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Sony's got a rival 9/11 film with Don Cheadle and... Adam Sandler?

Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with a little info on yet another 9/11 flick that Sony is circling at the moment called REIGN O'ER ME, not to be confused with WORLD TRADE CENTER or SEPTEMBER or whatever the hell Oliver Stone is calling his movie with Nic Cage now.

Writer-director Mike Binder (Mind of the Married Man, dude that Tom Cruise saw himself kill in the future in MINORITY REPORT and the recent film fest favorite THE UPSIDE OF ANGER) wrote the script and has Don Cheadle and Adam Sandler "poised to join him." People give Sandler shit, but I thought his work with Paul Thomas Anderson in PUNCH-DRUNK LOVE was very solid. Don Cheadle is one of the masters of the form right now.

I know for many it is still too soon for Hollywood to make a movie about 9/11, but it's not an uncommon trend. There were Pearl Harbor films out within a year of the Japanese attack (of the rah-rah propaganda variety), Vietnam films out while we were still in Vietnam. I know that personally I am ready to see a great story set against this back drop. If you have a master like Don Cheadle involved, all the better. What about you folks?

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  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:26 a.m. CST

    I don't get Don Cheadle.

    by Rearden

    I don't know why, but he just doesn't do it for me.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:26 a.m. CST


    by T-Pot25


  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:27 a.m. CST

    Dah, I knew I was too slow!

    by T-Pot25

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:28 a.m. CST

    It has nothing to do with timing

    by KCMOSHer

    Man, people keep missing the point here, you included (and I mean everyone at AICN I've seen comment on 9/11 films). The timing is not the issue. During WWII, America trusted it's film industry. They knew it wouldn't rape the memory of the men lost in the attack in order to further their own agenda. Right now, with a complete nutjob like Stone in play, America is more than a little leary. Stone's had no problem rewriting history at the expense of fine, dead men before, so we're a little nervous that he'll do the same here, just to forward more of the schizo bullshit he's said at press conferences. This one sounds more solid, but still...we've seen Hollywood become an almost-completely dedicated liberal political propaganda machine in the last 20 years. They really haven't shown themselves eager to release an honest, agenda-free examination of an event as flammable as 9/11. You can expect nothing but nerves until the movies are out and have been seen.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:28 a.m. CST

    Stop wasting time and post your DVD list Harry...

    by indiephantom

    9/11 is so 2001.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:30 a.m. CST

    Too soon

    by CeeBeeUK

    Don Cheadle is one of the best actors I have seen in ages and Adam Sandler can be good when he tones down the crazy, but this and Stone are way too soon.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:33 a.m. CST

    Well Quint is ready, so who are we to disagree...

    by Alonzo Mosely

    Lets hope Sandler does a whacky voice, maybe even a facial tick...

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:35 a.m. CST

    go ahead and tell everyone you know that Hollywood is making a n

    by freak2thec0re

    if you can find one person who doesn't roll their eyes and sarcasticly say "way to go, America", then you've found one more than me. It *is* too soon, and feels so much like capitalizing off what happened that I feel like a lot of people won't be able to take it seriously at all

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:37 a.m. CST

    keep Adam Sandler's GOP voting, homophobic ass away from 9/1

    by Chief Redcock

    I'd rather see Stone involved in a project like this than someone like Sandler... I wanted to throw up when he performed at the GOP national convention. Fucking Republican pieces of shit. Die of the plague and burn in hell you fucking cocksuckers.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:41 a.m. CST

    So you think if they wait another five years the film will be be

    by indiephantom

    ...and America will have its head further up its ass. This is going to play out like the Vietnam war did in American cinema. Wait too long and they'll make a film where they actaully believe the patriotic nonsense and claim no responsibility for the terrorism. Waiting means trying to forget and not understand. I can't support that.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:43 a.m. CST

    Big Momma's House 2?

    by Det. John Kimble

    AAAAAAAAARGH. torture yo-self:

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:48 a.m. CST

    Ok, where's Allen Funt?

    by SmarkJobber

    No...? Maybe April 1st came early this year. *checks calendar* Nope. Well, if this news is true, I'm speechless -- and that's too bad, because Quint wrote some whoppers in the above post ripe for the bitching.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 2:05 a.m. CST

    i'm going to agree with mike binder sucking ass

    by MiltonWaddams

    mind of the married man was unwatchable crap, although his wife on the show was delicious. but honestly, you all knew the movie was going to be made, might as well throw adam sandler in their. it's going to be a glorified retelling bordering on propaganda, and you all know it.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 2:06 a.m. CST

    Suprised that Michael Bay isn't doing a 9/11 film...

    by Kampbell-Kid

    Oh wait, thats all his films.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 2:09 a.m. CST

    And now we get...

    by BCfreeB

    A race to see who can get their movie out first, because it will be more controversial and cause more press, AND the first one out will get the golden opportunity to "tastefully" dedicate the film to those who died in the attacks. I don't really attach too much of a moral value to making or not making these films, but come on people...the movies are being made for one reason and one reason only--to capitalize on a national disaster and make money. It happens all the time; disaster movies are rampant. They've already made a tv movie about the "biggest hurricane EVER" ala Katrina. The only thing that angers me is when they pretend it's a "tribute" to those who died, or when they talk about how "important" the film will be as a living monument to make sure all americans remember the tragedy of 9-11. They'll use subtle language and try and keep as PC as possible, but will never come out and say the truth--"We know this movie will make a shitload of money so it got greenlit, and we're just trying to capitalize on the free publicity and, at the same time, convince everyone that the film is tasteful, artistic, landmark movie-making that serves to honor those who died." Bullshit, guys. In 20-30 years (maybe less) we'll get the dozens of 9-11 movies that spout off conspiracy theories, examine the lives of the hijackers, etc etc. And at least then things will be a little more honest, if a little less dignified.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 3:29 a.m. CST

    "American is bettah! I go in first and clean owt the first towe

    by InspectorDoppler

    The amazing thing is, this will STILL be a more sensative, thoughtful treatment than the Oliver Stone 9/11 flick.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 3:41 a.m. CST

    Adam Sandler Will Play Bush.

    by buster00

    And he'll just sit there looking at the book about goats with that oh-so-patented Sandler Smirk like he's not in ANY DANGER AT ALL! And the Secret Service will just LET him! Almost as if they KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THE PRESIDENT ISN'T IN ANY DANGER EITHER! Am I being clear enough here? among other delightful reading.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:02 a.m. CST

    It's too soon's too soon, too soon.

    by seppukudkurosawa

    There's no way I'm going to see a film on 9/11, even by Ollie Stone. I just can't think of any spin you could put on the thing to make it entertaining. The reason probably being that people seem to lose all objectivity when it comes to the media-touted ordeal, and it'll no doubt become another jingo-fest. I guess it could be possible to make a sort of Towering Inferno for the noughties, but even then we're talking about Adam Sandler playing Steve Mcqueen here and Don Cheadle playing OJ Simpson. OK, maybe that last bit of casting would be an improvement. I just get slo-mo images come to mind of Adam Sandler's grimacing mug emerging from a smoke-cloud with a shaggy puppy in one arm and a dust-smothered little girl in another. No thank you.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:09 a.m. CST

    Sandler should stick to "crazy paper plate head" sort of stuff.

    by matersuspiriorum

    Punch Drunk Love was terrible.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:10 a.m. CST

    And Don Cheadle's accent in Ocean's Twelve was terrible.

    by matersuspiriorum

    Anyone who can't do a good simple accent, you have to wonder about.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:18 a.m. CST


    by DocPazuzu

    I was wondering how long it would take for the first conspiratard to show up in this talkback. Lo and behold: within 20 posts it happens. Congratulations, Buster00, you "win". Now we can all just sit back and wait for the floodgates of insanity to open and enjoy marvelous posts about faked beheadings, missiles disguised as planes, sinister phone calls warning people to leave the buildings, the moon landing "hoax", UFOs, Bigfoot, Elvis, and how every American politician who has died of anything other than old age over the past 40 years was murdered by a secret cabal of Jews, conservatives, freemasons, shriners, Amway salesmen and the Loch Ness monster.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:24 a.m. CST

    Michael Bay is never gonna work in this town again...

    by redtom

    ...after the travesty that was The Island...

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:24 a.m. CST

    Is Adam Sandler playing one of the israeli's that were caugh

    by yodas_dad

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:31 a.m. CST


    by ChickenGeorgeVII

    Let's make it a comedy!!!! Better yet...a MUSICAL COMEDY!!!! YEAH!!! WITH A GREAT BIG FINALE DANCE NUMBER!!!! "da na na na na na na na *THUD* da da da da dum dum de dum de de de dum dum *SMASH* na na na na na *CRASH* da da da na da da da dum dum *SKKKKRAUNNCH* fa na na na na *KKKRRREEEAAAAEEEKKKK* da da na na na na na *KERRRRUUUNNNNCCHHHHHRRRUUUUNNNNKKK*" ...And thus, that's a toe tapper! - - - George, The 7th Chicken!!!!

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:31 a.m. CST

    Doc Pazazu is obviously one of those people...

    by seppukudkurosawa

    who, while watching an episode of the X-Files, scream at the television set, "NO!! The truth most definitely is NOT out there. Idiots! Liars! Buffoons!". If someone gets off on these conspiracies, let them. It's their prerogative. I'd be more concerned at this chronic sighing disorder of yours, it might be that you're developing a bad case of asthma. In which case, buy yourself an inhaler and relax.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:35 a.m. CST

    Doc...I love ya....BUT DON'T FUCK WITH NESSIE!

    by ChickenGeorgeVII

    What you got against The Loch Ness Monster???? huh? Did she refuse to sign an autograph for you? Tough shit...we all got nothin' from her. She's a diva. Love her for it! She shows up when she damn well pleases and we should thankful. And the stuff about Elvis is true. I just saw him on last Sunday when I had to chase him off my lawn for trying to sell me Amway shit.....And thus, I'm late for drinks with Sasquach! - - - George, The 7th Chicken!!!!

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:37 a.m. CST


    by DocPazuzu

    Somehow I can't find myself getting too worked up at comments by a person who on occasion has stated that the world wouldn't have been a worse place if the Nazis had won WWII rather than the Allies. Besides, didn't you say you were going to leave AICN after we had been so mean to you?

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 5 a.m. CST

    Evil dancing jews...

    by Alonzo Mosely

    Still my fav new AICN catchphrase in months... And leave Nessie alone, I am fairly sure I woke up next to her in college. To be fair, I had just grabbed the nearest thing after seeing my ex-girlfriend with the guy who used to sleep on my couch, rent free. It could have been worse, at least Nessie is a girl...

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 5:18 a.m. CST

    just not interested...9\11 is still talked about so much

    by jrbarker

    that I'm kind of sick of it to be honest. I wouldn't pay 10 bucks to relive that day again.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 5:29 a.m. CST

    Those Who Forget The Lessons Of History Are Doomed To Repeat The

    by Ill Clinton

    We NEED films like this to remind us that we must remain alert to the dangers we face as a nation. Not an exploitation flick for some fast cash, but a film that captures the essence of that time in history when Americans were in the cross hairs of the crazies.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 5:54 a.m. CST

    I still remember the day those towers fell...

    by morgenes25

    One of the best nights of television ever. I won $50 off a friend betting that the second tower would also fall down. And did you see those idiots trying to escape by jumping out of windows 30 floors up - clever bastards, weren't they? "Watch me fly, Ma!" Hil-fucking-arious.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 5:54 a.m. CST

    No, I Won't Mention That 9/11 Was A Coverup Or Inside Job

    by pockybot

    Because that will all come up in the mainstream at some point in history. What I want to say is that why is Harry saying these are the first 9/11 movies? Did anyone forget The Guys or 25th Hour? The Guys especially was entirely about the firefighters that day, and came out a few years ago. A very good movie. The other seriously damn good 9/11 movie is Martial Law 9/11: Rise of a Police State. I'd also have to say Revenge of the Sith was a good 9/11 truth movie.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 5:59 a.m. CST

    morgenes25, you sir, are a fucking moron

    by jrbarker

    grow up

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 6:01 a.m. CST

    IMHO Hollywood already made its first truly solid post 9/11 piec

    by enemakid

    Paul Haggis' Crash. Thats just my humble opinion though... i thought the issues it addressed, heavy handed or otherwise, were America's first real introspection of post 9/11 sentiment...

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 6:13 a.m. CST

    Can people finally put this "post 9/11" shit to rest

    by seppukudkurosawa

    I'd understand "post mom dying" or "post flipping out and shooting my dog in the eye with a beretta", but get some perspective here. Maybe you knew someone in the building, then sure, you've been personally affected. But seriously, it has been blown a wee incy little bit out of proportion by self-eating media moguls if you ask me.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 6:29 a.m. CST

    It's not that it's too soon

    by Citizen Arcane

    It's that we've been inundated with it for 4 years now. How many times have we seen the towers fall and pictures of the terrorists and the same shit over and over again. How many political speeches referenced 9/11 for no reason, the most recent being Bush whenever he talks about invading Iraq, even though the two have nothing to do with each other? It's not that it's too soon, it's just that we haven't gotten a break from 9/11 by either the media to squeeze some more ratings points or politicians who want to use it for their own agenda. We're just tired of hearing about it and we sure a hell don't need a feature film about it.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 6:31 a.m. CST

    Still never heard a good argument why it's not 11/9

    by Chopper3

    Everywhere other than the US does year/month/day or day/month/year as they go largest to smallest or the opposite - doing month/day/year makes no sense at all. Not trying to be rude, just don't get it - everytime I hear "9/11" it just makes non-US people thing "odd", the only argument I've ever heard was "'cos that's how it's done here" which is fine but no explanation.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 6:32 a.m. CST


    by EyeofPolyphemus

    It will be fascinating as the project nears completion just how much press it gets. Will the Bill O

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 6:42 a.m. CST

    Oliver Stone...Jingoistic?

    by Junior Frenger

    Obviously no one on this talkback have actually watched oliver stones films.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 6:50 a.m. CST

    Because that's how we do the date in the US, Chopper3

    by Citizen Arcane

    How is that difficult to understand?

  • Which is to say, it makes perfect sense. Our entire system of measuring time is completely arbitrary, except for the length of the year (and even that is off by 1/4 of a day). If the U.S. should change its conventional dating system just because the rest of the world does it backwards, then every country that drives on the left side of the road should switch. And the latter example actually causes deaths. Get over it. So back on topic, Hollywood makes movies about disasters like the Titanic and Pearl Harbor because they offer period detail, visual spectacle, and a familiar general story which most people don't know in a lot of depth. Problem is, unlike those previous two examples, everyone saw the Towers collapse, so there's no spectacle. It happened four years ago, so there's no period detail. And we've heard every single thing there is to be said about 9/11 from every corner of the political spectrum, so its overly familiar. Maybe in 30 years, when it's possible to present both perspectives without being branded an un-American traitor, a decent 9/11 film can be made. Right now its an opportunistic flag-waving cash-in.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 7:06 a.m. CST

    No offence guys but you paid money to watch Jesus get flogged fo

    by Silver_Joo

    I suspect you'll be there for any film about 9/11, regardless of who is in it. There are lots of stories to tell even though I prefer the films so far (two) and TV shows (Sopranos) that have written 9/11 into the story in the way that it might affect people that weren't in New York that day. I prefer this subtle approach, rather than some gung ho bollocks but hey, Hollywood would rather make Green Berets all over again.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 7:11 a.m. CST

    "post flipping out and shooting my dog in the eye with a beretta

    by performingmonkey

    Cheney and the Pentagon orchestrated the attacks. The attacks had been planned since they reinforced that wall of the Pentagon that the plane hit, maybe even before then, when the WTC towers were built. They were just waiting for the right moment to execute the operation. You have to ask what is more important to them, 3000 innocent lives or billions of dollars and the secured future of America? This is what it is all about. This is why Pearl Harbour was allowed to happen. It's why the monkey Bush had to be President in 2001. This is why people the world over are forced into believing non-truths. But hey, it's a 9/11 movie, should be cool, bet it makes $500 million domestically. The goverment would welcome countless 9/11 movies. After all, the more the events of the day are fictionalized and sensationalized, the more the truth and the horror of it all gets pushed to the back of people's minds. Sure, it'll never leave the minds of people who lost loved ones but their numbers are insignificant compared with the millions that will see the movies.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 7:56 a.m. CST

    As Long As We See DARTH CHENEY Give COUNT BIN LADEN the Go-Ahead

    by ZombieSolutions

    9/11 was an inside job, peoples. what better way to legitimize an Endless War based on lies? engineer the war with a staged terrorist attack, of course! as we have seen with Katrina, civilian casualties don't really seem to bother the Bush/Cheney administration all that much; the deaths in the WTC were 'acceptable losses' in order to get the Endless War going... search your feelings, you know it to be true. btw, another thing, there is no Homeland Secrurity. so wheres all that money really going? *cough* halliburton *cough*...

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 7:57 a.m. CST

    Pulling Punches on TV

    by The Colonel

    Lost, 24...they all cheat! ------------------

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:01 a.m. CST


    by Cod Profundity

    how dumb can you be, if measurement of time is arbitary how can the rest of the world have it backwards? Think before you type.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:17 a.m. CST

    You know, ZomSol...

    by DocPazuzu becomes a hell of a lot harder to level real criticism at the opportunism which big business has indulged in post 9-11 when the more loony conspiracy theories are given equal emphasis. The more science-fictional the theories become, the less weight will sensible opponents of the Bush regime be able to muster behind their cause. Everyone screaming about missiles disguised as planes or a "phony" terrorist attack are actually doing Bush, Cheney and the rest of those cockheads a bigger service than their own spinmasters.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:18 a.m. CST

    You know, I gotta ask...

    by Mutant X

    Why is it that, regardless of who writes a story on AICN, there are always people who address the writer as "Harry"? Are people really that unobservant? If the article starts with the words "AHOY, SQUIRTS!", odds are it ISN'T HARRY.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:33 a.m. CST

    Everything about America is backwards - from an outsiders POV

    by BendersShinyAss

    You have 'Yards' - We have 'meters'. You have 'Miles' - We have 'Kilometers'. You have 'feet' - We have 'Meters'. You drive on the right hand side of the road but the left hand side of the car (Man, that must suck!) You're celebrities are all beautiful and surgically enhanced. Our celebrities have actually done stuff that has somehow affected the way we think of view something. I'm keen to see Adam Sandler do his angry face and viscious yell "Look what those mutha fucking Arabs did to my City!!" These films will kick arse. The more 11/9 films the better. Confuse the audiances with what really happened to what the film's' say happened. The tv and politicians change the 'real' story all the time. So do the Newspapers. At least the Internet is able to show some consistancies. I'm going to go rea dup on Narnia now.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:35 a.m. CST

    "Reign O'Er Me"? Are you fucking kidding me?

    by FluffyUnbound

    If and when a 9/11 movie is made, please don't piss on the memory of the dead by giving the film a LAME ASS SMARMY MAUDLIN SENTIMENTAL POETIC / POLITICAL title. "Reign O'Er Me"? What, was "Freedom, Freedom, Free Free Free" already copyrighted by someone else? Here's a hint: if it's too corny to be the title of an Oprah book, it's too corny to be the title of a 9/11 film.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:50 a.m. CST

    You May Be Right, DocPaz...

    by ZombieSolutions

    but, i mean, c'mon, this is AICN, not "Meet the Press". all overstatement / exagerration aside, i can't help but think there were dirty behind the scenes dealings going on here. missles disguised as planes? no, that's dumb. ignoring intelligence / terror warnings on purpose? i'd argue it's extremely likely given the administrations goals... an administration that used to be good friends with the alleged engineer of the attacks? cmon, it's fishy to say the least. then again, that could have just been another example of the administrations outrageous incompentance. i guess at this point, probably the only thing that can be proved is how the administration cooked the intelligence on Iraq (and another olde friend of Cheney / Rummy / Bush Sr. -- Saddam Hussein)... ignoring the terror warnings of 9/11 (which the administration did) could at best be proven to be another example of their incompetance / criminal negligence... sort of like what they've done with the No Child Left Untested er Every Child Left Behind er No Child Left Behind act (the latest republican push to eliminate public education for the poor altogether)

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:57 a.m. CST

    Big Momma's House 2 or a spot on 9/11 flick...

    by MrNelson

    You choose... You choose... You choose...

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:59 a.m. CST


    by DocPazuzu

    You hit the problem with the looniest conspiratards right on the head. They will alternately accuse the Bush regime of utter stupidity and incompetence as well as engineering the most ingenious and logistically staggering plot in history, and only do so when it fits in with their tinfoil-hatter delusions. A blurry image of an "altered plane fuselage"? Haha, stupid Bush, we found you out! A plot so intricate that its byzantine structure can't be detected by others than internet geeks with political axes to grind? Nothing but a testament to the brilliant machiavellian machinations of the "Jew-neocon cabal" in play. They keep trying to have it both ways.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:06 a.m. CST

    You confuse me DocPazuzu

    by BendersShinyAss

    Where do you stand on all this stuff? I've watched you duke it out with a lot of people here. Yet still I can't seem to figure out anything except for (a) you do not like Bush and (b) you think everything anyone ever says about the man and his administration is a crazy conspiracy. don't get me wrong. i'm not digging on you, I have no idea who the hell you are or where you really stand. I'm just curious if you actually have a stand point, or are you just waiting to cut down the next person who has anything to say negative about the bush administration. Please enlighten me.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:08 a.m. CST

    9-11, aside from being the American way of representing the date

    by Childe Roland

    ...had a real catchy media hook in that it's also the sequence of numbers most folks in the U.S. dial to request emergency medical, fire and police services. "Rescue 9-1-1" was an incredibly popular, highly rated TV show (featuring the ever-so-sincere voice of Bill Shatner) and actually helped usher in the dark age of television known as "reality" programming, of which the weeks and months following the 9-11 attacks were a prime example. It was a date and an event perfectly timed and orchestrated for mass media coverage. Whoever was truly behind it, you have to give them props for that. As for the notion that the U.S. instigated or allowed the atttacks to happen, I think it's way to early to rule that possibility out entirely. It's that or they fucked up and failed to prevent the attacks. would you rather believe your government was nefarious or inept? I'll wait until more facts are in before making that difficult choice. And you can bet no movie is going to make it any easier.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:15 a.m. CST


    by MrNelson

    The U.S. is doomed anyway so who cares. Remember what happened to the Romans. Used up all resources and... only a crumbly Coloseum remains. Enjoy your last decade of decadence because you will be begging natives Indians for water in about two.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:26 a.m. CST

    Please, A Moment for Bush's Legacy

    by MinasTirithII

    "Wow! Brazil is big." --------

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:36 a.m. CST


    by DocPazuzu

    It's not as complicated as it looks. I'm a moderate, with liberal leanings on some issues and conservative views on others. The people I tend to get in arguments with are rabid zealots on the far left and far right who believe and defend ANYTHING as long as it's on their side of the playing field. It's their complete lack of nuance and critical thought which galls me, especially since they think of themselves as clear-sighted and enlightened. I'm sure you know the type: "All liberals are communists!" and "All conservatives are fascists!"

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:45 a.m. CST

    Please, A Moment for Bush's Legacy, part two

    by MrNelson

    GO FIND A REAL JOB! --------- George W. Bush, after seeing his nemesis Micheal Moore at a convention... ...Iraq, Usama, Katrina, Al Sarquawi, Aby Graib, Carl Rove / Scooter Libby, Iraq, Usama, Katrina, Al Sarquawi, Aby Graib, Carl Rove / Scooter Libby, Iraq, Usama, Katrina, Al Sarquawi, Aby Graib, Carl Rove / Scooter Libby, Iraq, Usama, Katrina, Al Sarquawi, Aby Graib, Carl Rove / Scooter Libby, Iraq, Usama, Katrina, Al Sarquawi, Aby Graib, Carl Rove / Scooter Libby, Iraq, Usama, Katrina, Al Sarquawi, Aby Graib, Carl Rove / Scooter Libby...

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:46 a.m. CST

    question for Bender'sShinyAss

    by m2298

    "Our celebrities have actually done stuff that has somehow affected the way we think of view something. [I assume that there is supposed to be an "or" before "view"]" Where exactly do you hail from? In the year 2005, it seems that all "celebrities", US, local and international, are the same sort of lightweight entertainers, sports figures and (occasionally) politicians. Could you name the important celebrities of your home nation for us?

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 9:46 a.m. CST

    There is a third possibility other than conspiracy or ineptitude

    by FluffyUnbound

    That possibility is: the terrorists did something right for a change. That possibility seems the most difficult for people to accept. It's a big world. There are billions of people in that big world. It is not possible to be aware of every act all those billions of people might potentially undertake. Sometimes, some of those people will set out to commit a crime, and sometimes they will succeed. No matter what you do, and no matter how careful you are. Because no one has a monopoly on competence or intelligence. That's the thing I find most galling about both the conspiracy theorists and the 9/11 Commission "let's blame the FBI and CIA and call them incompetent and negligent" scapegoating crowd - they have a remarkably childish view of the world, one where the "bad guys" never win just because they did their homework. When Britain faced the IRA, not every successful IRA attack was the result of a conspiracy or negligence on the part of the SAS. Sometimes it was just the IRA's day to win. When the Palestinians launch a successful attack in Israel, it's not because of a government conspiracy or because Mossad and the Israeli Army are fuckups. It's because somebody on the Palestinian side did something right that day. With 19 guys who are willing to die and who are all on the same page, you can kill a lot of people - even if the government is trying its best to stop you.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:01 a.m. CST

    Seriously Chief Redcock?

    by ClarkK82

    How do you think its appropriate to talk about another group of people in such a way and still think that your views have any respectability what so ever? I'm pretty sure there are rules about Hate speak' on this site and people have gotten kicked off in the past for saying similar ignorant statements. I just hope Harry doesn't let his politics get in the way and boots your ass off the boards. There she be no place for this kind of unabashed stupidity. this also goes for the homophobes, racists, and religous fanatics. People are different, get over it.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:10 a.m. CST

    people give sandler too much crap

    by gobbles15

    sandler is actually a good actor when he wants to be, i don't think he would screw this movie up, but you never know

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:10 a.m. CST


    by seppukudkurosawa

    For his vehement discrimination of homophobes, racists, religious fanatics and Commanche Chiefs (Redcock famously taught his cousin Sitting Bull how to speak English in exchange for a chiefship over the whole of Canada...Sitting Bull didn't really think much of Canada, "Land of ice and funny people who sayum aboot a lot", so granted it him).

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:11 a.m. CST

    Get over 9/11 already you bunch of pussies!

    by numberface

    Unless your family members died in the attack, quit whining about it. Yeah, yeah, I know it was deeply tragic and horrible and traumatic. But if nothing happened to you personally, shut up about it. You're stealing genuine grief from those that were affected. As for it being immoral or in bad taste to make a movie about the attacks, I think that's a very un-American sentiment. One of the freedoms we enjoy is to take tragic real-life events and turn them into profitable fictional entertainment.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:15 a.m. CST

    Not unless ALL profits go to charity...

    by Cinemajerk

    Yeah. I don't mind an artistic film that helps heal the pysche of particular the direct victims of 9/11. But if the profits don't go to charity...I'd still feel sleazy about the whole project. I live in NY. Worked in the WTC during the first attack(sub basement level 3 one floor below where the bomb went off), and I was downtown during the 2nd attack. Maybe its different being a NY'er too...but i don't think people are going to take too kindly to anything remotely commercial. Stone I trust more then most. But I can't even imagine the reaction if someone like Michael Bay were directing.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:15 a.m. CST

    Morgenes25 is a complete fuckwit. He thinks he's funny; he&#

    by IAmJack'sUserID

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:16 a.m. CST

    "Stone's had no problem rewriting history at the expense of

    by Wee Willie

    Like when? Platoon? Born on the 4th of July? Neither of which rewrote anything and were biographical. If you're referring to JFK, check your facts, bitch. Stone has said frequently that he never intended the various theories that were presented to be "fact", but simply as alternatives to the highly suspect Warren Report. If you're referring to "Nixon", you're wrong again, because the dead guy that movie is based on was in no way a "fine" person. If you're referring to "Salvador", again you're dead wrong because that's a fictional story. If you're referring to "The Doors", I challenge you to identify a single "fine" dead person in that story. You sir, are a moron!!!

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:22 a.m. CST

    FluffyUnbound makes a good point

    by numberface

    But CinemaJerk is an un-American twit. Charity? Dude, there's no law that says you can't exploit real-life events for financial gain. Granted, you can't slander anyone, or use personal stories or identities without permission. But to say that the producers of a 9/11 film have a responsibility to give their profits to charity is one thing and one thing only, my friend: Communism. And that's the very thing we're fighting against in Iraq... Oh, no, wait, we're fighting Terror in Iraq... Scratch that, we're looking for WMD's... Uh, spreading democracy? I don't even know anymore.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:23 a.m. CST

    "He doesn't bother to present alternative evidence"

    by DocPazuzu

    One can't present "alternative" evidence if there hasn't been any evidence presented by the other side than politically biased and kooky websites. As Carl Sagan was fond of saying; "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". So far nothing of the latter has been presented to believably substantiate the most outrageous claims, so I feel no pressing need to vindicate myself or my beliefs -- especially since the conspiratards never believe in just one plot. They buy into all that shit about fake moon landings, staged beheadings, U.S.-induced earthquakes in the Muslim world, Jewish hegemony, satanic cabals, and the Srebrenica "hoax." They're fucking loonies and not worth anything but utter scorn.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:24 a.m. CST

    BendersShinyAss, you have a royal family

    by Citizen Arcane

    End of discussion.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:34 a.m. CST

    Yeah, I agree Paz

    by seppukudkurosawa

    they should all be put in their own little internment camps before we ship them off to somewhere like Luxembourg or Pope Island- you know, somewhere away from us. Fucking mentalists. I hope they all die. You find it quite easy to write people off, don't you? And we've already been presented with your list of conspiracies, there's no need to repeat it. You've obviously been doing a lot of research into these loonies and their obsessions. Are you a masochist by any chance? Are you a half Korean/half Kenyan Civil Rights campaigner who has a weird kink for going on Gay Aryan Resistance chat-rooms under the name "Hans Boormann"? I hope that's working out for you.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:52 a.m. CST


    by DocPazuzu

    So, so you think my calling these morons "loonies" is tantamount to a confession that I believe they should be deported or shut up? Very edgy, SepKu. I suppose you think my tolerance for dissent is non-existent. I wonder what you'd make of the following quote by Wnanahara in an earlier talkback: "People liken Pazuzu feed me. They think they've won, but they will die by my or anothers sword eventually." You're still the guy who said it wouldn't have made any difference if the Nazis had won WWII. Nothing you say after that can be taken seriously -- not even your new, weak sub-GoatZinger witticisms (with apologies to GoatZinger for soiling his good name).

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:58 a.m. CST

    an apology

    by Chief Redcock

    i apologize for the above post. it was done in a moment of haste after a rough day. i don't wish death on all republicans, i just really dislike what they stand for. and it bugs me that stone, one of this country's greatest filmmakers (at least some of the time), receives more criticism for wanting to film a story about 9/11 than someone like sandler, who viciously bashes gays in every so-called "comedy" he's made. i really despise sandler, am dumbfounded by his popularity, and really don't care if he can act or not. there's where i stand. this film might still be good, but sandler on board already makes me skeptical...

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:04 a.m. CST

    The Rise and Fall of an Empire...

    by MrNelson

    Soon on HBO

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:07 a.m. CST

    I was expecting 9/11 movies to come out right before the 2008 el

    by FrodosBlueBalls

    this way the fucking repbulicans can scare us into voting for Jeb Bush or whoever the fuck is gonna run for president.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:09 a.m. CST


    by FrodosBlueBalls

    It is our job to question our government, especially when there are way too many coincidences...and right now...there are way too many coincidences. Only an ignorant moron would take what our administration says at face value. they've been caught lying on multiple occasions and yet they still don't fess up to them.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:11 a.m. CST

    "It is our job to question our government"

    by DocPazuzu

    Couldn't agree more. I don't trust Bush any further than I could throw him.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:12 a.m. CST

    It's too soon for Jackson's KING KONG.

    by indiephantom

    Still haven't recovered from the 1976 version.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:13 a.m. CST

    Damn you Papazu...I was in the mood for a good debate today!!

    by FrodosBlueBalls

    Wheres TrevorFactor when you need him??

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:29 a.m. CST

    I saw Don Cheadle the other day...

    by perromaldito an early "Fresh Prince of Bel Air" how

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:32 a.m. CST

    While one can certainly argue...

    by Childe Roland

    ...that the terrorists just had a really good day on 9-11, I don't think that excuses the U.S. Government from any culpability in failing to prevent the attacks. Let's assume that this was the case...that every agent of our federal government charged with the security of the nation's borders and the protection of its citizens...was doing his or her job to the best of his or her ability (or at least to the minimum acceptable standards of the time) in the days, weeks and months leading up to 9-11. If anything, the success of the attacks calls the standards to which we held our government employees and our concept of security into serious question. Some might argue that the government was quick to rectify this general lack of preparedness with the Patriot Act (which I won't argue the relative merits or pitfalls of here). But does that excuse the complete and utter lack of foresight? Anyone with a passing knowledge of history, world events and politics knows that terrorism, in a post-1970s world, has become an increasingly popular method of public expression for political, philosophical and religous extremists the world over. It is a tactic that has been embraced vigorouosly by a number of Middle Eastern organizations (to my knowledge, no nation has officially embraced terrorism as a tenet of its national culture, despite the suggestion of our administration tot he contrary) and the United States' foreign policy as it concerns the Middle East has been unpopular with the general population of the majority of MIddle Eastern countries, to say the least (anyone else remember the Iran hostage crisis?). Especially after the Oklahoma City Bombing, to believe that Americans were somehow insulated against what has become a global wave of purposeful violence simply by virtue of their location on American soil was demonstrative of a dangerous and, quite frankly, unbelievable level of national naivet

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:36 a.m. CST

    Mind of the Married Man SUCKED ASS...

    by Darth Sticky

    ...and so will this fucking movie. Fuck Oliver Stone too.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:36 a.m. CST

    Adam Sandler...

    by JaeZion Keep him in stupid comedies with his SNL buddies. He's good with the dumbed-down, fucus-grouped, PG-13 crap. He could never "really" act. As referenced above, see Punch-Drunk Love.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:46 a.m. CST

    Cheadle - Tishimingo Blues ! ! !

    by Ninja Nerd

    That's the movie that needs a greenlight. Elmore Leonard book with a character Cheadle was born to play. 9/11 flick? Bite me, you money-grubbing fucks.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:54 a.m. CST

    Rescue Me is doing post-9/11 very well

    by hktelemacher

    Everything from the survivors guilt, the post-traumatic stress, the widows, firefighters shamelessly using it to their advantage, street vendors exploiting it, people sick of hearing about it, the pussies who weren't there still falling apart over it, etc etc. Covers all the bases, and because it does it honestly - it's poignant. Leary needs an Emmy. Any Emmy.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:14 p.m. CST

    Childe Roland, you have a point...

    by Blue_Demon

    We were caught unawares. But this horror has made us a bit harder to get to, no? You hear that? That complete and total SILENCE? The sound of NO bombs going off on U.S. soil? Could you have imagined later on that night on September 11 that by the end of 2005 there would be no terrorist attacks in America? Does Bush get any credit for that? Hell no. Perhaps playing "slappy face" with a terror suspect in Guantanamo saved thousands of U.S. lives. Perhaps carrying the fight to them kept them busy.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:16 p.m. CST

    Can't Wait For Sandler To Giggle His Way Through This One!


    Maybe Don Cheadle can make Adam Sandler look like an actor. Together, maybe they can make this look like a movie. Could happen.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:16 p.m. CST

    "I made a typo on that "sword" statement "

    by DocPazuzu

    Yes, I do remember your assertion that you had mistyped that post and that I was "to die by another's word", which -- since it makes no sense whatsoever -- just might be the worst attempted save by a talkbacker ever.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:20 p.m. CST

    very topical

    by w1k

    the timing couldn't have been better

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:20 p.m. CST

    Mike Binder?!?

    by Blanket-Man

    Jeez, he wasn't funny on "Make Me Laugh" 20 years ago, and he's less funny now. He made Bruce Baum and the Unknown Comic look like comedy gold back then -- and should've hung it up shortly thereafter. Please keep him miles away from 9/11 or Quadrophenia or whatever Sony wants to call it...

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:21 p.m. CST

    Oh, and Wnanahara7...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...please post some more links to your "reliable" news sources, like that one whose main purpose seems to be to fellate Slobodan Milosovic.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Childe Roland

    by DocPazuzu

    Agreed. One hundred percent right on the money.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:25 p.m. CST

    "The sound of NO bombs going off on U.S. soil?"

    by FrodosBlueBalls

    I don't think that has anything to do with Bush or taking the fight to them at all. Do you think terrorists are sitting around going..."hmmm if we attack the US, then the US will attack a country that has nothing to do with us, maybe we shouldn't do this"...what happened was the govt employees got off of their fat ass and started to do their jobs. Has anybody here ever worked at a govt agency?? They are the laziest motherfuckers on the planet who just coast at their jobs and don't do shit. However, after 9/11 these idiots realized that their inability to do their jobs has been magnified significantly and can't afford another mishap. So really the only thing thats changed since 9/11 is that these govt agencies suddenly came down with a case of self-preservation and are doing their jobs only so they don't get fired. Bush is an absolute moron and in now way shape or form should be applauded for the US not being attacked.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:25 p.m. CST

    BUsh Lies, lots of people are dying

    by MinasTirithII

    It's really that simple.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:27 p.m. CST

    Bush Fails on all Levels

    by MinasTirithII


  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Come on Paz, must use that lateral part of your brain, I know yo

    by seppukudkurosawa

    What weapons other than the sharp prong of words do us talkbackers have to wield? You really are a stubborn little wretch aren't you? A person who wakes up in the morning with a perfect image of his own narrow world, and whenever anyone else claims not to abide by this image you get vewy vewy angwy until you think that you might just explode! Even Harry (under his George the VIIth Chicken guise) told you to ease down with the malevolence earlier. Think about it, which way is more productive: trying to understand what drives a person to behave in a way you find objectionable, or simply calling people "fucking loonies and not worth anything but utter scorn". Maybe it's a tension build-up in your spine that's causing this stress, in which case take the valium prescribed to you by your doctor and cool it down a little.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:28 p.m. CST

    "I can thus assume you were trying a 'save' then?"

    by DocPazuzu

    No, a save is when you try to go back and rewrite everything about something you've said or done to make it seem better or different than its original intent. Admitting that I was wrong about you and GingerTwit hardly constitutes an attempted save.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:35 p.m. CST

    I would derive absolutely no benefit from "attempting to underst

    by FluffyUnbound

    I know that nowadays "conflict resolution" techniques built on "understanding" are all the rage, but I can't be bothered to make the effort. Personally, I don't think that calling someone a fucking loon is a sign of stress. When I call people who think that "ZOG" was behind 9/11 loons, it's actually LESS stress than attempting to think of a way to illuminate what passes for their minds. Casually dismissing these people and their meagre and pathetic opinions can actually be a stress reducer, if you do it with a little humor. But hey, I'm the person who thinks it's LESS stressful to honk your horn and curse at people in traffic than it is to try to bottle your irritation up - so maybe you can't go by me. DocPazuzu may be different.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:38 p.m. CST


    by DocPazuzu

    Calling people "loonies" and trying to understand them are not two mutually exclusive actions. Furthermore, I'm not angry. It takes a lot more than that. Oh, and if by "a perfect image of his own narrow world" you're also describing the notion that the world ended up being a better place because the Nazis were defeated, then yes, I'll buy that for a dollar. Your right-on, cod philosophical posturing is always entertaining.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:39 p.m. CST

    Um...thanks, Blue_Demon.

    by Childe Roland

    I appreciate your acknowledgement that I had a point...even if you missed it entirely.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:39 p.m. CST

    what he say?

    by MinasTirithII

    The son of famous Jewish violinist Yehudi Menuhin lost his job in Germany over extremist statements. ----------------------- He said Germans are under

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:40 p.m. CST

    "Ah you make me laugh "

    by DocPazuzu

    Likewise, especially since I can't for the life of me see how that constitutes a "conspiracy."

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:41 p.m. CST

    So now we know the USA used CHEM Weapons in Fallujah

    by MinasTirithII

    After the liars said they didn't. Another moral victory for AmeriKKKa.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:42 p.m. CST

    "In fact, I don't doubt that Bush himself lacked the imagina

    by oisin5199

    Bush might not have, but the writers of the X-Files spinoff, 'Lone Gunmen' did (love the conspiracy theory connection). Their oft cited episode (2000, I think) included planes that were programmed to fly into the WTC but were averted at the last minute by our hacker genius heroes. I think it's funny that the writers of a second rate cancelled Fox show imagined it, but the administration couldn't. And I second 'Rescue Me' for best handling of post 9/11. Allegorically, I think the new Battlestar Galactica is the best post 9/11 approach to scifi. On a different note, I wonder what we're 'never forget'ing, or the usefulnes s of that phrase. If it's about never forgetting the many people who died and their lives and stories, I'm all for it. But if it's never forgetting for the sake of constantly invoking it for political gains, or for unfounded racism and religious hatred against Muslims, or just generally living in fear because the administration tells us to, I'm all for forgetting.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:42 p.m. CST

    Bush hated everywhere

    by MinasTirithII

    BUSAN, South Korea (AFP) - The huge security operation thrown up around an Asia-Pacific summit faced its first test -- from a handful of housewives angry at US President George W. Bush. Four middle-aged women, who unfurled banners and shouted slogans, were hauled away by some of the 300 riot police deployed in front of the Westin Chosun Hotel, following Bush's arrival earlier Wednesday. "Bush get out of South Korea," said one of the half-dozen women who turned up to protest outside the hotel.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:45 p.m. CST

    Conspiracy to Hide Torture

    by MinasTirithII

    Why does Bush and Co. create conpsiracies to hide torture? Not very moral.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:46 p.m. CST

    Cheney Conspiracy of Travel

    by MinasTirithII

    WASHINGTON, November 16, 2005

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:48 p.m. CST

    "attempting to understand"...

    by DocPazuzu in my case limited to the opinion that there's something of interest to be learned from the psychology of truly deranged individuals who will believe anything and everything that presents an alternative view of history, politics, economics, and every other aspect of life on Earth than what are held as common truths. In no way, shape or form do I consider the inanities of said loons themselves to be relevant to reality or our understanding of it.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:49 p.m. CST

    I love the Airplane under Govt Control Conspiracy

    by MinasTirithII

    Condi Rice, the Moron: "We never thought of anything like that." = Lying Bitch.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:49 p.m. CST

    ummm the only Vietnam movie to come out during the war

    by luckylindy

    was the Green Berets which was a truly terrible movie to say the least. Just a WW2 movie in a "vietnam" setting. Pine trees in vietnam? hahaha

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:50 p.m. CST

    Conspiracy of Water

    by MinasTirithII

    Katherine Harris, then Florida's secretary of state

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:52 p.m. CST

    Childe ( and Minas and Frodos too )

    by Blue_Demon

    Childe Roland, if the point of your post was not that you explained our "complete and utter lack of foresight" then yeah, I did miss it. But if it was, then I agreed with you when I said "we were caught with our pants down." But you missed that entirely. Minas, the attacks on the President ( utter lies actually ) do send the wrong signal to our troops. Bush did not maniuplate a thing ( I mean, he's a moron, no? ) The democrats who voted for the war had access to the same intel that Bush did ( I'm looking at you John Edwards, nice try. ) Frodos...*sigh* Well, according to you, Bush can't do a thing right. So who then is responsible for keeping the terrorists from U.S. soil? John Kerry? Michael Moore? Y'know...Bush can't do anything to please you lefties. Hell...if he'd been given supernatural powers by God and had pushed back the hurricanes, you jokers would have given him shit for mixing religion with politics. Why do I bother?

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:52 p.m. CST

    9-11 Conspiracy

    by MinasTirithII

    Who still buys into Bush's Conspiracy that it was Al QAIDA

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:53 p.m. CST

    you guys are weird

    by luckylindy

    i thought this was a movie site...not a coocoo factory

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:55 p.m. CST

    237 Lies about Iraq to get us into war

    by MinasTirithII

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:56 p.m. CST

    silly demon

    by luckylindy

    god is for kids

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:56 p.m. CST

    Aw c'mon lucky...

    by Blue_Demon

    Haven't you ever been in a conversation with a bunch of guys where somebody said something that made you hit the brakes and say, "Huh??!" This site is like that. ;)

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Conspiracy Theory to Link TaliBan and Al Qaida

    by MinasTirithII

    Official: Al-Qaida Boosts Afghan Activity KABUL, Afghanistan - Osama bin Laden

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:58 p.m. CST

    yeah thats happened

    by luckylindy

    but then the guy driving behind crashed into us and killed that guy who said something off...well he got what he asked for i guess

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 12:59 p.m. CST

    C-Section Conspiracy

    by MinasTirithII

    ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- The rate of Caesarean sections in the U.S. has climbed to an all-time high, despite efforts by public health authorities to bring down the number of such deliveries, the government said Tuesday. Nearly 1.2 million C-sections were performed in 2004, accounting for 29.1 percent of all births that year, the National Center for Health Statistics reported. That is up from 27.5 percent in 2003 and 20.7 in 1996. The increase is attributed to fears of malpractice lawsuits if a vaginal delivery goes wrong, the preferences of mothers and physicians, and the risks of attempting vaginal births after Caesareans.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1 p.m. CST


    by DocPazuzu

    I seem to recall you stating in the last talkback that you think "man of God", Saddam Hussein, should be released.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:04 p.m. CST

    Rumsfeld starts Conspiracy to hide use of Lions

    by MinasTirithII

    WASHINGTON - Two Iraqi businessmen, who were imprisoned by U.S. forces in Iraq, claimed Monday that American soldiers threw them into a cage of lions in a Baghdad palace, as part of a terrifying interrogation in 2003.--- The Rumsfled Conspiracy --- WASHINGTON (AFP) - US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said an allegation by a former Iraqi detainee that US troops threatened to put him in a cage with a lion was "farfetched."

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:05 p.m. CST

    Saddam should be released

    by MinasTirithII

    If you are going to kill innocent people and bomb thier homes and torture them, at least get somebody who knows what they are doing. Now shut it Doc.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:06 p.m. CST

    keep it up doc...egg him on

    by luckylindy

    im starting to eerily enjoy this

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:08 p.m. CST

    Bush's Conspiracy of Lies to the USA People

    by MinasTirithII

    "The Bush administration was also alone in making the absurd claim that Iraq was in league with Al Qaeda and somehow connected to the 9/11 terrorist attacks. That was based on two false tales. One was the supposed trip to Prague by Mohamed Atta, a report that was disputed before the war and came from an unreliable drunk. The other was that Iraq trained Qaeda members in the use of chemical and biological weapons. Before the war, the Defense Intelligence Agency concluded that this was a deliberate fabrication by an informer." (Editorial, "Decoding Mr. Bush's Denials," The New York Times, 11/15/05)

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:09 p.m. CST

    I have a Royal family??

    by BendersShinyAss

    Since when? And whats the deal with being to scared to consider the moon landing may have been faked? there's a lot of good speculation that it was. and there's also video of the Apollo 11 crew 'faking' footage while they were in orbit. They made the earth look like it was further away than it actually was - it was a trick created by holding the camera at the opposite end of the capsule, pointed at the window with the iris turned down. Thius does not prove the moon landing was faked. But it does prove that part of the moon landing was faked. Why? Check it out Not saying I believe the moon landings were faked. I'm just saying, why is it so hard to believe they were? I also just wanted to say DocPazuzu, everything you said about the hard standing right or left. You call yourself a moderate, But I'd have to call you a hard standing Moderate. And is Harry really ChickenGeorgeVII?

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:09 p.m. CST

    "Now shut it Doc."

    by DocPazuzu

    I also recall you saying you'd "gladly" put me to death in your brave new world, MinusPenith.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:11 p.m. CST

    Bush started a Conspiracy Theory

    by MinasTirithII

    On the following items: Social Security, Avian Flu, Iraq, Oil, Bin Laden, Katrina(Brownie you are doing a heck of a job), No Child Left Behind, Environment, 9-11 etc etc. It's no wonder his conspiracy world is falling apart.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:16 p.m. CST

    Minus how do I sign up to become a member of this beautiful Utop

    by seppukudkurosawa

    If the only change from this world is that it's sans Pazuzu then fuck me gently with a chain-saw, consider me a Tirithian.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Conspiracy to keep USA Troops from another Torture scandal

    by MinasTirithII

    The United States Government says it does not believe American soldiers were involved in the Iraqi prison where more than 170 detainees were found starving and mistreated. -------- US troops took control of an Interior Ministry building in Baghdad on the weekend and found the traumatised prisoners inside. --------- Investigations into the abuse have started, but US State Department spokesman Adam Ereli says the prison was controlled by Iraqi forces not Americans. --------- "There's no issue of American involvement in this. Were there to be, then obviously our procedures and regulations would apply," he said. -------- How is this a conspiracy, cause the Govt said 'believed'.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Christ! Waterboy meets Jihad Meets Jerry Lewis meets 911

    by Hate_Speech

    oh boy.. can't wait..

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:18 p.m. CST

    Pazuzu is a non-factor

    by MinasTirithII

    You give the moron way too much credit on his ever diminishing returns.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:21 p.m. CST

    Asses of Evil

    by MinasTirithII

    Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld - you are either against them completely, or you are a sheeple moron.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:22 p.m. CST

    No, Blue_Demon...

    by Childe Roland

    ...I noticed that you had pulled one concept from my post (which you should really go back and re-read for comprehension and retention this time) and set it up as a position you could agree with. I will summarize the actual point(s) of my post succinctly here for you and let you re-examine your position of "agreement." I said that the likelihood we were actually caught with our pants down was slim and that, if this was indeed the case, it would be inexcusable (I'd almost prefer to believe the ineptitude or conspiracy theories). I also condemned the Bush administration for capitalizing on the tragedy after the fact, regardless of how or why it happened. Your post responding to mine indicates that I believe we were caught completely unawares and that we should be crediting the Bush administration for the lack of terror attacks on U.S. soil since 9-11. Both are completely unfounded positions., comprehend THEN respond. You'll come off looking a little brighter.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:25 p.m. CST

    Conspiracy to hide USA use of Chem Weapons falling apart

    by MinasTirithII An Iraqi human rights team has gone to the city of Falluja to investigate the use of white phosphorus as a weapon by US forces, a minister has told the BBC. Acting Human Rights Minister Narmin Uthman said her staff would examine the possible effects on civilians. The US has now admitted using white phosphorus as a weapon in Falluja last year, after earlier denying it. === Maybe the Fucks running this country 'misspoke'.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:28 p.m. CST

    Rumsfeld Conspiracy to blame Iraq Residents

    by MinasTirithII

    Mr Rumsfeld also said that terrorist are trained to lie about their treatment while in custody. "They do it consistently and it always works," he said. ---- This Bush Admin comes up with some great Conspiracy Theories, the nut case Chritian morons.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:33 p.m. CST

    "a hard standing Moderate."

    by DocPazuzu

    BendersShinyAss, you seem to be putting the emphasis on the words "hard standing" as if the rigorousness with which we cling to our beliefs is enough to put us all in the same boat. It doesn't work that way, though. Few people would say that a person "dedicated" to the principles of liberal democracy is in no way different than one who is "dedicated" to national socialism. What's important is WHAT the values are we cling to, not if we're clinging to them as hard as our opponents are clinging to theirs.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:35 p.m. CST

    WTC type attacks were thought of long before 911

    by eclipsedman

    Tom Clancy thought of it. Hell he even wrote about the same thing happening to the White House and the President was killed in the book. Cant think of what book it was off hand though.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:37 p.m. CST

    9-11 Only Repugs were clueless

    by MinasTirithII

    Or that's more likely their conspiracy drill, to play dumb, we never thought of that etc etc. Morons indeed. Thus why Bush is responsible more so than anyone for 9-11. they never imagined it.....

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:48 p.m. CST

    Bush Was Right Conspiracy Song

    by MinasTirithII

    Freedom in Afghanistan, say goodbye Taliban ------- Free elections in Iraq, Saddam Hussein locked up ----- Osama

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 1:51 p.m. CST

    "The democrats who voted for the war had access to the same inte

    by oisin5199

    I've heard this Republican talking point over and over again, but just because it's repeated so often, doesn't mean it's true. I mean, really, how the hell do we know? Who's to say there wasn't intelligence contradicting what the cited intelligence said (and the Valerie Plame case certainly indicates this possibility) that was simply repressed and not shown to Congress?

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 2:01 p.m. CST

    No the Dems did not have the same Intel

    by MinasTirithII

    that's completely false, stop spreading your conspiracy tales

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 2:01 p.m. CST

    The God Conspiracy

    by MinasTirithII

    God is so Complex that somebody must have created him.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 2:15 p.m. CST

    i wanna see if u guys know where this is from:

    by the_man_from_Rio


  • Nov. 16, 2005, 2:33 p.m. CST

    Pubes = Genesis

    by MinasTirithII

    A few chapters in I guess.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 2:34 p.m. CST


    by FrodosBlueBalls

    What makes you believe that Bush has done anything to prevent attacks?? How many attacks were there pre 9/11?? Aside from Timothy McVeigh I can only think of the previous WTC bombing. The govt has you fooled into thinking we are in a constant state of attack with this bullshit color coded alert system. Uh oh we're on RED!!! Wait now we're on Orange...phew...oh wait...we're back on RED again so we must be getting attacked...but wait, nothing happened, which must mean that Bush is protecting us. You my good man are a tool of the Republican machine. It's people like you that want to put GWB's face on the nickel. The man is a bumbling twit and has no place in the office. You people laud him for his ability to unite the nation after 9/11, but who couldn't. The man is the worst public speaker I have ever seen. Fault Clinton all you want, but that man could talk. I would've loved to seen how he would've handled 9/11.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 2:35 p.m. CST

    Why don't you ask Bill O'Reilly for the truth?

    by Floyd_Dylan

    Or Michael Moore for his version of the truth?

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Bill Orielly wants San Fran to get hit

    by MinasTirithII

    Cause San Fran doesn't want stupid Amry Recruits in their schools. Bill Orielly is a Terrorist Sympathizer, google Terrorist Sympathizer for further proof.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 3:18 p.m. CST

    Art? Film? Familiar words?

    by MrWilkey

    Since I do believe there are actual appreciators of film amongst the assorted nuts that inhabit the land of msg boards, I thought I would post the following. Those who seek entertainment at best, distractions between food and mindless chatter at worst, won't be affected ultimately by a 9/11 movie. They will assemble on one side or the other of an opinion poll run in everything from Entertainment Weekly to PLayboy to the NY Post. Some will have more hot air to expend than others. Some of us will have enough intellect to simply expect filmmakers and other artists to have something to say or contribute and enough skill and talent to not insult our intelligence. We will judge the merit of their work based on this and be able to separate the abstract entity from the real event that we unfortunately had to be witness to. Yes, for all of us, there may very well be a correlation between the potential emotional affects of such a film and the lingering emotional affects of 9/11. But as we know, the "real world" is a big mess of repression and confusion when it comes to emotions while art, at its best, can shed some light or express what is difficult for the rest of us to express. In the end, art is not immune to the perception and criticism of those who wish to be entertained or simply be distracted from work and the effects of other media. So, the lines will still form on either side of the watercooler. And you guys will be on to the next ball of yarn.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 3:26 p.m. CST

    Whoa, it's true, google 'terrorist sympathizer' and

    by RaulMonkey

    I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the collection of short films, 11'09''01 - SEPTEMBER 11TH Eleven films all eleven minutes, nine seconds and one frame long. Some really cool and some a little more lame. Definitely worth check out though:

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 3:27 p.m. CST

    checking :|

    by RaulMonkey

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 3:30 p.m. CST

    Ah, check it out re: Bill O'Reilly being a terrorist sympath

    by RaulMonkey

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4 p.m. CST

    Childe Roland, mea culpa.

    by Blue_Demon

    When you're right, you're right. I skimmed your post and as a result, look like a fool. I apologize. I realize I don't agree with your take. Not to be antagonistic, but I have some questions. "You're telling me that not one of them ever saw Dino De Laurentis' King Kong and wondered what might happen if a plane hit one of the towers?" I agree with you there. Surely there are people in the government who come up with some scenarios the public might call "out there." If I'm not mistaken, a plane crashed into the Empire State Building years ago. Now, these things being possible, they were highly improbable. No one would have thought that box cutters could have been used as a weapon. Hell...I remember years ago flying with a pocket knife on me. We were trained to look for guns, trained to look at suspicious packages. So the fact that somebody got through is not surprising. Is it iexcusable? No. People WILL get through. Somewhere, sometime. What would be inexcusable is Bush and Co. planning or knowingly allowing the attacks. That's downright evil and if true, they all deserve the death penalty. No, I don't believe they had a hand in it. Does that absolve them of responsibility? Depends on your point of view. Yes, security could have been tighter. But if it had, people would have been bitching left and right. We'd hear the familiar refrain of "Racial profiling! Racial profiling!" So there is a constant tug of war in this country between security and freedoms. Administration as opportunists: Hmm. Anything is possible. But the question remains for me: What should have been done after the attacks? Surely going into Afghanistan was the correct thing to do. The Taliban government backed Al-Quaeda. Iraq? Saddam paid thousands to the families of suicide bombers who attacked American targets...that says to me the man was exporting terrorism. Not to mention the fact that he would not allow U.N. inspectors into his country. Why not? That STILL remains a big question. If he had no WMDs, why play like he did? So I don't call this opportunistic. I call it the next step. Pre-emptive strike. The "in-poor-taste exploitation" has removed a murderous dictator and brought the promise of democracy to a region of the globe that has never seen it. In fact, the only in-poor-taste exploitation of this whole thing is Democrats who voted FOR the war based on the same ( yes guys, SAME ) intelligence Bush had and are now re-writing history to avoid being lumped with Republicans in a war that is unpopular. We all wanted it, now it's being touted in the media as "bad" and you want to make sure ( Democratic leaders I mean ) that you distance yourselves from it come election time. Opportunistic bastards one and all. Not to mention fair weather friends.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:27 p.m. CST

    The 9/11 Conspiracy Is A Joke

    by pockybot

    I think anyone who believes the 9/11 conspiracy is a retard...I mean seriously: That a sickly guy in a cave half a world away perfectly thwarted the world's mightiest super power with no help? That fires brought down for the first time in American history 3 tall skyscrapers? That even tho Osama and al Qaeda were trained by CIA and were even being met by and followed by CIA, the government had no foreknowlege of 9/11. That the neocons had nothing to gain from 9/11. I mean, it's totally absurd! Wake up folks and smell the coverup. Here's the funny thing...when the 9/11 coverup does unfold in the mainstream press, what are all the people who cried "tinfoil hat!" going to say?

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:31 p.m. CST

    Why do people insist on pushing the American govt on other count

    by FrodosBlueBalls

    What if Iraq DIDN'T want a democracy? What if it's really none of our business to change their govt? That shit pisses me off. What if someday China comes and attacks us and forces us all into Communism b/c the Chinese love Communism. If I wanted to be a fuckin commie I would move to China. Just like if those people wanted a Democracy, they would've left the country like some people I know did.


  • Nov. 16, 2005, 4:54 p.m. CST


    by Blue_Demon

    If Iraq didn't want a democracy they would not have defied death threats from Zarqawi to vote. They would not have proudly held up their purple fingers for the cameras. I think, once people get a taste of democracy, they usually want a little more. But hey, that's just me. I'm crazy enough to want a free society instead of living under a murdering tyrant with psychotic sons who kill and rape left and right. Call me crazy.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 5:23 p.m. CST

    S'okay, Blue_Demon...

    by Childe Roland

    ...folks on this site tend to skim and take things out of context a lot. I'm just a picky prick about keeping the record straight. I know that there are many who would agree with you about going into Afghanistan being the right thing to do. A fair number did at the time, regardless of the lack of compelling evidence connecting that nation's government to the attack. Bush certainly got the support he wanted for the invasion just by appealing to emotion and pointing at who that nation's "friends" had been. But the truth is we still don't know who orchestrated the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Bin Laden was tried in the court of public opinion (and why wouldn't he want to take credit for something that struck such terror into the hearts of Americans if he really hates our way of life so much, whether he did it or not? Glory hounds make false confessions all the time). Afghanistan's history with an extremist sect (which is an offshoot of an extremist sect the U.S. backed, trained and funded in the 80s) made it a convenient proxy target once the administration had picked an untouchable primary villain (weird how no one can seem to lay their hands on Bin Laden, isn't it?). Oddly enough, when explaining why the attack was necessary, Bush didn't mention the memos that circulated within his administration concerning the necessity of a U.S.-friendly government in Afghanistan to the proposed establishment of a Mid-East oil pipeline. There are actually a number of other plausible political and economic reasons that the U.S. might have wanted to invade Afghanistan, many of which would have made more sense to me, personally, than the "bloody drunk guy staggering around in the bar and looking for someone - anyone - to hit back" rationale that was applied. But I'm not the majority of Americans. As for Iraq, there was nothing even remotely pre-emptive about that invasion. Bush and his administration made no secret of wanting to go in there and finish what Bush Sr. had started. He said as much well before 9-11. I'll repeat, there has been no credible, concrete evidence linking either Afghanistan or Iraq to the 9-11 attacks. And to continue positioning those invasions as justified responses or pre-emptive strikes against the same aggressor is really just an exercise in propaganda. But I have to admit that the idea of securing a better global strategic/economic position in the region wouldn't be as compelling as the "enduring fight for freedom" after the first few thousand body bags came home from Iraq. Whatever gets you through the night, I s'pose.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 5:37 p.m. CST

    Walker Texas Ranger gave my family and I closure with their deft

    by Mel Garga

    Do any of you assholes even vote? I didn't think so...but your welcome to keep complaining. Sure, this country is rotting from the inside out but we don't smell it because we're distracted by the stench of french fries and Paris Hilton's new perfume. But let's put things in a positive light. We have Disney theme parks on both coasts. This is a happenin' place. Now go jam your Play Station up your ass.....

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 5:39 p.m. CST

    To Ringbearer, regarding Your 9/11 Theory

    by pockybot

    9/11 Certainly was not fake. There really were muslim extremists flying planes into three buildings that day. You say "Why can't we believe they didn't care to step up security because they actually hoped for some small scale terrorist attack that they could use as an excuse" So wait...your saying the US government let it happen? Well OF COURSE they let it happen, that's what I have been saying. The CIA knew about the 9/11 al Qaeda meeting in the phillipines, they were following Atta and the hijackers, Atta was funded by the Pakistani ISI, and NORAD stood down that day. I mean it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure it out. Knew it would happen and allowed it, partially orchestrated it...whatever, point is we have some seriously corrupt crooks in the top rungs of the white house.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 5:41 p.m. CST

    Childe Roland

    by DocPazuzu

    It would appear that I, too, spoke much too soon. While I do agree with a number of your points, I can't say the same regarding your seeming ambivalence about the guilt of Bin Laden. I think that one of the drawbacks of being the sole superpower in the world is that no matter what conflict it's involved in, it will always be accused of a number of different hidden objectives and tenuous/possible/plausible/probable machinations geared towards the singleminded consolidation of that power no matter what the cost. While a good deal of critical thinking is indeed essential and imperative, it also applies in the opposite direction. There is a tendency on both sides to ignore the principle of Occam's razor and reach for the most far-fetched of explanations simply because one can. This being the Information Age, one doesn't only get an abundance of earnest alternative views to the mainstream one, but also a number of sinister "truths" with less of an interest in the facts and every interest in promoting a less than wholesome political ideology. The lines have blurred and it's becoming increasingly difficult for novices to distinguish between opposing yet sensible democratic views and sheer propaganda geared towards the dissolving of truth for totalitarian ideological gain.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 6:13 p.m. CST

    no interest in seeing any 9/11 film

    by ashhole

    i saw more than enough on CNN that morning. i don't think it's too soon, i just find the whole idea distasteful. i do not use the word tragedy carelessly, as it is one of the most misused words in the english language. the true definition of a tragedy in the original greek sense is a severe loss in which the victim's own pride or flaws cause the outcome. there is no better summation of that day in my mind. it was a truly tragic event that cannot be lent more gravity by a film, nor can a film lighten the load of our losses and memories. i saw every awful truth episode and every michael moore film until fahrenheit. i still haven't seen it, not because i disagree with his stances, but because i don't think this should be in a film. a film is ultimately one point of view, and these issues should be examined in conversation and debate to give proper perspective.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 6:39 p.m. CST

    The Bush Foreign Policy is Israel's

    by rivercb

    I hope that they end the film on an optimistic note. They could take a cue from Benjamin Netanyahu.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 7:20 p.m. CST

    I wonder, will Adam Sandler be doing his Happy Gilmore or Water

    by Orbots Commander

    Maybe Sandler will do a sing along 9/11 song, like his Chanukah and Thanksgiving tunes.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 7:21 p.m. CST

    "I know for many it is still too soon for Hollywood to make a mo

    by quadrupletree

    let alone two....

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 8:09 p.m. CST

    answer to...pubes...

    by the_man_from_Rio


  • Nov. 16, 2005, 10:29 p.m. CST

    just for the record ...

    by Lou C.

    this film is NOT actually about the events of Sept. 11. Rather, it's about a man (Sandler) who loses his family in the attacks. He bumps into his old roommate (Cheadle), who is determined to help his friend move on with his life. A ... uh ... other site had a little more information. Now, while i'm wary of any flick that plans on showing the attacks at this point in time, I'm certainly all for films that deal with people's emotions and lives and how they are affected by those events. Whether Binder is the guy to do it ... well, that's another argument.

  • Nov. 16, 2005, 11:49 p.m. CST

    MSNBC Front Page: Questioning 9/11

    by pockybot

    Seriously, hot damn another score for the 9/11 Truth Movement:

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 12:59 a.m. CST

    Wait? Harry is Chicken George? Now that is a conspiracy worthy o

    by Alonzo Mosely

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 1:01 a.m. CST

    Oh, and CBS wanted to do a romantic sitcom about 9/11 about a mo

    by Alonzo Mosely

    They said it would be 'tasteful', but strangely research showed that the average joe thought they were retarded showbiz scumbags who needed to die, so the idea was shelved...

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 1:20 a.m. CST

    Shut the F Up, All Y'alls!

    by mechashiva

    Let me try to deal with everyone at once. To the guy who thinks Iraqis don't want democracy: Saddam was democraticall elected thirty years ago. Then he had half of parliament assassinated (yes, literally) and took over the government. Iraq had a democracy, until Saddam stole it away. To the Dale Gribble clones: if the neocons engineered 9/11 for their own selfish gains, then why didn't they sit back and enjoy eight years of domestic prosperity, rather than start an unwinable war in Iraq? To the emotionally unstable nut-jobs who can't deal with a 9/11 film: There are novels about 9//11, which you'd know if you read. There are plays about 9/11, which you'd know if you went to the theater. And yet we don't lie in bed all day crying, unable to deal with the constant reminders of our national tragedy. To everyone who's convinced this film (or Oliver Stones) will be too liberal, too conservative, or generally not present your own personal version of the truth: Have you read the fucking script? Have you even read a report on the script? Do you know what Mike Binder's politics are, or what he thinks about 9/11? Do you assume that everyone out there is as myopic as you are, and can't make a movie that transcends their own personal opinions? Just because you'd make a movie that advances your theory that Bill O'Reilly and Osama bin Laden are actually the same person doesn't mean these people will, so how 'bout you wait until you know what the hell this movie's about before you spew shit about it on the God-forsaken message board. Fucking A.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 4:36 a.m. CST


    by Ribbons

    I totally agree with you as far as the name 'Wave O'er Me' goes. With the outdated way of saying o'er and everything? Manipulative, exploitative crap. I think the reason people are tempted to say too soon is because they're also tempted to call bullshit on the intentions of the people behind the curtains. In theory, an interesting and respectful 9-11 can be made now, but I have to wonder whether or not some of the muckety mucks funding these projects would really lose sleep if the families of victims (or anyone else in the general public) were disturbed by what they saw.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 4:37 a.m. CST


    by Ribbons

    1) Where have you been? and 2) Are you effing serious? Why are people such assholes?

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 4:45 a.m. CST


    by Alonzo Mosely

    1) Around and 2) Absolutely serious. It may have been one of the other networks, not CBS and it might have been a mini-series rather than a sit-com, but I am fairly sure I am right about the CBS sit-com part, and absolutely sure about the essential part. They really did get pitched the idea of a recent widow of 9/11 and a recent widower of 9/11 becoming romanticaly involved with each other, as they, and by extension, America, got through the tragedy with the help of a laugh track and probably some cute semi-orphan kids... CBS actually wanted to run with it, but focus groups, much to their amazement, told them people would be just as happy if they had replaced Dave with Bin Laden.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 4:57 a.m. CST

    Yep it was a CBS sitcom... Here from one moth and one day after

    by Alonzo Mosely

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 5:06 a.m. CST


    by Ribbons If they actually thought a sitcom about 9/11 would be relevant or poignant, I'd like to know what the hell they were thinking at the time. Or where they get their drugs. This sentence in particular just sounds all kinds of wrong: [Les Moonves] is considering green-lighting a romantic comedy about two people brought together after their spouses are killed in the collapse of [the Twin Towers].

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 9:51 a.m. CST

    "they should wait till the Muslims calm down"

    by UltimaRex

    And when would that be?

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 10 a.m. CST

    "You can DO it!"

    by RaylanGivens

    Can't wait to see how Rob Schneider cameos in this, like all of Sandler's "films." I think it will be highly inappropriate.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 10:24 a.m. CST

    the high demand for terrorist-themed flicks like Die Hard and T

    by oisin5199

    from that article. Wow - goes to show that immediately after 9/11 people wanted to see terrorist-themed exploitation movies where We win. I tend to agree with mechashiva, at least as far as the movies go. I think people need to get used to the fact that this event is part of our consciousness and will continue to be portrayed in various media and in various lights. However, maybe the difference between books/plays and movies is the mass marketing aspect, where making a buck is more of a factor - though Fahrenheit 911 was blatantly this and with a specific political aim. That seems more reprehensible than a sensitive drama. Never had any interest in seeing it, because I already knew how I was voting. So I don't think it's too soon for good 9/11 stories.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 10:30 a.m. CST

    Fuck all this Bullshit - HERE'S THE SUPERMAN TRAILER!!!!!!!!

    by BendersShinyAss

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 11:51 a.m. CST

    You make some very valid and cogent points, as usual, Doc P...

    by Childe Roland

    ...but I hope you understand that by illuminating the possibile underlying motives and scenarios (and, by possible, I mean the ones I have been unable to rule out as of yet given the evidence available), I merely seek to refine the thinking processes of those who seem to have prematurely made up their minds. It certainly remains a possibility that Bin Laden did not, in fact, orchestrate the attacks. There is no concrete evidence aside from his claim of responsibility (even when someone confesses to a murder, the U.S. criminal justice system insists that the suspect explain how he or she did it so that the confession can be compared to the evidence and its validity determined). It also certainly remains possible that the current administration allowed, encouraged or participated in the attacks (again, there hasn't been enough revealed for me to completely rule out these possibilities). All the evidence may never come in. We may never know the who or the how. We certainly don't now and to pretend we do is really pretty naive. What we do know is that certain improprieties on the part of key governmental officials have already been alleged concerning the acquisition, dissemination and crtiticism of intelligence that led us to war with Iraq. These allegations were serious enough and substantiated enough to necessitate indictments. And that fact alone should be enough to warrant further inquiryinto what else the administration may have lied about. I'm not forwarding any particular theory of what happened (the memo concerning the plausibility of a Middle-Eastern oil pipeline does exist...whether it played any part in our decision to go to war is really something only the administration knows - they've already said it did not, but how trusting should we be now?). I'm merely suggesting that we don't have all the facts yet and, given the facts we do have, we can't rule out much except the possibility that Bush piloted one of the hijacked planes himself. I don't see how reserving judgment until the facts are in can be perceived as radical (much less unpatriotic, as certain governmental officals have characterized a questioning attitude).

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 12:30 p.m. CST

    To Be Truly Great, Art MUST Deal With the Major Events of Its Da

    by Chief Redcock

    FACT. Great art is about more than hip dialogue, pretty cinematography, and breasts... films are supposed to tell us about the world around us, which means addressing major events like 9/11. to recommend that filmmakers like stone et al bury their head in the sand about it is to consign the medium of film to artistic oblivion... IT CANNOT BE DONE. hate the tragedy, but don't villify artists who want to express their reactions to it... silencing people is what causes some people to fly airplanes into buildings to express themselves. better to make a movie, i think. and GoatZinger raises a great point... these issues have been widely discussed in the news and in print. books have been published, several films have ALREADY BEEN MADE. why all the comotion? is it something about stone specifically? if so, what exactly? i think most people who complain are afraid of his talent, afraid that he'll actually put forth a well-filmed, high profile argument against this administration's treatment of a sensitive issue. it's too soon... come on. don't shut your ears to the truth, people... someone's gotta say it. i trust stone a lot more than i trust dubya. or maybe these people are just fanboys who love whining and complaining.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 1:58 p.m. CST

    Crossing the Talkback Streams. Again.

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    Wow. Another Talkback about 9-11??? And look, all my favorite players are here: Doc Paz, Minas TwitII, Ringodingo9, Wnanahara?, Blue Demon, SepukudK., Alex, pockybot. Geez guys, we've got to stop meeting like this. You know it will only end in total protonic reversal...

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 2:07 p.m. CST

    blah blah blah blah

    by lopan

    [puts hands over ears] LA LA LA I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG. arguing politics on the frickin AICN message boards is like shouting at a wall. who is actually going to convince anyone else here to see it their way? YAWN

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 4:27 p.m. CST

    Aw boo hoo drknight...

    by Cameron1

    you fucking baby. And hey wishing violence on those who disagree with you. Well done, you and terrorists are exactly the same. Bravo on being part of the problem.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 4:49 p.m. CST

    Holographic projections

    by TheSumOfGod

    Those airplanes never really crashed. A MISSILE hit the Pentagon, the debris field found in Pennsylvania was PLANTED, and pre-set explosives brought down the Twin Towers. What people on TV and in the streets saw were nothing more than hi-tech holographic projections. You read it here first.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 6:41 p.m. CST

    actually, the most popular (sorry) 'post 9/11' film was.

    by ectocriminal

    independence day, with will smith and bill pullman. it was running nonstop of cable, available on ppv, and out of all the video stores when i went in (i'm in there all the time, lonely dime store skank that i am).

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 6:44 p.m. CST

    wow, thesumofgod

    by ectocriminal

    i hope that was a joke. or that you're twelve. or legally retarded. otherwise there's just no excuse for your post. none at all.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 7:02 p.m. CST

    wow, ectocriminal

    by TheSumOfGod

    Way to have an open mind. I guess you buy that Magic Bullet Theory bullshit the goverment has been pimping since JFK got his head blown off as well.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 7:30 p.m. CST

    I don't know what's more frightening

    by zigster

    ..that ass ingots like Pockybot really believe the US govt secretly planned to run planes into NYC ("remember boys, only kill 3,000!") or that Oliver Stone should be allowed to direct this movie.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 7:35 p.m. CST

    God you Americans are do f***ing naive.

    by TheSumOfGod

    People in Canada, in France, practically everywhere else in the world know that the American government knows a hell of a lot more about 9/11 than it is willing to admit, that it was probably even directly involved in the attacks, but you people have been so mentally conditionned into being perfect little sheep that you swallow the official version of the story without questionning. I almost pity you.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 7:45 p.m. CST

    Oh well if the French believe it

    by zigster

    it must be true.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 9:10 p.m. CST


    by mechashiva

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 9:12 p.m. CST


    by ectocriminal

    i have a pretty open mind. i believe in life on other planets. i'd love a mcaine/h. clinton ticket during the next election to give my govt some solidarity between parties, or root for obama if he wants to run. however, imo, your post was blatantly ridiculous. they must've been great fucking holograms for thousands of people not to have seen the slightest discrepency. also, if you're a fan of the magic bullet, holograms projected from where? and of what exactly? and how did they cover up the missles to the eyes of the new yorkers as holograms are traditionally translucent? if i, possessing my below average reasoning skills and intellect (self-admitted), can see through your theory, then what happens when people with brains in their heads see it? i guess they laugh even harder than i do, i dunno. to surmise, i'm open minded, but i close my mind off to blatant stupidity.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 9:17 p.m. CST


    by mechashiva

    Why are Canada and France presented as examples for us to follow. In Canada you can be put in jail for saying things the government deems hateful, and they still have a house of parliament selected by a representative of the Queen of ENGLAND! As for France, the world is watching the results of their progressive socialist economy as the enemployed non-whites riot in the streets. I love people who've never been to France who don't realize that it's even more segregated than America. At least we don't herd our immigrants into slums, raise the minimum wage so high it's not worth hiring anyone, and then let them rot. Jesus.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 9:23 p.m. CST

    RE: The Sum of God

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    Oh please sir. Dude, our country is built on superstition and paranoia. There ain't nothing that the supposedly enlightened people of Canada and France know that Americans haven't already thought of themselves. Trust me - our government is way too big. Someone would have squealed. Your self righteous indignation does you a dis-service. Pray tell, what country do you hail from? I'm sure we could all dissect your lovely homeland and tell you how brainwashed you are, too.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 9:27 p.m. CST

    Wow, I'm the Crackpot?

    by pockybot

    If you think everyone who believes the government is lying about 9/11, and there is a really have had your head in the sand. From the front page of yesterday's MSNBC, today's wallstreet journal; everyone from senators, leading phsyics experts, and even former FBI heads are all saying one thing: 9/11 Coverup. Yet sadly, even the Bush hating leftists are remaining mum on the issue. This is the biggest story of the millennium and it is just now that mainstream journalists are having the courage to write articles about it. When the 9/11 Coverup is exposed, fundamentally people will think differently about America and the government. At the very least folks, a few top officials knew damn well about 9/11 plans, and allowed it to happen for obvious reasons.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 9:27 p.m. CST

    sumofgod, here's what's wrong with the american governme

    by ectocriminal

    it's lead by big business, not a governing body. these people figured out how to make money by exploiting their own people and by policing weaker nations into policies/situations where the us can continue to use them as hubs for natural resources, including cheap labor and rabid consumers. now, gw is just an average guy who wants to do sup[ervise these goings-on, go home, and not be bothered. under normal circumstances he's just the average shitty boss who'd be hated office-wide. but he's a president who was put into power by a corrupt political agenda. therefore he's a war criminal, a liar, and a person who deserves to be castrated live in primetime by all the victims of 9-11, katrina, the 'decapitation strike' on iraq, and the assault on falluja combined. i'd say like ninety percent of people i talk to hate him, even people you'd consider 'closed minded', probably due to a lack of formal higher education or their other conservative beliefs. which points to you being the same ignorant bigot you claim all us dumb yanks to be. so go crawl back under your rock, bitch.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 9:44 p.m. CST

    Hillary Clinton for president

    by BendersShinyAss

    Wow. whoeve agrees with that HAS NEVER had a girlfriend. I'd rather satan himself than have a chick leading the free world. I'm having a joke, lay off. but there is some truth to it.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 10:07 p.m. CST

    RE: pockybot

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    Leading psychic experts??? Dude. And where did MSNBC have a 911 cover up story yesterday? I check many different news sources during the day and I didn't see that one. Unless, of course, you're talking about the doofus who spoke with Fucker Carlson who believes that the Twin Towers (especially WTC 7) collapsed due to a controlled demolition. Tell me, why does he fail to mention that the NY government ordered that demolition because the building was deemed to dangerous to remain standing? And it doesn't fit your conspiracy logic that mainstream journalism would be going public with these "revelations" before the "Bush hating leftists" would. Why do you continue to be a pimp for Alex Jones in these Talkbacks? Believing every word and theory that guy says makes you no different from the people who believe everything that comes out of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld's mouth.

  • Nov. 17, 2005, 10:11 p.m. CST

    Physics not Psychics. OK. Your misspelling threw me off.

    by Mr Nice Gaius

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 3:22 a.m. CST

    Holy shit...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...I wasn't going to post here any more, but after reading SumOfGod's hologram theory, I just had to say something. I thought the stupidest thing I'd heard a conspiratard say was when GingerTwit -- in an attempt to discredit the Apollo missions -- claimed that "recent scientific studies show that the Moon has six times the gravity of the Earth". But damn, SumOfGod, if you don't just take the cake. Do you actually know anything about holographic technology? Projection? Angles? Power requirements? How about the logistics required to not only make it appear solid on a bright, sunny morning in front of thousands of onlookers and TV cameras, but to also synchronize the projection so that it would "encase" the oncoming missiles, as well as engineer it so that the light reflecting off of its surface matched the solar conditions of that morning? SumOfGod, congratulations. You are now officially the biggest moron to ever post on AICN.

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 6:29 a.m. CST

    i've never had a girlfriend...

    by ectocriminal

    but i do own stock in ky, vacuum cleaners, and hand puppets. i was hoping for a mcaine as pres clinton as vp for some good old solidarity bewteen our political parties, just maybe so my mind could rest in the knowledge that the labeling of parties doesn't actually forever represent any set premeditated evil, that is, a 'bush administration-esque' political agenda being put into motion.

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 7:53 a.m. CST

    I Win!

    by buster00

    Just to recap for those still, uh, playing the game, DocPazuzu declared me the "winner" way up at the top of the board. I came back to collect my medal AND my face full of eggs AND turn you on once again to Thank you, and EXECUTE THE LIARS.

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 8:19 a.m. CST

    If I was Jesus I'd say that I love you all no matter what...

    by TheSumOfGod

    But since I'm NOT Jesus, I'll say fuck you all for being such blind fools who wouldn't know what the truth looks like even if it stared at you straight in the face. Ignorance is bliss, no shit.

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 9:57 a.m. CST

    RE: If I was Jesus...

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    Well, if the truth looks like a hologram projected in broad daylight, which fools the eyes of thousands in Manhattan (NY, USA, the world), and flies slower than a missle...I'd say it's time to leave this planet. Wouldn't you?

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 12:44 p.m. CST


    by TheSumOfGod

    Btw, I never said that there was a missile inside of the holographic airplane, I said that a missile hit the part of the Pentagon that was being renovated, as many eyewitnesses have reported. What would have caused the explosions when the holographic airplanes "crashed" into the Twin Towers would have been pre-set explosives or some sort of highly sophisticated particle weapon. And yes, I know Star Trek isn't real, but if you actually bother to do a little research, you'll find that the US military has been experimenting with particle weapons since the seventies.

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 1:07 p.m. CST

    "some sort of highly sophisticated particle weapon."

    by DocPazuzu

    Again, SumOfGod, do you in fact know ANYTHING about holographic technology or even particle weapons for that matter? I don't think you do because if you did, you would realize how monumentally stupid you sound. Please enlighten us, if you can, as to how it would be feasible to create the type of moving hologram required to fool thousands of people and hundreds of cameras from a variety of different angles. This, ladies and gentlemen, is a sad example of the results of a generation growing up sucking at the teat of The X Files and not having any caring adults around to explain the difference between fantasy and reality. SumOfGod, you are an imbecile of truly staggering proportions.

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 1:14 p.m. CST

    If anything, I hope that TheSumOfGod's posts...

    by Childe Roland to illustrate how truly reserved and impartial I've been in my attitude toward 9-11. Seriously, man...holograms? Particle weapons? Is Xenu telling you to type these things?

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 1:42 p.m. CST

    The Sum of God = Someone who was not there.

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    "a missle hit the part of the Pentagon that was being renovated" -- BULLSHIT. Wanna know why? Being from the DC area, I've got friends who saw the PLANE hitting the Pentagon. Folks who work there! Better yet, one of my best friend's father was one of the contractors working on the renovated side. He was walking out of one of their work trailers, about 100yds away from the building, when the plane hit. Do you even know anyone that works in the Pentagon, sir? This is the kind of speculative/urban myth nonsense that proves that you and other conspiratools are delusional. You don't have a thing that even comes close to proof in regards to this. So, why do you believe it?

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 1:48 p.m. CST

    It's taken Hollywood 50+ years to make a mainstream blockbus

    by Aston Lad why the rush to make a 9/11 film? Surely such a sensitive topic deserves a few more years so it can be filmed with some hindsight and perspective, as I hope Munich will turn out to be?

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 1:54 p.m. CST

    Mr. Nice Gaius

    by DocPazuzu

    SumOfGod doesn't need proof. He can dismiss you as a government stooge paid to frequent chatrooms and message boards with the sole purpose of spreading disinformation. It's like the most zealous of creationists who, when confronted with fossil evidence they can't explain away, will say that either God placed it in the ground to "test" our faith, or that the devil did in order to "confuse" us. You can't win with loonies like SumOfGod. They do sensible, critical-minded people a huge disservice by making all questioning of authority suspect by association.

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 2:14 p.m. CST

    Doc Paz

    by Mr Nice Gaius

    I agree with you, sir. And I hate to sound like a schill for our government...but it's not about our government. It's about the truth. The beginning truths...the simplest ones. And when we have people who want to turn these truths inside-out because of paranoia, then we as a people go nowhere. Unfortunately, thanks to current events, paranoia has done just that. I give you credit, Doc. I've seen you take on several TalkBackers single handedly and you've appeared to do it with a leveled approach. But it's your memory of past posts that fascinates're not keeping a "TalkBack Archive" are you?...

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 3:11 p.m. CST

    "you're not keeping a "TalkBack Archive" are you?"

    by DocPazuzu

    Hahaha, no. Cheers. It's just that some of the posts are so mind-bogglingly cretinous that I'm unable to expunge them from my mind. After a while, one begins to attach names to the worst offenders since they are so distinctive in their posts.

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 3:28 p.m. CST

    I hear you loud & clear, Doc. Cheers.

    by Mr Nice Gaius

  • Nov. 18, 2005, 4:30 p.m. CST

    by zigster

    I actually spent time in the car today worrying about people like SumofGod...future serial killer and probably Scientology Advisor. Ah hell, that's enough. Back to what's made this town great - the coke and wannabe starlet whores!