sweat, bad breath, etc). So why do all the Terminators in the Arnie line look alike? I mean, what would be the point of going to all the trouble of making them biologically indistinguishably from humans, but then have them all look alike? Is it just me, or does that make absolutely no sense at all?

  • April 7, 2006, 3:31 p.m. CST

    If they have to make a "4" movie, I'd rather see:

    by Novaman5000

    Jurassic Park 4, to be perfectly honest. We haven't had a good dinosaur movie in a really long time (aside from the dino parts in King Kong). Indy 4 would be nice to see, too. I enjoyed T3 well enough. I don't care if they make the 4th if they at least try not to fuck it up.

  • April 7, 2006, 3:33 p.m. CST

    phaedrus0007, my guess is that as soon as you see one

    by modlight

    YOU'RE DEAD!!!! And dead men tell no tales of mass produced robot govenors. Didn't work out that way, but hey.

  • April 7, 2006, 3:36 p.m. CST

    I'd like to see Ocean's 4

    by modlight

    Where George Clooney and Brad Pitt are on a mission to steal the virginity of the 4 hottest 18 year olds on the planet. So basically just go around and film those two while theyre not making a movie.

  • April 7, 2006, 3:37 p.m. CST


    by brycemonkey

    I'll allow it! Although this means I claim the 4th Bond movie to add to Star Wars IV, and Harry Potter 4...

  • April 7, 2006, 3:48 p.m. CST

    Haven't Done Anything To The Germans?

    by CaptDanielRoe

    They've done a lot to every German Nazi war criminal they could hunt to the ends of the earth. Terminator-like. And hit up the German government up for big time reparations that I imagine are still ongoing. Actually though, on your other points Beef, here's a thought: SHOULD it be about who stars as "The Terminator?" or should it be about who stars as John Connor? Hear's my serious suggestion for that, and yeah, he's a Christian alright.... Mel Gibson. Mad Max meets Braveheart. Except with Terminators. Huh? Yeah! Yeah he's old and yeah that would mean the newer Terminator models, but maybe it could be a Battle-of-the-Bulge style big push after the scales have tipped against the Terminators, and it's just the older models left with crazy lower-tech tanks and stuff they've hastily converted from their ruined infrastructure.

  • April 7, 2006, 3:48 p.m. CST


    by the beef

    That funky monkey!!! I'm sure you heard that a shitload, but not from me yet. So are you really really limiting your pick to a movie that actually has the #4 in the title? I don't know what the fuck you're thinking but I'm gonna say ID4. Not a 4th installment and not necessarily even a really good movie, but I can't think of shit else. Other than that I'll stick with the dude who said Halloween 4.

  • April 7, 2006, 3:50 p.m. CST

    phaedrus007 and Modlight

    by CaptDanielRoe

    My guess is that, yes, if you have seen one you are dead but that Skynet is a big perv and likes to get busy with humans that the internet has taught it to perv out on; hence passing as human.... The internet is being militarized as we speak, so it could happen.

  • April 7, 2006, 3:53 p.m. CST


    by bigharryballsac

    hey, they're all robots...and who doesnt want to see ryan seacrest get his head blown to pieces.

  • April 7, 2006, 3:57 p.m. CST

    the beef...

    by brycemonkey

    No, just illustrating the point that movies which are the fourth installment in a series are 99.99% garbage. Fun exercise in movie knowledge though... And Hayle No! ID4 doesn't make it for numerous reasons!

  • April 7, 2006, 3:59 p.m. CST

    Modlight & CaptDanielRoe

    by robotdevil

    I don't think the "if you see them you're dead" explanation holds water because in the first movie Reese lamented that he couldn't kill a Terminator with the weapons he had available. This implies that if he had weapons from his own time he could kill one, which implies Terminators have been killed and therefore seen by people who lived to tell the tales. So far, I'm still thinking it makes no sense. What else you got?

  • April 7, 2006, 4 p.m. CST

    Conquest of the Planet of the Apes is a 4

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Wherein, as some poster points at over at IMDB, the apes conquer the world by taking over a shopping mall from riot police. It's always so easy in movies, sigh.

  • April 7, 2006, 4:02 p.m. CST

    T3 was a good time.

    by Mr Brownstone

    Deal with it.

  • April 7, 2006, 4:04 p.m. CST


    by the beef

    I already brought up that point before. They do come off of an assembly line (according to T3) however they don't all look the same as shown with different bad terminators in each sequel, also with the different Terminator that was used in the flashback of the first movie. I'm sure that many of the Terminators probably do look the same since it is assembly line manufacturing, but they don't all look the same because yes that would be very stupid as I've brought up before.

  • April 7, 2006, 4:04 p.m. CST



    T3 was kinda snooze-worthy until the plot kicked in toward the end. Common sense tells me that the writers had a sequel in mind and obviously have it under control. So if their previous credits include "Sundown: Vampires In Retreat" or "Carnal Instinct" or "Ernest Goes To Jail" or "Frog-g-g!" or "Star Wars: Episode I," I don't care, so long as "Terminator 3" is among them. That's the only one that counts.

  • April 7, 2006, 4:09 p.m. CST


    by beefywhore

    in order to take over the world, the Machines devise a plan to brainwash 80% of America into thinking that a crappy Karaoke contest is quality television and that the participants are talented musicians...bigharryballsac is a GENIUS!!!!!!!

  • April 7, 2006, 4:10 p.m. CST

    The Sameness Issue

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Has been handled in the obviously derivative new Battlestar Galactica. And there it seems that many idenitcal models were supposed to have some use in infiltrating a flourishing and modern society. Nobody has mentioned how similar BSG is on this thread yet so I thought I would, even if I don't really have a point....

  • April 7, 2006, 4:11 p.m. CST

    Bound to suck

    by OurManInMontr

    Tabarnak! It'll be fun watching this piece o' cack crash and burn straight to rental. With so many smart, young, eager filmmakers unable to find proper backing, this is purely MONEY ILL-SPENT.

  • April 7, 2006, 4:14 p.m. CST

    As Far As Catwoman....

    by CaptDanielRoe

    ...Well I didn't see it but good scripts can be turned into lousy movies. And most good filmmakers miss sometimes, even miss really badly. You wouldn't want to judge Francis Ford Coppola on Battle Beyond the Sun alone.

  • April 7, 2006, 4:14 p.m. CST

    Best part of T3

    by Engelhast

    Was the audio commentary with Arnold. He makes such an ass out of himself every time he opens his kraut hole.

  • April 7, 2006, 4:14 p.m. CST

    The story for T4 should be about

    by veritasses

    the resistance fighting against terminators that look like Tom Cruise. And that poor girl Katie Holmes can play the heroine that destroys all the Tom Cruise androids. Nicole can play her mom who helps her.

  • April 7, 2006, 4:21 p.m. CST

    T3 & T4

    by Roboteer

    T3 had the impossible job of following T2, one of the best films of its kind ever. It also had the disadvantage of being a transition story, not having Cameron, and having to pony up $30 million for a supposedly washed up Ahnuld. The CW said it had to be a piece of crap, but it rocked. The story was involving, intelligent, and dared to end as it did. It got good reviews except from ultra lib critics like Ebert (who listed for 5 minutes all the things he liked about it, then couldn't recommend it) and sputtering Joyce "It isn't even a movie" Kulhawik who both hate the big guy and the GOP. While all the buzz was on the MATRIX chase scene later on, it was T3 that actually delivered. T3 maybe wasn't great, but better'n good and the middle of the three. It did okay in the US, but Arnold has tremendous drawing power overseas. along with licensing, it made T3 a cash machine. One caveat on T4, I'll believe it when I see it. Much too early to start salivating over the final chapter. It would take some guts to do it w/o Arnold, if he's ever available. Maybe he's already said something to them about not running or they already have him as losing in November. If so, I hope he cuts his price, $30 million was ridiculous, although he did give some back to polish up the fx. More likely to get less cash and some percentage this time out. Looks like from their comments some time ago, that Stahl and Danes were told that producers were going a different direction and they would not be needed. Since then, Danes has all but apologized for being in T3 with the promise never to do one again. Hurt feelings or not, T3 will be the largest grossing pic she'll ever be in. Larger now, I think, than everything else all added together. Personally, I thought these two fine young actors brought a lot to the story and recasting them effectively could be another obstacle to surmount. Money talks however, and they are still under contract. Structure wise, T4 has to be different from the first 3 but pretty well a story already told. It may be more difficult to surprise us.

  • April 7, 2006, 4:21 p.m. CST

    lol...Katie Holmes

    by brycemonkey

    Read the IMDB news today. A journalist said she grinned vacantly throughout Tom's interview, even when Tom spoke of being beaten and abused. Sounds like the 'Re-education' stage is complete!

  • April 7, 2006, 4:23 p.m. CST

    phaedrus007.... On Killing

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Yeah there never looked to be all that many resistance fighters, and they were cranking Terminators out on assembly lines along with serious HK vehicles. So yeah, the resistance had to be kicking some ass. And presumably they had factories of their own to churn out ammo and missiles or whatever. Or possibly all of this was pulled out of JC's nether regions.... All in all, when the first film came out, it was a time when computers in general were clunkier, and design and manufacturing in general were actually a lot less sophisticated than they have beome. Take a step back and look at the state of "stuff," and you'll see what I mean. What flew in a film released the same year the first Apple computer went on sale ...Also a year when Ronny Reagan said "Screw this, we're going home" in response to the Marine barracks bombing in Beirut... Would be a tougher sell today.

  • April 7, 2006, 4:25 p.m. CST

    Both Max Von Sydow and Christopher Lee has left us..

    by acroyear77

  • April 7, 2006, 4:34 p.m. CST


    by CaptDanielRoe

    Roger Ebert is no liberal. What you think is a liberal is a centrist, and liberals hate 'em. Only a centrist could praise a film and then vote against it, just like centrists with liberal issues like freedom.... Annyyywaaaayyyy... What do you think about Mel Gibson as a grown up John Connor? Not the same face but maybe close enough, they both have that same toxic look. And, yeah, we know what the next twenty years or so of history in the future are supposed to be, so the heck with that, let's get to the stuff we don't already know about, and leave the twenty-something roles to the cannon fodder.

  • April 7, 2006, 4:59 p.m. CST

    Don't Talk Smack About "Robot Jox"

    by slaad

    Giant robots are always cool.

  • April 7, 2006, 5 p.m. CST

    Who is gonna play Kyle Reese?

    by the beef

    This should make for some interesting stuff. I can't remember, does John Connor know now that Reese is his father? Wait, how the fuck does this time travel shit work? Actually, isn't all of this stuff in T4 basically going to be just the flashback stuff from T1 and T2? Is Kyle Reese going to play a part in this movie since he apparently was friends with John Connor before he got sent back to fuck his mother. Does John Connor know that Reese is his father? What happens if John knows that Reese is his dad does he still send him back to get killed? Actually, what the fuck happens if he doesn't send him back, would John Connor die since he didn't send back Reese to fuck his Mom? Does John tell Reese to fuck his mom once he finds her? Someone explain this time travel thing, I'm confused.

  • April 7, 2006, 5:02 p.m. CST

    T3 should have been terrible...

    by ZsAsZz

    It had some good ideas but i kept thinking the whole way through how great it could have been with James Cameron helming it. It needed another hour and much better casting. Danes and Stahl didn't work for me.

  • April 7, 2006, 5:06 p.m. CST

    The battle to end all wars........


    The Terminator Vs. The Howard Stern Sybian.

  • April 7, 2006, 5:14 p.m. CST

    Yeah Beef....

    by CaptDanielRoe

    ....That's why I say screw the time travel component. Jump ahead after all that stuff is moot. Set it in a period where the humans are reclaiming chunks of territory with the aid of their own non-Skynet machines. Put Skynet on the other end of the technology spectrum, unable to innovate (we learn that collaborators designed the T-1000 and Loken Terminators but that on its own, Skynet cannot meaningfully innovate). But Skynet still have vast resources and can churn out the hardware.

  • April 7, 2006, 5:23 p.m. CST

    People who said T3 was better than T2...

    by Voice O. Reason

    ...need to have their eyeballs removed. All T3 did was create even more plot holes in support of a shitty movie with a great final 10 minutes.

  • April 7, 2006, 5:23 p.m. CST

    Nah, watch this...


  • April 7, 2006, 5:25 p.m. CST



  • April 7, 2006, 5:28 p.m. CST

    Diddy says vote or die

    by BannedOnTheRun

    So I'm voting yes, T3 was a good, nearly great movie. I had no expectations and was blown away. So much could have sucked, but it didn't. To have the balls to follow up T2 without going the wink-wink self-referential "Scream" route and instead serving up that ending was class. Full statehood for T3.

  • April 7, 2006, 5:28 p.m. CST


    by Harry Weinstein

    It really is tricky to think of a good movie with the number 4 in the title - at least that I've seen. There's a movie playing now called "4" aka CHETYRE that's got some good buzz on the arthouse scene. Contrary to popular belief, there's no 4 in INDEPENDENCE DAY - but since it wasn't a good movie anyway, it hardly matters. There's Spike Lee's 4 LITTLE GIRLS. IN THE LINE OF DUTY 4, or Spielberg's 1941. Yes, I said 1941. This ain't easy - easy would be good movies with "for" in the title - or movies with a lower number, at least. Since it's a thread about the CATWOMAN writers getting the chance to pee all over a beloved franchise, I am not trying very hard.

  • April 7, 2006, 5:30 p.m. CST

    Tom Cruise, beaten and abused?

    by BannedOnTheRun

    Is this where the line forms?

  • April 7, 2006, 5:33 p.m. CST

    I Thought Lilya-4ever Was Kinda Good

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Although awfully maudlin. But I think the challenge was fourth movies, not number fours. Did anyone say Lethal Weapon 4? Because it certainly could have been worse.

  • April 7, 2006, 5:38 p.m. CST

    Snow Crash casting

    by BannedOnTheRun

    If I remember correctly, wasn't the protagonist half-black, half-asian? You know'll they have to settle for Freddie Prinze Jr. when first choice Keanu turns them down.

  • April 7, 2006, 5:38 p.m. CST

    Friday the 13th

    by mcwheels

    The Final Chapter (AKA pt. 4) was by far the best Jason pic, altho you could discredit my choice as there was no actual 4 in said title.

  • April 7, 2006, 5:41 p.m. CST

    T3 was T1 and T2 diluted to PG-13

    by performingmonkey

    Why the fuck they didn't ramp the content up to what we'd seen in the first two movies I'll never know. Instead we got 'safe' action where there was no peril (apart from a couple of moments). In Cameron's movies it seemed like anything was possible. I hear there is a stronger cut of T3, which will be better to see but still won't change the sort of 'pedestrian' feel about the movie, apart from the ending which saved it all. They already had the story of T4 down before they made T3. It was always the intention to do both movies, and you can tell that T4 is partly setup in T3, with the Terminator saying he killed John and his wife, Catherine Brewster (what a dumb name that is, it always pisses me off when I see T3) was the one that sent back the T3 Terminator.

  • April 7, 2006, 5:41 p.m. CST


    by stvnhthr

    Remember when that WB plant came here and said Catwoman was a lot like Blade Runner and it would age well and become a classic? That still gives me the giggles. Quit hating on T3 it was a pretty good flick. T2 was better, but everyone can't be James Cameron. The fact that T3 held its own and had an original ending is reason enough for T4. Get Arnold and get Michael Biehn for crying out loud. Give us gritty Private Ryan type Battles against Terminators and I'm there.

  • April 7, 2006, 5:43 p.m. CST

    arnold's commentaries

    by smackfu

    are fucking hilarious. Conan was the best, I could swear Arnold was stoned for it, he just sounds out of it...John Milius goes on and on indepth about the production of a scene for 10 minutes, and then arnold pipes up and says "Hey, look at the horses" His T3 commentary is great too, in that it sheds light on just how weird his priorities are, he talks about himself as though eliminating his bodyfat is curing AIDS and ridding the world of suffering, like he's giving a gift to the world or something. Weird, weird guy.

  • April 7, 2006, 5:47 p.m. CST


    by the beef

    So, are you saying that we've got both the good and bad humans and good and bad machines? Are you saying to have it take place after John Connor's death? I just wanna be clear because it seems like you want T4 to take place in a much farther future than any of the previous films have gone, which I guess would actually make sense considering that the only reason the machines ever sent anything back was to kill John Connor, and since he's already dead then no need to keep sending anymore back. I just think that it'd be pretty difficult to have the film take place during John Connor's reign and have it not have anything to do with the time travel situation since he's basically the reason the time travel stuff began. If i've got your idea down right then that would probably be a much easier way to deal with the situation and just have it skip John Connor altogether. Actually, did the other films hint at a total machine takeover with absolutely no humans?

  • April 7, 2006, 5:54 p.m. CST

    Tyson Beckford

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Could get the role of Hiro. Whether he should or shouldn't is another matter, I'm just saying he's a half black half asian guy that a studio might give the role.

  • April 7, 2006, 6 p.m. CST

    I'll be back....again and again and again

    by meta4

    Terminator was pure genius as a lowbudge film, T2 capitalized with a higher budget plus cutting edge tech. and T3 did nothing to advance the technology....i liked all 3 for seperate reasons but each share one factor...the plotline and overall uneasy feeling the films carried represents a world that isn't as far fetched as it may seem...especially with the war going on currently and the "unintentional" brewing of maybe another war. I look forward to T-4 to see the parallel's drawn between our world and T-4's.

  • April 7, 2006, 6:16 p.m. CST

    Beef, The Idea I Have Is....

    by CaptDanielRoe

    ...That whether or not he'd be cast, John Connor would be about Mel Gibson's age. Yes there would be good people and machines, and bad machines and a few people (in the Berzerker Saga books, collaborators were dubbed "goodlife"). ... Connor's people have destroyed the chief bastion of human collaborators, the "think tank" responsible for all the superscience that Skynet was able to produce. Skynet is not set back to the stone age, but is really hurt. Nevertheless after all this fighting there are only tens of thousands of human beings left alive, and Skynet holds most of the territory of the earth, with more death machine factories than there are people. There are no more "central servers" to knock out, no more deus ex machina endings. It's a war. The humans can take over factories and unreliably reprogram machines but they still start out at a huge disadvantage. They don't trust AI and so they try to pilot everything, with tanks, mechs, and using HK technology, flying battleships rather in the vein of Star Wars and without the unbelievable physical properties of the Matrix's Nebuchadnezzar and others. I should add, that while it is only humans that are truly innovative, the Skynet robots have an incredible knowledge of all things mechanical and so are able to cobble together impressive stuff quickly. This would all have to be handled in a sparing manner consistent with the first two films and not as out there as the Matrix, without overusing CG. ... As to plot, that would be mostly backdrop. John would realize the battle is best left in the hand of his younger and more technologically up-to-speed successors, which frees him to go off on a quest across the backdrop of this conflict, to try to find and free Kate Brewster (Clare Dane's) character, and their kids, who Skynet had captured years earlier and who will be eliminated by the uncompromising resistance if he can't liberate and hide them first. Of course he has no idea if they are even still alive much less where they might be, and for all he knows really are collaborators. So it's a sort of Rambo/detective story. ....

  • April 7, 2006, 6:18 p.m. CST

    ROCKY 4 best damn Rocky ever made

    by Turtlepride

    If I's can do it. Any Yooouu's can do it. Mabee, we Allls can do it. Have you guy's seen the New rocky slogan from the poster. "Get your fix, with Rocky six!"

  • April 7, 2006, 6:23 p.m. CST

    Oh And...

    by CaptDanielRoe

    ...The manner in which Clare Danes ended up in that position is that, some years prior, the resistance settlement that they were living in was betrayed and taken over. We start on the "liberation" of that area, with a couple of humans there (tethered to machines). The humans, to Connor's growing distaste because he knows that his wife and child could as easily be among them, are treated very poorly indeed. But he bites the bullet and takes over a torture interrogation in order to try to find out about them. Given a little hope, he euthanizes the subject, and runs out of there on his own before the fallout of this hits him, so he's not really in good with the resistance either.

  • April 7, 2006, 6:35 p.m. CST


    by CaptDanielRoe

    ....What Connor finds is a wasteland. But it turns out that Skynet was not really that intolerant of all humans, recognizing that it needed them in order to have a reason to exist, which was to hunt and kill them. So there are numerous little enclaves and nomadic tribes that are as petrified of the resistance as of Skynet. They fight Skynet almost ritualistically, and accept quarter when they are beaten as they always are. But Skynet has become after a fashion a diety to them, and some of their best and brightest have even joined Skynet, earning favors for them with their intellectual work. The question is, does Connor end up fighting an anti-resistance resistance, on behalf of these in-betweeners lest they be exterminated?

  • April 7, 2006, 6:36 p.m. CST

    "Hasta La Vista....Franchise"

    by Kubla_Khan

    Got here late, bah! Catwoman was genius. I mean it! Halle Berry gets brought back to life by a magic cat. A magic cat! Then she discovers S and M! What's not to like? Except everything? Anyway, me personally, I quite liked T3, though not as much as T2, and I'm up for 4 if they pull someone incredible out of the hat to helm it, like...Snoop Dogg, or Billy Bob Thornton. Throw in that hot chick from Planet Of The Apes in a rag bikini, a couple of tight latina terminators, sprinkle in some time paradox nosense and add some giant ray gun action, I'm there. But I won'y promise to be sober, or wholly awake. Oh, and Critters 4 was amazing. They were like, in space and stuff.

  • April 7, 2006, 6:40 p.m. CST

    John Connor's age

    by Anakin Whoopass

    As to whether he was 10 or 13 in T2, two excuses I can think of are that T3 changed the timeline of T2 and we're seeing the T3 timeline that is caused by the events of T3 (T1 has the same paradox), or perhaps John Connor really was 10 and lied about his age so 13-year-old Kate wouldn't treat him like a baby, and he maintains that lie as an adult because, why tell her?

  • April 7, 2006, 6:48 p.m. CST

    yeah...dumb taglines Merrick

    by jrbarker

    just keep it simple

  • April 7, 2006, 6:48 p.m. CST

    T4 needs a visionary: VERHOEVEN , McTIERNAN, SCOTT...

    by ABking

    If I were Andrew Vajna and Mario Kassar, I would get either Paul Verhoeven, John McTiernan or a Ridley Scott to direct TERMINATOR 4 to bring EPIC vision to the screen!!! And they NEED Schwarzenegger!!! Are you greedy bastard producers listening!!!

  • April 7, 2006, 6:55 p.m. CST

    Michael Biehn can play Reese because T3 bumped...

    by lutz

    the entire time line ten years into the future. So he is either older, he got killed by judgement day or he isn't born at all.

  • April 7, 2006, 6:56 p.m. CST

    I Agree ABking Except...

    by CaptDanielRoe

    ...About Schwarzenegger. The whole point of his character and casting in the first place is that he was an outer wrapper that looked, and could act like, he contained a robot. Frankly I never liked the idea that there were multiple models that looked like him. I'd have prefered it if it turned out, say, that they weren't actually grown (the skins) but were harvested off of human victims and kept alive at a cellular level. Schwarzenegger is too old now for this to matter. He should play some other role that uses the strength and appeal he does have. Doing Terminator is like the Rolling Stones playing Satisfaction... Enough already, it's not necessary. ... As for directors good choices, of course, who could argue with them... But I'd like to add to that list... Francis Ford Coppola. Yep, I said it. Hell his first movie was science fiction, and he can do war. He'd never do it, but as long as we are dreaming...

  • April 7, 2006, 6:59 p.m. CST

    Timeline Paradox

    by Gorrister

    I saw at least one person comment that T3 "corrected" the paradox that T2 caused. Keep in mind that T2 (although I didn't even like that movie) was ALL ABOUT paradox. If you saw the original ending that Cameron filmed for that movie (but the studio forced him to yank) you would better understand that. In short, T2 began and ended on the same day! The beginning shows John Connor leading the final attack on Skynet before sending the Terminator back in time. The ORIGINAL ending occurred during the same point in time, except it showed Sarah sitting on a bench at the playground we saw in her nuclear nightmare. She's an old woman, still making her audio diary and wondering where Reese is in this timeline. John Connor is revealed to be playing on the playground with his children. That was how the Terminator series was supposed to end before the studio fucked it all up.

  • April 7, 2006, 6:59 p.m. CST

    Fantastic IV was good (Don't Tell Harry)

    by cookylamoo

  • April 7, 2006, 7 p.m. CST

    The Other Idea That I Had

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Dating back to Terminator 1, was that John Connor would grow up to be Schwarzenegger. But Eddie Furlong put a slight crimp in that plan, as did the not-Schwarzenegger shot (although not too far off really) of Connor in T2. Nick Stahl? No.... But Biehn had a face enough like Schwarzenegger to be his father. Well, maybe. Okay, no. Nevermind. Too Lucas-incestuous.

  • April 7, 2006, 7 p.m. CST

    And T2 already showed Judement Day!

    by lutz

    And it did a better job than T3. It showed us cars and buildings being tossed about in the explosion. It showed us CHILDREN being destroyed in a park. And people having their skin ripped off from the explosion. At the end of T3 it was just like "Oh there goes the world". In the other two Terminaters there was psychology. There was a feeling when these things happened. The first two movies showed us the future and showed us judgement day and then they settled everything in the present. T3 didn't add anything to this and T4 won't either.

  • April 7, 2006, 7:02 p.m. CST

    What T3 SHOULD have been.....

    by Gorrister

    T3 should not have regurgitated the exact same formule that T1 and T2 had. It SHOULD have told the story of the war between humanity and Skynet and ended with John sending two terminators back in time.

  • April 7, 2006, 7:05 p.m. CST

    Fantastic Four

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Was not as terrible as it could have been and somewhat got the tone of the Ultimate FF down. But for those who consider Byrne cannon, and have any idea what New York City is like, or Eastern Europe, or the coprporate world, or space travel, or human relationships.... Well no offense, let's put it this way... People who CARE about those things over prancing around and sneering in spandex....

  • April 7, 2006, 7:12 p.m. CST

    Why Arnold will NEVER be in this production:

    by GreatWhiteNoise

    Read carefully: they're shooting in AUSTRALIA. After the major-league stink Arnold made in his campaign about keeping productions in California (and out of Canada), you can't possilby think that he's just going to pop off Down Under and make this movie. He took a substantial personal pay cut just to get T3 moved back to LA from Vancouver. There's no way he's going to flip-flop like that. (Not if he ever wants to be credibly involved in California politics ever again, anyway.)

  • April 7, 2006, 7:12 p.m. CST

    Ah Hell, I'll Say It...

    by CaptDanielRoe

    ...Rikki Lee Travolta IS The Terminator.

  • April 7, 2006, 7:14 p.m. CST

    Great White Noise

    by CaptDanielRoe


  • April 7, 2006, 7:25 p.m. CST

    John sending two terminators back in time

    by quadrupletree

    I don't get it, why two? He only sent one back, the Arnold in T2. Skynet sent two back, the Arnold in T1 and the T2000 in T2....

  • April 7, 2006, 7:36 p.m. CST

    My bad

    by Gorrister

    Yeah, you are right. I forgot. John didn't sent the one back in T3. Have to forgive me on that one. I havent' seen the movie since it was in theaters.

  • April 7, 2006, 7:38 p.m. CST

    More on McTIERNAN, T4 , Schwarzenegger Kassar and Vajna

    by ABking

    Thanks to egendary action film director John McTiernan has been charged with lying to the FBI, becoming the first entertainment industry figure accused in the unfolding investigation of wiretapping and other alleged wrongdoing by Hollywood private eye Anthony Pellicano. Prosecutors alleged on Monday that McTiernan, 55, whose directing credits include Predator, the first and third Die Hard movies and The Hunt for Red October, lied about having hired Pellicano to wiretap the veteran film producer, Charles Roven. McTiernan denied any knowledge of wiretapping by Pellicano in a February 13 interview with FBI agents, prosecutors claim, even though he hired and paid the infamous private eye to wiretap Mr Roven. The charges do not say when the wiretapping happened, why it happened or how much Pellicano was paid. McTiernan and Mr Roven were producers of the 2002 movie flop Rollerball, which McTiernan also directed. McTiernan is the 14th person charged in the burgeoning investigation of Pellicano, who is accused of directing a racketeering enterprise that unlawfully wiretapped and conducted illegal background checks on dozens of celebrities and executives, including actor Sylvester Stallone, comedians Garry Shandling and Kevin Nealon, and real estate developer Robert Maguire. McTiernan is scheduled for an arraignment April 17 on a charge that carries a maximum five-year jail sentence. With the investigation roiling legal and entertainment circles, the charge against McTiernan seemed to come from nowhere, and indicates that the inquiry is rapidly developing new investigative avenues as prosecutors continue sorting through mounds of documents and hours of tape recordings seized from Pellicano's office. McTiernan's name was not among a shortlist of Hollywood lawyers and entertainment figures thought to be among those facing possible indictment. That Mr Roven also was not among a list of 81 individuals named as Pellicano's victims in the latest 110-count indictment shows that the breadth of Pellicano's alleged activities has not been fully revealed. Last month, prosecutors disclosed in court that they expected at least one more indictment by mid-April in connection with the Pellicano case. But sources said on Monday that the charge against McTiernan was not the one they had referred to, meaning there are more indictments to come. The question now is, if McT has to serve time in jail, will he be able to get work once he comes back to Hollywood? After this case is over and all is said and done, McT's reputation might be up in the air in Hollywood. Maybe studio's or producers will turn their back on John. In that case, Arnold can give McT some work on his post-governator action films. If Arnie looses the race in January to serve a 2nd term in office, the oak must come up with a quick game plan to keep his film career alive for the next couple of decades. John McTiernan and Arnold were a box-office action/adventure force with PREDATOR, grossing 59 million domestic and a powerful 98 million worldwide in 1987. Then in 1993, LAST ACTION HERO became one of the most hype films in history. Arnie and McT seemed like they would dominate the summer box-office with this tent pole event movie. In the end, the action spoof didn't live up to the 204 million domestic gross that TERMINATOR 2 made two years before, but LAST ACTION HERO still was the number 12th biggest box-office hit of 1993, grossing 50 million domestic and a huge 137 million worldwide. The best possible movie for the action team of Schwarzenegger and McTiernan to make next is TRUE LIES 2. Arnold should still make this film once out of office, even if James Cameron doesn't return. Cameron can produce it through Lightstorm Entertainment and John McTiernan can direct. McT has worked with 20th Century Fox numerous times on the DIE HARD films and PREDATOR, so making TRUE LIES 2 would work in his favor. Plus John is a filmmaker who helped shape the action genre with 1988's DIE HARD. It would be great to see what this master can bring to the table with the spy sequel. Cameron doesn't have to be a hands on producer on TRUE LIES 2, all he has to do is produce through Lightstorm Entertainment and let Arnold run the show with McT. Action fans would line up around the block to see the names Schwarzenegger, Cameron and McTiernan on the poster for TRUE LIES 2. The next best project Arnie and McT can do together is TERMINATOR 4. Producer Andrew Vajna is now looking for a new director for T4 and he has worked with McTiernan before on MEDICINE MAN back in the 90's. Vajna also considered McT to direct TERMINATOR 3 and the hungarian prodcuer's current flop BASIC INSTINCT 2. The best bet for a sure fire hit for McT would be to direct T4 for his pals Schwarzenegger and Vajna. Another film McT can take a stab at for Arnie is CRUSADE. Acclaimed screenwriter William Goldman has apparently dusted off the old Crusade screenplay (originally written by Walon Green) with plans to get the film up again. The long-in-development epic may even still star Arnold Schwarzenegger, who has been linked to the project since its conception a decade or two back. No word if Jennifer Connelly, who was attached to the film in it's early years, is still involved. Goldman worked on the original draft of the film at some point when director Paul Verhoeven (Total Recall) was slated to direct. They got so far as having promotional material in the trades and release dates on theatre exhibitors calendars

  • April 7, 2006, 7:38 p.m. CST

    Best Movie with 4 in the Title?

    by HK_Cavalier

    C1T1Z3N K4N3

  • April 7, 2006, 7:47 p.m. CST


    by HK_Cavalier

    Main Entry: cred

  • April 7, 2006, 7:49 p.m. CST

    T franchise

    by mrtorrance

    I kind of liked T3 and even bought the no-frills T3 dvd and enjoyed it a good handfull of times. The terminator movies could go on forever as far as i can tell. i like them as big time movie events.

  • April 7, 2006, 8:14 p.m. CST

    The problem with 3

    by Krazeyivan

    How the fuck did she have a freckin gun in her arm. I thought they could not bring advanced weapons through?!? Hence hunting for current time weapons like the "Uzi 9mm" in the first film. T2 was big budget but still good - say thats a nice bike.......

  • April 7, 2006, 8:29 p.m. CST

    So both McTiernan and our President are involved

    by I Dunno

    in illegal wiretaps. But our President didn't direct Predator. I'll give McTiernan a pass on this one.

  • April 7, 2006, 8:29 p.m. CST

    All good, Captain Daniel Roe!

    by Uncapie

    We'll combine the stories but, we must keep Maaatt Daaaamon as the retarded Terminator and Brooke Shields as "The Mayor." I have contractual obligations to keep, you know.

  • April 7, 2006, 8:32 p.m. CST

    So, what you're saying is, I Dunno...

    by Uncapie

    ...that Georgey Porgey should direct the next Predator movie? That' s possible. He'll need a new job in 2008.

  • April 7, 2006, 8:36 p.m. CST

    I still want KING CONAN MORE THAN THIS!!

    by Drath

    If the big Ahnuld is going to finally go back to movies, I'd rather see him in the Milius's King Conan more than yet another Terminator movie. I think the Terminator movies were done after T2. I thought they were more finished than Predator or Gremlins, which have absurdly remained dead as their own franchises. I'd much rather see the long promised "Another story."

  • April 7, 2006, 8:47 p.m. CST

    Finish the franchise with TERMINATOR 4

    by ABking

    T4 needs to finish off the franchise with the future war!!! No fucking T5, T6 and all that money grabbing BULLSHIT!!! The last Terminator film (T4) needs to show endo battles, skynett, Arnie's robot assassinating John Conner...and show the guy that built the robots (Arnie playing this role) and why they lool like Schwarzenegger. It needs to be EPIC AS SHIT and it needs a strong director. If Vajna wants to go "sci-fi" like he promises, we need PAUL VERHOEVEN or JOHN McTIERNAN!!!!! Hell, call SPIELBERG..ya right!

  • April 7, 2006, 8:47 p.m. CST

    bring on...

    by isildur29

    Indy 4, Jurassic Park 4, Spider-Man 4, Fantastic 4-4, SHrek 4, X-Men 4, lets just leave Terminator behind us...(I did like the end of T3 though)

  • April 7, 2006, 9:14 p.m. CST

    T3 was shit.

    by Veraxus

    A rank steaming pile of contrived, derivitive, tired old shit.

  • April 7, 2006, 9:27 p.m. CST

    Krazeyivan's problem with T3....

    by oh_riginal

    Well, the TX's weapon IS her/it's hand. It can change from a functional android hand into a weapon. What allowed it to pass through time was the "skin" that covered it when "she" passed through the time portal. This is not any different from Arnold's skeleton, or the T-1000's liquid metal passing through time... In the case of the Arnold Terminator, the skin covers the endoskeleton... the T-1000 "imitates" skin, allowing it to pass through... the TX was a sort of cross between the two, the liquid metal imitated skin, covering the Terminator-killing weapon.

  • April 7, 2006, 9:33 p.m. CST

    T3 was rancid shit...

    by hiperaktiv

    and T4 will be rancid shit as well...

  • April 7, 2006, 9:33 p.m. CST

    I'd watch this sequel...

    by gopher

    ...if Rick Rossovich gets his ass kicked again. Remember when he went through that plate glass window/ Comedy gold.

  • April 7, 2006, 9:38 p.m. CST

    Conan Is Not Schwarzenegger

    by CaptDanielRoe

    Okay, first off, I'd rather have a Schwarzenegger Conan with or without Milius, than nothing. But what I really want is a real Conan. The Conan of Robert E. Howard, Frank Frazetta, and Marvel Comics. No relation really to the Austrian Gumby, or the Apocalypse Now-ripping-off script by Oliver Stone. Genghis Khan spent his childhood in a yoke, not Conan. You've heard it all before but Conan was a smart, graceful character who could have put Schwarzenegger's on his ass with a glance. I refused to watch the film for a great many years for this reason. I was pleasantly surprised when I did see it that it worked on a number of levels including camp. Nice, and I could stand more... But there are far better things to be done with the property.

  • April 7, 2006, 9:39 p.m. CST

    Fanboys are so stupid..

    by Cotton McKnight

    Let's imagine for a moment that instead of T2 coming out in 1991, it came out in 2004, and was directed by James Cameron. Of course the effects were updated but other than that, it was the exact same movie. What do you suppose the reaction would have been? That's right, you all would have called it "shit" because of "hasta lavista" and everything else. I absolutely guarantee you would do that. And if the sequel to the original Terminator was T3, and it had the name "James Cameron" attached (but other than that the exact same movie), you would have called it brilliant. You KNOW i'm right.

  • April 7, 2006, 9:43 p.m. CST

    Scrivener- what was contrived about T3?

    by Cotton McKnight

    Please enlighten us here. I would like to know what you would think is contrived about it because the way I saw it, it was actually original. It explained Judgment day perfectly, because it REALLY made no sense before T3 existed. Remember, this movie established that Skynet was a virus that could not be turned off, and it also said that Judgment Day was inevitable. No way around it. Pretty gutsy if you ask me.

  • April 7, 2006, 10:59 p.m. CST

    Brycemonkey, correct me if I am wrong...

    by Isidore

    But wasn't Star Wars ANH originally released as Star Wars by itself and it was only upon rerelease in conjuction with ESB that Lucas added the Ep IV to the title? I know I've heard that somewhere. Also I've heard that the 4th in any porn series is the masterwork, the Godfather II of the series if you will. Also the 5th is usually the Godfather III of the series where the director's daughter tries to act, and you wish she would just stop talking cause her mouth is full of...oh, I'm sorry trailed off there.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:26 p.m. CST

    T3 was quite good! T4 uneccessary!

    by DoctorWho?

    Even moreso if Arnie can't do it. T3's ending was well done and I respect the direction they went with. There should be a rule in Hollywood...2 sequels and done! No More.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:34 p.m. CST

    Bryce nails good#4 sequels!

    by DoctorWho?

    'nuff said.

  • April 7, 2006, 11:57 p.m. CST

    by proper

    T3=Arnie tribute concert(Rpt).I enjoyed it.T4 could be epic.I hope they deal with it instead of stringing it out.smackfu= Rock was to do an Arnie film it should be Predator 3.New terminators needed please.King Conan must be done for the sake of history,beheading this pretender would be great.King of Kings my roody poo candy ass.

  • April 8, 2006, 12:07 a.m. CST

    I know i'm in the Minority here

    by Atomica

    But I liked T3 better than T2. I've seen them both Multiple times, And T2 i owned on Laserdisc, VHS and DVD. But T3 tied things together better.

  • April 8, 2006, 1:14 a.m. CST

    Where it needs to go:

    by Rakafraker

    Reese's story. Set in the apocolypse. The race to develop time travel. Meets J. Connor 2nd reel. Skynet develops cool vehicles/weapons, T-1000 (Ahnold cameo) and time travel. Reese steals time tech (moral dilemma), goes back to change things from happening. Crazy time paradox happens. Connor finds out out what happened, steals T-1000 tech, rewire's it, sends it back, just to be taken out by our trusty T1 (no moral dilemma) that travels back. Robots win. Circle complete, goodnight. Then a series of films set between the timeframes of T4 and the Matrix (live action Animatrix-type stuff, perhaps?).

  • April 8, 2006, 1:38 a.m. CST

    Forgot the part:

    by Rakafraker

    Where it ends with the TX being created (Loken could return or they could find a look-alike from behind easily enough).

  • April 8, 2006, 1:55 a.m. CST

    And to tie it all up:

    by Rakafraker

    Connor only had the plans for the first T-1000 Ahnold model and 'cloned' it when he knew how fast Skynet was making new, mega-cool stuff by seeing the killing power of the TX and T-1000 when they shape-shift through all the high-ranking resistance members to get to him (just in case no Patrick or Loken). BTW - I meant the original Terminator in the first post, not the T-1000. Zoinks!

  • April 8, 2006, 2:47 a.m. CST

    I've said it before, chances are I'll say it again

    by BendersShinyAss

    Catwoman is in the exact same standard and league as Spiderman. I watched it and all I could think was 'this is just spiderman'. In fact, with the bouncing cleavage it may have been slightly better. Just saying is all.

  • April 8, 2006, 2:57 a.m. CST

    Isn't the Rock going to be in T4?

    by Fugazi32

    ...heard that somewhere!

  • April 8, 2006, 3:03 a.m. CST

    T4........ It really could be quite good. ya dig?

    by BendersShinyAss

    Imagine Arnold cameo-ing as a 'face' of the T800 design. Along side his rival scientist Robert Patric. Make the T800 & T1000's fully CGI and show them ALL being sent back for BOTH Terminators 1 & 2. And 3. Mix that plot in with the death of John Conner and hey presto - a nice twist we didn't see coming and hey presto - it's a wrap up to the franchise that just speaks to us all. C'mon. We're all mortal, lets get excited and behind this. bunch of fuckers!

  • April 8, 2006, 3:58 a.m. CST

    The biggest reason T3 sucked.......

    by Doc_Strange

    They didn't bring in Brad Fiedel to score the movie. The composer they did use didn't have any kind of theme throughout the whole movie and the Terminator theme was used rather lame at the credits. Bad, bad move there.

  • April 8, 2006, 4:01 a.m. CST

    And another thing

    by Doc_Strange

    I hope that T4 will be the final nail in the coffin for The Rock's movie career. The man just can't act or get a blockbuster to save his life. Rock, let's be honest. Get back in the ring and give everyone what they want: The People's elbow. We don't want to see your movies, no really, we don't.

  • April 8, 2006, 4:15 a.m. CST

    Angry Comic Shop Guy speaks:

    by RossCobretti

    Wow! TERMINATOR 4?!?! The people that wrote CATWOMAN and THE NET, plus the guy that brought everything together for RAMBO? Real Sci-Fi eh? The highly improbable inclusion of the Govna' of Californya? This sounds like the BEST idea for a movie EVER!!!! What it needs is direction by Tom Hanks and it will be the most AMAZING FUCKING PICTURE. If only the ideas guys and gals could come up with something original, like the Dodgernator, or the Pornogator...

  • April 8, 2006, 4:38 a.m. CST

    T3 is on par with T1 and better than T2

    by Lord_Soth

    From the story aspect. As a mindless action film T2 is the ultimate badass of all time. T4 should be total war!

  • April 8, 2006, 5:47 a.m. CST


    by CuervoJones

    No Cameron= no real Terminator

  • April 8, 2006, 6:59 a.m. CST


    by Aston Lad

    Hey, I love McTiernan's early work as much as you do. But look at his output of recent years. He's had only 1 hit in the last decade, Thomas Crown Affair. Haven't seen Basic or Rollerball but I hear they sucked. 13th Warrior wasn't disastrous, but still poor for a guy who once gave the world Die Hard. And even Die Hard 3 was pretty poor on repeat viewings. It made a fortune but that was 11 years ago. I used to idolise this guy, wanted a career just like his, but the man I once saw as a master of action cinema is a has-been regardless of this wire-tapping scandal. He needs to re-prove his talent in a smaller project before I'd trust him with the likely $200m budget of any future Terminator film...having said that, the franchise has such a good record of home video/DVD sales years after cinematic release that any sequel is bound to get the money back eventually, as long as it's half-good.

  • April 8, 2006, 7:10 a.m. CST


    by kwisatzhaderach

    Are you seriously saying T3 is the best Terminator film? You should be locked in a basement with no windows and no TV for all eternity....

  • April 8, 2006, 9:55 a.m. CST

    T4 Storyline - Govenor of Kaleefornyah Killed by a....

    by donuts

    Giant Terminator Donut - Code Named L.A.R.D (Lame Arnold Removal Device)

  • April 8, 2006, 9:56 a.m. CST

    I hope this doesn't

    by GaiustheBrave

    turn into a repetition of the first three. One good terminator fighting another, evil one in order to protect someone. This is the perfect chance to expand what a Terminator movie can be. Also, I imagine the reason why fourth installments suck so much is that by number four, no "real" director or writers or actors will want to be involved. Though, perhaps this isn't always the case. The other reason, I would imagine, is by number four the barrel's pretty empty, so you're scraping all the crap left at the bottom in order to capitalize on amoney-making franchise. Of course, if you count Batman Begins as a fifth installment, then this shows what I just said isn't always the case.

  • April 8, 2006, 9:58 a.m. CST


    by GaiustheBrave

    the fourth did make me want to kill everyone involved, including the innocent usher who sold me the ticket without warning me.

  • April 8, 2006, 10:12 a.m. CST

    What? Max Von Sydow & Christopher Lee dead?

    by half vader

    What are you on about, Acroyear77? I can't find anything about it on the net. Who told you this?____________As for T3, the point of T2 was that there's no fate, the future's not set in stone. Then T3 comes along and says,"Bullshit, it's inevitable". That's what I remembered from my viewing way back when. I bet Cameron was pissed.

  • April 8, 2006, 10:20 a.m. CST

    There IS one reason NOT to make this film

    by BendersShinyAss

    James Cameron: "It was good, but not the direction I would have taken it"

  • April 8, 2006, 10:52 a.m. CST

    I dont think its fair to attribute Catwoman to ONE


    There were several writers.

  • April 8, 2006, 11:02 a.m. CST


    by robotdevil

    Spidey Teaser site is active...

  • April 8, 2006, 12:19 p.m. CST

    T3 was the LAST FILM IN THE CYCLE!

    by RezE11even

    Regardless of the quality of T3(Ok it sucked) the 3 films followed technology from the future in our time. The Terminator films are not and should not be about the war in the future. We've gotten flashes of it in all three films. That's all we need. The story already came full circle- hell, the flashes of the future in the third film seemed to imply the humans could win the war.

  • April 8, 2006, 1:16 p.m. CST

    yeah looks like venom will be in it after all

    by misnomer

  • April 8, 2006, 1:17 p.m. CST

    T3 should have been the future war

    by I Dunno

    and Connor and SkyNet sending their forces through the time thingie. Nice tight trilogy that brought everything full circle. And there didn't have to be a Judgement Day. Time travel stories almost always have the paradox where someone or something from the future is still around even though what creates them in the future is erased. It's like Doc Brown's tangent theory. But anyway, this is the second time Cameron's movie was shat upon. Alien 3 completly negated what Cameron did in Aliens during the opening credits. Next they'll have a sequel to Tianic where Jack survived and Rose got back with her fiance.

  • April 8, 2006, 2:45 p.m. CST

    Arnold already shot T 4: The Tookie Williams Execution

    by Napolean Solo

    It went straight to video though

  • April 8, 2006, 3:24 p.m. CST

    T 4: The Tookie Williams Execution

    by DoctorWho?

    I'll rent that.

  • April 8, 2006, 3:53 p.m. CST

    The whole time paradox problem

    by TimBenzedrine

    I haven't followed this closely in previous talkbacks, so I'm unaware of how fanatically this has been hashed over.Personally, I'm a believer in the theory of time being a straight line (none of that Doc Brown residule timeline crap)-that if one were to travel back in time it would result in erasing everything up to that point, similar to what happens when you rewind a piece of recording tape. In order for any of the sequels to make sense,(and the first film as well) you have to accept that there were at least 2 timelines preceeding the events of the first film. In that timeline Skynet goes on line, judgement day happens, Sarah Conner dies with most of humanity, humans are hunted by terminators, a time machine is built and Kyle is sent back to the 1980s. end of timeline one. Once Reese arrives in his past he sets about his mission to stop Skynet or at least discover what went wrong. while in our present, he meets a single woman named Sarah Conner and he gets her pregnant. Ultimately, he is unsucccessful in his mission, Skynet goes on line, but now in this timeline, John Conner is born. He grows up to be the leader of the human resistance, and even becomes involved in the time machine project. Somewhere it's discovered that Conner and a young soldier named Reese share the same DNA. It's determined that Reese, or the Reese from the previous timeline is actually John Conners father,and that sending anyone other than Reese would prevent John Conner from being born.The terminators gain this information,and an assassin robotis sent back to kill Sarah Connor, before she is ever impregnated by Reese. This brings us to the timeline in T1, Reese is not only sent back to protect Sarah, it's actually part of his mission to impregnate her as well.This closes up all the gaps in the timeline paradox, postpones judgement day and allows the rest of the films to follow their present storyline.The second Terminator is sent back from this future, setting up the timeline we see in T3. So if you have a future war themed film, where would you begin it? with the first John Conner-less timeline, the second one that results in the events of T1,the third that created the T2000, or the forth future that happens after T3? Or am I thinking too much?

  • April 8, 2006, 4:18 p.m. CST

    T3 sucked

    by Damer1

    It wasn't very good at all. Even the cuteness of Claire Danes couldn't save it.

  • April 8, 2006, 5:23 p.m. CST

    Star Trek 4 wasn't half bad...

    by Damer1

    and I hate Trekkers and Trekkies and all that comes with them.

  • April 8, 2006, 8:25 p.m. CST

    Well, if that's true, Tim...

    by GaiustheBrave

    then what happens if someone from the future were to come and visit us in our present time? Would we experience it, or would some other us in an alternate, replacing reality experience it? If each change in the timeline erases that timeline replacing it with a new one, then what happens to, say, a kid born in the first but not the second? (I'm not asking this antagonistically. This just brings me back to philosphy club; we'd all get drunk and argue, sometimes fighting. Ah. The golden days are gone my friend. Or, are they...?) As for Star Trek 4. I loved it when I was a kid. If it weren't for ST4, I'd have never learned the word cetacean, never. BTW, an alternative theory, though not well represented in the Terminator films, is that there is only one timeline. So, anything that happens in the past as a result of the future has already happened. So, if you went back in time and told Einstein the Special Theory of Relativity before he figured it out himself, then that was how he found it out before. Which leaves you with an interesting paradox. Who came up with Special Theory of Relativity? One Answer: The Cylon God! Bow!

  • April 8, 2006, 8:50 p.m. CST

    movie with a 4 in the title

    by thebearovingian

    CB-4; remember that gangsta rap parody? So you can feel da..sweat from my balls! Sweat from my balls! I'd f**k your sister, I'd f**k your cat, I'd f**k your mom but the bitch is too fat

  • April 8, 2006, 8:53 p.m. CST

    Best part of Trek 4

    by Doc_Strange

    The bus scene with the punk rocker dude. Probably one of the funniest scenes in cinema.

  • April 8, 2006, 10:27 p.m. CST

    I agree its the worst of the series

    by JiggamanSpence

    i dont think its a bad film though. i wish it had been less jokey and taken itself as seriously as the first two installments, but other than that it was a fun ride with a great ending, and Nick Stahl is very good and believable as john connor. the idea of a terminator prequel set in the future leading up to the sending back of kyle reese sounds fantastic to me. Put michael biehn in it, he still is kick ass!

  • April 8, 2006, 11:32 p.m. CST

    I'd love to see a big budget "KING CONAN" with Arnold.

    by JDanielP

    And I still have not seen Catwoman.

  • April 8, 2006, 11:52 p.m. CST

    All this family crap...

    by oh_riginal

    In the original Terminator movie, Reese never knew that John Connor was his son. He only mentions John Connor as his mentor/superior. Reese also said he volunteered to go back in time to meet the "Legend" Sarah Connor, he did not go based on orders. It's likely that John Connor knew that Reese was his father, and allowed Reese to go when he volunteered, but did not tell Reese the truth (kind of a reverse-Star Wars huh? John Connor: "Reese, I am your son." Reese: "NOOOOOOOOO!"). I have to admit, I liked Nick Stahl's portrayal of John Connor more than Edward Furlong's. Originally Eddie was supposed to play John again in T3, but his drug habits got in the way, so they decided to recast, and thank goodness they did. Nick Stahl looks more "Michael Biehn-like" than Eddie does, making the family resemblence more realistic.

  • April 9, 2006, 12:08 a.m. CST

    T3 holds it's own!!

    by dirtsandwich

    To all who didn't like T3. What did you watch it on? A pocket watch ..WTF. The action scenes were killer. Extremely intense and smart and original. The driverless cars in the chase scene were cool. Excellent FX. And the story works fine. I like all 3.

  • April 9, 2006, 2:19 a.m. CST

    best moments of trek 4 cont.

    by BendersShinyAss

    "I think he did a little to much LDS in the 60's" ****** "Where's my warp power?" "One damn minute admiral" ******* "Do you like italian?" "No" "Yes" "No" "YES" "" "I love Italian.... and so do you!" "Yes" ****** "the hell she did" ******* "Can you fill this with water?" "Are you planning on taking a swim?" "Of the deep end, mr. Scot" "We need to get some humpbacks" "Humpbacks... people?" "WHALES Mr Scot!" ***** Trek 4 is a champion film. Maybe Terminator 4 could do with a dose of comedy.

  • April 9, 2006, 2:37 a.m. CST

    Damnit...why them!

    by Jon E Cin

    This makes me sad.. I liked T3 and thought I might get to see a better T4..oh well.

  • April 9, 2006, 3:25 a.m. CST

    The writers of catwoman...that sound bad.

    by Reinbo2

    How to kill a good movie. T1 was great T2 was ok. T3 was not much and now the writers of the terrible catwoman are working on part 4? Has Hollywood gone absolutly braindead?

  • April 9, 2006, 7:10 a.m. CST

    Changing the past is impossible. Timetravel explained.

    by Regicidal_Maniac

    Time Travel. The time-theory at work in the first two Terminator films is the very antithesis of the "No Fate" credo. And I'm quite certain that James Cameron was being intentionally ironic in leading his characters to believe that they could avert their fates. T1 and T2 both operate as a causality loop brought about by a predestination paradox. I'm not going to attempt to reconcile the events of T3 with The Terminator and T2 because T3 breaks the series' internal logic and time loop theory as laid down by James Cameron with the simple fact that it has moved Judgement Day. That isn't possible in James Cameron's Terminator films as the past cannot be altered only caused. The great irony of the first two films is that as much as the characters would like to believe that "the future is not set" they are wrong. Cameron's causal loop begins in T1 with the arrival of Terminator and Kyle Reese. Looking at the timeline from a linear and objective standpoint things progress as normal until 1984 when suddenly two travellers, or chrononauts, from 2029 show up. There was no 'original' and alternate timeline where someone other than Kyle Reese was John's father. There is only the one timeline, the one they're in, and when that timeline hit 1984, these two chrononauts simply show up having been displaced from 2029. The events of the first film take place and Sarah Connor is impregnated, Kyle is killed and the Terminator is destroyed. Then the microprocessor chassis is recovered from the Cyberdyne factory floor and the research into neural-net computers begins, Cyberdyne builds an empire and secures defense contracts including the SkyNet program for SACNORAD. Meanwhile Sarah goes into hiding and gives birth to John who will grow up to one day lead the human resistance to victory against the machines. The damaged T-800 chip left at the Cyberdyne factory was always the genesis for neural-net processors. Kyle Reese was always John Connor's father and Judgement Day was always August 29th 1997. Time travel in this universe cannot change the past it can only cause it. Travellers to the past become the cause for events whose effects have always been. In the T2 Extreme DVD Cameron states that this concept of effect coming before cause, a popular conception of time travel in metaphysical circles, was his intention with both films. The causal loop prohibits change to the past because the traveller travels to their own past. Their own past. THE past. The past that has already occurred. Since the past has already occurred any travel to the past has already occurred. Any 'changes' made by the traveller have already occurred and so the traveller can have no effect on the past. In T2 (script) we learn that SkyNet has sent a new model Terminator right after it sent the first one, or possibly right before, just before the rebels took out the Cheyenne Mountain SkyNet mainframe and stormed the L.A. based complex. So the forty-five year old John Connor of 2029 chooses and sends a specific CSM101 T-800 back through time because he remembers its brutal features and the events of 1994 when he was a ten year old kid. He is doing that which he was always going to do. It was predestined, the future may not be set but for adult John meddling with time travel means that it's not over even when it's over. He's caught, not irrevocably, in a causality loop. For his forty-five year old self the unknown future has only just begun. The Terminator he met when he was a ten year old kid was sent back through time BECAUSE he remembered meeting it when he was a kid, he sent it because he had to, because it had always been sent. The Terminator that he sends was always sent to the past to stop the T-1000 and it always stops the T-1000 from killing young John. SkyNet should really know better, it should realise that it cannot change the past because the past has happened and it wasn't changed. Sending something back in order to stop something which has happened from happening in this universe is a futile effort. There can be no changes to the timeline only effects whose causes are yet to happen. Because John is alive and giving SkyNet hell in 2029 his past is safe because he is alive. John knows that when he sends Kyle to 1984 his comrade will become his father, he knows this because his mother told him. Both he and SkyNet are using the Time Displacement Equipment to bring about the causes for events which have already happened. SkyNet has to send the CSM 101 T-800 Terminator to 1984 because there was a CSM 101 T-800 Terminator that arrived in 1984. It failed, but it still had to be sent because it had already arrived, as evidenced by the existing order of past events, aka history. John has to send Kyle because Kyle is his dad. Apart from Dyson's death in T2 neither the T-1000 nor John's pet Terminator have much effect on the timeline, rather intentionally from Cameron's P.O.V. I'd wager. But since Both CSM101 T-800s, Kyle and the T-1000 all come from a 2029 where Judgement Day occurred, and have all travelled to their own past, aka THE past, the past of their future, that means that Dyson always died in this way on that day in an explosion at the Cyberdyne building. Unfortunately for his family, his death, although it was always destined to occur the way it did, was a futile death as SkyNet still bombed the world to hell on August 29th 1997. T3 messes with this timeline. Not just by delaying the date of Judgement Day but whereas in the T2 Extreme DVD commentary Cameron states that T2 takes place at the beginning of 1994 while T3 tries to convince us that John Connor was 13 during the events of the film. T3 changes the timeline and the very physics laid down in the previous two films by the creator, ("all hail the mighty Jim"), and in order to be consistent you must play by the rules. T3 plays by its own rules and is at odds with the two REAL Terminator films.

  • April 9, 2006, 8:28 a.m. CST

    Terminator 1 was a perfect closed loop ....

    by Shan

    .... from the time travel point of view. It's when they added the 2nd film onwards that the time travel angle started getting mangled and didn't fit together perfectly any more.

  • April 9, 2006, 11:36 a.m. CST

    by MRJONZ72

  • April 9, 2006, 11:42 a.m. CST

    Sodomania Slop Shots 4

    by MRJONZ72

  • April 9, 2006, 11:53 a.m. CST

    Perfect Pink 4: Wired Pink Gangbang

    by MRJONZ72

    That was pretty good too. I got all kinds of movies with 4's in the title that I can think off, but Serioulsy I had fun with Star Trek 4. It's no Wrath of Khan IMO but I did have fun with it. Now onto T3, I guess I'm in the minority, but I liked it. Didn't love it, but I definetly liked it. I could had been a whole lot worse. I thought it had everything going against it, but I came out of the theather surpised. Saying that I do prefer the T-800 and t-1000 over Kristina Lokens terminator, but I liked the action scenes, like Arnie and Kristinas fight, they were battling, like when he shoved her head first into a urinal. Saying that I realy liked the special effects, because to me they weren't obvious. There was no obviou special effect like in Mummy Returns (Scorpion King anyone) or some stuff in Van Helsing. I like how the new terminator was taking out these kids/young adults that were going to be memebers of John Connors resitance and I really liked the ending! I thought that is the only way they could have gone. I did not want to see a retreat of Part 1 and 2. I'm out.

  • April 9, 2006, 1:29 p.m. CST

    Excellent analysis Regicidal

    by eg4190

    Although to be fair, if T3 had been made in 1997, then the problem you've mentioned wouldn't exist -- but then I guess it's impossible to change the past. Contract and budget negotiations delayed the making of the film until after the sell-by date for a sequel, so the writers had no choice but to mess with Cameron's logic. I guess they could've opened the film with Judgment Day occuring anyway in 1997 and then given us the Future War movie we all really wanted to see, but that would've cost too much money.

  • April 9, 2006, 1:30 p.m. CST

    I think the air has left the sails...

    by dr_dreadlocks

    ...of this franchise. But, you know, it's a strong diversion for two hours. --

  • April 9, 2006, 2:14 p.m. CST

    anomalist...or should I say John Mostow?

    by LabattsBleu

    when I said T3 ripped off Cameron, I meant shots and lines (Loken looking at the metallic mannequin; the "nice car" line; the funeral shoot out with the cops; liquid metal terminator...) Cameron has mentioned on numerous occassions the storyline of Harlin's and there is a difference of being "influenced" and blatant shot stealing...I'll let the box office be the judge here: T3 sucked.

  • April 9, 2006, 2:15 p.m. CST

    ok you smarty pants-es

    by I Dunno

    Here's a very simple time travel question for those who don't think there are multiple time lines. At the police station, Reese says that the Terminator was sent back through time first. We can pretty much assume that without Reese, Sarah would have been easily killed by the Terminator. So why didn't time instantly change the very nanosecond that the Terminator was sent back, giving Reese no chance to go back himself?

  • April 9, 2006, 2:33 p.m. CST

    box office

    by LabattsBleu

    T2 cost 102 Million to make and earned 204 Million domestically, so double (not adjusting for inflation). T3 cost 150 to make and made a little over 200 Million at the box office. I think that should tell you what the general consensus of T2 compared to T3

  • April 9, 2006, 2:59 p.m. CST


    by MRJONZ72

    I'm not for sure if I would say T3 ripped off T2. I think they might have been just doing things that were alraedy a mainstream of the series. IE T2: after the T800 blows away the the T1000 with a shot gun the first time they meet in the mental ward, he turns around to Sara Conner and says "Come with me if you want to live". T1: after Kyle Reese blows away the T-800 with a shot gun after the 1st time they meet in the club, he turns to Sara Conner and says, "Come with me if you want to live" IE 2 T2 Towards the end of the The T1000 jumps onto the helicopter, breaks the glass pours inside turns to the pilot and says "Get Out", the pilot promptly leaves. T1: Towards the end the T800 jumps into a Semi and says to the drive "Get Out" in a very similar tone and delivery and the driver promptly gets out. These are just 2 examples. As far as box office. I think a couple of things came into play Cameron being gone. Arnolds box office clout had dropped conciderably. It was still the number 9 movie of 2003. Can't remember all what was ahead of it that year but I'm sure Return of the King, Pirates fo teh Carribean, Matrix Reloaded, X2, Finding Nemo and Chicago were all ahead of it.

  • April 9, 2006, 3:35 p.m. CST

    box office

    by robotdevil

    actually Labatts, according to T2 cost $100 to make and did $520 million worldwide, T3 cost $200 Million to make and did $433 million worldwide. So while T3 did more than double its cost, T2 actually made over 5x its cost.

  • April 9, 2006, 5:43 p.m. CST

    To I Dunno, because Kyle was always sent back

    by Regicidal_Maniac

    and the Terminator always failed in its primary mission to kill Sarah Connor but succeeded in bringing its own technology back to 1984.

  • April 9, 2006, 7:31 p.m. CST

    The time loop

    by TimBenzedrine

    I agree that Kyle was always sent back, but before he was sent back, there had to be a 1984 that did not have a man arrive from the future, nor was there a time traveling cyborg out to kill a future rebellion leader. For in order for a time traveler to arrive in the present, first the events would have to take place that would cause the need for time machine to be built. Sky Net would have to go on line, The machine war would have to begin,and finally, the time traveler would have to be born, grow up, and get into the time machine in order for him to arrive in the present. Agreed, the result would be a closed loop, at least that is how it would appear to all observers of the resulting timeline. but in order for a loop to occur, the time line has to initially exist as a straight line, the loop not occuring until after the time traveler leaves the future and connects with the present..But once the traveler affects the events in the present, the result will be a new future Tthink of time as an infinite numberof colored marbles falling through a funnel, or grains of sand, if you will. As the colored marbles, representing the infinite variables that exist in the future, pass through the funnel, they fall into line, creating the irrefutable past. Supposing anyone could reverse this, and arrive at a period in time before the marbles pass through the funnel and insert a new marble into the mix ,the resulting sequence would be altered,as it would be altered every time a new element from the future is added. So the effect would be , every time a Terminator plan is thwarted, the new future plays out, creating a need for new Terminators Ad infinitum.

  • April 9, 2006, 8:09 p.m. CST

    I understand your circular logic theory, Regicidal_Mani

    by I Dunno

    But it doesn't really answer the question. The fact remains that the Terminator was sent back first. The "closed loop" doesn't make sense if there's a gap between when the Terminator goes back and when Reese goes.

  • April 9, 2006, 8:14 p.m. CST

    Something I just realized

    by Goody2shoes

    In T3, the Terminator says it killed John and was chosen for John's attachment to the 800 series. How does Skynet know this? It sent the first one back in '84, essentially creating itself due to the technology left behind. In 2029, it immeditely sends back the second terminator after the first, so one would presume it's the same for the 3rd terminator. Even if it looked through news reports for the events of T2, what would it know about John and the Terminator's relationship? What's more, John's not an idiot. How'd a terminator with Arnold's face get close enough to kill him, when John knows they all come off an assembly line? I thought T3 worked as a mindless action film, the last 5 minutes not withstanding, but didn't really deserve to be a Terminator film. The TX didn't have the same "Oh crap" factor as the T-1000 because, let's face it, how do you top having the FLOOR come up behind you and kill you? And once you've seen one terminator run down a car, you've seen them all.

  • April 9, 2006, 9:42 p.m. CST

    T4: Tanks for the Memories

    by Van Damned

    IMO, the franchise should combine elements of some of the more popular plotlines of the early days of this century, just to get an Oscar nod. Skynet, panicking at its imminent demise, sends back a final Terminator to the 1950s to prevent Sarah Conner's parents from ever having her. Unfortunately, she falls in love with the big lunk and wants him to take her places in public so of course therobot ends up at Doc Brown's, where he forces the professor to produce a primitive Flux Capacitor which he places in his torst chassis, runs towards City Hall at 88 mph, and throws himself into the 60s. Instead of finding Sarah Conner, he finds the man who will be the father of John Conners Father; Sam Reese. They manage to get hired by a ranch as sheep herders, and spend a passionate Summer of exploration before the Flux capacitor pulls the T-800 even further into the future, a future now in habited by endless versions of Samuel L. Jackson shooting at snakes. Oscar gold. Buy the screenplay now for only $4,500.00

  • April 9, 2006, 10:13 p.m. CST

    Ending could have been better...

    by Kuj

    if we couldve seen some robots slaughtering humans. Love the idea of emotionless robots killing. It's like man's violent urges as his own undoing on a grand, bloody scale. I just love that scene in The Animatrix when the robots mangle humanity. Awesome. Just thinkin of it... Powerful in a way that no torture seen ever in movies could be.

  • April 9, 2006, 10:29 p.m. CST


    by LabattsBleu

    thanks - i think the numbers I used were domestic only, but your post further reinforces my believe that the Terminator series needs to ensure that the next movie is successful, or face a "re imagining" a la Batman or Battlestar Galactica...

  • April 9, 2006, 10:33 p.m. CST


    by LabattsBleu

    yes, thank you for your mature response (if it was a typo, I apologize, but its "bleu" not "blew"). Now on to your argument - The difference, of course, is that the lines from T1 and T2 were both written and directed by Cameron and therefore cannot be "ripped off"...

  • April 10, 2006, 12:47 a.m. CST

    I Dunno....

    by oh_riginal

    Your question makes perfect sense. The INSTANT the first Terminator enters the time portal, how could it be possible for Reese to follow him through?? On a similar, but seperate note: In the original movie, Reese says that Skynet was defeated... the first Terminator was sent back in time as an act of "desperation" if you will, to try to change the outcome of this battle that is mentioned. I would love it if T4 dealt with the story of this battle.

  • April 10, 2006, 3:14 a.m. CST

    Somethings bugging me......

    by Athanatos

    All Terminators have to be bulky due to the fact that they are entirely metal underneath right? It seems to me in the future portrayed in these films food would be hard to come by, so wouldn't most of the resistance fighters be emaciated? And I highly doubt they would have time to pump iron. So chances are when you see a man that looks well fed and super bulky you shoot on sight. Another thing, in T3 arnold tell Conner that he kills him in the future, so how the hell's that suppose to happen since Conner knows about it?

  • April 10, 2006, 4:25 a.m. CST

    TimBenzedrine and I Dunno (also Athanatos)

    by Regicidal_Maniac

    TimBenzedrine I like your analogy of time travel and if change to the past were possible then indeed the scenario you have given would be the exact way it would play out, just as in Ray Bradbury's famous time travel tale even stepping on a Butterfly can have untold effects millions of years later. But your suggestion that there MUST be an original timeline is, from a practical sense and in terms of James Cameron's (filmed) mythos, erroneous. It has to be seen this way, there was never a 1984 when two time travellers (T-800 and Kyle Reese) didn't suddenly chronoport in from 2029, see John exists in ther future because his father was ALWAYS Kyle Reese. I know it can be hard to get a grip on and it is a real noodle baker even when you do understand it but it's the only way. Also Athanatos raises something that bgugged me when I was a kid, especially when I read in an old Fango or some such that Lance Henriksen was originally meant to be the Terminator which would have really made him the ultimate infiltrator but with the casting of Arnold the internal structure had to be made bulkier to fit his frame. This did bug me because you think geez SkyNet there can't be that much opportunity for these rat-eating rag-tag rebels to get their hads on 44 gallon tubs of Massive then bulk up but if you think about it from SkyNet's point of view then you come to its initial conclusion if you were an arrogant supercomputer when had to wear human drag you would proabably settle on physical perfection rather than an imperferfect vessel and it is this undersetimation and misunderstanding of the human condition that saw SkyNet fall through hubris to the puny humans. That's my theory anyway, take it or leave it.

  • April 10, 2006, 5:52 a.m. CST

    Thats just 1 time travel theory

    by BendersShinyAss

    there are several conflicting theories. Most notably that stepping ona butterfly will have absolutely no bearing on the future. Almost like a ripple in water that sorts itself out. I understand what you're talking about though. keep na eye out for the film 'Time Will Tell'. It's coming.

  • April 10, 2006, 7:16 a.m. CST

    Of course Bender there are zillions

    by Regicidal_Maniac

    of time travel theories. The ones I listed were just Bradbury's and Cameron's, at least the ones that are in operation in their stories. I believe that James Cameron's theory from T1 & T2 is also used in La Jette and 12 Monkeys.

  • April 10, 2006, 8:18 a.m. CST

    I could talk about Time Travel for days

    by BendersShinyAss

    Yet for some reason, I'm just not able to start anywhere, here. The Terminator Time Travel plot is deeply flawed - the whole fathering of John conner just DOES NOT hold up to scrutiny. That doesn't mean the film isn't good. I love Termintaor 1. Terminator 2 is a much classier film, and it omits the flawed aspect of the first films time travel aspect. Terminator 3 did a fantastic job of bringing the whole time travel aspect full circle. It's been a sheer delight growing up with these films. But there are LOTS of problem I wish they would have delt with before going ahead with production. I love Time Travel films. I like them detailed. Somehow Terminator 3 shyed away from it by merely saying that the events will still happen, they cannot be stopped. I think they could have gone a little deeper with the story. Terminator 4 will be a massive failure if they just make it an actioner and don't somehow incorporate the time travel which has held the films together thus far. but I do hope they pull something out of their hats that blow our collective minds. We're long over due for a good time travel film. A different one. (We'll see how I go)

  • April 10, 2006, 8:21 a.m. CST


    by Kubla_Khan

    From what I recall, in T3 we hear that John Connor was sick in the future. The Arnie model is chosen by him or by his wife to end his suffering. Skynet has nothing to do with it. Btw, if you go back in time and step on a butterfly, when you get back, the only change is that there's no such thing as free porn on the net anymore. So I think I speak for everyone here when I say, IF YOU'RE GOING BACK IN TIME, FOR FUCK'S SAKE DON'T STEP ON ANY BUTTERFLIES! AND GIVE ACID TO JESUS, HE'LL LOVE THAT SHIT!

  • April 10, 2006, 8:23 a.m. CST


    by brycemonkey

    sorry for the delay, weekend intruded on my AICN watching ;-) Anyway, I think Star Wars (IV ANH) was originally billed just as Star Wars so as not to confuse people. When it did well and they got the go ahead for the next movies they went back and re-vised it. And so began a 29 year cycle of Lucas going back and 'improving' his work... But yeah, I digress. I also agree that the only films that are good past 3 installments are porn flicks.

  • April 10, 2006, 8:23 a.m. CST

    King Conan over T4!!!!!

    by BilboRing

    King Conan would reap huge cash at the box office if Milius and Arnold were back at it and it was rated R!!!! Conan the Barbarian was easily one of the best fantasy movies ever made. Destroyer was a smelly turd. Make King Conan!! T4 could rock but does not need Arnold. And T101 (right) do not all look like Arnold. They all look different. They just keep making an Arnold one to f with John Conner's head. Remember? Familiarity and trust cause John to get killed by the terminator in the future.

  • April 10, 2006, 8:51 a.m. CST

    Terminator 2

    by Tocksick

    Terminator 2 is the only reason I will watch this movie. That movie is a friggin CLASSIC. James Cameron's best action film and probably the best action film of the 90's. Terminator 3 was entertaining at best, not groundbreaking by any means but a a decent flick. I'll give T4 a chance just for the fleeting moments that it resembles the greatness that was T2.

  • April 10, 2006, 9:14 a.m. CST

    Ah man, Bender, geez.

    by Regicidal_Maniac

    "The Terminator Time Travel plot is deeply flawed - the whole fathering of John conner just DOES NOT hold up to scrutiny." Now why'd you hafta go and say that? (Especially following it with this "Terminator 3 did a fantastic job of bringing the whole time travel aspect full circle.") I really don't mean to labour the point but I do enjoy talking about the time travel in this film as I believe it represents time travel in a sensible and perfectly natural and logical manner. Imagine for a moment that timetravellers exist in our world as it is now, why then do we have no evidence of them? Perhaps they are only the cause of effects that have always been. For instance if I went back to stop Bush from stealing the 2000 election I must have failed somehow because as we know today America still hails the thief. Similarly The Terminator is a causal loop where the effect happens before the cause. It holds up water tight to scrutiny when subjected to it. On whatever night it was in 1984 two men arrived from the future, one both were flesh and blood but only one was human. The human fathers his future leader and then dies, the cyborg leaves its parts behind and is in effect it's own father, leaving behind its chip which would become the basis for SkyNet and eventually the war and Terminators and such. Kyle Reese arrived on this day every time just as every time this moment has happened I have always written this sentence, the one that I am writing now, now. There is only one way for us to travel through time as it flows in linear fashion around us. We live in the moment, that moment is called the present the moment of now. In the 'now' at the beginning of Terminator the tavellers arrive, do their duties, time flows around them after they are gone and eventually to the point where they arrive at the much later 'now' of 2029 when they both hop in the TDE to be instantaneously sent back to 1984 just as they always had done. This was the cause of the earlier effects and it happens some 40 years later. It holds up to scrutiny, on a logical and philosophical level, when examined from every angle. The only thing that does not hold up to investigation is the technology itself which is why Cameron wisely chose to leave it to our imaginations, even theough he did have John Bruno and other make schematic drawings of it. All T3 does is tell us that hacked out sequels to profitable films are inevitable, a fact of which most theatre goers are already intimately aware.

  • April 10, 2006, 9:24 a.m. CST

    SPOILER! At the end of the movie...

    by Childe Roland

    ...John Connor opens his day planner and crosses off: "Send buddy Reese back in time to do mom." Ewww. This film is almost as totally unnecessary as the third one, which would have been less so if it had flashed forward at the very end and shown the precursor to the scene outlined above. They should call this one T4: Ca$h Machine Wars.

  • April 10, 2006, 10:36 a.m. CST

    Yeah, we get it, Regicidal_Maniac

    by I Dunno

    You're just ignoring the concept of cause and effect and saying that "it always happened that way", not considering that there had to be some mechanism to create this non-linear time loop of yours in the first place. But even if time isn't linear and the entire structure just "is", the descrepency of that one Terminator going back in time before Reese is a major hiccup in the system because even if there is no apparent cause and effect, things have to make sense when you step back and look at the big picture. I need a drink.

  • April 11, 2006, 3:07 a.m. CST

    Regi maniac.... here's a lil didy I whipped up for you

    by BendersShinyAss Now I know that this time travel film is flawed. I've got a full list of all the 'errors'. But it was just a test of my skills as a film maker. However the Time travel film I'm working on now - the feature film version of this - follows a much more indepth look at time travel. There is no flash and 'boom' your back in time. In fact, there is no linear time line. I have a totally different theory on time travel and I'm not to keen on pulling you up on your own theories - because I'll give away some important plot points. I can say this though, Time Travel as it stands in Terminator, Back to the future, or even Bill and Ted, just AINT right! Is my film going to get it right? You better fucking believe it! :)

  • April 11, 2006, 3:26 a.m. CST

    Nice work Bender, fellow Aussie.

    by Regicidal_Maniac

    Not bad, very not bad. So where abouts in QLD are you located? I'll be interested to see more from you soon. Since we're both in the same industry and in the same country, I'm in Sydney, I'm sure we'll run into each other (in the future, heh), if we haven't already.

  • April 11, 2006, 4:53 a.m. CST

    Why thank you kind sir

    by BendersShinyAss

    Actually I already knew you were in sydney.... I keep up with these boards. hehe. Surely the city scape gave away my location in Qld. I had about 23425645 and a half meetings in sydney over the last 2 years. We may have indeed run into each other. If so thanks for nothing loser. or maybe you sold me some magic space moss. In which case, thanks you champion. (Actually I'm heading off to LA very shortly - but don't tell anyone)

  • April 11, 2006, 6:29 a.m. CST

    "You remind me of my mom..."

    by Aston Lad

    There was something VERY wrong about that line in T3, but also very amusing :) I saw the film on the small screen early 2004, didn't seem like a bad movie to me. Not an ounce of originality to it, but at least there were relatively few dull moments. The bit where the T850 goes 'mad' was a little embarrassing though. And whilst I've seen T1 and T2 many times over, I have never (yet) bothered with a repeat viewing of the third. I have to admit T4 won't feel like an event because after waiting 12 years for T3, this new film (presumably out within the next 3 years) doesn't feel like a long wait at all.

  • April 11, 2006, 8:25 a.m. CST

    The dude just can't paint feet

    by SgtPartridge

    Someone mentioned Frank Frazetta! Hgnnnnnn! I'm done.

  • April 11, 2006, 4:51 p.m. CST

    bitch please

    by VoodooV

    Skynet is an emergent quality of all modern networked computers?!?!?! (in other words, windows) you gotta be kidding me. I can buy into the idea that Judgement Day was inevitable, but the AI emergence thing was complete and uttler bullshit.

  • April 12, 2006, 12:20 a.m. CST

    T4 Idea!

    by jodocus

    Have human Arnie fight against robot Arnie from the future. Human arnie knows how the machine thinks since they scanned his brain to program the terminator to begin with. Arnie was a commando and bounty hunter before they chose him to be the model for the terminator. That goofy accent he had in the special features was just him clowning around. What do ya think?

  • Sept. 26, 2007, 7:15 p.m. CST

    T3 is...

    by VegasRon

    ...a seriously underrated movie. And...ready for it?...better than T2. I have a lot of faith in this creative team.