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#19 | 9/21/05 | align=right> #4 |
(Click title to go directly to the review)
WOLVERINE #32
SEVEN SOLDIERS: MISTER MIRACLE #1
SUPREME POWER: HYPERION #1
DAY OF VENGEANCE #6
POLLY AND THE PIRATES #1
NEW AVENGERS #10
GREEN LANTERN CORPS: RECHARGE #1
BIG EYES FOR THE CAPE GUY presents: CANNON GOD EXAXXION: STAGE FOUR
CHEAP SHOTS!
@$$HOLE CASTING COUCH: G.I.JOE
WOLVERINE #32
Writer: Mark Millar
Artist: Kaare Andrews
Colorist: Jose Villarrubia
Publisher: Marvel Comics
Reviewed by Dave Farabee
This ish: Wolverine Vs. The Holocaust!!!
If I’m a little crass in summing it up, it’s because I found the comic a little crass in reading it.
WOLVERINE #32 is Mark Millar’s last issue on WOLVERINE, a run I’ve found sporadically enjoyable, sporadically excessive in the Mark Millar tradition. His final issue’s a one-shot and a bid for seriousness in lieu of the usual escapist carnage. It even closes with a remembrance of the recently-deceased Will Eisner and how he ended up shaping the story. If that’s not a shot at respectability then I don’t know what is.
The story takes place in the Sobibor concentration camp in Poland in 1942, a camp where an estimated 250,000 Jews were executed. The story’s narrated by the camp’s commandant, newly arrived to restore discipline, correct “embarrassingly low” extermination rates, and replace the former commandant who committed suicide. The commandant talks because Wolverine remains silent throughout. This was Eisner’s contribution, from a conversation he had with Millar several years back, the idea being to stave off the escapist nature of the superhero genre for a story with such serious portent. In other words, no, “Bub, you just killed yer last Jew!” one-liners.
But a story tied into such an event – without a doubt the most vile act of the 20th century – must by its very nature invite close reading and critical scrutiny, and so one has to ask whether it’s enough to hit the mute button on Wolverine in writing about it. We’ll come back to that.
The tone of the story is that of a “Twilight Zone-ish” fable, largely focused on vengeance and surprisingly little on justice. The visuals are by artistic chameleon Kaare Andrews, best known for his astounding HULK covers a few years ago and a very cartoony run on ULTIMATE X-MEN. It’s the one part of the book I found very winning. Steeped in haunting, inky shadows, Andrews’ stunningly expressive linework only occasionally veers into weirdly comical exaggeration and is impressively complimented by colorist Jose Villarrubia’s dirty-snow palette. Millar had some great art at his command, of that there’s no doubt.
So the camp’s new commandant encounters Wolverine as seemingly just another prisoner, and though the story feels about as close to being “in continuity” as Straczynski’s 9-11 Spider-Man story, Wolverine’s oft-mutable backstory has depicted him as active in World War II. For whatever reason, Wolverine’s in the closest thing he has to an iconic civilian look - the white wife-beater undershirt – but more troubling to the commandant is the fact that he just won’t die. When Wolverine silently refuses to work, he’s shot twice in the kneecaps, once in the head, and dumped in the ovens. But he keeps appearing (I guess his shirt regenerates too), tormenting the commandant with his very appearance and appearing ghost-like outside his window. For his efforts, he’s shot again and again. And bayoneted. And beheaded. And sent to the gas chambers.
But he keeps coming back, and while the story contrives events such that no one but the commandant seems to catch on to Wolverine’s Lazarus act, the commandant slowly finds himself being driven to madness. Could Wolverine have even been the cause of the previous commandant’s suicide?
So there’s our hero: so effective that he single-handedly makes a Nazi death camp…a little less productive. In the real world, yes, even that would be a victory of sorts, however pyrrhic. But Millar’s not playing in the real world – he’s got the playground of the Marvel Universe at his disposal – and to loose Wolverine with the sole goal of tormenting a single Nazi even as Jews are dying all around him…I can’t see it as anything but pointlessly exploitational. In its way, it really IS as simplistic as older superhero yarns: “Take that you Ratzi!” The classic sock to the jaw, even if it takes the form of psychological torment, is given precedence over human life. We traditionally forgive writers having bad guys off innocent bystanders in the name of escapist melodrama, but the innocents of the Holocaust are simply too real, and died in too many numbers, for that to be the case this time.
And as if this wasn’t distasteful enough, Millar uses the issue as a venue for a round of anti-American hyperbole likely to sicken all but the most radical of leftists. Yes, he likens the climate of fascist Germany to that of post-9/11 America. Check out this narration from the commandant, brandishing codewords (emphasis mine) with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer:
“I took no pleasure in our camps or our preemptive strikes, but recognized that it was necessary to fight this terror abroad just as we had done for the security of our homeland. As I wrote in the Volkischer Beobachter, the Jews might have started this war when they brought down one of our finest buildings, but it’s the duty of all patriots to finish it.”
Apparently it wasn’t crass enough to turn the Holocaust into just another setting for some Wolverine payback. Millar had to make a political statement too.
Incidentally, that “finest building” reference Millar was no doubt giddy to find as an analog to the Two Towers, has been presumed by many readers to be a reference to the Reichstag building which burned in 1933. The burning set the stage for a decree which suspended human rights and set the stage for the rise of the Nazi party. As more than one historically-minded reader has noted, however, the burning was blamed not on Jews but on Communists. Still, whatever works for Millar to politicize ol’ Wolvie’s adventures, eh?
The larger debate as to the appropriateness of bringing politics into corporate superhero comics isn’t one I’ll resolve here, and some level of political sentiment is obviously inevitable, but I certainly do wonder if writers might find some better venues for their tracts than the land of spandex. Or, Jesus, just some subtler uses of allegory! My mind keeps drifting back to a bit on THE DAILY SHOW where John Stewart went on a rant about politicians comparing everyone they don’t like to Hitler:
“To sum up, please stop calling people Hitler when you disagree with them. It demeans you, it demeans your opponent, and to be honest, it demeans Hitler. That guy worked too many years too hard to be that evil to have any Tom, Dick, or Harry say, ‘hey, you're being Hitler.’ No. You know who was Hitler? Hitler!!”
Another problem with the story is that, try as it might for a sort of “whispered legend” approach, it can’t help but raise stupid superhero-geek questions: “How can Wolverine survive a beheading or cremation? He’s not that powerful.” “How can Wolverine be so inured to pain that he just takes all the violence heaped on him in silence?” “Why the hell DOESN’T Wolverine try to free the camp?” “When the camp commandant becomes aware that Wolverine might be one of the new wave of superhumans (and therefore not supernatural), why does he only then really lose it?”
Mark Millar probably doesn’t want these kinds of questions being asked, but I’ve seen ‘em all over message boards this last weekend – as close as I think we can get to actual proof that a WOLVERINE comic is a pretty crap place to try and spin a Holocaust legend. Wolverine’s just too specific a character for a legend about him to work. You can’t read it and not wonder why he’s acting less heroic than usual, not wonder why his powers are amped to absurd levels.
And here’s the final irony: Will Eisner, whose name is being served up as the validation of this poor concept, has a career that ultimately serves as the antithesis of it! Eisner first hit it big with THE SPIRIT, but as the series evolved, the lead character was often shunted out of the spotlight so Eisner could tell the kinds of stories he wanted to tell – stories of real people and hard life in the big city. Eisner would go on to spend the second half of his life telling such stories, but completely free from commercial hooks like a heroic lead in a mask. I wish Millar had paid attention to that growth in Eisner’s approach to serious storytelling when he was mulling over WOLVERINE #32, wish he had recognized what Eisner did decades ago:
Escapism and reality make for poor cousins.
SEVEN SOLDIERS: MISTER MIRACLE #1 (of 4)
Writer: Grant Morrison
Artist: Pasqual Ferry
Publisher: DC Comics
Reviewer: Prof. Challenger
Wow! Now that's what I'm talkin' bout. Grant Morrison just took that old, stale Fourth World stuff of Kirby's and gave it a shot of 21st century adrenaline. As much as I love and totally dig what Kirby did 30 years ago with his New Genesis and Apokolips characters, even I have to admit that since THE GREAT DARKNESS SAGA in LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES way back in the early 80s, the character of Darkseid particularly has been heavily overused. There have been tons of wasted attempts at making the Fourth World concept relevant post-Kirby. From my memory, I'll just recall a few to set the stage for why this new mini-series blows them all away. First, there was a FIRST-ISSUE SPECIAL called RETURN OF THE NEW GODS that spun off into a series highlighting some nice Don Newton art but bland as can be storytelling. MR. MIRACLE had a nice-looking series then with superb art by Marshall Rogers but no audience. The New Gods popped up in JLA at one point just in time for the artist Dick Dillon to die right in the middle of the multi-issue story opening the door for a young George Perez to illustrate his first JLA issue. But, again, not much interest in the characters. Paul Levitz and Keith Giffen were the first to make Darkseid cool as a post-Kirby villain in their multi-issue story called THE GREAT DARKNESS SAGA (available in trade collection for those who've never read it). Since that time, I can recall at least 2 different failed NEW GODS series, one mini-series and one failed ongoing series of THE FOREVER PEOPLE, at least one failed MR. MIRACLE series (or is that two?), a failed FOURTH WORLD series that spun out of the most recent NEW GODS, and ORION OF THE NEW GODS (the best of the bunch and should not have failed). The post-Crisis Superman continuity had a heavy Fourth World influence which means Darkseid has been way too prevalent in the Superman titles for way too long. Orion got shoehorned into the JLA for some inexplicable reason. Orion made a memorable appearance in KINGDOM COME, as did Scott Free/Mr. Miracle as the designer of the gulag. And during the slapstick JL years, Mr. Miracle was a member in good standing during all those silly shenanigans. In fact, that's where the whole Shilo Norman replacing Mr. Miracle storyline first emerged (if my memory is correct).
Which brings us to the new MISTER MIRACLE #1 that's part of Morrison's SEVEN SOLDIERS OF VICTORY interlocking epic. Morrison is an idea machine and DC seems grateful for his presence. Taking his nod from the DC Silver Age where Schwartz, Fox, Broom, and company were actively raiding past cancelled and failed concepts to rework and retool for a "modern" audience, Morrison is using his SSOV series as an opportunity to do the same for 21st century audiences. So far, I've been more a fan of the concept than the execution with ZATANNA being the only one that hooked me for all 4 issues. MISTER MIRACLE is a textbook on how to make an exciting first issue for a formerly stale character. Starting from the cover, with the allegorical imagery of MISTER MIRACLE as a crucified messiah archetype, Morrison veers the Fourth World concept out of the realm of the super-hero and into the realm of the mystical where the inhabitants of Apokolips more resemble purely evil demons than the cartoony and simplistic villains of the past. Likewise, the inhabitants of New Genesis are viewed more as physical incarnations of good...as, well...New Gods. The conflict between the New Gods and Darkseid is presented by Morrison on a literary level never achieved before. He even goes so far as to deemphasize the personification of Darkseid by avoiding the clever Kirby-ized name and relegating him more to a supernatural force of evil simply called....Dark Side. No little kids mispronouncing his name as DarkSEED this time around.
Artistically, Pasqual Ferry doesn't monkey around too much with the costuming. Mister Miracle's performance costume still looks like Mr. Miracle's garish yellow, red, and green monstrosity that I love. But he's taken those couple of extra steps to make it vibrant and new for the future. For example, he doesn't just leave the white-eyes look of Kirby but provides actual eyeholes so that we can see Shilo's eyes and even some of his skin around them. He also takes advantage of the coloring techniques and printing processes that were not around when Kirby first thunk up these guys to cause some of those Kirby design elements to literally glow. It gives Mister Miracle an otherworldly look as befits someone with ties to New Genesis. I was a real fan of the art throughout the story. Fantastic artist here and I'm sorry to read that he's already off the project.
Shilo Norman is not a bumbling fool played for comedic effect anymore. He is the world's greatest super escape artist. His confidence level is such that he confidently subjects himself to the forces of an artificially created black hole from which not even light can escape. But, then again, he's Mister Miracle. You figure it out. He's not like that poor Green Lantern over in GREEN LANTERN CORPS: RECHARGE whose body was literally pulled apart by the forces of the black hole he got caught in.
What's so cool about Shilo in this comic is how Morrison sets it up for us that Shilo may inexplicably be connected to the Fourth World in ways he never knew before. This is his first encounter with Metron, the Black Racer, and Granny Goodness. This is his first time to really hear about Darkseid. In other words, whatever experiences Shilo may have had with the JL and Scott Free in this continuity were so limited that these encounters with Gods and Demons totally freak the man out. As Mister Miracle, he's always in control of even the minutest detail of his life and his escapes. Now it seems all that he believed to be reality may be under the control of powers beyond his comprehension.
This first issue reads a lot like the first part of Nikos Kazantzakis' THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST where Jesus, fully man and fully deity, conducts his life as a man only and represses any memory he may have of his deity . . . until it becomes too much for him to deny anymore. That story is the tale of a man with an ultimate purpose, who is more than he wants or desires to be, and tries to run away from his destiny. He becomes haunted by visions of angels and the voice of God driving him to question his sanity. All the while he is also tempted by Satan with opportunities of wealth and power and sex. Of course, ultimately, there comes a point where Jesus accepts his destiny and boldly takes on his purpose. Satan is defeated because Jesus denies himself and sacrifices his life as a gift that saves the eternal souls of all who have and ever will accept it. Similarly, Shilo Norman is a man who has conducted himself without any conscious belief that there was anything more to him than what he knew. However, when he comes face to face with Metron he is told "Remember who you are! Be proud! And ride the thunderous Boom Lanes to New Genesis as once it was our home." Shilo was once an inhabitant of New Genesis? "We are absolute meaning! We are ultimate being! But we are lost. We need you." Shilo is the only one who can save the New Gods? Mother Box pings to him "That void in your soul is to be filled but you will have to be so strong to bear it." If Jesus was messiah to all mankind, Shilo seems called to be messiah to the New Gods.
Needless to say, Shilo's mind is blown away at all this. It's too much for him to take in. But he can't escape it. Even out on the town, he comes upon Granny Goodness and some of her girls. This time Granny's a creepy old black lady with a forked tongue. Furthering the demons/denizens of Apokolips parallels as now they seem to have more of that supernatural talent for taking on whatever form they please. Likewise, the Black Racer appears in a form unlike any he's taken before and this time he seems particularly menacing and helps put Shilo in imminent life-threatening danger as a cliffhanger for issue 2.
That's some heavy stuff for a soober-hero laff book.
SUPREME POWER: HYPERION #1
Writer: J. Michael Straczynski
Pencils: Dan Jurgens
Inks: Klaus Janson
Publisher: Marvel MAX
Reviewer: Ambush Bug
I’ve been a big supporter of the SUPREME POWER series. I think it is pretty much the finest example of episodic graphic storytelling out there today. Not only does every issue tell a stand alone story, but that story adds to the larger tapestry that encompasses the SUPREME POWER U. J. Michael Straczynski (who, in my last review of SUPREME POWER, I took a bit of heat over by those picking nits for my tendency to refer to him as JMS…to which I shout out a big “Fuck you!” to, since writing the guy’s name over becomes redundant to me, makes my carpal tunnel syndrome work overtime, and takes away from valuable time searching for porn and new ways to take over the world on the internet) continues to fill every episode of this series full of interesting high concepts and wonderful character moments. SUPREME POWER is taking a brief hiatus before it is moved to the more all-ages friendly Marvel Knights line. In the meantime, though, JMS isn’t slacking off. While writer Daniel Way seems to be taking Nighthawk in an interesting direction in his own miniseries, JMS is focusing on Hyperion for a miniseries as well.
HYPERION #1 takes place minutes after SUPREME POWER #18 left off, narrated by an especially effective quote from Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein. Hyperion is pondering life at the top of the world after creating a Grand Canyon-sized hole in the North Pole as a warning to the government to stop fucking with him. Meanwhile, the government just isn’t getting the message and they are gathering together a team of special powered people to confront Hype. Most of this issue introduces us to four new characters who look to be new Supreme Power-ed version of some familiar Squadron Supreme players. Those introduced are Arcanna (the Squadron’s Zatanna analog), The Shape (a version of Plastic Man), Nuke (a human nuclear reactor), and another guy who’s power is that he is the smartest man on the planet (don’t know if this guy is new or just someone I’ve forgotten from the old SQUADRON SUPREME series). This issue offers some really nice sequences involving the team’s powers. Arcanna’s “magic” powers are explained with a fascinating description of the Schroedinger’s Cat theory of physics regarding possibilities and perceptions of reality. JMS takes this heady subject matter and dissects it, making Arcanna’s magical powers seem digestible and logical in this story that is supposed to be taking place in “a world outside of our window.” This is a talent that JMS has excelled at throughout this series.
But as much as I liked Arcanna’s introduction in this issue, I can’t say that I can give this book a favorable review. You see, the first 18 issues of SUPREME POWER took it’s time introducing the readers to a cast of basically four main characters (Hyperion, Nighthawk, the Blur, and Doctor Spectrum) and two supporting female potential leads (Aquarian and Power Princess). The appeal to this series to me was the fact that it wasn’t about gathering a team of heroes together (although it was probably going to be leading to that). The story was more about the world around these people who have these amazing powers. It told a slow story that evolved and built up to a dramatic climax in last month’s final issue. I felt as if I knew these characters intimately and it allowed me to care about their well being and become heavily invested in the story of their lives. Now, in a single issue of HYPERION, four new major characters are just plopped into the readers’ laps. The Shape, who like Plastic Man used to be able to take the form of anything, is now simply a Blob-like character with invulnerability powers. Nuke, possibly the most tragic character, is only given a four panel backstory. And although Arcanna’s powers are described in detail, her character comes off as White Queen-lite. Now, I’m sure eventually, JMS will get to tell these character’s stories. I’m sure they will be interesting and compelling. But right now, after being completely enveloped in the slow progression of the SUPREME POWER series, to have four new characters gathered together and presented in such a two-dimensional style, I have to say that feel a bit ripped off and disappointed.
The art left me uninspired as well. I like Dan Jurgens’ art a whole lot better than I like his writing and in this issue especially, he seems to be trying to channel Gary Frank’s spectacular and clean artwork, but his characters seem a bit too stiff and some seem to be scrunched into the panel, like the final shot of the team of newbies descending on Hyperion. On top of that, the choice of Klaus Janson as inker kills any and all of the vibrancy that Frank conveyed in the ongoing series. Janson’s scratchy style has its place in comics, but just seems out of place in this book. His thick lines make Jurgen’s pencils seem even more amateurish. All in all, I respect these two artists for their contributions to comics, but their pairing just doesn’t seem like a good match together and with the overall tone of the story.
I was looking forward to this issue. I had heard that new characters were to be introduced and I couldn’t wait to see the new take on these old characters. But after reading this issue, I can’t say that I feel the same excitement I felt after reading the first issue of NIGHTHAWK a few weeks ago. The themes are pretty compelling, and it’s obvious JMS has a plan as to where this miniseries will go and how it will effect the ongoing, but the execution of the whole thing just seemed sloppy. Here’s hoping JMS and this team can pull it together by the time the new series starts.
DAY OF VENGEANCE #6 (of 6)
Writer: Bill Willingham
Artist: Justiniano (penciller) and Walden Wong (inker)
Publisher: DC Comics
Reviewer: Prof. Challenger
Finally! This seemingly endless 6-month countdown to INFINITE CRISIS has gone on waaaaayyyyyy too long. Free advice: In the future, limit these kinds of lead-ins to no more than 4 months at the most. Please.
Anyway, here we are with the first of the IC countdown mini-series to hit the finish line. So, how was the, as that nifty Walt Simonson cover puts it, Last Stand Against the Evils of Magic?
It took two issues too long to tell the story, but the wrap-up here was pretty good. Lots of story bits get resolved, including taking care of Eclipso. Very smart idea, in fact it's so obvious that it's insane that nobody's ever thought about doing it before now. My hat's off to Detective Chimp and the Phantom Strangermouse for that one. I'm sure Eclipso will be back at some point, but right now, she's out of the picture and I couldn't be happier since I never even liked the old Eclipso and I like the Jean Loring-Eclipso even less. The other story bit that gets some serious resolution involves Shazam and the Spectre. The ultimate point of this series was apparently to set up (1) an ongoing battle of magic whereby, like Pandora's Box, the many ancient evils once contained within the Rock of Eternity by the power of Shazam are set free once again, and (2) introduce the Shadow Pact team of magically powered heroes committed to defeating and re-imprisoning these magical evils once again, which is not going to be easy or quick.
For those long timers who are fairly well-versed in the lore of Shazam!, the death of the wizard Shazam should not be any big surprise nor should it be shocking. Shazam is one of those characters who always seems to be interchangeably either dead or not dead in continuity depending upon who's writing. Believe me, this is not the first time I've seen the giant stone come crashing down and crushing the old wizard. But it sets up an interesting scenario as to what effect upon the Marvel Family the wizard's death might have. In past continuity, I don't believe Shazam's death has directly affected or diminished the Marvel Family's powers. However, a strong part of Jerry Ordway reboot many years ago was the sharing of power among the Marvel Family; a concept utilized earlier in this very series where the Enchantress channeled more and more power into Capt. Marvel in an attempt to take out the Spectre. In this issue, though, the Spectre speaks Shazam's name himself to turn Cap back into Billy against his will. Powerful stuff that magic. What interests me in this turn of events is whether this means that the entire Marvel Family may find themselves powerless as a result of the death of Shazam and destruction of the Rock of Eternity. If so, Billy's quest to regain the power could make for a good storyline. Furthermore, if this is the result, we could see Black Adam suddenly bereft of his Shazam-fueled powers as well, which could put him in quite a sticky situation as to his involvement with the Secret Society of Super-Villains and dictatorship of Khandaq.
The Spectre's devolution into utter madness has been the fuel driving this mini-series. It is truly unsettling to watch the "undying Spirit of Vengeance" as his rotted and distorted corpse of a body proclaims he shall "exist as long as there's a need for dark judgment and divine retribution." It truly appears that The Spectre has gone the route of Lucifer and through the events in this mini-series become a fallen angel. Power and his quest for power have driven him to the point of utter corruption. Surely the Divine has turned His back on The Spectre at this point. An angel of the Lord would not focus himself on "dark judgment" and proclaim "I AM power!" In that one proclamation, the Spectre claims to have attained equality with God, who is the "I Am that I Am" (the same blasphemy of which Jesus was accused). In this comic, the allegory seems to be that the Rock of Eternity serves as "Heaven;" Spectre as Lucifer; and Shazam as God. In the end, just as Lucifer's rebellion loosed evil spirits upon the earth, Spectre's rebellion does the same.
Overall, I was really pleased with this series. It was fun and impressive in its scope. The Shadow Pact is firmly established by the end: Jim Rook, the Nightmaster, Detective Chimp, The Enchantress, Nightshade, Black Alice, Blue Devil, and Ragman. I'm a big fan of the thought that went into the line-up, which mixes some of the most obscure Silver Age characters with Charlton crossover Nightshade and modern characters like Black Alice. Can't tell if the Phantom Stranger is going to be a part of this group, but I'd like to see him show up regularly if nothing else. It's such an eclectic grouping of characters that it would be difficult to just out-and-out dislike them. I said before that my big concern for this group of characters is that their stories will burn out too fast in an ongoing title, and I still have my concerns about that. However, if Willingham can hold onto the concept behind the Shadow Pact and be willing to let the team membership change as stories dictate, then it may be a sustainable title. My first recommendation would be kill that Ragman character and let some girl take over and call her Ragdoll or something. I also can't wait to see who picks up the Blue Beetle scarab that came crashing down in El Paso, Texas. Maybe that wonderful old Gerard Jones/Mike Parobeck character, El Diablo will take up the Beetle role? No way. Too obscure. Then again….
POLLY AND THE PIRATES #1 (of 6)
Ted Naifeh: Creator
Oni Press: Publisher
Vroom Socko: Scurvy Dog
Avast! I proclaim this book to be quality readin’. Any who don’t peer inside these luscious covers be havin’ an appointment with the briny dee-
What? Talk Like A Pirate Day was last week? And our gag reviews are never actually funny?
Oh. Okay.
Sorry about that.
Anyway, this is a fun little book, centered on three little girls at a 17th century boarding school. Sarah’s the serious one, Anastasia is the adventurous one, and Polly… Polly is rather boring, to be honest. But that changes in a hurry when pirates kidnap one of the girls. Which one, and why, I’m not going to spill.
The first thing that struck me about this book was just how cute it looks. Polly and her friends look absolutely adorable, in a Love Is… kind of way. Then there are the pirates, whose hooked noses and wide mouths look like how P. Craig Russell would draw a gremlin.
What I like most about this book, however, is that it’s clearly a book for all ages. I don’t mean that there’s nothing objectionable about content that would be over the head of any six year old. I mean it in the literal sense; this is a story that can be read, understood and appreciated by anyone of any age. It may be the first comic I’ve come across since BONE that I can say that about.
I think I’ll be getting a few extra copies of this one for the kids in my neighborhood. If you’re looking for a comic to use as a gateway drug for youngsters, this one fits the bill.
NEW AVENGERS #10
Writer: Brian Michael Bendis
Pencils: Steve McNiven
Inks: Mark Morales & John Dell
Publisher: Marvel
Uh-oh, Ambush Bug’s reviewin’ another Bendis book…
I think it’s pretty clear by now that I am not Brian Michael Bendis’ biggest fan. I’ve reviewed his work numerous times, both seriously and not-so-seriously. Most of the stuff he writes just doesn’t do anything for me and I’ve made that pretty clear in my reviews. Usually, the reactions to these reviews have been pretty intense resulting in frantic page-long personal emails from the Bendii commanding that I sit on a spiked fence pole or something along those lines. I’ve been following HOUSE OF EHH and THE MOPING BLIND GUY FORMERLY KNOWN AS DAREDEVIL. These books have that Bendis feel. An overattention to the small stuff. Hyper-real dialogue that types out every beat and pause. And pacing that may not result in the most filling of reads. I think, too often, Bendis’s arcs run for too many issues, his plots are a bit too contrived, and his respect for the “show-don’t-tell” rule is, for the most part, thrown out the window.
There. That’s out of the way. I’ve said that schpiel in one way or another more times than I can count and I put that at the top because I don’t really want to focus on any of that in this review. Let’s move on to the issue at hand: NEW AVENGERS #10.
I’m digging Bendis’ NEW AVENGERS.
The recent three-issue arc, “The Sentry,” is much more focused than previous Bendis arcs which seem to be stretched out for trade. This story focuses on the anomaly that is The Sentry. Bendis swoops in, gets to the action, and resolves the problem. Sure issue #10 has quite a few panels of talking heads. Sure the action is superseded by debate between two characters, but I didn’t feel as if this arc was stretched out at all. I find it funny that Bendis so adamantly supports McKee’s three act screenplay model, yet he so often tells his stories in five or six issue arcs. Bendis should tell these shorter sized tales more often. They are much more effective.
My big beef with this issue (you knew it was coming ) is an ongoing theme that has been obvious since Bendis got his paws on this book. Plain and simple: Bendis writes the Avengers as ineffectual douches. Think about it folks. Not only did he destroy the original team only to rebuild it again with non-Avengers, but in every major battle so far, the Avengers have taken a back seat to the resolution of the story. Avengers face a bat-shit crazy Scarlet Witch in “Avengers Disassembled.” The Avengers fight for their lives. Who saves the day? Doctor Strange and Magneto. Neither of which are Avengers. In this current arc, the Sentry goes nuts. The Avengers battle an unbeatable foe. Who saves the day? Emma Frost, the White Queen. Not an Avenger. I can understand Bendis is trying to weave a large scale tapestry involving all of the major players in the Marvel U, but the name on the cover is NEW AVENGERS. How about they get some action in this book instead of being the grunts biding time until the big guns show up? The tagline of this book used to read: THE AVENGERS – EARTH’S MIGHTIEST HEROES. But lately, a more fitting tagline is: THE AVENGERS – WE’LL HOLD YOUR PURSE WHILE YOU TRY THAT ON… All I’m saying is that while this “Sentry” arc had quite a bit of action and interesting moments in it, none of them were made by any of the Avengers.
I still like this series. There was a cool two line interaction between Iron Man and Cap in the end talking about fate. The “elite super hero club” meeting at the beginning and end of this arc was interesting, but can I ask why Black Bolt was there by himself? I mean, what the hell can he contribute to this meeting without Gorgon or Medusa acting as his voice? Let me channel my inner Bendis…
Iron Man
Namor provided appetizers to munch on while we discuss this Sentry business.
Namor
I brought kelp.
Xavier
To me, kelp!
(They all try some.)
Doctor Strange’s astral form
Mmmm, nummy kelp.
Reed Richards
What do you think of the kelp, Black Bolt?
(Black Bolt belches; blowing Xavier, Iron Man, and Namor to atoms, dissipating Doc Strange’s astral form, and filling up Reed Richards like a balloon and sending him sailing out past the third moon of Poppup.)
And why the hell was the meeting held in the first place when all of the people in the meeting were actually there when the action went down with the Sentry?
But aside from all of that and my usual problems with Bendis’ tendencies, the main flaw of this book was that while it was an interesting story, but it just wasn’t really an Avengers story. Here’s hoping Bendis starts writing The Avengers real soon.
GREEN LANTERN CORPS: RECHARGE #1 (of 5)
Writers: Geoff Johns & Dave Gibbons
Artist: Patrick Gleason
Publisher: DC Comics
Reviewed by Dave Farabee
The new GREEN LANTERN monthly is one of the few sanctuaries for lighter super-heroing as DC makes its current focus grim ‘n’ gritty redux, so of course I had to look into the new team book spinning off of it. For me, the Green Lantern Corps as a concept is one of those rare cases where creating multiple superheroes with the same power doesn’t diminish the original. Partially, I figure it’s the geographical separation. Traditionally Hal, Kyle, or John Stewart has stuck to earth and its surrounding space, with the other few thousand Lanterns operating light years away. And really, the concept of super powered space cops – each one powerful enough to take on galactic threats singly – is just too cool to pass up.
That said, on those occasions that Green Lanterns do congregate in numbers, the writers had better be on the ball in playing up the different personalities or they are gonna blur.
And that’s why RECHARGE #1 worked for me. In concept, it’s the classic “gathering” premise where heroes are plucked from their daily routines and brought together, and Green Lantern alumni Geoff Johns and Dave Gibbons insure that everyone gets a moment in the dramatic spotlight. Well, they do right after the opening sequence kills a Green Lantern off. Never hurts to establish the stakes and it sets the stage for the recurring scenes of semi-sentient Green Lantern rings seeking out new wearers.
The usual suspects are all represented of course: Hal, Kyle, Guy Gardner and Kilowog get early, telling scenes. Guy seems to steal ‘em all, though, verbally sparring with Hal and (hilariously) mooning Batman on the JLA’s Watchtower. What can I say? It makes no sense that his asshole-ishness would be tolerated by so many, but the dude’s an excellent foil. And Batman even has a great response: “Tell Guy he needs a shave.”
Doesn’t take long, though, for artist Patrick Gleason to get his real trial by fire: aliens and alien architecture! And he comes through quite nicely. Gleason’s art is hard to describe. Traditional, but a little exaggerated. Cleanly drawn but textural. Spotted blacks that remind me of Michael Golden and etched renderings of form that call to mind Kevin Nowlan.
Here’s a nice splash page of a Green Lantern being sucked into a black hole formed from a star’s collapse.
Here’s Guy Gardner annoying Hal Jordan.
I know I’m impressed. I’m always impressed by those artists able to latch onto a singular style while still paying homage to a bit of superhero traditionalism, and Gleason fits that bill. Hell, he’s the main reason I kept an eye on AQUAMAN for a year or two hoping the writing would rise to the level of his art. And he draws a mean Oa, stately-yet-creepy Guardians, and a suitably weird Kilowog (much thanks to Ethan Van Sciver for reinventing Kilowog as more creepy, less huggable).
Easily the most interesting of the new recruits is a female doctor from Korugar, the home planet of ultimate Lantern-baddie Sinestro and a place that’s none-too-friendly to Green Lantern machinations. Johns and Gibbons present her with a Faustian moment: when the ring comes for her, she’s hip deep in surgery with a near-death patient. In accepting the ring, she would suddenly gain the power to save him, but in doing so she accepts a weapon her people see as symbol of tyranny and pain. Melodramatic as hell, but why not? This is space opera at its most literal.
There’re also recruits from both sides of the current Rann/Thanagar War, one of those furry li’l squirrel aliens whose race Ch’p belonged to before a yellow truck ran him over (no lie), and longtime fans will surely geek out to hear talk of Mogo, the sentient Green Lantern planet. In a way I was hoping for an even more alien approach to the world of the Corps, something a little more grounded in sci-fi than space opera, but I have to admit that I see a lot of potential with the pieces arrayed on this board.
Kilowog, of course, is the drill instructor of the group, possibly to be aided and abetted by the kind of teacher who’d come to class drunk and sleep with his students: Guy Gardner. Kyle Raynor fans will be happy, too, as he continues to get respect, which I hear is very big in Green Lantern fan circles. The lot of ‘em mix it up with Green Lanterns new and old, and the feel is that of a police or military academy, pleasantly novel in the world of superheroes. Hands are shaken, sector numbers exchanged, reputations eyed with interest.
Aside from the recruitment drive for the Corps, the mystery at the heart of this mini is the murder that opened the book, apparently just one of many recent Lantern deaths. It’s outlined in a neat scene where the Guardians float like the cool, blue sensei-dudes they are over a projection of a trouble-filled galaxy. That scene, like many throughout the book, boasts swanky lighting and coloring effects that calls to mind the recent ADAM STRANGE mini. It really does seem that sci-fi comics are coming of age visually – no more planets textured with a few lines of hatching, no more scenes of space dotted with comets and “Kirby-crackle.” It’s damn refreshing.
Based on this first issue, I only have one or two mild concerns about the book. First, I’m not thrilled at the hints that it’ll tie into the upcoming INFINITE CRISIS mega-event. Inevitable for any DC book, I suppose, but wouldn’t it be nice if the Corps could restart on its own, with no ties to a crossover? And then I’m just a bit nervous about Dave Gibbons’ writing, which I’ve nearly always found terminally boring. Now here he’s teamed with Geoff Johns, and while I can’t guess at the division of labor, I do know that the dialogue feels very “on,” unlike Gibbons’ RANN/THANAGAR which quickly became a chore. So is the book strong now because of Johns’ influence? Will it weaken if he contributes less?
Can’t rightly say, but I wish the series well because it’s definitely one that I’d like to follow.
CANNON GOD EXAXXION: STAGE FOUR
Written and Illustrated by: Henichi Sonoda
Published by: Dark Horse Comics
Reviewed by: superhero
Anyone who’s into manga can find something to like in this series.
Honestly, CANNON GOD EXAXXION has enough of everything to please your average manga otaku. There’s aliens, giant robots, spaceships, armored hand to hand combat, teen angst, and enough fan-service (meaning partial or full female nudity) to keep the average fanboy happy for hours upon end. For the most part, CANNON GOD hits most of the right notes when it comes to the giant robot/teenager against the alien invader horde genre. It’s lighthearted and silly enough so that it doesn’t get bogged down in melodrama but provides enough kinetic action and stunning art so as to add that certain edge that many sci-fantasy fans crave.
For those who aren’t in the know, CANNON GOD EXAXXION tells the story of a future Earth that has become not so much invaded, as it is occupied by an extraterrestrial force. In this future, humans have become mostly second class citizens who are no longer in charge of their own fate or the fate of their planet. Humans are not overtly oppressed, but they are subtly pushed to the edges of their own society by a race that is in almost every way its superior. These aliens are called Riofaldians and when they showed up one day from out of the stars, the human race could do nothing but roll over and make room. Their technology was just too advanced for humans to put up any kind of a fight. The Riofaldians could destroy us and we knew it so the inhabitants of Earth decided, well, if you can’t beat ‘em…
But of course, like in every piece good piece of alien invader fiction, there are those who are not taking
the occupation quietly. Enter Hoichi Kano and his grandfather. Hoichi is your average teenage boy who
gets recruited by his genius grandfather to pilot the giant robot Exaxxion which grandpa has constructed
using his own wily smarts as well as technology culled from the alien occupation force. Along with the
Exaxxion, his grandfather’s squad of sexy female assistants and a tailor made buxom female android
Hoichi begins to fight for the liberation of the planet Earth and the human race as a whole.
See what I mean? Silly. Yet, at the same time fun and engaging.
While the initial concept sounds a bit insipid, what keeps the story so interesting is the fantastic work
from the series creator, Henichi Sonoda. Fans may remember Sonada’s work from the now classic manga
series GUNSMITH CATS. Sonada injects this series with the same sort of energy, both through his detailed artwork and writing that he added throughout CATS. The action is constant, yet interlaced with bits of humor so as not to keep the narrative from getting too morose. The reason I use the term “morose” is because CANNON GOD isn’t your typical giant robot manga in that the scale and stakes tend to be much larger than most stories of this ilk. People, innocent civilians, actually die because of the Hoichi and Riofaldian engagements. But unlike many other books, instead of taking the easy route and going all grim and gritty, CGE takes the time to breathe and enjoy a bit of humor every once in a while. While large scale combat and its effects are never presented as humorous, there are enough light moments in between that don’t let you forget that what you’re reading is entertainment and should be enjoyed as such. It’s not meant to be taken seriously even if the hero’s actions do cause unintended destruction for the greater good of defeating his enemy.
As you can most probably tell, I’ve found CANNON GOD EXAXXION to be a pretty fun read. But with Volume (or Stage, as they like to call it) Four the story actually began to lag for me. With volumes one through three, I actually found myself really enjoying this series despite, or possibly because of, its more
juvenile elements. In the first three volumes of the series, Sonoda had managed to keep the action moving
and in the third he had actually taken the time to drop an interesting revelation about one of the main
players in the story. In this fourth volume, however, the story becomes stalled because the whole focus of
the book is on one giant robot fight. While some of it does play out rather well after a while it just seemed
to feel like much of the book was turning into filler. With Stage Four, I actually became a bit bored with
what was going on. It’s not that giant robot fights aren’t great but ONE giant robot fight that lasts more
that two hundred pages…?
That’s a bit much even for me.
The one possible explanation could be that EXAXXION may have reached the point that many manga series get to in which the author obviously has nothing more to add to the story except for the ending. Meaning that
the story’s logical conclusion is around the corner, but the author wants to add a bit more punch to his
tale and really has nothing more to say. Therefore, the story begins to feel stretched out beyond its
boundaries. It’s happened to other series I’ve read and it’s a shame. Hell, there are plenty of American
comics that I often feel are treading water, but with manga, more often than not, a finite story is being
presented. So it seems all the more wasteful to just add bits that don’t need to be there.
This isn’t to say that Stage Four of CANNON isn’t a good read. It is. It just isn’t as good as Stages One
through Three. I obviously don’t expect anyone out there to just pick up this series starting with Stage
Four, but if you do pick up EXAXXION and you enjoy it enough to get to volume four just be prepared for a
bit of a let down. It’s not horrible, but it is the RETURN OF THE JEDI or GODFATHER PART THREE of the
series in that, yes, it is part of the story, but it just happens to be the most disappointing part of the
story.
Either way, volume four isn’t so bad that it’ll keep me away from volume five but the next chapter needs to
be pretty darn good to keep me interested. If Henichi’s work on GUNSMITH CATS is any indication then
the party’s probably not over for CANNON GOD EXAXXION by a long shot.
CAPTAIN AMERICA #10
This is one of the few HOUSE OF M tie-in issues I’ve read and it’s far and away the best. Ed Brubaker proves once again that he deserves all the praise he’s received over the last few years. It’s a standalone issue detailing the life of Steve Rogers in the HOM universe. It’s similar to the one-shot devoted to Nomad a few issues ago in that it tells a sad, heartfelt tale of somebody who did the best he could but didn’t always have things go his way. This Cap stood up to Joe McCarthy, refusing to rat out his super powered friends, and ends up walking away from the costume forever. It’s a bold gesture, but one of debatable merit, and his life takes a different and more disappointing course. Brubaker’s got so much heart and talent that he overcomes the obstacles posed by this kind of crossover and turns in another great issue. This run on CAPTAIN AMERICA actually has me more excited about DAREDEVIL than I’ve been in years. Sleazy G
ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR ANNUAL #1 - In the weakest of Marvel’s test-run of annuals via the Ultimate line, Mark Millar re-imagines the Inhumans with minimal changes and Jae Lee shows once again that he’s an immaculate designer who it just so happens can’t draw backgrounds to save his life. And really, what’s the point of showing off an exotic, hidden civilization if every panel is so shrouded in haze that it’s like those old video games where mist hid the computer’s inability to process detailed background polygons? Skip it. The Inhumans were cooler the first time. - Dave
RUNAWAYS #8
I’ve been a supporter of this series from the beginning, but I’m getting a little nervous. Brian K. Vaughan started the original series with a strong and diverse cast of kids. As of this issue, though, we’ve just had the second member of the core group rotated out. I’m sure Vaughan is just introducing plot threads for future stories, but it’s a pretty big risk to keep getting rid of characters the readers like and replacing them with unknowns. I just hope it doesn’t cause a drop in readership because I’m still interested in seeing where the storylines are going. With any luck the threads will be picked up fairly soon and we’ll see the character who left this issue rejoin the rest of the gang. - Sleazy G
ROCKETO #2 - This book is a special kind of frustrating. Structurally, it’s nearly incoherent, following the life story and adventures of an explorer named Rocketo on a post-apocalyptic earth filled with monsters, robots, animal men, and all manner of visual spectacle. Problem is that the story isn’t told in the traditional sense, with time taken to establish characters and meaningful arcs, opting instead for a sort of highlight reel of moments where no instance of Rocketo’s life takes on greater meaning than the next. It’s about as dramatically interesting as reading a timeline - even if the timeline has events like “alien invasion” and “global cataclysm”, it’s still just a timeline. BUT…the art is amazing. With minimalist linework reminiscent of an even more pared-down Darwyn Cooke, form delineated by painterly swathes of vibrant color, it’s actually some of the finest comic art I’ve seen all year. (You can peek at a preview here.) So…I really can’t recommend this even remotely based on the story, but if you’re a true lover of the Toth/Kurtzman/Kirby/Caniff schools of comic art, ROCKETO weirdly becomes a must-have. How strange is that? - Dave
ULTIMATES 2 #8
I’m all for creator-owned work, and I’m all for creators taking a break when they need it rather than burn out. That said, it’s a shame Mark Millar is going to be leaving so many big titles so soon. It feels like he’s really been bringing his A-game lately and he’s still got a couple more seasons left in him. ULTIMATES 2 has been far stronger than the first series, and this issue shows once again that while external forces can exert some influence, it’s always the internal tension that tears a team apart. Already feeling isolated and abandoned, Steve Rogers is now wanted for the murder of Hawkeye’s family. He’s tracked down by an enraged Nick Fury and beaten senseless by the Ultimates reserve forces, but it’s looking more and more like that damned hippie Thor was right all along. This series is really crackling, and with only four issues left I’m sad to see Millar’s leaving…especially considering the replacement team when he’s gone. “Reserve forces” indeed. Sleazy G
ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR #23
I don’t know who the cute Shirley Temple chick with the sexy mouth on the first page is, but I was disappointed to see she didn’t turn up in the rest of the issue. By the end of the issue, though, we get to find out that Sue’s mom is a stone fox, so it’s all good. Greg Land has obviously had a lot of fun drawing zombie analogues of Marvel U. mainstays, and the arc had some fun moments, but I’m hoping for something more substantial from the next storyline. I’m a little nervous about the upcoming miniseries set in this alternate world later this year, though—I’m not convinced at this point it’ll be substantial enough to get past the “whoa, cool!” stage. Sleazy G
Ten hut, maggots!!! Sgt. A. Bug reporting for duty. This week’s objective: Cast the best damn military toy/comic/cartoon ever. That’s right soldier, this week’s @$$hole Casting Couch is drafting…
For those of you just joining us, the Casting Couch is a place where a fanboy can be a fanboy. One of my favorite things to talk about is who should play what comic book character if adapted to the big screen. And it seems like I’m not the only one. I know there are a lot of comic book movies are being made these days, but there are plenty more properties that deserve the silver screen treatment.
Now more than ever, America needs to feel safe and protected from the thralls of tyranny. In these troubling times, when terrorism and anarchy lurk around every corner, a film about the best fighting force this great nation has to offer is not only needed, it’s necessary. I collected GI Joe figures, watched the cartoons, and read the comics when I was little. You collected GI Joe figures, watched the cartoons, and read the comics when you were little. We all collected GI Joe figures, watched the cartoons, and read the comics when we were little. Don’t deny it, puke stains! So fill a canteen full of nostalgia and gear up for the Official GI JOE Casting Couch now with swivel arm battle grip!
The Premise
The enemy was defeated. The snakes slithered into hiding. The Joes retired and life in America was peaceful and good. But new intelligence suggests a resurgence in terrorist activity around the world and on American soil. With the country in fear of a new wave of COBRA terrorism, the Joes are taken out of retirement and put back in action, fighting the forces of evil and training the next generation of Joes. I’d cast older actors as the veteran Joes coming out of retirement and a younger bunch for the greenshirts in this ensemble movie. So let’s cast this summbitch! Hoo-ahh!!!
The Roster
General Hawk was fighting COBRA when most of the Joes were still making pudding in their pj’s. He was the original GI JOE. We need an older, more wizened actor who could still kick @$$ if he had to. Veteran actor and tough guy, Robert Forster (JACKIE BROWN) looks like he could lead this team to victory.
General Hawk may call the shots, but Duke leads the team into battle. We need someone with an all-American boy demeanor and a chiseled jaw. The Captain America type. Someone like Aaron Eckhart (THE CORE, IN THE COMPANY OF MEN) to order these troops around on the field. This talented actor is yet to have a true breakout role and Duke may be it.
Stalker has seen it and done it all and snuck up on it all and filled it all full of bullets. We’d need an actor who is streetwise as well as military savvy to pull this one off. Sam Jackson, you say? Hell no. Delroy Lindo (THE HEIST, THE LAST CASTLE) is ten times tougher. This older actor would be perfect as a veteran Joe a bit too old for this shit and in charge of whupping the newbies into shape.
Who didn’t want to be Snake Eyes as a kid? He wore all black. He carried two swords and an Uzi. He never talked. He kicked the @$$hole off of anything that crossed his path, and got to boff Scarlett. Acting chops aren’t needed for this role, just sheer kick-assed-ness for this silent but deadly shadow warrior. You may know him as Darth Maul or Toad, the Headless Horseman, or the guy who keeps saying he’s going to be playing Iron Fist in a movie, but after this flick, Ray Park would always be known as Snake-Eyes.
Beautiful, sexy, deadly. No, I’m not talking about our own Harry Knowles. These words come to mind when I think of Scarlett. With her crossbow and throwing stars, this soldier-ette kicks the keister of COBRA and warms the heart of everyone’s favorite Joe, Snake-Eyes. Look at Kate Beckinsale (UNDERWORLD, VAN HELSING). Absolutely beautiful, but there’s a bit of danger behind those sparkling eyes. She’s one red dye job away from being Scarlett.
Say hello to my not-so-little frien’
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When Wolverine comics become stages for political ranting, there's nowhere you can turn anymore.
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Definitely some interesting choices for the Joes, even though this kind of "casting call" stuff isn't new. But one thing. Even though those character pics are actually property of Hasbro, I'd appreciate it if you guys would credit my site the next time you use the images from it. I did scan them all and edit them.......... Oh, and I don't know why, but I still can't help but love Guy Gardner!
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Agree with the reviewer above - the art was gorgeous (at least the backgrounds were. Characters a bit too cartoony for me)but the story was just stupid. If Wolverine had at least said "You've killed your last Jew, Bub" I could have enjoyed this. The whole idea that he was fucking with these guys while letting hundreds die was just unpalatable and how DID he survive decapitation - what is he, a fucking worm? When I started to read that paragraph, quoted above, which mentioned "the homeland" and "security" I started to feel that same feeling of fear and shame you got when you were a kid and thought you had farted but realised you had in fact followed through - ooooooooh surely he could not be doing something so fucking crass??? In a week where I saw Guy Ritchie's train crash 'Revolver' and read this piece of shit, I felt like the world was being taken over by morons who think they are making great statements. And oh for FUCK'S SAKE Ultimates 2 is the WORST comic out there right now. Jesus, everything that Marvel does wrong, it does wrong here. The lame attempts at toughening up their comics; the weepy captain America; the ridiculous Fury and worst of all the stupid fucking story, which just screams "look we are doing something different and hardcore" while actually being the most obvious and boring shite imaginable - please someone stop this bollocks now. Still I quite like Hyperion and I thought it was pretty funny the way Runaways turned the whole over-wrought "But I'm a lesbian" thing on it's head by having the alien groom/bride just turn into a hot chick. Cue dykey Karolina hopping into spaceship faster than you could say 69 - good stuff!
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But my mangina was hurting when I read all your JMS's last issue. I forgive you... although I am a fan of occasional pronouns. DAMN! I mean... say whatever you want bug.
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So, no matter what happens to the bearer, the Ring is a-ok? As in, a ring is invulnerable and eternal? I thought they were more like tools. Enlighten me, please.
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Sep 28, 2005 8:42:09 PM CDT
Dave, I believe Jose Villarubia should receive more credit for t
by gus nukem
The discussion for the comic's content and plot notwithstanding, its interiors were beautiful. And Jose Villarubia should receive more credit for his masterful coloring. Generally speaking, the labor of today's colorists is greatly underappreciated, at least in the reviews I've read. They make terrible art palatable, and great art even better. Hats off to Jose Villarubia and to every other fine colorist out there.
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It's nerd night after new comics day. What the hell happened to the talkback? Oh, and mark my words that Nick Fury is the traitor in the Ultimates. Access to the videotapes, over-readiness in believing Captain America is the bad guy, creepy spying on Pym and Banner's conversations. It's Fury...or should I say the Ultimate Red Skull.
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I think your criticisms definitely applied to the first series, and I voiced them myself here. That said, I really think the second series has shown a great deal of improvement. As issues involving Cap, Hank and Jan go, for example, this one was vastly superior to the one from the first series. I had a lot of serious misgivings about the first dozen issues and thought the "bad guy" aliens were pretty dull. This second series is much more interesting and far better written than the first, a trend I fully expect to reverse with ULTIMATES 3 #1.
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Well, I should say "somebody who looks just like Cap." The less appealing option is one a' them alien shapeshifters (redesigned Krulls) from the first series. The much more appealing and much more likely option? Thor was telling the truth and Loki really is fucking with everybody. There's a kinda symmetry there, since if I remember correctly Loki was a big part of why the Avengers formed early on. Plus It'd be nice to see Thor or Loki have have something cool to do somewhere, since it's been a while.
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It wouldn't surprise me. I was talking on her last week about Nip/Tuck's serial slasher and saying how it could be anyone because the show is so crazy, in a good way, that you don't know where it's going. I feel the Ultimates is the same but in a bad way. Sorry if you like it but it just strikes me as everything that is wrong with comics these days.
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It just annoys me because I kind of like the idea of Captain America being like a fish out of water. When he goes to see Bucky in this issue and he's talking about the "degenerate" friends and short skirts etc I bought it totally, a guy from the '40s who swallowed the all-American propaganda whole and is now living in times that are against everything he believes in. The hugging - not sure if I approve , being a closet case and all. Just the rest of the shit here - remember when Donny Osmond made a comeback years ago and was wearing a leather jacket to appear 'edgy'? That's what I feel this series is. Or Britney Spears' "I Love Rock n Roll" video. It's trying too hard
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Anyone read it? The mini was okay overall, but it could have been paced much better -- e.g., the main event throwdown in this issue should have been built and resolved over two issues instead of being crammed into this single issue; some of the stuff prior to this could have been condensed. I dunno, like the other Crisis minis so far, OMAC feels less like taut, well-polished, self-contained mini than a six-issue filler/exposition story leading into Infinite Crisis. Here's to hoping for a decent Crisis, at least.
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The part Vin was born to play. He's even got the voice. Just paint his ugly head silver.
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I don't know, I kinda like it. I really like his characterization of Cap, which is why I don't think it's him, also as he's going to be in the Loeb series. Haven't seen any Joe Mad pictures of Fury, either. I like Ultimate Loki better than Marvel Loki as well. Loki is supposed to be Thor's age, and his Marvel costume was too Silver Age for my tastes.
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without mentioning how much A$$ he kicked as a contestant on "American Gladiators" back in the day. Screw Apprentice: Martha Stewart....how bout bringing back the Human Cannonball, the Atlaspheres, the Eliminator, and all the things that made AG cool. (I'd ask for more Rollergames, but there's only so much room on the soapbox. ;)
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Actually Michelle showed some range when she played a woman for a change, in one of the last few episodes of Lost, season 1.
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Sep 28, 2005 10:02:45 PM CDT
Meanwhile, for those of us who have new clue who the New Gosd ar
by fantomex
Miracle #1 sucked pretty hard. THATS OKAY, a few of the other 7 soldier #1's sucked hard too, but every single mini has turned into a winner, and I say that with confidence even though we still have to see how zantanna and klarion end. I didn't expect Morrison to write 30 issues without going completely senseless at least a few times. heres hoping he keeps it contained to mister miracle, a character I have no interest in.
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But doesn't it always seem like one of those idea's hollywood could never pull off? I'd rather see it as a live action TV show just so it show's more characters and can do more detailed stories on them. Following along the lines of the cartoon and comics. Just having some Joes and Cobra's fight for 2 hours isn't enough.
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sawyer from LOST. and um, my fave, cobra commander will be played by um...LARRY DAVID...er...
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I'm thinking Fury is going to ultimately (get it?? HAHAHAHA) be the traitor... trying to phase out the old team for his new reserves, an army of super people he can control for the world's protection, and not a small and dysfunctional superteam
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How'd you guys get one of them Bug things from exiles to direct this thing?
That must be muchos dinero! -
I didn't read the Wolverine comic that was reviewed, as I'm not a real big fan of Mark Millar (RED SON and ULTIMATES are good, but on everything of his that I've read it just seems like he's trying too hard to keep up with Bendis). Anyway, I've noticed quite a bit or political commentary in THE ULTIMATES (re-imagining Captain America as a jack-boot thug comes to mind), but it always seems to fit the story he's telling. Maybe it's because I tend to agree with the stances that he takes that I'm not bothered when he slips them into my comics. It does seem that if a person agrees with the comment being made then the writer/actor was "making a statement", but if a person disagrees with the comment then that person is "ranting". That being said, Kanye West is a really smart dude (albeit one with questionable timing instincts), and Charlie Daniels needs to start looking into retirement homes for Crusty Old Drunken Crackers.
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Sep 28, 2005 11:24:08 PM CDT
Please Stop Confusing "Anti-Bush" With "Anti-American".
by flim springfield
You'd have to have a pretty dismal view of America to equate Bush with it.
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Sep 29, 2005 12:40:02 AM CDT
There's no way Michelle Rodriguez could play Lady Jaye.
by iamnicksaicnsn
I'd rather see... well, somebody else. I don't think Harold "Michael" P. Jr. could play Doc, either. His face isn't square enough. I'd rather go with Don Cheadle, or, someone who looks like Carl Weathers.
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Sep 29, 2005 12:48:28 AM CDT
Real Quick... who better than Famke Janssen to play the Baroness
by nivekj
I dare you to come up with someone better! And no, Bebe Neuwirth doesn't count!
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Sep 29, 2005 1:01:57 AM CDT
Despite what Ultimates 2, 8 might suggest, I still believe that
by george newman
He is the good kind of traitor though. My theory is that Fury is the 'traitor', dismantling the Ultimates in order to set them free from the tyrannical government control. Fury doesn't like the Ultimates as the US world police/preemptive strike force so he is going to destroy the team in order to sever govt ties, and secretly rebuild the team 'for truth and justice'. This seemed to be the only logical thing because IF Fury actually believed in the preemptive/police/government thing, then Fury would be the Bad Guy. There is NO WAY Nick Fury can be the bad guy. Millar idolizes Fury too much to make him the bad guy. Fury is too cool and smart--he's Sammy J. ...The only thing putting a damper on this theory is Hawkeye. That last line delivered to hawkeye before the bullets could be taken as something reassuring, and the bullets fired did not go into Clint's head. However there is still the horrible issue of the deaths of the wife and son. Good grief,
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Then he most definately is a bad guy. 100%. he is psycho when it comes to protecting the country, to the point where, like I said earlier, he needs complete and total control of the team (see Ultimates annual if you don't believe me on his psychoness) He's a control freak, who I can fully support being into the Ultimates as "the US world police/preemptive strike force." Just look at the people gradually taking the place of the regular team. A verifiable army of controllable super people.
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I agree with Mr Anderson that he is constantly playing catch-up to Bendis - his Wanted series was absolute pissflaps. Red Son was OK but nothing special. Was he the one who had Proteus as a Glasgow Rangers fan luring Prof X to Berlin in Ultimate X-Men? That was pretty funny. Overall I hardly rate him. I might agree with the political points he is trying to make but he often does it in such a clunky way that it's embarassing. Wolverine this week was just a classic example of this
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I've been thinking about this for years and i want to see Christian Bale as Tomax and Xamot, William H. Macy as Wild Bill, Matthew McConaughey as Dusty, Gary Oldman as Major Bludd, and Laurence Fishburne as Destro to name a few. i origianlly would have picked Viggo Mortensen for duke but Aaron Eckhart looks up to the role. i also think stone cold steve austin should be gung ho. oh yeah and ultimates rules
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The Khmer Rouge's Killing Fields (hundreds of thousands - 2 million estimate) and Rwanda's massacres (800,000 plus estimate) give it a run for "most vile act".
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So I can't buy all these books to figure out what's what. I always thought Scott Free was Mr. Miracle. Could someone please write a sentence or two as to how the transition was made?
Much obliged,
Squidman -
I must be one of the few who really enjoy and look forward to the Ultimates every time it comes out. Personally, I don't think it ever seems forced or rushed. I'd actually call it a nicely paced, interesting story. And I liked the first series, too. But I don't love everything Millar. I bailed on his Wolverine run after just two issues I was so bored. They felt completely, ridiculously over the top. Apparently, they stayed that way. He's just hit and miss.
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Cobra Commander's lithe form in that military-style blue and black get up could be easily filled by:
Jude Law.
COOOOOBRAAAAaaa, eh, hello. Are you the new nanny? Splendid. Here, put these round glasses on. Right. Now the black cat-suit with the, oh - don't mind that red cobra emblem. Now, let's work on that accent ... -
The conversation with Hank a few issues ago makes more sense if a female Soviet-ex-patriot says it.
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Who's not a god, but a mutant with the ability to create psychic illusions, which is why everyone thinks the killer is Cap.
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Unless Roadblock says "body massage!" at some point. Or, failing that, Gung Ho stating "Look at all your different colored hats!"
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Hadn't seen it in more than a decade, but it was so fucking cool. I've seen it so many times as a kid I still knew all the dialogue and music cues and sound effects by heart. LIVE ACTION FILM NOW PLEASE!
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And I had to leave Transformers: The Movie early because the death of Optimus Prime was too much for me. /// Anyone read JSA: Classified #3? What a difference from the JSA the week before. It's obvious what Johns' bread and butter is. Great stuff.
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...who finds it humorous that the reviewer of the Wolverine Holocaust tale used Jesus as an expletive in his review? Kind of tells us all where you're coming from. The premise for the story sounds quite interesting and, while I agree that comparing the actions of any modern-day public arena baddie to Hitler is pretty excessive (which didn't stop folks from doing so with Hussein), the parallels between the activities of fascist Germany (or Italy)during WWII and the U.S. today are drawn frequently because people see them. And didn't Professor X himself suggest in his Xavier Protocols that decapitation would only kill Wolverine if the head and body were separated by sufficient distance to prevent reattachment?
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Stiffler as ShipWreck
The Rock as Destro (or Vin Diesel)
Viggo as Duke (he seemed pretty tough in GI Jane)
Tony Ja as Snake Eyes (kicks more butt and wears a mask anyway)
Wilam Defoe as Cobra Commander -
I've liked a lot of the stuff he's written. His Batman\Predator crossover with the Kuberts on art was probably the best Pedator story there will ever be, his Superman\Batman mini with Steve Rude was tons of fun and I've really been enjoying Rann\Thanagar War too.
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And it's one I don't like at all. I think we can add "fourth dimensional tales on the astral plane" to the list of stuff BMB can't do. He needs to leave that crap for Morrison. I'm a bit tired of BMB having ALL the superheroes show up EVERY time. Quantity does not equal quality. Having the entire Marvel U turn up every other issue does not make for compelling stories.
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I mean, I like your reviews, but I've never heard of 90% of the shit you reference in them.
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I liked that Wolverine issue fine, but I think I stopped reading it halfway through and just looked at the pretty pitchers. *** That Ultimate FF issue is a textbook example of a writer just picking up a paycheck. *** I really like the UFF though. Although Greg Land's overreliance on photoreferencing can be more than a little distracting.
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Is the textbook example of the writer picking up the paycheck. I like the series just fine.
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Just wanted to make a brief point based on mention of the Killing Fields and the Rape of Nanking (the latter brought up in an email): me citing the Holocaust as the most heinous act of the 20th century in no way mitigates any OTHER horrors of the period. That should go without saying, right? I appreciate the input, though. ******* As for me using "Jesus" as an expletive, you'll have to explain the humor/irony/whatever to me Roland. I'm not sure how that tells where I'm "coming from" since it's a common use of the word among many. I don't hold the word as sacrosanct, I guess that's pretty easy to divine, but...what else?
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bob - I'm in total agreement about Bendis and New Avengers. Having all the heroes show up at once kind of loses its impact after the third time. And honestly, of all the Bendis to praise, the current N.A. issue? I guess to each his own, but I thought it was almost as bad as the one in the Savage Land where I had no idea what was going on. Dave - I think Roland was making some reference to you using the word "Jesus" must mean that you're not a Jew. Or something. I dunno, it doesn't really make sense to me either.
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But I liked Millar's first issue for its bang-zoom approach. Felt like 616 Marvel which was kind of cool, though ironically was at odds with the very re-inventive nature of the Ultimate Universe. To me, the book felt most unique under Ellis with his sci-fi/juvenile-adventure-fic approach. That actually seemed to be in keeping with the relative realism of the Ultimate Universe and I even liked Ellis's treatment of the Reed/Sue relationship. Too bad he dropped the ball in the third act for both the Doom and Annihilus stories, but I liked a lot of the "in-between" stuff. I thought his take on Doom was legitimately novel while everyone else seemed to want 616 Doom. Anyway, it'll be interesting to watch reader reaction to the follow-through on Millar's run since he's definitely going very "superhero."
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I love that Kirkman is going to take that Zombie World from Ultimate Marvel and do his whole zombie schtick on it. Go Marvel Zombies!
And dude, that link is SO NOT to Kate Moss pissing; it's to cum.org which is... FOR SALE! Grab it now, kiddies! -
I didn't know about this character either and most of what I found about him was re-capped in the review. He was involved in some caper and then became an assistant of Scott's in Kirby's run and took on the mantle of Mr.Miracle as an adult. He also appeared as a warden of The Slab in Joker: Last Laugh. I always had a soft spot for MM with his amazon wife, garish costume, and diminutive friend. This new book has a lot of potential even with a new artist on the rest of the series.
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"me citing the Holocaust as the most heinous act of the 20th century in no way mitigates any OTHER horrors of the period. "
Learn not to use "MOST HEINOUS" or "SINGLE MOST VILE" , if you do not intend to compare the death toll numbers with other genocides. Instead state that it is "ONE of the most heinous acts". -
...I've come to vipe your vindows. Man, GI Joe was great when we were kids.
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see the horrendous new GI JOE cartoon? seriously horrendous.
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Nice DoV review. I hadn't even considered that allegorical angle. Now I'll have to go back and reread it all..
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Okay, sure, take issue with characters like Captain America doing things that you find against the grain of your specific notion of what/who the character is. That's been flogged to death on these boards. Hell, feel free to bitch about how the series is just taking Marvel Myth and dipping it in contrived "darkness" and cynicism. But come on folks, this isn't the early 90s here... this isn't some lame half-assed, post Dark Knight Returns attempt to infuse heroes with grim-n-gritty. This series from day 1 has been planned and executed meticulously. I remember an interview with Millar and Hitch (maybe in Wizard...?) where Hitch said that he gets the scripts and he STUDIES them. He pays attention to what is going on in the dialogue, the emotions, the characters. He will obsess over single panels, tiny details and gestures. Notice the faux panel-break between Cap and Bucky when they were walking in the graveyard? The 2 characters are connected yet almost intangibly separate. I dunno...I just find this series incredibly well-made, smart, and pretty perfectly paced. When there is action it's huge and breathtaking, and character moments are spot on and affecting (whether it be touching or disgusting). I get the feeling that if this book came out as often as Ultimate Spider-Man, there would be a lot less critics. /end ramble.
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Assuming you are keeping the cartoon/comics timeline (i.e., Stalker/Snake Eyes were in Vietnam, etc.), your "original" Joes would be fairly old. Per that, here are my choices:
Duke - Kurt Russell
Flint - Powers Boothe
Lady Jaye - Carey Lowell
Scarlett - Polly Walker
Snake Eyes - Tom Berenger
Stalker - Billy Dee Williams
Cobra Commander - Willem Dafoe
Destro - Laurence Fishburne
Baroness - Monica Bellucci
Major Bludd - Vernon Wells
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Logically yeah it kinda works I suppose (especially with that 4 hrs spent in Hank Pym's apt) but on the other hand they did show the traitor's hands/arms in the meeting with Hank Pym...and those were Dude hands and arms. And I dunno about Fury either, cause the hand the pulled the trigger on Hawkeye was WHITE.
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Yeah all a huge elaborate ruse by Loki that goes back a while, and Thor ends up breaking out and whupping ass, and really being the Odinson. Then again, it would also rule if Thor was really crazy and Fury was the Red Skull. Actually I don't know a way that this can pan out where it wouldn't rule. Maybe if the traitor turned out to be Ultimate Willy Lumpkin.
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Loved it.Alan Moore's portrayal of the Joker to me was pretty cool.Insane but at the same time had some interesting things to say about society.What exactly happens at the end?I know Barbara ends up in a wheelchair.But did Batman push the Joker or did he just hold onto him and give him a little shake?Having just read this and Dark Night Returns.Are there any other Batman books out there on this level?I read Long Halloween and Hush but found them to be mediocre.
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Man are you wayyyyy off on some of the choices for the Joes. Completely miscast I think. Only ONE of your choices met mine, Ray Park as Snake Eyes. Here's how I see it:
Gen. Hawk - The original Joe, the guy the US military brings in to lead the bunch. He's tired of government fuck ups and now he can do it HIS way. No doubt, it's Clint Eastwood.
Duke - Eckhart? Gimme a fucking break. Have you seen "Soldier" or "Stargate"? Duke IS Kurt Russell.
Flint - I'm thinking George Clooney. His military turns in "Three Kings" and "The Peacemaker" convinced me.
Roadblock - Duncan is an ok choice but I'm going with Ving Rhames.
Snake Eyes - As said earlier, Ray Park would be a must.
Lady Jaye - She ain't latino! If Demi Moore can be in "GI Jane" shape again, she's my pick.
Scarlett - Tougher choice here, I think I'd go with an unknown.
Shipwreck - Slater? Sorry, I don't buy it. Has to be Bruce Willis.
Lifeline - Matthew Modine. Check him out in "Full Metal Jacket."
Gung Ho - I guess your pick would be ok, he's a crap character anyway.
As for Cobra?
Cobra Commander - Tim Roth, he can play cowardly and evil very well.
Destro - Michael Dorn, he's got the physique and voice.
Xamot and Tomax (not sure I spelled that right) - The corporate face of Cobra....how about Guy Pearce?
Baroness - Easy, Angelina Jolie
Dr. Mindbender - Patrick Stewart
Stormshadow - Jet Li. Yes folks, Ray Park vs. Jet Li...awesome or what?
Serpentor - Cast an unknown.
G.I. Joe could easily be a trilogy, use elements of "X-Men" and "Lord of the Rings", take it seriously. With the HUGE cast of characters to pick from, it would rock.
I'd alter the story for a feature film. The Joes are such a top secret team, neither the president or Congress know of their existence, only the US military BUT this is an *international* anti-terrorism force it's just that the US military provide the bulk of financing.
The Joes are under such lock and key that even each team member only know each other by their code names, including any romantic couples like Duke & Scarlett (this is to insure information never leaks out as Cobra could use it to harm the Joe's families.)
The trilogy revolves around the creation of Serpentor (with all this cloning going on, why not?) in part 1, his rise to power in part 2 and his defeat in the third.
Along the way he kills Duke (unlike the cop out in the animated movie) and in the third when Cobra is defeated, the Joe's give him a very public memorial against the US military's orders. Duke will be give the Joe's a face and name and stand in for the rest of the anonymous who have fallen in battle. -
Alan Moore. Thing i like the most about KJ is how Gordon and Batman make a point out of bringing Joker in "by the book", even after all the horrible things he did.***I agree with Shigeru on Ultimates. Agree a lot.***Aaron Eckhart as Duke? I'm sorry but Duke has to be a real man's man. Give me Hillary Swank.
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Don't forget the Rape of Nanking. I'd say that the Japanese army killing over 300,000 Chinese peeps and raping anywhere between 20,000 and 80,000 women in six weeks is pretty damn vile. And Japanese businessmen celebrating the anniversary by returning back and having a weeklong orgy with hundreds of Chinese prostitutes is pretty fucked up too...
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Sep 29, 2005 5:07:41 PM CDT
Who cares if the GI Joe characters were all Vietnam vets...
by pops freshemeyer
Just hire Rob Liefeld to update them Heroes Reborn style, so they served in the first Gulf War. Hell, let Liefeld write and direct it all. I can't wait to see how he would frame the shots so that nobody in the movie had feet...
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I'll pick up Year One next time I visit my comic shop.I always wanted to check out Swamp Thing so I guess now's a good time.
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Milli Vanilli was pretty bad, too. Neil Diamond...Two kinds of people in this world: those who like Neil Diamond and the rest of us.
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...halfway serious is just too much. I can go a quarter of the way, a third of the way, a tenth of the way serious, but when you get halfway there, it's too serious for me. I defy you to say serious comic book site with giggling.
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Please go back and replace the offending line of my WOLVERINE review with the following: "But a story tied into such an event
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Sep 29, 2005 6:39:27 PM CDT
I Keep Tellin' Ya, Bug, THE NEW AVENGERS Is Really THE NEW D
by buzz maverik
Dr. Strange. Magneto. Emma Frost. Daredevil on hand in the beginning. Luke Cage. Let's see: Strange, Cage and DD actually were Defenders (well, as much as anybody can actually be a Defender). Generally, I define the Defenders as any group of superheroes centered around any of the established Defenders (Doc, Hulk, Silver Surfer, Sub-Mariner, Valkyrie and Nighthawk) for a specific mission. NEW AVENGERS is very DEFENDERS.
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Alderaan was pretty bad
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Gus, I agree completely. Colorists contribute so much these days that there are times when they should almost get co-artist credit. I mean, I shudder to even *think* about what Michael Turner's stuff would look like without shiny colors to make it palatable! Maybe I need to start crediting these guys alongside pencillers in my reviews, eh? Hey, I actually DID in my WOLVERINE review! Rock on, me! Funny, though, you can tell it was a late addition to the review 'cause I forgot to put the HTML line break between it and the publisher credit - the shame! ****** By the way, the guy who is WITHOUT A DOUBT the mack daddy of coloring these days is Dave Stewart. He does that gorgeous painty thing on CONAN, he's colored all those gorgeous B.P.R.D. miniseries that Guy Davis draws, and he aided and abetted Darwyn Cooke on DC: THE NEW FRONTIER. Here is a guy who could teach the noobs a thing or two.
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I did miss your mention (3/4 of a line) of Mr. Villarubia's contribution in your review. No matter what, this book is beautiful and I believe half of it is because of the coloring. I agree with you on Dave Stewart. I noted his work on TNF and since then, I can't help but notice how it embellishes other comics I 've visually enjoyed since (wow, I love my syntax). Another crazy colorist, is the fellow who collaborates with Morrison and Quitely. I believe he did so in We3 and will again with All-Star. Unfortunately he is not named neither at the DC.com nor at the solicitations. I love his work and he really does compliment the excellent art of Mr. Quitely.
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Dave, I have to disagree with yer review, on a couple of points.
First, if you have an opinion of the medium as one where "serious" subjects are off-limits, I never, ever want to hear you complain about how comics aren't respected as "serious" art, something I complain about ALL the time. Comics grew up addressing politics. First Superman fought gangsters, then nazis. The whole premise of the X-men is political, and this story falls right in with those philosophies of peace, war, and racism.
Second, your comments on the internal logic of wolverine's actions seem like you're picking nits. The primary reason Wolvie didn't free everyone was that it would have made a boring story, one more appropriate to Captain America. Beyond that, freeing everyone on one particular day would have preceded fresh trains of victims arriving the next. The story also raises some of the very valid questions we're still asking about the holocaust today. Why didn't ANYONE fight back? Martial resistance in the camps was pretty rare, except for the notable exception of (you guessed it) Sobibor. I thought Millar's point had wolvie fighting the IDEA of murder in a very charles xavier way, peaceful resistence. The story works so well because it's so against his character's nature. He's the wild beast constantly looking for peace, and you see him resist in a really peaceful and creepy way very early in his chronology.
As far as crassness, I valued Millar's respect for and confrontation of these themes, that certainly need as much examination from as many angles as possible. And my grandmother is a german jew, and she got out.
I agree with you on your point about Millar's essy re:Eisner. It kind of screamed, "Hey everyone, I knew Eisner! I'm so cool!" But I forgave him for it, because I think this issue might turn out to be a turning point in a very talented writer's young career, kind of like Dylan's "Song to Woody."
As for your objection to his 9/11 analogy, I'll repeat one thing my ex-girlfriend told me right after the towers fell. She's from Heidelberg, and I asked her how it felt to be in America at such a weird time. She said, "I'm German. We tend to get really nervous when all the flags come out." -
In fact I think Alan Moore basically apologized for writing it because that book started what he sees as everything that is wrong with comics.
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...sorry, guys. You're so closed-minded about this stuff. Let's not forget the Huutu and the Tutsi butchering each other in tribal warfare for the last 30 years. Or any of the wholesale rape and slaughter that goes on daily all over Asia, Africa, Central and South America. If you name one or two alternates, you might as well introduce the next dozen, cuz they all have some pretty horrible low spots. Face facts: Hitler and the Germans who went along with him were involved in the most ruthless, brutal and effective ethnic slaughter since Whitey hit North America, and we've dominated history as the victors ever since, but there's no one whitey to hold up as the standard bearer. As a result Hitler gets to retain the "honor" of Worst Guy Ever. You can name a specific month or year or whatever where things were really lousy elsewhere, but claiming the rape of Nan King or the Killing Fields were deadlier and more heinous than the entire Holocaust is baseless and ludicrous.
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stumbled upon this. probably the most amazing thing i've ever encountered on the internet. http://www.worldofantra.com/2005/index.php?T=1
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Bug, good picks! Except the ones I didn't like! Fer inst, I think the babes you picked are *too* babe-ish (only the Baroness should really make viewers go "DA-yamn!"), Christan Slater shouldn't be allowed to star in anything ever again, and while Ron Livingston was amazing in BAND OF BROTHERS, the guy's just too intrinsically mousy to play a charismatic dude like Flint. The ones I liked: Robert Forster as Hawk ain't half bad, the Duke and Stalker choices I could roll with, Snake-Eyes is just fine (though Mark Dacascos could probably manage it too), Roadblock pretty much *has* to be Duncan, Spirit works, the Gung-Ho dude (even though I've never seen him in anything) seems spot-on, and Michael from LOST would be just swell as Doc. ***** Now...I freely admit I don't track Hollywood types well enough to be very good at these dream casting lists m'self, but I've gotta at least take a shot. Here we go: Kurt Russell is General Hawk. Guy's got the action movie cred and the years on 'im to be believable as a general. **** Michael Biehn is Duke. ALIENS...TERMINATOR...'nuff said. **** Kiefer Sutherland is Ripcord, who never got a ton of screentime in the comics, but when he *did*, he was awesome. Remember when he fell for that balloon bear chick, went "Jack Bauer" crazy to try to get her back, and ultimately had that kick ass rifle vs. compound bow battle with Zartan on Cobra Island? We know Kiefer can do driven mixed with a bit of insane. He's the guy. **** Hilary Swank is Lady Jaye. Swank's tough but "cleans up good." That's Lady Jaye. **** My fave leader-type Joe, Stalker, would be played by Mykelti Williamson. Dude's been in a ton of stuff, from THREE KINGS to BOOMTOWN, but I know him best as the tough black cop from HEAT who tells Ashley Judd to drip a dime on Val Kilmer or her kid's gonna end up in Chino. He looks *exactly* like Stalker and is the non-whiteboy in the following pic: http://tinyurl.com/cjv3d **** What I want to know is, where's the love for the Joe's grimy wheelman, Clutch? Howsabout Dominic West from THE WIRE? He looks like dis: http://tinyurl.com/ajchk **** For Shipwreck? Umm...maybe Jason Lee? He's puckish. He can grow a beard. He could wear a parrot as an accesory: http://tinyurl.com/7zhme **** The team needs at least one other dude with some sea legs, and so for the official S.E.A.L. of the group, Torpedo, I nominate Benjamin Bratt. Not sure of Bratt's ethnic heritage, but I think he could play a Filipino like Torpedo. Did that just rhyme? **** As for the main tough gal of the team, Scarlet, is Dina Meyer still looking for work? STARSHIP TROOPERS proved she could be hot, but in a tomboy kind of way. Here she is gettin' her glam on: http://tinyurl.com/7u5aq **** And I think that's all I've got for now - I'm blanking on the likes of Flint, and I've got a few "old school" favorites I'm gonna have to think about before I can cook up matches for 'em: Rock 'n' Roll, Snow Job, and Mutt, to name a few. Got some ideas for Cobra, but they'll keep till next week.
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Sep 29, 2005 9:33:33 PM CDT
"First, if you have an opinion of the medium as one where "serio
by dave_f
Hawksquill, you're misreading. Here's exactly what I wrote, emphasis added: "The larger debate as to the appropriateness of bringing politics into CORPORATE SUPERHERO COMICS isn
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Monica Bellucci could pull it off if they skewed younger with the character: http://tinyurl.com/7fohf Maybe Catherine Zeta, too, or even Gina Gershon (who looks closest to Baroness in the original comics - a somewhat harsher lady in leather).
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For whatever reason, I just wasn't into Ted Naifeh's COURTNEY CRUMRIN (is it wrong that it seemed a little *too* macabre for kids to me? I know, I know: kids LOVE amorality...), but POLLY fits my sensibilities better. It's also beautifully drawn, as is anything Naifeh does. Favorite bit was when Polly first meets the pirates. She screams, the first mate screams, and then all the pirates start howling. Good fun!
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Oh but I did, twice even. Flutter ponies rule! And Rainbow Brite and the Star Stealer too. But hey, I was only 5 or 6 at the time. You can forgive a wee lil kindergarten girl for being disturbed by her first comprehendable encounter with death, right? And Optimus was a deeply loved character, I remember seeing his origin story and everything! And, well, to round out this bit on favorite 80s cartoons, may as well just go: "By the power of Greyskull, I am He-Man!" and "Thundercats, ho!".
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Sorry people. Real busy today. Didn't have time or energy for an all out rant before bed. But i prommis it's comming tomorow!!! Now don't you have something to look forward to!!!!
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...was BELLE & SEBASTIAN, the old Nickelodeon 'toon about the French kid looking for his mom and going on adventures with his Great Pyranees dog. But nobody but me ever saw it, apparently, and now folks only know the band that cribbed the show's name. Bastards! Still: someday I must own a Great Pyranees.
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Sep 29, 2005 10:59:01 PM CDT
Dave_F -- That Was Bill Maher's Quote About Refering To Peop
by zombiesolutions
and while i'd agree with you that equating the Nazis with current US policy may admittedly be a bit of a stretch, there are enough chilling similarities there to at least raise people's eyebrows and make them question where we are headed. sure Millar is overstating the case, but isn't that what comics are ultimately about? which is to say -- comics aren't about metered discourse, they're about overstatement. i don't want to see a roundtable discussion with Wolvie on the McNeil Leher report, i wanna see cleverly applied broad strokes of the brush and strawmen on fire.
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No. Maybe you meant superhero comics? In some cases, but one need only look to ASTRO CITY to see what can be done *subtly* with allegory and metaphor. ***** I also have a question for those who like their superheroes and politics mixed: what are some examples of cases where you think it's worked? Because all I keep thinking of beyond broad spectrum stuff (like X-Men's "prejudice = bad") is clumsy crap like all those "Cap vs. Guantanamo Bay" issues recently or...was it a Superman issue a year or two back that tried to liken Lex to Bush with a WMD story? Stuff like that. Someone tell me about some *good* ones.
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Sep 29, 2005 11:08:52 PM CDT
Speaking Of GIJOE -- Anyone Seen The New Anime Version On Saturd
by zombiesolutions
theres some pretty decent CGI cell-shading work, and Snake Eyes has, like, a whole ninja team or something. yes, of course, being anime, all the girls are cute and there are robots. i kinda like it. theres something quaint and silly about the whole thing that warms my aging gen-xer heart...
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Mostly, yeah. but even the artier / more literate indies are given toward exaggeration. look at ACME Novelty Library, for instance, or EIGHTBALL. They may traffic in more realistic sentiments (such as existential human longing), but both still employ quite a bit of exaggeration to get their points across.
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Sit on it
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Then my job this week was successful, darlin' :)
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that whole new gi joe cartoon is horrible...seriously...i cringe.
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Sep 29, 2005 11:20:44 PM CDT
How About That Kyle Baker Captain America Series TRUTH?
by zombiesolutions
that was a great example of superheros handling racism and political issues in a powerful and insightful way. (i was also going to put down V For Vendetta, but that may be more akin to the "broad spectrum stuff.")
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Maher kicks ass, but credit where due: in this case, with Stewart. Try Googling a line from the rant for verification. I looked for a video clip, but couldn't find it, so the best I can do is point you to every other person on the internet crediting the bit to Stewart. HOWEVER...you're probably not CRAZY wrong, Zombo, because I've no doubt Maher's expressed similar sentiments in his "New Rule" bit, possibly even before Stewart knocked it outta the park.
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If you're gonna try and do a little politickin' and social enlightenment, don't beat me over the head with a sledgehammer. Just a modicum of restraint, subtlety, and an actual point go over much better.
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New Rule: Stop saying anybody or anything is like the Nazis, okay? Republicans aren't like the Nazis. Even Neo-Nazis aren't like the Nazis. Nothing is like the Nazis...except for Wal-Mart. (i think this is only an excerpt, though, i coulda sworn he said the part about "you know who's Hitler? Hitler!" as well, but, i'm a big fan of Daily Show too, so maybe me wires is crossed.)
____ http://www.hbo.com/billmaher/new_rules/20050415.html -
appy polly lodgies, Dave_F
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My quote's absolutely from Stewart, yours is absolutely from Maher. Same topic, same thoughts, slightly different wording. Stewart's was also a minute or two longer, easy, and accompanied by video clips of politicians bandying "Hitler" and "Nazi" around with abandon.
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Sep 29, 2005 11:44:50 PM CDT
"don't beat me over the head with a sledgehammer. Just a mod
by zombiesolutions
wait, so you're saying it was both overstated and understated at the same time? how is that even possible? _____ also, in terms of restraint and subtlety -- you've found this in a superhero comic... where?
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is this vaguely akin to TOP TEN? i loved TOP TEN; at least when Moore was writing it.
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Batman one-punching Guy Gardner.
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LOL! noice.
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is a fantastic book, busiek does beyond stellar work on it. you should pick it up.
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Nah, not too close to TOP TEN, though there's an overarcing humanity I'd say they share, and maybe a sense of optimism amidst dark times. ASTRO CITY is the place where Kurt Busiek examines superheroes as metaphor, so that, for instance, his Superman analogue - Samaritan - spends so much time saving people that he never has enough time to relax or enjoy his powers on any level save the practical. His story, a done-in-one tale, is about not having enough time to do the things we want in life, and like many ASTRO CITY stories, beneath all the gaudy trappings, it's steeped in reader identification. But Samaritan's not the lead of the book - the focus changes with each story, and stories range from one-shots to multi-part arcs. Sometimes the book's told from the point of view of heroes, sometimes villains, sometimes bystanders (think MARVELS). And I've seen it touch on a huge, huge array of topics. One of my favorite stories is about, of all things, the art of reporting, of verifiable sources, and the nature of "truth" - I even remember THE COMICS JOURNAL being stunned at its quality at the time! Another follows a crook who catches sight of an unmasked superhero in an alley and spends the rest of the issue imagining the various consequences of using the information. More recently there was a story about an aging hero who...oh, just read my review and we can save some time: http://tinyurl.com/acdkn It's one of the wilder issues as far as the trappings go, but the review should give you an idea of the metaphorical stuff that operates a little below the surface. And while ASTRO CITY's scheduling has been sporadic, and it's had a few weaker storylines between the winners, I can say with certainty that you cannot go wrong in picking up the first trade, ASTRO CITY: LIFE IN THE BIG CITY. For better or worse, I think it's still got the series' best stories.
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Nah, not too close to TOP TEN, though there's an overarcing humanity I'd say they share, and maybe a sense of optimism amidst dark times. ASTRO CITY is the place where Kurt Busiek examines superheroes as metaphor, so that, for instance, his Superman analogue - Samaritan - spends so much time saving people that he never has enough time to relax or enjoy his powers on any level save the practical. His story, a done-in-one tale, is about not having enough time to do the things we want in life, and like many ASTRO CITY stories, beneath all the gaudy trappings, it's steeped in reader identification. But Samaritan's not the lead of the book - the focus changes with each story, and stories range from one-shots to multi-part arcs. Sometimes the book's told from the point of view of heroes, sometimes villains, sometimes bystanders (think MARVELS). And I've seen it touch on a huge, huge array of topics. One of my favorite stories is about, of all things, the art of reporting, of verifiable sources, and the nature of "truth" - I even remember THE COMICS JOURNAL being stunned at its quality at the time! Another follows a crook who catches sight of an unmasked superhero in an alley and spends the rest of the issue imagining the various consequences of using the information. More recently there was a story about an aging hero who...oh, just read my review and we can save some time: http://tinyurl.com/acdkn It's one of the wilder issues as far as the trappings go, but the review should give you an idea of the metaphorical stuff that operates a little below the surface. And while ASTRO CITY's scheduling has been sporadic, and it's had a few weaker storylines between the winners, I can say with certainty that you cannot go wrong in picking up the first trade, ASTRO CITY: LIFE IN THE BIG CITY. For better or worse, I think it's still got the series' best stories.
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Nah, not too close to TOP TEN, though there's an overarcing humanity I'd say they share, and maybe a sense of optimism amidst dark times. ASTRO CITY is the place where Kurt Busiek examines superheroes as metaphor, so that, for instance, his Superman analogue - Samaritan - spends so much time saving people that he never has enough time to relax or enjoy his powers on any level save the practical. His story, a done-in-one tale, is about not having enough time to do the things we want in life, and like many ASTRO CITY stories, beneath all the gaudy trappings, it's steeped in reader identification. But Samaritan's not the lead of the book - the focus changes with each story, and stories range from one-shots to multi-part arcs. Sometimes the book's told from the point of view of heroes, sometimes villains, sometimes bystanders (think MARVELS). And I've seen it touch on a huge, huge array of topics. One of my favorite stories is about, of all things, the art of reporting, of verifiable sources, and the nature of "truth" - I even remember THE COMICS JOURNAL being stunned at its quality at the time! Another follows a crook who catches sight of an unmasked superhero in an alley and spends the rest of the issue imagining the various consequences of using the information. More recently there was a story about an aging hero who...oh, just read my review and we can save some time: http://tinyurl.com/acdkn It's one of the wilder issues as far as the trappings go, but the review should give you an idea of the metaphorical stuff that operates a little below the surface. And while ASTRO CITY's scheduling has been sporadic, and it's had a few weaker storylines between the winners, I can say with certainty that you cannot go wrong in picking up the first trade, ASTRO CITY: LIFE IN THE BIG CITY. For better or worse, I think it's still got the series' best stories.
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Huh?
Did you misread what you quoted? -
Or crap-ass home computer? :D
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You wanna know who's like the Nazis? Your mom.***My fave cartoon from the 80s was Thundercats. Oh and...does anyone remember this cartoon with three cowboys who would like put on these badass armors and shit? Sable something, god, that was so amazing.***I read my first and last Astro City issue this day i had horrible food poisoning and now i can't read it because it gives me nausea by association. True story.
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and thanks for thrice posting dave :)
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Sep 30, 2005 1:30:11 AM CDT
You do what you have to to get through to these people, Blacktho
by dave_f
And I consider this, without a doubt, my most noble post for the 21st century.
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i'm generally not the biggest fan of superhero comics, but what you described sounds like the kinda a superhero stuff i do like -- the smart / insightful / literate stuff. i'll definately check that tpb out...
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Sep 30, 2005 6:49:31 AM CDT
El Vale -- Are you Talking GALAXY RANGERS? Or SILVER HAWKS?
by zombiesolutions
i loved GALAXY RANGERS.
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I bought the first trade a few years ago back when everyone was saying it was the next big thing. And it did nothing for me. Top 10's a different story, but I think that's largely due to Mr. Alan Moore.
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About serious comics like Acme Novelty Library & Eightball that "still employ quite a bit of exaggeration to get their point across".It just reminded me of an article I read in the new GQ.It was about A History of Violence.They talked about how people will have to suspend a bit of disbelief while watching it.Mainly because like Ghost World its based on a comic book which most people are probably unaware of.Interesting quote from the article about Maria Bello's character being nervy and intelligent."The postadolescent world of graphic novels where anything with XX chromosomes can,at random be a scold and an amoral bitch in heat".Whatever happened to Liz Beth?I swear that woman put me up on some of the coolest non mainstream stuff.
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Was it "Centurions"? That show actually rocked. Oh and the second Astro City trade, "Confession" is awesome too. There is a church in my town that looks just like the Confessor's, it kinda creeps me out. And I believe that that trade has the *amazing* #1/2 issue collected within too. Am I right or thinking of something else?
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Yeah it contains the short story The Nearness of You.I never read past the 2nd trade because I heard it got weaker as it went along.
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can also be questioned by other lone individual's viewpoints... by avoiding the usage of absolutes on certain subjects (ie: single most heinous human act), you won't have to qualify yourself later on. Why? Because human suffering and inhumanity is universal and everyone will have their own opinion on it. By quantifying it, you open a can of worms. That's fine, if that doesn't bother you to have to defend it over and over again.
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I'll have to go back to find it to make sure but there's an amazing issue of Comic Book Artist (#25) that contains a long interview with Alan as well as features on almost all of the ABC creative teams. There was also a cover article in the tabloid Arthur that featured him. I feel like I've come across it more than once so that, along with discussion of his magic practices and active disinterest in film adaptations of his work, the "Killing Joke" slamming has become a regular thread in his public dialogue.
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First off, the Casting Couch is the lamest thing I have ever seen in the comics section. That shit is fine for adolescents, I guess, but it's retarded and I'd prefer not to see it. Anyway, I also liked last week's New Avengers conclusion to the Sentry storyline, as well as several earlier issues. But I didn't like this week's issue. Pages of uselessness, a little bit of cool fighting, a tiny germ of an interesting plot. I really think Bendis needs an editor with some balls to tighten his shit up. I prefer Millar, because although both of them write slooowwww stories, a collected Millar Ultimates story, for example, kicks the ass of any Bendis Avengers story. Finally, I still actually re-read old Mr. Miracle stories and though I'd forgotten Shilo and want my Barda, I did enjoy this issue a lot. I have enjoyed all Seven Soldiers issues. Morrison is the bomb on this stuff! Final note, Day of Vengeance was just not my cup of tea and I quit it after the second issue, and even this review didn't make it sound good, although I love the Nightshade and Enchantress characters, I'd rather see the suicide squad.
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Sep 30, 2005 2:34:03 PM CDT
"I think it behooves writers to be a little cautious before mapp
by hawksquill
I couldn't disagree with you more. To use another Dylan analogy, you sound like the folkies screaming "Judas" at the newport folk festival when he played electric. And guess what? Highway 61 was his best album. The best artists use their milleiu as part of their pallette. And if you don't occasionally bump up against people's expectations (especially people like you whose expections of certain genres, like "corporate superhero comics" are limited), change never happens. Perfect example, Dr. Manhatten flattening the VC in Watchmen. That book worked SO well because no one saw it coming. In 1985, it wasn't a Vertigo book, it didn't give you any indication from the cover that it wasn't anything different from the Justice League. And then you opened it up... WHAM! Politics baby. It worked because it had bright colors, and was sold off the rack right next to Superman. I take your point on early Supes being propagandist, but it's much deeper and better than that. The riff that Chabon played on those issues in Kavelier and Klay, (which I found pretty believable after all the research he did) had JEWISH writers using their hero to beat the crap out of the nazis while their relatives were being persecuted back in Europe. Sure, WW2 era supes worked as propaganda, but I'm sure SIEGEL and SCHUSTER had a more personal stake in it. They didn't work for Roosevelt, they just hated nazis and wanted to punch them. THAT'S what makes golden age comics and the CHARACTERS so great, they were personal and universally American at the same time. "can you agree that it'd be a little confining to have this guy [Peter Parker] say, "I'm a Democrat, always will be" " I absoutely agree with that, because it's PARTISAN politics. But is it really objectionable for Wolverine to say, "I hate nazis."? Or for Xavier to say "Racism is bad."? Or for Alan Moore to say "The cold war was really like this big fake alien invasion that scared everyone into accepting the loss of democracy?" Those are all REAL political stances to me. One of the first comics I ever read is probably still the most political, God Loves Man Kills. I'll try to say this again, maybe it will stick: It's not Harry Potter, it's not Star Wars, it's the X-MEN!!!! It's not even Spider-Man, a book without a lot of history of politics, it's the X-MEN!!!! Do you understand that the x-men have ALWAYS been about the link between racism, power, and violence? And those themes have OFTEN dipped into political stories? Robert Kelly? Graydon Creed? Val Cooper? You feel "alienated" because you don't like Millar drawing subtle connections between Nazi germany and the Bush administration, and you're souring on the whole story because of that one little text box. Well, did you think Watchmen had anything good to say about the cold war and the Reagan administration? Was Watchmen too liberal for you? Was it a bad comic? "And telling me Wolverine didn't free a prison camp because it would've been "boring" is not just wildly unimaginative, but about the weakest kind of excuse for poorly built stories." Why is it weak to try to surmise a writer's intention? How was this story poorly built again? I tried to give you two reasons why what happened in the story happened. The first was EXTERNAL, and addressed the TONE and MOOD that Millar was hoping to acheive. And sorry, but when you're looking at that story from the viewpoint of a writer, it is the PRIMARY reason why that story IS the way it is. Very simply, the author didn't want to write a "great escape" wolverine comic. Would have been great for the Invaders, Superman, etc., but he had something more Eisner-ian in mind, he wanted to write a more human story. But I understand that you're confusing my discussion of the writer's intention with the argument you have with Millar's internal laws of logic, which is absolutely an understandable critique. Maybe Millar could have artfully addressed that better in his story. That's a valid flaw, and one you should point out if it bothers you. But I think you're being wildly unimaginative when you basically say that the ONLY valid story involving Wolverine and the Holocaust would be an action/rescue story. Anything where he's not sticking nazis and rallying the oppressed to KICK ASS just wouldn't fit his character. Kind of a simplistic view of a pretty complex character. I was so impressed with the TONE and MOOD that Millar acheived, as well as the THEMES of peace and violence he addressed and how they intertwined so seamlessly with Wolvie's character, I'm willing to give Millar the benefit of the doubt, and use my own imagination to fill in the backstory. Maybe Wolvie was on a secret mission to discover where exactly the nazis were hiding the ultimate nullifer from Red Skull's cousin, blah blah blah, maguffin, and freeing the camp would have jeopardized the mission putting millions more in peril, blah blah. Maybe he was looking for Magneto after being visited by Cable from the future to say that it was important to the future to free him from the camp, blah blah blah. Maybe he freed a camp before but the escapees were all found and shot, and he vowed to try a different way to undermine the camps. Maybe at this point in his life, Wolvie's not a superhero, and he doesn't want to be a superhero. Maybe he's the wolverine we saw when he first fought the hulk, and revenge is more important to him than rescue. Pick whichever one you like the most. Or use some imagination, and make up your own. WE DON'T KNOW THE REASON. But that's not the point of the story!!! Can you accept that he probably had a reason even if it wasn't forcefed to you? Or do you just assume that Millar doesn't know his character? So far you have two very criticisms that I am quite willing to accept, although I found my way around both of them as a reader: 1. Millar should have been more up front about Wolvie's motivation. 2. Millar shouldn't have compared Germany's rightward swing towards militarism with America's current rightward swing toward militarism. You lead those two criticisms into your main point, somewhat qualified, that writers shouldn't do politics because it alienates people who don't agree. Personally I view those two components of the story as irrelevent to Millar's MAIN point: The character of Wolverine understands that there are other, effective ways of fighting injustice than killing people. He is a psychological warrior as well as a physical one. I'm sorry that those two criticisms turned you off of a main point that I found pretty compelling (coming as it did after a pretty bloody run). If you disagree with the main point, that's fine. I don't. But I do disagree with your reluctance to discuss it.
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if so i love your work man keep it up!
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I don't know if this is the original Killing Joke denouncement but it does have a portion about the book and Moore's problems with it. And, if you're a fan, you should read the whole thing, it's great reading. http://www.blather.net/articles/amoore/
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Amen. Well said.
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I just read the issue last night. I know what Millar was trying to accomplish, but he made some incredibly poor choices in that story. If Millar had set it in, say, a Nazi headquarters building somewhere that wasn't in a camp, it would've worked. The way he did it was shockingly misguided--a truly stupid decision. To suggest that Wolverine, with the powers he has, would stand by idly and let hundreds and hundreds of prisoners die so he could play cat-and-mouse with three Nazi officers is so patently idiotic that editorial should have shot the story down before it ever left the planning stages. I understand wanting to make it scarier, creepier, more serious, etc. I also understand that the way it was done is just flat-out stupid. Logan's behavior was utterly unconscionable, considering he could have taken apart every soldier in the camp and freed thousands of people slated for death in a day or less. Which is why, in this case, setting the story in a real-life situation was a really, really, really, really bad idea. Wrong situation, wrong story. The story was written to fit what Millar wanted to do with the character, rather than taking the character into account and fitting him in to the story.
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I second Shigeru's (hope your honeymoon was great man!) post. I read and enjoyed this issue of Wolverine. I'm pretty sure hawksquill said everything and more that I would have, but let me just drop off my 2 cents. This issue doesn't have to be taken quite so literal Dave. What if Logan had another motive? What if he wasn't a "super-hero" yet in WWII and was just lost on his path to redemption? What if he liberated the camp later? What if he just didn't give a shit because he's Wolverine? What if x100? To me, this was like a ghost story or an episode of The Twilight Zone and I enjoyed it. And you know if Logan had gone on a 22 page berserker and said, "bub" that you probably wouldn't have liked that either, anything political that has to do w/ the Holocaust is going to be heavily debated like this, but anyway
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12:01 screening. its going to be great im sure. how about u u making the midnight show or catching it on the weekend?
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Sep 30, 2005 4:08:19 PM CDT
I Agree Sleazy. It Seems The Closer Comics Try To Get To Real L
by buzz maverik
Remember all those comics after 9/11 at Marvel. I understand the motivations, but I've always said the results were bizzare. Sorry, Marvel Universe, plane flying toward the World Trade Center, we'd get: "Professor Xavier, are you reading my thoughts." "Perfectly, Ororo." "I have set up a storm front and diverted the plane from the city." "Thank you, Ororo. Scott?" "Blackbird's in range, Professor." "Thank you, Scott. Logan? Kurt?" "We're ready, Charlie. The Elf'll bamf me into the cabin and while I carve the turkeys, he'll take the cockpit."
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Thanks
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...that really matter, let's skip the bullshit.
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And I really hate the idea of introducing Superman into the Marvel Universe. First, he makes just about everyone else redundant. Second, the other heroes all keep kissing up to him like he's the greatest guy that ever lived. Third, this stupid Void business is really annoying. Fourth, they ripped of Kurt Busiak's "always-busy" hero idea from Astro City #1. Sentry is like Hush. A character thrown in our faces who hasn't earned our respect. Plus, every Marvel comic I own is now invalid.
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...your kids are named Pietro and Wanda...you've ever looked at rooftops for places to attach a webline...you've ever been in a fist fight over whether he's called "The" Batman or just Batman, dammit!...you and your girlfriend have a song and it's "Godzilla" by Blue Oyster Cult or the theme from STAR WARS... you've ever imagined Bendis with hair...people getting Darkhawk and Nighthawk confused just irritates the hell out of you...you think that Blackhawk and Shadowhawk should have been added to the last gag...you routinely check yourself for signs of mutation...you can't understand why people exposed to radiation only get burns and cancer instead of cool superhuman powers...you've ever spanked Beppo while thinking about a chick who is blue, green, has two heads, is bald, has horns or wings, etc...You know who Beppo is...
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you added Sentry to the list of Wylies that you keep in that "special" notebook.
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Jamie Grant is the fellow who does the coloring and the digital inking in All-Star Superman, just like with We3. All-Star Supes will therefore look great. --- Guys, check out the preview of issue 1 at newsarama: http://tinyurl.com/dk8gl **** I really dig Dave Stewart's work on TNF and on Conan.
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Sleazy: "If Millar had set it in, say, a Nazi headquarters building somewhere that wasn't in a camp, it would've worked." Not really. He couldn't have blended in with the prisoners, making the guards think he was a jew. That was the whole point. Logan made the nazis really afraid not of a crazy mutant with claws but of their own actions. A la' The Tell-Tale Heart, forcing a murderer to confront his own actions through supernatural means. Buzz: "Remember all those comics after 9/11 at Marvel. I understand the motivations, but I've always said the results were bizzare." I was sold on the Spider-Man ish after hearing JR JR's interview on NPR, about how he actually went down to ground zero and sketched the rubble. He lived in New York, his dad made his life drawing the cityscape, and it had a real meaning for him to draw spider-man in the wreckage of a building he'd previously drawn him swinging around. JMS was pretty ham-handed in that issue though. But it definitely would have been MORE bizarre if they hadn't done anything, seeing as all their characters have always been based not in Metropolis or Gotham City, but New York. Sounds like a Marvel v. DC argument brewing, eh? Marvel's ALWAYS been more "real world" based than DC.
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I actually did like that comic better the first time I read it, when it was Peter David's Captain Marvel.
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And it's Donald Sutherland's hair from "Animal House".
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Sep 30, 2005 5:30:26 PM CDT
I, Too, Used To Think Marvel Was More Realistic Than DC. Then,
by buzz maverik
...I took the first of many breaks from comics. When I picked the habit up again after getting laid in high school but not being able to get laid in college (I soon realized I was going to a "commuter" school; what did I know? I'm the first and only Maverik with anything other than an honorary degree), I realized that was only what Marvel said. My heart is with Marvel. I was a Marvel zombie as a kid, but none of it is realistic. You want realistic, comics aren't your best entertainment. In the fake lettercol to my all time favorite comic series, Alan Moore's true masterwork 1963 which is a spoof of early Marvel, Stan and the bullpen (Moore has an almost unique ability to be able to satirize a subject without insulting it), a kid letter writer said to "Affable" Al : "Like everybody else says in their letters, your characters act and talk exactly like real people...although none that I know personally."...And no offense to JRJR in particular, but some offense to the post 9/11 CAPTAIN AMERICA creative team who compared themselves to Jack Kirby and the Golden Age heroes in WW II: The Big One, why didn't they enlist? No doubt they'd say they could do more for "the effort" by inspiring others, which means getting 18 year old idiots to enlist. They could do more with their talent and art, which they couldn't put at risk. Jack Kirby enlisted and fought. Stan Lee enlisted and wrote VD films and wrote and drew a comic encouraging GIs to make use of the free prophylactics provided by the military. Almost all those old guys fought. The new guys just wanted us to fight. I thought it over but decided that I could do more to inspire others by making fun of them on the internet.
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Alan Moore has also dissed "The Watchmen," and at various times has either pooh-poohed traditional superhero comics or praised them to the skies. He also prays to a snake puppet and is retiring to focus on his magic. Alan Moore is a very talented writer, but the man himself is an utter goofball and a loon, and I'd put no stock in anything he actually says.
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thanks vale.
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Now I am sure I won't buy it. No Scott Free no purchase. I dislike the secret identity switcheroos.
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Yeesh, i was only kidding around. Meant no harm. I just assumed everyone who makes it over to AICN, much less writes for it, is a nerd. If you want though, I can be your personal troll. I charge the standard union rate. Although, Ambush Bug has like 3 personal trolls. Why doesn't he ever share?
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Up your nose with a rubber hose.
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Then I'm sure you also stopped buying JUSTICE LEAGUE way back when just as soon as Shilo first took over the role.
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I have an audio interview where he discusses his various projects at length and sounds quite pleased with and proud of Watchmen. He's stated several times that he has good days and bad days, and his thoughts on his own contribution to the medium varies depending on his mood. But, like i said, he seemed pretty proud of his writing on Watchmen and described it as "a clever little book". Oh and Buzz: Speak for yourself, bub!
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I didn't buy the JL then. I didn't buy a lot of comics in the 90's. I don't care for the generational passing of the torch thing. The world has enough Flashes, Green Lanterns, Blue Beetles and Mister Miracles. If Scott Free was missing some trait that was preventing Mister Miracle from being successful then why can't the writers just add depth to his character? To me, tinkering with Scott Free is much prefered to replacing him. I wish DC would keep the classic characters contemporary and spend their efforts on creating new superheroes.
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At times, Moore has talked up Watchmen as something he's proud of; at others he's dismissed it as rubbish. Now, did "Watchmen" become *less good* when Moore was being peevish about it, and then magically become *more good* when he decided once again that it was alright? No, of course not; authors don't have the last word on what their works mean, much less how they should be accepted. The fact that Alan Moore hates "The Killing Joke" doesn't detract from the fact that it's one of the most compelling Joker stories ever told, portraying a villain who is simultaneously demonic and sympathetic. The converse is also true: the fact that Alan Moore loves "Promethea" does little to make up for the fact that the vast bulk of that series is little more than a boring, preachy screed about an aging hippie's tarot collection accompanied by some very nice art.
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...the man worships a talking snake puppet he met while was dropping acid. Now, I don't even respect people who worship *invisible* deities, which at the very least can't be proven *not* to exist. People who pray to inanimate objects they were inspired to worship while doing drugs deserve to be mocked as much as possible.
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brilliant writer, i want his talents and skills...the long mane and beard, the "magic" skills and what not i could do without unless they yield me zatanna ripped from the pages to actual human form with life and fishnets too...wait, what was the topic again?
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And also, last night, while reading it, my appreciation for Moore grew as i saw the Weeping Gorilla say "We probably expect too much from Goerge Lucas..." Moore is a brilliant writer and most of those, yes...they are insane. The magic and the beard and the creepy rings i love, they just add to the "experience".
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you'd have to delete me...praise the moore!
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The reality of the situation here, from my view, is that, like it or not, this is an opportunity to showcase a black hero in a cool comic. No slight to Scott Free. Just at this moment nobody's doing anything with the character anyway. Let's let him and Barda have a little private time alone and just hop on the Gloryboat with Shilo and at least see where Morrison's taking him. I suspect that the Christ-allegory is going to be taken to its logical endpoint here by Morrison with Mr. Miracle sacrificing himself to save the world at the end of the SSOV experiment. Which also opens the door once more for Scott Free to re-up in the yellow, red, and greens.
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Promethea wasn't a comic book. It was an especially pompous lecture on Magic For The Oblivious ("See 'The Tower'? You might not've guessed, but the drug-induced spirit of Aleister Crowley told me it was a 'male' symbol - 'cause it looks like a PENIS!") The sheer mind-numbing arrogance of the book's conclusion, in which the world is radically and forever transformed by listening to Alan Moore tell them about his magic hobby yet again, is simply astounding. The book was entirely carried by J. H. Williams; imagine it with ugly art and tell me honestly if the drivel left on the page would be worth reading. ------- As far as the Alan Moore "experience," I call bullshit on the beard, the rings, and everything else he plays up to jazz up his profile. Moore was one of the first comic writers to hype himself into a superstar by playing up his "affectations" into a mystique that would play well among comic book readers - a demographic known for salivating over ludicrous characters in goofy costumes. Now it's common to have writers known more for their egos than for reliably and consistently putting out good work. Warren Ellis writes his emails and posts like Spider Jerusalem because he's discovered that the "nasty bastard" persona is more popular than whatever's he's like in real life; Grant Morrison can barely go an interview without professing to have spent six years as an Aztec transsexual chaos magician in order to summon up the proper inspiration to write "Seven Solders: Zatanna." There may be grains of truth to some of this: Warren Ellis may be a real bastard in real life, Moore and Morrison may actually be supersitious idiots. But there's no denying that these are no longer merely character traits, but are in fact integral aspects of their comics' advertising and marketing machines. ------ And yes, I like most of the work all three of these writers have produced. But listening to them talk, it's hard to escape the conclusion that they're either idiots, or poseurs, or some combination.
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Alan Moore is a bigger hype machine than JoeyDaQ. And he's an idiot as well. I say Moore became a superstar because he wrote V for Vendetta and Watchmen and Killing Joke and Swamp Thing and From Hell and you name it...not cause he has a long beard. "But listening to them talk, it's hard to escape the conclusion that they're either idiots, or poseurs, or some combination" I'm sorry but i feel that's quite a pompous statement to make. I'm totally beneath you because i really admire them am i not?
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...but there's more than a bit of truth to what DeleteMe is posting, and I bet even the subjects of his raised eyebrow would agree at times. That is, depending on their mood, karmic state, and the alignment of the planets.
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Lizzybeth is off delivering Drawn & Quarterly comics to deprived Third World children, which is to say, "We're not exactly sure where she is," but we'll try to lure her back one'a these days. I miss her reviews, too, and just recently got into STRANGEHAVEN based largely on a review she did a year or two back. Honestly, I think all the superhero talk might've scared her off.
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Oct 01, 2005 3:58:54 AM CDT
Geez, Homer, are you worried that the Casting Couch is going to
by dave_f
'Cause once you've hit rock bottom... Ah, but I kid. I'm actually pretty proud of our TalkBacks, but I get a kick out of the Casting Couches as well. Just a bit of fun, y'know? Y'gotta expect some tomfoolery at a joint like Ain't-It-Cool.
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Oct 01, 2005 4:37:38 AM CDT
Maybe Logan couldn'tve blended with prisoners, but he coulda
by sleazyg.
...which woulda freaked out Nazi officers sumthin' fierce...and not just three of 'em, neither. Like I said, horrible concept poorly executed. Logan never made the Nazis afraid of their own actions at all. He just made 'em feel like while they were killing dozens a day there was one they couldn't quite kill. The word is "incompetence", not fear. And since, knowing what we know of Logan, his resurrections in this story were impossible the incompetence lies with the writer, not the characters. Loook, I'll level with ya: Millar ranks in my Top Ten Creators To Get Completely Pissed With list, but this issue was a train wreck.
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...that history show again and again how nature points out the folly of men. GODZILLA!
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First off, I should probably lose the term "corporate superhero comics" for the sake of this discussion and replace it with "Marvel and DC Universe comics." Yes, WATCHMEN is amazing, but it was a self-contained entity bearing almost none of the burden of the traditional, perpetuating Marvel or DC superhero title. It functioned, for all intents and purposes, like a creator-owned title, and your average reader wasn't even aware that the characters were based on old Charlton heroes. For creator-owned books, lines groomed to support mature themes (WildStorm, say), and really anything outside the Marvel and DC Universes...I'm open to anything. No limits. Within the Marvel and DC Universes, I think a certain amount of structure and restraint make for better titles. ******* As for Golden Age titles being "personal" because Jewish writers used 'em to fictionalize payback against the Nazis, while that was almost certainly an aspect of 'em, I can about guarantee no one in those times ever read them and felt they were reading something personal. You know...because EVERY WAR-RELATED STORY IN EVERY MEDIUM AT THE TIME WAS SHOWING NAZIS GETTING THEIR ASSES KICKED!! ****** "But is it really objectionable for Wolverine to say, 'I hate nazis.'?" Nah, that one's pretty universal. What I objected too was the somewhat less universal sentiment that equated post-9/11 America with Nazi Germany. That and the general crassness of a superhero revenge story in mid-Holocaust, but that's really a separate thing. ****** "One of the first comics I ever read is probably still the most political, God Loves Man Kills." Not to diminish GOD LOVES, because it's one of my favorite X-Men stories too, but how controversial is the sentiment "prejudice is bad?" Yes, it's political, but only slightly more radical than "women should be allowed to vote." It was a great story, told with very emotional stakes, and it did raise the specter of religion as a source of justifying prejudice (a first in X-books, am I right?), but in the end it's a mild political agenda. And it's still a broad spectrum approach. Mutants weren't a stand-in, for instance, for any one single minority, but rather for ALL minorities. ***** "But I think you're being wildly unimaginative when you basically say that the ONLY valid story involving Wolverine and the Holocaust would be an action/rescue story." I'm pretty sure I never said that - I was just contesting the your hypothetical that Wolverine freeing prisoners overtly would have made for a "boring story." Hell, who says the GREAT ESCAPE approach is the only way that could be depicted? An escape scenario doesn't preclude personal interactions, still using the commandant as a POV character, or really anything at all. What I'm saying is that Wolverine is a very defined character who's homicidal tendencies have always been balanced out, and usually exceeded, but his heroic qualities. To put him into a story where that's not the case, and then deprive him of any communication so the reader can't understand why...simply seems a poor use of the character to me. I think a fable works best with concise, understandable characters, and yet readers on message boards all throughout the last week have been trying to figure why Wolverine didn't free prisoners and why his powers were so high level. Clearly the specificity of the character is causing consternation and confusement in Millar's grim fable scenario, in much the same way the people were confused by the mourning presence of Magneto, Kingpin, et al. in JMS's 9/11 tribute in AMAZING SPIDER-MAN. To me that speaks to a failure of concept. I can see a strong story being told about a Nazi camp commandant hounded unto death by a prisoner more bent on vengeance than saving people - Clive Barker even covered that one? - but Wolverine is a weak vehicle for such a story. ***** "...I'm willing to give Millar the benefit of the doubt, and use my own imagination to fill in the backstory" I can sympathize with this, because I'm similarly charitable to stories *I* like. Take Shyamalan's SIGNS fer instance. Not a perfect movie, but I'm a guy who'll forgive a helluva lot for those movies that scare me in a novel way, and SIGNS absolutely did that with its oblique, weirdly intimate approach to an alien invasion. So when everyone else was freaking out over interstellar aliens who couldn't open doors, or their attempts to take over a planet whose vast amounts of water was toxic for them, I kept defending it with imaginative backstory. Who knows what motivated the aliens? Since the story's obliquely told and we never get in the aliens' heads, maybe they chose earth for some arcane religious reason, water be damned! And maybe the one who couldn't open the door was a slave subcaste engineered only for making crop circles, but incapable of much independant thought beyond that job! If the whole idea of the movie was to show something so weird as an invasion from the perspective of an isolated small tone, doesn't it actually *enhance* the story to have the aliens be so...well...alien? Oh yeah, all KINDS of justifyin' going on in my head. So, yeah, I get where you're coming from and I understand the desire to justify stories that simply work for us for whatever reason. Sometimes I think this impulse is the very reason so much truly awful storytelling happens in ALL mediums (isn't the author's JOB to tell us what we need to know?), but my resolve fades when I'm the guy doing the justifying. I think it's the very nature of stories. They get under our skin, they impair our critical judgement. Is that a positive or a negative? Depends on how whether writers are intentionally abusing it or not, I suppose. ***** "Can you accept that he probably had a reason even if it wasn't forcefed to you?" As mentioned earlier, it's the fable-like nature of the story that makes this a point of contention. Oh, it's not as if ambiguity is completely verboten in fables, but to really drive a point home (usually the intent in a short story like this), it seems to me a story element more likely to weaken than enhance. ***** Ultimately, I'm willing to acknowledge the subjectivity of reader justification for seemingly bad story choices, but since the story did little for me, you can't exactly expect me to join in on the justification bandwagon. For the record, as there seems to be some confusion, this criticism is *completely* separate from my complaints about heavy-handed politics in Marvel/DC superhero books. ***** By the way, Hawksquill, as a sort of extension of the idea of justifying ambiguity...what'd *you* think of SIGNS?
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Perfect? Nah, but pretty damn close to that for those who're fans of the show - a real crowd-pleaser. Funny, rousing, sad...all that good stuff. And I'm gonna sidestep any discussion of specifics, so as not to accidentally spoil it for anyone, but, yeah...gets my vote!
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It's like you're channelling Claremont circa 1977. Now if only *Claremont* could do that...
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This brings up the interesting topic of how much we interpret comics based on information gleaned from outside the medium proper. Shouldn't the actual story be the only thing we ultimately judge? It's a nice theory, but it gets tested all the time. For a lot of folks, a story by Micah Ian Wright, the STORMWATCH dude who lied for years about being an Army Ranger, would be about as welcome as burning dog poop...no matter what the quality of the story. Others swear off all things Byrne just 'cause the guy's such a jackass. And me...I once sword off NEW X-MEN only to be drawn back in by the genius enthusiasm that was coming off Morrison in his proposal for the series (reprinted in the first trade collection). There's a case where I was glad I got drawn back, because ultimately I warmed to the content on its own merits. But there's a related cautionary tale: I read Mark Waid's proposal for SUPERMAN: BIRTHRIGHT and was fascinated enough by his meta-contextual observations to pick up *that* trade. Whoa, momma, what a stinker that turned out to be! Caveat emptor like a muthafucka.
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But it's a muddy issue, like nearly everything in the strange, mixed-up world of superheroes who inspire thousands of stories, perpetually, over the course of decades. The rules are kinda shakey, y'know? James Bond's never had to be replaced, but that guy's only effectively been in 20 feature film stories. He's got it easy! But once you recognize that several of the heroes we consider the "originals" - Hal and Barry, namely - were in fact Silver Age updates to reinvigorate properties, it becomes a lot tougher to go the hardline route against updates. That said, you pass the torch enough and you do dilute the property. I think it was in Casey and Fraction's comics column that they were talking about fans who wished heroes age (or at least think they do), and they made the point that after a few generations of passing the baton, you lose the original, compelling origins. Superman's great-grandson wouldn't have the storytelling value of being "The Last Son of Krypton", and Batman's successors lose the whole mythic Crime Alley origin. And yet...and yet...you see what Johns did with Wally West for a few years and you almost think it could be done. In general, though, count me among those who'd rather the icons get a makeover than a replacement.
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Oct 01, 2005 2:13:44 PM CDT
"By the way, Hawksquill, as a sort of extension of the idea of j
by hawksquill
I'm usually very accomodating to artists/writers/directors. I've always thought M. Night was overrated, I thought sixth sense was decent and Unbreakable was just plain boring, but I liked Signs, despite the christian message that I found a bit pie-in-the-sky (Just have faith and god will kill the aliens, don't worry about it. Obviously M. Night believes that everything always works out all right in the end. I personally don't believe that that's true.) But the plot construction was nifty, I like it when lots of weird little mysteries/quirks come together and make sense in the end. For me, as long as a law of internal logic doesn't get overtly BROKEN, I'm cool. If I have room to wrap my mind around what's bothering me, I'm okay, as long is it's not too much work. Accomodating the aliens in SIGNS or Millar's Wolverine wasn't all that hard, so I bought both of them. I really LIKE ambiguity in a lot of instances, it's what sells a mystery. A lot of David Lynch films make you do a lot of work, but just the process of figuring out what the hell Mulholland Drive (or Lost Highway) was all about can be rewarding. reminds me of that Gaiman quote from when he did the princess mononoke script (paraphrased): American audiences like to get the end of a movie and say "Oh." Japanese audiences like to get to the end of a movie and say "Huh." I like a little mystery, especially in my comics. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the fucking phoenix force is/was, even though that ambiguity is actually a result of the stupid decision to bring Jean Grey back to life in x-factor. But for the most part, writers usually know a lot more about their characters than what comes out in the stories. I've written backstories in my head for characters that never get into the story, but I still know where they came from and what led up to that point. You learn that in Creative Writing 101. And because Millar seems like a pretty studied writer-- he knows how to put a plot together, he knows how to swing a reader's sympathies one way or the other-- I kind of assume that he has at least a vague plot thread in his mind of what happened to bring Wolvie to that camp.
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As it is, I didn't know they kept bringing him back; after the movie they changed the whole show and I faded off from it, to say nothing of those new CGI/anime versions..
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Oct 01, 2005 2:25:43 PM CDT
"I was a Marvel zombie as a kid, but none of it is realistic."
by hawksquill
I didn't say "realistic", I said "real-world based." As in the America of the Marvel Universe is closer to our America than the America of the DC universe. Usually in Marvel, the president is the actual president at the time, although he might not be named, he's usually drawn like whoever's in office. In DC, it's usually Lex Luthor some fictional president. There's no Metropolis, no Coast City in Marvel. I think there are advantages to both, I don't think one approach is better than the other. I kind of grew up on creators. My uncle got me into frank miller, so I read his daredevil stories AND his batman stories. I remember reading Ronin when I was like eleven, it was a trip. So although I was an x-men freak for a few years, I really follow writers. And Geoff Johns is one of my favorites right now, so don't think I'm anti-DC. Just two different storytelling approaches, both of them equally valid. 1963 was great, I got to ask Steve Bissette about that project, something he agreed to draw after retiring from mainstream comics.
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Oct 01, 2005 2:49:37 PM CDT
"Shouldn't the actual story be the only thing we ultimately
by hawksquill
Another great question, one as old as books. Here's what I think: If the research that you do OUTSIDE of the story makes it better, it's a great story. If the research that do subtracts from the story, not so great. For instance, knowing that Melville actually worked in a Customs House after a failed writing career makes "Bartleby the Scrivener" so much more brilliant. Knowing Heinlen was a pilot, Tolkein was a linguist, makes the works of those authors way better. Knowing about Robert E. Howard's life has made me really appreciate his writings. And knowing the work that JR JR put into that 9/11 spidey issue enriched it for me. You begin to see stuff on different levels.
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Oh yeah, and knowing that Mel Gibson is a wack-a-doo christian kind of makes me not like Signs as much. Although I still liked it! Especially the tinfoil on the head.
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if any have you haven't yet, i highly recommend checking out a history violence, saw it yesterday and it was muy muy bueno...now i must go find my browncoat!
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How essential is narrative point of view (omniscient or anchored to a character) to comics storytelling?
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No more, no less important to comics storytelling than it is to any other form of storytelling. The narrative choice is made by the author as the most effective way to tell the story and move his audience.
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It just seems that there's barely a lack of it in comics. I'm just thinking if it's such a strong device that's so widely used, there's probably a reason.. Like, take DoV for example. It was basically a straight story and there really weren't too many obvious character threads in the plot, yet Willingham used the 6-issues/6-character POVs, to good effect which spiced up the story I think.. And even Batman and Sasha in OMAC get some narrative POV bits.. It's obviously a complex question pertaining to specific stories and how they're best told, and maybe I just have the DoV model front and center in my mind.. and I just wonder if there's something about the form itself that likes the 'inner narrative boxes' that are so prevalent after thought balloons went out of style..
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Personally, i'm guessing that the current form that you're talking about is simply what the current crop of writers is just more comfortable with now that editorial edict has outlawed the thought balloons. Which I kind of hate. You know? There are some things that individual thought balloons accomplish better than an overall character-based narrative. It's similar to the effectiveness of a well-done musical -- and what Whedon pulled off so well in BUFFY with the musical episode. There are times when a story told through the perspective of an individual gives it an emotional impact it otherwise wouldn't have. But the thing about a musical is that it gives each character opportunities to share with the viewer their innermost thoughts and feelings in a way that taps into the emotional center of the viewer because music affects us differently than the simple spoken word. Likewise, in a play where an actor makes an aside to the audience or has an audible internal monologue (probably the most famous being Hamlet's "To be or not to be..." monologue), it is an opportunity for the playwright to reveal the inner thoughts and feelings to the audience. But, again, there's a break down that happens because either the monologue is noted more for its length and the actor's performance of it, or the aside kind of breaks the fourth wall and interrupts the emotional connection between the audience and the character(s). One of the unique aspects of comic strip story-telling has been the thought balloon. It is the only way I know of in narrative story-telling (outside of a novel) that can be used effectively to truly reveal the passions, thoughts, and feelings of each and every character without the bias of a narrator. An example being JUSTICE #1, which I thought was extremely well-written and the narrative choice of Luthor as narrator but without revealing him as such until the end was terribly effective. And the writer seems to "get" exactly what I was pointing at above by the Luthor narrative during the capture of Aquaman by Black Manta. Luthor narrates the thoughts of Aquaman during that scene, but of course, he has no way to truly know his thoughts (as an omniscient narrator would) and instead we are given Luthor's version of what he "thinks" Aquaman must be thinking. It's a distinction that was particularly interesting in that instance because it gave the readers insight into Luthor's perception of the arrogance of the superheroes. So, in a comic like that, a character-based narrative works well. But, if I had my druthers, I would encourage the general reentry into comics storytelling of the one aspect that is truly unique to the medium -- the thought balloon. I think that's why those of us who grew up on those old comics feel such an emotional connection to some of these silliest of characters -- because we came to know them intimately.
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Not that I am on topic or anything but there is a Tigermask comic book coming out soon. I think he started out as a manga character, then a cartoon character and then a legendary pro wrestler. I'm a fan of both Satoru Sayama and Mitsuharu Misawa as Tigermask 2. I love Japanese pop culture. I have an undubbed tape of the original Tigermask anime from 1970 or so. It was pretty violent for it's time. I guess that's why it didn't wind up on American tv. Now if they would only make an El Santo comic! Here is the article : http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=5923
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But are thought balloons really that different from narrative captions that come from characters? Take some examples of Wally West narrative captions: aside from the obligatory "..and I'm the fastest man alive.." stuff at the beginning, I don't see much difference between the two forms, because they both can reveal what the character thinks, except in the way things are said. Thought balloons, to me at least seem, well, devoid of sophistication and character ("Oh, I'd better not tell Jean Grey I like her..") vs narrative captions ("Jean means the world to me, but.."). Could just mean the writers nowadays are a touch more solipsistic, but captions seem less jarring and distancing. Sure, thought balloons might be innermost thoughts, but what gets put in them oftentimes lacked the flavor of how the character thinks. With captions though, because they're not visually linked to the character with little circles or squares, yet done in a tone more reflective of the character, it's like the book itself becomes the character. Thought balloons are more limited to specific panels and can't carry a narrative so well. I don't know if thought balloons would come back without seeming like a step backwards, but if manga ever has any influence, thought-shapes with images could be an interesting development, I think.. accents with efficiency.. But anyway, thanks.. I think I've come to a conclusion and can move forward with something: that I need to know how Grant Morrison sounds in narrative captions.
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I hear what you're saying. The difference is that a narrative by, say, Wally ONLY allows the reader to get into the "head" of Wally. Thought balloons allow the reader to get into the "heads" of any character in a story at anytime. That's the distinction.
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how we got to this disccuion on the wonderous world of baloons, thats and narritives with periods and these !!!, but a very nice back and forth there thalya and prof...thus why this talkback is th ebst among the myriad of talkbacks the exist on this site.
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One of the things that jumped out at me is just how much he makes use of all the comic book tools. He's one of the few guys unafraid to use thought balloons, and he'll also do omniscient narrative captions, also do sound effects, even write in a label over a character or animal in a panel if identifying it brings something to the story. Dude's a good case study for using the medium to its fullest.
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...is when Gibson is reading the UFO picture book alongside his two kids, and they hit this one page with a painting of a house that looks suspiciously like theirs. The camera pans down the image, and on the lawn you see what look like the charred bodies of two little kids. Very chill-inducing. Also very big on the scene where the baby moniter seems to be picking up alien signals - nothing like taking the innoccuous (sp?) and familiar and making it unnerving! As for the ending...yeah, it sort of the big disappointment of the film for me. I mean, even if we accept that God really did arrange Gibson's life and various tragedies in order to help his family one day kick the crap out of some aliens...is that the kind of squirrelly machinations you want in a supreme being? Not exactly the work of someone *I'd want to worship. Plus it just felt pat, felt trite. But like I said, I find special enjoyment in films that creep me out, so even with the ending I still dig the film. But even I won't try to justify that part.
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Thanks for the review, Superhero. I've been meaning to check it out one of these days, but I'll probably finish up on GUNSMITH CATS first, a comic with some of the finest four-color shoot-outs you'll ever see and a true rarity in our medium: supa-badass car chases. Like EXAXXION, it's got plenty of exploitational elements, but I thought they fit the mileu pretty well. Only thing that creeps me out a bit with Sonoda's stuff is when he breaks out the uber-young girls with boyish figures. It's not that there're many of 'em, but they ARE sexualized and that's taking it a bit far for me. It's a common manga thing, of course, where even twenty and thirty-somethings can look absurdly young, but those boyish-girls that look like they're eleven or twelve? Just...ewww. At least advance to wispy late-teens like River in FIREFLY, that's all I ask. ****** As an aside, if memory serves, CANNON GOD EXAXXION is chock full of sexual imagery, kind of like Moebius' stuff. The cyborg-girl...doesn't she morph into a speeder-bike thingee and you suddenly realize, "Uh, that looks like a guy's thingee"? Yep, here it is: http://tinyurl.com/cbm7q And here's another phallic cover: http://tinyurl.com/7w4w3 You've almost got to admire the overtness of it all, don't you?
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I love that movie. I'm not sure i agree the ending is "christian"...or at least i didn't think of it that way. I took it to mean something along the lines of "everything happens for a reason", and less like God shuffling his cards. Signs is ultimately a story about a man who's lost his faith. I believe it's a lot more universal than "a priest who stops believing in God"...thing is, this man just happens to be christian. It's a man who's lost his drive, that thing he built his life on top of, i think we all can identify with that, be it God or...Satan or whatever. That's the way i saw it tho'
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I've always thought that, yes, every tool can be used to tell a story, but not every story SHOULD use every tool, obviously. I think the right writer can make them work, can make them as sophisticated as every other tool available. I've heard people complain that hack-creators these days don't use thought balloons cause they're not cinematic...and i just don't think that's true. I think creators who tend to stay away from thought balloons do it because it's more "real life". May sound or read stupid but it's true...in life you don't usually know what people are thinking. Sometimes when i'm reading a comic i really don't want characters suddenly breaking the narrative in half and telling me exactly what's going on in their heads. Works on some stories, sucks on others. Sometimes i want to be in the dark. I want to guess what the characters might be thinking or the reason they might be saying something, instead of them explaining everything in detail.
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Thought balloons can be a great tool, but of course they're not for everything. In fact, I might even say I generally prefer 'em *not* around...just don't want 'em to become taboo.
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That's my problem with the state of the "balloons" right now. From what I understand, it's not just a crop of writers unable to use them effectively, it's also an editorial position for the writers to avoid using them. That's a mistake.
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I think thought balloons can change the LOOK of the page. They're all fluffy. Thought boxes offer more flexibility, they can be different colors, have different fonts for different characters, a la' Klein's lettering on Sandman. I loved the Purple Man's narration in Thunderbolts this week, just funny and creepy and fun.
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tabooing by editors is a mistake indeed. i figure you use the tools available and if used right you are successful, if not then not, but everything can be effective if you know how to use t. and has shaymalan gone into hiding after the village?
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The main writer of GI Joe, Larry Hama only used thought balloon once, I think iss #1 or 2 with Stalker. He went on to pen nearly 150 issues without using another. http://www.geocities.com/pageiv71/Michigan_Partisan.html
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...and from what I've seen, manga's got all kinds of options in this area. Hawksquill mentions that the actual puffiness of the baloons can be an off-putting aesthetic - well I've noticed that in manga, inner thoughts often don't have any drawn boundary around 'em at all. They're just written over the background, usually in an area without any busy linework. But sometimes captions are used as well. And hell, sometimes even dialogue, if it's meant to be an aside, appears without a balloon around it (like in some comic strips). Point being, if we don't like the aesthetics of some of our storytelling traditions...we should change 'em. There's value, obviously, in the classic "puffy" thought balloon because we all recognize it instantly and no one has to learn a new visual vocabulary. But nothing's set in stone. And I'm sure little experiments with this are going on all the time in smaller press books. Marvel and DC, when they experiment, tend to just play follow the leader. Those Frank Miller narrative captions from the mid-80s are still defining their worldview.
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I'll be damned. I don't think that ever quite registered for me, especially since the book was very traditional in most of its storytelling motifs. Thing that jumps out at me most when I look back on issues is how compressed the stories are. And not to their detriment - Hama had good control over rising and falling actions. But I've come across single pages with no less than THREE scene cuts. First scene's the Pentagon, where someone reads and ominous briefing. BAM! Next tier of panels is Destro and Baroness conspiring against Cobra Commander. BAM! Last tier is a couple of Joes staking out a Cobra safehouse and deciding their next move. It's actually cool as hell. There's a strong sense of momentum and the confluence of events. In fact, the other day, for fun, I was working on a list of favorite single-issue comics, and G.I. JOE had a surprisingly high representation. Hama did extended arcs too, but the guy delivered in spades when he wanted a single issue to stand on its own.
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On both Wolvie and Cannon God. While the Wolverine story bore more resemblance in structure to an EC comic or a Twilight Zone episode than typical Eisner fare (although he certainly had a penchant for serious morality tales), its clear that Millar intent was to write a "message" comic tied to Wolverine's powers and continuity by only the tiniest slivers necessary to tell his tale. It's not disimilar to what's been done with established characters before (Batman B&W for example). Talkbackers can validly argue if the regular Wolverine book was the approapriate place for this story, but that seems beside the point to me, as this issue was clearly a one shot deal clearly intended as a (slightly off, I think) homage to Eisner. As to the argument that the argument that Wolverine should have liberated the camp: that's a slippery slope. Should the Justice League fought in Vietnam? Should the Avengers joined MLK in the March on Washington? Could the Ancient One prevented have prevented the invasion of Tibet and the rape of Nanking? There's no proper answer and its really up to creators how much they insert real world situations into fictional universes, if at all. Finally, while one can like/dislike this story and agree/disagree with its politics, message stories -- even ones with overtly political points of view-- have long been a staple in the comics medium, including in-continuity superhero comics. I won't argue the merits of this particular story, but Millar's not doing anything that hasn't been done many times before. CANNON GOD: I've really enjoyed this series' clean, beautiful artwork and ruthless yet lightly comic storytelling, but I would go even farther than Dave_F: it seems the primary reason for this manga's existence is to come up with increasingly over-the-top visual metaphors for the penis and breasts. Still, it may be adolescent as all hell, but I think it is very cleverly done and you got to admire an author who's that committed to his theme. ULTIMATE FF: I've really been enjoying the artwork (has anyone ever depicted Mr. Fantastic better than Land, Jae Lee and McNiven?) and I actually like Millar's characterization of the FF, I've yet to see a completely satisfying storyline and have found the reinvention of major villains pretty weak so far. The new origin is decent but flawed. The introduction of Dr. Doom was a severe disappointment. The trip to the Negative Zone got off to a good start--Annilhus was initially intriguing-- but crashed and burned in the end. The whole zombie Marvel earth left me cold -- was it really worth 3 issues? The intro of the Inhumans seemed pointlessy truncated (that was a storyline worth spending some time developing). I like the Ultimate Mole Man and the Mad Thinker was probably my favorite UFF story to date, but otherwise this series has just has just delivered one misfire after another. Indeed, the time travel and Fantastic Voyage scenarios that served merely as intros for the Zombie and Inhuman storylines were more compelling than the ensuing plots. I've generally liked Millar's work, but this comic is screaming for someone to make good editorial choices if it is to ever realize its potential. DAY O VENGEANCE: I'm a big Fables fan, but I couldn't disagree more vehemently with the review. This is one GODAWFUL trainwreck. I find Omac/Infinity a bore in general, but Villains United is vastly superior. The only redeeming feature is Detective Chimp, but let's face it: everybody loves monkeys. By the way, contrary to what was said in earlier posts, the original Ragman had powers -- strength of a strongman, impact of a boxer, agility of an acrobat, others -- imparted to him by down and out friends killed by local gangsters. Not one of the greater DC characters, but a lot better than the current incarnation. What a waste of paper. MR. MIRACLE: I really like this new version so far and I love Morrison's take on the mythology of the New Gods. I'll take SSOV over Omac: much more fun, great artwork (Pascuel Ferry rocks on MM) and not a hint of the dreariness that pervades the DCU. Please don't sleep on this. ULTIMATES: Couldn't care less who the traitor is right now (although I'm not fully convinced Hawkeye is dead). Just get on with it for fucks sake. This. is. taking. for. ever. ROCKETO: Totally on point review. Absolutely brilliant artwork severely marred by an incomprehensible storyline. There is the outline of a really great epic in there somewhere. Unfortunately, its an outline at best. Still, I picked up the book: the artwork is that good. Apologies and appreciation for patience with the long post -- a lot of stuff I needed to vent.
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Yep, there's a lotta sexual elements in Cannon God...it's defenitely NOT for the kiddies but it's not hentai by any stretch of the imagination. It's just bits of nudity here and there and some sexual tension coming from the sexually inexperienced lead character but for the most part it's pretty harmless. Much like the stuff in GUNSMITH CATS...which is, yes, one of the best action comics EVER. I don't think I'll EVER get over how well done the car chases were done in that book. It was amazing. My reaction was probably much like movie audiences reacted to car chase sequence in Steve McQueen's Bullit...I was just amazed how well a comic artist was able to pull off a series of compelling car chases. I actually got really into them reading those books. Freakin' GREAT stuff. As for manga girls looking like teen boys...well, not every comic character can be built like a tank like Wonder Woman or the Invisible Woman. I get what your talking about but one of the reasons I like manga is that the characters are all different body types. I imagine it's what makes some girls/women so attracted to manga. Not every female character has 40 double D sized breasts. I like that some of the girls have less than ample bosoms. What mostly disturbed me in a lot of manga is how many of them actually have GUYS that look like GIRLS. I mean, when I'm reading a story or watching an anime and it takes me a good quarter of the book to figure out the gender of the character...something's not right!
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Oct 02, 2005 5:35:49 PM CDT
"I get what your talking about but one of the reasons I like man
by dave_f
Well, I don't know about *that*. I see about as many variations on overweight as I do in American comics, which is to say: none at all. I guess old people are sometimes fat - the pudgy grampa types, the evil old crime overlords...but everyone else is young and some variant of thin (thin and busty, thin and flatchested, etc).
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So I log on and see that KS has responded to all the posts for the Clerks 2 TB. I fired off that he should finish his books (Spidey/Black Cat & Daredevil: Target from like 8 years ago). To my surprise there was a response. Apparently Spidey is done (sure) and DD will be out mid-06 (after Bendis leaves DD I guess). I know real comic geeks could probably care less, but I did like the work he did on Green Arrow. He also posted that he won't be writing books again (right) to which I'm kind of disappointed. This last fiasco was too much, but I dig his writing. Should he get another shot? If so, what would it be?
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we can get morrison, moore, gaiman, miller, slott or someone to hit this talkback...hell stan lee would be fun too.
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I'd love nothing more than to get Moore here and pick his...beard? But the man doesn't own a computer. Let's get Morrison! Really, i can be his bitch if that's what it takes.
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probably end up with some guy who runs a comic stand named DAVE_F or something...wait...er...jk...but we could snag a chuck dixon or a um rob liefeld or somebody "good" like that.
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In other news, let's remember that Gail Simone's stopped by in the past. And just the other week, I caught cartoonist Ted Naifeh (COURTNEY CRUMRIN, POLLY & THE PIRATES) dropping a comment. Mostly, though, I think creators know that the unmoderated TalkBack isn't the friendliest environment for 'em. Has me thinking of Anthony Michael Hall and his geek pal walking into the black bar in WEIRD SCIENCE. Bendis or someone peeks in here, and you can practically hear the scratch of the record needle as the music stops. I actually think it'd be interesting and we'd get some good conversation going, but the trolls'd probably make the scene and fuck it up for the rest of us.
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I liked his GREEN ARROW well-enough at the time (dunno how well it holds up), but based on EVERYTHING ELSE, I don't think he's good enough for us to put up with the Hollywood prima donna bullshit.
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Oct 03, 2005 1:35:01 AM CDT
I guess when I said body types I meant that not all of them look
by superhero
I undertand what you mean about overweight but I have seen some characters being more "rotund" than your average comic book character. I just can't think of examples right now 'cause it's late and I'm tired...:O)
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Oct 03, 2005 2:18:53 AM CDT
I think this would be such a cool place for creator discussions
by el vale
All of us regulars and cogs and @$$holes and former @$$holes...i think we could host great back and forths with the pros, if they'd be willing. This is the smartest and kidliest geek place on the internet and we have no moderators. To avoid trolling, we could...well, not make a big deal about Bendis coming here. Or something. Never gonna happen tho', but a boy can dream.
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I didn't catch him, what'd he say? I remember Fialkov popped in for 2 seconds when someone mentioned Elk's run, but it was mostly a promotional visit...mostly.
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Oct 03, 2005 3:33:45 AM CDT
I forget the specifics, but I think Naifeh answered a Question o
by dave_f
Plus he was all, like, "Bendis suxx0rz!", but mostly that first thing.
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ban trolls, not me...heaven forbid we have ppl working on batman stuff join us here for moviemack will seek to do his "moviemackish" stuff.
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Oct 03, 2005 11:55:26 AM CDT
amen to that blackthought, and btw you can call me many things,
by the heathen
wont'bie (pardon the moviemackish) 'cause I gorram loved that Serenity movie!!! It's a damn shame that there wasn't some better TV promos because I think that they ultimately didn't help at all. 10 mil isn't bad for a September release either. Hopefully they will at least make their 40 mil budget back. Hey, I'm not going to get banned for being off topic am I? Serenity was a comic
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Do you sound like Fezz on THAT 70'S SHOW? Ricky Ricardo? Scarface?
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Jennifer Garner would finally be properly used as SCARLETT
Aaron Eckhart has been my pick for CAPTAIN AMERICA for a long time now so he would work as Duke.
hmm COVER GIRL? -
Really, truly horrible. That godawful dull afterlife? The whole "Stanley and his monster=pedophilic rapester"? Ugh. Tasteless and unncessarily dirty, as was the introduction of a flirtatious underaged prostitute with AIDS. Hamhanded, poorly executed garbage. Ironically, I really enjoyed his DAREDEVIL run. The biggest problem with his two Marvel minis wasn't *his* problem, either--it was editorial's, from Alonso up to EIC Joey Quesada. Look, it's not just for Kevin "I couldn't stick to a schedule if I was covered in Velcro" Smith. With *any* miniseries *ever*, you should have the last issue at least written, if not drawn, before issue one goes to the presses. If they had done that with Smith's two minis or with Quesada's Daredevil mini, they wouldn't have been off-schedule. They just would have been published at a later date but on a regular schedule. With ongoings, the same rule should apply: have at least 4-6 issues done before #1 drops. That way when something unexpected happens you have a little breathing room. It's not really that hard to figure out, y'know?
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Oct 03, 2005 1:42:45 PM CDT
They're Callin' Ya Talkback Chimps Because They Saw What
by buzz maverik
We fight about who came up with the name all the time, but it was me (it's a Lee/Kirby thing we got goin' on over credit). Kevin Smith JAY & SILENT BOB BECOME REDUNDANT talkback where Harry mentioned a joke in the movie about Jay & Silent Bob taking on Talkback Assholes. I wrote back: Talkback Asshole # 1 Here...and thus a legend in my own mind was born. The name became @$$hole which at first I hated because I thought it was a cop out, but I came to find it funnier than the word "asshole". Sort of like how filmmaker Alex Cox discovered that the words you substitute for swear words and vulgarisms are funnier when he was editing REPO MAN for TV. The orginal comic reviewers, Greyhaven, whom we slew on their own throne, hated the word and tried to call us everything but, using our own Vroom Socko's name for the group The Screaming Retinas (which we all liked but was ultimately a name created by someone else -- the great Evan Dorkin). Greyhaven was the first one to come up with the brilliant "They call themselves @$$holes and they live up to the name." To which I replied: "You betcha, bay-bee! Every day in every way, every time! Yer holding a chess club meeting and a motorcycle gang has just shown up!"
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After trying to read all the Kevin Smith stuff and wondering why the hell everyone is freaking out over the Browncoats (and giving undue hatred towards them/me/us) it's nice to come back to the most civilized (hee hee) of talk backs here at AICN.
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Being a true prodigy of nature, having "a great ear" as we say, and having learned english by reading comics and watching american tv and movies, i can asure you i have no "latino" accent or anything linguistic that can be easily distinguished. And YOU sir, you frighten me! Especially by the end of the week when you start getting random and nostalgic and insane all at once...and i can't help but watch. Keep up the good work.
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Could you guys explain to me what this whole Browncoat thing is? Like, what the term means (i know it has something to do with Firefly/Serenity)and why what Harry said was insulting and all that?
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I've recently read the Runaways HC, Y: The Last Man - Vol 5, Brubakers Cap run thus far, and a bunch of other issues. I liked Runaways a lot and when the mole was revealed I was relieved because that character was my least favorite. Y was pretty cool too. I haven't read past issue 31 yet, so I'm a little confused in much the same way Yorick was about the monkey shit (all this monkey talk is bananas!!!) speaking of which, where the hell is that little dirty Schleppy? Haven't heard from him in months.
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Oct 03, 2005 2:36:38 PM CDT
Yeah, I liked Serenity even if I wasn't SO crazy about Firef
by superhero
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Oct 03, 2005 2:57:54 PM CDT
Vale, about Harry being insulting with the Browncoats thing.
by the heathen
Browncoats are Firefly/Serenity fans simply put. The deeper defintion is that the Browncoats fought in a Galactic Civil War of sorts against the Alliance that runs everything in the newly terra formed galaxy. I was insulted by Harry because just because he doesn't have his geek jones for Serenity he starts calling it nonsense and having any Serenity related posts deleted because he can. And you know what, that's fine. This is his fort and we were just invited in to play. But for someone who defends some bizarre shit, it just rubbed me the wrong way. He even said himself that he is usually on the other side of the fence (and he did like the movie) but it's like he couldn't resist to throw a rock at the particualr fanbase that he wasn't a part of.
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He actually deleted Serenity related posts? That's just wrong, isn't this like the geek bath house? And this was absolutely unjustified? Cause people can be real fucking dicks sometimes, we all know that, maybe some Serenity fans got "violent" with people who don't share their love of the show/movie. I wouldn't know cause i never read any other talkbacks aside from this one, and all of you have been pretty decent about the whole thing.
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COG SMOOCHES UNITE!...mmmm...are team name....COG SMOOCH LEAGUE?...the ANTI-MOVIEMACK-MEN?...the LEAGUE OF EXTRAODINARY COG SMOOCHES? how was the weekend boys and lady calculator? will harry ever love the browncoats?
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Oct 03, 2005 3:46:17 PM CDT
that probably wasn't the best Browncoat def, but you got the
by the heathen
The side that fought against the Aliance and lost are now known as Browncoats.
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you're awesome blackthought. Had a kick ass wedding to film/attend to counter my previous week of related murder. Saw Serenity yesterday and loved it in a special kinda way (I'll divulge more later) and that lil' moviemack never got banned and he said some crazy shit, a lot worse than Serenity fans have.
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My weekend was alright, lots of girlfriend time, some fights (ugh), and no time to write, which sucks. And some drawing too.***Nic Cage has named his kid Kal-El Coppola Cage, which is certainly geeky but not as bad as Pilot Inspector. The Coppola part's the worst part.
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Oct 03, 2005 5:04:48 PM CDT
This Is The Second Talkback In A Row Where A Cog Has Said I Frig
by buzz maverik
See, according to that magazine of hard science, DETAILS, the Y chromosome is shrinking. It's not even what it was 50 years ago (so the next time you wonder why comics have so much talk and so little action, you need to grab a buddy and have him hit you in the face as hard as he can and you hit him in the face as hard as you can...Chuck is a prophet!)and will one day vanish all together. I'm scary because when I was in the military cloning experiments (funded by donations from Lucasfilm in exchange for bad movie ideas) it was determined that I am Double Y, which is common in both convicts and billionaires. If the Y chromosome has to go out, let it go out swinging, in every sense of the word!
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in a scary-makes-sense kinda way
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Arrested Development is almost on. Later Cog$ and @$$holes
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When I checked into this talkback on Monday and found that it was *still* going on! Anyway, even though a lot of people have picked Hawksquill apart, I actually found his posts to be very interesting and articulate. A welcome addition to the @$$ hole talkback *** Ditto for Prof's defense of thought balloons. I was just kidding about being your troll, Prof. *** And lastly, while I enjoy Firefly and haven't seen Serenity, I'll have to side with Harry on the "browncoats". I think they've been taking their rabid fandom a bit too far in the last few weeks, to the point where it may have even hurt the Serenity box office by completely alienating and putting off casual sci-fi fans (such as myself).
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Be not surprised, for we keep the talkback alive all week, every week. Because we rule.
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"Anyway, even though a lot of people have picked Hawksquill apart..." Err...I think it was just me and Sleazy. "...I actually found his posts to be very interesting and articulate." I agree. Most of the stuff we were talking about was pretty subjective, anyway. Hopefully he'll stick around. ****** As for SERENITY...oy, I guess I'm glad I haven't followed any threads on it, because it'd probably kill me to see such an entertaining TV show/movie tarnished by fandom gone wild. Especially when Orson Scott Card just claimed it was the best sci-fi movie ever: http://tinyurl.com/acju7 Oh no he di'n't! But, yes, he did. Almost certainly an exaggeration, but the guy mounts a pretty nice appreciation. For this reason, his anti-homo comments will be forgotten for a month. ***** And speaking of "homos", ya gotta love ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT's appropriation of the term, eh? But I'm having to miss Bob Loblaw and friends for now on account of I'm still catching up on season two. It's a hard-knock life, man.
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is there anyway to "aquire" the lost and arrested developement characters into our "SOCIETY OF COG SMOOCHING ANTI-MOVIEMACK-MEN"...SOCSAMM...for short i guess...well we haven't gotten an official name yet heathen, vale, darth and the rest...but soon...i'll third that welcoming of hawksquill into this TB and bringing intelligent convo to boot...i'm holding out hope for serenity pulling a polar express where everyone was like it only made 20 mil its first weekend...BOMB...then it went on to gross over 100 mil...one can dream...and i also recommend a history of violence, i found it most excellent except for the child actress playing the daughter...horrible...everyone else was fine to great performance wise.
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In your ear with a can o' beer.
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Wait, what? Based on the things i've read about the movie i don't think i'll be catching it when it comes to Colombia (in 30 years). Seems like it's, well, not as good if you haven't seen Firefly. Now History of violence is officially my new most-anticipated-movie-ever and i'll be there waiting in line when it premieres in Colombian theaters (in 30 years). Orson Scott Card was smart enough to discuss the genius that is Charlie Kauffman and his movies. I applaud you, wise man. I saw Eternal Sunshine 3 times in a row last week, thus proving i have much time at my disposal. Finally, one of you is gonna have to buy me the Arrested Development season 1 DVD for christmas. ***Disclaimer: NOT REALLY! You guys are kind enough to do it...and that sickens me!***
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could pay me to buy it for you and i can bring it when i come in december.
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I shall consider your gerenous offer. Or any offer that is more generous than that. Generosity is underrated.
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Read on. This is what someone told my friend James at DeviantArt: Whoah... "All Star Batman and Robin"?
What the hell is it about? Do they go around playing baseball and visit kids in the hospital? And does every couple of issues Superman show up and they stop some punk named Vinny from selling cigarettes to twelve year olds? Do they have some fuzzy alien monster pet that gets them into hillarious trouble?
Because thats what "All Star Batman and Robin" sounds like it should be about. And quite frankly if it isn't about that then I don't want to read it. -
blackthought: Not too much this weekend, thanks for asking. I was going to see Serenity but I wanted to finish my Firefly dvd marathon first (so much better when the eps are aired in order!). Don't worry about dropping spoilers, I plan to see it this weekend and I don't mind whatever banter there is about it 'cause it's all Whedony-goodness. Ooh, and our team name should be Cog Smooch International (CSI). *** Buzz: "it was determined that I am Double Y, which is common in both convicts and billionaires." Does this make you the Lex Luthor of Cog Smooches?
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I'll be Warrick. Grissom races cockroaches, he scares me.
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hey fellows and lady calc just stopping by to say hey. ive been reading the interesting discussions but havent had the chance to post. saturday was my b day so i stayed partying pretty consitently. even took today off to rest! anyways saw serenity also andwill be by with coments later. hope everyone is well and had a great weekend!
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And many more, signor Kal-El, from your colombian friend, the handsome Mr Vale. Here's a deal...no no, a sweet deal: Any character i can draw for you? That counts as a birthday present! I could draw Batman saving all sorts of retarded children or something.
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Oct 04, 2005 4:50:51 AM CDT
Does the Marvel Zombieverse really HAVE to get past the "woah, c
by tall_boy
Cuz, seriously, 3 issues of Undead Marvel Superheroes was clearly not enough. Screw substantial - its freakin' Spider-Man hanging upside down AS A ZOMBIE!! Genius, I tells ya.
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64th birthday darth. i think our as yet-unamed cog smooch group should at least have a magic-user...every group needs one...i say alan moore because he has "real" magical powers...i've heard him say it...would he lie to me? never...though i fear he won't look as good in fishnets as zatanna, but that's what heathen's for...wait...what was the topic again?
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They're bringing back Gold Foil Covers! YESSSS!!! And I think the Cog Smooch team name should be something a little...1993... like: BloodCogSmoochForceTeam!
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That is the gayest thing since gay came to gaytown!
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That was a quote from the show, so I don't think either the name or the show are gay or bad or whatever, because I quoted it. Right?
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Or how about just "Cog Smooch"?
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I wouldn't know. I've only seen a couple episodes, tops.
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You should buy the DVDs, I personally guarantee them. Personally. Sexually. Money-back.
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Hmmm...
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backing of dvd's being backed personally while gauranteeing them with his personable personing personality while offering sex for money or was it money for sex and something to do with his back which aslo comes personally gauranteed with dvd's with..............oh shoot, team animation class time.........i knew i forgot something.
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I dunno. I mean, from my perspective it seems like Adult Swim comedies really like milking awkward silences for all they're worth, and then some, and then throw in a few nonsequiturs. Is there really much more?
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as long as I shave my legs first. ** TEGROF!!!** Anyhow, hope you're right about the box office blackthought. It'd be cool if it had some Polar Express staying power. I'm going to go see A History Of Violence this weekend
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The non-sequitur and pop-culture-obsessive schools of humor have become really grating on me in recent years. And, shit, I know they're the school that me and my friends traffic in when we're just fooling around, but they're easy humor. Cheap. Even FAMILY GUY is becoming hard for me to watch, and I like FAMILY GUY.
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With all the awkward silences that are supposed to be funny I always change the chanel or read a book or do anything but waste my time with whatevers on. Besides, I get my fill of awkward silences with reading about who Kevin Smith is going to go ass to mouth with next.
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I can't speak for the other comedy shows on Adult Swim, but speak no evil against Aqua Teen! I have 3 DVD sets of it and I'm not really recalling an over-reliance on non sequitur's or pop culture references (actually there are hardly any of the latter, unless you count the Foreigner belt buckle). The show is just madcap random insanity populated by truly unique and BRILLIANTLY voiced characters. Seriously the line delivery is amazing. Sorry I get worked up when someone disses ATHF. Don't hate yo! And besides, it's funnier than anything I've seen come from the pen of Joss Whedon. (just kidding please don't kill and eat me and make brown leather jackets out of skin!)
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Isn't that what fans of Serenity are supposed to be like? Just kidding. Nah, I wasn
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i liked serenity a lot.but damn you whedon*****SPOILERS why did u have to kill wash?!! and sheperd book?!!still hoping the movie resparks interest in the series and we get a season 2. thanks vale the offer is very much appreciated. id have to pick superman.
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Aren't we the All Week Cog Smoochers? I like Cog Smoochers International because we're very international here, don't you know. And listen, if you start making me think about Alan Moore in fishnets i'm gonna have to stop being so nice. Adult Swim's like a Cartoon Network thing right? I've heard ATHF is great but i've never seen it and i have this one episode of Sealab which is pretty funny.
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So Superman it is, my aging friend.
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"god, do I really have to call you
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I bought my girl a beta fish last week and we couldn't think what to name him. We were going to go with Locke, but the fish didn't seem mysterious enough. She thought Bob Loblaw was funny, but not for the fish. Then we saw Serenity Sunday and we knew what he HAD to be named: Wash. : (
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oh well... It figures because Wash automatically became my favorite character after I got Alan Tudyk's autograph after seeing Spamalot.. Serenity is a sci-fi/western and he's the guy in the Hawaiian t-shirt (and is it just me or is the guy in the Hawaiian t-shirt always the de facto Joss analogue?).
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Oct 04, 2005 2:57:05 PM CDT
I was more shocked by that than anything I can remember in recen
by the heathen
**SPOLIERS** I expected Book to go, so I was prepared for that. When I saw The Operative walking up those steps to meet Inara I was freaking out! I just knew Joss was going to kill the hopefully soon to be Wonder Woman - thank the maker I was wrong, but Wash! DAMN!!! And after Wash went, I was thinking why couldn't it have been Simon and then *BLAM* Simon got shot, and I was thought why did Simon have to get shot? Playing with my gorram emotions I tell ya. And don't even get me started on how brilliant the dialogue w/ Mal and Zoe was when he asked her if the "ship" will hold together.
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i don't know where i come up with this stuff half the time, sorries about moore fishnet image...but you seem to be ok with the heathen fishnet image...right? right? and for me the best show on adult swim is the venture brothers and i'm really digging stroker and hoop hoop and we all love the birdman...and by the darth...how do you feel about nick cage naming his son after "you"!???????
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Let me talk to you about something that warms my heart. During the past few weeks i've seen Asterix, one of my top 10 comics of all time, mentioned many times in places like Comic book resources. The new Asterix album is being released this week and about 8 million copies have been printed so far, and they will most certainly fly off the shelf. Airlines are painting the title characters on their planes and the comic's creator is greeted like the president wherever he goes, or so reports Rich Johnston. Growing up i never read a superhero comic, but everyone in my family had Asterix and Tintin books in their home. Those are the comics i grew up with, and seeing an Asterix comic sell about 7.800.000 more copies than the Infinite fucking Crisis brings back my hope for the future of humanity. So one of these days, when you feel like trying something new and different, get yourself an Asterix book, they're cheap. And while you're at it add a Tintin book to your purchase and see why these characters and their creators have statues built in their honor.
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i had to pick superman of course. as for that bastard nic cage beating me to using the name i was going to use for my first born i guess i can deal with it. actually since my first name is kinda hard for people to get when i first say it,especially in a crowded bar or club i typically use 'kal' as a nickname.its funny cuz all my family emailed me or texted me about the nic cage thing way before i saw it on the net.*****SPOILERS******i know what u mean heathen. i liked the book character a lot but the wash thing was sad because he went out like such a punk. at least sheperd book was defending his home. and inara was criminally underused! and yeah she needs to be wonder woman.funny about the fish and glad to hear this weekend was better than last.
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Oct 04, 2005 5:40:47 PM CDT
"and is it just me or is the guy in the Hawaiian t-shirt always
by darth kal-el
interesting point thalya.who would be his analogue on astonishing x-men? I think its beast
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we are pretty diverse!i mean where else do u find greeks, colombians, ecuadorians,and guys in fishnets?
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...you've mentally cast the role of every comic book character you've ever heard of with either a minor TV star or actor/actress-pin-up who will never make the A-List; or with all A-List actors who wouldn't do a comic book movie.
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Oct 04, 2005 7:05:56 PM CDT
God has blessed us once again with the gift of Buzz randomness
by el vale
You might be a geek if you hang around the AICN Comics talkbacks all week long.
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...and i feel like i need a wash. why are so many places on AICN full of so much hate and bullshit? it was pretty cool that smith was in there tho...
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...might i be a geek too?oh and i have an imaginary girlfriend and she is damn hot!im a geek for sure!/smiles big geeky grin
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(Happy Belated B-Day, btw..) You're probably right about Beast, but with his lineup there's not too many to choose from. What he really needs to do is create a Joss-analogue character while he's on the book. What would Joss Whedon's mutant power be, though?
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Ooh! Maybe you and your imaginary girlfriend and Noah and I can double date?
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thanks for the b-day wishes belated tho they be. and yes there really isnt too many to chose from but beast is the closest i could come.and i might be wrong but i could have sworn there was an issue where beast is drawn with a hawaiin shirt? i might be thinking of ultimate x-men tho.
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id of course be in my emergency batsuit
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Oct 04, 2005 9:07:33 PM CDT
Because we could all use a little protection every now and then.
by thalya
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whedon's superpower...er....um.....super-blogging? and he'd have to wear a browncoat of coarse...and perhaps carry dual pistols like wesley used to before he KILLED him off...sighs...i miss that show.
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Getting comic scripts in in a slightly-more timely manner than Kevin Smith? Making words end in -y? I second those sighs, blackthought.. and to think Wes'd still be alive if the show had gone another season.
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Oct 04, 2005 10:50:58 PM CDT
"we are pretty diverse!i mean where else do u find greeks, colom
by gus nukem
BRETHREN!!
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welcome gus...and yes thayla, i definately feel wes would still be kicking if there was a season 6 and fred might not of been turned "blue" so quickly...god i hate the wb network.
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How lovely and lively are we who so choose to remain, constant through day and night.
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THE COGSWELL COGS
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Nah, I think Fred going blue would've happened regardless. I think the ep was already in the can when the announcement was made anyhow. I heard there were already some story ideas in the works regarding Wes and Illyria and a possible return of Fred for S6, though. You have to wonder whether we would've gotten that run of completely stellar eps at the end of S5 though, if it weren't for cancellation. Would Connor's story have gotten wrapped? Would Lindsay have still gone out like a punk? Would we have gotten that completely perfect piece of acting from Ms. Acker in The Girl in Question where she changes between Fred and Illyria with just a flicker of voice and facial expression? It boggles the mind..
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season 6 and 7 are so needed...and i didn't say that she never would of gone blue, i was just thinking that the transition to illyria might of not happened so quickly if there existed a season 6...i'd so like to pull a maxwell lord on blue beetle to the network known as the wb.
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Jack Cross #1 & 2 and Fell 1. My faith to the Ellis has been restored. Very good stuff. I applaud his choice to give us a (good) book with a self-contained story and great art for 2 bucks. If only others would follow his example... -- I believe single issue sales would increase dramatically. For sure, *I* would be buying more titles. ***** PS I acknowledge that Ellis is responsible for a reasonable chunk of the decompression, er, phenomenon. And that his ability to bring out a book for $2, stems from his writing lots of books he cares little about.
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I thnik Angels last season was so stellar because it knew it didn't have time to drag things out. It got to the Devil Shit as Buzz Luthor (or his brother?) would say. That could be why Arrested Developmant is consistently so good, because it's ALWAYS on the verge of being canceled. I do hope to see some Angel type TV movies though.
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WB wanted self-contained eps after that epic long S4 arc, so that forced the writers to think different and get creative for the first half of S5, and then for the second half when cancellation came down they basically said "Screw your directives, we're writing for ourselves!", and it showed. Think the Blondie Bear movie will ever happen?
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I didn't mean that every ep needed to be self contained, but more like you said Thalya - have the creative forces write for themselves, which USUALLY they do when they know they're going to be canceled. It's not like they aren't canceled already you know? *** Speaking of getting to the devil shit. Supernatural sucked so bad last night, I'm thinking of having Kevin Smith rival it. The premise: Exorcism on a plane. It took all of 55 minutes for that to happen and it was lame. It was literally the devil shit too. Next week is a Bloody Mary episode (which always scared me when I was little) so I might give it one more show. But if they can't make Bloody Mary scary then I'm gone.
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what I mean is his oral fixation could rival Supernatural's sucking last night in theory
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Oh, I didn't mean that the eps had to be self-contained, so much as that the new creative constraints they had at the beginning of S5 forced creativity and therefore goodness, which then just got amped that much more later on. But as for older men, I always got Spike rather than Marsters in my dreams, and he's, what, a centarian? I'm still trying to place one Mr. Kuttler's age though.. It depends on how he's drawn..
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...but i stopped it to watch somehting else. im kinda glad i did from what your saying heathen.bloody mary used to scare the bejesus out of me so ill give it one more ep too but so far im not impressed.
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I know what Joss Whedon's super-power is!! It's the power to spark lengthy conversations on comic message boards that do nothing but confuse the crap outa me.
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the power to have incredibly hot actresses work on geeky and genre shows and love it. oh and his astonishing x-men analogue would swear in chinese
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tick...tock....SPOLIERS!!!!!!!!!!!.......JACK BAUER enters the fray tonight as he lands on the island!
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Then you KNOW all the mysteries will be solved in 24 hrs
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I've never watched it, but I know it takes place in 'real time' right? So does that mean 1-2 times a season it shows Keifer taking a grump? Or does he just hold it for 24hrs?
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...i guess if its abnormally large it can be compared to one of the seven dwarves but why grumpy?id prefer to take a big giant doc
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that's what commercial breaks are for - quick poops.
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Oct 05, 2005 2:52:32 PM CDT
taking a grump, pinching a loaf, dropping a load, having the cra
by shigeru
it's all the same. And a 2 min commercial break is one effecient squat. ...Wait Thalya, don't run! Sorry! We'll stop, promise!
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im still wating for the last 3 discs so i can finish the first season of lost! i have the new ep on the tivo but havent watched them yet.so wait jack bauer for real or keifer playing someone new on the island? wait dont tell me....ok go ahead.....godamn u!
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Well it is being honest, Shigeru.. ;)
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i was just kidding...jack bauer is not on LOST...i was just living a dream...forgives?
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Hurt us deep. Also i wish there was a shorter way to reffer to you, like Darth or Vale or Sideshow. Black doesn't sound right. Thought is worse.
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no way to shorten my name...big week for us in world cup qaulyfing...i'm still smarting from that uruguay loss.
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Let's see you reel from this... LAST!
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i'm reeling...and LAST!
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i can pretty much agree with the joe castings. just please don't cast a jinx, quick kick,falcon or serpentor if possible!!! i have some suggestions for COBRA characters, but not all the actors to cast for all the roles. first off i'd like to see Dr. Mindbender, played by Gary Oldman. as long as he shaved his head, he'd be perfect. any thoughts on storm shadow? maybe the guy from ong bak, jet li, or the guy who played seraph from the matrix movies? english should be no problem as the original storm shadow had is mouth covered. dubbing could be used if it had too. i don't think she can act too well or can do an accent, but how about krista allen or another actress similiar in appearance for The Baroness? even though i hate the character, dennis hopper if he were younger could play Serpentor. still having problems thinking of who could play Cobra Commander (with faceplate or hood), Tomax and Xamot, Major Blood and Destro. any thoughts? e-mail me.
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go try gardening, or astrology. This field of posting last is for big boys. LAST!
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but i'm the big boy when it comes to lasting...just consider me the roman emporer taking over greece...lovely country by the way...and LAST.
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sadly lacking in the ability to post last. PS LAST!
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I'VE BEEN A FAN OF GI JOE SINCE I WAS 4YRS OLD I'M 23 NOW I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS SUBJECT SINCE I WAS PROBABLY 10. I'VE SPENT ACTUAL ENTIRE DAYS THINKING ABOUT TO BE EXACT. MY OPINION:
FLINT- ERIC BANA (BLACKHAWK DOWN), SNAKE EYES- BRAD PITT (TO SAY THIS ISN'T AN ACTING ROLE IS JUST DUMB BODY LANGAUGE DOES COUNT FOR SOMETHING AND HE LOOKS THE PART FOR W/OUT THE MASK), STORM SHADOW- DONNIE YEN (BLADE 2 & IRON MONKEY), THE BARONESS- FAMKE JANNSEN (007 GOLDEN EYE), LADY JAYE - KATE BECKINSALE (DON'T FORGET BESIDES BEING A ASS KICKIN CHICK LADY JAYE'S AN IVY LEAGUE GRAD), SCARLETT- MILA JOVAVICH (NUFF SAID), BEACH HEAD- BRUCE WILLIS(NUFF SAID), HAWK- HARRISON FORD, ZARTAN- MICHAEL WINNCOTT(THE CROW), STALKER- WESLEY SNIPES, GUNG HO- RON PEARLMAN(HELLBOY) WILD BILL- BILL PAXTON, COBRA COMMANDER- ED NORTON, JINX- ZHANG ZIYI(CROUCHING TIGER), SHIP WRECK- BEN AFFLECK(COME ON A WOMANIZING DRUNKIN SAILOR)OR MAYBE NATHAN FILLION (SERENITY), MIRAGE- MICHAEL BEIHN(TOMBSTONE, ALIENS), KAMAKURA- BRIAN MCKENZIE(THE O.C.), DESTRO-THIS ONES ONE OF THE TOUGHEST VIN DIESEL WOULDN'T BE BAD BUT SCOTTSMAN WOULD BE ALOT BETTER MAYBE HUGO WEAVING IF HE COULD PULL OF THE ACCENT, MAJOR BLUDD- TONY CURRAN (BLADE 2,UNDERWORLD EVO.), SPIRIT- WES STUDI(THE LAST OF THE MOHICANS),ZARANA- KIERA KNIGHTLY, THE JUGGLERS- THIS ONES KINDA A EASY NO BRAINER BUT- ED HARRIS, SAM JACKSON, TOMMY LEE JONES, R. LEE ERMEY YA GET THE IDEA. WELL THATS MY OPINION.
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