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Capone grabs his FAMILY STONEs while heading to BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN with a GEISHA and THE PRODUCERS!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with Capone who has a wrap up on a handful of holiday film fare. I haven't seen one of these movies yet. Damn, I'm so behind... Seeing PRODUCERS next week, though. So I'm at least on the road to getting caught up... Here's Chicago's own son, Capone!
Hey, everyone. Capone in Chicago, finding it increasingly more difficult to
make time for writing about the tidal wave of end-of-year award contenders.
I've pretty much seen everything that's eligible for consideration, and
figure the best way to handle the volume is to just review them in the order
that they're being released in the major markets. Hopefully this weekend,
I'll wrap up my reviews of Munich, Match Point, White Countess, Rumor Has
It, Casanova, and a few others. For now, here are a bunch of films daring to
take on Kong this weekend.
Brokeback Mountain
Every fan of “South Park” has already made the prophetic connection. Years
ago, in an episode featuring Robert Redford attempting to bring a
Sundance-like film festival to the Colorado town, Cartman criticized the
move by saying that all independent films were about gay cowboys eating
pudding. The boy is a soothsayer. Hopefully by now, we’ve all gotten the
pudding jokes out of our collective systems, and are ready to accept
Brokeback Mountain for what it really is: the finest and most deeply moving
love story of the year, featuring some of the finest performances of 2005.
What surprised me most about Brokeback Mountain is what it doesn’t try to
do. The film spans from the 1950s into the early 1970s, a period when being
gay was a death sentence in some areas. Smartly, the threat of these two men
getting caught and exposed to the world is minimal. And while there are
confrontations from outside parties at even a hint of “inappropriate”
behavior, there are far bigger concerns and obstacles in their lives than
getting caught.
Jack Twist (Jake Gyllenhaal, capping off his best year yet as an actor, with
such films as Proof and Jarhead) and Ennis Del Mar (Heath Ledger) meet as
strangers but are thrown into a work situation in Wyoming guarding a sheep
heard for Joe Aguirre (Randy Quaid). Neither man is a particularly good
communicator, but as the weeks turn into months and the weather gets cold,
the men become friends. Though both make it clear just before their first
sexual encounter that they are not “queer,” the two clearly feel something
for each other. Ledger and Gyllenhaal do a remarkable job of portraying two
young, innocent who have no understanding of their feelings for each other.
When the time comes for them to go back to their respective lives in Texas
(Ennis) and Montana (Jack), there’s actually a deep sadness. This is only
the first third of the movie.
The rest of the film follows both men’s lives, as they get married, have
children, and try to forget their time together. Jack, now married to rodeo
queen Lureen (Anne Hathaway), is the first to go visit his old friend many
years later. Ennis is now married to devoted housewife Alma (Michelle
Williams). What’s interesting about their relationship with their wives is
that these men are clearly very happy being married. And the film makes a
strong case that Jack and Ennis are not gay, but their bond is so strong,
they need to be together. Toward the end of the film, this case breaks down
as their marriages suffer.
The final third of the film is the heartbreaker. Jack dreams of a time when
the men can live on a ranch together, but Ennis reminds him that the times
would make that impossible. The frustration they feel at only being able to
see each other once or twice a year for a week at a time in literally
killing them. You want nothing more than for these two to live a quiet,
loving life together but inside you know that’s no going to happen.
Director Ang Lee (The Ice Storm; Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon) so
perfectly captures the time, the place, and the devastating emotion of
Brokeback Mountain (based on a screenplay co-written by Larry McMurtry and
Diana Ossana, from a short story by Annie Proulx). And anyone that can’t get
passed the gay themes of the film needs to get over themselves in a hurry.
These performances and this film are just too good to pass up. While
Gyllenhaal provides the emotional heart of the film, Ledger’s performance as
the mumbling Ennis is Oscar worthy. I also liked the final-hour performance
by Linda Cardellini as Ennis’ first girlfriend after he breaks up with his
wife. Brokeback Mountain is one of the best films of the year and also one
of the saddest. Crying is not optional when watching this movie, so be
prepared. This is a movie about connecting with that one person in your life
who will ever understand you, and it’s about love. The time for the end to
the pudding jokes is today.
The Producers
This film is a no-brainer. I saw the original musical of The Producers when
it premiered in Chicago before its record-breaking Broadway run. Most of the
cast I saw here is featured this film, with two notable exceptions (Uma
Thurman in her first dumb-blonde role, and Will Farrell as the Nazi-loving
German playwright of the sure-fire bomb “Springtime for Hitler.”). If you
saw the musical with this cast either in Chicago or New York, the film is an
lovingly faithful version of that experience that is as good as seeing it on
the stage. If you didn’t see the show, this is your chance to do so. Take
advantage of the opportunity.
Yes, Nathan Lane and Matthew Broderick are still playing to the balconies
(especially Lane), but that just makes it funnier. And make sure to stay
through the credits for two reasons: a great new song written by Mel Brooks
for the movie (presumably to have something in this film that would qualify
for a Best Original Song Oscar) and a funny little closing message from
Brooks himself. People will write on and on about how The Producers started
as a great film, became a smash Broadway show, and is now returning to movie
screens. That makes for great copy, but the bottom line is, if you like to
laugh, this film is your best bet this holiday season.
Memoirs of a Geisha
The most beautiful film I’ve seen all year is also one of the most boring
and soulless creations of the year. Despite the bleak nature of the material
(based on the best-selling book by Arthur Golden), director Rob Marshall
(Chicago) has chosen to present this material as something resembling the
glam-rock version of this tale of a young Japanese girl sold by her family
into servitude.
As the servant of Tokyo’s most famous geisha Hatsumomo (Gong Li), a young
Sayuri meets a man known as Chairman (The Last Samurai’s Ken Watanabe).
Something about their encounter sparks a desire in her to become a geisha,
and she is trained by one of the best, Mameha (Michelle Yeoh). Ziyi Zhang
plays the grown Sayuri, and you may already see the problem with Memoirs of
a Geisha just in the casting. The three female leads are all Chinese. The
male leads (who also include the legendary Koji Yakusho) are Japanese.
Everyone speaks English. I know I shouldn’t have a problem with nationality
of the actors, but the film sacrifices some of its authenticity by not
casting Japanese actors and not allowing them to speaking Japanese. I
realize that by casting China’s three most famous actresses, (and three of
the most beautiful women in the world), the box office will be much better
(and sticking to English won’t hurt either), but it feels disingenuous.
If these were the only criticisms I had of Memoirs, I’d still find it
possible to like this film, but Marshall’s glossy approach to some truly
horrendous events is appalling. And despite the fact that geisha are skilled
performers and not prostitutes, it still feels creepy when a pre-teen Sayuri
has her first encounter with the Chairman. He’s clearly flirting with her
and vice versa. In the film’s final act, the war with America changes
everything, and the film looses what little power it had in the beginning.
I have a strange feeling that entertainment reporters are going to focus a
lot of attention on the exquisite fashions featured in Geisha, and
rightfully so. I’ll cast my vote right now for best costumes of 2005. Some
of Marshall’s set pieces, especially the much-talked-about Ziyi Zhang’s snow
dance, are exceptional and will take your breath away. But the film is dull,
and Marshall’s decision to skim over the truly awful parts of Sayrui’s life
made me lose interest in her story early on. With such a formidable cast, I
was genuinely looking forward to Memoirs of a Geisha. There are elements
here to love, but overall, the film is a letdown.
The Family Stone
Duped by a lame trailer into thinking this movie was free-spirited,
air-headed holiday fluff, imagine my surprise when The Family Stone actually
delivered a few actual emotion punches. Led by mother Sybil (Diane Keaton)
and father Kelly (Craig T. Nelson), the Stone clan is a large, close-knit
group of extremely liberal-minded folks. We know this because one of the
sons, Thad (Tyrone Giordano) is deaf, gay, and involved with a black man
(Brian White), and the family is so cool with that.
When eldest son Everett (Dermot Mulroney) dares to bring in his new
girlfriend Meredith (Sarah Jessica Parker) home for the holidays, this
normally sweet group unsheathes its claws and begins picking her apart,
sometimes to her face. Granted, Meredith is uptight and sometimes
thoughtless, but the family really does a number on her. Chief among the
evildoers is sister Amy (Rachel McAdams), whose hypercritical teeth are very
sharp. Also on hand is older sister Susannah (Elizabeth Reaser) and stoner
middle brother Ben (Luke Wilson, who seems to be doing an impersonation of
his brother Owen).
The Family Stone has plenty of genuine laughs. The Stones speak their mind
about each other as well as outsiders, and it seems no topic is verboten.
When Meredith has had all she can take, she calls in reinforcements in the
form of her far more laid-back sister Julie (Claire Danes). Once Julie and
an old boyfriend of Amy’s (a paramedic played by Elizabethtown’s Paul
Schneider) arrive on the scene, all of the pieces for the grand manipulation
of our emotions are in place. But sometimes having your heartstrings tugged
is alright, and it didn’t seem terribly forced here. (Although a few prat
falls late in the film almost tank the entire film.)
For every thing I disliked about Family Stone, there were two or three
things that saved it. Relative newcomer writer-director Thomas Bezucha has
done a fairly great job pulling together this large ensemble without making
things seem too crowded. Parker’s character is so difficult to like that you
wonder why Everett ever liked her, not that Everett is all that spectacular
in the personality department either. But things more than balance out
thanks to some standout performances by Nelson, Keaton, Wilson, and McAdams.
Even Parker gets a shot at redeeming her character in a sequence in which
she and Wilson go to a local bar and get hammered. Considering the pure
holiday shite we’ve been getting for the past couple of years (Christmas
with the Kranks, Surviving Christmas), Family Stone is a wonderfully
surprising effort. The film surprises us with a few very uncomfortable and
downright depressing moments, but those moments save it from being trite and
cliché. The Family Stone is a tasty holiday cookie.
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So... it's about two guys being selfish fagtron dickwads who destroy their families? Yeah, sounds great. Still not seeing it.
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Dec 16, 2005 11:21:41 PM CST
i may see brokeback mountain, and probably enjoy it, but that
by holodigm
i mean, come on...it's gay cowboys eating pudding. and i think it's hilarious that matt and trey have said that if they eat pudding they are definitely going to sue.
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The jokes stop now, NOW! I don't know what these strapping cowpokes are whining about. They get to see each other a week or two every year? So what's the problem? I get to see my soul mate 1/2 hour a month, tops. And that's through a high powered lens. You need time to heal up anyway. Saddle oil makes poor lube. As for Geisha, I'm glad this isn't being hailed as some masterpiece so I don't have to see too much of it in clips. I get enough shrieking Asian women at the China Panda. And they have that back room where I know there are a dozen guys back there training. I grab my egg foo young and get the hell out of there.
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"elfish fagtron dickwads who destroy their families"? give me a break
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...Even after taking out the spoiler. Usually I let his idiosyncrasies go and it is his site, but the longer he lets this one go the worse it will get. No-one's going to forget this time. Suck it up, be a man and admit your mistake. Not just withdraw the offending stuff quietly without comment like a coward. ____________Yes I know this is Capone's thread. It is a brokeback talkback though, and maybe Quint or Capone will talk some sense to him. It may not have been so big to start with, but it's snowballing. Besides which, at least I'm not being an infantile 'phobe or racist prick (doesn't take long for them to wear their character flaws on their sleeves now, does it?). Shrieking Asian women eh? The rest might have been a joke but that was pathetic. Obviously you've never been around a bunch of Californian teenagers.______________Not much for musicals as a rule myself, but Producers looks cool.
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Dec 17, 2005 3:28:03 AM CST
if you like to laugh, this film is your best bet this holiday se
by angrykirby.tk
are you a robot?
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Sorry about the spoiling on BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN - I'm familiar with the original short story - and when I began discussing the project right at the beginning, it's always been discussed as a romantic tragedy. For my sake - I never identified which of the two actors it was or how. Quite frankly - the film isn't about a twist, it's about the relationship, the inner turmoil and the emotions between these two.
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Dec 17, 2005 4:24:16 AM CST
This constant promotion of Brokeback Mountain is getting ridicul
by vikingkitty
How much money is this movie going to make at the box office, outside of the homo-heavy cities? About $3.50? I'm sick of hearing about it, and the way the mainstream media and hollywood have joined up to force the gay agenda upon us is a farce.
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I never woulda thunk it.
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Only a guy who craves cock but is ashamed of his secret urges could have come up with that line.
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It's the proper thing to do. Geeks are crazy about their unseen films. Even when it comes to films like this. I remember the joy of seeing SPOILER-signs on your headlines, the first time I came to this site in the last millennium. It was like coming into a society that finally understood. Heh. And yeah, I know it's difficult to avoid spoilers for ALL films, but I guess this one was in a really bad spot - everyone was going to read that KONG review. So, anyway, I also want to say that you are totally right... this is not a film that is ruined by a spoiler, it is much more emotional than that. But it's emotionality is also what makes the end so hard to take. A devestating film, with a beautiful story so well told that it sticks like glue. I'm really looking forward to your V for Vendetta review, Harry. If it is coming.
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Chinese MSG boards are full of death threats to the Chinese actresses for playing "filthy Japanese", which shows how many issues still remain unresolved all those years after World War II. And somehow I doubt that Japanese viewers will take kindly to this kind of idiotic casting. Sure, Hollywood doesn't have dozens of ethnic Japanese superstar actresses but instead of banking on star power they should have cast unknowns and had faith in the material and the story. I wonder what Spielberg would have done ...
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I realise it's a double-edged dilemma, the whole thing of spoilers on a site predicated upon weeding out info ASAP for fans and yourself. Endings though are sacred. The main problem was that we didn't have the chance to avoid it. I admit I'm surprised and pleased you fronted up on it, as I thought you'd passed the point of no return when you edited your post without comment - hence my harsh words._____________________ I don't have much patience or any kind words for all those in the talkback that decided that once you'd let it rip the floodgates were open and they DID reveal which of the two it was. As for the ending being inevitable, sometimes I'm sure you like to stop second-guessing a plot (if it's good enough) and just get involved with the flow, letting the resolution hit you in the right way. If it's about the relationship then it's a shame to steal the emotional thunder of the conclusion. BTW I thought it was better to post in this thread rather than your own as once trolls like Ringbearer get involved it's all over barr the shouting.
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Man, I remember when the Holidays brought all sorts of great movies into theaters, what happened? I am not psyched for anything coming out cause it all looks like shit. Brokeback Mountain? Might be good, but Gyllenhaal and Hathaway and Michelle Williams are all awful actors so fuck that. The Producers? What do I look like? Some middle aged fucking Midwest tourist out on the town in NYC? Fuck outta here with that middle aged crap. Family Stone? Who on Earth goes to the theater to pay for a Lifetime movie? And Geisha....seriously, who gives a fuck about that movie.
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Dec 17, 2005 9:22:20 AM CST
vikingkitty, your "mainstream media and hollywood have joined up
by drakeavenue
Get over the themes from the film, and quit passing it off as if it is a reflection on an "agenda." Why is it that if there's someone or something that goes against your ideology or tolerance, they must always have an "agenda?" Insecure, are you?
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Help! I need to learn how not to catch teh gay!
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Cal-You like BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN
David- You're gay for saying that.
Cal- I'm gay for saying that?
David- You know how I know you're gay?
Cal- How? How do you know I'm gay?
David- Because you macramed yourself a pair of jean shorts.
Cal- You know how I know you're gay? You just told me you're not sleeping with women any more.
David- You know how I know that you're gay?
Cal- How? Cuz you're gay? and you can tell who other gay people are.
David- You know how I know you're gay?
Cal- How?
David- You like Coldplay.
David- You know how I know that you're gay?
Cal- How?
David- You like the movie Maid in Manhattan.
Cal- You know how I know you're gay?
David- How?
Cal- I saw you make a spinach dip in a loaf of sour dough bread once.
David- You know how I know that you're gay?
Cal- How?
David- You have a rainbow bumpersticker on your car that says, I love it when balls are in my face.
Cal- That's gay?
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Sorry to diverge from the various agendas on the discussion of the gay cowboy flick, but...
Uh, in your review are you insinuating that it would be impossible to find three beautiful Japanese actresses to play the roles, that's assanine! Yes, they're good-looking and somewhat popular, so what. The true spirit of the film is compromised by this moronic casting decision. It should be filmed in Japanese and subtitled in English. Sure, if they were making the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, go ahead and use Chinese actresses. I have nothing against Chinese actresses. Why dig up this unnecessary contraversy, it's idiotic. Are they trying to pander to Chinese market in some half-brained way. Are they afraid that the US market won't buy a ticket to film starring people they don't recognize? Is that stupid hurdle in the brains of Hollywood morons. Lord help me here, you people wonder why ticket sales are going down the crapper. Pull your heads out of your collective asses and smell the roses and not what you've been smelling. I'm not trashing the review, its fine. This idiocy just touched a raw nerve in my view of Hollywood stupidity. -
Dec 17, 2005 10:20:24 AM CST
Well, the sad truth is that's probably exactly what they wer
by citizen arcane
Do you really think that Ziyi Zhang and the Bond chick were the best people for the role? No, but they're the most recognizable asian women with US markets. Considering how xenophobic and downright rascist the Japanese are towards other asians (don't start, I work there occasionally, I know), they must be pleased as punch about the casting.
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If liberals like gay people su much why is calling someone "gay" their biggest insult?
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Dec 17, 2005 10:44:08 AM CST
Well, we've had the "black" Oscars, with Halle and Denzel wi
by scrumdiddly
What else? There were probably other "themed" nights at the Oscars, and I'm sure 2006 will be the "gay" oscars. Oh, I remember, this year had the "lots of films that don't deserve to win anything" Oscars.
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Dec 17, 2005 10:51:03 AM CST
The Family Stone looks so damn awful I rather see the movie abou
by big bad clone
Anyone have enough hetero cred to see Brokeback by themself?
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Dec 17, 2005 11:33:41 AM CST
Note: Gay Cowboy Movies are about Pudding.. I'll stay away f
by hate_speech
I'd much rather watch a film about gay sheep who become cowboys and eat pudding, that's more my speed... Gay cowboys? Geesh..
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she broke the door down for all half-white gorgeous women in Hollywood. she took a courageous turn in Monster's Ball and followed it with a more courageous decision: Catwoman. she's a pioneer. Charlize quickly follwed suit, so you see how influential Halle is?
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I have no problems with homsexuality or with stories concerning it, I've watched a couple in the past with my girlfriends. But while I don't have an issue with it I'm just not comfortable with seeing two guys tear into each other with that kind of passion. That and I'm not interested in movies concerning cowboys or sheep herders or ranch hands or whatever the fuck they are. I'm not a homophobe, but that doesnt mean I want to see that. So I'm conflicted cause I support the movie with my voice and intent, but not with my dollars.
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Jesus Christ am I crazy about these two women. What are the odds that they are fans of sodomy?
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I appreciate the honesty of Violet Grey above. Even those who are tolerant, accepting, or supportive of homosexuality may still feel a bit squeamish watching it. The good news is that Brokeback isn't very racy. The one sex scene is shot in such low light, in a pretty tight close up, and over very quickly. You don't even see any skin. There's a brief kissing scene that might make some uncomfortable, but it's not like deep-tonguing or anything. What's surprising is how tender some of the scenes are, and sadly it's something you don't see too often in film, even with heterosexual couples. The film wasn't quite the masterpiece I was expecting, but it's executed on such a high level by everyone involved it's a worthy award winner. There are no glaring flaws or pandering that mar most films that get big awards acclaim. I have to second the mentioning of Linda Cardellini, who does so much with a small role. And despite the fact that Michelle Williams is getting all the press, I found Anne Hathaway's character to have a much more interesting arc, if not the more emotional one. Ultimately, the film rests on Ledger's shoulders, and it really is the best male performance I've seen this year. It's difficult to do such great minimalistic work, and the pain you can barely recognize on his face is just heartbreaking. Hopefully the audience will put aside their preconceptions about the actor, as well as the story itself, and give it a fair shake (no pun intended).
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Dec 17, 2005 2:52:57 PM CST
"the film sacrifices some of its authenticity by not casting Jap
by newc0253
i call bullshit on this statement. do we care that shakespeare, dickens or austen are only performed by ethnic english actors? no. fuck this retarded attitude to casting.
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Yeah, I think it's something offensive like accepting homosexuals as human beings. How dare they shove that down our throats (figuratively)? Isn't it enough that we grudgingly accept women, minorities and the handicapped? Fucking liberals.
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Dec 17, 2005 3:59:13 PM CST
Geishas are Japanese women. I don't want to watch Othello w
by hypeendshere
But I'm funny that way.
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Don't be a tool. Did you show the same concern last year when Hollywood was flipping out over The Passion? Didn't think so. OH NOES! A RELIGIOUS FILM! THEY'RE TRYING TO FORCE IT ON US! Tolerance my ass (pun intended).
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Dec 17, 2005 7:33:38 PM CST
Panterarocks, you're very proud of not wanting to bang a dud
by citizen arcane
It sounds like that revelation is a result of years of conditioning and counter-programming. I guess I'm lucky that it came naturally for me and I didn't have to work at not wanting the man love. Well, keep up the good work I guess.
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Sometimes there does need to be a little forethought when you cast for a character, especially if you are doing a period piece. Yes, a troupe of Pakistanis could pull off a nice Taming of the Shrew, that's not the point. The point of my original post was that the producers of Memories of a Geisha went in with the attitude that all Asians look the same to the average idiot so who the fuck cares. Yes, there is a difference between a Japanese woman and a Chinese woman. Both can be equally hot, but there is a difference. I hate the idea that some pinhead in Hollywood is underestimating my desire to see an uncompromised movie. Its insulting. They totally fumbled what could have been a damn good movie.
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Dec 17, 2005 9:23:15 PM CST
THERE ARE PHOTOS OF THE SANDMAN AT IMDB. I'VE BEEN GONE FOR
by loodabagel
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It's been around for a couple months at least.
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Dec 18, 2005 7:27:01 AM CST
The fact Panterarocks is proud to be straight means either he
by cameron1
See to be proud of something means to feel pride in something you have achieved something difficult that took much effort. Either he doesn't understand what pride mean (hence the "thick as pigshit" remark). Or he had to struggle against his naturally homosexual state. Which is it pantierocks?
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Once opinions become synonymous with phobias.
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Dec 18, 2005 8:43:03 AM CST
Except of course the opinion of not liking a gay person or disag
by cameron1
And no, you can only be proud of something you have achieved or created.
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Dec 18, 2005 8:46:52 AM CST
Oh and that religious belief is based on fear originally anyway.
by cameron1
In fact I've never ever heard read or seen anyone making a case against gay people that didn't boil down to fear. You just can't do it. So phobia is pretty accurate.
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Dec 18, 2005 10:06:30 AM CST
Sarah Jessica Parker played one of the horses in Brokeback Mount
by citizen arcane
Busy year.
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Dec 18, 2005 10:38:48 AM CST
So let me get this straight....The 2 twenty-something, rough and
by doom ii
Noooooooooooo! I love movies about sheep herders so much! I was hoping there would be a hard-core,violent and very serious sheep herder film someday, but they make them lovers? Oh man! I guess I will have to wait another 36 years for a good sheep herder film...or make my own!
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Dec 18, 2005 10:43:22 AM CST
Sarah Jessica Parker played one of the horses in Brokeback Mount
by doom ii
Hey, when you're right you're right Citizen Arcane! I have a horse fetish, so I married Sarah!
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Here we go. I not going to say homosexuality is a sin. If it's a choice that would make it a sin. You say you
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that was disturbingly ignorant.
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Is it a birth defect to enjoy them? Is it less a defect to enjoy a blow job from a woman than a man? I admit that I don't have any actual experience in the same-sex blow job area, so maybe you should try a blindfold test and get back to us. Or are you saying, Superzario, that you are against blow jobs???
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If people are not suposed to be gay and them a small number are. How is it not a birth defect? Homosexuality is a chemical imbalance. the following is from dictionary.com. if you look up birth defect this is what you get:A physiological or structural abnormality that develops at or before birth and is present at the time of birth, especially as a result of faulty development, infection, heredity, or injury. Also called congenital anomaly. I would say homosexuality is a physiological abnormality. how can you not?
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(Sorry moviemack, it's too much fun) "Supposed to be" according to who or what? If it's a birth defect, then you're saying that God made them that way. So what, He's suddenly fallible? You want to "fix" His "mistakes"? Isn't evolution a series of birth defects? First you're against blow jobs, and now mutants. You're not going to find many allies in these talkbacks with those arguments.
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People are not supposed to be gay according to Mother Nature. Like I said, man parts plus lady parts equal babies. I said nothing about God so let's leave him out of this. I never said anything about blow jobs either. I like how a liberal
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Dec 18, 2005 12:59:34 PM CST
Well I should apologise, it's either fear or utter stupidity
by cameron1
See, if it is indeed a birth defect (there is no proof at all that it is by the way) then what's detrimental about it? Their happy so whats the big deal? I see you mention psycho's and retards but you fucked up with those two I'm afraid. Being a psycho harms other people (oh and by the way it isn't treatable) and the retarded person starts off at a massive disadvantage. Fix those by all means but homosexuality doesn't harm the person or anyone else. There is no problem with it
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Equating homosexuality to being psychotic or retardation is somehow flattering? "According to Mother Nature"? Who the hell is that? If, as you say, homosexuality is a birth defect, then there's no "danger" of others being "converted." So then Brokeback Mountain (or "Brokenback") is no more harmful than My Left Foot. Doesn't the movie do as you want?: it helps homosexuals adjust in society by making others accept them as human beings. If two consenting adults, in whatever combination of male and female you like, want to enjoy anal sex in the privacy of their own home, so what? Go see Narnia or King Kong and allow those of us interested in movies about real world issues to see what others have to say.
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Most mammals only mate when the female is in heat, which is rarely, and only for a relatively short time. Most of the year, most mammals don't have much interest in sex. This works for procreation. But humans have strong sex drives pretty much all the time - certainly much more than is necessary just to produce babies. Clearly, sex has purposes beyond mere procreation. For example, sex develops intimacy in relationships, strengthening emotional bonds between people. Healthy sex makes people happier. That's a good enough reason to have it.
Also, it's a mistake to refer to something as a "birth defect" just because it's rare. Red hair is a birth defect by that argument. Before something can be called a defect, it has to have some detrimental effect on the health of the person. Being gay doesn't shorten people's lives - it doesn't cause their hearts to fail or their kidneys to give out while they're still young. Being gay is not a defect.
Also, being gay does not prevent a person from procreating. Many gay people have children.
Sorry, Superzario, but your arguments aren't convincing. -
King Kong fucks Heath Ledger in two. sorry. i don't know where that came from.
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Check out the following definitions. http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/birth%20defect http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=birth%20defect http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/birth+defect No where does it say that a birth defect is harmful to anyone. And nowhere did I say everything rare is a birth defect. Look, you can rationalize all you want. People are not supposed to be gay. You all know this as fact. Some of you just don
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i mean, how many times have we all taken our children to the supermarket only to have men fucking each other on top of the bread? too many times to count. I mean, i don't want to explain that to my kid. actually, i don't want to explain a lot of things to my kid. why should I? why don't gay people stop forcing children to deal with their sexuality? think of the children! grown men that put their weiners into other grown men behind closed doors are pedophiles! homosexuality is a birth defect. just like being left handed. those people are weird too. always smudging their print. people aren't supposed to write with their left hands! i call them "wrong-handed". and what hand they use to write with is my business because the children are watching. i don't want them to push their left-handed agenda. i don't have to tell you what happens when people start accepting lefties...
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I do remember hearing a study that said most Gay people were left handed.
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Dec 18, 2005 2:26:32 PM CST
Oh boo hoo, you don't want to have to explain things to your
by cameron1
Take some fucking responsibility. I mean what are you so worried about? What exactly are gays "taking public"? If your kid asked why a man and a woman were kissing what would you tell them? Something like "cus they love each other" you wouldn't go into details of sexuality would you. What's so different about saying it for 2 men or 2 women? Oh hang on you've started saying it's a fact that being gay is wrong. Well if it's a fact WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? The actual conclusive proof that being gay is wrong? Where is it? Please post it zario.
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Well, there's no "evidence" from a religous standpoint, if that's what you're asking. There is the fact of incredibly high STD rates, high rates of pedophilia, etc. I'd also argue most homosexuals are mentally unbalanced to some degree. Not all, but most.
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Dec 18, 2005 2:45:18 PM CST
oh kitty, high STD rates among gay people does not mean being ga
by cameron1
High rates of pedophilia is just bullshit. And then "i'd argue" is not evidence. So why did you bother posting opinion and redundant arguments?
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Dec 18, 2005 2:48:02 PM CST
assuming that "There is the fact of incredibly high STD rates, h
by hypeendshere
Drinking is wrong for the very same reasons, if not more. i love the ability to type 'there is the fact' before an opinion and therefore make it an ironclad argument. it's neat!
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I guess STD's for everyone is a good idea. The pedophilia is a fact, regardless of how often the public is assured it isn't. The brainwashed fools like to say, "There are more straight pedophiles than gay!" Maybe so, if you look at straight numbers. Now compare those numbers to representation in the population. If two to five percent of the population is gay, and about 25% of all pedophile arrests are for gay acts . . . And Jesus, HypeEndsHere, your comment was even more inane.
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You know man and woman exist to get together and continue the species. I don't need proof you idiots. You are either fooling yourself or your an extreme pervert if you really beleive that humans have evolved to get it on with others regarless of gender. I'm out.
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have a special day.
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You kow perfectly well no one is suggesting STD's are a good idea. And if the paedophilia argument is a fact why isn't it published in reputable scientific journals? I'm a social worker and part of my job is to keep up with the latest research about people likely to harm children and I can tell you honestly no such statistics have proved anything. And a man abusing a pre teenage boy isn't a "gay" thing it's a personality disorder thing. That is a fact published in many journals._________ Zario, yes men and women need to fuck to continue the species, but they suck cock, eat pussy, fuck ass and do all manner of things completely unrelated to propigating the species, does that make them perverts? Human sexuality HAS evolved far beyond mere procreation, anyone with rudimentary knowledge of human biology and psychology knows this. And yes if you want to be taken seriously you are gonna need proof.
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That's pretty damned lame. Were you planning on taking the tyke to see Brokeback Mountain? Or do they have some free access to gay porn? Because I can't imagine how a 4 year old could be disturbed by homosexuality in mass media. When I was a kid I was a big fan of Paul Lynde, and had no concept of gayness. Just turn off Will and Grace, everyone else does. And so what if YOU don't want to see it? I thought that this was a free country. Geez, I thought it was bad enough when you might have been a 14-year-old and sharing these opinions, but it's scary that you're actually a parent. Unlike you, many of us DON'T know "for a fact" that people aren't supposed to be gay. If they're born that way (your point), then didn't "Mother Nature" make them that way? So how can you say that "she" didn't want it to happen? By the way, your argument that there might be some teleological force that determines what should or shouldn't be is ridiculous unless you tie it to some belief in a divinity. "Mother Nature" is much less judgmental than you are (or than I am, for that matter).
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You people ar crazy! 1. If Im at the mall and 2 guys are making out, yes it happens, I don't want my kid to see it. 2. You people don't know that people are not suposed to be gay? It's one thing to be accepting, it's something else to be ignorant of basic biology. Check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human
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Riiiiight. You're a social worker - that explains a lot. Where do you think the pedophile facts are going to be published, genius? In a journal dedicated to social science or humanities? Of course not. I guess when numbers don't fit your agenda, they can be swiftly swept aside with the statement, "That's not really a gay thing! It's a personality disorder!" How convenient! We in the legal field like to call that "bullshit." Of course, a legitimate argument could be made the homosexuality itself is a disorder, as it used to be classified, until the radical gays badgered the AMA to the point they stopped classifying it as such.
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i think i have the right not to be offended.
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Neither do I. You see were are not paedophiles. Homosexuality is not related to paedophilia. Paedophilia is a disorder regarding pre pubescence not gender. The journals I read regarding this are scientifc ones not social science ones. And proper analysis of "the numbers" shows very different results to what you seem to think.
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Dec 18, 2005 3:34:27 PM CST
This talkback is justification enough for Brokeback Mountain.
by scratcher
It's an uphill battle against of education. Luckily it won't be won or lost in an Internet forum.
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I meant, "It's an uphill battle of education." I decided against "It's an uphill battle against ignorance." and left in the "against." But either one works.
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To try and say that being gay is unhealthy is wrong or sick, or a mental disorder so just so sad it's funny. You people who hate on gays so much are clearly not mature enough to understand the basic concept. And in animals, especially dolphins, which have larger brains then we do, there is lots of homosexual behavior. It is natural, and if i'm in a mall and two guys are kissing, I'm not going to be upset if my kids see it. It would just lead to a interesting dinner conversation. The people who rag on gay people are clearly afraid of a lot of thigns. So for that, I feel pity for you guys.
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I don't need education. I am educated on the facts look at my posts. What I need is "to be more tolerant". You may want to dismiss my argument as ignorant, but it's not. I will concede that it is intolerant. You guys have yet to show me why my arguments are not factual.
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The same bit in the bible that mentions killing homosexuals for their sins says to kill adulterers as well. Adultery seems to be okay in our society. Our films and tv shows are filled with adulterous characters. Is it a shitty thing that ctually undermines the family structure? Yes. But that's cool because they are of different genders. WTF? If Titanic can have have two young people with no intention of gettig married bump uglies and get all sorts of awards, why can't Brokeback Mountain have two gay dudes?
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Dec 18, 2005 3:45:38 PM CST
zario your only "factual" argument is that you don't make ba
by cameron1
What facts have you presented? That people have sex to propigate the species. But people have sex for far more reasons that just that don't they? Why are you not intolerant towards them? You views have no intellectual truth to them.
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You just don't superzerro. Your facts are no diffrent then people three hundred years ago claiming the earth is flat. I would bet money in two hundred years (if we as humans haven't blown each other up) gay issues will be a thing of the past. Because the bottom line is, we shouldn't be restricing how people love each other.
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Dec 18, 2005 3:49:26 PM CST
America "We like our homosexuals as limp wristed swishy friends
by big bad clone
Think of how non-whites chracters were treated in Hollywood's golden years.
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Saying that one way of behavior that you approve is the way things are "supposed to be" isn't a FACT. It's your opinion. Our species doesn't NEED excessive breeding anymore, our overpopulation is straining the resources of the planet. You might say that homosexuality is a development that will help save the species by lowering birth rates. That Wikipedia page says nothing about homosexuality, but if you actually read the Wikipedia entry on homosexuality they don't support your position. They actually quote "'It is commonplace in nature.' Based on zoologists' observations of many different species."
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I thought this movie was about the 1850's to the 1870's. I thought this movie was about COWBOYS. I thought this was about Josey Wales, not Joe Buck. Heck, John Vought was doing the gay cowboy thing back in the love generation.
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Did you read what the article you pointed to actually said about human sexuality? It actually made some of the same points I did, and it contradicted what you said about the purpose of sex being procreation only. If you're going to point to an article as a reference, you should make sure you read it first.
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"Just because humans have evolved beyond instinct doesn't mean we should just accept abnormal behavior." That's what you said. Homosexuality has been present in human societies for thousands of years - probably since the dawn of our species. Two men loving each other harms no one, and some societies have understood this and "accepted" homosexuality. The concept of "accepting" or "rejecting" homosexuality implies that a value judgment is being made, not a scientific, medical judgment. Someone rejecting homosexuality is simply expressing a prejudice. Usually they try to find some justification for having that prejudice, but those efforts nearly always degenerate into appeals to the Bible or some other religious text. There aren't any justifications for anti-homosexual prejudice that stand up to scrutiny.
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Vikingkitty, you said that being gay is wrong because (according to you - I don't know the stats) STD rates among gays are high. This argument is silly. If the STD rates are high, it's because too many people are having unsafe sex, not because they're gay. My point is that being gay does not result in a high probability of getting STDs; having unsafe sex does. The same protections against STDs that work for straights work for gays. Saying that being gay is wrong because of high STD rates is like saying that being European was wrong in the 14th century because they had high rates of the black death.
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Quite hilarious that you're labeled a homophobe simply for disagreeing with that lifestyle. It's been my experience that gays are themselves intolerant. My brother's gay and he pretty much hates everyone who isn't, despite never being teased or harrassed when growing up. And scratcher, despite your belief that this talkback is "proof" we need more films like Brokeback, it is not. Hollywood and the mainstream media embrace such films while rejecting ones like The Passion, so perhaps we should have more of THOSE types of film to encourage tolerance of people of faith.
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I think we've all had enough of the lamenting of the conservatives and religious over their opression. Have you noticed that the Hollywood that supposedly hates you will embrace you just as soon as they see a profit in it? Do you think that they're ignoring the dollar signs of The Passion? The ridiculously labeled "mainstream media" was all over The Passion, or didn't you notice? Scorcese made Last Temptation as an expression of HIS faith, and what kind of tolerance was shown him by the religious conservatives? Also, why did you choose to substitute "proof" in quotes for "justification"? They're not synonyms.
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I'm sorry that your brother is a jerk. Mine is too, and he's a heterosexual. His two sons are much nicer, and one is gay and one is not. It doesn't seem to make a difference. I know many people I don't like who just happen to be gay, and several people who are nice, kind, tolerant and decent who are gay as well. It doesn't seem to make a difference. Well, at least to me it doesn't. For those of us who do have gay friends and relatives that we like, talkbacks such as these ARE justification for films that show what intolerance does to human beings who happen to be gay.
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Why do I find that hard to believe? If Sir Loin is willing to come on here and harrass complete strangers, how did his gay brother escape his searing wit?
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Dec 18, 2005 11:28:52 PM CST
What's surprising is how tender some of the scenes are, and
by cookylamoo
Yeah, especially when you're used to John Holmes grabbing a young kid by the hair and saying, "Suck it kid, suck it hard." Ahhh, gay porn the way it SHOULD be.
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Debate and expressing an opinion isn't the same as harrassing. Sorry to burst your bubble, searing wit and everything.
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Families and how they deal with things are all different, of course...my brother was never shunned or discouraged from choosing his own path, yet for some reason he's a bitter pill and has almost zero tolerance for anyone who has nary a negative opinion of gays. It's a shame too because he's a great person as I'm sure your own brother is. You're right about Hollywood cashing in on trends, though...I just find it ironic that no major studio wanted to touch The Passion yet they seemed to have no trouble with Brokeback, which is just as controversial. Good times, eh?
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Dec 19, 2005 12:22:53 AM CST
McMurtry + Proulx + Ang Lee + Ledger + Gylllllnhaaal = studio in
by scratcher
Most studios are cowards, which is probably why they shied away from Passion. Or maybe, just maybe, instead of the perceived anti-religious bias, it was the Aramaic? Put yourself in the shoes of a studio exec, wondering how many would sit through a subtitled retelling of the crucifixion. It was a longshot. Of course, Gibson's father's anti-semitism didn't help either in a jewish-friendly industry.
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Dec 19, 2005 5:33:01 AM CST
Yes Sir Loin, disagreeing with homosexuality does equal homopho
by cameron1
And I'll tell you why too: THERE. IS. NO. LOGICAL. REASON. TO. DISAGREE. WITH. IT. This isn't rocket science, this is obvious. Examin why you disagree with it, what are the reasons? They will boil down to religious belief, which is based on fear, general fear of difference or something not normal, or utter stupidity like zario. So, which is it Sir Loin, are you A)Thick as pigshit? B)Religious but docile and devoid of rigorous rationality. Or C)Just plain scared?
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Everyones argument against me here is that I don't have proof that man and woman were meant for each other. OK, take a minute and listen to yourself. "We don't know that man and woman are ment for each other". Really? You don't know that, just because I cant prove it to you guys. Well I can't prove that Man and animal are not suposed to be together either yet every once in a while you hear about a lonely farmer. And that too has been happening for years. Is also that OK? As I said you cal label me intolerant, I am fine with that, but the rest is just name calling.
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Dec 19, 2005 9:52:59 AM CST
ah zario, resorting to the strawman argument shows you've al
by cameron1
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How exactly did I lose? Because you said do? Please read every argument agaist me. Noone puts forth any new idea. All they do is call me ignorant and say I can't prove man and woman should be together. My oponent offer nothing but tolerance. While tolerance is sometimes a good thing, it provides no argument for a debate that has been pretty one sided. Oh and that's my side.
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stop it all of you. each and every single talkback is the same. If you're not interested in brokeback mountain, don't fucking watch it. what the fuck is all this crap about gay agenda? what is the gay agenda? do you have some sick twisted nightmare about us forcibly raping your men and surrounding you all with queer movies and married gay couples and drag queens and effeminate "girly men"? its not gonna happen, cause theres not that many of us out there. and i'm also sick of hearing people turning everything into a liberal/conservative clash. You know america is not the only country in the world. And frankly, no one else gives two hoots about democrats and republicans. And to, all those people who keep saying "i'm ok with homosexuality, but I can't look at two men together", get over it. I watch men and women together all the time. Remember the first time when you saw a guy and a girl kissing as a child and got grossed out? Remember how u got desensitized? The same thing will happen here. Stop whining. And if its that much of a problem, don't watch the movie. Really. If its so much of a problem, why bother to read the reviews and post in the talkback? I understand that the point of the talkbacks at AICN is all about foul language, political incorectness, and being able to write any kind of shit u want. But this is getting old.
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Dec 19, 2005 10:27:47 AM CST
no one has said men and women aren't "meant" to be together,
by cameron1
why does it bother you? You have no rationale for it bothering you.
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They don't want to know about it, they don't want their kids to know about it. They act like sex isn't a normal part of life. It's simply something to giggle about. The tight ass Puritans really did a number on this continent.
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As far as I'm concerned I won this argument . So I'm going to leave...for now. I'll be back when that gay ass Superman movie comes out.
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its either gay sex, or its happy holidays v/s merry christmast. Its fucking retarded. Just be smart enough to use your own brains to think for a change instead of letting fox news or new york times think for you. For the most powerful nation in the world, free speech, democracy and all that, we are all surprisingly a nicely fenced in flock of sheep.
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if i'm having gay sex, its my business. If i'm having sex with animals, that is too. You can't compare gay sex with animal sex or pedophilia or anything like that, because its not consensual. Gay sex is. Remember? If you can prove that the animal wants to do it with the farmer, then let them have sex. Who am I to judge them? Stop acting like you are normal because you are straight. Theres no such thing as heterosexuality being normal. The only thing that is normal is diversity. Each and every single one of us, from the pope to the sex offender, is a sexual deviant in some way or the other. We will just never ever admit it.
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apologies accepted on the Brokeback spoiler Big Guy, I understand that you are passionate about cinema and these things happen, you were writing "in the moment" and all...
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Talk about fear. It's clear from your frothing-at-the-mouth response that you're afraid of anything religious in nature. See? I can generalize, too! It's possible to disagree with something other than the reasons you listed in your nerd rage. By your own twisted logic, you're phobic and intolerant (and HATEFUL!). See how this works? Get over yourself. And MERRY CHRISTMAS.
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Dec 19, 2005 5:53:30 PM CST
Ah sirloin falling back on the whole intolerant of religion issu
by cameron1
No, it's no possible to disagree with homosexuality without being either stupid, religious or scared. If you can explain why you have a problem with gay people, it will boil down to stupidity fear or religion, that I promise you, I promise I will prove it to you aswell. So you go ahead loin, tell me why you have a problem with gays.
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When they chose to ignore nature and say things like "hetrosexuality isn't normal" and "there is no proof that men and women should be together" there is nothing you can do. Just be there to challenge them when they try to pass off their lies as facts.
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So don't attempt to lecture me about what "homophobia" is. I love him to death but disagree with his lifestyle. How does that make me (or anyone else) fearful and/or intolerant? Any why does Hollywood embrace a film like Brokeback but not The Passion? That was the original discussion. Direct your angst somewhere else.
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Dec 19, 2005 11:05:25 PM CST
Anyway, I wish you could subpoena people to appear on these talk
by cookylamoo
If I could, I'd love to subpoena Sir Loin's gay brother, so we could ask him what it was really like growing up with a "loving" but slightly homophobic sibling.
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kindly fuck off. If your brother is gay that makes you special? that automatically makes you non homophobic? Did you do anything besides being stuck with a gay brother, something you had no choice in, to qualify urself as a non-homophobe? "I love him, but disagree with his lifestyle". great, good for you. thats your opinion. But stop judging each and every gay person out there just because ur brother is a meth addict slut. Theres plenty of straight people who do that too.
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The moron over at BoxOfficeMojo calls Brokeback Mountain "simple and honest", and "a compelling tale of two men in love with one another." While at the same time he calls Narnia "fanciful Christian propaganda", and says that "like religion, this winter wonderland is arbitrary." Nice. So according to this guy, being a homo is honest, but being a Christian is arbitrary and fake. Apparently Narnia is "a poorly disguised Christian fairy tale", as if a Christian fairy tale should be covered up, thrown in a closet, and is a bad thing. It's funny when self-important reviewers reveal their own intolerance unwittingly. He seems to have as much, or more, of a problem with the association to Christianity as with the actual movie.
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Your mom is a man, and he doesn't like first posts.
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Dec 19, 2005 11:51:22 PM CST
"But stop judging each and every gay person out there just becau
by sir loin
You're an inbred. Best of luck with all 2 teeth you have.
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I find it interesting that you claim religion's condemnation of homosexual acts can only be based on fear. There are other possibilities. A)There really is a God and among the behaviors He comanded mankind not to participate in was homosexual acts. This commandment then got confused - as did most of the rest - and some folks felt empowered to hate homosexuals and enact violence on them. Perhaps the commandment wasn't based on fear but God's word? B) When the 'cavemen' started religion back in the day they noticed that to keep the species going they needed the men to poke women instead of each other and bond with these woman and protect the offspring and made it a societial norm that men left other men alone. This social rule was then handed down and strengthened and propigated by religion and stuck. C) Some instinct in many humans, on a base level, recognizes that procreation is needed to continue the species and so behaviors which mirror the act but don't fullfill the purpose set off alarms in the instinctive brain. The perceived 'wrongness' then soaked into what became religion (which serves the social purpose of outlining behavior that is acceptable in society) and it was declared 'wrong' - not because it was different but because it horrified many intinctively........................................................FOR THE RECORD, I am not taking up an arguement against homosexuals, I just don't buy the premise that religious stances are always based on fear. There are other possibilities.
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Anybody at ALL interested in the film really should read the short story. It is available on line. Those that dislike the movie because of its themes and those who love it because of its themes and even those who just want to see a good movie, check out the story. Yes, I am too lazy to look it up but then I already looked it up and read it.
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Seems to me that when I read about homosexual movies or books or lives, I am often told it is love between two men. So, is homosexuality about the emotions between two men or the physical sexual interactions between two men? I have very deep and loving and strong relationships with men but I definitely lust women and don't feel that way towards men. I get the impression that these bonds I share with males would make me 'gay' according to some people. I find that odd. Anyway, is it the emotions or the lust or both or neither or what exactly that makes somebody 'gay' to people 'in the community'?
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And if it there really is a God up there in heaven who expressly forbids homosexuality then eh will have also expressly forbidden everything else it says is forbidden in the bible right?So that's no working no sundays, no touching pigskin (or something near that) and a thousand and one other things that everyone with the exception of perhaps monks and nuns does all the time. So my argument is that although the bible says it people only use that book as a crutch to back up the fear of gay people that is to a greater or lesser extent ingrained with people socially and biologically. It is fear because as you say the cavemen noticed sex between man and woman was needed to keep going so they stigmatised gay behaviour...well that's fear of being wiped out isn't it? Back at the dawn of man that's a somewhat reasonable idea, but in an overpopulated world with humans as the most successful species ever we don't need to fear gay people for not making more humans do we? Again the instinct thing boils down to fear. It's like a fear of dead bodies, that smell we find so disgusting is a learned response to prevent us from going near a dead body it's something ingrained in us to protect us from danger or disease, it's fear once again same goes for homosexuality, fear that it's unnatural (although it does exist in nearly every animal species and in humans since the our beginning) turns to revulsion which is what people still feel, heck I still don't like to see 2 men fucking but I don't make judgement calls on them because of it unlike homophobes. So really it does boil down to fear, religion (which is still fear) or stupidity, check out zario for that last one.
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A good friend of mine is gay too so I can talk to you about homophobia without you taking some sort of high ground about your brother. You disagree with his lifestyle you have stated that clearly. Your disagreement is based on fear, hence HOMOPHOBIC. I promise you, that, unless it's stupidity (and I don't think your stupid) or religious belief (in which case do you disagree with everything that's forbidden in the bible?)it's fear.
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I've always found it aumsing that I can refer to my female friends as "my girlfriends" without anyone accusing me of being a lesbian (though I've been accused of that for other reasons..)just one of the differences between men and women I suppose. That said, my girlfriends and I are all looking forward to seeing a love story between two extremely hot men. If this was a movie about two hot women in love, men would be all over it...because they don't perceive gay women as a threat. I'll leave my boyfriend home for this one and take a pass when he and his buddies go see Jessica Alba and Jennifer Aniston in their upcoming lesbian movie.
and it's nice to see that Sarah Jessica Parker was able to find work after "Sex and the Corrall" -
Ok, i got carried away with that last post and I apologize. But I have to tell you that your gay brother regardless, the content of your posts lead me to believe that you are a homophobe. You love your brother, so what exactly in his lifestyle do you not approve of? That he loves men? Something he has no choice about? If you love him so much, try putting yourself in his shoes for a change. I wish people would stop judging everyone because they are different. You have no idea what it is like to be gay. No one is forcing the "lifestyle" on you. Yes, you see it in some movies and on some TV and in the news, but really, the overwhelming majority of everything is straight oriented. Every holiday, every festival, every occasion, from law to media is straight dominated, and yet there is an immediate backlash when a movie like brokeback comes along.
MrCere: Its both the emotional and physical love for the same sex that are involved in homosexuality. We all have emotional feelings for ppl of the same sex, friends and family members. Unfortunately a lot of people think its only the physical aspect that appeals to homosexuals and that makes it reason enough to condemn it. -
Interesting comments. Thanks for stopping in, we often lack a female perspective on things here. Not that it matters because it wouldn't ever happen in a Hollywood flick, but what if the two guys in the film were ugly? Would you (as a rep for women) still want to see the show for love-story elements or is it the guys' hotness that compells you? Feel free to stick around!
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if the two guys were ugly...hmmm...lets think about that..what if it was based on the real life love between Matthew Broderick and Nathan Lane (now THERE'S a forbidden love story for ya)? I'd watch it anyway because I love gay men (I think that's just a straight chick thing) and I love a good love story. I might find their kissing sweet and sentimental but I'm fairly sure I wouldn't want to see them plowing each other. Would you want to watch Kathy Bates and Diane Keaton making the beast with two backs onscreen? :) So I've gotta say that part of what's so attracive about "Brokeback Mountain" is the hotness of the two stars (though I'd take Jake Gyllenhaal in "Jarhead" any day..it's something about that military hair).
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