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AICN COMICS! HOUSE OF M! A ROUNDTABLE REVIEW WITH ALL OF THE @$$HOLES!!!
Greetings. I am the Moderator, the omniscient and lonely voice of reason haunting the halls of @$$Hole HQ. Sometimes a comic comes along that has been so hyped that no one reviewer at AICN Comics could possibly do it justice. In those cases, the @$$holes gather together from the four corners of the globe to discuss the comics highs, its lows, and what it means to the whole darn comic book industry in a Roundtable Review.
@$$HOLE ROLL CALL
Buzz Maverik
Humphrey Lee
Vroom Socko
Jon Quixote
Ambush Bug
Prof. Challenger
Sleazy G
Dave Farabee
For this Roundtable, the Holes set their sights on the latest crossover event book from Marvel Comics, HOUSE OF M. Since last year’s controversial “Avengers Disassembled” arc, writer Brian Michael Bendis and the House of Ideas have hyped up this book touting that it will shake the foundations of the Marvel Universe and leave it forever changed. In HOUSE OF M, Bendis brings together the Avengers and the X-Men to battle a threat that no one hero can face alone. Be forewarned, SPOILERS abound in these Roundtables. Let’s see what the guys have to say. Okay @$$Holes, now that you’ve read HOUSE OF M, what are your initial thoughts, guys?
Silence.
Guys?
AMBUSH BUG: Yeah…
HUMPHREY LEE: Yep…
MODERATOR: Wait a minute… you guys have nothing to say about this book?
JON QUIXOTE : Uhmmm…
SLEAZY G: Wellll…let’s see.
PROF. CHALLENGER: …a-hem…
Just then, a flaming bird flies through the window and drops off a note in the middle of the table.
BUZZ MAVERIK: Where’s my shotgun? Them’s good eatin’.
VROOM SOCKO: No wait! It’s a note from @$$Hole DAVE FARABEE. It reads – wait a freakin’ minnit…was that bird on fire? Ah never mind. It reads:
DAVE F.: Sorry, guys. I’m not going to be able to make it to this Roundtable Review, but I will be sending messages via my Cormorants periodically. I think it's gonna be a funny roundtable. Good luck finding material to talk about! This is Bendis-pacing in the worst way and far, far from a slam-bang opening. It's almost just a prelude.
VROOM: I'm forced to sort of agree. I don't know that this issue is Roundtableable. I mean, I could review this book, but there's really nothing to DEBATE. We don't even get to the whole "Age of Apocalypse/Zero Hour" knockoff portion of the story here. Perhaps it might be a good idea to do the Roundtable when the second issue comes out. Perhaps it might have been a better idea if this book had been four double-sized issues published monthly instead of eight regular issues published every other week.
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BUZZ: Hell, Vroom, that's what makes this Roundtableable. Big comic. Touted for about a year. Supposed to set the Marvel Universe on its' ear. And something is put out that people are hard pressed to have anything to talk about.
Whose fault is that? Let's see. The writer. Somebody who could have directed the efforts of the writer. A lot of somebodies who would praise 22 blank pages punctuated only by word balloons full of the A-B-Cs as long as it bore the name of the writer.
I fucking love Marvel comics! I love comics period. I love good storytelling. So, when I read this big first issue...I have something to say here.
SLEAZY: Perhaps it was just a bad idea.
BUZZ: I dunno. The thing is, this Roundtable SHOULDN'T be a bad idea. The first issue of a colossal event comic SHOULD be a no-brainer with lots to write about. Love it or hate it, think of how much anyone could have said about issue one of CRISIS ON INIFINITE EARTHS. Or KINGDOM COME. The fact that the biggest mainstream comic publisher gives the key to the city to a guy who has a great talent for making indie crime comics but little for much else...I'd say that's something to talk about.
The hard part is going to be for whoever has to edit this Roundtable. Because, like Bendis, we will need editing.
BUG: Hey, no one edits the @$$Holes!
SLEAZY: Ah, you misunderstand. I meant having Bendis telling this particular story was a bad idea from jump street and never should have been approved, but Joey Q just won't tell the guy no. Ever. To anything.
MODERATOR: Okay, you guys are getting ahead of yourselves. What did you think about HOUSE OF M?
PROF: Crap! Crap! CrappityCrapCrapCrap!
BUZZ: Immediately after the book, with the ending smack square in my mind like a dum dum bullet, I thought, "Wow!" and "Cool!" The possibilities! Bendis and Copiel will really be able to let their imaginations run wild.
Then, I remembered that these weren't all new characters and that anyone accepting money for using them now has the responsibility to deal with their long histories.
PROF: Did I say Crap?
VROOM: I may have been the most vocal online entity in my dislike of “Avengers Disassembled.” I hated the sloppy logic, the contrived ending, the clichéd deaths (Hawkeye lives, motherfucker!), but I was personally reassured by no less than Bendis himself that I would get a blast out of this series. And I may, I don't know. All I know is, the first issue of this series exemplifies both the best and worst of Bendis' writing.
This issue features plenty of fun dialog and magnificent characterization. I especially enjoyed the moment between Quicksilver and Magneto. That's the Bendis I love and respect. Not to mention some magnificent artwork from Oliver Coipel. Just how does Bendis manage to work with so many amazing artists, anyway?
PROF: Crapola!
VROOM: The problem is, this 22 page comic is really little more than a 10 page prologue to an original graphic novel in disguise. What happens here? The characters sit around a table talking about the Scarlet Witch, then the white light from DC's ZERO HOUR shows up, leaving behind... what? The Age of Apocalypse? 1602? I couldn't tell you, because that's where this book ends. It's kind of hard to really pass a qualified judgment on a story when you haven't actually read any of it yet.
BUZZ: I want to see where this is going. The possibilities are intriguing. But since we're going to be told how mature and intelligent this all is, I wish it could be done in a smarter way.
PROF: Steaming pile o' dog crap!
BUG: Initial thoughts? Sure. Here goes with the random non sequiturs ...
Why do these super heroes even wear functional battle costumes anymore since all they do is stand around and talk like they've watched too many David Mamet films?
Why is Luke Cage wearing a McDonalds bag on his head?
Why does Colossus look like the mustache riding champion at the gay rodeo?
Why include Sentry (a character who has yet to join the team in the regular NEW AVENGERS book) when he doesn't even have any lines in this book?
Why did everyone end their sentences in --- ?
I really wanted to go into this thing fresh. I wanted to look at this thing with a fair and unbiased set of peepers, disregarding my dislike for his past work. I repeated to myself before cracking open the cover, "This is not a Bendis book, it's a Marvel event book. This is not a Bendis book. It's a Marvel event book."
And guess what? Looked at as a Bendis book or a Marvel event book, this book reeks any way you slice it.
HUMPH: I agree with Buzz on this so far. One issue in and it is moving along, though its repetitious nature at times can make a case for bringing in the "d" word... oh no, decompression in a Bendis comic, that never happens... oh wait, it does, and it happens everywhere now too. Guess we're all gonna have to deal that trend because it's here to bloody stay.
VROOM: What really irks me about the whole "sitting around and talking" bit is that much of it is not only pointless, but ridiculous. Everyone is talking about having to kill Scarlet Witch in order to stop her, but nobody poses the one question that would solve everything in an instant. Of course they don't, if these characters were actually looking at all their options, there'd be no miniseries. I mean, why should they use that metric ton of prevention (just kill her) when, according to Whedon’s ASTONISHING X-MEN, there's an ounce of Cure just chilling in McCoy's lab?
PROF: Did I say crap yet?
SLEAZY: So you liked it then?
PROF: Grrrr.
SLEAZY: It was pretty much exactly what I expected. Anybody who's surprised by Bendis' (lack of) pacing at this point is just being silly. Anybody who's surprised at the way that the characterization doesn't match up with any other title the characters appear in is just being silly. Anybody wondering why Bendis can spend an entire issue of DAREDEVIL on an absolute nobody we don't give a shit about but only one single panel on Xavier and the X-Men getting past problems that have plagued the team for years is just being silly. Anybody questioning why Wolverine gets to suggest that Wanda should be put down despite the hundreds of deaths (including a fellow X-Man) he's responsible for this year is just being silly. Anybody wondering how Copiel had the time for this 8-part crossover when he still hasn't finished the behind-schedule 5-part SECRET WAR crossover with Bendis that's stretched over more than a year is just being silly. And, most importantly, anybody suggesting a guy I can only assume was Luke Cage looks good in a doo rag of the Japanese flag is just being silly. This series still has the same potential I always thought it did: to be less bad than the recent return of the "Age Of Apocalypse."
Potentially.
PROF: Oh, and one more thing....CRAP! Do any of you @$$HOLES realize we all just paid $2.99 + tax for an entire comic that was like a PARODY of a Bendis comic? Absolutely nothing nothing nothing happened except a bunch of garishly garbed muscle morons walking, standing around, and talking, emoting, talking, emoting. Good Jeebuz Cripes!
HUMPH: No matter what this is going to leave a bitter taste in someone's mouth. Even if this mini turns out good, which I think it'll be above average judging from this issue, you've got all the "ramifications" throughout the tie-ins/crossovers/whatever the hell is going on and I can feel that most of them were forced. This thing came out of a story arc that has already displeased so many, and it's just going to all come to a head soon. I really for one would like to know how far this all got blown out of proportion by Marvel in an attempt to match INFINITE CRISIS. Was this mini supposed to be the only follow up? Did they have this whole thing planned from the beginning? I'm thinking it all lies somewhere in the middle and in the end it's gonna be a bit of a FUBAR.
BUG: The thing that honks me off is that it is a direct knockoff of IDENTITY CRISIS, where the heroes are forced to make a decision that goes against their very nature. Namely, they know the Scarlet Witch is out of control and debate and debate and debate about whether or not to put her down for good. The difference is that in IDENTITY CRISIS, there was an inner conflict (the moral dilemma about mind-wiping criminals) and an outer conflict (the hunt for Sue Dibny's killer). Meltzer interweaved the action and the moral conflict to make you feel like you got both in every issue of that series. Bendis isn't able to do that. It's all inner conflicted inaction as the singularly minded heroes hem and haw about what to do for pages and finally we end with a cliffhanger that leaves you going "meh."
PROF: ID CRISIS had a writer who, as much as I'm loathe to admit it, was able to give the story a very wordy narration and still make that first issue a stand-out issue; strong characterization, foreshadowing, and interesting things actually happened. HOUSE OF M was also incredibly wordy but had no story to speak of. It was all setup, setup, and more setup. I call it self-indulgent crap. And, nothing interesting happened unless you call seeing Peter Parker waking up in the "new" present married to either Gwen Stacy or Liz Allen something interesting. I call it amateurish nonsense.
BUG: I don't mind the copycatting though. Marvel's been doing that for years from their cheap IDENTITY CRISIS sham IDENTITY DISK to the formation of the ICON and MAX lines to compete with VERTIGO to this. It's just that, while DC does it first and better, Marvel does it loudest and brags the most.
HUMPH: That seems to be the nature of Marvel comics these days anyway, that of going full bore action one issue, and then talking heads the next. And it's not necessarily a bad thing, you'll never see me berate dialogue in a comic, but outside of Brubaker's Cap run right now, and PAD on Hulk it seems finding a balance between action and dialogue within a single issue is becoming a lost art for the company.
JQ: Dan Slott's work. Sean McKeever's work. Zeb Wells's work. Whedon on ASTONISHING X-MEN. Love him or hate him, JMS on Amazing Spider-Man. Etc.
BUG: Yeah, there are quite a few writers out there that ARE doing things right at Marvel, but apart from Whedon and JMS, they aren't getting the work or the praise for doing it that way. They're on smaller titles like SHE-HULK, GLA, MARY JANE, and offbeat SPIDER-MAN minis. If there's a house style at the House of Ideas, it sure isn't these guys. These guys are the exceptions to the rule.
JQ: But action and dialogue are *not* mutually exclusive elements anyway. That's a fallacy that burns my biscuits, just like the action & characterization split. Oh, this is a talking issue. This is a punching issue. It's a poor writer that needs to compartmentalize in such a way, and readers and critics need to recognize it. There is no "balance" between the two elements. They are all essential to each other. And action without characterization, dialogue without action are hollow, worthless exercises.
HUMPH: Well, balance was probably a bad choice of words on my part. I should have said integration... it’s what I really meant anyway. What I'm saying is that now we're mostly seeing stuff like this book and the Ultimates where you're getting an issue that's almost a twenty minute read because of all the talking heads, and then the next issue is a four minute breeze thru because it was all smashing and little or no context.
JQ: I tend to find the talking heads issues to be the quickest reads, as opposed to issues where stuff is actually going on that needs to be paid attention to. One of the things that I find characterizes Bendis and his contemporaries is that there's a lot of spelling everything out for us - every feeling, nuance, or urge gets a couple pages devoted to walking us through it. Even a mindless fight scene - which can be every bit as hollow and inane as twelve pages of table sitting and blah blah - at least seems to be aware that it's taking place in a visual medium. Four pages of Bendis chatter rarely amounts to more than a couple dozen lines of dialogue.
BUZZ: That's why movies like THE INCREDIBLES and SPIDER-MAN and cartoons like FAIRLY ODD PARENTS and JIMMY NEUTRON and DANNY PHANTOM do superheroes better than comics. Honestly, if most fans would pull back from comics for awhile then return, I think they'd be able to see clearly how dull, dead, unfun, and geezer-like most comic writing is these days.
BUG: I think we're going to get some flack for being geezers when we compare the good old days of Marvel comics to the ones of today, but it's simply true. In those days, the mix of action, characterization, and dialog were tops. You got everything that happened in this issue, maybe a battle or two, and probably a preview as to what to expect from the spin-offs. Back then, you never put down a book and felt "meh" about it. That feeling of "meh" is running rampant in comics these days, and this is the comic book reviewer’s worst enemy. We’re supposed to have an opinion about the comic we just read. When I put a comic down and don't know how a feel about it because there isn't really enough there to form an opinion, I get frustrated all to hell.
BUZZ: If you look at the comic book audience – young males – they're getting more sedentary and isolated. Like we're doing right now, sitting in front of a computer instead of actually out doing things. It's kind of sad that guys aren't even able to relate to action in their fantasies any more.
HUMPH: The main thing in this book that made the moral dilemma fall flat to me a bit is just how they kind of dismiss the alternatives. The sequence where Emma asks Xavier if he could help Wanda, and he replies with "If I could, I wouldn't be here having this conversation." That's all fine and dandy, but using two panels to sum up "Well, I've tried a bunch of shite and it's not working" makes the drama and tension surrounding their debate seem more forced. Though I do think that the following sequence of Quicksilver's desperate pleading with Magneto salvages it somewhat...
BUG: Let me say that I did like certain parts of this book. The part where Quicksilver goes off and screams at supersonic speeds and can't be heard was damn cool. I liked the interaction between Falcon, Wonder Man, and Ms. Marvel as they walked into Stark Towers. I even liked the talk between Xavier and Magneto as he wipes the blood from his nose. And I love it that Carol Danvers is going back to the Ms. Marvel name because Warbird is a horrible moniker.
It's these little tidbits that make this issue bearable. Bendis is good at this. He throws out these little details that make these characters more than just masks. I can appreciate that. The problem is that he does this in such an extreme way that the masks aren't even important anymore except that it is the only vibrant and kinetic part of this book. It's all character moments and dialog. You've got to think bigger in comics and Bendis has shown me nothing to prove that he can do that.
BUZZ: Right. This is supposed to be realism. But I always have to ask, if people want reality, why are they reading comics?
BUG: Bendis is a good writer of prose and dialog, but you have to be more than that in comics. You have to consider that this is a visual medium and you can't have a bunch of guys in gaudy costumes sitting around and talking all of the time. It looks ridiculous. My problem with Bendis is that he can't see past his word processor as to how this is going to look visually. It’s the same way in most of his books. The art and words are segregated so extremely.
BUZZ: Bendis is a good writer who needs to be edited. The main problem is that clearly no one at Marvel has the stones to say, "Tighten it up." Also, Bendis would be fine if he'd throw away McKee and pick up Marshall McCluhan.
PROF: Don't know who "McKee" is, but McCluhan can't write worth crap and NOBODY should pick him up.
SLEAZY: Robert McKee is the guy who wrote the book STORY about screenplay writing. Bendis uses it as a reference all the time. He's also the basis for the guy in the movie ADAPTATION who conducted the screenwriting seminar (which he does all the time to substantial profit). He's got a pretty strict breakdown of what format and style all screenplays should be written in.
The problem w/Bendis is he misses two crucial facts: first, comics aren't movies, and second, even if you wanted to write comics following McKee's formula, his formula would have to be applied to *each issue*, not to a six-part (or longer) story. Each issue should stand on its own, with an A and B plot, character arc, beginning, middle, and end. If he applied these rules to *each issue* of HOUSE OF M, instead of to an 8-part mini with literally 42 connected issues, it would have half a chance of working. Which it doesn't right now.
BUZZ: Marvel is big on their comics being like movies. But which movies are they looking at? Michael Bay's? Probably. They need to look at the work of James Cameron or George Miller or even Spielberg on INDIANA JONES to see how story and character can be progressed through action. Bug or Sleazy or somebody (I can't tell you guys apart) said that Bendis doesn't know that comics aren't movies. No, he doesn't know that comics aren't plays...on a limited stage, with live people in the cast occupying a venue with the audience. That makes for a big difference. At best, some of these comics come across as independent films with limited budgets and shooting time. Ridiculous when anything an artist can draw can be in a comic.
SLEAZY: It was me! It was me! You can tell us apart because I can spell. And I'm not bald.
I see what you're saying, though. Since it's 85% talk, it could be done with a few set changes in a theater no problem. Which, by the way, is just fine. I like talk--perhaps too much. I like plays. I like movies. I like plays that become movies. But dammit, save that shit for your own comic that isn't about superheroes doing amazing things that make you wish you could do something that cool. Publish it through Oni or Vertigo or Kitchen Sink, and I can totally get behind it. If you want to do some of that stuff to flesh out the four-color characters, by all means, do so — they need all the help and added depth they can get. It just shouldn't be at the expense of the only things that make them interesting.
HUMPH: To me it seems like a lack of focus. Sometimes I think the big writers these days are taking on way too much and somewhere quality falters. Here I think we're seeing Bendis having good ideas for character moments, especially the ones you mentioned, but then we got "Oh hell, I need to wrap this issue up because I have to get New Avengers in."
BUZZ: I agree to an extent. Part of the problem is that guys who are prolific by today's standards, like Bendis, write full scripts. Stan Lee never wrote a full script in his life. He wrote Marvel style and probably didn't know what the hell each comic would be about until the artist delivered the pencils. That's how he was able to write up to 35 comics a month.
BUG: I don't see Bendis as being overstretched as far as working on multiple titles. His stories are very singular in focus. Bendis' stories ARE overstretched. An idea to him is stretched out into a four to six issue arc, be it worthy of four to six issues or not.
BUZZ: Aw, c'mon. The issue had a beginning, middle and ending. Things happened. It moved. The Marvel heroes had to meet to decide to do something about Wanda. That was important.
PROF: It's only important because Marvel decided they wanted a huge honkin' crossover monster and Bendis thought "You know? I DO have to use the bathroom again. Might as well go crap on Wanda some more."
BUZZ: Granted, their meeting got repetitive and could have been trimmed. Similarly, Quicksilver's scene with Magneto, the best in the book, soon started repeating itself. Finally, the scene of wandering through Genosha ... also started going around in circles.
PROF: The main problem is that clearly no one at Marvel has the stones to say, "Bendis, this ain't the frickin' GILMORE GIRLS, it's superhero comics, get these characters DOING something!"
SLEAZY: I *wish* this stuff was as good as "Gilmore Girls".
MODERATOR: Okay, we've talked a lot about the writing, but what about the art? How'd this comic look?
VROOM: I've got to say, Bendis has a knack for working with the best damn artists around. Maleev, Bagley, Gaydos, Oeming... each of these guys is uniquely suited to the book Bendis is making with them. And Coipel is certainly an ideal artist for an action-packed superhero explosion featuring the X-Men and Avengers.
BUG: Now, if only that’s what we got with this issue.
PROF: Magneto looked like a husky, barefoot, sweat-pantsed ex-con Wal-Mart greeter. Not very imposing.
There were a lot of talking heads and few of them looked good to me. Hairstyles were particularly awful. It seems like this latest batch of new artists have a common problem, nobody knows how to draw hair so everybody looks like they have spikey crap flopping around their faces instead of hair. Somebody get these kids' heads out of their dang manga books and look at the real world sometimes to see how hair really looks on human beings.
Can't even tell if the guy's a good storyteller because nothing but people walking and talking happened. If they were going to make this a comic all about faces and body language, they should've hired Adam Hughes to do it.
The cover was awful washed out watercolor. If I hadn't felt like I needed to pick this comic up to be able to comment on, it would not have even garnered a "thumb-through" based on the cover.
Just then, another flaming bird flies in through the window with another note.
JQ: It’s another note from Dave.
HUMPH: That poor bird.
BUG: Has that guy ever heard of a cell phone?
DAVE FARABEE: Okay, Prof, I think you're overboard here. Olivier Coipel's a talented guy, best known for art on THE AVENGERS during runs by Geoff Johns and Chuck Austen and LEGION (just prior to the current reboot). I'd say his visuals fall somewhere between '70s/'80s-style superhero art and the qualities of those few Image artists who actually evolved (Jim Lee, J. Scott Campbell). It's a crisp look with detail and slight exaggeration that even call to mind Michael Golden's work (though it ain't there just yet). I can see the beef with the talking heads, but that I attribute to Bendis's layouts. Bendis might not be credited as such, but I've yet to read a comic from him that isn't laid out in his own very specific, very controlled style (dating back to GOLDFISH and JINX).
HUMPH: How the hell did he know what we were talking about?
SLEAZY: Dave’s powers of observation know no limits.
DAVE: On a few specifics: I thought Magneto looked fine. His beefiness was a little odd, but seemingly just another way to depict the strong physicality of the character - not so different from Cockrum drawing him built like a bodybuilder back in the day. As for him not looking imposing, I think that was part of the point. Like it or not, Magneto's supposed to be a broken man right now, not just because of the Scarlet Witch kookiness but because he's been hangin' with Xavier on Genosha, land of the ultimate mutant massacre.
Hairstyles "awful"? Not at all. Coipel's got similar quirks of depicting hair to, say, Walt Simonson, and a quick gander at the splash page of heroes showcases a wide variety of styles. Wasp's got her bob, Warbird's sporting the modern equivalent of her old "Farrah," Wonder Man's got the slicked-back look Byrne gave him...pretty distinct I think. Worst I see are touches of shorthand to his renderings of hair, but not so's I'm bothered. As for Adam Hughes, I actually find his glossy renderings of hair almost distracting - like every character just stepped out of a Clairol ad.
In general I was pretty happy with the art. 'Bout the only problem with it is that Coipel just didn't have much to work with, and okay, his expressions are a little bland and repetitive. All told, though, he's an artist I'd be happy to see on just about any book with lots of costumed heroes.
BUZZ: Coipel is good at buildings, cities, rubble and single dramatic shots.
PROF: Okay, I’ll admit the artist drew some darn good destroyed buildings.
BUZZ: For instance, the scene with Wanda in the bed, drawn from above, as Pietro approaches her is well done. (Unfortunately, that page is ruined because they are going for the concept of a camera MOVING in and PULLING back. No cameras here. This isn't a storyboard, which provides a blueprint for something that takes seconds. This is a page in a comic book which makes it a significant portion of the whole story and nothing that was revealed there needed a whole page).
PROF: I just think his unfortunate lackluster ability to draw the human figure and face made that scene stand out to me more like an amateur's attempt at drama. A lot of the shadowing and wrinkles looked more to me like the classic amateur's trick of overshadowing to cover up lapses in proper anatomical rendering.
BUZZ: What Coipel is terrible at is drawing people. They all look squatty and kind of fat and constipated. Everyone looks puffy, especially around the face. The close ups of Emma Frost make her look like the best looking real estate agent in the office who has gone soft from too many margaritas and too much sitting.
HUMPH: Good but not great, that's how I'd describe the interiors. The attention to detail in the backgrounds, especially the ruins of Genosha, is really quite amazing. But I'm in agreement with mostly everyone here when I say the way Coipel draws his superheroes is off. I think the females in all of this come out rather unscathed as far as their builds and proportions, though their facial features all looking way too alike when not in a close up panel. But they don't have that "bloated" look as Buzz put it for their bodies like the majority of the males do. Between that and chins of almost Bart Sears proportions they, for the majority, look rather silly. But to be honest, it seems that body type only shows up in the splash pages. Looking through the book again, if there's a page that has five or so panels on it, then the smaller drawing space seemed to have forced him back to drawing everyone "normally."
BUZZ: The best thing about the art is the color by Frank D'Armata. He really captures the mood here. It's too bad the mood is dour and pouty, but it does fit what's going on in the story.
MODERATOR: Okay, guys we’re running out of time. Any last words on HOUSE OF M?
PROF: I find it astounding how badly conceived this whole thing turned out to be. Especially coming off DC's recent ID CRISIS miniseries also dealing with a "crisis" of conscience among the bulk of the superheroes, it makes this series appear to be little more than a Marvel knock-off attempt at the same -- of course, minus the rape but including the former sane female character now utterly insane and dangerous. No way will I be reading the rest of this crossover. And any series that I already read that might find themselves crossing over with M will lose my $$$ for that month.
SLEAZY: It was exactly what I expected: a mediocre story buried under a years' worth of pointless hype.
I can't speak for the rest of you, but by golly I just can't wait to find out who the Claremontian ultra-powered young mutant girl you've never heard of that will change the face of the Marvel U. forever really isread the exciting (but totally rushed) one-issue finale in Spring of '07!”
Shit, I dunno. Maybe I'm being a jerk here. Maybe I'm judging the whole series too roughly based on the first issue. Then again, if there's nothing in the first issue to make me think otherwise, what does that say about the first issue?
BUZZ: I'd like to say that before Mr. Bendis says otherwise himself, we're not stating these opinions to get attention for ourselves. We don't get paid by the hit here. It is possible to have negative or (Gawd forbid) mixed impressions of a Bendis comic just because...well, you feel it deserves them.
Overall, it'd say that both the writing and the art are fine for what they are but the comic as a whole is hampered by so many of Bendis' self imposed limitations, which are fueled by the low expectations of his fans. We've come to expect too little. No one is pushing this guy. We are but he won't listen to us.
VROOM: I dunno. I really can't bring myself to recommend this book either way until I actually get to the actual story. I have Bendis' personal guarantee, so I'll definitely be buying up through issue #4. Maybe then I'll have an idea of what this book is really about.
BUG: I didn’t hate HOUSE OF M as much as most. Maybe it’s because it’s what I have come to expect from Bendis. There were enough interesting moments to get me through the issue without tearing it to shreds in frustration. But that doesn’t mean I’d recommend it. All of the stuff that irks me about Bendis’ writing is still there. The guy is utterly stuck in his ways. I have to commend him on his hard-headedness and dedication to tell one type of story over and over and over again. It’s all overwritten inaction and overlong extrapolation. He’s got moxy, I’ll give the guy that, but it still doesn’t make for a good comic book.
Yet another flaming bird flies through the window dropping another note from DAVE F. in the middle of the table.
HUMPH: Okay seriously, what’s with the flaming birds?
JQ: We all pitched in and bought him a bird hatchery at the last @$$hole Christmas party. All except Buzz…Buzz got him a blowtorch.
DAVE F.: There can be little doubt: HOUSE OF M is a flop as a first issue enticement. Had it been double-sized - the first half the talky-talk and the second half being some sort of actual story in Wanda World - well, then I probably wouldn't be so critical of the whole "prologue" feel. Bendis's stuff is always an easy read for me, even as I might be inwardly groaning at his inability to go up-tempo or produce anything concise. I liked watching his characters interact. I liked seeing Cap's philosophy counter Wolverine's. But as others have noted...it's not a story, not really. It feels self-aggrandizing, too, spinning off as it does from Bendis's "Avengers Disassembled" arc, increasingly acknowledged among fandom to be a mess. I swear, if I read that opening recap of "Disassembled" in one more friggin' book - you know, the one that begins "It was the worst day in Avengers history..." - I'm gonna have to assume that Bendis just has no respect for the writers who came before him. "Worst day in Avengers history"? I know it's just a tagline, but that's something for the readership to decide, godammit!
MODERATOR: Well, that just about sums it all up. You guys have rambled enough. Time to bring this Roundtable to a close. Now…uhm…anyone have a fire extinguisher? Someone’s got to put out all of these birds. It’s starting to stink worse than usual around here.
No actual birds were harmed in the making of this Roundtable – except for the ones Dave F. set on fire…and the ones Buzz shot…and that one that the Prof ate raw (but that twirpy little bastard had it coming).
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Jun 09, 2005 4:43:46 AM CDT
I liked the round table interview in Wizard a couple of months a
by kintar0
where Jeph Loeb gave Bendis shit for writing 30 pages of superheroes standing around, shooting the shit. Bendis got all indignant "You know that's not what I do, Jeph!" Fuck you, Bendis, that's exactly what you do. The whole House of M sounds retarded. Definitely unoriginal. I think the guy who draws HofM is dope, but I'm not buying a Bendis comic I can flip thru at the stand and see that's there's nothing going on.
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'Course I don't really like Loeb's writing much, but that doesn't mean he didn't nail Bendis in that interview. I found a transcript that has the relevant exchange (a response, I believe, to the question "What's the biggest flaw at DC and Marvel, right now?"). Even Bendis makes a few good points here, somewhere between generalized shots at DC and his desperate need to make superheroes "relatable"... *********** LOEB: I think there are too many books at both places. I understand why there are too many books, though. It's like why Proctor & Gamble have 12 different kinds of detergent--it's about shelf space. There is that odd chance that a little book that you never thought was going to do anything suddenly hits.
BENDIS: Yeah, you never know when you're going to get a SHE-HULK...
LOEB: Or an AUTHORITY. There's always something that becomes an unexpected hit.
BENDIS: My biggest problem with DC--and this comes off as a huge generalization--is that...
LOEB: This from a guy who's never worked at DC... [EDITOR'S NOTE: Bendis did a DC drive-by, writing a six-page back-up story in BATMAN CHRONICLES #21.]
BENDIS: I see Peter Parker as the most relatable comic book character there is. The "Spider-Man" movie is this generation's "Star Wars." I just see him as a totally relatable character, who happens to wear a costume.
LOEB: Uh-huh...
BENDIS: That started four years ago and comics never looked back. You know how the X-Men related to their audience. It's more important how Peter Parker's written than Spider-Man's written. People shouldn't even notice if he's in costume or not. The DC characters are costumes first and characters second. Again, this is a huge generalization and you can give me 50 examples to counter that, but to me there's so much room to make Bruce Wayne more relatable and a human being...
JOHNS: The thing is that some of DC's characters are incredibly iconic. Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are all iconic, but that doesn't mean there aren't characters under the costume. It just means their costumes are more prevalent than the characters. I agree that for the most part DC characters are created with the concept and the powers, where Marvel is a little bit more personality based when they were created. You know when someone is writing the Thing wrong. When the Thing doesn't talk like the Thing you know it. With some of the iconic characters--and this goes for Marvel characters, too--you can make them a certain way and fundamentally it still makes sense.
LOEB: [To Bendis] I completely agree with you and disagree with you. In that therein lies the defining differences betweent the two companies. It's the joke that I always say about your books. You want to do a Batman/Daredevil crossover, right? Well, the first thing that comes to my mind is that I don't want to read 48 pages of two guys sitting around in a cave.
BENDIS: [Sarcastic laughter] You know that's not what I do.
MILLAR: You can't do that with Batman, though. He can't just sit around...
BENDIS: Every time I hear someone say, "You can't do that," my sphincter tightens. And I go, "Maybe YOU couldn't..."
MILLAR: Just because something works for Spider-Man doesn't mean it'll work for Batman. The costume comes first with DC...you'd be Marvelizing the characters, honestly...if you did what you're talking about.
BENDIS: No, no, no...wait. I'm going to be a little harsh. I'm saying--I'm going to be a little harsh--the reason most DC comics never see the top 20 is because it's a marginalized audience; there's not much that most people can relate to. There's a fantasy that's fun to read, but when it comes to moments that are, "Oh man, yeah, I've been there" You don't get that from DC comics the way they're written for the most part. It's all about costume, not character. The balance is what makes a great comic book. It would be nice if I saw more of that at DC. And I think the books that do work like...just look how much humanity and emotion is going on in IDENTITY CRISIS. These are characters that I haven't looked at in 15 years, and I'm totally into it.
LOEB: You can look at them on a case-by-case basis. I think that's the joy of being in the DC Universe. But...it's like I've said before. I "marvel" at the success you've accomplished. The fact that you can do 22 pages of Daredevil with his mask off, talking to a wall--that's astonishing to me. But to me, the inner fanboy wants to see the cape.
BENDIS: I'm asking, why we can't see both? I know I've seen nothing in Bruce Wayne. I'm going to use Bruce Wayne because I think Clark Kent is an anomaly. He's almost not like a real character. He's like an accent Superman puts on.
MILLAR: But I think that's the problem. That's a very Marvel way of looking at it. Bruce Wayne died the night his parents were shot. He just has the facade of Bruce Wayne.
BENDIS: I want more...I'm talking about humanity and relatability. Do you cop to the fact that what may be holding back some of DC's titles in becoming more commercially successful in mainstream comic books is the fact that there isn't a lot that people can relate to? You have to agree that it would be better if some of these books were performing better. I think it would help both companies if some of DC's books were great commercially.
LOEB: If you two came over and wrote those books and brought some of that talent...I'm sorry, you can't tell me that if Andy Kubert were drawing AQUAMAN with Mark [Millar] writing it, it wouldn't be a top 10 book? It has nothing to do with the character. There is an inherent joy...
BENDIS: [LONG PAUSE] I just get frustrated that some of the DC books don't do better.
LOEB: I get very frustrated that there are Marvel books...and let's call a spade a spade...the one thing that Joe neglected--and he'll openly admit he neglected--was the Avengers group. He had to get the Spider-Man group in order. He had to get the X-Men titles in line. And now he's finally turned and said, "AVENGERS, THOR, CAPTAIN AMERICA, IRON MAN: These books need caretaking." And what does he do? He doesn't get a bunch of people in a room and say, "Well, this is how we should do these characters." He goes to his A-team. He goes to Bendis and [David] Finch.
BENDIS: Six months ago there was a meeting with Marvel where we said, "These books are f---ed up; what do we do to fix them? What's cool about Iron Man? Why do we publish IRON MAN? What makes him special? What's this book about at its core?" We've had those conversations. Then we go to Warren [Ellis] and said, "Okay Warren, do you want to do a book about a guy and his toy?" And he's like, "F--- yeah."
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Weren't we promised that like a week and a half ago? I'm hankerin' to read that.
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First off, were they not first? I think it's an honorary thing, and out of all the years I've been here I've only been first once, the day Sith came out. I don't even remember what the topic was, because that golden sweet instant in time when I knew that I was first I was overwhealmed with the fact that I now would be immortalized in the halls of Aint it Cool Though out of spite I resisted the temptation to write "first" a voice spoke to me and to my surprise it was not an evil voice, but a soft and gentile voice saying "You better write something short before someone else writes first and beats you." At that moment there was no better word than "first" and so I had my day and I'll never forget it. I guess I could have just typed "Bowie!" or "Trail-Mix", but I was first and that would be completely stupid to post anything other than that, I mean I'm not an idiot. Even though being awarded "First" and being called "Bowie" are equal honors. Cheers FirstMan#01, I got owned and that's just the way it works. -Az
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Jun 09, 2005 7:07:24 AM CDT
Bendis - I want to like him, or at least appreciate what he does
by silver_joo
I struggled with Avengers Disassembled; I'm not hugely up on Avengers history but you could tell that in those four issues Bendis gutted the group and ruined the dynamic. He won't get that back with New Avengers - perhaps the point is they don't want that back - but I hate that an iconic character like Cap is being undervalued bu Bendis and Marvel. In both Secret War and New Avengers it is like his life is nothing without him attempting to create groups of heroes. I think the key point in the Wizard round table is that Marvel is reacting against it's iconic characters that don't make as much money as Spiderman or Wolverine. DC is a consistently good product that can be angaging, entertaining and sometimes deep. Sure, DC icons can write you into a corner but they are iconic but Batman is such a great character that he wins through creatively. Marvel just seem to want to make money and hide behind what Bendis would term 'relateability'. Fuck that, these are comics and we want to lose ourselves for a couple of hours every week in fantasy. Youn Avengers has been such a pleasant surprise because something happens in each issue; the cahracters are well drawn and fun; it has an appreciation of Marvel history. to be honest, Bendis should take a long look at what Heinberg is doing with that title - they way he has forged something coherent and fun out of the tangled up mess Bendis has left of Avenger's history.
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trade came out last wednesday. If that isn't one of the best comics of all time...
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if Marvel sells more. If you want to read amazing stories about characters who have ALWAYS been handled with respect, you read DC. If you want flashy crap and Ultimate insults to classic characters, then you read Marvel. To me, Marvel's all about catching the kids, and DC's all about making 'readers' happy.
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Jun 09, 2005 8:24:44 AM CDT
The "Wizard" roundtable transcript was a lot more interesting th
by rev_skarekroe
Honestly, spending a ridiculous amount of time talking about a comic where people spending a ridiculous amount of time talking is very postmodern, but that doesn't make it a worthwhile read. Did no other comics come out last week?
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it was fucking awesome. One of the best mini series in years. I can't think of any comic I've enjoyed more recently.
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would take about how at DC its the cape first and the character second when he's done the same thing with Captain America in Secret War and New Avengers. I think Brubaker on Captain America has done a much better job of giving us the Steve Rogers under the mask. I am a fan of Brubaker's work on Catwoman and Sleeper and an genuinely surprised how his gritty story telling makes Captain America such a scary and thrilling read.//But back to Bendis. I've been reading Powers from the start and love his run on Daredevil. I understand how he can defend Avengers Disassembled as a good story that he wanted to tell. But it fails on so many levels, the biggest being coherent characterization and motiviation. And it made no sense against what we knew about Wanda before hand. The House of M seems to be going in the same vain. As was pointed out, Hank McCoy does have a vial of potion that erases mutant powers. There is also the option of keeping Wanda trapped in her fantasy world where she does have childred. Surely Xavier, Dr. Strange and others could pull this off. And if they can't, let them explain why they can't - which Bendis didn't do in his story. Even if it is a prologue, it shouldn't step around the obvious questions a reader would have.
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...that at the Cup o' Joe panel at Wizard World Philly Joe Q said specifically that he didn't give a crap what you guys thought. I'm just sayin.
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In House of M you've got Charles Xavier having a conversation with Magneto like they're old school chums. Magneto recently killed Jean Gray (again) and wiped out half the population of New York. Prof X is no slouch either having destroyed New York himself when he was Onslaught and who, through his psychic twin is actually the guy who DESTROYED Genosha. Back in the day, you would have a story where the X-Men would rescue kids from a burning orphnage and then get pelted with bricks from an angry mob. Those were the days when "mutant predudice" meant something. Today, Mutants are the masters of the world are humans are just cannon fodder to show what badasses they are. How is anyone supposed to relate to this super-elite class of spoiled superbabies and their elastic moral principles?
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Why are these people nit-picking the shit out of this comic? IT'S A FREAKIN' COMIC.
People in the comic industry aren't working on the cure for cancer, they make monthly entertainment.
You pick up the comic, flip through it. Like it? Buy it? Don't? Put it back and shut your hole. Geez!
I don't watch an episode of Friends, a show I've never actually seen, and then bitch about it later. It's a comic, guys. No need for a half-hour sitdown discussion.
And as for Coipel's supposed ineptness with drawing the human figure. This isn't 'Michaelangelo monthly' so I don't see why every artist has to draw characters of perfect anatomical structure. Where's the artistic individuality in that? Coipel's work is solid, period.
I think it's pretty silly that the only reason these guys who nitpicked the book have a job is because the people/books they get paid to nitpick exist at all. So if the comics weren't there, these guys would probably be sitting in an abandoned apartment in Hell's Kitchen steeped in a week long circlejerk marathon because they've got no other talents. What a lousy, vampiric existence for these clowns. -
Jun 09, 2005 9:50:19 AM CDT
House of M was a better comic than this was a deconstruction of
by sideshowbob
You make some good points but you've been making these same old points about Bendis for years. Why give a whole column to a book that was only OK? Anyway, since thsi is "re-hash old points" week, here are a few of mine: *** While I love some of BMB's work, can anyone give me evidence that he's evolved at all, or adapts his style to different material? Just like the hot artists in the "artists/Image age" in the 90s, the hot non-Morisson writers of the "writer's age" of the 00's simply refuse to evolve or adapt, and as a result most of them have gotten tired & predictable. *** I've said it before and I'll say it again, if Marvel ever realizes that Dan Slott needs to be their go-to guy, then watch that company start to soar again. *** I've said this before, too, but I think in 10 years a lot of people who are complaining about BMB/Maleev's DD will be pretending they liked it all along. I think this run will be remembered VERY favorably, but we'll have to wait and see.
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Jun 09, 2005 9:56:04 AM CDT
" It's kind of hard to really pass a qualified judgment on a
by fantomex
I've noticed this sad trend on review sites, and this seems to suffer from it the worst. I know its trendy to review the how new #1 book then never go back to it, but those kind of reviews are useless to your average comic book reader, and probably even to your average comic book geek that reads reviwes on the internet. What no one seemed to touch on was this was an issue for people who DIDN'T read avengers disassembled, who don't read wizard every month, and most especially, for people who don't spend a lot of time reading websites about comics. The pacing complaints are fair (for once), but this issue really wasn't for you, so don't be shocked when no one listens to your complaints. I'm not saying you have to give it 4 issues to get good, Bendis can, and should, make something happen with #2. But people who say "OH GOD THIS WAS SO BAD I'M NOT READING THE REST OF IT OR ANYTHING THAT TIES IN TO IT" just sound silly.
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Well if Joe Q doesn't care what we think, then he's a fucking fool, because yes more people than us internet posters read Marvel comics, but we still count as fans dammit.
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'nuff said
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To the poster above: Apparently no Magneto is not a mass murderer who went ape on NYC because if that was in continuity then he would be SANS HEAD thanks to Wolverine. BUT they kept the part about Jean Grey being dead! WTF. And BTW, why in the world would Marvel plan this whole huge summer crossover, 50 issue thing around the fucking lame scarlet witch thing?? NOBODY LIKED THAT. Yes it sold well but it will litter 25cent bins in comic shops for ages, just like Britney Spears cds.
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An imposter Magneto, disguised as an imposter Xorn. You see, Chris Claremeont wants Magneto to be a hero, so to make him happy they've decided to invalidate everything that happened during Morrison's run. Yeah, I know. That's why I'm ignoring everything X-related after Morrison's New X-Men (except Whedon's Astonishing).
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oh, okay it was an IMPOSTER Magneto. That clears things up... *snicker* And for the record, I do enjoy DareDevil a lot. I just pretend it's like an elseworlds/offshoot miniseries or something, and not DAREDEVIL! you know?
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Jun 09, 2005 10:25:18 AM CDT
Joe Doesn't Care What We Think? That Really Gets To Me!
by buzz maverik
Right here. Right in the cigarettes!
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Jun 09, 2005 10:32:05 AM CDT
Variety says that We3 is in the process of being signed as a mov
by the heathen
Haven't read it yet, but I hear nothing but good things. But I didn't like Morrison's whole Magneto, Xorn, Jean Grey, New York massacre thing. Just goes to show you how it confused at least two people on this talkback and a lot more readers in general. HoM #1 was a standard Bendis issue. What can you say? It was build up of course, but what I don't get is the people who don't like his "style" continuosly pick up his books, if for no other reason just to say how it sucks in their opinon. I've seen The Gift geet praise on this site but after 10 issues we really don't know what the hell is going on besides there is an ancient one who gives gifts to a person each issue. But I guess that's okay because something blows up, or someone gets into a fight. Talk about build up! And The Gift is only out every two months! I'll stick around for the rest of HoM. Hope it doesn't end with an alternatte reality for everyone in the Marvel Universe.
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Walking Dead kicked major ass last week btw. Damn Rick, that was stone cold. Tyreese and Rick are imo the best duo in comics right now.
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also nice to have agent 355 from Y guest star.
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Jun 09, 2005 10:50:59 AM CDT
Why are these people nit-picking the shit out of this comic? IT&
by cookylamoo
So then, you come here for the waters. But Casablanca is in the desert.
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Down to the hair and everything. Did I understand that Rick was going to lock just her in a cell at night or lock everyone up for safety? Despite her looking like 355, she had a great intro. I hope Kirkman doesn't take Rick out any time soon, because I find it interesting how much he's changed so far. Kirkman didn't bullshit on that concept of going through everything with this guy and seeing how it affects everyone. Great book.
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Jun 09, 2005 12:29:43 PM CDT
If you're complaining that super-hero comics should be more
by dukeofspiders
...then it's way past the time when you should have stopped reading super hero comics and moved on to something else.
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can't explain right know, but if one followed Morrison's complete run, maybe he would see my point.
The tone changes and the old Marvel cliches re-appear - ex. Xorn is cancelled as an original character, Magneto gloriously killed in the first issues re-appears for no *good* reason, just to provide a reason for the series to end with some meaning -while it's clear that Morrison wanted to do further issues. -
Some of his conversational stuff can be interesting, but he is horrible at any kind of action or buildup and suspense. His characters also lack distinct personalities and all tend to "talk" the same. I expect something to differentiate the comics medium from 99% of the tedious drama shows out there.
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Goddammit women need their beef cake too. Besides it's not like anyone reads comics for realism.
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Jun 09, 2005 1:54:19 PM CDT
SLEAZY: It was exactly what I expected: a mediocre story buried
by homer sexual
That is so accurate! House of M wasn't bad (Disassembled, now THAT was bad!)but it wasn't that great either. I also believe that the only way to approach any Bendis story is as an alternate-universe kind of thing, and wait for the trade. But it is against the nature of many long time comic geeks to wait for the trade, so we buy it, it's ok. It's not that good, though. Over-hyped events almost never are. And, yes, the women all have chipmunk cheeks.
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...could not give a rat's ass about people's opinion of Bendis. At the SECOND "Cup of Joe" session where NO ONLINE REPORTER WAS, because they all attended the FIRST one, I asked "How do you justify a series like 'Ultimate Nightmare' that consists of taking 2 issues to open a door?" He essentially summed it up by "people bought it", and I asked if maybe he should give Bendis a better editor, but I was really only allowed to ask one question at a time, so he ignored it. Bendis is only good writing Powers, because it's not as paced-for-trade, even though it is.
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...where exactly is this apartment? I live in California, so is there a West Coast equivalent? You got us right on our talents...when it comes to circlejerkin', well, stand back Buenos Aires!
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I hate it when people do that
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Whether it was Magneto or a Magneto impostor I had to laugh when Cyclops worried that human-mutant relations will reach an all time low. If everybody in the Marvel U hasn't gotten out their pitchforks and torches by now, nothing can piss them off. As for the Avengers, if it wasn't for Nick Fury, none of them would know when to shit.
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Man! An all-out HATE-FEST for "House of M". I know some of the career He-Man Bendis-haters would get their licks in....but the pile-on was unexpected.______While I was no fan of "Avengers Disassembled", I have to say that "House of M" was an interesting take-off from that lame-o ending Bendis originally tacked onto "Disassembled". If anything, "M" is simply a continuation of that storyline, once the realization was made that Marvel really didn't have anything else to put up against DC's Countdown/Infinite Crisis juggernaut. Sure, it's (yet another) addition to the Marvel Alternate-Reality Fetish Gallery (in the wake of "X-Men: Apocalypse" and "Heroes Reborn")....but it got some interesting food for thought, I must say. From my perspective, "House of M" pretty much gives the lie to the notion that mutants are not a threat to humankind because...well...they ARE! A *big* threat....a threat that raises some very uncomfortable questions that upset the Marvel-Mutant status quo. I probably won't tag along for the altered-reality stuff (been there, done that)....but, on its own, "M" #1 wasn't half as bad as you guys made it out to be.
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yeah, i agree that bendis is kinda missing the mark on the whole human-mutant relations thing. as have most writers recently enough. 'cept for joss whedon who , in my opinion, seems to be getting the 'protecting a world that hates and fears us' thing down pretty well in astonishing. very old school claremont.
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"Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up..." -
For not ignoring me. :-) Favor returned.
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Anticipation, curiousity... House of M #1 rocked as the introduction to something BIG... it worked for me. Your review, on the other hand, left a lot to be desired. Let me paraphrase...
"Wah... not enough punching. It's only a story if there's punching... why aren't anyone punching each other... Wah..." -
I agree with these fellers, it's a cryin' shame what Bendis has done to my favorite team. I wish we had Wanda and the Vision back together and makin' test tube babies. I got me a poll going on over here at this b-log, so I'd appreciate if you fellers would let me know which Scarlet Witch you prefer!
http://www.photontorpedoes.com/archives/2005/06/poll_which_scar.php -
Who made the rules you insist Bendis is not following? All the comments about plotting sound like a bunch of amateurs who read Denny O'Neil's book on Comic Book writing for DC and who now believe every comic book should be written following the formula provided. What's the problem with doing things differently?
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He made it quite clear--and has for years now--that sales and profit come before (or instead of) quality storytelling or respect for characters. The truth is, he's a "throw a buncha shit on the wall and see what sticks" kinda guy. Anybody who wants proof need look no further than the brutally stupid, utterly pointless revamp of the Punisher as a supernatural warrior with ghostly guns under his Marvel Knights imprint. He's not sitting there saying "these are among the greates characters ever, and we plan to tell mind-blowing stories rooted in history and integrity." He's sitting there saying "who cares what the whiners who actually care about the form think? We made *money* off that variant cover! Underprinting is good! Somebody get me another Wolverine mini, stat!" If JQ were more interested in turning out high-quality work and supporting it when it needed a little time to build an audience, it would be different. That's not the case. It's all about the bottom line, which is why there are over 20 mutant titles a month and a crapload of Spider-books while new concepts die on the vine in a year or less. You can sit there and say "give the people what they want" all you like, but all it does is make you a marketing hack who follows trends instead of nurturing something truly new and worthy of notice. Marvel Knights (where JQ broke into Marvel)? Dead. MAX? Dead. Epic? Stillborn. ICON? An exclusive club for JQ's pals, at least thus far. Throw a bunch of shit against the wall (Tsunami) and see what sticks: so far, only RUNAWAYS and MYSTIQUE (now cancelled). The focus on a handful of writers and characters to the detriment of all others based on sales numbers and not on quality or potential is an extremely shortsighted approach to things, and while it may keep the money rolling in for now it won't last. JQ doesn't have to care what we think, as long as the money keeps rolling in. It's a lousy way to approach things, though, considering the way the industry is hemorraghing readers. What he should care about are things like quality, integrity and legacy. AVENGERS DISASSEMBLED and HOUSE OF M don't have any of those things. Right now, neither does Marvel's leadership, and that's a shame.
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The problem with any kind of story like this is its designed to be meaningless. The Avengers and X-Men get together to decide what to do with Scarlet Witch (the "great moral dillema" might have been interesting 20 years ago). But you know it doesn't matter because this is a hyped up miniseries and that means a bunch of other stuff has to happen, making the entire scene worthless. That goes double for the what-if storys. What if Spiderman married Gwen Stacy? What if anyone cared? One of the reviewers touched on something which was expanded on in the talkback. Complete and utter lack of continuity with current books. Be it Wolverine Enemy of the State of Captain America's mood on killing this month, the Marvel U is nothing more then a very, very loosely connected group of books. Isn't House of M supposed to radically change that? Or at the very least reboot the last 18 months of utter crap? As bad as this issue was for people who read ocmics/comic websites 3 hours a day, Marvel deserves praise for a well written "prologe" issue instead of trying to force readers to buy three thousand books inbetween "Identity Crisis" and "Infinite Crisis". Not that your feelings on the comic wasn't interesting, I find it very interesting, but it wasn't a *review*. An actual comic reviewer would have been able to put themselves in the shoes of the "average" reader and see the issue for what it was. The whole lot of you seemed to miss that point.
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I mean, we *are* "average readers". We just talk about what we've read, that's all. If the average reader doesn't think it's weird that Wolverine (who just killed hundreds of people, including Northstar who was his teammate on more than one team) is the one calling for Wanda's execution, I don't know what to say. I think it's odd that Millar and Bendis have worked together so much, and yet Bendis just completely ignored Millar's run on WOLVIE. I find it odd that a butcher like Logan said he hoped his teammates would put him down like a dog if he ever presented a major risk, because he *is* a major risk. I think it's silly that the New Avengers aren't even formed yet but are already acting like they have any say in *anything*. Instead of fucking about with a comatose Wanda, shouldn't they maybe be tracking down the hundreds of meta convicts who escaped on their watch? Is there a reason we're supposed to believe Wanda is more powerful than Charles and Dr. Strange combined? Why should I suddenly accept that Xavier and the rest of the gan are getting along just because the Doc says "something important came up"? This is just bad, bad writing. Not to mention lots of wasted pagespace for splash page after splash page and slow cinematic crawls which are all scripted in. What I, as a regular reader, am looking at is an incredibly dull, mediocre start to a huge non-invent that spins out of the worst "major" miniseries of the last year or two. What about this issue would make a "regular reader"--or somebody who's a new Marvel reader--stay tuned? Did I miss something here that would grab a new reader by the throat and say "oh man, I can't wait"?
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Joe Q doesn't give a shit about what the @$$holes think. I think the more important question is, "Who gives a shit about what Quesada thinks?" I know I don't. He's proven himself to be a relentless hype-machine who dismisses criticism directed at Marvel with explanations not even slightly grounded in reality. "House of M" was okay, I guess, but it seems like an extended "What If...?" if you ask me.
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Buy a few thousand shares of stock. Seriously, between people who have invested thousands--even millions--into your company, and a few dozen people complaining about your biggest selling titles on the internet, who are YOU going to listen to???
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Pick any successful corporation out there: Proctor and Gamble, Kraft, Wal-Mart, whatever. Watch what happends when a customer writes a letter to the corporate HQ bitching about a particular product. The CEO orders someone to write an apology and send a free sample or something. Why? Because those corporations, in an effort to please the stockholders, understand the need to at least try not to piss off the longtime customers. JQ doesn't understand that. And, in the end, like pretty much every Marvel EIC since Stan Lee, that's why the stockholders WILL eventually show him the door.
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Anyway, wanna bet nearly all the letters & emails Marvel gets for "M" are positive?
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I got about half way through reading this piece of shit until i...i don't have the strength to wade through all this fanboy bitching. First of all i've noticed it's become a bit fashionable to dislike what Bendis does, so yeah, maybe he's doing something wrong, but i remember everyone saying how good Daredevil used to be and how every Powers issue was killer and now all of a sudden people talk about him like he never wrote a single good line in his life. People in comics tend to forget the good to favour the bad. "Dissassembled sucked and Powers and Daredevil are prime examples of the decompression trend that dominates the market today" is what they might say...and obviously they'll forget that they raved about those books a while back and that they're mostly prime examples of WHY it's a preffered method in modern comics storytelling. Brian Vahghan said in an interview right here that just because a story can be told in a single issue that it doesn't mean it should. God, how i agree! It's like telling Kubrick "Hey, 2001's good and all but don't you think it'd be best if you...you know--made it into a 30 minute tv special or something? Because sure, monkeys are great, but no one needs 20 minutes of them! And space ballet? Give us a break here, this thing needs to move at friggin' lightspeed if it's gonna go somewhere dude.". Problem with AMERICAN comics today is that the industry has indulged fanboys so hard with the whole superhero thing that there's no looking past superman's tightly wrapped package. So anyone defies their stupid little superhero standards and they go berserk and start saying "This isn't film!" Yeah, Bendis knows it, you fuckers interviewed him a while back and he screamed it at you. I haven't read a single Bendis comic that i felt gapped in it's treatment of images + words, like these condom suckers claim they do. A lot of thought goes into them visually. But what they want...no what they NEED is 30 fights plus character development plus pacing, plus plot, plus handjobs without papercuts just because long ago someone pulled it off. Long ago. So if they already pulled it off why should Bendis try it again? Listen, i hate superheros. The only ones i likes were Morrison's X-Men and he left that behind a while back. But i didn't go into a self pitying little rage because he left and Chuck Austen started negating everything he did on the book, because they're imaginary characters and i couldn't give a bigger shit! What i like is comics as an art form. One of the assholes above says stuff needs to happen in a comic. No it doesn't! I'd much rather read an issue of heroes sitting down and actually discussing what they'd do rather than coming up with solutions while they fight a horde of minions. At least it's something i haven't seen, even tho these pussies believe it's not the way it should be. Still i'm not picking it up because it's about superheros. Maybe if they pulled a She Hulk and reaped the potential of an imaginary universe and had the heroes think their way around a distorted reality so they can capture the Witch and transport her to a different reality so she stops fucking this one up...then maybe i'd pick it up. And then that's another story altogether because the people in the other reality get pissed at us because we sent them a witch with the power to destroy them...so they cross the portal or something and it's the war of the realities or something of the sort. Maybe i should write that one. Anyway my point is stop crying about every goddamn thing you stupid fucking fag-men! "Land of instant gratification", what a great line that is. I live in Colombia, we get no comics here, not even the "Crappy ones where nothing happens but talking heads for 22 pages"...so i WISH i could just go to a store and buy one for 3 dollars, which is next to nothing. Go fuck yourselves!
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anyone find the link to the wizard article yet? and will WE3 be a good flick?
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Jun 10, 2005 2:23:57 AM CDT
I Just Got Off The Phone With Quesada & Apparently He Doesn'
by buzz maverik
I told him the we don't care that he doesn't care that we don't care that he doesn't care. Then I pitched him a terrific mini-series SILVER SURFER: LOCALS RULE! It would take place in the Shi'ar Galaxy where the Surfer has come to ride the nine mystic death stars. The problem is that local Kahuna, the Gladiator, is claiming those cosmic waves for himself so he sicks his Boyz, the Starjammers, on the Surfer. No punk, the Surfer holds his own. I won't reveal the surprise ending in which the Surfer scores with Gladiator's chick (Lilandra) and his own Boyz --Firelord, Gabriel Airwalker, the Destroyer, Terrax and Chick Nova -- aka the Hearlds O' Galactus show up to kick some Starjammer ass. The Surfer even beats Gladiator in a big surf competition judged by the Living Tribunal! It all wraps up with a house party featuring a live performance by that happening band the Elders O' The Universe. Joe said I had to take out all the surfing and fighting and scoring and I'd have a winner.
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Jun 10, 2005 2:33:34 AM CDT
Please Excuse My Spelling Errors & Grammatical Faux Pas. You Se
by buzz maverik
Like to see you do this good if you'd spent the last two days eating peyote buttons like they were bon bons.
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"If you want to read amazing stories about characters who have ALWAYS been handled with respect, you read DC." AMEN! I really loved the way they handled the rape of their female characters in ID Crisis because it was so damn respectful! And then there's Blue Beetle getting shot through the head with what i like to call a respectful handling bullet of brain splashing greatness. :D
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you're being sarcastic. Maybe I should have said MAJOR characters. But, nobody heard me crying when they killed my favorite, Ollie Queen, off. And, Ollie was even hideously blown up in an airplane or something. Really, I couldn't whine because there was no Internet. But, I also knew that eventually he'd be back. And, the Black Canary was kidnapped, chained up and tortured when she was dating Ollie, now that I think about it. Even so, I probably would have started a letter-writing campaign and complained if he'd of been raped though.
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... died in a helicopter over Metropolis, I think. From a nuclear explosion or something. After he was raped with a bullet in his brain.
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I'm sure Didio would have the Silver Surfer ass-raped by Thanos, and wander around crying his eyes out the rest of the time. While all the women in his life are bound, beaten, gagged, burned, hung, raped, and tortured. And he'd suggest to include Howard the Duck, but make him into a serious character, and have him spend 60 pages depressed and wondering why nobody takes him seriously before he's shot in the head by Spider-Man, who is recovering from the mind-wipe he was given by the Avengers when he caught them lobotomizing the Rhino, as a way to explain why "The Rhino" has been a joke all the years, and to change the Universe.........forever!
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Jun 10, 2005 9:19:33 AM CDT
Whining (v): A passonate opinion you don't happen to agree w
by cookylamoo
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Just for interest, where the hell are the fantastic four? Think maybe they should have consulted with the smartest man on the planet, reed richards?
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Jun 10, 2005 10:41:54 AM CDT
Spoiler Alert! Has anyone else noticed a cetain error? You kno
by loodabagel
Seriously, people what the fuck is wrong woth all of you? Colossus and Shadowcat at least, died in Astonishing 10. Why the hell are we still seeing them. If they are alive they should be in a hospital in critical condition with gaping holes in their bellies, not gong to the Super hero happy hour. I don't like big crappy crossover events, but could we at least try to get a little sense of continuity back in comics? And what just pisses me off even more is New Avengers. Finch's cookie cutter art got old pretty fast. If you haven't noticed everyone looks the same out of costume. Everyone's beautiful. And why the hell did Wolverine not show up until issue 5? We've yet to see the sentry, but he's already appeared in House of M. And they-as well as the "mystery ninga" aka Daredevil, for the 2 people who haven't figured it out already, appeared on the cover of issue 1. It's hard to be interseting when everyone already knows what's going to happen. I'm just sick of all the bullshit on this site. Wizard is the crappiest magazine in the world. Rarely do I value their opinion. And those assholes Joe Quesada and Bendis need to get off their fat asses and start making good comics agian. Does anyone remember how cool Ultimate Spider Man used to be? And because of the 40 year old guys living with their parents, everything that happens here will just end up being totally contradicted and everyone ded will be ressurected before too long. You have no idea how fucking pissed off I am at Chris Claremont right now. Planet X was cool, damnit! And that asshole had to go and ruin it all with his piece of shit resurrection of Magneto. And don't give me all of that "It was just someone pretending to be Magneto" crap. X3 is going to suck. House of M is going to be pointless because everyone who dies will be brought back. X23 was only cool in her first appearance. MTV sucks. Wizard sucks. Paramount sucks for leaving Watchmen. All anyone cares about anymore is making their money. What a bunch of assholes.
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"He made it quite clear--and has for years now--that sales and profit come before (or instead of) quality storytelling or respect for characters." No arguing with that, but since comics are a business, they must focus on the bottom line. If we, the comic buying public, supported other books and didn't mindlessly buy every stupid "event," such as--say--House of M--they wouldn't keep making more of it. These are basic economics, and while I don't like the result, I can't blame Marvel for making more of what sells. I can only blame the buyers. This is similar to the movie situation, where we blame the studios for putting out crap but keep going to watch said crap. Now that movie tickets are steadily declining, maybe we'll see some better movies. Same thing with comics.
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This billion dollar movie has plot and dialogue that the worst comic hack writer would laugh at. And have you watched network TV lately? Are there any stories on CSI or Law and Order that actually make sense? Is Deadwood any less decompressed than a Bendis comic? Let's face it. How much money you make is the ONLY artistic criteria left in America. Box office receipts are treated as NEWS.
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This is my third post in this thread, and all in response to comments by sleazy g. I agree with everything sleazy says. I can't imagine that House of M is bringing in new readers. It's not grabbing the regulars by the throat either. And the criticisms of the story (esp. Wolverine and New Avengers) are right on. So, apparently what it all boils down to is that we comic-shop regulars are the cause of our own problems, buying the exact same comics we blame for the "downfall of comics." And, yes, I am part of the problem. Although it is the wrong thing to do, and I don't think I'll like it, I will buy House of M #2.
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...because Bendis comics, Bendis boarders and the whole "you want 30 pages of fights" crap reminds me of the STAR WARS prequels. The original trilogy was overseen by a man starting in his early 30s. It featured chases through asteroids fields, giant tanks on legs stomping across the snow, glorious space ship dogfights, duels on exotic locales, dazzling explosions, weird vehicles, aliens, etc. The prequels, overseen by a man in his 60s, has elements of those things but it has an awful lot of scenes in a senate chamber where people talk about tariffs and votes of no contest, etc. My question is: which do you like better? Which is more vital, more alive, more fun? When the hell did our pop culture -- and as much as many of you hate to admit it, our genre culture -- become so damned talky? In 1977, George Lucas would have summed up the first hour of EPISODE 1 with one line in the opening crawl, something like, "Protected by two Jedi Knights, Queen Amidala flees the embattled planet of Naboo..." What can you get from a talky comic book that you can't get in better form from a novel or play or TV show or independent film? What did Lucas do with the senate intrigue that wasn't done better by Frank Capra in MR. SMITH GOES TO WASHINGTON ? Who here likes the movie HOWARD'S END better than THE ROAD WARRIOR? Who believes that HOWARD'S END really has superior storytelling and characterization? THE ROAD WARRIOR told me more in the opening chase about its' main character than most movies are able to communicate in 3 hours of talk and angst. This is genre stuff so most of us are guys. And we like talk, talk, talk, talk? I don't think so. I personally like characters who take quick, decisive action. One of the great appeals of the comic book superhero is that they don't have to be bogged down in bullshit to solve their problems like most of us do in real life. I quote Han Solo: "I don't have time to discuss this in committee." Well, Han, 20 years later, your creator will make up a bunch of new characters who discuss everything in committee. And Wanda, your friends will talk for pages about killing you when no one says, "Hey, let's go attack anyone of a number of supervillains and swipe one of those inhibitor collars they all have laying around. We put one on Wanda and her powers are gone just like ours always are until the one thing the villain didn't bargain on shows up!"
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The book had a lot of problems (see previous post about continuity etc). I'm just saying you can't fault the book for being a prelude. Quite the opposite, Marvel deserves praise for not trying to tie this into some shitty book (see last months Excalibur, or pretty much every DC comic since Identity Crisis). You say "nothing happens" but what you mean is "nothing happens other than the stuff we already say in avengers disassembled/etc". A lot happened for someone new the story. It may not be good, and a new read might be equally likely to drop the book, but it won't be because of "trade pacing" or "decompression"
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I love you, man.
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I actually haven't even read House of M yet. I probably never will. I just wanted to rant about something. I'm not gonna do it again today. Not all Bendis is bad, by the way. The man's been officially jerking around on 5 or 6 comics for the last few months, but I've got a feeling things are gonna start looking up soon. In the mean time here are some comics people should be reading INSTEAD of lousy crossover events extrordinaire.
JLA Classified-I hadn't picked up Justice League once until last month. The current "I Can't believe it's not the Justice League" is awsome. I cried at the end of the last one and I never even knew about the ice girl.
The Walking Dead-Where I live, the only place to get this is in a trade, and my brain's ready to explode waiting for volume 3. All the praise on this comic is not undeserved. Check it out, brothers. You won't be dissapointed.
Ultimate X-Men I haven't checked out the Lady Deathstrike story yet, and I can't say that I really love Stuart Immomen's art, but the longshot story (while unoriginal) was a breath of fresh air for me. Seeing how I can't get Ultimates and Ultimate Spider Man took a nose dive after the Carnage story, I was longing for some Ultimate adventures with the right mix of plot elements. Brian K Vaughn's created a bunch of characters over the course of his run, and I must say, I am stoked. And while we're at it, let's giveBendis praise for ultimate Dazzler, maybe THE coolest person to inhabit the ultimate universe recently.
Oh crap. I just realized what happens in House of M. They fight the ultimate universe. hmm.
Anyway...
Ex Machina-haven't bought it, but I read some of the trade when I was in Missoula. Pretty freakin cool. Check it out, or at least send me a copy.
Ghost World-You know, the graphic novel by Daniel Clowes. Not the movie, but go watch that too. It's beautiful. He's got a new book out now. I can't remember what it's called but there's a kidnapping involved. Check it out.
While you're at it, read Art Spiegelman's "In the Shadow of no Towers" A very interesting read, to say the least.
And in closing I'm offically becoming the first person on this forum to put a quote at the bottom of his message. It's gonna change every time, man.
"God, I thought chipmunk face was never going to shut up."
"I know. I liked her so much better when she was an alcoholic crack addict"
That's from Ghost World, boys and girls. My pick of the week. At least it would be if I had my own webesite or something. -
I'm gonna tell you (Because, let's face it, you all desire my opinon) what i think House of M is: A Comic book. It costs about 3 bucks, it's written by a writer, it's pencilled by a penciller, it's inked by an inker, coloured by a colorist and/or colouring studio, lettered by a letterer and/or lettering studio and edited by an editor. Since it's a free country you don't have to buy it if you don't like it, and most importantly...if you really hate it, you don't get mad at it. Why? Because it's a comic book. That's right, it's just paper and ink :O!
And on another subject the prequels didn't suck because there was a lot of talking in it, they sucked because it was all lame plotting and lame characterization and lame dialogue and lame execution. There was still a lot of action in, say, Episode 1...but it was all tampered by moronic decisions like Jar Jar binks defeating an entire army through sheer force of clumsyness and robots going "Oh oh! Roger roger!". Or Jake fucking Lloyd racing through deadly twists and turns in the fastest, most dangerous course on the galaxy...except for when he needs to fix his pod mid-race...then there's no obstacles for 30 minutes. There was a lot of talking in the original trilogy, as i remember...except the original trilogy had Harrison Ford, among other actors, who could really pull off some lucas speak. NO WAIT, I'M KIDDING! Buzz Maverick is right, the prequels suck because of decompression. -
It's called DON'T BRING UP THE BABY!! If Wanda wants to beleve she has two half-android half mutant brats, let her. Don't say a fucking word and everything will be fine.
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Jun 10, 2005 7:42:33 PM CDT
El Vale (Which Is Spanish For The Vale, BTW), I Would Agree WIth
by buzz maverik
...if we were just two jerks talking in a comic shop or something. But since we're two jerks talking online, and this is a comic book column and the purpose was to discuss our reactions to HOUSE O' M, then it's a lame argument more along the lines of "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all...or lie." To hell with that noise! No one is mad at a comic book. We're just giving our opinions. One might say, "If you can't handle anything but positive reviews, don't read reviews". As far as not buying HOUSE O' M, that's what I'd advise a friend. But here, I don't really believe we should be telling you guys what to buy or not to buy. Your own opinions and instincts are what counts in that department. We're just passing along our impressions. For someone who doesn't like superhero comics, you're pretty interested in this one though so I'd say you deserve to read HOUSE O' M. So belly on up!
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"The close ups of Emma Frost make her look like the best looking real estate agent in the office who has gone soft from too many margaritas and too much sitting."
Great quote! I laughted out loud, and almost wanted to pick up the book based on seeing that picture. Almost.
Bendis's stuff is boring, rambling tripe, that succeeds in the way Fox TV used to with "When Animals Attack" or the way the local news does when it leads with a car crash story. It's a slick, flashy, instant-orgasm type of viseral thrill only peddling to our lowest interests. It is only only a SHOCKING HEADLINE! and no story behind it. Too bad, since he practically writes half the Marvel books these days. -
Jun 10, 2005 8:57:46 PM CDT
And finally...you gave a WHOLE column to a comic you disliked, a
by sideshowbob
Well, under the old adage that "any press is good press" (which is true by the way), Joe Q says "thanks".
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I may get my throat slit from ear to ear for this, @$$holes being sort of like really hardcore Freemasons when it comes to revealing secrets, but the truth is Sideshow...when we do one of these roundtables we have no friggin' clue as to what the end result is gonna be. That's both the fun and frustration for us. It's fun because it's spontaneous and we sometimes get to fight amongst ourselves (FF 10-center, IDENTITY CRISIS), but less fun when we all end up agreeing with each other (Kevin Smith's SPIDEY/BLACK CAT). By the time the consensus is in, we're sort of invested, though. We've back-and-forthed enough e-mails to get our spam filters nervous and we've usually decided to take the week off from our regular reviews. Is it because there's no good comics to review? Fuck no, it's because we need a vacation every once in a while and a roundtable's as close as we can get! Except for whoever's editing it together. That sumbitch is screwed, because he's gotta take something like twenty pages and edit it down to half that or less (no shit, this thing is vastly edited). Is it still a little bloated and unwieldy? Maybe, but so are event comics, know what I mean? "When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks back." On the other hand, it's maybe one or two columns out of the entire year, and speaking for myself (comnpletely unbiased, I assure you), I pretty much always find some interesting points in all the jibba jabba. If you're a regular, sure, there's gonna be some rehashing, but you're not the center of the world, pal! We've got newbies to expose to Bendis's flaws, and besides...geez, before we started we figured at least *one* of us would like and defend HOUSE OF M. As it turns out...not so much. Guess that's the magic of live TV, innit? Anyway, reviews back next week, so keep your shirt on, and thanks for coming back enough to know when we're repetitive. I'm pretty sure that means something, and that something is you halfway like us. Or are stalking us.
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About the whole don't like don't buy thing i wasn't talking directly to you, i was just speaking in general terms. Hate Bendis? Don't buy House of M because you'll most likely hate it. I, of course, understand that you're performing a service by reviewing one of the biggest books coming out these days. Why is it big? Because it's been hyped up to exhaustion. Are you really surprised? It's a crossover promising to change things forever and it's got every possible bit of editorial attention directed to it, why shouldn't Marvel and Joe Q pimp the hell out of it? Let's compromise here: This is my favourite review column. Your reviews are a treat to read most of the time and they're a breath of fresh air when compared to Forthrail or something. My problem with the whole thing is that this roundtable review consists of bitching about how Marvel sucks, how Bendis sucks and how decompression sucks for two damn hours...which is what your average reviewer would call repetitive and decompressed. There's a difference between bad reviews and bad reviews. This is my opinion. I'm still entitled to it right? Now people being mad at a comic book is something i've seen happen, because people tend to take these characters and these universes too seriously which is just not healthy since the only person who's gonna do exactly what you want done with them is you. And some people are just pussies, like that fuckhead @$$hole who came here a few weeks back saying he'd been driven away from comics because there was no sense of wonder anymore. Get the fuck outta here you maggot and don't ever come back...comics don't need you. And lastly, this is my first ever message board argument, and it's been a fun so far...so it's not really about House of M, it's about calling everyone who doesn't agree with me a fuckhead. Like i said before, we don't get comics here in Colombia so even if i wanted to read me some House of M i couldn't pick it up. But i'd much rather spend the money on Walking dead or something, because that one gets rave reviews everywhere it goes. Or maybe even Runaways cause it sounds like fun. You should live in a country where getting comics is near impossible dude, it'd change your attitude completely. 2 days and you'd stop caring if Hawkeye or whatever his name was died because he forgot tuck and roll. All you'd want is to READ SOME DAMN COMICS, and then you'd be like me. Lucky you.
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If Bendis writes a comic you don't like and you guys get to bash him because of it in a review, then i get to bash you guys if i don't like said review. Review reviewer, is there a sadder position than that? Oh how the mighty have fallen.
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Line 1: "Anyway my point is stop crying about every goddamn thing you stupid fucking fag-men!" Line 2: "This is my favourite review column." Crazy, huh? It seems like if we were really his favori-- Ah hell, I just think it's cool that we've got a reader from Columbia! New reviews next week, kids! In the meantime, chill! In the other meantime, someone tell me if their copy of the DEEP SLEEPER trade had the same misprint mine did where one page appeared twice! I love that book, but I read my trade and that snafu really ticked me off. Why, God, why?! I was quoted on that book and I want it to be *perfect*! I dunno, maybe by the time it gets around to being printed in Columbia for El Vale, the glitch will have been fixed, so don't go telling me we Americans have it easy.
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Usually.
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Dave...listen to me, it's not that hard, just please PLEASE get it right! You may have a whole bunch of readers from the ColUmbia district, i'm sure. You have one reader from ColOmbia. And that's me. And if there's ever a chance of having Deep Sleeper printed here, it'll be a translated edition, and i don't read translated comics. Still it's not geting translated because it's an independent comic and the only ones who get translated are Superman and Batman and X-Men. And Witchblade! :D I save my money and order my trades online from grasshoppers usually. I'm waiting for my Walking dead vol 1 and Y: The last man vol 1 trades :D
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My local comic shop is having a problem unloading their massive stack of "House of M" comics, even a harder time than unloading those 30 Sha-na-na comics they ordered! It looks like they sold all of 10 copies since last week, very very low for that location. Just makes the Marvel/DC "Comics that sellout before hitting the stands" all the more lame.
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you sure are an angry one, nice to see another colombian around though. i don't have much hope for this house of m project though. i do however have hope of colombia pipping that 4th qualifying spot from ecuador.
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I'm no angry person, i'm lovable and peaceful! And yeah i mean House of M...it's just another crossover, they're sort of meaningless. However we might be fourth but that's a small miracle in ther making. Ecuador's light years away from us at this point, they fucking beat brazil AND Argentina, they deserve their third place. My faith is on a nice little 5th place and a chance to beat Australia. Where are you my man?
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Jun 11, 2005 10:44:39 PM CDT
blackthought doesn't do hugs.....only natalie portman......a
by blackthought
yeah ecuador is up there,maybe paraguay....i wan't an automatic spot. glad to just be scoring goals though....whatever happened to johnnier montano? and will rodallega play at the world cup if we make it? oh crap, i forgot this was about comics. i live in the states man.....where in colombia you at?
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I've no idea where Monta
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Jun 13, 2005 10:54:06 AM CDT
For someone who doesn't seem to care about what the @$$holes
by ribbons
Seems like it anyway.
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6 times.
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They'd have to erase almost every post in this thread. And this is not a dictatorship, they can't censor you for stuff like that, right? Right?
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Hey Vale and black speaking as an ecuadorian living in the states that has visited "la madre patria" often i know exactly what you mean about the lack of comics. i guess lack is not accuarte because they do have them but they dont have the comic shop where you can go and pick up the latest books on a wednesday for example. i do love me some Condorito tho and whenever anyone from over there visits here i get a huge stack of them. but i give back! i sent my cousins an xbox and a ton of games. as for our # 3 spot i just say its a long time coming. weve been kind of a joke before so im glad were stepping up finally.my 2 best friends are argentinian and believe me i hear way too much shit from those guys!now i get to talk a little shit! and dave my copy of deep sleeper had the double page too! you know what i was so engrossed in the story that i went right through it again and thought it was part of the story till my second reading. i remember the first time i read it through i thought " thats cool how the writer conveyed the dream world as repeating itself,like the matrix glitching" (i know,i know im a dork!)so at least in my case it added to the story so dont feel bad your name is attached to it!
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It's not like the dropped page is a huge thing, but with a book as good as DEEP SLEEPER, you want everything to be perfect, y'know?
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Ecuatoriano eh? I was gonna talk some shit about that 3-0, but then i felt bad. And how awesome is it to have this talkback partially dominated by south american soccer results for chrissakes?! Condorito man, there's a discussion to be had about Condorito...and even tho' i'm not a big fan, there's some amazing jokes in there. And " thats cool how the writer conveyed the dream world as repeating itself,like the matrix glitching" I loved that! And i'll say this again: Have you wondered why we're speaking english to eachother? Maybe we want these gringos to understand our bullshit.
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I did notice that source of ire post title but i never got to read it and i thought there was somethign wrong with my pc. He got banned? Why didn't i get banned?
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LAST!
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