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HBO's ROME!! Fall's Best New Drama Wraps Season One!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
“Pullo’s dead to me.”
Was there a scene in “Gladiator” as much fun as Titus Pullo and Lucius Vorenus bloodily schooling Pullo’s ill-mannered arena opponents near the conclusion of last week’s penultimate “Rome”?
It’s no more Mr. Nice Gaius tonight as Ciaran Hinds departs HBO’s acclaimed Sunday-night drama, which has elegantly evolved the famed Shakespeare history into a kind of pre-Jesus “Sopranos.”
If it’s not readily apparent that “Rome” is at its core a well-spoken gangster drama, replay Pullo’s “Murderer! Murderer! Murderer!” scene from “The Spoils.” When Titus drops his bloodied blade, it’s impossible not to think of Michael Corleone ditching his fingerprint-resistant revolver after capping McClusky and The Turk.
“Rome” is sixtysomething “Apocalypse Now” screenwriter John Milius’ first stab at producing a TV show, and boy, did he ever pick the right place to start! (Even if a far greater American audience would rather watch “Desperate Housewives.”)
HBO transmits the series' second season in 2007. Take up valuable bandwidth with your predictions and reactions.
9 p.m. Sunday. HBO.
Season sets selling new for just $19.97 per season!!
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At the current rate of a lot of shows, this side of never ...
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Heads rolling, legs slicing, arms flying, cow gutting,back stabbing,sister fucking,how-dare-you-want-the-slave-girl-I-want face smashing,porno-graffitti, and of course the ever popular lesbianisim....What more can you ask for in a show. Thanks HBO
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...is this the same "Rome" bullshit that has been clogging up UK airwaves? Surely not, UK TV both sucks and blows.
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If you're done having your baby chewed by dingos, I'm sure you can catch the finest TV shows on BitTorrent, provided you can stop watching water going round the drain the wrong way for long enough to download it. Here's a tip, TV is EZ.....
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I thought this was a joint production with the BBC, throw some thanks their way too, the Beeb is easily the best producers of costume drama there is.
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i wanna buy season 1
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rome is a co-production between HBO and the brits, just like Band of Brothers, except they're shooting in italy. so one would figure that it would take just as long to air in australia as Band of Bros. did, if not infinitely longer since it lacks the WWII appeal. here, in Canuckistan, the pay movie channel airs it on the same day as HBO, in between sopranos reruns. as for season one set for Rome, I'd say at least half a year, long enough for you to miss it, but not long enough for most people to go out of their way to download the entire season in a single bit torrent, which might be your best bet instead of trying to track them down individually. I tell ya, there was no freakin way I would've gotten into lost this season if not for bit torrent and the first season
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Nov 20, 2005 5:52:45 AM CST
Shit, we're still waiting for the second season of Carnivale
by monkey butler
So I doubt Rome is ever going to make it here. Although Deadwood made it to Austar/Foxtel, so maybe there's still a chance.
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so I've downloaded it instead. Without subtitles/commercials and in widescreen, THANK GOD! Getting the DVD on release day!
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Jesus holy shit Christ! Two years' wait in between seasons? Regardless, this was a fine show and fun to watch. One can only wish for more Servilia and Octavia scenes...
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Yes, this is, ostensibly, the same Rome being broadcast on the BBC, but, you should know that the Beeb is hacking the show to death because of all the gore, nudity, sex, and violence. Apparently they feel the British people can't handle watching a TV show they're funding. Excellent. If you're in the U.K., I highly recommend you download the show, rather than watch it in its censored format. Secondly, I have a feeling we're going to be disappointed on the Servilia/Octavia front. I think Servilia is probably going to meet her end tonight. I do hope they keep Atia though...especially naked. Yes, very, very naked. I'd also like to echo the sentiment that this series is ten times better than Gladiator, Alexander, and Troy. In closing, MORE CLEOPATRA. Naked. Please.
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Nov 20, 2005 7:52:28 AM CST
i thought all the prudish censorship in the bbc went out with ma
by spacesheik
geez thats depressing mate
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If I had my druthers, I would rather wait til 07, just keep up the quality. Do a draft, then another draft, then another, scrub it until it's squeaky clean. Don't rush it.
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As much as I like Max Pirkis as Octavian, he needs to be a little older for us to buy him as a Triumver (with Antony and whoever the other guy was; even Shakespeare forgot him!), and later as the most powerful Roman Emperor ever, Caesar Augustus.
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I have never seen anything more badass on television. Just freaking cringe-inducing action.
Pullo is now an all-time television badass. -
Even more than Lost which has been pretty blah the last couple episodes.
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When I saw that this episode was titled "The Kalends of February", I assumed that meant that there was another episode named "The Ides of March". But this is the season finale, right?
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Nov 20, 2005 9:05:37 AM CST
The most important thing we've learned from watching Rome
by twitchinmonkey
"Large Penis is Always Welcome"
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I've seen it. It was O.K. I'd rather they get some new Deadwoods on!
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I never cared for Gladiator and now I know why. It got off to a slow start but Rome is now almost as good as The Wire.
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Rome is HBO's biggest hit in years. It has scored the highest ratings for the network since the season finale of Sex and the City. The smart viewers out there seem to really like it and I'm happy that it will be returning.
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It's fucking great.
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It was only supposed to be one season. It was too expensive to make and thus was considered a mini-series.
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HBO thinks its popularity justifies the expense of another season. Thank god. Best show on television this year. I only wish it was a little gayer.
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This is a great show. I really can not wait for tonights episode. This episode is what I've been waiting for the entire season. It's a funny thing...I wanted to see Caesar get assassinated from the beginning of the series but now I don't want to see hime die. I love his character. I think that if HBO and the BBC could know that they were going to do a second season they wouldn't have put his assassination at the end of this season. Since they filmed the entire season before they aired one episode. I really think that Ciar
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Last week's episode put it over the top. It's now as good as any of the best shows the network has done...THIRTEEN!
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I stopped watching about half way through the season because I missed 2 or 3 episodes and thought I'd never be able to get caught up. But DAMN, I'm glad I decided to catch those 3 episodes back to back on Friday.
This show is amazing, and the acting is too sweet. If this show doesn't rule at the Emmy's something is horribly wrong. Rome and House are like the only good shows left on TV that I'll bother to watch.
AND FUCK...the battle scene was just...wow...
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It goes into production in March 2006, so, barring disaster, we'll get to see season two in early 2007.
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My God 2007? So it should come back on the air right about the time of the new episodes of Sopranos. HBO knows how to tighten the screws, huh?
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I just hope that by the time the second season airs more people will hear about it. If it does well with awards then I hope more people will get hbo and watch it. The 2007 air date, if it holds true, could be a good thing for the show. We'll have to wait and see how it does with the awards.
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DEADWOOD is much better. When are we going to get season three of DEADWOOD because the first two seasons rocked my world?
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Is scheduled for June 2006. And HBO sucks for cancelling Carnivale. And then saying that the season 2 DVDs have been out for the last two weeks even though they have not finished recording the commentary tracks...bastards, I tell you! BASTARDS!
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For weeks I avoided it, probably for the 1st nine weeks. Then one boring saturday I went on On Demand and had my own marathon. Awesome show. Loved how Vorenus & Pullo are gumping their way through major events of The Roman Empire. Loved how Ceasar is basically this phoney sociopath who's still has his own sense of respect and honor especially in the whole pompei situtation. Loved Atia and her Joan Collins schtick. Loved Octavian as the smartest person on the show. Most of all, love Vorenus' shit hot wife and the shit hot slave girl Pullo rescued, really want to see them both naked. Eh, there's always next season.
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That's right! No more Mr. Nice Gaius!!!
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HBO needs to do a Caligula mini-series now, with Bob Guccione taking over from John Milius
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Nov 20, 2005 5:20:09 PM CST
Hey Herc, I think your DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES bashing is counterpr
by lenny nero
I didn't watch the show originally, but because of your constant mention of the show and how everyone and their mother watches the show, I finally sat down and gave it a shot. Good job. The best way to hate something is to not talk about it, lest it attracts more attention.
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..but not nakes, or even remotely sexy (ok, being a girl I'm not the best judge but trust me).
That's at the Almeida in The Hypocondriac. Fairly good.
And the BBC re-cut the 1st 3 episodes into 2, chopping off the politics rather than the sex or nudity. Episode 4 (3 in the UK) seemed pretty intact.
Glad I didn't wait though. -
I just cant get into it. I love historical dramas, but this show is sooo plodding I keep dozing off watching it.
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Nov 20, 2005 6:56:55 PM CST
I love ROME, but imagine if it had been created by David Milch
by razorback
Milch actually pitched ROME as his series but HBO was already involved committed to the current series, so DM created DEADWOOD. As much as I love the current ROME series, I can just imagine how much better it would have been with DM had the helm.
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It's an entertaining interpretation of the character, but he's basically a frat boy with no emotional heft. In real life, Antony's eulogy for Caesar did a lot to stir up the mob against the conspirators (you know, the "Friends, Romans, countrymen" speech). I don't see how the actor playing Antony can pull off that speech, or rather the more colloquial translation of it we can expect from the show.
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Will be about Antony and Cleopatra's relationship and there eventual destruction by Octavian? Hmmm...sounds good...the more Cleopatra the better, I like the show's interpretation of her character. Even though Rome tries it best to show how decadent the Romans were then, I have a hunch it was FAR worse than what we've seen. I'm sure the AICN historians know a bit about the decadence of the real Rome. So, is Rome accurate in its depiction of the decadence of the time? It cracked me up when Octavian nailed his sister..who's hot..and how it's really not that big of deal to his mother. "You fucked your sister you pervert!" Two minutes later she doesn't care anymore. I think only in Alabama could you fuck your sister and your family members treat it so nonchalancely.
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I get the idea that this isn't Shakespeare's play, but if the first words out of Antony's mouth are not "Friends, Romans, Countrymen...", I will be very disappointed. Rather than try to write around it, the producers might as well realize everyone is expecting it and go for it.
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Rome is the biggest disappointment in HBO's history... comparing it to Sopranos or Deadwood is sacreligious... if they had debuted this with a lead-in of ANY of HBO's other dramas this would have been laughed off the screen. The cliched plot, the lack of explosive characters, the dull pace... I mean, come on, you're telling me that ANY of the characters on this show rates the equivalent of a Tony Soprano, an Al Swearengen, a Jimmy McNulty, an Omar, a Nate Fisher, a Brother Justin????? Well, if so I envy you because you're higher than I am right now, motherfucker!!!! On another note, HBO is screwing us over yet again, with no new programming until the Sopranos debut in March, and then making us wait until SEPTEMBER for the best show ever made, The Wire. Oh, but wait, they already cancelled Carnivale, so we should be used to getting fucked in the ass.
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is that in nude scenes, all the naked roman women have finely trimmed beav's. I doubt that is "period correct"
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It is 'period correct'. They waxed and plucked back then and Caesar had one person who's sole job was to pluck his body hairs.
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That's unfortunate, because all during the final scene you can tell Octavian is thinking, "Someday I am going to beat this bitch to death with a pipe." They might have to stray from history a bit, because otherwise Brutus and Cassius will die by suicide and Servilia will die of old age, and that means that Octavian won't get to beat ANY of them with a pipe. And that would be a disappointment.
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...Although, I doubt Servillia had as much influence in real life as her character does in the show. She might have. Its not THAT far-fetched. But, I think it has more to do with our need to see or think of women today (whether they're real or fictional characters) as ruthless, badasses. Either way, I think Servillia the character DESERVES to meet an untimely death. Perhaps from the one and only Brutus? "Et tu, Brute?" "Oh yes mother, you manipulative WHORE!"
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Haven't you ever heard of great Caesar's ghost? :-)
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Was it just me, or were any of you disappointed when Marc Anthony came into the senate towards the end and didn't do ANYTHING? He totally could of killed ALL their asses without so much as a stick. I know its not how history went but, COME ON! They were all PUSSIES. He should have just looked around, did a dramatic pose, and went apeshit on all of them. THEN, he really could of been ruler of everyone. But, oh no. We get Pullo and his slave walking into the distance?? Because, like, all he did was murder her fiance in cold blood. No big thing. HE-REPENTED-TO-A-LITTLE-STATUE. All is forgiven. Octavian better return next season as some grown-up Conan the Barbarian and kill EVERYBODY'S asses. . . before fucking his sister again. MADNESS.
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Nov 20, 2005 9:54:28 PM CST
It's just a good thing there's going to be a 2nd season.
by fluffyunbound
Because to both Antony and Octavian I nearly talked to the screen at the end: "SAY SOMETHING, Douchebag!" It would have been very frustrating to end the series that way, without either of them at least getting a word in. But now that there's a 2nd season, I look forward to much asskickery. Anybody remember the scene where Mark Antony grabbed Cicero's hands and gave him the warning? Warm up the graphic violence warning card.
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Nov 20, 2005 10:15:15 PM CST
You have no clue what your talking about Nate Champion...
by movieman742
What cliched plot. Rome centers on 2 Roman soldiers and follows them through Roman history. Although they change a few things to fit them into the grand scheme of things. And if you want to see explosive characters all you need to do is watch Servillia scenes. Also, Caesars scenes are very forcefull. What is your definition of "explosive"? Thier scenes are very strong in their own right. You don't have to eplode to show emotional weight. But I guess you do when you have no clue how drama works.
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Okay, I understand that it isn't quite up to the level of Deadwood. But then, the only show that has yet managed to be as good as Deadwood is Deadwood. It's the best show ever. Rome feels like Deadwood's spiritual cousin in many respects, and I wish the schedules worked out so I could watch new episodes back to back on Sunday nights, giving me a great historical violence rush. However, the character of Titus Pullo is pretty magnificent. He may not be up to Al Swerengen or Tony Soprano levels of greatness (yet) but really, who the hell is? Not to mention Vorenus, Caesar, Antony, Atia, and Octavian. Or half a dozen other people on the show (lets say Cicero, Octavia, Servilia, Niobe, Cleopatra and the jowly guy who reads the news). That beats Carnivale, thats for damn sure. Carnivale had what, Brother Justin and the midget? And another thing-I ain't one to piss all over an HBO show, especially one that people love, but how is Rome slow and plodding and Carnivale is not? I wanted to love that show and I just had to ultimately give up on it. To each his own, but Rome had the speed and energy of Pulp Fiction compared with Carnivale.
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Nov 20, 2005 11:00:18 PM CST
Loved how Vorenus & Pullo are gumping their way through major ev
by smackfu
Actually technically speaking, they are 'Rosencrantz and Guildenstern-ing their way through the major events of the Roman Empire'...
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anyone who does not appreciate the glory of all these great HBO shows is a cock. With the possible exception of that Lisa Kudrow smeg.
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This was by far my favorite show of the year, and became more and more of an obsession for me as the season went on. I just wish they had strung out the plot of this season to two. Several episodes (Egypt, the finale) seemed incredibly rushed. I WANTED MORE CAESAR! (I also really liked Pompeii and the old rebel senator) Oh well, at least this means more screen time for Octavian, who was underutilized. Brutus' coconspirators were about the only lame characters in the bunch. Maybe they can do a prequel, or an anime version, to hold us over. Weren't you really longing for "et tu, Brute?" though? (thank you to the Rome bashers for mostly staying out of this talkback)
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So much incredible drama. Wow!!!
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There must have been more story to tell about Caesar's reign rather than jump to his assaination to end season 1. I'll still watch another season but I suspect it won't be as good without him. Just like "Deadwood". Although it still managed to be great after killing off Wild Bill, it was at whole different level with him and there was lots more of his story that could have been explored before killing him off.
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You dumb asswipes, this story was already almost 2000 years old by the time shakespeare turned it into a Sopranos episode..read pliny or Livy you dorks...if you compare this to sopranos then you are just a tv watching fool who writes for a lame website.
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Things to do when you are trying to restore the Republic: slay the Tyrant. Things not to do when you are trying to restore the Republic: threaten the mother of Caesar's calculating, genius nephew with a slow and painful death. For bonus points, do this in his presence and then let him leave.
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Nov 21, 2005 7:48:00 AM CST
Actually, the Sopranos is probably the best show you can compare
by fluffyunbound
The late Republic was essentially run by a collection of mob families. The Senate was a fancy-dress version of the Apalachin meeting. You know the scene at the beginning of THE GODFATHER where Brando sits at his desk and people come up to him one at a time to "pay their respects" and ask for favors? The roots of that tradition go all the way back to the patron/client system in ancient Italy. You know the scene in GOODFELLAS where the camera pans to each of the gangsters in the restaurant in turn, and the narration tells us a little about them and gives us their nickname? That's basically just a modern version of the cognomen system in Ancient Rome. Half of the Roman names you know from history come from gangster-style nicknames: "Hairy", "Cross-Eyes", "Lucky", "German-Killer", "Tiny", etc. I'm surprised they didn't have a "Tony Two-Times".
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...revere all these HBO shows and tune into them week after week- I have to question some of their decisions. 1)- No new Sunday programming after Curb's finale until March? Why? Big Love's whole first season was almost entirely in the can- and then it was pushed to June- and then... 2)- Deadwood's third season is now pushed back- even though its production was still on schedule for March- it's pushed back to June- so that they could move Big Love BACK again in time to March- following the Sopranos- this sucks for several reasons- A)- David Milch has stated he likes being on a tight schedule and to return the same time each year- now he's thrown off three months to give Big Love a Sopranos sized lead in. B)- HBO just ruined their chances of having at least ONE show that could return each year at the same time. 3)- If any show needs a better marketing strategy it's the Wire- arguably the best show on television and hardly watched. 4)- and this makes this whole rant relevant to this board- NOW CHRIS ALBRECHT IS SAYING THAT ALTHOUGH THEY APPROVED A ROME SEASON II- IT IS SOMEHOW NOT DEFINITE. This MUST have some credence to it because I read it in the same article in which I read that Big Love was taking Deadwood's March slot- and sure enough, watching HBO last night there was ads for Big Love coming in March. HBO- great programming. Horrendous sheduling/marketing decisions. That said- Rome was great- especially the last two episodes- and Curb was hands down the funniest Curb I've yet seen- justified the whole season.
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to think that Servilia would tell Atia and Octavian about the assassination while it's in progress? She had no idea that her servant had gotten through to Vorenus. Interesting dramatically, but not very realistic for such a shrewd operator.
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You definitely have an argument for the nonexistent battle scene- which left many heads shaking- But that either proves that you watched the show up until that point- in which SOMETHING was holding your interest- or you tuned in late- making you not realistically qualified to judge this show "crap". Other than that- your historically inaccurate complaint is shit- since this is after all a TELEVISION SHOW. To see the ACTUAL events may prove to be quite prolonged, dull, and confusing. The way I see it- unless you're a history teacher wanting to play the season for your students studying Rome- there is no reason to whine like a preschool girl about historical inaccuracies. It's meant to be entertainment. If you watched all of Rome- and you were not entertained like the rest of us- then the only thing called into question are your tastes- to which I admit being quite dubious of. Scrotum.
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You'd have to show me a production set in this time period that was more historically accurate than this one to give that criticism any real bite. And that's hard to do. I mean, there are lots of Caesar-centric films out there, and almost none of them even contain the WORDS "Alesia" or "Vercingetorix". That sets a pretty low bar for accuracy. And the show definitely makes the most sincere effort at credibly creating the physical and cultural environment of Rome that I've ever seen. There are anachronisms, sure - but there's also real effort there to include elements of Roman religion, street life, cuisine, costume, and family custom that are utterly - utterly - absent from other "sword and sandal" productions. And even most of the more glaring inaccuracies are "glass is half full" situations: For example, the whole "Pullo finds the treasury and buries it" subplot was invented - but at least the writers were aware of the fact that Pompey left the treasury behind, and that this event was extremely important. How many other productions covered that in a more historically accurate way? And sure, the writers exactly reverse the strategic and supply situation at Pharsalus, and that makes it look like Caesar was almost beaten but staged a desperate battle to save his forces, when it was actually Pompey who was out of supplies and had to roll the dice and hope for the best that day - but how many military history productions not set in Stalingrad ever even mention supply in the first place? And the writers did show how the presence of Cato and the other Senators fucked up Pompey's command, which was more than I expected to see. Considering the fact that most Roman-era productions outside of "I, Claudius" are complete fantasies, this show isn't doing so bad.
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How about we get our final season of Carnivale instead? I'm not about to subscribe completely unkowing whether HBO is going to finish the story or leave me on a cliffhanger.
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I think the guy who was concerned about MA not being able to pull of the eulogizing chops, will be pleasantly surprised. Did you see the look on his face last night after seeing Caesar's body? Realization set in. The "frat boy" thing is actually dead on. Of course, up until this point, he had no real reason to be "serious." Now that he sees the severity of the situation, I've got a feeling that he'll rise to the occasion quite nicely. Nobody had the "banter" with Caesar that MA did. Caesar's death will change MA into a much more serious adversary. You could see the glimpse of that on his face at the end of last nights episode....
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Nov 21, 2005 9:53:01 AM CST
And another nod to the Soprano's from the Rome crew....
by chest_rockwell
Did anyone see the scene in last weeks episode (the one where the Pullo/Vorenus arena scene is) where Erastes (the guy who is the "mobster" who hired Pullo to kill peeps) and his thugs are sitting around, and Erastes is eating eels? And the one guy says, "They disappear every year." And Erastes' other thug says, "Where?" Thug 1 says something like "Where what?" And thug 2 says, "the eels. where do they go?" And thug 1 says, "that's the thing. Nobody knows." Just change the characters like this. Erastes is Tony, Thug 1 is Paulie Walnuts, and thug 2 is Chris or even someone like Bobby. You can see them saying the same exact lines.
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Nov 21, 2005 10:25:31 AM CST
Lemmiwinks, you're simply wrong. I think virtually any acad
by fluffyunbound
Your post is actually much more guilty of simplification. Rome was never a democracy. And the great codifications of Roman law were still in the future when ROME opens. Actually, the practice of Roman law during the Republic enhances the "gangster" metaphor and does not subtract from it. One root of the "patron" system was the fact that originally, Roman law was unwritten, and knowledge of it was considered the province of the patrician families; who also made up all juries, and filled all the magistracies. That meant that if you weren't a patrician, you had to attach yourself to a patrician family as a quasi-retainer, so that if you were ever involved in a legal dispute you would have access to someone who knew the law and who could speak to the magistrate and jury on the basis of rough equality. In practice, this meant that Roman legal disputes looked less like our own court proceedings than they looked like mob "sits" - if you needed something, you would go to your "don" and explain it to him, and he would go negotiate your case with the other "dons". If you have a society organized into competing extended families that habitually engage in inter-family violence to advance or protect their economic interests, and in that society the line between these family conflicts and politics itself often becomes very nebulous, and you then throw general administrative corruption into the mix, well - you're going to have something that makes the use of mafia metaphors very easy. Especially given the deeply encoded cultural survivals of ancient Rome and Etruria that are all over Italian culture, including the customs of the Cosa Nostra.
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Nov 21, 2005 10:35:30 AM CST
After finishing ROME Season 1, it's becoming alarmingly appa
by r.c. the "wise"
It's too bad the economics do not allow many of those without cable to grasp and experience the level of programming superiority.
Man, August 06 is a long time to wait for another season of ROME but I'm down.
I'd say that ROME is on my Top 5 best HBO shows ever. Behind of course, the Sopranos and Curb your Enthusiasm. I'd put it somewhere between The Wire and Entourage. The 5th on my list would probably be the Larry Sanders Show. -
Why do some people who post on talkbacks consistently slam all talkbackers, as if they're not one of them? You'd be surprised that many of us have advanced degrees and real jobs, ESPECIALLY those who've been watching Rome. Despite the inevitable historical inaccuracies (geez, did Shakespeare have to deal with this?), I found that Rome did an excellent job of communicating history as something real and fleshed out -- difficult to do in a history book.
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When did Caesar say it, cause I missed. Thanks! Loving this show big time. My only complaint is the heavy handed British colloquialisms. "The 13th? Bollocks! Bunch of Mollys, the whole bloody lot of you" is the worst, yet not only example. I understand that this is a BBC production, but for all the griping here about "keeping it real" I'm suprised this hadn't been mentioned yet.
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Nov 21, 2005 11:57:33 AM CST
I think that Max Pirkis may be one of the most underrated actors
by razorback
The fact that the kid is only 16 and yet pulls off such a brilliant Octavian --not to mention his superb protrayal of Blakeney in MASTER AND COMMANDER, when he was only 14-- makes me excited about the growth of his character in the coming seasons. We know what happens to Octavian, so the future of this actor is very interesting (for those who do not know, Octavian grew up to be one badass mofo). It is good to see the story so many know finish. Now we can get to the history of Rome many do not know... what I think is far more interesting than a little stabbing in the senate.
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Nov 21, 2005 11:59:06 AM CST
What?!? Caesar dies!!!??? Herc you spoiled it for me!!!
by -guyinthebackrow
On the Senate floor?! Is it anything like the Yoda and Sidious battle?
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ENTOURAGE/ROME (HBO) - In an interview with The New York Times, HBO chairman Chris Albrecht confirmed "Entourage's" third season will run for 20 episodes. In addition, Albrecht noted the earliest "Rome" could return for its second season would be March of 2007. The freshman drama wraps its inaugural run this weekend.
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I guarantee you that Verenus will show up to get Caesar to a medic in time. I thought it was gonna be Pullo who saves him, but Verenus is the only one close enough. Although Octavian is likable enough, he's definately done for early next season. I'm surprised they didn't do him in last night. Caesar may survive, be he'll be recovering most of the season (Al Swearengen style), leaving his allies as open targets. ........ Seriously though, it sucked about Niobe. This is a great show and it easily ranks up there with the Sopranos. I still think that HBO sucks Pluto's thorny cock for cancelling Carnivale, but at least they replaced it with an even better show. I so wish they'd get out of the movie business and devote their full resources to quality shows. Free network TV obviously can't cut it. HBO should never let a Sunday go by without a new episode of something (good). I hope the long wait until next season is just because they didn't know if they were gonna have one. They best not be on Sopranos time. ........ By the way, because of these talkbacks, I watched a couple eps of Curb your Enthusiam and I still think that show does a great job of doing exactly that. There's no humor to be had there. Not even bad humor, it's just flat. Don't get what you guys see in it.
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"Et tu Brute" was Shakespeare's embellishment. Witnesses stated that Ceasar either said nothing or that he said "And you, my child" when he saw Brutus. He then covered his face and died.
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When you look at the contrast between the M&C role and the Rome role, it's too bad Pirkis wasn't around years ago to take Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christiansen's place.
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Nov 21, 2005 1:34:00 PM CST
Where are the fucking big battles? At least show us a basic cg m
by filmrage
I love Rome but it really jacks me off that they take the highbrow desicion to 'not focus on the army'. Bull, they had some nice hacking and gore so it's not an anti violence thing. There were some key battles int he story and they couldnt be arsed even rendering a long show to show us the type of formations and numbers that were involved. Even if they didn't show us the 'Pompie v Ceasar' battle I would have liked to have gotten a peep at the size and scale of the 3 to 1 civil war. I say they are jackasses for thinking they could take in the scale of mighty rome with and ignore the armies. It's not a frikkin small town stage they are showing it on or anything. . . . Still, a nice production.
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The little arena 'execution' scene with Pullo pretty much rocked because they did a pretty good job of making the viewer feel for the people involved. I felt that dumb assed Giants pain as he got it from the shoulderblade to the sphincter. Also the choriography was shot in such a way that you saw the physics and the angles of the action. . . . . . Gladiator on the othe hand was actually filmed with 'implied' action. A kind of dishonest and lazy way of shooting a fight scene. What Scott did was edit flashes and bits of action in such a way that you couldn't actually follow the lines and tradjectorys of the weapons thrusts and parrys etc. Then before you know it Maximus opponents slump to the ground as he turns his back on them and walks smuggly away. They were manipulative scenes shot to totally imply that something cool had just happened without actually demonstrating it. I hated every bit of Gladiator. Crow mumbled his way through it and Scott shot it like it was a Two hour car comercial or something. THATS why Pullos little defense of the honour of the 13th was so cool.
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Kudos to HBO/BBC. What more could you want? Sex. Violence. Intrigue. Scenery-chewing. I half expected to see Krystle Carrington in a toga.
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Did anyone say that Gladiator was better?
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What a train wreck. I couldn't even watch the whole thing, I thought I'd Tivo'd Clash of the Titans by accident.
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Jeesh, I thought they'd pace that out another two seasons. But then I suspected things were up when I heard Cleopatra was already featured. I've only seen a few episodes from the beginning of the season when it seemed like they were going to take a little slower. This'll be an interesting DVD box set in another year or two.
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It's not even worth addressing the points so many of you put forth. This is a marvellous, lush, compelling historical drama. It's also a hell of a lot of fun. And the events happen, as Master Shake said, in real time! It's not Shakespeare and if you're a Roman scholar I've sure there are points that have been omitted or embellished for dramatic effect, but that's true of any story that find its way to film. I love Deadwood and I love this show. Carnivale was painfully slow by comparison. Why is it so many people on here seem to seek out and lionize shows that get cancelled? I don't get it. Just because a show is cancelled does not make it a work of genius ahead of its time. Rome is great fun and Titus Pullo is a tremendous character. In fact, all the acting was exception in this series. Especially the exchanges between Servilia and Atia. And I love the fact that I know what is going to happen historically but that paths they take and the weird little nuances that take place are delightful and fresh. Great show. I hate that Servilia bitch and can't wait for her to get it.
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Hey...comparing that to Clash of the Titans is an insult to Clash of the Titans. Apologize or Ray Harryhausen will let loose the Kraken on you.
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Damn,that episode with Cleopatra was the best one all season.It was great watching her stroll up to her brother/husband Ptolemy's throne with Caesar...Servilia sucks and I hope Atia and Octavian shove an eel up her ass.....
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This is one of my favorites. As far as big budget Hollywood flicks go, I call this one my biggest guilty pleasure. How can it be trash next to Alexander or Troy or any other epic since Braveheart?
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If the pacing of "Rome" was too quick for you, perhaps you can go back to watching "Lost".
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"In real life, Antony's eulogy for Caesar did a lot to stir up the mob against the conspirators (you know, the "Friends, Romans, countrymen" speech)."
You realize that speech was Shakespeare not real life? -
I'm not a big fan of Troy except I felt the battle sequences were well handled. One talkbacker commented how in Gladiator the battle scenes were so heavily stylized and edited that you really couldn't tell what was happening. Sort of Scott's way of showing the confusion of war. In Troy, at least, you could clearly see what was happening in all of the battle sequences, which I found refreshing in our MTV chop-it-all-up age. Besides that the movie was lackluster, but Petersen can shoot one helluva battle.
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That's about $60 I'm gonna save when I cancel HBO for the next 3 months
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Nov 21, 2005 7:03:54 PM CST
True that JohnnyLong! Speaking of Cleopatra. Ooowee that actre
by r.c. the "wise"
"...that's good c*nt!"
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Shakespeare left such a mark on the planet that it's difficult to separate. I knew about the "Friends, Romans," line but not this one, especially given that it's in Latin.
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Loved the last episode. Finally Servillia takes her place as the most dangerous woman in Rome. It all comes together...and connects with the countless promo ads which featured her voice-over saying, "Shall I be merciful? I think not." Which was said over a game of Roman checkers or something with Caesar. Can't wait for the next season. Or, I guess, I'll have to wait.
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..just left his vagina next to his pat boone records....and serisoly folks, Ceaser draping his dying face with his last dignity, and Brutus's reaction was oscar worthy, and touching...
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It's such a shame that it only got 12 episodes and to make it worse have to wait over a year to see the story continued. I'm constantly impressed by how well the writers have woven history and drama together, (with the odd exception allowed for artistic licence), I would have prefered it if the writers had better portrayed Brutus' role in Caesars murder; showing us that he was a more willing participant in the attack instead of a man coerced and manipulated by his bitter mother and friends. As it was though it was still an incredible episode and a fitting end to the season of what i hope will be first of many.
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Need to see I, Claudius if you haven't seen it yet.
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Nov 21, 2005 10:27:15 PM CST
How can you hate a show where the virtuous are punished and the
by cookylamoo
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Shakespeare fictionalized much of the speech for his play, but it did still happen in real life and it was historically significant. I was referring to it out of convenience.
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Nov 21, 2005 11:10:49 PM CST
YackBacker, "and blowjobs were a form of currency as I recall"
by immortal_fish
What, and they aren't now? Guess that depends on what your definition of 'is' is.
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Nov 22, 2005 12:46:37 AM CST
Albrecht from HBO is making "cancellation" noises about Rome.
by annoyyou
Yeah. He says he greenlighted the second season, but doesn't know if he'll greenlight *production.* Asshat. He allowed the whiny and mediocre "Six Feet Under" to grind on for what? five, six years? -- but he's waffling on a truly superior series like "Rome." Now I'm going to have to write a cajoling letter to the PtB at HBO and I *hate* doing that. But I gotta have me some more Pullo, Vorenus and Octavian sometime...
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The BBC hasn't taken out the sex and violence from their version of "Rome," but rather the exposition about certain historical events -- they feel the Brtitish public is sufficiently familar with classical Roman history that they don't need everything spelled out (however, ill-educated Americans do, so all that stuff was left in our version of "Rome").
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Roger you are right, the battles do look better in Troy than in Gladiator or Alexander and the Hector V Achilles fight is ace but . . . . . the mentality is rediculous. Two examples. The Trojians have a stupendously massive walled city that has never been breached but for cinematic purposes it looks better if they field their army in front of the walls ouside rather than safely behind and inside as is historically accurate. What a stupid scene. Then, the all conquering Greeks who vastly outnumber the Trojians attack them but get slaughtered and the comander says "oh because Achilles and his 100 or so Murmadans arn't part of the '100,000 a side' battle we are losing. Movies like that are an insult to even teenage intelligence never mind adults.
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Is that the 'plebs' are used to their drama being clean and proper along the lines of Holby City or Spooks; no tits, no Sex and no cursing. I always knew the show would be ill recieved here because the problem Rome faces in the UK is that it will be too high brow for the people who wouldn't mind or even appreciate its explicit nature and too common and crude for the people who you'd thing would appreciate it.
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Holy shit, I didn't even say I was upset, just surprised. Maybe you need to get "Lost" or learn to lighten the fuck up!
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Channel 7 on Thursday nights over the summer in Australia. This is confirmed. Rumour - it will be edited!
9.30pm time slot as well. -
The success of the mega-CGI scenes in LOTR made it a given that any big-budget "sword" movie HAD to feature massive CGI armies, and the Iliad as a whole makes NO FUCKING SENSE with massive CGI armies. If they had attempted to recreate the way battles take place in Homer, they could have done it largely without CGI, and the themes of the poem would actually have matched the action. Homeric heroism, loyalty, the immortality of fame, etc., function better at a certain scale, and that scale was swamped by the "Let's try to have MASSIVE battles" approach the makers of Troy got boxed into. Of course, 90% of the rest of the production design of Troy was all wrong, and there were loads of other problems with the acting, writing, etc., but a lot of those can also be traced to the determination of the filmmakers to "upsize" the Trojan War. There didn't really have to be 1000 ships, fellows.
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I'm a big fan of Maddox Roberts SPQR books and according to him there were some very powerful aristocratic plebian families (his hero, Decius, comes from one of them) In fact, to further your political career, some Patricians would allow themselves to be adopted Plebian. How come the plebs on "Rome" get sniffed at?
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Nov 22, 2005 9:44:13 AM CST
P.S. If blowjobs were used as currency, how did they make chang
by cookylamoo
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That means it will be cancelled, since HBO is not going to foot the bill for this show by themselves. The production costs have to be astronomical, what with the actual filming in Rome and all. If HBO is pussyfooting with David Chase and Gandolfini about $$$, then they will let Rome go.
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HBO has simplified the complex set of class distinctions present in Rome at this time. I guess they wanted to make them easier to follow, and in some instances they wanted to change characters slightly for dramatic purposes. For example, the issue of class is raised when Brutus tells Pompey that he is lower class, and it's presented as a simple patrician / plebeian distinction - but the "problem" with Pompey had more to do with the fact that Pompey's family came from a region outside of Rome proper, and that his father had basically bullied his way into Roman politics and society with money and military force. If you were Brutus, you would look at Pompey as a sort of nouveau immigrant [it's not exactly the same, but it's close]. That is why the issue of Pompey's marriage was important - whether he married someone from Caesar's family or from the Metellan gens, either way it was a social step up for him. // There are other instances where class is introduced as a concept in an inconsistent way: Cicero was also a parvenu, so making him the mouthpiece for the sanctity of the Senate seemed an odd choice. And closer examination of class issues would have made it more clear why Caesar was considered such a threat; his "bloodline" was high enough that it was considered a literal possibility that he might establish a monarchy if he accumulated enough power. Since the show leaves that out, it makes it look like only pure power politics were at stake, and it was a little more convoluted than that. And Mark Antony was already part of the Julii, so Atia's "offer" to marry him to raise his social station was somewhat empty; Antony did have a "frat boy" reputation, and his father had been something of a political and military fuckup, but his lineage was not a political handicap in the way the show is making it appear. But this is again an instance where, to me, addressing the issues of class is a step in the direction of realism and accuracy, and changing up the details of some of the individual characters is less important than embedding the concept itself in the drama. And it's important to remember that all these "shades of distinction" among the upper classes tended to become less important when you started looking at the society as a whole; Brutus might look down his nose at Pompey, but ALL of these characters would have thought themselves socially superior to, say, Pullo.
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The issue of the missing treasury aside, I've read that Caeser beat Pompey because he was a much better general. According to Roberts, Pompey pretty much made his military reputation fighting pirates. Caeser simply outfought him. By the way, if any of you enjoy Rome, I highly recommend the SPQR novels by John Maddox Roberts, especially the first one, "Nobody Loves a Centurian", and "The Tribune's Curse." These novels enhanced my appreciation of Rome immesurably.
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will be great if they even take a shred of what happend and use it. antony and octavian joining forces to kill and hunt down the conspirators then have their falling out and antony joins up with cleopatra (and leaves his wife octavia). its only just beginning. be interesting to see what they do with pullo and vorenus.
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I have seen more than 3 talkbacks that have actually praised Rome. Usually the talkbacks are nothing but bashing. I'm suprised they're not called bashbacks. Personally, I have really enjoyed Rome. It started out slow, but the last two episodes of the season were fabulous. I look foward to more.
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That sucks, I really wanted to see Marc Antony stop being a frat boy and kick ass.
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Man I just love Pullo. What a riot that guy is and he is played beautifully. Assuming there is a season 2 (I fervently hope), wonder what Pullo's reaction is going to be when he finds out Niobe is dead and why she died. He is so loyal to Vorenus, wonder if he will take some vengeance out of Servilia's ass.....
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Nov 23, 2005 8:42:04 AM CST
I'm wondering where the Niobe death storyline goes, too.
by fluffyunbound
Although I'll bet the season isn't even written yet, so I suppose no one knows. Will Vorenus figure out that Pullo knew? What would his reaction to that be? Will anyone Pullo realize that the story went from Octavian to Octavia to Servilia to Vorenus? If he does, what will his reaction be? Assuming Octavian figures out what has happened, will he give a damn? After all, sometimes he sociopathically doesn't give a shit, but he seems to have a soft spot for Vorenus and Pullo. There are lots of ways they can take this storyline - or they can just say Vorenus has no idea who it was who told him or why, and the storyline might never go anywhere.
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Are you sure about the strategic/supply situation at the time of Pharsalus? Wasn't it true that Pompey preferred a more Fabian approach, that he wanted to use time and fight a war of attrition, but reluctantly offered Caesar a major battle because of the pressure put on him by the Senators on his side who wished to end the war quickly? Wasn't it so that while Caesar did manage to alleviate his own supply problems with the retreat into Thessaly, that it was only a temporary fix? Wasn't it so that Pompey, with a superior navy and proximity to his supporters in the East, had a much better supply situation, and actually had a good chance at starving Caesar into submission had he simply stuck with that approach? Maybe I misread what you said, or maybe I didn't and I'm wrong about this, but I've never read where Pompey was the one who needed to fight a decisive battle.
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It was a shame that with a $100 million dollar budget, they still couldn't afford to recreate at least one key battle, and more Caesar throughout the first season would have been welcome, but overall the pluses easily outweigh the minuses. For the most part they were faithful to the overall, general events and timeline of history, and some of the deviations were put to good dramatic effect. Octavian, for example, was not in Rome at the time of Caesar's assassination, but that alteration was worth it because of the great look that he gives Servilia at the end of the show. I do wish they had mentioned Caesar's planned war against Parthia, because his imminent departure for it was one of the reasons the conspirators had to act when they did, or risk losing their chance for many years. I did find the Servilia-Octavia sapphic fling to be weak, because the actresses clearly weren't into it.
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Caesar in his commentaries [and he may have been putting a better face on the situation than was actually the case] reports that both armies were adequately supplied with corn, but Pompey's army had been swelled to such an unwieldy size that a war of maneuver - of marches and countermarches - was no longer really an option for him. And although Pompey had plenty of supplies for his men, his biggest advantage was in cavalry, and he had great ongoing difficulties finding enough forage for his horses and pack animals. Although the Optimate senators with Pompey famously did put forth inordinate pressure for a major engagement [the show is pretty accurate in that respect] and Pompey's command group as a whole were ridiculously overconfident, Pompey needed an engagement, and had to know it.
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Something about your post was gnawing at the back of my mind, Aetius, so I decided to look it up. And I was applying some of the details of the previous battle at Durazzo to Pharsalus inappropriately. Pompey was not having a cavalry forage problem at the time after all. The two battles had run together in my memory. My bad.
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All questions I have been pondering myself. My friend and I think that in season 2, Pullo and Vorenus will kind of switch places. Vorenus may fall apart and hit the bottle pretty hard prompting Titus to step in and take care of the family, etc....
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