Cool News
Whedon Says No New FIREFLY For The CW!!
I am – Hercules!!
Apparently my lanky and excitable E! pal Kristin Vietch keeps posting that the new CW network (which will replace both UPN and the WB this fall) is actively contemplating a new “Firefly” series or miniseries or TV movie. Says she:
I've heard the CW is considering ["Firefly"] back as a series, miniseries or movie for next season. Hurrah! For you who missed my message board posting, on Tuesday, Nate Fillion, Summer Glau and Gina Torres were seen coming out of one of the exec buildings at Paramount, where they are putting together the new CW unit.
But Joss Whedon just posted on whedonesque.com very early Wednesday to say it ain’t true. The key excerpts:
Call me joss Whedon: Rumor Crusher! (Or "Mister Fendendo", if we're being intimate.)
No, there haven't been any overtures from the CW as regards a SereniFly spin-off. I haven't even heard the orchestra tuning up.
So you can all quit buggin’ me about it, man! Read all of Whedon’s ugly truth here.
The extra-cheap “Buffy” slimsets (all the episodes and extras at a fraction of the price) ship May 30!!
“Buffy” pricing if you must have your season-sets now:
$29.99 The Complete First Season
$44.99 The Complete Second Season
$44.99 The Complete Third Season
$44.99 The Complete Fourth Season
$44.99 The Complete Fifth Season
$44.99 The Complete Sixth Season
$39.96 The Complete Seventh Season
“Buffy” pricing if you can order now but wait three and a half months for delivery:
$27.99 The Complete First Season
$27.99 The Complete Second Season
$27.99 The Complete Third Season
$27.99 The Complete Fourth Season
$27.99 The Complete Fifth Season
$27.99 The Complete Sixth Season
$27.99 The Complete Seventh Season
$29.99 The Complete First Season
$44.99 The Complete Second Season
$44.99 The Complete Third Season
$44.99 The Complete Fourth Season
$44.99 The Complete Fifth Season
$44.99 The Complete Sixth Season
$39.96 The Complete Seventh Season
$27.99 The Complete First Season
$27.99 The Complete Second Season
$27.99 The Complete Third Season
$27.99 The Complete Fourth Season
$27.99 The Complete Fifth Season
$27.99 The Complete Sixth Season
$27.99 The Complete Seventh Season
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Firefly really isn't that good. [runs and hides] Buffy rocks though.
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Shit...this ruined my night...and FIRST!!!
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I wasnt first...damnit...never mind that part...
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Looked, I was the most loyal Buffy fan on the planet - well, except for some of that Initiative stuff and the final season - and Angel? Pretty cool until whiny Connor showed up and the whole "let's work for Wolfram and Hart" thing... But Firefly? Ecch - and blech (thank you MAD magazine) - I thought the dialog and characters were just too post-hip Dawson creaky/Scream cutesie... Then the movie - more of the same... Look, I ain't a Trek loyalist, I admit Voyager blew, and much of Enterprise - but giving cowboys with crappy dialog spaceships and such don't make smart SF - it just makes a hybrid that doesn't entertain and doesn't last... Whedon is a talented man with lots of cool ideas - Angel's whole curse? Brilliant. Concept of Buffy (which has now been copied ad infinitum) cool beyond cool - move on - we all have pet projects no one likes but us - Joss will have another hit, probably several, and I'll be in the front row cheering. Enough disjointed kvetching.
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This doesn't mean the series isn't going to happen on the CW. It just means they haven't contacted Whedon or that he says they haven't contacted him. Maybe they want to make sure the actors are on board first. Whedon has already made it know publicly that he is.
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People are seen leaving buildings, but Joss knows nothing of it? Sure. Until something from the CW about their schedule comes out at the upfronts. I am not buying a word of this from the man responsible. Since, if you have the choosen collection, it's rather obvious, how many talented writers/producers could do this show with his involvement being rather minute.
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i dont think lord whego can fit.
remember he has to take his puppy along and the goat. oh and the fishies. no fox. hahahehehahaheheahahehehahahehehahahhahohoho
the whego is comic gold i tells ya.
every word is like manna from heaven. -
It would've been cool.
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interested in bringing it back they would contact the Writer/Producer creator of the show not the actors sheesh. Besides although FF was enjoyable I found Farscape a better show much darker more gripping.
As for BtVS I thought the last 2 years were pure shit and ruined the ending of Buffy being killed off in the final episode of S5 which should-have been the way to end it. First 5 years of BtVS were great last two years were not.
As for Angel I loved the show and S5 while the first part with the stand alones was a bit poor the second part rocked. How many main charachters go around murdering good guys just to further there own ends thats great TV and raises real questions about Angel as a person shame it got cancelled. As for Connor I always maintain that the charachter is interesting and good but they hired the wrong actor for the job.
Whereas Amy Acker was a good actress and did not really do anything until they killed off Fred and became Illirya. Spike was also a great addition to the show and I hope against hope we get a Spike movie though that seems less and less likely and Marsters is getting old.
I should mention Gunn but he should have been killed off long ago and never really fit on the show except as a laywer in S5.
Oh yeah Dark Wesley is still my fave charachter on both shows.
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what, you think they'd bring back firefly and ... not tell him? look, i'd love for firefly to return somehow but i ain't gonna hold my breath. i certainly ain't gonna go delusional reading portents of the future from studio gossip.
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on dvd. it was good. But how much did he steal from COWBOY BEBOP?!?! could have been better but it was fun. there really wasn't all that much to the show though. didn't they tie it all up in the movie? i would like to see a second series. the concept is great.
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Firefly failed. Serenity failed. Even the DVD sales are far below what the studio needed to make money off the whole deal. It is over and done. Dead. Move on.
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According to BOM Serenity almost broke even at the BO. DVD sales and rentals certainly have made the movie profitable by now, just not a blockbuster that would justify a sequel. Hell, the Firefly box set is still on the top 10 list of sci-fi DVD sales!......And how wonderful for Tonay, finally a Talkback where he won't get banned for acting like Whedon's love slave.
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Amazon.com has well and truly sold more DVD sets Firefly than they have of Lost season 1. So the CW network relaunching Firefly is not such a silly idea and I wouldn't be surprised if the Sci-Fi Channel is thinking about it to, because Firefly has also out sold Battlestar Galactica.
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doubt that firefly would be visited ever again. Perhaps a new series about other slayers, Buffy: The Next Generation...
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notice he did'nt say anything about the sci fi channel deal
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He's my fricking hero!
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From what I understand, all systems were go for a relaunch on CW until one of the programming executives went on the last AICN BATTLESTAR GALACTICA talkback and found it stretched out by Tonay12/13/14/Infinity. He became so pissed off that he cancelled FIREFLY's resurrection out of pure, unbridled spite.
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He's certainly not a BAD writer, but his style wrankles with me because NOBODY talks like that! Not even Americans! It's all cutesy dialogue geared towards gags and one-liner feeds. Oh, and beyond Buffy, let's not forget that his filmography is basically script doctor on Speed and Toy Story, helping to trash the Alien saga, Angel (only watched by Buffy fans) a cancelled sci-fi show and its disappointing movie follow-up. Hardly stellar work, really, in the great scheme of things.
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Don't lose hope. When the chips are down and you're at the end of the series, he'll be around.
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Not true, I'm afraid, I though Buffy was bollocks then i caught some Angel re runs and the show is absolutley fantastic, i got most of my friends (all avowed Buffy haters) into as well. Angel is seriouly different from Buffy.
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If it does come back, it won't be the same show. The film ended in such a way that any TV show will be pretty fricking dark -- plus I wager they'd have to introduce some new storylines, or at least rework the whole Blue Sun thing.
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And other equally outrageous claims! Oh, wait, they didn't? They were just a moderately successful tv series and movie that were quite enjoyable to watch, which deserved to do better, and which would have been cool to see again in some form and all until the rampant fanatic browncoat assholes literally managed to suck all the fun and goodwill the show had earnt by their asshat antics far and wide. Antics so fucking annoying it made even the most militant fanboys cringe. The worst thing to happen to the show wasn't cancellation, it wasn't the movie doing poor box office, it was these fanatical browncoats that just annoy the living piss out of everyone all over the net at the drop of a hat. I mean seriously, they're like the Hitler Youth of fandom. And in alienating so many ultimately they're doing far more harm than good. Far more.
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Thats why its sold so well on DVD, in comparison to Lost. Serenity did so well because it was only just more expensive than making a TV episode. Otherwise, it averaged at the BO & in my personal belief, would of got a higher first weekend if Whedon didnt tour every comic con showing the whole thing off. Whedon needs to show with his Wonder Woman film that he isnt a one trick pony with dialogue and characters (im sorry but he just took the alien ressurection piratescum and put them in Firefly) because my sister will accept a wise-cracking Wonder Woman but my Mum would definitely not. How I describe Whedons dialog: how teenagers wished they could talk, like two gay guys having a good old bitch at each other.
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I find Browncoat haters much more annoying.
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You guys list different versions of what can be proven, but neither 'side' does. Where can I go to see if Serenity and Firefly made money? On the Podcast The Signal, they said Serenity had to make 80 mil to earn a sequel ... where can we go (LINKS PEOPLE) to see how much it made
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I love the scene where the pilot dies in the movie. I was really hoping the rest of the cast would get killed too but nope, no such luck. Then again, the show was cancelled so I guess they all did kinda get killed off when you think about it. Hehehehehe. Oh and Joss Whedon is only a great writer if you are a 15 year-old girl. I, however, am a 17 year-old girl so I think he's a boring, simple writer. Oh, and the movie bombed. I guess you guys didn't love your show enough to make it a success.
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ok mate I'll take the bait ;).No he couldn't he'd get counted out or DQ'ed.Though it would be cool if he pulled out the ring apron when Joss tried to baseball slide him outside the ring(That made me laugh when he did it to Hardy).Who thinks Bones is a waste of Angels time?.It's like they are rubbing salt on the wound by letting him walk around in daylight all the time.In fact,in the end of season finale they should reveal that it was Angel all along(blame an amulet or something)......I see new Angel comics online all the time but I'm not reading them until they explain what happened in the alley.Till then it's just fanfic.Dloaded all Firefly eps years ago and thought they were good.Looking forward to seeing Serenity.
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Whedon tries to pump his characters full of too much wit and angst that they end up drowning in it. It takes away from potentially very dramatic moments. Farscape was better able to find the fine line between wit/humor and drama. ie: Every memember of the Firefly crew tried to be a smart ass/witty at one time or another. Farscape contained it to a few characters and even then it didn't take away from the range of emotions that the character could express.
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being a far better show than Firefly.
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Scapers were the one who set the precedent regarding saving a series. Many browncoat strategies were taken from Scaper campaigns. You're welcome.
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Please just let Firefly go already. Just give us one friggin Spike movie before James gets too old looking to play him, Just one dammit! Just look at the facts..Firefly not wanted by any network. Spike movie....already begged for by the WB. And trust me those Spike DVD sales will sell more than Serenity.
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...Leapers, Losties, Warsies, Fivers, Niners, Dwarves, Gaters, X-Philes, Ringers, and the two guys who liked THRESHOLD. There. Now it's settled once and for all.
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-Magic Johnson
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I've been a big Firely/Serenity fan for a while, and a friend encouraged me to check out Farscape... I'm into the third season now and enjoying it.
It's okay to pee in both pools, y'know. Not necessary to faux despise one another. -
Some demon-hunter thing coming out soon. Of course, that means it'll probby die quickly, but if not, he's 'booked' & couldn't do another Firenity offshoot.
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4 full seasons aired and a movie (albeit a tv movie)>9 episodes aired (I think) and a movie. But hey, I like em both.
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And freezing Whedon out. They'll get around the legal ramifications by calling the show "Dragonfly" and the inevitable big-screen version "Tranquility".
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I remember distinctly that he flat out said the door was closed on Firefly anyway after thhe movie did poorly, and they would have to pay him a awful lot of money to open it back up again. Why is this such a surprise that its over?
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Trekers did that 30 years before scapers even existed. Its well known Season III of TOS would never have existed without the fans writing in letters and holding rallys. and B5ers did it as well, so stop trying to think what you guys did was new, it wasnt new years before you did it.
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Firefly/Serenity creator Joss Whedon told USA Today that he still hopes to tell more stories set in the futuristic universe, but added that there's no chance he'll do another Firefly TV show.
So shut the fuck up about it being a rumor, in black and white while he would make another show in the unvierse FIREFLY IS OVER AND DEAD. -
I thought Alien Resurrection was pretty good. I liked the amorality of the smugglers, the super Ridley clone, the escape through the bowels of the ship, most of the casting. What was bad was the miscasting of Wynona Rider and some poor special effects on the monster and about half the third act could have been tightened up. It's not the total disaster that the Joss-haters say and al lot of what is worng with it was outside his control as the script writer, ie the budget, casting and editing.
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And I'm a fan of both. Farscape was way more creative than Whedon could ever try to be.
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episodes of My Mother the Car.
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cause I just looked and there is NOTHING, simply him talking about a return of gritty sci-fi but NOTHING about him saying hee was misquoted.
FIREFLY IS DEAD JOSS SAID IT HIMSELF! DEAL! Your worse than fucking Enterprise fans and at least they had 4 years of a series the public told you firefly sucked after ONE. -
for misquoting him. They turned his 'nothing's happening right now' statement into 'nothing will ever happen ever again.' In an interview at the red carpet for Date Movie, he said this about Firefly: "So we are just waiting to see where the chips fall and then we
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...right down the line on Whedon's body of work, except that I thought Connor was a great idea for a character but poorly written and acted. His whole Cordelia romance bored the ever-loving fuck out of me and felt about as forced as forced could be. Loved the concept of Angel as a father, though, and then to have his child ripped away from him...there should've been much more done with that than just to have Connor be a tool of the evil entity that thought the chick from Firefly needed screen time on Angel. And as for Firefly, yeah, it was entertaining (and yeah, Farscape was much better, smarter sci-fi), but I thought Serenity made a really nice little ribbon to tie up that miniverse. Those characters had been explored about as deep as any of them went and all that really remained was some resolution of their conflict witht he government. That's done. Thanks and good night, gang. I'd love to see Fillion do other stuff (aside from that White Noise 2 crap he's supposedly starring in). He's a solid, mature, likeable actor. Oh...and the kid they had playing the Doc on Firefly should take over as Angel if they ever revisit that character. He looks like David B's little brother.
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Well done, you named Buffy episodes which can stand-alone. Looking at the seasons as a whole, they ranged from alright (season 5) to just plain bad (season 7) with only the Nerds of Doom being the saving grace. I'll always give credit to Joss Whedon for Hush, Once More & to a lesser extent The Body but Joss lost it in terms of driving his characters, i never wanted to see Xander & Giles in what felt like a 3 season rut. Now on Farscape, frell you. While season 1 of Farscape is intriguing, Season 2-4 blows away anything recent in the Sci-Fi world. I've never seen a sci-fi series which actually cared where the characters were going and how they interacted with each other. There wasn't reboots every episode like Star Trek, and neither was there a sense of disregard for all but plot in Babylon 5 (I swear, fans have to put the emotion into Strazynscki's stories for him). I agree with whoever said Firefly couldn't carry drama, the actors are all trying to outdo each other on Joss's trademark wit (which is admittedly good in Firefly) that pretty much everything else feels underscored. I didn't care. But, the guy who played the captain did make for a great villain as Caleb in Buffy...until he got killed off far too quickly. Mind you, after you've killed a God what else is there for you to do?
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I loved Buffy, yes even season 6. Except season 7 was kind of weak. It made no sense in terms of character development except for the Spike arc. But I don't get the Angel love. Angel always seemed so dreary to me. Angel was always such a depressed and dour character. I just couldn't take much of him. Except Season 5 got a lot better, with the muppet Angel and Spike and the new darker Angel. Season Five is the only Angel I have on dvd.
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Feb 15, 2006 12:50:36 PM CST
Serenity did NOT turn a profit, you delusional twits...
by angry mean panda
Do you think that ALL the money from Box Office and DVD sales go to the studio? Are you people really that retarded?
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what they were doing at CW? I'm not a journalist but it seems to me that should have been step #1. Unless the rumour is more interesting than the truth. Maybe the cafeteria in the CW building makes the best tuna melt in town.
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I want to see that show on the iTunes Store. Of course, I'm sure it won't happen until the BBC releases "Heil Honey, I'm Home" first.
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episodes like Amends/Family and Chosen and for me I was never that keen on either Restless or the Body one was way to gimmicky and never really panned out on the show while the other seemed like an Emmy Grab. Then again episodes like Innocence and Becoming were great. When Whedon was on form he was great when he was not on form he was crap.########################### As for Farscape the charachters although dressed like puppets seemed real and episodes like Won't get fooled again/Scratch and Sniff/Revenging Angel and Die-me Dichtomy were fantastic episodes of Drama.When Chriton kills a bunch of innocent people with a bomb and is remarking bitterely about how next time maybe he can kill some children is much more interesting than witty quips.
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Someone finally tells it the way it the way it is! Preach on brother...
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Kind of like when a mime gets stuck on his back and can't turn himself back over, so he starts doing that trapped in an invisible nutshell bit. The only thing funnier is when Godzilla comes and steps on him. You've clearly never watched Farscape, Rothgar, and your rabid Firefly fanaticism is showing (the flecks of spittle against the inside of my monitor were the first clue). There were about three episodes of Firefly that I enjoyed enough to remember anything about. The first was Our Mrs. Reynolds (that chick was one of Joss' better female villains), the next was Out of Gas, which was just really well done TV, and the last was Objects in Space...which, incidentally, was the first time (after watching all of the other episodes) that I even started to give a shit about any of the crew as characters. Before that they were sketches or caricatures with way too much snappy dialogue per episode and no gravitas. Conversely, Farscape had about 3 largely forgettable episodes in its entire run. The rest was sci fi magic. The new BSG kicks the piss out of Firefly, although I'd never have guessed it would from just viewing the mini-series pilot. I actually preferred Firefly to the BSG pilot, which I still have a hard time believing got a strong enough response to launch the show. But, man...once BSG started rolling on a weekly basis? Makes Firefly even more forgettable. Firefly/Serenity was an interesting premise with enough juice for a few very solid episodes and a halfway decent movie (that I still think would've gone over much better on TV as a delayed series closer, like Farscape got), but it weren't all that.
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Oh, I am? OK.
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no, it really doesn't. i like the new BSG a lot but anyone who claims it is better written than firefly is talking out their ass. but then i guess that's a prerequisite for anyone claiming to like farscape.
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let me see if I can piss off any more Brownstains.... Oh I know how about the fact that more than once Firefly ripped off Cowboy Bebop, not only in the premise, but even some of the same fucking EPISODES (the afore mentioned "Out of Gass" being the worse culprit with some of the same god damn framed shots as scenes from the anime. Or how about we talk about how NO ONE liked your show even when you got a second chance, Alien Resurection got more money than it did.
Face it Firefly was a ripped of hack of a show that rightfully when down the crapper. Only thing good I can give it is some of the women where hot, Nathen is a great actor, and they did a really good job with the CG. But the storys sucked. -
I love firefly..but I don't want it coming back..why..because I want to continue to think of Firefly fondly. If it comes back as a new regular series..you know it would eventually jump the shark..
If Whedon wants to do another comic..or novel or something direct to DVD..fine..but keep firefly off the air. Let it stay a cult classic. Time for Whedon to move on to something new and equally kickass and underappreciated -
Wow, there's a sentence I never thought I'd type. But the Panda is correct: SERENITY did not come even close to making money at the box office, and has certainly not made back its money on the DVD release. Hey, I enjoyed the movie as much as anyone, but it was indeed a flop. Also, FARSCAPE kicked FIREFLY's ass. I'm just sayin'.
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Or was that just a AICN message board rumor.
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I saw the movie "Serenity" thinking it would be crap. I didn't know any of the actors and the previews did nothing for me. But a friend kept insisting I go. I loved it. Got the box set of the series for Christmas and am now working my way through it. Love that, too. Great writing, great, original characters, and a show that makes me happy when I watch it. And the haters? As Thulsa Doom once said, "Infidel defilers. They all shall all drown in lakes of blood." Soiled pantaloon-wearing helgramites! Man, I hate haters.
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They're like drug addicts experiencing withdrawal symptoms. It'll be good for you when you stop looking for your next buzz.
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...but pithy dialogue doesn't equal good writing. It can be a part of it (as Whedon proved in at least five seasons of Buffy and four and a half seasons of Angel), but it's no substitute for multi-faceted, interesting characters and a compelling story. The best episode of Firefly, Out of Gas, had MINIMAL dialogue by Whedon standards, so we know he could have gotten by without that crutch (all he would've had to do was crib some more story notes from Cowboy Bebop...most Americans would never have noticed), but it was the exception, not the rule. BSG has been gripping enough through season one and what we've seen of season two that Sci Fi ordered more. They did the same for Farscape...three times. What happened to Firefly again? That's right. Nine episodes (three good, six forgettable) and out. But you're right, I must be talking out of my ass. How's the truth smell coming from my colon?
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http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=serenity.htm
Worldwide Gross = $38.9 mil**** Production Budget = $39 mil.**** Add in DVD sales and rentals, subtract advertising and miscellaneous and you have yourself a money maker. Suck it haters. -
wouldn't "made a modest profit" be accurate?
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Yeah, it's nominated for best film and Summer got nominated for best supporting actress. No Joss for writing(its ok, George is there) or direction, no Nathan. Joss is pissed of cause of Nathan which led to another post on whedonesque.com.
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isn't that great his shows are watchable but you forget them the minute the credits come on sooooooo i my opinion he is good but not worthy of a hand job
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You realize that the break-even point for a film is normally considered to be twice the above the line budget? I mean every movie fan knows this, right? Really. Just ask...well, anyone.
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I agree with most of what you wrote, but I'd add this proviso. What we have of Firefly is only average. But if Buffy or Angel had been cancelled at the same point in their development they would have seemed average too. Now I think Galactica is a far superior product to what we saw of Firefly, in spite of the fact that it's hit a little rocky patch here the last few eps, and I would say the same for Farscape except for my deep-seated phobia of muppets, but I'll always wonder if it might not have gotten a lot better by say the midpoint of season two.
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...Homeboys in Outer Space. And then maybe Firefly.
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I hear they are/aren't coming back too.
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Serenity coming back on CW? I wish, the movie kicked ass but with Dawn Ostroff or whatever her name is in charge, no way, there is going to be more shows aimed at young women. The only genre shows are going to be "Smallville" and "Supernatural." The male demo is not the target for CW, UPN was planning was planning on shitcanning WWE anyway but with the merger they need all the shows that rate higher than a 5 mil so I think Dawn held her nose and reluctantly renewed WWE.
I think a mini-series or TV movies during summer re-runs would work, CW could target the genre audience without alienating the chicks who would come back in the fall anyway. Firefly, Angel and Enterprise could be the shows, they have built-in fanbases and I think CW could score at least a 6 with a potential for 10 with any of them. -
Whedon should just stick to writing Uncanny X-Men with Dr. Sinister and let the real writers like Aaron Sorkin write telivision.
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Yes, they are. I have heard this argument over and over from the Browncoats (quoting how much money Firefly/Serenity made) and they always seem to ignore 1) cost of marketing and 2) the shared revenue that does not go to the studio. It is simple, Firefly/Serenity lost money... WORLDWIDE. That is why it is dead. No other reason. A studio will not put money into something just because 20,000 Browncoats are willing to buy up 5 DVDs each.
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that's not truth you smell, buddy, that's just all the usual crap you have jammed up there, e.g. last week's hamster. BSG is a very good show but the writing (pedestrian characterization, predictable twists) isn't one of its strongest points. and, let's face it, the whole shaky-cam-verite look of BSG is ripped directly from zoic's work on firefly. without that, BSG's producers would probably be reduced to using the same old viper-shoots-cylon-shot that the original BSG used so often.
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Yes, because the first time that was ever used was on Firefly... *boggle* ... Oh, and make a note... the writing on BSG is far beyond anything Whedon has ever done.
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Your the retarted one as the studio already did make the damn movie because of the great sales of the firefly dvd..and the serenity dvd is selling well and will for a long time.
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... Star Wars Eps II: Attack of the Clones. Listen to Whedon's commentary on one of the Firefly DVDs, and you'll hear him tell of how much he hated it when he saw that George Lucas beat him out in using the whole shaky CG cam zoom thing. BSG didn't get the idea from Firefly. It was Lucas who first showed off the technique to everyone.
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was battlefield CG shaky-cam, not space CG shaky-cam. anyone who can't see BSG's debt to firefly in this area needs to see an opthalmalogist stat.
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see? there you go with your crack-inspired trash talk agin. BSG has a great deal going for it, but it's still finding its feet as far as characterization is concerned and we're already into season 2. but if you think that's great writing, then i have a bridge on the thames for sale.
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remove every Brownstain from this board. They are so fanatical next thing we know they are going to say TOS ripped off Firefly by going 30 years into the future then going back in time. Hell they are already saying Cowboy Bebop did when Bebop was created in 1996
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...when Whedon used 2-D caricatures to crew the Serenity? Sorry, newc, but It looks like the time has come for you to smell some more truth. Let me just get my hamster to roll it out for you. Ungh! There. Whedon cut and pasted the interesting-yet-deep-as-a-spit-puddle crew of the pirate ship from Alien: Ressurection into Firefly, tweaking a few of the character sketches here and there, but really never delving very deeply into ANY of them...even in the movie. The most we ever really found out about Mal - easily the best-developed of the crew - was that he had a nerve cluster removed as the result of an injury. And we learned that at the end of the movie after wondering what his deal really was throughout the minimized series. Now, mind you, I somewhat enjoyed Firefly on a diversionary level. But it didn't engage me half as well as the very first episode of BSG (after the mini, which I'll admit was poorly paced). I'll even go so far as to say I agree with Red Ned. Firefly had potential and could have gotten quite good. If that last episode (Objects in Space) was any indication of where it was heading, I'm fairly certain I would have grown to like it more. Point is, that's all speculation based on shit Whedon never actually accomplished with the property...because what we did get from him before cancellation was only mildly entertaining and not interesting enough (or to enough people) to warrant renewal (I think both Buffy and Angel proved themselves within their first seasons if not within their first nine episodes, Ned, or they wouldn't have been picked up again). Anyway, newc, if you're really jonesing for what Firefly might've become, just check out Cowboy Bebop (I'm positive Whedon did). It's anime, but quite well done. And there's more character development in a single twenty-some-minute episode than we got in the whole 9-episode run of Firefly. Now kiss my hamster and send him home. Thanks.
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... optometrists are better than ophthalmologists? Anyways, your argument about battlefield versus space CGI cam zooms simply reeks of desperation and is just silly. Lucas did it first, and many more have seen his work than Whedon's. Try to give credit where credit is due -- and get rid of that fanboy desperation, will ya?
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i agree. firefly completely ripped off the concept of "they live on a spaceship and have adventures", except that ... wait, that describes about 50% of all the SF shows/cartoons/books over the last four decades. but poor old childe roland somehow managed to watch firefly and serenity and all he managed to take away was mal's nerve cluster injury. miss the forest for the trees much? the firefly crew could only be considered 'caricatures' in about the same the way that leonardo drew 'cartoons'. good luck extracting the hamster, buddy.
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better how? an opthalmologist is a doctor who specialises in diseases of the eye whereas optometrists are ... those guys who fix your glasses when they're broke. no wonder a clueless newb like you would argue that BSG shaky-cam owes more to episode 2 than to firefly.
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I watched both. I enjoyed both. But other than the superficial (a rag-tag group that live on a spaceship) I don't see one being derivative of the other. Yes, the title has the word "Cowboy" but the show is more "Beebop" than Western. Firefly is Country, CB is Jazz.
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Can be explained by the fact that the same FX house (Zoic) does the visuals for both shows. The whole thing's a remediation of Vietnam-era shakycam aesthetics anyway; it's just catching on now after years & years of static visual FX shots due to limitations on traveling matte systems. (Lucas and Dykstra solved this in A New Hope by refining motion-control cameras.) IMO, the reason shaky-cam FX work better in BSG is that the non-CG shots (of actors and interior sets) are also shaky & zooming all over the place. The FX style is more smoothly integrated with the overall look of the show than on Firefly.
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Ouch, Childe Roland. Do you mean to suggest that anime in general is a lesser form than live action (and FX that look like live action)? I don't mean to misread you, so forgive me if I get your intention wrong.
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Debate all you want to. The simple fact of the matter is that Firefly has been cancelled. Now, let's shake the magic 8-ball here to see if it's coming back, "sources point to no". OK, just checking. Oh, and the characters were cookie cutter heroes and I was really happy to see that the movie bombed.
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with his "clever" dialogue - like the TB'er above said: just the way teenagers wished they could talk. BUT! i really enjoyed Firefly - couldn't help it. it was damn good tv, and i would LOVE to see more of it, no matter how unlikely that may be.
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maybe i should have said: "just the way SOME teenagers wished they could talk." i would have quite liked to talk like that when i was a teenager, anyway.
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"better how? an opthalmologist is a doctor who specialises in diseases of the eye whereas optometrists are ... those guys who fix your glasses when they're broke." Now, folks, to your right you will see our exhibit containing a very rare, soon-to-be-extinct Browncoat. One of the ways to spot a Browncoat is his complete loss of all sense of humor.
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I don't understand why everybody wants to hate on this show, i mean seriously, for an hour you're completely caught up in a detailed, "believable" world full of thought-out characters and great interactions. To call this show anything less than great tv is stupid.
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*shrug* i'm no browncoat. never claimed to be. i'm just someone who recognises that firefly was a much better show than farscape and (despite its excellence) the new BSG. a much better question is: if you dislike firefly, WTF are you doing hanging round the bottom of a two-day old firefly talkback??
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...newc, how could you have watched Cowboy Bebop and not picked up on the distinct blend of old American west/post-modern Japanese culture that Whedon attempted to replicate in the universe of Firefly? Yawn all you like, but it won't change the fact that Firefly was derivative of a cartoon...a cartoon with much more well-rounded characters and a more compelling overall story arc. Again...I didn't hate Firefly. I ust recognize it for what it is. You should try some of the perspective. It's wonderful this time of year. Oh...and don't ever compare Whedon to DaVinci, even in jest. It makes you seem scary ignorant, which I doubt is the case. Oh, and zencat, I meant no offense to anime. I quite enjoy it. But it's not everyone's cup'o tea. So I wanted to assure anyone who might be averse to the genre but a fan of something like Firefly that Bebop is well worth their time.
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except (1) firefly is futuristic chinese/western, not japanese/western; and (2) chinese/western? not exactly a new idea: c.f. kung fu or (if your tastes run to this) shanghai noon. adding spaceships to the mix? not exactly something cowboy bebop has a monopoly on. but if i happen to seem 'scary ignorant' to the farscape/CB crowd, then i won't exactly be losing any sleep anytime soon.
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Ah...so it's like "they have the Big Mac, we have the Big Mick." I get it now. At least you acknowledge that the East-meets-West motiff is yet another unoriginal thing in that admittedly entertaining mishmash of unoriginal things Joss called Firefly/Serenity. Enjoy your nap.
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I've heard these arguments again and again from you about Firefly, and all I can conclude is that we were watching different shows. First, having a vaguely similar concept to an anime show that the majority of America has never even heard of is not a ripoff. Even if it wasn't a concept that has not often been done on tv, Joss very frequently cites his references and influences and doesn't claim to just pull ideas out of a vacuum. And even if it has been done before, I've never gotten attached so quickly to a set of characters on a tv show, ever. These were anything but 2d characters. I love BSG, but it's a very different show with different purposes and a different message altogether. I certainly do not feel invested in any of BSG's characters in the way I was with Firefly (or Farscape, for that matter). But that's not what BSG is trying to do. For them, it's about plot - it's about questioning humanity in a dystopian situation, it's more about intrigue and military tactics. Firefly was about the little guy, and it had a message of hope amongst the harshness and its medium was the characters. I constantly try to add some sense to the never ending BSG/Firefly debate, but I like them both for very different reasons. But, I'm sorry but some of those Firefly episodes were some of the best character writing (and I'm not talking about pithy dialogue) I've ever seen on a scifi show. 'Out of Gas' and 'Objects in Space' rank as two of the best hours of genre television. Period. And it was only the first half of the first season. To have that high a quality that early in the show certainly indicates that this show should (have)be(en) taken seriously. To all the Firefly bashers, there's nothing wrong with saying that it didn't appeal to you. But it certainly did appeal to a great many people. Why do people have a hard time when others really like something they don't?
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Get the equation right, peoples. Or at least internationalize your genre programming. Doctor Who owns all their collective azzes (and yours). Especially you Matrix fan weenies.
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don't know what they are talking about. Smackdown was one of UPN's few ratings successes. It consistantly placed fourth on friday nights, and for UPN, thats a freakin' miracle. Also it was number one in the 18-34 demographic. So to the rumor of UPN "shitcanning the WWE" is greatly exagerrated.
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but with the merger going down they were asked to renew for the CW. It's true. It's damn true.
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May I suggest the same thing we were doing before, during, and after the original run? It seemed to be working well for us.
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but why on earth does anyone think this show/property is going to get another chance?
lets look at it..the series flopped. the film flopped. why on earth would anyone sink money into it again? they shouldn't have flopped but the fact is they did. shame but reality. serenity/firefly is dead. -
Isn't it funny that Big Mommas House 2 made more money in it's opening weekend then Serenity did in it's entire run.
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Buffy was a show that was great at times, not so great at times, and awesome at others. Angel was a better show in my opinion, and deserved one more season at least. I loved Firefly, dug the Serenity movie, and liked Alien Resurrection, despite itself. And I also never missed Farscape. They were both great shows in their own right. And I even like Stargate SG-1 with Browder's lead and Claudia Black's guest appearances, though I doubted I would. I still think Atlantis sucks canal water. It's perfectly okay to like Firefly and Farscape both. And while I'm at it, Dr. Who's not that great. Couldn't ever get through more than a couple of episodes. I enjoyed the Hitchhiker serial with the crappy effects more than Dr. Who. The original Star Trek and Next Generation were great shows, but the others were lukewarm at best. And I couldn't enjoy Babylon V for all the crappy "Last Starfighter-esque" effects. I couldn't enjoy the plot for how fake it looked. Different strokes all around.
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"My show rules your show." "Brownstains suck." "Anybody who likes/hates this show is a fucking moron." These Talkbacks have hit a new low (and that's saying something.) If you like a show, fine-- if you don't like it, fine-- but all the hating and sniping and poo-flinging at those who don't agree just makes BOTH sides sound like idiotic 5-year-olds on a playground at lunch hour. ~~~~~1.) Don't assume every fan (or non-fan) of any given show is an asshole. Shows attract/repel a variety of personalities, and even if you did have a bad encounter with ONE (or two, or however-the-frell-many) overzealous fan/non-fan(s), don't assume everybody who watched (or not) it is the same. Hell, too many people think ALL sci-fi fans are "social misfits who live in their parents' basements and need to get a life," stereotyping each other the same way is equally as moronic (and only gives them ammunition against us.) 2.) There are opinions other than yours out there, and guess what-- that's OK. If you expect other people to respect your opinions, you'd better show some respect in turn... otherwise you're likely to be dismissed as an arrogant fool. I know *I* sure as hell won't pay any attention to you, or what you have to say. 3.) Saying "I liked it" or "I didn't like it" and WHY in some semi-intelligent manner are just fine, though, thanks to all those on this talkback who tried. I enjoy respectful debates (even when I don't agree) far more than the inane insult-fest I've seen here tonight. 4.) There's lies, there's damn lies, there's statistics, and then there's box office numbers. They can be twisted in far too many ways to mean anything. And since when does box office takes equal quality anyway? It merely says how many people paid to see the movie-- that's ALL. 5.) So many sci-fans watch more than one show-- why pit one group against the other? It's stupid, and meaningless, and doesn't really help much since most of our shows have been cancelled anyway, so what's the point? And 6.) The chances of any network airing ANY decent, thoughtful, creative television these days is too infinitesimal to count...so I'm not suprised the CW passed on the show. Unfortunately, damnit. --And yes, I like Firefly, and Angel, and Buffy. But if you look at my posts, I've behaved (until now, 'cuz you've pissed me off), so don't start with me... you don't want to make me angry. You *really* wouldn't like me when I'm angry... To each their own, fine, but damn it, no more hating! (Except for hating TV network executives. That's OK, they're all boneheads and they deserve it. :^D )
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i'd like to add: "Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is great! No, he sucks! Joss is REALLY great! No, he REALLY sucks! Ad infinitum, ad nauseam." Hoorah for intelligent debate on the Talkbacks!
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no, YOU'RE a moron.
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There is a world of difference between the declarative 'NO NEW FIREFLY SAYS WHEDON' and 'I haven't been asked' you know.
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we ain't speakin' English, we's speakin' Merkan. i would of thought ever'one know that, but really, i could care less.
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since we're being pedantic, "I haven't been asked." is as much a declarative statement as the poorly-punctuated statement "NO NEW FIREFLY SAYS WHEDON"; but you're right: the headline is misleading. don't you just love being an internet grammar nerd?
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Vampires are immortal, right? So let's make everybody happy, write the Spike TV movie but set it 500 years in the future, where he meets up with the plucky band of space cowboys, who happen to travel with the this superpowered teen-aged girl...
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We won't get to watch another critical and ratings success from Whedon, just like he used to churn out. Like, um...give me a minute...
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"He's certainly not a BAD writer, but his style wrankles with me because NOBODY talks like that! Not even Americans!"
****
Real World Xander:
Peace. What's up? Ummmm, what - uh, are we gonna do tonight? Are we gonna kill some vampires, or what?
Real World: GOD. Look at this bag of potato chips. It's like, totally empty. I think they should pass a law to, like, make it a crime to only fill a bag half way, you know?
RW Xander: That is so uncool. Oh, but what about tonight? We going out or what?
RW Buffy: Me and the rest of the peeps are, like, tired? We just want to hang here, smoke some chronic, ya know?
RW Xander: AWW so cool. I'm so here.
On and on and on...
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