Aug. 16, 2005, 2:40 a.m. CST
1: Acid on scrotum. 2-5: Refer to 1.
Aug. 16, 2005, 2:44 a.m. CST
Flight 93 RIP.
Aug. 16, 2005, 2:57 a.m. CST
Dont expect Greemgrass' shaky camera to explain anything.
Aug. 16, 2005, 2:59 a.m. CST
What was the last watchable movie he made, 'Wall Street'? Please don't utter the word "Nixon" either, thanks.
Aug. 16, 2005, 3 a.m. CST
I am not excited by either of these projects. It's money wasted to not have a serious film about 9/11, not something fraught with overtones about a Gay hero or some third rate JAP Tart like Maggie Gyllenhaal. A good 9/11 with extraordinary detail and all the stuff the TV world has hidden: bodies splatting, people surviving against inhuman odds and the world of Osama Bin Laden training, explaining and executing people. That movie done right can make 1 billion dollars worldwide. Oliver Stone probably doesn't have the skillsets and presence of mind to make a movie like JFK again. Paul Greengrass made a good Bourne film, but the subject matter he chose alone isn't enough to make me respect ambition or the best types of stories to tell when considering a 9/11 film.
Aug. 16, 2005, 3:01 a.m. CST
A pair of F16s blowing the plane out of the sky.
Aug. 16, 2005, 3:03 a.m. CST
As the government decide whether to come clean with the truth, or make up some heroic passenger story. heroic passenger story! they died heroes! we didnt nuke them out the sky. Everybody wins!
Aug. 16, 2005, 3:05 a.m. CST
Ah, that's not quite a departure in form for the director of The Bourne Supremacy, is it? That flick's shaky-cam and editing were extremely distracting and didn't serve the story at all. I can only imagine what the action is going to be like in the confines of Flight 93. Look like I'll be missing this one. It could be worse, though: imagine the fight between Rorschach, Nite Owl, and You-Know-Who done Bourne Supremacy style, nothing but blurred torsos with only sound effects to indicate landed blows. Ugh!
Aug. 16, 2005, 3:18 a.m. CST
by andrew coleman
If the goverment were going to nuke something it would be the whales. "Gotta nuke something". I knew this story would be made into a movie, I figured FX was gonna get it's hands on it but guess not. Personally I'm going to see Snake's On a Plane instead of this. The only reason being I know how this one will end, but SOAP could possibly have Sam Jackson being eaten by a snake. He did get eaten by a shark in Deep Blue Sea so I think anything can happen.
Aug. 16, 2005, 3:28 a.m. CST
No matter where you stand on the War on Terror, Bush, Al Qaida, Blair, Neocons, Clinton, etc., the bottom line is that people died awful deaths that day, and turning that into a profit 4 years after the fact just doesn't feel to good morally. Then again, despite what many here at AICN say, Hollywood IS motivated by profit and profit alone, NOT art for art's sake.
Aug. 16, 2005, 3:30 a.m. CST
i know ... how unpatriotic
Aug. 16, 2005, 3:36 a.m. CST
Aug. 16, 2005, 3:44 a.m. CST
by Some Dude
...Sam Jackson has to team up with snakes to defeat terrorists while avoiding getting nuked by secret conspirators.
Aug. 16, 2005, 4:04 a.m. CST
but then I remembered Bush and his posse have been cashing in on September 11th since September 12th 2001....................to be honest, I much prefer these films to be in the hands of directors like Stone and Greengrass, but really, if Greengrass is just going some action movie/human spirit drama route then he's wasting a great oppurtunity to explore some of the questions our media doesn't regarding 9/11
Aug. 16, 2005, 4:20 a.m. CST
Stone is the Ron Howard of auteurs. Big, dumb, thoughtless and bad. A "serious" film on 9/11 by Oliver Stone? Ohhhhhh, I'm SO THERE.
Aug. 16, 2005, 4:24 a.m. CST
With Steven Seagal in hot air balloons.
Aug. 16, 2005, 4:25 a.m. CST
by Ill Clinton
There were two well known moments of heroism that came out of 9/11, those that rushed into the twin towers to attempt rescues, and those who thwarted the terrorists on the 4th plane. To suggest that this movie needs to be anything more than a story of heroism is symptomatic of the divide in America. If there was a ever a time to rally around the flag and take pride collectively as Americans, this incident was it. This story has nothing to do with intelligence failures, subsequent events, or being a Democrat or Republican. America was attacked, and this is the only place where Americans fought back successfully during that time period. For a brief time, we were united. Sadly that time was short lived. This movie done well, could remind us again that we were ALL under attack, and the terrorists were not making distinctions about whether they killed liberals or conservatives. Just as long as they were Americans.
Aug. 16, 2005, 4:33 a.m. CST
...how long it would take before conspiracy nutjobs began claiming that Flight 93 was shot down. My favorite 9-11 conspiracy theory though, is the one put forth by that French author who claims that the planes that hit the towers weren't in fact planes, but some sort of gigantic cruise missiles disguised as planes and launched by the American government. Naturally, the book was a bestseller.
Aug. 16, 2005, 5:35 a.m. CST
...that the families of the victims of september the 11th might see some of the profits from these movies? It'd certainly take some of the bitter taste out of my mouth - I mean I'm sure the filmmakers have the best of intentions, but do the studios look beyond the profit generated by controversy?
Aug. 16, 2005, 5:38 a.m. CST
I am sure my friend that was on the 2nd plane that day was on a freaking missile. You know...they never found one single piece of him. Just Gone. That French author is on crack! Ill Clinton you are right. Thanks for your post.
Aug. 16, 2005, 5:44 a.m. CST
Oh, and to the poster "all," from each and every American, you can burn in hell.
Aug. 16, 2005, 5:49 a.m. CST
I'm not too gullible. Now where did I leave my tin foil hat?
Aug. 16, 2005, 5:57 a.m. CST
Before this TB is over, I guarantee that talkbacker GingerTwit will be claiming those very things as absolute truth, while simultaneously calling everyone else gullible, because he's "been on the internet for nine years", by Jove, and therefore nobody pulls the wool over HIS eyes.
Aug. 16, 2005, 7:16 a.m. CST
Respect. . . BOOYAKASHA!!!
Aug. 16, 2005, 7:30 a.m. CST
We have become far too cynical about an event that has shaped our worldview and more importantly the recognition that our national identity, moreso than our respective divisions is what mattered. I guess it could be argued that patriotism on 9/11 was something of a foregone conclusion. I argued way early, in `01 that the celebration of "unity" was far too utopian and premature, but that never meant I was too cynical to appreciate it. Whether that is the boon or bane of political factions I leave for another thread, but the sick motivation for profiting on it in a film is a little much, especially coming from the likes of Stone (I'm on the fence on Greengrass though.).__________________________I suppose the only remotely positive thing I can draw from this is Hollywood MIGHT want to have a frank look at this event, rather than pontificating around it, as it has been for the better part of four years now.
Aug. 16, 2005, 7:41 a.m. CST
Leave it to stupid Americans to destroy one of the only true heroic stories to come out of recent history. It's CLEAR from the recorded conversations what happened on Flight 93. Those people had more balls than we will ever have. Anyone who suggests otherwise is just too willing to let political opinion override the FACTS.
Aug. 16, 2005, 8:09 a.m. CST
the whole point of what they did and why it was so brave was that they were just like YOU and ME so to say they have more balls then us is missing the point entirely. For all intents and purposes they are YOU and ME.
Aug. 16, 2005, 8:22 a.m. CST
Sounds like the gung ho, jingoistic crap that the government would make up for the black box....
Aug. 16, 2005, 8:25 a.m. CST
by Virtual Satyr
It won't be Flight 11 that struck the first tower, it will be the plane on the grassy knoll.
Aug. 16, 2005, 8:42 a.m. CST
Killing Marie off in the Bourne Supremacy was exactly the right thing to do. It gave a thing to Bourne what anything else couldn't have given him: Serious Motivation, a story tool that is overlooked too many times in Hollywood nowadays.
Aug. 16, 2005, 9:15 a.m. CST
Because I haven't heard enough about 9/11 already! Heh, i'm just jealous though (being a UKer) as you've got the snappier date, the higher body count and, truth be told, a far more watchable national disaster. Lucky sods! Now we just need to give it twenty years and Stone et al will be able to point out all the mistakes inherent in the war in Iraq. Double hurrah! And what do we learn? I guess Dr Manhattan was right, nothing ever ends.
Aug. 16, 2005, 9:29 a.m. CST
Grengrass isn't doing watchmen anymore? what happened? I must have missed that one. Can any shed any light please?
Aug. 16, 2005, 9:33 a.m. CST
For instance, have you heard the one about this group of terrorists who highjacked some planes with box cutters, rammed them into buildings, including the Pentagon, which has its own radar & SAMs and we were helpless to stop them? I mean come on! What?--was NORAD shut down that day? Only a fucking brain-dead moron would believe that!
Aug. 16, 2005, 9:46 a.m. CST
If you believe that there is a connection, then yes. Unfortunately, people who do believe crap like that detract from the real points being made by people who can show the sordid connections between various U.S. and Saudi businesses. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and not an evil component of a vast, world-wide conspiracy of Republicans/Democrats, aliens, Elvis, Bigfoot and the Elders of Zion.
Aug. 16, 2005, 10:24 a.m. CST
i dunno about this movie nor do i really care, but whoever up there referred to maggie gyllenhaal as a 3rd-rate JAP tart should go ahead and be chemically castrated. seriously dude. your penis privileges are fucking revoked.
Aug. 16, 2005, 10:29 a.m. CST
My theory on the flight 93 is that the passengers did indeed take back the plane, and had everything under control (it's a fact one of them was a pilot). Unfortuntly they were unable to convey this fact to the F-16 fighters that were ordered to take them down, and this is why they crashed. It explains why the government keeps on holding back on the last 30 seconds or so of the black box. Just a pet theory though, no need to call me crazy for suspecting it.
Aug. 16, 2005, 10:32 a.m. CST
So when would it not be too soon? I don't think there's an answer to that - some will be offended some won't. Just remember where your sensitivities lie. No one seemed to be upset when the Studios annouced the 9/11 film with Nic Cage on the same day as the subway bombings in London. And please stop with this jingoistic crap about heroes. What is it with Americas endless appetite for heroes? Personally I think it fills the need for a moral superiority that simply doesn't exist. The events on flight 93 (which were likely motivated as much by self preservation as anything else) were fantastic enough without the added polemics of heroism and freedom.
Aug. 16, 2005, 10:47 a.m. CST
In case anyone is interested, Edward J. Epstein has a fairly mind-blowing article on his website regarding the popular notion that the hijackers used box-cutters. http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/nether_fictoid9.htm
Aug. 16, 2005, 10:50 a.m. CST
by I Dunno
You know it's coming. As for it being too soon for 9/11 stories, it's been 4 years, 5 by the time this comes out. They were making WWII and Viet Nam movies in less "healing" time.
Aug. 16, 2005, 10:51 a.m. CST
Spot on Heisenberg85, there was no way Flight 93 was going anywhere. It was brought down by the F-16's. Otherwise why the media black-out? All we ever saw was a long shot of smoke rising from a field. Another cover up/fuck up courtesy of old Georgie boy. If he was president of my country (UK, i'd be planning a revolution brothers!!!
Aug. 16, 2005, 10:53 a.m. CST
but Oliver Stone will be happy to get free advertising on cable news, talk radio, and in the blogosphere. I wish the first major film about the attacks on the World Trade Center wasn't going to be done by a guy who thought we were to blame for it, but it is a free country, Oliver, so early congrats to you on your financial success. I hope you can sleep at night.
Aug. 16, 2005, 10:54 a.m. CST
According to the 9/11 Commission Report, the passengers never made it into the cockpit of the craft. The flight recorder has them trying to open the door, which the terrorists somehow jammed. Thus, even though the passengers were attempting to take back the plane, a heroic action by itself, they didn
Aug. 16, 2005, 11:08 a.m. CST
The other theory advanced which makes a lot of sense to me is that the passengers did not make it into the cockpit, but they were on the verge of doing so when the jihadists crashed the plane. They probably realized that the passengers would be able to retake the plane if they tried to wait to reach their target in DC. As far as F-16s go, the Administration has admitted that they were planning to shoot down Flight 93 if necessary so I'm not certain why they would hide the fact that they actually did it. As far as I know there hasn't been any outrage over the notion of shooting down that flight, so I don't think it is very plausible for the administration to make such a non-controversial decision (heartbreaking, yes, but not controversial) then go to extraordinary means to try and cover it up.
Aug. 16, 2005, 11:15 a.m. CST
by Alex P. Keaton
im i the only person who sat through that load of shit film Alexander? why is this the man helming a 9/11 pic? even though its way to soon to be making money off of this...but, holy shit was alexander a bad movie... my bad this is about the other 9/11 movie... well its nice to see hollywood competing to see who can milk the most money from one of the worst event ever to happen on american soil...
Aug. 16, 2005, 11:17 a.m. CST
Tom Cruise blasts into the Pentagon at 4 feet altitude at 500 miles per hour and doesn't burn the grass or leave any debris, excepty for his turbo wheel. Way to go Tommy Boyee. Almost as believable as aliens coming in through lightning bolts.
Aug. 16, 2005, 11:20 a.m. CST
The plane was shot down, wreckage was found miles away from the main body indicating a mid-air explosion. The heroics were invented to make America feel good about itself.
Aug. 16, 2005, 11:31 a.m. CST
because this is such a politically charged event, there's always going to be a danger that 9/11 stories can become propaganda in either direction. Either you have "America #1" jingoistic heroes or you have condemnations of America. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be told. A good writer (and director - though I have doubts about Stone) can hopefully avoid those pitfalls and not do a "message" but show the humanity involved, the ambiguities of the people and the situation. I don't think we should necessarily jump to a knee-jerk response that "they're cashing in." When you have such a devastating event, what helps us evolve as human beings is the ability to tell stories about it. The big ones and the small ones. Every 9/11 story should be judged on its own merit. That said, I think it's much more helpful to do stories about things that actual people have witnessed and can tell about, rather than to speculate about what "might have happened" on Flight 93, because - let's face it - we'll never know the truth, and any filmic reconstruction of the event will be solidified in the public mind as what "really happened." That, I think, is dangerous.
Aug. 16, 2005, 11:34 a.m. CST
Was Flight 93 shot down in the sky or was there a brawl on board that brought it down? That's an important question but there are much more troubling questions to ponder. Why did it take the Bush Administration two months to get into the part of Afghanistan where Bin Laden was hiding? Why was the job of containing Tora Bora, the part of Afghanistan Bin Laden was trapped in, outsourced to Afghan warlords? Why do we now have less than 20,000 troops in Afghanistan, the country that attacked us, but 135,000 in Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9/11? The Bush administration fumbled the response to 9/11.
Aug. 16, 2005, 11:43 a.m. CST
I'm all for the howdy doody patriotic bulshit(Hell, 25th Hour is one of my favourite films), but this shit pales like a cracked up Korean cam whore to anything that the Watchmen could have been.
Aug. 16, 2005, 11:57 a.m. CST
there was wreakage scattered for miles...a plane that crashes does not leave such debris. it was shot down...the media began the hero story and the official channels went with it and covered it all up. do a little research on the eyewitnesses. 9/11 is a series of LIES! and we are at war with half the world now because of it. we are such suckers.
Aug. 16, 2005, 12:21 p.m. CST
If anything, it was one man's raw emotions about the event and race relations - in no way a message, probably the furthest from hdpb out there. Btw, an interesting article (in an academic journal about esoteric studies, no less) about the secrecy of the Bush administration and the neocon policy that predicted 9/11 and planned Iraq before 9/11 - this isn't conspiracy theory, these are actual quotes: http://tinyurl.com/48vao Bush as Machiavelli's The Prince. Interesting.
Aug. 16, 2005, 12:22 p.m. CST
Hey Shit head, I guess all the people who called their families from the plane on their cell phones were actors then? Feel free to kill yourself anytime now, no one would miss you.
Aug. 16, 2005, 12:22 p.m. CST
"A government will show us bad news to kepp the people preoccupied so they don't notice all the bad things the government is doing." cheesy? maybe. True? Heck Yes! The American government wants us all to concentrate on our feardoms instead of our freedoms, which, if you haven't noticed are being erroded away by something called the Patriot Act. Damn. I hope John Ashcroft dies a slow painful death. I hope they all die slow painful deaths.
Aug. 16, 2005, 12:24 p.m. CST
spoken like a true left wing nut... i assume know this because you were an eye witness to it being shot down? naw, more likely because it's what bill clinton told you mom last night and she relayed the message onto you
Aug. 16, 2005, 12:27 p.m. CST
Yes, we have to make up the fact that Muslims are blood thirsty and hate every other religion....CAIRO, Egypt (CNN) -- The father of one of the hijackers who commandeered the first plane that crashed into the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, praised the recent terror attacks in London and said many more would follow. Speaking to CNN producer Ayman Mohyeldin Tuesday in his apartment in the upper-middle-class Cairo suburb of Giza, Mohamed el-Amir said he would like to see more attacks like the July 7 bombings of three London subway trains and a bus that killed 52 people, plus the four bombers. Displayed prominently in the apartment were pictures of el-Amir's son, Mohamed Atta, the man who is believed to have piloted American Airlines Flight 11 into the north tower of the World Trade Center as part of the attacks on the United States. ursing in Arabic, el-Amir also denounced Arab leaders and Muslims who condemned the London attacks as being traitors and non-Muslims. He passionately vowed that he would do anything within his power to encourage more attacks. When asked if he would allow a CNN crew to videotape another interview with him, el-Amir said he would give his permission -- for a price of $5,000. That money, he said, would not be kept for himself, but would be donated to someone to carry out another terror attack.
Aug. 16, 2005, 12:31 p.m. CST
We were not attacked By Afganistan, but by Al-Qaida. When will people learn? To assume the entire country was in on it is to assume that all Americans are fat, pigheaded Bush worshippers.
Aug. 16, 2005, 12:34 p.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Hey-zeus. The 9-11 Conspiracy jargon never ceases to perplex me. I think if you are one who believes in a government conspiracy behind the September 2001 attacks, then you must prepare yourself for how deep that "Rabbit Hole" may actually go. And if you believe that the "hole" is indeed that deep, you'd better start planning your revolution. Don't flee to Canada, don't go to France, don't just sit there and proclaim your hatred for W and the Neo-con posse. Do your duty: abolish the government "and provide new Guards" for your future country. Flight 93 may have very well been shot down...considering what was going on that day, it would have been the "prudent" decision. But I'm not convinced of that. The evidence has yet to support such a claim. Now, I'm pretty damn sure that the Pentagon WAS hit by a plane because I had close friends and co-workers who saw the friggin' thing! Anyway, there is a reason why a conspiracy remains just that...it has yet to be proven. So, perhaps this link will provide some interesting discussion for everyone: http://tinyurl.com/5ec4a
Aug. 16, 2005, 12:36 p.m. CST
All muslims are terrorists? Of course! It makes so little sense, but that's what the popular media shows us, so you just went with the flow, right? Go to hell, Klansman
Aug. 16, 2005, 12:38 p.m. CST
Aug. 16, 2005, 12:39 p.m. CST
Greengrass is a great choice for this film. It depends on the script of course but I like the idea of improvisation. I wouldn't say it was to early providing it is handled correctly and Greengrass will do this.______oisin5199, excellent article my friend. Hopefully some bush fans will read it. No doubt there will be some great responses to it.
Aug. 16, 2005, 12:42 p.m. CST
by SLEAZY DINOSAUR
That was a pretty common expression back then, I actually thought it was kind of silly when they tried to turn it into somekind of patriotic rallying cry. I don't know what's so hard to believe about the passengers trying to take the plane back, flight 93 took off 40 minutes late, so it was a given they would find out about what happened to the other planes, nobody would just sit there and wait patiently to die, they knew what the hi-jackers had in store, it just stands to reason they would try to do something. The terrorists were kind of stupid to still try and go through with it after the flight was delayed so long.
Aug. 16, 2005, 12:49 p.m. CST
I hope they're keeping Hell hot for that dumb cunt.
Aug. 16, 2005, 1:12 p.m. CST
Lemme guess, theresa heinz kerry for president... 20bucks you don't like bush because the cereal box you ate from today was sponsered by moveon.org and read "George Bush eats children," and naturally you believed it
Aug. 16, 2005, 1:13 p.m. CST
Klansmen are friggin saints compare to the 1300 years of hatred and bloodshed that Islam has forced upon the world.The liberal media WHITEWASHES the violence. Don't hear too many stories about the killings of black christians Africa do you? "Some 60,000 people have died and thousands more have been injured as a result of the political violence that
Aug. 16, 2005, 1:17 p.m. CST
Huh? How could 30,000 people going thru terrorist camps that were run by the Tailiban (who ran Afganistan) and then were let loose to attack the U.S., not be considered to be an act of war? Please get your head out of your ass. I guess you like it in there, it is smelly and dark.
Aug. 16, 2005, 1:24 p.m. CST
Thanks for the John Kerry talking points. Now for a little more accurate analysis of what happened in the Tora Bora region. First off, liberals and Democrats complain that we knew we had Osama bin Laden cornered. Unfortunately, there was equally compelling evidence that OBL was also in Kashmir as well as other places. Then these people complain that the campaign was outsourced to Afghan warlords. Wrong again. It was a joint operation, and there were American forces involved including AC-130s, predator drones, and special forces units on the ground. Yes, they were small in numbers, but putting large numbers of infantry in difficult mountain terrain, we would have suffered higher losses in pursuit of a person that we weren't certain was there. Plus, putting 100,000 plus troops on the ground in Afghanistan and Pakistan would certainly have created a serious political problem as well. Special forces units, precision guided weapons, and local forces was the best option considering the circumstances and the bottom line is that Tora Bora was not the sure thing that liberal armchair generals would want you to believe.
Aug. 16, 2005, 1:25 p.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
We were not attacked by Afganistan. We were attacked by Osama and Co. Due to the fact that the Taliban refused to give him up, they left themselves no choice but to eat our bombs. Remember? If your country grants asylum or safe haven to a terrorist, you will be viewed guilty by association. I believe our current president said as much during his speech to Congress following 9-11.
One thing though: at the moment, the exact national make-up of all the terrorists involved in the 9-11 attacks escapes me. I know the majority was Saudi Arabian.
Aug. 16, 2005, 1:41 p.m. CST
They were too backwardass to have a real army base. Doesn't mean they were enemy combatants. 800 years and no progress, gee i wonder why that would be? If you said hard core islamic rule, you would be correct...
Aug. 16, 2005, 1:49 p.m. CST
It's true, I think the thing was shot down. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that was the wrong decision. It could've been headed for a nuclear power plant, for all we know. But I have believed it since 9-11 when it took all day before the media showed any footage of the crash site. What's going on, I thought? They got shitty directions to the smoking field in the middle of nowhere? Since then I've read about how the FBI at first said they weren't sure if it had been shot down or not, then said whoops I mean no it definitely wasn't shot down is what I meant to say. I've read about the numerous witnesses that saw another plane fly past and thought it had been shot down. And how the wreckage spread across miles, with the official explanation being that the wind blew huge heavy engine parts all across the land. The one that sealed it for me though is the 911 call of the guy in the bathroom on the plane - you hear an explosion and he describes smoke on the side of the plane (you can't deny there's something up with that one). Also I noticed that in the Zachariah Moussai case the prosecutor at one time announced that they were going to use evidence provided by recordings of a plane that was following Flight 93 and somehow recording it. That was interesting because before the official story was that everybody imagined seeing another plane there that day, it had supposedly been proven that there was no plane nearby. Now without warning the official story was reversed. (I've never seen anyone follow up on that one). Even Rumsfeld slipped that one time and referred to it being shot down in a speech. I don't know, I don't think this is a big thing to argue about, I'm not gonna fight to get to the bottom of it or try to convince anyone. Those people on the plane *are* heroes who fought back, and unlike the Bush people they believed in democracy (they voted on whether or not to fight back). But you know what, I guarantee you that some day long from now when Bush is a distant memory of horror, everybody will agree that some poor bastard, whose name we will probaly know at that time, had to shoot down Flight 93. And nobody will remember calling me a conspiracy nutjob for knowing it early. But I will accept your implied apologies. * * * As for the movie, I agree - too soon. But I guess we'll see if they can pull it off tastefully.
Aug. 16, 2005, 1:49 p.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Gee, I was just gonna say "hard core Islamic rule". Yes, I'm quite aware that they would love to see the re-establishment of a 13th century caliphate.
Aug. 16, 2005, 2:25 p.m. CST
Most 9/11 conspiracy theories are insane, dispicable rantings. But the fact that #93 was shot down should be apparant to anyone who's done the most basic research on the Net. There's not ONE photo of the crash site that shows even a shard of wreckage. No crater, no overhead shots...NOTHING. MANY witnesses saw a white plane (strangely, it was a white A-10 thunderbolt) AND an f-16 in the area, flying super low. Major chunks of wreckage were found miles away by civillians (but again, why no photos that show a piece or two?), and of course, they haven't released complete data recorder/voice recorder transcripts (and if they did, they'd surely be doctored, given the scope of this lie). But all this does not negate the fact/posibillity that real heroes DID (or trie to) break into the cockpit, nor does it alter the fact that shooting it down was the best & only option at the time. I think the hero angle ("Lets roll!") gave the feds the ability to hide the facts, but it wasn't all fabricated. Still, it's a terrible scenario...the heroes break in, subdue the terrorists grab the yoke and BOOOM, the sidewinder takes them out.
Aug. 16, 2005, 2:36 p.m. CST
the terrorists would have put the plane into a steep dive. And once the f16 (or whatever it was) pilot saw the plane go into a dive he had no choice but to destroy it in order to minimize the damage on the ground. It is very possible there were fighters following several "suspect" flights that day with order to shoot down any that looked to be going down, intentional or not.
Aug. 16, 2005, 2:47 p.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
You may find this interesting. Read this link: http://tinyurl.com/9uar6
Aug. 16, 2005, 3:09 p.m. CST
http://www.flight93crash.com/ "Popular Mechanics"?? Considering NOBODY'S seen a single photo showing wreckage, their debunking rings hollow, and again, it's apparant full transcripts of the boxes haven't come out. The witnesses ID the plane as an A-10, AND several saw an F-16 as well. OH...one other little thing....DONALD RUMSFELD SAID THAT WE SHOT IT OUT AT A PRESS CONFERENCE!!!! http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2622 http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42112 In the first link they say that air traffic controllers in Cleveland were hushed up too, something I previously have never heard!! And they say Rummy made a 'mistake'?? Sure, he mistakenly let the truth slip out!
Aug. 16, 2005, 3:14 p.m. CST
Plenty of time has passed. There are still going to be ill feelings towards 9/11 even twenty years from now. Forty. Here's the problem with this country right now... the media is so enveloped with politics that we do not see what is going on. We are blind. Think back to the Vietnam era where families sat in their livingrooms watching the war. The media was showing what was really going on over there... for the most part. They were showing wounded soldiers, battles, etc. That is why the country rose up and freedom of speech was at its best. But now, America is asleep because they don't see what is going on. We're so frickin' sensitive now that the media is scared to show a picture of a car bomb going off (CNN reps recently were denied the chance to use their footage of such an incident), or of a live battle with insurgents, or of general life for a soldier in Iraq. We're not seeing this. Media reps are either Republican based and don't want to show that type of negative stuff, or they are too scared that they will lose viewers/readers. It's too bad we live in a day and age where this happens. The youth of America is being corrupted because all that they learn to do is to consume (Xbox, PSP, Ipods, CDs, etc.). They don't see enough of what is going on to learn and react. Thus, movies like this are necessary... more than ever. Hopfully the filmmakers don't get make this into a Michael Bay film with slo mo shots of people standing in fornt of the flag. Hopefully they make it as real as they... because that is what people need to see. And for the record, the passengers DID get access to the cockpit, however the terrorists made the choice to down the plane while screaming, "Allah is great. Allah is great." 9/11 Commision Report. Read what really happened.
Aug. 16, 2005, 3:35 p.m. CST
...so it must be true!!! Puh-leez...NOTHING went in the 911 report that top-level people didn't want in there. TRANSCRIPTS were released, not audio, and that's what's in the report.
Aug. 16, 2005, 3:35 p.m. CST
That's great.... referring to articles at The Truth Seeker and World Net Daily. No bias there at all, no siree. I particularly like the headline "Fighting Knife Found in Flight 93 Wreckage!"
Aug. 16, 2005, 3:38 p.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Interesting indeed. Kind of goes agains this assessment: http://tinyurl.com/bopmw Your site also states that the FBI allowed family members to hear the Cockpit Voice Recorder though nothing conclusive could be drawn from it. In which case this link is very interesting as well: http://tinyurl.com/anxhx Now, I've never heard that an A-10 was spotted...not quite the plane you would want to use to shoot another plane down...it's slow and designed for killing tanks. But an F-16 I could understand. And it wouldn't surprise me if one was in the area. Question is, at what point did it get there? Anyway, I suppose we could all quote links and stuff to one another all day...such is the web. Still doesn't change the fact that I believe in Bigfoot and that we actually did land on the moon...
Aug. 16, 2005, 3:53 p.m. CST
The Commission Report was bipartisan and as Patriotic as you could hope for BECAUSE they didn't turn a blind eye to any concrete evidence. They confirmed that there was no confirmed link between Al Queda and Iraq, thus proving that Bush's reason to go to war was false in the highest capacity. These investigators focused on the truth. You can come up with your own theories all you want. Hey, I'm a believer that there were multiple conspiricies regarding JFK's assasination. But you can only take that so far. Don't knock that Report until you've read it. Does it tell the full truth??? Hell no. But it doesn't protect anyone. Rumors are rumors. Believe what you want. But you can only take conspiracy theories so far. Who knows.
Aug. 16, 2005, 4:38 p.m. CST
From Harry's idiotic talk about the world being swept by aircraft disaster fever cos 120 people just died in Greece and there's a movie being made about snakes(Yeah I'm sure they were high-fiving each other all the way into that mountain knowing Harry fuckwit Knowles was watching a John Wayne movie and talking shit about a snake-on-a-plane movie. Thank God we aren't dying in vain!) to the easy way he mentions that these two pricks are "racing" to get their 9/11 movies out. Guess the Alexander debacle wasn't bad enough for Stone.
Aug. 16, 2005, 5:07 p.m. CST
That's terrific they are making films that boost the official story by the Bush World Order. Now whose gonna have the balls to make a film about the REAL truth behind 9/11? Obviously not Michael Moore, since he pretty much just whitewashed the whole thing. Why did NORAD stand down that day? Why did WTC 7 fall in a controlled demolition? What abotu the forewarnings? And why do our leaders belong to shadowy groups offshooted from the Illuminati? See, this makes for a great cinematic experience tinfoil theorist crap or not, not the sugar coated Fox Channel experience. I found a powerful documentary online that blows away Fahrenheit 9/11, as cynical as I am about these sort of documentaries this one was awe striking: Martial Law 9/11, a ddocumentary film by Alex Jones that is now online: Part-I (on the streets in new york with the police state and RNC) http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/alex_jones_-_martial_law_911__1_of_3_.wmv Part-II(exploring every major known 9/11 conspiracy in great detail) http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/alex_jones_-_martial_law_911__2_of_3_.wmv Part-III(in depth into secret societies, bankers, the nazis, ties of 9/11, and a possible future of big brother) http://radio.indymedia.org/uploads/martial_law_p03_bb.wmv
Aug. 16, 2005, 5:15 p.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Ah yes. I was wondering when someone was gonna get around to mentioning him and InfoWars. Yeah, ol' Alex definitely thinks he knows what's really going on. Emphasis on the "thinks he knows".
Aug. 16, 2005, 5:48 p.m. CST
like harry and michael moore
Aug. 16, 2005, 5:51 p.m. CST
Turning 9/11 trivial and into movie entertainment, only in America.
Aug. 16, 2005, 5:56 p.m. CST
Any film that keeps Peter Greengrass (or indeed, ANY other director) from royally fucking up Watchmen has got to be a good thing!
Aug. 16, 2005, 6:23 p.m. CST
by Gheorghe Zamfir
Its hard for me to imagine any kind of ad campaign for these movies that won't make them seeem exploitive.
Aug. 16, 2005, 6:29 p.m. CST
Keep up the good work! Stuff like this is why I never admit to posting on internet web boards like this one to my real life friends.
Aug. 16, 2005, 6:32 p.m. CST
Hey, I realize a lot of conspiracy theories are whackjob tinfoil fantasy. But every now and then, things that were once conspiracy theory, turn out to be true. Like the CIA's involvement with mind control/MK Ultra. I think it is ignorant to believe every conspiracy theory ya hear, but I also find it equally ignorant to dismiss all conspiracy theory as BS. As for Alex Jones, I just find him entertaining in a WWF/Bill Hicks rabble rouser sort of way. As for cashing in on 9/11...just watch, in a few years you'll see Gap and Target ads with young people wearing patriotic wear smiling, saying "How are YOU gonna celebrate your 9/11? Check out the 9/11 sale this weekend and Save!" It will be like 4th of July 2.0 Finally, let me get this straight...if ya don't buy the lies and deceit of the Bush administration, you're a liberal. It's funny, Kerry and Bush were both members of the Illuminati offshoot Skull N Bones, so no matter who America elected it was bad news anyways. And here is something that isnt conspiracy theory: Bush grandfather PRecott Bush helped funded Hitler's rise to power vias Union Bank...and was prosecuted by Hoover in the early 40's. The Bushes have a long history of very nefarious dealings.
Aug. 16, 2005, 6:46 p.m. CST
Oh yes, and here is my top ten favorite conspiracy theories...not saying I believe most of em, but I find them entertaining: 10. Denver International Airport is a future base for a new world order base between the grey aliens, Freemasons and Illuminati. 9. The Federal Reserve was created privately by rich families, secret socieites, banks, and corporations; and that the symbols on the back of the dollar bill are from Illuminati and Masonic lore. 8. The CIA was behind JFK's assasination and helped cover it up. 7. Washington's top elite and powerful were using child sex rings at parties during the 80's, including Bohemian Grove. 6. AIDS was a manufactured bio weapon, spread through the WHO vaccine program in Africa, Chicago gay population, and Haiti during the late 70's. 5. TWA Flight 800 in July 1996 was broughtdown by either a terrorist stinger missle or an accidental NAVY test fire near Long Island. 4. The CIA helped funnel coke, which was turned into crack in the LA ghettos during the 80's, to help fund central American guerrillas...thus creating the crack epidemic. 3. Companies like IBM and Bayer were contracted to help make the Holocaust speedier and effecient, and that Ford, GM and Coca Cola were also collaborating with the Nazis. Also, the theory that Dupont, Goodyear and other corporations and bankers planned a fascist overthrow of FDR and the government in 1934. 2. The world is run by a groups that meet annually at Bilderberg and Bohemian Grove, made up of top US heads, oil and defense companies, rich powerful families like the Rothchilds, corporations, and secret societies. 1. The US had some involvement or complicity with 9/11, using the tragedy as the impetus for wars and sweeping measures liek the Patriot Act. And that WTC 7 was brought down by explosives, as were towers 1 & 2 after the impact. While there is some loose merit or fact behind some of these, they are more just intriguing or entertaining than anything else. But hey, if youre going to accept Michael Moore, the sky's the limit for what ya can accept.
Aug. 16, 2005, 7:31 p.m. CST
Walken2008 - this seems to be real! He's running for President in 2008! He's got my vote!
Aug. 16, 2005, 7:48 p.m. CST
Pockybot, I'm not sure if you are for real or not, but you brought up some great points! I would like to first off point out that look at all the damned replies to this issue! Touchy subject, huh?! All of you pointing to the Popular Mechanics article should notice who the lead writer was, Benjamin Chertoff, non other than Micheal Chertoff's nephew. For those of you who don't know, Chertoff now heads the Father(Home)land Security Dept. Small world, huh? That article is what is called a straw man operation, plain and simple...take the weirdest and most implausible conspiracy theories out there, and rip it apart, meanwhile ignoring any plausible portion of said inconsistencies of the official story. The 9/11 Commission was and is a joke, read David Ray Griffins "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions". Great read. Any time you hear: "We're from the government, and will get to the bottom of this", you should look in the exact opposite direction they are trying to get you to look. I'll defend Alex Jones for one reason, at prisonplanet.com there is a 9/11 archive, I dare you to take a Saturday afternoon and read ALL OF IT, and deny that 99 percent of what is in there isn't from the MAIN STREAM NEWS! I find the A-10 thunderbolt story sad because it's another cog of disinformation in this whole debacle of actual patriots ( in which the patriot act is aimed at ) in this country are actively trying to get to the truth. All of you people that can't see past the right or the left, who, with a kneejerk reaction, automatically assume that if you are not on the left you must be on the right, and vice-versa. That's sad, and so is all the name calling, and all the references to bigfoot or the moonlanding or whatever. Isn't it funny that we post these ramblings and accuse eachother of being stupid and/or naive, constantly at eachothers throats, when the real culprits are the ones who have been running this machine from behind the scenes (Bohemian Grove, Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations). I would like to go to Camp Bunnebunkport (sp) and bitchslap both Bush Senior and their surrogate son Clinton, how's that for bipartisanship?
Aug. 16, 2005, 8:28 p.m. CST
See above, for the final word! Oh, yeah, I almost forgot. Since Harry lives in or near Austin Texas, and so does this Alex Jones, why haven't we've seen a review of Alex's documentary "9/11: The road to tyranny"(as said in the N.Y.Post that Fahrenheit 9/11 was a ripoff of)? I know you like Mike Moore and all, and it is easier to paint Bush as a simpleton isn't it? That way you can laugh at him with ease while his policies continue the(decades old)agenda of incrimentaly destroying the bill of rights, the constitution, and our national borders. I know Harry HAS to watch a little bit of local news and has happened to have seen the border wars that have been going on down there. Hundreds of people killed, including police officers on both sides, the governor of Arizona calling for a state of emergency in 4 counties with the border with mexico...oh hell. I'm just one of those loopy Americans that sees through the left and the right..cuckoo...
Aug. 16, 2005, 8:32 p.m. CST
well said Wnanahara7
Aug. 16, 2005, 10:07 p.m. CST
That would so rock!
Aug. 16, 2005, 10:32 p.m. CST
I'm glad to see that the flight 93 being shot down theory is largely accepted here. To me it doesn't matter, it was the right thing to shoot down a plane that has been hijacked. But overall there are some unanswered questions about the day. In the paraphrased words of Rorschach, saying nothing, merely implying. 1.Why did it take so long to scramble jets, the SOP for hijackings pre-911 was scrambling jets within 30 minutes. This is a matter of public record, and yet officially no jets were there within 30 minutes. 2. There have been no released security footage of any of the 19 hijackers boarding flights. There are cameras everywhere, and yet no shots have been released. This is particularly puzzling. 3. Cellphones don't work on planes. If you're at any significant altitude it's impossible to get a signal. Try it next time you're on a plane. So how could so many of the passengers of flight 93 make calls? (Perhaps they were at a very low altitude at the time). There are many common sense questions that can be raised, and yet questioning the official story that was crammed out in hours gets you labeled a nut job. Personally I don't believe the more outrageous theories, but rather that some parts of the government may have allowed the attacks to happen (ala pearl harbor).
Aug. 16, 2005, 11:05 p.m. CST
Aug. 16, 2005, 11:09 p.m. CST
As I was saying...I don't want to see a 9/11 movie right now. Maybe in about ten years. Its not politics or anything, its just not good timing. I can't imagine any film being anything more than divisive or a BAD attempt at making money off a tragedy.
Aug. 16, 2005, 11:28 p.m. CST
Hey guys, my name is Bryce Wagoner and I play Richard Guadagno, who was one of the passengers that led the charge on flight 93. Our docudrama(The Flight that Fought Back)will air on Sept. 11th on the Discovery Channell. It's already been featured on the front page of the Wall Street Journal, as well as Access Hollywood. The overwhelming majority of the facts are taken directly from what the government and the airlines released. The rest was done with the cooperation from the family members of the deceased. I hope ya'll will enjoy it! www.brycewagoner.com
Aug. 16, 2005, 11:29 p.m. CST
Hey guys, my name is Bryce Wagoner and I play Richard Guadagno, who was one of the passengers that led the charge on flight 93. Our docudrama(The Flight that Fought Back)will air on Sept. 11th on the Discovery Channel. It's already been featured on the front page of the Wall Street Journal, as well as Access Hollywood. The overwhelming majority of the facts are taken directly from what the government and the airlines released. The rest was done with the cooperation from the family members of the deceased. I hope ya'll will enjoy it! www.brycewagoner.com
Aug. 16, 2005, 11:33 p.m. CST
Yes, they have those phones, but the official story says that the passengers of flight 93 explicitly used CELLPHONES. And please, if you can provide links of the footage of hijackers boarding the planes please do. Note, I know there is footage of the hijackers boarding planes on the west coast, and relatively recently released footage of 2 of the hijackers getting on a doomed, but that footage is blurry and lacks any timestamps. For the sake of argument I'll accept that one video, that still leaves 3 more flights unaccounted. And please, spar the asinine smart ass comments this time.
Aug. 16, 2005, 11:43 p.m. CST
The government may not have been behind the attacks, but they were certainly ready to take advantage of them to push their agenda. This stuff is in writing! Before 9/11, certain neocon agenda setters admitted that the American people would only willingly go along with their plans for dominating the middle east if there was another Pearl Harbor!! Check my above link.
Aug. 17, 2005, 12:04 a.m. CST
When I said we were attacked by Afghanistan, I meant that the group that attacked us was hiding out in Afghanistan. The Afghani people did not attack us on 9/11. 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi nationals. My point is that we are paying very little attention to Afghanistan because we have become distracted with the clusterfuck in Iraq. Invading Iraq was counterproductive to the War on Terror.
Aug. 17, 2005, 1:05 a.m. CST
It's gonna be a thoughtful look at planet Earth during George W. Bush's Presidency, and specifically it reveals how many horrific global events, from tsunamis to assasinations, plagues, locusts and killer bees can all be mysteriously linked to one man from Texas. By the end of the film I promise that you'll be fascinated, amazed and outraged.
Aug. 17, 2005, 1:38 a.m. CST
As the corporate controlled media(GE, Murdoch's Newscorp, Disney, etc) keep America sedated with endless reality tv and celebrity worship, Bush and his PNAC/oil buddies most likely can't believe how good they got it. They realize to even merely question anything about their actions, is to be called a looney toon liberal. I swear, there really isn't anything Bush and company can do to make any waves with people. Invade more countries, and have more young Americans die in the name of Haliburton and the new world order? Sure! Why not! As someone said, the US government did in fact plan to use terrorist attacks against America and blame it on the Cubans(operation Northwood) in the 60's. The US conducted horrific mind control experiments against citizens and nasty medical experiments against unknowing blacks. They funded, supported and armed Indonesia in their genocide against East Timor in the moid 70's. They even backed Iraq as they killed their own people, as long as Saddam served the US' needs. Most Americans don't know that bin Laden was in fact a loose CIA operative in the 80's, and that the core makeup of al Qaeda when it was Mujahadeen fighters was trained and funded by the CIA. What about how Pakistan's top intelligence general met with both the 9/11 lead hijacker and George Tenet within a short time frame? My god, even a massive amount of 9/11 victim families want the US to open up the real answers. The truth, most of the public would not be able to handle...soul crushing truth that would be too much for people too handle. And Harry should review Martial Law 9/11, by far the best documentary I've ever seen.
Aug. 17, 2005, 9:10 a.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
I believe the references I made to Bigfoot and the moon landing were to just lighten the mood with all this conspiracy talk. And I do not believe I threw any insults or names in my previous posts. The message boards are designed for good ol' natured discussion. That's all I'm doing here. But if you want to say that your article is better than my article or whatever, that's fine. Just know that I would gladly join you in that bitchslap to our beloved leaders. And it's all about perspective, lads. Who stands to lose? And who stands to gain? Yet, strangely enough, it's not always that simple. Cheers.
Aug. 17, 2005, 9:21 a.m. CST
on 9/11/01 I woke up in a hotel room we had got the night before because it was too damn cold in Colorado to sleep in the tent we had been living in for 3 weeks (without television mind you). My wife and I were heading back to CT from a cross country trip we had planned to see the grand canyon & Utah's state parks. Anyway when I opened my eyes the video of the first building on flames was on and I thought it was a movie or a trailer of a soon to be released movie, it couldn't have been real I thought. We checked out of the hotel and were driving thru the corn fields of nebraska listening to a radio stations about the towers collapsing and we wept. But it was weird the radio station was making it sound like where we were was the most important place to be in the country (schools closed, flights were postponed, businesses shut down) which we didn't understand until we heard the president had landed in nebraska then we saw the presidential vehicles on the highway. But the best part of that horrible day (aside from calling by buddy who had just a month before stopped working there) was when that phone call was aired about the guy telling his wife on his cell phone "we're going to take the plane back my love, we have too" Fuck the conspiracy theory people and fuck all you american haters. And as far as someone making a movie about that flight for money's sake you're out of your head to say anything bad because americans wouldn't stand for some piece of shit movie about the day "we will never forget" and the pressure is on these directors to produce something honest and real & accurate to fact. Otherwise it could mean their carreer.
Aug. 17, 2005, 9:24 a.m. CST
but it boils my blood when I see assholes like ALL & wolf at the door say stupid shit about 9-11 fuck you both and if I ever see you on the street you're done. fucking pansy ass cowards, do the planet a favor and kill yourselves.
Aug. 17, 2005, 9:55 a.m. CST
new tower signals can cover 1-2 miles line of view, are all you dumbass conspiracy people saying it's not possible that any of the four flights were not traveling less than a mile or two off the ground? duh
Aug. 17, 2005, 10:15 a.m. CST
bring it on bitches, or are you all too busy blogging on your worthless websites?
Aug. 17, 2005, 10:32 a.m. CST
...At www.911wasalie.com. This film covers both towers, the pentagon, and Flight 93, and uses SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to completely obliterate the official story. It doesn't cast blame, or even mention the words Democrat or Republican. It is a simple analysis using PICTURES, AUDIO, and VIDEO footage captured during that day. Most of the PICTURES, AUDIO and VIDEO in the doc have either been shown only once on TV, or aggressively suppressed for the reason that they DON'T support the OFFICIAL story. If you are looking for a Bit-Torrent version of the Documentary, called LOOSE CHANGE, then cut and paste http://tinyurl.com/a6z5p into your browser, scroll down a little and select the 701MB version of the film. If, after watching this doc, you can still support what's going on today in the name of Sept. 11, then you should join the army and go fight in Iraq since you believe in "the Cause". Myself, I've watched it with over 30 different people, ranging from Bush haters to Bush supporters, and EVERY SINGLE ONE has walked away questioning the official story. Seriously, you don't have to believe everything you see, but America was founded on the principle of QUESTIONING why things happened, and WHO REALLY BENEFITS. (Kinda like questioning Britain's unjustified heavy taxing of the original 13 colonies, which led to THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION!)
Aug. 17, 2005, 10:35 a.m. CST
I sincerely believe it is worth the 1 hr. investment to watch this Documentary. It crushes Michael Moore's fat non-questioning ass, and is absent all the raving and sensationalism of Alex Jones.
Aug. 17, 2005, 10:43 a.m. CST
Ok, next time you fly, break the rules and keep your cellphone on. Notice how the signal dies out fairly quickly. Yes, cellphone towers can send a signal for miles, but it is not shot out spherically, for this would be a waste of power. The signals are directed more or less on the same plane close to the ground, so there is not much of a signal up in the sky. I'm an electrical engineer, I know what I'm talking about here. And we're not talking about any of the four flights, we're talking about just flight 93, since I believe they are the only ones that reportedly made cellphone calls. And flight 93 was in rural western PA, which, trust me, is not known for great cellphone coverage.
Aug. 17, 2005, 12:46 p.m. CST
1st off a discovery channel reinactment of the the crash @ the pentagon doesn't mean shit, so question that all you want but from what I can see (aside from the extra engine thing) there is zero grounds for suspicion of our government. What about the hundreds that died on those flights was all that fabricated by the government? That trailer and website claims they might have been what remote control planes (or missiles designed to look like planes) whatever show me one shred of proof, not a nit pick of details supplied by investigators because those are subject to human error being generated by humans. Tell the families of those who died in those flights and I'm sure they will agree that these conspiracy thoeries are just that theories WITHOUT proof.
Aug. 17, 2005, 1 p.m. CST
I don't believe you are an electrical engineer, but if you are prove it by answering this question I live next to an airport and for some reason periodically I get a wireless internet signal at my house that is an encrypted signal from the airport which is about 5 miles or so from my house, now I'm not sure if it's something on the planes boosting the signal or something at the airport itself but something is boosting tht wireless signal. By the way this is also applicable to our cell phones, for some reason a certain times I have full bars and others barely anything, so mr electrical engineer can you explain what it is about the airport that causes these anomalies?
Aug. 17, 2005, 1:11 p.m. CST
how many fiber optic cables are in a cat5 cable?
Aug. 17, 2005, 1:11 p.m. CST
Okay, I'm not saying the Commision Report is the end all answer to everything. I'm sure there is classified info that was not shared. But that doesn't give merit to the proposterous claims of missiles really destroying the Towers (missiles that flew under the palnes moments miliseconds before). I watched that stupid stuff at www.911wasalie.com. Talk about Power of Suggestion. If you look at the clips, you'll see that the resolution can't pick up the tip of the plane which hit the building first. Therefore, because of the speed of the plane, it may look like there is impact BEFORE it hits. The power of suggestion for weak minded or easily manipulated minds will be "convinced". Ddi the government know about a threat? I'm sure they did but didn't act on it. Did basically just react slowly and poorly? Of course. Is there some hidden plot with missiles doing the real damage, controlled demolition of the WTC, etc.? Come on. Hey, I'm no Bush supporter at all. He's an idiot in my mind. The idea of Flight 93 being shot down secretly crossed my mind and that may be a VERY VERY VERY remote possibility. But in this day and age, someone would come forward. While the thought may be in the back of your mind, you can't be so single minded and insist that there is some major conspiricy... because in the end, it's just some lame brain theory. Like the moon landing not happening.
Aug. 17, 2005, 1:26 p.m. CST
I thought I was fighting the good fight alone here. Thank you so much for not being a gossip-conspiracytheory-whore like so many of these retards. So I didn't get a chance to look into the 3rd engine thing, any ideas or thought on that one?
Aug. 17, 2005, 1:33 p.m. CST
Was that on the stupid www.911wasalie.com site? I might not have gone that far.
Aug. 17, 2005, 1:42 p.m. CST
which I'm looking into myself now, there has to be some logical explanation for that (if that is the real video footage - as it could have been manipulated) I'll be back shortly hopefully with some answers
Aug. 17, 2005, 1:56 p.m. CST
www.911inplanesite.com shows the same plane but not a 3rd engine instead it shows or hints toward the plane being a "militarized version" it looks like someone leached onto that concept but changed it slightly don't support the above site by going there instead go to www.september11news.com to see better pictures of that plane seconds before impact because it looks to me like both the above website and the one supplied by these conspiracy dipshits are both manipulated images.
Aug. 17, 2005, 2:06 p.m. CST
dickheads, either your both supporters of those asshat sites that claim this was a conspiracy or your just plane dumb. There are hundreds of places to go on the internet to get legitimate images of that dreadful day and that plane. Sites like the major networks have never mentioned or even hinted toward the accusations of a conspiracy and they all have images that completely dicredit sites like 911wasalie & 911inplanesite. These sites are a serious injustice to the men and woman and children and firefighters that died that day, fucking assholes! and you both are now officially on my list of worlds most fucked up people that I will hurt if I ever meet - and once your on the list there is no getting off. watch your back bitches
Aug. 17, 2005, 2:15 p.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Now, now Mr. Factor. Are you actually THREATENING Haisen & Huska on this little talkback thread? Shame on you, sir.
Aug. 17, 2005, 2:15 p.m. CST
I know your in TX or whatever but talk about prime candidates to be banned. These people that spread this gossip and conspiracy theory crap I find highly offensive! What aren't you banning them? The disrespect and injustice they provoke is bullshit. And don't be surprised if some of the victims of that tragedy give you shit for allowing these morons to say the things they are. Why would you allow them to promote these bullshit sites? Hell I had a post removed recently because I pointed people toward strong bad emails, yet you allow this? get on the ball here harry.
Aug. 17, 2005, 2:22 p.m. CST
Student, I should have thrown the word student in there. But, I did just take a course on signal transmission and antenna arrays. And if you believe a cellphone tower does not direct it's signal, thus sending the signal straight up in the sky and down into the ground, thus wasting about 87% of the signal (I'm assuming that the signal will only be needed with +/- 20 degrees of the normal surface, a rough approximation, but it gets the point across. I can walk you through the spherical cooridinate integrations needed to reach that 87% if you really want)then you are a fool. Now, your questions about airport wireless signals are largely moot, since flight 93 wasn't anywhere near an airport when it crashed. Again, I'll return to me original point, have you or anyone you've known ever studied cellphone reception on an airplane? I just came back from Vegas last week, and on the flight I kept my cellphone on (against all FAA regulations). Roughly 5 minutes after liftoff my phone dropped from full signal to no signal.
Aug. 17, 2005, 2:26 p.m. CST
it's not a threat to dislike these pricks for disrespecting those who died. Yeah right I said I'd hurt them if I meet them, but seriously what are the chances of that? And if you agree with these morons your name is going on the list too pal. Damn it it's times like these I wish I could send viruses and crash sites because I feel very strongly about 9-11 & I was a resident of CT and lived an hour away from where it all went down, and I'm just tired of people like these idiots and the guys selling world trade center memorabilia on the streets of NYC. people that pray on the tragedy yet give nothing back to help remedy the outcome. Do you not agree?
Aug. 17, 2005, 2:33 p.m. CST
but you shouldn't because of threats of juvenile threats of physical violence? Even if these theories are totally wrong (and I agree the missile disguise is a bit far fetched) any argument you have I've completely ignored because of your childish threats against people who are expressing ideas.
Aug. 17, 2005, 2:33 p.m. CST
not sure what makes you think I'm a redneck but don't really care either. You contribute nothing intelligent to this arguement so you have not a leg to stand on asshole. Also the fact that you said suck my fat one (according to freudian logic) means you have a more than likely small pecker and wish a GUY would come and give it a couple pulls. But no thanks I'm straight and if your going to come at me you better have more than vulgarity in your arsenal you piece of shit. Now turn around and shove that opposable thumb of your right up your ignorant ass
Aug. 17, 2005, 2:38 p.m. CST
threats are childish and immature but let's chaulk that up to me being so completely appalled by what some people are willing to say despite who they disrespect in the process. Do you know anyone that died on 9/11? because if you do you might take this a little more personally as I do.
Aug. 17, 2005, 2:41 p.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Trevor, we all have strong feelings over 9-11. It's how you choose to express them that makes all the difference. Now, if you'd like to take the time and read all my previous postings on this subject, then by all means, do so. I'd say my opinion on the ORIGINAL topic is pretty middle-of-the-road. I'm curious and skeptical...but I refuse to live in paranoia. Wanting to believe something so badly can cloud a person's reason and judgement. So...please keep me off your "list" sir. You do not want me on it. Just watch the nature of your threats; they are likely to get you thrown off by a Mr. Knowles. Cheers.
Aug. 17, 2005, 2:45 p.m. CST
all of which would stand up to anyone who disrespected those that died. If you don't like my posts don't read them. ow and don't use words you can't spell it really just makes you look stupid.
Aug. 17, 2005, 2:46 p.m. CST
as you wish
Aug. 17, 2005, 3:02 p.m. CST
you have no personal connection so I don't expect that you (even with your broad vocabulary) have any knowledge of what I'm saying. I wasn't there when it happened but I did do my part in the aftermath by going to the site and bringing food and beverages to those who needed it. I gave something back, if only my time, which I guarantee is much more than you can say. so just stop posting here because you haven't a leg to stand on BITCH!
This is so sad. 911 was a tragedy! And should be considered so by every humane person out there whether you are from America, Europe, Asia wherever. The terrorists made a deliberate statement. Those suicide bombers don't give a shit about their own lives. They are born & bred to do what they are told and are willing to give up there lives for what they are told to believe in. By bombing the twin towers etc.. on 911 they made a statement to everyone in the world. "watch out because you could be next" To try and numb the effect of the impact is just ignorant. And yes, there is cancer, and people are dying of something everyday, but I can't even fathom having known someone who died that day. Died for no reason. I can't imagine what it must be like to have walked out of that building alive when so many around me had died. Where is the compassion???
Aug. 17, 2005, 3:27 p.m. CST
come now wolf "mocking your obvious lack of IQ is simply more rewarding" whatever floats your boat loser - and to think I complimented your vocabulary, what was I thinking? You know what wolf keep being the intolerable miserable egregious bitch you are and I'm sure you'll continue to succeed in your ventures of arguing just for arguments sake but note you will look like a big ass in the process. You've made my list bitch and your slowly moving up to the the number 1 spot
Aug. 17, 2005, 3:30 p.m. CST
to answer your question the compassion is in your words
Aug. 17, 2005, 3:37 p.m. CST
I am with you on this (though you are a little rough around the edges) Would anyone out there feel different if they themselves were there or connected in some way (if only by 6 degrees of separation) How can anyone be so numb?
Aug. 17, 2005, 3:37 p.m. CST
is getting pretty boring. The real question here is how to present stories about it. I find the improvisation factor in Greengrass' film potentially interesting.
Aug. 17, 2005, 3:45 p.m. CST
First off, let me chime in on the Cell Phone factor. They do work at certain altitudes. Flight 93 was flying low....not at full elevation, travel-wise. I've used my cell phone in the air from California through the midwest to the east coast. That "argument" is a mute point. Doesn't prove or disprove anything any of you are saying. Do you really think though that all of those family members of the nearly dozen people that made calls wouldn't speak up if the government was trying to fabricate that??? There were plenty of interviews with the Emergency Response 911 operator that took one of the first calls from that flight. Moving on... not that this talkback is worth ANY of our troubles... it's sad to see that people need to belittle each other so much here at this site. Why not just friggin' discuss it without calling any naysayers to your viewpoint rednecks, pussies, or whatever? It's funny seeing each of you trying to get in the last word... but hey, to each his own. It was a tragic event. Emotions run high. The country is dividing because of lame ass politics. Repubs will vote with Repubs... Demos will vote with Demos... etc.
Aug. 17, 2005, 3:46 p.m. CST
I think emotional involvement in these movies is going to be what really grabs people, if done in the 1st person perspective that is. Staying true to facts and the concept that some of those victims fought back against the terrorists. That's the key element and why I'm leaning toward greengrasses version, well that & the fact stone hasn't really done much to impress me of recent
How many of you out there have heard Neil Young's 911 tribute song? Can anyone of you say that you weren't moved or touched in some way? How can anyone take away from what that man did to take that plane down? How can you take away from his wife and children how he died for his country and potentially saved many lives in the process? Maybe we all need something to believe in. Sure the American governmetn has hidden the true facts regarding many things ie:Watergate, Area 51 and god knows what else. But the accusations here are just unfounded and make no sense.
That Neil Young song had actual recording from the man calling his wife just before the plane crashed. Oh & by the way, I have made phone calls in flight several times just around the time the pilot says "prepare for landing". Try it sometime.
Aug. 17, 2005, 4 p.m. CST
Hey Brown Eyed... do you have a link to somewhere that plays the song. I never heard it...
Aug. 17, 2005, 4:06 p.m. CST
Todd Beamer was one of the heroes aboard United Flight 93 and is the one heard by the "911" operator to say "Let's Roll" before they bravely overtook the hijackers and saved countless lives by forcing the plane down in a field in Pennsylvania. http://elliott.monet.k12.ca.us/911Tribute/911_tribute.htm
Aug. 17, 2005, 4:09 p.m. CST
LordJohnWorfin, I didn't mean that post to be directly pointed at you, sorry about that. I guess it was because my home page is prisonplanet.tv (Alex Jones), and I read everything in here up until your post, which was the last one at the time, no offense, ok?! But as for trevorfactor, please don't remind us that people died, I'm sure most of the people in here are quite aware people died, so stop wrapping yourself in the flag and saying those who don't agree with you hate America. That sounds like a Sean Hannity 'fan' if I ever heard one. I know, I know, some could say the same about me because I'll defend Alex Jones, simply put, because of the radio interveiws he has on his show, including Ellen Mariani who has filed a R.I.C.O. suit against Bush and Co., Louie Cacchioli, A firefighter who was there at the towers and said he heard bombs going off, Jose Sanchez, who worked in the basement of the twin towers and rescued a victim of the bomb blast IN THE BASEMENT OF THE TWIN TOWERS, Paul Craig Roberts, a former Reagan official who doubts the government story, and countless others. Are all of those people conspiracy theorists, too? Are the main stream news headlines of John Ashcroft, former San Fran. mayor Willie Brown, and author Soloman Rushdie, and many other so-called v.i.p.'s were warned not to fly commercial airlines days prior to sept. 11. Is that a con. theory? What about Norad standing down, for the first time in it's 50 year history, and then come to find out that they were running a drill of the EXACT SAME SCENERIO?!! So was the CIA and so was FEMA, all on the exact same day and time. And then Condi Rice comes on TV and says we never heard of such a plan. WTF? How can anyone ignore that? How about the 'put options' that were placed on the stocks of American Airlines and United. A 'put option' is when investors beleive that stock is going to tank, and boy did it ever! How about the collapse of building 7, when the owner of the entire trade center complex, went on PBS and declared that they decided to 'pull' the buildings. 'Pulling" a building is slang for demolish a building. How in the hell did they plant explosives in that building in like what, 6 hours? It takes weeks to plant those explosives, not to mention that all the building owned by Silverstein collapsed. But buildings that were right next to the twin towers were barely scathed? And also that the building all fell in their own footprints. Why did Osama bin Laden go to an American hospital in Dubai in July of 2001, where he met with family members and the CIA? Yeah, that Osama, you know, the one where his entire family has been in business with the Bush family for decades. I saw a news reported on the scene that moring of sept.11 and the reporter went on to say that he saw NO wreckage of any kind, just small debris. And then to see men in suits going around and picking up all the peices. That was supposed to be a criminal investigation and that is what is called tampering with evidence, just like what happened at the twin towers. How about BBC reports that at least 4 of the 'highjackers' are still alive? Some papers put it as high as 9? And as for the proof that they actually boarded the plane, all we see over and over is the same photo. And speaking of photos, why did the FBI show up minutes after the pentagon incident and demand all the video from that Citgo gas station that would have provided a very clear shot, yet they were confiscated? The only pictures we the public were aloud to see don't show shit. How is it that airline pilots that have flown for decades go on record and say that these people must have been military pilots, because of the nearly impossble flight manuevers, when the people that worked at the filght schools in Florida and Minnesota said, on record, that these co-called high-jackers couldn't have flown a cesna? How do you explain that Zogby poll done some time back that said 49,5 percent of New York residence believed goverment complicity in the attacks and/or consciously failed to act No one here is saying that those planes were/were not traveling 1-2 miles of the ground, quit nitpicking at useless shit, and turn off that damned television. If all of us are cospiracy nuts or whatever then how do you explain just the tip of the iceburg I stated above? Just to cover my ass, I found all this info at CNN archives, so tell me, why are we who KNOW something is wrong asked to prove to you anything? The citizens of this country who want the truth don't have to prove didly squat to you. Ask the government the above questions that seem to be pretty logical...good luck with that...
Aug. 17, 2005, 4:12 p.m. CST
Aug. 17, 2005, 4:30 p.m. CST
see: Ellen Mariani RICO SUIT http://www.nancho.net/911/mariani.html
Aug. 17, 2005, 4:39 p.m. CST
..doesn't make sense with the quote, sorry. It is still important, though. Just because it's not be pounded into our heads on the idiot box doesn't mean it's true. If flight 93 crashed, why was there debris 8 miles away?
Aug. 17, 2005, 5 p.m. CST
I tried to bite my tongue. I tried to laugh it off and keep quiet... but I have to "discuss". Here's the thing: Do you remember while all of this was happening (9/11), how many false reports were going around? Do you remember when the news was reporting "Seven other planes missing and possibly heading towards major cities around the country"? Do you remember the scores of people that were saying "Missiles hit the WTC... they were missiles in plane view!" I could go on and on. A firefighter saying, "It sounded like bombs were going off during the collapse" does NOT offer any merit to your conspiricy theories. Yeah, I'm sure dozens upon dozens upon dozens of concrete building floors crashing down on each other would sound like bombs. That's the problem with shit like this... people take things out of context and pass them off because hey, "It was said on CNN". So all of those reports of a bunch of other flights missing means that they WERE missing and were destroyed and the government covered up those hundreds upon hundreds of deaths????? Are you serious? Beware of Mr. Alex Jones. Just because someone is saying the shit doesn't mean the shit don't smell. The Power of Suggestion. Hey, it's fun to play, "What if..." and all, but this is getting out of hand. I'm sure you heard this stuff through Alex Jones or some conspiricy book or something. Hey, admit it, I can go out there and say, "I worked in the government during 9/11 and saw what really happened! The government planned these attacks themselves so they could go to Iraq and take out Saddam! The reason there's no record of me working the in any government agency is because they burned the records to protect themselves!"-- I could go write a book. I could go on the internet... and some idiot would frickin' swear by every word that I said. People would by it. That's why people buy National Enquirer with the lies posted about celebrities and what not. Because the weak minded will eat it up and believe every printed word. I won't change your mind, I know. But this stuff is just ridiculous. Hey, it's hard to trust the government with the history of the 60s and 70s. It's just not that easy to cover something up that big these days. Thank God the conspiricy theorists only take up about .01% of this population. If that. I'm all about questioning the governments actions and holding them accountable for mistakes. Bush fucked up this country by going to Iraq under false pretenses. He fucked us worldwide and that has basically been proven. But everyone turns a blind eye?? They impeach a president for getting some head by an intern, but don't impeach a president for that???? I support the troops... but we should have gone in there when we had full support from teh UN. ANYWAY... enough already.
Aug. 17, 2005, 5:46 p.m. CST
Aug. 17, 2005, 6:07 p.m. CST
...because all evidence... I'm talking documents, transcipts, black box, witness interviews, etc. etc. etc. point out this: Two hijacked planes hit the WTC towers which caused the metal structure to fail, thus causing the towers to fall. One hijacked plane struck the U.S. Pentagon. Passengers of Flight 93 revolted against their hijackers and possibly played a role in having the plane redirected from possible targets... crashing into the ground. That's what happened. The hows and the whys are all in retrospect and we'll probably never really know EXACTLY how and why this happened. Viewpoints become conspiricy theories when people start adding missiles, demolition explosives, F-16 attacks, grand schemes by government officials, etc.
Aug. 17, 2005, 6:22 p.m. CST
Moto, I didn't say anything about missles on those jets, nowhere in my posts do I mention it, it seems counter productive when there are literally hundreds of reports to back up what I said above, please don't kill the messenger. How am I taking the interview with the firefighter out of context? He said it in a interview I heard on A.J.'s radio program, ok, I won't trust Alex, but what about Louie C. and his own words, do a google search, man, it's not my fault he said what he said. I never said anything about a bunch of missing jets, so please don't ask me if I'm serious when I never said anything about that. Moto, please understand that I don't just sit back and believe everything I hear from A.J.(he's not my ONLY source of info), ok? I completely understand your above statement, but what the hell are we supposed to do, put our heads in the sand? Don't believe anyone? Not being involved in our Constitional Republic only plays into the hands of our would be tyrants? Isn't that how history has always unfolded? Leaders carrying out terror attacks on their own population(see:Gulf of Tonkin, see:U.S.S. Liberty, see:Operation Northwoods, see:Hitler's Reichstag), and then blame their enemies, while saying that your enemies hate your freedom, while it's the Pariot act that is in fact doing that. This is a time tested plan that has been used for centuries if not longer, hell, Nero even did it. Do you think anything has changed? I just want the truth, man, ya know? Nothing in your post was directed at what I actually posted except for remembering what I saw on tv that day...why didn't you reply to any of that, especially the 'put options' and vips warned not to fly? I would rather confide in our agreement that something is wrong with the official story, can we agree on that, and please don't lump me in with the rest of the people that posted here, just what I posted, ok? It makes no sense to argue and call names and make up percentages of how many people belive what..."0.01% make up the population". So does that mean you went out and interviewed all 290 million of Americans, and those are the numbers? If you going to respond, then please respond to the specific points above, which are fact. Not whether I'm a (buzzwords we have all heard to shut down the thinking process) conspiracy whacko, or a left/right wing exremist, or whatever... Great Book..."David Ray Griffin, The 9/11 Commission Report, Ommissions and Distortions".
Aug. 17, 2005, 6:32 p.m. CST
"...Viewpoints become conspiricy theories when people start adding missiles, demolition explosives, F-16 attacks, grand schemes by government officials, etc." What happens when former high ranking government officials believe that these buildings were in fact demolished, I am sorry Moto, but I'm going to believe them before the "official version", and, well, you retelling of them verbatim, I'm sorry. It's so easy to take one person, say there were missles on the jets and then the whole thing gets shot down(no pun) and refuted.
Aug. 17, 2005, 7:06 p.m. CST
Hey, who am I to complain when there is actually an intelligent response to a discussion here at AICN!:) My response ended up being directed moreso to many of the other talkbackers regarding missiles and what not. I was speaking on general terms, and I'm sure having your name in the title of that response made you think everything I was saying was directed towards your posts. However, I saw that Jones site and couldn't believe the sensationalism that was running thick. Those movies are designed to overrun the viewers mind with extreme images like near riots, explosions,guns, etc. It's manipultion. I LOVED Michael Moore's film, but he had a lot of that as well. Jones' ambush journalism just doesn't entice me to follow anything he says. As far as the other things you brought up (VIP to not fly, etc) I'd appreciate if you had the time to direct me to some resources where I can read stuff that you have read. I'll check it out with an open mind. Hey man, I'm fully aware of government manipulation as well. The "Patriot Act", the "War on Terror", etc. Bush used 9/11 for his campaign. Without it, he wouldn't have been reelected. The Government can do some seedy shit. No we should not bury our heads in the sand, but we should be warry of people that take advantage of people's obsession with the media and internet. What high level government official believed that the building were demolished by bombs? Curious. Keep in mind there are a lot of previous government officials that may not be credible. Be it because of old age, grievences with the current government, etc. Were these officials in office during the time of these attacks? Anyway, I agree with you in many respects. We should question government more. But we have to be careful of our reasons and resources... otherwise we son't be taken seriously. An issue like Bush going to war under false pretenses is more viable to question than most of the theories that have been brought up here. As far as .01%, of course I didn't question millions of Americans... but I was making a point (albeit dramatic) that the theories represent a small percentage of the population. But please, let me know who these officials were if you remember. Like I said, were they in office during the attacks? Are they basing this on herese? Anyway, we'll agree to disagree on smoe topics brought up. At least there is an intelligent response here in talkback. Something sorely missing here most of the time...
Aug. 17, 2005, 7:33 p.m. CST
can you give me about 1 half hour...
Aug. 17, 2005, 8:36 p.m. CST
Moto, I'm sorry to say that all I can do is repeat some of the names listed in my prior posts ( if you could, just google search the claims, I did that with a google search in mind when I posted them). I can't put the addresses for these audio interviews on this posting board because they are password protected. I know that sounds like a cop-out but wait, there's more :) Prisonplanet.com and Infowars.com are both down right now and I can't even get to the articles that are important...GGGhaaa...sorry. I've never even posted here before, it was only because of this specific "flight 93 story" that I responded. It would just be easier to get an e-mail address but I understand that isn't going to happen over an anonymos post board, or whatever this is called. All I can do now is give google search parameters and hope that you agree with me that this is more widespread than some want to think... Here: "Ellen Mariani files RICO suit" "9/11 families sue Saudi Arabia in 1 trillion dollar lawsuit" "FBI taken off 9/11 hijacker's trail" "Former Reagan official doubts 9/11 story" "NYC firefighters under gag order concerning 9/11" "Sibel Edmonds under gag order concerning 9/11" "Veteran airline pilot disputes 9/11 story" "Paul Craig Roberts doubts 9/11 story" Moto, I can send you the interviews (audio) but I need an e-mail address. I'd put mine up to get yours to send this information but not sure that's what you want, but it would be easier...
I don't think Greengrass should make this film since he has no fucking clue what actually appened on that plane. After reading literature -- and not bullshit, liberal partisan literature, either -- about the lack of evidence supporting what the government says happened to flight 93, I unquestionably think our own jets shot down the airliner. It sucks to think about, because I'm a middle of the road, anti-political type, but after reading the official 9/11 report, followed by the opinions of leading forensic scientists, I can't view the situation any other way. Greengrass should hold off until the real truth comes out in ten years. Oh, that's right -- we'll be in the middle of a worldwide oil crisis that will have already crippled the infrastructures of most countries, and started global Resource Wars. No money for making movies in such an environment, I'm afraid. On second thought, go ahead and make the Flight 93 film, Paul. Right on.
Aug. 17, 2005, 11:22 p.m. CST
saying that greengrass shouldn't make a film because he doesn't know what happened there is like saying mel gibson shouldn't make a movie about jesus being crucified. and if everyone had this mindset, hollywood would be knocked on its ass- malick would be shit out of luck (a movie about the settlement of america? it's a no-go: we don't know what happened there FOR SURE). we'd be up to our gills in MINORITY REPORTS and ARMAGEDDONS! i agree with you in the sense that maybe it is a little too soon to be making films about 9-11. but look at all the other great BLOCKBUSTERS made at other peoples' expense (TITANIC, PEARL HARBOR, SAVING PRIVATE RYAN).
Aug. 17, 2005, 11:37 p.m. CST
Good point, whatyoufear. I'm just wary of the way such a film might drive home the lies most people have come to believe. But you're right; movies are entertainment, not fact. And I've enjoyed the hell out of many films that I'm sure stretched the truth beyond recognition. What I'd really like to see is a film about a fictional forensic scientist, hired by the wife of a deceased Flight 93 passenger, who's trying to get answers to his questions. That would be a twitchy, unsettling drama, in my opinion, but it would never get made. I dig Greengrass and his body of work, so I hope he puts together a quality film.
Aug. 17, 2005, 11:52 p.m. CST
I disagree. I sounded a little harsh, but the film 25th Hour is very patriotic.... The charecters are New Yorkers, they stand up for it. Also, need I remind you that it was the only film that took time to put things IN about September 11th, not take them OUT(Like Spiderman 2, and several other major blockbusters that had the WTC somewhere in the film).
Aug. 18, 2005, 12:14 a.m. CST
I believed in the official story for quite a while, because it was repeated so often. However, when I read that Bush trying to STOP the 9-11 Investigation, it made me ask one simple question. WHY? How does NOT investigating serve America? THAT is when I started looking into the official story, with eyes unclouded with political bias. The FACT is that governments in HISTORY have actually used attacks on their own people as a pretext for STRICTER LAWS. (Hitler bombing his own Parliament, the Reichstag, so that the people would support an invasion of Poland is an excellent example.) Once my mind accepted the POSSIBILITY that ANY gov't could do that, I stopped labelling "information" as STUPID and DISRESPECTFUL. It is information. It is not bad or good. It just is. You don't have to read it, and you don't have to believe it, even if you read it. But the Media is supposed to exist to give the AMERICAN PEOPLE the information they need to make good decisions. We have already seen how the MEDIA has been complicit in supporting the Iraq War at the Government's behest. Is it really so far fetched that the few dozen heads of major media outlets could keep the real questions out of the public mind? Is it really wrong to wonder WHY the government has REFUSED to release the EVIDENCE that would prove their Conspiracy Theory to be factual? Why no solid video evidence of The Pentagon being hit? There WERE more than 6 camera's that captured the plane but the FBI refuses to release anything but 5 frames of ONE camera that show NO PLANE, just an explosion. To you, trevorfactor, this might make sense, and may be acceptable. It's not my place to judge. But for me to ask questions, and demand answers when I think I'm being lied to is my constitutional right as a fucking taxpayer. I didn't vote Dem or Repub, but my tax dollars are still being used against my will to support their ventures. ------------- 2 important points I think every American who loves his country should remember: NUMBER ONE -- Both Political Parties are 2 sides of the same coin, meant to polarize us on issues of no REAL concern while they centralize power. (Gay marriage? Terri Schiavo? Michael Jackson? WHO CARES!) Almost ALL politicians are funded by companies who give them money and kickbacks to pass laws favorable to the companies while doing their best to hide it from us "common folk". ---NUMBER TWO--- The TRUTH, and The FACTS aren't always the same. "The Truth" is an absolute. We breath Air. Gravity Exists. Titanium has a melting point of 1688 Degrees, and SCIENTIFICALLY, CANNOT BE MELTED by Jet Fuel. Thus their should be evidence of Engines at the Pentagon, when their is NONE. "The FACTS" are something that the majority of people agree on, and assume to be accurate, but aren't always proven to an absolute. People used to think it was a fact that Earth was flat. People used to think it was a fact that smoking helped a cold. And some people think that Conspiracies COULDN'T POSSIBLY BE TRUE. Yeah. Hitler didn't conspire to kill Jews. The Romans didn't conspire to kill Christ. And I'm sure Dick Cheney, Vice President, and a member of Project for the New American Century, who stated in 1998 that a war in Iraq could only come about with support from the people catalyzed by "A New Pearl Harbour Type Event", was completely shocked at the coincidence of stating an intention, and then having it realized 3 years later when he was in a position to make it happen. Go back to bed. I guess the dreamworld is the only place where some people feel comfortable and in control.
Aug. 18, 2005, 12:20 a.m. CST
Half the reason some of us lazy Americans don't want to investigate 911, or ask a few painful questions, is because we are so comfortable in our reality. It is easier to be afraid of a few pictures and videos of men with Beards and Turbans. Have any of us Talkbackers ever met a terrorist? How many of us speak Arabic and can translate for ourselves what is being said on these "Terror Tapes". Simply put, the vast majority of us can't and won't put in the time to learn. Thus, we put our TRUST into the media to tell us the truth. This is an enormous amount of power to give our media, business and political leaders. We give them our power of beliefs, and unfortunately, this power has corrupted them absolutely. ------------ If LOOSE CHANGE the Doc. is too intensive for you, then might I suggest *** www.pentagonstrike.co.uk *** for it is in FLASH, and is succint 5 minutes long and covers the inconsistancies. ------- Guys and Gals..... Own your own thoughts, draw your own conclusions, and make your own decisions... and please DON'T FORCE your beliefs on others, just offer info. If a person don't want it, they don't take it, and likewise.
Aug. 18, 2005, 3:03 a.m. CST
I agree, all this crap about millitarized planes, missles hitting the pentagon, etc is BULLSHIT. It' sreally unfortunate people continue to propigate all these completely absurd tinfoil ideas...as all it does is take away from the real truth. The truth that even if th eUS didn't have a direct hand in 9/11, they sure as hell pulled back the guardrail to allow it to happen...and at th every least were complicit at the highest level. The US trained Osama and al Qaeda in the 80's, they support and fund the Taliban...and then this happens? C'mon...Bush and his cabal had so much to gain it's not even funny. Some members on here get angry at all the conspiracy theories. So when Bush said were going into Iraq because they had ties to al qaida, a hand in 9/11, have WMD's, are a direct threat to the US and bought Uranium from Nigeria...those are things we should all believe. Anyone seen THX 1138? The Island? The Matrix? 1984? Behind the veil of entertainment is the message. That those in charge will distort, lie and use whatever means to control what people think. It's why anyone who doesnt support Bush, the immoral war in Iraq or bite the official 9/11 story is called a whacko liberal trator. How blind America has become. Of course al Qaida had trained hijackers on those planes, and yes they crashed into all those buildings...but people get side tracked. Forget about Flight 93, forget about the Pentagon. The clues lie in World Trade Center 7(how it fell and who was housed in it), the plans the neo cons had should a pearl harbor like attack happen in America, *AND* the ties the CIA had to Osama and al Qaida. It's not very complicated or rocket science.
Aug. 18, 2005, 9:10 a.m. CST
Look I've already discredited any "websites" that talk about a conspiracy theory. It's really not hard to do if you compare images from those sites to say REAL reliable websites. And the fact of the matter is basic; I don't want to believe that our president authorized a plane full of our citizens (this countries men woman & children) to be shot down in an effort to prevent that plane from doing major damage but at the same time if it meant saving thousands of lives in an unsuspecting office complex than (as tough of a decision as that must have been to make) I'm all for it. my main point here is I want to remember that day as a day to mourn because of the pure number of lives lost do to terrorist attacks, and at the same time remember those who fought back in honor of thier brave & selfless acts. I don't care if bush himself aimed a shoulder mounted missile at the plane personally. That day is so painful to those personally connected and to anyone sympathetic that it doesn't matter if our government took action to shoot down that plane. It was going down anyway and I choose to be thankful to those that kept it from crashing into another major building in NY or where ever. And I choose to remember with praise & thanks those that took a stand.
Aug. 18, 2005, 10:06 a.m. CST
"Look I've already discredited any "websites" that talk about a conspiracy theory. It's really not hard to do if you compare images from those sites to say REAL reliable websites." - So then you must be the authority on what constitutes real and reliable. And what exactly are the criteria for establishing that? The number of people who agree to believe in the "REAL" site's message? ........ Next, you state, "And the fact of the matter is basic; I don't want to believe that our president authorized a plane full of our citizens (this countries men woman & children) to be shot down in an effort to prevent that plane from doing major damage but at the same time if it meant saving thousands of lives in an unsuspecting office complex than (as tough of a decision as that must have been to make) I'm all for it." ... which tends to get a bit rambly at the end (which I can be guilty of when I also feel passionately about something). Here, you finally admit you are constricted to a rigid belief. If you don't want to even consider the possibility of government involvement on a passive level, then of course you are going to VIOLENTLY OPPOSE any idea that goes even further, ie. government involvement on an active and planning level. Clearly you refuse to look at who are the ones gaining from this whole "War On Terror". I used to be filled with "Blind Patriotism" just like you, but I've always questioned my surroundings when something hasn't felt right, and unfortunately, "Once the mind has expanded, it can never go back to it's original size." I cannot blindly dismiss what I see as very compelling evidence that points in the painful direction of what I have been discussing. The main problem becomes when a person like you, "trevorfactor", instead of refuting the claims of these Conspiracy "Possibilities", (not every Conspiracy has been a Theory, as we've been so conditioned to beLIEve is true), you both RIDICULE and VIOLENTLY OPPOSE, however when ALL GUILTY PARTIES, Democrat, Republican, Media Mogul, and General are lead away in chains and cuffs, you of course, will accept everything as SELF-EVIDENT from the beginning, therefore always being right! (By agreeing with the other 87% of people who get their ideas from other people's opinions, instead of using DEDUCTIVE REASONING). Your "main point"... "my main point here is I want to remember that day as a day to mourn because of the pure number of lives lost do to terrorist attacks, and at the same time remember those who fought back in honor of thier brave & selfless acts. I don't care if bush himself aimed a shoulder mounted missile at the plane personally." ....Ok then, this is where there seems to be slight disconnect. Let me QUOTE that one line one more time... "I don't care if bush himself aimed a shoulder mounted missile at the plane personally."---- Um, I'm not gay, but fuck-my-ass that has got to be the CRUELEST thing that could be said about any of the victims of Sept 11. Clearly you show your agenda in that line, and that's where I realize all your spouting about the "victims" and "personal connections" is utter and completely vile bullshit. It isn't about anyone else. It's about how IMPORTANT "trevorfactor" is. To launch unneeded personal attacks is to Suppress Discussion out of FEAR. Guys, we shouldn't be talking about blatent inconsistancies, picture, audio and VIDEO evidence, and the connections each of the figures involved have. Who cares if at least 7 of the 19 "Hi-jackers" are still alive and living well in various Middle Eastern countries from Saudia Arabia to the UAE? Who cares if the media have a vested interest now in protecting the government because of their complicity in perpetuating the "big lie"? "trevorfactor" believes We need to think of Sept11 as a day of mourning. I can agree with him on this. I mourn for that day because it is the day this great country of America was taken away from decent, hardworking taxpayers who BUILT the country, and given to an elite cabal who have been preying on the US like parasites for more than 2 centuries. ------------------------"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State." --- Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Propaganda Minister, and Godfather of Modern Media "News", evil motherfucker. Hmmm....
Aug. 18, 2005, 12:44 p.m. CST
Good points... although while I understood your reasoning, quoting Nazi propaganda in comparison with the U.S. government is a bit "out there". Sure Hitler did some crazy shit, but Bush is no Hitler. He's a shitty president,but no Hitler. I'm open minded to a certain point. When missiles and alleged fake cell phone calls from Flight 93 victims are brought up, then it just looses all credibility. I don't trust the government fully. Hardly. As I said before, Bush is guilty of a conspiricy in regards to leading this nation into war under false pretenses. THAT is why he didn't want a full investigation (i.e. the commission report). From day one, I admit, I wondered if Flight 93 was shot down. I still wonder. But there's no evidence. People can examine the crash site and draw ANY conclusion. There were no witness accounts of an F-16 or A-15 flying overhead anywhere near Flight 93. Anyway, we should question the government. We need to. But this isn't the world of "24", or "1984", or "THX 1138".
Aug. 18, 2005, 12:53 p.m. CST
And this whole thing about 7 of the hijackers being alive and well is completely false. The names matched up, but there are so many people with the same names in the Middle East. That would be like having one of the hijackers with a name like John Smith from Wisconsin, and claiming that he was still alive because someone found a John Smith in Wisconsin. This is the crap I'm talking about. Lame brain "reports" and "facts".
Aug. 18, 2005, 1:02 p.m. CST
I use deductive reasoning BTW spent several hours yesterday looking into the sites you suggest I check out and then comparing images from that site to the one I mentioned above. I didn't go along with anyones opinion and rather formed my owned based on the research I had done. So you're wrong pal, but here's the difference between you and I (and perhaps the major difference between all skeptics and realists) is that I saw nothing of significance to make me believe contrary to my existing thoughts. I'm open minded that's why I researched those pictures of the supposed 3rd engine but come to find out (by way of comparison) they were bullshit. Look you want to be skeptical for whatever reason which is your god given right, but don't ask me to go against logic just because your skeptical. Rewind the tape here buddy and read the posts which I referenced those sites and go see for yourself. you claim I'm all about believing other peoples opinions and not forming my own but I think it is you who are guilty of this not me. I choose to believe based on logic my personal research so..... whatever. Honestly I'm really tired of defending myself
Aug. 18, 2005, 6:50 p.m. CST
Trevorfactor, I have to say I think you're blind to the POSSIBILITY that everything is not on the up-and-up vis-a-vis 9/11. I think it's perfectly reasonable to think that we don't (and will never) know what really happened on that day, and I don't really care whether we ever do. I'm just saying you need to be open to the possibility that there has been SOME cover-up. Not that it's some huge multinational corporate conspiracy, just that some details have been left out of the public's hands, out of respect for the dead. I don't think that's such an out-there theory, myself. Now, on to the good part, where I piss you off: You said, quote: "ow and don't use words you can't spell it really just makes you look stupid." OH! OH! This is TOO GOOD to pass up! Okay, let's start here: You misspelled "oh" as "ow" in the same sentence where you chided someone else for their misspellings. You also misspelled: TRULY ("truely"), THEN ("than"), CHALK ("chaulk"), ARGUMENT ("arguement"), YOU'RE ("your"), REENACTMENT ("reinactment"), ??? - could be LEASHED, could be LEECHED, could be LASHED. Take your pick. ("leached"), CAREER ("carreer"). Additionally, there were these tortured puzzles of grammatical gobbledigook: First there was "video of the first building on flames" - I suspect you meant "in flames", here. Then there was "listening to a radio stations" - I hope you meant either "radio stations" or "a radio station". Then, "we have too" - should be "we have to". Next: "What aren't you banning them?" - perhaps this was meant to be, "why aren't you banning them?", perhaps it was meant to be "what, aren't you banning them?" I have no idea since you seem to lack the ability to punctuate. Next: "dickheads, either your [you're] both supporters of those asshat sites that claim this was a conspiracy or your just plane [plain] dumb." And: "and you both are now officially on my list of worlds [world's] most fucked up people that I will hurt if I ever meet - and once your [you're] on the list there is no getting off." And: "you haven't a leg to stand on BITCH!" Punctuation. Look into it. As you have it here, you're suggesting that he has no leg to "stand on bitch". Why would he want to "stand on bitch"? Who or what, in this context, is "bitch"? Help us out, here. Now you try! Fix the following blunder applying the same lesson we learned with the last sentence: "you have not a leg to stand on asshole" - You can do it! Next: "whatever floats your boat loser" - similar problem; you have GOT to invest in some commas, dude. Without one in this sentence, you leave me wondering just what, exactly, a "boat loser" is, and why someone would endeavor to float one. And: "arguing just for arguments [argument's] sake" - Christ. "You've made my list bitch ["list bitch"?] and your [you're] slowly moving up to the the number 1 spot". And: "I'm leaning toward greengrasses [Greengrass'] version" - DUDE. Next up: "stone [Stone] hasn't really done much to impress me of recent" - "of recent"?! What the fuck is that?!! It's "of late". God DAMN. Next, we have this little gem: "this countries men woman & children" - I hardly know where to begin, so I'll go chronological rather than in decending order of egregiousness: It's "country's". "Countries" is a whole bunch of them. PUNCTUATE. "[M]en woman"? Get yourself a comma, and learn the difference between singular and plural. It's A SINGLE "woman" or it's multiple "women". So you either wanted to be talking about "men, womEn and children" or "man, womAn and child". Is it a head injury of some kind? And next, we have: "because of the pure number of lives lost do to terrorist attacks". Fuck. "[P]ure number"? SHEER number. Get a dictionary. "[D]o to the attacks"? You "DO" your inflatable girlfriend. You don't get laid "DUE" to your unrelenting backne. Learn the difference. Now: "I didn't go along with anyones [anyone's] opinion" - SIGH. Next: "difference between you and I " - "you and ME". I know, I know. Trust me, it's "you and me" in this context. And: "don't ask me to go against logic just because your [you're] skeptical" - Ay, ay, ay. And: "other peoples [people's]opinions" - can you really be THIS bad at this and still criticize other people about their spelling? And one of my favorites: "it's not a threat to dislike these pricks for disrespecting those who died. Yeah right I said I'd hurt them if I meet them [...]" THAT'S NOT A THREAT? Your hockey helmet is too tight, kid. So, okay - you insist that you're not making threats; fine. But then: "And if you agree with these morons your name is going on the list too pal." HOLY FUCK. Do you think this stuff through AFTER you type it out or something? I mean, HOLY FUCK. As if that weren't enough: "Also the fact that you said suck my fat one (according to freudian logic) means you have a more than likely small pecker and wish a GUY would come and give it a couple pulls. But no thanks I'm straight and if your going to come at me you better have more than vulgarity in your arsenal you piece of shit." - Okay, it's not Shakespeare, but it more or less makes sense if you ignore the klutzy structure and lack of any concept of punctuation, so okay. Fine. Until: "Now turn around and shove that opposable thumb of your right up your ignorant ass" - Um, dude - YOU were just making Freudian diagnoses based on someone's sexual references. You just SO opened yourself up to a "man-on-man, buttfuckin' action" joke. I mean, just open the door for yourself, why don't you? Anyway, does the term "GLASS HOUSES" mean anything to you? Now go watch Bill O'Reilly like a good boy.
Aug. 18, 2005, 7:42 p.m. CST
@moto:"Thank God the conspiricy theorists only take up about .01% of this population."<<< Well if you're Bush, thank god most people buy everything hook line and sinker. First off, I consider Alex Jones a hero. At first his confrontational over the top manner felt like a WWF wrestling manager thing. But then I saw what he was doing. Alex Jones has the balls Michael Moore wish he had. I frankly can't stand a lot of the 9/11 conspiracy stuff, but I have to say Alex Jone's Martial 9/11 is truly not just entertaining, but soul crushingly profound. People are so blind...as Morpheus says in the Matrix, there are people who will fight to keep their ignorance. I think the truth is most people would rather not know, or want to comprehend what is really going on. They say 'aw, that's all conspiracy theory...I trust the government...they'd never do anything bad'. East Timor, MK Ultra, CIA/Crack, Franklin Nebraskan coverup, Tuskegee, Northwood, Watergate, Panama, etc...how many illegal and morally irrehensible things has the American government done in just the last 30 years? Never before has oil, corporations, financial institutions, and royal families had such a compromising headlock on the White House...and Bush and company have a big green go ahead to instill, enact, invade, and do whatever the heck they want with not much reprocussions. What happens when Bush invades yet another country? Or gets caught in another lie? How many young Americans have to die for Bush' fantasy game of RISK before America wakes up? Do not let the obviously false and misguided conspiracy theories throw you off. The real truth behind 9/11 and what went into shaping it, and the fall out can be figured out by simple facts.
Aug. 18, 2005, 11:11 p.m. CST
by Ill Clinton
Seriously, someone's analytical skills are needed there, because I'm stumped.
Aug. 19, 2005, 6 p.m. CST
I know that the government has its hand in a lot of shit. Bush is making his friends a lot of money. I'm not saying that I don't think the government is messed up. I'm not saying that I don't see what is going on with the hidden agendas of the war, oil, corporations, etc. Any idiot can see that. I'm focusing on this whole 9/11 subject. These constant conspiricy theories are just... I don't even have the word for it. If Alex Jones is your hero that's fine. But just know that it doesn't take balls to be an ambush reporter and to manipulate people's opinions with sensationalism.