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Star Wars Episode III: Revenge Of The Sith Release Day Talkback #1
SPOILER ALERT !!
Hey folks, Harry here... Well - in the next 7-9 hours many of you will be getting your first look at the final episode of the Prequel Trilogy of STAR WARS. Some will love and some will hate... Some will be ecstatic, some will be filled with disappointment. Luckily - I've seen the film a few times now and with the exception of a handful of minor nitpicks - I absolutely love the film. Took my nephew to see it last night. He's a month shy of five. He was totally down with the film, excited by just about everything... but at the point where a certain evil bastard tells a dittohead to double their search efforts for a certain character... My nephew looked at me and his mother and with tears in his eyes he said, "Where'd all the good guys go?" During the key "turning" of the character in question - he was slackjawwed. To him - he had NO IDEA that that character would ever be anything other than a hero - and it shook him to the core. After the film - he had TONS of questions about it all - and we had tons of answers. In front of the theater picking him up - he had an imaginary light saber, making whooshing sounds and chopping through legions of bad guys.
I had DocFalken assemble the STAR WARS PAGE for all of you to enjoy. It basically represents 9 years of AICN's Star Wars Coverage. At the top of the page is a Flash image gallery that you can send photos to via Camera phones and Email that will be posted automatically to the page. Enjoy this, the beginning of this final Prequel STAR WARS weekend - and I hope you have a great experience. Enjoy...
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The compilation of past AICN STAR WARS stories looks like a fun afternoons read tomorrow.
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This is probably as close to FIRST as I'll ever get, but what the hell. Going to see Sith tonight at midnight. Can't wait.
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So I might enjoy this one...
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May 18, 2005 5:32:15 PM CDT
I will not say it i will not say it i will not say it i will not
by filmrage
dddddamn it, dohhhh. Im first.
I don't know when it's comming to Korea but juding by ep 2 I can' lose as based on the beauty of the visual alone it's worth the price of a cinema ticket. and that's about seven bucks here in Korea.
The only thing that can make me not enjoy it will be the awful habits koreans have with cell phones in cinemas. Chekcing messages every few minutes, taking calls, making calls.
I'd go in the early afternoon to get some peace and quiet but for an event flick like this i like to get the packed house effect. -
Doh.
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Hey, this film is getting some amazing reviews. I'm more hopefull than I've been for the past 2, and I have a feeling it will be better than Jedi, and a lot of fun. Thanks George for getting it together.
Peace! -
I was lucky enough to go to the American Idol screening last night and all I want to say is that the movie is good. By that I mean wayyy better than Eps I and II, but sadly the lack of story in the first two prequels makes this film feel a little rushed.
The visuals and the "Fall" are great, but I still just can't believe that he does it. I have to go back tonight and see if he makes the same choice again.
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"Mine. Or I will fuck you not." Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week.
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Star Wars was the first movie I ever saw in a theater. I've loved these characters since before I could talk. This entire experience is like a wake, a funeral and a graduation all in one. Despite its flaws, I'm sad to see it end. That is all.
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...It was genuienly good.
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" You can
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Revenge of the Sith does have its flaws. But as Harry said, they are minor and they do NOT detract from the overall impact of the film. And yes it does have "tearjerker" moments and NOT at the moments you expect. {spoiler} Seeing Obi Wan and Yoda fight side by side, even for a small amount of time was glorious {spoiler}. Much love Star Wars. - A G
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I have my brother waiting in line for the theater entrance number line. Confused? My local theater got an extra print of ROTS in and more midnight tickets are available, so @ 6pm they are handing out "line position" numbers for all the midnight shows. I'm going to go home, watch Lost and then head back to wait for the last Star Wars movie
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May 18, 2005 5:54:27 PM CDT
I think it's a great idea that you're doing these talkbacks Harr
by the heathen
That's all
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It's all over, strike up the band. Prepare for the TV series.
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i actually like them.
maybe its cause im only 17 and my first encounter was the rereleases of the OT, but i prefer the prequel trilogy to the original.
let the flaming begin... -
I can't rant right now, as I am too upset by this movie, but I just have to say that these prequels make me embarassed to be a Star Wars fan. Thanks Lucas. The Clone Wars cartoons have shown how to deal with the licence properly, let's hope this new live action series wil do the same.
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...will travel. The local paper has a full front page story in color. We are now officially at the peak of the "Star Wars Media Blitz". AYE CARUMBA!!
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May 18, 2005 6:03:04 PM CDT
i heard that the terrorists are going to strike SW showings all
by hypeendshere
and like Bill O'Reilly, I'm going to back that claim up with nothing. good-day!
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And everyone of them is sold out!
I was told they had sold over 1800 tickets as of yesterday. I'll be heading up to get in line after Smallville, with my PSP in hand, loaded up with Clone Wars. -
...away fanboys. Thank GOD it's the last one! It was enough 20 years ago. Now please die.
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http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/the_honeymooners/index.html
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Well saw ROTS at a midnight screening last night along with the rest of Sydney and it was pretty fucking awesome. It was very much approved from the last two prequels and though Hayden's acting is still not the greatest, I have to admit, I felt for him by the time that mask is put on his way. His choices are generally well intentioned but he's not match for Palpatine's manipulation. Best scene in the film, the final one between Obiwan and Anakin, its enough to bring a saddened tear to your eye knowing this is how it ends. I mean we all knew that but seeing it Obiwan's face was really heartbreaking. And a beautiful ending shot reminescent of New Hope, ended the movie on a high note. Perhaps not the greatest film ever made but it was still a good one.
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and am seeing it again tomorrow. this movie OWNS. ENJOY BITCHES.
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Hackers = awful
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May 18, 2005 6:24:32 PM CDT
I watched TPM last Night and have just finished watching AOTC, I
by john-locke
I'm ready baby.
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and it sucked ass. no joking. my spoiler free review (as an OT loyalist):bad script+bad acting+bad casting (mace)+wasted effects(droid humor)=bad movie. I'm not a hater, its simple not a good movie. period.
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May 18, 2005 6:29:18 PM CDT
Reading back over all those old AICN stories before Phantom Mena
by inspectordoppler
was kind of like looking at happy wedding pictures from an abusive failed marriage. (But ROTS is indeed good.)
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I'm not trying to rain on anyones parade here, i just need to vent. My expectations were set to 'medium' level, and they weren't close to being met. I cna't wait until tomorrow to read what some other fans think...
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...on Georgie's neck is filled with? OUR FUCKING MONEY (... and yes, our raped childhoods).
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May 18, 2005 6:37:25 PM CDT
IMO, the fact that Harry and a 5 year old loved the movie means
by performingmonkey
Actually, I feel that the only way I would have been blown away by ROTS is if I didn't know Anakin became Vader and Palpatine is the puppetmaster. Sure, his turn might be shocking if you're 5 and you don't know Anakin joins the Dark Side, but in my eyes it was weak. I just wanted to scream at Lucas 'George! We've always known Anakin becomes Vader so you could have at least made his turn a little more convincing and interesting to give us more value for money!!' You can argue that the turn began as soon as Qui-Gon took Anakin away from his mother in TPM, and that it took a major leap forward with the slaughtering of the Tuskens in AOTC. However, if those movies had been better, and Anakin's character actually refined rather than being some 2D whiner, the whole thing would have worked. I wish George had been able to see what his mistakes were and rectified them in AOTC before it was too late. Anyway, I'm expecting a lot of positive reviews of ROTS at first, but after people have got past the second-to-none visuals they'll realise, like TPM & AOTC, it doesn't stand up to repeat viewings very well. AOTC wasn't what I wanted, and much of ROTS isn't what I wanted, but I was happy because I'd just seen a new SW movie - a stunning visual and sonic feast. When I first saw AOTC on DVD it really hit me how pathetic the dialogue, acting and characterizations were. You can include as many CG droids, clones and explosions as you want, and have Yoda doing as many CG flips as you want, but nothing can save a shit script and shit direction. I'm sure ROTS will be an easier experience on repeat viewings, but I'll never feel it's what it could have been.
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May 18, 2005 6:42:08 PM CDT
Have my tix, just about to check out the line for seating in a b
by big bad clone
If I have to choke a few geeks to get my favorite seat, all the better. This'll be the first time I'm able to go out to a midnight movie since my kids were bvorn, so, in the words of Darth Vader, Yippppeee.
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May 18, 2005 6:49:33 PM CDT
Am I the only person aged 25-35 for whom "Star Wars" WASN'T the
by charles grady
I like the films as much as the next guy, but I'm 32 years old and they're not THE films that defined my cinematic taste. But nearly everyone of my generation remembers SW as the first film they saw in theatres, or their favorite film from when they were a child. I was 4 when ANH came out, but didn't even see it -- or EMPIRE -- until they were re-released in 1982/83. And by that time, I had discovered JAWS, James Bond, Snake Plissken, HALLOWEEN, FIRST BLOOD, ANIMAL HOUSE, Clint Eastwood, THE FOG, SUPERMAN...hell, even fucking NIGHTHAWKS seems like more of a formative childhood experience to me than the STAR WARS films do. I'm not saying this to deride the series, but does anyone else share my vantage point of SW actually NOT being THE films that defined their childhood and subsequent cinematic tastes? DEKE DA SILVA is a WAY cooler name than fucking gay-ass "Luke Skywalker" anyway.
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May 18, 2005 6:58:17 PM CDT
By the way, it's impossible to have "waited 28 years for this mo
by charles grady
No matter what Lucas may have claimed then or claims now, there was no way in 1977 or in 1983 to psychically divine the release years, or even the EXISTENCE, of these movies. Besides, was anyone REALLY thinking about STAR WARS when it was, say, 1986? Most people I know, even FANS of the series, didn't give the films a second thought between, say, 1985 and 1997, so I seriously doubt anyone was checking off a calendar back then until the May 2005 release of a THIRD prequel no one could have seen coming. Christ, I didn't think ANYONE even watched a STAR WARS film for most of the late 80s/early to mid 90s.
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This movie will PWN EVERYONE!!! FUCK THE HATERS!! That said, I am done here, goodbye.
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any posts from now onward please end your entry with the one you prefer:episode 1 or episode 2...
p.s. episode 2 is better than episode 1. -
Pun intended?
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Downloading screener right now...
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Padme is pregnant but has no tits.
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Raiders of the Lost Ark was the defining movie of my childhood. It is the first movie I can actually remember sitting in the theater seeing.
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well i sit just 5 hours from the ending of an era, from my giant r2d2 cake for my 6th birthday, to my mom checking me out of school to see jedi on its release day.. to forwarding to college and catching the midnight show of menace, i know this means little to most of you but hey i guess after tonight it feels kinda like leaving neverland
so heres to hoping the last is great -
I saw it on VHS in 9th grade math class on the last day of school. I had no idea what I was seeing.
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oh yeah and i was one month and three days old when my parents took me to starwars on its premier
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That's a fake file. Wait until tomorrow until the real thing comes out.
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and you feel like you were "raped" by lucas, you shoulda spent a little more time playing outdoors instead of living vicariously through 6+ hours of film. Ya, they're good flicks, but my hell, that's all they are. Do me a favor, open your door, look outside, and maybe, just maybe enjoy what's out there. Quit blaming lucas for ruining your life. It's your own fucking fault.
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you can have a looksee at the sample: http://www.g082.green.fastwebserver.de/sith.00.avi
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I originally thought I'd never buy, let alone watch TPM ever in my life. It's grown on me and it's now acceptable, but still a movie I have to be in "the mood" for. I just thinl Jar Jar had the greatest potential out of any character. He could have been the prequal Han Solo. Bad Ass rogue, expelled from home civilization b/c his political beliefs are too progressive for an uncivilized culture. Granted, a bad ass politician doesn't sound too enticing, but it's the attitude and power displays that counts. This would also lead to a nice arc of why he was the one that voted to give Palpatine emergency powers, and perhaps a resonating guilt leading to his dramatic sacrifice for his friends (obi-wan and anikan) in epIII. Afterall, friendship was one theme the prequals desperately needed, and with that that ability to relate our lives to the characters.
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You sad little people who only have your expression of your hatred for Star Wars to keep you going. Are all you sad losers going to shrivel up and blow away now that it is over? Or will you transfer your pathetic attempts over to another franchise? Trolls.
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...but honestly, come on, the prequels really are terrible.
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May 18, 2005 7:35:07 PM CDT
llac5, I did indeed see it last night, but I'm not 'saying anyth
by so sorry
specific 'cause I don't want to spoil anything for the rest. And by the way, you said it was great and you said nothing of importance either, so suck it. And a big fuck you to philbert for telling me that my opinion of a movie I SAWis irrelevant because I didn't like it.
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as others have recently said (just agreeing, is all...)
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TPM was a flaming turd, all sparkle, no substance. AOTC was a fetid stinking pile, but was leaning in the right direction. ROTS will probably be all right, but nowhere near the perfection that the trollish talk-back fucksticks expect. But it will be good.
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Your opinion is your opinion. I give two shits about it. Feel free to move on if you hate it.
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DARTH VADER and the NEW WORLD ORDER:
The Star Wars story has had, without a question, the greatest impact on popular culture of any movie in world history. We will now explore why it has resonated so strongly with so many people across generations.
At last, the mainstream media is picking up on something we've been talking about for years. The plot lines of George Lucas' six Star Wars films mirror, in many respects, the activities of western governments. [...]
http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/darth_nwo.htm
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Tomorrow, play "Scarface" for your three year old niece.
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Not that it matters much since most of us are seeing it really soon, but the Vader image labeled "Armani of Evil" has a screenshot from the film in the background. And it's a pretty big spoiler!
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padme dies, but in rotj leia talks about her memories of her mother. she says she was beautiful, but sad and died young. this was not meant to be a discription of mrs. bail organa. padme dies in childbirth though, how could leia have ever know her. big fuck up. i will let it be though cause this film rocked and obi wan is the greatest jedi of all time.
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i'm a flaming hater for hates sake, yet you think TPM is a flaming turd and AOTC was as bad. Way to back up your original post. Unfortunately for me, I did give two shits about the star wars movies, and all i got was this ROTS shit. And enough Jar Jar with your rediculous Bush rantings. At least post something new instead of the same cpoy/paste statement in every SW talkback.
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May 18, 2005 7:48:19 PM CDT
This is supposed to be a Talkback from people who have seen the
by i dunno
Not a sounding board for the same old shit all Star Wars haters spew in every TB, SW related or not. Give it a rest already. And why do fans of a certain movie have to be characterized as nerds who live in their parents' basement? I've been a huge SW fan my whole life and I do not fit in that category, neither do my friends. So anyway, screw you all. I got to see it midnight last night and it's better than the critics say. I've been thinking about this chapter since I was a kid and intended on being hyper critical of it but it exceeded all my expectations. I won't bother talking about the FX because they obviously rule but the thing also had a story and a good one. Palpatine's rise to power, Anakin's motivations behind turning, and his relationship with Obi Wan were all handled superbly. The movie's definitly dark though. There are some scenes with kids and Vader's immolation is pretty intense. So anyway, I thought it was awesome. For those who saw it and didn't like it, you're entitled to your opinion but I really don't know what you expected. For those haters who haven't seen it yet, you can eat my ass.
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It's not a plot hole, Lucas addressed it.
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and well i thought some of it was ok, some stuff was dope and some was atrocious.
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It's pretty good, with more hits than misses. There's four INCREDIBLE sequences and three of the top of my head that were face-hiding awful. All in all, it was the best of the prequels and speaking as someone who absolutely loathes "Phantom" and "Clones", it won Lucas a little of my goodwill back.
It's not a "GREAT" film, but it's a good film. -
ok i can live with that i guess. thanks for the clarification though, it was doing a mind job on me how something that big could be overlooked.
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my problem with the movie is that it didn't seem dark at all. The jedi's ignorance (by ignoring Anakin despite his obvious turmoil), especially Mace, struck me as sad and pathetic, and a little impossible (aren't they supposed to sense these things??). not dark. I thought the movie as a whole had way to many 'humerous' moments. Wait, there wasn't a question in there at all. sorry bout that.
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First of all, I absolutely loved the movie. Yes, there was some terrible dialogue between Padme and Anakin, but the action was unbelivable and the transformation rocked my world! Yoda ruled. Ewan ruled! Hayden ruled!
**AFTER PADME HAD THE TWINS, WHY DID SHE STILL LOOK PREGNANT IN THE CASKET? THEY EVEN DID A CLOSE UP. -
What's wrong with it?
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I beleive that they made her look pregnant at her burial so that Vader wouldn't know the baby (he never knew of tins) was born.
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Luke asked Leia if she ever knew her mother. She responded in the only way she ever knew how: the queen of Alderaan. That
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i'd say more than some of the dialogue between them was terrible and ante up it by saying um....well most of it was terrible. and mace windu just seemed to be a waste of character....he's supposed to be the best fighter for the jedi and he did beat palpatine but i don't like how he went out. ewan did rule....and i think they made her look pregnant so darth vader knows she died with the children. and r2d2 had the best dialogue.
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Forgot to add ...figured people on here have seen it. Either way, still doesn't make any sense.
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May 18, 2005 8:14:23 PM CDT
RE:AFTER PADME HAD THE TWINS, WHY DID SHE STILL LOOK PREGNANT IN
by elpaw
so that everyone including DV and the Emperor would believe that the children had died with her.
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I think that Palp let Mace beat him up in order to have anakin 'rescue' him, thus turning him to the dark side. Not handled well, unfortunately (like the rest of the movie)
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Fact.
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May 18, 2005 8:23:53 PM CDT
Anybody else had it up to HERE with the merchandising shit?
by hanfiredfirst
Burger King .... Cingular .... cripes.
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May 18, 2005 8:28:49 PM CDT
tardy, my last year's-worth of income came from working on SW me
by so sorry
so I can't hate on it too much, but it seemed to be an all time high. and those BK commercials bugged the shit out of me.
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Anyone else surprised there isn't a long ass tribute to Frank Gorshin on this site yet?
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i thought that palp might of let mace take him too, but then again i have not seen any jedi use only his lightsaber to repel the lighting from a sith, so i'd like to believe that some of it was genuine, he did best him with the saber. and alot was handled well for sure.
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May 18, 2005 8:32:45 PM CDT
Even the 3:30 AM show is sold out! Good gawd who can stay awake
by truthseekr1488
Arclight Cinerama times for tomorrow: 12:01 AM SOLD OUT 12:05 AM SOLD OUT 12:05 AM SOLD OUT 12:15 AM SOLD OUT 12:20 AM SOLD OUT 3:30 AM SOLD OUT
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Unlike all you lucky SOBs I live in Japan and I have to wait next frickin month to see Star Wars EP3! You bastards and your update releases and fancy cars...
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wallow away -- one last time
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Inspired casting.
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May 18, 2005 8:38:37 PM CDT
Why do they create these threads when you know what will happen,
by orionsangels
Okay now someone respond with the reasons you hate the prequels, okay bad acting, jar jar blah blah.
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It was sad and pathetic, especially when Yoda got his ass kicked. As for sensing it, they said from the beginning of the prequels that the Dark side clouds their vision, they can't see shit. That's Palptine's power, he can be right under their nose without them knowing. As for Padme looking pregnant, they didn't make it crystal clear in the film but in the book they said that they had to make her appear preggers so that everyone thinks the kids are dead.
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So I wrote a song about it. Enjoy!
http://www.hotwafflesmusic.com/georgelucasrapedourchildhood.mp3 -
An exercise in pure ego. Like buring a $100. Because he can and you can't. It's Lucas' "Fuck You" to us all.
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May 18, 2005 8:42:36 PM CDT
Harry just show your nephew Episodes 4,5 & 6. So he can see thin
by orionsangels
And hey Harry, i'm glad you're alive. After what was being said yesterday. I was imaging you gone and all i could think of was, at least he got to see ROTS, but i'm glad you're ok Harry.
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He doesn't even have any lines in the film. Let it go.
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Jedi Knights are a bunch of eunichs.
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It's all been said, now kneel before STAR WARS and accept it, you whiney little bitches!
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That's "eunuchs," not "eunichs." And the Enterprise picks up Klingons around Uranus, just like Charmin.
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From Harry's Episode 1 review:
"Jar Jar was more evil and scary to me than Jaws, Linda Blair, that evil clown doll from Poltergeist, the carpet from THE SHINING and all of THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT. Jar Jar began representing the Otis (from Superman) of this new Star Wars film.
But.... Guess what?
Mesa Luved Him!"
You should never have resurrected those reviews...
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mr. kenobi should of actually took padme for himself. she needs a real man. he should of bitchslapped anakin and run off with padme to some god forsaken planet......perhaps where ever mace is from.
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that anakin was crying out for their help and guidance. they discussed the issue of him being the chosen one, but did nothing about it. they cared more about saving a planet of mushroom people than the potential savior of the force. badly handled, in my opinion.
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Good story, Harry. I've never actually thought of it that way, even though I have two nephews of my own, both are 7. I wonder how they are gonna react.
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Absolutely right, my friend. And Eastwood in "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" can kick Anakin's ass. Long Live Clint!
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That thought about the Council not giving Anikin his due attention when he badly needs it has been niggling on the back of my mind for quite a while. He's the Chosen One isn't he? I'm watching it tomorrow 1300GMT. Maybe it'll make more sense when I see it. I wouldn't claim to be a HUGE Star Wars fan by any stretch. I don't even have them on DVD. I'm more a HUGE fan of that OTHER epic. With that said, I have enjoyed the movies since I was a child, I am familiar with a lot of the Star Wars trivia. I'm looking forward to seeing it. From what I'm hearing, it should be good.
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May 18, 2005 9:13:37 PM CDT
I will be seeing this also; I just don't get the whole rush to s
by johnnytremaine
I mean, Star Wars and every other upcoming summer wanna-be-blockbuster will be playing in multiplexes for pretty much the next few months. What's the rush? (Not to mention the probable 6 month theater to DVD window.) For myself, I think I'll just pick a quiet, rainy, weekend afternoon to go see it.
Yikes! I think I uttered heresy in film-geek land. -
Well, it's been ten years for me, since I read about Lucas writing the new trilogy in the paper when I was nine. Anyway, I'd like to extend my thanks to you, Harry, for having been our voice online for years, the older brother who showed you all the shwag you wanted to see but couldn't see any other way. Thanks for all the info, no matter how seemingly pointless, about these movies. They are our myths, to quote Joseph Campbell in "The Power of Myth" TV series, and you have been like the crier alerting the masses before the minstrel band comes to town. Thanks man, and may the Force be with you, always.
GEEK NATION! -
first at the star wars marathon, then twice more since as test runs (im a projectionist). NONE of you need to worry, this new film is fantastic, and thats coming from someone who pretty much hates eps 1 and 2...
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Which is why Yoda is brought down a few notches. They didn't know how to handle Anakin, never did. He had emotions, attachments, they didn't understand any of that. Palpatine did though and that made him the only one Anakin could relate to and made it easier to turn him. It's a flaw in the Jedi order though, not in the story. In fact, it's the point of the story.
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Yes, let's have the characters SAY when they're turning to the dark side instead of actually showing any plausible part of the journey.
There was so much talk, talk, talk that Lucas didnt know what to have his characters do but pace around each other constantly. Every time we entered a "talking" scene it wasnt as if we had come into the middle of a discussion but as if the characters had been just standing around waiting silently.
Lucas succeeded in cramming his shots to the brim with his CG fantasies but all it did was make for some messy shots that were too busy to focus on what was most important: the characters. The fight scenes were totally uninspired and all the "big moments" (the ones we knew had to happen for IV V VI) were a massive let down. Vader's big moment in the suit was totally ruined by a ridiculously pussy yelp, while The Emperor seems to have become the comic relief, laughing and cackling his way at everything like Mutley on crack. Thanks to this his presence in the next three have been tarnished for me.
As fot the rest - it seems The rest just seemed like filler. Wookies? Not needed at all. Grevious? Waste of time. Padme? Surely she could have done something else than just sit on a couch waiting for her hubbie to return. But the biggest dissapointment was of course Anakin. It should have been a slow turn to the dark side; corrupted over time by his power and the offer of more. Instead thanks to the pointlessness of Episode 1 and making him nothing but a petulant teen in Episode 2 Lucas was left with no time to develop such a thing and made it all come down to a single decision. And when that decision is based on something done so unbelievable (Padme and Anakin's relationship - has Lucas EVER actally TALKED to a woman before in his life???) the result is this pitiful excuse for that Star Wars once was. -
Hi. I was wondering how fellow star wars fans feel. If you could go into a time machine would you want the prequels made or not made?
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it just didn't come across that well to me. anakin's "turning" was so quick and unemotional. to each his own! now how about the rediculous droid humor???
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i thought it was handled too quick and it lack any real weight for me. and droid humor is better than jar jar humor....oh wait.....jar jar is a serious character, my apologies to mr. binks and his family.
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I cannot talk about his movie without spoilers. Also can't fully judge it til I see it again tonight coz the whole saga back to back with 1300 other insane SW geeks was just awesome. And I shook Lucas's hand at the end, which kinda geeked me out (although not as much as seeing David Lynch at Cannes a few years back)
Anyway, I digress...
Somethine sits really awkwardly about Anakin's turn. The fact he's aware Palpatine's the Sith and he's just grassed him to Mace only to then, a couple of minutes later, switch totally and become uber-badass does seem very jarring. I can see completely how Lucas has set this up, from leaving his mother in 1 to the dreams in 2, but somehow it still didn't sit right, especially when you think about who we see Vader as.
But it ocurred to me this evening, after a couple of smokes, that the Vader we are told about by Obi-Wan in ANH is the Vader he saw. He ain't around when Anakin makes his decision to turn to the dark side. All he knows is of Anakin's loyalty to Palpatine and that he killed the younglings. Anakin's actualy motivations (which do have a twisted honour to them) are unknown to Obi-Wan, therefore we've always seen Vader solely as a monster. But now, when we see the OT, Vader will have developed into a different character.
Anakin has already alluded to his belief in peace via dictatorship, and it's peace he believes he's bought ot the galaxy at the end. And therefore peace he believes he's maintaining in the OT. he believes that he's doing right. Obi-Wan cannot see the good in Vader as he believes Anakin turned for power (which he does, but not the power Obi-Wan seems to think) and glory. He doesn't understand the heartache Anakin has to go thru in making his decision and the subsequence despair when he learns he killed Padme (without doubt the one truly awful moment in EpIII, Vader's anguished "No!!!").
So it should make Vader a more tragic character than the monster he is at first. And you can now clearly understand his decision to save Luke at the end of Jedi.
So, Anakin's turn does work and really well, yet somehow still sits really awkwardly. It's a strange cookie.
On the rest of the movie...
All the R2 stuff at the start is utterly ludicrous and wrong (even more so than the flying in EpII), yet it's R2 being so utter awesome I went with it much easier. It's basically utterly ace, just completely wrong. But my theory that R2's the supreme being still holds true as he doesn't have his memory wiped at the end.
The level of darkness is great. Dooku's death is wonderfully cold and brutal. I'm so glad Lucas dealt with the younglings. And I was worried that the 12a certificate was going to dampen the physical fuckedupness that Anakin had to endure, but man... he get's fucked up good and proper. I believe you'd need the Vader suit to survive after that.
I loved how utterly unimportant Wookies and general grievous really were. Couldn't see the point in Wookies being there. Still can't, but at least they were basically just a cameo. Grievous I was worried seemed just a blatant attempt to sell gimmicky toys, but was basically Palpatine's gimmicky toy too and didn't survive too long.
Man, talk about rambling.
Overall it's pretty neat, but a little too fast paced at times. But all the coolness boxes are checked and McGregor and McDairmid are both great. And I can't remember seeing Jar Jar at all. And I know I loved it on Monday night, but I'd have loved anything then. The whole day was utterly special for any Star Wars nut. And agonising pain for anyone else! -
Is that there wasn't a lot of it. Actually, I thought the scenes with R2 were cool. As for the scenes with Grevious and the wookies being a "waste of time", I guess that means that they didn't directly relate to the main story. not sure how to respond to that. Most of Empire and the first 30 minutes of Jedi didn't relate directly to Luke and Vader, that doesn't mean they weren't great scenes. Besides, the wookie scene was all of 5 mintutes.
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Why would he do that when he knows Padme is pregnant? And he was so HAPPY! And Anakin and Obi-wan go from best friends to mortal enemies in minutes. And are we supposed to forgive him for child murder?! It all comes down to one thing we always suspected - Lucas made it up as he went along. Episodes 1 & 2 have virtually no bearing on what happens in ROTS. And the whole thing was too darn rushed. Grievous should have been in AOTC, he's pointless filler here. Ahhhh, so much potential. And we end up with one good but frustrating film and 2 redundant toy commercials.
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He was pretty much turned to begin with. Coming off of AOTC he's already mentally unstable, he's a mass murderer, he already broke the Jedi code by marrying Padme, he believes everyone's jealous of him and he has more pwer than he knows how to handle nad wants more. There's not a whole lot Palpatine has to do to nudge him over to the Dark side. Throw in a promise to save Padme's life and convince him that the Jedi, who he never really liked anyway, are traitors and there you have it, instant Sith Lord. Made sense to me.
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He wants to rule the galaxy with her so they don't have to keep any more secrets. And yeah, they become enemies quickly but Obi Wan isn't happy about it. But after seeing Vader kill all those Jedi there's no other alternative. As for pointless filler, again, why can't there just be some cool action scenes that don't directly have to do with the central theme? That's like half of the OT.
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Anakin's turn makes perfect sense, it's real good. It's set up thru the first two and, due to the way it's played, will have a bearing on the emotion of scenes in the OT...
Yet it still somehow doesn't sit right. Although I need to see it again without 1300 screaming geeks drowning out occasional dialogue!
I think it's the fact he know Palpatine's the bad guy before he goes back that sits awkward really. Had he walked in and not known that his belief that the Jedi were trying to take over would be more solid.
As it is it's played very vaguely and requires a little too much thought for the emotion to have enough impact. -
I was refering to the battle droids inspecting anakin's fighter (like they were a couple of bums looking to loot the thing) and how they talked (don't ask me to quote), and you can't forgive the man (lucas) for allowing R2 to fly in two movies and not the next three. And the wookies didn't relate to the main story, which is why they were not necessary. what was unnecessary about 'most of empire'? and the first 30 minutes of jedi directly related to the story of Luke's devotion to his friends (rescuing han) blah blah blah. speaking of what should have been left on the cutting room floor, those retarded bug droids in the beginning, the crash landing of a freakin' star destroyer, grevious coughing, oh god I could go on. I'm going to bed...
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How come he listens to Palpatine's shit but not Yoda? "Rule the galaxy"? Come on! He kills Mace, regrets it, then decides to kill everybody else, even children and Obi-wan, despite his years of Jedi life and friendship? So essentially Anakin was just evil through and through? Greedy, insane, deceitful? Thats something for Luke to be proud of! And the filler stuff was good, it just belonged in the other prequels (they need something in them) while ROTS devoted much need time to making the central story convincing.
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Not really. All Obi-Wan knows is that Anakin's turned to the dark side, betrayed the jedi, murdered the children and then he sees Anakin almost kill his wife and mother of his children in front of his eyes.
And still Obi-Wan's trying to turn Anakin back until the final moment when he realises he's got to stop him. -
Anakin's told he's the chosen one, the most powerful Jedi who can bring balance to the Force, yet the Jedi completely shit on him from day one. Palpatine, on the other hand, is constantly supportive of Anakin thru 2 and 3. Who would you side with when push came to shove, those that showed you respect or those that didn't?
Do they send Anakin to kill Grievous as he asks? No! When he suggests he go they don't trust him (or Palpatine) and send Obi-Wan. Had they shown faith Anakin would've gone with Obi-Wan, they'd have killed Grievous together and Palaptine would never have had the chance to finally tempt Anakin. His apprentice wouldn't have materialised. He'd have lost power and the OT would never have happened. -
They should have been best friends in AOTC, and drifted apart. But they bicker and hate each other in AOTC and then become chummy in ROTS. So the turn is much more jarring, as if Anakin started out bad, went good, then suddenly became bad again. And I must point out I thought Ewan was awesome in this film. But the whole thing was too rushed, because Lucas wasted time in AOTC on droid factory sequences, instead of creating a believable dynamic between these characters.
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See you in hell crotch gobblers! After tomorrow your influence or better yet lack of in my opinon of Star Wars will no longer hold any relevance in anyones life. Star Wars still owns, spite all of the flaming by those who have nothing better to do. Buncha' fucking cockmasters. Except for Harry who I pity for having misfortune of being perpetually stuck with the lot of you worthless amoebas.
-Az -
It was a worry I had about Clone Wars that it'd add too much to Sith. It's there that the relationship's seen developing into friendship. It's also where we see grievous get his chest crushed by Mace, hence the coughing and spluttering someone mentioned above.
Thing is... between ALL the movies the characters relationships developed between movies. One of the main reasons I believe the Empire love story is better than the Clones one is that they're relationship at the start has clearly developed form ANH. The chemistry's already there. You may cite the shite dialogue, but some on... "I like nice men" "I am a nice man" ain't a great deal better than "everything here's so soft... and smooth".
And there clearly is a friendship bond in Clones (the banter in the elevator as their introduced, the speeder chase banter, "good job"), it's just Anakin's a whiny arrogant teenager (behaving like almost all over privileged teenagers who think they're special do) who argues with his "father". Didn't you?
But yes, the Droid Factory sequence was bollocks. -
Have just got back from the midnight showing of the film. I was struck by the evolution of the acting skills of Haydn Christensen. You can see now why he was chosen for the role. Ian McDirmid deserves an oscar - once the academy has created the category of Best Pantomime Villain. Such a shame there was no other storey other than the interplay between the emperor and Vader. there was Zero character development for anyone outside the duo of doom ;
It is nice that the only dialogue to speak of during the fight scenes sounds like a cross between a biggles comic, and Batman the TV series sounds effects being read out loud... it makes it accessible for little kids. But unfortunately the majority of the audience were at least 25 years old, and put away childish things some time ago.
That this film is slightly better than the other two prequels is scant consolation. This is still another turkey waiting to happen.
It is good that some of the gaps are filled in to help make sense of the original trilogy, but frankly the end result is a poorly concealed, disjointed TV trailer for the computer games, toys, and the inevitable re-re-re-release of the original trilogy available in all good stores thi Xmas.
This film could have been saved had it been edited by anyone other than Lucas. The dialogue may not have been so laughable had it been written by anone other than Lucas.
Unfortunately Lucas has grown so powerful he does not have any peers to cut him down to size. The key ingredient that would have saved the day would have been one voice to break out and say "You can think this shit, but you sure can't write it ... speak it ... pack it up and mass market it".
Unfortunately they didn't, and he did. All together now... "Noooooooooooo!" ..... "You're breaking my heart!" -
May 18, 2005 10:53:42 PM CDT
"AFTER PADME HAD THE TWINS, WHY DID SHE STILL LOOK PREGNANT IN T
by voice o. reason
So no one would know she actually already had her kids.
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May 18, 2005 10:56:16 PM CDT
"What do you remember of your mother?, Your REAL mother"
by theallseeingeye
That was the question so the idea she was describing her adoptive mother means she's either fucking stupid or didn't have a clue. It's a plothole in a movie that's full of them but we just have to accept it; i've given up on complaining..they'll never be fixed so why waste your breath. Anyways, I've just got back from a screening of Sith and i'm knackered..didn't expect the movie to be as long. I think it's better than the other two prequels although that wouldn't be hard. Anakin and Padmes dialogue was awful in some places and i thought Anakins transition to the dark side was a little too quick; i'd have prefered to have seen the change come over him slowly. It's also a shame that George couldn't bring himself to write a script where the good character turns evil simply out of pure seduction; ROTS see's Anakin turn into Vader in the belief that he can save his wife - i thought a slow seduction simply for the power would have been a better way to bring it across. But that said I did find the movie entertaining and it was nice to see the scene with vader being put together and to see the blockade runners corridors again after all these years; i think i grinned like mad seeing that.
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The only plot holes are questions that you didn't bother to put any thought into.
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Its the other prequels that piss me off, and the fact that their shortcomings affect this film. And I liked Clone Wars, which ROTS emulated very well. But as a trilogy, its been a failure really. At least the good one was the last one, so now I can watch Eps 3-6 without a crappy film!
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May 18, 2005 11:14:39 PM CDT
"IF I POST A HUGE SPOILER IN A SUBJECT LINE, AM I A TOTAL ASSHOL
by hanfiredfirst
Yep.
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May 18, 2005 11:23:27 PM CDT
Tomatometer shows 83% fresh with 123 reviews, BUT ....
by truthseekr1488
If you look at the quotes they use from reviewers some of the reviews considered "fresh" do have some criticisms of the flick which makes you wonder about their rating system. For instance, all of the following quotes were from reviews categorized as "fresh" (positive): "A flawed masterpiece" -- "the movie itself doesn't fully deliver" -- "ROTS ... should have salvaged the prequels; it doesn't." -- "not the classic it could have been" -- "the best part about it is that we are finally done with the journey" -- "scores a technical knockout rather than the real thing."
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We'll see if it's recognized come oscar time.
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May 18, 2005 11:31:51 PM CDT
You haters just can't let this movie just be sucessful and can't
by i dunno
If the movie was panned by critics you'd be wiping the jizz off your keyboard so you can relish it on every movie website you can find. Now that the critics like it, you have to question the critics themselves and hunt for whatever negative comments they did make. Why is it so important to some of you that this film fail? Meh, who gives a shit, rip on it all you like, get as much pleasure out of negativity for the sake of being negative all you want. I thought it was awesome and a lot of other people did too. No cheap shots at Lucas or desperate attempts to dismiss the positive reviews will change that.
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he can move on and make those "Indie" films he keeps talking about...
Oh yeah, he is reworking all 6 films in 3D. Lucky us... we get 2 great films, 1 nice movie, and 3 steaming turds to appreciate in a whole new perspective.
If Lucas has learned anything, I hope it's to hand the upcoming live-action TV show over to a qualified director and writers the way he did with the Clone Wars on Cartoon Network. Those are pound for pound far superior to the last 2 films. -
Were you dragged to the theater and mugged out of $8.00 and forced to watch the movies, Clockwork Orange style? Some of the comments on this site are so infantile I'm embarassed to reply to them.
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I haven't seen the movie yet, even though it's been playing for 14hours here already... but in regards to Padme's belly at her funeral... Hasn't anyone else's girlfriend or wife had a baby in this talkback? the "preggers belly" doesn't just go away as soon as the baby is pushed out, it takes time... my g/f and I had our first one last year and she is a skinny-mini, but she had a big belly for a couple of weeks after the birth... it takes a little while for the swelling, the fluids, the stretching etc. all to go back the way it was.... admittedly my g/f's belly didn't look EXACTLY like it did when she was pregnant but it looks alot different normally.. Unfortunately for Padme in the film, maybe she had the belly because she didn't have enough time to get the gallons of water a day and the windsor pilates tape into her before she died.. this could be why she looked pregnant still and it may not have involved some massive conspiracy to hide the twins from the bad-guys at all..
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I saw STAR WARS when I was 7 in 1977. Love the first 3. Amazing in so many ways. I even love ROTJ because it's just not nearly as crappy as TPM.
TPM was a kick in the balls.
AOTC was the dull pain you feel after you get kicked in the balls.
ROTS I hope will be the relief that your balls no longer hurt.
Haters are just Fans that deservedly feel they got screwed.
Go back and read Harry's TPM review if you wan to laugh and cry at the same time. It's painful... -
It ranks up there with ROTJ and ANH. Finally a prequel worthy of the Star Wars name. I'm really happy for the Star Wars fans. They've endured so much over the past few years.
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and had his way with me in the stall....
He took something we all loved and smothered it with his ego. He should have gotten a real director for a start. -
Is there anyone here with the power to get Harry to stop including his Nephew in his reviews? Anyone?
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Now in real life would the heat from the lava make the air above it lethal, hence impossible to survive in the vicinity of it? Just wondering ...
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Anakin burns up lying next to the lava, he's about a metre away. Pretty gruesome.
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Fuck it, I liked it. And the ride's been good.
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May 18, 2005 11:59:39 PM CDT
Revenge of the Sith midnight screening at Fox Studios, Sydney
by rastar
As I arrived at 6pm to join the queue outside the Hoyts theatre in the Fox Studios complex, I was pleased to see about a dozen people in costume, waiting excitedly. Ithin an hour, the number of costumes had tripled, but by 10pm, there were hundreds of people dressed in Jedi robes, various kinds of Trooper costumes and lightsabers everywhere...
The film was very impressive and I left feeling satisfied, but also exhausted. I was sad, but fulfilled by the resolution of the story. I was enthralled by the final hour of the film, from Anakin's turn, to the birth of the twins and the birth of Darth Vader - the ultimate moment in the film for me.
I will return in a few days to see it projected digitally, but that will be too long to wait!
Thanks, George Lucas and the Aussies (some of whom I worked with on another film down here) - you all deserve to be applauded. -
just watched it
bad
very bad
no pacing
no jar jar (so people dont like him, way to go george you stuck to your guns on your creative vision there)
blurry too fast to fighting
is this movie designed to be in 3D????
i'm a goody, now im bad, now i want to be the ruler of the universe!!! whoa slow down anniy stick to one idea for five minutes at least
did this movie have a script
what was the point of shoe horning in the wookiees, grand moff tarkin, captin antilles, mon mothama, blockade runner, etc,etc
this movie made my head hurt it was like a data burst of six hours of good intentions
i went straigth to a pub to smoke and drink after this tmovie to calm down
WHERE WAS THE PACING!!!!!!!!!!!! -
May 19, 2005 12:29:20 AM CDT
TURNS OUT EP3 ROCKS --- HATERS WEEPING OPENLY IN THE STREETS!!!!
by captain_sulu
star wars film marathon at 11...
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Boy did Lucas F up this trilogy.
Midiclorians? Unforgivable! -
Read the last paragraph of Roger Ebert's review if you can't grasp the obvious.
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As someone who was 12 when I first saw the original, I can't even start to list the things that changed for me that first startling night I saw STAR WARS. The sights - the sounds - the awesome music - it was a package unlike any other film of the time. One of the things I'm grateful to Lucas for is for introducing me to the amazing work of John Williams, and many other great composers who toil behind the cellulloid.
My expectations for EPISODE 3 were very high - there was so much to wrap up. But, despite a couple of wonky moments, I thought it was brilliant. Yep - the old Lucas is back. And, despite my dissatisfaction with the whole "romance" angle, in the end it was all surprisingly effective, and unexpectedly emotional.
Artoo proves once again he Rules. Yoda should be up for an Oscar. Best Ewan yet. And Palpatine.....ah Palpatine: the human equivalent of that puzzle box in HELLRAISER!
The moment where the camera lingers on a certain Dark Helmet - it's held for several moments longer than you'd think. Very THX1138. Stay with me, this moment will.
Will Vader ever be the same?
I think it does actually improve the other prequels, and will make the OT a whole new experience to watch again.
Thanks George. It's been one heluva E-Ticket ride.
(back tomorrow to see it again!) -
May 19, 2005 1:19:41 AM CDT
I thought Darth Vader hunted down and killed Luke's father...
by rupee88
Yeah, I know it's been said 1000 times, but it's still stupid how Lucas ignored this and changed the whole backstory. Maybe you uber-apologists can still claim that Vader and Anakin are different people, but it's beyond a stretch and just lame. I just downloaded a sample of ROTS and I realized I was utterly bored watching it, just like AOTC. I guess I'll just download the DVD in a few months and watch the impressive CGI and try to ignore the story and dialogue and characters.
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May 19, 2005 1:32:25 AM CDT
Hey Rupee88, if you hate these movies SO much, why don't you tel
by krullboy
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May 19, 2005 1:36:16 AM CDT
How come when I go to the ROTS memories and photos talkback. I h
by orionsangels
They used to play it on Happy Days a lot, always made me cry lol
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***Harry, you traumatized this same nephew with
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Just got back from my midnight show. For the most part I liked it, but this being a talkback, here are my gripes ;)
1. The Vader Birth. The roar made me wince, but I was expecting to wince so the blow was softened. What irritated me more was the cliched pose he made while roaring. 2. The Emperor's look. Between the Puffy Shirt, the rubbery skin, and the giant toad sack hanging from his chin, and the way he held his arms up like a bunny rabbit while talking to the separatists via hologram, pretty much at any given time that the Emperor was on screen, something always looked wrong. Plus there is just something cinematically ineffective about having this dark, evil character in brightly lit, colorful environments. 3. The dialogue and delivery. While still a drastic step up from AotC, there are still at least 20 lines in this movie that made me wince. 4. Illogical solutions to plot points that had very obvious logical resolutions. Namely, Palpatine's transformation and Padme's death. Palpatine transforming into the evil looking emperor as a result of deflected force lighthing is odd and questionable, and takes some of the piss out of the character. THe obvious logical solution, that would have satisfied most, would be that the nasty face is Palpatine's true, ancient face, and the nice guy face was just his disguise which he threw down once he a: unleashed his full kung-fu and b: no longer needs to hide his identity since the jig is up and he's got a bajillion stormtroopers ready to kill anyone who looks at him cock-eyed. Padme's death. Why have her die of 'a broken heart' when there are obvious available solutions, a: she died because Anakin choked the shit out of her. b: she just got the shit choked out of her AND gave birth to twins. c: unbeknownst to us, if Padme spends more than an hour in the same outfit, she will die. 5. Those goddamned fucking saber trails. They ruined every duel in the film, especially the final one. Rather than do what they did previously, have the saber leave a single, broad trail that can actually be followed by the human eye, the saber now leaves broken up multi-trails, where at any given time in mid swing one saber appears to be 3-4 sabers at once. It's like the people at ILM suddenly decided that a shitty refresh rate was suddenly a 'special effect'. Also the triangle-tipped sabers were odd and pointless. Why change anything about the lightsabers? Who's complaining about the lightsabers? -
May 19, 2005 2:15:38 AM CDT
A request I'd like to make to people that have already seen the
by drompter
Whatever you are going to post, would you please add your personal rating of ROTS at the end of your post (or in the Subject, if you prefer), based on a ten scale, like 8.0/10, 6.5/10, etc.? Of course that at the end it is my opinion that will matters to myself, but I'd like to see what's the overall concensus in this site at least.
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Fuck i feel like a geek - i cannot wait 11 hours!!!
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I loved it. Immediately went into my top three. For the first time we saw some actual warmth between Padme and Anakin. As for the time it takes to have a kid. Do you really need a subtitle to pop and say '6 months later'? Cmon, have an imagination will ya? Not everything has to be spelled out to be good. We, as an audience, need to think for ourselves more than having everything spoonfed for us. Also about the 'rapid descent to the darkside.' Obviously you complainers 1. aren't married, 2. have not had a relationship that ran deeply than your palm and 3. never kissed a girl. If you had, you'd realise that relationships are a deep and devoted thing. I know if my wife was going to die and I knew about it, I would try anything to save her and with Palpatine convincing Anakin that there is a way to save Padme, I'd do the same, for the one I loved. Nice work on the midichlorians as well. I thought the explanation of how they can be manipulated to create life was inspired. It really tied that one up for me. Remember, just because you love something doesn't mean it's yours. These are Lucas's films and I am happy for once that I came out of a cinema smiling and shaky. That hasn't happened in a long time, a long time.
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I can't wait for the contradictions! I hope there's a scene with Anakin, Chewie, Threepio, and R2 so we can wonder why they don't recognioze each other on Cloud City. And I hope we go back to Tatooine for the fifth time so we can ask why Vader didn't first look there for Luke. Yeah baby!
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they could have given her implants - luke got a new hand, vader got new legs, arms, cock & balls - SO WHY DIDNT PADME GET HER TITS DONE?????
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Darth Vader, the intergalactic standard bearer for bad-ass, should never move like Peter Boyle in Young Frankenstein. Period. That moment broke this fanboy's heart, and singlehandedly ruined an okay movie.
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SO THAT ANAKIN/VADER WOULDNT GO LOOKING FOR THE TWINS BECAUSE HE THOUGHT THEY DIED WITH PADME.
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they did, in fact, use the Wilhelm scream.... My mind is so overloaded by the previous two hours' total sensory overload that I cannot summon the energy to explain how much I just enjoyed that.
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May 19, 2005 2:59:37 AM CDT
" I was struck by the evolution of the acting skills of Haydn Ch
by chopper_hk
...yup - from crap to really crap....
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May 19, 2005 3:09:18 AM CDT
Hey BanthafodderUK, Padme had small tits because Gardola the Hut
by krullboy
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Or did Hayden take some acting lessons between AOTC and ROTS? He's much better in ROTS than AOTC. I must admit I was blown away by ROTS, and I wasn't expecting to be. My only gripes are the ones that most people cite...namely Vader yelling NOOOO came off as rather awkward. However, it might not be as bad upon second viewing. As for the point of the wookie scenes, I just assumed it was a plot device to get Yoda away from Coruscant so he can't stop Palpatine. Plus, it's bloody wookies! They're always fun to watch except in the Star Wars Holiday Special.
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i thought George was too fat, old and rich to direct a good movie anymore.. tonight, thankfully, he proved me wrong.. this is a gooood movie.. yea there are some moments when the dialogue makes you wince and hayden christiansens acting makes you want to jam your toy plastic lightsaber into your own eye(!!), but overall, if you like star wars you should really like this film.. and i DESPISED the first two prequels.. im using the word DESPISED like a fat chick despises exercise..
AND I THINK I SPOTTED A CONTRADTION!
in jedi doesnt luke ask leia about what she remembers about her mom, and she says something like "she was sad blah blah".. WITH MEMORIES OF HER MOM.. um.. didnt i just see Padme DIE?!?!
anyway.. great flick.. my star wars peking order is now empire, new hope, sith, jedi, clones.. and i dont even want to mention the last one.. -
Vader wouldn't go to Tatooine to look for Luke because he doesn't know that he has any children. He believed they died with Padme.
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So good.
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suspense is unbearable...aaaargh!
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The magic is truly gone. I just came back from seeing RoTs, and I was totally disappointed. I
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WHAT'S THE POINT. THE FIRST COUPLE PREQUELS WERE VERY FLAWED FILMS. ROTS IS AWEFUL. NO PLOT. THE ACTING IS UNACCEPTABLE. I SEE A LOT OF SPECIAL EFFECTS BUT NOT MUCH GOING ON. & ANAKIN'S LOGIC- DESTROYING THE JEDI SO THE EMPEROR CAN GIVE ME THE GIFT OF IMMORTALITY IS RIDICULOUS. ANAKIN MAKES A HUGE MISTAKE & THEN COMPOUNDS IT BY FOLLOWING SIDIOUS. THERE'S NOTHING YOU HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE. YOU WILL BE BORED. I WAS. I SAW JEDI IN THE THEATERS. ENJOYED THE RE-RELEASE OF THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY, BUT LUCAS IS A HACK. AT LEAST THIS CHAPTER OF OUR LIFE IS OVER & WE CAN MOVE ON & BE ADULTS
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i thought everyone was just hating ROTS to be cool, i saw it tonight, just got back from it, pissed off as hell, ep 3= death curdle of the series, i felt like i was watching a badly acted soap opera, one great lightsaber fight and everything lucas had to cram into one movie to tie up all the loose ends, which he didnt. R2D2 became jar jar fucking binks for the first twenty minutes, way to win me over george, piss me off before the movie even gets started, man i am so mad, i wanted this movie to be soo good, fine anakin turns because he loves padme, i never saw one scene where they loved each other, not once in all 3 prequels!!!!!!!!!! anakin actually believes sam jackson was going to assasinate him then argues over the right thing to do after killing dooko like that!!!! jesus!!!! fuck you george lucas!!! i could go on but im sure you all agree with me, george lucas is a moron, he shouldnt be aloud to make another movie again. Fuck George Lucas up his uncreative ass!!!!!!!!
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I guess George felt the film was running long and he had to be cut out,but without actually seeing him return from the other side the whole scene with Yoda telling Obi Wan that Qui Gon has learned how to come back and train them felt really out of place.Oh well,I guess that's one more for the DVD.
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Anyway, I loved Revenge of the Sith!! It was absolutely fantastic! My expectations couldn't have been any lower, and thank goodness for that. The dialog between Anakin and Padme was not as bad as I was expecting and I didn't cringe at all. However, the "Nooooooooo!" scream at the end reminded me of the death of Snails in Dungeons and Dragons. Ugh. They should have done a second take on that one. nonetheless... my faith is restored. A+
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I thought it was great!
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I can't even beleive how good this movie is. It was so good that I dumped myself when it ended.
I'm have see it again... and again, and again, and again, and again, and so on until I run out of money.
-TheMe -
Good movie, better acting, better directing, and too much CGI!! I felt like I was flipping the pages of a graphic novel. Great movies draw you in, make you feel like your a part of what is going on, make you forget your watching something. B-, would have been an A except for all that digital photography, bring back expensive sets George! Oh, it's over, no more movies.........never mind!
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May 19, 2005 3:37:19 AM CDT
WHERE THE FUCK WAS JAR JAR!!??? HOW DARE GEORGE LUCAS CUT OUT TH
by deus ex gungana
That said, I can only give movie an 8 our of 10. If Jar Jar was in it, a perfect 10. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna play with that dancing Jar Jar figure that plays the Cantina music.
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Because it wasn't the one I saw tonight. It was a Star Wars movie, and I think some of you could stand to watch A NEW HOPE and EMPIRE again with a fresh eye, and notice some of the hammy dialogue, limited characterization, abrupt scene changes, etc. And: 1. LOet us first make clear that it's a lot better than Eps I or II. (And I did not dislike either of them) 2. Lucas has really outdone himself on the visuals. The opening space battle is literally too much for the human eye to take in. Especially when you're stuck in the %&@#! 2nd row because you got to the theater late. 3. There are large swaths of what I would call the "middle sequence" of the movie where it's as good - no, better - than anything in any Star Wars movie. Seriously. Even than Luke's battles with his Vader in EMPIRE or JEDI. Particularly what I would term Palpatine's "seduction" of Anakin, and the carrying out of Order 66. Ian McDirmaid steals the show during this stretch. Once he "transforms" he's a bit over the top. Some of the scene cutbacks are little jarring at times - some scenes should be stayed with longer. 4. Anakin's turn to the dark side still seems a little abrupt, but by the end he's pretty convincing as a power hungry rat bastard. 5. The humor isn't nearly as forced here. Having Jar Jar not speak is a big help. I didn't think R2 was too over the top, though I would have cut back his gymnastics a little. Right now I'll say it's better than all but STAR WARS and EMPIRE, and in some ways it may be better than them. Its only drawbacks may be that it's not quite as consistent as them, and it doesn't have Han Solo. PEOPLE: It is a Star Wars movie, and that's all you can ask for. And in this case it's a good one.
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i gotta stop reading this posts while i still like the movie! maybe i did drink the kool aid a little.. but it was no phantom, or clones! those movies were horrrible.. we should make our prisoners of war watch them as adequate substitute for TORTURE.. this wasnt THAT bad, was it? just let me live in my happy bubble for at least a couple days pplleaase
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Attending the 00:35hrs showing at the Vue in Bristol (Cribbs) I discovered I was sitting next to memebers of the UK Garrison of the 501st... which had a certain geeky cool to it!
My opinion of the film?
***MINOR SPOILER ALERT***
Oddly paced in places, particularly the middle third, much exposition and switching from setting to setting following the major players, but slightly incoherrant.
Effects work mostly superb, but there were a couple of painful shots. I was somewhat unimpressed with the opening flight through the battle, much of it was too choppy and confusing to get a clear idea of what the jedi were up to. Also the sound seemed rather muted in comparrison to the score, so there is a definite feeling of disconnect. Also, at the end when the Emperor's shuttle flies over to rescue Anakin, it casts a hard shadow in a setting that seems to have no other shadows - the effect seriously cheapening the shot.
Dialogue was clunky, but that was expected. What did startle me was the speed that Anakin falls once he starts, it's almost like a switch turning... it seemed to stretch disbelief a bit.
Still, it's the best of the prequels by a giant step, and I'd put it as just ahead of Jedi, so not bad. George has more or less delivered. We'll just have to see how it takes repeat viewing.
~ENDTRANS -
Sure there was some moments that i felt were hokey..( The Nooo Scene was bad ) But I feel that this a worthy volume of the Star Wars Saga that did give the goods. I Kinda understand why Lucas made the first two on the light side beacuse this film is Dark, Dark, Dark. I may need to watch Return Of the Jedi to wash that bitter pill that Return of the Sith gave. It will hold up as a very good Star Wars film. Trying to keep this post spoiler free but did anyone notice the scared look that Anikin gave before the helmet was attached? Wow. Great Flick..Oh and you haters can go fuck yourselves..If you know you wont like it, dont go see it. Lucas is not forcing you to go to the theater..
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Saw it at my local multiplex at midnight and will see it at a digital theater tomorrow. Did I say wow? Sorry I'm still buzzed from the film. Good Points: Anakin vs. Obi Wan, Palpatine vs. Jedi Council, Palp. vs. Yoda, the end sequence cutting from Alderaan to the Death Star to Tatooine. The opening sequence is the most exciting of any SW movie.
Darth Tenor: if you just got some new mechanical legs could you use them perfectly the first time? I thought that was ok.
Quote:
Padme's belly...
by MaulRat
Hasn't anyone else's girlfriend or wife had a baby in this talkback?
end quote
Maulrat: look where you are and think about what you just said:)
Seriously though it was good, and I bet those who bitch about it will see it again so they can find something else to complain about. George thanks you! -
Hey I'll have to see it again, but there were just a few rushed parts... Parts of the Lava Planet were hard to make out with the tones.. Maybe George should have made it at 2.5 hrs... Qui Gon?? Bummin here... But Geo Lucas realyy stepped it up this time.
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May 19, 2005 3:51:12 AM CDT
That was spectacular, but ROUGH!!! Oh man, I feel traumatized, a
by george newman
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Because with no new "Star Wars" movies, they will struggle to find another outlet for their hatred. Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying ROTS quite a few more times in the cinema. I liked it all, even the "NOOOOOOO!." How would you expect a newly-cyborgized man still smarting from getting almost every limb severed, burning alive, and undergoing extremely painful surgery to become a mechanical monster to react? I thought Palpatine's lie that induced the "NOOOO!" is perfect...it cements the pathos. My review? Combine the grand space opera of "New Hope," the dark forboding of "Empire," and the emotional resonance of "Jedi" (minus the Ewoks), and "Sith" really pays off. 9.5 out of 10. (would've been 10 if Jar Jar had died)
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May 19, 2005 4:00:15 AM CDT
Oh man, I feelt slightly traumatized and I'm having a hard time
by george newman
I loved it but golly, Mace dying and Anakin roasting Really caused me to ACHE. Mace's death is brutal and anakin on the volcano side is graphic and harsh. .[.[.[..[' I gotta go back and watch AOTC i suppose, but wasn't anakin's arm cut off Above the elbow. I thought that the Clone Wars cartoon just got it wrong by placing it on the forearm, but then in the film the mechanical hand is below the elbow too. Eh. Great Star Wars movie, but everything before mace's death is a mere flash in my memory
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May 19, 2005 4:04:30 AM CDT
Revenge of the Sith is Amazing. The Story we've all waited to Se
by atomica
My geekhood has come full circle. I am numb from the Pure greatness of this movie.
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May 19, 2005 4:06:36 AM CDT
Hey George Newman, will you be showing ROTS on U-62? BE THERE!!!
by krullboy
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I started my internet movie routine hunting for tidbits and info on Episode I. Once the trailer came out, I was hooked on Aint-it-cool-news. That and Cinescape, Coming Attractions by Corona, and does anyone remember Mr. Showbiz? Anyway, because of Star Wars, and because of sites like this one and those aforementioned, I can type with pride "I'm a Geek." You beautiful bastards made me realize how much of a geek I truly was, but how much fun it was to be one. Everything from Transformers the Movie to Lord of the Rings, coolness is coolness, and that should be celebrated. That's what I learned. Episode III marks the end of a era. Of speculation, of what-ifs. There it is, right in front of us. It was like one of those big mysteries you were never supposed to find out about being projected right in front of your eyes. 'Didja ever wonder...?' No, dude, stop wondering and watch. This is a new age of Geekdom. Where Lord of the Rings gets made. Where Daredevil had a shot of becoming a film. Where Spider-man and Doc Ock fight on a train, and it's REAL. Where Batman gets treated seriously. Where Ron Perlman gets to play Hellboy for crying out-fucking-loud. And we all owe that, in no small part, to Star Wars. No matter how much we hate on George Lucas, he was the guy to say "It's okay to dream." He's the guy that allowed dreamers to put their visions, their wondering on screen. THAT'S what Episode III represents. "I wonder how Darth Vader got in that suit." BOOM! There it is. "I wonder how the Jedi got killed off." BOOM! "What was Vader talking about before he fought Obi-Wan in Star Wars?" Well, now we know. The days of only wondering are over. It's time to wonder and create. Sure, Spielberg, Lucas, Cameron, they've done it before, years and decades before. But have they taken a question every kid's had since the 80s and answered it? I don't think so. We all agreed a Lord of the Rings film was impossible. That is, until we watched it. A Sin City movie? That would be nice to watch. And it was. You get my point. It's time to get that stuff on screen. The cool stuff. The stuff that makes you geek out. The live-action semi-truck transforming into Optimus Prime stuff. The Ramans rendevouzing with Earth stuff. Silver Surfer helping the Fantastic Four stop Galactus from devouring Earth stuff. The cool stuff; the stuff I swore I'd never get to see in my lifetime. The time is now, everyone. The old age of Geekdom has died with the last untold story of Star Wars being told. The new age of Geekdom has already begun. And I'm glad to be a witness to it. It's been great, everyone. Nivek out. P.S. Stop hatin'.
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i cant believe it, i know how you guys feel, i really wanted to love this movie too, but just because you were in love with the idea of a great final star wars movie doesnt mean you have to tell yourself that it was good, i mean come on, i sat there saying no, this movie is good , it has to be, but it wasnt, just saying "its a star wars movie doesnt make it better, does that mean it is at a lower level than most other movies? what is that really saying, your excusing this movie for the reasons you bashed the first two prequels, what the hell is going on, its okay if you didnt like it, stop lying to yourself and get over it!!!!
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Now, after having seen this movie, I'm actually looking forward to seeing George's "arty" films, cause at least there will probably be some love put into them and not just the feeling of someone handing in rushed homework.
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There are somethings I liked in this movie. Somethings I didn't like. Jar Jar DOES speak, he says "ex-squeeze me" one more time, probably for old times sake for George I guess. I liked the Anakin-Obi-Wan duel, I didn't mind the Yoda-Palpatine duel. I absolutely loathed the Mace Windu (plus 3 jedi's) v Palpatine fight. ***Spoilers here*** During the Windu v Palpatine fight palpatine stabs one of the jedi through the stomach and the other 3 Jedi Masters still alive just simply stand there and do nothing. Ian McDiarmid's acting AND Samuel l JACKSON's acting and the dialogue during these scenes were absolutely atrocious. He's the traitor. No HE's the traitor.vIt's absolutely pathetic in the way it's written and delivered. Anyway, overall it wasn't bad. You'd think there might have been a bit of bruising on Padme too after being force choked unconscious, but anyway. Overall, it was ok... I thought it was better than TPM or AOTC, but not as good as ANY of the OT. Cheers.
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May 19, 2005 4:17:27 AM CDT
10/10 fir the Star Wars movie I was hoping for. As a film in gen
by george newman
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The acting is the worst in the series. Anakins reasons for descent to the dark side are laughable and totally unrealistic. The jedi are apparently pushover bitches that are easily dispatched of (especially when three master jedi dont even attempt to defend themselves when Palpatine attacks). Qui Gon inventing the whole Jedi coming back as ghosts thing is the most ridiculous thing since midichlorians and is revealed as a throwaway line by Yoda. Dooku and Grievous are some of the most pointless villains in the history of cinema. The Wookies have absolutely no purpose other than to appear for a few seconds in order to make the most easily entertained of fans happy (why didn't Boba Fett just fly down nid at the screen then fly away while they were at it? The lightsaber duels are to most shoddily filmed of the entire series making it almost impossible to tell who is doing what at least 50% of the time. The opening sequeunce is the msot unexciting in all of the films (are we spposed to believe anakina nd obi wan are in any real danger? the hokey "landing a decrepit flying vessel" scene hinges on us actually believing that) The attempts at humor are painful to watch. Padme dying directly contradicts what Leia says about remembering her mother in Jedi (and if you use the excuse that she was remembering Bail Organas wife then it officially renders the scene in Jedi when Luke asks about her totally emotionless considering Leia is not eevn talking about the same person Luke is.) We STILL never get to see Darth Vader as we know him kicka ss despite all the publicity shots of him with a lightsaber. I've seen better produced scenes in porn than when robotic Vader is revealed. I could go on and on but I've already made my point.
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Well, OK, not really. But I liked it. Sure, Anakin's acceptance of the Dark Side seems a little too easy, but having read the novelization I know what he was supposed to be going through. Actually, I'm not sure if reading the novel first was a good idea or a bad one. It helped fill in some gaps, but it made me want to see some things that were missing too. The biggest being how the fight between Dooku and Obi-Wan/Anakin plays out much longer on the page. It was far too abrupt in the film. As of right now, what I wish was that the events of episodes 1 and 2 had been condensed into one film, and the events of episode 3 had been stretched out over two films. The last half hour of Sith is purely epic Star Wars though, and it did make me want to come home and watch A New Hope.
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I hope this is good. I'm going to see this in about three hours time...god...i hope this is good....
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Sigh, hit enter too fast. I meant to say, for anyone who's seen ROTS, was I the only one that cringed and held my head in my hands during the "NNNNNNNOOO" bit?
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Forget Vader's laughable scream, this movie was great. EMPIRE is still my favorite.
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Can't wait for the TV show(s) and the 3-D rereleases. I like fun movies too. I'm not all David Lynch all the time.Would I buy a Star Wars tee-shirt. No. But I'm wearing an "Eraserhead" shirt now. And blue plaid boxers....ya know, for my boys.
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There are so many aspects to this that disappointed me, I don't know where to begin, but here goes.
*****SPOILER ALERT*****
1. Obi-Wan on that ridiculous giant Hela Monster. Where the hell did that thing come from and why did he need to ride it? It sounded fake as hell too.
2. Darth Vader's "Noooooooooooo!" sent a rush of blood straight to my face, from embarrassment.
3. Surfing lava. Getting within 10 feet of lava can kill a person. Obi-Wan finishes his battle unscathed and hops aboard the ship without a BEAD OF SWEAT on his brow! What happened to making Star Wars a functional looking universe? Nonsense.
4. On the Wookiee planet, there was absolutely no reference to Chewie's father, "Itchy," who was one of many stars from the X-mas special. Whassup with that? No love for Itchy?
5. No Bill Murray cameo. Sin.
6. OK, getting serious again. They should have shown us that Greivous was part organic early on. For the fist act, I was cursing Lucas for thinking we were dumb enough to believe a cyborg had a cough.
7. Editing in general: Lucas needs a sedative. Thank god he wasn't all-powerful in the 70's. The original trilogy would have blown if not for the checks and balances of a producer, artistic overseers and the studio. Not kidding. Sith had its volume at 11 the whole time (except with the boring Anakin/Padme tripe scenes).
8. The Writing: in general. Phantom Penis was one of the biggest disappointments of my filmgoing life. But at least Menace had some sense of dramatic balance. At the end, Maul, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's well-choreographed fight juxtaposed with Padme sneaking across a pristine hanger, held up by John Williams' amazing piano-to-forte score, gave some ebb and flow. In Sith, it's one light saber battle to the next light saber battle. No quiet drama. Surfing on lava. I'm sorry, even if it's technically hovering, I still can't get over how cheesy that is. And it looked like shit. It looked JUST like the worst blue screen technology from the 70's that Lucas scorns now. And you know what? Even if it is better, I (and you) still don't believe they're in that place physically, so what does it matter?
9. That shot when what appeared to be a Fett clone of sorts puts on his helmet. The previous shot had his head hovering on the animated body. It looked about as realistic as Land of the Lost. That was just a shameful effects attempt. Really hideous.
10. Jimmy Smits. What the fuck is he doing in Star Wars?
11. The score was a REHASH of all the old scores, which makes no sense, since it's only the 3rd in the series. Any new music was UNRECOGNIZABLE, which is outrageous. But no one can blame Williams, because Lucas didn't give him ONE BLEEDING MOMENT to put a theme to. Only the last shot with the familiar theme made me think back with wistful reverence at a time when there were fucking LIMITS and SIMPLICITY!
12. Hayden. I'm sorry, the kid is not Anakin and he is not Vader. Vader does not exist until Ep. 4. The line of gay Asians in front of me certainly liked his chest though. He has filled out nicely.
13. Natalie. Not her fault. Padme is a non character.
14. Mace Windu. Samuel L. Motherfuckin' Jackson. How is it possible to have one of the most charismatic men in the world seem like cardboard? Who the fuck is Mace Windu? I couldn't tell you? And neither could anyone else, because he's faceless. He has no connection to anything.
15. 100% CGI Yoda, again. Liked some of it. Sure. But it's a joke now. He might as well be in that Diet Pepsi commercial forever.
16. Jackie Chan R2D2. Since when can R2 leap out of a ship? What, 20 years from now they have to lower him with a crane so what does that mean? Is it old age? Since when does he have rockets on his arms? Was he holding back in the original trilogy? the desire to make everything EXTREME like a Dew commercial makes me nauseous. Flashier isn't better.
17. Vader assembled like a Bionicle figure. Wasn't it cool when you thought Vader had become what he is over time? Through many battles, he slowly became more machine than man. So what the fuck. Let's throw this one in the dump now too? He's just thrown on a slab and his uniform, completely styled out by some unknown fashion designer who works for Palpatine, is tossed on him like a fresh paint job on an old chassis. Suddenly, he's Vader. No. No goddamn way that's Vader like that.
18. Not sure how I feel about everything tacked on at the end. Liked the last shot but every set looked like Star Trek. Even the beginning of the Death Star felt like a tack-on. Though I know it had to be there.
19. How did Padme know instantly the names Luke and Leia as they were handed to her? Another bone tossed to the mindless hounds in the audience.
20. Honestly, I knew this film was going to disappoint in the first 5 minutes. Compare with the simplicity of ANH. One little ship. One giant ship. There's drama in the first TEN SECONDS. You're rooting for the underdog. Simple compositions. In Sith, I didn't know where to look for the entire first battle. The whole film was like that. It's so busy that it's like walking quickly through the mall at Christmas time. Headache-inducing. He never gave us a rest except to bore us with a mundane love story. I really thought this could be something. But it really is the death twitch. Rotton Tomatoes was fixed for sure this time. I've lost confidence in them. BTW - I'm a huge Lucas lover, so this I'm miserable that this was bad. Really miserable. So I'm seeing it again on Saturday. (pre-bought ticket). Honestly, I don't know how I'm going to sit through it again.
FOR THE LOVERS: COOL SHIT
1. Count Dookie's beheading.
2. Opening crawl.
3. Yoda's subtle gesture taking out guards like a sawed off shotgun.
4. Annie getting his legs taken off.
5. Padme's pregnant belly cover-up.
6. ALL THE SOUND EFFECTS - way to go Ben.
7. Younger Moff Tarkin.
8. 6-engine Alderaan cruiser -- finally, a cool SET! No CGI creating 99% of everything we see!
9. The End. -
I could actually see where people had some problems with the last two but saying that the acting and writing got worse? Hilarious! I am laughing my ass off at the complete bullshit that is people pretending to have disliked this movie. Or, if you really didn't like it, then you are off your fucking rocker and snorting coke by the truck load. Stop pretending like you ever gave it a chance. This is just PT haters making sure that six years of trashing Lucas wasn't a waste of their time. The movie rocks.
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i feel let down. from now on, the only "star wars" i will appreciate are the originals. the prequels are dead to me.
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Lamelamelamelamelamelamelamelamelamelamelamelame!
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From the Revenge of the Sith Novel, page 412: "To Naboo, send her body..." Yoda stretched his head high, as though tasting a current in the Force. "Pregnant she must still appear. Hidden, safe, the children must be kept. Foundation of the new Jedi Order, they will be."
............................. And if you want to point out silly plot holes, how about: "Anakin, you've been away at war for so many, many months. I haven't seen you in soooo long. By the way, I'm knocked up." -
I need to start by stating that the original Star Wars films are my favourite all time movies, particularly Episode IV. This makes it harder to accept what has been turned out in the prequels. George Lucas is a visionary and a man who transformed movie making, but he simply can't write, or recognise, believable dialogue. Some of the lines in ROTS could have been penned by mentally challenged monkeys with crayons! I've heard better stuff from daytime soap operas! The other failing in the prequels has been the acting. Hayden Christensen can't act, period! Ewan McGregor putting on an english accent is absurd and Samuel L Jackson has never been worse. Despite these massive problems there have still been moments in the prequels that have genuinely excited me; the podrace sequence in ep.1, Yoda fighting in ep.2 and watching the evolution of the rebel alliance and empire in ep.3. However, this makes the disappointment even greater when i think of how magnificent these movies could have been, if only George had handed the scripting and direction to someone else.
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What a pile of trash!
This movie was good for the first 20 minutes as everyone has agreed...then it heads south. A world of colorful characters who had gobs of potential were utterly destroyed by Lucas' wretched script. These are good actors! They're all great in other films. They just happen to suck dirty anus in the star wars franchise.
...and to top it off, our first glimpse of Vader...what can I say? I looked at my friend next to me and said "He ruined it. He completely ruined it..." That's where I stopped watching, really. This ball was dropped harder than any other I've ever seen.
Whoever likes this film, I'll bet $100 they'll hate it in a week, just like the other prequels. Hell, we'd all think E's 4,5, and 6 were shite too if they were released today. It's a series of horrible films we happened to grow up on.
I've enjoyed the trip through the bad and the worse (since nothing in Star Wars has really been good) but I'm glad that it's over. -
... here in Australia was remarkable in that almost everything I saw in the trailer that happened could also have been explained by a hurricane, tornado or other strange but naturally occurring phenomenon ... I'm hinting that the trailers here should start showing a bit more soon ...
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Growing up with Star Wars it's hard to just look at this like any other movie and give my thoughts on it. The connecting between the old and new- such as hearing Vader say the name "Padme" in James Earl Jones' voice- was just so bizarre it will take awhile to really register in my mind. I'll be seeing it again soon and hopefully be able to better form an opinion. For now, though, just... Wow...
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Too bad George Lucas had to waste 1.5 episodes to get back into his own groove. This movie finally gives me (and apparently others as well) the satisfaction I was expecting from the new trilogy. Maybe I lowered my expectations to a point where I could only be pleasantly surprised, but even if that's the case, George won me kinda back.
Why kinda? Because as great as EP3 is, I couldn't stop thinking that it was such a waste of time and talent to make EPs 1 & 2 the way they are. If EPs1 & 2 had the same intensity and drama as EP3, there would have never been the problem of raped childhoods.
What I liked about this movie was that the CGI finally has reached a stage where you believe it, and are not aware of it's presence all the time. It sucks you in the way GL promised it to us since the OT Special Editions.
What I dislike about 1 & 2 is the colourfulness of the CGI - everything looks like cute little candywrappers & balloons, or worse, like the Stargate TV Series or Babylon 5. Some of that cute CGI crap is still in EP3, but also there's the coolest looking planet IMHO: Kashyyk (spelling?). It looks so damn monochrome and real it's not even funny, my favourite prequel planet for sure.
It's true that Anakin's turn to the dark side isn't really convincing, as a few minutes earlier, he finds out Palpatine is Sidious, then reports to Mace Windu, then another few minutes later he *joins* Sidious? Shouldn't he, after a few minutes, be still in the "I have been tricked by a Sith Lord into liking him, the Jedi were right about him, wow, a Sith-Lord trying to take over the galaxy, that's bad
"-State-of-mind???? I am trying really hard to see Anakin having come up to this point during EPs 1 & 2, but it doesn't work for me. Of course, he has dark feelings in him but also he's clever and tries to do the right thing for Padme and Obi-Wan, so it's not really believable that he is *that* dependent on his own nightmares about Padme dying, rather than to see through the Scheme. He's just not broken enough to be ready to turn to the dark fide of the sorce.
Anyway, this movie has so much cool new Star Wars moments that there's plenty of good stuff to make up for the bad.
And Obi-Wan turns out to be really the coolest guy in all SW, closely followed by Han Solo, but McGregors Obi-Wan delivers so much coolio in here it will leave you speechless. He's deep...yet not deep enough to hack off Anakins head after he sliced him up...
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I should have added that WoW trailer was ahead of SW3 and as for Mark Hamill, this interview in the Independent seems to suggest that he's obscenely well adjusted post the OT. How come he hasn't gone into a spiral of self-destruction after being thrust into such a massive role so early in his career like you're supposed to, I'll never know ... It's just not natural I tell you ... (http://news.independent.co.uk/people/profiles/story.jsp?story=639285)
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I neither snort coke and I'm definitely ON my rocker. Most of the acting WAS worse in this movie. Somehow George Lucas has made Ian McDiarmid turn in a poorer performance than he did way back in the Return of the Jedi. His cackling in ROTS was simply idiotic, not evil. Dr Evil was a more believable evil villain than the goose we were presented with in ROTS. Some of the writing was equally bad. The attempts Palpatine made to sway Anakin to the dark side for instance were simply laughable. Anakin in ROTS is supposed to be a fully trained Jedi Knight who has been fully accepted into the Jedi Order (although not yet made a Jedi Master) AND a hero of the Republic at that point, who has fought throughout the entire clone wars. Yet the Dark Lord mentions he has a "power" to save life and Anakin converts to the Dark Side in a matter of minutes. Anakin does this because of his dreams. Yet somehow Palpatine knows the exact detail of this dream without anyone telling him of it? Could he possibly have something to do with it? Would a trained Jedi Knight not even by suspicious? Who knows, we never will. IN addition this change to fully Jedi Knight status is opposed to the student he still was at the time of his conversion according to (HIMSELF) as stated in the O/T. This and other similar plot flaws actually creates continuity problems and EFFECTS the O/T if you consider all of Star Wars to be one part as GL would have us do. THIS is simply ONE example of why the writing is bad. All GL had to do was join the dots, all the major plot points were already laid out for him and yet he STILL managed to stuff it up. I can't explain how he managed to draw out such poor performances from his actors, though I thought Ewan McGregor was a lot better this time round. I even thought Hayden Christiansen was a bit better this time round, though I doubt he'll be nominated for any awards for his performance... Cheers.
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LMAO You all say it's good because you've talked shit to haters saying it would be awesome, and this is your last chance to own them. It failed. Accept your ownage.
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Great flick and I mean great - but not perfect. But what pisses me off is: Why deliver the horrible first two movies? This flick didn't make them forgiveable, it made them worse. The other thing that pisses me off is people here who are now going to claim TPM and AOTC are now somehow justified. Poo poo stinks really bad on my shoe but it becomes a lot more yucky if you mix it in my chocolate cake. This movie was chocolate cake but it wasn't magical cake that turned a bit of shit into something tasty that I want to eat and then lick off my fingers. Some here are doing that.
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May 19, 2005 5:52:45 AM CDT
I enjoy a good time at the movies as much as the next person.
by conan_the_humble
The problem with ROTS as I see it, is GL as created a number of cool things in this movie and a lot of terrible things. Yes i'm 20 years older, so's GL. He's been making these movies for 28 years now. He should be able to IMPROVE them. Not take a backwards step. That's why the haters are so vehement. M,e I'm more mildly disappointed rather than a hater so those rabid SW fans, please save your bile for others. As I said above, it was ok, probably ranked 4th out of the six. It was definitely not Shakespeare however as JinAustin so adroitly pointed out... Cheers.
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You fuckers are missing the point.
AT LEAST NO ONE ELSE WAS REVEALED TO BE RELATED!!! I was real scared there for a second Mace was going to be revealed as Lando's father, R2 was built by Anakin, Padme was Mon Mothma's niece, Palpatine had a wayward son named Han and Chewbacca was somehow related to Biggs.
Yes, it's got a WHOLE FUCKLOAD OF PROBLEMS! And yes, I will be happy to pick it apart in glee, as some of those problems are the kind of things that make you hate something the more you think about them. However, that doesn't keep this from being the best of the prequels and as my friend said, AFTER THE MOVIE, "It can't get any worse." Of course there was this really angry guy named Mark in the lobby 'agressively negotiating' with the ROTS standee, but I digress. -
It felt too rushed. I still loved it though.
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SPOILER! hey darth mulder, et al. i was shocked when no "Qui Gon Jinn" ghost appeared at the end of ROTS ala Alec Guiness in ESB and ROTJ. however, after further thought i remembered that shortly after "The Phantom Menace" came out Liam Neeson gave an interview severely criticising TPM and also george lucas' writing and directing. i dont know for sure, but i wouldnt be surprised if "Qui Gob Jinn's" ghost was absent at the end of ROTS because Liam and/or Lucas didnt want Liam to be in it due to his negative outlook on how the prequels have gone thus far. just a hunch. ROTS sucked balls and ive been one of the biggest star wars geeks since 1977. sigh.
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Oh Look! Little kiddies playing with toy light-sabers! wooooh! The movie MUST be good... Correct me if I'm wrong, but YOU'RE not five are you?? Fact is, Star Wars is a crap movie for anyone over the age of 12. Personally? I would never waste my money watching it in the theater. If anything, I'll watch the ILLEGAL PIRATED version. Gee, I hope the MPAA doesn't catch me.
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Unfuckinbelievable. Even if you liked EP I and II, they will look like shit to you with this one. Its that good
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May 19, 2005 6:14:15 AM CDT
The next time some poseur fan claims Empire as "DARK!" They wil
by lordenigma
Fucking Empire has that NUMBER FIVE IN THE TITLE FOR A REASON! It easily deserves it's fifth ranking, but you people keep on loving hamfisted Ford acting and a movie thematically similar to Attack. Some of you just did not crush on Portman the way you did on Fisher as a wee little lads. I just love that after a big battle in space. Lucas has a married love scene. He knows how to stick it to people who just hate love scenes. Fucking dark asshats. This movie rules. SW is legion. It is forever. Notice no one brings up the Rings anymore. Isnt life grand?
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May 19, 2005 6:16:34 AM CDT
"As for Mark Hamill, this interview in the Independent seems to
by commando cody
I've been lucky enough to meet Hamill twice due to work-related reasons and, as you were saying, he really is well-adjusted post OT. To be honest, he's just a really nice cool guy when you meet him. Very laid back, but also still a geek at heart even at his age now which likewise helps to keep him upbeat and personable. From my observations and from talking to him, I think Hamill did something very, very smart: he simply came to terms pretty damn fast with the fact that the highlight of his professional life was being Luke, so there was no point in EVER losing any sleep or EVER getting depressed further in terms of perpetually asking himself "How will I top that now? How will I vindicate my later life?" as you'd expect a sort of Hollywood personality type to do. Instead (at least from my meeting him) he just seems genuinely relaxed to know that for life he'll make a shitload of royalties, he'll never have to work again unless he wants to, and in the end he's simply happy to be able to say "Who needs to top STAR WARS? Whether I look back on my life when I was younger or now when I'm older, the bottom line is I was the star of the biggest event movies of all time and my character (and thus my image in my prime) will now be a film icon FOREVER, something few can lay claim to. And no one can ever take that away from me." Which when you think about it, is a pretty cool bragging rights thing to be able to kick back in your barca lounger chair and be able to say to anyone who gets in your face!
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You only see him 2 times in the background and he doesn't say a word.. yeah!!!
But I would have felt better if he had died in the movie, nothing big just a blaster shot through the gut or something, you don't even have to see it, just tell us.
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The Narnia trailer that played with Star Wars was shockingly good. The movie's visuals are stronger than I ever suspected. Pretty excited.
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May 19, 2005 6:20:46 AM CDT
Even if this movie is good, I will still bash it on these boards
by swarmy
I just want acceptance. I am weak. I admit it.
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May 19, 2005 6:23:46 AM CDT
OH WAIT, I JUST THOUGHT OF MY OH-SO-WITTY SARCASTIC COMMENT!!!!
by swarmy
Star Wars....ummm.......it's so bad that.......errr.....Jar Jar...mesa thinks..........DAMN!!!! I had it a minute ago. I'll be back.
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Well, I just got back from a mindnight showing of the last Star Wars movie of all time. It was good. REALLY good. My favorite of the new movies, and even better than Return of the Jedi. Not as good as Empire, but there is some debate in my head on weather it's better than New Hope. It starts out ok, but once the second half starts and Anakin goes all angst-man on us, I was on the edge of my seat for the rest of the movie. I definitly recomend you go see it when it, but don't bring the kids. The last scene with Anakin would have given me serious nightmares when I was young.
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This movie was better than sex!... Either it was terrific, or it's been so long that I forget what sex is like.... Probably a little of both.
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i am sorry i know there will be fans that love i respect that but this is not a better movie than empire and i feel to many holes all over it make it 3rd best in the 6 i may be wrong but it just left me waiting for more and waiting for lucas to go back to the good old days ....
lord of the rings was a way better trilogy than these 3 movies sorry to say i was a kid and loved the 4 and 5 and 6 but the first 3 are sad fakes of something we once loved
jk -
i am sorry i know there will be fans that love i respect that but this is not a better movie than empire and i feel to many holes all over it make it 3rd best in the 6 i may be wrong but it just left me waiting for more and waiting for lucas to go back to the good old days ....
lord of the rings was a way better trilogy than these 3 movies sorry to say i was a kid and loved the 4 and 5 and 6 but the first 3 are sad fakes of something we once loved
jk -
May 19, 2005 6:51:08 AM CDT
Wow, as shitty as some parts are, they're only about 10% of the
by iamnicksaicnsn
The other 90% was 100% perfection. Too bad Qui-Gon wasn't in them, that would've been sweet. And that first dialogue with Anakin and Padme should've been cut out. But Ian McDiarmid was so, fucking, amazing... when he says "DO it" to Anakin to kill Dooku, I almost shat my pants. AND FUCKING TARKIN, that was so sweet! The beginning cuts were weird and rushed, and there wasn't enough back and forth dialogue between Anakin and Obi-Wan during the final battle, and I would've liked to know why he chooses "Ben," but the opening 20 minutes are utterly awe-inspiring, and Jar Jar didn't speak, and all the battles were awesome, and Mace went down like a pimp, and Ian McDiarmid was just fucking unbelievable. SO all in all: ESB: 10; ROTS: 9.5, ROTJ: 9.5, ANH: 9.5, and the other two are somewhere around the 4-7 range, I need to rewatch them, see if anything can be redeemed.
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Nice movie.
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I swear to you, if I could force choke every single motherfucking one of you who nitpicks every little piece of shitty ass detail of this movie (or any other)...ID FUCKING DO IT WITHOUT REMORSE.
Episode 1 was a crapfest as was 85% of Episode 2. But to come here and bitch about every little consequential bit (and non-consequential for that matter) truly makes me puke worse than the fireplace scene in EP2.
I fucking hated Ep1 and most of 2, but this one...Its fucking good. Let get it straight, NOT "HOLIER THAN THOU" PERFECT ASSHOLES...its just a GREAT Star Wars film. Given that, Empire still holds the crown, but that just might be outta fuckin sentimental value. I trule hope all you fucken "haters-for-hating's-sake" get anal cancer. Bitches! -
Someone mentioned that they were a fan of the 'other epic' What epic deserves to be spoken about in hushed tones & with knowing winks? Seriously I'm intrigued. Do they mean the matrix or indiana jones. (no sarcasm here. Serious question)
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After one viewing there are a few things that have me wondering. (Here come the SPOILERS) There are a lot of turning points in this movie and the most important ones felt a little off. When Anakin makes his change to the dark side, it is too quick. It just doesn't seem like there was enough motivation for him to make that decision so completely and so suddenly. There's not enough struggle with his decision. It's like "Oh, okay, I'll be your bitch." Anakin's loss of The Duel is waaaayyy too telegraphed when it happens. As fast and furious as The Duel is, it should have ended just as quickly. But at one point they get separated and the fighting stops. Obi-Wan actually tells him not to try something because he'll get him. He brags about being powerful and does it anyway. BAM! He's toast. In the much maligned "NOOOOOO!" scene, my problem wasn't so much the screaming of "NOOOOO!"(which was a little much), but that the scene was too short. Vader asks about Padme. The Emperor tells him he killed her. There's a couple of quick shots of things being force-crushed by Vader in anger. Then he screams "NOOOO!". Annnd cut away to another scene! This is where he finds out it was all for nothing. Everything he gave up to save Padme, gone. Including Padme. By his hand. With his temper? He should have shredded that room. After what he did when he lost his mother, the loss of Padme should tipped him all the way over. At least for more than 5 to 10 seconds. Anyway, it's in the wee hours of the morning and I'm running on fumes. Those are the things that stick out in my mind right now that I had problems with. Just about everything else felt more like the OT than the Prequels. IMHO that's good. Oh yeah! Before the movie there was a new trailer for WOTW! It had new footage including: a man caught in a Tripods tenticles swinging between it's legs, a Tripod's reflection in a window or similar surface, a ferry being capsized with people in the water, a Tripod rising from under a street(just a large mass covered by debris), and various new character scenes. I've seen all the ones that have been on the net and this is new. Now I really can't wait for WOTW! Again, this was a good one. God, I've got to get to bed. I'm buzzing on too much coke & popcorn.
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It was rowan m. please! I have to know. What was 'the other epic'? This will bug me till the end of time.
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There is a scene in the novel where Yoda is blaming himself for everything going wrong the way it did and then Qui Gon's ghost appears to him to assure him that it wasn't his fault.Yoda then realizes that even he still has much to learn about the force and pledges himself to be Qui Gon's humble apprentice.I have also seen numerous articles in newspapers and on the various Star Wars related web sites and in an interview with Neeson where it was mentioned that he did indeed film a scene as Qui Gon Jinn for this film.Like I said before,hopefully it will be on the DVD.
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Mark Hamill has two-thirds of a point or something like that with profit sharing with some part of Star Wars, which Lucas gave him, probably something for the other films. Apparently he also has a very good deal with the people who made the Wing Commander games. He also said he invested well, so all things considered, financially he must be set. He also seems quite satisfied with the work he has done and is till doing. He has been helping to promote recent releases of a restored version of the "Big Red One" which is undoubtedly closer to what the director intended.
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Holy Shit!
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It's been happening since AOTC. Remember the line you always here in these films.."once you start down the dark path...". Well, Anakin started down that path a LONG time ago. He killed the sand people, slaughtered the women and children. He murdered Dooku, even though he was unnarmed (literally) and begging for mercy. All of those things were staged to give him that taste of dark power. So at the end, when the time was right, all he needed was a small nudge to take that final step. At that point, the dark side had him.
It's much like many criminals today. They steal, mug people, beat people up and show a general disregard and disrespect for life. When the opportunity comes and they kill someone, was it a fast downward spiral? No, it was the culmination of all the bad things they had done before that. They had ran the marathon, all that was left to do was step over the finish line.
That's really what the previous two movies were about. Showing how Anakin slowly got more comfortable with doing evil things. If you view it as a single film, it certainsly would seem rushed. But the arc of the story shows that he's been toeing that line for a long time. -
... I might have missed it - which is that I really liked how they showed how a lot of things were evolving towards the designs used in the OT. Namely, how the clone trooper armour was effectively storm trooper uniforms, proto TIE fighters and Star Destroyers, AT-ATs and I really liked seeing the Ranger uniforms from Jedi (in camoflague!) again for example ...
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I'd say it was defintely better than EP 1 and 2 combined. This movie is watchable just because Yoda has a bigger role and he is the most interesting character to watch. I like the Emperor stuff too! What I don't like is the cheesy padme/anakin scenes. Natalie Portmans
acting was way the hell over the top just adds more to the cheese factor. Surfing lava platforms is just stupid looking, reminds me of some really bad MTV videos I saw in the early 80's. They kept saying this was gonna be the greatest sword fight put to film...not even close! And Vader going cyber is way way too short! I wanted to see more of that.
Also Grevious was not the badass we were all hoping he would be. And the Wookies are hardly even in this at all! Oh well.... It has problems but it is still fun to watch.... It'll be alot better tho when I get this on DVD so I can't skip over all the cheese.
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All the questions raised in the prequels...Qui-gon needing to be burned, midichlorians, the virgin-birth, the prophecy/balance of the force etc. None of it added up to shit. It was all just kinda swept under the rug...like Lucas gave up on it, or decided it was a dumb idea. Oh, and the stormtroopers in OT...ar they clones or what? I'm still not clear on that. And don't even feed me some bullshit about conscrpts or some EU crap. Fuck EU, the answers need to be on film.
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In your face, bashers!
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I never thought I'd be able to fully enjoy a STAR WARS prequel without having to gloss over it's many flaws but this one did it. While there are things in there that didn't work, bits of dialogue that fit right in with the rest of the awkward moments that plagued PHANTOM MENACE and CLONES, this movie was a vast improvement over the last two and felt like it was a chapter that belonged to a different series of films altogether. The effects are better, the performances are stronger and the last twenty minutes are some of the best STAR WARS moments ever put on film. I'm glad that this one actually lived up to the hype.
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I have never been able to figure out if the idea for the prequels was just a moneyprinting afterthought, or did Lucas always intend to film prequels? If so, why the hell did he wait 20+ years to make them?
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I would appreciate if someone could give me an actual verified answer, as opposed to simple fanboy glazy-eye nonsense like "George Lucas is a great visionary! He knew the fans would not be able to appreciate the prequels until they were so and so old..."
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I have to see this again, it really was what I hoped it would be, plus a little more.
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"I have never been able to figure out if the idea for the prequels was just a moneyprinting afterthought, or did Lucas always intend to film prequels? If so, why the hell did he wait 20+ years to make them?"
He was waiting for technology to improve so he could create better effects to tell the STORY he wanted to tell. -
Yesterday afternoon I watched AOTC on DVD, perhaps my fourth complete viewing of the film. The dialogue is attrocious. The delivery is so poor in places. Just like the podrace commentator, Dex's diner yanks me out of the Star Wars world... horrible. But all of this I could forgive, if I could just CARE about what happens.... but I don't. Not at the cinema, desperate to love it, and not at home. Last night, I cared for the first time since as a 13yr old I sobbed as Vader burned on his pyre. ROTS is AWESOME. I came out of TPM and AOTC trying to convince myself I liked them, when it was obvious that I didn't. This time I was blown away. The dialogue is much, much better... the delivery is 90% on, not 90% off as with the previous two. The acting is ok, sufficient, and in places, great. The world is obviously Star Wars. But more than anything, I cared. I got back at 4am expecting to see page after page of rave reviews... now I'm not sure that everyone's been watching the same film. Yes, there are problems, but I feel sorry for any Star Wars fan that did not get the joy out of this flim that I did. Finally, I can believe that Anakin is under the helmet. But it did not make the first two films better, it made them worse... why couldn't they have been like this? Negative points: Palpatine being a little too pantomime OTT at times, too little Dooku, Anakin's apparent 30 second turn-around, and some inconsistencies with the OT. But none of those detract from the fact that this was Star Wars and it was great Star Wars. I've been watching Star Wars for 28 years and I know...
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Dude, you should have just done it. That would have shown character and determination... but you probably dont have it.
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you fucking haters did not create this great saga and you have no say in how it should be! you write your own original and amazing story and you can do whatever the fuck you want with it. the fact is the movie is good. its by no means the best and i understand the let downs, but lets be real here. just by the virtue of how great the OT is lucas has the right to fuck up as much as he wants. the leia/padme supposed plot hole has been explained and makes perfect sense. you have to let go of these unattainable ideals that youve construed around the world that this movie has created. if youre too much of a tight assed cry baby wanker to enjoy what is, and what was decided by the man who started it all, then you can waste your time with hate speech and be miserable. you wont ruin it for the real fans. so in closing all i have to say now is that obi-wan is god and he bitch slapped anakin properly. word!
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I was tired and trying put my thoughts together. I've got my second wind now. It's been a long night. I caught Lost. Then I went to the theater. I got there about 9:20pm. They let us get seated at about 10:50pm. The movie started about 12:11am. It finished at 2:25am. I came home and have been awake ever since. The kind of awake that I usually equate with drinking several cups of coffee. I really enjoyed the movie. On my first post all that came to mind was the stuff that I had a problem with. There certainly was alot of good stuff also. The opening sequence. Wow! The SFX. The movie went from one action scene to another. Very fast paced. I liked it very much and will probably see it again this weekend with my family. Right now though I am becoming aware of the fact that I won't be getting any sleep at all. Hmmm, 7:05am. Time for breakfast!
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Several people have asked this and pointed out how stupid Vader must be, so I think it's time someone came along and pointed out how stupid you yourselvesa are.
Vader doesn't know he has kids in Ep4. He believes he's killed Padme, who was pregnant with them. Why Would be search the galaxy for dead unborn foetus's?
Once he does find out about this new Skywalker (between 4 & 5) he does start searching (see opening crawl on Empire).
Also, why would he go back to Tatooine when he believes his kids dead? Why would he revisit a planet that fucked him up so much?
And can't you see that Vader now, aftre EpIII, isn't just a mindless power hungry monster. He genuinely believes he's mantaining peace in the galaxy. -
Ebert knows precisely dick. but thanks for playing.
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God....I regretted going to see this piece of junk....
with exception of the first 20 minutes, the rest is the same drivel dialogue and painful acting....f#@! this.!!!!!Q -
May 19, 2005 8:23:42 AM CDT
THIS MOVIE ROCKED - SAW THE 3:30AM IN NYC - whoever says they di
by thecat
That alone was worth the price of admission. While not perfect, THIS IS A GREAT MOVIE, STAR WARS IS BACK. And oh yeah, I loved the Jar Jar closeup, good for you George!
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Heres some scenes from the OT that would easily qualify (under your strict guidelines) for "shitty" moments in Star Wars movies:
ANH: 1-Solo going after the stormtroopers only to turn back at the sight of more. Yeah thats smart humor.
2- Stormtroopers shooting at Luke, Leia and Solo from 15 feet away and not getting a single shot.
ESB: 1- Lando telling Leia "You truly belong here with us among the clouds" Thats a classic line!
2- R2 screaming when he falls into the swamp, only to (get ready for this!) be spit out by the monster who had just swallowed him. Oh and dont get me started on the mud he "Spits out".
ROTJ: 1- Iconic Boba Fett falls into the Sarlacc by accident. And 3PO and R2 take a dive off the ship. That was comical!
2- And how about that imperial dude that falls back into the reactor when Solo throws a piece of metal at him....Yeah, those classic Star Wars movies had no "shitty" or "cheese" moments whatsoever. Anyways, hopefully me pointing out these AWFUL moments in SW history will not make you hate the originals. -
Absolutely loved this movie, now one of the greatest stories is complete. Time will tell if this movie holds its own like ANH and ESB, but I believe it will. Overall, I'm quit satisfied with the completion to the "circle".
The thing I loved the most were some of the parallels between the trilogies.
1) The battles in front of palpatine (ROTS anikin-dooko) and (ROTJ luke-vader).
2) Palpatine attacking (ROTS mace) and (luke ROTJ) while anikin watches and debates what to do.
And as I read all the hate feedback on the NOOOOO...
3) The tortured soul scream of NOOO by (anikin ROTS) and (luke ESB). -
The 00:31 show at the Odeon Leicester Square, London just about sums this film up for me. Not even a sell out performance, a couple of die hards wearing masks, an unenthuasiastic crowd (some guy tried to whip up the crowd with a "come on, lets make some noise" shout out that was plainly embarrassing), a small ripple of appausause at the end, followed by a rapid mass exodus (apart from those staying behind to watch the credits through misty eyes,laboring under the illusion that this is a defining moment in their lives). Oh and did I mention the projector breakdown five minutes into the film? An all round bad experience. Fuck you Lucas, fuck you Rick McCalum, fuck these shitty prequels, and FUCK YOU ODEON LEICESTER SQUARE!!!
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May 19, 2005 8:46:20 AM CDT
If this movie is good, isn't it going to prove the "haters" righ
by minderbinder
This one looks like it fixes many of the things people complained about in the first two. Not dark enough, not about Vader, not enough good action, too much kiddy nonsense. If Lucas finally did those things and the result is a much better movie, doesn't that prove the complainers right?
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May 19, 2005 8:49:48 AM CDT
I saw a midnight show. ROTS is lightyears better than TPM or AO
by red raider
The AMC Huebner Oaks theater in San Antonio had a 12:01 screening on all 14 screens, and thousands of fans were there, some of course dressed as their favorite characters. _______ Everyone seemed to really enjoy the film, which is not what I could say when I saw midnight shows of both TPM & AOTC. Unlike the previous two, my attention was locked on this movie and I didn't disengage until the final credits. Afterwards, everyone was talking about their favorite scenes, and the atmosphere was pretty favorable. Some fans were screaming: "LUCAS....ALL IS FORGIVEN!!!" ROTS is now my third favorite Star Wars film, behind ESB & ANH.
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If I saw this correctly, Japan and Korea are the only countries which missed the simultaneous rollout of SW3 and in fact, may not get the films for a few months. Given that Korea has the highest per capita percentage of households with broadband in the world, maybe that isn't such a good idea ...
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All around a great flick. (other than Natalie Portman's performance, everyone else rised above the wooden dialogue). She was extremely miscast. This one is definitely on par with the original series.
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I work in Korea, and I have to fucking wait until fucking May fucking 26th to see this fucking movie a full fucking week after every other fucking human in all other fucking countries have fucking seen ROTS. What the fuck is going on? That shit fucking film Kingdom of Heaven fucking came out here at the same fucking time as it fucking did back in the fucking US, but they fucking want for fucking ROTS????!!!????FUCK THIS FUCKING PLACE. FUCK. F.U.C.K.
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May 19, 2005 8:58:08 AM CDT
Imagine all the people (such as myself) who've waited DECADES fo
by jdanielp
The movie-going experience just isn't what it used to be. The sound wasn't quite right for the second-half of the entire picture! So sad. Even so, I saw and heard enough to wonder if it will be nominated for BEST PICTURE. It was THAT GOOD, folks. And you will also witness that visual/special/computer effects have reached a new high. Awesome movie. Sad movie-going experience. You can be a tough reviewer and give it a "9.9 out of 10" ...or you can admit that it was nearly an "A+" flick ...but personally, my popcorn bucket was overflowing. It's just that I found a hole in my bucket. I will see this at least two more times at the theatre, with expectations of having the sound fully intact. Here's to hoping everyone else's theatre-going experience lives up to expectations, ...especially if you have decades of love for STAR WARS, like I do.
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May 19, 2005 9:01:48 AM CDT
My favorite part was when Mon Mothma was sodomized with Palpatin
by krullboy
And also the scene where Padme felches Dorme, when Mas Amedda sticks his tongue in one of Sly Moore's 7 assholes, when Yoda walks in an Wookie gang bang and sees Chewie's wife dripping in more cum than a Chasey Laine video, when Anakin gives Padme "2 in the pink and 1 in the stink" with his fake hand, and last but not least, the scene where Kit Fisto shoves his fists in Yaddle's ass.
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May 19, 2005 9:09:26 AM CDT
Finally I can read all the reviews and articles I've been skippi
by rev_skarekroe
But how come Anakin didn't free all the slaves? His precognitive abilities suck.
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Anything going on at Leicester Square on the opening day? I have tickets for 11.35 and 3 years ago we had the pleasure of Anthony Daniels presenting each showing on the first day...anything to report?
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You have opened the floodgates. Fuck it, let the stupid comparisons begin.
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Mace Windu won that fight against Palpatine. He had his pruney ass on the ground and was about to carve him up like a Christmas turkey, but Anakin had to go and fuck things up! Mace practically had the dark lord of the sith defeated. That's something even Yoda can't claim. The fight scene in Palpatine's office was one of my favorite scenes of the whole movie.
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That's what it is, that is what it's always been. It's not Shakespeare, it's not a drama piece. It's Flash Gordan, it's Buck Rogers. Anyone who expects these films to be perfectly scientificly accurate, have an Oscar award winning screenplay, and 100% emotional realism from space opera is a goddamn moron. It's fun, it's over the top. Complaining about the drama this movie would be like complaining that the fight scenes in kill bill were too unrealistic. There was too much blood. there was no way Beatrix could have survived all that. The little girl who played the daughter sucked ass. Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch.
Don't get me wrong, I disliked Ep 1 and the first half of Ep. 2, but let's keep in mind what this is and isn't. -
May 19, 2005 9:18:04 AM CDT
And so this is how our childhood dreams die, with thunderous app
by kenoshi
Saw the midnight showing of ROTS and I must say that I went in with high expectations. I read 'Labrynth of Evil' and the novellization of ROTS and the way it was all written the story made a lot of sense and it wrapped up the prequel trilogy so well. But somewhere in the making of the movie a lot of that great writing was lost. What we got was some neat eye candy and action scenes broken up by some dry bits of dialogue hindered by lousy acting. As in AOTC, any scene between Anakin and Padme was terrible...the romance between them was so unconvincing. The scene between Anakin and Palpatine during the opera was the one bit of exposition that actually worked for me...it was a nice, quiet scene without CGI visuals interupting things and the otherwise overpowering soundtrack actually calmed down enough to let the dialogue flow. Too bad that hardly anything else worked. One of the film's biggest problems is that it feels so badly chopped up that it felt like I was watching cutscenes from a much longer and complete movie. A lot of details about the characters' motivations got left on the cutting room floor and in the long run it just makes things more confusing. For example, Padme's role in helping to organize the rebellion against Palpatine's incresingly authoritarian rule...totally left out. Mon Mothma was nowhere to be seen except maybe in the background. Anakin's conversion to the dark side was too rushed to be very convincing. Palpatine's transformation and subsequent hammy acting was so comically done that I nearly busted a gut laughing. They turned the Emperor into a friggin' Power Rangers villain. And they turned Darth Vader into Frankenstein's Monster. 'Fire bad' indeed. Overall I found this film to be the weakest of the Prequels. Yeah, I'm saying that TPM was better...at least the story felt more coherent.
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I like the movie. Didn't like the 1st one, liked parts of the 2nd one, and like this one. With a great BUT.
Anakin turning to the dark side is simply not believable. Let's recap: He's being treated nice by Palpatine. Yet he is warned by the Jedi Council that Palpatine might be planning something aweful. At the same time he's a clever young man who has the most beautful actress of our times as his girlfriend, and a good friend named Obi-Wan. Okay, now, his mentor and overall-awkward character Palpatine tells him all this cool stuff about the dark side, like he could probably stop the hottest actress of our times from dying at childbirth. So far, so good.
Now, when Anakin finds out that Palpatine is the Sith Lord, the one guy that has been causing him and his friends all this trouble, he does the right thing and instantly reports to Mace Windu. Nothing wrong with him up to here. In a non-GL world, Anakin must now realize that he was just a pawn in Sidious' game, including Sidious being indirectly the cause of his mothers death AND THEN HE NORMALLY WOULD TURN AGAINST PALPATINE. But it doesn't stop there. When he goes back to Palpatine's place where Mace Windu has made Sidious his bitch, why is he turning against Windu that moment, because, in that moment, he must realize that everything the Jedi Council taught him about being too young to become a master because of being too naive and angstful, has been the truth, and he actually should feel sorry about himself and help Windu kill Palpatine.
Okay, now after he stops Windu and Palpman kills him, he immediately says "What have I done...". WHAT HAVE I DONE. That means, "Oh shit, I have done something wrong, I can see it's wrong, I regret it, etc. etc. etc.". That's very far from LOVING his dark side if you ask me. Not even close to accepting the dark side.
Then, Sidious says something like "Welcome to the dark side, you're now on the dark side, your name is now Vader now kill all the Jedi and never reason again.", he suddenly accepts this and loves it.
I just don't feel it. There's no reason to go from "oh what have I done" to "let's slay some younglings". I cannot see it in Anakins character, and if George did the prequels to show us how somebody becomes a bad person, he just failed, damn straight, he failed. Sorry. I still like the movie, but for other reasons. It's the only one in the prequels that makes you feel like in the late 70's again, it has those few moments.
Other than that, I'd take a new episode of Curb you Enthusiasm over a new Star Wars episode any day. It's just better entertainment!
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May 19, 2005 9:24:43 AM CDT
RE: "Anakin's conversion to the dark side was too rushed to be v
by krullboy
Obviously you didn't fucking watch TPM or AOTC. But keep on hating, I'm sure that your sad devotion to that ancient TB religion won't help you conjure up your delusional childhood, or give you clairvoyance enough to realize these movies are not meant to be "art house/Lasse Hallestrom/Amelie" films, but fucking Saturday PM ENTERTAINMENT. If you want to be enlightened, go to a library.
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May 19, 2005 9:24:56 AM CDT
I WON'T HEAR A BAD WORD AGAINST IT! THIS FILM RULED!!!! This fi
by silentbobafett2
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Saw it this morning (Russian morning (-12 hrs.) ) and I must say it's hard not to notice the flaws. They may not
look very important, but they spoil the afterthoughts about the whole film.
I cannot comment on the acting but from what I've seen and heard in russian it was rather better than the first
two prequels. The first Anakin-Padme scene is really warm. Anakin and Obi Van dialogues are quite satisfactory.
At least now there is a sense of friendship between them.
Perhaps Lucas thought that the absolutely unnecessary and rather stupid Droid humour would make
the second part of the film look more dark, but it doesn't. In fact if the tone of the beginning was ordinary
and continued straight into the drama it would have been more effective. Flying R2 and droids screaming in fear
were indeed a waste of CG. Besides most of the big battle scenes looked really too messy to understand what
was going on.
The whole wookie plot line was again unnecessary and a WASTE of time. Really it's one of the major isues of
ROTS. The Fall Anakin is too quick. Not only in this film but in all the prequels. It just is not detailed enough, it was
not smartly described and shown. Lucas should have spoken to some mass murderers before attempting to picture
such a complex transform of a person.
I'm sorry to say that, but this film is unintellligent. First - nothing in the story indicated that at least 6 months have passed
between the rescue of Palpatine and the end. So Padme goes from 3months pregnant to birthgiving in what.. a week at most.
Second - The whole Lava planet looked so unreal, it was difficult to accept the final duel as something serious and dramatic. Not to
mention that such a planet would have a poisoned atmosphere.
Third - some of the effects, besides the abusive complexity of the action scenes, were really messed up. Examples : Grevious is
completely urealistic, Palpatines new rubber look, that lizard thing Obi Van rides, the lava.
Of course and obviously ROTS closes all the open questions that needed answers. But it does not bring back the "magic", the
same feel of ogranic reality, that the OT gave to me whenever I watched them. (My first viewing of ANH was in 1989, and I've liked
everything Star Wars ever since). It's not only a technical matter of evolution of CG and filmmaking as a whole. I believe Lucas
has just lost the SW-vibes he was getting from somewhere and giving to every spectator and employee. He is not the Lucas that
made the OT, and he will never become that again.
The best bit about ROTS I feel is the genuine humanising of Darth Vader. The film really has affected me in this part and i will not
feel the same about the Vader of the OT when I watch it again. I really pitied the character when he realises Padme is dead and he
has done it all for nothing. Yes, his NOOOOO!! was much over the top. But had he screamed more softly, fallen on his knees and
perhaps broken into tears, I would have absolutely loved this film and placed it in 3rd place after ANH and Empire.
P.S. Bringing a 5 year old kid to such a movie is just plain stupid, a big mistake and a source for BIG trouble. I won't be surprised if
Harry's nephew sets fire to whatever school he's going in a couple of years. -
No other movie had depressed the shit out of me in my life. A factor of all things, and this movie....made it the best possible experience for the FALL OF THE REPUBLIC. I saw it in a much smaller theater than i had paid for (because they claimed LUCAS instructed people not to save seats) and our seats were taken. The sound was terrible, and i missed a great experience. The problems i had..... the many "hey..you remember that time?"s, "Noooooo!!!", Lucas boredom with the old editing wipes, a Palpatine scene, and a few other things. What was suprisingly awesome? When the movie pulled silly gags, it was usually actually "funny". Weird, huh? And there was so much else I could bitch about...but im not gonna......because this one rocked my fucking balls off. Though it bummed me out as well.
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Yeah that movie was great. Yes his turn to the Dark Side was rushed some, but there WAS struggle there, before AND after his turn. He did not turn to the dark side and then "love it". Is that why Anakin looked in pain and was weeping and obviously confused and lost from the moment he turned on? It was all fairly well done... LOVED the faint scared look on his face when the helmet is lowered down. And the Mace/Palpy saber fight was my favorite...FUCKING BALLS NASTY.
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1 and 2 sucked in many ways....
revenge felt like a real star wars movie...
WHY DIDNT YOU MAKE THEM ALL THIS GOOD YOU DUMBASS!!!!
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OK, it was impossible for me NOT to have too high expectations for this one after all the trailers and stuff and I was fully aware of this so I was really expecting to be severly disappointed (does that make sense?).
Thing is: I wasn't. In fact, even my amplified expectations were surpassed.
I guess this was mainly because from my experience with the previous NT installments I did NOT at any time expect:
- the acting to be overly brilliant
- the romantic scenes to be bearable
- the plot play too much of a role
And I was pleasantly surprised to the contrary on two out of those three. Read on.
Now, before I go on, have to get this off my chest (for anyone just wanting my review just skip the next three paragraphs):
Harry, ARE YOU UTTERLY NUTS???
I happen to have a son who's about to turn 6 next month and we've "educated him in the ways of the Force" as you put it. We let him watch all 5 movies so far and as it is he's living and breathing them at the moment, taking in all the hype and our own excitement. However, as enthusiastic as we are ourselves, we only introduced him very gradually, first starting with TPM and ANH only. I would have let him watch ROTJ at that stage as well, but I wanted to keep the sequence. We prepared him for ESB by reading the abbreviated picture book first and explaining some of what was going to happen beforehands. We watched some of the documentaries about AOTC before watching it for the first time and the first few times he saw it, we still FFWD'd a few scenes. All in all I don't feel he's grasping much of the overall story yet, especially in the NT. For him it's mostly just the space ships, the droids, the aliens and the action. I had been thinking, we might get away again with just FFW'ding over the Anakin meltdown and restoration scene (of which I had accidentally already seen pictures beforehands) and otherwise let him see this one as well when it came out on DVD. But, the very first thought that crossed my mind when the end credits started rolling was: "He can't see this, not for the next few years, not more than the first 40 minutes or so (and what would be the point in that?)." The biggest problem is that I have no real idea how to explain this to him because those the things that make me not want to let him see this are pretty much exactly what I loved most about the film... the atmosfear (sic), the hopelessness, the suspense, the violence.
Hell, I remember how I reacted to movies myself, especially when seen in cinema, when I was his age and even up to when I was about 11. I would not get the images out of my head for weeks! And that would be a very real problem, too. I once got into hysterical panic in the middle of the night and dismembered my bed sheets with a walking stick just from watching Ghostbusters...
The thought that you would take a barely five year old to this movie without any preparation whatsoever WHEN YOU KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WAS COMING is simply unbelievable for me. Shame on you!
Nuff said...
Start at the beginning. The opening space battle. Whoa!.. Whoa!!!
Did I say Whoa!!!! yet?
Then the first surprise moment. Mind, I was watching the German dubbed version and I really hope this was the reason for this, but the first time the droids spoke, me and my friend were instantaneously exchanging glances and going: "WTF?! SMURFS????? Now, what's next? Darth Gargamel?" I swear this was 100% the same voice effect they used...
Next surprise moment close on the heels: R2's funny action. I did not expect anything like this and rationally viewed it was completely out of place, but it made me laugh out loud spontaneously, so it must have been right. I trust my guts. In hindsight, what this served was probably to increase the contrast to what was still to come and make that even darker.
Grievous: Way cool. Even better in his later scenes.
Dooku battle: Very, very cool as such but still a big hmmm for Hayden's acting just before the final blow. This could definitely have been more convincing. If at least Dooku had attempted some last attack. Killing him like that was not yet fitting the character at that point IMO.
I really enjoyed the chemistry between Anakin and Obi-Wan throughout the movie, both good and bad.
Anakin's reaction to Padme's pregnancy: Suprisingly well acted. For the very first time ever you really feel there's something going on between them. Unfortunately, this was the first and last time I felt this.
Generally I still found the pacing for the Padme/Anakin scenes was way better than in Clones where it utterly ruined most of the movie for me. While all of those scenes were just as annoying and wooden as I had expected them to be they were all short enough to be still exactly just below the pain threshold. They were essential to the plot so I could see that they could not have been skipped. OTOH George was apparently stuck with the mis-casting of the two characters so trimming those scenes down was probably the best that could have been made of it in that situation.
(Though I definitely winced when I saw Padme on the balcony BRUSHING HER FUCKEN HAIR. WTF?! F!)
The scenes with Obi-Wan on Utapau were very, very enjoyable, were it not for that ridiculuous sound effect they chose for that lizard thing he's riding. Sound effects and music generally were not quite up to par in this one I felt, not even compared to the other two prequels.
Wookies on Kashyyk? Whoops, I almost missed them...
Despite Hayden's deficiencies as an actor the build-up leading to Anakin's ultimate turn was absolutely great. I really felt I was going to understand what was going on when the time came. The scene with Palpatine telling his Sith legend was absolutely beautiful. Yet, when the moment came, I was suprised to realize that I still felt that Anakin's turn was too sudden...
Anyway, that scene. I have read comments stating that Palpatine was disfigured because his force lightning was deflected, but... that's not really what it looked like to me. TBH I have no idea what exactly disfigured him. I mean we've seen the effects of force lighting before, haven't we? Has anyone been disfigured by it? Not that I can remember. I did not even see him being hit by the lightning. His statement that he was getting weaker because of it also was definitely a lie and only intended to push Anakin. I still believe that he simply and fully consciously *chose* that moment to reveal his true face.
The rest of that scene was utterly spoiled by Hayden's performance. Yes, the script was probably flawed as well. Somehow it was all happening too damn fast all of a sudden. But I still think a better actor could have saved it. Made it more believable.
Anyway, from there on everthing was doomed - and I absolutely loved it!
There is absolutely nothing to criticize from that point forward up to the point when Vader walks from the table (I'll keep that for the next paragraph). That was all just so fucking intense it was hardly bearable and it REALLY made it all worth it. Note that "everything from that point forward" encompasses more than half of the movie, so just forget about anything negative I wrote so far, okay?
Now, the birth of the real, ultimate Vader as we know him. The scene with the mask coming down was totally heart stopping and able to bring a grown man close to tears (as if anything before that didn't already).
Then, ... I could hardly talk about it...
That walk...! That pose...! WHAT A FUCKING HORRIBLE ACTING PERFORMANCE! AND THAT WITH YOUR FACE HIDDEN AND NO DIALOG!
Was that really necessary? And if they had had to do 2000 shots of that scene. Anything would have been better then this. Even if Vader had suddenly grabbed a kane and started dancing and singing like the alien from Spaceballs. Really. It was that bad.
On the bottom line, I think I was and will be able to fill in the glaring holes in Hayden's acting in my imagination. And with that issue out of the way, this is just one GREAT and INTENSE movie from end to end and beyond. So for me it's 6.5/10 for the times when I fail to blind out the acting, 8.5/10 for when the imagination does what it's paid for and 12/10 for when I just shut out the rationale and listen to my guts... -
Too many whiners in this talkback, and too many trolls (on either side). It's frankly more depressing than the film was.
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May 19, 2005 9:43:15 AM CDT
Just saw it here in LA... dissapointed... lacks emotion... rushe
by russman
It should've been so much better. And yeah, the blur effect on the lightsabers sucked... as did all the fucking cuts and cuts to close-ups.... (sigh) oh well. It's over.... it is over.
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May 19, 2005 9:44:46 AM CDT
Im glad the professor (Vodoley) is here to let us know these thi
by lost in uranus
Vodoley, I will gladly let you polish my know just to keep you from posting the stupidest most inane and retarded shit I seen on this talkback so far. Why bitch about a planet with a completely toxic atmosphere when you could have just started by saying that THERES NO FUCKING SOUND IN SPACE. Hence the deeming the SW films completely worthless in your opinion stupid opinion. Fuckin twat.
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Roger Ebert says he believes the third trilogy will probably be made at some point. Just not with GL on board. He might just give the story and then shut up. After the Prequels, I have to say that's a good thing. Something to dream about. Also, read my previous post, it's great!
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If you're looking through an article about a movie after its already been released, and you still haven't seen it, then you've no right to bitch that someone ruined it for you because they mentioned something that happens in the movie.
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.. he was waiting for the rights which 20th Century Fox had in the OT, to revert back to him. The moment he'd re-gained complete control of the franchise, the prequels went into production. ========= I saw SITH at 2:00 this morning. The 'important' parts of it were pretty good, I thought. But like the other prequels, it suffers somewhat from aimless & clumsy storytelling.
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Until in an "ingenious" bit of storytelling on GL's part, Master Windu suddenly fell victim to the "evil Bond villain syndrome" and decided to tell Anakin, Palpatine and the audience that the time had come for Palpatine to die. He then raised his lightsaber up into the air over his head. All this added up to sufficient time for Anakin to chop his shoulder off. If Windu had simply flicked his lightsaber and decapitated him. Everything would have been peachy and of course ruined the setup to the O/T. To those who shrilly cry that all this is is Space Opera. Duh. If it wasn't you wouldn't be defending it. If a drama had dialogue and acting like this you'd be screaming to the heavens. And to whoever it was that said this will be nominated at the Oscars for Best Picture, well to quote Sarah Connor, "you're the one living in a fucking dream"... And to those who state otherwise, I'll argue (without qualification) at your level. LOTR SHAT all over this series. Cheers.
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May 19, 2005 9:56:38 AM CDT
The Wookie's dialogue was awful and ruined the movie.
by voice o. reason
It was so unrealistic. This should've been a great movie, but instead, George Lucas crapped on my childhood dreams. STAR WARS sucks. This entire franchise is 28 years of my life I'll never get back. REVENGE OF THE SITH was the worst movie I've ever seen. Oh my God, you fanboys are sad. How can you like a movie with such unrealistic Wookie dialogue? What's wrong with you people. Jeez.
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Sidious might have just let Windu appear to beat him so he could get Anakin to turn.
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May 19, 2005 10:00:42 AM CDT
Remember the black LOTR nerd from Conan O"Brien's Triumph at the
by larry david
Thank god. SW fans are bad and nerdy but LOTR fans are downright nerdy!!!!!
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May 19, 2005 10:04:37 AM CDT
This sounds like the TB's for Episodes I and II...a bunch of peo
by remcycle
...you guys are going on about "haters for hating's sake". Believe me, if the movie was any good, I don't think there'd be too many haters, and you'll notice that most of us have reasons for our opinions. Like back in the talkbacks for TPM, there were a bunch of people going on about "you guys, it's a kids film. take it for what it is", basically defending it just so they don't have to admit that the movie they stood in line for for hours really blew. These are the same people that now say TPM sucked. The same will happen with ROTS. The people who hated it will continue to think that GL is a hack while those who claim to love ROTS will be changing their tune in a week or two, once they've forgotten about all the time they blew in a line, all the $$ they blew on merchandise, and all the shit they took from their significant others for being so hard for a film that looked like it was going to suck in the trailers as bad as it really did.
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Everyone...
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Lucas has done it. He
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I'm sure the haters are all having an existential crisis right now...a GOOD new Star Wars movie?! I'm sure they keep telling themselves "I must hate, I must hate, I must hate it...the fur on that Wookiee looked so fake...that one line of dialogue about the thing was so bad!" While deep inside their in the works for months carefully planned diatribes have been rendered invalid by a competently made and massively enjoyable film. No apologies here.
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... Ever notice how Rick McCallum's neck pouch has grown more and more like Lucas'? -- Orrrr maybe, Lucas' is growing more and more like McCallum's. Who's to say in this crazy galatic empire we call STAAAAAR WAAAAAARS.
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It's "cheets", not "cheats".
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... and cheats on all forms of hetrosexuality.
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CANT FUCKING WAIT - READING ALL THESE POSITIVE POSTS IS VERY ENCOURAGING. 3 HOURS TO GO, 3 HOURS TO GO........
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www.demonoid.com for those who just don't want to give lucas money cause of his previous 2 Episodes. And then you can edit out the bad dailogue and other garbard lucas put in.
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... ya know, Yoda, in Italian, means "midget made of weed".
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... and cheats on Red Bull.
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May 19, 2005 10:22:14 AM CDT
Ichi The Killer watches the opening titles/crawl...
by embrypotzebra721
and jizzes on it.
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Why defend something you truly enjoyed? I personally enjoyed the the whole movie, and the movie as a whole. But to say you "hate it" because it didnt cater to your every whim is just....well, just makes you a stinky asshole. Seriously, people are nitpickin this movie bit (He didnt step correctly for being an amputee!) by fuckin bit and bitch about the slightest thing that didnt meet their preconceived expectations. This,when every fuckin flaw you can extract from this movie can also be easily extracted from the OT. But for some reason, the haters never touch the sacred OT. To say that EP1 sucked major balls is correct, and EP2 had some of the worst dialogue in any SW movie...but this one? What complains do we hear? Oh "his transformation was too quick and unconvincing". Oh, you mean like Han and Leia's romance where they end one movie as barely friends and by next movie they are madly in love? (though in denial) NO THATS NOT too quick and unconvincing...is it? We finally get a good SW film to enjoy, and I cant believe there's fuckin people out to crap on it on the simplest of shit: "Gee, where did that giant lizard come from?" I dont know, maybe from the same place that the creature in the garbage disposal came from. Maybe?
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May 19, 2005 10:28:03 AM CDT
David Letterman Has A Beer And Cheats On His Mom...
by embrypotzebra721
... with the gap in his teeth.
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Or a geek in denial. Say it at a midnight screening and BOY it sucked. Not as hard as Episode I, but it was more disappointing and had more embarassing moments, Jar Jar excluded. Too many accessories: it
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This is what lucas is about, F/X, nothing more. I suggest he just make a movie where nobody talks and just have explosions. Anything more than explosions ruins his movies. This is a 30 minute movie at best, just watch the explosions.
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... and cheats on anything having to do with being interesting. (sorry, I'm running out)
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So, I'm off to comingsoon.net, where the real news can be found...not fanboy idiocy.
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May 19, 2005 10:39:31 AM CDT
How Leia remembers Padme (i.e. her REAL mother from "Jedi")
by voice o. reason
She probably had a connection to her mother through the Force. Luke's more connected to their father, Leia's more connected to her mother. It makes sense.
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... the Jedi. Duh.
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Only cause you had to make something up to fill in the plot holes Lucas has left all over the place.
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Its NOT a good movie. period. Go back and reread the positive reviews. example: "it owned my ass even though it had some bad dialogue and some wooden acting but it still rocked my balls!" If it had flaws that EVERYONE CAN SEE than its not a great movie. Accept it SW fans.
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The "it" I was referring to was, in fact, the made up explanation I used to fill in the plot hole left by Lucas.
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not. do you have comments on the movie?
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Thank You.
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... like Lord Of The Rings better than Star Wars, and cheat on him. Okay, I'm fucking done.
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I paid $10 and I had a blast and I enjoyed the movie, I now return to my regular life. What's next?
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This shirt is funny as sith.. wish I had found it before the movie.
http://www.crazytees.com/product.php?productid=16199
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Saw it early this morning at the 12:01 am show here in Winnipeg. After all we've been through as Star Wars fans, this one hit every note perfectly. Even the "Vader scream" did not bother me one bit. I don't know about Ep III making the first two look better, but it definately is the perfect final piece to this grand tapestry. My one TINY nitpick: why did Padme have to say the names, "Luke", "Leia" during the birth? It makes the whole "Brother/sister" revelation in Ep VI kind of redundant.....but if that is all I have to nitpick about, I am a happy happy 31 year old man right now.
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It's finally over.
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3rd best SW movie gets most of it right. The dialogue stinks. There's still too much visual mumbo-jumbo. The jokes die. Still,this extravaganza is a grand, stirring almost-triumph over the first 2 prequels. The acting is markedly better. The sense of dread actually comes through the relentless CGI, CGI and CGI. I was genuinely sad when the Jedi were being slaughtered, because I realized that these were sad images from the (allegedly) final SW film. The whole thing smacks of "This is it, folks! No more STAR WARS!!!" Lucas does a nice job with the pace; Having to squeeze 4,000 hanging plot threads into 2hrs and change final exhalation of STAR WARStm-breath film. It works for the most part. Were the prequels a bit of a let-down? Yes. But, then again, I was 8 when JEDI came out; and I didn't know what real life was. I imagine kids will eat up the prequels with a spoon. Does Episode 3 complete the circle? Mostly. Lucas brings back the FLESH-the idea that people can be ruined and/or destroyed by the filthy(yet wonderous) technology(and/or nature). He does a nice job at injecting a soul into this kinda-brilliant franchise. It's an ironic circle. Did I feel like a kid again? Damn skippy. Would I wish these new STAR WARS prequels hadn't been made? Drop Dead, you creep!!! Do I want more? What do you think? Lucas is a GOD. I don't care if he can-or-cannot direct actors. I don't care if he relates mor to technology than to humanity.More STAR WARS please,sir. Episode 1 fans will picket the Oscars. This is a GOOD movie. Bless Mr. Lucas for making a beautiful saga mostly work.
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All I have to say. If he'd got a writer in to handle the very love scenes on which the plot turns this could have been special. As it is, it's a very attractive, occasionally brilliant film.
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I really hate that bullshit of R2 flying, where the fuck was this flying in the original films??
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Anyone notice the Wookies doing the Tarzan yell again ala Chewie in ROTJ?
Cheesy...
Would have been nice to see more of Kashyyyk instead of just the one beach scene. Do Wookies play beach blanket bingo? -
I'm doing this for your own good. You KNOW you are disapointed by ROTS. Quotes from your post "dialogue stinks. too much visual mumbo-jumbo. the jokes die. lucas can't direct actors. almost-triumph over the first 2 prequels". Its OK to admit these things and say the movie was unfullfilling and STILL BE A SW FAN. Now if I can only get you to put the beer down...
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that the force will be with me @ 8:15 est when I plant my ass in a theater seat and hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
With Lucas building that massive production studio, I am thinking it won't be long before he decides to make 3 more movies about Jedi.
Maybe he gets Rodriguez, Spielberg, and Fincher to each direct one...you hear that George. -
May 19, 2005 11:20:14 AM CDT
Seriously Unimpressed (And I liked the other 5 movies!!)
by genrefanboy
Badly edited. Rushed plot. Key moments poorly handled . FX ok but not stellar. Williams music was treated worse than AOTC. @ least AOTC had plenty of it here GL decided to let the poor dialog take centre stage and only use a small amount of the impressive soundtrack CD score.
It shows that GL had a lot of trouble with the story. I think he became bored after AOTC and said to himself whatever I do will get a bad reaction so fuck the fans and go for an OTT darker pic which tries so hard to resolve everything but fails miserably due to pacing, acting, editing & story issues (does not leave much else does it!!). It seemed as though the entire Prequel production team was burnt out and just wanted to move onto something else as the whole movie feels tired & run down.
Yoda & Obi were the best actors here. Anakin's character was not believable enough due to the poor script not giving him enough motive to turn. Padme's fate was also unrealistic as surely medical science could keep her alive... Palpatine was good but Sidious was OTT @ times to such an extent he has damaged the impression his character made in ROTJ (less is always more George).
Mace was passable but no more. Dooku was good but his part should have been extended into a much larger part of the movie instead of the pointless Grievous sub plot.
I'm glad GL is only producing for a while as his directing skills have regressed from even AOTC & TPM levels. Its as though all the carefully plotted elements from those movies were discarded for swift unbelievable resolutions as he was bored and wanted to finish the series quickly so he could do something else instead. Better than TPM but only just...
Once the hype has died down I suspect many other fans will realise this movie is not the one you have been looking for & that eversince TESB it has been sadly downhill all the way as GL lost the SW plot many years ago...
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Just kidding. I love the haters, the "han shot first" t-shirt wearers, for they love star wars more than I ever will. Six movies of sub-soap opera level acting and plotting and you couldnt see it for what it was until the new trilogy came out. Sorry George Lucas destroyed those childhood dreams, but they were all lies to begin with - no one is responsible for the death of your imagination but you. Any Star Wars movie, new or old, will only give as much back to you as the emotional investment that you put into it. It's never, ever been as good as you thought it was, not even half as good. The truth really does hurt. Of course I love episode III anyway because it's star wars, and it meant so much to me as a kid, and I loved episode III as much as any of them. And yes I still do think "deep thoughts" about Star Wars but I cant see them as anything more than a series of fantasy movies meant to teach a good lesson to children, as important as a lesson as that is. Star Wars is a great "message movie" but other movies have relayed the same message with more thought, wit and intelligence. Star Wars backs it's message up with fantastic sfx instead, hence it's appeal to CHILDREN. Lucas wanted kids to get just as excited about a movie as he did with flash gordon and wwii flicks when he was little. That's it's purpose and it does a great job at it, hell it's the best of it's kind next to Indiana Jones (similarly simplistic story-wise but with rockin' action, the way these kinds of movies SHOULD BE). I almost wish I could be as obsessed with the movies as the haters are, to give the"holy trilogy" a level of importance most people reserve for their families. I was when I was 8, maybe you guys are just havent grown up.
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May 19, 2005 11:31:29 AM CDT
TOBY SKLUTE bids thee adieu...there is nothing left for me here!
by turbonerd
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May 19, 2005 11:34:24 AM CDT
One movie to rule them all...Revenge of the Sith completes the g
by atticus finch
Revenge of the Sith has secured Star Wars as the greatest film saga ever. It had more emotion in the last 35-45 minutes than all three Bored of the Rings shit stains combined. Let the haters say what they want...for me, Revenge was perfect.
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IT's pg-13, so quit saying kids actually like this movie. It just does not capture the kids like the OT did. Kids are more excited about LOTR, SW doesn't cut it anymore.
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Don't think so, in fact, it's so poorly done that few will bother to sit through TPM again. Which means it just ain't that great. Emotion? Did you cry??? Doubtful.
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May 19, 2005 11:54:09 AM CDT
To blindly take children to see films that are age inappropriate
by barry egan
They aren't mini adults, people.
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...The Millenium Falcon appears just after Obi and Anakin crash land on Coruscant. It is on the lower-right of the screen.
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May 19, 2005 11:55:32 AM CDT
To blindly take children to see films that are age inappropriate
by barry egan
They aren't mini adults, people.
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I would love to see Ep 1 and 2 condensed down into a 20 minute prologe placed before Ep 3. Then trim a bit of the silly moments in 3 and you've got a pretty tight prequel, the only thing you'll ever need to watch.
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The LOTR films are PG-13. Now leave this thread alone and stop trying to bring another lame ass LOTR vs SW argument into it. Bad dog.
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Psychological research? It's a movie. A movie that got arbitrarally slapped with a PG-13 by the clueless MPAA. They didn't exhume Sigmund Freud to weigh in on this one. The kiddies will be fine.
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from the back and forth hating and go the the other SW celebration talkback. check out the fat guy with a beard in the queen of naboo outfit. fucking hi-larious.
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May 19, 2005 12:12:56 PM CDT
I LOVED THE MOVIE, LOVED ALL THE PREQUELS AND ALL THE STAR WARS
by jericho1368
I don't care what other people think. I loved this movie, I loved Attack of the Clones, Phantom Menace AND I was there in 1977 when the first Star Wars hit so I've been seeing them all along. The story is pure brilliance. It's supposed to be viewed as one big movie and it works best that way. Viewing it any other way is like taking one chapter out of a 6 chapter book and judging the book on the one chapter. I loved the acting, characterization and everything from start to finish. And what I like most about these movies is that it brings us back to the fun of Saturday Matinee Serials, something sorely lacking in cinema today. All that and some great life lessons people can apply to their every day life. What an epic. Thank you George!
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But some stuff just was unnecessary and detracted from the main plot.
When Grevious was revealed to have organic bits, it was cool for about 2 seconds.
Then it was, Oh, so that's why he coughs.
Then it was, Wait, that was completely unnecessary.
I'm fine with Artoo being able to fly. I figure after being with a ragtag rebellion for 18 years, flying jets maintainence must be expensive and he lost that ability. But Artoo shouldn't be able to bounce around like a bunny or take the shit kicking he did. How the fuck does he then get taken down by a jawa? -
Not as good as ESB, but this could take a place next to the OT. Its not perfect, Portman and Jackson are uncomfortable, and some scenes just don't work (Darth Vader - "NOOOOOO-") but this movie reminded me of what incredible imagination Lucas has, what unique characters and great storytelling he's capable of. Plus, there's blatant shots at Bush.
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I'm so sorry some of you didnt find it "believable" that obi and ankain could "ride" the lava. Well I dont find it "believable" that space ships make NOISES in SPACE. I dont find laser pistols believable and I certainly dont find it believable that they could be "reloaded". I defintiely dont find it believable that Leia would call Chewbacca a "walking carpet" when there's no way in hell she would know what a carpet was, unless she'd been studying earh history... oh excuse me, earth FUTURE. Oh but that OT was just so realistic and believable. I believed every moment of that giant worm that lived in space. Guess it, and everything that lived in it, didnt need to breathe, or eat, or be anything else but a time filler in a sci fi movie. Oh but those OT movies sure were realistic, all right. Those new ones though, sheesh, people riding lava and riding weird, fantastical creatures. Weird creatures in a STAR WARS movie? Blasphemy.
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Really. He is one underrated actor. Brilliant. I couldn't see anyone else in this role doing a better job. He was so good, when watching the original trilogy, I can picture him in the suit.
TWO THUMBS UP HAYDEN, JOB WELL DONE!!!!!!!!!!! -
This is the type of detail the pervades the prequels and I think shows Lucas' inability to take a step back and look at the big picture. Okay, so a JEDI is flying a fighter and a bunch of little droids drop onto his ship. Instead of a drawn out convoluted sequence of trying to scrape off the bots, why not have a simple, tight, cool shot of Obi-Wan Force-pushing the bots off his ship. What, the Force doesn't work if you're siting down? Misiles comming in? Force-push them into enemy fighters. Show why it actually makes sense to have Jedi as fighter pilots in the first place!
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May 19, 2005 12:27:36 PM CDT
Sound in space is for the audience's benefit, like subtitles.
by i dunno
If the characters actually heard stuff in space then it would be a mistake but they don't. And why wouldn't Leia know what a carpet is? They have carpetting in the SW universe. You people are really reaching now.
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Loved it. Very little in this movie disappointed me - I have no major complaints. Can ya believe it?!
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I saw the midnite showing, and I saw one of the most visually stunning movies I have ever seen, with one of the best soundtracks I have ever heard, with the worst movie dialogue that has ever been put to film. The love talk between Ani and the senator was complete shite. It had the audience howling with laughter. There were several intentionally funny things that people laughed at as well, but, man. George Luc-ass should have someone else writing the script. The pros definitely outweighed the cons, but I actually got embarassed by how bad some of the dialogue was.
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Ok, I've been trying to avoid spoilers until I saw the movie. So if you have already covered this one ad nauseam as apparently you have with the "Leia remembering her mother" issue (I missed that one too), then I apologize. Please humor me. - How did Anakin learn how to become a Jedi ghost as he did at the end of RotJ? If we are to take RotS, then Qui Gon was the first Jedi to figure this out and he taught Yoda and Obi Wan. Who of those three would have taught Baby Killer and when?
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Everyone is going to jump me but i doebt it will happen but i almost wish for a remake of the Original trilogy... I think the confontation in episode 4 between vader and obi-wan is going to feel bland compared to the fight they have in episode 3... its just a thought so try and be nice...
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...with a poop center. Incredible production values wrapped around the most painfully over-expository excuse for a screenplay GL has yet produced with a structure and pacing bordering on the hallucinogenic. And as for those character "motivations"- sure, OK, so this once good hearted boy becomes a child murderer in the space of how much time? Maybe AFTER the Mustafar confrontation I'd buy it but Jesus ************************ Sorry guys- Peace to all of you are digging it- as a long time fan I wish I shared your enthusiasm but it's a mess. A shiny, pretty mess. George, thanks for the memories.
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But if Lucas made his prequels with half the effects and double the writing and story quality, he could have easily pleased all fans. This film doesn't redeem the previous two, but rather shows how disposable they really are.
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My kids prefer Star Wars over LOTR. I am not saying that alone makes Star Wars a better movie franchise, I am just lending some support to the point of Star Wars being for kids. My kids haven't yet seen Revenge of the Sith, but they will in a couple of weeks when the hype dies down a bit.
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ola meesa bombad general jar jar binks,meesa no likey movie.meesa hating crunching dats da last ting weesa wanting.on second thought, no, meesa did like the movie. but meesa doing nothing.gungans get persa too da.gungans no giving up wit out a fite.weesa gotta grand army.Da day start okeday wit da sunnup. Me Munchen clams. Den, Boom! Maccaneks every which way, dey flyen, dey scooten. Count me outta dis one. Better dead here den dead in da core. Egads! What mesa sayin?" why meesa always the one?
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... it's still fun to come here for these high-larious talkbacks!
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Jar Jar Boinks - What you just said, was the most insanely idotic thing I have ever read. At no point, in your rambling, incoherent diatribe were you even close to ANYTHING that could be considered a rational thought. EVERYONE who read it is now DUMBER for having done so.....may GOD have mercy on your soul...
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May 19, 2005 1:03:11 PM CDT
Holy crap it's better than I ever dreamed it would be! SPOILERS
by barrelrider
..Just got back and put "A New Hope" DVD on. The part when Obi-Wan is talking about Anakin, and says quietly to himself "...and he was a good friend" - I swear, that line really means something special now, and I swear from the look on Alec Guiness's face, you'd think Lucas told him EVERYTHING which happens in the prequels. You can really see him debating what to say when Luke asks him about Vader. Anyway, on to Ep 3: I have NEVER scene the battle droids looking as real as they did in this film. General Grevous also looked incredibly realistic, most of the time - I loved his voice (AND cough), thought he was a fantastic character *****SPOILERS**** I particularly enjoyed the way Obi offed Grevous with, of all things, a blaster - then feels slightly ashamed and says "so uncivilised", a little homage to his description of sabers in Ep 4. I loved the way Yoda slices those two trooper's heads off after Palpatine carries out Order 66, I love the way Yoda uses the force to smack those two imperial guards into the wall. I LOVE the fight with Dooku, especially Ani and Obi's lines at the start - "this time, we'll take him together" "I was just going to say that". Artoo's scenes at the beginning are also first class - everybody cheered in our theater when he ejected out of Anakin's ship, everybody laughed when he was trying to hide from the super battledroids. Yes - the "nooooooo" line was kind of cheesy, but I felt that at that moment the film was really wearing its saturday-matinee influences on its sleeve, which I must add, is something which happens at several points in this film - people just don't neccesarily notice some of the other moments, like in the Mace/Palpatine fight, when Palpatine yells "unlimited power!" - why is nobody mentioning that line and its schlockiness? The "noooooo" line didn't bother me that much, but I agree that it was probably the most mystifying choice which Lucas made in filming Ep 3. But that's the point: after the enormously disappointing (for me) Eps 1 and 2, I can easily forgive a 5 second shot and single word of dialogue. Seriously, I think I can cope with that. When Order 66 was being carried out, I loved one of the planets they showed us, the one with the enormous flowers - it was so visually stunning, and quite unexpected. I loved the fact that they show the clonetroopers with their helmets off, and they all look like Jango. (Hey, anybody notice that on the DVD release of TESB, Boba's voice has been overdubbed by Temuera Morrison? I noticed it last night, pretty cool)The Buzz droids which rip up Obi Wan's were fantastic, I loved the way they obliterated R4! I loved the fact that we could see Clonetroopers floating about in space after their ships were blown up. I LOVED Ian McDiarmid in this film - he chews scenery like never before - exactly what you want from a Dark Lord of the Sith. His story about Darth Plagus the Wise was superb, and I guess that kind of makes him Anakin's dad, doesn't it? There was so much to like about that movie, my head is so full of what I've just seen, that I thiink I should read some of the TB, and try to remember some more stuff. But I would just like to say - I've had such high hopes for these prequels, and have always had to make excuses for them. But as far as I'm concerned, Ep 3 does not need to be excused in any way - it is simply a fantastic action film.
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1.General Grievous( the bad ass jedi killer..hahaha) gets is ass kicked in 2 minutes by obi-one.obi-one is a bad ass, but Grievous was taking on 5 jedi at a time in the cartoon wtf?
2.Yoda and Chewbacca are old friends. christ, even lamer then vader building c3po
3.Anakin was not a tragic hero who fell into darkness because of horrible events he tryed to prevent.He was just a freaken psycho, i mean shit, he went from being a jedi war hero to- let me kill my friends and a whole lot of kids to er..save padma..yea thats it! it was all to save padma. TURN ON YOUR FELLOW JEDI + KILL CHILDREN = SAVING PADMA. FUCKEN PSYCHO
4.Okay the first three are star wars fan boy complants, but somone tell me how the fuck obi-one took out vader because he was standing five fucking feet higher then anakin." its over anakin i have the high ground!
5.They never say what becomes of Jar-Jar binks.....hahahahah jk.
The Hard truth is that ROTS is about as good as the last two. so if you liked menace and clones you will like this one. however if the last two made you vomit in your mouth this one will too.
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For some reason I always had faith in Episode III, even though I and II were disappointments. My faith was not let down after I saw the midnight show last night. I did have moments when I rolled my eyes at some of the dialogue--this grand galactic epic and these tragic characters deserved more poignant and poetic lines than the mostly-flat ones in this script. But the chemistry between some of the characters; and the improved acting on the part of Hayden, Ewan, and Natalie; and the seductive lines uttered by the deceptive Palpatine/Sidious; Artoo's comic relief; and the incredible, breathtaking CGI...all made this my third favorite Star Wars film. To see some of my favorite characters finally get to fight side by side was the icing on the cake. Anakin's fall was tragic, and I felt the heartbreak that Obi-Wan and Padme felt. Anakin's turn, and his brutal transformation into that evil mechanical monster, may actually make me appreciate IV, V, and VI even more now...if that's possible.
You are a flawed writer and director, Mr. Lucas, but thank you for all of this. And thanks to all you fellow Star Wars fans too for helping to make this such a cool and memorable experience. May the force be with you, always. -
The opening crawl anyone?? There's no such thing as letter flying through space. Total BS. I saw through that at the age of 6 when I saw ANH for the first time.
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I love how Darth Vader screaming 'Nooooo' is unacceptable, but A Robot Man with a dial on his chest that he uses to modulate his voice, straight out of 1937's Flash Gordon vs. the Moon Men (see Ep. II) is AOK.
What you all really mean is: "Darth screaming 'Nooooo' ruins my childish fantasies about being Darth Vader and induces a panic that he is not 'cool', 'badass', or 'manly' enough", rather than acknowledging that he is a cartoonish evil villain in a fun bad space opera. Evil space villains twist their moustaches, cackle, talk to mirrors, explain the plot to James Bond, and scream 'Nooooo'. They just do. Most people speaking in the 3rd person are insane, but when Dr. Doom does it, it is part of the story. It is shameful that I even have to explain this to what should be a crowd familiar with the conventions of corny cinema and comic books.
I am looking forward to seeing this one now. Hated Ep. I, Mostly liked Ep. II. Low expectations hopefully will equal big fun. -
Anakin turn into Darth Vader? OHh wait, shit, He's Luke's Father!! OHHH now it makes sense!
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May 19, 2005 1:41:20 PM CDT
Opened in Kuwait today - saw it at a 3:45 afternoon showing - th
by spacesheik
I liked ROTS very much, it is not a perfect film, but it is still miles better than 1 and 2. The first 20 minutes people speak of were not my favorit, they were kinteic and action-packed but when youre fighting against dumb looking droids there really isnt much satisfaction in defeating them - it seemed like a retread of the PHANTOM MENACE opening minus the space battles. I loved the last 2/3 of the film though, when it gets dark, intense, and emotional. The final scenes will bring tears to your eyes and wil wanna make you wanna watch the original trilogy again.
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I just wanted to say that it is both gratifying and sad to see the last Star Wars. It feels as though part of my life has ended and now the hope and expectation has come to a close. All of the pepole out there that hate the new films can at least remember a time when they were excited about them. And I have twenty years of theat on my back friends and nieghbors, as I'm sure many of you do. I loved the last one, if for no other eason than I have wanted to know what hapened and now I do. For the fans, the rabid right down to the merely crazy; I love all of you and I wish we could all get together for a beer. All of you, take care. It's been fun as hell and now it's over.
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I thought it was him yelling "Weesa free!"
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Saw it last night/this morning depending on how you look at it. Anyway, it was class. Palpatine was superb the whole way through, Ewan McGregor was a blast and Hayden really nailed his character. The love scenes seemed much more natural and they over with very quickly anyway. Opening space battle was good, as was the more intense [/Lucas] duel with Dooku. CGi was very good, especially Anakin and Obi Wan fighting Grievous's Magna guards. Yoda vs Palpatine was great - I loved the contortions on Yoda's face as he's desperately trying to block/absorb Palptine's lightning. Obi Wan vs Anakin was superb. Also, what the hell was all that complaining over Vader's "Noooooo!" at the end? He barely screams - its a whimper, which is even more effective because it illustrates that he can barely put his anguish into words. Overall, it was a great movie. Certainly some people will enjoy some parts and others won't, but I really don't see how anyone could truly hate this film. It was a great end to the prequel trilogy and a fantastic lead-in to Episode 4.
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May 19, 2005 1:55:07 PM CDT
"Senator [Coleman], in everything I said about Iraq I turned out
by bushsux
I saw this film, it really kicked some ass. By the way, you gotta love that George Galloway, the Republicans try to frame him and he completely kicks the shit out of them on national tv.
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... made me see the humanity that Luke saw in him. And it was more realistic now that Vader returns back to the light with Lukes help in ROTJ.
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With a binary sunset. I couldn't ask for abetter ending for this saga.
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But really, it doesn't end with a binary sunset - it ends with dancing teddy bears.
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Hahahaha..... wow! i feel good now
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Hey, has anyone seen dePalma's Phantom of the Paradise? I was struck at how similar the Phantom's costume was to Darth Vader, and this came out in 74, three years before Star Wars. I wonder if there was any influence there.
Also, i was watching Return of the Jedi(the original version) this past weekend, and when Jabba throws luke down in the Rancor Pit, you can hear Boba Fett chuckling in the background. What was cool was that young Boba Fett, in AOTC used the same exact chuckle when he and Django were being chased by Obi Wan in the asteroid field. -
i just got back. i'm stunned. floored. emotionally drained. it was seriously fucking brilliant. i don't know who the guy was who made the last two pieces of crap, but this was a masterpiece. Lucas, i dub thee REDEEMED.
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Lucas states in the Star Wars DVD that the Emperor desired a more powerful apprentice because Vader's injuries diminshed his ability to interact with the Force. Hence, the discovery of his progeny provided the perfect solution to the dilemma. However, with cloning a dominant theme in the series, why did the Emperor not obtain a genetic sample from Anakin and clone him following his defeat. If, as it is narrated in AOTC, cognitive functions can be manipulated to create more compliant soldiers, then why not dispense with the seduction of Anakin altogether and create a clone after his demise at Mustafar that is both powerful and obedient in his unyielding allegiance to the Emperor. Ergo, the conclusion of ROTJ would have far more emotional resonance if an Anakin clone, manufactured for fealty, turned against the Emperor to save the son of the original Anakin.
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May 19, 2005 2:36:06 PM CDT
A NEW HOPE is the BEST FANTASY FILM ever created. Saying that th
by battery
"Noooooooooooooooooooo!"
-Darth Fucking Vader (2005)
"Is Pame all right?"
- Darth Fucking Vader (2005)
"I love medichlorians in my ass."
- Annie Skyfucker (2005)
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When I saw it last nite there was no "SHE DIED OF A BROKEN HEART"...there was only "SHE HAS LOST THE WILL TO LIVE". Anybody care to explain if there are different cuts going to like digital projection theaters or whatever or am I fuckin nuts?????
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the one i saw said "She has lost the will to live" too. so, you just might be nuts. ;-)
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The biggest problem I have with what Star Wars has become is that when Ep. 4 was made, it was a fun reworking of old scifi serials like Flash Gordon, Which was fine. But as the series has evolved there have been those (principally Lucas himself and Bill Moyers) who try to hold it up to the great myths like Beowulf, Arthurian legend, or the Nibelungenlied. The hakneyed dialogue and hole-ridden plot of ALL the movies, original trilogy and prequels, does not bear such a comparison. Lucas' greatest mistake with Star Wars is that he started out making pulp, then began believing his own hype and finished trying to make Art with a capital A.
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Saw it at midnight last night! I left the theater very happy! The movie met all my expectaions and I had a great time at the movies! IT ROCKED. PERIOD. Thats all I can say.
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literally just walked in from seeing the ROTS and have to say it was up there with ANY from the O.T.
Haydn & Ewan were immense proving it was lucas shit script that cocked up the phantom menace and any scene in attack that needed any acting ability.
jesus, i loved this film and cant stop thinking just how damn sorry i feel for anakin even though i realise that hes an evil prick! anyway, just wanted to share that with you. As a last thought justhow gaddamn upsetting is it that star wars is at an end? im gutted. totally. still, cant wait for the dvd releases!! whoo hoo! -
YODA LOSING TO THE EMPEROR IS BULL$!^^...
AND ALSO..ALL YODA SAYS IS HE'S GOING INTO EXHILE..."THATS IT ???..HOW DOES HE CHOOSE THE PLANET?...HOW DOES HE GET THERE? (TO DAGOBAH)
LUCAS, THIS WAS VERY CHEAP AND POOR ON YOUR COUNT..YOU SHOW EVERYONE ELSE AT THEIR NEW LOCATIONS..BUT NOT YODA...THAT TO ME WAS WHY IT SUCKED..
THEY SAY ALL WOULD BE SHOWED AND EXPLAINED...WRONG!!!!!!!
I will say this..R2D2..thank you my little friend for at least making an effort..your kewl to go..
BUT MASTER YODA..IM SORRY YOUR CREATOR IS SUCH AN A$$...
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Just a few points...
-The story (if not the dialogue) was outstanding.
-I finally was made to actually give a damn about the characters.
-Tragic and draining.
-After most movies, I usually have a good grasp of how I felt about the film. After SWIII, it's going to take a few more viewings for me to be able articulate how much I loved this movie.
-My one major criticism is the scene in which Anakin/Vader is informed of Padme's death. If I had the time, money, and a gun, I would rip out and destroy that scene from every copy of the movie. It was the cheesiest, most unintelligably stupid scene from an otherwise effectively dramatic movie I have ever seen. It took me completely out of the last 5 minutes.
-Special editions be damned, I am now forced to buy the friggin' OT box set.
So my order of best to worst SW chapters is as follows:
V
VI
III
IV
Waste of time and money II
Waste of time and money I -
Just a few points...
-The story (if not the dialogue) was outstanding.
-I finally was made to actually give a damn about the characters.
-Tragic and draining.
-After most movies, I usually have a good grasp of how I felt about the film. After SWIII, it's going to take a few more viewings for me to be able articulate how much I loved this movie.
-My one major criticism is the scene in which Anakin/Vader is informed of Padme's death. If I had the time, money, and a gun, I would rip out and destroy that scene from every copy of the movie. It was the cheesiest, most unintelligably stupid scene from an otherwise effectively dramatic movie I have ever seen. It took me completely out of the last 5 minutes.
-Special editions be damned, I am now forced to buy the friggin' OT box set.
So my order of best to worst SW chapters is as follows:
V
VI
III
IV
Waste of time and money II
Waste of time and money I -
Every actor involved up the ante and George was perfect in all facets. This is a film that must be seen multiple times. I thank everyone that worked on this movie for the fantastic job they did.
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ROTS was a poor movie. im surprised by so many who cant see that, maybe who dont wanna see it.
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Lemmi -- who's to say they didn't build it in five years and it's been trolling around space blowing shit up for 15?
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The caps lock is not a toy. Who needs a detailed travel log of Yoda's journey to Dagobah? It's better that it's seen for the first time in TESB. THAT made the movie suck for you? That's a shame.
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A little background...SW fan from the age of 6 when I saw A New Hope with my parents for the first time. Had the first action figures, watched the Holiday Spectacular (live on tv), blah blah blah...you can figure out the rest.
I saw the movie at midnight with my fiancee, which was our first SW film together. I loved it. No reservations. I thought the dialogue, the FX, the plotting, and everything was as good as anything in the OT. Yes, there are some clunky lines, but hell, the OT had clunky lines, characters, plot developments, but we thought it was Shakespeare in the 70's and 80's because we saw the film only in the theater and then had to just daydream about it to see it again when it left the theater. Looking back on the OT I still love it, but I see many of the same problems as with the new trilogy. But I am so tired of some of the illogical criticisms of the new films, such as:
Hayden doesn't look evil enough- Um, I'm a history teacher, and I'll tell you that most dictators/tyrants don't look like physically imposing badasses. Lenin? Napoleon? Hitler? Mussolini? How many people would have pegged Hitler in the early 30's as a believable tyrant he would become. Hell, Stalin was physically imposing, but quite ignorant.
The technology of the new movies is greater than that of the old:
How about Cuba today? With Castro they have the same cars they did in the 50's and 60's. With the Empire taking over after the fallen Republic, what kind of damage would that have done to the economy? The Republic was like the glory days or Rome before the dictators take power. Matter of fact, that's what Lucas attended the metaphor to be originally.
Silly technical bitching- Anakin and Obi-Wan can't surf on lava. Did you find that unbelievable while they were having their laser sword battle? -
Star Wars ANH is fucking ART, Darth Tenor. Ralph McQuarrie, John Williams, Lucas (at that stage) the cast, etc. These are immensely talented people who created ART. The stars aligned.
Bill Moyers was right to talk about the myth aspect of that type of storytelling. It had pacing. It had grandeur. It had simple compositions. It had archetypes with a twist. Rarely does something that good happen.
Now we've got these three films. One man in control of everything. It's how lines like "Noooooooo!" get in the script. And how Obi-Wan rides a giant hela monster. Lucas has great ideas and he was excellent in his prime. Now it's about making hela monster toys for kids.
Good day to you.
-S -
Okay, so the FIRST Death Star takes 19 years or so to be constructed, tested , and fully operational. That's fine, it was new technology, hell, it takes 10 years to build an interstate exchange here in Austin. But that aside, I'm sure it would be faster to build a second one once you have all the kinks worked out from building the first prototype (or mold). Also, you have to remember, the first Death Star was 100% complete battle station. The 2nd looked half complete, that's why the rebels were so surprised when it could actually fire. So it does make sense time wise.
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Just a thought, but would CLONED midicalorians (sp?) work right? You could clone the body... but would it still have the ability to use the force as someone that was created BY the force as an original? I've never read the expanded universe, but I know at some point Palpatine moves his spirit into a cloned body of himself. But something goes wrong, like it start to decompose.
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Give me a break...
You are saying New Hope was art because Lucas didn't create anything in the movie that could easily be marketed? This just shows your willfull ignorance or general ignorance because when ANH was released there was nothing like the marketing in existence that we have today. Everything in ANH was marketed to me as a kid within two years after it first came out. Obi-Wan rides that hela monster in 2005, but in 1978 I was buying the Dewback for the stormtroopers to ride. So what is your point then? And Empire? They marketed the hell out of the movie. So I guess the AT-ATs were pure Lucas toy marketing genius. Enough of the pointless griping, already. -
At least Episode 1 had some shift in dynamics in the third act. We went from loud to quiet. There was a building pace. Not so in Sith.
And for "Activeminded" -- there is such a thing as a willing suspension of disbelief being destroyed by piling it on too thick. Everyone takes light sabers to be believable and wants to see them. A battle while surfing on lava is absurd. For those of us with powers of discernment, that type of thing is tantamount to a skydiving snowboarder with tattoos drinking Mountain Dew and listening to rap metal. It's lame. -
I mean, even R4 didn't survive. Damn Lucas, you're cold as ice...when you're not shoving cotton candy up our assholes.
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May 19, 2005 3:48:09 PM CDT
My interest died with Phantom Menace and was buried with Attack
by kdraines
Today is both the happiest and saddest day in Star Wars history. It's the saddest because yet another pile of garbage is going to make serious bank. It's the happiest because we won't have to tolerate this dreck any longer.
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May 19, 2005 3:51:35 PM CDT
If you can't tell the difference between the original trilogy an
by battery
Please don't try to break into film. Spare the rest of us.
Especially you, "Activeminded." Anyone who thinks the Hela Monster is equivalent to the Dewback deserves to watch these pieces of tripe. You've proven you have no taste. Calling someone ignorant to make yourself feel better about how crappy these films are only makes you seem more desperate. Enjoy your crapfests.
Signing out. -
I've read the messages for half an hour, and I got bored. I was wondering if the non haters agree with me.
When padme is giving birth, the medical droid says that Padme is dying, but there is nothing wrong with her. Surely she is dying of a broken heart. (yes I know that you can't die of a broken heart medically, but there's no such thing as the force blah blah blah). Anakins dreams of her dying are of course preminitions, meaning he was fated to turn to the dark side. When deciding to step in a save palpatine, there would be a chance he would learn the power that Palpatine spoke of. I can imagine Anakin thinking that he could still learn this power to save people from Palpatine while he was incarcerated. Obviously he felt that he had to step in when Mace decided to kill him. ANYWAY....
I thought to myself that the one thing Anakin wanted to stop, which led to his final turn to the dark side, was to save Padme. All he really had to do was stay on the light side and carry on being a loving husband. No broken heart. I guess it's ironic. He could have stopped it from happening from just staying the same.
It almost touches on one of the themes of Donnie Darko, our fates are already decided for us.
Maybe this is obvious, but I had not read anything else up here so I thought I would throw in my 10p's worth!
I loved the film, felt empty afterwards, especially as one of my best friends is in hospital with not much hope of a decent life....
Anyway, this is my first post, so leave me alone. -
People are saying things like 'Shut up man! It's a new Star Wars movie, what's not to love??' This is a deluded comment. Fine, be wowed over the visuals, I know I was for most of the movie. However, in time the 'wow' factor of those visuals will fade, and then what's left over? A poor script? Yes. Poor performances? Yes, mostly. Comments about people refusing to see the hammy acting in the OT are crazy because I can watch the OT and not cringe once at a line (well...maybe Luke's 'power converters' line in ANH.....). It's because the characters are well written and acted. Ah fuck, I don't know why I'm even bothering with this. Maybe I should have watched ROTS with more of an open mind, but I'm sure that would only be possible if you hadn't seen TPM and AOTC. All of George's important ideas for the PT have ended up in ROTS. If only they could have spread more over into AOTC (I could live with TPM as a more standalone movie). I wish Anakin's turn had happened at the end of AOTC. I wish AOTC had been all about the Clone War (going off the title you'd assume it was) and that Dooku and Grievous had been in the entire movie and been effective villains. Oh god I don't know. In the words of suited Vader - 'NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!'
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I love the defense of this movie that it is just "space opera" and not supposed to be that good. You are ultimately agreeing with those who say it is weak. Well, there is obviously some deep psychologicaly need for you to adore this film right now, so keep on, but maybe quiet down here a bit.
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How could Lucas let such an obvious film flib happen? Here's his greatest masterpiece of which millions of people will see at least twice...
When Padme tells Anakin she will not die during childbirth, she calls him... HAYDEN! -
Just got back from RotS. Here is my impression of the movie:
Not all I'd hoped it would be; some things were disappointing, while some things I think were fixed from the novelization that bothered me.
The major problem with the movie is that, the way I see it, it's a great ending to the trilogy that should have been. TPM and AotC seem like they're part of a whole different set of movies from RotS, and it makes the entire Prequel Trilogy seem all the more disappointing. I can't ever imagine going back and watching all three of them and get the same feeling of 'completeness' that I do from watching the Original Trilogy.
The acting was much better in this film; though no one's going to win an Oscar. Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiarmid stand out of the crowd as far as acting goes, and felt a bit of Guiness in McGregor's Obi-Wan this time around. Hayden Christensen is much better as Anakin, even though the script fails him around the middle. Natalie Portman has about an eighth of the screentime she did in the last two movies, which is probably for the best, even though the dialogue coach Lucas FINALLY brought on-board seemed to have helped a little.
The CG, of course, was phenomenal, and the whole movie had a much darker quality to it that helped link it to the OT, but it wasn't quite enough. The ships and particularly the space battle in the beginning are cool, but not the 'sight to behold' that some have claimed. In fact, the space battle portion of the opening scene was much shorter that I thought it was going to be, and it didn't evoke the same feelings that the final battle in Return of the Jedi did. This was just a whiz-bang shoot-em-up scene that amounted to little more than eye-candy.
The editing was both a blessing and a curse to this film. They cut a lot of the things from the novelization that I didn't like (Anakin and Padme coming up with the name Leia together, the Senators and their petition against Palpatine, stuff like that), but they also made the film feel thin and fast. It does go by very quickly, even though there is a decidedly nothing going on in the middle act. And I mean that; the back-and-forth between Palpatine and the Jedi Council, with Anakin in the middle, is almost completely forgettable.
The central theme to this movie is, of course, Anakin's fall to the dark side and eventual transformation into the mechanical Darth Vader. Unfortunately, it's made evident that this couldn't all be accomplished in one film, and that's why I feel like this would have been a great ending to a different trilogy of films. His 'fall' is so fast that the word is accurate: he falls right into his role as Darth Vader, with nothing in-between. One moment he's telling Palpatine he wants to kill him, the next he's killing a Jedi Master and bowing to the new Emperor, pledging his loyalty. This wasn't even fleshed out as well as it was in the novel, leaving one spinning at the sudden change of heart.
Alright, let's get down to the nitty-gritty here:
Things I liked:
- The duels were pretty cool. With all the hype over the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel, I wasn't disappointed. The one duel I didn't care all that much for, the Yoda/Sidious duel, I'll get to in a minute.
- The Emperor. Ian McDiarmid brought back all the cool evillness from his brief appearance in RotJ. Very nice.
- The Obi-Wan/Anakin friendship. Should have been fleshed out over the entire PT instead of just in this movie, but Lucas finally showed us why Obi-Wan considered Anakin such a good friend.
- Anakin's 'death'. Very intense. The scene of him burning on the riverbed was awesome, and the reconstruction scene was phenomenal.
Things I didn't like: (This might get nit-picky. Sorry!)
- Mace Windu. I've liked Sam Jackson is just about every other role I've seen him in; why do I hate Mace so much that when Palpy was shocking the hell out of him it brought a smile to my face? I dunno, but I dug his getting fried. Good riddance.
- General Grievous. I know a lot of people dig him, and he looked pretty cool. But his voice was obnoxious, and ultimately he was defeated way too easily by Obi-Wan for me to believe that he was a realistic threat against the Jedi. He was so much cooler in the Clone Wars cartoons.
- Yoda/Sidious duel. So much was cut out of this that I feel it did a real disservice to Yoda. Why did he end up escaping? You have no idea, because Lucas cut the whole segment where Palpatine calls in the legion of Clonetroopers. Yoda gets knocked down, then all of a sudden he's escaping through some cable duct. Some of it was cool visually, but I felt kind of cheated.
- Hayden in the Vader suit. Vader looked thin and weak, and I did not buy it when he broke off of the table. And later, when he's standing on the Star Destroyer with Palpatine, he crosses his arms. No! Vader tucked his thumbs into his belt! If I remember that, why can't Lucas! Do some directing, damn you!
- Padme dies of a broken heart. She 'loses the will to live'. What utter crap! That's the stupidest 'twist' ever. Not only does it take away from the impact of the choke scene, but it also takes away from the whole sentiment that Anakin was responsible for her death. NOT TO MENTION the fact that, hey, Padme, you just had kids! You don't have the will to stick around and take care of them? Then you're not worth it, anyway! How utterly selfish an end they gave her. I absolutely hated that.
- They cut the Qui-Gon scene, and that was a real disappointment. It was basically the one thing that kep TPM from being completely useless, which it now is and forever will be.
- This is just my personal preference, but I would have appreciated it a little bit if Luke had been made more important somehow, like Yoda saying "Wow, he's strong in the Force!" or something like that. But no, his importance is completely unmentioned. Oh well.
Ultimately, this is a decent ending to what has been a lackluster and disappointing trilogy. I feel that Lucas didn't so much as redeem himself and his prequels as he finally figured it out, too little too late. Everything that came before this was superfluous; as a matter of fact, you could watch this film alone and never see the preceding films, and you would know all you needed to go into the OT. Hell, you really don't need the PT at all to watch the OT; we haven't had it for years and loved Star Wars anyway. -
One where Vadar screams Dooooh! instead of No. One where Obi Wan eats some Bantha fodder he's found logged in his beard. Oh, and one where Obi Wan is holding Leia up to Padme, and she pees on her mom just before she dies, thus showing that robot the REAL meaning of a broken heart...
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Thats what I thought at first too, but then figured she just said Ani
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previous post.."Revenge of the Sith is better than Return of the King.
by Rant Breath 2005-05-18 23:26:03
We'll see if it's recognized come oscar time."
you are kidding right? Its not a bad film, and it will win visual effects obviously, but thats it. It wont even be nominated for Best Picture, acting, etc..
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Anyone else notice that Grevious walked and held himself simular to how Sebulba moved around? ALso, there was something about how Sebulba had superior reflexes with his extremities which allowed him to pod race, which would extend to how this half "Dug/droid" is able to fight so well. Warp 11, the really popular Star Trek band just came out with a great new song called "Your Evil Annie". It's is a funny hard rocking song about Anakin going evil! Check it: http://www.seriousmagic.com/_Karl/Evil%20Annie.mp3
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Perhaps they did not start construction on the second Deathstar only after the first had been destroyed. Maybe they started work on it before that two one day have a fleet of deathstars...or at least a few.
Or maybe they simply realize the design flaw that a friggin hole on the surface could be exploited so one tiny bomb could destroy the whole thing????? nd they said oh fuck...we better start on a new one incase anyone finds out about the flaw. -
May 19, 2005 4:27:26 PM CDT
"plot holes are for whiny nitpicker". classic apologist logic...
by so sorry
that sums it up right there.
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How can the Death Star construction even be an issue? Either construction on the second Death Star was started a few years after the beginning of the first one, perhaps leaving it five years behind the first one on the construction schedule, or after 15 years of systematically enslaving all the systems of the galaxy, Palpy can squeeze a hell of a lot more indentured labor from his subjects in a shorter amount of time. My point is that treating it as a "loophole" or an inconsistency is showing a lack of imaginative flexibility on your parts, not a flaw in Lucas's story. Utilize some of that suspension of disbelief you claim to have, or better yet - just use your imaginations. Just because every single detail hasn't been given a short story in a "Tales From The (blank)" anthology or been mentioned in a technical manual doesn't mean it's a goof on anyone's part. The same people tend to gripe about the lack of a full explanation or authorized biography of throwaway names or aliens given two seconds of screen time. You people are spoiled - spoiled rotten. Bizarrely, the same people will whine about "too much exposition" when it comes to the Machiavellian politics of the saga. "I don't want to hear boring stuff about senators and emergency laws - I want to know all about Sifo-Dyas! And Aurra Singh! No? Lucas raped my quasi-adulthood!"
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The reason the Wookies are there is to show that they where smart enough to see threw the clones and have allegiance with the jedi and save Yoda from being wiped out like the other Jedi, it was very pleasent linking device and handled 50 times better than I thought it would.
Padmes death isee as combination of things first the choke, second giving birth to the twins, third the death of anakin as a human somehow I believe part of her died when he became vader.
Any here ever loose a lim, let cut both you legs of then give you robot legs and see how you do your first time walking.
Freaking shots of Coruscant were freaking gorgeous and he moved the camera in way he hasnt since 1138.
Simply amazed that there was nothing but John Williams during the final shot on Tattoine, I was expecting some speech from McGregor, but alas George has learned some restraint.
Jimmy Smits was quite decent this time around,
Portman I think did her best but I think one line tainted the thing for us all and we all know what it is -
Saw it last night at 12:20 am. I was impressed and disappointed at the same time. I rank it on my list at number 4 out of the six. ANH will always be number one in my heart but number 2 as a film. TESB is number 1 as far a movie goes though. ROTJ is number 3. TPM is number 6 only because of Ray Park
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"Excitement. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things." - Master Yoda
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Why do the people who hate Menace and Clones bother seeing Sith? Seems that most of you now hate that too. I don't get it. I mean, I liked Lethal Weapon so I saw Lethal Weapon 2 (and liked it). So when Lethal Weapon 3 came out I went and saw that as well, but I thought it stunk the place up...so you know what? I didn't go see Lethal Weapon 4. To this day I haven't seen it, because I just didn't/don't care about it. AND if there was a fan base with a website I sure as hell wouldn't go there and make posts about how the series was ruined and the fans that liked it are retarded and blah blah blah.
So, if anyone can help explain to me what the hell is going on nowadays please let me know. I just don't know why these people are wasting their time here if they haven't been a fan since 1983 or before. -
"Oh that's right, he just up and vanished like a fart!" -- Warden, Shawshank Prision
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Because I WAS a fan since 1979, when my dad took me at the age of 2 to the rerelease of Episode 4. I was willing to endure the Gungans, the awkward courtship of Anakin and Padme in the field with the walking testicles, and a silly messianic birth story to witness the birth of an iconic character. And instead he stomped around like Peter Boyle in Young Frankenstein because Lucas didn't know how to pace his denouement. I should repeat that I thought the movie was okay, if uneven, until the very end which totally disappointed me. And yes, I know "Lucas has a vision!" So did Ed Wood. So did Hal Warren. Vision does not a master storyteller make.
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Didn't Suck:
first 15 minutes
last 30 minutes
Anytime Yoda was on screen.
Sucked:
everything else -
May 19, 2005 4:45:24 PM CDT
If Anakin is such a great Jedi, why does he keep losing limbs an
by matthooper8
Just curious.
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Better than I expected actually. I knew everything that was going to happen, but still loved the film. When I walked out of The Phantom Menace, I remember thinking "There were some really cool parts in that movie", but hated the "kiddie" elements. A little less so with Clones, but that movie was slow paced with few too little "oh shit!" type scenes. Sith was great from beginning to end. The music, the effects, the improved acting skills of the cast, it all came together this time. You people saying that Vader's "Noooo!" is laughable are really reaching. No one in the sold-out theater I was in laughed. Do some of you people make shit up to be entertaining or to sound above everyone else? I expected the Vader scene to be horrible (and warned my wife beforehand), but it certainly wasn't the terrible "ruined the movie" delivery I was expecting at all. Far from it. If you hated this Star Wars movie, Sorry 'bout that dude. At least it was only 9 bucks. Me, I plan on repeat viewings (something I didn't even do for Clones)....
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because he wanted Palpy alive so he could learn the dark side. If Mace would have whacked Palpy Anakin would have no where to turn to learn how to save Padme. Mace not following Jedi code had nothing to do with Anakin taking him out. So actually that was a nice little scene to further show the conflict within Anakin. Plus Mace died cool and Palpy freakin rocked that scene.
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Took the day off work, and damn if it wasn't worth it! I haven't read any of the previous posts cos I don't want any losers nringing me down off the Star Wars high that I should have had after Menace.
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May 19, 2005 4:56:34 PM CDT
Leia As Lukes Sister Was Just A Way To Resolve The Love Triangle
by daveh
I remember reading an interview with Gary Kurtz who produced Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back. He said that Leia was never written as his sister originally. And that after Jedi ended the original script would end with them going off to find the 'other' that Yoda speaks off on the other side of the galaxy hence the never to be episodes 7, 8 and 9.
Brother and sister was a clumsy way to resolve the Luke, Han and Leia love triangle. Have you ever seen the cut part from Empire when Leia passionately kisses Luke? It's in the Empire trailer.
Gary Kurtz was not asked to come back for Return Of The Jedi as he was not a yes man to George. He offered ideas and told George when he was being stupid. In Jedi the lack of Kurtz is painfully obvious.
This is why Rick McCallum is just as guilty of the crap new films as George. He's just a yes man. "Yes George that cgi looks great George."
I hated Phantom Menace, Thought Clones was ok. Saw Sith last night and thought it was good. Nothing more. The bar was set way too high after Empire Strikes Back unfortunately. -
I loved RofS!!!
It is EVERYTHING I wanted it to be. I loved the opening space battle, I loved that Artoo is a valuable member of the team (and trying to hide the com link in one of his compartments still makes me smile).
I thought the writing was well done and well thought out.
I loved that Obi Wan and Anakin graduated from the paternal relationship in AofC to the fraternal one in this film.
Were General Grievous and Yoda's visit to Kashyyk superfluous? You're damn right they were! Were they necessary to get Obi Wan and Yoda away from the Jedi Temple. Yep!
Were Natalie Portman Jimmy Smits both criminally underused? U betcha. But the work they turned in was first rate. I love the scene where she looks across the city at the Jedi Temple and Anakin looks across the city to the apartment and wordless you can feel the confusion, the lonliness, the emptiness of their situations.
Did it break my heart to see the camera travel down to the japoor snippet that Anakin carved for Padme back in Episode I her hand? Of course it did.
I loved the clumsy frankensteinish way that the armored Darth Vader took his first steps. I loved Vader screaming "Noooo" in a VERY comic book way.
Did Anakin turn to easily to the dark side? Did you see "AotC"? Where he slaughtered the Tusken Raiders and took his first steps to the dark side? Where he had dreams of his mother being tortured and promised his future wife that someday he would be powerful enough to STOP PEOPLE FROM DYING? So don't you think that he would do ANYTHING to be able to save his wife when he started having similar dreams about her? I'm sorry, but the whole point is that Anakin can't let go, and will do anything to hold on to things and people.
The medic droid in my screening did not say that Padme was dying of a broken heart, but instead that she had lost the will to live.
I was disappointed that I did not hear or see Qui Gon Jinn in this film.
And John Williams score seemed to be a little too cut and pasted from previous films. But those are small complaints. The overwhelming satisfaction that I take away from this film, easily outweighs those piddling things.
I felt very meloncholy when I left the theater. I, of course, will see this film several more times before it leaves theaters, but I will never have the exquisite feeling of seeing a new Star Wars film (flawed or not)for the first time.
But for now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to get a Star Wars slurpee and head back to the theater.
Yippee! -
Ain't it cool? That is the question. The simple answer I have to say is YES! By far the best of the new Trilogy. Loved the dark and brooding atmosphere as it built in the cinema and noticed that the annoying little bastards, sorry, the lovely little children, slowly stopped laughing at the oil-spraying R2 antics as the darkness of this movie became more apparent. By the time Obi-Wan had cut short Anakin's tap dancing career, I could hear the first of the worried sniffles from the youngest viewers. Good work Mr. Lucas, that's the right way to get into a kid's mind. Scare 'em!
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The dialogue made me cringge at points, the performances were a little flat, but I was blown away by this movie. From the first scene I realized that this would be something totally different than the previous prequels. The agony and sadness of the audience as they wathced the movie wind down was palpable. I had no idea George Lucas would make something this visceral and unflinching. The tie-ins, the revelatory moments, this was everything I wanted and more, and I'm not even a hardcore fan. The highest praise I can really give this movie is that it made me want to watch the Original Trilogy as soon as I got a chance. I haven't wanted to watch it in years. ROTK was good enough, but I was completely floored by ROTS. I hope everyone else has the experience I did.
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I just got back from the theater. Aside from exploring some of the darker aspects of human nature, it's a bit bland and uninspiring, but i liked it nonetheless. Also, I ran into George Lucas and he told me that he will do episodes VII, VIII and VIIII.
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I couldn't agree with you more.
And nice to point out the line from Clones, about someday stopping people from dying. Anakin's quest for absolute power and his inability to let go are setup perfectly right there. -
... I couldn't help but notice that Anakin raped the younglings' childhood.
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I've been there since the begining: This was one of the best Star Wars Movies ever. It all goes back to one thing and the lession that the Haters refuse to lern. In order to grow, you must learn to let go. 1977 magic of your childhood ican NEVER be replicated. This was a good movie, with great acting. As for the morons who said "WHAT ABOUT LIEA'S MEMORIES" Leia never SIAAD she met her mother, just had flashes of feelings and images. Liea DID see here mother before she died. And she knew she was adopted.
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[...]
In the Star Wars universe, the Sith are members of a self-centered secret society that has been passing down its knowledge for thousands of years. The religion revels in death and destruction. War is its sacrament, death stars and war ships its cathedrals. This is one of the central threads that runs throughout the entirety of Star Wars lore.
For over a decade, I have been studying civilization and time and time again in my research I run into the occult, secret societies and, at the top of it all, the Order of Death, known by the public as the order of Skull and Bones.
[... read the rest ...]
http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/darth_nwo.htm
[... and check the new spoof video!! ...]
http://www.infowars.com/video/clips/starwars/wm_bb.htm
YOU OWE IT TO YOURSELF JEDI COUNCIL -- MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU!!! -
I thought it was really good, made Ep. I & II look like bags of puke. So much action, not near the amount of cheesy dialogue and wooden performances as the prior two movies (hey, look back at Ep. IV-VI...those ain't Charlie Kaufman scripts or DeNiro performances).
I think the reason why so many people are being critical is that Star Wars is such a unique film experience. Nobody went to the OT films because of the great acting and dialogue, air-tight story and stellar direction -- these are all things we look for in new movies that come out. We liked Star Wars because it was really fucking cool and unique. It took us to another place.
If you want the acting, the scrpits, and all that critics hold dear, go find those movies. But don't call the Star Wars movies shit, because they are entertaining...something Hollywood is having a hard time producing on screen lately. -
May 19, 2005 5:34:38 PM CDT
What happened to the dope that always used to insist that Palpat
by fluffyunbound
Has he showed up to admit that he had absolutely no idea what he was talking about? I don't feel like reading this whole thread to see if he has made an appearance. Naturally it's probably one of those times that someone claims they will show up to admit that they were wrong, but then can't be found.
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In Return of the Jedi,how can Leia tell Luke she remembers her mother (her REAL mother, not mrs. Organa) as someone who was sad when she actually saw her for about 5 seconds right after being born?
Was it because the force is really good for memory retention? Or was it because of...wait for it...sloppy writing? The guy can't even be bothered to respect his own story, for fuck's sake.
Otherwise I'm pretty happy with episode III (except for "NOOOOOOOO!") Palpatine is great, the killing off of the Jedi is very sad and touching, Nathalie Portman is wasted on crappy dialogue, Anakin and Ben actually get along (for a while) and Palpatine is great (thank the Drak Side for Ian McDiarmid ), even Sam Jackson is interesting to watch (I'm pissed because he's great in everything he's in except for Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones). No sense crying over spilled milk, but that being said, let's cry over spilled milk: this movie was good enough to make me wish the other two prequels (but especially Phantom) were not the pile of dung that they were. Imagine the force of this movie if the build-up to it had actually been worth watching?
Here's hoping they do a Rogue Squadron tv series, now.
Sidesimon -
May 19, 2005 5:43:53 PM CDT
Amazing DARTH VADER outtake - Watch before Lucas shuts it down!!
by yojimbo jones
You have to advance about two minutes in to the clip to see an exclusive Darth Vader outake that George Lucas has never shown the world before. It's shocking, too bad it wasn't used in Ep.3. It must have been smuggled out of ILM, watch it before Lucas sics his Stormtroopers and Forces it off the internet...
http://www.infowars.com/video/clips/starwars/wm_bb.htm -
Is there a page where I can read more about Gary Kurtz's discussion of what was changed after Empire Strikes Back.
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At least that's what I'd prefer to characterize it as. I thought Jedi was a weak way to finish the original trilogy and, like a lot of fans who grew up with Star Wars, was salivating for the first and last installments of what Lucas claimed would be a nine-movie saga. Despite having been somewhat let down by Jedi, I let myself get pretty excited about Menace (and those preview images did offer a lot to be excited about). But the movie itself puzzled me with how bad and very un-Star Wars it was. So I adjusted my expectations for Clones. As a result, I wasn't as disappointed in that film as a lot of people were. I didn't bother to see it more than once, but I didn't have much bad to say about it other than Hayden and Portman seemed to be sleep acting. Still, the fun parts of Clones got me a little excited about Star Wars again. And the dark parts (like the very well-described post-sandperson gang-bang slaughter of the village) made me think the prequel trilogy was evolving in the opposite direction of the OT... the films becoming more sophisticated and adult as the storyline progressed. Clones wasn't a very good movie, but it set the stage for what could be one. So I let myself remain optimistic about Sith. Then I saw The Clone Wars series and loved it. Wow, was it good! Now I was really hopeful that, since this was "official Star Wars canon," the creative direction was indeed taking a turn for the better. I went into that theater for Sith ready to really love Star Wars again. And I left more disappointed than I probably should be. The buddy-buddy relationship of Anakin and Obi Wan at the beginning of the film is completely out of place. Nothing from Clone Wars justifies them being that close or respectful of one another. The lightsaber fights... from Dooku to Grievouos to Palapatine... were all excellent "Wahoo" moments. But they were fleeting. Anakin's turn feels sudden despite the groundwork set up in Clones because the awkward tension and isolation the character was feeling from everyone but Padme and Palpatine at the end of that movie is essentially wiped away for the first part of Sith. Grievous was under utilized almost as badly as Maul (and Boba Fett before him). Especially after the way he was depicted in Clone Wars. Vader's cry of anguish was laughable and completely took me out of what should have been the coolest, most atmospheric moment of the film. I have to give it to Ewan and Ian, though. They were apparently the only two actors in the whole cast who bothered to think of their characters as real people. This is the first movie where Obi Wan has come off as anything but an aloof, manipulative asshole to me. He seemed genuinely pained by what he felt he had to do and also appeared to truly give a damn about Anakin for the first time in their three-film relationship. And Palpatine pretty much stole every scene he was in. I agree with whoever said he laughed too much, but his dialogue (essentially a monologue) with Anakin was suprisingly well written and delivered. Unfortunately, these were supposed to be supporting characters in the movie. The real crux of the plot is Anakin's feelings and how they get him into trouble. Specifically his love for Padme. Well, none of Anakin's feelings were any more believable this time around than in Clones and the "love" still felt more like the dynamic between two kids shoved into a closet together at a party. Awkward. Clumsy. Wrong. I had hoped this last film would have learned from the mistakes of the past two. It didn't. On the other hand, I don't want the hours of my life back the way I did after TPM, so it's not a bad movie, per se. It just isn't particularly good and falls short of fulfilling the expectations I had for this most important chapter in the now-six-part saga. I'm sad I didn't enjoy it more. But how would I have known if I didn't give it a shot?
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May 19, 2005 5:50:16 PM CDT
All this pathetic no taste apologist bullshit proves we need ano
by industrykiller
I've never seen so many ridiculous excuses in a talkback. Plot holes are for nitpickers? The "NOOOOOO" wasn't laughable? Leia's now erroneous comments about her mother in Return of the Jedi are just fine? It seems a lot of you idiots just wanted to see Anakin become Darth Vader and you did not give a fuck how it happened. So apparently porn level acting, totally unjustified changes of character, horribly filmed lightsaber duels, pointless villains (dooku/Grievous), the worst dialogue yet in the series, Jedi's going out like bitches, and a plot so nonsensical and poorly pasted together that it makes Ed Wood spin in his grave is just fine. Absolutely pathetic. I'm not some OT purist who hates the prequels for existing and my expectations were merely that it be as good (or bad) as the other two for me to enjoy it. But Lucas had to go and make an even bigger mockery out of THE MOST IMPORTANT events of the entire saga. I bet Lucas could have animated a stick figure doing the funky chicken for two hours and as long as it had one 5 second shot of Vader on screen you would have all cried masterpiece. But I guess a lot of you no taste, "hey it's Star Wars so it's good", cinema derelicts will accept absolutely anything anyway.
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http://www.infowars.com/video/clips/starwars/wm_bb.htm
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Textures and all... the film was a mess though. The wheezy lizard kinda summed it up... loud and clumsy and bulky and all over the place, but somehow fun to watch. And I don't care what people say, any bit of TPM with Liam Neeson on it was far more watchable than these two last films put together.
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It was a decent movie, but didn't make up for the last two. I loved Star Wars as a kid and wanted to like all of the prequels. There wasn't ever a sense of that Star Wars magic though. Instead we get characters that are misused and plots that are underdeveloped so that we can see kung fu Yoda, Jar Jar, and Obi-Wan's trip to a 50's diner. Great fights do not a good movie make. I'm not sure what the bigger mistake was in the prequels, starting off with Anakin at summer camp or Lucas directing the movies himself. There was so much in ROTS that could have been great had it been spread out through two movies. Instead, Anakin's turn was rushed and a lot of the movie seemed like Lucas scrambling to tie up loose ends. In the end, there was only one character in the prequels who was likeable, two villains who looked awesome but were incredibly misused, and a whole lot of scenes added to help kiddies sit through the movie. If only there was something in there to help the adults get through the movies...
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The story was okay...but I'm so sick of this cgi over kill...a message for George: less is more!
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LOOKS LIKE THE END OF AN ERA. THIS FILM MAKES THE SAGA COMPLETE. ONLY THING LEFT TO DO NOW IS ENJOY WHAT WE HAVE AND HOPE SOMETHING COMES NEXT. MAYBE NOW SUPERSHADOW WILL HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO MAYBE HE'LL SHUT DOWN HIS SITE. BETTER YET, SINCE THE DARTH SIDIOUS IS NOW IN CHARGE FOR THE NEXT FEW DECADES LET HIM TAKE THE FUCKER OUT.
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Vader: "It was only a slight tolchok, I swear it!"
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I mean...what the fuck was ALL the hype about General Grievous...he was coughing in every scene and seemed sickly and it was never even explained why. HE DIED TO FUCKIN' QUICK just like Darth Maul!
He was supposed to be this super badass jedi killer and he fuckin got his arms chopped within seconds of getting into it with Ben!
That aside...the fuckin fight on Kshyyk with the wookies wen't by totally too fast! We BARELY see Chewbacca. I thought they had a major part in this movie??
Next..what the fuck happened to Boba Fett?? I remember him being set up in AOTC to have a major role in this movie, what happened?
Darth Vader is like on the table we flash to Padme giving birth, Darths new legs are on..we flash BACK to Padme pushing out Leia..we flash back to Vader and he is COMPLETELY SUITED UP EXCEPT FOR HIS MASK!!! DOES THIS SEEMED FUCKIN' RUSHED TO ANYONE ELSE??!
I mean shit I waited all my years to see him be encased in that onxy tomb and they did ...1...2...3 done! What the fuck it was done so simply it sucked! It ended feeling STILL unfinished and incomplete. And it was quite cheezy to see Owen and Beru stand and stare at the moons like Luke did. If he had any imagination, since he likes to "Flash" so fucking much...he should've flashed 5 years later..and showed about 10 more minutes..like a quick fight with Vader and one of those "other" mysterious Jedi out there in the galaxy they mentioned. They should've showed Vader do shit they can only do now because of the advancements in cgi. Show him kill a few Jedi with Boba Fett by his side helping him...and then flash to a five year old Leia on Alderaan being primped in Royal Classes on how to be a good princess. And then FINALLY flash to Tatooine and show Owen lecturing a blue eyed, blond haired 5 year old boy about NOT doing his chores and paying attention more to things his Aunt Beru wants him to do. Then show the boy walk out to that famous sand mound in front of that hut and stare at the moons. Focus on his face and how even at 5 you can tell in his eyes he wants more from life, cut back to the camera behind him, we just watch his little body looking towards those moons as the famous Star Wars theme plays and FINISH! The words come up "Writ -
May 19, 2005 6:23:37 PM CDT
Ending was pretty fun (once the jedi started getting their asses
by minderbinder
It's always a bad sign when you want to fast forward through slow spots the first time you watch a movie. Definitely would have been a better plan to just cram the whole damn trilogy into one movie, Keep the last hour the same but put the important bitfrom 1 and 2 into the first hour. And lucas definitely should stick to montages, he's actually capable of some compelling filmmaking when he gives the actors a break from dialogue and actually shows things happening.
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first off, we all know Episode I and II sucked. Jar Jar, too much exposition, awkward love story, and all. GET OVER IT, YOU WHINY LITTLE CHILDREN! HOW OLD ARE YOU PEOPLE TO STILL BE WHINING?!? you detractors whine like 4 year-olds whose parents take the to Toys R Us, and you stomp and scream in the aisles when your parents say "no" to the big shiny toy you want them to buy for you that is obviously too expensive for them to get for you.
forget whatever childhood experiences you had about Star Wars. you're not children anymore, for chrissakes. stop trying to recapture whatever semblance of youthfulness in your middle-aged, pot-bellied, 9-to-5 workin' lives through these movies. your youth is over, your lives are depressing. deal with that instead.
i saw ROTS last night, and it's a lot better than I and II. sure, the film has its flaws, but so did the OT, something people lose sight of. stop bitching because things didn't happen EXACTLY the way you imagined it in your heads while you probed your assholes with your plastic lightsabers. like the old saying goes, "you can only please some of the people some of the time, but you can never please all of the them all of the time."
if you think it's so damn easy to makes movies, why are you here bitching about movies you had virtually NO HAND in the creation of, when you should be out making your own damn films? simple, you have to get to your worthless, menial, mimimum-wage jobs tomorrow and answer to your boss while he reprimands you for calling in sick to see Epsiode III 5 times today, yet contradicting your own actions the whole time by coming on here and saying the movie sucked ass when you already saw the movie more times than any non-fanboy would. simply put: YOU DON'T MAKE MOVIES, SO STOP TALKING LIKE YOU DO. you don't make movies, and you never will. you're simply Monday morning quarterbacks, telling Lucas what YOU THINK he should have done while you post on here from behind your desk while your boss isn't looking because you should be working instead.
Instead of crying over the flaws the films had, why don't you at least enjoy the good moments like the Podrace and the Darth Maul fight, and John Williams' "Duel of the Fates" in I, the Jedi fighting in the arena and Yoda whopping ass with a lightsaber in II, and *SPOILERS* the Yoda/Palpatine fight in the Senate and the Anakin/Obi-Wan fight on Mustafar (seeing Anakin getting his limbs cut off and nearly burned alive was horrific...but it rocked!) in Episode III.
and by the, for those of you who will obviously respond with remarks like "YOU SUCK LUCAS' DICK!", i already pointed out the flaws in these films, and i know there's a crapload of things he could have done a lot better. but i say, "take what you can get, and be happy with it 'cause you will likely never see anything like it ever again." -
It was the best of all six. What do you ot loving muthas think of that!!!
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May 19, 2005 6:32:44 PM CDT
Those of you who belittle people who enjoyed Sith must have REAL
by doom ii
Why the fuck else would you waste your time on a talkback about a movie series you despise and actually type entire paragraphs about how shitty it is? Are you trying to convince ME that the movie sucked or YOURSELF? Give it a rest. You won't convince me of shit. I had a blast and intend to see this film several times. It was a great time at the movies! I found it much more entertaining than the last 2 Matrix or LOTR films. And even as a lifelong Spider-Man fan, I felt it blew away the 2 Spidey movies we have seen so far. Next time there is a talkback for the latest Adam Sandler movie (Longest Yard), you sure as fuck won't catch me in there typing for HOURS about how shitty it is. I won't even visit THAT talkback, but then again, I have a life.
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How come there is no mention whatsoever of the sith on the OT?
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Alls I can say is WOW. Anyone that says this movie wasn't fantastic has an agenda of their own. I guess it's more "interesting" to say that the movie sucked. But it doesn't. Far from it. Easily the best Star Wars movie of all time. It grabs hold of you and doesn't let go. The 2.5 hours flew by. Pure and simple cinema masterpiece. If you didn't like it your obviously smoking crack. What's not to like? Certain people feel better about themselves by putting down others. For me this movie was incredible. Congratulations George, you did it.
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It's GILA monster, dumb ass. Learn 4th grade spelling before you bash Star Wars. Shouldn't you be watching "Reading Rainbow" right now??
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Fun for the whole family...not fanboys. All these slags on Ep. I and II for what??? Credability??? It seems that you are only credible around here if you don't like episodes I and II. I don't buy it. I see them no less corny than anything in the original trilogy. And there is nothing wrong with corny. It ia all good fun. As for the "Nooooooooo"... Well, Vader hasn't become a bad ass yet, just a young man who got the ass whooping of his life, burned to hell, cock and all, and turned into a machine and gets no more booty from the woman he "loves" because she is dead...what's he supposed to say all you OT die hards???? Would you prefer:
"No, Noooooooooo, that's not true...that's impossssiiibbllllee"..."Nooooooooo, Noooooooooooo, aaaaarghhhh"... Is that better (or worse)? Give it a break. And again, how are any of the prequel's more corny than ANH, TESB, and ROTJ???? They are all great flicks...and corny as well. -
i watched the film today after much anticipation yet almost as much dread, and was pleasentley suprised. i was an open eyed 11 year old when i first watched star wars and it totally inspired me, yet i am sure if i was 38 when i saw it i would of totally pulled it apart. the importance the of the first film has as much to do with the moment in time it was released as its content, which in retrospect has many faults. ROTS entertained me, i felt i more than got my moneys worth, it restored my faith in the saga, regardless of its faults. any one expecting something perfect was a fool, but at least the ratio of bad to good was perhaps 15% - 85% instead of 50/50 (ATOC) and 75/25 (TPM). ewans cringeworthy lines,and grevious being a wash out compared the the clone wars cartoon, were honestly the only things that really bothered me as the credits rolled, and as i sit here now typing my feelings are more focused on wanting to go back and see it again (something i havn't felt for a while) and experience the spectacle of the whole thing. all the haters out there trying to pick faults in it shouldn't take this shit so seriously. yes the previous 2 offended me and i hold the original 2 as fond but faulted memories, but this was good fun, technically faultless, the most fluid mix of live action and cgi i think i have seen, humour, drama, action a bit of romance, much like the pulp old school serials that inspired the saga in the first place, but in a 21st century style. george might be a money hungry marketing demon, but he made a fine movie, don't let all these fools put you off, go with that mind you had as that kid with out a care in the world, you'll love it!...go as a 38 year old cynic and you'll have a love it also (all be it a bit more wary of the few cracks)
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Just because the Emperor is gone, doesn't mean that someone in the galaxy-wide empire won't seize control...a handful or Rebels on an Ewok planet aren't going to be in power...that's for sure. Oh yeah, and Chewbacca turns out to be Han's half brother...and Luke/Leia's 2nd cousin, one removed. And Obi-Wan was actually Han's maternal uncle...
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Has anybody except me seen Millennium Falcon approaching the senate building when Anakin and Obi One are coming to see the senator after they crash landed the battle ship???
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OF COURSE this is a huge flaw...just like it was a flaw to say that Vader hunted down and killed Luke's father. And C3PO saying that he was a poor storyteller and then sitting there and telling animated stories to Ewoks later on. Lucas never cared about continuity, character, or dialogue...but those spaceships sure look cool.
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since you such an authority on films. . .
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May 19, 2005 6:50:43 PM CDT
One more time: Leia, her mom, and "the truth" (yeah...right)...
by techtite
Yes, Luke asked Leia about her
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The immense amount of CGI took me out of the movie from the get go. The acting (save Ewan) was ridiculously bad. The dialogue was worse. Yoda was cool. R2 was cool. The fights were fun if repetitive. Apathetic to the emotional "arc" of all the characters. Scenery and background don't create an emotional response... people do. Lucas is lazy because his fans let him get away with it. People cheered at the end of this movie, but it was forced and unattached, just like Lucas's direction.
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Why would Yoda think that Anakin still had "family" on Tatooine? Why would they even want to take on a child from that creepy guy that stopped by a couple years earlier? Obviously Owen thought little of him..."that's what I'm afraid of". And if this Darth Plagus guy was really creating random lifeforms on random backwoods planets, it seems alittle beyond reason that Qui-gon & co. just happen to land there and run into the shit. And seems like a rally dumb place to drop off Luke without even changing his name. It's like the only reason the movie ends up on Tatooine is cuz it HAS to...though it makes no logical sense if the films were shot in the actual order. I loved this movie, but there are still some major fucking plot holes that cast a shadow over the entire saga now. Retarded resolutions, and things that just don't add up. The whole virgin birth thing, "tied up" w/ Plagus...just stupid... whatever man. None of the "chosen one" garbage does anything for the overall trilogy. You could just cut all of it out, along w/ the fucking midichlorians bullshit and it would make no difference other than to enhance the story.
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Yoda is just too smart and wise sometime...hiding him in the most likely place for him to be found. Lucas really crowbarred his story all over the place to get Luke to be Vader's son.
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is that i saw ROTS last night. Holy fuck. Just got back from seeing it again. Holy shit. And to all the assholes who hated this movie, please remember that your inability to move out of your moms' basements is not Lucas' fault. ROTS ROCKS!!!!!!!
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Apparently it wasn't the most obvious place because the Empire never found Luke on Tatooine.
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Okay, wow, where do I start. I just got back from the screening and I'm exhausted by it.
First, let me just say, of the new trilogy, I was really let down by the first one, thought the second was okay but now, think that ROTS one brilliant.
This past 20 months has been kind of tough for me, my mum was diagnosed with terminal cancer and now things are coming to a head. I guess I looked forward to this movie as something to help me get by with the generals stresses I'm dealing with right now and just as my life with a loved one is coming to an end, so now is my journey with star wars. I know it sounds cornball, I know I'll probably get cussed and flamed for saying this but damn, I had to write something somewhere after such a powerful film experience and I figured where else but with other film nerds could I do so. Its ironic as the first Star Wars film I saw in the cinema was ROTJ with my mum when I was 5, I would have loved her to be there tonight but alas she is too unwell. I can remember me telling me Jabba was just a puppet and that the little ewok who got fried would be okay and tonight, I swear, it was like going back in time in that I came out and loved what I saw. It really felt like Star Wars, it all makes sense now and I think I can let old Georgie boy off for inflicting Phantom on us (only just though!). Anyway, I don't know why I wanted to say what I did but I have now and so those that wanna curse then go for it. Those who have been on the great star wars ride and feel like they left a little piece of themselves in the cinema tonight, you know what I'm saying.
Thanks again George. Now lets get Indy riding again....... -
So if they would have hidden Luke in Vader's sock drawer and then Lucas wrote it so the Empire never found him there, then that would be logical and good writing...lol...good one, buddy.
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They were obviously concerned about Luke and Leia being found or they wouldn't have split them up and "hid" them to begin with. Anywhere else in the galaxy would have been better to hide Luke than on Vader's home planet, with Vader's family, and with Vader's last name. I guess that's why these movies are made for 8 year olds...because they can't see that 2 + 2 doesn't equal 5.
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Obi-wan did find out that Anakin was there "what in blazes is he doing there" but who the fuck else knew about the Lars compound...certainly not Yoda. And origially Lars was supposed to Obi-wan's brother. Lucas fucked that up way back in TPM. It would have made alot more sense that way. Watch ANH and ROTS again and think about it. It just doesn't add up. The whole Tattoine being the center of the fucking universe makes no sense...afer all, it was supposed the planet that was farthest from. Yet it seems to be hotbed of importance and intrigue if you ask me. And why doesn't Obi-wan just raise Luke himself? He doesn't even know these people he's handing Luke off too. And it's not he's gonna be that busy anyway...sitting in the middle of the fucking desert by himself talking to who? His dead-ass former master...who I STILL don't understand why he didn't fade away when he died like Obi-wan or Yoda in OT. Good movie, but just stupid sloppy, unthought out shit everywhre...sorry.
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1. Research (Shmi is from Cardonas and Anakin was born on Thessius) and 2. Check your spelling (his name is Plagueis). Anger and ignorance are a lethal combination.
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The kids were hid, Vader got really busy after becoming Vader, so why other looking for a son and/or daughter he didn't think were still alive? It isn't as if Anakin/Vader was the all that bright to begin with...he only put 2 and 2 together in ROTJ that since Luke was alive, his sister had to be...an "Oh yeah, we were gonna have twins and Luke's feelings are letting me know there was her to be hidden as well" moment. But in the end, Vader is a busy man and didn't have time to seek them out all his life. Owen he met once briefly, and then gone...why should he care what the deal is with them in the outer rim??? He has a universe to control...
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I'll spare you my comments on the movie (the best of the latest 3 but not quite there) and just focus on how Lucas completly fu**ed up the twists in Ep. V and VI ("I am your father" "Leila is my sister"). He should never have shown us Anakin becoming Darth Varder (yes it was a good scene.. but listen to me!). He should have left the audience believe that he was dead by the lava and then we should have learnt that the Emperor had a new "right hand guy" a certain Darth VArder. Later on we would have found out the truth together with Luke.
Same goes for the twin connection. We should not have know about Leia.: not that it was a girl, let alone her name! Lucas should have just shown what happens to Luke.... Later on, in episode VI we would have learnt the truth about Leila! -
Is it really that hard to believe that Vader wouldn't look for Luke on Tatooine? He didn't even know if Luke was alive until the Death Star trench run. Apparently killing Jedi and upholding tyranny come before looking for any offspring who may or may not be alive. If you remember the OT (I'm assuming you can), the Emperor told Vader to wait for Luke, that he would come to him. And that was probably the mindset all along. And the name's not "buddy". It's "pal".
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hey, i still remember bits and pieces of stuff when i was 1 year old, so who's to say that Leia doesn't remember Padme? i agree that since both Luke and Leia are extremely Force-sensitive, that they could have remembered something from their mother, or even seen her in memories through The Force, sorta like how Anakin can see Padme dying before he dies. Force-sensitive people may be able to see events from the past AND the future. and as far as there being no mention of the Sith in the OT: remember, the Jedi are assumedly extinct, all remnants of them have probably been destroyed (sorta how the Nazis tried to destroy all remnants of the Jews in Europe), and Vader and Palpatine are the only Sith, so there would obviously little mention of either the Jedi or the Sith. also, it's a dictatorship, so talk of the Jedi/Sith conflict could have been outlawed by Palpatine to keep others from trying to learn about the Force themselves, becoming Jedi and/or opposing Palpatine's rule. i mean, have you ever wondered why no one else has secretly tried to learn the ways of the Force? learning about The Force could be outlawed in the OT.
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Sorry for the flashback, but I still find this incredible:
"What Lucas has done, is to make a film that is so relentlessly entertaining and thrilling, that there will be no movie this summer that can stand against it. This is it.
This movie is the real deal. It is smart, beautiful (god digital photography is the glory and the future of the world of film, the palette is strikingly dramatically colorful), thrilling and electrical. Essentially it is a pure action adventure science fiction fantasy with a touch of romance. Line up now. This Star Wars is for real." -
remember in ROTJ, Vader says to Luke, "Ah, you have a sister!" He didn't know he had more than one child. he assumed his only child had died along with Padme until ESB, when Luke SKYWALKER shows up (he didn't know he was trying to kill his own son in the Death Star trench in ANH). now i know what you're going to ask: "why didn't Anakin know Padme was having twins? couldn't he have used The Force to sense two babies?" well maybe the vacinity of the babies had something to do with it, since babies were in such close proximity to each other in Padme's womb that he couldn't distinguish more than one energy coming from Padme's womb. either that, or he just didn't use The Force to feel his children inside Padme's womb.
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It's actually worth being called STAR WARS. Amazing. Who would've thought Lucas had a good film left in him? And this one is just that--good. It's not great. It's not perfect. But it's good, and in the light of how crappy TPM and AotC were, it's pretty freakin amazing. There was a ton of emotion here, for starters, and I don't think the infamous Obi-wan Anakin duel could have been handled better. The acting was far better across the board--Portman and Christensen actually displayed honest emotion this time around. And the dialogue, you could definitely tell somebody ghost-wrote it for Lucas this time, because it mostly doesn't suck. The CG has improved to the point where it doesn't usually distract from the film, though it's still used far too excessively (WHY does a shot of an individual clone trooper have to be CG? What is wrong with a costume, for crying out loud?). There were some moments where Lucas' directing genuinely impressed me, which I can't say about either of the other prequels. The plot is good and it mostly makes sense (mostly). And the power of the ending, and the way everything ties together, just makes me want to go back and watch the original trilogy. This film did what each of the prequels SHOULD HAVE done--it gave new context and meaning to the original trilogy, and it only rarely seemed trite and toadying. Take the way Obi-wan left Anakin to slowly burn, for example--suddenly their duel in Episode IV makes so much more sense and has so much greater emotional impact. Anakin has a very, very good reason to hate Obi-wan and want him dead. But this movie was far from perfect. My biggest problem with it was that I found the motives behind Anakin's fall to be utterly unconvincing. He basically fell to the dark side for two reasons: because he wanted to save Padme, and because he felt unappreciated and left out. The latter is a pathetic excuse and should never have been used in the first place, it just weakens the character in general. The problem with the former is that it isn't given enough weight. Anakin fears Padme's death on the basis of a dream. It's not tangible enough, nor is the evidence that he could save her by going to the dark side strong enough. Maybe if Lucas had gone the slightly more melodramatic but significantly more believable route and afflicted Padme with a fatal disease that INSURED her death it would have been much more believable. But the way it was handled... I didn't believe it. It was weak. A second major problem is the way Yoda ran away from Palpatine. HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE BETTER THAN THIS. How the hell are we supposed to admire him if he runs away after one little fall? If he's a true hero he should be willing to die fighting Palpatine as long as there is some hope of defeating him. I did not get the impression at all that he was thoroughly thrashed by Palpatine. Furthermore, it would have been nice if he had some clear reason to run away instead of putting all his cards on the table and trying his best to end it then and there (even if he died in the process). Perhaps an extension of the prophecy to Anakin's children, for example. The final serious beef I had was with Padme's death. I don't buy this cheesy "she lost the will to live" BS. Yes, I believe people can lose the will to live and slowly wither away, but I do not for a second believe that it would happen over the course of hours--maybe months. Not hours. It would have been better if Anakin had actually done what Palpatine told him he did--killed Padme in his anger. Maybe there could have been a medical droid on the ship to save the babies. The thing about these problems is, they could have been fixed if Lucas had put the time and effort into it. But he didn't. Damn him for that. I also had a bunch of nitpicks, but they're not worth filling this review with, so I'll just end it here. This was a good movie and the only one of the prequels worthy of the name STAR WARS. 4/5 stars.
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I really like the new film. I got to see stuff that I'd always wanted to see but the best thing about this film happened today while I was sat in my favourite coffee shop on Rose Street in Edinburgh, Scotland. It was fairly busy and as I sat there with my coffee, reading my paper, a man and his son sat next to me. The son (who's name was Jack) was bouncing up and down with excitement holding a C3PO toy. He told me that he'd just been to see Star Wars with his Dad. He told me the story of that film and that it was the first time he'd been to the cinema. That his Dad was going to let him watch the old films now. He talked to me non-stop for 30 minutes about Star Wars while his Dad was using the internet. It was like watching myself 20 years ago and when he left I had a huge smile on my face, happy that Star Wars still has the power to excite and let kids take their first step into a larger world.
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The entire audience applauded at the late-afternoon showing. People were leaving the theater in tears. Lucas pulled it together on this one! Now, as for the other two in the PT, just remember that the death of ANY of those characters wouldn't have meant as much if you didn't get to know them in I and II. Though I knew it was coming, Mace's death still sent shockwaves through me. If Lucas only made RotS, when Mace died I'd be like "Wow. Another dead Jedi." but with the background and two movies behind me, Mace's death was profoundly disturbing. The "Noooo!" was exactly what I'd do if I just found out I accidentally killed my wife, and my entire life were destroyed, so I had no problem with it. The OT "real mother" discussion isn't a problem for me: Leia remembers Bail Organa's wife, who obviously died early, and not her real mother. Or maybe she saw her through the force. Who cares? It's a 30-something woman trying to remember her birth mother, and it can't be expected to be a perfectly clear memory. I find it funny that Jar-Jar is one of the few PT characters that DOESN'T die, as if Lucas was trying to spite the haters! All-in-all, it was a great film. It was true to the serial adventure ideals, and yet filled with badassness through and through.
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I loved it. I approached the movie with high expectations and was pleasantly suprised. Lucas was UNRELENTING in moving the story along and I think that is why I loved it. There was not a moment I was bored or thinking, "Why the hell did I stand in line for this for 3 friggin hours?" I thought I would be tired because of the 12am show but I was engulfed in the madness and the sadness of ROTS. 10 out of 10
Tacoloft-out -
May 19, 2005 8:20:35 PM CDT
I have to admit, leaving Luke on Tatooine doesn't make a whole l
by fluffyunbound
You don't change the kid's name? You leave him with the one relative that Vader might know about? Wouldn't any other planet and any other foster parents in the entire galaxy make more sense? And, beyond that - since Obi Wan should know that command of the force is genetic, he knows that Luke and Leia are the only ones potentially powerful enough to defeat Vader and the Emperor. Why throw those two assets away? Why not take them somewhere and raise them in secret to be Jedi? Why throw Luke on some dirt farm, so that by the time ANH and ESB roll around "too old to receive the training he is"? It makes sense in ANH that Luke has been dicking around his whole life, and then a sequence of events brings him to prominence. But after the prequels, it's clear that Luke and Leia were prominent IN THE WOMB. They were the only shot THE WHOLE TIME. So why aren't they hidden on a planet somewhere with Yoda and Obi Wan training them from birth? // I still think I'll like ROTS, though. Hated TPM, hated Clones, but I'm still ROTS-confident. I'll just make the positive decision to forget about a few plot holes.
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As I said earlier, I don't give a flying fuck about EU crap. The fact that know such retarded little details about the characters just indicates that you are WAY too deep in SW shit. "Do research" are fucking insane? Oh, sorry about my spelling mom. I'm not going waste my time proof-reading a fucking AICN post. Harry doesn't, obviously... so why the fuck would I? Who gives a shit how how Darth fucking fagus is spelled?! I just saw the fucking movie last night, how WOULD know how it's spelled fucko. It's not like Palpatine was wearing a goddamn T-shirt with the fucker's name on it. It sounded like plagus to me, so, wow, there's an i and an e in there somewhere. The spelling is fucking lame in these movie anyway. We all know it looks corusCUNT even though it's pronounced SANT. How about...SEE-Threepio...whatever. You're probably one of these stools that writes "Se7en" like a fucking dipshit. Why don't you just pay attention to the content bitch. I had a nice point back there, but you had to go and impress us w/ your in-depth Star-Wars knowledge/ grammer lesson, rather than address it...creep. Hey, at least I bother to write 'for' and 'to' instead of 2 and 4. Remember...no 1 fux w/ anal no 1
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...meant nothing to me. I didn't care about these characters at all from the previous films. I only started caring about them in THIS movie, because the acting and dialogue was actually good enough for me to do so. Mace Windu still meant nothing to me, though, and the only reason I cared to see him go was because it signified Anakin's fall to the dark side.
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i saw this film today like im gussing most of you did.... and i just cant believe it....star wars is OVER... and it ended in such an amazing way.... i dont think ive ever felt so much emotion in a sci fi film...the whole thing from start to finish was the film ive been waiting for and more...star wars is over...but i feel like its complete and im happy with the result. in a way the only downside is that we dont have 4 5 and 6 to look forward to... its a shame because if the origianl trilogy had been made now it would be on an even bigger scale with much more action...im not saying they'd be better, but it'd be intresting to see the result.
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I dropped a shitload of words on that last post...just IMAGINE that the "I's" and "You's" are there. I meant to leave them. In an effort to mimic Lucas...to show you...oh nevermind. Maybe I should proof-read before I hit the post button. But maybe Lucas should too. Anger and ignorance indeed.
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Fuck off!
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For 20 some years I have been looking forward to this film. I knew better than to go in with high expectations after TPM & AOTC, but I couldn't help it - I really couldn't; and I tried, I tried to qeull my giddy geekish anticipation. But Vader's cry to the heavens so lamely, sophmorically unoriginal at such an incredibly important point in the film - bummer!; also Sidious' overacting - he was so impecable in ROTJ, with absolutely no need for obvious voice effects or attempts by the actor to make it more dramatic - less would have been better in both of these areas. Well, as with the other prequels, I hope further viewings will capture my heart in spite of the faults - I so wanted perfection or something close enough to it. Damn!
George - if you ever read this - please edit out the Vader moment -his cry to the heavens (No!) - it is so so so bad - just having nothing there but the force damage to the room is much better - seriously. So fucking lame. Talk about buzz kill. Fuck. -
Start with a busy action sequence, preferably one that is so jammed pack with CGI that you can't concentrate on any shot for more than 1 second (see also: Michael Bay 101). Second, throw in some Jedis. But make sure they do at least one or two somersaults. Have the good guys with a 2 to 1 advantage but make sure Obi-Wan is incapacitated a minute into the fight. Then make sure someone loses at least one limb (preferably a hand, but legs will do too). Now throw it all in a blender and hit the pulse button. After you've gulped that down, have your characters (only two at a time please) exchange on-the-nose, piss poor dialogue, but make damn sure they're standing in front of a window (a big window) so we can see what's floating by outside, it's obviously more important than what they have to say. And there's only two forms of acting allowed during these "buffer" scenes: if you're not chewing the scenery, you should become part of it (preferably a chair or coat rack). If at any given moment you feel like there's some opportunity for real emotion, cut away (and cut away fast). We don't need Obi-Wan dwelling on the security footage of his Padawan slicing and dicing a bunch of pre-schoolers. Blank looks will suffice. Wait a second, I'm getting a cease and desist from LucasFilm. They don't want me revealing anymore of their secrets. Feel free to blast away at me, but this movie sucked to high heaven.
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It was a little lame and would have been better with more subtlety, but there was enough real emotion there that I could justify/believe it, so I can cut Lucas some slack on that one. For Christ's sake of all the things that might ruin the film for you, why pick that?
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Someone's a little upset that I made a point? And it wzsn't your spelling in particular, jackass. If you're going to bitch about something, at least have the knowledge to back up your ideas. Or just up the meds, and everything will be okay. It's okay to want to know what you're talking about. Don't be afraid. No need to feel intimidated or become defensive because someone might know more than you on a particular subject; by the looks of your talkbacks, I'm sure it happens all the time. Oops... did I just fuck with you?
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That's good stuff right there.
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I'm really too tired and a little too drunk to read all this now. So forgive me if I repeat anything already said. Saw RotS earlier today. Here's my two cents on the last Star Wars ever: Absolutely amazing. Not only a terrific SW-movie, but a terrific movie period. The best piece of directing Lucas has ever done. Next Best SW second only to ESB. Great writing. Great acting. Say what you will of the comic relief parts, I don't care. This movie was just so completely right. Great drama. All the major turns were handled compeletely right. I completely believed Anakins turn to the Dark Side. I hoped he would somehow not turn after all, but of course, I knew how things had to turn out. That air of inevitability was both great and depressing. Everything was so intense! I felt emotionally drained after seeing it. The love story worked, the friendship between OB1 and Anakin worked, the corruption of Anakin...all just perfectly done. Also, this movie adds great poignancy to the OT, as well as rendering the PT in a completely new light. I seriously believe the entire PT will be looked kinder upon with the distance of time. I saw PM and AotC earlier today, and I was surprised how much better they were than I remembered them. Lucas really knew what he was doing. I was also impressed at how intelligent it all was. It actually has something to say, not only about the corruption of democracy (wich is a rather obvious, welltrodden path), but of the corruption of man and of good intentions leading to catastrophe. To me, this movie serves as a vantage point for the rest of the movies. This is where it all comes together. And they sure didn't joke around when they said it was gonna be dark. Anyone not thinking it was dark enough are Adolf Hitler. And great funny little detail, with the dragon OB1 rides being the "inspiration" for the sound he makes to scare the sandpeople when first appearing in ANH. And of course, Anakin is the chosen one. He brings balance to the force, killing the Sith, only it is 23 years later than yoda etc assumed. George Lucas is a genius. Amen.
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Is it just me, or would that have worked so much better if it was about 10 seconds earlier, when he was detroying the lab?
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I thought this was the best yet and that Lucas nailed it! The prequels are a different animal than the original trilogy; The first three had more of the Indiana Jones flair to them mixed with occassional drama.
However, Sith is nonstop action mixed with intense drama. The opening scene alone makes it the best damn Star Wars of all time. Even after being warned of the dialogue mishaps, I thought everyone pulled it off perfectly.
Anakin's quick turn to the dark side did make sense because he had already wasted Mace and felt he couldn't turn back(and he wasted him for good reason). He even warned him, but Mace was about to destroy (in his mind) Anakin's life.
Even the cheesy "noooo" at the end was too brief to do any damage and I loved the way he started mentally destroying his surroundings with his anguish. James Earl Jones even managed to sound like Hayden.
Speaking of which, I thought he made a believable character instead of what everyone expected Darth to be... a WWF bad guy. He bulked up quite a bit from Episode two to look intimidating and made a realistic character out of the scorned Jedi.
I also liked how Lucas started the prequel with a kid...I think he wanted to remind people that even Adolph Hitler was probably a cute cherub as a boy and a whiny teenager before he became the epitome of evil (and that anybody could go down that road).
For me, the emotional highlight was Padme's rejection of her husband and the final scene of Obi-Wan confessing his love for a crispy Anakin...that cinched it for me.
Bravo, George! -
"Look, Mom! It looks like a dirty word!" Jackass.
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if he was bellowing "NOOOOOO!" while the lab was being destroyed. it also wouldn't have been too over-the-top if Vader had dropped to his new mechanical knees while he let out a gutteral, growling, "NOOOOOOO!" as everything shattered around him.
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The point I made earlier was that none of the Jedi knew dick about the Lars family. And there's nothing a goober like you can say to expain away the many corners that Lucas put himself in. And yeah, I get a little bit Anakin-bitchy when I run into fuckers like you and looses my cool. But you're right, on the Lars point, I'll admit, I just want somebody to post "you are SO right anal"...cuz I am.
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near the end, when bail, yoda and OB1 are at the moonbase, GL copies a shot from 2001, with two astronauts in the foreground looking down at the moonbase. Nice touch. And I also had no problem with Vaders Nooo. It's supposed to be a Frankenstein moment, that's obvious. Sure it's melodramatic, but so's "No, that can't be, that's impossible!", and that's the best scene in the whole series. I still think you need to see it in cronological order (4, 5, 6, 1, 2, 3)to get the proper dramaturgical arc. But that's okay. Would be interesting to hear what someone who's actually just seen it 1-6 would think...
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all in all i thought it was a fun movie, it made me actually care about anakin, i was cringing when you knew he was about to turn... great flick
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I Will make my point again, since you got to see where everyone else ended up..why not "DA MAN" Yoda..
So "I DUNNO" It was nice to see that you were one of the younglings killed in the movie..and this is the bottom line of our argument...
the ways of the force..your mind has just been erased..now go look for skittles and bite me!!!
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Qui-Gon has been communicating with Yoda, and tells him of Anakin's family on Tatooine. Let's assume that Qui-Gon has been watching Shmi all these years, possibly out of guilt for rescuing her only child while leaving her in slavery. Just a thought.
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May 19, 2005 9:19:52 PM CDT
MinasTirithII: "Kids are more excited about LOTR, SW doesn't cut
by triumph poops!
Your doctor called. He said he saw that you were posting utterly embarrassing drivel online, and it's clear that he needs to UP the voltage on your shock therapy treatments. He said its obvious from you making such a visible ass of yourself online, that your brain synapses aren't sparking enough wattage to form intelligent thoughts. So enjoy the jolts, buddy, and get back to us when your brain is charged and actually functioning.
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you are fucking morons who will spend the rest of your lives with the sneaking suspicion that your "friends" think you are complete wankers. Your friends will be right. Please fuuck off away from AICN, you8 obviously never "got" this site in the first place, meaning that by now, all hope is lost for you, and you never will understand the point of this site -you are faux-erudite wankers, and if I knowingly saw any of you in the street, I owuld wipe the fucking floor with you. FUYCK OFF, you are pricks, wankers, twats, and I suspect the majority of your respective hard drives are brimming with anal porn. You are fuckwits, please, please do us all a favor and fuck off.
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May 19, 2005 9:25:16 PM CDT
Oh whatever you wimpering Lucas-loving, prequel-freak apologist!
by wonkabar
You're just so fucking high-brow that you waste you're time reading fucking Star Wars books... and...bragging about the wealth of knowledge you have obtained or something...it's kinda...well, gay. Oh, I'm sorry, I shouldn't use those kinds of words when I'm among such scholars as yourself...nerd. Go suck Lucas' dick some more
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You need everything explained to you? You're joking, right? That's the mentality that has killed The Simpsons. I know, we're in a SW talkback. But Mark Hamill did voice work on that show, so I'm comfortable with the analogy.
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What a fucking moron you are. Why the hell have you come on this TB when you plainly have not seen the film? Are you too fucking stupid to understand that this is a talkback where people can post their reactions to the movie? Seriously, people like you remind me of how intelligent I am compared with the population at large -enjoy flipping burgers for the rest of your life, you fucking ignoramus. My god, I'm still stunned at how one person can be such a fucking DICK. How do you do it, Kiki? Do you have to take sterioids to render yourself that retarded?
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I'm not an apologist. (Someone leaned a new word...) I'm sorry that you can't figure some things out on your own and that you need Mommy to spell everything out for you. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but it's obvious you're retarded. I don't read SW books. I used a little-known utility called "The Internet". Ever heard of it? It would take the average person about 2 seconds to learn that fact, so you'd better give yourself an afternoon for it. So hurry along, little fella. Pack up your lunch and get some sleep: the blue bus comes awfully early.
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"Let's assume Qui-gon has been watching Shmi all these years" You only strenghten my my point jerk-off. Spoken like a true prequel-apologist. Dude, you guys give Lucas WAY too much credit. He's really not that clever. There's nothing in SW that's over mine, or anybody else' head. You're like one of these guys who says shit like "the stormtroopers were conscripts in OT...obviously...duh!" Dorks. No, it's NOT "obvious". I bet you're just like the hopless ass the from the other day that insisted Luke and Leia were brother and sister all along. Fools. Ok tough guy...can't you just admit that Lucas has been making this shit up as he goes? Grow up and smell the poo-doo. Oh sorry did I mis-spell that?
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Yes, I have heard of a "utility called the internet" I happen to be on it dickless. Boy you're so dry and witty. The point is most NORMAL people don't know where the fuck Shmi was born...they don't even know her name was shmi you fuck. Jesus you REEK of fucking geek-shit! You ARE a filthy dirty little apologist and you know it. And to top it off you're an snobby snotty prick about it to boot...you disgust me.
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I was like wtf?? Isn't that Sith like? They explain the Jedi "glow" in a few quips by saying Qui-Jon found the secret to immortality and he will teach Ben? Fucking ridiculous. WASN'T ANAKIN OBSESSED WITH MAKING PADME LIVE FOREVER?? DIDN'T HE JOIN THE SITH TO LEARN HOW TO MAKE THE BITCH LIVE FOREVER?? How come Yoda didn't tell him knew the secret to immortality? It would've saved him from getting his ass burned alive. Man Lucas is so fuckin' lazy. Timothy Zahn shoulda wrote this fucking movie.
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Thank you, George.. FINALLY you delivered what I've wanted since I first saw Star Wars as a child. This is the movie I've waited for, and I couldn't be happier with it. Thank you.
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May 19, 2005 10:29:46 PM CDT
Dont ya think Vader shouldve been killing some ass in the last 2
by jon e cin
Wouldve been cool. It was a good movie..by far the best of the three. I still love the OT but this actually felt like a star wars movie finally!
I had two uber dorks sitting next to me laughing at every scene. I wanted to punch them in the face. I guess its cool to make fun of the movie instead of actually watching it? You probably shouldnt see the movie if you already know your not gonna enjoy it. -
Now you're arguing for the average person? I don't think they want you as their spokesboy. i'm sure if they watched TPM once, they could figure out what her name is (after all, it is said more than once). Of course, for you that's probably too much to take in all at once, what with having to watch AND listen. Who the hell ever said that Lucas WASN'T making this up? LUCAS says the majority of details were as the story evolved, only the basic outline was in stone. What are trying to argue? That you're a moron? Point proven, then. Stick with your paint-by-numbers and play-doh, and make your handlers proud. You're arguing with me on a SW talkback about how you can't figure out some shit because it's not all explained, and I'M the geek? Fucktard.
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I'm going back to see this film again not because I feel it to be perfect, but because I feel it to be meaningful. Too many people focused on imperfections, as if any movie escapes them. Truth is, none do. Truth is, some imperfections are a matter of personal perspective. Some are noticeable by most, but matter more to some than to others. And some people could not see the value of a Star Wars film if you held a blaster to their head. In terms of plot holes and logic gaps, I didn't see much and I don't really care. Films are about feeling more than logic, selection more than completion. It bugs some intellectuals, but that's the way most people approach the complexities of the everyday, and people deal with movie from those same resources. Don't get me wrong. Logic can intensify the power of a movie. So can filling in the right details in the right way. But film are informal in their way, using logic when it suits the story, and doing away with it where it saps momentum and fills in what people already know. We got to learn that logic and intellect are not and can never be the whole of a satisfying movie experience.
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it can't erase the last two movies, unless it can... call Episode 3 "Episode 1" and keep going. The Good: there's no way this film was directed by George. The visuals and camerawork are light years beyond AOTC. No one changes that quickly. The first real Star Wars movie in 25 years. And Anakin's burning was super tits. The Bad: no reason for the Wookies in this one. And I actually think the film got clumsier as it went along. The Ugly: Vader yelling NO! was back to George's last two movies. Lame. And the need to connect the dots to Ep4 was super lame. Just end the film already. Our little minds can make the jump.
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I agree that ROTS is better than TPM or AOTC but at the same time it feels like when Lucas puts more effort in to one area of the filmmaking process he gets worse at another. It is fast-paced and not in a good way. Like many have said Anakin's turn seems rushed. Hell the whole movie feels rushed. I wanted this movie to blow me away but I had low expectations considering the previous two were snoozefests with good lightsaber fights. This movie is eye-candy with nods to the OT that are supposed to make fans like me happy but it ends up falling flat and it truly is a sad day for some SW fans. BTW, I was three when Star Wars was originally released and I love the OT flaws and all. The PT just blows and TPM and AOTC did truly drag what could have been a great finish down to mediocrity. I wish he had hired real writers and directors and stuck to producing which is what he IS good at. He told the "story that he wanted to tell" and it sucked. It's sad when EU material is better than what is coming from the fucking creator of the originals. Please if there is a God make sure that the Zahn books are used if Lucas ever signs off on VII, VIII and IX. No more of his swill please.
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..but I guess this one isn't over yet.
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Happy is the only word I can use to describe my reaction to RoTS. I feel happy. Satisfied. Good. It felt like a Star Wars movie. Thank you George for bringing it back. Thank you! I love this movie. I can't wait to see it again. Classic. While it was not perfect, it was very good, and it wasn't bad (a la the last two). It completed the saga. I love it! Right on!
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I just saw the final Star Wars film I'll ever see. Was it perfect? No. Was it entertaining? Heck yes. Does it feel like a Star Wars film? Without a doubt. Mr. Lucas, you brought your "A" game to this one; you pulled out all the stops; you delivered something you, and we, can be proud of. And so ends the end of an era for so many of us. The Star Wars saga now belongs to history. So I say again: Thank you Mr. Lucas, its been one heck of a ride.
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On the talkback/ photos page for Episode III... my boys and I are on the "Jedi Brothers @ NYC's Ziegfeld Theatre." I am the Jedi dressed on the far left. Another classic experience today. I will miss what has become an annual experience every 3 years the past 6. To all the folks at the Ziggy today it was great seeing y'all. Thanks for the love on the outfit. Mace Windu in the hizouse!! God bless and keep enjoying RoTS. Thanks Harry, Dr. F, and everyone else at AICN for allowing us to submit photos and share the experience. Once again proof why this is the best site on the net. Peace.
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How about "and so comes the end of an era for so many of us."
Sorry about that. -
What can I say...I'll be sure to brush up on my "research" before I dare enter the ring with the likes of you again(wipes away tears) I'll be sure to really "listen" to the artful dialogue in these deep and challenging films of yours, and take note of the colorful names such as elan sleezbagano...fuck! I'm sorry. I'll come better prepared for class next time master-Ricker.
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So you CAN learn? Good boy.
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Money makes the world go round...
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Our Midnight Showing was in Japanese. Film was halted and Red Passes were given out for a free admission but everything was sold out. Had to wait till Noon today....was worth the wait.
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Thanx 4 teaching me that Shmi is from planet retarded. I've learned so much...I'm not afraid. Now that you have ME all squared away, it's time 2 admit that u suc dick 4 food. I know it, I just know it. Fuck, I gotta get out of here, the sun is going down. I can now go into the outer world and find food elsewhere. AHHH! I'm losing it...errrr SAN DIMAS HIGHSCHOOL FOOTBALL RULZ!!!
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Why was this so hard for the wisest of the wise to figure out? The prophecy said that Anakin would bring balance to the force. Equal out the sides being the obvious implication. Well... What was the status quo prior to Anakin's arrival on the scene? The Light Side was pretty much reigning supreme, and apprently had been for quite awhile. So what would be the obvious implication of the prophecy? Why the balance will shift even MORE in favor of the Light Side? Whahuh??? Shouldn't this have been obvious?
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I watched episode 4 as soon as I got back home... and turned it off after the death of obi-won. It's all just so sweet now.
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Everyone loved Phantom Menace, saw it twenty billion times. Then they realized it was crap. Attack of the Clones got these raves from geeks. Now it's seen for what it is. Revenge of the Sith has redeemed the franchise. But it's the same old, same old ... bad dialogue, plot holes, simplistic ideas wrapped in a stiffly acted package with a CGI bow. Call me when the backlash begins. The only good thing about was the anti-Bush analogy Lucas hit you over the head with this time. Karl Rove = Sidious, Bush = Vader.
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who does it for fun? What keen detection skills you must possess, and such an amazing display of homophobia, especially from a boy who uses ANAL in his user ID. Now I'm off to spend time with my girlfriend. You do know what one of those are, right? Blow-up women and 900 numbers don't count.
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From the opening crawl "WAR! )What's it good for...absolutely nothin')" to the scene where Order 66 is initiated is only marginally better than the last 2. Now, from the Jedi being slaughtered to the scene where Vader is brought up on the table in his mask for the first time (maybe 40 minutes) is really great stuff. You can actually feel for the Jedi and the end of their time. You can invest youself in what is happening. Then Vader stumbles off the table like Frankenstein and it all goes to shit again.
And why does it take them 20 years to build the death star? Trooper strike?
This landed exactly where I thought it would. Better then 1 and 2, but far below 4, 5, and even 6.
The only thing Lucas accomplished in this mess (prequels) was to qualify Yoda as the best fo the Jedi. I love that little green motherfucker. Always will. -
May 19, 2005 11:37:21 PM CDT
Did you guys ever see this "fan film" trailer from TheForce.net?
by fa fa fooey
It's impressive, most impressive. This is what the prequels SHOULD have FELT like. You'll have to cut and paste the link. Check it out.
http://theforce.net/fanfilms/trailers/fantrailerb/index.asp
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I loved the whole thing, for the most part. I thought besides the flat love dialouge, which was nowhere near as bad as "clones", the film was a thing of beauty. Terrific cinematic shots, great action, a cast that seemed to care this time. I actually thought that Vader's "nooooooo" moment was exactly how it should have been. I place it as number three out of the six flicks, and well worth the wait. Lord help me I loved it so...
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Whooo! Some of you people need to chill out. it was damn okay! what else do you want in our age of bido? here's the issue: people hatin on Vader for crying and stompin around like a punk, saying its lame and blah blah blah. My question is done ANYONE think that is anywhere near the extreme spectrum lameitude of a Giant Flaming Eye. On top of the tower. Looking for the ring. Complete with ring seeking colour gaze. Dont mistake, i think both series of films are damn fine entertainment, if nothing to SWEAR and LIVE by, but seriously. That fuckin eye on top of the tower is possibly the most ludicrous and idiotic thing i've ever seen in a movie. Go Squarejaw City!
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like that fannytastic four flick thats gonna flame out would suggest . . . FLAME ON!
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He deserves some kind of Oscar consideration. Overall, I enjoyed the movie, but Ian brought the role of the Emperor from that of a cardboard cut-out bad guy to something special.
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But it sucked. I'd go into it but I've wasted enought time on this movie.
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... perhaps the "NOOOOO!!!" from Vader should have been something like this: *Vader pauses at the news. The moments crawl by as the camera attempts to discern emotion from the black mask. Suddenly, Vader snaps back to reality, turns menacingly and marches away.* Well, something like that.
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May 20, 2005 12:17:14 AM CDT
The more I think about it and after reading the talkbacks. I thi
by tallscott
I really think thats why he kept it in. As for me I think it was a great Star Wars flick. If you think its cool to bash star wars. Your wrong and it must suck to be you.
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I heard though may be wrong that the digital version had something after the credits involving Yoda and Qui-Gonn. Anyone confirm this or any digital extras?
Great film! Worried 30 minutes in when things got clunky but Lucas saved it - 3rd best SW movie! -
Darthricker, there are plenty of straight AND lesbo chicks who are into rimming and anal, so MAYBE give DarthRicker the benefit of the doubt that his woman likes to take it in the "Hershey Highway of Love". And whoever said Qui-Gon spirit may have been in Tatooine, I agree, based on the fact that when Anakin is slaughtering the sand people, you can clealy hear Qui-Gon scream "Anakin,Anakin, NOOO" while Yoda is meditating. That scene served mutiple purposes, to include illustrating that Qui-Gon was omnipresent around Anakin. Not to sound too dorky, but if Anakin had never turned evil, Qui Gon would have been his spiritual mentor like Obi Wan was to Luke. Just a thought. And not to sound like a supershadows apologist, but I do believe what he said about a sequel trilogy happening 5-10 years from now if ROTS tops $400 million in the US.
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May 20, 2005 12:24:29 AM CDT
Sorry, meant to say give ANALNATHRAX the benefit of the doubt
by krullboy
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May 20, 2005 12:26:03 AM CDT
Nosferatu Jones: yes, there will be Episodes VII-IX, but not fro
by dasher
It will be his kids - Jett, Amanda, and Katie - who will re-launch the series, since they're going to inherit his company. Maybe they won't write or direct, but they'll produce and hire others to do the new episodes (focusing on the next generation of Skywalkers). However, none of this will happen until George goes off to the great Jedi Temple in the sky, which probably won't happen for another 15-20 years or so. That's my prediction.
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Saw Revenge of the Sith last night. It is not an easy film to review. In
the first place, it is not a film that can be "liked" or "enjoyed"
easily; it is not a film to be enthusiastic about, like one can't ever
be enthusiastic over the war in Iraq or the Tsunami disaster. This is
not Lucas-lite any more. And the film is miles away from "fun".
This is a film that demands to be pondered over, to be discussed, for
its serious themes. It is, at heart, a morality tale, as well as an
essay on the Machiavellian attainment of power through politics and
subterfuge.
There is much gore and carnage and cold blooded over-killing. If Star
Wars was Luke's dream, this is Anakin's nightmare. Like it or not, it is
not a film easily forgotten or dismissed. It is powerful in the sense
that it overwhelms you mentally and emotionally. It is heart-wrenching
for its honest brutality.
And this is not a movie for kids: it is the stuff of nightmares, and if
they watch it, they'll be having nightmares over it for weeks, over its
themes and images. It is not about marching around in stormtrooper
outfits and Jedi sabres. It is not about Chewbacca or funny-sounding
Yoda, or cocky Han Solo.
I really hated Lucas for this movie; I hated him double time. Because
with this movie, he has really and truly demolished the dream that was
Star Wars. Because this movie is really and truly about Star Wars grown
up. Leave everything else aside - Bad dialogue, Jar Jar Binks - this is
not a movie or a story to be taken lightly, because it is saying
something, finally, finally, about the human condition, and tackling the
serious issues about good, bad, the soul and ultimately, redemption.
Is a cold-blooded mass murderer - murderer of innocents, women, children
- worthy of final redemption? Is the love of one's off-spring, and one
final act of conscience enough to wipe out, erase all the years of
brutality and murder? "There is still good in him". So what? He's maimed
and killed thousands. Can his soul be redeemed?
And finally, to all those Star wars geeks who have been bitching all
this time that Lucas has raped your childhood: well, with this film, you
are well and truly fucked. -
I'll refrain from voicing my thoughts and feelings about the film and focus on criticizing the talkbackers. (And yes, I know I'm pissing into the wind, but hell, I don't post often so why not?) If any of you loud, obnoxious, preening, strutting, cockswinging, loudmouth adolecent bile-spewers on either side of this insipid flamefest are over the age of, say, fourteen or so, you should be completely fucking ashamed of your behaviour. I mean, WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?! I know talkbacks get passionate, hell, I've been around long enough to see that, but GOOD GOD, get some fucking perspective! Talkbackers under the age of fourteen are exempt from this admonishment, as your behaviour is appropriate to your age. I figure by not adding a "LUCAS CAN HAVE MY FIRST BORN CHILD!!!" or "LUCAS IS LUCIFER INCARNATE" type one-shot to the end of this post may gain it some credibility.
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Far be it from me to deny this beautiful (albeit potentially sheet-staining) truth. God bless the pagans. Mmmmmmm... Hershey.
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Got sidetracked. Two things: Mon Mothma, anyone? Did she get cut as well? I've seen ROTS twice, and I didn't notice her (damn stigmatism). And wasn't Lucas supposed to have played a character? Once again, it could be that I just need to get my glasses fixed.
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May 20, 2005 12:43:04 AM CDT
Bitching about the dialogue in a Star Wars movie is like bitchin
by voice o. reason
In both cases, you're missing a lot of cool shit to focus on something that's not even close to the reason you're there. Sure, the steak tastes like rubber, but lookit them big ass titties dance! Isn't that what you paid you're money to see?
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just got back from the theater. christ, lucas won me over. the very last scene - with baby luke being handed over by obi wan to his aunt and uncle as they stare off into the setting suns - quite possibly one of the best SW moments. i'm truly at a loss for words.
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It's true, Star Wars was a huge part of my childhood. So was He-Man. So was GI Joe. So was Transformers. And Knight Rider. The A-Team. Dukes of Hazzard. Thundercats. I remember watching Goonies twice in the theater in one day. I thought the Short Circuit movies were good. I loved the Police Academy series. I even thought Howard the Duck was really good when I was in sixth grade. I mean it was a talking duck for crying out loud. That's hilarious. He reads Playduck. My point is, I can't understand who these people are fooling when they sum up their entire childhood as being Star Wars. It's a myth. We liked all kinds of crap when we were growing up, and luckily at least one of them turns out to still be enjoyable when we're older. And yet, it still tortures so many people. Anyway, I really liked Episode 3. Only two scenes I had to forgive, which is alot better than the other two. And like Return of the Jedi (yeah, I said it) this one has the advantage of having all the emotions and themes of its predecessors coming to a head. I'm very happy with it. (Darth Vader saying "NOOO!!!" will go down in infamy, though.)
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Check out www.plan66.com. it's really freaky. anyone seen chewie in a robe before?
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Padme's death is a plot hole. Luke specifically asks Lea what her REAL mother was like. Face it, Lucas fucked up.
I still enjoyed the movie though. -
I thought Yoda telling Anakin to learn to let go of attachments versus Palpatine selling the Dark Side as a way to embrace passion and offering an option to save Padme was a nice way to show how Anakin could actually consider the Dark Side an option. Nevermind Yoda telling him about the ghost immortality stuff where was Qui-Gon? He got Anakin into all this couldn't he make an appearance?
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May 20, 2005 1:33:22 AM CDT
I couldn't hear Anakin's being renamed Darth Vader over the deaf
by robert_g_durant
Seattle, WA. Pacific Place theater. Anakin and Padme's witty banter in her apartment at the beginning got chuckles. The audience started giggling at Palpatine as he over-emoted with his "No, NO NO NO!", and when he started making crazy faces as he transformed and shot lightning the light giggling turned to laughter. The laughter built to absolute hysterics when they put the horror movie distortion on his voice. Vader's "NOOOO!" elicited hysterical laughter from the audence like they were the spastic crowd in all those Def Comedy Jam videos. Doctor Sad-Bot giving the "I guess she's dying of a broken heart" speech just elicited groans. On the way out, I overheard someone asking why it took 20 years to build the first Death Star, yet during Return of the Jedi we get to see 60% of the Death Star II's construction completed in like a week. I DID NOT hear the excitement that I was hearing for hours before the movie started. For christ's sake, I defended "Yippie!" Anakin and Jar-Jar and his poop and fart jokes; it's not like I'm picky. All I asked was nothing that called for eye-rolling, let alone laughs.
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...Let's be honest here, ROTS is only marginally better than AOTC. While AOTC was much better than TPM. The reason ROTS has been reviewd so much better is purely on nostalgic reasons. I was taken by the fact that we're getting to see the beginning of the Star Destroyer, we see Vader, we see the Emperor in full lightning spewing form, S-Foils, TIE fighters (almost), wookies, the buns on Padme (and her hairstyle, natch)...etc. etc. I believe that the OT holds some sort of nostalgic bond with those who watched it then and that the new trilogy will resonate better with the youth of today. Personally I think that the only reason why the OT is better is the casting, and the fact that George Lucas only directed one of them. My God can you imagine ROTS by Peter Jackson's hand or Spielbergs? Is George Lucas even there when the actors are performing? The only scene that actually looked performed with some sort of sincerity was when Anakin sees Obiwan while speaking to Padme after killing the Seperatists. And don't even get me going on the ridiculous Darth Vader/Frankenstein shouting NO! I groaned. He should've just dropped to the ground when he hears what he's done to Padme.
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May 20, 2005 1:42:42 AM CDT
"Do you remember your mother? Your REAL mother?" How could Lei
by sithlord_999
She's known to use decoys nonstop throughout the prequels. I think she is alive. Her 'will to live' returned when she say her babies.
It was weird seeing this movie. I liked it. But it was weird. -
I meant to say "when she SAW her babies"
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...to be honest. I was very disappointed by the representation of the Jedi Council. I always thought they'd be a noble bunch of Knights that protected the galaxy. The coolest badasses this side of Tatooine...but the way they've come out, particularly in ROTS, is as a group of pompous self-righteous, self important and pretentious elitist jerks...I want to think that perhaps George Lucas was using the Jedi Council as some sort of representation of the Catholic Church but to be honest, I doubt it.
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Damn. In years of these movies, have you guys not yet grasped that they are loosely based on the old Flash Gordon serials of the old days? The NOOOOO was perfectly in tone with the rest of the series. Padme's death is not a plot hole- Leia remembers her "real" mother dying when she was a young girl, and that "real" mother was the woman who raised her: Queen Organa. How could Leia possibly know Luke was talking about the person who gave birth to her. He asked about her real mother. She answered about the only person she ever knew as a mother.
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Palpatine in Beverly Hillbillies cameo: "Are you threatening me, Master Jed?"
I don't have strong feelings about the movie, although a few things annoyed me, such as the incompetent battle droids who, when they have a chance to actually shoot a non-moving enemy target, don't shoot. At least not if it's someone important to the storyline. (Elevator shaft.) -
Ok, the story is dumb and the dialogue and acting are often poor, but no one else is making these big sci-fi CGI spectacles. On that level, I enjoyed it and was very entertained by it. I have to detach it from the original Star Wars from my mind, I find it quite well-done.
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Is 'SITH' the other only SW movie that counts aside from the OT? I'm going to see this movie again tomorrow and I will have the answer. Right now I'm almost tempted to say... YES!!!
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I've been rolling my eyes on every single one of your NERD(ogre on)posts since you first decided to flame. All you do is flame yourself. I mean seriously, are you for real? Do realize just how lame you sound when you come at me with shit like "do some reasearch before you post" nonsense? But yet you keep comming back with your wannabe Morrisson-irony. You are so predictable. I just KNEW you were gonna babble some shit about "homophobia". I never said you were gay, I just said you sucked dick for food. "from a boy who uses'anal'in his ID". What that's supposed mean? You turn around and do same thing retard...'real mature' 'how clever' as you might put it. Like Lucas using a fucking absolute to declare an absolute...the fucking stool-hack. Oh, and I don't believe Shmi's name is mentioned in TPM. I'm not sure, I haven't watched it in years...nor have I watched 500 times like you shithead. Yes, believe or not, some names aren't heard in the films. "Ewok" for instance...not uttered ONCE in ROTJ. Shmi...what a stupid name anyway. Even the actress was like WTF? You really are an uptight little bastard. You can't even be cool when I try to end shit on silly note. Take out the old rag, and insert the new. What? Can I expect the word 'sexism' to appear somewhere in your next snappy retort? Oh, and I'm so impressed that you managed to find some pussy in between reading EU-books and playing SW-Galaxies.(I know you do bitch) I'll bet she weighs 300 pounds+ like you. And to continue on the cliche-busting train...it's only a movie. You're in no position to be calling me 'boy' when you display such childish passion for the childish creation of man-boy Luc-ass. I know, I know, it's "so mature of me to make fun of his name" I promise not to use it in vain again. Go fuck yourself yourself you boring shmuck. Last words...you can go to hell-hell-hell
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...my love resides in pre-Berman Trek and Donner Superman within the geek realms. But damn. Lucas may not know how to write or direct intimacy but when McGregor is yellig "you were supposed to be the chosen one" it was the stuff of legend. Lucas did what I never thought he could do after the abysmal Phantom Menace. He connected these prequels to those originals superbly. He evoked the iconology of his own world and even managed to do it justice. I fuckig loved it. And I aint a Star Wars fan boy.
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Holy shit are there a lot of posts already. I haven't seen the movie nor read any of these crazy ramblings, but I'm guessing that most of them are devoted to how "this line" or "that line" totally ruined the movie for the speaker. That's a shame, really.
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May 20, 2005 2:07:03 AM CDT
Hey George Don't Blow All The Secrets in The 3rd Act...
by animator-freak
Thank the freakin lord 210172. I've waded through the talk backs looking to see if anyone else mentioned that Lucas has completely blown any and all surprises in Ep4-6. When your kids sit down to watch the Star Wars saga, by Ep 3 they will know Anakin is Vader and Luke and Leia are related. Brillant. And while blowing the surprises in future films, Lucas never really addresses the questions of the prequels. Who the fuck ordered the Clone Army? Jedi Master Syfin Dyus (sp)...who the fuck is that....Obi said he died but I guess it was Sidious... and its alluded that Sidious may have used the dark side to create Anakin....some clarity there would have been nice. And before people say that I'm hating on the ROTS. I did really enjoy the film..it was my favorite of the prequels. I just wish Lucas had taken more care in the fact that its a 6 part epic and allowed some of the surprises to work themselves out instead of blowing his wad at the end of Ep 3...
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May 20, 2005 2:11:01 AM CDT
No, there was no "mon-mothma" you mean the red-head limey-bitch
by wonkabar
All I can say is...remember to bring your glasses next time you four-eyed twat. Maybe stop playing that Sith lords game all day and your eyes might get better nerd...remember, it might be kinda hard to fuck your fat-bodied gal in the ass with your stormtrooper outfit still on. And you may not recognize her when you get home I shaved her back.
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yeah if Lucas tries to say that they should be watched I-VI I think he's doing a grave disserevoce to the ovies. Firstly, no one would be interested in the universe after "Menace". Think about it George, if that was the first Star Wars movie ever made there wouldn't be a second. Certainly not on the same scale. And secondly, the audience should GASP when they hear "No, I am your Father". They should watch the birth of Darth Vader KNOWING WHO HE IS TO BECOME. They should know that that LUKE will bring balance to the force. My kids will watch them IV-VI and I-III. End of.
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I saw it at the midnight show. I kept thinking that I needed to see it again. So I went again today. It can't be this bad. It can't. Yet, it was. The horror of it all. So bad. How do you have all this money and all these years to come up with something good and we get some story written by little Georgie Lucas from the 1st grade. "But guys, they gave me a gold star for my story." My gosh. This was the one that was supposed to knock us on our ass. Let me lament:
1) Um, did you notice how Grievous didn't even need to be in this damn movie? No importance at all.
2) So we saw Wookies and they had absolutely nothing to do with the story. They were just another planet where the war was going on yet he keeps bringing us back there like we are supposed to care.
3) The "NOOOOOOOOOOO" scene. Need I say more.
4) Acting. Is it too late to bring back Leo? Leo, we were sorry for calling you a pansy during Titanic. Please, forgive us.
5) Dialogue. I know Star Wars always had over the top dialogue but this one seemed like a rough draft from a kid in Jr High.
6) Two movies in one? Anyone else feel like just too damn much was going on in too little time? Yeah, thats what you get for sticking that 9 year old kid in the first one. Now we barely have any screentime watching Anakin turn bad.
7) No clone wars? Are you shitting me? Um, isnt that supposed to be a huge period of importance? That's like saying "Screw having sex with Salma Hayek, I just want to kiss her and then we will just go have a cigarette. No sex needed." Waste.
Ok, any good stuff? A few:
1) Any part with Palpatine. Man, that guy can take turn dialogue and make me think I'm eating steak.
2) Mace Windu vs Palpatine. Yeah, that was pretty cool to see.
3) Anakin vs Obi-wan was allllllllllrrrright. Not great but alright.
If Lucas comes out tomorrow at a press conference and says he made a mistake and is sorry we all bought these dvds and paid for tickets and was going to remake it......I'd be totally for it. These last three were horrible. -
Why was it necessary to have battle droids having conversations? All they should say is "Rodger, rodger" and that's it!!! Oh yeah this movie owned and if you didn't like it you need to get the stick out of your ass.
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whoops, I mean "turd dialogue"...not turn
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Yes, even better than ANH & ROTJ (which is a close second). In their eagerness to put the movie under the microscope, the folks who are bitching about details like Vader's "Nooooooo" and Anakin's reaction to the pregnancy (which I interpreted as "But I've been gone for 11 months??!!") have missed how good the movie is AS AN ENTIRE MOVIE. From the opening title crawl (best since ANH), through the Coruscant battle, through the revealed pregnancy as the *entire reason* Anakin falls victim to Palpatine and the dark side, to the destruction of the Jedi and the exile of Kenobi & Yoda -- it just rings true. The links that are revealed to the past and future of Anakin just add to the experience.
As we left the theater this afternoon, my 18-year-old turned to me and said "When we get back home, I want to watch the next movie (ANH) to see how it fits together". We did, and it does... -
but will likely be in the DVD. If you buy or look at the ROTS Visual Dictionary, there is some stuff about her. Lucas has said the the TV series will be about peripheral characters between Eps 3 and 4, and I think a Mon Mothma led birth of the rebellion story line would be a pretty good basis for the show. Hell, a guy like Jimmy Smits could come back on the show and di little bits here and there, considering his importance in the Rebellion.
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PS: Did you and CptKirks2Pay play hide the salami with Michele Heaton after ROTS was over????
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I meant to say "ROTS is better than ANH & ESB (which is a close second)" -- Horrors... I'm sure I'll be haunted by Ewoks for that post.
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May 20, 2005 2:35:49 AM CDT
EPIII could have been great at the hands of a different director
by electric dreams
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May 20, 2005 2:43:37 AM CDT
krullboy-I know. I think there was some more wookie-stuff and so
by wonkabar
Yeah I'm as big an SW geek as the next guy. I only bash out of love. Please do not reply to my posts anymore Ricker. I mean you can if you want. But my ability to take you seriously was vaquished from the get-go. I almost think you're just a super-skilled troll trained in the stealth-nuance-art of mimicing an uber-uptight freakquel-phile shmo...you say yes and I say go-go-go...it's time to go.
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That alone makes this movie one big missed opportunity. How disappointing!
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Hope that stuff makes the DVD too...adios boys. I gotta go get it on with my blow-up doll. anal-out
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I thought we had a special relationship here. *sniffle* Hope ya didn't take anything personally; I sure as hell didn't. Anyway, if you want it, I've got a flashlight for ya so you can find your way out of the closet.
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So the Mothma scenes were cut, eh? That's actually goddamn funny, seeing as how a Mon Mothma figure was released. "Come on, kids! Get your Limited Edition Mon Not-Actually-Appearing-In-This-Movie Action Figure!" Or something.
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May 20, 2005 2:56:32 AM CDT
Lame Directing. In a crucial scene when Vader learns of Padme's
by electric dreams
Who dreams up SW names anyway? Mace Windu sounds like tribespeak for Mac Windows.
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May 20, 2005 3:04:17 AM CDT
Of course you didn't take anything personally you dickhole-bitch
by wonkabar
Not when I use language like above. But of course I begin once again to fall under your evil spell. You're good man. Impressive, most impressive. Thanx for the flashlight offer, but I'll just stay in the closet for awhile....it's been real babe.
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If I have to read one more " R2/Yoda never did (insert action) in the OT so how can he do it before that I'm gonna be sick. Like Padme said to Anakin in AOTC "We live in a real world. Come back to it!" It's a movie, made with the available technology. They didn't have the means to do any of this in 1977-83. Now they do. Take a friggin minute to suspend disbelief, which you should do in a movie like this anyway! It's ok if you don't like the movie. I liked it, but not everyone has to. Understand that since this stuff is fiction and not real, the use of new technolgy to tell stories that take place before the originals is ok. It's not like George edited the OT with a flying R2D2... umm, yet.
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...I was disappointed in what a LIAR Lucas makes out of Obi-Wan. Of course, I've always had a problem in Eps.4-5, about how Obi-Wan explains who Darth/Anakin is in relation to Luke: "He was killed by your father/ He really is your father." Now, it seems there was one more major "lie": that Anakin gave Obi-Wan his lightsaber to give to Luke. ("Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough...") Well, did anyone even see Obi-Wan pick up Anakin's lightsaber at the end of their duel, let alone hear Anakin say, "Give this to the son that I don't even know exists?" So, did old Ben Kenobi lie to Luke? Was that lightsaber he gave to Luke even Anakin's? (Seriously, did I miss something in Ep. 3? I guess I'll have to watch it again a few more times to be sure, heh-heh!) Or is it just a MAJOR continuity error on Lucas' part? That said, the movie kicked ass, I loved almost every bit of it, even the "No-oooo!" at the end. I was surprised at how moved I was by the film; I felt it was powerfully tragic and sad. Best parts: when Palpatine tells Anakin to kill Dooku, and you see the shocked and confused look on Dooku's face, but he says nothing to destroy Palpatine's elaborate ruse. Yoda taking out the Clone Troopers who try to assassinate him. The duel between Darth Vader and Obi-Wan. ("I have the high ground.") And was I the only one who thought that Palpatine DELIBERATELY lost to Mace Windu? Because if Palpy had won, then Anakin would've seen Mace under the Chancellor's lightsaber and not the other way around. I think that Palpy could've zapped Windu even while he was being disfigured: it was all a PLOY to sucker Anakin into helping him and killing Windu. ("Oh, I'm so helpless against the mean Jedi! Save me Anakin, release your ANGER!") Because after Anakin does attack Windu, Palpy smiles in victory and zaps Mace with "UNLIMITED POWER!" And Anakin turning on the Jedi younglings, "What do we do, Master Skywalker?") Seriously, the betrayal of the Jedi was some fucked up shit! Anyway, to sum up: The circle is now complete and the third episode is the charm! Thank you George Lucas for entertaining me with you visions of a galaxy far, far away for so long now. (Yes, I was one of those seven year old brats watching "Star Wars" with google-eyed fascination back in '77) I look forward to Eps. 7-9, which will be produced, if not directed by your kids in twenty years from now...
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you got it good, english speaking world, in the german version of the movie, darth vader is screaming "aaaaddriiiiiiaaannnn" instead of "noooooooooooo"
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I caught the 12:01 last night and this movie actually made me feel for the characters (certainly can't say that about the last two). I found the end horrifying, bleak, depressing. This movie TOTALLY changes how I will view Vader. Dare I say it?---this movie makes me want to be a better person to my loved ones. Corny but true. Evil has never looked so bleak...
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I love SW too; when I have kids, I would love to take them to the theater to (hopefully) see 7,8, and 9. That being said, I have no idea what the hell those movies would be about, considering that the saga is principally about Anakin. Considering that he is now just a ghost, playing Hallowen tricks in Ewok Village, what happens next that would involve him? I have never read any of the expanded universe, and I highly doubt Lucas would include ANY EU stuff in 7-8-9. I am by no means a screenwriter, but it would take an awful lot of talent to create something worthwhile and necessary in 7,8, and 9 to facilitate their inception. We'll see. As Yoda said, "always in motion, the future is."
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Revenge of the sith is awesome. When I saw the first ten mintues of Phantom. Something didn't feel right. The first ten minutes of sith - it felt right. The darkness, the increased action. Fantastic.
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Screenplay: sitthy. Padme's death: bullsith. CGI: Lucas doesn't know when the sith has already hit the fan! Direction: go to peter jackson and make him a rich man for directing VII - IX!
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Imagine how gutted every Christian would be if Jesus Christ actually re-appeared tomorrow. The beliefs the thing and its always better in your head.
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Simply because back before episode one there were no Star Wars haters. EVERYONE loved it and EVERYONE was excited when Lucas announced the prequels. However, George Lucas gava=e us a haunting hint at what he can and will do when given complete creative control. The Ewoks from Return of the Jedi was the writing on the wall.
The Phantom Menace was such a complete failure and hatchet job on the franchise that words can't even describe it. The Star Wars apologists all gripe about the haters pointing out the minor plot holes and such. Sorry folks but these aren't minor plot holes, these are major fucking plot craters. And the sheer stupidity of it all with that dumbass Jake loyd and his 'yippeeeee!!!" remarks or him flying that naboo fighter and saying real cool things like "WOOOOOOAAAAHHHHHAA!!!!", or, "Twisting might help", that dumbass parade at the end with that glowing blue ball, and that DUMBER THAN DOGSHIT FUCKING RETARDED Jar Jar, that even most kids hate. And I know kids hate Jar Jar because I once attended my little nephews birthday party that had a Star Wars theme to it, and they were giving away prizes, and the poor kid that won the Jar Jar figure got laughed at by all the other kids because none of them wanted Jar Jar. He didn't even keep it. The only 3 people on the planet that like Jar Jar are George Lucas, Steven spielberg, and Harry Knowles. Well wait, the hardcore Star Wars apologists like him also and still think Phantom Menace is a masterpiece.
Phantom Menace created all the Star Wars haters with the midiclorians ( or whatever the fuck they are called), virgin births, dumber than dogshit retarded fucking Jar Jar, dumbass battles in the end with no explanation as to why they wanted to take over Naboo in the first place, and that dumbass kid flying the naboo fighter like it was some kind of toy and acting like he was playing an arcade game for the first time. Oh and did I mention that DUMBASS FUCKING RETARDED IDIOTFUCK JAR JAR. The only redeeming values of Phantom Menace was Darth Maul, and since he was the only cool thing about the movie, George Lucas had to of course kill him off and make sure he only got 17 minutes of screen time.
Thats why Attack of the Clones did so much worse revenue wise compared to Menace, because so many people were disgusted by Menace. Thats why A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are so cool and well loved because for those George Lucas did not have complete creative control and he had people on Board like Irvin Kershner and so many others who clearly had a better understanding of Star Wars than George Lucas himself.
Now I just got back from Revenge of the Sith, and granted it is good, and in some parts great, but there is no way I'll believe that George Lucas had all the control in it. I believe the reason George kept Jar Jar out of it was because of all the fans screaming bloody murder and ordering him to get rid of Jar Jar. But even given that, I'm sure there were quite a few incidents where George had to be physically dragged from the editing room because he was making a dive for the keyboard to get more Jar Jar in the movie. Although he scored some small victories of stupid cute scenes with R2D2.
This movie was clearly made with Lucas in a straight jacket while so many others took over, with an occasional incident of Lucas breaking out of his strait jacket and giving it the Lucas touch, before they could wrestle him back into it again.
So many people here are saying Lucas redeemed himself with this movie. No fucking way. It is not humanely possible to redeem the atrocity that was Phantom Menace and the near atrocity that was Attack of the Clones.
Basically the best you can do is simply pretend the first two don't exist, and simply settle with Revenge of the Sith.
So remember all you Star Wars apologists. There were no Star Wars haters before epsiode 1 -
Dude, you seriously need to take your medication....but excellent points and I agree with most everything you said.
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May 20, 2005 4:42:31 AM CDT
"no explanation as to why they wanted to take over Naboo in the
by krullboy
The fact that Naboo was invaded is not important; the fact that the seeds of a civil war were sown there IS important. Sidious did not give a blue fuck where the war started, as long as one did. Being from Naboo, he would have intimate knowledge of the political machinations, security strategy, and weaknesses, hence Naboo being the target. Sidious knew that the Trade Federation would a much easier time subjugating Naboo than say Kashyyyk. The resulting political crisis that would ensue would creat a power vacuum in which he could attain power. Wars fought over trade routes are not a foreign concept. Check out Thucydides' "The Peloppenesian War", of anything about the Punic wars or ancient rome. These commerce-induced wars created politcal landscapes that enabled driven individuals to take power. I am not going to cut your balls (or ovaries if you are a woman) off because you hate SW. I love SW, but I give you credit for creating a well thought out argument. Most people, like MinasTirthII, could learn a thing or two from you.
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Lucas reclaimed some of the lyricism that was in the OT with this film, but those moments were too few and fleeting. Too much of this film still had that inelegant, clamatious and stilted style that the first two films suffered from...And one nitpicky point. I know the Star Wars movies never pretended to be scientifically accurate in any way, but when the ship they were rescuing Palpatine got hit and tilted, and they slid down the inside of the ship, why would that happen? They were in orbit above Coruscant, so they couldn't have been reacting to its gravity, and if the ship generated its own gravity field, wouldn't down always be down no matter which way the ship tilted? Again, I know the movies were never big on obeying the laws of physics (explosions in space?), but this doesn't even make sense by the laws of the movies.
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In my personal order from best to worst: Eps 4,5,3,2,1,6.
And a ton of speculation with how the tv series will go from here. The comm codes being changes obviously means well see other jedis in the tv shows that survived and not just obi wan and yoda. Will vader take possession of Padme's body while he and Palpy search for the fountain of youth? How far can the force go>? Resurrection? Seriously if we dont get at least a good 12 episodes with palpy, vader and yoda in them out of the 100 planned Ill be peeved (I doubt obi will show up). A good story arc involving them is a must. As well as young versions of Luke and Leia and their new families...
And a couple tv movies with a post ep6 story would be nice (a la thrawn's trilogy)...
Cmon Lucas use Mark Hamill while you still can damnit! I miss the ol lug :(...
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Yet you claim the Ewoks from Ep VI were the writing on the wall. Nice try, fuckface. There's been haters from 1977 onward. -
Fah Q! Oh, boo hoo, I guessed wrong.
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Saw it this afternoon. Definitely the best in the prequel trilogy. THE GOOD: Excellent SFX, good score, better writing, improved acting from Christensen & Portman, Ewan- solid as ever as Obi-Wan, nice cameo by Jimmy Smitts, story ties up loose ends well. THE BAD: Anakin's final turn to the dark side-The stakes were high for him to be sure but I think they should have been portrayed in a much more extreme and gut-wrenching way to explain his excrutiating dilemma: Continue on the side of light w/the Jedi-the people who literally saved him & gave his life a purpose or embrace eternal darkness in order to save the woman he loves. We should be just as upset w/Anakin's choice as Padme, Obi-Wan and Yoda are. As it is now, it works but in a much more compressed and watered down way.(Sorry Harry). THE UGLY: Anakin's loss of the lightsaber duel w/Obi-Wan. Unusually grahpic for this series, perhaps a tad much. *Some lingering questions*(SPOILER ALERT): Why does the senate blindly follow the chancellor after he declares the Republic an Empire and himself The Emperor? Doesn't ANYONE else feel like Padme and Organa?...Why wouldn't Vader hunt down Kenobi after Obi-Wan made him extra-crispy?(I mean he's completely F'd. The kid was angry before but now?)...If the Emperor sacrificed Dooku in favor of a younger, more powerful apprentice, why does he keep Vader around after the duel, even going as far as to take measures to save his life?...Yoda almost defeated The Emperor on his own, why not regroup w/Obi-Wan & Organa and attack again instead of going into exile?...Why the F bring up Qui-Gon again? We don't see him "communing" w/Obi-Wan or anyone else in the original trilogy...WHY does Padme die?(Wouldn't it've been cooler if Anakin in his fit of rage did kill her as The Emperor suggests and had to live w/that for the rest of his life?)...For the twins protection, Leia is taken in by Organa and will be brought up as his daughter and Luke is left w/the Lars clan but his last name will remain Skywalker?(Uhh, doesn't this seem like a basic "witness protection" mistake. Granted Luke Lars would suck but Vader & The Emperor know Padme died giving birth. Wouldn't they be looking for any offspring, espcecially, The Empereror, as it/they may be a threat to him one day?)
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http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_3/news.php
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May 19, 2005
Critical Consensus: -
Now that we have seen Episode III what are we going to do with Ep 1 & 2? I love Star Wars but alot of the stuff in the 1st two episodes is really hard to sit through but there is good usable material there. I love the idea of making one big prequel movie using bits and pieces of Ep 1 & 2 and most of Ep 3.... Maybe some of the stuff in Ep 1 could be used as Anakin/Obi-Wan flashbacks. Lots of creative possiblities here.
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Seriously it's huge. My slow-ass internet took forever to get me to the bottom of the page.
btw THE MOVIE ROCKED ASS.
Second favorite Star Wars film, right behind Empire Strikes Back. Though I was disappointed by how little Wookie action we got to see. Somehow I got the impression they had a bigger part in the story, but it was really just some kind of cameo.
I feel unfulfilled in my hunger for more Chewbacca backstory.
GGGGRRRRRAAAAAWWRRRRRR!!! -
thought it was just me...
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Krullboy, you say that the fact that it was Naboo that was invaded wasn't important. But it WAS important - it created a "sympathy vote" for Palpatine.
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May 20, 2005 6:10:00 AM CDT
This is freaking hilarious!! Go to this URL to see Yoda chugging
by krullboy
http://www.compfused.com/directlink/610/
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What I was saying to the moron that said that the trade route stuff was crap was that the invasion served as a vehicle for Palpatine. Should have clarified that; and your point is great, and I should have remembered that. I just get pissed at people that think things like trade are not important, when obviously commerce and trade are huge factors in conflict.
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May 20, 2005 7:41:12 AM CDT
Why can't you haters accept you're in the minority this time?
by darthflagg
Face facts: For the vast majority of fans (and most critics) this is the best Star Wars film since 1980. Flaws aside, it has all the action, drama and emotion you could wish for from the last Star Wars film ever. Hate it all you want, but you'll never turn us to the basher side. You've failed. The whole saga will live on forever as one of the greatest achievements in movie history.
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Actually, Some Dude, as I recall you were anything but guessing at the time. In fact, you went to great lengths to intellectually and emotionally motivate your convictions and scoffed at the notion that anyone else might be correct in saying your theories were wrong.
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It was fine. Considering the characters (and writer) it had to work with, I think it met expectations. The action scenes were horrible - totally incoherent and lacking any sort of tension. It was hard to see what was going on in the light saber fights beyond flashing blades half the time. And they were very boring to watch. Just watched Zatoichi a few nights ago, and that was a movie that really showed how to make sword fights fresh and interesting. As far as the actual plot goes - I kind of dug it, besides some of the valid criticisms raised above - I personally think it's terribly laughable that Padme would "lose her will to live" after giving birth to twins. Um,isn't mothering the entire reason for her biological existence? If that doesn't give her a will to live, it's hard to imagine her ever mustering the energy to take a breath... But I did find Anakin's turn to be believable - it's a combination of pride, fear of loss, envy and jealousy, and throw in a little bit of accident and bad luck. I thought most of the acting was pretty good. Even Samuel Jackson was better in this one because at least he looked a little more pissed off most of the time. So I guess my review is: plot - 9, acting - 8, writing - 4, directing - 5, special effects - 9, action sequences - 2, score - 2, sound effects - 6, overall - 7/10.
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What did you all make of this confrontation? Especially when the emperor is whining that he is too weak?
How much of it was Palpatine pretending to be weak so Anakin could intervene and how much of it was him being overpowered by Mace?
I'm a bit confused because even Yoda struggled with the Emperor a bit, yet Mace disarmed the Emperor a bit too easily... -
... I hear Japan has it even worse and won't get to see SW3 until July (maybe they'll move it forward). I'm relieved that it's at least only a week for Korea, I thought it was going to be much worse. I think "The Grudge" only opened a week or two in the cinema before it came out on DVD in Australia - and it was filmed in Japan! They seem to have the latest opening dates for just about anything that comes out.
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just saying.
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i was kind of thinking that too. that he was feigning the "poor old man" thing to key into Anakin's weird mix of sympathy and powermad sociopathy. i also thought that the "wounds" he suffered were his actual face, but he calls them wounds in order to generate more support. maybe not though. A brilliant film. I can't believe that opinion isn't unanimous on this. I think some fanboys will never be satisfied, and actaully get more out of hating than loving. I'll be the first to say that TPM and AOTC are both massive disappointments sprinkled with some cool moments. ROTS, on the other hand is a goddamn masterpiece. I loved it.
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I liked the movie overall, though I did go into it w/ lowered expectations, despite the positive reviews. Few things I disliked: I hated the dialogue of the battle droids, especially the super battle droids. I always thought they looked menacing, until Sith, when they spoke in a wimpy, whiny voice. Why have them talk at all. I also hated the fact that the dorky Medical droid tells Yoda and Obi Wan that Padme is basically dieing of a broken heart. Just let her die in childbirth w/ no explanation. It took away the emotion of the moment. Things I loved: The relationship between Anikin and Obi Wan. Finally, I felt some attachment for these characters and bought the fact that they are like brothers. The scene of Obi Wan walking away as Anikin is burning alive is beautifully tragic. I liked Artoo. Some say it might have been stupid, but Artoo kicked ass in this movie. The way he just pops out of his socket on the fighter, the way he stands up to the battle droids. Funny. Why wasnt he the comic relief in TPM instead of Jar Jar? Oh and those that ask why Artoo can fly in the prequels and not in the OT. Maybe the jets just dont work anymore, he is much older. My car is 6 years old and things dont work on that as they once did! The best thing about Sith though, The intercutting across the galaxy showing the Clone troopers mowing down the Jedis was a great segment. The best scene in the movie though is when Yoda walks into Palpatine's office and takes out his gaurds w/ a swipe of his hand. So cool!Now, I have two questions? First, did Palpatine turn all old and ugly after his fight w/ Mace, or did he just reveal his true identity and didnt feel a need to hide it any longer throughout the rest of the film, including the scene of him addressing the senate? And two, maybe I missed it, but I assume the emporer ordered the Clone army be created, but what about that whole Master Sifodius thing in AOTC? Did Palpatine order the Clones under a dead Jedi's name? Was it that simple, or is there something I'm missing? Go see the movie if you haven't, it's worth it!
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Doubled Return of the King!
Loved the movie, this will be the first film that I will see more than once for the first time in six years. See the DLP version, I've never seen a better picture. Film is dead! -
Horrible, grade-school dialogue. Wooden acting. The first battle looked great, but the Count Dooku scene was retarded. Grievous was dull. I was laughing at the movie within 10 minutes. The effects were fantastic, but I don't go to see a movie for a light show. I LOVED Star Wars when I was a kid, but these last three turds have shown me just how much of that love was focused on Empire Strikes Back. The original cast had five times the charisma as this new one, but nothing would have helped with that script.
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I can honestly say that I walked out of the theater satisfied with this film. The last 30 minutes were sheer brilliance. Yes, there are some cringe worthy moments through out the film but nothing that ditracts from the overall film. I had a lump in my throat towards the end. I actually felt for the Jedi and especially for Obi-wan and Yoda. I am sorry to see this saga end. I have been a huge Star Wars fan since I was 3 when my dad took me to see Return of the Jedi. Episode 1 and 2 were huge let downs but ROTS definetly eases the disapointment felt from the 2 previous movies.
I thin Episodes 7-9 will be made eventually. There is just too much money to be made from these movies. -
That's what makes it so tragic - had Anakin not turned to the Dark Side, she would have lived. His prophetic dreams of her death were fulfilled by his own actions.
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May 20, 2005 9:19:20 AM CDT
I'm always flabbergasted that people leave partway through movie
by rev_skarekroe
Even if it sucks, I'm not paying money just to go home again. Are you guys made out of cash?
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It was everything a Star Wars movie should be. I loved it.
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He picked it up as he walked away from the crispy critter...
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This isn't so much a plot hole, just an interesting statement in "Empire" that wasn't addressed here... remember in "Empire" when Luke first arrived on Dagobah? He said something like, "I don't know... there's something familiar about this place." I've always looked forward to seeing what Luke meant by that; my guess at the time was that he was hid on Dagobah for a while as a child before finally ending up on Tatooine. Oh, well, I guess not. Unless in the upcoming Star Wars TV series, there'll do an episode or two where they need to move him there temporarily to keep him safe. That would be fun, and tie things together nicely. As far, as Leia's memories of her mother, I figure that in "Jedi" Leia was simply remembering what her adoptive parents TOLD her about her mother, or was recounting what she saw in photos or videos (or whatever they call such things in the Star Wars universe). Finally, in "A New Hope", there's really no way to explain the clearly inaccurate statement, "Obi Wan? Obi Wan? Why, that's a name I haven't gone by since, oh, before you were born." Other than faulty memory. So why don't we just say that's the explanation there. Oh, yeah... Overall, I thought "Sith" was great. I'll see how I feel in a few days, but for now, other than the Tarzan yell (I can't believe he threw that in AGAIN!), I loved it. I particularly liked the many moments of moral ambiguity. I mean, think about it: at the moment Anakin "turned", it was because he wanted to do the RIGHT THING and bring Palpatine in for questioning, unlike Mace, who was giving in to anger and was going to just kill him. I loved that.
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Seeing ROTS a week later is like being Kyle in the "Chinpokomon" episode where he is always behind the hot, new fads that the other biys have. There was a premier "charity" screening in Seoul, but the proceeds went to the South Korean youth soccer association. Somehow, I don't associate "youth soccer" with "charity". Now if the proceeds would have went to tsunami victims or AIDS research, I probably would have slapped down 200 bucks for a ticket. . .but to give that money for a sports related thing, not so noble, so I elected to wait until the nationwide releas on May 26th.
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Why did Grevious have a nagging cough? He sounded like a old Mafia guy with lung cancer. Why does Lucas make these moronic decisions. You have this "badass" leader who can kill Jedi, yet he walks around coughing. Stupid stupid stupid. Another instance of something with great potential that falls short due to poor decision making.
You can'e even compare this with ROTK...not even close. -
Well, personally I liked it, i thought that the acting was tremendous compared to the prior two prequels, which in fairness wasn't that much of an acheivement. Hayden's delivery was much better as he seemed to enjoy the role more than be intimidated by it, however the dialogue was still poor. Overall good movie and I will see it again today. The Original Trilogy is still incomparable but I feel that lucas has finally started to get into his stride too late. I only hope the tv series takes some ideas from revenge of the sith with acting qualities from the original trilogy :D
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I was well aware that I might be wrong. The point was, that I wasn't wrong until Ep3 said so. There is still nothing in Eps 1 and 2 that conclusively proves what Ep 3 shows. The guess was that Lucas was keeping it open-ended to trick us in Ep 3. That's the wrong guess. Others were scoffed at only if they stated falsely that Eps 1 and 2 ruled the guess out or that Lucas had already come out and said it explicitly, which he hadn't and still hasn't. (Not that I am arguing for the possibility anymore)
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I watched the clone wars and General Grevious was a pussy in the film, I mean come on!!
Best part was the troopers turning on jedi, actually felt emotion from it :-S -
Actually, you do see Obi-Wan pick up Anakin's lightsaber after their battle on Mustafar. Of course, Anakin doesn't say, "Hey give that to my kid when he's old enough, you bastard", or anything like that.
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So, Bail Organa has C3PO's memory erased. I guess that explains a few things.
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May 20, 2005 9:55:49 AM CDT
From the moment Mace goes to confront Palpatine and it all kicks
by gordonsalive
I found the dialogue a tad melodramatic but highly enjoyable. Although, I swear one of the first lines Grevious delivers sounds just like Scotty from Star Trek... anyone else notice that?
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As far as I'm concerned, ROTS redeemed Lucas. Now, don't get me wrong-there was some cheesy and misdirected dialogue, but it was still very well done as a whole. I think it was definitely the second best one in the whole six movie series. Obviously "Empire" being the best. But nonoe of the other movies-and I did say none-even come close to bringing out the emotions that ROTS evoke. The emotional rollercoaster that ROTS puts you on is sheer genius and very well-directed. Personally, I will never look at Darth Vader the same way again. He went from being a faceless evil machine to a human being trapped inside a metal shell. Star Wars is very personal to me, and I'm not ashamed to say it. Anyone who was five years old in 1977 and saw the movie is a damned liar to say that it hasn't had any kind of effect on your life. It's going to be hard to adjust to knowing there are no more Star Wars movies on the horizon.
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he had that cough because in "Clone Wars"-the animated series-Grievous was wounded in the chest by one of the Jedis while kidnapping Palpatine. Thus, explaining him hacking and coughing and grabbing his chest. "Clone Wars" basically ended where "Sith" starts.
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Firstly, i thought the movie was ok. There were some great moments like the fall of the jedi (apart from some of them being owned like pathetic bitches) anakin defeated and Ewans delivary at that point was great, yoda was amazing for the most part. But there were so many things that were wrong, the pacing, structure, painful lapses in logic, the turn did NOT work, the action was a lot weaker than tpm and aotc which i found unfathomable the duel in TPM was so much cooler than ob1 v anakin and that is unforgivable. The whole vader Noooooooooo thing, seriously how could ANYONE think that worked, I can only assume Lucas has gone completely insane to let that in the movie as well as the various examples of awful acting. God, I so wanted to love this film, but its all over now, no chance of redemption now George. Still, thanks for the OT, unfotunately the prequels have tarnished those films for me too. Goddamit Lucas is frusting. I wonder if people like Doug Chiang actually tried to give some contructive criticism and then ended up unemployed for having the balls to point out the obvious to the great blind one. For all those that harp on about haters, many have raised valid point which no one has tackled other than to say it was good and people who were disappointed are wrong. I enjoyed AOTC more than this, despite its flaw, there were much less painfully illogical moments and anakin going crazy worked well in that film, plus the action was more enjoyable and flowed better. To reitterate what another talkbacker said "what have i done?", "oh fuck it, yeah ill be darth vader." George, what were you thinking??????
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This part of the story is so tragic so sad and should be filled with emotion... and it barely scratched the surface of that. The people in the audience should've been in or near tears by Anakin's betrayal. But we hardly see any of that. All of the time spent showing us how good he can be to save the republic we barely see him at his worst when he destroys the guardians of the republic. We don't get to see him cut down the other other Jedis, we don't see the horror of the other Jedi's faces as he attacks him, nor their pleas for him to stop or screaming "what are you doing???" He's the hero of the republic and he's killing his own men - That's Drama folks!!! And we didn't see it. Nor did we see him win those fights as he attacks 2, 3 or 4 Jedi at once. The horror of it all took place off screen. (And no, I don't want to see him murder the kids) Would it add time to the movie, yes... so cut out the second part of that overlong rescue of Palpatine or don't... a movie of this scale can be 2:30 or 2:45 or 3 hours long... why? Because there were three other movies that long that made millions and millons of dollars, and did stir up some emotion. Lucas can do whatever he wanted and he handed us a flat, barely emotional popcorn flick. If that's what he wants to do, fine, it's his movie, but I was dissapointed and that's how I feel. As far as emotion - in Fellowship, you don't have a sole if you weren't moved by the Hobbit's reaction after Gandolf fell or Borimer's last dying words after he tried to redem himself or in Return of the King when Frodo says goodbye to his friends or even when Aragon sees the four hobbits and says "My friends, you bow to no one" and kneels and EVERYONE KNEELS down to them. THAT'S WHAT I"M TALKING ABOUT. THAT'S WHAT "SITH" LACKED. And that's what "Sith" needed. There's more emotion and elation in playing Knights of the Old Republic (esp. when you decide to go to the dark side with Bastalia and kill everyone else in your crew) than there was with "Sith". Someone else should've written it and someone else should've directed it. I was planning on seeing it at least 3 times but I only need to see it once. Lucas will still be using $100 bills as napkins, but he blew it.
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they read exactly like this one. that tells me that when the dust has settled, ROTS will not have the fanbase to support a universal opinion of its quality. probably will get labelled the "best of the prequels" and the world will move on.
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Look, we have come to site since it went live and have been waiting for this film for 28 years. You know the story. It has been repeated in every single review on this site. Is this film perfect? Hell no! But guess what, it is much better than it has any right to be. The first two are techno marvels and not much else. And in this one the slow parts are really slow, but the second half is a blast. The Jedi Purge seqeunce is fantastic. The two duels at the end do their job. This film has it share of problems. If Tom Stoppard really did do a script polish, that is not something I would brag about. Despite the problems, this is the best Star Wars film we are going to see from George Lucas.
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May 20, 2005 10:27:39 AM CDT
One of the best reviews and analysis that I've read of ROTS and
by johnnytremaine
http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/628vifsm.asp
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I had seen Clone Wars, but had forgotten about that incident. That makes sense, but for the sake of the character, he could have lost the cough so that he would seem more formidable. Thanks for the info.
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Reminded me more of Calculon.
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...when Padme said "Luke"? That moment was fucking awesome. With hindsight, wouldn't it have been better for Hayden to have been in Episode I, with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan discovering a petulant teenager? He could be like a younger Luke, stuck on Tatooine with dreams of something bigger. The relationship with Padme could have started then as well, and a deeper seduction to the dark side could have started early in Episode II. Ah well, this was Lucas' vision. I enjoyed the ride, wished the first two could have been better, but Episode III was fantastic!
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I'm sure the Nooooooooo is actually a reaction to a cutline of dialogue from the emperor when he whispers to him.
"Sorry... We couldn't save your obi wang" -
.. 28 Years Later!! And it's finished. Thanks for the Memories Mr L. Narrative and story-telling?.. fuck off and watch French art-house bullshit!! All that darkness.. and then that big white corridor... now where have I seen that before?? Class and thanks!! Much better viewed 2nd time around... can't wait for the specials on DVD...and the live-action adventure.. by the way a feature in Empire (UK Mag) about Hasbro.. mentioned that 2007 was gonna be a big year for fans... what's the meat guys?? Any ideas what this is?? THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES GEORGE!!! CLASS!!
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The R2 scenes were great. The scale of the first space battle was great. We already knew Anakin/Padme interaction would suck, but it was better than my low expectations. I loved the on-screen violence, and that it wasn't hidden off-screen. I lost track of the number of severed limbs. Sure Anakin's fall was quick in this movie, but it was a long time coming. The Emperor had been grooming him for a long time... He probably even planted that dream in his head in the first place. Anakin wanted to be bad ever since we first met him. He wanted to rebel, he wanted to break the rules. He had no strong role model, no source of dicipline, so it was only a matter of time before he just let go and went with his true desires. I loved the strong imagery, such as the piles of jedi bodies, Anakin's burned torso writhing in pain on the operating table, his look of fear as the mask descends... Anakin going bezerk on the seperatists, killing everything in sight... These are the images that will stick with me. The evil, the violence, the horrible things that had to happen to reduce the Jedi order to a few scattered hermits... And watching the Emperor go completely nuts was really cool. I also liked the fact that there were no 'impossible' building to fight in. No bottomless pits for no reason, no impossibly high catwalks with no guardrails, no pointless red moving force fields... I can live with the few weak bits, because the good stuff was so very good.
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May 20, 2005 11:18:10 AM CDT
Lots of eyecandy that evaporates when you think about it logical
by malx
Par for the PT course.
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Is it just me or is the helmet size to body size proportion significantly different from the originals. Maybe it's just because Christensen is not as tall as David Prouse. Anyway, it somehow does make him look like a guy in a cheap Vader costume. Also, the line "you and I can rule the universe together" as spoken to Padme was the biggest cringe moment in the movie for me, it seemed like a parody of what Vader said in ROTJ. I also didn't think that Vaders turn against the Jedi was convincing. First he wants to help Mace Windu arrest Palpatine and then after he stopped him from killing Palpatine and Palpatine blows Mace Windu away, he just thinks to himself: "I guess I was involved in the death of this one, might as well help Palpatine kill all the others." ??? Not convincing.
Apart from that I found the movie very satisfying. -
Man, Clerks really did a number on the general public. I remember a day when people debated which SW movie they liked best, but ever since Clerks argued that Empire was the best all I here is everyone copying those thoughts and comments. Not that I care, but it is kind of annoying.
Also, I liked Sith. I will see it a couple more times and still like it. I will buy the dvd and still like it. But I also like Menace and Clones. Are any of the 6 SW movies the best movie ever made? Well, no. But they are still my favorite movies ever made. And they always will be. -
So are we to believe that The Emperor is Luke's Grandfather?
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How could this line have possibly made it into the film? Obi-Wan basically says: Absolutely dealing in absolutes is absolutely evil! WTF!!!!!! Regardless of the whole Darkside Starwars Jedi Sith stuff, and the fact that only moments later Obi-Wan says: But Palpatine is EVIL (which is a pretty absolute thing to say) did nobody at Lucasfilm see the inherent paradox and hypocrisy in saying ONLY (which is an absolute term) dealing in absolutes makes a person a sith. Oh well.
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Extremley poor storytelling...
Lucas really blew it.
I guess I can put this behind me and move on with my life. -
May 20, 2005 11:44:01 AM CDT
"So are we to believe that The Emperor is Luke's Grandfather?"
by rev_skarekroe
Maybe. One of the things I liked about this film is that that's open to interpretation.
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I saw the post and decided to do some research. It turns out that back on January 25, 2001 a post regarding the extras on the Phantom Menace DVDs was the first mention of it on our site. Here is the URL of the post so you can see for yourself. http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/tb_display.cgi?id=5083#114820
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May 20, 2005 11:51:38 AM CDT
uh, Clerks was just echoing the popular sentiment since like, '8
by spacehunter3-d
There was a short time when folks thought ROTJ was the best. Really. But Empire has pretty much ALWAYS been regarded as the best. I know I liked it the most since day one. I used to argue with friends at school when I was little. Jedi has more action they said. But Empire has more drama I would counter. Even back then I thought it ruled. I've never even seen Clerks all the way through.
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I don't believe for a second that when you were little you argued for drama over action. Gimme a break.
Lobot-omy just stated what everyone knows. Thanks, someone finally said it. Cheers to you! -
This is an old topic, but I figured I'd post an answer anyway. Naboo was part of the plot because Palpatine was a senator for Naboo. It's that simple. Naboo gets invaded. Palpatine sweet talks the Queen (then Amidala) into total distrust of the then Senate leader, Chancellor Zod. (heh heh). When Amidala goes "no confidence," of ocurse all of her support is going to go to her own Senator, Palpatine. And then he gets elected. And then he starts a war. And then he gets the idiot Gungan to give him emergency executive powers. And then democracy dies with thunderous applause...
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I wanted to enjoy this film, but I felt unmoved and disappointed by it after seeing it in the theater yesterday. The main problem, in my opinion, is that I didn't give a shit about any of the characters. And after thinking about it, I never learned jack shit about any of these characters during the entire arc of three prequels. The subtle details of life that make characters interesting were completely abandoned in favor of effects and spectacle. I learned what these characters are, in terms of their role in the story, but I never learned who they are, which is Lucas's most glaring shortcoming. Another problem I had with the film is that nothing unexpected happened; no turns or twists that I didn't on some level expect. My third major problem I had was that we never learned more about Padme... her story could've been the most compelling of them all, the tragedy and betrayal she must've felt that led to her death, but Lucas chose to play her like a chess piece on a board rather than a real character. So sad, really. So many missed opportunities for Lucas to make a great movie. But instead we were served an emotionless cookie-cutter of a film with marginally cool special effects for the kiddies. And now because I care so little about Annakin and Padme, I care a lot less about Luke, Leia, or any of the characters in the orginal trilogy. The only Star Wars I now dig now is "The Clone Wars" DVD set, since I found this story far more compelling than any of the six silly, cookie-cutter movies. You could've been great, Geroge. Now you'll always be remembered as pretty good.
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remember, his core *original* audience is now 27-40. We're no longer little kids and even though it's financially smart for him to cater to our kids, he should recognize that we're adults now and can handle something more mature. Like it or not, PIXAR has been doing this for 10+ years now. The guy just can't write. The dissapointment overshadows the small pockets of good. I agree with another person above, time to toss it aside and go live my life. Oh maybe I can try to get one of those things called girlfriends now... nah who am I kidding, I'm to fat.
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Top Ten Star Wars Fan Euphemisms For Not Having A Girlfriend
10. Camping alone outside the theater.
9. My force is no longer with me.
8. The Death Star is not yet operational.
7. The Empire's striking out.
6. Shaking hands with the wookie.
5. Darth Vader has no place to put his helmet.
4. Oiling the droid.
3. Unable to set coordinates for the planet Babe.
2. Spending the night with Han Solo.
1. Tractor beam not powerful enough. -
and that the last 3, or even all 6 of his SW movies suck...because of dialogue, direction, acting or whatver...but if you want to see something truly bad turn on a Sci-Fi Channel Original...or watch the old USA: Up All Night movies. Now that is bad...
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The visual spendor is amazing, like nothing you have ever seen before, packs more imagery than LOTR and the Matrix series combined into the one movie. You could almost say that about the opening space battle alone.
But, there are times when there is no central focus in those battles. Lucas is so meticulous and byzantine, he fills every single corner of the frame with something moving in the foreground, mid- and backgrounds. It looks sumptuous, but it's kinda overwhelming, as if Lucas made a point to never ever be outdone in the history of cinema.
It seems to me that Lucas would be better off with Jackson's eye for a central visual focus, an ear for dialogue, and instinct for casting great actors. Even though Lucas obviously worked hard pulling a stream-lined script together, the fact is, everything is secondary to his obseesive attention to fantastic space technology and visual overkill.
Alas, that's what I receommend about it -- the visual overkill. And truthfully, the story does play better than both Phantom Menace and Clones.
Samuel L. Jackson is better this time (but that's not saying much -- never has a great actor been so wasted wilting on the screen. Lucas is unable to capture Jackson's larger-than-life screen presence, but admittedly, he has better material this time).
The guy who plays Palpatine/Sidious is great, and the way he turns Anakin into Vader is on the one hand brilliant, but on the other somehow doesn't resonate with me in the motivation dept. (I mean, I can understand Palpatine's motivation, but Anakin's is petulant and the beats on it somehow don't feel right.)
There are a few good lines in the movie, but overall, the dialogue is as clunky and dreadful as ever. As is the stilted acting.
There are three classic camp howlers in the movie: one involving a romantic scene between Anakin and Padme; one a line delivered by Yoda; and the last a Simpsons-esque moment delivered by Vader. This was an audience pumped and ready to love the movie -- none of these three moments was intended to be humor -- but the crowd was very audibly groaning and laughing out loud at how awful the moments were.
The cycle is completed with a good transition.
Overall, it is better than the last two combined, I liked it more than Jedi, but not as good as either the first one (Episode 4) or Empire.
Having said all that -- yes, I will definitely see it again. As a technological marvel it is stunning, a real feast for the eyes, even if it does at times lapse into a confusing video game. And the way Anakin gets disfigured and the fear in his eyes as the Vader mask is placed upon him is awesome. I also like the film not ending with a happy ending -- a Star Wars first.
There are two new pieces by John Williams in the film that I quite enjoyed too, they were subtle, probably why I liked them, most of the time Williams is a bit too bombastic for me.
It's not the masterpiece some fans swear it is, just a huge relief that it doesn't suck like the last two.
For me, I rate it 7/10. I guess the best I can say is that there were moments where I was genuinely spellbound, sitting like an idiot with a grin on my face, interrupted by moments of atrocious groaners (the casting of Jake Lloyd as the kid in Ep.1, and Hayden Christiansen in these last two as young Vader, were truly monumental casting disasters).
Take it to the bank!
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"ROTJ
by Neighbor Jim 2005-05-16 18:55:51
I have no idea why ROTJ gets the most shit out of the OT. It's chock full of great moments. Luke single-handedly taking down Jabba's crew, the revelations from Obi-wan, and Yoda, The Alliance risking it all on one offensive, the showdown with Vader and the Emperor, The Millenium Falcon just tearing it up, Wedge and Lando flying into the Death Star, Vader's redemption. As for the Ewoks, they were kickass. They threw down on "an entire legion" of the Emperor's best soldiers. Without them the war would've been lost, and the trilogy would've ended on a hell of a downer."
You are 100 percent right. When I saw ROTH way back when, the crowd went wild, and when Vader saved Luke from th Emperor, the theater literaly SHOOK
from the hugh roar from the crowd. In Sith (and this was at the 3rd screening at the Zigfeld in NYC) people only claped a bit for Yoda, and R2D2. CGI CHARACTERS! I've been waiting for the rush I got from ROTJ for years. DENIED. -
I'm not going to trash the several dozens problems with this film.
But couldn't Lucas have spared us, in the middle of the darkest act of this saga, his stupid love of 60's cars?
We have Yoda and Jimmy Smits cruising around in a converabile pink cadilac... jesus christ. -
Damn - that was the best opening day screening EVER, and the perfect way to take the last steps of a cinematic journey I've undergone since I was 17. It's with pride that I saw each of the prequels with my son. Last night at the multiplex was awesome...I don't know what was funnier - the guy who missed the ending of the prior performance because he'd gone for ANOTHER free refill of his soda, or was it the insane guy behind me who came in full Darth Maul regaila with his wife and kids. (My friend, if you're reading this - I mean "insane" in the nicest possible way. You were uber-cool and my hat's off to you.) I thought he was wearing a full face mask...but no - he'd shaved his head, applied the red & black makeup and fashioned horns out of the ends of carrots that he GLUED to his head. Ya GOTTA admire that ! Any film that inspires a grown adult to stick vegetables to his cranium gets my vote. On to the film itself. Sheer ecstasy. This film has not only redeemed Lucas, it has totally validated the sequel trilogy and provides a smooth bridge to the originals. My only quibble is that how come none of the Jedi could detect through the Force that Padme was carrying twins ? Or...if you take the theory proposed by a friend of mine that they might have registered as one life-force..how come then, in a society that reqularly travels interstellar, everybody seems to own a robot or droid, cybernetic implants are routine...where are the ultrasound scanners ? That aside..that last scene with baby Luke being delivered to the Lars farm as his stepfather watches the binary sunset. Perfect, George...just perfect. Your name came up on the credits and I was totally satisfied that we had closure. I can't wait for the disc so I can watch them back to back...it's actually work. Lucas pulled it off. Even Captain Anitlles had 70s hair...there was a guy on the bridge of Vader's ship that looked like a younger Peter Cushing. Perfect details. I have one question - Lucas's cameo. Did anyone catch it ? Where is it ?
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No lushs sets to let the characters run around in, in this trilogy. Only boring, fake looking cgi worlds.
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Please do not try to be sarcastic and clever,it looks like you posted with your mobile,either you are a retarded cunt, or just a cunt,or your just pissed off with the world because you are so ugly you would make an onion cry.
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I think it's pretty damn clear that the Emperor was the one that manipulated the midichlorians to make Anakin's mother pregnant. So yes, he is Anakin's father, in a way.
The only thing left open is quite why. Was he trying to create a powerful apprentice? Did he try this more than once?
The film was okay to look at it. Bloated and strangely uninvolving though. -
Vader got took out because obi-one was standing 3 1/2 feet higher then he was. " Its over anakin, I have the high ground....WTF? Also Anakin would have turned to the dark side for a fucken snickers,ROTS just made him seem like an evil bastard not a tragic hero.
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But considering that I had very low expectations, that's not saying much
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Horrible script. Bad acting. No character development. No clearcut motivation and the motivation given is trite and unbelievable. Harry Potter rips off Lucas and Tolkien, now Lucas rips off HP__________________________________________________
SPOILER:
How did Padme, not even to term, give birth to two HUGE babies when she looked less than six months pregs with one baby?
YET...
Yoda & Mace rule. Especially Yoda...best actor in the bunch. Visuals are stunning.
Lucas still has a place in my heart for recreating the movie-going experience oh so many years ago. One or two disappointing movies will not spoil that. Don't have to say I like this movie because I still respect Lucas. -
I agree... Darth Maul had high ground over Obi-Wan and look how that ended.
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I think it is stupid that people are still unsure... just because Palp didn't spell it out or show a birth certificate. He is clearly the creator. When he told the story, he clearly was going back into the past... (and not just 18 years or so)... which is how long ago it would have had to happen if Plag created him... but he didn't. Palp did.
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was fighting with his rage as his source, so it isn't surprising that Kenobi smoked him once Maul thought the battle was over. Oh yeah...and Anakin was fighting with hatred as his source, so once again it isn't surprising that he got smoked as he tried to flip up and over Kenobi. AND since that is the same move Kenobi did to Maul, don't you think Kenobi was expecting Anakin to do it? Obviously he did because he whacked his legs clean off.
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May 20, 2005 1:05:13 PM CDT
In the EMPIRE dvd, George had completely ruined any of Vader's c
by george newman
As a stand alone film, without the knowledge that Vader was Luke's father, one could infer that in the beginning of EMPIRE, Vader was 'relentlessly pursuing [luke] Skywalker' because: A) he was the kid that destroyed the Deathstar, or B) he sensed some sort of Force strength in him. At the end of the film, Vader's true motivation is revealed to be that Vader, knowing all along that Luke was his son, wanted to turn Luke... This is completely RUINED during the newly edited Vader and the Emperor exchange on the DVD, a change which was made for the prequels. ORIGINALLY, the dialogue went down like this: E-"We have a new enemy, Luke Skywalker, he must not be allowed to become a Jedi" V-"he could be turned"... This dialogue in no way suggests that Vader does not know that luke is his son. IN THE NEW conversation, it goes like this: E-"We have a new enemy, the boy who destroyed the deathstar, the son of anakin skywalker," V-"How can this be true?" E-"Search your feelings Darth, you know it to be true".... Now this exchange makes sense in that in EpIII Anakin thinks his kid is dead. (His anguish is demonstrated by the terrific "NOOOOO!" he emotes.) However the connection is NULL AND VOID because of EMPIRE's Opening Freakin' Scrawl in which it says "Darth Vader is Relentlessly Pursuing SKYWALKER"!!!!!!!!!! VADER even says, right before the attack on Hoth, "The rebels are there, AND SKYWALKER IS WITH THEM." Now unless Skywalker is the Star Wars 'Smith' (which it is not; Lucas said that 'Antilles' was, heh!), DARTH VADER'S MOTIVATION IN THE FIRST 9/10s OF EMPIRE MAKES LESS THAN ZERO SENSE. I was hoping, somehow, dear GOD!, that Lucas would fix the GIGANTIC plot hole with some plot twist in ROTS. I had expected that he made this change so that he could throw in one more plot twist, for the sake of plot twists. But no, he created a plot hole, for the sake of plot holes. *fart sound*
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If Bail Organa is a senator, how is his daughter a princess? Do they elect royalty on Alderaan?
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Why didn't Liam appear in Return fo the Jedi if he is the one that taught Yoda and Obi? Ugh... looks like yet another DVD collection is coming. I can already imagine 6 more rehashes of the collection. Sick, eh?
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So Darth NEVER visited his uncle? Not even to kill him? Whatever.
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Because you were supposed to infer that Palp killed Plag in his sleep. Later, after Annie turns, Palp tells him that only one Sith Lord knew the secret of life, but together, he and Annie would learn it. P.S. I with that the babies born at the end were cgi. That would've truly made it a perfect ending.
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I mean his cousin
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OK whatever. these prequels fry my brain
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I WISH that the babies born at the end were cgi. That would've truly made it a perfect ending.
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You are right... forgot about that line... however, I think Palp didn't intend to let Anakin know that he was that apprentice. He doesn't want Darth to know he could have saved Padme.
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, but I seriously cannot believe that *you* (that is, the haters) didn't LOVE this movie. I have been really disappointed in the prequels, and have bashed TPM and AOTC at length, but I was absolutely stunned by ROTS. Immersed. Enraptured. It was brilliant; a goddamn masterpiece! I walked out of that movie emotionally drained and completely satisfied. I seriously think that many of the haters only hate cause it's fun to bash and argue and insult each other in increasingly disturbing ways. I feel sorry for you. Can you enjoy anything? Or does the joy merely come from hatred and pointless arguments? Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the arguments here reach such a level of anger that it's really sad. I feel sorry for you.
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why kill a distant uncle on a complete waste of a planet that holds no value (except the income of the blackmarket kickbacks)?
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'cause I'm one of the 'haters' you so lovingly feel sorry for. To tell me that you were emotionally drained when you left this movie really says alot. It says to me that you've taken this all way more serious than I ever could. To tell me that it was brilliant and a goddamn masterpiece says alot also. It says that you really need to look up brilliant and masterpiece in a dictionary. Again, thanks for feeling sorry for me. Right back at'cha.
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To paraphrase a brilliant masterpiece...
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Your post pretty much sums up my attitude; I've been criticizing the prequels for five years on AICN - anyone who doesn't believe me can even look up some of my previous posts on the list of old Star Wars articles. But I haven't criticized ROTS because there really isn't anything there to criticize. I admit, I bought my expectations very low for ROTS; but the point is, I didn't need to. Most of the haters here come into one of two categories: [1] - Haven't seen the film, but have their own agenda against it, so they choose to come on AICN and vent like 6 year-old girls. [2] - Have seen the film, but have severe, and I MEAN severe, anger management issues - possibly sexually frustrated, or unhappy in their jobs/school/kindergartens. I've seen it twice now, and it still fucking rocks like Chuck Berry. Sorry haters, sorry - hope you've enjoyed the ride. Maybe now this is over, you'll all disappear and AICN can go back to being the fun site it once was. Thank you, and Goodnight!
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Ebert proves (once again) he's a massivly huge moron who knows nothing about much of anything, except his own pontificating.
Ebert says, in his review, it's not the last Star Wars Movie because 20th Century Fox will put gobs of pressure on George to do more movies, especially since VII, VIII, and IX exist "in his head". Bullocks. Because 20th Century Fox is simply a DISTRIBUTOR FOR THE FILMS. LucasFilm bankrolls them, they produce them. So, what 20th Century Fox might like (or not like) is irrelevant. -
Funny how sith and shit are anagrams of one another? Yes thats right, I hated this film, and here's why. Lucas loves showing us THINGS WE HAVE SEEN OVER AND OVER ie CGI. The opening shot didn't blow me away, it bored the hell out of me, as did Anakin and Obi-Wan's dire dialogue as they fly to the ship.
Beyond the CHi there are some larger problems, namely pace and editing. The film is far too long, perhaps because Lucas's scenes are designed to either move the plot forward or show the 'emotions' and 'thoughts' of the characters, but rarely both, as a good scene should. I didn't count, but I wonder how many times the word democracy came up?
The second problem of editing is largely to do with the lightsabre fights. I loved the Duel Of The Fates in Phantom Menace, but here (especially the Grevious / Obi-Wan and the final fight) the fights (which I have reading for months have been choreographed to be the best yet) are shot and edited clumsily to the point wheer you are screaming fro some Matrix-style slow-mo just to make out what is going on.
Don't get me wrong, there are some amazing bits in this film (anakin's realisation that palpatine is the sith lord, order 66, anakin's slaughter) but it takes far too long to get to this part of the film, and then, whne they pass, we get half an hour of exposition (Yoda's Qui Gon bit just sucked - admit it) and Vadar, that big black-ass bitch who scared the shit out of me as a child, now becomes a pansy, because not even James Earl Jones can make the last dialogue sound anything but shit "Where Is Padme?"
I haven't got into the intricate detailed questions that royally screw up the trilogy, I'll leave that to the serious Star Wars fans. But as a film fan, I was disappointed. I just pray it is now over, and the Tv show gets scrapped. -
Here is my dime store review of this movie. Overall much much better than the first two (which admittedly is not much of a compliment) but nowhere near the genius of the OT. The Good: The entire third act of the film was nearly flawless (Vader copying his son's iconic, though now cliched "no" scream, notwithstanding). Finally after 2 prequels, Lucas finally showed up for the job. The fall of Anakin, though somewhat rushed, was fairly logical and it finally showed us just how dangerous and evil Palpatine is (instead of just telling us he is bad). Palpatine totally twisted Anakin's worldview, paranoia and desire to be respected against him and that my friends is what evil is all about. It could have been somewhat tweaked a bit, but overall I was satisfied with the scene which was the entire point to the prequels. I have to give mondo-love to Palpatine as he was the BEST part of the entire movie. In fact, my favorite scene is Pal & Anakin at the opera talking (see above discussion about twisting Anakins hopes and fears against him). Finally, Lucas delivered us a great light saber battle between Obi & Anakin. Finally we get a battle as good as Obi & Maul in EP1 and Luke & Vader in EP5. Also, most of the fight scenes were well done and I have to mention the excellent Order-66 montage. On last point, Obi-Wan once again KICKS TOTAL ASS in this film and the final shot between him and Anakin was incredible. The Bad: The first act was extremely clumsy. The opening shot of the star destroying flying peacefully over Corusant until we switch viewpoints and see the HUGE battle was brilliant, but for the rest of the opening battle I felt like I was in a funhouse ride were all the good scenes were rushing by me before I could really enjoy them. Also, the micro-droids climbing all over Obi-wan's ship was silly, went on too long and WAY too derivative of The Matrix and the Animatrix. I rather just have Anakin and Obi-wan blow the hell outta enemy fighters. Also, how come these 2 Jedi Knights could not just use the FRICKEN FORCE to knock those droids off the ship? Also, I guess Lucas loved the missile chase from Clones, because he gave it to us again here! Also bad was that Grevious was completely useless and did nothing to aid the story. Grevious was much more menacing in Clone Wars and if you didn't watch the incredibly good Clone Wars, you must have been completely confused about Grevious. Here, he was just a total waste of time and his "cough" and hunched over walking made him a complete joke. And also from the first act, I must point out that a ship which has internally generated gravity would not change the vector of gravity's force by pointing down towards a planet in high (zero-g) orbit. Also disappointing was the whole Wookie thing. What did that add to the narrative? It was just to show off Wookies for the fans and give the actor who played Chewbacca a paycheck for about 30 seconds of screentime. Another troubling point is that though I liked seeing construction on the Death Star in the final Vader scene, I don't see how it took 18 years to build it as it didn't become operational until Episode IV. Though Lucas did clean up SOME loose ends, he is still extremely sloppy with his continuity. The Ugly: Happily not much here was ugly (unlike the first 2 prequels.) Once again the acting (except for Palpatine & Obi-Wan) was wooden, especially from Sam Jackson. (I still can't understand how one of the best actors on the planet could allow himself to look so bad). Still overall I really enjoyed this one much more than the first 2 prequels and would put it up there as ALMOST being as good as Jedi. It is worth your time and I think most fans will be satisfied enough. Drakkir Out! Peace!
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I love the movie, and I can safely say that this is a true Star Wars movie, sorry ep. 1 and 2 is not worthy of that. I love how the CGI in this movie looks a lot better and not as sterile as the first two episodes. I love how a lot of the things were explained.
The few quibbles are the Jedi's skills and power were inconsistent. I didnt like Yoda scampering in the end, I thought a worthier resolution to his defeat could have been better. I think Anakin's turn was not done as well as it could have been. If he turned Sith to save Padme, why would he base that solely on his dreams and why would he choke her just because he was jealous and that he felt betrayed, the dialogue there should have been stronger but it wasnt. My big question is, at the end, when the emperor told Vader that he killed Padme, how could he have known that. Was he just lying so Vader will completely turn to the dark side? Another question is if the Jedi's can sense things, not only were they oblivious to Anakin's troubles, they didnt even know that he was co-habiting with Padme. But over all I thought it was great, it's in my top 3 Star Wars movies. -
everything you said. I didn't like ROTS (and yes, I actually saw it. should I show you my ticket stub?). Stop trying to argue that everyone who posts negative reivews here hate for hate's sake. I love Star Wars. Always have, always will. That's why I care enough to read and respond on alot of these talkbacks. I should actually be working right now, but dammit if I can't help but keep coming back here. Don't lump me in with all your imaginary kindergarten/living in mom's basement/virgin/bitter/ hater's club.
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I saw it at midnight, like lots of others here. I thought it was VERY good, not as good as Empire, or NH, but as good as Jedi. My one and only complaint is the pacing is so fast, it borders on frenetic and that can cause some breakdowns in the storytelling. I thought the acting was much better than in Eps I and II, and, while the dialogue is still typical Lucasesque ham (as was the dialogue in Empire and NH, actually) it was delivered with a lot more aplomb. Largely, I think, that was thanks to Ian, who chewed the scenery as the Emperor. The digital effects were some of the best I've seen, anywhere and this, more than the other 2 movies, I think, was what Lucas had in mind when conceptualizing digital technology. If only Jar Jar HAD been completely absent (he's in at least 2 shots...silent, but there), I would have been absolutely ecstatic with the movie. As it was, I was just happy TO THE EXTREME! (Poor Poochie).
I will suggest this: Read the book version. It expands and expounds on LOTS of the events and things don't feel as frenetic or abrupt. Given the movie was already 2 hours and 20 min...it would have been impossible to include much more than Lucas did on screen. The book, however, has no such limitation. It will explain quite a bit (the Padme' thing was explained there, exactly as other talkbackers have said....to "hide" the fact the twins were even born)of some of the interesting, but not completely necessary, details.
One last thing:
Thank you, George! -
i mean half-brother you've only been around for a couple of days.
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This movie is flawed, and those who dislike it have every right to do so, they might even be right about the overall quality of the movie.
I love Star Wars however and I just always will, it's not unlike a vice in some respects for me, and as Churchill once said, "never trust a man without at least one vice".
My favorite moments in the film:
1. Seeing Yoda slump into the chair of the speeder and admitting defeat and also his overall failure. Yoda screws up badly in this movie and when he admits it, I thought it was a great moment.
2. Darth's very first words after he transforms into the Darth we know and love/hate. They were very strong for me, because as someone else poined out, they help illustrate his humanity.
I'd argue, Anakin dies shortly after his second line, when told of Padme's fate. He becomes more machine than man after that, twisted and evil.
3. The scene in the opera house. The opera itself going on the in background, wonderfully surreal and alien, its small bizarre detail like this that really helps make Star Wars seem 'magical'.
4. Seeing the ship that started the whole series, at the end of this one. The set looked great and seemed more real than the majority of sets we were exposed to in the sequels. Seeing Yoda and OB1 talk in front of the famous "door" that marks Vader's entrance into the original series, was a lot of fun for me.
The prequels had a lot of flaws, a lot of them. I don't blame anyone for not liking them. I liked them though, mainly because here and there they had moments that made me smile...and feel like a kid again. -
it makes more sense now...vader doesn't want the Emporer to know his plans to turn Luke and defeat him...there can only be two Sith for God's sake...think people...it didn't make sense in the first place if there could only be two Sith...so Vader wants to turn Luke and overthrow the Emporer, and he should say, "I know my son is alive, but I can't tell you what's up my sleeve."
jabroni thoughts on your part. -
This is why I don't include the new bastardised editions as the story. I pick the original prints nothing more.
I disagree about your Leia comment when she stares at Vadar. I think the reason she does is is to coincide with Han saying "They'll be another time". Her look is to almost say we will get you later. -
I think you guys are reaallly missing something here. The new dialogue between Vader and the Emperor in ESB doesn't mess anything up. You're acting like Lucas wants us to assume this is the first time Vader realizes Luke is is son, but this is simply not the case. It's more like something he is still coming to grips with. It's not like he looks up at the emperor and says "Holy shit! Are you serious?" Plus, since he is relentlessly searching for Luke, and you read this as Vader trying to find his son to either a: Turn him and rule the galaxy together, or b: For his own redeption, then do you really think he would let the Emperor know his true motives? What he tells the Emperor and what goes through his mind are quite obviously two different things. ESB remains perfectly intact.
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... are you telling me that Clone Wars had better characterization than the movies? Puh-leaze. Are you talking about where the clone troopers are firing, or where the clone troopers were firing. Or perhaps where the clone troopers were firing?
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Too slick for it's own good. General Grevious was the best character. I'm just too old I guess. I was never into any character on screen. I was always aware I was watching very hard working ( because of the moron script) actors. By biggest snort of laughter came during a tight shot on Sam Jackson, he says something like "So be it, Yoda will go to the Wookies enclave on Yahweh." or some such hard to keep a straight face gas. That's what I want on the DVDs, blooper reels. Actors trying to get through the day reading this stuff. Like all the Star Wars I've seen from number 6 on, once is enough. No return visit necessary. It's ripe for an extra sound track tinkering. Jar Jar's voice when they show the funeral procession "Meesa so sad." Leia's step dad, replendent in his formal toga when he steps in to confer with Yoda, "doe this make my ass look big."
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I like this movie even more, because of the less-than-subtle slap at George W Bush. When Annikan annouces "Your either for me, or your my enemy", I about fell out of my chair.
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He was in lower right corner sipping some aluminum container of some malt beverage with John Ratzenberger.
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The scene is no different, the motivations are no different. Vader found out between Ep4 and 5 that the pilot who destroyed the Death Star is his son. He wants to use Luke to overthrow the Emperor. The Emperor wants to do the same. The Sith are backstabbing bastards, they are always trying to kill each other when they can profit from it the most. Vader is PRETENDING HE DOESN'T KNOW, BUT HE DOES!!!
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May 20, 2005 2:55:20 PM CDT
Lots of storytelling flaws, but pretty good, and tha'ts the prob
by dagan
This film was fun to watch and "good" despite itself. The overall story here is Shakespearean in scope - it's so good that the mediocre filmmaking doesn't destroy it, but it also doesn't support it nearly as well as it could have. This story could have been one of the great movies ever. As it stands now, it just comes off as "pretty good". The film's pacing is off, it is far too "rushed", and the scenes are either comprised of action or people just standing there talking to each other. Plot information is rarely revealed in visual ways, or creative ways in good scenes like you see in good movies - plot information is almost always revealed with one person outright telling another exactly what's on their mind, or exactly what's going on. Show, don't tell - Lucas has lost this basic idea of good filmmaking, and things are far less powerful as a result. The film delivered a bit of an emotional punch to me, but the film itself wasn't nearly as responsible for it as everything I carry WITH ME as a fan of the Original Trilogy. On its own, the film isn't very powerful. The writing is bad, the scenes are handled in a dull manner, and the geography of the story and even the physical geography of the action scenes isn't well-handled. Sure, the opening was "fun" and full of nice-looking stuff, but you never felt any sense of real danger or excitment - that feeling was earned often in the original trilogy in various action scenes - because the geography of story and physicality were well done in those films. Where are the cinematic "moments" in this film? Remember Luke coming up into the carbon freezing chamber, putting up his blaster and the lights coming on, and that breathing, and Vader up on the catwalk, Luke slowly walks up, they stare at each other, and then both ignite their light sabers? A beautiful cinematic moment with minimal dialogue(none at all from Luke), and a sense of it taking its time. It's awesome. NOTHING even remotely like that in the prequels, not even close. Everything in these is so rushed and visual storytelling is mostly abandoned - people can't shut up. Remember Yoda training Luke on Dagobah? Mysterious and slowly building - it takes it's time - and it's great. Nothing even remotely like that in these films. The storytelling is just not there anymore. This "talky" impulse even sabotages the emotional resonance of Vader's first actions in the suit. The dialogue there was terrible and ruined the emotion - Vader shouldn't have said ANYTHING there, just dipped his head like he does and go crazy with the Force - let Anakin "die" for real in that moment, then the Emperor comes around and Vader finally says "Yes, My Master", so you can hear that voice, and confirm that Anakin is now truly gone. That would've been far more powerful, but Lucas has lost all ability for subtlety. This film was good, but only because the story is so good. It should have been an all-time classic, great film, and it is not even close. This movie is far better, light years better, than Episode I and II, but it is nowhere near what it could have and should have been, and nowhere near the filmmaking or storytelling excellence of the original trilogy.
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May 20, 2005 2:59:31 PM CDT
Jimmy smits had a bigger than expected role and he was quite goo
by spacesheik
he gets decent screentime with yoda in this
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YEP.
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A lots been said about Lucas's anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war innuendo, and he's encouraged the talk.
But Lucas is at heart a philosopher/movie maker, not a Michael Moore/movie maker.
From Obi Wan: "Only a Sith Lord believes in Absolutes" (or whatever). Lot's of historical figures (including Dubya) have acted in absolutes, but for the sake of this argument, let's just mention one: Jesus. He preached absolute morality along with forgiveness of sin and all-embracing love, which is the whole point of Christianity.
From Anakin/Vader: "If you're not with me, you're my enemy." It's similar to Bush's statement in the wake of 9/11 to a frightened nation: "if you're not with us, you're with the terrorists."
But that's not really what Anakin/Vader says. In fact, Vader's quote is more similar to something Jesus said: "He who is not with me is against me". Mat 12:29.
So Anakin/Vader is not the Star Wars equivelant of Dubya. He's Jesus!
And Anakin/Vader follows the Joseph Campbell motif (Lucas's relativistic guru) for a savior: he's born of a Virgin (his mom was impregnated not by a man, but by the Force), he became a priest (Jedi), dies and/or descends into hell for his sins (in the Volcano -note: Christians believe Jesus descended into hell because he had the sins of the world on him when he died), is resurrected or reborn, and ultimately brings balance to the Force/Universe (by killing first the "good but too patient and too remote" Jedi and second the "evil but decisive" Emperor), yielding a new world order, where his son becomes a complete person and will generate the new Jedi Order, how Jedi were meant to be... by using anger and fear for good. Remember, one of the many things Yoda gets wrong is when he says Anger and Fear lead to the Dark Side. Luke ignores him rashly (also a Dark Side characteristic) and effectively uses Anger and Fear to defeat and win Vader back from the Dark Side, by not letting the Anger consume him).
Lucas's philosohy is this: there is no absolute good and no absolute evil, only shades of grey and relativism. Look at his 1980s film, The Dark Crystal, where evil gremlins and good old creatures come together to form blindingly white All Wise Entities. The Force and the 6 Star Wars films rather clumsily advances this philosophy.
The bad writing and clumsy plot contrivances are meant to advance the philosophy, not make perfect plot sense (all with really cool effects).
Clearly, I've thought too hard about this, but I love it. -
It's just amazing to me that pointless, plotless mayhem "filmed" against bluescreens counts as a movie now. Where's the epic grandeur? Where's the wonder? I felt like I should be tapping away at a Playstation controller the whole time. Instead, we get some hideous hybrid of movie/cartoon/video game. But of course if you don't like that, it's your fault you hater. Whatever, retards. Loll about in your mediocre production that looks purty ('cept when the CGI blows, which is all the time) and makes no sense. Oh, and please keep trying to draw parallels between Lucas's "kid's serial" movie to Bush and America's political landscape, as if Lucas has suddenly turned into some sort of Machiavellian genius rather than a fat, lazy shut-in like what you accuse his detractors of being. Christ, the man wrote the back story in the era of freaking Nixon and Vietnam. Whoa, do you think that Duel was really a subtle dig at Reagan somehow? Or maybe Madeline Albright? What about that M&M commercial - was that commentary on the situation in Dafur? Please do continue to grace us with your insightful discoveries in Lucas's paper thin plot, even if you are depriving a Politics 101 classroom somewhere of its back row.
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May 20, 2005 3:07:53 PM CDT
I bet half the dipshits posting "It sucked" haven't even seen it
by sacul1138
bunch of fuckheads who are probably just pissed Mommie wouldn't drive them to the Theater.
I've seen it twice (once in digital) and let me tell you it does rock, it does make I & II a little better as well (if you can look at it as a whole story).
Yes it has some stuff that will be nitpicked to death in the coming years, Yes there's some bad acting (duh it's star wars).
Yes it needs more Wookie action.
But I was impressed that Lucas got the balls to tell the story as dark as it needed to be and this movie rarely panders to kids like I & II.
I can't wait to see where this takes him as he goes to make more small films now.
Let the hate go people or go bother the fans of Torque or something.
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Was Yoda at the Cantina?
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wasn't palpatine in any pain from the lightning scarring his face? i'll buy vader not knowing about his kids being born (didn't it look more like childbirth than surgury? she didn't look that far along to deliver healthy kids). but if they were put into hiding, why would you keep luke's name skywalker...wouldn't that be asking for trouble especially hiding both him and himself on anikan's home planet? and if the emperor knew yoda and obiwan were still alive, why wouldn't he launch a manhunt?
personally, i would have created more friction between anikan and the jedi council...like explicitly preventing him from freeing his slave mother. i would have also have played up more jealousy over obiwan concerning padme. -
What are you people going on about? Chewbacca only met Yoda, who he never sees again in the OT. You think a dumb Wookie is gonna remember a tiny little hologram of a young Obi-Wan and connect the dots 20 years later?
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Take that fuckers
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Thank you! Chewie only runs into Yoda in this movie. He never meets the droids. Never meets Obi-Wan, and maybe sees him as a hologram during the Jedi Council. Never met Padme. Never met Darth Vader. What are you haters going on and on about?
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Why am I one of the only ones to say it?
The fights happen way too fast, the acting sucks, and it's really cliched. Jousting knights? 3P0 in a dress? About two lines of dialogue in the whole thing (beyond the cheesy "let's get 'em!" type dialogue).
I'm really disappointed in the cartoons, because everyone seems to rave about them being more like the "real Star Wars." They weren't horrible, as low budget cartoons go, but I don't recall the original trilogy being anything like them.
And Revenge of the Sith rocked. Hard. -
What am I taking? I loved the movie, but the amount of money it made won't change anyone's mind.
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May 20, 2005 3:23:37 PM CDT
Like the Clone Wars cartoons, but I also like Droids and Ewoks
by nemler
I like it all...except the Holiday Special. Even that I can't watch.
I don't think any of the cartoons ever were like the movies...no different than Clone Wars...but it is still good. I like Jedi, I like lightsabers...I guess I take a pretty simple approach to anything Star Wars related...I think it is FUN. -
it was good. the fact that some scenes tend to be dramatically and logically wrong makes the other scenes even better. if anakin is finally turning to the dark side he`s behaving just way too obedient and calm towards palpatine...that`s wrong...wrong direction...wrong acting. how`d you explain that all of the sudden his whole anger and confused energy has calmed down? but then hayden christensen as an actor and anakin as a character are truly great before that faux pas... the greatness comes back at last in the final obi wan vs. anakin confrontation showdown. padme`s behaviour is as illogical as anakin`s in his too abrupt turn to the dark side. as confronted with the truth about her husband she says or has to say something like .no...unbelievable, which is itself unbelievable as sheself was doubting his way before. however...the whole movie just left me in such a dizzy and great mood as you can only expect it from a truly great adventure-tragedy-action packed film.
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She just had a really fucking huge case of post-partum depression...
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The scene was just fine how it was and left the character intact - it went fine with the Prequel Trilogy, too. The new scene is not only terrible, and ruins one of the best SCENES in Empire by putting awkward dialogue in the middle of what used to be a great scene, but it did tear those motivations down. You say that Vader "still knows" and is just pretending - that doesn't come across to the audience, and even if that were the intent, the scene still makes no sense because why would the Emperor feel it necessary to EXPLAIN to Vader who Luke is, as if he doesn't realize he already knows? Is the Emperor stupid? Or does he think Vader is just monumentally stupid and can't put two and two together? Which one is it? Either one is bad for the movie, and the second one doesn't make sense anyway - surely the Emperor realizes Vader knows who Luke is by now, because it's simply obvious. So why go into all that? Admit it, it makes no sense - the original scene was perfect as is - this new scene tears down Vader's whole character for the reasons I described in my first post in the subject, and even if you believe your tortured explanation, then at best the scene is just a sucky scene that makes absolutley no sense. Which is it?
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I'm tired of everyone giving Lucas a "free pass" just because it's Star Wars. "Hey all the movies had bad dialog" "hey all the movies had wooden acting", etc. Why should I have to lower my expections before going in, it should have knocked my socks off. The bottom line is it was a bad movie with too much CG. Being a big SW fan from the start, I was throughly disapponted by this flick and the so called "seduction" of Anakin to the Dark Side. A few bad dreams and the promise of a power to restore life, please!
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I avoided seeing the first two because they looked atrocious based on the previews. I am planning on seeing this one because it seemed pretty entertaining - do I need to watch the first two (or even read their plots) to get what
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It was more than a few bad dreams and the power to restore life. Cripes man, other issues were layed out from Menace and Clones...but I know you won't rewatch those as you think they suck. Which makes me wonder...why did you go to Sith if you didn't like the Episodes 1 and 2?
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Nope. Sifo Dyas was Sifo Dyas, as explained in the lead-in novel, Labyrinth of Evil.
Thoughtful explanation, though. -
He ereased the Kamino file. He didn't abruptly leave the Jedi Order, he was down on it for a bit before he left, and layed some groundwork while he was still there.
I also generally don't care for the EU, but Labyrinth was kick ass. James Luceno writes the SW universe better than Lucas, I think. Luceno also wrote Cloak of Deception which pretty much was a lead-in to Phantom Menace. I suggest reading those. I doubt you will be disappointed. -
May 20, 2005 4:07:25 PM CDT
Sifo Dyas was an alias used by Sidious (pretending to be a Jedi)
by voice o. reason
Sidious was the person who orchestrated the entire Clone War, so it had to be him. (Obi-Wan has no idea who Sifo Dyas was, and was pretending to know about the clones as to not tip anyone off as to why he was on the planet.) No other explanation makes any fucking sense whatsoever.
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So...ultimately, Obi Wan defeats Anakin because he "has the high ground." Which looks to be about six feet. Don't Jedi have the ability to jump a couple of hundred feet, a la a young Obi Wan in Phantom when he is fighting Darth Maul and gets knocked off one of the pathways? And Anakin can't jump more than ten feet up in the air? I also thought it really ruined the movie for me when Anakin was so casual about realizing the Chancellor was a Sith Lord...."You're the Sith Lord!". He should have crumpled to the ground in a fetal position...his quasi-father-figure-head-of-the-republic is a frigggginnn SITH. Jesus. And the Jedi were so casual, as well...they were like, "Huh. That's interesting. And probably not good."
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Read the book. Plus in the movie he says Sifo was killed 10 years ago...so obviously he knew him just from the movie alone. BUT he was pretending to know abou tthe clone order so the Kaminoans wouldn't wonder what was up.
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The film had a huge day yesterday, but it's a mistake to say "it's already made half its money back in one day!". That's just not true. The theather owners will get some of that - they usualy get about half the take, but on opening weekend of this film they're probably only getting 20% or maybe even just 10%, depending on what kind of deal Lucas got. But that's still money not coming in to Lucas, at least some. Also, 20th Century Fox is distributing the film, and they will not only take some kind of cut as well, but they also no doubt have a huge Prints and Advertising budget here, probably at least $60 million and maybe more than that, to get paid back on before profits start rolling in. Lucas has probably already made a lot from the merchandising, though - but this box office take is not going all to Lucasfilm, certainly, and there's still the big P&A budget to pay back first.---------------------------------------------------------- As for Chewie, I agree that he only really was with Yoda in this film, so it's not "bad" that he doesn't know the others in the Original Trilogy. However, it does call into question why he treats Obi Wan the way he does in A New Hope - "You said it Chewi(who has his hands on his hips and looks annoyed), where did you dig up that old fossil?" He's pretty flippant about Obi-Wan in A New Hope. However, since he obviously knew who the Jedi were and what they could do and that Obi Wan would represent the very last one or two of this order, he should have been much more reverential and appreciative. It doesn't make sense how it is, and we know Chewie knows Obi-Wan is a Jedi, because he's teaching Luke about the Force right in front of him.
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May 20, 2005 4:18:29 PM CDT
Obi-Wan was talking out of his ass about Syfo Dias. He didn't k
by voice o. reason
What book are you referring to? Why the hell would they create a character that has no connection to Sidious to do Sidious's bidding?
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I'm one of those guys who have simply hated the last two Star Wars films, but I still got excited for them to come out each time. It's almost impossible not to. I really wanted to go into this one with the expectation that it was going to be complete shit, but the previews just made that impossible.
That said, I still wish I would've gone into this movie thinking it was going to be complete shit because--let's be honest--it wasn't exactly anything to write home about. I've always thought that one of the weaknesses of the new trilogy was the overuse of CGI special effects and the over-the-top fight scenes (it's not enough to have a cool sword fight; they have to be doing it while they're surfing on lava or riding some dinosaur-combined-with-a-horse looking thing?). This one really didn't cure any of those ailments, but nevertheless, it was still better than Episodes I and II.
I can agree with some people and their comments on Vader's last scene in the movie. One of my problems with Hayden Christiansen has always been how awkward he sounds in the role of Anakin Skywalker. He sounds like he's trying to speak very eloquently, but just can -
After he turns evil and swears loyalty to Sidious...Sidious tells him he really doesn't know the secret Sith life saving trick, AND ANAKIN DOESN'T EVEN BLINK. He should've been all "WTF, asshole, I just killed this motherfucker so you'd tell me how to save my baby's mama, and now you're telling me you don't know how? Fuck that noise, bitch, I'm outta here!" Instead he's all "Anybody else you want wacked today, boss?"
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BEGINNING OF EPISODE 4: The Death Star (the ONLY Death Star...this isn't a class of ships or anything...yet!) is about to become operational when an 18-22 y.o. Luke Skywalker comes into the picture. EPISODE 3: The Death Star's Framework is well underway, and a one week old Luke is jonesing for titty-milk. Sure, it's big, but the entire clone army was manufactured in about a month or so...they have ziliions of little welder droids working non-stop.Sounds like a new installment/series premise...WORK-STOPPAGE OF THE CONSTRUCTION DROIDS
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May 20, 2005 4:26:47 PM CDT
IRO-bot - good post, but you know that's James Earl Jones' voice
by dagan
The lines are bad not because of James Earl Jones, but because they're simply bad, period. It would've been far more powerful to have the suited Vader say NOTHING, and simply crush the droids, etc. defeated. Then rise and say something simple like, "Yes, My Master". But Lucas is a "tell don't show" instead of a "show don't tell" filmmaker these days.
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this sums up exactly how i and many friends who have seen it feel:
Just a Bad Movie!
by Ratphink 2005-05-20 15:37:38
I'm tired of everyone giving Lucas a "free pass" just because it's Star Wars. "Hey all the movies had bad dialog" "hey all the movies had wooden acting", etc. Why should I have to lower my expections before going in, it should have knocked my socks off. The bottom line is it was a bad movie with too much CG. Being a big SW fan from the start, I was throughly disapponted by this flick and the so called "seduction" of Anakin to the Dark Side. A few bad dreams and the promise of a power to restore life, please!
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and 16.5 of that just from midnight showings. Damnation that is bank.
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this is my second post ever---i felt so strong about how this movie sucked, i had to register for talkback. ratphink said it very clearly---it should knocked our socks off...it did not. many in the midnight showing i was at laughed when anakin yelled 'noooooo' after learning padme's fate...the reveal scene was too quick and not dark enough...the explanation for his turning was stupid and the wookie scene too short and not needed. george needs to walk away and count his money...leave us the originals sir and go away...and i mean the ORIGINAL originals...
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No one has ever met Syfo Dias. He doesn't exist. Obi-Wan was blowing smoke up the Cloner's ass so they wouldn't know why he was really there (hence the line "That's why I'm here" when it really wasn't). Obi-Wan was just GUESSING that Syfo Dias was killed ten years ago because he'd never heard of him. Yoda and Mace had no idea who the hell he was either, so Yoda went to the Cloners' planet to get to the bottom of it. Sidious (not Syfo Dias) ordered the clones, and hired Jango to kill Padme, because he was trying to start a really big war that would wipe out most of the Jedi. Not a single fucking thing happened in these movies without Sidious orchestrating it some how.
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I may be mistaken, but wasn't it him outside the opera, tinted all blue?
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May 20, 2005 4:51:59 PM CDT
Question - IF Lucas had made these in numerical order, and the o
by robinp
I reckon we'd all be seeing it an a totally different light, because the baseline for all our reactions would be Phantom Menace. Think about it....
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Saw it again last night. Much more ace on second viewing. During the trailers at the beginnning the trailer for the fuckin' Pacifier (we in the uk ain't had to suffer it yet) came on and the projector was so clearly offended at having to play this abomination that it flipped and chewed the film, delaying the start of the movie but 10 minutes. We did get an ace white screen with some messed up glitchy bass feedback for 10 minutes though, and that was pretty ace!
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He was a Jedi, who followed the living force like Qui-Gon Jinn. The living force followers felt the darkness coming more than Yoda and most of the other Jedi, so he placed the clone order...which Sidious knew about (because he knows about everything) so then Sidious had Dooku kill Dyas as his final test to become Darth Tyrannus. Then Dooku, now Tyrannus, erases the Kamino file from the Jedi archive and splits the order to be a Sith apprentice. Easy as that.
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Still can't figure out how Luke learned of the name "Skywalker". Did Uncle Owen tell him? Why? And why send him to Tatooine, the "center of the universe"? What is Owen farming anyway? And what's that crap that Beru is cooking? Imperial Troops reduced Owen and Beru to smoulering skeletons... I wonder what what that was like - blast them and then soak them in gas.
ROTS was crud. -
the clone army in production could be kept a secret until Sidious was ready to have the Jedi discover them...because not even Qui-Gon knew that Syfo visited Kamino.
And Voice O. Reason, the book is Labyrinth of Evil, which again, is an awesome read. -
you need to put your Star Wars DVDs, VHS, and whatever else you have on eBay, or in your garbage or maybe out on a garage sale...because you obviously have no clue what is going on. Awesome post though...I got a good Friday chuckle out of it.
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Where are you people getting this Sifo-Dyas information?
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Here's an alternative use of the Death Star... rather than crawling around the planet Yavin to get a clear shot "at the moon on the far side", blast the planet and the fall-out will annihilate the moon's inhabitants. If we learned anything from those asteroid movies, its that ASTEROIDS KILL!
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Obi-Wan states that Syfo Dias was killed 10 years ago...which is true...That much is established in the movie. The book Labyrinth of Evil, written by James Luceno, is a lead-in book for Revenge of the Sith. The rest of the Syfo Dias explanation is in there. Now if I could just remember how they spelled it...Syfo Dias or Sifo Dyas...
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I've seen the movie and I have some pretty clear feelings about it -- somehow I've become motivated to share them with the AICN crowd, don't ask me why.
I think I should first establish by way of backgound: like most on here, I am an extraordinary devotee of the original trilogy. As regards Episodes 1 and 2? Well, they're pretty awful. However, I'm not presently on any crusade to kill Lucas -- independent of my dislike of the first two movies and the fact that I think Lucas has lost his ability as a storyteller, I have genuine criticisms of Episode 3.
Am I the only one who was completely unconvinced by Anakin's turn to the Dark Side? This is THE most important element of the first three movies. The remainder has to be considered window dressing (and I say this fully acknowledging that Ewan MacGregor was fantastically good as Obi-Wan, especially in ROS). In my mind, the failure of the first two movies to establish the necessary negative traits in Anakin's character unravels the narrative entirely.
Anakin is petulant, sure - perhaps ambitious, even angry - but from my seat in the theater, how am I supposed to believe that he is capable of calmly beheading Count Dooku, even after pausing to consider it? Andakin pledges himself to the Dark Side out of love, to keep Padme from dying in childbirth, and then 10 minutes later we find him murdering a room full of children? Huh? Am I the only one who found this completely unconvincing?
(Of course, this criticism exists independently of Lucas' alarming consistency to make audiences cringe with his romantic dialogue)
Having said this -- and to show you all that I've considered all sides of this movie -- Anakin's immolation and the conclusion of the movie were splendid. Seeing the bleached interior of the Corellian Corvette made me feel a powerful, warm nostalgia.
To wrap it all up, I'll conclude with a hypothesis (perhaps advanced before here, but like I said, I'm new to this) for debate:
Lucas has mostly lost his ability as a storyteller, and the strongest elements of Episode III are those for which he has no narrative leeway based on what we know from the original trilogy...
(i.e. Obi-Wan has to duel Anakin, the Jedi have to die, the twins must be born and sent to Tatooine and Alderaan, Anakin must don the Vader suit, construction on the Death Star must begin) -
Too bad you weren't dandavis92277, I wish you had as much fun seeing it as I did.
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May 20, 2005 6:22:12 PM CDT
"Where are you people getting this Sifo-Dyas information?"
by voice o. reason
They're getting it from the non-canon Fan fic that masquerades as licenced Star Wars novels.
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In OT she describes their mother to Luke, how could she if Padme died giving birth? That bitch lied to Luke! Also how is Leia a Princess if nobody knows she's Queen Amidala's daughter? She's in hiding her title has also been kept from everyone.
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May 20, 2005 6:23:34 PM CDT
"Andakin pledges himself to the Dark Side out of love, to keep P
by voice o. reason
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I thought Mon Mothma was going to be in this picture. Did I miss her, if so, what scene was she in?
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I'd have to see it one or two more times to take it in, but I think this was the worst Star Wars yet. The prequels just kept on getting worse. To all of you who thought it was great, were people not laughing in your theaters? Nobody was laughing at the jokes, but I and all the people all around me couldn't stop laughing at the "serious" scenes. And these were the serious, first-day, lightsaber wielding, die-hard fans. This isn't a case of me just being a "hater," the laughter was not fake, I couldn't hold it in. The dialog was just unspeakbly bad. I can't imagine people weren't laughing their balls off at the screening with Lucas. The Vader scream should have never made it into a final edit. Lucas is just so disconnected from humanity, it's like he doesn't talk to real people ever, to have come up with such crap dialog. I should feel bad for him but I suspect that he doesn't even realize it. This isn't a case of me not being a kid anymore either, I was 9 or 10 when I saw Jedi and the Ewoks were gay back then too. The good outweighed it though. TPM had great music, the coolest Jedi (Qui-Gon) and the best lightsaber battle of all the movies. It still had a craptacular script, but those elements helped to make up for it. I don't think ROTS had any scenes capable of redeeming it. It seemed like a weak rehash of the cartoon (which was much better). Ewan MacGregor performed alright, even if I've come to hate Obi-Wan for being an incompetant Jedi. Lucas has had three movies now to explain the fall of Vader and he barely touched on it. In fact, it's more of a mystery now then it was before the prequels. We know from AOTC and ROTS that he likes killing babies, ok, but WHY does he like killing babies? I'll stick to Knights of the Old Republic and the cartoon. If Lucas had just put a good scriptwriter and director on this, nobody would know their names, yet everybody would be praising Lucas today as a genious because most Star Wars fans really aren't too picky (hence the positive reviews here), they just want good enough. The movies have always been about the music and the visuals anyway. But the dialog in this movie crossed a line that the old movies corny dialog never approached. By crossing that line, Lucas has made it impossible to enjoy the rest.
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Can you name a comic-styled action adventure movie that doesn't have serious plot holes?
We sit back and swallow the concept that a grown man can turn into a 10 foot raging green monster, just because he's angry but then ask why his pants don't rip?
Perhaps the first Death Star takes 20 years (give or take to build), because there are problems with its original design, perhaps the plans have major flaws, systems fail, there are problems, anyone who has ever developed large-scale software can understand. The second Death Star takes less time, because now they know how to build it right, maybe the second one was being built, even before Episode IV and came online right around Episode VI.
Leia took the phrase "your real Mother" to mean her "adopted Mother". I know adopted sons/daughters that would answer that question the same way.
Plot holes? Bah, there's plot holes in Citizen Kane for crying out loud, it's easily the silliest thing to complain about. -
May 20, 2005 6:34:25 PM CDT
In OT she describes their mother to Luke, how could she if Padme
by voice o. reason
1. The Force. 2. Her adopted dad later became King of Alderaan. Remember, Padme wasn't the Queen of Naboo anymore.
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I think it seems frustrating to us because it almost seems like Lucas is installing them on purpose at this point.
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Yes, Mace Windu getting taken out by a 11 year old kid would've added so much to the movie.
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May 20, 2005 6:43:21 PM CDT
Leia took the phrase "your real Mother" to mean her 'adopted Mot
by voice o. reason
Apparently they don't have dictionaries in a galaxy far, far away. A simpler explanation would be that she had a special connection with her mother through the Force that Luke didn't.
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May 20, 2005 6:49:54 PM CDT
$50,000,000 in one day. SW will be back there is to much money t
by darth voodoo
George Lucas is way to greedy to just let the blockbuster of all blockbusters to just go away. Revenge of the Sith made $50 million in one day. To put that into perspective. The last Star Trek film made $43 million over it's entire run. I'd bet my life (well not really) that at some point we will see Episodes 7,8,9. Imagine how big the return of Luke Skywalker would be.
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May 20, 2005 7:00:05 PM CDT
Imagine the box office for Episode 7 with Luke Skywalker and Han
by darth voodoo
When (notice I said when) Lucas (or someone connected to Lucas) decides to make Episode 7-9 (The return of Luke Skywalker and Han Solo)the box office will make the box office returns of the shitty prequel (except for ROTS)trilogy look insignificant. Lets just hope Lucas is to old to direct the film (although he did a pretty good job with ROTS) and that Mark Hamill and Harrison Ford aren't to old to come back. Lucas will make a great exec. producer for episodes 7-9.
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This is my first post ever at AICN because I felt I needed to VENT how horribly disappointed I was with ROTs. ROTS is supposed to be like a Shakespearan tragedy, but you can't have a tragedy with crummy cliched dialogue and a plot that makes no sense. It's also hard to be enjoying a movie when you're crining from bad dialogue every 5 minutes. Anakin's conversion was so clumsily handled and so unbelievable, it pretty much ruined the rest of the movie for me. One second Anakin was spouting how Jedis use the force only for the good of others, and the next minute he's slaughtering children. It might have been more believable if Lucas just made it seem like Palpatine brainwashed him or something. Instead we're supposed to believe he made a complete 180 degree character change by his free will, and it's just not believable. If it were up to me, I would not have made Anakin's final "turn" to the Dark Side until after Obi Wan beats him and he is disfigured and realizes he's lost everything he cared for in life...
I mean sheesh, did Lucas even try to learn from OTHER "good guys corrupted to evil" movies or stories to get an idea of how it's done? Even if he did a blatant ripoff of another such movie, I wouldn't have held it against him. But I guess his ego is so ginormous that he really doesn't give a shit.
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If it wasn't clear before, the Jedi Council (and thereof the Jedi) in the prequel era are meant to represent the Supreme Court. Political commentary of the Star Wars saga amounts to nothing more than an observation of the cyclic nature of governments, be they democracy, dictatorship, fascism, etc.
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Because I don't get involved in big AICN Talkback arguments, although you guys are sure fun to read.
I greatly enjoyed ROTS. I'm getting ready to go see it again tonight. I felt Anakin's turn was quite convincing, due largely to the acting talent of Hayden Christansen (sp?). There are many moments that I got goose bumps. I loved the final Obi-Wan/Anakin fight. Overall, I look at the prequel trilogy as an enjoyable spin-off of the original trilogy. Unlike many, I admit to enjoying Phantom Menace and, to a lesser extent, Attack of the Clones. They had some significant problems and I do not feel they are as good as the original trilogy, but they were all entertaining spectacles and part of an overall excellent mythology. Thanks for one more round of fun at the cinemas, George. -
May 20, 2005 7:08:04 PM CDT
Dagan - there were plenty of those "cinematic" moment in Sith
by darthflagg
What about the scene where Anakin and Padme stare at each other silently across the Coruscant cityscape? We can see both Anakin's conflict and his destiny being decided in those moment, with only the visuals and music to guide us. Or what about Yoda's silent, yet heartbreaking reaction the start of the Jedi purge? Lucas is still a great visual storyteller, and Sith proved that. I just wish more people could see it.
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Because to me the scene is very simplistic and makes complete sense. Vader found out about his son before the Emperor and is planning to gain absolute power behind Palpatine's back. Simple.
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Anakin is supposed to the choosen one..the one who will bring balance the force. The problem, from the very beginning, is that the force wasn't out of balance. In PM when they learn of Darth Maul, Mace says something like "the Sith have been extint for a millenia". So if this kid was supposed to destroy the Sith and put the Force in balance, red flags amongst the Jedi council should have gone off immediately. Fuck if he's the chosen one then there must be a Sith threat. They should have made tracking down the Sith a priority. Eventhough Lucas denies it, I still feel like Luke it the one who truely balances the force...he is the catalyst that destroys the Sith. Luke reaches out to his father and touches that small part of him that is good, which in turn leads Vader to destroy the Emperor (who still dies in a ridiculous position "i just can't turn off the lightening")..
Regarding Syfin Dyas...we shouldn't have to read supplemental material to understand what the hell is happening in the films..the films should stand on their own...imho
As much as there are problems with the prequels I'm sure we will all tune into the TV series...and would eagerly go see Ep 7, 8 9..
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he kills the Emerpor and allows the rebellion to win
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That is, the non-Star Wars fans. Doesn't mean I'm a "hater", cuz that would mean I give it much much more thought than I ever have. I went into the theatre HOPING that ROTS would the be the one prequel to really fulfill the promise of ESB. Within a half an hour all that hope was gone. It is visually spectacular, no doubt, although even there sometimes confusing and disorienting - but the character/dialogue scenes are without exception god-awful. I can't believe Lucas has such a tin ear!! Forget wit or poetry, he can't even write believable or emotionally satisfying dialogue. A first-year film student could write better. So, how am I supposed to get caught up in this tragedy, when it has all the verisimilitude of a high school play? When Obi-Wan said they had been "brothers"...I was like, when?? I must have missed that. Same with this great love that I should have been mourning between Anakin and Padme. It just felt phony and rushed and implausible (just from character logic) and I did. not. care. And was there ever a more miscast actor than Hayden Christenson?? Anakin never gets to make a dramatic change to darkness, because he was a wimpy whiny bitch to begin with! And how did a good actor like Samuel Jackson get his line readings so flat?? Sigh. The only thing that gave me real pleasure were those few kickass moments when Yoda cut loose. I'm sorry, I know you're only supposed to post glowing positives on here, but I think many more 'civilian' people are going to walk out feeling like my friend and I. "Whatever"... The prequels are sweet eye-candy, but creatively, they are utter and complete failures. IMO.
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can't you whiny people stop bitching and be happy with what you got for once? YOU DON'T OWN THESE MOVIES! if you did, you would have made them the way YOU wanted to. george owns them, made them the way he wanted to, and there's nothing in this world any of us can do that can ever change that (except for george himself), whether anyone likes it or not. just be happy with what you got. and stop trying to relive your childhood through these movies. your childhood is gone. the original films had such an impact on the American psyche that it could never be dupicated, even by george himself. SO STOP ACTING LIKE IT EVER CAN BE DUPLICATED BY WHINING ON THIS BOARD NOW THAT THE FILM SERIES IS OVER! i'm not lapping george's asscheeks by no means, i'm just being realistic. the Star Wars movie series is over, george made the films he wanted (flawed as they are), and there ain't a damn thing we can do about it. THAT'S REALITY, DEAL WITH IT.
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The whole "Padme and Anakin looking out the window at each scene" which is mentioned above and by Harry in his review, was done much better in Apollo 13 with Kathleen Quinlan on earth looking out the window at the same time Tom Hanks is looking out the window of his doomed capsule. Why was it better, because we gave a crap about the characters. And as far as Yoda's reaction, THAT'S HOW HE REACTS TO EVERYTHING!!!!
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...that actually "got to me" was when Bail Organa witnessed the young Jedi (Lucas's kid?) getting gunned down by Clone Troopers and him having to jump in his floater and split.
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'SO STOP ACTING LIKE IT EVER CAN BE DUPLICATED BY WHINING ON THIS BOARD NOW THAT THE FILM SERIES IS OVER! i'm not lapping george's asscheeks by no means, i'm just being realistic. the Star Wars movie series is over, george made the films he wanted (flawed as they are), and there ain't a damn thing we can do about it. THAT'S REALITY, DEAL WITH IT.'
Because that would make an interesting debate... -
I'm confused I remember seeing pictures of him in costume and stuff and thought was going to have a cameo.. maybe I missed it cos I was too engrossed.. was he there?
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You said you "walked out of that turd after 45 minutes..."... I call shenanigans. No one who bothered to post on this forum would walk out of any Star Wars movie before the credits came on. You lie worse than Clinton.
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May 20, 2005 8:17:41 PM CDT
Arclight digital screenings all SOLD OUT through Monday!!
by hanfiredfirst
Good thing I can buy a DVD of the movie for five bucks downtown. ;)
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I have been a Star Wars fan since 1977! I really enjoyed Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. In my mind I really saw no way that I would be anything but thrilled with ROTS. I was stupefied! How could Lucas mess this up at the very end?!? Back in the mid-eighties while browsing at my local video store, I found a cool documentary. It
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You hit it right on the head on why this movie sucked.
It felt like Lucas expended all his creativity in the first 30 mins and then the rest was just going thru the motions and trying to cram as many worthless OT references in as possible.
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They must have cut the scene where where Sidious and Vader perform "Puttin on the Ritz"!
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Everyone on this talkback bitching, raving or defending Star Wars are pathetic pieces of shit.
That is all. -
May 20, 2005 9:00:57 PM CDT
ejcarter9- Believe it or not, I did walk out on this turd after
by mr. waturi
It was after Annikan lands the destroyed ship with Palpatine. Then that retarded line from Obi-Wan about not wanting to talk to the politicians, but encouraged Annikan. Then he reunites with Padme (who once again called him "annie") I left when they were on the balcony talking. I knew there was going to be action coming, I checked out some reviews. I obviously knows how it ends. But good lord, the writing was worse than the last two! And Grievous with the hacking cough. And the whole crash landing was so boring. Even the first battle, which looked amazing in terms of scale, just turned into this cartoonish dialogue with Annikan and Obi Wan. I know it's Star Wars, but the movie was a fucking cartoon. How can you become emotionally invested in wooden puppets? Granted, if I hadn't been so repulsed by the last two, I would have stayed until the end.
What these last three movies desperately missed were adult characters. Han Solo. Princess Leia. Lando! What we got were dorks in robes talking like retards. If you're going to use this "classical" language, you need to be able to sell it like LOTR. Fucking Samuel Jackson even looked goofy in these movies! I mean you guys have got to be fucking kidding me. I don't have the patience for bad movies anymore. I know I paid good money, but my time is worth more than that. That's why I walked out. -
Obi-Wan saying that was SUPPOSED to be unconsciously hypocritical. The Jedi Order dealt in dogmatic moral absolutes just as much as the Sith. Anakin brought balance to the force by destroying both the Jedi Order and all the dogma, rules, and codes with it, as well as the Sith (in ROTJ). When Anakin's like is finally over, all that is left is the one person who is truly BALANCED in the force: Luke. Luke has attachments, family, friends, and possessions (none of which the Jedi Order would allow), but he also has compassion, selflessness, and isn't power-mad. He is balanced in the way that Qui-Gon Jinn meant for Anakin to be. He is more attuned to the living force than the Jedi Order's monastic rules or the Sith's ruthless ambition. It's clear to me that 90% of the people watching these movies have missed the whole point: BALANCE requires the eradication of moral absolutes- The way the Jedi and Sith see things in black and white only- and the ability to FEEL the force, rather than simply manipulate it to further your political/personal/dogmatic agenda. Jedi Order and Sith were BOTH wrong about the way to deal with the force. They BOTH had to go for balance to be returned to the force. Anakin did that, and he bore the son that would be the human embodiment of balance.
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May 20, 2005 9:57:12 PM CDT
Perhaps those of us disappointed as hell are in the minority bec
by battery
...when isn't the majority a bunch of sheep, grazing on the shit plunked right in front of their faces and loving it.
Happens all the time. All apologists can go enjoy their rap-metal, bling, extreme sodas Independence Day, Jar Jar and "Friends." The rest of us have the OT, Raiders of the Lost Ark and Close Encounters. Good day to you. -
Was anyone at the 10:30 pm showing in Westwood, CA last night? It was a great time. I thought both the movie and the three hour wait in line were extremely entertaining. Some highlights:
The crazy guy in a cheap blue wrestler's mask who weilded two blue light sabers and called himself the "Blue Demon". He ran up and down the line telling everyone "Blue Demon hopes you enjoy the movie". Funny as hell.
The black bum who entertained and scared the people on line with his monologue about being in Cambodia. Then he growled like a tiger and pretended to shoot us with an uzi. The usher chased him away and called us all Vulcans.
The shemale that wasn't very feminine.
My consuming of three weed cookies.
My friend who deflated three beach balls in the theater when they came to him. He stood up, ripped one in half and waved on the audience to taunt them for more "Booos". Hysterical.
The movie.
I write of these highlights because I think some talkbackers are missing the point of this whole Star Wars opening weekend. It's not about how flawed the movie is or what could have been better. We will have years to analize the ROTS DVD to no end. This weekend it's about a completely unique movie going experience. When will we have another like it? -
Remember Yoda is hiding on Dagobah and isn't found because of the force cave- It's "Strong in the dark side of the force". The dark side energy is masking Yoda's presence. Now, on to Tatooine: Remember Anakin slaughtered an entire tribe of Tusken Raiders not far from the Lars home? DARK SIDE ENERGY. It masks the presence of force users somehow. Also, remember TPM, when they point out that The Hutts have control of that part of the galaxy, and that the Republic "doesn't exist out here"? Same with the Empire. Palpatine is content to leave these backwater planets to the Hutts, and never bothers with them. Why would he? Sand, Jawas, Sandpeople, and moisture farms? What the hell good is the place? He can't sense Luke there, he doesn't visit and doesn't send Vader to do anything on that backwater outer rim planet, and Vader wants NOTHING TO DO with his past. The dark side energy is masking both Obi-Wan and Luke. It's the perfect spot. As for Leia, I suspect there's something special about Alderaan, and her force abilities are next to ZERO in the movies (disregard the EU, please).
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..he could've killed a few padawans, cut off their ponytails - and that would explain why he has a bunch of ponytails attached to his shoulderplate. No matter though; i loved the movie. Oh, and Zerocorpse/llac5: so, are we in agreement that Luke is the chosen one? I feel that makes more sense. I saw ROTS at the marathon in London, and before it came on Lucas came in to introduce it. People stared chanting "we want nine" and he replied "It's the story of Darth Vader. It begins when he's nine, it ends when he dies". I kind of get the impression that Lucas intended Anakin to be the chosen one, but that just doesn't work for me....
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Is a cold-blooded mass murderer - murderer of innocents, women, children worthy of final redemption? Does the love of one's off-spring, and one final act of conscience enough to wipe out, erase all the years of brutality, slaughter and murder? "There is still good in him". So what? He's maimed and killed thousands.
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May 20, 2005 10:09:10 PM CDT
It's okay, sure the Jedi got slaughtered, mace flew out that win
by orionsangels
eventually Luke helps bring balance to the force...I just saw ROTS! WOW! Still taking it all in. I cried at the Jedi Purge. It was so dramatic, so final. All that the Jedi worked for, gone and William's amazing score, just made it impossible not to cry.
I didn't cry at the very end, but I started to when Padme started crying on Mustafar, ever since Leon. Whenever Natalie cries. I can't help it. It makes me cry. I just wanna embrace her and say it'll be alright.
This is just rambling, because it's just too much to take in the first. It's hard to judge this movie with other star wars movies. Because it doesn't feel like a SW movie.
When the movie starts it's business as usual for our two Jedi and the impact of seeing a new SW film has worn off. I didn't think the opening battle was that impressive. The intro of the movie was all happening too fast. What I did like was Obi-Wan & Anakin seemed more animated in their acting, especially Obi-Wan. He kept joking around. Grevious was ok, his magna droids were cooler, they looked so real, but not every special effect worked.
Some effects are just too ambitious for their own good. Like one shot of the helmet less clonetroopers around Obiwans ship. "Lets just do humans entirely in CGI, no one will notice." Well you do. Also the Boga, that was just too out there, although it was cool to watch and the sound the boga makes is interesting, some of you might have noticed it's the same sound Obi-Wan makes in ANH SE DVD edition. To scare the sand people away, was just too animated for my taste.
Other than that. The effects were amazing, although more subdued this time. The critics were right. It was more about the story and effects take a backseat. Where in TPM & AOTC. It was all about showcasing effects, like a 5 minute shot of a ship landing on a platform to oooh and wow us. This movie felt like it was saying to the audience, "you know we can do amazing effects and this movie isn't about. It's about Anakin becoming Darth Vader, the rest is just set dressing."
When Anakin first sees Padme when she has the buns. Already I felt like crying. They actually seem in love. I was amazed. It works. Natalie is so sweet in this movie, that all you can think of yelling at the screen when Anakin turns on her is, You blew it! I loved the slow parts in this movie, the talking. It was actually refreshing. Once Palpatine takes out Windu. The movie just kicks ass.
Anakin's turn happens a bit too quickly. I mean if you're gonna be a dad yourself, you don't think. Oh I'll go slaughter kids and then my wife and my kid can be happy and rule the galaxy, although he's a immature misguided whiny little brat that's easy to manipulate like a puppet. Palpatine knows this. It's almost like he puts Anakin under his spell. When Padme says, "I don't know you anymore Anakin." That's how the audience feels as well.
I wish the final duel had been longer, but when Obiwan leaves Anakin there. That was heartbreaking. Yoda was a sad character in this movie, like a father losing his kids. You feel for the little green.
That's all I can think to say for now. -
Remember when Lucas' boys mocked Godzilla 2000's poster of Size Matters with Plot Matters poster? Well, this is a great looking film, but it needs other writers. And people who don't just kiss Lucas' ass and say... that's great Mr L. R2-D2 flying and catching shit is just a joke. Someday, someone with a computer is going to make a great CGI prequel that will rock, until then. Keep watching the Laser Discs.
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I have to say, it's really good to see that the majrity of people enjoyed it, and I fully agree with you about the romance: IT FINALLY WORKS! Their dialogue is light years better than AOTC. And as for Anakin's turn - I really feel that he's been "turning" since episode 2 - we see a climax of a long turn, but most of the turn has already taken place, if you get my meaning. But either way - I agree, the film is fantastic. The moment when Anakin and Padme are staring across Coruscant at each other, and there is that haunting music - in my opinion some of the best SW music ever, and one of the best scenes in any of the SW movies.
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"Where in TPM & AOTC. It was all about showcasing effects, like a 5 minute shot of a ship landing on a platform to oooh and wow us. This movie felt like it was saying to the audience, "you know we can do amazing effects and this movie isn't about."
Did we watch totally different movies? There were unnecessary "showcase" shots about every 3 minutes. Like before every fricking new scene...it got really tiresome. How many time-wasting, gratuitous panoramic shots of Coruscant were there? How many boring pan-ins and zoom-ins of big buildings and mountains and caves did we have to endure? Too many.
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I admire you trying to plug up some of the plot holes, and agree with some of what you're saying, and don't with some of it as well. First - Yoda. Yes, he is hiding on Dagobah - perhaps it's because of the "Dark Side Cave" and perhaps it's because of the "massive life form readings" Luke Talks about. He goes to a jungle planet teaming with life, that "hides" him from the Emperor. Perhaps it's a combination of both. That point is one that can be left to conjecture, and should be so. I don't consider it a "plot hole". However, Luke on Tatooine should be explained to the audience in the film. Surely there are "reasons" we can all come up with, but the storyteller really NEEDS to address something like this in the films, and he doesn't - some things are best left ambiguous, but major plot elements such as "in all the places in the Galaxy to hide Luke why on earth keep his name "Skywalker" and hide him on the guy who is after him's Home Planet"? That's the kind of hole that is simply bad filmmaking not to address - you don't leave something like that up to the fans, unless you make a specific POINT in the film of doing that - make it mysterious. Lucas did not. He offered a half-hearted explanation that just didn't work - "take him to his family". Bleh. A simple "I'm never coming back to this planet again" from Anakin after what happened there would be enough, as then Obi Wan takes Luke to the one place where Luke would be safest from Vader. It would also echo Luke's same line from Episode IV, which would be nice. Your Dark Side thing is fine, too, though I'm sure there's lots of other "Dark Side" energy places in the Galaxy to hide the kid on that ISN'T Vader's Home Planet, and again, the storyteller has a responsibility to address something so obvioius to his audience. We shouldn't have to manufacture unsupported-by-the-films "reasons" to make the story "work". Dark Side masking? Tell us or indicate it to us. Vader wants "Nothing to do" with his past - indicate that to us somehow. Leia shows a fair amount of Force abilities - and there's no reason Luke's twin wouldn't have it any more or less than Luke, especially since Lucas introduced the horrible "midichlorian" idea. She hasn't been trained, so she doesn't show it much, but she definitely shows it. She "feels" the stirrings of humanity in Vader in Empire when he doesn't let Boba Fett kill Threepio and Chewie(very subtle), she "feels" it when Luke calls to her in the same film(overt), and Yoda outright says she is "another" Hope.(verbally overt). Come on, George - patch up that hole. You can't leave gaping things like that up to the fans to explain away. No good storyteller would do that unless the film was specifically about something like that kind of an "unknown". And what about Tarkin? Why didn't we see more of him? Vader is SUBORDINATE to him in A New Hope - surely that should've been adressed somehow. He takes orders from Tarkin and Leia even says "I should've expected you to be holding Vader's leash" - he's obviously Tarkin's henchman in the film - can you imagine Count Dooku being a "henchman" to anybody but the Emperor. Why is Tarkin over a Sith Lord? Come on, George, fill that hole. There are many more, though I still enjoyed this film. It's just not what it should have been. And if your interpretation of the "no moral absolutes" is correct, then it's still bad because such a theme is philosophically ridiculous on its face. There certainly ARE "moral absolutes". It is always wrong to kill innocent children as Anakin did, without a very good reason that would have to be incredibly extreme. His killing them on the flimsy word of the Emperor is ABSOLUTELY morally wrong. There are many other examples, but there are CLEAR moral absolutes, and Star Wars of all movie franchises with its "Evil" Emperor and "Empire" and "good rebellion" which is featuerd in that series should understand that.
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...Vader doesn't even know his kid(s) exist until some way into Episode 4. So he wouldn't be looking for them, and he's too busy throttling subordinates anyway. A soon as he DOES become aware of Luke, he obsessively pursues him, until the climax on Cloud City. Where is this plot hole of which you speak?
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Here I was thinking I was the only one. We're such pussies for this stuff.
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For me personally, I liked it in episode 4 how everyone was terrified of Darth Vader in the Imperial ranks except Tarkin, he just treated him like a nasty attack dog. When he's choking one guy, he just dismisses him with a wave and tells him to stop, he's not in the slightest bit impressed. I thought this made things much more interesting than everyone just being terrified of him. You could argue that Vader's the muscle but might not be so good at planning the tactical deployment of fleets of spaceships as say, the head of the fleet who Tarkin might have been, reporting to the Emperor. Vader might be doing all that black-ops type stuff, secret and smaller scale but no less important.
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So if that was the Falcon that I and several of you think we saw, would it have been Lando Calrissian's ship at that time?
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May 20, 2005 11:32:09 PM CDT
" "I don't know you anymore Anakin." THE CLASSIC line that chick
by krullboy
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Anakin should've put the Death Choke on her then and said "Maybe we should see other people!" I wish I could do that shit, if not just for that reason...
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May 20, 2005 11:38:45 PM CDT
Or Darthstallion, what if Padme would have said "I am really con
by krullboy
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May 20, 2005 11:41:43 PM CDT
Who gives a flying fuck if Lucas tweaked his original story from
by krullboy
I highly doubt that after the series premiere of "Friends", NBC writers sat around and said "Hey, I have a great idea to embarass Phoebe in Season !!!".
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"I love you, but I'm not in love with you..." Anakin does the Death Choke, and every guy in the theater cheers and walks out happy.
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An Overwhelming Experience.
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May 21, 2005 12:06:04 AM CDT
THE BIG FRICKIN' PLOT HOLE CREATED IN THE EMPIRE DVD: (Good God
by george newman
As a stand alone film, without the knowledge that Vader was Luke's father, one could infer that in the beginning of EMPIRE, Vader was 'relentlessly pursuing [luke] Skywalker' because: A) he was the kid that destroyed the Deathstar, or B) he sensed some sort of Force strength in him. At the end of the film, Vader's true motivation is revealed to be that Vader, knowing all along that Luke was his son, wanted to turn Luke... This is completely RUINED during the newly edited Vader and the Emperor exchange on the DVD, a change which was made for the prequels. ORIGINALLY, the dialogue went down like this: E-"We have a new enemy, Luke Skywalker, he must not be allowed to become a Jedi" V-"he could be turned"... This dialogue in no way suggests that Vader does not know that luke is his son. IN THE NEW conversation, it goes like this: E-"We have a new enemy, the boy who destroyed the deathstar, the son of anakin skywalker," V-"How can this be true?" E-"Search your feelings Darth, you know it to be true".."He could be turned".. Now this exchange makes sense in that in EpIII Anakin thinks his kid is dead. (His anguish is demonstrated by the terrific "NOOOOO!" he emotes.) However the connection is NULL AND VOID because of EMPIRE's Opening Freakin' Scrawl in which it says "Darth Vader is Relentlessly Pursuing SKYWALKER"!!!!!!!!!! VADER even says, right before the attack on Hoth, "The rebels are there, AND SKYWALKER IS WITH THEM." Now unless Skywalker is the Star Wars 'Smith' (which it is not; Lucas said that 'Antilles' was, heh!), DARTH VADER'S MOTIVATION IN THE FIRST 9/10s OF EMPIRE MAKES LESS THAN ZERO SENSE. Vader was not playing dumb to the emperor in the new version. Lucas changed it so that Vader GENUINELY does NOT know that Luke is his son when he goes to speak with the emperor via hologram. This makes it fit with the prequels(thinking his child is dead) BUT it is Completely discontinuitous with the actual film itself: the the opening scrawl and Vader's saying Luke name earlier. It is retarded, Retarded, politically incorrect RETARDED.
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ROTS wrapped things up really well for a casual Star Wars fan like myself. I say I'm a casual fan, although ESB was a defining moment in my life. To get Star Wars movies again was like candy to me. It may have had a sour aftertaste in the first two prequels, but it was still candy.
And really, isn't it all candy? People bitch about the dialogue and character development. This isn't Casa fucking blanca and was never meant to be. Watch the originals and tell me there's not cheesy dialogue in those.
This is sci-fi, and better yet, it's mythology. ROTS delivered exactly what I was looking for. I was very happy with it. I wasn't looking for another "Eternal Sunshine" or "Full Metal Jacket" or any other of the serious, adult films that meant something to me.
It's a paradox. All the films, orignal and prequel, are kids' films that deal with adult issues and have a good dose of mythology mixed in with the corny jokes. It is what it is, and for what it is, ROTS is a beautiful thing. It wraps things up quite nicely. Luke and Leia being born is a pretty powerful scene, especially against the backdrop of Annakin becoming, once and for all, Darth Vader. I know about a million people will disagree. But that's my take. -
he threw the emperor down a hole,brought balance to the force...doesnt that count?
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And after Anakin does the death choke, he tells PAdme that he is going to go SPITE FUCK all her handmaides, then go back to Naboo to "Force Fuck" Padme's sister with a gaffe stick. . .then, as he spunks in her face, tells her to "feel the Force around you". Vengeance. Or, you could do what I did and fuck my ex-girlfriends two best friends in her apartment!!! The power of the Dark Side indeed.
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All the greats have cheese...even "Full Metal Jacket"...the dialogue in the scene where Joker and Animal are standing toe to toe has some really lame dialogue.
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Episode 7,8, and 9 are defintely on the way now, and we just got hired as writers.
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May 21, 2005 12:48:16 AM CDT
ATTENTION: Moviemack has given us the ultimate proof that he is
by george newman
I WILL equate ignorance with having not viewed a Star Wars film. You are Starwars-ignorant. You are movieGeek-ignorant. The cinematic point of this film, and the other prequels, is to look at the parallels with the OT. In ROTJ Luke is faced with a major moral dilemna, yet he overcomes and chooses the Light. The ENTIRE REASON FOR THE PREQUELS is to see Anakin, faced the the same dilemna, fail and fall to the darkside. MOVIEMACK, you have a negligible understanding of Star Wars and by posting in the manner you did, you have invited deserved scorn and ridicule. Now don't perceive this 'Holier than thou' criticism as (This is however a 'holier than thou' position I am taking) something coming from some religious devotion the Star Wars. I do not own shelves of star wars collectibles and action figures, I have never purchased a SW book or comic, I don't even own a Star Wars t-shirt. This is about understanding and appreciating a fantasy narrative masterpiece. Not a Script masterpiece, or an acting masterpiece, just an incredible, involving story, that begs a complete and thorough viewing. ....Your Batman rants made me mad, but this is just inexcusable. You are unbelievable.
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May 21, 2005 12:57:57 AM CDT
Darthstallion, I agree. I can see it now; "Star Wars: Episode VI
by krullboy
In the opening crawl, rather than having "WAR" first, we will have something like "FIST" or "BITCH". Because Vader did screw Padme's sister, Luke and Leia have half-siblings they don't know about: Donny and Marie Osmond-Skywalker. The Osmonds kids become practitioners of the Sith Order, and Luke and Leia must take them out. Dorme will reveal herself as a "SITH WITCH", and Sola, Padme's sister, will start her own "anti-rebellion rebellion" to attempt to take down Luke and Leia, kind of like King Arthur's sister does to him. Just think of the love/incest triangles that those films could have. Dorme could have a "Leia, I AM YOUR MOTHER" scene, Luke could bang his half-sister and not know it, and Leia could do an intergalactic "gang bang for peace" that would unite the Skywalker and bastard Skywalker into Electra/Oedepedal bliss that Lucas always wanted but never dared write about.
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US$50 millions for ROTS in its first day, including US$16.5 millions in the midnight screenings. It has set three records so far: biggest midnight opening (surpassing LOTR: ROTK), biggest release day opening (surpassing Spiderman), and biggest single day earning (surpassing Shreck 2). From the looks if it, it seems that ROTS is set for a US$ 150-160 millions Thursday-Sunday BO. Let's see.
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May 21, 2005 1:17:46 AM CDT
That scene in FMJ pretty obviously went right over...
by pontsing barset
... your wildly over confident 20-something head DarthStallion. There's a big difference between intentionally stylized dialog and cheese. The first you find in Kubrick films, the second in Lucas films. You just haven't had time to figure out said big difference yet. But just you keep stroking, hear? And you'll get there eventually. Though in your case, a little extra KY jelly might be in order...
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Timeline and age were a big problem. I always felt The Clone Wars should have been like the galactic Vietnam. Lasting at least 10 years. And the Empire rising during this time. This way Anakin's crossover and seduction to the Dark Side would have matured better. Disillionment with the Council and such growing over time. Not just a back alley chat with Palpatine during "Caroucel." Also, this much time makes the age of characters appearing in Ep 4 seem believable. Owen and Beru just looked way to young when Luke was handed over, same with Obi-Wan. Only 20 years pass and these people look like there in there mid 60's. And what was up with the appearance of the Death Star. What did it sit with the moth ball fleet for 17yrs? It took less time for the second one to be built and operational. Just seemed another excuse to add a "nostalgic" link to the film. Same with the "off the top of my head" naming of the babies. I think it would have been much more dramatic had she not given them names.
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Was the best shot in the movie and it was only good because it reminded us of how good it once was.
Did anyone else note that spontaneous applause occurred upon the moment where we found ourselves on the SET of the ship (model) from ANH? People were ecstatic because they were seeing something REAL on screen. Something that looked cool, had a cool design. It wasn't complete CGI. People could take a breath and feel like they were in the original for a moment.
God what a tease. -
People do age a lot faster in the desert, due to the harsh climate, wind, heat, and exposure to the sun. Anybody that has lived in the US Southwest (as I have) can back me up on this one.
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I thought ROTS was outstanding, albeit not perfect. Anakins turn was too quick. The last 15 minutes have waay too much stuffed crammed in there in a hurry. And the "she's lost the will to live" line reminded me of that South park where cartman got his own amusement park. But the flick rocks, and you haters are trolls of the highest order. The battles are all great. The story is legitimately moving and tragic in spots. Fx are perfect. Ewan gives a great, great performance. Yoda rocks, and so does R2. What will the trolls do now with the prequels done?
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Casa-fucking-blanca. It just has to be an entertaining, involving, exciting, suspenseful popcorn film. And it wasn't. Of course the original trilogy was cheesy, but you felt like the heroes were real people not PLOT PUPPETS. And you liked them! Think of how sad it would have been at the end if you really liked Anakin. Did ANYONE like Anakin? I mean, other than the hottie with the buns on the side of her head.
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Sorry, couldn't resist.
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May 21, 2005 2:31:58 AM CDT
Moviemack, in 2 lines you summarized WHY Haters and OT Purist do
by krullboy
but as an adult you won't. Once you have popped your Star Wars virginity, it is gone. And George Lucas did not have to rape anyone for that to happend.
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I guess I was so blown away by the lightsaber duel and its aftermath/implications, that I wasn't paying attention to whether or not Obi-Wan picked up Anakin's lightsaber. (But Anakin DEFINITELY didn't tell Obi-Wan to "give it to his son when he's old enough.") I loved the fact the the Clone Troopers are the Emperor's "Trojan Horse". I mean, everyone knew they were the pre-cursors to stormtroopers, so it was obvious, to me at least, that there'd be some sort of "brainwashy" programming code to make them turn against the Jedi. (Order 66, indeed!) And I love that only Threepio gets his mind wiped at the end. (and Artoo laughs mockingly about it! Ha-Ha!) Of course you'd wipe the memory of the annoying chatterbox droid and leave the droid that nobody can understand, alone. And by the way, at the end of my midnight screening, everyone was thunderously applauding. And for the record, my rating of the "hexology" is as follows: TPM: 5, AOTC: 7, ROTS: 8.5, ANH: 9, ESB: 9.5, ROTJ: 8. (out of 10) So, yes, I liked Episode 3 better than Episode 6. (I HATE those goddamn Ewoks!) And let's face it, Episode 6 is such a re-tread of everything that went on before in the OT. (Attack on the Death Star, Luke and Darth have a lightsaber fight and one of them loses a hand, etc.) And yes, Episodes 7-9 with the original cast back in action would make a fucking mint! (And let's face it, it's not like they're busy doing anything else; even Indy's in a career slump right now) I would especially love to see Luke as a Jedi master training the next generation of Jedi, Leia as a bad-ass Jedi herself, and Han as a house-husband / intergalactic delivery boy...(I keed, I keed!)
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I did consider that and I'll give that to ya, but still don't buy it. Dagobah ain't the desert, Yoda's 800+ yrs old, 20yrs eailer he's hoppin around like he's 400. By ESB he's grunting and groaning like he hit 1000.
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May 21, 2005 3:04:17 AM CDT
If these talkbacks had existed back when Empire came out...
by cokemachineglow
They still would have been full of bitter people saying the exact same things...
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This may have been addressed before, but ROTS should have actually been episodes 2 & 3 (incorporating TPM and AOTC into one movie). Why do we get a 25 minute Pod Race scene, yet the massacre of the Jedis (which could be a movie by itself) is allowed only 5, done in montage? There were too many ideas truncated into ROTS, where TPM and AOTC contained so few. Where TPM and AOTC were both first acts and ROTS was acts two and three combined. With no room to breathe it comes off a one gigantic mess.
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Having the Senaters get togeather with Mon Mothma and Bai Ling and what not at the start of the movie would have made Padme look like something more than a stay at home wife.
The editing made some parts of the movie a little stilted.
Having people in outfits for some of the clones would have looked better.
I can live with that.
*shrug* -
I mean, that's it? That's what I get for keeping the faith? For believing that maybe George really did have some kind of master plan? I get backward Yoda, pointless Chewbacca, that ridiculous fat-head makeup on Palpatine, Windu out the window, and an "Opera" that looks just like the Wookiee Porn sequence from the SW Holiday Special? Folks, I'm done.
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May 21, 2005 4:00:42 AM CDT
Coulda been worse; he coulda hired Paul W.S. Anderson to direct.
by hanfiredfirst
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Shut the hell up, you're not being edgy or hip you're an embarassment.
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I am trying to figure out if I watched a different movie than everyone else. Why? There is all this praise going around about Revenge of the Sith and exclaiming that it is better than Return of the Jedi. How? The audience sat in stunned silence the whole movie tonight. Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones had some great build up scenes that made people go "ooooh yeaahhh!" (You know what they were: Maul vs Jedi in #1, and Yoda lighting up his saber in #2). And in this movie: stunned silence. *****************
I WILL ADMIT! The acting was better. I even enjoyed Hayden's performance and thought he did a great job (except for that awful "Nooooo" scene that had us all cringe). **************
Some Critiques: C3PO served no purpose in this film... and in his "moment to shine" seemed to be painted BLACK! The rotoscope artists blacked in everything so there was barely any reflections. ****************
Menacing droids that sounded like chipmunks. Better than the "roger roger" but I found myself rolling my eyes. Those bigger superdroids sounded rediculous. *********************
R2-D2's praised antics came across more as a fan film. Sadly so did the wookies. Sigh. (Though I loved the scene where the wookies plant a bomb on an enemy craft). ******************
Palpatine was great. He started sounding really weird after his transformation... almost more like a demon (lay off the voice effects, guys!). **************
I dunno... this movie felt badly edited. Scenes would almost work and get cut short... and the "epic battle scene" at the beginning was cut short... I dunno, I felt thrown around on an almost fun ride. YOu can complain that I am "not a fan" if you want but I'll be honest: this is not a good movie. Or at least not by Star Wars standards. It looked like a glorified fan film.
I watched Phantom Menace 7 times in the theater, Attack of the Clones 4 times, and this won't get a second viewing. ************ Visually, there's some great stuff... but it's overwhelmed with things moving everywhere. And in the end, we just sat there silent and almost yelled at the three people in the sold out crowd that applauded. It was nice to see some stuff tied together with the original series, but wow, this closes a prequel series of digital paint experimental films. I much prefered seeing Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy last night.
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You know... people that think that this was better than Return of the Jedi should have their memories erased. ***************
I look forward to seeing what George does next. I like his desire to go back into his THX-1138 roots, but these three prequels... seemed like he started with good ideas and then somewhere got himself overwhelmed and lost in the project. At the end exclaiming "this is perfect" but I dunno... MAYBE he should have rewatched his original trilogy for what it was rather than a work in progress. He missed so much magic that was in there. The technology is here now to realize his dream, but I hope he doesn't let the technology overwhelm it and choke it to death. "So Long and Thanks for all the fish." -
Wow. "immature crybaby fucking brainless..." etc? Don't you detect any irony in your extreme hatred for 'haters'? George must be so pleased to see how well you learned the lesson he was trying to impart with his films. Y'know, like not giving into, um, HATE...
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Out of all the 2 hours, I think the film had very minor "shit!" moments. The Vader "Noooooo!!" wasn't THAT BAD. I didn't see too much of a problem with it and the acting was mostly excellent in places. Great film.
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1. Before I touch on that... Greivous needed a cough drop. Badly! But I liked his saber trick (that was pretty cool, was surprised that Obi-Wan survived).***************** 2. "maybe we misinterpretted the prophecy" yup, you did! I liked that scene of pondering. **************** 3. "you're breaking my heart!" sounded awful in the trailer but worked in the movie. ***************** 4. Again, wookies swing in, plant bomb, jump. Very nice. though seeing them all getting enslaved at the end would have been nice too. **************** 5. Emperor and declaring an Empire. Very nice! **************** 6. Jedi slaughter on the planets was mostly well done... but needed more buildup or more of a tragic intensity. I didn't want to feel like "yay, the jedi are dying now." In Clone Wars, we loved that one girl with the red tentacles and her two friends so much we were hoping they would survive Grievous. That's the kind of feeling I wanted to have in this movie. Oh well. ****************** Anakin, I really enjoyed his character this time and didn't mind the love story with Padme this round... I mean, it was still weak but I enjoyed it. (the choking thing seemed pathetic... he could have thrown her afterwards or something to give more an impression that she was hurt). ****************** Saber fights weren't bad and there were some good moments of intensity but I prefer the noble "knight" style of the original trilogy in some ways. This "martial arts" style started feeling a little... overboard and recycled after a while. ************** I loved how Obi-Wan's R4 unit got his head yanked off. GREAT! Was his replacement droid later on the same droid with a now orange colored head? The orange copper head looked slapped together on the close up. I chuckled. ***************** AND Anakin slicing up the Trade Federation baddies was nice to see... but could have been more... like... grander... more vengeful... something. ******************* Lastly, the endings seemed weak. The end credits surprised me, I felt there should have been maybe one more scene or something to lead us into the end score... but it kind of jumped on me and felt a little off. Oh well... it's done, it's over, I move on....
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I think ROTS would have benefitted without Grevious to be honest, he was a poorly constructed character and he wasn't THAT impressive visually either. I mean, he has 4 lightsabres spinning like a fucking hurricane at Obi-Wan and he still gets taken out.
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I disliked the noises that that giant gekko-thing Obi-Wan was riding made. And I disliked the dream images - I don't really feel as thgouh they "fit" in the Star Wars-style, they should have done it just like in AOTC. And at times, it feels as though there's too much on the digital cutting room floor. But that's about it - I loved everything else. _______ It's been a while since I have seen a movie on the big screen. Thought I'd make an exception for Star Wars.... And this was absolutely the LAST TIME I will see a movie like this. I don't know why movie theaters don't do more to keep people from being obnoxious. I paid to see this movie, not to listen to other people complain about it and yell stuff they think is "funny". I don't know why certain inferior neanderthals don't have the decency to keep their obnoxious holes closed when people are tryin to watch a movie, and I don't care why. I feel subhuman creatures like that should be put against the wall and put down with a neck shot. I don't want to feel that way about people, so I won't put myself through that any more - not until movie theaters find a way to keep these lower life forms QUIET. Place guards or something, who remove noisemakers, something like that, I don't know.
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I've laughed out loud reading these hate filled posts. Either aimed at talkbackers or the film. Being a hater is stupid, but does that make a hater of haters even more stupid?
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PLEASE get your facts straight - int the original version of Empire, the emperor ALWAYS said "the son of Skywalker" must not become a Jedi. It emphasises the oft-repeated point in SW that Vader and Anakin should be thought of as different people. The funny thing is -all those implications about Vader preparing to overthrow the Emperor ARE STILL THERE IN THE DVD. The change of dialogue hasn't changed the meaningt at all, and like I say: HE ALWAYS SAID "THE SON OF SKYWALKER MUST NOT BECOME A JEDI" - HE JUST DIDN'T USE THE NAME ANAKIN -PLEASE GET YOUR FUCKING FACTS RIGHT BEFORE TRYING TO APPEAR LIKE AN AUTHORITY ON STAR WARS - people like you give AICNers a bad name.
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May 21, 2005 6:53:29 AM CDT
I've noticed a common trait amongst many of the hateful posts
by inbloom
Anybody else notice how a lot of the negative posts on this talkback are from "new" users? Let's consider the posssible implications of this: either these are people who hated this film even more than they hated TPM and AOTC, so much so that they were moved to finally register on AICN after all these years, just to register their utter hatred of AICN - my point is, if these people hated ROTS then I think it's a fair bet that they hated the other two. Yet obviously they didn't hate them quite as much - or else why didn't they register to spout vitriol back in 1999? OR, possibly a lot of these new users are in fact old users, who have realised that clearly the reaction to Ep 3 has been very different to the reactions to Eps 1 & 2, and that the negative posse are now very much in a minority. So a high proportion of these new users are just existing AICNers, setting up new accounts, or changing their usernames to put up posts which back up posts that they themselves have already written under different usernames. Perhaps this gives them the illusion that there are actually a lot of people out there like them, who really hated the movie. Sorry guys, but there really aren't. You are in a tiny minority. I feel sorry for you, because you've missed out on a great experience - ironically enough, you have chosen Anakin's Ep 3 path, whereas most of us have been converted at the last minute, a la Ep 6. One thing I should make you all aware of though, is that, even though you may think you're incredibly cunning by getting a new username/changing your old one - please realise that the mods at AICN know exactly who you are - they can see your IP address, so even if you fool some people, the mods are secretly laughing at your pathetic need for "the higher ground". Nnnnoooo! - you are certainly one of the people I am talking about.
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Lucas has done it again--NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
After seeing ROTS twice I'm still tooo overwhelmed to properly digest it....the tragedy of Anakin's turn, fallout with Padme and final immolation was possibly the most emotionally impacting sequence I've ever seen on film...I'm depressed and nothing in ROTJ not even Anakin's redemption can erase the fact that Padme died, not only did he not save her but he himself practically died..HOW CAN HE GO ON with his beloved wife dead?? I don't understand how Vader could go on...she was his whole life, and he was dying every moment she came into his life. I expected to see him at least go haywire and kill a bunch of people like he did in AOTC when his mom died, if that was anything to go by. I just wanted to see Anakin force push Obi-Wan, and grab Padme and run away with her...couldn't he just come back with a big starfleet and take care of ObiWan later...
I'm pissed at Padme, why'd she have to be such a righteous bitch her husband was the #2 most powerful man in the universe and could have been #1 and wanted her to rule with him and give her everything and protect her....and she reacts "I don't know you??" WTF! She can handle him killing a whole tusken camp, a whole jedi temple, but she draws the line at overthrowing the emperor and ruling the galaxY? which is the lesser evil? Anyway enough griping, please share your thoughts on this my fellow fanboys...
Despite Lucas' terible romance dialogue that had my screening rolling in laughter, this romance is perhaps the most enthralling tragic romance due to its apocalyptic galactic scale and tragegy. A magnum Opus, NECKFAT REDEEMED!!!! REDEEEMED!
The much vaunted across coruscant visual shot of Anakin and Padme with that utterly haunting brilliant Williams music (Padme's Ruminations on the soundtrack cd) is possibly the most enthralling sequence in any movie of all time. WOW. WOW! Prequel haters be damned, despite the atrocious dialogue and laughable scenes that were supposed to be serious, ROTS delivers and redeems the fallen prequels. ROTS IS THE CHOSEN ONE, to bring balance to the SW Trilogy....
ROTS haters are like Mace and Yoda who think they misread the prophecy, when in fact they just failed to take the time to appreciate ROTS's flawed intricate brillaince (and by extension, Anakin).
Anyway I'm too exhausted to continue, I'm going to see it again tomorrow.
Oh yeah btw I'm a "new user", I've been lurking on here since 1998 and reading every major talkback since then, but the pure hilarity on this ROTS talkback inspired me to finally register. Thank you, my fanboy brothers...may the force be with you, always. -
...although it would be more correct to call him Anakin's "creator". People have suspectd this since before TPM came out - it's nice to have it finally confirmed.
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ESB, ANH, ROTS
Saw it last night and woke up assaulted by images from it. It's a very disturbing movie. To see a hero, or anti-hero, have his legs and arm sliced off by his best friend-- then have his mutilated but still living trunk catch fire while said best friend stands by and watches-- is extremely disturbing (don't take the kids). If the haters don't think so, they're incapable of feeling anything. Or they're so desensitized they barely qualify as human and we're all further down the dark path than anybody realized.
Is it good or bad that it's so disturbing? Good, I think. Heck, Americans and Iraqis are getting their limbs blown off everyday, but we don't get to see that. Some frank and disturbing depictions of dismemberment in a blockbuster might be just what we need right now. -
THIS WHOLE COMMENT IS A SPOILER - YOU ARE WARNED
I've seen it twice now, loved the opening and some other scenes but overall it "broke my heart". I am going to dissect this movie scene by scene for my sake and yours. I'm curious who shares the same reactions who can answer some questions.
Scene 1 - The Space Battle and approaching Grievous' ship - Brilliant, the rest of the movie never approaches the level of the opening.
Scene 2 - R2D2 action. Loved it, finally seeing R2D2 at it's most capable. Really fun and well done.
Scene 3 - Dooku battle - The first letdown. So Obi-Wan is the match of Anakin but Obi-Wan AND Anakin are not the match of Dooku but Dooku can't beat Anakin alone, my head hurts. Anakin kills Dooku and betrays the Jedi Code because of a suggestion from a non-Jedi politician. Why?
Scene 4 - Grievous introduced, fights, escapes - The fact that Palpatine does not wish to help Obi-Wan does not disturb Anakin in the least? Is Grievous hacking because of what Mace Windu did to him in the cartoon? Thanks for throwing us a bone for watching but I'd rather have seen the Terminator Bad-Ass Grievous from Clone Wars. And why does he have to talk like Triumph the Insult Dog!? Enough with the lame voices George.
Scene 5 - Anakin sees Padme - so she's days from delivering twins and Anakin has no idea even though he saw her during the Clone Wars?
Then this...
ANAKIN: You are so beautiful!
PADME: It's only because I'm so in love . . .
ANAKIN: No, it's because I'm so in love with you.
PADME: So love has blinded you?
ANAKIN: Well, that's not exactly what I meant . . .
PADME: But it's probably true!
They laugh.
ANAKIN: I haven't laughed in so long . . .
PADME: Neither have I.
I however am laughing and beating my head on the seat in front of me...
Scene 6 - The Jedi distrust Palpatine - although NONE of them not even Yoda even begin to suspect he is a FU$*ING SITH LORD!? COME ON!!? Why, I could even buy his masterful ability to cloak himself if an explanation was given, it never is.
Scene 7 - Anakin's nightmare about Padme dying- Cheesy nightmare, Yoda brushes him off saying don't sweat it. Thanks Yoda. No Jedi really senses the trouble this kid is having?
Scene 8 - Yoda goes to Kashyyyk for some reason - It could have been very cool if Chewbacca was introduced to us in some way as a wookie diplomat or done anything even remotely interesting, funny or even got off a good roar. None of it happens. Just a lame cookie thrown out to the fanboys to gobble up.
Scene 9 - The Ballet - Pretty good scene if you buy that cultural entertainment in the SW galaxy is hearing Philip Glass music while "energy balls" float in the air. The story of the Sith is well told and we begin to understand their motivations. Nicely done.
Scene 10 - Anakin tells the Council where Grievous is - Why let Obi-Wan go alone to defeat the killer of many Jedi and not with Dooku's killer. This would also seperate him from Palpatine. Makes no sense.
Scene 11 - Oh Boy, Palpatine reveals himself as a Sith Lord - Yeah just like that, no pomp and circumstance. Anakin finds this out draws his saber and buys a story from Palpatine (who has been deceiving everyone...somehow) that only he can save Padme. WHY BELIEVE HIM, WHY NOT TAKE HIM INTO CUSTODY NOW, HE'S A SITH LORD HELLOOOOOO! "I'm going to tell the council", whatever...
Scene 12 - Obi Wan fights Grievous - Palpatine, not too worried about his impending trouble with the Jedi does more scheming. Obi-Wan meets Grievous in battle who even though has beaten like 6 Jedi's at once (Clone Wars) loses 2 arms in like a minute. Obi-Wan rides a weird annoying lizard-pony away so we can see more money being spent. Obi-Wan then kills Greivous with a blaster...yeah a blaster. Let's move on...
Scene 13 - Anakin tells the Jedi about Palpatine - Mace Windu is SHOCKED - I can't stress this enough, the Jedi can sense the force miles away but had not even an inkling this guy was a SITH LORD!!! Anyhoo, Mace goes to get him with three other Jedi including noted badass Kit Fisto and Palpatine kills all three of them in seconds somehow fighting around Mace Windu, remarkable. Mace proceeds to get Palpy near death by deflecting his own force lightning which he can't seem to turn off and it disfigures him even though it's never disfigured anyone else ever. Anakin shows up and is convinced by a dying Sith Lord (evil remember? He wouldn't lie would he?) that only he can save Padme so he cuts off Mace's arm and lets him die.
Then it comes...
so you just killed a Jedi Master and now I have every reason to believe anything you say.
Good, your name is Darth...er Vader, yeah that's it.
"Thank you, master, you look stupid now" Now I'll go kill all the Jedi to save Padme maybe. Makes perfect sense.
Scene 14 - Order 66 - Palapatine now tells all the clone troops to turn and kill all the Jedi. These are clones not robots right? They don't have a choice? Guess not, OK. Jedi's all die lame deaths, super hot blue Jedi chick is shot in the back, sigh...
Scen 15 - Yoda, with the wookies is the only Jedi who senses the clones turned bad and saves himself. So Chewbacca had no clue the clones turned bad but sees Yoda behead two soldiers who a second ago were the good guys and thinks nothing of it. Then Yoda jumps on Chewbacca's back (awwwww, eat your cookie fanboy...good)
Scene 16 - Anakin kills kids - This pisses me off. So I want to save my kids but I will gladly kill the Younglings who aren't even Jedis without a thought because I guess I'm evil now. I must be! My name is Darth Vader! Jimmy Smits escapes after another little kid is killed, nice George.
Scene 17 - Palpatine becomes emperor - So the Senate believes him on his word that the Jedi are all bad now and that you are all worthless now because I'm the emperor now. They cheer at this...cheer. I appreciate the liberal sentiment George but it's layed on a bit thick. Padme finally is getting a clue, they really dumbed her down in this one. All Padme gets to do is be sad, stupid, wishy washy, pregnant, stupid and die. Natalie Portman is happier than anyone this is all over.
Scene 18 - Palpatine tells Vader stuff - So he's Darth Vader now? Couldn't wait until he's in the suit, it just feels weirdly unsatisfying. Go kill more people for some reason!
Scene 19 - Yoda and Obi-Wan watch surveillance tape of Anakin to see him killing the Younglings and being made a Sith. OK, so...as much as they suspected Palpatine of something (not being a Sith Lord of course) they never watched any surveillance of him apparently.
Scene 20 - Obi Wan tells Padme about Anakin - Very good scene, both actors must haved loved actually getting to ACT in a scene. Ewan kicks butt the whole movie BTW.
Scene 22 - Vader goes and kills the annoying trade guys from the Phantom Menace. He then cries for some reason (for the second time)
Scene 21 - Padme goes to see Anakin - "I'm a day away from delivering kids but I'll fly to the fire planet to confront my possibly insane husband, what could go wrong?" Obi-Wan hijacks. Padme confronts Anakin with what she heard and he lies by accusing Obi-Wan of lying (why lie, don't you feel you are doing the right thing, just CONVINCE her) Then he gets pissed off and force chokes her thereby negating any reason for doing any of his reasoning for becoming a Sith.
Scene 22 - The obligatory cutting between end battles (only 2 this time!)
Yoda vs. Palpy and Vader vs. Obi-Wan. Both fights are pretty well done but Yoda who can lift 100 ton ships, somehow cannot use the force to keep himself from falling 50ft off a ledge and somehow that means he lost the fight. Obi-Wan stays even with Vader until he gets the "high ground" and has no choice but to sever both Vader's legs (and other arm) thereby giving you your explanation why Vader is so much taller in the suit (It's the LEGS Mars!) Obi-Wan neither helps him after he bursts into flames nor gives him any mercy and makes sure he actually dies, subjecting the Galaxy to 20 odd years of Tyranny and Genocide under a pissed off Vader.
Scene 23 - Yoda, embarrassed, into exile he must go.
Scene 24 - Anakin gets the suit (Do they have these suits just lying around?) It is VERY cool when the mask goes on, Padme has the kids, conveniently has the names Luke and Leia picked out right before kicks the bucket - Padme does not die because she was forced choked which would have been tragic irony with Anakin fulfilling his own Prophecy. She dies because she does not have the will to live, apparently raising children is not enough of a reason.
Scene 25 - Vader takes his first steps - Vader...emotes NOOOOOOOOOOOOO (I said it with him) Cool that he destroys everything around though. Now shouldn't he be pretty pissed at Palpatine for NOT being able to save Padme's life? Just asking.
Scene 26 - Wrapping things up - These scenes are nicley done, the goodbyes, the seperating of the children, Vader with young Tarkin, The robots on the familiar looking corellian ship, very nice. I get to leave with a good final taste in my mouth. Thanks George, you almost pulled it off, I appreciate the effort but it could have been so much more. -
They nearly all insist on talking about the reaction of the audience they were with as much as the film itself. i.e. "my audience was bored, nobody clapped, people laughed in the wrong places, therefore the film sucked" Who gives a fuck about the audience reaction? Judge the film for yourself. Whenever I've first watched all the prequels, the audience has applauded nearly all the way through, but I don't try and claim that proves they're good movies. I'd enjoy them just as much if the audience was deadly silent throughout the whole film. And besides, ROTS is not a film to cheer at the end of. It's a fucking tragedy! It's pathetic that so many are so insecure in their hatred of these films they have to try and make out everyone else in the world agrees with them.
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There are a loooot of posts here.
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May 21, 2005 11:44:48 AM CDT
Evergreen, you really need to pop in the vhs and dvd and watch t
by george newman
Darth Vader: "How can this be true?" "How can this be true?" "How can this be true?"
Evergreen, i'm calling foul on the fact that in the DVD Dialogue, Anakin genuinely doesn't know he has a son. The emperor has to tell him. He is not playing dumb to the emperor at that moment, he really is surprised to hear this. He still suggests in both versions 'he would make a powerful ally, if he could be turned,' so i don't see how much in this dialogue Vader was plotting behind the emperor's back when he directly tells Palp that they could make a new apprentice. . . . . The problem with Vader not knowing of his son is that it contradicts the opening scrawl and also another moment when Vader does in fact say that he is looking for Skywalker. How could he be looking for Skywalker in the beginning if in the DVD version he doesn't know anakin has a son, as the Dialogue tells. The change was made to help EpV correlate with EpIII--he thinks the baby(s) is dead. However, this correlation creates a contradiction within the film itself. In the new version VADER DID NOT KNOW HE HAD A SON, prior to the conversation. He was not playing dumb. -
May 21, 2005 11:54:11 AM CDT
To everyone else, you kicked me in the nuts, and i suppose i was
by george newman
But moviemack, you really should see ROTJ. You get to see Luke at his most righteous and hammy. It has the best space battles of all the films. The emperor is one of the best parts of this film too. Luke's faith in the good of Vader shows where Yoda and Obi Wan failed in EpIII. Luke was more compassionate than either of them. But see it, man. Find it for free somewhere. Shirley* a friend of yours owns a copy.
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May 21, 2005 12:06:48 PM CDT
http://www.leiasmetalbikini.com/members/whatsnew.html
by trevor goodchild
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http://wizbangblog.com/images/2005/darth_leia_coloring_book.php
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Am I right in thinking that Lucas never uses Slow Motion or Flashback sequences in his Star Wars films? His direction is very conservative and straight.
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May 21, 2005 1:40:26 PM CDT
I don't think anyone has a problem with the "nooooo" line itself
by warcraft
...it's delivery, and the way the camera pans out. Just looks and sounds cheesy. A raging scream followed by showing more of the room and droids being destroyed, along with Palpatine silently watching, would have been better.
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seriously, I really didn't bother to check the DVD against the video. What have you been smoking dude? Your entire hypothesis rests on the fact that you do not think that vader is playing dumb in the new version, even though the scene ends with the exact same line id always did: "he will join us or die" - then as soon as Vader gets Luke alone and vulnerable - he's telling him about how they can rule the galaxy as father and son - yet for some reason, you don't think Vader was playing dumb. Why was that again? Because he now says "how can that be possible?" - well, I guess that IS conclusive proof that Vader isn't playing dumb - except, it isn't is it? It's a fleshing out of the concept, not a weakening of it.
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There were a couple of really great moments, but this movie was pretty awful/mediocre overall. I would agree with some of the above comments that seeing the initial rescue scene and then cutting to the last 40 minutes--you'd think this movie was pretty good.
I know these films mean a lot to people regardless of the quality--which is why seeing them realized is satisfying enough for a whole lot of people.
But I'm still surprised, after so many people/critics/fans calling Lucas out on his inability to write great dialogue in the first two films, that he didn't hire a really great script doctor for this final installment.
-----Some of the best scenes were the ones (esp. towards the end) with no dialogue--only action.
What's also notable is how great most of the actors are, just not in these films. Hayden has proved himself in several other films, and Ewan is obviously great, Portman is pretty good....yet all three look embarrassed the way they are directed to speak their dialogue. The only one who was able to deliver their hammed-up lines with some real connection was Emp. Palpatine.
---- Someone above mentioned the OT had some pretty cheesy dialogue--and I agree, albeit a lot less cheesy than the PT, but the direction/editing/pacing/acting really made us care about the characters anyway.
I think the PT had so much potential, and I wish Lucas had the "inner Jedi balance" to give up his pride and delegate some writing/editing/direction over to someone else.
Regardless, I will always love A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back.
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i thought that it was a little draggy, but it was all worth it for that fight between Obi-Wan and Anikin. The only major complaint i got was a few shots wherethe CGI double for Palpatine looked fake. Other than that it was pretty good.
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I am off to see it for the 3rd time. I loved it!
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1. Original version - Vader is obsessed with finding his son, his humanity has been touched. He manipulates the Emperor into trying to catch an turn him rather than kill him, and tries to tempt Luke by showing him plans to overthrow the Emperor if he'll turn......................................................................................................2. The New version - the new scene replaces the great original scene with a cheesy, out of place corny dialogue exchange. Whether you like the new plotting here or not, the scene on its own simply sucks, and sticks out like a sore thumb in Empire. It changes the plotting, too - Now there are two possibilities, both weaken the overall story: -----------------------------------------A. Vader does not actually know Luke is his son untilt he Emperor tells him. This is what most audience members will take away from this exchange, as otherwise the storyteller is forcing them to read into it that Vader is "fooling" the Emperor. Fine for fans who read all sorts of stuff into it, but it stinks for the casual viewer who thinks Vader is just an idiot for not realizing that this "Skywalker" who has the Force(he knows, he said it himself in the last film) and is about "the right age" is his son. This version, which most will take away from it, not only makes Vader seem like an idiot, but it rips apart the character arc that was subtly in the original - his humanity was starting to be touched by the son that he didn't know he had, and was "obsessed" with finding him. It says so in the opening crawl, and his actions also show us he really, REALLY wants to find Luke. In this new version it seems that he wasn't a touched father searching for his son at all, but he was merely a henchman attack dog trying to find the guy who blew up the Death Star. When he finds out it's his son, he then hatches a scheme to turn him and overthrow the Emperor, or he is just saying that to Luke to try and get him to turn to the Dark Side. This version seems like the one Lucas is favoring and trying to get across to the audience, because it "fits" with Vader not knowing that Luke and Leia were ever born from Episode III - you can read into it all you want, but all indications show that Lucas is just being clumsy here and not really thinking things through in his cheesy attempt to "connect" the two trilogies. He does the same kind of cheesy, not thought through thing by replacing old Anakin with Hayden Christiensen in the new version of Return of the Jedi - a TERRIBLE decision. And completely unnecessary, the original could have stood as it was WITHOUT needing the new dialogue and still made perfect sense, AS WELL AS keeping Vader's character intact. So why the change? Obviously, Lucas didn't trust his audience enough to realize that Vader figured out who Luke was between A New Hope and Empire. He felt we as an audience needed to SEE him figure it out in the course of the films, because it's a piece of plot information he didn't know on film in Episode III. --------------------------------------------------B. In this option, you are correct, and Lucas is meaning to imply that Vader does certainly know who Luke is and is just lying to the Emperor. This still sucks. One, the scene itself still sucks either way. Secondly, this doens't make any sense, either, because in this version the EMPEROR seems like the stupid dolt. Does the Emperor honestly think that Vader hasn't made this connection yet? That this Skywalker who is the right age and has the Force is actually his son? He feels he needs to tell him? That's just ridiculous on its face. It makes absolutely no sense for the Emperor to feel like he has to tell Anakin "the truth". They should both damn well realize by now that the cat's out of the bag, and "somehow the kid(s) survived. This version, which is your version, simply makes no sense at all. The Emperor would obviously realize far before this that Vader knew about Luke and had realized who he was. It's just ridiculous to think otherwise, and insulting to have him actually feel like he has to tell Vader in this scene. It screams that it's just a scene "for the audience only" - the result is it makes the Emperor seem stupid and makes no sense for the scene to play out this way................................................................................................... So basically, the scene itself hurts the film because it's corny and has terrible dialogue that seems like an out of place addition to the film, no matter what you think of it's plotting. And no mater what way you look at it, it either tears down Vader's character(if you take the scene the way most poeple will), or makes the Emperor look like an absolute idiot and makes no sense at all if you look at it the way you want to. Either way, the scene really, REALLY hurts The Empire Strikes Back, and shows that Lucas has little concept of STORY anymore.
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May 21, 2005 5:04:54 PM CDT
Not to mention that the new Empire scene is completly unnecessar
by dagan
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when Luke enters the tree on Dagobah for his vision quest confrontation with Vader, where he cuts off Vader's head to reveal his own face behind Vader's mask.
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It seems that for some people here any criticism of ROTS or any of the other prequel films makes you a 'hater'. Or just because I don't post on the Talkbacks on a regular basis I'm just some eeevil outsider who signed up just so I can rain my hate down on everyone. No, that's not the case. Far from being a hater I've defended the first two prequels to my friends, also die hard Star Wars fanatics. I've argued that in spite of the flaws they were still decent stories and that they were all building up to Reveng of the Sith....that everything would be wrapped up and it would all make sense. Having read the novellization and seen what the story could have been, it seemed that nothing could have gone wrong...that there's no way Lucas could have screwed it up. I really wanted it to work and I got my hopes up. But in the end, Lucas did find a way to screw it all to hell by cutting out nearly everything that worked in the screenplay and focus instead on filling the screen with as many tacky CGI gimmicks as he could. Yeah, there are wookies and cool space battles and lightsaber battles and many many things that go *boom*, but the actors got the short end of the stick, in the one film where a dramatic performance was more important than all the others. Maybe if the whole cast was CGI or muppets or midgets, Lucas might have spent some time on trying to wring a convincing performance out of them. In the end the best thing Lucas could do is throw in nostalgic reminders of the original trilogy and distract the viewers with memories of how good those films were, so maybe they'd ignore the trainwreck that ROTS turned out to be. And apparently the tactic worked. No, I'm not a hater...I really wanted this movie to work but the fact of the matter is we got sold a pile of crap...all the potential that was in the previous two prequels has been squandered and now is lost...a wasted effort. And some people so want to believe that this pile of crap is good, that it wasn't a waste of time, they'll blindly defend it and attack anyone who criticizes it. But I'm sorry to break it to you...this film was a waste of time.
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...do exist. Saw one last night that my friend in Austin showed me. And what do you know, they were really quite good. The total running time for both movies is just 3 hours, so the editor(s) obviously cut out a lot. I noticed that most of the crap was gone, like 90% of Jar Jar, the boring political talk, dorky young Boba, head-swapping C-3PO, etc. Actually re-invigorated us for ROTS, which we watched this morning. Worth searching for. Oh, and Sith is better than ROTJ, if for no other reason than the ewoks blow big bloody chunks.
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Apart from everything else disappointing about the last chapter. There really weren't any standout moments. It was all pretty much lackluster, been there, seen that. Even Ep 1 and 2 had WOW moments. The pod race, the Maul fight, the Obi-Wan/Jango fight and asteroid chase and battle during the Clone Wars. The opening sequence here initally starts ok, then had me shaking my head during the wacky elevator moment and the "keystone droids" bit. From the trailer the confrontation with the Jedi and Palatine looked to be killer. It turned into a poorly staged scene were it seemed the actors might bump into each other. The three Jedi in the back basicly throw their arms in the air and scream. And Grevious, what a joke compared to the animated series. Talking about the flim after it had ended my friends and I had completely forgotten about Grevious even being in it. But the scene that everyone has been waiting for, for 30yrs. The Anakin/Obi-Wan battle, boy how underwhelming was that. Not to mention the, slapping together of Vader. What a let down. I never thought the day would come where I actually liked RoTJ better than any of the PT flicks. Even with the lameness of RoTJ you still have an awesome opening, the skiff fight, the speeder bike chase, the Vader/Luke fight and the best space battle in the entire series. But more importantly, characters you liked, even with lousey dialog. Apart from Obi Wan, the PT really has no character I even cared about. We all love Obi Wan, Yoda, Vader and Palpatine because we know them from the OT. Padme, who cares, Anakin, who cares, Mace Windu, big deal. The entire PT was a huge disappointment overall. Call me a hater if you want, but I love SW. I'll always have the OT and that's the thing that hooked me in the first place, because there was nothing like it before. The PT didn't do anything new and didn't have the WOW factor that the OT did.
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As people have said earlier, all that needed to be done to strengthen ROTS along with the AOTC/TPM was to spread the events of ROTS into AOTC.... When I read the ROTS novel, so much more was explained and the pacing was soooo much better. That is the main fault of ROTS. Points 'a' 'b' 'c' 'd' were all great, but the journey/pacing between was rushed and not fleshed out enough because too much was left to be crammed into ROTS. ***** NOVEL: pages 76-77, 84-85 (1) ***** In the lightsaber duel between Anakin and Dooku, Sidious and Anakin have a post martem talk on right/wrong. Sidious, "Have you ever noticed that the Jedi way is not always the right way? It wasn't wrong, Anakin. It may be not the Jedi way, but it was right. Perfectly natural--he took your head; you wanted revenge. And your revenge was justice." The Sidious goes on to act as a fatherly conspirator w/ Anakin acknowledging that he would keep Anakin's secret of the murder of Dooku just like he kept the secret of the slaughter of the Tusken Raiders. ***** page 153 (2) ***** The motivation for putting Anakin to spy on Sidious in the movie was not clear. In the novel it is clear that the Council suspects that the Sith Lord might be influencing Palpatine. Mace, "It is possible that we may have to... move against Palpatine. If he is truely under the control of the Sith Lord, it may be the only way." ***** page 163-164 (3) ***** The mystery over Padme's pregnancy is fully explained in the novel. Upon first coming back to Coruscant, Padme says, "Five months--how could they do that to us?" ... and in there reunion there's the first inkling of what is later to come (Vader force choking Padme). 'He took her by the shoulders now, his hands hard and irresistibly powerful. "I can feel it in the Force! There is something coming between us-- Who is it? Who?" His hands sprang open as though she had burned them. He took an unsteady step backward, his face suddenly ashen. "Padme--I would never--I'm so sorry, I just-- ***** (4) ***** Then there's the same no special effects laden scenes in the novel which do so much to flesh out the characters and their motivations. Page 189-90, Sidious and Anakin, "Nonsense, Age is no measure of wisdom. They keep you off the Council because it is there last hold they have on you, Anakin; it is how the control you. Once you're a Master, as you deserve, how will they make you do their bidding... You are not like them. You are younger. Stronger. Better. That is why they keep you down. They fear your power. They fear you." And oh so important is the exchange on page 191 between Anakin and Sidious, "This imaginary Sith Lord of theirs--even if he does exist, is he anyone to be feared? To be hunted down and exterminated without trial?" This directly sets up the Mace/Anakin/Sidious scene later and helps provide some insight into Anakin's mind at that juncture. Also, Sidious says that he would try and talk to the Dark Lord and see if he had any power to stop the war. Then perfectly paralleled on page 212 between Anakin and Obi-wan, "I would ask [the Sith Lord] if he has any power to save Padme ***** (5) ***** what happened to the formation of the Rebellion! page 204-206 with Mon Mothma, etc. ***** (6) pages 217-221 ***** actual good dialogue and human interaction between Anakin and Padme ***** Of course there's a lot more examples, I only highlighted a few from the first half of the novel. ***** (7) ***** There the Palpatine / Sidious transformation on pages 331 - 341 which explains why Sidious couldn't stop the force lightning, the mask of Palpatine and illustrates the final turn/acceptance to the dark side. ***** page 392 (8) ***** and what happened to these few simple lines of dialogue prior to the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel: Anakin "Nothing will happen. Nothing can happen. Let Palpatine call himself Emperor. Let him. He can do the dirty work, all the messy, brutal oppression it'll take to unite the galaxy forever--unite it against him. He'll make himself into the most hated man in history. And when the time is right, we'll throw him down--" or when Anakin realized Obi-Wan was a stow-away, Anakin "Palpatine was right. Sometimes it is the closest who cannot see. I loved you too much, Padme." "You turned her against me" ***** page 405-406 (9) ***** there is no mention of Obi-Wan having the high ground in the duel. It is just played out without the silly line of dialogue. ***** and finally, the last one I will highlight is with the construction of Darth Vader and the suit, page 417 'And you rage and scream and reach throught the Force to crush the shadow who has destroyed you, but you are so far less now than what you were, you are more than half machine, you are like a painter gone blind, a composer gone deaf, you can remember where the power was but the power you can touch is only a memory, and so with all your world-destroying fury it is only droids around you that implode, and equipment, and the table on which you were strapped shatters, and in the end, you cannot touch the shadow.'
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Sure she does... her adopted mother, Bail Organa's wife... who dies when Leia is young.
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I just love it when some self-righteous psycho-babbler attempts to chastise my parenting decisions. Thanks just the same, Barry, but you rear your kids and I'll rear mine. I'm sure you have some sort of autocolonic filing system where you can store your parenting advice.
My daughters (geeks all), by the way, love Star Wars and were enthralled by ROTS.
Notice that the rating was PG-13... P for parent... not BEG-13. -
I liked Revenge of the Sith okay, but I find the fanboy explanations of Leia's comments in Return of the Jedi pretty weak. One is "The Force"... uh huh. Then why doesn't Luke remember her? The other is the "she is remembering her adoptive Mother rather than the real Mother she thinks she is talking about." Uh huh... That would really ruin that scene in Jedi if so. That scene is supposed to be all about family, and to have Leia go off an a "wrong" description of Luke and Leia's Mother, and make her actually be, unknowingly, talking about her adoptive Mother by mistake is just a laughable idea. That's obviously not the intent in that scene, and it would really make that scene much less effective if that's the case. Luke is supposed to be hearing a description of his Mother there, not some fake idea that Leia has mixed up. It is the only mention of their Mother/Anakin's Wife/Padme in the whole of the Original Trilogy - you guys are actually trying to say Leai's actually wrong there, and the Original Trilogy would include a scene that is basically just a flight of fancy when it's supposed to be talking about Luke and Leia's Mom? The whole idea is just ridiculous. Quite obviously, the scene is supposed to be Leia remembering her real Mother, as if she was with her for a few years before being adopted. With the "new" Trilogy Lucas simply dropped the ball on making that make sense. It's just a big plot hole now, and instead of tailoring his story to what we already know from the Original Trilogy, Lucas leaves a gaping inconsistency up to internet fanboys to try and clumsily explain away. Admit it, it's simply bad storytelling, plain and simple - something Lucas has done quite a lot of in the Prequel Trilogy.
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I don't understand the fuss. Leia was held and named by her mother at birth. Padme's mood at that time was sad (heartbroken) but kind towards her children. And Leia, in her intuitive force memory, has that impression of her mother still in her memory. And Luke doesn't, probably because females are more intuitive and tuned in to those kind of feelings and memories. So it makes sense. Move on fanboys.
The real issue to me, is in regard to the supposed lucas ESB DVD re-edit plothole. In ROTS when Sidious tells Vader that he "killed padme himself with his anger" and Vader accepts it, #1 how does Palpatine know that shes dead and why does he lie that Vader did it (it would've been better if he did, perhaps?) and #2, when Vader finds out his children lived he should realize that he didn't kill his wife and then should turn out palpatine right away...
OR maybe thats why he was so intent on getting skywalker, as soon as he realized he had a son then he had a reason to overthrow the emperor and save what was left of his family.
Anyway I'm off to see ROTS for the third time.
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May 22, 2005 3:11:03 AM CDT
Upon second viewing the film becomes much more enjoyable. Take i
by battery
I understood it better, enjoyed many moments more and was not as offended by as much as during the first viewing. I will say that aside from the overwhelming CGI, Hayden, Natalie, disposable villains, and a few other things that make the prequels unacceptable to OT lovers, I had a good time tonight at the Ziegfeld. Biggest grievances outside of the huge things were: 1) The giant iguana (I hate that fucking lizard) 2) Vader's "Nooooooo!" -- I will say that the conversation should have happened, but it should have been PRE-MASK. He should have been a burning wretch and found out about Padme then. He screams "Noooo" as the mask is lowered, cutting off his screams. He's now locked in his tomb of hatred, and can be the Vader we all know. Of course it's "How's Padme? Is she....all right?" which is absurd. OK, that's it. The movie was a lot better the second time. Go see it again if you hated it the first time, but go with friends who want to have fun. Don't go miserable. And thanks to Lucas. We appreciate that you and the crew worked their asses off on this film.
-Battery is found in me. -
I've also seen it twice, and it was much better the second time(I liked it the first time, too, but better the second). Still, the film isn't close to the original trilogy, especially the more I reflect on it, and ROTS still has tons of flaws, both minor but terrible like the "Nooo!" and major story problems that weaken the whole saga. The Prequels remain a monumental missed opportunity, and while I enjoy watching ROTS enough while it's on, it could have and should have been so much more than it was. It was definitely the best of the Prequels, but what isn't better than those other turds(Episodes I and II). As for Leia, it IS a plot hole. Like I said, making internet fanboys carry your freakin' water and bend over backwards to come up with cheesy explanations is BAD STORYTELLING. Leia remembered her "real Mother" who died when she was "very young" according to Return of the Jedi. This obviously meant that Leia had been with her for two or three years to have such memories. Saying that the newborn memory is a "force"-aided memory and Luke doesn't have it "because he's a boy" is just a laughable stretch. Admit it - it's a stupid plot hole that would've been easy to fill. it's obvious and the storyteller should've made it work. Instead, he makes internet fanboys do his dirty laundry for him. Nice, George. How does the Emperor know Padme is dead? Who knows. Bad storytelling. But to the defense of this version of the story, the Emperor tells Vader he killed her to stir the hate in him and make his turn complete - he loses all will to be himself. He killed the only thing he loved - he is now Darth Vader forever. The Emperor smiled when he flipped out over the news - that's what Sith Lords do - lie and manipulate. Still, the Prequel story is very, very disappointing over what it should have been.
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really enjoyed this - loved many moments (yoda ET homage, vaders scream of anguish, the duals, the opening shot, the 2001 lunar planet), great performances and well paced - will grow in stature!!
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Hey, was it just me, or when Yoda is leaving Kashyyyk, does that scene seem very familiar? Has to be another reference to ET, but maybe I'm just reading too much into it.
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Apparently Spielberg did some uncredited guest directing on Sith due to he (among other things) letting George guest direct on Jurassic Park. Perhaps this accounts for the E.T. references. If E.T. references in Star Wars seem out of line to you, recall the booth of E.T.'s in the senate in The Random Penis. And the Star Wars figures scene in E.T. Quite possible, it is.
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I don't have time to read all these posts. Sorry if I'm bringing up old news. The only thing that felt odd to me at the end of episode 3 (which I loved btw)was wiping the memory of the droids. That's fine but there's still the fact that obi-wan knows the droids. In episode 4 Ben doesn't seem familiar with them. He's like "hello there little friend" maybe calling the droids friends is good enough for some ppl but I don't buy it. He's suppose to know these driods well. R2 was anakins droid, and C3P0 kept hanging around padme like a fricken maid! wouldn't he be more like "holy shit, R2D2 is that you???? what are you doing here?!" meh, that's my only complaint. lol not really a big one.
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It was as bad as the first. I'll share with you some of the discussion my friends had after we left the cinema (we are all huge Star Wars fans). No one can deny Lucas can paint a pretty picture - he has great cinematic ideas, but he is unable to thread a great story through these ideas. He should have admitted his weakness and accepted help on the screenplays from the start.
The other point that came out was he should have developed three scripts before even shooting Phantom Menace. Someone mentioned something about Shakespearian Tragedy; well we thought it would have been great if in Episode 1, Obi-Wan had fallen for Padme, in Episode 2, both were in love with her, causing heightened tension and drama between these three characters. However, Obi-Wan would choose the higher moral ground because of he is a Jedi, whereas Anakin could never give up his love for her, ultimately his undoing in Episode 3, where he is engulfed with jealousy (there are undertones of this already, but why is Anakin so paranoid of Obi-Wan and padme - he is the strongest Jedi ever! He should be able to sense what is going on!)
Also - Order 66 - I loved this sequence, but for the love of god why could not one of the jedi (beyond Yoda) sense the clones turning??? I know the die-hard fans blinded by the brand name will say that they were unable to use teh force (as stated in Episode 2 by Mace Windu) but there seems to me so much flaws in who can and who cannot use the force).
In short, our discussions concluded that our childhood had indeed been ruined, that the tight episodes 4, 5, and 6 had been ruined by these gargantuan prequels, and that they woyuld have been 10 times better had lucas focused on teh story and had to work to a budget instead of just squandering money on CGI. -
"On my second viewing it was as bad as the first." What the hell is the matter with you people? How many people are posting on here and hate the movie yet see it again? Man you are dumb. When I don't like a movie I don't see it again. Pretty simple. So why do you see ROTS twice? And then come here and yap about it. Weird, I say.
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Lots of people post annoying and cliche things...but you took the cake. You posted pretty much everything in one! Nice job! First of all, you rip Lucas for storytelling. Neat. Let me guess...Empire is your favorite, too? Second, you have a better story that should have been done. This or that should have been done, this or that should have been said...well I'll tell you what. When you and your chump friends release a movie let me know cause I want to see...I am sure it will be a guaranteed blockbuster...you seem to have such great ideas. And to go along with your second you nitpick the shit out of the PT. So what if Yoda couldn't sense the clones turning on the Jedi before it happened! Obviously the Jedi can't sense everything and the Force can't be all powerful all the time...how good would any of the 6 movies be if everything was "sensed" before it happend. Think about that for a bit. Third, Lucas ruined your childhood. Get a grip, dude! Everyone who says that is more embarassing then the people who are supposedly blinded just because they like all 6 movies. And what is wrong with CGI? Too much of it? Gimme a break. Someone said what happened to the interesting planets like Hoth and Endor, the real environments from the OT...why are all the new planets CGI and lame. Again, retarded. Yes, the AT-ATs looked so real in that powdered snow. Fuck off...AT-ATs are cool even though they now look fake...tauntauns are cool even though they now look fake...and Mustafar and Geonosis and Coruscant are all kick ass even though they are CGI. What does it really matter. I guess I'll stop here...because I could keep going...
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The emperor looked like a tool when he was bellowing and crying to Anakin, I think he was supposed to be holding back tho to get Anakin to help save him. But he was so obviously acting he looked like an idiot. Dr.Evilesque with how fake his performance was.
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Nice try to save your failing argument, but Leia knew that she was adopted. Are you seriously telling me that if someone said to you, "What's your first memory of your REAL mother?", you'd blithely tell them about the only mother you'd ever known? Or would you say, "My REAL mother? What do you mean by that?"
The fact of the matter is that Lucas never had this whole plot fleshed out in his head right from the start as some people seem to think. He has admitted as much himself. He had the major themes in place but not all the details, and this has lead to continuity errors at times. At the time of the original Star Wars he wasn't even thinking of having Luke and Leia turn out to be siblings. -
Aunt Beru did not age well. She appeared young in ROTS, perhaps in her early twenties. 18-20 years later, at the time of ANH, she looked like she was in her 60s. What gives?
But alas, I am a true Star Wars purist. I have spent the last 27 years ignoring any post Star Wars "dilution". Luke Skywalker is a farm boy, his father was a great star pilot who was murdered by the villainous Darth Vader. The idea that Darth Vader is Luke's father is ludicrous. -
May 23, 2005 4:10:41 PM CDT
What is everyone's favorite scene? We have heard repeatedly what
by nemler
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This film was superb. And what's more, the much criticised rapid turn has, in my opinion been missinterpreted. Anakin does not actually turn to the Dark side at this juncture, you can see the regret in his eyes, the confusion, as he kneels before Sidious. Christensen can barely bring himself to look at his new master. He realises that, in light of what he has done, he must kneel. But, and this is critical, he has not yet accepted the Dark Side as his Creed. This occurs ONLY in the final confrontation scene between him, Padme and Obi Wan. In this scene, Anakin (as portrayed by Christensen) truley seems to BELIEVE in the non-sense that he is spouting. He has begun to reject the Jedi code (he rejected the jedi themselves long before), and embrace his new principles. Rather than idly speculating, Anakin now lays down his imperialistic philosophy in declarative appeals to Padme. In short, there is something slightly "off" about Anakin in this scene, he is unhinged, his eyes are all violence and fury, but also vacant (and I mean that as a compliment to his acting skills).
It is here that Anakin becomes Darth Vader. Finally losing his regret and with it his humanity. Interestingly, when he kills the kids and the seperatists he wears his hood. Not a necessary thing to do given that they all recognise him anyway. I truly believe he is wearing his hood because during these scenes his is truley ashamed of his actions. He is hiding behind a physical barrier of sorts. The last vestiges of his former self. Then, finally, staring into the fires of hell with a tear in his eye, he accepts that all is lost. It is here, in this small and subtle scene that Darth Vader is finally born. And it is in the next scene that he is finally revealed.
Have I read too much into this? I dunno. I've seen the film twice now and I truly believe that the finale is both written and acted to portray a slightly more gradual descent.
Kneeling before Sidious, Anakin is all sorrow and regret. Standing before Padme and Obi Wan, he is Darth Vader.
I say: Homerun Lucas! This film was great. Alot more challenging than really ANY of the other movies. However it certainly was not improved by the ridiculous NOOOOOO scream, and Padme's lack of will as cause of death.
I am never the less convinced that the complex tragedy presented in this exciting and astonishingly beautiful film renders it a modern classic. Go back and watch it again, and keep doing it until you haters have lost the will to hate it anymore. Then, and only then will you realise what a really, really, good film Georgy actually made (whether he meant to or not).
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There have been lots of people in the real world that claim to remember being in the womb, even without the help of the force. There have also been studies that show children can remember music that was played for them in the womb. I'm not going to get bent all out of shape at the suggestion a character in a fairy tale with inborn mystical powers could remember her mothers face from birth. Also, I really dont think it would be better storytelling to tack on some scene of Padme living in hiding for an extra four years, then having some contrived death before the Leia is somehow saved and whisked off to Alderaan.
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er..not "the Leia", just "Leia"..well you know what I meant
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**Ben
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Am I the only one who saw this? Don't remember off the top of my head which scene it was in... but I saw the Millenium Falcon (or Millenium Falcon look a like) docking below as the main characters were flying in to dock on the planet where all the crap happened (Senate, etc). Yeah, I know the Millenium Falcon was not a one off design but a mass produced freighter. Still, it's the only time I saw that ship.
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Palpatine: Your hater excuses are lost, and your friends clinging to the pre-SE OT Laserdiscts will not survive...there is no escape from my 6 episode magnum opus my young apprentice, the Haters Alliance will die, as will your childhood. Gooood I can feel your anger. I am defenceless. Flame me down with all your grasping at straws ROTS nitpicks and your journey toward the dork side will be complete.
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May 24, 2005 10:13:45 AM CDT
Dagan: you are not going to become correct simply by repeating y
by evergreen
I'm sorry, but the new scene doesn not require you to "read into it" any more than the old scene. Vader is STILL obsessed with finding Luke, he STILL goes to Hoth because he is "sure Skywalker is with them" yet, when the Emperor brings Skywalker up, he says "how is that possible" thus REINFORCING the notion that he is keeping something secret from the Emperor. Sorry if you missed that, but you are still wrong.
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The Falcon is indeed in the movie, in the scene you described. It's also in AOTC, when Anakin and Padme arrive on Naboo.
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