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Ed's Seen NARNIA!!

Hi, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab...

Who? Ed! Ed, damn you! If a guy named Ed sees it and signs off on it, then it’s a done deal. If you can't trust Ed, then who can you trust? Ed’s everyman. Ed’s the average guy. And, like the headline says... Ed’s seen NARNIA:

Hey guys,

I attended what we were told by the producer of the movie was the first ever public screening of “The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe” last Saturday. Before the Narnia fanboys attack me, I’ve only read one of the books in the series (TLTWTW) so my perspective is probably different from yours.

When I saw the trailer for the movie months ago, I wasn’t really sold on the talking animals. Some of the effects looked TOO clean if that makes any sense. They just looked like elements that could be so silly and absurd in a movie that they expect grownups to actually watch. But the CGI works light years better in the finished product. You completely buy into the Narnia universe, mainly because of the fantastic Mr. Tumnus who really comes alive as a character and not just a hoofed cartoon. Also, the CGI work on his legs is amazing; I found myself almost distracted by it (somewhat disturbingly), trying to figure out how they did it. Another questionable element from the trailer, the Beavers, managed to be a pleasant surprise. They add some humor (not in the Gimli falling off the horse way though). Also, the CGI on them was very good too.

Originally I thought this movie would make it or break it based on the battle scene, and it is a super important scene in the film. The number of creatures is plain staggering, from Cyclops to Cheetahs to Minotaurs to Gryphons to…things I didn’t even know the names of. It was fun to just look through the crowd and try to pick out all the species. Bravo to the creature shop boys at WETA. One thing that didn’t really work for me was the arrival of Santa Claus in the middle of the story, which seems like Tom Bombadil in the Fellowship of the Ring book: a strange element that sort of feels out of place. With the Fellowship movie, they axed Tom; here, they keep Santa. As is, it’s as painless as an appearance by St. Nick can be in a movie like this, but it’s still a little awkward. I know I know fanboys, the story is about the 100 year winter with no Christmas, so they had to have Santa.

As for the child actors, they are all pretty fucking amazing, but the kid playing Edmund comes out the best. His character seemed like the toughest role as changes the most throughout the story, and the actor pulls it off well. You totally buy him as a greedy brat and a reformed loyal brother.

There’s a couple scenes added to the film that aren’t in the book. One is a fantastic battle with the wolves on a frozen waterfall that is among the most badass action sequences shot on film this year. I’ll say no more about that scene, other than that it added a lot to Peter’s journey towards using his sword, and made his transition from normal boy to swordsman much more believable and less abrupt. In fact, it was clear to see that most of the additions to the story had a solid purpose in adapting the story to film. I’m sure some people will still complain about the new material just because it wasn’t in the book, but I think it helps the story work as a movie.

Overall, it’s an excellent movie with some minor flaws which might even be touched up further before release I expect. The audience seemed to really dig it, so I expect we’ll see more Narnia movies in the future.

Ed

I heard from a few other people who saw it last Saturday, none of them writing in with full reviews, and they all seem to be pretty happy with the way NARNIA’s turned out. I’m curious as hell right now, and I’ll take Ed’s enthusiasm as a very good sign. Because... it’s Ed! Ed, damn you! Ed!

"Moriarty" out.





Readers Talkback
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  • Nov. 16, 2005, 7:19 a.m. CST

    am i first again?

    by jig98

    wow.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 7:19 a.m. CST

    Sounds Great.

    by Ingeld

    I am looking forward to it.

  • like the promo that energizer batteries is doing.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 7:20 a.m. CST

    first!

    by Fontaine_Khaled

    damn you all!

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 7:35 a.m. CST

    knowthyself,

    by raw_bean

    'Father Christmas' is a common synonym for Santa Claus, here in the UK anyway. The point remains the same, I'm sure.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 7:46 a.m. CST

    Personally

    by KnightEternal

    prefere Father Christmas to Santa Claus

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 7:47 a.m. CST

    It Sounds Like They Nailed It

    by Aquaf@g

    LOTR also added scenes and I don't remember too much complaining about those, so I really don't see a problem here. Should be at least the number 3 movie of the year.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 7:56 a.m. CST

    Santa Claus?!

    by darquelyte

    I read the entire CoN about this time last year, and I don't recall Santa Claus making an appearance. I don't recall Father Christmas either, but I suppose I'll accept that he did, I just don't remember it since it wasn't important. Which makes me wonder why they put it in the movie. I certainly hope that there wasn't a better scene that got tossed in favor of this scene. Oh well, only 2 more days until GoF, so I'll put this out of my mind for a while. I'm still hopeful that it's a good as the trailers make it look.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:03 a.m. CST

    NARNIA = LOTR For Pre-Adolescents

    by ZombieSolutions

    hence the clean-look and bright colors. that being said, although it seems kind of 'soft', i also think it looks great. i'm definately looking forward to checking it out...

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:03 a.m. CST

    Adding scenes is fine in this case...

    by Sin86a

    The book itself is pretty short so I figured they'd be trying to fill it out in places. Didn't think they'd keep the Father Christmas bit but hopefully it works.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:07 a.m. CST

    Sounds like a blast!

    by Trazadone

    Does anyone know if there are plans to do other films from the series?

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:07 a.m. CST

    sounds good to me

    by amano

    Big Narnia fan, read all the books. The previews have been getting better, and the screenings have been positive so far. Looking foward to this one.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:14 a.m. CST

    Narniay - it's da bomb

    by morgenes25

    Ma shizzle na fizzle.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:18 a.m. CST

    Miracle Gro...isle 7

    by sith-vol

    CAUSE THIS DUDE IA A PLANT! ha ha ha ha .......sorry I'll be going now.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:20 a.m. CST

    P... p... p... p... p... p... p... p...

    by JackPumpkinhead

    ...lant.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:20 a.m. CST

    "IS" DANG IT!

    by sith-vol

    thats it. the hands are coming off, from now on I type with my face.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:23 a.m. CST

    Why all the Narnia/LOTR comparisons?

    by Mr_Sleep001

    It's not like it was ever a mystery that they were going to be similar, what with Tolkien and Lewis both being members of the Inklings writing group. They even ran ideas past one another. Incidentally Tolkien thought some of Lewis' allegories were too simplistic and obvious, but essentially he liked it. Is Narnia LOTR lite? possibly, but ostensibly it's an adapted children's novel, not a painfully researched novel as any of the LOTR books were.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:28 a.m. CST

    by seppukudkurosawa

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:29 a.m. CST

    Ed the Everyman may have mentioned all the talking animals...

    by seppukudkurosawa

    but he didn't mention the plants who can write.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:30 a.m. CST

    Father Christmas is INTEGRAL to the plot

    by chrth

    He is the first sign that the Witch's power is breaking, and it infuses the residents of Narnia with hope.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:32 a.m. CST

    What about Aslan?

    by Windfola

    Was he even not worth mentioning in the review... :(?

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:35 a.m. CST

    polanski ought to direct one of these

    by potsmokingalien

    too bad oliver twist wasn't a success. maybe it'll be when it's on dvd. but that movie was fucking cool, he can nail a like, almost fantasy level but still totally real sense of place and time. imagine like, polanski's "dawn treader". that would be like a completely kickass version of "brothers grimm," with more main characters, a boat, and the dragon skin shedding scene. Fucking Sweet.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:45 a.m. CST

    Andrew Adamson

    by jrbarker

    Isn't he the guy that directed Shrek? It was bold to give him this as his first live action. I find it funny that the commercials say at the end "directed by Andrew Adamson" like he's a marquee name or something.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:47 a.m. CST

    I think the reason Polanski's Oliver Twist...

    by Childe Roland

    ...seemed to nail a sense of real place and time is that the story is set in a real place and time.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:02 a.m. CST

    Looks like an extra long "Meow Mix" commerical.

    by cookylamoo

    Look at the talking Lion. It's he cool. Why is licking his chops like that? Yeeeeeeeeaaaaah!!!!

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:11 a.m. CST

    Santa... (minor spoilers)

    by Novaman5000

    Uh, More than the whole hope thing, he gives everyone a "gift" that they each end up using their specific to save the day in one way or another. He's kind of the deus ex machina of the whole story, so of course he'd be in it.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:15 a.m. CST

    Incidentally...

    by m2298

    The 1979 animated version left out Father Christmas. I seem to recall Aslan himself giving the gifts to the children.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:16 a.m. CST

    are they planning on adapting the entire Narnia series to film?

    by Goatweed

    I haven't read much about it, but I have read the series & I would hops that they plan on going the full stretch with this series.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:27 a.m. CST

    Looks pretty good. Talking animals are better than orcs anyday!

    by The Colonel

    Christian overtones be damned, I might see this! Looks refreshingly off the beaten-Hollywood path, as well. -------------- CHECK THIS: Pulling Punches on TV: http://www.intrepidmedia.com/column.asp?id=2396

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:29 a.m. CST

    "LOTR also added scenes and I don't remember too much compla

    by DorkmanScott

    Clearly you avoided sites like this like the plague from 2000-2003. The hardcores complained about the slightest change to everything. Personally I'm glad they added stuff, the Narnia books are extremely simple, quick reads, and not what you would call classically structured. And I don't think it's a plant. If it was, it would have talked a lot more about specific selling points -- like Aslan, for God's sake. Er, no pun intended.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:37 a.m. CST

    Father Christmas

    by Ingeld

    The presence of Father Christmas is, of course, part of the allegory. The world in winter represents our world before the birth of Christ. Father Christmas enters the story as the thaw begins telling us that Aslan has arrived in the world--in sense that Christmas has occured. In order to have the allegory of the death and ressurection of Christ at the end you need the initial allegory of Christmas--hence father christmas's presence in the tale. Deus ex machina. Of course, it is, then again the entire religion of Christianity is based on deus ex machina. Could the movie work without it? Yes, but the allegory does not work as well.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:44 a.m. CST

    Planty McPlantplant!! And who cares -- I'm there!!

    by Roguewriter

    I never imagined I would see Narnia (the book series that, for me in my youth, even eclipsed Tolkien) come alive on film, and I'm more excited than I thought possible -- probably because LOTR makes me believe they can really pull it off. I marvel at the idea of doing the rest of the books -- you know some suit at the studio is already going "Well, yeah, we know a couple of the books take place in an earlier timeframe and feature completely different characters, but can you work in the Pevensie kids? Oh, and the goat guy?" But right now I just can't wait to see that wardrobe door open. Man, it may well be a lousy time for modern film... but it's a marvelous era for fantasy film, if only because of LOTR and this. Bring it on!!

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:47 a.m. CST

    Polanski? Directing young girls?

    by Guy Gaduois

    Hopefully the girls are method actors and on a movie where they need to look terrified of being raped - I don't think there's any scenes even remotely like that in any of the Narnia books, but it's been a while. I love that we eventually admire criminals, given time - especially if they can contribute something so important to humanity as a nicely framed movie, 'cause those are vital. When's OJ going to come back to the Naked Gun movies? He's genius.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:12 a.m. CST

    SANTA!!!

    by Nairb The Movie

    Its not SANTA!!! Its father christmas!!! And he gives the children their weapons! Where would they get them with out him? Where would the animals in the woods EDMUND feels sorry for get all their food? SANTA NEEDS TO BE IN!

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:13 a.m. CST

    Yeah, knowthyself, I know about the ending of the series...

    by tucson

    ...and I'd be VERY impressed if the powers that be had the balls to film it that way.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:15 a.m. CST

    darquelyte

    by Nairb The Movie

    is who I was talking to. Read the book... pfft LIAR!

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:15 a.m. CST

    The Sycophant, the Head-case, and the Idiot.

    by Crash Crator

    *****Why does AICN post reviews from guys like Ed? Mr. Ed fires away with,

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:17 a.m. CST

    The ending of The Last Battle

    by Sith Witch

    Yeah, I know all about it. What's wrong with it? The only logistical problem I see is that they'll need to shoot scenes of it when they shoot Prince Caspian so that the children will still be the right age.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:20 a.m. CST

    There's only one thing

    by TheNeth

    that makes a talking animal picture better, and that's talking animals beating the living shit out of each other with swords and the like.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:25 a.m. CST

    TheNeth Strikes Back

    by Crash Crator

    Hilarious, Neth, hilarious!

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:35 a.m. CST

    They should bring the witch here to combat global warming.

    by cookylamoo

    or "Climate Change" as the Bush gang so politely refers to it.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:46 a.m. CST

    It's sad to see them turn Narnia into LOTR (and the bloated

    by acroyear77

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:47 a.m. CST

    i loved the way the series ended...

    by amano

    ...when i read it way back when. I might read it differently now, but I remember loving how it tied all the different stories together.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:47 a.m. CST

    Global cooling vs. global whining?

    by acroyear77

    Global cooling or warming, liberals will find something to bitch about.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:10 a.m. CST

    The Battle

    by Knugen

    What freaks me out about the batte is that it seems they've just slammed the armies against each other with no sense of strategy or tactics. There seems to be an inherent conflict in fighting an "evil" enemy that is potentially superior by hurling the "good" against it with no plan of action.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:35 a.m. CST

    Ed....

    by Shaner Jedi

    ....get your facts straight. WETA did the costuming and armouring of the creatures, but the creature work itself was done by KNB FX. Stop pimping WETA for shit they didn't do.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:38 a.m. CST

    I don't care about the action scenes

    by ufoclub

    The best thing about Narnia was that all powerful mythic tragic spell it casts... You know, the same one that works on some people in religions like Christianity... Obi-wan's Death... ET.... will it be written and structured to reach that emoitonal peak?

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:38 a.m. CST

    In the prophetic words of Stan from Southpark: Don't care,

    by R.C. the "Wise"

    Narnia, the reason I have Netflix.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:52 a.m. CST

    I just finished re-reading "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe

    by Magunga

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:52 a.m. CST

    The ending of THE LAST BATTLE (spoilers)

    by Roguewriter

    ...is the most resonating, thrilling storytelling of the whole series... and for this relatively pagan/agnostic geek, as close as I'll come to accepting judeo-christian beliefs anymore. I was terrified as a kid by the "deaths" the heroes endured (though it won't need to be overly graphic if filmed, since it basically amounts to seeing them shoved one by one into a cave-like shed, nothing more -- their deaths are only explained later) but the subsequent revelations, and the reunions with their friends, particularly Reepicheep, left me weeping happy tears. Still does. Most remarkable of all? C.S. Lewis embraced a brand of Christianity that is all but forgotten in modern America (at least, that's what the hardline Christian right would have us believe); one of the most important moments is the revelation that the kind-hearted Calormen warrior who sought to defend the children has also somehow been delivered into heaven. "How can this be?" he wonders, seeing Aslan for the first time. "When I spent my whole life in service to Tash?" (another deity). Aslan warmly tells him that all things are part of the great plan, and by faithfully serving Tash, fulfilling his role in the great unfolding of the universe with vigor and commitment, he was actually serving Aslan all along. A BRILLIANT CONCEPT -- it suggests that God, the TRUE God, is a being so far removed from our concept of Him that indeed the basic, fundamental differences between us -- Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, etc -- don't even apply! If you're a Hindu, be the best Hindu you can be, and you will find paradise, this theory suggests. I'm reminded of Gandhi commanding that the Muslim take in the orphaned Hindu baby and raise him according to Hindu traditions, in keeping with his family's faith. What a profoundly fresh and exhilarating concept -- it doesn't matter WHAT you believe, but THAT you believe. Think about it, folks. And reread that last book. I would hesitate to give it to a sensitive, impressionable kid under the age of 10 or so, but pretty much everyone else ought to rejoice in the wondrous culmination of the series. A magnificent achievement.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:53 a.m. CST

    Magunga

    by zacdilone

    Good for you!

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:55 a.m. CST

    This will do well, but Prince Caspian needs major work to become

    by Mahaloth

    1/3 of its story is re-capping Caspian's escape and meeting-up with the old Narnians. They'll have to really revise it to make it work.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:57 a.m. CST

    ...and it's amazing how quickly Lewis skims over such a mass

    by Magunga

    The book is barely over a hundred pages, large type, yet it describes a massive power struggle between good and evil, the death and resurrection of a major character, and an epic battle. There's a lot of embellishment to be done here, to flesh it out to feature length. I'm very interesterd to see how they accomplish this.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:58 a.m. CST

    Zacdilone...

    by Magunga

    ...I accidentally pressed ENTER when I meant to press TAB. Oops.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:59 a.m. CST

    acroyear77, is this movie really 3 hours long?

    by Cherub Rock

    Where'd you hear that? Given the (short) length of the book and the fact that they want the kiddies coming back for thirds and fourths, why would they allow it to swell to 3 hours? I mean, I guess that's alright if it's *good*, but it seems unnecessary.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:02 p.m. CST

    Roguewriter

    by zacdilone

    Your take on the scene with the servant of Tash is compelling, but I don't think it's what Lewis meant. The message isn't "It doesn't matter what you believe, only that you believe." The message is more that any honest quest for truth is in reality a quest for Aslan. Aslan honors the servant's quest and presents himself as the fulfillment of that quest. Lewis wasn't putting forth a universalist spin, but instead was making a case that God honors our heart's quest for truth when it is pursued to the best of our ability. By making Aslan the object of the search, Lewis was indicating that all such quests ultimately end with Christ. In doing so, Lewis was upholding the possibility that those who haven't heard of Christ can still enter paradise (certainly a scriptural idea, see Romans and Hebrews), but I don't think he was advancing a "pick your own faith" approach to truth-seeking.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:16 p.m. CST

    Zacdilone, I'll acknowledge that line of reasoning...

    by Roguewriter

    Makes a lot of sense. I still like the universalist concept, at least in terms of a loving and forgiving creator that transcends the Christ story alone. I can no longer fathom the concept of a loving god who would place ANY limits on who could be accepted into paradise, especially after putting in a tour of duty down here on this smelly rock. But I acknowledge your line of logic. Let's agree to disagree. =)

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:17 p.m. CST

    um, did you guys forget about the part about Susan?

    by oisin5199

    that she was denied heaven because she liked make-up and boys? I wonder if they're keeping true to Lewis' attitudes towards women in the movie, like when the girls aren't allowed to fight in the first book's battle. Loved the books and hope for the movie, but Last Battle would need some serious revision for this day and age.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:27 p.m. CST

    zacdilone

    by Prof.Ikamono

    The calormen prince HAD heard of Aslan but remained "faithful" to Tash. The point was that the courage, honesty, nobility, decency, and heroic deeds of the prince done in Tash's name were truly done in Aslan's. Tash himself is presented in such a way that a Christian allegory interpretation view of the books would leave no other correspondant than Satan. Thus Lewis would be presenting a dedicated Satanist as worthy of the Kingdom of Heaven. Lewis also warns Christians by having Aslan point out that cowardly, selfish, ignoble, hurtful, vile deeds done is His name are actually performed in Tash's. The Jesus brand-name mentality of the average American Fundamentalist Evangelical would sent their sorry asses straight to hell in Lewis' theology. As for Father Christmas Lewis presents him in the book not so much as Santa than as a near pagan Spirit of Yule. Bacchus and Silenus appear in Prince Caspian and are given to run full riot with Aslan's blessing. Lewis had room for a lot within his view of Christianity. One of Lewis' harshest critics today is Phillip Pullman, author of the His Dark Materials books. He often becomes angry about the "fate" of Susan in the Last Battle (might as well spoil this bit too). Pullman complains that Lewis condemns Susan to eternal damnation because she is a normal teenage girl who becomes interested in boys and such. This is a forced reading, yes Susan loses her childlike faith in Narnia, but the reason she doesn't join all the others in Heaven at the end of The Last Battle is that she has not died. The train crash killed all the others. Lewis does not say what happens to Susan after she grows up, but losing her entire family could lead her to God in whatever form she finds Him in even if it is no longer Aslan.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:50 p.m. CST

    Why I'm Looking Forward to This ...

    by Itchy

    Because I have a 5 year old. And he likes movies. And I have to take him to movies. And I'd rather see something like this than "Daddy Day Care" any day of the week. I loved Narnia growing up, and I'm optimistic that this is going to be an engaging and fair adaptation of the books, so I'm going in with a positive attitude, and hope this will all work out. If they somehow found a way to work Emma Watson into the cast, I'd be ready to start handing out Oscars ! Mmmm. Emma Watson.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:53 p.m. CST

    What a great review."I've seen this big fuck off movie and I

    by The True Priapic

    Fuck this.Why do I sense Harry is okaying positive feedback on this because WETA are involved?Fucking bollocks 'review'.Wasting my fucking valuable time.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:58 p.m. CST

    I always thought Susan's failing...

    by Roguewriter

    ... was in that she turned away from faith and belief of ANY kind, choosing instead the shallow, simple things of the world. This corresponds well, I think, with the idea of Aslan as forgiving alternative faiths but not forgiving faithlessness. And I don't think it's intended as a sexist concept -- I think Lewis thought about which of his four children would make the best example of what happens when you lose faith -- and lord knows, Peter, Edmund and Lucy were all too important to the entire storyline of the Narnia chronicles to be lost. Susan was the best choice for his allegorical lesson. I was always haunted by her loss... but it was a powerful message, even as a kid. The things of the world are wasteful things, meaningless in comparison to one's eternal being.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:01 p.m. CST

    And BTW...

    by Roguewriter

    I sure do appreciate the TalkBacks that spur serious, thoughtful discussion of films and topics that spring from films... instead of devolving into, y'know, geek recess. =)

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:01 p.m. CST

    Can't wait.

    by Azlam Orlandu

    "...Wardrobe" is one of my favorite if not my favorite book of all time. To me th feel of Narnia lands perfectly between Oz and Lord of the Rings. This is the movie I've waited all year for. And to the above poster. This whole site is a waste of time, get the fuck over yourself please. -Az

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:15 p.m. CST

    Susan in battle

    by m2298

    I read that director Adamson has Susan use her bow and arrow and changed the line of "battles are ugly when women fight." to "battles are ugly affairs." The line "I do not mean you to fight in the battle" was also cut.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:30 p.m. CST

    Roguewriter......

    by Shaner Jedi

    ...I like your interpretation more but that might be because I'm a deist at heart and look forward to a story that is above religious dogma.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:34 p.m. CST

    See Gee Eye

    by NNNOOO!!!

    I don't care how good the CGI is, if you have to mention it three times in the first paragraph something's wrong. It means the story isn't engaging you and you're paying more attention to technical details.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Narnia has fanboys?

    by barryap

    And isn't this a Jesus film? Don't Jesus-y types object to Santa or something?

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:56 p.m. CST

    The Christian side of it will be downplayed

    by performingmonkey

    I very much doubt that they will shoot The Last Battle and Magician's Nephew anyway, and they're the ones where the sort of Christian element of the story is most present (they are about the birth and death of the world. it basically ends with the characters in Heaven). However, there are no literal Christian references in the books, although some people seem to assume that there are. If they DO film the two final books, they should do it as a single movie. By the way, this review is a plant attempting to ease some worries about the film.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 2:37 p.m. CST

    Jesus is a plant

    by blackwood

    God is a studio exec hoping his Faith stays number one in the Box Office of the Soul. Can't trust salvation these days - everybody's selling, everybody's buying.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 2:57 p.m. CST

    Hey, an intelligent talkback!

    by Prankster

    But I'm going to have to agree with Oisin (and Philip Pullman) in that the ending of the Last Battle seems awfully mean-spirited. Yes, it is overtly stated that Susan has denied Narnia because...well, she's apparently got amnesia or something and has forgotten about it. And yeah, Lewis' take on women is a little bit uncomfortable...I don't think he was a mysogynist, but he was a product of his time. However, as has also been pointed out, he was a greater mind and had a stronger faith than the crazy evangelicals who are going to be flocking to this movie because they think it confirms all their beliefs. And for the record, Lewis did seem to be something of a Universalist, as in everyone has access to Heaven if they can find the right mode of behaviour and faith. Read "The Great Divorce" and you'll see one of the most logical portrayals of heaven and hell you're likely to read.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Read Lewis's "Screwtape Letters"

    by ScienceMan

    or better yet listen to the audio version as read by John Cleese. Not for children. It's essentially a demon giving weekly updates to his boss in hell about the demon's progress in corrupting an average Joe person. It's the most spot-on commentary on the human condition (and I'm not a Christian). And the view Lewis paints is not pretty. It's surly and ironic and damn funny. Never read Narnia, but I like shiny things and animals so I'll probably check it out.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 3 p.m. CST

    No literal Christian references?

    by Childe Roland

    You sure about that, performingmonkey? It's been a long time since I read the books, so I could well be misremembering, but I seem to recall Aslan being asked at one point by one of the visiting rugrats (I don't believe it was one of the original four, so it must've been in a later book) whether he (Aslan) exists back in the real world. Aslan says something about existing there with a different name and that the reason human children are brought to Narnia to get to know him tere is so they can better recognize him in their own world. Or something to that effect. Any die-hard Lewis fans want to confirm this exchange or just reassure me that I'm losing it?

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 3:06 p.m. CST

    Addressing the added content

    by zer0cool2k2

    The director Andrew Adamson said that upon rereading the books, he realized all the best parts he remembered from his childhood weren't in the book, but were things his 8 year old imagination had added into the story. The books are quite short and leave a lot of room for adding your own details. Thus characters were fleshed out and scenes lengthened or added................... BTW, I've developed a strange androgynous crush on Tilda Swinton

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 3:39 p.m. CST

    Santa Claus is a democrat

    by Capt. Murphy

    That's right.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 3:46 p.m. CST

    PLANT

    by Rupee88

    Can't these guys figure out how to write so it isn't so f'ing obvious?!?

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 3:55 p.m. CST

    total plantage

    by matrix69

    I am not fooled.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:07 p.m. CST

    And Scooge was a Republican.

    by cookylamoo

    No rebuilt city for YOU this year...Tiny Tim.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:13 p.m. CST

    Trailer looked good.....

    by Mel Garga

    but I was vaporized by all the feline laxative I swallowed. And then I ate tortilla chips.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:28 p.m. CST

    Every time someone speeds up to pull in front of me and then mys

    by Prof.Ikamono

    Devils ride the motorways inciting rage. They do. Oh and for those wondering about Lewis and women, go read a biography on him. Very odd relationship between him and his best mate's mum.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:28 p.m. CST

    Screwtape is great

    by cookylamoo

    One of the best pieces about the working of the human mind ever written.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Looks like Harry Popper has some competition.

    by Capt. Blackadder

    .........or not.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:53 p.m. CST

    One more thing....

    by Capt. Blackadder

    Mr. Ed is a plant. A perfect potted, green, leafy plant. Damn!

  • She's money.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 5:09 p.m. CST

    That was textbook plant food.

    by AristidesTheJust

    Seriously now. That "review" was a textbook example! It hit all the right "talking points" and everything. That being said, Hollywood, we didn't *need* a shitty ass plant review to go see the movie. Most of us were already sold. Cunts.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 5:23 p.m. CST

    Don't Fuck with Santa Claus

    by holidill

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 5:24 p.m. CST

    Oops, Don't Fuck with Father Christmas

    by holidill

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 5:26 p.m. CST

    All Seven

    by holidill

    I've heard they are going to try to do all of them, depending on how well it does in the theaters. I read Lion Witch and Wardrobe, Voyage of the Dawn Treader, and Prince Caspian, which I recall was my favorite at the time.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 5:29 p.m. CST

    m2298...

    by Wungolioth

    Father Christmas is heard but not seen in the animated version, just before the White Witch stumbles upon the animals with the presents and turns them to stone. You are right though, Aslan is the one to give the children their weapons in that version. As far as the discussions of movie length, the animated version came in at about 90 mins, with some scenes that seemed to drag on with the children walking in the woods, for example, as if the book didn't provide enough material. Conversely, the BBC live action version was 3 hours long, and the pacing didn't seem all that padded out, so really it's anyone's guess how long this movie could end up.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 5:53 p.m. CST

    It's Going To Disappoint

    by cabsau

    First off I love Fantasy, LOVE IT and want more more more. I want more than anything for this to downplay christian themes and be a success. Now, let me throw my vote in that I suspect a relative failure. There might be too many big movies this holiday season. People off school/work a week or two here and there with most of that time used up on the holiday stuff. One or two movies will be all most people try to squeeze in. This film is sandwiched between Potter and Kong too close to Kong which is better positioned relative to Xmas vacation. It's chance for big box office comes mostly on it's opening weekend. (Disney really should've pushed for Dec2 since Aeon Flux will flop.) I think people will also be drawn to the "quality" films coming out this season diluting Narnia's chances even more. A lot of us are starved for a great small film after the crap of the summer and fall, leaving time for only a more exciting big release. I perceive no sense of mass excitement, wonder, urgency or great desire for or about this film. A great meter being that there is little or no non-marketing budget media on this thing. (Look at the media buzz that's surrounded LotR, Kong, Star Wars, Harry Potter) There are fewer fans of the books left around, the story telling in them dated so they're not grabbing a large new audience. I know there's some marketing to the Christians going on but they're not chomping at the bit nearly like they were with PotC; the whole fantasy world with mythological creatures will probably get in the way of the Christ message for most of the simpletons there. They need to be spoon fed a literal Jesus not a metaphorical one. I love this kind of film event but for whatever reason I have very little desire to see this thing right now. I hate that the perceived failure of a film like this (I predict at most 150-170 mil domestic box office with a potential for a lot less) will adversely affect the future of a genre I love and want more of. The marketing of the film is misleading, there's no buzz, the soundtrack seems to blow, few of the potential main stream audience needed will be interested in children in fantasy land (Lemony Snicket) and the family film viewers might shy from what's being marketed like another fantasy battle film. Few know the actors (except us and then mostly Tilda and Liam) or the filmmakers...save "DISNEY" which today holds too little clout. This film has a lot, probably too much, going against it. Now, marketing still has time to step it up a bit and generate some mainstream hype, but today I'm not seeing it. A film like this, at this time of year, needs to be well planted in the brains of a potential audience. It's not.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 7:18 p.m. CST

    This from a guy who thought CG yoda was amazing...

    by quadrupletree

    Hey Ed!

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:06 p.m. CST

    Christianity in Narnia

    by SCYTHEOFLUNA

    Lewis did not write Narnia as parable, it is NOT to be taken as a christian myth. Jesus makes no appearance in the books or film. Narnia was written as universal mythology, and though some aspects of this mythology are similar to aspects of christianity they are equally prevalent in other religions. Yes C.S. Lewis was christian, but if you think stories of the creation and destruction of the world are reserved for christianity you're way off. Narnia echoes the same themes of "fall and redemption" that are found in Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, The Matrix, Dune, and nearly any other science fiction or fantasy book or film. The common thread of ultimate good vs ultimate evil is not the sole property of christian faith and I'm sick of people trying to hijack this film for their own personal benefit. The pope wants to ban Harry Potter, but these idiots have no problem embracing magic or sorcery as long as they can find a way to christ-ify it. Enjoy it for what it is: FANTASY. It's not meant to be taken for anything else, and anyone seeking to find Jesus in Narnia is missing the point.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:33 p.m. CST

    Good Luck Ringbearer

    by cabsau

    I hope you're right, but unless the volume get's significantly turned up, I don't believe you'll be vendicated. I suspect you're correct about LOTR fan appeal and book-fan appeal drawing people to this, hence my guess of possibly 150 mil instead of 110 mil. All indications suggest though that while the books sales have gained some momentum but not nearly what LOTR did and not nearly what was hoped. I also suspect a bit of eclipse from LOTR by general audiences who imagine a cheap imitation. What a brilliant campaign there was for FotR with the broadcasts of character trailers and varied film clips baiting the general public with glorious images from the film. Not so here. Talking animals and mythical creatures I suspect in themselves hold little appeal to the mass public needed for the kind of success you look for. Good luck. If you're right, I'll take the Rice-a-Roni and you get the chance at what's behind door number 1,2 or 3.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:40 p.m. CST

    Ringbearer's obsession with sweet, shiny and light fantasy m

    by FluffyUnbound

    Is that it? Have I hit the nail on the head here?

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:58 p.m. CST

    Christianity Tash and Talking Apes

    by pdiddy

    Fluna..you're the first I've seen to say that it's not about Christianity. I think it's demonstrably so. Could be wrong but... Also seen some conjecture in the past about the Last Battle taking a swipe at Catholicism. Tash isn't necessarily the devil, merely another interpretation of God and that the ape represents the Pope. Along the lines that "you can't get to God except through me." Honestly don't have an opinion on that one but found it interesting. As for the flick I hope it does well but I'm not sure if I'll like to see it on film. Someone mentioned before about the best parts being the ones they made up as kids...

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 12:46 a.m. CST

    No marketing? LOL!!

    by CerebralAssassin

    No marketing for this film? Two trailers, tv spots all the time, one-sheet out since summer, theatre displays, banners, billboards as far as the eye can see, two CDs, a mall tour. Meanwhile for Kong: they just released a one-sheet, they just released a final trailer. No tv. No CDs. No billboards. No theatre standees. No nothing. LOL! Now, who's not marketing their film?

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 1:45 a.m. CST

    Child Roland you are right...ScytheofLuna you are wrong

    by AntoniusBloc

    Roland: " I seem to recall Aslan being asked at one point by one of the visiting rugrats (I don't believe it was one of the original four, so it must've been in a later book) whether he (Aslan) exists back in the real world. Aslan says something about existing there with a different name and that the reason human children are brought to Narnia to get to know him tere is so they can better recognize him in their own world. Or something to that effect. Any die-hard Lewis fans want to confirm this exchange or just reassure me that I'm losing it?" Well, it did appear in a later book, but it confirms that Aslan is not really a metaphor of God and Jesus, but Aslan IS Jesus. Lewis points out that if a magical world such as Narnia existed, Aslan is one way God would enter that world, as he entered ours as Jesus. SCYTHEOFLUNA wrote: "Lewis did not write Narnia as parable, it is NOT to be taken as a christian myth. Jesus makes no appearance in the books or film. Narnia was written as universal mythology, and though some aspects of this mythology are similar to aspects of christianity they are equally prevalent in other religions." Yes C.S. Lewis was christian, but if you think stories of the creation and destruction of the world are reserved for christianity you're way off." Not quite. Narnia is representitive of the Christian philosophy of Lewis, and that layer of meaning exists as the foundation of the story. Part of the conversion of Lewis to Christianity was influenced by his friend Tolkien when Tolkien explained to Lewis that the Christian story is mythology, but the one TRUE mythology, that other imagined mythologies reflect by their objective desire for this Truth, yet being ignorant of it. Mythology always reflected true desire but not a true story. The Christian story is the true story that fulfills the true desire for God and Paradise lost that produced imagined myths. This objective desire for Truth is reflected in the other faiths you speak of, but the source is the one true God, as in Narnia, it is Aslan.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 1:52 a.m. CST

    Hello Ringbearer

    by dewijnboer

    I was waiting for you to come fuck up this talkback with your hatred for all things PJ. I have been missing you! Glad to see you still love everything shiny and bright and illuminated, like little babies do. No go sit in the corner, take your little thumb, put it in your mouth and be nice and quiet.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 1:57 a.m. CST

    Why the concerns of the similarity to Lord of the Rings?

    by AntoniusBloc

    I've heard much about its 'identity', and being too much like LOTR. First of all, is that such a bad thing? LOTR has set the bar, not just in its genre. Also, LOTR is not a children's story, like Narnia and Potter, therefore LOTR could appeal to more 'fanboys'. Unlike Potter, Narnia is written by one of the great philosophers in history. The children's story of Narnia, therefore will contain layers of meaning behind the children's story and appeal to what Lewis understood as true, objective desire(as mythology does). The element of the Christian philosophy adds depth and meaning to the story, as it did for Lord of the Rings. Although Lewis admits to being influenced by his good friend Tolkien, Lewis tells his own story, and the story will create its own identity. As reflected by the previous ignorant Christian bashers, there is a misconception of the Chronicles of Narnia being a direct metaphor. Lewis himself points out that Aslan is not a representation of God, but God himself, and how he would enter a magical land such as Narnia if it were a real place. Therefore, Narnia will share many of the themes with Lord of the Rings, and the Passion, along with there depth in meaning. Both are closer to mythology, as opposed to Potter, which is a one layered story for the kiddies, and a fad for adults and fanboys(Potter rides a broomstick, doesn't he?) Anyway, to bury this film is premature. I don't see LOTR numbers, but being a good story with real depth could still make it a huge success , if done right. I am also seeing more tv spots, but not hearing much news about upcoming trailers.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 3:12 a.m. CST

    the review is too good

    by Darth Twoface

    mhm . . . . plant

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 4:48 a.m. CST

    Anyone notice...

    by jodocus

    Anyone notice how the christian right denounces the Harry Potter series but doesn't say a peep about Narnia or Lord of the Rings? What's the difference other than the latter two were written by christians?

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 6:50 a.m. CST

    re: jodocus

    by Ingeld

    LoTR and Narnia are firmly grounded in a Christian worldview; it is woven into the fabric of those fantasies--not simply in the lives of its authors. Rowland takes what Christianity has traditionally .percieved as evil and sinful--being a witch/warlock and turned it into being desirable/heroic--all of this without any overt Christian subtext. By the way I say all of this as a tremedous HP fan and not as a member of the Religious Right. I am simply answering your question.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 8:15 a.m. CST

    Ah, the Christians...

    by dewijnboer

    They have a millenia-long history of shortsightedness, especially where other people's views come into play. We all have to listen to their ideas, but they will not listen to ours. Long ago I decided to become agnostic, and I am still very happy about that decision. Believe what you will, folks, but don't try to convert others. More on-topic: I am looking forward to Narnia, Christian overtones or no. Just as I am looking forward to Harry Potter and King Kong, and have intensely enjoyed Lord of the Rings.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 9:14 a.m. CST

    GingerTwit, thanks for mentioning "Somehow Satan Got Behind Me"

    by Roguewriter

    I was a diehard MILLENNIUM purist of the first caliber (hell, I met my wife on the official MM Web site!) and though I didn't care for that episode in its original airing (I thought it was way, WAY too early for the series to poke that kind of sly, witty fun at itself) it now stands as one of my favorite standalones, and the line "You must be so lonely" has haunted me for years. A phenomenal piece of writing -- one of the highest of many high points on a show that (for two seasons, at least) stood as a true pinnacle of genre storytelling...

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 9:17 a.m. CST

    Wungolioth

    by m2298

    Thanks for the correction re Father Christmas in the '79 version (it's been a long time since I've viewed it). Has anyone here ever seen the first, 1967 British television version?

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 9:50 a.m. CST

    Ringbearer, that was so funny I officially have to stop giving y

    by FluffyUnbound

    The giant baby head as the Balrog - too funny. Someone needs to photoshop that. Oh, and Antonius, I used to think Potter was a crappy fad, too, before I read the books. At this point I think the books will survive precisely because they aren't "one layered". Rowling quite cleverly laid a fantasy world over the traditional coming-of-age, "school days" type story. She then decided to make the books themselves mysteries or detective stories. She has therefore been able to make the most out of the conventions of three major genres that have been around for almost as long as literature has been around, and likely will continue to be around for a long, long time. The Potter books aren't mythopoeic but myth-making isn't the only way to achieve longevity or relevance.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 10:53 a.m. CST

    Ahh Antonius, nice try, but when you live with someone who studi

    by SCYTHEOFLUNA

    Universal mythology: This is exactly what I was trying to convey. Certainly Lewis' Christian belief may have laid a foundation for Narnia. So what? The book does not take place on Earth, and no happenings in or around Narnia occur because of Jesus or any Terran conception of "God". It's a fantasy novel written as an effort to create an alternative take on the universal mythology i.e. ultimate good vs. evil, epic battle for supremacy, ultimate sacrifice, fall and redemption blah blah blah. The same kind of thematic material can be found in every fantasy novel,comic book or RPG and I don't think that the author or creator's religion is relevant in any of those cases either. Everyone has a meter that they measure the world by, be it a moral code, a religious code, or lack thereof, and it will always come through in their work to some extent, but C.S. Lewis most certainly did not write the Chronicles of Narnia with the intention of lacing it with Chrisitian mysticism. Even if he had, the themes present are common in nearly every religious myth since the dawn of recorded civilization, including mythologies much older than Christianity. Obscure references and thematic similarities do not a Christian literary work make. As far as bringing Lewis' friendship with Tolkien into the debate, the good Mr. Tolkien didn't think much of Narnia if you'll do your research. This is where the misunderstanding lies. Tolkien's primary critique of Narnia was that Lewis had failed in creating a myth that didn't resemble the Christian myth at all, as was Lewis' intent. I think the author's intent is really what matters. Consider some of Lewis' other writings which make no attempt to disguise their Christian influence or Till We Have Faces: A Myth Retold, which is a recreation of the story of Cupid and Psyche. The man didn't limit himself solely to Christian myth. So in the end Narnia's connection to Christianity is limited to thematic similarities folks, common thematic threads. That's all we're talking about. End of story. They teach courses on this kind of thing at your local university. LOTR and Narnia were written as alternative takes on mythology. If you want to read about Christianity there are thousands of tomes on the subject, and they have whole bookstores in which you can find them clearly labeled. You can also wait for someone to drop a pamphlet in your mailbox. People see what they want to see in film and literature and subtle messages can sometimes be totally misunderstood, and twisted to fit the viewers perspective. I see that as being unfair to the creator and a misuse of his work. Let the man's writing speak for itself. If you don't see Jesus printed anywhere in the book, there's no Jesus in the book. Very simple.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 11:04 a.m. CST

    Nobody is bashing Christians Antonius, but it does often seem th

    by SCYTHEOFLUNA

    As I said, do some research. Talk to a literary proffessor and get the real story. Lord of the Rings and Narnia were written by Christians. I have no problem with that. It does not negate the FACT that they were written as alternative takes on universal myth i.e. the author's intent was to DISTANCE himself from Christian myth in the context of that particular literary work. Am I repeating myself? Is it sinking in yet? Stop feeling sorry for yourself, and quit trying to claim everything. The rest of us don't generally bring up our religion when we're discussing movies, so by doing so you make yourself an easy target. I'm glad you liked Gibson's gory propaganda piece, but it certainly doesn't seem relevant here, though it is clearly a work of FANTASY. Again, consult literary experts and obtain some facts before you continue to assault us with baseless fodder.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 11:05 a.m. CST

    Queen Susan the Gentle NOT Warrior

    by ROBE

    Several points (1) LWW is set in 1940 when women in Britain did not take part in combat roles. (2) CS Lewis was writing these books in the 1950s when women In Britain did not take part in combat roles. (3) Narnia is set in a medieval style world and in medieval times women rarely took part in combat. (4) As of this date 2005 women are not allowed to take part in British Army combat roles (the ban on Royal Navy and Royal Air Force was only lifted in the early 1990s) (5) CS Lewis was a WWI veteran so I think his opinion is better than somebody who watches a lot of Xena Warrior Princess. (6) The Center for Military Readiness is against women in combat at its president is a woman Elaine Donnelly, is she sexist? Why do some people think women are suitable for combat if they can't compete with men in sporting events?

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 11:09 a.m. CST

    ARROWS

    by ROBE

    I believe Susan fires at least one non lethal arrow at a bad guy who is about to kill her injured brother. While this never happened in the book it is in line with what happens in Prince Caspian, so the Lewis Estate gave their okay.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 11:29 a.m. CST

    Well, I don't live with anyone who studies this shit...

    by Childe Roland

    ...but I studied it myself for quite a while (admittedly, though, quite a while ago, which was why I needed confimration on the existence of that Aslan-by-any-other-name-is-Jesus line). Anyway, SCYTHEOFLUNA, as someone who spends an awful lot of time on the meaning of texts to this day, I can honestly say that the author's intent is really only part of the equation when it comes to interpretation. The audience brings something to the table as well, and the collective lexicon of images and meanings from which we all draw - including language, mythology and values - lends additional weight to many words that needn't be spelled out in the vocabulary or the syntax of the text. It's how symbols and allegories work. When you, yourself, acknowledge that Lewis' writing was doubtless informed by his recent conversion to and understanding of Christianity, you helped introduce Jesus (aka Aslan) into the text. Even Tolkein saw the parallels as to glaring and cited them as faults of the works from a story perspective. Not everything needs to be clearly labeled in fiction. In fact, it usually works better when things aren't (at least in terms of creating a cathartic experience with the audience...it allows their minds to fill in the blanks and make their experience of the sotry more their own). There is no one correct interpretation of any text (ask the many sects of Christianity or Islam or even the Justices of the Supreme Court). That's why we have all that gray matter keeping our ears apart...so we can put the pieces together and arrive at our understanding of "the truth."

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Marketing

    by cabsau

    It's not that there's no marketing, it's that the marketing is not good enough. They have not created a drive to see this thing outside of book and general genre lovers. There's no buzz in the mainstream audience. One sheets, that shitty trailer, those WEAK tv spots, and theater standees are not going to do it. People recognize that this film is coming but too many have too little desire to see it. These films do not have the guaranteed audience size they need inherently built in. Disney has grossly miscalculated if that's what they're betting on. A film of this budget with a genre riding on it's shoulders should not have it's financiers ringing their hands hoping their plan will work out. Mark my words. Unless something dramatically changes, good but not nearly a record opening weekend and that's it. Pretty routine numbers after. Disney will of course make their money back and a profit after worldwide release and DVD sales, but there may well not be another Narnia from them in the near future. By the look of the routine marketing of this thing, I doubt if they care. I'm sure they don't like playing such a big gamble right now anyway.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Harry Potter/Christianity

    by DorkmanScott

    As a note, the Pope retracted his statements about the Harry Potter books being evil before he snuffed it. The really funny thing, to me, is that the practitioners of witchcraft had just as strong a reaction to them initially. "That's not what it's like!" Anyway, this is a Narnia talkback. The Chronicles of Narnia are most CERTAINLY meant to be Christian allegory, but as pointed out, in many instances they could easily be applied to universal concepts of good and evil, right and wrong, that most every religion and mythology embraces. But don't fool yourself into thinking non-specificity was Lewis' intention; the books were more about introducing children to the very difficult concepts of sin and salvation than anything else, including telling the story.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 2:28 p.m. CST

    Hey!

    by Shigeru

    That kid pissed in my coffee!

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 2:41 p.m. CST

    This reviewer is obviously a plant

    by NapoleonDynamite

    Does this place make any effort at all to weed out the planted reviews from the real ones? If "Ed" thinks that a children's movie battle involving talking animals and fucking UNICORNS is "badass," I simply can't take him seriously. Also, how can talking beavers not look fucking stupid? Narnia looks like ass. Just like with the books, Narnia can never be a hair on the ass of LOTR. Aslan takes it up the ass.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 3:08 p.m. CST

    Childe Roland, a particularly apt quote comes to mind...

    by Roguewriter

    "I know what I have given you; I do not know what you have received." -- E.M. Forster. You can read anything you like into any tale you like. Wasn't it Hemingway who expressed amazement at the mounds of dissertations written about THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA, finally shouting, "It was a story about a guy and a fish, for crissakes!" I love the Narnia stories. I love the heroism, the selflessness, the call to stand true and love your friends and help those in need. Modern religion is so choked and bogged down in dogma and antagonism and human shortcomings that pretty much every faith has a large contingent of folks who seem to have forgotten one simple rule: If anyone is not living a life based on peace, love, and tolerance, they have no business professing to follow any religious teachings -- they are liars, or fools.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 3:20 p.m. CST

    "How can talking beavers not look fucking stupid?"

    by FluffyUnbound

    Talking rabbits were made to not look stupid in WATERSHIP DOWN. Take out the damn songs, and it reasonably straddles the line between children's fare and "badassness". I don't know if it looks like Narnia went that route, though.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Propaganda

    by xphyle

    Do we really need to see Christian Propaganda masquerading as a family film? I would think this is sort of the anti Harry Potter Film for all of those Rightwing fascists that believe Potter is evil...Just curious.....

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Okay, Ringbearer9, I just jetted nose-Pepsi everywhere...

    by Roguewriter

    "Where'd they find these animals?!" just struck me insanely funny, I guess... mainly because about 20 minutes ago I was abruptly reminded that today is THURSDAY, not FRIDAY. The weekend is not yet here. Agggh... but you're right, BABE: PIG IN THE CITY is an example of a movie in which lifelike CG is taken perhaps a bit TOO far. My son, who is three, loves the first BABE, but the second one freaks him out because of the "scary talking monkeys!" I'm with him, and you... Narnia's success won't hinge on the quality of the animation (well, except maybe in the case of Aslan, and that looks darned cool) but rather on the successful interpretation of the story's rich, gentle, heroic heart and soul. I'm stoked!

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 5:09 p.m. CST

    Babe: Pig in the City - unappreciated masterpiece. The ghost of

    by FluffyUnbound

    It is an immortal classic if only because it contains the most over-the-top sentimental scene of all time: the scene where Babe meets all the stray animals, and the talking kitten says, "I'm hungry...my belly hurts." There isn't that much naked and shameless emotional manipulation in Spielberg's entire oeuvre put together. It's so naked and shameless that it rises to the level of greatness.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 5:39 p.m. CST

    On a side note

    by Capt. Blackadder

    I agree, Scrooge was a Republican. Good call cookylamoo. .

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 6:54 p.m. CST

    I'm getting a little annoyed

    by Daredevil

    I constantly see people in these talkbacks putting down Christians and using fundamentalist as if it's a swear word. It's not just in the talkbacks, Harry and the staff tend to do it in their articles as well. It's almost like they don't want us visiting their site. Jodocus you say the Christian right denounces Harry Potter, as if we all got together one day to try and ban all things Harry Potter. Last thing I knew, the pope didn't speak for me. Never met the guy. I'm one of the Christian fundamentalists you seem to think hate anything with magic in it, but I have to tell you, I have no problem with Harry Potter. I also play Dungeons and Dragons when I can (getting a gaming group together was so much easier in high school and college when everyone had similar schedules....) Oh, sure there are individuals who don't like it, but the vast majority don't have a problem with it. I'm sure there are plenty of non-Christians that hate Harry Potter for whatever reason, someone on here even said people who believe in witchcraft have decried the books and movies too. Most of the people in my "Christian fundamentalist" church (including my pastor and his family) are perfectly fine with Harry Potter stuff. Sure, there are ones who disagree, and there have been discussions over the years about various things that are disagreed on by the people in my church, whether it's Harry Potter, drinking, or dancing, or whatever. We all have our own opinions on the subject. And the ones I know that don't approve of Harry Potter don't go out and throw red paint on people carrying Harry Potter books (that's more a tactic of the supposedly "more tolerant" opposite end of the spectrum). The way they affect you and me who want to watch the movie? They don't allow THEIR OWN kids to read/watch it. Wow, that affects you so much, doesn't it? And those same parents are jsut as strict about Narnia and Lord of the Rings(this one family is also really touchy about any kind of violent content, including the very mild violence stuff in Louis L'Amour westerns.) And then dewijnboer says about us Christians: "We all have to listen to their ideas, but they will not listen to ours." I'm not even going to go into detail, but I'll assure you there are far more non-Christian and anti-Christian messages that are beaten over people's heads than Christian ones. And really, when did Christian "propoganda" as some of you call it become something to be offended by or threatened by? As if it's some insidious evil thing that might corrupt you. How can anyone be threatened by something that is about nothing but love and redemption? If you aren't a Christian, fine. If you dont' agree with Christianity, fine. But that you could be civil about it and stop insulting us at every opportunity. I'm sure there are a lot of your beliefs I think are wrong, but I'm not going to tell you you're scum of the earth for it. (Well, except for that REALLY demented stuff you do in your basement...you know what I'm talking about you sicko!) Oh, and I'm going to see the Narnia movie because it looks really cool, not because it is or isn't a Christian allegory. There have been plenty of Christian-themed movies that weren't worth watching. If I just watched anything because it had Christian undertones or theme, I'd watch PAX all the time, but you know what? It's in the category of HGTV, WE, and MTV. Crappy programming, sub-par quality, and/or very little that is in my sphere of interest. When PAX starts showing sci-fi or comedy shows or starts showing stuff more on the quality level of Passion of the Christ or Narnia, I might watch it. But crap is crap, whether it's got a Christian message or not. Narnia piques my interest for the same reasons Lord of the Rings did, and for the same reasons the Narnia books were cool when I was in 3rd grade.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 7:01 p.m. CST

    Okay, everyone gets a free shot

    by Daredevil

    After posting I

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 7:03 p.m. CST

    As I was saying before the enter key so rudely interrupted...

    by Daredevil

    After posting I realized how long it was. So for making the longest post so far, everyone gets to take a free shot at kicking me in the nuts. (um, that's a virtual kick...no coming to my house to deliver that in person, please.)

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 1:10 a.m. CST

    Harry Potter is not Christian.............

    by Capt. Blackadder

    He is a Republican. A Bush buddy.

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 7:26 a.m. CST

    OK, enough Christian-baiting...

    by Roguewriter

    Who wants to go back to kicking around the French for awhile? =)

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 10:52 a.m. CST

    "Scary talking monkeys"

    by Childe Roland

    Do you mean people? Yeah...they kind of freak me out, too. ;)

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 3:52 p.m. CST

    My favorite part is when Santa whips out a Battle Axe ...and nex

    by JDanielP

    Burgers for everyone!

  • Nov. 19, 2005, 2:55 a.m. CST

    Daredevil

    by drew mcweeny

    I'd like to see one place where I've denigrated Christians or other people of faith on this site, or used Christian as a dirty word. I think hardcore fundamentalism of any faith can be a little scary, but I would extend that to anyone who is single-minded to the point of obsessiveness. I think the vast majority of people of faith are people who take solace and comfort from the things they've chosen to believe in, and I have a hearty respect for that. I'm just as tired of people attacking the royal "Us" on the site as you are of whatever imagined slights we've hurled at Christianity. Considering how rarely I am willing to discuss my own politics or religious beliefs on this site, it's amazing how often people are sure they know what they are.

  • Nov. 19, 2005, 12:51 p.m. CST

    ScytheofLooney, regardless of who you reside with, it's what

    by AntoniusBloc

    Simply, if you deny that Christianity is meant to be in Narnia or Lord of the Rings you're simply wrong. The authors themselves make that clear. My point about the 'universal myth' is what was also the key to the conversion of Lewis to Christianity: when his friend Tolkien explained the Christian story as the one TRUE myth in history; myth, being the reflection of man's objective desire, is fulfilled in history by Jesus Christ. The mythology that came before Christ was the question, and God Incarnate, is the answer. Therefore, myths are a reflection of the true desire for Paradise lost, for the Divine. Lord of the Rings and Narnia also reflect this desire, the difference being that the authors understand the answer to our desires, and our redemption from our fallen state to be the story of Christ. Lewis also says himself that Aslan is the form God would take in a world such as Narnia, if it really existed. Therefore, the story of Aslan and his sacrifice is not directly parallel to the story of Christ. As for your accusation that I only enjoy something labeled Christian, couldn't be further from the truth. First of all, do I know you, because such a conclusion, it seems, could only be made if someone really knows me. Let's see, my favorite film this year, so far, is Batman Begins, don't think that's Christian (excluding the actor's name). Lawrence of Arabia is one of my favorite films of all time, don't think that's Christian. I feel stupid responding to such an accusation because it's so ridiculous, but here's the thing: I'm barely smart enough to understand when certain modern films have an underlying theme that is meant to belittle or ridicule my faith, or my belief (as Tolkien and Lewis believed) in objective morality. Sincere belief in the Christian story does not make one fundamentalist (Neither Tolkien nor Lewis were fundamentalists). I also think that films that ignore the understanding of an objective right and wrong, or good and evil, tend to lack depth and direction, and usually end up being boring. Batman isn't Christian, but it does bring up themes such as Justice, as an absolute, not as subjective value.

  • Nov. 19, 2005, 4:39 p.m. CST

    gambit....yes, it's off-topic but since there is no topic ab

    by Darth Pestilence

    i nominate the french guy from ocean's twelve in the role of gambit. sure. the one who danced through the lasers.

  • Nov. 21, 2005, 7:43 a.m. CST

    Amen on Babe 2, both of those pig movies were fucking genius.

    by minderbinder

    I don't think Potter/Narnia/Kong will have any negative effect on each other, if anything people will get jazzed that there are good movies (something we've only had a couple of so far this year) and want to see more. Potter 1 came out within a couple weeks of Monsters Inc. Potter movies have been out at the same time as LOTR. And all have killed at the box office. I think all three will likely be solid movies, and I'd be very surprised if any of them fail to make 200M domestic. Potter is already halfway there, and is looking more like 250 already.