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FANTASTIC FOUR 2 in the works...
Hey folks, Harry here... Shocking to say - I was quite pleased with FANTASTIC FOUR's opening weekend. Why? Well frankly - I wanted the film to do really well on it's opening to prove that the FF was a worthy story worth pursuing. I'm also very happy that America's public went away to the tune of nearly 60%... but I'll get into that later. Here ya go...
Hey Harry!
Whilst I'm sure you'd not class this as particularly good news, Ioan Gruffudd revealed this morning on the BBC's Breakfast programme here in the UK, that he was contacted last week by the head of Fox, and informed that there would indeed be another Fantastic Four movie. Make of that what you will!
Cheers,
Ding
With the nearly 60% drop from it's opening weekend - I thought - once I heard news of a sequel in the works - that I'd pass along some notes from a FANTASTIC FOUR fan other than myself. I'd also recommend going back to Michael France - whose original script perfectly nailed what the first film SHOULD HAVE BEEN - until ya hired a 1000 monkeys with typewriters for a rewrite. I'd also recommend hiring a better director with a penchant for directing actors as well as visually inventive scenes.
Harry - I have never commented on the board but have been a frequent reader for a long time. Thought I would forward this to you after seeing Fantastic Four (F4.01) this weekend.
TOP TEN THINGS TO DO TO IMPROVE THE NEXT FANTASTIC FOUR MOVIE
By Shane Montgomery
I saw the movie this weekend and would give it a “C”. Being the Internet lurker that I am, I have read a few reviews of the flick – all of which can be summed up by the phrase I read on one review…
“FOUR? Yes. FANTASTIC? Not so much.”
So I got to thinking about this particular franchise and have a few suggestions…
THIS IS A COSMIC LEVEL, GRAND SCOPE SCI-FI MOVIE: Treat it as such. Make no apologies for the Negative Zone, Cosmic Rays, Crazy Powers and the Fantastic Car. It’s a science fiction movie. George Lucas didn’t say, “A light saber would not work in the real world.” Well, Stan and jack could not have given a rat’s @$$ about how Reed built the Fantastic Car or if it looked stupid. They just made it cool. The world the F4 live in is not ours. They visit other planets, dimensions and realities while we are still driving our Honda Civics to our 9-5 jobs. These guys fight world-devouring giants, anti-matter insects, and alien shape shifters. Spider-man works because it is a movie firmly rooted in the real world of New York. The time it doesn’t (Green Goblin in 1st Movie) is when it moves to far into the real of camp. The X-Men work because it is set in a real world with real racial tensions. Those directors got it.
COULD WE START BIG TOO? I MEAN REAL BIG? The opening should be so different than the first movie that there is no mistake that the new movie is so different in content and professionalism that it sets the tone for the rest of the franchise. (Give me 15 minutes of film to shoot my idea and a budget and I will show you what I mean – imagine the FF fighting their way back to our universe against a horde of bug-eyes Negative Zone creatures – explosions, tension, humor and the only thing standing between them and a safe return to Earth is a certain green alien with leathery bat-like wings and a cosmic power rod on his neck.) Once through the FF go about their business – just another day in the life of the Fantastic Four.
ART DIRECTORS TAKE NOTE – JACK KIRBY WAS A GENIUS: Base your art and style for the movies on his concepts – particularly his designs after issue 45. His walls were full of freaky, over the top, mind-blowing machines. Reed’s workshop should look like a giant erector set. The retro, art-deco feel would be completely different than anything in the theaters now. Ditch your modern Star Trek designs and embrace the King.
REED RICHARDS IS A FRIGIN’ GENUIS – He is the most intelligent man in the world and everyone knows it except Reed. He is way to busy creating. Reed needs to create something useful. We never saw that in F4.01. I want to’ see him create a Negative Zone Portal, A fantastic Car, Ben’s Flying Air Cycle, a thought projector helmet. I know he created a chamber to reverse cosmic rays - but come on, that felt more like a plot device (Superman 2 anyone) than something that sprung from his imagination.
GET A NEW CINEMATOGRAPHER- F4.01 looked like a television show. The shots had no depth; the lighting was not very strong.
GET DOCTOR DOOM RIGHT – He hates Reed Richards because Reed is smarter than he is, not because Reed has Sue; not because he lost his company; not because he botched an experiment. He hates “Richards” because he knows that Reed is smarter and he will not tolerate that. Doom is also noble, unlike the Doom portrayed in F4.01 who is petty, dishonest and moons over Sue more than schemes ways to destroy Reed Richards. I remember an interview with Stan Lee that quoted Stan when he described Doctor Doom’s motivation to take over the world, “Doom wants to rule the world and the scary part is he may actually do a better job than we do right now if he was in power.” With Doom you have to get the feel that he might actually be able to create a better world, society and culture with him at the helm. The biggest weakness he has little to so with his armor. In fact he only has two weaknesses – his hatred for Reed and his love for Laverteria. Oh yeah, he has to say, “Richards? Bah!” at least once!
KEEP CHIKLIS BUT DITCH THE THING SUIT– If you keep the suit, redesign it to resemble how Ben really looks. The distinct brow. I personally was surprised at how much of Ben came through the mask and chalk that up to the job done by the actor. But what was most disappointing was the size of the Thing on screen. Ben is huge in the comics. He is massive. Don’t think that size can be done without CG Effects. Take a page out of the LOTR and SW universe. A CG Thing would rock (pun intended) and with the technology used on the Hulk every emotive expression would be captured on film.
DON’T CHANGE JOHNNY STORM EITHER – Chris Evans is perfect in his role as the FF’s resident hot head. He just needs to loose the buzz cut.
GET A REAL SCORE – Think John Williams meets Danny Elfman. The music has to be on the same scale as the visuals – Comic when it is larger than life and intimate when the screen is filled with tender, emotional moments. Oh yeah, CAN FRIGN’ DOCTOR DOOM HAVE HIS ON THEME A’LA DARTH VADER?
VILLIANS – WE WANT VILLIANS – I want to see the fricken’ Frightful Four (Wizard played by Steve Buscemi, Trapster, Medusa, and Hydro-Man)! I want to see Anihillus and the Negative Zone! I want to see The Super-Skrull fight the FF and defeat them and summon his fellow Skrulls to invade the Earth! I want to see Galatcus, the Silver Surfer and the Watcher but they have to be done right!
IT’S ALL ABOUT THE STORY STUPID – Most of all, remember that we saw the plot holes in the first movie and we are not idiots. We want to know why the character do what they do unlike how Doom acted in the end of the movie. We want action driven by a plot, not vice-versa.
Shane
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I've got nothing to say...
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Those are what business meetings at Fox must be like.
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Oops, hit ENTER too soon.
Anyway, all the actors told the morning show host they are all contracted for 2 more films - if they are green-lighted. Who knows if both get made. -
All they look at is the opening weekend. The movie went from $56 mill to $23 mill (est). And it's not like it exactly had Batman or Star Wars as competition this week. People saw FF the first week because they were bombarded with marketing and there was nothing else going on that week. The movie sucked, it got shit reviews and it's already dead. And they're going to make a sequel? Christ. Film would be about ten years ahead of where it is now if they just replaced every movie studio executive with a shaved ape.
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Bring it on... now they have got the 'aah, so thats how they all get along with eachother and how they got their powers' blurb out the way... Lets have the four going about their daily business until... ZOOM! ... The silver surfer turns up and tells the Earth that his boss, Galactus, is on the way and will expect their obedience or death! CUT to a few spectacular fights between FF and SS until... SHAZAAM! Galactus turns up and begins his destructive and belligerent attack on us mere mortals... but SHOCK! after a Darth Vader style conflict of interests, SS joins forces with FF and they thwart Galactus, but not before... ZAP! Galactus transfers his powers to Aunt May and she goes on the rampage... until FLUMP!! The F5 gat all the twinky's in the world and make Aunt May eat them all until her head explodes ...and TRIQUEL!! Spiderman, racked with grief over the death of Aunt May turns evil spawning FF3 and Spidey 3 being the same film. Lets then join it up with X4 and have the biggest superhero mix up since a Marvel Truck crashed on the freeway!!
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but i'm very doubtful that they'll change the "winning" formula, The most we can expect is a better story and better Thing FX. But don't go hoping for a new art direction because it won't happen. A Star-Trek-The-Motion-Picture-to-Wrath-Of-Khan type transformation we are NOT going to get. I think we'll just have to wait another 15 years for a decent stab at this. Hopefully in the meantime we can look forward to a jaw-dropping Silver Surfer movie. And if they don't make a Mighty Thor movie i'm going to kill someone.
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..and I strangely enjoyed the beginning.Then slowly something happened..a slow,building feeling starting rising...I realized I was watching a kids movie.The humour,the story..it's base level,unchallenging fluff.Reed is a weak geek in this,"Vic!"-what the fuck?Johnny gets chased by a roscket before he'd flamed on didn't he?That stupid sub-plot about Ben's wife-totally redundant..Alba,genuinely giving Keanu Reeves a run for his money in the talent stakes.Strangely the childish banter between Torch and Thing was okay,more to do with the fact Johnny always acted like a brat to the Thing in the comics.But ...jeesus,the middle of the film was boring me to tears.An d Doom.....!!Oh ..why bother,why bother.McMahon could have done Doom okay,the Nip/Tuck arrogance and holier than thou look,the self-love blah,blah.But seriously why call him Dr.Doom when the character represents nothing in relation to the comic's Doom?!What I would've loved would have been the out of control ego of the Doom of the comics who,unwilling to deal with a little scar on his handsome face,melds his burning mask onto his face driving him insane(..er)!?I'm afraid now it's been a few days later since I saw this film,I like it less by the second.Won't be buying the Duh-Vuh-Duh for this..the pain would be too much.Oh and.......I guess ben can jump in and out of that fuckin' machine now to change back and forth??Somehow lessened the tragedy of the character,eh?Christ...grumble...
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The cast was perfect.Harry ripped on alot of frivolous shit like Johnny not being a blonde....The story and Dr Doom were dissapointing but the film works like a TV pilot. Much better than Daredevil and I even think I had a beter time than the deadly serious Batman Begins(ok shoot me).
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Jul 19, 2005 6:36:10 AM CDT
Gee? People are shocked by the 60% drop of FANTASTIC FOUR? Well
by negative man
Really, the fact that Fantastic Four knocked WAR OF THE WORLDS out of first place is the real story. Oddly, nearly everyone I know that saw it (including myself) actually enjoyed it for what it was. A Summer fun, campy, family friendly flick. It never tried to be BATMAN, SPIDER-MAN or even STEEL in it's seriousness or themes. It reminded me a little of THE ROCKETEER. It was just meant to be an ejoyable ride.
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I'd like to see that happen, chances are slim though. Btw - this months Ultimate FF would make a great porno!
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I sent an e-mail to this site with this same news probably before Ding. And did they use it? No! Grr...Oh well, I'll keep trying. If only random blockbuster advance screenings happened in the south of England. THEN I'd have something to send in!
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Simple-minded kiddie movies. Both of which were kind of fun.
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Dr. Doom doesn't hate Reed because Reed is smarter. In the comics (at least the original Lee/Kirby stuff) Doom hates Reed because Reed (they were best friends at the time) refused to help him in an experiment during college that ended with Doom being 'horribly' disfigured in an explosion. It was revealed that the only disfigurement was a tiny scare on Doom's otherwise perfect face. It was a great twist back them...and hinted that Doom's scars were serverly psychological. Later, that college experiment was revealed to be a machine that could open a dimensional portal...to Hell. Doom intended to enter Hell and rescue his mothers
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Is it generally accepted that Sue fucked Namor?I seem to remember her getting off with the fucker in the ol' days.God,he was one ugly dude...Christ he had an affair with Marina from Alpha Flight.Urggghh..that fish face.Never liked Namor,arrogant wife-nicker.So..Johnny and Ben both screwd Alicia,Sue banged Reed and Namor,Johnny got luckey with Nova/Frankie Raye,She Hulk banged that American Indian chap,Sue went Sado-Masochistic and -arguably- got aced by Pscho-man,Ben flirted with She-Hulk and .....Reed....well,Reed..er..got cock blocked by Namor!!By a god-damn fish boy,man....bet he didn't need to ask twice if she'd been out with him.The smell....gghagh!
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Cause god knows he wasn't in the first movie.
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bloody Sue was sniffing about Norrin Rad as well...."Susan..",am guessing this was a rebound for the surfer though..he only ever loved Shalla Bal.Then again I'm sure she'd let him call her shalla,I'd guess Sue's been called worse........
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you know like you did with the first movie
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should be revealed as a robot. The REAL Doom is in Latveria. Add KIRBY concept designs!!! The FF should be the biggest film out of the Marvel Universe in terms of scope and design. The Thing should grow into the taller and bulkier Thing in the comics. Last thing... KIRBY KRACKLES!!!
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When I walk into the theater I've noticed that there were lots of little kids. At that point I knew that this was a family movie. With that expectation I just sat back and enjoyed the movie. At the end of the movie little kids applaud and cheers. I bet you once they hit teenage years they will asking themselves "I can't believed I like this movie when I was a kid!" Look we have Batman Begins, let the kids have Fantastic Four. But it's good to rant. Hopefully Fox will listen and make a more solid sequel. But again shave monkey don't listen very well. :)
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It just seems strange everyone pretty much banked on it and was looking forward to it.
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I swear to God,if they make him cgi I'm giving up on Marvel.They should do an origin film with him and Galactus right now and have it end with Galactus on his way to Earth,setting up the next film.From what I understand there's a surfer movie on the cards so God knows whose going to be the villian in the next film...Christ,not Blastaar!All that negative zone stuff always felt indulgent.Oh and Yeah!I demand the Surfer wear silver jockeys too...traditionalist,me.Oh,God...The Silver Surfer...it's another Christ allegory..of course it'll get made.Convinced I read Avi Arad say Galactus would take 'another form' for the movie.WHAAATT?!
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You pan the script a year in advance. You shit on the movie when it comes out. And then, when the movie is a huge hit and you look like a major league asshole, you turn around and act like you were supporting them all along. As Doctor Doom would say, lift my cloak and kiss my shiny metal ass.
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Just think about it: F42. How many people are gonna think this is part 42 in an ongoing saga? Although if it had the subtitle 'Life, the Universe and Everything', I'd probably go and see it...
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petty! petty! petty! - Also, he looks hot with the buzz cut so knock off the whining.
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Hire some people behind the camera with actual talent. God only knows what a decent director and screenplay might do. Oh, and put a written apology for the first movie as the sequel's pre-credit title card.
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Yeah, so were Wild Wild West, Scary Movie, and Spielbergo's War of the Worlds, which are all crappy in my opinion... personally I fondly remember the article Harry wrote when news of a FF movie first hit: when he put together what he thought would make a great FF movie, all retro art-deco and shit... yeah, too bad that didn't happen...
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Fox needs another franchise. Which they can screw up like they did with Alien, and like what they are currently doing to Xmen. They had great director in Vaughan and for reasons which are still unknown he quit to be replaced by the director of the Video(which is barely porno) for Jessica simpsons Atrcious boots are made for walkin'g cover.
Jessica simpson and Paris hilton in a movie together. Watch Hollywood burn....... -
Jul 19, 2005 8:14:17 AM CDT
How about hire a new fucking director and take the shit seriousl
by mr. profit
The FF's direction and effects were subpar. They need a real director like Alex Proyas and a better script. They can keep the cast, just send Alba to an acting class or five.
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...it more or less sucked, though it did have a few "mindless-but-decent-timewaster" moments. I think most of the audience was there because we had a hurricane on the way that weekend and that's what Floridians do before a hurricane... board up and go to the movies (or the mall).
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No really, i can't. For all the money being spunked up the wall on marketing here in the UK and abroad I have not seen a single image that got me even remotely interested in the first film let alone a sequel. Although I would be if there was a decent director attached. Mr. Profit gave a good shout with Proyas. Even though the end of I Robot was an uncharacteristic mess which gave me a headache, he is largely a solid director who I have relative faith in to deliver. What about Alex de la Iglesia? I'm sure he could rustle up something interesting.
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Who didn't feel bad for The Thing and is oversized hands? Get a real director, a new DP, and make Reed smarter and less of a idiot. Tweak Doom's mask. Make it a little less slick.
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Let's start bashing this one now.
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Jul 19, 2005 8:27:01 AM CDT
There's absolutely nothing wrong with Fantastic Four being a
by johnnytremaine
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Jul 19, 2005 8:27:08 AM CDT
1st weekend box office measures how good the marketing was; it&#
by frankdrebin
Because it's based on friends telling friends whether to see the film, plus repeat business. A 60% dropoff for the second weekend isn't good. It means the budget will be cut for FF2, so forget about any cosmic-level adventure.
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Jul 19, 2005 8:29:54 AM CDT
If Fox were smart, they'd hire someone like a Joe Dante to
by johnnytremaine
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Jul 19, 2005 8:31:46 AM CDT
Too bad James Cameron is busy prepping Aquaman with Vincent Chas
by mr. profit
He would have made a good Fantastic Four film.
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Jul 19, 2005 8:34:30 AM CDT
JOE DANTE for FF2 is a great choice. Man .... I would LOVE to se
by mansep
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...except when you actually have to pay for it. I was fairly disappointed in Fantastic four (Not to say I didn't enjoy it) and yes it could've been made much better (casting was a problem - Invisible Woman & Reed, Doom was a useless villain and the rubber around The Thing's neck was distracting) but coming out and saying I want this huge opening in the negative zone AND then I want Galactus to come AND we have to have Silver Surfer (Who has to either be fully CG or a human that's very CG augmented to get right - much like what The Thing should've been), not to mention the other heralds, AND we have to have a top notch director/writer is all good when you think that perhaps the budget for such a story would be $175m+ easily. It's not that easy fellas. And Galactus may prove to be very difficult to translate to screen without him looking silly. I'm not saying it can't be done but the scale of Fantastic Four is so huge that it's actually difficult to put something that appeases all us comic fans on the screen on a fair budget. Spiderman's/Batman's universe is very tiny comparatively speaking and the events are nowhere as big as what we need to see in FF. Only Superman comes close and we still have to see what they're gonna do with Superman because let's be honest Superman is all-powerful so we need big epic events/battles to reflect that. None of the original Superman films came even close to that.
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Jul 19, 2005 8:39:28 AM CDT
Make Ben more chunky-style (like we've been used to in the c
by frankdrebin
Although it did take about 10 issues for Ben to go from creamy-style to chunky-style. I think John Byrne had a story where a Future Thing met the Original Thing, and he made them look different, and said that Ben had kept changing after getting zapped. (Like the first issue of the Hulk had him colored gray by mistake, so they wrote that into the continuity too.)
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In case no one noticed, entertainment companies ain't exactly soaring. Most of their charts would make great if dangerous ski slopes. Box office will likely be down to flat again, some DVD sales are falling short, and pirating are all killing the bottom line. Unless you have a videogame spinoff to go with your blockbuster flick, it's hard to make big money these days. The last thing in the world Marvel will do (even after making something cheap like a Captain America) would be to spend $200-250 million on the as previously described FF2 pipe dream. Agreed, that's where it's strength was, the layered Kirby design, the cosmic stories, and the hordes of minions that could oppose their collective powers. But too expensive for this market. The next movie could find Reed's genius which drove most of the plots, Ben's loyalty and self sacrifice, Johnny's emotional vulnerability, and Sue's invisible glue that held them all together when not saving the world. Improving relationships could happen, but Arad is never gonna risk a fledgling production company on any big FX bet. So, we're stuck with the Thing suit, no Fantasticar, and earth bound stories. Even, I think, if still committed to Fox for the sequel, I can't envision the movie we'd all want to see getting made. On the plus side, future crossover characters are much more likely with Marvel in total control. But they are a long way from establishing the Marvel Universe on the big screen. If they cheap out, it may never have time to develope. Imagine their glee, making such a stinker that could gross $200-300 million worldwide, plus dvd, plus videogame, plus merchandise after such horrid reviews. Unfortunately, that's likely to become their future template for sequels and other properties. Getting audiences back the second time though, may be a lot harder.... PS Congrats to Jessica Alba who at her tender age has done someting no other actress has done. She is the first female to have 3 action figures from 3 different shows based on her portrayal. There's only been a few actors who have joined the same exclusive group.
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Jul 19, 2005 8:52:10 AM CDT
Some news about "the other FF": there's an upcoming INCREDIB
by frankdrebin
It sounds like it's just Craig T. & Samuel L. (maybe from before Mr. Incredible got married) versus the Mole Man, er, Underminer.
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...with his description of how the Thing should have looked. He's obviously a 90s-era FF fan with no concept of how the character was originally drawn - lumpy and shorter than Reed. Is there room for improvement in the sequel? Absolutely. Just as there was with X-Men. X2 was a quantum improvement over its predecessor, but X-Men wasn't a bad comic movie. Neither was FF. And Harry, your credibility is seriously hurting. Obviously your feelings about this movie are conflicted, but if that's the case you ought to just say that and stick with it instead of trying to tell us what you were really thinking while you were saying something else. It would take a big man to admit he was wrong. Any really big men on this site? Perhaps behind it?
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Doctor Doom is in rehab. Being badly burned, he finds himself getting nursed to health and operating from a bed. Since he cannot attack them, he sends an assistant down into the tunnels of New York to coax the Morlocks into invading the city and attacking the Fantastic Four. The Morlocks are led by their fourth leader - Mikhail Rasputin, a former cosmonaut (and an existing Marvel character) -- who is contacted by Doom's people. In the movie we can establish that he's also been hired by Doom to pilot a special project -- a dangerous and experimental device. Things get out of hand and the FF end up victorious. Of course, there could even be a cameo by Mikhail Rasputin's brother Colossus. Rasputin warns Doom that they aren't evil and will only capture the Fantastic Four. In the end, the Fantastic Four make their way to Doom's island and Doom has even a greater surprise -- he is stronger and 100% healthy. I dunno.
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Jul 19, 2005 9:05:36 AM CDT
Ironically the REAL hit of the summer isn't even in theaters
by johnnytremaine
I went to my local Barnes and Noble to pick up a special order book pertaining to my job, and I encountered hordes of tykes in various costumes gathering in the bookstore presentation/theater room, waiting for a guy in a wizard suit to read part of the new Harry Potter book to them. There were stacks upon stacks of the new book piled up everywhere. With this, the Davinci Code, and 1776 doing bang-up business, I'm guessing the book biz is having a fantastic year.
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Jul 19, 2005 9:20:52 AM CDT
People are always saying that shit right after a movie comes out
by darksider
It's standard practice to be talking about Daredevil 2, Hulk 2, Punisher 2, Hellboy 2, etc. when the first is still in theaters and we never see them again. Or we get a sequel 5 years or so later and nobody cares anymore. The contractually obligations are funny too. Remember Tyler Mane and Ray Park's 3 picture deals for X-Men? Or when the director of the first movie is signed on for 3 and doesn't return. Now I haven't see FF yet, but most of that shit is just buzz at the moment.
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...is that i'd rather have my balls nailed to a rusty, spiked, white hot steel board than see more of F4. Luckily, i've seen it for free, so no need to lament over currency.
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...your words bring hope to me.
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All I know is the movie line of the year is when Johnny Storm is about to drag race that guy, and the guy turns to him and says "Hey- where's your hot sister and the monster?". CLASSIC. Runner up is when Ben Grimm is asked to speak to some young fans outside the Baxter Building and shouts "DON'T DO DRUGS" at them. We also had COMEDY GOLD when Reed stretches to grab toilet paper while on the can in the 'quarantine in the Baxter Building' montage. For those of you who haven't seen the movie- these are all REALLY IN THE MOVIE.
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Damn that thing had cool music. I can only dream of a Silver Surfer movie being as cool as that. They shouldn't stick him on Earth, he should be a cosmic wanderer, and the Kirby/Lee universe is his playground. That show should be required viewing for the movie makers, who should also be forced to watch Transformers the Movie. UNICRON IS GALACTUS!!!!! Do not make him less awesome.
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Here is a great sci-fi short
http://www.thespacezones.com
Enjoy -
The haters will never get over Fantastic Four's great opening, and continued success, but wait until the official announcement of Fantastic Four II, then these pyschos will really blow a gasket! All I have to say, in the words of Immortal Snoop..."EAT A DICK, BEEYOTCH!"
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Here is a great sci-fi short: Warwick Davis
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Great sci-fi short retort - bloody funny!!!
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I promise this film will gross less than Waterworld.
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Waterworld is the greatest film ever made... the fine acting, the convincing plot, the environmental morality message, Jeane Tripplehorn's butt, Jack Black... OH MY!!!
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was only mildly amusing when it appeared in "a MAD look look at Plasticman" about thirty years ago--and that was probably the most original thing in this film.
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It was a fun movie. Shallow plot, but I could forgive the rest and enjoy the show. I just had to chime in about the fanboy idiocy of this "news" item. In the very slim chance this is green lit, you're not going to see all that alien/cosmic crap. You can give up on that right now. Movie America isn't going to understand any of that stuff and therefore the check will not be written for that script. To hit the box office bullseye, you need the reluctant hero, criminal mastermind and a dash of romantic tension. Allusions to Zenn'La may make your geek spider sense tingle, but it doesn't put butts in seats. We're lucky they throw us even the smallest bone from comic book continuity. We should be thanking our lucky stars they didn't "reimagine" the FF into a bunch of astronauts who, via cosmic rays, turned into a boy band committed to fight crime, "keep it real" and "rawk." Now, that's a story idea with that Barton Fink feeling.
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Will the
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I'm so sick of everyone flaming every comic-based movie that's released!!! Why do you do it? Because it doesn't live up to your expectations? What ARE your expectations? I mean... shit... get real!
Movie adaptations (historically) of comicbooks have never been based on complete accuracies, so get over yourselves. Whenever you go to the theather to see a comic-based movie, you should go in with a clear head (not expecting every little accuracy from the comics). It doesn't even make sense that people would think that a production team would create a direct adaptation. AHHH!!! Shut up with your needless, pointless, & petty banter!
Now, I wouldn't say this has been the best comic movie, by any means. I think it was a great, entertaining, & fun flick. The acting & team dynamics were great! The cgi was fantastic & (unlike what I thought) didn't take away from the story! The character development was adequate (for the main characters, anyway).
The only problems I could see was the way Ben Grimm was able to transform himself back into The Thing (when he essentially didn't have enough power to do so, without the help of Doom... whom wasn't there) & the development of Ben's relationship with Alicia (that just happened... WAY too fast).
Other than those 2 points of discrepencies... you shouldn't have anything to complain about...
To comment on some of the things said: everyone's hair was fine, Dr. Doom's hatred for Reed was evident & presented in an accurate manner...
End Note: Stop bitching... -
I think the whole N-Zone is just a little over zealous, not to mention budget busting.
What I'd do for the sequel?
1. I'd recast Reed and Sue (but you can't do that now), but man were they miserable.
2. Make Thing CGI (suit wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, but still just a couple of notches above Roger Corman)
3. Give Johnny Storm blonder hair (and a red variant uniform in a scene or two)
4. Hire a new EFX house. Those looked bargain basement.
5. Redesign the Baxter Building exterior
6. Start off the sequel with a really cool montage sequence showing the FF taking on different foes, and growing in popularity (kind of like a Rocky movie). It would help further establish their universe, and could have a bunch of villian cameos.
7. Redesign Reed's lab (with a bunch of cool inventions and gadgets)
As for Villians in FF2, here are my picks:
Galactus -- If the universe is established at the opening via montage that this is a true comic book movie, then I think you can pull it off. The film would be more of a space opera with the Silver Surfer.
Super Skrull and Skrulls -- again extraterrestrials, but could be very cool.
Doom -- okay, he stunk in this movie. However if he were to break free, turn to dark mysticism, put himself in a suit of armor, take over an entire country and proclaim himself a monarch, create threatening technology, bioengineer a bunch of super powered servants and monsters to try to destroy the FF, and come convincingly close to taking over the world, all would be forgiven. -
Jul 19, 2005 10:17:20 AM CDT
You guys are driving me nuts with this "popcorn movie","leave yo
by i dunno
If by some off chance someone in the business were to read these TBs, those are the only posts that would register in their head. Complacency to crap is why they don't strive for anything else.
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Oh my god,I forgot about Reed on the shitter....Ugghh....So..is Doom dead by the end of the movie or what,he's melted in place with no man-package isn't he?And if his body is turning to silver/metal why is his pink flesh visible around his mask's eyepieces,I don't actually care..but then again,from the looks of it neither did anyone on the film.Strange how Avi has gone from lovable old Marvel papa to the Muthafuckin Antichrist in 6 short months.Who the fuck thought up Ghost Rider and Deathlok as the next films to be made when theres still the Norrin Radd and Tony Stark out there bitchin' at not havin' a movie.Tony's hit the sauce cos of Avi...I also seem to remember some fucking' woeful RAWK music in this film.Dear God,I suppose because I loved the movie I overlooked Macey Fucking Grey in Spidey.Actually that's one fuckin' funny moment..Macy Pothead Grey jumping out the way of pumpkin bombs...Hahhahh.Watch the wig...WATCH the WIg,bitch.Oh,and Alicia Masters...you ho,what'chu doin' hanging around bars alone,girl?Man,I'm sure Alicia didn't do that much pounding in the comic...what..?...oh,yeah...Sue was the love cheat in the mag...No wait Alicia aced Johnny when Thing stayed on the Secret Wars planet...must..calm..down...it's only a movie..it's only a movie...red..mist..descending
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hence FF 2. perhaps FF was disappointing, but it is far from the unmitigated disaster many of you are saying it is. hopefully the second time will be better. honestly i thought FF was okay. not great, but okay. INCREDIBLES was much better at dealing with the basic theme. maybe for the second FF, they can hire a real director, and fix the clusterfuck that was Dr. Doom.
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Did anyone else see the EW article where Thomas Haden Church said his character in Spider-Man 3 was "...a horse of Many Different Colors..."? Hmmmmmmmm
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Dennis Dugan? Jon Turtletaub?
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Jul 19, 2005 10:30:32 AM CDT
cool, that gives harry more time to start his hate campaign agai
by silverdog
...not that the one against the first one worked at the end.one superhero movie more, one superhero movie less, who cares anymore...
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was only mildly amusing when it appeared in "a MAD look look at Plasticman" about thirty years ago--and that was probably the most original thing in this film.
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can you imagine how awesome it would be to see Spidey beating the shit out of a cyborg Aunt May? like really roughing her up? that would rule.
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Traci Lords as Sue,Harry Reams as Reed,Ron Jeremy as Ben,Peter North as Johnny.Get Ginger Lynne as Alicia and get John Holmes as Doom(will have to be cgi from back catalogue).The Fantastic Foursome. or The Fucking Four ...tagline "This Summer get Fucked!"..oh,what you mean that WAS this summers tagline
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Considering WATERWORLD worldwide made $260 mil in 1995, which in 2005 dollars would be equivalent to somewhere in the neighbourhood of $400 mil.
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The sequel will BOMB. Did you see what happened to Tomb Raider? The box office was fine but the film sucked ass, so then when the sequel rolled around no one went to see it! No way this franchise is getting to a third film. Do some exit poll research and figure out if the sequel is actually going to make any money at all instead of going on blind faith in sequels, how bout that?
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I have a vague recollection of a super hero cartoon that was on in the '80's... there may have been three heroes, not sure... what I do remember is that one was Iceman? And sprayed a sheet of ice before him to slide on (very similar to Frozone I imagine) and one may have been on fire like Johnny. Does this exist? Or did I just take too much acid?
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There was Iceman,who was just Johnny Storm in this,and then a chick with red hair...Nova or north star or something,Spidey and.....a fucking dog.Or am I on crazy pills?
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Jul 19, 2005 11:01:09 AM CDT
yes, Doom is a weak villain, but at least he doesn`t scream "joy
by silverdog
at least he doesn`t dance around in his underwear with an umbrella, or licks his hand to look sexy, or controls people with kisses. and a villain whose master plan includes spying his enemies and then using their weakness against them is 10 times better than a villain whose master plan includes an army of birds to bomb the city, or freezing the world to repopulate it with ani-plant or plant-nimals(whatever),or a master plan that involves kidnapping children on a circus train, or brainwave sucking tv antennas or face melting beauty products, or scaring someone`s old aunt and then making him choosing who goes down the brigde first like the master plan the green goblin copied from the riddler("who is it gonna be: bruce`s love or the dark knight`s junior partner"). and yes becoming a statue at the end was lame, but at least he didn`t die trying to catch a coin, or with a brainwave overdose, or eaten by a giant plant, or sliced by his own glider.. yes as a character Doom was undeveloped, weak ,badly casted and nowhere near as cool as doc. ock, the joker, ra`s al ghoul, or even catwoman(pfeiffer, not that bad copy) and the scarecrow. but as a villain and compared to the riddler, the penguin, mr. freeze, poison ivy, lauren hedare, drake and danica talos, the hand`s assasins and the hulk`s crazy daddy, well compared to those "masterminds" doc doom was charlie freaking manson...
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Jul 19, 2005 11:01:29 AM CDT
True Priapic -- They Also All Lived with Aunt May and Their Rec
by zombiesolutions
god, that show sucked. but i loved it as a kid. the BAKSHI Spiderman is fucking tits, though. so cheap and tripped out. the DVD collection is fun for the whole family. especially while high. really fuckin' high.
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and the only things amazing about these punks was they're stupidity!Yeah,she looks like a suitable flatmate-her superpowers are flames and I'm made of ice,great team-up.And their dog had human mannerisms and no-one knew if it was a boy or girl dog but firestar put pigtails around its ears....also,if Sue Storms blood and skin and internal organs go invisible what happens to Reeds semen when he pops his load in her?Does the semen become 'one' with her or when she gets pregnant with their kid will people see a floating fetus running around when she's fighting crime?What the fuck was their kid called again,.....arghhh!It was ..barney,no...weirder than that...arghhh
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Whats this Mind Freak thing thats rather annoyingly at the top of the AICN site?? Did David Blaine and The Undertaker step into one of Dr Brundles matter transporters, and this us the unholy result?!?
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"you thpin me right 'round baby right round, like a record baby, right round round round!" >shudder<
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Silver Surfer and Galactus should be the "villains" in F4.02. Sure, Doom must be there too (this time as head of Latveria government), but the World Devourer story is perfect to show Reed's genius, someepic scifi stuff, plus you could use Alicia much better as the girl Silverboy befriends or something. You can even throw in some Negative Zone stuff (by making Galactus an inhabitant of that dimension at the beggining who notices earth throug a portal built by reed and/or Doom, for instance), so you can start the movie with a major fight scene against Anihilus and Blastaar
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Jul 19, 2005 11:14:07 AM CDT
I love it when basement quarterbacks talk about how dumb studio
by tompalpatine
Acting like they have some intel the studios aren't aware of. Sure the suits make shitty decisions (usually based on cash, but it's highly unlikely that anyone in these talkbacks could do better.
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Man,what a Ceeeeeerraaaaaapppppp character!Did the surfer betray Galactus after meeting the FF and Alicia or was he sent to Earth as though he was doin' time for refusing to play ball for the Man?I can't remember,I thought he had the power cosmic taken from him for betrayal.Who took his place,some bald headed guy who linked up with Doc.Doom(again!)..then it was Frankie,non?Hooooboy,frankie Raye!
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Captain,no wonder you wandered off and left those kids,they were annoying!!All that showin' an' tellin'.How's meeeeeesis weeeerkerr?
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......has it by any chance occurred to you and your over-inflated sense of self-importance that these studios are not making movies geared towards 'elevated' minds such as yours? It might have something to do with the fact that they realized a long time ago that they stand little chance at ever truly satisfying the geek hardcore fanbase's demands and whims, but personally, I tend to think it has more to do with the fact that they realize that they stand a better chance of turning a higher profit by gearing their movies towards casual average non-comicbook-fanboy viewers (you know, the 'leave-your-brain-at-the-door' types that you seem to hate so much). And this is, after all, a money-making profession, above all else. Given all this, one has to wonder why it is, then, that you still keep torturing yourself attending these movies and then suffering the rest of us "popcorn-movie" lovers with your insipidly ludicrous notions of what we should or should not be watching. Yes, the movie didn't get the best of reviews, but no, it didn't completely suck to the degree you or others such as Harry ( who incidentally just 'suddenly' happens to be thrilled that the movie had a great weekend; out of the Blue. Of course, he still had to pop in a little sideshot of how it still dropped off 60% the following weekend. Like any other movie was going to have an uptick against the combined challenge of 'Charlie' and 'Wedding Crashers') wanted us to believe it would. The movie has already crossed the $100 million threshold and is well on its way past breaking even, before merchandising and other revenues come into play. That there's going to be a sequel is a no-brainer. It only means we get entreated to another round of baseless bashing from the likes of your esteemed self and Harold, even before the movie gets into production, right before you and the rest of Naysayers Intl., still go and see it ANYWAY, when it's released, so as to treat us to more crapola afterwards. So here's a little suggestion, seeing as you already knew the first one would suck, and I would imagine that you indubitably know the sequel will also suck again, why not do something completely and wildly crazy and unimagineable in terms of its unpredictability and spontanaity, and.....wait for it......don't watch it!! Yeah,... and then to make even more crazier,.....(now, stay with me here because this is kind of out there)...... refuse to have anything more to do with these movies (and that includes wasting anymoreo of your precious time on these talkbacks; it should be obvious that aforementioned execs don't read these talkbacks otherwise we would be getting gems at the theatres) at least until Fox get your personal consent on director choice, final script draft, actors, set designers, casting agents, stunt crew, CGFX company and set caterers, for final approval before they proceed with the sequel. I think that, as crazy as that idea is, it would just work well for everyone involved.......dontcha think? (just a wild and crazy thought, I dunno.....)
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"...and stop calling me 'Harold'."
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Jul 19, 2005 11:31:56 AM CDT
well said Kai_Mah'gra , I love comic books as muchs as every
by silverdog
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Jul 19, 2005 11:33:13 AM CDT
The Fantastic Four movie was fine. It didn't reinvent the wh
by doom ii
What the fuck was everyone looking for? I found it a pretty fun movie overall. The drop was expected because Charlie & The Chocolate Mess opened up this weekend. I would expect the FF to around 160 million when all is said and done. Same as X-Men 1. I thought it was actually easier to sit through than Spider-Man 1. I am so sick of "origin" stories, but at least the FF sped through it and didn't waste time getting to the action. Not trying to stir shit up, it's just my opinion on a movie I expected to hate.
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Jul 19, 2005 11:33:16 AM CDT
Here we go again Harry...for the FF movie to get past the 100 mi
by enter4none
Harry, you really seem compeled to put bad word on it, so the setup (give some props to it to crush it afterwards) for your real opinion on this article only makes you look stupid...well, we're not blind and people, specially young kids, seem to favor the TV show feeling and improvements aren't denied for a sequel....Dude, you are so going to be under some heavy scrutiny for your own movie project, and please, don't go for the cheap scapegoat of making a "cult movie" campaign because it's would only be a sign of early defeat.
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Jul 19, 2005 11:36:21 AM CDT
I Dunno is absolutely right, people like Kai are killing this we
by industrykiller
Kai your post is disgusting. Now people on this site are defending the studios??!! What the fuck is happening here? People liek I Dunno and myself are trying to make these movies better. Do you not want that? Fine if you are ok with the stupid garbage we got but wouldn't it hav been nice if F4 was the epic sci fi blast we all wanted? pleasing the fans is impossible? Bullshit. Defeatist bullshit. You cannot look at the last crop of superhero films and say they made anything but an attempt NOT to please the fans. Plus the X-Men and Spider man films (the two biggest fan pleasers) are also the two biggest comic franchises out there (that will end with X3 a film baffoons like Kai will defend) In fact Kai I bet your a fucking studio plant. No other fan whoa ctually loves cinema would defend people who purpposely make movies worse becaue they think its what people want. Only an unintelligent creature would want that. So thank you I Dunno and keep fighting the good fight. We will win this. I remember when this site was actually full of film geeks who loved the art, this site almost single handedly got the first horrible Superman script cancelled. Now it seems to be full of soccer moms and 13 year olds. Pathetic.
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Jul 19, 2005 11:39:08 AM CDT
How come the Thing wears a super-suit in some early issues?Who c
by the true priapic
How and why did he turn back to the Thing?Dear God,if any of you out there think the Surfer should be cgi then go search google images for surfer wallpapers and look on in horror at the results.And if in the film a group of kids skate boarding in NY see him ride an astral wave and go "Whoa!" then I'll eat my fists in furious anger
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hahahahahahahahahha
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.......oh wait....you were actually beign serious? Oooops, my bad......and my sincerest sympathies too! (Still as funny as hell though....keep it coming...... that was just the thing to pick me up this morning.)
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is due to the lack of return viewers. Big openning weekends these days are mainly due to the marketing a film receives. The film's staying power reflects more on the quality or appeal of the film.
In the FF's case, the media blitz suckered enough people into seeing it the openning weekend. Once they saw how bad it was, once was enough and the word of mouth kept others away. Plus with ticket prices so high, only a really good movie will get people to shell out the money again for a second viewing.
But as the saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you". -
And I thank you for your agreement which your lack of argument can only imply. It's good to admit you're wrong sometimes. Welcome to the good side.
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Jul 19, 2005 11:54:10 AM CDT
Oh yeah, a proper Silver Surfer movie will be almost IMPOSSIBLE
by doom ii
A CGI character for 2 hours straight? Major space battles and aliens from all over the universe? Galactus flying around destroying planets? A Silver Surfer movie would make Revenge Of The Sith look like a student film. At this time, it would be a cost prohibited movie...unless it's an animated movie. I have all 13 episodes of the Surfer animated series from 1998 and it is fantastic indeed. I love that it doesn't pander to children at all. Blows away the 90's Fantastic Four cartoons. Find the dvd set on ebay if you can. It will not dissapoint. Best stoner cartoon ever produced.
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Usually you have a good, quality movie, then make a sequel. What FF4 shows is that people were willing to see a great, well known franchise take off -- but instead it sputters and crashes. Who is going to want to see a follow up to THAT?
Maroons. -
he can stretch ANY body part....remember? so who needs sue anyway. :p
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Jul 19, 2005 11:57:30 AM CDT
In all seriousness though, if you don't consider yourself a
by industrykiller
This site isn't for you. It's for the people who truly love cinema. Clearly a lot of you don't fit that category. If you like everything you see then chances are you are probably pretty easily entertained so go play with a bouncy ball or something. And I can already hear the fools saying "no we love cinema, you are the one whod oesn't like anything) Loving something is not loving everything about it. Geeks naysay because they want to improve the quality of the films they watch. And we do it before the movie comes out because it's easy to see warning signs of a terrible film (RATner directing is a big one to those in the know) and since it's common knowledge that studios read this site (I think Kai's post proves that) we actually have a hsot at making some improvements. And if it doesn't bother you that they did thins like totally change Doom then obviously you dont really like the Fantastic Four to begin with. Why the fuck would it bother you so much that the real fans actually care? Also to kai about how we bitch and then go see the movie anyway. Actually I dind't go see it, I caught it on bootleg, they didn't get a dime of my money.
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HOW FREAKING HARD IS IT TO FIGURE OUT THAT "LOSE" IS THE OPPOSITE OF WIN AND "LOOSE" IS THE OPPOSITE OF TIGHT!! I SEE THIS ON THE INTERNET EVERY DAY AND I'M FED UP.. that is all. http://www.dictionary.com/
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..it's no different than paying your money to see your favourite team play Football or Baseball,then being horrified to see these overpaid hacks show a lack of dedication to their fans.Trust me,if you're an England International Football team follower you'll know the feeling every fuckin' World Cup.It's the same with cinema..Love it,want it to be the best,heartbroken when it's a wasted opportunity for greatness.
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Nice to see there are still some good guys left
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my bad
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Cue the confetti and lower the duck!
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I enjoyed it. A lot. And don't give me any of this "real fan" crap. I was reading Fantastic Four before most of your parents were even old enough to have sex. I almost didn't go see it because of crap on this website and others. Luckily I read Peter David's blog and convince me otherwise. I saw one of the most accurate translation of any Marvel property. Ok, Dr Doom wasn't all that he could be. Big freakin deal. He is still 9 million miles closer to the Dr. Doom of the original comic book than say Green Power Ranger Goblin or Doc Oct. They got the FF right. Even The Thing looked like he walked off the pages of an early 60's FF. (newsflash, comics existed before the mid 90s when your mommies took you to your first comic store)
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Jul 19, 2005 12:17:51 PM CDT
I seriously want one of the "casuals" to tell me why that is suc
by industrykiller
You people have movies made directly at you all the god damn time. All film geeks try to do is improve them. I guarantee you would love an F4 film that fulfills the fans vision (no I dind't want a dark character examination) just as much if not mroe than you loved your unarguably hack job. F4 fans have been waiting years and years for a film version, we deserve to be pleased more than you do. Just wait for the new Eddie Murphy film. I'm sorry if people making clear concise arguments as to whyt eh movie wasn't any good makes you feel stupid for liking it, but it was a film totally lacking in originality, vision, or even a hint of depth. What is wrong with wanting that? To us comic book films aren't shitty cartoon fair and if they are to you then you don't understand so pelase leave us alone and find a different site to hang out at.
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Because in no fucking way was Doom closer than the Green Goblin in the spider man film except maybe in look. And look is only half the fucking battle. In fact I would rather them change the look slightly and retain the character, which was NOTHING like the comic. SO don't call me some half-fan because you are older; because frankly that doesn't give youa fucking ounce of authority over me. Jackass
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Jul 19, 2005 12:23:52 PM CDT
This guy doesn't want a sequel, he wants a remake. And he&#
by movietool
'nuff said.
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My knowledge of the comic is actuall fairly limited but I have some. I thought the visuals and use of color had a flair that Tim Story could have learned from in Fantastic Four and the prosthetics were good but the film itself and plot weren't any better than F4 and that ending (so the God everyone is scared of is resurrected and hten subsequently killed with a grenade? Well that was fucking easy) ugh. Perlman made a good Hellboy though, that's pretty unarguable. I'm certainly no Hellboy apologist.
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then leave. this site is for us by us. not you.
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There's gotta be some Zen like philosophy hidden in there, somewhere. I'll have to meditate on this further. Look, Shane, a studio that pulled in $100mil in two weeks time on a movie that found legs despite the competition released the weekends before and afterward, well... this studio is as likely to take your ideas into consideration as they are to finance your 15 minute concept of what you think the FF is supposed to be. Negative Man handed you your ass regarding Doom's comic origin. And I'll write it again for the kadrillionth time, Story WAS WAY MORE FAITHFUL adapting the source material than Singer was with the X-Men films.
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Dude,seriously..I see your point,I don't mind if people liked the film-nothing wrong with enjoying yourself,it's just that a lot of people who liked the cmics and (seem) to know the characters wanted a little more faithfulness,I guess,to THEIR own memories which I suppose is impossible but....I think anyone will concur that the amount of money churned into these movies you kind of expect the makers to ...well..adapt them AS faithfully as possible because surely if they lose their target audience what guarantee at all do they have OF an audience?And I'm certainly not an aged ol' cronie but I've been pouring over Marvel comics for 30 years.Not as much as some,I admit but old enough to see through the horror of the early '90s "foil wrapped" monstrosities.I'm not up for these Ultimate 'adaptions',they're not to my taste (akin to reading alternate dimension stuff)but -no offence-go ahead and enjoy,more powerr to you.Perhaps this movie will at least get kids readinmg the reprints of the ol' issues(It'd give me a chance to,as well).Peace and vegetable rights.
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we could do with your kind in the Phantom Zone. 866 or e-mail doc.
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That's all we need sequels to shit, with the same cast and director.
Here is a quote from Alba:
Meanwhile, Ms Alba had her mind on more matters maternal "Tim put secrets in this movie that he's going to reveal in the next one, and I think we have to get the Fantasticar -
"film queers".........you fucking retard....haven't seen you here before son,you got a lot to learn....what're you doing in a talkback surrounded by us "queers" then...Christ,talk about denial......personally I have absolutely no desire to go to a paedophile chat back.So I don't.The type of people on one would be,in my opinion,PERVERTS.So why would someone as wonderfully straight as you come on a "queer" talkback?...Just come out,Red.Come out and get down on your knees and do what you were born for....Your not my type,but hey!Bygones and all that.Twat.
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"Villians! We want Villians!" Sorry but that reminds of the Ambush Bug villain named -- Villian.
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I'll try and show face,John.Thanks for the invite.
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They already fucked the first movie. The marketing sold it. Let's get a few things straight - the cast are SHIT! There, that's a few things. Another few things that are shit are the director, writers, concept artists and VFX crew. Anyway, none of that really matters because there's ZERO potential for Fantastic Four. I could never see the first movie being good. Leave it to the Incredibles. The Human Torch is the worst thing ever, as is Doom. The worst comic ever, period. It's just fanwank. FF fanboys masturbating over their wet dreams coming to life. Sure, the same thing applies to many adaptations. However, most of them are worthwhile and have potential, FF is NOT one of these. Not unless is was turned into a hard R franchise, maybe. I'm not putting too much faith in the new Supes movie, but at least the characters are infinitely better than FF, and Singer has already proven that he CAN get his ass into gear and deliver a good movie. FF was made totally for the wrong reasons.
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As a long time (and I'm talking since 1974) comic book fan, I've come to be disappointed in most "comic book movies" because of they are NEVER like the friggin' comic books. They are not comic book movies but movies where comic book characters exist in a real world. It's not to say that there isn't something to like about them. As many of you have pointed out, Spiderman, X-Men, Batman (Begins) and Superman all worked really well in the context of the real world, and it seems that's the only way live-action superhero films have worked, so far. Someone pointed out in this thread that Spiderman lost it when Green Goblin appeared and they fought. Why? Well, that's when Spiderman went "comic book". Fantastic Four is about as comic book as you can get. Anyone who knows anything about the FF knows that the, well, fantastic nature of their world, their space, their villians, Kirby, outer space, all those stories from the 60's and the 70's: the golden age of the FF is what made them The World's Greatest Comic Magazine. That was the secret to the FF's success, and THAT was comic book at it's best. My point is, if you can't make a comic book movie like a comic book and have the film work, you really can't make a good FF movie. Can you make a comic book into a movie? It really needs the right people behind it with lots of money and no studio interference (ie: no one making creative decisions based on the question: will it keep a mass audience if we do this?) In other words, no, one can't be made. Now, of course you could animate one and do whatever you want, but you need American minds using Japanese cel studios and artistry. Can that be done? If I ever win the mega lottery for $300 million, I will make Silver Surfer or Doctor Strange, I promise.
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Is anyone fucking as tired of this rendition of superhero costumes as I am? FF/Spiderman/Superman aside, why must every superhero wear body armor in black and cowls with the eyes cut out?
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Much like Singer did with X-2. But some of the specifics listed above are just too specific. I think out of all of the elements that worked in the movie, Michael Chiklis and his performance as the Thing were truly the best. And I don't think there's any reasonable way to expect that a CGI version would be any better. Mainly because Fox has shown they aren't willing to spend any more money on this thing, and will likely cut the budget to the sequel. I do think they should experiment with the make-up, and start making Ben's skin more rocky, and add a little more browline. But still keep it somewhere in the realm of believability. Also, as has been stated previously, Marvel sold the rights to Silver Surfer and Galactus to different studio, so give up any hope of seeing that in FF2. I think the Negative Zone or the Super Skrull would work bets, as well as seieng the return of Dr. Doom, having conquered Latveria and become the monarch we know. At least they set the ground work. And it was shiny and happy enough that people took their kids to see it. For the first week anyway. Then the take was split equally between the kids (Charlie and the Chocolate Factory) and adults (The Wedding Crashers).
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......interesting to see that you intepreted my blowing you off and general amusement with the apparent rant that you dished out, as being some sort of an act of capitulation on my part and agreeing with you. Is there really any other surprise or mystery as to why I found your original post to be wildly hilarious and consequently, tragically sad, once I realized that you were actually being serious? I still can't tell, though, with any firm degree of certainty, whether you really are as serious and passionate as you seem to be or if there's some element of tongue-in-cheek. Your comments ("......; because frankly that doesn't give youa fucking ounce of authority over me. Jackass", " F4 fans have been waiting years and years for a film version, we deserve to be pleased more than you do.", "And if you casuals don't like film geeks then leave. this site is for us by us. not you."....) seem to suggest that you are indeed serious, but your argumentative logic ( not to mention chronic grammatic and spelling challenges) seem to suggest something entirely different; something more akin to humour; the sort you find when a joke goes so horribly wrong, that it ultimately becomes funny again out of sheer tragic-comedic sympathy. Nonetheless, you seem rather desperate to bait a 'casual' into a debate, like they have the answers as to why the studios are more interested in their attention and approval as opposed to yours. It's just too bad that Harold wil let anyone into GEEKdom, these days. Sigh, one can only reminisce of days when 'TRUE geeks' and 'TRUE movie-lovers' as you so aptly and eloquently put it could congregate together at sites such as this one, and commiserate over film projects gone wrong and not have to worry about 'casuals' poking their uninformed noses in and contaminating the site with their ignorant posts. Sigh,.... those were the days......Right, IndustryKiller!?
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......I'm sorry, did that last bit come off as too sarcastic....
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I gotta say, after all the venom people were shouting about this movie and horrible reviews, I was surprised that I actually liked this movie. Plot holes, unaccurate Dr. Doom and not MY ideal Thing (he needs the brow) aside I enjoyed the movie. Yes, I believe I had lowered expectations before I went to see FF, but overall better than DD, Elektra, Hulk, not as good as X2, Batman Begins. There were 'plenty' of things that I would have done different, but not all movies are perfect. Hopefully they will learn from the mistakes, unlike Tomb Raider, and improve the Sequel (please God!) Because like Harry said we DESERVE a great FF. Give them a Bigger Budget! ...and industry killer, you are alone, in your mom's basement.
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Once again I will take your lack of an actual retort to mys tatements as an agreement. A safe bet given thet it's two replies and still no argument. So I'm glad we are on teh same page and you have submitted. Kudos. Takes a big person to admit theya re wrong but you went right ahead and did it. I'm sorry is my typing confusing you? Was never the best typist I confess. And it seems that I just don't care to go over my posts on the internet with a fine tooth comb or spell check them such as yourself. And here I thought I was the one that took this site more seriously than you, but clearly someone so uptight over typos has me trumped. That's ok, I'll take being right and you can take the award for better typist.
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But I'm also right again....oh me.
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More Alba. Less clothes.
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Actually it seems like quite a few geeks also liked it. 2 out of every 3 geeks here are using the "Popcorn movie", "leave your brain at the door", "enjoy it for what it is", "I'm not searching for a cure for cancer, just a fun 2 hours" bullshit. These are the same geeks that are going to give "Stealth" a strong opening and more ammo to Hollywood to keep churning out this crap because they are proven cash cows.
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So yeah...maybe the Four was a decent movie...it had great ideas, a praise worthy cast, however, it could have been pursued differently. The special effects looked like they may have been done by Spectral Motion's junior animators, and the fact that The Thing had the balls to go see his wife 10 seconds after he transformed into a hideous hard turd was somewhat unbelievable. However, yes TarlCabot, you will be shot for saying it was better than Batman begins, which far surpassed the Fantastic Four in every theatrical element imaginable
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"I... HUNGER, brother!!!"
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Jul 19, 2005 2:04:29 PM CDT
I'd Rather See HULK 2 then be subjected to a sequel to an
by zombikiller86
Then again, I'd see it only if they got all the origins right and not pull this ultimates shit.
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.....the two replies, I made were actually an attempt, ( futile, now it seems) to get you to realize how much of a joke you are, and not really geared to any degree nor with any magnitude of effort, at engaging you in an intellectual argument. I had vainly hoped you would have figured out by now why it is that I (or seemingly no one else for that matter) is reluctant to argue with you about this, but I guess, in addition to sarcasm and backhanded humour, certain concepts just seem to be way way above your cerebral amplitude,. 'Twas worth a try, nonetheless. Notice (as I'm sure you will in your everlasting quest for an intellectual sparring partner; assuming there exists any, who functions at as low cranial wattage as you seemingly do) that even this THIRD response still contains no semblance of an argument too. Doubtless you will take is as an agreement which is just as fine with me, seeing as that option involves wasting far less energy than endevouring to exlain a concept... any concept, to you. Cheerio!
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this franchise is dead to me now, just like x3. I have no faith in the production team behind F4 if they went from a great, filmable, tightly budgeted, DOABLE script to the peice of shit they filmed and slapped on the screen. They're over eager decleration of a sequel just shows they are not thinking straight. This sequel will get rushed into production. It'll get a horrible script and a lower budget and mole man (which will suck unless they get Andy Milonakis to play him...with woobie at his side of course.) It would be pretty funny if after FF2 Arad and Rothman'a antics cause Story to leave and be replaced by Ratner. Ahh the flavor of the day. I see a 07 release for this shit.
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Cursed with bad taste and sad faux-intellectual insulting skills as you are.
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Ioan Gruffudd is my favorite actor in that movie. His role in the wonderful Horatio Hornbower movies was superb.
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I just watched the first 5 minutes of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and had to switch it off... WHY??? Because Tim Burton has English people saying "The only thing that comes out of that factory is the candy" and.. "Hope you find that candy bar" - this is bollocks!!! We call it a 'chocolate bar'... and 'chocolate'... not candy! The only candy I know is a fat, dead actor who did a good job in The Blues Brothers. Its like calling the first Harry Potter film 'the sorcerers stone' because some studio exec thought that Americans wouldnt get 'the philosophers stone'. Newsflash to the execs and Tim Burton... we are all pretty smart and dont need your linguistic training-wheels to help us through the cinematic experience. I ACTUALLY do work in a chocolate factory (no shit neither!)... but I guess it must now be a candy factory! Sorry to interrupt your flow... GALACTUS ROCKS!!!!
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ther's still Superman Returns, Batman Begins Some More, Spider-man 3, V for Vendetta (which has a good chance of either not sucking or only sucking a little near the end.) and a shitload of other characters in production that have the potential of not being a downer. Oh, and Wolverine's Asian Vacation.
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...Stephen Sommers (The Mummy) or Paul Anderson (Alien Vs Predator) direct the sequel. I think they would knock it right out of the park for being the all round family entertainment that it should be. They'd get some passionate performances along with great FX. Any of these two are perfect. Who's with me on this?
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...Stephen Sommers (The Mummy) or Paul Anderson (Alien Vs Predator) direct the sequel. I think they would knock it right out of the park for being the all round family entertainment that it should be. They'd get some passionate performances along with great FX. Any of these two are perfect. Who's with me on this?
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Jul 19, 2005 2:20:58 PM CDT
Batman Begins should teach you posters something about Hollywood
by juleslogan
they FINALLY get it right after numerous shitty tries! Only after a franchise completely bombs, will they greenlight a feature for the geeks. Before that marketing, PR, actors, etc. needs are addressed before the geeks. MONEY is the bottom line folks! If we ain't gonna get paid (get everyone in the seats not just the comic fans) we are not going to fork over $80mill. Hollywood is not making these movies geared towards the comic fans (otherwise the XMEN franchise would have had frickin' Sentinels by now! and we would have seen HULK SMASH!) Movies are not comic books!
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Jul 19, 2005 2:21:40 PM CDT
"Cursed with bad taste and sad faux-intellectual insulting skill
by kai_mah'gra
LOL.........anymore where that came from? Did you actually come up with it yourself, 'in your mom's basement' as someone else so keenly noted? Like I said before, keep them coming.....every court needs a jester. "....sad faux-intellectual insulting skills"
.........that's very funny; hilarious really. -
....I was supposed to be insulted by that,and not amused, right? Oh. Okay.....well, then here goes; (ahem) Why, you bastard, how dare you sully my reputation like that!!! You will pay for this.......Insolent buffoon. How dare you!!! How dare you!!
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This is unsalvageable in a sequel. Just let it die and try again in 10 years.
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Keep up the good work, Kai_Mah'gra and IndustryKiller. Quite amusing you people are, bashing eachother with your attempts to see who can use the most elaborate words in your insults over something so inconsequent.
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Jul 19, 2005 2:44:26 PM CDT
It rubs the lotion on its skin, or else it gets the hose again..
by brit pop
Why dont they get Orson Welles to direct FF2, then you can all talk about how he used lighting and 'ahead of its time sfx' to really make the film a classic... and how you could really see what he was trying to insinuate in that particular scene. That way you could lick the boots of the director without really ever watching the film! Oh Wait... was he a great big fat person??!!??
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Bryan Singer is gay.
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HULK being the most underated and underappreceated superhero movie EVER. the only reason people didn't like it was beacuse it wasn't 2 hours of "HULK SMASH!" backed by some terrible, irritating nu-metal whiney suburban white kid shit rock. FF was fine. they fucked some shit up, but it was NOWHERE NEAR as bad as some as you are saying it is. i reckon FF 2 could improve upon the misteps in FF 1 (like the Dr. Doom debacle) and be a better potential film overall.
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I'm under the assumption that the majority of people here respect comic books. Especially when they are being adapted into a film. So I'm wondering: Why are most of you making excuses for how horrible the films are? "It was fun." "Sometimes when I go to movies I want an escape." "Its based on a comic book, what did you expect, CITIZEN KANE?" "Its a summer movie, its not supposed to cure cancer." Excuses, excuses, excuses. Are you so desperate to believe you are living in an influential time within the realm of your life's passion (comics, movies), that you're willing to make excuses for every single one of its flaws? FANTASTIC FOUR, taking into account its source material, was absolutely awful. That's not an opinion of a "nitpicking fanboy" or whatever other label you give people or things that do not confirm your own prejudices; its the truth. "Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and there is no RIGHT opinion..." I disagree with this thinking. Things ARE just better than others. And this film (FANTASTIC FOUR) with all the other comic book adaptations (yes, ALL of them), are very mediocre, again, especially taking into account their source material. JAWS, RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, STAR WARS, and all the other staples that film-makers and us use to justify our romanticism, didn't cure cancer either. And they were escapist fun. And they weren't CITIZEN KANE. But, they were better. They were better than ANY of the summer movies that come out today. What happened? Why are we accepting this dreck? Again, are we just so DESPERATE to have our own JAWS, RAIDERS, STAR WARS, etc. that we'll just accept ANYTHING? With comic books we finally have stories that have the potential of giving us the same great movies that, for some, we grew up watching and admiring. Instead, we're getting FANTASTIC FOUR. But, hey... it was fun, right? And the kids. Its all about the kids. The kids LOVED it! ...they also love playing in cardboard boxes.
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Will it have Sue Richards ramming an invisible force-field 12-inch double headed dildo into Reed's fully invertable flexi mangina?
Just asking.. -
It is confusing though. Why make excuses for these movies? If you enjoyed them fine but let's expect a little more. I think it's that a lot of these people are casual film fans who not only don't care if they get an investing experience, but don't want it. The investment of life is too much for some people so they can't handle anything beyond childish art. COnsequently they come here and see people making credible arguments for why the movie they loved so much is terrible and they are insulted because they are made to feel that they are easily amused, which they are, but still no one likes to feel that way. I also think a lot of the more hardcore fans have been beaten down with one terrible film after the other that they just gave up. It's too bad. I do appreciate though that they never actually try to defend the movie, they just throw around the average jingoism such as "popcorn" and "cheap thrills". At least they no there is no logic to their point of view.
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There will never be another movie that comes out and surprises us like Star Wars, Jaws, Raiders, etc. Every movie nowdays is a re-make or based off of some other marketable property. Hollywood doesn't equal originality. Too many chiefs not enough Indians! Hollywood is a big act. How many movies truly inspire anyone listening on this post anymore. Jaws, Raiders all those movies are decades old now! Heck, Harrison Ford coming back for Indy is a joke! Rehash, and cash in! lemmings, 1984, blah, blah, blah
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As if the studio execs will listen to what the old-school fans will want to see. "lets see guys, we were mauled by the critics, but the first movie made a lot of cash. do we go to the trouble of hiring a new director/cast/crew to please the Four's original fans? Or do we just roll on with the product-placement-o-rama?" hmmm...
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Jul 19, 2005 3:20:49 PM CDT
loafroaster I'll go with Product-placement-o-rama for $1000
by juleslogan
Let's take a comic book with vague fanbase interest (lets face it, none of my 'casual' friends even knew who the FF4 were) and market it to all ages and cash in! We will make 3 shitty sequels NON of which live up to the original fanbase expectations. Oneday 'creatives' (i use this term looooosely) will pitch us a good idea, they will jump through our numerous hoops, and maybe we can give the fanboys what they want....but still make SHITLOADS!
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Yeah!
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I've said it before & I'll restate it here - the next FF should be more geared away from the toddlers & aimed at the most vulnerable part of the more aged demographic; their groins. Sue Storm & Mr. Fantastic need to have a steamy love scene, wherein we see the real benefit of having body parts that can shape themselves & stretch in really interesting ways. Talk about memorable scenes...
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Jul 19, 2005 3:59:08 PM CDT
Guys, guys, really there is no point in speculation on a second
by doc_strange
If it's being done, it's gonna suck, there's no denying it. God I wish I could be a studio exec, someone with half a brain could change this industry and we all know it's due for a change.
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Needs to be more fantastic. The first movie was good but could have been better. If they want to build up and keep some momentum they need to go crazy but not like Harry suggests. Kirby visuals would never work on screen. Those crazy backgrounds will make it look like an Austin Powers movie. They need a grander villain though. Mole Man would be great and that creature busting out from the streets of NY would make a great action sequence. Galctus is too cosmic and would need to be 3 or 4 movies into the series.
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Jul 19, 2005 4:22:57 PM CDT
SPIDERMAN, NIGHTCRAWLER and BATMAN are my favorite comicbook cha
by b a m f !
...and I have been fortunate enough to live long enough to see EACH one of them have justice done (for the most part) to the source material in a live action film. (SPIDEY's 1&2, X-MEN 2 and BATMAN BEGINS) I guess you could classify me as a typical "Comic Geeek" as i've been collecting for just about as long as i've been able to read. (Blame an uncle for handing me a copy of "SPIDEY SUPER STORIES" waaaay back when) All that said whenever I see a live-action adaption i'm hoping that 1.)They remain as true to the characters and source material as possible 2.) They capture the essence of what made ME enjoy the comicbook so much.
The thing I always liked most about the F.F. was the fact that it felt like I was reading about the adventures of a close knit FAMILY who coincidentally also happened to have Super Powers. Even when going back and discovering the classic and definitive STAN LEE/JACK KIRBY run, I found that I enjoyed the dynamic of how the wildly different personalities of REED, SUE, BEN and JOHNNY interacted with each other as much as I enjoyed the 'fantastic' situations they inevitably found themselves in. (pun intended =P) That's the MAIN thing that I wanted to see captured on screen when I went to see the FF movie. Admittedly because of all of the bad word-of-Mouth I had lowered my expectations considerably. I make NO excuses though, because in my heart of hearts, I wish they would have made a movie that TRULY captured the potential and grand scope of what a movie aout the FANTASTIC FOUR should be. That said, I went in with the hope that they at the very LEAST captured the essence of how they emotionally come together to be the (quite often) dysfunctional, and coincidentally super powered FAMILY that they are in the books. And you know what? For me the movie accomplished that. The setting for a large part of the movie, which is basically just them being cooped up in the Baxter Building and learning to deal with not only their powers but EACH OTHER, was ideal for that. In light of all of the horrible things i'd been hearing about the film I was almost shocked to see that they met my expectations in that regard.
I've got a feeling that's a LARGE part of why the film is *gasp* actually going to be FINANCIALLY SUCCESSFUL. YES it had a 60% drop off in Box office last weekend but take into account that it was churning in about 5-6 million dollars a DAY right up until going up against CHOCOLATE FACTORY and CRASHERS.
I for one am ecstatic that there is going to be a sequel because now they have a chance to dig in and really GET IT RIGHT.
A great analogy that was brought up earlier is what i'm hoping for ... eternal optimist that I am, i'm looking for FF2 to be as decidedly better than FF1 as STAR TREK II: The WRATH OF KHAN was from STAR TREK: The MOTION PICTURE. With a sequel we at least HAVE that possibility. BAMF! -
With regard to FF, I own hundreds of FF issues spanning over a 20 years, including minis and spin-offs, and I walked out of the theater pleased. Very pleased. Granted, there were some groaner moments (bikini bridge, lingerie rendezvous, the cure, electric Highlander), but there were far too few groaner moments to eliminate a true FF fan from enjoying the movie. There are some unforgivable weaknesses, such as the complete lack of score, which is one example of something folks should be bitching about. Not the handling of the Doom character, or who was cast as Sue, or Reed appearing to be the same age as Johnny, or Johnny abusing his flobee. The things that we
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Okay, this is one fans wet dream for the sequel. But here goes:
I would keep stuff simple. Nothing too cost crazy. First, I would go back to the basics. For the title I would use the logo on the first one hundred so issues of the FF. The typed kind. That to me is a simple thing.
Second, redesign the Baxter Building and give me the Fantasticar(the tub or other model). I would update the Thing. Give him the look he has now. You could use the excuse that his body is just getting used to the effects of the cosmic rays. Make the characters stronger. Especially Reed. Stretch some balls. This includes Doom. Have him already be the ruler of Latveria. The gang cannot touch him because of his diplomatic immunity. But he can go after them. Have a scene where the FF confront him and it turns out to be a doombot.Have Doom team up with a skrull: the Super Skrull played by Willem DaFoe. Have the skrull try to destroy the FF by turning them against one another. I also love what another post said about having a montage of villians in battle with the FF. We get a taste of everything. -
Jul 19, 2005 4:37:05 PM CDT
Fantastic? - not quite. 4? - no. 3? Yeah 3/5 sounds about right
by knugen
Stop being so serious about crazy ass comics like F4! Geez...
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Most of Shane's comments were on the money, but remember: any first superhero flick has to either have the origin or set up the premise, which hampers the story. Now that it's out of the way, the sequel can go hog wild and include so many of the things people love with the FF. However, when the sequel starts, it should be with a new writer and director. The casting was fine, but the story was weak and there were too many things that should have been better. I'm beginning to think that Barbershop was the anomoly with Tim Story, not Taxi.
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Jul 19, 2005 4:49:57 PM CDT
BAMF, are you certain justice was done to Nightcrawler?
by immortal_fish
Like sarge said in Full Metal Jacket, "Goddamn, are you fuckin
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They fooled a lot of moviegoers into seeing an awful film and made a lot of money in the process. But the huge 2nd weekend drop should be a sign... word of mouth for this film is bad, the majority of the people people that went to see it feel as if they were tricked out of their money, and they aren't going to be lining up to see the sequel. Even if they have a good script and actually hire a real director for the sequel, people will still have a bad taste in their mouths from the first one. Look at what happened with CHARLIE'S ANGELS 2, TOMB RAIDER 2, LEGALLY BLONDE 2, and (though it doesn't entirely count) ELEKTRA.
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From what I've seen, a 40-60% dropoff is pretty much expected for a front loaded summer 'event' movie where everyone sees it openning weekend. Batman Begins had a 45% dropoff second weekend. That's less than FF but not by a heck of a lot.
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The Ulitmate FF comic hurries up get these characters featured. oh I hope you guys didn't think I meant the sequels. Fat chance of any of those classic FF characters showing up in a movie. I can tell you all right now who to expect. Doom as the villian for the next two films if they make it to a 3rd. Not much is going to change in terms of set design, look and tone of this movie. As someone mentioned we may get a better looking Thing and story, especailly since the crtics ripped the film to shreds and FOX despite making some money off this movie isn't happy with the mostly negative reviews this film got cause those cost them some millions. I'll also go so far as to add a cameo of the Fantasticar sitting in Reed's lab. Probably an unfinished prototype, but it won't fly. All of the fantastic elements and adventures to the negative zone and Reed's inventions and any of the other fantastic elements that are known with the F4 are already out the window. This FOX, and the only thing FOX did somewhat right is that the F4 film didn't suck. No it was not a good movie, but I enjoyed it. It should been so much more, but i won't even go down that road. FOX is cheap and isn't going to hire a director with the vision for this this type of project. They will stick pretty much to what worked and try and iron out what made the critic tear this film apart. We can expect another been there and done that in other films of things that worked. We won't get anything original or visually stunning. Just as Doom mentioned to his assistant that Reed just doesn't know what he has, well it's the same with FOX, they don't know what they have in terms on making money. F4 could've easily made Spiderman like money, but again FOX just doesn't realize what they have in this potential money train.
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word of mouth will spread the news and it won't bomb like your examples. The movies you mention had horrible first films and in some cases worse sequels. What about the Star Trek1, to Khan argument? (like any of us have faith in the FF4 franchise pulling that off)
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Founder. I don't feel like Fox knows what they have. Like you said we won't get the Fantasicar possibly just a prop piece. They don't like showing characters flying, too much money. That's why we have a Rogue who can't fly, and MINIMAL shots of Storm flying. We can't have flying superheroes!!! That too much $$$$, and who would believe that. The only reason why they were able to have the Human Torch, is because he was fully CGI no actors suspended in the air. God Fox really is doing these movies on the cheap, damn...
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As much as I dislike the origin of Doom in the FF4 movie, I think it could work to give rise to the Doom we all know and love. Right now Doom is a doorstop. How do you recover from such a situation? Science alone can't do it! So have Doom's inner circle turn to the occult! Doom is reanimated, but horribly scarred. He now has powers derived from both technology and the dark arts. He hates Reed for disfiguring him (as should be the case). And his focus can shift from making money to ruling the world! So yeah... his backstory is kinda goofed up, but he'll more resemble the character we love from the comics. 'Nuff said!
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Jul 19, 2005 5:44:49 PM CDT
YES there were things they missed with movie NIGHTCRAWLER...
by b a m f !
...but overall I felt SINGER and co. definitely captured the ESSENCE of Kurt Wagner and touched on a LOT of the things that makes him one of my all-time favorite comic characters. (The same way I feel that the F.F. movie captured the essence of THE HUMAN TORCH and THE THING)
I am a LIFELONG raving X-MEN lunatic in general and a HUUUUHUGE NIGHTCRAWLER fanatic in particular so if ANYONE wanted to see a well-done Kurt Wagner on screen it was me. Were there a LOT of things I DIDNT like about Movie-Kurt? Heck yeah! HATED the 'Shark Teeth'. Giving him his comic book FANGS would have been INFINITELY cooler. Wasnt too crazy about the SCARS/TATOOS either. Also in light of how kick @ss the OPENING SEQUENCE was I would have really enjoyed seeing him get ANOTHER opportunity to cut loose later on in the film. I was happy that they were saavy enough to have the NIGHTCRAWLER/MYSTIQUE scene but I agree with you in that they could have gone a LOT deeper and done a lot more with it. Overall though I think they nailed the ESSENCE of the character.
* KURT's MISCHEVIOUS/HUMOROUS SIDE? Check.
* KURT's BRAVERY and SELFLESSNESS? Check.
* KURT's FAITH and THE STRENGTH OF HIS CONVICTIONS? Check.
* KURT's UPLIFTING/POSITIVE NATURE IN THE FACE OF A LIFETIME OF HATRED AND FEAR? Check.
* And coolest of all JUST HOW BAD @SS KURT COULD BE IF HE EVER CUT LOOSE? Double Check!!
In the comics he actually LOVED his life in the Circus, so him taking pride in being "THE INCREDIBLE NIGHTCRAWLER" is actually right on point. Kurt only hated it once tycoon Amos Jardine bought it and wanted to take him off of the trapeze and put him in the freak show.
Also in the comics Kurt isnt studying to be a Priest anymore. He's back to his preferred flirtatious, fun loving (though responsible ) self. Trust me if I felt they dropped the ball with NIGHTCRAWLER i'd be the loudest voice screaming bloody murder. Instead I left X2 with a BIG smile on my face and a sense of pride as I heard moviegoer after moviegoer rave about "HOW COOL THAT BLUE GUY WAS!!" All the more heartbreaking that CUMMING/KURT wont be back for X3 =(
To keep this at least a LITTLE on topic I think the ONE positive thing almost universally acknowledged about F.F. was the great job EVANS and CHIKLIS did as the TORCH and THING respectively... BAMF! -
Yes, $100 million is a good figure. But that doesn't take into account the amount spent on advertising this film. Was there anywhere to turn and avoid FF ads? I was just in Mexico last week, and there were ads for the film on all the food there as well. Sure, some are trade-offs, but they carpet bombed the hell out of that film. It's the Hollywood strategy of expending everything for that opening weekend, and hoping that the public will go see it because it appears that everyone else did. They didn't. Does anyone remember the film "Congo", that actually made a bundle its first weekend due to hype? It doesn't seem too difficult to generate a certain amount on opening if a film doesn't have serious competition and you open your pockets. Let's see what happens next week with "Charlie" and whether a well-made, well-cast film drops off 60%.
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i agree. fantastic four would beat titanic's domestic gross by a wide margin had the director but a nice little chest action for alba in the film
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The best upgrade ever between the original and sequel was Spider-Man 1 & 2. I vowed never to go to another Spidey film after the travesty of the original (I've never heard an even slightly coherent defense of that stupid Goblin mask -- why get a real actor and then eliminate any chance of his actually being able to act??), but they won me back with positive reviews from sites like AICN, and a villain better than the hero. Can FF do the same? Doubtful, since at least Spidey 1 treated the source material with respect, and they had a decent director.
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i swear the writer just SHITTED that damn script right out. What a load of crap. I've never felt more sorry for actors in my life. they tried so hard. shit like "You're on fire!" fucking pissed me off, cos I knew it was coming a MILE off. Alba, chiklis and gruffudd were good, as good as they could be with that fucked up script, anyway. Oh, Chiklis said he wouldnt be involved if they had CG'ed his character. They wasted the "It's clobberin time!" scene. the film just sucked so bad that I actually enjoyed it. But Doom was DULL. I half expected him to pick up a cat and start stroking it, the way he was going with that arch, typical villain.
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at all films.
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Jul 19, 2005 6:14:37 PM CDT
This movie is better than it's rating at rottentomatoes.com.
by red raider
Like the previous posts have stated, it's a film that doesn't take itself too seriously, yet succeeds in telling the origin of the Fantastic Four, has some excellent action scenes, and is a very funny film. I got a kick out of it. Is it the best comic book film ever? No, not by a long shot. But I can easily think of about 10 other comic book films that are worse than F4. Thank you Tim Story, & bring on the sequel.
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Jul 19, 2005 6:15:23 PM CDT
There isn't much point in this "they should have done " talk
by kuryakin
Fact is they didn't and won't. You will never get a FF movie which features all the characters and stories you want - partly because it's a bitch figuring out who owns the rights to what; partly because of cost; partly because of 90 to 100 minute running time meaning too much exposition of WHO these people are; mostly becasue the people making these films don't give a shit about the comics. Even if they are fans they are primarily interested in making films - and successful ones at that. If they were so into comic books they would be writing them. I would have preferred the FF movie to not be an origin movie, to feature a much older cast (with kids to boot) and an already established and well-loved Fantastic Four. Oh well - it didn't happen. Luckily we still have the comics to read and enjoy. You know who I would have liked as Reed though? Clooney. I guess he's an obvious choice but I think he has the gravitas to play the 'serious' Reed but also the sense of humour to play the more mischievous or risk-taking Reed. Of course, I also thought Pamela Anderson would be a good Sue Storm, so my opinion might not count for much. ( Seriously though. She has the body, the hair, the MILF quality... And despite the Hep-C having, rockstar-sucking she's known for I think she has a kind of disarming sweetness to her that in he right hands would make her a pretty decent superhero/pinup/mother. Those hands of course, being my own sweaty ones) Of course what we'll get in the next movie is more of the same chit with maybe a CG Thing voiced by Fatman Scoop. C'est la vie!
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You're not a studio suit are you? Just kidding. Maybe. All I was trying to say is that our expectations as moviegoer in general are so low that being the good bean counters that they are, Hollywood execs only give us what we demand. If we as moviegoers accept a level of incompetance in writing and directing then we're not going to get anything more than that. Fun, FX laden action and competant writing and direction are not mutually exclusive but the general consensus is that they are and that was what I was bitching about. So sorry if I sounded pretentious but unlike a lot of talkbackers, I was not trying to flame anyone specific. And thanks, IndustryKiller.
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First of all, I'm not a fan of the X-Men despite a few stand-out faves (Iceman and Collossus), so I yield to you about Kurt's past. You can only pick up so much backstory when characters cross over from one book you don't collect to another that you do! Most of all, I want to thank you for pointing out the redeeming qualities in the movie adaptation of this character that I'd mostly forgotten about, as well as pointing out a few anomalies I hadn't picked up on earlier (shark teeth). Ultimately, what really, REALLY pisses me off is how folks enter a forum such as this to blast directors like Story for being 'unfaithful' to the source material while simultaneously praising Singer and Raimi for the polar opposite. Such is not the case. To borrow the words of Egg Chen, each of them treated their source material as a salad bar... he took what he wanted and left the rest. Yet the Harry zombies can't see this for what it is. And you know what? It's okay! It's an *adaptation*! There are bound tobe differences. Providing they aren't major departures, then I'm cool with it. And when you consider the FF movie as an amalgam of all its various comic and animated forms, it was WAY MORE FAITHFUL than Singer's movies. Granted, with regard to quality and overall impact, Singer's movies have a leaning edge on Story's effort, but that's mostly due to the better, more experienced actors he had to work with that deserve this credit, not Singer. And Story deserves the second shot to impress that Singer and Raimi had. Can't help but wonder if TB chat would have been different had FF came out before X1 and Spidey1.
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With all your hollaring about art in film and the absense thereof, what are your thoughts on Ang Lee's Hulk?
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Thats the sequel that needs to be made. Daredevil was better than FF, Hulk or the 1st Spiderman. Espeacially the directors cut.
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Erm, well... to each their own! I would have enjoyed seeing a Jurassic Park era Laura Dern. She would have brought sweetness and level-headed sensibility to the character that Alba's confrontational verocity sorely lacked.
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It happens. But I'm telling you, if they'd cast Pammy you'd all be raving about her. I mean, fucking Tarantino cast that mermaid in Kill Bill and suddenly people are talking about her as if she can actually act. I swear to God I don't think Daryl Hannah has even been awake in any movie she was in for the past 20 years.
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Looks like Stuart Townsend as Lestat, the poor bastard. Is he serious with this look? I'm scared to follow the link in case I get my MIND FREAKED
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Or maybe a Bibleman movie after Willie Aames gets into better shape on Celebrity Fit Club. When's Elektra 2 coming out? I remember Jennifer Garner talking about ideas for "the next one" a while back....Ok, I guess that was kinda mean. I love you Jen! Hope you and Matt Murdock, er Ben Affleck are happy together! That's gonna be one good looking kid those 2 produce.
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1) Blade has been the only near-perfect comic book adaptation yet. 2) My favourite superhero, Wolverine, has yet to be done justice, and I doubt the forthcoming solo flick will do so. 3) I say the Fox execs will do a 'Meet the Little Focker'-style turn and make the sequel 'Fantastic 5' in a vain attempt to emulate the more-fantastic-than-fantastic-four Incredibles, shattering fanboys' hopes around the world of any dignity being left in the franchise. 6) A Daredevil sequel would result in Ben Affleck getting more work! Danger Will Robinson, Danger!
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Paste Pot Pete
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1) Yes, but there is also Ghost World; 2) Thankyouthankyou! Finally I share this opinion with someone else. The openening sequence of X1 and him on Cyke's bike are pretty much all there is that comes close; 3) You jest, but I doubt they'll keep Franklin out of the 3rd movie if there is one; 6) (what happened to 4 and 5) Affleck really wasn't all that bad in DareDevil, but he may have appeared much worse had Farrel not played Bullseye.
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IMPOSSIBLE MAN!!! Yeah, I said it. So bring him on for the sequel.
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...Harry wanted 'Fantastic Four' to do well even before it the first weekend's tally came in. Certain people on this TalkBack who I know for a fact were trolling in Harry's review article ought to know that. Anyway, the movie sucked. I was pleasantly surprised it didn't suck as bad as I thought it would, but it still sucked. But I think I'm sick of caring, quite frankly. Studio executives, and even Avi Arad (who's supposed to be *our* voice, not the Mouth of Sauron) look upon us with contempt. So whatever. If there's ever another good comic book movie adaptation I'll be pleasantly surprised.
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...not everybody who thinks it sucked expected a literal translation, or even a very close one. Keep in mind that I was getting mad when people were getting their knickers in a twist over Doom not saying "Bah! Richards!" (incidentally, who the fuck says "Bah!" besides for Ebenezer Scrooge?) or seeing an 8-foot tall Thing or a blonde Johnny Storm. I think the only reason you're seeing so much of that nitpicking is because sites like this have sort of encouraged it, sadly.
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Jul 19, 2005 8:03:39 PM CDT
A director who can work with actors and has an invetive visual s
by 007-11
I concur. Let's get someone on this.
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Off topic I know but I'm wondering where you take your name from. I was thinking that Sisters of Mercy song but maybe I'm way off
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Jul 19, 2005 8:14:36 PM CDT
People who defend F4 are just stupid and everyone should ignore
by spectrebeeyatch
"The public loved this movie"? Not everyone I talked to. "The CGI was amazing"? Um everyone in the theater was laughing during the space scenes, which looked like a low budget sci-fi channel movie. This movie was horrible. It is that simple, making excuses means nothing. One or two good moments sure, but every movie has good moments. At least Doom didn't say "joygasm" but he did say "Marco polo" when looking for Sue which literally made me cringe, not as much as when he screams "Sue, You're fired". Lame ass writing right there. Everything sucked the fight lasted only a minute and was pointless, metal when heated and then cooled does not freeze, it would shatter. Whatever. Doom sucked, effects sucked direction and writing reeeally sucked. So it made 100 million, The Pacifier also made over 100 million doesn't make that movie amazing now does it? F4 2 needs to be a big event movie not a laugh your ass off at how bad it is movie.
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Speechless here. In Quint's TB I called for your review and never got it. We've had our differences before, but really didn't think it would be the case here, especially considering the resolve you had that I lacked prior to the release date. Regardless, I believe contempt has always stemmed from Avi Arad, yet also believe it always extended way past him. No one person is ever to blame for something of this magnitude.
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Jul 19, 2005 8:29:17 PM CDT
007-11, "A director who can work with actors and has an invetive
by immortal_fish
For fear of appearing paranoid and since you haven't specified, are you addressing me? If so, let's review what I wrote: "Granted, with regard to quality and overall impact, Singer's movies have a leaning edge on Story's effort, but that's mostly due to the better, more experienced actors he had to work with that deserve this credit, not Singer." Translation, since it's absolutely (un)necessary, Singer virtually sleepwalked through the first X film on the weight of the material and capability of the actors he had to work with. Story accomplished the same with less experienced actors (well, most of them) and still landed a more faithful adaptation of the source material. Your point being, besides the one on top of your head? On the other hand, I apologize in advance if you were addressing someone other than myself.
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Yeah, I forgot about Ghost World! And the Wolverine bar-fight scene at the start of X-Men has yet to be bettered by the rest of the franchise. One of the best superhero intros yet! Anyways, when I talk about Blade being close to a perfect translation; I mean yeah, Spiderman, X-Men, etc were not terrible movies, but when you think about the source material; extraordinary characters and amazing plots already there for the plucking, you can't help but be disappointed when the directors/writers/etc mess up, get lazy or try to put their own 'spin' on what is already movie gold. Blade (I) hit the nail on the head; captured to the character's mixture of hatred for his creators and self-loathing at having the 'hunger', in turn showed the equal amount of fear and loathing the vamps have for Blade, included an interesting mentor character, kick-ass action scenes, and didn't fool around too much with the comic book's themes (Blade's mother, Deacon Frost). My only criticism would be how Frost is eventually offed, although the epilogue in Russia made up for it. And talking about superhero intros, who can say anyone's is cooler than Blades?
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Can't wait to see Ben walk atomic bomb into Monstro's mouth. Can't wait to see fire versus water. Must see Namor making out with Sue while Reed BOILS. Throw in Doctor Doom, like in FF #6 and you've got the perfect FF movie. Just change Doom's voice and have him unable to get the mask off. Shane's just one more asshole with an opinion. To paraphrase the little kid, Fuck off, fuck off Shane.
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Jul 19, 2005 8:37:23 PM CDT
What if it gets too large? The naming possibilites of Fantastic
by tubbs tattsyrup
But yeah, X-Men owns the F4.
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that probably ticked me off the most.
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This movie was worse than bad...it was...dead. Bland and soulless. A shining beacon of mediocrity. Films like this are where imaginations go to die. My only discernable recompense from the experience was that I did not, in any fashion, contribute to this "film's" box office tally.
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I don't like movie Logan. jackman simply lacks the grit needed to play the character (although I still like him as an actor). I hate it when Wolverine is portrayed as more wiseass than badass. He is also a mediocre fighter (i.e. Deathstryke handing him his ass for most of that fight) and I don't appreciate his lack of samurai skills. Nightcrawler, on the other hand, I have no problem with. Cumming did a great job. My thoughts on Hulk? I know it's general concensus among some fans that it deals with issues of child abuse and family strife but it DEALS with neither of these things. Sure it features a father who is sort of weird and arbitrarily insane but the issue is not handled any more delicately or realistically than a teen comedy. Even if it did Nick Nolte would have annihilated it with his hilariously over the top performance. Lee also tries to constantly remind yout hat its a comic film with his retarded little segway shots of molecules and shit. There is a difference between style and sheer randomness, Lee leans toward the latter. bruce banner also seems sedated and lacks the depth that the comic banner has. And last but not least it pussies out ont he Hulk moments by making it all take place in the desert and then coping out once you get to the city. Combine all that with an ending fight htat would make David Lych go "What the fuck was that?" So yeah Hulk sucks. With that said if there was ever a property that does not lend itself to film its The Hulk.
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So true, Wolverine is supposed to be a 100+ year-old killing machine, an ex-samurai, a world-weary and extremely knowledgable loner, with a massive back-catalogue of grief and regret, trying to contain 'the animal' within; and he came across more as a rowdy biker in the movie/s. They BARELY touched on his history. The solo project better sort this out...
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I wanted a little more from B1, but eventually didn't need it. It was a great movie with major replay value. Most of my initial problems centered around my disdain for Stephen Dorff, but I managed to rise above it all for the better good that the movie was. Especially since Dorff is an actor I don't really care for as a person. Snipes is fantastic in most anything he does. Screw Panther, I'd love to see him do Deathlok instead.
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Thank you. I had expected different. For what it's worth, I believe only Harvey Keitel could portray comic Logan accurately. Jackman is decent and would make for a phenomenal replacement in any Clint Eastwood remake, but he ain't never gonna be no Logan. Now to Hulk, which only happens to best my love for Marvel's First Family, AND as fellow artist... I think you need to take a another look. Yes, it was plodding and overly long. I noticed that you didn't mention the multiple panels -- which I felt worked, giving me an artistic perspective on the additionals centered around a single scene -- yet I understand how they didn't resonate with the garden variety movie-goer (damn the lack of commercial success for Timecode). But as for Nolte's performance, what did you want? He was the atypical maniac who reacted accordingly when prodded. He was no Todd Banner (Bruce's 4-color dad), yet a close enough facsimile. And *entertaining* to watch. Nolte eats each scene he's in. My underlying problem with Hulk was that it didn't exploit the potential for David Banner to grow into Sterns from the Peter David era. This guy was perfectly set up to be the Leader. Instead we got a guy for the protagonist to fight. I also didn't like how Talbot had no loyalty to Ross, but that's a minor nit. You can't fault Bana's performance for being wooden as was Gruffud's... since their source material is equally detatched. You claim Bana can't reach the depth of the comic character (which I agree) yet rely on the same mainstay of the commonplace "where's the 'Hulk SMASH!'" crowd by way of pointing to the desert scene. Look, this ain't Bill Bixby's Hulk. For that, shouldn't we be quite thankful? At this rate, we might get Jarella and Thanatos by the time we're grandparents!
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...just a cheap knock-off of The Absorbing Man?
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Why aren't characters making cameos in each other's movies? How hard would it be to have the Hulk in the next FF movie? (How cool would a Thing vs Hulk fight be?) Or how about at the beginning of Spidey 3, Spidey visits the FF looking to get a job on the team?
Even a one minute scene somewhere during these movies with a cameo would be cool. It would make the Marvel movies a little more unique. -
Too true, I always thought it would be great in a Spiderman movie if Peter Parker was rushing to work, only to bump into a guy on the way. Peter is knocked flying, the guy turns 'round, smoking a cigar and helps him up-its Wolverine! They size each other up, Wolverine says something like 'watch where you're goin, bub', then they part ways. classic...
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So, of course, we'll probably get Fantastic 4 vs. Frightful 4, or some other weak shit instead.
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*Hey everyone look at my little wingy thingies on my ankles that let me fly!*
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Jul 19, 2005 11:59:35 PM CDT
when I wrote a letter to Chris Columbus....
by the ghost of marcus brody
back in 98 when he was set to direct, I pretty much stated as a fan of the comic, pretty much what Shane stated above. No use complaining now over F4.01, but the ONLY way to change the outcome of the sequel is by "bitching" on sites like this. Having said that, Word Industrykiller, keep up the good fight.
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Fair play to you, but you're putting yourself in the firing range with that one! I have to agree with the second part, though, I overlooked Conan as being a comic book movie...it was awesome.
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TTP= Yep Firestar.The Theme tune is quality http://tinyurl.co.uk/qajd.Most comic films are not unrealistic enough for me.buggytodd=yep these films should be crossing over in pre credit sequences,they could go to town if they could get past the 1 team one world level they insist on.Silver Surfer and Galactus should turn up next standard.
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"If they make a good FF4-2"??? Think about how remote the chances of that are. Seriously. How often is a sequel to a dogshit movie actually great? Especially a big special f/x event-style comic book movie that the studio has no real respect for? I mean... they cared *so much* about this property that they hired a COMEDY director. A fucking TERRIBLE comedy director! And before anybody starts speculating about "what talented director" they're going to hire for the sequel... let's not forget that every single appropriate director in town PASSED on this project before they got way down the list to Tim Story. So you think they're going to want to do the sequel? I don't disagree with you that if by some miracle they made a good sequel it would find an audience thanks to the reviews and the word of mouth, but why even bother speculating on the impossible?
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The audience in my theater laughed fairly consistently at all the jokes. My theater broke out in applause at the end of the show so I know we weren't alone in enjoying ourselves. I liked it better than most of the Batman movies and even better than everybody's darling Spider-Man 2. If a sequel is made, they better bring back the entire cast AND Tim Story.
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And Mr. Fanstastic could get HIV from fucking his own ass.
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Jul 20, 2005 3:31:05 AM CDT
I think the Fox employees need to stop posting. If you liked the
by spectrebeeyatch
Seriously this movie blew. All the apologists need to really stop because you sound like idiots. "My theater broke out in applause" yeah probably because they were so happy the movie ended. Anyone who says this movie was action packed obviously didn't see the movie and was paid to say it. Why? Oh I don't know because the action was in the last ten minutes, and it sucked hard. Spider-man, Hulk, BB they are all better than this movie, hell the Rocketeer was better than this. Someone brought up the lack of score which I noticed, also the budget was so piss poor they couldn't afford to show the lift off sequence of the ship which was in the script. Also if you read the screenplay there was a way this movie could have been decently made. But no Tim Story's clear hacktastic skills ruined whatever chances this movie had. He's great at comedy, not at action. Fox can't be trusted with big movies I, robot sucked and Aliens vs. Predator sucked even more, and now F4 and guess what all of them made over 100 million. Well good bye to good movies because if general audiences allow studio's to just make shitty movies and then get paid for it, they are never going to stop. Especially with F4 I am expecting the second film to be worst than the the first.
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I never realized that you called for my review in Quint's article. I don't really understand why, but anyway, I probably would have posted something like a review had I not seen it after the article fell off the front page.
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I always thought Danny DeVito in Taxi was pretty much Logan without the claws. Bad-tempered, obnoxious, randy. Shit he's even short and hairy. In fact he could probably play him now, grey hair and everything. Stick a couple of sideburns on him, give him a cigar and let him fuck up some smelly bikers. Chances of this happening - nil. Chances of it being good even if someone lost their mind long enough to make it - probably nil. Still a man can dream. Judd Hirsch for Cyclops! Marilu Henner for Jean Grey! Tony Danza for Colossus! That guy who played Kenickie for Angel! Andy Kaufman for Nightcrawler! And Christopher Lloyd for Professor X! You know it makes sense
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The FF2 trailer should be like this..Voice Over Man: "This Summer" (tribal drum beat, tribal drum beat) "Four people have been transformed" (tribal drum beat, tribal drum beat, image of the FF looking up into the brightly lit sky, a huge shadow falls over them)"..into the Fantastic" John Willimas esque score resounds in the background to a swirling crescendo(The FF display their powers in their unique ways - Reed stretches upwards to the impending monolith that is casting the enormous shadow, Johnny flames on and shoots skyward, the Thing punches one fist into the palm of his hand and Sue..strips..again..) We cut up to a shot of GALACTUS's face as the orchetral music comes to its peak!! He looks down at Sue..who is stripping..again...His eyebrows raise, the music hangs in the air resting on one tense, impending note..then with infinite wisdom and infinite power, in the most booming of voices that shakes the very Earth beneath the FF that causes lamposts to fall to the ground, the concrete road to crack in two and a mighty wind to descend upon the city below, Galactus speaks: "SWEEEETTT!!" "HOLY CRAP! JESSICA ALBA IS HOT!!! GIGGIDY GIGGIDY OH!! ALRIGHT!!!" Galactus thrusts his crotch in Mr Fantastic's face as he acts out a humping motion ..Reed looks pissed as Sue looks on with admiration at the size of Galactus's girth and indeed length..(Tribal music starts again) Voice Over Man: "Now, one man" (close up shot of Reed) "must battle his greatest fear... (Reed grabs his trousers and pulls the top of his pants away from his body..he looks down at his crotch despondently) "Penis envy..." Reed: "..Sue, it doesn't stetch, why won't it stretch?!!" Trailer fades out to black. SUMMER 2008
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The thing I agree most with is that Jack Kirby was a genius. If my name were "Tim Story," and I'd been handed $100 million to make a movie based on the Fantastic Four, the first thing I'd have done is had the production designers sit down with a set of Marvel Masterworks to absorb as much of Kirby's design work from those 100 or so issues as humanly possible. All the wacky machinery, light effects, costume designs - those would be the the primer for the look of any FF film I had a hand in. If love of the characters had been the motivation of anyone involved in the film - instead of money/career advancement - it might well have happened that way. Maybe they'll catch a clue for part 2, but seeing as how the box office appears to petering out pretty quickly, I don't see Fox becoming any less hands-on the second time around.
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Jul 20, 2005 8:39:33 AM CDT
A better quality sequel won't happen. Fox will remake the sa
by mr. profit
This was a kids film. all the "check your brain at the door" "Popcorn" excuses are pretty lame. It was a film that could have easily been a Power Rangers movie if you changed the costumes. And Fox wont decide to get real writers and directors. Why? Why spend money when the crap they released made money. Why? When they can easily again fill the TV and Internet with Hype to ensure another big weekend? Hoping this crap will change is useless. And why do fans of quality films even sit here and argue about this film? I made a post way early on about changing directors, but damn, I see this has turned into another argument. Let the fans who enjoyed this movie, sit here and jerk off about it. The film was so weak that I'm surprised people are even arguing about it. And it's sad that many people are loving it because Harry hated it. And half the fans here are probably from the Superhero Hype message boards. It can only explain the sudden increase of FF support on this site, when back then when HKnowles was trashing it, no one said a mutherfucking thing to defend it.
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Jul 20, 2005 8:53:28 AM CDT
And Tim Story is a horrible director who couldn't manage to
by mr. profit
Was that included in the 100 mil or added on to it? Fucking Guillermo Del Toro only spent 60 million on Hellboy and look at the difference visually. Where do directors like Story and Singer (who spent 135 mil on X2) spend the money?
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in complaining about how the FF movie, or Xmen movie etc didn't match up with its source. No film adaptation from another media ( plays, comics, the bible, whatever) will ever jibe with its source. Has there ever been a movie that, perfectly, hits all the right points? It just doesn't happen. Even remakes of films suffer the same fate. Its like translating languages - something must, and always will be, lost in translation. You cannot avoid it. There comes a time when you have to cut cards with the devil. All we, we who care, can do is pray to Crom that whoever is in charge shows some respect for the source. When that doesn't happen, we get treated to craptastic spectacles like Catwoman or Omega Man ( which I basically liked, but man oh man did it shit all over Matheson's novel..& that was the movie I wanted to see, not Captain NRA shagging Roz cash. Oy)
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What a joke. How bout' Serious Black's "eruption of applause" quote. Hey Fox, if you're gonna post here, be realistic. Say something like, "the audience really seemed to like it", but applause eruption. That is just ludicrus. No audience is applauding after this film.
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Jul 20, 2005 9:48:57 AM CDT
Just for the record, Harry`s favorite WOTW isn`t holding much be
by dinosauron
especially for a movie with such a pedigree and glowing reviews from critics on Spielberg`s payroll.
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Defined on those terms, I'll agree that 'Fantastic Four' respected its source material. But saying that no adaptation is going to jibe with its original inspiration is one thing; how does that account for all the plot contrivances and plot holes in the film? You may not care, but the bottom line is that it's incredibly lazy screenwriting. I've suggested before and I'll say it again -- perhaps, just as knowing about FF beforehand has turned some people against the adaptation, a history with it might influence people to give it more of a pass than they would otherwise. You can say the word "fun" over and over until the cows come home, but at the end of the day, how many of you would watch 'The Pacifier' because it was "fun?" How many of you would actually thrill to a scene of a blind chick feeling up a rock guy if it wasn't ripped from the comics? The movie had problems beyond straying too far from the source material, something I don't even care that much about in the first place (if I had my druthers, I'd rather Harry didn't take up the role of Green Goblin in 'Spider-Man 3,' for example). If you want to like it for whatever reason, fine, I guess. But don't go trying to characterize people who didn't like it with one big, broad brushstroke. It'll be a lot easier to "figure out" why people didn't like the movie once you figure out that the movie blew chunks.
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(Excuse me, a little Texan just slipped out. Get back in there.) I am not a plant, we did love the movie, and, yes, the theater did break out into applause (not everyone, but half of a pretty full auditorium counts, I think.) First of all, this is AICN and it's cool here to jump on the hate bandwagon. I'm sure a lot of the naysayers here probably have not even seen the movie. Second, people here often just parrot whatever the critics are saying. Yes, the critics slagged the shit out of this movie, and many of their criticisms are valid just as many of the critiques here on Talkback are valid. It's not a great movie by any stretch (heh, get it). So, thirdly, go ahead and bash away, I don't care. It doesn't make me enjoy the movie any less. I just want it on record that there are some out there that like the movie as it is and, yeah, I
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Anyone who takes the time to read my nonsense knows few of my posts are complete without some sort of rebuke of the precious and sacred Spider-Man 2 (which I did enjoy but not as much as Fantastic Four). FF is not boring like SM2. FF is not trying to be more than what it is. FF knows it's a silly superhero picture and (this is what got a lot of critics, I think) doesn't aspire to be anything more. SM2 reaches for the moon and mostly embarrasses itself: the romance doesn't work, Dunst is worse than Alba, and why, Raimi, why must you try to insert ridiculous "tender moments" into these movies like the train passengers helping SM into the train? And did someone mention plot holes and lazy screenwriting? What could be lazier than a superhero who conveniently loses his powers (because he's "stressed!" Wah!). And, golly, what are the chances he'll get his powers back just in time to defeat Doc Ock? Was anybody on the edge of their seat for that moment? And Peter and Aunt May just HAPPEN to be in the same bank that Doc Ock robs? It's New York City, there's hundreds of banks! The inhibitor chip! The fusion-ball-magnet-thing! For every good thing in the movie (like JK Simmonds or Franco) there is something stupid to counterbalance it. I will just finish with this: SM2, like Hulk, is not fun. It
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Wow. I said you have a right to like the movie. No need to get personal just because you know I like 'Spider-Man 2.' And don't go there. If you really want me to list every stupid thing about 'Fantastic Four,' "for what it is," I fuckin' will.
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...how did 'Spider-Man 2' try to be anything more than what it is? Because Peter Parker sniffled occassionally instead of kicking ass with the dry cool wit of an action hero? Go rent 'Chronicles of Riddick' and fuck off. The plot of every single movie doesn't have to be interchangeable. If you get your rocks off to meaningless fluff, good for you, it doesn't mean that you have to get pissed every time a movie doesn't cater to your whims.
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...I realize now that I did almost exactly what you probably wanted me to do, which is to make the gist of my first post which you tangentially responded to about 'Spider-Man 2.' Wish I could delete my last two posts. Anyway, 'FF' still sucks, but if you like your "fun" movies (as if to imply people who hate 'FF' hate fun) so much, you can fucking have it.
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And I totally understand you hating FF. There's a lot to criticize and a lot of room for improvement. It just worked for me for some reason. I like most superhero stuff, though, with a few exceptions. And I've got a good feeling the next Spider-Man will the best best yet. So there.
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What is this, the 'like your enemies, it'll confuse them' approach? The only reason I jumped on you was because I figured, what with quoting me and then ripping 'Spider-Man 2' a new asshole, you were taking potshots at me. Anyway I'm getting pretty sick and tired of getting so worked up over these movies. I know that this was geared more towards children than anyone else, and it works on that level. All four main characters are ones kids would probably look up to and the very fundamental lesson of working together as a team will probably work with them, too. I salute the filmmakers for that. But they can make a "light-hearted" movie and still make it good. Some of the plot holes/devices were overlookable (or at least, I overlooked them), but some of them seriously handicapped the movie. For example: Doom's sudden transition from reluctant freak to absolute psycho could have been explained better. The thing that bugs me the most is, well, the Thing. More specifically, how at the end of the film he's "fine" looking like a giant golem. Why? The movie does nothing but take a giant dump on him from frame one: his supposedly great wife dumps him, everywhere he goes, people look at him and point, he breaks chairs and glasses, he can't ride elevators or walk into bars without making dust rain down from the ceiling and the record skip, he gets a mouthful of metal every time he doesn't eat his fruit cocktail delicately enough, the entire mess on the bridge is caused because some guy is afraid of him and at one point a pigeon literally craps on him. Then Reed builds this machine that somehow harnesses the cosmic rays (if they could be produced on earth why'd they have to monitor them up in space?) that turned them all into the Fantastic Four and "reverses" the effects. Okay, fine. Whatever. But the machine is just lying around the Baxter Building and we're to assume that Ben doesn't want to be normal anymore? Why? It's not like the FF fight crime and, quite frankly, it's not like they'd need him to take care of business with a couple of jewel thiefs anyway. Is it in case Blastar shows up? Well, the real answer is yes, but from the character's point-of-view he'd have no reason to think that. So I guess we're just supposed to accept that Ben Grimm has embraced his new persona as the Thing (even though he says to Johnny "no jokes about the way I look, okay?"), but we wouldn't really have to if that whole cosmic chamber thing hadn't been invented in the first place. I know it's from the comics, but the world is a lot more dangerous in the comics than it is (so far) in the movie universe they've established. Besides for that, I'd probably have enjoyed FF for what it was myself if they had gotten rid of some of the bad jokes and Johnny running away to do some "new school" tricks at the X-Games.
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Jul 20, 2005 12:18:04 PM CDT
Again....There is no fucking reason why any of these superhero m
by mr. profit
Spiderman 1 and 2 were kid flicks. And Spiderman 2 is terribly overrated. A 2 hour film about Spidey and his girl problems. Xmen 1 and 2 were also overrated. And I signed up for Xmen when I paid for my ticket, not Singer's S&M fetish fantasy. Screw the costumes, that's been talked about to death, I'm talking about the things that you notice once you watch the film again. I've come to the realization that none of these films will ever be any good. Marvel seems intent on hiring hack directors who blow sunshine up Avi's ass. "I am a huge fan of this" "I love that" "OMG that was my fave growing up" and then they ignore the source material and come up with something entirely different. It's a shame because Marvel has a lot of properties that they can turn into films. But they are all being mismanaged away by Arad. The only movie that I liked and I feel was the best adaptation PERIOD for me was Batman Begins. It was rooted in reality. And why do films lack a fucking decent score nowadays? The Xmen films should have used a variation of the cartoon theme. But I don't care anymore.
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it was fun, I didn't have to put up with Kirsten Dunst and only giggled a little bit when the twelve year old Jessica Alba was introduced as a geneticist. Lighten up, fanboys, and have some fun.
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People who like it trying to "figure out" why other people didn't and coming to the conclusion that "fanboys don't like having fun." Yup. You got it. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
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Seriously. What does that have to do with comic books anyway? Why do they have to be dark and brooding, when the source material, save for modern revisions, rarely is?
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I've said this before, and I'll probably keep saying it for no apparent reason other than to waste breath. I'm one of those who liked Fantastic Four alot. The script was ass, and I found myself cringing time and again at the dialog. But despite myself I had fun. The real question is would I have had more fun if there was some more character depth and drama? In the words of Team America, fuck yeah. This is a popcorn movie? Well, Spider-Man 2's emotional core didn't prevent it from working as a popcorn movie. I look at the best 'popcorn movies' out there, I look at Rocky, Star Wars, ET, Superman 1 & 2 (I'm defining a popcorn movie as the kind of cinema that leaves you feeling good afterwards, it doesn't challenge your worldview, it reinforces it, and is the movie equivalent of an antidepressant.) and the fact that they spent a long time pulling your heart strings and making you care for the people involved, doesn't make them any less entertaining. As I said before, the danger is more palpable, and the triumphs at the end far more sweet. There are about a hundred things I would have done different in a Fantastic Four movie, but the amount is about the same for most other movies.
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and surprisingly people did clap at the end. I didn't! But I left with a smile on my face. I liked it better than the 'best' Star Wars prequel. I went to the matinee so it was mainly filled with young kids who obviously enjoyed it. This will be their intro to FF. I remember my intro was Thing underroos! Sure the plot was not tight and I had to suspend my disbelief a few times more than I would have liked, but I enjoyed myself. Probably due to lowered expectations, but I did like it. It will not win any 'comic book' movie awards, but hey how many comic book movies TRULY live up to expectations. The key to FF is the family dynamic and I think they 'almost' got it right. It was not an action movie, so blame Fox for promoting it as an action film and fooling people. Reed Richards and gang are not the Xmen they are a family of 'adventurers'. The FF ain't Wolverine and the Xmen kickin' ass, they are scientists not a para military unit.
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Someone mentioned that they are signed to another studio. If so who? Looks like we might not see FF & Galactus. :(
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Someone was wrong. Silver Surfer belongs to Fox. Although you're probably not likely to see FF and Galactus together for a long time anyway, because Arad says that the Silver Surfer movie is going to take place primarily on Earth, which I assume means he'll save the Earth from Galactus. There's still the potential for a crossover somewhere down the line though. I'm sort of interested in how they handle Silver Surfer. That has the potential to be a really cool movie (for me, anyway).
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cuz you're too busy responding to my dumbass on a silly talkback. What I meant was that the Fantastic Four was never exactly, in my opinion, psychologically complex and about anything more than stretch dude, invisible girl, clobber guy and flamer slamming evil.
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Ummm...and who exactly are you responding to and, after you answer that one, tell me how exactly that works again?
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what a good way to to introduce a franchise...bring him in and galactus and there will be big bucks made :D
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Well, maybe the "so there" was unnecessary. I really do like that you generally explain your reasons for liking or not liking something rather than just saying "This moovie sux teh big wun." And there is no point in getting worked up over anything said in a Talkback. We're all here just pissing away time while we're supposed to be doing whatever it is we're supposed to be doing. Bottom line, even if you hated the movie, I don't think it's so screwed up that a sequel couldn't be really good.
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they could have been applauding because the damn thing had finally ended and they could go home and play halo 2 or something.
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I read that Wolfman/Pollard story arc involving Von Doom in the late 70's when I was 12. I remember it to this day. It's just criminal that those characters weren't the ones that showed up in the movie. I can still visualize the panels of the showdown between Reed and Victor, mano a mano. A crime I say.
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Why is it a popular myth that appealing to mainstream audiences and comic book fans is mutually exclusive?
I suspect the answer to that question is that it is easy and a lazy solution to resort to.
As I have said before, straying from the source material for a legitimate good reason is one thing. Peter Parker didn -
It wasn't Batman or Spiderman but it sure as hell wasn't the flaming ball of suck that Daredevil or the Hulk were either. Comparing it to those films is like losing your virginity to a double jointed hooker and then comparing every girl you date afterward to that. Then again, what do most of the posters on this board know about dating let alone losing their virginity.
Can't wait for FF2
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So say we all.
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Wow. Just....just wow.
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You just know they want to get the family crap going.
"Ooooh, Reed, bad Vic has kidnapped little Franklin, ooooohhhh, ooooohhhh." -
Jul 20, 2005 6:15:51 PM CDT
FF/X-man crossover?!? WRONG!!! If there is going to be a Marvel
by reyvn_darknight
FF/Spider-man! The classic cover with Spider-man suspend in the air by one of Richards machines demands that a movie crossover must be with Spider-man.
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any poster here didn't enjoy the Star Wars prequels.
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It'll be a sure fire winner. Have it so when she goes invisible, her clothes fall to the ground and when she rematerializes she is buck naked... :P
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Jul 21, 2005 1:23:00 AM CDT
JulesLogan... You are out of your Dumbest mind if you think thi
by plazola_mex
'Cause it
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Jul 21, 2005 4:03:03 AM CDT
FF lovers or Fox employees as I like to call them really need to
by spectrebeeyatch
Claiming that FF is just fun and blah blah. Well SP2 was a lot of fun at least I thought so. "Spider-man 2 was boring" that movie had three major fights in it one being amazing. This movie had one, a really bad one in fact that lasted maybe three minutes. The rest of the movie was bad jokes and bad CGI. WOW what a great time! Also I don't understand why people keep comparing this to WOTW it doesn't really make sense. WOTW cost around 150 million said in Variety like months ago. I read today that FF cost 130 plus all that marketing. Even with that ending WOTW is about to break 200 million and FF will die at around 145 so um what? Why compare? Compare it to BLade Trinity which made like 25 million or something. Anyway yeah FF pissed me off because I actually like all the actors in it and I was a fan of the comic. But Fox and Tim Story just didn't give a shit and made a movie the sci-fi channel could have made for a lot less.
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First - I never said that I didn't care - I said bitching about it won't do a damn bit of good. I said, in fact "WE WHO CARE". I said its a situation THAT CAN NOT BE AVOIDED. If you're going to get in my face, get your facts straight. The word "fun" appears no where in my post. And I haven't "charaterized" anybody as anything. What in hell are you on about? You want to discuss differences, fine. You want to make them up on your own, then piss off. Sorry to be so blunt, but I've had it with posters like you who invent things in other peoples posts, then try to give yourself an oppurtunity to sound clever. And I'm in mourning.
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In case you missed that salient little bit of information...
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I'm sorry that you got the wrong impression about my post, and I have to admit I can see how you did, but only the very first part of it was pertaining to you. The rest of it became sort of a general rant.
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Okay. Since you didn't separate out your rants it looked like one long & inaccurate rake job. Sorry I opened fire; I'm used to getting that kind of shit from jerks like anchorite, & I was in a really black mood yesterday after losing Mr. Doohan. But you did say that I didn't care, when I very specifically stated the opposite. That just sort of got the ball rolling. No blood, no foul. We cool?
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Okay. Since you didn't separate out your rants it looked like one long & inaccurate rake job. Sorry I opened fire; I'm used to getting that kind of shit from jerks like anchorite, & I was in a really black mood yesterday after losing Mr. Doohan. But you did say that I didn't care, when I very specifically stated the opposite. That just sort of got the ball rolling. No blood, no foul. We cool?
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frakking return key...
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...because my nephew has been gushing about it to his dad since we saw it last week and my brother offered to pay for me and my wife to go with them. She wanted to see it, so we went. And, on a second viewing, I feel even more certain that this movie was made primarily for kids. In fact, I think they should have taken out the close-ups of holes blasted through people by Doom and cut the very few swears and just gone PG with it. The boy was thoroughly entertained again. I, quite honestly, got a little bored during the whole "Big Brother featuring the Fantastic Four" sequence where they're all trying to live together in the Baxter Building, but I think that's because I saw it so recently (the first time through, I found those moments entertaining). Doom didn't bother me near as much this time through. In fact, when my brother (not a huge comic fan) asked me afterward how Doom's origin went in the comics and I started explaining it, my wife (also not a comic fan) pointed out how much more sense the movie origin made to her than magic and monks. She did suggest that it would've made more sense to have Doom on the station but not get powers like the rest, so that he could have another reason to be jealous of Reed and then he could prove how smart he was by building a super suit that gave him powers (she suggested Syndrome from the Incredibles as a possible example of how this could have worked, which I found ironic given all the comparisons made between these two films on this board, and which has me now convinced that Syndrome was, in fact, based on Doom as much as the Incredibles were based on the FF). But she's an engineer, so technology is much easier for her to deal with than magic. I think I might've liked that better for the movie, too, though. In fact, the changes the movie made to the entire origin story were, for the most part, better for a non-comic-fan audience. As I recounting the FF comic origin after the movie, both my brother and wife questioned things like: "So what were Sue and Johnny doing on the ship?" and "If Ben was a test pilot and not an astronaut, how would he know how to fly an orbital craft?" The post-movie discussion reinforced for me something I've long known but sort of glossed over when discussing this movie or my fond memories of the comics: The very premise of the FF is pretty silly, even by comic book standards. They're a silly bunch of two-dimensional personalities with silly powers who fought primarily campy villains (Doom excluded, at least as he developed into the uber-Villain he is thought of as today, and I don't think he was played very campy in the movie). That's pretty much how he movie portrayed them. It wasn't sophisticated or exceptionally dark (although the tragedy of Ben's character did come through) and it wasn't trying to be. There were some pretty gaping plot holes (like how did Ben get that machine working the second time without Doom? - thank my wife for that and other technical nitpicks I didn't make the first time). But some of those, I think, are due to material that was obviously cut (like on the bridge near the beginning). I still think the movie nailed the looks and powers of all the primary characters (even Doom looked like Doom should by the end) and I think Chiklis absolutely captured the character of The Thing (my nephew's new favorite hero, having supplanted Hulk). I also still say Alba did a fine job with the material she was given. Reed, while not a very interesting character (in either the books or the movie) was still played pretty flat and Johnny, who I liked on my first viewing, started to really annoy me the second time. It felt like he was just too EXTREME. When people say the movie was fine for what it was, I'll take issue now. It was close to perfect for a Marvel comics movie aimed at kids. They just needed to tone down some of the language and scale back ever-so-slightly on depicting the aftermath of Doom's outbursts. My nephew loved the movie again and is already asking when he can have the DVD. Oh... and the theater was pretty packed for a Wednesday night. Not sure what that says about projected declines for the box office, but it surprised me.
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sounded like anyone in a talkback, plus its so annoying reading about a DREAM movie, you people dont realize that everything you want cost money and nothing is simple. Fool.
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Not every suggestion for improving this film costs money. The main complaints are the lack of characterizations,plot holes, and 3rd grade humor passing as witty banter. Galactus, Silver Surfer, etc would cost a lot more money, true. But writing the script with the actual characters it pretends to be about costs no more than useing the in-name-only copies that they gave us.
If they had fixed the plot holes and replaced Reed, Sue and Doom with good actors, you'd spend no more money and have a better movie. Okay, maybe better actors would have upped the cost a bit, but they could have taken some of the cash from the Burger King promos and added to the actors paychecks. -
Avoid it like the plague. First it was a series of foaming-at-the -mouth rantings about "homos". The racist blasts are now starting. Anyone paying attention out there with the power to do so, please yank the plug on that talkback - now would be a good time.
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Jul 21, 2005 8:06:11 PM CDT
If you think the FF is crap, behold my Silver Surfer prediction.
by anla'shok
I weep for the surfer...
Ah yes, I can picture it now, the "Silver Surfer" rides in his sleek, suped up "silver" space cruiser dawned in something oddly reminiscent of 'biker garb'. Helping Galactus, a "Hot chick" entity who uses her devices to absorb the "resources" from planets leaving them destitute and miserable. She consumes some of this and transfers the rest to her ever growing empire.
Next stop, earth. While inspecting the planet the surfer encounters a precocious child whose father happens to be a 'renown physicist'. He developes an immediate bond with her and eventually the father, fish out of water hijinks ensue. later on he aids in bringing them closer together.
But onward to the 3rd act. The Surfer attempts to tell Galactus that the planet should be spared, but Galactus, jealous, yes...jealous, of the Surfers obvious affinity for these creatures will have none of it.
She calls upon some of her empires minions, a battle ensues, the surfer is on the ropes when, you guessed it. The Father comes in to offer the Surfer some assistance. Tech talk is spoken, gadgets are given, and the Surfer is back in the fray.
Galactus and her empire are driven away, the Surfer is free! We end of course with the Surfer offering the Daughter and Father a ride in his "wicked cool ship" and we end with them soaring past the milkyway.
The film will be hailed for it's "realistic" portrayal of a comic book character and will be number one on it's opening day weekend. Subsequently the comic will be adjusted to comply with this "superior vision" brought to you by hollywood.
I am Johnny Smith and I have forseen these events after touching avi arad at a comic book convention.
addendum: The Silver Surfer will be portrayed by triple H in a shiny rubber suit. -
...Harry is full of shit. In his own words from this article-"Hey folks, Harry here... Shocking to say - I was quite pleased with FANTASTIC FOUR's opening weekend. Why? Well frankly - I wanted the film to do really well on it's opening to prove that the FF was a worthy story worth pursuing."
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Now let's take a look, again, in Harry's own words, as to why he wanted to take his nephew THE FOLLOWING week-"I will be taking him to see the film next week. He will dig it, but I don't want to contribute to opening weekend."
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In the words of Penn & Teller-"BULLSHIT!" -
He said he didn't want to take nephew in his review of FF which is still posted. Look it up for yourself...if he hasn't removed it yet...
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I hate Avi Arad and I was expecting shit but it turned out fine. The characters sold me on it because the FF are so great from Johnny to Ben. And also liked even the ones haters hated like Doom and Sue. Julian McMahon Rules!
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Enough with the lies. BTW, are you picking me up for the company picnic or is it my turn to drive?
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Jul 22, 2005 11:21:19 AM CDT
Ribbons, one can reasonably argue the bevy of plot conveniences
by immortal_fish
The spider bites Pete and then scurries away, never to bite again. No one on the train had a camera phone when Pete went unmasked. Otto, a genius, never calculated the potential for magnetic pull nor did it happen in any test previously conducted, presumably from the same location. There is no reason given as to why Osborne crafts a goblin mask, leaving it to JJJ to come up with an obvious name for him. No one in the government puts the pieces together when the suit and glider went missing just before a super villain terrorizes NYC. That Mary Jane, she sure gets around, having 3 boyfriends and 1 fiance in the span of only two movies. The feel good Americana dialog of the NYC residents. And then there
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I saw the movie today and I have to say it wasn
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