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Toronto: Copernicus mounts up for a ride through BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN!
Hey folks, Harry here... When Copernicus blew off the second half of Toronto to come enjoy the blissful fun of the second half of QT 6 - this was one of the films that he was wildly praising. He really did seem to like BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN - don't see why that should have been a surprise, the story it is based on is quite fantastic. Here ya go with Copernicus' look at BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN!
BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN
I don't know why I doubted Ang Lee. Maybe I had Hulk burn. Maybe I didn't want to see a movie about gay cowboys. After all, this is exactly the stereotypical pretentious film festival movie according to South Park (though mercifully sans pudding here). Well, my doubts were unfounded – Ang Lee has achieved cinematic redemption with BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, guaranteeing himself a truly silly haul of Oscars come February. If you still doubt his talents, consider this: he has turned Heath Ledger into the frontrunner for Best Actor. And if you are still unconvinced, think about it this way: surely you want to see the sodomite movie that religious freaks are guaranteed to demonize.
This is the epic saga of two cowboys, Jack Twist (Jake Gyllenhaal) and Ennis Del Mar (Heath Ledger) who are hired to be shepherds one summer on what must be one of the universe's most stunning places to feed your sheep, Brokeback Mountain. Both are hard workers and men of few words, but in banding together against the wilderness they quickly develop a rapport that transcends both friendship and cowboy mores. But as each returns home to start families, they find themselves unable to match the profound and idyllic experience they shared that summer together. Over the next two decades their inability to recapture anything more than fleeting happiness causes their lives to slowly disintegrate.
Tales of forbidden love are as old as storytelling itself, but making the characters gay in a time and place where tradition holds such sway that murder is a routine response injects a palpable sense of menace into the story. Diana Ossana and Larry McMurtry (The Last Picture Show, Terms of Endearment) adapted the screenplay from Annie Proulx's short story, which was published to great acclaim in the New Yorker in 1997. The talent packed into the screenplay shows in its subtlety, as much of the drama arises from what goes unsaid in an era when the actions of the leads were truly unspeakable. Similarly, the breakdown of the stone fortress of emotion that the stoic cowboy embodies charges the film with dynamic characters that are a cinematic goldmine.
Only acting talent that could match the quality of the writing would do it justice, and here Jake Gyllenhall and Heath Ledger achieve perfection. They are convincing as cowboys, give nuanced performances, and even manage to pull off an electric chemistry. The favorite for the Oscar has to be Ledger – he has a slightly jucier role, the perfect drawl, and the look behind the eyes that he's concealing a roiling inner turmoil.
Just as breathtaking as the acting and writing are the visuals. Cinematographer Rodrigo Prieto trades the grit and gloom of Amores Perros and 21 Grams for magnificent, wide-open pastoral shots of the characters on the mountain. Here the cowboys are the timeless embodiment of freedom itself. But as family life in the 60s and 70s wears on, they seem literally trapped in the times.
The challenge for BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN will be to get audiences to go see it. I almost didn't, thinking that I wouldn't have much in common with gay cowboys. When I told this to a friend, she said, "Bullshit. You don't have anything in common with rapists and murderers, but you see movies about them all the time." She had a point there. It turns out, anyone who has had to face tough decisions as an adult will connect with this movie. And forbidden love is so universal that Hollywood churns out a predictable slate of retreads with the theme every year. BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN isn't one of those movies though – it tackles the age-old problem in a fresh and interesting way.
Maybe the most telling aspect of the quality of BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN is that I was intending on only watching the first half so that I could get to TIDELAND on time. But I found I just could not pull myself away. Ang Lee has constructed a film with such superb writing, visuals, and acting that it will be appreciated long after most of the rest of the movies from this year are forgotten.
-Copernicus
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Sep 22, 2005 1:05:40 AM CDT
I'm eagerly awaiting the day HULK is looked back upon as a t
by zikade zarathos
Looking forward to BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN. Ang Lee can genre-jump like no one on the planet.
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To me the short story was too short... I was concerned they would drawl things out longer than needed.
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Sep 22, 2005 1:34:30 AM CDT
Moviemack: Nolte's crazy scene-chewing, the Hulk Poodles, al
by zikade zarathos
but, of course, the person who'd call the movie 'truly awful' would miss that it was INTENTIONALLY bug-fuck nuts. It's like complaining about EDWARD SCISSORHANDS being unrealistic, or MULHOLLAND DR. being structurally schizophrenic. It's the whole point.
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I watched the trailer and it looks good, but when the guys start making out, I get kind of nauseous. I guess I'll rent it eventually and FF through those parts....nothing wrong with it, but just not for me.
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Incoming homophobe tirades. Stand back and let the rednecks thru.
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Sep 22, 2005 3:52:10 AM CDT
So what...some of those crappy John Wayne movies had gay overton
by darth bono jr.
Don't get me started.
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"I get kind of nauseous" means that you feel as though you have that effect on others. I believe you mean you 'feel nauseated' - unless of course you really mean your reaction to gays in film makes you nauseous to others. (and yeah, I'm kind of upset by what you said and am diffusing it with grammatical police work)
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a cowboy movie that I'll want to see. What about a remake of "Duel in the sun" with Brad Pitt and the Rock (in the Jennifer Jones role)?
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Not one mentioning of just how hot Anne Hathaway was in it.
Isn't she supposed to get nekkid in it? -
Good to read some intelligent Hulk Love. I'm with you.
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Sep 22, 2005 6:36:57 AM CDT
When will we see "Witness to Desire", a sexual exploration piece
by krullboy
"Who are you to doubt my womanly desires? I am the goddess truth.". . . .
"When we make lovem it's just like the sun in the morning". . . ."then make love to me right here". . . .God Bless South Park and the Sundance Film Festival episode. -
Surprised there hasn't been more of your typical "I'm not gay, but.." posts. Goatziner, Rupee88, don't let your knuckles get rubbed raw lurching about mmmm-kay?
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That movie was just bad. Don't get into what intentions or underlying themes us haters much have missed - heck, Swimfan had intentions and underlying themes. The movie has to do a hell of a lot more of that to be successful and Ang Lee failed big time with it. And sorry, over time it will not become an overlooked as a true classic. Very few people would even bother to watch it with such a dragged out and boring story and the crappy special effects. Sorry, just being honest.
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Anybody who's lived through the last ten years of popular movie-making will have watched innumerable young women (and men, but mostly women) getting raped, mutilated and murdered. I have no problem with this; I hate Gwyneth Paltrow and think the best place for her pretty head is a cardboard box. But it makes me wonder what kind of stomach you must have if you can watch the people you're supposed to be attracted to being ripped into little bloody shreds, but get queasy when you see a man kiss another man. Nothing nauseates me; particularly no form of human tenderness. How can you be made sick by anything that is supposed to be a sign of love? I don't want to be judgemental, but I sincerely think that if you laugh at people being butchered and puke when they kiss, you have something seriously wrong with you.
That's straight guys for you; they'll talk about killing and kicking ass until the cows come home, but you never hear them talking about love. -
So what if they kiss? I can imagine most guys feeling uncomfortable if the film was full of gay sex scenes, but this is a movie about love, more than lust, I think! So if two men (who you know are acting, by the way) are seen kissing, why does that confront you so?
***************************** And Castor777, you might be "just being honest", but it's still just your opinion, so why apologise? You're entitled to express how you feel about something without being sorry. -
Sep 22, 2005 9:42:43 AM CDT
I liked this movie the first time I saw it. It was called '
by goon bighead
It had Peter North and Jeff Stryker in it. I know u guys love the dick jokes.
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Is it perfect? No. Is it brilliant? Yes! And, frankly, I will hear no fanboy bitching; it's got the Hulk fighting the Absorbing Man and smashing tanks in the desert, and the fight actually means something on the level of character. That's genius!
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So, if religious fanatics denounce the film then it will make a lot of money right? hahaha...silly jesus freaks.
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Yes it probably will CTMLives. Your attempt at comedy is immature, lame and smacks of internalised homophobia (see my post above) For whats it's worth Brokeback Mountain will also do well in LA, New York, Chigago, Miami, Toronto, Montreal and any other city were people are interersted in seeing what appears to be a well made, well acted original movie. BTW Sepulchave, you rock.
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The fact that you justified seeing this film by comparing it to films you've seen about rapists and murderers, well, that speak volumes about your IQ, and your friends IQ. You can throw around words like "Idyllic and profound" but the real question is, who's pitching, and who's catching?
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I still think this is a horrible idea for a story in any medium.
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He has transformed himself into a fine character actor. I think his performance in Monster's Ball was a turning point for him. Good for him!
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Oh wait that's a song about Don Imus. If the movie's good, so be it, but it has the worst title ever.
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As is usually my practice, I will be seeing this film in some form (in the theater, DVD) come awards-time. However, EVEN as a conservative (well, politcally moderate) Christian- and attack me all you want- I agree with posters like Sepulchrave. In a lot of mainstream films today, characters bang each other because that's what you do in a mainstream film, not because of character development, straight or not. But if the story is as good as proclaimed, then it doesn't do anybody any good to judge. Will I be *slighty* uncomfortable? Maybe. But I'm also very accepting of different lifestyles, regardless of what my upbringing has taught me as right or wrong. And I'm not going to go screaming out of the theater and call Bill O'Reilly or Rush Limbaugh and go into some ignorant diatribe about the evils of society, or whatever you think I'm going to do. So please don't lump all of us "Jesus Freaks" (which I don't mind being called) into the same group of inevitible haters of excellent cinema that just happens to feature a couple of gay cowboys.
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... Why aren't you in charge? Man, would the film world be much better. Oh wait a second. You're an idiot who would probably benefit by seeing this movie. I saw it - fucking fantastic. The best love story since I can't remember. Ang Lee is still the man.
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...if the movie starred Angelina Jolie and Rebecca Romijn in the starring roles? Then would you claim it's the best idea for a movie ever?
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Once I got past the fact that the title had the words "Back" and "Mount" next to each other, I must admit, the movie looks pretty good. And yes, if Anne Hathaway gets naked, all the better. Also, to the "Jesus Freak" (filmicdrummer17) can we call you a Jesus Crispy? I always preferred that term.
AS FOR THE HULK: I was okay with the movie until the San Francisco rampage ended. It became obvious at that point that the writers didn't know how to end it, so they just kept going. Worst Comic Book Movie Ever? No. But far from the best. -
Good statement. I'm glad you're going in with an open mind to this movie. I respect that and kind of understand getting defensive when being accused. However, I don't think anyone's accusing you, just the inevitable backlash that will come from some conservative neo-christians about the context of the movie. I just think it is funny because with just a few of those people who protest, it will in turn gain controversy, a la Farenheit 911 or Passion of the Christ, and then gain tons upon tons of money for Hollywood. I mean, seriously, you can see how the media will build this up before it is released. They will put Christian groups on the front burner and spin a story, true or not, that they will have difficulties with issues of the sexuality. So, bottom line, I'm glad you're not psycho.
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KABOOM!!! That's going to be the sound of this well made and beautifully shot film. Ang Lee is a good director and both actors might be good but the subject matter is one that will keep the regular moviegoers away...in droves. Good luck Mr. Lee
Fandude -
I agree. Controversy = Big $$$ for the studio. All press is good press. And for something this ambitious, it will be, and this type of film can be successful at film festivals and moderately successful at the box office (mostly because of curiosity about all the hoopla), but can it pull in big awards? Nominations, maybe, if it's that good, but we're not yet in a time where a stolid institution like the Academy will risk backlash from "fanatical" right-wingers...
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Anne Hathaway and Michelle Williams, who will IMMEDIATELY become household names after every third guy who goes to see this starts using one or both of them to justify his having gone to see it. Just IMAGINE how sick you'll be in a year's time of hearing "yeah, dude, I saw the gay cowboy movie... but dude, I ONLY went for that Ella Enchanted chick!"
http://moviebob.blogspot.com -
...for me, the most "uncomfortable" thing about this project isn't any gay content, it's that it so far looks, well... un-good. "Cold Mountain" un-good. Seriously, take out the "oooh, look! two GUYS" aspect and the premise, trailer, poster, etc. look like standard-issue romance novel pap. I could be wrong, of course, but if I'm wrong just think of the harsh conundrum this places much of the critical press in: If it IS just the paperback forbidden-romance cheese that seems to be, will they feel self-imposed pressure to be overly generous in order to "defeat" the innevitable army of (mostly) faith-based hate tossed in it's direction? Just asking...
http://moviebob.blogspot.com -
The gay thing is absolutely necessary in the story. Because the story is about love under terrible and impossible circumstances. They never even relly identify themselves as gay, but it's absolutely interesting. It's not a fucking gimmick, and I'm not going to argue about something that one of us has a clear idea about and the other one has no idea, because he hasn't seen it. Why do you care that gays have parades? Do you care that other groups have parades? Why would that bother anyone? - it's a really simple thing to avoid. This seems to be the 'soup-de-jour' response for people who are still uncomfortable with the idea of people being gay, this "they want all this attention" diatribe, and "why can't they just shut-up about being gay". It's a smokescreen - really you're just saying gay is okay so long as it's never seen or heard. Well, pal - gay is for real and like all things that are real, they tend to occur in reality - aka planet earth, so suck it up. And there was nothing gay about the hobbits in LOTR - that was you and a whole bunch of other uncomfortable dweebs projecting what they think gay is onto a movie that had nothing to say about the subject. That's just people associating gay with crying and whimpering and wide-eyed innocence. It's actually quite juvenile and totally ill-informed. That said - man those hobbits came of as little mincing fairies on occassion. Bad acting maybe?
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they really have no choice. They know it will rile up the mainstream (i.e. 95% of the country with a brain) and show them as "caring and open minded". Just like all of their praise for the turd known as "American Beauty". Thank goodness this thing will fade fast and only reappear to lose at the Oscars. But the critics will spend a year doing their best rationalizing why they love the film. Like they have a choice, stupid bastards that they are.
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Man you are fucking silly. Grow up.
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How do you know it will be bad?
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To reiterate what McSmokey said, only the guys made truly anxious by deep male friendships claimed that Frodo and Sam were gay. There was nothing homosexual about their relationship and the gay community never claimed there was. How many gay people do you know? How does it seem to you that "most homosexuals are exibitionist's (sic)"? If you were in danger of being beaten up for walking down the street hand in hand with your girlfriend, if you were in danger of being harassed at work or even fired for having a picture of your girlfriend or wife at work, would you just shut up about who you love? I don't care for gay pride parades myself (and I know a few gay fellows who feel the same way), but that's what happens when a group of people who have been acceptably shunned and murdered for centuries will do when they finally get a chance to be who they are with less fear of repurcussion. The fact is that SOME homosexuals are exhibitionists and SOME are not. Just like SOME heterosexuals are exhibitionists are exhibitionists and some are not. There's nothing to be afraid of!
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A recent survey from the US Center for Disease Control and Prevention (buried, unsurprisingly) found that forty percent of American men and 35 percent of women have had anal sex with an opposite-sex partner.
I assure you that male ass differs on the inside from the female not one whit. So all that nasty talk about how instrinsically dirty gay sex is (and believe me, those conservatives NEVER get tired of talking about dooky)is a a huge crock of something or other. And it also means that 40% of US men are technically sodomites in the most literal sense, this in a country with the highest levels of Christian faith in the developed world. Go to hell (literally).
Oh, and to the con types who think 'American Beauty' is some sort of propaganda film; why don't you talentless conservative wasters get off your fat unoriginal asses and make a profitable film that reflects YOUR values? Go on, make a film that celebrates heterosexuality and consumerism, demonises gays, feminists and pro-lifers, preaches the bible and sexual conformism and trumpets a conservative agenda generally.
And then watch it BOMB. You all know what BOMBs do, don't you cons?
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This looks like it's evolving into the dreaded Aquafag talkback. Cease!
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not 1%. Then another 3% or so are bisexual. I'm sure the truth frightens you.
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Ian McKellan was one of the founders of the Gay Liberation Front in London in the 70's and has been a homosexual activist all his life. when questioned about the hobbits' relationship he said that it was the deep emotional bond that develops between a loyal servant and his master, an officer-batman relationship. He stated quite clearly that Tolkien was unaware if any modern sexual connotations that might be forced on a story by a (neo-puritanical) heterosexual society that is uncomfortable with most expressions of love between men; Platonic or otherwise. And HE's a super-queer-activist. People who complain that gays are homosexualising all their strong Platonic relationships almost certainly don't have any such relationships because they're so busy worrying about expressing affection that they are unable to form strong bonds with their male peers. Here's the secret; REAL MEN DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT AND ARE NOT FRIGHTENED OF HOMOS.
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Sep 22, 2005 4:50:24 PM CDT
great review; i would totally see this film after reading that t
by mocky_puppet
...well, i would, that is, if it weren't a film about gay cowboys. could the tagline be "homo on the range"? has anyone thought of that one yet? i'munna pass on this one, pardner.
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and I bet they do eat pudding all day. I'm not interested.
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No, I would not think the idea was any better if it had naked nubile lesbians grinding, sweating, and licking each other. Being that I am attracted to women, I would probably enjoy the sex scenes more, but who knows, a naked Jake bent over a naked Heath may be very hot.
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...for those who object to The Gays claiming all those platonic male friends (such as Frodo and Sam) are secret homo lovers.
You'll actually find that the vast majority of the people putting that the gay spin on their relationships are women. Straight ones. -
@ $8 a pop, it will gross ~50 million bucks just in the U.S. alone. Not bad for a movie like this.
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Ang Lee has said there's very little in terms of graphic sexuality in the movie. You'll see the actors herding sheep often more than having a "roll in ze hay." That's probably what will frighten a lot of people: a small amount of sex scenes balanced out by a mature, unsensationalized look at love. In the original story, the characters aren't quite sure about their relationship. It even frightens them quite a bit.
Fry: I know Big Vinnie said he was giving me the kiss of death, but I still think he was gay. Leela: Did he use his tongue? Fry: A little.
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CTM, I hear some of them gays have actually moved OUT of SF since 1978 when people actually put credence into a stupid quote like that (or thought it was funny--but I doubt it was a ripsnorter even then). In fact, I hear there are now gay guys in Southeast Kentucky, Northern Alabama, Upstate New York, Ohio, Arizona, and just maybe even in YOUR town! So don't trust those hairdressers and be sure to check out your florist just in case--you'll be safe then--well, maybe as long as a new interior decorating business doesn't come to town.
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I'm not trying to get confrontational with you but you made one statement that was somewhat false:
"I assure you that male ass differs on the inside from the female not one whit." - Men have prostates, women don't. That is why, physiologically speaking, men find anal intercourse more sexually pleasing than women do. Oh and CTM lives, you need to calm the down, if you don't want to see the movie - then don't. I know lots of hedrosexual men who projected homosexual conotations onto Frodo and Sam's friendship. Finally Noeland: I don't think the author of the review or his friend was in anyway comparing homosexuals to rapists or murderers. His friend was stating that his not being able to relate to gay cowboys was a falacious reason to not see the movie. After all he watches movies that feature rapists and murderers; and he can't relate to them, so the excuse of not watching the movie because he is unable to relate to a character (or characters), because of their lifestyle, is invalid - in that he sees films all the time in which he cannot relate to the characters. So I think what the author was trying to point out was his own latent homophobic reaction to the film. -
Think about it--all those guys practically LIVING out of that little van! Gay! Just like all the characters in TOPGUN. Batman & Robin (what DID he do to become "The Boy Wonder", hmmm?), dozens of major male sports figures (just about all of hockey), male actors in porn, Hitler, 85.3% of all Roman gladiators (based on 2002 carbon dating testing)...the list goes on...
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I really do think the story of this movie is universal. People of all walks of life find themselves in situations that are doomed for one reason or another, and throughout life try to reclaim it or better it in one way or another. Although I'm gay and wish Ang Lee the best, I don't know if this film - not this "kind" of film, because it's not even a "gay" movie, its "kind" is a LOVE STORY - but this film in particular won't find as wide an audience as Ang probably expects. It's a story with gay characters, and it's a Western, and neither are particularly beloved right now.
That said, I'll be there opening day. Me lovey some Jakey.
Oh, and CTM... hate tickles. Like abortion. -
...this will always and only be known as "the gay cowboy movie". they may as well have named it such. at least you'd be clear on what you were getting--kind of like "snakes on a plane".
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Just another gay propaganda film from gay hollywood. I hope Captain Panaka is in this one. He needs to get his cynical ass reamed for being such an idiot. Gay people are pathetic!!!
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it's called "rimming", boy.
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40% of American men and 35% of American women have admitted to having anal sex with members of the opposite sex? And you trust those figures? Who are the extra 5% of those men doing it with?
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Welcome Christians! Your steadfast determination in the face of sin is to be commended. I'm sure Jesus would be very proud of the way you objectify people and apply hateful judgments to their behaviours.
I wonder how many gay kids will read these posts and take one step closer to suicide?
Maybe it's a good film, maybe not ... Ang Lee's record is inconsistent ... he is so eclectic. But this film has already been well received in Toronto I believe? -
Some of my best friends are gay,puddinglovin' cowboys!
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How could anyone go for the manlove when your surrounded by them beautifull sheep, thats what i like to know, i hope Ang Lee kicks some sheep in tha mix!
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Your statistics are off: it's more like 5% of the population is gay. And since when is that going to stop anyone? ************ Crawl back under your rock, dude! Or go visit your good buddy Fred Phelps....
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when this film is released wide, how will he protest every theater showing simultaneously?
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which is why he is aking this so personally. Either that or he has never ever had even the littlest bit of sex. Ever. Which is why he is so obsessed with what other people are doing and with whom.
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it seems that many ppl forgot that AngLee also made wonderful movies like Sense and Sensibility, Ice Storm, Eat Drink Man Woman and the Wedding Banquet. oh yeah let me guess: Wrong target group here on aicn...pffff
oh and btw this film was the big Golden Lion prize winner in Venice's Biennale but hell i'm sure nobody gives a shit about European Film Festivals as long as it is not Cannes or is happening in England... -
It may even be a competent film but the political aspect, with the gay thing being the only hold-out for the hippies and wanna-be's looking to confirm their counter culture status by "standing up to the man" so to speak, it will never be fairly reviewed. Period.
So sit back and watch how many critics put it on their top ten of the year and spend sentences and ink whining about how our close minded culture is just missing out on this wonderful, heartfelt film that is really just about blah blah blah.
Have fun, haters. -
I don't understand why ppl like CMT even open up the article when they know it's something they are against. Why bother? Why does everyone on this site have to be hateful all the time. It's crazy. And by the way, I saw this in Toronto and it was excellent and Ang Lee was there and he said that after the whole Hulk debacle he wanted to make a small movie that nobody see (gay cowboys) so I'm assuming no one is expecting this to be a HUGE blockbuster although I do suspect it'll be a modest hit and maybe even a sleeper hit. I expect it didn't cost much to make and will therefore easily turn a profit. Oh and I went with 2 hetero girls who were VERY excited about seeing Jake and Heath making out. So not just gay men will be interested.
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I'm kinda stunned and saddened to see this sort of homophobic crap. Call me naive, but I 'd hoped this type of thing was on the decline amoung resonable people. Anyway, it looks likes a beautiful movie, I'm sure there will be lots of crying. And for all those guys who want to see this movie and are afraid they'll get judged for it... JUST GO! If your male freinds can't handle it, it's becuase they secretly WANT YOU!! LOL! And I really liked the Hulk. It wasn't perfect, but it was nice to see a superhero movie with some complexity to it. Would have liked it better if Nolte hadn't been such an over the top weirdo, but everyone else was pretty great. And Ang Lee clearly grasped the comicbook genre. His use of the frame was brilliant and moreover, consistent. He's not one for gimmicks.
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As a straight woman.. I'm SO there for the Gyllenhaal/Ledger makeout!
Apparently they injured each other... now THAT'S acting!!
LOL!
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How can it be "crap" and maybe "competent"? Is it possible that non-"hippies" and non-"wannabe's" will enjoy this film and think highly of it? Do you actually think that the problem with most film critics is that they're "liberal"? I always thought it was that they're pretentious know-nothings who never made a movie in their lives, politics be damned.
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It's good. It's not great. DrilL is right, this movie will not be judged fairly because everyone wants to elevate this film to something it's not in the intention of furthering societal opinion, especially American societal opinion... which isn't exactly a bad thing considering the real beating homosexuality has started taking again the past few years.
Ledger is deserving of a nomination based on films I've seen this year. That's about the only award the film DESERVES. Cinematography was good, but even Tideland was 100x better. Tideland is FULL of really impressive camera work, not setting up a tripod with mountains in the background.
Anne Hathaway.. meh.. if she got nakid, I forgot about it. Michelle Williams is bareing though.
People keep talking about this film referring to how the 60's/70's were so anti-gay and such. While that may be (is) true, in the context of the film, the 60's and 70's are barely a factor. Yes there is some explanation for reluctance to be public that matches real-life historically-based-rational but never does the relationship ever really get directly effected by history. I still argue that (in the context of the film) that Ellis (Ledger) isn't actually a homosexual.
The film is about love, period. One is pushing for it, one is always keeping it at a distance. I wasn't devastated over their relationship, this probably has to do with not bonding to the characters (which has nothing to do with their sexual orientation) but to do with the fact that there really isn't any character development, they're pretty one-sided I find (typical of a Western IMO), maybe too much time with wide shots of fields and mountains and not enough obstacles for me to invest in their pain. Or perhaps it's because they both led double-lives. I felt more pain for Ellis' wife than anyone in the film. I mean, in any film, am I supposed to root for a cheating husband when his wife is a saint. What about 2 cheating husbands? (This said, there's a scene with Hathaway near the end I'm confused over her demeanor). Anyhow, what can I say, I just didn't connect.
Which is contrary to other films I saw where there were tears everywhere I looked, but in Brokeback, in my vicinity, only a few people were sheding tears.. And this is Canada people, not the southern US. I just think the film is missing something. Audience reaction was greater at other films. Though to reiterate.. this film IS good. But it has better not win any production related awards at the Oscars considering the other films I saw.
BTW I noticed no build up at all to their first encounter. Sure I was expecting it based on the movies subject, but if I didn't know what this film was even about, it would have been a TOTAL shock to see that scene unfold. You don't see it coming. I dunno man, as a film, an entire body of work, it's probably even short of good. Props are probably more deserved to the short story writer than Ang Lee. I'd say Ang really just deserves kudos for delivering it to a wider audience. -
I'm offended by the cowboys. Do the world a favor, stop making movies about cowboys. This movie is just another step in the conspiracy to spread the cowboy agenda. What's next? Are we going to let cowboys get married? If that happens it'll open the door for people to marry animals and children. Who needs cowboys? They don't serve any biological purpose, except to keep the cows from escaping, but that's why God gave us fences. Cowboys want nothing more than a saddle (a bucket of Sin), a blanket (the curtain of Sin), and miles and miles of open range (fields of Sin) so they can spread their unholy ways. God-fearing civilized people have no use for cowboys. If it were up to them, we'd be levelling cities and planting grass and raising millions upon millions of cows. Ang Lee (not a born-American, mind you) is another example of a Godless Liberal spreading the Cowboy Agenda and poisoning the youth of this country with weird ideas about "horse ridin'" "moseyin'" and some sinful act these cowboys call "rootin' and tootin'". Root and toot this! You Unholy sinning Cowboy bastards!
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LOL!! Good one!
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That's GOLD!
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First off, Wee Willie that was hilarious. Anne Hathoway does flash her breasts and they were great, although it was weird seeing The Princess Diary boobies. As for the "weird" scene with her near the end, I totally get what she was conveying and she did an amazing job, I hope her performance doesn't get overlooked, the scene with her on the phone is excellent!
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Well a 2 minute scene alone doth not make an award winner.
However excuse me while I try ask my question without being specific in sensitivity to everyone else (who hasn't seent he movie).
Is she being the opposite of Ellis' wife in that scene after Ellis and Jack first reunite, or is this simply that she's annoyed because she long ago figured things out? OR...is it the worst situation, and she's making up what she says on the phone?... that would change some things for me. Not enough to go from "good" to "great" but it would have actually spoke volumes about her character... you know.. the character you learn basically nothing about until (possibly) that phone call.
I haven't read the book, so I only have the movie to go by and from what I can tell, it seems to leave a lot up to interpretation which readers of the text seem very sure about. -
Love that trailer scene, with Heath's face buried in his buddy's blue jean jacket....guess there weren't any BVDs around.
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...is that if South Park doesn't have an episode devoted to this, a la "Passion of the Jew", I will be disappointed. Ever since I first heard of this film, Eric Cartman's description of independent films has been echoing in my head.
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the scene in the trailer with Heath hugging the jacket just gave me chills. Wow. Anyone remember him as the little Celtic warrior in Roar? Anyway, some of this homophobic stuff is hilarious. Homosexuals are exhibitionists? Are you kidding? You are aware there's this term about how homosexuals have to hide their identity - something about closets. This movie looks incredible and Lee has my respect, for pretty much everything he's done, and yes, including Hulk, and no, I'm not going to enter that old debate again. The idea that straight people can't relate is ridiculous. This is not a gay movie about gay culture but about 2 guys who have an intense relationship that may not fit society's definitions. If it's a good story, even the most outrageous otherness is relatable. Even with all the gay sex in My Own Private Idaho, there's still an engaging story there that was more about 2 men coming of age in different ways. Hell, I'm straight and I could even relate strongly to Hedwig and the Angry Inch, whose main character is a gay transsexual would-be rock star mutilated by a botched sex change operation. Not because I want to be a transsexual rock star, but because it's a beautiful, poignant and wryly funny story. My favorite relationship on Buffy was the Willow/Tara relationship, not because I get off on girls kissing (which does nothing for me), but because it was such a tender and beautiful relationship (well, except for the second half of the 6th season). But some people's cultural programming may just be too strong.
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I would say that she long ago figured things out and was very conflicted about her feelings, kinda a love/hate thing. I just think she acted it perfectly. OSIN - I totally remember ROAR, it was awesome, I remember it came on either after or before Buffy here in Canada during it's first season and loving both shows. It's weird cause you see someone like Heath in that and then it gets cancelled and you think you'll never here of him again and he's famous. So weird. Same thing with Ewan McGregor in Lips on your Collar.
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I never tire of hearing the "homophobes are secretly gay" routine. Ho, ho, ho! Likewise, rabid Christian-bashers are repressed Jesus freaks, yes? And all those vocal vegetarians are closet carnivores? And while we're on the subject, could someone please explain something for me? If it's perfectly reasonable for homosexuals to indulge their natural desires, how is it unreasonable for others to be naturally repulsed by said indulgences? Can't have it both ways, folks -- unless you want to start cross-pollinating instinct with inherent morality, and that's one sticky puddle. I've got no problem with homosexuals, and I support their right to do whatever they want with whomever they wish. I also feel a little sick when I see explicit X-on-X or Y-on-Y action, and I do not feel even a little bit guilty about it. That's who they are, this is who I am. My experience is that most people on both sides are unnecessarily judgemental.
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You obviously don't realize where you're posting. This is AICN. You're not supposed to act like a reasonable grown-up!
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If you think it was weird seeing that actress from "The Princess Diaries" topless, go rent "S.O.B." and see Julie Andrews ta-tas.
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...but Roseanna Arquette's boobs are there and they are much nicer!!
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I hope this is allowed: the stats on heterosexual sodomy are GOLD; from the Dept of Disease Control: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/pubs/pubd/ad/361-370/ad362.htm
A theory that homophobia is a result of latent homosexuality was put forth in the late 20th century. A 1996 study conducted at the University of Georgia by Henry Adams, Lester Wright Jr., and Bethany Lohr indicates that a number of homophobic males exhibit latent homosexuality. The research was done on 35 men who exhibited homophobic traits, and compared with 29 men who did not. Three tests were conducted using penile plethysmography. While there was no difference in response when the men were exposed to heterosexual and lesbian pornography, there was a major difference in response when the men were exposed to male homosexual pornography.
The researchers reported that 24 percent of the nonhomophobic men, but 54 percent of the subjects who scored high on the homophobia scale showed some degree of tumescence in response to the male homosexual video. In addition, 66 percent of the nonhomophobic group showed no significant increases in tumescence after this video, but only 20 percent of the homophobic men failed to display any arousal. Additionally, when the participants rated their degree of sexual arousal later, the homophobic men significantly underestimated their degree of arousal by the male homosexual video.
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Grow up man. Why are you so damn bothered about people thinking you are secretly gay anyway? Ah I see, because you are a immature insecure cowardly wanker. Fair enough.
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intended for her two main characters in this story to be grotesques, or characters so out of left field that we are shocked when we find ourselves identifying with them and caring about them. i mean, i won't spoil it but the ending to the story is very sad and really focuses in on the fear-turned-to-violence epidemic that is sadly very present in every day life. also if you liked this film/story check out a book called 'power of the dog', i forget the author but it's another great character study of lonliness and isolation of a gay man in ranching culture.
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Sep 24, 2005 8:17:35 PM CDT
God damn...You criticize a gay western and all of a sudden you a
by cherrycola
First of all, I'm straight and happen to love films in general. And I can see a bad film from a mile away. This may very well be a bad movie. All the jokes over the years about a "lesbian western art film" or some other south park joke jump into my head. It seems like a such a damn cliche. OF COURSE I'm a fucking no good homophobe with my head up my ass and YES I guess this means I MUST like it up the 'ol banana bitin' tail pipe because I have no desire to see a gay western. How's this for gay cinema? Victor/Victoria, The Birdcage (La Cage aux Folles..skip the sequel...its horrib, Philadelphia, My own private idaho (van sants best ever), all about my mother, Boys don't cry, anything by margaret cho...I've seen all of the above and more and think they are all classics in their own right. But THIS? It seems like a bunch of pitch men sat around and started throwing ideas out..."a kung-fu/western, naw, been done already...A sci-fi western..Nope, almost ruined will smiths career...Hmmm, how about a teen western? Been there done that...I got it, a GAY WESTERN! And, we'll hire that clever asian guy to direct so we can attract the upper crust crowd and hopefully get oscars attention!" No thanks! I think I'll skip it.
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You're suggesting that Ang Lee isn't smart enough to see a movie made for the sake of a gimick and I think he's proven he's much smarter than that. You just have no interest in seeing it. That's cool. It doesn't mean you're a homophobe or secrectly gay OR that the film makers didn't sincerely set out to make an honest film. It's just not your cup o' tea. No conspiracy theories necessary.
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Starring Ron Jeremy.
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Nothing wrong with it? Then let's see some cinema stars bang each other in the butt. Yeah, right. Now tell me how courageous, daring and innovative the movie industry is.
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Sep 25, 2005 9:08:31 PM CDT
The Hulk being an absymal misfire in comic book adaptation is no
by axelfoley
Most people, like myself call it the truth. Shitty acting, slow pacing, wooden Bana, over the top, uber-annoying Nolte and overanalytical Ang Lee. I don't think it was possible for the man to have tried any harder shoving his take on something that's been the way it was for 40 years. If it's not broke, don't fix it. I expected more from this talented filmmaker. -
Sep 25, 2005 9:12:45 PM CDT
I still was disappointed by the Hulk, Part Deux--Sunday night at
by axelfoley
The Hulk dogs and zero chemistry between Bana and Connelly also solidified why this movie didn't work aside from the few things that did. Connelly looked like she was doing Mr. Lee a favor just for appearing in that movie. On the plus side, I liked the army battle and Sam Elliot. The comic book choroegraphy worked to a certain extent but also misused.
That's it. Just because it's a piece of shit does not mean I'm jumping on the bandwagon.
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And I'll probably end up watching this film. I just hope he has the skill to actually pull it off. I don't doubt he will, however good directors have been known to trip up every once in awhile. Let's hope hulk was just a fluke.
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Just not for you. I like it more every time I see it. I can understand why people didn't like it (i.e. it wasn't the way they would have made it), but that doesn't mean that it was "bad." Ang Lee made a sincere and whole-hearted effort and I thought it was absolutely beautiful that it wasn't what most people wanted or expected. That's interesting art.
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Sepulchrave, I got just one thing out of your post: that I should have selected "penile plethysmography" as my nic...
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But it didn't work as a whole. The biggest problem was the script. Why bother with the whole oedipal plotline? Why waste time with scenery-chewing Nick Nolte and shove Jennifer Connelly to the sidelines? A simple repressed-nerd beauty-and-the-beast plot would have served the material much better. Also, given Bana's amazing performance in "Chopper", I find it hard to believe that his lackluster, charisma-free job in "Hulk" wasn't due to poor direction on Lee's part.
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Because Ang Lee wanted it so. He wanted a melodrama (which is what Hulk always was, anyway) and that's what he got. Considering the performances that one associates with Ang Lee's movies, which is more likely: that he poorly directed an actor or that he directed that actor in a way you wouldn't have? I think the latter is more likely.
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You are all so spazzed out by a film about cowboys in love. Are you afraid that when you watch "it will move" a little? Heh. I plan to see this film the second it comes out because I loved the short story (which was bitterly sad), I think Ang Lee does much better with love stories (gay or not: "Wedding Banquet," "Eat Drink Man Woman," "Sense and Sensibility"), AND because I'd enjoy seeing two beautiful men in love and acting on it in a realistic way. What's not to like (that is, unless you're some repressed, inexperienced, tremulous fanboy).
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