Cool News
Joss Whedon Talks WONDER WOMAN, X3, REVENGE OF THE JEDI, The Comic Book Series He Wants On TV, and More!! Monday!!
I am – Hercules!!
The August/September edition of In Focus Magazine has an epic cover story on “Firefly”-“Serenity” mastermind Joss Whedon. The interview was conducted June 23, so it makes no mention of the latest “Spike” TV-moive buzz, but it does feature Whedon talking about (among many, many other things):
* Why there are no horses in “Serenity," and why the “Serenity” characters do not curse in Japanese or French;
* Whether Shepherd Book once did the bidding of evil men;
* Why “Revenge of the Jedi” is the movie Whedon would have loved to have written;
* How Whedon got involved with “Toy Story”;
* Why Jim Carrey did not play Buzz Lightyear;
* How plans to set the final act of “Alien: Resurrection” on Earth were scrapped.
* Whether the movie Wonder Woman will fly under her own power, or make do with an invisible plane;
* Whether Whedon will set a height requirement for Diana of Themyscera;
* Whether Diana will contend with a print-derived supervillain;
* What he thought of Jor-El’s giant “S.”
* His original “X-Men” movie script, which involved Phoenix and the Danger Room.
* The prequel to “Batman” Whedon pitched to Warner Bros. before Christopher Nolan got involved;
* How the “X3” movie he discussed with its producers would have differed from the one that’s going to be made;
* Whether he’s interested in making an “Avengers” movie;
* What happened to his “Iron Man” project for New Line; and
* What he’s planning for the 2006-2007 TV season.
If sources at In Focus are to be trusted, the online version should be live Monday, between 11 a.m. and 3 p.m. ET, here. The story is free, whether you subscribe or not. Be sure to click on the extra-long online-only edition of the interview if you want everything.
(And if anybody knows where to find that Danger-Room/Phoenix "X-Men" script, don't be shy about dropping us a line.)
Were Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader two different people in the early drafts of “The Empire Strikes Back”? All is revealed in The Annotated Screenplays (Star Wars, Episodes IV-VI)
!!
Look! A fabulous new book co-edited by big-deal "Buffy"-"Firefly"-"Gilmore Girls" TV writer Jane Espenson. She introduces each of the essays, and the whole book besides:
Finding Serenity: Anti-Heroes, Lost Shepherds and Space Hookers in Joss Whedon's Firefly!!
Look! Original casting tapes! Deleted scenes!
Audio commentaries! Backstage with Drive Shaft!
Lost: The Complete First Season on DVD!!
-
+ Expand All
-
Here's hoping that it actually happens. I would love to see this (and many other Buffyverse) characters return. Hats off.
-
Whores! The lot of you!
-
What, we actually have to buy this to find out all the information? Lame.
-
Kind of make it an antifeminist camp thing, with WW going from one SM bondage sequence to another, always having to be rescued by some man or other (whom she promptly "rewards"). Use a really shitty CGI effect for the "invisible jet" Screw it...this whole "let's update 'em and make 'em cool" thing has run its course...make 'em shitty and corny like they originally were.
-
Jedis do not commit REVENGE! They just get electrocuted, and have their dads take out the Sith. That's not revenge. That's getting even!
Not like I need to read and article where Whedon slags a film that I love. Of course, he did let season seven go out on the air that poorly written and conceived. So I guess. We all got our faults.
-
and all these things interest me.
-
Because Whedon's *not* a one-note talent...he's *not* damn it - he's not! Alien Resurrection, Speed, Waterworld - other people's faults! Not Joss! Never Joss! He milks the teat of melo-drama for all of us to drink from!
-
Aug 01, 2005 6:39:30 AM CDT
How much payola does AICN receive from Whedon to mention him eve
by swarmy
I'm not TOO sick of hearing about him constantly on this site. Seriously, I'm not.
-
Whedon's take on Star Wars would be horrible... stick to the fanfic, m'boy... also the whole no horses in Serenity and other odd changes to the world have me worried about the film.
-
last post was a mistake, sorry for wasting space.. and sorry for wasting space with the apology but I love irony.
-
isn't joss directing x3 right now?
-
Aug 01, 2005 7:49:14 AM CDT
Not news, but news that there is news out there. Don't you w
by spiketbb
This site is quickly losing its standing as a source of information and becoming an all advertising site.
I come here to be spoiled. I like to have as much info about something before deciding if I want to spend my time and money on it. I know not every one feels that way, so we have spoiler warnings and inviso text.
But this and several other -
Wow, nothing like making a fool out of myself in a public forum. It isn't 11 am yet in any time zone.
BUT my points about the over all change in the majority of the articles here is still a valid one. -
Seriously with all those ideas he listed, he comes off as a true jackass. Like a nerd who is celibate, but not by choice, but by nature. Cause there is no way any woman would fuck a guy who does that much geeky thinking. "Firefly" is a good show, I feel he ruined the whole Buffy thing with the shitty series. Buffy was more likeable as a Valley Girl cheerleader, not some mopey depressed Jewish hack of an actress. Kristy Swanson made a better and sexier Buffy. Sorry but all this talk of Whedon doing this and that, does nothing for me. The man is just a hack and bragger. Nobody likes a bragger who can't totally deliver.
-
RotJ Rocks!
-
So wolf at the door just handed it to you on your Buffy comment (although there's a reason why TV's Buffy wasn't cast as "sexy" as the movie counterpart). But, really, if you're going to bash someone on a personal level instead of his work, get things right. Now, I don't know him, but it's not hard to come by the facts. Joss Whedon is a married man and has two children with his wife. Don't be angry a jackass geek like Whedon can get some.
-
Wolf_at_the_door. Not only did you make a good point, you did it with style. Love the history of the classic reference.
I think the flaws in the later years of Buffy can be attributed to the lack of Whedon instead of him doing a bad job. As so many have said, it was good when it started out and got better each year, then took a turn for the worse when he turned his attention to Firefly and other things. The episodes when he came back and worked on them gave us The Body and Once More with Feeling, to name a few.
When Whedon is in control and stays with something, he tends to produce good work. Aliens Resurrected was collaboration, for example.
That doesn -
Can't wait to read this. Joss does need to get something back on TV because I hate having to sit through another season of television without his great dialogue.
-
To someone I'm sure...but not here. But just know that he will. Just not here.
-
Aug 01, 2005 10:16:56 AM CDT
I did not say, that I hated season seven. But it's not the
by lordenigma
Sorry. Chris Jericho took over my body there for a minute. Wolf at the door, I do not hate season seven. I just find it lacking in any sort of general cohesion. From the slayerettes, to Xander, to Anya, to Dawn, to Willow, and so on. It's just so all over the place. I guess that's what happens when you have a faceless villian. That you just cant turn into a big tower with a flaming eye on top. The series ends well at least, but it still needed more focus. Joss however, wanted to make sure Mal did not get his sky taken away from him. Which killed Angel and Buffy that year. Season Five of Angel demonstrates the full potential of Whedon. When not destracted by other projects.
-
Just checked out the article. It seems like his Wonder Woman will be Amazon Buffy. Oh well, I still have the comic series.
-
I didn't like what he did with Buffy afer the fact he made a great campy universe for her, then did a TV show that was gothic and serious. To me I was not interested. I don't spend my time really caring about Joss Whedon or his thoughts or his daily life. Obviously Buffy obsessed fans do. To me Joss Whedon has batted about 30/70. I like his original Buffy film, I like Firefly and "Serenity" looks good too, and heck I really commend him on his ideals. The other 70% does nothing for me. To me he boasts his ideals like Uwe Boll boasting about the videogame properties he owns to turn them into movies. Joss and Uwe can boast all they want, but until they actually prove something substantial to me, I could careless what either of them do.
-
What article? Did I miss something?
-
season 5 was glorious, where is season 6? :(
-
For Serenity it would have already been in theaters. The trailer looks shit too.
-
http://www.infocusmag.com/05augustseptember/whedonuncut.htm
-
Angel Season 5 was fantastic. I am afraid I sound a bit too harsh in my comments about Season 6 and 7 of Buffy. They were still better than most of what passes as entertainemnt these days. It's just that he set the bar so high int he first few seasons. He was there on set so often. I remember Alyson Hannigan talking about how he they could ask for him if one of them was having trouble. If they could not nail a scene or did not know where to go with it. Whedon would suddenly be there on set and they would work it out.
Which is what made it exceptional and rare television. That it had structure and an over all coherence behind it.
Damn, it was just nice to have shows where the creators and actors all CARED and put heart into it, as opposed to a product from a machine-like industry. Guided only by numbers, market reports and target audience buying habits. -
"If the studio had any hope For Serenity it would have already been in theaters. The trailer looks shit too."
yeah, because they release movies before they're finished all the tim. -
Why are people continually surprised that Joss gets attention on this site when he's one of the main names in transforming genre television of the 20th century? This isn't some underground fanboy thing, but a person generally acknowledged as revitalizing the entire notion of genre television. He's big. Get over it. When Joss says something about the business, I (and many others) pay attention. Even if I don't always agree. And how incredible would a Joss written and directed X-Men be? Maybe someday. On season 7: though I agree there were some weak spots and wasted opportunities, I've heard from several people who have watched season 7 consecutively on DVD that it works much better that way than it did over a year of episodes, that there's a coherence there instead of, for instance, the sense that Buffy's speeches were repetitive. And how could anyone fault the closing moments of the final episode, one of the most brilliant montage scenes EVER. Angel season 5: a lot of people love this final season, and it was certainly interesting on a lot of levels, but as a season a lot of it felt gimmicky and lacked the heart of seasons 2 and 3. I didn't buy the (extremely underdeveloped and unearned) Nina relationship for a second - it almost felt like a different Angel (the character). The finale was kick ass, though. And whoever said that Nathan Fillion is not leading man material, I can only say that I could not disagree more. Who wouldn't loyally follow Mal to the ends of the 'verse?
-
Oh shit, he wants the dress back!!! AAAGHHHH!! Just kidding, I don't really care, I'm sure it'll be fun to watch whatever he does. I wish he was making X3 though. Glad to know he likes House and Veronica Mars also.
-
Aug 01, 2005 1:58:11 PM CDT
Cyberbevis1326: Since you liked the Buffy movie, thank Hillary S
by mgthedj
They threw the script out and improvised most of the dialog. Paul Reubens was one of the few who stayed close to the script.-----later-----m
-
I think I might be jumping on the Whedon francise any day now. Though I've never enjoyed Buffy, I'll just ride it from here on out.
-
all the projects they will never make and the excuse for the ones that slipped by them. These two are getting old with their bits. Quit talking and produce something.
-
Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Serenity, Astonoshing X-Men, Fray, Serenity comics, script doctoring, Wonder Woman, etc, etc.
-
Regardless of whether or not folks like him, Joss's stories about his work on Toy Story and Speed are really interesting, stuff you don't get to read that often. I only wish they'd gotten to Twister... He's refreshingly candid, but pretty much always a gentleman about not trashing another writer in a "public" setting, even when he has an apparent grudge to bear. I think there are weak spots in many, many episodes throughout the run of Buffy, Angel and Firefly, but the broad, overarching themes and the small, personal moments more than make up for them. I very much dig the guy's style and his storysense.
-
He was more actual help to me in reading the article than Herc.
-
Aug 01, 2005 8:59:50 PM CDT
Will Whedon Ruin Wonder Woman for the Sake of Artistic Integrity
by village idiot
It sounds to me like Whedon is hell bent on "re-imagining" Wonder Woman with a principled, sophisticated artistic approach to Wonder Woman. For example, he won't be trading on the iconography; the iconography that is the most recognizable aspect of the character at this point, and the iconography that practically every freaking American male in world has hard wired into his brain and has fantasized about, i.e., the traditional costume. Every indication is that Whedon will opt for something more dignified. Which is kind of a buzzkill. I mean, what fun is that? Plus, there's the authenticity aspect which is so important with the built-in audience. I think he's going to make it that much harder for a lot of people to want to see the movie. In general, I worry that we're on the verge of what will amount to Ang Lee's Wonder Woman.
-
Wonder Woman wears a skirt in "the traditional costume" It's the star-spangled underwear that's the reimagining.
-
Aug 01, 2005 9:48:19 PM CDT
There was nothing about the Serenity characters not cursing...
by reelposter
in other languages. ??
-
"The other" being a badass female Jedi? Go fuck yourself.
-
Wonder Woman did wear a skirt (a *star-spangled* skirt; which is funny considering that Whedon's objection seems weighted towards the fact that the costume resembles the American flag), but I'd argue that the image that has really taken root in pop culture consciousness is the costume with the panties. And this verison has been around long enough (since the 1960s) and has appeared in so many different media interpretations, that this would be the *traditional* costume. And I think getting away from that imight be a big mistake.
-
I mean I know the superhero well is running dry and they're going to draw blood from this stone until no one wants to look at another comic book film again but Wonder Woman? The lasso that makes you tell the truth? An invisible jet? Flag panties? If we exhumed and reanimated Stanley Kubrick he couldn't do a non-goofy version of this.
-
If you're looking for non-goofy, a SEVENTH SEAL DVD is probably available for check out at your local public library. (Actually, come to think of it, SEVENTH SEAL *is* kind of silly too, but you know what I mean.) Silly as they are, superheroes are still around, still part of our culture some 70 years after they were first created. And Wonder Woman is more popular than most: she's the most famous female superhero, invisible jet and all. For whatever reason, she works.
-
"The
-
The guy is an ok story teller at best. His head is bigger than the checks he can cash.
-
Comparisons between Jos and Tarantino are very apt -except most people actually know who Tarantino is. Talk about EGO
-
Aug 02, 2005 3:18:43 AM CDT
I really enjoy watching people try and roast a guy who is not th
by spectrebeeyatch
His name is liked in small circles. But some of the guys here who bash him seem to take it as if they are fighting the good fight and taking him down a notch, nice work. Personally I like most of what he has done. At least Whedon tried to do something cool with Firefly instead of making another CSI or reality TV show that the execs keep putting out. Also he was dead right about China in the interview, in the next decade China will be kicking everyone's ass.
-
I think you guys are misinterpretting him, he's not saying anything about the actual outfit (whether it'll be panties or a skirt or whatever), he's simply ruling out having whatever the actual outfit is it won't be looking like an American flag, and I don't know what the objection is with that. It made sense (as much as super hero costumes ever make sense) back when comics were on the whole patriotic kick and she left her island with Steve Trevor to go help America fight the good fight as Wonder Woman and as Diana Prince, her alter ego as a US government agent. But that whole aspect of her character has been pretty much erased when Perez reinvented her (fantastically) back in the 80s, and I suspect its that incarnation of the character that Whedon is using, and I never really thought the whole American flag outfit made much sense for a Greek Amazonian goddess/Princess (and Whedon didn't invent this "complaint," a lot of Wonder Woman fans have questioned the costume since Perez's reinvention in the 80s). Also, Whedon isn't pissing on the comics when he talks about Wonder Woman not flying or the invisible jet, since both of those ideas are FROM the comics, the jet was in the comics long before it was in the tv show, in fact it was originally a proppeller plane, that's how far back it goes. And Whedon similarly isn't pissing on comics when he talks about WW's rogue gallery, since its no secret that she has one of the weakest rogue galleries in the superhero world, that Whedon isn't finding any compelling stories there isn't surprising (nor do I imagine something anyone will find objectionable, unless you think there's some WW villain fans are absolutely clamoring to see).
-
Aug 02, 2005 5:40:33 AM CDT
"he's simply ruling out having whatever the actual outfit is
by gheorghe zamfir
Christ I can't type, I meant to say he's simply ruling out having her outfit resemble an American flag.
-
There was another interview Zamfir where he did rule out the 70
-
No offense but the whole *Leia's your sister so it's okay that she's hooking up with Han Solo instead of you and also she's that 'other' Yoda mentioned was another last hope even though she's been captured by the bad guys in every movie and hasn't been trained for a second to use the Force and anyone who can train her is dead or dying and shit who even cares because this is the last movie and it's half over anyway.* Return of the Jedi was okay, but not so great that I consider it blasphemy to discuss what could have happened or to acknowledge it could have been better(or worse). I don't love everything Joss does (Buffy was never as satisfying a show for me after the characters graduated High School, and I don't care what any body says Angel did not become consistantly good until its last season, gimmicky or not). But I like his thoughts about what could have happened in Star Wars. And a bad ass female Jedi doesn't mean kung fu. Back then the Jedi duels were still kind of lumbering. It was Lucas who turned them into flips and flashy moves a la Buffy.
-
Aug 02, 2005 9:14:55 AM CDT
Unfortunately, It Seems Whedon Is Continuing To Operate Under th
by zombiesolutions
Whedon, i love ya, but you gotta wake up! wipe the sleep dust from thine eyes! the onw and only thing we care about is the BUFFY / ANGELVERSE!!! this is what we want to see more of, not remakes of better shows. please, Joss, can't you bring back the 'Verse? SPIKE movie? ANGEL movie? BUFFY RETURNS Movie? anything? please, man, wake up.
-
Aug 02, 2005 9:18:15 AM CDT
John Waters SHOULD Direct Wonder Woman -- With a Resurrected EDI
by zombiesolutions
it should also be shot on 16mm film in Baltimore. that would be fabulous.
-
Aug 02, 2005 10:11:43 AM CDT
If you're looking for a rationale for Wonder Woman's cos
by village idiot
Yes, it takes some elements from the American Flag (although the stripes didn't make the cut somehow), and Marston was trying to make a statement at the time about which society Wonder Woman would align herself with upon entering the man's world. And yes, that's not a very PC kind of statement now, and I wouldn't expect Whedon to put that kind of statement in his movie. But I think that when it comes to Wonder Woman's costume, we're pretty far beyond the flag association at this point, and it's become a thing unto itself. Wonder Woman looks like Wonder Woman. If you're going to try to deconstruct and rebuild it at this point, you might as well take the belt out of Superman's costume.
-
No belt for Superman! He's flying along faster than a speeding bullet when all of a sudden *whooz!* the wind rips off his super-pants and we get to see some dangly super-dong!
-
Maybe the dialogue in the prequels wouldn't have been so horribly fucking wooden.
-
Aug 02, 2005 12:55:25 PM CDT
Hollywood worships logic above all else, which rarely applies to
by halfmadjesus
When you're dealing with superheroes, mythology, etc., some things don't make logical sense - they just are. Mercury has wings on his feet . So does Sub-Mariner. How could they possibly allow either of them to fly in the "real world"? Answer: Who gives a fuck? Seriously. But if Hollywood gets around to making that Sub-Mariner movie, someone somewhere along the line will question the iherent logic of ankle-wings and decide they don't make sense. It's the same thing Joss is doing with the WW costume - he's well-trained in Hollywood shit-picking. Yes, it doesn't make a lot of sense that a greek Amazon would choose to wear an outfit based on America's colors. In the comics, George Perez came up with a convoluted and pretty stupid explanation for this, because he also felt he had to give every detail of "why." Since everyone is obsessed with "why", how about this? It's a gesture of goodwill. Steve Trevor is an American pilot. Diana is returning with him to America as an ambassador. The Amazons want her to make a good impression on first sight - thus, the costume modeled after her host nation's colors. Once Diana's there, she decides her values of freedom, liberty, and so on are most closely modeled by the U.S., so she wears the colors out of respect for that. This is pretty much how they did it in the old Lynda Carter TV show, actually. Simple - doesn't require a lot to explain, maybe two lines of dialog, tops. Wonder Woman is a patriotic superhero - she has been for sixty-plus years. She was conceived as such by William Marston. It'd be about the same as deciding to do a Captain America movie, then going, in that liberal, self-loathing way of Hollywood, "Does he really HAVE to be wearing the American flag?" Yes, he does. Otherwise, what's the fucking point? "Fighting for the red white and blue." That's how the song goes, Joss - don't be an asshole.
-
one-note cliches, removal of all emotional resonance? Sounds like the prequels to me... And are you even aware of the premise of Firefly? Or is it just a tautology that a criminal with a ship + sarcasm = Han Solo?
-
That's cool no biggy. It's just a bit stupid to bitch when you don't know what your talking about Douche MD.
-
So we already now you don't the shows Douche MD, why are you still proving the point?
-
"know you don't watch the shows"
-
Hate Whedon all you want, but Lucas DID give the Jedi more martial art moves in the prequels. Luke flipped once or twice in the original movies, but you'd have to be a fucking idiot to say that that gels with the choreographed and sometimes computer assisted fights in the new movies. I never said Buffy fights were superior at all, or even that I disliked prequel fights, so don't put words in my mouth you ignorant slut! And every charge you make about Whedon's lack of creativity could be thrown at Lucas and be just as wrong--except for the pop culture refs, for that we get tubular original sayings like "wizard!"
-
BTW, Joss - nothing you're going to come up with in the way of a WW movie villain will hold a candle to Ares, realized on-screen in all his George Perez designed glory. Just so you know ahead of time that you're starting with an inferior concept. Isn't it wisest to go with "best" as opposed to "yours"? Just checking. Admittedly, WW's rogue's gallery isn't as strong as Batman's, but there's plenty of interesting villains there to choose from - Ares being foremost among them, in my opinion. Cheetah, Circe, Silver Swan, Dr. Psycho - that's enough to get you through a movie trilogy right there. Don't even have to scrape for Angle Man or Egg Fu. Don't have to risk the potential on-screen hilarity of Giganta. Ego will fuck you up, Joss. It's the wrong road to go down. Service the character and her long history, not your own arbitrary logic or impulses. I realize it's a God-thing with Hollywood creatives, but you should still be able to express yourself while operating within the framework. Put your personal stamp on something else - give this one to the WW fans, how 'bout? You'll feel better about it in the long run.
-
Aug 02, 2005 2:08:42 PM CDT
Funny, I always thought Firefly was aping "Cowboy Bebop"...
by superhero
But maybe it's a combination of Bebop and Star Wars...
-
You got the brother & sister Ross = Luke because he is the brother, and Monica = Leia because she is the sister; Phoebe = ObiWan because she's always talking about karma and spirituality and stuff; the duck & chick = C3P0 & R2D2 because they are just there for comedic relief; Joey = Han Solo because he has delusions of grandeur but tends to sabottage his own successes; Chandler = Chewbacca because he is Joey's sidekick; Rachel = Grand Muff Tarkin because... oh, it's Moff...never mind. In that case, Rachel = Darth Vader because while there is a connection between her and Luke, they are mostly at odds. Next up, how Star Wars ripped-off The Facts of Life.
-
Aug 02, 2005 2:16:01 PM CDT
Joss Whedon's nuts are not big enough for every fanboy to sw
by xxredflyxx
wurd.
-
Aug 02, 2005 2:17:25 PM CDT
"China is going to be the greatest world power on the planet wit
by mclennon
So in the next 4 and half years China will take us over? I'll take that bet pal, that's a small amount of time for such a huge shift. Joss says things like this, and can't stand the sight of Star Spangled panties because he is such a die-hard lib. The last season of Buffy suffered because he thought it was a good time to use his awesome show for a metaphoric attack on the current administration... I mean there is a time and place for that type of thing and it ain't on Buffy. I still love him though.
-
I never said Buffy influenced SW, but don't let that get in your way, bitch.
-
When I said "a la." Sorry, I meant both had more gymnastics than the original trilogy, not that one influenced the other. But you're still being a bitch, Douche. ;P
-
You can tell how much of an innovator he is by his vast successful body of work outside of the SW franchise.
-
Rimmer has no courage, Kryten has no heart, Cat has no brain, and Lister is just trying to get home.
-
So Douche hates Whedon because he draws influences from known genres and uses them to serve his story. WOW! I guess he took that page right out of Lucas's bag considering SW is complete rip-off of the old Buck Rogers....right down to the scrolling credits and all. I'm as big of a SW fan as they come and even I know that Lucas drew influences from all kinds of genres when he created SW. But you keep up the good work because all Whedon TB's lack a good troll such as yourself. No one here said that Buffy influenced SW, if they did they are crazy to think so! You don't like Whedon's work and that's fine, but to complain about the man because he draws influences from other genres is just retarded.
-
Aug 02, 2005 3:43:43 PM CDT
Star Wars Was An Original Take On A Multitude of Other Hero Tale
by zombiesolutions
so it was both ground breaking and original AND highly derivative of about a million other sources. it was also both utterly brilliant and profoundly silly. these paradoxes would help to explain why it has become such a part of the collective pop-concious. on the other hand, does anyone even remember the Matrix? oh, but on topic -- BUFFY GOOD! ANGEL GOOD! SPIKE Movie? WHERE THE HECK IS IT?! and SERENTIY -- WHO CARES!!! (COWBOY BEEBOP was and is better.) WONDER WOMAN? hmm. i'm curious, but, i really just wanta the more de BUFFY- and de ANGEL- Verses.
-
You must love one and hate the other! And don't even mention Lord of the Rings or The Matrix. BTW, the link's down.
-
Nevermind that thing about the link.
-
I think if you removed the "a la Buffy" from your statement, you'd be a little closer to the mark. I believe your contention is that the fast-paced, MTV style fighting we get now influenced the prequel duels (which I pretty much agree with), but Buffy didn't come out until '97 (the TV series--no one paid attention to the movie), while Lucas was already writing Episode I in '95. Maybe he felt the heat from Buffy for Episodes II and III--I doubt it--but he'd already really established the dueling tone in I. Anyway, that's all.
-
Aug 02, 2005 4:37:08 PM CDT
Has Anyone Ever Referred To Firefly As CATTLESTAR GALACTICA?
by prophet jeremiah
Just wondering. If not, I'm heading down to the copyright office.
-
Cattlecar Galactica
-
Normally I try to stay out of these little quibbles, but, under the circumstances, I just can
-
Aug 02, 2005 4:53:42 PM CDT
"that the fast-paced, MTV style fighting we get now influenced t
by i dunno
That's bullshiat. The jedi in the prequels were always supposed to be faster and more powerful than in the OT. As for Mtv, Lucas is one of the ONLY directors who can films a fight scene without using blurry closeups and quick Mtv cuts.
-
Thanks Douche for informing me that I am Whedonite, at least I know why my knees are so sore now! So if you hate Whedon so much and his cult following, than why are you in a Whedon TB? Is someone forcing you to be here or to watch anything Whedon does? Since I don't really like Buffy or Angel, I am no expert on his work but Firefly is entertaining sci-fi with humor, which is a rare find nowadays. Now I haven't watched Firefly 300 times like I have watched Star Wars over the years, but I will be there for Serenity and will likely watch it several times over. So I guess that makes me a Whedonite!
-
I was spending the money already. And double dammit because Cattlecar is better than mine.
-
I truly believe Lucas did want to show the Jedi as great and glorious warriors far beyond Luke and crippled Vader, but he was also absolutely aware of what was going on in the world around him. He wanted to make the best damn swordfight ever filmed, and the way to do that now is "faster, faster, faster." No, he doesn't shoot like former music video directors, but he absolutely looks around at where the bar is set, then tries to raise it. And don't get me wrong, I love all three prequels, faults and all.
-
Because we're fans of WONDER WOMAN, and we don't want to see her turned into a Buffy clone like every other Whedon idea. Seriously, look at everything he does: He ALWAYS has to have a badass little chick who kicks ass with lame martial arts. He ALWAYS has snarky dialogue with cheap pop-culture references (and his crap won't stand the test of time. Watch Buffy in 15 years with some teenagers and watch them scratch their heads at the dated references). He ALWAYS has huge sections of his script dedicated to the main cast sitting around/standing around shooting the shit and making clever comments to each other, followed by a quick choreographed fight scene, followed by a wind-down where everything is explained for the dumber viewers. He's a one-trick pony. This has nothing to do with Lucas. This is about Joss and his almost-certainly rotten version of Wonder Woman which completely crushes what the Wonder Woman fans want. The Whedon fans aren't fans of Wonder Woman, and all they seem to want is a Buffy or Spike movie. The Wonder Woman fans aren't fond of what Whedon's doing to Wonder Woman. So WHY is he on this project? GIVE HIM A DAMNED BUFFY MOVIE and keep him away from comic book movies, unless it's something like Black Widow (which he might actually be able to pull off). Wonder Woman isn't a snarky young woman who practices martial arts in a non-American flag costume. He's not making Wonder Woman: He's making Buffy the Amazon Princess.
-
I think you're just about totally off on your post, but you're entitled to be skeptical right up and through the making of the film. I actually think you'll be surprised, that Joss isn't doing the "same old thing" with Wonder Woman. Anyway, the only thing I wanted to counter was that Whedon and Co. used no pop culture references in Firefly and, I'm assuming, Serenity. Whedon himself has said he was getting pigeon-holed as "that guy", the Kevin Williamson-type who only writes pop culture dialogue. The man knows how to serve his story. And as for the "snarky" dialogue--while it might not ring true for you, I find most of it to be incredibly clever, poignant and very telling of each character. You don't have to love the guy, I just ask that you don't dismiss him outright because of an over-zealous fanbase.
-
zerocorpse, I don't think you can really back up your statements about Joss ALWAYS doing something on his shows. Have you even seen the Emmy nominated episodes, which certainly did not have snark or sometimes even ass-kicking? Or perhaps that the ass-kicking was metaphorical for the struggles of adolescence? Or is that too deep for you? Some of these Whedon hating arguments are just ridiculous. He's a major figure in the genre world whose shown he has chops and can get the job done, yet he's not allowed to speculate about what he might do on another franchise, while all the fanboys here who have not produced anything, CAN? Hypocritical much? (sorry, was that too snarky?) Sure, both Lucas and Whedon pulled from a multitude of sources for their particular vision. But they also both created something that was more than the sum of its parts in a way that American audiences hadn't seen on a large scale, resulting in franchises that were truly unique. You could say the same about Roddenberry. Or Rowling. Or (gasp!) the Wachowskis. Or Lee and Kirby. Whether you like one or the other more is simply a matter of taste, or what mood you're in. But no one can deny that these people have created something lasting that was also important for its time.
-
......is exactly why Whedonites are considered to be such dickwads.
-
Not one damn thing, so I really doubt there's some contingent of Wonder Woman fans out there just griping about all the things Whedon's doing to Wonder Woman. If you don't like the fact that she won't be wearing an American flag costume, that's fine, and expected as I've yet to see a comic book movie where some portion of the fan base doesn't have problems with the costume, though if you can't see there's another side to that complaint that's just limited. And if you don't like Whedon that's fine too. But past that, any objections you have on WW past not having a stars and spangled costume are imagined since, again, Whedon has not done anything at all with Wonder Woman, and though its neither here nor there, since again, Whedon has done nothing with WW yet, in the comics she is highly trained and practiced in martial arts.
-
how can you say it's not possible to like them both? both are splendid, clever (well, the original movies) and loverly fun. as FAITH might say -- they're both 5 by 5.
-
He is over generalizing, but I can see where he is coming from, and I have similar fears.
-
Everyone keeps comparing Whedon to him. Is the guy good or does he suck? Is he involved in television in some way?
-
Aug 02, 2005 8:40:23 PM CDT
A smarter way to approach comic book adaptations would be to con
by halfmadjesus
I'd be willing to give Whedon more benefit of the doubt if he weren't - by his own admission - not really a DC guy. It's not like Joss has any connection with Wonder Woman like Sam Raimi had with Spider-Man. Therefore, he can't approach the character or material from the POV of a fan like Raimi did. Richard Donner, too, was directly a fan of the Superman comics, and fought to maintain a semblance to them. JW may be a comic book fan, but Wonder Woman isn't X-Men. Deciding you kind of like Wonder Woman after the pitch meeting with Joel Silver, but there's just some things that aren't working for you about the concept and you're going to have to compulsively tweak them, starting with the costume and her villains - that's not really a match made in heaven from where I'm standing. Where's the guy or gal in Hollywood who can say, "Yes, I watched the TV show, love the iconography and mythology of the character, have read the comics, really like everything Wonder Woman represents, and want to pull off a worthy adaptation that all her fans over the past 60-odd years can be proud of." Where's that person? I'm sure they exist. Joss Whedon could probably be that person if he weren't too busy applying logic to superheroes. Anyway, anyone who thinks Wonder Woman doesn't have fans - like wolf at the door, there - is a fucking tosser, in my opinion. There are about three or four iconic superheroes, and Wonder Woman is one of them. Bottom line: The most successful comic book adaptations - financially and artistically - are the ones that took great pains to present as much of the comic mythology as possible, including an almost slavish effort to get the costume spot-on. That's fact, kids, not opinion. If you start off thinking you have better visual or story ideas that need priority in your "re-imagining" of the concept, you're walking into a potential minefield. Why do it? Just...why? I'll tell you why - so you can later be interviewed and tell the person, "That's my bit...I created that character...that was my idea...I wrote that dialog...that costume was my design, etc." In Hollywood, you gotta piss on everything to mark your territory.
-
Go to your room. Go to your room. WILL you go to your ROOM? And I'll PM you about the thing at the place in the what'sit when I read it tomorrow.
-
Good post, but remember that Mark Steven Johnson was a Daredevil nut, Tim Story loved Fantastic Four and Brett Ratner is a hug X-Men fan (I still hold out hope for that last one). I like the mentality, but it does depend on a filmmaker's talent. The "fan" thing is a nice bonus. Look at Bryan Singer on Superman. That guy's bringing the goods, regardless of what homophobic TalkBackers want to make it (the skeptical lot, I give their due--not the homophobes).
-
I actually love Wonder Woman. Next to Superman, she is my FAVORITE DC hero. That's right, I like her better than Batman. When I was a kid I spazzed the fuck out when I saw a commercial for a Wonder Woman TV movie, and all I got was that weird piece of shit with Kathy Lee Crosby. Whoa that was strange. I love the TV show that followed. I love Lynda Carter. I love the genesis of the character... from subtle encouragement of dominant female S&M to todays beautifully iconic warrior princess trapped between the world of man and GREEK FUCKING GODS. Wonder Woman is unlike any other super hero out there, and she could kick anyone's ass except maybe the Hulk and Supes. And I am not the only one who loves her. I do have concerns that Joss will flub this. Not because I don't think he is a talented writer... I am just afraid the tone of this will be more comic than epic. And more TV and movie. But I don't even lay the potential failure of this movie at Joss' feet... no that burden belongs to Joel Silver. He has time and again shown a complete lack of understanding for this character that is disheartening to say the least. Fuck'm all I say. Or something.
-
I'd argue in the cases of Johnson, Story, and Ratner - it is a matter of talent, like you say. None of those guys had, or arguably have, the ability to make something great no matter how devoted to the material they choose to be. Now, that could be a matter of experience rather than ability, too. Maybe MSJ just wasn't ready to make Daredevil yet. Obviously, he didn't know enough to service the story first, above tossing in multiple storylines and half-defined characters. He chose to try and cram ALL the stuff from the comics he liked into one movie, whether or not the end result was coherent. I find something admirable about that, though, and respect Johnson for trying even though I'm not a fan of his movie. And the things in that swirling mess of a film I like are the bits truest to the comic books - not the gay fetish biker wear or DD as a cold-blooded vigilante so much. Anyhow, I'd agree the magic formula is a combo of fidelity to the source material and talent - but if you just have one of the two, or too little of either, you're in risky territory. It's enough to acknowledge that staying true to the comics - including the visual image of a long-standing character like Wonder Woman - is a part of the equation. Whedon's talent won't be enough to overcome everything if he strays too far off the track. I think I can say that definitively.
-
The simple fact that Whedon doesn't want to make the costume look too much like an American flag doesn't mean that her costume utimately won't be something that still very much looks like Wonder Woman, in fact he says just as much in the interview, nor does any of what he says indicate that he's going to be straying too far from the comic. X-men's costumes or Spidey's organic web shooters are much bigger changes in my mind than simply not having star spangled panties, but I think both changes were the right choice and the movies worked extremely well as adaptations.
-
He gets comparisons to Whedon partly because they both have a way with snappy dialogue. He directed Pulp Fiction and the Kill Bill movies. Now on to Wonder Woman. I don't know why this bothers me, but altering the costume does. But I've often thought that a period piece Wonder Woman movie fighting the Nazis would be a fun choice. For so many reasons, I'm pretty sure that's not the version we're going to get. The two heros I identify with the flag are Captain America and Wonder Woman. The costume is that iconic as far as I'm concerned. I'm not even sure why a change is necessary. Is there some concern that this could hurt global box office motivating this?
-
Good post, and I agree. Whedon is clearly a pretty talented guy and he seems to have a really interesting angle on the character of Wonder Woman. And like him or not, folks can't say he doesn't fully commit to a project. He rides the thing out, crafts the whole story, sees it through. His take on Wonder Woman might be different than the more "traidional" iterations, but I would argue that for as prominent an icon as Wonder Woman is, many folks DON'T really know her. Most "mainstream" folks only know bits and pieces of Wonder Woman from the Lynda Carter show and an issue or two of the comics. I would say most folks couldn't tell you exactly what her powers are or what her real name is. I'm a comic guy and I've never followed her. That said, if Whedon goes in a "new" direction with her character, it may piss off a very small contingent of fanboys (much smaller, I would assert, than Batman, Superman and Spider-Man), but it may strike an interesting note with more "middle of the road" audiences. I'm expecting to see Whedon do a faithful adaptation, and by that I mean to the SPIRIT of the comics more than the specific details. It will be a different beast and a different Wonder Woman, but I very much feel the core will be the same and quite solid.
-
I'm not some frothing fanboy calling for Whedon's head by any means. Truth be told, his ideas to this point are VASTLY superior to anything and everything this project was going to be prior to his involvement. Some of the things that leaked about previous scripts, casting choices and what-not were actually painful to hear. I'm on-board with the invisible plane idea, even though I realize not a lot of fans would agree with me or Joss on that - it's another one of those things that defies logic, has been mostly absent from the comics for 20 years, and has become sort of an icon of the goofy old Wonder Woman modern fans don't like. To me, the invisble plane is WW's Batmobile - you gotta have it. It's a big part of the mythology that even the modern writers can't seem to totally leave behind. Plus, with today's filmmaking technology, I can envision a really cool action sequence with, say, an invisible plane vs. fighter jets, or something. It could be very cool on-screen. I just want to see them get a Wonder Woman movie as close to 100% right as they possibly can. I feel like Donner got Superman right out of the gate, Raimi did the same with Spider-Man, Burton came kinda close with Batman but then Nolan stepped up and delivered there as well. Wonder Woman deserves the same treatment. A Catwoman-like debacle would be truly heartbreaking. And it's a difficult character to get right - I realize that. Quite often they haven't even been able to get WW right in the comics. This project needs a lot of real TLC, and I truly hope Whedon's up to it. But some of his starting notions seem ill-advised and perhaps self-serving to me.
-
Aug 03, 2005 12:12:36 AM CDT
Look, if he's not doing the suit right, then it's all ov
by crimson dynamo
It will just be another motorcycle helmet wearing Captain America
-
People who have a surface knowledge of Whedon's work think he is merely about the snappy dialogue. He SO isn't! (was I channeling Buffy there?) He may set you up with the repartee, but he's also about tearing your heart out at just the right moment. He knows how to get your attention and earn emotion. I agree that he commits to his projects and takes them very seriously, even when he's poking fun at them. So I don't think Wonder Woman will be reaching for the toilet paper (or whatever the equivalent to Mr. Fantastic is). And you don't have to be a slavish fan to the particular comic to make a good story. I have every faith that Joss, of all people, can make WW, an otherwise campy property, work as a franchise.
-
Why should she be wearing the american flag on her costume when she isnt american?
-
Everyone always drops the name of that movie like it's unanimously agreed that it's worthless. Well I disagree. Sure, it's no ALIEN. Nothing is. I like it better than Alien 3 though (and I don't hate Alien 3). And what other part 4 in any series is that good? Weaver is great (playing Ripley like she's possessed by a lizard), all the supporting characters are wonderful (especially Ron Perlman, Gary Dourdan and Michael Wincott), the cinematography is gorgeous, it has some classic setpieces (most notably the underwater chase) and it takes the series in a number of new directions. I do agree that the design of the newborn was hard to take on first viewing. The creature effects went downhill after Aliens. But I love the concept of it, that after doing the mindless killing machine thing to death they actually made us feel sorry for the thing, looking into its eyes as it gets sucked through a hole the size of a silver dollar. Ouch! I'm glad to see Whedon finally admitting (although in reference to X-Men) that he cannot be objective about a movie that ended up not using his script. Resurrection is actually a good one, even if it's not the one he had hoped for. (p.s. I always loved that it DIDN'T end up on earth, because it's the future anyway. Why would we care if they were on earth, since it wouldn't look like earth anyway? In fact I remember Whedon saying as much in an interview in Cinescape before the movie came out. I didn't know who he was but I was impressed by the interview, I thought he had the right idea.)
-
Return of the Jedi is fine just how it is, though. Or at least it was until they took the Ewok song out.
-
Bryan I like Alien Resurrection as well, but I thought the 3rd one was worst than hot garbage. By the way for those who like Buffy, I just read on another site that there will probably never be a Sarah M Gellar Buffy ever again, or at least that is what her hubby basically implied.
-
Wow, you really can't read. For one thing, I've already said negative things about Whedon's work, so you're insistance that I am a sycophant of his is inaccurate. That word applies to you and Lucas better than it does to me and either him or Whedon. Furthermore, if you read my last post, I admit I made a mistake by saying "a la," which was intended simply to mean "like on" not "copied from" or which I fully admit is the more accurate connotation and I was wrong to use the phrase. You're being a shit about it though, and you apparently only read that one line or you'd know I'm not what you've said I am. So please, fuck off.
-
...fuck,I can't.I don't care a flying fuck on this.If there was ever a superhero film that IS NOT worth making this is it.Arguably,what with all the TV shows made into piss-take films perhaps they should rip the TV Carter one.What fucking powers does she have?bracelets??BRACELETS???An invisible Plane???INVISIBLE PLANE???there is NO..repeat NO..reason other than thoughtlessness in the creation of that one.And if Whedon's going with it,it's gonna be a piss take.Bollocks.The lot of it.Oh,and to the chap who said Alien:Resurrection wasn't that bad..I kinda argree,if its on TV I'll lazily sit and watch it but no-way would I buy the DVD.Good director.Shit story and script.Personally I have a total malaise about superhero flicks after FF.I have to admit though,after YET ANOTHER shit summer of movies with high expectation and drab execution,a film I generally don't like from the moment after he puts Wilkinson on a 'signal' I'm afraid Batman Begins was the best so far.Although there's still The Island to be released here...Scarlett in shit film shock??Uh-oh.Wonder Woman???Phhhhhhhh....*
-
Aug 03, 2005 8:40:40 AM CDT
Hey, That's A Good Point -- I Have No Idea Who Wonder Woman&
by zombiesolutions
weird. then again, in terms of DC heros, like most people, i only know Batman's and Superman's respective backstories/nemesii. when i was a kid, though, i loved that WW show. my mom was a professional working mom, so i saw her as having the same superherolike / 70s proto-feminist traits ("i can being home the bacon! fry it up in a pan..." etc.). keep in mind i was like 5-6 years old at the time. and no, i didn't turn out gay. i'm curious how Whedon will handle WW, but i really just want more Buffy/Angel/Spike, etc. this whole Serenity film baffles me. the show didn't even last an entire season and it gets a feature film? wha-buh? collectively, the Buffy/Angelverse lasted almost 10 YEARS and has a huge cult fanbase. do the math, Powers, and bring us our continued BUFFY/ANGEL adventures!!! don't make me call the Senior Partners...
-
Was pretty good until the last 20 minutes or so. I lay the majority of blame at the feet of the director. "Oh, now we need ze Alien and ze Ripley to be making love, oh yes, now zees ez ART!" Frenchmen shouldn't be making Alien movies.
-
Because without them you don't have a Buffy or Angel movie, you have "AfterMASH".
-
Cheetah...I only know that because Cheetah was in the Flash a few issues ago...and Wonder Woman had to be brought in...but yeah I have NO idea who the main villain is for Wonder Woman...oh and lay off Alien: Ressurection...it had the man-god himself Ron Pearlman...hell yeah
-
Just my two cents. Joss, if you want Serenity to be successful, you NEED the musical brilliance of Vanilla Ice. So speaks Galactus!
-
Aug 03, 2005 11:05:39 AM CDT
When people describe Joss Whedon, its sound like they're tal
by voice o. reason
"Buffy", "Angel", and "Firefly" all have had far to many excellent and original episodes (I've never seen anything like "The Body" or "Innocence" for example) for me to ever think Whedon's a "one trick pony".
-
Aug 03, 2005 11:13:15 AM CDT
"Because we're fans of WONDER WOMAN, and we don't want t
by voice o. reason
The fuck?
-
After reading the article I just don't see how we can assume that Whedon is going to make WW as campy as say Buffy was. I always thought that Buffy was supposed to be campy and it was written and designed that way, including the fight sequences. But after watching "The Body" recently, I have found a new appreciation for Whedon's abilities. He can do more than silly and campy and I hope he doesn't try to make WW into a Buffy clone.
-
that was truly amazing sir! friends is a ri off of star wars, thats just comedic gold. I find myself wishing I could read faster just so I know what the hell is going on in this talkback
-
First vaguely relvant talkback I could find for posting a comedy star wars link:
http://americaninlebanon.blogspot.com/2005/07/backstroke-of-west.html -
..a superhero named Princess Diana?What a Wonder Woman.Perhaps the film can have her destroying all land mines a la Quest for Peace."She came from a small island..." Perhaps her invisible plane is a metaphor for the fucking invisible seatbelt she wore.Or didnt.Yup,a truly outstanding Wonderfiul Woman,who wasn't above us commoners.No,NO!She was the PEOPLE's Princess!!!Strangely,we here mere plebs HAVE to wear seatbelts as we die if we crash and don't have one on.We'd be fucking idiots not to wear one.We must use her as an example and follow her lead.What?Whaddya mean she didn't wear one?Who did she fucking think she was?Fuckin' Wonder Woman..
-
I like Whedon's projects a lot. Don't like him personally. I think he's too self involved and he thinks he knows best about everything. Then he goes around and tells people how bad he's had it in Hollywood and how many people have done him wrong. All he does is either talk about his projects or wine about the bad things happening to him. WAKE UP Whedon, it's HOLLYWOOD! That stuff happens to everyone, and everyone complains a lot less than you. And I really do not want to hear about him crying about a Batman script because Batman Begins was Batman dead on. Batman begins was outstanding and the closest thing to perfect a comic book movie has been. I'm not even a big Batman fan, i prefer Supes. But, Batman begins was amazing and Whedon should not even talk about it because he is NOT worthy to touch that screen play.
-
Can we move on from Whedon? There will not be another Buffy--at least not with SMG. Who cares? Personally, I liked the show but the character of Buffy was not the reason I watched it. Almost everyone else was a lot more interesting to me. And I am just not a huge SMG fan. I don't see Angel coming back either. They were both good shows but they are over. Just my 2 "scents".....Wolf
-
Aug 03, 2005 10:56:22 PM CDT
Nintendo, Do the world a favor and f*** off you RACIST moron!!
by obredaan
-
douche is just a shit stirrer. he really likes firefly.
-
Whedon
Readers Talkback
User Login
Top Talkbacks
- Kurtzman And Boborci Producing An Adaptation Of Anne Rice's Lestat Novel TALE OF THE BODY THIEF?? -- 233 total posts 233 posts
- Happy Birthday John Williams! -- 229 total posts 166 posts
- Are These Space Nazis Fighting Sarah Palin?? Behold The Unbridaled Dementia Of This New IRON SKY Trailer!! -- 103 total posts 103 posts
- THE BOURNE LEGACY trailer is a bit Saul Bassy -- 102 total posts 102 posts
- The JETSONS Movie Gets New Writers!! -- 96 total posts 96 posts
- HOUSE 2004-2012 -- 94 total posts 91 posts
- Significantly different 1 minute JOHN CARTER spot! -- 138 total posts 86 posts
- Mike Fleming confirms AICN scoop on Sly & Arnold teaming up in THE TOMB!!! -- 75 total posts 75 posts
- Jason Statham's In HEAT!! Brian De Palma And William Goldman Helped Put Him There... -- 59 total posts 59 posts
- DOUGLAS TRUMBULL is going to destroy our minds and reveal awesome beyond our mortal imaginations! -- 59 total posts 59 posts