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'The Farm'!! Herc's Not Seen BATTLESTAR GALACTICA 2.5!!

I am – Hercules!!

What does TV Guide (the inferior version to which Herc subscribes) say?

Adama returns to duty to find the fleet divided and his estranged son in cahoots with terrorist Tom Zarek (Richard Hatch) in a pivotal episode. Cylon Sharon’s attempt on Adama’s life left Galactica in the care of the unsteady Tigh, whose bloody efforts to enforce discipline have sown the seeds of a possible civil war. To quell the growing unrest, Adama orders the arrest of Apollo and President Roslin, who are plotting revolution with Zarek’s help. Meanwhile, on Caprica, a physician takes a special interest in Starbuck after she’s wounded by the Cylons.

What is TV Guide not telling us? Invisotext on:

1) Adama orders all ships searched as Apollo and Roslin send a message seeking popular support.

2) Apollo refuses to condemn his dad.

3) Roslin plays the religious card and proclaims herself the voice of the prophet Pythia.

4) Roslin’s announcement will be met with results even she finds shocking.

5) After Starbuck is nursed to health by a doctor named Simon, she wakes to find a mysterious new scar.

6) Starbuck gets violent with Dr. Simon.

7) Starbuck discovers her fellow female survivors have been transformed into Cylon baby-machines.

10 p.m. Friday. SciFi.



Look! A better, less-expensive season-one “Galactica” set, one that contains not only the first regular season but also the entire 2003 miniseries and commentaries by series creator Ron Moore on the miniseries and nine of the first season’s 13 hours!! $41.99!!

Look! Were Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader two different people in the early drafts of “The Empire Strikes Back”? All is revealed in The Annotated Screenplays (Star Wars, Episodes IV-VI)!!

Look! The comic book Joss Whedon wants to see on TV: Global Frequency Vol. 1 and Global Frequency Vol. 2!!

Look! Original casting tapes! Deleted scenes!
Audio commentaries! Backstage with Drive Shaft!
Lost: The Complete First Season on DVD!!

Readers Talkback
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  • Aug. 12, 2005, 9:02 a.m. CST

    ?

    by Urge to Kill

    I got nothing

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 9:07 a.m. CST

    who cares if you haven't seen it?

    by yanksno1

    Herc, do you really think we care if you haven't seen this ep?

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 9:10 a.m. CST

    Why we care:

    by mbeemer

    Because it lets us know if what Herc is telling us is coming from him first hand or only from spoilers which might not be accurate or Herc might describe differently if he'd seen the episode himself.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 9:19 a.m. CST

    10:00...be there or be square!

    by Kentucky Colonel

    While I'll be off Bengie's Drive In in Baltimore (for the first time) my TiVo will be hard at work. Can't wait to wake up tomorrow morning!

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 9:20 a.m. CST

    This episode apparently contains scenes of experimentation and m

    by FluffyUnbound

    There was apparently some back and forth between Sci-Fi and Moore over this episode. I think. When I heard the story I didn't hear an episode number, but the synopsis of this one makes it sound like the right one.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 9:21 a.m. CST

    mbeemer

    by yanksno1

    Yes I understand about the posting of the ep for previews, spoilers, talk back and the such. And I appreciate it when he has seen the ep. I just think it's a bit pompous of him stating he hasn't (and I stress hasn't) seen the ep. If he's seen it, great I got no problem with that. But is it really necessary to act all high and mighty when posting something you haven't seen?

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 9:28 a.m. CST

    ??

    by sundancekeed

    Where does Herc act "high and mighty"? All he's doing is letting us know he can't visually verify his info yet. Are you THAT hard up to bitch about something?

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 9:44 a.m. CST

    It's A Trademark On AICN really

    by Red Lantern

    So and so "has seen!" is a phrase often used. So it's a play on that, I'm guessing. It's been pointed out in other talkbacks that people want a BSG talkback every week, so Herc puts it up whether he's seen it or not (and some people have referred to Herc as she, is that a joke or is Herc female, cause I don't know). I think it's better to have the talkback up so people can talk before and during the show if they want to. I certainly appreciate it.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 9:59 a.m. CST

    Most Surprising Thing Ive Learned from Galactica

    by Itchy

    Richard Hatch (not the fat naked fag (tm) from Survivor)is actually a pretty engaging actor. His stuff with Zarek is pretty captivating ... much more so than Roslin alone. I just find the idea that everyone's ready to splinter pretty ridiculous, given the overwhelming cylon threat.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 10:06 a.m. CST

    Kentucky colonel Has Not Yet Seen Battlestar Galactica 2.5

    by Kentucky Colonel

    Just Sayin....

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 10:23 a.m. CST

    Hmmm, I've wanted to like Roslin up to now, but

    by Drath

    her descent into religious fanaticism is turning ever more foreboding. The "hand of god" justification is only a few steps away from Osama Bin Ladin's evil (I say him and not Bush because Roslin is in hiding). If they have Adama say "religion is poison," we're in trouble because that'll make him and Roslin into opposing extremists who'll never cooperate. Actually, I think he does say something close to that in the commercials...shit, the fleet is in trouble!

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 10:31 a.m. CST

    I Like Richard Hatch In This Too

    by Red Lantern

    I saw reruns of the first series on sci-fi, and he didn't seem like that good an actor to me, but he seems great in the new series. Was that just the acting style of the time? Or did he get better over the years? I haven't seen him in anything else that I know of.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 10:40 a.m. CST

    splinters

    by Gaeriel

    i think that in the most stressful of situations, people will either forget their differences or these differences will tear them apart. Look at what's happening in america right now. We are more split in a time of war than we were at peace. This splintering phenomenon of the last surviving humans is quite true to life. They should be on the same page or they'll get so incredibly screwed, and yet...human nature is unpredictable where fear and suspicion are concerned. I think the entire concept is very intriguing...cant wait to see where they go with this story arc

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 10:54 a.m. CST

    The Hand of God

    by zer0cool2k2

    Is actually what Baltar thinks he has become. So we have a President who thinks she is a voice of a prophet, doing the work of the "Gods" and a vice-president who thinks he is the instrument of the one true "God". Looks like we're going to have a Roslin/Baltar smackdown coming up to me.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Re: the splintering issue

    by FluffyUnbound

    On a lot of boards, many of the same people who don't think it's realistic that the fleet would splinter are the same people who thought martial law should immediately have been declared. Some aspects of this show, it appears, function almost as personality tests. The "people would pull together" / "the military should be in charge" bits are often two sides of the same coin in terms of people's blind spots. Not for all posters who hold either of these views, but for a distinct group.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 11:31 a.m. CST

    Oh My God!!! I really don't want to read the inviso-text

    by Russman

    I know I say this every week. Damn, damn, damn, damn, damn!!! Hey, got a question for you guys. Haven't seen it yet, but do you think that Adama should just realize that okay, they are all wrong but they need to stick together and just move on. I mean the more he pushes, the more people are going to push back and resist. So why not talk it out or take it to the press and the people to have her drummed out. It's a hard choice though.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 12:35 p.m. CST

    I was just thinking about the kid...

    by Tal111

    who committed suicide back when the original Battlestar was cancelled. LOOK WHAT YOU'RE MISSING!!!!

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 12:38 p.m. CST

    by Zebos

    Have not seen it either Russman but good talking point. from my perspective, Adama wants to maintain control of the military. For him, that seems to be the best way for the Fleet to survive. He seemed to have no porblem with civil government as long it stays out of military decisions. When Roslin started to undermine his authority in various ways, he had her arrested. He was shot before he had a chance to properly deal with that, and the situation went downhill from there. From a military perspective, he cannot simply rescind Tigh's decisions as that raises questions about Tigh's abilties (and ultimately his) which could in turn lead to dangerous second guessing of Tigh's decisions at crucial moments, costing lives at the very least. Typical military thought. Roslin is of course in a similar situation. Both her and Adama are doing what they think is best. If they cannot find a away for both sides to save face, bad things will happen whether they let bygones be bygones, or fight it out.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Anyone been listening to the commentary podcasts on iTunes?

    by Grando

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 1:14 p.m. CST

    Invisotext

    by fiester

    There's only really one bit in the invisotext that could not already be gleamed from watching the 15 second preview of tonight's episode that ran immediately after last week's episode.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 1:53 p.m. CST

    SkyOne captures

    by ElPaw

    Anyone else missing the SkyOne captures from last year? Their quality was vastly superior to the SciFi captures being banded around for this season.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 2:35 p.m. CST

    Oh God Wnanahara7

    by Prophet Jeremiah

    It's hard enough to keep the BSG talkbacks about the show without deliberately throwing red meat out there. I'd love to have a BSG talkback without talk of Whedon's new Smallville gig, raping the original series or making all the cylons gay. And you just blasted Zero last TB for doing the same thing. No porridge for you. No porridge!

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 4:08 p.m. CST

    Baby-machines? Like the Irish?

    by Big Bad Clone

    "Every sperm is sacred"

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 4:29 p.m. CST

    Even though I don't care for BG...

    by Pynchon6

    ...I think it may end up being monumental in that it opens up SF the way Hill Street Blues opened up the police drama. I know it didn't being the jerky-look thing, but it's been embraced as Firefly has not. (Ironically, its aesthetic will be copied because it wasn't the first show to do this--everyone who comes up with a jerkycam SF show can say "Well, BG wasn't the only one to do it, there was Hill Street, NYPB Blue, Law & Order, and even Firefly, and that shot in Attack of the Clones...") BG is being accepted as a SF drama because it's not using the plastic STTNG look but the "gritty" look of "grownup" shows. I am thinking this will lead to more straight drama SF shows, like the best short stories and novels, with occassional action, but more serious adult interplay. McDonnell and Olmos are not superstars but they are associated with more grownup fare. So even though I don't care for BG, I do think it may be the biggest influence on TV SF since the original Trek.>>>>>Speaking of which, I think all post-original Treks fail for me because they look so hermetically sealed. Even junk like Nemesis could have been good if the actors were allowed to speak over each other, the cameras were handheld, the lights went out, etc. The original Trek didn't use either of these approaches, but was FAST--think about those old eps, Kirk was always running into rooms and shouting. TNG, everyone seems to be walking underwater. There was never any URGENCY in the eps I watched. Old Trek to this day STILL has that sense of wonder thing going on because they were at the frontier, finding unknown worlds, and the few matte paintings they used didn't look "real" they looked fantastic and amazing. Look at the opening shot of the Romulan senate building in nemesis--a technically-impeccable,state-of-the-art yawn. >>>>>The future of SF on TV and in films will happen when the creators get out of these safe Star Trek/Buffy aesthetics (using plain surroundings with plain people, or goofy unrealistic characters who are more about "looking cool" than getting outside the viewers' safe zone)and choose either hardcore grittiness or old fashioned sense of wonder fun and (important) the JOY of that kind of SF.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 4:40 p.m. CST

    I wish BSG would do like 24

    by Lezbo Milk

    and just come out with the whole season on DVD as it makes its premier. I think it is pretty wierd but cool. Why should we have to wait, heh.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 6:45 p.m. CST

    Missing Preview - SPOILER

    by Nojas

    This morning TV Guide had a link to clip that showed Starbuck and Apollo reuniting with Roslyn. It also had Boomer show up and Apollo pulling a gun on her for shooting Adama. Helo pulls his gun on Apollo for pulling his (Apollo) on Boomer. That is where it ended. I thought the scene might be a dream, but when Starbuck disappeared she didn't know that Adama had been shot. And it can't be Apollo's dream because Apollo doesn't know Helo is alive. So my question is... It said this scene was in tonight's episode, is it? No one mentioned it. Just curious, if anyone else knew what it was about. By the way, I was going to include a link, but its gone.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 6:53 p.m. CST

    Herc's Rant?

    by Prophet Jeremiah

    I keep lookink for black borders in the TB and can't find it. I'm worried I might be going color blind. If you're messing with me Wnanahara7 . . . no porridge 3 days! Pynchon, I think you're probably right about the influence BSG is likely to have, especially if the ratings are solid for a few more seasons. Sadly, I think the look and feel is more likely to be copied than what I think is a better reason for BSG success, the writing. One thing I think unfortunately helps sci-fi on television, is an inadequate budget. While the BSG effects don't suck, the money is clearly not there for the effects to carry this show. I'm not saying low budgets equal good sci-fi, but they can act as a creative spark to certain people (e.g. crappy mechanical shark in Jaws). Shaky cams and shadow hide a lot. I'm not saying this choice was made in Firefly and BSG, but if more money was there things might have gone another way. Personally, I like my shaky cams and shadow. One thing I felt hurt both, speaking Star Trek for a sec, STTMP and the first 2 seasons of TNG was that the money available for effects changed the emphasis from story to eye candy. In Star Trek TOS, no one wanted to waste a lot of time lingering on effects shots. That is not to say I wouldn't like to see BSG get some budgetary increases for some snazzy shots, but I like my effects to be icing not the main course. My fear is that the next Sci-fi show in developement that looks at BSG will conclude, "Shaky cams huh? By God we'll show them some shaky cams! We'll cause a damn seizure before we're through!" and just hire some hack writers with the instructions "Build a show around skaky cam!"

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 8:09 p.m. CST

    From what I recall from the podcast (no spoilers)

    by Chicken2nite

    This episode was part of the original outine or pitch to the network, or at least an episode similar to this one. I can't remember anything refering to fighting between the studio and the rest of them about it, but I'm sure that the concept has been refined since the initial pitch for the series. The podcast from this episode and episode 4 have sort of blurred together, so I can't recall too much specific stuff (and what I do remember is spoilerific) so I guess I just shut up and say that last week's ep kicked ass

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 10:14 p.m. CST

    I don't know....

    by ScaredCrab

    ......about anybody else, but tonight's ep...fan-fucking-awe-inducing-tastic.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 10:21 p.m. CST

    Thanks Compadre

    by Prophet Jeremiah

    I thought I was actually dealing with a deleted post or something. I'll check it out. Crab . . . yup.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 10:25 p.m. CST

    Cylon Models - SPOILER

    by capthappy

    OK, so just to make sure I wasn't nuts, I looked up how many models we've been introduced to so far (remember, there are 12). We've seen 4 humanoid models before tonights episode. The Doctor makes 5. The wiki entry I read (http://tinyurl.com/dpxko ) seems to imply that the raiders, basestars, etc. are included in the 12 models, something I hadn't considered, and I hope is not the case. If you count all of the entries in the wiki, there are 9 models, add to that the boarding craft we saw in eps 1&2 of this season, and the doc, and that means there's only one mystery model. OK, so surely the 12 models is only refering to the human variety, which we only have met 5 of, right? Thoughts?

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 10:56 p.m. CST

    Re: Wnanahara7

    by Prophet Jeremiah

    Hmmm. I'm inclined to give Herc the benefit of the doubt on that one. After reading Herc for years now, I'm reading that as irony (which is Herc's particular flavor of humor). After all, you choose that particular image to go along with the name Hercules The Strong . . . . Could be wrong though, wouldn't be the first time.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 11:12 p.m. CST

    Richard Hatch is great on this show.

    by astronato

    2600AD Thanks for the heads up on the Animal Planet Toho special. It is one of the most thorough looks at Godzilla films I've ever seen. I think BSG is tied with Deadwood as the best show on television and if Adama starts smelling cat piss, the tie may be broken. It has probably been said already but Baltar is a cylon. There is no way he survived the explosion in the scene that is used in the opening credits. Last season I thought that the Cylons were wiping out humanity as a way to force God to show himself/herself/itself, but now I am not so sure. It seems more like the Cylons are just trying to replace humanity and replicate human emotions. All for the best I guess, it would be hard to cast God. Does anyone have any theories as to why the Cylons seemingly let the humans escape from time to time? or what their holy mission is beyond replacing humanity? Man I hope this isn't all taking place in a holodeck on the bridge of the Enterprise.

  • Aug. 12, 2005, 11:40 p.m. CST

    The answers depend on how hardcore a SF show this is going to be

    by Pynchon6

    Imagine if you will a final episode in which it turns out they're ALL Cylons. The "humans" are just Cylons who've been put on these planets (with their pasts faked ala Blade Runner) and the entire situation a scenario in which the Cylons, having completely wiped out humanity, are trying to find the salvation humanity couldn't find, through the gods humanity believed in and the cylons are now trying to find.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 12:22 a.m. CST

    The cylons are monotheistic and the humans polytheistic. Right??

    by astronato

    Did the Cylons "invent" their one god theory or was it inherited from humanity? I do think the cylons are "truth seekers" but Ron Moore could still achieve the cylons seeking salvation angle if say both the cylons and the humans believed in one god or both believed in multiple gods. If salvation is the cylons purpose in the genocide of humanity, why cloud up the story with two theologies? or maybe the two competing spiritual views are a MacGuffin? It seems more like a simple holy war, where the cylons believe they have the one true religion and are wiping out the infidels. Not to piss on your idea but I hope the show doesn't end with the discovery that everyone is a cylon and it was all a false scenario concocted so that the Cylons can study human nature. To me that is like finding out this was all generated by a holodeck on Star Trek. I love Trek but this show is different and I want it to keep being different.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 12:32 a.m. CST

    now that I think about it.....

    by astronato

    ....the president has mentioned a few times that what has happened has happened before and will happen again. Maybe your right and maybe that would be good. Any show into it's second season that still has you guessing where they are going is good in my book.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 12:48 a.m. CST

    and while I am rambling about BSG....

    by astronato

    ...I do not want to restart the debate over the original show versus the current show but a animated or CGI version of the original series would be great. They could keep the costumes and aesthetics of the original show, use the likenesses of Lorne Green and the original cast and take that version in a direction different from the current show. I wouldn't mind seeing Richard Hatch's vision for BSG. Yeah the original had it's silly moments and went straight into the crapper with BSG 1980 but it started with promise and had it's moments. I hope that after Ron Moores run is over BSG winds up a franchise like Trek and Star Wars. I thought I read somewhere that they are making a comic book of the current BSG, a new comic based on the old series would be good too.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 2:03 a.m. CST

    Theories

    by Pynchon6

    That's all they are--I don't watch the show regularly, so I'm sure my theories aren't accurate, they're just for fun. But current SF is still in kind of an "irony" mode, to some extent. Irony is one of the tools of good fiction, but alas, when it comes to SF it's also a way of sayin' "We're too grown up to take this seriously!" I wish we could get really quality SF scripts by some screenwriters who are top-quality and also aren't afraid to be sincere.>>>>>>I have to say, as a casual viewer, there are plenty of clues that the whole show is not what we think. In the few minutes I saw tonight I heard a reference to Zeus and Olympus, and that would suggest these folks are from Earth; the retro tech also suggests we're seeing some amalgamation of bits and pieces clipped out of Earth's history from a future persepctive--Battlestar technology alongside telephones with cords and mythological figures being part of a current religion. It sounds like some beings in the future stitched together a backstory from all of that and then dropped cylon-humans into it. But again, I'm just yakkin...

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 2:19 a.m. CST

    This episode was definitely worse...

    by 2

    ...than the last several. The whole pace was so much faster it didn't have time to feel believable. Rushing the relationship between Starbuck and Mr. Basketball was laaaame...Didn't feel real, didn't feel right. From the opening scene on it was all just a bit off. And they need to dial back the over-acting here and there. I used to think this show was quite above average, but tonite was a bit of a stinker. Freaking take the time to tell it well, or don't bother. Regroup! Regroup!

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 2:29 a.m. CST

    tape recorder?

    by redshirt

    Yeah, the technology is just way too similar to present day earth, a freaking tape recorder? they don't have mp3 players yet? I'm amazed they have mastered fire! Seriously, what was that crap about Starbucks broken fingers? How is her supposed abusive past relevant? They don't need any more convolution in the story. And when will Dirk Benedict have a cameo?

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 3:01 a.m. CST

    The show just gets better

    by Razorback

    This episode had many new threads to enjoy, but I believe next weeks show will be the meat on the bone. Anyone who thinks this show is going downhill is a Joss Whedon cocksucking troll.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 4:35 a.m. CST

    This show rocks, period

    by Doc_Strange

    Usually on Friday nights I would be scoring at the club. I've pretty much scrapped a part of my social life for this show. You notice we hardly ever see the toasters, yet we hardly miss em. That's how good this show is. Motherfracker!!

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 7:12 a.m. CST

    Love the show but

    by Volstaff

    part of me still wishes there was a way to at least get an official release of Space: Above and Beyond. That show was a lot like BG in the gritty portrayal of the military, and I also liked how at the end of the season,they showed how the aliens looked at us earthlings as the evil bad guys ( if memory serves, it was revealed the lizards hated us because they found the Voyager satellite, but a virus on it caused a massive plague on their homeworld, and they took that as an act of war from earth. The only thing that show maybe came up a little short was some of the characters weren't quite as colorful as the ones on BG.Still wish I could buy those episodes legally on DVD though.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 8:37 a.m. CST

    re:tape recorder?

    by Helo

    They tried to explain it away with Roslin not understanding how it worked since most of the fleet are in fact, very old ships. I dunno...Sci fi shows and all, you just dont have the budget to have people crusing around in anti-gravity personal craft just like in Stargate SG1, etc. It's just not feasible sometimes. I agree though, the tape recorder was a bit much...

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 9:04 a.m. CST

    Starbuck preggy

    by FunkyChicken

    Anyone remember Starbuck and Baltar having sex? Now Baltar thinks he's having a child and Starbuck has been operated on by Cylons. Makes me go hmmmm.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 9:16 a.m. CST

    FunkyChicken, you're a diamond among zircons

    by Wookie_Weed

    You're right about Baltar and Starbuck. There's another show called Lost that talkbackers on AICN just don't use their brains for. The character of Locke. John Locke. I urge you all to goog this name. He's a very famous 18th century British philosopher, and once you know what he stood for, you'll understand the Terry O'Quinn character, and the show itself, a lot better. Hey, i'm talking about Lost because we're only up to the final two episodes down here in Australia and we won't be getting the new series of BSG until frakkin 2006!!!! FRAK FRAKFRAK!

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 9:27 a.m. CST

    perhaps baby "Zee"?

    by SpenceJT

    I know the old Galactica 1980 sucked ass, but wasn't Dr. Zee the offspring of Starbuck from classic Galactica? Perhaps we will have two babies, a "christ" (Dr. Zee?) and an "anti-christ" (cylon)

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 9:30 a.m. CST

    Volstaff

    by idledead

    S:AAB is being released on DVD on Sept. 6th, I believe. It's exclusively through Best Buy, so you should check that site out to pre-order or whatever. Last night's episode of BSG was the first one I had seen, due to some raves over at TWoP. Good, though I know I'll pretty much have to see what came before to make much sense of it. Reminds me of Band of Brothers by way of Firefly. Excellent parentage, and I'll be picking up that DVD any day now.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 10:44 a.m. CST

    re : Volstaff

    by Real Deal

    I guess you didn't see my post on the last talkback for BSG. SA&B the entire season will be a Best Buy exclusive on 10/4 I believe.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 10:47 a.m. CST

    Correction Idledead Is Right!

    by Real Deal

    9 /6!

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 10:55 a.m. CST

    Last Nights Ep

    by Gaeriel

    I love the theories playing out around here. That's what i like most about this show - it really leaves you trying to figure out what's going to happen and i really love that. As far as the 'rushed' romance- hey folks, its war, people gotta live for the moment. Look at all the quickie divorces that took place after WWII ended. So that was not so unbelievable in my book. i REALLY like that theory someone here came up with about Starbuck and the Doc - that would make a lot of sense seeing as what we've been set up for earlier... And yes, i love the 'happen before' thing.. that leaves it open for interpretation as well with the did they descend from us or vice versa. i think in the original series it was we decended from them, but with this new one, i just have NO idea where they are headed...but i know i'll be watchin

  • Aug. 13, 2005, noon CST

    Idledead is right!

    by idledead

    It was bound to happen eventually. *dances* I'm getting that subject line framed. w00t!

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Hey idledead and others new to the show

    by wassily

    This Tuesday (Aug 16) SciFi is running a marathon of the first 5 episodes of season 2 at 7pm EST. It's a good time to catch up.................................. Wnanahara7, about the bit you missed: the Cylon Doctor told Starbuck that she was brought in by Anders, and that he had later died of internal injuries. (Of course that was all a lie since Anders showed up later with the rescue party. Probably explains even further why she was so broken up about leaving him to a dubious fate on Caprica since she thought she lost him once already). And to me, it seemed as though Starbuck definitely noticed CapricaBoomer. Starbuck was practically snarling at her at the end of the ep. As Boomer gave them details about the baby farms, Starbuck was disgusted and yelling at her.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 1:25 p.m. CST

    In the last episode, the Pyramid team was willing to shoot Starb

    by Col. Klink

    ...this week they meet Helo&#39;s BONA FIDE Cylon girlfriend and <begin Timon voice> "Everyone&#39;s all right with this????" <end Timon voice> There was definately a missing scene there.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Nojas, that clip you saw is from next week&#39;s show

    by Col. Klink

    They showed the reunion scene during the preview at the end of this week&#39;s episode.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Hmm

    by optimus122

    I think its to be assumed that we don&#39;t see every word that is said between all the characters..I am sure that before we see Boomer 2 talking with Kara that she was already told that Boomer 2 helped them find her so that can also apply to the relationship she had with Anders and how they became so close. I thought the episode was excellent as usual , this show is so damn good its not even funny.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 3:31 p.m. CST

    worst episode to date

    by PVIII

    bad writing. fire the new chick who wrote this cliched ridden episode. And stop hiring shitty actors who&#39;ve been in SG-1 just because they&#39;re from B.C. and easy to hire. lazy fucks.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 3:49 p.m. CST

    ??

    by optimus122

    What episode/show were you watching , something from Enterprise or something?Bad writing , bad casting lol..who are you Steven Speilberg? That was a damn good episode and next week looks even better.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 3:55 p.m. CST

    Where The Caprica Plot Is Going (spoiler)

    by Prophet Jeremiah

    There&#39;s a shot of just the broken arm of the statue of liberty poking out of the rubble. Insert character and dialogue _______.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 4:21 p.m. CST

    You&#39;ve only just realised the Greek Gods thing?

    by ElPaw

    Where have you been? Apollo... Aphrodite... Zeus.... --- And the planets are named after the Zodiac.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 4:25 p.m. CST

    And the reason that Earth gods are the same

    by ElPaw

    Don&#39;t you remember that Earth is the 13th colony from Kobol? This would imply that the ancient greeks are the direct descendents from Kobol.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 5:14 p.m. CST

    I&#39;m pretty sure someone made mention of Apollo...

    by Chicken2nite

    being named after the God, bringer of the sun and all that jazz. Besides that, I can&#39;t recall. Oh, and the 13 colony is a riff on the 13th tribe of Israel if we want to fully explore the origins of the original premise. Of course the original series had no monothestic cylons, so such a line of comparison and such could only go so far.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 5:18 p.m. CST

    by Chicken2nite

    Now that I think about it, I think it might have been roslin during the mini after the shit hit the fan, making a comment about how he had saved them from certain doom because she didn&#39;t want to jump at that particular moment (I believe because of ships that were incapable of FTL or something like that. Soon enough I&#39;ll rewatch the entire series, but until then, there is work to be done

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 5:42 p.m. CST

    No Kidding Wnanahara7?

    by Prophet Jeremiah

    Was it a contest or something?

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 6:06 p.m. CST

    re: Wnanahara7

    by astronato

    yes, I realize that the humans worship multiple gods, I am wondering if all the humans on all the colonies do the same. Just like Earth, the colonies have different races and cultures and I am wondering if they have shown that different colonies worship different gods and if so, are any of them montheistic. Perhaps it was mentioned and I missed it. Have they mentioned if the Cylons invented the one god belief system or did they adopt it from the humans?

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 6:07 p.m. CST

    oooops

    by astronato

    I meant monotheistic.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 6:27 p.m. CST

    by foreignerbelt

    I havent read any of this thread or article yet because I havent seen the ep. but having seen the rest of this season so far I can safely say I like the old opening alot better. I didnt really care about the mini spoiler sequence avec drums- it got me hype for the episode to come, like a sweet movie preview (previews are my favorite part) might do when I&#39;m at the theater, except with the glory of knowing that I&#39;m going to be able to see the rest of it immediately. bring back the old opening.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 7:17 p.m. CST

    Ok, to put the Monotheism issue to bed once and for all...

    by Chicken2nite

    or at least until someething official is stated, all the colonies seem to believe the same thing, that they came from kobol, and their religion is tied to these prophecies that Roslin seems to be destined to complete. As far as I can recall, the cylons never believed in god during the first war (the one that took place 30-40 years prior to the new series) and it could be argued that is why they lost. My theory is that when they left, they found God, either literally or figuratively. Where their God fits into the prophecies isn&#39;t really put in cement, but the cylons believe in the same prophecies it would appear. And as for the different colonies believing in different things, it hasn&#39;t been established as such. I believe it&#39;s Geminon or something like that where the black priest comes from, and they&#39;re really religious. Meanwhile, Sagitaron or whatever is where Zarek and the communications officer come from, which is apparently kinda militant/small government/survivalist sorta deally. For some reason I never put tweo and two together and realized that the names of the colonies were named after the astrology signs, that&#39;s kinda cool. Anyways, I&#39;ll post this and then add something else on top of it

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 7:31 p.m. CST

    So what else was I gonna say? Oh yeah...

    by Chicken2nite

    So now I recall what else was said in the podcasts (acrtually it was in last weeks, but the two are now merged together after I listened to them consecutively on my sister&#39;s ipod that has still got to be shipped off to South Korea, but anyways...) Ron Moore made apologies regarding the production values, stating both time and budget restraints regarding the shootout between Helo and Starbuck and the resistors, plus the high school being kinda more exposed than it was meant to be in the script. I do rather enjoy the podcasts in terms of pointing out the evolution of the show from concept to screen, it&#39;s much more informative than the average dvd commentary where they end up just watching the movie with you, like when Vin Diesel (not to pick on Vin Diesel or anything) keeps saying 13 times or so during pitch black "that&#39;s my favorite shot". So ya, never heard of Fernwood 2-Nite (just looked it up on IMDB, WAY before my time, as I was born in 1984, which is quite the odd year to be able to say you were born in, but there you go) before you mentioned it. Chicken2nite is actually a take off on that old television jingle from the early nineties, "I feel like chicken tonight, like chicken tonight." and everyone does a chicken dance. I think it used to be on America&#39;s Funniest Home Videos with Bob Saget. So ya, maybe I should have just said yes, or left it ambiguous rather than give the decidedly non-geeky backstory. Ah Well...

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 8:16 p.m. CST

    My Useless Knowledge Never Won Me Nuthin

    by Prophet Jeremiah

    Congrats. I am NOT bringing up comparisons to the old series, but I actually like the fact that elements from the old episodes keep popping up, albeit in different form. As to the religious aspect, I&#39;m very intrigues to see where Moore goes with this, glad I&#39;m not the only one.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 9:48 p.m. CST

    Adama is possible Cylon?

    by Moe Ron

    I don&#39;t think the whole time, but why the hell was he crying so hard for Boomer? Unless he was just breaking down over everything, she being the symbol for the whole frakked up war, but I found that scene weird.

  • Aug. 13, 2005, 11:29 p.m. CST

    Adama crying really freaked me out, too!

    by Col. Klink

    And I really didn&#39;t understand the motivation for his breakdown.

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 12:16 a.m. CST

    Motivatons for Adama&#39;s breakdown.....

    by astronato

    ....He just survived a near death experience. His only son committed mutiny (again) and can&#39;t be found. From the first episode on it has been death, destruction and nothing but bad news for what is left of humanity. The fleet is splitting into three factions, the military, those following the president and those following Zarek. Plus, he was fooled by Cylon Boomer, someone under his command who he cared for. If she could be a cylon anyone can be a cylon. What more motivation do you need? Man, I would be weeping like a little baby!

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 1:04 a.m. CST

    I have to wonder if Athena will ever show up in the series as a

    by Doc_Strange

    He doesn&#39;t seem to get enough screen time on TV as of late.

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 1:22 a.m. CST

    Was Sheba with Apollo or Starbuck, I can&#39;t remember.

    by SPACEHUNTER3-D

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 1:49 a.m. CST

    Adama

    by Aloysius

    I think Adama established clearly in dialogue with Tyrol prior to the weeping scene why she was significant: because it indicated that the Cylons could become important friends and intimates, enabling them to wreak the worst forms of betrayal. Olmos&#39; acting in the scene was weak, I thought- he&#39;s been so consistently good up to now, I think he&#39;s carried so many scenes on sheer presence we tend to blame someone else when he drops the ball. Anyone else notice they didn&#39;t quite restore his grayed hair from the dye job used in Col. Tigh&#39;s flashbacks? He looks too young now. I miss the old opening too; one of the downsides of the SkyOne debut is that the show built a following with the UK music, so they howled with rage when they heard the US music. Yet another reason to skip the BestBuy and get the September wide release with the US intro. On the Colonial Gods: remember Leoben guessing that Starbuck worshiped Artemis and Athena? Later she gets out these little statuettes while she&#39;s praying.

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 2:48 a.m. CST

    Are we going to see Cylon Starbuck?

    by The Outlander

    Is that what the second incision was about?

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 3:14 a.m. CST

    I wondered that as well Outlander

    by SPACEHUNTER3-D

    That would have been an interesting direction to take. Don&#39;t think it&#39;s gonna go that way. It could be that Starbucks been seeded.

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 3:38 a.m. CST

    Hmmm...

    by Holly_Wight

    I think Adama&#39;s breakdown and speech about how Cylons could be people- REAL people who are important to humans and whom humans can love or care about- was foreshadowing the return of Boomer to the fold (the Caprica one). And not to pick nits, Wnanahara7, but from my perspective in reading last week&#39;s Talkback, you started up with ZeroCorpse last week by referring to him at your first opportunity (before he had said ANYTHING to you or about you in that Talkback) as a "shit that needs to be dipped" or some such thing. He defended himself, you watched everybody pile on after your comments, and then called for a truce, which you then broke immediately by calling him a "dickhead" because you disagreed with his next post, which wasn&#39;t attacking you (and he had plenty of reason to do so) and in fact thanked you for extending the truce. You seem to have this persecution complex. When anybody criticizes you, you fire off an angry post that is almost always insulting, and then you post an immediate mea culpa or call for truce, followed by further antagonistic posts. Witness this Talkback: Zero wasn&#39;t even here (and I don&#39;t blame him after last week&#39;s uncalled-for shitstorm), and you start off things by calling him an asshole. Twice. Prophet Jeremiah&#39;s right- You did the same thing Zero did, and then you call him an asshole for doing it? Yeah, you apologized after someone called you on it, but I seem to recall ZC doing that, too. The difference is, he isn&#39;t here or on other talkbacks calling you an asshole behind your back. Perhaps he had some valid points about your inability to accept that people disagree with your opinion, or perhaps you&#39;re just masturbitching.

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 3:41 a.m. CST

    Mea Culpa---

    by Holly_Wight

    And yes, I&#39;m sorry to everyone for bringing up that nasty business at all, but I&#39;m getting pretty sick of watching people pile on to fellow talkbackers after someone calls for it behind their back. If I want mud-slinging, I&#39;ll go to a Yahoo! message board!

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 3:46 a.m. CST

    Greek Gods and BSG: Here&#39;s the deal

    by jacobkosh

    Okay, here&#39;s how this works: * The original series used the new-agey idea, popular in the 70&#39;s, that in the past Earth had been colonized by "alien astronauts." In other words, that the Greeks, Egyptians, Mayans, Incas, etc. got their architecture and mathematics and astronomy from advanced civilizations that they thought of as "gods." (Aside from being retarded, this idea was also fairly racist, as its main assumption was that brown people couldn&#39;t possibly have built ziggurats and pyramids and shit without aliens showing them how.) * But anyway, the original show&#39;s premise was that the human race originated not on Earth, but on a mythical world called Kobol, which was basically the promised land, and they worshipped the Greek and Egyptian gods. Humans were exiled from Kobol, and split into 13 tribes (like the 13 tribes of Israel in the Bible) and each tribe settled a different planet. 12 of them settled the Twelve Colonies, named after the zodiac signs. The mysterious 13th tribe went off to colonize a much more distant planet, Earth, and became our ancestors. But some of Kobol&#39;s culture survived on Earth and the 12 colonies, which is why the BSG characters have Greek-sounding names like Apollo and Casseopeia and the Viper pilot helmets looked like King Tut&#39;s hat. Of course, then the original show went and totally fucked that all up by having a galaxy full of OTHER humans on Wild West planets and casino planets and shit, which pretty much took all the drama out of their search for Earth, but whatever. * In the new series, all we know is that the Twelve Colonies had their roots on Kobol, or at least BELIEVE they did, and they worship the Greek gods. We don&#39;t know where Earth fits into all of this. Ron Moore hates the "alien astronaut" idea, and points out that all science goes against the idea that humans originated anywhere other than Earth, but he says he hasn&#39;t decided (or doesn&#39;t want to tell) what that means for the show. Was Kobol a colony of Earth whose inhabitants were there so long they started thinking of Kobol as the mother-world? Is this in our past, our future, or what? Is Earth even a real place in the new BSG universe? No one knows. * Interesting sidenote: so far, all the human cylons seem to be based on the Greek gods. Six is as beautiful as Aphrodite, for instance. Boomer, a Raptor pilot, could well be Artemis the huntress. The thin, fast-talking tour guide/journalist guy shares many traits with Hermes, god of communication. The balding, psychologically-manipulative Cylon that Adama meets in the bowels of the space station and then again in the interrogation episode could be Hades, god of the underworld (he doesn&#39;t look like he gets much light) or Ares, god of strife. And finally, this week we met the Cylon equivalent of Apollo, god of healing.

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 3:54 a.m. CST

    About the Pyramid thing...

    by Chicken2nite

    Apparently the card game called Pyramid in the original series is called Triad in the new series, and the sport called pyramid in the new series was called triad in the old one. This was apparently a fuck up at some point and they just stuck with it. Oh, and another thing about the whole born in &#39;84 thing, it makes me and most of my friends the same age as wrestlemania (which started in &#39;85).

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 4:04 a.m. CST

    I would attribute Six more like Hera than Aphrodite...

    by Chicken2nite

    She is more vengeful and seems to value trust and loyalty over love. I mean, just look at her whenever Baltar looks at another woman, she is full of jealous rage, although she chooses her battles and when to let him do his thing.

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 7:42 a.m. CST

    jacobkosh... that is really quite brilliant

    by BurlIvesLeftNut

    I hadn&#39;t thought about the idea that those Cylons could represent Greek gods. I am not sure if your theory holds, but it is an interesting idea. I guess that would make their ONE TRUE GOD just another Cylon? Perhaps we will get us some imperious leader action after all.

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 9:36 a.m. CST

    Whatever Wnahahahahddhshfhh3ui7

    by BurlIvesLeftNut

    You have some great opinions, but I have also noted that people seem slam ZeroCorpse relentlessly because they disagree with him. IT&#39;S RETARDED.

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 10:50 a.m. CST

    re : Jacobkosh

    by Real Deal

    Yeah I&#39;ve thought also. It&#39;s kind of funny how they allow so much common earth looking tech ( clothing fashion ) into the mix of caprican&#39;s. I&#39;ve always wondered if this is not before the rise of our civilization on earth but long after. What if they got the history wrong and earth is where they came from all along. It&#39;s funny that the production team doesn&#39;t at least try to make their tech and look at least a little more different from what we have. Maybe this is a derivation from the memory of earth. I&#39;m hoping it&#39;s just not the production team saving money because there&#39;s an awful lot of it. When I first showed this show to a friend he liked it but I had to keep explaining they&#39;re not from earth but they are going to earth. Whatever happens I hope Moore makes it interesting.

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 11:01 a.m. CST

    There Is A Serious Lack Of Flying Motorcycles In This Show

    by ZombieSolutions

    flying motorcycles for which to jump sharks. but, wait, i thought Cylons were robots with atari / soundwave vocorder voices? now they&#39;re a bunch of hot blonde chicks? what the hell?

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 12:56 p.m. CST

    I Still Miss Star Trek

    by cookylamoo

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 1:41 p.m. CST

    I&#39;m glad that someone else noticed that getting shot made Ad

    by Col. Klink

    ...I&#39;ll take a flesh wound if it makes me look 10 years younger, too! :)

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 3:30 p.m. CST

    12 Cylon Models

    by Leibowitz'sCanti

    As per the post on cylon models, maybe the 12 models relate in some way to the 12 colonies/tribes. Is there a 13th model, like the lost tribe/earth? Is it related to God? Just tossing out ideas. By the way, can someone explain how Boomer can get pregnant but the farms exist because the cylons can&#39;t reproduce?

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 3:43 p.m. CST

    "It&#39;s kind of funny how they allow so much common earth look

    by Voice O. Reason

    For better or worse, that was done on purpose so people could relate to the show better.

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 3:48 p.m. CST

    "Anyone remember Starbuck and Baltar having sex?"

    by Voice O. Reason

    They stopped before he finished because Starbuck called him "Lee". That really cuts down the chances that Starbuck&#39;s pregnant with Baltar&#39;s child. Plus, you&#39;d assume a pussy-hound like Baltar would bring protection.

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 5:14 p.m. CST

    hmmm. I wish I had woken up earlier.

    by Chicken2nite

    Then I could have picked up the walking dead trades I ordered. Ah well. As for te Cylon plan, ir kinda gives the writers some leeway in terms of why the cylons don&#39;t just blow them up if that&#39;s their goal. The thing is, it isn&#39;t that simple. They can&#39;t have kids by themselves, that&#39;s why they came for the humans. I think they may want to make one singular hybrid race that is a mix of humans and cylons, although I&#39;m sure we&#39;ll find out. My guess is that this thing could go on for quite a long time, not unlike Farscape. And then if they were to cancel the series abruptly on a cliffhanger, they could take that as a jumping off point for a bookending mini series or two. Of course, if they&#39;re circling the drain by season 3 or 4, I figure they&#39;d be prepared for something like that. In the mean time, the future is bright and this could be the equivelant of the second season of Babylon 5 (which it could be argued had too many storyling running concurrently for them to dedicate much time to certain ones, ie. Pres Santiago in seasons 2 and 3, although it all worked out in the end)

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 5:38 p.m. CST

    How good were.........

    by optimus122

    Farscape and Babylon 5? I never watched either series. How do they compare with say BSG or Stargate or Star Trek?

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 7:06 p.m. CST

    re : Voice O. Reason

    by Real Deal

    I understand that. However if I were to make a negative comment about the show it would be that there is so much of it. The thing is for a show that prides itself on realisim it detracts from that. The idea that 2 cultures from different planets ( and technological acheivement ) would be that similar ( with the exception of the octagnal paper and screens ) is highly unlikely without something else to explain it.

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 7:32 p.m. CST

    Here I will explain it for you:

    by BurlIvesLeftNut

    It&#39;s fiction. If you need more than that... stop watching, listening, reading and playing. It means you don&#39;t get it. I know for a fact that there is not a rag tag fugitive fleet somewhere out in space on their way to this very location.

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 10:43 p.m. CST

    I stand corrected... n/t

    by BurlIvesLeftNut

  • Aug. 14, 2005, 10:51 p.m. CST

    re : BurlIves Left Nut

    by Real Deal

    Not sure if you were replying to me but I&#39;ve read science fiction for over 40 years. Good SF always has good reasons for things and good background. Don&#39;t get me wrong I love this show. However if something like the items in this show exist even in the background there should be a good reason for them.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 5:26 a.m. CST

    Use the Farscape analogy ...

    by Shan

    From what I remember from the little I saw of the show (Farscape), they&#39;re not actually speaking English. The few times I saw them meet Earth people (or who they thought they were humans), you&#39;d see them showing you what they were actually speaking was something else. Most of the time, what we&#39;re seeing is "dubbed" into English for us. Stretching that analogy for BSG not only are they not really speaking English in BSG, all the things used in the show have been &#39;visually translated&#39; to the items they most closely resemble in function on our planet Earth. Yes, it&#39;s a stretch but it&#39;s something I made up that works for me. I think the reality is that they use things so obviously earth-like down to mirrors from IKEA simply to keep costs down. I would like it if they did a few things to make the vehicles a bit more futuristic on the outide (like some of the new car concept designs you always see at car shows) and also some items that look a bit more hitech than our present day concepts but it&#39;s not a big deal for me.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 9:17 a.m. CST

    if anyones a Cylon in the show its

    by Mr Cairo

    tigh&#39;s bitch of a wife , she would be perfect always plotting pushing tigh to do things by calling him weak always manipulating his emotion&#39;s . She could possibly be one

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 9:34 a.m. CST

    ZEE was NOT STARTBUCKS SON

    by jtp8000

    The mother was already knocked up when they met each other and then after giving birth disappeared in a cloud of light with the child.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 9:49 a.m. CST

    "Babylon 5? "

    by MaguaSynfield

    Babylon Five was a pretty damned good series ( It had Harlan Ellison as a creative consultant), in many ways superior to its competition at the time (DS9) in its long range planning, intricate plot threading, character developement & aspirations. Michael Straczynski did a stellar job with this series, despite interference from the studio. Mira Furlann ( now seen on Lost as the crazy french lady), Bill Mumy (from Lost in Space) Jery Doyle & Bruce Boxleitner are names & faces you might recognise, not to mention Claudia Christian & Stephen Furst ( Animal House). For me the best actor on the series was Andreas Katsulas, as G&#39;Kar ( a rather reptilian looking chap); this guy did some ace acting under a ton of makeup, & his character arc was the most interesting. The list of guest stars appearing is impressive - Walter Koenig, David Warner, Adrienne Barbeau, David McCallum, Clive Revill, Soon-Teck Oh, William Sanderson, James Shigeta, Russ Tamblyn & Paul Winfield. It also spawned several TV movies, and suffered from a tendancy to try & make viewers think ( always a dangerous game in tv-land). There is a website called The Lurkers Guide to Babylon Five, which can give you more information. All I&#39;ll say here, to keep this post from sprawling out, is that its well worth your time, but you need to stay with it. Follow the story arc. Maybe it doesn&#39;t always suceed, but more often than not it does.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 12:17 p.m. CST

    Real Deal... not talking to you directly until now

    by BurlIvesLeftNut

    You say you have been READING Sci Fi for a long time. Maybe that&#39;s why this bothers you so much, because in print, you have the luxury of expounding on such nonsense. In a 44 minute TV show, I would really prefer the writers not waste any time explaining why they have tape recorders or hummers. That is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard anyone demand from a show. All of you, shut up about. It&#39;s nerdly and dumb. Go back to reading 2000 page space epics where nothing happens.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 12:32 p.m. CST

    optimus122.... both Farscape and B5 were great series

    by Russman

    Not everyone loves them, however they both have their rabid fans. B5 was magnificent with story. JMS pretty much had the whole 5 year arc planned out, he knew the theme of the show, the backstory, the story and more importantly he knew how to end the story. Did he borry from Lord of the Rings, yeah, but who cares, it was good. You had to be patient with B5 and let the story unravel. ** I initially held Farscape with contempt. I saw previews with puppets and everyone&#39;s voice sounded weired, there&#39;s a chick painted blue and twitching all the time and I thought it looked like Lexx so I never watched it. Then one day SciFi ran repeats and started "From the Beginning", so I gave it a shot and LOVED it. One of the coolest things about Farscape is the fact that the characters make mistakes that lead to really bad results and consequences that haunted them and came back to bite them on the ass. (In one episode they went back in time and accidently changed history so that what was once a heroic event turned into a massacre when they returned). There was a great mix of action, story and comdey as the crew was always arguing with each other and running into bad luck. *** I can go on and on but if you haven&#39;t seen any of them, rent them and start at the beginning. If they don&#39;t suck you in right away chances are they&#39;ll grow on your really fast. But to each their own...

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 12:40 p.m. CST

    Simple explanation.....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    I have a perfect explanation for why they use Earth objects on BSG. It&#39;s a really good explanation that should satisfy the concerns of all those that are complaining about it. Here goes- BSG is a fucking TV show that is on a very tight budget so they don&#39;t have enough money to create brand new non-Earth objects every week for the show. They film the show in Canada to save money you dumb fuckers, get a fucking clue. If they had Lucasfilm&#39;s budget then we could get all the extra shit you guys want, but then we wouldn&#39;t get even a 1/4 of the story, plot, and character development now would we? Seriously, if it bothers you all so much then stop watching the damn show already, go watch the fucking Power Rangers, they have the higher budget you like for all those nifty ships and robots and gizmos you idiots think is needed on BSG. My god, we finally get a superior sci-fi story and all you stupid fucks care about is Hummers and tape recorders?

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Farscape & Scrutiny

    by Gaeriel

    First- Farscape by far one of the best shows i ever saw. I also thought i would hate it what with talking puppets and such, but the character development on that show...damn, you really started to give a shit about what was going to happen to them all, and no, it was not always good. I love stories that have the balls to relinquish happy endings for the sake of good storytelling. As far as BSG - Yes, we all love to scrutinize things to death, that is why the message board was created - and yes, its tuff not to do that and realize that not everything will be perfect, that shows do have budgets, that they do what they can with the materials they have, etc. What i would like to concentrate on more than tape recorders or costumes is the story itself - is it good? believeable? Do you find yourself utterly confused as to the path they are heading towards or have you figured it all out - in my opinion, a show that has so many poeple guessing weakly is a good show. I hope they can maintain that type of fascination - its like when XFiles was still good - you didnt know where they were headed but damn if the trip itself wasnt fascinating. I try to ignore the inconsistencies from time to time, or hope that they are part of the greater story arc that i have not yet witnessed - props are not worth being upset about - story arc, however, is.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 1:06 p.m. CST

    I agree, all the outfits they wear on this show look just like E

    by Kentucky Colonel

    Solution: Let them all go naked! "Hey Starbuck, wanna see my LOVE GUN"?!!?

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 1:10 p.m. CST

    That&#39;s no pistol, that&#39;s my.....

    by Kentucky Colonel

    I really love you baby, I love what you

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 1:13 p.m. CST

    Is there a subliminal connection between KISS and BSG?

    by Kentucky Colonel

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 1:16 p.m. CST

    Is there a subliminal connection between KISS and BSG?

    by Kentucky Colonel

    For your consideration...is there something to all this Olympus/Aphroditie name dropping? "You

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 1:28 p.m. CST

    by Zebos

    In addition to above, Moore has stated he wants the series set in a world not too different from our own. Helps the audience relate to world a little better I think was the reasoning. I also think the budget comment was dead on too. Why spend time and money to dress up vehicles/locations/props/wardrobe/etc to look like something not from this earth? Does not add to the story, I myself am used to having to suspend disbelief for action sequences in many movies/TV shows. Recoginizable objects I can live with so long as the story, characterizations, and overall feel of the show work. Besides, many sci-fi shows pass off objects from the real world as something they are not. They are either used in different ways, or things most people would not know about.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 2:06 p.m. CST

    and lets not forget

    by Gaeriel

    Star Trek, one of the most beloved shows on tv, used to paint poeple brown and call em Klingons - yes, your ability to suspend disbelief is necessary if you are a sci fi fan! That comes with the territory, but dont we all love it anyway!

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 2:25 p.m. CST

    Yours, mine & theirs...

    by MaguaSynfield

    You know, there are only so many different ( practical) ways to cover humaniod bipeds. Other than some of the freakish ( and unwearable) kark that wanders down the runways of New York, Milan and Paris, there&#39;s only so much you can do with clothing. It doesn&#39;t seem all that bizarre that these people, who are in theory very much related to ourselves, would have progressed along similar lines in many areas. Its likely the same with technology - there are only so many ways you can render sound onto some form of media ( tape, disc) or practical shapes for hand weapons and fighter craft designs. Glasses are a good example - if there were other ( successful) ways to design spectacles other than the way they are, we&#39;d be wearing them, wouldn&#39;t we? For your consideration...

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 3:06 p.m. CST

    Lee&#39;s refusal

    by Gaeriel

    One interesting thing no one has mentioned in last week&#39;s ep - even though Lee splits from his father and then decides to commit mutiny and run away with Laura - he still cannot denounce him...very interesting character there - just another example that the writing on this show really is spot on

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Cylon/Human reproduction

    by zer0cool2k2

    OK, so we apparently have at least two Cylon "women" who claim to have gotten themselves impregnated by human men (Boomer and Six), a large group of human women who have are being artificially insemenated by Cylon machinery, and Starbuck, who may have had a cylon fetus placed inside her womb. What we haven&#39;t seen, are any human women who have been impregnated by intercourse with a Cylon male (not that we know of anyway). So is it possible that is is the male Cylon reproductive system that is lacking, and the females are actually able to become pregnant?

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 5:24 p.m. CST

    by _Maltheus_

    Roslin&#39;s descent into religious fanaticism is what justifies the fracturing of the fleet. It doesn&#39;t matter that they should "all work together." The fact the humanity is so few is why it&#39;s more important than ever not to hand the whole show over to some wacko. I love the actress, but I prefer most cylons to her character. Now I know they&#39;ll make her out to be right, but it&#39;s fiction. In real life, the gods never show the way to earth............Hey Pynchon6, I know what you mean about TNG, I remember an ep where Worf&#39;s son is trapped in a room on fire, and he&#39;s just taking his time strolling on down there. Kind of hard to watch TV when you&#39;re shaking your head...........optimus122, presuming you&#39;re not trolling, farscape & B5 are both better than stargate or most star trek. B5 is for people who love to focus on each line of dialog, wondering just what did they mean by that (most talkbackers), and actually get a clear answer several seasons later (unlike J. Abrams shows). It&#39;s a little corny at times (bad humor), but otherwise, it&#39;s masterly interwoven and unlike any other show in it&#39;s depth. The first season might seem a little empty, but it&#39;s really just setting things up for later. Lots of a-ha moments! A little new-agey at times, but it&#39;s great for people who like studying history and world events. The whole earth-civil war plot speaks a lot to what&#39;s going on today. The 3rd and 4th seasons WILL blow you away.........Farscape is for those who like grit and think they might just be plagued with bad luck. Crichton&#39;s dialog is always amusing. The characters hate each other much of the time, but one stressful situation after another, binds them together. It&#39;s an exciting show. Whereas B5 might take a little time to get into, it should only take about four episodes to know whether Farscape is for you. Both shows are in my top 5 of all time (Buffy, B5, Farscape, Kung Fu, [South Park or Simpsons]). BSG is too new to be ranked. They&#39;re both out on DVD, give em a shot. I wish I was in your position, to be able to see them for the first time again.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 5:57 p.m. CST

    zer0cool2k2

    by Russman

    I don&#39;t think Six got pregnant. I think she&#39;s talking about Helo/Boomer&#39;s baby which will soon be coming to the fleet.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 6:06 p.m. CST

    _Maltheus_

    by Zebos

    Do not know if they will make Roslin out to be right (at least completely). My guess is going back to Kobol is important, but she will have to deal with a nasty backlash for playing "the religous card" to do it. The way they reacted to her on the prision ship hints at potential fanaticism later. What if some ships are lost because of her jump to Kobol? That fanaticism could turn against her. The most fun of all comes if fanatics for her, and against her square off.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 6:08 p.m. CST

    Zebos... did you hear RM&#39;s podcast?

    by Russman

    You&#39;re right...Moore said that the religious card is going to bite her on the ass later on.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 6:15 p.m. CST

    by foreignerbelt

    HA. I&#39;m an idiot. just saw the ep, and I got my opening drums back. I can make things happen WITH MY MIND.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 6:26 p.m. CST

    Real Deal

    by Voice O. Reason

    Every show sci-fi has a quantity of suspension of disbelief to it. Instead of using our suspension of disbelief to accept things like phasers and biped aliens with bumpy foreheads, they&#39;re asking us to believe that two human cultures a few thousand years removed from each other would develop similar technology and diseases. I don&#39;t think that&#39;s really to much to ask.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 6:54 p.m. CST

    What the Fuck?

    by 900LBGorilla

    Is the world coming to- AIGN and a civil talkback? Heck the only arguments don

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 7:07 p.m. CST

    Unfortunate mis-fires

    by 900LBGorilla

    BSG is awesome- It is great that it got picked up- the only problem I have with it is some of the storytelling could be tighter- and with only a little effort. From Season 1 the best examples are

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 7:19 p.m. CST

    Wnanahara7 & Russman

    by zer0cool2k2

    Yeah, Starbuck shut down the machinery, which effectively killed all the women who had been turned into Cylon baby-machines on Caprica. I was just pointing out all the different ways for humans and Cylons to cross-breed that we&#39;ve seen so far. We have never seen a human female become impregnated by a Cylon male through conventional intercourse. Apparently we have seen a Cylon female get impregnated by a human male though (Boomer and Helo). Unless, of course that&#39;s all been a huge lie. Russman, I agree with you about Six. I think what she is saying is that the collusion between herself and Baltar has led up to the Human/Cylon offspring currently being carried by Boomer. Of course, she is saying it in a way to fuck with Baltar as usual. So, is there something special about Boomer&#39;s model that allowed her to concieve? Is it that built-in closeness to humans that has made her "weak" and sympathetic to the humans? Or can all female Cylons (the humanoid models) potentially become pregnant by human males? Not that it&#39;s that important in the grand scheme of things whether it&#39;s the males or the females (or both) that keep the Cylons from being able to reproduce conventionally. Then again, it could come down to an alliance between Cylon females and human males to preserve both species. Wouldn&#39;t that be a kick in the head, Starbuck and the male Cylons at war with Boomer, Six and the male humans. The female Cylons do seem to be the most dominant gender at this point, with Six being sort of like the Borg Queen.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 7:59 p.m. CST

    by foreignerbelt

    the black priestess a Cylon? eh? they definitely panned in for some subtly meaningful reactions from her this week. I dont know. also someone help me- I thought I liked Farscape since I had a roommate who was into it. But I&#39;ve been watching the episodes in order and I had to stop by like show 9 or 10 of the first season. I fucking love muppets and think Claudia Black is hot, but this show fucking sucks. I am now wary of getting into Babylon 5 even though it seems like it comes highly recommended. someone please tell me that like many shows, the first season can be painful to watch but it gets much better.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 8:21 p.m. CST

    Wnanahara7

    by 900LBGorilla

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 9:32 p.m. CST

    I was kinda worried when I checked back into this talkback after

    by Chicken2nite

    But I am pleasantly surprised. So ya, Farscape isn&#39;t for everybody. It reminds me of Flash Gordon a bit, at least in broad concept. Except it wasn&#39;t on a linear trajectory. My absolute favorite episode that I can remember at the moment was when they were battling this alien monster that would make a clone of you and then eat the clone. After doing this a few times, Crieghton gets cloned and then they manage to kill it. The episode then ends with the two crieghtons playing rock paper scissors into the final moments (always tying), leading to a huge tangent to be taken as they split the crew into two with a a creighton on both ships. As for Babylon 5, I will say trying to get into it is kinda daunting, when it first aired I was scared off by the primitive effects (it looked worse than Reboot on the whole if I recall correctly from my 10 year old perspective) and I&#39;m not going to join in with Maltheus in envy, as the DVD&#39;s are about a hundred bucks a pop (times 5, plus the tv movies and the spin off), which could be a little daunting. If Sci Fi is still airing them, then I would suggest trying to make it through at least the first season. If you want, you can skip most of the second season and jump right into season number three without missing too much (the writing is all on the wall, but it is still enjoyable and helps build it up further). Season three is where the shit hits the fan and also has several tie-ins with season one. Season 4 is the climax because they didn&#39;t think they&#39;d have a season 5, which they did, and that ended up being an extended prologue wrapping up the things that started up at the beginning. Oh, and Stargate isn&#39;t that bad, it&#39;s just starting to repeat itself but they at least know to change things up enough from making it redundant.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 9:50 p.m. CST

    foreignerbelt - To bad you didn&#39;t like Farscape...

    by Russman

    What about it do you think "sucks"? It&#39;s interesting to hear that because to me, bad SciFi is something like Lexx, which, to me, was a cock-tease show set in space. ** Personally I think B5 is a slam dunk for SciFi lovers, but some people get annoyed with season 1, because it sets up so many questions (what does the dude in the encounter suit look like? Why is he in it?) Like many have said here, season 1 is one huge set up and like another person said Season 3 & 4 are awesome - it&#39;s like someone picks up an iron boot, puts it on and kicks you in face cool (General, in the Earth-Mimbari war only one human captain managed to destory one of our ships. He is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives - be somewhere else --- god I love that show). And everything in B5 is pretty much answered. It&#39;s a god damn shame that TNT screwed up Crusade, I would&#39;ve loved to have seen more about the Apopocylase Box.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 10:53 p.m. CST

    by foreignerbelt

    Oh no sir, you are correct- Lexx was complete trash on the scale of Andromeda (though I do have gay love for Kevin Sorbo). I always actually thought that B5 was in that same bad scifi category and that it was a shameless but poorly done Star Trek rip. I was surprised to see the love that it got on this site- so much so that I have considered watching it (never actually seen an ep.) I used poor phrasing in my first post, although the expositions on B5 were also what I was looking for- I actually needed someone to tell me that FARSCAPE got better after a poor first season. To be specific, I think that Farscape uses (so far upon close inspection) special effects and brand new sci-fi conceits (for which they are to be commended, as it is seemingly difficult not to borrow in the sci-fi arena) to mask some awkward to bad acting. I would comment on the plotlines, but I think they are completely DESTROYED and never given a chance by the HORRENDOUS scoring and score placement. I&#39;ve never even noticed a score as a separate and important entity until I realized what almost completely removing one from beneath a climactic scene can do. I mean it utterly ruins the show for me, I wouldn&#39;t have believed it. It even took me a while to pinpoint. Now, I have gone back and watched Buffy&#39;s first season eps before and have been accordingly embarrassed by the acting, so I know that things can get better. I need someone to tell me if finishing up this first season and continuing with this series is even worth it. If it&#39;s NOT, I don&#39;t see myself even picking up a Babylon 5 episode.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 11:05 p.m. CST

    Don&#39;t read if you&#39;re one of those who starts swearing wh

    by Pynchon6

    The silliest response to this is the &#39;It&#39;s science fiction you fools! And the budget is low!" response. Considering the budget they have for FX and the size of the sets, this show may not be ultra-expensive but it has enough to create a world the show&#39;s creators want. The technology is not there because it happened to be sitting around the first day of filming--these were all choices, and cutting one or two CGI shots an episode would give them enough to buy ray guns or outfit a Jeep or whatever. No, these are conscious choices, and there&#39;s nothing wrong with wondering aloud WHY these choices were made. Like it or not, SF is about creating not reality but verisimilitude, the sense of believability. Look at the original Trek, everything in it is phony...but it "feels" right, not realistic but right. Because of the choices made with the budget limitations and the writing, camera, palette, etc. And that&#39;s why original Trek works for people like me (because it&#39;s so basic, visually, that your mindset is prepared for it) while it doesn&#39;t for younger people, who thing Next Generation looks "more real", though I laugh at it for other reasons. (Don&#39;t want to go off on a trek tangent.) The BG clothing, paper, references are not there because "It&#39;s made up fiction you fucking morons!" or whatever snide, silly rationale, they&#39;re conscious choices. Part of this show is in figuring out why those choices were made. I have a feeling that at the end of the line there won&#39;t be some huge revelation (although I&#39;m keeping my They&#39;re-ALL-cylons theory dry) explaining the reason for the anachronistic materials, and that would be a bit of a disappointment. The choice may be aesthetic, but I don&#39;t think so--for example, why show close-ups of things like tape recorders, when all you need do is show a lapel-mic button and claim that&#39;s their level of recording technology? No, they intentionally draw attention to the Earthlike technology. And these things came about in many ways due to accidental discoveries--are we to believe that in another galaxy humans just happened to make every choice we made along the way through their own Industrial Revolution? It&#39;s a weird mix of technologies old and new, and in a world where battlestars exist, I don&#39;t think machine guns will look just like ours, Jeeps will look just like ours, etc. These choices have a logic behind them other than budgetary, and wondering about them is part of the fun.

  • Aug. 15, 2005, 11:27 p.m. CST

    And these things came about in many ways due to accidental disco

    by Pynchon6

    should read: in many CASES due to accidental discoveries

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 1:08 a.m. CST

    About Technology Choices

    by Prophet Jeremiah

    I&#39;m with you Pynchon. I agree that in this show these things were deliberate choices, yet I wonder if the choices were made to give a stylistic "feel" to the series, or there is an underlying logic to be explained later. The reason for the choice could be more symbolic (we&#39;re doing the best with what we have left) than part of a conceived story arc. I&#39;m prepared to suspend disbelief quite a bit as far as sets and props go for certain series (Dr. Who comes to mind as well as Star Trek), yet it bugs me in other series for some reason. I&#39;d be hard pressed to figure out what makes the difference though.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 7:57 a.m. CST

    re : BurlIvesleftNut

    by Real Deal

    It&#39;s clear you don&#39;t do much reading. Nor are you a critical watcher. Sorry but that is about the most stupid thing I&#39;ve read here. " Don&#39;t bother askng questions! Just enjoy the show! " Well good liturature is supposed to make you think. They don&#39;t have to fill every show with technobabble to explain everything but they should have a justification for questions that even the dimmest lightbulb in the box should ask.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 8:09 a.m. CST

    Voice O. Reason

    by Real Deal

    That&#39;s quite a stretch. Two cultures devolping that identically is a lot more to swallow ( without some reason ) than superior tech. If you could imagine walking into a store with a pocket calulator or cell phone just oh let&#39;s say just 50 years ago. You&#39;d seem pretty far out to those people. As a matter ogf fact they might be scared to death by such simple objects. Here we have a culture with FTL tech but their fashion and much of their every day stuff is kind of late 20 century. This show prides itself with realism. So they have to have some explaination or it&#39;s kind of detracting from that. When I was a kid in the 60&#39;s and watched ST on earth like planets ( " Miri " ) I found that hard to swallow. Common sense dictates that you&#39;d wonder why. Well written storylines would supply a reason at some point.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 8:49 a.m. CST

    Monocles

    by MaguaSynfield

    Only the Planters Peanut dude, & Eric Von Strohiem, wear those. But the visual of Adama sporting a snappy monocle is worth a howl. The explanation of all the retro tech is right there in the series - the Cylon War. The fade back from advanced computer technology. A slight neo-ludite reaction. It happens. Frankly, the only reason I watched the original BSG was Jane Seymour. I was young. I had hormones then. But I lost interest when I started having the urge to evac that Boxey (?) & his dagget into space. This BSG - better on all levels, & the religous fanaticism angle certainly seems relevant ( is that still a bad word?). But I jumped on board when Edward James Olmos got attached to the project. Miami Vice was getting pretty stale with Don Johnson & Phillip Michael Thomas&#39;s swollen heads, & then Lt. Castillo shows up. I have Castillo ranked right up there with Columbo & Pembleton as the guys I want handling my murder. Not to mention American Me, Stand & Deliver and Bladerunner. And running around naked on the beach in Wolfen, talk about leaving yourself exposed as an actor. But. As long as EJO is on board, I&#39;m on board. And. Starbuck destroyed ONE baby farm on Caprica - who says that it was the only one? Cylons seems too clever to put all their eggs in one basket ( ouch - sorry). The best part of this series is that the people in it seem like humans, and not the gods they were named after. ( BTW - when Starbuck stabs the cylon doctor in the neck & screams "I never said my name was Starbuck" ( or words to that effect), how does she know that Anders (?), the guy who brought her in, didn&#39;t tell him that? Its possible that I missed the point that Kara never told Anders her name was Starbuck ( did I?), because I just got the Dish this weekend. Does anyone else know? Just a note that rang false. I&#39;d be relieved if I&#39;m wrong. Crom knows I don&#39;t want to start a pissing contest, because this has been a model TB so far...

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 8:54 a.m. CST

    Anders

    by MaguaSynfield

    I know the Anders story was b.s., but at that point Kara had no way of knowing that Anders didn&#39;t bring her in.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 9:47 a.m. CST

    MaguaSynfield

    by Shan

    You&#39;d really want Columbo/Peter Falk investigating your murder as a) he&#39;d solve it and b) he&#39;d harass the person responsible close to death first like they deserve.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 9:49 a.m. CST

    As for not knowing Starbuck&#39;s callsign ...

    by Shan

    ... Did we ever have a scene where she told Anders what it was either? Anyway, it was all superfluous as she&#39;d already seen the doctor with Six, so she knew he was the enemy.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 10:19 a.m. CST

    The real reason cylons can reproduce

    by Kentucky Colonel

    The Cylon men are hung like gerbils.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 11:13 a.m. CST

    "The explanation of all the retro tech is right there in the ser

    by Pynchon6

    But technology emerges based on previous technology, and having the old technology of this civilization light years away from Earth resemble our technology is really stretching believability. It doesn&#39;t matter that it&#39;s "old" technology, it shouldn&#39;t look just like ours once they get beyond the sharp stick level. It&#39;s doubtful that choices about how things look would just coincidentally be the same. On Earth, it&#39;s easy to explain how gadgets created in Europe, the US and Asia, for example, would look similar, since they&#39;re not necessarily designed by people from those countries and the design concepts are shared/copied almost instantly in the internet era. Heck, look at Columbus sailing across the ocean to the New World--he didn&#39;t find people who dressed like Europeans anymore than Marco Polo did on his trips. And yet lightyears away we have people who coincidentally have guns, cars and clothes JUST like ours circa late 20th/early 21st century?

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 12:10 p.m. CST

    Foreignerbelt...

    by Chicken2nite

    Well, as an example of how the show gets better... There is an episode in the first season of B5 which is an anomoly. If you were to see it, you would be stuck going what the fuck I don&#39;t understand a fucking thing that&#39;s going on. But then again, neither do any of the characters at that point. The episode ends with a twist to leave you scratching your head for the next couple of years, when they revisit that point in time and you get to see what was really going on. That was the precident for time travel done kick ass that I was hoping Enterprise would aspire to top with their temporal cold war plotline, but they felt like they rather sit around in mediocrity. For episodes like that (which isn&#39;t my favorite, but a good example of what this show was capable of), and for quotes like the "be somewhere else" line that someone else quoted, and for Walter Koenig being cold and brutal as a Psi Cop willing to extend his brand of above the law totalitarian police work (JMS is obviously a fan of 1984, given the second season of Jeremiah), and all of the other well crafted unique characters, this show is like a really well crafted novel.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 12:11 p.m. CST

    Another reason Cylon Men can&#39;t reproduce

    by Kentucky Colonel

    After you&#39;ve been finger-fucked by on of those giant metal hands, would YOU wanna get humped by a furby? I think not. Also, Cylon men are gay homosexuals.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 12:21 p.m. CST

    Dialogue Coach

    by Kentucky Colonel

    Wouldn&#39;t it be a hoot if Six were to tell Gaius to jump through some kind of hoop (literal or figurative) and he spouted "By Your Command". Hmmmmmmmm? Also, where is the merch for this show? I&#39;d love to get my mitts on a "Battlestar Galactica Cylon Bubble Machine" like I had when I was eight years old. And for the love of God PLEASE stop whinning about so-called BSG-Earth parallels. If it bothers you that much, grow up, study costume design and set/prop construction, get a job in the industry, work your way up to a weekly TV show, weasel your way into this production (fucking the producer might help) and then have at it. Or send them a couple of million you have lying around every week. Maybe then your dumb ass would be happy. Jeezus Crispies!!!!!

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 12:38 p.m. CST

    "The one things the cylons don&#39;t have... is love."

    by Godardwhowhatnow

    At which point I hurled an ashtray at my television screen.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 12:51 p.m. CST

    Certain technologies are almost inevitable.

    by FluffyUnbound

    Radio, for example. The requirements of radio mean that a primitive radio set built to be useful for a human being will look pretty much the same wherever it is developed. And radio is a baseline technology that any culture that discovered certain things about electromagnetism would develop. Guns are a similar example. It&#39;s a stretch for them to look EXACTLY alike, but the basic "tube for a projectile, stock so you can hold the tube, trigger to strike the percussion cap" design is pretty inevitable, given the physics of the projectile&#39;s flight, the chemistry of the way the projectile is propelled, and the ergonomics of how a human being would handle the weapon. That being said, I still don&#39;t think the show has a plot-driven reason for the similarity between the two cultures. The decision is aesthetic, by the producers&#39; own statements. The history of televised sci-fi is a history of goofy production design. Moore and Eick have stated that their did not want to devote time, energy and money to a production design process that would just look foolish in the end anyway. They also claim to have felt that a production design rooted in recognizable forms would be easier for the audience to take seriously. It&#39;s hard to say if that approach worked or not, because although the show is going for a drama audience, it&#39;s still getting the same old sci-fi audience. It didn&#39;t change the audience or bring in new viewers who previously would not have watched sci-fi because of its visual tweeness. It probably did help them with the critics, though, and they&#39;ve gotten a lot of mileage out of that promotionally, so I imagine they&#39;re happy with the results.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Hey Pynchon.....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    Seriously Pynchon, you think they are going to take any time on the show to explain why their tech resembles our tech? With the many choices Ron Moore has already made with the girls and all, do you seriously think he gives a crap if people are bothered by the Earth tech? This show is not about Hummers and tape recorders and whatever other silly mundane thing you are letting distract you. The fun of the show is not figuring out how Starbuck managed to get Cuban cigars in space, the fun of the show is the stories and the people acting them out. You are right about one thing, these objects are being used and conscious decisions are being made to use them, but it is because of the budget not some future storyline where we find out that Caprica is the home planet of Humvees and AMG is a Cylon subsidiary.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Babylon 5.....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    B5 is one strange mixed bag. The first 4 years of story was fantastic, the 5th season is interesting but I think JMS ran out of real story shortly after he finished the Shadow War. What you will notice about B5 is the superior story being played out by inferior actors. Some of these people are just plain bad like the B5 Doctor(dear god he sucks, Claudia Christian too!), but some of them are fantastic like Jerry Doyle and G&#39;Kar. So you have to sit through some wretchedly bad acting sometimes to get through a really amazing story. Just wait until the Valen storyline plays out, the set up and then pay off for that episode alone makes B5 worth watching, this is the episode Chicken was talking about and I cannot stress enough how perfectly they pulled it off, and again the pay off! CRIKEY!

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 1:42 p.m. CST

    Regarding the "similarity of technology" argument...

    by Charlemagne 2.0

    This seems to me to be a case of over-thinking the situation in terms of perception versus reality. "Wacky" designs simply for the sake of being "futuristic" or "alien" are pretty much one of the reasons that so much Sci-Fi is the object of derision by some people. Seinfeld has this comedy bit where he talks about people in the future all getting together to decide upon a single utilitarian outfit - the silver jumpsuit. As has been said, there are certain technological parallels that are, indeed, inevitable. One guy mentions a "Vancouver dumpster" in a lot of the BSG tallbacks. It&#39;s a garbage container designed for mass use, for Pete&#39;s sake. What other design but a large and deep square or rectangular box would there be for a garbage container that must be collected, emptied, and then re-used? Most of what we see as being technology today evolved because we are human beings - meaning it evolved as a natural part of the process of designing said technology to cater to human needs. As a result, if humans are involved, then parallels are simply unavoidable. For example, the much maligned Humvee. It&#39;s a four-wheeled vehicle designed to traverse rugged terrain without easily tipping or be used in combat while presenting as minimal of a target as possible. As a result, a low and wide frame is pretty much how such a vehicle would be designed no matter what.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 1:51 p.m. CST

    Shan

    by MaguaSynfield

    If I only had one detective to chose from, it would be Columbo - no doubt. He was The Man, although more recent episodes seemed to be playing him more for quasi-comic effect. Now, if things turned nasty, and physical, call in Lt. Castillo...the man could kick ungodly amounts of ass. IN the final analysis, all the hair pulling & jumping about re: earth-like props comes to naught - what we have is what we have. And maybe their tech resembles our tech because it is our tech - or, rather, a shared tech. At this stage there&#39;s no way of knowing where Earth is, developement-wise; perhaps progress amongst the colonies was guided, or information encoded on a genetic level...all of which is a moot point until/unless Earth is introduced to the story line...perhaps Earth is still in a very primitive state & the BSG survivors bring what we call (our) technology to us, to be dribbled out over time instead of introduced in one massive jolt. Not knowing Earth&#39;s evolutionary state as compared to the other colonies of Kobol, makes it hard to suppose. Since willing suspension of disbelief IS the cornerstone & mortar of the theatre, I&#39;m for one am willing to do just that until they insult my intelligence, which I&#39;m hoping they won&#39;t do. I can get that at home...

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 1:54 p.m. CST

    Charlemagne 2.0

    by Gruesome Wedgie

    Well spoken, well said. And I think I&#39;m in love with Boomer - cylon or no. Just my luck....

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 2:51 p.m. CST

    Hey Whanahara7...

    by Kentucky Colonel

    Flaming Youth Will Set The World On Fire! Sometimes this board makes me feel like such a geezer! So I&#39;m packing my bags for the Misty Mountains. Hey Hey, I&#39;m telling you now, the greatest thing you ever could do now, is share a smile with someone who&#39;s blue now...it&#39;s very easy! Damned me and my dinosaur rock!!!!PS-Does anybody remember laughter, and have you seen the bridge? (where&#39;s that confounded bridge?)

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 3:24 p.m. CST

    Kentucky Colonel

    by Gruesome Wedgie

    Old age is hell, ain&#39;t it? The bridge, btw, is thataway - second star to right and straight on until morning.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 4:06 p.m. CST

    Dinosaur Rock RULES !

    by MaguaSynfield

    "The fleet don&#39;t like it...rock Cap-ric-a, rock Cap-ric-a..." w/ apollo jeez to The Clash.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 5:36 p.m. CST

    Skynard....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    "Sweet home Saggitaron...."

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 5:52 p.m. CST

    Wnanahara7

    by 900LBGorilla

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 6:21 p.m. CST

    MaguaSynfield?starbuck Vs the Doc

    by 900LBGorilla

    I

  • No. When did I say he would? In fact, I said early on I was not expecting any such explanation. But if you think this is all a budget thing, I think you&#39;re not paying attention. And to say that these considerations are unimportant next to the fun of the characters is to miss the point of what a movie or TV episode is and can be. Cheaper SF shows have managed to come up with vehicles and such, so the budget excuse doesn&#39;t work. What I don&#39;t understand is the weird angry tone from those who don&#39;t like these questions even being asked. If the show was that intriguing to me--it&#39;s not, but I don&#39;t care, the fans really seem to enjoy it--I wouldn&#39;t be intrigued by this one aspect. You don&#39;t care? OK, don&#39;t care, enjoy. Some of us are interested and we will discuss this aspect; you aren&#39;t being forced to read it, so don&#39;t worry about it. I happen to think that if there is no explanation for these coincidences that the show will look like an Ed Wood production in hindsight, ("Look at our non-Earth technology with the Sony emblem on it!") so we&#39;ll just have to see who&#39;s correct.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 6:39 p.m. CST

    As a result, if humans are involved, then parallels are simply u

    by Pynchon6

    Sure, but the interesting thing to think about is why we&#39;re seeing THIS particular object, which has only been around since what, the 80&#39;s? And why is it alongside cassette tape technology as opposed to minidiscs or whatever? As to the dumpster idea, if I were writing for a low budget, I&#39;d just not include anything that would show a modern day dumpster in the scene.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 6:44 p.m. CST

    "I wonder if the choices were made to give a stylistic "feel" to

    by Pynchon6

    That&#39;s it, well said--there&#39;s that TENSION created by these art direction choices. "Why is this like this...?" If I recall the miniseries correctly we saw baby carriages in the city that gets nuked, and these bits of contemporary life are blended it with the spaceships, creating a frisson, to use that too-common word. Some people seem hostile to discussing this like just talking about it is being critical, but I find this one of the elements that makes the look of the show stand out. In the end it may be unexplained, and some will like that (because it just IS) and others like me will shrug and decide "Well, it was a fun game while it lasted but I guess there wasn&#39;t much to it." As they say in the MST classic The Skydivers, "It&#39;s fun!"

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 7:33 p.m. CST

    Cooking Utensils

    by Prophet Jeremiah

    I&#39;ve always wondered why the west developed forks and the east chopsticks (more eating than cooking utensils, but follow me). The coomon thing shared was a desire to eat with something other than hands, yet the outcome was different. I think it would&#39;ve been an interesting choice to see BSG crew eating with chopsticks. Never addressed, just the norm. Those are the kind of choices that would emphasize more that these are indeed "choices," not a lack of budget. I&#39;m inclined to agree with Pynchin that there is a reason we&#39;re seeing what we&#39;re seeing, but whether it&#39;s stylistic of there&#39;s an underlying logic, I&#39;m not yet quite sure.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 8:11 p.m. CST

    I&#39;m not bothered about the Humvee......

    by Real Deal

    as much as the 3 pronged electical box and the cut of their clothes. It&#39;s the little stuff. I realize of course if they took the time to alter this stuff just a bit ( like the octagonal paper ) the show might cost a bit more. I&#39;m glad they are leaving Caprica behind.

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 8:13 p.m. CST

    Deliberate, Don&#39;t Care, or Lazy

    by chromedome

    Including items in the show that are so obviously EXACTLY items from present day Earth/United States and/or Canada is possibly Deliberate with a specific purpose. However, I find it unlikely to have a reasonable "in story explanation" that will be anything other than extremely farfetched. It could be a directorial decision to include some of these items to throw us off track or create some sort of tension, but that just seems odd to me if they don&#39;t plan a &#39;payoff&#39; of some sort--a deliberate loose end? I think it is more of a official Don&#39;t Care situation--they don&#39;t have enough budget or something, and they are just paying attention to other things, and letting this slide in hopes we won&#39;t notice too much or be too distracted. I suspect this is the case. I hope it is not just Laziness, because that is less-forgivable. I think the Humvee is so much more visible and unique, and is therefore much more distracting than some of the other items. It also seemed to me to be unnecessary to have the vehicle at all. Everyone spent a LOT of time on-foot in the Caprica stories until now, and the same story line could have been told without the vehicles at all. Some people don&#39;t mind this, some do. If it had been a 2006 Ford Mustang showed up on Caprica, would we not all have been distracted by that...? That said, I like the show, and this last episode was good. I liked the cuts to Baltar and his half-hearted applause and eye-rolling....

  • Aug. 16, 2005, 11:36 p.m. CST

    just now caught up with the eps

    by oisin5199

    and this one was the best so far this season. I love BSG. To add my 2 cents to the show comparisons. Farscape was different because it was Australian and trippy. So many episodes are even more fun if you&#39;re high! I miss it. The reason why BSG made it and Firefly didn&#39;t? Because unlike Sci-Fi, the Fox idiots did NOT promote the shit out of it, kept pre-empting it and showed the episodes out of order, so of course the show failed to garner an audience. Sci-Fi may have screwed Farscape, but no one could ever accuse them of underpromoting a show or not showing it enough(in fact, Sci-Fi is promoting the Firefly repeats more than Fox ever did the original run). In a fair &#39;verse, BSG, Farscape and Firefly would be on together and ruling television, providing much needed contrast with each other, and mediocre crap like SG1 would have been canceled years ago. Maybe that&#39;s not fair, I&#39;ve never really given it a chance, but whenever I saw SG1, I was bored. I liked Andromeda better!

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 3:20 a.m. CST

    answer to similarities in culture

    by aeryn_atreides

    tonight i was listening to the podcasts of season 2 and i noticed something during act 4 of the second episode when starbuck is just about to get to the car that used to be either hers or her dads (cant remember which). anyway ron moore said that they fooled around with the idea of coming up with something that looked like it came from the future but basically decided who cares. he thought that this vehicle was something that starbuck would drive and so thats why they chose it. now i know that doesnt apply with everything, or even most things, but it can give us an idea as to how their feelings are towards the show having items similar to ours. it seems to me, anyway, that there isnt some big master plan to explain why our cultures our so alike. well thats my two cents. check out the 4th act of valley of darkness to listen to how he words it.

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 4:39 a.m. CST

    The Fork

    by ElPaw

    The fork has only been popular in the West since the 18th century. Before then it was mainly confined to Italy and the Middle East.

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 8 a.m. CST

    900LBGorilla

    by MaguaSynfield

    I&#39;ll buy that. I was just curious about the other, but your explanation is pausible enough. The show has been strong enough to run over minor quibbles & quirks - and sometimes you just have to believe in fairies for the magic to work. Thank Crom Adama is out of sick bay & back in the game. I expect to see the shit really prang the fan now.

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 8:06 a.m. CST

    This Isn&#39;t Fantasy

    by Real Deal

    it&#39;s Science Fiction. And as the great SF author Asimov pointed out there&#39;s a difference. Obviously a lot of people care.

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 8:12 a.m. CST

    I keep rooting for the cylons

    by cookylamoo

    The humans are such drips...and ugly.

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 8:54 a.m. CST

    Ugly?

    by Gruesome Wedgie

    Excuse me, dude, but Boomer is not ugly. After that I get stuck.

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 9:16 a.m. CST

    I don&#39;t know about the Ed Wood comparison, Pynchon.

    by FluffyUnbound

    Really, let&#39;s look at the history of televised sci-fi where an attempt WAS made to make things look as future-y or as alien as possible: Lost in Space = looks ridiculous. Dr. Who [all versions] = looks ridiculous. Trek TOS = doesn&#39;t look that bad, but that&#39;s mainly because the show has a halo about it that puts it beyond criticism. If I saw that production design on a show that was NOT Trek TOS, I would say that it looks ridiculous. BSG TOS = looks ridiculous. Buck Rodgers = looks ridiculous. Space: 1999 = doesn&#39;t so look bad, really. Wow, good job to the folks on Space: 1999. Trek TNG = first couple of seasons look ridiculous, subsequent seasons don&#39;t look so bad [not because they&#39;re great, but because getting rid of the original uniforms was such an improvement that it looks great by comparison]. Farscape = ridiculous plus muppets. The other thing about virtually all of these shows is that, despite the fact that a concerted effort was made to make the shows look like something out of their own time, each of them is very easily identifiable as being very much rooted in the time of their production. After all the effort that was made to make Trek TOS look futuristic, any frame of the show is still obviously a product of the 60&#39;s. They made a big effort on production design for the original BSG, and despite all that effort the show screams 70&#39;s cheese every bit as much as the Love Boat did. Thirty years from now, BSG TNS will look no more and no less dated than any of these other shows [I&#39;m sure it will be as cringingly a product of its decade as any other show], but it will at least have spared itself the indignity of looking ridiculous during its first airing. For me to get angry about the way they have chosen to do the set design and costuming on this show, I would have to be shown an example of a time when it was done better, on television and not in film, and no such example exists.

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 9:47 a.m. CST

    Curious

    by Gaeriel

    I am curious. Since so many people are disappointed with what is so obviously modern tech,weopons, clothes, etc. What are your ideas as to what can be done in their stead... This is not to rip on you for thinking it should be different, i would just love to hear alternatives that are realistic enough to work on network tv - tight budget or not. And i would also love to hear examples of good sci fi tv shows adn how they made the differences work.

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 11:02 a.m. CST

    Silly bipeds & their goodies...

    by MaguaSynfield

    In centuries gone by there was a variety of human artifacts, differing from continent to continent, even within continents. As time marched on, and humans continued to evolve and expand, the differences became less & less. These days, you see people in the farthest reaches of the world wearing Bruce Springsteen t-shirts & drinking cokes. With some exceptions, we&#39;re all wearing more or less similar outfits, barring the traditional garb worn in Asian & other places one could name. As we continue to become one global community those differences in dress & equipment will be gone - a willowing out process that leaves behind what has shown to work best for four limbed bipeds. The ring tones in Europe may sound different from the ones in America, but a phone is generally ( physically) recognizable as a phone. The basic design accepted as PHONE is more or less set. Its like that with just about any other object employed by upright bipeds. There are different designs for aircraft, but the prevelant one is two wings & a tail, just like our bird friends. Its not asking for too great a leap of faith, or suspension of disbelief, to think that other four limbed humanoids actually related to us would, in their own evolutionary processes, end up with somewhat familiar gear. ( nota bene - I&#39;m not using the term evolutionary in respect to anything but the process of cultural growth...we don&#39;t need that crap surfacing in this TB.)

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 11:56 a.m. CST

    More Earth-tech than you realize.....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    What&#39;s funny is there is so much Earth-tech being used in the show that it&#39;s pointless to go through all of this debate. Every gun on the show is a real Earth gun, all of them. They try to pick guns with unusual looking composite bodies, like the rifles on Kobol, but they are Earth weapons. Do I care, no! Do I care that they borrow set pieces and props from SG-1 which is filmed just across the street from them? No! Starbuck&#39;s bed in "The Farm" is from the SG-1 medical ward, they used P90s from SG when they stormed Zareck&#39;s prison ship, and so on and so forth and SO WHAT! Is someone going to tell me there was a conscience choice to use things from SG for any other reason than budget? The entire reason the show is filmed in Canada to begin with is because of a small budget. That&#39;s it, end of discussion. This whole topic bugs me because of all the pointless speculation that has arisen from it. When Pynchon said "The technology is not there because it happened to be sitting around the first day of filming--these were all choices" he didn&#39;t realize that that is exactly how this show has been filmed. BSG is filmed at Bridge Studios, across the street is SG-1 and SGA, nearby Farscape was filmed, and in another nearby studio Andromeda has just finished wrapping up. Because of this they will continue to use more found items on this show, and the only conscious choice will continue to be budget. It will all have to fit within the established military image of BSG, but I can guarantee you we will continue to see recognizable objects from those other shows. Now should our next area of speculation be if the crew of BSG will find a Stargate on Kobol soon because of all the SG-1 objects laying around the BSG universe? Everyone reading this is already screaming NOOOOO, but that is exactly the same kind of pointless speculation about the Hummer that is already going on.

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 2:17 p.m. CST

    What wrong....

    by MaguaSynfield

    ...with a little pointless speculation? No one is getting ugly ( yet) or flaming ( yet) or getting all that testy ( yet). Its just a little harmless fun, a little intellectual badmitten. It seems that every one here is in support of this fine series, wise people that we are, so where&#39;s the harm? Granted, discussions about series like this with broad subjects, high aspirations & grand intentions ( namely, entertaining us drones) usually provoke verbage over deeper subject matter therein, but its a spin of the roulette wheel, these TBs. Somehow we got off on black 13 this time. If it&#39;s getting boring for you, spin the wheel yourself - does the rising religious fanaticism of Roslin & her followers seem to echo real world issues? Will computer technology one day indeed raise up and bite humankind on their collective asses? Damn the Olmos guy is good...Boomer is too cute...who would want to kiss Starbuck after she&#39;s had that stogie in her yap?... Step right up and spin that muther.

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 3:24 p.m. CST

    Whats wrong.....

    by MaguaSynfield

    with my spelling? *&^%$#!

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 3:43 p.m. CST

    hmmm...Starbuck and hummer in the same sentence...

    by oisin5199

    Whoa, was that out loud? The whole thing about her knuckles being broken in childhood was disturbing and fascinating, completely adding dimension to her character and explaining a few things. (Though I wonder if a cigar is just a cigar). The only thing is I&#39;m still hoping they&#39;d bring Dirk Benedict on as her father, but if he&#39;s the one who abused her, that would be pretty harsh.

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 3:57 p.m. CST

    Starbuck and hummer

    by MaguaSynfield

    Always thought that Hummer was an odd choice for a vehicle&#39;s name - although the ad "There&#39;s nothing like a Hummer" works on sooo many levels. Can anyone recall what the last thing Dirk Benedict did ( on screen, folks)? Isn&#39;t he doing Pal Joey at the Boondocks Playhouse in Crump? Just asking. I think Hatch is doing a fine job in ironic support - I wonder who else from the old series might show up.

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 4:46 p.m. CST

    Regarding Starbuck and the broken fingers....

    by Charlemagne 2.0

    It was revealed in the this episode that all of Starbuck&#39;s fingers were broken. In episode 2.2, wasn&#39;t it revealed that Starbuck&#39;s father was a pianist? Connection, maybe? We probably all assumed that the broken fingers were a result of abuse. Maybe Strabuck&#39;s father was a demanding musician who wanted his daughter to also be a pianist, and when she resisted, he injured her when she was quite young. But what if Starbuck did it to herself because she didn&#39;t have the talent to follow in her father&#39;s footsteps, and broken fingers was an excuse not to even try to measure up?

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 5:22 p.m. CST

    there is so much Earth-tech being used in the show that it&#39;s

    by Pynchon6

    I ain&#39;t flamin&#39; I just think it&#39;s funny how so many post here saying "This is a pointless debate, now here&#39;s MY side of this pointless deabte!">>>>>>>>Fluffy, it&#39;s interesting seeing your point of view about these various shows, but for all your excellent points, what you&#39;re talking about is that each show creates its own reality, and that&#39;s what BSG does. Just as you like some things and dislike others (I disagree on every single one, but so what, it&#39;s your POV, not mine), all these opinions we&#39;re writing say is that this show has a sepcific look. So to those who say this is a pointless debate, sorry, you&#39;re wrong--each filmed product has a design scenario, and we can discuss and debate our likes and dislikes over that and it has merit equal to discussing cinematography, FX, etc.>>>>Up thread someone explained that Moore and company just used these items for the helluvit, and I have to say this will probably destroy my already shaky interest in the show. I tried to watch another ep last night on SciFi--the one with the cylons on the galactica--and it was just dull. But I am NOT putting down the show, its fans love it, enjoy. I just think that without the shakycam and acting this might be seen as another SciFi Instaseries (half a season and off the air after seven schedule shufflings). My point is, the art direction is extremely important in SF productions because worldbuilding is PART of the whole artform. Those who say sets don&#39;t matter seem to be under the sway of the hot chicks--it&#39;s interesting how many fanboy crushes are on display. That&#39;s fine, I like Boomer myself ;) but I can see that the fine acting aside, for me (for ME, not you) there&#39;s very little there there. I thought the PD choices were an indication of something higher going on, and now that I know it&#39;s just a budget choice, well, I don&#39;t see much point in watching this anymore. Farscape, on the other hand, had this amazing ALIENNESS going on in its art direction, along with excellent character WRITING, not just hot chicks in leather. (My favorite example of that being Planet of the Vampires...but I digress.)>>>>I really wanted to second the comment someone made above by the lack of flaming on this thread. I&#39;m not a fan but there&#39;s plenty of interest to discuss...or there was until I read the above post about the art direction choices not having more significance. Keep it up!

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 6:51 p.m. CST

    Richard Hatch

    by Oliviscus

    I think Hatch&#39;s acting has gotten better because he&#39;s actually working. If anyone remembers he tried to relaunch BSG on his own, without any licensing rights and in his own vision. He was shot down cold. So to include him on the show has probably given him a rebirth - one in which he is not acting at all - just living out his most fervent dream, which was to be back on BSG.

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 7:39 p.m. CST

    Another parallels question

    by Kentucky Colonel

    Ok, smarty pants, if everything on Galactica is so God-Damned derrivitive of Earth culture, WHERE&#39;S THE ROCK & ROLL? It has been established that they have at least a bitchin&#39; boom box, so one could reasonably conclude that they at least have some type of parallel-YES band, what with all the pyramids and shit. Hell, where&#39;s the 3-chord parallel to AC/DC, mister? How about some DIRTY DEEDS??? Or maybe they just all like classical, after all, because anything is possible. Maybe they haven&#39;t invented Robert Johnson or Chuck Berry yet. "No I ain&#39;t no monkey / sure can&#39;t climb no tree. I ain&#39;t gonna let no woman / make a monkey out of me!"

  • Aug. 17, 2005, 10:35 p.m. CST

    Doesn&#39;t It Seem Likely That Someone Just Frakked The Daggett

    by Red Lantern

    I mean, when the fooltage made it to the air, a lot of stuff that looked like ours just snuck in. Then people started writing in, catching all the similarities. Rather than explain it, maybe they decided to go with it and that&#39;s why we get all the close-ups. Maybe at first it wasn&#39;t intentional, but when people realized it was happening someone thought of a way for it to make sense. I bet we find it addressed at some point, because every episode seems to draw more attention, not less, to the similarities.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 1:30 a.m. CST

    Okay Magua I&#39;m game.....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    Let&#39;s talk about the religion in this show. Have you noticed how quick the fans are to say Roslin is just a religious fanatic? For just a moment forget about all your preconceived religious ideas because of what&#39;s happening on Earth right now, let&#39;s just concentrate on what is happening on the show. Prophecies have been made, and prophecies are being fulfilled, THIS IS SIGNIFICANT! If someone came to me with a several thousand year old manuscript that detailed important events in my life (like my death!?!?!) I&#39;m pretty sure I&#39;d be a believer. Whatever the source of these prophecies, they are coming true. I thought we&#39;d see a lot more of the fleet jump back to Kobol, maybe we will see more. I guess my whole point is that, at least for the moment, there appears to be some kind of divine hand at work. Now the question becomes, is it the Cylon god or the Colonial gods? (whoever they turn out to be, because I really don&#39;t expect there to be an actual deity when this is over)

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 7:40 a.m. CST

    My 2 Cents

    by Chicken2nite

    With the music, it was mentioned (podcast for ep 11) that the temp score for the dance at the end was Fly Me To the Moon, by Sinatra. Moore said that he played with the idea of leaving it in . I would love to see what sort of debaste you guys would&#39;ve made if that would&#39;ve been the case. POINT B: I somehow don&#39;t think that the projectiles coming out of all those guns are traditional bullets, at least the ones in the toasters arms, since they never seem to reload. Plus the sound is different. I know those are paper thin reasons, but that&#39;s all I got. POINT C: I think it was in the original series where they pointed out the cyclical nature of the universe, how everything that happens has already happened and will happen again or whatever. As such, if someone rights down what has happens as it happens, it will then become a prophecy, would it not? My guess is tat since we&#39;re talking about ancient Greek mythology, no one will mind them saying that their religion is a sham. The Cylon God, to me at least, sounds like the same God as the one worshipped by the Jews, Catholics, Protestants and Muslims, what with the whole Be Fruitful (and multiply) line. I could be wrong, and there is obviously room for interpretation here (feel free to blame me as this divolves into a debate on who&#39;s God is better, but seeing as though this is near the end of the talkback, it shouldn&#39;t matter much). Oh and both of the show&#39;s religions believes in the same prophecy. As for predetions on what this prophecy will amount to, I&#39;m not too good at those sorts of things. Anyways, must feed cats.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 8:23 a.m. CST

    Hairy Nutsack - thank god for him!

    by MaguaSynfield

    That&#39;s the spirit! I don&#39;t think Roslin fits the religous fanatic mold...she is manipulating it, "playing the religous card", for her own ends without, it seems, the foaming lunacy that attends true fanatics. She is, however, counting on said fanaticism from others to push her agenda through. This thing about prophecies is far trickier. Some could call HG Welles & Jules Verne prophets, because they saw things that were coming and, in the fullness of time, did arrive. But was it holy foresight, or plain human brillance? Some blather on and on about Nostradamus, but people in different centuries have been saying "this particular prophecy means this", then this, then this right up to & including September 11th. They can&#39;t all be right, can they? "Prophecies can be tricky things - they don&#39;t always tell you everything you need to know..." ( courtesy of The Master, BtVS). Now, if I hear a prophecy that says I&#39;m going to suffer a groin pull at 2:45 on August 21, 2005, they&#39;ve got my attention. There&#39;s just far too much Interpatation involved with prophecy for my tastes....

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 12:46 p.m. CST

    Thank god for me, apparently LOL.....

    by Hairy Nutsack

    Well here&#39;s the thing about these prophecies, they have gone well beyond the realm of a few lucky guesses. As they have been presented, the prophecies do indicate this specific time, place, and people and that moves us past the point of mere coincidence and into the possibility that we are seeing the divine at work. The fact that the preacher lady said Roslin made a believer out of her is beyond significant, that would be like preaching to Billy Graham and him telling you he believes in Jesus now because of what you said. Again, I don&#39;t see that there is any way in hell Moore and crew will actually say there is a real god or something. In the end there will be someone or something behind all this that has manipulated events to fit the prophecies exactly. Maybe we will see the angel people eventually, who knows.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Hmmmm

    by MaguaSynfield

    Taken in context of BSG, I think you&#39;re on to something there. It will be very interesting to see where Moore takes this, and how he resolves these theological questions. Reconciling religon & science is one bad ass frakking minefield to traipse in...will this show be measured by how it ( or if it) succeeds in doing this? Deeper, and more relevant to me, is the father/son conflict that events have set in motion - when you have an actor of EJ Olmo&#39;s power & intensity and toss his character into a blood conflict like this...stand by for heavy rolls ( as we used to say in the Navy). I can&#39;t frakking wait. Adama is like a coiled snake, and each twist of the coils just makes the eventual strike more violent and dramatic. I would not want to be in Apollo&#39;s shoes when Adama catches up with him. But I will be watching, hell yes...

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 3:11 p.m. CST

    re: foreignerbelt & Hairy Nutsack

    by _Maltheus_

    foreignerbelt, you probably won&#39;t like Farscape if you don&#39;t like it now. It&#39;s first season is better than most first seasons. It might pick up for you when Scorpius enters the picture, but it doesn&#39;t sound like it&#39;s gonna catch you. However, it&#39;s a way different show from Babylon 5 and you still might want to give that one a shot. Although that has some worse acting, it also has some incredible acting (G&#39;Kar and Londo). Londo&#39;s story is my favorite ever told on television. If you can&#39;t get over some cheese and some bad acting, you might not like that one either. Really intelligent story though. When I recommeded watching it, I meant Netflix it (someone made a comment about the seasons being expensive)......... The effects were incredible at the time, to whomever said they were painful to watch. It was a turning point for TV and it was easily the best out there back then. A little dated now, but easy to take for granted looking back............ re Hairy Nutsack, just because Roslin sees some evidence of prophecies coming true, doesn&#39;t make her any less of a fanatic. Prophecies coming true doesn&#39;t mean that they all will. She shouldn&#39;t be using all of humanity to see if she&#39;s right. Humanity should first resettle, regroup, and then she can go on her wild goose chase. In fact, I think it&#39;s reckless to be looking for the last colony of man while they&#39;re still obviously overrun with Cylons. Clean up you own house first before bringing your crap over to MY planet. She may think she&#39;s just playing the religious "card" (because she&#39;s somewhat humble), but she obviously believes in what&#39;s on that card and is being impetuous in her sickness.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 6 p.m. CST

    If You Knew Who Was A Cylon, Would It Be Right To Out Them?

    by Red Lantern

    Because right now, it&#39;s understood by all of the humans running from the Cylons that living with Cylons is not an intriguing option. It would be very difficult to trust an encounter with one without suspiscion. But what if, the life the Cylon chose was not entirely the norm for Cylons? For instance, he is really trying to follow his very OWN agenda. Not part of the sterotypical undesirable Ceylons, but one trying to bring about harmony.

  • Aug. 18, 2005, 6:47 p.m. CST

    The Time is Nigh - Maltheus

    by Chicken2nite

    So I&#39;m guilty on both counts of bashing the B5 (the price on the sets, which is less than either Star Trek or Farscape by a considerable amount, but relatively high compared to some other series, especially considering what they&#39;re doing with the Buffy (all 7 seasons for under 150 USD; and then also the effects,, which are about on par with the Last Starfighter if you ask me, take that as you will). Oh, and my comment on the effects were when I was watching the first season, when they truly were on a shoe-string budget without any fancy space battles that made you wish there was a decent video game set in that universe - kinda the same as the new BSG actually. So ya, once the shit hit the fan (which I didn&#39;t get to see until 5 years ago or so when they finally started to air the show again where I live, with seasons 1-4 weekdays and season 5 on the weekend. Now THAT was hard to keep track of, I&#39;ll tell you) the effects were plenty good enough for the show they were doing, but when it first aired - now I&#39;m talking effects wise only here people - TNG and DS9 owned. That was because of a few reasons IMO, not the least of which was the use of models, except when they blew them up. There was a money shot from the pilot of the station that they reused for the opening titles which was quite detailed, but for the most part they didn&#39;t take the time to make it all look that good. Still, when yo get to see those fighters moving the way fighters in space should move, that was infinitely cool. Looking back, my subject title is both misleading and fitting, as if I were calling you out on this topic, when my intention was to write a short blurb and then go on about the prophecy topic................Hmmm. Gotta rewatch Hand if God again. I vaguely remember Six quoting something to Baltar as she&#39;s repeating how God has a Plan. I figure that Roslin realizes she has a destiny to fulfill. She&#39;s kinda slow with picking up on things, as was set up in the mini (she refused to jump away at the end of night one, but then they did later in night two. apparently she learned her lesson). The cylon being interogated tried to tell her that she has a destiny, and at the time she rejected it, but later on, she embraced it, knowing that if she refused it she could end up jeopardizing the entire fleet (by refusing fate, you accept death). My guess is that fear played a big part in the choice made by the ships in the fleet as to who to follow (which safety net to run for cover under: military or religious)..............Red Lantern, my understanding is that all the cylons and the humans are all part of the harmony when dealing with a) a work of fiction and b) a universe governed at least in part by destiny. Sorry to drag your argument into this one, but I couldn&#39;t resist going for the triple bill. Later