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#26 11/16/05 #4

The Pull List
(Click title to go directly to the review)

Comics Catchup: FABLES
Q & @ with James T Mitchel & Freddie Williams II of CHANCE OF A LIFETIME
Indie Jones presents…


Writer: Dan Slott
Artist: Andrea DiVito
Publisher: Marvel
Reviewer: Ambush Bug

If you buy one comic this week…well, okay…buy ALL STAR SUPERMAN. But if you buy two, make sure the other one is Dan Slott’s THE THING. Remember all of those reviews you read about Slott’s SHE-HULK? How fun the title is on a consistent basis? How respectful it is of continuity without making you feel as if you need to do homework in order to enjoy it? How rich and full a single issue of the series is? Well, the same applies here in THE THING. Dan Slott’s THE THING is, simply put, what a Marvel comic should be.

Anyone who has read my reviews knows I’m a DC kind of guy. Although I am growing weary of the doom and gloom that is permeating that universe, I prefer it to the Marvel U simply because I enjoy the interconnectedness of the DCU. I like it that when something happens in one DC book, like a character dies or changes or evolves in one storyline, those changes have ramifications in other titles. Marvel doesn’t seem to share that respect for interconnectedness (the four letter word for it is continuity, folks). Their philosophy is that you shouldn’t have to buy the entire line to enjoy a story. And to a degree they have a point, but why write your entire line as if none of the other titles exist? I think there is a medium ground that could be reached. And to me, that medium ground is evident in THE THING #1.

Let me take you on a time trip. It’s in the early eighties. MTV just got off the ground. I’m playing with Star Wars and GI JOE figures on the faux grass carpet on the back porch and saving the rest of my pennies to run down to the Short Stop to twirl that squeaky magazine rack and pick up some comics and maybe some Purple Lava bubble gum. One of the first comics I picked up was MARVEL TWO-IN-ONE starring (you guessed it) the Thing. I believe the Thing was teamed up with Quasar and in the middle of a Project Pegasus adventure. I didn’t really care about that, I just liked all of the cool looking characters. The next time I saved my pennies, I run to the Short Stop, twirl the squeaky rack, no MARVEL TWO-IN-ONE, but on the cover of something called CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS is the Thing. Cool! So I buy that one and I’m introduced to scads of other cool looking heroes like Captain America, Spider-Man, and Wolverine. Next time. Save pennies. Go to Short Stop. Twirl squeaky rack. No CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS. But there’s a CAPTAIN AMERICA book and a SPIDER-MAN book, and Wolverine is on the cover of UNCANNY X-MEN (there was only one title at the time, do you believe it?). So I buy those. Pretty soon I’m buying four or five Marvel comics a month simply because the universe interconnected. It’s good marketing. And a Marvel Zombie was born.

And time trip.

I’ve recently completed my Marvel Zombie twelve step program: a cure administered by the likes of Bill Jemas, Joe Quesada, Ron Zimmerman, and Chuck Austen. But for a long time, I bought a buttload of Marvel comics simply because one book connected to another in some way and I felt I was a part of something bigger than just the one story I was reading. After reading THE THING #1, I had that feeling of Marvel U. interconnectedness that I haven’t felt in quite a long time.

The story bounces from one of JMS’ more interesting additions to the Thing mythos, the fact that he has recently become rich beyond imagination. The once feared and hated man-monster is now truly the idol o’ millions, decorating tabloids and hobknobbing it up with the rest of the upper crust. In issue one, after making short work of Cauldron the Scalding Man with Black Goliath, the Thing finds himself at a frou frou party with the elite. The party is being held by the Thing’s new Hollywood star girlfriend, who has made enemies of her own in a Paris Hilton wannabe who wasn’t invited to said party. This being the Marvel U. I once knew and loved, the snubbed vixen goes to a supervillain to ruin the shindig. And this once again being the Marvel U. I once knew and loved, not only does the Thing show up for this party, but so do billionaires Tony Stark (AKA Iron Man), Kyle Richmond (AKA the dorky Nighthawk, not the cool black redux of the character from SUPREME POWER series), and “reformed” baddie Fred Schlessinger (AKA Constrictor). I love it that a fancy party is thrown and all of the billionaire superheroes show up. Of course, superheroism and villainy ensues, leading to a whopper of a reveal and cliffhanger ending.

Again, this is a full course meal of a book, starting out with a slugfest, establishing the Thing and his current status quo to new readers, introducing some new characters, and then diving back into the ring for more action. There’s enough here to satisfy those who have had problems with trade-pacing and slowly developed plots, but it’s dense enough to satisfy those who want more than two guys punching each other in the nuts.

The thing that stands out with this issue is that once again, Slott has come up with an interesting premise to reel in the reader to care about the Thing. He makes him a flawed character, similar to the way Slott portrayed She-Hulk in her series. Being one of the nouveaux-riche, the Thing has developed some tendencies that prove to be annoying to his friends who knew him before he hit the jackpot. Slott interjects comments from Wonder Man, Ms. Marvel, Spider-Man, Mary Jane and others in the Marvel U. reacting to the Thing’s newly acquired habit of throwing his money around. This is the type of premise that could go any number of places and take the Thing all around the Marvel U. I can’t wait to see what Slott has planned for the character.

And speaking of the Marvel U., this book looks to be more like those old MARVEL TWO-IN-ONE’s than a THING solo book. In the first page, the Thing tells the reader that he doesn’t hang with the Fantastic Four all of the time, hinting that there’ll be team-up after team-up in this book and that’s okay by me.

The one thing that permeates every panel of this book is fun. The Thing is one of the most accessible and personable characters in the Marvel U. His attitude, his style, the way he looks (rendered with marvelous Perez-ian detail by Andrea DiVito), the way he speaks--all are some of the most distinguishable characteristics in modern graphic storytelling. I’m still a DCU fan, but with Marvel continuing to churn out fresh books like THE THING, this Marvel Zombie could once again rise from the grave.


Writer: Grant Morrison
Artists: Frank Quitely/Jamie Grant
Publisher: DC Comics
Reviewer: Prof. Challenger

It’s really difficult to put into words the experience of reading ALL-STAR SUPERMAN Episode 1. The best I can come up with is that it was the nearest SUPERMAN comic-book equivalent to my experience watching the SUPERMAN movie for the first time.

Growing up with Superman in the ‘70s meant that the comics were mostly bland and uninspiring yet reliably entertaining. In the realm of TV, reruns of THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN were quaint but distractingly lame as George Reeves in his padded costume leaped onto his trampoline and out the window to the same stock “whoooo-eeeeee-ooooossssshhhh” flying sounds or appearances on the even lamer SUPER FRIENDS cartoon.

How well I remember the months leading up to the premiere of the SUPERMAN movie with the tagline “You’ll Believe a Man Can Fly.” The commercials and ads simply focused on images of clouds as seen through the eyes of someone flying through the sky and the iconic image of a gleaming silver Superman shield. I had my mom drop me off at the mall on the Saturday afternoon of the opening weekend. From that first shot of the comic book phasing into the “actual” Daily Planet spinning globe, I was absorbed into the film. Superman became real. When it was over, I walked right back out to the box office and bought a ticket for the next show and walked right back into the same theater and waited for it to start again.

I’ve never done that again with any other movie.

Well, similarly, the situation over the last 20 years has seen Superman, as a character, reach what must be a near zenith in public popularity. However, most of that popularity is outside the comic book field itself. There’s the LOIS & CLARK TV series, SUPERMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES, SMALLVILLE, the iconic youth clothing styles emblazoned with the “S” shield, and endless licensed products from toys to toiletries, and more. But the comics? Sure, there are the hardcore Superman completist fans and occasional blips of excitement surrounding the character, but creative and editorial mediocrity and predictability has reigned supreme for decades. So, when something like ALL-STAR SUPERMAN comes out, well, I’ve likened it to a “religious” experience to some extent. But, however I phrase it, the point is that this was the best SUPERMAN comic I can remember reading and unless Morrison pulls a Meltzer on me, it will be the first SUPERMAN series I’ve bought on a “monthly” basis since….oh….the marriage of Clark and Lois. And by then, I’d been emotionally checked out on the comic books for awhile.

This comic is not perfect, but it affected me in deep ways. I did not like the infantile penis joke shoehorned in on page 6 and Frank Quitely still confounds me with the dichotomy of his illustrations. Overall, Quitely tells this story in a lyrically beautiful fashion. The first page recap of Superman’s origin was spectacular in its simplicity and the two-page spread of Superman gliding over the surface of the sun was sublimely beautiful. Yet, for all the beauty I see in his work, he draws the most persistently ugly faces on his characters. Somehow, Quitely injects Superman with a real sense of power and regality, but many times he was just…ugly.

However, his Metropolis was impressively retro-nouveau. Classic in look but just a couple of steps into the future. Quitely’s efforts at making Superman and Clark distinctive were superb. Where Superman stood with the posture of a king and bearing that speaks of confidence and power, his Clark was slumped with a wrinkled suit clumsily tripping his way through life. The reader, however, who can see the whole picture, sees that his clumsiness is many times a simple effort to continue protecting the people of his adopted world. For example, look to the scene where Clark “accidentally” bumps into the man in the crosswalk preventing the man from getting killed by falling debris.

Excellent artistry.

But, it’s not just the art that made this comic succeed so well. Morrison recognizes that one of the reasons why Superman is lesser than he could be in the modern DC universe is simply the fact that he really has become just one of many. No matter how much DC wants to “tell” everyone that he is the “Zeus” to their pantheon, there is no way to really make that stick when they keep him overly interconnected with everything that goes on in their line of books through guest appearances and/or references. When Superman was a true success in the comic industry he basically stayed within the bounds of his own books except for infrequent team-ups with Batman or regular appearances in a team book (ALL-STAR or JLA).

Morrison presents Superman as “the” hero of Earth ~ a hero so unique that Dr. Leo Quintum is working towards creating a new race of super-clones to take Superman’s place were he to die or be killed. This would be an absurd story option in the current DC universe because if Superman dies today, there are still 500 heroes to instantly step up and take his place. For ALL-STAR SUPERMAN, though, this is a classic Superman with all the elements that are familiar to the public at large with a modern tweak. He foreshadows Bizarro and Kandor, but he also introduces a new and interesting character in Dr. Quintum. In this single issue, he has ramped up Superman’s powers threefold, given him a new bioelectric power, and revealed that the same solar exposure (caused by Luthor’s sabotage) that tripled his powers is also killing him. Morrison begins his first Superman story with what could be the last. He dwells on what motivates the characters ~ mortality. Luthor, faced with the fact that he’s getting older but Superman is not, sets in motion a plan to finally kill Superman. Superman, faced with his own impending death, drops his cover and reveals his identity to Lois. These are big events and they’re just the beginning of the story.

Even more than just the analytical explanation for what was special about this comic, the bottom line is that it “felt” right. For the first time since I can remember in a comic, I felt like Superman was real ~ the same feeling I had when I saw the SUPERMAN movie for the first time. ALL-STAR SUPERMAN made Superman come alive for me again.


Writer: Ed Brubaker
Penciler: Pablo Raimondi
Publisher: Marvel Comics
Reviewed by Humphrey Lee

Like most comic book fans, if confronted with the task of making a list of my favorite super-villains, undoubtedly Dr. Doom would have his spot on the roster, and probably high up on said list too. I don't know what it is exactly about the character, the name, his nefarious machinations, or the shiny, shiny suit, but he just seems to ooze cool. But aside from the aesthetical reasons to dig the character, he is definitely one of the few villains out there to have a well developed and highly involving back story. And that's why this book exists. Ed Brubaker is one of the best exclusive talents Marvel has in their pool right now, and he's been called on to give readers the "definitive" back story on one of Marvel's most popular villains. And the result is a story that is very engaging read, showing one of the Marvel Universes most frightening and powerful villains being just that, but also showing a very tragic side to the character as well.

As most followers know, Victor Von Doom not only has a brilliant scientific mind that he uses to do that thing he does, but he also has some mystic origins to back up his power as well. Born and raised by a band of wandering gypsies, Victor's mother was a woman proficient in the Black Arts, a skill that would bring much misfortune to Victor and his clan. A ritual gone wrong that not only ended in the death of his mother, but led to the hunting of his clan for her misdeeds, and consequentially forced Victor at a very young age to show a great strength and ambition as he used these skills to keep his people alive. Using a storytelling style of a filmed biography, Brubaker shows Dr. Doom in a very candid light as he recalls all these events and more. He talks about said events with his mother, talks about one of his few friends and eventual love Valeria, and shows as he starts to develop not only his own talent for dark magic, but great scientific intellect as well. It really is a very interesting perspective on the character, and gives great insight into how a young boy who only wants to be happy and playful can turn into one of the most feared and powerful men in the universe.

Another huge positive for the book is the art. As far as I know I've never encountered Pablo Raimondi's art before, but it is very crisp and works very well for the book. Since the book is more emotionally driven, his art is perfect in regards to conveying that emotion with a very good range of facial ticks and expressions to drive home Victor as he progresses from innocent young boy to a very angry and determined teenager. Also, his backgrounds are very lush and give a very welcoming feel to contrast with the desperation the group of gypsies is entangled with.

Really, the only problem I can find with the story is in the way it's told. Like I said, this is "filmed" in the way of a video documentary, which has Von Doom doing the voiceover and routinely cuts to the present day and Victor's armored visage. It doesn't happen too often, but it's unnecessary and jarring when it happens. I can see it at the beginning, obviously, to let you know what's going on, but I just found it breaking the flow a bit. Other than that minor gripe, this is already shaping up to be not only one of the best Doom-centric stories I've read, but one of the better reads I've had all year.


Written By: Bob Harras
Penciled by: Marcos Martin
Published by: DC Comics
Reviewed by: superhero

It really sucks when a good book goes the way of the dinosaur and make no mistake about it…BREACH was a good book.

The problem is that BREACH was just only good and was never really able to get itself up to being actually great If BREACH had given us more issues like this final issue then maybe it would have been able to find the greatness it needed to survive as an ongoing book. As it is, it’s ironic that it’s BREACH’s final issue that gives us a taste of what this book really could have been.

Don’t get me wrong, BREACH was one of the better comics that came out in the past year or so. But the book had problems. One of which, besides the fact that it was generally a CAPTAIN ATOM knock- off, was the book’s pacing. The mystery behind the origin of the main protagonist dragged on too long throughout BREACH’s short, yet entertaining, run. For issue after issue the mystery of his powers, the origins of the inter-dimensional invaders, and the drama of his family not knowing that the main character had survived the incident which made him super-human dragged beyond the patience of this particular reader. See, the trick with a really compelling thriller/drama is being able to tie up loose ends within the plot just enough to give the reader some sense of satisfaction but, at the same time, hoodwinking readers by leaving other plotlines hanging or introducing completely new mysteries to intrigue fans. The TV drama THE X-FILES did this brilliantly for a while. Every time Scully and Mulder found answers there were just more questions revealed so that, for the better part of five years, fans were hooked until the show ultimately revealed itself to be the aimless sham that it was. The problem with BREACH was that it seemed like the author knew where he wanted it to go but just took too much of his time actually getting anywhere. None of the plot’s mysteries were ever fully revealed within the span of the first ten issues. The odds were already against this book, what with it being a completely “new” DC character, but to introduce a whole world of new elements to the DCU and not have a new hook every couple of issues to suck readers even further in might just have been the kiss of death for BREACH.

BREACH #11 really took the intrigue to a new level which, of course, is unfortunate since it’s the final issue. Obviously the writer of the book needed to wrap up as much as he could with the last couple of issues, but this one packs the punch that issues earlier in the run should have. It’s not that we get any particular answers to the mysteries I’ve mentioned, but there’s actually some movement within story threads that have been nagging this title since issue one. Not only that, but the lead character suffers a major tragedy which changes everything for him. It’s written is such a great way that I couldn’t help but be left with the desire to want to see what happens next. But since this is the last issue, there goes the hope to see any of that resolved. If only the writer of this book had given BREACH more hardcore emotional moments like the ones in this issue then maybe BREACH could have survived. As it is, I’ll have to be satisfied with what I got, a good story with a great ending…if you can even call it that because it’s more of a cliff hanger than anything else.

This mini-series ended up being a pretty compelling and actually quite sad story. When the trade collection comes out I’d highly recommend buying it. Sure, the payoff doesn’t answer everything, but in the infinite universe that is comic books, what book does? This miniseries ended up being more satisfying than most ongoing series out there. Heck, maybe what BREACH has taught me is that the good stuff doesn’t need to survive five hundred issues. Maybe eleven issues are more than enough when your story ends up being as good as BREACH was. Still, I do wish this book had been given more time to grow, but if this is how it has to end I’ll bid BREACH a fond farewell and try to remember it with the respect it deserves.

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Writer: J. Michael Straczynski
Artists: Mike McKone/Andy Lanning
Publisher: Marvel Comics
Reviewer: Prof. Challenger

In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth,
the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters.
Then God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

~ Genesis 1:1-3 (NAB)

When on high the heaven had not been named,
Firm ground below had not been called by name,
When primordial Apsu (first-existing god representing order) their begetter,
And Mummu-Tiamat (wife of Apsu representing chaos and threat), she who bore them all,
Their waters mingled as a single body,
No reed hut had sprung forth, no marshland had appeared,
None of the gods had been brought into being,
And none bore a name, and no destinies determined—
Then it was that the gods were formed in the midst of heaven.

~ The Seven Tablets of Creation (Enuma Elish), Tablet 1:1-9

And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth.
And the earth, after it was formed, was empty and desolate, because they had not formed anything but the earth; and darkness reigned upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of the Gods was brooding upon the face of the waters.
And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.

~ Book of Abraham 4:1-3

A reading from the BOOK OF CHALLENGER

In the beginning, there was a void.
There was not light nor darkness;
There was not life nor death;
There was not truth or lie.
All was vast emptiness – a void.

Into the void appeared the dark, horned Entity who yearned to know truth.


A silent cry filled the emptiness and existence began.
The universe whirled and screamed.
Planets were created then immediately consumed by the flames of light that birthed them.
Life sprang forth only to be instantly crushed and destroyed.
The void had become chaos.
Existence without structure.
Function without form.
Struggle without balance.

What began as a thought imploded upon itself.

In despair, the Entity cried out once more;
This time for balance.
In the silence, the Other heard the cry.
A cry for balance;
A cry for knowledge.

The Other was flesh and blood.
The Other spake the Order of Nature’s Laws.
Life and struggle wrestling eternally with peace and entropy.

Where once was destruction and death came bursts of joy and life;
Punctuated by death and sadness.
Yin and yang.

Chaos was brought unto Order.
Understanding was achieved;
The Void became the Universe;
The Universe became self-aware;
The End was the Beginning;
The Beginning was the End.

Chapter 2
Time flashes forward.
A time of corporate indulgence;
Of bankrupted creativity without artistic expression;
Of arrogance unrestrained by editorial intrusion.

Reed Richards.
Knowledge is his existence.
Family is his heart.
Guilt-driven to distraction for what was but an accident.

Yet, no.

What was an accident is now paradoxically predestined and foreordained.
By Reed Richards himself.
Guilty no more.
Horror wrought upon Grimm with divine forethought.
Sickly satisfied Reed creates again.

The truth intrudes.
Reed Richards is more than just knowledge and heart.
He is the I Am.
The impetus of creation.
Bringing order to the horned devil’s creation of chaos.

Reed Richards is no less than God.
God is Man and Man is God.

Odd that atheism should drive such a tale.
Proclaiming forth that there is no God;
Yet utterly confounded by the conundrum of creation;
And the imponderable beginning of the never begun.

Where has humility gone?
Respect replaced by meretricious hubris.
Blasphemy mocked and ramifications be damned.

Where are the editors?

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
In life and in fiction.

Such a waste.

Such a waste.


Comics Catchup takes a few consecutive issues of a single comic and looks at it in depth. Occasionally, a book comes along that I enjoy immensely, but for one reason or another, I let issue after issue pile up in my “To Read” stack by my nightstand. The good part about that is that I get to enjoy numerous issues in a row which often leads to a different reading experience than reading the issues as they come out on a monthly basis.

FABLES #40-43

Writer: Bill Willingham
Art: Mark Buckingham & Steve Leialoha
Publisher: DC Vertigo
Reviewer: Ambush Bug

It wasn’t too long ago that I stayed away from all things non-superhero. It wasn’t until Garth Ennis knocked me on my @$$ with his PREACHER series that I really noticed that comics can be more than just guys in spandex punching other guys in spandex. Since then, I started paying attention to what DC’s alternative/mature reader’s line, Vertigo, had to offer. I got into SANDMAN late in the game, and by the time I started reading it, the series’ end was looming, so I never really got into that one. When PREACHER and SANDMAN came to an end, DC set out to find a replacement for these flagship titles. Two series sprang out of nowhere to fill those empty seats – Y: THE LAST MAN and the focus of this Catchup, FABLES.

FABLES takes the bedtime stories you grew up reading and places them in the modern world. Writer Bill Willingham picks these characters from their original incarnations, not the Disneyfied versions most of the public is aware of. And this is one of the most appealing aspects of this book. Willingham seems to have done his research. He knows the original fables. These stories weren’t sugar coated. They weren’t made to sell merchandise. They were precautionary tales before Disney got their grubby paws on them. Stories to frighten naughty children into behaving. But even a story that has been passed down through the years, permutated and sanitized through time and censorship, still has recognizable aspects of the original. Willingham injects enough personality into these characters that they are instantly recognizable to the viewer. I find myself laughing at this book often. Not because of the humor in the book (although that causes a chuckle as well), but because of the fact that these are characters I recognize from late night story time with my father or mother. This isn’t a writer getting his jollies by reimagining a foul version of childhood stories. Willingham respects the fact that these fables have been around for ages and seems to be using the original stories as a springboard for his own.

Aside from respect for the source material, character is a huge part of why I enjoy this series. Willingham has assembled a gigantic cast of characters--each distinct, each able to carry their own story arc. He’s built an expansive world in which these characters can function, survive, and get into trouble. From the sleazy Prince Charming to the underdog heroism of Boy Blue, from the nagging Beauty to her sheepish Beast, from the scamp-like nature of Pinocchio to the Napoleon Dynamite-ism of Flycatcher – every character in this book not only has a vast literary history, but one equally interesting formulated by Willingham himself.

The story so far is this: The Fables we grew up reading about are real and war is sweeping across their Homelands. A powerful being known as the Adversary and his armies have left death and oppression in their wake. Although the Fables fought hard, they were forced to flee their enchanted land and spill into the real world. In an enchanted borough in New York, the area known as Fabletown exists to shelter those who have survived the Adversary’s wrath. But adjusting to the real world is not easy. Although enchantments are in place, Fabletown is often in danger of being discovered by the Adversary’s evil forces and the Mundys (the Fable word for humans). The Fables who have human forms can interact with the humans, but the inhuman Fables are forced to live in seclusion. Since the very beginning, relations between the Fables have been delicate. Many of the Fables’ loved ones didn’t make it when they migrated out of the Homelands. Relations between the human-looking Fables and the inhuman-looking ones have been tense. And the day to day running of Fabletown is always in chaos.

This series started out with Old King Cole as Mayor of Fabletown, with Snow White acting as his right hand and Bigby Wolf (AKA The Big Bad Wolf) as the town’s Sheriff. These three characters were the focus of the bulk of the first 30 issues of this book. They took on Mundy spies, the rebellion of the Farm where the inhuman Fables live, and a full-on attack by the Adversary’s army. But a few issues back, Prince Charming decided that he could run things better as Mayor of Fabletown, staged an election, and with a little help from his enchanting charm, won. Now Prince Charming must become accustomed to this responsibility (something he is not accustomed to). Aiding him are Beauty, taking over for Snow White, and the Beast, filling the shoes of the Sheriff. Since the change of office, things have been spiraling out of control as Prince Charming realized how tough the job of Mayor of Fabletown really is.

One of the most endearing aspects of the book was the relationship between Bigby Wolf and Snow White. Like a fairy tale version of David Addison and Maddie Hayes from MOONLIGHTING, the verbal swordplay and sexual tension between these two characters was something truly special. But after a witch used her spells to enchant them into sleeping together and Snow White became pregnant, Bigby turned tail and disappeared, while Snow White took a hiatus to take care of her brood of wolf-children. When Willingham decided to shift gears and put this couple into the background for a while, a red flag flew up for me and I thought I’d begin to grow weary of this book. But Willingham has gone to great lengths to make this a true ensemble book. After reading about characters such as Boy Blue, Beauty and the Beast, Mowgli, and Jack of Fables, I found that I wasn’t missing the odd pairing of damsel and wolf-man at all. I’m sure Willingham has more tales with Bigby and Snow, but after 30-some issues, I guess they deserve a break.

One of the things that may be overlooked with all of the recognizable characters is the fact that this book has some pretty savvy political themes. The hectic day-to-day job of running a city is delved into in depth. Prince Charming’s political coup was especially well handled, reflecting current political scandals.

It wasn’t until I read the books in this Catchup that I noticed how politics played a role in this massive story. Issues #40 and 41 are the last two chapters of the “Homelands” arc. Boy Blue has stolen enchanted weapons and has cut a bloody path through the Homelands to take on the Adversary on his own. This arc followed Blue as he made his way up the political ladder to do battle with the Adversary himself. In issue #40, the true identity of the Adversary and how he came to be is revealed. Once the identity of the Adversary was revealed, Boy Blue took advantage of the clichéd tendency of villains to reveal their plans when they think that they have the hero under their thumb and convinced him to recant how he came into power. It is a story of literal figurehead leaders and overthrowing governments seen through the lens of a fictional universe, but reminiscent of how governments are overturned in the real world.

Although the big reveal was a bit of a letdown for me, I’m glad that the trite nature of the “secret bad guy” motif has finally been exposed so Willingham can continue to tell his stories. This book didn’t hinge on the identity of the Adversary. The characters and stories are too powerful for that.

Now that the Adversary and his plans have been revealed in issues #40 and 41, Willingham plows into a brand new storyline. “Arabian Knights (And Days)” is a four part arc. Having conquered all of the European Fable Realms, the Adversary and his army are invading the Arabian Fables’ Realm. This is yet another arc filled with textured politics which could be ripped from today’s headlines. Culture clash is the conflict of this arc, where Sinbad and the rest of the Arabian Knights Fables arrive in Fabletown as refugees. After a humorous greeting which lacks the pomp that the Royal Arabian Fables are used to, Sinbad and the rest find themselves less than impressed with the American Fabletown. Issues #42 & 43 focuses on the difference between these two groups of fables. King Cole is called back to act as liaison between the two parties, using his political experience to smooth over talks between the brash Sinbad and the aloof Prince Charming. Shades of foreign talks between our own President and other world leaders come to mind as Prince Charming makes one political blunder after another.

Adding to an already appealing story and cast is the stellar art of Mark Buckingham. He not only fills every panel with gorgeous figures, backgrounds, and angles, but his art spills into the alleys between the pages and panels. Every character has a border of his or her own which surrounds the page that focuses on that character. This makes for an especially rich read. You automatically know which point of view the page is referring to by the decorations and images surrounding the page. From page one to the last, this is a richly elegant looking book.

Last week, issue #43 hit the stands. It’s mid-arc and may not be the perfect jumping on point for this series, but this gives those of you who haven’t read FABLES a chance to give it a taste in either back issue or trade form. DC is pretty quick with the trades, so check out the first of them. The continued tales of the Fables never fails to entertain. By the time you wade through the previous arcs, you’ll be all caught up and ready for more like I am.


James T Mitchel: Writer
Freddie Williams II: Artist
Cellar Door: Publisher
Vroom Socko: Doing a Chance Interview

Cellar Door Publishing’s sophomore effort at first seems like the usual superhero “real world” origin story. I know, I know, everybody seems to be doing one these days. But this one is different. No, really. You see, Jack Lewis actually manages to have some fun as a superhero. You remember fun, right? Not only that, but when this guy throws down with a supervillain… man, the pillars of heaven shake. What I really enjoyed, however, is that even with all his superpowers, there are some fights Jack just can’t and doesn’t win.

You’re not buying it, are you? You’re thinking this is the sort of thing you’ve seen a thousand times. And if James Mitchel and Freddie Williams were here, you’d tell them so, saying something like:

Oh God, this is just another "Average Joe gets superpowers" story, isn't it?

James Mitchel: What? Did you read the book? You were supposed to read the book before the interview! Kidding. But seriously, what separates our book from an "Average Joe gets superpowers" story is that we wanted our main character to feel as real and human as possible, despite the fact that he gained super powers. Freddie and I really focused on creating a main character, a man named Jack Lewis, that had all the same problems and complications that we have all experienced. We did this so we could see what superpowers would do to a normal man….what parts of his personality would change, and what would stay the same? Would he become a better man, or would his new powers corrupt him? How I chose to approach this is by having the story narrated by a very old and wheel chair bound Jack, after he has lost those superpowers. “Chance of a Lifetime” is Jack talking about the “golden age” of his youth when he was a super hero. And the first thing we learn about Jack is that he yearns for nothing more than to have those superpowers again.

Freddie Williams: I think when anyone reads the book, it will be pretty evident right off the bat, that "Chance of a Lifetime" isn't just the same old "guy gets powers" sort of book. What makes "Chance of a Lifetime" so different is the story James has written. It’s full of emotional content, which is pretty atypical for superhero books, but he does it really well, and that is what drives the characters.

Based on that, which is the more important fight in this book: Jack versus the Kaiser or Jack versus his brother?

FW: Wow, great question! To me, it would have to be the fight (or shall I say battle) with Kaiser. Though the fight with his brother is hugely important, in the fight with Kaiser, Jack is incredibly outclassed. After Jack (the American) gains his powers, he assumes everything in his life will be easy, but in his experience with Kaiser, Jack learns that there are no easy answers. Those powers make him extremely strong, and fast, but in the end his greatest weapons are his own human spirit, the memories of his son, and his strong moral base (that and a red hot piece of jagged metal). Jack learns hope, and that life is worth fighting for.

JM: While the fight with Kaiser is vital to Jack discovering his own inner strength, I think the fight with Jack’s brother more defines and is important in our main character’s life. I see the struggle with his brother as what helped to keep Jack human, in spite of his amazing powers. Their struggle keeps Jack involved in all the annoying conflicts that keep each of us grounded in reality. Jack’s brother is the embodiment of all the hardships in Jack’s life... his brother is the reason for the dissolution of his marriage, and his brother is the barrier between Jack and his own son, Jason. That’s how Jack sees his brother, as an obstacle. And once Jack gets comfortable using his powers to make the world a better place, he thinks why shouldn’t I use my powers to remove that one hurdle in my own brother? But Jack discovers that whoever or whatever gave him his powers did not mean for them to be used for Jack’s own personal gratification. The powers were given so Jack could fulfill a promise he made…a promise to make the world a better place.

Trust the writer to say the emotional conflict and the artist to say the physical conflict. Speaking of the artist, that fight was one of the more impressive ones I've seen in years. Freddie Williams, where have you been hiding your bad self?

FW: Wow, thanks that’s quite a compliment! I haven’t been hiding intentionally; I’ve been trying to find my way out of the woods of obscurity. :) From my perspective, I haven't been doing anything different; just drawing my fat hands off for a few years now. It’s been hard for me to get anything published up until recently. I’ve still kept at it though. So the difference is that I’m finally getting some opportunities to get some work in print. In fact, just recently I was lucky enough to get a gig going at DC.

I’m really glad you liked the fight between Kaiser and the American, James and I wanted to give the fight as large of a scope as we could, so we brainstormed the idea of it going into “double page spread mode”, trying for a widescreen effect. I was wishing I had about 100 pages to portray the battle, because each impact of theirs should be as hard as a shot from the deck cannon of a battleship, or worse! So even if one of them were to parry (or block) a strike from the other, there should be massive amounts of collateral damage inflicted, just because of the kinetic force radiating out from the impact, so it would have been appropriate to have a huge panel, each time they collide. Both James and I are Marvel RPG geeks from way back, and it helped to think of things on that sort of power scale with these two hugely powered figures.

I made a deliberate effort to approach the fights in PROJECT EON, and LONEBOW with a different (weaker) mindset than with CHANCE, even though it looks cooler to have buildings collapsing from a strike, or glass flying everywhere, it would be inappropriate for that sort of thing to have happened in those other books.

JM: I’m glad I was not the only one amazed by Freddie’s work on this book. He is an amazing artist and storyteller. He brought so many amazing ideas, and so much realism to the whole book and it especially shows in the beautifully rendered fights with Kaiser.

This book ends with a promo for a book two of CHANCE OF A LIFETIME. Considering that this issue is self-contained, what do you see as the future of this title? How much do you plan to play with this concept? Is book two going to be another all in one story, or do you see this as having enough legs for an ongoing?

JM: We plan to continue the concept from the first book by having the powers that Jack possessed transferred to another man. Book two will be another self-contained story, but it will have some ties to the first book. My main concern for a sequel is to bring something different story wise. I do not want to repeat the plot, and any characterization from the first book. I really want the second person that gains the powers to react very differently than Jack. It’s my hope that the only thing that will carry over from the first book will be the sense of wonder.

FW: Yeah, book 2: James has some great ideas all laid out for that book. We have discussed this new guy (the star of book 2) surviving and having these powers right up until the modern day, in fact he makes cameo in MUTATION #3 (along with a bunch of other Chimaera Studio characters). As far as an ongoing with the new hero, I’d never say never, but that’s not the plan as it stands right now.

So what else are you guys working on, either separately or together? What sort of work would you want to do in the future?

FW: Well, I still have 2 more One-shots, LONEBOW and PROJECT EON, from Speakeasy comics coming out this year (2005).

Currently, I am drawing flashback stories in Image Comics' NOBLE CAUSES (and have been since issue 13). Also, I'm getting my feet wet over at DC, I have been lucky enough to finish the last 2 issues of the new SEVEN SOLDIERS: MISTER MIRACLE miniseries. Also, I'm illustrating a fill-in issue of AQUAMAN (issue 39)... hoping that this work from DC will keep snowballing, working for DC is a lifelong dream come true!

I'd love to work with James Mitchel in the future, though in a way we haven't stopped working together, we chat probably 3-4 times a week, and we're always giving each other feedback on whatever the other is working on.

JM: Coming up, Freddie and I worked on an eight page story for Cellar Door Publishing’s anthology benefit book for the West Memphis Three defense fund called, LOSS OF INNOCENCE. I am currently co-writing, with George Singley, SUPER-CRAZY TNT BLAST! over at Speakeasy comics. I am also about ready to start pitching a sci-fi/film noir story I wrote...I’m working with a fantastic artist, named Terence Chang, on the project and the pages he has done so far are amazing! In the future I hope to continue working in comics on as many different genres as I can, and I would love to work with Freddie as much as possible.

Thanks to James Mitchel and Freddie Williams for taking the time to talk to us. To take a look at a preview of CHANCE OF A LIFETIME, and even order your own copy, just head on over to

BOOM! Studios

BOOM! Studios continues to impress me with its entertaining line of comics. This week, Keith Giffen finishes up his introductory miniseries centering on relationships, love, capes, alternate realities, and complete world-destruction. I’ve been enjoying this miniseries in that it illustrates the differences between men and women and their views on relationships and the way they look at everyday life. It’s “He Said, She Said” in spandex and body armor. Both the hero and his ex-girlfriend/arch-nemesis have views that are vastly different and they’re not afraid to destroy the world around them as they battle it out. After successfully destroying their own alternate reality, Valor (the “hero” of the book) and his ex, Caliginous (great name for a baddie), venture into this plane to stop the same thing happening to this reality. Who is the bad guy and who is the good guy in this situation varies from whose perspective is being told at the moment. Is Valor just a “think first and ask questions later” dunderhead who destroyed the universe? Or was Caliginous just being a vengeful witch? It looks as if it was their relationship that really put the kibosh on their world. Meanwhile, this reality’s versions of these characters are having problems of their own. This series ends with foreboding vibes and leads into the HERO SQUARED ongoing series due out next year. It’s an extremely insightful allegory on relationships and the battle of the sexes. And it’s pretty funny to boot. - Ambush Bug


DIVISION SHADOW is one of those comics that this Indie Jones section is made for. It’s written by Patrick Meaney with art from three different artists. Each artist tells his own story that will interconnect as the series proceeds. The production values of this book may be crude (my copy was stapled off-center and some of the pages were longer than others), but that added to the preciousness of the book. This is an ambitious story involving politics, death, and conspiracy. Meaney seems to have big ideas and, for the most part, I was entertained by this book. Don’t expect Marvel or DC level looks here, folks, but from books like this one spring the high-profile creators of tomorrow. You can pick this one up on Meaney’s website. - Ambush Bug

Self Published

This story involves a tortured young lady who lives in the world of mirrors. She’s haunted by ghosts of her dead father and demons. There’s a priest who sports classic Damion Hellstorm devil hair horns and plenty of bloodshed. Although the plot may be a bit light, this story is rooted in urban legend and I have to admit I found myself enjoying the carnage when Mary lets loose on her hapless victims. The “crazy eye” effect Mary gets during her berserker rages is especially effective. Fans of Pulido’s EVIL ERNIE and LADY DEATH may want to take notice of this series. - Ambush Bug

Remember, if you have an Indie book you’d like one of the @$$holes to take a look at, click on your favorite reviewer’s link and drop us an email.

Readers Talkback
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  • Nov. 25, 2005, 3:39 a.m. CST


    by JustyHakubi

    Cool Jaws test thread!

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 4:34 a.m. CST

    What is going on with this column? There are surely more geek wo

    by silentbobafett2

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 5:39 a.m. CST

    Oh jesus. There are three sure fire winners at the top of this I

    by Silver_Joo

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 6:22 a.m. CST

    That Fantastic Four review...

    by alfiemoon

    ...was pretty self-indulgent and not much of a read for anyone who wants to find out more about the book. I can&#39;t help but feel that these novelty reviews are crowding out the good stuff which used to be in this column (and is still in part - the Thing review and the Prof.&#39;s own Superman review are great examples of strong comics journalism). Sorry to be negative, but this site is losing it as far as the comics coverage goes. Maybe a bi-weekly column would result in a better finished product?

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 6:54 a.m. CST

    Good AS-Superman review

    by InZodWeTrust

    I like how ya didn&#39;t stoop to the "Frank Miller and Jim Lee should take notes" bullshit that is plastered all over the web. Did anyone notive that after clark bumped into the guy on the street and knocked his newspaper, hat and stuff, in the next panel, its all neatly folded ina pile on ths sidewalk? This book is amazing.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 8:19 a.m. CST

    Nothing fell on the guy

    by AlgertMopper

    Nothing would have "fell" on the guy Clark bumped into. He would have gotten ran over. That was a muffler in the road. Then in the next panel, or so, the guy is yelling at the driver down the road at the car that it lost its muffler. Just saying is all

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 8:28 a.m. CST

    Gotta disagree there...

    by Louis Cyphre

    I think the muffler fell off the monorail, which (I think .. am vaguely remembering) was owned by LexCorp. Supes saves the day, foiling Lex Luthor&#39;s vile evil yet again...

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 8:39 a.m. CST

    RIP - Pat Morita

    by GrandMuffTarkin

    Arnold and Mr. Miyagi....great, funny asian actor.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 8:39 a.m. CST

    BREACH - Samer S#!+, Different Issue... and MORE!

    by Squashua

    For 11 issues, the entire series was too slow to progress. I&#39;d go into it more, but that&#39;s the way I feel. I hope Marvel knows what a gem it has with Dan Slott, the next-generation Keith Giffen. Frank Quietly DOES draw very ugly faces. So does John Byrne.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 8:42 a.m. CST

    Oh, and... the FF Review that I didn&#39;t bother to read...

    by Squashua

    It&#39;s not readable or worth my precious time to read. I will instead spend my precious time talking back about how unreadable it was and how precious my time is and how I&#39;m spending it talking back.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 8:44 a.m. CST

    You guys...a moment of silence please...Pat Morita has passed on

    by the_man_from_Rio

    seriously, i read it on breaking news at go check it out if you don

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 8:45 a.m. CST

    oops, should

    by the_man_from_Rio

    gues you already bad...still, pretty sad.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 8:51 a.m. CST

    Prof. Challenger- Some advice

    by DannyOcean01

    I imagine you don&#39;t get paid to do the comic reviews and I do appreciate you guys doing them because it&#39;s normally a joy to read. However, I also imagine it took you more than a moment to write that FF review. May I suggest doing a straight forward review that states a little more clearly the positives and negatives of the issue. That way you&#39;d have more time to maybe, review another comic entirely??

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 9:04 a.m. CST

    Squashua - that FF review...

    by alfiemoon

    If you&#39;re implying we haven&#39;t read it, why would you think such a thing? I read it. It&#39;s a borderline dechiperable piece of writing which does little more than enigmatically convey some of the events which occur in the issue. Where is the critique? Where is the discussion of the issue itself, its plot, its execution, its worth as a piece of art? The All-Star Supes and Thing review are great, well-written pieces on new comics. The FF one simply isn&#39;t, and its inclusion here taints the column.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 9:13 a.m. CST

    I thought it was a muffler too

    by The Heathen

    but I first thought it fell from the sky until the panel with the guy yelling at the car. Loved how the man&#39;s paper and such were folded neatly for him too. Best rendition of Clark I&#39;ve seen in ages, but as I&#39;ve said earlier, I think that Supes was drawn a little too big jawed/ugly faced up until they are performing his strength tests. Other than that, Miller and Lee, mainly Miller, should take notes. What? It&#39;s the god&#39;s to honest truth and I thought one of the @$$holes did say that, but just in case they didn&#39;t please reread what I just posted. *** As for the complaints? This was one of the better bunch of reviews columns I can remember and besides the FF one were all easy to read and well thought out. Especially the first three and the Fables catchup. Well done @$$es. The IC roundtable also portrayed what about ten or so reviewers thought both postive and negative and while it wasn&#39;t as funny as say, making fun of Luke Cages paper bag on his head in the HoM roundtable, it was a damn good roundtable. Besides, I thought the Power Girl boob jokes were in the review (not roundtable) of IC #2? And what&#39;s more &#39;geek-worthy&#39; than All Star Superman written by Morrison and drawn by Quitely? Sheesh, what was in some of y&#39;alls turkey yesterday? Where my Cogs at?

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 9:29 a.m. CST

    Next time put your reviews into haiku Prof. Challenger

    by Heywood Jablowme

    And then, just tell me if I should drop the 2 bucks & change for it. Which I can tell you right now I wouldn&#39;t as JMS is writing it. I will give Prof. his due on his Supes take. The art was consistent in that it wasn&#39;t consistent. Good story though, went straight into the action, and the real Lex Luthor is back! The hell? No Cheap Shots? Green Lantern 5 is pick-up worthy. Ultimate Spidey 86 should be trampled and burned for the blasphemous treatment of Omega Red. Damn you, Bendis!

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 9:31 a.m. CST

    GL #5 is defintely pick-up worthy

    by The Heathen

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 9:32 a.m. CST

    The FF review

    by sideshowbob

    I was hoping for a full-blown review as well, as I recently dropped it. But I guess "needs an editor" and "what a waste" likely sum it up anyway. For everyone complaining about JMS screwing with history and all that, I simply don&#39;t buy his books because I think he&#39;s a shitty writer. *** So, of course, Marvel puts him their two flagship titles, ASM & FF. The two books Dan Slott should be doing.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 9:58 a.m. CST

    For those worried about Kyle Rayner surviving IC

    by The Heathen *** This and an ongoing GL Corps may be a little to much in my opinion.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 10:03 a.m. CST

    I&#39;m sure JMS&#39;s FF is as incomprehensible as the review w

    by RealDoubleJ

    But since the film, the 4 just haven&#39;t been fantastic in their own comic. So tomorrow, AS Superman, Slott&#39;s &#39;The Thing&#39; and, the comic i&#39;m most interested in, Books of Doom are going to be picked up, hopefully splooged all over, and i&#39;ll be a very content comic book fan who&#39;ll treat bad writers like their own source material, "it never happened".

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 10:41 a.m. CST

    I definitely want more Slott

    by cromulent

    He&#39;s a clever writer and funny too. Definitely will pick up The Thing and I could see him write the FF and Spider-Man. And that FF review sucked.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 10:49 a.m. CST

    Morrison has stones of steel

    by Fantomex

    To put Superman&#39;s entire origin (which is really where all the good superman stories take place) on the very first page is gutsy. It ALMOST seemed like Morrison was saying "Look, I can make a kick ass superman story without starting from scratch." But he really can&#39;t say that, because the major aspect of his story so far is that Superman think he&#39;s dying, and that would just come off as stupid in the monthly. So he cheats a litte, but an enjoyable read.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 10:49 a.m. CST

    To Clairfy Something about FABLES

    by Solrider77

    First off I love the sereis FABLES and am glad to see it getting the spotlight on this site again. I just think I should clarify something real quick. Bigby left because because Snow White rejected him even after the birth of their cute liter of children. Snow&#39;s still hung up on the idea of being swept off her feet by a prince and despite the fact that she does love Bigby, she hasn&#39;t found it in her heart to throw off the prejudice of him being a not just a werewolf, but a commoner as well. But hope does spring eternal for these two since this is one of the few comics out there with a little something called REAL CHARACTER DEVELOPEMENT. What a concept hunh!

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 12:15 p.m. CST

    Alfiemoon - the FF Review

    by Squashua

    I wasn&#39;t implying that you hadn&#39;t read it; I was stating that I didn&#39;t and wasn&#39;t going to because just staring at it told me that I wouldn&#39;t gain anything out it it.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 1:03 p.m. CST

    by blackthought

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 1:03 p.m. CST


    by HiWayRobry

    Hey LemmiWinks &#39;trade-paced&#39; refers to the annoying habit of some writers to start the first couple of issues of a new story arc by dragging out the concept to make sure and have a 6-issue story that can easily be made into a trade paperback. It&#39;s a marketing ploy that has, unfortunately, become the norm for comics nowadays. BTW I enjoyed all the reviews. But that&#39;s because I have way too much time on my hands and enjoy reading anything with a moderate amount of entertainment value.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 3:46 p.m. CST

    Dear Professor Challenger;

    by JonQuixote

    Would you please review the current issue of FANTASTIC FOUR in the exact same way that everybody else does and in the exact same way that this column probably did last month and the month before that and the month before that and the month before that. Thank you.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 3:55 p.m. CST

    Squashua - FF review / Dear Professor Challenger;

    by alfiemoon

    Squashua: Sorry man, misunderstood that. / / / / / JonQuixote: if you&#39;re being sarcastic, you&#39;er misguided. Just because something is different doesn&#39;t mean it&#39;s better. Hell, why not write all your reviews in Turkish next week? At least it&#39;d be different to writing reviews "the exact same way that everybody else does"...

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 4:11 p.m. CST

    Just because something is different, doesn&#39;t mean it&#39;s b

    by JonQuixote

    But claims that the criticisms here are merely addressing the quality of the piece ring hollow when followed by whining for more of the same old, same old. Just because something is different doesn&#39;t mean it&#39;s bad either, and I&#39;d rather see intelligent criticism on what the review was rather than what somebody thinks it should be. Heck, I didn&#39;t think it was a great piece and I don&#39;t think it worked, but it is what it is. Whining about what you think it should be really just speaks to being confined by a dull paradigm and a dearth of imagination. Look to Heywood, who implores Challenger to tell him something he already knows. I&#39;m glad Prof had something a little more interesting in mind, even if it didn&#39;t exactly work.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 4:33 p.m. CST

    You really want to know what the plot of FF was?

    by Prof C

    Read the review. It&#39;s all in there. And the writing style is just as self-indulgently overwrought and insipidly pseudo-intelligent as the spew JMS "blessed" the comic buying public this week.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 4:36 p.m. CST

    John Q

    by Prof C

    Can&#39;t please all the people all the time. However, thanks for getting the fact that the rules regarding "how" each of us reviews is that there are no rules. Libertarianism, man. The wave of the future.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 4:38 p.m. CST


    by Prof C

    Whenever you get around to finally changing your login to something more accurate like, say, Ima Teabagger, then I might consider taking your advice.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 4:40 p.m. CST


    by Prof C

    Did you say the review was "self-indulgent"? Thank you. You got it. Now take that extra step Self-indulgent on purpose as a way to mock the self-indulgent writing of JMS himself.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 5:43 p.m. CST

    im usually one to chime in with a "great reviews guys"

    by Darth Kal-El

    but outside of the AS Superman i cant do that this week.and no cheap shots?!thats my favorite part of the reviews!

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 5:44 p.m. CST

    i liked the thing review too

    by Darth Kal-El

    sorry for any confusion

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 5:46 p.m. CST

    and really...

    by Darth Kal-El may be meant as mocking or whatever but the "gimmick" reviews tell us next to nothing about the book in question imo.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 6:09 p.m. CST

    Gone are the days...

    by The True Priapic

    ..that I cared about comics.The tragedy is I once was their greatest fan.Its a bit like an ex-smoker.They&#39;re the worst critics of smokers.I&#39;m afraid i feel that the characters that Lee,Kirby,Ditko et al are not the ones I used to know.Therefore,I couldn&#39;t be arsed buying them.The FF are noe alien to me,I used to adore them.The Byrne days were when I last &#39;tuned in&#39;.Sometimes i think,"Priapic,you&#39;ve just grown up!Leave these childish things to the past!" but it&#39;s more complex than that.I just don&#39;t know or care for these characters any more.I care more for the movie Peter Parker than the comic.I sadly,through fanboy want,bought the FF movie here in China in the hope that it might not be as shit as I remember but its just AWFUL.God,I used to love the Thing.And to anyone thinking I&#39;m an old fuddyduddy...I fucking hated the old Thing series with him on another planet after the Secret Wars.God that was pants.Sorry,but its over for me.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 8:09 p.m. CST

    by blackthought

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 8:47 p.m. CST

    i couldnt have said it better myself blackthought

    by Darth Kal-El

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 8:57 p.m. CST


    by The Heathen

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 9:53 p.m. CST


    by Thalya

    Even more OYL craziness, Heathen. Giffen IS writing a new Blue Beetle. Also, Supergirl is Andromeda, maybe?

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 9:58 p.m. CST

    I just tell it like it is Prof. Apparently I&#39;m not the only

    by Heywood Jablowme

    And Jon-boy, I read the review hoping that maybe this JMS book would be worth picking up. Should I bother dropping some bank on this? I usually give the @ssholes some credit when it comes to picking up new books. If it wasn&#39;t for the @ssholes (Sleazy G is the Man), I wouldn&#39;t have picked up Titans when Johns hopped on board. So the reviews are, believe it or not, helpful in broadening the audience if said review is worth a damn. In this case the cutesy-ass prose doesn&#39;t fly. I&#39;m a comic geek, not so much a sonnet geek. And as far as JMS goes, I&#39;m not adverse to EVERYTHING he does. Hell, I love Supreme Power and Rising Stars when it first came out, but I can&#39;t abide what he&#39;s done with Spidey and that lame Neo, errrr, Dr. Strange run. So there.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 10:09 p.m. CST

    And another thing, you&#39;re dissing my handle, Prof?

    by Heywood Jablowme

    Dang man, I&#39;ve had this thing for years. I&#39;m kind of attached to it. As a matter of fact Kevin Smith complimented me on it a few weeks back in that first tirade he had with the Talkbackers. I wear fact that with a badge of honor. I even entered it in my blog and went upstairs and told my mom about it. She told me she was proud; and that not many 30-year olds could lay claim to that, following that with "take out the trash, move the hell out of the basement and find a fucking job". I&#39;m doing that right after this. And the Bond marathon on Spike. Late.

  • Nov. 25, 2005, 11:42 p.m. CST

    They should do a Shinobi comic!

    by Neo Zeed

    For personal reasons. goofy post now over, Zeed OUT

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 5:17 a.m. CST

    All-Star Superman was disappointing

    by Rupee88

    Art was uneven and writing was pedestrian...I am not impressed.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 6:42 a.m. CST

    AS Superman was the best and the art...

    by DrLektor

    ...was ugly / beautiful. Strange as it seems I think Frank&#39;s style has actually improved. maybe it&#39;s the digital colouring but it shone. It is kinda nice not to see every character as a supermodel, Jim Lee *should* take notes because Alfred the butler isn&#39;t Clark Gable, even heroes have funny chins and Scott Summers is as skinny as a rake. We can relate better, savvy? And Prof C? Should I buy this months FF? I don&#39;t understand.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 9:37 a.m. CST


    by Prof C

    Buy it if you want to be disappointed.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 9:52 a.m. CST

    Question to all - why the hate for JMS?

    by ComputerGuy68

    Been on other review sites and his stuff is liked there unlike say Howard Mackie. So why the hate here?

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 10:19 a.m. CST

    i third myself

    by blackthought

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 10:58 a.m. CST

    I&#39;ll tell you why the hate for JMS, ComputerGuy: his "Sins P

    by Heywood Jablowme

    That pretty much sums it up.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 11:17 a.m. CST

    So because he had Gwen screw Norman Osborn...

    by ComputerGuy68

    you hate the guy? Let me get this straight - a chick gets seduced by an older guy with power AND money and has sex with him. Gee, like THAT NEVER happens in the real world!!! If there is so much hate for JMS because of that

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 11:20 a.m. CST

    Sorry if I sounded harsh PLEASE tell me that there is more to it

    by ComputerGuy68

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 11:46 a.m. CST

    It showed a complete disregard for a beloved character. And it

    by littleknownfax

    When JMS created his convoluted backstory for the twins, he mangled Gwen&#39;s character. She&#39;s NOT a generic younger woman who was seduced by an older man. She was Gwen Stacy. Simply put, her character would NEVER do that. Also, it retroactively changed the REASON why the Green Goblin went after Gwen. It is so much "cleaner" when the Goblin goes after Gwen because he knows Spider-Man&#39;s secret identity and is going after HIM by threatening that which he loves. That is a good story-- a mythic story. By adding these layers of convoluted backstory, JMS weakened the simplicity and focus of one of the BEST stories in Spider-Man&#39;s long history. JMS is a bad Spider-Man writer because instead of telling GOOD NEW Spider-Man stories, he is retroactively going back, changing, and HURTING old ones. The spider-totem? Please! That messes with the origins of Spider-Man. What Stan Lee created was nice and simple: A boy bitten by a radio-active spider. Why mess with that! Why not just go FORWARD and tell GOOD, NEW stories? (Don&#39;t even get me started about how JMS has now tampered with the FF&#39;s origin and the "cause" for how the cosmic rays affected them!) At least with Mackie, most of his stories can be ignored and forgotten. Once JMS finally leaves, someone will have to go back and FIX his mistakes and missteps. So what characters NEW characters has JMS introduced into the Spider-Man line that are NOT tied into his wrong-headed spider-totem crap? A Hulk knockoff that was built from dead gangsters. A Doctor Octopus knockoff. The Gray Goblin, a Green Goblin knockoff. Anybody else? He&#39;s a bad Spider-Man writer. Oh, and don&#39;t forget the 9-11 issue of ASM. Kingpin, Doctor Doom, and Magneto standing around Ground Zero, feeling sad. That wasn&#39;t just bad, that was borderline offensive. Then there&#39;s his penchant for sticking Doctor Strange in every other story. If he wants to write Doctor Strange, he should just write Doctor Strange. I could keep going, but you get the point. There are MANY reasons to dislike JMS&#39; run on Spider-Man.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 12:07 p.m. CST

    Yeah, it&#39;s not that the seduction in SINS PAST wasn&#39;t pl

    by JonQuixote

    It&#39;s that it was mean-spirited, ugly, and as "littleknownfax" said ultimately devalued (or at least fundamentally changed) probably the most loved & respected Spidey story out there. It turned Gwen into a bad girlfriend and it took her death away from the horrific randomness that made it so notable for Peter. And for what? A dopey story about cloned children that might be Pete&#39;s? Goofy even by comic book standards. *** I think JMS is a very talented and knowledgeable writer, but his storytelling instincts were way off and his defense of the story against critics was aggressive, purposely ignorant and unlikable. I dropped ASM like a hot potato after that, and the bad taste in my mouth contributed to the dropping ALL my monthlies.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 12:31 p.m. CST

    Wait, I forgot...

    by littleknownfax

    ...he ALSO created a Molten Man knockoff. Look, I think the set-up of Peter as a teacher in his old high school is a good one. I think the way JMS writes Spider-Man/Peter Parker&#39;s dialogue and HOW he acts are good. I also like how he portrays MJ and Aunt May. But the foundations that he builds that on are not just BAD, they&#39;re detrimental to the character of Spider-Man and his history. He doesn&#39;t add to Spider-Man&#39;s future, as much as he changes and tacks on things to Spider-Man&#39;s past. I would rather see someone like Kirkman on the book.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 12:38 p.m. CST

    Still don&#39;t buy the Gwen concept...

    by ComputerGuy68

    a female is a female and are pretty predicable. Anyway, I thought that the totem thing was just a way for Ezekiel to remain alive and sacrifice Peter in his place. I have not touched a Spider-Man comic in over 25 years and jumped in on issue #515 and the New Avengers and The Other Series. I like what I have seen, but I don

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 12:54 p.m. CST

    That argument doesn&#39;t hold water. Heck, Marvel let Mackie n

    by littleknownfax

    "A female is a female and are pretty predictable." Wow! Earlier you were saying this place is "filled with virgins". Well, with an attitude like that, you&#39;re not going to end up with anyone but a doormat that&#39;ll have you. Good luck on the "soul mate" front. Sheesh! I guess Paris Hilton, Oprah, Mother Theresa, and Mia Hamm are all in the same boat then? And the totem thing was JMS re-writing Spider-Man&#39;s origin, explaining that maybe the spider didn&#39;t give Peter spider-powers BECAUSE it was radioactive, but DESPITE the fact that it was radioactive. According to JMS, this was a quasi-mystical spider that linked Peter to the spider-totem-- and is one of the main reasons that so many of his enemies have animal-based powers. Lame! BTW, if you don&#39;t recall Gwen Stacy, you really are missing out on the Golden Age of Spider-Man comics: the Lee/Romita Sr. years. Maybe you should pick up some of the SPIDER-MAN ESSENTIALS or the DVD-ROM collection? That run is head and shoulders above the JMS run. I think the biggest plus the JMS run had going for it was art by John Romita Jr. I think ANYONE could&#39;ve written the book with JR JR drawing it and it would&#39;ve sold well. Remember, even the Howard Mackie issues drawn by JR JR sold extremely well.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 1:02 p.m. CST

    by ComputerGuy68

    I too have enjoyed how JMS portrays Peter/Spider-Man; he should do his dialogue for the films. I guess I don

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 1:12 p.m. CST

    I agree with you. He writes a good Peter/Spider-Man. I just wi

    by littleknownfax

    The Spider-Man stories of old are GOOD stories. I really wish that JMS would just pick up the ball and start playing-- instead of going back and re-writing the rules. Stories can be BOTH welcoming to newcomers AND respectful of the past. There&#39;s NO NEED to go back and tack things on to the origin, or rewrite the past-- having beloved characters act OUT OF CHARACTER.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 1:13 p.m. CST

    Haven&#39;t read JMS&#39; AMS or FF

    by El Vale

    But i do think they sound very self indulgent. Why would you want to go mess with Spider Man&#39;s origin? Why would you want to mess with the FF origin? First of all, it&#39;s Lee, Ditko and fucking Kirby...the geeks will have your balls on a plate. Second, who&#39;d want to do that, really? "But what you didn&#39;t know is..." What makes JMS think he could tell that story? Hate to say it cause it sounds awful @$$holish of me, but i think it&#39;s lack of editorial guidence too. Marvel doesn&#39;t have the balls to tell a big shot like JMS what stories he can&#39;t tell. Guy&#39;s a good writer, some guidence would only help make his comics better.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 1:14 p.m. CST


    by ComputerGuy68

    I stand by my statement that this place IS filled with a bunch of Virgins, Male one to be more accurate. Only they would think of women as being so virtuous, try living with one for several years and come back to me. And don

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 1:19 p.m. CST

    With JMS it&#39;s probably an ego thing...

    by ComputerGuy68

    since he didn&#39;t create it he wants to leave a mark on it. El Vale is correct, the editor should reel him in on the origin stuff. Tail wagging the dog? Of course look at what almost happened to Superman...

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 1:22 p.m. CST


    by John Dalmas

    Can somebody really tell me, in a clear, concise manner, what the plot of the current FF is? I read the review, and I think I got some of the concepts, but it&#39;s too vague and I really, really don&#39;t want to buy the issue. However, if the plot points alluded to are really true, I think it bears a summary just because it sounds so titanically wrong-headed and disrespectful. So, please, if anybody&#39;s read it, tell me how it goes. And don&#39;t say read the review. For the record, on the whole, revealing new, &#39;untold&#39; aspects of a character&#39;s past is really writing that is bereft of imagination on the whole. Can&#39;t tell a good new story, so I&#39;ll fuck with an old story and pass it off as a new story. This, I think, has been the single most disturbing comics trend over the last ten years (did Spider-Clone start all that?)

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 1:22 p.m. CST

    Who&#39;s Howard Mackie?

    by El Vale

    Also "And the totem thing was JMS re-writing Spider-Man&#39;s origin, explaining that maybe the spider didn&#39;t give Peter spider-powers BECAUSE it was radioactive, but DESPITE the fact that it was radioactive. According to JMS, this was a quasi-mystical spider that linked Peter to the spider-totem-- and is one of the main reasons that so many of his enemies have animal-based powers." Is that it, really? Cause it sounds horrible!

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 1:25 p.m. CST

    Women are people. Not all people are virtuous. But during her

    by littleknownfax

    You seem to be lumping Gwen (a character you&#39;ve admitted that you haven&#39;t read about) in with "women". As someone who grew up in a house filled with women-- and someone who&#39;s been living with their girlfriend for over two years, I&#39;m puzzled how you can think of all women as being non-virtuous. You do know that there ARE virtuous people out there, right? Well, the way Gwen was portrayed throughout her run-- she WAS a virtuous person. That didn&#39;t mean that she was stuck as a one-note character. Her feelings for both Peter and Spider-Man went through LOTS of changes over the years. She grew as a character and was fully-fleshed out. If you HAD read stories about Gwen, you would know that JMS completely dropped the ball with the way he portrayed her in SINS PAST. Characters have to stay IN character. You should never see a story where Superman spits on an orphan, the Human Torch kicks a puppy, or Gwen Stacy sleeps with Norman Osborn. It&#39;s that simple. And while people DO change-- their pasts DON&#39;T. Gwen&#39;s history was written. It shouldn&#39;t have been re-written.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 1:28 p.m. CST

    Superman spits on an orphan

    by El Vale

    Sounds great, very All Star Batman! *Ptui!*

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 1:40 p.m. CST

    littleknownfax - Ah the innocents of youth, you will learn

    by ComputerGuy68

    hope you have a lawyer...

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 1:42 p.m. CST

    Correction: Innocence of youth...

    by ComputerGuy68

    really need an editor on this site.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 1:47 p.m. CST

    ComputerGuy68, I hope you&#39;re not too set in your sad, misgui

    by littleknownfax realize that not all women are gonna screw you over. Maybe you need to get out more and get exposed to more PEOPLE with the XX chromosome. I think if you treat &#39;em all like b*tches, then b*tches is what you&#39;re gonna get.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 1:51 p.m. CST

    Is ComputerGuy68 really...

    by vroom socko

    Dave Sim? You never know, comics pros read this stupid stuff all the time, so it MIGHT be...

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 2:01 p.m. CST

    I know, it&#39;s creepy.

    by littleknownfax

    He&#39;s talking about "women" as if they all come out of one mold, their brains are all wired the same way, and they all have the same basic nature. I think we can all agree that there&#39;s a world of difference between Joan of Arc and Lindsay Lohan-- between Condoleezza Rice and Jenna Jameson-- between the failed suicide bomber from Jordan and Dakota Fanning. Every woman-- every PERSON-- is different, with different attributes, personalities, and personal codes of conduct. There ARE virtuous women/people out there-- that&#39;s just so damn obvious it shouldn&#39;t have to be said. If ComputerGuy68 has reached a point in his life where he thinks EVERY woman can change SO much than ANY virtuous woman can become an UN-virtuous woman-- that says more about HIM and his life-experiences than it EVER says about women as a whole.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 2:10 p.m. CST

    Trust me, you don&#39;t want to get into this with me...

    by ComputerGuy68

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Computer Guy, does your girl (assuming you have one) know that y

    by Heywood Jablowme

    Go upstairs and tell her that one. And after she laughs in your face and cuts you off (assuming you get any) for the next year, go pick up the early ASM trades that feature Gwen Stacy and re-affirm the fact that JMS doesn&#39;t "get" the history behind the book. It would be like Alfred having a go with Two-Face (which we&#39;ll probably see in All-Star Batman & Robin #6).

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 2:15 p.m. CST


    by littleknownfax

    Yeah, right. Look, I&#39;m just words on a computer screen to you. And vice-versa. Gimme a break. What next? You&#39;re gonna tell me to step out of my monitor and take it outside? Don&#39;t want to get into this? Hey, you were the one who called everyone who disagreed with you a virgin. Please.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 2:39 p.m. CST

    why am i...

    by blackthought

    getting a moviemack type vibe from compguy?

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 2:43 p.m. CST

    Lindsay Lohan: The new Joan of Arc

    by El Vale

    You never know what form these talkbacks are gonna take, unless the cogs are in command...then it&#39;s all about anal sex and creepy cage innuendo.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 2:59 p.m. CST

    *rattles her bars*

    by Thalya

    Y&#39;know, I&#39;m still in here.. *** And Compguy, sweet shy girls get dumped too.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 3 p.m. CST


    by ComputerGuy68

    Not calling everyone here a virgin because they disagree with me, I am just surprised at the naivety shown here. Let me state again PEOPLE CHANGE. The way you are going on about Gwen Is like she is the Virgin Mary. I must find the TPB to read up on her, (where does she first show up?) PEOPLE DO DUMB THINGS

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 3:05 p.m. CST

    Part 2

    by ComputerGuy68

    On the whole people are easy to figure out, I find women quite easy to understand. I grew up with four sisters. Oh and Heywood, my wife (of five years) is always telling me that I know her too well. It makes life less complicated, once you figure them out since most will never tell you directly what

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 3:19 p.m. CST

    Gwen first appears in AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #31 (though, chronologi

    by littleknownfax

    Yes, people DO change-- when they&#39;re still alive and have the freedom to do so. As a character, Gwen died in AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #121-122, in one of the most powerful and moving Spider-Man stories ever told. In the eight plus years she appeared in ASM, Gwen behaved and acted in a specific way. When JMS wrote SINS PAST, he was trying to capitalize off of her legacy-- but by writing a story that had her doing something SO out of character, he took AWAY from that legacy. Yes, people do dumb things. That&#39;s part of life. But when people DO those dumb things, they do so in a manner that is IN their character. Sleeping with Harry&#39;s father was NOT in Gwen&#39;s character. There was NOTHING in her personal history that would lead us to believe that she was even CAPABLE of doing something like that. It would be like finding out that Uncle Ben was sleeping with MJ&#39;s Aunt Anna on the side. COULD someone write that story? Sure. Would it sell? Yeah. And I&#39;m sure if John Romita JR. drew it, it&#39;d sell a ton of copies. But it would be a BAD story, it would be OUT of character for Uncle Ben. And the writer of that story would be a total hack.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 3:26 p.m. CST

    "It makes life less complicated, once you figure them out since

    by littleknownfax

    Kudos, apparently you have the magic decoder ring that allows you to "figure THEM out." Oh those deceptive women. We never shoulda&#39; let &#39;em vote or drive cars. &#39;Cause you know they&#39;re a deceptive species. Always sayin&#39; one thing but thinkin&#39; another. An&#39; wearin&#39; alla&#39; that frilly lace. An&#39; jumpin&#39; up on them thar tables whenever they see a mouse run by. Jesus. Please let your wife (of five years) read all the stupid cr@p you&#39;ve written today on this thread. &#39;Less of course you&#39;re a fearin&#39; she might hit you on yer head with her rolling pin!

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 3:38 p.m. CST many times in the news...

    by ComputerGuy68

    did they have a story about someone who goes on a murder spree and everyone says "he/she is such a nice person, this is so not like them"? JMS should have used the son not the father, (of course not done it at all is seems) But did you see the 37 y/o woman in the news who married some 15 y/o kid who got her pregnant? Weird shit happens all the time. It just seems that JMS is getting a lot of flack over this but other writers don&#39;t get the same hostility. Thanks for the info btw, more to add to the collection...

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 3:44 p.m. CST


    by ComputerGuy68

    Time to take the rose coloured glasses off. Do you live in a bubble? Ask ten guys what one of their beefs is with their wife/girlfriend, nine of them will be that they have to play 20 questions just to find out what they want. Hell half of the stand-up routines (when talking about relationships) make some kind of joke about it.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 3:46 p.m. CST

    Exactly what have I said that is "stupid cr@p"

    by ComputerGuy68

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 3:47 p.m. CST


    by ComputerGuy68

    is moviemack the guy always screaming about batman? if so, how do I sound like him?

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 3:52 p.m. CST

    And if she did hit me with a rolling pin I would have her charge

    by ComputerGuy68

    Violence against men is just as wrong as it is against women and childeren. The more people realize that the better.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 3:54 p.m. CST

    correction: children

    by ComputerGuy68

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 3:54 p.m. CST

    By that line of thinking, all bets are off.

    by littleknownfax

    By that logic, Aunt May can go on a murder spree. Or Peter can start beating his wife. Or Mary Jane can get in a car and start driving into random pedestrians. I mean, we wouldn&#39;t see THAT coming-- and, oh, wouldn&#39;t it be JUST like real life? No. It would be sloppy, sensationalistic writing. It would be a disservice to the characters and their history. It would be BAD writing. Gwen was a nice person. And while she may have had a date or two with fellow classmate, Flash Thompson, to make Pete jealous-- or maybe because they&#39;d broken up for an issue or two-- she would NEVER sleep with Harry Osborn&#39;s father. Never, ever, ever. It&#39;s bad writing. I feel that once you start actually reading about Gwen, the character, and stop treating her as one of these generic women you keep talking about, you&#39;ll come around. And once you get up to ASM #121-122, you&#39;ll see what a powerful story that is-- and how JMS&#39; SINS PAST storyline weakens it and p*sses all over it. Some stories should be left alone. I&#39;m sure a lot of readers might find it really COOL if it were revealed that the burglar who shot Uncle Ben was really... the Red Skull! But in the end, that would complicate and muddy a perfect story. This Gwen Stacy/Norman Osborn cr@p really hurts the simplistic, mythic qualities of a great story of old-- all in the service of a mediocre modern day one. And, as I&#39;ve said in previous posts-- this is not the ONLY time JMS has done something like this to Peter/Spider-Man&#39;s past. I just wish he would leave the past alone and tell GOOD, NEW stories that move the Spider-Man saga FORWARD, instead of reconsctructing the past.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 3:58 p.m. CST

    Hey Cog$...

    by Thalya

    Is it Emergency Batsuit time?

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 3:58 p.m. CST

    "Hell half of the stand-up routines (when talking about relation

    by littleknownfax

    ...which is why Asians are terrible drivers. Black people like fried chicken. And Jews like me won&#39;t pick up a check. You win. Stand up comics agree with your backwards views on women. Way to go.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 4:04 p.m. CST

    Why has hollywood ignored this story with Gwen?

    by ComputerGuy68

    It looks to be as almost as important as Uncle Ben

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 4:07 p.m. CST

    You probably get more truths in stand-up than you do in the news

    by ComputerGuy68

    And not all of it is pretty.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 4:08 p.m. CST


    by JonQuixote

    I&#39;m loving the show here. ComputerGuy projecting his girl-troubles onto all women, real and fictitious. Ah the dangers of using anecdotal evidence to create generalization. Sort of like me saying, in my experience, I&#39;ve never been screwed over by a girl, thus all girls are Gwen Stacy-esque paragons of virtue. And those guys who have been screwed over by women, well it&#39;s usually because they didn&#39;t know how to keep them happy (nudge nudge wink wink). So it must be true! Happy Misogyny, ComputerDude. At least you come by it honestly.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 4:19 p.m. CST

    Hollywood didn&#39;t ignore it. They made a movie about it. It

    by littleknownfax

    The Green Goblin, knowing Spider-Man&#39;s secret identity, kidnaps Spider-Man&#39;s girlfriend and takes her to the top of a bridge. That&#39;s ASM #121-122. It&#39;s just that in those issues the girlfriend is named "Gwen Stacy" and the outcome is more downbeat. When Hollywood adapts stories from other works-- fiction and non-fiction-- it often combines and/or changes characters. This was the case of SPIDER-MAN. Also, there was input from Marvel Comics. It was in Marvel&#39;s best interest that the love interest in the movie-- and the cartoons of the time-- reflected the love interest that was currently appearing in the comics. This way potential new readers would not be confused. Also, there&#39;s "revisiting" a story and showing it to you from a different angle. This CAN be done well. A case in point is the modern day novel GRENDEL, which retells the legend of Beowulf from the monster&#39;s point of view. In comics, Alan Moore&#39;s THE KILLING JOKE does an excellent job of retelling the CLASSIC Batman story about The Red Hood. In both of these cases, the author&#39;s PLAY FAIR WITH THE SOURCE MATERIAL. They craft elegant tales where, while we may see new wrinkles and facets to a character, the characters remain IN CHARACTER. This is NOT the case with JMS&#39; portrayal of Gwen Stacy in SINS PAST. Gwen&#39;s actions are horribly OUT OF CHARACTER. Once you actually read the original stories with Gwen, I&#39;m sure you&#39;ll agree. JMS botched it. As far as Bucky/The Winter Solider arc in Brubaker&#39;s CAPTAIN AMERICA-- no, I don&#39;t have a problem with that. Brubaker builds a strong case for how Bucky becomes the Winter Soldier and how it is possible given WHO Bucky is, and what the bad guys have done to him. Hell, even the Red Skull hypnotized Captain America into becoming an assassin for a while (in the Stan & Jack issues where we finally learned the origin of the Red Skull). The difference? They played fair. If JMS had written a scene where the Goblin has pulled out some kind of hypno-ray and zapped Gwen-- then, maybe I could&#39;ve bought it! But the way he executed that story was poor, sloppy, and out of character. It was BAD writing.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 4:21 p.m. CST

    Projection, Misogyny? I think not

    by ComputerGuy68

    Misogyny has got nothing to do with it, and believe it or not (and frankly I don

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 4:26 p.m. CST

    "I love women, the way they look, smell, taste, well you get the

    by littleknownfax

    What strange biological organisms this "women" things must be to you. Oh, if only they acted more like human beings...

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 4:27 p.m. CST

    littleknownfax, you made your points clear on Gwen - Thank You..

    by ComputerGuy68

    Damn it, I want to read it now!

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 4:29 p.m. CST

    "I am talking about how in general men today get screwed in our

    by littleknownfax


  • Nov. 26, 2005, 4:36 p.m. CST

    nope, not a white guy so I get it even harder

    by ComputerGuy68

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 4:38 p.m. CST

    Ah, but you know who gets it even HARDER? Women of color. Nuff

    by littleknownfax

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 4:41 p.m. CST

    Oh, how so? Tell me how bad women have it in our society...

    by ComputerGuy68

    cue harp strings

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 4:55 p.m. CST

    This is great

    by El Vale

    I have a thought, let&#39;s hope i don&#39;t generalize too much lest i get shot in the face or something: Women are hard to please. You may think hey...i&#39;m a romantic guy, i have decent sized penis and sense of rythm...i have no problem in that department, but boy i wish it were as simple as that. I wasn&#39;t willing to "please" my girlfriend and give her everything she wanted out of me because i think "pleasing women" is either bullshit or we broke up. Equality? I don&#39;t think we want that...we&#39;re perfectly willing to adapt ourselves to the common notion that men have to do all sorts of crazy shit to please women, not only to make them fall in love with you, but to KEEP them that way, while all women have to do is have breasts and genitals. When debating this with my friend, she tells me "We like it when men make us feel important". Maybe she&#39;s generalizing as well and not all women are like that (yes indeed some of them are lesbians), but you can&#39;t argue the fact that intrinsic differences between men and women do exist and both genders follow distinct and similar behavioral paths. It&#39;s genetic. So yeah that&#39;s my rant, your turn to call me a misogynist.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 4:57 p.m. CST

    Women&#39;s pay is 68% to 74% less than men&#39;s...

    by littleknownfax

    ...women are represented less in ALL branches of government and the judiciary then men-- in a time when the inequalities in women&#39;s pay are not adressed-- in a time when MEN are trying to pass legislation telling women what they can do with their own bodies. There are less college scholarships awarded to women then men. Women face more sexual assaults than men. There is a greater chance of a girl being sexually assaulted before they reach puberty than boys. There is a greater chance of incest being performed on girls than boys. There are more women then men who have their spouses attack them-- who have their spouses abandon them-- and leave them with children to support. And when we expand this to include foreign countries-- you have cases in Middle Eastern territories where women can be stoned for minor offenses. Where some women are not allowed to attend schools at all. Where women are not permitted to drive. Where women must remain covered at all times when out in public. Where problems between men of opposing families can be solved by the raping of the other family&#39;s daughters. And the list goes on. But if you want to make cute jokes about harp strings, please go ahead. Be an @ss.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 5:02 p.m. CST

    wait, wait

    by John Dalmas

    Suspend the dialogue of sexual-politics long enough to cogently explain to me what happens in the Fantastic Four issue. Please. Somebody.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 5:07 p.m. CST

    no problem John Dalmas got to run to the store anyway...

    by ComputerGuy68

    gives littleknownfax more time to study his "Womyns&#39; Studies" books.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 5:16 p.m. CST


    by Thalya

    Emergency Batsuits at the ready! blackthought, you&#39;re with me on this, right?

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 5:24 p.m. CST

    i am thalya...

    by blackthought

    and fellow countryman, thank you for the it&#39;s my turn to rant about women...and so it begins...women are different...that is all.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 5:27 p.m. CST

    Laugh it off, Computerguy. Doesn&#39;t stop it from being true.

    by littleknownfax

    Please, let your wife (of five years) read all the stupid cr@p you&#39;ve said about women on this thread. Or, maybe you&#39;ll just go back to "smelling" and "tasting" them.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 6 p.m. CST


    by El Vale

    "Women are different" WHOA THERE, you misogynist pig!!!

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 6:34 p.m. CST

    That&#39;s my blackthought...

    by Thalya

    Would you let me out of the cage? I&#39;ll bake you banana bread.. Or maybe pumpkin spice? And does anyone think that Brainiac-13&#39;s gonna rear his ugly head sometime soon in IC #3 or what might happen if the seven stars that are holding parts of Onimar Synn might go nova and simultaneously release Synn and Eclipso and how that relates to Synn&#39;s control over the undead, the many back-from-the-dead members of the Big 7, that Morrison JLA story where the big bad was probability and 7s and which hinged on the Atom (7th member of the satellite league), and how alot of the minis running into IC had groups of 6 or briefly, 7... hmmm..

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 6:42 p.m. CST

    If littleknownfax&#39; statistics are correct...

    by El Vale

    Women get dick. Truly the short end of the stick. Thalya, i&#39;m sure we&#39;d all appreciate your insight on the subject, but once again all we get is IC stuff...come on girl!!!***Vale signs off for now as he&#39;s going out with one of them Womenz creatures he keeps hearing about. He&#39;ll chime in later.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 6:50 p.m. CST

    I don&#39;t know if you&#39;re referring to me, Vale

    by JonQuixote

    I&#39;d like to think that you&#39;re not and that I&#39;m missing the joke. But there&#39;s a difference between saying "women are different" and saying that if you live with a woman you won&#39;t find her virtuous for very long, that if you trust her you&#39;d better get a lawyer, and similar sentiments. That&#39;s misogyny. Anyway, if you weren&#39;t referring to my post and you&#39;re not so dumb as to misunderstand my point, apologies for *my* misunderstanding.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 7:23 p.m. CST

    My take?

    by Thalya

    Women are different, and personally, I&#39;m different from women (hence the mingling of traditional barefoot-in-the-kitchenness with thwap-the-boys-with-my-knowledge ubergeekery). I have no idea what the hell I am. The statistics I think are bull, anyway. Those kinds of stats are aggregate anyway. They don&#39;t take into account the actual female population that works first of all: it includes the percentage of women who choose to be housewives or stay-at-home moms (and therefore earn zip), so of course averaging out all women, the women&#39;s rate compared to men is going to be lower. Furthermore, those women who choose to be stay-at-home moms for a few years necessarily slow down the rate at which they accrue raises (concordant with the amount of experience they accrue), which also affects the different earnings rates between the sexes. There are fewer women in government and judiciaries...have you considered asking what these women want? Maybe they don&#39;t want to make the sacrifice of time to devote to a career and thereby limit that which they could devote to other pursuits, including family. Maybe they just plain aren&#39;t interested. You&#39;re apt to find more of them in lower levels of the bureacracy, however. Fewer college scholarships are awarded to women than men on a percentage basis because more women are going to college (if a college admits 600 women and 500 men and grants scholarships to 100 of each then 1/6th of women get &#39;ships compared to 1/5th of men. DON&#39;T MESS WITH A MATH MAJOR! ESPECIALLY A FEMALE ONE!). Men passing legislation telling what women can and cannot do with their bodies? How about them passing legislation saying it ain&#39;t the federal gov&#39;t&#39;s business supplying taxpayer money to support it one way or the other and it&#39;s an issue best left to the states and local communities instead of force-feeding a one-size-fits-all decision that has no explicit grounds in the Constitution one way or the other? Islamic culture is a thing unto itself furthermore, it&#39;s totally outside the basis for this discussion to begin with. Oh, and: "Women&#39;s pay is 68% to 74% less than men&#39;s.." 1) ROTFLMAO!!! I think you meant to say "68% to 74% OF men&#39;s" 2) If you&#39;re a guy, here I thought women were the irrational sex. 3) If you&#39;re a gal, way to prove the stereotype, dudette!

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 7:40 p.m. CST

    Thalya am I coming off as misogynic? Have I stated or implied an

    by ComputerGuy68

    If it seems that way, sorry, you got it wrong. Oh, in no way is this finished. More to come later. Off to cook dinner, (yes me) I&#39;m the better cook so my wife enjoys home cooked meals made by me, and she cleans up the dishes. I think that&#39;s fair...

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 7:46 p.m. CST

    sorry guys..

    by Darth Kal-El

    ...i just saw the cog signal and got here as soon as i could! whats been going on?oh...oh...all that?wow ok*throws on emergency batsuit*vale meant blackthought Jon Q and if i read correctly i think all the so far assembled cogs are taking a stance of utter shock at compguys statements.i know i am.***mmm banana bread! blackthougt le thalya out so she can bake!

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 7:54 p.m. CST

    It Turns Out 100% OF WOMEN JUST LOVE MY DICK.

    by buster00

    It&#39;s true. Look it up. It was in "True Adventures of My Dick" #&#39;s 8-12, the DEFINITIVE ORIGIN STORY of my dick. The story AND the art were fuckin&#39; awesome.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 7:55 p.m. CST

    My take, pt 2

    by Thalya

    1) Never said you were misogynistic, CG. Look at my post, not actually replying to anything you wrote. 2) If anything, you might believe just a touch too much in negative cliches for some people&#39;s tastes. 3) I happen to agree with you that women get away with plenty of stuff that they otherwise shouldn&#39;t, but so do guys. 4) Total equality isn&#39;t the answer. Just let people act according to their gender, but make sure compromise and give-and-take is part of the equation. The masculine and feminine shouldn&#39;t be at loggerheads with each other, they compliment each other. There&#39;s a way in which guys acting masculine and girls acting feminine allows both guy and gal to let each other know each thinks the other is important. And if it isn&#39;t romantic, then equal is equal and each according to his or her abilities. Or something like that..

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 7:57 p.m. CST


    by Thalya

    *rattle the bars* Save me!

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 7:58 p.m. CST

    *thrumm of lightsaber,bars fall to floor*

    by Darth Kal-El

    here you go my lady!now its time for banana bread

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 7:59 p.m. CST

    John Dalmas

    by kuryakin

    Basically the story is that Reed Richards has been asked by The Man to supervise an experiment where a scientist who looks like Paul Giamatti is going to send a bunch of stupid volunteer soldiers up into space to get zapped by the cosmic rays that turned the FF into the FF. Anyway Reed says "Aye OK" then realises he is in a comic where this type of shit always ends in tears and thinks "Fuck that" and sabotages the mission. But anyhow he gets to thinking WHY the cosmic rays affected them in the ways that are so goddamn explicitly laid out in the movie for us like we are all a bunch of retards. You know, like Ben is so SOLID like a ROCK and Johnny is a HOTHEAD and that kind of shit. Then he looks at the cosmic rays thinking that this is a sign of (oh yes) intelligent design and that there might be a message - well wouldn&#39;t you fucking know it , an alien beastie who&#39;s all made of stars and shit turns up and there&#39;s some altercation with more stupid soldiers. Anyway, basically the entity thing says to Reed, "Hey I&#39;ve been looking for a cat like you for a while. You want to come and check out the Big Bang?" to which Reed says, well why the fuck not? Off they go, this entity then shows how he started the whole Universe off by asking "Why?" or something but how he didn&#39;t have any understanding of HOW even though he&#39;s made of stars and can go back in time and shit. Kind of like how I can work my iPod but don&#39;t know how it works I suppose. Aaaaanyway, luckily old Reed knows everything about laws of physics and all that stuff and quick as a flash, tells the burgeoning universe all about itself, basically creating the whole place. Including those wacky cosmic rays which he ACTUALLY PROGRAMMED to have those specific properties which would turn them into the FF a bazillion years later. And then change so Paul Giamatti can&#39;t exploit them. And that was that. Really if you missed this storyline you missed fuck all - unless you missed the Thing photocopying his arse and FedExing it to Bill Gates, which was fucking funny.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 8:01 p.m. CST

    Mmmm... Use the cream cheese, Darth...

    by Thalya

    My hero.. Using phallic imagery and everything..

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 8:04 p.m. CST

    my pleasure lady c

    by Darth Kal-El

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 8:05 p.m. CST

    "i&#39;m a romantic guy, i have decent sized penis and sense of

    by Darth Kal-El

    did i leave my webcam on again?

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 8:07 p.m. CST

    cream cheese and pumpkin spice

    by Darth Kal-El

    things are getting good now

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 8:11 p.m. CST

    What&#39;s shakin&#39;, Darth?

    by Thalya

    Dare you chime in?

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 8:13 p.m. CST

    poH poH yttepiH

    by SatanTheBunnyGod

    ... Is there carrot cake?

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 8:15 p.m. CST

    im just here at home

    by Darth Kal-El

    sick as a dog!i caught some kind of flu u know the type that everyone seems to have and pass around this time of year. i dont know about chiming in thalya.compguy seems pretty set in his ways and i dont have the energy to get into a discussion about is funny tho how we went from talking to JMS destroying a classic spidey story to well, to where it went. maybe if the discussion is still going on tomorrow ill chime in but for now im content to sit in the cog kitchen with a hot cup of tea and munch on banana bread.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 8:23 p.m. CST

    *pops breadpans in the oven*

    by Thalya

    That&#39;s cool. Hope you feel better. I kinda feel similar, much tension in my neck/throat/sinuses, but it&#39;s more like I can&#39;t stop stressing about this fanfic in my head. It just expanded outwards in a huge direction and suddenly I&#39;m lost and overwhelmed.. gah.. How would you write Grant Morrison as a character?

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 8:25 p.m. CST

    how dare you darth!

    by blackthought

    desecrate my wonderful cage by slicing it dare you!...i expect a replacement cage by christmas...for now i&#39;m pulling a batman and will be brooding in my cave...then i&#39;ll lurk in some alleys bringing harsh justice to misogynistic ninjas who play hackey-sack.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 8:28 p.m. CST

    Are they in New Jersey, blackthought?

    by Thalya

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 8:30 p.m. CST

    i hope so too lady c

    by Darth Kal-El

    sorry about the cage blackthought but i needed me some baked goods!and yes ill replace it with a better,bigger one so stop your brooding and join us for bread!

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 8:35 p.m. CST

    Sandwiches, anyone?

    by Thalya

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 9:25 p.m. CST

    kuryakin that is one of THE most fucked up thing I&#39;ve ever r

    by superhero

    Wow, I&#39;m so glad I decided not to pick JMS&#39;s run up up...that&#39;s fucking CRAZY! So is JMS into intelligent design? Holy cow that&#39;s just WACKY! Man, JMS lost me after his botched Spider-Man and SUPREME POWER is OVER-RATED!

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 9:26 p.m. CST


    by blackthought

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 9:34 p.m. CST

    *walks down the stairs*

    by Thalya

    blackthought.. I brought you some banana bread and cream cheese, fresh from the oven.. The cage was starting to smell, too..

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 9:40 p.m. CST


    by kuryakin

    I know I used the term but I dunno if he&#39;s into intelligent design as such, since it&#39;s putting forward an atheist position but he IS saying that Reed Richards not only created the laws of physics and the world as we know it but also deliberately created the Fantastic Four and chose to fuck over his friend Ben who he&#39;s been trying to cure for years. Incidentally this issue ends with Ben Grimm shedding a big salty tear while trying on his fancy new clothes even though Reed is all self-satisfied at how right the world is. Actually, if you&#39;ve read the issue concerned, the review above is kind of pertinent, in that it mentions this weird disparity between the &#39;all science no God&#39; explanation of creation and the idea of a Creator, in this case Reed Richards. I have no idea where JMS is going with this. It was just silly really. However as I said - the Thing photocopying his arse was a moment of pure comedy gold which you should not miss out on. Supreme Power - I really like it but it moves too slow. I like the way Hyperion is always standing upright in the air. I notice they&#39;ve been using that style in Smallville recently. Hopefully they&#39;ll bring in the violence and boobies as well

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 10:20 p.m. CST

    just leave...

    by blackthought

    the bread by my cave...broods.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 10:28 p.m. CST

    You&#39;d better not have a super secret spy satellite...

    by Thalya

    blackthought.. *leans over from behind and puts a hand to the cheek* I could smack some sense into you, but I&#39;m not gonna..

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 10:37 p.m. CST


    by John Dalmas

    Hey, thanks for that. Thanks a lot. Wow. That&#39;s a really, really fucking stupid story.

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 10:59 p.m. CST

    *comes back into cog mansion with brand new cage*

    by Darth Kal-El

    here you go blackthought,no more brooding!

  • Nov. 26, 2005, 11:05 p.m. CST

    Does this mean I have to get back in?

    by Thalya

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 1:16 a.m. CST


    by blackthought

    and seriously look at my could i not have a super secret spy satellite? and about time with my cage darth...those old school medievil stocks take forever to secure.

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 7:46 a.m. CST

    Lemme see if I understand it

    by DrLektor

    So although *something* created the universe, and then there was that void, the big bang and Eternity(tm) asking wtf? Reed Richards is the template for... everything? God probably, almost certainly, (for definite) exists but man was essentially created in Reed&#39;s image. It was his knowledge of life, the universe and everything that brought order, his book smarts that took all the convoluted theories about the creation of all life on earth, evolution and everything that contradicts god itself! and brought about the universe as we know it. Reed just answered the age old argument of God versus science... or did he just create it? Is Reed... *gasp* God?

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 9:04 a.m. CST

    hey EatABullet...

    by sounding

    oops, banned.

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 9:45 a.m. CST

    *wakes from shock* Wha?

    by The Heathen


  • Nov. 27, 2005, 10:50 a.m. CST

    Here we go...

    by ComputerGuy68

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 10:51 a.m. CST


    by ComputerGuy68

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 10:52 a.m. CST


    by ComputerGuy68

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 10:52 a.m. CST


    by ComputerGuy68

    There are less college scholarships awarded to women then men. looks like there are many ways to get one in the U.S. and if what Thalya says is true, makes sense to me. I thought scholarships were based on things like grades

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 10:53 a.m. CST


    by ComputerGuy68

    Women face more sexual assaults than men. 13-17% National for Women 10% for Men - Not the massive gap we are led to believe

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 10:54 a.m. CST

    almost there

    by ComputerGuy68

    There is a greater chance of a girl being sexually assaulted before they reach puberty than boys. True - 10% of boys and 25% of girls

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 10:55 a.m. CST


    by ComputerGuy68

    There are more women then men who have their spouses attack them - Debatable, of domestic claims, 50-60 % against women, the rest well I guess they were MEN ***Plus you fail to mention this: Violent crime in the U.S. guess who is the biggest victim? MEN Or this: Most victims and perpetrators in homicides are male Male offender/Male victim 65.1% Male offender/Female victim 22.6% Or this: A parent is the perpetrator in most homicides of children under age 5

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 10:55 a.m. CST


    by ComputerGuy68

    -- who have their spouses abandon them -- and leave them with children to support. ***Not being an American and no dealings with you legal system, I don

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 11:12 a.m. CST

    by Thalya

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 11:25 a.m. CST

    *smacks ComputerGuy68 with a 2x4*

    by Thalya

    Oh good grief dude, just let it go. You&#39;re the guy who didn&#39;t have a clue about Gwen Stacy to begin with. I&#39;m a total newb to comics, only read a couple of random promotional Spidey issues (w/o GS in them, mind you), and even I knew who Gwen Stacy was, mainly by reading some stories pertaining to the first Spidey movie and seeing the way she was brought up in various TB discussions (you can learn tons that way). Furthermore, you di&#39;int just go and stretch the TB out with those gigantic URLs (totally ignoring the message in white right above the &#39;Post to TalkBack&#39; button), now did you? Take your medication, there&#39;s no need for you to be as hyper-defensive as you&#39;re being, especially when you&#39;re only reiterating points already more pithily covered. You only earn more ire by doing so.

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 11:30 a.m. CST

    To my Cog$

    by Thalya

    blackthought: Ooh, there&#39;s stocks now? Is there a rack, too? *** Heathen: Thankee. I aim to please and confound.

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 11:36 a.m. CST

    Stretched? Still looks fine on my screen, but I am at 1280x1024,

    by ComputerGuy68

    Not being hypersensitive, I was accused of speaking crap and responded with facts. Thalya, your post covered most of what I was going to respond to, but I just wanted to add actual government stats to the debate. I am done with this debate, and back to comics. Now off to find some Gwen Stacy backstory

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 11:41 a.m. CST

    "You&#39;re the guy who didn&#39;t have a clue about Gwen Stacy

    by The Heathen

    and I know what blackthought meant with his moobiemack comparison, glad your done though

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 12:41 p.m. CST


    by blackthought

    always on the spot understanding my rogue identifying powers...did anything happen in the world of comics this week or did the world breakout into disertations of misogynistic glee or something? hawkman is angry...where is that mace?

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 12:54 p.m. CST

    my shop actually missed it&#39;s shipment

    by The Heathen

    picked up Solo #7 and that Franklin Richards one shot though - haven&#39;t read them yet unfortunately.

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 1:25 p.m. CST

    crazy spoilery stuff announced from DC

    by The Heathen

    Blue Beetle ongoing, Ion/Kyle Rayner ongoing, Wonder Woman stuff, and a bunch of other stuff I don&#39;t want to think too much about in light of ruining it for myself. *** Can anyone explain what happened in Supreme Power: Hyperion #2? I&#39;m confused

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 1:48 p.m. CST

    You saw the Newsarama link I posted, then?

    by Thalya

    Heathen, you think what they might do is an insane stunt where they do Earth-2 for a year, but then things happen to reverse it all? It&#39;s a stupid plan that screws their base if they do, and they&#39;d never hear the end of it, but...

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 1:57 p.m. CST


    by The Heathen

    If 52 is mainly Earth-2 stuff for a year that shows the heroes from Earth-1 going about fixing it, then I "could" buy into that, but I&#39;m a little hesitant about the base being screwed up too. Especially w/ 3 major film properties in DC&#39;s mix. My heads beginning to hurt from all the possiblities, wonder how Vale&#39;s date went?

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 2:10 p.m. CST


    by Thalya 52 going to be E-2 stuff? I wonder too.. Romance has gotta be easier than this, unless it&#39;s romance in the DCU in which case it&#39;s headgames and mistaken identities and oi..

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 2:37 p.m. CST

    If romance was as easy as all this Crisis stuff then I wouldn&#3

    by The Heathen

    as much. Is it safe to take off my emergency batsuit yet? My velcro cape is beginning to irritate my neck.

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 5:04 p.m. CST

    I guess it is safe

    by The Heathen

    as blackthought would say, "hmmm

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 5:51 p.m. CST

    well that dc nessarama stuff...

    by blackthought

    i was most interested in the sorta sequel to villains united with gail simone taking up a new six.

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 6 p.m. CST

    But who&#39;s gonna be in the new six?

    by The Heathen

    Not Kite Man! And I guess that means that Supergirl survives, bad news for Power Girl.

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 7:39 p.m. CST

    yes how did vale&#39;s date go?

    by Darth Kal-El

    im curious as well! and heathen your right i should have waited til xmas but i didnt want him brooding because sooner or later someone is getting mindwiped and seriously its all fun and games til someone gets mindwiped.still scik so havent made it out to the comics store altho im thinking of venturing out to barnes and noble just so my entire weekedn wasnts wasted on the couch in pjs watching tivo

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 9:07 p.m. CST

    Vale Returns!

    by El Vale

    My date was great...had dinner and a few martinis, cool as hell. No sex tho&#39;, but hey it was a first date! Problem is i like the girl but she&#39;s total girlfriend material and i just got out of a long term relationship, so i&#39;m not sure i want to get into another one right away.***On a side note i think you guys are being way too harsh on CompGuy...i don&#39;t have a problem with the things he&#39;s said, even if i don&#39;t agree with them, cause he&#39;s been pretty decent in explaining them. I gouldn&#39;t go comparing him to Moviemack just yet is what i&#39;m saying. Plus, he makes some valid points, even if they don&#39;t happen to be politically correct.

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 9:17 p.m. CST

    And having read the explanation for JMS&#39; FF thing...

    by El Vale

    Am i the only one who thinks it sounds great? I mean i don&#39;t know if it works in the context of a Fantastic Four comic, but i don&#39;t really give a shit because i&#39;m not a fan of the characters or anything. I might pick it up after this. I really think it&#39;s a kickass idea...genius goes back to the begining of the universe and helps create it? Wow...i&#39;m seriously blown away...anyone with me?

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 10:10 p.m. CST

    I kinda liked the idea myself..

    by Thalya

    It&#39;d be something so out-there and abstract..right up my alley. Anyone think Ambush Bug my get added to the Six? Anyone see any interesting movies this weekend?

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 10:48 p.m. CST

    Thalya i forgot to mention

    by El Vale

    Read as many Morrison interviews as you can, should help you get a feel of him as a "character". There&#39;s also a video of him, speaking at a con or something at the DC site. Look it up. Here&#39;s a great interview to start your research And here&#39;s one of my fave Morrison stories ever:

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 11:04 p.m. CST

    Ooh, thanks Vale :)

    by Thalya

    I&#39;ll definitely have to read them tomorrow when I&#39;m awake enough. Though I don&#39;t know if the characterization will last long.. He&#39;ll be unhinged by the end of the first story on his way to being a high priest/cult leader, which isn&#39;t really a stretch from what I&#39;ve read so far.. BTW, Cyborg the character (in his current &#39;classic&#39; form -- and, say, whatever jet the Titans fly about in) could probably be taken out by an EMP, right?

  • Nov. 27, 2005, 11:35 p.m. CST


    by El Vale

    Kid who plays George Michael in Arrested Development: Brilliant.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 12:07 a.m. CST

    vale why?

    by blackthought

    must you bring up arrested;s too soon...i&#39;m still getting over its cancelation...sighs.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 11:05 a.m. CST

    Good afternoon Cogs.

    by Shigeru

    I return from cryo-stasis. I HUNGER. Anyways, here is the sweetest link you will see all day (click if you are a fan of Morrison&#39;s X-Men)

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 11:14 a.m. CST

    JMS and being too harsh

    by The Heathen

    I haven&#39;t really ever read FF consistently and probably only own a handful of their issues, but I admit that the idea of this current issue does sound pretty cool in an out there abstract kinda way. Does it work ina FF comic? Sounds like it doesn&#39;t, but it could somewhere else or maybe if Morrison wrote it it would be acceptable? Hmm, maybe so. As far as JMS? I think those 18 issues of Supreme Power in the MAX line were freaking awesome. Some great stuff. It&#39;s all out in trade now, read it through at once and see for yourself. As for JMS on Spidey, ahven&#39;t read much of it besides the current arc or two. I don&#39;t think that what he did w/ origins or Gwen&#39;s character should have been done in that way though. I&#39;m also a little, okay a lot, nervous about Supreme Power: Squadron Supreme. I can&#39;t say why really, but I feel weird reading the Hyperion mini. It feels the same, but yet different. I don&#39;t know if that&#39;s because of the art not being done by Frank (probably is) but it&#39;s strange. Can anybody tell me about Hyperion #2? *** Oh yeah, as far as the harshness for CompDude being compared to Moobie I&#39;ll tell you why it&#39;s fair: In his heyday Moobie posted an infinite amount of time to try to get his single opinion heard. He beated it and beated it until the horse was gorram glue! CompDude reminded me of that due to his shear amount of posts on a single subject with a sub-subject that was basically the same. That said, he was in no way the pompous ass that Moobie was. That&#39;s fair.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 11:23 a.m. CST

    JMS: Great B5/awful comics writer & how did this become a blog o

    by Max Meanie

    First off, I&#39;m a big fan of Babylon 5. I push the show on everybody because I feel it was a true trimuph for TV sci-fi and a breath of fresh air for the genre. When I heard he would write mainstream comics (not the B5 stuff for DC) I looked forward to it with great anticipation. That being said I do not like his handling of classic comics characters. He seems to have this obsession with re-writing history instead of carving out his own legacy like Byrne did with FF or Simonson did with Thor. It&#39;s a pompous attitude that some writers seem to have, playing god in the comics sandbox (Jeph Leob is another example). I refused to pick up JMS&#39; Spider-Man after reading reviews. I believe Captain Comics in CBG said it best when he said "There wasn&#39;t a need for any new stories or character development for Gwen Stacy. She&#39;s dead." Why he felt he had to tarnish the character made no sense. And for the weird turn this Talk Back column took regarding women: whatever experiences you guys/gals had with women doesn&#39;t correspond to what happened to Gwen. She was established a certain way and to twist her in the way JMS has contridicts everything we knew about her. To compare, what Moore did to Swamp Thing doesn&#39;t mess with past stories. What JMS did was take a sunny character and suddenly take her on a dark path that wouldn&#39;t fit anywhere in her past history. It&#39;s like making Capt America a child molester (the real reason why Bucky was killed). Someone summed it up on this page where they said JMS was tampering with simply written uncomplicated stories by cluttering them. Example: his Dr Strange mini-series. He turned a simple morality tale into a cliched ripoff of The Matrix. Where before Strange learned morality and then became a sorceror at ramdom, JMS turns him into Neo - the One that everyone expected to save the world. It changes him from an elitist who became humbled into greatness to an elitest who was always meant to be great. Can anyone relate to him now? And that&#39;s where JMS fails. At the core of Marvel was this essence that any one of us could&#39;ve become Spidey. By making them pre-ordained he loses the audience like Lucas did with the Jedi in "Phantom Menace." (Not everyone can be a Jedi, you have to be born that way.) I will continue to enjoy my Babylon 5 DVD&#39;s but will not buy JMS comics. He needs to read some Lee/Kirby classics and understand why these characters work. PS: God I hope I didn&#39;t just encourage him to make Cap a child molester!

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 12:18 p.m. CST

    Harsh, I didn&#39;t think so...

    by ComputerGuy68

    Littleknownfax was (IMO) the only one adversarial to me and I instead of getting into a shouting match I usually conduct my arguments with a deluge of facts. I find this much more effective than simply saying

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 12:32 p.m. CST

    Bucky was a child molester!?!

    by ComputerGuy68


  • Nov. 28, 2005, 12:51 p.m. CST

    Bucky was not molested - I was kidding

    by Max Meanie

    Computer Guy wrote: "A character (Gwen) ignored in all games, movies and TV shows, (which has greater exposure to the masses), and allowed to be tinkered with by JMS." That still doesn&#39;t justify what he did. At a comics panel he tried to defend his storyline by saying nothing had been done to the character in years. Well the same holds true for Uncle Ben. That doesn&#39;t mean it needs to be done. These characters served a purpose in shaping Spidey&#39;s history & should be left there. In Gwen&#39;s case it was the first girl he fell in love with. By writing themselves in a corner, Marvel couldn&#39;t marry off Peter & instead killed her off affecting him greatly. Powerful stuff in comics at the time. Now re-written for shock value. I expect better from such an innovative writer like JMS.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 1:03 p.m. CST

    Max Meanie, agreed,

    by ComputerGuy68

    my point is that Marvel should take some of the blame too. They could say , uh Joe, we&#39;re not going to let you make a beloved character a slut to give you a new storyline. Look&#39;s like they didn&#39;t care.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 1:22 p.m. CST

    What did Gwen Stacy do?

    by El Vale

    Did she fuck Osborn because she was a dirty slut or...? I think the story could be ignored if you guys hate it so much and if you can&#39;t ignore it i&#39;m sure some writer who hated the story as much as you did will come on board and erase it with some convoluted explanation. Or maybe it was all a dream. My point is this is still just a comic book character, some people act like they just found out their mom did porn in the 70s.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 1:25 p.m. CST


    by blackthought

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 1:30 p.m. CST

    Of course Marvel is to blame

    by The Heathen

    they won&#39;t edit Bendis, JMS or any other big time writer they have and that&#39;s why those writers stories have been not consistent. Not because they can&#39;t write, but because they aren&#39;t edited.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 1:38 p.m. CST

    "...just a comic book character" but a great story

    by Max Meanie

    El Vale said: "My point is this is still just a comic book character." I love it when people make this comment. Nothing against you, El Vale. If you can get entertainment from comics without continuity that&#39;s fine. But the reason that any form of literature, be it novels, short stories or comics of any genre, has had the lasting impact it has on generations is the connection it makes to its audience about life. Dickens comments on the welfare of humanity is no less powerful for some than Spider-Man&#39;s responsibility to help people. Comics have shaped millions of people&#39;s lives (you can&#39;t avoid the impact they&#39;ve made on filmakers) and to demean any form of literature to a subpar level with any other form is insulting people that do care about characters and stories that enrich their lives. You don&#39;t care about the Gwen Stacy storyline? Great. Don&#39;t put down people that do.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 1:40 p.m. CST

    But enough of that

    by The Heathen

    Ahhh!!! Wow, this is pretty bad. Hate Hairsines art, and was really dissapointed in Brubaker. Pete Woods who did that little extra story in the back I would have preferred. I wonder if Thunderbird is going to come back?! Sheesh, this is some trite shit. Especially following HoM, this is just digging a litle deeper. Funny how the only thing involving the X-Men after HoM that was actually okay was the Decimation one shot by Claremont. I was shocked to have kinda liked it.

  • And i wasn&#39;t really putting you down, calling you an idiot because you care a lot about a fictional character, that&#39;s the way you decided to take it...i was just saying hey at the end of the day it&#39;s just a 6 part storyline (i think) about a comic book character so it&#39;s not THAT big a deal. But i wouldn&#39;t think less of you if you did think it was, i just wouldn&#39;t agree. That doesn&#39;t change the fact that no one answered my question: What did Gwen Stacy do?

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 1:48 p.m. CST

    re: writers not being edited

    by Max Meanie

    I don&#39;t think that&#39;s the case. Everything is about sales. The state of the comics industry is pitiful. 20,000 copies sold is good today but a candidate for cancellation 10 years ago. I completely understand why writers are coming up with "Sins of the Past" or "House of M." It generates interest and hopefully sales. In Spider-Man&#39;s case, Marvel lost readership during the Gwen Stacy storyline. But look at the success of "House of M" and it&#39;s spinoff titles. But would it even happen if an editor pointed out to Bendis, "dude, The Avengers would never let Magneto fly off with a mentally unstable all-powerful member with reality shaping powers. That&#39;s just stupid." The industry needs to expand their lines to include other genres than superheroes and support creator-owned books.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 1:56 p.m. CST


    by blackthought

    two things that don&#39;t go well together...marvel and editors...moviemack and taste...and rob liefeld and a sense of anatomy.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 1:58 p.m. CST

    no offense taken at all...

    by Max Meanie

    ...I just find it interesting when people take the time to actually post about a subject & reduce it to a non-important level which makes you wonder why they bother to post in the first place about something so non-important. I didn&#39;t read the Gwen Stacy storyline (I read reviews and spoke to friends that did buy it) but I believe that in a brief period of time when Gwen went off to Europe to mellow out she apparently had a brief affair, got knocked up and had 2 kids with Norman Osbourne (the Green Goblin). She kept the kids away from him which caused Norman to kill her. Also, MJ knew all this for years and never told Peter. This contridicts the original story why The Green Goblin killed her. It wasn&#39;t anything to do with Spider-Man but personal against her. It also drives a wedge between Peter & MJ and ruins the memory he had of his old girlfriend. Somebody please edit where I messed up the facts!

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 2:31 p.m. CST

    Actually, Max

    by El Vale

    It&#39;s pretty funny because if anything, comic books-reading them, thinking obsessively about them and most importantly, making them-are my life (The proffesional part of it) so it&#39;s a moot point you&#39;re making because i never said comics were non-important. I think we could have a discrepancy here based solely on views and if you equate comic books to superheroes that would certainly explain it.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 2:52 p.m. CST

    Vale, I forgot to mention

    by The Heathen

    that I missed Lost last Wed. do to spacing cause of the holiday and seeing a movie w/ the girl. Can you tell me what sight you download the episodes please? I&#39;ve never downloaded anything that long so if you can tell me anything that would be great. Thanks.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 2:53 p.m. CST

    what an odd thing to say, El Vale

    by Max Meanie

    You&#39;re in the profession of comics and you post on a comics blog that we shouldn&#39;t discuss the Gwen Stacy story because she&#39;s "just a comic book character." What is your profession since you brought it up? Do you create your own? Run a store? I don&#39;t know why you would say I "equate comic books to superheroes" when in my last post I stated "The industry needs to expand their lines to include other genres than superheroes." I&#39;m with you...I think.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 3:19 p.m. CST


    by El Vale

    Well i found all those Lost episodes at should be fine...try browsing the television section or just look Lost up in the search bar. I&#39;m glad you missed Lost this week, i don&#39;t feel so alone anymore :P

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 3:21 p.m. CST

    thank you kindly Vale

    by The Heathen

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 3:22 p.m. CST

    oh torrents of bit

    by blackthought

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 3:26 p.m. CST

    Max, i love it when you put words in my mouth

    by El Vale

    But not really. If you look up my posts on the subject you&#39;ll find i never told you not to discuss the Gwen Stacy fact i asked what the deal was so i could discuss it with some knowledge on the subject. My point was and is "it&#39;s not THAT big a deal", and it&#39;s as valid a point as any, given the circumstances. On the other hand i never said you equate comics to superheroes, if you read it again it states pretty clearly that IF you happen to equate those two i would understand why we can&#39;t reach an agreement. You just said you didn&#39;t so there&#39;s no easy answer i guess. As for my profession, i create my own comics in a nowhere-near-professional level. So...yeah, your turn to misinterpret things.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 3:56 p.m. CST

    Sins Past details...

    by Max Meanie

    ...I spelled them out. What do you think now that you know some of them? re: putting words in your mouth. I just copied & pasted what you wrote. I&#39;ll do it again: "i was just saying at the end of the day it&#39;s just a storyline about a comic book character so it&#39;s not THAT big a deal." "if you equate comic books to superheroes that would certainly explain it." I ain&#39;t misinterpreting nothing. Don&#39;t back down. What did you mean by that? Are you saying that comics in general are not worth discussing? Or just superhero comics? My point is (and please this is not personal) that you cannot shut down a discussion just because you are not interested in it and then post about it. That&#39;s hypocritical. I don&#39;t care about Buffy but I&#39;m not going on a Vampire Slayer blog and posting that. Now you asked about the Gwen Stacy story details. I listed them. What do you think?

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 3:57 p.m. CST

    Two quick things (four cents?)

    by AstroThunder

    All-Star Superman kicked wicked S-shield ass; Green Lantern #5 was the second issue in the new monthly that didn&#39;t completely bore me to tears. That is all

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 4:17 p.m. CST

    you must like Van Sciver a lot

    by The Heathen

    I know I do too, but I wasn&#39;t bored with any of the 5 GL issues so far. All around good stuff.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 4:20 p.m. CST

    AS Superman - Luthor very cool!

    by Max Meanie

    If there&#39;s something Morrison does well is write villains. His Luthor is very creepy! I just hope he doesn&#39;t go off the deep end by writing too many concepts into his scripts like he did with JLA. Too many ideas but not much follow through.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 4:25 p.m. CST

    Has anyone read the Garth Ennis Ghost Rider?

    by Max Meanie

    I&#39;m a fan of his work but am a little aprehensive. Is it a horror book or played for laughs?

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 4:28 p.m. CST


    by Thalya

    What concepts did Morrison write into JLA? I think they may have flown over my head... *** And Heathen, don&#39;t feel so bad. I missed Lost too. They shouldn&#39;t air new eps the night before Thanksgiving, it&#39;s just wrong..

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 4:28 p.m. CST

    Heathen revealed (to the Cog $mooches)

    by The Heathen ** ** I made one of those MySpace thingies that all the kids are into these days. Hope it works, if it doesn&#39;t let me know and I&#39;ll fix it. The first link is to my main profile and the second one is pics of I, my girl, her brother, and our mascot Remmigans!

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 4:29 p.m. CST

    it was wrong Lady C.

    by The Heathen

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Max Meanie, re: Ghost Rider...

    by ComputerGuy68

    I&#39;ve enjoyed the first three so far. I would say horror with very dark humor. They seem too short however. A good time to jump in, I can only imagine Marvel pushing this product a lot before the film.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 4:41 p.m. CST

    Morrison concepts

    by Max Meanie

    It&#39;s been a while since I read those issues but his JLA (like Doom Patrol) had a ton of little ideas he would throw in and then forget about - character interactions, why villains were there, the line-up would change for no reason. He was the first writer that I conciously noticed was writing for the trade collections. Things happened so quickly the JLA went from one cosmic threat to the next, daily it seemed.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 4:46 p.m. CST


    by mortsleam

    Great name. The Walrus approves. The problem with Prof C&#39;s FF review is that he doesn&#39;t explain why he didn&#39;t like it. Was he angry because he&#39;s a fundmentalist whacko and doesn&#39;t want to see Reed Richards taking primacy over God? Is he a scienctific athiest whacko and doesn&#39;t want to ackowledge intelligent design (which I could understand being a scientific athiest whacko myself)? Is his main beef with making Reed knowingly responsible for Ben&#39;s transformation? The review didn&#39;t give us anything more than that, and it wasn&#39;t particularly funny, which it should damn well be to justify such indulgence. By the way, I think it&#39;s a bad issue too, for a combination of the above reasons, but I think that it&#39;s fairly in line with something Stan himself would&#39;ve cooked up in the 60&#39;s if he was little more intellectual. And then no one would be complaining. The revisionist Gwen Stacy thing, on the other hand, should never have seen print.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 4:48 p.m. CST

    If I were writing Morrison

    by mortsleam

    I&#39;d characterize him like Slick, the freaky little toad thing from New X-Men that had the power of a tangible ego that could disguise his freaky toad nature.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 5:03 p.m. CST

    Hi mortsleam

    by Max Meanie

    I hope you&#39;re not confusing me with someone else. I didn&#39;t comment on the FF review but perhaps my posts about JMS are what you&#39;re referring to. I just steered clear because he was attached to it. I&#39;m having fun buying up the FF masterworks & reading those. I agree about the Gwen story. Hell, if it sold well we&#39;d be in the minority. But it didn&#39;t.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 5:26 p.m. CST

    My final comment on Gwen Stacy...

    by ComputerGuy68

    JMS can borrow Brandon Braga&#39;s "Reset Device (TM)", the one he used so much in Trek, but didn&#39;t have time to use on Threshold.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 5:52 p.m. CST

    Kelsey Grammar is...

    by REDD

    The Beast

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 5:54 p.m. CST

    i thought u were exagerating about your girl heathen

    by Darth Kal-El

    but she is indeed quite hot! her brother&#39;s pic disturbed and aroused me

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 5:58 p.m. CST

    and u look

    by Darth Kal-El

    like the kind of cool,funny guy i would definitely hang out with in RL altho i know i would keep stealing glances at your hot girl

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 6:04 p.m. CST


    by kuryakin

    It&#39;s funny how he manages to piss off atheists, Christians and general FF fans all in one issue. I have actually liked his run on Fantastic Four, it&#39;s just that he seems to ignore the &#39;fantastic&#39; side of things. It&#39;s also kind of ironic that the Ultimate Fantastic Four has more of the goofiness and crazy science shit than the actual FF comic - usually the Ultimate books are (IMO, pretty desperately) trying to be more gritty and shocking, while the standard books do their own thing. Totally flipped with the FF books. And I forgot to mention this total nonsense with child services checking if Reed and Sue are good parents. WHAT??? They told the UN to go and fuck themselves a year ago but now they&#39;re scared of a social worker?

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 6:07 p.m. CST

    The Heathen - GL stuff

    by AstroThunder

    I like Van Sciver&#39;s art quite a bit, but I guess I&#39;m just having trouble getting into the new GL series. The only issues I&#39;ve really dug so far were #3 and #5, the rest have been kinda ho-hum, IMO. Thing is, I relly liked Rebirth, am digging GL Corps: Recharge, and enjoy Johns&#39; writing. I just don&#39;t really find myelf engaged with or invested in the stuff that&#39;s going on. It&#39;s one of those cases where I&#39;m expecting more than what I&#39;m given, I guess. I&#39;ll give old Hal a few more months before he&#39;s put on the chopping block.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 7:27 p.m. CST

    All-Star Superman

    by superninja

    Agreed with whomever said it was sort of boring. Too Morrison-quirky for me with the Labcoat of Many Colors, etc. Or maybe I just don&#39;t like Superman in outerspace stories? Anyway, the stuff with Clark and Lois was cute but at this point that is sleepwalk writing. All Stars so far is a major disappointment.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 8:15 p.m. CST


    by Thalya

    huh.. I kinda thought that was supposed to be the norm, moving from one threat to the next..but then some of the trade collections for JLA were what I started out on when I got serious about reading. It sets some weird expectations though, &#39;cause I&#39;ve tended to have an anxiety when I&#39;ve read other stuff about "why aren&#39;t they doing more?. There&#39;s so much going on in the world and they aren&#39;t doing anything!" It was kinda nice though because it seemed to want to take into account all the different changes going on in all the solo books at the same time.

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 9:30 p.m. CST

    any of you cogs...

    by blackthought

    seen my mr. terrifc jacket anywhere?

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 10:33 p.m. CST


    by Thalya

    Anyone read JSA: Classified this week? Great read. I love it when the POV is a villain. *** Too bad Psynapse isn&#39;t around more... I&#39;m seriously thinking of writing Grant Morrison just like him, and I wish you could see why..

  • Nov. 28, 2005, 11:51 p.m. CST


    by hamgravy

    Was littleknownfax actually banned? And ComputerGuy is still around? From where I was reading it, seemed like littleknown was putting out lucid arguments regarding the topic on top of actually having to mount a defense for women in general. If so, between this shit and the bananna bread I&#39;m done with this site.

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 1:55 a.m. CST


    by El Vale

    Come on, man, you&#39;re just proving my points right there by quoting me: A 6 part storyline that&#39;s bound to be revisited and retconed out of existence is not THAT big a deal. And the other one: IF you equate the two. If, very important word, i think you are misinterpreting. If i didn&#39;t think comics were worth discussing i wouldn&#39;t be here, and yeah superhero comics aren&#39;t my thing but i am willing to discuss them thoroughly, if the conversation&#39;s interesting enough. Once again i did not shut down al discussion on the subject because a) I wouldn&#39;t know how to do that and b) I don&#39;t really want to. I was just expressing my point of view. Finally, i&#39;m a founding All Week Cog Smoocher (yeah...don&#39;t ask :P), man...i&#39;m very active in this board so this isn&#39;t some random forum i pop into in order to shut down all Gwen Stacy conversation that may or may not be taking place. having read about the storyline i have to say it sounds like shit...sounds like jumping the shark, sounds like a bad story. Highly unimaginative. I&#39;m sure the execution wasn&#39;t any better.

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 2:15 a.m. CST

    Hathen revealed

    by El Vale

    Heathen looks nothing like i thought he would. His girl&#39;s purdy, tho&#39;. His brother in law creeps me out!

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 2:19 a.m. CST

    Thing i like about Mr Fantastic helping create the universe is

    by El Vale

    It&#39;s like making intelligent design completely scientific. Still think it&#39;s a brilliant concept.

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 8:04 a.m. CST

    Sorry about that Max. My comment on your name and my comment on

    by mortsleam

    Shoulda used some asterisks or something to separate them.

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 8:37 a.m. CST

    He creeps me out too

    by The Heathen

    Thank you my fellow Cogs. Nope, I sure wasn&#39;t lying about my girl, it&#39;d be funny if I was though. After damn near half a year or more now (wow) I&#39;ve said she&#39;s my goddess and imagine if you went to the link and saw a Hutt! Her brother

  • Since Heathen did such a good job maybe Mexico Scary Face isn&#39;t cutting it. My favorite was "Christina helping me get through my photography class." Or "Christina helping Shigeru get through some long winter nights." SWEET CHRISTMAS. Okay I kid I kid, please don&#39;t sic that gangsta brother on me. Remmigans is fucking awesome.

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 9:45 a.m. CST


    by blackthought

    don&#39;t tell me i have to create a myspace account to view pictures of the heathen...i shall not succumb to myspace...i refuse! hmmmm...where was i going again? oh, class...sighs.

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 9:47 a.m. CST


    by The Heathen

    She&#39;s a cover steeler that girl is! And I&#39;ll try to hold back my g&#39;d up, soon to be brutha n law, but he&#39;s one of those tiny, rigid people who needs to take some estrogen pills types. It won&#39;t be easy. I&#39;ll find some more pics of Remy, he&#39;s a character. He actually needs to be neutered, cause he&#39;s been acting a little too weird even for him and he also only has one testicle

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 9:54 a.m. CST

    I know what you mean blackthought

    by The Heathen

    I was real hesitant about myspace and still am. All I usually see is people like Christina&#39;s brother on there, but then you got people like Warren Ellis and Regina Spektor on there too, besides, I&#39;ll probably only use it to show you Cogs some pics every now and then. Drop me an email and I&#39;ll send you the pics if you won&#39;t succumb. Btw, I think I saw Thalya w/ your jacket.

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 11:02 a.m. CST wonderful mr. terrific jacket....

    by blackthought

    i&#39;m just not emo enough for myspace though warren ellis is one of my favorite writers period, so it&#39;s tempting but moore would smite me with dark magic if i fall prey to myspace.

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 1:29 p.m. CST

    Just keeping it warm for you, blackthought..

    by Thalya

    *hands it over* Besides, it&#39;s lonely in the cage and it smells nice..

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 2:18 p.m. CST christina...

    by Darth Kal-El

    arghh...i cant help myself!***i think i pictured you chubby for some reason heathen. and it would have been very funny if your goddess turned out to be a hutt.i wonder if that had been the case if we would have all politely kept out mouths shut.i know i probably wouldnt have said anything and then me and vale would have exchanged messages in spanish or something.***remigans IS fucking awesome! great mascot for the cogs.***blackthought are u still brooding?***thalya what smells nice the cage or blackthoughts jacket?***i finally got paid so i can buy new comics!***thanks for the downloading info vale i have been getting quite a few things!more on that later!***hope all is well in everyone&#39;s world

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 2:20 p.m. CST


    by blackthought

    downloading comics?

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 2:22 p.m. CST

    and movies

    by Darth Kal-El

    im tapping into your spy satelites bandwith for faster downloads...hope u dont mind!

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 2:55 p.m. CST

    The jacket..

    by Thalya

    Mmm...leather.. It&#39;s better than these pine shavings, at least. I&#39;d hate to know what Mr. Terrible&#39;s jacket smells like though, especially since it has the word Foul on it..

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 2:57 p.m. CST


    by Thalya

    *looks to one side and sees a brooder watching his secret spy satellites* *looks to the other side and sees a Kal-El* ....My name isn&#39;t Diana, Donna, or Cassie, though..

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 3:21 p.m. CST

    So are we on to the analogues now?

    by Shigeru

    blackthought broods and thinks alot, so Bruce it is. Kal-El...well that&#39;s kinda easy. Thalya Oracle is pretty much a lady calculator so...but you&#39;re not in a wheelchair.... now where did I put that .38 special?

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 3:26 p.m. CST

    *hides behind her hamster wheel!*

    by Thalya

    Dude, you&#39;re a Cog, not the Joker. Unless that&#39;s your Earth-3 counterpart. Would that make you the Red Hood/Jason Todd then? But then who would be my Dick? (sorry, couldn&#39;t help it..) Or Ted?

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Wha!!?? superninja? That you? Where you been dude?

    by Heywood Jablowme

    Where&#39;s the snappy writing when you need it? Sincerely, Prof&#39;s FF "review". And Comp. Guy, you give Marvel&#39;s marketing dept. WAAAAY too much credit to think they would have their books tie in with their films. They don&#39;t do it. That&#39;s something that we&#39;ve covered here before.

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 3:31 p.m. CST

    Thalya DC rant = brain hurt.

    by Shigeru

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 3:45 p.m. CST

    so are we...

    by blackthought

    the justice league i take it with analouges? i have no qaulms being a batman analogue...who&#39;s zauriel? who&#39;s plastic man? if we were analogues of the jsa instead, a book which i do so much enjoy...i&#39;d wanna be dr. fate or hawkman. imagine a mace flying at your head for taking the last slice of banana bread or a wonderous choas and order magics assaulted you...hell i&#39;m combining both teamings and stirring batman, hawkman and dr. fate into a pot and then coming out of it with a mr. terrific jacket...whoa, this is so not condusive to my higher education at the moment...oh why does it take so long to render?

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 3:45 p.m. CST


    by savage_henry

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 4:32 p.m. CST

    Heywood Jablowme - New to this dept...

    by ComputerGuy68

    although a member of AICN for a few years, I

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 5:10 p.m. CST

    Max Meanie, stay away from GHOST RIDER.

    by SleazyG.

    It&#39;s garbage, and I wrote a cheap shot saying so a coupla weeks ago. A lot of people in the talkbacks agreed. As for the reason why, it&#39;s simple: it&#39;s a retread of the demon/angel thing he&#39;s been doing since HELLBLAZER, but not nearly as good, and he&#39;s once again indulging all his stupidest, most childish impulses. At his best, I really love Ennis, but at its worst, you get trash like this. Oh, and the art is pretty crappy too--it&#39;s way too dark to tell what&#39;s going on most of the time and Ghost Rider is hardly flamey at all. Which, I just realized, sounds kinda wrong. I&#39;d flip through an issue first to see if it has any appeal to you, but most of the people I&#39;ve heard from think it stinks.

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 5:12 p.m. CST

    Littleknownfax hasn&#39;t been banned, guys.

    by SleazyG.

    We never even talked about doing it, and his posts are all still clearly visible. Chill--it&#39;s all good.

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 5:37 p.m. CST

    Dang, Comp Guy, that sucks. Take care, man.

    by Heywood Jablowme

    Keep hangning around, this is a pretty goofy crowd; and the only consistently good section on the sight. Sorry to hear you&#39;re ill. No sweat on the guy v. chick thing. I come here to talk comics and bullshit, not start ego-driven, anonymous verbal warfare. Hey, make sure to stay away from All-Star Batman & Robin, that book will only make you wretch and possibly cause bleeding from the eyes. Why, why, Frank?! Why hast thou forsaken decent writing?

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 5:48 p.m. CST

    "this is a pretty goofy crowd; and the only consistently good se

    by Darth Kal-El

    its all true compguy.***out of sheer morbid curiousity i fliped through a copy of AS Batman & Robin at the store last week and this week im sick as a dog.coincidence?yes but its still a crappy comic

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 6:01 p.m. CST

    El Vale & indie vs mainstream superheroes

    by Max Meanie

    Cool beans man! When you put that way I hope it is retconned out. What indie books do you read? To tell you the truth it&#39;s hard to read Avengers & JLA with the state of the world right now. Bendis is doing his best to make New Avengers topical but it comes off as watered-down & insulting to my intelligence. The books I&#39;ve enjoyed the most in the last few years were Tom Strong, From Hell & Garth Ennis&#39; Punisher. Yeah, Punisher is Marvel but take away the trademark & they&#39;re just cool gangster stories. Tom Strong is pure escapist fun & From Hell kicked my ass on many levels (entertainment, informative history, cool gore, etc). Any cool indie books out there along those lines? I just got Frankenstein Mobster in the mail. Hope it&#39;s fun!

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 7:06 p.m. CST

    whoa darth...

    by blackthought

    comics so bad that they you sick?

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 7:40 p.m. CST

    Thanks guys, just read Detective Comics 801-813...

    by ComputerGuy68

    nice and twisted story. What other Bat titles should I check out?

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 8:40 p.m. CST


    by Darth Kal-El

    gotham central

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 9:21 p.m. CST


    by blackthought

    damn straight...a book that will be sorely missed.

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 9:29 p.m. CST

    by Darth Kal-El

  • Nov. 29, 2005, 11:45 p.m. CST


    by El Vale

    Well i don&#39;t know about indy comics, but i sure like my non superhero comics...unfortunately i live in a place with no comics so i don&#39;t pick up stuff regularly...i do download a lot of comics but i&#39;ve been mostly catching up on comics i&#39;ve wanted to read for years, like From Hell. Ex Machina and Y: The last man are cool; Y hit a high point with that Safeword storyline and i&#39;ve felt i haven&#39;t been gripped by it from then on. Just finished reading Promethea and it&#39;s highly recommended, especially those final few issues. Did you read Punisher: The end? What an amazing story. 100 Bullets is great reading as is Fables. I love Powers. How bout Preacher? My fave. I&#39;ll read anything Moore, anything Morrison...Brubaker, love the guy. Don&#39;t read All Star Batman...don&#39;t know if you heard but it made Darth sick. How bout you?

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 6:34 a.m. CST

    Make sure to avoid Gotham Knights until it ends its run in a few

    by Heywood Jablowme

    What a major disappointment that&#39;s been. Just kill it now and put the poor thing out of its misery. Cruelty to comics should be against the law. You hear me Liefeld?!?

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 7:41 a.m. CST

    Thanks for the info, I think I got all the good ones.

    by ComputerGuy68

    OK have these but not read yet; Gotham Central 33-37, Jekyll & Hyde 01-05, Batman & the Monster Men 01, Legends of the Dark Knight 197, Batman 646, Gotham County Line 01. Will avoid All ASS Batman & Robin, and Gotham Knights.

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 8:50 a.m. CST

    i need...

    by blackthought

    a gotham knights throwback jersey

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 10:58 a.m. CST

    bat titles and other comics

    by Gus Nukem

    Lapham and Bachs&#39;s 12 issue run on &#39;Tec, plus a Lapham created 8-page story on #800, minus two dead Robin interlude issues in the said run. *** I loved DD vs. Punisher by Lapham. The usual excellence you&#39;d expect from a Lapham written & drawn comic, plus the closest thing to Miller&#39;s DD tales. *** If one reads bat titles, he can easily persuaded to try Stray Bullets. From Lapham&#39;s own El Capitan press. Excellent, griping comics. *** Maybe not a bat comic, but Ennis&#39;s MAX Punisher comics are excellent. YOU MUST READ Punisher: The End and his 6-issue series 303 from Avatar ( -- I hope Vale read it) *** I am enjoying All Star Batman and Robin; one might, if he could shut the barrage (or should I say the torrent, right Vale? ;-)) of negative internet critics.

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 11:18 a.m. CST

    December 2005 Previews: What are you ordering? (please, add a br

    by Gus Nukem

    Batman Year One Hundred - Paul Pope does Batman. **** Hellboy: Makoma - Mignola AND Corben. **** Nat Turner Volume 1 tpb - Kyle Baker as freelance working on the story of Nat Turner **** Showcase Presents: House of Mystery Vol. 1 tpb - "vintage horror and suspense by artists like Bernie Wrightson, Neal Adams, Gil Kane and Alex Toth" **** other than that, as with every other month everything new Morrison, Miller, Quitely, Moore, Lapham, Ennis, Dillon I can get my hands on. I prefer following creators than titles.

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 11:26 a.m. CST

    I am reading Black Hole by Charles Burns and... wow

    by Gus Nukem

    am currently at #5. A couple more days and I&#39;ll have read All Star Superman #01 too, friends.

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 12:36 p.m. CST

    Yeah I got Punisher 25-27 Slavers series...

    by ComputerGuy68

    friggin hardcore! Just got Punisher vs Bullseye 01 too *** Stray Bullets - check, Punisher: The End and his 6-issue series 303 - check

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 12:39 p.m. CST

    what? Someone else has read 303?

    by Gus Nukem

    I am at #07 of Black Hole. Amazing work.

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Lots of catching up CompGuy? That&#39;s always fun, but I iamgin

    by The Heathen

    Sorry to hear about the shingles too. I&#39;ve heard that it is excruciating indeed, almost as bad as reading All Star Batman & Robin. Actually, for what it&#39;s worth, I don&#39;t think the book is good, but I am morbidly curious as to what Miller is going to have happen next with all the not so subtle perverse sexual situations and cop killings. It&#39;s completely what I intended it NOT to be

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 1:56 p.m. CST

    who rang?

    by blackthought

    blackthought what now? hmmmm...heathen&#39;s JSA analogue....hmmmm...power girl? no, no...i&#39;m thinking...JJ Thunder! JLA...well it&#39;s obvious, Steel and Plastic wait, wait, Aquaman...oh my this will take a while.

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 2:11 p.m. CST

    looks like I&#39;ll be having a

    by The Heathen

    identity crisis!

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 2:16 p.m. CST

    Oh i forgot to mention i thought Heathen would be chubby too

    by El Vale

    With glasses. I do download my comics from that same site...that and Sometimes i can find stuff i didn&#39;t find at thepiratebay there. And 2) I do want to read Brubaker&#39;s Cap cause i&#39;ve heard great things and read a couple previews that i really liked. X-Men i&#39;m not so sure...might check it out but it doesn&#39;t seem like the kind of thing i&#39;d imagine him doing. So maybe that&#39;s a good thing, treading new ground. I love Bendis&#39; Daredevil almost anally, and i&#39;m looking forward to Brubaker&#39;s take on the character. Strikes me as the kind of thing he did when he took over Catwoman and you all know how much i love his Catwoman. Could be fact it could be my fave Daredevil ever.

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 2:24 p.m. CST

    i think it had to do

    by Darth Kal-El

    with you saying something along the lines of &#39;ill have to reveal myself but the heathen is out of shape&#39;or something like that where i thought u would be beefy.but what do i know?and hey we get &#39;lost&#39; tonight! any predictions?

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 2:28 p.m. CST

    i wonder if i&#39;m beefy

    by blackthought

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 2:32 p.m. CST

    I predict

    by El Vale

    I&#39;ll hate you all for having Lost tonight

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 2:55 p.m. CST

    and a kate centric episode too!

    by blackthought

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 3:04 p.m. CST

    The Heathen re: headache w/ all of DC&#39;s Crisis stuff at the

    by ComputerGuy68

    Not as big a pain as shingles, but close. I have gone to the DC comic message board and found a pretty detailed list for the entire crisis saga - the fellow by the name one_eye_ry keeps a current list there. Of the list he made, I have been able to obtain around half of them. I&#39;ve enjoyed the DC stuff that does not have a direct tie to crisis, i.e. Gotham Central, All Star Superman, Lex Luthor Man of Steel, Jonah Hex. Was going through some of the Superman stuff, (sacrifice for example) and realized I had no clue what was going on. So I stopped and have gone back to the beginning. TPB of Crisis on Infinite Earths started me off. I read the Identity Crisis series, then Day Of Vengeance, then The OMAC Project, and when I finished Villains United, I felt that I was still missing something. None if it felt fleshed out, then I saw the list with all the tie-ins, and now I am trying to get most of them to complete the story. The only section I think I will probably have problems is the original crisis tie-ins, but I think I got enough to understand the story.

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Kate centric?!

    by El Vale

    I hate you more

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 3:16 p.m. CST

    I predict

    by Shigeru

    I shall spend the rest of my day staring at Heathen&#39;s girlfriend on the internet. ......What?

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 3:38 p.m. CST

    you married bastard!!!

    by The Heathen

    Just kidding my bearded friend. Maybe you are the Joker?! But I take that as a compliment

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 4:01 p.m. CST


    by blackthought

    i&#39;m the only one who hasn&#39;t seen heathen&#39;s woman...that means i must email heathen.

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 4:14 p.m. CST

    yes, you must

    by The Heathen

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 5:09 p.m. CST

    yes you really must!

    by Darth Kal-El

    *glances at christina*

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 5:10 p.m. CST

    just for the record

    by Darth Kal-El

    when i thought u were beefy your pants area never came into my mind at all.

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 9:58 p.m. CST

    they make pants out of beef now?

    by blackthought

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 10 p.m. CST

    it&#39;s okay Kal-El

    by The Heathen

    you can admit it. "Beef, it&#39;s what&#39;s for dinner." Uh, oh look, a new column is up!

  • Nov. 30, 2005, 11:16 p.m. CST


    by blackthought

    whats that email addy again?

  • Dec. 1, 2005, 10:02 a.m. CST


    by The Heathen

  • Dec. 1, 2005, 10:56 p.m. CST


    by buster00

  • Dec. 2, 2005, 11:23 a.m. CST


    by The Heathen

  • Dec. 2, 2005, 11:57 p.m. CST

    gus eez. last?

    by Gus Nukem

  • Dec. 3, 2005, 12:15 p.m. CST

    mr. eko!

    by blackthought

  • Dec. 3, 2005, 1:27 p.m. CST

    echo echo

    by Gus Nukem

    last last

  • Dec. 4, 2005, 7:52 p.m. CST


    by blackthought

  • Dec. 6, 2005, 1:17 a.m. CST

    ronin ... ... ronin

    by Gus Nukem

    oops, spoiler

  • Dec. 6, 2005, 10:10 a.m. CST


    by Gus Nukem

    Can you recommend to me a few good bit torrent sites? A good torrent client as well - I was using bit tornado, but running bittorrent files from most sites would result in failing to d/l the file/folder I wanted. Most probably something to do with my adsl connection&#39;s inherent firewall, since I couldn&#39;t find a way to open ports for the bt client (-< Any advice?

  • Dec. 6, 2005, 1:30 p.m. CST


    by El Vale

    Well the only ones i recommend are the ones i&#39;ve been using and and i use a downloader called Azureus, which has actually not been working so great these last few days. i also have a firewall and it doesn&#39;t allow me to download as fast as i could, but still i can&#39;t complain because i&#39;ve downloaded SO much stuff. So yeah, good luck with that buddy

  • Dec. 6, 2005, 4:17 p.m. CST


    by Gus Nukem

    ... a lot

  • Dec. 6, 2005, 9:25 p.m. CST

    oh you kids...

    by blackthought

    and your downloading...first with was like DC++ something now with other stuff i presume with somethingsomething...hmmmm....banana bread.

  • Dec. 7, 2005, 12:07 a.m. CST

    dear blackthought

    by Gus Nukem


  • Dec. 7, 2005, 8 p.m. CST


    by Gus Nukem

    last, my sweet