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Moriarty Finds A Little SERENITY! But Will The Fans'!

Hi, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab...

SERENITY fans scare me.

I’ve enjoyed Joss Whedon’s work for a while now. When I first met Hercules The Strong, the first thing that we bonded over was BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER, which we both confessed a fondness for. At the time, the show was in its fourth year, I think, and there was still the feeling that it was this underrated secret happening on Tuesday nights. Running into another fan was fun because you could finally talk about it without having people stare at you like you’d just shit in their hands. I had a wildly mixed reaction to ANGEL during its time on the air, but I think its last season was one of the best things on TV that year, and it really allowed the show to go out on a high note.

When FIREFLY hit the air, I didn’t watch it. I tried one episode, but the way Fox scheduled it and the way they treated it in subsequent weeks kept me from tuning in again. It seemed like too much work to even find the thing, much less to sort out the chronology of something that had obviously been gooched by the network from day one. It wasn’t until they put the series out on DVD that I was able to give it a chance...

... and I liked it. A lot. In fact, that Christmas, I ended up giving away ten or twelve copies of the box set to friends and family so that they could give it a chance themselves. I’ve been a voracious reader of science-fiction since I was a kid, and for the most part, SF on TV has always been for children. I had to laugh when Harry listed off the shows he thought were superior to FIREFLY the other day, like AUTOMAN or MAN FROM ATLANTIS or MISFITS OF SCIENCE. TV has been a wasteland for science-fiction for much of my life, and that sort of juvenile lowest-common-denominator dreck is exactly why. FIREFLY was obviously inspired by SF literature, and not previous TV shows. The approach to history, culture, and science in the show was impressive, and I liked that it was dense. You had to really pay attention to mine all the information in each episode, and it rewarded repeat viewings.

Hercules and I were invited to visit the set of SERENITY when they were shooting the film at Universal, and it was admittedly pretty cool to tour the actual ship set, a fairly massive fully-encompassing environment. I’m used to sets that are broken up so that they don’t feel real when you stand on them. That wasn’t the case with the Serenity, though. You could walk from one end to the other, and then walk across a set into another much larger set, and all of it felt interconnected. The day we were there, we saw them shooting the scene where River (Summer Glau) sees a video screen with something on it, and it triggers a very particular reaction in her. I’m tiptoeing around the spoiler because it’s a pretty big moment in the movie. As we watched, we talked with Nathan Fillion, who plays Mal, the ship’s captain, and also with Joss and with producer Barry Mandel. Watching Herc wheel himself around the sets, seeing him face to face with Joss Whedon, it was a pretty remarkable moment. He was a happy, happy man. He was definitely the most outwardly expressive Whedon fan on the set that day.

In the months since then, as they’ve done the sneak screenings on these movies around the country and the... god, do I really have to call you “Browncoats”? Even “Trekkie” has more dignity as a nomenclature. Whatever you call yourselves, you’ve spent the time since the first screening slowly but surely poisoning the rest of fandom with an aggressive, obnoxious zeal that makes even the most heavily made-up dude speaking Klingon at a convention at the Ramada seem middle-of-the-road and normal. You’ve had some truly horrific spokespeople preaching the gospel of SERENITY in a way that had almost convinced me not to even see it before opening weekend, so I could just sit this one out. Once the invite came for the all-media, though, I knew I wanted to see it there, hoping that, for once, a theater full of media reporters would be the perfect atmosphere.

Ultimately, I think SERENITY will appeal most directly to those who are already converted. I don’t think this is going to transform everyone into raving SERENITY lunatics. This isn’t going to be a white-hot cultural phenomenon. This isn’t going to be breaking any records. But it may spawn some sequels, and it will definitely keep the SERENITY cult alive and well for a while, and if Universal’s done their job right setting up this weekend, it might even open to a surprising number.

As a fan of FIREFLY, I thought the film did a really nice job of expanding and enhancing the mythology of the show that already exists. As an impartial observer, I thought the opening ten minutes did a nice job of setting up what the uninitiated need to know, even if it is a bit dense with exposition. As a fan, I liked what they did with almost every character. The only places that felt like they were just shoehorned in were the romantic moments between Kaylee (Jewel Staite) and Simon (Sean Maher) and between Mal and Inara (Morena Baccarin). This is not a long film. Every scene is pushing the story forward. Those interludes feel too calculated to really carry any impact in the film. I know, I know... if Whedon didn’t include them, half his fanbase would have torn up the theater seats and slashed the screens in fury. He writes great soap opera, and I’d have more respect for the hardest of the hardcore if they would admit that the soap opera is what keeps them hooked like crackheads. It’s always been Whedon’s secret weapon on his TV shows. The reason BUFFY Seasons Two and Three are generally the best liked of the entire run is because it’s the most intense blend of soap opera and horror, with the end of the whole Giles/Jenny arc giving Joss his first truly defining moment. His work depends on you building long-term relationships with the characters, so that when he abuses them and when he torments them and when he tests them, you empathize deeply. You can’t help it. You’re completely sucked in, and it’s the soap opera of it, the “Ohmygodnohedidn’tjustdothat” of it. Still, I think the film would have been stronger if it had been implied more than overt. It’s the one place where newcomers to the material are really going to feel like they’ve walked in on the middle of something.

Again... treading lightly so as not to ruin whatever surprises there are for you as a viewer, I’ll say that I like that the movie plays rough. Still, it only really affects me as a FIREFLY fan. As an impartial observer, I’d have to say that I wasn’t really sure why the particular deaths that may or may not happen, as many or as few as there might be, don’t strike me that hard because not enough time was spent in the film setting up why these relationships, whatever they are, are important. As a fan, I was really surprised by some of the choices, and I like that there’s a permanence here that no comic book or early Whedon TV show would have promised. I get the feeling that people stay dead in the world of SERENITY.

Jack Green, who shot the film, does a heck of a good job of trying to spice up Whedon’s shooting style, and there are many places where it works. There’s a different energy here than on Whedon’s TV shows. There’s a different sort of propulsive quality to his style. The best set pieces really cut together nicely, like an early escape from a Reaver ship after a robbery. It’s a little bit STAGECOACH, it’s a little bit RETURN OF THE JEDI. There are all sorts of obvious influences in this picture, everything from BLADE RUNNER and THE FIFTH ELEMENT to WWII films. Whedon’s not a blatant thief, though. He’s just a guy who loves a lot of the same things I do, and who’s definitely running his own riffs on certain ideas. It seems like the comic book world supports this sort of creativity most. It’s what made Frank Miller famous. Kurt Busiek’s ASTRO CITY is one of my favorite ongoing examples. Alan Moore is sort of the gold standard of this kind of writer. They take characters or archetypes and they bend and twist them to see what happens. It’s a reaction to pop culture that actually contributes something new instead of just being a regurgitation. For that alone, I think Whedon deserves some credit. I don’t think this is anywhere near as sweeping or epic as STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE tried to be. That film was aiming at 2001 as the high watermark to match or even beat. With STAR TREK 2, though, they were working to launch a film franchise. They wanted to get new viewers onboard, and they wanted to make you care, and they wanted to get you hooked into the larger story of what’s going to happen to all these characters, and they had to survive on their own, mavericks, completely out from anyone else’s control. That’s the sort of film that SERENITY wants to be, and as such, I think it’s pretty successful. I don’t think SERENITY’s had time to build the same size cult as STAR TREK, and I can only imagine how much more obnoxious you’re going to be if that does happen, so for now, I don’t think this is going to cross over to quite the same size of mainstream acceptance.

But give it some time. This is a rich world. There are so many things that sell me on it. I love the use of the Chinese slang. It says a lot about what sort of political or economic changes the world may have been through before the events of this film even began. It’s a great way to make the world more persuasive, and that sort of attention to detail is what sells the reality for me.

I think the third act sort of stinks, and while I like the idea of Mr. Universe as a character, David Krumholtz is deeply miscast. I don’t believe him as this guy connected to everything, watching everything. He’s too young, too sane, too unaffected. I wish the film had played with the character and the idea of the signal in a smarter way, like an intergalactic NETWORK. Mal and his crew are mad as hell, and they’re not going to take it anymore. Instead, it devolves into a fist fight and a gun fight, and while both are staged well, neither ultimately worked for me. I thought it was too much sound and fury when the film should be getting down to its big ideas, some real human drama. It seems like the build-up is all so cool, so interesting, that it almost can’t help but be a disappointment when it turns into just another action movie.

I had a good time. I enjoyed most of the film. My gripes are small gripes, and it’s more a reaction to the things I liked than it is any major complaint. I just wanted more. I wanted it to be a great movie, and not just a good one. I think it’s a heck of an extension of what’s come before, and I hope the fanbase is enough to make the film a modest hit in theaters and a continual hit on DVD. I hope the fanbase is enough for us to get a second movie, since I think this cast is just warming up, and telling a story without having to handle all the introductions could set them free to do something much cooler. And having said all of that, the “Browncoats” are still going to be abusive and unpleasant and pushy and belligerent in the Talkback below. If they’re not, I’ll be openly amazed. They’ve hijacked Talkback after Talkback on wildly unrelated topics, so I’m sure they’ll do the same here. That’s a shame, and if anything keeps people away from theaters this weekend, it will be the zealotry of a fanbase that makes others feel unwelcome, even if they’re enjoying the same thing you are.

I’ve still got to finish transcribing my Cronenberg interview, so I’ll get back to that. Until then...

"Moriarty" out.

Readers Talkback
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  • Sept. 30, 2005, 2:20 a.m. CST

    I saw a brown coat...

    by Some Dude

    ...of sludge at the bottom of the terlet. I really hope this movie is better than it looks.

  • And he came out the cinema stunned at at least one of the deaths. Because he did get sucked in. Maybe timing is all? But he didn't have the investment from the series - the writing/performances did it for him. WHich is probably why I am currently minus one DVD set !

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 2:28 a.m. CST


    by drew mcweeny

    I haven't watched BG yet, but I got the box set, and I just finished the mini-series today. So far, so good. I'll give it all a chance because people have been effusive, but never obnoxious. No one's ever written me an e-mail threating to burn my house down because of something I said about BATTLESTAR GALACTICA... unlike some shows...

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 2:28 a.m. CST

    Hey Mo...

    by Man-in-the-Box

    Nice review. I'm now somewhat looking forward to this, not rabid mind you. I'll pick it up on DVD later.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 2:33 a.m. CST


    by Man-in-the-Box

    I don't need a TV show to inspire me to burn down your house. I'll do it for no reason whatsoever. I do like fire.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 2:40 a.m. CST

    It IS true that Firefly has some ridiculously obnoxious fans

    by Praetor

    I really admired the series on DVD but the repulsive militancy of these people means I will NOT be watching the movie this weekend; I am genuinely bothered at the thought of the people I might find with me at the theatre.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 2:45 a.m. CST

    That's it Praetor

    by Man-in-the-Box

    You've done it now. I must burn down your house.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 2:50 a.m. CST

    I can't afford a house..

    by Praetor

    You can burn down my box if you like.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 2:55 a.m. CST

    a little mood music please

    by Man-in-the-Box

    Watch out you might get what you're after Cool babies strange but not a stranger I'm an ordinary guy Burning down the house Hold tight wait till the party's over Hold tight We're in for nasty weather There has got to be a way Burning down the house Here's your ticket pack your bag: time for jumpin' overboard The transportation is here Close enough but not too far, Maybe you know where you are Fightin' fire with fire All wet hey you might need a raincoat Shakedown dreams walking in broad daylight Three hun-dred six-ty five de-grees Burning down the house It was once upon a place sometimes I listen to myself Gonna come in first place People on their way to work baby what did you except Gonna burst into flame My house S'out of the ordinary That's might Don't want to hurt nobody Some things sure can sweep me off my feet Burning down the house No visible means of support and you have not seen nuthin' yet Everything's stuck together I don't know what you expect starring into the TV set Fighting fire with fire

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3 a.m. CST

    Angel Season 5 is not the best

    by Neo Zeed

    Season 4 was the best, It was what the awesome first three seasons was building towards.. Reign of Fire, (wes two gun action), the Faith arc, Skip's secret allegencies, no more monster of the week (like 24 or Lost) etc and that Cordy/Connor shit not a problem cause she was friggin'possessed (Sorry, but people forget that all the time for some reason)... Season 5 the had network retool and reduced budget, monster of the weak B.S. Intangible Spike, fired Cordelia, and rushed finale. I think only Buffy separatists (like Herc) like that season the best cause it was some jumping on point, 'cause of Spike. Still good TV but not the best season by far. You gotta battle 2,3,4 for that prize.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:01 a.m. CST

    Serenity BITES!!!

    by abigaildb69

    What the Crap!!!! These "Browncoats" must not have any sort of life in order to be so vicious about a simple TV Movie that is being played in theaters. I mean come on.. no one ever got this worked up over Buck Rodgers or the Old Battlestar Galactica and they we nothing more than TV movies played in Theaters. Oh wait... they were about on par, lookwise with Serenity!!!! So these "BrownNosers" I mean coats need to move out of their parents basements and get a life. I mean come on... there is more to life than Serenity. Think about it... Robogeek calls it the best movie of the year!!@#@!!#@ What the hell does he know about movies if he thinks this is the best Hollywood can do. Grow Up you all and go see a real movie made by a REAL DIRECTOR... Spend your $10 bucks on "A History of Violence". That's a real work of Art....

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:08 a.m. CST

    Again, maybe it's a bias thing...

    by Ribbons

    ...but there's no way the "Browncoats" (keep in mind that this is not something that I like to call myself but am doing so right now for brevity's sake) are the only belligerent ones on Whedon-related TalkBacks. It's quite possible that you've gotten nasty e-mails from crazed fans of the man, and it's definitely true that there are some members of the constituency who are downright pathological, but the particular tone of these TalkBacks is more complicated than that. It's gotten to the point where I think both "sides" think they're the ones pushing back. I know, boo-hoo, wah wah, world's tiniest violin, whatever, but just watch. You can't blame all the ugliness in these TalkBacks on the hostility of fans of the show. I regret contributing to it for my part, and probably will try something new and stay out of the fray this time as it's done nothing but create ulcers in the pit of my stomach. To reiterate in closing: I like "Firefly." I imagine I'll like 'Serenity,' but that remains to be seen. If you don't like the show I have nothing against you or your opinions, nor is it a big deal in any case; nothing about it is earth-shattering, and the flaws that people ascribe to the show are pretty much all there, but it can be affecting depending on what your mood is; the epitome of niche, practically. But I do get... "belligerent" when people expect me to feel like enjoying the show is akin to enjoying child pornography, or when people who wouldn't normally give a rat's ass about the show one way or another bust the balls of its fans because they've managed to figure out that they're everybody else's whipping boys and it feels good to have somebody lower than them on the food chain (and if you haven't seen any of that in "Firefly" TalkBacks, you haven't been looking hard enough). Finding serenity: nice in theory, tough in execution. But I'm tired of fighting. I hope this thread can remain relatively civil, but getting worked up over it doesn't seem to make much difference either way. In any case, I'll try to take my own advice. Serenity now?

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:11 a.m. CST


    by Man-in-the-Box

    You're next on my house burning list. If this keeps up, I'll surely have a busy week. I won't be in the basement for quite some time.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:15 a.m. CST

    Hey Ribbons

    by Man-in-the-Box

    Let's go burn some houses, It'll make you feel much better.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:18 a.m. CST

    And yes...

    by Ribbons

    ...I've had run-ins with some of the (more) crazies. Some dude at the local video store went off on me because I said I didn't know if I'd be seeing 'Serenity' this weekend. "Why?! Do you have anything better planned?!" Et cetera. I don't really understand it either.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:19 a.m. CST


    by Ribbons

    You bring the matches, I'll bring the gasoline. Burn motherfucka, burn!!

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:23 a.m. CST

    Should be fun big R

    by Man-in-the-Box

    I just don't know how to get to Serenity this weekend, as I'll be very busy lighting fires. Did I mention that I like fires.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:26 a.m. CST

    There's never a wrong time to mention you like fires

    by Ribbons

    ...or something...

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:27 a.m. CST

    As I said in another talkback....

    by Andy Dufresne

    ....I am a huge Whedon fan and FF fan. But I do find it dis-tasteful when people get militant just because someone doesn't get it. That's what fiction is about. Making people passionate. It will ever get EVERYONE. Live and let Live. Moriarty, you giving away the DVD's ais a good way to try and recruit fans. Those who get all freaky and violent are not worth the time. And Battlestar Galactica rules, check out the Serenity cameo in the mini-series when the President learns she has cancer.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:31 a.m. CST


    by Man-in-the-Box

    can we get back on topic here please? We're talking about fires. Fire is pretty.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:31 a.m. CST

    Are you new to the internet?

    by IMMORTAL-1

    Sure, the hardcore fans are very vocal but I wouldn't say they are the majority. You want to see scary fans head over to some of the Major League Baseball boards. Go to some boards where they talk about reality shows when people's favorites get eliminated. I also think by addressing the fans the way you did you're just inviting them to "hijack" the thread instead of talking about the content of your review. Speaking of which, I think the best point you made was saying that this is an orgin story that hopes to set up a franchise. I think if people went in with that expectation they will walk away feeling they got their money's worth and looking foward to a second film.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:36 a.m. CST


    by Man-in-the-Box

    Mori did not invite the fans to hijack the tb by how he addressed them. He invited me to hijack the thread by mentioning burning down his house.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:39 a.m. CST

    Sorry man-in-the-box

    by Andy Dufresne

    Fire is cool. Hot but cool.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:46 a.m. CST

    That's the duality,

    by Man-in-the-Box

    of fire that makes it so beautiful.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 4:09 a.m. CST

    Man in the box

    by optimus122

    Please set yourself on fire asswipe..

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 4:12 a.m. CST


    by Man-in-the-Box

    that wasn't very nice. I humbly decline your suggestion, but thanks for playing.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 4:17 a.m. CST

    Whoa there, optimus

    by Ribbons

    Where'd that come from? Man-in-the-Box and I were having a nice, kooky chat and you had to go and spoil it by being a jerkbag. Thanks a lot, jerkbag.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 4:21 a.m. CST

    I fault the parents.

    by Man-in-the-Box

    This kind of thing starts in the home. Speaking of which, why don't we burn down his home.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 4:24 a.m. CST

    Nah, that's okay

    by Ribbons

    I appreciate the offer, but I'm too tired to be running around makin' mischief at this hour.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 4:25 a.m. CST

    I won't go and see this at the cinema because of the Brownco

    by supertoyslast

    Moriarty's certainly right about that. I'll wait for the DVD instead. Unless these "fans" in talkbacks have really been Whedon-haters trying to put people off. In which case they did a very good job indeed.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 4:33 a.m. CST

    Toys Last

    by Man-in-the-Box

    I have my doubts as to whether those tbers are capable of such a dubious scheme. Reverse psychology might be to lofty a goal for these sorts. Not to mention, I really doubt that they could come together in such a huge conspiracy. Hey Ribbons how about tomorrow? We could burn down Opti's pad and be home in time for dinner.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 4:42 a.m. CST

    by Ribbons

    Only if you're paying for dinner. Gasoline costs an arm and a leg these days. We'll be eating at Ruth's Chris, of course.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 4:46 a.m. CST

    By all means

    by Man-in-the-Box

    I also wanted to mention that the Frye (sp) avatar rocks. Oops, wrong place.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 6:05 a.m. CST

    To Moriarty with Un-Love...

    by WillowFan2001

    Hey, from a Browncoat who hasn't hijacked any threads...who just wants to go see Serenity opening weekend because I love Whedon and Firefly, and I think it'll be dare you! You've gone from my favorite to least-favorite reviewer like that. Not that you care, but if you can ever manage to pull your head out of your ass, an apology would be nice. And as to the rest of you, sure, get your cheapshots in. Whatever makes you feel like you actually have balls, I suppose. Forgive us for actually caring about something.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 6:13 a.m. CST


    by MemBirdman

    Good to see you're not taking an opinion personally.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:10 a.m. CST

    Hey I like Firefly too...

    by Wungolioth

    But Mori's right, there seems to be a thin line sometimes between a Brown Coat and a Brown Shirt(and if you don't know what that means, smack yourself). That said, I will still see this on opening weekend because I'd like my money voting for more original sci-fi. The downside is that Hollywood will see this as a TV show converted to a movie, and as a result of any success we'll end up with all those awful shows Harry mentioned in his review as movies next.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:18 a.m. CST


    by Wungolioth

    Someone beat to the browncoats/shirts thing, ah well.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:20 a.m. CST

    the shrink: Re: Movies from TV flops

    by TheTARDIS

    Police Squad gets 6 episodes... then goes on to a successful film franchise. I'm not saying it's common, or that Firefly/Serenity has anything in common with Police Squad, just that it's happened before. AFWIW if anyone can bring a product back from the dead just to prove a point, it's Joss "Buffy" Whedon. I like Firefly, I saw the aired eps and I've rewatched a couple on Sci-Fi and I like them more after second viewing. I think it's refreshingly original and I'll be seeing the movie tonight. I'm not going to let obnoxious fans control my actions. Anyone who doesn't go see the thing because some losers on a talkback were acting like losers on a talkback are just continuing to play the talkback loser game. IMO anyway.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:22 a.m. CST

    It's not just the Browncoat's fault

    by photoboy

    These things always go downhill. It usually starts like this: Non-fan: I watched a couple of episodes of Firefly and I didn't like it. Browncoat: You should try to borrow the DVDs or watch it on Sci-Fi. You don't get a really good appreciation of the show until you've seen 6 or so episodes. Non-fan: I might try that... I don't know. Troll: Joos Weedon sux teh big 0ne1!1!eleven. And beyond that it just turns into some flamewar with the person who might have watched the show sat in the middle watching a bunch of petty squabbling. It makes the Firefly fans look bad and the trolls just slink off and snigger. The trouble is that Joss Whedon basically asked the fans to get the word out to non-fans, the movie isn't having lots of advertising money lavished on it and not many saw the show when it was on TV. So the fans have taken that as a rallying cry to try and tell people about the show. Obviously some have taken it too far. I read a lot of different boards and I have only ever seen serious zealotry about Firefly here. Most Firefly fans are not anything like that, many just genuinely want to share a show they think many more would enjoy if they gave it a chance. The show's Captain Reynold's whole character was about wanting to be left alone to do your own thing, and many fans would agree with that philosophy. It's just a minor vocal bunch who are spoiling it for everyone else so please don't assume all Firefly fans are mad zealots.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:24 a.m. CST

    "Obnoxious", that's the word I used in Harry's thread

    by I Dunno

    "OMFG!! Harry said he liked it but he didn't say he would cum on its face! You suck!" I'm glad that unlike a lot of TBers, I give an overhyped movie a chance instead of going straight to the backlash or I'd never see this. I wouldn't let it stop me from seeing it opening weekend. Are you guys afraid of them or something? Maybe I'll show up dressed as Darth Maul or Worf, start a proper geek riot. Oh and I'd drop the "Browncoat" thing. What the hell is that? You sound more Nazi-like than you already are. Anyway, when I think of brown coats in sci-fi I think the original Battlestar Galactica.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:26 a.m. CST


    by thomasgaffney

    I agree that people shouldn't assume anything about Firefly fans and mad zealots. I, for one, am a mad zealot, but I don't like Firefly. So don't lump those browncoats with us zealots as we go about with our madness.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:29 a.m. CST

    moriarty, i have a joke for you...

    by jig98

    what do you get when you mix a bad sitcom with a good drama?....LOST IN SPACE HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. FUNNY SHIT HUH? ANYWAY, just to let you know i love this freakin website and i love coming here everyday.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:36 a.m. CST

    This Talkback Won't Really Take Off Until Tonay / Tubgirl To

    by ZombieSolutions

    btw, things are looking really good for SERENITY. maybe some of the fans go over the top, but personally, but i think it's cool that so many people are so into it and so psyched. instead of trying to convince them that they're wrong, why not stand back and smile that a bunch of people are really happy and excited? personally, i like when people are happy and excited about geeky things. it warms my zombie heart. think about this way: another successful sci-fi franchise means that there'll be more cool stuff on the way. i only wish i had been able to see all the shows before the movie.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:37 a.m. CST


    by AeroB

    ...I think it's a little one-sided to single out "Browncoats" for hijacking threads when there are literally dozens of bashers on this side who blindly hate anything with the name Whedon attached to it just because it is, and aren't afraid to spam any talkback involving him about it. You're right that Firefly fans can get pretty ludicrous at times, however on this site I've only really noticed one serious offender--JossIsGod aka TheMasterWhedon etc etc etc. What a troll.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:51 a.m. CST

    Talkback Hijack

    by thomasgaffney

    I don't know why people will think the talkback will be hijacked by browncoats this early in the morning (east coast time). They're all in line to see Serenity already. Wait until later tonight when they've seen it two or three times to come back and scream that we all should see it.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:56 a.m. CST


    by MaguaSynfield

    Rather than a sequel, I'd rather see Firefly restart as a series, preferrablly on the Sci_Fi Channel. Things were really warming up when Fox ( stupid $%#@ dumb ass &^*^%$# brainless turds that they are) pulled the plug. And to those posters who think talking about burning peoples houses down & thinking its funny - guess you've never been in a burning house or lost a loved one in a fire. Its really not that funny.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:57 a.m. CST

    A bit underwhelmed about the reviews here

    by The Paladin

    Don't take my title the wrong way... Usually when Joss writes and directs anything, it is either IMO in Hercs scale, 5 stars better than we deserve, or close to it. I am not surprised that Harry did not love it, but I expected Mori to be more enthusiastic than his cautious reserved attitude. I would really like to hear a review from Herc, and hear what he has to say about this one. ---------------------------------- ---------------------------------- And Mori is absolutely right about the Serenity fans being way too zealous. IMO Firefly had a good start, but where it was left off was no where near close to equaling the greatness of Buffy and Angel. Still you hear all these posters saying Firefly rocks, Buffy and Angel suck. Spoiler ahead --------------------------------- Spoiler ahead --------------------------------- Spoiler ahead --------------------------------- I must admit, I read about the "deaths" ahead of time, and I understand why Joss chose those characters. I didn't have as much trouble accepting it as others here do, "indiscriminantly killing off characters" (not necessairly from this talkback). ---------------------------------- ---------------------------------- ---------------------------------- Anyway, I still can't wait to see this one later on today.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 8:11 a.m. CST

    Ribbons is right, gasoline is too expensive

    by The Dude Abides

    let's dynamite the moterhfucker!

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 8:19 a.m. CST


    by idledead

    1) USA Today is for retards who can't read the news without a pie chart. 2) Burning houses ARE funny. 3) When you say "Belligerent Browncoats", you're pretty much talking about one troll. You can't judge an entire fanbase by one troll on one message board. Well, you can, but you shouldn't. 5) Browncoat is a pretty dumb name for a fanbase. 6) The movie's really good.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 8:20 a.m. CST


    by Vision

    Its interesting to say you much prefer the characters in 24, Lost, Alias and Battlestar Galactica. I don't, the are mostly superficial in series solely creted to make money - where as Firefly was leaps and bounds better in almost all aspects, including the 'having a message' department.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 8:20 a.m. CST


    by fxmulder35

    You know...folks are silly if they take ANYTHING said by a reviewer or a talkbacker SERIOUSLY. Since when do folks make decisions based on what somebody ELSE says. If it looks cool....go take a shot. Anything read on this site or any other comparable site, needs to be taken with a deep breath and a grain of salt. Just chill and enjoy the experience...or not. Just make up your OWN mind...never let anyone talk you out of seeing what you want.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 8:22 a.m. CST

    Point #4

    by idledead

    Farscape was a better show than Firefly, but only because it had enough of a run to really find itself.

  • I like Joss Whedon's shows, I liked Buffy (not as crazy about season 4 through 7, but there were great highlights), I agree with Moriarty about Angel, and I grew to love Firefly just as it was taken away. I admit, the melodrama IS a big part of it. Watching Buffy fight Angel or Faith and all the while wanting them to be allies was GREAT. But it didn't work all the time; the melodrama on Buffy got tedious towards the end, and I was never fond of the Angel/Connor/Cordelia stuff. And there wasn't much time to establish melodrama on Firefly, but what was there worked great (Mal and Serenity, Mal and Inara, Kaylee and Simon to a lesser extent). And yet, my feeling has been all along that the reviews would be "good but not great." I just never believed Whedon was going to hit that level with Serenity, certainly not for the critics. But now I'm surprised. The reviews have skewed more to the positive than the negative. Is that because of the hostility of the fans? Are these guys afraid? It sure feels like their walking on eggshells. For what it's worth, I know that Joss's stuff can be enjoyed even when you don't like all of it--in fact the criticisms are part of what makes it entertaining. That's how Buffy and Angel both were at times. Discussing it was as much if not more fun than actually watching it. I wonder if that works on the big screen. +++++++++++++++++++ Are Browncoats really worse than Star Wars fans? REALLY?? Because Star Wars fans kicked up a real shitstorm in 99 that lasted a long while. Even the Matrix sequels didn't generate that much strife. Browncoats might seem ubiquitous, but I honestly don't know how they're worse than other fandoms, particularly on Talkbacks where things have gotten pretty hairy. Heck, the talkbacks for Spielberg's AI were more frustrating. Maybe it's because I don't disagree with the browncoats love for the material. I haven't agreed with Star Wars fans since the prequels started.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 8:46 a.m. CST


    by ripper t. jones

    Youse is sum purddy smart peoples.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 8:50 a.m. CST

    "Hercules and I were invited to visit the set of SERENITY " + "W

    by performingmonkey

    You gotta admit, Whedonites are gonna see this, just like they're suddenly gonna watch Smallville thanks to James Marsters as Brainiac. Also, I never believe reviews where the guys visited the set. Sorry. I'm gonna see this and give it a chance doesn't seem that great unless you've seen Firefly.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 8:51 a.m. CST

    My coat is a brownish color...

    by Mick The Knife

    ...and I'm not afraid to admit it. It's a pity Mori's had bad run-ins with the vocal assholes among us. I went to Dragon Con, where there was a contingent of upwards of 7,000-10,000 Firefly/Serenity fans. They were fun to talk to, and never pushy or obnoxious. Of course, I can understand where Mori's coming from...I mean, he has to deal with Herc on a regular basis. ;)

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 9:07 a.m. CST

    Rotten Tomatoes Has It At 80-pecent positive

    by Hercules

    83-percent positive reviews in the "cream of the crop" column, including thumbs up from Roger Ebert, Entertainment Weekly, The New York Times, The Chicago Tribune, The Philadephia Inquirer, Newsday, The Village Voice, The Arizona Republic, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution and The Minneapolis Tribune. The only two "cream of the crop" negatives so far are USA Today (the Claudia Puig two-star review someone was nice enough to single out and post above) and Variety.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 9:09 a.m. CST

    If you judge a film by whether or not you enjoyed it, as opposed

    by FluffyUnbound

    ...then you can, in fact, "judge a film by its fan base". If encounters with browncoats and immersive buffyversists have left a bad taste in your mouth about all things Whedon, it is likely that you would sit through SERENITY smoldering with pent-up disdain. This would make you not enjoy the film, and if someone asked you about it, you would say, "I didn't like it," or "It was OK, I guess, but it didn't blow me away." Enjoyment of just about anything in general [but, I would say, sci-fi and fantasy in particular] requires you to open up to the material in a spirit of good will. And by the way, both Harry and Moriarty have given the film positive reviews. If they were to be tomatometered, they would be "fresh" reviews. They just aren't ecstatic or rave reviews. [And actually, the distance between a positive, but reserved, review and an ecstatic rave will often be something purely subjective that the viewer brings in with him, like not liking a fanbase, or liking / not liking a particular actor or director].

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 9:30 a.m. CST

    A Better Review

    by Sean38

    This review was, in my mind, a little more balanced than Harry's. With Harry's, it was OBVIOUS his dislike for the rabid fanbase (and they can be a bit much) colored his perception of the film. It was as if he decided to give it a middling review before he even saw it, just so he could give a middle finger to the hardcore fans. Judging from the talkbacks...mission accomplished. But not a review anyone can take seriously. At least Moriarty's review disclosed his contempt for the fan base upfront. Though for a counterpoint to Moriarty's point of view, check out the article in Wednesday's USA Today where a columnist said that the press screening of Serenity she went to restored her faith in going to see movies that theaters again. Not all (nor most) Firefly fans are boderline lunatics.

  • Somewhere along the way Whedon appears to have forgotten what it was about. It's still a damn good sci-fi film, but in a lot of places it just didn't feel like Firefly (or nearly as good) to me. I have no doubt a lot of fans will blindly hail it right now, but when they're comparing it to the series objectively a year or two from now they'll see the difference.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Of course SERENITY will do well

    by IAmLegolas

    With STAR WARS and STAR TREK pretty much over, what else are you Sci-Fi geeks going to watch?

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 9:58 a.m. CST

    The problem with talkback hijacking...

    by Zino

    ...I went to a football game once, and they had one of those minute silences where everybody pays their respects to someone who has died by being quiet minute. Then about half way through, someone shouts out "kick some foooking AAAAAAArrrrse", just to make a name for himself. This person is a twat, and should have been ignored. However that didn't happen. What happened is that 50,000 people then turned round and told this bloke to shut up - In the middle of a FUCKING MINUTE'S SILENCE! My point is this - I agree with greatn when he says the whole talkback hijacking is down to one or two idiots. However, it only becomes a problem when everyone reacts to these morons. You get ten people posting the same "grow up" message, which is well intentioned but just ends up throwing fuel on the fire. That's when the real hijacking takes place. If one guy shouts out at a minute's silence it isn't a problem. When everyone responds by shouting out just as loud, it is.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 9:59 a.m. CST

    fanatic fans?

    by capt jack aubrey

    I've been watching AICN's struggle with the Browncoats all year with some bemusement. I'm a pretty big fan of Whendon's work, though certainly not enough of a fan (of anything) to self-identify by a nickname. (er, other than my love of a certain British Naval commander). (Oh, and yeah, Moriarty, keep at them Galactica discs -- it probably is the single best spaceship show of the past 20 years -- and i say that as a big fan of Firefly, an even BIGGER fan of Farscape, and without ever having seen Babylon 5 or Andromeda -- i have a feeling I might be missing something without having seen the former, not so much the latter)... but back to the Browncoats -- it's funny to see Harry and Quint, and to a lesser extent, Moriarty, pooh-pooh the Whedon fans and their, um, enthusiasm, when of course this entire SITE is built on exactly that sort of wild, silly, sometimes-scary fanaticism... it just goes to show how, even in something as arbirary as the Blogosphere, we're all still pretty much tribal beings: we madly fight to defend what WE love, but just can't understand OTHER people's crazy love for THEIR things... the Browncoats and Whedon fans can be obnoxious, sure, but how in god's name are they MORE obnoxious or crazed than the LOTR fans, the Star Wars fans, the Matrix fans, and so on? of course, if they ARE a bit more rabid in their defense of the Whedon, perhaps it's that old "oppressed minority" vibe (and yes, I realize how silly and somewhat offensive it is to compare fans of a TV show to truly oppressed minorities worldwide, but I'm just using an absurb comparison for effect...) -- Star Wars, Matrix, and LOTR fans pretty much know theirs is the way of the Geekverse (although things were a bit rough for us LOTR fans in that year before FOTR opened, when geeks and industry wags both were sneering that regular folks would never go see a movie about elves)... Whedon fans may tend to overcompensate a bit because they feel they and their Man-God don't get enough respect... but anyway, my point was that just about every corner of ACIN is populated by various sometimes overlapping, sometimes warring factions of nutty fandom... after all, that's WHY most of us come here day after day... so let's let the Whedon fans (and again, I am very, very much one of them, been there since Buffy Season 1) have their weekend in the sun... can't we geeks all just get along? celebrate diversity! and other such slogans...

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 10:18 a.m. CST

    Good review

    by Mafu

    Thanks for the review, Mori. I haven't seen the film yet, but I might try to see it tonight depending on whether a certain woman calls me back. I remain guarded in my enthusiasm for "Serenity," since I know Browncoats -- and a very specific mentally unhinged Browncoat trolling these talkbacks -- can go way over the top with their enthusiasm. I like people getting fired up over movies, but I think it's important to be classy in how you distribute that enthusiasm to others. If someone doesn't like "Firefly," so be it. I don't think they're assholes for not liking it, or that they're somehow not 'getting it'. They just don't like it, no big deal. I respect that. Oh, Man-In-The-Box, can you burn down my neighbor's house tomorrow?

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 10:39 a.m. CST

    ..and that makes us mighty.

    by Billyeveryteen

    Being a confirmed "Browncoat", I must say, it's the unreasonable Whedon haters that are truly scary. Why all the venom? All this passion wasted on hating someone? Methinks they are hurt by him somehow...

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 10:49 a.m. CST

    Abusive fans in TALKBACK?!?

    by Palhaco

    "And having said all of that, the

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 11:02 a.m. CST

    watched the firefly marathon the other day

    by fried samurai

    Sci Fi channel had it on all day and it was my first time watching Firefly.I will say I enjoyed it quite a bit but it isn't the holy grail fans claim it to be.Along with a couple great episodes there were quite a few mediocre ones.I'll be honest my money's going to Cronenberg this weekend.Unlike Whedon who will probably have no problem getting tv shows and films made,a genius like Cronenberg struggles to get projects off the ground.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 11:09 a.m. CST

    Not a Whedonite...

    by the Grobe

    I hated Buffy and Angel, which is why I avoided Firefly until two weeks ago. After watching the pilot I had to overnight the DVD set from Amazon. Overnight Browncoat? Nah, I also don't self-identify with labels. But I am definitely a huge fan of this very short series. What it has that I feel shows like "24" don't, is a lot of heart. Not drama, but heart and message without being too preachy (usually). Watching this series transported me the way Star Wars did as a kid. It's rare that a writer and some actors can make me care so much about the characters so quickly. I hope the movie does well enough to warrant two more, and then that Fox decides to sell the TV rights to someone who loves it enough to do it right the second time.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 11:47 a.m. CST


    by eviltwin

    As much as I'm looking forward to this movie, I won't be seeing it tonight and probably not this weekend, to avoid any possible "Browncoat" encounters. I ran into a couple of these rabid Firefly fans a month or so ago. Scary...

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 11:53 a.m. CST

    SAVEFARSCAPE demands you go see Serenity

    by Obredaan

    This is a good idea because let's say Serenity becomes a box-office hit, it would set the wheels in motion. Shows like BSG and Farscape are more likely to have a movie made if Serenity has success. It would be alot easier for an exec to see that success and want to duplicate it with other quality shows such as Farscape. Of course if it bombs then the chances of those shows getting a movie made are severely reduced. I find it's lame that people wouldn't go see a movie because they are annoyed by fans in a TB but I guess that's just how certain people feel. The critics have spoken and unless we get out there and support our Big Damn Movie, then we as a geek community have failed ourselves.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 12:08 p.m. CST

    Nerds are sensitive people

    by Basghetti

    You can't insult a nerd's show and feel a little part of their soul die. They just don't know any better. Run along and play nerds! Go watch your TV show again, and again, and again. Cuz it's cancelled. Get over it already.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 12:13 p.m. CST


    by Basghetti

    "the imagination involved in some of the shots is worthy of getting Whedon an Oscar nod for Best Direction" pass me that crack pipe you're smokin'. You just killed any chance you had with that line.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 12:14 p.m. CST

    by Basghetti

    "one of the most imaginative, thrilling and intense movies ever made." Oh shit, I didn't even read that part.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 12:19 p.m. CST

    exactly what I was talking about in my last post, TimmyTheCat

    by I Dunno

    At first I thought you were joking. Best director? Jebus, man. He liked the movie. So did I. To me it was about as good as a decent episode of Deep Space Nine. But let's not go crazy.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 12:21 p.m. CST

    Science Fiction Novels that should be made into films:

    by seppukudkurosawa

    5) Hih Rise - J.G. Ballard/ 4) The Book of Skulls - Robert Silverberg/ 3) The Forever War - Joe Haldeman/ 2) State of the Art - Iain M Banks (can't remember which studio, but one of them have the rights to this)/ 1)) The Stars my Destination - Alfred Bester/

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 12:21 p.m. CST

    Make Hih Rise High Rise and you'll know what the hell I'

    by seppukudkurosawa

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 12:30 p.m. CST

    Timmy, brethren, relax OK?

    by seppukudkurosawa

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 12:38 p.m. CST

    Browncoats and Battlestar Galactica

    by The Funketeer

    If you have so many obnoxious browncoats running around (and you do) it's only because Herc has turned the coaxial section into Aint it Cool Whedon News (formerly Aint it Cool Whedon/Ellis News). I'd be curious to know what percentage of stories (not just empty talkbacks) are related to Whedon projects and projects by former Whedon employees. And do I really need to see a giant ad for the complete Buffy at the end of every Herc article? With all that Whedon stuff floating around here, why would you be surprised that they've hijacked your site? As for Battlestar, it's the best damn thing on TV right now. If you liked the mini series, which was a little slow and mostly set up, you'll love the regular episodes. And BG fans are easy to spot because you'll catch them saying "frack" instead of... well, you know.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 12:45 p.m. CST

    I had my suspicions

    by seppukudkurosawa

    I was just waiting for someone else to point it out first. Paranoia isn't a good look for me.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 12:46 p.m. CST

    Claudia Puig

    by CatVutt a complete dunderhead and lousy film reviewer. Whether she gave it 4 stars or no stars, her opinion is pointless. The only reviewer worth a damn over there is Mike Clark, and even he has a tendency to backtrack his reviews later on when he reviews the DVD release.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 1:01 p.m. CST

    Science Fiction Novels that should be made into films

    by MaguaSynfield

    Check this out - The Forever Wars was made into a stage play that I saw in Chicago, around 1983. No frakking kidding. It was a trippy event, even though I was stone cold sober at the time.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 1:07 p.m. CST

    Funketeer has hit it on the head.

    by EeterOfWurldz

    If you can't see the source of your Whedonite infestation, you haven't been paying attention. Geez, I still remember the breakdown of last year's Emmy noms and why Angel deserved every single one.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 1:09 p.m. CST

    The reaction from friends at work

    by zekmoe

    who I've lent the boxset to has been mixed. And that's what surprisd me the most. I lent it to 3 people who seem to like alot of what I like, and 2 came back and said they never watched the whole set. One was rabid about it, as am I. I think if you "get" Buffy, you'll love this. If you don't or only watch it passivly, then it will only seem marginal. Honestly compared to all the Sci Fi biggies in season 1, Firefly to me is way above it in originality, rewatchability, and fun. Sure, ST:TNG and B5 had some real growth and great arcs and characters, but they had many seasons to develop. Who knows what this would have turned into after 5 years? Anyway, I am there tomorrow, and will probably view it as my last fix of Firefly. Happy, I got more than most fans of cancelled shows get.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 1:10 p.m. CST

    Moriarty I think your criticisms are a little misguided.

    by wato

    Hey man, I just bought the boxed set a few weeks ago. I only knew about Firefly in a

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 2:01 p.m. CST

    Hey Magua thanks for that info

    by seppukudkurosawa

    and the person who could adapt Forever Wars into a stageplay must either be a chronic mescaline user, or...just very talented.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 2:07 p.m. CST

    Angel and Buffy are 2 of the best shows ever on television!

    by GravyAkira

    Great characters, and entertaining storylines nearly every week. I might even dare say that Angel was a tad bit better than Buffy. But that is only because I felt Buffy was all downhill starting in season 5. Just my opinion.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 2:34 p.m. CST

    Timmy the cat & racist poetry...

    by Nate Champion

    Don't leave me hangin' like this, Timmy... hit us with your best shot!

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 2:44 p.m. CST

    Please don't humour this guy anymore, I think anyone who&#39

    by seppukudkurosawa

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 2:59 p.m. CST

    I have a legitimate question about Fire Fly..

    by Doom II

    Actually I have a couple questions. I've never seen an episode. Not even a clip that I can remember. So how are the special effects? Are they Babylon 5 bad (cartoony, digital?) or are they good enough so as not to distract me from the stories (Farscape)? Also, is the show violent at all or just campy? And finally, are the characters likeable? I am debating on renting the box set, but need a reason. PS: I think Buffy is teenage fluff at best. It's like watching Charmed or Xena. I stop on it, watch for a few minutes and have to turn it off ASAP! I DO NOT like that show at all. So as a Buffy HATER, will FireFly win me over? I loooove the new Galactica though.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:30 p.m. CST


    by zathras34


  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:31 p.m. CST

    Special Effects

    by Obredaan

    Yes BSG use the same effects as both shows are done by a company knowns as ZOIC. Alot of the effects seen in BSG were created for Firefly and have been taken to the next level on BSG. I'm anxious to see what ZOIC does with Serenity, they seem to do great work with a smaller budget. A few shots here and there in Firefly are not as good as others, but again the show doesn't rely on effects to carry it's story. Another note for Firefly, no sound in space. You won't hear engines and explosions in space, this brings another realistic element to the show that most would shy away from. I'd have no problem recommending the show to anyone, whether you like it or not depends on you. Firefly is nothing like Buffy.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:34 p.m. CST

    "and the person who could adapt Forever Wars into a stageplay mu

    by MaguaSynfield

    I would say a great deal of both, or at least a buttload of ambition in leiu of talent. It was at The Organic Theatre in Chicago, I believe, and still the weirdest theatre experience I've had ( including seeing Turds in Hell, which still wins the award for the most insane costuming of all time - including a guy dressed as a towering, 9 feet penis). But Forever War was the project of one Stuart Gordon, who was also responsible for the Re-Animator film & From Beyond. That should give you some ideas about the productin I saw while he was the artistic director at Organic....

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:35 p.m. CST

    I saw one of the advance screenings of Serenity back in May and

    by Barry Egan

    I enjoyed the hell out of the film but thought it would get poor reviews and not appeal to non-fans of the show.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 3:53 p.m. CST

    RoyRogers is right

    by IAmLegolas

    He is, you know.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 4:30 p.m. CST

    Some things to note...

    by Childe Roland

    ...about the review and the talkback so far. First, Mori hardly panned this movie. It sounds like he enjoyed it overall despite being unimpressed with the third act. Mori, this is one of the most even-handed and to-the-point reviews I've ever seen from you. Kudos. Next, I really hope Farscape doesn't go tot he movies any time soon. The Peacekeeper Wars was a perfect ending to those characters' arcs, in my opinion, and was a very nice love letter to the fans. I don't think it had ambitions of starting anything bigger than itself. I think it just wanted to finish telling a story. I applaud that. I was hoping that was what Whedo n would do with Firefly... maybe jump to the Sci Fi channel or USA and do a mini to wrap things up in four to six hours. The movie seemed like a risky way to go, especially for a show I really only mildly enjoyed. I agree with many that it seemed to be getting better at the very end of its limited run. But now I hear from bigger fans of the show than I that the movie isn't quite on par with the show. I still want to see this because I did grow interested enough in some of the characters to want to see what happens to them, but if the emphasis of this film is to try and kick-start a revival, then I think it might have been a missed opportunity. I guess we'll see. Oh... and as for my Whedon allegiance, I still think that when the man is "on" he writes some of the best dialogue and most relatable characters on television. He's also pretty good at taking familiar concepts and previously used ideas and making them seem fresh (more successful with this in Angel and early BUffy, I thought, than in Firefly). But when he misfires, it's pretty painful. For some reason, when I've offered these assessments to certain vocal Whedon fanatics, they've labeled me a "hater." I still don't get that.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 4:35 p.m. CST

    by Obredaan

    I luv how moronic your posts are, you talk down about something you've obviously never seen and then you call the fans clowns and losers. I think I'll stick with viable/credible sources when it comes to a review on Serenity and not your childish jump on the bandwagon bashing comments. Why you continue to compare Buffy to Firefly is beyond any knowledgable person but yet you continue to make yourself look dumber with each post. Congrats! Now go and play with your little toys we all know you love so much.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 4:35 p.m. CST


    by Obredaan

    I luv how moronic your posts are, you talk down about something you've obviously never seen and then you call the fans clowns and losers. I think I'll stick with viable/credible sources when it comes to a review on Serenity and not your childish jump on the bandwagon bashing comments. Why you continue to compare Buffy to Firefly is beyond any knowledgable person but yet you continue to make yourself look dumber with each post. Congrats! Now go and play with your little toys we all know you love so much.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 4:39 p.m. CST


    by Bryan

    Thank you for being uncomfortable with the term "browncoats." I am a fan of Joss Whedon. I don't know too many other people who watched Buffy from season 1 on, or who actually watched Firefly when it was on TV. Hell, I even like Alien Resurrection. But for God's sake have some self respect. How about just being somebody who likes the show Firefly, among other things? Is it worth forming a community over 13 episodes of TV? Do you really want to define yourself based on what your favorite TV show is? At least the whole "Save Angel" thing is over. I liked the show too but I still feel icky thinking about people banding together and spending thousands of dollars, taking out billboards and putting together protests over a damn TV show. Especially with all the real life horror going on in this world right now. I'm not saying "Why are you watching TV when you could be out there disarming landmines?" But once you get to the point of taking out full page ads you've got to admit that there are better things to dedicate your life to. I think. Anyway, I can't wait to see Serenity tonight. But maybe some of you shouldn't sit next to me. You know. Nothing personal.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 5:07 p.m. CST


    by the Grobe

    Is it so bad that people find some inspiration in the stories and characters? Isn't that the kind of geekery this site is based on? I didn't become a fan of Firefly on purpose, but the stories actually moved me (especially Out of Gas and Objects in Space) to the point where I think about them long after I've seen them. What riles me is that, yes, there are rabid fans called Browncoats, but that's no reason to form a rabid "anti-fanbase" to counter it. My love for Firefly has surpassed my love for Star Wars... and that's a big statement for me. I'm not ashamed.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 5:14 p.m. CST

    Watch Out For The Space Zombies, River!!!

    by ZombieSolutions

    It is my extreme pleasure to announce that SERENITY rocked. _____ Okay, now I don't want to start calling myself a browncoat (cause that is just too goddamn corny), but I am now officialy a fan and I am definately buying the DVDs... ______ My one criticism of the film is that it does feel like you've come in to a show that already started. Which, of course, it is. That being said, the set-up is just about perfectly done. I can't imagine anyone being lost. And whereas there were certainly in-jokes that i missed (a few people in the audience reacted with "oooohs" to some dialouge related to a certain captain and a certain 'companion'), it really didn't matter. _____ This movie is a crowd pleaser from start to finish, and I really, really hope they continue the story in some fashion whether in film form or a continued tv series. Yes, it's that cool. For fucks sake is has Space Zombies in it! Go see it ASAP. _____ P.S. The thing i really want to see now is more backstory about the war. There is one tense scene where they hint at the battle of Serenity or something where both Mal and Zoe go ashen with anger... are there any "prequel" epsiodes on the DVD? The war sounds great...

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 5:17 p.m. CST

    I just read quite a stuffy and formal review where the fanbase w

    by seppukudkurosawa

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 5:26 p.m. CST

    "Critics generally don't like sci-fi genre films"

    by Gheorghe Zamfir

    That's not true, good films get good reviews, sci-fi or not. I can't really think of any good sci-fi movie that got unfairly maligned by critics because there's some bias against sci-fi, I mean hell, even flicks like Star Trek III and Terminator 3 got favorable grades.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 5:26 p.m. CST

    by daroe

    I am not really fanatical about much of anything (except some bands). It takes a lot of energy much better spent on other things. Not that I haven't felt excitement about upcoming events I just don't blow my wad before even experiencing the object of my excitement. What freaks me out is people who are anti-fanatics. These people are seriously dysfunctional and generally worthless human beings. The world is a scary, uncompromising, and a generally difficult place to be. We are surrounded by war, hatred, disaster, poverty, insanity, destruction, on and on ad infinitum. We are faced with all of these things and some people feel the need to facelessly, voicelessly, and with extreme unfounded lunacy take it upon themselves to berate, belittle, and abuse people for having love for something which helps to lift them out of the quagmire of life for an hour a week, or two hours in a dark room. I feel sorry for anyone with that much disease in their soul. if they have one. Anyway. I saw serenity today. It was great. I loved it even though the theatre I saw it in showed it out of order. It gave me that feeling I look for in my entertainment...when I left the theatre the world felt a little different, I've always equated it to decompression, my body readjusting to the mundane reality I am forced to abide in. This whedon stuff is polarizing for some reason. I don't really get it, I don't often watch things because of who made them, or who is in them. I dig his stuff but I never watched it because it was his but because it was what I look for in my entertinment. The thing that strikes me about the reviews for Serenity on this site is that they seem to be approaching the movie more as part of a phenomenon than as entertainment which seems to defeat the purpose of watching the films at all.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 5:42 p.m. CST

    Brock Tune

    by seppukudkurosawa

    At least two good sci-fi movies that got their share of critic-scorn are Blade Runner and Dark City. I can understand if someone thinks Dark City aint all that great (though personally I love it), but there's no disputing Blade any of its incarnations.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 6:24 p.m. CST

    Actually both Dark City and Blade Runner were favorably reviewed

    by Gheorghe Zamfir

    I mean, sure, both got some bad reviews too, as most any film will, and the box office wasn't kind to either, but for the most part critics were actually pertty warm to both of them (Ebert named Dark City the best film of that year on his annual top 10).

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 6:37 p.m. CST

    Folks, keep in mind that Moriarty and Harry both gave gushing go

    by Thirteen 13

    I mean they were like two screaming schoolgirls at a Beatles concert at Shea Stadium when they wrote their reviews for that very weak movie. I think its safe to say that we should take their critiques of this movie with only a grain of salt, if even that. The fact that they are trying like hell to find faults with this movie only gives me a greater sense of urgency to go buy tickets to see it.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 6:44 p.m. CST

    I repeat Firefly has Fans??

    by onefalsemove

    Come on, really this is news on this site? What's next constant Stargate updates? Or overhyped excitement about a Space: Above and Beyond movie? Or maybe M.A.N.T.I.S.? Shheesh.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 6:45 p.m. CST

    I don't know why anyone is bitching about the reviews

    by Gheorghe Zamfir

    Both Harry and Mori LIKED the film, to get a stick up your butt cause they didn't declare it the greatest science fiction film to ever be is just silly.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 6:49 p.m. CST

    I know now why I don't bother posting anymore.

    by cutest_of_borg

    Now that this crap has finally been released maybe we can all get back to a TREK-CENTRIC universe where all is good. Goddamn - I truly think this site is on Whedon's payroll. Enough already.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 6:51 p.m. CST

    I DON'T GET IT!!!!!

    by Spaz Medicine

    Why were pretty much all of the characters in the movie void of any personality? I mean the good guys... you know, the "rebels." I get why the assassin was like that, but why were they all borderline catatonic? For the most part, they were the most boring set of characters I ever saw in a movie. Someone please explain to me why they were like that. There had to be a reason. PLEASE!!!!!

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 6:53 p.m. CST


    by cutest_of_borg

    " film ever..." You're joking, right?

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 6:57 p.m. CST


    by WillowFan2001

    Speaking as a Trekkie and a Browncoat, shut up. All is not well with Trek, as you should know if you ever watched any of Enterprise. Or are you a B&B apologist? Do you think that YET ANOTHER time travel story is the neatest, funnest idea ever? Firefly was a great show. Serenity is a great movie. Trek, R.I.P. for at least ten years.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:02 p.m. CST

    ALRIGHT!!! Only 4 minutes to garner a response. Keep the faith,

    by cutest_of_borg

    I'm more of classic Trek kind of guy. So shut your hole and let me have my fun.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:07 p.m. CST


    by cutest_of_borg

    I like my sci-fi with ALIENS! Lots and lots of aliens. And hot space babes - and tough-guy captains who don't take shit. And beautiful gleaming white starships. And a positive outlook on the future - not some depressing, stark, quasi-Western future without...ALIENS!!! I like aliens!

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:11 p.m. CST

    Fake It Til You Make It

    by Rock Icon

    I love how above the fray Moriarty and Harry are trying to be regarding this picture. As if we're a bunch of riffraff and they're these sophisticated movie critics.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:13 p.m. CST

    Oh, get over yourself, I was just browsing the forum...

    by WillowFan2001

    And felt like I couldn't let your idiocy go unanswered. Trek's old. Trek's dead. Even as a Trekkie who thought the classic show was the best thing until he saw TNG (an opinion later revised when DS9 came into its own), I say this. Serenity's something new and fresh, and while it's not going to be the next Trek or Wars, it's going to have a sequel and probably a nice little franchise. It may even go back to the small screen, which is fine as far as us Browncoats are concerned. So go spend time with classic Trek. Have fun with Captain Toupee and Mr. I-Write-Bad-Poetry Vulcan. Meanwhile, I'll be watching the awesome new thing, which has so much more of the sci-fi spirit than modern-day Trek can muster. I'm checking out to head toward the Friday night lights, but I look forward to responding to your craziness tomorrow--or at least laughing at it.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:19 p.m. CST

    Holy crap, had to say this before I left...

    by WillowFan2001

    "And hot space babes - and tough-guy captains who don't take shit." Really?! There could have been something for you in Firefly and Serenity after all, you silly scarecrow, if you only had a brain. Morena Baccarin? Jewel Staite? Gina Torres? Summer Glau? Find some fashion shoots of those ladies and tell me they're not hot. And as for tough-guy captains? Captain Kirk has nothing on Cap'n Tightpants. Seriously. Just...go. I hereby revoke your geek cred.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:23 p.m. CST

    Hey for all you idiots that were saying Serenity is going to flo

    by Thirteen 13

    Could you please explain to me why almost every show is sold out at every venue. I'm trying to get tickets and the only slots left open are the late shows. I may have to go see corpse bride again and wait until next week to see this so-called flop.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:25 p.m. CST


    by Spaz Medicine

    Are you kidding me? I saw the movie this afternoon with my old man, who liked the movie a lot and loves sci-fi in general. I never saw the television show, so ya got me there, I guess. But what the hell? How are they the most complex characters ever? Alan Tudyk, who I like a lot, showed maybe two facial expressions the entire movie. The whole crew were devoid of virtually any emotion throughout most of the movie. They were all so bland it was annoying. Whoever that muscle guy was was the one exception. But what was with everyone else.... it took me right out of the movie.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 7:44 p.m. CST


    by AttackingClone

    I wish so called Whedonites would stop getting picked on. I'm probably one of em. I love Buffy, Angel, Firefly and saw Serenity last night, loved it. There's no difference between whats going on with Joss now and what happened with Peter Jackson over the last few years. Maybe there's just a few more haters. We love Joss' work, not the man. We just want other people to like it too, for no other reason than to see it be successful so we can get more of Joss' stuff on the big screen. It's as simple as that

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 8:10 p.m. CST

    Willow, you Whedon fans sure are pissy.

    by cutest_of_borg

    Well now you've gone and hurt my feelings. By the way, I let my geek credentials expire after the early death of Enterprise.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 8:21 p.m. CST

    Television is superior to film

    by AeroB

    And Buffy and Angel were among the cream of the crop in television shows (there have been many other great ones completely unrelated to Joss Whedon, however).

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 8:29 p.m. CST

    "Moriarty hasn't given us a review, he's given a slap in

    by Stan the Bat

    " all the Browncoats that he hates so much. He clearly hates Browncoats more than any other group of people in the world and would never give us a fair review if his life depended on it." What the hell? Are you trolling? It was a mild but positive review, was it not? It wasn't wildly enthusiastic, granted; but if you've seriously read it as some kind of attack on "browncoats", you ought to relax a little. (Also note: anybody actually willing to identify themselves as a "browncoat" should step away from the TV set and get out in the sun a little more.)

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 8:53 p.m. CST

    I Loved SERENITY, But...

    by ZombieSolutions

    there is no way on god's green earth that i am going to start referring to myself as a "browncoat." a fan? definately. a "browncoat"? uh... no.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 9:02 p.m. CST

    Mori, you and Quint should know better.

    by Theta

    I'm not faulting you for your reviews, I'm faulting you for bitching about TalkBack issues. Everyone here is part of a fandom that has psychotic fans: Star Wars, at the VERY least. Mori, I bet you got death threats for not being totally enthused about the "Star Wars" prequels. I myself lost friendships over the first two. I have gotten into fistfights for not liking those prequels. And I felt bitterly, bitterly betrayed by Episodes I and II, on top of everything else. It didn't sour me on "Episode III", which was actually a good movie. Also I'd bluntly note to all those on this TB getting sniffy over bad TalkBack behavior, endemic since the site first had them, is, well, silly; most of the "hardest of the hardcore" on both sides are in ninth grade. Don't let a bunch of stupid teenagers keep you from going to see a genuinely fun movie. If I may offer a humble prediction, you're going to wind up watching it anyway: I think "Serenity" is going to catch everybody by surprise.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 9:05 p.m. CST

    "Why didn't they get a professional cinematographer?"

    by Ribbons

    They did. Believe he won an Oscar for 'Unforgiven.'

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 9:06 p.m. CST

    Note to flip63hole

    by Theta

    Please do yourself a favor and don't disparage Jack Green. Seriously, man, I REALLY hope that cinematographer comment was about the show and not the movie, because if it is, you just pumped two barrels of buckshot into your foot.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 9:14 p.m. CST

    I really hope...

    by Ace Hunter

    ...the movie doesn't have that God-awful theme song Whedon wrote for the series. I enjoyed the series (most episodes anyway), but everytime I heard that song I wanted to eat a gun.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 9:24 p.m. CST


    by AttackingClone

    The opening to the Firefly pilot has a scene from the war, which is mostly just action. Apart from that there is only one episode which has flashbacks to the war, called "The Message" I think. It only has a small amount of one small battle, but it's done brilliantly. I too would like to see more of the war, however a prequel would rule out everyone except Mal and Zoey, so maybe just flashbacks in another movie. Maybe they come up against an old foe, been done I know, and they could show that they first encountered during the civil war. You reading this Joss, I want royalties damnit.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 9:35 p.m. CST


    by zathras34

    I KNEW I WAS NOT ALONE..SOMEONE BROUGHT UP GODZILLA VS MEGALON.. SAW IT AT THE DRIVE IN..OPENING WEEKEND IN THE STATES..AT AGE 5 (AHHH One of my favorite childhood memories..I have all 4 of the figures)...Now all we need is THE REMATCH !!!! Its like waiting for the rematch between spiderman and "MUDERWORLD" with ARCADE... And once again..yes "Serenity" was tons bettter than I thought it would be..and I watched the show.. PEACE....

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Whedonites = former disgruntled goths

    by Nordling

    That's the only explanation. Listen, the movie's terrific. The show had moments (I still think "Out Of Gas" is the best hour that Ridley Scott never directed), and you should be happy that the film turned out as well as it did. But LIGHTEN THE FUCK UP. The only explanation for this behavior is that some of you used to be named Belial Of The Sixth Red Candle and listened to the Cure's "Lost In A Forest" way too many times, before you discovered the lure of television. Be happy that most people are enjoying the film and don't ask us to drink the Kool-aid, okay?

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 9:44 p.m. CST

    Moriarty continues to show why he's the best reviewer on thi

    by Voice O. Reason

    He's open-minded, and takes the time elaborate on his thoughts without going into minute detail.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 9:44 p.m. CST

    I will give the Whedon fans credit though...

    by Nordling

    When it came to spoilers, most of the Whedon fans on the boards I frequent were very restrained, and I'm appreciative of that. The twists in the show today were pretty much a complete surprise because of their restraint, and for that I'm thankful.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 10:02 p.m. CST

    "Maybe they come up against an old foe, been done I know, and th

    by ZombieSolutions

    that sounds cool to me! hey, there ain't nothing wrong with using old ideas... it's putting a new spin on old ideas that's key. thats what made STAR WARS such a big deal when it first came out, and that's what SERENITY has done. (although i doubt that SERENITY is going to become a cultural event, i can definately see it continuing and becoming popular. at least i hope it does! i'd like to see it be revived as a series.)

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 10:59 p.m. CST

    I'll be humming the themesong while you pull the trigger Ace

    by Shermdawg

    No where near as bad as the themesong to FX's Over There. Maybe thats why they only play it at the end. Sure the intentions were good, but...ouch! Oh by the way, as I said in Harry's thread for the flick, GREAT MOVIE! Gina Torres is freakin hot also. Nuff said. Nuff said.

  • Sept. 30, 2005, 11:19 p.m. CST

    Anyone who claims to not be seeing the movie this weekend due to

    by DarthHomercles

    Are idiots, the lot of them. There were many weirdos going to see REVENGE OF THE SITH last summer, but that didn't keep me or anyone else away from the movie. Let's keep some perspective here. The number of people posting in a talkback would roughly translate into maybe 1% of the fan base which would roughly translate into 10,000 people which makes for 200 people per State. SERENITY is showing on around 50 screens per State which means around 4 hardcore fans will be attending each theater. And since there are many showings a day and many days in the week, the chances of anyone here actually encountering an obnoxious hardcore fan past opening weekend are basically zilch. Anyone who says they are not seeing this movie because they are scared of the fans weren't going to see the movie anyway and are using the fans as an excuse to put down the franchise. My math may be faulty, but the point is clear: you're all idiots. Good day.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 12:27 a.m. CST

    Hmm we scare you?

    by spikerules2

    So Whedon fans scare you more than Star Wars and Star Trek fans? I think you mistake passionate trust in Whedon's brilliance (he co-wrote toy story for crying out loud!) for geeky scary fandom and 100% loyalty to someone we admire... The man is my hero and I

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 1:13 a.m. CST


    by Barry Egan

    Yes, I enjoyed the rough cut of Serenity i saw in May but I thought the film would only appeal to those that liked the show. I atteded the screening with a friend who had never seen the show and he hated the movie. I really am surprised at the critical response to the film, which seems to be overwhelmingly positive. Now, Timmy, you need to shut the fuck up before your twisted enthusiasm for the film actually makes people want to stay away from the cinema for fear they will encouter you there. You want a Serenity sequel? Be quiet.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 1:31 a.m. CST

    I was a "Firefly" (& Whedon) virgin until today...

    by El Scorcho

    And I really enjoyed the movie. I thought it was way too slow for awhile in the middle, but the cast was fantastic for the most part. Some of the best writing I've witnessed in a looooong time When I saw the first trailer I thought it would be crap, but the second trailer won me over. I really don't see this doing all that well at the Box Office, but I would gladly welcome a sequel, and *might* even check out the TV series. Mal is one of the greatest film characters to come along in years.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 2:22 a.m. CST


    by antonphd

    Almost every seat was sold today at the theater i was at. the show i saw... cheering repeatedly and a huge cheer at the end for at least a literal 30 seconds. it won me over.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 2:56 a.m. CST

    Elite geeks putting down other geeks. Good stuff.

    by TruPhan

    So I've seen Serenity twice now. Loved it. As for the series? I saw a few episodes and half of a pirated copy of the pilot (this is before the DVDs) cam out. To be honest, I thought the pilot was too slow if I remember correctly. Anyway, the second showing was full or, damn I can't believe I'm honoring this term, "Browncoats." You guys are assholes. You quoted shit from the trailer as the characters were saying it, whooping and whistling as though you were trying to will the movie into greatness and push everyone along with you. You don't have to do this. Serenity is a good movie and as such it will find its audience. Trust that and trust Whedon's work to stand on its own. The more you push, the more people like me, people who liked the movie in the first place, will look on it in a lesser light.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 3:02 a.m. CST

    Oh yeah, forgot the point of my other post

    by TruPhan

    AICN went down the drain a long time ago. Cut the bias and keep the Cool News that the site promises and you've got a decent corner of the web. And like someone else mentioned, this is a site for geeks, and Harry and Mort can't act like they're surprised or like they're lamenting this when these people are the backbone of their success. Harry and Mort can't act like they're above it. They post OPINIONS about things, and there's nothing that empowers them to look down on others. C'mon guys, you have a glorified blog. Grow up.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 4:10 a.m. CST

    No one's getting banned

    by TruPhan

    Whistling is cool in my book. So is cheering. In fact, I'm going to say shitting your pants and then blurting out, "Fuck, I just shit my pants!" in the middle of a movie is also cool (as long as I don't have to deal with said shit). What I didn't enjoy so much was when it felt, well, forced. The point I was trying to get at was that the people in my particular screening that did the whooping, hollering, and possible shitting did it in a way that felt like something similar to hearing canned laughter, like it was something false. "It's a funny part, cheer quick so everyone else in the theater gets it." At a certain point during my screening, and maybe even in the reviews and opinions of Firefly and Serenity, something detrimental to happened to the film experience: it became more about the fans than the work of Joss Whedon and his cast and crew.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 4:24 a.m. CST

    That's how it was at the midnight screening

    by TruPhan

    It was a really awesome crowd and a great overall experience. I hope anyone new to the universe gets the have that kind of introduction.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 5:35 a.m. CST

    I admit no review had the term shitjacket in

    by seppukudkurosawa

    though from the looks of some you people, I think at least ONE of them should have.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 7:09 a.m. CST

    You realise Serenity is actually adapted from Kurosawa's Iki

    by seppukudkurosawa

    Joss loves the Kurosawa. In fact he's always said that if he ever had a kid (or a girlfriend) he'd name his child Akira, but he figured it would get confused with the manga so instead he'd name it Kurosawa, but then again that's a shitty first name, so he finally opted on Ak Ak Ak. Trust me, next time you're on and you hear he's had a kid, that'll be the name.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 7:12 a.m. CST

    this does look like a made for TV movie

    by Rupee88

    I love sci-fi, but I don't feel compelled to see this anymore than I did to see Chronicles of Riddick. Maybe I'll eventually download the DVD and watch it because I have some respect for Whedon, but i wouldn't be expecting much at all.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 9 a.m. CST

    Ripping off Kurosawa is considered being literate.

    by I Dunno

    Anyway, Serenity was a good movie and that should be enough praise for you brown coats (and really, drop that. Do you know what brown SHIRT means? Look it up). It was good, period. It wasn't ROTS by a long shot. It was more like a good Star Trek movie or a super cool Star Trek episode good. So in other words, good enough. Maybe even good enough for a sequel or if The SciFi Channel is smart, a new series. But let's not overdo things and call it more than it was.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 9:19 a.m. CST

    Firefly Virgins

    by JCubedz

    I went to the movie last night with THREE Firefly virgins. All three loved the movie, one even was clapping at the end. I dont get those who say this looks like a made for TV sci fi movie. This movie is 10X more visually appealing than the chronicles of riddick.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 9:23 a.m. CST

    IKIRU Was Adapted From Doestoyevsky's THE IDIOT

    by ZombieSolutions

    it's about as far from a space western as you can possibly get. if Whedon said this was his source material, he was joking.

  • Ha hahahahaha *sniff* Ha haaaaa hahahaha.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 10:49 a.m. CST

    Lousy Opening Day

    by Spaz Medicine

    Just because of you psychos, I couldn't be happier that Serenity didn't even pull in 4 million dollars on opening day. A shitty opening for a shitty movie.

  • but now the movie is supposed to be the best thing since "citizen kane", don`t know, but all this good reviews sound suspicious, if you wanna see some studio gardening at its best just look at the yahoo user reviews

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 11:13 a.m. CST

    Painless viewing experience the other night

    by Blacklist

    I am a pretty big fan of Firefly, but am in no way a "Browncoat." I've seen the show on DVD and loved it, tried to watch it during the televised run (nigh impossible), and prefer to disassociate myself with the fringe of most fanbases. The showing I saw the other night was terrific. No rowdy lunatics, no ringleaders repeatedly asking the audience if they were "aiming to misbehave," just an extremely positive response from an audience I gather must have had some familiarity with the show. They laughed at the appropriate times, were dead silent during others. Just great, especially since this was the late show. And more especially since most every theater experience I've had since after the midnight premier of Episode 3 (NEVER talk during a premier of Star Wars or prepare to be annihilated) has been less than spectacular. Idiot teenagers yapping away, giggling inappropriately, people oblivious that there are others in the theater besides themselves. If Firefly becomes a bigger phenominon (likely will), I can't say I look forward to frequent Browncoat disruptions. Maybe they'll be bagged by the sane ones early on?

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 11:29 a.m. CST

    Maybe "Browncoat" can be redefined a little...

    by Blacklist

    to mean "the batshit insane fans of Firefly." Then people who enjoy the show could be called "people who enjoy the television program 'Firefly'" Not that image should be a major priority, but think about what your infatuation of a show will cause people at work to say. Do you want "Oh hey, there's that 'Browncoat'" or "Oh hey, there's that 'guy who enjoys the television program "Firefly"'"?

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 11:43 a.m. CST

    Firefly is a horrible show

    by MechaTruffautMk2

    First of all, Ikiru was not adapted from The Idiot. Kurosawa did make a movie version of The Idiot, but that is something completely different than Ikiru, which is another film completely. Secondly, Firefly was an awful show. I think it's hilarious and sad that this show has such a huge following. The series lasted for what, a dozen episodes? Why aren't there zealous, wild-eyed fans for VR.5, M.A.N.T.I.S., Adventures of Brisco Country, Jr., Cleopatra 2525 or any number of horrible/guilty pleasure sci-fi adventure shows that have run on Fox and/or Satuday afternoons for the last fifteen years or so? They're just as good, and mostly much better, than Firefly, and lasted a hell of a lot longer. At least Star Trek, B5 and Farscape fans, among others, have a huge wealth of information and actual media to draw from. These "Browncoaters" have thirteen half-hours to base their craziness on. Any sci-fi show with potentional for 16 year-old girl fanfiction is going to be popular with a section of the genre community. I got blasted in another talkback for saying the show had a love triangle, so I stand corrected: it has, instead, "a love that can never be". Face it, you just like the show because it has spaceships and soap opera. There's nothing great about it at all, it makes no special statements, it is not original or unique. Whedon sucks, and is a horrible, horrible writer. Whedonites = former disgruntled goths is a perfect description. His writing is pseudo-witty, faux-intelligent cutesy bullshit. No matter how much his (insane) fans try to rationalize it, NO ONE TALKS THE WAY HIS CHARACTERS DO. Let me assure you that what I say, and what every other sane person in the world says, through out their daily life is not a mishmash of forced sexual tension and inane pop culture references. Serenity looks like a terrible movie; maybe a decent made-for-TV diversion, but as the next big space opera? That's a joke. I'll admit this is all based on what I saw on Firefly - I've never seen Buffy or Angel, as they never interested me, and after seeing the mediocrity (at best) of Firefly, I certainly have no interest to check them out. I've never encountered fans more annoying than Whedon fans. It's like they're trying desperately to prove to everyone that their favorite load of crap is the most amazing thing since sliced bread, because they don't actually believe it themselves. I've met fully made-up Klingons and Wookiees with more rationality. And that's that.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 11:52 a.m. CST

    Matinees Are The Only Way To Go These Days

    by ZombieSolutions

    i will never go to see a movie past 5:00pm. that is when the people who appear to have NO CLUE how to conduct themselves in a theatre go to the movies. if you want to chat with your dumb ass friends, STAY AT HOME or GO TO A PUB or STAND ON A STREET CORNER AND TALK ABOUT THE GOOD OLE DAYS, or whatever. that being said, i saw a matinee of SERENITY the other day and there were a few "browncoats" there, but nobody was acting stupid. apparently, they "aimed to misbehave" after the film was over. actually, it was very pleasent and fun experience because afterwards there were little groups of fanbots chattering away. personally it warms my zombie heart when people get excited about this stuff. all of the hate i read here from both sides i find really exasperrating. you should be supporting geeklove, not trashing it... you're welcome. ___ as for the movie, I loved it. i'm definately going to be watching (i think i'd rather just watch 'em then buy em) the DVDs soon. this is easily the best new / fun / clever sci-fi thingee i've seen in a long while. finally, somebody realized this stuff is supposed to be fun! no clunky, somber, over-wrought backstory that just about kills EVERYTHING these days... the ironic thing being, this actually has a big backstory! but it's a really cool, efficient, and streamlined one. i'm looking forward to continuing stories of these folks. they're kewl.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, noon CST

    DamnTheTorpedoes, you should be ashamed of yourself...

    by MechaTruffautMk2

    "You bashed a film without seeing it and without giving it a chance just because it was made by Joss Whedon. That, in itself, is a travesity. Closed-mindedness in this day and age is the reason why we fight Islamic fundamentalists and are attacked without accord or mercy. Closed-mindedness is the reason why we are soon to be slaves to a law that got sneaked under the table at Congress. Closed-mindedness is the reason why women are slaughtered and mutilated if they make a life-choice contrary to the pulse of the tribe." We're talking about a silly sci-fi show here. Passioniate as you may be, give me a fucking break. Pulling Islamic fundamentalists and oppressed women into this mockery of both those issues and all the others you reference. Why don't you just call us Nazis and compare yourself to a persecuted Jew? You like a TV show, and some people feel that show isn't very good. Get a grip. You should be ashamed of yourself.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 12:05 p.m. CST

    Sorry -- IKIRU Is Based On Tolstoy's DEATH OF IVAN ILLYCH

    by ZombieSolutions

    it's easy to confuse russian authors sometimes. either way, it has nothing to do with space cowboys or their distant cousin -- the samuraii. btw, SERENITY was great. i get the feeling most of the hate is coming from people who haven't even seen it. too bad for them. i thought it was a lot of fun. certainly alot more fun than the first two STAR WARS prequels or the last 5 or 6 STAR TREK movies and spin off shows. was it a revelation? nah. was it cool and fun and witty and neato? yep!

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 12:35 p.m. CST

    hauptman has no idea what he's talking about...

    by WillowFan2001

    So Serenity did less than $4m on opening night. $3.945m ain't bad. Not to mention, when you see that it was only on about 2140 screens, the amount of money it made PER SCREEN blows every other film last night out of the water. Whedon's wonder got over $1800 a screen, on a night when Flight Plan (the #1 movie last night in terms of total dollars, but on over 1000 more screens than Serenity) pulled in only about $1300 per screen. Check the numbers yourself. I guess it's true. You can't stop the signal. Also, for those of you who can't stand the term "Browncoats" because it's so close to "Brownshirts," realize this: We take that term from the Firefly 'verse. It has to do with rebels against an oppressive government, standing tall and fighting for their right to be heardand to run their own lives. It has NOTHING to do with oppression in any way. As far as that comparison goes, with you telling us to shut up because what we love sucks, we're the Browncoats--and YOU'RE the Brownshirts.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 12:36 p.m. CST

    melodrama for men

    by speed

    mr whedon has it down. fair enough if you like your soap operas. and it looks like quite a few do. But you sort of get the feeling it's like somebody who bought a brand new Honda Acura (which is an good car) trying to convince you it's as good as a ferrari. a fan base has got to know it's limitations otherwise you are just some lard arsed lazy chick sitting on a sofa watching TV all day getting stuck into her dude cause he asked her to lose some weight.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 12:37 p.m. CST

    Trolling is when comments are made simply to be spiteful and sti

    by MechaTruffautMk2

    ...of fans of a particular show, or movie, or what have you. I don't think it can't be called trolling to post in a Serenity talkback that I think the movie looks horrible, the show was pretty bad, and the fans are obnoxious when Moriarty, the original author, makes his feelings on the latter point pretty obvious. Is Moriarty trolling by posting his opinion? Firefly fans can like the show, and they're allowed to post about that fact, and defend themselves from non-fans, etc. Just as I can post about the fact that I disagree with them! But though I may not like the show or the zealous people who adore it, but I'm certainly not going to bring up terrorism, misogony to verify my point. That's really ridiculous and inexcusable.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 12:40 p.m. CST

    a little disappointing?

    by drewATX

    $4,200,000 for Serenity last night. Do the math. Maybe it will do well enough on DVD to warrant a sequel

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 12:44 p.m. CST

    a fan but not psychotic

    by the_pissboy1

    I like the show. I don't preach about it and I've only suggested 3 people watch it. All 3 embraced it wholeheartedly. By the way, they should never, ever show fans of sci-fi in commercials for a movie. It's like a virgin parade.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 12:46 p.m. CST

    Speaking Of Which, COWBOY BEEBOP (Clearly A HUGE Influence Here)

    by ZombieSolutions

    also, clearly Mal is Han Solo. Whedon has hijakced this coolness and made it his own. remember back when STAR WARS was cool and not embarrasingly bad (except for EIII, which i loved)? me too. maybe Lucas can hire Whedon and/or his phalanx of talented writers who actually care about the material to write the STAR WARS tv show? hmm...

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 1:16 p.m. CST

    That Whedon Made Ikiru post was made after Tonay said something

    by seppukudkurosawa

    how Kurosawa is Whedon's bitch, or some such variation on those words. He also said that anyone who claims that Seven Samurai is amongst their favourite movies obviously hates the film. So I took the surreal route to hit him back. I hate replying to Tonay because it makes you look like you run huge long-winded discourses with your "other side", and call that schized head-buddy of yours names like Yvette.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 2:02 p.m. CST

    This site has become a gathering of insecure dolts who can't

    by Voice O. Reason

    Is there any chance of people who have actually seen this movie discussing the merits/criticisms of the movie? The guy earlier who admitted he hadn't seen the movie, but compared what little he saw of "Firefly" to "Cleaopatra 2525" and "VR5" was a little more ridicules than my rational mind can handle.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Hey, seppukudkurosawa

    by ZombieSolutions

    yeah, i was kinda thinking that was your intention. but hey, i was wrong anyway! Ikiru was based on Tolstoy's "Death Of Ivan Illych," not Doestoyevskys "The Idiot" ________ btw, i'm starting to get the feeling that Tonay, or whatever it calls itself now, is just an ubertroll who will call out anyone. i enjoy Whedon's stuff, but there is NO WAY IN HELL he even comes close to being as good as Kurosawa; and there is no way any sane person could make this kind of assertion and actaully mean it. to say that Whedon is better than Kurosawa is just pure madness. methinks he's just pulling your chain... or he/she/it actaully means it and is typing these posts from the isolation ward at Arkham Assylum...)

  • It's sad that the theatre experience can be so bad... that even my wife, being such a big fan of Joss and all his shows, will refuse to see it until it's released on dvd. Sad. So sad.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Cleopatra 2525 4 Life

    by MechaTruffautMk2

    Alright, alright, I won't complain anymore. I didn't mean to sound like an asshole. Enjoy the movie/series if you like it.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 3:24 p.m. CST


    by ZombieSolutions

    that's why The Powers created matinees! they're the best! they're cheaper, and none of the jackasses are there -- it's just people who love movies. seriously, it's the only way to go...

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 3:31 p.m. CST

    Re: WillowFan2001

    by Spaz Medicine

    I am too lazy to do the math, but I think A History Of Violence had a better per screen average. If not, it is damn close. And no matter how you cut it, 4 mill is a disappointment. You can feed me the "per screen" BS all you want, but a 12 million dollar opening weekend is not one the studio was hoping for.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 3:45 p.m. CST

    overnight box office returns?

    by reinhold

    Where did you guys find those figures?

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 5:03 p.m. CST

    "Oh, and anyone who says it's as good as, or even close to e

    by ZombieSolutions

    well, i'm far from a crazy fanatic, and i'd agree that there is no way SERENITY is going to define the pop-cultural landscape like the original STAR WARS did, BUT it is definately working from the same cloth / has the same appeal (narratively, if not in the EFX department) that STAR WARS *used* to have before it got bogged down by Lucas' ponderous, clunky, somber, boring buzz kill of an over-wrought backstory that just about killed the series (as can be witnessed in the disasters that are E1 and EII) until EIII came along as an 11th hour franchise saver. interestingly enough, pretty much every professional review i've read echoes these sentiments... go figure. must be a lot of lunatics. Roger Ebert? New York Times? all lunatics. yep.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 5:09 p.m. CST

    BTW, Ringbearer9

    by ZombieSolutions

    I Love STAR WARS and LOTR so don't go turning this into a Star Wars vs. LOTR vs. Serenity war cause that would be silly. No hate, just debate.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 5:12 p.m. CST


    by RogueScribner

    And people talk the way David Mamet writes them? Or George Lucas? And how would you know how people will talk in 500 years anyway? It's a FANTASY!!! If you're biggest complaint about FIREFLY is how people talk then you didn't really give the show a chance. Not everyone has to like everything that I do, but if you're going to dislike something, at least try to be informed about it rather than ignorant.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 5:22 p.m. CST

    Apparently, The Like SERENITY Over At LFL

    by ZombieSolutions

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 5:35 p.m. CST

    My Opinion if you care

    by BenFerris

    It was fabulous platypus I thought the movie was great. I hope the buzz gets moving so it wins the weekend.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 5:51 p.m. CST

    Farscape in Syndication

    by Roj Blake

    Farscape is *finally* in syndication. In addition to playing on WGN (it was on earlier this afternoon), this link will take you to a list of stations around the country where you can catch it: * Moving on...nice to see some people sticking up for 'Scape here and it's good to know it hasn't been entirely forgotten. The FS story is in a great place for a possible theatrical film. It could really go just about anywhere at this point and next to nothing of importance was left dangling at the end of the miniseries. FS begs for your patience and support. If you can make it to the middle of S2, you WILL be sucked in and it'll become your temporary tele-media crack 'til you finish off the whole thing. I've always been rather amazed that there doesn't appear to be anyone in the AICN hierarchy that became a 'Scape fanatic. Clearly I am biased, but it seems to have just about everything the AICN dudes hold sacred: babes, 'splosions, storytelling, humor, ships, guns, action, aliens and so on and so on. Is there a single geek amongst the big guys (Harry, Mori, Quint, Herc et al.) here who has viewed the entire series from beginning to end? I do not mean that as a criticism, but rather as a simple query.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 5:55 p.m. CST


    by supertoyslast

    I can't be bothered to read the whole of the talkback, but did anyone claim not to want to see Serenity this weekend because of fear of overzealous fans? I'm not going to see it because overzealous opinions in talkbacks have put me off the film. I suspect it may be the same for others. I really couldn't care less who shares an auditorium with me. This looks like it will take between $15-20 million this weekend. The dropoff next weekend will give a better indication of audience reaction, but it seems that boxoffice will be not great but not awful - pretty much as most predicted. DVD sales should be pretty good, though.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 6:38 p.m. CST

    Oh Well, I Really Liked It Lots

    by ZombieSolutions

    i hope it does well; at least well enough that it returns as a series or something. i know i'd like to see more fun, witty, snarky, ragtag space cowboy adventures...

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 6:44 p.m. CST

    "I'm not sure the movie would have much appeal for non-sci-f

    by ZombieSolutions

    Is that negative? sounds like you're grasping at straws, man. if you didn't like it, that's cool, but it sounds to me like Ebert liked it. he's giving an honest review. of course you're entitled to your opinion, but trying to convince other people that they're wrong or "crazy" for liking it is kinda, i don't know, sad? sure it's cliche, but you think STAR WARS, LOTR, and THE MATRIX aren't cliche? really?

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 8:28 p.m. CST

    C'mon now don't make up the numbers

    by JUSTICE41

    Serenity took in an estimated 3.9 million on Friday. It will probably end up a bit more. Todays take will tell whether anyone cares about this flick. besides There's College football on today and pro Ball tomorrow and the MLB playoffs is about to happen. Movies will be lucky to mak good BO. Then again maybe the movies just shit.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 8:30 p.m. CST

    Re: Ringbearer9

    by spikerules2

    Ringbearer9, Are you one of those people that can't stand it when a new sci-fi writer/director gets more credit than Ridley Scott and George Lucas? You're clutching at straws man! If you read the sentence after he stated he heard sound guys clanging lids; you would have read: - "I say this not with disapproval, but with affection. "Serenity" is an old-fashioned space opera, and differs from a horse opera mostly in that it involves space, not horses" But you left that bit out for some reason... I wonder why? And us Whedon fans scare Quint and Mori? I think they should look no further than yourself for downright dumbness that scares the **** out of me! With every post you make, you just prove that Quint and Mori and VERY VEEEERRRY wrong.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 8:30 p.m. CST

    I'm here for you.

    by cutest_of_borg

    Now that Serenity has proven itself a box office dud and the hope of a sequel/miniseries/resurrection series has disappeared, I lovingly embrace you Firefly fans back into the Trek fold. Trek will always be here for you. Come to poppa.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 8:35 p.m. CST

    All this hate

    by AttackingClone

    Why do people come onto talkbacks just to hate? If you don't like the film or the show or Joss why come into this page at all. Bugger off. I love Serenity, and (shock horror) LOTR and Star Wars, MY GOD I MUST BE INSANE.******************And some replies to statements-"I will download this movie because I have some respect for Joss"-You have no respect for Joss. I loathe people who download films. You sir, are a fucking tightarse, spend a few bucks to see a film, or don't see it at all.------"No-one speaks like that"-Point A-this is set 500 years in the future, if you spoke like we do now 500 years ago, you too would seem like a tool. Also, you probably praise LOTR, "my body is broken" whilst being crushed by a horse. Hmm, now thats realistic dialogue.------I'm just sick of all the hate, not just with this film, but it seems every other film that comes out is poured over with hateful ramblings by some of you people. I'm sick of this friggin place, it just makes me mad. Have a good life wasting it in here fellas. Im outta here for good.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 8:36 p.m. CST

    by spikerules2

    Wasn't more it more than a tad over $4m?

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 8:45 p.m. CST

    Oh god, nothing makes me laugh more

    by Gheorghe Zamfir

    than the people who post in talkbacks to say they aren't going to post in the talkback anymore.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 8:49 p.m. CST

    Oh MY, nothing makes me laugh more

    by spikerules2

    than the people who post in the talkbacks to insult people that aren't even here anymore and can't defend themselves:)

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 8:51 p.m. CST

    RogueScribner -- Are You Posing Yourself As Joss Whedon?

    by ZombieSolutions

    if you are Joss (which I doubt) -- don't you have more important things to do this weekend than post on AICN? _____ btw, i loved the movie; i hope it works out and we get more shows / movies. i thought it was much coolness. (psst, bring back Buffy / Angel, pwease?) good luck!

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 8:56 p.m. CST

    Hey, I never insulted him

    by Gheorghe Zamfir

    just laughed at him.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 8:59 p.m. CST

    Hey, I really dont care

    by spikerules2

    and now we're laughing at you.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 9:06 p.m. CST

    Lol, obviously I touched some nerve with you

    by Gheorghe Zamfir

    sometimes I forget how oddly over sensitive folks can get on here, well I guess I don't forget really, since that was pretty much what I was laughing at in the first place, and now you're just giving me more of it, and yep, its still funny.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 9:07 p.m. CST

    Yes, beaten by flightplan, BUT

    by Heisenberg85

    Flightplan was in many more theaters. Serenity's per screen earnings were better than flightplans, but slightly beyond those of A History of Violence. The key thing is that it was a relatively cheap movie, will squeak out maybe 20-30 mil domestic, about the or more international, and then sell quite a few dvds. In the end it will turn a profit. Will there be sequels? Hard to tell, I bet it will be Whedon's decision. And how pathetic are you haters laughing at a movies performance? That's real mature, being happy that something people loves may not be a success. Immature ignorant idiots. We don't really care though, we got our movie, and at the end of the day that's what matters. We don't need to the approval of you haters, or the public. Look at the shitty stuff the does do well at the box office, on tv, or in record sales. Public success is a very poor indicator of quality.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 9:33 p.m. CST

    Why is everyone harping on per screen averages?

    by I Dunno

    This isn't 1970, when there was one theater within driving distance. Most cities have at least 3 or 4 theaters they can easily get to. Unless you live in Buttfuck USA, if you want to see the movie you can get to the movie. I wanted this film to do well, I really did, despite my only "liking it" as opposed to wanting to give it the reacharound that all the Browncoats wanted. The more sci-fi films that do well the better. But unfortunatly this didn't do very well. Which sucks because this ans Riddick are like the only original sci-fi/space movies in a long time. Who knows, Friday is a big sci-fi night on TV. Maybe all the geeks put off seeing it until tonight. But in any case, I wouldn't hold me breathe for a sequel.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 9:49 p.m. CST

    Just saw Serenity and...

    by zekmoe

    I loved it. I love these characters, this universe, and the feel of the whole thing. Yes, it was like many critics and early reveiwers said. But that's a good thing IMHO. THe death of Wash was too quick, and wasn't "felt" enough, but that was probably intentional, to show what a time these loners come from. The only thing I wish was done/said, was when the Assasin at the end was talking to Mal, he should have said something like "Well, I have a feel to do something positive, like be a shepherd, like one of our greatest left to do" so you got the idea that the shepard was one of these super assasins. That would have tied it up perfectly. Anyway, loved it, hated the theater sound, but needed to see it now. I'll buy the DVD and watch it properly in a few months.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 10:25 p.m. CST


    by AeroB

    Serenity cost only $40 million to make. If it pulls over $10 million this weekend (which it is well on course to do it seems) then there is a very high likelihood that after the DVD and international releases it'll pull in a tidy profit for Universal. Last time I checked, making a profit is the opposite of a flop. And if it makes at least a few million profit, there could well be sequels. So you can say "told you so" all you want, now. You'll be having your words turned around on you in 6 months when Serenity 2 is greenlit.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 10:27 p.m. CST

    bought ticket for Corpse Bride, saw Serenity.

    by Darth Philbin

    sucked about as much as Riddick or Stargate or Matrix, etc. didn't feel that I should give any of my money to an unoriginal hack that calls his disciples Browneyes and begs them to go Jehovah Witness to non-fans to buy a ticket for this made-for-tv-movie. but at this point I might as well start sucking Whedon's cock too because we all know that he is going to helm the weekly Star Wars Han & Chewie TV Power Hour.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 10:49 p.m. CST

    Well damn it all

    by Bass Ackwards

    Had to put up with months of Whedon fans going on and on about how this film was gonna blow us all away, be a surprise box office success, everyone was going to have to eat their words. Now that its obvious that it won't even make a profit in theater, much less be a modest hit, I thought for sure that would shut some mouths. Looks like instead we're going to have the next few months listening to the Whedon fans swear that, ok ok, now its going to be a surprise DVD success, you just wait! Than after that I'm sure it'll be months of how it'll be a ratings success on its TNT network premier. And than just telling us the film made money because loyal Whedon fans went to the studio and simply donated money in Whedon's name. And then it will all start over as Wonder Woman comes around.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 11:02 p.m. CST

    Um, spoilers.

    by Heisenberg85

    Thanks for the spoilers about character deaths. Yes Evil White Man, I am an idiot, you ass. I should have explained it a bit better though. It looks like Whedon has moved on to other projects. Would another Serenity movie get made without Whedon being the driving force? Doubtful. If Serenity turns a profit the studio might see a potential franchise, which studios love. But if Whedon doesn't push it himself it won't be made, so it's his decision to continue the franschise or not. You hating asshole.

  • Oct. 1, 2005, 11:30 p.m. CST


    by Benjamin Horne

    That is so gay.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 12:29 a.m. CST

    Last 20 minutes sucked

    by looklost

    Went with my wife, theatre was packed but she was the only female there. She turned to me just before the start of the movie and asked me if this was a gay thing.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 12:45 a.m. CST Mecha?

    by Billyeveryteen

    "These "Browncoaters" have thirteen half-hours to base their craziness on." I'm pretty sure Firefly was an hour long show.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 12:45 a.m. CST

    Rolo Tamasi

    by AeroB

    I would be surprised if this film does not at least break even in combined domestic/international income from the theatrical release. It's gotten all-around positive reviews and critical praise (RottenTomatoes if you don't believe me), and the word of mouth I've heard has been good... hell, even Harry, Mori, and Quint are giving it positive reviews, albeit reviews biased and tempered by a hatred of the fandom. Those kinds of factors should definitely contribute to the film having "legs" so to speak and continuing to pull in money consistently over the next weeks. Is it going to be a surprise blockbuster? No, and I can't speak for others, but I don't think I ever said it would be. I think it's going to break even or turn a small profit in the theaters, and then when it hits DVD that'll be where the noticeable profits start coming in. It doesn't have to be a "surprise DVD success", either--if half the people who bought Firefly DVDs buy the Serenity DVD, that's enough. And any way you look at it, Firefly was a big success on DVD, so I'd be shocked if it sells that few copies. In conclusion: go fuck yourself with your arrogant head-up-ass remarks.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 1:44 a.m. CST

    You guys sure have a real glossy understanding of business

    by Bass Ackwards

    I'm not sure what you think the number is for the Firefly DVD sales, but if half the people who bought Firefly DVDs buy a Serenity DVD, that would make about 250,000 DVDs sold. And general rule of thumb with theatrical release, a movie needs to make back about twice what it cost before it breaks even, since only roughly half the money movie's make gets back to the studio. To do the math for you, with a 40 million dollar production budget, Serenity needs to make at least 80 million dollars before the studio starts to see some green from the theatrical release. You like the movie or you don't, and I could care less. But if you wanna sit there and try to pretend that some financial success has been couped from what looks sure to be a terribly lackluster opening (its Friday is weaker than the #1 or #2 films last week or the week before), you ought to at least have a clue about what you're talking about.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 2 a.m. CST

    Rolo and Darth

    by optimus122

    First to Darth , your the hack so please get cancer and die as soon as possible , im praying for it... Rolo , firefly sold over a million dvd's and its a season series which for most of its life in the last year was going for 2 times the price of a normal dvd..people who seen this movie without seeing the series are now buying the series dvds and then will buy the movie dvd...and the movie dvd will sell way more then a million copies. That said ya the boxoffice total is low but its a niche movie based on an a cancelled tv sci fi series..if it makes 30 or 40 million world wide and sells a ton of DVD's it will be pretty amazing...hell movies with huge stars like bewitched made no money at all and thats with 2 of the hottest actors in Kidman and Ferrel. Also I think this movie will do decent business next weekend too and may hang around for a while..if im wrong , who gives a fuck.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 2:12 a.m. CST

    "firefly sold over a million dvd's"

    by Bass Ackwards

    Where do you get the figure of a million DVDs? I was just going off a USA Today article from last week, which reported it as 500,000 to date (and like I said, that was just a week ago). But I do get that for a box set of a tv that got low ratings, DVD sales were impressive, and I actually do agree that the movie will sell more copies just based on what an average movie's dvd sales are, don't know if that'll mean much, but yep.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 2:17 a.m. CST

    Got it from

    by optimus122

    I don't remember where I seen it all I know is about 15 months ago or a little more it had sales of 200,000 copies and thats when the movie was greenlighted..its been available since Dec 2003 so thats a long time now and its now #3 on amazon. It continues to see a lot of copies. To be honest I didn't am not one of those people who thought it would make a killing at the BO , I figured maybe 12 million. This show is better suited for TV , a miniseries or 3 on sci fi would have been better IMHO.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 2:19 a.m. CST


    by optimus122

    I am sorry for the botched up english lol , no friggin edit button here is ridiculous. With all the hits they get here I am shocked they don't put real Bulletin board software on this site.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 2:21 a.m. CST

    Blue Gloves v. Reevers v. Crazy Sister.

    by warp11

    The series always talked about the Reevers but never showed them until the movie. The guys with blue gloves showed up once in the series, but never showed up in the film.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 2:23 a.m. CST

    It was brave of Joss to kill off major characters.

    by warp11

    Can't wait for the direct to DVD sequel. The film was good though.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 2:46 a.m. CST

    It can sell all the DVD's it wants

    by JUSTICE41

    Fox Makes all that money. Fox is distributing the Firefly DVD's. They own that right. Sales of Firefly DVD's aren't helping Universal one bit. Rupert is just making more money every day off you suckers. So keep buying

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 4:20 a.m. CST

    "Browcoats" can kiss my a$$

    by SG7

    Saw this opening night in a theater stuffed full of lard ass mouth breathing cyber-nerd "browncoats" who ruined what as in essence a super fun movie. With their forced giggles and laughs at all the humorous bits, and since they are all as emotonally mature as peat-moss they giggled at stuff that was not supposed to be funny as well. You'd think these people had never had sex before. Oh. Wait. Listening to the conversations around me before the film was entertaining too, as they chattered as if every itnernet rumor was the gospel truth, with three films alread green-lit, or the series returning. And when the lights dimmed and the film started they just didn't shut the fuck up and just continued making noise. In the imortal words of The Shatner: GET A LIFE!. Jesus. Cannot wait for this on DVD so I can listen to the fucking dialog without having some fat nerd-cow-bitch giggling in the seat next to me through the whole god-dammnd movie.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 4:27 a.m. CST


    by SG7

    ...and I liked the movie. I think I said that up there in that rant. The third act was a bit weak. But overall I really dug it. If only I hadn't been surrounded by complete 'tards. The movie was sold out. All showings friday. But we're nerd dense here in Redmond WA.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 6:50 a.m. CST


    by optimus122

    Wow , who would have guessed that the firefly dvd money would still go to fox even after serenity was released by universal , ah duh.. What does matter to Universal or any potential investor is to keep seeing these firefly dvds and the eventual serenity dvd's flying off the shelves as that means the franchise is marketable and will warrant more product , even if its miniseries or tv movies , regular movie or whatever.

  • (sorry) anyway, do we know how much money this made yet? I'm not really a big fan, but I'd love to see some sequels (or maybe not, I still have to wait like 2 months for it to open here, so I wouldn't know if it sucks). How long does it take them to figure it out usually? Also: Hi kids, I'm Kevin Smith!

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 7:50 a.m. CST


    by CuervoJones

    thanks to eMule, i can see shows unseen in my country. I love that western stuff.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 9:20 a.m. CST

    Not exactly

    by Razorback

    Conservative estimates were $15 million (not $12). Liberal estimates were $25 million. Sunday is usually the lowest take. I am guessing that Saturday may pull in $5 million, and Sunday $3 million. So, around $12 million, give or take a million. I am sure a bunch of Browncoats can run around spinning the numbers any which way, but Friday was not a good sign. However, if the fan base devotes itself to seeing this movie over and over, and it has similar numbers next week, then low first week numbers will not matter.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 9:24 a.m. CST

    SG7, you don't happen to live in the NYC area?

    by Razorback

    I ask because I had a similar experience on Friday. A couple of (obvious) Browncoats were giggling it up during the wrong moments because River or Mal, or Simon or someone, had something to say. I mean, it isn't supposed to be funny when you think someone might die, and yet there went the Browncoaties giggling like a bunch of little girls at everything. I thought I was going to be the only one with that story.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 9:40 a.m. CST

    Saw the Movie on Friday

    by NubtheSquirrel

    Never have seen an episode of Firefly but after seeing the movie, I am dying to see the show. I thought the movie owned and I hope Whedon makes more!

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 9:41 a.m. CST

    It may have some small legs

    by optimus122

    I think it will do decent business next week and weekend too , I predict final domestic take at probably 25-35 million with another 15 from outside the US and then huge DVD sales which will make Universal either break even or make a small amount of money. I seriously doubt that in the long run the movie will lose money but I don't know if it will make any either

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 10:33 a.m. CST


    by Mista Mann

    You shouldn't avoid a movie because of its obnoxious fanbase. A vocal minority, I might add. I love Firefly. When it comes up, or if I have a chance, I'll mention it to someone. I let a couple people borrow my DVD set. That's about it. And I think most people are about my level. So it's not like the ENTIRE Firefly fanbase raids theaters in brown trenchcoats. And you certainly shouldn't disregard a movie because a few of them are aggressive about it. That's just vindictive. That's faulting someone for another person's crime. That's like hating a really good band because you met some stupid kids that like them. Don't let some random other people get in the way of something you might like. It's retarded. Fuckers.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 10:46 a.m. CST

    This was a great movie...

    by Thorfin

    I loved it. I hope it makes enough money to justify sequels. I kinda hope it makes just enough money that certain talkbackers can claim it was a flop, while others can claim it was a hit.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 10:57 a.m. CST

    He gave away 10 or 12 copies of the box set for Xmas?!?

    by Jar Jar 4 Prez

    I fucking hate rich people. This only discredits your opinion more with me.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 11:53 a.m. CST

    Estimated $10.1 million opening weekend?

    by supertoyslast

    Check out I thought $15 million was a conservative estimate - but the taking actually went DOWN on Saturday. That's not very common so it seems that it really is just the fans going to see this. When Herc was defending the late September opening as not being a dumping ground he listed a load of movies that went on to make $100 million or more. I really wanted to pin him (or other browncoats) down to a prediction since there seemed to be some certainty that it would have crossover appeal. But most were cagey about such estimates (rightfully it turned out) so if anyone can find a talkback where some browncoats make estimates for the opening weekend I would love to see it. After all, as Latauro pointed out, box office is important for sequels to get made. I guess Firefly fans really don't care if they see any sequels or not if box office now doesn't matter to them. DVD sales should be good, though, and it would be interesting to see how much sales of the TV series DVD rise now that the movie is out.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 12:29 p.m. CST

    Moriarity, maybe you should call those overzealous fans "Reavers

    by Craiggers

    Wow, moriarity, you sure paint a pretty picture of Serenity fans. One would think they were so craven and bloodthirsty they should be called "Reavers" instead. I think that the root of these fans' pathos, though I feel that Moriarity is exaggerating and making much ado about nothing, is that they want this movie to succeed. I consider myself a browncoat, but I'm not going to stand outside of the theaters with a sandwich board, ringing a bell and spewing vile curses at anyone that isn't coming to see Serenity. I do feel like it would be a great shame if this fantastic movie goes unoticed because the public at large is so ignorant and braindead they prefer to see Jessica Alba in a bikini for 2 hours instead of a movie that is quite possibly the best sci-fi movie to come out since The Matrix. I'm not saying that Serenity is anything like the Matrix, but I couldn't help but feel the same way watching it as I did wathing Matrix; that feeling that this was a movie that would take everyone by surprise and become a big deal. I saw Matrix opening day, and not long after, that feeling was proved correct. Lets just hope Serenity doesn't spawn two shitty sequels and we'll be fine. But I digress. The fans, overzealous as they may be, just don't want to see a talent like joss Whedon fail on his face because the American public is too stupid to "get it". They don't want to see their beloved television show fall into obscurity AGAIN, when the sheer quality of this movie seems a shimmering light of hope for resurrection of the characters we knew and loved from Firefly. So hows about we distinguish these so called "Browncoats", people like me that only want to see the movie succeed for the sake of our love for the show it is based off of, from the "Reavers", people who viciously attack anyone and everyone that says the least bit negative thing about Buffy, Angel, Firely, Serenity, Whedon, or Alien: Resurrection (Well, maybe not so much Alien).

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 12:38 p.m. CST

    goodbye Mal, Zoe, Jayne, etc

    by TodayzSpecial

    not enough money on the opening weekend. that's too bad. Honestly, it is a good movie. More emotional than Star Wars. Better paced than War of the Worlds. Easily the best geek movie of the year behind Batman Begins. Whedon haters are typical on boards like these. They're just trying to spin the pot. A good movie is a good movie and Serenity provides better entertainment than most along with an interesting story and characters. Its a pity. I think the marketing strategy was a little wonky on this movie. It looks like a small movie in the trailers. They should've pushed its strenghts: character, action and humor. Not necessarily in that order, but I think it would've made a wider audience go. Advertising directly to all the online geeks is unnecessary. They'll go anyway. Moreover you run the risk of "normal" people being scared of the fanboys and going to see something they're familiar with instead. Which is probably the reason Flightplan won the number one spot again despite dismal reviews. They wanted to go see Oscar winning Jodie Foster take down a plane to find her daughter. Marketing is tricky and they experimented and lost with Serenity.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 12:48 p.m. CST

    Another possible reason for such vehement fandom are the jerkass

    by Craiggers

    It is all of the people with apparently nothing better to do than antagonize the fans. As I read the posts, I wasn't surprised to find several posts whose sole purpose was to piss people off. It's alright to post a negative review, fine, that's what Talkback is here for - lively debate. But these people that post "Whedon is gay" or post how Flightplan beat Serenity opening day then laugh maniacally are jackasses with no girlfriends who sit in their dark, dark computer rooms all day playing World of Warcraft and occasionally check back to sites such as this to shit on whatever movie people are going nuts for, because it is the only source of pleasure that allows them to clap their Cheetos stained hands together besides jerking off to screencaps of Morgan Webb from X-Play. As Roger Ebert put it, "you know who you are".

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 12:52 p.m. CST

    I'm not judging the film based on its fans.

    by ZeroCorpse

    I'm just saying I don't want to sit in a movie theater with you people. Just like I wouldn't want to sit in on an Amway meeting, any of David Koresh's gatherings, or Marshall Applewhite's speeches. I know a freaky group of brainwashed fuckers when I see them.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 12:55 p.m. CST

    Apparently, non-Browncoats or Buffyites just "don't get it"

    by ZeroCorpse

    Which is what most cult members say when people slam doors in their faces. Just watch- Joss is going to be the head of some fucked up religion.

  • I cannot believe I'm the only one. Please, speak out people!Plus, people who say they are a "Whedonite" rather than a fan specifying which show they like more, is most likely a cult member. Beware.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Since when did being a fan of something mean you were in a relig

    by Craiggers

    I mean, I agree with you somewhat ZeroCorpse, that zealous fans (i.e Trekkies, Warsies, MSTies, and obviously, Browncoats) are pretty freaky to be around. But it's hardly as bad as the examples you gave. I mean, jesus, David Koresh? That's a bit extreme. And brainwashed? I loved Serenity, and Firefly before it, but I don't think I'm going to go "Manchurian Candidate" on anyone anytime soon, nor will anyone else. Hey, it could be worse; at least in Serenity, they wear pretty contemporary clothes, so there won't be costumed fan in line (unless they wear browncoats, which I admit, would just be gay).

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 2:26 p.m. CST

    $10 Mil Opening Wknd

    by chickychow

    Oh well. I wasn't rooting for or against it, but I think all the fighting is kinda funny...

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 2:26 p.m. CST

    I can see where you're coming from Evil White Man

    by Craiggers

    I know people like you're describing and that shit does get on my nerves too man. People that act all high and mighty because they've discovered the "greatest show on Earth" and feel they must spread the word. Yeah, preachy people, gotta hate them. That's why I'm not a religious person, though that's not particularly relevent here. I know people that are like, "You have GOT to check this show out" and actually throw temper tantrums (mind you, these are people in their mid twenties) when you either don't like the show or don't want to watch it. I admit, I get that way sometimes. When there's a movie or a show I feel a friend of mine MUST see because I KNOW he'll like it, I can be pushy about it. But I always tell them, "Just watch a couple of episodes, you don't like it, we won't watch it" but more often than not, I'm usually right. The difference, though, is if they have no interest or don't like the show/movie, I drop it. Fuck it; it's not their cup of tea.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 2:31 p.m. CST

    Craiggers, Star Wars fans are called "Star Wars fans" not "Warsi

    by Razorback

    Get your labels right.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 2:56 p.m. CST

    Well, its official...Serenity has TANKED!

    by jrbarker

    Take a look at the box office numbers for this weekend.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 3:02 p.m. CST

    Marketing is very bad.....

    by The True Priapic

    ...advertising it as 'from the maker of Buffy and Angel' make you think of TV.When most of us go to the cinema we like to think we're leaving the TV at home for a night.Think about it 'from the maker of DESPERATE HOUSEWIFES'.Nah,no thanks...'FRom the Maker of NIP/TUCK'...Hmm,maybe sex in it but fuck it....from the maker of EASTENDERS.....fuuuuuuuuuuck offfffffff.....hope Tonay and its many ids are glad.Welcome to being an underclass geek,dudes/dudettes/wankers.Perhaps they were anti-plants............hmmmmmmm.......christ,it worked for me...I'd rather go into a pub around Euston station with eyeliner on than see this.....less painful....

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Hey, I've seen Star Wars fans referred to as "Warsies" befor

    by Craiggers

    I didn't just make this shit up. There are Warsies. Go ahead, go out and find that guy in town that dresses in Jedi robes as part of his normal attire and ask him about it. I garuantee he'll have heard the word before. Warsies. It's logical that Star Wars fans would call themselves this also, when you think back to the days when Star Trek geeks and Star Wars geeks would clash over which franchise was better. Is it not entirely possible that in response to Star Trek fans labeling themselves (or being labeled) "Trekkies" Star Wars fans responded by calling themselves "Warsies"? It as a dark day back then, when the battlefield of sci-fi conventions were littered with the dead bodies of Starfleet officers and Stormtroopers, some having died still interlocked in a death struggle. Brings a tear to me eye.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 3:23 p.m. CST

    The movie hasn't really "TANKED"

    by Craiggers

    Especially in consideration that this particular weekend has been the slowest weekend of the slowest month of movies in a year (beside January and February, those months are usually reserved for the studios "Spring cleaning"). Also, just because the movie doesn't do well financially (there is still the DVDs - movie studios pay attention to those sales just as much as ticket sales) what is important is that is garnered strong, positive reviews. So it didn't completely tank. I'm sure, when the studio higher ups are considering sequel possibilites, they will definately take into account the positive press the movie recieved. Universal did a great job trying to get this movie out there; they picked a great month to release it and stood by it. It is much better than the typical strategy with niche movies like this, which is, as Whedon himself put it, "hide the movie until release and then run like bunnies". It'll all work out nomatter how depressing the first weekend is.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 3:26 p.m. CST


    by The True Priapic

    ...yeah,when I drove over to see Sith on a 12 midnight showing I had to stop at a zebra crossing on my way to pick up my pals and a guy(a Dad,I guess) and his little kid were dressed in full Jedi and Padawan gear.The little lad must have been about 6ish.I laughed but then I felt 'good for them',and thought that it wasnt that far from wearing a footie shirt or such.I find it strange that certain fans limit themselves to being called 'intellectual' names....fucks sake..have fun with it.....our times short on this planet,fuck what other people think.In my own small way I bought a Madman shirt from Forbidden Planet(although I WAS a Madmnan fan first..)I admit to doing it because Jason Lee is one cool fucker....err....or rather his Smith characters were cool(Banky DID have a heart,at least)...I doubt Lee wears one in real life...but fuck me..that guy can skateboard

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 3:28 p.m. CST

    re: Optimus

    by Darth Philbin

    Thanks for the post - glad to see that I got under your brownmouth skin. Praying for cancer on someone? I read Howard Stern's book too, so next time try to be a little less Whedon-like and come up with an original idea. ...oh and since I actually *do* have cancer, I look forward to sharing a drink with you in Hell...that is if you can break away from your ass-to-mouth orgies with Brian Singer and Freddie Mercury.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 3:46 p.m. CST

    True Priapic

    by Craiggers

    I know what you mean. When I went to see Episode III, there were several people standing in line in costumes. Rather than feeling pity or ridicule towards them, I did have that feeling of "good for them". I would warrant to say that I felt rather proud, almost as if this were my movie being released or something. It was nice to see, in my small crappy town in the asscrack of Kentucky, that Warsies (yes Razorback, Warsies!;0) like me, though more extreme, existed. Hell, I kind of wished at the time I dressed up. You're right about one thing Priapic, who cares what the fuck people think. I'd like to think that was a guiding principle in my life (though more often than not I find myself putting too much weight in what people think, much to my chagrin).

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 3:57 p.m. CST


    by The True Priapic

    ..You're right.Put it this way ....I didn't dress up for Sith.I guess theres a lot to be said for people totally 100% who don't give a fuck what others think.I aspire to it and am happy to admit to be a geek, too much...if you know what I mean...I don't do a wookie roar when I cum or stuff....not that I've thought about it.Back tomorrow.Have shit to fuck about with.Peace.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 3:58 p.m. CST

    You can't take the sky from me . . .

    by RogueScribner

    $10 million, huh? That's disappointing. I originally thought it might do around $16 - $20 million. SERENITY actually grossed less on Saturday than Friday. Most films usually have around a 20% - 30% bump on Saturdays. The only thing that is going to save this movie is word of mouth and even then . . . Like a lot of sci-fi films of the past, it'll probably top out around $40 million. Oh well. And for everyone taking pleasure in a movie's financial failure, you lead small lives and need to get out more. Films should be judged on their content, not how much money they make. ED WOOD is a great film and it made all of $6 million. DARK CITY is a great sci-fi mindfuck of a film and it only made $14 million. Box office is not a sound indicator of quality. At least we got our Big Damn Movie and some closure to the series. I'll always be grateful for that.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 4:10 p.m. CST

    Razorback: I was in Redmond WA

    by SG7

    Where we are neck deep in nerds. The crowd at the showing I atteneded was just awful. On the other had all showings here sold out. To the folks claiming "tanked" I'm wondering: how many screens did it open on and what was the take per screen? Anyway, I liked as I noted previously. Hopefully it will do well enough to warrant more becuase I'd like to see more stories with these characters.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 4:16 p.m. CST

    As long as the bad B/O shuts up TONAY!

    by ComputerGuy68

    Glad it did poorly, now those wankers can go away. Hey guess what Joss is NOT a God. And more important, he can't blame this one on anyone.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 4:19 p.m. CST

    Browncoats don't get to gloat over big box-office...

    by mholc68

    ...but now Serenity/Firefly reverts back to being their private Precious Little Thing that they and they alone "get." So it's win-win for them...

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Why browncoats get no respect.

    by Neo Zeed

    Because they hyped something that wasn't ready to be hyped. Buffy and Angel were on the air for many years, had sci-fi conventions, and could be respected as a fanbase even by non-fans. Even Angel's cancellation was folowed by a save Angel campaign which was totally fan created. (Even Joss and co. told them that while that was cool, it was better to save their money) The browncoats? Totally created by Joss and his marketing team. A movie based on 11 episodes of a nicely written space ship show with no unique art direction, is the sci-fi savior? It was written with skill, but that don't make it the next Matrix. It could have been seen by geeks as a nice 'lil sci-fi flick like Pitch Black. Add the "second coming" hype, now it reads manufactured hype by a creator who pimped his original fanbase like whores for what could be read as a vanity project. I like Joss but this browncoat hype ruins his credibilty and makes people not want to check Buffy/Angel even more.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 5:12 p.m. CST

    by Nairb The Movie

    Liked the movie. Enjoy the show. Whedon's best work is still Roseanne....

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 5:18 p.m. CST

    "Hey for all you idiots that were saying Serenity is going to fl

    by Bass Ackwards

    "Could you please explain to me why almost every show is sold out at every venue. I'm trying to get tickets and the only slots left open are the late shows. I may have to go see corpse bride again and wait until next week to see this so-called flop." Sorry to pour salt on the wound, but this post struck me as particularly funny.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 5:29 p.m. CST

    I thought this was supposed to open #1

    by Greased Deaf Guy

    Guess we all know who's right now. I've got nothing against the series but I thought such a small fan base wouldn't translate to huge numbers. I wouldn't be surprised to see a higher than 60% dropoff next weekend either. As far Bass Ackwards claim that it's sold out a nearly every venue, hardly. The theater averages are sold but not outstanding.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 5:42 p.m. CST

    My show is better than your show, blah, blah, blah...

    by Roj Blake

    What the FRELL is wrong with some of you people? How can you expend so much energy into hating TV programs and people who have an interest in stuff that you do not? Trekkie, Browncoat, Scaper, Whovian - if you admittedly fit into *any* of these so-called "groups" you've got a hell of lot more in common with the genre fan you claim to despise than you do with common man on the street. What is this desire some of you seem to have for the failure of "Serenity"? I don't get it. I would think that anyone who frequents this site - and even moreso those who take the time to post in talkbacks - would want quality genre to win out whether it's to your taste or not. Even though I've only seen one ep of "Firefly" (which I didn't care for), I can still sense that it's quality material. "Serenity's" possible success would be a win for everybody. I cheer for quality film & TV to make money so that the message is sent to the suits that there's a market for more quality, as opposed to the assumption that audiences are stupid and therefore "Them Duke Boys 2" is a safer bet. It's enough to make a grown man cry.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 5:47 p.m. CST

    DVD sales

    by Greased Deaf Guy

    The same fans who saw the movie will of course pick up the dvd. As far as whether the general public does, it's still hard to tell. I guess it depends on how bad it tanks next weekend and the rest of it's run. I think people do equate a film's quality with boxoffice performance. As far as the boxoffice goes, I agree that it's more front loaded than my gut after the chinese buffet.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 6:38 p.m. CST

    as a Non-Firefly person - hey, I really enjoyed that movie.

    by Russman

    I totally disagree w/Harry though.. the exposition wasn't slow or boring - streamlined and fast. I did have to nudge my friend to get some background info, but from my POV that's good cuz it shows I wasn't bored with it. Don't know if I'll check out the TV series, but this was a really entertaining and fun movie that I think most Sci-Fi fans will dig.

  • Even though I wasn't blown away by Serenity. I'd rather see it become a franchise than most other sequels they have in the works. (PS Wedding Crashers was okay, but the idea of a sequel is rediculous.)

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 6:44 p.m. CST

    So how far away are we from vampire stuff?

    by Neo Zeed

    Um... lets see Serenity is over, next comes this Wonder Woman thing, then Goners, or maybe the other way around, then we have rumored Spike telemovie, but the stars "aren't aligned just yet" according to Joss. Which is weird cause he managed to conjure a feature film with some DVD receipts of a canceled show. I'd think a tv flick for a low rated network starving for ratings wouldn't be a problem. So were do we stand, ya think? By the way, I think that his vampireverse is cooler than Wonder Woman shit could ever be. Wonder Woman sucks.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 6:53 p.m. CST

    There's always next weekend

    by Thorfin

    I just wanted a big enough box office for another movie or two... maybe a strong word of mouth will help... c'mon Serenity... you're a leaf on the box office wind...

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 6:58 p.m. CST

    My god. It's not full of stars.

    by Juggernaut125

    I saw "Serenity" last night with a few friends. Myself and one other had watched the DVD collection before, 2 others hadn't seen anything before. We all of us enjoyed the movie. And I could go on and on about why. But one that struck me, before the movie even started. One of the guys who hadn't seen the show was telling his friend in the cinema lobby that he was seeing it. "Who's in it?" his friend asked............... "I dunno." And THAT (IMO)would be the biggest detriment to the big opening weekend, that I'd like to see it receive. Nobody (who doesn't follow the show) knows anything about it. They don't know the actors. They don't know the characters. And people would rather see Jessica Alba in a bikini in a poorly reviewed movie than a well received sci-fi flick that is totally foreign to them. (Although I can't really blame them. I could watch Jessica Alba read the phone book in a bikini and be a happy camper.)

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 7:07 p.m. CST

    FLOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ten Mill !!!!

    by jojo-pimp

    10 million?? yeah...hardly anywhere near the caliber of Star Wars. I honestly dont understand why they made a movie of a tv show that lasted half a season...did they really thing all of a sudden people would have an interest? Joss should stick to what he knows....girls fighting vampires..and thats about all he was ever good at!

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 7:37 p.m. CST

    This should have gone straight to DVD...

    by ComputerGuy68

    or a Sci-Fi mini, their just isn't a big enough fan base for the show to support a feature film. The problem was that the suits believed the hype this show was getting on the net, particularly on this site. To answer Roj Blake, the reason you will see so much glee over the apparent failure of the film is because of the constant gushing over anything Whedon on this site. I will throw the blame on Herc for this; he/she puts the Whedon product on such a high pedestal, and looks down on so many other shows. It has bred a sea of contempt for anything Whedon by a lot of folks here. I used to be part of the

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 7:42 p.m. CST


    by Mr. Profit

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 7:47 p.m. CST

    He should have made a Buffy movie

    by Mr. Profit

    That would have made more money. Buffy is way more popular and better made and better acted than Firefly IMO. Stop blaming Fox for it's cancellation. The show was an acquired taste. It had it's fanbase. But the fanbase is not as huge as AICN people think it is. They should have just bought it back for the Sci-Fi channel and saved the embarassment of it tanking at the BO. How this did not beat Flightplan amazes me.

  • Cancellation don't mean dick. Firefly just wasn't cool enough to have the true fan hype. Note to Joss: Angel movie next or else!!

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 8:37 p.m. CST

    Sleeper hit

    by Subversive01057

    Give it some time. Nothing good comes out next week, Serenity is still #2 at the box office, and surely by now every one has seen (yawn) Flight Plan.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 9:22 p.m. CST

    For the Browcoats and die-hard Whedonites out there, here's

    by Triumph poops!

    Because YOU guys -- along with Whedon himself -- are now guilty of selling Universal on a bad bill of goods. Based on the DVD box set sales of the TV show, you guys claimed that IF you got a major movie version of FIREFLY, that it would open up #1 at that box office for the weekend... that it would earn back its costs easily... that the box office would clearly show that the "cult audience" surrounding the show was not "cult-sized", but actually far larger than anyone was giving SERENITY credit for. Well, guess what? It now turns out all of that was NOT true. Turns out the audience for Serenity WAS the same small number of people that watched it on TV and that's simply NOT enough to support a major film franchise, or the inherent costs of maintaining one. Bottom line: you begged and pleaded for SERENITY to get a big screen chance and you got it. You got your chance to prove yourselves, to prove that the wider "masses" would embrace FIREFLY on the big screen. But now it turns out the general public has shrugged its shoulders, the movie's flopped, and worse the box office will drop even further in week 2. As a result, it becomes obvious no sane studio would ever invest in SERENITY 2. That may be a cold hard truth to accept, but welcome to a lesson not only in the workings of Hollywood, but in Basic Business 101.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 9:29 p.m. CST

    Nothing comes out next week?!

    by TodayzSpecial

    Ummmm ... Wallace and Gromit, curse of the Were Rabbit comes out, my friend. That movie will rule. It has a similar audience and Dreamworks marketing it. It will win the Oscar for best animated movie of the year. Joss Whedon himself will probably buy a ticket to Curse of the Were-Rabbit instead.I love Serenity, but they're going to need a miracle for a sequel

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 9:31 p.m. CST

    I bet you anything a Farscape flick would have made at least twe

    by Shermdawg

    Now with the show in syndication hopefully it will get that chance. I just think because of it being in syndication, it's look, and special effects, not to mention The Peacekeeper Wars tying up any pesky dangling plotlines, it would be more of a mainstream success. Oh, and before you browncoats tear me a new one. I saw the first showing of Serenity in my neck of the woods, and loved it. I got my fingers crossed for a continuation of some sort, whether it be film or television. Hopefully the dvd sales will be good. Really the only surefire tv to film hit thats on the forecast is the next X-Files flick, thank god its supposedly a stand alone horror angle, because they royally fucked the mythology. Also thank god it was canceled so Adam Baldwin could do Firefly. Nuff said. Nuff said.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 10:20 p.m. CST

    Herc isn't done yet.

    by FluffyUnbound

    I hear that a big-screen version of Wonderfalls is in the works.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 10:26 p.m. CST

    Who the loser is here

    by Subversive01057

    ...the people who have nothing better to do than express hatred on fan boards for genre tv and movies that for whatever reason they didn't enjoy. You people are the loser here. See, people like me, we got the movie we wanted. It was a great movie, as both fans and critics agree. We are happy. Quite happy. Ecstatic. And it is still possible that there will be a sequel. You losers on the other hand have had to endure all of our discussion about how great it is, and you have had to endure the knowledge while you sit outside alone and bitter outside the movie theater with no movie to enjoy, we are all inside having a great ride. And guess what? We're not about to stop having fun seeing and talking about great movies that we love, just so losers like you won't feel too bad about your sorry situation. So n'aaaahhhh! And Plblblblblblttt!!

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 10:35 p.m. CST

    Yeah, we need a scapegoat, lets blame Herc.

    by Tall_Boy

    I dunno why, sounds good to me. As a Firefly fan, I enjoyed it alot. One of the best damn episodes they ever made. Too bad it'll be the last. Love the final scene, though, gave it hope and flying and all those things.

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 10:38 p.m. CST

    Now that this nasty business is behind us...

    by cutest_of_borg

    Let's all join hands and sing the praises of a real sci-fi drama. Ladies, gentlemen, geeks, and Herc, I give you the everlasting STAR TREK. To paraphrase the immortal Kirk, "Herc, I'm laughing at the "superior" box office numbers."

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 10:43 p.m. CST


    by Nairb The Movie

    I'm not defending a sinking ship here. I know it flopped. I admit it. I am a die hard whedonite. I have his face tatooed on heh.. anyway... "The first big screen adventure of the crew of Joss Whedon's Serenity failed to bring in the number of Browncoats and science fiction fans that its distributor Universal may have hoped, although it still earned more than $10 million its opening weekend in only 2,188 theatres, averaging more per theatre than Flightplan." SO technically on an adjusted scale it beat FLIGHTPLAN! Word..

  • Oct. 2, 2005, 10:54 p.m. CST

    Bad box office showing for Serenity equals:

    by kintar0

    No Wonder Woman movie for Joss. This is the kind of money he makes for a studio with his own ideas? They still MIGHT let him do Goners, but that's that. Back to TV for Whedon. Which is great, because I really, really didn't want to see a Whedonized, Buffized Wonder Woman. Thank you, America. AND Flightplan came out LAST week and still beat the shit out of Serenity. Hey, I don't begrudge any of you Brownshirts your Serenity movie, but I'm glad he probably won't be doing Wonder Woman. Let him keep on doing his own crap and entertaining the people who love him.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 12:04 a.m. CST

    Even if you don't like Serenity

    by AeroB

    You have to agree that it's better than anything by that far more overrated, pompous hack Quentin Tarantino.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 12:39 a.m. CST


    by jedimast3r

    SERENITY was by far the best movie I have seen this year next to Million $$$ Baby. I even think it was better than Batman Begins, which I also truly loved. I cannot say enough about Serenity - the dialogue was amazing, the dynamics of the story and the pure HEART - this movie had so, so much of it. You almost forget that the movie is a Sci-Fi flick. I was not expecting to have the history of the Reavers spilled out in front of me until it was finally revealed - and the theme behind the story totally hit me in the face, hard. This is one finely crafted pic and is probably the best thing Joss has done since "Passion" and "Body" on Buffy. It had horror, funny, wit, drama, pain and loss, everything, so neatly and powerfully wrapped up into a smooth story. I just finished FF the TV series and the love for these characters was fresh in my mind going into this movie, but I can honestly say that had I not viewed the series I would have loved this pic anyway. Thank you Joss!!!!!!!!!

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 12:40 a.m. CST

    Well now, Universal is doing an interesting spin on the SERENITY

    by Lenny Nero Makes me less sad. But not much.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 12:46 a.m. CST


    by Ribbons Nice spin indeed, but there's no way in hell they wanted or expected a $10 million opening take. Oh well.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 1:24 a.m. CST

    Re: AeroB

    by Mafu

    You wrote "Even if you don't like Serenity... You have to agree that it's better than anything by that far more overrated, pompous hack Quentin Tarantino." I disagree. I think every film Tarantino's ever written, directed, or produced is miles ahead of "Serenity" as an engaging cinematic experience. This is only my opinion, I realize, but I think QT's dialogue and characterizations blow Whedon out of the water. Quentin may be pompous, but he backs up his attitude with engaging, eminently quotable movies that were also commercially successful. Whedon's made... what... one film that, while marginally interesting as his first effort, hasn't captured the moviegoing public's imagination or made much of an impact at all. You -- AeroB -- don't like QT, that's fine. But please don't presume the moviegoing public would favor "Serenity" over any of Quentin's movies. It just sounds desperate.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 1:31 a.m. CST

    I'm out raged!

    by Greased Deaf Guy

    "The only other example of a movie springing from the ashes of a failed television series was the 1988 comedy hit, The Naked Gun, based on Police Squad!" ~Don't you dare mention that dog of a flop in the same sentence as The Naked Gun. They're trying to spin it, alright. Sure you face a different direction but you're still in the same place.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 1:42 a.m. CST

    I was gonna hate on this movie like a motherfucker but now

    by Doc_Strange

    After only 10 million in the pot, the so-called fans and Star Wars haters have done it for me. Ironic.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 2:15 a.m. CST


    by Ribbons

    I'm skeptical as to the film's legs as well, but keep in mind I think the argument now is "wait for the word of mouth" (which will probably have to be re-examined next week just like the expectations for the film's opening take). I'm pretty sure that the drop from Friday to Saturday had more to do with the small fanbase turning out on Friday and then not so much on Saturday, not super-awesomely-bad word of mouth from the general public, so I'm not sure what your implications are with that one.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 2:39 a.m. CST

    Not only has it no legs

    by JUSTICE41

    But what stumps it's hobbling on will be sheared off next week as they realize this things a dog and pull it's screens, just like they did with Catwoman. It's funny how the spinners always fail to include Advertising costs in the production totals. I say they spent at least 25 mill advertising and promoting this dogshit. So figure they have to make at least 120 million just to break even. The theaters right now are panicing over the lack of revenue. They will glaly dump this flick for Wallace and Gromit. Universal needs to stop spending money on sci-fi flicks untill it figures out whether anyone wants to see what they have planned. They just keep dumping money into fan flicks. I just hope the Brownstains will now just be humble and stop with the worshipping. Remember, one of the ten commandments is to not worship a false god or some such horseshit.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 3:23 a.m. CST

    "They're trying to spin it, alright. Sure you face a differe

    by DarthHomercles

    Someone says Universal is trying to spin the grosses for SERENITY and you get outraged at a comparison between it and THE NAKED GUN and type the quote above. Does it matter that Universal didn't make the comparison, but the author of the article did? Nah, not to you. It's an excuse to fling some more hate at a movie you know nothing about just to make yourself feel intellectually superior. Good job.

  • Serenity flopped. Big whoppdie do. Can we move on?

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:46 a.m. CST

    Wait until next week before calling it a flop

    by Razorback

    If the hardcore fan base can pull similar numbers out next week then the movie will be fine.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 6:09 a.m. CST

    to quote a fan on the firefly site:

    by dr.bulber

    quote: Folks, I can only buy so many tickets on my own! Drag your friends and get to the theatres already! Sheesh. ******* serenity has landed. embrace the thud.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 7:30 a.m. CST

    Firefly/Serenity is destined to remain a cult phenomenon

    by Serious Black

    at least for a while longer. It's still a great movie and a brilliant finale to Firefly. I'd love to see sequels, but everything's got to end sometime. Better to see Firefly end with a terrific if largely unwatched movie than to turn into what Star Trek has become. Besides, as much as I loved the movie, I would have much rather had a return of the weekly TV series. Waiting for years between sequels is just too much for me.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 7:50 a.m. CST

    This is all excessive

    by verge

    It's a movie. Just a movie. Sometimes all of us get so deep within ourselves that the things we love or hate take precedence over our manners, attributes and entire demeanor and make us different kinds of people. Serenity came out. Good. I saw it yesterday and had a wonderful time. It was everything I could have wanted. Good for me. The people that wanted to see it have probably seen it now. Hopefully, it was everything they wanted. Good for them. Some people chose not to see it, and I'm sure their weekend was fine. Good for them. Some of these people have apparently gotten the drive to campaign against this film in a sometimes extreme and hurtful way, the same kind of extreme and hurtful way that some people are using to campaign for the film. They are both using the same passion and energy against the film or for it. The two kinds of people are very similar, both have faults and both have good points. No one should judge the film based on a bad experience with a person calling themselves a browncoat. You should judge the film based on whether you see it or not. If you do not want to see it, don't. You are doing your part by not seeing it. Your point is made. It is unnecessary to try to influence other people to not see it. If you want to see it, by all means go see it a hundred times. Your point is made. It is unnecessary for you to overly hype and praise it with violent praise just so others will see it. It is, after all, just a movie. No one can know how it will do. But we have it, to love or hate. It is just a movie. If there are no more, there was at least this. If there are more, the people that did not want to see this one, do not have to see them. It will all work out fine.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 8:18 a.m. CST

    Wow this is really out of hand

    by livingat24fps

    People seem to be harping on browncoats telling people how cool firefly is, but 90% of cult and underground tv and movies are spread that way. And yes the browncoats are zealots, but I remember alot of the talkbacks from when they moved it from may to september calling it crap sight unseen. And of course the box-office and nelson rating are th only true way to see it if somethings good cause Arrested devolpement and Shaun of The Dead are both unbriddled success in those areas. My point it maybe its time the jerks rejoicing in its failure watch it again, and the people who love enjoy it and let that be enough.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 8:37 a.m. CST

    "why does Capt. Mal have a (mild) *Southern* twang when the acto

    by MaguaSynfield

    I don't know, maybe because he's an actor and that's what playing the character of Mal calls for? Condsidering what a slow box office weekend it was, coming in second to Jodie Foster ( Oscar winner, big-assed studio release) and beating the much hyped History of Violence is no disgrace. Saw Serenity Saturday night & enjoyed it very much; definately enjoyed it better than the last round of Star Wars tripe - I'd see Serenity again. The only part of the last SW saga worth reviewing was the "elimination of the Jedis" sequence. The audience I was with, a fairly full house, seemed to like Serenity as well, so maybe the second week BO might improve. All things considered, Serenity is worth your time, but Bladerunner is still the gold standard ( just for reference).

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 8:51 a.m. CST

    Too bad it floped

    by Brock Samson

    I saw it and liked it. It wasn't a perflect flick, and I've seen better this year, but it wasn't bad. Yeah, the fight scenes were pretty poor, but most of the special effects were cool enough. It ocassionally felt a little made for TV, but was better than, say, "Mr. And Mrs. Smith" and way better than "Fantastic Four". I think the numbers were low because of the title of the film and because the first trailer kinda sucked. I'm just dissapointed because it means no sequel. The fans do need to realize that this thing wasn't all that. It was a nice, fun movie. Don't try to make it out like the best film of the year. Because it wasn't.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 8:55 a.m. CST

    Universal not disappointed

    by Obredaan

    Although the BO results are weaker than most Firefly fans would like, it seems Universal expected around 10-12 million on opening week-end. I don't see them looking at this as a FLOP since the movie only cost 39$ million to make. The positive reviews could help the BO over the next 2 weeks, but it's a longshot that the movie will make back it's money domestically. With European sales and DVD sales, the flick should turn a marginal profit, but I doubt it will make enough to warrant a sequel. Sad news indeed. This is also bad news for fans of Farscape and BSG or any other tv franchises. Don't let the whining bandwagon of haters who have never seen the flick convince you otherwise, Serenity is a fucking entertaining movie and it's worth the price of admission.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 9 a.m. CST


    by wessmith1966

    Firefly was boring and mediocre television at best. I have no idea how Whedon got this movie greenlighted, but it's no surprise it's bow this weekend was underwhelming at best. Spin all you like, the film bombed. I saw it with friends; we all thought it was just ok with some good dialogue in spots. I am a fan of Whedon's work, but this was just blah, had nothing to excite the scifi fan in me. I'm sure it'll have some strong DVD sales and be popular on pay-per-view and it's pay cable run, but this just isn't anything special.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 9:08 a.m. CST

    I think it is sad

    by sabrefox

    Sure if someone has made it this far down the talkback, they

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 9:21 a.m. CST

    It's not quite thanksgiving yet...

    by obi-bear

    ...and Universal's already put out the turkey. Never saw the series...went into this with as clean a slate as I could. Sorry, Browncoats...but after sitting through almost two hours of hackneyed dialouge & groaner lines, barely rendered effects that make animatics look real, a haphazard plot lifted from the corpses of Star Trek and other '70s-reactionary SF cliches' (corporations are BAD they are greedythey don't CARE about people) right down to the requisite mano-a-mano on top of the standard hanging-above-the-abyss set... Thismovie was noisy, dumb and just plain bad. On plus...the folks responsible for "Battlefeild Earth" don't have to be embarassed to be holding the crown for worst SF turkey of the era..."Serenity"..the movie named after an adult diaper...takes thaty honor. Please Mr.'s done. Stick a fork in it and move on...

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 9:39 a.m. CST

    wolf at the door... you seem to not understand how it works

    by Razorback

    If a studio spends $65 million to make a movie, and the movie pulls in $65 million at the box office, then the studio lost money. Why? Because they share the profits with the theatres (smaller share at first, but it increases over time).

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 11:03 a.m. CST

    I wonder if this finally kills the Red Dwarf movie?

    by supertoyslast

    That was obviously never going to happen anyway. But now that a movie spun-off from a cult sci-fi show has performed only so-so at best at the box office, would investors really want to fund another movie spun-off from a cult sci-fi show? By the way, I'm a Red Dwarf fan but think that after series VII and VIII a movie would be a really bad idea. For a comparison to browncoats, fans on the RD site regularly claim that investors are fools for not jumping at the chance because it would be hugely popular and take at least $100 million worldwide. If they really think that, they are deluding themselves. But I'm also a Wallace & Gromit fan and not afraid of making predictions (and being proved wrong) so I will say $30 million opening weekend in the US at least.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 11:21 a.m. CST

    Oh, my!

    by Childe Roland

    I sincerely hope Universal doesn't decide to pull this movie from theaters before I get a chance to see it. I've read enough reviews to decide it's worth catching on the big screen for me, as I enjoyed several episodes of the short-lived and criminally overrated (by certain very vocal members of its fanbase) show. As for out-of-ass projections on what a Farscape film might have done comparatively, I'm still glad Henson didn't try to take the franchise in that direction. Instead he did a well-written and lovingly acted wrap-up mini for the show's original fans on the network where they came to love it (something Joss didn't have the otpion of doing, I'm sure, but I still think he should've tried to take the Serenity characters to the Sci Fi channel rather than the big screen). Farscape was what it was and it was wonderful as that. I don't particularly care for (and have only seen about three episodes of) SG:1 and its offspring, but I suspect that franchise might do better at the Box Office than folks think. It was born there, after all, and despite being a pretty boring film, it roped in a pretty substantial audience. And whoever said Whedon should make a Buffy movie... he kind of did already. Wrote one, at least. It sucked ass. The TV show that turkey spawned was universes better (at least for three seasons), but I don't think it was good enough, long enough to warrant a theatrical retread of the characters or concept. Joss should make some made-for-TV movies set in the Buffyverse if he wants to go back to that well. Or maybe he should take some work polishing up other people's movies again and accept the fact that, like QT, he may just be a better writer than he is a producer/director.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 11:26 a.m. CST

    Regarding 'taking glee' in Serenity's failure

    by Godardwhowhatnow

    Sure, there's a certain amount of pure schadenfreude at play, but I can understand why people are rejoicing over the failure of Serenity. It's a lot like when a crazy doomsday mormon cult keeps telling everyone that the world is going to end on the 30th of September, and they rage, rally, and proselytize about it to the point of complete absurdity, with the rest of the normal human population scratching their heads in confusion. Of course, when the 30th comes and goes without so much as a peep, you're bound to see people wagging fingers and saying 'I told you so, nerd.' Fanatical and 'in your face' proselytization may energize a nerd base, but it's simply irritating to everyone else.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 11:44 a.m. CST

    Don't forget the "loveable" Cameron Diaz is being unleashed

    by Mr. Profit

    And the movie's trailer, an extended almost "behind the scenes" trailer appeared right before the last five minutes of Desperate Housewives last night. So that may snare the adult audience away from Firefly's second weekend as I heard the film skewed more adults than teens.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 11:52 a.m. CST

    In Her Shoes with toni Collette and directed by Curtis Hanson.

    by Mr. Profit

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 12:07 p.m. CST

    $10.1 million? Not shocked that it sucked.

    by Jeditemple

    Glad it flopped. Let that be a lesson to you Whedon fans.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 12:12 p.m. CST

    so now they've back peddled to

    by Greased Deaf Guy

    saying dvd sales and international revenues will make it a profitable movie? Just admit you were wrong about it's success here. It still has to recoup costs for the dvd production, marketing costs, international distribution costs and the 20% the theaters receive.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 12:14 p.m. CST

    by Juggernaut125

    Amen to Verge. I completely agree with you, and that is why I abhor most of these talkbacks for ANY movie that comes out. This is a movie/tv website for the purpose of enlightening viewers on projects that are out now, or in production that might be of some interest to the average AICN reader. The majority of the articles are to encourage everyone to get behind a movie so that it does well and hopefully spawn further production interest in similar projects (ie. Batman Begins, where the people producing the movie love the source material enough to treat it respectfully). And ocassionally to get away from a movie that should obviously do poorly (ie. Catwoman, where the production company simply want to ride the coat tails of a genre and mess with the character, because no one involved really has any vested interest in the source material.) That is my understanding of what this site is about. But Serenity is NOT Catwoman. It should be obvious to any naysayers out there that we WANT it to do well, so that more movies of this genre will be made. Where the film is crafted with love and respect, because everyone involved (the creator, the actors, the fan(atic)s) wants the audience to have a good time (Lord of the Rings was like this as well). That was why the movie was made. That is why I loved the movie. (Incidentally, it's also why I loved "The Hulk" as well.) So, for all of you out there, who time and time again, take pleasure in the failure of a film to make box office, that is just trying to entertain an audience, I ask: Is this the kind of project you want to rail against? "White Chicks" had a better box office opening weekend than "Serenity". And, because Film Companies look at box office, we are more likely to get more movies like "White Chicks": a gimmick comedy about two black guys posing as white women and comedy ensues. No character development. No spectacle. And base humour. But because Whedon and company took a collection of lesser known actors, and made a movie based upon the TV show that was cancelled before it had a chance to run, many of you call it a failure. I don't know all that much about movies, but I do know this. I would rather studios made failures of "Serenity"'s calibur, than they made a hundred successes like "White Chicks". Also, thanks for the link Sabrefox, I appreciated Card's review.

  • Well it will make it back w/ Dvds

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 12:25 p.m. CST

    who says it flopped?

    by jonastheangel

    its number 2 at the box office, yeah sure, it didnt have the hundred million opening weekend, but then again, it didnt have 25 years of hype and tons of tv commericials and burger king tie-ins. considering its reviews , its not a flash in the pan but a movie that is going to be looked at for its longevity, not its opening weekend. and by the way, history of violence is in its second weekend and its not even hit the 10 million mark yet, so which movie is better, the movie that hits it in the first weekend, or the one that hasnt even made 10 mil in two weeks? and lets consider that blade runner, now considered a classic wasnt exactly a hit at the box office.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 12:27 p.m. CST

    Re: Jeditemple

    by sabrefox

    Did you even see it? Then how do you know it sucked? How unfortunate that the sci-fi community couldn't band together to support a good movie in their genre. I could see if this movie was "Battlefield Earth" (Hello, how can century-old jets actually still be able to fly!?!) but Serenity is leaps and bounds better than that. Its too bad some people have to rally around their favorite writer/director/whatever and play favorites instead of seeing the big picture - that supporting good releases in the genre, regardless of who is involved, acts as feedback to the film industry to produce the kinds of movies we want to see. How petty is it to avoid seeing a movie - to teach us "a lesson" - just because you don't like the fans of it. Too those of you out there who fit the bill, thanks for shooting us all in the foot. As exhilarated as I was when I left the movie, I am as dissapointed in the lack of support for a good representative of the genre.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 12:31 p.m. CST

    GMTH, Juggernaut125

    by sabrefox

    How funny that we both had the same reaction and almost exact response/arguement. :) Great minds think alike...

  • Oh, not in terms of ticket sales, obviously, but in terms of characterization and crafting a solid story with resonating emotional impact. You know, like everyone hoped REVENGE OF THE SITH would be, only to get a half-assed shadow of what it could have been. And yet, ROTS makes three hundred million dollars plus while SERENITY will be lucky to break even. There's justice for you.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 12:50 p.m. CST

    Too sad...

    by NightArrows

    Wow. That was some kind of expensive made for TV fare. People who say there hasn't been a push for this movie are delusional. All I have seen for the last 4 months is Serenity trailers and write-ups on it (local or otherwise). The film was pants, the series was cancelled for a reason, and the Browncoats are probably brown because they shit themselves after they realized they paid good money to see this thing when it should have been put on the WB for free right after a re-run of Moesha. Hell, call me a Browntrouser cause I did the same thing. Browncoats indeed. Fucking Gorilla Poop Shoot Shirts is more like it.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 12:52 p.m. CST

    Backlash - rooting against

    by Bass Ackwards

    Its simply the result of turning opinions into agendas. A bit of the same thing happened with Batman Begins, though inversed, months before the film was released a few posters made it their mission to try and convince everyone else here that the film was a terrible failure. When you have an opinion, people can simply agree or disagree with you, or even remain ambivalent when its the sugject of something they are unfamiliar with. But when you make that opinion an agenda, your basically asking for a certain amount of rooting for and against, the way Herc and a lot of posters did this with Serenity created the very distinct sense of against, and now you have talkbacks like this as a result.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 12:59 p.m. CST

    Ah the justification of the losers

    by modlight

    I like that all the people who a week ago were saying that this thing was going to be huge and a blockbuster are now saying it will be like Blade Runner and a classic that will grow over time in the hearts of sci-fi fans and in the DVD market. perhaps, but as far as the guys on the books are concerned it's a bit of a failure. Now, due to the mostly positive reviews I will go see it with an open mind. But I will say this much. I've seen space ships flying around and remote space outposts in many movies before. Blade Runner was like nothing anyone had seen before and I think that is what helped it acheive it's status.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 12:59 p.m. CST

    This reminds of me of a few months ago

    by DarthHomercles

    When there was a vocal group here on AICN dancing up a storm proclaiming that BATMAN BEGINS was a flop after it opened. Many people told them that it was a decent weekend take and that the film would have legs because of good word of mouth. BATMAN BEGINS ended up grossing over $200 million domestic, over $350 million worldwide. I'm not saying SERENITY will do anything close to those numbers, but rather than predicting gloom and doom after the first day, why not have a little faith? You might be surprised.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 1 p.m. CST

    When I said a Farscape flick would gross 20mil...

    by Shermdawg

    I meant it had more crossover appeal to get that. Think about it, that franchise has waaaaay more marketability than Serenity did (Which I loved) From toys to games, etc. Yes, the show doesn't have a audience comparable to Star Trek, but, I think that its look would bring in families looking to fill the void left by Star Wars, and that is the closest thing out there to it, and better written I might add. I'm telling you there is a good chance of a flick happening, if syndication works out, and in about five years or so we can have the "Scapers" take over the Browncoat role on this site. *crosses fingers*

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 1:07 p.m. CST

    Batman Begins opening weekend was $50 million

    by Bass Ackwards

    taking in more than the next 3 films combined for that weekend, and it opened on a Wednesday, and its total 5 day gross for that period was $75 million. But yea, this is like that.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 1:19 p.m. CST

    I like Farscape

    by Bass Ackwards

    but a Farscape movie will never happen, and if it did it would be a bigger flop than Serenity.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 1:30 p.m. CST

    Bass Ackwards

    by DarthHomercles

    I like how you totally missed my point. I didn't say SERENITY was going to do the business of BATMAN BEGINS. I said people here on this site were knocking the movie for no reason and harping on it's opening gross saying that it was a flop when in fact good word of mouth propelled into one of the biggest hits of the year. The film didn't open as huge as SPIDER-MAN or ROTS or SHREK but it had legs because people thought it was a good film and they were telling their friends. That was my point. Word of mouth could make SERENITY profitable.

  • Who fucking cares? It was a good movie that stands above most theatrical scifi , it was well-reviewed, and a miracle that it got made. This entire thread, like most of the others, has been bitching about the fans. People who said it was going to make huge box office were in the definite minority. I'm glad you all feel superior to these few. It would be great to see people actually DISCUSSING THE MOVIE, rather than simply attacking it or defending it. I wouldn't have any problem with someone having legitimate gripes about the movie - not about whether it should exist, whether it sucks or not, or what the fans are like, but actual discussions about the film and what happens in it. You don't have to be a fan to have an intelligent conversation about a film. But the rabidness on both sides is just ridiculous. I'm not surprised they shut down talkback registration.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 1:46 p.m. CST

    No Darth, I got your point

    by Bass Ackwards

    I was giving the numbers to illustrate why it was ridiculous. It doesn't matter if there were people who SAID BB was a flop its opening weekend, because it obviously wasn't. Serenity isn't a flop because people here are trumping it up as one, it IS one, so there's simply no comparison. And though it doesn't make it a flop, even with "legs," BBs box office is nowhere near RotS, Shrek, or Spider-man, so anyone who compared BBs box office unfavorably to those films, well, they were right.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 1:51 p.m. CST

    Re: Favorite moment *SPOILERS*

    by sabrefox

    That illicted a 'take THAT' chuckle from me. I have to say the Wash's death really shocked the hell out of me. I shouted, "Dude!" and was in disbelief for several minutes...was he really hurt as bad as it looked....yup, he in the world is Joss going to bring him, maybe he isn't coming back...did Joss really just kill him?! My mouth was open in shock until Jane was talking to Zoe about revenge.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 2:06 p.m. CST

    Favorite Moment SPOILERS

    by Harlow

    My favorite part was when Kaylee notices Wash is gone and asks where he's at. Zoe just says, "He ain't coming." It just really drove Wash's death home. Because before that moment, in the back of my mind, I though that Wash couldn't possibly be dead. He'll fire the thrusters at any moment and fry the Reavers or something. But when Zoe tells Kaylee that you believe it. Wash ain't coming. Damn.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 2:08 p.m. CST

    badass Simon

    by oisin5199

    One of the things that bugged me, even though I can see why they did it, was the retcon with Simon. On the show, he says that he hired people to rescue River. In the movie, we see Simon, who (we've seen on the show) is inexperienced at this kind of thing, infiltrate one of the most top secret Alliance facilities as a military officer, he knows that they turned her into a killing machine, and he even knows a safeword to turn her off. Whaaah? If we follow continuity, are we supposed to believe that he knew this the entire time? This knowledge would have come in handy quite a few times when River was going batshit. The other question I've had, that no one's been to explain satisfactorily, is why does River say "Miranda" when she gets the subliminal message in the bar? If the Operative was trying to trigger her aggressive tendencies, why would this be linked to a memory that she just happened to psychically pick up from some officials sometime? Wash's death? that's a whole other post. No more Book? Will we never see his story? Why he says what he said in "Objects in Space"? AAARRRGHH! Loved the movie, by the way.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Some of the stuff I liked. **Spoilers**

    by Juggernaut125

    "Can we talk about how the 90 pound girl took out Jayne? Because that never gets old." "He killed me, Mal. He killed me with a sword... How weird is that?" And I loved the scope of the Alliance / Reavers battle in the outer atmosphere. My friend loved the movie until the big death scenes. He hates it now, because apparently heros or likeable characters aren't supposed to die in movies. And when they do, suddenly the movie sucks. (Shrug, oh well)But thinking about it yesterday, I realized that the deaths were necessary to the story in order to portray exactly how bad the crew's predicament was. Anyone of these people could die, and if the audience doesn't know this yet, then they won't be as engaged in the fight. Good work, Joss. Great writing.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 2:18 p.m. CST

    Galaxy Quest was a Christmas-time family movie.

    by Lenny Nero

    Serenity is not. No, I'm not hating. Saw Serenity three times over the weekend, loved it more each time. Difference is, I accept defeat.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 2:18 p.m. CST

    Good points oisin

    by Juggernaut125

    I remember that kinda bugged me too. But, like yourself, I see why they did it. If some people we've never met before, and probably wouldn't ever see again, pulled off the rescue it would seem weird. And then we wouldn't get the great "Love" speech be they operative.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 2:19 p.m. CST

    How much did I miss?

    by sabrefox

    Life happened and my wife and I got to the theater late. I came in when The Operative was monologuing and there was some dude impaling himself on his sword. I've seen Firefly so I had an idea what was going on, enough to fill my wife in. I hoped we didn't miss too much, but now I'm wondering.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 2:29 p.m. CST

    oisin5199's right

    by IAmLegolas

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 2:30 p.m. CST


    by Obredaan

    You missed a nice little intro that sets up the verse and shows an example of terraforming. This was all introduced when we see River as a child in school learning about the verse and the reavers. They also showed how Simon rescues River from the Alliance...not alot of exposition but a very cool start to the movie.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 2:32 p.m. CST


    by Man of Stool

    Thanks in advance.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 2:37 p.m. CST

    Thanks for filling me in

    by sabrefox

    Now I feel like I've seen the whole movie. Great recall and description of the scenes. Thanks.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 2:47 p.m. CST

    greatn, you`re right . Again. Damn.

    by Man of Stool

    I don`t really wanna wait `til November, and the German dubs are unwatchable, man. Believe you me. Serenity will still get my 8 Euro, because I`m gonna take some friends to see it. But still: Damn.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 2:53 p.m. CST

    Quote from Joss

    by oisin5199

    in his blog about the opening: "And remember, amidst all the urgency to make this an event, all the work and the worry, to take two hours and just enjoy yourself. That is, after all, what all this fighting

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 2:55 p.m. CST

    So it has come to this...

    by DarthBen

    I liked the series, which I only saw because of the film coming out. I adored the film. I am bummed that it didn't open huge. But have we gotten to the point where we can't appreciate a geek film unless it franchises? The original Matrix could've been a flop. Would that have made it any less worthy of priase? All this box office bitching is because most fans want a sequel, a franchise. I'm sure Universal did too. But maybe we should just be pleased with that the film got made, as it was a great film. Maybe there will be a sequel after the DVD sales come in, ala Hellboy or Transporter. If so, I'll be there. If not, hey, we got a Firefly finale better than 99% of series finales out there. Really, where could you take this crew after this film? Everybody's in a good place (or dead), most of the relationships are resolved. So either way, the Browncoats really did win. You all should be proud of yourselves. You don't need a franchise to come out of this film for it to be a success story.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 2:55 p.m. CST

    I didn't know Seserenity had 4 movies released before it, ea

    by Billyeveryteen

    You're an asshat, Bass. Anyway, I too was deeply hurt by Wash's death, Book's too. How come all the men of peace had to die? I think Joss wanted to hurt us.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 3:01 p.m. CST

    What are you talking about Billy?

    by Bass Ackwards

    I assume you're responding to me in some way, just no clue in exactly what way.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 3:18 p.m. CST

    Also, on the FIREFLY DVD commentary tracks, Whedon alludes to In

    by Lenny Nero

    He would not reveal what it is, but he said there is something dark in her past that has caused her to join SERENITY, a crap ship, in the first place.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 3:22 p.m. CST

    I can't even spell Serenity...

    by Billyeveryteen

    Lets see, Batman is a cultural icon, with 4 previous movies, multiple TV products, and 50 years of comics. Firefly? Not so much. A bad comparison. Galaxy Quest? Better.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 3:30 p.m. CST

    Inara's and Book's secret

    by oisin5199

    Joss has said that Inara's secret is the one plot point he's most looking forward to exploring in the future. So that could be in a sequel. Zoe will absolutely NEVER hook up with Mal. They do not and cannot ever have that kind of relationship. "War Stories" proved that. If anything, I can see her character beginning to crack under pressure and start to lose it after Wash's death. But that's tricky, because I wouldn't her to come off as a stereotypical 'weak female.' And as a soldier, she'd be used to losing people. But maybe somehow, we start to see cracks in the armor. Ok, here's a crazy idea. What if the Operative from this film comes back to help Mal and he has some info on the Alliance or Blue Sun, and it's revealed that his teacher was ...wait for it... Book! Maybe we can get some good flashback stuff with the Shep. Or not, since Ron Glass isn't getting any younger. I know. Maybe insert some Barney Miller footage and manipulate with CG - like an operative with a big fro? Or film those sequences now before he gets any older.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 3:32 p.m. CST

    Kai - whatever - if you hadn't noticed, we've moved on f

    by oisin5199

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Me for one

    by sabrefox

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 3:41 p.m. CST


    by sabrefox

    What is so irrelevant about discussing the movie vs. speculation about dollars and cents?

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 3:42 p.m. CST

    and what's up with insulting me?

    by sabrefox

    All I did is answer your frelling question.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 3:57 p.m. CST

    the discussion was starting to move in a more positive direction

    by oisin5199

    and then it came crashing back to idiocy and fan-baiting. If you look back, Kai, there were at least 6 people who were interested in discussing the movie and not pointless arguments about box-office or attacks on the fans, which has been talked to death on every single Serenity thread. Only people interested in continuing to bash the movie and its fans are interested in continuing such discussions. That's what I meant by "we."

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 3:58 p.m. CST

    Jesus, Kai

    by Ribbons

    "You and who?" "Me." That doesn't seem like an unreasonable response.

  • Guess you've got some payback coming, chum. Quit being so belligerent.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 3:59 p.m. CST

    Thanks for the backup, Ribbons

    by sabrefox

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:01 p.m. CST

    Kai, you sound angry

    by Billyeveryteen

    Need a hug?

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:05 p.m. CST

    Moving on....

    by sabrefox

    It's too bad that Inara didn't have a bigger role in the moive. Understandably there is only so much ground you can cover with so many characters and not get bogged down. I think letting her be a focal point of any forthcoming stories would be nice. I'm intrigued with her "dark secret" and Monica Baccarin is a very beautiful woman. I'd love to see more of her.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:11 p.m. CST

    You guys wanna talk about the movie

    by Bass Ackwards

    then talk about it, but get over yourselves, you don't get to dictate the talkback, its a big site with a lot of people and a lot of discussions. I could give a shit what you guys are talking about, but I'm not gonna jump into it to tell you that me not caring means you need to shut up.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:12 p.m. CST

    and Billy

    by Bass Ackwards

    go get yourself a clue.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:14 p.m. CST

    What's wrong with you people?

    by Harlow

    Um...just a question.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:15 p.m. CST

    we're not trying to dictate the talkback

    by oisin5199

    You people have at least three other threads to spew your hate and Serenity bashing. That agenda has dictated the talkbacks for quite some time now. I'm frankly sick of it and I'm sure many others are too. Can't we have at least one thread where we actually talk about the movie?

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:16 p.m. CST

    If they don't make anymore movies

    by Juggernaut125

    I will still be quite happy. I loved this and thought it made a great closing to the series that I also enjoyed. When Mal was talking to Book and says "Someday you're going to have to tell me more about yourself." (to paraphrase) and Book responds that he won't, I enjoyed that. Sometimes a mystery unsolved forever can be a huge thrill.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Um, no

    by Bass Ackwards

    sorry, you're free to talk about the movie in any of the Serenity talkbacks you want of course, but unfortunately everyone else is free to talk about what they want in the talkbacks as well, so no, you don't get a talkback that's going to be only about what you want it to be about. There are plenty of places you can go that'll make sure the discussion is exactly about the things you want it to be about, AICN is never gonna be one of those places.

  • I was just hoping to move things in a more positive direction. Thanks for proving me wrong.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:30 p.m. CST

    Kai, I understand your point, but does it have to be so venemous

    by Lenny Nero

    The talkback actually was going in a positive route. We get your point now. Please go somewhere else. I love this movie, saw it three times, not a Browncoat, and would like to discuss it. I was simply bringing up something Universal said in response to the low b.o. We are done with you. And Ass Backwards as well, we get it. Go read a book.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:30 p.m. CST

    Kai, I understand your point, but does it have to be so venemous

    by Lenny Nero

    The talkback actually was going in a positive route. We get your point now. Please go somewhere else. I love this movie, saw it three times, not a Browncoat, and would like to discuss it. I was simply bringing up something Universal said in response to the low b.o. We are done with you. And Ass Backwards as well, we get it. Go read a book.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:31 p.m. CST

    Yes, I know life is tough

    by Bass Ackwards

    especially when you live with the world view that people being allowed to post about stuff you don't like is "uncivilized," but I'm sure somehow you'll manage to find a way to live. Oh, and jumping on a guy who was replying to someone about the film's box office by calling his discussion idiocy, really great attempt at moving in that positive direction.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:32 p.m. CST


    by Harlow

    Way to let them have it, Bass! Throw your little fanboy two cents in. Try to impede any enjoyment anyone is having discussing the movie by prattling off inane ramblings about what AICN "is". Make sure you let all these people know how much you hate everything (except Domino's pizza, McDonalds, and your mom's basement...I'm guessing). Continue being the negative, tiresome, little ball of hate you are.You're my hero.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:33 p.m. CST

    I'm sorry Bass..

    by Billyeveryteen

    Did Joss rape your childhood too?

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:44 p.m. CST

    Two by two, hands of blue...

    by Billyeveryteen

    Where were these guys? Anyone know?

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:46 p.m. CST

    ok, to practice what I preach - I am a leaf on the wind, watch m

    by oisin5199

    oh yeah, SPOILERS!!! I knew it was coming, but damn, did it have to be then? I was shocked at first, thinking what!? I was pained when they had to Reaver-up Serenity, knowing how much it pained Mal and Zoe (she called it an 'abomination' and when she says strong words like that, you know she's pissed). My wife said they couldn't have done worse if they had cut open Kaylee and paraded her around. I winced when Serenity lost her landing gear and skidded to a stop and held onto Wash's smooth grace under pressure, and then aarrgh! I really don't get it when people complain that the other characters didn't seem to care. Maybe they just don't watch for subtle acting. No one was hysterically crying, or screaming "Nooooooo" but you could see it in every one of their faces how much it hurt, but you had to go on because it was a war. Similar to Xander's reaction at Anya's death in the final battle on Buffy. Which other people had similar problems with too. Going back and reading the comic again, I can see the foreshadowing where Wash tells Mal he could have taken a high paying job anywhere but he risked his life to be next to the woman he loves. Of course, I found it interesting that Joss killed off the one guy who actually already has a movie career. I also thought there was an untold story in which Wash was the one that seemed to know the most about Mr. Universe. Maybe we'll get some Wash flashbacks in the next one, perhaps even with moustache?

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:46 p.m. CST

    I haven't thrown any hate, insults, tried to impede your dis

    by Bass Ackwards

    None of that, of course the same can't be said about you. I've said nothing more complicated then if you don't want to talk about something, then obviously its not for you, so ignore it and don't talk about it. If Kai's post didn't interest you, then wouldn't it have been easier to let it sit as the reply to someone else that it was? Instead the posters decided to derail their own discussion by trying to tell him, after his post, to stop discussing it, because they were talking about something else. I'm sorry you're ability to enjoy something is so frail that its destroyed by something as simple as a person posting on a different subject, but you're gonna waste a lot of time if you need to run around trying to get everyone else to abide by that frailty.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Kaylee was a sweetheart

    by Juggernaut125

    From the first episode to the last, she's the heart of Serenity. And as such, she was the one I most feared would be next on the storyline chopping block in the movie. But I agree, greatn. Since River and Mal were the central characters, everyone else was less represented. For that reason, a sequel would be terrific. For the audience to get to know Jane and Zoe, Simon and Kaylee better.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:49 p.m. CST

    I loved the movie but . . .

    by RogueScribner

    It only drove home the fact that the crew of Serenity worked better on TV. Joss is a genius at weaving detailed character arcs that play out over time and you can't really do that in a movie. Or if you do, it's at the expense of all of the other characters in the movie. FIREFLY had a strong start that was cut short. I can only imagine where we'd be right now, in the beginning of season 4. The big reveal of River probably wouldn't have happened until the end of season 1. Inara would have left for sure, possibly Book too. Season 2 would have introduced the Operative as a sort of season Big Bad hunting River. The crew would have gone out even farther onto the fringes of space to stay off the Alliance radar. Midseason may have introduced the Miranda concept, leaving the end of the season to play out much like the movie did. I have no clue where a season 3 or 4 would lead. But it's not even about the overt plot lines we missed out on. It's the characters. Mal's journey wrapped up pretty quickly in the movie, but it's what the entire series was about. Taking this disillusioned man and getting him to a point where he believes again. Being there as the scrappy crew try to carve out a niche for themselves and lead happy and productive lives admidst all the turmoil in post-war Alliance control. Reconstruction took years in real life and I'm sure it would have taken years on the show. My biggest disappointment is in the fact that we'll never get to see any of that play out. I'm grateful for what we have, and at least now with the movie there's some closure to the universe, but oh what might have been. I'm not ready to give up on these characters yet. Please, sir! I want more!

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:50 p.m. CST

    Hands of Blue

    by Harlow

    They explain them in the Serenity comic. Basically they are Alliance cyborgs who are hunting down River. They get fried by Mal and Co. and then you see the Alliance contacting the Operative. The comics were OK...and just. Just a lot of getting the series to the jumping off point of the movie. Not necessary and very skip-able if you ask me.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:50 p.m. CST

    blue hands

    by oisin5199

    Yeah, I was trying to understand how the blue hands dudes died in the comics. Mal makes a mention of burning off a tick and then stepping on it. We see Serenity glow up and fly away and the next panel the guys are dead. Huh? And were they tied to Blue Sun? What was Blue Sun anyway, and where can I get my t-shirt? And why did they kill anyone who came into contact with River? If they were hired by the Alliance as well, how come their orders were so different than the Operative's? Speaking of which, what does anyone think of my idea that Book was his teacher? Not that that's actually true in the story, but what if it was? Too much of a stretch?

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:55 p.m. CST

    the comics

    by oisin5199

    For anyone unfamiliar, it was a three-part miniseries that was entertaining but not spectacular. Pretty much read like an episode. {SPOILERS - it involves the return of the Alliance undercover guy who Mal shot in the pilot somewhat implausibly working with the blue hands guys to get Mal and Serenity. He had a cybernetic thing on his eye and he was REALLY pissed at Mal.) But where did you get that the blue hands guys were cyborgs?

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 4:58 p.m. CST

    oh yeah, and Book in the comics [comics SPOILERS]

    by oisin5199

    Book leaves the ship because he's started to become more embroiled in their schemes and more agressive (he hits Mal). Perhaps the subtext is that he's starting to revert back to his old ways? Though in the story, I didn't buy that Book was mad enough to hit Mal. Sure Mal was being a dick to him, but that's not entirely unusual.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 5 p.m. CST

    Bass Ackwards

    by Ribbons

    It's wonderful that you have a philosophy and all, but it seems to me that the only people you're badgering are pro-'Serenity' TalkBackers. I agree with you in terms of the argument you're having with oisin (even though I like oisin), but how about all the people on this TalkBack who say that people better shut the fuck up about "Firefly" now, "maybe this will teach you a lesson," etc.? Sure, they're not TELLING anybody what to do in the strictest sense, but it's the same megalomania that prompted you to tell oisin to "get over [himself]." The fact is, you're antagonizing a specific group of people, and that probably goes ways to explain the hostility they're displaying towards you. You can list B.O. numbers all you want; technically-speaking, you can do anything as long as TPTB don't see fit to ban your ass, and I don't even think you were being a dick about it, but this whole "you can't stop the signal" nonsense works better if it's not selective to the people you care less for.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 5 p.m. CST

    Thanks for the info

    by Billyeveryteen

    Weren't they scarier in the show? I mean that blue rod killed everybody in the room, they were fine. Is it the gloves?

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 5:03 p.m. CST

    So - for those who've read it - is the comic...

    by Childe Roland

    ...required for full enjoyment of the movie or is having seen the series (on DVD in the right order) enough? If Serenity is still in theaters in two weeks, I was planning to check it out, but I don't want to feel like I'm missing big important chunks of story in these characters' lives.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 5:07 p.m. CST

    yeah I see the point

    by oisin5199

    I guess I'm so used to the terrible etiquette here where everyone tells everyone else to shut the fuck up, that I figured I wanted the Hellmouth working for me. I'm amazed when I look at The Straight Dope, a site my wife belongs to, where they have serious discussions on every topic imaginable and people are incredibly polite even when they're ripping each other new ones in their arguments. In the end I was just expressing frustration at the endless bashing and pointless box office arguments.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 5:08 p.m. CST

    In no way is the comic essential for the movie

    by oisin5199

    it just adds an extra color or two. Maybe not a color as much as a shade. The DVDs add colors. See the movie. If you're curious, watch the show later to fill in the blanks.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 5:10 p.m. CST

    oops, you said you saw the series

    by oisin5199

    the comics just show us how the Operative gets hired, why Book is off the ship and how Inara actually leaves. I've been here way too much. Gotta go.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 5:11 p.m. CST

    the comics aren't required to enjoy the movie

    by RogueScribner

    But they do bridge the gap between the series and the movie some. Basically all you really learn in the comics that you may not have known in the movie is why/how Inara and Book left the ship. And that people were still after River. If you've seen the series, you know all you need to know to fully enjoy the movie.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 5:27 p.m. CST

    all you Serenity Hatas...

    by omarthesnake

    ... just move on. we don't care what you think. really, we don't. Your attempts to express glee at its perceived failure at the box office are both regrettable (because it shows how petty and pathetic you are) and wrongheaded. Ten million isn't a bomb for opening weekend in late September, when the movie was so cheap in the first place. It beat Jessica Alba in a bikini, far more heavily promoted, by several mill. Good work, Joss and crew. You made a very entertaining movie. I hope you do well enough to get some sequels, but if not, it was a fun ride.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 6:04 p.m. CST

    wolf at the door... are you incapable of arguing the point?

    by Razorback

    I was talking simple numbers based on cost and box office take. Then you run off about the possibility of box office take in the world, and actual cost. I simply said, if A studio spends $65 million, and the box office take is $65 million, then it has lost money. Now, your contention that the movie cost $39 million is ridiculous. $39 million (strangely enough, dropped from reported $45 million after the Friday box office numbers came in) was production cost, not marketing cost. Even small movies spend between $15-30 million on marketing costs. So, pull your head out of your ass, you don't know what you are talking about.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 6:06 p.m. CST

    I am no Serenity hater, omarthesnake

    by Razorback

    But what I find interesting is how you Browncoats trash Lucas, and the Star Wars prequels, even in this talkback area, and yet when people come in to trash your movie for either plot, characters, writing, or box office take you cannot handle it the way your side dishes it out at a director and movies that are loved across the world (and supported by the fanbase).

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 6:30 p.m. CST

    who trashed Star Wars?

    by DarthHomercles

    I must have missed that post. Isn't there room to like both?

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 6:48 p.m. CST

    He may have been referring to me

    by sabrefox

    though I tried to be clear that I enjoyed the prequels, but for different reasons than I liked Serenity. That's as far as I go, lest I start getting tomatoes thrown at me....

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 6:57 p.m. CST

    Re: Trashing Serenity's plot, characters, writing....

    by sabrefox

    I see very few (if any) of that going on here. Either the 'enemies' of the movie are just saying "Serenity and Whedon suck balls", or laughing and pointing fingers at the less than admirable box office showing. I'd love to debate someone if they had a problem with any of the other items mentioned. Unfortunetely, I'm going to catch up on some TiVo watching. But I'll check back later.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 7:02 p.m. CST

    I liked those movies the first time I saw them

    by gamesix

    when they were the Fifth Element. And Star Wars.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 7:42 p.m. CST


    by GiftedInThePants

    :) Yes. The sound of Whedonites providing damage control. :D Damn, aint nothing like the smell of fanboy whining in the morning. Star Wars is better anyway, and I don't like Star Wars. To say a spin off of a cancelled show is better than a franchise with 30 years of diehard fanfare shows you have an agenda and should get the cock of that hack Whedon out of your mouth. This movie flopped worse than John Kerry :D:D:D:D:D

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 7:45 p.m. CST

    BTW this low BO happens

    by GiftedInThePants

    when you have a shiteating fanbase. All the morons that claim you lack intelligence because you don't "get" the show suck ass. I get humor, and Whedon's sucks ass. FLOP. I guess all the fuckfaces that said Serenity's Box Office would own the haters are now eating a fat helping of crow. That's what happens when you're a fucking snob that throws your "phenomenon" in others faces, saying your show is a million times better than everyone elses and try to convert people to watch it. FLOP!!!

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 7:46 p.m. CST

    Watch my posts get deleted :D

    by GiftedInThePants

    How dare someone not worship the uberhack Whedon!!!!

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 8:04 p.m. CST

    I have 2 words as a REALITY CHECK for those trying to spin the S

    by Commando Cody

    Comparison of 2 late September openings. Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow: Budget = $40 million, opening weekend = $15.6 million. SERENITY, budget = $40 million, opening weekend = $10 million. Yes, that's right. SKY CAPTAIN, that so-called "bomb" as everyone in the world labeled it, actually did far BETTER than Serenity. So since I'm not holding my breath waiting on a SKY CAPTAIN sequel (which I actually would have liked to see), I'd suggest you Whedonites likewise start to breath regularly as well. 'Cause it's a good bet a sequel ain't coming now.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 8:25 p.m. CST

    Feel free to continue....

    by sabrefox

    Oh, Kai....I'm glad you're back. I wanted to ask you....are you the Last of the Brunnen-G?! Why don't you sing us that lovely know the one from that awesome show you're from? Anyway, I continue to see more drivel about how the movie sucks with no details, just more name-calling. Feel free to have an opinion, but at least back it up with something other than poor showing at the box office = worst movie in the world. I

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 9:02 p.m. CST

    quick rundown of comments

    by thevisitor

    Juggernaut125: No one argues that "White Chicks" sucked. But that film didn't have some rabid fan base that tried to convince everyone online to go see its film. So to expect people here to go after "White Chicks" the way they have gone after "Serenity" is unrealistic. On sites like these certain movies amtter more; particular genre flicks. What else did you expect?-------wolf at the door: when Joss states that Universal tells him that $80 million is the point in which they would likely consider a sequel he and Universal mean $80 million at the box office (most films need to make back at least twice the budget before they show a profit). The DVD sales won't be a determining factor in getting a sequel. In fact if the film needs DVD sales to get it to the point that it breaks even and show a glimmer of profit then you can pretty much put the nail into the coffin. The movie needs to make its money in the American and international box office. --------- jonastheangel: The History of Violence is essentially a glorified arthouse flick that's getting a slow release (by that I mean its getting more and more screens added each weekend intentionally because the plan was to build it slowly through word of mouth). Serenity though is a major motion picture released on over 2000 screens. Its expected to hit the trail running, not start off slow and pick up steam through word of mouth ------SpyGuy: there have been other terrific films that have come out this year and in previous years that made less money than films that seemed less deserving. Is this anything new? ------Bass Acwards: I agree with you. Despite Farscape's quality its even less accessible than Firefly is for mainstream audiences.--------greatn: your post on the opening description of the movie actually makes me want to go out and see it now. And we need more posts like that. Oh, and its spelled "Chiwetel Ejiofor" and yes he's a great actor; one that I've been following since seeing him first in "Dirty Pretty Things". So far he always come across different each time I see him on screen which is the mark of a terrific performer. He got much praise for "Four Brothers" and is getting even more raves for playing a transvestite in "Kinky Boots". From all reports each role is entire different from another and from his character the Operative in "Serenity".------- oisin5199: your theories on Book's origins are intriguing ones that others seem to share as well. --------- sabrefox: Monica Baccarin is a stunning beauty. I hope she gets more work soon. If she was an establised star I would say she would be perfect for Wonder Woman. But not sure ifstudios would go for such an unproven unknown.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 9:41 p.m. CST

    Don't be ridiculous, Kai

    by Ribbons

    I didn't realize that the question you posed was a rhetorical one and that the conversation you were having with oisin1599 was intimate. I'm sure most people didn't figger that. Not to mention, hey, what exactly do you call YOUR post to wolf at the door? Was he talking to you, originally? I don't really feel like going up through this nightmare of a TalkBack to find out if he was even talking to anyone, but the fact remains, he didn't ask for the conversation that you "imposed upon" him. A post is a post is a post. One is no more private than the next, and don't be surprised if your rhetorical question is misconstrued as a public address. Sort of as an aside, how is the answer any less relevant if it comes out of somebody else's mouth? ******** P.S. and, keep in mind I agree with Bass, but perish the thought that people discuss their "precious" 'Serenity' on a 'Serenity' TalkBack. Of course, they're not exactly operating under the friendliest of environments. The biases on these TalkBacks seeps through every last posts. "Browncoats are so fucking obnoxious," someone said. Oh yeah, but the assholes citing box office tallies and dancing merrily around effigies of Joss Whedon aren't? Give me a break. Everybody needs a John G, I guess.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 9:44 p.m. CST

    Speaking of 'Galaxy Quest...'

    by Ribbons

    Have to agree with hottoq. The deadly blades section of the final battle was pretty cliched, and the arbitrariness of the placement sort of made it seem like that "obstacle course" in whatever the ship from 'Galaxy Quest' was called.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 9:48 p.m. CST

    I'm still here for you, poor downtrodden Whedonites.

    by cutest_of_borg

    There is always room for more at the altar of TREK. Join me, won't you?

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 9:52 p.m. CST

    cutest of borg

    by Ribbons

    Depends. Will this plzce be of the original "Star Trek" variety? Or will it be of the "Voyager" variety?

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 9:58 p.m. CST


    by cutest_of_borg

    Classic all the way, friend.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 10:01 p.m. CST

    Key difference between Serenity and Sky Captain...

    by FelatioHornblowr that Serenity is actually a good movie. Sky Captain was okay, but nowhere near in Serenity's league. And remember how AICN went all kookoo-for-Cocoa-Puffs over Sky Captain? Whatever. I loved Serenity. Possibly the best movie this year, although it's low budget does show a little at the end. A sequel would be nice, but it's always better to go out on top and leave 'em wanting more than to continue until the product becomes stale and irrelevant.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 10:09 p.m. CST


    by Billyeveryteen

    I think that was the name of Tim Allen&#39;s ship. <insert grunting noise here>

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 10:10 p.m. CST


    by fanboy71

    I&#39;m thinkin&#39; you weren&#39;t burdened with an over abundance of schoolin. Did you even bother to watch the movie? If you did watch it, and didn&#39;t like it, fine. Say so even, but don&#39;t resort to fifth grade insults. Grow up. A lot of people on here like the film and want to see these characters go on. Have some respect for others and for yourself.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 10:13 p.m. CST

    Sky Captain was what it seemed like: A Failed Experiment

    by chickychow

    Hope that Kerry Conran doesn&#39;t go off and direct any more movies...

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 10:51 p.m. CST

    "Serenity" is a shit title.

    by Darth Philbin

    It has no balls whatsoever and sounds like an underage stripper. How in in the fuck are you supposed to draw in an audience when the name of the movie makes it seem as though you might be seeing a sci-fi version of "Snow Falling On Cedars"? "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" has fat testicles compared to the candy-ass title that Whedon must of came up with while watching 80&#39;s porno. Call the fucking thing "Firefly: the Serenity Saga" or "Space Banditos" or even call the fucking thing "BrownCoat: The Motion Picture". No wonder why this tanked from the start. Next time Joss, let my 12-year-old name the fucking movie. ...well he would probably name it "Halo"...but at least then people would show up...

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 10:59 p.m. CST

    I go away for a bit and the box office shit is back

    by oisin5199

    You know, if Serenity didn&#39;t make another penny (which it will, believe me), I couldn&#39;t care less, because we got our Big Damn Movie. Kai, I&#39;m sorry you were so offended by my humble request to actually discuss the movie, and that you still feel the need to explain yourself. We get it. We really do. On other topics, as much as I grew up on Trek and have seen almost every hour of it produced, enjoying quite a lot of it, in half a season Firefly trumped it because they had a ship with a latrine. Sounds silly, but it felt like it was in our world, with its politics and globalized culture, and all its weaknesses, not some impossibly gleaming Paramount set with ridgy-head aliens. Thanks to the character of Crichton, even out there, bat-shit insane Farscape felt more in our world than issue-of-the-week Trek. Hottoq, I guess I didn&#39;t notice the stuff you criticized because I was too caught up in the action and freaking out over what they did to Serenity (the ship) and Wash, and that everyone looked like they might die at any moment. Wash&#39;s death really messed with my head, because as each crew member got hit, it looked like any one of them could go, so the threat of imminent doom ratched up the tension. I was more interested in that than paying attention to the set. In fact, if it was a more elaborate set, I&#39;d argue that it would have actually taken away from the scene. This is why I respect Whedon&#39;s stuff, because the cookie-cutter genre stuff (which he loves) is just background for great characters who sometimes buck those genre expectations.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 11:16 p.m. CST

    Kai and Bass, we can&#39;t miss you if you don&#39;t leave.

    by Lenny Nero

    I am disappointed with the b.o. take, but bashing it into our skulls only makes you seem like assholes. Please, just go do something else. It must be hard having all this negative energy inside. I see ulcers in your future.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 11:39 p.m. CST


    by Ribbons

    You have to be aware that you&#39;re using rhetoric in your posts, right? Riiight? The way you pretended my post rambled any more than yours just did was cute. And yeah I admitted that I didn&#39;t think your question was definitely rhetorical. Ooohh! Diss!! So the fuck what? "You and who?" is a pretty open-ended question, especially when it has a lot to do with what you and oisin (YES, you and oisin, and no one else) were discussing in the first place. Let&#39;s humor you here: your reaction was different because it wasn&#39;t dependent on an answer from wolf at the door. Okay. How was sabrefox&#39;s "me" dependent on an answer from you? And sure you have a right to be mad at him for responding to a post that he was not invited to respond to, but that doesn&#39;t make you any less of a hypocrite for doing the exact same thing. Only difference is wolf at the door has either stopped reading this TalkBack by now (smart man) or has chosen not to, as you say, "throw a hissyfit." Somebody can punch somebody else on the street in the back of the head; the propriety of the action doesn&#39;t hinge on the reaction of the "punchee." Nice try. As for pretending that your interjection was okay because it was an "observation and commentary" and not a question: that in and of itself makes no difference. It depends on how you define a private conversation, because I&#39;m pretty sure that, to use your real-life analogy, both would be equally obnoxious, the "commentary" perhaps moreso. So how do you define private conversation? Someone&#39;s name is in the header. Okay. If that&#39;s how you choose to define it, then you have a right to get uppity, I suppose. But I can&#39;t tell you how many times that&#39;s happened to me. And you&#39;ve probably done it yourself without even realizing it. It&#39;s immensely difficult to expect a private conversation in a public forum (this is why I said "don&#39;t be ridiculous," which I suspect you knew but made me explain anyway), and I mean I don&#39;t know; maybe you ought to expect that, but I&#39;m pretty sure most people on the Internet (at least here) don&#39;t think that&#39;s the way it works.

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 11:39 p.m. CST

    The Problem With Serenity Haters

    by DarthBen

    Seems to me like there are a lot more haters of this movie than there should be. Seems to me that there are a lot of fans of Star Trek, Star Wars, Farscape (hell, just pick your TV, Movie or Comic Book) who intensely dislike Serenity. Again, I don&#39;t get it. Aren&#39;t we on the same side, here? Don&#39;t you guys get that if movies like Serenity fail, you will never get another Star Trek or Farscape or *adaptation of random obscure comic book by Alan Moore*? If we don&#39;t support geek movies, then all we are going to be getting is Jessica Alba in a Bikini, part 2. I suggest that every sci-fi geek out there, whether they be overweight or underweight, whether they be Trekker or Jedi-lover or X-Phile or what have you, every single sci-fi geek should support a little movie like Serenity. Not once but twice, at least. I put my money where my mouth is. Went and saw Constantine 3 times. For the love of Constantine? No, rather, for the love of sci-fi films. Saw Hellboy twice in the theater, bought the DVD, then the special edition DVD. Why? For the love of sci-fi films. Because I know that by supporting the smallest of these movies, I might give a chance that the Next Great Geek Film will be made. C&#39;mon, folks, you were probably just going to spend the money on pizza and porn anyways, right? See Serenity again this weekend. If you haven&#39;t seen it yet, for the love of Harry&#39;s red head, get going and take a friend.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 12:02 a.m. CST

    Bash your head into it Lenny?

    by Bass Ackwards

    You know, aside from having a bit of fun with the guy who called everyone who thought the film was gonna open up at 10 million idiots, all I&#39;ve done is reply to things other people have been saying. Its not like I&#39;ve been randomly jumping up and down going box office flop, box office flop! And hell, the only thing I&#39;ve actually even said about the box office is that its silly to compare the opening weekend to Batman Begins. But whatever, I won&#39;t be too hard on ya cause I&#39;m sure you haven&#39;t even read my posts, just saw my name mentioned by someone else and assumed you disagreed with me enough to toss me into the shed with the other straw men.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 12:18 a.m. CST

    shitty final battle and TV sets

    by oisin5199

    I disagree that it was a shitty final battle. I thought it was pretty brutal for a PG13 sci fi fight. Mal was stuck through with a sword and kept painfully fighting, for chrissakes. And their banter was more than typical one-liners, but an argument over moral philosophy (maybe I&#39;m remembering wrong but that&#39;s what stuck with me). Yes, it was similar to the set used in the episode War Stories, but again, I didn&#39;t care (low budget, some sets reused, I&#39;m over it). And the point of turning it into a movie was NOT necessarily to make it more grand and epic. It was to tell the story. It was always going to be a little story about a little band of people fighting the power. You can&#39;t compare it to LOTR (and if you&#39;re referring to the troll scene, I&#39;m sorry but that was one of the few lame moments of the films, I thought).

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 12:20 a.m. CST

    but I respect your criticisms, hottoq

    by oisin5199

    unlike others who haven&#39;t seen the movie and just want to keep up the bashing....

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 12:22 a.m. CST

    and whoops

    by Bass Ackwards

    so there&#39;s no confusion, when I said other straw men up above I didn&#39;t mean Kai, I was making an allusion to the argumentative fallacy, or trying to, got to fancy for my own good.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 12:23 a.m. CST


    by MasterWhedon

    I&#39;m late to the party and I won&#39;t be sticking around for long, but good posts on this thread. I think you&#39;ve pretty clearly illustrated yourself to be a resonable individual, and I&#39;ve enjoyed reading your stuff for some time now. That said, I&#39;d really like to invite you to join "the place we don&#39;t speak of," the Phantom Zone. You&#39;d be a natural fit, seeing as you prefer to actually discuss the topic at hand instead of baiting other posters into pointless arguments. (Mind you, I&#39;ve named no names, so by the rules established above, no one but oisin5199 can respond to that charge.) If you&#39;re comfortable posting an e-mail address in here, I&#39;ll send you the link myself, otherwise I&#39;ll write to the higher ups and have them send the address of your way. Glad to see Ribbons is in fine form too. And, of course, a certain someone is in fine form as always...

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 12:25 a.m. CST

    Did I really write "fine form," like, eight times?

    by MasterWhedon

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 12:30 a.m. CST

    I&#39;m a serenity fan

    by samuraisix

    Would I call myself a browncoat? I dunno. I don&#39;t consider myself pushy. I just like to spread the news about a really underseen tv show. I&#39;ve been reading a lot about how pushy the browncoat audience is, especially on chud. It&#39;s just a fun story, not this life or death thing. I really enjoyed the movie and plan to recommend it to a lot of people. This message may fall on deaf ears. Oh well.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 12:58 a.m. CST

    Bass, you should know better than to blatantly assume why I post

    by Lenny Nero

    Isn&#39;t that blind posting? For the b.o. thing, I was talking mainly to Kai. Sorry if the subject line was unclear. For you, it was the blatant attacks on talkbackers for no reason other than to yell. Observe: "I&#39;ve said nothing more complicated then if you don&#39;t want to talk about something, then obviously its not for you, so ignore it and don&#39;t talk about it. If Kai&#39;s post didn&#39;t interest you, then wouldn&#39;t it have been easier to let it sit as the reply to someone else that it was? Instead the posters decided to derail their own discussion by trying to tell him, after his post, to stop discussing it, because they were talking about something else. I&#39;m sorry you&#39;re ability to enjoy something is so frail that its destroyed by something as simple as a person posting on a different subject, but you&#39;re gonna waste a lot of time if you need to run around trying to get everyone else to abide by that frailty." In other words, by complaining that people are trying to move on to another discussion, you yourself move onto another discussion. It&#39;s just a vicious circle. This is the last we shall talk, I assure you.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 1:43 a.m. CST

    Lenny, Blatantly assume?

    by Bass Ackwards

    I didn&#39;t assume anything, I simply responded to what you wrote. I&#39;m not sure why you think I should have read what you wrote, and divined that you were actually talking about something wholly different. Nor do I have any idea what you consider in that quoted section as a blatant attack, or even a general attack, or even what you seem to think of me as yelling. But to clear up the rather odd interpretation you seem to have taken of my post, I wasn&#39;t complaining that people were moving onto a different discussion. I could care less what discussions are occurring in any talkback at any time, if someone says something that inspires me to respond, then I will, if not, I won&#39;t, but I&#39;m not gonna spend much time trying to tell other people which topics they should and shouldn&#39;t be whiling away about on here. And that was my rather simple point, there are many different people in the talkbacks, and there just may be, on that rarest of occassions, more than one discussion occuring at a time. My simple point was only saying that if people want to have their discussion on whatever, then to simply have it, and to not try to dictate the talkback by wasting time harping on posters who are having different discussions. And for future reference, if you don&#39;t want to engage me, then don&#39;t randomly call me out, but its a non-point since I have been assured we shan&#39;t talk again, fortwith and toot sweet sir!

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 2:17 a.m. CST

    $10 Million Opening Weekend

    by fiester

    Not exactly stellar. That will drop to a 1/4 of that next week, then (thankfully) it will be gone and we won&#39;t have to hear about it anymore. Enjoy your collectible DVD, Brownnoses.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 2:33 a.m. CST

    just when you thought the talkback was becoming more civilized

    by DarthHomercles

    Thanks for lowering this talkback back down to the lowest common denominator, fiester.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 2:59 a.m. CST

    Wow, Firefly is good...

    by grendel824

    I haven&#39;t seen Serenity yet, but a friend just exposed me to the first few episodes of Firefly and I love it. I&#39;ve already ordered the DVDs, and as soon as I&#39;m done watching them I&#39;ll head out to see the movie. I hope the movie does well and helps get more of this stuff in our hands, whether through TV, DVD, or anything else they can think of...

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 3:03 a.m. CST

    by Harlow

    I thought these forums were public, Kai? If you so want to have a private, one on one exchange with Ribbons or whoever, why don&#39;t you ask him for his email and you guys can be pen pals (bet you won&#39;t get his address though cause you&#39;re kind of creepy). Gotta say I really liked the movie but I absolutely agree with hottoq. The corridor set didn&#39;t bug me as much as the bar set. It was just bad. Before the bar scene, they show a shot of a busy metropolitian city and then they show a bar that looks like it&#39;s in a cave without hardly anyone around? What? It was just bad design.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 3:14 a.m. CST


    by Harlow

    I don&#39;t really care that there won&#39;t be sequels. Sure I appreciate them if they&#39;re done well (even, yes...gasp...the Star Wars prequels...Lucas is the king). But some of my favorite movies never had sequels. Movies like The Outlaw Josey Wales, Goodfellas, The Fifth Element, Jaws (let me be in denial...please). I understand the sequel and franchise mentality but sometimes you have to appreciate a movie for what it is. Not where it&#39;s going. And that&#39;s why I enjoyed the shit out of Serenity. I&#39;m just happy to have seen a kickass sci-fi movie which I will surely own at some point.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 3:39 a.m. CST


    by Juggernaut125

    When you put it like that, it&#39;s hard to argue. I guess I mentioned WC because it made practically twice the BO than Serenity and can, in no way, be described logically as a better movie. That makes me angry. And so, my convoluted post was echoed before and after, about supporting a film genre we care about, so that more movies like it will be made. I&#39;ve tried to read almost every TB above, and the resounding negative feedback for "Serenity" aside from hottoq hasn&#39;t been ABOUT Serenity. But, rather an attack on the fans themselves. Does that seem right?

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 4:07 a.m. CST

    by Harlow

    The fans do seem to get attacked a lot at AICN. I agree it seems...a little misguided. If a film is so terrible I would love to know why you think so (not why I suck a big one). But I guess there was some hijacking of other talkbacks by browncoats and some people feel animosity towards them. It seems to me that there are always haters in the TBs (a small amount to be sure...I think most are film fans and generally have great insights). Some other sites have way less hostile forums. You might want to try them (especially if you&#39;re a Lucas or Whedon fan). I also think all of genre fans will be losing out due to Serenity&#39;s BO failure, because it&#39;s just a damn good sci-fi flick. But oh well. You can never keep sc-fi down. It&#39;ll be back at some point. And we got a kickass finale to a kickass TV show.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 6:29 a.m. CST

    Commando Cody, Sky Captain cost twice as much as Serenity

    by Razorback

    You cannot call Serenity a flop until it does actually flop. If its final take is more than its cost then it isn&#39;t technically a flop. Plus, it will make tons on DVD sales. However, I agree with much of everything else you said. The Browncoats have been acting holier than thou, and throwing their "genius" writing preacher around for so long.... even though I liked Serenity, there is a satisfaction in how poorly it did in the first weekend. Yet, I also hope it does well enough to continue the series. So, I am torn. But these Whedonites are just.... poster children for KARMA.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 6:55 a.m. CST

    Makes you wonder what is really keeping people away...

    by The True Priapic

    ...seems to have been plenty of cash invested in the promotion in the terms of tv ads and posters but really....what are they selling?The average Joe just thinks &#39;more sc-fi&#39; and is still aching from the rubbishness of sith and notable there doesn&#39;t seem to be a blonde in this...hmm...must have a blonde arian type to sell to the masses.Apparentley.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 7:55 a.m. CST

    Thank Herc and Tonay for the anger...

    by ComputerGuy68

    Geeks or not, they had a mission to want this to fail because of all the hype we had for the past year over this film. Harry is just as guilty with the LOTR worship here too. One thing we keep forgetting, people hate being told what to do and what to like. By constantly claiming "the best show/film of all time" gets under a lot of peoples skin and then the backlash starts. Human nature at it finest. This site has made me hate more projects in the last few years. Why do I come back? Very few have (that I have been too) have a talkback section, and this place IS a good source of information. Harry has gotten better (imho), but Herc needs to be toned down. And posters like Tonay need to be removed quickly. Hey I&#39;m all for free speech, but who here doesn

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 9:04 a.m. CST

    Oh please, now you have a conspiracy theory about Browncoat assh

    by Razorback

    People, I was AT one of the previews, and the Browncoats there were exactly as people described. ANNOYING. They were here too, just like they have been on their fan sites. They pumped this movie up, created artificial buzz (by creating multiple accounts) and then when the movie doesn&#39;t do well they come here and conjecture conspiracy theories. You know what, Browncoats ARE trolls. They have been trolling for over a year. That is just their nature.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 9:23 a.m. CST

    Commando cody

    by optimus122

    Firefly dvds are still flying off the shelves almost 2 years later..when is the last time you seen anyone even renting a sky captain dvd let alone buying it..serenity dvd&#39;s will be selling like hot cakes for a long ass time to come my friend..get ready for a lot more from joss and more firefly goodness down the road..we can&#39;t be stopped..damn asswipe.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 9:31 a.m. CST

    All of hottoq&#39;s posts are missing

    by sabrefox

    which is too bad as I wanted to respond to his criticisms of Serenity. I don&#39;t remember them all, but one of them was about the set upon which the final battle scene took place between Mal and The Operative. I have to say when the Mal came up and the area was revealed, I tried to reason with myself why someone would have such an elaborate setup of chainfalls and other stuff arranged around the platform of the backup transmitter. I felt a little burdened by that, like I had to come up with a reason myself - perhaps there is an easy, secret way through that only Mr. Universe knew about (like the platforms that appeared once the transmission had been sent) but anyone one else would have to find there own way across. This might give Mr. Universe a few extra seconds to get a distress call off. It was the best reason I could come up with, but I wasn&#39;t very satisfied with it. Any one else have an idea on the arrangement, other than a plot device to extend the scene?

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 9:36 a.m. CST

    So the Real Question is...

    by DarthBen

    Who gets laid more, Trekkers or Browncoats?

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 9:39 a.m. CST

    But Seriously...

    by DarthBen

    I know Browncoats have a bad rep for being a-holes, but they&#39;ve been fighting an uphill battle for a long time. Like their hero, Mal, after a long time of being beaten up, they have become (understandably) a little touchy. Can&#39;t we all just get along?

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 9:40 a.m. CST

    The chains were there to move equipment

    by jim

    It was, after all, just him there. He would need a good system of pullys to move all the stuff around. The walkway can probably be activated from the other side but Mal did not know from where and did not have the time to find it. Or maybe Mr. Universer has a remote that activates it from the other side. I&#39;m just guessing. I hadn&#39;t paid it much thought at the time.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 9:41 a.m. CST

    criticisms of Serenity, pt 2

    by sabrefox

    I also remember hottoq not liking the cave bar set, or the corridor in which the last stand occured. I can&#39;t say that I noticed either of these during my viewing of the film. I suppose the bar scene was rather dark and I just didn&#39;t pay much attention to the surrounds they were in as much as the dialog and events that were occuring. I&#39;ll have to pay attantion the next time I see it. As for the corridor (and I think someone atated something similar) I was to absorbed into what had just happened to Wash and the peril that the rest of the crew was in to notice any blatent cheapness of the set. Again, something to look for on a subsequent viewing. You may very well be correct, but I think that either way it won&#39;t reduce my enjoyment of the film too much. Like others have said above, I&#39;m just happy to have gotten to see the film at all. Hottoq, if you&#39;re still around, thanks for giving the Talkback something to discuss other than B.O. and past Browncoat transgressions.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 9:50 a.m. CST

    Bummer, since I appreciated his comments.

    by sabrefox

  • when I read MasterWhedon&#39;s post inviting oisin5199 to "The Phantom Zone". <pointing> Look, there he goes....he&#39;s been selected by God for something better..... :)

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 9:54 a.m. CST


    by B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

    I&#39;m really surprised that nobody on the talkbacks has come up with the name "brown-starfishes" for Firefly fans. You&#39;re slipping people! BTW, before you bash me, I&#39;ve seen the series and I liked it, but I haven&#39;t seen the movie yet. To the person who said that mediocre sci-fi movies will be the end result of Serenity&#39;s low box-office, I think it&#39;s the opposite. Studios will realize that they have to go all out and make a BETTER sci-fi movie...

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 10:16 a.m. CST

    Several of us have had that argument, me being one of them.

    by sabrefox

    I suppose that depends on how the studios view their product in comparison to the average product produced in that genre. What ever method/benchmark they would choose to use, if a studio thought that their product was better than most and did poorly, logic would dictate that they were mistaken in their belief and the movie would be geared more towards the average. Conversely, is a studio knew they were putting out a sub-standard film, and it did poorly, logic would dictate that they they should have done better, however the outcome is still the same, i.e. a move closer to the average. Things quickly get very convoluted though, because there are many ways to rate movies, and the amount of money put into a movie is not directly related to the quality of the final product. The ultimate goal is to provide feedback (in the way of BO returns)to the studios to reward them for releasing quality movies. It seems to me that your way of thinking involves the studios believing they didn&#39;t put out a quality product, dispite all the critical praise the movie is getting. If I was a studio exec, I&#39;d be wondering what else I could have done to make Serenity more appealing without detracting from what was already good about it. I doubt spending tens of millions of dollars in amped-up effects would be worth the investment to draw larger audiences. Anyone care to weigh in?

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 10:17 a.m. CST

    What the hell did Hottoq say to get banned?

    by ComputerGuy68

    AND why did we have to endure Tonay for so long???

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 10:24 a.m. CST

    Here&#39;s a possibility...

    by sabrefox

    A quote from Harry from the Kevin Smith message: "I temporarily shut down Talk Back registration while this whole Brown Coat nonsense blows over - remember - Off Topic BS will get you banned."

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 10:51 a.m. CST

    Quality Sci Fi

    by DarthBen

    Whoa, whoa, those couple of posts on quality...Look, if Serenity fails, it is not going to make Hollywood do "better sci fi". What does that mean? Does quality relate to acting and scripting? What had a better script, Star Wars 3 or Serenity? How about Fantastic Four or Serenity? You have to admit in terms of character and dialouge, Serenity is superior. Okay, so maybe "Quality" means better effects. Need I mention the $100 million budget of Chronicles of Riddick? At least Serenity cost a third of Star Wars or Riddick, so it&#39;s a far less risky investment. As to what the studio could have/should have done, here&#39;s the thing. If Serenity had still made 10 mil, but had opened number one, we wouldn&#39;t be having this conversation. Tinsletown loves its opening weekend. Here&#39;s another thing: How much money was Serenity supposed to make? I&#39;ve read that there&#39;s anywhere between 200,000 and 500,000 Firefly box sets sold out there. So, let&#39;s take the higher number, and assume that everybody who owns a Firefly box set went to see the movie. Let&#39;s average 10 bucks a pop. That&#39;s still only a 5 mil opener. So this little cult sci-fi movie was able to gross literally double what its expected fanbase was. That&#39;s pretty good. Not excusing coming in second, I know Universal wanted big money, no whammies, but that&#39;s still pretty good numbers for a show nobody&#39;s seen. We should probably wait and see how much this movie is going to make worldwide and on DVD before we write off a sequel. Remember Transporter and Pitch Black, folks. Hell, remember Firefly. Good DVDs can justify a movie that costs a third of what most major summer blockbusters do.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11 a.m. CST

    "I&#39;d be wondering what else I could have done to make Sereni

    by ZombieSolutions

    part of me thinks everyone involved knew this was going to be a one shot / lets wrap up the series deal. if they were shooting to build a franchise, they could have dismissed the entire series and started over from scratch making SERENITY the new episode 1 if you will. i think the fact that it was the end of a series (a canceled series, no less, regardless of how wrong that cancelation was) gave it a limited mass appeal from the get go. as has been echoed in many reviews -- will people pay $10 to see a show they wouldn&#39;t watch for free? apparently the answer was, largely, "no." which is a damn shame, because i really liked it alot. ______ as for me, i have only seen a few of the episodes of the tv show, but was interested in the film given what i had read about it and the backstory. now, i&#39;m a fan of Buffy/Angel, and i enjoyed the few episodes i saw, and so was interested in checking out the movie. i loved the movie, BUT, it felt very much like something i walked into at the end... which it is -- it&#39;s the final episode in the series. this probably is one factor that kept me from going batshit crazy for it, while also liking it lots. it left me wanting to see more jaunty space cowboy / space hooker / space psychic cutey adventures. however, the way it is written and shot is far more suited to TV than film. i hope that it gets resurrected as a tv series, cause i would definately start watching it, but i don&#39;t think a sequel franchise is coming. also: to the over the top / rabid / browncoat fans -- you took it too far and went off the deep end. your excitedness is great, but the threats and anger at even postive reviews was a really bad idea. i mean if you look, most of the reviews were very positive. seems like it&#39;s got a solid B, B+, A- grade across the board which i would agree with. but when peeps like Moriarity or Harry said they liked it, but didn&#39;t love it, you went batshit crazy and even threatened to burn their homes down! that is waaay fucked up, and sincerely doubt Whedon appreciated that. anyways, this has gone on too long... i really hope they resurrect the series, but who knows what will happen...

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11 a.m. CST

    This is what you Browncoats cannot wrap your brain around

    by Razorback

    Many do not feel that Serenity is better than Revenge of the Sith. You talk about quality, but quality is subjective. So, you, the Browncoat, are going to think that Serenity is better. The average Star Wars fan is going to think Revenge is better. The thing is, they are so different that any comparison is ridiculous. You set yourself up to be bashed when you make these comparisons. Also, you could have easily grabbed a new base of fans had you not spent so much time attacking them (look at how many BSG fans are also Star Wars fans). Firefly fans made an effort to attack Star Wars fans, instead of simply saying "Hey guys, check this out, maybe you will like it."

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11:02 a.m. CST

    One last thing...

    by DarthBen

    Does anybody care that Serenity&#39;s per-screen average was higher than Flightplan? Flightplan was on over 1000 more screens! If Serenity had been on as many screens as our dear Jodie, assuming the numbers stayed the same, the film would have grossed 15.8 million.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11:04 a.m. CST

    " i mean if you look, most of the reviews were very positive. se

    by Razorback

    The overall average of reviews was a C- (based on ratings). That is counting positive and negative (from Rottentomatoes). The average number of positive reviews is hovering around 79-80%.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11:06 a.m. CST

    "Does anybody care that Serenity&#39;s per-screen average was hi

    by Razorback

    It was lower than A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE and it also lost money on Saturday. This argument isn&#39;t going to go anywhere positive for you.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11:07 a.m. CST

    "Hey guys, check this out, maybe you will like it."

    by ZombieSolutions

    EXACTLY. i agree 100% Razorback. i really liked the movie, but goddamn, the "browncoats" lost their effing minds. if they had taken the tack that, "yo, if you guys dig Han Solo, you should check out Serenity/ Firefly; it&#39;s got a similar feel / jaunty space cowboy adventure. you should dig it." that&#39;s what the LFL bloggers were saying, and they work for Lucas! (who i&#39;m sure, if he has seen it, probably liked it alot too -- say what you will about Lucas, he really loves and often gives props to other sci-fi / pulp franchisese). they also should have appealed to fans of COWBOY BEEBOP or OUTLAW STAR... or BLAKES 7 for that matter... but, no, it became a war. bad idea.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11:09 a.m. CST

    The average number of positive reviews is hovering around 79-80%

    by ZombieSolutions

    wait, doesn&#39;t that put it in the B range? C+, B-, B? personally, i&#39;d give it a B, B+. but thats IMHO. i dug it.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11:10 a.m. CST

    uh, no DarthBen we don&#39;t...

    by ComputerGuy68

    Can we let the B/O stuff drop until next weekend. See if word of mouth can save it. Spin control is not the answer. Wait until next Sunday to settle this once and for all.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11:11 a.m. CST

    I Loved SITH and SERENITY

    by ZombieSolutions

    is that so wrong? (i loved SITH more, but i grew up with Star Wars, so naturally i have a closer connection to the characters.)

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11:33 a.m. CST

    Bad Argument

    by DarthBen

    I apologize for the flimsy "more screens" argument. I got up for a break and realized how dumb my argument was. I guess I&#39;m just flummoxed. Like ZombieSolutions, I grew up with Star Wars, love star wars more, love Sith more, but dammit, Serenity is like that ugly girl with great personality nobody wants to take to the prom. Can&#39;t help but root for her, you know? And here&#39;s the other thing, Serenity just feels so unpretenitous, unlike Matrix or even Star Wars. I guess I just want me another franchise that doesn&#39;t involve wizards (Narnia, LOTR, Harry Potter) or recycled comic books. I&#39;m not a Browncoat. A real Browncoat would have been around since 02. I only picked up the DVDs this summer because I heard the movie was getting made, and was fascinated to see what all the fuss was about. I&#39;ve been sticking up for the Browncoats because I&#39;m starting to see what they&#39;ve been seeing: A genuinely quality story with some of the best sci fi characters to come around in the last five years. Mal Reynolds is the real deal. America deserves a hero like this. Indy is going to be in a retirement home in the next film. Star Wars is over. Potter and the Narnia kids are British. We deserve cussin, fightin, space cowboys like Mal and Jayne and Zoe. I love the story of why this movie was made. This little movie got made just because the fans wouldn&#39;t let go. I just wish this whole thing would have a happy ending. I wish next weekend Serenity would hang in to No 2 or No 3, would somehow have legs for the next month. I wish that this film would do well enough to warrent a sequel, or at the very least, to warrent a Sci Fi Channel series. I&#39;ve seen the film twice and that final scene between River and Mal just chokes me up. Love really did keep this ship flying. I understand the zeal of the Browncoats, and a little bit of their unpleasentness. They&#39;ve been fighting a looooong Battle of Serenity Valley. I just wish their side would start feeling like the winning one.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11:37 a.m. CST

    An amalgam

    by Juggernaut125

    Of Sith and Serenity would possibly make the ultimate sci-fi. The prequels as a whole had amazing effects but the characters (minus Ben Kenobi) were pretty much abused. The dialogue was wooden, and the storyline was flawed. But they also had Ewan McGreggor, Natalie Portman and even a recognizable fan base to throw gobs of money at. For Serenity, it was the exact opposite. Amateurish / Made for TV effects (although, I loved the Alliance / Reavers battle tons) and sets due to a lower budget, but there was awesome character interaction with a plausible storyline. As for the fanbase. If you mentioned Star Wars to Joe Blow on the street, it&#39;s pretty certain he&#39;ll know what you&#39;re talking about. If you say Joss Whedon, or Firefly or Serenity, he&#39;ll more than likely just look at you like you&#39;ve got lobsters coming out of your ears. THAT is why the BO is lower than we&#39;d want it to be. So, if Joss or George are reading this, that is my recommendation. Get together youse guys. DON&#39;T make another Star Wars. DON&#39;T make another Serenity. Make a new space opera / western that EVERYONE can sink their teeth into and enjoy. Blow everything that has come before it out of the frelling skies.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11:38 a.m. CST


    by sabrefox

    Razorback, do your observations hold only for this site or is this behavior something you&#39;ve observed elsewhere? I just wonder if this is the only place these "attacks" are happening. I consider myself a Star Wars fan, more so of the original trilogy, though I did enjoy the backstory provided by the prequels. However, even before Serenity, or Firefly for that matter, I thought the writing of the prequels left something to be desired. Though I try to rationalize that the difference I feel when watching the two trilogies is because I was a child when watching the original, I can&#39;t quite convince myself that it&#39;s true. George did a much better job with the original films. I can FEEL the relationshhip between Han and Leia grow. In the prequels, all I can say is that I SEE the relationship between Anakin and Padme grow; I just don&#39;t feel it. If you honestly can tell me otherwise, teriffic. I&#39;m glad that the movies make you feel that way. Now I don&#39;t want this to turn into an off-topic post, lest I get banned. I am trying to show that my feelings about the Star Wars movies were already set before I saw Firefly/Serenity. I consider myself a fan of both movies, but in my opinion, Serenity is better written than the Star Wars prequels. As I&#39;ve stated before, JW&#39;s stories have heart and that is what particularly appeals to me. Comparing it to the originals would be much more difficult for me. I am in complete agreement with you that Serenity and Star Wars are entirely different movies, and thus comparisons are difficult. You could call me a sci-fi whore of sorts. I like most stuff that&#39;s out there. I LOVED Farspace, and currenly love BSG. Star Wars will always be a favorite. The Matrix facinated me. I&#39;m an old school fan of Doctor Who, and hell, I even got a kick out of Lexx. I make comparisons simply on the measure of how much enjoyment I get out of a movie. For me, that generaly means some combination of: minimal questions afterward, a little workout for my emotions, a story that leaves me wanting more, some humor/fun thrown in. Perhaps because I like so many things, I feel able to make a judgement on two stories that are lightyears apart. I don&#39;t mean to impose that judgement on anyone else. I&#39;m just putting it out there for discussion, whether you feel the same or not. Like that cell-phone commercial, "If we all the same, it would be creepy."

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11:43 a.m. CST

    "Serenity is like that ugly girl with great personality nobody w

    by ZombieSolutions

    first quote -- oh man, that&#39;s so mean, but it&#39;s so true. ____ second quote -- it&#39;s true! *sniff*sob*choke* the fact that SERENITY happened AT ALL is becuase of the love. moreover i think that love may keep it alive as a series of some sort. why not right? it did modest business for a mid-budget flick, and theres still next week and then DVD, of course, where it will probably sell like crazy. ____ in short, i still think there is a chance its going to continue as a Sci-Fi channel series or somthing. why not, right? they&#39;ve greenlighted tons of terrible shit that nobody watches, why not greenlight a cool show that has a solid fanbase -- the kind of thing that could actaully grow? i wouldn&#39;t give up on it yet... and if it is over-over, at least you got yer ending.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11:47 a.m. CST

    Am I the only fan who hated this movie?

    by _Maltheus_

    I loved the show, the movie wasn&#39;t as good as the lamest episode though. The deaths were completely unnecessary and contrived. The was simply no point to them. I like brave moves like killing off main characters, the death of Wesley was near perfect, but Whedon treated Wash and Book like Star Trek red shirts. Jayne would have never following Mal into Reaver territory, and why the hell would Mal be going in the first place? Because River mumbled some word? Gimme a break. The show was a great small "heist of the week" story. They tried to do something big for the movie and I felt if failed tremendously. They should have made a big, funny heist in space movie. Why have Book no longer a member of the crew, only to come back and kill him later? Where did he get the money to be fixing up the ship like that in the end? Didn&#39;t they always barely have enough money for fuel? It just sucked! And unlike the stupid haters on this site, I can say that because I&#39;m a genuine fan of the show. There were some funny moments, but even those weren&#39;t on par with the average episode. The River reveal was anti-climatic. Oh, she could kick ass huh? I was always hoping there would be more than that. River the Reaver Slayer. Is that it? ......... I was surprised to find that my parents liked it a lot, even though they never watched the show. They might give it a shot now. When I was watching the movie, I felt bad for recommending it to them and was gonna call and tell them not to bother. I thought the marketing campaign was weak. It should have focused on the humor. Not that there was much in the movie, but that&#39;s Firefly&#39;s most marketable commodity. ......... I really wish for some (any) TV show to be able to successfully make the transistion to the big screen. Why do they all muck with successful formulas out of a perceived "need" to make the transistion? Write it like a big season finale-like episode and then project it on the big screen. How hard is that? Oh well, a sad end to a decent show. Maybe Whedon will go back to television finally? That is, if Wonder Women doesn&#39;t completely bankrupt his reputation. That&#39;s a guaranteed flop regardless of who&#39;s at the helm.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11:48 a.m. CST

    DarthBen, I appreciate your position

    by sabrefox

    and wish there was more support from people like you. I really enjoy all the Serenity characters, but I think Mal is the most interesting. I didn&#39;t see the similarities to Han Solo until my wife said something about it. He really is someone to rout for and your post excellently describes the same excitement I feel.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11:55 a.m. CST

    River the Reaver Slayer

    by ZombieSolutions

    OH! i&#39;d see that movie! i&#39;d see it once, twice, three times a laaaadaaaay. i love &#39;em the totally outrageous and improbable 90 pound girl beating up monsters thing. that was my favorite part of SERENITY. byootiful. more of this, please. thank you.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 11:57 a.m. CST

    _Maltheus_, Mal went to Miranda

    by sabrefox

    because they learned from Mr. Universe that the Alliance was looking for River, and deduced that she had value for some reason. Their only insight into that value was "Miranda", later revealed to be a planet suspiciously surrounded by Reavers. After all the people who had sheltered them in the past were destroyed, Mal and company knew how far the Alliance would go to get River. His only option at that point was to figure out what the Alliance was hiding, which meant taking a chance that Miranda was that secret.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 12:08 p.m. CST


    by DarthBen

    You know, I want more Serenity because I love the Characters, and I want the actors who played them to continue getting a steady paycheck. I ain&#39;t worried for Whedon, he&#39;ll land on his feet, but most of these actors have created characters so iconic that they should be their bread and butter for years to come. If there was a sequel movie, Whedon would have to do a brilliant hat trick. This film is so well wrapped up, especially with River healed and part of the ship (as apparently the pilot) and losing Book and Wash, and the sheer scope of this film, would prove difficult for a sequel. I know, I know, there&#39;s plenty of storylines left, and I think Whedon himself hinted on Monday or so about Early the Bounty Hunter returning. But the best villain of this story were the Reavers, and we&#39;ve officially done the Reaver story. Ah hell, whatever. Universal, Sci Fi Channel, whoever, if you make more, I&#39;ll watch. Whenever Mal suits up again, you can bet there&#39;ll always be a small but ravenous and zealous audience.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 12:19 p.m. CST

    I disagree (partially) about the deaths.

    by sabrefox

    I suppose Book&#39;s death could be considered unnecessary; they could have returned to find the settlement attacked but still intact because Book was able to take &#39;em down. I probably would have bought that. On the other hand, I feel that both deaths really drive home the seriousness of the whole matter. Mal was content to stay out of the Alliance&#39;s way and go about his business, providing an existance for him and his crew. Book&#39;s death, along with all the other settlements that get destroyed because of their association to Mal, become this weight of guilt around Mal&#39;s neck. In the past, he avoided getting people unnecessarily killed. Now he was the direct cause of hundreds of people&#39;s deaths, including a dear friend. Nothing like that to motivate someone to make an extreme choice, like going somewhere you would never think of going under normal conditions. As far as Wash&#39;s death (as has been discussed on multiple other sites I&#39;ve visited), it communicates to the audience that he&#39;s not fucking around. This is life, life sucks and you just have to deal. Things happen when you least expect it and damn if I wasn&#39;t shocked. If it wasn&#39;t clear before, now the audience knows just how dire the situation is. I always enjoyed Wash&#39;s interjections, poking fun (comment about Jane getting beaten up by a 90 lb girl) and his relationship with Zoe was endearing. Watching the nice guy get killed so suddenly pissed me off initially, but later I was glad it happened because if everyone made it through with just scrapes and bruises, I would have been the typical hero&#39;s winning the day scene, and not JW&#39;s style.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 12:19 p.m. CST

    _Maltheus_, looks like you are comparing this to THE CHRONICLES

    by ComputerGuy68

    Starts out with a small intimate story (Pitch Black) and then tries to be bigger than it really is with the next one.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 12:31 p.m. CST

    Arbitrary deaths

    by Juggernaut125

    I disagree with you that Book&#39;s and Wash&#39;s deaths were unnecessary. Granted, I too would have liked to see them live on and on, but as part of a story, they emphasized both the Alliance&#39;s AND the Reavers brutality. Wow, the Alliance killed off all of these people that Mal knew but the movie going audience has never met. Big whoop. Wait, they also killed off this likable sage as well, because he was Mal&#39;s friend. NOW they&#39;re bastards. But Book didn&#39;t go out like a bitch, he took down the ship himself, because he&#39;s an enigma. A man of peace capable of amazing acts of calculated violence. His was a good death. It inspired Mal to do more than just run and hide. It inspired him to fight. And, as for Wash, I believe his was a good death as well. He was a leaf on the wind. Out manoeuvering both Alliance and Reaver ships to deliver the message to the universe. Mal didn&#39;t get them there. Neither did River. It was Wash. The plucky comic relief plucked too soon. And message delivered, he dies. Demonstrating that the Reavers are truly a force of violence. And, that any of the crew might perish at their hand. If no one died, then it&#39;s just a skirmish and the audience isn&#39;t going to get as involved in their fight, because their peril isn&#39;t as palpable. To use the previously mentioned Troll battle from LOTR, this fight, although not as well staged or choreographed was more realistic in that the good guys were getting pummeled, in LOTR only one Hobit took ANY damage at all (from a Troll, with a spear, dead centre to his chest) and he walked away like it was a bad tummy ache. Because of Wash&#39;s death, you could see the wave of dispair on the faces of the crew. They were scared. They could die. The Reavers were death. That is what Wash&#39;s death meant.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 12:37 p.m. CST

    Once again sabrefox

    by Juggernaut125

    lol. great minds...

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 12:44 p.m. CST

    GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!! lol :)

    by sabrefox

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 1:05 p.m. CST

    re: greatn

    by _Maltheus_

    Yes, in real life, you are right. This is fiction though. If you&#39;re gonna kill off beloved characters, have them go out either in a blaze of glory, or in some other interesting way (ala Lindsey on Angel), or in a dramatic heartwrenching manner (ala Wesley). I mean, really, I shouldn&#39;t have to explain this. If they had died this way during the series, the fans would have all hated it. ......... Oh yeah, one other big thing, what was with Zoe&#39;s non-reaction to her husband&#39;s death? Don&#39;t give me, "she was a soldier," crap either. I suppose you could argue that she was in shock, but again, fiction, the reasons should be contained within the story. The Zoe of TV would have had some kind of (interesting) reaction.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 1:17 p.m. CST

    deaths, bars and Master Whedon

    by oisin5199

    Glad we skipped over the further box office bullshit and back to the movie. Although one note on that - if there wasn&#39;t some expectation that a franchise would be started, why did the actors sign for three movies? Obviously, the studio wanted the option. Anyway, back to the movie. First off, the bar. Someone posted "a bar that looks like it&#39;s in a cave without hardly anyone around?" Ignoring the double negative, I&#39;m not sure what cities you&#39;ve been to, but I know there are many bars in the middle of many cities that look like caves with no one in them - probably the reason why the characters picked the bar in the first place. And who cares? I&#39;m sorry, but this a weak criticism. I agree wholeheartedly with what Sabrefox and Juggernaut have been saying about the death factor. Book&#39;s death pushed Mal to go the extreme of Reavering up the ship and making his final gambit - after all he was following Book&#39;s advice and looking for something to believe in and he didn&#39;t want Book to die in vain, while Wash&#39;s death upped the stakes of the final fight and made it clear that anyone could die. Finally, Master Whedon, I&#39;d be honored to join the, I mean Phantom Zone. Does that mean I&#39;m gonna get all flat and rotating? I&#39;m not one of those people with multiple emails, and I tend to piss people off here with my views on politics and religion, so I&#39;m not going to post my email. If the other method (through administration) is viable, I&#39;d like that. Thanks.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 1:21 p.m. CST

    one more deaths comment

    by oisin5199

    Maltheus, I&#39;ve said it before and I&#39;ll say it again. Dramatic hysterics and blazes of glory feel cheap on the screen and leave me cold. This may be a different interpretation of what films "should be." But I wasn&#39;t expecting a "NOOOO!" Zoe&#39;s reaction was spot on and tragic. Sometimes people just die and there&#39;s no rising soundtrack or great speech. Look at Buffy&#39;s mom in The Body or Anya in Chosen. Sometimes you just have to keep fighting. It&#39;s this real stuff that can resonate in a film, not the cheap manipulative (movieish) stuff.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 1:24 p.m. CST


    by MasterWhedon

    No prob. I sent a message off to the admins. You will be a pod person shortly.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 1:35 p.m. CST


    by sabrefox

    Though you may not like it, the "soldier" bit IS part of the answer, but I think it&#39;s more than that. You&#39;ve apparently seen the series so you know Zoe and Mal served together in the war. She is always the follower to Mal&#39;s lead. Not to say she is mindless (e.g. her remarks about leaving the person behind during the hiest in the beginning), but she was kinda robotic, always the colder side of the relationship with Wash. Remember in "Ariel" where Wash wanted to go have fun on the planet and she had absolutely no interest in it, especially the romantic stuff ("I don&#39;t care if there are 24 hour sunsets, I&#39;m not setting foot on that planet). From what I&#39;ve seen of her, she is always logic before feeling. Yet, she is so furious and vengeful about Wash&#39;s death that she carelessly and illogically leaves cover to go mano-a-mano with the Reavers. I&#39;d say that is a huge reaction from her normal behavior. Sure she didn&#39;t fall to her knees and become a quivering waste of flesh to mourn her husband, because she had people depending on her to do her job. That&#39;s how I see it. It&#39;s difficult to predict how people will react when the chips are down and the stakes are high. I suppose if she HAD broken down and cried a river for Wash, I doubt I would have considered it to be out-of-character for her, as we have so few episodes upon which to predict the responses of these charcters. I&#39;d say that JW knows the characters best and whatever he does with them is what they&#39;re supposed to do. Sorry you were so let down by the film. I sympathize with you; I&#39;d feel very let down if I was as dissapointed with the film as you seem to be.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 1:49 p.m. CST

    Kinda my reaction too, greatn

    by sabrefox

    especially since oisin5199 was praised for his level-headedness. Always nice to be recognized for good behavior, though I never knew there were perks for such things. Guess I can&#39;t complain since this is the first Talkback I&#39;ve ever posted in. What say you and I try to goad oisin5199 into a down-n-dirty fight that will invalidate his entry to the Phantom Zone? lol!

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 2:22 p.m. CST

    greatn and sabrefox

    by MasterWhedon

    I don&#39;t mean to exclude you guys, it&#39;s just that at this point the Zone is invitation-only, and I&#39;m not really familiar with either of you. I mean no offense by that, and I&#39;ll keep an eye out to read your comments from now one. I think you&#39;ve posted some quality stuff in this forum without stooping to the petty arguments other are prone to. That said, oisin5199 has been posting for as long as I&#39;ve been here and he/she has consistently been on point. As such, I think he/she&#39;s ready to take the next step. Don&#39;t worry though, the land of the PZ will one day be open to all Aint It Coolers. Until then, keep it shiny.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 2:32 p.m. CST

    Absolutely none taken

    by sabrefox

    Just envious. And no explanation required either. Even in my short time here, oisin5199 has been just as you described. And I&#39;m not just saying that cause we appear to be on the same side of the issue here. I&#39;m much more comfortable with a civil discussion (no name calling, insults, mutual respect, etc...) of the merits, or lack thereof, of the movie than trying to dodge the anti-Browncoat posts like the Serenity dodging Alliance warships. If oisin5199&#39;s post in here are any representation of his history, I&#39;m sure he is well deserving.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 2:33 p.m. CST


    by Harlow

    I have been to many large cities (in fact I live in one) and I have yet to be in a bar that looked like a cave. To be the bar set looked like what it was...a bar set. That was my nit pick, but overall I loved the movie. But just because I love something doesn&#39;t mean I am blind to its weaknesses (my wife is hot as hell but there&#39;s a bump on the bridge of her nose...I can live with that). Hotroq (the banned poster) was talking about sets, specifically the corridor and I brought up the bar. The corridor didn&#39;t bother me because I&#39;m unable to tell the difference between a movie corridor and a TV corridor...and maybe cause my eyes were watering a little ("He ain&#39;t coming. Damn.) And Zoe&#39;s reaction was spot on and my favorite moment of a movie filled with great moments. I&#39;m going to see Serenity for the second time on Saturday with some Firefly virgins. Can&#39;t wait to take it in again.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 2:34 p.m. CST


    by MasterWhedon

    You and your wacky notions... There&#39;s no such thing as the Phantom Zone.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 2:41 p.m. CST

    Something occured to me about Mr Universe&#39;s location

    by sabrefox

    In most sci-fi movies, gaseous clouds of any sort (nebulas, the great cloudy cover of VGER in Star Trek, etc...) have usually interferred with energy transmissions, whether it be communications, sensor scans, or whatever. However here, on a planet apparently contained within such a cloud, there are no such limitations. Anyone have any thoughts?

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 2:47 p.m. CST

    It&#39;s simple really

    by Harlow

    I&#39;m thinking flying space monkey spread the signal. See they&#39;re not affected by nebulas and such.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 2:55 p.m. CST

    Oh, OK and I guess the planet is really a huge black hole,

    by sabrefox

    since every signal in the &#39;verse manages to find it&#39;s way there? See you anti-Whedon mongers, I don&#39;t think the man is infallible. Now that I think about Mr. Universe, how improbable is it that there is one person in the &#39;verse who is privey to every transmission made? Sure, maybe he has lots of friends in high places who can get him what he wants, but his electromagnetic omnipotence (hmmm, like the sound of that) is a bit far-fatched. Is he some sort of signal super-hacker Comments?

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 2:57 p.m. CST

    Uncle Orson

    by DarthBen

    I may be coming late to the party on this one, but did anybody read that Orson Scott Card review of Serenity? Man, Serenity has a hard time even with the blessings of one of the Masters. Well, I&#39;m doing my part to earn my brown coat. I&#39;ve got the word out to friends and family, I&#39;ve got quite a few signed up for this weekend. Oh, and as to the Mr. Universe planet/cloud etc. It was probably there just so Whedon could do that awesome reveal of the Reaver ships following Serenity.

  • If that&#39;s the only purpose for the cloud, it works for me. Seeing all those vessels coming through at once is indeed awesome. :) Good call. BTW, I put the link at the end of my very first post above. I meant to repost it with a title that brought more attention to it, but I kinda forgot. Thanks for the help.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 3:01 p.m. CST

    Can&#39;t Stop the Signal

    by DarthBen

    Sabrefox, I think the point was that all transmissions, all signals, are sent out and can be intercepted. Universe is not so much a hacker as he is a giant radio reciever. Oh, hey, also, this may be really a dumb question, but is Mr. Universe code for Universal, as in studios? One last question, for any takers, Did it bother anybody that Mr. Universe got a funeral along with Wash and Book? Didn&#39;t it kinda take away from their deaths?

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 3:05 p.m. CST

    I don&#39;t think it diminished

    by sabrefox

    their deaths, though I can see your point. It&#39;s not like he was one of the crew, but he was instrumental in helping them figure out what/who triggered River, and in getting the message from Miranda out (letting Mal know about the backup transmitter). They couldn&#39;t have done it without him.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 3:05 p.m. CST

    "is Mr. Universe code for Universal, as in studios?"

    by ZombieSolutions

    i did&#39;nt think of that, but it makes sense. i think alot of the subtext for the film was "hey, we&#39;re the scrappy fighters who got our movie made despite stinky FOX canceling our show! take that jerks!" the more i think about it, the more i love it. i&#39;d like to buy the DVDs too, but i&#39;m poor at the moment...

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 3:07 p.m. CST

    by Harlow

    I figured Mr. Universe got honored by being buried next to Book and Wash because of some past adventure we weren&#39;t privy to. Could be wrong. But we&#39;ve seen such a short period of this crew&#39;s life, I would like to think they had many adventures before and after Firefly and Serenity.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Good point, Harlow

    by sabrefox

    They obviously knew how to get a hold of him pretty easily and he seemed to have a pretty comfortable dialogue with them (meantioning his wedding to the "bride").

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 3:21 p.m. CST


    by sabrefox

    that might be true greatn. Perhaps that flies in the face of the previous idea that Mr. Universe was a long term companion of Mal&#39;s, or perhaps he just had to appear to switch sides, knowing full well that Mal would read him correctly.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 3:24 p.m. CST

    Of Canceled Shows and Comebacks...

    by DarthBen

    I&#39;m sitting here in LA, unemployed, lurking around on the net. Behind me, the Sci Fi Channel is playing a marathon of Kolchak: The Night Stalker. Funny how a series can come and go in an instant, and despite how depressing it seems, the good shows always stick around for multiple generations. I&#39;m hoping the same will hold true for Serenity/Firefly.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 3:37 p.m. CST


    by Billyeveryteen

    Ya, why did the men of peace have to die? Outlived their usefulness?

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 3:39 p.m. CST


    by optimus122

    Was mondays box office for Serenity..the top spot went to flight plan at 1.04 or some thing like that..certainly 25 million domestic is about what it may end up with...maybe not even..if all the rest of the world does 25 million and dvd sales are huge Universal may break even.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 3:51 p.m. CST

    Thanks greatn

    by Juggernaut125

    With that question, I just aged about 20 years. Barney Miller was a sitcom about a police station. Barney was played by Hal Holbrook. Another more recognizable cast member other than Ron Glass was Abe Vagoda as "Fish" (which spawned its own spinoff show). Their comedy was mainly deadpan. And a fair comparison would be Night Court. Similar styles. And the opening theme for Barney Miller had some kickass bass, if I recall.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 3:52 p.m. CST

    The main reason Star Wars fan bash this movie....

    by Razorback

    Is because Browncoats ran around bashing the prequels and Lucas for the past few years. Oh, and loving Empire Strikes Back and maybe the original Star Wars doesn&#39;t make you a Star Wars fan. It makes you a fan of two of six movies. I love Wrath of Khan, does that make me a Star Trek fan? Nope. So, if Serenity is getting ass-rammed by Star Wars fans then it is simple payback. Hell, I have seen Serenity three times now, and I dig the movie, but I don&#39;t feel sorry for any Browncoat made to feel miserable after all the shit they did over the past few years to Star Wars fans.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 3:53 p.m. CST

    Old 70&#39;s cop comedy with Hal Linden and Abe "I&#39;m not dea

    by ComputerGuy68

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 4:23 p.m. CST

    What this talkback needs is...

    by seppukudkurosawa

    a good old-fashioned coup de gras.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 5:17 p.m. CST

    Serenity/Firefly Questions, help!

    by warp11

    Serenity was cool. The movie made up for a lot of the short comings of the TV show. Where Firefly only talked about Reevers, they were really prevelant in the film. I guess the dude&#39;s with the blue hands were cyborgs and they got killed in the Firefly comic. The film played like a lot of other Joss Weedon stuff. Sometimes his characters are too big of smart asses and it kills their character development. SPOILERS! Question time! 1.Why kill off the pilot guy? I see how that had the effect on his wife where she got a little too gun ho which made the crazy sister get all Lelu 5th element like, but was it nesscary

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 9:38 p.m. CST

    oh just go see it.

    by TodayzSpecial

    go the first time ... go again ... People need to support good movies. This was definitely better than most the poop that&#39;s been out there this year.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 10:12 p.m. CST

    The ship was able to be repaired because the Operative paid for

    by Lenny Nero

    It&#39;s in the dialogue in his last scene with Mal. As for the deaths, I think they make sense, and certainly Book&#39;s death pushes Mal&#39;s decision to go to Miranda. He said he needed something to get the Alliance off his back because it was wreaking so much havoc on his crew, his boat and himself. That&#39;s what I take from it, at least. I hear you slightly on the "Why would Jayne follow Mal through Reaver territory," but since he got beat up by River, maybe he was feeling a little humility? As for Zoe&#39;s reaction to Wash&#39;s death, I could have used a little bit more, but I understand her reaction all the same. Just a couple lines of dialogue would be nice.

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 10:13 p.m. CST

    I dunno, todayzspecial. I kinda like poop.

    by Lenny Nero

  • Oct. 4, 2005, 10:25 p.m. CST

    Did Orson Scott Card really just compare SERENITY to FRIENDS?

    by Lenny Nero

    Ouch. Then again, he did compare it to HAMLET and LOST--though those obviously aren&#39;t on the same level--and likened Whedon somewhat to Shakespeare himself. Good stuff.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 1:01 a.m. CST

    To All Who Are Surprised or Disheartened by the Negative Reactio

    by Red Ned Lynch

    Let me start out by saying that I consider seasons 2, 3, and 5 of Buffy, and seasons 3, 4, and the last half of season 5 of Angel to be absolutely wonderful television. I not only love sci-fi, I love westerns. And I was pretty excited about Firefly. I watched it, too, sticking with it right through to the bitter end. wasn

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 1:02 a.m. CST

    To All Who Are Surprised or Disheartened by the Negative Reactio

    by Red Ned Lynch

    Okay. No harm no foul, some folks like it some folks don

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 1:03 a.m. CST

    To All Who Are Surprised or Disheartened by the Negative Reactio

    by Red Ned Lynch

    I sort of contrast my reaction to what followed, on this site and several others, with my reaction to the Farscape people when their show got cancelled. I never got into Farscape (never gave it a chance, some mix of the muppets and an ad inspired fear of getting Lexed), but I immediately felt their pain. The thing they

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 1:04 a.m. CST

    And the Lesson?

    by Red Ned Lynch

    When Land of the Dead came out the reviews were terrific. And I saw it opening weekend and worked feverishly to convince myself that it was a masterwork, as fiercely groundbreaking as Night or Dawn. Man I love those movies, loved them so much growing up. Saw it twice, hoped against hope for twenty million, or even fifteen. Man, that Monday box office was like a punch to the gut. For a few days I even worked hard to convince myself that the box office would hold steady or maybe even build a little on word of mouth (hey, Dawn played midnight shows to full houses for years), or that Romero had just jumped too far ahead of the mainstream again, had kept himself on the margins by virtue of artistic vision. But you know what? Truth was, Romero had made an okay little zombie movie in a saturated market. The good reviews weren

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 1:14 a.m. CST

    Serenity (Spoilers inside)

    by Capt. Spaulding

    I saw this movie today, having never watched a single episode of the TV show and I must say I rather liked it. (Please bear in mind that I never cared for Buffy). SPOILERS: Towards the end, when people were dying, I found myself thinking, "Does anybody get out of this movie?" a rare thought. One I probably haven&#39;t had since Alien. As for Land of the Dead, I&#39;m waiting to see it unrated on DVD, to see Romero&#39;s uncompromised version before making my final judgement. I liked what I saw in the theater, but it did feel truncated. That is all.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 6:20 a.m. CST

    Well said, Red Ned Lynch

    by Razorback

    I have said much the same in this and other threads. However, you said it better. :)

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 6:23 a.m. CST

    A Wheedon Fan...

    by napalm68

    I&#39;m a big fan of Wheedon&#39;s. I have everything of his available on DVD. I&#39;m however going to wait for the DVD on this one. And the whole browncoat self-labelling is just plain embarassing, and offputting. I get put off by rabid fanatics of any sort, whether entertainment, political, religious, even evolutionists. I don&#39;t care what pushes your buttons, what you feel strongly about, and I resent the arrogance of people who don&#39;t understand or respect the ability of other people to be left alone and have their own thoughs and values. And that includes the poocoats.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 8:02 a.m. CST

    Barney Miller...

    by MaguaSynfield

    ...was played by Hal Linden, not Hal Holbrook. And its pretty damned funny.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 8:47 a.m. CST

    A Whedon Fan...

    by MaguaSynfield

    Ah, please don&#39;t let a crew of over-zealous, immature knuckle-walkers keep you away from this film. It needs your support - if you&#39;re an admirer of Whedon&#39;s stuff, you deserve to see it get the big screen treatment. If we don&#39;t support good stuff like Serenity, we&#39;ll just get more crap remakes. You didn&#39;t say if you were watching Firefly, but as a fan of Whedon&#39;s it&#39;s a decent guess that you were - go see Serenity to support the cast, the characters, the idea that great Sci-Fi doesn&#39;t have to be bugged eyed aliens (although I like those too) over-cgi-ed, bloated kark ( although those can be fun, too) or loud, stupid ripoffs. Screw the fanboys, not the film.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 8:48 a.m. CST


    by ZombieSolutions

    well said, Red Ned, about Land of the Dead (and Serenity). i loved LOTD, but it wasn&#39;t as good as the originals. it was more like, "cool! Romero is back!" it felt rushed (which i believe it was). however, i think it deserved the good reviews. i loved it myself, but it wasn&#39;t the EPIC i wanted either. it was a cool movie, but too short. i&#39;m very much looking forward to the uncut DVD release. two more weeks, right? sweeet.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 8:51 a.m. CST

    Obvious Points?

    by emvan

    I&#39;m not going to read the whole talkback, but in case you&#39;ve already come to the same conclusions I have, you can feel better about them. 1) The TV ads were awful (thought so at the time) and are largely responsible for the disappointing gross. Hopefully, word of mouth will give it some unexpected legs. 2) The widespread "this is good, but not great", ***, 7/10 or 8/10 reactions are perfectly reasonable, but inevitably fail to take into account the fact that the movie itself improves tremendously with a second viewing. When I saw the preview, I thought it merely edged the pilot as the best Firefly ep. I was moved to tears by my second viewing -- and not because of the tragic stuff, but by River&#39;s transformation and triumph. For my money, "My turn" is the sf equivalent of "Hey, Boo."

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 8:55 a.m. CST

    People, Enough Of The "You&#39;re Not A Real Fan" Nonsense

    by ZombieSolutions

    if being a fan means being a drooling psychopath with no critical faculties, and no sense of perspective, then fuck it, i&#39;m not a fan of anything. perspective people, catch it. ______ SERENITY was really cool, i dug it lots, but it was NOT the divine apotheosis the "browncoats" kept saying it was. i don&#39;t know what made you all lose your minds, but i think your over-the-top wackiness just freaked people the fuck out. if i was Whedon, i would make a very special episode of Buffy where fans of a fictional sci-fi franchise unwittedly ruin their favorite shows chances for success by taking it too far... like sacrificing children on the alter at a convention or something; or assasinating a film critic who only gave it 3.5 stars instead of 5 (out of a possible 4 stars)...

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 9:19 a.m. CST

    For my money, "My turn" is the sf equivalent of "Hey, Boo."

    by MaguaSynfield

    Good shot. Agreed. That was a really nice moment in a film that had several. ZombieSolutions, you must have a death wish. These people cannot be reasoned with - if they are sooo bloody stoopid that they don&#39;t understand they are WRECKING THE FILMS CHANCES by being slobbering droids, they aren&#39;t going to listen to reasonable thought of any kind. Keep your eyes peeled, dude. They are out there, in more ways than one...

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 10:05 a.m. CST

    the Browncoat straw man

    by oisin5199

    People go on about the drooling fanaticism of the Browncoats, but I really haven&#39;t seen any evidence of that here, besides the occasional troll like Tonay (who I didn&#39;t believe for a second was a real Browncoat). If you went to a preview screening and were surrounded by them, well that&#39;s called a group mentality and people are bound to be idiots, same as going to Rocky Horror or a sporting event. Seeing a community bonding together and not feeling a part of it is probably going to raise some feelings of antipathy - you must insult the group so that you can reestablish your individuality. I really think that&#39;s what the Browncoat bashing really is. I went to a surreal academic conference on Buffy and at the main banquet evening, there was a sing-along with some guy around a piano playing the musical. 300 or so academics (some needed lyrics sheets and many didn&#39;t) singing Buffy songs is just plain weird, but fun (The women especially seemed to really enjoy singing Spike&#39;s parts). If I was there and wasn&#39;t a Buffy fan, I would have felt awfully uncomfortable. So I feel your pain. And I still say that avoiding something, or dismissing something out of hand, because you don&#39;t like its fans shows some pretty weak character.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 10:30 a.m. CST

    Barney Miller - I&#39;m not that old

    by oisin5199

    I remember Barney Miller quite vividly. Hal Linden was the straight man and lead. Ron Glass had a huge fro, and he played the smart (but kinda gay) one. And there was Abe Vigoda and the balding guy who was the "good cop" and the Chinese guy who always seemed stoned, and they all drank a lot of coffee in mugs. It was part of that classic Maileresque 70&#39;s sitcom genre with very few sets, low lighting, applause at the end of scenes, and pre-PC (which meant unafraid to tackle social and racial issues, even naively, in a sitcom).

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 11:55 a.m. CST

    And the battle continues...

    by DarthBen

    Wow, just checkin in today. It seems that the war of words continues. Why won&#39;t geeks just go see this movie? Critics dig the film, it can&#39;t be that bad. Herc should figure out a way to broker a truce among the Geeks. For every Trekker who goes to see Serenity, a Browncoat will likewise buy the (omigod, can&#39;t believe they reissued this, did anybody ask for this) special edition DVD of Star Trek Nemesis. Likewise, for every hardcore Star Wars geek (do they have a special name?) who sees this flick, a Browncoat will buy a DVD of The Ewok Adventure.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 12:55 p.m. CST

    all I&#39;m saying

    by oisin5199

    is that if I was surrounded by a group of people who were REALLY into something and I wasn&#39;t, it would make me feel really uncomfortable. What a person decides to do with that is up to them. Choosing to insult them is one way to handle it, albeit juvenile. And certainly both sides can act like playground idiots - our franchise can beat up your franchise, nyaa-nyaa! I just don&#39;t see the point in continuing any of this kind of behavior - baiting and hating only makes it worse. Kai, if you&#39;ve read my previous posts, you&#39;d know my praise of Joss is perfectly sane - I&#39;ve constantly called Tonay on his hyperbolic Joss-praising to the detriment of everything else. I love everything Whedon, but also love many, many other things.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 1:26 p.m. CST

    I like Firefly & Serenity, I like all things Star Trek

    by jim

    I like the Star Wars movies (the earlier 3 more than the recent 3; not too fond of the Ewok Adventure), I like The Matrix movies (the first one more than the recent 2), I like Lord of the Rings, I like the recent movies they did for Spider-man, Batman, X-men, I&#39;m looking forward to both X3 and Superman Returns. Is this wrong? Am I supposed to pick just one and define myself accordingly?

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 1:49 p.m. CST

    Yes, even Voyager

    by jim

    Maybe I&#39;m just very easy to please.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 1:58 p.m. CST

    Big Jim

    by MaguaSynfield

    "Am I supposed to pick just one and define myself accordingly?" Only according to sound perfectly sane to me ( on the relative scale). You&#39;re a proper fan of the genre. No further maintenance required...

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 2:43 p.m. CST

    Big Jim&#39;s a man of reason

    by DarthBen

    See, that&#39;s all I&#39;m saying. All geeks (and if you&#39;re posting here at AICN, you are a geek, plain and true) should give geek films support. Especially the good ones. There is room for those of us who love Star Wars, Star Trek, The Matrix, LOTR, Harry Potter, Narnia, Farscape, Battle Star Galactica, and Firefly. Oh, and by the way, the Cast of Voyager was out of control. Look, after the pilot, I never tuned back in. You know why? TNG was plenty PC, but I could take it. I could get a shakesperean diplomat captain. But Voyager? Let&#39;s go through the Political Correct version of a Trek Cast: Woman Captain, Native American First Officer, African American Vulcan, Spanish-American Klingon....need I go on? I&#39;m all for diversity, but let&#39;s at least keep some intellectual honesty...

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Sure, even Chakotay

    by jim

    Although I would like to forget that episode where he was hallucinating and thought he was a boxer. DarthBen, being PC was Trek&#39;s thing, even back during the original series when being PC wasn&#39;t PC. But Voyager came out at the height of the PC craze, so it was PC to the extreme. It was around this same time that the mayor of Toronto banned The Bare Naked Ladies from playing on city property because, apparently, their name is sexist.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 3:08 p.m. CST

    speaking of Voyager

    by oisin5199

    how cool would it have been if Voyager had been more like Galactica and had ongoing tensions between the Feds and the Maquis? There were a few token references but the integration of the ship happened so quickly and it was like that plot point had never existed. Or how cool would it have been if that Year in Hell story arc (where main cast members died, Tuvok was blinded and Voyager regularly got the crap beat out of it like it was a Reaver ship) would have been what actually happened, not just wiped away with a magical reset button? I guess it&#39;s not surprising that show lacked balls, considering it was the first network Trek show (besides TOS) and was the flagship show for the new network.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 3:10 p.m. CST

    excellent point

    by DarthBen

    Well taken. I guess that&#39;s why I love me some Serenity. Fist fights and cannibals and rebels and space hookers. Pretty Un-PC.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 3:51 p.m. CST

    Kai, you&#39;re not the only person arguing, but you&#39;re the

    by Lenny Nero

    Please please please just state your peace and leave so we can have some civility. Just a request.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 3:53 p.m. CST

    I&#39;m with Big Man "The Amazing Man of Reason"

    by Thorfin

    I welcome all good science fiction and fantasy - and some of the not-so-good - and I welcome all the thin-skinned talkbackers to entertain me.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 4:14 p.m. CST

    I never saw the show -- Thought the movie was pretty good

    by TrueLies

    I never saw the show. Was lurking around AICN and heard about the movie. DVR&#39;d two shows on TV and decided I would see the movie. Besides, it has (sigh...) Jewel Staite (/sigh...) in it. How was the movie? I enjoyed it. My 12 year old son enjoyed it. The plot was interesting, and neither cliched nor insipid. The special effects didn&#39;t distract from enjoying the movie ("Gee look at that preview, Narnia looks just like Rohan"). A lot of stuff in movies and TV is underlit because the sets and makeup would look like crap in bright light. I thought this was OK. My son predicted some of the plot turns. The movie theater had less than 20 people in in it (Saturday afternoon). The newspaper advertising for the movie is embarassing -- on par with "A Sound of Thunder". I certainly wouldn&#39;t have thought about seeing the movie based on print ads that talk about "Fans driving hundreds of miles to see special premieres of the film". I read Movie Mom&#39;s review where she called it a very entertaining movie. It was likely that she didn&#39;t bring any sci-fi/fantasy baggage with her and viewed it on its own merits. To me that was a more valuable plug than reading about 500,000 people buying the DVD of the show. SPOILER ----->>>> As a dramatic device, I though having several major characters die was a good turn. It got me thinking, "Who else isn&#39;t going to make it out of here?" I saw Star Wars the weekend it opened. When the Destroyer comes overhead in the opening scene, I thought, "That&#39;s really cool, I&#39;ve never seen that before." These days, with enough money, a director can put anything on screen. If there isn&#39;t enough imagination, it usually isn&#39;t worth watching. (Mmmmm... like the four most recent Star Wars movies.) This movie had some imagination and originality. Serenity was entertaining, I don&#39;t regret seeing it, I&#39;m glad I saw it, I&#39;ll tell my friends I saw it, but it isn&#39;t a great movie. Although the characters were a little quippy in their dialogue, I would rather listen to that then hear Natalie Portman say, "Ani, I want to have our baby on Naboo".

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 4:47 p.m. CST

    I saw a Browncoat having a Pina Colada at Trader Vic&#39;s

    by K-pobuibo

    AAAAAooooooooooooooooooooo Browncoats of Serenity!

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 5:43 p.m. CST

    Draw Blood

    by Shermdawg

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 6:01 p.m. CST

    i love firefly and serenity.

    by mocky_puppet

    i am building a full-scale air-worthy version of serenity to live in and use to get to work. i loved the series and the movie. TrueLies, i think you are my father-in-law--he said the same thing about seeing star wars when it came out in 77. get back to work, father-in-law!

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 6:08 p.m. CST

    Reality here: This movie has no legs in the US

    by Razorback

    I am sorry to say this, but this movie has no legs. It is the only movie in the top 20 that has been dropping every day, not gaining. Every movie in the top 20 gained money on Tuesday (over Monday) except for Serenity. The same goes for Saturday (from Friday). It will probably make $5 million this coming weekend, and top off at $24 million. With DVD sales expected to probably make around 1 million units (based on Firefly sales, currently at around 500,000) the movie will barely make back its cost (unless overseas numbers are huge, of course).

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 6:26 p.m. CST

    Hey Black Pot! Let me introduce you to Mr. Kettle

    by Mick The Knife

    I am a Browncoat, in the sense that the name means "Firefly/Serenity fan". What I don&#39;t get is how the general Talkback crowd around here can look at some mouthy posters, and just assume Browncoat means "loudmouth overzealous assface". The vast majority of Firefly/Serenity fans I&#39;ve met are polite, tolerant, and *gasp!* fans of other shows/films/books/etc. It&#39;s a sign of how pathetic the Talkbacks can be when I hear everyone overgeneralizing in here. People can be assfaces. Groups are diverse. Maybe before you start belittling groups of fandom, you should take a hard look at what you&#39;re doing. Of course, maybe you enjoy belittling people for your amusement. In which case... Mr. Mirror, meet Mr. Assface.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 6:39 p.m. CST


    by optimus122

    The firefly DVD has sold around a million copies not 500 thousand ( it was at over 200,000 when the movie was green lighted over 16 months ago and its been selling like mad ever since especially in the last 2 months) , the Serenity dvd will sell 4 times that many..When the movie Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind was released last year it made 8 million dollars in its first weekend in the theaters..Big bust yes? Well in its first week of dvd sales , it sold 1.5 MILLION COPIES. Just in the first week. DVD sales will be HUGE for Serenity , your guesstimate is way low. World wide box office for serenity , will probably be 40 million or so. Add in dvd sales and tv rights , your looking at a slim profit and more firefly down the road though hopefully not in the movies.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 6:57 p.m. CST


    by Razorback

    Care to post proof of the 1 million? Because USA Today said it was 500,000 a week ago.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 7:05 p.m. CST

    yeah, it will probably make a small profit somehow

    by Rupee88

    The movie studios have a monopoly and all kinds of ways to milk profits from the revenue stream. This is a flop, but not one as bad as "The Island". It will make back its money and Whedon won&#39;t have as much egg on his face. I haven&#39;t seen the movie, but the trailer was a turnoff and I love sci-fi. I guess I&#39;ll rent (or download) this eventually and at least give it a chance.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 8:07 p.m. CST

    That&#39;s funny.

    by Juggernaut125

    "It&#39;s a sign of how pathetic the Talkbacks can be when I hear everyone overgeneralizing in here. People can be assfaces." Nice. That brought a smile to my face. Thanks Mick. And thanks to Magua for the correction. My bad.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 8:27 p.m. CST

    All this nonsense

    by nexus420

    In my, oh so worthless, opinion the majority of people using these TBs are waaay too passionate about, of all the crazy things, the other idiots (myself included) who write on this thing. My feeling is that movies are supposed to entertain at the very least, and encourage you to think about something in a new way at most. To allow a small minority of rabid fans, and EQUALLY rabid haters of said fans, to influence your opinion on this, or any, movie is just silly. That said...I am a moderate fan of Whedon, I started watching Angel in its 4th? season, and never really got into Buffy. (Although I do enjoy some of the more unique episodes, Once More With Feeling eg) I never saw Firefly when it was on, Thank You Fox, but I got a hold of the episodes this summer and loved them. So I had high hopes for Serenity. I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. It is far from perfect though. Whedon had a tough task, make a film that die-hards will enjoy, as well as newbies. Not an easy thing to try and accomplish. Overall, I&#39;d say he did much better than the average hollywood director/writer could have done. I too, felt that some of the key scenes felt rushed. The scenes between Mal and Inara leap to mind. The fact that Harry? believed they were former lovers (which they were never said to be in the series, just a lot of sexual tension) tells me that they tried too hard to get some of those character relationships accross. This is why the concept will always work better on TV. There is simply more time to be able to devote to character development. TV is starting to move that way, with shows like 24, and Lost(which I haven&#39;t seen) stretching plot lines out over seasons. Even QT said he really liked making that 2-hour season finale for CSI, and wanted to do more TV. Universal just needs to green light a new season on SCI-FI and see how its ratings go....that way the fans get what they want, and the movie buffs on here can stop hearing about Whedon outside of coax. :) Oh, and what does Kevin Smith think about Serenity, I haven&#39;t seen a response from him about it? Have fun all, life&#39;s too short not too.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 8:50 p.m. CST


    by Razorback

    I am Icelandic, and live in the NYC area. I have never been to Arkansas. As for the 500k.... Firefly was selling well on Amazon. That site doesn&#39;t represent the majority of DVD sales in the world. :) In any event, everywhere I look it seems that 500,000 is a number quoted, and the only place I see 1 million is on some Browncoat site.

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 9:25 p.m. CST

    woah woah woah...wait a mean to tell me that a fil

    by slappy jones

    are you kidding me??...I never saw that coming......

  • Oct. 5, 2005, 10:35 p.m. CST

    On Amazon sales

    by Bass Ackwards

    Amazon sales accounts for less than 10% of the total market of any given product, so while selling well on amazon is a good indication of the habits of the internet community, it is not at all representative of actual sales. For example, while Amazon&#39;s top 2 selling CDs last year were also top 5 albums on Billboard&#39;s chart, their #3 selling album, Ray Charles, was #51, and their #4, Diana Krall was #101. And I&#39;ll just add from what I&#39;ve read here that 500,000 sounds much more reasonable than 1 million. 200,000 in first 6 months, or selling strong upon release to its fanbase makes sense, but DVDs don&#39;t have repeat audiences and such, so after the fan base has purchased their copies, sales fall. To sell 800,000 in the next 16 months you&#39;re saying not only did sales not fall, they dramatically increased, which for a box set of a little seen cancelled sci-fi television show would be extremely unlikely, even with word of mouth and a movie announcement. There may have been a bump when commercials and press started up, but nowhere near what&#39;s being suggested here. I&#39;d be much more inclined to believe reported figures of 500,000 than speculation on what the DVD sales might have done in the last 16 months (and keep in mind, for what the show is, 500,000 is still an impressive number).

  • Oct. 6, 2005, 12:45 a.m. CST

    Looking forward to the upcoming

    by Subversive01057

    ...<i>Serenity</i> computer game.

  • Oct. 6, 2005, 5:16 a.m. CST


    by optimus122

    Sorry I don&#39;t know m8 , it was over 200,000 in the first 6 months then only 300,000 for the next 16 months? Word of mouth , being a top 10 or 20 seller on amazon for a long ass time , 500,000 is low. I agree though either way 500,000 is a great figure for a tv show series that was on for a few months. I guess it really doesn&#39;t matter what the totals are as it did end up getting the movie made. Its too bad that it was way to early in this franchises lifetime to be able to support a movie with a 60 million dollar production/advertisement budget. It needed a lot more exposure , book sales , more time on sci fi and maybe syndicated to other stations like FX or TNT , spike etc. I do think the dvd of the movie will end up making universal back their money. If thats true it will be money well spent.

  • Oct. 6, 2005, 11:56 a.m. CST

    For all the box office arguments, the numbers matter much less t

    by oisin5199

    Read this article from msn: and the that&#39;s the last thing I&#39;ll say about box office. I finally a saw a second week ad for Serenity with the critical reviews - you know, "Ebert and Roeper give it two thumbs up" and a quote from the NY times comparing it to the original Star Wars. Hopefully people will respond to these ads this weekend. But even if it doesn&#39;t, Joss will continue to get Hollywood work - the studio was very impressed by the quality film he turned in on time and within budget, if not by the returns. But I&#39;m not worried - he&#39;ll get more work and more than likely, a sequel or two. and Kai, aren&#39;t you over it yet?!

  • Oct. 6, 2005, 2:37 p.m. CST

    Master Whedon, I&#39;m still waiting for the Mothership!

    by oisin5199

    My ride to the phantom zone is running late.

  • Oct. 6, 2005, 4 p.m. CST

    um, who&#39;s not walking away?

    by oisin5199

    The only reason people keep responding to you is that you keep posting! And saying the same thing over and over! I don&#39;t think any of your recent posts have been about anything but recapping the history of your posts.

  • Oct. 6, 2005, 4:04 p.m. CST

    Kai, it&#39;s "state your peace," and second of all, shhhhhhhhhh

    by Lenny Nero

    It must be tiring to obsessively write that much. Just be positive. Nobody likes a Grumpy Gus.

  • Oct. 6, 2005, 4:04 p.m. CST

    Right, because USA Today is the height of American journalism.

    by Lenny Nero

  • Oct. 6, 2005, 5:17 p.m. CST

    Battered Wife Syndrome...

    by B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

    Guys, guys, guys! Come on! Get over it already! I like Firefly too, but it just wasn&#39;t meant to be. I went through the same thing a year ago with Sky Captain and, as painful as it was, I resigned myself to the fact that there wouldn&#39;t be a sequel no matter how much I denied it. Serenity failed, plain and simple. Buy the DVD when it comes out and enjoy it to the fullest just as I&#39;ve enjoyed the Sky Captain DVD. But you sound like a battered wife when you keep trying to put a positive spin on the dismal box-office and Kai just keeps bitch-slapping you and baits you into another cycle of denial. Keep what dignity you have left and just accept the Firefly movie that nobody thought would ever get made in the first place. "It is... inevitable..."

  • Oct. 6, 2005, 5:27 p.m. CST

    I still like the 500,000 figure

    by Bass Ackwards

    its not that low, consider 200,000 in 6 months is around 34,000 units a month, 300,000 over the last 16 is then 18,000 per month (or something of a more reasonable drop off rate of 34,000 units, 30,000 units, etc - not intended to describe an actual rate of decrease, just illustrating the point). DVD sales are just like any other sales entertainment product, it sells strongly when it comes out, and then drops off the longer its out. Word of mouth may make sales stronger, but its a vast overestimation to think word of mouth would accomplish the task of increasing sales to such an extent as suggeested, especially considering the absence of advertising or any kind of consistent national awareness (like still being on the air), I know there&#39;s a big belief that Firefly has this powerful word of mouth, and it may in fact, but its very unlikely that any kind of word of mouth for such a small market item could cause it to not simply overperform, as it did that, but to outright defy the market. Consider the modest box office performance last weekend, which not only had strong word of mouth, but public, national awareness, nationally good reviews, commercials, and also a focused word of mouth developed from Universal&#39;s calculated sneak-preview strategy, and the movie still underperformed, so the idea that the DVD performed against the market norm with the kind of abstract word of mouth coming from fans and nothing else is hard to swallow. And DVD sales aren&#39;t hidden, they simply aren&#39;t published like Box Office, but anyone who wishes to see the figures, including journalists, can request them. And it may very well be that you heard 500,000 several months ago AND that its still an accurate figure now, I think you guys are still overestimating how quickly this is flying of the shelves (and remember, again, Amazon accounts for such a small percentage of the national and global market, that its not representative of actual trends or habits, consider not one of amazons top 5 CDs last week are in Billboards top 100). Considering where sales are this far after release, its not at all unlikely to have had 500,000 several months ago, or slightly under, and something like 530,000, or 550,000 now.

  • Oct. 6, 2005, 5:42 p.m. CST

    State your "piece"...

    by B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

    Well, you learn something new every day! officially has it as "state your piece". I thought that it was "peace", but it isn&#39;t. Kai is correct although common folk tend to mix up the two...

  • Oct. 6, 2005, 6:20 p.m. CST

    B.NyeTheUruk-Hai - your name made me laugh

    by jim

    That&#39;s a good one

  • Oct. 6, 2005, 6:45 p.m. CST

    We can agree

    by optimus122

    To disagree , like you said even if your right 500,000 is a lot of sales for a tv season series movie set of a cancelled niche sci fi tv show that was on for 2 or 3 months 3 years ago. Oh , like I said above in a post , Jim Carreys sappy love story was #7 in its opening weekend making only 8 million dollars and yet it sold 1.5 million dvd&#39;s in its first week so comparing this weeks box office for serenity to dvd sales of firefly is not a valid comparison.I would need to see where USA today got its numbers from to see how reliable that total is as I have seen usually reliable internet sources say 200,000 and 1 million and 1.2 million and 120,000 etc..I see a completely different total everywhere i go. Either way , it was apparently enough for universal to green light a movie of a failed tv show. That doesn&#39;t happen all to often.

  • Oct. 6, 2005, 6:45 p.m. CST


    by oisin5199

  • Oct. 6, 2005, 6:49 p.m. CST

    the inevitable

    by oisin5199

    Why are people so insistent on burying this thing? Or better yet, why are people so concerned that others don&#39;t want to bury it? If everyone thought that, this movie would have never gotten made. "The show was canceled, it failed, give it up." If you think it&#39;s delusional fine, but others are free to "keep flyin". And no one&#39;s getting bitch slapped here as far as I can tell, at least not by a blathering whiner like Kai.

  • Oct. 6, 2005, 7:03 p.m. CST

    Say my name, beeyatch !!!

    by B.NyeTheUruk-Hai

    Yeah, you like that, don&#39;t you? You like that, don&#39;t you, Big Jim? Yeah, I&#39;ll bet that I know why they call you "Big" Jim. Say my name if you like it so much... SAY MY NAME, BEEYATCH! Don&#39;t mind me, I&#39;m just getting off a 10-hour work day. I need a nap...

  • Oct. 6, 2005, 11:29 p.m. CST

    intelligence and posts

    by oisin5199

    I think if the casual talkback reader compared my posts with Kai&#39;s, they would clearly see who has much less space between their ears, especially when one of us actually talked about the movie while the other just bitched about getting interrupted, again and again, without anything actually substantive to add the conversation. And I&#39;m only continuing to post because it&#39;s fun to watch you sputter. Really, continue with your oh-so-clever insults. I could use a good laugh.

  • Oct. 7, 2005, 4:32 a.m. CST

    First 9 minutes online and legal

    by optimus122 GO WATCH IT IF YOU HAVE TIME

  • Oct. 7, 2005, 7:49 a.m. CST

    Liked it a LOT

    by M-T-M

    I like Whedon. He

  • Oct. 7, 2005, 5:07 p.m. CST

    .....take a class in sarcasm you twat.

    by Billyeveryteen

    Hahahaha...<sniff> That&#39;s comedy gold.

  • Oct. 7, 2005, 9:31 p.m. CST

    Can&#39;t stop, can you?

    by oisin5199

    You&#39;re still doing it. Just proving my point. Idiot.

  • Nov. 8, 2005, 10:20 a.m. CST

    Fashionably late? Did it do well enough to interest any of the n

    by leesheri

    I know Serenity didn&#39;t do as well as fans had hoped. Maybe it did well enough at the box office to peek the interest of say the Sci-Fi channel, and they will buy the rights to the show. A network that respects it for what it really is, a cleverly put together adventure with awesome characters and dialog, will turn this movie "flop" into an outstanding television series. One can only hope. ;) Fox really screwed this show over, and someone was interested enough to spend the money to make a movie out it. I think it did well enough in the box office and in its Firefly DVD sales to prove it isn&#39;t a money pit, and that there is a strong fan base. While I was happy to see Serenity back in the skies again the movie idea never flew well with me; though I did go see it a few times. An entire seasons worth of television shows in less than two hours? That had to rip Whedon apart. Come on Sci-Fi, buy the rights and put Whedon back to work. The movie probably brought in even more fans. Firefly can be a money maker. Take it from me, your average run of the mill Sci-Fi female fan.