May 21, 2005, 4:36 p.m. CST
by invalid quinn
Seeing it today!
May 21, 2005, 4:36 p.m. CST
I just got done watching this soulless two hour cartoon. LUCAS, YOU OWE ME SEVEN BUCKS!
May 21, 2005, 4:36 p.m. CST
Better than Jedi!
May 21, 2005, 4:36 p.m. CST
May 21, 2005, 4:37 p.m. CST
...has...a...different opinion than me.
seen 4 times since the midnight screening , dissapointed by no differences in digital version as was claimed.
May 21, 2005, 4:40 p.m. CST
What theater is still only $7.00? Oh, I guess matinees are cheaper. What the Hell did ebert say anyway? I haven't read it. I thought the movie was pretty good, and parts of it are awesome, but I can't help but wonder if even the haters wanted it to redeem the franchise a little, and that's why it's scoring so well on RT. I mean people go online to bitch much more often than to praise.
May 21, 2005, 4:42 p.m. CST
Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've contsructed.
May 21, 2005, 4:42 p.m. CST
I'd now like to see Lucas remake the OT. Have Christansen paly Luke, and maybe someone like Johnny Knoxville play Han Solo...
May 21, 2005, 4:42 p.m. CST
by DAS JANKE
and i generally hate everything. i've seen it 3 times in as many days, and i must say: it's got great replay value.
May 21, 2005, 4:42 p.m. CST
Were there any differences other than clarity on digital screens? I remember reading something about an extra Bagobah scene and other "Extras" for the digital projections...that was untrue, then?
May 21, 2005, 4:43 p.m. CST
by Nice Marmot
May 21, 2005, 4:45 p.m. CST
To killing a room full of prepubescent Jedis?
May 21, 2005, 4:45 p.m. CST
by Deak the Geek
this movie has made me love star wars even more if that was posible..a story about a boy who became a man who turned evil and was then redemed by his children..a great story..28 years...6 movies....1 story....thank you mr Lucas..you have made me a very happy man.
May 21, 2005, 4:52 p.m. CST
You lucky bastard! All the slave Leias at my screening weighed in excess of 300lbs! Though to be fair, they looked positively petite next to all the 440lb stormtroopers and Darth Vaders. I'm beginning to think that "The 501st" is a reference to weight.... Either that, or the number of times they masturbated to 220lb Slave Leias.
May 21, 2005, 4:53 p.m. CST
"InZodWeTrust I'd now like to see Lucas remake the OT. Have Christansen paly Luke, and maybe someone like Johnny Knoxville play Han Solo..." You better be joking.
May 21, 2005, 4:54 p.m. CST
Was Temura Morrison's magically floating head. Dodgy CGI amd wooden acting. Lucas...you had me at hello.
May 21, 2005, 4:54 p.m. CST
... It's so that I can convince my 9yr old and 6yr old kids that going to see Star Wars will be fun!!!!
May 21, 2005, 4:56 p.m. CST
The whole last hour was dependent on the fact that Anakin's turn would work. It didn't. Remember the way look was chopping at Darth Vader at the end of Jedi? Then he decides not to turn after he was so angry. Anakin's turn should have been the same except he decides to join the Emperor. Instead we get.."what have I done?...uh okay I'll join you...now I'll kill some kids and complain about the way of the universe for another hour" He was just a punk kid with annoying complaints...not the greatest film villain ever. It didn't give any weight to anything that happens in the rest of the movie...or all of the movies for that matter. George had a chance to make something great and he ended up making something just okay.
May 21, 2005, 4:58 p.m. CST
sorry, typing in anger means spelling errors.
May 21, 2005, 4:58 p.m. CST
The one with the king? That thing is indeed creepy as all get-out. But I've never liked that king in the first place...
May 21, 2005, 5:01 p.m. CST
Wonderful film and it was shoehorned perfectly between AOTC and New Hope.
May 21, 2005, 5:02 p.m. CST
and I've seen it four times so far already. It's absoultely fucking spectacular.
May 21, 2005, 5:03 p.m. CST
I want a giant lizard ,but could not afford to feed it horses. I expected a lot from this film and it delivered. Nice one george
May 21, 2005, 5:03 p.m. CST
May 21, 2005, 5:04 p.m. CST
I can't believe how everyone accepts this so easily. Yeah it was fun...but Brilliant? Spectacular? He dropped the ball again guys... he didn't drop it as bad as the other movies and this movie has it's great moments no doubt. I'm a HUGE Star Wars fan and I just can't accept that this punk is Darth Vader... Vader saying "Nooooooooo!" is the worst decision in film history. I prefer Greedo shooting first to that.
May 21, 2005, 5:05 p.m. CST
by I Dunno
...and best summer action film in a long ass time. It had a real story, decent acting and the best FX and editing of any film ever. If the dialogue seemed bad, it's because the characters themselves aren't Shakespearean poets. So people who hate the movies or the prequels or Star Wars in general, I'm sorry. I for one had a kick ass time for 3 hours with a bunch of other SW geeks and afterward, yes, I did get laid. And not in my parents' basement. They have an attic.
May 21, 2005, 5:05 p.m. CST
You'd be there "FIRST" in line, and you know it.
May 21, 2005, 5:08 p.m. CST
Yes, there will be more Star Wars feature films...it is virtually guaranteed, regardless of whether they are produced in 5 years, 10 years, or 20 years.
May 21, 2005, 5:08 p.m. CST
May 21, 2005, 5:10 p.m. CST
May 21, 2005, 5:12 p.m. CST
but i'll bite. What would you have prefered Vader to scream, shitheap? Your criticisms are fucking weak. You don't even have anything specific. I, for one, do not believe that you are this "HUGE Star Wars fan." You're the punk, and I defy you to produce some real criticism.
May 21, 2005, 5:15 p.m. CST
In the end this film was only slightly better than the first two. The painful dialogue was still there, with about eight nearly identical scenes taking place in luxury apartments in the sky, with a backdrop of the city and all its flying cars. Over and over and over...
May 21, 2005, 5:17 p.m. CST
Vader should have just made the room explode (or implode) like Akira or something. Noooooo! was almost comedic. The audience I was watching this with (twice!) laughed both times. Not the feeling you want when Darth Vader is born. My true criticism is this. The build was great. The first hour was pure Star Wars...when I was watching the 1st hour I thought "This is better than Jedi! I love this" After Mace Windu fights the movie takes a turn that doesn't hold up because Anakin doesn't really change. He just does bad things that make little to no sense. If we had seen his anger take over (like the dark side is supposed to do) the rest of the film would have been much more effective. My problem is that he doesn't seem at all to be Darth Vader. This is supposed to be the most horrible man in the Galaxy...not a boy with issues
May 21, 2005, 5:17 p.m. CST
by mr jones
and see that this movie is good, (like matrix 2 was), but that's it; that as part of a trilogy it ain't that good. realistically, anyone who watched all the moveies 1-6 in that order will think the second three (4-6) are weak; they're not, but if we're honest, darth vader is the worst darth ever. i still think that darth maul was the best ever. as for new vader, why don't they deck him out like grievous etc... this movie was good, but it wasn't what the fans wanted, and it wasn't what the public wanted. $400 million. which is rubbish for a movie of this size
May 21, 2005, 5:19 p.m. CST
On the plus side, if more SW movies get made, Lucas may be too old to direct them and may have to settle for producer while someone with a steadier hand moves to the helm. Any nominations?
May 21, 2005, 5:20 p.m. CST
What an incredibly beautiful yet soulless movie. I think what I loved the most was the murdering of the Jedi's by the Clones...did anyone else not think it was too damny easy? I mean, this is THE climactic event of the six movies, this is how Palpatine gets power--by removing the one group that totally stands in his way, and in the space of sixty seconds they all get shot in the back, except for Yoda, who looked more disturbed as a puppet in Empire when Luke was being a sniveling brat. I'm so glad these abominations are over. For a while I thought I was watching Blade 2 with all the crappy CGI. Ian was the only good thing about the movie, and even some of his stuff was lame. And Hayden Christensan...I mean...we thought Mark Hamill was a horrible wooden actor? Bottom line-- I wanted to like/love these movies as much as you guys. But they aren't movies...they're just glitzy cartoons. This one was just as mediocre as the other two, I can't believe all the people giving it good reviews.
May 21, 2005, 5:22 p.m. CST
He's right in an odd way. I still love a lot of it. But I think you all like it way too much.
May 21, 2005, 5:22 p.m. CST
Did anyone else think that the 3 Jedi accompanying Mace to arrest Palpatine were completely useless with a lightsaber? If they had to die without even moving, at least Lucas could have added some Matrix-esque bullet-time to show that Palpaltine moved way too fast for them to react. Otherwise, those were the most useless Jedi ever.
May 21, 2005, 5:24 p.m. CST
by Deak the Geek
I don't think Lucas will hand the movies to anyone else..there his babies...he aint bothered about giving the t.v shows to other people...but the movies he will take to the grave..
May 21, 2005, 5:25 p.m. CST
May 21, 2005, 5:25 p.m. CST
Anakin seemed pretty fucking angry throughout the last half of the film. You can tell because of all the angry shouting. Should Vader have screamed out "YESSSS!" or "PADME!!!!" or something? Give one better alternative. Vader should have made the room explode? Vader using the force to destroy the room and droids wasn't enough for you? Hate to break it to you, idiot, but ROTS is not Akira. You didn't get any of that Frankenstien feeling from Vader's birth? You do realize that ANH takes place decades after ROTS, don't you? I guarantee you won't be or act the same in twenty years. Anakin doesn't really change, huh? Sure, going from a hero for the Republic and saving lives to killing little kids. Yeah, such a small insignificant change. Which of the "bad things" he did didn't make any sense? You've got nothing. You want to have something, you're struggling, but you've got nothing.
May 21, 2005, 5:26 p.m. CST
I think ROTS had some perfect moments but the flaws are so HUGE they completey undermin the whole film, Anakins turn just doesn't work.
May 21, 2005, 5:28 p.m. CST
A terrible film. And what is apparent now is that nobody actually cared if it was any good.. As long as Anakin somehow ended up as Vader the stupid fucking masses will spoon feed themselves whatever is in front of them. You should all be ashamed of yourselves for taking part in the wholesale desicration of what coul have been one of the greatest stories ever told.
May 21, 2005, 5:28 p.m. CST
May 21, 2005, 5:28 p.m. CST
The fact that you would resort to insults and anger shows your lack of intelligence. I see why you bought Anakin's turn so easilty. I'm sure other people (as I've read in almost every review, positive and negative) think Anakin turned too quickly. If you don't think Vader screaming NOOO! at the end was cheesy...wow. You're kidding yourself my friend.
May 21, 2005, 5:28 p.m. CST
It's better than 1 & 2 but overall the story really didn't do it for me, and George's fascination with ridiculous droid humor just annoys me. The VFX were spectacular with only one or 2 shots that felt unfinished. The editing on the other hand, needed some work in my opinion, because the pace really lagged and there were way too many beauty shots of ships and cities and stuff, followed by conversations that literally seemed to be waiting for us to arrive before they began. A good re-cut on the film would have those conversations starting over the beauty shots and then we arrive while the characters are mid-conversation. And yet, I felt like there was actually 2 movies worth of material in there had things been handled differently. I think the biggest mistake was starting the saga with Anakin as an 8-yr-old. The story of Attack of the Clones should have been the story for Ep I, with Anakin starting out as a young man and already a Jedi in training. Ep 2 could have been his turn and Ep 3 his transformation into Vader. This is all just my opinion, but I just feel like the movies as a trilogy spent too much time on inconsequential fluff (e.g. Jar Jar, General Greivous, Jango Fett) and rushed through the monumental moments like the birth of Luke and Leia, Yoda going into exile, the hiding of the kids, Padme's death, even Anakin's turn to the Dark Side. And in the end, when you go back to Ep 4 and 5, things don't jive. ("I don't remember owning any droids." "Obi-Wan? I haven't been called that since long before you were born." Luke on Dagobah: "There's something familiar about this place." and on and on.) It also occurred to me after seeing Ep 3 that Darth Maul, Count Dooku, and General Greivous should have all been one character. How cool would it have been to have Sidious resurrect Darth Maul as a cyborg (sort of a beta test for what he would finally get right with Vader), and keep the coolest character from Ep 1 throughout the prequels? As it sits now, all 3 of these potentially standout characters were wasted and the end result is that the narrative drive of the prequel trilogy is somewhat diffused because we didn't have a clear "bad guy" driving it. Yes, Palpatine / Sidious was running the show from Ep 1, but he was such an indirect presence for most of the story that he doesn't fill the role that Vader did in the OT, (which is the "face" of the opponent). Just imagine if Darth Maul could have done that, while transforming into the killer cyborg Greivous was supposed to be? Maybe then he wouldn't have gone out like a complete pussy. Anyway... my 2 cents. I'm just a nut for the original trilogy, plain and simple.
May 21, 2005, 5:28 p.m. CST
Lucas has only directed 4 out of the 6. Therefore, he has the power to hand them over to others, especially once he's too old to take the helm.
May 21, 2005, 5:30 p.m. CST
The only two fights that I didn't feel were rushed (speaking of the PT, that is) were Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan vs. Maul and Obi-Wan vs. Anakin. Maybe not bullet-time, Jubba, but at least they could have put up a better fight.
May 21, 2005, 5:30 p.m. CST
by mr jones
the three jedi that went with mace; there seemed no point, since they were obviously rubbish level 1 jedi. what annoys me is that lucas, for the 'dramatic' sections, still wants more CGI than exists in most movies, just to make it look pretty. What ever happened to dark space? if someone has something to say, then what does the background matter? according to lucas, it means everything...
May 21, 2005, 5:31 p.m. CST
This movie had MUCH better acting than TPM and AOTC, plus (just like the second half of AOTC) this actually felt like a REAl Star Wars movie!
May 21, 2005, 5:35 p.m. CST
My reation: yuck. I felt the story, the acting, the script, and the emotional payoffs were poorly executed in every way imaginable, which is now typical of Lucas. This episode even ruined the original trilogy for me, since I now don't give a shit about Luke or Leia. So sad, really. Lucas could've hit it out of the park, even with the cringeworthy lines sprinkled here and there, but it's now obvious to me that Lucas has no clue how to tell a good story. His writing is so clumsy and hackneyed it's painful to behold on-screen. I'm sure it sounded great in his head when he wrote it, but there's a reason professional script editors exist, and it's sad Lucas didn't hire one before shooting began. The Brittany Spears generation seems to love this film, which is cool, but no one can convince me that Lucas put forth his best effort in making this film. In six months, moviegoers will look back on "Sith" with the same contempt and disappointment they now feel for the first two prequels. Lucas could've been remembered as a great filmmaker. Instead, he'll be remembered as pretty good.
May 21, 2005, 5:35 p.m. CST
One of the main goals of Revenge of the Sith was to make it all fit together. The last film of the prequel series, writer/director George Lucas needed to make sure everything would connect to A New Hope and beyond. In that respect, Episode III achieves its motives. By far the best of the current three films, Revenge is a slickly produced film and while the acting has improved, the Velveeta cheesy dialogue remains. I understand what Lucas was doing in both The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones; he was telling an epic tale of how a democracy can be easily manipulated into a dictatorship. He needed those two films to explain all that would happen in Revenge and beyond. And I accept that his direction to be uninspired, and his words a bit silly and embarrassing. Like I said, it
May 21, 2005, 5:37 p.m. CST
by Deak the Geek
May 21, 2005, 5:37 p.m. CST
by mr jones
dies rubbishly, and doesn't do anything. but after all six movies, everyone i know agrees that darth maul, (double-bladed sabre and all), was by far the best baddie in the series, (taking away his lucas-esque completely rubbish death). I don't know anyone that thinks his pacing while waiting isn't the best bit in ep I
May 21, 2005, 5:39 p.m. CST
I agree. Give it six months and the film will be looked at as a sub par entry in the series. It's official the the prequels as a whole are a lame attempt to bring back the magic that was Star Wars...now that they are all over. It's official.
May 21, 2005, 5:41 p.m. CST
You can't even answer a simple question, even when it's repeated twice. I'm not sure why you think I "bought" Anakin's turn so "easilty." You like to make hyperbolic statements with no support. My point is that you have no real criticisms, just obtuse feelings that you cannot define. Your criticism, in fact. is exactly like 90% of the criticism that Star Wars always gets. As for Mace's posse getting killed so quickly? There are always only two Sith lords. Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar and Mace Windu have NEVER fought a Sith lord before. Hence he makes quick work of them. And the most powerful Jedi, Windu, comes the closest to defeating him.
May 21, 2005, 5:44 p.m. CST
May 21, 2005, 5:44 p.m. CST
by mr jones
thay impassionately, all six star wars films really aren't that good. for sfx, lotr and various others win, for story, virtually every other movie wins, and for sheer charisma, (apart from ford), sw isn't even close. in fact, take away the 'best film ever mark, and i think "flash gordon" is the best sci-fi movie of the era, (becaues it personalises everything). oh, and before you say, i've seen ep 3 twice, and like all six; just realise that for 90% of the population, they're not the be-all and end-all of film
May 21, 2005, 5:49 p.m. CST
But still not as good as the OT. Just about any scene involving Padme and Anakin was full of wooden acting and stunted dialogue. However, we did get some awesome battles, lightsaber duels...and we finally got some backstory on Palpatine. And RicCage, Anakin's conversion did work. The moment he lopped Windu's hand off and saw him die, he knew he'd crossed the point of no return. He could never go back. The only thing left to do was pledge himself to Palpatine and pray that he could save Padme. I guess all that killing screwed him up, because...drumroll...Is Anakin Skywalker gonna hafta choke a bitch? Anyway, it was at least decent. Give it some time and see if that consensus holds.
May 21, 2005, 5:51 p.m. CST
I think a lot of you guys are missing. The people that are "dissing" the films wanted to like them as much as you guys did. It is a *beautiful* story, it's just not told very well, and that's what makes it so dissapointing for this fan. And as far as the acting being so much better than the TPM and AOTC...yes, it was a lot better. But that doesn't mean it was good. Didn't any of you see those pieces of excrement?
May 21, 2005, 5:51 p.m. CST
And they're certainly not meant to be. If you honestly expect that, and I think a lot of you do, then you are obviously going to be disappointed. These films aren't like Magnolia or whatever. None of these actors are striving for an Oscar. Lucas isn't shooting for Best Director. None of these characters are meant to be perfect. Anakin's reasons for turning to the Dark Side are "muddled" and "not logical?" No shit, Sherlock. Since when has the descent into evil ever been logical?
May 21, 2005, 5:52 p.m. CST
by Deak the Geek
when Obi wan said that...it sent shivers up my spine....I don't give a rats arse what anyone says...i loved the movie...and thats all that matters to me.
May 21, 2005, 6 p.m. CST
I'm a brit who saw it on opening night, so for a different perspective: Read on! *********First of all, enjoyed the movie thoroughly! Here are the few niggles I had - but then I didn't make it, did I? :-) 1. Mace Windu seemed to be a bloater this time around, Samuel L could have at least lost some weight! I don't buy fat jedi. 2. BECAUSE the film was good, it makes the first two look like they were written and directed by a completely different person and stand out like a sore thumb. Here's hoping for massive edits for the DVD box set releas! 3. The 'NOOOOOOOO!' was a bit badly done, but I'm not sure why people keep mentioning this 'dying of a broken heart' crap for Padme like it's an actual quote. The version I saw, the droid only said 'she's lost the will to live, there's nothing we can do'. If your going to quote, pay attention to whats being said. 4. And finally, to the complete morons on the first talkback trying to find some complicated sub-plot conspiricy to Padme's 'large tummy' after her giving birth. You total fucktards, pregnant bellies don't just 'dissapear' like Obi-fucking-wan Kenobi; they take time! Get out more and meet some women for christs' sakes!
May 21, 2005, 6:03 p.m. CST
...at the anakin-padme lines that went something like this. Anakin: You are so beautiful Padme: I am only beautiful because i love you so much Anyway, i didnt go for the 'love' story. I enjoyed the movie but was disappointed with the Padme character. Padme turned from a powerful politician in the first movie to a simpering idiot in the third. She died of a broken heart, give me a break...
May 21, 2005, 6:05 p.m. CST
friends and I laughed through most of it, along with most of the theatre. a few moments where one person tried to applaud a "cool" moment, but no one joined in. not even worth an argument here, it's just bad. the only redeeming moments were the death sequence for the Jedi, and every single reference to the original trilogy in terms of sets and locales, though all they did was make me want to pop in Episode IV. yawn. move on.
May 21, 2005, 6:06 p.m. CST
Should have been Eps I-III.
May 21, 2005, 6:07 p.m. CST
If you don't mind, I'd like to address the question you asked RicCage. Mr_Miracle, you wrote, "Anakin seemed pretty fucking angry throughout the last half of the film... Should Vader have screamed out "YESSSS!" or "PADME!!!!" or something? Give one better alternative." All right, I'll give you an alternative: he doesn't scream anything. In fact, the scene is nearly silent. Vader starts breathing in his mask, rises to his feet, and turns toward the Emperor. He stares at the Emperor for a sad, prolonged moment, then gathers himself and bows his head toward his new master, who grins in smug triumph. This scenario would've evoked a sense of great loss, of great tragedy, without Vader saying or shouting anything. And this is just an idea off the top of my head, one of hundreds that would've been more gripping than Lucas's "NOOOOO!!!" And I'm not the only person who feels this way.
May 21, 2005, 6:07 p.m. CST
When Padme is combing her hair we are supposed to laugh at how silly they are acting. I mean, Padme gets him to say that she is beautiful to him only because he is in love with her... then he all of a sudden catches it and nervously says "That's not exactly what I meant." It is corny but funny, on purpose. At first I thought that was a scene that didn't belong at all but after seeing the movie a few times it has grown on me, but as comedy relief. I thought the rest of their moments together worked very well. Their best was their first and last scenes together.
May 21, 2005, 6:10 p.m. CST
Luckily, I survived to see how the saga came to an end (as did we all). I realized that it wasn't the prequel trilogy I wanted to see at first and I was dissapointed,. But then I realized my notions of the prequels were promulgated through other interenet nerds with too much free time on their hands who shaped my minds of the prequels at such a young age. Now, all warts aside, I'm happy with the story of the Prequels. I'm a little less than enthused about the actual scripts (although SITH's writing is better). I'm the weird guy who likes Phantom Menace better than Clones, maybe its because the time leading up to MEnace was much more magical and fun than it was leading up to AOTC (which was more cynical). I didn't know the prequels were going to "suck" when MENACE came out, so I had huge expectations. I went through anti-Prequels phase about a year or so after, but I cant not lot Star Wars, its in my blood to love these movies. And I do. No matter how irritating some little things are, they're still fun movies. Well, except for Revenge of the Sith. But the first part is fun, and the rest (aside from a few of PAdme's lines and some other little things near the end) is just amazing. When the DUEL begins, I get chills. I've seen the movie twice, and I enjoyed it much better the 2nd time (the first time we had to settle for a theater with about 1/4 of the speakers out). But the best thing about these movies, is about how they rattled our imaginations before their release with so much fan speculation. Mentally I had 3 versions of each movie based on rumors and internet sources, and they were all good movies in my head. Just the excitement that led up to each movie, i wouldnt trade for anything. Thanks for the time Lucas, now get on Indy 4, the TV shows, and those artsy fartsy movies youre promising everyone.
May 21, 2005, 6:13 p.m. CST
Episode 3 can be played along with the new DMB album like Floyd/The Wall! The new Dave Matthews album is in sync with Revenge of the Sith! Just like Pink Floyd
May 21, 2005, 6:13 p.m. CST
by Liberty Valance
I never fail to be surprised by the hypocritical contempt and jealousy for those who are more successful than we could ever dream of being. If you or I owned a commodity as revered and lusted after by the general public as Star Wars we would milk it for as much as we could for as long as we could. You can never have enough money and anyone who claims otherwise is a godfucking liar. We are all whores for money. We work shitty jobs for asshole bosses with co-workers we despise for one reason and one reason only: MONEY. I don't care how much you have in the bank or how financially comfortable you are, if someone offers you more there ain't a person here who would turn it down. ROTS made $50 million on a fucking THURSDAY. So if you owned this franchise you wouldn't repeatedly cash in on that kind of demand, huh? BULL FUCKING SHIT. Spare me your idealistic ramblings about artistic integrity and being content with what you have. Get every penny you can, George, because every last fucking one of us would do the same thing in your place, even though they lack the balls to admit it. Fucking hypocrites.
May 21, 2005, 6:15 p.m. CST
Needs to take their meds. The pacing was hyper-fast. Also, someone here said that the people giving the movie shit WANTED to like it... bullshit. I would guess that 90% of the people who are trashing the movie went in with the same predisposition as they have for the last two. To hate it. The funny thing is that if you look at the reviews for the movie and polled fan reactions, the movie is getting great support. The only place we see this kind of horseshit bashing is from a few critics and the usual Internet crowd. The general public has no idea that you people exist.
May 21, 2005, 6:21 p.m. CST
The only reason this movie is making so much more money is because it's a better film than the previous prequels.
May 21, 2005, 6:32 p.m. CST
May 21, 2005, 6:33 p.m. CST
by Henry Fool
I have a good friend whose currently living in Baghdad, Iraq, working on the reconstruction (or demolition, depending on how you look at it ;-). Anyway
May 21, 2005, 6:35 p.m. CST
Just watch. George will 'suddenly' realize that he had one more bit of story to tell to wrap things up, and keeping in line with his whole 'one story' thing, he'll make one more film to push it to an even Seven, and claim that it was meant to be a 'Perfect Seven' chapters all along, like Rowling's doing with Potter. I'm telling you, we'll see an announcement within a few years at the most.
May 21, 2005, 6:47 p.m. CST
ROTS owns. All the haters seem to be bashing this time is the 'Nooooooo' scene. If you have to beat the movie with a stick that limp, you know you're in trouble. ROTS lasts for 140 minutes, that line for 5 seconds. A million dollars minus a dollar is still a million dollars. Loved OB1's deadpan 'so uncivilized' as he throws the blaster away after capping Grievous, a nice counterpoint to the scene in Star Wars where he gives Luke the lightsaber ('not as clumsy or random as a blaster'). And Mcdiarmid snarling 'I AM the Senate!' was pimp. One thing i haven't seen discussed anywhere yet. Just after Anakin kills Dooku and releases the Chancellor, he says something like 'remember what you told me about your mother and the Sand People?'. I'm convinced that there's a Tusken Raider 'howl' on the soundtrack at that point. Anyone else catch that or is it just me?
May 21, 2005, 6:48 p.m. CST
by The Manic
During the scene at the opera house, where Palpatine is recounting the story of Darth Plageis, it seems to me that he's dropping heavy hints that he was responsible for creating Anakin. It's the part where he's talking about how a powerful enough master of the dark side could manipulate Midichloreans to create life. As he's saying this, Palps looks at Anakin, meaningfully. I was convinced ROTS was going to drop the bombshell of Palpatine ultimately being the one responsible for Anakin's birth (remember Shmi Skywalker telling Qui Gon that she fell pregnant without having concieved a child with anyone). And we didnt find out who Sifo Dyas was either, although I suppose it was obviously Dooku or Palpatine.
May 21, 2005, 6:51 p.m. CST
by zikade zarathos
it was pretty damn bad. The opening 10 minutes were nice enough, and Anakin reduced to a spitting, snarling, burnt-alive rabid-dog of a person was a great three-minutes, but the surrounding two-hours were abysmal in ways I didn't think possible. Every time someone opened their mouth, I could feel my good will evaporating. This is one of those times you just can't trust RottenTomatoes... if you actually READ those "good" reviews, most of 'em damn it with faint praise. "It didn't completely suck," is the overriding thought, and Ebert's "You don't go to see STAR WARS for witty dialogue or believable characterization" was the worst kind of critical rationalizing. He basically trashes it for eight paragraphs, then gives it three-and-a-half stars (as good as THE PIANIST or ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF A SPOTLESS MIND) for "creating and populating a world of his [Lucas's] own." Well then, I guess Henry Darger is the greatest novelist of all time. But we know that's not true. Creating the world isn't the hard part, creating believable characters is, and that's what matters. Escapism is escapism and should have a level of fun, but don't ask me to turn off my brain to enjoy it. All in all, I didn't like it, but I can't say I was disappointed -- for that to have happened, I would have to had to expect something more than what I got.
May 21, 2005, 6:55 p.m. CST
Okay, so Yoda has learnt from Qui-Gon how to become one with the force and communicate with the living. Obi-Wan learns how to do it and therefore talks to Luke even after he dies in the originals. So, at the end of Jedi we see Yoda, Obi-Wan and... Anakin?? When's Anakin surposed to have learned how to do this?
May 21, 2005, 6:57 p.m. CST
by The Manic
Because, y'know that was the only part of the movie that neither I nor seemingly anyone else was expecting.
May 21, 2005, 6:58 p.m. CST
One of the most funny things about these talkbacks is how some of the posters refer to the others is ways like "you people are fat and pale and never get laid" or "nobody in the world cares about what you people say on here" or "everyone on here is just a bunch of Internet nerds." While that may be true that some here are in fact like that, you are pretty much pointing the finger at yourself since you are posting here. It's almost as annoying to read that as the people who think that they're going to win some sort of a prize or something for posting in a thread first...
May 21, 2005, 7:10 p.m. CST
As people have said earlier, all that needed to be done to strengthen ROTS along with the AOTC/TPM was to spread the events of ROTS into AOTC.... When I read the ROTS novel, so much more was explained and the pacing was soooo much better. That is the main fault of ROTS. Points 'a' 'b' 'c' 'd' were all great, but the journey/pacing between was rushed and not fleshed out enough because too much was left to be crammed into ROTS. ***** NOVEL: pages 76-77, 84-85 (1) ***** In the lightsaber duel between Anakin and Dooku, Sidious and Anakin have a post martem talk on right/wrong. Sidious, "Have you ever noticed that the Jedi way is not always the right way? It wasn't wrong, Anakin. It may be not the Jedi way, but it was right. Perfectly natural--he took your head; you wanted revenge. And your revenge was justice." The Sidious goes on to act as a fatherly conspirator w/ Anakin acknowledging that he would keep Anakin's secret of the murder of Dooku just like he kept the secret of the slaughter of the Tusken Raiders. ***** page 153 (2) ***** The motivation for putting Anakin to spy on Sidious in the movie was not clear. In the novel it is clear that the Council suspects that the Sith Lord might be influencing Palpatine. Mace, "It is possible that we may have to... move against Palpatine. If he is truely under the control of the Sith Lord, it may be the only way." ***** page 163-164 (3) ***** The mystery over Padme's pregnancy is fully explained in the novel. Upon first coming back to Coruscant, Padme says, "Five months--how could they do that to us?" ... and in there reunion there's the first inkling of what is later to come (Vader force choking Padme). 'He took her by the shoulders now, his hands hard and irresistibly powerful. "I can feel it in the Force! There is something coming between us-- Who is it? Who?" His hands sprang open as though she had burned them. He took an unsteady step backward, his face suddenly ashen. "Padme--I would never--I'm so sorry, I just-- ***** (4) ***** Then there's the same no special effects laden scenes in the novel which do so much to flesh out the characters and their motivations. Page 189-90, Sidious and Anakin, "Nonsense, Age is no measure of wisdom. They keep you off the Council because it is there last hold they have on you, Anakin; it is how the control you. Once you're a Master, as you deserve, how will they make you do their bidding... You are not like them. You are younger. Stronger. Better. That is why they keep you down. They fear your power. They fear you." And oh so important is the exchange on page 191 between Anakin and Sidious, "This imaginary Sith Lord of theirs--even if he does exist, is he anyone to be feared? To be hunted down and exterminated without trial?" This directly sets up the Mace/Anakin/Sidious scene later and helps provide some insight into Anakin's mind at that juncture. Also, Sidious says that he would try and talk to the Dark Lord and see if he had any power to stop the war. Then perfectly paralleled on page 212 between Anakin and Obi-wan, "I would ask [the Sith Lord] if he has any power to save Padme ***** (5) ***** what happened to the formation of the Rebellion! page 204-206 with Mon Mothma, etc. ***** (6) pages 217-221 ***** actual good dialogue and human interaction between Anakin and Padme ***** Of course there's a lot more examples, I only highlighted a few from the first half of the novel. ***** (7) ***** There the Palpatine / Sidious transformation on pages 331 - 341 which explains why Sidious couldn't stop the force lightning, the mask of Palpatine and illustrates the final turn/acceptance to the dark side. ***** page 392 (8) ***** and what happened to these few simple lines of dialogue prior to the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel: Anakin "Nothing will happen. Nothing can happen. Let Palpatine call himself Emperor. Let him. He can do the dirty work, all the messy, brutal oppression it'll take to unite the galaxy forever--unite it against him. He'll make himself into the most hated man in history. And when the time is right, we'll throw him down--" or when Anakin realized Obi-Wan was a stow-away, Anakin "Palpatine was right. Sometimes it is the closest who cannot see. I loved you too much, Padme." "You turned her against me" ***** page 405-406 (9) ***** there is no mention of Obi-Wan having the high ground in the duel. It is just played out without the silly line of dialogue. ***** and finally, the last one I will highlight is with the construction of Darth Vader and the suit, page 417 'And you rage and scream and reach throught the Force to crush the shadow who has destroyed you, but you are so far less now than what you were, you are more than half machine, you are like a painter gone blind, a composer gone deaf, you can remember where the power was but the power you can touch is only a memory, and so with all your world-destroying fury it is only droids around you that implode, and equipment, and the table on which you were strapped shatters, and in the end, you cannot touch the shadow.'
May 21, 2005, 7:11 p.m. CST
...in about ten years time, when technology has moved on and Mr Lucas decides he 'couldn't quite tell the story he wanted with the technology at the time' and decides to release a 'special edition ROTS' where Padme' gives birth to black twins cause Mace is now the father, a digitally added scene of Anakin's cock getting fried and Grievous shoots first...
May 21, 2005, 7:13 p.m. CST
I loved ROTS. It's not perfect (Empire is still the perfect SW film) but I think it may wind up being my favorite. That said, was anybody else out there bothered by the pretty blatant Bush Bashing in ROTS? Don't get me wrong, I'm a progressive guy, I didn't vote for the sitting prez. But I didn't stand in line on Wednesday night to see Faranheit 911. I went to see Star Wars. Think about this: Since Lucas began writing the SAGA in the early 70s, he has seen 6 or 7 sitting presidents, each with their own crisises and policies. Is Bush really so important that Lucas felt he had to end a 30-year filmmaking journey, perhaps the most beloved film franchise ever, with what really amounted to some pretty pithy snipes at Bush (If you're not with me, you're my enemy; This war represents a failure to listen; This is how liberty dies, to thunderous applause)? I just felt it was innapropriate to do that in a film like Star Wars. How many of those SW fans voted for Bush? Lucas didn't need to pander to Michael Moore, he needed to entertain us all.
May 21, 2005, 7:14 p.m. CST
Tried to shoehorn in so much into too little space. This film should have run over 3 films. Like Bail Organa gets about 5 mins screen time over 2 films but Obi Wan just lets him take a kid..cause he says he wants one. He needed to be a character. we needed to want him to take the child. So much stuff like this was glossed over to make room for some souless,unexciting CGI chase like Obi-wan and Grevious. All the blame falls at Lucas and Rick (yes George) Macallum. Bad writing and storytelling all the way. All the cgi in the world can't hide it.....Oh and why does no one ask why Princess Leia is a princess when her adopted parents aren't royalty and she isnt married to royalty???
May 21, 2005, 7:16 p.m. CST
An you've lost the war. This movie kicks some fucking ass, the thing here is that you haters have no valid points to hate the movie or the entire saga. The movie is great, critics love it, and it broke a box office record. So stop your pointless posts, they are useless. Are you fans of LOTR? Most of the haters are.... because their lameful saga was second. Yes, that's their envy. LOTR was second and Star Wars was first. All who hits first, hits twice. So fuck you haters... you are lost, u don't have a life.
AWWW, i lost my copy and paste... damn Anyway, saw it friday, yes i'm a fan. it was good. and i liked the way the story moved along quickly and explained everything. still , the turn was so sorely lacking... i mean, come'on, slap the guy , make him do something other than woos out and say yes master. han had a big black nasty thing with needles and stuff facing him. i know he was leaning, so back off... it just didn't play out quite to well, but it did get the essence out.... so history may show this better than now. if i'm not mistaken, stories are handed down over time and take on a mystery and auroa of other worldness. I wish i could be 12 again and see this, but oh well. it kind a was good/great/cool. I agree EP1&2 should have been combined. Thought that immediately after seeing this, with this story spread out, especially considering the last few minutes to wrap up everyting tidy-like. Oh well. Shakesphere had his day and maybe Lucas will too, with the help of re-telling of the stories. ! Yeah !
May 21, 2005, 7:31 p.m. CST
Just like the previous two movies in the Star Wars prequel trilogy. Not only do we now have these three terrible, pointless, contradiction laden movies in existence, but by mere association of name alone, the original Star Wars trilogy is now actually WORSE! I wish George Lucas hadn't bothered coming up with Star Wars at all in the first place now. If you can't do something right, George, don't do it at all, as my old da used to say.
May 21, 2005, 7:35 p.m. CST
But can anyone tell me what's up with this? http://www.writestuffautographs.com/shop/images/products/film183.jpg
May 21, 2005, 7:36 p.m. CST
by Atticus Finch
Read several posts at different sites with haters who said something to the effect of "Yeah, I saw it for the third time and it still sucked", as most of them probably have.
May 21, 2005, 7:36 p.m. CST
May 21, 2005, 7:42 p.m. CST
Heh, yeah, I agree. What should he have said instead? "MOTHER-F##KER!"; "Ahhhhhh! F#CK ME!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I was very bored by the Obi-Wan/Grevious chase scene. There was no excitement to it at all. Best scene of the film imo, was the Opera scene. Palpatine owns it, and the deep bass noises coming from the Opera are so forboding that it gave me goosebumps.
May 21, 2005, 7:49 p.m. CST
This movie sucked. It didn't evoke even 1% of the emotional response in me that LOTR did. I'm just fucking glad it's over and we never have to see another piece of Lucas-turd ever again.
May 21, 2005, 7:55 p.m. CST
And there are a LOT of idiots to go around in America...
May 21, 2005, 7:58 p.m. CST
by Shawn F.
This movie was great fun. Haters, not only do I hope that Lucas has raped your childhood yet again, but I also hope he wiped his dick on your mother's curtains after he's taken it out of your whiny asses.
May 21, 2005, 8:04 p.m. CST
Jeez, I remember the last 20 minutes of false endings during Return of the King. I just wanted it to be over. I wanted so much more (in a good way) after Sith ended... I fackin' loved it this way and that. I will be seeing this multiple times.
May 21, 2005, 8:04 p.m. CST
And I only went that once because my mates insisted and I was still morbidly curious about it. Then again, I'm occasionally morbidly curious about being rammed in the anus, but somehow manage to resist that experience, so I'm sure I'll resist going to see this tripe again.
May 21, 2005, 8:05 p.m. CST
Someone once said that what you see on the screen is canon and in the books fiction. With that in mind, in the novelization of Sith, Palpatine reveals he is the apprentice that kills his master, Darth Plagueis just before Anakin catches on that he's Darth Sidous. And its more than obvious that Palatine influenced the midi-chlorians to "create" Anakin. As for Pamd
May 21, 2005, 8:07 p.m. CST
Shawn, there's a better method... Squeeze the ass cheeks together as you withdraw... At least YOU'LL be squeaky clean.
May 21, 2005, 8:16 p.m. CST
by The Heathen
and don't we always? The attack onn the second death star was better to me because it felt like everyone was involved. I wish there was some more filler dog fight scenes, just to help with the scale of the battle. I wanted more grit in the lightsaber fights, and they could have been longer too. Kit Fisto should have held out just a second longer. The score should have picked up more when Mace is about to kill Palpatine like in ROTJ when Vader was contemplating whether to help Luke or not. The Jedi could have lasted longer when they were turned on, or 'sensed' a disturbence in the force. That's just a long time fans rant. But I can say that this is the first prequel that I've wanted to find out about everthing that went on in the background. Al the Baron Papanoida, Mon Mothma and the formation of the Rebels, Qui-Gon teaching Yoda, and so on. So overall I really liked it. In typical AICN fashion I want to close by saying that anyone that thinks having Johnny Knoxville play Han Solo in a 'remade' trilogy should never reproduce or give advice or exist for that matter - sorry. That's all...move along.
May 21, 2005, 8:22 p.m. CST
I was kidding on that, but not about Hayden palying Luke. Lucas WILL finally remake the OT, just wait. He has some wierd hatred for the OT, and the only way he'll be happy is by redoing them completely.
May 21, 2005, 8:25 p.m. CST
He said Fox will definitely put "enourmous pressure" on Lucas and his "deputies" to continue the films. He did not say Fox would make them themselves. I have no problem believing Fox executives will do their best to convince Lucas and his apprentices into doing another trilogy.
May 21, 2005, 8:36 p.m. CST
"uh, perhaps you should seek professional help?" Are you somehow suggesting that homosexuals automatically need psychiatric help?
May 21, 2005, 8:38 p.m. CST
Chewbroccoli at length went into the differences between the book vs the movie, implying the book was somehow better. Oddly, every scene he discusses is in the film, and the dialog quoted is thematicly the same, and often, the last sentence (the summation of dialog or scene) is identical to what appears in the film. More dialog is not better dialog. Palpatine in the film DOES have a conversation with Anikin saying his revenge is justified. Palpatine DOES reveal he know's of the Tuscan Raider slaughter. The Jedi Counsil Does explain their motivation for having Anikin spy on Palpapine. Anikin DOES accuse Obi of turning Padme against him. The additional dialog in the book is not only implied in the film, but would be redundant if included. It's only in the book to fill pages devoid of images. The films dialog is pointed and Concise, not Bad. And Obi Won having the higher ground and saying is not "silly", but poetic. Rich complex visuals with clear, to the point dialog anyone from any nation or background can comprehend. Do you dialog-haters actually want longer, boring speeches?
May 21, 2005, 8:42 p.m. CST
Thought it was awful. Just awful. Only moment that I liked was after the helmet dropped on Vader's head, there was the first breath. And then he screamed, "Noooooo!" And, officially, Star Wars is done for me. That was it. Done. I will always love the OT, but I'm going to pretend that the prequels never happened. They have only taken away from what was a great trilogy of movies. I don't own any of the preqeuls and I will not ever buy any of the prequels. I'm just numb at the sheer awfulness of Phantom Menace, AOTC and ROTS. I really wish they had never gone back. Mr. Lucas, thanks for your original vision, it was a tremendous influence on my life: I can't agree with any of your choices since the relase of ROTJ, and I'm now stepping away. Good luck, and I hope you leave Star Wars alone from this point on.
May 21, 2005, 8:45 p.m. CST
And the film holds up okay to repeat viewings, however knowing what was to come did leave me waiting for the next action scene at times. My favourite bit out of the whole thing was General Grevious's Uni-Cycle Gyro thingy, brought a huge smile to my face every time it was on screen or did something or made a sound, man that thing looked cool, Where can I get one?. As for what I would have liked to have been better/different, well I don't like the Droid doctor "she's lost the will to live" shit, To me it looked like Vader did more than just Force Choke her, it looked like he drained her life. I also didn't like Thunderbird Puppet looking Vader construction or the Frankenstein movement, Vader first words "whats happened to Padme?" Just sounds plain Wrong Wrong Wrong. And the Noooooooo was probably the overall worst moment in the movie. Not seeing Qui Gon got me pissed first time around but I've got over it, maybe it would have been a bit too much. Overall I love the film and Lucas has done a very good job,especially considering that the publics expectations were so high and the overall difficulty of Bridging a gap between the other 2 prequels and a film made almost 30 years ago. Whilst viewing "A New Hope" on Thursday night I found myself watching with fresh eyes, Vader vs Obi Wan meant more to me than it had ever meant before. Also most of the additional CGI added in 97 worked very well to disguise the movies age and keep the continuity. I can't wait to see what Lucas comes up with for the TV series? Fringe characters eh?
May 21, 2005, 8:47 p.m. CST
by fried samurai
I watched this right after UNLEASHED which i thought was a pretty cool little flick.ROTS wasnt as bad as people make it out to be,in fact it was head and shoulders above the first two prequels which isnt really saying much.I dont see how people can call this a masterpiece though, that should be reserved for films like RAGING BULL.Just my opinion...peace
May 21, 2005, 8:51 p.m. CST
Maybe instead of having screenings for celebrities Lucas should have test screenings for his audience? It seems there is such a clear consensus and where certain elements fell short. Sounds like the novels did tell a more complete story and I wouldn't be surprised if the DVD with additional scenes is more satisfying.
May 21, 2005, 8:52 p.m. CST
There are a bunch of assholes here who just want to shit on everything. What? This is what? Ain't it cool news? Oh, right, yeah, the assholes are here. The pussies are on Fark. Don't mind me, I'm just being a dick. ...assholes.
May 21, 2005, 9:07 p.m. CST
All films should not be made by audience consensus. Leave that to Ron Howard and Brian Grazier who make popular crap like Apollo 13 and the Grinch with the help of many audience test screenings. Lucas should be applauded for making popular ART and telling a compelling story in his own UNIQUE fashion. His films cannot be immitated and are truly beyond compare.
May 21, 2005, 9:08 p.m. CST
I thought certain scenes were better executed in text than on screen. The main point I was trying to convey was that the pacing was off in the movie. As I said earlier, "points 'a' 'b' 'c' 'd' were all great, but the journey/pacing between was rushed and not fleshed out enough because too much was left to be crammed into ROTS." I liked ROTS, just felt that it was hurt by poor planning of the prior two movies. ROTS felt like a 3-4 hour long story compressed into 2 hrs 20 minutes.
May 21, 2005, 9:15 p.m. CST
by George Newman
He looked down and laughs at yoda, "Hee hee!--Whoa!" as he almost slips. I laughed
May 21, 2005, 9:18 p.m. CST
I am sick of the people on this site talking smack about ROTS. This movie was the best of all 6. I keep hearing this crap about "the acting is wooden" and "the dialogue is bad". Okay, if you are going to insult it at least don't use the same lines I've already read from every other person hating on this movie. Also, would someone explain to me how A New Hope's dialogue was supposed to be so much better than ROTS. Back to my original point. Great battles, great FX, really good story, and yes-good acting make a freaking awesome movie; not to mention that it tied everything together as best as I could have hoped for. George Lucas by making ROTS has now gained what Anakin obtained in ROTJ, Redemption.
May 21, 2005, 9:19 p.m. CST
May 21, 2005, 9:21 p.m. CST
by Boris the Blade
C'mon, just throw on the other 6 why doncha? We all know it's de ultimate eeeeevil....sigh.
May 21, 2005, 9:22 p.m. CST
GOOOOOOD! Who cares about the rest...palpatine is worth the price of admission.
May 21, 2005, 9:28 p.m. CST
Why is homosexuality so prevalent in the animal kingdom if sex is only meant for procreation?
May 21, 2005, 9:28 p.m. CST
by Big Goozoo
That should shut up the naysayers. How dare you mock the Fist?
May 21, 2005, 9:30 p.m. CST
May 21, 2005, 9:30 p.m. CST
Yes. I agree some of ROTS could have been included in Clones, both films would have benefited. I'll get in trouble saying this, but Menace is perfect as is. It's a great introduction to a nine year old boy and a fairy-tale galaxy filled with princesses and knights and creatures, all living a naive existence. There's an innocense to it all that perfectly sets up the treachery to come. The increasingly frantic pacing of Clones and now Sith dramatically set up a New Hope. I was left exhausted after ROTS, and watching not only Anikin, but the whole Jedi order and really the entire universe implode...what better way to draw focus, and let us breath a bit, as we narrow it down to meet this kid trapped on this little moisture farm, unaware of this giant fractured universe. But yeah, it was a lot of movie to pack into two and a half hours.
May 21, 2005, 9:35 p.m. CST
Why doesn't Lucas just produce the darn things and let a more "legit" director take the reins. (not a chance, I'm sure) Frank Darabont or Ridley Scott maybe?
May 21, 2005, 9:41 p.m. CST
May 21, 2005, 9:43 p.m. CST
Uhh...so how do horrible men become horrible men? Before your knees jerk, think about your response...
May 21, 2005, 9:47 p.m. CST
Like anything Lucas has backed since "Raiders", I have mixed emotions. I have to say that when the end credits rolled, I was feeling pretty good about the film. I can not excuse some awful missteps but the overall impact was strong, dramatic and refreshingly adult. The missteps are plenty: The reason Anakin turns to the dark side is limp and abrupt. He so believes a dream he's having about Padme's death that he can be talked into killing children? Huh? It needs a lot more finessing than that and Lucas wasted his time and our by vomiting on four hours of prequel time (Menace/Clones) and not trying to plant the right seeds for this story point. The Jedi being killed off should be a centerpiece. This is the mother of all betrayals in the saga. It's handled in a flurry of activity with no personal touches to make it affecting. The emperor looked positively silly in the latex makeup. He desperately needs that hood to hide that prosthetic work. (the lighting was all wrong too - How about a few shadows to give him a little mystery?? He looked lit by headlights. Tattersal sucks) There's a stretch about twenty minutes into the film (after Palpatine is rescued) that plods along. People talk about doing something in a few minutes and then we see them go and do the thing they talked about doing a few minutes ago. It was so weak. The lightsaber battles were unclear, cluttered and lacked basic structure. The fight choregraher on 'Sith' tsked about the light saber duels in Episodes IV, V and VI but at least they felt emotional and you could follow them. I hate the lizard Obi Wan travels around on. It doesn't feel 'Star Wars', more like some dime store science fiction novel. (there used to be a difference between the two) And of course, Vader's lame few lines at the end and him stumbling off the medical table. It's so undignified and unintentionally funny. This is what you had us wait two and a half movies for?? Lucas is so out of touch that he must now rely on everyone to keep him from stabbing the series in the back. With all of that said, I still enjoyed much of it. I remember hating 'Menace' and thinking 'Clones' was talky and boring. I didn't feel nearly as let down as I did then. I know I liked the movie better Thursday night but things are nagging on me now and are keeping me from respecting a lot of the approach Lucas took.
May 21, 2005, 9:50 p.m. CST
by Billy Ho
and it made me laugh, like lots of other parts in the movie.
May 21, 2005, 9:57 p.m. CST
by Billy Ho
I can deal with the other cheesy lines and acting, its a SW flick. But this should've been a classic, tragic moment in cinematic history. Instead, it looked like it was from "Spaceballs" (like a few scenes, honestly). Huge disappointment. I hope that shit gets fixed by the DVD release. I'm kinda expecting it to.
May 21, 2005, 10 p.m. CST
Loved the film. Made me squirt man tears. Saw with my friends, as should always be. As per the Vader scream: any Faustian interpretation MUST include that NOOOO. Ani made a pact with the devil, went to hell to see it through, and ended up losing and trapped in slavery forever. Dope.
May 21, 2005, 10:05 p.m. CST
I'm not a hater, and I've been looking forward to this movie for a couple years. I love all the Star Wars movies. I will say that anyone that says ROTS is the best of the 6 does not share the same opinion as myself. I defend 1 and 2 conatantly. Jar Jar doesn't bother me. He was put in the movie TO bother everyone he's around. That's why he's there most of the time. And to make a big mistake in the senate. But that's secondary. Anyway, about Episode III... This is why I didn't LOVE LOVE LOVE it. When you finish a story in the middle, you are going to lose a lot of the mystery to the film. There was not one battle that we all did not know what was going to happen to some degree. We know Yoda won't die. We know Palpatine won't die. We know Obi Wan won't die or be hurt. It's cool to watch, but we've all seen about 10 light saber battles now. So now we have to watch about 3 or 4 more annnnnnnnnnnnd we know how it's going to end before it even begins. Don't get me wrong, I still appreciate the entertainment value of the visuals and everything that is cool about the movie. BUT, there were only a couple of things that really made me go "Ahhhhhh... That's why that is..." For example the rumors that Anakin went around and hunted down all the Jedi. Nope, mostly the clones did that work. I do have a question for someone that may know the answer. It seemed that in Episodes 1 and 2, when they showed Darth Sideous on the holographic images, he was ugly and disfigured. My friend thinks that he was always that way, and the whole battle against Mace was an act to get Anakin to turn. He used this as an excuse to explain his actual hideous look and the senators look was really a cover up. He thinks he's very very old. Is this true?
May 21, 2005, 10:06 p.m. CST
I think being snatched away from your mother by a wierd religious cult at age 9 only to have her kidnapped and killed in your absence, resulting in mass revenge killing...seems like well planted seeds. His "abrupt" turn started then...continued when he confronts Dooku. He's smart enough to realize very quickly he has no option than to bow to Sidious. And what dignified words would you have Vader say just after being made into this monster? I think his "lame few lines" punctuate the tradgedy and are echoed in Padmes final words.
May 21, 2005, 10:24 p.m. CST
Ummmm, I don't in his eyes Palpatine failed him. In his eyes, he killed Padame. That's why he blames himself and becomes the REAL asshole we all love in 4, 5, and 6. Come on guys, don't bash before thinking things out a little bit okay?
May 21, 2005, 10:32 p.m. CST
I've seen Spiderman 1 and 2 in the theaters. I own both on DVD and watched them both pretty recently... I think they're both really good. Well made movies. Not at all boring.
May 21, 2005, 10:38 p.m. CST
Star Wars owns and your little boring sleepy theater rant won't change a damn thing, haha!
May 21, 2005, 10:38 p.m. CST
There was no way you could be wrong about your prediction. Just by looking at the last star wars openings you would've been right? That's like me saying McDonalds down the Street is guaranteed to sell at least 10 Big Macs today! YOU SEE!!! I'm a genius! They sold 256 Big Macs! Come on now... Don't make predictions that everyone knows will come to be and act like you're a jedi yourself! LOL
May 21, 2005, 10:40 p.m. CST
Thos flopping movies were funny. Star Wars saves the summer!
May 21, 2005, 10:41 p.m. CST
who wouldn't recognize homages to literature and classic film if they were labelled clearly. They don't get any of the philosophical or psychological points, either (like "balance in the force" meaning the ellimination of BOTH the Jedi Order's monastic moral absolutes and the Sith's unchecked greed and selfishness, or the ideals of codependence). EVERY "plot hole" has been addressed in the series, and it only takes a keen eye to spot the answers that make these "holes" go away. It's clear that half the people here are either inexperienced, impatient kids, adults with ADD, or just plain stupid. I miss the old days of AICN when there weren't near as many trolls to ruin the experience.
May 21, 2005, 10:45 p.m. CST
Listen, I'm a fan - i'm not going to list my qualifications here... becuase I think visting this website and posting on talkback is evidence enough! Listen, I'm a fan - i'm not going to list my qualifications here... because I think visiting this website and posting on talkback is evidence enough! Anyway. Here is my opinion on a number of threads here 1.) inconstancies from the original trilogy (i.e obiwan not recognizing the droids)... so what; you just have to accept some of those. Actually I thought ROTS's major strength was trying to all together well. 2.) repeated viewing make it better. I agree with this; having seen it twice now. I think the reason is that upon repeated viewings you associate the film more with TOS, and less with the first two terrible films. Thus, any emotional impact that you feel is generated 'retro actively' and does not build at all from phantom or AOTC. 3.) Reason for anakins turn. Although I agree that its a clever narrative twist having the reason for the turn be a 'good' one. It dosen't really gel well with what we know of the dark side. Frankly I would have bought luke turning to the dark side at the end of jedi more than I was convinced of anakins turn. On this score I think there is partly acting to blame, but I think its mostly script problems. SO much wasted time in the first two, and characterizations that don't build to anything. i.e Anakin
May 21, 2005, 10:47 p.m. CST
May 21, 2005, 10:49 p.m. CST
by zikade zarathos
Homosexual behavior happens in nature all the time, and it should take anyone a few seconds on Google to prove (here's ONE such example, there's hundreds more -- <http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html> ... A recent recipient of the Nobel Prize won it for their investigative research about homosexual, NECROPHILIAC behavior in ducks and other animals .... (http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/research/story/0,9865,1432991,00.html) ... Nature is filled to the brim with bizarre sexual stories, but all of this isn't even the point. You can't look to nature for rules on how to live in modern society. If so, I could pick any animal at random and say, let's live like that! Let's have females eat the males immediately after intercourse! Let's abandon our children in the woods three days after delivery! Let's eat our weaker offspring and kill the ones who get too strong! See my point? Read a book before you come in here and start gay-bashing, moron.
May 21, 2005, 10:49 p.m. CST
May 21, 2005, 10:50 p.m. CST
by zikade zarathos
By your logic, males and females who, due to medical problems can't have children, are also living in sin. Our when a guy has anal sex with a woman. Or... you get my drift.
May 21, 2005, 10:51 p.m. CST
May 21, 2005, 10:55 p.m. CST
by John Anderton
You guys know the one... the "Jabba Slave Girl" Jedi chick, wearing leather straps, that gets shot in the back by the Clone Troopers. We see her for about 10 seconds, but damn, she gave Padme a run for her money in the bone-o-meter department. Cen't wait to get a few screencaps from a Blue Ray DVD. // Oh, and about the movie - I liked it. It was better than the first two prequels and was almost on par with "Jedi." However, I can't help but think that this prequel trilogy should have gone a lot differently with the plot and characters. Lucas has been quoted as saying that when he did the treatment for the prequels, that 60% of what he wrote ended up in "Sith" and the other 40% was divided between "Menace" and "Clones." Basically what happened was that Menace and Clones had to be padded out with a bunch of filler (characters, events, etc.) while Sith got crammed. What should have happened was a 33/33/34 proposition between all the prequel movies. I am thinking the Wookies should have been introduced in the 2nd film, or perhaps the first film and used instead of the Gungans and developed them as a more tragic race, making them being wiped out in "Sith" all the more gut wrenching. Jar Jar should have been a sort of outcast rogue, similar to Solo or Lando. He could have kept his comedic atributes, but tempered them with a kind of malaise or melancholy. That's the kind character Binks should have been. Darth Maul should have survived Menace, providing the "Good Guys" with more of a constant, fleshed out, "in-your-face" threat that the prequels lacked. We should have SEEN Qui Gon's ghost instead of being told about him. etc. etc. // I do believe a lot of things were done excellently over the course of the trilogy, namely Palpatine's rise to power. Man, who didn't get chills while Palpatine related the story about the Sith master to Anakin at the "opera"? The look on the man's face made one believe he was talking about slaying his own master in his sleep. Creepy. I truly felt a sense of loss as the Jedi were being gunned down, but could have felt more if the "better side" of the Jedi Order was fleshed out better in the previous 2 flicks - the compassion and justice "central to a Jedi's life." We saw precious little of that in the preceeding two movies. Loved how Lucas incorporated more than just humans into the Jedi Order. There's a multi-cultural aspect to Lucas' films that I appreciate. // So, all that in mind, I'd rate the movies in the following way: Empire - 8.5, Star Wars - 8.0, Jedi/Sith - 7.7, Clones - 7.0, Menace - 6.1 (barely passing).
May 21, 2005, 11:01 p.m. CST
George Lucas has made this world too big. Outside all those huge windows are thousands, hell millions, of ships and transports wizzing about. They never stop. Do they have any idea what the hell's going inside these rooms and on these spaceships? Even at the critical moment in ROTS, when it feels like the whole world should have stopped with the weight of what's happening, those transports are still zipping back and forth. The Republic has fallen, Empire has risen, and the Jedi are slaughtered. One question--has anyone bothered to tell the people outside?
May 21, 2005, 11:16 p.m. CST
http://darthno.ytmnd.com/ Click it, you know it to be true. PS - movie rawks.
May 21, 2005, 11:28 p.m. CST
by Rant Breath
Yoda = Ralph Nader. They both went into exile from powerful forces for the sake of values.
May 21, 2005, 11:29 p.m. CST
I was thinking it would have been better if Padme had a real threat of death, rather than just a dream vision, like maybe he has the dreams but then eventually she really does have problems and falls into a coma, then he would have more of a sense of urgency in saving the emperor and it would have made you feel for him a little more. I don't know I guess it would goof it up later taking her out of critical parts, but he could still be made to think her death was his fault some way. I really liked it overall and I bought his turn with all the fear of death and just being a punk with emotional control problems anyway, and just wanting to be more than normal jedi and beleiving his own hype, but there could have been more fear/urgency added to where he had to do something
May 21, 2005, 11:32 p.m. CST
When I first walked out of the theatre upon seeing ROTS there were only three scenes that jumped out in my mind as horrible. The first scene was Anikin and Padme's "You're so beutiful" scene. How can great actors let Lucas get away with such bad dialouge in three consecutive films? Every other romantic scene worked though and was much better than AOTC. The second bad scene came much later during Anikin and Obi's fight. I thought the fight scene went on too long when they began fighting on the floating platforms. That was uneccesary and the special effects there did not look too great. There was also some bad dialouge in this scene as well. "From my point of view it is the jedi who are wrong!" The third scene of course is the already infamous "NOOOOOOOOOOO!" scene with Vader. As soon as that scene happened I could have swore I heard the sound of a million fanboys cringing at once. I agree with another post on here that that could be one of the worst mistakes in film history. Lucas does not seem to know the meaning of the word subtlety and seems to think that the viewers are idiots at times. Doesn't he know that emotion and even silence can explain things better and have more impact than line after line of dialouge? Supposed problems that other fans have pointed out I don't have a problem with. I thought Grevious was awesome and I don't think the coughing had to be explained. I did not think that Grevious was a wuss, simply that he had met his match fighting against Obi and Anikin. I thought the acting overall was ten times better from both Anikin and Padme and the pacing was much better than in AOTC. Also, I think Grevious and the Wookies were neccesary in the film because they were part of the reason that Yoda and Obi were able to survive. Also, i thought Hayden's performance was simply awesome and he did a great job showing his turn to the darkside. To me, it was beleivable. Highlights from the film for me were the entire first scene, the killing off of the Jedi,Yoda's battle with the Emporer in the Senate and Padme's confrontation with Anikin on the lava planet. As for comments about the prequal trilogy as a whole. After first viewing ROTS, I instantly thought it was the best of the prequals. However, the more I think about it I actually think one could argue now that Phantom Menace is the best of the PT - as funny as that may sound. Overall, I think Phantom Menace has the best story and the best villian in Darth Maul. Some have argued that Maul was wasted and was not on screen enough, however, isn't that why we all love Boba Fett so much? He was cool and mysterious, just like Maul. AOTC is simply horrible except for the Yoda fight scene with Tyranus and seems to have no real narrative - just a bunch of random stuff happening that is either ridiculous or forgetable and way too much political talk. Right now though, I have to give props to ROTS. The good outweighs the bad. Though, i think that the PT has sadly tainted the OT.
May 21, 2005, 11:34 p.m. CST
You seem to have a fixation on homosexuality. What's that all about? You're a muscle-bound giant of a man, aren't you? P.S. "Power Metal" sucks. So do the Broncos.
May 21, 2005, 11:35 p.m. CST
May 21, 2005, 11:37 p.m. CST
Hayden Christianson = Elizabeth Berklery...This movie was just plain awful, Burnt Grilled CHEESE made with Velveeta! At least the old Star Wars were good cheesy fun, everyone in this one takes themselves too seriously! Gawd, Natalie Portman looked like she was over it, her acting was like "Thank God This is the final one, let me just make this line delivery and I can go home.." There were more laughs in this one then Kung Fu Hustle, unintentional laughther that is...I saw it twice, thinking maybe the 2nd time I would like it, but nah, it's a piece of high tech garbage then people are deluding themselves into liking...I cannot belive the postive reviews for this one...PAINFUL!! NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! cheesiest moment in movie history!!
May 21, 2005, 11:38 p.m. CST
by Darth Maui
Addition? I think the word Harry is looking for is "edition."
May 21, 2005, 11:41 p.m. CST
by Darth Maui
"Some have argued that Maul was wasted and was not on screen enough, however, isn't that why we all love Boba Fett so much? He was cool and mysterious, just like Maul." I love how bashers will say, "Don't show us too much of Boba Fett! It takes away his mystery!" and on the other hand they will say, "Lucas sucks! He didn't tell us enough about Darth Maul!!"
May 21, 2005, 11:56 p.m. CST
Sidious refers to Yoda as "my little... green... friend". Ranking it up there with Vader's in-his-face "General Veers, prepare your men".
May 22, 2005, midnight CST
Obi-Wan says "only Sith belive in absolutes." Isn't it the Jedi who have a narrow conception of right and wrong? Isn't it the Sith that believe in an expanded view of morality? Despite Lucas' injection of his own brand of goofy Zen the movie itself was a fitting end and a good tie together for the whole series. I watched A NEW HOPE today and somehow it made more sense than it ever did. Maybe it's just me.
May 22, 2005, 12:06 a.m. CST
Obi-Wan's statement shows the hypocrisy of the Jedi, and that they are as narrowminded as the Sith. Althought the Sith see themselves as liberated, their embracing of the Dark Side fuels their negative energy and creates a kind of emotional vortex, and leads them to more anger, jealousy, child-murdering, and Cingular commercials.
May 22, 2005, 12:06 a.m. CST
by Hoke Mosley
It makes a lot of sense. TOTS rocks, btw. I just watched the other two movies (hate the first, 50/50 on clones) and I found something weird. Yoda says the Sith have been extinct for a 1000 years. That also points to the fact that Palpatine was a pupil of the Sith he tells Anakin about. BUT Anakin is suposed to bring balance to the force by killing the Sith, right? SO, in episode one, if they think the Sith are extinct, why do they give a damm to this prophecy anyway?? any thoughts??
May 22, 2005, 12:13 a.m. CST
Lucas' direction to Portman went something like this. "Now, I want you to sit on this couch and complain and look worried." A few scense later. "Now, you are sitting in this chair looking worried." A few scenes later "Now, you are looking at the senate looking worried." A few scense later "You are sitting in the spaceship looking worried." His diretions to Anakin. Fun movie, better than the PM and AOC, but inferior to OT. Characters weren't interesting; they were flat--bad acting and bad dialogue. In the OT the main characters were ones we could identify with. The only one I could really care about was Obi Wan. He had the best dialogue and was the best actor. Palpatine was second. One last thing, didn't Leia say she remembered her mother in ROTJ? How could she?
May 22, 2005, 12:18 a.m. CST
"didn't Leia say she remembered her mother in ROTJ? How could she?" Leia thinks that her parents are Senator Organa and his wife.
May 22, 2005, 12:21 a.m. CST
Powermetal1, you wrote, "I do not accept [homosexuals] as normal and I don't fucking have to. It's my opinion and fuck anyone that doesn't like it." All right. It's your opinion, that's cool. Just don't let all those facts about homosexuality occuring in non-human organisms get in the way of your very, very important opinion. Have fun disbelieving reality. Oh, and how many times were you raped by your priest?
May 22, 2005, 12:23 a.m. CST
May 22, 2005, 12:28 a.m. CST
by Honky Tonk
So, by PM1's standards, Titanic is the best movie ever and the LOTR trilogy is better than Star Wars. HAHAHAHAHAHA
May 22, 2005, 12:29 a.m. CST
I'm sorry, Powermetal1. I didn't mean to provoke you. That comment about your priest raping you... pure fiction, right? So sorry. It must've been difficult for you to reconcile those unspeakable acts with the so-called normalcy of your life... I really do sympathize. But maybe the reason you're so against homosexuality is because you secretly liked what the priest did to you. It wasn't your fault, so at some point I hope you find peace.
May 22, 2005, 12:30 a.m. CST
by New in NY
"From my point of view, the Jedi are evil." Aw man, that just rocks. I can't even tell you why ... it's not exactly a stupid line. "Stupid" doesn't quite capture it. Have you ever seen Futurama? The last episode? When the Robot Devil gets all pissed because Fry's opera dialogue is too literal? He says: "THE CHARACTERS CAN'T JUST SAY EXACTLY HOW THEY'RE FEELING! I AM VERY ANGRY ABOUT THIS!" It's like that, but even fucking cooler, because Lucas was doing it for real!
May 22, 2005, 12:31 a.m. CST
It's not only the gay thing, I've read all your posts and you are one sick motherfucker. You need to get help. Or go to some hate site where people think you're clever. Here, talking about movies, you're just fucking scary.
May 22, 2005, 12:33 a.m. CST
by New in NY
I truly believe that Star Wars now exists in the same "universe" as Futurama, if only because both stories involve robots built with no apparent purpose except to exhibit annoying human-like habits. Like those "Three Stooges" droids that appear everywhere in the new crapisodes (LOVE that term, by the way) - what, were a bunch of programmers in the Star Wars galaxy saying to themselves, "Now, make sure that this robot slips and falls a lot, and this one makes really dumb comments all the time ... oh, and we need to make sure they make really poor judgments all the time, react slowly to threats, and use cheesy slang, like 'blast 'em!'" Don't even try comparing them to C-3PO. It actually makes sense that he's given a "personality" of sorts because he's meant to interact with humans on a personal level - those "attack droids" (or whatever) were programmed to be incompetent!
May 22, 2005, 12:36 a.m. CST
by Honky Tonk
C'mon PowerMetal1! Answer me! Is Titanic better than Empire? Well, is it?
May 22, 2005, 12:38 a.m. CST
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1061508,00.html. The article states, "Writing in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, they reported that gay men don't respond to the chemicals the same way that straight men do. "It clearly substantiates the idea that there's a biological substrate for sexual orientation," says Dean Hamer, a geneticist at the National Institutes of Health and the author of Science of Desire: The Gay Gene and the Biology of Behavior (Simon & Schuster; 272 pages). "This is a highly significant result."" There's your proof. Or are you going to argue semantics again?
May 22, 2005, 12:39 a.m. CST
Well, before I saw the movie but after the trailer, I was thinking that Palpatine was setting up Anakin to think the Jedi were going to overthrow him, leak to the Jedi that he was the Sith Lord. When they went to arrest him, Anakin would have been conveniently arranged to be nearby and thinking this was the supposed coup, end up attacking the Jedi trying to arrest Palpatine. Then from there, somehow convincing him that the Jedi had been misleading him about the Sith and they were really different in some way from how he'd been lead to believe. From there, it lead into getting him to join the Sith that way.
May 22, 2005, 12:39 a.m. CST
The reason why scientific arguments never use the terms "is" or "was" because the first lesson taught in any area of modern science is that there is no such thing as a scientific fact. Scientists rely on observation and documentation. A theory can never be proven, only disproven. Looking for facts in this discussion is not ging to happen. But when a Nobel-prize winning individual witnesses a male duck performing a sexually aggressive act on a lifeless male duck... Jesus, who would make shit like THAT up?
May 22, 2005, 12:49 a.m. CST
It hampered Ian McDirmaind (or however the fuck you spell his name)'s performance, which was by far the best in the movie.
May 22, 2005, 12:51 a.m. CST
am all for homosexual necrophilia in the animal kingdom. Think of the ratings a show like that would get. Fuck "The Simple Life". Next on Fox: "When Animals Have Sex With Dead Animals" Nielsen Ratings, throught the frickin' roof!
May 22, 2005, 12:52 a.m. CST
but I was bored and ended up reading most of the talk back. Hey, the entertainment value can not be beat. Anyhoo, I just wanted to weigh in on the 'why was Luke placed in such an obvious location as a child' line of discussion. I understand why some people keep going back to the 'Vadar did not know his children were alive so why would he be looking' aspect of things, but that kind of misses the point. Vadar being on the alert would not be a factor when considering where to hide the kids away. Clearly, he did not have a clue his children were alive, at least not between what transpires in ROTS and ESB. That said, it was a pretty big advantage for Obi and Yoda, right? One would think they would go to great lengths to make sure Vadar never finds out so much as a whiff about his children being alive. But no, what do they do? They set him up with Anakin's family, not only that, but in the last place his mother lived, with the names Padme selected AND with his damn surname. Come on. That's like saying, oh. This serial killer is after me. Instead of hiding myself really well, I will stand out in the open with a big ass X flashing over my head and HOPE that he overlooks me. My point is, it is exceedingly stupid because they are, in effect, relying on Vadar to keep Luke's identity secret. They are relying on his actions (or the lack thereof) to keep this boy who is their last hope (one of them) alive and well instead of being on the affirmative and locking him away somewhere. That is why it makes zero sense. It has nothing to do with whether or not Vadar was looking for his kids or not, but it has everything to do with the decision of two men who are, arguably, the wisest fuckers in the universe. Why would they take such a risk? And make no mistake, it was a risk. What if some random person mentioned some Skywalker kid who flies really well and Vadar just happens to overhear? Point again being that knowing they can exert little control over the future and what random information might fall into Vadar's lap, why take the risk? Also, given the fact that Anakin was trained at an older age (despite the reservations of many) and it eventually led to him becoming a Sith... I just find it odd that they would do the same with his son. Learn from your mistakes, much? It can be argued that, going along with the 'Anakin brought balance to the force by destroying the two old factions on both ends' that were set in 'absolute ways' (a shaky argument, but let's assume), it can also be argued that they wanted Luke to have attachments and emotions etc. But for one, he could form attachments with anyone, as evidenced with Leia. Putting him with his father's family in such a risky location was not necessary. Also, Yoda would not have been all grumpy and talking about Luke being too old to train, because why the hell would he bitch about something that was part of his master plan to begin with? All in all, sorry to say it and I do love the OT and can salvage something from the prequels (a little something... not much) but it really does suggest that GL is making this up as he goes along. I don't know if many of you have written a chaptered story or hell, even attempted to write well, but I have. Several of my friends have. Any writer worth his or her salt does think about little links and ties such as this... and if he truly had it all set in his head years ago, he would have realized that things weren't adding up. And we are not talking about things that GL has completely ignored due to it being irrelevant to the story. This is not being nitpicky over something that doesn't matter. I am talking about glaring errors in logic in the meta, or main plot. *shrugs* He made it relevant and I mean, if I (and countless other fans) can sit here and see that it doesn't work, surely he can given all the damn money he gets from the movies?
May 22, 2005, 12:54 a.m. CST
Oh yeah, it's a SW talkback. i didn't think it inhibited his performance, but man, that transformation kinda freaked me out. Alright, it really freaked me out. He reminded me of Large Marge.
May 22, 2005, 12:54 a.m. CST
by Honky Tonk
I guess PowerMetal1 can't come up with a comeback to his own theory: that Titanic is better than Empire Strikes Back based soley on the box office.
May 22, 2005, 1:01 a.m. CST
WOOKIES > EWOKS BITCHES
May 22, 2005, 1:04 a.m. CST
I was waiting for the big moment when Palpatine pulls a Ceasar and declares himself Emperor for life. Never happened. However towards the end of the film people start referring to him sometimes as Chancellor, sometimes Emperor. Was something cut? When he declared the first Galactic Empire did his title just automatically change?
May 22, 2005, 1:11 a.m. CST
by John Anderton
No comments on my ideas. I feel thelove on this talkback. ;)
May 22, 2005, 1:14 a.m. CST
It was a surprise when Padme was pregers... So, if Anakin is the most powerful Jedi ever; he couldn't control when he jizzed? Padme had never heard of birth control? I bet she fucked that guy she talks about during AOTC, she met when she was in the young senators thing or something. blah
May 22, 2005, 1:15 a.m. CST
by Mr Bonefish
Darth Sidious pulls Anakin into the web by alluding to this life creating power...he never says that he has it mastered. Later, he tells Anakin that if they work together, they can figure out the secret, etc. Thus, he is not the creator of Anakin. Jeez.
May 22, 2005, 1:16 a.m. CST
Anyone else notice the stickers or notches on the side of Anakin's fighter when it crashed on Grevious's ship? Did he get a notch/sticker for every fighter he shot down? Is that very Jedi like?
May 22, 2005, 1:21 a.m. CST
Speaking of women...Where was Mon Mothma in the film? Are we to wait for the definitive Lucas-fied version that the fans want on DVD for the Mon Mothma scenes and more? I can't wait. Personally, I have to see it again so I can fully absorb it, but what I saw ROCKED. In the mean time I'll play some more of the ROTS game and reenact my own saber duels from the film. The game, BTW, does a pretty damn good job of summing up the whole film in between each level.
May 22, 2005, 1:22 a.m. CST
What the heck was Anakin and Palpatine watching during that scene? It was some sort of blobs with streamers going from blob to blob? Huh?
May 22, 2005, 1:27 a.m. CST
You know, I was told to check this site, I came on here just to see what kind of reviews there were, and what do I get? I get the biggest bunch of fuckin fags ever!!! Crying and bitching about dialogue in the movie, the way certain scenes looked or went down.
May 22, 2005, 1:27 a.m. CST
I agree with RicCage, though. The turn to the dark side DID NOT work. And the "Noooooooo!" at the end as Darth Vader was ridiculous. It should have gone, "Where's Padme?" "She's dead. You killed her Lord Vader." "Fine."
May 22, 2005, 1:27 a.m. CST
I like to put my nicely shaped lightsaber into women's asses--does that make me a filthy immoral faggot? You're a toad of the highest order.
May 22, 2005, 1:29 a.m. CST
Seriously, one talks back to Gen. Grevious (you're welcome), others are running away?! The battle droids seem sentient now... Huh?
May 22, 2005, 1:31 a.m. CST
May 22, 2005, 1:36 a.m. CST
by Honky Tonk
Powermetal1, you said a movie was better in everyone's eyes (and not just the makers') if it made a shitload of money. You said EVERYONE in the business does this, not just Lucas. And I think moviemaking has gone from a business into art (that is sometimes usurped by business pigs). I mean, Sgt. Pepper made music art; I'm sure the art of movies has had several of it's own Sgt. Pepper's. Star Wars is an example. It's not all business, you know
May 22, 2005, 1:41 a.m. CST
I don't think they hid Luke there knowing who he would eventually become, they just wanted him somewhere with family who would care about him. If they planned it that way they would have started training earlier etc, and it kinda ruins the randomness of the originals.
May 22, 2005, 1:42 a.m. CST
Why did Grevious have a cough? Why did he go from being so bad ass in the clone wars animated shorts on the cartoon channel to the character he was? Why does Obi Wan stick out his two fingers when he is about to fight? Couldn
May 22, 2005, 1:44 a.m. CST
It's obvious to me that you fucking people have nothing better to do than come here and post your bullshit opinions about a MOVIE! It's just a movie, just keep telling yourselves that. It's not a real world, you homos seem to criticize every goddamned line of the movie and go into so much detail about every scene and "If it were me, I would have done it this way". You know, if for nothing else, this has made me laugh. Laughing at how many worthless, lonely pieces of shit there really are in the world. I mean, Jesus Titty-Fucking Christ, have any of you ever actually seen a vagina? You fuckin homos just sit and bitch about movies. None of you have any talent, you just lash out at directors, actors, and complain about how shitty you think these movies are. Are all of you just mad that you will never be as talented as any of these people? Thank god this was a one time visit. Came here looking for reviews, got whiny bitch queers complaining and putting in their irrelevant two cents. Have nice lives, you unbelievably fucking stupid assholes! Later!
May 22, 2005, 1:49 a.m. CST
It seemed like Qui Gon was past his jedi prime, so is Obi Wan like as his prime?
May 22, 2005, 1:51 a.m. CST
The tatical screens when windu is speaking to Yoda and the other jedi via holovid, are almost the same as Star Wars. Enterprise could have learned a thing or two from how Ep 3 incorporated the tech of Ep 4.
May 22, 2005, 1:57 a.m. CST
Has George lowered expectations so much that something even remotely resembling an okay movie causes the Fanboys to spooge? There are so many awful, amateurish moments in this movie that it hardly makes getting to the few good bits worth it.
May 22, 2005, 2:01 a.m. CST
ninhead420 = too cool for school. Rock on cool guy!
May 22, 2005, 2:03 a.m. CST
Pull your cock out of your ass.
May 22, 2005, 2:08 a.m. CST
Seriously...Mace used the force in the last episode of the Clone Wars cartoon to try to rip Grievous a new one but he escaped with this injury that makes him cough. George Lucas said this himself.
May 22, 2005, 2:09 a.m. CST
It seems like the Emperor puts himself in a corner the second Anakin decides to show up. Is this all part of Palpatines game?
May 22, 2005, 2:19 a.m. CST
I'm not going to lie: the sight of Yoda cowering and defeated by the Emperor - forced to retreat from battle and flee into exile - was a traumatic experience for me. I've been trying to pick up the pieces ever since but to no avail. I think my childhood is dead. Thanks, Lucas.
May 22, 2005, 2:19 a.m. CST
Judging from your username I'm guessing you jack off to the Asimov robot novels.
May 22, 2005, 2:23 a.m. CST
You must have a tiny pecker then. tsk tsk.Can we all just stop talking about homo this and homo that. This is a Star Wars talkback. By the way, Yoda is an H'mo.
May 22, 2005, 2:23 a.m. CST
You haters paid money to see a movie you wanted to hate in the first place!
May 22, 2005, 2:30 a.m. CST
For me, it seemed the entire tone of the movie shifted when the Clone Troopers opened fire on Obi-Wan and he fell to the water below - he breaks through the surface and the music changes...from there, you know there's no going back. Tear-jerking moments include 1.) the slaughter of the Jedis at the ends of the Clone Troopers, 2.) Anakin's slaughter of the Younglings, 3.) Yoda defeated, 5.) Anakin force crushing Padme, 6.) Obi-Wan's desperate pleas during the final duel, 7.) Anakin's burning body and 8.) actually many more...Damn, I'm not going to pretend this movie doesn't have flaws - but I still think it's the most emotionally charged science fiction film of all time. I've never had a "popcorn movie" make me feel this much.
May 22, 2005, 2:33 a.m. CST
May 22, 2005, 2:36 a.m. CST
The funniest son of a bitch we've had on here for a while. All of you people taking it offensively are being idiots.
May 22, 2005, 2:36 a.m. CST
May 22, 2005, 2:37 a.m. CST
by Liberty Valance
Just as a colossal FUCK YOU to all these salad-tossing prequel haters and OT purists. I've even got the perfect scene: right when Lando makes his announcement for the citizens of Cloud City to flee, we cut to Jar Jar on a street corner who begins flailing wildly and sqealing "Oh moie moie, weesa in deep doo doo!" Then he begins to run off and trips over a cute little Ewok in a delightfully witty sight gag. Maybe then these cunty bashers would go kill themselves and spare the rest of the world their pathetic vitriol.
May 22, 2005, 2:46 a.m. CST
by Childe Roland
If you were driving your car and somebody in another car honked at you, what would you do?
May 22, 2005, 2:47 a.m. CST
by white owl
I'm a sad-ass 411 operator who makes 5 every couple weeks, and all I've been getting calls for is STAR WARS, STAR WARS, STAR WARS. And no they don't want movie showtimes, they want to friggin CONNECT to the theatre to see if it is sold out! These geeks don't understand the concept of multiple screens!! I try to explain to these people that every cinema I bring up in my directory has maybe four screens at least for SW, but no they're afraid its sold out. Their precious star warts might be sold out. Yeah right. It is making money no doubt but gimme a break. Whether going to see it midnight on Wednesday or Sunday afternoon, the movie experience is all the same. I just know I'll contribute to Lucas' 5-day opening B.O. like I have for the first two prequels.
May 22, 2005, 2:50 a.m. CST
I can't think of a witty come back.
May 22, 2005, 2:51 a.m. CST
by white owl
rofl, star warts.
May 22, 2005, 2:53 a.m. CST
Uh, you guys need to get a fuckin' life, it's just a movie
May 22, 2005, 2:55 a.m. CST
That guy was funny.
May 22, 2005, 3:04 a.m. CST
Fist off, I love this movie. The only major flaw, to me, is not so much Anakin's sudden turn, as much as as it is him killing the younglings. He turned to the dark side to save Padme. He was willing to do anything, and i can buy him doing almost anything, but for him to go so evil as to kill children goes too far. Even as the film progresses and you see him killing separatists, you see a tear in his eye, you see him conflicted by it ("I see the good in you, a conflict" ROTJ). But to kill children went too far, too fast. Without that scene, Anakin's turn works for me. But when he kills younglings, it is a powerful scene in terms as how far Anakin (Vader) is willing to go, but I don't think you need it. To me, Anakin does not truly turn until he sees Obi Wan in Mustafar and feels he has been betrayed by the woman he loves. Long story short, that one scene to me is the only major problem in the film. Other than that, I think it is fantastic. I hope there won't be any more episodes on film. Yes, Lucas did not do a great job with the prequel trilogy, by any means, but he finished it right with Revenge of the Sith, and unless someone can come up with a truly great story for a new trilogy, then it should end here.
May 22, 2005, 3:13 a.m. CST
I saw it and I liked it. Here's why. It is a horror movie... a sureal, campy horror movie. First off some background. I love the first two SW movies. E4 is a classic and it has aged well. E5 I fell in love with and saw again and again and again in the summer of 80 ( I was a 14 yr old with no real conection to the world around me at the time) E5 set up the promise for some real cool shit to come. See Gary Kurtz interview..... And then comes E6..... Not the worst movie ever - in fact it has none of the really truely bad scenes on display in Sith, but it also has none of the really great scenes in Sith either... Sith is a schitzo movie for sure. Lucas had the chance to keep going with the set up in Empire, but chose to make a disney like happy bland ending with Ewoks and all....... yawn. And Luke and Leia being brother and sister? Lame lame lame. Clunking weak plot device. doesn't flow naturally from the first two movies. Shifting paradigms without a clutch.... clunk clunk clunk ....We all know this. Still the movie has its moments and it does wrap things up without totally killing the series and disintigrating into a pile of poo. No he saved that fate, that stake in the heart, for the prequels..... BUT that's WHY I LIKE Sith! Even though Jedi wasn't bad, it took a potentially great series and brought it to a clumsy, unsatisfying end. Sith, on the other hand, takes a series that was going abso-fucking-lutley NO WHERE and moves it toward where it needed to go in the first place. Too little, too late, to be sure.... but man the movie has some passion and feeling to it! I also love the weird irony that Lucas has spent all the time since Jedi (including this one) making Kiddie friendly movies and then comes up with this really disturbing, un-Kiddie, shit at the end. Trauma to the masses! Trauma to the little ones!..... Love it! Anti-heros for the under 10 generation anyone? And the bad, poorly executed scenes in Sith just add to it. It makes Anakin's fall that much more weird and surreal. It's like "I'm Anakin Skywalker and my life is going to hell and it's so weird and so bad, I can't believe it. It's like like a BAD movie!" Truth is stranger than fiction. And make no mistake, I think the horror really comes through in the end! Cool cool cool. But so does the camp. I will see this movie again simply because I can't think of any recent movie that is so disturbing in parts and yet has such total camp value in others. Swinging from unintentional laughter to horror and back again. Great! Not what SW should have been, mind you, but a unique experience all the same. So here's to what could have been, but also to the best worst movie in a long time!
May 22, 2005, 3:26 a.m. CST
by Serious Black
In order from best to worst: A New Hope > Revenge of the Sith > The Empire Strikes Back > Attack of the Clones > The Phantom Menace > Return of the Jedi.
May 22, 2005, 3:27 a.m. CST
Oh. This is why I don't waste my time on this talkback.
May 22, 2005, 3:36 a.m. CST
But I guess I already have wasted by time on this talkback. But Serious, I wouldn't put Empire behind ANH or ROTS. Nor would I put ROTJ as the worst of Star Wars. But at least it's a discussion.
May 22, 2005, 3:38 a.m. CST
I think he's Positronic Cock...
May 22, 2005, 3:42 a.m. CST
"You are reckless!"
May 22, 2005, 3:43 a.m. CST
by andrew coleman
Is my only complaint. To all the extreme haters, not people with complaints just the haters, get the stick out of your ass and relax and have some fun watching movies. I mean goodness if you calm down you might like a movie once and a while. Also to note ROTS was better than ROTK which had the worse ending ever, even worse than "NOOOO!!!" is a bunch of hobbits bouncing and hugging on a bed. PS that green jedi chick who gets shot in the back is HOT. The tv series should just focus on her and the egg head guy if its gonna be based during the Clone Wars.
May 22, 2005, 3:45 a.m. CST
is Aayla Secura, and she's blue, not green. The egg head guy is Ki Adi Mundi. The TV series will be set between Episodes III & IV. The cartoon will be about the Clone Wars.
May 22, 2005, 3:48 a.m. CST
Good point about bad endings, spectrebeeyatch. Frodo in bed with all of his pals hugging and celebrating was pretty crappy. But the LOTR is still great, just like Star Wars. Why compare? Can't we all just love movies again???!
May 22, 2005, 3:48 a.m. CST
First of all the ROTK ending was on par (minus the Hobbits jumping around on the bed bit) with the awesome ROTS ending. Secondly, the "cone head guy" or Ki Adi Mundi was killed by Clone Troopers. And yes we'd all like to bang Aayla Secura.
May 22, 2005, 3:56 a.m. CST
You don't post over at tdsexperience.com as SleeperCell do you?
May 22, 2005, 4:06 a.m. CST
May 22, 2005, 4:07 a.m. CST
by The Founder
It was a funny momment to see the SW geeks get into a tussle over some seats. SW really is that important.
May 22, 2005, 4:08 a.m. CST
May 22, 2005, 4:11 a.m. CST
When I first heard the spoiler that Padme
May 22, 2005, 4:16 a.m. CST
by The Founder
This movie had its momments, but overall it was loaded with flaws, which i won't even get into to. I just don't buy Anikin as Vader, maybe it was the actor himself. I'm starting to think that someone like Leo or Joshua Jackson would've delivered or at least look mor threatening. Some of you die hard fans will support this movie no matter what. The 1st matrix and x2 was better then all three prequlas.
May 22, 2005, 4:30 a.m. CST
He showed maybe not the prowess, but the ambition with "Comic Book: the Movie." He loves these characters like we do, and likely has some swing with Lucas. "Episode VII staring, and directed by Mark Hamill." Mark, if you're reading this, make it happen.
May 22, 2005, 4:34 a.m. CST
by Commando Cody
Ok, being the lifelong SW fan that I am, I loved it. And prequel haters can kiss my Jedi ass. I got my money
May 22, 2005, 4:42 a.m. CST
May 22, 2005, 4:48 a.m. CST
by Commando Cody
In my last post I said there were 3 things that would have pushed the movie over the top for me, but only talked about one -- preserving EMPIRE'S "I am your father" revelation. The other two things I would have preferred in SITH were (1) Qui Gon appearing. Lucas should have gone for it. He blew that one, too. I think the scene in the conference room when Yoda says "Stay here, I have one last thing to teach you" would have rocked SOOOOOO much more if Yoda's speech was cut and he simply said something shorter and sweeter like (in Yoda-ese) "Last 2 Jedi are we two, Obi Wan. Into hiding till the time is right, we must go. But before you go, I will now share with you a mystery that has always eluded Jedi, but one which a Jedi Master has finally solved. Save us...save the future...perhaps it will." And then -- BOOM! -- let Qui Gon fade in. He doesn't need to talk or say anything. Just let the shimmering ghost appear and smile at his former Padawan. THAT would have ruled rather than Yoda just talking because VISUALLY you'd get the story point across about Jedi turning into one with the Force. The funny thing is, I can see Lucas saying "Well, I shot it, but cut it because I didn't want to give the surprise away. I wanted to save the surprise for NEW HOPE where Obi Wan gets cut down and comes back." But going back to my other post, why the fuck would you want to preserve THAT secret plot twist BUT give away the coolest one of all, EMPIRE'S "I am your father"? Besides, seeing Qui Gon fade in would have brought the PREQUELS full circle...brought the funeral pyre full circle..and thus a key story point that started in the prequels would be REVEALED in the prequels, making them seem more complete as a trilogy. And finally (3) like others, I will say I could have done without the Vader "NO!" I would have preferred to play it up more VISUALLY. I would have preferred to see him rip the room apart longer,things flying, the Emperor cackling and if you wanted to emotionally ham it up, fine, Vader can fall to his knees before his new master in resignation and anger and all the emotions Anakin must be feeling in the suit. But the vocalization was weak and could go...and Lucas could have spared a few more seconds to show more "force ripping" of the room. Then again, going back to keeping EMPIRE'S surprise, I don't think Vader in costume now really needed to be in this movie at all!
May 22, 2005, 4:48 a.m. CST
by Jon E Cin
It's the first time and last time we see Vader emote anything besides hatred. It kind of makes sense it's weird. Too weird probably, but I think thats the reason.
May 22, 2005, 4:57 a.m. CST
Empire was made before, and meant to be seen before ROTS. You can't ruin a suprise you've already seen. Do you also propose not revealing the twin's birth? Should the Emporer not even say the name Vader, since that too gives away his identity. Maybe they should recut the films to not give away Anikins last name. Yeah...flashbacks in Jedi...good idea. Retard.
May 22, 2005, 5:13 a.m. CST
going into costume and having the helmet clamped on (btw, the point of the whole movie) would not only outrage fans, but also ruin the helmet removal in Jedi. As is, that scene is now strengthened by this film.
May 22, 2005, 5:14 a.m. CST
I was expecting better from EP3 but it was still too much like 1&2. Cheesy dialogue=check, wooden acting=check, playstation effects=check. For all the extra bucks Lucas had for the new films, I feel that I saw more of different, interesting worlds in the OT, was it just me or did everything seem to take place at a window in Coruscant with flying cars whizzing past? The fight scene on the Wookee planet also seemed to be a fight scene we never saw!!! Way too short. The lava planet too at the end was way too boring and orange to be a good backdrop for the ultimate scene in the movie. When it comes to space battles too, less is more..the opening space battle was far too busy..I just couldn't focus on anything enough to enjoy...compare this to the final battle in EP6. I could go on, but this movie had way too many flaws. As said so much before, the OT will stand the test of time much better than EP1-3, obviously made for the MTV generation........
May 22, 2005, 5:19 a.m. CST
by Stimpson J Cat
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!HAHAHA loved that,hahaha or how bout when yoda fell like 1000 feet and was ok,HAHAHABLAHAHAH,okok admit it nobody was sure who Chewbacca was intill yoda said his name HAHAHA OH MY GOD!!!HOLEY SHEEP SHIT!!!TOO mUch to ripe up on now gota passout..HAHAHAHA
May 22, 2005, 5:19 a.m. CST
Sure he went out the window..But We never did see him splat. Sure he might be dead by ANH IV...But Maybe he lived?
May 22, 2005, 5:26 a.m. CST
by Trevor Goodchild
Just a quick Episode I query for the dedicated. Why when the red forcefield doors/airlock filters open again doesn't Obi Wan run like he did at the start to avoid the Droidekas?
May 22, 2005, 5:28 a.m. CST
With your great ideas...show me your unprecidented 6 episode epics exploring mythology and politics and cyclical family dynamics over generations in an entirely original universe of your own creation. Maybe while you're at it you can invent new technologies to create and enjoy films. Then we'll all bash you and tell you how worthless and untalented you are.
May 22, 2005, 5:43 a.m. CST
Lucas should stop trying to tell original stories and just re-make old movies and classic books and create designs from everyones collective memories (and from the old versions of the story) and then desaturate all the colors and keep the lighting low and include lots of long speeches and exclude any scenes that might be important...then maybe audiences might appreciate his work as much as LOTR.
May 22, 2005, 5:47 a.m. CST
by Trevor Goodchild
May 22, 2005, 5:49 a.m. CST
by Trevor Goodchild
May 22, 2005, 6:01 a.m. CST
by Big Dumb Ape
Let's run through YOUR arguments, shall we? You said "Empire was made before, and meant to be seen before ROTS. You can't ruin a suprise you've already seen." Ok, first off that's totally NOT true. Yes, EMPIRE was technically MADE before ROTS, but that's only by virtue of the way Lucas filmed the saga out of order. But you're talking out of your ass when you say its meant to be SEEN before ROTS. That's utter Lucas apologist bullshit you're tossing, so fling it some other way. Clearly the way the movies are meant to be WATCHED by all future generations is in order -- starting with PHANTOM MENACE. That's why it's numbered fucking Chapter ONE...Sith is Chapter THREE..and Empire is Chapter FIVE. Notice the way numbers going UP in progression the way they're SUPPOSED to? Going by your whacked logic, you're telling me that you read a murder mystery by STARTING IN THE MIDDLE, read to the end and find out "who did it", and then you flip the book BACK to page 1 and read the beginning to get the set up. Like THAT makes any fucking sense. Once Lucas made PHANTOM MENACE and declared it "Chapter One" front and center in the scroll he was clearly saying "Ok, this is the definitive order you're supposed to watch the movies in and the order you're supposed to be exposed to plot elements in." You also say "Do you propose not revealing the twins birth?" Actually, you can keep that. That's NOT a problem at all. The birth of the twins don't affect anything going in order. In short, there's no reason you CAN'T know that Luke -- as a grown young man in NEW HOPE -- is Anakin's son. There's no reason to hide his Skywalker birth lineage in NEW HOPE, other than to sit there in the theater and think "Oh, this is the kid Yoda and Obi Wan DON'T want the Emperor to find." All Cody's proposing (which I totally agree with him on, now that I think about it more and more) is that Lucas could have kept the plot element that ANAKIN is still alive a revelation. And he's right. If Lucas cut SITH so you DON'T see Palpatine rescuing Anakin...so that you THINK Anakin died out on the lava fields, laying there limbless and engulfed in flames, screaming out after Obi Wan in pain...and if you cut it so you DON'T see the armor getting slapped on and the birth of Vader, you can keep EMPIRE'S revelation intact. Because jumping from ROTS to NEW HOPE, all we'd now simply see is Darth Vader coming aboard the Blockade Runner and -- in watching the saga in order -- you'd just get the immediate impression that 20 years later...like Maul once was, like Dooku once was, like Greivous once was...this is simply the new bad ass in town working for the Emperor. But going by the cuts Cody was talking about, when Vader strolls onto the Blockade Runner --hell, for the rest of that whole movie given what happens in it -- you'd never be thinking "Oh, that's Anakin" now. As I said, you'd just think it's a villain the way we ALL grew up thinking he was UNTIL the revelation in EMPIRE came along and shocked us all. Then you say "Should the Emporer not even say the name Vader, since that too gives away his identity?" Hey, that's easy to get around. Lucas could've easily reworked the dialogue in the scene where Anakin turns and simply played it out differently. All he had to do was take out the bit of Palpatine bequeating the name Vader on him -- end of problem. Then you say "Maybe they should recut the films to not give away Anikin's last name." But going back to re-editing, again, it's no big deal about the name "Skywalker" being out there SO LONG AS AT THE END OF ROTS YOU END THE DUEL WITH THE NOTION THAT ANAKIN DIES OUT THERE. That's where Cody's right and I'll say it again. It DOESN'T effect NEW HOPE if you know Luke Skywalker is Anakin's son all grown up now -- all that effects things is knowing that ANAKIN survived the lava pit, which is what editing could have kept secret, thus keeping the whole fucking POINT of the revalation in EMPIRE intact. Finally you say "Yeah, flashbacks in Jedi. Good idea. Retard." Hey, retard, he's right again. I have to say, not to give Cody a reacharound hand job, I love this idea of his. I am totally digging it because he's right -- the "birth of Vader" sequence WOULD work better in ROTJ given what happens in that movie. But this is all hindsight. And why? Because this is the price you pay for filming something out of order and THEN trying to glue the elements together so they make sense. But I agree with Cody. ROTJ is the film which has Vader dealing with his feelings and his conscience and IS the movie where he switches sides and restores balance to the Force at last. So having a scene in THAT movie where one minute he remembers being in his prime and being a smiling, young handsome Jedi placed against the memory of being a melted blob of flesh on a table all because he betrayed his friends and killed his wife and seeing the helmet going on then WOULD play out more emotionally and powerfully. And it would make a hell of a lot more sense as a dramatic "build up" since in NEW HOPE we're exposed to Vader as a bad ass, but we all wonder what's under the hood...in EMPIRE we get that shot from behind where he's sitting and the helmet is lowered and you can see he's one scarred motherfucker, but you can't tell just HOW badly, but you know it's obviously pretty fucking bad...so building upon that, it would then make the most sense to culminate all that in ROTJ, to culminate it there by showing once and for all "what" happened and how he survived. Because just like a mystery, now in the FINAL CHAPTER you reveal all. But going back to what I said earlier, that's the problem with filming out of order the way Lucas did and with Lucas retroactively deciding to rewrite things and making particular elements of the saga up as he went along (which, let's face it, boys and girls, he clearly did given some plot holes that STILL exist in the saga). Truth is, if Lucas filmed 1-6 IN ORDER, I'd bet the way Cody outlined it IS the way Lucas would have gone. Why? Simple. To make shocking revelations pay off. To build element upon element. But because he filmed it ass backwards and out of order, he tossed up his hands at this last chapter and said "Oh, fuck it. People know the big surprise, so why hide it?" Which is too bad because what George should have been focusing on is FUTURE generations of kids who'll watch these films in order. And thus, like Cody...and I'm sure like a lot of others here...I wish Lucas had burned the midnight oil a bit more at the word processor scriptwriting so EMPIRE'S revelation could STILL be something that pays off and could have remained one of movie history's coolest moments.
May 22, 2005, 6:05 a.m. CST
by Darth Thoth
To be honest, this movie hit me even harder watching it a second time. It's an instant classic. I rank it 3rd in the series for the simple fact that Empire and A New Hope are perfect films in my opinion. The good stuff in RoTS rivals anything in those films but for the mistakes here and there in RoTS (i.e.- Vader's "NO!", bad dialogue, etc.), I place it below ANH and Empire.
May 22, 2005, 6:08 a.m. CST
May 22, 2005, 6:33 a.m. CST
by Triumph poops!
Fuck! I have to say I really hadn't thought of it that way, Big Ape, but it is sort of obvious now in retrospect. So I guess that's true. The EMPIRE revelation could have still worked and stayed intact SO LONG as we were lead to believe that the trunk of Anakin died out there in the lava pits writhing in pain and on fire, screaming out, making us all think "Well, looking at his surroundings and his predicament, THAT fucker's toast!" So, ok, count me in as one who thinks Lucas should have structured the film a bit better to keep EMPIRE'S big moment intact simply because -- let's face it -- it IS the biggest in your face, takes the air out of your lungs revelation in the entire saga, and now it's just...gone. Now it's just a movie line versus the way we all grew up with it, which was this gasp out loud "WHAT THE FUCK?!?" classic movie moment.
May 22, 2005, 6:35 a.m. CST
she doesn't KNOW Padme was her mother. She thinks some other woman was her mother... of course it should never have turned out that way - those kids should have been born in episode 2.
May 22, 2005, 6:36 a.m. CST
Doesn't it seem as though Lucas would have originally planned to have Luke and Leia be older when Padme dies?... ugh. Debating these films isn't worth the effort.
May 22, 2005, 6:45 a.m. CST
by Rapmaster C
Something mentioned in the second post. I can't believe anyone would find this film to be anything less than enjoyable, and for fans of the films, it was spectacular. There's emotion and danger in this film - everything goes to hell and a hero won't ascend for a good 20 years after the chaos. But hey, let's compare it to LOTR like we always do.......
May 22, 2005, 6:47 a.m. CST
can anyone explain to me how palpatine can look like himself to some and then look like sidious to others? does it just depend on who's looking at him? and if he's able to change his look from one to another, how come he doesn't change his face back to palpatine's when he talks to the senate at the end?
May 22, 2005, 6:50 a.m. CST
It's true, he probably has a good reason for her to be dead, but if he had that power, he probably wouldn't have stopped with her, and killed the twins, as well. Vader, really, could have killed her through pure subconscious will. But either way, we'll never know how. Still a fantastic movie. After finals, I'll probably try to go for a I,II,CW,III,IV,V,VI marathon. Even though that might kill me.
May 22, 2005, 6:54 a.m. CST
I guess I'll just have to make sure my kids see the OT before the NT. And when he's not scarred, Palpatine doesn't look like Sidious, Sidious just has a hood over his head.
May 22, 2005, 7:06 a.m. CST
by Triumph poops!
I've seen ROTS twice now (Friday and Saturday) and each time I loved it more. It's a gorgeous movie to sit there and look at, and I'm definitely going again next weekend once I catch my breath and collect a few thoughts. Emotionally this baby left me DRAINED, and I mean that in a good, satisfying experience way. I love reading the talkbacks because lots of you -- pro and con -- have pointed things out and given me things to think about at the next screening. So thanks to all my fellow geeks. All in all, I thought the movie kicked ass and I don't understand the naysayers dumping on it as downright visciously and brutally as some people have. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a summer popcorn movie and it completely delivered. I'll tell you this, effects-wise you can hand it the Oscar right now. And as for those bitching about the acting, I'm not going to use the standard bit of "Oh, come on, it's Star Wars. What did you expect? This isn't Shakespeare." I won't go that route simply because I thought the acting was fine in this. That's right, naysayers, FINE. Yes, the Anakin-Padme scene on the balcony was a stiff ("I love you", "No, I love you", "No, I love you more", "No, I love YOU more!") but that wasn't the acting, that was just bad scriptwriting (sorry, George, but it was a clunker moment). NO ONE could have saved that scene. But that exchange aside, I thought the other Anakin-Padme scenes were tolerable to downright moving. And Ewan RULES as Obi Wan. In fact, now it's even hard for me to think about old, teacher-like Alec Guiness in the part simply because Young Obi out kicking collective galactic ass is burned into my brain now. I thought Hayden was on the money and I totally bought his turn to the Dark Side, and his anger for feeling the Jedi had betrayed him and fucked him right up the ass. I even thought Portman did all right, too. Despite all the naysaying, I thought she seemed A LOT more relaxed and natural this time around compared to her first two outings. And McDiarmid fucking owned all asses in this. You never thought twice about him being one manipulative, evil mother fucker. I know in a million years the Academy wouldn't give him an Oscar for this -- that the Academy would snub its nose at the very idea of giving out a Star Wars ACTING Oscar -- but I'm sorry, that was Oscar level work. He was fucking riveting and totally mesmerizing every second he was onscreen and you were totally into his character. THAT'S acting. Come the next Oscars, I'll bet you right now his acting in this movie will EASILY stand head and shoulders above at least 2 of the people that the Academy picks for "Best Supporting Actor". Mark my words, you know it's true!!!!
May 22, 2005, 7:11 a.m. CST
The impression I got, which may be wrong, who the fuck knows, is that Palpatine wore a mask (which I guess would work well metaphorically as well, although it basically means the same thing) that was burned off when he was trying to kill Mace Windu. Guess that doesn't account for the yellow eyes though. Next time I see Lucas I'll ask him (that was a joke, of course; I won't ask Lucas about that next time I see him).
May 22, 2005, 7:12 a.m. CST
Yeah you are beautiful, but you don't mean a thing to me...
May 22, 2005, 7:15 a.m. CST
Gotta say, all the acting in this one impressed me mightily... EXCEPT for Portman's. Guh. She was horrible. Seriously. But Hayden earned a lot of respect and Ewan ruled as always.
May 22, 2005, 7:32 a.m. CST
by Triumph poops!
Overall, after 2 screenings, I really did think Portman was better and more natural this time out, certainly compared to PHANTOM MENACE which I watched on TV the other night and I was really stunned by how much I thought she was just miserably so much stiffer than I remembered. But I'm willing to concede 2 things: one, maybe I thought she was better because she wasn't around as much this episode out (since being pregnant they couldn't exactly put her into the big action set pieces)...and, two, I thought Hayden REALLY upped his game this time around as did all the others. I thought Sam Jackson was less of a stand-offish, disinterested ass this time, Ewan ruled as always, and as I said in my post, I thought McDiarmid owned all. And for the minor bit players, even when somebody wasn't speaking, it just seemed like Lucas framed and directed shots better so you "felt" more about whoever was onscreen. So upon reflection -- and given your post -- maybe I'm subconsciously giving Portman a pass because EVERYONE ELSE AROUND HER was so much better this time around.
May 22, 2005, 7:34 a.m. CST
great film, great moments, great performances - sure to grow in stature
May 22, 2005, 7:35 a.m. CST
George - Vader's "noo." needs tweaking. really, it should be the blood-curdling scream of a man who's abandoned everything he believes in, becoming the darkest monster imaginable, turning his back on his closest friend and master, slaughtering innocent children; a scream that forebodes 20+ years of galactic tyranny and mass murder; a scream that chills the blood and makes us all finally UNDERSTAND the blackness of Vader's despair that motivates his character in ANH, ESB & ROTJ - instead of... not. you can tweak that shit for the SE, tho', right?
May 22, 2005, 7:45 a.m. CST
sorry, forgot to say: "...slaughtering kids etc., - and getting severely mash-up in the process: only to be told it was all for nothing, the girl croaked anyway..."
May 22, 2005, 7:46 a.m. CST
Say he's about 30 in TPM? Is that a bit old to still be a padawan? Then he would be ca 40 in Aotc, 42 in RotS and 62 in ANH. He can't be any younger than sixty in ANH, can he? BTW, RotS is, to me, perfect.
May 22, 2005, 7:49 a.m. CST
she croaked BECAUSE anakin became obsessed with saving her. Therein lies the real tragedy. He made his own premonitions true. How greek.
May 22, 2005, 7:52 a.m. CST
by Triumph poops!
I don't mind that Lucas went the route of verbalizing Anakin's pain and having him yell out "Noooooo!" Having him scream in anquish over all the elements that have brought him to this particular place, this particular fate, didn't bother me. What I DIDN'T like about the moment (following up on Ikkyu's post) was James Earl Jones' scream. I agree -- tweak it. Redo it. Do SOMETHING. It just seemed to be...off. It seemed like it was weaker than it should have been. Or tinnier, for lack of a better word. Certainly giving that incredibly powerful, booming, echoing voice that James Earl Jones has even naturally. So augmented for the screen...for the moment...it seems like it needed to be LOUDER and more BOOMING and literally ECHOING through the theater to the point of making the walls rattle, making full use of a THX sound system. So that as you said it would be more of a moment defining the grim days to come, as opposed to what it is now which seemed a bit limp. I'd be tempted to defend it by saying it was just the speaker system at my local theater fritzing, but the rest of the movie's sound levels were booming whenever they needed to. So since all the OTHER stuff was perfectly fine, it leads me to agree the scream they used was just off. So, yeah -- replace it or redo it, but fix it for the DVD release for sure. Pump it up more, George! Given the record breaking box office weekend you're having, I'm sure you can afford to pay Jone's to come into a recording studio and howl a few more takes!
May 22, 2005, 7:56 a.m. CST
by Mr Brownstone
listen to Commander Cody and Big Dumb Ape. They make some excellent points that would improve not just Sith, but the whole series. Lucas went for the quick buck/instant gratification angle of seeing Vader "born" instead of thinking in terms of the whole. You could argue that the moment is still plenty dramatic knowing the secret (and it is) but remembering the mind blowing shock of that revelation makes me think it should have been left intact.
May 22, 2005, 7:56 a.m. CST
by Sans Souci
I bought a ticket promising entrace to "Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith." I went into the designated theater at the desginated time with a group of friends holding similar tickets. I sat in the same row with them for a half hour before the movie started. I hooted at the same FF and WotW trailers as they did. I stared ahead at the screen big screen along with them and everyone else in the packed theater reading a great title crawl, and then...somehow I end up having watched a far, far inferior product to the one everyone else in the world is cheering over. How in the world did this happen? The movie I saw...Terrible script. Hideous acting from actors who know can and usually electricfy the screen with their presence. Horrible editing. Flimsy and confusing character motivation for Anakin. (I love Padme but I cannot tell anyone! Padme pregnant? Oh, what a complication! Aah! Bad dream! Like the ones I had before I slaughtered all those Tusken women and children! Padme going to die? I have to save her! Oh, no, evil Sith! Must warn Jedi! Wait! Sith can save Padme if I kill everyone who's ever cared about or trusted me? And then we can make the galaxy pay for making us keep our love secret? Hmm. *bzzzzz*) The only stand out moments were the Yoga/Emporer battle, the padawan desperately trying to escape the temple while Bail Organa stands there like a tool as the clone troopers shoot the kid like a dog in the street, most of the stuff with Sidious BEFORE he morphs into Emporer Pumpkinhead (excluding the already mentioned Yo/Sidi fight), and Padme's one great line in the Senate. (That still rings as hypocritical because she sat around most the movie looking furrowed or trading pseudo-romantic nonsense with Ani.) I'm glad so many folks loved this movie, but for me the Emporer has no clothes. And if you think his face is ugly, be glad you ain't see his wrinkled old arse! Eugh! Pity me, friends and strangers, for I spy Heaven elsewhere from you.
May 22, 2005, 8:05 a.m. CST
by Sans Souci
Fry's tortured scream over his destroyed sandcastle in "Futurama" had more depth, and that was intentionally played for laughs. Sidious: Darth Vader, I regret to inform you we're out of toilet paper." Vader: NOOOOOOOOOO! It's not wonder he eventually went around Force-choking all those Imperial officers. They were no doubt snickering behind his back at the "Dark Lord of the Sissy." Those who suggested silence/no scream, you're on the money. But this is George's movie, and that scream remains until he gets bored of it. Sigh.
May 22, 2005, 8:08 a.m. CST
The movie I saw was complex, intense and well executed. I would love to see yoga fighting though.
May 22, 2005, 8:18 a.m. CST
by Sans Souci
But I hate yogurt! Even with strawberries! ;) Horrible spelling aside, please believe me that I truly wanted to like this movie. I've loved SW since my childhood in the 1970s. One of my happiest memories of first grade is when our teacher read to us from of the Star Wars junior novelization. Our class never paid as much attention to her as we did that day! There's talk of a generational divide over these prequels and the OT, but there's plenty of fanboys over 30 like me who're praising ROTS. Like I said, pity me for I do not see what you all behold. *Goes to corner to sob quietly*
May 22, 2005, 8:31 a.m. CST
by Triumph poops!
You know, I scrolled back to Cody's post about how Lucas should re-edit a Director's cut to keep the EMPIRE revelation intact and after re-reading it and really picturing it in my head, I'm a bit blown away by it now simply because upon reflection, his suggestion is utterly fucking brilliant because it's SO OBVIOUS. So I'm with you, Mr. Brownstone. Cody's suggestion is so on the head, it really would hit the ball out of the park. It really would improve the saga overall when you look at ALL six movies as one big unit. Don't get me wrong, I loved ROTS. I had a great time. It's gonna be one of my top movies of the year, no question about it, and it's aleady my second favorite Star Wars flick. But I'll be fair and open enough (even as a SW geek) to say this: I know Lucas has lots of "yes men" around him, but Cody's idea fucking rules! George, take it and run with it in that ultimate high definition DVD expanded director's version that I always hear rumors about. It would be better storytelling AND would preserve EMPIRE's kick ass moment. In fact, how the fuck did no one -- not even Spielberg when he was ghost directing storyboards and helping Lucas out on ROTS -- convince George this was the way to go? To keep a classic movie moment like EMPIRE's revelation intact because the saga would be better for it? What, were people THAT afraid to point something this obvious out to George?
May 22, 2005, 8:31 a.m. CST
Your heartfelt lament made me appreciate how lucky I am. You saw the crescent, we saw the whole of the moon (of Jego, I think.)
May 22, 2005, 8:32 a.m. CST
If things had gone a little differently, Luke or Leia could have been named "Ah, Fuck, I'm Dying!" instead. Also, why didn't Lucas digitally stick Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher's faces on those babies? Where was he on that one? Totally would have enhanced my movie-going experience. That CGI-happy bastard...
May 22, 2005, 8:39 a.m. CST
by Sans Souci
I will leave now before I become trollish, which is not my desire. Just one last thing: Commando Cody's suggestions are indeed great. Hopefully Cody's working in Hollywood, and if not he/she should be. We need more folks like that behind the cameras!
May 22, 2005, 8:39 a.m. CST
"He turned to the dark side to save Padme. He was willing to do anything, and i can buy him doing almost anything, but for him to go so evil as to kill children goes too far". This kind of annoyed me a bit at first too but remember, he's already killed a load of kids. They may have just been Tuscan Raiders but they were still children.
May 22, 2005, 9:08 a.m. CST
You are the most offensive person i've ever come across. Who gives 2 shits about your opinion. Offending people's sexuality when discussing movies for children really is unbelievable. Go and learn something about the world before you open your mouth. The lack of education in America really is staggering and very worrying. It also helps explain you guys voting Bush back into power. Way to go guys, yankee doodle dandy toodle pip and all that jazz.
May 22, 2005, 9:12 a.m. CST
by Trevor Goodchild
May 22, 2005, 9:19 a.m. CST
by Trevor Goodchild
...when the red forcefield airlock filter doors opened. He could have got to Qui Gon in time. Like he does when the Droidekas/destroyers attack on the Neimoidian's ship? Second time I've posted this query but I really want to hear some theories.
May 22, 2005, 9:20 a.m. CST
by Trevor Goodchild
May 22, 2005, 9:25 a.m. CST
by Trevor Goodchild
So far I've not heard anyone recollect any nice little touches in ROTS. For example the way Maul 'Forces' a droids head to open the door in TPM or the Seismic Charges in AOTC. Anyone recall?
May 22, 2005, 9:31 a.m. CST
I've seen many posts and reviews bitching that Anakin's turn to the dark side isn't convincing. Well, it actually DOES make sense. Anakin is OBSESSED with Padme. I mean, he's nuts. Frickin' wacko. He's been like that since TPM. Remember how he looked when he first sees her in Clones? Weirdo boy for sure. So, when he realizes he has a chance to save her, your damn right he's going to slaughter a few kids. No big deal when your NUTS! Plus it's hinted (just hinted) that Palpatine was behind the whole "immaculate conception" nonsense from TPM which probably didn't help with his psyche. So, yes, it makes perfect sense why he goes to the dark side.
May 22, 2005, 9:43 a.m. CST
I think that's what they meant. And you are so right. All we got was a choke, toss and a push (sounds kinky). Most of the fights were uninspired and dull. Just guys hacking at each other. Man this movie was such a let down.
May 22, 2005, 10:04 a.m. CST
by SID 8.0
I Loved the movie going to see it again today. The thing I don't get is why the people who say they hate it and the other prequels are also repeat viewers. Did they think it would change the second time around? Oh well the Ep. 1 still has the best lightsaber fight with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan VS. Darth Maul. The lightsaber battles in this were a close second. I liked the continuity with Clone wars too. when you hear Gen. Grevious hacking and coughing from the squeeze Windu put on him. Hard to watch the end though. The look on Obi-Wan's face when Yoda told him he would have to kill Anakin priceless.
May 22, 2005, 10:09 a.m. CST
Younglings? Why not call them children? It sounded like Battlestar Galactica speak. Also, I don't buy the fact that Padme died because she had no will to live crap. She was suppose to be a strong character and she was going to be a mother. Strong maternal instinct would have kept her alive to take care of her children. For most women that instinct overtakes even the strength of the relationship one has with the father.
May 22, 2005, 10:19 a.m. CST
by Roger Thornhill
...the second time around. It ain't great art like Tarkovsky or Fellini, but it sure is great entertainment. I think a lot of these talkbackers are being a bit nitpicky about this film, but I guess that's the point of having this talkback so people can discuss what they did and didn't like.
May 22, 2005, 10:21 a.m. CST
by Roger Thornhill
I read a review that said ROTS is "an anti-Bush diatribe." Does anyone here feel the same way? I think that critic was going a bit over-the-top since Palpatine's rise can be paralleled with other leaders like Mr. Adolf Hitler.
May 22, 2005, 10:44 a.m. CST
Walking out of the screening feeling like shit did I. It got really really boring after Dooku is killed for almost an hour with more inane bullshit and talking and more bullshit about General Grievous was supposed to be this ultimate jedi killing cyborg and what do we get..... a fucking cartoon character with the worst voice acting since Jar Jar. What was with that smokers cough, I thought he was always about to fall over or put on some breathing mask before talking, fucking aweful cgi creation. Sure he looked awesome wielding 4 lightsabres for about 5 seconds but who wouldn't....tweety pie could've pulled that off better. I was about to pass a damning verdict on this cartoon if it wasn't for one scene. The arrest of Palpatine which was great with a short but awesome fight with Mace Windu. I loved Palpatines transformation here. All down to one man and easily the greatest character in this film, Ian McDiarmid. Palpatine will go down in history as one of the greatest villains in the history of Cinema, if not the greatest, watching McDiarmid as Sidious is a joy to behold. A Demonic villian that just eats up the screen like I couldn't believe, but the whole thing with Anakin turning was unbelievably rushed - the biggest mistake in the prequel trilogy. Even Order 66 sucked and didn't have any impact whatsoever. To me the standout sequence in the whole film is Yoda Verses The Emperor which finally had the crowd going when he waddles in and takes out the two guards. Again this scene is great because the of Ian McDiarmid's showboating theatrics. As for the fight it was incredible, just visually amazing and playing Duel Of The Fates over it was an inspired choice....as they rise up through the floor of the conference chamber I was fucking freaking out and Yoda finally gets the ass kicking he deserves for having his head up his ass all these years. As for the Anankin V Obi-wan fight it was a massive letdown with the beating of Anakin being shit. I did like end result of his torso burning up and it looked horrible but with everything else it was too rushed. Vaders construction was done on fast forward and didn't have much impact. As for NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I think everyone agree's it fucking sucks big time, I heard stifled laughter and sniggers all around me and it finally dawned on me that Lucas really did fuck up this trilogy. As for the last shot in the film, what a load of shit, two fucking nobody actors no one gives two fucks about looking at a sunset.........
May 22, 2005, 11:10 a.m. CST
Sith was not perfect but it was a major improvement on the previous 2 outings. I may even place it above ROTJ. But not after just one viewing. When I watched A New Hope immediatly afterwards, I was surprised how much more enjoyable it was with lead in of the Sith. I always loved it, this just made it a bit better. It is as if Alec Guiness knew there was going to be prequils made. Regarding the Sith....Great opening...turned Juvinile for about 20 minutes....then the plot kicked in and it was enjoyable from that moment on. Suddenly the Ships began to age and look more like the original Star Wars films. Anakin (Hayden) was much better this time. Portman just isn't meant to read Lucas dialogue and Samuel Jackson was pretty bad. My fav's were Ewan as OBI-1, and Ian as the Emperor Palpatine. Those two are the only ones who could fit in alongside the original cast. Final notes...Vader shouting "Noooooo" was a bad idea. Lucas must have known that that is cliche cheesiness. Very much a Simpsons moment. Alot to like and dislike in this but it Star Wars...a movie I looked forward to so much that I prayed that I would live to see all 9 of. Well in the end only 6 turned up and I am satisfied. Thanks George Lucas! Thanks for entertaining my imagination as a child and as an adult as well. Thanks for not letting Jar Jar say another word.
May 22, 2005, 11:18 a.m. CST
It's been interesting to read all the different points of view about the latest Star Wars film, and some of the suggestions about how it could have been better... But regardless of what we all think, the film is finished and it's out there for all to see, just as George Lucas intended. It's important to discuss it and debate whether it's good or bad, or somewhere in the middle. But ultimately, we will not be able to change the way it is... The reason I make this point is because I think it's easy to forget what George Lucas intended when he began making these films 30 years ago. He wanted to resurrect the old-fashioned movie -- as most of us would know. But he also wanted to make a political, social and artistic statement for the times. And whether you acknowledge it or not, that's what most filmmakers are trying to do when they make a film. Of course it's entertainment, but it's also storytelling for the masses and like religion or mythology, it's concerned with larger themes of good, evil, pride, anger, love and redemption. It's not only meant to please the fans, but to educate and inspire people who are too young to have learned about these ideas themselves, or whom have been taught (or indoctrinated) to believe that "our side" is better than "their side"... The references to Bush (and the policies of the Bush administration since 9/11), are used to show us that these themes and ideas are still relevant and in fact prevalent in the present day. It's Lucas' way of saying take a look at the world you're all living in - it's not that much different to the one on the screen. Or, it could be if we don't start paying attention. I thought the film was fantastic, but not because it was a perfect film or because it answered every single question posed by the other parts, but because it was an amazing vision for any filmmaker to have, regardless of the previous films and as a testament to the evolutiuon of cinema and a respectful nod to the 1930s style of filmmaking, that Lucas is so fond of... I think Lucas will be remembered for his multitude of cinematic and pop/cultural achievements, not just the mixed critical reaction the prequels have received. SE
May 22, 2005, 11:34 a.m. CST
Lucas may not have intentionally done this, but in certain scenes I was like woah that's freakin' W. An example would be when they first mention that Palpatine has gained extreme power because of the war. The big moment where I thought of Bush was when Amidala said, "that's how freedom dies, with applause". It seemed so like what has happened to a lot of our constitutional rights during the past few years. And yet most people think it
May 22, 2005, 11:37 a.m. CST
by Pontsing Barset
I'm going to have to pounce on your: "I find your lack of intelligence disturbing..." post. To quote Peter Travers (whom I rarely agree with): "...the film follows Anakin Skywalker (Hayden Christensen -- to merely call him wooden is an affront to puppets everywhere)". If you don't see even a hint of veracity in that assessment I submit that you're just one of the brainwashed, sycophantic, Lucas apologist masses. I like the film quite a bit but the performances (with the exception of McDiarmid and POSSIBLY McGregor) are TERRIBLE: Shockingly amateurish, stilted and soulless for film making at this level.
May 22, 2005, 11:39 a.m. CST
And don't give me this balance of the force bull****. We're supposed to believe that Obi-Wan saying this is a mistake on his part and is a result of his lack of balance with the force? C'mon! Lucas is not that clever. He's simply selling out to the post-modern moral relativists because there is no one left to sell out to.
May 22, 2005, 11:40 a.m. CST
by Hoke Mosley
Well, first of all, Im with the guys saying Palpatine and the Sith he later killed are responsible dor Anakin's birth. But I can
May 22, 2005, 11:42 a.m. CST
by Pontsing Barset
May 22, 2005, 11:47 a.m. CST
Bush was not elected in 2000, had the massive fraud not occurred in Florida he would have never went into office. In 2004 he used the fear created by 911 and an unnecessary war he started to get reelected. Why is that about 50% of American's think your way, but only a very small percentage of the rest of the free world would ever vote for a piece of garbage like him? Maybe it's our poor education system producing moron slaves who support oppression. Have you ever heard of personal freedom or diplomacy? Thought not, neither has Bush.
May 22, 2005, 11:51 a.m. CST
by Darth Kosher
I thought it was great. There were a couple of little nits here and there, but not being an ungrateful jackass who doesn't appreciate the hard work it takes to create something from a blank page, I will not mention them. As for "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" If I had just been told I had killed my pregnant secret wife in a fit of anger, I may scream something like that, too. But give Vader a break. He's spent his whole life talking like a white Canadian. He didn't have enough time to get used to speaking like an old black man to realize he needed to change his speech patterns to be most effective. And I must say, the Order 66 montage was pretty powerful stuff.
May 22, 2005, 11:51 a.m. CST
I allowed myself to get drawn into politics in this forum. I kinda forgot we were supposed to be talking about the best Star Wars movie of all time, Revenge of the Sith.
May 22, 2005, 11:58 a.m. CST
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes" is an absolute statement.
May 22, 2005, 11:58 a.m. CST
by New in NY
I know we're all geeks here, so I know we've all seen that show backwards and forwards (maybe some of you even cracked the three separate alien codes embedded in the show) --- personally, I'm not interested in debating the merits of the PT as good cinema (SORRY Lucas; you lost me at "ex-squeeeeeze me") ... I'm more interested in wondering WTF was up with the droids PROGRAMMED to be goof-ups!!! I'm just surprised there weren't alcoholic robots, beggar robots, gangster robots ... hell, why not a Jedi robot? Or even a depressed robot (or is that too close to H2G2?) ... THIS IS A CALL TO ALL THOSE STILL STICKING BY THE FILM - I'm not trying to "hate" (whatever the hell that means in this context), I just want to know what's up with droids programmed to do dumb shit!
May 22, 2005, noon CST
still "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" is an absolute statement.
May 22, 2005, 12:12 p.m. CST
I've really enjoyed reading what has been (for the most part) a very thoughtful debate about Episode III. I can't wait to see it again and decide how I feel about it after a second viewing. Come on - when was the last time any filmmaker in Hollywood gave us a movie that *demanded* to be seen again like this? I agree that the movie has flaws - a few silly moments, some weak dialogue - but as I said earlier, I've never had a "popcorn movie" make me *feel* this much. It's an emotionally draining experience and worth every penny to see it on the big screen.
May 22, 2005, 12:14 p.m. CST
Sounds like an interesting movie. I'll have to check it out. Will I need to see the other five to know what's going on? It almost sounds as good as Krull.
May 22, 2005, 12:20 p.m. CST
by New in NY
Indeed, Conservatives do seem to be a bit unhinged these days; though, I think even your satire was a bit over the top ...
May 22, 2005, 12:28 p.m. CST
by Catbarf the 5th
If the story of the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire (and the depiction of this as a tragic thing) makes some people think that ROTS is an anti-Bush diatribe, that says more about Bush, America and the times we live in than it does about the movie. Lucas had this basic plotline in mind since 1976 (the Republic-to-Empire history was pretty clearly stated in every Star Wars movie). This story is a much older story than that, even... it's not a trendy protest-of-the-week. History has examples of Republics becoming Empires, Rome and Germany being the most obvious ("Triumph of the Will" being a huge visual influence on the OT makes this even more clear). And yes there was some anti-Nixon anti-Vietnam in there originally, but it wasn't the overall point of the movie, just a theme (history repeats itself). Fearing an enemy, leaders will take advantage of a nervous public to wipe away their benign form of government for a draconian one, and people are actually happy to see it go... they don't realize their mistake until it's too late. "We're being attacked, TRUST ME, I will protect you just sign here". THIS IS ONE OF THE OLDEST POLITICAL TRICKS IN THE BOOK. If Lucas hammers home the similarity with current events in the USA (which only takes A FEW LINES of hint-hint for people to get, not a big propaganda essay or Palpatine talking in a Texas accent... in other words the "diatribe" Lucas is accused of presenting) then that's OK with me... it's not like he changed around the entire movie to fit today. He didn't. Life imitated art here far more than the other way around. History (Lucas' main inspiration) is, coincidentally, repeating itself right now. Rather than get mad at Lucas for the similarities of the USA to the Empire, maybe you should get mad at our own government instead.
May 22, 2005, 12:38 p.m. CST
May 22, 2005, 12:47 p.m. CST
by Trevor Goodchild
And for the same reasons as I saw it on terrestrial on Saturday. Although the whole duel is my personal favorite of the Duels, I cannot get away from the fact that Obi Wan's leap up out of the shute is piss poor. No excuse for that these days. It looks like exactly what it is. A man on a winch. After all that came before it. And Maul suddenly decides at that moment to stand still and watch? I have become very skilled at FWDing all the other scenes and then stopping it just as Obi Wan rolls into the chute. "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick'.
May 22, 2005, 12:47 p.m. CST
by Voice O. Reason
...Which, BTW, I liked even better the second time I saw it.
May 22, 2005, 1 p.m. CST
by Trevor Goodchild
Being someone who's yet to see the film I find it odd that people are not talking about quite a few things. Bruce Spence? Wookies? Polis? Grievous's bike? Obi Wan's lizard mount? Is there also a planet with an incredibly thick atmosphere and giant mushrooms?
May 22, 2005, 1:08 p.m. CST
I saw it AND I liked it. Thats all, no indepth review here, just very enjoyable. Life goes on. BYEEEEE. Oh and for those whinging old nannies "WAAHHH it cost me $7, I hated it, Lucas you owe me! WAAHH" Pull yourselves together for heavens sake and grow up, its just one of many dissapointments in life you'll just have to contend with, deal with it.
May 22, 2005, 1:12 p.m. CST
The following posters like to watch their girlfriends have sex with black guys. PositronicCock, Powermetal1, moviemack, and Mr_Miracle. That is all.
May 22, 2005, 1:16 p.m. CST
hi guys, just going to see rots again, 2nd time tonight, and as i missed the falcon last time around was wondering what part of the film it was? also are there any other cool things that i should watch out for? thanks and in my opinion this film is AWESOME! " YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!!" just sent shivers down my spine! class!
May 22, 2005, 1:17 p.m. CST
What is with this all of a sudden because ROTS wasn't a bad/awful movie suddenly George Lucas and his trilogy can be forgiven and everything else deserves to be slated. I'm not a star wars 'hater', I was excited to see this movie, I enjoyed it thoroughly, it was good fun. But people are all of a sudden saying ROTS puts Lord of the Rings to shame.. look back at LOTR talk-backs and I don't think you'll find nearly the same amount of abuse as this film gets. Will ROTS clean-sweep the oscars? No. Will it get an SFX oscar? perhaps. Box-Office means so little, and definately doesn't make a film good. ROTS will be looked back upon and time will probably not be that kind..Its good, but I'm sorry to the Star Wars fans who are still clinging on but if you want to see a decent trilogy see LOTR. I mean this prequel has 2 dire movies and one pretty good one.. Even the matrix has better odds than that! (apologies for mentioning any other film that Star Wars, I'm sure i'll get done for that..)
May 22, 2005, 1:29 p.m. CST
Just another contradiction.... In ANH, Tarkin is giving Vader orders. And why is that one guy talking about that "sad devotion to an ancient religion" (paraphrase) when Sidious is his boss and the head Sith guy? There are just more and more contradictions...it's incredible that Lucas didn't care about any of this and just did his dumb story the way he wanted to anyway.
May 22, 2005, 1:40 p.m. CST
by I Dunno
No one knows that Palptine is a Sith. Probably, no one even knows what a Sith is, besides Obi Wan, Yoda and a bunch of dead Jedi. So Tarkin gave Vader orders while Vader was in Tarkin's pad, what's the problem? You people are trying so hard to find contradictions and you're not doing very well.
May 22, 2005, 1:43 p.m. CST
May 22, 2005, 1:50 p.m. CST
ya know, if you throw Crispy Critters Anakin into the water he would kinda look like Jason in the first Friday the 13th movie......
May 22, 2005, 1:54 p.m. CST
About the whole Obi Wan not running thing. Here is a simple explanation, He didnt expect the force fields to close that quickly. He was taken by surprise. Has he been able to anitcipate it he could have done it but he gets surprised and then gets seperated.
May 22, 2005, 1:58 p.m. CST
Can somone answer this question: Why do some Jedi dissolve when they die and others do not? Was this answered in the movie and I missed it?
May 22, 2005, 2:03 p.m. CST
What are the details concerning Yoda communing with Qui-Gon Jinn? He even says, "You're apprenctice I gratefully become." I'm guessing the novelization clears this up but the movie doesn't.
May 22, 2005, 2:05 p.m. CST
by R.C. the "Wise"
Plus, there was more more screen time for Vader in the bombardment of tie-in adds, than in the film. The Digital experience was superb but that just meant your eyes and focus was drawn to witness the mindnumbingness plot of this film. All this hype, speculation, and yearning of seeing Vader in his prime and how does Lucas reward his SW fans/fanatics/and freaks, with an over the top "Nooooooooooooooo!" Shit! Even with the 2hr. 15min length, Lucas cut out some gem scenes! Utter bullshit. What so sad it the justification of the film is only due to the fact that the previous two prequels are arguably unwatchable. Lame. I may see it again when it's on DVD
May 22, 2005, 2:23 p.m. CST
I was never a huge Star Wars fan but this might be the movie to do it for me for the simple reason that the movie wasn't childish at all... No comic relief characters, no stupid kids running around, Jar Jar was kept to an absolute minimum (I dont think he uttered a single corny line), even C3-PO and R2-D2 really didnt say or do much... The entire movie was serious and tragic and I loved it... In my opinion, it was the best SW movie ever and I really dont know what Lucas could've done to make it any better... The only scene I didnt like was the death of Windu (which was a little cheesy and I just knew Boba Fett was gonna be the one to kill Windu after he killed his father but whatever)... All in all, a near perfect movie and a great way to end the series... (And this SHOULD be THE END...)
May 22, 2005, 2:26 p.m. CST
by Buford T. Justice
Jesus, it's like being back at school reading half these fucking comments - can't we just comment on whether or not we like the film? For the record, I hated 1 and half liked 2 and thought that ROTS was a damn fine film, and for the record I also loved the LOTR films and the first Matrix film and do not have any problems with this. Isn't this Talkback here to comment on the worth of films and intelligent discussion rather than degenerating into childish slaggings?
May 22, 2005, 2:28 p.m. CST
***** (1) QUESTION: The mask of Palpatine ANSWER: "'And so the mask becomes the man,' he sighed with hint of philosophical melancholy. 'I shall miss the face of Palpatine, I think; but for our purposes, the face of Sidious will serve. Yes, it will serve.'" And during the duel, "His skin flowed like oil, asthough the muscle beneath was burning away, as though even the bones of his skull were softening, were bending and bulging, deforming from the heat and pressue of his electric hatred." (pages 334 and 336) ***** (2) QUESTIONS: Did Mace defeat Palpatine? ANSWER: It is pretty clear from the novel (pages 331-334) that once Anakin arrived, Mace figured the duel was won. When Anakin arrives "Mace had no need to look; the presence in the Force was familiar, and was as uplifting as sunlight breaking through a thunderhead. The chosen one was here." Then Mace comments to Palpatine when Palpatine is cornered, "'You lost for the same reason the Sith always lose: defeated by your own fear.'" Palpatine responds, "'Fool! Do you think the fear you feel is mine?'" Palpatine of course was referring to Anakin's fear and Anakin's impending shatterpoint. On page 333 Mace finally understands only too late what Palpatine was referring to. Anakin approaches and Mace shouts out for help and then suddenly Mace feels that Palpatine has no fear over Anakin, "Mace thought, blankly astonished, Palpatine trusts Anakin..." ***** (3) QUESTION: Why not train the twins right away? ANSWER: Yoda says, "'Jedi training, the sole source of self-discipline is not. When right is the time for skills to be taught, to us the living Force will bring them. Until then, wait we will, and watch, and learn'" (page 412). This Yoda comment is a direct result of his meditating with Qui-Gon (page 409). ***** Hope this helps.
May 22, 2005, 2:31 p.m. CST
Saw it over the wknd. Fuckin piece of shit.
May 22, 2005, 2:32 p.m. CST
I wonder what diatribes you presented your parents with on Christmas morning when your deepest materialistic desires weren't wrapped in the right color paper. I wonder how many hours of suffering your wives or girlfriends have to suffer through when they haven't sucked your cock in "just the right way." I wonder why God lets you continue living when every waking moment is obviously painful torture for you. Christ almighty.
May 22, 2005, 2:38 p.m. CST
I read the novelization for Revenge of the Sith, and I think it made the movie that much better for me, because there was so much stuff they couldn't cram into the movie. The movie made a lot more sense after reading the book. Yoda said after the twin's birth that they must make Padme appear to be still pregnant so that Anakin wouldn't know the kids were alive (because you would think Anakin would find them a lot sooner if he did know), and it also gave a good explanation on why the twins were sent off seperately, a lot more about the Senate, and also why C3PO was wiped (he just has a big mouth). The book just made a lot more sense, but because of it, the movie was great for me to watch.
May 22, 2005, 2:38 p.m. CST
Whereas George Lucas was never one for writing good dialogue/storylines, this film rather showed him at his worst. I feel like I'm committing blasphemy in saying this, but it was pretty bad. The duel scenes were, as always, fantastic, but it could be said that if Lucas had spent a little less time with those and actually sat down to write a good script....I wouldn't have said this movie was mediocre. On a more upbeat side note: Ewan/Obi-Wan was great! Best part in the entire thing. His 'You were my brother' thing made me cry. My overall reaction to this thing, however, was that I knew that I wanted to get home so I could pop in 'A New Hope.' Give me Luke, Leia, Han and Co. anyday.
May 22, 2005, 2:49 p.m. CST
How does Vader know Luke is his child? I know everything can be easily answered by "The force tells him!" Okay, that very second when he finds out that Luke is his son, he doesn't even seem a bit annoyed that he was deceived by the emperor for 20 years. The emperor told him that he killed Padame. So does Vader just think "Oh well, I guess someone came by and pulled the kids out of her dead body. That must be it. No one would ever lie to me!"???
May 22, 2005, 2:52 p.m. CST
Wouldn't watching eps IV-VI first do the same thing? I feel the entire saga plays much better this way as well. I'd compare it to watching Fire Walk with Me before Twin Peaks. You can't do it or else it ruins everything. In fact it's essential to know the imagry of the series before you see the film. The same is true of eps IV-VI. It's essential to have seen them before you watch I-III. The impact of these films (mostly ep III) is far far greater this way.
May 22, 2005, 2:59 p.m. CST
...One shot...that I really liked in this film...was the look in haydens eyes as the mask of vader slowly covers him...the look of fear & regret.... I was actually taken aback by that one moment in the film...as I was by the peformance he gave when he was screaming I hate you at obi wan. Moment that was so unintentionally funny was the rebealing of the emperor...it actually got laugh out loud reactions when anakins at his knees and says camply "The force is strrrroooong in you!!".BAD. However...I thought some aspects were done very well. Grevious was totally redundant and bogs the film down. Good as the OT? Still no....a good summer movie? yep....I think time will tell on this one.
May 22, 2005, 3:03 p.m. CST
by Trevor Goodchild
Caught by surprise is a little lame. He's a Jedi. If you need to get somewhere as a matter of life and death you get there as quickly as possible. Your beloved Master is struggling and in mortal danger you don't have a casual trot to be at his side.
May 22, 2005, 3:27 p.m. CST
It's time for me to weigh in with my overall opinion of the movie. I didn't dislike it firstof all, this is a movie I could view again and look past the flaws. For starters, having seen grievous in the Clone Wars cartoons, I feel that he was woefully underused, he had the makings of one bad-ass villain and they wasted that chance. I feel that Yoda's trip to Kashykk was also QUITE pointless (just another way for George to make the prequel universe even MORE inbred by bringing in Chewbacca) Also, when Order 66 was carried out it was pretty disappointing, any Jedi worth his salt would have been able ot put up a MUCH better fight (hell, the kid that got gunned down in front of Bail Organna put up more of a fight then most of the other Jedi.) Also the arresting Jedi. . .same story there. Finally, I think the whole "nooooo" scene with Darth Vader could have been dealt with in a much better manner. So, I would say this movie is superior to the other 2 prequels, but not quite up to snuff with the OT. At any rate, I'll probably see it again (The lava dual was one of THE best scenes) I dunno, I just wish they could have done the whole prequel trilogy to where it picks up with Anakin as a teen, goes through the clone wars and builds towards Anakin's turn in and in the final movie, have the lava dual closer to the beginning so we can actually see Darth Vader (in full regalia) mercilessly cutting down Jedi.
May 22, 2005, 3:33 p.m. CST
Did that scene where Darth Vander broke off his chains and staggered forward not remind anyone else of Frankenstein's monster? 'Cause I totally think that's what Lucas was going for. Also, I'm convinced greatly incredibly sort of that Darth Vader was partly inspired by Hamlet's ghost in the Olivier version.
May 22, 2005, 3:34 p.m. CST
4, 5, 6, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Crazy? Maybe! Woo-hoo!
May 22, 2005, 3:36 p.m. CST
That would defeat the entire purpose of the saga.
May 22, 2005, 3:36 p.m. CST
I'm not sure where Star Wars fans got this "badass" fixation. Nowhere in the OT do I recall any characters being badass killing machines. Perhaps excepting Vader, but that's the point of doing these prequils, to give us another way of seeing him...a man handicapped by these injuries and his emotions, half the man the Emporer would prefer. Thats why the Emporer needs to court Luke.
May 22, 2005, 3:37 p.m. CST
4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4....forget the rest ever existed.
May 22, 2005, 3:38 p.m. CST
by Jack Gladney
The biggest Futurama-Star Wars connection I can find in Sith is in Vader's "NNNNOOOOOO!!!!," which clearly shows that Anakin went to the Calculon school of acting, or at least that he is an avid viewer of All My Circuits. As for the robots programmed for useless and stupid stuff, maybe the culture in Star Wars just places a great deal of value in the notion of physical comedy. It may be a vital part of Star Wars culture for there to be incidents where people slip on banana peels and do Moe Howard face slaps...it may even be a central (but never referenced) tenent of the Jedi religion. Perhaps those robots were programmed to be goofy because being goofy is essential to Republic/Empire culture.
May 22, 2005, 3:39 p.m. CST
The Jedi Purge everyone already knew about before ROTS happens AFTER it. That Jedi Purge we were expecting is Vader (in the suit) killing off the remaining Jedi scattered around the galaxy.
May 22, 2005, 3:40 p.m. CST
In Episode -1, we find out that Palpatine had a puppy that died when he was a young boy, thus causing him to turn to the dark side of the force. His love for that lil' pup led to the rise of the Empire.
May 22, 2005, 3:47 p.m. CST
This site has pretty much lost all it's original SW fans and Harry like you said ROTS is a masterpiece. But most on this talk back fail to see it because they never did feel the essense SW -- it's myth, it's philosophy etc. Anyway in this movie Lucas shows again that he is a masterful story teller and he can awaken emotions and feelings in you like few can. Spoiler Ahead: Anyways I
May 22, 2005, 4:04 p.m. CST
I guess George Lucas is like Michael Jackson and just cannot seem to resist hurting his children by constantly touching them up. Sorry about that. Surely he'll now have to modify ROTJ to change PL's line about her memory of her 'real mother' now that technology is advanced enough to allow him to render his true vision. Clearly he always meant Leia to say something about her mother dying giving birth but that wasn't possible in the primitive 80's. Anakin's turning. Waytoorushedheturnedfasterthanapintofmilklleftonthesurfaceofthesun. Still, I guess that it's not central to the story or anything... General Grievous. Big fat waste of time. Did nothing to advance the story and took away screen time that could have been given to more important things LIKE ALL THE JEDI BEING WIPED OUT!!! A fuckin' montage? Nice music for that scene though... I REALLY HATED how quickly people moved between worlds. It took me more time to walk home from the cinema than it took for The Emperor to go recover Darth's body. Bet he could shred Han's record for the Kessel Spice Run if he wanted to. In the 'climatic battle', what button did they accidently hit with their 'sabres that caused the foundry to crumble into the lava. It's a strange design feature for any building... Bah!
May 22, 2005, 4:06 p.m. CST
Besides that you people do nothing but nitpick, and I know most of you complainers, went into the movie looking for things to complain about! The only wooden acting done, was done by Porman. Other than that, the acting was average and above average in Ian McDirmids case. Other than that, the other biggest complaint is Anakins turn! It didn't happen right after he helped kill Mace, it was snowballing since episode 2, and when he did help kill Mace that's when the shit hit the fan. Now put yourself in that position, the manipulation by Palpatine was spot on. And now he really didn't have any choice. He was either going to kill, or be killed, and never be able to save his wife. Think about those kids who shoot up schools. They just all of the sudden decide to do it. They didn't just wake up one day and say "Hey I am going to go shoot up a school!" it had been snowballing into that. And to most, there parents, there peers, they seem fine, good kids. Yet most people can't see through the kids seemingly alright exterior to see that there really troubled, same with Anakin, he's been troubled for awhile, and no one by Palpatine saw this. It's not a quick 180 to the darkside, and you have to be a fool to think that.
May 22, 2005, 4:10 p.m. CST
Dr Spock and Captain Kirk? Lucas saving them for another 'special edition' is he?
May 22, 2005, 4:18 p.m. CST
...turned off the shields. Of course, since the metal building needed shields to keep from overheating and melting it's amazing that Obi and Ani could frolic carefree in that hellish atmosphere without melting themselves. Eh. I'm going to go play in the lava now.
May 22, 2005, 4:35 p.m. CST
by Doom II
I am actually one of the few people that DID NOT go into the theater with high hopes, but am very satisfied. I am no longer embarassed to enjoy a Star Wars prequel. I don't care if it makes 500 million or 145 million at the box office. I enjoyed it and look forward to owning it (the Yoda/Palpatine fight will be watched & re-watched a lot in my home). So far, at 2 different Arizona screenings, NO ONE laughed, heckled or made fun of the movie. Those of you that post about audiences "making fun" of the film are full of shit, plain and simple. Either that or the small towns you live in are full of inbred white trash assholes. In fact, as much of a letdown as the last 2 Matrix films were, no one mocked those either (I saw both at the theater opening day). Even Van Helsing, Tomb Raider, The Mummy and The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen...I saw all of these in the theater and heard no mocking or laughing. I am on the lookout for these jesters, but have yet to see or hear them. Are they real? Are Star Wars haters convincing themselves that ROTS sucked? You sure as fuck won't convince me. I see most summer movies, and this one was tits up the best I've seen in a while, Star Wars or not. Sorry I don't hate it. I guess I wasn't looking for a life-changing experience, just some kick ass lightsaber duels and improved dialogue. Was it perfect. No, but it was good enough for me. No movie I've ever seen is perfect (and most are downright horrible). As a huge fan of the original, I sure a looking forward to the Longest Yard remake next week! NOT!
May 22, 2005, 4:42 p.m. CST
it wasn't a bad movie. But it wasn't a great film, either and I'd have to stretch to say it was good. The special effects were stellar, but the poor acting kept taking me out of the story and made me wonder how much better it could have been if the script and direction had been up to snuff. I even thought Sam Jackson wasn't very good in this and that's hard to comprehend. He was even decent in XXX but it felt like he was reading off cue cards in ROTS.
May 22, 2005, 5:02 p.m. CST
by Big Goozoo
Yes, it was terrible. But no worse than Mark Hamill's comedy routine in "Empire" when he punctuated the exact same line with his facial gymnastics and overacting. How easily we forget.
May 22, 2005, 5:11 p.m. CST
The original version was far better in every respect. The new version is not needed and either tears down Vader's character or is just plain ridiculous depending on how you look at it. Of course Vader would have put two and two together by Empire. A Skywalker blew up the Death Star. He's a rebel hero now and well-known throughout the Galaxy, even in the Empire who is chasing him down. He not only shares his last name but he is the right age to be his son, and "The Force is strong with this one" as Vader says HIMSELF in Episode IV. OF COURSE Vader puts two and two together based on this. That's why he's "obsessed with finding young Skywalker" as the opening crawl of Empire tells us, and why he says things like "And I'm sure Skywalker is with them" when single-mindedly pursuing him. He knows part of his family survived, and he is obsessed with retrieving him somehow - at least just meeting him. Having Vader, in the new version, NOT know Luke is his son and having to be told by the Emperor makes him plainly stupid, first of all, and also tears down the whole character arc of him having his humanity touched by the knowledge that he has a son, which starts his character change. If you take it like "he knows, he is just "playing" the Emperor", then that just doesn't make any sense, because the Emperor would KNOW that Vader has put this together by now - it's completely obvious. That makes the Emperor stupid, feeling like he has to tell Vader something so obvious. It's just ridiculous, any way you slice it. It hurts the film badly. Not to mention the fact that the scene is just bad as a scene, too, where the original version was very good. And also not to mention that the original version was just fine how it was - it still fits with the story! We can just read between the lines the obvious - that by now, Vader knows Luke is his Son. So why change it? Just because you can, George Luas?
May 22, 2005, 5:16 p.m. CST
by New in NY
GL: "Um, okay, Ewan ... in this scene, you're really upset with Anakin ... so you say, 'Anakin, I'm really upset with you.' And say it like you're really upset." --- EM: "What's my motivation?" --- GL: "Well, he really upset you!" --- EM: "Ah." --- GL: "Actually, I find things like motivation to be kind of a moot point anyways ... I mean, the audience already knows that you get upset with him. If I wasted time giving you a reason, I'd have to cut that sweet scene with Mc-Blamo Ass-kickicus (my kid made up the name, but I think it reveals something about his character ... he blows shit up and kicks ass!). Anyways, in this scene, the audience will be more focused on this bitch-ass volcano set anyways ... damn, I wish I'd thought of that! So anyways, back to you being upset. That's GOLD! After that, do a few flips! But, be UPSET when you're doing them ... remember, this scene is IMPORTANT! (In fact, maybe I should put a little subtitle at the bottom of the screen ... a caption that says 'IMPORTANT!' in all caps ...)"
May 22, 2005, 5:19 p.m. CST
"McDiarmid was the bomb in Phantom(and AOTC and ROTS)!" *slap! "what's up now..." While I personally didn't think the "NOO" was inappropriate, if he wanted to fix it, I'm not sure if he needs to louden it, or what, maybe try to heighten the emotional exhastion... I feel ROTS is definitely analagous to Othello: A war hero who is totally in love with his wife gets confused by this guy who is supposedly his friend, yet is pure evil, then he does evil deeds, kills his wife. And I guess you can justify the "only a sith deals in absolute" as an absolute in and of itself in the sense that, the Jedi were blinded by their own narrow-minded views, couldn't see the big picture, and succumbed to it.
May 22, 2005, 5:25 p.m. CST
Palp, Obi Wan, and the creepy looking Tarkin at the end.
May 22, 2005, 5:26 p.m. CST
I watched the cool parts of Ep III again and they are pretty cool, but the movie is horribly flawed in so many ways. I've been reading more of these AICN talkbacks, which are entertaining for some reason and people just nitpick every part of the film, but their points are totally valid and I had some of the same thoughts too. I love what was said above about quickly they can jump from one planet to the other and how the killing of the Jedis was just a quick montage..both kinda dumb. And the way that pressing one button caused the whole structure to fall into the lava...wouldn't there be some major backup systems in place??? I thought fanboys would be gushing about this film, but apparently people are fairly objective for the most part and most people are saying it was lame with wooden acting and crappy story with lots of plot holes, etc, and how many contradictions there are with the original films. I guess the fact that people are so passionate about it (and that I'm reading all this stuff) means something, but it may just mean that the first film had a big impact, just like the Matrix sequels generated buzz just because the first one was so good and the sequels sucked so badly. I was thinking about the first SW film and it has some major flaws too and a lot of it is goofy, but I'm not sure if we liked it so much because we were kids or because it was so revolutionary at the time. Adults loved it too, so probably the latter. I always thought the biggest flaw of the first film was how they only send three tie fighters after the rebels at the end when they are trying to blow up the Death Star. They should have sent out a swarm of about 100+ fighters. I guess pre-ILM could barely animate two or three ships in any shot back then though, so I can see how Lucas was somewhat stuck there, but he could have done it better. Also, I always thought it was lame how Han and Chewbaccas chased those Stormtroopers at one point and then turned around and the Stormtroopers were chasing them...it didn't make sense either way...but that was a minor dumb scene. At least the actors in the first films had charisma for the most part and could act. Lucas somehow brings out the worst in the actors in these prequels. Hayden Christiansen is wooden and even Natalie Portman is terrible, and she is at least somewhat talented. I guess maybe the actors try to do a good job and Lucas makes them tone it down until there is nothing down and then he uses that take. Oh well, I still have to say this Ep III is a "good" film compared to most of what I might have to sit through at the theater. "Good" is a relative term and considering it is overall an entertaining film with some very cool sequences, I've got to give it a B+ or maybe an 7.5 out of 10. Compared to ANH, I'd give it a 4, but compared to something like "White Chicks" or "House of Wax", I'd have to give it a 9. So Lucas, for his bad writing and inconsistencies, etc, still managed to produce a cool movie...thank the guys at ILM for most of this though.
May 22, 2005, 5:27 p.m. CST
"But we're still friends, right?" Also, a girl just gives birth to twins, cares enough to name them, but yet still loses her will to live? No will to live? You just gave freaking birth to twins!
May 22, 2005, 5:29 p.m. CST
I don't really have a big problem with this, even though I see why other people detest it so. It didn't come off perfectly, but it was on the lame level as the "Toad" line from "X-Men" or the romantic scenes from AOTC. I think people just don't see Vader loose his cool like that, but that's what Lucas turned him into...a sniveling little bitch who only does bad things because there is ultimately "good in him". He's a ruthless child killer, yet he did it all for love...ok, whatever...
May 22, 2005, 5:30 p.m. CST
I meant to say that it was lame, but not as bad as the Toad line or the scenes of Anakin and Padme in that meadow.
May 22, 2005, 5:32 p.m. CST
Boy, I'm coming across as a retard here or at least a very lazy proofreader. Anyway, I guess Lucas masterminded this film and it is entertaining, so I have to give him props. He does so many things very wrong, but he gets enough right (like the starting space battle) that it still ends up being a fun, albeit frustrating, ride.
May 22, 2005, 5:37 p.m. CST
by New in NY
IMAGINE THIS SCENARIO--- GL: "Oh man, animating this Fighto-StrongDar character is tough work, and I still haven't figured out how Padme dies!" --- [in comes a whistling intern] --- GL: "You, intern! Are you busy?" --- In: "Nope; I was supposed to be touching up the script, but pssshhhh, who gives a flying fuck? We all know what happens, right?" --- GL: "Ha ha, yeah, well, actually ... I need an ending for this. Padme needs to die." --- In: "Um, wait, doesn't Leia say she remembers her mother." -- GL: "Blah blah blah. Look, intern, let's just pretend I'm the Emperor here and you're anonymous clone soldier number 1238498, okay? I say, Padme dies. People dying is dramatic. It's called 'good storytelling.' Now, figure out how she dies! And make sure we can fit it into the last five minutes of the film. This extended fight between Good-heroticus and Bad-guy-dio is going to need another ten minutes to really tell the story I have in mind." --- In: [thinking to himself] "Man oh man, I'm losing the will to live working here for this guy ... [eyes light up] waaaaaaait a minute!"
May 22, 2005, 5:37 p.m. CST
His clothes seem to catch on fire near the lava, but Obi-Wan was standing right above the lava on that little piece of debris and his clothes didn't catch on fire, nor did his skin melt. Oh well, I guess "The Force" protected him. The answer to any flaw in the movies is "because of the mysterious Force made it that way".
May 22, 2005, 5:44 p.m. CST
OK, you could try and B.S. me and tell me it was scenes with Jar Jar (which I also dislike), but the absolutely worst moments are: 1) The pod race announcer moments 2) The Max Rebo Band sequence 3) Anakin and Padme on the space cows 4) The What Have I Done/Join the Emperor on a dime moment 5) Jar Jar's combat silliness during the battle 6) the Jabba scene in A New Hope 7) They find out R2D2s # after he saved the ship in Menace 8)Yoda mentioning Qui Gonn in ROTS but there is no Qui Gonn appearance 9) Anakin made C3PO 10) Yoda thanks Chewbacca and says he will miss them.
May 22, 2005, 5:47 p.m. CST
between leia remembering her REAL mother (and I stress REAL, not adoptive, Luke even repeats it) and padme dying in childbirth. Leia is NOT talking about her adoptive mother, she's talking about Padme. She remembers her through the force. I would assume a great bond is made between an infant strong with the force and its mother at such an intense moment as that. In rotj, leia describes padme through emotions and images (beautiful but sad), all present in the brief moment they share at the end of rots. I'm sure that's a completely conscious choice by Lucas, and it's not a plot hole. And as for padme "losing the will to live", I don't have a problem with that either. The one person she loves more than anything else has just tried to kill her, and she has found out he has toppled the republic, killed all the jedi - even kids, and will now rule the galaxy, and he did it because of her. That's a lot to live with for a young senator. BUT PLEASE: can somebody who knows, who have read the novelization or something, tell me how old OB1 is supposed to be?
May 22, 2005, 5:50 p.m. CST
I'm amazed at how many people hate the new Star Wars flick...what do they want? The prequels aren't any cornier or ridiculous than the OT (I always thought Leia being able to pick off highly trained mercenaries like ducks was pretty laughable) and the latest effects are amazing. I agree that the first three are more fun and I think that's because of Harrison Ford. But the new series revolves around the Jedi who aren't exactly the most fun loving bunch. They needed to be more serious and so we were stuck with typical knightly, melodramatic dialogue. No problem. George wasn't trying to make another "American Beauty"...just a tribute to the old serials and he succeeded beyond my greatest expectations.
May 22, 2005, 5:53 p.m. CST
by New in NY
CAMERON: Oh man ... I wrote in Terminator that only organic materials can travel through time, but the T-1000 doesn't have any organic material ... --- LUCAS: Never fear, Cameron! Just "use The FORCE! (tm)" --- CAMERON: Huh? --- LUCAS: It's easy! Can't fix a plot hole (that you willfully created)? It's The FORCE! (tm) And while we're at it, Emmerich, The FORCE! (tm) can also fix your little computer-compatibility problem. How can an Earth-made laptop communicate with an alien spaceship? You guessed it, The FORCE! (tm) Awesome!
May 22, 2005, 5:54 p.m. CST
...it makes them seem more intellectual than those who love/like it. Sad, really.
May 22, 2005, 5:57 p.m. CST
Obi Wan is a bad ass fighter who was able to remove the legs and arm of the guy who killed Dooku. Obi also killed Darth Maul and General Grievous. So if Dooku as an old man can whip some butt, and The Emperor as an older man can whip some butt, why doesn't Obi Wan stick around in ANH longer? Why instead go, "Welp, the kid that Skywalker kid is watching... I better let Darth kill me and give him a little motivation." He's sat around and waited for 18 years or so in hiding, and his best solution was to let Darth kill him in front of his own son? OK. Cool. Whatever.
May 22, 2005, 5:59 p.m. CST
He let himself get killed, so his power could go into Luke. I thought everyone knew that.
May 22, 2005, 6:01 p.m. CST
Whoops. Wrong franchise. Wait, there wasn't a franchise, only one kick-ass movie. Yeah. One. Like Matrix. Just one.
May 22, 2005, 6:01 p.m. CST
I watched ROTS 3 times. I'm just stunned that a giant production company could allow such stupid things to happen and honestly think us fanboys would say, "Boy that two-headed announcer is just fantastic."
May 22, 2005, 6:04 p.m. CST
OK, it might be in some obscure Star Wars comic book or role playing game somewhere, but there is never a sign that Luke receives any of his power. That is especially in question during the scene where Obi's spirit tries to convince Yoda to train him.
May 22, 2005, 6:04 p.m. CST
Leia was indeed asked about her "real" mother, but why does this mean by default that Leia even knew? She had no clue that she was Leia Skywalker, daughter of a desert slave, and not in fact "Princess Leia Organa of Alderaan." After all; what did Luke think for 65% of the trilogy? That his dad was killed by Darth vader. His closest friend lied. His alleged arch rival told him the truth. Yeah; funny how "truth" works sometimes. So, you may ask; why was Queen Organa described as "sad"...? Well, for starters: she's the leader of a planet with "no weapons" in the middle of an evil empire. She's unable to have kids of her own. Her only daughter is the offspring of an evil Sith lord. That's pretty sad.
May 22, 2005, 6:05 p.m. CST
by New in NY
I'm concerned in general about this tendency to reduce other people's arguments into "hatred." It's not just here - disagree with the President? Oh, that's because you "hate" him. I know this is just a TalkBack for fun, but this whole "hate" argument is seeping into our public discourse ... Look, go rent "Zardoz" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070948/ ... ooooh, you'll be soooo sad you did!) and then come back and tell me how you liked it. I guess if I were John Boorman (the director), I could shoot back at you, "Oh, you're just a hater. HATER HATER HATER." That's all fine and good, if a bit childish, but we have serious news journalists asking politicians (usually Democrats, if not ONLY Democrats) if they "hate" Bush or Republicans or whatever ... I know at least Dean made splashed when he actually said at a rally that he "hated" Republicans, and it's a dumb thing to say! A dumb thing to accuse someone of! A dumb thing to talk about! That's my two cents ... I don't like the films. I have reasons. I won't see them again. It ain't going to change my life in some profound way. I'm not wasting any time "hating" them ... whatever da fuck that even means!
May 22, 2005, 6:06 p.m. CST
the OT is full of them too, maybe most in the best of them all, ESB. It doesn't matter. But still, I've thought a bit about the new dialog in the vader/emperor scene in ESB, and although I much prefer the old version, I believe Lucas had a reason for changing it. My thoughts are: maybe vader didn't realize Luke was his son, even though he heard the name skywalker. I think his conversion to the dark side fucked him up big time in the head. as he said in rotj on hearing his old name: "that name no longer has any meaning to me." It could be that he simply doesn't react to his son's name until palpatine hits him over the head with the facts. it's open for debate, but i think that's a kinda cool possibility, that he's so corrupted by the dark side he actually doesn't see things that are right in front of him. and vader probably wouldn't stop to reconsider that hey palpatine said that I killed padme, then how can my son be alive, so you lied to me palpatine, etc... Besides, Anakin/vader was never the big thinker or strategist anyway. His one big plan of wiping out the rebellion ended with the first death star being blown up.
May 22, 2005, 6:13 p.m. CST
If as a 9 year old he can build his own robots, pods, and figure out how to fly spaceships in a matter of seconds, why is it that he lives as long as he does as Darth Vader and never modifies his costume to do anything kick ass... like shoot lazer or produce energy shields or anything. You think his freetime would be all about upgrading... and trying to sip soup through a straw so he can get nourishment.
May 22, 2005, 6:14 p.m. CST
If Leia was referring to her adopted mother (assuming she thinks that's her real mother) then why does she only remember bits and pieces??? Did her foster mother die when Leia was young as well? If so, that's retarded. Seems Leia has no luck with mothers huh? Alone, these nitpicks are miniscule, but when you tally them all up, you get a series full of logic and plot holes that keep bringing up questions.
May 22, 2005, 6:15 p.m. CST
without being snobbish and irritated by every tiny little detail that doesn't fit into what I would have preferred it to be. I really am. I greatly enjoy all six movies. That feels really good.
May 22, 2005, 6:20 p.m. CST
Us "Haters" as you all keep calling us, (Haters being people who aren't blind to see the weaknesses in ROTS of course) shouldn't be silenced by the people who say LOOK HOW MUCH MONEY IT'S MADE!!! Big box office doesn't mean a great film. quite the opposite ----------> examples INDEPENDENCE DAY THE GRINCH TWISTER ARMAGEDDON THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW TITANIC! For goodness sake Phantom Menace is in the top ten of all time!
May 22, 2005, 6:21 p.m. CST
I think Lucas was originally to have it where Padme remained queen... and then she eventually marries Organa. And sometime in between III and IV The Empire probably killed her. But once it became time to do the prequels Lucas realized how it wouldn't work out and so he came up with what we know now.
May 22, 2005, 6:24 p.m. CST
I enjoyed all of them. Is it REALLY impossible to critique the storyline and still be a fan? When I make comments about stuff I don't understand, it is only so that other people can read my questions and give me their best explanations... which I enjoy reading.
May 22, 2005, 6:29 p.m. CST
ROBIN HOOD PRINCE OF THEIVES... that was a huge hit and possibly the worst film I've ever seen.
May 22, 2005, 6:37 p.m. CST
Isn't it funny how Robin Hood has "Poison Syndrome"... Poison Syndrome... also known as Firehouse Syndrome, Billy Ray Cyrus Disease, or the NKOTB Plague is where a billion people consume the living shit out of something, and then four years later nobody will own up to the fact they were decepted by the hunk of turd in question. Hehe. These bands/people would make $400 billion dollars... but you can't usually find one person to admit to spend a dollar on it. Hehe. Yeah, I saw Prince of Thieves opening weekend. Isn't it amazing that it still continued to draw an audience... even after the initial weekend? Hehe.
May 22, 2005, 6:44 p.m. CST
I'll be the first to admit it. I've seen almost everyone of these movies in that list there. But it doesn't make them good. I saw all the Star Wars movies and Phantom Menace sucks and I saw it three times! I'm going to see Sith again even though I was disappointed by it. I'll probably see it again after that. Doesn't make it a good film just because it makes a ton of money. I love Star Wars (OT) so much that my disappointment with the new ones still can't keep me away.... but Anakin turns into a punk... not Darth Vader... it just gets me so mad. Robin Hood I saw once and it was so bad I wanted to stab my own eyes out.
May 22, 2005, 6:52 p.m. CST
Well, he is.
May 22, 2005, 6:58 p.m. CST
by Neighbor Jim
What my digital cable says about AOTC... "Hayden Christensen, Natalie Portman, (2002), **, Obi-Wan Kenobi (Ewan McGregor) trains Anakin Skywalker (Hayden Christensen) to be a Jedi. Thrilling special effects make up for the stilted dialogue and wooden acting. (Sci-Fi, 143 Mins.).
May 22, 2005, 7:03 p.m. CST
I caught the George Lucas "Hitchcock" cameo. He's standing on the left side of the screen as Anakin is entering the opera. I knew about an actor playing Tarkin in EP3, but I hadn't thought about it till just now. I missed him.
May 22, 2005, 7:08 p.m. CST
by Black Satin 2
I just got back from seeing the film and I felt the transformation Arnikin took to become Darth Vader is fine but a speech or two from Yoda or OBI WAN was missing. Case in point: Star Trek NG. Wesley Crusher is about to get away with a terrible crime at Starfleet Academy and Picard sits him down and tells him how he first came on his ship and in his words, "sat in my chair and acted like he belonged on my ship." In that exchange, Picard shamed him into admitting his involvement in getting another cadet killed. In Star Wars it is all about regret. The biggest regret is that Anikin never had a true father. Palpitine set it up so his surrogaate father, Qui Gon, was killed by his first apprentice, Darth Maul and taken in by OBI WAN. He has propetic dreams in which he can not save the two women in his life, his mother and his wife, Padme and the results damn him. Finally, his decision to aid Darth Sidious leads to the birth of Darth Vader and the destruction of the Jedi Knights. Remember, Anikin became Darth Vader BEFORE he got all ammored up and when OBI WAN has to take him down, he has made up his mind that the good man he was had been consumed by the dark personna he assumed. I agree that the acting could have been better. Did he have to look mean to present evil? No. I believe if someone had remembered the child who built his own pod to win a race so long ago and given him better advice than "control your feelings" and "be patient" then it would have made his transformation stick. As it is, this movie only makes the opportunity a missed one.
May 22, 2005, 7:19 p.m. CST
that women can't look after themselves? Honestly, Padme went from being a kickass fighting queen in TPM to a housewife sitting around waiting to die in ROTS.
May 22, 2005, 7:21 p.m. CST
Can somone answer this question: Why do some Jedi dissolve when they die and others do not? Was this answered in the movie and I missed it? Also, too bad there wasn't a wookie Jedi. Now he would kick ass. Finally, I find it odd that two jedi's can take down a whole ship filled with enemies and battle droids of all kinds. But it takes little to elimiante an entire temple filled with Jedi's. They just aren't making Jedis the way they use too. I also agree having twins should be enough to give someone the will to live, especially in a hostile universe. She just gives up? Non heroic ending for a one time heroic character.
May 22, 2005, 7:23 p.m. CST
I liked Revenge of the Sith okay, but I find the fanboy explanations of Leia's comments in Return of the Jedi pretty weak. One is "The Force"... uh huh. Then why doesn't Luke remember her? One fanboy actually tried to explain that away by saying "because Leia's a girl, and girls are more intuitive!" Bunk. How can one not get how ridiculous that sounds? Lucas screwed up, and instead of being careful with his story just lazily does something in the hopes that fanboys on the internet will carry his water for him. The other "explanation" is the "she is remembering her adoptive Mother rather than the real Mother she thinks she is talking about." Uh huh... That would really ruin that scene in Jedi if so. That scene is supposed to be all about family, and to have Leia go off an a "wrong" description of Luke and Leia's Mother, and make her actually be, unknowingly, talking about her adoptive Mother by mistake is just a laughable idea which would render the scene pointless. Remember, this is a "family" scene, where Luke tells Leia that Vader is his/her Father and that he is her Brother. It's a sweet, personal retelling of their Mother, and it would really make that scene much less effective if the silly fanboy "explanation" was the case, as if Leia was actually not talking about Padme at all, and just going onto some "wrong" flight of fancy. Luke is supposed to be hearing a description of his Mother there, not some fake idea that Leia has mixed up in her mind. It is the only mention of their Mother/Anakin's Wife/Padme in the whole of the Original Trilogy - you guys are actually trying to say the Original Trilogy would include a scene that is basically just a flight of fancy when it's supposed to be talking about Luke and Leia's Mom? The whole idea is just ridiculous. It was quite obviously supposed to be talking about her real mother. With the "new" Trilogy Lucas simply dropped the ball on making that make sense., along with many other things. It's just a big plot hole now, and instead of tailoring his story to what we already know from the Original Trilogy(which is very easy), Lucas leaves a gaping inconsistency up to internet fanboys to try and clumsily explain away. Admit it, it's simply bad storytelling, plain and simple - something Lucas has done quite a lot of in the Prequel Trilogy.
May 22, 2005, 7:30 p.m. CST
by I Dunno
Lucas didn't screw up, he didn't forget that scene. He knows his own movies better than we do. If you really want to scruntinize it, Luke never looked at Padme, Leia did. And then they cut the scene. So Leia and Padme culd have shared a few moments before she died. And Leia didn't remember her. She had "images" and "feelings" that's not memory. If you come away from this awesome movie and this little nitpick is all you got out of it, then well, sorry. These movies are scrutinized more than the Zapruder film.
May 22, 2005, 7:42 p.m. CST
It wasn't done very well or made very clear, but that whole "Jedi dissappearing trick" is merely hinted at. That whole thing of QuiGon coming back to teach Yoda and ObiWan "immortality," is, I believe, a way of surrendering themselves into the force, somehow maintaining their physical shape in a spectral way. That's why Obi and Yoda vanish, they don't die, they surrender to the force. I think. But I'm not the biggest SW researcher, so somebody else might have a better idea
May 22, 2005, 7:51 p.m. CST
by Voice O. Reason
Briana Banks could give you a blowjob and you'd complain she didn't spend enough time licking your ball sack. Yeah, a couple of parts of the movie were silly, but the other 95% of it was really goddamn cool. Relax and try to remember its JUST A MOVIE.
May 22, 2005, 7:51 p.m. CST
by Thirteen 13
Granted it was pretty good, and in a scant few parts very good, and in a few places awful. I actually walked out of this one feeling like I actually saw a Star Wars film rather than an episode of Fraggle Rock with light sabers. There was no way I could have sat through yet another 2 hours and 20 minutes of, winnie the pooh's with light sabers, roger rabbits bonking themsleves off of windows in the jedi council room, ewokes, that dumb fucking retarded fuckwit jar jar, fart jokes, dumbass gung gung parades, glowing balls for a reward, those dumbass crew cuts for jedis, dancing bears, acrobatic machines, midichlorians, virgin births, the list goes on. Revenge of the Sith was pretty good. Oh I wish anyone but Lucas would have made these films.
May 22, 2005, 7:59 p.m. CST
Entertainment Weekly mentioned that Lucas approached Ron Howard and Steven Spielberg to helm the prequels. They both replied that Lucas needed to do it. While granted, the films would have been better, does anybody think that we would be where we are right now with regards to digital filmmaking if Lucas had not directed these films?
May 22, 2005, 8:03 p.m. CST
Thanks for the response, but if I remember right, Qui Gon didn't dissolve he was toasted, like Vader. (Vader's cremation seems to be the conpletion of how is was suppose to die on Mustafar.) It would make sense that if one was required to dissolve into the force so to be able to communicate. That explains Yoda and Obi Wan at the end of Jedi. But what of Anakin and Qui Jon?
May 22, 2005, 8:06 p.m. CST
Just look at the weekend boxoffice. Sure he could've put more blood, sweat, and tears, but clearly joe average doesn't want an emotional core brought out by chemistry amongst the characters. He's (or she's) able to forgive GL's crappy dialogue for flashy-washy's and sparkly-warkly's. Logic, introspective narrative ties, non-linear ploting... Bah! A Jedi craves not these things. Give 'em the damn rollercoaster with no real sense of purpose and they'll gladly call it genius. ROTS was better than the other two PT films. But saying its better is kinda stating the obvious, isn't it? There is no way that GL could fuck this film up? Or could he? It had its moments where greatness peeked through the curtains of blandness. And this is what passes for a tragedy? Naw, that requires that I feel for the character who turns and betrays everything he's believed him. But when the darkside beckons and our hero suddenly says "Sure man, sounds like a blast. I'll join you're little club of two and waste some kids" with very little egging from the peanut gallery, I'm prone to sit back and roll my eyes. I appreciated the fact that GL at least tried to provide a sense of pace and direction for this film but it does not mean that I'm ready to buy into this mediocre result. I'll definately watch this more than say TPM and AOTC, but since I've only been able to sit through them once (each respectively the only time I saw them in theatres) that's really not saying much.
May 22, 2005, 8:10 p.m. CST
Two ways of looking at it. Practically: the whole "anakin not dissapearing" has always been a strange problem. Even as a kid I noticed it. Why does he not dissapear and yet come back as a ghost anyway in Jedi? The only rational I can come up with is that Lucas wanted a cool cremation scene in Jedi. That said, it can be theorized that it took Qui-Gon's spirit time to regain his identity, same with Anakin (who appears right at the end of Jedi) whereas Yoda and Obi-Wan gave themselves willingly (Obi-Wan's ghost is heard IMMEDIATELY after his "death"--"run luke, run!") So I guess the difference is willingness to surrender to the Force. Obi-Wan submits to Vader's blade. Yoda seems to submit as well, when he curls up in his bed and just vanishes. Of course, I could be blowing smoke out of my fanboy ass.
May 22, 2005, 8:19 p.m. CST
Think about it; people zip from one end of the universe to the other not in days but in a matter of hours. Let me go ahead and say that I fucking loved the movie; it was a breath of fresh air compared to the last two movies and felt like a true Star Wars movie. However, didn't it seem like it took no time at all for people to go from world to world, even if they were outlying worlds in the Rim? I mean, yeah, they have Hyperdrive, but still... example: when Anakin is on Mustafar, and Padme goes out to check on him, it takes no time for her to get there. The bodies of the Seperatist leaders Anakin kills haven't cooled yet before Padme arrives, and she sets out pretty much the moment he kills them. Same thing with the Emperor; he fights Yoda the same time he fights Obi-Wan, yet he is able to get to Mustafar in a reasonable enought time to save Vader. Sure, one can assume that perhaps Vader is that much of a bad ass to be able to survive a couple of days on liquid hot MAG-MA after suffering from third degree burns and having his limbs hacked off.. but still, it's highly unlikely. But I'm being nitpicky. one thing I do agree with is that it did seem to quick when Anakin turns to the dark side. He goes from being tempted and uncertain to killing kids in a matter of minutes. I just don't believe that. The only explanation is that after anakin helped kill Mace, he left himself vulnerable to manipulation by the Emperor (hence the wierd inflection of the Emperor's voice when he speaks to Anakin) or it could be that Anakin was in a state of shock, as anyone who helped commit murder would be, and he was desperate to get out of it. The emperor was the only person that could get him out of the jam. After watching it a second time, his fall is more believable, but the first time around I was like, "Wait a minute, that's all it took to convince him? He's dark just like that?" Okay, I'm done; all in all, great movie!
May 22, 2005, 8:21 p.m. CST
by I Dunno
Both Obi Wana nd Yoda disappeared because their role was completed and voluntarally moved on to the "netherworld" of the Force. Anakin was already about to die and didn't need to make the concious decision to move on. As for "MrTotality's" condecending post, I did feel for the characters. I felt Padme's broken heart, Yoda's broken pride, Obi Wan's broken trust and Anakin's broken soul as he lay in the sand, everything he fought for burning away with his body. I don't know, I thought it worked.
May 22, 2005, 8:27 p.m. CST
For those who've and enjoyed this movie, I heartily recommend seeing it in a DLP house. What a difference! Aside from the obvious thing like no messy reel changes, surround popping in & out, scratches or wavering images, this movie LOOKS and SOUNDS fantastic when shown properly. I've seen it 5 times now...4 in a standard theater and once in DLP (hey, it's a four-hour 'round trip to see it that way...but I'll do it again before it leaves that theater!) and for this old fan who saw the original back in '77 as a teen, wore out the VHS's & lazerdiscs and enjoyed 'em again on the big screen in the late '90s (changes 'n all), this last entry worked just fine. I've enjoyed the prequels...each fil has had a distinct style to it and ROTS is no exception. Yes, I went into the midnight show spoiled to the hilt and packed with expectations and other than being a little disappointed that a couple of scenes I'd heard about were AWOL (no there's a problem we didn't have way back when!!), I left the theatre spent, sad, but very pleased with the way it turned out.
May 22, 2005, 8:28 p.m. CST
by I Dunno
...was never an issue in the SW films. In TESB an Imperial guy commented that the Falcon could be on the other side of the galaxy if it jumped. They made it from Hoth to Bespin in a short period of time and Luke went from Tatooine to Dagobah to Sullust in time for the meeting. I can't even do that for 7 miles on a Monday. The SW film never bothered with ETAs. There's too much story to bother with that. That's a Star Trek thing.
May 22, 2005, 8:31 p.m. CST
by I Dunno
I don't think it will get the repeat business that the others had. Most of the unwashed American Idol watching, Mariah Carey listening masses like movies where Owen Wilson stops Jennifer Aniston at the airport and they kiss and live happily ever after to a celine Dion soundtrack, not movies where he kills the girl, loses most of his limbs and is burned alive. I heard too many people whine that the film was "too depressing". I however, will do my part and see it at least 3 more times.
May 22, 2005, 8:32 p.m. CST
I will admit, like them or not, the old obi-bear has a point. Each film does have a very distinct style. And speaking of ROTS, I understand the haters. It's not a perfect film (like the holy Empire). But it's the most operatic, and will go down as many fans fave, I predict. And c'mon, Obi-Wan and Anakin on the shore of the river of fire is just one of the best SW scenes ever. "I hate you!" "I loved you," just rocks.
May 22, 2005, 8:40 p.m. CST
But newborns can't make out heads or tails. Their eyes can't see poop. Their vision develops over time.
May 22, 2005, 8:44 p.m. CST
I know that's saying a lot, but this film just worked for me on pretty much every level, and defintely on more levels than any of the previous films. I've loved all the movies in their own unique way and learned to accept their flaws because I thought the majority of each film was enjoyable. But with ROTS, all I can say is that I think it's the least flawed of all the films, and it topped ESB for me. I loved it and I saw it four times in two days since the midnight showing.
May 22, 2005, 8:54 p.m. CST
The turn started back then with his desire for revenge and his lust for enough power to conquer death. Just because it seemed rushed in Ep3 doesn't mean that the foundation wasn't properly laid.
May 22, 2005, 9:09 p.m. CST
Listen to me very carefully, Leia says she hardly remembers her mother because she is referring to her adoptive mother on alderaan. Or, if you want to nit-pick further, then you can squash that by saying if leia was one with the force then she would have flashbacks of padme. Either way, it works. So you morons that love "discovering" these errors need to get out more often.
May 22, 2005, 9:12 p.m. CST
#1 - The Empire Strikes Back #2 - A New Hope #3 - Return of the Jedi #4 - Revenge of the Sith Tied for 5th - TPM,AOTC
May 22, 2005, 9:15 p.m. CST
Parents that let their kids get on the 'net have no right saying this movie is "too depressing" and "too violent" for kids. Hello?? I grew up watching cartoons where anvils get dumped on a characters head and seeing movies where skeletons run around with swords and look at me know. I'm pretty well balanced. Parents who decide to get all high and mighty are raising their kids to be PUSSIES who will continue to wet the bed at 14. Kids are resilient and strong willed. I don't think this film will fuck with their heads more than the world that awaits them outside the movie theatre. Now THAT'S something to be concerned about.
May 22, 2005, 9:18 p.m. CST
I suggest you all do the same. Titanic, for lack of a better word, SUCKED. Therefore we all should continue to put our money into this film so that it can beat titanic once and for all. :)
May 22, 2005, 9:28 p.m. CST
Why don't you trolls get a life? You sit there at your dad's computer and think of something stupid to say about either: Bush, homosexuality, religion, politics, or some other current event in some lame effort to piss someone off so they can argue with you. You then post more garbage. Stupid trolls, I hope you all die alone in your shitty little cubby space at the YMCA.
May 22, 2005, 9:45 p.m. CST
May 22, 2005, 9:59 p.m. CST
Like many have said, the movie is all right, but it isn't great. However, I think Lucas could have made it great with just a little tweaking. First of all, Anakin should have cut Dooku's head off without prompting from Palpatine. He should have not wined about his part in killing Windu. The pieces were there. His motivations were to save Padme and jealousy about Obi Wan and Padme. By the way, Lucas could have pulled off the passage of time a lot better. If Anakin was going to the dark side to learn how to save Padme, seems awfully odd that he's off putzing around not learning any dark secrets when Padme's like days away from shooting out those babies. Didn't seem all that concerned. Also, that scene where they put the Vader outfit on him...started off good. When that mask goes on and they have the breathing, that was awesome. Then they ruined it with dialogue. Palpatine should have said, "Rise Lord Vader," like in the commercial, and they should have had the table go up to show the face and just end the scene right there. Anakin believed that Padme had turned against him. He tried to kill her. He shouldn't be concerned about her now. That had the potential to be an awesome scene and they screwed it up with that totally wussy reaction. James Earl Jones' voice shouldn't be saying whiny crap. He should be badass all the time, and they ruined that image of Vader that had been built up with the original trilogy. Plus, Hayden Christensen looked totally small in that costume. So, in my view, the movie was close, but these little things really threw it off for me.
May 22, 2005, 10:01 p.m. CST
What the heck was the deal with bringing up Qui-gon right at the end? Loose threads had been tied, but there's another one brought up when the movie is ending. We need another prequel now to clean it up better. Plus, it was pretty lame having Padme die...like she just gave up life because Anakin went to the dark side? Lame.
May 22, 2005, 10:08 p.m. CST
So what this entire series seems to be saying is that the inablity of human beings to come to grip with their own mortality and with loss in generall is the root of evil. Hmm, sounds like Harry Potter and Voldemort and, understandable, almost every myth recorded by mankind. It is hubris, of course, pride, the nature of the first sin in genesis. The ability to slay death, of course, is not for mortals but for Gods--Christ if you're Christian.
May 22, 2005, 10:13 p.m. CST
Okay. So aside from the fact that Dark Helmet's "Nooooooooooooo.....?" was the stupidest moment ever recorded on film. Besides the general laziness on Lucas' part. Like why not invent a reason to wipe C-3po's memory. Here. I'll pull one out of my ass right now. "The robot knows that Carrie Fisher baby and Mark Hamill baby are alive. Wipe it's memory." Done. Aside from the annoyingly cluttered and neon friendly emoticon world that Lucas has turned this once great Universe into. Beside all the crap dialogue, acting, plot points. And the BOREDOM that this movie instills. Isn't anyone else annoyed by the miniscule time this EVIL EMPIRE actually rules the galaxy before the rebels take it down in ROTJ? I mean, do the math. Even if you count the time when Palpatine is manipulating behind the scenes... so.... after AOTC. It's what? 5 years later until ROTS. 10 years at most. And Luke and Leia get born in this one. And how long until "A New Hope"? Lukes's what? 18-19. Shooting womp rats on Tatooine. And what? 27 in Empire. And 30 at the oldest in Jedi. How long does someone last frozen in Carbonite? So the entire reign of the evil, evilest, evil, evil galactic empire lasted a whole 40 years at the MOST. Ohhhhhh. Sccccccaaaaary. No. It's stupid. I mean, what is this Larry's Empire and chicken wings? Seriously. So the last Sith infestation happened 1000 years ago. And how long did that last? A weekend? Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. These prequels should NEVER have been made. Let Gendy Tartosky have the ship. At least that guy has some freaking respect. His Clone Wars make this pile of dog poop look worse than it already is. This movie gives me a headache.
May 22, 2005, 10:32 p.m. CST
I've seen it twice at the Ziegfeld in NYC. Once on Thursday night, with 26 others, and once on Saturday with my family, visting from Boston. The tix I had for Thursday, purchased several weeks back, were $10.50 (gotta love New York!) But the tix I bought earlier this week for Sat. afternoon were $10.75!!! All those extra quarters!!!
May 22, 2005, 10:39 p.m. CST
This is my first and probably last post. I just had to take a second to comment on this talkback. I, too, grew up with Star Wars. I, too, didn't much care for the first couple of films. I thought that this one was a vast improvement, and was almost on par with the original trilogy. But I have to say, even if you didn't like the film, to say that George Lucas raped your childhood is pretty ridiculous. You must have had a pretty sad fucking childhood. I think the bottom line is that the man made the movies he wanted to make. He was under no obligation to make them, certainly didn't need the cash, and probably did it just for the pleasure of doing it. We, likewise, were under no obligation to go see them. Yeah, the "NOOO!" was corny, but damn, dudes, if you saw Empire for the first time right now in this jaded age of film, you would think that a lot of that dialogue was silly as well. We worship the original films because we were kids. And this film came the closest to recapturing that feeling of wonder that the original films breathed into us. Give the man a break. The action was solid, the effect were awesome, the story complex and mature. So the dialogue sucked. Newsbrief: The dialogue always sucked. Why don't you build a filmmaking empire out of nothing? Then you might have a leg to stand on when you bitch. remember, there is a very large segment of our culture that feels that ALL Star Wars movies are queer. Not everyone is a raving fanboy. Be thankful that you can recognize greatness when you see it, be thankful that Lucas gave you all that he has, whether it's your favorite or not, and be hopeful that he will continue working, as you never know what he's going to pull out of his ass next. Besides, you fools, any movie where some evil fucker chops up a bunch of kids with a light saber can't be all that bad, can it?
May 22, 2005, 10:44 p.m. CST
who knows 15 years from now i'll be directing episode 7,8,9. right after hell freezes over and dave letterman tells a funny joke
May 22, 2005, 10:46 p.m. CST
by Catbarf the 5th
Florida... totally fucked up and highly suspect. Bush won in the Supreme Court. Technical Win. Hardly worth treating the guy like the pope over. Meanwhile, I liked the movie. I'm not crazy about the NOOOOOOO part (though I see what George was trying to do... going for a DELIBERATELY awkward James Whale-ish Frankenstein and/or Bride of Frankenstein monster birth sequence... though our ingrained images of Darth Vader's birth just don't jive with George's, and may never... Darth Vader should never be anything but cool, except in ROTJ when he's dying) but I can forgive nearly every other flaw with sincere, heartfelt slack-cutting, as I do lines like "I don't know where you get your delusions, laser brain". The fact is this movie often charmed me to my core (as opposed to total "aw it wasn't THAT bad" denial a la TPM, which didn't last very long... I finally realized it sucked... Clones too). Anyway this is the best of the prequels. Could be seen as the greatest "deleted scene DVD extra" of all time from Ep 4 at worst. It will probably not age entirely well (even in the short term) but it's an undeniable achievment and will probably be talked about and debated for many years.
May 22, 2005, 10:49 p.m. CST
Ok, so I lied about it being the last post... did anyone else thing that Palpatine's story about his Sith master (who could create and sustain life) somehow implied that Anakin was a life that was created? It would explain the whole "imaculate creation" business from the first film, and has a kind of sick logic to it. Perhaps Anakin was created with the sole intention of continuing the Sith line. Perhaps he was always doomed to fall to the dark side because that was his very reason for existence. Perhaps there were a lot of these children created, all different races, throughout the galaxy, strong in the force, with the hopes that one would emerge and become prominent enough to gain the attention of the Sith. Just a thought, but one that I'm surprised that no one else had.
May 22, 2005, 10:59 p.m. CST
I come to you in haste oh, High Council of the opinionated, there has been a great undoing in the halls of moviedom this evening. it is now clear to me that all movie's have taken on the dark facade of the LOTR infestation.it is true even the legendary Star Wars series has fallen victim to the might of sauron and his less than unruly cloaked freinds. Anakin Skywalker: frodo, samwise, and golem all rolled into one little pig in the blanket. frodo hair, crazy yellow darskide eyes. and lava lots of lava. mmmmmmmm lava. reminds me of that ham sandwich i ate this morning, so does star wars. okay Yoda Gandolf was the exactly that. and Aragorn, leigolas, Gimli: Obi, apologetic for not doing his job right. Dark Lord of the Sith sideous who was, yes.. sauron and worm-toungetounge, with a little bit of ent. with yes, ladies and gents his servant and our good freind and Saruman Christopher Lee who once again gets his ass handed to him. oh.. uh head handed to him. whether in the vast lands of Isengard, or a falling space ship in the qurhhh-ahhem galaxy. it's evident that there is still things man must tame in order to "evolve" (jealousy, fear, anger, hate, love, sex, condoms, and freindship) can i do it on monday i'm sensing a disturbance in the force today. another moral dillema has left us all breathles and in search of our true selves. must every movie from here to eternity be FRODO-FIED. if you ask me leave it to beaver.... the dark side, the light side, the gray area, where Neo and his bunch, prance around in bondage wear and shoot guns at things. and of course theres always time for a political melodrama, to refrence our hate filled and enthusiastic times. pass me the freedom fries, if i think of George Bush one more time when imagining refrences in a movie, i'm going to throw up... but mister lucas.. Georgy i really have to hand it to you, you really know how to show us everyhthing we already know, and still leave us Baffled! about the way things really are. life was better when things were simpler, Yoda should never have been CGI, you could have called in the Henson Crew To help you imagine life on another world and make it Real!. Alright.. alright. but the giant F*****ing Iguana? a giant Iguana with sound bites from pitch black. good luck future.. godspeed, alas i thought i knew ye. we all know now that in the future we still won't have acomplished anything great. oh but wait it was in a long time ago in a galaxy far far away... was that before middle earth or after. where do we factor in all of this. can we still alter the future. is there going to be a shadows of the empire movie. can frodo get the ring to mordor. only you can save us. Dorks Rule!
May 22, 2005, 10:59 p.m. CST
I love A New Hope all the way until they escape Mos Eisley. Then I wish it would cut straight to the TK421 part... and then the chase in the halls, then the trash compactor, then cut straight to the final xwing mission. In Empire, I wish they would cut straight to Dagobah, Cloud City, and then Vader Vs. Luke. In Return of the Jedi, I wish they'd cut straight to Yoda with Luke and then the big space battle and Vader Vs. Luke. In Phantom Menace, they should have cut straight to Darth Maul. In Attack of the Clones, they should have had the assassination, the bounty hunter chase, then jumped to the gladiator part... then jumped to the Dooku fighting. In the final one, they should keep the lightsabre battles and all the Emperor parts. If you could fuse all that together, that would be a cool trilogy. Hehe.
May 22, 2005, 11:04 p.m. CST
by Jack Gladney
Ok, I have as much fun as anyone pointing out the plot holes in the Star Wars films, but I have to take issue with the complaints over how Revenge of the Sith suited Vader is scrawnier than he is in any of the other films. The answer is simple, folks: he got fat inside that suit. In Episode III, he's still young and wirey, sure. But don't forget what he turned into by Jedi: a fat bald old man. His bulk was built up over the years he served as the Emperor's number one man, living a life of ease inside of a suit that did everything for him, even his breathing. And once he perfected his long-range choking skills, he didn't even have to exert himself physically to fight. Add in the fact that all he could eat through his faceplate was probably cream of broccoli soup and milkshakes and you've got a pudgy Vader going.
May 22, 2005, 11:06 p.m. CST
Bantha. YES. Tauntaun. YESSSSSSSSS. Dewback. Ah-ight. Boga. BOGA? WTF is that f-ing thing? It's stupid. It's annoying. It sucks. And. Did I mention it SUCKS! Strap a saddle on Jar-jar while you are at it. It was WORSE than that AOTC arena with the frickin' lizard that Anankin and Garden State chickie ride. BOGA! Even the toy is a peice of craptastic garbage!
May 22, 2005, 11:14 p.m. CST
by Darth Philbin
VICTOR FLEMING RAPED MY CHILDHOOD!!!
May 22, 2005, 11:19 p.m. CST
My father had an objection to Anakin killing the young padawan children, and thought choking a pregnant Padme was a bit over the edge. I reminded him that Lucas wanted this film to be dark and to give us the true nature of Darth Vader. Then to quell his feelings I popped in the original trilogy on hid DVD player and told him to watch and listen to the subject matter, because he should get a better sense as to what they were talking about in those films.
May 22, 2005, 11:30 p.m. CST
by hugo boyd
according to some sources at imdb, certain reels of ep. 3 had a scene where yoda talked to quigon in 'force form' which is why he refernced this method of communication to obiwan AND on this reel, yoda is seen on dagobah, going into exile, as obiwan is seen on tatooine... i dont know if this is true or not, but i was just checking, since i figured someone on here would be able to justify this statement...
May 22, 2005, 11:39 p.m. CST
by Voice O. Reason
I've seen hundred of movies with moments stupider than that. Mr. Freeze's dialogue in "Batman and Robin". The entire ending to "Ocean's 12". Remember the part of Tim Burton's "Planet of the Apes" with monkey Abraham Lincoln? "Superman 4", anyone? Ever heard of this movie called "The Omega Code"? If you think anything in STAR WARS was the worst, anything, ever...you need to see more movies.
May 22, 2005, 11:45 p.m. CST
HAHAHAHAHAHA Man that sure made my day!!!
May 22, 2005, 11:46 p.m. CST
I remember during the Count Dooku confrontation, Anakin said something like: "My powers are 10 times greater than before!!"
May 22, 2005, 11:52 p.m. CST
SITH made $125 million in its first three days buddy compared to Spidey's $114 million. You can go cry now.
May 22, 2005, 11:57 p.m. CST
Episode 3 provided us with the one connection that was needed to justify making a prequel to the original trilogy. It's too bad we had to waste a lot of time to get to that connection(the planet coooooorrrre, pod racing, Anakin riding space-cows, 'i'm beside myself', etc.) Regardless, we got the payoff. The Obi-Wan/Anakin battle and the transformation sequence sealed the deal. The duel was superb in every way, right down to Anakin's arrogance at the end. And when he shows fear as that mask is coming down, and how his first question when he stands up is 'where's Padme, is she ok?' in that booming, yet somehow now vulnerable voice, I for one can now see little Ani through the suit. This movie added so much to the OT, Vader means so much more now. Kudos for Episode 3, the good outweighs the bad.
May 23, 2005, midnight CST
I felt like Darth Vader the morning after I saw ROTS. Lumbering out of my bed, one leg awkwardly stumbling in front of the other, my arms outstretched, thoughts of the film raced around in my head until I could only lift it back and scream, "Nooooooooo!" He ruined it. That's right. After all this, after all the hype, after all the fucking excuses, George Lucas coughed up yet another steamy pile of cinematic vomit thinly veiled as a Star Wars installment. Oh, but we'll forget all that. There was so much stuff to be thankful for, like the... uh, the... scene where... hmm. Well, Chewbacca was in it, and Jar Jar Binks only had a cameo! Lucas actually listened! BEST FUCKING MOVIE EVER, FUCK YOU HATERS wOOt!!! Ugh. That is the rhetoric of bitter fools. This film--and the two films before it--were utter dreck. Surprisingly, the acting and the pacing and, oh fuck it, EVERYTHING got worse as the story got better. It's like a 13-year-old kid masturbating for the first time, all of that work finally paying off in one, overlong spasm of uncontrollable sensation that's been eagerly anticipated for a long time. And just like that kid, at the end, all ROTS leaves is a big, embarrassing mess and an empty sensation. Nothing worked in Episode III. From Anakin's turn to the slaughter of the Jedi to the rise of the Empire--nothing was effective. How is that possible? This is the stuff film geeks have been pining after for years, and Lucas is just going to leave them hanging like that? Fuck him. He doesn't care. It's like he wrote the script to this movie on the bus to school. Every important segment is glossed over, handled in a simple two-line dialogue, and then cast off. "Fucking nerds," he probably thought. "They know all this anyway. No need to waste my valuable ship-landing time." And, oh boy, do they land. That's what so awful about these films. It's all visuals and no voice. You could watch these movies on mute and understand everything, plus do yourself a favor by cutting out every bit of wooden dialogue. There is no drama here, no passion, just actors going through the motions while spaceships zip past and something else explodes. What we, the fans, wanted was a return to the original trilogy. The most exciting scenes in ROTS do take place in the last five minutes, sure, but it's the sets and the costumes--a complete return to the original form--that causes excitement. Lucas didn't get it. We didn't want him to reinvent Star Wars. We loved the sets, the costumes, the PUPPETS, and the fucking story most of all. He went and fucked all of it up, every last bit until the only recognizable thing about Star Wars in its original form is hocking Cingular phones on TV.
May 23, 2005, midnight CST
Ya think? Incidentally, I knew exactly which tools I saw the movie with were patrons of this site, because, right on cue they said how the "NOOOOO!" line was "like, the stupidest decison ever" and because they booed when Padme said "you're breaking my heart."
May 23, 2005, 12:02 a.m. CST
"hahaha 'Sith' didn't even beat the number one opening three-day weekend tally of all time. Eat it, Lucas." Yeah, you sure showed him. Idiot.
May 23, 2005, 12:09 a.m. CST
by Catbarf the 5th
...that's why the NOOOOO scene is getting such a strong reaction. I don't think people are "overreacting" to it because there are other stupid moments in other movies that go uncommented upon. This isn't Jar Jar tying his shoes. This is a moment many fans have been waiting for since 1977. It didn't meet expectations. We wanted Darth born mean and confident and instead it was more like seeing the Joker rising from that legendary vat of chemicals. A messy and tragicomic birth. Was it a bad idea? I don't know... "I am your father" and Luke & Leia being siblings seemed pretty weird at the time too. Lucas seems to be deliberately changing our perception of Vader with EVERY movie since Ep 4, not just this one. For better or worse, maybe it's all going according to his master plan, whatever that is. Lucas has gone on record before the movie even came out that he made that scene deliberately awkward. It was a choice, not a plain old goof. A bad choice? Time will tell. It's certainly getting a big reaction. I didn't exactly like it but I find the whole thing kind of interesting as bizarre Lucas choices go.
May 23, 2005, 12:11 a.m. CST
Yeah, 'Revenge of the Sith' isn't going to be the best movie ever because those darned "unwashed" can't appreciate art, especially when it's depressing. You keep telling yourself that. By the way, what happened at the end of 'Titanic?' I'm pretty sure Leonardo DiCaprio didn't stop Kate Winslet at an airport an propose...
May 23, 2005, 12:15 a.m. CST
First of all, you should "know" why you hated it. I "think" you do in your heart of hearts and just don't want to admit it to yourself. But I also "think" people are responding so negatively to the "NOOOOOOOOO!" scene because they expect too much from Star Wars and, more specifically, they expect Darth Vader to be a total badass. Only a Sith deals in absolutes. Incidentally, I'm pretty sure there have been plenty of movies where people have screamed "NOOOOOO!" and I'm pretty sure they all sounded just as lame as the one in Episode III did.
May 23, 2005, 12:15 a.m. CST
The problem is the film isn't depressing enough. The last scene of the film is way too cheery.
May 23, 2005, 12:20 a.m. CST
I'd say that's not "the" problem, but it's a problem. But I'm not sure what that had to do with what I was talking about.
May 23, 2005, 12:25 a.m. CST
Luke: "Leia. do you remember your mother? YOUR REAL MOTHER?" Leia: "Just a little bit. She died when I was very young. She was beautiful but sad. Why are you asking me this? Luke: I have no memory of my mother." And the scene continues. If Leia remember Padme I doubt she would remember her as "sad" she would remember her as choking to death and dying. Notice also tht Luke asks Leia about her mother and then MORE specifically about her REAL mother, implying that he knows Leia was raised by the Organa's, but that he ALSO knows that Mrs Organa is not her REAL mother. Stop trying to justify it guys. It's yet another plot flaw due to nothing more than simple poor writing on GL's behalf. Cheers.
May 23, 2005, 12:26 a.m. CST
"Yeah, 'Revenge of the Sith' isn't going to be the best movie ever because those darned "unwashed" can't appreciate art, especially when it's depressing. You keep telling yourself that. By the way, what happened at the end of 'Titanic?' I'm pretty sure Leonardo DiCaprio didn't stop Kate Winslet at an airport an propose..." That's what I was directing my comment at.
May 23, 2005, 12:27 a.m. CST
by Voice O. Reason
What I'm seeing is that there's a fairly vocal minority that would rather obsess over the 3 things Lucas did wrong with this movie than acknowledge the 30 things he did right. I've heard and read people say they didn't really like the movie over the most non-consequential things, such as the super-battle droids being given cartoony voices, General Grievous coughing, or the aforementioned Vader yell (which FYI, was an homage to monster movies of the 1930s). There are some legitimate complaints out there from people regarding how Anakin transitioned to evil...but 90% of the criticism has been over seriously trivial BS.
May 23, 2005, 12:28 a.m. CST
by Catbarf the 5th
Loved the creepy robo-medical Vader-assembly scene and mutilated Anakin looking terrified and confused as his limbs are replaced. The subjective POV shot of the mask coming down on Anakin's face is chilling, as is that last-second expression of fear and uncertainty (regret?) on his face as the mask comes down with a final-as-death ka-thunk and Anakin Skywalker is gone forever, but for a fleeting moment of redemption with his son in 25 or so years just before he dies. The audience cheered when Vader drew his first mechanical breath. All of that struck me as damn near perfect. At least we have that, even if some of us (maybe me included, I don't know yet) can't get over the NOOOOO thing (and the fact that some geeks in the audience had more convincing Vader outfits than Hayden C did). That one is still being processed in my mental detoxification and rationalization center, trying to make it OK. I can *rationalize* it (see above posts), but I can't quite like it. Not so of the rest of the scene. Pretty killer.
May 23, 2005, 12:31 a.m. CST
by Billy Ho
We don't need a fucking homage at the climax of the trilogy. That is a serious problem. I don't have any serious problems with the rest of the flick.
May 23, 2005, 12:36 a.m. CST
by Billy Ho
awesome! That's why the yell was such a let down, things were going soooo well....
May 23, 2005, 12:41 a.m. CST
It looked to me like he had organs and junk underneath that robo-chest of his. If this is something that's been addressed further up the TalkBack, I'm sorry to say that even I don't have enough free time to look over the whole damn thing.
May 23, 2005, 12:43 a.m. CST
by Voice O. Reason
I'll admit the way the scene was shot seemed inappropriate (him yelling "NO!!!!" was not wrong, just the way it was filmed), but I'm willing to put it in perspective and not let it ruin the rest of the movie for me.
May 23, 2005, 12:44 a.m. CST
That was in response to someone else's post, who leveled the charge that people thought it was too depressing. I'm pretty sure you're not going to find many people who think it wasn't depressing enough. I can understand that you thought it was the problem, but I guess going back to what I said earlier, it's a problem, not THE problem as far as I'm concerned. But it's certainly not what's stopping it from outgrossing 'Titanic' in B.O. totals.
May 23, 2005, 12:46 a.m. CST
Yeah, I wasn't saying it was THE problem either. There were a lot of problems, all of them equally as damning as that one.
May 23, 2005, 12:49 a.m. CST
Now by "apologists" do you mean "revisionist apologists" or just, anyone who apologizes for Lucas in general? Because I can be construed as an apologist for defending certain aspects of the movie from the angry nerds on this TalkBack, but I don't condone, and actually thought it was kind of ridiculous how much of the third movie seemed to fly in the face of history already established. That's the problem with having barely any creative input, I suppose; any other production probably would have caught all of them before the script even shot.
May 23, 2005, 1:18 a.m. CST
Lucas owed it to his legacy as a film maker to keep some of the suspense in his saga. From the moment I heard of the prequels I thought he needs to keep Anakins fate a mystery for future generations. Others have talked about how this could have been done. I would further suggest that with some reediting the twins surprise could have worked. A couple times the camera angle shifted to outside the delivery room, from Yoda's POV or something. This is what he should have been done in place of showing Padme naming the kids. We see she has twins, but the sex of the children and their names are not revealed. Then instead of Bail saying "I'll take the girl. We always wanted to adopt a girl", the scene should have gone something like this.....cut to Bail with the child in his arms. Obi says "The child must be kept safe" Bail replies "Master Kenobi I will guard this young one with my life. What of the other child?" Obi then says his line about taking him to live with his relatives. So from this exchange we learn that one of the twins is male and that Obi is taking him to Tatooine...the other is going to live with Bail Organa who for all we know has 10 kids already. During Ep 4 a first time viewer could suspect that Leia is the other child but will not truely find out until Ep 6...........
May 23, 2005, 1:28 a.m. CST
by Bino White
If you care, my two cents (along with links to short movies arguably better than all three prequels) are here. http://joehanson.blogspot.com/ Wu-Tang Forever.
May 23, 2005, 1:31 a.m. CST
I suppose there was no way that Revenge of the Sith could live up to its expectations - even considering that they were greatly lowered by its two predecessors, but somehow Lucas managed to top (or rather bottom) himself again. How could anyone fumble the ball on a "paint-by-the-numbers", idiot-proof movie like Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith? I actually felt embarrassed for the very talented cast of actors forced to spout the incredibly bad dialogue written for this film. Furthermore, the motivation for Anakin turning to the dark side and murdering children was completely ridiculous and unbelievable. Order 66? Are you serious? I know that 666 would not have been subtle enough (ooh, so evil), but what were orders 1 - 65? It's like Plan 9 from Outer Space. What happened to the other 8 plans? lol There is so much wrong with this film that I don't even have the space to go into it here. Suffice to say, I think that they could have taken the last half hour of this film, scrap the rest of the entire prequel trilogy, and just insert it into Return of the Jedi as a voice-over flashback during the Luke/Obi Wan's ghost conversation sequence on Dagobah(sp?). It would have saved us all a lot of time and disappointment.
May 23, 2005, 1:35 a.m. CST
Aunt Beru was bangin, yo.
May 23, 2005, 1:37 a.m. CST
I'm going to have to watch them all in a row, and decide whether it will be appropriate to introduce Star Wars as 4, 5, 6, 1, 2, 3, or in order... I'm still leaning on OT then NT, especially since 2/3rds of the NT sucks donkey coos.
May 23, 2005, 1:55 a.m. CST
Admittedly, the bellowed regret was a cringe worthy moment the first time around. Maybe in subsequent viewings, knowing that it's coming, it won't be so bad. I really dug the Frankenstein walk and the raw force destruction, and the shots of the mask coming down were some of the most powerful in the saga, but I think the delivery could have been more akin to Vader's groan/scream at the end of Jedi when he loses his hand. A little more pained, less broad. Palpatine telling Vader that he killed Padme (certainly true from a certain point of view) was a strong choice, and it gave some credence to Vader saving Luke at the end of Jedi - a moment I always saw as abrupt. As far as Leia remembering her mother, I had read something a long time ago that after Leia was adopted by the Organa's, a still living Padme was "undercover" more or less as one of the handmaidens before she did finally die. That would have been an equal irony, echoing when she posed as a handmaiden when she was actually queen. This would have justified Leia's memories, but whether she can "force feel" these images or if she just remembers Organa's wife - I'll buy either one. I'm surprised at the complete lack of suspension of disbelief some people refuse to employ when watching a fantasy of this magnitude. Killing Padme on screen was pretty brave, and her funeral a nice counterpoint to the Naboo parade in TPM. The medical droid addressing her will to live was just the kind of near surrealism Lucas sometimes slips in that I enjoy. If only he had said she was dying of a broken heart, everyone would bitch, but I for one like it when droids get a little poetic. Another little detail I liked - R2 retaining his memory. Explains why he knows exactly which way to go on Tatooine in ANH.
May 23, 2005, 1:56 a.m. CST
by Bill Maher
What's even more annoying is all you big fat fags whining because there's no bullet time is Star Wars.... .... .... well... ... ... FUCK YOU! Bullet time might be cool to you pud-flogging imbeciles who still the the Matrix is cool, but everyone else knows it surpassed SMELLOVISION as the lamest gimmick in movie history. Here's a hint: Guys in trechcoats running around and shooting people stopped being cool at Columbine. Bullet time is more dated than Mambo Number Five, but at least Lou Bega has a hot chick shaking her big bouncy ass... Oh like that would matter to you bullet time cocksuckers!
May 23, 2005, 2:01 a.m. CST
The fall of Anakin starts long before that fateful moment with Mace Windu. That is just the final step. It started with the Tuskin Raider massacre and the crucial point was the marriage to Padme. That was a huge slap in the face to the Jedi Order. Just wanted to point that out to Riccage. Also don't forget lopping off the dome of a defenseless Dooku.
May 23, 2005, 2:02 a.m. CST
by Bill Maher
You are all Lucas' little piglet bitches. "I hate Lucas! WAAAAAAH!" is all I heard from you fucktards -while standing in line behind me waiting to get into the fucking theatre or sitting throught the credits and blocking the walkways with your lardasses while normal people like me try to leave (you know, when the credits roll, it's the polite way of saying "Show's Over -now get the fuck out of here!) without you fat tubs of goo crushing our children. You whining sows make me sick, so fuck you.
May 23, 2005, 2:08 a.m. CST
May 23, 2005, 2:13 a.m. CST
First of all, Liea just has FLASHES and feelings of her mother not true memories. Lucas remembers what he wrote and what was said- stop reading the way YOU think he should have done it, and concentrate on what HE has done. The other thing... Anakin did NOT turn suddenly. He's developed over THREE movies. It's all there if you just look. Lucas is done and made his masterpiece. Time will tell if it shall last.
May 23, 2005, 2:19 a.m. CST
My thoughts; http://www.tpsreport.co.uk/news/fullnews.php?id=123
May 23, 2005, 2:33 a.m. CST
Sure the bottomline is the amount of money it was gonna make. It's the last freakin SW movie, everyone was gonna see it anyway the mainstream movie goer and the fans, that was a given. But look at what the mainstream movie goer makes number one every week, mostly shit movies. It's already been proven the mainstream movie goer will see anything, no matter how bad it is. The mainstream movie goer will see anything new that comes out on Friday. Hey put Will Smith in it, boom, number one. Put J. Lo in it, boom, number one. Let Michael Bay direct, boom, number one. When this crappy remake of The Longest Yard comes out, it'll be number one too. The mainstream movie goer has ruined the movie going experience. The mainstream movie goer doesn't know good from bad. If it's got action and overblown FX, it apparently "kicks ass." The mainstream movie goer makes Hollywood produce shit, because they know they will see it. However, in most cases the mainstream movie goer does not equate to repeat business. SW is SW, it's gonna make money no matter what. Bottom line is, it should have completed the great movie saga in history. Instead, it was just another lousey summer blockbuster.
May 23, 2005, 3:03 a.m. CST
I mean, after all...they ARE family! Lucas really dropped the ball by not showing us chewbacca's extended family. oh well, maybe he's saving it for the DVD. http://www.stomptokyo.com/movies/star-wars-holiday-special.html
May 23, 2005, 3:08 a.m. CST
How many people who love ROTS hated Sky Captain? It seems to me, when you really strip it all down to the core quality, they both measure about the same. Question the second: how many people now poo-pooing on those who point out the inconsistencies between OT & PT were up in arms over "Greedo shoots first"? I enjoyed ROTS, but recognize its flaws (and the flaws of the entire PT). The PT is not now, nor will ever be, as good as the OT. Before you give me the whole "look through your young self's eyes" argument, I'll give you this: My wife watched the OT for the first time right before Phantom Menace came out. In one sitting. She loved it. Looooved it. She has no desire to see ROTS because she felt Phantom & AOTC were pretty awful films. So you see, it's not just that I (and so many others) have become jaded and cynical, it's that there's just something missing from these films that was there before. It doesn't make me mad, I don't think Lucas raped my childhood; it just makes me a little sad. To me, the biggest mistake was the characterization of Anakin in AOTC. If he had been portrayed as a confident, almost cocky teenager who was very sure just how powerful he was, and confidently wooed Padme, it would have made his tumble more acceptable in my opinion. If you love the PT, I'm happy for you. Just please don't be so hateful to those who didn't. Unless they're jackasses. Then feel free to verbally crucify them. That is all. May the Force be with you all.
May 23, 2005, 3:11 a.m. CST
Someone who deserves a lot of credit and isn't being mentioned is, John Williams. His tragic music, like the track Anakin's Betrayal, which is used through out ROTS, with much effect. Helps elevate this movie to greatness. I cry almost everytime I hear it. Watching Yoda climb on Chewbacca's back with that music. It was so sad to see Yoda like that and when he says, "goodbye Chewbacca" He gets in his little podship and we know it'll be one the last times we ever see him. It was just so sad. Well, after having seen it about 10 times now. I gotta say, the acting is uneven, but thankfully it's good at the right times, minus the awful vader scream of, NOOO! That is the cheesiest cornball scream ever, hehe. I'll give you an example. When Anakin & Obi-Wan are lava surfing. They have a small verbal confrontation. It's awful and almost throws the whole duel sequence into turmoil. Obi-Wan - I have failed you Anakin. I failed you. Anakin - I should have known the Jedi were plotting to take over. (Duh. I guess you should have?) Obi-Wan - Anakin! Chancellor Palpatine is Evil! Anakin - From my point of view the Jedi are evil (You did not just say that. I mean, are they Anakin? Since when? Where is this coming from?) Obi-Wan - Well then you are lost!!! (hahaha!) Weee! lets go lava surfing come on and safari with me. Thankfully the scene ends with strong performances, when it most needs too. Anakin's "I HATE YOU!" is so gut wrenchingly effective, that you almost forget all his bad acting from the previous movie and for the first time. You feel his pain, but is it a little bit too late? Either way this last scene between Anakin & Obi-Wan is amazing and again, listen to William's music. It helps elevate an already great scene to bigger heights. (Anakin has his arm and limbs cutoff by Obi-Wan. Anakin waddles on the ground like a baby seal. Screaming in agony.) Anakin - You were the choosen. It was said you'd destroy the sith, not join them...bring balance to the force, not leave it in drkness. Anakin - I HATE YOU!!! Obi-Wan - You were my brother Anakin. I loved you. Anakin (Burning Alive) Argh! NOOO! AHHH! (Obi-Wan walks away.) It's scenes like that and the Jedi Purge, Anakin & Padme looking out their windows at each other. Mace getting shot out the window like a rocket. Darth Sidious disturbing behavior and cackling sounds. The sound the Boga makes that Obi-Wan rides, to name a few. It's unforgettable stuff, is it a perfect movie? No. Is it the best prequel made, yes by far!, and here's my main reason why. Ever since ROTJ, every SW movie had ended with a huge battle. I was sick of that, from Ewoks against Stormtroopers, to Gugans against Droids, to Clonetroopers against Droids. ROTS had a real story with different layers and it didn't end with a big war, but with tragedy, much like Empire.
May 23, 2005, 3:15 a.m. CST
..... and i thought it was fucking excellent - there's no way that lucas won't make the sequel trilogy now.
May 23, 2005, 3:32 a.m. CST
Is it me or does the moon/planet where Yoda and Obi Wan are at after the Duel(s) looked like the moon in 2001??? even the aliens there seem to have orange costumes with helmet looking heads. the only thing missing was the black obelisk.
May 23, 2005, 3:37 a.m. CST
Fuckin ridiculous, that scene was.
May 23, 2005, 3:38 a.m. CST
I serioulsy was expecting Palpatine to laugh maniacally and say "It's Alive, It's alive"!!!!
May 23, 2005, 3:51 a.m. CST
and all the other people who liked this movie for some reason or another, and complain that i dont like this movie because i have a thousand trivial problems. one out of many things i learned in film school is: "God is in the details" not to mention lucas fucked up not just the little things but almost everything. i already have commented on many the problems and yes i still am going to buy this movie and watch it in theatres multiple times but here is one more thing to think about it, what the fuck was the point of the wookie planet? just to show chewbacca? to throw a bone to the fans, really, think about it, yoda could have gone anywhere.... lucas has fallen as a filmmaker, and im sorry to say that.
May 23, 2005, 4:01 a.m. CST
Some people are overanalyzing about the whole "Wookie" thing. Every Jedi was sent alone to a separate planet, along with a Clone Army they were allegedly
May 23, 2005, 4:15 a.m. CST
Still didn't like the movie that much.
May 23, 2005, 4:17 a.m. CST
did Luke not suffer any scarring from the prolonged force lightning strikes he received in ROTJ? Was I the only one who though Padme looked very slight for someone carrying twins at obviously an advanced stage of pregnancy?
May 23, 2005, 4:28 a.m. CST
this fil needed its director and writer to seriously think about what needed to be done, dramatically and storytelling wise, this film could have no amusement as long as lucas sat down, did his homework on what need to be filled in from 2 to 4 and figure out the best way to do it. fuck amusement, i wanted a star wars film that made sense
May 23, 2005, 4:30 a.m. CST
if lucas did such a great job then why is there so many questions needed to be filled in by fanboys and more importantly, if he did a halfway decent job then why is there more than one answer to each question, plain and simple: lucas fucked up. stop making excuses, let it be.
May 23, 2005, 4:32 a.m. CST
by Thirteen 13
I know Star Wars fanatics, especially that idiot Powermetal1, who for some reason still LOVE Phantom Menace and Attack of the clones, and are trying to paint the haters with this image that all the haters have no life, and have personality problems, blah blah blah. Well not true. That one ain't gonna hold up. Because if your an adult, and you still adore The Phantom Menace, that pretty much puts you in the mold of virgin, living with their parents in their basement. All the haters ever wanted was Star Wars movie. Seeing how thats not what was delivered then a little advance warning would have been nice. They could put it right there below the MPAA rating. It would say "For ages 6 and under". That would have saved a whole lot of grief and time. Now having said that, Revenge of the Sith is pretty good. Not great, just pretty good.
May 23, 2005, 4:33 a.m. CST
(I.E. ending Sith after Obi Wan leaves him and shifting the armour fitting to Jedi flashback) Sound good in theory, and Dumb Ape makes a strong case too. However i'm not convinced it would work. For a start, leaving Anakin burning and yelling would be a bit of a let down of a finale for a central character we've invested 7 hours in. 'Oh, well I guess he dies there then'. For that matter, from that point, through all of a New Hope, until the reveal at the end of Empire the audience would be thinking 'why have we just seen 3 complete films about Luke's dad'. There's no link, story wise. Sure, it would add impact to that moment but just further detracts from the original Episode IV as a standalone movie rather than part of the 'Anakin saga'. Plus that line from Obi Wan in ANH along the lines of "Darth Vader who was a pupil of mine killed your father" would have to go (more story complications), along with all the references to Vader in Sith. In short, the best viewing order is the originals then prequels (then originals :). Not like starting a novel half way, more like an extended flashback.
May 23, 2005, 4:33 a.m. CST
Full circle baby. That was a fitting end. It truly does make me love the series more than ever. Ewan McGregor was amazing as Obi-wan. I now see why chicks dig him (though I don't in that way). Remember, some poor Star Wars loving bastards died before they could see this picture. Count yourselves among the lucky who did.
May 23, 2005, 4:54 a.m. CST
Just to show I don't swallow or suck up. That chick is so lame it is laughable. The large segment of the "crowd" that wants a half-hot chick who is acceptable to mother is why she is in movies. So unbelievably lame. Died from shitty acting more like it.
May 23, 2005, 4:57 a.m. CST
She is at least on par with that friggen lame bone ass Portman. Don't breasts grow during pregnancy?
May 23, 2005, 5:03 a.m. CST
Portman is a shitty actress. Playing a stripper was quite a stretch when many gentlemen prefer tits. Get the Similac for Luke and Leia no matter what... those teats don't treat.
May 23, 2005, 5:20 a.m. CST
What's with Portman and the legs bound together birthing? Them heads is HUGE. I seen em and it ain't pretty! (Bigger than you Portman fans certainly). I can just see that no-tit, no nudity "stripper" saying: "Eeeck, you can't show my legs spread, I'm Natalie Hersh...Portman!"
May 23, 2005, 5:41 a.m. CST
Too much flesh? What flesh? Bones aren't flesh. And a rib cage certainly isn't breasts. Lets see...hummm..who would have played that scene for all it was worth? Jessica Simpson arched back, with her chest heaving in the throes of delivering TWINS no less. Jessica Simpson could have played Padme with more emotion! (and she at least has the rack to make us cry if she died).
May 23, 2005, 5:42 a.m. CST
Sick of it. I didn't care about the characters. The writing was horrible. The movie was just not entertaining.
May 23, 2005, 5:53 a.m. CST
i like that man! ; )
May 23, 2005, 5:55 a.m. CST
I thought Star Trek's Mr. Spock was going to show up to challenge Anakin to fight to the death to win her hand. When you judge Hayden remember he had to play off that skeletal robot. Everytime I saw that lame-o "actress" I was instantly transported back to the sticky (Portman fans to blame?) floored multiplex.
May 23, 2005, 6:02 a.m. CST
You're right mate - ABSOLUTELY FUCKING LOVED IT - I had read that a lot of people were slagging off the r2 bits at the beginning, but i thought they were fucking cool man!!!! - just hearing r2's scream brought back a lot of memories - I've seen it twice at the cinema now, and have 'acquired' the very good (apart from the ****ing timer along the top) dvd copy - it stands up to multiple viewings. SOUNDS GAY, BUT DID ANYONE ELSE GET THAT SHIVER UP THEIR SPINE JUST AFTER THE 'FOX FANFARE' JUST BEFORE THE SW THEM STARTED UP?????
May 23, 2005, 6:12 a.m. CST
... I MEANT TO TYPE 'THEME' NOT 'THEM' what a wanker
May 23, 2005, 6:13 a.m. CST
by Koji Kabuto
LOVED: *The massive close-up of Vader's helmet sealing shut for the first time, and his first breaths* *The cross-cutting between the birth of Vader and the birth of the twins* *The Godfather-esque Order 66 scenes* *"I hate you"* HATED: *Padme - a wet fish of a character* *Bail Organa - utterly superfluous* *"Noooooooooo!"* *That fucking little brat saying "Master Anakin, there's too many of them; what are we going to do?"* WOULD HAVE PREFERRED: *James Earl Jones to have a little more conviction, a little more fucking balls with the "No" line. That should have been him tearing his throat out, what maybe starts out as a "No" becoming a primal scream, a guttural roar. That would have sold me on that moment and that character arc.* *More Moff Tarkin! Where the fuck did he go? 2 shots?* *More Kit Fisto. I think he rocks harder than Mace Windu, myself - and weren't Ki-Adi Mundi and that bitch Jedi a bit pathetic?* *The Duel - bit crap. Would have like to have seen Anakin gradually gaining scars- first the one on his cheek, then the one across his head, and only then lopping his arms and legs off and toasting him* GLAD THEY CHANGED: *Vader's arms being strapped up to being strapped down - doesn't look as pathetic* (although when he crosses his arms at the end of the movie he was swimming in the suit)
May 23, 2005, 6:16 a.m. CST
in episode 7 we'll see that padme's tits have been cloned and grown to massive proportions. the tits will get their 'revenge' on luke skywalker- the son of the man who got her up the spout, and then strangled her- by titwanking him to death (REMEMBER WHERE YOU READ THIS FIRST).
May 23, 2005, 6:17 a.m. CST
By apologists, I meant those who defend EVERYTHING GL has ever done either in this or any of the prequels and not suprisingly they are littered through this tb, along with retards like Powermetal. Mate, Vader "owned" Obi-Wan did he? Did you miss the bit where Obi-Wan drops his lightsaber and ALLOWS Vader to strike him down? I suppose you also missed the bit where his body disappears immediately eh? Unlike all the other Jedi who's remains "remain" where they dropped. I don't know why I'm bothering. This shit is so simple and straight-forward I don't know why I'm bothering to argue this. If the blatantly obvious escapes your grasp nothing I can write is going to change any of the (closed) minds around here... Cheers.
May 23, 2005, 6:24 a.m. CST
COULDNT HAVE PUT IT BETTER MYSELF MATE ; D EPS7-9 WILL HAPPEN
May 23, 2005, 6:24 a.m. CST
Watch her...she almost laughs at times. She either doesn't buy into her role OR...she utterly sucks as an actress. I'd go with the latter.
May 23, 2005, 6:24 a.m. CST
Mate. ROTS was fucking awesome. I saw it twice yesterday and the theater was applauding, cheering, and crying like mad. What a great experience, and better yet, what a big FUCK YOU to the Haters. Did you and CptKirks2Pay see it with Michele Heaton???? And what did you think of the FA Final???
May 23, 2005, 6:24 a.m. CST
the early comedy bits with R2 were actually funny. i agree that Portman was rubbish (though I dont agree with the fact that because she hasnt got huge Cali fake breasts she's not attractive, even with skinhead she's fine)- As for acting- only McDiarmid (sp) and McGregor were acting, top marks to those two
May 23, 2005, 6:26 a.m. CST
...although I'm seeing it again at the cinema tonight.
May 23, 2005, 6:33 a.m. CST
... you're right, its fucking excellent isnt it? Cpt Kirks 2pay is on holiday at the moment, but im sure he'll have seen it too. AS FOR THE FA CUP, (and this will make bluemancbrit piss himself laughing, im sure) IM ABSOLUTELY GUTTED MAN UTD DIDNT WIN- WE WERE ROBBED!!!! AAAAGH!
May 23, 2005, 6:38 a.m. CST
As the whisky hits I'm even more psyched. That movie (3 hours ago) was friggen amazing. From my 34 year old brother to my 4 year old daughter... they are going to LOVE IT (hands over daughter's eys for napalmed Anakin). Bow down you fucking ingrates and thank the Force that Modesto, CA gave us George Lucas. (Padme still sucks but she is but a vessel to deliver episodes 4-6). AND Qui-gon Jinn defeats death? Oh the bitter irony for tragic Darth. This movie went so far as to create room for a 3B episode. Chant, clap and flick you bics...LUCAS will return to the stage.
May 23, 2005, 6:41 a.m. CST
((was a decent game for 0-0 and penalties are always great (as a neutral). I needed Utd to win really for my fantasy football team to win my minileague, (second place had loads of Arsenal defenders)I think I was pipped at the post.))------ as for my ROTS experience, the only people I saw dressed up were when we were sat in the pub afterwards, saw a couple of kids in Jedi robes walk past and a six year old Vader refusing to wear his mask and getting told off by his dad.
May 23, 2005, 6:43 a.m. CST
first, let me say, i'm one of the LOVERS, not the haters. (IMHO, the haters just hate because they have nothing else better to do.) ROTS blew my mind (and heart). okay then... speculation -- OB1 and Yoda go to the Jedi temple to stop the "return" code, as a way to keep the Jedi from coming back to their certain death, right? does this mean that there are a whole bunch of Jedi still out there, scattered about the galaxy? Ronin Jedi? hellooooo spin-off show! (didn't see Kit Fisto get killed... hmmm....)
May 23, 2005, 6:46 a.m. CST
The FA Cup game did not even start here until 11 pm, so it was a late night to say the least. I wanted the Red Devils to win, but for fuck sake, how many chances did they blow, especially von nistilrooy? And how about Paul Scholes; talk about some one who could really turn to the Dark Side!!! That guy has had shit luck for a while, and when his penalty kick got blocked, I got the same feeling as I did when Becks sailed his penalty kick in Euro 2004. Does Liverpool have a chance in hell against AC Milan? And back to SW, I don't know about you mate, but when Obi Wan rode up to the homestead, and you heard Luke Skywalker's theme from ANH, I got a lump in my throat and was fighting back the tears. I really felt like the saga was full circle at that point, and I felt like I did when I was a little kid, all over again. Fucking awesome!!I don't know of any other movie that has that power.
May 23, 2005, 6:51 a.m. CST
by The Founder
May 23, 2005, 7:33 a.m. CST
no, not ROTS but Blade Trinity, if the DVD itself could talk then it would apologise for being such a waste of space and throw itself out of the nearest window (if it can talk, it may as well be able to walk)--------------oh and one thing thats worrying me about ROTS, IF the clone troopers in the PT are the stormtroopers in the OT then how did they go from skilled jedi killing soldiers (PT)to unable to shoot straight, banging head on Death Star doors, pieces of crap (OT) in the space of about 18 yrs? Maybe this is what the rumoured TV series will feature.
May 23, 2005, 7:47 a.m. CST
To answer your question bluemancbrit, I read somewhere that Lucas said that the Empire gets so big that they need conscripts/non-clones to fulfill their needs. The clones were basically an instant, "quick fix" army for Palpatine. Remember that the clones age twice as fast, so many of the surviving clones would no longer be militarily suitable. Also, notice that the officer corps is not clones. And back to Blade:Trinity, I agree that it was disappointing. I loved Blade, and enjoy Blade II, bit Blade Trinity did not really do it for me. A lot of haters on this TB hated the PT, but they can not say that the PT did not end with a bang, unlike the Blade franchise.
May 23, 2005, 7:50 a.m. CST
Hey guys. Just seen this and the movie is 1000 times better than the first 2 although it is far from perfect. In fact despite the action and the 'revelations' there seems to have been no proper thought behind either of the prequel stories. It just all seems a little rushed and gimmicky. Here are a couple of examples: 1) When Palpatine was fighting Mace Windu and Windu was deflecting the lightning bolt back onto Palpatine, Palpatine grew older and disfigured. Why didnt the same happen to Luke in Jedi? 2) With all the gadjets R2 uses(the utiliy R2 used to catch something with, his jet heels etc) why werent these evident in the first trilogy? 3) At the end when they hid Luke and Leia from Vader, why on earth would you want to send Luke to Vaders step family especially as Anakin / Vader knows of it and has stepped foot into the Lars' home? 4) Amongst one of the biggest fuck ups was the death of Padme. I mean what was the sole purpose of Anakin choosing the Dark Side? To save Padme right? So what does Vader do once he hears that Padme has died? He moans like a lil bitch! No mention of him trying to resurrect her ... seems a bit pointless him turning to the Dark Side in the first place doesnt it? I'm there are a few more points worth mentioning but cant remember them right now. Anyway, really not trying to nit-pick or anything but I for one have been hugely dissapointed at the lack of a proper and solid storyline for a saga that truly deserves it. Such a waste.
May 23, 2005, 8:02 a.m. CST
The "Rise" of Vador when rebuild is different between the trailers and the Movie. In the Trailers Vador has both hands attached up by his shoulders. In the Movie they are next to his legs. Did Lucas had another ending when he doesn't scream??? Swissben
May 23, 2005, 8:03 a.m. CST
cheers Krullboy, fair point though it just highlights the general confusion surrounding the SW universe. Seen as a one off film (away from all the history/success/fandom of the OT and the two, rubbish PT films) I thought ROTS was very good. As for Blade Trinity- you know the film is going to struggle when even its title doesnt make sense, 'trinity'? do they have dictionaries in Hollywood?
May 23, 2005, 8:05 a.m. CST
Have seen it twice already and thought it was fantastic, yes there were flaws, the odd cringy line, some bad cgi especially on Cody but there was so much to love that it more than compensated for the bad. The sabre duels were all breathtaking, well choreographed and very well shot. Yoda v Siddious was a riot, almost thought it was gonna descend into bitch slapping and hair pulling, just great fun. And they say George has no sense of humour? What I liked the most was Ian McD, what an excellently oily and sinister performance, damn almost made me want to join the Sith too, great to see his three movie plan finally come to fruition, genius. Hayden gave a much better account of himself, although there were a few moments of Joey Tribiani smell the fart acting. "I hate you" was hilarious when it should have been gut wrenching. Some of the best scenes had least dialogue, spoke volumes about the impact of the material and perhaps a trim was needed on Menace and Clones too script wise, I guess it worked best when it could breathe. The real proof was in the pudding though, watched New Hope afterwards and was a seamless transition, I was sceptical that perhaps the prequels would detract from the originals, but I think they have actually helped to enrich and enhance the whole Star Wars experience, New Hope was better for having seen Sith, and considering it was already 10/10 that aint no bad thang. Empire tonight! Strange how the darkside movies turned out to be the best in the series!! God bless the sith!
May 23, 2005, 8:39 a.m. CST
It's OK, I guess. Better than TPM and Clones. Hopefully it gets better. I really get deflated by any scene where Jedi walk through hundreds of battle droids with no effort, though. Why would anyone even manufacture the things? Save the electronics, just put a bunch of mannequins in your landing bay for people to stroll through. I know there should be more actual jeopardy as the movie rolls along, though. And I imagine it will be more powerful when I see it in the theatre.
May 23, 2005, 8:51 a.m. CST
If I ask nicely, maybe? Please?
May 23, 2005, 9:14 a.m. CST
Some great moments, some god-awful moments. If only they'd cut out some of the utterly pointless CGI eg. Obi-Wan on a lizard, General Grevious (Count Dooku should have inhabited that role, with his death coming much later). Why did the aforementioned General run like the character from a computer game? They could have used that time to make some of the other scenes so much better. Why did Lucas feel it necessary to fill every inch of screen space with SOMETHING, ANYTHING!?! Why did we need to have Ob-Wan's ship covered in little droids - isn't a space battle fun enough? But ultimately, the problem is with the script, and the strange, comatose slowness that all the actors have been told to deliver their lines. Watch the OT and you will see that everyone is trying to get their lines out as fast as possible, and this is what drives the action along. Oh, well, there's my two cents. Best Bit - the death of the Jedi scenes, especially the expression on that bloke from the council's face when the troops turn against him in the snow. Worst bit - 'NOOOO' (spoilt the serious nature of the ending for me).
May 23, 2005, 9:16 a.m. CST
Fuck SW and fuc lotr 2. ive had it w/ ALL u PHaggz. u--r so knee-deep in geek-shit it's almost scary. Hackson is a hack, and u have been utterlly brain-washed by lucass. the fact that u cant c how useless this freakuel-trilogy is---Is testament 2 just how knee-deep in geek-shit ur. ive had it w/ u fucrz. sit and waist time over $$$ amounts all u want stools. peter hackson and luass BOTH suc balls. oh wow! geoerge actually made a movie that is not a total emarrassment 2 humanity. good 4 him. and just cuz some of u dix managed 2 find girl-friendz IN SPITE of being sw-fanz..i pity u. cuz u r just basically fucn' yer mom. face it lotr sux.. and sw REALLY sux. so many plot-holes its not even funny. Stick comix and EU boox up yer ass fuck-wadz. the fact that u have 2 look 2 that shit 4 answears is just proof-positive that luca$ FAILED and u r nothing but his simple-minded SLAVEs! eat my ass dix...and rot in hell...shit, i still have 6 beerz left.. bye
May 23, 2005, 9:27 a.m. CST
no not the ending of the movie...the checks Lucas sent out to all our 'trusted' Internet reviewers. I've really tried to stay positive about these movies, but this just took the cake. There is a huge laundry list of things that sucked, but here's my short list: every singe line of dialogue, Dooku and Greivous going out like bitches, Anakin killing kids, the whole sequence of Vader's 'birth' (NOOOOOOO!!!!!), light saber duels were way too short (and Clone Wars were better), Yoda not going back and trying to kill the Emperor again, C-3PO's mind wipe, Chewbacca meeting Yoda. I could go on all day. This movie had absolutely no flow, no poetry, no emotion. George doesn't care about these characters, so why should we? THANK GOD THE SERIES HAS ENDED!!! GO MAKE ART FILMS GEORGE AND BE HAPPY!!!
May 23, 2005, 9:31 a.m. CST
"Yoda could have gone ANYwhere." If that's the case, what's so wrong with him "throwing a bone to the fans," as you say? I agree that some of the cutesy little shout-outs annoy me because they make the Star Wars galaxy seem a lot smaller than it ought to be (Anakin building Threepio, for example), but an innocent contrivance doesn't seem like something to take up arms over. I await the inevitable post where you explain why it is.
May 23, 2005, 9:33 a.m. CST
...... shit, what a wanker- how on earth can you have the front to fucking tell people what we think/like, etc? Fine, you didnt like it. I fucking loved it (so did fucking loads of people if you read their comments- its certainly made a lot of
May 23, 2005, 9:40 a.m. CST
i think i's too s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d out too man. Is it just my crappy work mac and shitty broadband, or is this tb taking aaaaages to refresh? Can you start a new one Harry???? (ROTS TB3?)
May 23, 2005, 9:43 a.m. CST
And if he doesn't, remember, you can buy that Vader voice changer thingy and do it yourself, before you burn your bootleg copy to DVD-R. Surprise your friends!
May 23, 2005, 9:51 a.m. CST
...While he's on top. Believe me, Hollywood just CAN'T WAIT to jam him into some total POS martial arts/action buddy movie as the requisite heavy, then demote him to straight-to-video shit-flicks...just wait and see...
May 23, 2005, 9:52 a.m. CST
It's all about the really cool right smack up against the really silly and cliched. Vader is full of anger and despair. So, when he's crumbling inside the force is crushing everything around him. That was great, IMO. But then comes the scream and it kind of brings you out of the moment.
May 23, 2005, 9:53 a.m. CST
May 23, 2005, 9:58 a.m. CST
Count Dooku should have been the secondary villain instead of Grievious in ROTS. Chris Lee had about 2 minutes of screen time. He survived AOTC for that?
May 23, 2005, 9:58 a.m. CST
This is how they should have handled the "Nooooooooooooooooo" scene. Palpatine: "Lord Vader, you killed her in your rage." Vader's mechanical breathing stops. In silence he falls to his knees. Head down, hands in fist he pounds the floor. Everything around him is broken and thrown about in the manifestation of his rage. There could even be a mechanical type screech or roar as metal is twisted and broken. Everything crashes and thens silence. The breathing resumes. Palpatine: "Rise Lord Vader." Vader: "Yes master."
May 23, 2005, 9:59 a.m. CST
Imagine a LONE WOLF and CUB type show set in the Outer Rim of the Star Wars universe! A jedi who has to hide the fact that he's a Jedi, but still use his skills to get innocent people out of trouble. That would be awesome!
May 23, 2005, 10:06 a.m. CST
First let me say that I didn't like ROTS at all, and saying it was better than TPM and AOTC is like saying that Carrot Top is a better comedian than Gallagher and Jeff Foxworthy if you get my drift. After some thought, here's why the last 3 (or first 3 in proper order) sucked: 1-Too many planet, systems, and everything in else Remember in Empire, when we first go to the ice planet of Hoth, how much of an event that felt like? Then to the Dagoba system? In the first 3 movies every place you went had a personality, had something special about it. In the more recent movies it was all too much too fast. Let's go to this system, then to that system, no wait, let's make a pit stop over here. Granted the universe/galaxy is enormous, but we can get that on our own. Too often it felt like we were just getting Lucas and his team showing off their CGI with no real purpose beyond that. Of course we need to see Tatooine or Naboo, but the Wookie planet, or where Grevious goes to hide in ROTS, or the 9 billion places from the first two movies. Talk all you want about pacing, if Lucas had limited the locations the story would have improved. 2 - Big Names kill believability Sam Jackson is not a Jedi. Natalie Portman is not a royal from Naboo. It just doesn't work. Whenever they, or someone else with a big name like Jimmy Smits is on the screen, it compltely kills the movie for me. I give Ewen the only pass cause in the 3 movies he was the ONLY actor to stand out. I realize the original 3 had big names like Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher, but they weren't huge when it first started so we completely bought them. I think if we had relative no names in the roles we would have invested more in the story. Look at LOTR, not saying there were no names, but they weren't above the line name stars, they were known but just enough to spark some interest, not overpower every aspect of the movie. 3- Lucas can't write for shit Okay, I'm jumping on teh bandwagon, and clearly the "NOOOOOO" was a bad choice. But didn't he write all the movies? Or at least the early ones? (If I'm wrong let me knwo, which I'ms ure you will). But Han Solo had some pretty cool dialogue.. Obi Won had some pretty cool dialogue, so did Lea and even Luke, when he wasn't wining like crazy. What the hell happened? Forget CGI and action scenes, when you have people literally laughing at the converations in the movie you have a problem There, I'm done
May 23, 2005, 10:07 a.m. CST
by Darth Philbin
It is true. After 10 hours of grown men crying and holding each other and riding horseback together he just cracked. Not that being gay is a bad thing but I thought I would warn fellow talkbackers just in case they have a roommate that likes these movies. You never know when the One Ring that your buddy keeps going on and on about might turn out to be your Brown Ring. I went into his room over the weekend and insisted that he stop beating off to that Orlando poster that he bought from Wal-Mart and go see Revenge of the Sith. The results were amazing and now he is on the straight and narrow. I was a little scared when Obi-Wan told Anakin that he loved him, but unlike Lord of the Rings where the male characters resolve emotional issues by giving each other backrubs and eating pints of ice cream by the campfire, Star Wars III wraps up the emotion in that scene by SETTING A QUADRUPLE AMPUTEE ON FIRE!!! If THAT ain't a man's movie, I dunno what is. Later that night, I saw him throwing out his ass-less chaps and leather pants. He also took his special edition DVD of Troy to the disc trader and came back with Starship Troopers. I encourage any of you that have a gay roommate and sleep with one eye open to take them to see Revenge of the Sith...oh and if you are not sure if your roommate is gay, the best way to find out is to check to see if their dick tastes like shit.
May 23, 2005, 10:09 a.m. CST
Stop bitching over Vader's scream.Fuck.
May 23, 2005, 10:11 a.m. CST
When the Emperor got dumped down that shaft in RotJ, we didn't get that "Nooo..." shit, just a nice, furious, nonverbal shriek. Man, they came up with that cool-ass squawk for Obi-Wan's lizard, but no one thought to play with some groovy sound effects for the most wrenching scene in the trilogy...
May 23, 2005, 10:27 a.m. CST
The hell with Scarface and Goodfellas...cutting all your best buddy's arms and legs off and leaving him to burn is some flat out COLD SHIT...
May 23, 2005, 10:31 a.m. CST
and yes, i sniff knickers (which is spelled 'knickers')- doesn't everyone? I don't smoke either (but do drink too much at times, which is just as bad). Will you be wearing your 'mouth of sauron' hat/mask, while you dance for ian mckellen (who is also a pillow biter btw). Dont get me wrong, ive got nothing against gay people at all (ooer!), just didnt like you telling me that i dont like ROTS, when in fact i do like it.
May 23, 2005, 10:40 a.m. CST
The best Anakin / Padme scene was when they "look" at each other from across the city. There's no words, only music, and it works great on an emotional level. The Darth Vader transformation scene would have benefitted from this also--instead of an overblown "Nooo!" Vader should have heard what Palpatine said about Padme dying, looked at the floor in silence, then lifted his head and gazed straight forward in complete silence save for the breathing... Plus, the movie should have shown Luke and Leia being conceived, preferably with Padme presenting rearward as she bends over a spacetable.
May 23, 2005, 10:51 a.m. CST
... they're ok......so as we're now dragging all the 'funny' stereotypes up, that must mean you weigh a metric tonne, travel everywhere by humvee, are in fact called 'hank' (spelled c.u.n.t), invade every country possible and say the worg 'gee' a lot (can't spell that cos it aint actually a word fatso). What exactly did you win at? the wanking contest you had with your mum (who is actually your sister too), and your 'favourite uncle'? Or did you win by tring to convince me that I dont like ROTS? erm.... nope, I still like it loser.
May 23, 2005, 10:54 a.m. CST
by I Dunno
Too many star systems? WTF? And the inevitable LOTR comparison. Well, that film had Sallah, the gay X-Men guy, the chick from all the Aerosmith videos, Rudy, the guy from Carlito's Way, the remake of Psycho and about another dozen films where he plays a slimy prick and Christopher Lee, who holds the record for starring in more films than any other actor, even though his character's death wasn't importent enough to make the cut in that piece of crap. What was I talking about again? Oh yeah, you're a dumbass.
May 23, 2005, 10:57 a.m. CST
Good Points. Give me a fucking billion dollar empire and I'll give you a better Star Wars prequel trilogy. With Lucas' deep pockets and 20 years to think about it, its disgusting what he came up with.
May 23, 2005, 10:59 a.m. CST
you need to get that crackpipe blazing, you're running out of crap to spout. (ps- is your mum really sheila the crack whore from 'bumfights' vol 1?)
May 23, 2005, 11:01 a.m. CST
by Catbarf the 5th
Aw, what's wrong with the Obi-Wan giant lizard? (Great, now I've just set in motion 37 talkbacks about Obi-Wan's "giant lizard"... bring it on...) anyway... it didn't seem out of place at all. Were the Tauntauns stupid too? The Banthas? There have always been weird steeds in these movies, why is this one any different? The CGI was great, the sound design for its cries was great. It owes much to the Ray Harryhausen tradition. Where's the love?
May 23, 2005, 11:05 a.m. CST
I sorta dug that.
May 23, 2005, 11:06 a.m. CST
When Obi-Wan told Anakin he had failed him, it was so devastating. I loved it, and I loved the film. I went Friday night and to the first showing Sunday, and both times were wonderful. Each time, the crowd clapped at the end, highly satisfied with what they had just seen. I think also overwhelmed. I certainly was. I think the last shot of the Skywalker family looking at the horizon was the most emotional for me. Maybe because of what it meant: both an end and beginning. It bridged the "Star Wars" originals and prequels beautifully and was simply lovely in its simplicity. I loved that shot.
May 23, 2005, 11:08 a.m. CST
I think the point of Obi Wan's lizard mount was to draw a comparison between the good and dark side of the force and between Grievous and the Jedi. Grievous is more mechanical than anything; he controls his menchanical escape vehicle. In a way it is more like him. Obi Wan, as a Jedi is obviously in tune with the force, which is a componant of all living things. His riding of the lizard is not one of simple control but one based on a relationship with all living things. When he dismounts, he rubs the neck of the creature hinting at a kind of respect or acknowlegment of it as a creature. It is this sort of attention to detail that actually makes me like Star Wars and also makes me upset when they drop the ball in other key scenes. Now whether the lizard steed works cinematically; well that is up for debate. It didn't bother me.
May 23, 2005, 11:13 a.m. CST
After reading many of the posts, it seems the major gripe (besides corny dialogue as usual)with SITH was Anakin's quick jump to the Dark Side. I guess I'm a minority here because I didn't have a problem with it. I thought he turned on Windu for valid reasons and was appropraitely remorseful afterwards (which some fans thought was dumb). It would have been unrealistic to me if he immediately morphed into Lou Ferrigno the minute he chopped Mace's hand off. Also, the Emperor tells him the Jedi are going to kill him after what he's done, so what choice does he have...tell Yoda he's sorry? I felt it was similar to the mild mannered guy who goes postal after thirty years of being a stellar employee. Anakin just had a really shitty day at the office and lost it.
May 23, 2005, 11:16 a.m. CST
Pretty sure I read that somewhere.
May 23, 2005, 11:20 a.m. CST
The only thing cooler than the way Boga looked and ran is the way Boga sounded; it was nice to have a "cool animal noise" to parallel the Tauntauns. There was a weak CGI moment for me when Obi Wan rides up to the clone commander after whacking grievous and the clone returns his saber, but no big deal there. Hey, did anyone else notice that when Grievous ignites his four sabers that his arms make a simultaneous pivot clockwise, and that the arms and sabers formed a perfect swastika?
May 23, 2005, 11:21 a.m. CST
I don't buy the turn to the dark side. He yells to Windu (before he is thrown out the windo)that the Emperor must stand trial. At that moment, he recognizes that the emperor is in the wrong, and to be honest Anakin's position is not really that wrong--in fact it is the backbone of most democracies--the right to a fair trial. Windu was in the wrong. He was playing judge and executioner. The Emperor tosses Windu and then turns to Anakin who now gets on his knees and swears allegience to the dark side? Why did this happen? Anakin goes from turning the emperor in, to believing that there should be on trial to swearing his allegience? I missed something--perhaps because I have only seen it once.
May 23, 2005, 11:24 a.m. CST
We use the letter u in words, because we can, probably because we invented the languuuuuuuuage lardarse. You almost wiped out all the indigenous population of America, which is why you have to use someone else's language. Having a queen is a bit better than having an inbred hillbilly president WHO STILL WEARS FUCKING VILLAGE PEOPLE COWBOY HATS YOU TWAT (and we all still love ROTS to bits- well, at least i do, which is all that matters hank). do you still use the term 'Booo Yaaa!' over there? fuck.
May 23, 2005, 11:25 a.m. CST
by Atticus Finch
if you've been paying attention to the story since Episode I.
"It is Windu who suggests that the Chancellor should be removed and the Council must take over for the transition period. The wise Yoda doesn
May 23, 2005, 11:26 a.m. CST
Seriously, because the Revenge of the Shit... sorry, Sith... film I saw was horribly structured, horribly written, horribly directed and, for the most part, horribly acted. In fact, it might've been the worst film I ever seen. So, can someone please tell me what theatre is playing the movie all you guys are praising? I'd really like to see it.
May 23, 2005, 11:31 a.m. CST
Really enjoyed ROTS overall. Probably nearly as good as ROTJ. However...thought the Anakin/Vader transformation at the end was rushed. Would have liked to have seen the how and why of the iconic Darth Vader suit. Must concur with most of the posters that the Vader "Nooooo!" was retarded. Also thought that Palpatine's post-Windu speech to Anakin was wildly over-acted! All in all though....an 8.5 out of 10. Well done George.
May 23, 2005, 11:31 a.m. CST
No, we saw a different film. You got the shitty one. The one you saw was so horrible; I wouldn't even bother posting on this site about it. Now that you have seen that one, you will never be allowed to see the good one. It is a personal conspiracy against you. We would like to discuss the real film now. The one you will never see. It would be best if you shut your computer off now.
May 23, 2005, 11:32 a.m. CST
by Lost Skeleton
and kind of sad. Come on, no one can really hate all the duels in this...If you do, you are just a hater for hater's sake...Lucus nailed this thing!
May 23, 2005, 11:40 a.m. CST
It's like saying the dianoga ruined Episode IV because it was superfluous. Who the fuck cares? It was cool.
May 23, 2005, 11:41 a.m. CST
because if they truly were then lucas would have tried to insert some implied suspense, such as not tipping us off to palpy being sidious in E1, luke and leia being brother and sister and vader being anakin. if he could write worth a damn he could have gotten pretty creatie with all of those elements and treated us to a pretty interesting tail instead of the paint by numbers mind numbing horse crapped he's been peddling as star wars the past three years.
May 23, 2005, 11:46 a.m. CST
I think it will be cool to watch the movies in numerical order, however, when i have kids of my own, I will show them the OT first and then the PT. I think it has much more of an emotional impact this way.
May 23, 2005, 11:48 a.m. CST
To answer Ingeld's question: Anakin only said he wanted the Emperor to stand trial because he was trying to buy some time. He knew Palp was his only chance of saving his wife (I thought he even yelled to Mace that he needed him). Also, he knows how the Jedi deal with someone that is too dangerous and that he wouldn't be forgiven for helping axe Mr.Windu. The emperor even stated this and that's why he joins him and starts mowing down kiddies (something that's not new to him). And for the guy who thinks the movie is crap because of acting, directing, etc.; that's like saying "Sinbad" movies suck for the same reasons...they're escapism, nothing more.
May 23, 2005, 11:49 a.m. CST
The novelization of ROTS explains the concept of "becoming one" with the force better than the movie. At the end of the film, Yoda tells Obi Wan that Qui Gon has returned from the netherworld to teach them about "becoming one" and achieving a sort of immortality. In the book, Yoda actually does have a sit-down with a phantasm version of Qui Gon. So that's why Yoda and Obi Wan dissolved when they die in ANH and ROTJ--they learned to "become one." Qui Gon didn't dissolve in TPM because, perhaps, he hadn't quite gotten it until after he died. Then he came back. Darth Vader doesn't dissolve because not only did he fail to learn to "become one," which is the promise of immortality that Sidious promised him, but he's also a dickweed.
May 23, 2005, 12:10 p.m. CST
by George Newman
In ROTS, Vader believed Palpatine to be right, so he defended him from Mace. In ROTJ, Vader was no longer so sure in his trust of the emperor. It was a fascinating 1,000,000th viewing. PS- ROTJ definitely has the best space battles of all the films. So thrilling.
May 23, 2005, 12:27 p.m. CST
May 23, 2005, 12:33 p.m. CST
by Atta Boy Luther!
My favorite line was when Obi Wan turns to Senator Organa and says, "There's another old saying Senator...Don't piss down my back and tell me it's rainin'!"
May 23, 2005, 12:36 p.m. CST
by George Newman
Anakin choking Obi Wan, holding Obi's wrist, and pressing the saber towards Obi wan's face:(this can be viewed in the Hero Falls video and the first teaser) First shot: anakin choking Obi; CUT to Obi holding ANAKIN's saber; CUT to anakin, and in shot is Obi's hand holding OBI's saber; CUT to a pulled back shot revealing both guys and Obi holding ANAKIN's saber again.?! You could call this nitpicking but good grief, the lightsabers are featured largely in these shots. It doesn't make sense how they would even swap sabers between different takes! This is no simple make-up issue either. Extremely goofy.
May 23, 2005, 1 p.m. CST
Having first read EIII the book, I was expecting to see a bunch of stuff that I guess was left on the editing floor, like... 1) beheading of Kit Fisto 2) Qui Gon talking to Yoda in a vision at the end 3) Yoda landing on Dagobah to begin his exile 4) Obi Wan being orally serviced by Padme
May 23, 2005, 1:02 p.m. CST
Only three appearances by Jar Jar (and no lines thank the gods!). And the Millennium Falcon was in it!!!!
May 23, 2005, 1:06 p.m. CST
more Lethal Weapon
May 23, 2005, 1:51 p.m. CST
I just got out of my annual performace appraisal, and all we talked about was ROTS (What that says about my work, we'll leave for another day). Anyhoo, we both brought up the fateful venom-spew that was "I HATE you" that Anakin flung toward Obi Wan. We both agreed that its the most poignant part of ANY of the six SW films. The delivery of that STILL gives me goosebumps, and a sense of dread 5 days and nights later.
May 23, 2005, 1:52 p.m. CST
...see this link...http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=ToTo247 .....read his entry on the 10th...his last entry was on the 12th...the day he was murdered. The murderer was caught because of this entry.
May 23, 2005, 1:58 p.m. CST
by Quite Gone Gin
Sorry, just wanted to use my first official post to the site to point out how it is not only sad but amusing when people post this at the beginning of a talkback. LOL!! Anyway, back to ROTS goodness...
May 23, 2005, 2 p.m. CST
by Quite Gone Gin
Why in the hell would Lucas have the Yoda and Obi Wan "discuss" Qui's return at the end, and not actually show him?! Could Liam Neeson not fit it in his schedule or something?
May 23, 2005, 2:02 p.m. CST
And leave it to Lucas to make coughing a character trait.
May 23, 2005, 2:09 p.m. CST
My husband and I saw the first Star Wars movie in middle school and it was so "amazing". He saw it over and over. Those first three were the best. These last three have been bad. After hearing all the hoopla of how this last one was better than the last two, I was very disappointed. I was bored thru part of it. The actors are still bad, I don't feel for them like I felt for Luke and Leah. The lazers were so bright white that it hurt my eyes, couldn't see the fighting good. Not amazing at all.
May 23, 2005, 2:10 p.m. CST
by Liberty Valance
Which chronicles how Burglekutt became such a fucking asshole.
May 23, 2005, 2:16 p.m. CST
So I wrote a song about it. Enjoy! http://www.hotwafflesmusic.com/georgelucasrapedourchildhood.mp3
May 23, 2005, 2:22 p.m. CST
I agree that it would have been cool to see Liam Neeson as Qui Gon at the end, as a phantasm, or at least hear his voice. Maybe he could have apologized to Yoda: "I'm sorry, master, I thought he was the chosen one, but chosen to bring balance to the force, not f*ck sh*t up." Darth's "Nooo" sucked. It did, but it's okay, I'll get over it. Anakin's "I hate you" to Obi Wan was not poignant, but rather weak. If my former best friend / mentor had just lopped off my legs and left me to DIE an almost CERTAIN DEATH by BURNING, I could think of a few more choice words to say. The "I hate you" was already implied--they just got done fighting to the death, fer chrissakes. I agree with the comment a couple entries about about Maul, Dooku and Grievous all being introduced simply to have bad guys in each movie, but each is dispatched far too easily, when the true cool villain, Palpatine, lurks in the shadows and is not revealed until midway EIII, even though we know all along who it is and what will come of him. In other words, Maul, Dookie and Grievous had to be introduced or the good guys wouldn't have had anyone to fight until Palpatine reveals himself in EIII. But all of them are cool characters. One thing I missed in EIII is that no alien characters utter the word, "poodoo." I suspect that General Grievous is really Sebulba in armor.
May 23, 2005, 2:31 p.m. CST
can we say, TOTALLY UNNECESSARY, not to mention contradictory to the OT? The ability to see these force apparitions apparently has to be taught. Well, ahem, Luke was never taught how to see Obi-Wan.
May 23, 2005, 2:46 p.m. CST
by Darth Pookie
This film was a fantastic addition to the Star Wars experience, regardless of what the small group of five naysayers on the planet may think. I totally agree with Kevin Smith: "This is the "Star Wars" prequel the haters have been bitching for since "Menace" came out, and if they don't cop to that when they finally see it, they're lying."
P.S.- Up the haters' asses with a red hot lightsaber, lol jk
May 23, 2005, 3 p.m. CST
Since when does this guy's opinion matter? He's a worse director than Lucas!! Why are there so many haters? Do you think we want to hate these films? We hate them because they SUCK!
May 23, 2005, 3:02 p.m. CST
deal with it star wars fucking rocks the house no matter how many mistakes are made and no matter how different you think it should be. you didnt fucking invent this saga. you have no say. just enjoy obi wan kicking anakins ass! word!
May 23, 2005, 3:04 p.m. CST
Well, i loved it. Even though some dialogue came across as a bit cringe worthy im hoping that it will seem better after repeat viewings. Having waited my whole life to see this i came away sad that i may never see a new star wars. I think that although I LOVED some parts of the film. Im left... just wishing that the prequels had been better. That the kiddified nonscence had been cut out the 1st two and the story had been more like the almost mythic story of the 1st three. Oh well, having said that, the 1st 20 min were amazing. The banter between ob1 and anakin just made it feel like star wars again. And i thought the end really tied this to episide IV in a way that made scenes like ob1 dying make more sense. Even though you knew what was coming you still wanted anakin to do the right thing. And when you see the mask come down.....you feel how he finally realises how trapped he has become.
May 23, 2005, 3:11 p.m. CST
by Darth Pookie
Tell me you are joking, please. As much as i LOVE SW, Lucas is one of the worst directors of our time. And yes, you haters do so love to hate on this film, hence the reason you hardcore haters have attempted to hate this movie from it's initial conception. Such ignorant hatred.... a jedi craves not these things...
May 23, 2005, 3:13 p.m. CST
by Darth Pookie
Hate something worth all the hatred... like 'Monster-In-Law' or 'Bewitched' or something... (In my best Palpatine impersonation:) Leave us...
May 23, 2005, 3:16 p.m. CST
his opinion means jack squat
May 23, 2005, 3:17 p.m. CST
by Meg 3D!!!
The movie wasn't great but it delivered more Star Wars moments than the last 2 combined. Little things like when Anakin first notices Obi Wan standing on the ramp before their duel. That gave me chills. When Padme named the babies--same thing. The scene leading up to mace Windu's attempted arrest of Palpatine. Lots of good stuff here. Anyone who believes these prequels are full of more immature idiocy abnd slapstick and silliness than the original trilogy are dumb or blind to what they've scene. All six films have slapstick, childish moments, vague story-telling, and moments of lousy acting. Mark Hamil never gave as good a performance as Hayden did in SHATTERED GLASS. He's a good actor but Lucas doesn't care. It's spectacle to him, always has been. I'm not being an apologist nor dismissing criticisms or "haters." I just think you can miss the bigger picture when trying to view these new movies as the 8 year old you once were and never will be again. It's just a big fucking silly story. Certain episodes are better than others but so be it. 1 &2 could and should have been one movie. But it's not like they damaged anything much, if at all. As for Anakin turning to Darth I think you can buy his pre-Darth character for one simple fact: the Vader we knew is post-lava burning maiming shit. Why can he not go from pissy, selfish little punk with many influences to badass Darth vader from 4-6?? Wouldn't the maiming of his body and the pain and anger of seeing his best friend do it to him twist his shit all up?? make him the monster he was?? It is concievable that that is what the character is. Black suited Vader is NOT the Anakin we saw in 2 and most of 3. He is a different character who changed. Granted, perhaps we should have seen some of that much like we have to infer the stuff about Leia's mother and whatnot. That's bad storytelling. The audience shouldn't have to draw those sorts of conclusions. However, if you're a SW fan and know the material it can be done.
May 23, 2005, 3:32 p.m. CST
LANYARD: A cord that wraps around your wrist and attaches to a knife/pistol/LIGHT SABER. I'll have to count how many times light sabers were dropped and then picked up again (or not). WEAPONS RETENTION is a fundamental skill that even Master Yoda has failed to learn.
May 23, 2005, 3:32 p.m. CST
by Darth Pookie
but I'm sure that Kevin Smith would have the same thing to say concerning your opinion, that is if you were important enough in society to actually have an opinion that mattered... but we all digress, enough about Smith, he ain't the topic we should be on anyhoo.
May 23, 2005, 3:35 p.m. CST
by Darth Pookie
I don't get how in the hell Lucas could ravage the other two so badly and yet make this one so excellent... I just don't see how...
May 23, 2005, 3:37 p.m. CST
Great movie, but I can't believe she named the boy Luke. I mean, come on, "Luke Skywalker"?!? The kid is going to get so teased.
May 23, 2005, 3:41 p.m. CST
by Darth Pookie
Yeah, the taunting will be so bad it drives him to have this strange sexual desire to mount someone who oddly resembles a relative... mmm, incest......
May 23, 2005, 3:49 p.m. CST
I work in a church with a day school operating in it and all I heard this morning was hundreds of little voices chattering about Anakin and Obi Won.
May 23, 2005, 3:52 p.m. CST
Big time. The first two films were absolute crap - worse than stuff like Van Helsing even, where at least the characters act like they're not all robots. Episode III was far, far better, and by itself, a GOOD movie, I think. Definitely better than most popcorn films these days, where the Prequels were actually even worse than the average popcorn films these days. But Episode III is not close to the Original Trilogy, and when taken in context fo the Star Wars saga as a whole, it becomes mighty frustrating. Lucas did not mesh his two trilogies very well at all, for dozens of reasons. Just a few - Obi Wan doesn't remember the droids? Yeah, right. The Leia's Mother debacle? Come on - the fanboy "excuses" are weak and just trying to patch up bad storytelling. How about Chebacca? He's obviously derisive of Obi Wan in Episode IV("You said it, Chewy - Where did you dig up that old fossil?"), which doesn't match AT ALL from what we see in Episode III - Chewbacca interacts with the Jedi and seems reverential of Yoda. Twenty years later, after the purging of the Jedi, Chewie runs into one of the last two Jedi IN EXISTENCE, and not only does he not seem to care in the slightest at this revelation, but he's even DISMISSIVE of the Jedi's help. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't fit. Chewie would be wowed at the discovery of a living Jedi and respectful of his power and advice, as we see in Episode III, but he's not. It doesn't fit at all - Once again, George would rather throw out a senseless fanboy bone to show Chebacca in Episode III than actually sit down and think his story through to make it all make sense. And what about "Obi Wan once thought as you do?" - the whole line of Obi Wan Kenobi thinking he could turn Anakin back, that there was still good in him, etc. It's not in these new movies at all. Obi Wan never tries to reach Anakin or turn him back. Yoda says they have to kill him and he doesn't even protest, he only says he doesn't want to be the one who does it? The Original Trilogy clearly implies that Obi Wan tried to reach him and couldn't. Then, it makes it more powerful when Luke, FAMILY, is the only thing that can. He completely dropped that line in this, at the detriment to the story. And what about the whole line of Imperial Racism? Originally, they were supposed to be like the Nazis - racists. All the Empire is full of white, male, human beings. No other species. They even have lines like "Where are you taking this... thing?" and other elements of racist sentiment from the Empire. It was a clear and conscious choice - we even know from Lucas that the Wookie's had been enslaved by the Empire as inferior, etc. NOT A SINGLE INDICATION OF THIS IS EVEN HINTED AT IN THE PREQUELS - it's a major component of what the Empire "is" in the Original Trilogy, but not even a hint in the new one. "For over a thousand generations the Jedi were the Guardians of Peace and Justice in the Old Republic". Now "A Thousand Generations has turned into "A Thousand years" - he can't even get stuff like that right! There are many more examples, and it's so maddening because it's so damn lazy. He had the Original Trilogies he could write the new ones too - it's EASY.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------You could go on for pages and pages about what "could have been, so just the broad strokes. He should have not wasted two whole films and half the third one(wasted Grevious subplot) on all the meaningless crap. These entire three films should've been about two things - Anakin's fall and the Emperor's rise. The Emperor's rise could be complex and good without having to use up so much in wasted screentime with lackluster scenes. A clone army? Damn, it takes an ENTIRE FILM to figure that out? What wasted real estate? Episode I should have started with an older, but amazingly force-senstive Anakin. Obi Wan should have started to train him(there is no "Qui Gonn" - the Original Trilogy says explicitly that Yoda trained Obi Wan and Obi Wan trained Anakin - Qui Gonn was an unncecessary addition, and thus, wasted screen real estate for the real story. You could have THREE MOVIES to build up a relationship between Obi Wan and Anakin that really WAS "like brothers". Instead, we get virtually no Anakin/Obi Wan interaction in Episode I because Anakin's a kid being trained by somebody else. They are together and the very beginning and very end of Episode II, and the very beginning of Episode III, and THAT IT before "The Duel". Their relationship is so tenuous and unconvincing that Lucas has to resort to having Obi Wan SAY how much "like brothers" they are so we'll buy it. They even have a scene, their last "before the Duel" where Obi Wan clumsily sums up how he feels about Anakin WITH WORDS. Show, don't tell, George. Bad storytelling. If he had truly built up a strong relationship with them over the course of three films the final Duel could have been DEVASTATING, instead of merely relying on our knowledge of the Original Trilogy to give it any real sense of power. The same for Anakin and Padme. Their relationship was so weak that it had almost no power. Again, build that up over the course of three films and make it work like it did in another popular film, such as Titanic(which had its flaws in the love story, but it obviously worked as a love story in one film far better than this trilogy did in three films!). If that relationship had seemed "real", if Lucas could care enough about the human beings in the story enough to work on that instead of only worrying about his precious CG, then that combined with a real relationship developed over three films with Obi Wan could have been shatteringly powerful at the end. The Anakin story was a 70-mile per hour fastball down the middle of the plate waist high to Mark McGwire - it should have been out of the park - not a dry eye in the house, no matter how big a Star Wars fan you were. Instead, at best, Lucas whiffed completely on the first two movies and maybe grounded out to short-stop on this one. Pathetic.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Anakin should have turned to the Dark Side at the end of Episode II, and Episode III should have been all about him "Hunting down and destroying" the Jedi Knights, along with Obi Wan trying and failing to reach "the Good in him". This would set up Luke actually achieving that later to be FAR more powerful than it already is. And how cool would it have been to see the Emperor actually training Darth Vader in the ways of the Dark Side, as Yoda trains Luke on Dagobah? Some moments of that? He makes him do bad things from the start, such as Force choke real, living things for training - "what's wrong? it's only a Wookie"? These scenes could be unbelievably cool, make Vader seem like a real Apprentice to Sidious, and set up the Wookie enslavement and the Imperial racist/Nazi stuff up that is in the Original Trilogy quite nicely. And what's up with Obi Wan letting Anakin burn and suffer before him at the end? That's out of character for two reasons - one, he wouldn't let his friend, or anybody for that matter, suffer needlessly like that, and two, he would need to make sure Vader was actually dead. Now he's just given the Galaxy twenty years of a pissed off, bionic, Sith maniac. Nice going, Obi Wan. Lazy storytelling, George. That should have been very chaotic - he slices him, Anakin starts to burn, the whole place is coming down around them and the Imperial troops are arriving on the planet - Obi Wan has to flee and save Padme, just getting away by the skin of his teeth. It makes more story sense and would also be another exciting scene. I could go on and on and on about how big of a missed opportunity this film was, and in how many ways it doesn't fit with the Original Trilogy very well, which makes it even more frustrating - the film, on its own, is GOOD, though heavily flawed. But it becomes a frustratingly collasal missed opportunity whenever you put it in context of the Star Wars saga as a whole.
May 23, 2005, 4:03 p.m. CST
They're just discussing their next move. Chewie knows who obi-wan is, the discussion probably goes. My old friend we need your help once more and Chewie obliges him. Why would chewie say, I know him?! Who cares. Chewie got Han another job, that's the important thing. Chewie knows that risk of his line of work. He's up for the challenge. I think we saw two different movies, because I think ROTS & ANH connect very well. So much so, that after I got home from seeing ROTS. I wanted to see ANH. Obi-Wan lies to Luke, to encourage him. How could he tell Luke the truth? He wants Luke to feel like he was loved by his Father.
May 23, 2005, 4:05 p.m. CST
by Darth Pookie
Very cohesive and well thought out, one of the better I've read on these talkbacks.
May 23, 2005, 4:07 p.m. CST
The more you discuss seriously the "issues" raised in this film the more George Lucas Inc. will think he's done something even remotely admirable here and the more films he will write and direct. Please, I beg you: stop the madness. The film is absoute garbage, and quite obviously so. Star Wars ended with Return of the Jedi, pure and simple.
May 23, 2005, 4:08 p.m. CST
After someone is trying to murder you and they burn alive and they're barely living. You don't think, hmm i'll help him, bring aboard my ship. Hmm, maybe he'll try and kill me again. Yeah smart, come on dude. Anakin chose his path. No one could help him.
May 23, 2005, 4:10 p.m. CST
Well you didn't it and you didn't really like the film, so deal with it. Thank God I liked it and I enjoy being a SW fan.
May 23, 2005, 4:14 p.m. CST
Thankfully at the right moments to, Palpatine was disturbing when he yells NO! NO! NO! NO! at mace, wtf was that? I love stuff like that. It just had a lot a fucked up moments like that, even the bad lines are fun to say. Star Wars is a lot a fun. It's fun to exam it.
May 23, 2005, 4:16 p.m. CST
In regards to what one post said about the villians being useless in the prequals, I have to disagree. One of the main things I have always loved about Star Wars are the "sub" villians in each film. In A New Hope we really didn't need a subvillian because Vader had just been introduced, however, Empire gave us Boba Fett and Jedi gave us Jabba. Awesome villians. Phantom gave us Maul and Sith gave us Grevious. The sub villians really didn't do it for me in Clones though. I don't think Jango Fett was needed, nor was the whole backstory on Bobba. Bobba's mystery is (was) what was cool about him. Dooku was not that great in my opinion either. While the argument could be made that none of these sub villians are neccesary, they do help move the story along and provide for great visuals.
May 23, 2005, 4:16 p.m. CST
John Williams' score kicked serious tushie. And Aunt Beru was hot.
May 23, 2005, 4:20 p.m. CST
After seeing ROTS and enjoying it, I've been tempted to go back and watch TPM to see if they are any seeds George planted that reached fruition in ROTS. I don't hate TPM but I'm still not crazy about watching it (mostly a time issue) so I'm hoping some fanboys hear might help me out. What would you say are the signs in TPM that hint at Anakin's turn to the dark side? The only one I remember is Sentator Palpatine commenting how he's going to keep a close eye on Anakin or something of the sort.
May 23, 2005, 4:23 p.m. CST
... is the first one on here that talked about the films flaws in ways that made me think and even agree with in places. The haters are bile-dribbling idiots but this post has excellent points. Reading through the post I could imagine a "remaking" in 20 or 30 years and part of me is hoping that happens.
May 23, 2005, 4:23 p.m. CST
i LOVED the opening music after the crawl. those slow, booming, martial drums heralding what we all know, will soon be doom. than the cueing of the heroic theme in a slower metre; it reminded my of a Kurosawa film almost (but, with, you know, spaceships). i was getting choked up almost right away. by the end i was absolutely beside myself with emotion. i felt like, "geez, something must be wrong with me" until my brother saw it and had the same reaction. basically, all of my friends who have seen it have been stunned. TPM and AOTC were major disappointments, as most people agree, but ROTS was a goddamn masterpiece. haters can hate all they want, but how much you want to bet that most of them have already seen it at least 2 or 3 times, bought all the new action figures, and have the DVD on order? seriously.
May 23, 2005, 4:26 p.m. CST
This film was superb. And what's more, the much criticised rapid turn has, in my opinion been missinterpreted. Anakin does not actually turn to the Dark side at this juncture, you can see the regret in his eyes, the confusion, as he kneels before Sidious. Christensen can barely bring himself to look at his new master. He realises that, in light of what he has done, he must kneel. But, and this is critical, he has not yet accepted the Dark Side as his Creed. This occurs ONLY in the final confrontation scene between him, Padme and Obi Wan. In this scene, Anakin (as portrayed by Christensen) truley seems to BELIEVE in the non-sense that he is spouting. He has begun to reject the Jedi code (he rejected the jedi themselves long before), and embrace his new principles. Rather than idly speculating, Anakin now lays down his imperialistic philosophy in declarative appeals to Padme. In short, there is something slightly "off" about Anakin in this scene, he is unhinged, his eyes are all violence and fury, but also vacant (and I mean that as a compliment to his acting skills). It is here that Anakin becomes Darth Vader. Finally losing his regret and with it his humanity. Interestingly, when he kills the kids and the seperatists he wears his hood. Not a necessary thing to do given that they all recognise him anyway. I truly believe he is wearing his hood because during these scenes his is truley ashamed of his actions. He is hiding behind a physical barrier of sorts. The last vestiges of his former self. Then, finally, staring into the fires of hell with a tear in his eye, he accepts that all is lost. It is here, in this small and subtle scene that Darth Vader is finally born. And it is in the next scene that he is finally revealed. Have I read too much into this? I dunno. I've seen the film twice now and I truly believe that the finale is both written and acted to portray a slightly more gradual descent. Kneeling before Sidious, Anakin is all sorrow and regret. Standing before Padme and Obi Wan, he is Darth Vader. I say: Homerun Lucas! This film was great. A lot more challenging than really ANY of the other movies. However it certainly was not improved by the ridiculous NOOOOOO scream, and Padme's lack of will as cause of death. I am never the less convinced that the complex tragedy presented in this exciting and astonishingly beautiful film renders it a modern classic. Go back and watch it again, and keep doing it until you haters have lost the will to hate it anymore. Then, and only then will you realise what a really, really, good film Georgy actually made (whether he meant to or not).
May 23, 2005, 4:37 p.m. CST
by the way, Dagen makes some very good points. Plotholes the size of Lake Michigan. Its a shame that we even have to have these discussions.
May 23, 2005, 4:44 p.m. CST
by Darth Pookie
Tarantino can barely make a film without being given some sort of major award which instantly goes to show us that awards are pretty meaningless, hell, a former animator with my company has two emmy's, and trust me, no one cares. 90% of all awards mean exactly dick. And no the acting wasn't "bad", to say that is an ignorant statement which would mean EVERY actor in the film was terrible. The film had both convincing and nonconvincing actors performing in it... news flash- every film does. Every film. "Other than for sound, special effects, and the Razzie." well, first off, I don't know what the hell a "Razzie" is, that's not actually a term thrown around in our industry that I'm aware of, lol, but the sound and "Special effects" were a MAJOR player in the creation of the film. If it weren't for them there would be no episode 3, so how can you just blow them off as if they were so insignificant. John Dykstra would probably think you a fool. And last but not least, name 3 or 4 dozen things that sucked about it and I'll counter you with 30 or 40 dozen things that I loved about it. Man, the hate just goes on and on... I really encourage some of the people posting to obtain some sort of education concerning the filmmaking and storytelling process befor they give us quality, well thought-through observations such as "It was so lame!", "It was fuckin' dumb!!", and the rising classic, "It sucked!". I hate to break it to you haters, but no movie has been or will ever be perfectly crafted. As much as I LOVED this film, it does have it's flaws... ALL FILMS DO!! Stop nitpicking it to death for christ sakes.
May 23, 2005, 4:46 p.m. CST
by Darth Pookie
Wasn't it Samuel Taylor Coleridge who described invoking "willing suspension of disbelief"? Yeesh! Get a grip!!
May 23, 2005, 4:48 p.m. CST
Love the film but Anakins turn just happened too quickly. I guess he had to turn somtime. Saw it twice already and I still love it. Oh and I am one of the few who liked TPM. Some dialog made me cringe but seeing Jedi kick but in the opening scene for the first time in a movie was just too cool.
May 23, 2005, 4:56 p.m. CST
To the first two, I appreciate your comments, and want to stress that I DID like Revenge of the Sith and have seen it three times - each time getting a bit better. But that's when looking at it as its own, individual movie - self-contained. In that respect, it still has some large flaws, but is still a very good summer action spectacle film, in my opinion - far richer and more interesting than what you usually get from these films. Though I do think the first two prequels were far worse than the average summer action films for many reasons, but that's not what this talkback is about. However, when looked at in context of the Star Wars Saga, there is much to be very concerned about - many things just don't add up very well, or require internet fanboy justifications to try and patch them together and "make it work". Worse, when you logically think about what this story was and could have been if done by a better writer/director, it is almost maddeningly frustrating. This movie should have been one of the great films of all time, Shakespearean in scope and power - that's how "good" the bones of the Anakin Skywalker story is. Lucas completely dropped the ball on what it could have been. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Orionsangles - In terms of Chewbacca - think about him on the Death Star, putting his hands on his hips and saying something negative about Obi Wan, who was trying to help them. Han responded "Boy, you said it, Chewie. Where did you dig up that Old Fossil?" This just doesn't seem like the Chewie that we saw in Episode III, who was obviously aware of the Jedi and their power, and was clearly reverential. They're in a bind in Episode IV and he's completely dismissing Kenobi all of a sudden? It doesn't make any sense - he'd be more likely to be saying "Han, listen to this guy - these Jedis are badass and he's one of the only surviving ones in the Galaxy!" Why didn't he pipe up when Han is making fun of Luke and the Force while Chewie's over there playing chess? No "Wait a second, Han, I've seen what these Jedi can do - it's no joke". It just doesn't make sense that Chewie would be present for the Jedi purge and then be so flippant and dismissive when encountering one of the last surviving Jedi tweny years later. Why do you defend something that so obviously fits like a square peg in a round hole? There are many other examples of this - Lucas obviously not bothering to just think his story through. In this case, the bone thrown to the fanboys was more important that narrative cohesion............................ As for trying to turn Anakin. I don't mean post-Duel. I mean pre-Duel. Make Anakin fall at the end of Episode II, start the Jedi purge, and have Obi Wan spend the movie desperately trying to stop it and trying, and failing, to "reach" his friend before they have to fight it out. He fails, they fight, Obi Wan wins. Then barely gets away, chaotically, so it makes sense that he would leave Anakin alive to suffer and possibly come back. The Original Trilogy implies that "Obi Wan once thought as you do", that Vader could be turned back - hell, it doesn't just imply it, it SAYS it. But there's no indication of this in the Prequels. And it's too bad, because Obi Wan trying and failing to the point where he gives up on Vader would make Luke's success in reaching him that much more powerful later. A dropped ball by Lucas which also doesn't match something explicitly said in the Originals. Lazy. And as far as me saying "what I thought would be better" which you seem to despise, I think that's in our right - what else is discussion about? This story could've been so much better than it was, and the Original Trilogy is already there pointing the way to show you how. Lucas ignored it and made this great story into a subpar thing. I DID like Revenge of the Sith, flawed as it was, and I am a HUGE fan of Star Wars. But I will not just accept whatever comes out with that name as being "good" when it is not. The Original Trilogy is a masterpiece, and laid the groundwork for a Prequel Story that could've been even better. It wasn't. Not even close. And I'm not just saying that, but I'm saying why I think so. I think that's worthy in a Talkback, whether you can stand hearing somebody go over negative aspects of what you so unquestionably follow or not.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Funkymonkey...........While I agree Anakin's turn wasn't "abrupt" so much, there are some big problems with it. He turns to the Dark Side in order to save Padme. Sidious gets him to KILL A MASTER JEDI so Anakin can get the "secret" to save his wife. Then, as soon as he does this and pledges allegiance, when he's still quite obviously conflicted about things, the first thing his new Master does is tell him, "Oh yeah, by the way, that whole "save people from death thing? I can't really do that anyway. Glad to have you aboard, though. Hey, why don't you go kill some little kids now?" - And he DOES IT!!! Like you said, he's not "Vader" fully until the Duel, but he goes and kills kids for a guy who just admitted he'd been lying to him the whole time and can't help him afterall? Weak. Just, weak. It could have worked, but it would've had to have been handled better as a story. And that's another missed opportunity - killing innocent younglings is obvioulsy the first truly EVIL thing Anakin does. Even helping Kill Mace could be looked at or rationalized as "self-defense" or something. But the kids? And Lucas races through that moment like it's nothing - he throws it away. It's a fifteen-second scene, and it should've been a minute or so. This is a BIG MOMENT - make it so. Is he going to really do it? Show the kids go up and grab his hand and try to have him lead them to safety, but he doesn't budge - a shot of his dark, ashamed face... is he gonna do it? The kids realize there's something wrong, the recoil... Anakin can't do it, he starts to walk out, but stop... ignites his saber and turns around, then advances on the kids... Cut to the next scene. Make something so horrible, a BIG MOMENT instead of just throwing it away like Lucas does. This is Vader's first truly Evil act - let's get into it, damn. But that would require GOOD storytelling, and Lucas doesn't seem to care much about that anymore. There may not have been enough CG opportunities in that room to please him... Who knows?
May 23, 2005, 4:56 p.m. CST
i cant believe ive been reading this utter shit for over an hour now. i sadly agree with this worthess piece of shit person that this movie is good, but im not sure that i would agree about much else. being somewhat a consevative (financially) myself i cant believe how truly stupid this person is. he claims religion plays no role in his beliefs yet he uses terms such as "immoral" and even uses the bible mockingly in a tribute to W. i guess it is our fault as a species that we have some people like him. has he ever taken a philosophy class? did he even graduate from highschool? doesnt he know that there is no objective morality? he clearly has no respect for people such as alan turning, the pivotal person in deciphering the enigma code that the germans used in ww2. he was a forefather of the computer and responsible for saving thousands of lives. yet do to being banished and discredited for his homosexuality he eventually committed suicide, as this powermetal character would have it. it was a sad fate that this GREAT man had. for all we know powerman owes his existance to this wonderful human being and homosexual. people like powermetal have no place in an intelligent and peaceful world. he clearly only likes the movie because he sees his own evil mirrored in it. and on that note, rots kicks ass, word to your brother! (cause i rampaged his ass last night)
May 23, 2005, 4:59 p.m. CST
by Rock Icon
sreaming an anguished, "Noooo!" is an unrealistic response after waking up in a mechanical life support suit your best friend put you in, and being told that you killed your wife & child. It should've been a more emotionally authentic response like, "This is terribly disconcerting, how did this all happen?" Or maybe something "badass" or "pimp" like, "She was a traitor and she died a traitor's death."
May 23, 2005, 4:59 p.m. CST
But isn't Anakin's impetuosness one of his many character flaws? I don't see what the argument over his turn is. He was an impatient little guy, and always looked for the quick-fix. Instead of crack, he went to the Dark Side.
May 23, 2005, 5:01 p.m. CST
The only dicussion which will have an impact on whether Luca$ makes more films is the one his accounts has with the accountants from 20th century fox. What we say here is for own amusement. The only thing that really talks in the movie BUSINESS is money. After all movie companies are run by Sith lords.
May 23, 2005, 5:05 p.m. CST
Why in AOTC when Anakin kills all the Tuscans does Yoda hear Luke screaming NOOOoooooo from ESB?
May 23, 2005, 5:11 p.m. CST
by Darth Melkor
Where'd this conversation spawn from? Chewie never met Obi-Wan so there's no confusion in how they react in Episode 4.
May 23, 2005, 5:16 p.m. CST
by Rock Icon
Yoda doesn't hear Luke screaming he hears Qui-Gon.
May 23, 2005, 5:16 p.m. CST
Vader should have Force-choked the Emperor for a bit after hearing of Padme's death. That would have a) set-up Vader's position as the most powerful Sith entity in the galaxy and b) been completely, utterly badass. Then Emperor could have shocked him or something, developing a nice push-pull that would carry into their relationship in the OT, especially in Jedi. God, we all should have tied Lucas down and wrote this fucking thing for him, I swear.
May 23, 2005, 5:18 p.m. CST
Did you actually read what I wrote about Chewie and Obi Wan? I never claimed they had "met" in any way. What I was talking about was how Chewie is shown in Episode III to be around the Jedi(Yoda), who display remarkable powers in many ways while helping them defend their homeland. He is absolutely reverential to Yoda - he KNOWS what Jedi are and what they can do. And he is PRESENT during the purge of the Jedi - he witnessing the Empire turning on the Jedi, and lives through the wiping out of all the Jedi in the Galaxy(excpet, apparently, two). So when he encounters a Jedi again in Episode IV he doesn't bat an eyelash at one of the last remaining Jedi coming out of hiding? He says derisive things about him to Han, "the old fossil" type stuff, instead of telling Han "Hey, man, we should listen to these Jedi, I know what they can do." No. He acts like he has no experience with Jedi and acts like Obi Wan is just a crazy old bat. He doesn't even say anything when Han is making fun of the Force - "Uh, Han, I've seen these Jedi in action, is not just 'simple tricks and nonsense', trust me." Basically, Chewie's reaction to Obi Wan simply doesn't match how he acts toward the Jedi in Episode III, doubly so when you realize that he probably thinks these great warriors who showed him great power when helping them before are completely extinct - but hey, here's an actual Jedi! What's his response? "The Old Man's mad!" - That's actual Chewie "dialogue" from the Star Wars extras in the documentary - what he said about Obi Wan on set before the dubbed in the growl later. Sure, that doesn't mean that's what he actually said there in the film, but he sure said something close, judging by Han's reaction. It just doens't fit at all.
May 23, 2005, 5:22 p.m. CST
Bingo. Chewie obviously knows about Jedi, and he may have caught Obi-Wan's unscheduled amputation of Ponda at the bar (I repeat, MAY have). And if that is the case, Chewie isn't stupid. Jedi aren't the only ones with light sabers. And I'd say at that point he's grown cynical in the aftermath of the war, being that the Empire either slaughtered or enslaved an asston of wookies. And he fought alongside this same Empire before Order 66. Probably put a damper on on his trust of other people.
May 23, 2005, 5:24 p.m. CST
Listen to it again, you hear Qui-Gon yelling "Anakin! Anakin!" then you hear Luke yelling "NOOOOooooo!"
May 23, 2005, 5:24 p.m. CST
? I can't think of one...maybe because there were no memorable scenes....
May 23, 2005, 5:26 p.m. CST
Right on. Quotability is one of the big things that made Star Wars so popular. The PT had nothing to spout off. Well, except for, "Nooooooo!"
May 23, 2005, 5:26 p.m. CST
that Obi-Wan is never introduced to Chewie as a Jedi.
May 23, 2005, 5:33 p.m. CST
by slappy jones
and I am not being patronising..I dont mean "i feel sorry for you cos you just dont get it and I do cos i am better than you" like i dunno a matrix fan would say ... I mean that I feel sorry for you because it just sucks to be let down and you obviously have been. I was let down majorly by TPM and AOTC....hated them (except for the three way duel in TPM and Anakin killing the sandpeople in AOTC) but i truly loved Sith....and this was the last chance for you to like a new star wars film and you dodnt and that must suck. but for me it worked entirely. (except for nooooooo but one line..hell it wasn't even a line...the phrasing of one word aint going to ruin a fucking awesome film for me..it was just a bit hokey but you know what...fuck it. Star Wars is hokey at the end of the day. The originals were too!
May 23, 2005, 5:37 p.m. CST
think about it. In a New Hope she says "General Kenobi, you fought with my father in the Clone Wars." Now to the best of my knowledge Bail Organa never fought in the Clone Wars. He was a Senator. Any thoughts?(Yea I know its really BS but hey if all these morons can say Leia was really talking about Padme in ROTJ instead of Bail's wife whom she thought was her real mother then I can come up with a BS theory of my own.) That is all.
May 23, 2005, 5:42 p.m. CST
Chewie isn't introduced as a Jedi, but he has a Lightsaber and stands in front of Chewie while he's paying Chess or something and is teaching an Apprentice about the force. He also cuts down some guys handily in the bar. Come on. Chewie obviously knows he's a Jedi. It just doesn't mesh well, for the reasons I described above - it COULD have, had the storytelling been better - you could've done a thing with the Wookie's getting enslaved by the Empire(see my original post) and then have had Chewie and others think that they were abandoned by the Jedi for some reason as the purge is going on. Something along those lines. As it stands now, it's just more bad storytelling that doesn't fit with the original trilogy - like the Leia/Mother thing and many others, this is just one more thing Lucas left for the fanboys to try and "make work" for him. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dancemonster - Van Helsing sucked HORRIBLY. I thought it was one of the worst movies of last year. But it WAS better than Episode I or II. Why? Because it didn't have all the kiddy, cheesy crap, it was just bad. The actors actually had some LIFE to them and their characters. Though it certainly wasn't special, it was far better than the outright robotics of just about everybody on screen in the first two Prequels. And third, there were some well-constructed scenes with some creativity in construction, even if they weren't that good. The Star Wars Prequels - NONE OF THEM(not even the far better ROTS), has good scene construction ever. The scenes in those films are comprised of people standing there and talking to each other - mostly saying out loud exactly what they're thinking/feeling. It's horrendous.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------An example of an "interesting scene" I'm talking about from another terrible movie I saw for the first time recently - The Next Karate Kid. There's a scene in that film where the girl Miyagi is training is about to go to a dance. Her date comes over and encounters Miyagi in the kitchen, meeting him for the first time. What is Miyagi doing? Slicing a CUCUMBER with a knife. Slice, slice slice. Intimidating enough. the exchange goes something like this - "You have her back home at ten o'clock?" "Well, the dance isn't over until midnight... so, is one o'clock okay, sir?" "What you do for the extra hour?" "Gulp." Miyagi then spears the cucumber with his knife and points it at the guy, like he's just pointing offhand, but of course meaning so much more, then says, "You treat her with respect?" "Uh, yes. I'll treat her with respect."......................... Now that scene has some life, and it's pretty funny and creative in its construction, even if it's in a bad movie. Look at the actual dialogue on the page and it seems pretty innocuous - but the ACTIONS in the scene tell us so much more, and make everything mean something different than what they are actually saying. Those are just the kinds of scenes that you find in movies, adn the Next Karate Kid shows you that even bad movies have them. THE PREQUELS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO SCENES EVEN REMOTELY LIKE THIS. No creative scene construction, just people standing there saying EXACTLY what they're thinking/feeling/or what's going on. It's pathetic, and THAT'S why the first two are not even as good as films as your Van Helsings. Boring, lifeless, dull, bad action scenes, and overall, as just a basic movie - amateur.
May 23, 2005, 5:46 p.m. CST
We STILL don't have a cool space battle anywhere close to the ones in the OT. We never saw anything as cool as the Death Star. There wasn't a single memorable quote, except for "NOOOOOO!!!" There wasn't a single cool new villain that didn't go out like a bitch in the end. We didn't hear any new music themes as cool or iconic as the Imperial March. We didn't have a single decent ending that evoked real emotion. I can go on and on....
May 23, 2005, 5:52 p.m. CST
by Darth Pookie
While I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree that Lucas is one of the singularly most atrocious dialogue creators the planet will ever know, it's nice to know you piece together a quality comment such as "it's shit"... and OH YES, his story telling is most certainly in a class of it's own... sweet jesus bad
May 23, 2005, 5:53 p.m. CST
Lucas could have made "Episode III" a sequel to the "Ewoks" movies and it still would have been better than "Van Helsing". Say what you want about the prequels but Lucas has created a bonafied mythology in his lifetime...Stephen Sommers' claim to fame is raping Universal studio's back catalog.
May 23, 2005, 5:59 p.m. CST
"Episode III was far, far better, and by itself, a GOOD movie, I think. Definitely better than most popcorn films these days, where the Prequels were actually even worse than the average popcorn films these days. But Episode III is not close to the Original Trilogy, and when taken in context fo the Star Wars saga as a whole, it becomes mighty frustrating." That's it right there. If it doesn't walk like Star Wars, talk like Star Wars, it's not Star Wars. The prequels are imposters. But I agree with you, taken on its own, RotS is a decent movie. But with the whole mythology set out in the old trilogy, the prequels looked like slam dunks. And they weren't, mainly because George Lucas forgot, or changed his mind, what they were about, and in so doing displayed a carelessness and total lack of respect for his own material. George Lucas is to Star Wars as Michael Jackson is to his face.
May 23, 2005, 6:03 p.m. CST
I think Funkymonkey's reasoning is on the mark. A lot of folks think Anakin should have become a heartless monster after beheading Dooku, but I think the slow descent was more believable. If he felt absolutely no remorse for any of his actions, why would he turn good at the end of ROTJ? Another thing people feel wasn't believable was the tight relationship between Obi Wan & Anakin. It had been a few years between AOTC and ROTS so it isn't unreasonable to think they could have bonded more during this time...plus, both were willing to sacrifice themselves for each other when they fought Dooku in AOTC.
May 23, 2005, 6:14 p.m. CST
Thanks man. I haven't written anything on this site for years and you replied to me straight away. I know its a bit off subject, but this "talkback-ing" is fun! Um....Thats a very interesting point. Perhaps I've been too forgiving, but I nevertheless felt a genuine sense of drama in this film that was entirely lacking from the first two (PT). In fact, the way I see it, ROTS is a great story which occasionally suffers from poor execution. To put it another way: TPM and AOTC are bad movies with good bits in them, whereas ROTS is a good movie with bad bits in it. If you see what I mean. Sure, the scene with the children to which you refer did indeed feel too brutul, too soon. But the second time I watched it I was able to suspend my disbelief by attributing Anakins actions to an absolute compulsion to succeeding in his first assignment. It is plausible that the Emperor pushed Anakin to commit such an abhorrent act so early in the game, because he knew that Anakin's pride and fear would prevent any early resistance to his twisted demands. And despite denying the ability to teach Anakin such skills straight away (control over life and death), he does continue to dangle the carrot, suggesting that they should give it a try anyway. This lack of certainty, this new doubt which Sidious introduces is likely to increase Anakins desperation, not erode it. And to make matters worse, Anakin is on a very tight schedule, his kids are due at any time and his new master wont help until he has executed order 66. O.K. I have now satisfyingly convinced myself that Anakin's youngling killing spree was not entirely unrational, but I also accept that my conviction required ME to do most of the thinking. In that regard, you have a strong argument. I just feel that you should give this movie another chance. For one thing, it is never a good thing to examine art in terms of "well if I had made it, I would have done this . . . .". Its a bit like saying, "I wish Da Vinci would have painted in some more trees into the background, and a single tear running down the mona lisa's face to clarify her emotions in the picture". The star wars movies if anything have been elevated by ROTS, because NONE of the previous films had anything like the operatic, shakespearean aspirations that this film did. We should celebrate the fact that such a grand story exists within this universe, even if Lucas dropped the ball from time to time. TESB achieves its pathos in a SINGLE scene. In one line of dialogue. In other words, it succeeds in part, because of shock value, and dramatic revelation. ROTS cannot play this cheap card. Instead, its tragedy is played out over the course of an entire movie, layering its characters in virtually every scene with ever more complexity. Yes, sometimes it fails. George Lucas is hardly a poet, and his directorial decisions have thrown a question mark over scenes which should have provided answers. But this is STARWARS, not MacBeth, and yet, it is a credit to mainstream, populist entertainment that starwars can now be compared (albeit shakily) to such higher forms of art at all. There are actually parallels in this story, to Faust, Othello and even the bible (Adam and the apple anyone?). I for one applaud Lucas for that. Even if I do want to slap him for that NOOOOOO atrocity, AND the last 7 years of my life, wasted on such flimsy cartoons as TPM and AOTC.
May 23, 2005, 6:17 p.m. CST
2 things ruined the NT for me, the lack of relationships and character development and the pacing. Where were the relationships? The thing that connected us to the OT were the relationships between the characters we loved. We all could indentify with some aspect of one of the core characters, Luke, Han, Chewie, Leia. They were friends and family who faced challenges together loved each other and developed as characters. Han gaining respect for faith in the force. Luke gaining confidence in himself, almost like the Wizard of Oz in this respect. Where were these positive relationships in the NT? The only positive one was possibly Qui-Gon and young Anakin. Other than that there were no true friendships or love. We BELIEVED that Han and Leia fell in love. I can't imagine what drew Anakin and Padme together. Also, lets think about Jar Jar, both created and destroyed by a focus group. He was supposed to be our new Chewbacca but we hated him. This changed everything for Lucas. I'm SURE he was supposed to be the comic relief throughout the series but had to cut him because of the strong reaction against. So there was no humor after he left, not that we missed Jar Jars. The Jedi were portrayed as being no fun at all. How many of you dreamed of being a Jedi when (if) you were young before seeing these films? They were supposed to be the knights of the roundtable, not priests with a license to kill. As far as the pacing, many people don't realize that ALL of these films individually take place over the space of a few days. It works for the OT but handcuffs the NT into sloppy pacing and narrative. There was no chance we would ever see our collective vision of a young Vader in his suit, at his most powerful or see Anakin growing anf being trained because it wouldn't have fit the "template". I'm sure we all imagined how these films would be and it couldn't have met all our expectations. But for me personally, they failed.
May 23, 2005, 6:25 p.m. CST
That was fucking funny man. (it's actually quite hard to not sound sarcastic when playing this game). Keep up the good work. ROTS ROCKS
May 23, 2005, 6:27 p.m. CST
You have valid points, but why would Chewie automatically think that Obi-Wan is a Jedi? Jedi aren't the only ones in the galaxy who possess light sabers (General Grievous, Dark Jedi, Sith), and we never see Obi-Wan exhibit any kind of force power. He is only teaching Luke, and it's only a beginner's lesson. Nothing to be impressed about. So it is quite possible that Chewie thinks that this old man's a kook, especially since all Jedi were supposedly killed. And who hasn't heard of the millenium Falcon? It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs. She's fast enough for you, old man.
May 23, 2005, 6:42 p.m. CST
Firstly.. I liked the film.. top shelf entertainment.. my only gripes are 1) I would have thought it would have been better if Vader had have let out a low, sorrowful moan building to a giant yell of anger, as it's building we see looks of worry on those surrounding him, you can hear a magnetic hum filling the room, something bad is about to happen and this poor fucking powerful bastard is making it happen... and then when he lets out the yell we watch as everything in the room buckles on itself, cannisters, walls, droids crushing etc... also... 2) I think it would have played better if Padme hadn't named the babies, firstly because it seemed forced and a little stupid.. and secondly it would seem like a better way to introduce them in the later episodes... later in Episode 4 the boy we see Owen Lars take to the Jawas to get some droids is one Skywalker baby... Luke.. and that 'there is another' skywalker baby... which we find out later in the story is Leia. I just think it would have played better across the WHOLE story.. rather than a part of a story within a story. 3) Ian McDiarmid goes from a menacing "Are you threatening me master jedi" bad guy who I find far more scary to a moustache twirling overacted cliche.. 4) the whole "I'm a good guy, wait I need him, okay now I'm a bad guy" scene.. it should have been a slow burn.. not spontaneous combustion... other than that.. everything else was sensational. Considering I had a list of at least 10 things in the previous prequels that should have been changed.. the acting was better (considering the dialogue), the effects and story were better, the overall film was better than previous attempts and now ranks above Jedi but below ANH and EMPIRE..... 7.5/10
May 23, 2005, 6:44 p.m. CST
Interesting comments, as usual with you. I actually mostly agree with what you are saying here, and remember, I do like ROTS as its own film. I think it is a good movie, and it did give me an emotional response. However, it is in the larger picture that the film starts to have serious questions, as well as the "what could have been" and "what was" when you tie it into what we know was supposed to happen in the Original Trilogy. As for the emotional response, it's difficult for me to decide whether or not that response has anything to do with the film and the filmmaking itself or if it was more because of the baggage that WE carry into seeing such things based on our previous knowledge of the Original Trilogy, as well as our "built up" ideas about this being the last Star Wars film, etc. What every Star Wars fan has been dreaming about in terms of the Prequel story for decades really all happens in this film - the creation of the suited Vader, the birth of Luke and Leia, the fall of the Old Republic and the Jedi, etc. The way the film is, I think it has emotional resonance largely because of what we carry into it rather than the film itself. If you were somehow able to look at this film on its own, without this prior knowledge, I really doubt it would've been nearly as emotionally affecting. Again, I don't think there should've been a dry eye in the house with this story - it is by its nature a powerful story loaded with possibility. But the only people really "affected" were Star Wars fans, I think, and even then not affected in any large way or in large numbers. There's hardly any excuse for that with these movies. I do agree with you that it is remarkable that Lucas has elevated this Space Opera to such standards, with the Original Trilogy, that we'd talk about it in Shakespearean terms. It is remarkable, and very earned, but these new films didn't live up to the promise, in my opinion. In terms of Anakin's fall and the killing of the younglings, you make an interesting point, but it raises another - you say Anakin would be even more tempted to stay with the Emperor when he admits he'd been lying and didn't have the "secret" afterall, but that they could find it together in time. But then later you also mention that Anakin was "racing against time" because the Twins were due any day now. Now this didn't come across(that they were due any day) in the first place until the end when they pulled out what looked like full-term babies. That ticking clock should've been put in the film beforehand, to give Anakin more of a sense of desperation - as it stands she doesn't look that pregnant, and I'm sure most of the audience thinks she's not due for months. Also, your two points actually cancel each other out! If she's due any day, which makes Anakin racing the clock in desperation, but then the Emperor ALSO tells him he basically cannot help him, then it makes his offer of "in time discovering the secret" far less important, and actually basically worthless. Like you say, there's hardly any time, so obviously the Emperor cannot help Anakin - so his offer is worthless - which makes Anakin's killing of the younglings seem even MORE suspect. He's still conflicted at this point, and the guy has just admitted he can't help him and has been lying to him - the Emperor can offer him nothing in time if he's racing the clock. So why on earth do something so Evil, especially if he still has conflict? It makes no storytelling sense. And sorry if you don't like the second-guessing of art. I'm a filmmaker myself, so I naturally do that with films - especially films that had such potential that were not realized, such as Revenge of the Sith. Good points, though.
May 23, 2005, 6:45 p.m. CST
The line goes: "Years ago you SERVED my father in the clone wars." OB1 and the jedi fought for the republic, thus for the senate, which Bail was a part of. DAGAN: can you mention any "cucumber-scenes" in the OT?
May 23, 2005, 6:53 p.m. CST
I still don't think it works. It seems out of place. Chewie would've likely heard of Obi Wan anyway - he was a famous Jedi and one of the elite in the Galaxy. And he's clearly a Jedi himself by his actions. The only other person in the Original Trilogy with a Lightsaber is Vader, so they're not exactly common. But anyway, you bring up an interesting point about Dark Jedi. It's another thing Lucas got wrong. Where are they? If you watch the films, it seems that only Sith are "Dark Jedi". But that doesn't make any sense and hurts the story. There's supposedly even a deleted scene in Clones where Obi Wan is in the library and there are some busts or pictures or something of the Jedi that went to the Dark Side - and it was just a few, basically the Sith Lords. Dark Jedi should be everywhere. In the Original Trilogy, it seems Luke is always in danger of turning to the Dark Side. This makes sense, too - young people tapping into this great power - some will inevitably choose the "quick and easy path" and go Dark. The Jedi training system makes this unlikely, but it should still happen quite a bit - if even just 10% of the time. Jedi go bad, they lose them to the Dark Side. It happens. That also makes for a better story, as it gives people a real sense that Luke could turn - you don't need a Sith Lord to turn you, you can do it yourself by "being seduced by the Dark Side of the Force" as Obi Wan tells Luke. It would also give the Jedi better adversaries and make the Galaxy so much cooler. The Sith are Dark Jedi, too, but they are like a super-elite Order of Dark Jedi - the best, with the best tradition of Dark Side Secrets passed down through the years. The Sith are Dark Jedi, but Dark Jedi are not necessarily Sith. This is the way it should have been, but the movies seem to say that Dark Jedi are Sith, and it takes a Sith Lord to turn a Jedi Dark, to "seduce them to the Dark Side of the Force", which makes the precarious training of the Jedi and Luke in particular much less dramatic.
May 23, 2005, 7:02 p.m. CST
Surely. For its "cinematic equivalent", just think of how much cooler cinematically things occur - such as Luke getting raised into the carbon freezing chamber, putting his gun up, the lights go down, the breathing up, he turns and sees Vader standing there, Vader says his lines, Luke moodily walks up to him, they stand there staring at each other, lightsabers out, no words, etc. I didn't do that scene justice, but just pop it in the player or think about it yourself and tell me where in the new Trilogy did anything so cinematically powerful exist? Obi Wan vs. Vader? The setup to that was cinematically pedestrian in terms of how it was shot. What about the Luke/Yoda scenes on Dagobah - dramatic scenes that seemed to move and flow with the narrative - Luke in Yoda's hut for instance, finding out who Yoda is... It's cinematic, and far more interesting. Scenes like those simply do not exist in the whole of the Prequel Trilogy, which simply features people standing there saying exactly what they think or feel to each other in boring dialogue exchanges.
May 23, 2005, 7:03 p.m. CST
Am I the only one who was really disappointed to not learn why the cave on Dagobah was so strong with the Dark Side that it was able to cancel out Yoda's prescence? Shouldn't we AT LEAST seen Yoda going to Dagobah... we saw Luke, Leia and Obi-Wan all return to their respective homes... oh well, guess I'll have to wait for the HD Extended Super-Special Platinum Edition.
May 23, 2005, 7:04 p.m. CST
For the ones that hated the new movies, sucks to be you.
May 23, 2005, 7:07 p.m. CST
I agree whole heartedly with your comments regarding the stuff that just doesn't gel. Another that doesn't work for me now in ANH is when Obi Wan and Vader meet. Seems to me, that scene should now be much more powerful a meeting than just, "I was but the learner, now I am the master." Also the fact Obi-Wan calls him "Darth" instead of Vader or even Anakin. But that big reveal was for ESB 25yrs ago. But what all these inconsistencies really show me is how Lucas has in some ways rejected the OT, hence his trying to change things with the SE's and then again in the DVDs. And his lack of really wanting to go that little extra mile to finish "his own story" and correctly tie up all the loose ends. I think because of the limitations he claims he had back then, he just doesn't care that much about the "little things" and cares more for throwing in the forced nostalgia thinking that's good enough to link the films. I bet he actually embraces the PT more due to the fact he can now fill it with CG, which apparently is the crutch he needed. It's a shame considering the OT is far superior in every way to the PT.
May 23, 2005, 7:16 p.m. CST
This is a long thread and so forgive me if someone else has pointed this out, but there are even more continuity flaws than the Chewie/Obi Wan thing. ROTS ends with Yoda saying they should all hide out until it's time to regroup. He makes it sounds like a plan. But if that is the case, why didn't Obi Wan start training Luke right away, when he was a kid? He knows he's going to be powerful, right? For that matter, why does Obi Wan, in Empire, have to CONVINCE Yoda to pick up Luke's training? Yoda says Luke is too hold, acts like has better things to be doing in the swamp. This is a huge error, and surely won't make sense to those unfortunate people in future years who watch all six in numerical order. It's a problem that could have been easily solved, by showing the true fragmentation of the good guys. Obi Wan could have just fled, losing his mind over what has happened with Aniken. And Yoda could have been presumed dead. It's just interesting that even on top of such big picture concerns, even the little stuff doesn't add up, as Dagan pointed out in the Next Karate Kid example. Basically, the original trilogy has no leg to stand on - if the little scenes would have been more complete, more entertaining, then some of the big picture stuff could have been forgiven. And by the same token, if some of the big stuff would have been more elegant, then we may have gotten swept up in the majesty and not worried so much about the small stuff. But that is the difference between good movies and bad - good movies get all the little moments right. There are no such moments anywhere in the new trilogy.
May 23, 2005, 7:20 p.m. CST
I mean, this is the guy who resolved a romantic triangle by making 2 of the participants SIBLINGS.
Great and valid points all. I felt the same way
May 23, 2005, 7:24 p.m. CST
Great and valid points all. I felt the same way
May 23, 2005, 7:31 p.m. CST
I'm convinced that Palpatine and Anakin were watching a holophone performance during their little talk...
May 23, 2005, 7:32 p.m. CST
Alright, alright. Tonight Dagan, you win. I'm afraid I'm living in Germany right now and its getting quite late so I can't properly respond to your comments. Although I will say that you're a good writer/sparring partner. I had noticed the potential contradiction myself as I wrote my previous entry. I was just hoping that you wouldn't pick up on it :) . However, I'm still not totally convinced. I'm a medical student and childbirth is very often an unpredictable event. Even if Padme was due, that does not necessarily equate an instant birth. Anakin's "homework" could have been successfully completed in a single day, afterwhich the two Siths could have settled down to a theoritcal week or two of dark arts practice. But then, contradiction or not, i feel as though I am starting to drift away from our original debate: Is ROTS populated with missed opportunities or is it in fact the best that it could have been? And to that, I would have to answer: A bit of both. Ultimately, time will tell. Your observation that our preconceptions will have influenced our take on ROTS is a valid one. And I think that when the dust has settled, we can both look at the film for what it really is. But for now, I have at least found something that I have not had for a number of years with regard to these movies: The glimmer of a genuine, new hope. And with that, I'm off to bed. Thanks for taking me seriously. Not many people do.
May 23, 2005, 7:47 p.m. CST
No problem man. Despite my objective take on the movie, I have to say that deep down, in the pit of my stomach, I was fucking loving it too. The cinematography, the music, the story, even the acting. In that final hour, all was forgiven.
May 23, 2005, 7:48 p.m. CST
Does nobody else think that's completely fucking ridiculous?
May 23, 2005, 7:58 p.m. CST
You'd think that one quote ruined the entire movie for them. By the way, I predicted this was going to happen before I saw the film or read any fan reaction (besides for Kevin Smith's). You wanna know why? Because the people who "hate" on Star Wars aren't "haters." They actually have a conflicted relationship with the damn thing. They pour their fucking heart and soul into it, all of it, and then when it's not the movie they'd envisioned it's a supreme disappointment. Vader didn't "Force-choke" the Emperor instead of saying "NOOOOO!" because the "NO," to me, as melodramatic as it is, is more powerful there than some more pointless badassery. He'd choked his own fucking wife, for Pete's sake. The "NO" is the cry of an anguished man who's given up on life completely. Usually how it goes in tragedies structured like this was. Also, he didn't "Force-choke" the Emperor because it's not a position of power he'd earned. The Emperor was superior to Yoda, Yoda to Obi-Wan, and Obi-Wan to Anakin. So you just assume now that he looks like the guy whose costume you wore for 10 years straight on Halloween he's an instant "hard man?" No. It's the same reason he wanted to kill the Emperor in the OT but didn't. He's not powerful enough to beat him. Personally, I don't think that was the most important scene in the movie anyway, but people just can't seem to get over it. Just because the moment didn't go down exactly the way you'd dreamed it would doesn't mean that Lucas doesn't know what he's doing, although an argument can be made for that based on other things.
May 23, 2005, 7:59 p.m. CST
by Darth Pookie
You know, is't almost as if there is a directoral spectrum comparible to the visible light spectrum of the universe, lol. IMHO, Lucas is on one end of the spectrum, beautiful camera work, large-scale atmospheric shots with massive plot development, terribly written and unbelievable dialogue that would never be heard in reality, and very talented actors and actresses whom are directed horribly in each scene and do the best with what they have... and then there's Tarantino on the other end- beautiful camera work, yet with small scale shots and personal storylines, the similarly atrocious dialogue that is as poorly written as a typical howard stern radio hour, and the extremely talented actors he continues to recruit who always seem to strugle with what they have... the parallels are astounding... to say the least of the fact that they both are piss poor directors and yet still seem to come up with movies that for some reason have redeeming values that completely pull me in and leave me wanting more... maybe it's the people they surround themselves with...
May 23, 2005, 8:02 p.m. CST
I would have preferred just a long drawn out and angry yell... or something.
May 23, 2005, 8:02 p.m. CST
I agree, generally--makes one wonder what the hell happened to him. Yeah, watching Ep. III was truly an exercise in frustration. Because we love these films (at least the OT) so damned much, and were really rooting for George this time.
May 23, 2005, 8:11 p.m. CST
The chase was clearly done to show, "See what we can animate?" It ate up enough time for me to go to the bathroom, then go to the snack bar, and get two sodas... without missing anything vital... other than more chasing.
May 23, 2005, 8:14 p.m. CST
by Thirteen 13
Well first off let me just say, that yes, Episode three was a pretty good movie. Not great, and in some parts awful, but overall kinda sorta pretty good. If you pretend the first two were never made, Revenge of the Sith would manage to barely squeek its way into the Star Wars Pantheon and rank a very distant 4th. Now that being said, I remember a long time ago when Lucas first announced plans for Episode 1, that there were a few skeptics out there on the message boards worried because of what Lucas did when he had complete creative control and decided to create the Ewoks. At the time we didn't know it, but with the Ewoks Lucas was giving us a clear message as to where his creativity is when given complete control of a movie ( dancing bears, gung gung parades, Jar Jar's, acorbatic coughing robots, ect. ect.) I clearly remember seeing these few skeptics being screamed at and shouted down. I wouldn't be shocked if a few of these skeptics actually recieved death threats. Well then along comes the release of The Phantom Menace and it turned out to be an even worse bucket of vomit that even the most skeptical skeptic could have even imagined it. And most everyone agreed that it was a bucket of vomit ( except for you hardcore apologists). That was what created the so-called Star Wars haters, and also what created the Star Wars apologists. Then came all the excuses: " You have to look at it through the eyes of a child ", " I think Jar Jar wasn't so bad and was even quite good", " I like the fact that Darth Vader was portrayed as a child saying Yippee. It shows his innocence ", ect. ect.There were even worse excuses, but I won't bother because they are so ridiculous. Then came the time when Attack of the Clones did noticably worse that Phantom Menace in regards to box office recipts for obvious reasons. Well now all you Star Wars apologists are now trying to paint this image that the Star Wars haters are some kind of fringe internet cult that is in the minority, and has personality problems, anger issues and mental problems. I disagree. I think you Star Wars apologists are the fringe internet cult. I mean look at you. You actually camp out for weeks in front of a movie theater to get tickets in an age where you can buy tickets in advance online and three weeks ahead of time. When asked why you do it your reply is "Tradition". No no no no. The reason why guys like me waited in line back in the days of A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back was because there were no advance ticket sales or online ticket sales. We did it because that was the ONLY way to get tickets. Waiting in line for that long sucked, and if there were easier ways made available to buy tickets most of us would have jumped on that chance. But there you are outside camped out like geek vagrants because of so-called tradition, even though Lucas planned a 9,000 print release with half of the theaters showing it on 6 screens 24/7. And your still camped out for episode two even after that Phantom Menace vomit. Now given that one has to ask now who really is the internet fringe cult with mental problems. Whats even worse, is that even though George Lucas has on several occasions made it quite clear that he just wants to get these movies over with and out of the way so he can do the projects he really wants to do, your still looking for secret meanings in the story lines and wondering what hidden surprises Lucas had up his sleeve. There are none. Lucas really doesn't care a whole lot about Star Wars anymore. Revenge of the Sith was only a 55 day shoot. Peter Jackson ( A talented director) had over 110 days of shooting for his King Kong remake, which will make more money than Revenge of the Sith. And I'm sure it was probably pointed out that he left a huge plot hole with Annakin not giving Ben his light Saber and wanting his son to have it. And I'm sure Lucas's reaction was just shrugging his shoulders followed by a dismissive wave thinking that nobody would notice, and that the ones who do, will spend years on the message boards explaining it away and trying to figure out the hidden meanings and the genius behind why he left that part out. Afterall, he wants to finish these so he can work on other projects that he really wants to do ( needless to say, I will not be paying money to see these future projects). Oh yeah, the apologists are now once again resorting to the box office receipts excuse. Well lets do the math here. I paid and saw Phantom Menace just once, and walked out vowing to never watch it again. Many people did the same as I did because we were under the impression that we were paying to see a Star Wars movie, and what we got was pretty damn far from even resembling a Star Wars film. So we all paid once. Thats enough to put it in the 110 million mark. However you fanatics saw the damn thing 25 times and bragged about it. Thats what put it in the 400 million mark. So again you have to ask, who is actually the fringe internet cult here with mental problems? The apologists or the Haters? Even many of you apologists are actually admitting that the first two were complete vomit without even realizing it when you say things like " George Lucas redeemed.", or " Eat crow all you haters, word is this one is good " There is some hope for Star Wars though. Lucas is already letting out controlled leaks that this might go to Television, and seeing how he has said he wants to do other projects so bad, chances are very good that he will hand this off to another director and producer. So there is no possible way this can get any worse. It can only get better.
May 23, 2005, 8:19 p.m. CST
Which side can out-marginalize the other? Stay tuned!!
May 23, 2005, 8:42 p.m. CST
I was always under the impression that Luke had been there before. I guess Lucas changed his mind.
May 23, 2005, 8:43 p.m. CST
Great flick, it still had a hint of the annoying parts in AOTC but it was still a great end for a storie that one has been a big part of alot of peoples childhoods.
May 23, 2005, 8:48 p.m. CST
Actually, this is merely a common misconception. What Vader actually yelled after being told he killed Padme was, "Ohhh."
May 23, 2005, 8:48 p.m. CST
May 23, 2005, 8:55 p.m. CST
Yes, I've always thought that, too. The writers of the Empire Strikes Back were obviously laying in the fact, subtly, that Luke had been to Dagobah, probably as a baby. "There's something familiar about this place." "It's like something out of a dream, or..." etc. etc. It seems as if Obi Wan was originally supposed to stop off on Dagobah with Luke to confer with Yoda about what to do with him. I always thought Yoda might refuse to train him, as a product of his Father - refuse to have anything to do with him. This would also set up Yoda's reluctance to train Luke in Episode V quite nicely - as it stands in the "new" version with all the films there, it's going to confuse people why Yoda would refuse to train Luke in that scene. They leave with the intention of doing just that, it seems, in Episode III... "some day" is the sentiment there, it seemed like. That's just yet ANOTHER interesting bit of plotting from the Original Trilogy that Lucas chose to disregard/go against. But it's okay, he knows that anything like that can be explained away by "The Force" by the Internet fanboys.
May 23, 2005, 8:56 p.m. CST
You seem an interesting fellow, and I have some things I'd like to ask you. Wanna take this to email?
May 23, 2005, 8:59 p.m. CST
I think it illustrates perfectly why the OT are great examples of CINEMA and ART, while the PT are just, well, shit. In ESB's last scene Luke and Leia look out the window at a spiral galaxy, as Lando and Chewie speeds away in the Falcon...from the look in their faces...we can tell, no, we KNEW exactly what they were feeling..they were missing their friend Han, they knew he was still alive, out there, somewhere, in the vastness of space..and they are going to do whatever it takes to find him. And as the camera pulls back, to reveal the rebel fleet..it was a scene of incredible emotion, sadness, and beauty..I still get goosebumps no matter how many times I watch it..especially with the beautiful JW music in the background.. Now compare this with the joke that is the "ending" of ROTS...we got two unknown people that we don't give a shit about..looking at the sunset the same way Luke did in ANH..I mean, wow, WHAT GENIUS, how did Lucas ever thought of that one??? And then movie ends and all you're left with is a feeling of WTF???
May 23, 2005, 9:08 p.m. CST
Opa-opa - I think you hit on something interesting here, and it's like I said in a post above. I liked Revenge of the Sith, and even felt an emotional response, but I think the response people get doesn't come from teh film itself, but from what we are carrying with us from the Original Trilogy. This is a case in point. I found the ending emotionally satisfying - there at the Lars homsetead. But without Episode IV and the rest of the Original Trilogy, it wouldn't have been powerful at all. According to Lucas' vision, this is Episode I - VI. Future generations are supposed to watch it as one big story(though I doubt many that watch it this way will get past I and II, unfortunately). But the "power" that scene gives comes from our having seen Episode IV, and what that moment with Luke has meant to us Star Wars fans over the years. Without that pre-knowledge and built up love, I can't imagine that ending packs much of a punch at all. This goes for everything in the film, but this is a good example - this movie derives its emotional power from the ORIGINAL TRILOGY, not from anything it does on its own. It should have easily had its own power, but I don't think people unfamiliar with the series will be that affected by anything in Episode III - the story, though, should have been powerful enough to affect any audience. Lucas just did not pull this movie off as he should have.
May 23, 2005, 9:09 p.m. CST
May 23, 2005, 9:13 p.m. CST
Absolutely right on. Dagan...great posts. ROTS is good summer movie on it's own, but at the end of the day the prequels as a whole just don't really fit. Too many loose ends that Lucas just didn't seem to care about. And no amount of fan-boy imagineering can fill in the gaps. OT, as Ford put it, touched something primal. They connected with everybody, not just children, but everybody. The new films are the opposite. You actualy feel detached from what's going on. ROTS is the only one with any sense of drama. But the mythology, magic, and mystery seem somehow stained. There are some great moments throughout the prequels, but now that's it over--looking back, and comparing it to OT...it's just kind of a shame really. I'm not sad that it's over, I'm sad that lightning didn't strike twice. And it COULD have I believe...but alas...it's only a summer movie. (but ANH/TESB seemed like so much more)
May 23, 2005, 9:16 p.m. CST
But Dagan, even to someone like myself who is familiar with the OT, I didn't find the ending touching, I found it embarassing. it was just such a uninspired, clumsy, forced attempt by Lucas to evoke some feelings of sentimentality, that it was downright embarassing. Actually the only good thing I felt as the credits rolled is, thank god it's finally fucking over.
May 23, 2005, 9:22 p.m. CST
With some puzzlement and more than a little amusement I have followed the postings put forth by the haters ever since TPM was released. The whole "raped my childhood" theme was a bit much and too be honest I did not get where they were coming from. Then after reading several new posts where people describe where they were and how old when the OT was released I finally got it...most of you were little kids when you first saw SW's in theatres or were not even born. Well that changes everything. I don't care how often you revisit the older films as an adult you will ALWAYS see them through the eyes of the kid you once were..flaws and all. I was living in Austin an 17 when the first movie came out in the summer of 77. Did it blow me away? Sure. But even then I saw the cheesey dialogue and so-so acting for what it was. Pure fun and not taking itself too seriously. The same with the sequels. I remember all the small kids who attended those first movies and really enjoyed the looks of awe and wonder on their faces. Who knew so many of them would grow up to be miserable little haters who would want to deny a new generation of kids the same enjoyment...for what? A purely adult version of Star Wars that only they would appreciate or understand. There's plenty of grown-up sci-fi around. Let kids of all ages enjoy the cheesier pulp of Star Wars. and believe me...little kids had no problem enjoyng any of the prequels. I have watched my son go from a 9 year old thrilling to TPM to a 16 year old loving ROTS. Guess it was because he wasn's saddled with all of the unrealistic expectations and the vain wish to recapture the feelings of childhood. Maybe in his forties when someone is doing eps 7-9 he might feel differently. That would be a shame because it would detract from the pleasure he got watching these films. Just enjoy the movies for what they are people. Pop fun.
May 23, 2005, 9:25 p.m. CST
Don't know yet whether it will s urpass Sith (esp. if Sith crosses the $400 mill mark, which it probably will), but seriously when was the last time we saw a truly bad-ass movie monster like Kong?? And from a truly gifted director? Sorry this is off-topic, but that was a good point.
May 23, 2005, 9:25 p.m. CST
I saw a list of the deleted scenes from ROTS and "Yoda Arriving on Dagobah" was one of them. I'm very curious to see it. Also, what the f happened to the scene where Qui-Gon is supposed to appear??? Yoda just explains it in a sentence and that's all we get?
May 23, 2005, 9:29 p.m. CST
I couldn't help wondering if he'd have continued with these a few years after Jedi how would it have compared. Although, he always seemed to state that the technology wasn't there. Waiting for technology to catch up might was been why the "heart and magic" just aren't there in the PT. Forcing yourself to work with what you have always tends to make you more creative. That's why I think the OT has a better set of characters we care about. Not necessarily better dialog, but the the heart is there. With Lucas being able to do pretty much anything he wants, I think he's spent to much time on spectacle and trying to wow us, then realizing "oh, I need to write something good." You look back on every interview and making of, and Lucas always said the FX take a back seat to my story. We'll if he'd stuck to his guns, things might have turned out better.
May 23, 2005, 9:30 p.m. CST
"It's like something out of a dream" Clearly, Luke had been there before. Chickloni...I too thought something more should have been made of that cave. Ever since TPM I thought it was a stupid idea that Anakin was from Tatooine, just as Luke. Ok, ok maybe he was born someplace else. Obi-wan being from Tatooine would have made more sense. Didn't the original SW universe guide say that Owen was Obi-wan's brother? But the twins should have definately been on Dagabah for a little while at least. And the evil of the cave could have been explained...another missed opportunity.
May 23, 2005, 9:34 p.m. CST
Could be read one of twwo wasys.: Luke sensed Yoda "watching Over him, two, Yoda was at his birth, so felt familliar.
May 23, 2005, 9:44 p.m. CST
May 23, 2005, 9:50 p.m. CST
Don't know if this has been brought up in a talkback already but what happened to Anakin's saber at the end of ROTS? I don't remember Kenobi picking it up but obviously from Ep IV he had it?
May 23, 2005, 9:51 p.m. CST
Not only was Obi-Wan not introduced as a Jedi, he wasn't even referred to as Obi-Wan. Luke only calls him "Ben". So I don't doubt that Chewie ever heard of him. He just didn't know that was him. As for Dagobah, that would've been cool. Hopefully in the TV series there'll be some shit about it, but who knows.
May 23, 2005, 9:54 p.m. CST
Few points on why Palpatine needed Anakin. First, maybe it's just part of his Sith DNA that he NEEDS an apprentice, to pass on his knowledge. Second, like a bond villain, he needs a soldier villain to his archvillain. In other words, he needs MUSCLE to match his MIND. Third, and perhaps most importantly, if you buy into the whole "Sidious or Plaugeis was Anakin's 'pseudo-father'" then it would be natural that Palpatine, who had been a parental figure to Anakin for the thirteen years or so of Anakin's jedi training, would want to bring his "son" into the fold, as Vader wished to bring Luke to the Dark Side.
May 23, 2005, 9:54 p.m. CST
Somebody mentioned Titanic...I think Dagan maybe. Say whatever you want about that movie...at least it WORKED. It connected with audiences in spite of cheezy dialogue, "a woman's heart is a deep ocean of secrets"...jesus. But Cameron is really good at pulling all the pieces together and not missing plot points when he sees them. He keeps things tight, and doesn't get bogged down, even when dealing with heavy exposition. Lucas would have been wise to ask him to come play with his Star-Wars toys methinks.
May 23, 2005, 9:54 p.m. CST
Obi-Wan picked it up at the end of the duel, after the triple-stump.
May 23, 2005, 9:55 p.m. CST
At the end of the Duel in ROTS, there is a closeup of Kenobi picking up Anakin's lightsaber.
May 23, 2005, 9:59 p.m. CST
must have been scavenging thru the popcorn tub when it happened...
May 23, 2005, 10:02 p.m. CST
So before I go through making a long post I'll check to see if this thing takes.
May 23, 2005, 10:05 p.m. CST
I remember that I really liked Phantom Menace when it came out. And I remember having a good time in Attack of the Clones. In fact, I really like these movies when I actually watch them. When I get away from them, I see their flaws, get pissed, become a hater. But when I'm watching them, I'm an apologist. Does anybody else out there experience this discrepency?
May 23, 2005, 10:05 p.m. CST
I don't know. I really love SW and always will but I have to admit that it's difficult to accept that a boy who had been trained most of his life as a Jedi could so easily "turn" and kill younglings and take part in the destruction of all Jedi because he wanted to save the life of his woman. That's a mighty high price for coochie.
May 23, 2005, 10:10 p.m. CST
I feel exactly the same way. I really like to view the whole thing as one singular story and it is GL's idea so the direction he takes is just the way it is as far as I'm concerned. The truth is that I don't really know how to look at a SW film negatively. I define them differently than any other movies. But when I read all of the negative knit picking that is often posted here, it's like I find new reasons to not like them.....but I still do. Especially whenever I just dive into the mythos.....bad acting and all.
May 23, 2005, 10:14 p.m. CST
Maybe I'm putting more depth to Anakin's actions, but I really bought it. The choice he had was: Betray the Jedi, save his wife and child. How many people out there would do EXACTLY the same? To save the woman or man they loved, would they betray everything they believed in? I think that Lucas lessened the impact of Anakin's decision by trying to give him multiple reasons to turn, ie: the Jedi "plot," bringing peace to the Galaxy, etc. Really the main deal for Anakin was to save his wife and kid. I buy it.
May 23, 2005, 10:18 p.m. CST
Now that my first impressions are past and I've had a chance to see this movie the way it was intended (in DLP), I wanted take the time to share my thoughts on this last film in the saga we've all enjoyed for so long. One of the great things about the SW saga is how it outgrew just being a successful movie and turned into a virtual (and literal) community. Books, comics, games, websites, messageboards, toys and other collectables, conventions and more have given fans of this saga a sense of ownership in the saga that has hardly ever been rivaled. Yes, there were great sagas before SW and there will be more after, but everyone who has ever been touched by this saga in any way has carried the myth forward. I'd like to think that was part of Lucas' intention in creating the saga, but if it was just a happy accident, it's one that I've been thrilled to be a part of...and make no mistake, we've ALL been a part of it...on some level. When I attended C lll last month, it was the culmination of almost 30 years of experiencing this great saga. While on the surface to the most casual observer, the whole exercise looked like nothing more than a huge exercise in commercialism, there was alot going on that showed just how significant a part this saga has played in the lifes of so many people of all ages, of all walks of life. Yes, the exhibition room was a blast of SW possessions, but some of the things that made me proud to be a fan were seeing the wonderful sense of community that existed, from a great organisation like the 501st to the artists that shared their enthusiasm and the passion for their work and who enjoyed sharing it with those who truly appreciated it. Nothing came as close to that feeling of seeing SW for the first time all those summers ago as being in that ballroom as Rick McCallum showed us footage from ROTS...his enthusiasm was returned by everyone there. It was magic... Another aspect of "ownership" we all share for SW came in following every aspect of the movies, waiting for those "spoilers" (or trying in vain to avoid them!!), going behind the scenes via the internet, magazines & books and "getting to know" Lucas and the artists behind this saga. It has been another amazing aspect to being a part of this saga. I won't paint too rosy a picture, sometimes folks could let their expectations and their sense of ownership run away with them (and descend into the occasional bout of rudeness) and I found myself caught up in my own web of expectations created by all the web-surfing, book-reading and magazine viewing as I strained to soak up all I could about this final chapter in this saga. As that first midnight show unspooled before my eyes, I had an amazing array of emotion...knowing this was the last chapter made me hope I would have all my personal expectations met...I wanted to see every scene I read about online or read in the book be in this movie. Yes, there was a bit of disappointment (especially missing Qui-gon & the birth of the rebellion), but on the whole, I was simply overwhelmed and thrilled by what the movie contained. Having watched it several times as it is, with those early expectations evaporated, has left me totally appreciating and enjoying this movie. Everyone involved from actors to artists to Lucas himself seemed energized for this chapter and it showed, from stirring performances to scenes crammed with so much detail that multiple viewings would be inevitable (and welcome) to take it all in... One of the points of sadness about finally seeing this movie is knowing this is it...the saga is really over. Yes, books, games, comics & toys will continue...a television series is on the way...but the saga that started in the middle about that farmboy on a desert world that would redeem his father was over & done. It's hard not to feel sad....but it doesn't stop me from enjoying this moment... It was interesting to read how Lucas approaches making his movies over the course of the saga, moreso with the prequels than the original...working so closely with the artists who inspire him and in turn are inspired by him to create the awesome worlds we as viewers get to inhabit. One of the major points made by Lucas as he made these movies is that for him, the script is just one level of how the story of the movie falls together...that for him, he likes to focus on the visual aspect of telling his story. This has gotten him into a little hot water with both fans and critics over what some consider to be a weakness in these movies. I guess being a visual artist myself has allowed me to make the leap past that "problem" and take Lucas at his word and follow along. For me, the results are stunning...I like the aspect of taking the visual art of this story to the forefront for how the story is being told. Some of the best filmakers do this effortlessly, from the classic images of Chaplin, Lean and Wells to our modern masters like Speilberg, Scott (Ridley), Cameron, Jackson(Peter), Rodriguez and yes, Lucas. All of the Star Wars films lean heavily on the idea of images over words, but Revenge of the Sith is the penultimate chapter in this regard. I read the book...Stover did an outstanding job of telling the story...in interviews he commented that it was his intention to write a book that a movie could be based on as opposed to just a "novelization". He wisely focused on the thought processes of the characters...getting in their heads...motivations, feelings...and in that regard the book is excellent. One prime example of that is at the end of chapter 13...as Anakin & Obi-Wan part ways for the last time as friends...this scene was perfect on the page. Going into the movie requires one to switch gears and let the visual storytelling take over. A couple of prime examples of this in "Sith" are....Greivous. One "action" moment that summed up everything you needed to know about that character was when, during the duel with Obi-Wan, after he is "force-pushed" he hits the ground and scurries on all limbs like an insect before he propels himself onto his wheel bike for his escape....constantly running. The character's design looked threatening, but how he moves tells more than any group of lines could. Another moment played up in the book that was truly beautiful onscreen in in the same sequence...Obi-Wan on the boga. No long expositon with talky scenes introducing him to the creature...bonding and all...just a wonderous pull-back with the Boga leaping into the frame and off in pursuit. It was a lyrical moment that was just magic. Another wonderful motif was how as the movie progresses, Coruscant grows dark and cloudy, with deeping shadows that finally culminate in torrential rain as Sidious returns with his broken apprentice. These are just a few examples of "Sith's" biggest strengths...the story told through art. It's really wonderful how all through the SW saga, there have been many scenes like the ones mentioned above that depend more on just letting the visual paint the picture...to tell the story. It's my favorite quality about the saga, both as an artist and a fan...from the early paintings of Ralph McQuarrie to the technical brilliance of Joe Johnston to the sweeping vistas of Doug Chaing to the inticate detailings of Ian McCaig to the stunning granduer of Church & Teimans. I hope as the summer wears on and folks go back again & again to see ROTS that they find themselves drawn in by all the details...not just the actors and the script...I think they'll come away with the feeling that this movie is a total triumph for all involved...not just Lucas and his artists, but for all of us who enjoy visiting that galaxy far, far away....
May 23, 2005, 10:19 p.m. CST
I went back and watched New Hope and Empire Strikes Back the other day...I had a hard time taking Darth Vader seriously after seeing the end of ROTS and realizing that behind that mask it little whinny Anakin. Hearing James Earl Jones' voice asking about Padme and yelling was absolutely horrible! Was it me or was Vader still crispity and smoking when the put him in that suit! I do have to say that in Empire when you see the back of his head while he is in his chamber...its pretty cooll that you know what happened to him and why he is all scarred.
May 23, 2005, 10:31 p.m. CST
Why can't he just call them children? Battlestar Galactica this ain't.
May 23, 2005, 10:34 p.m. CST
Apart from Yoda...no one should be calling the children younglings! It's just creepy.
May 23, 2005, 10:34 p.m. CST
Ah, c'mon. These are the kids Yoda raises. Can't you see that little green frog-man calling his kids "younglings"?
May 23, 2005, 10:35 p.m. CST
'Younglings' always makes me think of "Lord of the Flies". Weren't they young'uns or something?
May 23, 2005, 10:35 p.m. CST
But I agree with BAF, Yoda should be the only person calling the kids younglings.
May 23, 2005, 10:37 p.m. CST
Okay, okay, If it is Yoda, allow it I can. But the other characters--know better they should.
May 23, 2005, 10:45 p.m. CST
By whom...YOU?! I'm growing so weary of Star-Wars-apologist-weenies. It's impossible to reason with people with a mind full of muck. My love for SW was tenfold more than all you fuckers at one time. But I know a train-wreak when see one. Lucas' downward-spiral began way back in '82, and he hit rock bottom in '99. Take Lucas's dick out of your mouth for one second at least, and witness the wreakage all around you. Did his semen taste good?
May 23, 2005, 10:48 p.m. CST
While I did enjoy the last movie, I am starting to think that the first trilogy was better for the viewer when the history was only hinted at. Glimpsing Vader's scarred head in ESB gave one chills. Wasn't it kind of a let down to see Mr. Egghead Vader at the end ROTJ? Search your feelings you know it to be true. Now, I understand that the unmasking of Vader was important to the end of that series, but in a similar way the three prequels are an unmasking of all that we have imagined and why are we so surprised that it did not, could not live up to 30 years of imagining it. Untold, but only hinted at, it was a more powerful story.
May 23, 2005, 10:56 p.m. CST
by Green Arrow
All this gay bashing, etc. is REAL interesting, but did anyone else see the Millenium Falcon, or a very close copy of it in the movie? In the scene where Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Palpatine return to the Senate, in the lower right hand corner of the screen, I swear I saw the Millenium Falcon docking at another bay. Just wondering if it was wishful thinking on my part, or if anyone else saw it too...
May 23, 2005, 10:57 p.m. CST
After that terrible scene with them and Yoda in AOTC, I was kinda hopin they'd all get greased.