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AICN EXCLUSIVE! X3 Script Review! Plus An Open Letter To Tom Rothman And Fox Stockholders!!

Published at: June 15, 2007, 2:35 a.m. CST by staff

Hi, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab...

Okay, I know, I know. I’m late with this. But you can thank Earthlink for that. Nine days without service of any kind. Amazing. I was starting to think that Avi Arad and Fox had paid Earthlink to crash my service.

Now, before we begin, let’s clarify a few things. Harry and I have not read the X-MEN 3 script, any version of it. We’ve got a new spy who has, though, and I’ve been able to verify that the version of the script he read was the “six-day-draft” that Simon Kinberg and Zak Penn wrote under the supervision of Matthew Vaughn. I like both Kinberg and Penn as writers, and I know that both of them are genuinely going to try to do right by the characters. However, this isn’t a case of two writers doing whatever they want. If it were, I don’t think there’d be anything to worry about.

You want to know who the main villain of X3 is going to be? Tom Rothman.

One of the reasons I started reading AICN, before I ever contributed anything to it, was because it demystified the development process. So often, blame (or credit) is assigned by fans to people for no particular reason. It’s easy to point a finger at a director or at a writer or even at a company like Marvel and assume that they were responsible for something, but having gone through the development process several times now for different studios (including Fox), I can tell you that more often than not, the truly terrible decisions can come from people whose names you never see onscreen.

When I call Rothman a villain, I’m well aware of how loaded that word is. I can’t think of anything more shocking this year, though, than the speech he gave at this year’s Saturn Awards. Here’s a show specifically designed to celebrate genre, a room filled with SF, fantasy, and horror filmmakers, and Tom Rothman gets up and not only lambasts everyone who writes about those genres, but also has the nerve to call himself a geek.

You, sir, are no geek. A geek would not have stripmined the ALIEN and PREDATOR franchises the way you did. A geek would not consistently value release dates and fiscal quarters over getting material right. Listening to him talk about what a friend he is to genre filmmakers was akin to being at a Shoah Foundation dinner where the guest of honor was Joseph Goebbels. This is the guy who chased Roland Emmerich and Dean Devlin off an ID4 sequel after they made $600 million for the studio because he wanted to pay them half of what they made on the first film. This is the man who browbeat Stephen Norrington until he quit the business altogether. This is the guy who almost convinced Alex Proyas to give up filmmaking. How many genre filmmakers... great genre filmmakers... do you see returning to Fox over and over to make their films? And why, exactly, do you think that is?

By the way, Rothman... telling a ballroom full of people that you’re a geek because you fuck the star of SUSPIRIA and PHANTOM OF THE PARADISE every night? Classy. Very, very classy. But still... not the point.

If you’re a Fox stockholder, now is the time to be concerned. X-MEN is the only proven major franchise that Fox currently has up and running. Who knows if FANTASTIC FOUR is going to work or not? Maybe it’ll be great. Maybe it won’t. ALIEN VS PREDATOR marked the end of two franchises at the same time. STAR WARS was never yours in the first place. Studios depend on these types of films. There’s a reason they’re called tentpoles. This is what you build the entire rest of your release year around. If you manage one of these properties the right way, it’s the gift that keeps on giving. Look at the way Sony has handled SPIDER-MAN so far. As soon as they release one, they start developing the next one, giving them plenty of time to get the script just right. They don’t start shooting until this winter, but they’re already doing FX and costume tests, and they’re deep into the writing process based on an outline that Sam Raimi and his brother have been tweaking since last year.

You know when Rothman finally gave the go-ahead to start putting together the treatment for X-MEN 3? This February. I’m a chronic procrastinator, and even I think that’s piss-poor time management, man.

Here’s the thing about X-MEN. It may be one of the most flexible and durable film franchises I’ve ever seen. By the very nature of who the X-Men are, you can rotate cast in and out of the series without having to scrap continuity. This is already off to a better financial and creative start than the Bond franchise was, and you see the legs on that one. Why, then, would you allow a personal grudge to lead you to make decisions that will not only kill the golden goose, but also rape it and eat it?

And make no mistake... the rush to make that Memorial Day 2006 release date is about beating Bryan Singer to the screen. The acrimony involved in the Singer/Fox break-up is rich enough to write an entire book about, especially if it leads to the destruction of the franchise. This could turn into one of the all-time great displays of executive hubris in Hollywood. You want to know why you lost Singer to Warner Bros. and SUPERMAN in the first place? Because you took over a year to negotiate his deal to direct X-MEN 3. That should have been one of the biggest no-brainer decisions you could have ever made, but maybe you have to have a brain to make a no-brainer decision. You strung him along and strung him along and strung him along, and then when you had finally proven to him that you weren’t going to make things easy... you were too late. Alan Horn took full advantage of Bryan’s almost-fetishistic love of Donner’s SUPERMAN and your hesitancy, and he stole him from you. I don’t know what’s funnier... throwing Bryan off the lot using security guards, or the fact that you had to let him back on the lot immediately thereafter so he could shoot HOUSE for the studio.

What’s really amazing is how X-MEN was something Rothman hated from the start, no matter what he says now in public. I’ve spoken to at least ten people close to the production who have provided me with laundry lists of the ways that Rothman tried to fuck up the first film. Remember when they cut the budget and moved up the release date on the first X-MEN? You know why? Rothman was cutting his losses. He really, truly anticipated that the film would come out and vanish without a trace, and he would finally be rid of what he saw as a corporate albatross. Instead, the film clicked, and on the second film, Bryan Singer and his writers and the producers were all able to muster enough muscle to get Fox to give them the room they needed to make something even better.

That must have stuck in Rothman’s craw something fierce, and that’s what led to that massive slow-down after X-MEN 2. They should have made Bryan’s deal the following week, and they should have also locked in Dougherty and Harris and Tom DeSanto and Lauren Shuler-Donner and Ralph Winter and the entire production team and the cast and everyone else that was part of the creative alchemy that made the first two films work. I remember one year at BNAT when Tom DeSanto talked about the way they had been planting the seeds of the Dark Phoenix storyline and several others since the very first scenes of the first X-MEN. Who knows? Maybe someday Marvel will let DeSanto and Singer do a graphic novel or a limited-run series where they do the story they had in mind for X3 and X4 on the comics page so we can at least see where the films were originally headed. As it is, Rothman’s firmly back in charge of the franchise now, and that distaste for the material seems to be seeping back in.

Which is not to say that all the news is bad.

When I was first contacted by The Big Hurt, our new spy, I almost dismissed the review he sent us. Too much detail is almost always the giveaway for someone trying to troll you. But I was able to verify this with multiple sources all the way up the chain of command at Fox and Marvel, and I can tell you... even though some of the details of the script are still being hammered out, the spine of what you’re going to see onscreen next summer is right here. Harry seems to have implied in some of what he’s written that he feels this is an unmitigated disaster. I’m not so sure yet. I do know that there are some valid complaints here, particularly regarding the way the main menace of the film is almost a carbon-copy of the menace from the last film. Also, one of Rothman’s chuckle-headed notions that he kept trying to shoehorn into the first film, the idea of Storm and Wolverine having a steamy sexual relationship, has resurfaced now. Gee, I wonder why. But there’s stuff here that I like, and it sounds like there are some amazing sequences in store. Keep in mind also that what our spy read was rough, so even if the substance of a scene was right in the draft he read, the way it’s actually handled may be very different in the final version. Dialogue, the description of certain effects, the way an action scene is fleshed out... it’s still early days yet. And even with all those caveats, this is mostly a positive review.

I’ve really wrestled with how much to reveal of the spoilers, too. In the end, I hope we’ve erred on the side of caution, but I want to give you a sense of exactly why Avi Arad calls this “the most controversial film of the series.”

Next summer, Fox is cleaning house, and there are going to be a lot of bodies on the bonfire. Check this out:

If it’s an X3 bonanza you wanted, let’s get it going all the way, ay…

(Warning: Spoilers! And also a side note: I’ve only read the first two acts as the third act was locked down tighter than a Sharon Stone Basic Instinct vice grip on Michael Douglas’ groin.)

“A large silver BLADE slices through the black screen. Wolverine’s claw?

No. It is a STRAIGHT RAZOR, gleaming on a white counter in—

INT. UPSCALE BATHROOM – DAY

More MACRO SHOTS of: a rope, rubbing alcohol, steel brush, other strange instruments. Suddenly, we hear KNOCKING.

INT. PENTHOUSE HALLWAY – DAY

WARREN WORTHINGTON SENIOR, a patrician father in an expensive suit, knocks on the door. Concerned.

WARREN SENIOR

Warren, son, what are you doing in there?”

Yeah, so it gets bloody. Junior is trying to cut himself. But unlike the normal teenager who does it to alleviate pain by causing pain, he’s actually trying to cut something right out of himself. He’s trying to cut the mutant right out of his body; he’s trying to cut off his wings. But the blonde boy is unsuccessful, and we’re given Warren Jr. (not officially Angel just yet) as our first new X-Men character.

The very next scene shows a young Xavier and a young Erik Lensherr (Magneto) in the back seat of a car driven by a furry blue Beast of a man. The two have a conversation that is essentially a prequel of their confrontations to come. They are friends now, but combative and, in Erik’s case, somewhat competitive.

As their car slows down, the name on the mailbox outside the car is revealed – GREY. Both Xavier and Erik walk in confidently. Erik makes mention of not wanting to meet “every one of them in person,” and Xavier responds that “this one is special.” This interior scene parallels the Iceman/parents scene from X2, except Jean is only 13 and pretty obviously powerful beyond her years. She’s already reading Xavier’s thoughts and she manages to lift the entire neighborhood street’s worth of cars into the air. This isn’t the same Jean Grey we’ve known and loved in the first two films. This is something different.

Finally, the last introduction scene gives us a revisiting of the White House scene from the opening of X2.

“INT. WHITE HOUSE – HALLWAYS – DAY

A large, blue figure passes the PRESIDENTIAL SEAL on the wall. Something is moving, fast, through the corridors of the White House. It is eerily reminiscent of another blue creature at the start of another movie.

We see more glimpses of this thing: his big blue furry feet move deeper and deeper into the core of the building. Finally, he swoops past two MARINE GUARDS with machine-guns.

By the time they look up, he is already gliding through an imposing, high-tech door with the Presidential Seal over the words SITUATION ROOM. An alarm BEEPS, as we…

CUT TO:

INT. WHITE HOUSE – SITUATION ROOM – DAY

PRESIDENT

You’re late, Hank.

On the monitors, scanners have identified his genetic signature: HENRY MCCOY. SECRETARY OF MUTANT AFFAIRS. The alarms go silent.

HANK

Sorry, Mr. President. Traffic on the beltway.”

It seems the new presidency is much more accepting of mutantkind. But here we see what is both one of the strengths and one of the weaknesses of this script as a whole. The parallels to the first two films don’t go away. In fact, we see more of the exact same. In both the first two films, we had interesting and hearty character interactions and rapports, a well-developed villain in Magneto who is more greyly shaded than many realize, and some fun intros and boisterous second acts. Again, we have some interesting character introductions (heck, with such a plethora of good characters to choose from, it’d be hard not to get most of these right), and I’ll get into both Beast’s and Angel’s effective scenes in just a bit. But the villainous sidekicks always seem to get reduced to near Bane-like levels of idiocy (Sabretooth in X1, Lady Deathstrike in X2, and in X3 we have a listless Juggernaut, who is nothing more than a henchman among Magneto’s Brotherhood.) Also, the second act in X3 doesn’t cook nearly as much as the Military vs. the School of Mutants in X2, and it’s more discombobulated, like some of the scenes out of X1. We need one X-Men member to shine in the second act and basically take over the show (like Wolvie did in the school), but we’re not given that here.

Also, the main arching plot in these films is always some lame attempt by someone to change mutants to humans, humans to mutants, or kill one or the other. It’s no different in this script, too, as the plot consists mainly of Worthington Sr.’s plan to de-mutant the collective homo sapien superiors of the world by injecting them with a de-mutant serum. That’s right. A frikkin’ de-mutant serum that glows blue. What is it with the writers for this series and their fascination with serums and machines that alter genetic make-ups? So no, there is no Apocalypse. There are no Sentinels. What we have here is a good ol’ fashioned serum of death as our enemy of choice. And to prove it works, we get a firsthand glimpse of our favorite pseudo-naked blue mutant, Mystique, as she is injected with the serum and she becomes a no-longer-blue version of herself – I just hope she’s still naked when the transformation occurs.

Ok ok, it’s not all bad. There’s a prison break sequence involving a bunch of bad muties on Alcatraz Island. Magneto, amidst all the hubbub of the deadly serum, has once again decided to fight the homo sapiens with his homo superior force. Amongst those that he breaks out are Avalanche, Cannonball, and…

“That Cajun-looking fellow with a thick mop of hair: GAMBIT”

Also among those broken out of the prison is one Cain Marko, otherwise known as Juggernaut. But as mentioned above, he serves no other purpose than to be a lowly henchman for Magneto for the first two acts. What a complete and utter letdown. Gambit, too, doesn’t have anything interesting to do in the first two acts. His appearance is nothing more than a cameo, although he could play a role in the deciding fight at the end of the film, no doubt. Lastly, there is one prisoner who defies all laws of mutantcy and actually masks other mutants’ abilities whenever they near him. His name is Leech, and he is the focal point of the serum. Much like in X2, we have a pretty lame mutant who provides some sort of bodily secretion for a crazed man wanting to get rid of mutantkind – lame and vapid writing if you ask me. The scene ends with Magneto destroying the Golden Gate Bridge in order to build a new bridge for he and the escaped muties to flee on. His powers are on awesome display, and I again wonder why it is that he doesn’t just kill anyone in his path if his powers are so unbelievably strong. And if you say it’s because of Xavier, well, just keep reading.

On the X-Men front, Rogue is having trouble with Ice Man because they can’t touch each other. He begins flirting with Kitty Pride (aka Maggie Grace from “Lost”), and Rogue decides the mutant “cure” might be her best and only option to be with Bobby long-term. She also attends Brotherhood meetings, although the script is unclear if it’s because she’s spying on them or if she actually is contemplating joining. Rogue is again given one of the roundest and most dynamic roles in the film, and it’s too bad the script can’t find a way to make her more of a centerpiece instead of the occasional side moment. On the cool side of things (both literally and figuratively), Bobby and Kitty both share time in none other than the Danger Room. It’s a relatively short sequence, and it’s not all that well-written (of all the things you could do in something as neat as the Danger Room, why have a bunch of bullets flying at two mutants during a World War II setting?!?), but at least it’s given a nod in this film instead of completely forgotten about in the others. It’s easy to feel Bobby’s teenage desires kick in here over his loyalty and relationship with the untouchable Rogue. The X-Men scripts nail the interpersonal relationships of the X-Men and the Brotherhood (well, at least as far as Magneto and Mystique are concerned), and this film is no exception.

Beast has an interesting scene with Iceman and Kitty Pride when they infiltrate the Worthington company to decipher if the advertised mutant “cure” is for real or not. If done right, it could be one of the best sequences in the first two acts. The key will be getting Beast’s super dexterity to a realistically believable level. The script describes his movements as:

“breathtaking to behold. He is beyond agile, a blur of acrobatic blue fur. He works his way through the final gauntlet of security, and enters the main lab, where he snatches a sample of the cure.”

I just don’t want to end up with a big CGI-fest of movements like those that Yoda or the Emperor perform in Episode III. Talk about jarring and pulling you out of any semblance of reality… ugh. And the Kelsey Grammer casting isn’t exactly awe-inspiring either. Beast could end up being a cluster-fuck of a character if they don’t nail his CGI appearance and movements down.

Finally, in terms of the X-Men, my favorite scene in the script involves Warren Jr.’s decision to not undergo the “cure” to his mutant birth. With his wings held under his trench coat by a complex harness, the scene unfolds…

“WARREN

Wait, I don’t want to do this.

WORTHINGTON SR.

Warren, just calm down.

WARREN

No. Stop!

Worthington joins the orderlies in trying to hold him still.

WORTHINGTON SR.

Do it. Quickly!

Warren’s thrashing starts loosening the straps. He strains against his harness and suddenly…

SNAP!

The harness breaks into pieces and…

HIS WINGS UNFURL!

It is a magnificent sight, truly inspiring to behold. Everyone in the room freezes.

Even his father is speechless. For a moment.

WORTHINGTON SR.

Warren… we discussed this. This is what you want.

WARREN

No. It’s what you want.

Seeing the guards blocking the door, Angel spins to the glass windows –

WORTHINGTON SR.

Warren, NO!

And dives through them!

EXT. WORTHINGTON INDUSTRIES

The line of mutants look up as glass fragments explode out from the façade of the building. They watch in awe as…

AN ANGEL SOARS OVER THEM.

Some cross themselves, others merely stare, but none of them will forget this moment. They shield their eyes as ANGEL disappears into the sky.”

I have no idea what they plan on using Angel for in the future (Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, anyone?), but he ends up at the X-Mansion at the end of Act II. It’s where he belongs. For what little he is in the script that I have read, he’s given plenty of room to shine. It will be interesting to see what actor they get for the role and also what part the character will play in the finale.

Big surprise – Jean Grey does come back, except she’s not that shy, selfless girl learning to find and use her powers anymore. She’s something else entirely, and it’s a doozy. They don’t call her Phoenix, but it’s obvious she is no longer Doctor Grey. She has very little control of her powers at first, too. And when I say very little control, I mean it. Take this first encounter with her when our washed up Cyclops, with full-on scruffy look, decides to risk a trip back to Alkali Lake…

“The water parts.

Something emerges from the center of the lake.

A flicker gets brighter, lighting the lake.

A creature of PURE ENERGY rises from the depths.

It glows like a living star, emanating wave after wave of telekinetic energy.

Scott watches, awestruck, as the star slowly descends, and the maelstrom of gravity passes. As the glow flutters, Scott takes his first step forward.

He is shocked by what he sees in the epicenter:

SCOTT

Jean…?

She is alive. Jean Grey is reborn.

She looks at her limbs, her skin. Stunned, disoriented.

SCOTT (CONT’D)

(muttering)

A dream… Has to be a dream…

But she looks up. She seems real. She blinks, slowly recognizing him, memories flooding back now.

JEAN

(a whisper)

Scott?

Her voice makes him believe. His tears of pain turn to tears of joy. He steps toward her.

SCOTT

How… how could you come back?

Jean looks at her limbs again, feeling her power.

JEAN

(still dazed)

I don’t know.

Scott doesn’t care. He takes her in his arms, and holds her close, hugging tight. He pulls back, looks at her.

JEAN (CONT’D)

Take these off.

She reaches toward his glasses. He reels back, protecting her. She shakes her head, feeling her strength.

JEAN (CONT’D)

Trust me. I can control it.”

Except she can’t. The script describes Scott’s skin as “shivering” until he is simply de-molecularized. No more Cyclops. Poof, he up and vanishes like a fart in the wind. Now, I don’t have a particular fondness for the character of Cyke, and if he were the only X-Men character that she decimates, it might actually work for the better. James Marsden was never a particularly strong actor, and his only legitimate place in the first two films has been as the thorn in Wolverine’s side in acquiring the love of Jean Grey. But even Wolvie can smell something fishy about this particular version of Jean. And he finds out from the Professor that Xavier himself put mental blocks in Jean’s mind when she was young (remember the 13-year-old visit?) so that she couldn’t harm anyone with her extraordinary powers.

Unfortunately for Xavier, not only are those mental blocks now gone, but she also finds out from Magneto that the Professor put those blocks in without asking her. Big mistake. In a trip back to a setting from the beginning of the film, both Magneto and his Brotherhood (including henchman-like Juggernaut) meet Xavier and his X-Men at Jean’s old home. Jean, or what’s left of her, is inside and the Professor and Magneto go in alone to see her. This is when Magneto reveals to her that the Professor was the one who blocked her mind. She seems none too pleased with this, and the two mental powerhouses lock minds. [OKAY... HERE’S WHERE I HAD TO REMOVE A CHUNK OF THE MOST SPOILERY STUFF, SIMPLY BECAUSE I CAN’T RUIN IT IN GOOD CONSCIENCE THIS FAR AWAY FROM RELEASE - Moriarty]

I guess that’s one way to go about writing the Dark Phoenix Saga…

:rolls eyes and makes wretching motions toward the script:

So Cyclops is dead, and an annoying but sexually active Storm has taken his place as field leader. Magneto is ready to seize his opportunity of freedom to destroy mankind, although without his most helpful of mutants, Mystique, who is no longer a member of homo sapien superior-kind. And Phoenix is flying all crazy-like somewhere, just waiting to de-molecularize the next person who tries to kiss her or screw with her mind. Act III probably won’t be able to top the first two acts, both in effective character-building rapport (probably the best thing about the X-Men films, really) as well as sheer lunacy. The deaths or de-mutantinizations of four important characters from the first two films absolutely screams of problems with contract renewals. Oh well. I just hope they get Angela Bassett to lead the X-Men, because I sure as hell ain’t gonna buy into weak-assed Halle Berry leading the charge.

What works? The character interactions, especially the X-Men, are top-notch. I’m very wary about the Storm/Wolverine relationship, mostly because the two don’t do anything in the first two acts except screw each other, but besides that, the interplays between the characters are well done. The threesome of Bobby, Kitty, and Rogue are developed in a cogent and convincing manner. As mentioned above, Rogue is given some fleshy material for her character, and Paquin could run with it. Beast has an honest chance to stand out, too, although that could be for either good or bad reasons. The character is given a decent work-up as one of the original X-Men of Xavier’s school, and his interactions with the current X-Men and his physical feats are both well-written. Is it too much to ask that an actual artist be given the reins of animating his dexterous moments and blue furry self as opposed to some vacuous CGI wannabe? I think having a true artist in charge of these CGI moments is going to be paramount to whether or not Beast actually works on-screen or not. Also working in the script is Phoenix’s electric bursts – I may not agree with how and why the script makes her do what she does, but her power is undeniable. Let’s just hope that the effects look a little more interesting and real than the cartoonish fire Jean was emitting at the end of X2. Magneto, too, is given an interesting moment with Mystique as he recognizes she has been devolved into a human being. Whereas the X-Men band together, we see the divisive nature of the Brotherhood in action here, and it works. Lastly, the character intro for Angel as he flies out the window is nailed.

What’s not so hot? Well, the plot sucks, and that’s never a good sign. When the driving point of the plot is a blue serum derived from a useless mutant (read: Plot Device), I’d have to say the studio probably got its money’s worth out of the monkey assembly line in the basement. Ouch. If the Sentinels show up in the third act, it’s redeemed. Otherwise, this feels like a cop-out of sorts. Meanwhile, Wolverine feels like he’s been neutered (or is it just pussy-whipped by Storm?), and really doesn’t do much except hang out with Storm the whole time – not the best use of the most well-known X-Man around. And Storm’s annoying as usual. If they really want to hand the face of the X-Men over to Halle Berry, woe to the unsuspecting fan who walks into that theatre. Cyke dying wasn’t so horrible (he may’ve been the glue for the X-Men team, but he was just anal enough for me not to really care – plus, as I said above, Marsden was pretty mediocre), but [THE SECOND CHARACTER TO DIE] went out with almost nothing but a whimper. His character in this film is severely underdeveloped, and what’s worse is that they add Cain Marko just as [SOMEONE] is killed off? Weirdsville. The Mystique devolution really blows, too, as she’s the only character who could hold a candle to Magneto on the Brotherhood side of things. Say what you want about how they’ve overused the character in the first two films, but Romijin has actually grown into a decent actress in the last few years. Losing her feels like a punch in the gut to the credibility of the Brotherhood. Oh, and did I forget to mention the lack of decent action pieces? The Beast infiltration of the Worthington Industries lab isn’t bad, but it’s written as if it’s a 60-second montage, not a driving scene. Magneto’s break-in of the prison could be interesting, too, but it’s certainly not written as such on the page. The director is going to have to have vision to pull off both of these sequences, which leads to…

Good luck to the director who takes on this project. Vaughn probably knew this one was about to blow up in his face, and that’s why he ran. Maybe a strong writer can come in and still make this an effective script, but the main plot, and the utter oblivion of [ONE OF THE CHARACTERS] especially, are currently a death knell in this project. And now that Ratner’s aboard, well, good luck X-Fans is more like it.

Hope this message finds you and finds you well…

The Big Hurt

Regarding the Ratner issue, here’s what I’m thinking. I think he’s an entirely competent but uninspired filmmaker. I don’t hate his movies. There are moments where actors do nice work in his films, particularly in THE FAMILY MAN, where Tea Leoni, Nic Cage, and that amazing little girl all manage to overcome a by-the-numbers bit of treacle, and I think his films look really nice. Ratner surrounds himself with people who pick up the slack. The idea of Lalo Schifrin writing a score for an X-MEN movie gives me wood. I’m sure he’ll have a top-flight cinematographer and an amazing second-unit guy, so the action should be strong. We’ve still got the X-MEN cast in place, and Famke Janssen being front and center as Jean Grey is a good thing. She’s been waiting to really run with this character since she started, and she should be a blast to watch. Kelsey Grammer is a perfect choice for this particular version of The Beast, since he’s more politician than action hero, and Kelsey’s got exactly the right charisma to pull that off. If you’re looking to find something to get upset about, it seems like Ratner’s the least of the problems that this film has. I'd be more concerned about how two of the elder statesmen of the series are going to be leaving, and what that means for the franchise as a whole. I'd be more concerned about pushing Halle Berry, whose contempt for the series almost matches Rothman's, into the center of things. And I'd be especially concerned about marginalizing Wolverine, who is the undisputed star of the series so far. Don't piss Hugh off, guys, because you're going to need him to rebuild if this one doesn't work. And before you yell at me for not giving you the spoilers about who dies, I can tell you that the set-up to the film lays it all out pretty neatly. Read the review again. You know who dies. It's all right there.

The real problems are two-fold: money and time. By committing to that release date, Fox has also committed to spending whatever they have to, and they may well find themselves cutting sequences or characters simply because of budget. Let’s say Zak Penn and Simon Kinberg have cracked the problems with the script and they’ve managed to find a way to make that cure storyline something that (A) isn’t going to make Joss Whedon feel like he’s been ripped off and (B) isn’t an exact retread of the Stryker storyline in the second film. Let’s say the script is now amazing. When Fox runs up against the realities of getting this film onscreen when they say they’re going to, all we have to do is look at Rothman’s behavior in the past to anticipate what’s going to happen.

In a perfect world, Fox would blink. I’ve even heard whispers that, given the proper motivation, DeSanto and Singer and Dougherty and Harris would be more than happy to come back and, at the very least, brainstorm with the team that’s in place to try to make this thing great. No one wants to watch something they poured so much personal energy into crumble. No one, that seems, except the upper brass at Fox.

Forget the Sentinels. Forget Magneto. It’s Tom Rothman and his personal Brotherhood, guys like Alex Young and Hutch Parker, who are poised to finally kill off Xavier’s students once and for all.

For now, thanks to TheBigHurt, who did a hell of a job, and to you guys for your patience. Hope it was worth the wait. I’ll be back this week with reviews of THE ARISTOCRATS, BEWITCHED, BROKEN FLOWERS, MARCH OF THE PENGUINS, my new DVD SHELF, and a few script reviews of my own. Until then...

"Moriarty" out.





Readers Talkback

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  • June 13, 2005, 3:16 a.m. CST

    What the hell??

    by anuar

    No one is interested to talkback?

  • June 13, 2005, 3:29 a.m. CST

    Oh dear...

    by Charlie & Tex

    ...looks like this one is going to take a nose-dive - one wonders if the previous director would have fared much better, given the decidedly naff script from which he would've worked from. Never mind, there's always Supes next year...

  • June 13, 2005, 3:38 a.m. CST

    So the other death is either...

    by cranialooze

    Jean Grey or Xavier...or maybe even Magneto? Since it seems the three of them are in that scene and we were told two characters bite it, and we know one of them is Cyclops. I could see Patrick Steward wanting a good death scene, though storywise Jean Grey should get it to balance Scott's death. (oh and then a tacky reunited in heaven scene straight out of "Somewhere in Time") Lol

  • June 13, 2005, 3:45 a.m. CST

    So Cyclops and Prof X bite it, huh?

    by DarthHomercles

    This movie will both suck and blow. Too bad. I really liked the first two.

  • June 13, 2005, 3:49 a.m. CST

    For the love of all things good in this world....

    by seanny_d

    Stop now, Fox. What a ridiculous mish-mash of insanity. Killing Cyclops like that? And seriously...what's the point of the Dark Pheonix in this. "Boo hoo! I'm mad that Professor X put these restraints on me. Now, he must die." Dumb. On IESB.com, there was an interview with one of the writers (and my new personification of the Devil, Rothman. Hey, I'm just jumping on the bandwagon of this guy) and he said the script had changed considerably since then. Although, he wouldn't get into the changes. Let's hope they were for the better....

  • June 13, 2005, 3:50 a.m. CST

    Yeah, it aint Jean that dies

    by Monkey Butler

    Mori said that it was two elder statesMEN, and the reviewer mentioned the idocy of introducing Juggernaut (X's half-brother isn't he?) while killing off "somebody". That somebody is Xavier. And it's a stupid thing to do. I'm guessing that Fox just want it to be "controversial" and "edgy" because being a comic-book movie just doesn't cut it anymore. The problem is that nobody really cares about X-men except the comic fans, and any excitment for the project will be because of their word of mouth. So Fox doing something like this isn't going to win over anybody. Bring back Singer, and ignore all the people whinging about his "agenda".

  • June 13, 2005, 3:50 a.m. CST

    I guess McSwanWeeny won't be trying to set up anything at Fo

    by SmarkJobber

    Good farking scoop, Mori, if it is the real deal. As far as all of the deaths [POTENTIAL SPOILER], I guess I'm a tad peeved they just atomize Cyclops -- but totally bummed about eliminating The Magnetic One and The Good Prof. I don't know how the series could survive taking two of the best characters and performers out in one movie, and apparently without ceremony.

  • June 13, 2005, 3:51 a.m. CST

    Kinsberg Video

    by seanny_d

    The video was of Kinberg, here's the link. http://www.iesb.net/video/simonkinberg.wmv And here's the Rothman video http://www.iesb.net/video/tomrothmanmms1.wmv

  • June 13, 2005, 3:53 a.m. CST

    Ah, this made my whole morning....

    by DocPazuzu

    ...Not the script, but the hanging out to dry of self-proclaimed "geek" Rothman. Jesus, what an asshole. Great piece, Mori, especially the Lloyd Bentsen-style dressing down of that cockmaster.

  • June 13, 2005, 4 a.m. CST

    If anything remotely resembling this makes it to screen anyone w

    by IndustryKiller

    It's time to call a spade a spade and stop going to comic book films if they look awful. It's the only way to get the message across. And to anyone who says fans can't make a difference just look at the JJ Abrahms Superman script, anyone who says this site didn't play an integral role in killing it is fucking kidding themselves. And Jesus am I sick of them making Wolverine a pussy in these films, watch the first two films again and tell me he is anywhere near as bad ass as he should be.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:01 a.m. CST

    Yeah. This rips off Joss and the previous film very hard. Plus

    by LordEnigma

    YOU CANT KILL CYKE OR FUCKING CHUCK! Jesus. What exec wants to destroy their tentpole franchise? Who the fuck are these guys? I hope one of Rupert's more inclined sons can pull himself away from FOX NEWS for two minutes, and read this shit. Something has to be done about people who want to ruin your fucking MAJOR FRANCHISE! You have other stuff in development, but not like these assholes will give it the time or the money to be developed. Whateverthecase, these X-Men flicks are dead. When Wolvie, they 99 action figure having man, does not stand as the focal centre of a flick. The world at large has to know that they are dealing with one shitty movie. Total ass.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:09 a.m. CST

    Sounds like shit.

    by Grando

    ..No mention of Pyro or Nightcrawler coming back?

  • June 13, 2005, 4:13 a.m. CST

    Why is AICN censoring spoilers?

    by NetSlut

    I thought the idea was AICN heard something cool, then told everyone. Not some half-assed attempt to *not* tell people, and then claim that all the information is laid out anyway. Really, what's the point? In an article entitled "Script Review of X3", who's going to read it who cares about not knowing big events?

  • June 13, 2005, 4:16 a.m. CST

    They Should Call it X-Men Returns

    by Harlow

    And have a big penis spaceship and they could all have special X-men American Express Cards and they could have ice skates in their boots and nipples on their X-men suits. I mean...come on, Look how creative Schumaher was when he sank a franchise. I ussually think the talkbackers are way too negative but I gotta cowboy up and say this idea sounds absolutely terrible. Is it really that hard to think up a decent sequel with all the groundwork laid in X2? This should be a no brainer. This is what I'd do (and I bet Singer and the writers were setting up). Have some mutant hating nation like...I don't know...Genosha...start taking a more proactive role in the elimination of mutants. Have them put the mutants in camps. Use Sentinals to round them up and kill them. Start having mutant genocide in Genosha (have all this very remniscent of the recent events in Serbia). Anyway, Genosha is an ally and a trade partner of the US's so the worst the USA will do is a slap on the wrist. During all this, Jean Grey comes back...and she's powerful (all tweaked to the gills with her Phoenix Powers)and what she sees pisses her and the Phoenix off...bad. She goes to Genosha and completely freaks out. She uses her powers to destroy an ENTIRE nation (much like the entire planet idea from the Dark Phoenix saga). So it's up to the X-men to take her down (and the surviving sentinals) down. Put them in an impossible situation. Make us feel the stakes. Even if the X-men win, they lose because that means Jean Grey is dead (and they or preferably Cyclops had to kill her). I mean, isn't this the obvious continuation of the arc of the movies and the arcs of the characters? Fox should wait and see if they can't bring Singer back after Superman Returns. This movie doesn't have to be made NOW. Sure it would make a lot of money. But what's after that? What do you do when the goodwill towards this franchise is spent. Look how much money the Hulk franchise is making. I hope Fox does the right thing and pushes back production until they have a decent script in place.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:20 a.m. CST

    XXX2 will be better than X3? Wow.

    by andrew coleman

    It's like Fox wants to loose money, it's really funny. This is going to suck even if some of the script is good. They should just say screw it and have Apocolypse come and kill all of the X-men!!! Now that would end on a wtf vibe but at least we'd all get a kick out of it instead of this crap. SPOILER: I'd put my money on Grey killing ProfX and Magneto at the same time by crushing their minds or something, which would be really stupid but funny to watch. I can't wait for the Wolverine movie now and the Magneto vs Nazi movie. X3 will suck and blow and bomb.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:22 a.m. CST

    I abandoned Marvel the moment magneto extracted wolverine's

    by Anla'shok

    Haven't regretted since.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:23 a.m. CST

    Ludicrous, simply ludicrous

    by PacinoHatersGoHo

    X1: Showing lots of potential, but hackneyed and hodge-podge X2: Far far better than its predecessor, they cleaned out most of the kinks, a near-perfect superhero film X3: Dead dead dead, de-mutated... this is a description of the film, not an outline of plot "highlights."

  • June 13, 2005, 4:30 a.m. CST

    Rothman

    by MaulRat

    Surely you'd look at every possible pro and con of bringing this particular version of Xmen to screen and think "hmmm, lack of originality, deviation from original source material, killing of beloved characters/actors, taking real thespians out and giving an egomaniacal primadonna with a replacable character "a more central role", so she won an oscar... so did Marissa Tomei, look what it's done for her... and Marisa Tomei is an ass load more likable... uhh maybe we should pass on this one guys?"............... Sum?.. a possible end of a franchise and perhaps even an end to any public interest in future spin offs"... I've known people who'd eat the cheese off the top of pizza boxes instead of buying food, just to save a buck... but if this is a case of striking while the iron was hot.. you should have done that by resigning the entire crew of the last movie to at LEAST one more movie.. To me it sounds more like increasing profits, rushing the production, but paying less, I've known people who'd eat the cheese from the tops of pizza boxes instead of buying food, but that is penny pinching of the worst variety... You foolish little man.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:32 a.m. CST

    X-Men 3

    by jambaman84

    Damn it for not saying who dies! But for everyone who's pissed off about Cyclopse dying in this movie... wow you guys need help badly... He's not only the worst actor, but he barely has any lines in BOTH MOVIES!!! So, whats with all the damn complaining about his death? He was barely in the movies anyway! Plus, this movie sounds pretty dumb, why can't they just bring the damn Sentinals in already?? Is it really that hard to make a movie about them being the villians???? IS IT!?!?!?!?!?!?

  • June 13, 2005, 4:33 a.m. CST

    From a Non Fan

    by DarthBen

    I've never read an X-men Comic. The closest I came was being a fan of the early 90s cartoon. Look, I'm not a big X-men Fanboy, but I am a movie fan, and here's my take: I didn't like X Men 1. I had problems. I hated the "Mutant wave" plot device. I loved Magneto, Prof X, basically all the characters. But the actual story kinda sucked. However, you know what X Men 1 did? It set up X Men 2. Which was really good. Great action, great dialouge, great character moments. Magneto was a god. Wolverine was badass. It was dark and creepy and sad and funny all at the same time. And you know why I loved X Men 2? Because it was (or so I thought) setting up X Men 3. I thought this to be a Bryan Singer trilogy. After 3, I figured he'd bail. But I thought he would get his third film to complete the arc. Here's what I wanted in 3: Dark Phoenix. Cyclops-Wolverine-Jean Grey resolution. Magneto-Prof X resolution. And what I was most looking forward to: Iceman vs. Pyro. Pyro was the Anakin Skywalker of the series, and its amazing how they got him right in one movie as opposed to sort of right with three. But come on, X2 was basically screaming Pyro vs. Iceman in X3! As it stands, if they get rid of Mystique, Cyclops (both expendable) Professor X and Magneto (I read 4 casualties, two deaths, two demutantizings) they'll have a franchise limping. While I'm looking forward to it, I think that X3 could be served better by the writers watching the previous two films again and trying to create a compelling and truthful third act.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:35 a.m. CST

    aw, fuck...

    by tommy5tone

    nothing much more to say than that.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:35 a.m. CST

    What can I say....

    by MaulRat

    A man can never have enough pizza box cheese...... The only time Wolvie has been as bad ass as he could be was the first scene he's in, leaning against the cage, dark and mysterious... smoking a stogie... bad. Mo.... Fo..

  • June 13, 2005, 4:38 a.m. CST

    me thinks Rothman needs a dictionary..

    by MaulRat

    to look up the meaning of "meretricious"

  • June 13, 2005, 4:39 a.m. CST

    That does sound pretty foreboding.

    by buckaroo_banzai

    But don't many people shit on people like moviemack and Mister Miracle who make up their minds after reading a leaked script? And I'd be careful, M. Don't shit where you eat. Sure, Rothman is a complete douche bag, I've met him, but yikes. He's easily the new Jon Peters.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:40 a.m. CST

    Wolvie the Bad ASS

    by DarthBen

    Look, its hard to be a real bad muthafucka in a pg13 movie, but when he went apeshit on the military guys in X2...comeon!

  • June 13, 2005, 4:42 a.m. CST

    Hopefully they fire Rothman over this

    by chien_sale

    I think they should 1. Keep the serum because 2. It involves young Angel, and I like that character/part 3. Keep Jean Rebirth 4. Use Beast better. Don`t hire Grammer because it needs to be physical. `CAN EVERYTHING ELSE.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:55 a.m. CST

    Did someone lead Rothman to believe this was an Alan Moore prope

    by PacinoHatersGoHo

    Seriously, there's a THICK line between changing things to adapt a comic to the screen, taking certain cinematic liberties (as in Batman Begins), and pulling a Shumacher... assuming this report is accurate, then something fishy is definitely going on. It's time for AICN to get vocal, or we'll end up with "X3: X-Men and Robin"

  • June 13, 2005, 5:11 a.m. CST

    here's your solution for the stupid-ass de-mutant serum x2 r

    by BEARison Ford

    while definitely not the best x-story out there, if they want to continue to try and have plotlines which focus on man fucking over mutants, why not have Warrington Sr. try and develop a de-mutantizing virus which then turns into the legacy virus, which as we all know, flat out kills mutants? that way you can still have a bodycount and still get your man vs. mutie subplot going on. if they fixed this and the AWFUL handling of Dark Phoenix, this script wouldn't be bad. Oh, and what the fuck is up with Wolvie fucking Storm? Give me a fucking break. I'm still trying to process a lot of this info but geez... it's hard not to be a little worried here guys, right? It really makes you think whether or not Arad et al really give a shit what the hardcore fans think. There's a reason why this stuff was popular to begin with folks, it doesn't need to be sanitized and raped for the mass population.

  • June 13, 2005, 5:23 a.m. CST

    Rothman is an idiot

    by The_General

    Did Rothman seriously say, "Stay close to the source material"? Really? Has he ever read any Marvel comic at all. You tell me, Mr. Rothman, where in the entire history of the Fantastic Four, was Dr. Doom on board that space station when Reed, Sue, Johnny, and Ben were bombarded by cosmic rays? Did you see the look in his eyes when he was asked if Galactus would be in the Surfer movie? He had no idea who Galactus was!! It would seem to me that to be true to the source material one would actually have to know it! What a dumbass. All I can say is thank God Universal wrenched away Serenity from this complete retard. Why, oh why, do all the great properties fall into the hands of complete and total jackasses?!?! Kiss X-Men goodbye my friends.

  • June 13, 2005, 5:32 a.m. CST

    Couldn't Fox have this site shut down for reproducing copyri

    by Cash Bailey

    I've heard of people doing it in the past.

  • June 13, 2005, 5:40 a.m. CST

    Whoever this Mr Rothman is, he kicked Devlin and Emmerich and sa

    by SalvatoreGravano

    He got rid of "Stephen Norrington"? Even better! Another reason to support Mr Rothman (and find out who he is... :-P) I don't know the comic books ("graphic novels", hah, hah!) and don't want to, so I skipped some 70% of the "Juggerneto beats the Cyclop" fluff, but since it's always nice to see deaths of main characters, this might actually be the first watchable "X-Men" flick made so far. Then again, there *is* the Brett Rat issue. Oh, by the way, I'm sure Mr Rothman is going to read this valid and worthy critique, and is going to be thunderstruck by it, to the point of changing any decisions he made... (There, I actually managed to type that and prevent myself from laughing while doing that)

  • June 13, 2005, 5:44 a.m. CST

    CONGRATS MORI !!!!

    by TenderBranson

    for having the balls to stand up and let the truth be known. the fact of the matter is that this site is incredibly influential. and hopefully the right person is reading the bitching and moaning going on, and takes it to heart. plus i love hearing industry dirt and gossip ;)

  • June 13, 2005, 5:45 a.m. CST

    Crap

    by Peter Venkman

    What a way to ruin a franchise that could last decades. This producer sounds like Gary the Retard.

  • June 13, 2005, 5:45 a.m. CST

    r.i.p x men 2000-2003

    by tylerdurden6790

    lets hope someone fires that fuck rothman if I was hugh jackman I would stop development on wolverine by refusing to star in it then fox will sack that fucker rothman and who knows dump that other fucker brett ratner

  • June 13, 2005, 6:13 a.m. CST

    no way in HELL I'm gonna watch this abortion!

    by frankenchr1st

    IF and only IF I ever see it, it will be a downloaded copy. You won't get a single cent from me Foxtards!

  • June 13, 2005, 6:14 a.m. CST

    mori, that was something...geez what a write up..youre right bre

    by Spacesheik

    this is depressing news - you always expect the x men films to go big - sentinels etc - but they never do , they always resort to some new businessma/military villian like that Stryker from X2.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:25 a.m. CST

    well!ain't that a bitch?

    by aldrin_amt

    come one talkbackers!wake the fuck up and smell the goddamm coffee.why can't you fucks get it?Normally when a movie gets made and breaks some ground in someway and also makes a ton of cash,the director and the team are allowed by the studios to make the sequel.well,if the sequel clicks in the same manner the greedy cooperate fucks start pimpin the franchise to make the 3rd installment and this is where the dumdass fucks tighten the grip on the team that made it possible.they start interfering in the movie's development from day one and by day 30 they would have fucked everything up.they don't give a fuck about the fanbase of the actual story/comic/etc that was the basis of the movie.in my opinion the only 2 fucks who got away with it was LUCAS and JACKSON.that too because one had the sole right of ownership and the other made all 3 films at one go.it is sad but true.i wouldn't be suprised if the new batman went down the same way,but i'm sure the sequel will be great.what worries me will be the 3rd installment.the only way i see it for people who really love movies for what they are should just ignore such movies when they come out and wait fot its dvd/video release if curious enough.if this becomes a trend,soon enough the studio fucks will have their panties in a bunch as they will have no fucking idea on what rocks or sucks.also we all should show some weirdass support for a real dumb shit of a movie,some b grade movie starring BRIAN BOSWORTH or something and make that sucker the blockbuster of the year.so stop your moaning,nobody gives a fuck with what you think though you have all the right to complain if your a fan and your ideal comic/story gets gang raped by the hollywood fucks.so sit back,have a drink and shut the fuck up

  • June 13, 2005, 6:25 a.m. CST

    the suits vs. the artists

    by stvnhthr

    This is a perfect example of why Hollywood is such a weird business to work in. Half the time the story behind the movies is more interesting than what makes it to the big screen. It is why a movie studio would be the perfect setting for a reality show, but because of Hollywood

  • June 13, 2005, 6:28 a.m. CST

    sorry for the double post, ignore the first one

    by stvnhthr

    This is a perfect example of why Hollywood is such a weird business to work in. Half the time the story behind the movies is more interesting than what makes it to the big screen. It is why a movie studio would be the perfect setting for a reality show, but because of Hollywood

  • June 13, 2005, 6:31 a.m. CST

    It sounds like a remake of the last film, except ditching Cyke a

    by Darksider

    Father of mutant what to get rid of all Muties. Sound familiar? Iceman and Rogue still haven't figured out the relationship yet? A prison breakout? No Sentinels or other X-men baddie besides Magneto and cronies? Juggernault is in prison and a flunkie? Did anyone mention he was UNSTOPPABLE and uh, not a mutant? And we were worried about Ratner? Well, he will still be a problem because I'm sure he will do exactly what the script says. Word for word. I also can't believe that would try to make us think that the White House would appoint a mutant to the staff after the last film when a mutant attacked the President and later group of them threatened him in the Oval Office. Sure.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:36 a.m. CST

    Kitty Pride sucks, Jean Greay needs to have have a dyke haircut,

    by Mr. Profit

    X3 will suck worst than the 1st 2 films. Why is it hard to write kick ass action for an established summer blockbuster series? Sequels are when you up the ante actionwise. You don't do stupid things with the characters. The way the above reads sounds sillier than an episode of Passions. This is an absolute shame. An X3 directed by Proyas would have been awesome. Fix the script, make sure it's hot, and then go back and direct the fucking thing, with PROYAS. Why beat Superman to the punch when Supes might be lackluster too? I dont get the Singer fellating, because X1 and X2 were not great. They were OK and could have been awesome. An XMen film should rival the 1st Matrix film.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:36 a.m. CST

    The Number One Xmen Fan Says.......

    by BrainFart

    YOU CANT KILL Proffessor X, magneto or Cyclops (i dont care how bad he acts) Xmen cant exist without Cyclops, the prof, and magneto and the brotherhood needs mystique to exist. I was never too impressed with the dark pheonix story but im pretty sure jean never killed cyclops. Fuck this shit. The only bad guys killed so far were not crucial to the xmen storylines, singer and co. made sure of this so they could have productive sequels. Fox is now backed them into the corner with no where to go. Kill professor X? What are they fucken stupid. do they think its a coincidence that xmen and professor X share a letter. if eddie murphy didnt want to make a beverly hills cop sequel would they put judge rienhold as the star ( *shudder* )and still call it beverly hills cop. Or if the actor playing harry potter was not signed on would they just kill him off and put out a sequel anyways? "Harry Potter and the unexcussed abcence". Its clear this is the final xmen movie and the begining of the spinoffs and prequels. I dont care if spielburg, rami and tarenteno got together to codirect this movie it will still be a sacrelidge. Fox should open a butchers shop, i know they will be right at home with that profession. Well think of it this way only 8 years till "xmen begins" comes out.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:41 a.m. CST

    Rothman is a typical studio executive

    by Bari Umenema

    In other words he's a fucking moron who gets lucky on movies he hates and strikes out on movies he loves. Any one of you Talkbackers could do just as good a job if not better than Rothman or any studio exec. You would choose a few scripts to green light that would make a lot of money and you would choose more scripts that lose money. There is no skill here that any of you don't have. In fact you would probably make better movies. So if you're willing to blow job and back stab your way up the showbiz ladder like Rothman did you too can run a major motion picture studio too and make stupid decisions and occasionally get really lucky then screw everything up by interfering with the filmmakers who gave you such success. Chasing Emmerich and Devlin away from ID4 2 was brilliant! None of you guys could do that which is why you're there and Rothman is right here peeking over my shoulder with a gun to my head forcing me to type these words as he screams them in my ear.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:42 a.m. CST

    Correction, *needs to NOT have a dyke haircut.

    by Mr. Profit

    Seriously, her hair was odd in X2. She was also so fucking skinny.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:45 a.m. CST

    Kinberg says the script has changed alot. Huh?

    by Darksider

    He says major plotline includes Dark Phoenix. Major characters include Juggernaut, Beast, Kitty Pryde, and Angel. Gambit has a minor role (which is a mistake because he could have been working for Mr. Sinister secretly and be setting him up for X4 or something). What Kinberg said on the video sounds exactly like what I've read here. Major script changes my ass.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:52 a.m. CST

    You've got wonder why we haven't seen a Wolverine flick

    by Darksider

    I'm not a big fan of Wolverine, but it's kind of obvious. He has carried most of the X-men films. He has a huge fan base. Hugh Jackman must want to get paid. Didn't X-men come out in 2000 and a Wolvie film hasn't been developed yet? Hell Daredevil tanked and Electra got her own damn film like 2 years later. Something has to be behind this.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:54 a.m. CST

    Ugh

    by enemakid

    I saw Batman Begins this morning... and I read this script review right now. Yeah... the tide is turning.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:59 a.m. CST

    They want X3 for Memorial Weekend? No fucking way X3 can compete

    by Spacesheik

    Just delay the fucking film Fox and FIX IT.

  • June 13, 2005, 7:06 a.m. CST

    Good Gravy, some of you folks are so stupid

    by InBloom

    ...Why are you writing off a movie which hasn't even begun filming yet? I know better than most people why Rothman is an asshole, but X1 and X2 were pretty good in spite of him, were they not? The tone of this article is just all over the place. I know some of the opinions are those of Mori, and some of them are TheBigHurt's, but both of those people contradict themselves at various points in their writings: The first two films were great/the first two films X2 had great characters/X2 had lame characters Kelsey Grammar is a bad choice/Grammar is an inspired choice, and here's one of my favorites: there is a lack of decent action set-pieces, despite the fact that MAGNETO DISASSEMBLES THE FUCKING GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE AND REARRANGES INTO A BRIDGE FOR HIMSELF AND HIS BUDDIES. Yeesh, the film would be worth it for that scene alone. And finally, please call all you dick-witted spengalis who think that Cyclops is dead please learn to READ IN BETWEEN THE FUCKING LINES? If Phoenix "de-molecularizes" Cyclops, do you not think that maybe, just maybe, she'll be able to "re-molecularize"him at a later point in the movie, or even in the next movie. C'mon, people! "de-molecularizing" in a superhero film is a quick and easy way to apparently kill of a character, while leaving the door open because it is a (say it with me)REVERSIBLE PROCESS. And yes, clearly the other character to be "killed off" is Xavier - in this draft of the film, which for all we know contains several red herrings to prevent this kind of internet speculation. Put it this way, if Xavier is dead at the end of X3, I will eat a staple gun. As I say, I'm all for heaping opprobrium on Rothman's head - I probably have more reason than most of you to do so, in fact. However, X3 is most certainly not a write-off just yet. Damn, you fanboys love your hair-trigger reactions, don't you?

  • June 13, 2005, 7:07 a.m. CST

    Genosha could have easily been used.

    by Darksider

    Set it up like a mutant paradise, where mutants can get away and be with their own kind when actually the Sentinels are there waiting to round up and exterminate your happy ass. A Wolverine flick with Highlander like flashbacks would kick ass. You could have a ton of mutant cameos, wars, and all kinds of shit. So much potential wasted in the X-men. It could be the Marvel Comics' version of Star Wars.

  • June 13, 2005, 7:14 a.m. CST

    Creative decisions fueled by greed and personal vendettas - SWEL

    by halfmadjesus

    I'd say the story specifics sound about 20% interesting (the Angel stuff, maybe the Danger Room scene, possibly the bits with Rogue and the Brotherhood). The other 80% sounds like ass drippings. I will say this much: Fox seems almost pathologically committed to NOT delivering on things many fans want to see from this franchise in terms of major plot (Sentinels, Dark Phoenix, etc.) They might as well cut the Danger Room sequence again and stay true to form. Blue vials of anti-mutant serum might be easy on the budget, but they don't exactly compel me to want to see this movie. In the 100% completely retarded arena - killing Cyclops and Xavier (that kind of shit never worked in the comics, either), and handing Halle Berry the franchise on a silver platter. Was Storm even REMOTELY one of the more interesting things in the last two pictures? Imagine Halle in every scene, with half the movie's dialogue. Yikes. Rushing production to meet a release date, putting your tentpole franchise up against Superman out of spite, and undermining the work of creative people for greed/money sounds like a sure way to run the ship aground. Cooler/smarter heads need to get involved in this - that's my take. Jesus, if there's even a CHANCE of convincing Singer to come back and grab the reigns of a franchise HE built (with others), by all that is good and holy on this earth - make it so. Superman's just about wrapped, and someone involved needs to have real passion for this material and these characters.

  • June 13, 2005, 7:17 a.m. CST

    Of coarse ill still see it

    by BrainFart

    i havent written it off yet. ive just lowered my expectation so low that ill have to be impressed. prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

  • June 13, 2005, 7:18 a.m. CST

    Game over man.....game over!!!!

    by Big_Bubbaloola

    I know we can overthrow governments with popular revolutions, but can we do the same with Studio Commitees??? As someone said on another X-Men TB: The series has offically jumped the shark!!

  • June 13, 2005, 7:24 a.m. CST

    DEVELOPMENT!

    by Mr Chuff

    If any film ever needed to be PUT in Development Hell its this one.... jesus.

  • June 13, 2005, 7:27 a.m. CST

    by BrainFart

    exactly we could be like an army of monkeys with typewritters. who work for free. Cringe-Free-Productions.

  • June 13, 2005, 7:28 a.m. CST

    McWeeney, wtf?

    by BurlIvesLeftNut

    Anyone who reads this article is going to be able to figure out who the second death is without ANY COGNITIVE SKILLS AT ALL! Derrrrrr. You're smarter than that, Drew. Or at least I thought you were.

  • June 13, 2005, 7:30 a.m. CST

    scratch that

    by BrainFart

    opps pushed enter. sorry for the jibberish post

  • June 13, 2005, 7:33 a.m. CST

    No mention of Nightcrawler

    by Gheorghe Zamfir

    Wonder if they forget about his character, or just don't want too many blue guys.

  • June 13, 2005, 7:44 a.m. CST

    There won't be a problem with too many blue mutants.

    by Pops Freshemeyer

    Obviously Mystique dies. Sounds like the movie will be comeplte shit. Oh well, there's still time and maybe Rothman will die too...

  • June 13, 2005, 7:55 a.m. CST

    Shouldnt this news bump the USA up to amber alert

    by BrainFart

    much scarier than anthrax if you ask me

  • June 13, 2005, 7:58 a.m. CST

    Of course, the biggest problem with this...

    by Celicynd

    As a comic fan, how the *beep* are you going to stop Dark Phoenix without Cyclops and Professor X??

  • June 13, 2005, 8:03 a.m. CST

    Whats wrong with having a Super Villan(s)?

    by liljuniorbrown

    It worked for Spiderman,and even the first Xmen movie.From what i've heard about the Superman movie there really isn't and established mega big super villan there either,just Lex Luther using a plan to wipe out Supes.Maybe i'm wrong but i would love to see an Xmen film with the Xmen banding together for an all out war against the Centinals or Mr.Sinister and some of the Brotherhood members or even some kind of Alien threat from the comics. Any fan will tell you the best part of the two movies combined so far was Wolverine leading an all out brawl at the school.It showcased how badass he really can be,and Fox shouldn't kid themselves he's the star of that series. I say start that script from scratch and build one around Professor X having to rally an Xmen army to defeat Magneto and the Brotherhood who have hijacked the big ass robotic Centinals from the goverment and are using them to wipe out the humans.That would be a blockbuster money making flick to rival Star wars and The Matrix movies. The talkback that said the tide is turning is right,Batman Begins is going to start a serious rally and if Synger gets Superman right then Spiderman 3 will be Marvels only hope.

  • June 13, 2005, 8:38 a.m. CST

    I FUCKING HATE HOLLYWOOD

    by RIVERO

    I am going to wage my own personal jihad on Rothman and will not rest until I see the streets flooded with the blood of him and his children.

  • June 13, 2005, 8:45 a.m. CST

    Cyclops was one of the best characters in the first movie

    by jonabbey

    That scene where Jean is going into Cerebro, and Scott runs down the hall towards camera, panic in his heart as the door closes in front of him? That one moment brought the look and characterization of the Claremont/Byrne years to the screen better than anything else in the first movie, and damn near as good as the interaction between Wolvie and Iceman in the school as the military attacks in the second. The whole Phoenix saga was set up as an agonizing experience of love and loss for Scott in the comics, and waxing him in her reveal is such a departure that they had better be planning on paying the story's bills with an entirely different outcome. No fair saving Jean this time if Scott's already dead and gone, y'all.

  • June 13, 2005, 8:50 a.m. CST

    Yes, yes! Piss off Jackman!

    by cutest_of_borg

    He can cast aside this Wolverine business and go straight into The Dark Tower miniseries. JACKMAN IS ROLAND.

  • June 13, 2005, 8:52 a.m. CST

    I feel weird.

    by Recognizer

    I feel weird because this reads exactly like a Claremont or Whedon X-Men story. The "demutantizer serum" is a front-and-centre plot point in Whedon's "Gifted" story. Prof X and Cyclops have both been killed and re-killed and brought back and tickled and re-killed again. ("Mutant heaven has a revolving door" and that applies triply where Phoenix is concerned.) Not that I think they need to come back -- just that the story tends to go on fine without them. And basically this looks pretty okay; I'd watch it. I'd buy it on DVD. It's a ballsy and fairly well-informed take on the X-Men, and there's no fucking Shi'ar nonsense in it either.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:02 a.m. CST

    So Fox is ruining another franchise? Say it isn't so!

    by moviemaniac-7

    Michael Moore (was it him?) once said that: "... the golden era movie execs, bastards as they might have been, were there for one thing: Making movies." Nowadays it's all bullshit to make as much money. If a movie doesn't recoup it's complete budget within a week (including marketing), it's written off. Rothman obviously acts like a retard who has absolutely no idea why he is in this business (guy could be a car salesman - as long as it makes money). I love the first two movies, but somehow I hope that this movie and every single big-budget-made-for-a-release-date movie sinks like the fucking Titanic. I hope that every executive too stupid to write his or her own name gets kicked on the street and gets run over by a bus. And that people who LOVE movies get back in those positions, cause the crap that Hollywood has been shitting out the past 10 years is unbelievable. And franchises that do well (X-Men for instance) get fucked in the ass by a cocksucking money man like Tom "Watch me fuck the geeks over" Rothman. May he rot(h) in hell.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:04 a.m. CST

    Ugh.... cubed.

    by Tarc

    If this is the final version - and we have some indication that this is NOT the final version - then I am *appalled* and *disgusted*. To be honest, you probably can;t find a bigger X-men movieverse fan, and I have no real problem with doing something new with the series or even something earthshaking IF IT WORKS. But his sounds like a rolling train wreck, and if this is what we're going to get... count me (and the hunbered of $$$ that I'd likely spend) out.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:05 a.m. CST

    Scientology

    by The Colonel

    Mutants, movies. Reminds me of thetans, Scientology and Tom Cruise!------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.intrepidmedia.com/column.asp?id=2215

  • June 13, 2005, 9:06 a.m. CST

    That review...

    by monkey tamer

    ...was the best review I've ever read on about 2/3 of a rough draft of a script, that the writer has said in interviews has been reworked, and will probably continue to change until the day of shooting. This may be the overall tone of the script and some of the pieces may be in place, but until you know more about how this thing ends, there is no way anyone can say this will 100% suck. Sounds like it has good character moments/dialogue and some good action set-ups. As far as the mutant vs. humans, mutant cures, etc. have you read the X-men? That is want the comic is about 99% of the time. Need more info. this review tells me nothing.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:12 a.m. CST

    Do movie executives do their own dentistry? No. Do you know wh

    by HypeEndsHere

    Because they pay people who are trained in the field to handle it. Let the filmmaker make the film and you do whatever the fuck it is that you do, Armani.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:12 a.m. CST

    Arad/Rothman

    by Procrustean

    I thought Avi was to blame but now Im told this Rothman guy is the villian. Cant MArvel or Avi do anything? Anything at all? It looks like all MArvel has left is Spiderman now that Xmen is screwed. FF is doomed and that was their last jewel after the Hulk and DD. Well, maybe Cap Thor and Iron Man will have hope for us. Bring on the Avengers.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:12 a.m. CST

    Bring Back Singer, Desanto, and Team

    by BringBack_Singer

    Fox, Marvel, so what is right for one of your top brands. You are already stumbling with FF, Manthing, Blade III. Protect the brand. Continue with Rami with Spider-man, and kiss and make up with Bryan Singer and Team. Spiderman II gave me hope to the vision of Marvel movies, while Blade III and Manthing sh With great strenght comes great responsibilty. Great responsibity to protect and nurture your 3o year old characters. Marvel needs a Peter Jackson that will protect the property. But see my next post, as AICN is all to blame.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:19 a.m. CST

    The Avengers ain't happening.

    by HypeEndsHere

    not when Cap, Thor, and Iron Man can each have their own film. (not that the first two could ever get made)

  • June 13, 2005, 9:20 a.m. CST

    AICN is to blame too

    by BringBack_Singer

    It is a hard pill to swallow, but AICN is to blame for this situation. If McWeenie hadnt cornholed JJ Abrams script and vision for Superman, maybe wouldnt have been kicked off it -- and Bryan would still be playing in Marvel's sandbox. Of course, I'm Super-Psyked to see Super-Man with Bryan at the helm. I'm a diehard Marvel fan, and sadly, I'm totally gearing up for Batman and Superman, while Marvel movies are leaving me cold. Seriously, I never imagined I'd say this, but I watched the FF trailer and said "looks like a Netflix" renter. Not ever a cheap purchase at Best Buy -- that thing is going on my Netflix list. Feel the buzz, Marvel. Your movie reign is over, expect for Spiderman III.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:22 a.m. CST

    Lastly, fire Ratner

    by BringBack_Singer

    Wow, are you guys drunk? That hack? Don't let that perv in our sandbox.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:30 a.m. CST

    die rothman die

    by reeeeeds

    THANK YOU!! Thank you for telling us the fans the truth about the insides of film industry, in this case X-Men. That's why I fell in love with AICN in the first place.... at last a site tha't didn't suck the studios and exec's cocks and told things as they were, no punchs barreled. I was beginning to feel AICN had lost some of its energy and brashness... but your article about Rothman... yeah, come on man, keep on telling us the truth!!!! Let the others sites and magazines prostitute themselves for peanuts. AICN rules again!!And I hope bryan singers kicks Rothman's ass next year! Fuckin bastard!!

  • June 13, 2005, 9:40 a.m. CST

    This just sounds like lazy writing...

    by Childe Roland

    ...to me. "The fans are clamoring for the Dark Phoenix storyline. Okay, we'll bring her back bad. How bad? She can kill off her boyfriend in her first scene. We've never really figured out how to write his character anyway. But we need something for the rest of the team to be doing while this is going on. How about another scheme to change all of mutantkind into something else at once? Sure. That'll work. Weren;t we going to use that big metal guy more in this one? Fuck it. Can't really figure out where he'd fit. We do have that other big guy... you know... the one who's Professor X's step brother. Maybe we should just make him a thug and kill of Professor X to make the story simpler. We already have at least two plot threads going. Oh... and Halle Berry wants more to do. Let's give her some sex scenes. She's good at those. Didn't she win an oscar for one of those? That'll make her happy. And let's let Jackman see her naked. Maybe that'll shut him up with all his whining about what the way we've neutered his character (except that, being neutered, he won't really know what to do with a naked Halle Berry)." Of course this is just speculation basd on someone else's reaction to a draft of a script (and some of what this reviewer says leads me to believe he and I have very different ideas about what the characters should and shouldn't be doing), so I can't say I know the movie will suck. I'll wait for a couple of reviews of the finished film... preferably spoiler heavy... before I make up my mind whether I should completely ignore this movie or not.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Rothman meet Schumacher.

    by BranMakMorn

    Thanks for letting everyone know who is responsible for killing the X-MEN franchise. Marvel better get their act together fast, DC finally figured out where they went wrong.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:42 a.m. CST

    This is why I read Aicn.

    by metalpaul

    You know, you kind of wonder how such incompetant boobs get in the positions of power that they are in...Oh yeah, they are chasing money and all of the non-sense involved, not film. I really hope your article is read by the high up mucky-mucks and is duly noted. As has been shown, time and time again, all a great film needs is someone to put their heart into it. Viva la indie!

  • June 13, 2005, 9:45 a.m. CST

    sounds good to me

    by irishfella

    I don't know what all the fuss is about.this sounds like the best one yet. The addition of such characters as Gambit, Angel, and Juggernaut can only move the franchise forward and wolvie screwing storm doesn't sound too OTT either. oh, and Frasier as Beast... genius.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:47 a.m. CST

    Well, fucking Jessica Harper was always MY dream job.

    by cookylamoo

    And dreaming of doing it in my youth is what made ME a geek. Even after seeing her old and withered in Minority Report, I still want her.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:48 a.m. CST

    Kurt Vagner AWOL?

    by Flansy

    is Nightcrawler not in this??

  • June 13, 2005, 9:49 a.m. CST

    Rothman/ID5

    by Flansy

    and if this bastardos actually managed to keep an ID4 sequel from getting greenlit, the man is my fucking hero ;)

  • June 13, 2005, 9:55 a.m. CST

    This piece on Xmen 3 brought back - however briefly - the golden

    by Spacesheik

    we need more pieces like this - inside stuff on geek franchises - and less "filler" stuff like CROW 'direct to video' IV reviews and brief *very general* movie reviews by studio plants.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:56 a.m. CST

    wow...

    by mikkimouse

    i didn't think it was possible for my expectations for this film to get any lower. unless x3 debuts to RAVE reviews and fantastic word of mouth, i'm waiting till it's at the dollar theater on 50-cent tuesday nights.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:57 a.m. CST

    Darthben said it

    by ejcarter9

    Can't improve on it at all, except to reiterate what I've said in the past... Wait, and let Singer come back to do it right. Unfortunately, the decisions are made solely based on whether someone will get back only 24 million instead of 25 million.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Columns like these are the reason I love this site! Mori, you d

    by Lance Rock

  • June 13, 2005, 10:03 a.m. CST

    Re-Hashed plot is bad enough, but...

    by CatVutt

    Isn't the bit with Hank sneaking in to get sample of the serum a flat-out scene-lift from Whedon's Astonishing run?

  • June 13, 2005, 10:10 a.m. CST

    This may suck, but we will get 'Beast Hands' on the toy

    by Big Bad Clone

    Or maybe some Angel wings! No one cares about some cripple guy and playing up Halle's sexiness is what gets comic fans into theaters. This will be a masterpiece....of ass. Frankly, it doesn't sound so bad except the "cure" shit. Have sentinals get they're asses kicked by Pheonix and Wolvie and we won't have any problems...except a dead Professor X.

  • June 13, 2005, 10:14 a.m. CST

    X3 should practically write itself, yet their giving us this?

    by Beotaimh

    Thank heavens that "Batman Begins" is almost upon us and that it is actually good. If "Spider-Man" (which I love) happened to be the only good superhero movie franchise out there, this would be a sad, sad world. What the crap is Rothman and Fox thinking? Urgh. This is a horrible idea. It doesn't really seem true to the spirit (much less storylines) of the X-Men comics. Fox already has two rather lame superhero franchises ("Daredevil" and "Elektra") due to trying to rush things and studio interference, with a potential third lame franchise opening in less than a month ("Fantastic Four"). The one good one that they have, and they want to ruin it? In a perfect world, "X3" would be easy. Following the events of "X2", anti-mutant sentiment is at an all time high. Following the massacre of a group of mutant sewer dwellers (the Morlocks) Magneto creates a mutant safe haven in space - Asteroid M. Of course, the governments of the world begin freaking out over this pontentially hostile space base and so the funding for the Sentinal project falls into place. Meanwhile, following the death of Jean Grey, Cyclops takes a leave of absence. With two teachers from the school gone, Xavier calls in former X-Men Beast and Angel to replace them. Eventually, Angel is taken captive by the Brotherhood of Mutants onboard Asteroid M and Cyclops rejoins the X-Men who mount a rescue mission. But while the X-Men are rescuing him, the Asteroid is attacked by the Sentinals, and the X-Men are forced to fight alongside Magneto and the Brotherhood while evacuating as many mutants as possible. When the X-Men themselves leave, their ship is damaged, and they plummet towards earth. Oddly enough, their ship is drawn towards Alkali Lake and they are rescued by a fiery bird, in the center of which is Jean Grey. Before they can quite figure out what is going, Jean/Phoenix fly off. The end. Piece of cake. I believe that would make for a wonderful follow-up to the flicks, remaining true to the spirit of the comics and the previous movies. If only studio execs had brains, that's what we'd be getting and not what's being planned. But it's okay. We're still going to have Batman and Spider-Man. It's just too bad, as X-Men is one of the great comics too. All good things must come to an end, I guess.

  • June 13, 2005, 10:22 a.m. CST

    Medical plotlines make baby Jesus cry

    by ejcarter9

    and are boring as shit. I was hoping that we would never have to suffer through an X-Men movie with the Legacy Virus as the main plot (or even subplot) but this whole de-mutantizing thing seems like a close second to me. Of course genetics has played a major role in the first two, so what do I know?

  • June 13, 2005, 10:24 a.m. CST

    poor patrick stewart he always gets written out of the picture t

    by Spacesheik

  • June 13, 2005, 10:27 a.m. CST

    Halle Berry doesn't deserve expanded role.

    by stlfilmwire

    Have her written out of the script and then call her next movie... once she realizes that she should be grateful to be in it.

  • June 13, 2005, 10:28 a.m. CST

    I don't believe it.

    by Mooly

    Sorry, but Wolverine was the star of the first two movies for the exact same reason he was star of the comics. And with the inevitable Wolverine movie in the future, there is no way Wolverine is forgotten about in X3, or off hiding in the background. NOt even Fox is stupid enough to take their money making, most loved, and best recognized character and toss him into the background like that.

  • June 13, 2005, 10:35 a.m. CST

    Beotaimh is Singer?

    by JaeZion

    Beotaimh sounds like he should write the script, or maybe he already did. Dougherty or Harris, maybe? Maybe all three of them are laughing their asses of now, because after all this time it's now finally sinking in how much these three brought to the project. If AICN IS responsible for Abrams getting sacked for "Returns", Harry had better start sending links to this talkback to Rothman all day. Kill Cyclops? To whom did this sound like a good idea?

  • June 13, 2005, 10:41 a.m. CST

    Schumacher 'em

    by Eric Kurth

    So I was reading this article on Batman Begins http://tinyurl.com/av2m3 and I found this bit interesting: "In interviews after the Batman & Robin fiasco, Schumacher blamed an "unpoliced Internet" and "small cult" of diehards for turning public opinion against his movie. A rift formed between the fans and the filmmakers." This is what I hope will happen if this script review is true. Seriously, all of these ideas are stupid. There is no indication that they care about continuing character arcs.

  • June 13, 2005, 10:41 a.m. CST

    M.I.A.....

    by sigviscious

    Please say I misread the article, but where was Colossus and Nightcrawler? How can they have Juggernaut and not expand on Colossus as a character? WTF... PLUS: if Halle hates her role as Storm and the X-Men franchise in general, PLEASE REPLACE HER WITH IMAN. Iman is Storm, hands down.

  • June 13, 2005, 10:42 a.m. CST

    Never fear, Prof X will be back in X-Men 4: The Search for X

    by TheBaxter

    He'll transfer his katra to Wolverine, and then he'll be resurrected in the next movie as a baby (still played by Patrick Stewart, shrunk down to infant-size with CGI).

  • June 13, 2005, 10:43 a.m. CST

    P.S.

    by JaeZion

    Didn't she just get done ruining what COULD have been a good film last year? WB banked on young, urban women paying to go see Halle Berry be all "street" and flirt with Ben Bratt, when they could have had Ashley Judd being Selena Kyle which could have been incorporated into "Begins 2" without wasting more time with exposition. Just because Halle has an Oscar, why do studios kepp allowing her to feel entitled to ruin pictures? Now Angela Bassett would be a Storm that we all could believe as leader of the X-men.

  • June 13, 2005, 10:45 a.m. CST

    um...crap?

    by Greenleaf1

    I swear to god if the movie goes into theatres closely resembling this script in any way, I'll be pissed. A de-mutant serum??? Angel's father as the main villain??? I wanna hear more about Wolverine's history, Gambit, Juggernaut, and CYCLOPS. He may not be my favorite character, but that scene sounds like it was written in fan fiction....ridiculously crappy fan fiction. Cyclops dies as soon as Jean Grey returns??? That doesn't make any sense!! The whole point of her return would be the great thing for Scott, and it wouldn't make any sense after they reunite to kill him. It'd be a LOT cooler if Jean actually did stop the lasers in Cyclops's eyes and he lived, showing her new power. The fact that she still can't control her powers even after becoming Phoenix just doesn't make any sense.

  • June 13, 2005, 10:46 a.m. CST

    Superman is gonna beat X-men into the ground come 2006

    by UltimaRex

    Good.

  • June 13, 2005, 10:48 a.m. CST

    Actually, Hank/Beast Did a "Break in at Brand" Bit in Avengers 1

    by hipcheck13

    ...when Hank Pym couldn't stop growing due to a microbe in his blood stream. Hank stole some serum out of the Brand labs and modified it to stop Hank's growing. Reason I remembered it (besides the fact that having Beast as an Avenger was a kick, and Steve Englehart was the best writer Marvel had at the time) was Beast talking about his "Break in at Brand bit." Nice alliteration.

  • June 13, 2005, 10:55 a.m. CST

    And about killing Scott.

    by CatVutt

    That, I don't have an issue with. Because frankly, the most problematic thing I saw with a Dark Phoenix storyline was the complete and total lack of any realistic chemistry between Scott/Jean in the films. This resolves that quite nicely, actually. She's back, he's ashes. Works for me. The rest doesn't sound so promising, though.

  • June 13, 2005, 10:59 a.m. CST

    Please Fox, NOOOOO!!!!

    by Nachokoolaid

    Man, that Rothman sounds like a dick. He needs to be gone, quickly. But since that won't happen, perhaps we could petition Fox to NOT MAKE THIS TRIPE! That script sounds terrible. The angel and Beat stuff sounded ok, at best. Wolvie was already pussified somewhat in the last two films (only good scenes are the very first one in part one, and the mansion rampage, taking out the spec ops guys). But that's about it. nothing else in this script jives with the other films. Where's the Iceman vs. Pyro? Why is Wolvie taking a back seat? Actually, I don't mind that so much, but don't make him a puss. Make him take a back seat but kick ass too. Why kill Prof X and Magneto. They are the two best characters. You want to kill someone? How about Storm? All Berry ever did was bitch anyway. Please don't do this, Fox. Please. Fans will be outraged, and it wil kill a franchise that honestly could have better legs than the Bond films. We know you read these Fox people. Do the right thing.

  • June 13, 2005, 11:05 a.m. CST

    Lets Make Rothmans Life Hell!!!

    by Kayfabe

    that sounds like the worst possible script they could go with. what is this rothman fool thinking? This sounds as bad as AvsP was. please FOX,wait..dont rush it,get Singer back and let him fix this horrible script. lets combine our efforts and make this guys life hell. give us some emails and lets sink this turd before it has a chance to go into production...

  • June 13, 2005, 11:09 a.m. CST

    Don't Touch Silver Surfer

    by docfalken

    ... until the X-house gets cleaned up.

  • June 13, 2005, 11:11 a.m. CST

    What will it take...

    by Trancer

    for Fox to realize that they have everything to gain and nothing to lose by taking a deep breath, stepping back, and getting this right? I mean, if they really put their minds to it, and cut a few corners here and there, I'm sure they could have X3 out by this Labor Day. (Maybe I shouldn't give them any ideas...)

  • June 13, 2005, 11:12 a.m. CST

    Why, why, why, why!

    by Jedi52

    Why, Rothman why? Your sole purpose for fox is to make M.O.N.E.Y not to be a creative consultant, director, screenwriter, all your supposed to do is sign the checks and smile. I dont give a shit if you dont like the movie, I dont give a shit if your pride is hurt because the franchise was still the most successful property you have even when you tried to derail it. Its not up to you. Your a no talent suit so leave the creative descions to the artist ok. As for Arad, Quesada, and Marvel for you guys to even let a piece of shit script like this to have anything to do with your #1 property is sickening. WAKE UP DAMMIT! Would Jean Grey ever kill Cyclops? Another demuntant plot device, how many character contradictions are you going to allow to happen to your creations? Rothman be a man and admit you fucked up put X3 back into pre-production. And if you have the balls ask Singer to come back, if not grab a director who can assemble a talented team of writers to do this franchise justice. Marvel stockholders get rid of Arad for you to allow crap like this to happen to your #1 commodity is idiocy and to allow this man to continue his handlings of your property is suicide. Both you stockholders from Fox and Marvel need to look yourselves in the mirror and get a reality check.

  • Check it out here: http://www.superherohype.com/news.php?id=3116

  • June 13, 2005, 11:19 a.m. CST

    ..Or maybe the X-Men versus...

    by Kid Z

    ... the 50-Centinals (Giant gangsta-rappin'robots!). Jesus... where do some people learn to spell?

  • June 13, 2005, 11:20 a.m. CST

    James Marsden

    by AshFett

    I think James Marsden is quite good as Cyclops. I think he has an incredibly tough role because he's physically a pretty boy and he's playing a stick in the mud character... It's like bait for us geek fanboys to attack him: "Handsome, boring person!" The thing is, Marsden himself is really funny and personable (saw him speak last year at Wizard World and he was great) and I remember seeing Disturbing Behavior and going in thinking whoever this lead guy is, I bet he sucks cause he's such a pretty boy... only to realize that amongst a horrible movie, he actually gave a nice performance and had talent. And I thought his portrayal of Scott in the first X-Men movie was perfect; acting overly superior to Wolverine, while clearly loving and respecting Jean and Xavier. The whole back and forth between Cyclops and Wolverine about "my girl" was one of the big moments in the movie for me in that I truly felt I was seeing the characters from the comic come to life. He was then given almost nothing to do in the sequel, which I do understand, because his character is far less dynamic then someone like Wolverine and there are a million characters and only so much screen time... but it's a shame to hear that not only does he die in this movie, he dies early on and in such a ho-hum way. Bah.

  • June 13, 2005, 11:24 a.m. CST

    I knew there'd be a couple a ID4 haters...

    by iamnicksaicnsn

    What the hell was wrong with ID4? It was a cool, fun movie, and without it, big budget blockbuster sci-fi movies might not have gotten as much support. Did it need a sequel? Not necessarily. -------------------------------BUT how can they kill Patrick Stewart!!! THE WORLD NEEDS MORE PATRICK STEWART!!! HE WAS SO GOOD IN THE FIRST TWO!!! ESPECIALLY X2!!! DAMN YOU, ROTHMAN!!! DAMN YOU TO HELL!!!

  • June 13, 2005, 11:26 a.m. CST

    Fuck Hollywood, it's time the TALKBACKERS TOOK CONTROL

    by Funkymonkey

    I've just had a brainwave and i want to know what you guys think. ____________________________Now that Star Wars is over and most of the major comic book franchises have been mined, it's time for something new. Something REALLY new. Otherwise, the golden age of Geekdom which we have all enjoyed will come grinding to a halt. Reading through the above tragedy, it struck me that Hollywood is the spawn of the devil and wouldn't recognise a good idea if one came up and stroked it on the nipple. Furthermore, it occured to me that literally THOUSANDS of movie fans visit this website on a near dayly basis and very many of them are capable of writing extremely funny and creative talkbacks. So here is what we do . . . . (and forgive me if this is a very old, and very shit idea)____________________________ We write our own movie. All of us. Together!__________________________ Harry puts up a regular banner on the site and talkbackers throw ideas around. But, and this is CRITICAL, it needs to be organised in such a way that it doesn't turn into an incoherent slaggin match. I propose that the project proceeds along such lines as the following: 1. The film we are trying to write is broken down into sections. With the first of our tasks being a synopsis, followed by a scene chronology, followed by the scenes themselves. Each task should be given a deadline of a month or so._______________________________ 2. Example: Lets say we are attempting to come up with a synopsis. Talkbackers simply post their ideas and discuss them. At the end of each week Harry puts up a vote with a list of the 20 best synopses and we all decide which will win. After a month, we have a big vote to select one from all the previous winners. ____________________________ 3. The synopsis talkback goes into the archives and is linked in the next task page, let's say, "scene 1". ______________________________ 4. To keep the ball rolling, Harry could award cool prizes to the winner of each months task. ______________________________ 5. After a year or two, we will have the script for a brilliant film, not to mention the great memories and the satisfaction of being part of something revolutionary. You know, you could just write a single line and it might end up being incorporated. Just think about it, we could revolutionise the film industry. Let the people decide what they watch. Fuck Hollywood. And you know what, even if it did work, and we did produce a script, and either no one picked it up or our ideas were stolen, or whatever, fuck it, it would still have been cool. And we might just get to see a film that we have always wanted to see, the film that plays in our own heads. The film that we wish many Hollywood films ought to have been. ________________________________ What d'ya reckon?

  • June 13, 2005, 11:27 a.m. CST

    The "Wolverine" movie ...

    by Uga

    ... is the reason Jackman is in the background for "X3." They want to save his storyline for that.

  • June 13, 2005, 11:28 a.m. CST

    I saw the Rothman interview in that Movie Reporter clip above an

    by Spacesheik

    says all the right things, has enthusiasm, ---- strikes me as strong willed type of movie exec but he seems like a micromanager, acts like a geek "weve got you covered" and "have you seen me at the saturn awards? its all about the script." This guy is no pushover.

  • June 13, 2005, 11:28 a.m. CST

    Here's a *bad* idea...

    by mbeemer

    As I read spectrebeeyatch's post ("SPOILER: I'd put my money on Grey killing ProfX and Magneto at the same time by crushing their minds or something, which would be really stupid but funny to watch."), I had an OH-SHIT!! moment. What if Xavier's mind leaps into Magneto's body at the last moment to avoid distruction, a la "Scanners"? (Not saying it's a good idea, just the kind of thing I wouldn't put past the suits.)

  • June 13, 2005, 11:30 a.m. CST

    The Villain is morons who pay to see garbage.

    by 2ndprize

    storm can be recast and noone would care. halle is not a fanboy draw. most have animosity toward her even, no reason to give in to her demsnds...... there is already setup with pyro, nightcrawler and colossuss even, why add more new ones when all on screen havent even been fully used???? this is stupid..lot of you wanna blame rothman and fox, but in all reality, it is proven that you people will pay for movies that are crap. stop giving money to these idiots and maybe we can see good work again.... catwoman and elektra bombed, keep it up, make FF bomb, and maybe they save xmen3. speak with your money at the box office, not on talkbacks..

  • June 13, 2005, 11:38 a.m. CST

    Rothman finds a cure for midi-chlorians

    by Press Lenox

    Going forward with this sorry ass excuse for a script is a wretched dog fuck waiting to happen!

  • June 13, 2005, 11:44 a.m. CST

    Uga..the "Wolverine" movie.

    by Mooly

    If you want to make a spin-off movie, you don't make your future lead boring or unimportant. You put him up front and make him even MORE entertaining so the fans are clamoring for a Wolverine stand alone. What you suggest is like putting Angel in the background and making him a less integral character to buffy because you don't want to ruin the future Angel. Or by writing off Frasier in Cheers because you don't want to take away from his own show. You want people to be MORE in love with the character for a future movie to suceed...not less. Plus, any stand alone Wolvering movie woulnd't realte in any way to the X-Men franchise. Wolverines X-Men activities have nothing to do with the probable "Weapon X" or "Silver Fox Cabin" storyline that will be the next movie.

  • June 13, 2005, 11:44 a.m. CST

    IF IT ISNT GOOD

    by Dmann

    I WONT SEE IT! Are you reading this FOX? I WILL NOT GIVE YOU MY MONEY! I didnt see ELEKTRA until some other poor sap showed me a screener at his video store. I wouldnt pay for that dreck. I wont see MAN THING, I wont see BAD MOVIES just because you dickweeds put a fucking MARVEL logo on them. I WILL NOT BUY THE DVD, I WILL NOT RENT THE DVD, I WILL NOT PAY YOU TO SEE ANY MORE CRAP. Am I being clear. NO MONEY. I work my ass off to get money, everyone I know works their asses off to get money, and if you make CRAP we WILL NOT GIVE IT TO YOU! NO X3 MONEY, NO FANTASTIC FOUR MONEY. ARE WE CLEAR?

  • June 13, 2005, 11:46 a.m. CST

    Another T3 disaster?

    by LabattsBleu

    man...this is sounding like bad news...I make the T3 comparison because many thought it was a good film: it was not. It was "competent" and didn't do anything to advance the mythos of the terminator franchise. The obvious clue the studio wasn't happy is that the cast will not be back and neither will Mostow... X3 is definitely headed into that danger zone based on the recent scuttlebutt raised here. The X-Men have a loyal following, but as a studio, you can't just mail it in either...DVD sales are arguably more important than boxoffice nowadays, so a film needs to be solid in order for people to buy it. i wonder how many of the T3 supporters bought that DVD?

  • June 13, 2005, 11:51 a.m. CST

    Funky Monkey's Talkback "in control"

    by JaeZion

    How about just a talkback where we just hammer out a script? Agree on things like Iceman vs. Pyro, NOT killing Cyclops, Magnus needing to be more central, SENTINELS!!!, HUGE Danger Room sequence, etc. We vote, Harry edits, then we submit it to Fox as an EXAMPLE of how much better it could be done. Harry's got enough to do without finding extra cash to hand out lame-ass weekly prizes. Are we serious X-Fans, or a bunch of nerds that deserve to be short-changed and second-guessed? Being thought of as American Idol-like fans that sit around on the couch stroking our action figures is what makes absolute morons like Rothman think they can get away with shit like this. AICN is proving with every keystroke we all make that not only is this "treatment" we've read total crap the likes of which true X-fans will never respond to, but that there are many other than Simon Kinberg who could make a serious pass at this. And why not kill of Storm? Answer: she needs the money. The movies Halle wants to do aren't going to be watched by anyone other than Oprah's book club, and she can't make the tens of millions she figures her little gold statue entitle her to. She doesn't like us, we don't like her, so she needs to go away.

  • June 13, 2005, 11:56 a.m. CST

    Fox, take your pick...

    by Nachokoolaid

    Fox guys, read these two ideas, and get your script doctors going fast, and see what you come up with. Anything less is unacceptable. Following the events of "X2", anti-mutant sentiment is at an all time high. Following the massacre of a group of mutant sewer dwellers (the Morlocks) Magneto creates a mutant safe haven in space - Asteroid M. Of course, the governments of the world begin freaking out over this pontentially hostile space base and so the funding for the Sentinal project falls into place. Meanwhile, following the death of Jean Grey, Cyclops takes a leave of absence. With two teachers from the school gone, Xavier calls in former X-Men Beast and Angel to replace them. Eventually, Angel is taken captive by the Brotherhood of Mutants onboard Asteroid M and Cyclops rejoins the X-Men who mount a rescue mission. But while the X-Men are rescuing him, the Asteroid is attacked by the Sentinals, and the X-Men are forced to fight alongside Magneto and the Brotherhood while evacuating as many mutants as possible. When the X-Men themselves leave, their ship is damaged, and they plummet towards earth. Oddly enough, their ship is drawn towards Alkali Lake and they are rescued by a fiery bird, in the center of which is Jean Grey. Before they can quite figure out what is going, Jean/Phoenix fly off. The end. Piece of cake. Or, something like this... Here's my theory: Cyke and the Professor aren't killed. They are "absorbed" into Jean's mind. You know that Marvel characters can't die. The movie will play out very close to the shooting script, but Brett Ratner will do what he can as director in order to make it work and bring it up to th elevel of the previous films. Not saying he is a genius by any means, but he is competant. Watch Red Dragon... his camera angles, use of shadow and light and direction of the actors is stupendous. Now, I have a feeling X4 will deal with Leech's "syrum" mutating into the Legacy Virus. Mystique will become infected with it and not only return to her mutant form, but will also be a tragic character due to the violent nature of the disease. Jean's power surge will be addressed. Eitehr all of that, or we will finally have an intro into Mr. Sinister, who has watched over Scott Summers his entire life and has several "clones" of him from DNA gathered over the years. Professor X is strong enough to enter Jean's mind during their fight, but Cyke may need to be reborn, as it were. Jean will become very powerful and begin going crazy, forcing the President and Department of Homeland Security to create the Sentinels to take her down. After being unsuccessful, they are self reprogrammed to destroy all mutants as a safeguard to their survival.

  • June 13, 2005, 11:57 a.m. CST

    About Devlin and Emmerich

    by Ribbons

    First of all, 'The Patriot' made about $200 million. If Rothman is genuinely concerned with the bottom line, this decision to chase Emmerich away from Fox looks less like heroism and more like stupidity. Second of all, his reasons for chasing them away were not "because 'ID4' was a mediocre movie and he didn't want mediocre movies to be made anymore." Yeah fuckin' right. It was because he was a cheapskate who wanted them around but for much less money than they'd earned. Stop with the sarcasm, you tools. Rothman is the enemy here, not Moriarty.

  • June 13, 2005, 11:57 a.m. CST

    Holy Shit, that's TERRIBLE!

    by theoneofblood

    Wha... What the fuck is this shit?! Jean-Gray KILLS CYCLOPS??!?! Some bullshit virus/serum subplot?! No Colossus?!?! FUCK HOLLYWOOD! FUCK THEM WITH A ICEPICK TO THE SKULL!

  • June 13, 2005, 11:58 a.m. CST

    On Rothman's ID4 sequel decision

    by moviemaniac-7

    I agree that ID4 is a suckfest. Period. I enjoyed it in the theaters, but that was it. It's pulp. In this TB Rothman is hailed as a hero for not greenlighting ID-uhm-5, I guess. This was not a creative decision. He just wanted the same, but cheaper and Emmerich and Devlin (with that little bit of artistic integrity left) refused - to rehash the first again. And then Rothman pulled the plug. Rothman is hailed by some Talkbackers as a hero for being the imcompetent, cocksucking, worthless waste of molecules that he is. __________________________________ I must confess on the other hand that the X3 script has some nice ideas, but it's obviously a first draft. There needs a lot of rewriting to be done over a whole year by two or three competent screenwriters. But with shooting starting in two months or so and Ratner at the helm... Not to mention that Beast has to be CG'd completely in less than 9 months! Bitch about Lucas what you want, but at least he took the time for post production. As it is, X3 can never be good. Mediocre at best.

  • June 13, 2005, 11:59 a.m. CST

    Vincent Cassell as Gambit

    by JaeZion

    lynxpro desrves credit for best x-men related idea any of us have heard today. Along with Rothman and Kinberg, hopefully Ratner and Donner might come across this talkback, as well.

  • June 13, 2005, 11:59 a.m. CST

    O M F G

    by abysstare

    What a piece of crap. PULL THE PLUG BEFORE IT"S TOO LATE! Let Singer and his team get in there! What is WRONG with you people? Killing Xavier, Magneto, and Cyclops is IDIOTIC. It's a cop out, and it's pathetic. Ugh.. I'd write more but I'm too damn pissed to sound coherent. I'll try to come back when I'm calmer. By the way, for those people that keep thinking, well if an actor isn't going to keep playing a role, they have to get rid of them: Has NOBODY heard of recasting?!? Holy shit. It's not that big of a deal. You're telling me they can have countless actors portray freaking BATMAN, but you can't recast Xavier, Magneto, Cyclops, Storm, etc. if you want to? BULLSHIT. And killing off a character because you as a writer don't know how to make them work? Pathetic. And Storm should be screwing Nightcrawler based on the last film. Keep Wolverine the loner. He gets enough fucking attention. Ugh. I can't think from all this stupidity.

  • June 13, 2005, noon CST

    "Xavier never told you about your father..."

    by fiester

    Can't you see this coming a mile away? Also: the origin of the term "geek" is a mentally deficiant individual from sideshow days who was placed in a pit into which live animals were thrown--usually chickens--the geek would them rip them to shreds with his bare hands and teeth. That's what a geek is. You people who think you're geeks are not geeks: you're nerds.

  • June 13, 2005, 12:04 p.m. CST

    I agree

    by Ribbons

    Wolvie shouldn't be gettin' any from anyone on the team. He's supposed to be sort of a misfit. Granted, Hugh Jackman's tall and hunky, and I guess that has to be recognized, but still... anyways I feel bad for Nightcrawler, since I thought they were trying to plant the seeds of a romance (however asexual) between he and Storm in the last film. Then again, does anyone think that Wolverine and Storm hooking up is genuinely a good idea? It's just another one of those items on the studio's checklist.

  • June 13, 2005, 12:06 p.m. CST

    Semi-Related Question about Singer's SUPERMAN

    by ZombieSolutions

    will Superman have the power to throw a giant cellophane "S" at his opponents like he did in Stuperman deuce? and will said cellophane be, like, really really strong super-cellophane? Shucks and gosh, Jimmy Olsen, I shure hope so. Great Cesars Ghost! Superman is TOTALLY RETARDED.

  • June 13, 2005, 12:07 p.m. CST

    No chance for Singer

    by JaeZion

    Umm, doesn't Brian Singer have a big film with HUGE expectations that he know has to guide through post-production. Let it go. Singer's ship sailed away from the X-3 universe a long time ago.

  • June 13, 2005, 12:07 p.m. CST

    BTW

    by Ribbons

    That introduction of Angel trying to "cut" his wings IS admittedly pretty brilliant. And his escape sounds similarly brilliant. They probably belong in a better story.

  • June 13, 2005, 12:08 p.m. CST

    Rothman can't really lose

    by bigcheckonthat

  • June 13, 2005, 12:15 p.m. CST

    sorry- damn enter key

    by bigcheckonthat

    Rothman can't lose here- All the talk about you're never going to see it- well, guess what- he's proved he doesn't care. You think he's going to halt production becuase people threaten not to see it. I 'm not going to say that is exactly what he wants but this entire move smacks of Rothman screaming told you so. If it fails- He can say he was right all along. It it succeeds then he's lauded a genius for managing to steady the ship after Singer left. BUT, i have to say the script didn't sound that bad. We're talking about a script review of two acts- we don't have a clue what's going to happen in the end. For two acts it sounds a pretty interesting film.

  • June 13, 2005, 12:15 p.m. CST

    hey Fox, FUCK YOU

    by Strabo

    You make this piece of shit film, you can count on NOT receiving my seven bucks. Why in hell would you make this fucking disaster of a script when you can push the movie to 2007 and get Singer back? Fucking morons. If this Rothman cunt was standing in front of me, I'd kick him in the balls.

  • June 13, 2005, 12:15 p.m. CST

    My hopes just dwindled to almost nothing

    by The Heathen

    Beotaimh, pretty cool script idea, actually that is quite excellent imo. Sounds like X2 except Beast is jumping around the White House instead of Nightcrawler. And fuck - fuck this serum shit to high hell. With over 40 years of X-Men stories, you make 3 movies with the same (or close enough) plots? Fuck Rothman, and Berry. Berry won't bring in anybody, like someone said a lot of people are pissed at her for her shit lately. This just confirms Ratner's a tool also. JaeZion thanks for spelling "sentinel" right. Not centinal or sentinal. I respect Vaughn even more now for leaving. Hope Singer fucks Fox hard with Supes (not exactly thrilled with that right now either

  • June 13, 2005, 12:16 p.m. CST

    She kills Xavier and Cyclops?!?

    by -guyinthebackrow

    OMFG!

  • June 13, 2005, 12:17 p.m. CST

    TEN THINGS WRONG WITH THIS MOVIE

    by teddanson37

    1. Halle Berry leading the Xmen. i mean come on, did no one see "catwoman" 2. storm leading the Xmen. i mean COME ON,...Storm...sucks. 3. the rehashing of the plot. guy's son is a mutant so he finds a way to get rid of mutants. 4. warren worthington II as the main villian. with a plethera of villians to chose from in the marvel universe, we get archangle's dad...who i don't ever remember being in the comics much less being a major supervillian. 4 and a half. looking over villians such as sinster, apocalypse, the sentinels, omega red, even some phalanx, brood, or ord action would be better than "old dude with a potion" character. 5. storm has sex with wolvie. i just can't see that happening. when i heard "sex scene" in X3 i was thinking phoenix comes back and bangs wolvie. that would build on the plot from X2. i think rothman forced all the other crap into the movie just so no one would complain about his stupid logam/ororo sex scene. and storm and wolvie hooking up just doesn't work. it's completely wrong for both characters. can't marvel do anything about it? for that matter can't they do anything about any of this crap? and if they can't can't they just remove the marvel logo from the movie all together. 6. killing cyclops. i hate the character cyclops has become in the movies just as much as the next guy, but why must he die? if you just want to get rid of marsden he could very well just leave the team cuz of the loss of jean. just think a few things through. we might need cyclops in X4 or X5...if there is a reason to have on after this crap tree just waiting to blossum. 7. gambit as a cameo. that's a personal view point that i don't have any logic to back up. i like gambit, and if wolvie's gonna be a puss in this movie we need someone to take his place as the team hard ass. 8. having wolvie be a pussy. 'nuff said. 9. rushing this one so it gets out by memorial day. you can't rush crap like this. 10. you can't kill prof X. that's just stupid. in comics it's okay cuz you can bring someone back in a few years and no one says anything. but you can't just bring someone back in a movie sequel (unless you set it up in the original such as they did with phoenix in X2). and i'm not certain that magneto dies, the review seemed unclear. but if you take out prof, you take out those great eric and charles moments, that provide the basis for what these films are about, those are some of the best parts of the movies if you ask me. who will magneto discuss his philosophy with...storm? i don't think so...especially when halle berry is pretending to be storm. so what's the reason for killing prof X? the Fox execs think this will shock the fan base they are indeed right. they are killing someone we care about. prof makes the Xmen...Xmen. and when the dust settles and the credits roll on X3...if prof's dead...who's blood will the hands be on...phoenix? you think we'll get mad a phoenix? yeah right. but when you get down to it, you can kill cyclops, you can kill mags, but if you take out prof X and cyclops, that leaves the team with no vision no purpose. prof didn't just have the dream...he is the dream and when xavier dies the dream dies with him. just read the (original) age of apocalypse storyline. the world falls apart without chuck. i don't have a problem with any of the new characters or the way they appear to be approached. they seem true to the comics. and that guarantees success. i personally don't care about the director, cuz i know if the Xmen are presented as they are in the comics, they will bring in the money and then they'll be talkin X4 in two and half years so they can get it in theaters in three years.

  • June 13, 2005, 12:18 p.m. CST

    So, no Cyclops and Emma Frost in the sequel

    by LordSoth

    Why the hell make another mutant serum when you can have the White Queen and the Hellfire club mind-raping the X-men? That would actually be interesting, instead of old, and stupid. Besides, the White Queen eventually turns good and takes over the academy for Xavier. THAT is somewhat interesting. Another serum just makes this seem like another Re-Animator sequel.

  • June 13, 2005, 12:22 p.m. CST

    teddanson37

    by The Heathen

    Nope, sure didn't.

  • June 13, 2005, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Kinberg says this review is BS

    by crazywill722

    http://www.iesb.net/upcomingfilm/movie060805b.php "So what about the spoilers that Aintitcoolnews posted regarding death of mutants and sex scenes? According to Simon the script that Moriarty was referring to was 4 months old and was actually the first 88 pages of a rough draft. Bottom line is that the script that AICN was referring to is different to the one that is being prepped right now."

  • June 13, 2005, 12:24 p.m. CST

    I'm no hardcore X-Men fan

    by Bob of the Shire

    But the set-up for X3 had me excited. Excited for sentinels, for a big war and the possibility of a truly epic comic book movie. Too bad, this is X-men 2.5.

  • June 13, 2005, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Killing off Professor X?

    by Dannychico

    That sucks.

  • June 13, 2005, 12:36 p.m. CST

    Hmmmmm.....

    by MasterWhedon

    There are a few really cool things up there and there are a few more not so cool. I LOVE Phoenix's reemergence. I kinda HATE that she kills Cyclops so cheaply. I LOVE that Xavier and Mags go to see her (both times). I kinda HATE that Xavier's going to die. Angel's stuff seems great. Beast seems cool. Ripping off film 2 and Astonishing sucks. And where the F-Bomb is Nightcrawler?!

  • June 13, 2005, 12:40 p.m. CST

    Vincent Chase to play Aquaman? This is an outrage?!?!

    by Kevin the Nerd

  • June 13, 2005, 12:42 p.m. CST

    When people talk about how "the script's changed a lot"

    by Ribbons

    That's usually just to shut people up. Goyer told people who weren't fans of his that the 'Batman Begins' script was changed significantly by Christopher Nolan and as more reviews are coming out, that's been proven false. Not that 'Batman Begins' necessarily has anything to apologize for, but my point is that "changes" to the script are greatly exaggerated. Like Moriarty said, expect the basic spine of this story to be intact, ESPECIALLY since Act Three was on lock. What would be the point of spoiling something subject to change?

  • June 13, 2005, 12:42 p.m. CST

    MasterWhedon???

    by JaeZion

    MasterWhedon, if you're not Joss, fess up. If you are: Help Us!!!

  • June 13, 2005, 12:45 p.m. CST

    Hey Fox, FUCK YOU, redux

    by Strabo

    A few more things. You want to kill someone, kill that bitchy no talent whore Halle Berry. No one fucking likes her outside of the insipid suits at Fox. Ohhh, she has an Oscar, WHO FUCKING CARES? You DO have some real acting talent in Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan, and you seem to be making the dumbest decision possible in KILLING one of them. Morons. Wolverine and Storm fucking? HELL NO. Only if he's fucking her with his fucking claws! Fuck I'm saying fuck a lot. That's because after how good X2 was, fucking X3 over like this, FUCKING PISSES ME OFF.

  • June 13, 2005, 12:46 p.m. CST

    Some good points

    by Nachokoolaid

    What worked: Angel being the angsty teen and cutting himself. I liked that actually. The parts with Beast were also good. Referring to Beast as if he's an original X-man, just being separated from the team for the last two films, also VERY good. Angel's escape was also nice. _________________What didn't work? Everything else. And if Gambit isn't a major player, he should not appear at all. Juggernut is not a mutant, he is unstoppable. He is not som thug. If he's there, Colossus must have an expanded role, and they must face off at some point. There should be no sex, at all. That's the most terrible idea ever. Unless Jean comes back and has some bad ass make up sex with Scott. If he died in that way, I might actually buy it. She orgasms and he explodes. Not bad. Mystique was the most interesting and versatile character in the last film. Yeah, get rid of her. Plus, since she's mostly covered in make-up, she'd be easy to recast if Romijn was tired of putting on all the blue. If Prof X die or Magneto die, so does the franchise.

  • June 13, 2005, 12:47 p.m. CST

    in defense of Cyclops and other thoughts

    by oisin5199

    I guess if you're going to kill Cyclops, you might as well kill Xavier too, since Cyke was the poster boy for Xavier's dream and his surrogate son. But if you kill off these two, you might as well kill the franchise, since the whole X-Men story is about Xavier's dream of mutants and humans getting along. WTF!!?? Though he was underused in the first two films, I think Cyke is crucial to the X-verse. There was a deleted scene in the first film between Scott and Xavier that was brilliant and revealed their close relationship. The genius about some of Singer's moments was how one line might reveal tons of backstory. We didn't need flashbacks when we had the line "He helped me build it." From that deleted scene, we got a sense of the incredible history these two had together as a father/son relationship, similar to how we got an entire history from Jean and Xavier. Having said that, this film should be ratching it up, but it doesn't seem to go anywhere (Last film we sorta had Artie, this time Leech?). I don't agree that they got the Magneto/Mystique relationship "right" in the movies, because as far as I know, they weren't a couple in the comics, and she was much more than a henchman(woman) - rather she had her own agenda and motivations and was much more devious. The first two movies seemed to be about the coming war. This movie should BE the war, at least the first real battle. The only thing that would make sense is SENTINELS! Even if they're not the giant robots. The robots themselves were besides the point. The point was that there was someone who hated mutants so much that he would build these things just to kill muties (and yes, there's a father/son thing there too - remember, Trask's son was a mutant and didn't know it), and the government is complicit. And that the cure is worse than the disease, since the Sentinels eventually get out of control. On a different note, I just read the 1999 series Children of the Atom, which retells how the original crew (Beast, Cyclops, Iceman, Angel, Jean Grey) got together with Xavier for the first time as teenagers. It was brilliant and a great example of what should have been done to begin with (maybe to consider down the line if they ever do an X-men begins). Even though Magneto plays a crucial role, the bad guys are the government, and a hatemonger Homo sapien supremacist. It's a more intimate story about hate and racism, and it doesn't read as science fiction. It's realistic, it's frightening, and it's harsh, but also optimistic. I'm still not sure what to think about X3, but I hope there's time to change the major mistakes.

  • June 13, 2005, 12:48 p.m. CST

    Industry Postings

    by JaeZion

    I keep checking up on this while I'm trying to clean my house, and a few folks here, posing questions to us all instead of speaking their own mind, seem like they might be "in-the-know". Somebody call Ratner, call Rothman, tell them we're mocking them and that we're all committed to going to the beach next Memorial Day, even if it snows. And yes, it's Ratner's fault, too. He's a fan, yet he thinks this is great? I think we all now know the real reason Vaughn quit. He's an X-fan with integrity.

  • June 13, 2005, 12:52 p.m. CST

    Great article. We need more of this...

    by Mr. Waturi

  • June 13, 2005, 12:55 p.m. CST

    To quote Bart Simpson

    by Abefruman

    I didnt think it was possible but this both sucks and blows

  • June 13, 2005, 12:56 p.m. CST

    you cant kill cyclops and professor x!!

    by 2ndprize

    dumb dumb dumb dumb.................anyone remember when the cartoon did that bishop storyline in the future, and we saw a pan of grave sites marked with our beloved x-men's names, if you wanna kill em off, do it in a clever way like that. dont kill a franchis to get people to see one movie.

  • June 13, 2005, 1:09 p.m. CST

    A damm shame..

    by perfecto_fan

    I t is a shame that these execs do not go to these comic book shows and embrace the fans and their needs. What is missing is this, the realization that we are in the beginning a whole new young generation that is seeking heroes. Because of the bright colors and strong themes, young tykes are growing up with these influences and they relate. My young nephew, only 2, adores Spider-Man..loves the movies, the cartoons, everything...His imagination is soaring with this concept, planting the seeds of creativity, already drawing and talking about heroes and good in general...What these execs do not know is that that the world needs heroes...Do it right, and you will get your preious returns/profits in the long run.

  • June 13, 2005, 1:13 p.m. CST

    X-Men Begins

    by JaeZion

    one more than I'll shut up: The fact that we're using phraseology like "X-Men Begins", and "8 years from now", should tell someone at Fox that they are losing us. Was the CG work for the sentinels going to really be that costly? If you need extra post-production budget, Lauren Schuler-Donner, maybe a certain Oscar-winning actress could go fuck herself and you could save yourself some money!!! We liked her when this was an opportunity for her to do something big, but after she got all full of herself she got useless. Why don't actors and actresses realize that with editing alone the director can make or break them. Fox should have made Singer, Dougherty, Harris, and De Santo their priorities, not Cat-slut. Besides, you could've taken fresh unknowns and brought in 5 new team members for the amount of cash you'll waste on Halle Berry, either upfront or the back end. (No huge backend for this one, bitches!) Not to mention the millions that will be wasted on all of Halle's "perks" she'll get, which is shit that no one ever talks about. Not just only the X-fans, but do you think the moviegoing public as a whole would listen to shit like "the Sentinel sequence was just too long and expensive", if in the same breath they were also telling us truth like they almost didn't sign Halle because "we couldn't get the caterer she wanted" or "she can't work properly if she doesn't have an ass-masseuse in her trailer, which has to be the biggest one on the lot"? (I apologize to all the TBer's for my vulgarity, I just can't let this go. We were all pumped on May 3rd, 2005 when we left the theatre, and now that's been stolen from us by a bunch of bean-counters. Oh, well. When X-3 tanks worse than Electra, at least we can say "We told you so".)

  • June 13, 2005, 1:14 p.m. CST

    Sounds fine

    by PoliMan4

    Stop Bitching. Plus, Superherohype had a link to a video of the writer stating that this was a months old rough draft, and that the finished script is very different. My predictions: Cyke and Prof don't STAY dead, but come back in this fabled "third act", and things'll be generally more polished and fleshed out. I trust the writers, they like what they're writing about.

  • June 13, 2005, 1:16 p.m. CST

    "Controversial"

    by abysstare

    I knew this was going to be crap the minute Arad came out with that line. Yeah, it's going to be "controversial" because it SUCKS! And that's the only way he can say that, without actually saying it.

  • June 13, 2005, 1:21 p.m. CST

    Hey Poliman! Read the whole thread, then shut up.

    by JaeZion

    Now I'm done. Oh, and BallToucher shouldn't even be here. We have no idea who Mori really is or what he does. He certainly knows more about this than you. Apt screen name, though.

  • June 13, 2005, 1:22 p.m. CST

    FastandtheMorion?

    by JaeZion

  • June 13, 2005, 1:23 p.m. CST

    I haven't actually thought about how big this whole X3 situa

    by brokentusk

    You know, I'm not an asshole. I do try and give people the benefit of the doubt. Brett Ratner isn't the worst director ever and Simon Kinberg isn't stupid. But like, even though the team making X3 isn't BAD, it's just not good enough. This film franchise was only as good as the people making it. Without the creative talent that was there from the beginning, the franchise will become something else, something less special and ordinary... like THE FANTASTIC FOUR... just another Summer action movie that happens to be based on a huge comic. As Drew said, we are never going to see the vision Bryan Singer was waiting to reveal. That is sad indeed.

  • June 13, 2005, 1:24 p.m. CST

    BAN FANTASTIC FOUR!

    by abysstare

    Don't go see it, no matter what. The tanking of FF is the last and only chance to save X3. If FF bombs badly, it's the one thing left that could halt production on X3 before it's too late. It will show everyone at Fox what happens when you make crappy films using half-assed scripts and cheap-ass budgets in an effort to rush them to the theatre and cash in. Do NOT go see FF-- spread the word!!!!Otherwise, I'm telling you, it's all over.

  • June 13, 2005, 1:24 p.m. CST

    "X-Men" in theaters May 2015.

    by The Heathen

    Yeah, it's sad to think as fans a lot of us (I know I am) are already thinking of a revamp in 8-10 years. That is a sure sign that they're losing us. Shit, shit, shitty, shitter

  • June 13, 2005, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Third act revealed!

    by CountVonGroovy

    The X-Men battle a giant spider! Rothman cribs a page from Jon Peters! Fans cry in their Cokes! Halle Berry goes on welfare! Rupert Murdoch still owns a 1/3 of the planet! Life... goes... on...?

  • June 13, 2005, 1:27 p.m. CST

    I have a funny feeling about this movie...

    by GuyInGA

    ...if it does bad and doesn't make any money for FOX (which who knows at this point), then FOX will do EVERYTHING they can to get Singer, et al back in for X4 (and X5). I wouldn't be surprised if that does happen, X3 will be a 'dream' or a 'manipulation' of some supervillain (Apocalypse or Mr. Sinister). X3 will be worse than anything Joel Schmacher has done to Batman.

  • June 13, 2005, 1:28 p.m. CST

    come on

    by lofe101

    are you telling me that for all the setups from x2 for x3 this is going to be no better than a pussy version of a daredevil sequal. ive been whating 5 years to see gambit and jugernaut and now i here there cameos and a pussy henchmen. come on, if i dont see jugernaut run threw the mansion wall after the prof everything ive known of the x-men will be lost. please for the love of god some one has to fix this or every comic book movie is doomed. also weres pyro? he's all already to be a bad ass. what the fu%$

  • June 13, 2005, 1:30 p.m. CST

    Cyclops and Xavier die; Wolverine gets his own movie. Soooo...

    by TheImperialGuy

    JUST as the Oscar-winning "diva" requested. Makes sense that a studio head would think of something like this, right?

  • Well the plot sounds like crap But please the first two were way over-rated...what can one expect?

  • June 13, 2005, 1:33 p.m. CST

    Train Wreck

    by Waspo

    This is like watching a train wreck. How can you screw up X3? Everything has been clearly laid out for you by Singer and his team. Rothman, if this movie fails then you have a lot to answer for. Also, Singer getting physically dragged from the Fox lot??? What the hell is that? No wonder he doesn't want anything to do with them. No amount of money can ever replace the level of BS that move came from.

  • June 13, 2005, 1:35 p.m. CST

    Rothman and Other Suits

    by aheartapart

    Does anyone have any contact info for Mr. Rothman or anyone else involved with this? My google-fu has failed me. Wouldn't it be great if the fan community was organized enough to make an example out of Mr. Rothman. I know he's not the only movie executive to act this way. You know, greedy, arrogant and shortsighted, but why not target this douche to send a message to Hollywood that real movie fans are tired of their corporate bullshit. I think it would be amazing if fans began a campaign to make Rothman's life miserable. I've seen fans mobilize to save their favorite tv shows. Well we have an opportunity to save the future of film. Sorry for the hyperbole, but assholes like Rothman have far too much power. If we can find contact info we should begin inundating Rothman and company with email, snail mail and phone calls expressing our displeasure with his handling of the franchise. Fuck, if you see this guy or any other movie executive, call them a bunch of money-grubbing douches. "It is the duty of righteous men to make war on all undeserved privilege."

  • June 13, 2005, 1:36 p.m. CST

    Fox/Hollywood/Execs/The Weather

    by bluebottle

    it's only going to get worse.

  • June 13, 2005, 1:36 p.m. CST

    Simon Kinberg

    by The Heathen

  • June 13, 2005, 1:38 p.m. CST

    preach, brother moriarty

    by vicious_bastard

    Great read.

  • June 13, 2005, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Let's start this whole boycott thing off early with Fantasti

    by IndustryKiller

    It looks horrible anyway and you all know it. It looks cheesy as hell and they have absolutely ruined the character of Dr. Doom, a character who is more interesting than the entire Fantastic Four combined and arguably Marvels most bad ass villain. So fuck it, abysstare is right let's start this whole boycott thing off early and show them that if they spoon feed us shit (Daredevil, Punisher, Hulk, Elektra) then we willr eact accordingly. And I know the general concensus is that the XMen and Spider Man films are good but c'mon they really aren't that good. Theya re merely passable, extremely overrated, and by no means the epic adventures we deserved. So maybe it's time to kill this whole Marvel comics film craze and show them they they should lay low for a few years, think about what they have done, go back ott he drawing board, and come back when they are ready to get intelligent people working on these projects and rake in some real fucking money. I'm not sure there is a more self destructive business system than that of a Hollywood studio. Long term gains (i.e. good franchise building films) seem to mean nothing to them in the face of meager hit or miss short term gains. pathetic.

  • June 13, 2005, 1:44 p.m. CST

    X3: What should have been

    by abysstare

    Hellfire Club/Sentinels. Angel as a member who defects ultimately to the X-Men, Pyro as member, possibly Mystique as member, intro White Queen. Jean comes back unstable... and finds herself being mind-fucked by the club so that they can use her... the rise of the Sentinels on the government side of things... Magneto revealed as the true Hellfire Club leader by the end?... Jean goes either goes dark phoenix in her escaping from the club and freeing the others and sacrifices herself at the end in a last ditch effort to destroy the sentinels, or reveals herself as Dark Phoenix at the end instead, opening up the possiblities for X4. Cyclops and Jean. Storm and Nightcrawler. Iceman&Rogue. Use the damn comics!!!

  • June 13, 2005, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Right on! Boycott "Fantastic Four."

    by aheartapart

    Send them a fucking message by speaking in the only language they understand. Cold hard cash. Anyway, if you must see this movie just find a way to see it that doesn't require you to line their pockets.

  • June 13, 2005, 1:47 p.m. CST

    I mean come on-

    by bluebottle

    Fox and MOST movie studios are in the BUSINESS of making MOVIES. They are not out to make films for a small niche audience. The only reason there's an X-Men 3 is because 1 and 2 did so well at the box office. The first one managed to appeal to a mass audience. If it had tanked, there would never had been a sequel. The stuido executives could care less about what a few thousand geeks think. We are not their audience. As much as we'd like to think we are. X-Men has proved itself to make money at the box office, so they just want to pump out a third one and make money. The ONLY reason that they guys making Superman are taking their time, and putting in the effort, is because they're re-launching a franchise, and they want to get it right... They want a good film that appeals to a broader audience so they can MAKE MORE FILMS AND MAKE MORE MONEY. They whole thing makes me sick, but there's nothing we can do about it. Except boycott the movie, but that won't do any good because millions of people will line up to see X-Men 3, assumming it's a sure thing. There is no room for filmmakers in Hollywood...

  • June 13, 2005, 1:49 p.m. CST

    THE X-NERDS, or Way ta run that douchbag down the road, Drew!

    by Devil'sOwn

    FIRST OF ALL, let's get one thing straight. Those of us who actually give a damn and halfway know what the hell we are talking about are not geeks, we are not nerds, and we are most certainly not punk-ass bitches! Hell nah! Those of us ordinary, average, everyday folks who take the time to write these words with smiles on our faces, and a song in our hearts (mine is "Angel of Death" by Slayer) are FANS of the particular subject at hand!! And speaking as a typical movie lover, I just like ta give ya my own gut-level reactions about this latest twist in the ever-evolving saga of the X-Movies. It may come as no surprise to some of you who can tear yourselves away from playing Halo 2, or whatever the hell it is you do that the X-Men, and it's related spinoffs, is just about the most popular and best-selling comics series ever. And if you may have picked up some mutant titles over the years, you know why. This is why I find it impossible to concieve anyone approving such a half-ass script. After enduring gimmick-laden comic book movie plots in the first two films, it's about damn time somebody layed off blow, manned up, and gave us a STORY where the plot IS the gimmick! Flesh-and-blood character development, believable interactions, and depictions of life that don't just make sense, they MEAN something! It can't be just some brainless video game action movie. We have to care. And because the only constant in this world is change, a few shocks are fine. But it should at least have a nodding relationship with logic! Any damn fool can say, "Here's something they didn't see coming. It'll 'shake things up'." That's the hack's way out. All developments in X-Men are a direct result of what has gone before. I guaran-damn-tee you, even those people who are not "fanboys" do NOT like their intelligence insulted. Give them credit for the good sense God gave 'em. I despise scatalogical metaphors, but shit is shit. If you try to toss off some stink-nugget for the sake of some quick cash, it's gonna blow up in your faces. Life can be traumatic. No one should realistically expect a "perfect", page-for-page adaptation of any comic series, I don't give a damn how "cinematic" it may be. Graphic novels and movies may both be forms of entertainment, but ultimately, I recognize there has to be a difference. One is the pure realization of dreams; the other is a "real world" depiction of those visions. And fer christsakes, learn how to juggle an ensemble cast, people. If I hear one more preppiefied Hollywood dickpimple yammer on about "logistics", and "screen time", I'm gonna go on a cross- country killing spree. The X-Men should be about more than a few "stars". No Character Left Behind!! It's not the fucking Hugh Jackman and Friends Show. They are, first and foremost, characters in service of a plot. Can you dig it? They should be BETTER than the average thriller.

  • June 13, 2005, 1:53 p.m. CST

    Hellfire Club

    by I Speak Jive

    I always thought the next obvious step in the continuing plot was the Hellfire Club. The first movie was about a mutant vs. humanity, the second was about humanity vs. the mutants... the third should really be certain mutants and humanity vs. mutants who oppose them. The Hellfire Club was about mutants in concert with humans using their power to make money and acquire power. It only makes sense that with so many mutants, some would align against humans and some would align against their own, a la France during WW II.

  • June 13, 2005, 1:53 p.m. CST

    Halle Fuckin Berry Sucks!!!!

    by bryce

    I remember an interview that she gave before the first film came out, complaining about the roles that she had been relegated to as a "black actress." She said that she had been forced by her agency into doing a comic book film she didn't want to do. Now, after her obvious drawing power in great films like Catwoman, Fox is attempting to placate this box office behemoth, by giving her weak and inaccurate portrayal of Storm leadership of the X-Men. In my opinion, Cyclops was never fleshed out, and if I were James Marsden I would say Fuck you to the whole process, and stick with Bryan Singer. Fuck Halle Berry and her vacuous performance. Oh, and by the way, I am a black man, lest anyone think my utter contempt for her is racially motivated.

  • June 13, 2005, 1:54 p.m. CST

    Bluebottle- You are the weakest link!

    by abysstare

    You're wrong. Comics/scifi fans have shown time and time again that their voice DOES have an effect on the studios, and the message does get across and DOES affect box office. Where do you think most of the negative buzz for Catwoman originated? And do you not see how that, in turn, affected box office? I'm not going to say that it ALWAYS works, but there are countless examples of loud fan response having an effect on media, whether it be television or film. And really, if Batman kills at the box office while FF tanks, I guarantee FOX will get a very serious message about what they're doing wrong.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:03 p.m. CST

    Screw you, BlueBottle!!!

    by JaeZion

    Now I'm at work wasting time on this: If, as Bluebottle contends, studios need to market films to a mass audience to succeed, how would one explain "Batman and Robin"? Simple. It was made for happy meals and soccer moms, and the soccer mom with the van full of kids doesn't take them 5 times in the first three weeks, she takes them ONCE. X-Men 1 made money because it was so fucking short that a really motivated theatre-owner could show it 8 times a day. That's the reason it hit 50 million in three days. You think it's Joe Average NASCAR fan that's making Episode 3 the phenomenon it is. Hell no. It's guys like Harry when he was young going back to see it 10, 12, 15 times. After BlueBoner and the soccer kids go see X-3, it will still 45 short of 50 million.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:05 p.m. CST

    The more I read

    by Eshu

    the more I'm sure this movie will suck ass. Bring on WONDER WOMAN!

  • June 13, 2005, 2:06 p.m. CST

    God I hate studio executives. I hate them so very, very much.

    by I Dunno

    Useless fucking wastes of space and good cocaine. Die, Hollywood scum, DIE!

  • June 13, 2005, 2:06 p.m. CST

    follow this link

    by kancerx

    to contact fox and voice your concerns http://www.newscorp.com/management/20film.html

  • June 13, 2005, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Bring back David Hayter

    by newbrak

    At least he could write a decent plot.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:08 p.m. CST

    I actually predicted...

    by Childe Roland

    ...that they'd kill off Cyclops early in this movie. But I thought they'd give the Prof a miss as being too obvious a martyr. Killing Cyclops is a weak way to free up space for other characters. The smarter thing to do would be to refer to him being off coping with Jean's loss. That way if you need him for a future film, you bring him back. While the parts of the story with Beast and Angel seem to be well handled, those are fleeting sequences in an otherwise ill-conceived story (at least by the sound of it). The Senitnels would've been the way to go here, with half of the remaining X-Team (Storm, Wolverine & Nightcrawler) being captured or otherwise incapacitated in the first encounter during act 1 and Prof. X calling Beast out of semi-retirement to shepherd a bunch of next genners (Colossus, Angel, Rogue, Iceman, Jubilee) on a mission to rescue them. Inside the holding facility, Nightcrawler escapes confinement and frees Wolverine and the two look for Storm. In process, they discover the Senitnel program is going to launch an unsanctioned all-out attack on the newly formed Island nation of Genosha - Magneto's safe haven for mutantkind (given as a concession by the UN after the events of X2 - something that can be touched on in the first act through a news report on TV in the background). Wolverine has Nightcrawler relay this info to the Prof., who tells Beast and his team of young'uns while Wolvie goes deeeper inside the complex to rescue Storm. Nightcrawler meets up with Beast's team and they all head to Genosha (with Professor X) to warn Magneto. Act three is the inevitable fight between the new X-Men and the new-and-improved Brotherhood (Mystique, Pyro, Avalanche, Blob and Gambit) which the Prof will ultimately put an end to by reasoning with Magneto. The two groups join forces for a big fight against the Sentinels. Back in the facility, Wolerine encounters and befirends young Shadowcat, who helps him find and rescue Storm using her phasing powers. Then he fights their way back out of the facility, finding and nearly killing the man behind the Sentinel project (Cameron Hodge) in the process. But Kitty gets him to not give into the rage. The new X-Men on Genosha beat the Sentinels, but at a terrible cost... lots of innocent mutant lives lost and Magneto apparently dead. His brotherhood vows vengeance, except for Gambit, who decides to return with the X-Men (he likes Rogue, y'see). After the dust settles, Beast turns down an offer by the Prof to stay on at the school because he's got a bigger job offer... as Secretary of Mutant Affairs. So Storm (now out of her coma) is named leader of the team and mention is made of Wolvie taking another leave. How do you end it? Turns out the whole thing was a recounting by Wolverine (you could actually have him do the voice over intro to the movie to bookend this) who has stopped to visit Cyclops on his way to Canada to do some soul searching (great setup for his spinoff). He asks Cyke to think about going back to help Storm, but Cyke says he's not ready. Wolvie rides off on his bike and Cyke goes to the lake where Jean died... then the movie ends with her shooting up out of the water and giving the "I am fire and life incarnate..." speech. But this isn't the absolute end. The absolute end is when Cameron Hodge morphs into Mr. Sinister and makes a call to an unseen entity on a secure line. "The pieces are in place, my Master. The weak have been culled and the fit have been made ready to face your final trial. What shall it be then, Lord Apocalypse? Famine? War? Pestilence?" The voice says there's been a change of plans. It appears now that, before the final test, mutantkind will face a trial by fire. That's how I'd do it, anyway. Sets up at least one, if not two sequels plus the spinoff.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:09 p.m. CST

    David Hayter!!!

    by JaeZion

    He directs now, too, right? Let him do the whole thing.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:10 p.m. CST

    "Fox doesn't cater to a niche audience"

    by Ribbons

    Dudes, Moriarty and his Merry Band of Geeks (i.e. me and people like me) are not the enemy. We're asking for a fucking good movie and you assholes are attacking us. 'X-Men' and 'X2' were good AND fiscally lucrative without having the so-called "necessities" that a broad audience entails. You can make a movie accessible to the general public WITHOUT idiotic clich

  • June 13, 2005, 2:10 p.m. CST

    We can only hope.....

    by JCubedz

    Batman is a HUGE success, and Fantastic 4 is a total bomb!!! Perhaps then Fox can see it takes a good script AND a good director to make a good comicbook movie. If Fantastic four is even mildly successful this version of X-Men is goin ahead full steam.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:11 p.m. CST

    Long Live Ribbons!!!!!

    by JaeZion

    Not I have to get away from you people for the rest of the day.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Kinberg can't call this review bullshit.

    by quantum_ken

    It wasn't a line here or there that was taken out of context. This was an actual script. He actually (co-)wrote the death of Cyclops and Prof. X. Now, to turn around and hide behind the shroud of "oh that was a long time ago" is bullshit. Someone with any semblance of sanity or common sense would have never made those choices at any time.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:12 p.m. CST

    I can relate to Hale Berry

    by The Heathen

    A) Because I have Diabetes too and B) I am white as well as she is. BUT, I can not fathom her being so hell bent on ruining X-Men. I won't see FF for sure now, and in turn I will see Batman Begins twice. Fuck you Fox and Rothman.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:13 p.m. CST

    what's the deal with Norrington?

    by Vern

    I agree with Salvatore Gravato, I would like to thank this individual Rothman for preventing a sequel to Independence Day if that's realy true. I don't like to throw the word "hero" or the phrase "there is a real X-Man, and his name is whatsisdick Rothman or whatever the guy in this article was named" around but this would be a great opportunity. There aren't many people who can clearly state YES, I made the world a better place and contributed to the progress of mankind and then point to something so clean cut as preventing a sequel to Independence Day. So thank you to America's bravest for making a better tomorrow and, apparently, cornholing the entire cast of Suspiria in a bathroom if I read that correctly. Anyway, I wanted to ask what exactly happened with Steve Norrington. My man Moriarty throws it out there as "this is the guy who ran Norrington out of the business" as if we knew there was some guy who did that. But of course, nobody ever heard such a tale. I'm sure it is extremely exaggerated (like he took a week off or something) but I want to know what the deal is. Norrington is a unique Jekkyl and Hyde type character since he directed BLADE (best comical type movie of all time, forever) and THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARILY GENTLE MEN (one of the worst). His third movie THE LAST MINUTE was pretentious but actually pretty good, or at least more promising than the gentlemen one. So I wouldn't mind him coming back to low budget movies again.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:16 p.m. CST

    The Worst Script They Could Have Done!!!!!

    by The-Bat-Is Back

    At the end of X2 i was so excited when i saw the phoenix coming towards the screen, the thoughts of what X3 could have in store were endless. Then I saw some footage from one of the writers saying 'Yes. the phoenix is in the film' and 'yes the juggernaut, angel and beast will be in it', as well as two story lines going on through out the film. As you can imagine i was hyped. THEN!!!!! I read the X3 script review. And lets just say i aint too pleased. I'm shocked that jean kills scott (even if he's acting wasn't brilliant, in the comics Cyclops is the core of the x-men team) I dnt understand why mystique uses the de-mutantizer or what ever its called to change her self into a human. Its unclear to me why a) beast would be driven the car to jean greys house b) why magneto is there with prof X and c) how prof X contained jean's strength and power for such a long period of time. as well as that why would she become so angry at prof X she goes crazy. The scene where beast is late and is rushing to see the president whilst dodging bullets etc, in X2 the president wasn't too sure about mutants and it goes over what happened in the opening scene of X2. another thing is where is, Nightcrawler and Pyro are they just not mentioned here or have they been 4 got about. One thing that sounds interesting is when angel escapes from WORTHINGTON SR. trying to give him the serum. On the whole i am NOT very happy about this script but im hoping it has been changed a little bit (p.s. whats wolverine and storm all about... any one??????)

  • June 13, 2005, 2:16 p.m. CST

    yeah Hayter is the way to go.

    by newbrak

    this synopsis fucking sucks. They need to delay the fucking movie til 2007, have hayter do a full fucking re write, and BEG for singer to come back. Otherwise it will be trash.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:17 p.m. CST

    Childe Roland just crapped a better first draft out of his ASS!

    by abysstare

    Fox, you suck.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:17 p.m. CST

    I think that the problem is that execs DON'T DO COKE anymore

    by HypeEndsHere

    at least Pre-Heaven's Gate they left the money to a director, not a stooge that works for the studio that watches the director like a hawk with purse strings held tight.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:21 p.m. CST

    How many of you whiners have seen FF?

    by oisin5199

    Really, I'm so sick of the FF bashing when the movie isn't even out yet. Yeah, they changed Doom. Get over it. Do you really think the dictator of an imaginary country would play in a movie? Talk about cookie cutter "I'm out to rule the world" moustache twirling (well, underneath the mask) villains. It's called an adaptation. Movie adaptations have to do in shorthand what comic books do over decades. They put him in space. So what? It makes sense for the story, and makes it more personal and compact. Granted, I think Jessica Alba is horribly miscast, but I'm going to see it and then judge for myself. It looks like cheesy fun, but let's face it, that's really what the FF is anyway. And those of you who are naive enough to think a fanboy boycott is going to make an ounce of difference to a movie studio, get real. We can only hope that this discussion might have some influence like with the old Superman script, but I doubt it. I'm also tired of the kneejerk responses about the Marvel films (Daredevil, Hulk, Punisher, Electra sucks, Spiderman rocked.). I haven't seen the last two, but I liked the first two. I think they're worthy additions to the genre, as appropriate to their material as Spiderman was. I guess people just like to make hyperbolic, grand, sweeping, negative statements.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:23 p.m. CST

    " BAN FANTASTIC FOUR! "

    by Thirteen 13

    That shouldn't be a problem. After seeing that trailer for it I immediately knew they screwed it up and Schumachered it. I had no plans to see it, rent it, or view it in any way shape or form, and I know many others who are going to do the same.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:26 p.m. CST

    Harlow

    by Ribbons

    I'm trying to read this TalkBack from the top down and so I'll probably end up posting stuff completely unrelated to where the current conversation's at, but I just wanted to say to Harlow before I forgot: that is an awesome idea for how to approach 'X-Men 3.' Much better, at least conceptually, than what we're getting.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:30 p.m. CST

    Vern

    by Ribbons

    After his experience making 'League of Extraordinary Gentlemen,' Norrington said he was done making movies for Hollywood. If you see anything else of his, IF you see anything else of his, it'll be independent stuff.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:31 p.m. CST

    Hale Berry has been demanding for some time now that she should

    by Thirteen 13

    And she is going to get her demands fulfilled, even if it means ruining X-3 with this and so many other reasons.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:32 p.m. CST

    Where Avi Arad's loyalties lie?

    by MachinaMan

    Genro says: "Avi Arad is allowing this film to be made. He's openly supporting every decision. In return for all the shitty deals he's been apart of - boycott the FF opening weekend. " You gotta wonder about someone who sings the praises of Blade: Trinity, a cluster-fuck if there ever was one, and now goes on to defend X3, when all indications show that it's going to stink on ice. What's really interesting is that DC is currently following the model Marvel originally created, and would lead to the box-office success of Batman Begins (despite the death-touch of David Goyer), while Marvel seems to more and more often follow what was DC's model: namely diverge so far from your source material as to alienate your core audience and to interfer in the development process to such a degree that the final product is compromised.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:32 p.m. CST

    This article just goes to show

    by Doc_Strange

    That this site can still be anti-establishment. Hopefully people will listen up like they did with Batman.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Yeah, that's some good cryptic writing...

    by Kevin Bosch

    "Jean and Xavier fight. [Death of character censored because it's too shocking.] Jean does some other stuff. Xavier is never mentioned again." Anyway, it doesn't all sound that bad. I'm still a lot more worried about the director. A lot of cool things seem to be in place in the script, it's just the details and orders that seem out of whack. I like Beast established as an original student of Xavier's, and going on to do other things. It gives the whole premise of the X-Men movie more history and depth. They should highlight Juggernaut as Xavier

  • June 13, 2005, 2:43 p.m. CST

    right on

    by lofe101

    chide roland set it all straight, you should be the writer, down with rothman

  • June 13, 2005, 2:48 p.m. CST

    Halle Berry's demands are not being taken into account at al

    by HypeEndsHere

    The only reason she's even in the two X sequels is because A) she's famous B) her character has been established C) Fox thinks it would be weird continuity for the series if the actor changed. also, what black actress (of equal fame) wants to play Storm now? Just put Dick Sargent in blackface.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:51 p.m. CST

    Let's all take a deep breath...

    by SidS

    Ok, now I know this review fills us with a sense of doom, beleive me I feel it, I am a huge X-Men fan, have been since I was 8. Now, this is what I see: 1. Ok, Halle Berry maybe motivated by money, but she does have a point, Storm does need to have a better role than jsut standing there looking blankly int oa screen as her eyes are digitally whited out. I don't think it is fair to put the blame of the script on her IMHO. 2. If this is indeed the real story for the script, it is INFURIATING that Avi Arad and the team @ Marvel haven't said anything about it! I mean, isn't X-Men Stan Lee's baby?? 3. The reason why the X-Men have done well is because there is someone for everyone. Every fan has a favourite mutant, and lets not diss one in faovur of the other. Granted, there are certain that are a bigger draw than others. 4. I hope to GOD that this Rothman freak burns in hell for eternity to the power of infinity!! 5. My plea: Please Marvel, step in!! Do something!! Don't let X-Men crash and burn!!

  • June 13, 2005, 2:52 p.m. CST

    The Beast thing is a mistake

    by Ribbons

    While it sounds cool, I guess, one of the things that was the most compelling and I'm sure deliberate about Singer's X-Universe was that the President's attitude towards mutants was ambivalent. He didn't know them, he didn't know how to deal with them. It was volatile. Now all of a sudden we discover he's got a giant, blue, talking man-tiger than kicks his way through doors "consulting" with him? Okay, sure. It's not a lame idea in and of itself, but it contradicts the already established relationship between the President and the mutant community. The rest of the Beast stuff is fine, I guess. That part particularly struck me as a bad move, and not from a "fanboy's" perspective, asshats, but as someone who thinks it's completely disrespectful towards what preceded it, and for no good reason.

  • June 13, 2005, 2:53 p.m. CST

    I like Nachokoolaid's (sp) idea's, except for the Astero

    by iamnicksaicnsn

    that's just a shitty name. But an asteroid does establish a good reason for the Sentinals... God, I thought that this was going to be the Sentinals movie... We NEED them. And what happened to the Blob? I thought nothing could stop him!

  • June 13, 2005, 2:58 p.m. CST

    I'd praise Fox if they got "death-touch" Goyer right now and

    by The Heathen

    I don't thnik Goyer has done anything horrible besides Blade Trinity.

  • June 13, 2005, 3:05 p.m. CST

    The No Sentinels Thing is the Most Retarded

    by ZombieSolutions

    even from a marketing standpoint. face it -- people love giant killer robots. ESPECIALLY the demographic that this film is aimed at. leaving out that whole thing is just about the stupidest thing I can think of. it's as if they want it to fail. ****** in terms of the other stuff -- Cyclops's death, who cares? Cyclops is boring. Professor X's death doesn't bother me too much either. not because i don't like him, but because it could pave the way to Magneto leading the XMen. and the Jean Grey thing sounds Phoenixish enough to me. and i'm happy to see Kitty Pryde in the mix. plus, if you think about it, Rogue was more or less totally re-written for the last two films, so... maybe this won't be a total disaster. but no Sentinels? c'mon. that's just dumb.

  • June 13, 2005, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Ribbons

    by Harlow

    Thanks Ribbons. I think the whole mutant concentration camp angle would be a nice bookend with the the opening scenes of X-men with Magneto in the Nazi concentration camp. I'm hoping for the best, however. The casting to me seems inspired (and yes I'm talking about Grammer). And I'm definitely not a Ratner hater. I do think he's more than compentent and entirely capable of doing a good job. I just hope he hasn't inherited such a mess than it's beyond hope. Fox would be smart to put this one back in dev.

  • I have no problem with killing Cyclops. He's a rather boring character with a boring power anyway but Xavier? My only guess is that Picard asked for too much money or expressed a desire to bail. Either that or they ran out of ways to incapacitate him. They really patined themselves into a corner by making him so pwerful that he could end any conflict he wanted to, so they have to take him out for the rest of the story in both films. And we have another drug/device that kills/converts mutants/non-mutants. For a comic series that has an endless number of characters with endless plot possibilities, this script seems really redundant and unimaginative, even by hollywood screenwriter standards. And for those who think Kelsey Grammer as Beast is a good idea, don't you think that a CGI creature that will probably look like Frasier and talk like Frasier is going to get nothing but laughs from the audience? Anyway, between the re-makes, reinventions, re-imaginings and this shit, Hollywood is creatively bankrupt. Movie making needs to return to the movie makers and needs to be taken from the hands of these worthless, coked up marketing majors or it's only going to get worse. Did I mention that Hollywood producers and executives suck ass?

  • June 13, 2005, 3:43 p.m. CST

    Damn...

    by adambalm

    When I heard Beast announced, I figured he'd be replacing Jean as the doctor/biologist of the team. Seems kind of odd having him being a policy wonk, but I'm not going to complain. I just hope he isn't Tony the Tiger as he'd been in the comics since Morrison's reimagining. Beast should be more ape than Lion. The concept sketch of him that was included on the original X-Men DVD was perfect. The whole point is that to the world he looks like an evolutionary backstep, but inside there's cultured and refined mind. A Lois Leakey or Stephen Jay Gould in the body of Koko the gorilla. They'll probably do the tiger Beast because A) It'll sell more toys and B) they'll want to separate him from nightcrawler. Too bad.

  • June 13, 2005, 3:47 p.m. CST

    Great work, Mori

    by BillEmic

    There's already been a ton of posts, too many to read right now, but I just have to throw in my two cents: Mori, this is probably my favorite article you've written in quite some time. You totally nail it to Rothman. Speaking as a X-Men fan, I hope Fox listens to Moriarty and tries to turn things around.

  • June 13, 2005, 3:52 p.m. CST

    I really tried but this sounds so bad...

    by pastwatch

    By killing Cyclops they lose perhaps the most important emotional hook to the Dark Phoenix Saga. Having Cyke go through the emotional ringer while trying to save her, perhaps Jean experiencing internal conflict and the X gang trying to come up with a way to get should have plenty of story for this movie. New mutants, clever subplots would have filled it out just fine for me. This "controversial" plot doesn't seem well thought out to me. Good controversy would propel the story forward in a meaningful way. This smells exactly the way Mori is calling it. The executives are thinking financially and politically and thus ruining the properties. Where is Avi Arad and company? Have they sold out as well? If so, I believe that the Marvel Age of Movies is over and DC's star is about to shine.

  • June 13, 2005, 3:53 p.m. CST

    i'd be happy with this IF...

    by teddanson37

    i hate most of this...but i think i'd be happy if they kept the killing of significant characters to a minimum. and didn't let wolvie hook up with storm. in fact if they'd just kill storm...i'd pay to see that. i wouldn't care what else happens. just to see the death of the character halle butchered two years ago. i remember when i saw halle in costume in the original trailer i thought "that's not storm". and the new hair helped a little in X2, but that only made up for the very suspicious loss of accent on storm's part between the two movies. halle is terrible. if fox wants to kill someone kill storm. it may not be contraversial, but it's be a heckuva lot more fun to watch than this crap.

  • June 13, 2005, 3:54 p.m. CST

    I'm tell you, let ME direct this thing!

    by LHombreSiniestro

    I'll do a re-write and hire somebody great to do a re-write of my script. It'll be fan-fucking-tastic. If you don't let me do this one, then I'm gonna re-start the franchise over in 15 years. I mean....Cyclops.....dead?! What in the fuck!??!!? Cyclops IS The fucking X-Men. He's the TEAM LEADER! Storm!? Halle Berry fucked us over hard (which speaking literally wouldnt be so bad) with her want to have a bigger role. She can't LEAD, she's not a LEADING actress in a movie like this. Her star is falling fast. If Leech is in it, are the rest of the Morlocks in it? I didn't see anything about em in it; but if Storm wanted a better leading role you could have her fight Callisto and become THEIR "leader", but dont make storm the fucking leader of X-MEN. Come on, This movie's gonna blow. But, I did nearly get hard when I read that GAMBIT was in it.... albeit his short changed badguy role....I don't care, the Ragin' Cajun was my favorite when i was a kid, and just suggesting him onscreen is fantastic. But, if I made this movie, it wouldn't be THE GAMBIT SHOW, trust me. LEMME MAKE THIS DAMN MOVIE, all you guys on the TALKBACK can come play mutants too! And it'd be cool to suggest Jean in the movie, but segue into a FULL FLEDGED Dark Phoenix saga in the next movie. Come on, FOX, you know you need another Space movie!

  • June 13, 2005, 4:01 p.m. CST

    the first x men film was 90 minutes long and was very short on a

    by Spacesheik

  • June 13, 2005, 4:03 p.m. CST

    Why Magneto convincing Phoenix to off "You-Know-Who" sucks:

    by Ribbons

    First of all, I think it sucks for a lot of reasons. I hope that anyone who's responsible for this series realizes that killing Xavier changes everything. It also probably cuts the mileage of the franchise in half. And, of course, it eliminates anymore possible moments between Xavier and Magneto without using flashbacks or some cop-out resurrection. But aside from that, the act itself is just a cheap shocker. In 'X2,' Magneto stood up for Xavier when Wolverine discovered that both he and Erik knew about his history with Stryker. He told him what was probably a lie ("The professor trusted you would figure this out on your own") in order to preserve the reputation of someone who was more or less a good man in Logan's mind. Magneto, though he may disagree with him, has an immense amount of respect for Xavier and if anything treats him with reverence. So he'd do the exact opposite in 'X3,' with more disastrous repercussions, just because he was pissed at him for some reason? Maybe, but not bloody likely. But, as has already been established, Rothman couldn't give two shits about the work Singer and Crew did in the past.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:12 p.m. CST

    KILLING OFF CYCLOPS MASSIVE ERROR!!!!!!!!

    by thunderbird77

    Its been a while since I posted here... but this news on this franchise is rediculous. No matter what Morriarty said Cyclops is one of the top three members of the x-men period. Killing him off is cheap and the way its done from what i read is even cheaper!!!!...James Marsden has done a fine job with the character even if he is physically a little small for the roll. I think theyre turfing him to hook up wolverine with jean grey in the future.... classless.. go read the comics for g-ds sake.. the love triangle in the pheonex saga was excellent and honourable....if your gonna kill cyclops he should die at the end in battle to save jean!!!!! ...x-men have great stories guess where to find them ?! in the comics in which they were made....cheap and pathetic... p.s. if its xavier killed as well.... superman3 will have an heir, congratulations idiots for killing the best franchise in all of comics.... holy shit!!!

  • June 13, 2005, 4:16 p.m. CST

    X-cellent Talkback.

    by Devil'sOwn

    Two things frost me, though. 1)The inevitable dipshit who says "overrated"; Fuck! Do you walking cliches even know what that means?! The word has been abused so much, 9 out of 10 times used to describe something where it doesn't even apply, okay? Having an opinion's fine, but get some new material. 2)The inevitable shithead with no sense of history, or any other knowledge of what they're talking about. Storm would be, in fact, the logical choice to lead the X-Men. Sorry, but "Storm sucks!" doesn't make a very compelling argument. Stop it. It makes you sound like a retarded fratboy. Yeah, yeah. Berry's not my first choice t'play Storm either. That would've been the statuesque and commanding Angela Bassett. And I have to agree both Cyclops and Storm were criminally underused in the films, which is just a damn shame. But, whatever your feelings about the actors, I'd like to think this series is about something bigger than celebrity egos. At least, it damn well should be. Ideally, it's about people, and how their actions affect their world.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:20 p.m. CST

    I'm sorry but....

    by oisin5199

    anyone who thinks killing Cyclops is unimportant clearly has no real understanding of the X-verse. I agree with the above poster who said that he's the emotional core of the Dark Phoenix saga. If written right and played right, Cyclops in general could be amazing as the leader who can never lose control and just when you think he's going to let himself have an emotion, he reins himself in. One of the reasons that Cyke has been made irrelevant in the films is that is relationship with Jean was already established and stable (and Jean too old), whereas it would have been more interesting if he'd had to earn her. They now have a chance to rectify that with the Dark Phoenix storyline, but it looks like they're going to blow it. Are they punishing Marsden for siding with Singer? On a side note, I hate to sound like one of those annoying Whedon trollers, but Joss did get it way right when he did his Dark Phoenix ripoff on Buffy: when Willow goes evil and uberpowerful and has to be reined back in by Xander, her friend since childhood. Xander played the Cyclops role, and it was even more interesting, since it was essentially a platonic love that saved her (and the world). Oh yeah, and no silly crystals or space stations or alien races. Just a cheesy Satanic church rising from the ground. I definitely think it's one of those cases where the source material can learn something from the imitators. Pay attention, FOX!

  • June 13, 2005, 4:25 p.m. CST

    Devil'sOwn

    by Ribbons

    While I agree with you about Storm taking control of the X-Men being fine, if set-up well, I think it's important that Cyclops be around to kill or confront Jean, not the other way around. I don't want to sound *too* much like everyone else here, but I'd say Jean either dies definitively or is reformed (somehow; guess that gets a little dodgy without the Shi'ar) and then Scott and her take a leave of abscence from active membership to "convalesce." Or Scott leaves because, well, he killed his wife. Take your pick.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:30 p.m. CST

    Well, that's it

    by Hamish

    Not the script per se that killed this one, but hearing all the other stuff about how it only takes one studio asshole to kill not only a film, but a franchise. These days it's so rare to actually have films to look forward to, the amount of banal tripe being produced and every other film announced being a rehash, but I had X3 on my list of anticipated films. Not so much any more... Oh, and well done Mori for making your feelings felt. It's probably not that easy for someone in your chosen profession to have a go at a senior figure in the industry without fear of repercussions.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:32 p.m. CST

    If Halle Berry has a mohawk

    by superninja

    All will be forgiven.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:34 p.m. CST

    You're right - abysstare/aeZion

    by bluebottle

    The fact that Arrested Development got picked up means that SOMEONE at fox is listening... Hey, Michael Jackson just got off (poor choice of words)... What does that say about the world?

  • June 13, 2005, 4:36 p.m. CST

    oisin5199

    by adambalm

    Yeah, Willow going evil was fucking Shakespeare. Because what happens when someone starts doing evil things? Their hair dyes black and they start shopping at Hot Topic. If Tennyson were alive today, this is what he'd write poems about!

  • June 13, 2005, 4:36 p.m. CST

    too true, super ninja

    by teddanson37

    too true

  • June 13, 2005, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Good Lord! I know why they're doing this!

    by CurryIce

    They hate us fans.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:44 p.m. CST

    Genosha sequel

    by superninja

    If you want to keep the mutant/outcast allegory as a central plot theme, why not have Magneto setting up Genosha as an olive branch from the UN and the X-Men coming to their aid when they are sabotaged/attacked from within and without by rogue mutants (such as Black Tom and Juggernaut, Gambit) working as double agents and mercenaries for hostile surrounding nations? The X-Men come to aid them and then everyone has to fight Dark Phoenix who decides that she'd like to wipe out reality and start over again?

  • June 13, 2005, 4:45 p.m. CST

    Michael Jackson not guilty on all charges!

    by the flashlight

    just thought x-men fans would want to know...

  • June 13, 2005, 4:45 p.m. CST

    See, your ideas make sense, Ribbons.

    by Devil'sOwn

    And btw, I strongly feel Cyke getting killed serves absolutely no purpose. You're right in that he has to be there t'see this thing through for good or for ill. Immediately after he would go off to set up house with Jean, or grieve. Er, depending on how it shakes down.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:47 p.m. CST

    Funkymonkey

    by Ribbons

    In a perfect world, that would be super cool, but I have to respectfully disagree with the perfection of your idea for a couple of reasons. 1) This "screenwriting thing" is easier said than done. Most of them, as lazy or trite as they can be, are probably better than most of us could be if we tried to brainstorm and frankenstein together a working script. 2) I think a couple of ideas kind of suck. For one, the introduction of sentinels. Giant killer robots are sure cool and all, but where the hell would they come from? Out of nowhere the government would just "commission" 50-foot tall, flying, talking, self-aware, mutant "sensing" destructoids with little blaster thingees in their hands? Or at least something similar to that? There has to be a reasonable build-up to that sort of thing. Discussion of developing technology. A dialogue between the president and congress, and mutant diplomats, about a move so drastic. Even for a "comic book movie," that stretches plausibility. Also think we should cool it with the "this character should make an appearance..." stuff, which won't happen any time soon. What happened to Nightcrawler? How about Pyro? How about Colossus? And a Pyro/Iceman showdown? You know,

  • June 13, 2005, 4:47 p.m. CST

    adambalm

    by oisin5199

    I never said Whedon was Shakespeare - you're confusing me with DaddyTones or somebody. I'm just saying that in terms of writing and emotional content, especially for that genre, the DarkWillow story on Buffy got it right, in what Joss freely acknowledged as an homage to the Dark Phoenix in X-Men.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:47 p.m. CST

    You can't kill off Cyke without some emotional buildup

    by superninja

    Wiping him out because the actor won't commit means you recast the actor. Especially when you're dealing with this particular storyline as others have mentioned. However, it's not like they're aren't about 1,000,000 other mutants out there we can focus on at this point.

  • June 13, 2005, 4:49 p.m. CST

    Dreak Pheonix saga vs. dark pheonix saga

    by thunderbird77

    K....still can't get over it....the batman and spiderman movie franchises are both honouring the stories made in the comics...why can't x-men do the same?... In the dark pheonix saga I found the most powerful point to be where jean is sentenced to death for her crimes as pheonix and all the x-men fail to win to save her life and at the end jean and cyclops are together....not cyclops fried at the beginning like in this horrible version...

  • June 13, 2005, 4:54 p.m. CST

    I don't know if I made that clear

    by Ribbons

    Going back and reading it, it was kind of poorly worded. I meant to say, we're all so excited to see who the creative staff is going to introduce next that we leave old characters who haven't been (in my opinion) properly fleshed out in the dust. And while I'm down for an Iceman/Pyro showdown, there HAS to be some sort of intervention on Iceman's behalf if you want to see the dude live.

  • June 13, 2005, 5 p.m. CST

    Fire vs. Ice

    by adambalm

    Fire melts ice, but then the ice turns to water, and quenches the fire, which..eh, fuck it.

  • Seriously. And that's saying an awful lot.

  • June 13, 2005, 5:04 p.m. CST

    Jean Grey and Anakin Skywalker

    by Sans Souci

    "Magneto..." "Yes, Jean?" "Where's...Scott?" "I'm afraid that in your anger...you killed him." "NOOOOOOOO!" And that's how you confuse Dark Phoenix with Darth Vader. Enough lame to go around for everyone. People often think that the Dark Phoenix Saga was all about Jean. Not so. It was about her AND Scott, the choices they made, their love, and what it did to both of them. Jean had to choose whether or not to live on as a goddess or end her life as a mortal, while Scott had to choose which one to save, the woman he loved or the entire universe. Jean killing Scott completely destroys the whole story. How can there be any way back for her after killing not only her lover but apparently also her mentor(s)? You don't make Jean into a tragic hero but just another misguided lost soul lashing out at everything, heedless of the results. Sigh.

  • June 13, 2005, 5:12 p.m. CST

    They're killing off Marsden to bring in Michael Biehn

    by Dannychico

    I'm convinced.

  • June 13, 2005, 5:19 p.m. CST

    punched at a screening?

    by LHombreSiniestro

    Is that a true story? What screening was it? Or were you just predicting what WILL happen?

  • June 13, 2005, 5:28 p.m. CST

    Misdirected frustration at Halle

    by MachinaMan

    There are a quite a few threads here attacking Halle Berry, and I am not quite getting what they have to do with Fox (seemingly) screwing up the X-men franchise. First, she can demand whatever she wants. In fact, is she weren't then her agent needs to be fired because last time I checked that's their job. Now let's be clear, that's not the same as getting whatever it is she is trying to get, but I find it odd that such criticism comes when it is an African-American female being all that she can be, but not when other people do so. Second, she is a better actor than most. As pretentious as I consider the Academy Awards, not everyone can deliver a performance deserving of one, so those that critize her acting abilities, put up or shut up. Illustrate how someone else could do better. I suspect that if Bryan Singer had prepared a greater role for Halle, she would have given performance proportional to that. And third, Catwoman was crap, but the greatest criticism that you can put on Halle Berry is that she accepted the role. She didn't write it, didn't direct it, didn't do the horrific costume design, so why is it being treated as if she did? And finally, there are those infantile posters out there that only in their wet dreams could have someone as gorgeous as Halle Berry interested in them, and who express their frustration in racist and

  • June 13, 2005, 5:34 p.m. CST

    but hugh jackman said

    by Krangelus

    Jackman said, "It got to be a roller-coaster ride there, but I wasn't worried because the script is so strong. ... Brett has come in with a lot of enthusiasm and full understanding of the franchise." from scifiwire. i dont know who to believe.

  • June 13, 2005, 5:38 p.m. CST

    Thunderbirds Death!

    by thunderbird77

    Thunderbird was the first mutant to die.. but at least he died saving the x-men and wasn't a core member let alone the team leader!!!!!...

  • June 13, 2005, 5:39 p.m. CST

    MachinaMan

    by aheartapart

    Nice to see we have a Halle Berry apologist on board to inject race into the equation. The reason many, if not most, fanboys harbor such animosity towards Halle Berry is because the contempt she had (has) for the franchise and comic book films in general. Not to mention her focus, some say obsession, with getting a bigger part when she should be worrying about the overall quality of the film. Pray tell Halle, why the hell should you get a bigger part when your performances in the two films have been mediocre at best. Lest we forget her amazing disappearing accent from the first film. In short, fanboys rag on Halle Berry because she seems like a condescending and arrogant cunt and not because she's hot or black. The funny thing about the race card is that it's always dealt from the bottom of the deck. Don't forget that.

  • June 13, 2005, 5:39 p.m. CST

    I bet Hugh Jackman. . .

    by JCubedz

    said similair things about Vanhelsing

  • June 13, 2005, 5:41 p.m. CST

    NOW I AM GLAD FOX DIDN'T HIRE ME LAST WEEK

    by bubcus

  • June 13, 2005, 5:42 p.m. CST

    "Being all that she can be..."

    by Ribbons

    Oh merciful heavens, the race card is thrown down onto the table.

  • June 13, 2005, 5:43 p.m. CST

    BTW...

    by MachinaMan

    Cyclops is definitely not the X-Men (which is probably why they are the 'X-Men' and not 'X-Man'. That's the whole point of an ensemble: No one person makes it complete.

  • June 13, 2005, 5:45 p.m. CST

    The mutant cure element is such a damn joke

    by Mr.TambourineMan

    Didn't we see that last year in SHREK 2??? As for the rest of the story, I agree that there may be some good moments in store when the movie is eventually released, but I pray that they give the script a last minute overhaul and ditch that stupid mutant cure shit before it mind fucks the fans. I also hope that Wolverine does not wind up being pussy-whipped like the review implies.

  • June 13, 2005, 5:45 p.m. CST

    The "original" X-Men, and killing Professor X

    by Ivan_Mtl

    While I will agree that the plot is very uninspired and derivative, and that killing Professor X is probably the studio's way of saving money for any future sequels (by eliminating Patrick Stewart's hefty salary), I will say that I do like the idea of an X-Men film that will feature all of the ORIGINAL X-Men as created by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee - especially since my favorte issues of the comic book series were the incredible Roy Thomas/Neal Adams run (which also featured a fabulous Don Heck fill-in issue guest starring Sunfire). Professor X has "died" before in the comic books, so I have no problem with that. In fact, wouldn't it be interesting to see a reformed Magneto lead them for a while? Maybe Mystique's fate will somehow be responsible for his change in attitude? Anyway, whatever happens, one thing is certain... X-Men 3 will still make a lot of money for Fox because it is one franchise that is completely idiot-proof. Still, I would have preferred another director. :(

  • June 13, 2005, 5:52 p.m. CST

    so f'in wrong

    by JSheaStanley

    Moriarity, I can't even begin to tell you how wrong it is to for you to so blithely compare genre filmmakers and a studio head to the horror of the Holocaust and the crimes against humanity the Nazis committed. You need to dial down the overinflated sense of purpose you guys attribute to "the art of film". I'm guessing you're about my age, early to mid-thirties. You ought to know better. You ignorant fuck.

  • June 13, 2005, 5:54 p.m. CST

    It's the end of the X-franchise as we know it...

    by Zardoz

    ...and I don't feel fine. What a load of crap! You just DON'T kill off so many lead characters in one movie: it's asinine! Marsden not available? Fine. Just don't have him in the movie, but don't kill him off, ESPECIALLY when it's Jean Grey doing the killing. In the comics, Cyclops was absent from the team for a long time following the death of Jean, so explain his absence that way, not by murdering him; it's just lazy writing. And killing Prof. X, also? Well, that sounds a little more dramatic, but ultimately a futile and stupid exercise. There's so much more to be gained by keeping Xavier alive and intact for future storylines where the character is INDISPENSABLE. This is really a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. As to Storm becoming the team leader, I think that's cool for the character, but NOT the actress. I never cared for Halle in the part. I would much rather see someone like Gabrielle Union or Aiysha Tyler playing Storm. (And NOT Angela Basset; great actress, but sorry, too old) Smart, strong actresses for a strong character. And if Storm is the new leader, give her a MOHAWK! And she and Logan should be at each other's throats for the top spot, NOT dancing between the sheets together. There should be a real conflict between the two of them over who's got the best skills to lead the team. (And we all know Storm's the best candidate for taking charge, she'll just have to prove herself) Finally, I'm disappointed that the plot does seem to be a re-hash of elements of the first two films. I really wanted to see the Hellfire Club/Dark Phoenix storyline, but that may not be happening at all. The main point here is this: don't kill off characters that are VITAL and ESSENTIAL to the story. An X-universe without Cyclops and Prof. Xavier is NOT one that I'm interested in paying money to see...

  • June 13, 2005, 6 p.m. CST

    FF will suck and blow at the same time!

    by Zardoz

    Anyone see the cast whoring themselves on the MTV movie commercial awards? PAINFUL to watch. That movie's gonna be DOA at the box office and there'll be no one to blame but the meddling, know-nothing suits...

  • June 13, 2005, 6:02 p.m. CST

    Not about the actors playing the roles

    by docfalken

    To me the issue isn't about getting rid of characters because the studio can't keep Patrick Stewart or any of the other castmembers. Personally the characters are above the actors who portray them. Yes, it does make a difference to have Hugh Jackman be an outstanding Wolverine, but you don't get rid of Wolvie if Jackman decides that he deserves more than the rest. We love these characters and their detailed interesting stories. Heck, Michael Keaton would be a great Wolverine.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:07 p.m. CST

    aheartapart

    by MachinaMan

    Interesting. One is an 'apologist' when you draw attention to people who attack others needlessly? I could call names as well, but what's the point, besides lowering the discussion (as if that were possible) and myself. I injected race? I have you read some of the posts that relate to Halle Berry? If the first mention of ethnicity (we're all human, so I don't define people as different 'races' since, except for superficial differences, we are all the same) that you have read came from me, then you're pretty new to these boards (and this particular posting, for that matter). You mention "fanboys harbor such animosity towards Halle Berry is because the contempt she had (has) for the franchise and comic book films in general. " but site no examples of her 'contempt'. Where is the 'contempt'? You seem to imply that you have evidence of this, but don't mention it, so don't hold it against me if I assume that there's nothing to mention. You know, that little thing called evidence? Could you also find me an an actor concerned "with the overall quality of the film" more than their own individual careers because I am not sure that they exist. Some may make their ambitions more obvious than others, but I suspect human nature is going to make a person, no matter who they are, concerned more about their own affairs first. So, if you are going to challenge something that I write

  • June 13, 2005, 6:08 p.m. CST

    Pheonix

    by Sweeper Jones

    Dark Pheonix should really be the most important part of this movie. Pheonix is supposed to kill a planet of billions, not just a couple of mutants. I want to see that battle where the X Men get there asses handed to them by those kickass aliens.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:09 p.m. CST

    Childe Roland and Ol' One Eye

    by MasterWhedon

    That something-close-to-a-treatment you posted up there sure is pretty interesting. A few holes to be plugged, but probably not as many as in the official script. I just very much wish they'd get Cyclops right in this film. He's clearly gotten the shaft in terms of screen time and character development in the past two, and killing him now would just be a waste. Develop Phoenix for two films. THEN have him die, if you must. Or, shit, here's a kicker, DON'T have him die! Have JEAN die and then bring in Emma to warm the man's heart! Now THAT I'd get excited about.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:11 p.m. CST

    Correct me if I'm wrong...

    by adambalm

    It's been since the theatrical run since I've seen X-2 but can someone explain to me how a 'mutant cure' serum is derivitive of the last movie? The only thing that comes to mind is that Stryker mentioned that years ago he tried to get Professor X to cure his son. To say that this is derivative is a fucking stretch to say the least. Yes, the 'rhyming' sequences with Beast in the White House and the fact that we have a villain trying to cure his son, yes you could make an argument that that's derivative. But a mutant cure serum as the film's mcguffin (while done in the comics) has not been done in the movies before and isn't so fucking bad.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:12 p.m. CST

    It's pretty obvious who the Other two are Who DIE.

    by Atomica

    Juggernaut and Mystique. Juggie is just another henchman and just as Sabre and Deathstrike did, will die in Act 3. Mystique becomes human and probably dies while still helping the mutant cause. At least that's what I think. Who knows, maybe it's Xavier and Magneto. But Rothman would have to be a fucking retard to do so. Wait HE IS a Fucking Retard. Okay, then everyone dies. The Serum from Leech becomes the Lagacy Virus and Every mutant dies. Except Wolverine because his healing factor keeps it at bay. Wow. Now i'm depressed about this franchise; Thank God Batman and Supes are gonna r0xX0rz.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:12 p.m. CST

    marvel movies

    by whatyoufear

    i'll tell you what kills movies: comfort. the people in charge of getting a movie made put out a film, it does good. use that money to put out a sequel, it does even better than expected! this is where the comfort level reaches its peak. this is where the suits think they can get away with anything and churn out a decent movie that, in reality, is half-assed and trite bullshit. i am not putting my money into these peoples' pockets. kiss my ass, marvel. i've known these characters too long to pay you to watch you fuck them up on the big screen and PAY you to do it.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:13 p.m. CST

    And Ribbons is right...

    by MasterWhedon

    ...about development being hard work. HARD work. It takes a lot to get all the notes right and please ravenous SOBs like you, me and the next guy. Especially with such a hot property. I like what's original in here (for the most part), but not the stuff that's a retread.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:13 p.m. CST

    what i meant to say

    by whatyoufear

    was i'll netflix this and not return it.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:17 p.m. CST

    Captain_Walker

    by MachinaMan

    Second poster who does not seem to read AICN posts. Do you actually mean to say that the first mention of ethnicity was in my post? Interesting. And since you so clearly so enlightened, how about informing me as to the issue (I am assuming that you're referring to Halle Berry)?

  • June 13, 2005, 6:19 p.m. CST

    it's time to stop this nonsense.

    by Vncentfilmerset

    let's say no to a rushed production , and Ratner!http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?LbX3

  • June 13, 2005, 6:21 p.m. CST

    COOLEST POTENTIAL MOMENT...

    by MasterWhedon

    ...would be after Mystique loses her powers, when she sees Magneto for the first time. If he's slightly whacked out BUT TRUE TO HIS CHARACTER, it'd be great to see him snuff her out while in fuckin' tears. THAT would be a great moment.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:22 p.m. CST

    MachinaMan

    by Ribbons

    "Considering what she was given to work with, I think she did pretty good." The point is that she's threatened to jump the X-Men ship simply because her character has, to this point, been underutilized. I actually can understand that. I'm a shameless fan of the X-Men, but she's an actress, and she shouldn't be beholden to the things that I consider important. That said, she happily took the part in 'Catwoman,' a script that everyone knew sucked who read Internet scoop sites so I'm sure everyone in Hollywood knew as well, with "poor character material to work with," simply so that she could be a star. Again, even though that seems incredibly egotistical to me, it's her prerogative. But the thing is that fanboys do resent her for it, because she's rocking the boat with a pretty successful movie franchise while helping usher cinematic abortions like 'Catwoman' to the big screen as a counterpoint. In addition, the massive bombs that were 'Gothika' and 'Catwoman' (which if anything made MORE money than it should have because people wanted to see just how bad it was; for further examples of this phenomenon check out the Special Edition 'Showgirls' DVD) prove that her starring power isn't necessarily all that valuable in the first place, yet Fox seems to be tripping over themselves in order to accomodate her, or at the very least giving her a juicy role at the expense of others and of the story in order to keep her on board. This is where the negativity comes from. Not because she's "[half] African-American." I don't agree with some arguments and I also would be fine with her taking the reins as active leader of the X-Men, but not in the way they've set-up.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:26 p.m. CST

    You know the best way to handle this?

    by MattCG

    When the film comes out, find a spoilerish review of it, find out if they really did this, then download the film for free. The continue to do the same with ever 20th Century Fox film for the rest of the year. If this is true, this is what I'll do and swear to God, I'll bootleg every Fox movie I can and make them available for anyone who wants them.

  • god, people are so damn stupid.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:27 p.m. CST

    Michael Jackson, Not Guilty

    by Doc_Strange

    "HEE-HEE, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!"

  • June 13, 2005, 6:31 p.m. CST

    You f-ing can't kill Xavier! It's just wrong!

    by -guyinthebackrow

    And, you fucking can't kill Cyclops! That's fucking wrong, too. Jesus 'titty-fucking' Christ! I wouldn't mind if you killed one or two of the kids. It would be sad and it would fuck with the adults, but you can't kill Prof. X. That's insane. You can kill Mystique, except she's been one of the coolest characters. So that's kinda moronic. AND... you better start the credit sequence with another Xavier voice-over. It's called continuity, fuckers! And, you better end with someone giving a voice-over. This shit is just idiotic. And, I wasn't going to see FF anways, but now I'm REALLY not going to see it.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:33 p.m. CST

    MachinaMan missing the point

    by bryce

    The last thing I want is for this to end up being a racial issue, believe me. You can apologize all you want to, but she accepted a role as a starring vehicle for herself, that had nothing to do with the character (Catwoman in this case) as it appears in the comics. That movie was made in the vein of Batman and Robin, let's be honest. My issue is that she laments that as a black actress (her words) she has to take a role form a *gasp!* comic book movie. I am a black man that appreciates comics as an art form, and it frustrates me that someone would make race an issue, and then when the movie is a hit, try and wrestle as much control of the film as possible.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:38 p.m. CST

    DamntheTorpedoes, Master Whedon, and my grammar

    by Ribbons

    DamntheTorpedoes: Indeed it is. Check out IMDb.com for proof. Master Whedon: Thank you for the kind words. As to your dream scene, I think it could be cool too if handled well, and I actually thought that the scooper was implying Magneto deep-sixed Mystique in their review, but that seems to come in conflict with the amount of people that die, so maybe not. Also, sorry to everyone for my disgusting grammar. Sometimes I get discombobulated. Forgiveness, please.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:39 p.m. CST

    How to fix this movie

    by TROMA

    There are several good concepts in this movie. The origin of Angel seems pretty damn good. (Could look very biblical or at least Like Icarus flying past the sun) I have no problem with the death of cyclops and I like the way they've handled it. The death of Professor X could work as well. Let's face it-he's almost too powerful a mutant and he's already been made to be the key plot element of the last film. Plus with him out of the way it really leads to the X-men being underdogs and makes their lives much more chaotic. I would make Wolverine the leader of the group for this movie-before you go apeshit this would work-why-because the group is compromised mostly of teenagers and they would look up to him-you already have great back up story from the first two films-Rogue would support him as well as Iceman from the sequel this guy was there for them. Of he'd be unsuited for the task and at the end of the film this could lead to him cracking up or just giving the reigns to a more suitable leader-which would segway beautifully into the Wolverine spinoff. Get rid of Halle Berry-catwoman-has left to much bad taste and creates a $ ceiling for this film-people don't want to see her in comic movies anymore and her contract should be removed. The golden Gate bridge idea could be done specatucarly, however I'm concerned that this locale was recently used in the Hulk movie. I know they want to have a mutant jail basically a converted Alcatraz but it seems a little redundant. They have to totally kill the de-mutant serum though. That is horrible. No way around it. How about Dark Phoenix creates such a problem that even though it's vanquieshed at the end. The Gov't goes through with the Sentinel program robots that can scan the mutant gene through peoples' retna and then if the mutant is hostile fry them. This could be explained as way to break up the "mutant cells" and put them on the run to minimize the danger. These are just suggestions. Let me know what you guys think.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Better story out of my ass...

    by Neighbor Jim

    After Magneto's attempt to kill all humans in X2, governments around the world are even more frightened by mutants. Some of them realize that the best defense against a mutant is another mutant. Nations begin assembling mutant mini-armies, paying them like mercenaries, or forcing them by grabbing their families, whatever. Magneto is working for one of them, (Genosha maybe?), as a mutant general, biding his time and gathering some very powerful mutants to him with the nation's lucrative contracts. It isn't long before those nations realize that a handful of mutants can level the field against their neighbors, or even a world superpower. Wars begin to break out with mutant soldiers fighting conventional armies, and mutant forces. In America, worry grows at the instabilty of the world, and the threat of being attacked by a mutant force working for a foreign government, or hell, a terrorist organization. The problem is the government and the people will not allow mutants to join the military. What is the president to do? Along comes a juicy government contract for the ultimate anti-mutant weapon, and the winning design just happens to be a giant ass-kicking robot. Now America doesn't have to worry about a foreign threat of mutants. It doesn't take long for the government to turn their eye towards the domestic mutant "problem". With all that's going on in the world, total mutant registration has enough momentum to be passed into law. Here come the Sentinels, at the same time Magneto overthrows the government he's being working for with a mutant uprising. This only fuels anti-mutant paranoia, and the Sentinels are unleashed on America's mutants. Meanwhile the world community refuses to stand for an all-mutant country, knowing with enough mutants at his disposal, Magneto could make a serious grab for power. A conventional coalition force is assembled and sent at Magneto, only to be destroyed because most nations no longer trust their mutant soldiers, now that they have a free country to defect to. The only option left are the Sentinels, and America sees a hell of an economic boost coming their way if they start selling Sentinels to every nation in the world. The government figures a presentation of their new weapon's abilities on Magneto's country will go a long way towards getting customers all over the globe. Xavier and crew, running from the Sentinels in America, know Magneto is the one guy who doesn't have to worry all that much about a giant metal robot. Magneto sees a chance to save his mutant people singlehandedly. The guy seems to be able to build devices, so why not one that can amplify his own power, rendering Sentinels useless? Xavier knows if Magneto repels the Sentinel onslaught he will have secured the loyalty of the mutants living under him, and will see a chance to start his mutant vs. human war. The X-men fly off to Magneto's country to stop him, not only to prevent Magneto's armageddon, but to prove to the world that mutants can police themselves. Battles ensue, mutants fighting sentinels, mutants fighting X-men, X-men fighting Sentinels, fanboys ruin their pants. Magneto is stopped, but right at the end The Sentinels ,now a worldwide phenomenon, are shown to be more than mutant-police. The corporation that created them unlocks the hidden programming that allows them and only them to control the machines, and suddenly the world is taken hostage. Bam, there's X4, mutants saving the humans from themselves and finally finding acceptance.

  • June 13, 2005, 6:48 p.m. CST

    bryce

    by MachinaMan

    OK, so she thinks

  • June 13, 2005, 6:52 p.m. CST

    FIRST, bitches!

    by DAS JANKE

    eat it. EAT IT! oh, and this movie is going to suck so badly... why can't they bring in some big badass baddies like apocalypse? it's really time for it. i'll miss cyclops... he was always my favorite.

  • June 13, 2005, 7:01 p.m. CST

    cow-tow'ing to Halle Berry

    by riskebiz

    Why is it that every time Halle Berry demands more screen time for Storm, the studio suits listen? I'd much rather Storm be recast than to make her so central to the series. Wolverine hooking up with Storm? Only if Halle Berry demanded it. Storm should be the one who gets atomized instead of Cyclops and Prof. X. It is a big mistake for them to die in such a wasted manner. Cyclops death especially sounds wasteful and pointless. It feels like death scenes put in to be "edgy". Sounds more like an idiot in charge not knowing and not giving a damn about the Xmen.

  • June 13, 2005, 7:04 p.m. CST

    MachinaMan

    by bryce

    MachinaMan, it seems that you are hell-bent on using generalities to make your point. Yes, you are right, we as comic book fans face having our beloved stories and characters bastardized every which way by people that do not understand the art form. Yes, Halle Berry is not atypical in her attitudes. That is why sites like AICN exist! So that we can fight that attitude, so that quality movies can be made about these great characters. I am not out to get Halle Berry. She is part of the problem. As is Tom Rothman, Jon Peters and Joel Shumacher. It does appear that Halle Berry demanding that she have

  • June 13, 2005, 7:23 p.m. CST

    You are correct, sir.

    by riskebiz

    Whoever it was here who lamented the fact that Fox seems to be handing the franchise to Halle Berry on a silver platter because of her demands is absolutely right. I'm beginning to think that Brett Ratner was hired as a fallguy and it hasn't registered with him yet because he doesn't have his ear to the ground because he knows the fans hate him anyway. He's the perfect patsy for Rothman.

  • June 13, 2005, 7:28 p.m. CST

    General Ranting

    by TheBri

    ~Begin Rant I want to know what the fuck is wrong with developing plots that were actually used in the comic? Books are developed into film with only minor modification of the story. Why in hell can't they do the same with Comics? Anna Paquin = Great Actress. The Rogue of the XMen movies is NOTHING like Rogue. She is the most extreme example of the mutation of the XMen in their transference from print to film. Why can't they just use the stories as originally written? God Loves Man Kills would make a wonderful base for a film script. Instead they rape the Phoenix Saga, throw in bullshit modifications to wonderfully conceived characters and expect us to accept it. The truly sad part.... we do accept it. Why haven't the original writers of XMen storylines been consulted? They know the characters best, better then any scriptwriter could. I'm afraid of what will happen to the Wolverine movie after reading this. ~End Rant~

  • June 13, 2005, 7:38 p.m. CST

    Would write long comment., but so very bored...

    by Gordonsalive

    Anyone else think the age of apocalypse comics were the coolest in the series? If they're going to mess it up at least they could give us Sinister or Apocalypse. Megalomaniacs say the damndest things.

  • June 13, 2005, 7:41 p.m. CST

    Showing my age...

    by Devil'sOwn

    Jesus wept, this thing is a veritable hornet's nest today... Anyway, I just wanted to clarify, I know Angela Bassett's not the suitable age to play Storm... any more. I saw Rosario Dawson mentioned once, and the way X-Men have a habit of getting killed and reborn, she'd be a welcome addition.

  • June 13, 2005, 7:54 p.m. CST

    Why X-Talkbacks take so much time to read through

    by OptimusPrimeTime

    ...half the space is filled by fanboys pitching "their" version of the movie (which is seldom original, so much as a rehash....err...staying true to the source material) and others complaining about the casting decisions made in the first movie. Honestly, I'm less concerned with the Rattner hire than the script (but admittedly the only films of his I've seen are the Rush Hour films, which are some of my favorite Jackie Chan flicks). Killing Cyclops off would be a mistake; as a Cyke fanboy, I could deal with his being a second-tier X-character because Summers doesn't bring a lot of drama to the mix (nor should he). I'd rather see an X-movie wherein Cyke has hung up the leather suit and out of the picture than seeing him killed off. I'm admittedly surprised to hear about the Wolvie/Storm "relationship," since I kinda thought X2 was setting her up with Nightcrawler. All I ask of the production team: don't do anything stupid. (...and I'm starting to worry that may be asking too much.)

  • June 13, 2005, 8:03 p.m. CST

    Brett Ratner now is the least of our worries it seems ROFL --- h

    by Spacesheik

    first of all guys, you passionate about x-men - thats good, but keep in mind 3 things: 1. halle berry wanted her role to be expanded from xmen 1; you cant blame her, she didnt do shit in the first film, at no point in time did she ever state that she wanted to lead the x men 2; brett ratner is gonna shoot the script as is and quickly to make the memorial 2006 deadline, the chances of the script being modified after shooting begins = zero and 3; rothman might be a formidable force but do not underestimate lauren schuler donner and the rest of the production team - they are passionate about the work and dont want any fuck ups.

  • June 13, 2005, 8:35 p.m. CST

    No CENSORING SPOILERS PLEASE. IT"S AICN not MSNBC We're prep

    by flipster

    just trying to be nice like that hearty Lohman fellow. Let's here three cheers for the man who will be saving us all a $10 admission fee when this total piece of crap comes out. Fox - the poison just keeps coming. Frankly Blade 3 kinda made wonder what was up at Marvel and now I know - nothing but merch. Hey zombies at Fox - yopu can only sell merch if people think the film rocks. this will lose cash - or we can hope.

  • June 13, 2005, 8:37 p.m. CST

    that shoulda read Rothman not lohman (thought the latter applies

    by flipster

  • June 13, 2005, 8:45 p.m. CST

    BTW doesnt Fantastic Four also have a Golden Gate bridge action

    by Spacesheik

  • June 13, 2005, 9:03 p.m. CST

    Storm's death

    by eule

    So doesn'Halle Berry wanna be seen as a serious actress, then why does she keep bothering us by appearing in comic book movies? How about giving storm a Shakspearian death right at the start of x3 and use the money they saved on Halle Berry to do a decent dangerroom scene? At least 2 reasons to go and watch that crappy movie

  • June 13, 2005, 9:12 p.m. CST

    x2 sucks x2 sucks x2 sucks

    by angrykirby.tk

    x2 sucked what the hell is wrong with all you. did you close your eyes and imagine a good movie when you were "watching" x2. it sucked horribly

  • June 13, 2005, 9:16 p.m. CST

    womans perspective...save cyclops!!!

    by mimic

    Hey, first I have no problem with an extended roll for Hailey Berrys, storm.... although I think she needs to be a LOT tougher than what we've seen .. much more of an amazonian tough kick-ass type. Also the Jean grey as pheonex should be great...as the villain...so more women doing their thing is great. I'm also a comics fan and I find nuking cyclops cheap...he's like, jean greys love of her life....whats up with zapping him out....he shouldn't save her or anything but c'mon (maybe she should save him somehow instead!). Besides marsdens cute in a pretty boy way.. and I kinda dug him in the last 2 and actually thought he needed more screentime not less!!!!!....I think if he's being cashed in for personal reasons the people at the top should get over themselves... its not about u people its about us fans!!!....taking out magneto...and/or prof x also has me puzzled....although theres tons of mutants in the comics.....yah know why theres still magneto , prof x, and cyclpos??.. it's because they are 3 core reasons the comic is any good...magneto the ultimate villain (once prof x's best friend)..xavier is more than a mentor but is the x-men really as its his show.. and cyclpos is the ultimate leader....even if somefind him a "boyscout " or boring.... look not all of them should be tragic like wolverine or mixed up like pyro......gimme a break moriarty!!!. If these actors can't make another film... get new people.. x-men without professor x,cyclops is like cereal without the milk!!!!!!!. peace.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:33 p.m. CST

    am i reading this right....

    by amievil

    we see a human Hank in X2 now in X3 not only do we see a blue hairy beast, but we see him as a blue hairy beast well before the time of x2??? obviously there's so many other things wrong with this that i can't even comment on all of them, but wtf....lets at least have some character continuity between the movies...

  • June 13, 2005, 9:50 p.m. CST

    modifications and adaptations

    by oisin5199

    Things are going to change when you adapt a novel to the screen, let alone 40 years of a comic book. I don't mind modifications if they stay true to the spirit of the comic and the spirit of the character, and there's a good reason. I thought the Rogue change worked, because she embodied the fear and loneliness of a young mutant who couldn't connect with the world. That's essentially who Rogue is in the comic book. Yes, in the movie, she wasn't evil first or with Mystique's brotherhood, or had the powers of Ms. Marvel, but that just wouldn't work in a single movie that's trying to be more realistic. Killing Cyclops is NOT true to the character or X-Men. There's changes that serve the story and the film, and then there's cheap copouts. Like Hollywood stunt casting (I'm looking at you Halle, Keanu, Jessica, Bennifer). But again, I will wait and see.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:54 p.m. CST

    I want Havok to show up at some point and interact with his brot

    by Big Bad Clone

    Have her just destroy a hiker or some shit. It gets the point across and leaves Cyclops in the picture. Hell, have her parents instead of Professor X. It would prove how insane the Pheonix is.

  • June 13, 2005, 9:56 p.m. CST

    Character continuity? HA ha ha ha!

    by Ribbons

    You ask the impossible, amievil. Yes, the one merciful thing that they did with both 'X-Men' and 'X2' was leave a lot of character with strangely familiar powers to fanboys without names (the Multiple Boys and Teleporter kid and Fire-Conjurer in 'X-Men,' the Girl Who Could Walk Through Walls in 'X2') so that if they wanted to go back and make them major characters (Nightcrawler, Pyro, Shadowcat) they weren't beholden to the original characters or actors. Unfortunately when you see an erudite, pro-mutant spokesman named Hank McCoy front and center in one scene in 'X2' and then have a blue, furry Hank McCoy, erudite (and blue and furry) pro-mutant spokesman some 15 years earlier in 'X-Men 3,' you're basically asking the audience to let you get away with re-writing history. Doesn't help that the guy who they got as Hank McCoy in 'X2,' while no Kelsey Grammer, is a bonafide actor and not just a glorified extra. And the people who are talking about salaries are right. Something I failed to take into account earlier is that certain characters may be biting it to make room for other actors' paychecks, especially if they see those characters as filling the same niche ("Scott and Jean were our 'date movie' ticket? Fuck it, we'll get rid of James and give Hugh and Halle a romance subplot"). While I don't know if that's actually what's going on, it makes a whole lot of sense, and like most everything else being commented on in this article and TalkBack, it's monstrously greedy and shortsighted.

  • (even if you don't mean it...) And F4 destroy the Brooklyn Bridge, not the Golden Gate bridge. You know...New York vs. San Francisco.

  • June 13, 2005, 10:09 p.m. CST

    boycot it

    by tsnatch

    just tell every one u know not to c it start a campaighn show them corparate fucks were tired of them fucking up characters and storys we love , if they aint gonna treat the material with respect dont make the fucking movie we should never have another batman and robin or alien vrs predator lets teach these morons

  • June 13, 2005, 10:13 p.m. CST

    Moriarty is keeping this site alive.

    by Fantomex

    I raise my glass, heres to AICN being relevant again.

  • June 13, 2005, 10:50 p.m. CST

    Wow, that sucks.

    by NGrey

    Fox should bring singer and co. back even just as consultants. Or even better wait until singer is free of superman. Get rid of ratner, what he did with AvP was horrible.

  • June 13, 2005, 10:57 p.m. CST

    What? Jacko got off? With this legal system? THE HELL YOU SAY!

    by axelfoley

    It's very reassuring that as long as you live in this country, fame and money will keep the law from looking the other way while you act evil and vile. Way to go America, way to fuck up our reputation even more. Could the trial have been any more bullshit? The jurors said they were bothered by the child's mother. I was pretty bothered by their fucking stupidity.

  • I'm being serious. I think we should send this fucker a message in the only way he'll let it sink into his goddamn brain, by not seeing 'The Fantastic 4' upon it's release. This is the only way these people will ever learn, folks. Either that or putting together a hit team to take these fuckers out which I may consider doing. 'BATMAN AND ROBIN' was hurt in one part due to the known consenses prior to it's release that it was a piece of shit, and you cannot deny that we as a community of fellow film-lovers had a role, however big or small, in that. Laugh all you want, berate me if you must, but on the July 8 weekend I will not be seeing 'The Fantastic 4'. And if by some reason I feel like changing my mind at some point, then I will buy a ticket for another film. I have simply fucking had it with the den of leeches that is Hollywood and the ass-puppet lapdogs who work there. Who's with me?

  • June 13, 2005, 11:10 p.m. CST

    Childe Roland...

    by Nachokoolaid

    Great stuff. Hey, send this shit to Fox and have them get going on a script, and you have material for X-men 3 and a possibility for 4 and even 5. _________________________________that they'd kill off Cyclops early in this movie. But I thought they'd give the Prof a miss as being too obvious a martyr. Killing Cyclops is a weak way to free up space for other characters. The smarter thing to do would be to refer to him being off coping with Jean's loss. That way if you need him for a future film, you bring him back. While the parts of the story with Beast and Angel seem to be well handled, those are fleeting sequences in an otherwise ill-conceived story (at least by the sound of it). The Senitnels would've been the way to go here, with half of the remaining X-Team (Storm, Wolverine & Nightcrawler) being captured or otherwise incapacitated in the first encounter during act 1 and Prof. X calling Beast out of semi-retirement to shepherd a bunch of next genners (Colossus, Angel, Rogue, Iceman, Jubilee) on a mission to rescue them. Inside the holding facility, Nightcrawler escapes confinement and frees Wolverine and the two look for Storm. In process, they discover the Senitnel program is going to launch an unsanctioned all-out attack on the newly formed Island nation of Genosha - Magneto's safe haven for mutantkind (given as a concession by the UN after the events of X2 - something that can be touched on in the first act through a news report on TV in the background). Wolverine has Nightcrawler relay this info to the Prof., who tells Beast and his team of young'uns while Wolvie goes deeeper inside the complex to rescue Storm. Nightcrawler meets up with Beast's team and they all head to Genosha (with Professor X) to warn Magneto. Act three is the inevitable fight between the new X-Men and the new-and-improved Brotherhood (Mystique, Pyro, Avalanche, Blob and Gambit) which the Prof will ultimately put an end to by reasoning with Magneto. The two groups join forces for a big fight against the Sentinels. Back in the facility, Wolerine encounters and befirends young Shadowcat, who helps him find and rescue Storm using her phasing powers. Then he fights their way back out of the facility, finding and nearly killing the man behind the Sentinel project (Cameron Hodge) in the process. But Kitty gets him to not give into the rage. The new X-Men on Genosha beat the Sentinels, but at a terrible cost... lots of innocent mutant lives lost and Magneto apparently dead. His brotherhood vows vengeance, except for Gambit, who decides to return with the X-Men (he likes Rogue, y'see). After the dust settles, Beast turns down an offer by the Prof to stay on at the school because he's got a bigger job offer... as Secretary of Mutant Affairs. So Storm (now out of her coma) is named leader of the team and mention is made of Wolvie taking another leave. How do you end it? Turns out the whole thing was a recounting by Wolverine (you could actually have him do the voice over intro to the movie to bookend this) who has stopped to visit Cyclops on his way to Canada to do some soul searching (great setup for his spinoff). He asks Cyke to think about going back to help Storm, but Cyke says he's not ready. Wolvie rides off on his bike and Cyke goes to the lake where Jean died... then the movie ends with her shooting up out of the water and giving the "I am fire and life incarnate..." speech. But this isn't the absolute end. The absolute end is when Cameron Hodge morphs into Mr. Sinister and makes a call to an unseen entity on a secure line. "The pieces are in place, my Master. The weak have been culled and the fit have been made ready to face your final trial. What shall it be then, Lord Apocalypse? Famine? War? Pestilence?" The voice says there's been a change of plans. It appears now that, before the final test, mutantkind will face a trial by fire. That's how I'd do it, anyway. Sets up at least one, if not two sequels plus the spinoff.

  • June 13, 2005, 11:10 p.m. CST

    Huzzah?

    by Ribbons

    I don't know, I'm not going to join some boycott of 'Fantastic Four,' don't know whether or not I'll pay to see 'X-Men 3' yet. I DO disagree with the way Fox has handled it from a philosophical standpoint, so I kinda oughta, but if they salvage anything of a good movie out of it I guess it doesn't make it that much different from any other studio production.

  • June 13, 2005, 11:11 p.m. CST

    Scratch that

    by Ribbons

    "So I kinda oughta NOT," I meant to say.

  • June 13, 2005, 11:25 p.m. CST

    I have my midnight tickets for Begins!!!

    by andrew coleman

    I hope this movie makes at least 250 million in the box office so DC can laugh their asses off at Marvel who seemingly wants to loose money. All they will have left is Spider-man and god help them and us if Raimi leaves after 3 because you know they'll find some worthless asshole to make three more movies which will be horrible. I love the WB now for Constantine and now a good Batman. Thank you WB and DC, you've made it clear now that Fox and Marvel are a bunch of brainless assholes who don't care about making movies. I'm boycotting X3 right now and I don't care what anyone says about that because I am pissed off! Save X3 pleeease.

  • June 13, 2005, 11:25 p.m. CST

    Well, at least we have Jackman's Seed all over Wolverine...

    by DOGSOUP

    I think they're right too, this is a very versitile franchise and I think it can survive this....granted they get someone like Alex Proyas to do X4 and fix everything

  • June 13, 2005, 11:39 p.m. CST

    That sounds pretty AWFUL

    by wadew

    Yeah lets give Halle the spotlight. After all, the people CAME OUT IN DROVES FOR CATWOMAN!! Jesus Christ, let Halle leave if she wants. NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT STORM IN THESE MOVIES. Wolverine's the most popular character, you don't reduce him to Storm's sex slave. And you don't kill important characters for no apparent reason.

  • June 14, 2005, 12:07 a.m. CST

    Why isn't Storm getting killed off?

    by soccerjack

  • June 14, 2005, 12:13 a.m. CST

    by soccerjack

    That would make more sense than killing off Cyclops and Professor X(?!). Everyone knows what a shitty job Halle Berry has done as Storm, totally miscast. I thought for sure she would be one of the mutants to be killed off. How the hell can you kill off the man behing the X-men and keep the franchise going? Rothman pretty much sums up what's wrong with Fox and Hollywood. Way to go cocksucker. This story sounds so lame, lame, lame...Honestly, that is the BEST they could come up with? Give me a fucking break... BTW, I read a recent interview with Rattner and he sounds like a complete fucking moron, not too bright...

  • June 14, 2005, 12:14 a.m. CST

    ahs-hoooo

    by MimiRogers3rdNip

    Everyone in Hollywood knows Rothman is an asshole. Anyone who follows the workings in Hollywood knows Rothman is an asshole. Too bad that no one with any power will just come out and say it for all to hear. No burning bridges in H-Town. Except for Russell Crowe, who will set rivers on fire before the bridge can even be built. But then, he doesn't do that with studio execs. Kiss his ass and youre not in the wrong. So he's an asshole, too. So many assholes, no wonder the place stinks.

  • June 14, 2005, 12:19 a.m. CST

    Fuck Jackman, Fuck Avi Arad. They have failed us!

    by chien_sale

  • June 14, 2005, 12:19 a.m. CST

    FOX should be aware

    by FarSky

    Does anyone know of a way to contact 20th Century Fox Studios so that we can voice our anger at this horrible script? An address, an email...anything? I'm not going to delude myself into thinking it will do any good, but as a devoted X-fan, I feel an obligation to at least try to to stop this cinematic abortion.

  • June 14, 2005, 12:23 a.m. CST

    Huh?

    by chica

    I am getting a "are you sure you saw what you think you saw" feeling about this. Remember, if true, Moriarty said that the third act is not mentioned. I am of the mind that some things we have read here are not what we think they are. I don't think Mystique will now go off and live happily ever after now that she is no longer blue. Comic movies don't work like that. There must be something in the third act that changes that. Will she revert to blue again? Will the "cure" turn out to be something completely different? Is Cyke really gone? I wonder......I'm have to think that the third act is really holding a lot of twists, otherwise why haven't we had a hint of what is happening. We have blips and blurps here and there about certain characters, but, it all sounds strange to me. I don't know, but I think this will end up a lot differently than what we are seeing now.The reason I say this is because...with these two acts that were reviewed, what are they leading up to? What climax is in store for the film? Something, a lot of things actually, are missing. I see no build up to much of anything here. Just a bunch of plot points with no connection at all. I seem to be rambling, but something is bothering me and I can't put my finger on it. I think there is just a lot more that we are not seeing.

  • June 14, 2005, 12:25 a.m. CST

    Who wants to know the saddest part about this X3 thing?

    by X3isFucked

    I have never posted on this site before but this script review inspired me to show my disdain. The saddest part is that everyones SIMPLE script ideas from this talk back are better than what we are getting in X3. Kill Xavier? Who the fuck do you think you are? Hallie berrys shitty acting ass needs more time so you fucking kill XavieR? Heres the easiest way to write what should have been written... Use the morlock thing for the beginning, great way to open the film up. We see a new young character, Angel, harpooned by a marauder and injured. The X-Men arrive in just enough time to save his life. Jean comes back in full force as we expect, destroying just about everything she comes in contact with. just when mutant human relations are going well, Phoenix begins killing. Xavier, after failing to stop phoenix seeks aid in the help of a friend. One who knows Jean as well as he, and one who always warned him of the possibility of this explosion of power happening. Enter Hank McCoy. Congress member Henry Gyrich votes to push William Strykers (now dead, were only using his name) Project Wideawake. At the same time, someone is watching and studying this new found jean grey. Sentinels are created to combat Jean, now the X-Men must try to stop the phoenix without killing her and stop the sentinels at the same time. In the midst of this duel chaos.. someone comes forward to the X-Men. After realizing what he's done (assembling the marauders) Gambit reveals to the X-People who this "sinister" is. Gambit also reveals to Xavier that as scary as sinister is, he (sinister) answers to someone else. He also reveals Sinister meeting with another mutant, Magneto. We learn that Magneto, after seeing jean die in X2 feared Jeans resurection... believing that is she resurfaced the only way to stop her, and stop the mutant hunting sentinels from going into production would be to infect her with somthing that would kill her before she could cause chaos. Magneto went to sinister. Sinister created the legacy virus. In the conclusion to act III we see a number of drastic events. Magneto infect jean with the virus finally and kills her. Wolverine, going insane seeing Jean die again goes into an all out brawl with magneto. The end result is Magneto ripping the adamantium from logans bones. In a sentinel vs. x-men vs. brotherhood battle we end with the sentinels and the brotherhood defeated. Xavier fears magneto has unleashed somthing more complicated than jean on the mutant population (virus)and he goes so crazy after seeing Logans skelaton ripped out that he swipes Magnetos mind. Now with Wolverine out of commission and Jean dead the film ends with a new problem. Though the Sentinels and Brotherhood are now no more the Beast fears what exactly this virus is. Sinister still lurks in the shadows and we find the Angel is missing from the mansion. Still this whole time we dont know who Sinister has been answering to. X4 X-Men vs. Apocalypse, Sinister and Archangel while at the same time containing the legacy virus. I know my idea is rough but if the writers of X3 did somthing along these lines we would be treated to a hell of a film

  • June 14, 2005, 12:27 a.m. CST

    If this really is the movie, then it will bomb so very badly

    by Serious Black

    It sounds like a giant "Fuck You!" to the audience that made the first two films successful. I don't give a flying flip if they kill off the entire X-Men team, as long as it's in the service of a good story. But anyone who has seen X2 will instantly recognize the reheated leftovers that are being served up with this mess. It's the story, dipshits! The sad thing is that for every well-connected hack like Kinberg out there, at least 10 screenwriters with real talent and imagination are living on Mac and Cheese simply because they don't have an "in" into Hollywood. It really does look like it's the end of the Marvel era. Call me crazy, but I am still holding out hope for FF.

  • June 14, 2005, 12:47 a.m. CST

    Very depressing, to say the least.

    by Jordo

    The news about Ratner didn't let me down. But now, man. I'm pretty bummed out. I've always been a fan of the Cyclops character, so that sucks. But if they end up killing Professor Xavier and Magneto like I think they will, then I'm just about ready to wait 10 years until Christopher Nolan takes the reigns. How unfortunate that they'd give up two of the finest actors in this series. And putting the focus on Storm instead of Wolverine? Come on. It's like making a Batman movie about Poison Ivy. Hey, wait a minute...

  • June 14, 2005, 1:08 a.m. CST

    I don't know

    by Ribbons

    I like the Angel character as written. It actually feels right, if that makes sense. If I may spit into the ocean here and inject one of my "ideas" for what an 'X-Men 3' should have in it, it's Angel climbing out of his window to fly at the end, revelling in his powers. It's symmetrical and I think it gives the character's story some poetry. But if they actually want to deal with all that Archangel crap sometime in the future, I guess he'll still have to hate himself when this movie's over, which would rule that out. Meh. Sorry for the self-indulgence. "We'll see," or whatever. Also did it ever say Mystique willingly gave up her powers? Have to go back and check, I guess...

  • June 14, 2005, 1:12 a.m. CST

    FunkyMonkey

    by MaulRat

    I think your idea is at least constructive... no bashing, it's the onld saying "think you can do better?.. prove it!".. the idea sounds almost like the "supershadow" website that churned out the coolest parts of episode 3 and turned it from a meh fest to the first competent film George Lucas has made in the best part of 20 years.. maybe a script could be thought up here and spat out, geekdom in all its glory and sold to the highest bidder... but it will not happen mostly due to the fact that there are personalities who will try and ruin it regardless, people who's opinion differs just to get reactions, not because they believe what they're saying.. plus you'll always get differences of opinion and personality clashes here.. that's what open forum is all about, moviemack and co. prove that.. I think the preferred media would be an email in, post on website style of brainstorming.. that way none of the negative nelly's are heard anyway.. at least it's constructive.. I like it... nice work me ol' china.

  • June 14, 2005, 1:15 a.m. CST

    Cyclops

    by Chaka

    If this is true, what a horrible idea. Cyclops is the bond that holds the Xmen together. A big problem with the 1st 2 X movies was the lack of ensemble fighting with Cyke at the helm ... bad move to segment the fanbase

  • June 14, 2005, 1:16 a.m. CST

    Jackman and Robin!

    by JaeZion

    I thought about it all day, and yeah, no matter how much nostalgia I have for the FF, I gotta skip it. WILL NEVER GO TO SEE THE AFOREMENTIONED X-3. Fans have gotta hound Arad and Rothman whenever they appear in public, and need to get Marsden and Stewart's take on all of it. There's more people than we know checking all of this, and if it gets the right people's attention, the fans can get what they want. It can happen.

  • June 14, 2005, 1:28 a.m. CST

    and STOP POSTING YOUR OWN TREATMENTS!!!

    by JaeZion

    Move to cali. and get an agent.

  • June 14, 2005, 1:33 a.m. CST

    This movie is going to suck!

    by Angelus_420

    I can't believe that FOX thinks any part of this is worth filming. There is nothing about that review that gives any bit of hope for this movie IT'S ALL BAD! What a way to ruin a great series and you know that once this movie tanks it'll probably be a long time before we see another. Also if they are just going to use popular X-Men storylines they sould at least try and keep them true instead of distorting it to nothing.

  • June 14, 2005, 1:35 a.m. CST

    The cast of X-Men 2 had an "incident" wih Bryan Singer

    by Ezekiel

    Has anyone talked about this yet? There was a big standoff on X-Men 2 because Bryan Singer kept causing problems which came to a point when he missed a day of shooting and the crew and day ($$$) were wasted because Bryan had taken a drug one of his boyfriends had given him and was out for the count. Producer ended up telling Singer he had to clean the act up. Singer tried to get producer fired. producer got fired, except the cast said "if the producer goes then we go." So the producer stayed. Drama. check it out with your sources if it hasn't been talked about already. So, maybe both Rothman and Singer are both hard to deal with.

  • June 14, 2005, 1:41 a.m. CST

    Ezekiel

    by Ribbons

    Actually, I never heard that. But you know, Russell Crowe chucks telephones at hotel clerks and I still manage to tolerate his movies. It does make me see Bryan Singer in a different light though. And JaeZion, I sort of feel your pain with the treatments, although no one's making you read 'em. In my defense, I only posted one thing, and I already said screenwriting is tougher than most of us realize, but I think that thing that I posted seems like a perfectly good idea. I'd like to hear why it isn't anyway.

  • June 14, 2005, 1:51 a.m. CST

    Premiere Magazine May 2003...

    by JaeZion

    ...is the source of ezekiel's X-2 recollection, although I did not know that Singer, Harris, and Dougherty liked to hump each other, although one of them has a little tiny dog, right? Ribbons, you haven't got bad ideas, I'm with you. I just keep thinking big picture, EVERYONE who needs to be a part of the discussion, an intelligent, cohesive discussion. I stand behind my statement on treatments, with the digression that all one need say about what the script needs, "It's all in the comics..."

  • June 14, 2005, 1:57 a.m. CST

    Holy shit.

    by LightinthePiazza

    So, after years of reading and never talk-backing, this has made me sign the shit up. What. The. Fuck. Ok, so.. I love Hugh Jackman.. and honestly rooted for him in the first two films despite the fact that it really went against the comics to a degree. But I don't think Cyclops should die. Especially like that. And I can't imagine Jean being all like, "Oh, Scott. It's ok. I can control my new Goddess-like powers, no sweat!" Poof. Dead. That is the biggest cop-out for a character that we have seen over two films. That makes me angry. and having read the whole thingy.. It suggests that Xavier dies. Which also = dumb as crap. Seriously. We can make points.. and expand this film series without killing off extremely important characters. Also.. demutanize Mystique? COME ON. She is too important to the film franchise in my honest opinion. If she isn't somehow changed back into a mutant (Which.. maybe Magneto could since he sort of did it in the first one), then I will be uberpissed. It will suck if this stinker has to follow X2 which rocked my socks. and does Nightcrawler just disappear.. because Alan Cumming and Kurt Wagner = best things ever.

  • June 14, 2005, 2:19 a.m. CST

    Oh, and not to be too nitpicky

    by Ribbons

    This is more out of boredom than anything else, but I love how the first line of dialogue in the movie (as scripted) is "Warren, son, what are you doing in there?" I absolutely don't understand why people think we need the characters to vocalize their relationships to one another. I'm sure everyone in the movie theater would have been able to figure out that the old, concerned-looking dude knocking on the teenager's door was his father. Does anybody here who has children ever address them by name and then by "son" or "daughter" in the very same sentence?

  • June 14, 2005, 2:24 a.m. CST

    Also...

    by Ribbons

    ...it looks like I wasn't paying close enough attention the first time around. I complained about changing the President's stance on mutation in an earlier post, and although I still wish that the volatility of the presidential situation from the first two X-movies was (were?) still there, it seems like the reviewer's implying that there's a new president in the White House. So I can live with that.

  • June 14, 2005, 2:34 a.m. CST

    I've had time to think this over...

    by Nachokoolaid

    and I thought maybe I'd warm up to the ideas presented in this review, but I can't they're just TOO WRONG. Too out of character. Keep Angel and Beast the way they are, but don't have Storm take a bigger role. And don't kill any main characters. This is like Bond folks. it has amazing legs and will go on for 30-40 years of tentpole films for the studio if they don't fuck it up. If this films happens as is, you can forget 30-40 years because X3 will be the last one.

  • June 14, 2005, 2:36 a.m. CST

    That script FUCKING SUCKS

    by zabbadoo

    you don't fucking "demolecularize" Cyclops. especially not in a frigging throwaway scene like that. Hey people making the movie! You know how some of us say that Batman Begins is the first real Batman movie for us, and everything that came before doesn't count? MARK MY WORDS, THIS MOVIE, IF DONE TO THIS SCRIPT, WILL NOT COUNT.

  • June 14, 2005, 2:41 a.m. CST

    Man, that's bad fucking news...

    by kintar0

    Will the X-Franchise peak with numero dos?

  • June 14, 2005, 2:45 a.m. CST

    You know what is great? The writer knows his goose is cooked

    by MrCere

    In the interview with Simon (and by the way journalist-wannabe you don't start the chit-chat with a blow job "I am a big fan of your work") shows me that everybody at Fox is very worried and aware of AICN and the bad reaction to the script. Has anybody seen the Brett Ratner movie called "After the Sunset"? It doesn't matter how good or bad the script is, this guy is pedestrian. Simon basicly said they had polished up the turd Mori's guy reviewed and then with Ratner on board . . . well, game over.

  • June 14, 2005, 3:22 a.m. CST

    Rothman, I hope you're reading these

    by caerlas

    Fuck Rothman. Maybe his generation isn't hip enough to the franchise to understand these charachter vitality. As for myself and those of my generation who grew up with it as the #1 comic book on the stands and a hit cartoon show, these characters matter. Yeah Cyclops is annoying, that's the point of keeping him around. Someone's gotta piss of Wolverine. Concerning Xavier, if you kill him off then who will be the inspiring visionary that urges forward the essence of the cause of the good guys? What on earth would keep the team from falling apart? As for Mystique, the name says it all. If you want to ruin owning easily the most memorable female comic book villain in cinema then demutantizing her would accomplish that toot sweet. If you want to kill charachters, then waste the ones who've already died. Try Colossus or bring back some less interesting characters like Cipher and waste them. My final suggestion is: I want to see Storm with a mohawk again!

  • June 14, 2005, 3:24 a.m. CST

    Let's not lose perspective in all this prospection.

    by InBloom

    ...Why are you writing off a movie which hasn't even begun filming yet? I know better than most people why Rothman is an asshole, but X1 and X2 were pretty good in spite of him, were they not? The tone of this article is just all over the place. I know some of the opinions are those of Mori, and some of them are TheBigHurt's, but both of those people contradict themselves at various points in their writings: The first two films were great/the first two films were weak X2 had great characters/X2 had lame characters Kelsey Grammar is a bad choice/Grammar is an inspired choice, and here's one of my favorites: there is a lack of decent action set-pieces, despite the fact that MAGNETO DISASSEMBLES THE FUCKING GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE AND REARRANGES INTO A BRIDGE FOR HIMSELF AND HIS BUDDIES. Yeesh, the film would be worth it for that scene alone. And finally, please could all you dick-witted spengalis who think that Cyclops is dead please learn to READ IN BETWEEN THE FUCKING LINES? If Phoenix "de-molecularizes" Cyclops, do you not think that maybe, just maybe, she'll be able to "re-molecularize" him at a later point in the movie, or even in the next movie? C'mon, people! "de-molecularizing" in a superhero film is a quick and easy way to apparently kill off a character, while leaving the door open because it is a (say it with me)REVERSIBLE PROCESS. And yes, clearly the other character to be "killed off" is Xavier - in this draft of the film, which for all we know contains several red herrings to prevent this kind of internet speculation. Put it this way, if Xavier is dead at the end of X3, I will eat a staple gun. As I say, I'm all for heaping opprobrium on Rothman's head - I probably have more reason than most of you to do so, in fact. However, X3 is most certainly not a write-off just yet. Damn, you fanboys love your hair-trigger reactions, don't you?

  • June 14, 2005, 3:29 a.m. CST

    It's a crock!

    by Northstar 21

    I can't believe that Marvel would allow main characters to be killed off in the movies as they then reflect the movies in the books. In the books, Phoenix has gone for the time being, Rogue is powered down and both Mystique & Toad now match thier movie counterparts. Don't belive that they would be happy to lose Cyke & Prof X!

  • June 14, 2005, 4:05 a.m. CST

    InBloom....

    by Nachokoolaid

    If your grammar were worse, I'd swear you wer Avi Arad trying to reassure fans and do some MAJOR DAMAGE CONTROL. No, this shit sucks. Don't back it.

  • June 14, 2005, 4:13 a.m. CST

    Just give it a chance

    by Northstar 21

    The movie hasn't even been made yet! I hope it's fantastic and wipes all the smiles off your fanboy faces!

  • June 14, 2005, 4:19 a.m. CST

    InBloom you have some balls and I admire that but...

    by andrew coleman

    You're defending something I really hate. I never like to give my opinion on a movie before it is released but this is different. Fox is destroying a great franchise and they seemingly don't give a shit. I don't care what Magneto does, he can bring the Titanic up from under the water and use it to crush the X-Men. I don't care. The script sucks even if one or two pieces are okay, over all it is a horrible mess.

  • June 14, 2005, 4:28 a.m. CST

    it's time to stop this nonsense.

    by Vncentfilmerset

    let's say no to a rushed production , let's say no to Ratner!http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?LbX3&1

  • June 14, 2005, 4:41 a.m. CST

    Twilight of the X-Men

    by GreatWhiteWhale

    Woah take a breath, some of it looks bad, but there is time for rewrites. For those complaining about Ratner, he isn't that bad, he isnt great but this is a comic but movie and not Citizen Kane. Marvel have spoiled us in the past with excellent directors for their major franchises, we should accept that Ratner may not be brilliant, but it could have been worse. Saying that the villain, Warren Sr, is a retread of x2's Stryker is like saying Doc Ock is a retread of Green Goblin because they are both scientists. We have seen little of the script, and while the mutant cure plotline does seem contrived, it has potential. It *should* allow us to see the mutant community as a whole something which the previous films have not acheived. The scene with beast does seem to mimic AXM #3, but this is not such a bad thing. The scene in Spiderman 2 where peter throws his costume in the trash is a direct lift from ASM #50, an homage to the inspiration rather than a rip-off. Angel and Beast will be some nice eye-candy if done correctly, we can only hope. Nightcrawler and Mystique were well realized. We have seen to little of the script to make any major judgements on the phoenix and brotherhood plotlines; but they do have potential. Storm becoming a team leader is just idiotic, she was badly cast in the beginning, and while a strong female character, she does not embody the x men the way cyclops or wolverine do. The death of Cyclops is a nod to another comic image where Jean and Scott kiss while she holds back his optic beams and I agree this it is a mistake in killing this character, we shall see if this remains because i am sure there will still be dispute about it. Xavier dying is just wrong, he IS the X-Men, at least symbolically and after his death there will just be a whole lot of mutants shooting laser beams and crap. The purpose of the films is as a metaphor to the oppression of minority, Xavier is the dreamer, the Malcom X. Without him there is no purpose to fight. Mystique losing her powers could be awesome. There are so many character in the X Mythology to explore which makes it difficult to flesh all out all the extensive histories. It will be nice to see Gambit, Juggernaut and Cannonball realised on the big screen even if just in cameos. However, this is the twilight of the x-men. While the new crew may be setting up a sequel or trilogy of sorts it will never be the same. Killing Xavier for shock value will not pay off, as with cyclops. Getting rid of Mystique because her paycheck is too high is a stupid reason. Giving Halle Berry an expanded role is just stupid, she does not have the audience drawing power everyone seems to think she has. Look at Catwoman. The sex scene isnt a horrible idea but an iceman/shadowcat scene would have more relevance to the continuity set up in the previous two films. Daniel Cudmore is not returning, Colossus may be recast, Nightcrawler is returning. The problem with the franchise is not two many characters, a library of characters is a franchise gift, the problem is that two many 'must-see' big name actors whose paychecks evolve to project-crippling ammounts are cast. Berry, Jackman and Stamos have drawing power, but they there celebrity should not affect the script. Sadly, it appears sentinels will not appear, which may be a blessing as the budget and cgi may not be able to produce the types of sentinels we all wish to see. Also, eventually we will see the X-Men movies we want to. It might just take fifty years. At least the Danger Room is in it.

  • June 14, 2005, 4:41 a.m. CST

    Twilight of the X-Men

    by GreatWhiteWhale

    Woah take a breath, some of it looks bad, but there is time for rewrites. For those complaining about Ratner, he isn't that bad, he isnt great but this is a comic but movie and not Citizen Kane. Marvel have spoiled us in the past with excellent directors for their major franchises, we should accept that Ratner may not be brilliant, but it could have been worse. Saying that the villain, Warren Sr, is a retread of x2's Stryker is like saying Doc Ock is a retread of Green Goblin because they are both scientists. We have seen little of the script, and while the mutant cure plotline does seem contrived, it has potential. It *should* allow us to see the mutant community as a whole something which the previous films have not acheived. The scene with beast does seem to mimic AXM #3, but this is not such a bad thing. The scene in Spiderman 2 where peter throws his costume in the trash is a direct lift from ASM #50, an homage to the inspiration rather than a rip-off. Angel and Beast will be some nice eye-candy if done correctly, we can only hope. Nightcrawler and Mystique were well realized. We have seen to little of the script to make any major judgements on the phoenix and brotherhood plotlines; but they do have potential. Storm becoming a team leader is just idiotic, she was badly cast in the beginning, and while a strong female character, she does not embody the x men the way cyclops or wolverine do. The death of Cyclops is a nod to another comic image where Jean and Scott kiss while she holds back his optic beams and I agree this it is a mistake in killing this character, we shall see if this remains because i am sure there will still be dispute about it. Xavier dying is just wrong, he IS the X-Men, at least symbolically and after his death there will just be a whole lot of mutants shooting laser beams and crap. The purpose of the films is as a metaphor to the oppression of minority, Xavier is the dreamer, the Malcom X. Without him there is no purpose to fight. Mystique losing her powers could be awesome. There are so many character in the X Mythology to explore which makes it difficult to flesh all out all the extensive histories. It will be nice to see Gambit, Juggernaut and Cannonball realised on the big screen even if just in cameos. However, this is the twilight of the x-men. While the new crew may be setting up a sequel or trilogy of sorts it will never be the same. Killing Xavier for shock value will not pay off, as with cyclops. Getting rid of Mystique because her paycheck is too high is a stupid reason. Giving Halle Berry an expanded role is just stupid, she does not have the audience drawing power everyone seems to think she has. Look at Catwoman. The sex scene isnt a horrible idea but an iceman/shadowcat scene would have more relevance to the continuity set up in the previous two films. Daniel Cudmore is not returning, Colossus may be recast, Nightcrawler is returning. The problem with the franchise is not two many characters, a library of characters is a franchise gift, the problem is that two many 'must-see' big name actors whose paychecks evolve to project-crippling ammounts are cast. Berry, Jackman and Stamos have drawing power, but they there celebrity should not affect the script. Sadly, it appears sentinels will not appear, which may be a blessing as the budget and cgi may not be able to produce the types of sentinels we all wish to see. Also, eventually we will see the X-Men movies we want to. It might just take fifty years. At least the Danger Room is in it.

  • June 14, 2005, 4:41 a.m. CST

    Twilight of the X-Men

    by GreatWhiteWhale

    Woah take a breath, some of it looks bad, but there is time for rewrites. For those complaining about Ratner, he isn't that bad, he isnt great but this is a comic but movie and not Citizen Kane. Marvel have spoiled us in the past with excellent directors for their major franchises, we should accept that Ratner may not be brilliant, but it could have been worse. Saying that the villain, Warren Sr, is a retread of x2's Stryker is like saying Doc Ock is a retread of Green Goblin because they are both scientists. We have seen little of the script, and while the mutant cure plotline does seem contrived, it has potential. It *should* allow us to see the mutant community as a whole something which the previous films have not acheived. The scene with beast does seem to mimic AXM #3, but this is not such a bad thing. The scene in Spiderman 2 where peter throws his costume in the trash is a direct lift from ASM #50, an homage to the inspiration rather than a rip-off. Angel and Beast will be some nice eye-candy if done correctly, we can only hope. Nightcrawler and Mystique were well realized. We have seen to little of the script to make any major judgements on the phoenix and brotherhood plotlines; but they do have potential. Storm becoming a team leader is just idiotic, she was badly cast in the beginning, and while a strong female character, she does not embody the x men the way cyclops or wolverine do. The death of Cyclops is a nod to another comic image where Jean and Scott kiss while she holds back his optic beams and I agree this it is a mistake in killing this character, we shall see if this remains because i am sure there will still be dispute about it. Xavier dying is just wrong, he IS the X-Men, at least symbolically and after his death there will just be a whole lot of mutants shooting laser beams and crap. The purpose of the films is as a metaphor to the oppression of minority, Xavier is the dreamer, the Malcom X. Without him there is no purpose to fight. Mystique losing her powers could be awesome. There are so many character in the X Mythology to explore which makes it difficult to flesh all out all the extensive histories. It will be nice to see Gambit, Juggernaut and Cannonball realised on the big screen even if just in cameos. However, this is the twilight of the x-men. While the new crew may be setting up a sequel or trilogy of sorts it will never be the same. Killing Xavier for shock value will not pay off, as with cyclops. Getting rid of Mystique because her paycheck is too high is a stupid reason. Giving Halle Berry an expanded role is just stupid, she does not have the audience drawing power everyone seems to think she has. Look at Catwoman. The sex scene isnt a horrible idea but an iceman/shadowcat scene would have more relevance to the continuity set up in the previous two films. Daniel Cudmore is not returning, Colossus may be recast, Nightcrawler is returning. The problem with the franchise is not two many characters, a library of characters is a franchise gift, the problem is that two many 'must-see' big name actors whose paychecks evolve to project-crippling ammounts are cast. Berry, Jackman and Stamos have drawing power, but they there celebrity should not affect the script. Sadly, it appears sentinels will not appear, which may be a blessing as the budget and cgi may not be able to produce the types of sentinels we all wish to see. Also, eventually we will see the X-Men movies we want to. It might just take fifty years. At least the Danger Room is in it.

  • June 14, 2005, 4:45 a.m. CST

    InBloom

    by eule

    You know the problem is that they killed of Jean Grey in x2, even though fans knew she'd eventually come back. Now you suggest cyces gets grilled and then brought back again? That would be like adapting todays comic book weaknesses, namely poor and rushed character deaths for shock value. and then bringing characters back like nothing happend. Green Lantern anyone?

  • June 14, 2005, 5:09 a.m. CST

    The script could be alright

    by bigcheckonthat

  • June 14, 2005, 5:12 a.m. CST

    by bigcheckonthat

    Like I said before- the hatred is going on two acts- but the reviewer himself found a lot of good in the script, so i still have hope. Remember what happened to moviemack

  • Well done.

  • Make the Pheonix a mutant power that was repressed by Xavier... What was that they have de-mutant-juice hanging around? What a coincidence!!!

  • June 14, 2005, 5:20 a.m. CST

    This cant happen but it will

    by Mr Chuff

    I dont know what any of us here can seriously, in all honesty do about stopping this cript from ever reaching the screen. I kicked up fuck just as much as everyone else about the lump of cold shit that was the Superman Returns draft but I think WB was acutely aware of the fact that they were re-starting an entire franchise from scratch and took notice of what people who cared about the character had to say about it. The prolem with Fox and Rothman is that they are currently riding fairly high with their franchise. No re-start, no teething troubles. In their eyes it's "make another and these piss-lids will open their wallets while we open their asses". Now, When the Superman thing kicked off I had NO idea who to mail and spew bile at - if AICN was really the Hollywood Terrorist Spoiler Site it claims/claimed to be then they'd give us some idea of where to mail our filth. At least SOMEONE SOMEWHERE would know. At the moment it all depends on someone telling Rothman or Arad "there's a pile of shit about you & X3 on AICN". I hope they read this though..... I really do. And lastly (I AM finishing up now!) I HATE it when actors change in the middle of a series of movies but lets face it - Basset should've been Storm all along..........

  • June 14, 2005, 5:59 a.m. CST

    it's time to stop this nonsense.

    by Vncentfilmerset

    let's say no to a rushed production , let's say no to Ratner!http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?LbX3&1

  • June 14, 2005, 6:22 a.m. CST

    I tell you one thing if future X Men film DO NOT have Stewart an

    by Spacesheik

  • June 14, 2005, 6:23 a.m. CST

    Castings

    by GreatWhiteWhale

    According to Avi Arad "Everyones Back" but we all know that Avi talks alot of shit, basically he says anything to gain interesting in the current project. Confirmed according to IMDB (The great and eminent oracle for all things film)the following have been cast. Alan Cumming .... Kurt Wagner/Nightcrawler Maggie Grace .... Kathren Pride/Shadowcat Kelsey Grammer .... Hank McCoy/Beast Hugh Jackman .... Logan/Wolverine Famke Janssen .... Jean Grey/Phoenix Vinnie Jones .... Cain Marko/Juggernaut Ian McKellen .... Eric Lensherr/Magneto Patrick Stewart .... Professor Charles Xavier Also optioned to return are: Daniel Cudmore/Colossus (If we do see Colossus i am confident it will not be Cudmore however) Aaron Stanford/Pyro Ray Park/Toad (highly unlikely to return, possibly in Magneto as a cameo however) Kea Wong/Jubilee (This character is also unlikely to return as the same actor, if at all) Also Tyler Mane and Kelly hu have also been optioned for an 'X-men or X-men related script' leaving them available for Wolverine. James Marsden/Cyclops, Halle Berry/Storm or Anna Paquin/Rogue it seems have not definetely signed on. Judging by the script it seems that Halle Berry and Paquin are *probably* on board, and cyclops is being written tentatively, even though Marsden is on record as saying he will do the film for free. But we shouldn't believe everything we read - Hollywood talks alot of crap.

  • June 14, 2005, 6:54 a.m. CST

    Xavier IS NOT Malcolm X, he s Martin Luther King. Magneto is Mal

    by TonyWilson

  • June 14, 2005, 6:55 a.m. CST

    Eule

    by InBloom

    ....but that's exactly my point. You people want movies made from comic book properties? Then accept comic book "house style". This isn't something insignificant like whether they where spandex or leather - it's linked with the fundamentals of comic book narrative. Oh, and Spectrebeeyatch: you are over-reacting man, calm down. Take a deep breath. Your life will go on whether this film sucks or not. And the only time you will truly be able to judge its quality is when you see it in a theater.

  • June 14, 2005, 6:56 a.m. CST

    This is a BAD. FUCKING. IDEA!!

    by Steve Rogers

    Avi Arad has lost any respect I might have had for him. He is becoming a fucking shill for the studios and the money, like DC movies became in the 80's and 90's. He should know better than to try this shit!! And letting some sort of personal grudge push them into production to rush to beat Superman and Singer (which has already been in production for months) will just devalue the series as a whole and make Fox, Rothman, and everyone else look like idiots. This series was going so good as well. FUCK!! Now there's only Spidey 3 that can save Marvel (Ghost Rider? Yeah, RIGHT!)

  • June 14, 2005, 7:27 a.m. CST

    One last thing

    by Vncentfilmerset

    i am one the person who wants wolverine to have a smaller role but what i'm reading is ridiculous.. wolverine has plenty of things to do..so , what stryker said to him ( in summarry , that they worked together and that Logan was a coldblooded assassin) hasn't trigger any new flash of memory? he coul try to be a professor at Xavier 's school ..and he could have nightmares of himself being a cold blooded assassin.. one could have an interesting wolverine , tormented but less present,and hence ,set up his spin off..

  • June 14, 2005, 7:28 a.m. CST

    Rothman

    by aheartapart

    The movies in general suck because of short-sighted pricks like Rothman. We should do whatever we can to make an example of him. I, for one am going to find "alternative" ways of seeing any future Fox films.

  • June 14, 2005, 7:29 a.m. CST

    One last thing

    by Vncentfilmerset

    i want wolverine to have a smaller role but what i'm reading is ridiculous.. wolverine has plenty of things to do..so , what stryker said to him ( in summarry , that they worked together and that Logan was a coldblooded assassin) hasn't trigger any new flash of memory? he coul try to be a professor at Xavier 's school ..and he could have nightmares of himself being a cold blooded assassin.. one could have an interesting wolverine , tormented but less present,and hence ,set up his spin off..

  • June 14, 2005, 7:38 a.m. CST

    Nice work Moriarty

    by Krazy Eyez Killa

    Props for exposing that poser Tom Rothman as the talentless homewrecker he is. The guy has such an ego that he even slaps the real fans in the face with promises of empathy. Just because he and Fox are doing a "Batman & Robin" on this franchise doesn't mean they won't be smiling ear to ear when X3 does huge off hype and marketing. When people actually see it and realize what X-Men has been reduced to, Fox will be long on it's way to churning out the quick and cheap character spinoff flicks. You give us the finger Rothman, well what if the fans returned the favor and decided to download the movie instead of paying to go see it when it comes out? You'd have no one to blame but yourself for that one. Thanks Moriarty for calling this douchebucket out, but real justice would be getting all the snake executives like him banned from Hollywood.

  • June 14, 2005, 7:49 a.m. CST

    DOWNLOAD IT!!

    by Mr Chuff

    it's the only way to make the suits shit their pants.... download it or get any travelling friends to bring back a shitload of ripped dvds from Thailand. Fuck the suits.

  • June 14, 2005, 7:57 a.m. CST

    Piracy Can Save Hollywood from Itself

    by aheartapart

    People are already staying home by the millions. The time it takes major Hollywood releases to make their way to DVD is getting shorter and the number of people downloading movies is growing as the number of homes with broadband increases. Why go out? Why pay an arm and a leg for tickets and sodas and popcorn for the privilege of watching the formulaic crap shat out by talentless coke-addled morons with business degrees? Fuck that! These people understand one thing: Money. Just let their box receipts drop some more and if we're lucky Hollywood will have no choice, but to re-examine the way it does business.

  • June 14, 2005, 8:03 a.m. CST

    Well, this sucker's gonna be DOA but I WILL pay to see Nona

    by Laserbrain

    And just wait a year for Singer, sheesh.

  • June 14, 2005, 8:08 a.m. CST

    by icarus1970

  • June 14, 2005, 8:09 a.m. CST

    Anyone from FOX read this yet? Or Avi?

    by Mr Chuff

    thought not....so the shit's still going ahead then?

  • June 14, 2005, 8:19 a.m. CST

    Vaughn

    by Mafu

    Thanks for the news, Mori. I now understand why Matthew Vaughn hopped out of the director's chair on "X3." I'm convinced it wasn't due to "family issues," and I'm just as convinced his reasons for leaving centered around a rushed development schedule, a lackluster script that Vaughn tried to clean up, and meddling studio execs like Tom Rothman. Good for Vaughn. He knew when to shit or get off the pot, so I maintain my respect for him. But I'd pay to see Rothman get drawn and quartered on one of Fox's newest fall reality shows called, "Indifference." The premise of the show: viewers watch executives, child molesters, corporate lawyers, CEOS, rapists, and other miscreants get tortured live, and if viewers find they care about the torturee, they can call 1-800-DONT-DIE to save him or her. If they don't care, they just watch and enjoy. I have a feeling Tom Rothman would find the latter to be his fate.

  • She just vaporizes Scott? What THE FUCK?!?!?!!?? NO! That's just SHIT! What the fuck is this, MARS ATTACKS?! It's wrong. It's so fucking wrong I can't even begin to fathom. If you hate Marsden for being in Superman, just recast him or marginalize him again so that you CAN recast him later. You kill him and you kill the triangle. What's more you kill off the character that really holds the X-Men together. He's the perfect carry over character, easy to recast when necessary thanks to the visor and glasses, and he works great as the jerk who runs things. And Prof X? Okay, I quit this franchise. I knew X2 was too good to be true. I knew it could only be followed by a let down, and this promises to be one hell of a let down.

  • June 14, 2005, 8:21 a.m. CST

    Another Alternative

    by icarus1970

    Am new to this site and am intrigued by the passion everyone here has for the topic at hand! The train-wreck, of a flick that is X-3. I have my own alternative to disaster and would like to share it with the forum. Shelve everything X-3 related. The script. The actors. Director. All of it. It goes away like a bad dream. Thankfully. Then, hire a competant writer(s) and pen a Wolverine movie instead. This would be easier to write/film becuase it has one main character. You have so many options going this route. Can you picture Alpha Flight, Wendigo, more Weapon-X horrors, more Deathstrike, Silver Samurai, Mariko, Sunfire, Wolverine in a field of cherry blossoms slicing through ninjas, etc. You have such a wealth of history that can be made into a solo-pic. Then, after one hour and 45 minutes of character evolution, action sequences, etc. the finale to the Wolverine pic, opening May 2006. Have a picture of a final scene with Wolverine and Colossus in a bar/tavern that has been utterly destroyed/gutted. Lying at their feet is Juggernaut - worse for wear. Can see the images of these three characters fighting each other. This happened in an issue of Uncanny in the 80's and it worked then, could still work now! Great scene to be had. Wolverine is chugging a beer, smoking a cigar and then BAM, Professor X hits him with a mental alarm/alert. X tells him that Jean is back and something has happened...something very bad. 2 of the X-Men have been killed. While scouting out new mutants, Storm and Nightcrawler are ambushed by an overlgy charge, utterly confused, and a very psychotic Phoenix. Storm and Nightcrawler are trying to round up Magma, Gambit and Angel. Storm is killed (Halle goes out with a bang - YEAH.) and Gambit is also killed in the fray. Nightcrawler is able ot port everyone else to safety. Picking himself up from the floor, Wolverine looks at the camera and says "Pete, we gotta go home." And then, Wolverine ends and in 2006 X-3 can open with a nice flashback sequence to this event and the beginning of the end for Phoenix. Sigh. Just the way I see it!

  • June 14, 2005, 8:26 a.m. CST

    Tom Rothman is the New Jon Peters

    by Han Frodo

    Whether you love Halle or hate her, I don't know one fan of the franchise who ever said, "You know what this franchise needs, more Halle Berry." I guess we should be happy that this Rothman dick didn't try to stick a gay robot sidekick into the movie.

  • June 14, 2005, 8:34 a.m. CST

    Well its a good thing your not writing it.

    by X3isFucked

    Because us Gambit fans didnt wait three films to see him killed at the end of a fucking wolverine film.

  • June 14, 2005, 8:42 a.m. CST

    reply to X3isFucked

    by icarus1970

    Wow. Hostile fellow might want to ease up on the coffee intake! This is an alternative to a disastrous X-3 flick. Another alternative is to film nothing. Look at the bright side, Storm bites the big one, that can only be construed as a good thing!

  • June 14, 2005, 8:43 a.m. CST

    Tom Rothman, you're an asshole of fucking EPIC proportions..

    by TV CASUALTY

    You can't kill Cyke off. Not because he's a good actor (he's not), or a great character (not in these films really), but because he's ONE OF THE ORIGINAL X-MEN. But that's really the least of our problems. This is utterly depressing.

  • June 14, 2005, 8:50 a.m. CST

    it's time to stop this nonsense.

    by Vncentfilmerset

    let's say no to Rothman and his rushed production , let's say no to Ratner!http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?LbX3&1

  • June 14, 2005, 9:02 a.m. CST

    Tell them you think Rothman and company are douchebags

    by aheartapart

    Florence Grace, Senior Vice President Corporate Publicity/20th Century Fox Phone:310-369-5634 Fax:310-369-8825 You should call. Their response is pretty humorous if you can get through.

  • that the studio and jerk producer want to make even if its horrendous

  • June 14, 2005, 9:26 a.m. CST

    fans have the power

    by bgaulke

    pledge to boycott this film now

  • June 14, 2005, 9:26 a.m. CST

    "Lloyd Bentsen-style dressing down"

    by JackRabbitSlim

    Uh ... Bentsen lost ... remember? Ah, the glories of the soundbite generation...

  • June 14, 2005, 9:33 a.m. CST

    this sucks.........but.......

    by blackthought

    at least batman begins comes out tonight!

  • June 14, 2005, 9:49 a.m. CST

    No no no...

    by doobieflixx

    Cyclops & X dead? Wrong. This cannot be real. Please. It ruins the first two. Regarding Ratner...he seems like a dick when you watch any special features on his DVD's. He's rude to his actors and wuite frankly seems to be a little coked up. I wouldn't want to work with him. But still his movies are not bad in the end but it seems that his actors don't really want to ever work for him again. Hmmmf. Fans could be in trouble here.

  • June 14, 2005, 9:51 a.m. CST

    For lofe101, MasterWhedon and Nachokoolaid:

    by Childe Roland

    If you like the little treatment I crapped out up there and happen to know anyone at Fox, give it to them. In fact, that goes for anyone here (and any Fox peons who might be lurking). I would gladly renounce any and all rights to the basic story concept if it were the money the execs are worried about. And if they want someone to flesh it out on the cheap, I'd do that for peanuts (honey roasted, though... I do have some sense of self worth). Anything to make sure the third movie is true to the characters as established in the first two films and that the story is at least respectful of the source material in the comics. It's just hard for me to believe that the script we've apparently got is so much worse in basic premise than most of the ramshackle treatments typed in this talkback (as abyssstare correctly observed, mine came right out of the old ass). It seems to imply that the filmmakers really don't give shit one about the franchise, and that's just sad. Let folks who love or at least like these characters show you how easily they can be brought to life, Fox. You've already got a competent director to babysit the franchise. All you'd have to do is sit back and collect the money instead of the buckets and buckets of ill will you're amassing.

  • June 14, 2005, 9:54 a.m. CST

    aheartapart

    by Ribbons

    What do they say?

  • June 14, 2005, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Fuck hollywood...Read Comics

    by wickedd

    Oh god! If this is where the films are going we X-Fans are Fucked! It's the apocalypse for us....wait...that's a great idea(hint). An aweful, Sinister idea(hint). Some other MUTANT main villain would be Fucking nice. Fuck the human vs. mutant plot a.k.a. X2.

  • June 14, 2005, 10:05 a.m. CST

    Like we didn't see this coming?

    by slide1

    Really, lets be honest with one another out there, we all knew this day would come. We have prepared mentally and spirtually for it, or at least I thought we had. Of course its going to suck...why wouldn't? We saw the demise as it was happeing. I for one am just happy with the time we were able to spend together before the X-franchise passed on... a moment of silence if you will.... Ok now that's done, COME ON!? The first two films were good...yup good not great...shit not GREAT by a long shot. You take these characters and the best you can do is make up some lame ass drivil that dosen't support the charcter at all. These mutants KICK ASS...Scott is supposed to be one hell of a hand to hand combatant, oh and HE CAN SHOOT SHIT OUT OF HIS EYES that can punch through a mountain. In X1 we meet the guy and he dosen't do much and in X2 he is in the film for what 7mins tops...yup he is going to die in the third, cause how can you justify having the guy on set for less than 7min...think about it. What we need is advasires that kick the crap out of the X-men, we need to see Cyclops and Wolverine have the ultimate throw down, and more we need to see Wolverine lose..why...becuase it is intresting..hell check out the Ultimate X-men series when Cyk and Wolvie had a show down, after Wolvie almost killed Cyk and left him in a whole for like two weeks just so Wolvie could have Jean. More importantly WHERE THE HELL IS COLUSSASS? I as a fanboy want my big shiny russian, or in X2 farmboy, back. At least it would be an intresting throw down with Juggy. And it would make sense to have Kitty Pride as a main character...love intrest anyone... What they need to do is send Rouge the way of the dodo...seriously. The girl in my opinion can not act...not in these films. She is always scared and whinny and I just don't give a damn for her, plus her lazy eye make out scene in X2 was just retarted. Rouge is just as weak as Cyclops. More importantly DOES IT MATTER? The film will be made, and we all will go see it, and we all may hate it but the money will be spent and someone some where will see how the people love the film and start development on Secret Wars, the second one with the jery curl Beyonder...

  • June 14, 2005, 10:28 a.m. CST

    Jouko Ahola for COLOSSUS!!!

    by Flansy

    I read on IGN or somewhere a few weeks back that Colossus WOULD be in the film, but be played by a new actor and not Daniel Cudmore for some reason. I can't think of anyone more perfect than Jouko Ahola, the finnish actor/strongman who recently starred in Herzog's "Invincible" (and was also Liam Neeson's croney at the start of "Kingdom of Heaven" who got an arrow through the throat). http://www.invinciblemovie.com/cast/ahola.html

  • June 14, 2005, 10:35 a.m. CST

    Gambit fans?

    by ejcarter9

    Gambit fans? Gambit fans?? Sheesh. I know I'm a geek, nerd... what have you, but at least I'm not a Gambit fan. Hey, if X3 does tank I'll blame it on the inclusion of Gambit.

  • June 14, 2005, 10:45 a.m. CST

    Okay Were forgeting something...

    by w_woody

    We have yet to see the whole thing...act III may rectify the film...Okay re-read the whole thing and then add this to complete the film... Jean has emerged as the evil one, Magneto and Prof. X have bit the dust as well as Cyclops.Mr. Worthington Sr. is out to use Leech to Demutate Mutants...Well Wolvie, Beast, Storm, Iceman, Rouge, Kitty, Angel, and maybe a few others mount an offencive to stop Mr. Worthington Sr. who thanks to Beast's break-in has discovered that he is not all that he seems to be. In fact he was once aligned with the deceased Stryker who Worthington used his monety to help fun. Enter Sentinals to defend Worthington's estate. Low and Behold Mr. Worthington Sr. is Apocolypse and has been manipulating the X-men, Xavier, and Magneto by using Jean throughout the whole of the films. It was he who amped up Jeans Powers making her Phonix as well as Adopted and Raised Warran to become Death, Fourth Horseman of Apocolypse. Enter final battle between X-men and Apocolypse and the three Horseman (Mystique, Jean, ?: Who weren't de-mutated but simply changed by Apocolypse)and low and behold Jean realizes the error of her ways after seeing Warran turn against Apocolypse and comes to the X-men's aid helps to destroy's Apocolypse and then realizes she must sacrifice herself again to the dismay of the X-men. Yet we find that in fact she wasn't the real Jean but a copy created by Apocolypse and that Cyclops, X-avier, and Charles are all alive and well captured by Apocolypse who was using their powers to fuel his experiements on mutants. Of course Jean has no memory of the X-men, Cyclops, The Professor or Wolveriene due to her being imprisoned her entire life. Magneto leaves the X-men, even though Wolvie wants to put some Adamentainium in him. As he leaves he says he's going to Genosha...he's heard they are a free mutant state...and he will be there should Charles need to find him. Well?

  • June 14, 2005, 10:54 a.m. CST

    3rd Act Optimism

    by Han Frodo

    If this is the script they use I don't think even a fantastic 3rd Act can save the movie. There are far too many problems. Namely: (1)Shifting the Focus to Halle Berry (2)Minimizing Wolverine's role (3)Shoehorning Storm/Wolvie "relationship" into the movie (4)Rehashing the plot from X2

  • June 14, 2005, 10:57 a.m. CST

    Ok, I don't mind the serum since it's from 'Astonish

    by zbrokenpoet

    the first two weren't exactly the worlds best films. They didn't follow any continuity but none of us cared because we got to see some of our favorite X-Men in action on the big screen and it was awesome. The plot was never important in these movies anyways, it was all about introducing new mutants and having a showcase of their powers. That's it. Seriously, just go back and watch both of them. I don't mind all this shit where main characters are dying, serum that turns mutants into people and even Storm leading the team post death of cyclops. I don't mind it, these movies plots suck, it's the action that carries them. The action won't suck, it never does, this is a broad outline of what COULD happen in this movie, stop getting so goddamn worked up. I'm a avid comic book geek and a filmmaker, it always begins with stuff looking like shit, but sometimes it becomes something better in the end. i have faith in it... and Ratner is a talented director. (Red Dragon anyone?)

  • June 14, 2005, 11:08 a.m. CST

    Either Moriarty is ballsy as hell or he just likes to sabotage h

    by godoffireinhell

    ... because, as everyone knows, he has a project or two in the works at FOX in the capacity of screenwriter. I really don't think FOX will greenlight his adaptation of Clive Barker's DREAD now that he has (rightfully) cussed the living shit out of one of their top executives. Actually, this article may very well get him "blacklisted".

  • June 14, 2005, 11:09 a.m. CST

    Anyone who has anything good to say about this just doesn't

    by DenizenZERO

  • June 14, 2005, 11:11 a.m. CST

    it's time to stop this nonsense.

    by Vncentfilmerset

    let's say no to Rothman ,let's say no to Ratner, let's say no to a rushed production! http://www.petitiononline.com/LbX3/

  • June 14, 2005, 11:17 a.m. CST

    just use one of the classic claremont storylines...

    by LabattsBleu

    like days of future past or the dark phoenix/hellfire club arc. this could be like watching a train wreck... Red Dragon sucked BTW...I heard the actors hated Ratner and there were yelling matches on set...

  • June 14, 2005, 11:30 a.m. CST

    petition

    by Serial_Mom

    i'm all for signing a petition to Fox.. i just think it should be one a bit more.. thought out... and proofread.. so that they might actually take the time to read it.. and take it seriously..

  • June 14, 2005, 11:40 a.m. CST

    Prior Walter and things we'll never see

    by oisin5199

    Can anybody confirm the information in his posts? If his corrections are indeed correct, it's a lot closer to the comics with Storm losing her powers through Forge, Beast being associated with a virus (though differently and a different virus) and Gambit being with the Marauders (I believe Bella Donna was his wife from the assassin's guild). Though I find it hard to believe that so many new characters will be introduced. And still hate the idea of the three most important characters to the X-Men being killed off in one movie (If you need me to make a case for that, I'll do it in another post). Things we'll never see in an X-Men movie (this is just the top of a long list): 1) Morlocks - they're not going to do what was already a rip off of HG Wells 2)Sinister and Apocalypse - the back (and forward) stories are just too big to present with any coherence onscreen. And since they're concentrating more on human/mutant relations, and not immortal/otherworldly beings, it's more likely we'll get Sentinels than them (though that's not looking good either). If they ever have the balls to do a Cable spinoff, and go full sci-fi, then maybe we'd get Sinister and Apocalypse. But not in X-Men.

  • June 14, 2005, 11:42 a.m. CST

    Serial_Mom

    by Vncentfilmerset

    i'm sure that the petition could be improved what would you propose?

  • June 14, 2005, 11:51 a.m. CST

    X-MEN DEMAND A BIGGER UNIVERSE OR UNIVERSES

    by LilOgre

    This is the third film in the series and the film seem squarely grounded in horrid ideas and plot contrivances. I for one thought that the Stryker plot was horrible and a waste. Yes - X1 was decent but it was essentially an origin film. There are so many fantastic storylines and characters from the comics that to frame the film around a cure for mutation and a dark phoenix subplot that does not have the breadth that the storyline merits. This would be tantamount to a Spiderman adaptation set before Peter even ever wears the spidey-suit. OK - WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS BRING ON BISHOP, the XSE's, ONSLAUGHT, AND/OR THE SENTINELS. Only then will this franchise live up to its potential!!!

  • June 14, 2005, 11:52 a.m. CST

    On Treatments and Respect for the Fans

    by MasterWhedon

    What I find funny is that guys like Childe Roland can crap out a quickie treatment we all respond to rather favorably, while the folks at Fox, after all their brain trusting, come through with something rather beige in comparrison. This just goes to underline and highlight and dog ear the motherfuckin' page where it was said that when you live and breathe these characters for so long, you inherently KNOW THEM and you know when they're not being treated with respect. I'm all for shaking things up. I'm all for killing off X-Men, REALLY killing them off. And I'm not the guy to quibble over costuming. I'll go with it. But when I see Cyclops utterly wasted in the first too films--however much I enjoyed what screen time he had--and when I hear how his death comes in this one, it angers me. I think the moment described above it beautiful and poignant, but it's also very cheap. The connection between Cyclops and Jean hasn't been handled well in the films, instead following Logan's "other man," temptation angle. If they kill Cyclops so quickly, THEY WILL NOT HAVE EARNED THE EMOTION OF THE SCENE. You should be wrecked after it, but only if they build it to a crescendo. Look, I don't think it'd be a stretch to say some of us have an emotional attachment to these films. That might come across the wrong way and inspire scores of heckling, but that doesn't make it any less true. I just hope and pray that this thing comes out right in the end.

  • June 14, 2005, 11:55 a.m. CST

    petition

    by Serial_Mom

    i've just always found.. that in instances like this.. people tend to listen to more factual, than emotional statements. i think that one written out concisely, with facts and statements... would have a better chance of garnering a response from the people at Fox ... i'm not saying it's something i'd know any better how to do than anyone else... the guys who run this website are the writers... they might have some ideas... it's just my opinion that something more concise and specific.. would be more like to be ... read and taken into account...

  • June 14, 2005, 12:10 p.m. CST

    MEANT TO SAY...

    by LilOgre

    "There are so many fantastic storylines and characters from the comics that to frame the film around a cure for mutation and a dark phoenix subplot that does not have the breadth that the storyline merits is a complete miscalculation."

  • June 14, 2005, 12:59 p.m. CST

    It's not funny, MasterWhedon

    by I Dunno

    ...it's fucking maddening. Everything in Hollywood is politics, who you know, who you're related to, who you're blowing, who you're blackmailing or who you screw over. Talent and qualifications are way the hell down the list.

  • June 14, 2005, 1:12 p.m. CST

    Prior Walter

    by drew mcweeny

    Is very, very wrong.

  • June 14, 2005, 1:18 p.m. CST

    Huh, so that's where Jessica Harper went.

    by Lenny Nero

    Hey, don't forget SHOCK TREATMENT, MY FAVORITE YEAR, MR. WONDERFUL and the incredibly awkward moment where we see her lipstick-covered breasts in PENNIES FROM HEAVEN.

  • June 14, 2005, 1:52 p.m. CST

    6 day script vs 6 MINUTE TREATMENT

    by RezE11even

    ChildeRoland, that thing you wrote kicks all kinds of ass. It progresses the story, remains true to the charecters, remains true to the other films, remains true to the comics, complies with shitty actors with influence(Halle, Marsden), has awesome action, setup... everything. And you wrote it down on paper in 6 minutes. Someone at Fox, please, take Childe Roland's treatment, and make it happen. As opposed to your shitty 6 day script written at a stoned out week's vacation getaway, minus the creativity that usually comes along with being stoned. Normally I wouldn't encourage changing things so close to production, but really- with Childe Roland's above guidelines, of which he already stated he doesn't care if they are used without his permission, the film would be wonderful. I mean, if you can crank out crap for it in 6 days, then surely you can make this new script before filming starts. Surely, if you change directors a week ago, you can change filming locations if necessary before filming starts. Someone at Fox, please. Please.

  • June 14, 2005, 1:53 p.m. CST

    WRONG INFORMATION

    by SicilianGecko

    :::QUOTE:::::Florence Grace, Senior Vice President Corporate Publicity/20th Century Fox ::::: I feel your pain but you've given the wrong information. Flo hasn't been with FOX in quite some time now. Even when she was she didn't handle National Publicity. She has nothing to do with steering the creative side of this film. All that information should be sent to the creative executives instead.

  • June 14, 2005, 2:27 p.m. CST

    Recasting...

    by Mr.TambourineMan

    ...would be plain wrong. Did any of you see "Mortal Kombat: Annihilation"? That was a fucking disaster partly because different actors were replacing the pre-existing ones. If they can't renew someone's contract for this sequel or any other, then at least have the remaining characters explain their absence and leave it at that rather than having to shove a new face down our throats. Maybe a death is the best way to go if you can nab the actor for a day or two. Angela Basset as Storm? Give me a break. Like I said before, as long as they oust the mutant cure subplot and the pussy-whipped Wolverine, I'll be happy.

  • June 14, 2005, 2:33 p.m. CST

    it's time to stop this nonsense.

    by Vncentfilmerset

    http://www.petitiononline.com/LbX3/

  • June 14, 2005, 2:41 p.m. CST

    What if Rogue...

    by Zardoz

    ...permanently stole Jean Grey's Phoenix power? Instead of Rogue getting her superpowers from Carol Danvers AKA Ms. Marvel, she gets them from Jean Grey and...kills her in the process? Or maybe I'm just too stoned...?

  • June 14, 2005, 3:26 p.m. CST

    i've thought this over...

    by teddanson37

    okay it's been over 24 hours since i read the script review and after thinking it over again...it still sucks. in some ways it sucks less in others it sucks even more. storm leading the Xmen is okay with me...if we just have to sit through X3 like that. But with cyclops AND the prof dead then we have storm leading for the rest of eternity. and that would be terrible. prof shouldn't die and if he does cyclops shouldn't just so someone else can lead in the future, besides storm. and it just sucks that the prof is gonna be dead. that really sucks. and it is so stupid that someone can sit a computer and make up a story that is way better than the crap the people who got paid to do it came up with. i keep praying this is just a joke and fox or someone will come out and say "that's not the X3 we're making". if this movie does get made, then no matter what X4 is about it will be better than this crap (if they make X4 after this thing bombs). and personally i enjoy reading other people's ideas for X3 plots just because it helps me remember how great the Xmen could be if someone who cared about the comics the way losers like us do got to be in charge.

  • June 14, 2005, 3:29 p.m. CST

    "Do you know what happens when a franchise gets struck by a bad

    by TheImperialGuy

    The same thing that happened to "Batman & Robin."

  • June 14, 2005, 3:34 p.m. CST

    A couple things

    by The Pusher

    First of all, fuck Tim Rothman in his stupid ass. Second, this seems like a script that's trying too hard to fuse the best parts of the first two films. If they had any sense, they'd take the next natural step further and bring in Apocalypse, Gyrich and the Sentinals, or have the mutant war to end all mutant wars (tell me you don't want to see a mutant war).

  • June 14, 2005, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Let your freak flag fly!

    by Devil'sOwn

    Hey. Still trying to make sense of this trainwreck and waitin' for salvation. Forgive me while I take inventory here. I'm not gonna drop my own, original storyline ideas on ya. I've followed these movies with enthusiasm and was not at all dissapointed with the results. They just needed to create ragin' escapist entertainment, and for my money, they got the job done. Critical ambivalence I can understand- it's unrealistic to expect everyone to get into Marvel's mutants, and their admittedly mad, mad world. And my fellow "fanboys" alternately amuse and confound me with their rants about what rightfully should be in X3, and what they just wished we could see (While I don't condone attacks,I've never been too thrilled by Ms. Berry, and I've heard she can just be a bitch). I mean, the first two films set a precedent, they proved if you pay a bit of attention to the source material this stuff can be done! My She-Devil is not an avid comics fan, so she has the average moviegoer's perspective about the situation. There are many of us who just see a trailer for whatever reason, decide at that moment we want to see that movie. Some of us don't dissect it; just accept it at face value, and go see the movie with no expectations. But even these non-initiates can now see they set up characters and situations- Iceman and Rogue's romance; a cameo by Henry "Beast" McCoy; Jean Grey's gradual progression towards becoming Phoenix; Wolverine's finding his place in the X-Men as an experienced mentor; NIGHTCRAWLER and Storm's sweet developing friendship; the introduction of Colossus as a valuable team player; Magneto reestablishing himself as the most badass mutant on the planet; and last but certainly not least, what I feel is Singer and Co.'s crowning achievement of transforming Pyro from an obscure background character to a genuinely conflicted young man who ultimately chooses "the dark side". Which now apparently are going to be ignored! What changed is my question?! Up until a week ago I never heard of this warlock Rothman. Did he just take advantage of Singer's absence to fill the vacuum and helm the franchise with his own personal vision?? It's just wrong. It's the executives who annoy me with their corporate schmuck doublespeak. In articles I've read they claim "This is gonna be great. We have a great script, and a great, talented director. Everthing's going full-steam ahead." Great, great, great. Having read and listened to their confident assurences, I am left wondering- Why do I not share their faith? I am not some whiner bangin' on his highchair "No, no, no! That's not how I want it!" No, I realize these are the "professionals", the cats who do this for a living, and I should respect their experience, right? I dunno, man. At this point, I really don't feel like this is something I'm gonna want t'pay hard earned money to see. I've been "on the wagon" for years now, I just pick up the occasional graphic novel, but I love comics and always will. I've been pleased to see movies like these and Spider-Man do extremely well and increase the public's awareness of this artform and perhaps show them that it shouldn't be written off as "junk" culture. Hey, anything that encourages kids to read is aces with me.

  • June 14, 2005, 3:54 p.m. CST

    You guys with hard-ons for giant robots...

    by Ribbons

    ...should seriously just wait for the Transformers movie to come out. I've been trying to be diplomatic about it, but this is just pissing me off. Sentinels are not what the X-Men are all about, and it's not necessarily the "natural conclusion" that Singer and his writers were leading the franchise towards. It's like the success of 'X-Men' and 'X2' can only be qualified if you people see a bunch of flying robots onscreen.

  • June 14, 2005, 4:10 p.m. CST

    JSheaStanley

    by samsquanch

    I couldn't agree more, man. and by the way, Tony Wilson, comparing super hero / super villains to either Martin Luther King Jr. or Malcolm X is completely fucking inane.

  • June 14, 2005, 4:26 p.m. CST

    I must confess...

    by PolyesterRage

    Never have I ever read an X-Men comic. I didn't even read the free one they gave me when I saw X2 opening day. This is a seque into something...I don't think that Cyclops dying is that big of a travesty. I've never seen him as the leader of the X-Men in the movies, he doesn't even seem integral. So killing him off, eh, I could care less. But killing him off...LIKE THAT? Fucking de-molecularized?! What the fuck is that?! That is the real travesty here. That anyone would ever in their wildest dreams even have the faint whisper in their minds that that was a good idea. De-molecularized? Sounds like something out of "This Island Earth!!" Now, some of the things the script reviewer discussed sounded interesting. I like the Angel stuff. They haven't really shown mutants reacting negatively to their powers. Mainly they seem to just accept them and move on. Now, what do I want in this film? I desperately want more Pyro. I got a fever, and the only prescrption is more Pyro. I want to see Pyro turned into a total badass by Magneto. And I want to see Pyro and Iceman have a throwdown. I want to see Rogue kill someone with her powers. I'm not sure why, but I do. I want to see Nightcrawler, period. I want to see Wolverine NOT banging Storm, of all people (again, who thought this was a good idea?!), and I want to see him front and center and kicking ass. I want Magneto and Xavier alive. They're such interesting characters. Why kill them off?! Kill off Storm! She's completely pointless and brings nothing to the X-Men table except some cool action sequences every now and then. This has been kind of a schizophrenic post, and I guess it all boils down to this. I want a good fucking X-Men 3 movie.

  • June 14, 2005, 4:43 p.m. CST

    it's time to stop this nonsense.

    by Vncentfilmerset

    let's say no to a rushed production, let's say no to Ratner!

  • June 14, 2005, 4:46 p.m. CST

    A word about X2 being not so good.

    by caerlas

    I just want to say X2 had some problems too. They kinda screwed their chances of doing a movie about Legion Quest since they completely got his character wrong in X2.

  • June 14, 2005, 4:49 p.m. CST

    Hey, you'll get no argument from me Ribbons!

    by Devil'sOwn

    I've never been crazy about the Sentinels. Robots generally don't do it for me. I admit, a while back I may have mentioned them in another TB about what we should expect from an X-sequel, probably due to the pervasive attitude that they are absolutely essential to the X-mythos, not that the suits are payin' any attention to continuity anyway. But after your logical explanation the other day, I thought, "D'oh! He's right!" As I, and many others have said, while no one should expect a chapter-and-verse adaptation of the comics, you'd think they'd at least consult them on significant people and sequences of events, seein' as how they've been around a coupla' decades. I swear, some of 'em are actually good, well-written stuff! Why would they want to pull stuff outta their noses and risk flushing the golden goose down the toilet? It just makes them sound like spoiled, self-satisfied, petty children who aren't looking at the big picture. The kind of backlash that crippled the Batman franchise couldn't have been an isolated phenomenon, could it? Bottom-line: By having a script that's been cobbled together and pawed over like a stripper at a biker party, and having throwaway bits like cameos by Gambit, you're losing us fast, man. You have to introduce new characters carefully: Ideally, they have a purpose, a reason for being. This is not some Star Wars- knockoff. These are your "next generation" of characters who will carry the series when the original cast has departed. Angel is there to remind us of our sense of wonder. Gambit, a decent enough character, is yer next bad boy, yer roguish Han Solo character who would provide some sexual tension. Then there's the little brother with an inferiority-complex from hell, Havok. And the Juggernaut is, simply, a force of nature, not just some cannon fodder to throw at the heroes. Right now though, I'd be just groovy if they said they were going to do the Dark Phoenix saga the way it should be. So whattaya think about the Hellfire club? A good opportunity for some deserving character actors to wear perod costumes, eh?

  • June 14, 2005, 4:52 p.m. CST

    Adress of the petition:

    by Vncentfilmerset

    http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?LbX3

  • June 14, 2005, 4:58 p.m. CST

    I wouldn't say I'm a purist...

    by Devil'sOwn

    ... but Prof. X and Cyclops are pretty much essential to the whole story, Merlin and King Arthur, y'know? I do not care what they do with other storylines, but the Fate of the Phoenix absolutely requires Scott to touch her humanity, and Xavier to put the psionic smackdown on her.

  • June 14, 2005, 5:02 p.m. CST

    Actually Ribbons...

    by LilOgre

    Your point about the Sentinels is wrong on two counts. First, Singer had developed them for X2 and had to abandon them due to budget. Second, the Sentinels take other forms than the "giant robot" one that you mention. Yes - it is the most well known form. But in other storylines like Operation Zero Tolerance they took a humanoid form as they were implanted in unsuspecting and innocent humans - making them that much harder for the X-Men to fight. Prime movers in Sentinel storylines like Dr. Stephen Lang were government agents and therefore the Sentinels could have EASILY been involved in the arc of the X-MEN franchise. Since Singer wanted to put them in X2 with Stryker they would seem a natural for X3. See here for a link to the Sentinel maquette: http://www.xmenfilms.net/exclusive/sentinel1.html And see here for an explanation as to why no Sentinels - aka budget: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/news/articles/1405.asp Enough said.

  • June 14, 2005, 5:14 p.m. CST

    Prior Walter, are you serious?

    by MasterWhedon

    Because it has me angry how fucking Goddamn awful that shit you just typed is. If that was ever even considered... I shudder at the thought that the entire movie would ride on Storm's Christ-like abilities. I've never been a huge Storm fan to begin with, but that shit is utterly RIDICULOUS.

  • June 14, 2005, 5:28 p.m. CST

    Oh, Christ...

    by MasterWhedon

    Forge is in the comics. He's actually a pretty cool character who can make pretty much any machine or device you can (or can't) think of. I like how he was used in your previous post, but NOT as the villain who takes away everyone's power. WTF, man?

  • June 14, 2005, 5:33 p.m. CST

    PLEASE ACTUALLY STOP AND READ THIS

    by Hedidthat

    If this is really where the x-men franchise is headed then the most people can look forward to is when the license is up that another studio snatches the rights and starts fresh. With most fans of a comics turned into movies you have to let go of the guidelines that are setup in the books which sucks and see what box your usual favorite series is going to be thrown into.i just wish somebody could do a movie based on source material and stay true to it damn they did that already with Basin city.People stop rereading this script and excepting it.If this script ends up being a hype tool then Im the first to clap and smile and say thank you for tricking me and then delivering something totally different then this version and coming with a great unleaked story line and a great movie. Below are mutliple comments on some of the best posts on this subject and the reason why they are good so if you want to know which posts are worth taking a glance these are some of them in along line um...crap? by Greenleaf1-reason a good point was made if jean can't control her powers as phoenix then whats the point of a upgrade and killing scott off as soon as jean comes back i thought her love for him was part of the reason she.....oh never mind im thinking again X3 should practically write itself, yet their giving us this? by Beotaimh-the reason this has got be one of the best things I've heard plot and story wise for this series of movies yet.You can't spell it out any better then this, it would be the most logical direction to go and setup another film In the way comics to do you conclude one story and right around the corner bam something bigger and better. Beotaimh thats just using your brain i hope this just reaches the right outlet this seems like a realistic direction they would have gone. MachinaMan by aheartapart-reason why it seems people dislike halle berry if she said something bad about comic movies in the begining you better believe this was going to happen but damn to this extant let it go people let it go The 2006 Race-to-the-Bottom-of-the-Box-Office by lynxpro- the reason we are getting the keys handed to us on how to make some type of change. TEN THINGS WRONG WITH THIS MOVIE by teddanson37-reason if you look at that least everyone is going to pick at least 6 things of the 10 Kinberg says this review is BS by crazywill722-reason i read that article also but it only made me think that there are small changes or that we are being drawn to this version while there is a totally different version out there floating around somewhere(we can only hope) to give us more of a suprise. I'm no hardcore X-Men fan by Bob of the Shire-reason if we are stuck with this version calling it 2.5 is the best label it can be given. Misdirected frustration at Halle by MachinaMan-reason if Halle Berry was not black and demanded all these things everybody would shut the hell up about it or do they hate her because of comments she made earlier about the franchise and comic book movies personally i think its both Let's start this whole boycott thing off early with Fantastic Four by IndustryKiller!-reason the truth was spoken we only watch these movies cause there all we have and lets be honest we are taking what we are being given and hell we want seconds. follow this link by kancerx-reason its the link to complain people use it http://www.newscorp.com/management/20film.htm I actually predicted... by Childe Roland-reason this is another good direction to go please READ NOW IF YOU HAVE NOT damn it i wish this was the script X-cellent Talkback. by Devil'sOwn-reason sticking to the logical order of leadership from the books Let's all take a deep breath... by SidS-reason stop using halle berry as a scape goat in the end how much can she really affect the movie she's being cattered to who gives a flying middle finger upside down, i thought movies where good because of scripts,directors and dare i say it.....actors, but thats just me and my crazy talk I say things like "don't kill cyclops "and "I want a better story". KILLING OFF CYCLOPS MASSIVE ERROR!!!!!!!! by thunderbird77-reason it makes more and more sense when you read it I'm sorry but.... by oisin5199-This person has a damn brain and uses it

  • June 14, 2005, 5:33 p.m. CST

    I'll Say It Again...

    by drew mcweeny

    ... every word Prior Walter has written here is wrong. Nothing he's written about is in the script. Not one thing. It's not an older draft. It's not a newer draft. It's not X3 at all.

  • June 14, 2005, 5:53 p.m. CST

    LilOgre and Prior Walter

    by Ribbons

    LilOgre - okay, so they did plan to use the Sentinels. Fine. I never said the only incarnation of the Sentinels was a gigantic robot. But take a look at everybody else's "treatments." They're not expecting humanoids. "Along comes a juicy government contract for the ultimate anti-mutant weapon, and the winning design just happens to be a giant ass-kicking robot. Here come the Sentinels." That's just one, among dozens. Almost all of them mention Sentinels. I'm sure they're not all thinking of the Bastion-style Sentinels that you are. And again, I say you can wait and get your fix in Transformers. If they introduce Sentinels in some future movie, fine, whatever. It'll make you all happy I guess. It's just not this thing that *has* to happen, and I honestly don't get it anyway. And anyway, it has to be established in some believable way (Yes. I used the word "believable" when talking about a comic book movie) if they're gonna do it. Some dude can't just win a contast and presto, "here come the Sentinels." ************** As for PriorWalter, I don't know where he's getting his information from, but it's more than likely he's just trying to mess with you guys. I'm pretty sure he was the gentleman who said a certain character died (they don't) over in the 'Serenity' TalkBack.

  • June 14, 2005, 5:59 p.m. CST

    By the way, I followed your link

    by Ribbons

    And look what Bryan Singer himself actually had to say about Sentinels: "But we felt, for 'X2,' the concept of giant robots is a difficult sell. But it's definitely something we may have room for in the future." It seems to me that the maquette was designed during the embryonic stages of the film, not something that was necessarily (there's that word again) destined to be part of 'X2' but for the $8 million the production designers said it would have cost.

  • June 14, 2005, 6:19 p.m. CST

    Ribbons, Sentinels, etc...

    by LilOgre

    The point is Ribbons that the Sentinels are one of the ultimate foes of the X-MEN and should therefore be represented on screen at some point - as opposed to a serum or whatever. Yeah - they are giant robots in their traditional manifestation and yes that would be expensive. But if you are of the belief that Giant Robots are not believable then either (1) they could think of ways AROUND that to re-present (look what Raimi did with Green Goblin) ala the Bastion/Humanoid versions (this was clearly something Singer wanted to do. He may have said it would have been a tough sell but something tells me it was more about the budget) or (2) if whatever director is ultimately working on a sequel does not want to re-think them for a film version, I hardly think the implausibity of Giant Robots on-screen is out of the question in this day and age (see STAR WARS, LOTR, etc...). And I still think that the franchise, whether in X3 or X4 (however unlikely that is), must eventually go in some kind of Apocalyptic direction - of which the Sentinels are the natural choice espeically if they tie in with Shaw and the Hellfire Club. And I say hell yeah to the TRANSFORMERS too. What's wrong with that? Could be cool or it could totally suck. But I am not really a fan of that beyond the original series which I have not seen in years.

  • June 14, 2005, 6:26 p.m. CST

    One more thing

    by LilOgre

    I do agree with you Ribbons that if the Sentinels are ever introduced it has to be in an original way. The whole idea of the government creating them and just using them against the X-MEN is lame.

  • June 14, 2005, 6:32 p.m. CST

    Again

    by Ribbons

    Stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that 'Transformers' was gonna suck. I just said it's probably an easier property to introduce giant robots into. Also, if the maquette's any proof, they most definitely were not going with the humanoid versions of Sentinels, but what you're saying is in essence what I said anyway (if they're going to do it, they could and should think of a way to pull it off without being too too implausible), so I'm not sure whether or not you're trying to argue with me or agree with me. Also, something tells you it was more about budget than anything else? That means they totally re-wrote the script just because the Sentinels would have put the production 8 million dollars over budget. Something tells me that it was an avenue that was initially explored and then abandoned and the people whose job it is to design those types of things have convinced themselves that the primary roadblock was the money. Since there's no definitive proof, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Lastly, I never said "a serum or whatever" was cooler than Sentinels. I'm not that big of a fan of Sentinels, but that's not to say you're not allowed to be. But the primary conflict in the X-Men series should be about humans and mutants co-existing. If they can pull off the Sentinel angle and still keep the prejudice part of the story in focus (as opposed to "holy shit, killer robots") amidst all the character drama, great, more power to them.

  • June 14, 2005, 6:33 p.m. CST

    Okay

    by Ribbons

    It appears you were agreeing with me on that one point. I was writing while you posted. Ah, the craziness.

  • June 14, 2005, 6:41 p.m. CST

    Win a walk-on role in X3

    by HurricaneRobby

    Too bad it's not a contest to be a walk-on director.

  • June 14, 2005, 6:44 p.m. CST

    forgot link

    by HurricaneRobby

    http://www.muchmusic.com/promo/fantasticfour05/

  • June 14, 2005, 6:47 p.m. CST

    It's not about the robots...

    by oisin5199

    The Sentinels are important because they are a method of CONTROL that leads to a terror state in which mutants are hunted and exterminated. It doesn't matter if they're giant robots or an army of Marvins. The fact that they're not human provides opportunities for the x-men to not hold back, and they are the violent intermediary between humans and mutants that humans ultimately cannot control. The look or size is unimportant unless you want to slavishly follow the comic. I think the idea is that things are so scary in the world that the government is complicit with a madman (Trask) who has no idea about the consequences of what he has created. That's what I call escalation.

  • June 14, 2005, 6:50 p.m. CST

    it's time to stop this nonsense.

    by Vncentfilmerset

    let's say no to no to Rothman and his rushed production , no to Ratner and his lack of vision! http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?LbX3

  • June 14, 2005, 6:51 p.m. CST

    oisin

    by Ribbons

    I could see that.

  • June 14, 2005, 6:52 p.m. CST

    "could" as in future tense, not past tense

    by Ribbons

    As in good post, oisin

  • June 14, 2005, 7:05 p.m. CST

    dstrbo1

    by JSheaStanley

    Thanks. I'm pretty sure if people concentrated on the real world, instead of getting all worked up creating petitions and organizing protests over what fictional characters are going to fictitiously die in a fictitious movie, I'd have a greater tolerance for the human race. Redeem yourselves people: http://www.onecampaign.org/

  • June 14, 2005, 7:25 p.m. CST

    X3

    by Trinity28

    O.K. amidst all this spewing of venom I need to interject. I have not been a comics fan since I could read-I am also a woman, which sets me apart from most of you (I think). Only in probably the last 7 years, have I been indoctrinated by my "own devil" to the world of the X-Men. I am familiar with most of the storylines that have been mentioned, but with some I am hopelessly lost. The script outlined here does not seem too promising. I have a great affection for Prof X, so the thought of him dying sets my teeth on edge. Wolverine CANNOT be a minor lackey in the background, his very character makes this impossible. I have never been a fan of HB's Storm (what's with the bangs anyway-she looks like Cindy Brady with white hair), so the thought of her garnering more airtime is repellant. Angel's character seems like a really cool addition, though I will miss Nightcrawler and Colossus. The Dark Phoenix aspect has me really excited, as far as that goes they could have made the whole movie revolve on that storyline and I would have been happy. Don't kill Cyclops either, he is integral to Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix's destiny. If she killed him she would not suffer herself to exist. As for the dreaded Rothman-apparently this is the way Hollywood works. After being exposed to the corporate schmucks in Project Greenlight, the way this man works is believable to me. I really don't know what is going on with Arad and Marvel-maybe now it's out of their hands and they are trying to put a good face on it(however difficult that may be). All of that being said, I had such high hopes for X3. It really saddens me to think it will suck. If they were going to make crappy X-Men movies they should have started with the first one, instead of giving me my fix twice and now leaving me with tremor withdrawals for Singer.

  • June 14, 2005, 7:28 p.m. CST

    Why, Fox, Whhyyy!!!

    by tourist eater 22

    I'd Rather see a Bryan Singer directed X3 in 2010, Than a piece of crap SFX-fest next year!

  • June 14, 2005, 7:29 p.m. CST

    Sentinels can't be realized

    by eule

    Although i'd like the idea of introducing sentinels, its not an abolute must have and not very realistic. How about having a x-factor like team hunting down mutants? Lets face it, we're never gonna see any sentinels. With a cast that expensive its just out of reach. And personally i think the x-men are not about giant robot adversaries.Go take the Brood or the ultimate sinister, just to name a few

  • June 14, 2005, 7:32 p.m. CST

    Sounds Like The Death Of The Franchise

    by Barron34

    Seriously, I own the first two movies on DVD and saw the films in the theater a few times. If this flick comes out as bad as it sounds, I won't be putting my money towards it, and neither will a lot of people. Who thinks up this crap? Cyclops is an integral X-Men character, and the only reason that they are killing him is that the writers are too stupid to write the character properly. He was under-developed in the first two movies, but where he was used, he was written and acted competently. As with some of the other characters, I was hoping to see more and more development as the franchise wore on, given that X-Men is basically an ensemble with a few star characters. One of the best things about the Singer movies is that they showed continuity and suggested a lot more of the depth of all of the true backstories of the characters. This is a big part of what made me happy about the films: the promise of future films that would pay off moments suggested by the earlier films. I was looking forward to Cyclops regaining and then losing Jean again during the whole Phoenix arc. Now, they are just killing the character off arbitrarily because they do not know how to write him properly. It cheapens the whole effect, and disrupst the suspension of disbelief that the first two movies helped to create. When you disregard the source material and continuity, and go for cheap, arbitrary, and unjustified moments like the killing of Cyclops mentioned in the script review, it just fucks the entire movie, and so the entire franchise. Fans will simply stop believing in the story,a nd so the franchise will be stillborn. The useless killing of Cyclops is just the prime example of many from the script review that indicates that this film is likely to going to suck and will particularly piss off fans of the X-Men like myself. Killing off Professor X as well? WTF!?! They seem to be using a bastardized fragment of the Dark Phoenix storyline without any rationale or dramatic sense. Why is Jean Grey killing people for no reason? It is not explained at all in this script review. She seems to have no motivation whatsoever. It is just incredibly stupid. The Dark Phoenix storyline is one of the most important and famous storylines in comic-book history, certainly in the history of the X-Men, and it is only given the most cursory treatment here. It has been completely cheapened, robbing it of any dramatic impact. From the sound of it, it is not even the main storyline in the script!?! Instead, the main focus is on some stupid MacGuffin/Virus, with Jean Grey just turning evil (for no explained or justified reason) in the background. Jean Grey murders the man she loves, and then (apparently) goes on to murder her surrogate father (Professor X), and there is no build-up and no explanation!?! STUPID, and CHEAP. Fuck this franchise! Either film the Dark Phoenix Saga properly, or don't film it at all. These people really fucked up when they let Singer go. They should be on their knees begging him to come back, because this franchise is about to go down the toilet. Stupid. They should have done whatever it takes to get Singer to film X3 and X4, AND THEN have him produce and supervise the following X-Films. At that point, the franchise would have had so much momentum, it would have gone on for at least a decade, possibly even more, like the Bond films. Now, the whole franchise is going to go belly up. Dumb.

  • June 14, 2005, 7:34 p.m. CST

    by Dog Of Mystery

    I will no doubt get banned and deleted for asking this, but why is it 'fair use' for Moriarty to post copyrighted material in order to mock it, but when Scorched Planet did the same thing to his screenplay he got his lawyers to shut them down with cease and desist letters? Seems a little bit, what's the word, hypocritical. However its true that X3 needs to be made by Singer in the same way that fat guy had to make all three of those films about the gay midgets.

  • June 14, 2005, 7:42 p.m. CST

    Dog of Mystery

    by Ribbons

    There probably is actually a difference, legally. Then again, there might not be. If you're actually autoMatisse, then you're probably not listening anyway. The thing is, I'm actually surprised it's taken someone this long to bring the issue up. All I have to say definitively is that at least Moriarty and TheBigHurt or whatever the name is are calling attention to something people are actually emotionally invested in. The dissections and cheap laughs at Moriarty's expense were nothing but low blows from a group of goons who didn't like the man. Whether or not Fox cares what we think, there's a difference.

  • June 14, 2005, 7:52 p.m. CST

    San Diego Comic Con

    by bryce

    Y

  • June 14, 2005, 7:54 p.m. CST

    GKR

    by halfmahalfn

    Giant killer robots or no giant killer robots? I've always been down with the idea of a decent look at one of the X-Men's most celebrated foes. And my reasons were well voiced by Oisin above. After all - we only got a glimpse of when in the mansion scenes in X2 of a no-holds barred X Men fight (forget the Deathstrike scene - apart from the climax that pretty much bored me). So the idea of Wolverine going feral after seeing a young mutant offed by one of the sentinals is just too damn appealing. Likewise the legendary 'fastball special' move. Which would be followed by the 'claws embedded in the side of the sentinal and ripping the fuck out of it as you tear towards the ground' move. Childe Roland seems to be on too something as well. Good solid thinking and a basis for a screenplay that connects the dots and stays true to the characters (I'd can the Sinister ending though, seems to much along the lines of "same bat time, same bat channel" camp). If they could bring it in around budget. But really, who am I fooling - this X3 thing looks like one big no-teeth tounge kiss. All the pieces seem in place, but then you get in there...

  • June 14, 2005, 8 p.m. CST

    The brood would be rude.

    by halfmahalfn

    And, I'm sorry, but the brood can not ever be looked at as a viable option for X-men films. Might as well have a Wolverine vs Alien vs Predator clusterfuck. It just gets too silly. Of course, Rothman's ears will be pricking up at the idea.

  • June 14, 2005, 8:17 p.m. CST

    Nerves man... it's digging at my nerves...

    by tourist eater 22

    AAAHHH!!!...(calming down) This doesn't even sound close to what Singer has been setting up in the previous films. Cyclops is the leader!Killing him would be a waste... Marsden isn't over paid and he hasn't made a bad Cyclops.Jean killing him by accident or otherwise is stupid!The Phoenix Saga I know is the one where Cyclops and Jean's conection was what calmed her down.Also, Nightcrawler should be with Storm,the teen love triangle is OKish,Colossus is awesome and needs to be graduating to full-fledged X-man,Pyro needs to Burn down the mansion,but Iceman needs to stop it(Full body Ice Armor PLEASE!)Ice VS. Fire Battle,maybe Professor X should team up with Magneto to defeat Dark Phoenix, Sentinels aren't even close to matching the look and feel of the films,they'd be over the top, in the Future... there will be...ROBOTS!!!kinda feel,no thank you,also I know I saw Angel's wings in the X-ray sheets in the background of the weapon-X facility where you had the Wolverine/Deathstrike Brawl in X2. This should mean metalic wings,just to clarify for those of you who didn't pay attention to the metal everything-upgradetastic theme of the Weapon-x program... OH! One last thing... Rothman Sucks!

  • June 14, 2005, 8:20 p.m. CST

    Nerves man... it's digging at my nerves...

    by tourist eater 22

    AAAHHH!!!...(calming down) This doesn't even sound close to what Singer has been setting up in the previous films. Cyclops is the leader!Killing him would be a waste... Marsden isn't over paid and he hasn't made a bad Cyclops.Jean killing him by accident or otherwise is stupid!The Phoenix Saga I know is the one where Cyclops and Jean's conection was what calmed her down.Also, Nightcrawler should be with Storm,the teen love triangle is OKish,Colossus is awesome and needs to be graduating to full-fledged X-man,Pyro needs to Burn down the mansion,but Iceman needs to stop it(Full body Ice Armor PLEASE!)Ice VS. Fire Battle,maybe Professor X should team up with Magneto to defeat Dark Phoenix, Sentinels aren't even close to matching the look and feel of the films,they'd be over the top, in the Future... there will be...ROBOTS!!!kinda feel,no thank you,also I know I saw Angel's wings in the X-ray sheets in the background of the weapon-X facility where you had the Wolverine/Deathstrike Brawl in X2. This should mean metalic wings,just to clarify for those of you who didn't pay attention to the metal everything-upgradetastic theme of the Weapon-x program... OH! One last thing... Rothman Sucks!

  • June 14, 2005, 8:41 p.m. CST

    So what have we learned?

    by Devil'sOwn

    Well, for one thing, killing the good Prof. is a horrible idea. He is the father of the Dream, the Yin to Magneto's Yang. Woe betide any responsible for screwing with Patrick Stewart. It's pretty much flipping the bird to anyone who saw and liked X2. One of the many cool scenes is toward the end when the X-Men appear before the President, and Xavier says, "We will be watching you." Now unless the administration has undergone a catastrophic change between films (Hmm, art imitating life?), at this point there should be no antagonism towards superpowered mutants from from the government at least. And as far as the Sentinels (in whatever form they would settle on)are concerned, I think it's just great for the team to have something inhuman to lash out against, just not at this point.

  • June 14, 2005, 9:08 p.m. CST

    X-Men

    by hip_12

    If they want to make the movie really good they should go back to the comic roots, just put the Pheonix storyline and the Apoclyse storyline together while avoid the outer space parts and the movie will be great. They should also make the charcters exactly like the fucking comics!!!! Rogue should have been flying and throwing shit at the bad guys so far, she's too weak, she needs to be exactly like the counrty smart alec charcater in the comics. Give Cyclopes bigger parts, he can could have been real useful in x2 and he still can be useful, just write him in damn it! The Pheonix character better be a good written charcter or the audience will be disapointed if she turn weak whenus fans knows she's stronger than the rest of the X-Men. The Storm and Wolverine love idea is good because when Jean comes back she'll be pissed at wolverine and storm which is a perfect conflict for the movie making Jean wanting to hurt the X-men even more. Juggernut has to be one of the stars of the show. With great sfx it will be a great movie.

  • June 14, 2005, 9:09 p.m. CST

    Storylines and budgetary constrictions

    by Ivan_Mtl

    I think we have to be realistic in our expectations as to what storylines from the comic books could be translated successfully to the big screen. Sure, it is nice to imagine a Dark Phoenix storyline taking place on the moon with the X-men battling the Shi'ar Imperial Guard with the fate of the universe in the balance, but that just isn't financially feasible. Just consider the cost of special effects, and the enormous cast involved alone. Also, the X-universe (at least as how it is portrayed in the movies) is much more "grounded" in reality. To introduce aliens from other planets (be they Shi'ar or the Brood) is simply asking the average non-comics fan public to swallow too much. I could see a storyline involving the use of Sentinels because the groundwork has already been laid (anti-mutant hysteria). Another Brotherhood of Evil Mutants?... been there, done that. A secret "Hellfire Club" of wealthy, powerful, and prominent political figures, who also happen to be mutants secretly furthering their agenda, would be a logical way to introduce someone like Warren Worthington/Angel. A Genosha type storyline might be another way to go. How would the rest of the world (humans and mutants alike) react to a mutant genocide being committed by a foreign country. Time travel? Although I do love John Byrne's original "Days of Future Past" storyline, I think the filmmakers would be asking the public again to accept too many fantastic elements for one movie. Personally, I think stories work best when you introduce one fantasy or science-fiction element (in this case, people being born with extraordinary gifts) in an otherwise real world setting.

  • June 14, 2005, 9:35 p.m. CST

    Fuck all this shit... the god has returned !!!

    by IAmLegolas

    Terry Gilliam's THE BROTHERS GRIMM ... http://movies.channel.aol.com/franchise/exclusives/the_brothers_grimm_movie

  • June 14, 2005, 9:40 p.m. CST

    Alas, I was never a Transformers fan.

    by Devil'sOwn

    As I suggested in a previous TalkBack, there is a way to depict the Dark Phoenix saga without having to introduce too many outre elements of the halcyon Claremont days- When the shit hits the fan, instead of showing old girl snack on G-type star in a galaxy far, far away, have her consume a nuclear power plant, causing all manner of carange, mayhem and despair, thus forcing the government and the X-Men to take her down. And the Hellfire Club would be a GREAT way to introduce Warren Kenneth Worthington III, the high-flyin' Angel.

  • June 14, 2005, 9:41 p.m. CST

    trilogy problems

    by tourist eater 22

    I'd like to see character development,and In huge quantities of screen time.Like maybe they should hold off on the the whole "Every good thing we have going for this franchise needs to die!" theme, just because they hinted to Jean not actually being dead at the end of X2,doesn't mean in X3 WHAM! she has to be there does it? For instance, Magneto officially has sided with Mystique and Pyro in the 2nd film. That makes 3 mutants Vs. the entire team they've collected for the good guys, which is near 9 or 10.THe third movie should have Magneto building up bad guys and the ending having them fight to a stale mate but in the process build the films to much grander story ideas like the Sentinels for X4,the Dark Phoenix Saga for X5, and then wrap up the second trilogy with X6 in which Apocalypse comes in and starts kickin some A$$.

  • Read above. Nuff said.

  • June 14, 2005, 9:56 p.m. CST

    yep

    by blackthought

    totally in agreement with you legalos...gilliam is a master...trailer looks gilliamish which is fantastic. now on the x-men...fuck them for killing cyclops, they should know how to write him better. he's one of my fav x-characters. he's the leader of of the freaking team. some may find him dull and boring but he copes with a lot of shit...you know with his wife and love dying 899 times, becoming a crazy fiery entity of destruction...hell even a clone of his beloved. he's also got to stand up for what mutant relations can be with non-mutants and to hold those principles...plus he's got to deal with really really scruffy basketcase of fury who hs claws. how its written now, its like rothman wants this franchise to tank...oh wait, he probably does...even though he is "geek" in his own words. anyway gilliam has 2 movies out this year, batman begins looks funtastic, kong will delight...so there's material to help me forget these 2 acts of x3...then i realize this is apparently coming out next year end of may...so the wounds will still be fresh...bastards...rothman is skilled...skilled at making me grimmace...not as much as stephen sommers or uwe boll though, but he's getting there.

  • June 14, 2005, 10:01 p.m. CST

    Concerning the good things in this script...

    by Nachokoolaid

    Yes, Beast an Angel both seem to be good things in this script. But THAT'S IT. Beast and Angel are like two scoops of really great ice cream. However, when you put those two scoops in with a bowl of shit, I don't care how good the ice cream is, I'm still not going to fucking eat it. ARE YOU HEARING US, FOX?

  • June 14, 2005, 10:01 p.m. CST

    Psylocke

    by tourist eater 22

    I hate the whole Wolverine is doing Storm idea, why not introduce Psylocke, and have Psylocke with Wolverine,Nightcrawler with Storm, and Jean with Cyclops. That or get Wolverine to have an affair with Jean. they have been hinting to it since the first movie, and for a long time in the comics.

  • June 14, 2005, 10:09 p.m. CST

    Exactly! Nachokoolaid's got it!

    by tourist eater 22

    I love the additions of Beast and Angel.I just didn't imagine them to be added like that...I'm sad to say this but I'd rather see them in X4,If adding them in X3 is going to destroy everything Singer was trying to build on in the previous films.

  • June 14, 2005, 10:38 p.m. CST

    X-Men's Saved !!!

    by hip_12

    http://www.iesb.net/upcomingfilm/movie060805.php go to this site you guys and hear the interview with Brett Ratner so you can hear the explenation for this poor excuse for a story plot.

  • June 14, 2005, 11:05 p.m. CST

    x-3 and life

    by mykreed

    I consider all the talkbackers here in some way my people. we are a different time lost breed. people who actually care about something for longer than five minutes. we all remember pre special edition....cool kids: "star wars is for fags, you fucking nerd" etc. post special editions....same cool kids: oh I love star wars, always have, vader rules yo! now , with that in mind , we have to realize and understand the sole important fact of reality. we are always and will always be there BUT NO ONE FUCKING LISTENS TO US!!! we live in a world that makes people believe that we have a say, but apparently we do not and never will unless we rise to an agreement that all of us nerds, geeks, wads and various other forms of social outcasts need to stop letting this shit happen to us. we were the kids that got teased and bullyed in high school, and now the same thing is happening to us again! sorry for the melodrama of this crappy little rant, but we need to stop spending money on shit, and say fuck off to the liscenses and laws and use our powers to make some kick ass fan films. fight big hollywood, rise up in the burbs

  • June 14, 2005, 11:15 p.m. CST

    Wrong link and why we need a Danger Room, more Cyclops and Colos

    by oisin5199

    Phew, long title, long thread. First, Hip_12, that's an old link to Rothman, not Ratner. Second, it occurred to me after some X-Men reading that we NEED a Danger Room sequence with the whole team. This can show what the previous movies have not shown and is so crucial to the X-Men: teamwork. The reason why Cyclops is so important. He can get the team whipped into shape like a finely oiled machine, he could inspire his troops like a good general. The reason why when he's absent from the group, the other members feel it. And to the person who mentioned the Fastball Special: Amen! And about the character of Colossus, who a few have mentioned: Of course, there's a great opportunity for major ass kicking with the metal man, but there's so many great opportunities for actual character development here. I just read an issue in which Piotr and his brother Mikhail have a conversation about how Piotr (Colossus) sees beneath the surface as an artist, but it's only forms. He is literally multilayered. I remember a fantastic Colossus moment when (I think) he's mourning the death of his sister and someone (probably Kitty) tries to comfort him and connect, and instead he chooses to armor up, to hide behind the metal layer, cutting off any possibility for human connection. Brilliant stuff. Hell, screw the movies, I say there should be a great tv series (I'd even take another cartoon, if it was more adult) with room for longer character arcs and story arcs and Big Bads. A nice dream. If only they could get Joss.... And one final defense of HB: the one thing that HB's Storm has gotten right in the movies is her maternal quality (perhaps maternal is wrong, more like big sister, mentor), her empathy and a little bit of the anger. The scene with Senator Kelly in the first and with Nightcrawler in the second were pretty strong, IMO. Showed an intense emotional side. Where she sucks is in action sequences when we're supposed to believe she's a powerful goddess. Two words: Gina Torres. That's all I'm sayin.

  • June 14, 2005, 11:17 p.m. CST

    And another thing about the Sentinels

    by LilOgre

    Just kidding! But Oisin is right - the Sentinels do bring about horrible consequences far beyond the imagination of the government. The early Bishop storylines were great in examining that topic. And besides we do get to see some cool giant robots on the screen!!!

  • June 14, 2005, 11:37 p.m. CST

    Is it Electra 2??? Cyclops cant die!! Where is Bryan Singer must

    by Brazilian_in_rio

    Are they completelly insane or just crazy???? Ok, I understand they may not want to use Jim Marsden in full lenght because they just don't have a business sense and are emotionally incapacitated. He went to make Superman. So what? Big deal!! He is a good actor and Bryan Singer always seemed unpleased with the fact that he couldn't all his potencial either because of the big glasses or simply because in X2 his role was shortnened for story reasons. But killing one of the greatest characters? Are they nuts???? If the movie is like that I surel as hell wont see it nor buy the dvd like I usually do. Terrible news. Just terrible!!!

  • June 15, 2005, 12:16 a.m. CST

    X3 official teaser poster...

    by Nachokoolaid

    The official teaser poster is up at JoBlo.com. I think it funny, considering that Wolverine is supposed to be more of a minor character. *** Check it out **** http://www.joblo.com/index.php?id=7768

  • June 15, 2005, 12:26 a.m. CST

    official X3 website

    by Nachokoolaid

    I noticed on the bottom of the poster, there is an official website, but I wnet there, and it's not up yet. As soon as it is, I'm going to go there, and contact whoever runs it, or post in the forums daily how much I'm displeased with this script and Fox's raping of the characters. I suggest you do the same. If anyone knows when the site goes up, let us know.

  • June 15, 2005, 2:11 a.m. CST

    Non-descript evil masterminds SUCK ASS

    by CJA

    The worst parts of the first two films are the stupid plot devices. "The Machine" to turn all humans to mutant and the Cerebro killing all mutants/humans crap...just soooo poor. Why the hell would they re-use such a contrivance again? A serum to de-mutantify mutants? Sure its works in Whedon's comics, but c'mon, we've had enough of these criminal mastermind-grand-plans-to-take-over-the-world crap. With all the X-history and wealth of characters on the roster they can't think of something...i don't know..a bit more PERSONAL??? Why must there always be a non-descript bad guy who threatens the entire world? What's wrong with one pissed off mutant with a vendetta against another? Or the team having to band together to staop, say, one of their own???

  • June 15, 2005, 2:59 a.m. CST

    This Version is Unoriginal (and Halle isn't so bad)

    by adolfoliver

    Although I thought that the second X-movie was overall a good movie, the plot bothered because it was too similar to the first movie's plot. Now I read this junk and find out that is where they are headed once more. How unimaginative of the screenwriters. I think the producers should allow the Children of the Atom to take a breather this time around and not have them worry about saving mutantkind. Introduce some new characters, show the X-Men preforming your average superhero duties (rescuing civilians in danger, rampaging baddie, etc.) and pave the way for a larger storyline that could be completed in future installments. Although I do not dislike Halle Berry, there is no way she should be romantically involved with Wolverine. I think Halle redeemed herself quite nicely in the second film, the screenwriter's just need to do their research and read some back issues to find out which direction Ororo's character should be headed. I think it is important that they get her right because Storm is probably the most recognizable non-white superhero out there. And the X-Men are supposed to be about diversity. A character doesn't necessarily need a lot of dialog or screentime to make an impression, they just need a well written part. I'd also like to see Wolvie and Nightcrawler guzzling beer in a tavern in this movie. Kurt is German and Logan is Canadian. Those two factors should be enough to throw a bar scene into the movie. It could also be used to add some levity to an otherwise dark film or maybe facilitate a run in with drunk and irritable Cain Marko. I think all the producers really need to do is take everything down a notch. The X-Men can tackle Saving the World (again) in the next edition. All this movie has to do is build up to it. Above all else, the screenwriters absolutely need to do their research and read old storylines (preferrably Uncanny X-Men 95-200, imo).

  • June 15, 2005, 4:38 a.m. CST

    it's time to stop this nonsense.

    by Vncentfilmerset

    let's say no to Rothman and his rushed production , let's say no to Ratner! http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?LbX3

  • June 15, 2005, 5:20 a.m. CST

    YEAH!

    by hank quinlan

    This is some fucking balls out gauntlet throwing. Props to Drew for a big internet middle finger to Fox and its asshole execs. Seriously, I LOVE it. It's a shame that X2 will get such a lame follow up and a promising series will end so poorly. At least we got one truely great film out of it. As well, it is always so surprising to hear that Singer (who I'm sure is no prize to deal with) can have so much success and be treated like shit. Fuck it. I'd leave to make Superman. I'm sure it will be WAY better then a half assed X-men movie directed by...BWHHAHAHAHAHAHA Brett Ratner. Please get someone good to make the Wolverine movie. PLEASE.

  • June 15, 2005, 7:18 a.m. CST

    by wrbenson

  • June 15, 2005, 7:32 a.m. CST

    This falls to my thesis...that is third movies in Super Hero fra

    by wrbenson

    Think about it. Name one good third movie in Super Hero franchises. Superman III? SUCKED! Batman Returns? AN ABORTION! Blade Trinity? Would be nice if Blade were in it. Frankly this is going the way I worried it would when I saw the end of X2. I was like "Great...they left it open. If what happens with third movies happens Jean will probably come back and kill like Scott or Professor X or something stupid like that." (THIS IS NOT A JOKE I ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT THIS WITH MY BUDDY WHO I WENT TO SEE IT WITH). It was like, pick the most far out idea they'd never do cause it's just dumb...and now I find out...it's real? CRAP! See...I think by the third movie of a franchise three things happen. 1: Egos. Actors and studios alike start thinking they're more important than the story. They start making heavy handed suggestions that if not taken can cause them to walk. Studios cave due to factor 2. The almighty dollar. At this point studios are seeing dollar signs everywhere. They start trying to run the movie to make it more "marketable" to kids. With that you get nipples on a bat suit, a lame videogame robot type villain, or a smarmy smart ass character who you just want to punch. (though I like Ryan Reynolds normally). 3: You start trying to put square pegs in round holes. OUTRAGEOUS guest stars as villains etc. Richard Pryor as a COMPUTER PROGRAMMER?! ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER AS A MEGALOMANIAC BENT ON WORLD DOMINATION?!...oh wait..never mind. Typecasting at it's best. Anyway...I have no doubt that Grammer is not the last "name" we'll hear about. I'm sure Warren Sr. will be someone like Matt Leblanc or something like that. I imagine the only immune franchise to my theory (and thereby keeping it from becoming a law) is Spiderman III. Because Sam Raimi stayed on (another staple of III's...the team that made the first two great doesn't stay in control...meaning someone else comes along trying to fix something that isn't broken. Singer left this movie on autopilot for the next guy. BUT NOOOOO...They have to try to Ted Stryker it in, and crash it utterly), I'm sure that movie will be as good as the last two. In fact...I'm willing to bet if he doesn't want to make Spidey IV...it won't be made. Sony isn't stupid. They'll leave us wanting more to woo him back in 5 years and make more money. Here's hoping that when this fails (and it won't...another rule is...the third film does ok due to habit. However the fourth film is where they die.), Fox will put this on the shelf for five years. Then have someone come along and pretend X3 didn't happen (a la Singer with Superman...). Thanks

  • June 15, 2005, 7:53 a.m. CST

    HeDidThat: I did as you asked...

    by InBloom

    ....and made a point of reading your post. Unfortunately, I found it ot be one of the most incomprehensible things I've ever seen on AICN [and that's saying something]. Sorry buddy, but if you're going to take the time to give us a summation of the talkback, you may as well make it legible.

  • June 15, 2005, 8:34 a.m. CST

    its a dooozy

    by Krangelus

    I AGREE

  • June 15, 2005, 9:35 a.m. CST

    Ummm... Just a few questions

    by monkey tamer

    About Halle taking over the X-Men Franchise... Where in that review does it say she takes front and center. In fact, wasn't that one of the problems with the film is that no one character takes centerstage. I can see how you can come to that assumption though, because look at Cyclops, when he was leader he got a TON of screentime. I think this review is basically worthless in determining how good or bad this film will be. Has anyone besides this one person read it (and I mean the whole thing, not 2/3 of it)? How old is this script? Do we know if they are still changing things (my guess yes)? Other things to point out: Cyclops = Not dead. Unless Jean chops off his head and eats his heart, he is not dead. Prof X = Maybe dead. Does the reviewer tell us how he dies (that part was "edited" for our protection)? Does he go "poof" like Cyclops or does he explode into little tiny pieces. Mystique = She gets her powers back for the absolutely mind-numbing conclusion that totally turns the movie around. Could be wrong, but the reviewer doesn't know either. Don't go see it, sign petitions, but no one here knows if this movie will be good or bad. And as far as the demutant "cure", the other two movies had equally lame plots and you loved them.

  • June 15, 2005, 9:47 a.m. CST

    For believability's sake...

    by ejcarter9

    ...Iceman should NEVER "ice up", the Brood and the Shi'ar should NEVER show up, Cable - no, the techno-organic virus... nuh-uh... and many, many other things that just go too far into la-la land should NEVER APPEAR!

  • June 15, 2005, 9:51 a.m. CST

    Devil'sOwn, You mean Mrs. Clinton wins the next election?

    by ejcarter9

    to quote Devil'sOwn - Now unless the administration has undergone a catastrophic change between films (Hmm, art imitating life?)... ___________ If Mrs. Clinton wins in 08 then I'd call you a prophet worthy of weekly columns in our supermarket tabloids.

  • June 15, 2005, 9:52 a.m. CST

    Perhaps we should all...

    by SidS

    relax, maybe the script will be tweaked and changed. You never know! Lets have some hope people, we are all X-men fans here...just a little bit of hope. PS: Good action sequences is where people actually "act"! Fo example: I would've rather seen Jean and Storm outside the X-Jet while creating the tornadoes and deactivating the missiles in X2! Now that would've been action worth of the X-Men!

  • June 15, 2005, 10:29 a.m. CST

    Now stop and think just one damn minute

    by subtlety

    listen, all you folks going nuts about the deaths and de-mutations: This is only 2/3 of the movie. These things are MEANT to be troubling, because that's how they intend to create drama. Havn't you ever read a comic book? When was the last time someone important died and actually STAYED dead? All these plot elements have at least the CAPACITY to be satisfyingly resolved in the final act, which no one has yet reported on. If you're going to be worried, have faith in the writers and worry about the disasterous timeframe this movie is supposed to be completed in, and the very legitimate fear that this will cause budget constraints. Or the fact that Halle Berry (not a bad actress, but Natalie Portman Star Wars level catastrophic in the role) will apparently be carrying much of the plot. Or that a new director will leave to many subplots from the first two dead-ended. As for the derivative nature of the script, some informed directorial decisions could put the plot similarites in a different context which would make it much easier to view them as new and exciting. So quit freaking out, at least wait until we have a clearer idea of what is going to be happening. For all we know, Wolvie may wake up in the last scene with an "it was all a dream!" Also stop posting your own damn treatments.

  • June 15, 2005, 10:42 a.m. CST

    You owe me ten bucks...

    by Childe Roland

    ...FirstMan#01, 'cause Reze11even isn't me. I just have the one aicn account (had another years ago but forgot the password). Whoever Re is, he's one of about five folks in this talkback who happened to respond that they thought an idea I typed up (and it took 3 minutes, not 6) was better than the three-quarters of a story we got in the review above. If you don't agree, that's all cool with me. It cost me nothing to put it out there and I'm not too worried about impressing somebody who calls himself FirstMan anyway. I'll give you a chance to win back your money, though. 10 bucks says you can't resist the urge to try and come up with a witty rejoinder to this post. Aaaaaand go.

  • June 15, 2005, 11:03 a.m. CST

    ejcarter, actually I was referring to our current fearless leade

    by Devil'sOwn

    C'mon, don't get political on me. I just think it'd be awesome when, after DF scarfs a reactor, the Prez gets on tha TeeVee and... (Looking into the camera like a lost child in a department store)POTUS: My fellow Amuricans, today we recieved word that dangerous mutant destroyed a nu-cu-lar reactor...

  • June 15, 2005, 11:13 a.m. CST

    So, does Cyclops have to be dead in the comic, too??

    by cookylamoo

    And is Storm in for a Booty call from you know who?

  • June 15, 2005, 11:44 a.m. CST

    TopHat

    by oisin5199

    I totally agree with your opinion that they should have started with the original five when they were younger, like the 1999 series Children of the Atom (see my earlier post). They could have saved Wolverine and Storm for the second movie, with a whole conflict between the old team and the new team (Wolverine vs Cyclops and Angel over Jean. Storm vs. Cyclops over leadership - I mean conflict, not actual fighting, unless it's Danger Room. Hey - there's another great reason for a Danger Room sequence, the working out of internal team conflict). Unfortunately, when trying to sell an X-film, the most iconic figure associated with the X-Men is Wolverine (which is why the three claws for the teaser poster). So we got Wolverine. The first movie started in the middle with Logan and Rogue, which is fine, I just wish that it was the second movie and not the first, so we could have seen what made the dynamic between the original five and Xavier so special. The second film could have done the Wolverine and Rogue intro, with Storm and Nightcrawler added in without much back story needed (maybe a flashback to Africa and Germany). Save the Wolverine back story from X2 for a more developed Weapon X plot for the spinoff. The third film could have brought in Colossus, Kitty Pryde and Gambit. But that would have made too much sense story wise, and not enough sense marketing wise. I don't like the whole Rogue/Iceman/Kitty Pryde triangle. Kitty and Piotr (Colossus) should be together - she's intangible and he's very, very tangible. A great opposite couple. If there's a triangle, it should be Rogue/Iceman/Gambit. Anyway, that's probably the last thought...until the next one.

  • June 15, 2005, 11:45 a.m. CST

    Devil'sOwn, you started it

    by ejcarter9

    I just don't like leaving those kinds of comments unchallenged. Whatever your political leanings, don't assume everyone is in agreement. I could go on, but I'll leave it at that.

  • June 15, 2005, 12:12 p.m. CST

    ejcarter, I... "started it?"

    by Devil'sOwn

    Aw, man, what are you? 5?! First of all, I don't recall anyone askin' you a goddamned thing about what you liked!! Secondly, I did not "start" anything. You are un-fuckin'-believable. I made a simple observation. My "offense" was that I surmised it was common knowledge not everyone likes an overhaul of their government. Guess it depends on which America you live in. Third, motherfucker, if you percieved a challenge in what I said, than it was your own delusional problem. Please, don't tell me you're one o' them conservative, intolerant, right-wing assholes who shouts from the Bible-Belt that everyone who doesn't agree with you isn't allowed to have an opinion. I don't give...a ... FUCK... about "political leanings", you twat!!! Didja get that?!? This here's an entertainment website, Jeb. Spare us.

  • June 15, 2005, 12:38 p.m. CST

    BTW

    by Devil'sOwn

    I could be wrong, but I'd think that the former President would want to pass the info along to the next one not to fuck with a guy who could turn you into a Jerry's Kid in front of the whole damn country.

  • June 15, 2005, 12:47 p.m. CST

    Devil'sOwn

    by ejcarter9

    psst... hey, your tolerance is showing.

  • June 15, 2005, 12:53 p.m. CST

    Twinkies

    by Ribbons

    Better than Republicans and Democrats combined. Regardless of your political stance, you gotta love those Twinkies!! Take the hint guys.

  • June 15, 2005, 12:54 p.m. CST

    BTW

    by Ribbons

    By Twinkies I mean the delicious snack food with cream filling, not a racial slur. Peace out.

  • June 15, 2005, 1 p.m. CST

    Sense & Simplicity

    by Ultraman2000

    One of my ongoing frustrations with this series is that the X-Men haven't really functioned as a team. Neither of the first two films showed the team in action against a common foe, working in concert. Where's the filmic equivalent of the Fastball Special? What's notable about the X-Men is that their mutant abilities have alienated them from the rest of the world. Accordingly, they've become a pseudo-family, with Prof. X assuming the father role. I'd like to see a more leisurely-paced film focused on a handful of characters that really allowed the familial dynamic to shine. All the news to date indicates Fox intends to pursue the opposite tack of exploring a number of parallel storylines, a much tricker scenario to pull off, especially given the introduction of so many new characters.

  • June 15, 2005, 1:24 p.m. CST

    An evening with Kevin Smith

    by zekmoe

    and the Jon Peters/ Giant spider dicussion will clear up why hollywood screws up perfectly good ideas. It's exactly the same way in government, big business and any large , political organization. You fail upward, take no heed of anything below you, and are completly immovable on any idea, no matter how stupid. Why else would we have Batman and Robin, The Big Dig in boston, or GM Employee discounts for all?

  • June 15, 2005, 1:27 p.m. CST

    Geez ! Thanks for pointin' that out to me, ejcarter!!

    by Devil'sOwn

    That could've almost been emarassing! Whatever. Have a Twinkie for me. I can't, Doctor's orders.

  • June 15, 2005, 1:29 p.m. CST

    No problem Devil'sOwn

    by ejcarter9

    mmm... Twinkies

  • June 15, 2005, 1:29 p.m. CST

    Ratner rant on G4's Attack of the Show!

    by Goonie

    Go to the following site: http://www.g4tv.com/attackoftheshow/videos/index.html. Scroll to the middle of the page and check out Chris Gore's rant against Brett Ratner. Pretty funny!

  • June 15, 2005, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Also...

    by Devil'sOwn

    I know it's no excuse, but I'm "in between" packs of cigs right now, and feenin' like a mother. Sorry. Logic crash. I shall endeavor to prevent such an error from recurring.

  • June 15, 2005, 2:14 p.m. CST

    X-3 Poster...

    by JaeZion

    is funny. How did you guys get talking about transformers. Isn't there another tb for that?

  • June 15, 2005, 2:58 p.m. CST

    Several days later and I'm still pissed about this shit.

    by -guyinthebackrow

    Cyclops better not fucking die!

  • June 15, 2005, 4:07 p.m. CST

    TopHat is a sad, sad little man.

    by mortsleam

    Someone has some major hate for a Canadian with a Metal Skeleton, huh? Funny, I was going to say that the definitive X-Men Line-Up was Cyclops, Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Wolverine and Kitty Pryde. The Days of Futures Past, Mystique

  • June 15, 2005, 4:10 p.m. CST

    Havent watched G4 since they murdered TSS

    by JCubedz

    but you know that rant bought back a bit of love.

  • June 15, 2005, 5:51 p.m. CST

    Abandon Ship

    by X3isFucked

    I suppose we wont see a great X movie until a director like Chris Nolan steps up to bat and gets involved. The script review that was posted is complete and utter shit. I say the one that way posted because i have no way of knowing what the real script is. But if its this, i suggest all on the X3 team abandon ship. Hallie Berry fucking sucks. if there was one character that HAD to die in X3 is was some form of Hallie Berry. Now they are not only making her role bigger in X3 but they are shitting on Wolverine. And not to mention the killing of Xavier and whoever the fuck else the shit writers decide to kill. Also, The only X-Man with more fans than Gambit is Wolverine. The reason that you see few of them on message boards is because they are suave like gambit, and theyre out getting laid. Not typing on a message board wasting my time like i am right now. hehe.

  • June 15, 2005, 6:33 p.m. CST

    it's time to stop this nonsense.

    by Vncentfilmerset

    let's say no to Rothman and a rushed production! let's say no to Ratner !http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?LbX3&1

  • June 15, 2005, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Mortsleam

    by oisin5199

    That's what I'm saying. You need a Joss type story runner (Joss would never do it, it would be like going backwards). Too bad they did that lameass Mutant X thing, which had nothing to do with the real Mutant X (there was even a lawsuit). And I think they tried a horrible tv movie of Generation X that was supposed to go to series and flopped, though I never saw it.

  • June 15, 2005, 8:07 p.m. CST

    Despite what I've read.

    by dr_dreadlocks

    I still don't think the film will be too bad. There are some great bits in there... Although it is mixed in with some tired crapola that I've come to expect from most Hollywood films. You give a movie time to cook and you'll get one hell of a great movie. You boil it and toss it onto a plate... You get this. -- http://www.cafepress.com/thenewpulp

  • June 15, 2005, 8:12 p.m. CST

    If Brett Ratner really once said ...

    by Shan

    ... that he's the guy they go to when they know a film's going to be a big hit anyway (from that AOTS clip), then in a strange way he's being modest isn't he and not exaggerating his position as and ability as a director, unlike what people say Uwe Boll is like for example (as based on his DVD commentary tracks for example).

  • June 15, 2005, 8:41 p.m. CST

    X-Men- LIVE FREE OR DIE!

    by Devil'sOwn

    This has been painful. We expect X3 to be as good as, if not better than, the previous two movies. Singer's leaving put a hurtin' on this production, and I'd be damned hard pressed to think of a another director who approaches the style and sensibilities required for this series. Fox is hell bent on meeting their dammned release date (Hey guys, shooting in August, right? That was still a little ways away, you couldn'tve held out a bit longer?), so they drop Brett "Hey, I did 'Rush Hour'" Ratner in the chair... to shoot a script he had nothing to do with. Outlook: SUSPICIOUS. Alls I'm sayin' is Brett might have one good movie in him, but it'd shock the piss out of me if this was it. Avi (as usual) keeps assuring us everything is all good, and Ratner thinks it'll be as easy as gettin' layed at the prom. Outlook: SKEPTICAL. To add to this mess, Jackman is now a producer, and Ms. Berry will have "an expanded role." Outlook: DESPERATE!! I'd be just as fine not getting a sequel at all right now if they can't avoid more digressions into insipidness.

  • June 15, 2005, 9:04 p.m. CST

    I hope FOX is paying attention to all this.

    by Blobs

    This script needs to to be abandoned. If need be, shelve the project and move directly to the Wolverine solo movie. Not everything in the script is bad, and I don't think that Ratner directing absolutely equals doom. HOWEVER, the script simply doesn't remain true to the source material, neither the comics nor the previous films. The first two films certainly deviated from the historical continuity of the comics, and I think they had to in order to work. They did capture the essence of the characters and the X-Men's world very well though. Now for X3 they want to hook up Storm & Wolverine, marginalize the Dark Phoenix story line and kill Cyclops? This is lunacy! X1&2 effectively set up the Dark Phoenix storyline, which is more than enough to carry the third film. She's powerful enough to destroy the world. Jean Grey was always restrained with her power, but Phoenix embraces it. Magneto would probably covet it and could probably play a part in corrupting it. When he can't control it, he'd probably opt to destroy it. This could lead to some pretty nifty action between the Brotherhood and the X-Men who want to save her. Say what you want about the on screen depiction of Cyclops, he is pivitol in this storyline. He is the heart and soul of the team and the true love of Jean Grey's life. The film makers need to make this work and make him central to the resolution of the Dark Phoeinix threat. Afterall love conquers all...or does it? Go back to the Claremont / Byrne storyline and adapt the key elements. Lose the proposed demutant serum concept and you free up room for more character development. Beast could be worked in in a supporting role. Maybe Angel too. Whatever havoc Dark Phoenix wreaks could be a great setup for a major human backlash against mutants in X4. Maybe X4 could have Sentinels and Worthington senior instrumental in their development because Angel embraces his mutant abilities in X3. There are a lot of possibilities. I'll stop rambling now. These are just some of the ideas going through my head in my alternate X-Men reality. In closing, don't kill Cyke, no relations between Storm and Wolvie, stay true to the source material. Otherwise there will be no audience for an X4.

  • June 15, 2005, 9:11 p.m. CST

    Exactimundo, Blobs.

    by Devil'sOwn

    I hope someone of influence sees this also, because you certainly summed up in one post what we've been trying to say for days.

  • June 15, 2005, 9:51 p.m. CST

    So, is Grando Calrisian in this latest "advance script" rumor, o

    by Techtite

    Sorry, but all this "I got a first look at the script" stuff is getting very old. Remember back in January 2003 when some AICN fanatic **insisted** they had an advance copy of the script of what would eventually be "Revenge of the Sith," and it starred Lando's dad "Grando"...? Well, that's about how smelly the b.s. is here, only more so. Sure the project is being done by some newbies, of a sort, but look at their track record and tell me that they

  • June 15, 2005, 10:09 p.m. CST

    Regardless of who directs, the script has to be good.

    by Shan

    Stating the obvious, really. As for the Dark Phoenix storyline, it was being set up from early in the first film when they said that the true extent of Jean Grey's power was not known, or that it was much greater than they actually knew or words to that effect. I think it was that scene where Professor X was talking about her and she was throwing up plates for Cyclops to shoot. Anyway, it's been set up for ages and it would be nice if they would get it right.

  • June 15, 2005, 11:19 p.m. CST

    Simon Kinberg and "shacking up"

    by Ribbons

    Keep in mind you ARE talking about the man who wrote (or is credited with writing) 'xXx: State of the Union' and 'Mr. and Mrs. Smith.' Whether or not he was responsible for making major decisions with either of those projects (or this one), he did write them, and they both have -- to say the least -- sexual undertones. So citing his involvement with this project as proof that there's no knocking of boots is probably a bad idea.

  • June 15, 2005, 11:44 p.m. CST

    Like I said..

    by X3isFucked

    based on what ive read the script is shit. I have accented that I have NO way of knowing wether or not this script review is legit. Now, everything your saying makes a little sense. Why would they fuck over the franchise like this? Why would the same guy who wrote the two decent films fuck this one in the ass? Simple. Because he isnt the one whos negotiating hallies contract. And hes not the one who has to squeeze in jimmy mardsens one scene so he can go back to superman. Cyclops cant be a huge factor in this film BECAUSE MARDSEN WILL BE WORKING ON SUPERMAN. heres the biggest ass fuck as to why we know this script review is legit. FOX HASNT SAID SHIT! I dont think i have EVER seen this much negative feedback, this script has inspired me to join this fucking site and bash it to pieces. With a backlash like this, if the script wasnt what weve basically just read, fox would be insane not to clear things up real fast. real real fast.

  • June 15, 2005, 11:48 p.m. CST

    BTW

    by X3isFucked

    just saw batman twice in one day. a midnight showing last night and now a 9:30 showing tonight. First time ive ever seen a film twice in one day. The film is absolutely the best superhero film ever. I wont even go into it on this board, but if you haven't seen it yet your insane. Chris Nolan knocked this one out of the park. MARVEL IS NO LONGER ON TOP OF THE SUPERHERO GENRE. Not after Batman Begins. Not after this. Especially not after that X3 script. Hey Rothman, I wonder if Chris Nolan will kill commissioner Gordon if Micheal Caine demands more screen time. FUCK YOU.

  • June 16, 2005, 12:11 a.m. CST

    too true X3isF'd

    by teddanson37

    "Hey Rothman, I wonder if Chris Nolan will kill commissioner Gordon if Micheal Caine demands more screen time." that's it...that is the biggest problem with this script. you can't kill gordon. no one even thinks of doing that because the character of commissioner gordon is needed to tell the story of batman. he may not be the most interesting character, he may not be needed for ever story to be told, and you could probably cut him out of one movie, but you couldn't kill him. and no hollywood exec would think of it because they take the characters seriously. but for some reason they don't take marvel characters seriously. if i were marvel i'd be pissed. i'd demand they show the characters i was letting them use a little more respect. and that's the problem. rothman and the rest of fox doesn't respect these characters the way warner brothers respects batman. no one's gonna say "okay in the next batflick lets kill bruce wayne & alfred and have gordon bang batgirl" unless rothman was in charge. and rothman probably wouldn't even notice what's so wrong with that.

  • June 16, 2005, 12:20 a.m. CST

    Exactly!

    by tourist eater 22

    Batman Begins was absolutely the best movie DC has EVER shown us!...Screw you Rothman,you suck!

  • June 16, 2005, 12:24 a.m. CST

    Well...wait...

    by Phimseto

    I think statements about WB respecting Batman are a bit much. This is still the same WB that drank the Joel Schumacher cool-aid. What WB is is desperate and chastised enough (for the moment) to give creative control to good people in the hopes that something can happen. Remember, Rothman came back into the picture as a result of X-Men's successes. There is every reason to suspect and fear that the empty suits at WB will try to hop on the Batman gravy train, and just end up crashing it monorail-style as a result. As for X-Men, I will never forgot how blown away and pleasantly surprised I was by the first film. If what they have for a script now is what they shoot, I will be as blown away and unpleasantly surprised as I was when I went to the theatre for Superman III.

  • June 16, 2005, 12:39 a.m. CST

    Exactly X3isFucked

    by Ribbons

    If this script wasn't the genuine article, or a reasonable facsimilie thereof, damage control would've been all over this by now. Instead we get a fucking poster.

  • June 16, 2005, 12:42 a.m. CST

    Also...I wish I could have watched those video interviews with K

    by Ribbons

    Both of them. Kinberg for the hilarious dismissal of The Big Hurt by saying "that was months ago." Even if it was, what does that mean? That Cyclops still dies, but the dialogue during his ignominious "de-molecularization" is slightly different? As for Rothman, the fact that he promises to treat the Silver Surfer movie with the utmost integrity when he doesn't even know who the fuck Galactus is would be hilarious if it wasn't so infuriating.

  • June 16, 2005, 12:57 a.m. CST

    Its come to this...

    by dirkcalloway

    Just don't support this project. Fox doesn't give a shit about us and you know what..I don't give a shit about them either. If they want to run this franchise into the ground then let them do it. I'm a huge Xmen fan and I loved the first 2 films but this is ridiculuos. I personally won't go and see another Fox movie for a while, and I won't buy any Fox movie on DVD. Don't give them 1 cent. They can destroy one of our favorite film franchises but we can hurt their returns in the process. Fuck Rothman...make a shit movie and get fired for it you stupid shit. I'm gonna see Superman 20 times even if it sucks just to spite that douchbag.

  • June 16, 2005, 1:51 a.m. CST

    A Blow to the Head.

    by Shan

    Couldn't we just have something fall on Cyclops and knock him out for the duration of the movie if James Marsden is mostly unavailable. It could even become a running gag in the series if they want given his X2 screen time. Not good but better than killing him I guess because it leaves the option of using the character in a bigger way down the track without a deux-ex-machina type resurrection needed if they blow ... him ... up!

  • June 16, 2005, 8:10 a.m. CST

    So its been a few days...

    by GreatWhiteWhale

    And i have a desperate need to read the script, the FULL script. The current Kinberg version. Because i refuse to believe that this, after everything, after being four months old (according to kinberg) will still be considered. I think we should all be factual. The script probably isnt going to change much from this, even if they Cyclops, Xavier are NOT killed it will probably follow the same plot as this is the direction kinberg has set out in. I would almost GUARANTEE that xavier placing mental blocks on jean is what gives birth to the dark phoenix, because frankly i think its quite a clever way to go. Also Angel, Shadowcat, Beast and JUGGERNAUT have been confirmed as having large roles (It appears gambit may have a cameo, as also seen in the script review) which leads us to believe that the angel and beasts scenes will probably remain, the whole cure plotline would appear to be the 'Hugely Thematic' side-plot running alongside dark phoenix which Kinberg seems proud of; also Vaughn was a big fan of Whedon's Astonishing Run. So if Juggy has a large role i suspect it will be similar to pyro's in X2, or Mystiques in X1 i.e the fleshing out of a side -villain that is not Magneto or Stryker, i doubt he will 'just be a brotherhood member' I suspect if anything gets cut it will be the storm and wolverine subplot, even though they are venturing something similar in the current Ulitmate X-Men Comics. I'm pretty sure that fox realise turning the final half of the movie into a STORM movie is a very bad idea, despite some other choices they have made. I expect wolverine will feature prominently but not as an uber-badass which seems to be being saved for his own spin-off. Perhaps the rogue storyline will be developed, perhaps the character will be sidelined, it is too early too tell. Lastly Shadowcat; she is important to the story - Why? Why is the cat the key? If they do keep Xavier and Cyclops, cut the storm leader crap and the sex-scene I expect they will keep the rest, it may be a 'VERY ROUGH' draft but it still shows us the direction they are going.

  • June 16, 2005, 8:22 a.m. CST

    And if...

    by GreatWhiteWhale

    They did cut that crap then i'd go and see this movie. Hell it might even be a the X-Men movie i've been wanting to see, even though Ratner isn't Singer, he would shoot the battle scenes with less subtlety and he has prompted a BIGGER budget than Vaughn's, we could be looking north of 150 mil people, and x2's was 110. Even though the plot seems like a rehash it could be twisted into some form of enjoyment, it could have potential. Simon Kinberg... you're my only hope...

  • June 16, 2005, 8:35 a.m. CST

    Prior Walter?

    by JaeZion

    How does he know the script?

  • June 16, 2005, 8:55 a.m. CST

    he doesn't

    by X3isFucked

    based on everything we know his knowledge of X3 is off. Not that hes a liar but whatever he saw or heard is no longer valid. not that hes not a liar, but ill give em the benefit of the doubt. EVERYONE GO SEE BATMAN BEGINS AGAIN!

  • June 16, 2005, 8:58 a.m. CST

    Prior Walter

    by GreatWhiteWhale

    Doesn't know the script i'm guessing. Well I'm hoping because what he has said sounds so much worse than what TheBigHurt's script review said. I may have what is called an'I-like-to-lie-to-people-because-otherwise-no-one-would-ever-pay-any-attention-to-me' complex. No shit, it's really called that, ask your psychiatrist.

  • June 16, 2005, 9:01 a.m. CST

    umm...

    by GreatWhiteWhale

    that should have been "HE has a what is called an 'blablabla' complex. I'M quite an honest person. Swear it. Ask anyone.

  • June 16, 2005, 11:09 a.m. CST

    X3....

    by blackthought

    batman was fantastic...go watch that again...and again...X3...in a better world this would of been put in turnaround instead of the watchmen.

  • June 16, 2005, 12:40 p.m. CST

    Go Ahead Throw Costumes on 'em

    by cabsau

    Supes and Spidey and Batman have shown us that the costumes work. Take this stupid storyline and add that our heroes need to go undercover so they follow Spiderman's lead and deck out in costumes. I like my superheroes in their superhero garb. Also, if all the mutants are doing is saving themselves they're not really the heroes we all read about. We need

  • June 16, 2005, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Vaughn's a genius

    by MarlboroMan

    He duped fox into hiring one of his mates so he doesnt have to use him in his next film Layer Cake 2 ICING OF DOOM

  • June 16, 2005, 1:02 p.m. CST

    What the @#*CK?

    by goddessgyrl

    This is what you get when the film company doesnt do their job right-first off when the first xmen movie blew off the box office they should have given Bryan Singer a two pic deal to direct, he wouldn't be doing the lame crap of you know what Superman movie. There is so much you can do with the Xmen universe that it so unlimited of ideas? Reading what was given about the script for X3 its like where do you start with the problems? Its to late off in the story to even begin a sexual relationship with Storm and Wolverine because there is going to be people who seen the first two movies and never read the comic saying like? Did i miss something? Now i dont even care if they got Kelsey Grammer as Beast-what we really need to worry about is the story? And they don't mention the part about the Dark Phoenix being the dark phoenix?- If it was me who wrote the script some of the ideas are great ( Angel's part, some of the jean's past/blockage of professor X on her mind), others..someone need to rewrite the script!!!

  • June 16, 2005, 1:30 p.m. CST

    Christ.

    by ChurchOfZod

    You people need to kiss a girl and go outside. Shut the fuck up already. And GoddessGyrl. How about a few more extraneous question marks you dumb twat? Fuck. I hope from now on the only movies made are Victorian period pieces. Then none of you dicks will feel the need to complain about how they didn't get the color of Captain Courageous's cape and boots right.

  • June 16, 2005, 2:08 p.m. CST

    FUCKING NERDS I'M WITH CHUCHOFZOD!!!

    by pontiac

    YOU SIT AND BITCH AND PISS AND MOAN! HERE IS A FUCKING THOUGHT GET A FUCKING LIFE IT'S JUST A MOVIE AND WHO KNOWS IT MIGHT ACTUALLY BE GOOD AND YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY LIKE IT. I SEEM TO REMEMBER RATNER DOING A PRETTY GOOD JOB WITH RED DRAGON AND THE RUSH HOURS WERE PRETTY FUNNY GIVE A FUCKER A SHOT BEFOR YOUR PICKY BITCH ASSES START CRYING ABOUT A MOVIE CHRIST!

  • June 16, 2005, 2:26 p.m. CST

    Ah. The suits have finally read this talkback.

    by ejcarter9

    I was wondering when you all would respond.

  • June 16, 2005, 3:13 p.m. CST

    Powermetal1

    by X3isFucked

    Give me your e-mail address and I will be more than happy to write an editorial. I am a writer and you wont be dissapointed.

  • June 16, 2005, 3:23 p.m. CST

    I'M NOT A SUIT DICKWEED

    by pontiac

    I AM A REGULAR JOE WHO GETS A LAUGH AT YOU IDIOTS WHO WHINE AND CRY ABOUT SHIT LIKE THIS. I LIVE IN INDIANA IN THE MIDDLE OF NO WHERE. IN FACT NOT THAT IT IS ANY OF YOUR BUSINESS OR THAT YOU GIVE A RATS A ASS BUT I'M A QUADRAPALEGIC LIKE CHRIS REEVEVES. I WAS TAKING A BREAK FROM SCHOOL WORK AND STUMBLED ACROSSED THS BITCH FEST.

  • June 16, 2005, 3:42 p.m. CST

    Um, did anybody notice the Goebbels reference?

    by JohnWooTangClan

    I wonder how "Moriarity's" writing partner enjoyed seeing his employment chances at Fox obliterated by "Moriarity's" idiotic comparison of Tom Rothman to Joseph Goebbels. Who cares how badly a tired movie franchise gets mangled, in what reality does a guy with sword fingers fighting another guy with a frog tongue compare to the frickin Holocaust? But it's okay for "Moriarity" to hurl around such vitriol; he "loves" movies so anyone who challenges or threatens his "love" must be a Nazi ... Of course it's this same "love" that has justified his bizarre, pathologically self-important posts (like his reaction to being "banned from the ranch.

  • June 16, 2005, 3:42 p.m. CST

    The script sounds fine to me, but I wish stopping sentinals was

    by The Founder

    I don't know what to make of this. some parts sound good, like the sequence with Mags busting out some bad mutants from prison and tearing up the GG bridge, if done right it could be amazing. Also Phoenix sounds good, but her killi8ng Prof x and Cyke and maybe Magneto??? That's not good writing or good shock value, it's stupid, but then i'm not in control. Maybe Jean will bring then back or something at the end or Prof x some how does something, but we'll just have to wait and see. I hope a sentinale or 10 show up at the end so the we can have an xmen show down joined along side the brother hood, but then that's wishful thinking, cause the timing is an issue, and we'll likly get scens cut then added with such a an asinine time fram that Rothman is hellbent on making.

  • June 16, 2005, 4:07 p.m. CST

    aintit cool news legitimate fan forum...buddy!.

    by thunderbird77

    Moriartys supposed secret agendas...or his very over the top misplaced language....or misunderstanding of the x-men eg.(cyclops "boyscout" image is vital to the x-men he is the leader period. Sorry moriarty) Shouldn't detract anyone from seeing and understanding this forum as a more than legitimate forum for fans to give their input into the film process (hey we pay to see the movies/more than once if theyre any good I might add).. whether or not anybody in the process has a look or not!. btw I believe some years back cyclops was in fact briefly killed off...and then brought back.. pretty quickly (fans complained bitterly.. guess it worked)..(boring boyscout baloney was used then too). If marsdens unavailable (although I thought he was very good!) re-cast the role.

  • June 16, 2005, 5:05 p.m. CST

    JohnWooTangClan

    by Ribbons

    You sound like either a smart guy or one who has the luxury of a different perspective from most of us, but it seems to me like you strung a bunch of criticisms of "Moriarty" together that don't really have anything to do with one another. That sort of thing works okay in stand-up comedy, but not so much when you're trying to make a cohesive point. The one you seemed to commit to, Moriarty's so-called hypocrisy, doesn't even work because, as far as I know, he has a project set up and 20th Century Fox. Or are you privvy to information that proves otherwise? You seem to think his relationship with movies is melodramatic. It's possible he just liked a crappy Revolution movie because of who was associated with making it, or because it was a "geek" movie. Y'know, like the one with the guy with the sword fingers.

  • June 16, 2005, 5:06 p.m. CST

    Mathew Vaughn knew something we didnt thats why he left -- nuff

    by Spacesheik

  • June 16, 2005, 6:27 p.m. CST

    it's time to stop this nonsense.

    by Vncentfilmerset

    let's say no to Rothman and his rushed Production! let's say no to Ratner! http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?LbX3&1

  • June 16, 2005, 7:27 p.m. CST

    Hats off to you, Mori!

    by Johnny Ahab

    I remember the big ruckus from the JJ Abrams Superman script, and all of the web-screaming shut that project down. Let's hope this has the same effect. [And Drew, you have my DEEP RESPECT AND ADMIRATION for going up against a big studio boss who could shut your career down -- you, sir, have giant iron balls.] I hope the idiots at Fox have the good sense to read this thread, sense the fan rage, and PULL THE PLUG on this version. Better to wait and GET THE DAMN SCRIPT RIGHT than to ford on ahead. LET THE BUSINESS DECISIONS NOT DRIVE THE BOAT! Fans will TOTALLY accept new actors in roles, rather than the same actors in the same roles in a shitty movie! I remember reading dire reports of the "Hulk" script and getting very very nervous -- and man, did that movie just suck. And it tanked. And doomed a decent "Hulk 2" sequel. There's an old saying about bad playwriting -- "if it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage." I don't care who the director is, a crappy script makes for a crappy movie. Period. William Goldman once wrote a terrific essay, lambasting Hollywood, saying that this phrase should be tattooed on the eyelids of every executive in Hollywood: "The story is the star, the story is the star..." Learn this lesson, Fox folks...

  • June 16, 2005, 7:29 p.m. CST

    Nona Gaye Should Be Storm

    by FlickChick

    She was in "Crash" as Brendan Fraser's character's assistant. Angela Bassett is a bit too old. Halle Berry only got the part because she's the most popular black actress in Hollywood, regardless of actually incompatibility with the part. I'll say it again, Nona Gaye should be Storm.

  • June 16, 2005, 8:21 p.m. CST

    drew,,

    by X3isFucked

    yah, let me just say b/c i left it out of my prior post that Drew is the man to go up against rothman like he is. He is the voice of the fans and im sure he will help us make clear we do not want this film to go this route.

  • June 16, 2005, 8:45 p.m. CST

    Hopefully Batman Begins will make a ton of Bank...

    by El_Barstardo

    That may put a freeze on production of this, since it proves that pleasing the fanboys is what makes or breaks these films. www.armchairwarriors.net

  • June 16, 2005, 9:44 p.m. CST

    Someone at fox must pay

    by Meremoth

    Why on Earth do they think tht by killing characters that It will make it more exiting? If their going to off anybody it ought to be Shadowcat or some other pointless character.

  • June 16, 2005, 10:23 p.m. CST

    rothman

    by blackthought

    i heard the third act features a new mutant created specifically for the movie. the mutant name is rothman and he has the power to obliderate character and story and turn it into shite.

  • June 16, 2005, 10:29 p.m. CST

    Killing for Money

    by flossygomez

    A major character dies in a movie and you have emotional pay off, the great exception to this rule would be Captain Kirk in Generations, I for one breathed a sigh of relief. In all 3 LOTR movies, the only major characters to die were Gollum and Theoden, and they were actually secondary characters in a world war for Gods sake. This is just a cynical way to suck in more bucks for "controversy" and emotion factor.

  • June 16, 2005, 10:31 p.m. CST

    Johnny Ahab

    by Ribbons

    Alas, the 'Hulk' scripts that were floating around the Internet had nothing to do with what was actually filmed. I don't even know if they were real. You know, the ones that generated the rumors about the She-Hulks? And the script where Josh Lucas' character became a big, red lizard and he and Hulk demolished Las Vegas in an all-out brawl? How 'bout the one where the mailman makes Bruce's dog Hulk out at the end? They were all bullshit. The only genuine script review of 'Hulk' came from Harry, and it was positive. So while inconsequential, just wanted to point out that the information you're using to back up your case is wrong.

  • June 16, 2005, 10:33 p.m. CST

    Ratner - Hope he mixes it up

    by flossygomez

    Red Dragon was the first Lecter movie I was bored by...an amazing feat since I think it's the best book in the series. Wonderful actors are the only thing that saved me from falling to sleep in the theater, especially Emily Watson.

  • June 16, 2005, 11:21 p.m. CST

    flossy gomez

    by oisin5199

    not to nitpick, but what about the most important character death: Boromir and technically, Gandalf. And Saruman, but he was a bad guy. Oh yeah, and just saw Jon Stewart's rant on The Daily Show about how annoying it is when anyone and everything gets compared to Hitler. Sorry, but I agree. Though I certainly agree with the rest of Mori's post.

  • June 16, 2005, 11:35 p.m. CST

    Goebbels and Rothman

    by Ribbons

    While he could have chosen an analogy with less sinister connotations, I think the point of Moriarty's post was not to liken Rothman to a Nazi so much as to underscore how much of a wolf in sheep's clothing he was at the Saturn Awards.

  • June 16, 2005, 11:35 p.m. CST

    Post

    by Ribbons

    By "post," I mean article.

  • June 16, 2005, 11:36 p.m. CST

    You're right Ribbons

    by JohnWooTangClan

    Yeah as you can tell I have a problem with "Moriarity." I've been a reader of AICN since '97 but learned long ago to skip his stuff because it's usually too dense for my poor attention span. When I do make the effort I usually feel punished by his bombastic self-absorption and crappy prose, but of course I have no one but myself to blame. I've never felt compelled to post before today, but the doubletalk and hypocrisy finally got to me. What's bugged me about AICN for years is its profound lack of responsibility. I enjoy the news and the rumors as much as anybody, but at times these guys just say what they want with no thought at all to the consequences. As a result I

  • June 17, 2005, 12:05 a.m. CST

    oisin5199...I'm a friggin idiot!

    by flossygomez

    The death of Borimir, um...yeah, that is a hell of a character to gloss over considering that he was one of my favorite characters. Whoops! Gandalfs death had a good emotional playing out, but it was part of the story, and a very necessary part. Saruman only died on the extended DVD! Haha...and you know, this script speculation could all be hooey anyway. Oh, and Tom Rothman is Adolph Hitler. EVIL! EVIL! (kidding)

  • June 17, 2005, 12:28 a.m. CST

    everyone does it..

    by X3isFucked

    we all say shit as a result of passion that isnt always the best way to put our thoughts forward. for example, think of the last time you told someone you were going to kill them. chances are that wasnt your intention. so lets all go easy on moriarty for making a reference that wasnt well thought out. ive said worse.

  • June 17, 2005, 1:38 a.m. CST

    I have no idea who Tom Rothman is, but he sounds like a real dou

    by Mr. Anderson

    Yes, I'll thank him for rescuing us from ID5, but I still can't understand why a major studio would decide to keep on the payroll a guy who tried to sabotage the movie that would eventually become their biggest franchise. The prison break sounds cool, Angel sounds cool, Beast sounds like he could be cool (so was that a different Dr. Henry McCoy on TV in X2?), but everything else sounds like unoriginal, uninspired shit.

  • June 17, 2005, 3:58 a.m. CST

    Satan's black worm jism: Redux.

    by TonyWilson

    Tom Rothman and Brett Ratner must have sucked satans black worm jism to get where they are today. No talent pieces of shit!

  • June 17, 2005, 10:16 a.m. CST

    rothman!!!!!!!!

    by blackthought

    fires ratner, hires stephen sommers....errrrrr....um.

  • June 17, 2005, 11:53 a.m. CST

    proven source material better than writing on the go.

    by thunderbird77

    I'm all for the creative process.. heck I understand lots of Jaws was done on the fly....BUT!!, if I look at most of the films I find powerful they had strong source material, or a single author (eg. a book). eg. LOTR, the shining, gone with the wind, even obscure movies like the unbearable lightness of being.... I'm not suggesting good screenwriters shouldn't try to compete with something proven like a newyork times bestseller....just that strong source material thats proven to be successful generally shouldn't be tinker toyed with too much.. Sure comic costumes need tweaking for film (I believe thats a visual consideration..not a writing decision)... but the source material for the best comics are timeless. The best stories have made re-prints into "graphic novels"..fans re-buy these proven concepts eg. there are a lot x-men comics besides "uncanny x-men". However they are re-imagined, the core stories and characters are there though.. professor x, magneto,cyclops,wolverine,storm...I can't imagine a spiderman movie where they have uncle ben live, swap gwen stacey for mary jane watson, or make Peter Parker a truck driver instead of a photographer. Obviously from what we've read the pheonix x-men story has been butchered completely...and thats a shame because the x-men franchise written in the comics and created and developed by legendary comics writers and artists(who know there genre better than anyone I might add),are being disgaced.

  • June 17, 2005, 12:28 p.m. CST

    I saw a piece on MTV about why it's important to remain loya

    by Ribbons

    Avi Arad was included in the piece. I wanted to punch him in the face.

  • June 17, 2005, 2:06 p.m. CST

    it's time to stop this nonsense.

    by Vncentfilmerset

    let's say no to Rothman and a rushed production! let's say no to Ratner! http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?LbX3

  • June 17, 2005, 2:11 p.m. CST

    OK, I get it

    by ejcarter9

    There's a petition, it's at a certain address, I get it. Doesn't this constant repetition constitute a spamming situation?

  • June 17, 2005, 2:24 p.m. CST

    if..

    by Vncentfilmerset

    it is so boring fo talkbackers i'll stop.i just know that a lot of people , doesn't wan't to read all the posts. Have a nice afternoon .

  • June 17, 2005, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Natasha Henstridge as the White Queen

    by LordSoth

    She was right on in The Whole Nine Yards, even if that movie wasn't great. But don't use the Hellfire Club unless there's a talented writer involved, like Goyer! Blade: Trinity wasn't his fault! It was because Snipes was a douchebag.

  • June 17, 2005, 3:56 p.m. CST

    'Blade: Trinity' was SO Goyer's fault

    by Ribbons

    Snipes certainly didn't help though.

  • June 17, 2005, 6:54 p.m. CST

    I've got a good idea! We could try remote prayer...

    by -guyinthebackrow

    All together now... "Please Satan, smite your brother Rothman until he can be smote no more."

  • June 17, 2005, 7:02 p.m. CST

    He's not a geek - he's a dick

    by Psylocke/Iceman

    HB asking for a larger role is fair enough as long as she proves she can act - Just don't sign actors like Marsden who are reluctant to do sequels - ruins the franchise in the long run His lack of enthusiasm for the part (not that he's done that badly with what he's been given) is the reason we're getting stupid storylines now BTW I wouldn't have thought Patrick Stewart would be too happy about getting wasted - I though he was in for the long haul For his X3 input & meddling with X1 budget Rothman should have the left half of his body demolecularised and be rectally forcefed demutant serum till it stems the river of shite that he's coming up with He's not a geek - he's a dick

  • June 17, 2005, 7:27 p.m. CST

    Personally...

    by dirkcalloway

    I'd rather them recast this whole frachise them have them make this film as it stands and rush production for a memorial day release. I love how the teaser poster had the date right there staring us in the face. Fuck you Rothman and your studio too. As far as Marsdan goes...that guy should be lucky to have a job. Synger must see something in the guy, but I don't. He's not terrible but he was totally wrong for the part. Would ANYONE be upset if they recast him? I doubt it.

  • June 17, 2005, 8:32 p.m. CST

    I absolutely hate Joss Whedon, but...

    by ZeroCorpse

    I have to say, if this is what they have planned for X3, then I'll join the crowd asking for Fox to hire Whedon to writer & direct the next X-Men film. This is utter crap, and Ratner can't make it shine. He's good at filming things, but not very good at making anything jump out at the viewer. He's competely forgettable. And Halle getting the lead position? Forget it. I won't watch a movie that elevates Halle Berry to anything beyone supporting status. She sucks.

  • June 17, 2005, 8:34 p.m. CST

    if you had to recast....

    by blackthought

    cyclops...who'd play him?

  • June 17, 2005, 9:26 p.m. CST

    Hey Ribbons, about the Hulk script comment...

    by Johnny Ahab

    I didn't reference all of those early Hulk script rumors. What I was referring to were the rumors that turned out to be true (Hulk dogs, Absorbing Man Dad, etc.) as laid out in this AICN

  • June 17, 2005, 9:28 p.m. CST

    Note to Ribbons - Part II

    by Johnny Ahab

    [Whoops - accidentally hit the Enter button - sorry] continuing...I was referring to the AICN story in 2002 that warned of crappy script details. Check it out here: http://aintitcool.com/tb_display.cgi?id=12078#445483. Please also scroll thru the talkback and see my diatribe at the time. That's what I was talking about.

  • June 17, 2005, 10:45 p.m. CST

    Hey, fellow "geeks"...

    by Devil'sOwn

    Still goin' strong, huh? Lessee... I consider Goyer a talented writer, perhaps he should stick with that, Ribbons? Wesley has always struck me as egotistical, and his altercation over Blade: Trinity hasn't done anything to improve that perception. Speakin' 'o unchecked egos, I think it would be so sad if Halle was finally given the screen time she demands and... she was found wanting. This is your ass. This is a hole in the ground. Any questions? I don't really understand some folks' intense dislike for Joss Whedon. He's a gifted writer who's proven he knows the in's and out's of the genre. I'm not sayin' he's fuckin' Stephen King. And I've never watched Firefly. But I did catch a few seasons of Buffy, and my wife and I avidly watched Angel. I agree with others that he'd be top choice for this material. The only other director I feel could get the vibe right is Guillermo del Toro (perhaps a colaberation between the two?), and I'll concede I may be a little biased. He's a personal favorite of mine. Perhaps the most interesting suggestion I've heard is recasting the series (Let the speculation begin!). I am NOT opposed to that. And dollars ta Duncan Doughnuts a whole helluva lotta other people aren't, either. See, that's the great thing about a frachise. When it starts to fizzle, you can always inject new life into it. The show must go on, right Fox?

  • June 17, 2005, 10:49 p.m. CST

    "Collaboration". Sorry.

    by Devil'sOwn

    I really can spell! I'm just tired.

  • June 17, 2005, 10:55 p.m. CST

    So stop sittin' around, slack-jawed fanboys!

    by Devil'sOwn

    And start namin' your picks to play All New, All Different X-Men today!!

  • June 17, 2005, 11:10 p.m. CST

    (In best Cartman voice)

    by Devil'sOwn

    A-Hem! Hellloooo? Anybody? Don'tcha at least wanna make fun of my badly misspelled, crudely written posts...? Screw you guys. I'ma goin' home.

  • June 17, 2005, 11:39 p.m. CST

    Goyer...

    by Ribbons

    ...can direct okay, although 'Blade: Trinity' was basically like a giant car commercial. But he shouldn't be directing his own screenplays. I consider his screenplays crude oil, which the director then has to refine, if you will. Good stuff, but a lot of crap as well. If he's directing them, then that refining process won't happen. And I know all about 'Zigzag.' That was probably more successful because it avoided action movie clich

  • June 17, 2005, 11:40 p.m. CST

    All-New, All-Different X-Men

    by Ribbons

    Maybe tomorrow. I just got punched in the head and I'm honestly not thinking too well right now.

  • June 18, 2005, 12:21 a.m. CST

    Cyclops

    by dirkcalloway

    I always thought that Dennis Quaid would have made a good Cyclops. He looks the part at least. Now, i'm not sure. It would have to be someone relatively young...but it should be someone with some presence and command. A believable leader for the X-Men.

  • June 18, 2005, 12:21 a.m. CST

    Some good news?

    by ejcarter9

    http://www.iesb.net/fox2005/061705.php

  • June 18, 2005, 12:35 a.m. CST

    very interesting link....

    by Freakemovie

    Whoever Robert Sanchez is (I've heard that's a common alias for people named "Brett Ratner", but whatever), that was interesting. His part on whiners on message boards was hilarious because it pinned some people so well, and that was a good point. And the comments on Vaughn were very interesting. Looking back, it's true that he never seemed to care much for Singer's work...I'm just generally getting the impression that he never wanted to do a big studio film in the first place. So then why would he ever say yes? I don't know...but for some reason despite all the possible bad news I'm kind of warming to things. I mean, if Chris Columbus can pull off a "Rent" movie (the trailer admittedly looks great), then I have faith that Ratner won't destroy the franchise. I've decided to wait until we get a trailer before making any more hasty decisions...and yeah I know that'll be a while.

  • June 18, 2005, 12:44 a.m. CST

    yeah right!!!

    by Annamaria

    well that iesb article made me thinking... i can understand a bit of what was said.... i mean there is nothing we can do now, the movie is gonna be made, the director wont change, unless we get another personal reasons excuse, which i doubt.. now the whole script thing... i mean yea it could be old, but i doubt they did a complete rewrite, i wouldnt be surprised if the main aspects of the plot were kept in the script... but i still feel that execs lately are being incredibly stupid and not being smart about producing movies.. i mean half the movies being put out there today shouldnt even be classified as movies, and the ones that actually are really good can get screwed in the long run, like XMen! so im not all too happy with rothman... if execs just listen to what the people say about the movies then they mite turn out better... we are the people who sees them, so by pleasing us youll have a more successful film... and that article, although it did say they have no problems with other websites, almost every comment sounded like it was in response to everything said here... watever, im sticking with what goes on here, u guys really know what youre talking about... well guys, im hoping to be a film producer, so if i get lucky enough to head a studio i will make you guys soooooo happy, like seriously i havent said anything yet about this whole subject, but come on this is pure bullshit, the xmen are my favorite comic book heroes, and the movies are def some of my favorites, and now theyre all going to hell... im really sad and angry that this is happening... it will all be fixed once im in the business i promise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • June 18, 2005, 12:58 a.m. CST

    new cyke

    by blackthought

    clive owen

  • June 18, 2005, 3:10 a.m. CST

    Reading all this made me want to cry....

    by winemonkey

    ....so I'm a bit behind everyone else, but my 5 month old son tends to keep me busy. I have just read the review and ALL of the posts though, and, sorry to bring up my baby again, but I think I saw a better plot in his nappy first thing this morning. What are they thinking? I was never and am not currently a true fan of the X men. I have not read any comics. I thought the first film was great and the second one left me totally up for X3 - I was loving Rogue and Wolverine, and why bother introducing Pyro and sending him off with Magneto if nothing is going to come of that? There were some crappy moments - Lady whatever her name was bored me and Storm and Cyclops were both weak. Getting to my point - and I promise there is one! - I simply cannot believe that the pile of shite I just read would ever get the go ahead. It sounds dreadful. I am beyond fed up with films coming out that are insulting to the audience. They might as well get the cast to stand there waving their backsides at us for 2 hours. It is a crying shame.

  • June 18, 2005, 9:41 a.m. CST

    Sorry, Ribbons.

    by Devil'sOwn

    That sucks. Hope ya feel better. Thanks for the insight on Goyer's screenplays. Never really thought about it like that before. You could have a script that looks like gold, but if you don't have an objective party to interpret it on to film, it can get pretty messy. Guess that's why you hear writer's shouldn't direct. Stephen King on Maximum Overdrive? Argh.

  • June 18, 2005, 11:08 a.m. CST

    UNCANNY X-MEN Reboot

    by Devil'sOwn

    BILLY CRUDUP Cyclops. NONA GAYE Storm. JOHN LEGUIZAMO Nightcrawler. COLIN FARRELL Wolverine. MICHAEL ROSENBAUM Charles Xavier. JON FAVREAU Beast. ORLANDO BLOOM Angel. SCARLETT JOHANSSON Phoenix. DAKOTA FANNING Kitty Pryde. STEPHEN DORFF Magneto. SEAN BEAN Sabretooth. JOAQUIN PHOENIX Sebastian Shaw. SAM ROCKWELL Mastermind. CHARLIZE THERON Emma Frost.

  • June 18, 2005, 11:24 a.m. CST

    Yeah, interesting link.

    by Devil'sOwn

    But at the risk of sounding like a geezer, I understand the desire to make the most out of momentum. I guess I just don't "get" when release dates became the be-all, end-all of a production. I seem to remember a time when a movie came out when it came out, not at some all-important, pre-set date. Maybe I dreamed it.

  • June 18, 2005, 1:10 p.m. CST

    All movies have to have aset release date

    by JUSTICE41

    At least a year ahead of time. Marketing and pacjaging as well as merchandising is the main reason. Also certain time slots are in huge demand as they will get maximum returns. Batman Begins being releasedd now hurt it's take because schools are just now going through graduations and proms and all that stuff while colleges are on break. So yeah, setting a date is crucial for the success of a movie. If it wasn't why then do people consider August and September bad release dates?

  • June 18, 2005, 1:42 p.m. CST

    Yes, JUSTICE41, I understand.

    by Devil'sOwn

    Thanks. In this particular case, I just don't think it's going too favorably. Fantastic Four has the look of a rushed project. shoot, I remember last year around this time they were still discussing who to cast, right?

  • June 18, 2005, 2:47 p.m. CST

    It is disturbing...

    by Magunga

    ...to think that any of the plot points mentioned in this script review will make their way into the next movie. The X-Men have such a rich history to draw from, and yet it seems that the proto-simians in charge of this project feel it more important to rely on generic formulae formulae and shock value to keep the franchise going. It bothers me that Avi Arad stands behind this brutal raping of a classic Marvel series. It is unfortunate that no one involved with this picture seems to really appreciate the source material they should be drawing from. I'll continue to observe the goings-on of this project in hopes that, via some miracle, they manage to scrape together a movie that stays true to the X-Men ethos.

  • June 18, 2005, 3:54 p.m. CST

    maybe it will be good

    by teddanson37

    i made some negative comments above, but really, i felt like the plot of the first two films kinda sucked. it was the acting, the bold characters, and the special effects that really made them good. now if they'd just make one with a killer plot. like the x-men having to battle some kind of evil like apocalypse, sinister, or even onslaught. we really haven't gotten to see them use there powers together as a team. there was the scene where storm blew nightcrawler out of the roof and jean caught him. and in X1 when jean possitioned scott's visor so he could blast saber tooth. but it's time to see them all going crazy on scene. think LOTR battle scene's but with x-men vs. sentinels. you know that'd be awesome. and i'm hoping that this script is just an old one and cyclops and the prof are no longer leaving us for good. i have alot of faith in these characters and as long as the script is true to the characters, it will be a movie worth watching. and come on, angel, beast, and juggy will be in it. have to see that.

  • June 18, 2005, 5:19 p.m. CST

    Devil'sOwn, it was two years ago

    by JUSTICE41

    we were all complaining about Jessica Simpson rumors of her being cast as Sue. Remember everyone yakking on about the rumors about The Torch not going to flame on completely? That's why Rumors are just that. I'll only base what I think about the finished product on the finished product.

  • June 18, 2005, 7:58 p.m. CST

    JUSTICE41

    by Ribbons

    No, it was last year? Wanna know how I know? I sent in the report (not a scoop, of course) about three of them being cast last July. They started shooting in August. So yeah, FF was a little rushed. What studio is that movie being released under? Oh yeah....

  • June 18, 2005, 7:58 p.m. CST

    I'm Ron Burgundy?

    by Ribbons

  • June 18, 2005, 8:03 p.m. CST

    Sounds good to me, JUSTICE41.

    by Devil'sOwn

    I didn't follow the story that closely. I just remember last year, the rumors were of George Clooney as Mr. Fantastic. I seen the way these rumors run. When it's a property I care about, that has as much promise as this one should, I just hope the finished product is good.

  • June 18, 2005, 8:18 p.m. CST

    Sorry guys it was back in 2003.

    by JUSTICE41

    Here's the story from Superherohype.com If you want check this link out. It has all the stories from the beginning till now. This August will be two years http://www.superherohype.com/ff/index.php?from=200 Jessica Simpson in Fantastic Four? Source: Chris August 30, 2003 While you couldn't pay us to believe anything that Star Magazine says, every once in a while they mention something that is accurate (rarely though). Check this out from 'Chris'. In the September 2nd isssue of Star Magazine there is an article about Jessica Simpson and the second to last sentence is, "And she is set to play a sexy superheroine in a new Fantastic Four movie." Just thought I'd let ya know. Fantastic Four is still scheduled for December of next year. That would be strange though, as her manager and dad just told MSN that Jessica would be playing a Marvel character in a summer 2004 movie. That could only mean either Spider-Man 2 or Blade: Trinity, both scheduled during the summer. Perhaps her dad had the release date wrong? She would make a good Invisible Woman (but who would really want her to be invisible!).

  • June 18, 2005, 8:23 p.m. CST

    This of course was only in response to how long ago everyone was

    by JUSTICE41

    When Filming started I'm not sure about but it was a 6 month shoot up in Canada with a few extra weeks for some reshoots of the X-Games scenes and something with Alba running down the street. So Casting went on for quites some time didn't it. Hey better this flick than that other Corman flick with Mr. fantastics arms being two by fours with gloves on em.

  • June 18, 2005, 9:41 p.m. CST

    Couldn't agree more.

    by Devil'sOwn

    Never saw the Corman version, never want to. Spidey may be Marvel's flagship character, their Mickey Mouse, if you will; but the FF is their keystone property. I guess we've been hearing murmurs about it for years. And as early as the mid-90s (ah, memories!), I started hoping to see a big screen version of Marvel's first family. Some of us always expected the Thing to be cgi, but I guess after all the uber-geeks bitched and whined about The Hulk, they decided not to go that way.

  • June 18, 2005, 9:55 p.m. CST

    Ribbons!!!

    by Devil'sOwn

    Good to hear from you! Are you feeling better? Y'know, I would have asked how that happened, but I really dislike snoopy people. I understand not wanting to get in to it. Just pleased t'see you're up and about.

  • June 18, 2005, 10:31 p.m. CST

    re-write? kiss my ass.

    by X3isFucked

    The script that was reviewed did not need a re-write. It did not need an adjustment. It needs to be torched and a new script needs to be written. This must be a hell of a re-write. Lets see what they should include... not killing xavier, not killing magneto, not killing cyclops, not having storm lead the team, not having storm have a romantic relationship with wolverine, not having the main villain be a fucking cardboard cut out of the last films, not ripping off joss whedon, not making the focal point of the film another mutant changing or killing bullshit device, not shitting on gambit, not shitting on juggernaut, letting juggernaut interact with xavier (see the first comment about not killing xavier), not de-mutanting people, not pissing on the danger room so ice man (pussy) can dodge WW2 bullets, not pissing on singers ideas for X3 (which had a white queen)... FOR FUCKS SAKE JUST TORCH THE SCRIPT!!! id love to hear this fox board meeting.. " mr .joseph, hmm, i think sebastian shaw and the white queen would make great villians" "sorry williams, wed have to cast actors and then probably pay them.. lets just use a blue liquid as the films villian, people will buy that, they like blue" " haha, your right joseph, blue liquid it is. and hey, lets get it from a mutant who has no real powers so we can save money on CGI! " if your going to run around saying the script is being rewritten then you better be god damn sure its not a few one liners that are being changed. other wise, shut up, and own up to your shitty script. because i have a feeling these rewrites involve minor details that we all dont give a shit about. i seriously doubt right now they are telling hallie berry she cannot lead the team, become a healer and fuck hugh jackman. BTW, EVERYONE GO SEE BATMAN BEGINS AGAIN!!!!

  • June 18, 2005, 11:30 p.m. CST

    What?! Cillian Murphy was mah-velous in 'Batman Begins.'

    by Ribbons

    Seriously. I thought so anyway. He had the whole 'smug prick' thing going, which I'm pretty sure was intentional, since Scarecrow (or Jonathan Crane, as you will) was supposed to be an egomaniac. Plus he played the character as just a little bit unhinged. I thought it was one of the better performances in the entire movie. *********** Devil'sOwn, thanks for your concern. I'm feeling much better now. I was afraid I may have suffered a concussion (which the jury's still out on), but I went to sleep and didn't die, so at least I got that goin' for me.

  • June 18, 2005, 11:53 p.m. CST

    Batman Begins was fantastic

    by X3isFucked

    Cillian Murphy did a wonderful job in the film as did the rest of the ensemble cast. Batman Begins was the first superhero movie I walked out of truly happy with. This is a film that is receiving standing ovations across the world. Im sorry to hear your bitter about it, but there are 39 million dollars worth of people in three days that thought it fucking rocked. like me. SEE BATMAN BEGINS AGAIN!!!

  • June 19, 2005, 12:05 a.m. CST

    Dirty Sanchez

    by dirkcalloway

    I think its pretty clear that Rothman does read the talkbacks. Real slick buddy...and btw I don't live in my mothers basement...i live in the garage. Now I'm really not gonna see your crappy movie. And it will be crap, we all know it.

  • June 19, 2005, 12:07 a.m. CST

    Cillian Murphy was great as Scarecrow!!!!

    by dirkcalloway

    Everything about Batman Begins was great. Murphy especially. Some of the coolest scenes in the movie involved the scarecrow. I hope he's back for the second one...along with the Joker of course.

  • June 19, 2005, 12:25 a.m. CST

    Wolverine and Storm and oh yeah, Halle Berry

    by Passions Kiss

    Help me out here, it's kinda foggy for me, but didn't Wolverine and Storm have some kind of attraction/relationship in one of the comics (alternate universe ring a bell)? As for Halle, I've been a fan of hers since I saw her in my first Halle Berry movie. That she was born in the state where I live, doesn't hurt. However, when I heard she was going to be Storm, I was skeptical. Rogue and Storm have been my favorite characters since I became and X-Men fan in the 90s. I don't think she's giving us the Storm we know and love. Yes, she has the emotional thing down. However, she doesn't have that inner strength and quiet intensity that you see when you look at the character. It's as if it's been put on mute. I find it hard to believe that she's ever struggled with being revered as a goddess. But if you ask me who could play Storm, my verdict's still out.

  • June 19, 2005, 12:34 a.m. CST

    So?

    by Ribbons

    Xavier became Onslaught and killed a bunch of mutants in the comics too, doesn't mean it would make sense for Fox to whip that storyline out of their ass all of a sudden. The movie continuity as established makes it pretty hard for me to by a romance between Wolverine and Storm.

  • June 19, 2005, 12:46 a.m. CST

    So?

    by Passions Kiss

    I wasn't saying that it made since for Fox to suddenly pull this so called romance out of Fantasy Hell and thrust it upon us. I was just trying to recall whether that attraction was there or not.

  • June 19, 2005, 1:06 a.m. CST

    I'm not worried.

    by fishjimboding

    I've been following the Internet news concerning X-men 3 since I heard about the controversy over the script, among other things. The more I read about things going bad though, I have to say, I

  • June 19, 2005, 1:14 a.m. CST

    No one has figured out why characters have to be killed by The P

    by JUSTICE41

    Well They can't have her flying through intergalactic space devouring Suns and killing billions just to feed her needs now could we. So when you bring it down to a more human level, she has to kill The most powerful Mutants on the planet and of course someone she cares for. Makes sense to me. Besides Xaviar could leave his body and inhabit someone else's. The story and all that isn't the biggest worry. the limited timeline is the real issue.

  • June 19, 2005, 1:23 a.m. CST

    rothman has heard you pleas!

    by blackthought

    he just fired ratner and hired stephen sommers to write and direct x3 in 3 weeks. um....there's where i left that needle.

  • June 19, 2005, 2:53 a.m. CST

    nightcrawler will NOT be in X3

    by Vncentfilmerset

    http://www.alancumming.com/frame.htm And another dumb decision , fox..

  • June 19, 2005, 3:57 a.m. CST

    More Good ews

    by bryce

    No NightCrawler? All that set up so that he can be non-existant in the new movies. What the hell? Are they TRYING TO run this franchise into the ground?

  • June 19, 2005, 4:33 a.m. CST

    No crawler?

    by G666

    those bastards! maybe the fans are so stupid they'd get conufsed by too many blue mutants. heaven's know that alan cumming, rebbeca romjin stamos and kelsey grammar are just SO similar.

  • June 19, 2005, 8:31 a.m. CST

    Blue Mutants

    by Ribbons

    Well, they would've been able to make room for Nightcrawler, but that blue serum sent them over the top in terms of their blue quota.

  • June 19, 2005, 11:46 a.m. CST

    hmm..

    by X3isFucked

    It's stupid of them to completely write him out of the film. We never got to see him fight alongside the team. If they must be rid of him than at least have him cameo and leave the school for some reason// since mutant relations are better in X3 he can finally realize his dream of becoming a priest// some bullshit like that, theres no good reason to completely ignore a well developed character.

  • June 19, 2005, 11:49 a.m. CST

    Well, considering theyre giving the worst chaaracter more screne

    by dirkcalloway

    is it that surprising that they aren't including one of their cooler mutants. Unbelievable. I can't wait to hear whats next.

  • June 19, 2005, 12:01 p.m. CST

    nightcrawler

    by blackthought

    they'll prolly wrote him in the third act. on of screen death scene...everybody is morning the losses all ready and the phone rings...beast picks it up...any of you guys know a nightcrawler? wolvie and storm nod...well he's dead...got ran over by a rushed script. all that was found of him was taken to ratner memorial hospital where they proceeded to lose him and haven't found him since...click.

  • June 19, 2005, 12:05 p.m. CST

    Again...

    by Ribbons

    ...seems like it's about money to me. Well-developed characters? Who gives a shit? If they can't further the story in any meaningful way or if they aren't part of some focus-group bullshit then they're gone. Bye Cyclops and Nightcrawler; your romances are superfluous now that we have our big stars humping each other's brains out. To anyone reading and wondering "why the hate" for this project when us stupid fucking fanboys don't even know whether or not it'll be good, this is why. This movie has been hijacked by people who care more about how many cheap thrills they can cram down their imaginary audience's throat than about the actual quality of the story they're telling. If it turns out to be any good, it will be a coincidence.

  • June 19, 2005, 12:51 p.m. CST

    No Nightcrawler.

    by MasterWhedon

    Personally, I don't think it's the biggest loss. I suspected as much with the script review. If I had to put together the list of my favorite five, ten X-Men, he probably wouldn't be on it. HOWEVER, I did really like him in X2 and I thought he had a complete, well-done character arc. YOU CAN LOSE MUTANTS IN THEIS SERIES AND STILL GO ON!! And but cutting the fat here, you can spend more time on the others, especially the newbies.

  • June 19, 2005, 1:15 p.m. CST

    Murphy was one of the things I was looking forward to in Begins.

    by Devil'sOwn

    Always an interesting actor. Good to hear Ribbons. Had me spooked there for a while. Be careful!! Did Rothman actually make some snarky comment? Sorry, I missed that. Hmph. If so, that reminds me of the time back when Batman came out, and Michael Keaton, on some news program, smirked about not being able to please fans- who were, in his estimation, "...little guys with Coke-bottle glasses and pants up to here (indicates chest)..." Seein' as how he was one 'o my favorite actors at the time, that kinda stung. That, along with the inevitable movie star or director who says they've never read comic books, sets my teeth on edge. I HATE generalizations. My vision is 20/20, my friends, so I can see bullshit pretty damn well. My weight fluctuates (I rebel against the diet sometimes), so I'm not some stereotypical Jabba the Doughboy, nor do I weigh about a buck o'five. I wash the bugs out of my hair every once in a while, and change my Punisher T-shirt when the guys down at the gaming shop where I hang out ALL THE TIME start to complain. I have a spouse of the opposite sex and children, and man, I've commented on this in the past, do I ever wish I could live in my parents' basement! Those guys got it fuckin' made. My friends (yeah, got those too, I'm afraid) work like I do, have families like I do, and have interests like I do. Hell, some of 'em do exceedingly well for themselves (fuckers). We watch movies that, chances are, you've probably seen, and listen to music a few other people have heard of. Some of us even read print, and don't know the first thing about playing Evercrack. And people we don't know that well have been heard to comment that we are "cool" (whatever that is). In other words, we're not all like THAT, mmmkay? When I look over what remains of my collection, I feel nods to the various X-Men events would nice and all, but I don't think everyone's demanding they be followed like scripture. I hope not. I'm pretty sure, at one point or another, a relationship had been hinted at between Ororo and Logan. I mean, she's a the archetypical Earth-Mother, very, shall we say, confident with her body, and Wolverine's, well, Wolverine. But in the movies, they were philisophically divided. And she's like a small, cute pale imitation of the real Storm. So, no. I detect no heat there. Halle is hardly an overnight success, I know she's slogged through her career for over a decade to get in the position she has. But instead of casting someone exotic, tall, serene, and commanding, it's like they said "Yeah, Halle's a pretty woman of color! She's the one." The most avid fan will eventually break down and admit the X-Men's continuity is a bitch. COMPLEX. And not reader-friendly to anyone who is less than a hard-core fan. Some of that stuff, especially the characters and storylines that the 10-to-12 year-olds thought was "kewell" in the 90s, have simply been abandoned and forgotten, and I say good riddance. This is comic book superheroes, man. Writers try out concepts, artists go through phases, trends come into, or go out of, vogue, and societal viewpoints shift. Baby, things change. I'm trying not to care overly much at this point. Y'know, I was always afraid they'd use the overabundance of blue guys excuse. No Nightcrawler? How?! I take into consideration the fact that what we've heard up to this point is a mixture of rumor, theory, and conjecture. We have to be realistic. And realistically, this movie has some problems to overcome. At best, it will do well. But right now, it feels like it'll be missing the logic, originality, and familiarity of the first two. Ah, well. Like they say in Recovery, Live and let God, right?

  • June 19, 2005, 2:07 p.m. CST

    Actually...

    by Ribbons

    ...I guess Nightcrawler doesn't have to come back. Thinking about everything that happened in 'X2,' it's not like assumed that he'd join the X-Men, and his character was exlored well and so on and so forth. Good point Master Whedon. I still would've liked to see more of him because he IS one of my favorite characters, but that's certainly not objective. Eh well.

  • June 19, 2005, 2:17 p.m. CST

    why we'll miss nightcrawler

    by teddanson37

    an x-men movie without nightcrawler shouldn't really matter. i don't think it matters who our top favorite x-men are. i love gambit. but he's not essential to the x-men story. and nightcrawler is one of those characters that is "really cool" but not someone that makes or breaks a good x-men story. i think the most important characters are the ones you have to have to make a story that's really about the X-men. i'm thinking of xavier or cyclops (they need a good leader), jean grey, wolvie, and then they need some comic relief such as nightcrawler, beast, or iceman (like iceman was in the comics not like he is in the movie). nightcrawler isn't one of those characters we have to have. but we've lost all the ones we do need, so the loss of nightcrawler is rather tragic just because now we are left with only storm and wolvie returning from the old team, if cyclops, profX are dying and jean's gone bad. no nightcrawler just adds more pain to this script review.

  • June 19, 2005, 2:30 p.m. CST

    Casting is Screwing with Team Chemistry

    by stlfilmwire

    When the group starts changing simply because Jackman and Berry are more expensive, then the movie falls apart. Cyclops, Ice Man, and Angel need to be the big boys in the next movies.

  • June 19, 2005, 6:22 p.m. CST

    blahblah i am a nerd

    by d8cam

    blah blah blah

  • June 19, 2005, 7:36 p.m. CST

    I was really hoping the news wouldn't get any worse.

    by Devil'sOwn

    I thought that script was some kind of grotesque joke. Sorry, but I assumed it was a given Nightcrawler would return. They took a chance on this character and it payed off. This really pisses me off. Like many of us, to me the X-Men are family. Scary family, but family nonetheless. And the Elf was like that strange, yet cool cousin who exposed you to aspects of life you'd never heard of. On behalf of fans everywhere, I'd like to apologize to Allen.

  • June 19, 2005, 7:42 p.m. CST

    Fuck! I'm so upset, I can't even spell!!

    by Devil'sOwn

    I meant Alan.

  • June 19, 2005, 7:53 p.m. CST

    THIS IS SO.........RONG!!!! WHAT ARE THEY DOING

    by GreenL07

    I CAN"T BELIVE THIS!!!!!!! I AM SO ANGRY! HOW CAN THEY SCRUE UP X-MEN LIKE THIS!!!!

  • June 19, 2005, 8:11 p.m. CST

    With apologies to Robert Sanchez... THIS SUCKS SOUR FROG'S A

    by Devil'sOwn

    Oh, I'm sorry, does that offend your tender little sensibilities? Well, here's one more thing: FUCK YOU.

  • June 19, 2005, 8:23 p.m. CST

    Game over, man! Game over!!

    by Devil'sOwn

    That tears it. I'm out.

  • June 19, 2005, 8:25 p.m. CST

    RIP Nightcrawler

    by adolfoliver

    The screenwriters had a chance to embrace a visually arresting superhero with out-of-the-ordinary powers and a great personality, and have now lost that, along with most every other original concept this franchise had going for it, in lieu of some pretty cliche additions. A hunky, white, boy billionaire and blue, furry Beast (considering there have already been Nightcrawler and Mystique)as well as the PLOT are not very creative. While I liked these characters in the comics, I somehow do not think the writers will pull of caputuring their personality on screen. The bad press this movie is garnering (I've read unflattering articles in EW and on usatoday.com) is going to dog this unprofitable mess until it ends it's theatrical run next summer.

  • June 19, 2005, 8:33 p.m. CST

    huh?

    by blackthought

    there still making this? i thought it was joke....

  • June 19, 2005, 9:39 p.m. CST

    adolfoliver

    by Ribbons

    You've read an unflattering article about 'X3' in Entertainment Weekly? 'Cause I subscribe to Entertainment Weekly and I haven't noticed anything like that. There was an article ABOUT 'X3,' but if anything it was just a bunch of positive spin, aside from mentioning briefly how Vaughan dropped out

  • June 19, 2005, 9:51 p.m. CST

    HOLY SHIT

    by rogue_290

    you mean this script is actually legit?? i thought it was some kind of a joke or fake or something. look, i may not know as much as a lot of other fans, the only reason i ever became an x-men fan in the first place was cause i fell in love with the saturday morning cartoons when i was a kid, but even i know that this scrpt is fuckin shit. i watched the first movie and never told anyone that i was actually kinda disappointed, but i wanted to give the franchise a chance. i wathced the second and i loved it! the characters, the action scenes, everything was cool. all forgiven. but this script is.....we're doomed. X2 really looked like it was setting up for another cool storyline but this? please tell me this is some massive fuckin joke

  • June 20, 2005, 2:12 a.m. CST

    ribbons

    by adolfoliver

    I just read the article again and you are right. The blurb was overall pretty neutral, with a positive spin on the the troubled production. I guess, given what has transpired with the franchise, I read the article with these ominous developments in mind.

  • June 20, 2005, 3:45 p.m. CST

    Goebbels?

    by DennisMM

    Moriarty writes, " Listening to [Rothman] talk about what a friend he is to genre filmmakers was akin to being at a Shoah Foundation dinner where the guest of honor was Joseph Goebbels." Mori, standing in for every Holocaust survivor remaining in the world, I'd like to say a big, "Fuck you." How dare you? Why not the equivalent of the Bataan Death March? The rape camps of Bosnia? This is more like Rothman crapping in your mouth as he talks about what a gastronome he is. Get a grip.

  • June 21, 2005, 8:48 a.m. CST

    erm best post yet <<

    by madeupkid

    X-Men 1: An evil plan to FORCEFULLY CHANGE ALL HUMANS INTO MUTANTS - KILLING MANY IN THE PROCESS X-Men 2: An evil plan to KILL ALL LIVING MUTANTS X-Men 3: An evil plan to... um SAFELY TURN WILLING MUTANTS INTO HUMANS BY WAY OF AN EASY TO ADMINISTER DRUG Even if you wanted to continue along this same story arch for 3 MORE films (which is a crime, the X-Men universe isn&#39;t just about human/mutant dissension), from what I

  • June 21, 2005, 9:05 a.m. CST

    It Comes Down To Marvel

    by DeathStalker

    Marvel owns the rights and they sign them away at the drop of a hat - look at the UTTER CRAP that they called The Man-Thing -- it had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the comic!!! Sony has provided the blueprints for all GOOD comic movies in Spider-Man. At least Blade had style, if no real substance. Punisher was rather bland; FF looks to suck ass. It goes beyond comprehension HOW a complete moron like Rothman can keep his job. Of course, it also goes beyond comprehension how Hollywood can continue to churn out GARBAGE after GARBAGE and expect the public to shell out money for it. And they WONDER why they&#39;re in an all-time slump? Oh wait, of course, it&#39;s those notorious internet movie pirates and file-traders that are to blame for all that, remember? - one can NEVER question the "quality" of Hollywood. As a screenwriter it makes me SICK!

  • June 21, 2005, 10:57 p.m. CST

    Check out this shit

    by I Dunno

    "ccusing Revolution Studios and Sony Pictures Entertainment of copyright infringement and unfair competition, Marvel Enterprises and 20th Century Fox have filed suit against Sony and Revolution says The Hollywood Reporter. The suit claims that the upcoming Sony/Revolution sci-fi comedy "Zoom" starring Tim Allen uses key elements from the "X-Men" franchise. "Zoom" has yet to start production, but the premise involves teenage mutant super-heroes, an underground training facility, and a sinister government program which are a signature of the "X-Men" franchise. What&#39;s causing all the ruckus is Sony&#39;s decision to release "Zoom" next May 12th, just two weeks before "X3" comes out. The lawsuit, seeking injunctive relief and monetary damages, makes the release date a key part of the complaint." DIE, HOLLYWOOD. no, I&#39;m not even kidding. Seriously. DIE. Die now. That is all.

  • June 22, 2005, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Are we being punk&#39;d??

    by xxhplinkxx

    Im expecting Ashton Kutcher to jump out at us any moment now... HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU KILL CYCLOPS AND PROF. X??? Withoug Cyke, Jean really has no reason to try to get rid of dark pheonix. And who the hell sat there and thought... "hmm, Storm would be better at the head of things so lets kill prof. x." COME ON!! So Halle-freaking-Berry wants more to do... have her clean up the x-mansion then! or just dont have her in this film at all. I mean, I like her and all but how can she demand more in an ensemble??? thats how they work, no ONE person leads, its a group effort. I like the idea of Angel and Rogue possibly joining the brotherhood though, but an x-men without cyke to me just isnt x-men! And I really dont think wolvie jumping in the sack with storm is such a good idea either when hes in love with jean... AHHH KILL ME!!! I just cant believe this shit is happening.

  • June 22, 2005, 1:07 p.m. CST

    X-Men 3: The Death of A Franchise

    by Zuberlan

    They might as well call this movie "X-Men 3: Death of A Franchise", because that is exactly what this script is going to take it. If they can&#39;t get Bryan Singer and his writing team to do this movie than they might as well not make this movie at all. Its better to take your time and do a movie right than rush it out and completely screw a tentpole franchise like this up. I seriously thought that movie producers learned by now to not piss off the fans of a series. If you screw it up for the fans who else do you than have? Seriously though, somebody needs to start an online petition so this movie does not get made unless Bryan Singer and company come back to it. What I don&#39;t understand is why Avi Arad is sitting back and letting this happen when he himself knows this is going to be the most controversial movie in the series. All he seems to be doing is sitting back and watching as Brett Ratner and Tom Rothman lead this good franchise into a slow and agonizing death.

  • June 24, 2005, 12:23 p.m. CST

    isn&#39;t that illegal?

    by meaghant

    OK. This is the way I see it....the person responsible for posting this information is in some serious trouble. I am in law school atm and I see some intellectual property infringement issues with what was said above. AICN stepped over the line this time...and I bet someone gets in deep doo doo...(hmm hmm Moriarty)

  • June 24, 2005, 6:48 p.m. CST

    Not likely, meagahant

    by I Dunno

    ...and do we really need more lawyers?

  • July 1, 2005, 7:46 a.m. CST

    I feel sick...

    by Hushman

    Reading that made me sick to my stomach... I loved the X-men franchise so much, and now they&#39;re ripping it apart... the death of Cyclops is so pointless, it&#39;s all just... turning to crap... argh how could they do this...??

  • July 3, 2005, 7:16 p.m. CST

    What&#39;s the hurry?

    by Panik

    I know this discussion is old but I just want to say I don&#39;t think it&#39;s necessary that X3 be the Dark Phoenix Saga. In order to do it right, they should first do a movie about her being *just* Phoenix. That way when she becomes Dark Phoenix in the next movie it has more meaning (at least to me). Instead of a dumb blue serum why can&#39;t Worthington Senior be financing Trask&#39;s first attempt at a Sentinel project? It may be expensive to do several giant robots but how about the X-Men fighting the prototype. Or Mastermold? Surely just one giant robot would be within the movie&#39;s budget. And since it&#39;s a robot that can learn from attacks it can really give the team a run for their money. That way when Phoenix returns all powerful she can save everyone by destroying the robot during the X-Men&#39;s darkest hour. Also I think Hank McCoy should not start out as blue. We just saw him on TV *without* fur in X2. They should at least have the courtesy to explain his sudden transformation.

  • July 15, 2005, 12:06 p.m. CST

    Y not Hellfire club?

    by DillonX316

    Why doesn&#39;t fox and the writers scrap the crappy idea of the gay serum and go with a hellfire club storyline since in the books they wanted to have the pheonix on they&#39;re side. it would be much btter than X2 again. plus there would be room for a sage and emma frost cameo. and the whole thing of scott and xavier dieing would be terrible and they would probably end up just disregarding X3 if X4 was ever made since Xavier is basically who leads the x-men.

  • Aug. 1, 2005, 11:57 p.m. CST

    Changes that are needed

    by armyofninos

    They really need to push the Phoenix story as the main one and leave the serum as a mor secondary one. Granted, it sounds too much like the drops in X2. Maybe they could distribute it in another way? But why blue? Between Nightcrawler, Beast (probably), and Mystique, they must have ran out of serum. I don&#39;t mind them offing Cyclops, but not in such a retarded way. They also better not kill off Xavier or Magneto... that is assanine. If they play Wolverine&#39;s character as the guy who tries to rescue Jean and the guy that eventually saves her, they can give him a bigger and more dimensional part. I agree Rogue should also be played up, and Pyro needs to fit in somewhere (I suspect he and Colossus will have tiny parts). I&#39;m a little worried that the person they cast as Kitty Pryde looks a lot like Anna Paquin. I&#39;m pissed at the lack of Nightcrawler. Demutanizing Mystique is very ballsy, and may work well. But the story doesn&#39;t quite gel, and I&#39;m worried there are far too many characters.

  • Aug. 9, 2005, 11:31 p.m. CST

    The X-Men 3 Ending

    by blue_julian_rap

    The ending should be the x-men fight with the Phoenix. Instead of the serum being used against mutants, Magneto should take the serum and try to use it on humans and make the humans into mutants.That why the X-men can split up. one team goes after jean:Cyclops,Storm,Wolverine,Angel.Then a second team fights the brotherhood:RogueIceman,kitty,beast . This way rouge touches juggernut like in the comic and gets incredible strength. After team one finds jean,they join up with team 2 then the jean/phoenix takes on the brotherhood by herself.This will show the x-men how powerful she is. Magnetothen reminds herabout how humans hate mutants. Then humans see the phoenix thinking she&#39;s doing harm.Then a mob of humans from the streets then start to mob towards the x-men. they&#39;re throwing things and the phoenix then gets upset,she now see the hatered and turns into dark phoenix.At first The x-men almost go into battle but xavier uses his mind powers and tells them to retreat back to the mansion. This is where the x-men watch in cerebro how the phoenix is going ballistic while beast makes a surm to turn the humans turned mutants back into humans.the surm only works on humans. Xavier and the x-men then suite up in new uniforms. they go back to the city in the x-jet . |The x-men then approach the phoenix, each x-men has a couple of secs of screen time fighting with the phoenix. After she&#39;s done with fighting each member that&#39;s when xavier challenges her. Somehow he uses cyclops memories of love like their wedding as how much she is loved. Jean/phoenix finally falls to the ground crying about Her eyes of fire turn back to normaly and she clapses tothegroundand cyclops catches her. Beast then starts zaping the citizen that got the virus and the brother hood then escape from the city. Magneto tells xavier the war between them isn&#39;t over. The x-men then retreat back to the mansion. Weeks past and jean awakes from her coma to a room full of teamates. Now they&#39;er all happy. Now this ending is optional but this would definately end the movie off well. You see pyramids and you see the brotherhood they go down a tomb and Juggernut opens this giant casket.Magneto says some kind of spell, Then the tomb rumbles and up awakes APOCOLYPSE! This is how I would do the movie.

  • Dec. 20, 2005, 11:37 a.m. CST

    egads!

    by Jenscot

  • April 28, 2006, 1:57 p.m. CST

    They have made massive changes to this scipt since...

    by Novaman5000

    This review. Wolverine and Storm no longer hook up. We no longer see Cyke dying (though he still dies... along with that other big character that I don&#39;t want to spoil but if you think about it for a second you&#39;ll know exactly who it is) and other thigns seems to have at least tighted this film up A LITTLE. That being said, I don&#39;t have much hope... At this point, if it doesn&#39;t totally suck I&#39;ll consider it a sucess.

  • April 28, 2006, 4:06 p.m. CST

    Pretty inexcusable?

    by TELF

    What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

  • April 28, 2006, 4:06 p.m. CST

    Anchorite...

    by drew mcweeny

    ... um, considering it&#39;s only when someone posts a talkback that something gets pulled up to the "most frequent talkbacks" bar, how is that our fault? Some idiot decided to spam this article with 50 empty posts. We deleted them, but the article had already been bumped. Don&#39;t blame us.

  • April 28, 2006, 8:51 p.m. CST

    no, but we can blame you

    by samsquanch

    for obviously banning all X3 news. That&#39;s pretty fucking obvious. What&#39;s up with that anyhow?

  • April 28, 2006, 10:40 p.m. CST

    What News Is There?

    by drew mcweeny

    It&#39;s coming out in a few weeks. We&#39;ll review it then. Right now, what do you want? Breathless headlines about TV commercials? We ran stories all the way through development and shooting. Nobody banned anything.

  • June 8, 2007, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Last!!!!!!!!!! Ever!!

    by vanfan

    My mommy always told me i'd amount to something. ^^every brainfarter up there^^ sucks compared to me.

  • May 3, 2009, 9:19 p.m. CST

    x3 sucks balls

    by supercowbell4therequestformorecowbell

  • May 25, 2010, 11:14 p.m. CST

    Last

    by Double M

    And this review nailed it. Movie was HORRIBLE