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SWEEPS: DAY 16!Herc
SPOILER ALERT !!
Star Trek: Enterprise 4.22 FAQ
What’s it called?
“These are the Voyages … ”
Who’s responsible?
Teleplay is credited to series creators Rick Berman & Brannon Braga (“Zero Hour”).
So Herc’s only seen the second of Friday night’s two hours of “Trek”?
This is correct. And I have every suspicion the first hour, “Terra Prime,” may be the better installment, if only because my favorite “Enterprise” writers – Gar and Judy Reeves-Stevens – have wisely been charged with scripting it.
Ah HA! So you admit that “These Are The Voyages …” is, as Jolene Blalock described it, “appalling”!!
It is not appalling. It is certainly the weakest “Trek” series finale since 1969’s “The Turnabout Intruder,” but this represents faint condemnation. The episode boasts … virtues.
What does TV Guide say?
“After four years of seeking out new worlds, the crew reaches the end of a long road in an affecting finale that explores its legacy. Next Generation’s Jonathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis play pivotal roles in the story, set 200 years after Archer’s era. To deal with a personal crisis, Cdr. Riker (Frakes) uses the holodeck to relive Enterprise’s final voyage – six years after the antialien revolt. During that trip, Archer detours from his route to the first Federation conference to save an old ally’s kidnapped daughter – a mission that ends in tragedy for the crew.”
Tragedy for the crew?? Does a regular die?
He does.
He! So it’s not T’Pol or Hoshi?
It is not.
What else is TV Guide not telling us?
TV Guide lies to you! The Enterprise is not headed for the first Federation anything! Witness Troi’s line near episode’s end: “I wish I could tell them all that this alliance will give birth to the Federation.”
What’s good?
The fact that the TNG regulars play decidedly supportive roles. The loving recreation of the Enterprise-D, with its strangely multihued new-age consoles and oddly-shaped arches. The Patrick Stewart body-double glimpsed so fleetingly in the opening seconds of act one. Jeffrey Combs generally, but especially the way he spits out “former associates.” The little Andorian girl. The “flashback.” No Ferengi! The always-compelling Blalock, betraying onscreen no hint of her contempt for the teleplay. “Did you find him attractive?” The Phlox moment that recalls too vividly the promise of the “Enterprise” pilot. T’Pol’s final scene.
What’s not so good?
Data’s eye-rolling dialogue. Stiffly stifferton Frakes, who demonstrates for the thousandth time why Patrick Stewart, Michael Dorn and Brent Spiner so effortlessly and consistently overshadowed him. The too-familiar “big” rescue scene that ends act two. The regular’s death that carries curiously little resonance. “You sound like my ninth-grade teacher.”
How does it end, spoiler-boy?
Thanks to a suggestion from writer Mike Sussman (“Twilight”), Jonathan Archer, Jean-Luc Picard and Jim Kirk have words with us.
Herc’s rating for “Star Trek: Enterprise” 4.22?
***1/2
The Hercules T. Strong Rating System:
***** better than we deserve
**** better than most motion pictures
*** actually worth your valuable time
** as horrible as most stuff on TV
* makes you quietly pray for bulletins
8 p.m. Friday. UPN.
I am – Hercules!!
Seasony Star Trek Goodness:
Star Trek: Enterprise 1.x
Star Trek: Enterprise 2.x
Star Trek 1.x
Star Trek 2.x
Star Trek 3.x
Star Trek: The Next Generation 1.x
Star Trek: The Next Generation 2.x
Star Trek: The Next Generation 3.x
Star Trek: The Next Generation 4.x
Star Trek: The Next Generation 5.x
Star Trek: The Next Generation 6.x
Star Trek: The Next Generation 7.x
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine 1.x
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine 2.x
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine 3.x
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine 4.x
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine 5.x
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine 6.x
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine 7.x
Star Trek: Voyager 1-7.x
Looking for bumper stickers, plush toys and girls’ underwear covered with cute cartoon double-amputees? Visit The Herc Store!
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That is all.
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A moment of silence for the franchise that gave me my nom de net and 18 years of entertainment.
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IS THE REST OF HARRY'S DVD PICKS?!IT'S THE ONLY THING WORTH READING NOWADAYS.there is so much information...so many movies that harry has seen and most can agree it really makes for great internet articles.
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And then lop off his hand? Cuz that's what I heard happens.
Gawd Starz Tekkx is teh suck these days. Veddy sad. -
Gee, wonder what Berman's Trek prequel movie is about?
Ever notice Star Trek started to suck once they stopped taking fan script submissions? -
May 13, 2005 2:15:32 AM CDT
Can't wait, if only to see the old Ent-D back in action again, a
by thunderballs
Wish I could just watch the parts featuring Next Gen stuff. Can;t believe I have to wade through the mouth high shit known as Enterprise to get there. Oh the things I do for the love of all things TNG, except Nemesis, which I refuse to believe is canon.
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May 13, 2005 2:25:29 AM CDT
Glad its has come to an end. Brings us closer to better times fo
by valorific
As long as B&B ain
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Basically it ends with all three captains doing the "Space, The final frontier monolog" while the three ships sail by with their respective theme songs playing (TMP/TNG for the E-D, very subtle groovy TOS theme, and Archers theme which is what Enteprises themesong was supposed to be) with it closing with the Star Trek fanfare
Little tidbit, the TOS E is the Defiant redone and the all new E-D model (which is gorgious and blows even the live action model out of the water) was made by the infamous Gabe from Trekkies. yes THAT Gabe, who now works for the art department for Enterprise. -
At long last, the death of a tepid waste of money and attention. I'll go against popular opinion--The masturbatory session of Season 4 is the worst year yet. Continuity is great as icing on the cake. But Enterprise is like jamming the tube of icing down your throat. Too sugary, no filling. I'm going to take a sick and pathetic satisfaction from seeing the character in question die. The cast was the weak link. Even on Voyager, Braga could handle eight or nine characters on a weekly basis. Enterprise failed to remember they had beyond three.
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90% of the time TOS failed to remember it had more characters than Kirk Spock and McCoy too. The difference was that the others where likeable, Phlox was great and could and did hold a whole episode, and Hoshi was decent and did a good job in the episodes where she was holding her own, but Reed and Marryweather where just not interesting, espeicially the later one who HAD whole episodes dedicated to him but he dropped the ball early on, even in the two parter before the end where they gave him more to do again he still blew chunks bigger than Harry (how can they kill me today) Kim.
And anyone who thinks Voyager was better than Enterprise has no taste sorry to say. TOS, TNG DS9 ok but not VOY. -
But that's like saying cat droppings are tastier than dog crap. It might be better than the other option, but why would you want to experience either one? I watched some episodes of Enterprise, but it never seemed to rise above mediocrity. Star Trek needs a rest and some new hands at the helm, and maybe it'll someday be good again.
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That's what TOS was based around, right down to the cast. Kirk, Spock, McCoy -- a wonderful triumvirate. Kirk representing the human dilemma, Spock advising him to go one way (the more intellectual way), and McCoy advising him to go the more emotional way. It worked. ENT, however, doesn't have that. Trip is a Southern jack-ass who seems half-irate, a quarter gung-ho, and a quarter jack-ass-y. T'Pol, played with at least some intelligence and skill by Jolene, is a woefully under-written anti-Vulcan who at various times has been a sex-possessed maniac and a drug-addict. Archer--well, one can write an entire essay on the Great Asshole of the Galaxy, but in this case, the less said, the better. Phlox was always entertaining to watch, but playing the same role as Picardo did on Voyager, and as a Doctor, was mainly just the exposition source. Just because the producers miscast and under-characterized Reed, Hoshi, and Mayweather doesn't mean the audience needs to suffer a focus on the main three atrocious characters. If you have three cast members who aren't working, do the hard but right thing--write them out and create three news, interesting characters for remotely talented actors. When Voyager had a problem with Kes, they wrote her out and brought in 7 of 9. Now, Voyager was a slightly more painful experience than a night in the Gulag, but I can at least tell you what the show was thematically about--the search for home, being lost, the loneliness of space. Enterprise was about nothing--not overcoming xenophobia, not problems with technology, not exploration, and not the birth of greater alliances... Yeah, I wrote too much. Fuck it. I'm in a verbose mood.
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is that the whole of Star Trek (original series), ST:TNG, ST:DS9 and ST: Voyager is just an extended dream sequence. Only Enterprise is real.
And whose dream is it?
Captain Archer's dog, of course.
Woof woof. Explains a lot. -
With all it's Rushing about and then treating the fact that they got home as almost an after thought- "Oh look, we're home. What's for lunch?"- VOYAGER's ending was terrible. It lacked any moment of emotioal relase for it's characters and, by extension, its audience. I only watched the show sporadiclly as I found it so wretched in the writing, but I was appalled that they stumbled that badly. If tonight is weaker than that, I just may skip the second hour, and I've been enjoying this season of ENTERPRISE more than any STAR TREK incarnation in the past 12 years or so...
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May 13, 2005 8:33:47 AM CDT
PLEASE!!! SOMEONE TAKE AWAY MY BELT AND SHOESTRINGS!!!
by cutest_of_borg
What is life without Trek? Thank God I've got a hot wife. YEEE HAHHH!!!
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I'll adopt Porthos...please don't send him to the Federation Pound! www.chancesspot.org
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and it's not half bad. It could have been more but unlike " Turnabout Intruder " it has a feeling of " end " to it. Anyone who cares anything for Trek and what it's done for us over the last 18 years will feel a little wistful when the Captin's have a word with us at the end. I really hope sometime somewhere ST surfaces again. I don't think it's franchise fatigue as much as it's B & B fatigue. Perhaps with new people and a new start.....
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Remember the discussions where Chakotay and B'Elanna wondered what would happen to them once they returned to the Alpha Quadrant because they were Maquis? Or what would happen to Paris or Seven? So 99% of VOYAGER's finale is spent still dicking around in the Delta Quadrant and all at once, BOOM -- They're back, cue the closing credits. WHAT THE HELL?! That finale alone should have been reason to fire Berman and Braga (not to mention the rest of VOYAGER, but noooooo...)
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But enterprise is crap. Still the most fun to be had is watching the guys in miniskirts from Next Gen TELEVISION MAGIC. I REPEAT.... TELEVISION MAGIC.
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No words from Captains Sisko and Janeway?
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Neither Sisko or Janeway were captains of the Enterprise. Never mind. Well then we should also have some words from CAPTAIN PIKE, damn it! :)
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May 13, 2005 10:38:58 AM CDT
Star Wars and Star Trek coming to their ends within less than a
by cknightshift
There's a meaning here, I'm sure of it...
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"Is space the final frontier?"
"BEEP"
"Are these the voyages of the starship Enterprise?"
"BEEP"
"Did their mission last the full five years?"
"BEEP BEEP"
..etc -
May 13, 2005 10:44:24 AM CDT
....yaaaawn! ........Does anyone know when the Season 2 of BSG b
by kai_mah'gra
Also, can someone please give Ron Moore the greenlight (and $$$) to helm, or at least start another Sci-Fi series? Given how the Bash brothers ( Boreman and Bluther) have completely screwed anything Trek-related, up its collective ass over the last 15-18 years, and also given that the only laudable an memorable Trek-related "enterprise", if you excuse the pun, in the same period of time that anyone can remember, is First Contact which Moore co-wrote, shouldn't it follow that if they wanted to do anything new Trek-wise, he was the man to call? Trust B and B to mess things up big time. Good thing Moore got his own series which kicked butt, and now the only thing worth looking forward to on Sci-FI is BSG Season 2; I hope they bring Adama back. I also can't wait to catch the reruns of Season 1 on NBC when they do replay them; does anyone know when those go on, as well?
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And for the record, Battle Star 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers' Galactica sucks ass.
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Give Trek a 10 or possibly a 15 year haitus. Get some fresh new eyes to look at the TOS and TNG. Take it from there. The problem with the programs after those two derive from temporal or historical problems.
In other series and off-shoots (like- All in the Family or Happy Days) is that there was no sci-fi hocus-pocus exposition. Not that those examples don't have their issues. But you certainly can't explain away stuff by time-space rifts or alternate universes.
I'd like to see a series about the Eugenics Wars, how civilization survived after the nuclear holocaust, what happened after the 5-year mission ended or even Smallville-type based on Kirk's early experiences. -
Even if you don't think that Manny Coto improved the series durring the final season, or you think that he played the continuity card too much, I DARE you to watch at least ONE epiode written by Gar and Judy Reeves-Stevens (like "The Forge", "Observer Effect") and tell me that they aren't some of the best written for Trek in a long time...the saddest part about Enterprise's demise is that *they* my get partially blamed for it, when they aren't to blame at all, and they tried their hardest to save it...they just didn't have a lot to work with (but they did a hell of a job despite that) and if Trek *does* ever come back - in film or tv - TPTB need to seriously consider bringing this team on board...but sadly, they probably won't, they'll just hired some "new blood" that knows nothing about the show and is just as weak as before...Enterprise was just so deeply flawed that maybe it couldn't be saved, but the Reeves-Stevens helped it die with some modicum of dignity...hell, fire Bergma, and let G&J R-S and Coto *create* a new show from the ground up (maybe with a little advice from Roone Moore) and we'll see if it's "franchise fatigue", of if it's REALLY Bergma fatigue...
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and saying so doesn't make me a virgin. They talk about getting to earth for 7 years, they get to earth and it's over. I wasn't expecting a 1/2 hour Lord of the Rings coda, but some kind of resolution was warranted.
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I believe, despite my better judgment, that Real Deal (along with Cutesofborg) is right about one thing, I will feel wistful when Trek ends tonight. I have (something RD has said I
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I haven't seen it, but it sounds like this episode takes place BEFORE Nemesis (or Generations for that matter) because Herc refers to "the loving recreation of the Enterprise-D, with its strangely multihued new-age consoles and oddly-shaped arches."
Agreed about Nemesis, though, it sucked sweaty donkey balls. -
thanks alot jackass, you made me spit coffee on my computer screen...
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Totally incorrect, sir. In fact, I don't recall posting about the wife in quite a while. Can't a guy be proud of his better half? By no means do I intend to impress with those comments. She is, in fact, almost as big a Trek fan as I am. Also, I usually refer to her as the Borg Queen when I post. Sorry, chief.
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Rock on, dude. I look forward to our debates when Trek's next incarnation appears. ***REAL DEAL - keep the faith, brother.
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May 13, 2005 12:32:27 PM CDT
Does Troi where that crazy 'I show you one of my boobs' top?
by -guyinthebackrow
You know, the one that shows a bunch of cleavage, but only of one boob. That was the oddest costume ever.
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Bwah ha ha. You wish, haters.
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I'm glad that there are a lot of people reviewing the episode that aren't bashing it to death. While it should not have been the finale of Enterprise, there are much better ways they could have ended it, it's a good stand alone episode.
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Cutest of Borg is a man? Lesbian? Now I'm really confused.
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...that one of the crew members was ghey? It's Archer, right? HEEEEEELLOOOOOOO FRISCOOOOOO!!! ;-)
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Easily the worst of the bunch. Completely implausible, dumb plot, it was just ridiculous. And Voyager actually succeeded in making me sick of the Borg as villains. They used to actually be scary, back in TNG. They were just toothless old dogs in Voyager. Plus the issue of them getting home and not showing anything that happens afterwards... Christ at least give us a montage or something, after SEVEN YEARS.
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May 13, 2005 1:20:03 PM CDT
I Dunno: ....yeah, right... BSG sucks ass........which is why we
by kai_mah'gra
.....oh wait.....that's right, they cancelled that pile of tripe, and it was UPN, no less, that did it. So I guess we'll only be watching the sucky BSG which was loved so much by Sci-Fi and NBC that they are thinking of moving it from Sci-Fi to the network TV if the rerun of Season 1 on NBC and Season 2 on Sci-Fi, is a hit (which it will be). FYI I am a Star Trek fan ( of the TOS, TNG and movies 1-8, order, anyway) and I was merely stating the obvious. Enteprise which started out with a great deal of promise, has sadly stumbled to the finish line like the last 3 Trek Series and will sadly, but not too surprisingly, NOT be missed by anyone. Bottom-line: 'Enterprise' - Sucked and an general embarrasment to the Rodenberry's original vision. 'BSG' - highly popular, highly entertaining and great improvement on the original.
If you can't handle that, then that's your freaking problem!!! Enjoy your SERIES finale!!!! -
I thought the final moments of Voyager ending were just fine. We *had* heard over the years of what the characters where thinking of doing for their homecoming, and the episode itself gave a hint as to what was in store for some of them once they went back. It ended exactly how I envisioned it years before--the ship approaching Earth, finally in sight. My only beef with the final moments was that there should've been a nicer, longer, lingering shot of the crew on the bridge beholding the view and reacting to it. I'm not too keen on the rest of the episode itself (hated the Seven/Chakotay thing that seemed to be thrown into the last episodes, for one), but I for one liked that Voyager didn't go beyond that final shot, and let our imaginations (and the novelists) take over from there.
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They got home. Janeway spent years in Starfleet as an admiral. The Doctor became a holo-rights activist, Tuvok went mad. Then Janeway went back in time and sacrified herself to simply make it all happen sooner and to spare Tuvok. What's not tied up?
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When Janeway went back in time, she changed "history," and what would happen with the Voyager crew would be rather different from what had happened in the other timeline.
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100% man - and then some.
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With their names on it, you think people are going to watch? Maybe to see Troy's booobs and T'pols boobs and hope that they will have a lesbian scene together but it wont happen.
Now if B and B could just be booted from the Paramount lot, it would make most fans exstastic. -
May 13, 2005 2:09:53 PM CDT
I think B&B assumed things would go down pretty much the same.
by cookylamoo
so they didn't have to show it. I can't see where getting back sooner would have made that big a difference. Tuvok would be saved. Some crewmembers would be saved and, of course, at some point Janeway would have to send herself back in time to die just to make sure her changes stuck. From the end of Voyager I got the feeling that the next big event in the ST universe would be a holographic revolution and war between humans and light beings.
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May 13, 2005 2:22:22 PM CDT
UK fans should catch Deep Space Nine repeats on Sky One/Sky Mix
by rapmaster c
Quality television. We're in season 2 now, just before the whole Jem Hadar/Dominion storyline kicks off. As for Enterprise, I wasn't much of a fan at the beginning - the time slot just didn't suit me. I have to admit though, I caught some episodes of season 4 and I did enjoy them. Here's to Star Trek returning soon. Regarding Voyager, I too found the ending too abrupt. Even if they couldn't have shown the crew reuniting with their families, I would (as someone else mentioned) have liked a more poignant moment at the end.
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May 13, 2005 2:44:27 PM CDT
Right, Voyager's finale gave us twice the Janeway...man B&B have
by big bad clone
"Fans love the Marquis, let's make that part of the next series"
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...set another hundred years or so after the end of Voyager, mainly to prevent "old Trek guest star of the week" syndrome. All of the incarnations of Trek so far have been "frontier" shows - whether exploring the galaxy in TOS, a bit further out in TNG, the wormhole in DS9 or the Delta quadrant in Voyager. They were mainly exploring an unknown region of the galaxy and encountering new alien races. So what if the next Trek wasn't a frontier show? How about the whole of the galaxy already having been explored, so they have to explore the rivalries, tensions and politics between worlds which know each other too well. Intergalactic travel not yet mastered, so there's nowhere to go (unless outside invaders come to us). The Borg having finally been defeated, only a few rogue cells left to be hunted down. Holograms been given civil rights, but still treated as an underclass by 'solids'. Time travel is on the verge of being perfected, but is given the status of "weapon of mass destruction". Development of such technology is banned, but this causes tensions between the different alien races. Because there are strong rumours that there has been interference in the timeline which has always benefitted Earth and the Federation, and some want to redress the balance...
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Very thankful that this show has been put out of its misery. I enjoyed season 1 and then like everyone else watched horrified as the show went down the shitter due to poor writing. As Blalock keeps pointing out, 13 million watched the pilot and only 3 million tune in now. I read somewhere that we might not see any new TV shows or movies ever again. Paramount are going to concentrate on video games. They believe that the gaming industry will evolve to the point where TV or movies become irrelevant to the core Trek audience. They can satisfy their Trek jones by buying the new game where they get to captain the original Enterprise or hang out with Picard and Data. I also love Brannon and Braga talking about the movie they are putting together. They keep saying they are taking a whole new approach to doing a Trek movie. It sounds to me like they are back to pitching ideas at Paramount like rookies. Writing a script totally on spec.
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I think the next Trek series should be set in our own century in our own decade. It should focus on the gritty reality of dealing with a security force and judicial system in a very large city dealing with street crime, drug abuse, prostitution. It should follow the science officers who process crime scenes with all the latest high tech gear; it should follow the hard line uniformed security teams that go on away missions to apprehend illegal aliens and threatning forces, and it should perhaps focus also on the buraracy and tension of maintaining justice. The series name, well, Star Trek Law and Order. Maybe it can have cameos of Riker's great, great, great...great grandmother who was hooking and doing crack.
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Watch the first episode but not the second. If the ratings vanished completely for the Berman/Braga episode but were normal for the other one, it would be hard for them to keep denying it's not their fault. But it's probably too hard for some of you to just plain not watch a single episode of Star Trek...
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Goddamn man, mellow out. I was merely trying to inject a little humor into (for me) a sad situation. The point of the humor (lame as it was) was that now that Trek is over I guess I'll make time for the wife on Friday evenings. Bottom line: I'm here posting for my own amusement and could give a shit what anyone thinks. Especially this crowd. No offense, brother.
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May 13, 2005 4:25:50 PM CDT
"But it's probably too hard for some of you to just plain not wa
by i dunno
....and most of us don't have Nielson ratings boxes attached to our TVs, so what we watch or don't watch means precisely dick.
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May 13, 2005 4:39:54 PM CDT
Kirk, Picard and Archer -- WHERE'S THE LOVE FOR THE OTHERS?
by johnny smith
Sisko and Janeway. Sure, they weren't Enterprise captains -- and Janeway was a pretty shit character -- but if this is truly the end of Trek -- which I whole-heartedly hope it is not -- they deserve a place here. You can't just forget all those hours of television just because they didn't have an Enterprise in them. DS9 was the best of the series -- it deserves at least some kind of love. And Voyager, though I'm loathe to admit it, was important, too -- it should be mentioned.
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test.
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May 13, 2005 5:14:36 PM CDT
SPOILER: Bacula leap's out of Archer's body into Theordore Riker
by grabthars_hammer
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...were still more than DOUBLE those of Enterprise even in its WORST years.
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"How about the whole of the galaxy already having been explored, so they have to explore the rivalries, tensions and politics between worlds which know each other too well."
Actually, this was the complaint about TNG, that they were too much in Federation space and too little exploring. This was the argument for *gasp* Voyager being thrown out into the Delta Quadrant where *everything* would be exploring. But then they went and screwed it by sticking with the Kazon for 2 years. -
was not the series finale, just the last episode aired. Back then TV shows didn't have "finale's", they just stopped.
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May 13, 2005 5:49:03 PM CDT
it sucks and there will be a better replacement don't forget tha
by angrykirby.tk
enterprise was never a good show. the next star treck will be better. especially if they start hireing fanboys to write because, they actually know what fans want to see
or spend the money on a hardedged lobo tv series. lobo! -
May 13, 2005 6:01:05 PM CDT
I meant that the new series should be set ENTIRELY within known
by supertoyslast
I know that all of the shows revisited known races and known threats. But the majority of episodes were dealing with the unknown, leading to lots of exposition to explain the new situation. I just think it might be more interesting (or at least worth trying) to have a show set entirely around recurring races and the politics involved. When the crew meddle in a planet's affairs their actions should have consequences that reverberate for many episodes to come. Instead of visiting a new species, finding a problem and sorting out an entire society's difficulties in one episode with no comeback. I'd love to see what that would be like EVERY week.
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Scott Bakula on yet another series with a stupid ending. Hehe!
We should have known, people! He must have used the Hurley numbers. -
Cuz the characters suck. They're all pussies. Artificial and contrived pussies! Methinks this franchise is truly cooked this time. And what would even be the point of taking it in a new direction unless you were going to exploit what came before? Just do a completely new show that has nothing to do with Star Trek! TOS rocked. It's amazing to see how good stories hold up without any whizbang special effects. I think the best thing they could do--if they do another series--is give it a shoestring budget that will force them to be creative rather than throw cash at special effects. Pull a group of young unknowns with solid acting chops from the theater world--actors that can deliver a monologue and make it interesting--round up a group of young writers--a few comic books types, a few screenwriter types, one or two sci-fi writers, one or two literary writers, and someone who knows comedy--pay them fairly, and tell them they can go wherever they want with this thing, no oversight from any estates or studio people, no restrictions, and I guarantee you'll have a show worth watching.
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I refuse to beleive that a Starfleet Captain would seriously alter a timeline, with possibly catestrophic unintended consequences (Voyager was almost destroyed by the Borg), just to make something happen a few years earlier.
Plus the Chakotay/Seven romance was just lame. -
May 13, 2005 8:20:50 PM CDT
Why only Kirk and Picard? because nobody cares about anything el
by darth voodoo
Hey Johnny Smith:
It's only Kirk and Picard because nobody gives a shit about DS9,Voyager or Enterprise.
Kirk and Picard are Star Trek to the vast majority of people. The average person doesn't care about new Star Trek.
Why do you think they brought Riker and Troi on for the ENTERPRISE final? And were on their hands and knees to bring back Shatner/Kirk in a final attempt to save the series?
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It's only those three cause they captained Enterprises. Sisko and Janeway didn't. Simple.
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That was terrible. In the episode, old Janeway wasn't in "the future", she was in the present, and all the stuff with Tuvok and dead crewmen already happened, and was in THE PAST. You don't go back in time and change the past to suit your selfish needs. Would Janeway have saved Keeler too? Ick.
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We had a thunderstorm, and the UPN station is knocked out. NO FINALE? After months of advertising, they can't get their butts out there and fix the transmitter before 8:00 PM? Meanwhile, the Detroit station is playing it, but because of the stupid FCC blackouts, we aren't allowed to watch on that station. So no Enterprise for Lansing! Curses!
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Just go to http://www.psychosidious.com/ and read what I had to say on why Trek is dead. I dare you. Berman and Braga can ___KNEEL___ before me since I am going psychosidious.
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May 13, 2005 9:46:39 PM CDT
So far, I'm FAR more impressed with tonight's first episode.....
by boynamedsue
And I nearly cried at the end of the Steven's episode. Berman and Bragga's series finale, however, is a bore. These two men should be BANNED from the Paramount lot after tonight.
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I can see how Blalock said what she said. The whole point of Enterprise was to give Riker advice on an old TNG episode. Pretty weak. And we didn't even get to hear the speech.
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May 13, 2005 10:05:50 PM CDT
terra prime= true series finale; "these are the voyages..."= nos
by atomheartbrother
but also somewhat good rubbish because at least it acknowledges that it is the end of an era. heck, even a cultural era even. and mark my words, eventually you will regret it's passing...
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Were captains of the Enterprise and they weren't alternately a wimp or a bastard like Archer constantly is. But I also think Sisko deserves a fair shake as a seriously badass commander -> captain. DS9 was, after all, the best of the series (if you question it, I suggest you objectively watch the first two seasons of TNG and compare).
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The show is called Enterprise. What the hell do the other captains have to do with the Enterprise? It's the end of the show, not the end of Star Trek. There's no reason for the others.
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Wasn't that good, either. The NextGen subplot was just sad. They had so little faith in their ability to tell a good story within the framework of the current series that they had to trade on the good will earned by series past. Weird choices throughout, too. Last view of Trip is sliding into a hole with an idiot grin on his face. Archer's last words to T'Pol are "You never liked crowds." WTF was that about? The last view of the crew is them sitting, obviously bored, watching the show. Maybe they were supposed to represent us, but I'm thinking it was unconscious irony.
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that ep sucked like commies. thank god BSG is on!
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I forgot how old Riker and Troi looked back then. Glad they got those facelifts before "Generations" happened!
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I don't think Rick Berman is that bad a producer. Remember, they used to say that Gene Roddenberry was a lousy producer but Gene Coon was the one who did all the best stirring on the original series. Brannon Braga is one of the worst writer ever. His plots are so repetitive and dull and what's worst is he didn't seen to look at why people were impressed by the other writer's work.
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if they really wanted to involve Riker and Troi then fine but why use them from TNG? i dont see any reason why they couldn't have just continued from Nemesis and have the story take place on Riker's ship since he became a captain. and since he married Troi it would've made sense to have her around too. they probably just wanted to get the nostalgia factor by using the old uniforms and Enterprise-D but it was still pointless. at least if they would have continued, them looking older wouldnt be a problem. oh and about the whole voiceover thing, someone said its the end of Enterprise and not Trek but thats wrong. it IS the end of Trek, at least for now, sure they might make more movies but there probably wont be another tv series for a long time. its true that Janeway and Sisko didnt captain an Enterprise so it made sense in that way, but since this was an ending for the franchise as well as the show, including those 2 wouldnt have been a bad idea. i do have one question though about Data. was that voiceover from a previous episode or even the TNG episode this connected with or did Spiner record it just for this finale?
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... until Archer's applause garnering speech at the end. My wife I both groaned aloud and the schlockiness of that bit of hackery. Here's hoping the second hour has a better ending.
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She did it to save Tuvok and some crewmen and to spare us ten more years of boring Voyager adventures. My hats off to the lady. I'm also grateful we didn't have to watch the six years of Enterprise where nothing exciting happened either. Turns out the founding of the Federation was about as exciting as cheese ripening. It could only have worked if Shatner had played chef. Frankes seemed to be channeling Shatner anyway. Bring on the next Trek show. I'm ready.
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...I agree with you that a series dealing with the Federation, its worlds and politics would rock. In many ways that's what DS9 was, with the response to the Dominion and the challenges of bringing Bajor to the point of Federation membership. I'd highly recommend the continuation of DS9 through the novels that have come out in the last four years - certain aspects of the politics of the Federation and the effects on a world when it joins the Federation are amazingly detailed and mature in their execution.
It's crystal clear to me that this franchise is not bereft of ideas, just lacking in the will and leadership to make good TV and movies from those ideas. -
May 13, 2005 10:54:30 PM CDT
I seriously doubt that this is the end of the franchise, Bouncy
by i dunno
and in case anyone missed it, the Riker/Troi subplot was set during an episode of TNG, the one where Riker 'fesses up to the coverup surrounding a cloaking device that was on his old ship. He was trying to decide whether or not to admit the truth and was in the holodeck for advice. Like I said, lame.
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That truely was appalling. The concept of the finale was fine but the actual story was awful. How could they not have T'Pol present at Tripp's death? They missed an opportunity to have her show her emotions over his loss and cry. A Vulcan crying would have been a classic Trek moment. Also, missing Archer's final speech was also a mistake.
They finally made me miss this show with the last season instead of being dissapointed by it. The last few episodes were especially good and now they end on a sour note.
The franchise started to wane with Voyager but Enterprise had promise. I can't imagine any other series getting two or three seasons to "find itself". Trek fans have been taken for granted for too long.
I didn't want to see the writers new inventions like the Xindi, I wanted the classic aliens like the Vulcans, Klingons and Andorians. These classic alien cultures have yet to be fully explored. I understand that there will be another Trek movie, most likely about Star Fleet and that is fine but a show set entirely on Vulcan or Klingon would be a hit with Trek fans.
I don't blame the cast at all, they were all very good. Bakula was a fine Captain. Linda Park was so under utilized. It's not franchise fatigue, its producer fatigue!
Oh, and killing Kirk in such a lackluster way was a huge mistake as well.
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The real reason they didn't show Archer's big speech? The writers weren't up to the task of creating it, pure and simple.
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Dude spent 10 years as an ensign. (I noticed he still had only one rank pin on for the finale.) And that episode rather sucked.
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That was horrible. It was horrible in the moment, not just in hindsight. Did anyone else find the stops and skips in the program annoying? Or the constant asides between Riker & Troi about Pegasus? Or the lack of continuity between the Terra Prime episode and the finale? Explain to me why it was important to find out where Shran has been for the last 3 years but not to tie up any of the loose ends of what the crew has been doing for the last 5? This last season every episode has been back and forth between Trip & T
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May 13, 2005 11:35:50 PM CDT
This episode took place the same year as the founding of the Fed
by voice o. reason
2161.
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Its been a while, but how did her travelling back in time save Tuvok exactly?
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I know The Pegasus is not a great episode, but it was pretty damn good for Season 7 of TNG, which was decidedly lackluster. My question is, did B&B even watch the damn episode before writing this? Riker had a completey different demeanor and attitude in The Pegasus, here he is all soft, laughing, wasting time on the Holodeck, and then confiding to Troi about the true nature of what happened on the Pegasus???? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!!!!! The whole point of that episode was Riker's frustration with having to keep it secret, and here he tells Troi before Picard? WEAK!!! "But what about the treaty?" Riker acted like a pussy on Enterprise, and I truly fail to see how anything that transpired on the holodeck helped him with his siutation. It was so stupid, and a betrayal of the kind of character Riker was on TNG. He was too smiley and jokey. And the Data dialogue was just dumb, considering by Season 7 he was quite familiar with human colloquialisms. His response to raincheck is something Season 1 Data would say. Hate to nitpick, but this ep was just a continuation of the insulting portrayal of the characters from Nemesis. Where is Piller when you need him? That guy understood Trek.
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I swear as soon as I heard those first few notes I choked up. Then with the Picard/Kirk/Archer voiceover with Jerry Goldsmith's score kicked in at the end, I was sad for all that is Trek. Hell I didnt even like Enterprise and that damn music had me.
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For completely crapping on my favorite show and producing another turd of a final episode. I thought Voyager's finish was as low as you could get for stupid scripts, this one just took the award for complete hackery!
I gave your "valentine" a chance, waited until I saw it to pass judgement and it's as bad as I feard it was. Trip's death had the emotional impact of a rock, wow, could he be more out of character just before he blows himself up? But then it's nearly impossible to recognize Janeway in the final episode of voyager either. And are we to believe that after all Trip and Archer have been thru that that was the best idea Trip could come up with, knock out the captain then blow himself up... yah that was as good as when Roddenbury killed off Yar, yawn... stupid... hackery...
Then to top it all off you had to turn Riker into some sort of indicisive idiot who needs a history lesson... What's wrong, jealous of Ron Moore's success on BSG so you have to crap on one of his best episodes and crap on the character of Riker while you are at it!
To top it all of B&B have to continously whine lately that it isn't their fault that Star Trek has become hackery in space. Guess what guys not buying it, the franchise doesn't need a rest, the two of you need to get lost! You two are in charge, your creative decisions suck and your ability to write interesting stories is severly lacking.
As a long time fan I've gone from standing in line to see the first showing of the movies to waiting 3 weeks before even seeing Nemesis becase as proven when I saw it it sucked. I've gone from recording and not missing one episode of TNG, DS9 giving up on recording episodes of Voyager to not really caring if I missed Enterprise or not. Why because the stories sucked, pure simple suckery and hackery. gee how many times can you rewrite Arena anyways?
Well if there is one good thing about tongiht's final episode, the Star Trek universe is back in the hands of the fans, you two idiots can't crap on it anymore. Do us all a favor and circular file that movie of yours, at this point all it can do is suck, like the last two movies have. -
I had a bad feeling about Star Trek carrying on after Voyager. You have to think, only so many shows succeed on television. Star Trek can't be immune to that. Eventually a cast just wasn't going to mesh, and that's really the heart of the show. Face it, some TOS episodes blew, but you got past it because the cast made it work.
I would also like to never see a Vulcan as a regular cast member again. It pains me everytime I see some actor/actress try to follow in Nimoy's footsteps and blow it everytime. It's a real shame. How about having another alien species in the cast? Worf was an ingenious choice, because it was different.
Anyway, I sort of would like to see this be the end of Star Trek. The original movies rocked because they were epic; 2, 3, and 4 told a moving story that transcended Star Trek and held it's own as an awesome adventure. 6 was great because it was the last hurrah for the awesome original cast. None of the movies after managed to capture that feeling, and I am not sure they ever can.
RIP -
May 14, 2005 12:07:27 AM CDT
UPN 21 in Dallas aired both episodes an hour early without bothe
by thematarife
Nothing better than coming home to the final 2 seconds of Star Trek ever on my Tivo followed by a Mavs game.
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made me laugh. How revoltingly pathetic. All the situations all the various cast members had thought their way out of in the past, and that was the best he could think of? And what was with his manic act right at the beginning? Talk about shoddy writing. Man I hate Berman and Braga. Bastards.
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Those two could've carried their own show. Great characters played by good actors.
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I'm wondering if Paramount actually is, in fact, not interested in producing another movie with B&B at the helm. The studio may have just commissioned the two to write a spec script, which the studio has no real intention to have made, because it's the easiest and cheapest way to run out Paramount's contract with them.
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Now maybe Paramount will drop kick B & B and give Peter David a call. His New Frontier books are better than any Trek series since DS9.
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Dr. Beckett was trapped Quantum Leaping for all eternity, and apparently eventually the project lost track of him. Bellisario was supposedly working a new series with Sci-Fi channel about his daughter building a new leap project and going off after him. Bakula was going to be in the pilot and would show up in various episodes throughout the season as they tracked him. Dean Stockwell was going to reprise his role as Al. Or did you really not want an answer? I really liked Quantum Leap.
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He could only be cured in a Federation facility. By the time they got home the slow way it was too late to save him from brain rot. So Janeway went back in time to bring him back the fast way. Of course, if Janeway hadn't gone back and destroyed the Borg array the Borg would have been all over the Federation and history would have been changed anyway.
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Ya know the man has wanted to Captain his own starship since 1969. They could do worse than to give him his own show. Hell, I'd watch a show about Kirk in retirment solving Matlock like mysteries on his horse ranch. Why don't they get all the surviving cast members from the original series and do a new animated/ cgi series? They could simply continue the original five year mission. I want to see Kirk chasing skirts in space again!
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...rocked!
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I really liked that ending.
I mean with the three incarnations of the ship and the three captains.
It wasn't a bad episode. I think they have have taken fan's advice and Jolene Blalock's concerns and fixed what could have been a huge disaster. But I agree with what was liked in this forum. A nice homage and I was happy to see the set up for that speech (and part of me would have liked to hear that speech... but then, it'd likely have been an hour long. At any rate, this fourth season was a delight and I am satisfied. Tucker's fate and reappearance were nice to see. I agree with the rating. Good job. -
I was so pleased when they set Enterprise ahead so they didn't further mess with the timeline and then...Riker & Troi. Here I thought we'd be seeing the happily married couple on their new ship. No? Commander's log? What could be going on? I think quickly - big decision - still on Enterprise - oh, this must be before Nemesis - and Riker is choosing whether to accept the Captain's chair and ask Deanna to marry him. Sweet. NO??? A season 7 episode???? What the fuck are they thinking? Not everyone is James Marsters - 10 years is noticeable on Frakes and Sirtis, no offense. Though looking back on The Pegasus is much funnier now since that's the episode where Riker is talking about growing a beard because everyone thinks he looked so young. Not really an issue on Enterprise, is it? Why go back? WHY? WHY???
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Wow, worse finale for a Trek show eva! They made damn sure there's no show to salvage. Fuckers.
It's all Berman and Braga's fault. -
May 14, 2005 3:24:35 AM CDT
So, every private conversation on Archer's Enterprise was record
by hanfiredfirst
I mean, talk about invasion of privacy. Makes Watergate look like two tin cans connected with string. It's pretty amazing to think that the Federation actually archived every incident on every starship for centuries, just in case some future Commander needed to revisit a scenario. Wouldn't it be a trifle embarrassing for the crewmembers? I'd like to think they know they're being recorded for future holodeck playback (though it hadn't been invented in Archer's era) but no one mentions it and this fact would tend to interfere with anyone's spontaneity. If a crew member said bad things in private about a Captain could it be used against him later?
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The first episode was MUCH better. The second episode was a typical mess by Present-Braga (man, could he write back in the day!) Give Manny Coto a series for God's sake. p.s. I haven't even read DarthCorleone's post yet, but I have my oen take on hearing Shatner's voice. He made Kirk a TITAN. A swashbuckling adventurer of the highest order. The other captains combined can't carry his jock strap (though Sisko's would be bigger, of course heh heh). So much is made of how poorly Shatner acts, but listen to his voice over the opening credits. So authoritative and yet, almost musical. Ecstacy! And tonight's wrapup just wasn't up to par. p.s. This episode took place DURING the continuity of the TNG series???? Bad call. I guess Troi's mid-life bulge just miraculously disappeared somewhere between these scenes and the ones shot over 10 years ago. I'd still bang her though! Till her black Betazoid eyes turned baby blue! Yes, I would!
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I still say the Captain was the weakest link in this show - second only to Janeway in being obnoxious... It would have been better if Archer had sacrificed himself to save Trip, and Phlox had put Archer's brain in PORTHOS - then a BEAGLE could have addressed the proto-UFP - how's THAT for interspecies cooperation? Archer was so lacking in charisma (and I like Bakula, generally), that I fully expected a shot of Picard lecturing Wesley: "Well, back then starship Captains didn't have any balls..." - let's face it, B&B have tried to do to Trek what Schumacher did to Batman - it's going to take time and a new team to revitalize Trek - I still think a TOS prequel with young actors playing the TOS gang would work, or a far distant incarnation - please folks, if you're going to do a genre show with a following, remember fans are nuts about continuity - don't answer by telling them to screw themselves - Enterprise made many of the claims of TOS a lie and also had some very forgettable cast members - to me the shows have steadily gone down in quality - and if I never hear Data sing Gilbert and Sullivan again, I will be a happy man. By the way - my wife and I named T'pol and Trip's baby "The Littlest MacGuffin" - which brings me to a final pitch for the next Trek: GENE RODDENBERRY'S STAR TREK BABIES! Thanks (cue TOS door "whoosh" here).
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It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! It's over! Finally!
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... but to continue what I wanted to say...
I'm a sloppy and sentimental ST freak. The end of this series made me shrug, say, "Meh...", and go to the kitchen for something alcoholic. No feeling of loss, no regrets, just a feeling that half the writers in Hollywad could easily be replaced by semi-retarded chimps with electo-shock nodes attached to their nuts. Ilove ST, and it needs a rest. -
This should be the next series. Riker as the Captain of the USS Titan- Exploring strange new worlds... with Mrs. Deanna Riker. It was nice seeing TNG again. I could not stop cheering. BRING BACK TNG! BRING IT BACK!!! USS TITAN should be next ST incarnation. We need a sequel to DS9 and TNG. I nominate STAR TREK: TITAN
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May 14, 2005 5:14:35 AM CDT
STAR TREK does not need a rest. STAR TREK needs to become STAR
by sithlord_999
Ok, maybe one year of rest, spent preparing the story arc for ---------------STAR TREK: TITAN
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Can someone explain it to me? Was that storyline ever resolved? I stopped watching ENTERPRISE after the 4th show during the first season (and I still like the first episode- the pilot - that one actually rocked!!)
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Until B&B either retire, die, or completely forfeit every facet of control over the franchise to someone competent. I doubt they could get Frakes or Sirtis to come back to be regulars on another series, and even if they did, it would still suck because B&B would have their claws in it.
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Has a clip of the final scene, with the Kirk, Picard and Archer voiceover made its way onto the internet yet?
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May 14, 2005 8:53:05 AM CDT
As of about 12 hours ago, I thought that "Endgame" was about as
by rufus_t_firefly
But not anymore. The death of cajun engineer guy was for cheap shock value and completely lacked logic and/or gravitas. ( Did Brian Michael Bendis ghost write as the mythical "Third B"?) The storyline was, to put it mildly, clunky. About the only redeeming part was the "rap with Chef" montage. At least *that* part had a few scraps of genuine humanity. Star Trek is dead. Long live Star Trek.
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I think it wasn't really a bad episode. A little on the weak side is all you can say. I really liked seeing Frakes and Sirtis again. A lot of people seemed to miss completely the reason for Tripp's death. For anything great there has to be some sacrifice. That's what Archer's conversation with T'pol was all about. I don't think it needs a 10 year rest or even a rest at all. Manny Coto proved that. I really doubt Paramount will make a new Trek film right away as they have had a change in leadership ( which is what STE's cancellation was mainly about ). The new people don't seem to interested in ST. I guess it will take them awhile to find out how empty the UPN network will have become and how the studio is not making as much money off of the movies and merchandise from ST ( $ 100 a pop for those DVD's ). ST will be back some day soon and I'm willing to bet it'll be without B & B. I think one of the reasons they've made so many goofs is that they themselves want to be rid of Trek and be free to do other things. That's ok with me. When it does return it should be completely new and fresh. I don't think it should be the Riker show or the Sulu show. A new interpretation maybe even as radical as the new BSG. Whatever it is it should retain Roddenberry's values and ideas. ST here's hoping you come back soon!
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I really liked Enterprise, but that finale was the most retarded thing I have ever seen. One of the best characters from the series dies, but more time is spent with Troi and Fat Riker joking around like a couple of socially retarded school children. I am so disgusted. Congratulations Paramount. Not only have you succeeded in getting me to waste my time for 4 years watching your show, but with your complete indifference to its fans, you made me not give a shit. I'm through with Trek. Blalock was absolutely right. That was appalling.
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by Kai_Mah'gra ...."So I guess we'll only be watching the sucky BSG which was loved so much by Sci-Fi and NBC that they are thinking of moving it from Sci-Fi to the network TV if the rerun of Season 1 on NBC and Season 2 on Sci-Fi, is a hit (which it will be). "
My god I still haven't stopped laughing...NBC will never, and I mean NEVER put that show on their primetime schedule. And yes, I know what I'm talking about, I've worked in tv for 20 years. Give me a break. Where do you come up with this stuff Kai?
As for the finale, Trip's death was just unredeemable. What the heck was that? Incredbile waste of time, except for the last 15 seconds or so...
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May 14, 2005 11:09:15 AM CDT
"if Janeway hadn't gone back and destroyed the Borg array the Bo
by voice o. reason
Huh? Its not as if the Borg had invaded the Federation in Janeway's alternate future.
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The next Star Trek project should be a Klingon miniseries. 100% filmed in the Klingon language, with subtitles.
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May 14, 2005 11:52:22 AM CDT
So you can't get a blowjob in the privacy of your quarters witho
by i dunno
Or worse, assume the identity of the blowee (or blower, whatever floats your boat)? None of that shit made any sense.
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I was so pissed. And I HATE those damned FCC blackouts that don't allow me to simply watch the show on a WORKING CHANNEL.
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If you're not watching Star Trek, then why on earth do you care whether its being broadcast or not?
Are you just some fucking dog in the manger. In ten years, I could be dead. Hell, we could all be dead. BSG did not become better because it wasn't on the air. It became better because they found some good writers. -
The franchise doesn't need a break. There are dozens if not hundreds of stories out there in the books alone. They could do Kirk's early days, more TOS era stories, (either with new actors playing the roles of Kirk and
Spock, or another ship in the same period.) Post-Kirk 23rd Century, (essentially Capt Sulu, but Takei is too old to play the part), post TNG, Riker on Titan, early Days of the Federation (between Enterprise and TOS), far far in the future. The could do a Federation show set in any period, or a Star Fleet academy show set in any period.They could do a MACO show, or something that is more espionage oriented, a small "scout" ship or something like that. Its a big universe, there is a lot they can do. They just need good writers and they need to get rid of B&B because they really have no interest in it any more. But they'd rather kill it than turn it over to other people -
May 14, 2005 2:44:21 PM CDT
Well first, there's no way anyone's going to accept anyone else
by i dunno
A Sulu or Riker show would be just the same "starship travels through the galaxy and solves some problem of the week" that we've seen with every other show other than DS9. DS9 had the only really original concept. First it was a political story, then sort of a melodrama, then an all out war story. Which is why in many ways it was the best series, even if it didn't have the best characters. If they can re-create that kind of originality then they might have a chance but the standard TOS/TNG thing has nothing left in it, no matter how many times you change captains. I vote for a Section (shit, what's the number, 31?) show. Illegal covert black ops. Star Trek meets Alias. It would never be commercially successful but it would kick ass.
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Managed to watch the final episodes ofEnterprise last night, and found it had it's moments.
Loved seeing the Enterprise-D again.
Unfortunatly I missed the last ten minutes.
The UPN station I was watching decided to turn to "Maury" ("are your the father of my baby was the theme") I thought it would be corrected a few minyes later, but no.
The only saving grace it hey replay "enterprise" on Sunday.
Was anybody else cut off last night? -
I feel very sad about Star Trek. Enterprise was a golden opportunity wasted.
It needs talented writers creating cutting edge Science Fiction. Not jobbing writers. Take a break. Throw that Trek Lore rule book out into the trash. It's not the 60's, or the 80s/90's. When I read works by people like - like Ian M Banks ('The Use of Weapons', 'Inversions' etc)- damn there's scores of writers who have constantly redefined the genre.
Gene Rodenberry wanted a Utopian society - it was sexy and had to fight for survival but no one had to pee and no one needed money. Slowly that changed apart from the toilet situation (no I'm stopping this - I'm going off track ;-)).
Now Trek has got stuck in the 90s. Yes I know there's been reflections of 9/11 and Iraq. But those are event's they do not reflect what we as a society are like now. That's what Trek did really well. It made us think about our culture and brought in exciting situations.
I know people have suggested Star Fleet Academy and those dumb arse Time cops. Bollocks. I would suggest that Paramount through it open to writers to submit suggestions. Bollocks to studio execs thinking about the UPN network. There's a whole world out there. If you want ratings get the product. Just stick to creating honest work.
A word on Enterprise. The cast were a good traditional selection. There were a couple of very exciting characters who were played excellently. I won't say who. Not Vulcan (sorry). oh and poor Hoshi - given a chance and then taken away. No, no, there were some magic moments.
The producers. What dare I say. They need a holiday. They need support and they need to give the reins to a new team. Stand back and let them go. Not just young new hopefuls. Get a mix of writers young and old. Get the pros mixing with rookies to bounce ideas. Star Trek like Star Wars should be a frame-work for exciting family drama. Not a back water filler for the schedules.
One last thing perhaps Star Trek belongs to the people who want to dress up and go to conventions. No disrespect as they watch it. But it's your job to not to bury it as something that's nostalgic and kitsch.
Get it real sexy and challenging. Beat Battlestar Galactica. That's raw but headless. It won't last as long as the mighty Trek. -
god - what is this season 1?
yeah I felt nothing about the deaths and the chessy way it was setup. otal crap - thanks berman abd braga you prove once again why the trek has failed - you. -
Once again the general feeling si they need to step back.
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no. No. NO. NO!
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I guess that it is fitting that a show that was so meaningless, would have such a meaningless ending.
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After feeling good about most of this season's episodes, it was nice of them to go out of their way to make sure I won't miss Trek for a long while.
That may have been the worst piece of crap in the history of all Star Treks. As I watched it, I could feel the raw contempt the author had for all of us. Appalling doesn't really cover it adequately.
The only mercy is that we weren't treated to what would surely have been an ineptly written climactic speech by Archer.
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May 14, 2005 6:05:19 PM CDT
The death of Trip sort of felt like a cheezy ripoff of the death
by hanfiredfirst
They both basically involve a major character going against orders in the midst of a crisis to sneak into some machinery and fiddle with some stuff in order to prevent disaster, though sacrificing himself in the process. In Spock's case, he died preventing an explosion, where Trip actually set off an explosion to save the ship. Both deaths were kind of clunky and unnecessary.
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Did it never occur to you that you might actually *be* FutureGuy? In a causal loop? Could be worse -- I'm 90% certain I'm a holodeck recreation of me. Hopefully Data will be along to sort things out soon.
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What Start Trek needs, more than anything else, is to dump B & B into a Klingon outhouse & give some one like J. Michael Straczynski a whack at it. For the record I'll miss seeing Linda Park & wish her well. And Porthos. But I hope B & B burn in hell, if not for the limp weenie drama that was Voyager, then certainly for murdering the francise outright, & leaving a decent cast, nice looking ship & all that jazz twisting in the breeze. What a sad end to a francise that deserved better.
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Spock's death was in a totally different field than Trip's. Spock's death was the culmination of a disastrous encounter with a deadly foe; his death was necessary to secure warp speed (not to stop an explosion) for the ship by repairing the warp drive in a radiation-filled work section. Trip's death was the culmination of a face-off with a retarded group of stupid-looking aliens who's appearance was completely random and out-of-the-blue. Trip then, despite all his experience and supposed cleverness, then suddenly goes manic, has the aliens pistol-whip the captain, and then lures them into an obvious (and I mean, c'mon, who didn't see this coming?) trap that had no merit, and sacrificed himself in one of the most pathetic moments in Star Trek -- or television -- history concerning a major character. It was so contrived that I was only sad because I knew that I was witnessing the end of Star Trek.
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None of those aliens even had a fake chest! Damn them!
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May 14, 2005 8:58:12 PM CDT
Funny how they didn't show us Archer's speech -- it was like Rik
by jim jam bongs
I like the idea of the next Trek show taking up the FutureGuy mystery. Ideally, the next show will be out at least 5 years from now, will be produced and created by Manny Coto, and set in the 24th century. In the next show, they should NOT do any time travel BS, EXCEPT for a special two-parter where they reveal that one of the show's characters is FutureGuy. (We know that time travel is commonplace in the 25th century, and that FG came from a century prior to Daniels' time period but after Archer's.)
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No one gives a shit about him except Enterprise fans...all five of 'em. The last thing they need to do is make a 'fresh new' ST series and base it off a concept from the worst series to date. This series and all aspects of it need to be erased from Trek-lore forever. I was sort of disappointed that the whole 'holo-drama' rumor didn't pan out; that way we could disregard Archer and the gang entirely.
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To reduce the Enterprise crew to a crappy holodeck program was a crime. MAybe it woudl have been ok for a regular episode but for the series finally that is shit. Berman and Braga just wanted to bring out some of TNG characters back to get better ratings. This is exactly why Enterprise was doomed from the beginning. B&B have given the death blow to the Trek franchise. And now it will take time and some creative genius to bring the franchise back to life. Jolene Blalock was right to bitch about this episode it was a ripoff to the Enterprise crew they deserved a better send off than this. And what about the romance between Trip and T'Pol then did a half ass job addressing that. Its really unfair to the cast and I feel really bad for them. Its really a sad way for the frenchise to go out. First Nemsis now this, bring on BSG, hopefully it will not suffer the same fate. -
Does anybody else got the feeling Blalock wasn't complaining so much about the TNG invasion, but the short shift given to T'Pol and Trip. "Gee, we broke up 6 years ago for reasons unknown, so let's have one of us die a completely inane, pointless death while the other smells a towel." WTF? It's sad when there was more emotional reasonance over the death of a baby that'd been around for two days as opposed to a major character. I wouldn't be surprised Trip's bawling over the baby was really because the actor had just read the script for the finale. I'm not a big fan of the Stevens', some of their books are pretty bad, but they sure as hell can write better than the ass-monkey's in charge. Sad.
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May 14, 2005 10:15:51 PM CDT
"STAR TREK does not need a rest. STAR TREK needs to become STAR
by voice o. reason
Because, you know, Frakes is such a wonderful actor with the ability to carry a series. Given the reaction to this week's episode, the fans are definitely clamouring for more Will Riker. Spare me.
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He was decent in TNG; sometimes even pretty good. I actually liked him in First Contact, it's the shitty script for this finale that made him seem stale and wishy-washy, which as usual points the blame squarely and B&B.
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May 14, 2005 10:50:13 PM CDT
Obviously shouldn't have used an apostrophe with Frakes' name in
by jedistryker
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....The uber-tool that is Rick Berman has stated that he wants to do ANOTHER prequal series (Cause, you know, the first one did SOOOOO well.), this time setting in just 30 or so years after the events of First Contact. If theres a just and loving God, Paramount will flay the bastard the minute he approaches them with this shite, ala Joel Shumacher, or at least shoot him in the testical with an air rifle.
Scew it, I'll get my genre fix off of SG-1 and Galactica Redux. Maybe Trek needs to take a break, if for no other reason than to remove the cancerous mass that is slowly atrophing it. -
If people want to watch BSG, God bless them. Just because I don't watch it doesn't mean I think it should be banned from the airways for ten years. To each his own. Just give me more Trek.
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Please tell me you're shiting me! What the fuck would they do? Tonk along at warp 1.5 between Vulcan and Earth while they bitch that the Vulcan's won't let them do anything?
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...but thats what Ricky wants to push. I'm hoping someone clocks him upside the head with a bag of hot nickles before he can remind the studio exec's about the photos he has of them having sex with a chimp, cause there's no other way this guys been able to keep the stranglehold he's had on this franchise for this long.
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...but its better than some half-assed, repackaged, no-respect-for-the-fans pile of monkey crunk that B&B would try to pawn off on us, as they have the last 8-10 years.
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There's no way anyone's going to go for that. It boggles my mind -- it's literally boggled!! -- that he would even think that's a good idea. What the fuck is wrong with him? Forget screwing over the fans...that's just a shitty idea! There's no way you can justify that premise, no spin you could put on it that would make it interesting in the least. Who would the star be? Get James Cromwell back to play Cochrane? Who the fuck wants to see that? And you know that he's thinking "A team goes back to the past from the TNG era to ensure that things go the right way" or something like that. I hate those bastards!
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Damn enter key, sorry about that. But, yah, Ferengi. Sitting at the bar. RIP Trek.
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www.newvoyages.com - Fan produced stuff I guess, allowed by Paramount because it's offered for free. First episode had 22 million downloads apparently ...
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Why a show with Riker? Someone pointed out that he may not be the 'greatest' actor with 'the ability to carry a show'. Well, that may or may not be true, but from MANY posts on this talkback, there are a LOT of people who were very happy seeing RIKER and TROI in TNG uniforms again. Me too. I know that Riker and Troi paled next to Picard, Data, Worf, even Geordi, but they gleamed like gods sent from the Olympus next to the lame characters of the last two TREK series. Would Riker and Troi be able to carry a show? Let me put it this way. How old was Picard in the first season of TNG? 40? 45? Imagine (in an alternate reality) that 18 years before TNG, say, 1970, we had a TREK show, a really good one, TNG caliber (seasons 3-5), which featured a Picard in his mid-to-late 20's as second-in-command of whatever ship he served as commander. He, and all his crew, would look up and respect to
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I will admit that I haven't been a regular viewer of "Enterprise" but I had been pleasently surprised by some of this season's episodes.I enjoyed seeing Brent Spiner's episodes and I rea;;y enjoyed "In a mirror,darkly">I feel like this season they really started to embrace the fact that they were a prequel to Star Trek.I think "These are the voyages..." would have been great as just a regular episode,but to have it be the series finale was completely disrespectful to the cast of Enterprise.It played more like an episode of TNG,and it made the cast of Enterprise guest stars on their own show.While I don't agree with Joline Blalock that it was "apalling",I can definitely see where it would leave a bad taste in their mouths.
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I read Troi's words (
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On second thought, though better than the 60's, the reality of 90's and 00's America STILL doesn't come anywhere close to matching Roddenberry's vision. So casting decisions by showrunners will reflect that. Okay, it all makes sense now. (Not that it makes it right, though. Just another example of Berman and Braga's lack of vision.)
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We need Roddenberry's sensibility more than ever right now. The way the world and it's governments have been acting ( including the U. S. ) is apalling. Unfortunately we're in a time when those same governments don't promote that kind of thinking. Fortunately that will not last forever. All bad things must end also.
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As I've said many times before I think it was ST that gave us ( those of us who like SF ) a golden age of programing on TV for the last 18 years. That being said I'm afraid of what the future without it might bring. I remember well the years between 69 and 79 or even 87. They were pretty bad as far as SF went on TV. When we did have SF shows they were stupid. I'm sure I don't need to remind you. Here's hoping you guys who said we don't need ST anymore are right and I'm wrong. Otherwise....Welcome to the wasteland.....
Let's hope ST returns in a new and fresh form. And soon! -
May 15, 2005 11:22:37 AM CDT
"Every single person sitting in the section around them -- about
by themikejonas
That's because most of those people were Trek production staff--a related, but different, though perhaps more immediately relevant issue.
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... to a pathetic series. Instead of going out with a bang (Voyager, horrible as it was at least had that luxury), it was like the series was a prison snitch who got shivved, anally raped post-motem, then skull fucked, decapitated, then the neck hole of it's headless corpse used as a urinal by the entire cellblock. Christ I hope this entire franchise stays dead!
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Watcha' going to do? Sigh!
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...that's exactly what I was going to post. A disrespectful episode. A desperate attempt to please the naysayers out there, in my opinion. I'm more pissed off about it the more I think about it. I don't blame Blalock for using the word appalling at all. Seems pretty spot-on. And the lame attempt at Stephen King's tell-the-audience-this-guy's-gonna-die suspense technique just sucked sucked sucked. These are the Voyages was a punch in the face to a show I've loved since the beginning, including the original version of the theme.
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May 15, 2005 2:22:49 PM CDT
"I know that Riker and Troi paled next to Picard, Data, Worf, ev
by voice o. reason
I'd argue that not only are you grasping at straws by going for the "atl east its better than..." argument, but also that there were several characters on both Voyager and Enterprise who were infinitely more interesting than Riker (Voyager's Doctor, Trip Tucker, Phlox, and T'Pol all spring to mind) . Frakes belongs BEHIND the camera. He's actually a good director. And I don'ty see many people that were glad to see Riker and Troi again. Mostly it was people bitching about their appearance. STAR TREK neds to stop living in the past and move forward . Trying to recreate TNG isn't the right call.
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Frakes always did a nice job as Riker and is one of my favorite characters from all the series. Pretty much he is in the same group for me as Kirk , Mccoy , Scotty , Spock , Picard , Data , Trip , Archer , T'pol , Phlox and the Doctor from voyager. The rest of the main characters including Worf , Sisko , O'Brien , Major Kira and the rest are on the next level down..anyway you can't blame Riker for poor writing and the out and out stupidity of that final episode.I mean this production crew got so sloppy that when they merged in Riker and Troi into that 10 foward scene from a Next Gen episode way back when they left in the original Riker in the shot as well instead of removing him so there wasn't 2 of him in the scene. Just par for the course , I love Enterprise but the franchise needs a new look and a new vision..
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The 10 foward scene I am talking about is from the beginning of These are the Voyages when there are 2 Rikers..just a clarification..
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Why did they included Next Generation ? So freaking lame. Wheeeww..so what if Braga wanted to try a "new" perspective on an important event..whoopie. Damn....i want a finale that actually has substance, not some lame viewing of the birth of the federation. Why not have Archer watching that damn poker game in the end of "All Good Things...."? Because it wouldnt make sense, just like this damn finale.
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Braga you just had to work in a reference to the BBC SCI-FI show "Blake's 7", with the Trek emblem on its side. Weak dude, weak. Ok, you may go back to ordering your hot girlfriend to give you a blowjob while you laugh at the "losers" on the cable broadcast of "Trekkies 2." I guess those people were right ten years ago when they called you Satan.--m
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But damned if T'Pol's ass wasn't worth looking at in last act of this episode. --- My question is how did the holodeck have access to replay every private moment on the Enterprise; a ship from 200 years ago that didn't have holodeck recording technology? Was that a simulation based on historical data? What's the deal?
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Young actors playing TOS crew? Your wish is the internet's command: http://www.newvoyages.com/ --- And no, this isn't lame fan flick stuff, either. Gene Roddenberry's son is the executive producer. It's good stuff. Check it out.
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There aren't "two Rikers" -- we see an establishing shot that shows Riker and Troi talking, and then zoom into that shot.
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The last thing we need is to have Trek go back in time again. The limitations in ideas by going backwards was VERY apparent to me and I hope to others. I hope they do a DS9 movie eventually or something WORTH watching. If they are going to do trek from here out it MUST be in the continuing time line or just skip ahead another generation again. No other ideas even come close. Or do the old Section 31 or Star Trek Academy, or hell even do alternate universe. ANYTHING is better then another damn ship. Or hell bring back the NG crew ONE more time with freaking Q!!! let him bring data back or somethng.....bah, no one here listens anyway
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May 16, 2005 1:44:03 PM CDT
The episode seemed like a mish-mash of two or three episodes.
by big jim
I have a feeling the whole TNG/Enterprise cross-over was originally just the idea for the season finale. Then when they found out they had been cancelled they added the obvious series-ending bit of the signing of the Federation treaty. The Shran sub-plot was probably one they had been kicking around as a way to get Coombs back on in a future episode. And we all know they originally wanted Shatner to guest-star as Chef. That bit about the crew talking to Chef was most likely poached from the aborted Shatner-as-Chef episode. I am guessing it would have revolved around Trip's birthday and that's why they were all talking about him. But the thing that gets me the most (aside from the crappy opening song [fuck, how could anyone have thought that was a good idea??]) is the lazy writing on this show. The Plot-Point aliens manage to get aboard Enterprise, someone announces "Intruder Alert" but only Trip and Archer encounter them. WTF! Where the fuck was that fucker Reed and his fucking security crew?? Where the fuck where the fucking MACOs??? Trip decides to blow himself up in the hopes that he also takes out the intruders? Why not just stall for time until that fucker Reed and his fucking security crew show up with the fucking MACOs??? Truly, a half-assed attempt to bring closer to this half-assed series. And the episode, like the series, failed. But maybe that is fitting.
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I still say a three year break to re-think is a very good idea. But there needs a whole new team. This thread has had a few ideas but I wonder if Harry could persuade Paramount to run a competition or survey as to what we the viewers would liek to possibly see. They may just ignor it or maybee - a few of us actually come up with something better than the stuff B&B have done.
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I know traditionally Paramount ignores all submissions to Star Trek. Everything goes in the bin. I think only Manny Coto (sp?) who was a fan got anywhere (I'm sure someone will correct me). Even then I'm sure it was not that simple. Maybe things have changed too much for the studios and the networks that they can't make anything that people really want? Dr Who came back because the BBC actually listened to what people were saying. It was a long wait and it took years of support from fans world-wide. However, I think it was worth it. I love this new Doctor Who. So I hope that the same can be done to make Star Trek new and exciting. I've started watching TNG again and I love it. Most of us have said bring it back. Why? Story? Characters? Action? What? Did it have something to do with the fact that we were hungry for it, and they gave us meaty spoonfuls of Trek goodness. You bet. Now I'm getting hungry... I'll wait and maybe think about it myself. Anyone care to join me????
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"Terra Prime" was a phenomenal episode, and should have been the send-off for the series. Conversely, "These Are the Voyages" was a stinking, fetid, moldering piece of offal that should have been hurled down the incinerator shaft. Where to begin? For starters, the characters are horribly written. None of them act like the people we've come to know over the past season, let alone the past four years. Instead, they clatter about the set like wind-up toys, spouting meaningless dialogue and boring aphorisms. The treatment they receive cements Berman and Braga's reputation as the WORST writers on TV and the very reason why the "Star Trek" franchise is dead in the water. Secondly, the plot, such as it is, is beyond dull. Archer is diverted from heading to the Federation's inception for what? To engage in a rescue mission that would have felt old-hat in Season 3 of the original series? It's a boring, stupid and hackneyed plot that resembles the worst of lazy, phoned-in writing. Of course, when you're dealing with Berman and Braga, lazy, phoned-in writing is the specialite de la maison! Then we have the issue of Trip's death, probably the most meaningless and uninvolving death of a character since Kes's "destabilization" storyline. Not only does Trip die in a manner completely unbefitting his character, after it happens, no one seems to care! There's not one shred of emotion or even any real acknowledgement that a crewmember, Archer's oldest friend and the one-time love of T'Pol's life has just died. It's like, "Trip's dead. Bummer. Oh well, I've got a speech to give." But perhaps what's most insulting is the fact that Trip, the loyal engineer, the man who singlehandedly climbed between TWO moving starships, meets his end by blowing up a bunch of redshirt space jabronis who would have been out of place in an episode of "Jason of Star Command." It's sad, demoralizing and, again, LAZY. Berman and Braga have complained a lot recently at the accolades Manny Coto was receiving for his handling of the series. Berman was even quoted as saying something like "This isn't the Manny Coto show." Well, having this mishmash air immediately after another golden Coto installment proves that it WAS the Manny Coto show and Berman and Braga weren't fit to get him coffee. These two clowns inherited a franchise and they pissed it away and turned it into a punchline.
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Oops. My first post, and I fucked it up. Okay, here's my yammeringly partial list of what B&B did wrong, could/should have done, etc... first, VOYAGER'S END, KIRK'S DEATH, ENTERPRISE'S END, TRIP'S DEATH, YAR'S DEATH were simply throw-aways. It was bad enough that Janeway came from the future to help everyone get home (therefore Voyager not really 'earning' their way home), then after that nice epilogue from DS9, Voyager almost literally runs into their own closing credits! BOOM! THE END! I never understood why B&B didn't ever come up with 3-episode 'mini-movies' with the original crew, showing them during sweeps weeks... something to build up some much needed continuity?!? Damn, that's built-in DVD sales, repackaging those together without commercials. It makes me so sad that the finer Enterprise scripts seem to be born out of 'going all out', now that it's been cancelled. Whoever posted earlier saying that T'Pol should have been with Trip during his death is right! Even when they
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Astronoto="I didn't want to see the writers new inventions like the Xindi, I wanted the classic aliens like the Vulcans, Klingons and Andorians".Yep,Didn't need future guy either.They should've been moving it along quicker with those races getting accquainted with each other over 2 seasons to come together in a fleet to deal with the Xindi and taken it from there.Saying that I enjoyed a few episodes over the seasons.The actors were ok,Phlox was a laugh,the characters were there but they didn't use them.The theme tune killed this(always FFW),Uniforms were crap too,No link to to The 60's version. Voyager=Waste of time(Kazon,Borg children etc),I enjoyed a few episodes over the years but really they should've got home at the end of the first season with technology that they got on the way.They could of had a role in advancing the federation to a point that created friction and in turn helped create the DS9 war storyline and taken it from there.Next Star Trek=Far future exploration please.No "I want to understand the alien culture,Worf is royalty but serves on a ship,getting to know my child Alexander,Tuvok doesn't like Neelix's pie(Neelix,Tediousix),Hoshi lives in a castle/has a holiday fling,They go mountain climbing(geez when Picard tried to have a holiday he still stayed on board shooting people with arrows :>),grand noogy is coming to visit,same for trois mum,WW2 themed episodes,no holodeck lets have the actors do something wacky this week,the village folk on there holodeck world melodrama stuff ever again.Forget the hardcore fans their money will always be there.The rest of us wanted special effects,stuff with foundation aliens(punch up's,rudeness sarcasm etc),a bit of science and thought provoking stuff thrown in,designs and uniforms and general space hi-jinks every week with plenty linking to Kirks future.They messed up Star trek,unbelievable.What a waste.I'll see it through to the end =>.
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