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Quint visits the set of Oliver Stone's WORLD TRADE CENTER!

Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with the exclusive that rounds out the biggies I got to hit on my trip to LA/Santa Barbara. You've seen my report on Robert Zemeckis' BEOWULF and my interviews with James Cameron and George Clooney and now I've got an inside look at questionably the most controversial film to see release this year: Oliver Stone's WORLD TRADE CENTER.

I had actually gotten my hands on the first draft of Andrea Berloff's screenplay shortly before my trip to LA, before I even knew I was going to spend a couple hours on the set.

I don't know about you, but what I heard was Oliver Stone's film was going to be Nicolas Cage playing a heroic fireman running around the burning buildings all Steve McQueen and Paul Newman style saving people. I honestly don't know where that came from. Maybe it was just an assumption that they were going to turn this story into a sort of popcorn action film.

My buddy Kraken had it in his mind that this film was going to be Oliver Stone at the height of his conspiracy theory madness.

Neither one of us were anywhere close to putting our fingers on what this film is.

The movie is based on two real life survivors of the World Trade Center attack, Sgt. John McLoughlin (Nic Cage) and Officer William Jimeno (Michael Pena). They weren't firemen, but Port Authority Officers.





They are one of the first teams to respond to the first tower getting hit. McLoughlin forms a group together and they grab supplies in building 2... air tanks, med packs, etc. I figured around here that the movie was falling into the more action-y flick I was expecting. They use the underground concourse that connects Tower 1 and Tower 2. That's where they are when the buildings collapse.

About 20 pages into the story our main two characters are pinned underneath tons of rubble and the story becomes much smaller than I had anticipated. From this point on our time is divided between McLoughlin and Jimeno trying to break free, feeding on each other's will to live, and their families at home glued to the TV, going through hell.

The lovely Maria Bello plays Nic Cage's wife and the equally lovely Maggie Gyllenhaal plays Michael Pena's wife.

The script was very personal, very intimate and really smartly made an interesting creative decision... We never see the towers in the script. We see Ground Zero when the rescuers are searching the rubble, but before that we're either underneath the buildings, in the lobby of one... even when we're on the street the buildings are obscured by ash. When the families of the Port Authority Officers are watching TV the script never says they are watching the burning buildings or the second plane hitting or anything like that. We just see their reactions.

Having said that, the script had a really solid foundation, but was pretty sloppily written. I'm told there were massive rewrites and what I saw on the set seems to support that. The scene I saw filmed had very realistic and natural dialogue as opposed to the forced and... well, fake, dialogue in the script. So, good news.

From this point on I'm going to be getting into some spoilers. This is a historical event, based on true life characters and their experiences, so I'm sure with a simple google search you can find out what happened to these two men and if they made it out. I won't be going into specifics, but I will be talking about meeting certain people who are being represented in the film, so... fair warning.

When I arrived at Playa Del Rey I was introduced to a very nice lady that I feel like a real bastard for not remembering her name. This nice lady walked me around the two outdoor sets that were built. One is just a long street littered with ash and rubble. This is Vescy St. It was very quiet which gave this set a rather haunted feeling to it... but that was nothing compared with where she took me next.

For the film they had recreated one full acre of Ground Zero. Twisted metal beams, jagged chunks of what was obviously the very recognizable outside of the towers and a field of broken concrete met my eyes. This set was 1:16 the size of the actual Ground Zero, which was a full 16 acres big. You get a feeling of just how impossible it seems that anyone not only would survive this falling on top of them, but also be found in the rubble.

Every moment from the 11th came rushing back to me. That day where I couldn't keep from watching CNN with a sort of wide-eyed awe. That was actually happening. I remembered that vulnerable feeling... what's going to happen next? The set was amazing and you could tell the few crew that were out there held great reverence for what it represented.

They weren't filming on this set the day I was there. I was taken into these gigantic buildings... These buildings were massive on the inside, one of those places you go that just seems to breath history. I was told that I was standing in the very hangers that Howard Hughes built the Spruce Goose in, which I must say... kinda blew my mind a bit.

The hanger where they were shooting was smokey, atmospheric. Like a sort of twisted Wizard of Oz, Oliver Stone and his crew were filming behind a gigantic black curtain. This curtain was pulled into a square that must have been 50 feet by 50 feet and at least 5 or 6 stories tall... maybe bigger.

I was introduced to one of the producers, a fellow by the name of Michael Shamberg, who produced such films as GARDEN STATE, GHOST WORLD, PULP FICTION and THE BIG CHILL, and we chatted briefly about the tone of the film. He recognizes there is a fine line they are walking, but is convinced that by focusing on the American people pulling together and selflessly helping strangers as well as keeping true to the real people portrayed in film that the filmmakers will produce a film that will avoid disrespecting the event.

I heard more than once on my visit that 9/11 has been very politicized (by both sides) and that the aim of the film is to remind people how we reacted to the attack, before politics came into play... When, for at least a day, humanity pulled together.

Shamberg walked me over to the plank that led up to the platform where they were shooting. Oliver Stone was at the foot of the plank talking to one of his crew members. As we approached, Stone finished his conversation and Shamberg introduced us.

Another misconception I had about this film was turned on its head. I didn't expect Stone to be a jerk or anything, but I wasn't prepared for how warm and receiving he was. I had heard many stories of how difficult he was to deal with on a movie set, but there was no evidence of that here. The crew all seemed to love him.

We didn't talk much, but he did tell me to come up and watch a take or two on the crowded platform above.

When the buildings collapse, trapping our leads, the floor beneath their feet collapse as well. McLoughlin is trapped a full floor below Jimeno. Hence the reason for the platform.





Even though Cage wasn't shooting while I was there, they had Pena on his level and a fire burning somewhere below, illuminating (in part) the scene I saw shot. That explains the smokiness of the studio.

Hanging around the stage were 3 or 4 chunks of rubble on wires that Stone told me could be moved around depending on how claustrophobic he wants the scene to be or where the camera is positioned. It's like a breakaway wall on a sit-com and it just gives him tons of creative freedom in placing the camera and quickly being able to turn around. I thought that was pretty neat.

The scene was from late in the movie after the rescue teams find our two leads. Scott Strauss (played by Stephen Dorff) is crawling around Michael Pena's character, trying to help him get free of the giant concrete slab that's pinning him to the ground. Strauss himself was on set and Stone introduced us when we first arrived at the top of the platform.

He just repeated over and over how right they're doing this, that he as well as the real McLoughlin and Jimeno wouldn't be involved at all if they weren't sure that Stone and the producers were trying to politicize the event or in any way dishonor those who suffered in the attacks or the resulting aftermath.

I know that in most cases on films this controversial the idea is to downplay it to the press and public, but I have to tell you... from reading the script, meeting the people involved and seeing what I saw I tend to believe the party line this time around. The subject matter is, of course, going to hit on a still raw nerve for many Americans, but does that mean McLoughlin and Jimeno's stories and the stories of those who banded together to save their lives should never be told?

I watched the first take from on the platform. I couldn't really make out much that was going on with all the crew doing their jobs in between myself and the actors, but I tend to love that kind of stuff. Just sitting back and watching a monitor is great, but that scene from that angle will be in the film. I can watch that forever if I want, but I have one moment in time to get a completely different perspective by watching near the camera. One of my most cherished memories on my visit to the RETURN OF THE KING set was sitting as the tent opening when Elrond gave the reforged Narsil to Aragorn. In the film you have great coverage of the meeting, but I now also have a separate set of memories that see that scene played out from the side-lines, to Aragorn's side, looking almost straight on with Hugo Weaving.

I love that shit, so when I was asked if I wanted to go watch them get the first take on the monitor, I chose to stay and watch the take as I stood 3 feet from Stone, crouched at his monitors, and standing right next to the real life Scott Strauss as his film version tried chip away at the concrete.

The DP of the film is a man by the name of Seamus McGarvey, who shot THE HOURS and HIGH FIDELITY. He seemed like a real character and had the exact right accent a bloke by the name of Seamus should have. When Stone called action, Seamus was just off camera holding a small light on a pole and illuminating the scene as it unrolled. Considering they're trapped in an almost cave-like environment the lighting must be tricky... how to show them without having an unexplained godlight just illuminating everything.

There were grips also holding poles... at least 3 different people that used the hollow poles to drop stuff on the actors. One was filled with ash/grit, another had pebbles and bigger chunks of rock and the last had a pole that dripped water.

The take was at least 4 minutes long. When they cut, I left the crowded platform to give the crew a bit of room to maneuver. I made my way down to the video village below and took a seat to watch the next take.

The scene had 3 people in it: Jimeno (Pena), Strauss (Dorff) and Frank Whaley playing another rescuer. You guys know Whaley as Kevin Spacey's abused assistant from SWIMMING WITH SHARKS or "Check out the big brain on Brett!" from PULP FICTION. He's a long time Oliver Stone actor, from films like BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY, THE DOORS and JFK.

Pena is screaming in pain as Dorff is trying to use a small jaws of life device to chew through the concrete. Strauss creates some small talk to try to get Jimeno's focus off the pain of his shattered lower-half and they're interrupted by a voice from below. McLoughlin speaks up from below (I'm not sure if Cage was there or if it was prerecorded) and he sounds really out of it.

At this point the dialogue between Jimeno and Strauss is about trying to dig McLoughlin out first, since he's the one closer to death. They can't start going further down without clearing Jimeno out of the way first, so Jimeno tells them to take his legs. If they cut off his legs they can pull him free in minutes and then begin on freeing McLoughlin.

Do they? Well, you'll either have to wait or set your fingers a-typin' on google.

The second take was done with more close shots of Dorff and Pena, covered in concrete dust and bits of rubble as well as closer shots of the Jaws of Life at work on the rock.

I took off shortly after they cut from the second five minute-long take, heading back out through both Spruce Goose hangers and out into the sunshine and fresh air again.

I'm not completely sure how the film will come off, but I am convinced everybody involved is making this movie for the right reasons. At its most political it seems to simply just want to take back this tragedy from the politicians and give it back to the Americans who actually banded together (physically like in New York or emotionally like the rest of the country), to highlight our true strength in the shadow of our greatest fear.

I hope that movie is what shows up on the screen.

Below you'll find the poster that is about to hit theaters... I'm not sure what to think of it... I am sure that it'll spark more negative controversy than the poster should. But I do like the framing of the poster. You do get the feeling of the towers lumbering over the two small men... I don't know what I would have done differently, but I can already hear the enraged outcry by people who don't really have any idea what the movie is about because of the teaser one sheet.





I hope I was able to clarify the film for a lot of you or at least decently convey my experiences on the set. I also hope you guys enjoyed reading about my visit.

I'll be back with the bulk of my coverage of the Santa Barbara Film Festival later tonight and over the next couple of days. 'Til then, this is Quint bidding you all a fond farewell and adieu.

-Quint





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Reader Talkback

Oh
by jimmy_009
Feb 10th, 2006
08:44:18 PM
well...
by occula
Feb 10th, 2006
08:54:37 PM
another potential concern?
by Avenger534
Feb 10th, 2006
08:54:41 PM
Stone is to be paid in pot plants for this movie.
by Yoda's Ball Sack
Feb 10th, 2006
08:55:15 PM
Stone insisted he be paid in pot plants
by Yoda's Ball Sack
Feb 10th, 2006
08:57:40 PM
Sorry for double post.
by Yoda's Ball Sack
Feb 10th, 2006
09:00:35 PM
sounds good, not exploitative...
by mrgreentheplant
Feb 10th, 2006
09:11:44 PM
yeah that's what we need
by mikey mike
Feb 10th, 2006
09:15:12 PM
Brace yourself for the talkback shitstorm...
by Chief Redcock
Feb 10th, 2006
09:28:22 PM
It's interesting...
by Chief Redcock
Feb 10th, 2006
09:30:24 PM
After reading this and thinking about it
by Bean_
Feb 10th, 2006
09:32:42 PM
I like the poster...
by Tubbs Tattsyrup
Feb 10th, 2006
09:34:41 PM
Homewrecker,
by Bean_
Feb 10th, 2006
09:45:48 PM
I agree with Avenger534
by Undead Neverhood
Feb 10th, 2006
09:50:18 PM
Hoorah! Another Oliver Stone TB to fling spittle in!
by HogCholera
Feb 10th, 2006
10:25:56 PM
How ironic...
by Ribbons
Feb 10th, 2006
10:55:24 PM
Exploitation
by Orionsangels
Feb 10th, 2006
11:07:04 PM
they still let Stone make movies?
by Silver Shamrock
Feb 11th, 2006
12:28:37 AM
Stone needs a hit movie
by Undead Neverhood
Feb 11th, 2006
12:58:54 AM
honestly, I think America might need this movie...
by Kraken
Feb 11th, 2006
01:25:00 AM
Well...
by DocPazuzu
Feb 11th, 2006
02:26:22 AM
for the last word on this bollocks
by heywood jablomie
Feb 11th, 2006
02:33:10 AM
Great article. This movie might be something special.
by Spacesheik
Feb 11th, 2006
02:34:06 AM
BTW Am I the only person who thought NIXON rocked?
by Spacesheik
Feb 11th, 2006
02:36:54 AM
Nice try, DocPazuzu...
by Ribbons
Feb 11th, 2006
02:55:55 AM
Wide Berth I say, Wide Berth...
by seppukudkurosawa
Feb 11th, 2006
03:21:51 AM
Could be very good (and, yes, Nixon is a great pic)
by Dickie Greenleaf
Feb 11th, 2006
04:54:20 AM
For authenticity...
by BannedOnTheRun
Feb 11th, 2006
05:44:59 AM
at least the poster looks good:
by newc0253
Feb 11th, 2006
07:07:39 AM

by LeFlambeur
Feb 11th, 2006
09:10:38 AM
Stone's arguably the most courageous working filmmaker
by Buck Turgidson
Feb 11th, 2006
10:11:28 AM
This should be interesting.
by moleperson78
Feb 11th, 2006
10:25:57 AM
And for anyone to say "he sucks, see Alexander"...
by Buck Turgidson
Feb 11th, 2006
10:32:07 AM
Ribbons
by DocPazuzu
Feb 11th, 2006
10:38:14 AM
Anyone who needs an Ollie Stone movie...
by LilOgre
Feb 11th, 2006
10:39:57 AM
I'll Save Everyone Some Time Here
by Ill Clinton
Feb 11th, 2006
11:09:51 AM
Bleh
by Magic Rat
Feb 11th, 2006
11:10:37 AM
TNT Sucks...
by seppukudkurosawa
Feb 11th, 2006
11:17:58 AM
Wow Ill Clinton...
by JackRabbitSlim
Feb 11th, 2006
12:00:11 PM
Oliver Stone rules...
by blackstormy
Feb 11th, 2006
12:00:52 PM
The Truth?
by moleperson78
Feb 11th, 2006
12:33:08 PM
TNT868: May Bill Clinton mistake you for an Intern!
by Spacesheik
Feb 11th, 2006
12:35:55 PM
DocPazuzu
by Ribbons
Feb 11th, 2006
12:36:41 PM
Sounds like a remake of DAYLIGHT.
by FluffyUnbound
Feb 11th, 2006
12:43:27 PM
watch platoon or jfk again. he does sort of stink.
by all
Feb 11th, 2006
12:53:54 PM
So why does Ollie Stone suck?
by Yoda's Ball Sack
Feb 11th, 2006
01:29:52 PM
why
by butnugget
Feb 11th, 2006
02:00:45 PM
These Are the Baby Steps
by Jervis Tetch
Feb 11th, 2006
03:30:33 PM
Blackstormy - too bad DePalma directed SCARFACE eh?!
by LilOgre
Feb 11th, 2006
04:04:06 PM
My personal favourite Stone film is without a doubt...
by seppukudkurosawa
Feb 11th, 2006
04:17:13 PM
He's lost it
by Shropshire Slash
Feb 11th, 2006
04:21:36 PM
This shouldn't be called 'World Trade Center'
by performingmonkey
Feb 11th, 2006
05:18:34 PM
inappropriate patriotic urges
by cantankerous
Feb 11th, 2006
05:23:01 PM
re: performingmonkey.
by cantankerous
Feb 11th, 2006
05:35:28 PM
Not showing the towers
by Anakin Whoopass
Feb 11th, 2006
06:10:01 PM
Now that FINAL DESTINATION 3 used 9/11 imagery...
by LaudnerGomez
Feb 11th, 2006
06:43:34 PM
They saved Jimeno's legs.
by 3 Bag Enema
Feb 11th, 2006
06:47:31 PM
If it's not exploitation, then what the hell is it?
by scrumdiddly
Feb 11th, 2006
08:25:43 PM
Not to trivialize the event or anything...
by SK909
Feb 11th, 2006
08:59:41 PM
re: SK909
by performingmonkey
Feb 11th, 2006
10:09:26 PM
This is a Damn Shame
by chains
Feb 12th, 2006
12:28:08 AM
By the way,,,
by chains
Feb 12th, 2006
12:32:13 AM
The Set
by The_General
Feb 12th, 2006
03:05:10 AM
The whole world knows
by GingerTwit
Feb 12th, 2006
06:59:54 AM
TomBodet, you're stupid.
by chains
Feb 12th, 2006
07:33:11 AM
Conspiracy or not...
by seppukudkurosawa
Feb 12th, 2006
08:00:51 AM
wasteland - death by water
by GingerTwit
Feb 12th, 2006
08:25:03 AM
Come on, you have to admit that doc was anal as fuck
by seppukudkurosawa
Feb 12th, 2006
08:38:54 AM
And yeah I admit-
by seppukudkurosawa
Feb 12th, 2006
08:48:59 AM
Alexander was awesome
by c4andmore
Feb 12th, 2006
08:50:23 AM
Right ON!, SK909
by cantankerous
Feb 12th, 2006
09:14:42 AM
DAMN RIGHT, chains!
by cantankerous
Feb 12th, 2006
09:31:49 AM
No Towers
by Jabber_Jaw
Feb 12th, 2006
09:42:41 AM
Disaster films or Dramas
by Spacesheik
Feb 12th, 2006
11:11:36 AM
You're right, cantankerous...
by chains
Feb 12th, 2006
11:13:35 AM
cantankerous, what was it like when...
by Cod Profundity
Feb 12th, 2006
11:15:37 AM
To sum it up...
by chains
Feb 12th, 2006
11:24:00 AM
Yeah, Chains, that would pretty much be true.
by FluffyUnbound
Feb 12th, 2006
12:12:59 PM
But...
by tango fett
Feb 12th, 2006
12:30:30 PM
The real hero of this event
by Razorback
Feb 12th, 2006
12:32:23 PM
The movie is about...
by SalvatoreGravano
Feb 12th, 2006
12:58:20 PM
ALEXANDER didnt seem like an Oliver Stone film
by Spacesheik
Feb 12th, 2006
01:45:40 PM
ALEXANDER: more comments
by Spacesheik
Feb 12th, 2006
01:53:36 PM
Conspiracy theories are ALL pretty much bullshit
by Cameron1
Feb 12th, 2006
02:24:22 PM
Should be a powerful film
by watashiwadare
Feb 12th, 2006
02:40:52 PM
Exactly, SK909.
by Novaman5000
Feb 12th, 2006
02:49:59 PM
Paul Verhoeven fucking rules
by moleperson78
Feb 12th, 2006
02:52:10 PM
moleperson: SPEED 2 and THE HAUNTING
by Spacesheik
Feb 12th, 2006
03:12:13 PM
oh and dont forget SHOWGIRLS moleperson
by Spacesheik
Feb 12th, 2006
03:13:01 PM
Chill, Brother Cod!
by cantankerous
Feb 12th, 2006
03:37:57 PM
the super secret society???
by Cameron1
Feb 12th, 2006
04:28:24 PM
Spacesheik, imdb is your friend.
by I Dunno
Feb 12th, 2006
04:31:08 PM
Hey, Avenger534:
by hamo455
Feb 12th, 2006
04:31:39 PM
Semi-secret dude, SEMI-secret.
by cantankerous
Feb 12th, 2006
04:59:17 PM
yep you got me, semi secret.
by Cameron1
Feb 12th, 2006
05:12:54 PM
Okay, Shitheads...
by chains
Feb 12th, 2006
05:27:02 PM
Then lets fight government!
by Orionsangels
Feb 12th, 2006
05:49:12 PM
see, cantankerous, homewreckers post is the one
by Cameron1
Feb 12th, 2006
05:51:50 PM

by Cameron1
Feb 12th, 2006
07:17:56 PM
so I said that 9/11 wasn't specifically known about
by Cameron1
Feb 12th, 2006
07:19:24 PM
WOAH! Chains just called you guys shitheads!!!!!!
by J-Dizzle
Feb 12th, 2006
07:52:36 PM
Sometimes AICN really upsets me....
by bunkhousejb9
Feb 12th, 2006
07:53:57 PM
Speed 2-Verhoeven didn't make speed 2
by moleperson78
Feb 12th, 2006
08:23:29 PM
It shouldn't be called WTC.
by Jaka
Feb 12th, 2006
09:42:23 PM
On the contrary...
by chains
Feb 12th, 2006
10:36:42 PM
Too soon.
by DarthCorleone
Feb 13th, 2006
12:32:24 AM
No way anchorite! Martha Stewart....
by Jaka
Feb 13th, 2006
02:03:40 AM
yes yes jan de bont was SPEED 2 and HAUNTING
by Spacesheik
Feb 13th, 2006
02:54:22 AM
Wow. just ...wow
by GingerTwit
Feb 13th, 2006
07:02:34 AM
I detest the Bush government...
by DocPazuzu
Feb 13th, 2006
08:16:28 AM
Ditto
by moleperson78
Feb 13th, 2006
08:53:56 AM

by moleperson78
Feb 13th, 2006
08:57:55 AM
US hegemony is bad?
by cantankerous
Feb 13th, 2006
09:02:10 AM
what makes you conspiracy-junkies tick
by cantankerous
Feb 13th, 2006
09:39:13 AM
Here's a crazy thought
by Monkey Butler
Feb 13th, 2006
09:57:28 AM
"JFK one of the most powerful films of all time"???
by Mr Nice Gaius
Feb 13th, 2006
10:39:57 AM
It's a nice thought, Monkey Butler, but the US
by Big Jim
Feb 13th, 2006
11:15:53 AM
Will someone please shut down this DocPazuzu joker?
by HogCholera
Feb 13th, 2006
11:27:12 AM
I hate Cage
by Meremoth
Feb 13th, 2006
11:30:53 AM
JFK was good -
by Spacesheik
Feb 13th, 2006
11:40:29 AM
Whoever said anything about the US withdrawing...
by Cameron1
Feb 13th, 2006
11:54:24 AM
P.S. I'm one of the good guys
by HogCholera
Feb 13th, 2006
11:58:42 AM
WTC worker is suing Bush & pals
by Hobbes104
Feb 13th, 2006
12:06:45 PM
Uh, how else would the US relinquish its hegemony?
by cantankerous
Feb 13th, 2006
12:22:02 PM
HAAHAHAHAHA, maybe you should understand what...
by Cameron1
Feb 13th, 2006
12:27:52 PM
Gee, if the janitor says Cheney did it, I guess he did.
by FluffyUnbound
Feb 13th, 2006
12:32:38 PM
Viciousness on this site
by Hobbes104
Feb 13th, 2006
12:56:28 PM
What happened at the WTC?
by Pageiv
Feb 13th, 2006
01:03:15 PM
Cheney shot a man he was hunting with... "accidentally"
by Novaman5000
Feb 13th, 2006
01:28:10 PM
Google this: The Carlyle Group...
by Ninja Nerd
Feb 13th, 2006
01:40:13 PM
World leader, world controller,
by cantankerous
Feb 13th, 2006
02:03:03 PM
Yes, too soon.
by ejcarter9
Feb 13th, 2006
02:24:29 PM
Er a world leader IS NOT a world controller
by Cameron1
Feb 13th, 2006
02:25:13 PM
ARE THEY GONNA GET INTO IT?
by Bishop6
Feb 13th, 2006
02:35:29 PM

by cantankerous
Feb 13th, 2006
02:44:33 PM
President Bush:
by Lord Asriel
Feb 13th, 2006
03:15:22 PM
Bush said that the:
by Lord Asriel
Feb 13th, 2006
03:20:57 PM
Rice stated:
by Lord Asriel
Feb 13th, 2006
03:24:21 PM
Lord Asriel
by Mr Nice Gaius
Feb 13th, 2006
03:25:24 PM
Bush claimed:
by Lord Asriel
Feb 13th, 2006
03:26:15 PM
Well apparently Bush wasn't aware of that information
by Lord Asriel
Feb 13th, 2006
03:30:25 PM
Rice said:
by Lord Asriel
Feb 13th, 2006
03:36:23 PM
Bush said:
by Lord Asriel
Feb 13th, 2006
03:41:00 PM
I woul be very very happy...
by Lord Asriel
Feb 13th, 2006
03:43:26 PM
La La Land.
by cantankerous
Feb 13th, 2006
03:47:19 PM
Um, not really.
by Cameron1
Feb 13th, 2006
03:54:07 PM
"specific explanations for those incongruities."
by Mr Nice Gaius
Feb 13th, 2006
03:57:23 PM
yes cantankerous, "indisputable" is a tall order
by Hobbes104
Feb 13th, 2006
04:00:42 PM
yes cantankerous, "indisputable" is a tall order
by Hobbes104
Feb 13th, 2006
04:01:44 PM
Unfortunately we
by cantankerous
Feb 13th, 2006
05:27:52 PM
re: I woul be very very happy...
by cantankerous
Feb 13th, 2006
05:42:49 PM
"I think the US has every
by Cameron1
Feb 13th, 2006
05:43:31 PM
don't you see how silly you are being...
by Cameron1
Feb 13th, 2006
05:52:16 PM
re: I
by Lord Asriel
Feb 13th, 2006
05:56:03 PM
The Religion of PEACE
by Kamala
Feb 13th, 2006
09:10:29 PM
Propaganda: noun...
by Monkey Butler
Feb 14th, 2006
07:50:47 AM
Monkey Butler=No Very Smart
by Kamala
Feb 14th, 2006
08:08:12 AM
Who
by cantankerous
Feb 14th, 2006
08:11:58 AM
re: Lord Asriel
by cantankerous
Feb 14th, 2006
08:13:07 AM
cankerous
by Cameron1
Feb 14th, 2006
11:33:08 AM
You are hopelessly entangled in semantics again.
by cantankerous
Feb 14th, 2006
12:35:59 PM
The US doesn't have total global control.
by Cameron1
Feb 14th, 2006
12:57:31 PM
Oh and I'd love to quit with the semantics...
by Cameron1
Feb 14th, 2006
01:13:35 PM
re:"Incompetence is a rather strong word....
by Lord Asriel
Feb 14th, 2006
01:16:41 PM
Hhmmmmm
by dirty old len
Feb 14th, 2006
01:30:51 PM
Noooo,
by cantankerous
Feb 14th, 2006
01:58:37 PM
LOL, that was fantastic.
by Cameron1
Feb 14th, 2006
02:04:00 PM
this whole argument...
by Cameron1
Feb 14th, 2006
02:54:54 PM
Congratulations
by cantankerous
Feb 14th, 2006
03:41:12 PM
This should be a good one
by cantankerous
Feb 14th, 2006
03:52:28 PM
you confused yourself with your need to simplify.
by Cameron1
Feb 14th, 2006
03:53:16 PM
If you thought the MOVIIE discussion on hre was tedious
by 1908LOL
Feb 14th, 2006
04:57:14 PM
Ah simplify.
by cantankerous
Feb 14th, 2006
06:37:43 PM
I'm sorry you think it's complicated.
by Cameron1
Feb 14th, 2006
06:55:01 PM
I'm sorry you think it's complicated
by Cameron1
Feb 14th, 2006
07:01:45 PM
oh noes!! a typo
by Cameron1
Feb 14th, 2006
07:04:09 PM
who lets ollie stone do this movie?
by ZO
Feb 14th, 2006
10:48:05 PM
Oh, reading your stuff is enlightenment enough!
by cantankerous
Feb 15th, 2006
08:36:18 AM
yes, but you are an idiot cankerous
by Cameron1
Feb 15th, 2006
09:26:37 AM
realist = idiocy
by cantankerous
Feb 15th, 2006
11:43:16 AM
So you are talking about ONE question you asked.
by Cameron1
Feb 15th, 2006
12:10:14 PM

by cantankerous
Feb 15th, 2006
12:57:58 PM
oh so it's the last word you wanted.
by Cameron1
Feb 15th, 2006
01:41:36 PM
Quite entertaining talkback...
by DoctorWho?
Feb 16th, 2006
02:05:23 AM
Wow...
by NubtheSquirrel
Feb 16th, 2006
09:12:10 AM
The problem, Cantankerous, is that Bush's policies
by FluffyUnbound
Feb 16th, 2006
12:05:34 PM
Nicolas Cage? Oliver Stone?
by Nadine_Cross
Feb 16th, 2006
03:25:40 PM
Does this blog have the truth about 9/11?
by darthflagg
Feb 16th, 2006
09:16:51 PM
Yawn, ok I
by cantankerous
Feb 17th, 2006
09:47:58 AM
I'd recommend the 2nd edition version of 'Loose Change&#
by Johnno
Feb 20th, 2006
01:19:37 PM
Cantankerous, that's a good point.
by FluffyUnbound
Feb 20th, 2006
02:01:51 PM
It
by cantankerous
Feb 21st, 2006
09:28:02 AM
cantankerous, the problem is...
by Lord Asriel
Feb 22nd, 2006
04:15:30 AM
I assume you have heard of Francis Fukuyama, cntks?
by Cameron1
Feb 22nd, 2006
06:16:36 AM
Yes, I have read some of Fukuyama
by cantankerous
Feb 22nd, 2006
12:34:13 PM
....
by Cameron1
Feb 22nd, 2006
02:24:37 PM
Fukuyama was premature ...
by cantankerous
Feb 23rd, 2006
09:36:54 AM
It's Brad, not Brett
by slicer
Feb 28th, 2006
12:20:09 AM

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