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About those SPIDER-MAN 3 villain rumors...

Hey guys, Quint here. We've been getting email after email demanding why we're not covering this huge revelation recently regarding SPIDER-MAN 3 and the villains old webhead will have to deal with. Well, there are a couple reasons...

Originally, about 4 weeks ago, the rumor was started saying the main villain in SPIDER-MAN 3 will be Chameleon (Thomas Hayden Church). We also received this letter from, I'm guessing, the same source (it was word for word the same as what was printed later that day by as Development-Hell, who broke the story, but we didn't run it. We've reported our own rumors on SPIDER-MAN 3 and what our sources were telling us just doesn't jive with this information.

There are also other rumors that have been floating around since Topher Grace was announced as a villain claiming we were going to see him slip into a certain alien symbiotic costume. Even we here at AICN ran a rumor about this, but I'm really skeptical about this one.

Does anybody look at Topher Grace and see Venom? I know I sure don't. Sure, it could be possible that Sam Raimi would approach the character differently from the books, make him more of a mirror of Spider-Man, a kind of Bizarro Spider-Man. That would be true if Raimi hadn't done dozens of interviews stating that he doesn't like the character of Venom, preferring the old cache of villains. Could this have been a multi-year in the making slight of hand trick? I suppose so, but it just doesn't feel right.

I think there may be a possibility of Spidey appearing in the Black Suit in the film... and that could possibly be the source of all these Venom rumors, but even that I'm dubious of. I only give it any credit because there have been so many reports of Venom and various other "black material" being sighted around Sony's wardrobe department.

The more recent rumors come from Rich Johnson, who looked into the rumors of the Chameleon and found something that would be a big spoiler if it pans out. I'm betting it won't pan out and I'll tell you why.

The rumor says that BOTH Thomas Hayden Church and Topher Grace will be playing The Chameleon. The twist is that the shapeshifter has been this character warming up to Mary Jane on the sly as the affable Topher Grace. On the surface this sounds not only good, but pretty damn cool. However, wouldn't that make The Chameleon the main villain for Spider-Man 3? Isn't that a kind of weak follow-up to Doc Ock? And isn't The Chameleon a bad choice considering X-MEN's Mystique has been on screens doing the shapeshifting thing for almost 5 years now?

What doesn't make sense to me is that according to Rich Johnson's rumor this is supposed to be a big secret, yet when the casting of Grace was announced it was known he was going to play a villain. If this was supposed to be a big twist in the movie, why would they announce Topher Grace as a villain? Even Avi Arad confirmed his villain status at Comic-Con this year... when asked who the villains were going to be in Spidey 3 Arad answered, "Thomas Hayden Church and Topher Grace" to many "Awwwww"s from the audience. Doesn't make any sense to me.

This also doesn't jive with what I've been hearing from many people close to the production. From the most trusted sources I'm hearing that the villains will be Sandman and Electro. Sandman I'm pretty sure of. I trust in the source who said the second villain was Electro, too, although I've had many different sources who tell me Sandman is in and not so many on Electro.

It's also quite possible we'll be seeing an appearance from Green Goblin 2, but I'd doubt he'd pop up in a big way if there's already 2 confirmed villains, even with these rumors of a changed up Gobby costume and "surf-board-like glider" are to be believed. I'd hope Raimi would slowly build Harry as a character so we really enjoy seeing him on that glider in the 4th film. And for God's sakes change his mask!

Who knows where we'll fall? I bet Raimi and Arad are having a great time laughing at all the rumors flying about. Anybody who has listened to the commentaries on one of the 135,209 different editions of any of the EVIL DEAD movies knows that Raimi can be a bit of a sadist. Instead of him whipping the shit out of Bruce Campbell, he's watching the fan community squirm.

Am I right about the villains? Or am I dead wrong? Could Sony be going forward with Chameleon as the main villain? I honestly don't know for sure and I won't know until they make the official announcement. I like Sandman a lot and the recent appearance of Church on Jay Leno where he revealed he's bulking up for his role makes me think more and more of him wearing that tight black-striped green shirt. Not in a funny way, just sayin'...

Ultimately, we won't know jack until that pre-filming press conference at the end of the year where they plan on announcing the villains. If I hear anything solid in the mean time I'll be sure to pass it along to you good folks. All I know is there's something fishy about a lot of these rumors. What do you guys think of all this? Let me know in the talkbacks below.


Readers Talkback
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  • Aug. 18, 2005, 3:55 a.m. CST

    Maybe Church is playing the Rhino?

    by CKnightShift

    He's a pretty bulky guy. And it'd be fun to see him running around NYC for real.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 3:56 a.m. CST

    Tobey McGuire's Getting Too Old To Play Spiderman

    by PeterAst

    I hope this is the last one, then they should do the next 3 with a new cast, except for maybe J. Jonah.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 3:56 a.m. CST

    Screw it....bring on The Sinister Six

    by RobinP

    Best Spidey annual...EVER.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:07 a.m. CST

    Damn straight RobinP! Sinister Six is a must.

    by Stormin

    Harry Osborn/Green Goblin - James Franco Sandman - Thomas Hayden Church or Tom Sizemore Electro - Mark Gillette or Topher Grace Scorpion - Michael Wincott Vulture - Ben Kingsley For the sixth member there are multiple options: Kraven - Tcheky Karyo (who could possibly be reserved for a sequel where it's him VS Lizard) Beetle - Steve Buscemi (much needed comic relief) Molten Man - Liev Schreiber (fiery goodness)

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:11 a.m. CST

    I'd like to see Rhino

    by John-Locke

    But then I'd also like to see Fire Star and Iceman turn up.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:15 a.m. CST

    Wasn't Chloe Sevigny campaigning a bit...

    by Gheorghe Zamfir

    ...for Black Cat, saying they were casting for the role (or a role very similar to the character). If there's any truth to there being a Black Cat, and with Hayden and Topher, plus Osborne and Connors already in place, you're pretty much 5 villains on your way to a Sinister Six. It'd definintely be an interesting and unconventional way for Raimi to go out, if this ends up being his last Spidey flick (though he's hinted he'd be willing to come back for more).

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:15 a.m. CST

    I know who Tropher Grace is!!!!!

    by LatinPoetofDoom

    He is going to play Ben Riely, the second dude bitten by that "genetically enhanced spider" way back in the first one. Since being bitten, he left NY and was out in good old San Francisco where he developed his version of spider powers and created for himself one Freaking Sweat Cutoff hoodie. Now he's back in NY and he's going to fight Parker to be the real spiderman. Ben isn't an idiot, if he got spider powers from a spider bite, he figures that's probably how Spiderman got his powers too. Methodically he tracks down and eliminates everyone who was around when that spider went a missing. Finally he gets to the P's and makes the connection. Dude takes all of spiderman's photos... so he must be spiderman. Bring on the fight, and when Riely wins he don's a black costume. This is when the chameleon comes in and copies Riely instead of Parker, and frames him up. Parker at the end comes through and saves his spider counterpart from an ridiculously elaborate death at the hands of the chameleon. Unfortunately, Riely dies at the end, sacrificing himself to save Peter and MJ. End of crazy story #1.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:16 a.m. CST

    Villainy...oh the Villains

    by perfecto_fan

    Chameleon? I hope not..That would explain the need for another villain. Sandman would be great though. I am sure in the end, whatever the powers that be decide to do, it will be good. Nut I would like to see a variation of the Sinister Six...Lizard, Sandman, Electro, etc....I would also like to see an improved Green Goblin that does not look like a damn Power Ranger....We'll see...Whatever it is, I hope they do not have the Rhino, he is such a stupid looking character...but I guess aren't all comic characters rather silly-looking? Anyways, I am sure Spidey 3 will be very entertaining in the end.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:17 a.m. CST

    I Concur - And here's why on several points.

    by Ed Wood

    First off the casting of Thomas Hayden Church is interesting as well as Topher Grace - the idea of them playing the same character is clever, especially if the rumors of the Chameleon are true...since they appear as polar opposites physically. But honestly, it's been established that the Spider Man camp is about pushing the envelope with visuals and effects (the sound was amazing for "2" and the prosthetics for Ock are one of a kind). I seriosuly doubt they'd take a back seat with the third installment and use a shapeshifter as their main villain. And it would be so disappointing to have a third story come about focusing on a complex villain without getting more intense action sequences (sequels have to be bigger and better, at least in the Spider-Man sense). And the whole "shapeshifitng" idea is so dull and I can't imagine the FX team being challenged by that. But now...SANDMAN would be something new - something we haven't seen before in comic-based films. The visuals would be refreshing...a new sort of experience that we haven't had before. And Electro would be a good supplemental villain as well. The idea of them holding off from having two villains in the second film was great...because now with a third installment coming would be good to up the stakes now for Peter Parker/Spider-Man. Two villains with considerably different powers would make for very inventive sequences. Just seeing Spidey dealing with two villains at the same time in a climactic battle would be something we've never seen before, or can recall in current years. At least not of this magnitude. Thirdly, the fact that Church is beefing up for this role convinces me they won't let it go to waste with a character like Chameleon...Sandman was muscle - all muscle. Hell, Church even has that creepy glare and grumpy smirk-like expression that Sandman always had. It's perfect. And well, although I was never excited about Grace being cast as a villain and haven't bothered trying to figure out his role. I am more or less convinced that Sandman will be in the film, simply because he's a refreshing experience villain-wise. It makes the most sense. And I pray to God...I hope...they keep Venom out. I think Raimi's concerned with making people pay attention to the villains of yester-year...sort of remind us all of how devastating the old ones can still be.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:25 a.m. CST

    Doc Conners

    by doglips

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:28 a.m. CST

    I work for Sony

    by freak2thec0re

    and I will tell you the Spider-man 3 villian issue was the most talked-about subject I've ever experienced in my 33 years working there. Meeting after meeting after meeting. While weekly a new villian would be brought up only to be shot down for various reasons (not well known enough, powers are "cool" enough, etc.), Venom was all but a go when a new villian was brought up and the board unanimously chose him in what was the quickest meeting I've had on the subject. That's right, the main villian in Spider-man 3 will be none other than Joss Whedon. The most powerful man alive. I wish I could give you more details, but my lips are sealed.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:32 a.m. CST


    by doglips

    Pressed return a little early...Now Dylan Baker has been introduced as Conners, I would like to see him get a chance to really tackle the roll. A slow transformation into the Lizard would echo nicely with Peters own inner demons and this could give some great dialogue between them.....Plus the fact that a three way fight between Spidey, Lizard and Sandman would be something else to behold!

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:37 a.m. CST


    by crazychipmunk

    when it was annouced i thought that topher was surely mysterio, it seems like the perfect fit to me. what do other people think

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:38 a.m. CST

    I Don't Think They Would Use The Lizard

    by Red Lantern

    I think they introduced Doc Connors as an inside reference, and maybe to throw people off the track. Venom would be the coolest, but Sandman has the possibility for some cool visuals. I think they have to do something with Harry at this point, but just the Green Goblin would be disappointing.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:48 a.m. CST

    Spidey could go either way.

    by where_are_quints_hobbit_set_reports

    All the interpersonal nonsense... so and so getting close to Mary Jane disguised as somebody etcetera... suggests the series slipping into WB/Buffy soap opera style, which has been a concern since the first flick. Man, I hate shit like that. "How embarassing! My prom date is a Type 3 ultrademon!"

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:58 a.m. CST

    Harry as Hob-Goblin?

    by General_Mortimer

    I'm not too sure of the Hob-Goblin's backstory in the comics, but making Harry the HG would mean they could re-design the outfit and make it all round more interesting. He's similiar enough to the GG to fit.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 5:08 a.m. CST

    now that pretty much every character in the marvel universe has

    by Colonel_Blimp

    wouldnt it be great if they did the secret wars? i always loved that.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 5:27 a.m. CST


    by freak2thec0re

    not only do you bring up a completely off-topic news story, not only do you label it brand spanking new when it's not, but you do it after this very site has already posted an entire article, complete with talkback, on that exact subject, you know, the one with BOND in the headline?

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 5:28 a.m. CST

    So let me get this straight... This was a news article confirmin

    by Negative Man

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 5:30 a.m. CST

    None of it will matter

    by Kauzi Sezso

    ... unless they come up with a plot. That's what killed the Burton Batman movies; all villains and no story....

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 5:38 a.m. CST

    Hang on. . .

    by senseless

    has anyone thought that the villain is chameleon and he changes into other villains like electro and kraven and others so we see cameos of others, while chameleon is still the main lead. . .?? just a thought

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 5:39 a.m. CST

    Chloe Sevigny as Black Cat...

    by L. Duderino

    ...would rock! I only know her from that last bit of the Brown Bunny, but I was impressed. Seriously though, her head looks about right, don't know if she's got the curves though...

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 5:46 a.m. CST


    by the M'hael

    i dont know man, i dont think vemon could be pulled off well in a movie. there's too much back story....the suit HAS to be linked with spidey, that's what makes it so cool, and there has never been a reconstruction of the back story that satisfied (from the cartoon to the ultimate spidey). not to mention eddie brock, who needs a lot of back story to reeeeaaallly hate spiderman, and have weird thing for "innocence." all these things are really great character builds for a great villain, but to try and pull it off in one movie would probably suck.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 5:59 a.m. CST

    Go for it!

    by Ticklemonkey

    Topher Grace eh? He's a cheeky young man with a glint in his eye, a song in his heart and a smile that could charm the stars from the skies. I say screw the nice persona and get you rocks off with a big, bastard sadist of a role! Come on, he's gone from the lanky dude in That seventies show to a sweet romantic foil in In Good Company (yes i know that was more about boy becoming man than rom com fun, but he had an admirable sincerity in his scenes with johannson), now he just needs to blast off into Character Actor/Star, if such a thing is possible. Look at Gene Hackman in Superman. One of America's finest actors, playing a broadly cartoonish villian. He kicks an unholy amount of arse, and didn't lose an iota of credibility (not in my eyes, at least). In Short, let Topher loose. ...and i'm off to have a "quiet time" to dampen this naked enthusiasm.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 6:05 a.m. CST

    Electro has already had his powers ripped off...

    by Steve Rogers Doctor Doom in the dumbass FF movie. Doom in that movie is basically Electro with a metal mask on. I don't think Arad or the Marvel honchos would be stupid enough to trot out another villain with basically the same powers. Church as Sandman seems a given - he is perfect for the role. I dunno why anyone would think Grace is perfect for Mysterio??? A) Grace is a lot younger than the Quentin Beck of the books and B) the guy has a freakin goldfish bowl on his head! How can you look at anyone and go "Oh yeah, he's Mysterio". Makes no sense to me. I think Grace will either end up being the Chameleon (to be a different kind of villain to the more ass-kicking, physical Sandman) or maybe Venom, which I sincerely hope they won't use, but if they do I bet they will go down the more 'Ultimate Venom' type of road, with him being a childhood friend of Peter's. Arad always says the villains have to be linked to the hero in Marvel movies (which personally I think is getting kind of old - why can't someone just get some badass powers and just decide to be bad because well, fuck it, because they CAN?), so if Venom is there I think it will be that kind of deal. And as much as I don't want to see Venom (yet, maybe), I wouldn't mind seeing the black costume on screen. That outfit fuckin' rocks.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 6:11 a.m. CST

    I don't care who the villain is... I Venom would be sweeet

    by Judge Briggs

    Am I first? Because I am in Africa serving the Peace Corps biatches! Fuck, still haven't seen Batman or Star Wars...

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 6:15 a.m. CST


    by PeterAst

    I know how you feel. Love comes in many forms, and the love that dare not speak its name is still treated with loathing by so many. I know how it feels to be young and confused. I want you to know that YOU are supported and special. No one on any website can tell you any differently. You are your own best friend. I admire your courage in speaking up. If you ever need to talk, I'm ready to listen.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 6:25 a.m. CST


    by First

    Quint ... I believe you used 'jive' when you should have used 'jibe.' For a full explaination see

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 6:36 a.m. CST


    by ALUCINOR11

    Topher won't be a villian at all. I bet they call him a villian because he tries to steal Mary Jane away from Peter because Peter is out being Spiderman and has no time for her or whatever the reason. They will make us think Topher is the villian until they have a HUGE reveal that will be bigger and crazier than DOC OCK because well, that's how sequels make money. Sam is no fool this movie must be bigger and better than spiderman 2 and they are gonna need a fucking sledge hammer of a villian for that one. Or Topher will fight spiderman with the help of Red Forman in the vista cruiser.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 6:58 a.m. CST

    Who I'd like to see as The Black Cat

    by Shermdawg

    Gwen Stefani, hands down. Can she act? Don't know didn't see The Aviator. She'd look smokin hot in that outfit though. Oh, and to ALUCINOR11, maybe Red Foreman is playing The Red Skull.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:10 a.m. CST

    One villain has to be Green Goblin 2 to finish that story.

    by Darksider

    Both actors being the Chameleon is a great idea. Having two known actors playing the same villain is new plus it would add more presence to a guy who basically just changes his look. Also remember that the Chameleon was Spider-man's first super criminal and first repeating enemy. That has to be something to Raimi. Also, Raimi has a fetish for all of Spidey's enemies to have a personal relationship with him so maybe Osbrorn hires the Chameleon to mess with Peter's person life as well as Spidey. Oh, and the Black Cat must have DD's.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:12 a.m. CST

    Gwen too skinny?

    by L. Duderino

    But Chloe as well probably. We need a chick with curves, people! Black Cat is sexier than Cat Woman (at least in my book). CW is a bit too much SM-fetish for my taste...

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:20 a.m. CST


    by L. Duderino

    Sandman is cool, but nothing we haven't seen before (T2 anyone?), Chameleon is boring, the Hobgoblin could be cool, but only if they do the mask right this time, the Lizard is too similar to Ock imho (backstory-wise) and not dangerous enough, Black Spidey/Venom is uber-cool, but might not mix with the older enemies...

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:23 a.m. CST


    by The Beast

    What happened to all this supposed build-up to seeing the Lizard come to light? Doc Connors has made two big appearances, and we haven't "scene" one scalely mutation. I'd like to see Sandman, cause the chameleon never did it for me. Also, I'm hoping Raimi doesn't do Venom, only because I think Venom works better in the comics. It's a symbiotic relationship, they communicate to each other, the sybiote helps fuel eddie's rage... i think that just having "evil" spider-man in a movie is cheesy and shouldn't be done. Fanboys need to cool thier jets, cause if they follow through on every fanboy's dream, and stop making quality movies, then Spider-man will never see the light of day again. I'm up for a Lizard, ELectro, Shocker, Sandman, Hobgoblin, Hydroman or Even a Kraven kind of thang. Maybe even a derranged cannibal Vulture... but then again, maybe I didn't just say that... but it would make for a cool dark story... people being abducted by a vulture guy... asside from that, i think all of the said villians above could make a good translation to film.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:25 a.m. CST

    Well if it's Electro and Sandman...

    by Kid Z

    ... the final fight resolution has been blown. Of course Spidey will get them pissed at each other, then kick out a convenient fire hydrant, shorting out Electro and turning Sandy into glass... Yawn!

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:34 a.m. CST

    Ok if Gwens a no go, how about...

    by Shermdawg

    Kate Hudson with some CGI tits?

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:38 a.m. CST

    All this speculation is making me mad!

    by Pacino86845

    Please, please tell us which villains they'll be playing!!!! I can't stand the suspense!!!!! Damn you, Raimi, I've been a fan of yours way before you started doing Spider-man!!! You owe this to me, man!!!!

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:41 a.m. CST


    by ALUCINOR11

    Red foreman was more than a match for robocop he could fuck with spiderman.. someone needs to yell I'D BUY THAT FOR A DOLLAR! at some point. Peter Weller should be venom so he could say YOUR MOVE CREEP right before he fights spiderman. Dear god if only crossover movies were good. Red Forman and Hulk Hogan battle Spiderman... DUMBASS...BROTHER!!! and then peter weller jumps out DEAD OR ALIVE YOUR COMING WITH ME... and then Reiner Wolfcastle yells THE GOGGLES, THEY DO NOTHING!

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:43 a.m. CST


    by Mr Jonse

    They keep the villains secret so we'll generate publicity by discussing it on the internet. Personally I can't see them going from one who flies and throws bombs, to one with eight limbs, to one who's power is he turns into Topher Grace. I say Sandman or Venom (which might be convoluted sure, but I've got faith in Raimi).

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:43 a.m. CST

    I'm with ya Darksider

    by RenoNevada2000

    We need some resolutionn to Harry's subplot within this or the next film. To drag it out any further would be freakin' rediculous.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:53 a.m. CST


    by Yeti

    What about Kingpen? Rhino? The Vulture? Kraven the Hunter? So many villians so little time....

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:57 a.m. CST

    One thing that would make the Chameleon interesting...

    by Chicken2nite

    Would be if he were to at one point attempt to just completely fuck with Harry by pretending to be his pop. Not entirely sure how they could make that work, but I'm sure they could figure something out if they felt like it.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:58 a.m. CST

    Topher is the cloned Spider-Man

    by Fred4sure

    Old news. That was decided a long time ago.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:01 a.m. CST

    Connect the dots, people...It's the Sinister Six!

    by SpyGuy

    Sandman, Electro, Black Cat, Lizard, Harry as Hobgoblin, and John Jameson as Venom. There's your Six. Just wait and see...

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:03 a.m. CST

    Oh, and I think it would be cool if we were to see

    by Chicken2nite

    Peter Parker age. There's a few storylines I'd like to see happen, but I doubt we'll ever see a big Marvel Mayhem Movie, where they've got all the characters in there for a giant epic, ala that story from the 80's. So the other one I'd like to see is Maximum Carnage, where Peter is really getting just pounded on from every angle by these maniacs on the loose. I say Maximum Carnage, but that carries a lot of baggage with it. So perhaps Sinister Six would be a better call, although they're killing off hte villains as they go, so unless they somehow bring Doc Ock back to life, I don't see the point really. Anyways, now I really need to feed the cats

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:06 a.m. CST

    this site is waaay too spoiler heavy

    by badmojo232

    if topher grace and thomas hayden church do indeed play the same villain, and that villain is chameleon, then this site will have spoiled the most interesting development in any of the spiderman movies. the rumor makes perfect sense to me, because why else would the production team keep the identity of the villain secret from us for so long? we knew about alfred molina and doc ock as soon as the shoot had started on SM2. Thanks for blowing it, and giving me so little forewarning. The word "Chameleon" under the headline would have perfectly sufficed.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:12 a.m. CST

    So They Set Up The Lizard and Hobgoblin To Not Use Them?

    by ZombieSolutions


  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:17 a.m. CST

    Isn't it obvious who the villain will be?!!!!!

    by IAmMrMonkey

    Stan Lee! He's been trailing all of the marvel superheroes around using different disguises so he can steal their DNA. You wait - in SM3, he appears with the strength of Hulk, the acrobatic skills of the X-Men, the combines abilities of the Fantastic 4 and Spider-Man's wallclimbing/webslinging powers. Can Spidey stop Stan The Man? I THINK NOT!

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:32 a.m. CST

    Eliza Dushku as Black Cat

    by Darth Busey

    Would be good.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:37 a.m. CST


    by NeoDurden

    When I saw Church on Leno with the hair on his lip, it gave me the impression that he might be Kraven. It would be cool if Harry hires Kraven to hunt Spidey for him, though, that is essentially what he did with Doc Ock in 2. I really hope Venom is not in this. Just too far fetched to gel with the last two movies.

  • And I don't even remember who the Hob Goblin's identity was, just that there was more than one and one was supposed to be a nice guy who was dating one of the women in Spidey's life (was it Betty?). It doesn't even matter, I think Grace should be Parker instead of Maguire, and the idea of him playing Eddie Brock as a darker Peter is the best approach I could have imagined to the Venom character. And you know, maybe he's just playing Brock in this movie, and the alien costume thing will only be introduced and will turn into Venom for the next movie! I know, probably not. Sorry it might not happen that way, but I hope I like whatever they do instead.

  • as a foil to Peter & MJ's relationship. They wouldn't have said he was a villain but just a guy trying to steal MJ from Peter. Besides, even if that was the twist, it would have been revealed in the trailer and TV ads anyway, because no secret is safe from the marketing department.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:46 a.m. CST

    No Chameleon

    by pjdon

    Having a shape shifting bad guy is so lazy, all them parts in x-men 1 and 2 bored me, it just seems like a cop out. I think havin bad guys like the Lizard being developed but not used adds depth to the films, it points towards a bigger universe. Personaly i think having Topher Grace as Venom and having him as a mirror image of Spidermans character is very intersting. Thomas Hayden Church is brilliant, he'll steal the film whoever he plays.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:47 a.m. CST


    by BTR1701

    What the heck are you talking about? Gained 30 pounds? She's still barely 120 lbs soaking wet. And I have no idea what you mean by "hit her in the face repeatedly with a frying pan". Here are some recent photos she took for a magazine layout. Looks damn fine to me. and If that's hit in the face repeatedly with a frying pan, then give me a frying pan girl anyday.

  • modify the story from Spider-man #100 to include Hayden-Church as Sandman. Spider-man, The Lizard, Morbius, the Sandman - all different kinds of mutations through science; Doc Connors is helping Spidey try and rid himself of his extra arms; Morbius (and Sandman) hold the key in their altered DNA. Even with four extra arms, with that many villains, Spidey will have his hands full (all six of them).

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:57 a.m. CST

    Maybe Church is The Jackal and Topher is the Spider-Clone, Ben R

    by Big Bad Clone

    [shudder] after thinking of that, I'd welcome a Venom/Carnage movie even though a loathe that thought as much as a Shocker/Hydro-Man movie.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:58 a.m. CST

    fuck sandman and electro and venom and vulture!!!

    by occams_razor

    Cardiac for Spidey 3!!!! Actually, the vengeful spirit of Johnny Cash would make a great villain cause he would go after Spider-Man for having such a suck-ass soundtrack to his movies. Sorry, I listened to the radio this morning on the way to work and the shit that passes for good music makes me want to vomit on a nun. I mean, can anyone explain to me why papa roach has gotten as far as they have? The only thing I can think of is Bill Hick's old rant about sucking Satan's cock. Ok, enough rant, I'm going to drink some more coffee.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9 a.m. CST

    I know this was WAY upthread, but...

    by BillyShakes

    "...the prosthetics for Ock are one of a kind..." Huh? Isn't this the same site that ragged on the prosthetics for being to "Matrix-y"? I liked the arms, but, yeah, they were very "Matrix-y" and in NO way, shape or form, "one of a kind." I'm SHOCKED, you guys. I would have expected SOMEONE to have commented on this already... *grin*

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:06 a.m. CST

    Give me Venom or don't give me anything!

    by brokentusk

    Sandman might be cool visually, but the old school SPIDER-MAN villains are lame. VENOM BITCHES!

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:07 a.m. CST

    Why did I post twice?

    by Shermdawg

    I don't like these movies in the first place. Enough with Spider-Man villian speculation. I wanna know who's leadin the pack for the new Joker. I wish it was Denis Leary. Actually I wish it was Willem Defoe but he's damaged goods now as a comic villian. Leary always complains about getting mistaken for Defoe, strange thing is I think they look nothing alike, and Leary was my backup Joker. Weird.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:10 a.m. CST

    Just a Thought...

    by Akira'sCrow

    ...but Church could be Venom and Grace could be Cletus Cassidy who then becomes Carnage. Cassidy has always been real wiry and slim, and personally I prefer Carnage to Venom. Just a thought.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:11 a.m. CST

    Annual #1 - Best Spidey annual...EVER.

    by cookylamoo

    More like one of the five best comic books ever written. Anyway, if it's Sandman and Electro, you know the ending. Spidy ducks and Electro fuses the Sandman into glass. Can't imagine the Sinister Six without Doc Ock.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:13 a.m. CST

    Maybe they play Styx and Stone...

    by Big Bad Clone

    that shitty villian duo with a strong dude named Stone and a Vulture knock-off named Styx.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:14 a.m. CST

    My money is that it's NOT Black Cat!

    by Shigeru

    It's Gwen Fucking Stacy people!

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:14 a.m. CST

    Topher as the Red Ghost and Church as one of his Super-Apes!

    by Big Bad Clone

    I'd see that.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:15 a.m. CST

    An Emphatic "HELL YEAH" For Dushku For Black Cat

    by ZombieSolutions

    but it won't happen. she is strictly B-list, unfortunately. she would be PERFECT though. seeing as how Faith basically is Black Cat... (but brunette)

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:24 a.m. CST

    Please stop mentioning the Clone debacle.It took years to get ov

    by The True Priapic

    What a mess that was.

  • Doc Ock is not dead. Lizard has been established. Harry is Hobgoblin. Church as Sandman. Grace as Chameleon. The sixth will not be Jameson as Venom, but will establish the symbiote costume. Then Raimi will bow out and move to exec producer.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:29 a.m. CST

    fuck styx and stone! Grace and Church are KNIGHT & FOGG!

    by Shigeru

    yeah I went there.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:35 a.m. CST

    im a big spidey fan so listen to me

    by BrainFart

    they wont wrap up harry's saga quite yet, oscorp has too much potential to be orgins for villains. Think about it if harry were to hire kraven and chameleon to attack parker at both fronts , chameleon fucken up parkers life and kraven kicken spidey ass. seems like a good plot. also if oscorp can make another doc ock prosthetic like (i dont know) SCOPION's!! maybe scorpion and dr. conners could be collegues. Rami is definately going with themes that coincide parkers life, so i think kraven chameleon would be best. Chameleon could fake mary janes death driving peter temporarily insane and trick him into fighting and killing kraven. Peter would never be able to recover (he never did in the comics) Green goblin and lizard would be a good theme for spidey 4. two friends one capable of redemption one not.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:36 a.m. CST

    Naw, it's Hulk villains "Rock and Redeamer"

    by cookylamoo

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:38 a.m. CST


    by BTR1701

    I'm not sure whether you're just misremembering or comparing her unfavorably to the other stick-thin anorexic actresses she worked with on "Buffy" but I've known her for going on six years now and she's never come close to being "chubby". Anyone normal would look heavy when standing next to Sarah Gellar. The woman disappears when she turns sideways. Liza works out constantly, running, martial arts, etc. and one of the only positive comments one reviewer had for "Wrong Turn" was how toned and in shape she was, noting how "nice" her arms looked when she was tied to the freak's bed at the end of the movie and was straining to get free.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:49 a.m. CST

    Bring back the Aquaf@g thread...

    by cookylamoo

    I still have many comments to make about cheese.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:51 a.m. CST

    Will They Use "Rhyno" the Pro-Wrestler?


  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:51 a.m. CST

    Electro, Sandman, and Hobgoblin

    by docfalken

    I've called it. Spell my name right when you hear Raimi and Arad repeat it.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:54 a.m. CST


    by smackfu

    Topher Grace will play Man-Bat! It's perfect! And Thomas Hayden Church will obviously be playing Paul the Thinking Gorilla from Electic Company.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 10:07 a.m. CST

    I'm calling it right now!

    by Mooly

    If the villains are sandman and Electro, at some point Spider-man will dodge an electric attack and it will hit sandman turning him into glass. Mark my words.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 10:07 a.m. CST

    black costume

    by stvnhthr

    There is a lot of pressure from Marvel to get the Black Costume up on the screen in some way shape or form simply because it will allow for two distictly different costumes to fuel action figure sales from their Toybiz branch. I'm hoping the whole Venom sub-plot will be used as a third act teaser to set up Spider-man 4.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 10:10 a.m. CST

    Seriously - I wonder...

    by Mr. Jerwa

    ...could Topher be Ned Leeds? He fits the description now, and he could be a potential fall guy for Harry's Hobgoblin operations.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 10:14 a.m. CST

    Sorry Mooley....I posted that an hour ago.

    by cookylamoo

    Not that you're wrong.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 10:16 a.m. CST

    2 films into it and no Venom or Carnage?

    by Mr. Profit

    The Spidey films are way overrated.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 10:18 a.m. CST

    Count Dushku/Charisma Carpenter

    by L. Duderino

    Both shite! Black Cat has curves, CURVES! I'm talking Lopez/Beyonce/RosarioDawson-curves! But she has to be white (look what happened to Cat Woman!), with white hair....

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 10:18 a.m. CST

    These pretzels...

    by Azlam Orlandu

    ...are making me thirsty! How was the delivery? Too grief-stricken? Faster, more intense huh? -Az

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 10:23 a.m. CST

    Why use a C or D list villain like Chameleon when Spiderman has

    by riskebiz

    Chameleon over Sandman? Or Electro? With Kraven, Mysterio, The Vulture, The Lizard .... the list goes on and on of a great rogue gallery and the Chameleon is near the bottom of that list with Hammerhead and other C or D list villains. Why on earth would they pick Chameleon? And Harry's arguement considering Mystique are really valid, too. Makes no sense why Chameleon is the villain.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 10:24 a.m. CST


    by Brendon

    Okay, here's some stuff not discussed in any of the coverage of this, but I know the original source of Rich Johnston's story, so I can add now: the Chameleon character starts out as a normal man, an identity thief with no "powers". He uses his skills to get a hold of some sci-fi doo-dah, from one of the many labs that litter Peter Parker's New York, to better pull off his ID swaps - by giving him these Chameleonic powers. This fits the semi-realistic approach taken in the previous two filnms to a tee. Its one of the reasons I believe the source has a point. That and also because I know where they got their info from in the first place. Worst case this is a bluff orchestrated from within the offices of Raimi/Arad. No point not revealing Grace is a villain now - they KNOW they won't be able to prtect that spoiler until screendate, and the audience will presumably be let in on it early enough. Just that Peter won't be...?

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 10:28 a.m. CST

    Confusing sandman with chameleon

    by hateful_al

    Perhaps the person leaking this info is confused. A modern take on Sandman could easily lead to a shape-shifter-type description, which leads us to speculate that that means chameleon. Who knows - maybe Spidey 3's modern/filmic take on 'Sandman' is sans sand and instead focusing on his ability to mould his body anyway he wants?

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 10:29 a.m. CST

    "Hey tiger!"

    by L. Duderino

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 10:36 a.m. CST

    What about Pandora Peaks?

    by cookylamoo

    She came pretty close.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 10:36 a.m. CST

    The Hobgoblin...

    by Childe Roland

    ...was Ned Leeds, Drath. They slit his throat in East Germany way back in a Wolverine/Spidey special (late 80s maybe?). And Topher should've been Peter Parker. To see him on the screen in a Spidey movie not being Spidey will just be weird. Also, Venom and Carnage are two of the biggest wastes of ink that Marvel ever produced. Boring characters in the vein of Bizarro. The Spidey films have been among the best of comic movies so far. Let's not ruin that with yet another "The Hero Fights a Villain with Exactly the Same Powers He Has" story. I'm sure this will be the last Spidey film with the current cast, so wrap up the story for Harry and give us Green Goblin 2 with Sandman (Harry's cousin in the books) and save Topher for the next one as the title character.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 11:08 a.m. CST

    Spiderman 3 needs more Cheese

    by John-Locke

    Gouda, Emmental, Stilton, Cheddar or Parmesan but definately no Provolone, that would be my lover.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 11:11 a.m. CST

    Doc "he who's hung like a donkey" Falken is my master now.

    by MasterWhedon

    Son of a bitch called it WEEKS ago.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 11:25 a.m. CST

    Church & Grace = Kangaroo & Gibbon!!!

    by Johnny Ahab

    Come on, who's with me?? Seriously though, Chameleon is a snoozeroo -- that's gotta be a red herring to fuck with the fans. Yeah, lots of action potential with Chameleon. I'd love to see Sandman and I could live with Electro (although I always liked the Scorpion myself -- but man, that could look super lame on film). Ben Kingsley as the Vulture woulda rocked though...

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 11:44 a.m. CST

    it makes more sense to have GG2 and sandman

    by Tommy West

    come on have spidey fighting sandman at the start of the film, spidey kicks his ass, harry wants revenge pays bail and gets sandman out of prison they go 2 on 1 with spidey. Then in 4 we have black cat as the villian/ love interest also spidey get the alien custom like he did in the 90s tv show. over 3and 4 brocks character is built up to shwo his hatrid for spiderman. 5 is just venom as the villian he mess with peters mind and his loved ones. 6 carnage, venom and spidey team up. done and done

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 11:45 a.m. CST

    RE: Hobgoblin's true id

    by Boneyard

    Hey Childe Roland, The Hobgoblin as Ned Leeds was just a stop-gap solution that the new writer on the Spider-Man books came up with. However, there were plot holes with the Leeds as Hobby story that irked the fans. Roger Stern, the creator and author of the original Hobgoblin issues came back in the late 90's with a mini-series called "Hobgoblin Lives" where the true ID of the Hobgoblin was revealed and all the loose plotlines from the original books were (mostly) tied up. SPOILER The real Hobgoblin was a (seemingly) secondary character named Roderick Kingsley whom Mary Jane Watson worked for at one point. END SPOILER Though I'm sure for the movie, they'll just make Harry the Hobgoblin. Makes more sense.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 11:47 a.m. CST

    Why not do the whole Indiana Jones thing...

    by faesforce

    ...where the movie begins with Spidey taking down a villain we haven't seen before - one of the crook ones - like , say the Scorpion? The first ten minutes could be Spidey foiling a super-villains attempt at robbing a bank or something - battle ensues - Spidey cleans up and the cops take the crook away? This is such a good idea for so many reasons. It starts off the movie with a bang. We get to see another Spidey villain - one that doesn't necessarily have to be the focus of the whole film or be tied to Peter's life in any significant way. And they can have another cool character for the action figure line. Just like in the Indiana Jones series or the Bond franchise, where we see the heroes at the end of one adventure, before they start on the next one. Let's face it - Sony has enough money to design and implement another small - time Spidey villain for us.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 11:58 a.m. CST


    by jim

    I thought Ned Leeds was the original Hobgoblin (during the whole Rose thing). After he was killed the guy who was Jackolantern became the new Hobgoblin. And he was turned into a real demon during the X-men Inferno story line. Or am I remembering it wrong?

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 11:59 a.m. CST

    I agree - Sinister Six is the way to go

    by SifoDyasJr.

    Several small time supervillians who all get their asses kicked by Spidey are brought together by a new Green Goblin--all with a movie long mystery as to whether or not Gobby 2 is Harry Osborn or not. I would like to see the black and white costume, but not Venom. Also, I have a hunch that Topher Grace was brought on board in case Tobey has another 'back injury'.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 12:10 p.m. CST

    SifoDyasJr, I like your idea

    by jim

    Have the movie open with a series of quick scenes of Spidey defeating 5 of the Sinister Six on seperate occasions. Then have the new Goblin (maybe Harry, maybe not) break them out and bring them together to defeat Spider-man. And the film climaxes with Spidey in a battle-royale agains all 6.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 12:26 p.m. CST

    I have learned new things...

    by Childe Roland this talkback: 1.) That Marvel retconned the hell out of Hobgoblin sometime after I stopped reading comics religously. 2.) That there exists a pocket within the universe in which even anchorite and I can be in complete agreement on something. Tobey's Prozac-enhanced delivery has been my only real complaint about the Spidey franchise so-far( aside from being pissed that Dunst didn't play Gwen Stacy and die on that bridge, and that it was ridiuculous to cover up Willem DaFoe's creepy mug to play the Green Goblin, and that a single punch from Spidey should've taken Doc Ock's head off or at least shattered his jaw). Spidey should be pithy, not suicidally depressed. Still, these have been some great movies overall so far. Let's not fuck them up with all that Venom/Carnage nonsense.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Sifo and Big Jim

    by MasterWhedon

    That's a decent enough idea for movie 6, but not for movie 3. You have some of the past villains that Spidey's faced (hopefully they won't ALL die), so you don't have to do exposition for each one. There will still be some emotional resonance because of Spidey's and the audience's past experiences with each villain, but advancing to two (potentially three) villains in movie 3 seems like the furthest you could take it just yet. Maybe soon...

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 12:36 p.m. CST

    What about The Tinkerer?Huh?Yeah,he was shit...

    by The True Priapic

    ...and an alien.I never got the Venom thing.Just a monster thats motivation was kill,kill,kill.The silver foil covers and then the clone 'saga' was an awful lot to take for old schoolers.What a fucking mess.I take it everyone remembers the Clone's outfit?Fucking HELL!What does he look like?I bet Mary Jane makes the black outfit if they actually use it.And I fucking bet they end on a cliffhanger.Or are they gonna go with a wedding?.......Did Ron Frenz return to draw Hobgoblin lives?And does anyone remember that awesome What If?when pete stopped the burglar before he shot Uncle Ben.Spidey became a super rich celeb in Hollywood with DD as his lawyer and then the sinister six(I think) got on his case.Pete swanned around by his pool with a terrible quiff and Uncle Ben and him argued to a point where he was kick out for his primadonna attitude.It ended with DD saving Pete(who got all cowardly) but DD dies,pete kicks ass and DD dies in his arms.Pete then swears over Reds body 'with great power.....'.So ultimately even in an alternative reality his destiny is sealed.God I loved that as a kid.It was shocking as I think DD gets a damn good kicking to death and is covered in blood.To a kid,that was my first intro to comic violence.Anyone know where I can get a copy?

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 12:37 p.m. CST

    Topher Grace is ....STEGRON!!!

    by The True Priapic

    How cool!

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 1:08 p.m. CST

    True dat, Quint

    by Ribbons

    I'd started to think that the rumor about Topher Grace and Thomas Haden Church playing the same character was interesting, but you're right, if they already announced Topher as a villain then you're going to be watching him date Mary Jane with that information already out there. It makes the "twist" of them being the same person much less of a twist. The thing I can't figger out is Church's comment to Entertainment Weekly, in which he called his character a "horse of many colors." Was he just fucking with us? I suppose it's possible.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 1:21 p.m. CST

    It's JIBE, gosh darn it.

    by jollysleeve

    Man, and the funny part is, it's not like you misused the word "jive" once. You somehow managed to squeeze it in about 47 times in this article.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 1:24 p.m. CST

    This site can tell you all about the Hobgoblin "retcon"

    by Boneyard

    As a long time Hobgoblin fan, I for one, was very glad to see Stern (with art by Ron Frenz) come back and finally clear things up. Part One - Part Two - Part 3 - Part 4 -

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 1:30 p.m. CST

    Glad We Busted this case wide open

    by RJ MacReady

    Oh my god it makes perfect sense they will cast Hayden and Topher as one of the following Sandman, Electro, Venom, Chameleon, Lizard, Hobgoblin, GreenGoblin, Carnage, Vulture, Rhino, Mysterio, Kraven or Scorpion. I can't believe i didn't see it before. Goodwork everybody, another great job figuring it out.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 1:31 p.m. CST

    TruePriapic, I have that issue of What If

    by jim

    If I remember right, JJJ was the guy behind the villains because he was mad that Spidey , with all his powers, he was a jackass celebrity while JJ's astronaut son died coming back from space. That's what I liked about the original What If series. They really looked at the consequences of the change and how it affected everyone. Any comic shop worth its salt should be able to hook you up with that issue.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 1:40 p.m. CST

    I thought Black Cat was all but confirmed?

    by performingmonkey

    They developed Black Cat for Spides 2 but Raimi threw it out early on and wrote extra depth for Octavius. In the commentary he says she will appear at some point, so I would assume Spides 3. A female villain is pretty much a dead cert after two male villains, don't you agree? The studio would like this, and it would give some variety. I wouldn't believe the bullshit Chameleon rumours as there are at least 3 other villains that would be better than him, including Sandman, Hobgoblin, Vulture and even Venom...

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Fesforce, i had a similar idea...

    by The Beast

    I was thinking movie opens with spidey figting sandman and hydroman (i thought of this before sandman was even suggested) like, they're two really powerful dudes, and how could spidey possibly overcome something like this, and he does, maybe by having them collide into a quicksand puddle, and as hydroman and sandman fight for control, they just get scooped up, taken away... then the real movie begins.. however, i think it's a waste of sandman, but hydroman is second-stringer enough to be a back-up villian...sigh.. .i need a nap...

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 1:46 p.m. CST

    aicn is really out of the loop

    by ZO

    everyone has known for months that grace is playing venom and church is playing sandman. u guys at AICN really have no hollywood sources at all.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 1:51 p.m. CST

    why not 3?

    by Willeat4food

    The third movie in a series calls for even more mayhem than the first two... I'm thinking Batman Returns here... so why not three villains in the third movie?

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 1:55 p.m. CST

    Bruce Campbell is The Scorpion

    by Vex Machine

    Say the Chamelion thing is true and Harry's turn to GG2 is on slow burn, we've still got the direct-from-the-comics storyline of JJJ hiring/creating The Scorpion (played by Bruce Campbell) and the likely Raimi-original of grief stricken/bitter John Jameson going on a space mission and finding the Venom symbiote to fill out #3. #4 will then have GG2 and Venom as the main baddies, plus maybe Black Cat. I think they're going to keep building the rogues gallery for a while and finally, for Spider-Man #6, they'll unleash the Sinister 6. That'll come out in like 2015, and the kid they just cast for The Omen remake will play Spidey.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 2:10 p.m. CST

    Topher as Carnage?

    by ScaryGaron

    Anyone else think he'd make a great carnage?

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 2:13 p.m. CST

    Topher is Commander Rann & Church is Acroyear.. Spidey enters th

    by Baron Karza

    In my frikin' dreams.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 2:15 p.m. CST

    Hey, anchorite

    by jollysleeve

    We should count our blessings. At no point in the article does he use the phrase, "I could care less."

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 2:29 p.m. CST

    natural progression of villains

    by Hud

    Spider-Man has fought a goblin and an octopus. the natural progression

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 2:40 p.m. CST

    Whoever just suggested...

    by Childe Roland

    ...Campbell for Scorpion should get an award for best not ridiculous idea in the talkback. Just look at Bruce's mug and imagine it in the Scorpion's mask (for reference, look at Scorpius' getup on Farscape... I'm pretty sure they cribbed that from a comic panel). That way we'd get to see Campbell play a comedically hard luck private dick for the first part of the movie and a smack-talking tough guy with a stinger tail for the rest. It would, indeed, rule. That's why it won't happen.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Big Juim....What if?You're right about JJJ...

    by The True Priapic

    ...I'm only going by memory from 25 years ago but as I typed earlier it came to me 'wasn't John Jameson killed in it?'.I'm fairly sure DD gets beaten to death.I'm all stoked for this shit now,I'm gonna scour for it at the weekend!!I also remember the buildup to the Hobgoblin reveal was awesome but the issue of the revel,I'm sure the writer and Frenz had been pushed or ran due to creative differences,hence Ned Leeds making no fucking sense and the artwork being poor.I seem to remember a full page art of Ned turning to 'camera'/artist saying "who dares?" or something and an assasin saying "NED LEEDS!" so the reader would know who the fuck he was!Wasn't he married to Betty?Fuck,I'm going after the Frenz Hobgob returns shit as well.remember the Rose,Puma,Spidey dislocating his shoulder,the return of the red+blue suit?Man,I used to love those comics!!About the same time as the great Mutie Massacre.God,I can remember genuinely thinking Wolvie was gonnna get it.I even refused to look a box further so the tension was that high!GOD....WHAT A GEEK I WAS/AM!!!!Sheesh.....

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Why the hell would they use another actor to be the clone of pet

    by antonphd

    Sinister Six is one way to go if the suits think that 3 spiderman movies is all they can really expect to make massive money on, then they are going out with a bang. Otherwise, they are shooting their whole load on one movie and the rest are going to be too like trying to make a sequel to T2. As for the clone, why in the hell would they cast another actor for that? Just when I thought people on this site were smart. WTF was that idea from multiple people? I think that Kraven is cool, but I don't thinks he has 'big' enough 'powers' to be movie material. Since he has none. Which of course makes his even cooler, but I don't think that it's a fit for the movies. Sandman would be spectacular. There is so much that could be done with that character that is cool. Mysterio is ass and so is the Chameleon. NOBODY will go see a movie with those bad guys in it. Man wolf and the lizard have potential and if those two were in it I COULD see Kraven fitting into the movie. It's hard though. These movies are too bright and colorful for Kraven. So, if they went dark and scarey with Man-bat, Lizard, Kraven... but then who the hell is Topher playing. Ah well. Won't happen anyway. Nah... Sandman, Scorpion... cause he'd be in some kind of body armor... or or or... Topher is hired by Harry to be the Scorpion. yeah. That'd be cool. Harry isn't ready to be a bad guy yet though. He's still a kid. His dad was world wise and was quick to go for the throat. Harry hasn't had to be cut throat enough yet. The coolest thing about all of this is that we can all speculate based on the fact that we know that Raimi is going to make smart decisions. Feels good just knowing that.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 3:03 p.m. CST

    Kraven's Last Hunt

    by jim

    Hayden-Church as Kraven, Topher Grace as Vermin, the voice of James Earl Jones for Chameleon. Of course the movie-going public would have no clue who any of them are so 2/3 of the movie would be exposition, which wouldn't work. Oh yeah, and it was a black costume story too (but the fake one, not the symbiote).

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 3:06 p.m. CST

    topher grace is black cat

    by one man orgy

    chameleon has so many applications: He could turn into a fire hydrant and get Peter all sorts of parking tickets or he could turn into a seesaw on which spiderman could fight hobgoblin in the final battle

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 3:27 p.m. CST

    I Know Who the Villain Is...

    by Flem_Snopes

    It's that "Just a Guy Named Joe" dude from Spiderman #38. However, I think the Terrible Tinkerer is a good choice. And of they ever do another FF movie, it should have Kurrgo, Master of Planet X, and if they do a Thor movie the villains should be the Stone Men from Saturn. Old Marvel villains, indeed, do kick ass!

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 3:40 p.m. CST


    by bobster52

    The Sandman would be the best bet for the villain but please don't have Mary Jane kidnapped for a third time. It's starting to get old.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 3:50 p.m. CST

    Hayden Church as Mary Jane

    by Vex Machine

    He'd look better than Kirsten Dunst.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 3:53 p.m. CST


    by Shigeru

    i would do naughty things to Kirsten Dunst. I don't get the hate. Everyone should look up that Maxim photo shoot of her.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 3:55 p.m. CST


    by themikejonas

    Thomas Hayden Church as Michael Bay, Topher Grace as Ehren Kruger, Jack Black as Brett Ratner, and Dennis Quaid as Uwe Boll (with a special cameo appearance by Eric McCormack as Bryan Singer).

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:02 p.m. CST

    Look, all I know, is what my friend told me...

    by iamnicksaicnsn

    And there was no reason for him to lie within the context of the conversation. All I know, is his friend works at Sony and saw Sand-Man stuff, Green Goblin 2 stuff with a surf-board-style-ish glider, and he also saw a Black Spider-Man costume, a Venom costume, and even Venom goo which i assume is either symbiont or just spit. Also, Raimi is apparently inspired by Chris Nolan to make Spider-Man a little more real with less reliance on CG. So could his friend have lied to him? Of course. But did my friend lie to me? Doubt it.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:06 p.m. CST

    Jenna Elfman as Black Cat. She and Spidey get married. She's

    by Big Bad Clone

    how wacky!

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:12 p.m. CST

    And Jerry Mathers as the Beaver

    by cookylamoo

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:18 p.m. CST

    Charisma looks like she's 12 in that first photo on your lin

    by Big Bad Clone

    Women actually gain breast tissue as they go through puberty. I know that's hard to understand, but just remember when you wnet from a training bra to a full C cup, anchorite.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:19 p.m. CST

    It should be "jibe," not "jive," Quint.

    by 3 Bag Enema

    And if Topher isn't Ultimate Venom, I'll be pissed.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:19 p.m. CST

    How about that class president chick from Sky High as Black Cat

    by Big Bad Clone

    Hot Damn!!!

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:27 p.m. CST


    by Ribbons

    U R 2 Fun E. lol!!!11 ;-)

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:33 p.m. CST

    Please not the Chameleon, ps. Sevigny vs. Dushku

    by Homer Sexual

    While the idea of a "complex" villain could be interesting, the Black Cat and I have the same opinion regarding Spider-Man's life as Peter Parker. It is boring cliche and I just wait for the action to begin. So I want multiple villains and nonstop action. Speaking of the Black Cat, how can someone say Dushku is B-list in comparison to any of the other actresses mentioned here? Gwen is too much older than Tobey. And Chloe, well she has an ugly face and a dumpy body (not exactly a stick figure, either). I have a feeling it is Electro and Sandman, because the inevitable conclusion seems dead on. Topher as Venom or Carnage would be great, though, even without the original backstory.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:45 p.m. CST


    by the M'hael

    i have to agree with anchorite 100% about "snaggle tooth" dunst. not only does she looked drugged up all the time, but her hair is starting to look progressively nattier and she has the screen presence of my dong. not to mention, she talks shit about the spidey movies all the time. i've read articles and seen interviews of her saying she wished they would just kill off the mary jane character so she could be done with it all. whatta bitch-these movies propelled her into a new level of stardom, and she doesn't even have the good grace to keep her mouth shut.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 4:56 p.m. CST


    by quadrupletree

    I think you're dead on Quint. If the rumors sound fishy, and they aren't confirmed, and this site has any journalistic integrity (That's an IF) then you shouldn't report it. There's so many rumors going around the net on this production already, and I agree Sam Raimi is just sitting on his ass somewhere laughing it up and enjoying the hell out of twisting the knife just a little longer. I thought they would announce something at comic-con personally...

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 5:23 p.m. CST

    Plot Speculation and Villain Hierarchy

    by darth_alamew

    Let's follow the logic. At the end of SM2, Peter seemed to be on his way to getting his shit together; he's not 100% there, but as Mr. Miyagi would say, he's finding his balance, between school and money and MJ and being Spidey. So let's assume THC is *either* the Chameleon, who's basically putting a mindfuck on Peter and MJ; or Sandman, who's basically a thug, hired muscle with super-powers. Let's suppose Grace is some amalgamation of Venom and Carnage...say, Cletus Kasidy's backstory as a sadistic serial killer, Venom's black monster look, some revised genetics-related origin. Realistically, neither one of those characters would serve as a "main" villain, I think...but what if they were both employed (or being used) by Harry Osborn as a means to soften Peter up, mentally and physically, for the inevitable end-of-film showdown? THAT set-up I could buy. And it would be the logical end of Raimi's (first?) trilogy.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 5:26 p.m. CST

    The Ant-Man Movie

    by Flem_Snopes

    Why hasn't it been made?

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 5:29 p.m. CST

    ImageWorks Says...

    by Leonides

    This gonna sound totally lame, but... I have a buddy that works at ImageWorks. It's Sandman and Venom, with Church and Grace, respectively. No, I don't know why Raimi is veering away from the established venom tale, but he's probably aiming for a "see what Spider-man COULD have become" sort of deal.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 5:34 p.m. CST

    Gwen Stefani is built like a boy, and Black cat is supposed to b


    Venom is too big a character with too much backstory to cram into one film with any success. Avi Arad like a jackass has allowed half a dozen companies to buy liscensing rights to the Marvel characters, so the chances of ever seeing a Secret Wars film are nhil. I'm sick of them changing storylines to suit the studios short sightedness. If they do Venom, they damned well better do it right, and I just don't think they have the patience or imagination to make it work. (Not Raimi mind you, but the studios, and Avi). This is one of the few Marvel franchises that even vaguely resembles the source material. Punisher, Daredevil, and Fantastic Four, aren't as bad as many fanboys paint them to be, but the biggest problem with all of these characters going to different studios is that the film version of the Marvel universe is anything but cohesive. It doesn't feel like any of these characters inhabit the same world, and you miss out on cool crossover possibilities, or major arc storylines that are neccessary to properly introduce characters like Venom, or the symbiote costume. and as for Black Cat, Eliza Dusku all the way. Dye that hair white, and tell me you don't see Felicia.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 5:38 p.m. CST

    kirsten dunst looks like an ugly british chick

    by fried samurai

    Seriously ever time she speaks I expect her to have a heavy british accent.The chick is busted big time.Mind you I love me some hot british women.I must have over 1000 Katie Price pictures when she was hot that I view on a regular basis...peace

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 5:47 p.m. CST

    You guys are all f***ing idiots!

    by thehitchhiker42

    gibe also jibe ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jb) v. gibed, also jibed gib

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 5:52 p.m. CST

    You're jibin' me, man

    by Flem_Snopes

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 6:08 p.m. CST

    jive is slang

    by fried samurai

    I live in a predominatly black and hispanic neighborhood.Everyone I grew up with has always said jive..peace

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 6:14 p.m. CST

    Topher Grace as Spidey, Ashton Kutchner as DEATHPEZ, and Demi Mo

    by so sorry

    what'chu talkin' bout you JIBE turkey!

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 6:28 p.m. CST

    I got yer Villain, the bad guy from "The Last Dragon". Remember

    by Borgnine JR

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 6:30 p.m. CST

    now i see what you mean anchorite

    by fried samurai

    Jibe not jive as in Quint used the wrong word.Duh.I still think your all a bucha jive ass bitches though..:)

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 6:39 p.m. CST


    by tango fett

    You're goin NOWHERE! Randy Savage should be the villain, wanting revenge on the HUMAN SPIDER. And now to be serious, please don't hurt me but Jessica Alba would've worked better as Black Cat than Sue Storm. Also, I could envision Topher Grace as Electro if he bulked up or something, or if they went with the MTV cartoon version. Gwen Stefani might work also if she can act.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Black Cat And Mary Jane Watson

    by Barron34

    I always thought that Ali Larter would make a good Black Cat after seeing her in that catsuit in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. Also, they are going to need to re-cast Mary Jane and Peter Parker after this film, since Kirsten Dunst and MacGuire are unlikely to stay on. I always thought it would be funny to cast Laura Prepon and Topher Grace in those roles. Laura Prepon is a dead-ringer for Mary Jane Watson, both in appearance and personality (unlike Kirsten Dunst). Toper Grace looks like Peter Parker, and pairing the two TV actors on film would be inexpenseive, and a cool in-joke for fans of That 70s Show. Topher is also starting to become a decent film actor (see his perrformance in In Good Company). Anyway, those are some thoughts.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 6:44 p.m. CST


    by Ribbons

    I don't know if you got the impression that I was dissing you in my post (although being on TalkBack I think makes one paranoid by the nature of the thing), but I was just messing around. You and someone else mentioned something about the Internet corrupting the English language, so I figured I'd write in "L33T" or whatever you'd call that up there as a joke. Didn't mean for you to take it negatively, and hopefully you didn't, but in case you did, here's my explanation.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:29 p.m. CST

    niggling again

    by First

    to all you guys down here in the cheap seats who are arguing about jive vs jibe ... look at post number 32 waaaaay back up at the top of the page ... sheesh

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:33 p.m. CST

    First? or Glitch, Anticlamactic

    by BenFerris

    I can't see there being a villain like that, its gotta be somebody that can really move around and Spidey can have an awsome fight with. Since theres only two villians , I can only imagine, one is more fighty and the other is more talky.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:36 p.m. CST

    Mischa Barton as Janet Van Dyne

    by Flem_Snopes

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8 p.m. CST

    They Need To Get A Young Sidekick For Spiderman

    by PeterAst

    The big appeal with Peter is that he is in high school, and young and innocent. There is a freshness about his experiencing things for the first time at a confusing age. That's why the first one was more successful than the second. We need someone of that high scholl age introduced in the third, to bring back the magic of that film.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:01 p.m. CST


    by The Rumor Mill

    big guy...little guy...venom...carnage...

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:19 p.m. CST

    It's Hammerhead & The Ox

    by jeff891

    Now they just need the guy with the lasso and they have themselves a movie.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:33 p.m. CST

    another experiment gone awry!?

    by 4720

    it could be just me but im sick of seeing the villians in the past two spidey movies be experiments gone wrong. dont get me wrong the movies kicked ass. So if they decide to go with the sand man what are they going to do, it has to be another experiment gone wrong or with chameleon chances are it will be a man experimenting with camoflauge for the military or some shit and decide to use it for evil. but when you think of it most of spidey's villians are hard to adapt to movies. so i guess all we can hope for is not a rehash of the other villians origins and something new.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:35 p.m. CST


    by MondoGundark

    jibe- verb [intrans.] informal be in accord; agree : the verdict does not jibe with the medical evidence. Buy a dictionary and hire a proofreader. You guys make my eyes bleed.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:37 p.m. CST

    Topher Grace

    by MondoGundark

    Topher could definitely pull off a sadistic villian. Have been consistantly impressed with his acting chops, and Thomas Hayden Church is a great choice as well. Chloe Sevigney, on the other hand, I've been less impressed with her acting, but more impressed with her willingness to take chances.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:50 p.m. CST

    Recasting? Forget it.

    by performingmonkey

    I'm not saying no-one else could play Spides and MJ, but you just know that they won't recast and that Raimi is out after this thus the series is dead. I still don't believe the number of people who are clinging onto the idea of 6 movies. Just because the villains are there doesn't mean they have to be in the movies (check Batman and Robin! Ahnold...get to da choppa!). There is potential for a fourth movie but Raimi should end it right here right now and have a successful trilogy that people can't shit on. Have Harry hire the Black Cat to seduce and fuck up Peter, then have Harry kill Mary Jane (something I've predicted for years) and send Spides on a revenge hunt in the black Spidey suit. Peter is about to kill Harry when he has a lame flashback to Uncle Ben's death and doesn't do it. But Harry attacks him forcing Peter to push him over the edge of the building they're on (obviously). Then we find out that Mary Jane is actually alive, somehow (Aunt May saved her), thus having a happy ending. Fuck you all.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:05 p.m. CST

    This was a scoop when I sent Harry the story almost 3 weeks ago.

    by Cletus Van Damme

    What's up with that?

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:13 p.m. CST

    topher grace will be

    by dr.bulber

    after dr.conners takes the lizard syrum, he rejuvinates. do lizards shed their skin?

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:17 p.m. CST



  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:25 p.m. CST

    I'd like to see...

    by John-Locke

    Spidey & Iceman make a sandwich with Fire Star as the filling. Amazing Friends indeed.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:36 p.m. CST

    I thought Haden Church was playing Sandwich Man

    by BurlIvesLeftNut

    "I'm full of mustard, brother!"

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 9:49 p.m. CST



  • Aug. 18, 2005, 10:18 p.m. CST

    Symbiote Spidey VS. Sinister Six bank robbing club

    by KongMonkey

    sounds ridiculous at first, but thats how I'd do it. Spidey saves Mary Janes ex-fiance from a crashed shuttle after a space mission, and in the process merges with the hitchhiking symbiote. Meanwhile, a very pissed off astronaut Jamison uses a certain moon rock to become a certain man-Wolf, and hooks up with Sandman(played by TOPHER GRACE), Electro, Vulture, Mysterio, and Rhyno. Who individually aren't very character driven or good one-on-one enemies for spidey. But combined can be a formidable enemy. They also have various powers and traits that can work together to make major heist. Meanwhile, as Spidey battles these six baddies, he deals with the inner struggle of the symboite, maybe even growing angry at one point and choking MJ or some shit like that. Spidey shows his dark side when he starts to kill some of his smaller villians, then moves on to the six biggies. Thomas hayden Church is actually Eddie Brock, following the whole thing, and in the end after Spideys resolved everything and squirmed his way out of the symbiotic suit, you know what happens with Eddie. Along the way Harry's progression into the Hobgoblin is shown. In Spidey 4, Spidey takes on a choice of 3 villians. Scorpion, who has been hired by a very angry J.Jonah Jamison after Spidey kills his Were-son. Hobgolin....or Venom. Personally, for the eye candy and obvious polar opposite, I'd much rather see venom. They'll probably save Harry/Hobgoblin as the FINAL villian in Spidey 5, sort of completing the whole circle. Anyway, thats my thoughts...if they mean a damn to anybody.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 10:38 p.m. CST

    Elisha Cuthbert for Black Cat

    by OhioBobcat 'Nuff said.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 12:31 a.m. CST

    Eliza Dushku for Black Cat rocks my world

    by Origami

    Church is a lock for sandman, never heard anything else. Topher would make a good chameleon. there should be link for Dushku as black cat. EXCELSIOR.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 1:07 a.m. CST

    Forever DeathPez

    by docfalken

    That was the theme at my high school prom.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 1:23 a.m. CST

    Okay, so the Spider-Man movies correlate to the Superman movies,

    by themikejonas

    So we should expect an announcement about Chris Tucker as a two-bit credit union worker/genius hired by Osborn to develop a spider whose bite makes Spidey go all overzealous and nuts, straightening out the Leaning Tower of Pisa and all that.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 3:46 a.m. CST

    Church is perfect for VENOM!

    by Tommy West

    he tooo old dammit, hes sandman

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 4:03 a.m. CST

    spidey 3

    by pauljames33

    correct me if i'm wrong but i've heard there is only going to be 3 spidey movies, at least with sam that is.spidey 3 will wrap up the story arcs of pete, mj and harry.pretty sure that was on the dvds, but again i may be wrong.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 4:07 a.m. CST


    by pauljames33

    doc connors was in spidey 2, maybe it was just a cameo or something, but could the lizard man thing pan out i wonder?

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 4:23 a.m. CST

    I still think it is Chameleon and Sandman

    by andrew coleman

    We find out Chameleon is actually someone in Harry's company, who keeps messing with him so he will become the Goblin. Church will play Sandman, who we visually look great and will having amazing fight scenes. While SP deals with Sandman Chameleon fucks everything up with MJ and slowly makes Harry crazy. At some point Hobgoblin appears, the audience thinks this is Harry but later we find out it is Topher Grace who is the Chameleon. So Spidey beats up Harry blaming him for everything, but later when the Hobgoblin has him cornered, Harry comes to the rescue. Then Spider-man beats Sandman, happy ending!!! That is only a guess. But I do think they are setting up Harry to be actually a good guy who steps out of darkness to help a friend instead of making him a major villian.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 7:01 a.m. CST

    Grace is probably just a love rival for Pete,therefore a 'vi

    by The True Priapic

    I'm guessing Harry intends to first break up Peter and Mary Jane before kicking the webheads ass.You know,the old bad guy thing-break them first,crush all their hopes and then make them beg for their death.I don't buy the Venom thing,it's too much even if they go with the 'alternate Parker' gig(this is what coulda happened,had Pete been selfish etc.).I'm fairly sure it'll be a wedding at the end or at least a proposal.I'd gues fairly squarely on Sandy and yet a possible Hobgob buildup.A black suit made by Mary Jane would be fun if it keeps ripping and Parker goes back to the original suit for the finale.Persoanlly I have a horrible feeling that,as the studio head wants this to end on a trilogy(bet it fuckin' aint,though)that they'll try to fil it with as much stuff and characters as possible.And dera,god...give it up with clone stuff.Those rags gave me cramps.You really think they'll make Topher a clone in homage to those fucking embarrassments of Spidey history.I always like Liz from the comics,reminded me of the type of girl who'd been blowjobbing her way through school and was sick of banging headfucks like Flash and was ready for a 'meaningful' relationship with a reliable guy like Pete.Betty Brant was an abuse case waiting to happen.Mary Jane was hot,but didn't she go through half of New York before Pete.Christ,I seem to remember Norman Osborn eyeing her up when she danced at a gogo club before he 'turned' and offed Gwen.Jesus,Gwen was a cutie but not a fucking brain cell in her body.An absolute fucking fucktard.Seem to remember Black Cats relationship with Spidey was just pounding and pounding.Who else?Liz.Betty.Gwen.Mary-Jane.I still fancy the chick who plays Betty in the films...possibly..possibly..more than Dopey Dunst.Although Dunsty would be a little buckin' bronco that needs a good breakin' in,reinin' in and ridin'.YYYEEEEHHHHaaaaaaa!!

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 7:04 a.m. CST

    It is Chameleon & Sandman

    by fiester

    ...Green Goblin II will be set up for the next film along with Kraven, who will have a connection with The Chameleon--though Kraven, The Hunter, will be contracted to catch The Lizard, but will seek Spidey-vengence as well. The only question I have is when and if we will see The Black Cat.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 8:20 a.m. CST

    In the last scene of Spidey 2...

    by Shermdawg

    did anyone notice the ominous change in music when MJ had her close up? Maybe that wasn't MJ at all. What if...What if that was The Chameleon hired by Harry to mindfuck 'ol Pete. The only question did he kiss Grace or Church? Also What if Peter went on Spring Break and was wearing sunglasses and was laughing at the suckers debating who he was gonna fight next, and used his index and pinky fingers to push glasses back against face, and while doing this he accidently shoots webbing down his throat and died. Hmmm...What if indeed.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 9:12 a.m. CST

    The Sandman

    by Malx

    is a very cool character in the old spidey comics. Blue collar, always down on his luck, but constantly getting sucked into plots by his more aggressive buddies. I think Venom is a great character but most of his powers would desperately require the (over)use of CGI and probably end up looking particularly cartoony (even in comparison to that in Spidey 1 and 2, which wasn't anything to write home about).

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 10:14 a.m. CST

    Chloe Sevigny campaigning is a joke...she's damn fugly

    by Monkey_King

    and no way as hot(or busty) as the comic character of Black Cat. This rumor probably got started due to the resemblance of a recent Black Cat action figure that had a very shitty sculpting job and came out looking like Chloe with great hooters in a tight black outfit. Chloe, go home and hang your head from the embarassment of 'Brown Bunny.'

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 10:26 a.m. CST

    by silverdog

    Scarlett Johansson and rachel mc Adams for M.J. dunst is cute but...

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 10:30 a.m. CST

    Church & Grace Villans

    by dee_hunter316

    I feel that Thomas Hayden Church will play photographer Eddie Brock (AKA: Venom) & Topher Grace will play Cletus Kasady (AKA: Carnage). I don't think that he will become Carnage until the next film, though.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 10:56 a.m. CST

    Raimi has said: No Venom, No Carnage.

    by fiester

    Not while he is still directing the Spidey flicks. Raimi is Old School and thinks those two characters are shite (and he's correct). You will probably see them at some point, but not until the franchise goes belly-up into the Superman IV territory, with all new B-list actors in the leads and someone like McG directing.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 10:57 a.m. CST

    Topher Grace was brought in...

    by Pie_Man_Returns

    I kind know someone REALLY in the know and they said that Topher was first brought in to...REPLACE TOBEY. If you guys don't remember, Tobey freaked the fuck out because he was fat, they hired Grace and he had NO DEFINED ROLE. That's why there is this mysterious air around his hiring. They're making it up as they go along. They're not even sure whatthe fuck they want him to be.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 11:30 a.m. CST

    Maybe we've got it all wrong.

    by Darksider

    Maybe it's Mysterio. He was in the movie business before becoming a criminal. Or maybe the Sandman could just look like someone else when he reforms? There has to be an obvious reason for Raimi to be using Church and Grace and we just haven't figured it out yet. There's also Dr. Conners who has been part of both pictures who we didn't get to see as the Lizard. As far as Venom, Carnage, or The Jackyl, Raimi is an old school Spidey fan and I think he will go down the list of oldies first before using the more modern stuff. Sure, a new director or newer Spidey fan would jump at Venom, but not Raimi.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 11:41 a.m. CST

    Black Cat doesn't need big tits...

    by The True Priapic

    ..just fuckability.Chloe has that.Someone with big tits being an athletic trapeze atriste extraordinaire is fo rthe comics,dudes.Carnage?Who the fuck is carnage?Like I said I gave up just after/during the clone fuckup.I guess Carnage is the red Venom.Just more violent characters with no discenible reason for their acts apart from 'they're psychos'.Jesus,maybe the Tinkerer and Stegron weren't so bad.Chameleon is not going to be in this.That's a shit idea.A few weeks ago the gossip was Man-Wolf.Give me a fucking break.It'll be Sandy and Osborn plotting with a romantic 'threat' to Parker/Watson status quo.And another fucking lame rock ballad,no doubt.Stegron,in case anyone couldn't tell by his appearance,called himseld The Dinosaur Man!!And I want a Spidermobile as well.Damn,Pete must'vwe sold a lotta photos that week!!!!Although the idea of Electro could work,but if you think about what a fucking duff character he is.You gotta think 'motivation' with the bad guys in this movie.Jeez...hang on...Harry married Liz,right?Ooh,that slut got her hands on a dweeb after all.No wonder he went mad,up all night wondering which of her many thousands of partners gave him the itches."That fucking kid looks nothing like me,Liz!" , "Harry..I swear..he's yours.Of course he's yours.He's your son!" , "He's BLACK,Liz!BLACK!" , "Harry,you're just being paranoid like your father!" , "My Father!My Fath...You're screwing with my head,Liz....look at 'im...just lookat'im!!He's BLACK!!"

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 11:45 a.m. CST


    by Darksider

    Modern as in late 80's, I think 89, and one of the last major returning Spidey villains made. As opposed to the original rogues like the Sinister Six that have been around more or less since 1963. So yeah, he is more modern. Spider-man has about 20+ years of great stuff before that lame ass, did nothing, spawned multiple copies character even came about.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 11:48 a.m. CST

    The Ox

    by Flem_Snopes

    I forgot about him and the Enforcers. So who do you cast for Fancy Dan, the little guy with the martial arts moves who always wore a suit and a stylish fedora that never left his head?

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 11:52 a.m. CST

    I went fishing for piranhas and used my Topher bait (toe for bai

    by trevorfactor

    sorry I couldn't resist

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 11:53 a.m. CST

    Also, who says that Church and Grace are both villains at the sa

    by Darksider

    One could be introduced now as say, Eddie Brock, and not be used until Spidey 4? Brock was first mentioned in 1, Conners was mentioned in 1, seen in 2 without being the Lizard. Harry has been in 1 and 2 and has been a villain yet and we know he becomes one in the books. Also John Jameson aka Man-Wolf was used in 3 without being a villain as well. The biggest tell of all is that Raimi has went against the two villain or more standard of comic films and has kept only one main villain per movie. The only way I see that changing is if it's his last movie or the story calls for two of the villains to be related somehow.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 11:54 a.m. CST

    The Enforcers were crap.What about THE LIVING BRAIN!!

    by The True Priapic

    I'm trying to remember it's purpose...hmm...What about Tarantula!!By day...just an average Taco day sometimes and night sometimes....The Tarantula..the most feared moustached Mexican bandito who ever got his ass handed to him by wasn't his Chilisauce that gave him a sore ass,it was the hiding Spidey handed him.....

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 12:06 p.m. CST

    brokke me finhgers and have tto use my topher typingg

    by trevorfactor

    the hits just keep on coming tgif

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 12:19 p.m. CST

    ok seriously now

    by trevorfactor

    who the hell hired Foreman as a spidey villian and if your gonna do that might as well bring Donna & Jackie over to beat the hell out of Dunst also Fez might make a good taratula "i said good day"

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 12:19 p.m. CST

    oops tarantula

    by trevorfactor

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 12:29 p.m. CST

    "Spider sense...tingling...."

    by The True Priapic

    "..that street vendor...with the super hot chili sauce..something about him..I know him from somewhere.Oh,man!Look at the time..I'll be late for Aunt May's colonic if I don't run.Hey!Isn't that Harry over there?What's he doing aiming that rifle at me?"

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 12:46 p.m. CST

    Topher Grace is skinny - he should be The Mindworm

    by jim

    and cast The Rock as Kraven the Hunter. (I'm not serious about the first because the Mindworm is lame, but am serious about the Rock).

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 12:48 p.m. CST

    "Black Cat doesn't need big tits.....just fuckability.Chloe

    by Cartagia

    Are you kidding me? That anorexic looking buck toothed skank wanna be? And it's not just fuckability that BC needs it's a sense of sensuality and mystery, and I never think that when looking at Chloe. usually its more like "Oh jesus! What the hell is that?"

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 12:59 p.m. CST

    Sandman and hydroman

    by leolo

    There's even an old comic in which both merge to became a really big menace.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 12:59 p.m. CST

    It's more of's possible that any of us could FU

    by The True Priapic

    ..Jeez,she went out with Jarvis Cocker!!!Felicia one...I don't buy the Faith bit..she's too small...Felicia,if done to the book would look like fucking Jenna Jameson!!I don't fucking know.Needs to be someone fucking dirty...Traci Lords????

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 1:57 p.m. CST

    Shouldn't Peter Dinklage play the mindworm, (or Doctor Psych

    by cookylamoo

    Or did the age of evil dwarf villains end with Michael Dunn?

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Avi Arad as "The Producer!"

    by The True Priapic

    "Time's up Spider Man!" , "Dear Lord,how can I ever beat The Producer?He's beaten The FF,The Hulk and DD!How can I ever win?" Stay tuned,True Believers........

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 3:03 p.m. CST

    "But,wit!I recognise his voice.He's...The Toymaster!!"

    by The True Priapic

    "His unshaven face is shredding my outfit!Ahh!Wait!I know...that cinema below is playing Batman Begins!If I can somehow lure him inside his power will fade!Webs do your stuff!"

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 3:13 p.m. CST

    Remember the bitching that went about before they cast Doc Ock

    by KongMonkey

    OH SAM NEIL SHOULD PLAY HIM! NO SO AND SO SHOULD PLAY HIM. WHAT! WHO THE FUCK IS ALFRED MOLINA! I can see Sam Raimi laughing his ass off at everyone here. If they use Venom for 4, he ain't gonna be the sarcastic pain in the ass that the comics made him. He's gonna be one evil motherfucker. No sarcasm, no cheesy one liners. Just a big slimy jock(Church) with an attitude of "look at me funny and I'll cut your dick off" Hell he may end up killing Aunt Mae or some shit, leading to one hell of a fight between Spidey and him. Didn't I read somewhere that Topher Grace dyed his hair blonde or some shit. Thats a clear sign of Sandman, even though Church would be great as both Sandman or Venom.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 3:24 p.m. CST

    carnage and venom

    by M.Rubell

    i think topher would be a cool carnage and i think he can get the voice down

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 3:55 p.m. CST

    Eddie Brock should be played by....

    by Pete_Da_Geek

    Henry Rollins...I dunno, maybe he's too old but he really screams the Brock of McFarlane's run on Spidey. I hope to god they don't go with the Ultimate version...they can be crafty and invent a new way for the suit to come in the film. I mean, if they got Black Cat AND Venom and the whole affair thing with the Cat...well the color schemes would go so well if they intertwined the two (Spidey being naughty, the costum similarities, etc). I read somewhere they were filming two films at once for sequels...this true?

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 4:07 p.m. CST

    Elisha Cuthbert for Black Cat!!!!!

    by OhioBobcat Again I say she is purr-fect. (Pardon the pun.)

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 5 p.m. CST


    by lopan

    i say adrian zmed for "The roach," or peter scolari for "mr. robot face 5000." who gives a fuck.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 5:36 p.m. CST

    let's count the villian refrences

    by The Rumor Mill

    1-Eddie Brock(Venom) (mentioned but nothing pregressive as of yet) 2-John Jameson (Manwolf) 3-Curt Connors (The Lizard) 4-Harry Osbourne (Green Goblin 2) 5-Thomas Hayden Church (unknown) 6-Topher Grace (unknown)...1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6...coincidence?

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 8:10 p.m. CST

    Elisha Cuthbert for Jiminy Cricket

    by L. Duderino

    Curves, people!

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 8:22 p.m. CST


    by L. Duderino

    Could you do a better job than Chloe on the Brown Bunny? She ain't the prettiest, but she can suck a golfball through a garden-hose, so show some respect, punk!

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 9:33 p.m. CST

    All I need out of Spidey 3 . . .

    by Nice Marmot

    . . . is another crucial scene where Pete eats cake in silence with the landlord's daughter. Of course they could get crazy & switch to freshly baked muffins, pie, brownies, the sky's the limit. OH, and up the hiLARious trying-to-get-the-brooms-back-in-the-closet scene to, lets say five minutes. It's the only way to top such an epic film and get me a-rollin' on the floor in stitches again.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 9:34 p.m. CST

    Venom can go suck my fucking ballbag, to the ultimate power migh

    by axelfoley

    enough with this fucking Venom fetish please. Get over this obsession with Eddie Brock and his penchant for hatred against Spidey because he got the douchebag fired. Black suit Spidey in part 3? Yeah, that'll work--why not get Adrian Brody to play Jack O'Lantern, and, and Deborah Harry can be Silver Sable. They both have attractively long grey hair but damn do they still have spunk. While we're at it, The Rose should be played by James Spader. The world of '80s Spidey on the big screen, that's the ticket. Hell, all we need to top it all off is an ad for Bonkers candy and a Captain O merchandise promotion and we'll truly see heaven.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 9:49 p.m. CST

    Cuthbert as Black Cat makes me weep tears of joy

    by Tall_Boy

    Stop production, Spidey 3 Co. Page 1 rewrite and recast. Start now.

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 11:44 p.m. CST


    by Jubba

    ...if done properly could be a way to get a Spiderman/Peter Parker look alike to work, i.e. Tohper

  • Aug. 19, 2005, 11:57 p.m. CST

    topher's new look

    by Jubba

    what do people think about the blond hair etc? it was posted here:,19884,1057077_6,00.html

  • Aug. 20, 2005, 12:09 a.m. CST

    Howie Long as Eddie Brock

    by Cletus Van Damme


  • Aug. 20, 2005, 12:10 a.m. CST

    Joshua Jackson looks more like Tobey Maguire than Topher, I thin

    by Cletus Van Damme

  • Aug. 20, 2005, 2:47 a.m. CST

    This Series Needs A Young Fresh Face

    by PeterAst

    The big problem is that the characters are starting to age. We need that wide eyed innocence from the first film. Both Harry and Peter have changed into the men they will become. We need that youthful confusion and angst desperately in the third film.

  • Aug. 20, 2005, 3:57 a.m. CST

    The Elektro/Sandman makes sens on that basis alone:

    by chien_sale

    The first two movies so far have been based on James Cameron scripts/treatments. The only thing that hasn`t been used yet of what`s left of anything than Jim wrote is the presence of Sandman and Elektro as this one-two-punch. But if I remember correctly Elektro was someone who was a former small-time hoodlum who had an accident and got powers and used it to make himself a big shot criminal kingpin. And Sandman is his henchman. Elektro`s goal during the whole thing is to have Spidey join him. I could see the gay subtext being played there. Only problem is I don`t see Topher leading Church, so the script could be changed into more of a partnership.

  • Aug. 20, 2005, 8:56 a.m. CST

    I like the version by LatinPoetofDoom

    by mwrisner

    Read it. It would play very well on screen and jive with the rumors. It would also avoid the campy multiple villains from the old Batman franchise that went over so horribly.

  • Aug. 20, 2005, 10:02 a.m. CST

    If Elektro's in it, I'd love Raimi to have the balls to

    by Nice Marmot

    I'm starting to like the multiple villain idea. IF they did it right & didn't waste too much time w/ their origins. Just have Harry, become the Hobgoblin instead of the Green Goblin and have him bust people out of the Vault. Spidey & the villains will already know each other and the villains will hate his guts for already beating them & getting them locked up.

  • Aug. 20, 2005, 10:05 a.m. CST

    And the comment on Elektro's costume was a joke.

    by Nice Marmot

    If the costumes of Green Goblin & Dr.Octopus aren't done right you know they won't do Elektro's right. Not that I'm complaining. Just amuzed, thinking of that funky yellow bolt-mask.

  • Aug. 20, 2005, 12:36 p.m. CST

    Dear lord...

    by Kamikaze_Jones

    I worry for this franchise once Raimi bails. This is the only Marvel property, in my opinion, that Avi Arad hasn't ass fucked into dull popcorn fare where once art existed (with the possible exception of X-Men, pending X3). The difference, I suppose, is that that cockbag can push somebody like Tim Story or whoever made Punisher, Daredevil, etc. around because they're just lucky to have that job. Arad knows that Spidey's the Raimi show now, and that Sam doesn't need them half as much as they need him in a very big way. Far as villain speculation, I'd fancy a Venom/Sandman plotline, with a climactic battle with Harry as the Goblin. Much as I love Carnage (who is the most viscerally frightening character in mainstream comics, hands down), putting him and Venom in the same film would be overkill of the same powers, and putting him in a later installment would be too much of the same, unless he was a secondary villain to a bigger menace. I hope that they either keep Raimi or let this be the end, unless they can pull their shit together and get a real director to come work on the next ones.

  • Aug. 20, 2005, 10:35 p.m. CST


    by ALUCINOR11

    Does anyone read my posts? I said much earlier that Topher would be a "villian" because he tries to steal Mary Jane from Peter. How many people will post this without reading what came before arggg IDIOTS.

  • Aug. 21, 2005, 4:59 a.m. CST

    I want to see them...

    by lead_sharp

    Make Electro's costume look good...

  • Aug. 21, 2005, 7:23 a.m. CST

    Electro's suit

    by Shermdawg

    He'll probably looks like the new version, pure electricity. Now I kinda hate that look, because its a bit too similar to Iceman's, but since Bobby hasn't and probably won't look like that in the flicks, I think this would be the way to go. Personally though, I think The Shocker would look better revamped on the big screen. Now before I go, i wanna leave with a couple of my casting picks, because I DON'T wanna post again on this thread. In regards to the guy that mentioned casting the wrestler Rhyno as Rhino. I'm sure you were makin a joke, even if you weren't Rhyno's waaaaay too short for the role.( Rhyno if you read this, I'm sorry, don't hurt me :) ) I'd go with The Big Show instead, someone that looks the part, and lets face it, Rhinos not gonna be a main villian, so acting skills won't be a problem.( Big Show if you read this, please don't hurt me :) ) And on the subject of Venom if he's ever introduced, Triple H all the way. He is PERFECT for the role. He looks like Brock,he has the voice too. Can't ya just imagine him uttering "We are Venom." ? I can. ( Triple H if you read this how about gettin me a job. :) )

  • Aug. 21, 2005, 8:40 a.m. CST


    by Anna Valerious

    Come on, tell me that doesn't make perfect sense. I know he's in his 40's, but he does look like he can kick serious ass. BTW, I hope Electro doesn't look like a douchebag like he does in the comics. I like the conceptual one that appeared in ToyFare a few years back.

  • Aug. 21, 2005, 9:43 a.m. CST

    by misnomer

    Sounds like this is really shaping up, although I doubt very much if venom will appear in any of the raimi flicks. The story arc of Camerons script using electro and sandman worked really well. (electro having to resucitate his girlfriend's heart after sex was a great idea) but the thing is, I think the whole sandman thing is visually something weve seen a million times before (constantine, the mummy) so having two villans this time around seems like the best way to go. As for the black cloth, gotta be black cat. Sandman? Electro? Man-Wolf? Lizard? Green Goblin 2? ....I think Raimis got a real treat in store, let's just hope he pulls it off. : )

  • Aug. 21, 2005, 12:43 p.m. CST

    Both Spiderman 1 & 2 sucked and I'll tell ya why!

    by Borgnine JR

    It cuz they didn't cast Frankie Muniz. Only he is rightfully Peter Parker. You want fresh and wide eyed?, well then Muiz is your man. Plus, he touched Hillary Duff's boob.

  • Aug. 21, 2005, 2:23 p.m. CST

    carnage perhaps....

    by diomedes2000

    rumors of Topher Grace in a symbiotic suit? i honestly do not see him as Venom..but he could pull off a deranged psychopath. Carnage perhaps? But one could not make a movie with Carnage in it without first introducing Venom. Maybe...just maybe, Church is starring as Venom and Grace as Carnage. Wouldn't that be something....

  • Aug. 21, 2005, 3:06 p.m. CST


    by Kortex

    First of all Thoma Church does look like Sandman!, also if raimi sticks to the comic, Sandman accually get killed with a poisonous bite from Venom! <- Thats a hint ;)

  • Aug. 21, 2005, 4:08 p.m. CST

    Topher Grace IS Stiltman!!

    by Borgnine JR

  • Aug. 21, 2005, 5:38 p.m. CST

    Church as The Owl. Topher as Hammerhead. Rachel Evan Woods as Bl

    by Big Bad Clone

  • Aug. 21, 2005, 7:16 p.m. CST

    Thanks a lot Beer Baron, I thought I was done with this topic.

    by Shermdawg

    Frankie Muniz? Frankie Muniz??? Have you heard the kid talk lately? He sounds like gawd damned Kermit The Frog. And by the way, doesn&#39;t he remind you of the elf dude in Legend?

  • Aug. 21, 2005, 11:05 p.m. CST

    i just used to read spidey and it seems....

    by mogulus

    ... that if you look at the rumors, does it not look, at this point, like nay more than smoke and mirrors? maybe Sam and the boys are leaking these rumors purposely in order to keep the true villain a secret. if so, smoke and mirrors would be the domain of MYSTERIO... my personal favorite villain. it would allow lots of cool imagery. ( the bubble helmet could look way cool if done right. )

  • Aug. 22, 2005, 1:01 p.m. CST

    Topher Grace As Electro

    by MaFukinHaloKilla

    why can&#39;t grace play the supercharged electro Raimi said that he was perfect for the "developed" role the had cast him for and everyone underestimates the power that electro can have in a real life spidery movie he could also play a romantic bridge between peter and mj in everyday life

  • Aug. 22, 2005, 2:04 p.m. CST

    Topher Grace as...

    by tango fett

    Howard the Duck?...Oh it was worth a try. And where the hell is my Ka-Zar movie? Make mine Marvel, bitches.

  • Aug. 22, 2005, 2:06 p.m. CST

    OT sort of...

    by tango fett

    In Fantastic 4 Reloaded (because the 2 doesn&#39;t work with the title), Stan Lee IS Galactus! BEHOLD THE RESEMBLANCE!

  • Aug. 22, 2005, 3:33 p.m. CST


    by MaFukinHaloKilla

    but does anyone believe their is some real truth to the Venom rumors i meen he would be a tough villain to pull off in one movie with as many stories as spider man has to deal with like mj aunt may harry and church for whatever he will be

  • Aug. 22, 2005, 4:28 p.m. CST

    Villain after villain just plain sucks. Its time for a change. I

    by Reelheed

    a cross-over movie. The only thing that strays from the "new villain - villain beaten" formula is when a cross-over leads two heroes to fight. I really couldn&#39;t care who the second hero is - villains bore me senseless.

  • Aug. 23, 2005, 10:56 a.m. CST

    Introducing Manwolf

    by Midwestmaniac

    John Jameson was introduced in the last movie (astronaut,son of JJ Jameson)his bride (Mary Jane) left him at the alter (for spiderman/parker no less)-- enuff to piss anyone off especially someone who has suffered mutation by lunar radiation etc... I remember the villian from the comics and it would appear that the ground work has been laid in the last episode.

  • Sept. 23, 2009, 1:21 a.m. CST

    Look at how right I was!

    by iamnicksaicnsn

    But I was dismissed as random rumors... AHAHAHAHAH. And look how crappy it turned out. What a travesty, I hope Sam Raimi learns for the next one (two?)