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Does Spielberg
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
It’s a Western miniseries starring the stars of the some of the best cancelled shows of the last few years: Skeet Ulrich (“Miracles”), Alan Tudyk (“Firefly”) and Josh Brolin (“Mister Sterling”). But it was written by William Mastrosimone, whose last bigscreen effort was the appalling 1994 Joe Pesci-Brendan Fraser dramedy “With Honors.”
The Hollywood Reporter says:
… Given its quality-driven pedigree, you almost hate to point out that what emerges is more Hallmark card gloss than envelope-pushing grit, particularly because it serves up some truly captivating elements. … laden with violence rather than edge and trumped-up symbolism at the expense of any deeper meaning. It works to cover perhaps a bit too much ground while at the same time failing to supply any fresh insight into the momentous, nation-altering events of the western territory's past and their ultimate legacy. And the characters are too much about one-dimensional virtue, which is nearly always less compelling than watching people who balance their goodness with flaws and issues. Variety says:
… stumbles through its ambitious journey, ultimately resembling the hokey "settling the West" films shown at Disneyland, minus the "Circle-Vision 360." Featuring a stampede of genre cliches, Steven Spielberg's imprimatur doesn't compensate for a confusing narrative or forge a connection with the herd of characters in this dramatically malnourished study guide. Despite TNT's enviable record with Westerns, "Into the West" (based on the first three chapters) needed a clearer road map and can't ride into the sunset soon enough. … Entertainment Weekly gives it an “B-plus” and says:
… West later grows epic in scope and cast (Keith Carradine, Keri Russell, and Beau Bridges appear), to tell the tale of two peoples united in blood.… USA Today gives it two stars (out of four) and says:
… If the journey Into the West had really been this dull, we'd all still be huddled along the Eastern seaboard.… More pedantic than dramatic … a helter-skelter story populated by bland, buckskin-clad clichés. What's missing is the story-driven heft, the indelible characters and the acting fireworks of Lonesome Dove … The Seattle Post Intelligencer says:
… this is television, not a classroom. If you need visual aids to figure out who's who only a few hours into a television series, it may not be worth watching again (and again). … New Age, "Dances With Wolves" hooey … no actor's going to be up for an Emmy with this series … skitters off in too many directions … the sad fact is, the same viewers who were bowled over by romance novel Westerns such as "Lonesome Dove" probably won't care that the makers of "Into the West" had an amazing opportunity here -- and fumbled. 8 p.m. Friday. TNT.
Two, by most accounts, much better Old West miniseries, available on DVD:
Lonesome Dove ($11.24)
and Return To Lonesome Dove ($11.98).
Look! A fabulous new book co-edited by big-deal "Buffy"-"Firefly"-"Gilmore Girls" TV writer Jane Espenson. She introduces each of the essays, and the whole book besides:
Finding Serenity: Anti-Heroes, Lost Shepherds and Space Hookers in Joss Whedon's Firefly
Were Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader two different people in the early drafts of “The Empire Strikes Back”? All is revealed in The Annotated Screenplays (Star Wars, Episodes IV-VI)
Difficulty putting the best TV series in the history of history behind you? Seven Seasons of Buffy: Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers Discuss Their Favorite Television Show
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Jun 10, 2005 2:13:32 AM CDT
Lonesome Dove is indeed the best thing ever produced for the tel
by monkeybrains
Bar none. No qustions asked. Thank you for coming...... I'll check this out only because the other Speilberg series, "Band of Brothers" & "Taken" were interesting. Plus I'm sure TNT will show it a million times so it will be impossible to miss
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Lonesome Dove is the best western miniseries to grace the tele-screen, with great performances from a talented cast, like Robert Duvall, Tommy Lee Jones, Danny Glover, Dianne Lane, Angelica Huston, and many others. Unfortunately the trailer from Into the West hasn't stirred my interest, but hey, I'll give it a whirl...I may still be surprised (though my gut feeling says otherwise.)
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But I'm really liking how Deadwood presents the west with a little bit more tabasco.
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Jun 10, 2005 5:35:42 AM CDT
Spielberg shoud stay off tv ---EARTH 2, the alien series (forgot
by spacesheik
stick to the big screen dude
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what movie is that from? or is it an "original"??
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It's from High Tension, if I'm not mistaken. That new French slasher.
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You just got a bunch of white stuff on Rachel Leigh Cook's face, boys! (Courtesty of an old Harlan Ellison review of a pilot she appeared in).
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...and no other Western will do.
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Don't get me wrong - it IS stunning for what they've managed to do on a TV show, and they've made it more convincing, and with more integrity than most other WW2 films.
However, it's hardly Buffy. The episodes just start randomly, the plot is usually a long running one and each episode doesn't have it's own plot or identity. There's no cool lines or comedy (which is often very apparent in wartimes), and there's nothing inventive about the action. If Joss Whedon had wrote it, he would have made it very cool to watch, with compelling storylines and amazing dialogue. As it stands, it was a waste opportunity. Same with The Sopranos. -
deal with it.
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See, you're the kind of Whedonite that gives those of us who do love his stuff a bad name. You cannot compare something like Band of Brothers with Buffy, they are completely different kinds of series. You need to look beyond Whedon and realize that other kinds of movie, series etc. exist and they don't have to follow Whedon's style. I think Whedon is one of the best writers working in the business but I don't compare everything to his work nor do I think he's perfect for every project that comes open.
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with his "Buffy" associations. Daddy Tones, you put Herc to shame. Do you lie awake at night in your Angel Underoos frustrated by your unrequited Whedon-inspired man-lust? Has the fire department repeatedly forced you to take down your Buffy Shrine because the numerous candles pose a fire hazard? Has Whedon's restraining order forbiding you from contacting him directly so restricted your ability to express your love for him that these talkbacks are your only outlet? Let me help you. Repeat after me: Joss Whedon, he's just a man, he's just a man, he's just a man. (I know guys, I shouldn't feed the trolls, but sometimes it's fun to poke them with a stick)
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Spielberg stole 20 hours of my life with "Taken". "Won't get fooled again! No, No!!"
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Geez.
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But I wish Carradine was playing Hickok..... Cocksuckers
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He must be because to compare Band of Brothers with Buffy is like saying that a Ford Escort is better than a '69 Mustang.
Seriously what has he done (other than a credit for helping write Toy Story)? I can't speak for Serenity, it might be good.
Alien: resurection=Shit
Buffy= decent television if you are a teenage girl
Angle= See comment for Buffy.
Admit it, the only reason any adult male watched Buffy was for the T&A factor.
Granted Wheldon has his place in the industry, but to say that he would have made Band of Brothers cool is crazy talk. -
LMAO. The idiocy in this talkback is actually astonishing, even for AIC.
Buffy v. Band of Brothers? You complain because BOB doesn't have any "snappy" dialouge? The reason why it doesn't, dipshit, is its about REAL FUCKING PEOPLE and what they did in a REAL FUCKING WAR. BOB is by far the best tv miniseries ever produced. Real people, real events, the way they happened.
Hell, BOB is basically taking Ambrose's book and turning it into a script, verbatim. If you think you need snappy "buffyverse" lingo to make a decent series, just do us all a favor, and go play in traffic.
And as for good western miniseries, try Centennial. Probably before most of you kiddies could even find the TV remote, but it was pretty damn good. It's not a "western" in the "classic" sense, in that it is about the westward expansion from around 1800 to 1850.
Also, John Jakes' books "The Rebels" and some others I forget the names of now, were also made into tv movies/miniseries back in the late 70's and were also fairly good. -
You don't NEED to whedonize dialogue when you have REAL people saying this:
"Looks like you are surrounded, Captain."
"We're paratroopers, Lieutenant. We're supposed to be surrounded."
When someone in history has actually SIAD something as profound as that, you don't fucking NEED "buffyese."
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that is all
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Starting when the new Sci Fi friday primieres next month, SciFi will air Firefly starting at 7, for the entire 13 episode run. No word on picking the series up though.
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Jun 10, 2005 1:15:46 PM CDT
So Entertainment Weekly saw the whole thing, but these other bas
by lordenigma
Because it sure does seem that way. What can you do? Critics. They are a bunch of wankers who couldnt keep their opinions straight if you provided them a crib sheet to keep them straight.
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just a rich man's Skeet Ulrich
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Snappy dialogue my fucking arse!. Band of Brothers contained the single most heart-wrenching line ever uttered on television. "My grandson asked me if I was a hero during the war. I told him no, but I served in a company of heroes" Anyone who doesn't choke up even a little when the elderly Dick Winters says that is dead inside!
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i'll admit band of brothers doesn't have bad fight coreography with stock punch sound effects.but come on, band of brothers is so much better than every season of buffy combined it's ridiculous.
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this whedon guy is obviously a troll.. Think about it, he goes to a completely random talkback and posts " is cool, but if whedon would have done it, it would be better", and he gets a bunch of morons replying "bloody murder!". it's almost funny.. WTF does whedon have to do with anything here? As for this 'into the west' thing, I'll watch because of my arab-italian-spanish heritage.
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If you want great dialogue, intricate storylines, conflicted heroes and villains (cuz even the protagonist is a bit of a bastard), shocking violence and palpable tension, look no further than ANY given episode of Deadwood. Best show on TV... Buffy is cute and all, but I can't believe how much some people invest in Joss's goofy shit.
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Jun 10, 2005 7:57:58 PM CDT
Yeah: so what you're saying is that you like BoB even though
by daddy tones
Every episode in BoB is just part of the ongoing plot. This is the main fundamental problem with it (and with other HBO shows like Six Feet Under, and The Sopranos). In Joss Whedon's TV, there IS AN OVERARCHING STORYLINE. However, the episodes are still fully self contained storylines that can be watched singly and still be interesting and provide closure at the end. Episodes of BoB begin in the middle of a conversation (which ends up having nothing to do with the plot) and ends with a random conversation about where they're going next week. IT'S LIKE CHAPTERS FROM A BOOK - which is the problem. IN A BOOK, CHAPTERS WORK. IN TV, EACH EPISODE NEEDS TO BE SEPARATE. Regarding the issue of boring dialogue, I don't think this can be excused. The dialogue in one scene of Buffy is more interesting and subtle and naunced than in an entire episode of BoB. Joss Whedon would ADAPT HIS WRITING TO FIT IN WITH THE SITUATION. His writing in Firefly further proved what a literary genius the man is. He would have made it a ruly brilliant show. Because as it stands, it's an example of how throwing money at something won't automatically make it good.
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What a pile of crap.
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Jun 10, 2005 8:40:35 PM CDT
First Talk Back Post: Daddy Tones-What In The Hell Are You Talki
by cruniac
I've seen Buffy/Angel/Firefly, and yes, they were good shows. I've watched/read Band of Brothers, and this was an Amazing series. Comparing the real life tales of men in combat, complete with real dialogue, and (for my money at least) the BEST dramatization of war on sceen with the antics and fantasy of Whedon's work is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the most asine thing I've ever read. To the point of storyline/closure/ and your wonderful take on BOB beginnings having now meaning, go watch the first episode, you remember it right? With the group preparing to jump into Normandy? And Winter's remembering the training of Easy Company, do you remember how that episode ended? Right back at the end with them jumping into Normandy! It's called bookending. It is a complete episode, the beginning fucking matters everything the speak of relates to the training and struggle to get there and the mounmental struggle of the war to come.
And for Overarching storyline, there is one...its called the FUCKING SECOND WORLD WAR YOU RAGING JACKASS! Dialogue wise, soulless had it right on! You don't need snappy quips of offbeat humor when taking fire from hedge rows and freezing in the Ardennes surrounded by Germans and hanging on for dear life. I'm sure the show would have been ten times better if it was Whendonized, cause thats what we came to see right? Not the war, the comradery, or the struggle, but fucking snappy comebacks. Each episode stands alone, completes the storyline of the time, and yes, prepares the audience for what is ahead....its called foreshadowing. Actually, I have a feeling you haven't even watched BOB, nor read the book, and yes, if you didn't choke up at Winter's discussio with the grandson at the end, then you are heartless, or simple unable to comprehend that when non-fiction is better the fiction, you don't need to rewrite it! -
or did anyone else watching this keep thinking that the main Wheeler brother of this episode(can't recall his name, Jacob Maybe), looks like a slightly older Tom Welling, and would have made a good Superman?
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Jun 10, 2005 10:03:55 PM CDT
Okay, lets see THE MOON, WWII & now the OLD WEST. What era is le
by orionsangels
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Jun 10, 2005 11:19:15 PM CDT
This movie doesnt look authentic enough, the indians look too cl
by orionsangels
Also the Indians don't look Indian rnough, look at ol west photographs. This was probably hard to cast, because most authetic looking indians were kiled off and bloodlines were ended, most american indians today have some white in their family.
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was that moriarty i saw in reservoir dogs:revisited on ifc?
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I love Buffy, it is my all time favorite television show. I would also read or watch anything penned or produced by Whedon because he is a geniu... but Band of Brothers is the best thing ever made for television, hands down. Nothing comes close, in my opinion. They just got it right. And, as people have pointed out, Whedon's style just wouldnt be right for it. This is based on reality, and must play with realistic emotion and dialogue. Whedon's dialogue and plotting are entertaining as hell, but i wouldn't call them all that realistic. So there it is. As great as Whedon is, it doesn't mean everything in the fuckin world would be better if he wrote, directed, and produced it. Supermonkey out.
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I agree that if you aren't touched by Winter's words about serving in a company of heroes, then you don't have a heart... or maybe you just don't have any kind of concept of sacrifice and humility. I feel a little chill everytime i hear he say that.
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Jun 11, 2005 8:22:46 AM CDT
I WAS touched by Winters words at the end - however, if Joss Whe
by daddy tones
For Gods sake, the writers DID NOT TELL Winters what to say in his interview. They just asked questions about the events of the various episodes, and inserted them into the episodes beginning. HOW WHEDON CAN DO EMOTIONAL AND REALISTIC DIALOGUE WHEN HE WANTS TO. Have you SEEN The Body? Hmm? That's generally regarded by fans and critics alike as the most heartbreaking episode of TV ever made. Buffy is not a heartbreaking show every episode. It it meant to be entertaining. Just because Joss Whedon is the most entertaining writer ever, it DOES NOT MEAN HE CAN'T WRITE REALISTIC STUFF. You've pigeonholed him because you're idiots. Joss CAN adjust his writing to fit in the situation. More over, in real life people ARE witty, and if the dialogue in Band of Brothers had been wittier, it would NOT have meant the show was less realistic or had less integrity. It would have just made the show even better. Joss's speciality lies not in directing or characters, but in story and dialogue. Firefly is one of the most outstanding pieces of Television ever made in terms of storytelling - and practically every single line uttered in Buffy is witty and clever.
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if you fell for his bs about Buffy v. Band of Brothers.
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Jun 11, 2005 8:26:27 AM CDT
As a rule, cancelled television shows do not get made into big-b
by daddy tones
Obviously, there is something about Serenity that is special. Do you think that the Universal execs just said yes to the movie without even seeing the show? NO. They saw every single episode, and decided to give it more backing than they've ever done before for this kind of project. Once Joss Whedon becomes as famous as Tarantino (shortly after the release of Serenity, I presume), you'll all be shaking in your stylish yet affordable boots. Because, to be perfectly honest, I don't think any of you have even SEEN Buffy before, and you all think it's a stupid teen show about a girl fighting cheesy vampires. Get a fucking clue.
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Jun 11, 2005 8:33:37 AM CDT
"Daddy Tones: Discuss", or "Why Can People On This Site Never Sp
by seepgood
I mean, don't remarks like "There's no cool lines or comedy" ring any alarm bells? Don't you notice that while putting the boot into a masterpiece for not being Buffy, he then mentions in passing a couple of similarly flawed series - namely The Sopranos and Six Feet Under, both of which also happen to be among the finest TV drama ever produced? Does that not give you the slightest inkling that this is a wind-up? And for the regular visitors to this site, have you never noticed that whenever Daddy Tones posts he always compares something unfavourably to the works of Joss Whedon, or that he's the latest in a string of suspiciously consecutive posters with different IDs but the same MO? It's a leg-pull which is given a hint of credibility by the presence of those Buffy obsessives who seem to believe that Joss Whedon really is the be-all and end-all of screen-writing. It was mildly amusing for a while but the endless repetition of the same joke begins to get irritating. And it's not going to stop until people stop biting.
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Like we CARE? Please. This just makes me want to find my "Injun" Halloween costume from 1967, and go "Whoo, whoo, whoo." "Me wantum white woman." (Or in my case, white man.)
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Jun 11, 2005 10:36:56 AM CDT
Band of Brothers is the best thing ever produced for television.
by iamjack'suserid
And some of you people are just... man. I can't even think about it. The last line of BoB, as said by Winters, makes me choke up EVERYTIME. I agree with that poster. Now how this terrific series got compared to Buffy or whomever somehow managed to interject Joss Whedon into the thing seriously needs a few mental check ups and soon.
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Jun 11, 2005 11:35:43 AM CDT
It's a simple idea: If Joss Whedon had been the lead writer
by daddy tones
That's not to say it's not already a good show: because it is, it's brilliant. All I'm saying is, where it excels in direction, casting, acting, and characters, it lacks in the story and dialogue. DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT BAND OF BROTHERS COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE IMPROVED?! It is not perfect - not even close. The closest we have gotten to perfecting on network TV is the episode of Buffy called Once More With Feeling. For all intents and purposes, THE BUFFY MUSICAL CAN NOT BE IMPROVED. It physically can not be improved. Does this make it perfect - or does it merely show off other writers in the business today to be imperfect? Even if Shakespeare did a rewrite, he still could not improve it. Band of Brothers on the other hand, CAN BE IMPROVED. You ALL keep mentioning that one line said be Richard Winters (and to be honest, it's not even that good a line, and if you're choking up on it I suspect you may be homosexuals). To date, there has not been a single recorded case of a human being on this planet that has seen The Body and not cried. If Joss Whedon has written Band Of Brothers, and been given the ridiculous budget, time, and brilliant actors that show had, it could have been the best show ever. As it stands, it is merely a wasted opportunity, hampered by lack of story and poor boring dialogue. Oh and, 'WW2' does not constitute a storyline. It needs more than that.
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I'm sick of seeing the Hollywood version of the old west, like in this miniseries or in Lonesome Dove. The west was nasty, dirty, scabby, smelly, violent, unkempt, and sickly. People didn't have Crest White Strips in the old west! People didn't look like models! People didn't even get to bathe more than once a week, most of the time! American westerns are always full of well-dressed people with pretty smiles in fake-dusty towns. They rarely use the slang of the day, and sometimes they're full of anachronisms and misconceptions. Lonesome Dove was not that good- It was typical Hollywood western fare. I'd love it if we'd get out of that 1950's mentality in regards to westerns. "Young Guns" was cool, and I enjoy it, but as westerns go it's a pretty lousy example of the genre. "Tombstone" was closer than most to getting the right feel, but it stumbled plenty. "Dances With Wolves" is an entertaining 12 hours (seems like it, anyway), but it has many problems that make it "Hollywoodized" rather than genuine. I want my westerns to be dirty, not pretty. I want my heroes to have questionable morals and motivations! None of these clear-cut Hollywood archetypes! I want the political correctness sucked out of the script!!! I don't want to see women, black people, Asians, Native Americans, Mexicans, or easterners being treated fairly and equally in a happy-happy world of whiskey and rainbows in a western movie! Why ignore that we were pretty vile people back then? Why erase the historical truth that WHITE PEOPLE WERE BASTARDS IN THE OLD WEST? Lonesome Dove my ass! That miniseries was great for the pulp western readers, but the rest of us want realism infused rather than this schmaltzy melodrama.
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So, some idiot is comparing the Buffyverse to World War II, eh? Please water the plant. And yes, on it's own merits, Lonesome Dove was a spectacular Western. As to it's being too "clean", errr....seems that I recall that most of the characters in that film DID look pretty dusty and shopworn. And the dialogue was pretty raw by television standards. And remember, that it WAS on television. Free television. No HBO, where the "cocksuckers" and blood and guts could flow with impunity. And for those who say Band of Brothers could have been "better", I'll just say that I spoke to my Grandfather's brother about that. He was IN WW II and according to him, BOB nailed it. He said it was like going back in a time machine and watching it all over again. The battles, the behind the scenes bickering and asshole officers who didn't know shit from shinola. And guys who were some of the noblest people who ever walked the planet. Including guys who many times gave their lives for their buddies. There ya go, Daddy. I bet even Joss Whedon would tell you you're full of shit.
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Jun 11, 2005 1:57:31 PM CDT
"Band of Brothers is the best thing...better than fucking Buffy"
by hypeendshere
Nah. I'd still rather fuck Buffy, mate.
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That being said, I wonder if it picks up in later episodes, which is unfortunate because with something like this, the first few episodes have to hit and catch an audience, you can't hope the last episodes will redeem it. I watched the first episode and it really seems like a crappy, "Hallmark" movie of the week, in other words it has no soul to it. I was fantasticly happy to see Matthew Settle in the film, as his portrayl of Capt. Speirs was great acting, but he really seemed to just be going through the motions with this one.
I think this doesn't need to have the same grit as say, Deadwood, but it definatly needed to bring more to the table than just a boring dramatization of highschool American History lessons. With other series with Spielbergs name all over it like BOB or Taken (which I didn't like that much) it should have been more....relevant than it was. Thats the problem I believe: once I stopped watching the show, I stopped caring or thinking about it. After watching BOB, like many here, that show stuck with me and the characters, dialogue, direction, photography, and overall production remained interesting and great: it was relevant. -
I agree with you about the inane PC that whitewashes over treatment minorities in TV westerns but have you seen Deadwood if not i highly recommend it to you
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You know, right before the fall lineup launches
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Jun 11, 2005 3:38:11 PM CDT
And yeah, Lomesome Dove Was the Best Western to Ever Grace the T
by trik
By Gawd!
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according EW.com 61% of people were put off by Cruise following his recent antics on tv, whilst only 3% liked him more and 36% hadnt changed their opinion.
If I was Spielberg, I would think twice about working with Cruise again, but maybe because Cruise is so powerfull they cant afford not to.
Hollywood does not have the Cajones to tell the story of the west properly and Hollywood is left with the Custer version of history. Native american Indians. Cowboys come along, Native americans get slaughetered, Cowboys win end of story.
Spielberg wont change the history even though of course his own people got massacered in world war two.
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From the commercials TNT is airing you can tell that Into the West IS one of those nonsense Dances with Wolves-New Age type-revisionist westerns. Boooring.
If the producers were filming the myth rather the reality of Western expansion, than they might as well have injected some John Wayne/John Ford type balls into the narrative.
As the above posters have noted, Lonesome Dove is indeed one of the best things done for broadcast television. Not THE best though: don't forget classy mini-series like Roots and Jesus of Nazareth. -
Jun 11, 2005 6:13:27 PM CDT
If Joss Whedon had written Band of Brothers, it would be have be
by daddy tones
And he'd do the same with Pulp Fiction too. That film had too much dialogue and not enough plot, man.
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Get a real server!!
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It describes this mini-series.
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WWII is in need of a better plot. If Whedon had written it we wouldn't have any of this Invasion of Normandy shit. Whedon would have had FDR get out of his wheelchair and fight Hitler in a battle to the death using those big sticks from when Spock fought Kirk. Then when FDR was about to win he would say "looks like you didn't make the final cut" and cut off Hitlers head. Yeah, Whedon could make anything better.
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Jun 13, 2005 12:28:16 AM CDT
I'll never understand the appeal of Buffy. It's typical
by orionsangels
Band of Brothers is the best ever made for TV. Buffy is the dumbing down of television!
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Sure it's not quite Deadwood, but there are few enough shows that depict the fragile relationship between the white settlers and the natives. I think it does a pretty good job of it.
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