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2 More looks at V FOR VENDETTA from BERLINALE!
Hey folks, Harry here with a pair of less than enthusiastic reviews. What? The brilliant V FOR VENDETTA disparaged on AICN? Well, honestly I really do feel this is a brilliant comic book adaptation, and can't imagine being nitpicky about differences in the book, when the vast majority is in place. For example, the 2nd reviewer apparently hated the opening monologue from V - which honestly I began applauding during as I felt it was one of the most amazing displays of oral diction and tongue twister acrobatics... I just couldn't believe that he got it out. I'm holding my review till I see a second screening at this year's SXSW film festival, just because I want to see it in a different setting from the last film at BUTT-NUMB-A-THON, but perhaps you folks need these calming reviews... perhaps not. See - I'm that guy that absolutely loves Kubrick's THE SHINING and Stephen King's THE SHINING. (and I hate the TV one) To me, the changes here are fantastic and I love them. These two disagree and so may you.
Hi Guys,
Might remember me from AICN chat. I'm the bitter, angry, yet hilarious one that has practically everyone on ignore.
Currently on my last night in Berlin suffering from a stinking cold brought by on too much alcohol and the crazy nightlife here....so bear in mind the gunk I'm about to give you comes from a snotty nose
and serious memory loss.
Saw you'd posted a review of V for Vendetta from the premiere here at the Berlinale and although I had to catch it at a smaller venue some way out from the centre (the Urania cinema for those Plantist partisans) I thought I'd send in my thoughts. I'll make it short to curb that which is already ramble.
Now I'm a huge fan of the Alan Moore source and have rather Sickeningly allowed myself to get caught up in the internet hype surrounding this film: thought the trailers were fantastic; the
poster work imaginative and the reviews from BNAT promising. Now just before I left (yes, I'm rambling, blah, I have snot running down my nose and I can hear drinking in the hostel bar what seems like miles beneath me so deal with it) AICN's, own Moriarty suggested I calm down a little to avoid disappointment......
Alas Mr Moriarty, it was too late and I am now suffering even more than I should be.
V for Vendetta is not a fantastic film. It's not going to make you poo little Che's to start a revolution with. It's a flawed clumsy superhero film masquerading as some arthouse polemic. It's almost
impossible to not talk about the Moore book when explaining why this is such an uneven film and so apologies for people who can't read or have an imagination.
In the opening the The Wachowski brothers have almost written a dual origin story for the
masked freedom fighter 'V' incorporating Guy Fawkes that just seems to reek of heavy handedness. What fascinated me about V was that he seemed still a cipher even after parts of his origin were revealed. Here we are spiked in the face with allusions to the 5th of November
and the Gunpowder Plot whether figuratively or in dialogue form.
Strangely enough what follows the opening is a rather brilliant scene surrounding a tv broadcast, juxtaposing V and Natalie Portman's character Evey laying out some of the background to the story concisely and cinematically. Each edit reinforces their connection and this is repeated later in the film. It's subtle, artistic and sucks you in. But this concise and well paced cinema isn't maintained throughout the film. What's worse it jumps back and forth, mixing this subtlety with moments that lay on the Wachowski's message of dehumanisation by corrupt powers so thickly that the narrative falters.
It's certainly a brave move by the studio and it's interesting to see how accomplished a work it is from the hands of a first time director, but it's interesting to note that the moments that completely worked and exhilarated at times were those taken almost word for word from the book. Evey's incarceration, the Valerie correspondence and the Larkhill diary, all fantastic to see onscreen and one moment slightly changed from the book, parelleling Evey's and V's awakening, one in the rain, and one surrounded by fire, as a truly stirring score by Dario Marianelli plays is fantastic.
Hugo Weaving and Stephen Fry stand out in a cast of memorable and strong peformances. Weaving doing incredible work to emote behind the porcelain, the voice both chilling and avuncular in turn. It's thanks to Weaving that an almost hideous monologue from V doesn't ruin the character from the off. It's a nuanced performance that has to delight in language and it's fortunate that we have such a charasmatic performer to do it. Fry in a supporting role rather saddled with exposition, is great too, providing some nice moments of comedy along with one of the more shocking moments of the film. Portman on the other hand gives us a performance much like the film. Moments of such power where you almost forget it was performance, crossed with scenes of almost uncomfortable and wooden dialogue. Again, I'm not a huge fan of the script so this could just be that, but there was something about her accent at times that just didn't seem to work.
I think where the film really unfolds and possibly tarnishes the overall film for me is the ending. Every film needs a decent ending to stand any chance with an audience. And with Vendetta it's almost as if the Wachowskis felt like they were losing some illusory argument, and stamped on the gas. The moments of subtle metaphor or image start to lose out to the exposition and the heavy hand and where one we'd had punchy, relevant action, we now have bullet time, blood fests that might be trying to show the speed of 'V', but leave him as some omnipotent superhero in a black cape.
In fact this sudden turn into hyper fantasy seems to be confirmed in the final moments as hundreds of little Vs flood the screen. It's almost as if the Brothers had forgotten 'V's own dialogue only moments before. As V asks Evey to pull the switch on the train that will destroy Parliament he proclaims that it is she and those outside that will mould the world after that night, not he. And yet it is V who has moulded everyone outside in his own image. It is this clumsy, inconsistent tone that ultimately leaves the film a fading ember rather than a spark to ignite debate.
Anyway that's it. I'm off to do an absinthe shot and snort a bockwurst. Can I recommend Watergate if you like clubbing and AM to PM if you don't.
If you post this guys call me DannyOcean01
and here's a slightly negative one that I completely disagree with, but to each their own...
My own (slightly negative) take on V from a Brit who flew to Berlin to see the movie yesterday.
If you use it call me 'Powder'
I went to Berlin specially yesterday and took in the late night showing. From the start I need you to understand a few things...
a - I'm not that keen on the Ws
b - I have been very sceptical in the past about this film, but recent reviews got me so excited that I was beginning to believe the hype.
c - I absolutely love the source material - I started reading V way back when it was first published in Warrior magazine, with a few years' wait in the middle when DC finished the story. I own some of the original artwork. I'm a big fan.
In that sense it is difficult for me to be objective about the film V for Vendetta. It is nowhere near as good as the graphic novel - the film uses many of the same key points in the plot to drive it forward but they don't hold together in the way that Moore intended. V's takeover of the TV station happens far earlier in the film than the GN, acting as a setup for the rest of the plot. Evey's initial motivations are to escape V's clutches, and this sets up her subsequent capture.
I couldn't help but feel some major opportunities for drama were missed.
Nobody explains V's escape from Larkhill - there was simply an explosion. At this point V lets out a Darth Vader-like howl which is massively out of keeping, and simply serves as a device to juxtapose against Evey's transformation later in the film. Delia doesn't take the chance to look at V's face one last time. When Evey is finally released from her prison it's almost anti climactic, such is the poor delivery of the 'guard's' lines.
Let me say what's good about the picture:
- The Evey torture montage and subsequent Valerie letter - very effective and memorable
- The Creedy fight at the end - can't believe I'm saying this but I like knife-time!!
- The St Mary's plotline (i will say nothing about this) is an interesting extension to the larkhill test plot but is unnecessary.
- The detruction of Westminster is wonderful to behold
- The pacing of the film keeps up the interest from start to finish and moves it along snappily.
- Even if it's not as good as the GN it will still make you think. And maybe some people will read the GN as a result.
and the bad...
- Attempts at levity - V in an apron cooking eggs!!
- The V army - why change a classic and necessary ending? Admittedly it's not as bad as it sounds but why do it in the first place?
- No Fate. I miss Fate. Fate helps explains V's ability to access security cameras, the postal service etc. It's also used to explore Susan's psyche as he breaks down towars the end. There's no Fate in this picture - just a psychotic 'Sutler' (shockingly bad name change in my opinion). Sutler's character has no arc in this film - he's just a nutcase from the outset.
- Prothero's death - I wish the train sequence had stayed in.
- The build up to the climax is skipped over. It demands more explanation. Anarchy's only mention is by some badly-realised British thug laughing 'it's anarchy in the UK innit?'as he robs a shop in a V mask
- Do Americans believe that everyone in England has an upper class toff accent? Only Stephen Rea gets out with any distinction there. Evey is at times cockney and at times royalty.
- The V speech at the start - just a shopping list of words beginning with V. It's only there so Evey can say 'Are you one of those crazy people?' and raise a laugh. No need for it when the original text was so much better.
..and that's why I have a problem with the film. The original text was so much better and had so much more dramatic impact. At one point in the film V announces 'Penny for the guy' as he kills a Fingerman as if it's some kind of Schwarzenneger punchline. Where the opportunity arises in the film for a quality line ('I didn't put you in prison Evey, i just showed you the bars') it is missed.
So there you go. It's an interesting film that I'm glad I've seen. I'm far too close to the original to be objective, and couldn't help but compare the two while I watched. I'm really interested to see reviews from people who've never read the story - my guess is that people will split into two camps - those who loved it and read some meaning into it, and those who found it faintly ridiculous. There are many more good and bad points to the film that I simply can't remember right now (writing this from work) and I don't want to put anyone off seeing it.
But once you have seen it - go and buy the graphic novel to see how it should have been done.
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Wish it'd be out in November.
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but if the film is as half as good as this site is pushing, oscar noms for adaptation all around. the comic is still there if you want to read it. i don't. i'm glad Mr. and Ms. Wachowski didn't stretch it into a trilogy. some stuff is going to get left out and some needs to change. that's the problem with conforming to another medium. It's like complaining they made a Mac Beth breakfast cereal and then complaining that the original is better. okay, fine. it's nothing like that.
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I can certainly understand that reviewer #2 will have specific ideas about the movie, so it's easy to see why he might be slightly more critical of an interpretation. Me, though, I love V. I'll be at the theater on opening day to see it again.
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Still i'll reserve my judgement. (sigh) I thought we were getting a truly great film here. I think 2006 is going to be a write off.
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So they changed a few things, missed a few lines and there are a few accent wobbles. Big deal. If you want the original experience - read the novel again. If you want a filmmaker's adaptation - watch the movie. It sounds very good to me, and the changes sound pretty inocuous. This could have been the victim of a drastic rewrite and Americanisation. But it's not - so rejoice. At best - a defining movie for the year. At worst - an enjoyable slice of entertainment.
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...why comic purists insist that the source material should never be changed for translation of a beloved property to film. I mean, even Sin City - often held up as the paragon of comic-to-film purity - had changes from Miller's original work. And would you really want every comic movie to be a Sin City? Sure, that visual style and much-better-than-average faithfulness to story worked like gangbusters for that particular property, but I think it would fall flat applied to a lot of other comic movies. That said, V was just a plain good story, but changes needed to be made - as they would with any book - to convey the most important elements of it to a movie audience. As long as it was done competently (and by almost all accounts, it sounds like it was) I don't think it should ruin the experience for any real fan of Moore's original.
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As a film fan I thought that movie was brilliant, but it gravely dissapointed me as a fan of the book. Still went to see it three times...
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I worked on this film recently and I really liked it..totally subversive, exactly what the brainwashed normies of the western world need to see.
I never read the comics but here's what I thought
V for Vendetta =
1/3 1984
1/3 Batman
1/3 Matrix
it's probably not better than the matrix (but I may change my mind after I see it again in a proper theater)...but perhaps it's more important to our current climate. (even though the themes are similar, Matrix was a bit more subtle and metaphoric this is more IN YOUR FACE)
Everyone needs to see this film, unfortunately the ones who REALLY need to see it are probably not interested in the genre. -
It sounds like the movie is 80% book and 20% something else.That sounds pretty good to me.Sin City did have some changes,but the movie is 100% Sin City.Constantine was different also and I dug that flick.Sure I wish John was blonde and looked more like the real John,but That Movie work.Im sure V is gonna be Great.
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You mean the army of V's at the end is really in it?!!!!! NO WAY?!?!?!!! What on earth were they thinking? The whole point of Evey's long and traumatic story is so that she is strong and commited enough to carry on V's work. If anyone can just put on a mask then there's simply no point in Natalie Portman even being there. I would really, really, really like to hear someone say why they thought that was the right thing to do. Maybe they can quickly remove it before general release?
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I havent seen the movie nor read the graphic novel but doesnt the ending say that it is through V's message that the silent masses stopped being silent. Why is that sucha bad ending. Also brolly why w ould you go ahead and write off 2006. You realize its February.
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Honestly I cant read reviews from people who are so in love with the source material. They do realize that not every single thing can be in there right. if you want the GN word for word read the GN.
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100% Wachowski free!
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...has an upper class toff accent?
Probably. The only time Americans get out of the country is if they pass the army medical.
Most of them don't!
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and by that I mean fuck you.
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to the source material is not a valid argument in itself. The book belongs to the author, the film to the director. They're two different media and what works in one doesn't necessarally work in another. The film should stand on its own and not have to be an exact copy of the source to be valid.
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"I really liked it..totally subversive, exactly what the brainwashed normies of the western world need to see".........................Go Fuck Yourself.
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the issue, I think, with the failure of so many comics to film translations is that, while it's true that movies are a different medium and that changes/omissions are enevitable...comics are essentialy full storyboards with dialogue!
it seems to me from reading a few of the V reviews that there have been subject matter/motivation/point of view changes to the story that can't be explained by the usual translation issues....an army of V's?...as Opinionated has said, it makes Evey's whole journey pointless...the escape from Larkhill is really important, why change it?
when V kills it is 'cool' - it's a terrible act - portraying it with 'knife-time' undermines the act.
changes for practical movie making reasons are to be expected - but not to the point that the meaning of the source material is altered. -
Dude falls in love with his security system. Can't beat that, really.
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If the destruction of parliament has been moved from the beginning to the end, I can actually understand that change. Since it's a movie, you might want to have the climactic set piece actually take place at the film's climax. But the army of V's simply cannot be a good change. There's no way that execution can make any difference - it's too stupid an idea to be redeemed by execution. But I think this has the potential to be a nice little 3-star movie.
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What the fuck? Now this will at no time make any sense at all.
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That sucks. How come no one has mentioned this before now? That would be the first thing to jump out at me after watching the movie.
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It seems pretty clear that when this finally gets released and all is said and done, the likelihood of it being hailed as any kind of classic is about zero. It's a fucking Wachowski brothers movie, for chrissakes!!! They never had any balls to begin with. Maybe folks who are used to Hollywood movies with zero brain cells are impressed because this one has about eight or nine, but let's keep things in perspective, eh? An allegedly smart Wachowski brothers movie still looks like it should have been sub-titled "Political Allegory for Dummies".
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as it seems like thousands of aicn readers made their way into "my" country to watch some "american" motion pictures: what about A PRAIRIE HOME COMPANION ??????
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Let it go, cut it loose, hang it up and admit it. Just wait for something great from Hollywood like GARFIELD 2: ORANGE PUSSY. Do I lie, yes I do, and you know this to be true.
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British Lawmakers Ban Glorifying Terrorism
http://tinyurl.com/czzuh
1) If it passes is this life imitating art?
2) Would "V" then be banned in England? -
came out more coherent than I expected.
I'll be honest, the more I allow Vendetta to percolate the more I realise how much I enjoyed it. I still stick by my comments about it being uneven, but when it works, it really, really works. Watch the bit with Stephen Fry and the Finger Men and tell me you're not a little bit shocked....and no, that's not some new sex game. -
Don't let criticisms relating to the film as an adaption turn you off the film. If I could ignore my love for the book, I could easily see why people love this film so much.
It's a blockbuster with some really powerful moments. Taken like that and it deserves a massive audience. -
...ain't right. *possibly* the Ws mean it as a comment on anarchy (which, in the comic, V describes as being society "without leaders" rather than "without order") turning into communism, but i guess we'll have to wait and see to call that one. still, tho'... an army of Vs ain't right. from what i've seen of Alan Moore, that alone might be reason enough for him to disown this adaptation.
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...i really wanna see this!
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This one can't come soon enough.
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about V cooking eggs. Shouldnt we be grateful we didnt get the fuck-the-comics-completely-LXG treatment?
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How the fuck are they going to explain how V managed to do all that shit without it? Also, the army of V's thing is pissing me off more and more. What the fuck was wrong with original ending? NOTHING! THAT'S WHAT!
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You wrote, "The architect DOES NOT die. In a trilogy the main villan always dies." You have a right to your opinion, and I think it's fine you have a strong opinion about "Revolutions." One thing I think a lot of people missed about the Matrix trilogy is that all three films were about the war between the Architect and the Oracle, not about Neo vs. Smith. You may disagree with me, Panterarocks, which is fine, but I think your expectations were a bit misplaced. Also, I hated Star Wars, so the Matrix trilogy was a breath of fresh air for me. Getting back to my point, a discussion in Revolutions took place between Neo and the Oracle, during which the Oracle said, "That's his [The Architect's] purpose, to balance the equation." Neo asks, "What's your purpose?" The Oracle responds, "To unbalance it." This is the crux of the confict through all three films, Neo becoming a manipulated avatar of the Oracle, Smith becoming an avatar of the Architect, balance vs. imbalance, choice vs. lack of choice. It's intellectual drama with huge amounts of violence thrown in for good measure, not some spoon-fed Star Wars ending where everything ends happily and everyone goes home and eats milk and cookies. Star Wars was the worst ending to any trilogy I've ever seen.
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Star Wars wasn't actually a trilogy, I realize, it was a sextet of films. The ending I most hated was the ending of "Revenge of the Sith," which was the end of the new trilogy. Just clearing that up. Oh, and I'm hopeful I'll dig V for Vendetta.
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... that happened at the end of Reloaded, not in Revolutions. But there were basically one long movie, so it's easy to make that mistake.
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I can understand what you are saying. But I believe that those issues are what makes the Matrix Trilogy great and ironically, more realistic. There is no happy ending with everything right with the world. The machines aren't destroyed and Zion is still there. Yet the machines and humans now have a chance of co-existing together. As was suggested in the scene between Neo and The Head of Zion in Reloaded, Machines had just as much a place in the Matrix world as Humans. Characters such as The Oracle, Oracle's Bodyguard, The Family of Programs and the Keymaker showed that not all machines were 'evil.' Extermination of either side was impossible. They both relied on each other.
Neo and Trinity both dying does indeed suck. But that re-inforces the not-so-happy ending. In the end, they both gave their lives in order to end the war. I agree that they should have at least acknoledged the death of Gloria Foster but I thought the explaination provided was fine. Morpheus is defeated because although the Oracle had been correct in all that she had told him, it was not quite in the way he expected. And considering he's entire reason for being had now been killed, he was liable to feel a bit lost.
As for the Architect being evil, I disagree. He wasn't evil. At the end of the day he was just another program created to make the Matrix. He was the physical constructor of the Matrix while the Oracle was the emotional centre. Hence the reason why the Oracle, Architect and Little girl are all standing in the Matrix at the end. Neo has become the Saviour of the Machine AND Human world because now ALL sentient beings can have a choice.
Yes the ending was anti-climatic. But I myself enjoyed how it didn't take the easy way out. -
I find it funny that V wants to fight against a loss of freedom and yet there we have an army of people wearing the same face. Loss of identity or what!!
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"I find it funny that V wants to fight against a loss of freedom and yet there we have an army of people wearing the same face. Loss of identity or what!!"
That's the paradox of freedom, though, isn't it? You're most free when you're anonymous. By putting on a mask, you take yourself out of all the boxes that society puts you in and the sum of your "identity" is in your ideas and your actions. When you're anonymous there are no expectations and no consequences. That's freeing. -
I don't think that his pwoers were "magic". The idea was that he was intentionally created with a link (like internal wi-fi) to the machine world. He could see it and change it at will. Hence why he had powers outside of the Matrix--He just didn't need to be wired in to mess with the machines (though clearly it helped).
As for your idea--Agreed, that would have been cool. But, A: I think everyone and their mother thought more or less the same thing when he manifested powers outside the Matrix, and B: They didn't want to take the story that way. The story they told wasn't "how can we, if at all, know the nature of reality?" There were elements of that, certainly, but they took a more interesting (to me) path, which was "why are we here" And their answer, like the answer Rorschach comes up with in another Alan Moore book, is that we aren't here for anything but what we decide we're here for. As Agent Smith says, love, happiness, freedom, these are all shallow constructs, Matrixes themselves, ideas we use to make sense of things, they have no inherent meaning. Things mean what we choose to make them mean and no more. That assertion takes the films from the, admittedly fascinating but ultimately fruitless, question of whether we can ever really know anything, the endless skepticisim (which we've already seen, in movies such as Existenz and the Thirteenth Floor, just for two contemporaries) to the more productive question of where exactly our values come form and how valid they are. -
"it lost all consistency when they make a matrix then make the real world with him having powers">>> When Neo touched the source he became connected with the entire machine world because they in turn were all connected to the source and powered by the matrix! He could feel their presence, and screw them over as well (though with far more difficulty and concentration. You didn't 'get that'? Bow down before the Matrix Trilogy bitches!
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