Oct. 7, 2005, 9:22 a.m. CST
GO SEE THIS
Oct. 7, 2005, 9:27 a.m. CST
Good and all as the movie was, you got to spend more time with the characters in the tv show - man, who the fuck cancelled this anyway?
Oct. 7, 2005, 9:28 a.m. CST
I love this movie.
Oct. 7, 2005, 9:29 a.m. CST
I want the TV show back...the movie was nice, but the tv show would be MUCH better ...give me a weekly show instead of once a year ANYDAY!!! Anyone know what the chances of that happening are now though? I'm guessing VERY slim to none.
Oct. 7, 2005, 9:32 a.m. CST
That's how I'm looking at the Serenity movie. I'm afraid a $10 opening weekend, even with a $45 million production cost, isn't going to be enough to warrant a sequel. I'm sure they'll make their money back, plus a little extra, but movie studios aren't really in the business of making a LITTLE money. It's sad that a giant turd like Fantastic Four does boffo business while a smart, thrilling, funny, moving action/sci-fi adventure can barely get past the $10 million mark. I'm just looking at is as the best season finale I could have ever hoped for. But I believe Firefly is now done.
Oct. 7, 2005, 9:36 a.m. CST
..what Sean38 said.
Oct. 7, 2005, 9:40 a.m. CST
Every non-fan I talked to about SERENITY was wondering "Do you need to watch FIREFLY before seeing it?" and the answer is obviously, NO you don't. You'll get more out of it if you do, but I went with three people who had zero clue about FIREFLY and they thought it more like classic STAR WARS than any of Lucas' ham-handed prequel flicks. If a SERENITY sequel isn't in the cards, how about a mini-series on Sci Fi similar to FARSCAPE: PEACEKEEPER WARS?
Oct. 7, 2005, 9:42 a.m. CST
Universal only made this movie after seeing how much money the DVD boxed set sold, so it stands to reason that they're planning to make the big bucks by selling the movie on DVD. I figure if the film makes $25 million domestically, $25 million internationally, and sells 4 million DVD's, (assuming $10 profit per disc,) it will probably get a sequel. That may be a big 'if' though.
Oct. 7, 2005, 9:48 a.m. CST
by Spaz Medicine
The movie tanked and now they will try anything. But there's good reason... THE MOVIE SUCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oct. 7, 2005, 9:51 a.m. CST
No kidding folks, pull up a chair while I share a slice of blasphemy pie. Right here, right now, I'll tell you, "Serenity" not only is better than every other episode of Star Wars (except Ep. 4, all hail episode 4.. I SAID ALL HAIL DAMMIT!) but it shows once again why science fiction is such an amazing genre. Yes, "Serenity" is a western in space, and yes there's a token black guy (Come on, you've seen the show... he's so token his name should be Chuck E. Cheese) but the script is so intelligently written that you could read the script and the flow would be so good you'd see the movie in your head.. The special effects are great, the acting is perfect and the characters are distinct and wonderfully created. Do yourself a favor and go see this movie.. you will not, WILL NOT be disappointed or else... uh... you will be. Great, GREAT movie. I do have 2 complaints however, but I'll save them for later cause they regard spoilers. Peace and love (the dirty way)
Oct. 7, 2005, 10 a.m. CST
People always talk about the browncoats as being to pushy but its shit for brains like that retart hauptman that turn the threads into huge arguements..thats why I wish for nothing more then skin cancer to arise on hauptmans nutz , hopefully his father see's it tonite and lets him know so he can get treated.
Oct. 7, 2005, 10:06 a.m. CST
please, people, don't be turned off by the rabidness of the "browncoats." SERENITY is a cracking good, fun, and meaningful sci-fi yarn and you'd be a fool to miss it because some wackos take it too far. do yourself a favor and go see it.
Oct. 7, 2005, 10:17 a.m. CST
by I Dunno
But Star Wars isn't sci-fi, it's fantasy/hero's journey. If you like Firefly better than Star Wars then that's super but they're completly films in completly different genres trying to tell different kinds of stories. As for the story in Serenity, I'd put it about even with an above average episode of Star Trek TNG. I'd say the FX and action were about as good as a later episode of DS9. The whole thing was somewhat inspired but hardly the greatist scfi epic ever told. Everything has to be either the best thing ever put to film or suck, there's no in between with some of you people. Serenity was in between, leaning towards very good. I really would have liked this to not bomb as badly as it did because we could use more original scifi/fantasy in film now that Star Wars retired, Star Trek died a horrible, twitching death, Alien is done for and The Chronicals of Riddick was still born. So I guess it's more comic book movies from now on.
Oct. 7, 2005, 10:36 a.m. CST
... shocking abuse of characters and all...
Oct. 7, 2005, 10:57 a.m. CST
Oct. 7, 2005, 11 a.m. CST
by capt jack aubrey
(lookie there, I can alliterate! i should be a sports headline writer!)... don't sweat (or crow over) the middling opening -- Universal isn't... for starters, Serenity is a definate word-of-mouth film and could do very well in the coming weeks of theatrical release as Browncoats go back -- i'm not one, but i'll probably grab a second theatrical dip before Halloween -- and as non-Firefly theater goers seek out some fun (except for the ending -- yikes!) space-ship action and adventure during a month that is heavier on romantic comedies and horror films... but even if Serenity doesn't pick up steam this weekend with a very low drop, it doesn't matter to Universal -- because theaters are just PR outlets now -- box office income is NOT the game anymore: the only reason studios seek a decent opening (not counting HUGE staggering box office runaway smash cash machines like Shrek or Fockers or Spidey) is to raise awareness and get positive buzz (either by reviews or brief "Number One Film/Comedy/Action Flick/Romantic Comedy in the Country" titles. Nearly ALL the profits in most theatrically released films now comes from DVDS. THAT'S why Universal made this film -- the huge swelling (heh heh) of support for Firefly on DVD didn't make Universal think "oh, I'll bet we can turn this into a box office hit in the theaters" -- it made them think, "if that many people bought a BOX SET of the show, think how many MORE would buy a single DVD of the movie, after it's had a heavily promoted theatrical run?"... and they're right -- not only will the infamous 200,000 Browncoats who bought the box buy the movie on dvd (and god knows how many extra "special edition" versions), but so will a lot of non-Browncoats who either saw the movie without having seen Firefly (some) or heard about it this fall and remember to rent or buy it next winter on dvd (most). Universal will do GREAT on Serenity dvd sales and rentals, they will make back their money and a very nice chunk more. And they WILL consider a sequel.
Oct. 7, 2005, 11:02 a.m. CST
I still get the made for TV feel. not that that's a bad thing though because i really liked TNG, DS9 and now I love Galactica. but I thought farscape and babylon5 were pretty lame. I think both buffy and angel are highly produced tv melodramas for men and it's hard to shake the feeling that this is more of the same. i watched the 9 minutes, but it has left me cold. i will see this but i think i will wait for dvd. i do want to see the series though.
Oct. 7, 2005, 11:02 a.m. CST
Seriously, I fail to understand the fuss about the special effects. Yes there were a couple of scenes that I felt weren't quite up to snuff but the movie was good and the few special effects shots that didn't work did not pull me out of the film. I wasn't a fan of the series (I saw a couple of episodes, it didn't hook me) and I didn't buy the DVD. I went into the theater with a very basic idea of what it was about and who these characters were. I loved it and will now be buying those DVD's to get more. This was pretty much better than 90% of what the studios threw at me this past summer. Probably better than 90% of what they've thrown at me every summer.
Oct. 7, 2005, 11:06 a.m. CST
LOL, ROFL, IPAMPILASH!! Good to see we fans can have a sense of humor about the film's less-than-stellar reception. I love these opening nine minutes, though I really wish they'd have let it roll through the title sequence "one-er."
Oct. 7, 2005, 11:06 a.m. CST
You know, and this might come as a shock to some of you small-minded Whedonites, but not every sci-fi show or movie has to be the same. Like, Firefly/Serenity cannot hold a candle to BSG, and yet how many times do you see a BSG fan post "Moore shows Whedon how sci-fi should be made"? Get off your high-horse. Firefly failed. Serenity is failing. Whedon is off making amazon woman from the moon. Lucas' epic owns your world, whether it is written better or not. Whedon should learn something from Lucas... if you want to touch people enough so that they flock to your movie, and watch your show, then make sure the story is interesting to more than .00000001% of the planet.
Oct. 7, 2005, 11:17 a.m. CST
Man, I'm still working my way through the DVDs, but how can you not show the super space stud in the first 10 minutes of the film?
Oct. 7, 2005, 11:24 a.m. CST
by The Dude Abides
It shouldn't be Star Wars vs. Star Trek vs. Babylon 5 vs. Battlestar Galactica vs. Firefly vs. Farscape. It SHOULD be about us supporting the genre so that we are treated with smart, well-crafted films, no matter what the premise. Rather than receive crappy sequels and remakes at our cineplex.
Oct. 7, 2005, 11:29 a.m. CST
embrace the thud.
Oct. 7, 2005, 11:29 a.m. CST
Where'd you read that? It's pretty much commong practice now days to "blend" steadycam shots, but I hadn't heard that about this one. Regardless, it's a cool moment and a great way to introduce the ship. And what's jobo doing here?
Oct. 7, 2005, 11:31 a.m. CST
I abide, Dude.
Oct. 7, 2005, 11:35 a.m. CST
Good to know. I haven't checked it out yet, but I will next time I'm at Borders.
Oct. 7, 2005, 11:40 a.m. CST
i love how the actor plays him, this sort of boyishly condescending attitude that chills to the bone. a BELIEVER! he's great. man, i loved this movie.
Oct. 7, 2005, 11:46 a.m. CST
by Blok Narpin
I saw Star Wars III in the theater three times. I loved it. It rocked so hard. I have seen Serenity twice and am going back tiday. It's awesome. They are both good. This "my geeky movie is better then your geeky movie" crap is so stupid. And for the record: DS9's effects looked good in 98/99 and they still look good today. Old or not they don't look dated at all. That show had the best space battles during the Dominion War that I have ever seen on TV, and to this day those effects look 20 times better then most effects we see in movies.
Oct. 7, 2005, 11:52 a.m. CST
I don't want my earlier comment to be interpreted as blatant Browncoatism, for that's not the case. I'm giving credit where credit is due... "Serenity" is a very, VERY well done science fiction film. And if you don't believe me, go see what sci-fi master Orson Scott Card has to say for it. "Serenity" is a great film. "Star Wars:EP4" is also a great movie... and hey, it's science fiction too! How about that? And I don't consider myself a browncoat or a Whedonite.. some episodes of "Angel" and "Buffy" were great, while others weren't.. and I've only ever seen the first two episodes of "Firefly" and that was on the Sci-Fi channel. Look, this year we saw the withering death of "Star Trek" (it'll be back) and "Star Wars" (at least on film.. nah, it'll be back too) so in my opinion all us here, we the proud brethern of film geekhood, should embrace a very good and worthy effort in the genre of sci-fi. Don't get me wrong, if you didn't like it, fine... can't please everyone all the time... but for anyone who enjoys a good story with some great dialogue, do yourself a favor and go take in a screening of "Serenity".
Oct. 7, 2005, 11:57 a.m. CST
I agree. Chiwetel Ejiofor was terrific as the operative, and incredibly charismatic on top of it all. The dude could be famous, if he wanted; he ought to have his pick of roles, in any case. ***************** The opening? Eh. While I think it's kind of neat that it's a narrative that turns out to be a flashback that turns out to be a dream that turns out to be a hologram, it's just so top-heavy with exposition; ditto for the tracking shot after the opening credits. Sounds to me like Thomas Newman was trying to appropriate (perhaps subconsciously) Howard Shore's score at the beginning of 'Fellowship of the Ring.' Anyone agree?
Oct. 7, 2005, 11:59 a.m. CST
by Kauzi Sezso
Go to a theater.
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:01 p.m. CST
Who's being obnoxious? I've noticed in several places (not just this site) that often loud obnoxious people pop up to complain about the loud obnoxious Browncoats, when the actual Browncoats are usually very polite. Star Wars as a point of comparison for space opera is an industry standard. Get over it. Serenity had better writing and more heart than the second trilogy. I think even Star Wars fans can agree to that. But like others have said, Star Wars is its own thing, while Serenity is its own thing. Which is better? Who cares. Enjoy both. Will Serenity make as much money as Star Wars? Of course not, no one has ever argued that. Most people who do the comparison in Serenity's favor are just defending themselves against stupid "Serenity sucks" posters.
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:02 p.m. CST
They let black people go to my school. Hey that's a joke, you ass.
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:05 p.m. CST
...rages on. And I signed up. I wasn't a browncoat before this movie, but seeing the film, then seeing the critical praise, then seeing the "meh" box office and the bickering of scifi fans just made me have to support this movie. I've gotten at least 10 people into the theater this week that wouldn't have gone. If Serenity can come in 3rd place this weekend, I'll be happy. I believe that the US marketing strategy was pretty bad. Why? Somehow, people still haven't heard about this movie. I think that beautiful abortion of a poster didn't help either. Now the UK poster, that will sell tickets. George Lucas knew how to put a poster together for a sci-fi movie. Serenity's poster should have had that George Lucas collage of action type of feel. Oh, the word is getting out there. Serenity is Number 2 on the Google most-searched-word list, right after Giant Squid.
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:05 p.m. CST
During the "making of" feature they had on the Sci Fi channel (which you can still find online over at Yahoo!, I believe), Joss says the Operative really represents the Alliance in that it wants to be liked to damn much, even though it might be the thing killing you. Think of the opening scene with the dude from A Might Wind (who I met once, by the by). He's actually telling the man, with a smile and soothing voice, to be happy about being impaled by a sword. "This is a good death." Bad. Ass.
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:05 p.m. CST
there is alot of exposition there, but i thought it was handled quite efficiently considering how much they had to set up for new audiences (like me with only a tangential knowledge of the show), while not bogging it down for veterans. i think it's kind of amazing that it can stand alone as a film AND be the last episode. the guy certainly knows what he's doing (although what he's doing is better suited for the small screen, IMHO.)
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:09 p.m. CST
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:10 p.m. CST
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:11 p.m. CST
I'm an unabashed fan of all thing Star Wars. I love the original trilogy and I love all three prequels, warts and all. To me, there is still something pure and innocent and completely uncynical about them. I don't think I'll ever grow out of my love for Star Wars, but the more mature me is now more stimulated by "smarter" fare like Serenity. Liking one doesn't negate the other, but at this point in my life I'm a little more interested in sci fi and fantasy that's a little closer to home. Star Wars works great as a myth, a parable, a grand story. Serenity is folklore. Serenity is closer to home, more "real," if you will.
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:12 p.m. CST
I know this is an odd case cause I've never worn a cape or nothin but just wanted to say I enjoyed the "serenity" picture but also star wars part 3. Is that allowed? I guess I don't really get why you fuckers have to compare every god damn thing that ever happens in your life to george lucas. Like maybe it is time to move on now. It seems to me that these movies aren't too similar despite both being in space. For example Serenity = no aliens at all, Star Wars = as many aliens are there are dinosaurs in the Flinstones. Comparing those two movies is the type of broad generalization that a guy like me should be making, not you space obsessed freakos. But then what do I know, I liked star wars part 3.
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:12 p.m. CST
Fucking enter button. But he is right. There is absolutely no shame in this. This looks fucking awesome! The movie opens here in November & I can't wait for it! No matter what the Box Office does, DVD sales and rentals will sky rocket, just like they did on Fight Club and Shawshank Redemption.
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:15 p.m. CST
You're a geek.. hey wait.. I'm posting to a goddamn talkback board. Fuck.
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:18 p.m. CST
by The Ref
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:20 p.m. CST
that was some great streaming video. color me impressed, works better than quicktime almost!...almost.
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:24 p.m. CST
but that's a great assessment of the differences between Star Wars and Serenity. SW as myth, Serenity as folklore. The stories of how the Empire rose and fell are the canonical stories of the great, larger than life heroes and villains, the magicians and warriors. While Serenity is about the little guy, the people's hero(es). Kinda reminds me of the difference in Irish myth between the gods' stories (and Cuchulain, the great warrior superhero) and Finn MacCool, the trickster-like warrior who usually won his battles by outsmarting the enemy (who sometimes were giants) rather than just brute strength. In Irish culture, the Finn stories were usually more based in oral tradition and more popular with the common folk. Mal and Jayne are the Finn MacCools of the 'verse folklore.
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:33 p.m. CST
Frank Miller once made the comparison that DC was myth vs. Marvel's folklore and I've always remembered that. I think it's pretty fitting here. Folklore tends to be smaller and, in some cases, easier, but it has an immediate, continued impact. It's the story you tell on your back porch instead of in a ginormous theater. And hey, sorry the Zone is taking so long. Send me an e-mail at MasterWhedon@AINTITCOOLMAIL.COM and I'll hook you up. Never used that address before, but I figure what better use is there?
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:35 p.m. CST
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:37 p.m. CST
Why not just change the name of this site to WHEDONFANS.com? Jesus.
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:48 p.m. CST
I'm not sure if you have the power to do this, but I got the address and sent an email, so you can take your address down if you like. Thanks.
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:51 p.m. CST
Can't edit on here... but you can in the Zone! Anyway, it's a nothing e-mail I'd only use for times like this. I'll send you the link.
Oct. 7, 2005, 12:54 p.m. CST
I liked Serenity-but it was a TV episode. Basically Star Wars is Lord of the Rings while Serenity/Firefly is Dragonlance books. Honestly, Serenity was NOT better than episode III. The whole concept of Star Wars is beyond Josh Weadons ability. I say this: Weadon works better on TV. There he can let the characters grow and change. He's an emotional drug dealer. He deals in little bits and then brings you back. Movie wise, you did not have the same emotional investment because you needed the TV show to get closer to the characters. I liked Serenity-but it was a TV episode. Star Wars works on a different level, it's dealing with epic characters and epic events. Anakins emotional payback will come in ROTJ. Mark my words-Watching Episodes I-VI will put the whole thing in a new light. Things will fall into place and the character development will be there.
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:01 p.m. CST
serenity is 100% better. Why? if you have seen both you know what im talking about.
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:17 p.m. CST
Just a guess, but I'm betting that "Firefly" and 'Serenity' feature about 0 pop culture references, ballpark.
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:20 p.m. CST
...obviously talk about whatever you want, or whatever, but I recommend the "Star Wars" comparisons stop. You're only allowing trolls to get self-righteous when they belittle you for liking 'Serenity.'
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:20 p.m. CST
And Blue Sun. I'm constantly referring to Blue Sun products.
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:20 p.m. CST
seriously, it is. i love STAR WARS and SERENITY as well as a whole host of other genre entertainments. also, i haven't fooled myself into thinking that my enjoyment of a particular genre film (or franchise) constitutes what could even remotely be thought of as an authentic identity worth defending or fighting about. in short, if you define yourself by your entertainment choices and think that has even a shread of relevance in the real world, you are irretrieveably insane and need to seek counseling immediately. please feel free to direct the energy you've been wasting towards something purposeful and positive. you're welcome.
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:23 p.m. CST
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:28 p.m. CST
by I Dunno
I like them both but I think comparing Serenity to SW is a joke. But you don't see me ranting about it. Notice it's always the "Browncoats" (God that's stupid) who have to pick the fight. It's ridiculous. Live and let live for Chrissakes.
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:28 p.m. CST
So you haven't SEEN it and don't know what the hell you're talking about. I got it now. Thanks. ****** So for anyone who has seen it: what exactly does that Village Voice critic mean by pop-culture references? 'Cause the movie's certainly not assembled of the type that I usually associate with the term.
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:33 p.m. CST
the popculture references in SERENITY are entirely those of context -- space cowboys; imperialist empires; j-advertisments; space zombies (okay, cannibals), etc -- not explicit references such as we've seen in the witty / selfaware BUFFY/ANGEL dialouge. this makes it somewhat like STAR WARS (which also borrowed liberally from 20th century pop-culture films and ancient myth) while also being a completely unique universe. personally, i love BUFFY/ANGEL and SERENITY and they couldn't be more different while also retaining somewhat similar core hipness, flippance, and wit. comparisons between STAR WARS and SERENITY are easy to make -- Mal basically is Whedon's take on Han Solo -- but it doesn't make them "enemies," and it doesn't make on subservient to the other. they both have their own unique merits. i think you should give SERENITY a chance.
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:36 p.m. CST
You know it's true.
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:36 p.m. CST
B.O. is irrelevant; the theatrical release is mere advertising.
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:37 p.m. CST
Zombie's got it! Zombie's got it!
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:37 p.m. CST
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:40 p.m. CST
thanx MasterWhedon... catch ya in the zone! ;-)
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:40 p.m. CST
by Lazarus Long
I thought I would finally see what all the hype was about by going to a matinee this afternoon. But I happened to lick on AICN and this story was just the last straw. I know this website is about film love, but Hercules has become so obsessed and preoccupied that Whedon news is taking over everything. It just reeks of desparation. All the good reviews on here couldn't get enough people into the theatres, so now you're trying to dangle "the first 9 minutes"? Fucking pathetic. I still plan on seeing Serenity because I consider myself to be objective, and if that many people respect someone's craft I want to check it out. But I will now wait until it hits the cheap theatres. It's only a difference of about 5 bucks, but there you have it. You have just lowered the box office total. Perhaps there are others like me who won't see it at all now because of your can't-take-no-for-an-answer mentality.
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:44 p.m. CST
And whoever the hell started this argument is pissing me off right now. The difference between 'Serenity' and 'Revenge of the Sith' is that Star Wars has earned public acceptance, and so Star Wars could make twenty more movies and every single one of them will make more in the United States than 'Serenity' will make at all. That's something you people are going to have to accept. 'Serenity''s dismal take has a lot to do with the fact that people generally don't have a lot of use for another one of those space movies, and if I were in their shoes, I can't necessarily say I'd blame them. Things are bought and sold in types. Why do you think 'Flightplan' is doing gangbusters? Because it's good? Airplane melodrama, missing child melodrama, Jodie Foster. That's how it works. Everything is a commodity, small movies that compete for the niche of a bigger movie will not win it, and if you're very, very lucky, word-of-mouth will sweep in and save the day. It's got more to do with the way movies are marketed than "Star Wars" itself, and you only invite hostility when you compare the two unfavorably, especially since everybody and their brother seems to hate Whedon fans on point of fact. Then again, you could diss Lucas all you want if you didn't like that "other (other other other)" space movie, so it's not like "it's always the 'Browncoats' (God that's stupid) who have to pick the fight." Every "group" makes comparisons. And none of them are fair. It's fucked up, I agree. But what are you gonna do? *********** P.S. the term "Browncoats" is not stupid, as far as "group names" go. Jesus Christ. That's what they call the Independents (main character "Mal" being one of them) in the TV show "Firefly." They're underdogs fighting a losing battle (or a battle already lost), but one they believe in nonetheless. Hence the term.
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:53 p.m. CST
Really? In context I highly doubt that; if it was a pop culture reference (to the male "Mr. Universe" competition, I suppose), it was subconscious at best. If I thought it were a pop culture reference I would just say so. It's not like I need this movie to be good so bad that I'll make shit up just to stymie your arguments. If anything I think it's the other way around with you; hence the fact that you're trolling the TalkBacks for a movie you have absolutely no interest in.
Oct. 7, 2005, 1:58 p.m. CST
by the Grobe
I make the comparison myself to illustrate how this series and movie changed my love for something that I revered for 25 years. It's not like I have something to prove, I just had an epiphany somewhere between disc 2 and 3 of Firefly (I only discovered it 2 weeks ago, and I hate Buffy and Angel so don't even dare call me a Whedonite) that all those people who said Lucas made special effects demos were right all along. I feel Lucas used to have a story to tell but got lost along the way, while Whedon makes it clear that story comes first. If my biggest lifelong geek obsession was suddenly replaced by another, you're damn right I'll make a comparison. Also, I find it funny when someone makes a somewhat relevant comment and then slips in the non-sequitur: "just like liberals". If you can't keep your politics out of a conversation about sci-fi, you're "just like an asshole" in my book.
Oct. 7, 2005, 2:25 p.m. CST
give me some Robotech.
Oct. 7, 2005, 2:34 p.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
(A) This was one of the funniest overall articles the alwasy-funny Herc has ever posted. Sarcasm? Yes, please, I'll have extra. (B) This isn't a desperate act. It's a very smart act. You'll notice it was UIP who put this online. The international distributor, not the domestic one. The film is just opening overseas, so they're still looking forward in those markets. This is exactly the sort of thing that many other studios have done before (starting, I believe, with 28 DAYS LATER), and Universal had great luck with this strategy with DAWN OF THE DEAD. I like the movie. I hope it works to bring in a few more viewers who might otherwise not have taken a chance on the movie.
Oct. 7, 2005, 2:41 p.m. CST
I saw only one with fans, talking about the screenings five months ago. Not a good commercial. Were there any better ones, maybe with "Ebert and Roper give it two thumbs up" or something that will appeal to the mainstream, not scare them? Also, as far as I know none of the cast or Whedon were on any of the late-night talk shows last week. Did they make any appearances this week? That would have helped the movie reach an audience it might not have otherwise found.
Oct. 7, 2005, 2:46 p.m. CST
by I Dunno
But how can you argue that Star Wars doesn't have a story? You might not like the story or how it was told but it does have one and a fairly complex one at that. Serenity's story is at about the level of a Star Trek episode, no more, no less. Just because it's lower budget doesn't make it any deeper or better written.
Oct. 7, 2005, 2:48 p.m. CST
Just so everyone here is clear on that...
Oct. 7, 2005, 2:48 p.m. CST
Why is it that Whedon fans are taking it personally? Seriously, I see you (cultie-type fans) guys defending the movie like it's your own baby. For cryin' out loud, see it if you want to, and other people will see it if they want to. But don't go shoving it around like having the movie seen by EVERYONE is a battle to be won, so fucking get over it. Christ, you people come off like Scientologists (you, meaning you the ones who feel the desperate need to "fight" for this movie's acceptance like it was a religion). In the meantime, crtjester20...I don't give a shit what OSC thinks. He sounds like a Whedon cultie. Jesus, seriously, if he thinks if you don't want to see this movie because you're some kind of coward that's instead sitting home and watching Full House, it means he's more a pretentious hosebag fanboy than anything. Which is sad, considering the respect that his name suggests. Never read anything by the man, but if he can't even be bothered to be more objective, I never will.
Oct. 7, 2005, 2:51 p.m. CST
Oct. 7, 2005, 2:53 p.m. CST
I'm with you Moriarty. I highly recomend this movie to geeks & non-geeks alike. This is the first sci-fi movie to come out in awhile that actually has an interesting storyline & characters. It has a nice balance of humor, drama, action, brutal violence and tragedy. Five cheers to Joss Whedon, he truly The Master!
Oct. 7, 2005, 2:53 p.m. CST
Critics, schmitics. I called ROTS as a piece of shit back when all the critics were calling it massive. The husband and I couldn't watch the movie the whole way through because we were too busy laughing at it. So, I'm not too keen on what the critics rate a movie in general, but more on how things are stated in their reviews (ROTS is a special case...the generations of loyalty are unquestionable). I'm not going to go into details, but I think personally that Serenity came out in a time when movies are so bad that something even remotely decent-looking suddenly looks like the greatest thing EVER. I called mediocrity on ROTS, and I'm calling mediocrity on this one. And for my money, I'm gonna stake my bets on Wallace and Gromit this weekend.
Oct. 7, 2005, 2:54 p.m. CST
He said that each ten minutes of the film was better than the last. I've seen it twice. Once as a Firefly fanboy loser, and then later as a more casual filmgoer. I can see how dodgy the beginning was to the uniniated now. It's not a flawless film, but it is an ambitious one. That alone warrants some praise and respect, as far as I'm concerned.
Oct. 7, 2005, 3:01 p.m. CST
They're not the Hollywood elite! They're not being pushed by the GREAT! HOLLYWOOD! MACHINE! as the NEXT! BIG! THING! All right, I'm going to defend Serenity on this one: The stars of Serenity are not A-listers in a time when Britney Spears can still attract serious news attention. Truly not fair, I'll side with anyone on this site about that. No Famewhoring, No Publicity. So, I don't really believe there's some great conspiracy out to swallow up Serenity. I just think that Joss Whedon is not one of H'wood's A-list directors, nor did he cast any recognizable name stars (and remember, this is a time when REALITY TV 'stars' are more recognizable) or people who gave such stellar performances that other casting directors are knocking down their doors, so your average late-night viewer is going to do what? Turn on the show with the 'Serenity' star? I'd bet my left ovary they wouldn't.
Oct. 7, 2005, 3:04 p.m. CST
For all you Whedon bashers, and those who are boycotting this because of Herc's support or the coverage in general, there's a simple answer. Get off this fucking site. Even though we all know Herc loves Whedon projects, I think he has made a conscious effort NOT to overdo things on his Serenity coverage. In fact, I think this is the first thing he's posted about it in quite some time, even with the moving coming out now. Harry and others have reviews on here, but Herc's been quiet. Regarding Whedon bashers, when you have the balls to actually make something with your sad little lives, instead of living vicariously though talkbacks, let me know, so I can bash your projects. But I forgot, you don't have such projects. The man was so passionate about something he believed in, he fought against every Hollywood norm and got his film made. He didn't have a $200M budget to work with, or his own effects company. But he did it. And it's a god damn good movie, with more balls than any Ewok, Jar Jar, made for kids, commercialism bullshit. His plot twists and characters aren't developed to maximize his audience. If he doesn't get the 8 year olds in the seats, or sell happy meals, he doesn't care. You think a film's more successful if he were to include some teddy bears so he'd make a few more bucks at the box office. No. He made it his way, in the most powerful way he could, masses be damned. That kind of thinking, devotion, and work should be applauded here, if we really do love film, creativity, and things that most of us would like to claim we support.
Oct. 7, 2005, 3:12 p.m. CST
That brought a tear to my eye. Just beautiful, man. (not being sarcastic)
Oct. 7, 2005, 3:14 p.m. CST
1. Why do we have to justify our lives to you for not liking a movie? Jeez. 2. It must be nice living in a world where everyone must agree with you at all times. Nice, but boring. Can you send me a postcard from there? Me, personally, I like a good debate. I like it when people disagree with me, because it gives me something to think about. Sure, some people can be assholes about it, but you're going to get those everywhere you go in life. Cripes. If you can't handle other people's opinions, just go back to bed and stay there. The world doesn't want you anyway. 3. If the movie is any good, it will stand up for itself, no fanboy defense necessary, kid. If you like it, fine. Other people won't. You're just going to have to accept that. It doesn't need universal acceptance. It just needs yours. Once you realize that, you'll be a much happier person.
Oct. 7, 2005, 3:15 p.m. CST
...people who hate Whedon have as much right to be on this site as people who love him do; and people who haven't made movies have just as much right to have opinions on them as people who have. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean you can censor it.
Oct. 7, 2005, 3:20 p.m. CST
a cuple of months ago he wasn't so popular around here (personally I enjoyed episode 1, the other 5 were shit, and I haven't seen serenity yet, so I don't care; just wanted to interject that thought). This link is not working for me.. anyone have a torrent?
Oct. 7, 2005, 3:27 p.m. CST
I have NO problem with a good debate, as to what people like/dislike with a particular movie, director, etc. But it is really, really annoys me when people come to this site, click on a link that specifically references a topic (in this case, Whedon, Firefly), and then take the time to rant about how they hate the enthusiams of those fans, hate how Herc supports it, and are sick of reading about it. The people who founded this site love movies, and are excited about their favorites. Herc is no exception, and neither is the Whedon fans who come here to talk about the shows and movies they like. If this isn't your thing, then please explain why you're on this board. Go to something you actually like instead. Enjoy movies instead of spending your time in your mom's basement bitching about how you could do everything better. Because the fact is, if you could, you would.
Oct. 7, 2005, 3:32 p.m. CST
What was it they called those people who really got all into that fuckin Martin Riggs movie from last year... oh yeah.. "christians" what a fuckin name. I get it, Passion of the CHRIST... "christians"... jesus what a fuckin name. Goddamn Christ geeks. Hey wait..
Oct. 7, 2005, 3:37 p.m. CST
by Gheorghe Zamfir
I think Memento was the first film to use the internet to premier its first 9 minutes.
Oct. 7, 2005, 3:37 p.m. CST
I mean, seriously, just look at them.
Oct. 7, 2005, 3:41 p.m. CST
by capt jack aubrey
just to pile on and restate: the Voice was referring to the fact that Serenity heavily borrows tropes and styles and themes from pop culture GENRES such as Westerns, Space Operas, etc... not that it specifically drops individual pop culture references (as, say, Buffy, Angel, the OC, and Veronica Mars do)
Oct. 7, 2005, 3:42 p.m. CST
This is still a TREK universe, baby. Although, 50 years from now the world will still know who Darth Vader is. So SW must get credit as having longevity. Firefly will have winked out long before that.
Oct. 7, 2005, 3:44 p.m. CST
Do us a favor and please dont go , its to complex for you anyway..
Oct. 7, 2005, 3:44 p.m. CST
Lighten up, Francis.
Oct. 7, 2005, 3:45 p.m. CST
by the Grobe
Come on, after watching the convoluted Jedi Council meetings and Trade Federation embargos, and all of the inane jibber-jabber between Anakin and Padme, and the climactic "Noooooooooooooo"... you can't tell me Lucas is a good story-teller ANYMORE with a straight face. All he did was get us from Point A (Anakin as a good kid) to Point B (Anakin as a ruthless monster). About the only moment where I felt anything in ROTS was Obi-Wan's final words to Anakin, and even that was poorly written. Like I said in my post... I was a fan of Star Wars for 25 years, I still love my Original Trilogy, but the prequels have tarnished their character (well, the Special Editions actually did that first) and I've found something I like better. I'm as surprised as anyone, but I stand behind what I said.
Oct. 7, 2005, 3:56 p.m. CST
by capt jack aubrey
two things: 1) i'm not gonna go count, but i can't imagine Herc's Joss-love is that out of purportion to the Star Wars or LOTR coverage on AICN over the years -- i mean, come on -- it's a FAN site -- it's whole raisin det-tra is to let fans on both sides of the url geek out over things they love -- true, Joss and Buffy and Firefly are not the huge genre touchstones that Star Wars and LOTR were (at least not YET), but that makes it all the more important and fun for Herc and others to promote and continually praise them -- that feeds into the whole Browncoats theme of little guys fighting the power , and 2) along those lines, i have to say, i'm a pretty big Whedon fan, of Buffy, Angel, Firefly, and Serenity, and i do firmly believe he is, right now, where Spielberg and Lucas were in the early '70s, where Jackson was in the late '90s: he's right on the cusp of becoming a major mainstream creative force -- Buffy, Angel, Firefly, and Serenity ain't perfect (and we won't even go there with Alien Res and toad-lightning debates), but they all point to a creative force that can be stunningly brilliant quite often and is growing and getting stronger and more impressive with every project... with Whedon's debut as a feature film director, I think we're just seeing the start of what he can and will do... just remember, people (ie geeks) FREAKED out over Peter Jackson getting LOTR in 1998: he had no stunning credentials, he was a geeky genre gore guy, not an epic fantasy guy, etc... wait and watch -- in five years Whedon will be in the Pantheon (whether it's in film or tv -- if Joss ever returns to the small screen, i could seriously see him doing something utterly amazing and genrey on HBO, a la the Davids Chase and Milch)... 20 years from now, I firmly believe, Whedon will be praised as much, if not more, than Lucas or Spielberg -- honestly, i think he's that good, and i think he has only JUST BEGUN to show what he's capable of...
Oct. 7, 2005, 4:03 p.m. CST
Oct. 7, 2005, 4:14 p.m. CST
by capt jack aubrey
i love the Buffyverse and Firefly, and I hope he can keep adding to both those epics (after all, Tolkien never really got out of middle earth), but i was a little dismayed by both the Wonder Woman and Goners announcements because I'd like to see him show that he can do more than "tough, fighting girls" -- sure, our culture can certainly use those kinds of characters, but i'd like to see Whedon show the rest of the world that he can do even more... and maybe WW and Goners will show depth and angles that people won't be expecting from Whedon -- but still, i'd like to see him step outside his thematic comfort zone, as Jackson did with LOTR...
Oct. 7, 2005, 4:15 p.m. CST
Messing up the tables is a sodomizing offense on this board.. don't worry about lubing up... we'll just make a new hole.
Oct. 7, 2005, 4:18 p.m. CST
by capt jack aubrey
i certainly don't mean to suggest that whedon's work is just 'tough fighting girls' -- all of us whedon fans know there's SO much more to them than that -- and i'm not hoping Whedon abandons the fantasy or sf genres... only that he does something major that makes the mainstream (which loves nothing more than to label -- after all, peter jackson was "just" a "zombie horror filmmaker" when he got LOTR) sit up and reassess Whedon as more than "just" the creator of Buffy (though I'm sure Joss would say he'd be happy to have that on HIS tombstone)
Oct. 7, 2005, 4:23 p.m. CST
And please, folks, PLEASE, I know you're trigger-happy, but understand that this is not me comparing the quality of their work. Ahem. So Miyazaki revisits a lot of similar themes, one of the chief ones the self-actualization of young girls. Miyazaki's following is practically academic; his tropes are called "auteurism." So why is it a problem if Whedon does the same thing? I honestly don't understand. If he wants to tell more diverse stories, swell, but not if it's at the expense of subject matter he considers to be interesting.
Oct. 7, 2005, 4:24 p.m. CST
What is 'Goners' even about? I have no clue, 'cept for it being a horror movie.
Oct. 7, 2005, 4:25 p.m. CST
Truth. Star Wars made 100 times the money. Truth. Star Wars has a much bigger following. Truth. Star Wars will be around long after all of us are dead. Truth. Whedonites are the Scientologists of sci-fi, in otherwords, fuck off.
Oct. 7, 2005, 4:26 p.m. CST
Goddamned talkback stretcher.
Oct. 7, 2005, 4:30 p.m. CST
Yeah, I'm going to let some stupid company install a "video player" on my PC. Nice try, jerkass.
Oct. 7, 2005, 4:33 p.m. CST
Love how you tell people who like Whedon to "fuck off" a Whedon TalkBack. And, by the way, explain how the fuck "Whedonites" are Scientologists. I know it sounds good with your argument, but I suspect it's a pile of horse manure.
Oct. 7, 2005, 4:35 p.m. CST
Actually it prompts you every time you go that site..so i don't think it installs it...and if you have broadband, you have to wait 2 seconds to get high resolution one.
Oct. 7, 2005, 4:36 p.m. CST
Fuck it. Don't bother. I'm sick of trying to talk shop with you people. Whedon sucks, anyone who likes his work is a cult member, and someday, maybe, we'll be as enlightened as you are now. Whatever.
Oct. 7, 2005, 4:40 p.m. CST
Since it didn't happen in ANY TV show last season, is sure looked like he ended up just spoiling the movie. Is that what happened?
Oct. 7, 2005, 4:48 p.m. CST
That's what Mori implied in the Zone the other day, binder. Makes sense, since Serenity was originally supposed to come out in April, and around that time Herc said we wouldn't know until season two, this fall. Now that it's out, he should come clean. And who stretched out the thread?
Oct. 7, 2005, 4:49 p.m. CST
by Gheorghe Zamfir
That's exactly what happened. I don't know if Mars had even come out at the time Herc made the prediction.
Oct. 7, 2005, 4:59 p.m. CST
by capt jack aubrey
Truth: Passion of the Christ made more than Jaws, therefore Mel Gibson is a better director than Speilberg. Truth: My Big Fat Greek Wedding made 30 times more at the box office than Dazed and Confused, therefore fact: Greek Wedding is 30 times better than D&C.
Oct. 7, 2005, 5:03 p.m. CST
by the Grobe
Star Wars made more money. Truth. At one point, Deer Hunter was the most successful video game of all time. Also Truth. Don't confuse money with quality, because a million Wal-Marts would beg to differ. Truth. And you are the Scientologist here, trying to convince people who obviously share a love of something you don't that they are crazy because you think know something they don't. Fuck off, Mr. Cruise.
Oct. 7, 2005, 5:33 p.m. CST
"... DocStrange gets pwned."
Oct. 7, 2005, 5:36 p.m. CST
by Hideo Kojima
*spoilers* the way they treat wash's death was lame, the retconning of simon was lame, the whole "we gotta get the message out durrr cant stop da signal!!!11" was just lame... the fact that mal and inarra didnt bone is lame, and the complete anticlimax as far as shepherd book's character arc was lame as lame can be I must say... |||| Firefly > Serenity, by a mile.
Oct. 7, 2005, 5:37 p.m. CST
I'm just surprised I didn't see it more. (With our new dvr upgrade on the cable, we're watching waaayy too much tv). Let's explain this once and for all for those who don't seem to get it. Star Wars is a behemoth. No one needs to spread the word about it or introduce friends to it. It's in our cultural genes. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean it's high quality, but that's beside the point. Firefly/Serenity has a cult following that most people don't know about it, therefore its fans like to talk it up and spread the word and promote and defend the thing they love. When others come on and bash it with less than intelligent arguments, of course fans are going to come to its defense. So don't come on here and whine that "Browncoats" are shoving your face in it. People are just defending what they love from idiotic attacks. If it's not your thing, fine. But bashing the fans and creating straw man arguments against these fans "fanaticism" is just bullshit. The notion that this site is taken over by Whedonites is also just fucking ridiculous. I'll repeat an above poster who said, if you don't like it, don't come to a Firefly/Serenity thread. Me, if I'm going to compare Serenity and Star Wars, it's not going to be about how one sucks and the other doesn't, but about how both handle/redefine the genre and how both engage our notions of popular culture, myth and folklore. (BTW, I agree, most people misunderstand the whole "pop culture references." The show/movie takes place 500 years in the future. Exactly what pop culture could they reference? I remember there was a reference to a Beatles song in the pilot, but that was it. For that matter, Farscape had tons of pop culture references, thanks to Crichton ("Close Encounters, my ass"). So, yes, the "pop culture references" that critics mention are about genre tropes.
Oct. 7, 2005, 5:40 p.m. CST
by Hideo Kojima
unless you are not taking plot, storyline, visuals, swordfighting and scenarios into account. how is that Ep 3 can tie together five other movies together perfectly yet Serenity cannot even continue a TV show that ran for half a season without grossly retconning one of its characters? Joss Whedon is like a polyp on George Lucas's asshole.
Oct. 7, 2005, 5:55 p.m. CST
As much as I was annoyed by Simon's retcon, that's nothing compared to Lucas. Last time I checked, Lucas is the KING of retcons. Um, suddenly we're supposed to believe that Luke and Leia are brother and sister? I mean he retooled his old movies so that they'd fit the new ones. Hayden Christiansen in ROTJ? That's retconning on the most fundamental level, that you'd actually change the film, erasing the record! And I still say that the writing of Anakin and Padme had no heart whatsoever and felt more like a Greek tragedy (unlike Serenity... crap - I wasn't going to say it. Oh well).
Oct. 7, 2005, 6:14 p.m. CST
Anyone who doesn't go see this movie, doesn't deserve good movies. I wish Rob Schneider and fucking Adam Sandler on you forever.
Oct. 7, 2005, 6:23 p.m. CST
by Bass Ackwards
Anyone check out the SF Chronicle article? The guy got so much hate mail after writing a positive review (he called the film a triumph), he had to come back the next week and write about em. Now, keep in mind, he's only talking about hard core fans, and says most of you guys probably are pretty normal. But still, thought it was funny that like Harry and Mori, the guy got flack for writing a positive review, hate to see the kind of mail that other 20% of reviewers are getting. "Since reviewing the movie "Serenity" last week, I've become convinced that the new film by writer/director Joss Whedon has spawned the most hard core science fiction and fantasy enthusiasts ever to walk this planet. This includes people who learn to speak Klingon, people who remain in character after they leave the Renaissance Faire and people who boycotted the "Lord of the Rings" movies because there were elves at Helm's Deep." http://tinyurl.com/abtq2
Oct. 7, 2005, 6:23 p.m. CST
Okay, the Greedo shot first thing may still sting, I'll admit. But still, Serenity seems more like a reaction to Star Trek than anything else - the sort of utopian science fiction that predominated during the 1960's. The stuff that William Gibson made into the stuff of horror movies in "The Greensback Continuum." Bottom line, which I think a lot of people will agree with me on: Serenity is sci-fi done right.
Oct. 7, 2005, 6:23 p.m. CST
No, BSG is very run of the mill crap, mediocre acting and writing.
Oct. 7, 2005, 6:28 p.m. CST
In the series, he tells the crew that he hired people to rescue River and saw her again for the first time when they opened the crate in cargo, not that he did it himself. On the show, when we saw him try to pull off a disguise, he didn't do too well and he was pretty timid, only fighting when he had to protect River. In the movie, suddenly he's a badass who's all aggressive with Mal, disguised as military who breaks into a top secret facility, and he knew what the Alliance had done to her and even had a safe word to turn her off, while on the show he couldn't control her and had to break her in to a medical facility to figure out what happened to her. So in order to make this work, we'd have to believe that Simon lied to the crew (which certainly didn't seem like the case) about how much he knew. Anyway, it's just a beef I had. I had a few other questions, but otherwise I loved it.
Oct. 7, 2005, 6:36 p.m. CST
Hi HIdeo are u one of George's yes men who have destroyed a trilogy that sld have been the next level of film making and not a CGI bore that had pretty visuals but not much else. Films are about telling stories, about people in conflicts. Where was this in the PT?? or did George say it was and u say yes??
Oct. 7, 2005, 6:41 p.m. CST
Oct. 7, 2005, 6:53 p.m. CST
by Spaz Medicine
Read my post in the review talback of the movie. I never watched the show, but walked into SERENITY with an open mind. If anything, based on the feedback I had been hearing about the film, I was expecting to love it. But, I am sorry, I just could not. For me, this movie put on display some of the worst acting imaginable. With little exception, I could not sympathize with any of the crew. They were all borderline catatonic, with absolutely zero personality coming through. The captain, Alan Tudyck (who I normally love).... they were all such boring characters. And even when the drama was kicking into high gear, none of them (especially the captain) seemed like they could handle the weight. Now, none of this was helped by some of the clunkiest dialogue known to man. Someone else said it before and it is really true. Not one person in the word talks like any of these characters did, to the point where it was just distracting. Between these two elements of the movie, It was over for me. My father, who I took to see this (huge genre fan) liked the movie, though he agreed with many of my observations. I came here looking for an explanation and nobody could offer me one. Why were these characters so bland? It should've been the complete opposite. These characters would have gone through so much shit before this movie picked up that they should have been overflowing with traits to make them stand out. I didn't see much of the a difference between any of them (with the exception of the one guy - the musle) and the robotic assassin. No charisma whatsoever. If someone could offer me a valid explanation for why this was done on purpose that I could buy, maybe I would change my mind. Otherwise, this movie failed on the weight of its actors and their dialogue. Much of the plot and action I liked, and most of it was pretty original. But, the characters are supposed to make movies like this good, and they did the exact opposite in this film.
Oct. 7, 2005, 6:57 p.m. CST
by Hideo Kojima
Honestly, if you cannot follow the story and conflicts in the Star Wars Saga then please, stop watching cinema.
Oct. 7, 2005, 6:59 p.m. CST
He did have help getting River out of the facility (see the ship that lowered down the plank) 2nd the disguise he was donning in the movie was when he was getting River out. These guy had hurt his sister, and he knew that he needed to pull it off in order to get her out of there. Also, he was pretending to be a quasi scientist type, which wasn't really a stretch for him. In terms of being agressive with Mal and changing, the movie takes place a year after the series ended. He's been hanging around bad asses like Zoe and Jayne, so he's going to pick up a few things. I'm not a Simon fan personally, but these are tweaks that I can deal with and are not that far fetched.
Oct. 7, 2005, 7:12 p.m. CST
It's actually more like six months since the show ended. And Simon is shown early and often throughout the series standing up to insurmountable odds to save his sister. In the Pilot, he jumps off the upper walkway onto Dobson when he's using River for cover. And oisin5199, I don't remember him specifically saying the first time he saw her afterward was when she came out of the box. My impression at that point was that someone else broke her out and delivered her to him, at which point Simon placed her in the box himself. The fact that Simon is there in the film doesn't strain my previous notions much at all. Also, Simon excels at playing the upper crust snob, so playing someone from Parliment isn't that far off.
Oct. 7, 2005, 7:17 p.m. CST
Geez they should have left that ambiguous. What are there, a thousand planets and moons orbiting the one sun? Acchhh.. I'm all for character-led drama but I do require some slight plausibility in the setup....
Oct. 7, 2005, 7:17 p.m. CST
Yes, Simon was more timid in the show, he was in a new place with no friends and was running for his life. By the time of the movie, we're 6 months later and hes probably fed up with the bullshit he's had to deal with. Theres only so much anyone can take, even timid little doctors. Yes, he wasnt supposed to be the one that broke her out, but thats minor. His ability to act his way through it is inconsistant with Jaynestown, but his sisters life was on the line and it was a place he felt more at home in than a border moon where he was just along for the ride, pretending to buy mud.
Oct. 7, 2005, 7:22 p.m. CST
by Gheorghe Zamfir
and hundreds of moons.
Oct. 7, 2005, 7:25 p.m. CST
I feel claustrophobic just thinking about it...
Oct. 7, 2005, 7:26 p.m. CST
Not only will I NEVER see "Serenity", but I will personally boycott anything and everything touched by Joss Whedon's pen after this, and rail long and hard against the man and his abortions of creativity. FUCK Serenity. FUCK Whedon. And FUCK the browncoats for being such incredible assholes that I am completely soured on this whole subject.
Oct. 7, 2005, 7:30 p.m. CST
by Thirteen 13
And no I'm not a huge Firefly fan. Its a good solid show but I'm not a rabid fan. But I enjoyed the film Serenity and walked out feeling I got my moneys worth for the ticket. There were no Jar Jar's, no dumb kids, no unattended plot holes in the story, no poo poo and fart jokes, no mothers saying that their place is to be a slave when they have every door open to leave and be free...actually the list goes on but I don't feel like taking 3 hours to write it all when its already been written about so well already.
Oct. 7, 2005, 7:32 p.m. CST
I'm pretty sure they mentioned in the movie that there are more than 30 planets..
Oct. 7, 2005, 7:36 p.m. CST
Oct. 7, 2005, 7:36 p.m. CST
by Gheorghe Zamfir
And we're only living on one planet, think getting on even half a dozen and a hunderd or more moons would probably give you plenty of space. Sci-fi has kind of gotten us used accustomed to such grand scales that we come to think of things like planets and moons, and even a solar system as being small, they're not, these are all still hugely gigantic areas and spaces.
Oct. 7, 2005, 7:38 p.m. CST
I just don't get it. At least hauptman offers a valid reason (for him) why he didn't like the movie. I just don't agree with him. Haupt, I'm not sure what you're looking for in character, but I just can't agree that they were bland, or that the acting was poor. I think all the actors on Firefly/Serenity are great and work much more subtly than typical scifi actors (in a different way than the nice subtleties on BSG). I'll grant you , the tv versions of these characters were far more interesting than the movie versions, because we got a chance to see different sides of them, but the movie had to concentrate more on the plot. As far as dialogue, I 've always loved the Firefly speak. I think it's interesting, funny, rhythmic and even poetic. That's really just a taste thing - some people can get into it, some can't. But I respect your opinion. Thanks for actually stating a valid reason for your dislike. As far as the Simon retcon, I can understand the rationalizations - it just didn't jibe (jive? I always forget) with my knowledge and understanding of the character. It was obvious they had to ramp Simon up for the movie, and that's fine. Just like Mal had to be much harsher than on the show (which was apparently the intention originally, but Fox execs had other ideas).
Oct. 7, 2005, 7:42 p.m. CST
by Gheorghe Zamfir
Haven't seen the movie yet, just going off on something I hazily remember reading in another talkback (just knew the thousand number was off). Thanks for the correction.
Oct. 7, 2005, 7:47 p.m. CST
I said I don't like the fans, nor do I like Whedon himself. I can't judge the movie because- frankly- I don't want to sit in a theater full of Whedonites having geekgasms over this thing. After the way the Buffy fans turned into Whedonite Cultists, I place Whedonites just a half-notch beneath Scientologists, and a tiny millimeter better than radical fundamentalist Christians. I say FUCK Serenity with the same authority in which I, as an antidogmatist, say FUCK Jesus, FUCK Xenu, and FUCK all their rabid, rigid, shove-it-down-your-throat followers. The movie? I don't care about it. I'm not interested at all, and feel about it the same way I feel about communion wafers: It looks like a bland cracker with a lot more meaning attached to it that it really deserves.
Oct. 7, 2005, 7:58 p.m. CST
That's basically my take on it. It can be rationalized, I suppose, but the bottom line is that he needed to do something, and so his character was fiddled with a little bit. Which I'm okay with, I guess.
Oct. 7, 2005, 8:14 p.m. CST
I'm not interested at all, and feel about it the same way I feel about communion wafers: It looks like a bland cracker with a lot more meaning attached to it THAN it really deserves.
Oct. 7, 2005, 8:35 p.m. CST
want more...check these out if you havent already http://www.whedon.info/article.php3?id_article=11129
Oct. 7, 2005, 8:42 p.m. CST
Yeesh, man. That's a good-lookin' cast. An observation: looks like Morena Baccarin got that mole of hers removed (or it was covered with liberal amounts of makeup). To make it in Hollywood, eh?
Oct. 7, 2005, 8:50 p.m. CST
Well, except for the last three minutes involving Simon and Jayne. River's "I can kill you with my brain" line was priceless. It wasn't as bad as the Shindig episode, but it came close. Those are the only two episodes I haven't dug so far. Anyone notice how those two episodes, besides being boring, had a bit of a "cheap" look to them? Or is it just me? Oh, and that chick that "married" Mal was gorramed hot, couldn't act for spit, but hot.
Oct. 7, 2005, 8:58 p.m. CST
You are positively dogmatasticalicious.
Oct. 7, 2005, 9:01 p.m. CST
I didn’t want to add to this lunacy, but I can’t take it any longer. M going to swear for the first time on this site; it’s got that bad, so beware! I have to agree with oisin5199. Who are the jerks here again? People don’t like it and have SEEN it, OK… Everyone else who has not watched the film is slating the browncoats and whedonites for being rude and aggressive; yet all I read is "fuck Serenity" Whedon isn't even a spec on Lucas' ass" etc! (I'm pretty sure that the people saying the latter were on this site slating Lucas not so long ago!) People just like to complain about things they don’t understand and they like even more to be jealous of directors they think might replace their current faves! Get over it. The mods here are even to blame slightly due to their "browncoats scare me" idiocy in some respect! I went into the film not wanting it to be better than EPIII (Lucas is the person who made me want to direct film), but FUCK ME was it soooooo much better than ROTS that it wasn't even a "speck on that films ass". I'm a massive Whedon fan, but an even bigger Lucas fan, until yesterday evening that is (when I saw the film), when I finally realised that Whedon is the best in the biz atm (already the best in TV) and probably will be for a long time to come. That is if people give the guy a friggin chance! I also hate when people bring religion into these topics and blaspheme. You should respect other people opinions, but if you don’t, well then don’t be rude about it and bring in religion for no reason! That’s all.
Oct. 7, 2005, 9:05 p.m. CST
number thing outburst;)
Oct. 7, 2005, 9:29 p.m. CST
by I Dunno
You're Is this fucking anti-Star Wars thing going to go one forever? 20 years from now when another sci-fi movie you're devoted to flops, are you going to scream to whoever will listen "B-b-b-ut Star Wars had teddy bears and plot holes that aren't really plot holes but I think they're plot holes because I was too bored to pay attention, so there". Get the fuck over it. Star Wars retired, it's over. There's a clone wars cartoon and maybe a live action tv show and that's all. No more films. The evil nightmare that Lucas bestowed upon you is over. Pick up the pieces and move on. You people are just so hostile over nothing. Star Wars isn't even sci-fi anyway. If it's sci-fi you want, Star Trek TNG and DS9 are on Spike, watch that. It might not be as gritty and the characters' banter might not be the oh-so-clever cutsy sniping that was on Firelfy but the average TNG episode has a better story than Serenity and DS9 is better in every way than anything Firefly ever came up with. So calm yourselves and just leave SW alone, it's finished.
Oct. 7, 2005, 9:37 p.m. CST
What does that have to do with anything? And isn't the last half of that post of yours essentially doing the same crap that you've gone off on "Whedonites" for? "They started it," I know.
Oct. 7, 2005, 9:39 p.m. CST
way to justify your existence. And once again, Trek comparisons are fruitless. Firefly was doing something totally different - no bumpy headed aliens, no gleaming ships, but people having to work and survive and flying on dirty, but homey ships where you actually see the bathroom. No colonialist, militaristic Federation imposing their (universalist?) globalist agenda. Whoa, sounded like a Maquis there. Maybe that's why I sympathized with Ensign Ro. That and she could kick anyone's ass on Enterprise. And hot. Now she's grown into a hardened Battlestar admiral. Still hot. Whoa, tangent. Sorry, where was I? Oh yeah, you suck! I can't remember who and what movie you like, but you know who you are. I almost forgot I was on an AICN talkback.
Oct. 7, 2005, 9:42 p.m. CST
It wasn't about Firefly/Serenity against anything.... it was more about people hating against the fans for no reason. Also, we're comparing films not TV series (IMO firefly is better than both TNG and DS9) and yes I think Wrath of Khan is a very good film (I predict you might bring it up), but IMO not a notch on Serenity. If you've seen both and prefer Trek 2, then good for you and fair enough... I really dont mind, nor care... but why all the hate! You even reply with some kind of anger that doesn't need to be channelled in this direction... please let it go! You dont like Firefly/Serenity. FINE. Move on and let people judge for themselves. Why even come into a topic about this film in the first place. Seriously. Why?
Oct. 7, 2005, 9:55 p.m. CST
You are entitled to your opinion, but..........ARE YOU FREAKIN NUTZ!?????????????? I dig the Firefly/Serenity, but dang.
Oct. 7, 2005, 10 p.m. CST
Sorry but I didn't really get into TNG that much... I liked it, but yes I would take Firefly over TNG. IMO quality over quantity. It doesn't make me nuts... it just makes my opinion, as you stated!
Oct. 7, 2005, 10 p.m. CST
Oct. 7, 2005, 10:02 p.m. CST
I thought I'd explain myself... you seemed like you wanted to know:)
Oct. 7, 2005, 10:10 p.m. CST
I think the message of Serenity/Firefly is more in line with my way of thinking. To me the federation seem like an all knowing, always right and correct army force. The reason my the browncoats fought in Firefly was to be independent and have the right to make their own mistakes and wat of life. I'm all for diplomacy, that's why I like Firefly... when diplomacy is used in the wrong way (even if it is to make the world a better place - ala The Aliance and IMOP the federation) it becomes more of a dictatorship... just my opinion, not fact!
Oct. 7, 2005, 10:41 p.m. CST
by Tubbs Tattsyrup
was not all knowing, always right, always correct. They thought they were, but they weren't. And it was acknowleged on the show, that's the whole reason the Maquis was brought in. They may have been seen as "terrorists" or whatever but they made a lot of decent points about how the Federation just absorbs planets into itself and turns it into a Federation happy-clappy Wunderwelt with perhaps little consideration to the actual inhabitants. A lot like Firefly/Serenity's Alliance and a lot like the USA (at times). It's also these sorts of (ambiguous, in terms of right/wrong) politics and real-world comparisons that make me prefer DS9 over either TNG or Firefly. Cheers.
Oct. 7, 2005, 11:17 p.m. CST
by I Dunno
I did. I just don't think it was the genius that some people say it was. As for Star Trek, it's true that the Federation was a self righteous, goodie two shoes" kind of organization but that fact became a major plot point in the later episodes and was the central theme of DS9, which was darker and the characters shadier than anything I've seen in the 7 or so Firefly episodes I've watched.
Oct. 8, 2005, 12:24 a.m. CST
I hope it's clear I'm not disparaging Trek (at least not the good shows - pre-Voyager that is), just pointing out the political differences with Firefly. I think it's impossible to analyze Trek outside of the political context each show was produced in - Roddenberry had a very naive, optimistic view about a token multicultural US preaching tolerance but ready to back it up with some fisticuffs. TNG coincided with the fall of communism and, once again, the optimism of new frontiers (and I have to say, the show kept me going through some dark years after college, so I'm not about to diss TNG). After the aforementioned trend of the Maquis questioning Trek canon, DS9 was the darkest, but most interesting and morally ambiguous, with the awkwardness of postcolonialism and the rise of religious fanaticism. Voyager, I'm not sure about it, but as I said before, they certainly dropped the ball with their potential for a strong Maquis storyline. Parallels continued with the (mostly) abortion that was Enterprise (the show) - you had this strange combination of naivete about exploration and spreading a kind of democracy, distrust and resentment towards the Vulcans (the UN?) and post 9/11 cynicism. Archer (Bush) was a weaker and more annoying Kirk, imo. The writers claimed they weren't consciously drawing parallels, but sometimes you just couldn't deny it - the Xindi plot and 9/11, the search for a weapon(s) of mass destruction, the embassy bombing, the whole Vulcan freedom fighters in the desert thing. I remember even some lines practically had current political talking points. Maybe the parallel was too hamfisted, and people had lost interest, so ultimately it failed. As much as I've eaten up most things Trek, they've always seemed like a corporate product. Albeit sometimes a delicious one, but a product nonetheless. Which is why stuff like Farscape, Firefly and BSG feel fresh. In fact, I think BSG hits the contemporary politics nail on the head in a much more successful way than Enterprise ever did, which is why I think it inherits the Trek relevance. Firefly has plenty of politics going, but it's a different animal, and much more about the survival of individualism. oh well, more late night babbling.
Oct. 8, 2005, 12:33 a.m. CST
Hey kids... Perhaps this has been debated, but I didn't read all of the 4600 posts where people compare all SciFi flicks to each other and then shout call each other names. I just wondered about an actual scene from the movie. While Mal and Simon argue about River going on the job... Mal rolls up his sleeve and Simon gives him an injection of some kind. I don't think it was ever explained. Anyone know what it was supposed to be??? Just curious
Oct. 8, 2005, 12:43 a.m. CST
by Bouncy X
my take is that the injection was some sorta protection from the planet they were landing on, like some sort of inoculation(yes i have NO clue how to spell that). now we didnt see anybody else get it but maybe Mal was the last one needing one and at the same time it showed the audience that he was a doctor or least had a medical type role on the ship. of course its entirely possible there's an actual explanation somewhere that i missed or even in a deleted scene but that's how i saw it.
Oct. 8, 2005, 12:52 a.m. CST
and i liked it...minus the boring half hour in the middle between the safehouse blow out and the arrival at the dead planet. and the AWFUL cgi.
Oct. 8, 2005, 1:06 a.m. CST
$9 mil might not be great, but you know another movie that did ONLY that much in its first weekend? The first Austin Powers movie & look how it did. Only $53 mil at the box office but sold a ton of DVDs, built the audience and had two sequels. Serenity might just be another "little movie that could". (Not a rabid Browncoat but I thought the movie was pretty good. Better than most of the crap out there nowdays)
Oct. 8, 2005, 1:10 a.m. CST
by Nairb The Movie
This show rocked... DUH!
Oct. 8, 2005, 1:11 a.m. CST
by Gheorghe Zamfir
Neat and all, but damn, this Vividas is a really awesome video player.
Oct. 8, 2005, 1:15 a.m. CST
I find most sci-fi to be plodding and boring. Star Trek - way too smug and into itself. DSP - had some conflict but god nothing ever happened. TNG - more banal than the original series. BSG - totally boring and again it takes itself too seriously. Buffy - teeny boppers and demons...yawn. Firefly - funny and amusing characters. Of the bunch only firefly raised my eyebrow and actually amused me. the majority of sci-fi just isn't my thing. I find watching star wars unbearable - it's all so sterile and dry . same goes for lotr trilogy. i just don't think i'm a sci-fi guy. shrug. but i like firefly. go figure.
Oct. 8, 2005, 1:57 a.m. CST
I grew up on the "Holy Trilogy", read every Star Wars book I could find (till the NJO) waited with bated breath for each DS9 episode but lost interest when Voyager was all that was left. When I found Firefly I watched it every friday till it ended, then downloaded it and spread it to my friends who never got a chance. I even watched the 2nd and 3rd seasons of Enterprise and look forward to catching the 4th eventually. nBSG is good, a little slow, but good. Am I broken? Did I somehow miss out on the 'have to hate the rest to love one' seminar? I dont enjoy Voyager, I think TNG suffers from 80s-itis. Xena is mostly fluff but entertaining, Buffy and Angel are a rollercoaster of GREAT and . . . meh. . . But theres none that I hate as much as you guys all seem to hate 90% of everything. The new Star Wars movies are overpolished and underwhelming, but I still walked in each time hoping for a return to form for Lucas, hell, I waited in line outside the Chinese theater this spring for LiningUp.net and gave a hundred radio interviews about the thing as a FAN, even though I didnt enjoy Episodes I or II. I just dont understand the hate guys. . . get over it, let it go, if you dont like it, dont watch it, walk away. Shouting at each other "THIS SUCKS!" just to read someone reply "NO! THAT SUCKS!" over and over is pointless. Enjoy what you can, and fuck the rest, dont let something you dislike take up endless evenings in front of the computer. And no, nothing you can say will change anyones mind.
Oct. 8, 2005, 2:18 a.m. CST
...you never heard anyone complain in Star Wars that it'd been months since they'd had anything between their legs that wasn't powered by batteries. Just kidding. Wait. No I'm not. Serenity r0x0rz and r00lz. BSG? Same. Latter-day star wars? Garbage. Nothing more than CGI fests. George forgot long ago that it's not about the hardware. Ron Moore and Joss Whedon on the other hand could tell these stories on a fucking live stage and they'd still be better than any latter day star wars abortion.
Oct. 8, 2005, 4:38 a.m. CST
People seem to want to put this separatist, individualist stamp on them, and it's just not on the show. The Maquis were a group of people upset about the transference of colony worlds to the Cardassians as part of a political settlement. In other words, their complaint was that they were kicked out of the Federation, and not that they were swallowed up by it. Their violence was designed to kick-start a Federation - Cardassia war that [they hoped] Cardassia would lose badly enough that the border would move again and they'd get to be back in the Federation. So other than one or two throwaway lines of dialogue in the first season of Voyager, where former Maquis members seem to spontaneously forget what their movement was about, we never really saw the core concept of the Federation challenged on Trek. So you do have to concede that Whedon's take on the Federation concept on his show was a neat inversion.
Oct. 8, 2005, 6:21 a.m. CST
It was totally contrived and unoriginal, but decent sci-fi...I guess as a lover of the genre, I'll watch this eventually, but I sure won't get off my ass and see it at the theatre.
Oct. 8, 2005, 6:30 a.m. CST
Oct. 8, 2005, 12:42 p.m. CST
I can't have been the only one who recognized "I swallowed a bug."
Oct. 8, 2005, 12:43 p.m. CST
I was blown away by Serenity. Although I watched most episodes of Firefly I wasn't really that taken by the TV series... for some reason I just didn't connect with it as I did with other science fiction shows. Serenity, however, is amazing. I've been trying to recall the last film that left me as energized or enthused about science fiction as a genre, and I reckon that I'd have to go back to perhaps Terminator 2 or even the first couple of Star Wars films. Yes, Serenity really is that good. It's a confident, ballsy swashbuckling romp. Perfect pacing, smart humour, rich characterization, amazing action, truly genuine thrills and spills, and a really involving story - it delivers on all counts, and does it with style and humility. I've been growing tired and disillusioned with modern cinema in recent years, wondering if the quality of the films was perhaps just as good as it had ever been and it was down to me that they no longer seemed to reward and satisfy as they once did. However, Serenity has almost single-handedly restored my faith and renewed my enthusiasm. I'm incredibly glad that I took a chance on Serenity and discovered something really special. Although I expect it to be discovered in a big way via the DVD rental market Serenity is a big screen film, and demands to be seen in a cinema. I can't recommend it highly enough.
Oct. 8, 2005, 12:49 p.m. CST
The "word of mouth" campaign was a sham, just like all the predictions from the Browncoats prior to release. Right now, it looks like the rest of the world has a better chance of saving this series. Hopefully, for the sake of all Firefly and Serenity fans, the projected fan base in the rest of the world wasn't a sham as well (the often quoted DVD sales is also a sham, mind you). The often talked about "buzz" for this movie ended up being the Milli Vanilli of sci-fi. Faked.
Oct. 8, 2005, 12:49 p.m. CST
by Lezbo Milk
That's a shame.
Oct. 8, 2005, 12:51 p.m. CST
by kate Moss
the movie is cool, watched angel, buffy and firefly loved all of them. lover of sci fi in general, serenity doesnt disappoint
Oct. 8, 2005, 12:54 p.m. CST
by I Own You
Wars: Lucas started to take himself and his whole creation too seriously. Trek: will always remain my first love because it got me in to the genre, but seriously lost its way in the last few years. Were there any moments in Episode I or II that made you jump from your seat the way the original Trilogy did? Has there been anything in the last two trek movies or consistently in the last series that made you stand up and cheer? I didn't watch Firefly, my Dad wanted me to see Serenity with him, so I met him at a theater near his home. Having watched this film with no previous spoilers or expectations, I have to say that, yes -- there was some clich
Oct. 8, 2005, 1:01 p.m. CST
Then why are they using this shitty media player? I'd like to watch it too, if I could get this shit to work. I want Quicktime dammit!
Oct. 8, 2005, 1:02 p.m. CST
There is no word on the street. The only people talking about this movie are the few of us who actually saw it. Hell, the amount of discussion going on about this movie is artificially large. The biggest buzz for this movie is in Joss Whedon's arse.
Oct. 8, 2005, 1:06 p.m. CST
by Atticus Finch
and only about 10,000 in front of Into the Blue. I thought all the Browncoats said this movie would have legs. Looks like they've been amputated.
Oct. 8, 2005, 1:13 p.m. CST
Oct. 8, 2005, 1:15 p.m. CST
No, clearly the movie is hiding right now and is going to spring itself on the public next week! NEXT WEEK will be the big week when the legs start running. Look for a $100 million day, next Friday! ;)
Oct. 8, 2005, 1:27 p.m. CST
Why do you want this to fail? What do you get from it? Have you even seen the film? What's the point of you being in this topic? Has a female firefly fan scorned or bullied you in the past? I really want to know. I'm not trying to be rude or upset you, I really am wanting to know.
Oct. 8, 2005, 1:45 p.m. CST
Somebody on another forum said it quite nicely this way >>> Just imagine, at the Universal Studios headquarters, the suits have just learned about the dismal $10.1 million opening weekend and they all jump up and exclaim "LET'S MAKE A SEQUEL!" Trust me when I say that it did NOT happen like that. Do you really think that the suits are going to green-light a sequel after such a shitty opening? Firefly fans are the ONLY ones who want a sequel. I like Firefly too, but be realistic, people! It's not going to happen no matter how badly you want it to happen. Oh, and bashing a movie (Episode III) that made more more in its first DAY of release than Serenity will in its ENTIRE run really does nothing for your argument except make you look like a whiny sissy-boy. Firefly fans have sharply criticized other sci-fi fans for not supporting the genre in the same breath that they shit all over Star Wars. Frakkin' hypocrites...
Oct. 8, 2005, 1:54 p.m. CST
Any geek using the "flop" argument to back up their claims about the shows quality really are fucking idiots. I'm sure they love plenty of films which did nothing at the B.O, but something comes along that they don't like and all of a sudden B.O is the most important thing in the world. Hahaha you fucking idiots. From a non Firefly or Serenity fan.
Oct. 8, 2005, 2:01 p.m. CST
I don't want it to fail outright. I have said so before. I want to see the show return, or see more movies. However, I admit to finding joy in seeing all the bullshit hype for this movie (and all the bashing of Lucas and the prequels) gets its karmic turn. The buzz was faked. Pure and simple. The pompousness of the hardcore fan base deserves this. I strongly believe that you get what you deserve.... and Whedon, the Browncoats, and those who talked smack about Lucas and the prequels got what they deserved. Better karma and Serenity does better at the box office.
Oct. 8, 2005, 2:04 p.m. CST
I agree. Yet, box office take does reflect similarity to other movies. It is Browncoats who keep babbling on about how this is "how Star Wars prequels should have been" or "the new Star Wars." Well, it isn't simply because it didn't touch people in the same way. So, it is nothing like Star Wars... but since your flock keeps pretending like it is, we will continue to mock your numbers based on it.
Oct. 8, 2005, 2:16 p.m. CST
I don't really follow you on that one. But I agree Serenity will never be the new Star Wars but better than the prequels? Maybe. It certainly is in terms of dialogue and performances and plot. I'm a not a firefly fan so I don't think it's that great but at least it's not wooden acting and atrocious dialogue. So Serenity didn't affect as many people as Star Wars, it's hardly a point to gloat about is it?
Oct. 8, 2005, 2:17 p.m. CST
I love what Lucas has done and I will always love the fact that Star Wars made me want to direct, but how can you say that about firefly fans? I hear more bashing of browncoats than they (browncoats) themselves bashing the avid Lucas fan! I think maybe the writers/mods here have (apart from herc) brainwashed you all into thinking that... its a shame and a very silly thing to do! You dont want it to exist? Then fine! But please dont ruin it for the rest of us! Give it a chance. If you liked it, then surely you want either a sequel or another TV show! I can't believe you would take a few people hating on Lucas and turn it into "KILL SERENITY and Whedon, a few hate Lucas, but we hate them all!" To me (listen this bit Quint/Mori)THAT kind of behaviour is a fan that SCARES ME!
Oct. 8, 2005, 2:20 p.m. CST
Idiot or troll? Aha, an idiot troll. Fair enough.
Oct. 8, 2005, 2:22 p.m. CST
Of course you do... because you are a Browncoat. Plus, the bashing happened mostly BEFORE Serenity came out. Since then, many of your kind have crawled into your little holes and shut up. Now is the payback. I certainly don't feel bad for you people. Hell, everytime someone says "Serenity is better than (pick a prequel)" I go right back to the box office numbers for the day and giggle. How good one art is when compared with another is subjective... how much one piece of art makes over another is not. So, you can pretend that Serenity is the greatest thing since sliced bread and I will pretend that Revenge of the Sith is that as well. Then we can both look at the box office for our favorite movies and giggle.
Oct. 8, 2005, 2:25 p.m. CST
Face it. If people HATED star wars that much.. if they HATED Lucas writing that much-they wouldn't have gone to see it. And yet, when you say that Serenity is a better quality product...well.. apparently no one else has reach the point you are at. I like Serenity, but I think the constant Bashing against Lucas and his style turned a lot of lesser hard core fans against the movie. Lucas will be remembered, and his Sextology will be loved by generations: Todays toddler will be writing a book on the great creation of Jar Jar Binks in an acedemic format. Lucas did what he set out to do: Write an epic with symbolism. He folowed the style of acting from the source inspiration: He maintainted the tone because that's what he started with. Wedon did what he wanted to do...write a Sci-Fi western with amusing characters. Time will tell if he succeded or not. Remember Star Trek didn't catch on until after syndication. And it didn't really become ingrained into maintstream culture until Wrath Of Khan.
Oct. 8, 2005, 2:26 p.m. CST
And you got pissed off with some Firefly fans bitching about how bad they were. So now Serenity is tanking you think it's time for payback. Only it's a hollow victory, eh? Because while quality means something B.O means shit.
Oct. 8, 2005, 2:28 p.m. CST
" ill-conceived, ill-executed feature film" yet 87% of the worlds top critics say otherwise.... hmmmm I think maybe i'll make up my own mind (which I did and the film was quality beyond that of anything in recent history - except Star Wars - ANH) but if I had to listen to someone else, it would be the hundreds of critics that said it was a great film! I certainly wouldn't listen to a "scary" anti-firefly nut.
Oct. 8, 2005, 2:29 p.m. CST
That's why Pearl Harbour made millions, while shite like Fast and The Furious gets made, why Titanic is the most successful film of all time. Marketing and spectacle mean more to tha average public than substance. Now that is a very sad situation to be in.
Oct. 8, 2005, 2:31 p.m. CST
I think the hate keeps him alive or something.
Oct. 8, 2005, 2:34 p.m. CST
I friggin hate 90% of you assholes , why couldn't more of you have been nearer to that damn tsunami
Oct. 8, 2005, 2:35 p.m. CST
Fair enough you prefer ROTS... so did one of the mates I took to the cinema with me, but the rest proffered 'Serenity'.... Overall quailty imdb (people that have seen it and fans) and rottentomatoes (the main excpeted critics) thus far proffer 'Serenity'.... deal with it.
Oct. 8, 2005, 2:55 p.m. CST
Oct. 8, 2005, 3:03 p.m. CST
Oct. 8, 2005, 3:08 p.m. CST
by Jack Burton
I plan on buying Serenity the day it hits DVD (assuming it's a Special Edition, not a bare bones gyp version which knowing Universal will be the case. In that case I'll rent). Same goes for Batman Begins and Sith (although this one is more for the kids. Yes, the movie sucked). I'll rent War of the Worlds, Wedding Crashers, and 40 Year old Virgin the day they come out. What's my point? Going to a theater sucks. I used to see at least 1 movie a weekend this time 2 years ago. The experience has gotten so unpleasant I've decided to just wait now. Why waste the money when I know I'm going to be aggravated by the constant light of cell phones while the jackasses text message every 20 seconds,loud side conversations, and general rudeness of my fellow audience members? Truthfully, I know very few people that regularly go to theaters anymore. Most of my friends were avid movie goers and they cite the same reasons for not going as frequently. That is why the box office is down. More and more people are waiting for DVD so that we can see these movies in an environment that is free from the clutter that makes going out to a movie so irritating. We're not watching less movies, if anything we are watching more. We're just waiting until they come home. I'll bet in 10 years time going to a movie theater to see a movie will be a thing of the past. Why will anyone even bother anymore?
Oct. 8, 2005, 3:08 p.m. CST
Apparently you're not a reader then. I'm not a Whedon fan you fucking dumbass
Oct. 8, 2005, 3:23 p.m. CST
Your lumping shit like charmed and Anne Rice with Whedon's stuff. Buffy is a direct reaction to the bullshit Rice comes up with, and most goth/emo kids think buffy's shit anyway. Yeh you don't have to see things to know you won't like them. But to use your korn analogy; would you then think the same about System of a Down or Tool? same kind of bands. But with actual talent. Now it may not be to your taste but you are talking about the quality not wether it's something you like. Oh and namedropping authors makes you look either pretentious or desperate for points.
Oct. 8, 2005, 3:27 p.m. CST
Posting B.O links and attacking a Whedon and his fans on a Whedon talkback is actually trolling. But I'm sure you'll figure it all out one day.
Oct. 8, 2005, 3:35 p.m. CST
But seriousl? you do understand that B.O has NOTHING to do with quality? I assume most real film fans do, so one someone comes along with the same old B.O bullshit they appear to be truly stupid. Unless of course they understand that and are just posting it to get a reaction or be a dick, in which case they are trolling.
Oct. 8, 2005, 3:45 p.m. CST
Glad you cleared it up. Oh and I didn't "try" to stoop to that tactic I got right down there and hit it. For all this talk of intelligence, I'd have to say trolling is probbaly one of the most ignorant things anyone can do.
Oct. 8, 2005, 3:48 p.m. CST
Because you thought I was a Whedonite when I stated clearly that I wasn't. So you either didnt bother to read my post while still talking about me in your posts or you read my post and chose to ignore what I'd actually written. Hmm sounds like the old trolling or idiot conundrum all over again.
Oct. 8, 2005, 3:55 p.m. CST
What claims then? That you are either a troll or an idiot? hell that's all my posts have been; explaining why I picked up on you. Run along then, you can play with the big boys when you're older.
Oct. 8, 2005, 4:24 p.m. CST
Donate to the Serenity relief fund so geeks around the world will get a sequel. I know I want one. That was a good movie.
Oct. 8, 2005, 4:47 p.m. CST
Without money you don't get to make more. Simple. You seem incapable of understanding what I said before (or you refuse to understand it so you can continue to argue the same point). The quality of Serenity or Star Wars is subjective (that means, it is an OPINION, and can never be qualified as proof). If you say "Serenity is better than Star Wars" then you are stating an opinion as an absolute. That makes you an idiot. You cannot state an opinion as an absolute, it makes you sound ridiculous. So, in the argument of which is better, the only thing that matters is ones own point of view. However, when there is a question of which is more popular, then that is easily qualified by the box office. So, you can argue until you are blue in the face about your subjective take on Serenity vs Star Wars (an idiotic argument at best, since the two don't belong in the same category) but I will always have the box office numbers to prove that people care more about seeing Star Wars than Serenity. More fans, more money, more movies, more people affected by the story.
Oct. 8, 2005, 4:52 p.m. CST
The fact that more people are affected by Star Wars then Serenity doesn't validate or invalidate the work itself. Sure a sequel won't happen now but none of it diminishes the film. Popularity is a poor way of judging anything. Justin Timberlake sells more records than Leonard Cohen, popular opinion is meaningless. If you care about popular opinion then B.O means everything, but why would you care about popular opinion?
Oct. 8, 2005, 5:21 p.m. CST
Again, I direct your attention to the following article from MSN: http://tinyurl.com/8h5d3 A few quotes: 1)To begin with, the Sunday numbers are not actual ticket sales but "projections" furnished by Nielsen EDI 2)First, the reported "grosses" are not those of the studios but those of the movie houses. 3)Second, box-office results reflect neither the appeal of the actual movies-nor their quality-but the number of screens on which they are playing and the efficacy of the marketing that drove an audience into the theaters. 4)Third, the "news" of the weekend grosses confuses the feat of buying an audience with that of making a profit. and 5)Finally, and most important, the fixation on box-office grosses obscures the much more lucrative global home-entertainment business, which is the New Hollywood
Oct. 8, 2005, 5:37 p.m. CST
So you prequel fans can step off. Wanna talk box office? If the original trilogy had never been made, TPM would have made about the same amount of money as Serenity. The prequels soaked up the $ because of the brand. It's that simple. Without the brand, no one would have given that dogshit a second thought. As a matter of fact, I would go out on a limb and say that without the brand, if George Lucas had made a movie featuring a character like Jar-Jar Binks, he would have been Ovitzed the fuck out of Hollywood.
Oct. 8, 2005, 6:31 p.m. CST
If you look at ALL my posts here you will see that I say IMO... thats short for "in my opinion" yet you continue to write untruths just to get people to read your nonsense... I will defend myself until you prove yourself right, but that doesn't seem likley to happen anytime soon. Also, I was having a friendly discussion, but you continue with the hate and lies! IMO (yes that means "in my opinion") Serenity is better than ROTS, but not as good as EPIV. Is that okay with you, sir? Really man, what is wrong with you? Do you want to start a fight? I dont... because I'm not a "scary" fan of which the guys who run this site would have you believe exist. AND... I said BO doesn't matter with regards to our convo. Not the state of play in the industry. Get back on your high horse and pick a fight with someone that would get a hard on over it (which I think most haters here would - notice I said "I think"). You call me names, like "iditot" but I dont recall saying the same about you! Not that I don't think you are... just I have more respect for people than to say such a thing. I'll leave you with some quotes from myself from this very topic before your lies (not an opinion, but the truth) infected this place! "we're comparing films not TV series (IMO firefly is better than both TNG and DS9)", " IMO quality over quantity. It doesn't make me nuts... it just makes my opinion, as you stated!", " it becomes more of a dictatorship... just my opinion, not fact!" In conclusion as stated above in one of my quotes Serenty is better than Trek and IMO (in my opinion) its better than ROTS BUT NOT STAR WARS.
Oct. 8, 2005, 6:46 p.m. CST
"In an age when almost any television programme can have a cult following, the passion of hard core fans for the short-lived television programme on which Serenity is based is not necessarily a reliable indicator that this series was worth reviving in film form. However, on the evidence this feature their enthusiasm was entirely justified. This is a huge and pleasant surprise - hip, smart, funny and exciting, topped off by outstanding special effects. Joss Whedon directs his own splendid script with appealingly breezy panache - I’m already looking forward to seeing what he does with the ’Wonder Woman’ film currently on the stocks - and he draws uniformly excellent performances from a cast in which Chiwetel Ejiofor is particularly strong. My overriding thought as the credits rolled was: "Why on earth couldn’t the three most recent Star Wars films have been a third as good as this.?" With its swashbuckling fun and occasional moments of intelligent heroics this film has the qualities which the early instalments in George Lucas’s saga possessed, and which the later ones so horribly lacked. Serenity is a guaranteed crowd pleaser. If you like sci-fi movies it’s unmissable, and even if you don’t, it’s still well worth checking out when it hits cinemas on Friday." From Jonathan Ross probably (IMO) the best film reviewer in the country (being the UK) atm.
Oct. 8, 2005, 6:55 p.m. CST
by I Dunno
To say that the prequels wouldn't be anything without the originals isn't quite fair either. Obviously the prequels were heavily anticipated and had a built in audience but if Episode I was so horrible, why did Episode II make so much? If Episode II was even worse, why did ROTS make almost as much as Episode I? The Matrix was the flavor of the month but while Revolutions opened huge, by the time Revolutions came around, the BO fizzled. Added to that, the fact that for anyone under 25, the original Star Wars means nothing. In fact, I would expect that teens and kids would naturally rebel against what their older borthers or parents find cool, especially with "cooler" movies like "The Matrix" and LOTR. My point is no, BO doesn't mean quality but such huge numbers have to count for something. I wanted Serenity to do well but sometimes it just doesn't happen. As for Trek comparisons, There isn't anything I've seen in Firefly storywise that compares to DS9 but then, DS9 sucked until season 3. My best hope for this franchise is that the SciFi knocks it off with the crappy original movies and picks up Firefly.
Oct. 8, 2005, 6:58 p.m. CST
by I Dunno
Oct. 8, 2005, 7:08 p.m. CST
by kate Moss
you cant compare star wars episode 4,5,6 to anything else. and no serenity is not the successor to star wars. star wars is popular culture, serenity is not. star wars has box office clout, serenity does not. however serenity is better then episodes 1,2 & 3 like watching a trainwreck people had to see those movies. just like matrix reloaded and revolutions. is just a sad indicated that people will watch rubbish, cause they think it'll be good as the orginal and not something new that would open their minds to new possibilties. jar jar my ass
Oct. 8, 2005, 8:30 p.m. CST
Star Wars sucks! Matrix sucks! Star Trek sucks! Whedon is studied seriously in university! When did we geeks become such pretentious FUCKTARDS? Good or bad is SUBJECTIVE and PERSONAL OPINION. If you say a movie sucks or rules, then you are a pretentious FUCKTARD. You can say whether you liked a movie or not, whether it turned your crank or whether it's just not your thing. But for you to say that a movie sucks and that people are idiots for enjoying a movie that sucks, then you are a pretentious FUCKTARD. And if you say that a movie rules and that people are idiots for not enjoying a movie that rules, then you are a pretentious FUCKTARD. Don't be a pretentious FUCKTARD. And don't do drugs...
Oct. 8, 2005, 8:41 p.m. CST
by Barney Hood
...Did someone just say Independence Day was better? Dear oh dear.
Oct. 8, 2005, 8:44 p.m. CST
How ironic that you're getting touchy with Cameron1. "Leave me alone man, I'm just trying to bash the shit out of these brown stains... OOPS I mean Browncoats hehehe." And no, you don't have to "eat shit to know it tastes bad," but considering 83% or so of the people polled on Rotten Tomatoes apparently think shit tastes good, I wonder what you're basing this information on. Then again, that wasn't even my point. YOU were trying to tell ME there were "pop culture references" (of the "here he is, Mr. Universe" variety) in the film when I've seen it and you haven't.
Oct. 8, 2005, 8:47 p.m. CST
It's already looking better than the first one, and it's WAY better than anything Whedon ever did.
Oct. 8, 2005, 9:05 p.m. CST
by Delete Me
"Some guys at MIT are sending us reasons why Captain Picard is better than Captain Kirk." "Hah! They're outta their minds."
Oct. 8, 2005, 9:51 p.m. CST
...my reaction to the film was about the same as Harry's. MEH. I found no reason whatsoever to care about any of these characters or their various dilemmas. Whatever talents Mr. Whedon has (and considering the following he has he must have some), they must exist completely in the domain of serial TV drama. As a writer of films he hasn't shown much talent (and throwing a few jokes into Speed and the Toy Story films doesn't count).
Oct. 9, 2005, 1:05 a.m. CST
by Atticus Finch
Of course Serenity is going to score well in exit polls since just about the only people who have seen it are Brown Pants or whatever they call themselves. That's like going to Fenway Park and polling the people who leave the stadium on who they think the best team in baseball is. Actually, I would have thought Serenity's polling scores would have been higher...must mean some Weedonites didn't think it was all that. And anyone that uses Rotten Tomatoes to defend Serenity must necessarily agree that Epsiode III was a better received film since Episode III has a higher rating than Serenity overall (82% to 81%)and must also agree that the prequels were a success since all three rated "fresh" at RT. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, or so they say. Not that any of that matters, just something to put in your pipe and smoke.
Oct. 9, 2005, 1:19 a.m. CST
I really enjoyed Serenity, but Whedon doesn't really find a way to make Mal's character work. His speaking through Inara momentarily and saying "I don't know what version of you this is" doesn't make Mal's sacrifice of everything any more convincing - it simply isn't believable that Mal would care that much about delivering the message. There is only so much you can fit into an ensemble film and so we'll take on faith that Jayne is along for the ride. But Mal's character is not complex; just a lot of actions that don't add up to motivations. I have a feeling that letting us know that he volunteered to fight is offered as a facet; as is Mal's choice to go where almost no else will to protect his crew by desecrating human bodies. Still, it doesn't add up and that last facet is more Whedon defying the audience then a believable scene. Does Mal really want to live or does Whedon want to impress us? It's in that scene and some scenes in his television work where shock fails to equal believability and Whedon's writing suffers. We'll accept Mal's behavior, but no one in the audience believed that almost any of his crew would be strapping dead friends on the hull of the ship. Anyway, Mal's character ends up being the least successful of all the characters in the film.
Oct. 9, 2005, 1:53 a.m. CST
completely legal: http://download.ifilm.com/qt/portal/2681479_300.mov
Oct. 9, 2005, 2:02 a.m. CST
Great, 'cept I haven't said anything about the quality of Episode III as compared to 'Serenity.' So what point are you trying to make with that one, exactly?
Oct. 9, 2005, 2:19 a.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
Oct. 9, 2005, 2:57 a.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
That after avoiding Fatastic Four all through this summer I have been hounded into seeing it by my seven year old. Apparently it was the summer movie with buzz among the primary set which I neglected to take her to. Took the kids to the dollar house today. Had some friends who said Fantastic Four wasn't as bad as they expected. Now I have to ask them what they expected...boils...blindness? Serenity is certainly better than Fantastic Four. And although there are a couple scenes in Serenity that do look awfully tv flat...there are a lot more in Four. And although Serenity's cast often looked a little small for the big screen...they towered over the Fx cast (yeah, even Chilkis, who walked through the scenes where he wasn't buried in effects)of FF (I mean Alba's gorgeous, but when she also turns in your movie's best performance someone needs to talk to the casting director). Fantastic Four is going to make a lot more money than Serenity. Of course, there are a lot more comic book people than Firefly fans, a lot more brand recognition for the FF than Serenity. But I wonder, after Serenity, and after Riddick, which also wasn't nearly as bad as its box office would suggest, if a certain self deception over the strength of a cult following (for Firefly and Pitch) didn't lead to an ad campaign (and in the case of Serenity an organized drive to mobilize the fanbase to aggressively proselytize the film) as an already existing landmark on the pop culture map in a way that ultimately hurt the films. The trailers for Riddick were certainly self important enough to invite laughter, and the hubris of the Serenity full page newspaper ads, anointing the film "The Next Great Space Adventure" and inviting people to "find out" what audiences who drove miles and waited for hours to get tickets, then wildly applauded every showing "already knew", edged toward the unbelievable. In Serenity's case the ad all but implies the movie is doing you a favor by letting you see it for something as trifling as money. Instead of showcasing the film it showcases the manufactured phenomena surrounding it, and instead of telling something about the film it simply proclaims it an "epic". Serenity probably wouldn't have made big bucks regardless, but being marketed as a phenomena instead of a film sure didn't help.
Oct. 9, 2005, 3:55 a.m. CST
I loved this movie and I think everyone should see it. If you saw it and didn't like it, I respect your opinion. At least you gave it a shot. If you didn't see the movie and talk shit about it, you have made everyrhing Kevin Smith has ever said about the Internet true. And you suck. And I hate you. As a side note, the only person I've ever seen as dedicated to the project s/he was involved in as the Firefly cast and crew is Robert Englund. Maybe the love that Robert seems to have for NoES made me believe that the Firefly folk really loved the show. There's just somethin' about honest folk that seems so.... honest.
Oct. 9, 2005, 3:55 a.m. CST
Take this as a big ending for Firefly (which, honestly now, it probably is) and scene 1 episode 1 of "Firefly" is about Mal losing his faith. In "Serentiy" he gets it back and finds something to believe in. Thats why his actions are a little random, but it makes up for that big loss at Serenity valley all those years ago. I think. Anyway, "Sith" rules and "Serenity" was pretty damn good too.
Oct. 9, 2005, 3:56 a.m. CST
When Episode I came out, The Matrix pissed all over it. When Episode II came out, Spider-man and Lord of the Rings The Two Towers pissed all over it. Now when all the dust settles after 2005, Serenity, Batman Begins, King Kong, and Narnia will all piss all over Star Wars III. Sorry to say this to all you Star Wars prequels fans but you lose HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA LOOOOOOOOSER!!!!
Oct. 9, 2005, 4:28 a.m. CST
by Lone Fox
The Matrix was shit plagearism on a massive scale (still loving those bullet time shots aren't you fuckwad) plus it was a completely different genre. And still with the LOTR comparisons... you're 3 years late rants really aren't timeless despite your obvious unawareness of the fact. The most uninvolving, bad SFX, gay subtexted trilogy I've ever seen (this is probably why you like it in all honesty) (gay jokes? Surely they got boring about, oh... 3 years ago?) Uh, the rest of your post was so retarded (particularly considering Episode 3 hasn't been in cinemas for months) that all I can say is meh. Quiet while the grown ups talk. Heh it really will be quiet.
Oct. 9, 2005, 6:39 a.m. CST
I'm sorry. I really am. I know it's lame to root against a sci-fi film, and a good one at that. Sorry, but maybe if there wasn't so much hype, stories and posts about this film was over the last year to the point that I was sick of it before it came out I wouldn't be rooting for it to fail so much.
Oct. 9, 2005, 8:04 a.m. CST
by Atticus Finch
I wasn't addressing you personally, just pointing that out for people in general. Because its true.
Oct. 9, 2005, 8:06 a.m. CST
by Atticus Finch
HA HA HA HA HA...the joke is on them.
Oct. 9, 2005, 8:12 a.m. CST
"I'm sorry. I really am. I know it's lame to root against a sci-fi film, and a good one at that. Sorry, but maybe if there wasn't so much hype, stories and posts about this film was over the last year to the point that I was sick of it before it came out I wouldn't be rooting for it to fail so much." - Some Imbecille
Oct. 9, 2005, 8:51 a.m. CST
Have you even read any of this topic? Really, have you? 85% of it is full of what you just said and people like you bashing... why do we need more people to say it? The film is a critical success and thats OK by me. People wont watch it? Well its their loss. Have you seen it? Obviously not, so why not take a look maybe you'll like it, mayebe not but at least you have then the right to judge. Your call. With regards to marketing, the film was well marketed due to Universal wanting it to succeed (obviously) and because they liked what they saw and thought people should watch it. Note to editors! Can we stop this now?... look what you have created! By saying that browncoats are "scary" you've created "scary" anti-browncoat haters.... I think you should be happy with yourself people (haters and Quint/Mori), you've probably helped make one of the best sci-fi films of all time fail at the B.O. Isn't that enough?
Oct. 9, 2005, 9:03 a.m. CST
by I Dunno
That's quite an achievement.
Oct. 9, 2005, 9:38 a.m. CST
Let me use a geek metaphor for you guys (editors) of which you might understand…. Like when Spider-man used his powers for his own personal greed, of which indirectly got his uncle shot, you too have used you power for your own selfish means. Remember Uncle Ben’s words “With great power comes great responsibility”. Your responsibility is to be unbiased and base your opinions on fact and not to judge the fans, but rather ONLY the film itself. You’ve failed in you geek/nerd (which one are you guy’s again?) to bring an unbiased and balanced review to the table with regards to Serenity and have in turn indirectly killed the future franchise that Joss Whedon worked so hard to establish for us. He entertained us with Serenity, but it looks like that will be the final time we see the crew and the people we have grown to love in any shape or form again. Well done. You’ve managed to reach beyond your means. I hope you’re all very happy with yourselves.
Oct. 9, 2005, 9:44 a.m. CST
Seriously, Harry needs to bring in a no serenity policy on this site becuase it seems that nearly every talkback eventually turns into a fucking debate about a mediocre movie. I can appreciate that some people like the film and thats all fine and well but 99% of these browncocks just can't let it fucking lie. I mean Star Wars fans are passionate about their franchise as are trekkies, LOTR fans and Matrix fans but Serenity fans are just taking it to a whole new level; so much so that it's becoming disconcering. Face it serenity fans, alot of people don't like a movie you love. You won't change anyones mind so just give it a rest will ya?
Oct. 9, 2005, 9:54 a.m. CST
I guess you've seen is then? So in your opinion its a "mediocre" movie, because thats not what I've read and judged for myself. "disconcering" (as you spell it)? How so? Whats disconcerting (how I spell it) is how many of you haven't seen it and yell "mediocre" its "crap" they're all "brownshits" etc... Fans are fans... I dont think I've seen a Firefly fan wedding, yet I'm sure there have been Trek and Star Wars fan weddings... THATS A WHOLE NEW LEVEL and THATS disconcerting!
Oct. 9, 2005, 10:02 a.m. CST
You're taking it to the next level my friend. It's people like you, that simply won't give it a rest, that just piss off everyone and give other fans of you fave flick a bad rep, just like trek weddings. I have seen your movie and i have seen the tv show and quite frankly it'd be original if it wasn't a complete rip off of 2 anime franchises. Personally i don't give a shit if you like it or not, but the fucking attitude that people like you display because someone has the audacity to NOT like something you do is not only childish but plain friggin' ignorant. Most of the serenity naysayers on here only keep coming back because over-zelous fans like yourself keep stoking the fire by making controversial posts to simply ignite a flame war. As for your 'letter to the editors' i find it highly amusing that someone can blame negative press from a handful of people for 'killing a franchise' when you and countless other fans keep citing RT as being full of glowing reviews. Please, get over yourself and face facts, your show isn't coming back and you can't make people like a movie...
Oct. 9, 2005, 10:08 a.m. CST
Because most browncoats can't attract members of the opposite sex; or the same sex if that floats their boat. At least the hardcore Trekkies get some kind of sexual relief...
Oct. 9, 2005, 10:11 a.m. CST
But we already knew you were a worm before you did that.
Oct. 9, 2005, 10:16 a.m. CST
I hear you but I don't think he pulls it off. Much more successful is the Operative, who is distinctly creepy. I would have liked to have seen the Operative put the tape in at the end and say "I'd like to see a world without sin." Whedon is definitely on the money that there are people in the world who truly believe what they're doing on both extremes of the spectrum. And sometimes those extremes end up having the same goals - witness the extreme right and left joining together in some legal cases in the last few years. It would have been believable that after seeing the tape, that the Operative himself would have transmitted it. It would have been more satisfying than his decision to not kill Mal and his crew, which was actually a little less believable for a guy who killed River's maker... for really very little gain or result.
Oct. 9, 2005, 10:19 a.m. CST
Negative press? I mean really has there been any? Look to rottentomatoes and the you'll see only 26 out of 136 or so negative reviews... I dont blame negative reviews on them either! (I think they liked it, didn't they?) I blame bad word of mouth on their reviews! If they say (and start with) in their reviews fans are rabid "scary" insane freaks, then that means people wont want to become fans IMO! People like YOU sometimes scare me, but I wont judge Star Wars on it or even mention it in a review! Come on now, wouldn't you protect a film you like that has been critically acclaimed and reviewed well only for it to fail and have people like you state it as "mediocre"? If thats your opinion and you've seen it, then fine I except that. But you seemed to state it as fact in your post, which amused me a little, because I thought you hadn't seen it (plus its an opinion not fact). I apologise if I offended you, that wasn't my intention. I merely want to state my OWN point of view and open the eyes of people that refuse to see it. Scary fans or no... this film is good IMO (and critically) so go watch and judge for yourselves... dont worry people you wont turn into me or an insane fan. REALLY. The medium of film doesn't have that much of an effect on normal people....
Oct. 9, 2005, 10:29 a.m. CST
SamFisher wrote: "Because most browncoats can't attract members of the opposite sex; or the same sex if that floats their boat. At least the hardcore Trekkies get some kind of sexual relief..." Congrats for lowering the tone.... I MAY be ugly, but I wouldn't say ALL fans of firefly are ugly, just as I wouldn't say all trek, BG or SW fans are ugly (btw I'm a massive SW fan too). Thats a very silly thing to say and insulting someones ability to attract members of the opposite sex is the lowest form of wit and humour! PS I admit that the spelling thing was low...
Oct. 9, 2005, 10:31 a.m. CST
I wouldn't give a shit. Really, i wouldn't lose a single wink of sleep nor would i let the fact be the first and foremost thing on my mind 24/7. There are fans of all movies that go that extra length for their fave flick but there has to be a line drawn firmly as to how far you're willing to go else you're just a sheep. I'm no great lover of the SW prequels and i'm not hot on the matrix sequels either but everytime a new franchise comes along it's the same thing, someone gets over protective of a movie. I'd be willing to bet that Serenity would have had a better BO take had the 'fans' of the show not taken it to extreme levels of devotion. To be perfectly honest the many OTT posts made by 'browncoats' certainly sullied any opinion i'd have of the film BEFORE i saw it though i'd still draw the same conclusion about the movie had people not gone overboard. My point is, the bad word of mouth hasn't come from the naysayers rather people have been put off by the almost rabid reactions the fans have had over it. I'm surprised there aren't organised lynchings outside theatres for people who disliked the movie. Seriously, it's becoming a tiring routine on AICN having to skip the serenity posts. I'm glad you've got a movie to love but just leave it at that, honestly people, if you stopped harping on about it for a little while you wouldn't read any negative comments about Serenity. Give it a try...it'll be great for us all.
Oct. 9, 2005, 10:33 a.m. CST
Give the serenity/whedon stuff a rest for a while eh Herc?
Oct. 9, 2005, 10:36 a.m. CST
I never said it had many negative reviews, i meant it had a handful of negative reviews but the overall opinion of people, like on RT, was that it was positive. Blaming one or two people for the movies poor take when the reviews on RT are mostly good is a waste of time. Like i said before, the problem lies elsewhere.
Oct. 9, 2005, 10:37 a.m. CST
" if you stopped harping on about it for a little while you wouldn't read any negative comments about Serenity. Give it a try...it'll be great for us all." So you admit that people are giving out negative vibes for this reason? THATS SCARY! Also, I'm not upset at people not liking once they've seen it (as I've said SOOO many times) but rather for the above comment you made! I haven't read any browncoat rants, but they can't have deserved such stupidity as people not liking it JUST because of them! btw I still blame the editors here for most of that... You've just admitted what I feared Sam. Its a shame this film will fail for that reason:(
Oct. 9, 2005, 10:45 a.m. CST
I'm not talking about negative reviews, i'm talking about the negative comments on these very talkbacks that irk the fans so much. You're quite happy to accept that if people don't like it that's fine, but alot of people don't like having something shoved down their throat repeatedly. Near enough every major talkback on this site in recent weeks has turned into a serenity debate and i can promise that it's a serenity fan that pipes up first; everyone else just jumps in to piss them off, face it, that's a major pastime for many people who post on these threads. The point i was making for you my friend, was that if the serenity fans gave it a rest, just for a little while to see how it goes, then you'd not be inclined to respond to the negative posts that upset you all so much. It's obvious that you won't be swayed from your opinion of the movie any more than i will be convinced i like it; what i'm saying is give it a rest and just turn the other cheek. Oh and i standby my statement that many people would be put off simply by 'fan reaction'..we'll agree to disagree but how else can you explain such poor takings when you point out the positive reviews on RT?
Oct. 9, 2005, 10:53 a.m. CST
" people would be put off simply by 'fan reaction'..we'll agree to disagree but how else can you explain such poor takings when you point out the positive reviews on RT?" Thats what I mean! Its a shame if this is true, but I think people are morons if they cant look past that and "turn the other cheek" as you aptly stated! If people watch the film and judge for themselves then surely people will then have a VALID opinion about what they think of the film!? Anyways, it was nice having this discussion with you, but I really have to eat:) Good talking with you.
Oct. 9, 2005, 11:44 a.m. CST
If buffy/angel was VTM based you'd have a hell of alot better shows. I'd go for cyberpunk/gothic vampire clan wars than some blonde streak of piss 'wrestlemania' fighting guys in bad makeup. Retract that statement, damn it!
Oct. 9, 2005, 12:29 p.m. CST
No offense, mate, but these TalkBack debates don't happen just because people don't like the movie. For my part, I don't give a shit. It's the ignorant, namecalling bullcrap that chaps my ass, personally. And you probably don't care, but for what it's worth, there that is.
Oct. 9, 2005, 1 p.m. CST
Thanks man, but you owe me nothing... even if you did, I wouldn't take it from you as O dont except things from strangers. You need everything you can get anyways:) Also, I didn't say the critics should think for you (btw I posted that rottentomatoes SW stuff here on ROTS review, I think). I think that the majority say its good, therefore the majority of us will find in entertaining/good etc. And hang on a sec... why watch nearly all of his TV stuff if you dont like it? Either you're telling porkies or you're a closet fan? Which is it? And dont say "because I can use stuff against you" or "so I shouldn't watch Serenity" With regards to the old sci-fi SW reviews... people are more excepting of sci-fi nowadays and the critics that are now reviewing SW probably grew up on Star Wars (I did). Which, IMO, means they are holding Serenity upto the standards of SW (ANH)... wow good call! Thanks for proving that for me! Enough now. I can't reply to people like you anymore. You scare me. Anyways... you watched and didn't like. Well done. But why try and make others thing the same. Why even come into this thread. REALLY. WHY!?
Oct. 9, 2005, 2 p.m. CST
by Atticus Finch
Serenity is a bomb. It dropped all the way to 9th and fell 51% from last weekend, the highest drop of any film in the top 10 (including Into the Blue). That's pretty sad. I thought it would at least be in front of Waiting. By the way, I did see it, and its getting pretty much what it deserves.
Oct. 9, 2005, 2:04 p.m. CST
That's a slightly worse than average second-weekend fall, but not spectacularly bad. The first nine minutes look good, so I will judge the quality of the film when I see it on DVD. But claims that word-of-mouth would lead to box office results have been dashed.
Oct. 9, 2005, 3:48 p.m. CST
You shame your namesake...
Oct. 9, 2005, 3:57 p.m. CST
2nd to 9th. HAH!
Oct. 9, 2005, 4:08 p.m. CST
Oct. 9, 2005, 4:23 p.m. CST
by I Dunno
Who cares if the Browncoats are obnoxious. If you read this site then you should not be happy about a genre film doing as badly as this did. Unless you're HAPPY that they're going to churn out more movies like Flightplan and may never greenlight another space movie again that isn't based on a comic book. Twats.
Oct. 9, 2005, 4:48 p.m. CST
by Gheorghe Zamfir
9th for the weekend, just FYI.
Oct. 9, 2005, 4:59 p.m. CST
by Atticus Finch
How? By telling the truth?
Oct. 9, 2005, 5:16 p.m. CST
by Greased Deaf Guy
despite bold declarations, the movie didn't open #1, didn't draw from word of mouth and hasn't shown longevity. face it, it's going to struggle to break even just on production costs...even with international and dvd sales. that's not counting marketing, distribution and dvd processing costs. even if it were to break even it's still a flop considering all the hype some of these people have been giving it.
Oct. 9, 2005, 5:36 p.m. CST
by Dudley Smith
The BO figures say so.
Oct. 9, 2005, 5:37 p.m. CST
by Dudley Smith
How shit was my spelling in that last post?
Oct. 9, 2005, 7:28 p.m. CST
by Greased Deaf Guy
it was shit.
Oct. 9, 2005, 8:29 p.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
Wow. I don't know if you simply didn't like it, knew anything about the source material, don't like that kind of movie, whatever, but a Best Picture/Best Director/Best Supporting Actress, etc. win at the Oscars still says something. No, they don't always choose the best film (in 1996, that would be "Fargo"), and Minghella followed "Patient" up with the brilliant "Talented Mr. Ripley," but simply because you didn't like a critically praised movie once (as the present evidence suggests) doesn't mean you can't trust the critics.
Oct. 9, 2005, 10:02 p.m. CST
Ahhh. Firefly doesn't have box office legs, I guess. So I change my mind. It sucks. Wallace and Gromit, which cost more to make and took a looooong time to create, only made 16 million. A disappointing number. W&G sucks, too. My opinions are based entirely on the box office.
Oct. 9, 2005, 10:09 p.m. CST
It's great fun coming to AICN to read about Firefly and Serenity and to find asshats posting about Brownpants and the like. I applaud all of you who take the time to let us fans know how much you care, even on a topic you don't care about. The fact that y'all go to these lengths to insult us despite your disinterest means a lot to me. So, thanks.
Oct. 9, 2005, 11:02 p.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
Let's not start a flame war, but Jesus Christ is that somewhat juvenile. Best Adapted Screenplay award nomination (based on a highly acclaimed Highsmith novel, by the way) as well as for Best Supporting Actor, Costumes and Music. Those last two are, of course, no indication of quality to the quality of the film outside of a technical standpoint, but it still goes to show that somebody was caring. Oh, and that's another critically acclaimed film. Here is a work of art about what it is like to be in purgatory, digging yourself deeper and deeper until you lack a soul, even hurting the ones you love. If that murder on the boat scene doesn't get to you, or the final Peter Smith-Kingsley death sounds cut with the mirrors, I still hold out hope that you like mature films. I'm not calling your taste immature, because I don't know what you like. Tell me. Top 20. Right now. The film pulls off the rare feat of not only grasping the nuances of 1950s life (both in America and Europe) but actually making us care deeply for a murderer (and not in that "Friday the 13"-"Serial Mom" way either). My God, join me in a conversation, not a verbal dispute.
Oct. 9, 2005, 11:03 p.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
Whoops. Sorry about that grammatical slip-up.
Oct. 9, 2005, 11:36 p.m. CST
To paraphrase the immortal Jayne Cobb, you people are starting to damage my calm! More box office bullshit, more Browncoat bashing, more arguments about what constitutes a good film (critics, box office or fans). I'm a huge fan of Firefly and Serenity, but I'm done. I'm tired of defending a good movie from juvenile assholes who just want to feel superior to something. Sam Fisher says if someone hated a film he loved he wouldn't give a shit. But apparently he, and many others, care if someone loves a film they hate (even though most probably haven't seen it). When will you people grow the fuck up?! If anything has hurt interest in the film, it's you people who say the film's supporters are hurting it, not the film's supporters. So you got your way. Fine. Enjoy your 15 minutes as king of the mountain before you continue your lonely lives. Though I'm fully behind Herc's interest in posting Firefly/Serenity or Buffy threads, I'm looking forward to some quietness on the Serenity front. We got our Big Damn Movie, I will own the DVD(s) and be in line for the sequel. But I've had enough of this.
Oct. 10, 2005, 12:24 a.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
...of one. It was made in France in 2002 and I saw it a couple weeks ago by random rent. Bloody Mallory is Buffy the Vampire Slayer if it had been turned into a live action anime directed by Roger Vadim and produced by the Shaw Brothers. Mallory became a demon killer on her wedding night, and her demon killing team includes a little mute telepathic girl with crazy blue hair and a six and a half foot tall transvestite. And they have to rescue a Pope who is also the meanest man in the world from a female vampire who somehow escaped from Kekko Mask
Oct. 10, 2005, 12:31 a.m. CST
Oct. 10, 2005, 6:05 a.m. CST
I said i hated the fucking stupidity of some people that lash out at those who don't like their movie, for its lack of success. Let's get something straight here once and for all, it's not the fact we dislike your movie that gets you all worked up, no, it's the fact that your movie is nowhere near as succesful that many of you hyperactive fans suggested it would be; the browncoats were the people months back making bold claims that serenity would clean up at the BO, it was the same people who made bold claims that it would be the return of the TV show and a string of sequel movies. It's only natural to feel a little daft when your bold statements are proven wrong but seriously, get over it and enjoy what you've got...which is 14 episodes and a movie..what more could you ask for?
Oct. 10, 2005, 8:01 a.m. CST
The movie bombed...again. Last Monday I read in so many posts about how word of mouth would carry this movie to a strong 2nd week. Well, it lost 50% of its audience, so apparently the word didn't get out. Can we finally send this movie to DVD and move on? It was a mediocre TV show that had some snappy Joss Whedon dialogue, but that's it. The specia effects were ok, the storyline was ok, the dialogue was ok and the action was below average. It was a B movie, with bwtter production value than something that we usually see go straight to DVD and pay cable channels. Just let it go browncoats, let it go.
Oct. 10, 2005, 8:20 a.m. CST
in other words: judging a film by it's box office is an invalid judge of it's merits. SERENITY isn't going to be "the next big thing", and i doubt there will be a sequel, but it was still a ripping good sci-fi yarn and well worth your time. once you'll have gotten past hating it for no discernable reason and give it a change (perhaps on DVD), then you'll realize how cool it actaully was, and how you missed it......................
Oct. 10, 2005, 8:57 a.m. CST
Tanked all the way down to number 9. Whedon, stick to your T.V. shows and stay out of the movie industry.
Oct. 10, 2005, 9:09 a.m. CST
apples and oranges. I like both apples and oranges. They're tasty. Yum. I think I'll go and get one right now. Or maybe taffee. I love taffee. Mmmmmmmm.
Oct. 10, 2005, 9:33 a.m. CST
Ummm, no, it really isn't. I expected 'Serenity' to be crap at the box office (although I honestly thought that "crap" meant it would at least stagger its way across the $30 million-dollar line) and, again, I don't care if people don't like it. What I've been getting my knickers in a twist about are the people who treat other people like dirt because of it; take a look at all the smarmy douchebags posting sarcastic comments about "legs" (variations on "the third week's when the legs will come, for sure" ad nauseum). Film geeks cannibalize one another simply because they've got nothing else to do, and I'm fucking sick of it. Even if you don't agree with the expression of hostility by people like oisin and myself, you should at least be able to see where it's coming from.
Oct. 10, 2005, 9:43 a.m. CST
No one is saying the BO takings confirm wether a movie is good or bad, well one or two people are but thats them..the point i'm making is that Serenity hasn't done well for one simple reason, it simply isn't everyones cup of tea. Contrary to popular belief, space sci-fi movies aren't easy to market to your average cinema goer and most of the ones that do well are part of an already succesful franchise, have a top rate director attatched, a major star etc. I'm sorry to burst your bubble but Serenity has NONE of those attributes to help lure people to theatres, good reviews or no. The fan base, while exceptionally loyal, is simply not as large as say Trek which is why a poor Trek film like nemesis can still make a profit while being total crap. The 'malfunction' that's going on here, is that a good deal of Serenity fans are unhappy that their fave franchise has not been embraced by the movie going community and what's more ludicrous is the 'SURPRISE' you are all showing at this being the case. The films lack of success has nothing, NOTHING to do with anyone who 'bashes' the movie on these forums because, let's face it, if Talkback responses had any effect whatsoever a great deal of films would NEVER be made and to project the blame onto the naysayers on these pages is just childish. You've already pointed out that Rotten Tomatoes is full of positive vibe about this picture; contraty to belief of some people AICN is NOT the final word in movies. It's time that you faced facts and come to terms with the upsetting reality of your situation, the prospects of a sequel are slim to none and the likelyhood of a return to TV is dead too. I'm not taking any pleasure in saying that, i'm sure you love the film and the characters, but that's just the way it is and no amount of arguing with people on here or anywhere else is going to change the reality of the situaion.
Oct. 10, 2005, 9:54 a.m. CST
I have no doubt that the hostility being shown towards this film is probably annoying, but then, whats new about Hostility on these talkbacks? Nearly every movie that gets a mention on here gets torn to shreds by a number of people who have an unexplained hatred of (insert actor/director/franchise name here). It happens on EVERY single talkback, least the ones i read anyway, which is most of em. In all honesty mate, and i'm not being funny with you, if you want to do Serenity a favour don't drop yourself to the levels of people who are simply goading you into a flame war. Thats not to say that people are wrong for expressing their true opinions provided thats what they are; true opinions of people who've seen it. People can blame Harry and Mori all they like for their negative vibes about this project BUT if they really wanted to snub the film they'd simply NOT cover it period and inform Herc of their decision too. The time for bickering is over...enjoy what you've got and be proud of it. It might be the final nail for the franchise but hey, shit stinks, get on with life. I didn't really like the show or the movie but i wish no one ill for their love of it. I just get concerned when people take their 'love' to a whole new level.
Oct. 10, 2005, 10:12 a.m. CST
I see what you're saying and it's probably a spoonful of necessary medecine but again, I don't care if people don't like it; I'm having a hard time telling whether or not you still think that. While I'm wary of certain negative reviews, the stuff I'm reacting to is the direct attacks on fans. It's cool not to like what other people like, but, in my opinion anyway, it's not cool to be a dick about it.`
Oct. 10, 2005, 10:31 a.m. CST
I know what you're saying about the ludicrous nature of people blaming Harry and Moriarty on this film's poor B.O. showing; those people, I think, are a touch paranoid (moreso than me in any case). If Moriarty and Harry cost 'Serenity' any money at all, I'd say it was less than $100. People just weren't interested in the film and (like I said earlier) I can't say I'd blame them if I were in their shoes. I visit these types of websites so I have my "ear to the ground," so to speak, but people who are only peripherally-interested in movies don't have a lot of use for what looks at a distance like a cheap Star Wars clone with no recognizable stars, no immediately identifiable zeitgeist, and no bellydancing Jessica Albas. That's just the way it is. And (not SAYING this proves it's good, so back off trolls) if an 83% on the Tomat-O-Meter isn't going to prompt an audience into showing up for the film (although most people probably only see one or two of those reviews), I don't really know what will.
Oct. 10, 2005, 10:33 a.m. CST
Once again, the only 'lashing out' I've seen is from the haters. I don't recall fans being assholes to someone because they didn't like the movie. More often, it's what Ribbons said, being pissed off at people who are making fun of them for no reason. These people who are tired of "having their faces shoved in it". Well, excuse me, but no one has put a gun to your (collective) head and forced you to enter talkbacks on Serenity. The only exception to this was the obnoxious trolling of Tonay which, in my opinion, was allowed to go on far too long. If Tonay is out there somewhere and he/she is actually a fan, thanks a lot, asshole. But if he/she is rather what most people expect, just a troller who tried to start flame wars, I hope you burn in Shepherd Book's special hell. You know, the one "reserved for child molesters and people who talk at the theatre."
Oct. 10, 2005, 11:28 a.m. CST
As a sci-fi fan, I hoped Serenity - although I thought it was just a mediocre "B" movie - would do well at the box office. Every time a sci-fi movie sparks an influx at the box office, it probably means a few projects get the green light that might not ordinarily make it past pre-production. I may be negative about the movie, but I'm not a "hater" by any stretch of the imagination. I don't care who is or isn't in a film, who it's directed by, or what the fan base is. I like to think I judge a movie on its merits, and I didn't think Serenity hda many. So please remember, not everyone who is negative about the movie is a "hater."
Oct. 10, 2005, 12:32 p.m. CST
Come back to Kirk. It's not too late.
Oct. 10, 2005, 12:33 p.m. CST
by Mr. Waturi
It was far from perfect, but still much more entertaining and engrossing than Ep III, War of the Worlds, etc. And less cartoonish than so called 'adult' films like "History of Violence." Deserves to make much more money than it is.
Oct. 10, 2005, 12:51 p.m. CST
Guess us Brits have more taste? *Just a joke btw! please no haters bashing me! hehe
Oct. 10, 2005, 1:29 p.m. CST
I have never seen Firefly or Buffy or anything Whedon has ever done, and I'll tell you this. The first 9 minutes have sparked my interest enough to see it, the 3 reality shifts were quite alot of fun and I think I prefer Joss's fresh young low budgeted approach to Lucas' tired old money crinkled eyes. I just saw ROTS for the third time last night, and instead of liking it more, I found it a bit laborious and unconvincing.(still like it alot though)
Oct. 10, 2005, 1:36 p.m. CST
Firefly fans can be happy at having a good film. And people tired with how some seem to worship Whedon can be pleased at the appalling box office.
Oct. 10, 2005, 1:58 p.m. CST
Oh wait, they cancelled Enterprise and they have nothing else in the pipeline. Never mind.
Oct. 10, 2005, 2:37 p.m. CST
cool, really? well, that's good news at least... maybe there is hope for a sequel / series revival after all? heres to hoping...
Oct. 10, 2005, 2:53 p.m. CST
Your attempt at sarcasm is quite weak, my friend. Just in case you needed reminding TREK has over 600 hours of episodes to gush over as well as 9 *NINE!!!* feature films to watch and countless books to read. I won't even get into the conventions and memorabilia scattered across the internet. As for the pipeline, don't worry. TREK will be back both on the big and small screen. It's annoying fans like me that must keep the flag flying while we wait out the "flavors of the month" until the real sci-fi returns.
Oct. 10, 2005, 3:04 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
You know, there
Oct. 10, 2005, 3:26 p.m. CST
by Gheorghe Zamfir
If anything the box office for the film has vindicated FOX's thought process, not given them cause for second guessing themselves. And since a good opening in the UK is like 1 million US, it probably won't factor in too much to that. Plus didn't Joss already say somewhere that he's unwilling to work with FOX again anyways? I guess there's always the chance of FOX selling the rights, but I doubt they'd be that nice. Having what basically amounts to free advertising for a product you own with another studio releasing the movie, I'm sure FOX is just gonna wanna hang on and suck out every last penny they can.
Oct. 10, 2005, 3:27 p.m. CST
When it comes to cinema, 98% of the people who go are sheep. There are very few i think who actually take time out to read a review and see a film based on that alone. When i go to my local cinema on a friday or a saturday night there's usually a huge crowd of people stood infront of the ticket office staring at the posters on the wall deciding which pretty picture constitutes a good flick. I'm dead serious, i think most of them know little to fuck all about anything before they see it unless it has several blockbuster stars and the marketing blitz is non-stop 3 months before release. A good example i can give is LOTR; when i saw fellowship at the cinema the dumb bint next to me said to her boyfriend 'is that it'? when the movie finished. Completely unaware that it was a trilogy or an adaption of classic literature. This is the mentality of most people, it's sad to have such little faith in the public but there you have it. Just take a look at what constitutes news these days, celebrity affairs, big brother, i'm a celebrity get me out of here and the mad thing is people think this is news!! Nevermind the earthquake in Kashmir, who's Jude Law shagging at the minute? I know it'll probably piss off a million fans but i knew Serenity was NEVER going to be massive for those reasons i listed above. If they'd got some big name attached as a villain then maybe it'd have raised afew more eyebrows but to jo public it was just a cheap sci-fi movie.
Oct. 10, 2005, 3:52 p.m. CST
This looks great. It's a movie. etc etc Looks very well done. This convinced me to see it. I notice there's a lot of arguing here. Why? I'm not going to read all of it. You're actually acting exactly like a disfuctional family. Producers of Star Trek got sick of it and died mentally actually. Word for the Pained Fanfighters, don't kill your artists: "stop".
Oct. 10, 2005, 4:16 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
...its fans. Personally I thought Serenity was all right, visually a little flat, with some clunky lines when Whedon tried to bring back in the western element (you
Oct. 10, 2005, 4:18 p.m. CST
You are correct about ST5. I do not consider than cinematic abortion part of the canon. It is more like a bad dream Kirk had after a considerably large Tex-Mex dinner.
Oct. 10, 2005, 4:19 p.m. CST
Yes, I do consider ENT canon.
Oct. 10, 2005, 4:24 p.m. CST
Wow - pretty good list there. You are right on with The Searchers. Fantastic film. Would I be considered a geek if I were to suggest LOTR be added to that list?
Oct. 10, 2005, 4:31 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
The only one I flat out disagree with is Amelie, which I liked but seems out of place in the company where you've placed it. Oh, and Wizard of Oz, because of complicated psychological traumas the movie inflicted on me when I first saw it at four or five years old. Maybe to make it more interesting we should name movies that are not widely considered classics that we think should be. My first nomination would be They Might Be Giants, but I really love my George C Scott. More conventionally, you were a little light on comedies, so I'll throw in His Girl Friday, the Philadelphia Story, and Animal House, and on social drama so I'll toss in Twelve Angry Men, To Kill a Mockingbird and Inherit the Wind.
Oct. 10, 2005, 4:44 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
The Searchers without a doubt. The Wild Bunch, Once Upon a Time in the West, Fort Apache, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, The Professionals and...hmm...in a list of ten why is it always the tenth one that hurts? How about three I really love that don't quite deserve top ten status but deserve to be watched over and over again...Duel in the Sun, The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean and Major Dundee (recently released on DVD).
Oct. 10, 2005, 4:58 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
...I don't think we disagree about this to an extent that makes it worth an argument. I would suggest that fan "buzz" (and the internet is the primary means of spreading that now, and sites like this one are a subset of that) can make some difference in a film's BO. Sometimes it even serves as the medium where the heat for a movie can be generated. Blair Witch is probably the easiest example of that. Does quality matter? Sometimes. Do stars? Sometimes. But it's alchemy.
Oct. 10, 2005, 5:06 p.m. CST
Seriousley, think about it. The Cochran angle was allright but the rest was a ripoff. Back to Serenity, any chance the dvd could hit before Christmas? I'm guessing it'll be January, but if they released it the week before Xmas it might boost the sales a bit.
Oct. 10, 2005, 5:10 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
...will be on Dvd in time for Christmas.
Oct. 10, 2005, 5:32 p.m. CST
by I Dunno
Because there was like 2 scenes of people walking around in a ship with the bad guys lurking around? News flash! No more movies with creepy bad guys in space ships! Scene for scene rehash. Jebus.
Oct. 10, 2005, 6:18 p.m. CST
I wrote the "Letter of the Month" in the Fall'97 Sci-Fi Invasion! magazine, which was a offshoot from Wizard. (I picked up a nifty Tusken Raider mask for it!) In that letter I proved how much of a Aliens ripoff First Contact was. Heres my argument: (1.)Picard had a skin-bulging nightmare. SO DID RIPLEY! (2.)Picard tries to save humanity from a grotesque alien race. SO DID RIPLEY! (3.)Picard and the gun-toting crew members of the Enterprise hunt for bad guys down dark corridors. SO DID RIPLEY AND THE CREW OF THE SULACO! (4.)Picard argues over blowing up the Enterprise with Worf. SO DID RIPLEY! Well, she argued with Burke over blowing up the colony. (5.)Picard refuses to evacuate and journeys to the heart of the Borg hive to save Data (with whom he has a father-son relationship). RIPLEY REFUSES TO EVACUATE AND JOURNEYS TO THE HEART OF THE ALIEN HIVE TO RESCUE NEWT (with whom she has a mother-daughter relationship). (6.)Data almost gets assimilated. NEWT ALMOST GETS IMPREGNATED! (7.)Picard battles the Borg Queen in the films climax. RIPLEY BATTLES THE ALIEN QUEEN IN THE FILMS CLIMAX! I Dunno, I REST MY CASE!
Oct. 10, 2005, 6:20 p.m. CST
Oct. 10, 2005, 7:18 p.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
I am concerned, though, that you may--and I said may--suffer from "Film Student Disease," in which a list of their favorite movies turn into a list of the best movies--a different list entirely. Now, if those really are your favorite films, more power to you, but I'm not sure if you watch these movies over and over and over again, or if you simply respect them. Example: "Dr Strangelove." I watched this last week in my sister's film class--no, I'm no longer a film student--and while I still greatly respect it and think it's a great movie, I respect it more than enjoy it. On the other hand, I still laugh uncontrollably at "Some Like It Hot" or pretty much any Sturges film. I have seen every movie on your list, and would include every single one of them on a list of the greatest films of all time, but they don't all necessarily mean something to me. I like "Amelie," but I prefer "City of Lost Children" and "A Very Long Engagement," opting to watch them more than Jeunet's other films. "Almost Famous" is my second favorite movie because of its connection to my past in journalism and an accelerated student and because it makes me feel joy. I'll watch "Sword in the Stone" long before I watch "Snow White" because I'm a stickler for King Arthur stories. "Snow White" is a milestone, a masterpiece, but I don't enjoy it nearly as much as other films. At least you didn't say "Casablanca." It's a damn good, influential-as-all-hell, but I don't think it holds up well. As for the argument that movies just aren't brilliant anymore, I would say that's half-right. Modern movies aren't brilliant like the way old movies are brilliant, but in their own way. Everything needs to be put into perpsective. You seem intelligent, so I'm pretty sure you know this, but I'd put something like "Three Kings," "Fargo," "Boogie Nights," "True Romance" and "Chicago" next to greats from any other decade. Now "Adventures of Robin Hood." That's something I'd watch again and again. "Lawrence of Arabia," on the other hand, is so emotionally draining that I can only pop it in every year or two. Compare that to "Singin' in the Rain," which I watch tri-monthly. *pant pant* So...yeah. No idea where I was going with that. If those are your favorite films, fantastic. On my recommendation, I suggest you check out "Children of Paradise" and "The Grand Illusion," but I have the feeling you already have.
Oct. 10, 2005, 7:29 p.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
Sort of like how many Americans think foreign films are somehow better, but visit any other country--mostly in Europe--and my God do they have horrific examples of cinema. Only the good ones--and the big ones--come to the states.
Oct. 10, 2005, 7:47 p.m. CST
If I'm to follow what you said happened to you on the "Battlestar Galactica" forum, it's not analogous. "Pissing off" Star Wars fans by saying that they thought the movie was worse (tell that to Manohla Dargis, if you dare) is not the equivalent of spamming 'Serenity' TalkBacks with vindictive malice. Maybe I'm biased. So are you.
Oct. 10, 2005, 8:03 p.m. CST
...I mean, I don't know. Whatever.
Oct. 10, 2005, 8:34 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
Casablanca is number one and always will be. "Are my eyes really blue?" Just the coolest ever leading man in the coolest leading man role ever. Disagree and I will quote all three hundred and seventy-four other quotable lines from the film, one at a time, until you stop.
Oct. 10, 2005, 8:37 p.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
And no, I'm not the kind of person that wants everything to turn out hunky-dorey at the end.
Oct. 10, 2005, 8:39 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
...I at any rate watch Dr. Strangelove at least once every coupld months. One of the ten best movies ever made by human beings. "I'm not saying we won't get our hair mussed. But ten - twenty million tops." All hail George C Scott!
Oct. 10, 2005, 8:40 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
...if you don't tear up a little when they play the Marseilles your heart isn't beating.
Oct. 10, 2005, 8:46 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
Claude Rains, man! "Tomorrow I'll be coming in with an absolutely ravishing blonde. I'll be glad if she loses." Or..."Major Strasser has been shot. Round up the usual suspects." Or..."Well, if I was a woman, and I weren't around..."
Oct. 10, 2005, 8:52 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
...Sidney Greenstreet and Peter Lorre, the two most iconic character actors of the era. Lorre: "You detest me, don't you, Rick?" "Somehow, just because you detest me, you are the only one I can trust." Or Greenstreet: "Why I tell you this I cannot say, for it can not possibly profit me." Although Greenstreet's most wonderful moments come in the Maltese Falcon, another movie needing a spot on the short list of the best ever made. Man, movies are cool.
Oct. 10, 2005, 9:17 p.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
Now quit being juvenile. And I said I love "Dr. Strangelove," but more out of respect. God. Lighten up.
Oct. 10, 2005, 9:26 p.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
Don't forget, they consider "Citizen Kane" #1.
Oct. 10, 2005, 9:31 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
...if I understand you correctly you've got a point there. There was a lot of anti-Whedon smack on the Serenity boards from the get-go. So you're right, a lot of this probably isn't backlash, just a continuation of the same thing. Some of it is backlash, though. You know what? I'm done with this. Sorry your movie didn't do as well as it might have. I know how it feels and it sucks. Thinking about some movies I love has robbed me of any impulse to bang on anybody's favorite, their behavior in expressing their love or the proper response to their enthusiasm.
Oct. 10, 2005, 9:36 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
Lighten up? You gave me a chance to try to remember lines from sadly, predictably enough, my favorite movie of all-time. What could be lighter or more fun than that? Now I will eventually call you an unromantic, cold-hearted, postmodern monster, who "never shoved a noun against a verb except to blow something up", but everyone will know it's not true because we all read what movies you do love, and they're great. But the arguing back and forth...that's part of the fun part.
Oct. 10, 2005, 9:53 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
Won me over completely and I wasn't with it going in.
Oct. 10, 2005, 9:54 p.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
By all means, continue. And I don't mean this condescendingly. It just seemed like you could potentially be trying to harrass me.
Oct. 10, 2005, 9:56 p.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
Call me crazy.
Oct. 10, 2005, 9:59 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
...based on your second list I could probably live with you. Wind and the Lion AND The Lion In Winter? The Ten Commandments? Even my wife, who is extremely tolerant of my cinematic foibles, won't put up with me when I try to watch that one. Bravo, sir. So let it be written! So let it be done!
Oct. 10, 2005, 10 p.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
Good stuff. "True Romance" and "Arsenic and Old Lace" are a part of my "20" as well.
Oct. 10, 2005, 11:31 p.m. CST
... and quite enjoyed it. I also have a Firefly boxed set - I have to get around to opening it one of these days ...
Oct. 10, 2005, 11:37 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
Nothing better than when you get one you knew nothing about and it ends up being fun. It's such a rare experience anymore, with the internet. Back in the day you'd hit a theater and end up seeing Tourist Trap or Phantasm knowing very little more than it was a horror movie (of course you saw a lot of really bad stuff, too). Now you know everything about every movie, but somehow Mallory slipped through for me. When Mallory drove her pink hearse through the gate and into hell I just cackled in delight. Good to meet a fellow fan.
Oct. 11, 2005, 12:47 a.m. CST
1)The Monster Squad- So what if it was a Goonies wannabe? It kicked ass, and it was a hell of a lot better than Van Helsuck! "Kick him in the nards! Kick him in the nards!" "Wolfman dont got no nards!" (he kicks and scores) everyone: "Wolfman got nards!" 2) Starship Troopers- Acting, so bad its good. I will admitt though, I think Jake Busey shoulda had a better career, if only he could get out of his dads psychotic shadow. 3)The Village- SHUT UP, JUST SHUT THE HELL UP! I DON"T WANNA HEAR IT!
Oct. 11, 2005, 12:50 a.m. CST
Maybe if Harry gets some of those John Carter residuals he can upgrade this site. But I doubt that will happen, Noah Wyle is a greedy bitch.
Oct. 11, 2005, 12:57 a.m. CST
by Neo Zeed
Those movies are classics dude. WTF?! If Big Trouble in Little' China, Robocop, and Airplane aint in AFI, then they don't know shit about movies. As for genuine guilty pleasures (like Empire Records or some shit like that) I'm not sure there is such a thing anyway 'cause if it works it works. It's like a happy accident or a cinematic anomaly, but it still counts in the win column. I watch Police Academy 4 and Commando anytime they're on. If loving 'em is wrong, I don't wanna be right.
Oct. 11, 2005, 1:01 a.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
...but it will be the first ten I think of, which might mean something. 1. She--The Italian Sandahl Bergman version, which as far as I know is unavailable in any format, though I do have an old VHS. It's post-apocolyptic and features chainsaw wielding mutants, a giant in a tutu, crazy Star Trek Dyonisian town, a multiplying clone doing a horrible impression of Robin Williams doing Popeye and...hey, Sandahl Bergman with a sword. She fights Frankenstein's Monster! 2. Straight To Hell. Oh Alex Cox, you were great when you were incoherent. Sy Richardson should have been a huge star. Just a wonderful train wreck of a movie. 3. The Killer Shrews. Possibly the most perfect bad movie ever made. Everything is bad at such a numbingly consistent level that it creates its own definition of quality. I watch this movie at least two or three times a year. 4. The Warrior and the Sorceress. It's Yojimbo! Really! David Carradine and an Italian babe who I believe is clothed at no point during the entire film. And it's Yojimbo! Seriously, better than Last Man Standing. In a way. 5. The Blue Iguana. Starred Dylan McDermott before he turned into Alan Alda. Just a horrible parody of a hardnosed noir. But there's this one line of voiceover, where McDermott hits the phrasing just perfectly, right after the horribly vicious blonde fatale reveals herself to be even more horribly vicious than we had been led to expect. "I liked her. She was nice." Just brilliant. 6. World Gone Wild. Also, I believe, unavailable on DVD. Stars Michael Pare, Catherine Mary Stewart, Adam Ant, Bruce Dern and the guy who played Lord Bowler on Briscoe County, The world has run out of water and Adam Ant is the leader of some wiggy machine gun toting cult. Bruce Dern collects a ragtag crew of...oh, it's The Seven Samurai. But...you know...kind of bad. Bruce Dern is so over the top in this film that he'll make you grin every second he's onscreen. 7. Prince of Darkness/Mouth of Madness. I don't know. These lowly regarded mid-career horror films by Carpenter just really work for me. I love them both. Maybe they shouldn't count as guilty pleasures, though, because I think they're really pretty good. 8. The Ten Commandments. Just the most star-studded, surreal spectacle anyone could ever want to see. It contains a scene where Chuck Heston chokes Vincent Price to death while saying "Master Builder? Or Master Butcher?" and that's just one out of dozens of moments of absolute cinematic madness. 9. Man of La Mancha. Because I suck. It makes me cry every time I watch it. I suck that much. 10. Just about any Nature Goes Wild movie, from Day of the Animals where a bare chested Leslie Nielson wrestles a bear to Frogs, where Joan Van Ark wears the ugliest yellow jumpsuit in movie history and one guy gets killed by geckos. But that leaves out The Happening, and Ginger and Fairy Tales and After The Fox and Start the Revolution Without Me and...and...and....
Oct. 11, 2005, 4:01 a.m. CST
Where I staked my bets on W&G this past weekend. Anyone bet against me?
Oct. 11, 2005, 4:57 a.m. CST
We've had a busy night in here, and I don't want you to overlook exactly why First Contact is a Aliens ripoff. Hmmm...this thread may verywell be the second coming of AQUAF@G! Just to keep this on the topic of Serenity, IT FREAKIN RULES!!!!! Well, not the box office. :'(
Oct. 11, 2005, 10 a.m. CST
...it was a major, major fuck-up cancelling this show.
Oct. 11, 2005, 11:27 a.m. CST
Lost is the exception to the rule, but all the shows that it birthed this season are just so-so. Theshold is the only one that i find just OK, and thats because Carla is a babe. she can lock me up in her government basement anyday. firefly would have been good on WB or UPN about 5 years ago when buffy and angel and jake 2.0 and all that jazz was going on. but nowadays networks are too quick to ask 'what have you done for me lately?' where "lately" means last week. and if you havent done +10 million viewers, no show is safe. thank god for cable. scifi channel sucks compared to the days of I-man, farscape, etc, but at least there's some choices for us nerds. where else would we get our crazy monster of the week movies every weekend? lol
Oct. 11, 2005, 12:01 p.m. CST
I loved Enterprise, especially the last season, and the bastards killed it all! ... And btw, I like Star Trek V. Not as good as #2, mind you, but way better than the 2001-Wannabe TMP.
Oct. 11, 2005, 12:15 p.m. CST
Yeah, it's out of place, but I've seen this question crop up multiple times. I fould the answer by going to the Simon section of the serenitymovie.com site. The "Science Explorer" states the following: Debarkation - Simon injects crew members with a common immuno-booster, Ivoprovalyn, when their wrok takes them to less-than-sanitart places...which is pretty much always.
Oct. 11, 2005, 12:16 p.m. CST
Oct. 11, 2005, 1:22 p.m. CST
5 better than TMP?! C'mon! Seriously, give TMP another go. I does grow on you. Plus its nice to see a relatively unchanged Spock and McCoy. Plus Kirk is at his most Kirk-ness. on the other hand, 5 has naked Uhura! Not a good thing. 5 has crap like the "pool" table and "So come on down to Federation Federal..." 5 has out of character Klingons and sub-par effects. 5 made my girlfriend at the time break up with me she hated it so much.
Oct. 11, 2005, 1:32 p.m. CST
If you look past the pathetic editing, the piss-poor dialogue, the ridiculous plot contrivances, and the lousy sci-fi, Final Frontier is an awesome film. Seriously. Next time you watch the movie, watch the parts that aren't happening and let your mind flow naturally along with the ideas. You have to listen to the notes they're not playing.
Oct. 11, 2005, 3:48 p.m. CST
TREK has taken over this talkback! Long live Kirk!
Oct. 11, 2005, 3:56 p.m. CST
Sorry, got caught up in the moment. Here's an idea I have seen discussed more often of late: Star Trek - The Original Series. Remade ala Galactica. And don't give me any of that "just copying BG" shit. I've been (as have tons of others) suggesting this for quite some time. I believe the ENT ep. set in the mirror universe showed than the original ship could still look awfully nice even now in the early 21st century. It has held up well these past 40 years. Hell, as for stories to tell, unlimited options. Now, who to play Kirk and company...
Oct. 11, 2005, 4:15 p.m. CST
I wholeheartedly agree. Not a damn thing wrong with a sunny future. If I want dark and gritty I'll watch Blade Runner, Aliens, or any number of post-apocalyptic futures turned out be Hollywood in the past 25 years. I like my Trek with a "can do" attitude.
Oct. 11, 2005, 4:22 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
...especially for TV of its time. There was the cold war episode, the episode that ended with the two guys fighting each other in the dimensional doorway for all eternity, just tons of what were, by the television standards of the time, really dark and morally ambiguous endings. That's why I love the original series so much, and why I haven't liked any of the subsequent Treks even half as well.
Oct. 11, 2005, 4:58 p.m. CST
It was finally gettin' all luvvy-duvvy in here and you had to go and puncture the mood. Sigh.
Oct. 11, 2005, 5:18 p.m. CST
Holy fuck, wolf at the door. Just when I was starting to feel sorry for the browncoats, having enjoyed watching the Firefly series myself, you become an obnoxious fucktard all over again. What's even more pathetic is that the UK box-office will help Serenity's cause about as much as the Swiss Army will determine the outcome of the war in Iraq. Obnoxious and over-zealous fucktards like you have hurt Serenity VERY badly, and you continue to do so obliviously even when you've been SOUNDLY beaten down. You remind me of that knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail who gets all his limbs hacked off and still keeps taunting his opponent. I WAS going to see Serenity this weekend, but I'm going to see the Keira Knightley movie instead, JUST to spite YOU and all the other asshole browncoats who continue to be an embarassment to the geek community. Obnoxious fucktard...
Oct. 11, 2005, 5:50 p.m. CST
I officially pledge myself to the browncoats, man. I went into Serenity not having ever seen more than thirty seconds of Firefly, and with a generally shitty outlook for the film. And it kicked my ass in a way that films rarely do nowadays. Easily better than the Star Wars prequels (and this is coming from a Star Wars supergeek who loved Episodes II and III-I's still shit no matter what), not to mention any other Sci-Fi out there today. Where do I get my coat?
Oct. 11, 2005, 5:50 p.m. CST
(sorry, can't ignore a research opportunity) ... however, I've been unable to find the screens per capita for either region, so I'm not sure the relation.
Oct. 11, 2005, 5:55 p.m. CST
Now, now boys at least have the common courtesy to strip down and rub yourself down with oil before you start fighting.
Oct. 11, 2005, 7:27 p.m. CST
Ironically, I'm NOT a Serenity hater. I've seen all of the Firefly episodes and I liked the series, but I'm not a rabid brown-starfish like yourself. I've been reading many boards regarding Serenity to help me to decide if I would go and see the movie or not, thus explaining why I'm "hanging around" here. However, nobody is sure why you're hanging around here after a stellar $15M full two-weekend box-office take telling potential Serenity customers to go fuck themselves because the movie's #1 showing in the UK netted the film a spectacular windfall of $1,686,074. Wow, that certainly qualifies as new life being injected into the aborted fetus known as Serenity. [sarcasm] This film really IS the phenomenon that it was artificially pumped up to be. [/sarcasm] By the way, I take NO joy in the poor box-office showing of Serenity, only in the sad and pathetic attempts of the brown-starfishes to find a silver lining in a non-existent cloud. Wolfy, you've single-handedly convinced me NOT to support an obnoxious and eerily creepy fan base where you are an example of its extreme members (note - I DO realize that there are reasonable and realistic Firefly fans out there and I feel bad for you that fucktards like wolfy are ruining the fan experience and preventing an influx of new fans - the reasonable fans are browncoats, but the obnoxious zealots like wolfy are brown-starfishes). Thanks to wolfy, I'll wait to rent this when it comes out on DVD. Way to "spread the word", Einstein...
Oct. 11, 2005, 7:43 p.m. CST
Biting off your nose to spite your face is never a good thing.
Oct. 11, 2005, 8:25 p.m. CST
I'm not going to NEVER see the movie, Beaker, but wolfy has soured me on seeing this in the theaters. I will rent it on DVD. I was on the fence anyway, but wolfy was only a part of my decision not to see this in the theaters. First of all, my wife has no desire to see Serenity at all despite me trying to convince her that it would be good. Secondly, the high ticket prices have forced us to be more picky regarding the movies that we see in the theater. Thirdly, the theater-going experience has become increasingly worse over the years what with obnoxious teenagers talking louder than the movie (I recently had to shout "shut up" at some teenagers in the theater where we were watching War of the Worlds), people kicking the back of your seat, stinky people who don't know the meaning of the word 'hygiene' and again, the cost is getting ridiculous - we just went to see Corpse Bride a couple of weeks ago and it cost FIVE dollars for ONE large Coke! In addition, I have a nice home theater setup in my house which creates a MUCH nicer movie-viewing experience compared to going to the theater - the sound is better, the picture is better, the seating is more comfortable, I can have cheap snacks and I can go to the bathroom whenever I want to without missing any of the movie. So realistically, wolfy was not the ONLY reason why I've decided to avoid Serenity at the theaters. He was simply the straw that broke the camel's back...
Oct. 11, 2005, 9:28 p.m. CST
...that Star Trek: The Original Series is the greatest sci-fi show EVER and everything else pales by comparison? A lack of responses will be taken as a general agreement by all on this subject.
Oct. 11, 2005, 9:29 p.m. CST
by I Dunno
Trek started bright and optimistic but that doesn't mean it can't expand its horiznons a bit. DS9 was very dark and many (including me) thing it's the best overall episode. Just because Trek started with the shiny happy side of the galaxy doesn't mean it has to be pigeon holed there forever.
Oct. 11, 2005, 9:58 p.m. CST
See above! Nuff said.
Oct. 11, 2005, 9:58 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
...The original Star Trek is the greatest science fiction show in the history of television. I can't even imagine anyone arguing the point. It was groundbreaking, rule breaking, and more influential than any other science fiction series has been or likely ever will be. It defined a genre for a generation, intoduced iconic characters and language and created figures that a part of the definition of 20th century culture.
Oct. 11, 2005, 10 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
...but there were no Borg on that show. Not even cute ones.
Oct. 11, 2005, 10:09 p.m. CST
I could not have said it better. Well done, man. Now I gotta hit the rack as this borg needs his beauty sleep.
Oct. 11, 2005, 10:11 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
I mean City on the Edge of Forever is the signature episode. Shiny? Happy? The end of that episode was a more brutal lung puncturing kick to the ribs of television audiences of its time than anything my favorite sci-fi show in a long time, the new BG, has done to the audiences of today.
Oct. 11, 2005, 10:15 p.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
But I understand.
Oct. 12, 2005, 3:30 a.m. CST
Take it easy, man! You don't think 5 bones for a Coke is highway robbery? I do. I still go to the movies, but don't rag on the guy just because he's not contributing $17 to 'Serenity''s B.O. intake. That's the kind of shit people talk about when they say some of the fans push the franchise on them. Lots of people prefer the home to the theater (about 50% according to Entertainment Weekly, but then, people love to bitch, so that number may have been 'enhanced' by people who said it and didn't mean it), and they're more than entitled to. Anyway.
Oct. 12, 2005, 6:29 a.m. CST
Not much more mind you, cinemas make more money off concessions these days than they do off the actual tickets. Wolf, i think you've just proven the rabin browncoat fan theory for a lot of people. You're a credit to your creed; i'll quite happily pay you $17 to shut the fuck up.
Oct. 12, 2005, 7:54 a.m. CST
Oct. 12, 2005, 7:59 a.m. CST
Damn straight. "Let's get the hell out of here" - one of the finest lines ever 'cause you just know how torn up he is and there's not a goddamned thing he can do about it. Best. Characters. Ever.
Oct. 12, 2005, 8:18 a.m. CST
I never said that I was afraid of the fans. Learn how to read. I said that SOME of the fans, mostly YOU, have soured me on this movie. But if it makes you feel more manly to think that I'm afraid of you, then knock yourself out - Oooo, I'm scared of wolf at the door! His name has 'wolf' in it, so I'm scared! And he's at my door! Mooooooommy, I just wolfed in my pants!
Oct. 12, 2005, 8:37 a.m. CST
What part of "I have a nice home theater setup in my house" do you not understand? Clearly, I don't live in a trailer. Again, learn how to read. And I've never seen Catwoman, let alone own the DVD. But other than that, you've been BANG on about me. So keep up with that stereotyping of yours! It really does make you look clever. Interestingly, Catwoman made $40M domestically, so it may end up being more popular than Serenity. Irony is a bitch. "seriously, serenity deserves a much bigger audience but it can certainly do without wankers like you." There's your problem, wolfy. Thanks to brilliant people like yourself, it will never gain a bigger audience because not only are you alienating non-Firefly fans, but now you're alienating actual Firefly fans who WANT to see the movie. Way to "spread the word", Einstein...
Oct. 12, 2005, 8:44 a.m. CST
And you should do the REAL Serenity fans a favor and stop "promoting" the movie. You're not helping...
Oct. 12, 2005, 9:53 a.m. CST
You make out that he is the majority when it comes to fans of firefly. However, he is the only one here who likes Serenity, AND seems to be acting like a bit of a dip-shit. Most people acting silly here are haters! Dont you find it funny how this has turned into the "Star Trek reunited club"? If you guys get so wound up by one person, no wonder wonder we scare you! Kind of silly if you think about it. Although, It kinda makes sense! No wonder I haven't seen any of these "scary" fans... its only one person that posts here every other month! Maybe its the haters that are nerd/scary, rather than the browncoats? cutest_of_borg has done all he can to turn this into a star trek post... THATS what I find scary.
Oct. 12, 2005, 12:29 p.m. CST
Alot of people enjoy Star Trek still and the previous posts by other people other that cutest are a clear indication of that. We're all just, having a nice chat. I'll put the cheque in the post wolf, you can cash it with your Giro.
Oct. 12, 2005, 12:43 p.m. CST
I love Trek.
Oct. 12, 2005, 12:58 p.m. CST
And what is wrong with turning an exceedingly boring discussion about a show 99.99% don't give a crap about into one that is loved worldwide? You should be thanking me for halting this tiresome topic that Herc seems intent on shoving down our throats. kisses
Oct. 12, 2005, 2:10 p.m. CST
I think it was ingenious how he gave us the origin of Shepard Book without having any exposition whatsoever. And yet it's there as plain as day.
Oct. 12, 2005, 3:51 p.m. CST
Yeah, you DO. You're not fooling anybody, wolfy. Apparently "fuck you, serenity-haters, serenity just opened at no.1 in the UK box office, beating out the much-beloved pride & prejudice with keira knightley. suck on that" qualifies as not caring, does it? Nice try. Oh yeah, I thought that I would also point out a couple of things regarding your very mature quote. The population of the UK is approximately 20% of that of the States (according to you). Serenity made roughly $1.6M in the UK in its opening weekend which is - wait for it, wolfy - LESS than the $2M (no need to get your calculator, wolfy - $2M is 20% of the $10M that Serenity made in the States - I know that you're not good at math) that it had to make in order to be AS successful as it was in the States. But being the inadequate mathematician that you obviously are, you obnoxiously boasted about Serenity's "suck on that" box-office performance in the UK, blissfully oblivious to the fact that, on a per capita basis, the movie actually performed WORSE in the UK than it did in the States. Again, irony is a bitch. Oh, one more thing - PLEASE stop calling me names, wolfy! Name-calling really, REALLY hurts me aLOT! Oh no, wait a minute... no it doesn't! I'm NOT in grade two...
Oct. 12, 2005, 4:02 p.m. CST
How old ARE you? Picking on Sam's mother? Classy...
Oct. 12, 2005, 4:27 p.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
Oct. 12, 2005, 4:31 p.m. CST
Not that I give two shits WHAT you think, wolfy, but I PVR'd the entire series when it was aired on Space (our version of the Sci-Fi Channel in the States) here in Canada during the Labour Day weekend as a Firefly marathon on the monday. If you want some small proof that I DID watch the series - and this is mostly for the REAL Firefly fans here - here it goes... Book gave Kaylee a small box during the first episode that had a strawberry in it and she practically had an orgasm when she took a bite. I thought that was a very nice touch. And one thing that I thought was funny about the final episode was how that bounty hunter was supposed to QUIETLY take over Serenity using STEALTH, yet he decided to wear a LEATHER suit which creaked loudly with every step that he took! I felt that it was a funny oversight. Oh, and ironically, while typing one of my posts this morning, I caught the Firefly episode (again, on Space, at 11:00 a.m.) where Simon and River get kidnapped after the crew delivers their load of cows and Book gets shot and they have to take him on to an Alliance ship to get medical help. But hey, you can believe that I'm "posing" as an actual Firefly fan if you want. Whatever strokes your ego, wolfy. Now, about that bridge in central London...
Oct. 12, 2005, 5:19 p.m. CST
At least I think its at 74. When I hit 60ish, my eyeballs started to bleed.
Oct. 12, 2005, 5:30 p.m. CST
and what this cutest_borg_borrisBecker guy keeps saying is really helping the haters? Come on people... a LOT of UK film goers have put this @ number one in the UK box office, therefore a LOT of UK peeps love this film (not to mention the millions that went to see it in the US), which I think deserves some attention... if you think we UK people dont deserve some space to talk about our fave current film on this site, well then, maybe you dont deserve films like 'shaun of the Dead'?
Oct. 12, 2005, 8:06 p.m. CST
"or responding to the kind of talkbacker that 'makes you afraid' to see it in the cinema??" Umm, I guess that I have to repeat things TWICE for you, wolfy. A genetics course that I took in university taught me that inbreeding does that to you. Never used the word 'afraid' at all to describe rabid brown-starfishes like yourself. But feel free to keep thinking that I'm 'afraid' of you if it makes you look cool in front of your 8-year-old friends. "as for your 'knowledge' of firefly, any chimp could have gathered the same details from episode summaries on 1 of a zillion fansites." AGAIN with the repeating things! Darn that inbreeding! Read my lips, wolfy - I don't give a shit WHAT you think of my Firefly knowledge. I know what I've seen and you not believing me isn't going to make me lose sleep at night no matter how much your inflated ego tells you otherwise. According to your reasons for not believing me, not even a DIEHARD browncoat can prove to you that they've seen the series. So there's no point in trying any further. I get nothing out of it save for the amusement at seeing how much it irks you that I HAVE seen the series, but your stubborn 8-year-old ego won't allow you to admit that you're wrong. That alone has been worth it. Thanks, buddy!
Oct. 12, 2005, 9:46 p.m. CST
You will bow before Kirk. I SWEAR IT!!! ***SPIKE*** Thanks for Shaun of the Dead, btw. Definitely in my top 3 from last year. ***ANCHORITE*** Yes, I'm Swedish on my designation 8 of 12s side.
Oct. 12, 2005, 11:29 p.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
Is that so much to ask? Stop taking the talkback personally. You'll be over it in a matter of minutes.
Oct. 13, 2005, 12:49 a.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
One: I could use seventeen dollars. So if anything I say in this series of posts is something anyone would like me to stop saying, seventeen dollars will get it for you. Non-post related requests will be considered, but will be decided on a case by case basis.
Oct. 13, 2005, 12:50 a.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
There is not a limited supply of any resource other than time on one of these boards. If, the night before last, folks hadn
Oct. 13, 2005, 12:51 a.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
Cutest. Be nice. Now I was disappointed in Firefly. I expected more, and I won
Oct. 13, 2005, 12:56 a.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
There are a lot of Whedon bashers (though certainly not ALL) who take a special delight in pulling the wings off his fans, and they often do it with an almost hysterical virulence. And they are jerks. There are also some (SOME) Whedon fans who are in serious need of either moving past Joss to other genre things so they can more properly put his work in context or at least back away from it enough to get some bloody perspective. Once again, I don
Oct. 13, 2005, 5:39 a.m. CST
'Cos i find it really amusing that you use words like 'mom' and 'ass'. Oh and one more thing, no one was moaning at the bottom of this talkback until you come in to flame someone, so the question should be..why would YOU take up residence at the bottom of a serenity talkback? PS Serenity being number 1 in the UK is a hollow victory mate, theres fuck all else on worth seeing that's probably not already been seen by most.
Oct. 13, 2005, 7:56 a.m. CST
You are correct - I am old enough to remember Logan's Run, the original BG, and Buck Rogers. Not quite old enough to remember watching original TREK (my parents tell me they didn't watch it too often - we watched the Red Skelton Show instead - DAMN!). I don't know why I say the things I do. Perhaps you're right. I will try to place nice. Just passionate about about the Holy Trinity I guess.
Oct. 13, 2005, 9:03 a.m. CST
I didn't HAVE any need to prove that I've seen the series until you threw your little temper tantrum and incomprehensibly accused me of not having seen the series. Thus I responded. It's not rocket science, wolfy. That's okay though because a child's ego is a fragile thing and it is clear from your posts that you are nothing but a stubborn little child who can't admit when he's wrong or else he'll lose face in front of his playground friends. The important thing is that the REAL Firefly fans here believe me. You are nothing, wolfy. And as such, I really don't give a shit what you think. Simple. I realize that your ego prevents you from comprehending this and realizing your irrelevance, and so I feel sorry for you. You should really quit while you're ahead because you're NOT helping to promote Serenity which is pissing off the REAL Firefly fans. And upon realizing that you are NOT a REAL Firefly fan, I've decided that you are irrelevant. I liked Firefly, and so I will join the REAL Firefly fans and try to make it to the theater to see Serenity this weekend, especially after seeing the first 9 minutes online. But I'm sure that you'll accuse me of NOT having seen the 9-minute clip, claiming that any chimp with opposable thumbs could have downloaded the clip and watched it...
Oct. 13, 2005, 9:17 a.m. CST
SamFisher did a good job responding to this comment very nicely. He bitch-slapped you quite thoroughly and quite easily, so I have no need to go there. And you DO realize that, by saying what I've quoted in the subject line, you've effectively called YOURSELF a little bitch, right? Funny stuff. Again, irony is NOT working in your favor. So the lesson that you should learn here is not to randomly throw around insults until you've climbed the CHRONOLOGICAL ladder...
Oct. 13, 2005, 10:54 a.m. CST
Just...depending on who you've been listening to on these TalkBacks, your expectations might be set either too high or too low for 'Serenity.' In my opinion anyway. As a fan of the show, I've gotta say, I preferred the show, but if you like the show, you'll probably like this as well, to varying degrees. Be interested in hearing your take on it. Hope this TalkBack doesn't fall off the front page before you get around to seeing it.
Oct. 13, 2005, 12:29 p.m. CST
Yep. Just to piss you off. And drama queen? Let's see here... hmm... you're the only person who's ever said that to me in my entire life, including on internet boards where people with low self-esteem call other people names in the vain hope of growing pubic hair... you are a nobody who's alienated everybody on this talkback by being immature and obnoxious... you are irrelevant... hmm... I know that I may have yet to climb the evolutionary ladder (and have fun doing so), but at least I have the math skills (something that you should work on, by the way, just so that you know when to boast about box-office returns without making a fool of yourself, which is another unfortunate side-effect of inbreeding) to put 2 and 2 together and come up with I don't give a shit. But by all means, continue to stroke your ego by calling me names. It's very endearing!
Oct. 13, 2005, 12:32 p.m. CST
Wow, that was a lame response, wolfy. SamFisher must have bitch-slapped you harder than I thought...
Oct. 13, 2005, 12:49 p.m. CST
First of all, Ribbons, I have to say that it's nice to talk to a REAL Firefly fan who's not foaming at the mouth and "recruiting" casual Firefly fans who haven't seen the movie yet by telling them to "suck on that". You have spread the word to me and sold me on going to the theater to see Serenity. Unfortunately, I have accidentally read on another talkback about which two crew members die and also about Book's past - there were no spoiler warnings. So I'm going to keep my expectations reasonable (not too low, but not too high) when I go to see it. I'm interested to see what the deal is with River and what makes the Reavers so feared. And the large-scale space battle looks promising. But my expectations aren't too high. I'll let you know what I thought after I see it...
Oct. 13, 2005, 1:29 p.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
Nye, you are a bit of a drama queen, but at least your recent comment to Ribbons shows a few signs of humility. You're on your way back up to some civilized discourse, the reason talkbacks exist in the first place.
Oct. 13, 2005, 2:02 p.m. CST
Browncoats are REAL Firefly fans like Ribbons who don't alienate and attack the casual fans like myself. I refer to over-zealous and obnoxious Firefly "fans" like yourself as brown-starfishes. You're the only one who sees any irony here. Get over yourself...
Oct. 13, 2005, 2:16 p.m. CST
Yes, Lenny, I admit that I have acted somewhat in this way. And I apologize to you and others here who may have been put off by it. I hate to say it, but sometimes you have to stoop down to the level of the person that you are debating with in order for them to pay attention to you.
Oct. 13, 2005, 2:36 p.m. CST
Bnye and Wolf - I think you guys really need to find a (better) hobby fast! If you're a fan and are planning on going to see it, why did you waste your (and our) time going off on it? Trying to stretch out a dead talkback?
Oct. 13, 2005, 2:37 p.m. CST
Oct. 13, 2005, 2:44 p.m. CST
Hey, that's my specialty. Kirk or Picard? Discuss.
Oct. 13, 2005, 2:51 p.m. CST
Oct. 13, 2005, 3:53 p.m. CST
just want to point out a double standard: why is it that people immediately attack someone who pimps Serenity on non-related talkbacks, but when someone constantly attempts to get a conversation going on a Serenity talkback about something totally unrelated (like Trek), no one bats an eyelash. Double standard. Just sayin'
Oct. 13, 2005, 4:18 p.m. CST
Because Trek is cool. You don't want to read my long answer and I haven't the time to list the 1701 reasons why Trek instantly merits serious debate.
Oct. 13, 2005, 4:29 p.m. CST
There was a nice casual conversation that started as Serenity and then, because people were nice to each other, it delved onto other subjects. On the other hand, when serenity is mentioned in another talkback it's usually dropped in, no warning or progression, and usually goes 'Serenity will own this, own that etc'. anyway, it got back onto Serenity in the end.
Oct. 13, 2005, 5:39 p.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
Try it out some time. You may surprise yourself. Otherwise, people lower on the boards will simply mistake you for a troll instead of somebody with something to say. I'm not sure why I'm trying to bring a little civility back to the board. Maybe it's because at this point in my life negative energy just drains me. And I'm only 22. Trying to avoid an ulcer, you know? Maybe I should get out of the film industry. Oh well.
Oct. 13, 2005, 5:58 p.m. CST
*ATTENTION* IF YOU WATCH THIS, YOU ARE SAD. SO VERY SAD. *ATTENTION*
Oct. 13, 2005, 7:40 p.m. CST
Just because...at Box Office Mojo, it's the #1 movie in the user grade menu. Seriously. However, the sample size is pretty small compared to the movies it's just above, so I expect this to drop (more on this in a second). IMDB, which, of course, has a larger sample size, has Serenity with an 8.1, tied with movies like Forrest Gump, the Graduate, and Return of the Jedi. Now, even though the current sample size is high (16,000+), I expect the number to drop to 8.0 or 7.9 before all is said and done, but either number will keep Serenity in the top 200 on IMDB. Why do I expect the number to drop? For new releases, people who see (and grade) it first are those who are most interested in the movie...as a result, they're usually pre-disposed to it. As time goes on, those who are able to judge it more objectively will rank it lower so that the score will ultimately drop. This, of course, won't always hold true, but I think in Serenity's case it will.
Oct. 13, 2005, 7:41 p.m. CST
Serenity currently ranks above all the Star Trek films, and will likely stay above them all. I'm just saying.
Oct. 13, 2005, 10:17 p.m. CST
Serenity above Khan?! FC?! Blasphemy I say!
Oct. 14, 2005, 5:31 a.m. CST
The post - RE: What the hell are you talking about Shermdawg? All of you trekkers need to be exposed to the sad truth that, that beloved movie of yours is a sham, a farce, a rehash, and most certainly A RIPOFF OF ALIENS!!! Scene for freakin' scene! Check my post for the truth. Resistance to do so is FUTILE!!!
Oct. 14, 2005, 5:32 a.m. CST
Oct. 14, 2005, 6 a.m. CST
The Wrath of Khan is one of THE greatest sci-fi movies ever made. It's highly watchable even if you are not a Star Trek fan. But we'll agree to disagree on FC which was mediocre at best.
Oct. 14, 2005, 9 a.m. CST
Don't get smart with me, boy.
Oct. 14, 2005, 1:31 p.m. CST
Oct. 14, 2005, 2:42 p.m. CST
Stephen King loves Serenity. I guess he says so on his website.
Oct. 14, 2005, 3:30 p.m. CST
It is only fitting borg gets the last word before this is kicked off the home page. God I love TREK.
Oct. 14, 2005, 4:45 p.m. CST
I loved me some Trek back in the day, but let's face it - Trek is DEAD! It's dead, Jim! Bring on the new scifi!
Oct. 14, 2005, 4:51 p.m. CST
...so will TREK rise. Bring on the new TREK!
Oct. 14, 2005, 5:02 p.m. CST
Oct. 14, 2005, 5:23 p.m. CST
I just don't think anyone (well, outside of cutest_of_borg) will care. The gave up on a great show, why should I watch their inevitable BSG clone?
Oct. 14, 2005, 5:39 p.m. CST
B&B MUST go... And oisin5199 other sci-fi CAN exist with Trek too. Hey FireFly failed, it happens, I still miss Space:A&B, Now & Again and a whole bunch more. With Lost, we have a BUNCH of new sci-fi this season, some of it pretty good too. I thought with the end of Trek and some other shows last season, that our sci-fi choices would have been pretty thin this year, but I have been pleasantly surprised.
Oct. 14, 2005, 7:05 p.m. CST
Enterprise was definitely on the track to greatness. It was a damn shame as the show became my second favorite Trek after the orginal series.It is all about the characters and there was a real bond growing between these seven. I still think an original remake is the way to go as long as they don't try to "noir it up". Some wiseass out there recommended Gary Sinise as McCoy. Brilliant, actually. Now if they can only get him out of his CSI contract.
Oct. 14, 2005, 8:20 p.m. CST
Don't know the name of it, but it was the one where Mal and Zoe's old war buddy comes back ( initially as a corpse ) and it is revealed that he is smuggling black market organs. The ending to this episode was amazing. Gotta say, it's my favorite episode so far, well other than "Out Of Gas". If every episode could have been on par with those two, the show might have lasted.
Oct. 14, 2005, 9:16 p.m. CST
Shermdawg, I HIGHLY doubt that you watched this episode. ANY chimp with opposable thumbs could have found an episode review on any one of a MILLION Firefly fan sites on the web. Sorry, guys! I couldn't resist! ;-) Please don't start swearing at me in whatever Oriental language they use to curse with in Firefly! I've got strawberries!
Oct. 15, 2005, 12:06 p.m. CST
If I had got a review online, I'd know the name of the episode, wouldn't I? I watched Firefly, then watched bits and pieces of WWE Friday Night Smackdown! while I played Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PC), which I picked up for $5.
Oct. 15, 2005, 5:39 p.m. CST
He was poking fun. Scroll up and take a look at some of the words he and wolf at the door exchanged and you'll see what I mean.
Oct. 15, 2005, 6:37 p.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
During the filming, they found out about the cancellation, so I believe, and so the funeral scene at the end is particularly appropriate.
Oct. 16, 2005, 9:01 a.m. CST
Sorry, Sherm. I thought that you were very involved with the "debate" between myself and wolf at the door. I was just poking fun at how he doesn't believe that I've seen the series. I meant no harm. Honest!
Oct. 16, 2005, 6:21 p.m. CST
Oct. 16, 2005, 10:19 p.m. CST
by Acerbic Norseman
Kicked ass! I just saw it and was blown away. Jayne is hilarious, he had some funny lines. I also loved it when the Alliance got the little suprise when they were waiting for Serenity to come out of the cloud. Great movie! Why was this show cancelled? Another season of Charmed anyone?