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STAR TREK Slams ShutThe Mirror Universe!!
I am – Hercules!!
The Mirror Universe was introduced early in Star Trek’s second season, with the episode “Mirror, Mirror” (Oct. 6, 1967). Bones could not explain how Spock could sport facial hair even as the stain on his lab table remained intact.
“Star Trek: Deep Space Nine” (the best of all the “Trek” series) picked up the Mirror Saga in its own second season. There were a total of five “DS9” installments dealing with a universe that would produce a bearded Spock: “Crossover” (2.23), “Through The Looking Glass” (3.19), “Shattered Mirror” (4.20) “Resurrection” (6.8) and “The Emperor’s New Cloak” (7.12). (Note please that “The Next Generation” and “Voyager” could never be bothered.)
This Friday and next Friday bring back the Mirror Universe saga for the last time before The Big Secret Reboot.
The best news, perhaps, is that Mike Sussman, who wrote fan-favorite “Twilight” (aka “Archer Goes All Memento”) had a big hand in this final, two-part Mirror Universe saga.
Once this final, two-part Mirror Universe saga concludes, only three Star Trek episodes remain.
8 p.m. Friday. UPN.
Relive the prior Mirror Universe installments:
Star Trek 2.x
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine 2.x
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine 3.x
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine 4.x
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine 6.x
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine 7.x
Looking for bumper stickers, plush toys and girls’ underwear covered with cute cartoon double-amputees? Visit The Herc Store!
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Last weeks's episode of Enterprise was the only one that I actually turned off about half way through. I've been looking forward to this one though. Let's see how long it'll take on this board for people to start downtalking Enterprise and saying that the show sucks and these Mirror eps will be horrible before they've even seen them. Seems like the norm here...
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I think Deep Space Nine was right up there with The Next Generation. Enterprise was getting a lot better. Voyager was a steaming turd.
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fuck them right up their bungholes for killing this beloved franchise. That's right - I said beloved.....muahahahahahahhaha.
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At it's best, DS9 was the greatest stroytelling on TV. Enterprise was just getting watchable... hopefully they get Ira Behr back to ST for the next series.
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What, that craptastic Star Trek XI treatment for the Romulan War with no Enterprise or Star Trek characters?
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...though it came off too "serious." I felt it should have leaned more to comedy. I was going back and forth from laughing to slightly annoyed. The highlight, however, was in the last five minutes when T'Pol lays a big juicy one on Tucker. I went "YAH!!!" and then thought about it... Why the hell isn't this series as funny as the original star trek... dammit, they could have told a lot of fun stories in this series! In the making of Enterprise, Bakula was goofing off on the captain's chair and having a blast and I couldn't wait to see him as Captain. And then they write him as almost having a stick up his butt. THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD FUN WITH THIS SERIES!!! The Xindi plot stagnated like the search for Bin Laden and got boring and almost futile. COMEDY... MORE COMEDY. Do one serious episode, then an adventure episode, then a comedy... give us great fun and variety... and now I am rambling. AAHHHHHHHHHHH! Dammit.
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easily the worst trek series.
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it wasn't until the reruns years later when I discovered the last season and went "hey, they had battles??? cool!" Then, yesterday, I watched an episode of Voyager and after five minutes of them rambling about something or other I went "holy crap, this is a total nerdfest. I have no idea what these people are talking about and I don't think the cast knows either." I think it is official... I am no trekkie.
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I'm sorry but TNG is by far the best trek series. Trek would be nowhere near the level of popularity it has gotten without TNG. Without TNG it would be barely on par with Battlestar Galactica, not equal to Star Wars like it is now, in terms of populatiry. DS9 was definitely way better than Voyager though.
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They had like 20 regualr/recurring characters towards the end...and all of them were fantastic. Okay, except Jake Sisko.
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The greatness of the original series was the concept itself -- send a group of characters off into an unknown universe & let them to to the planet or spaceship of the week. The fact that the characters were appealing, the cast competent, and the writing could occasionally be superb, made it work well. The Next Generation stuck with the same great formula -- the Enterprize could go anywhere & see anything & anyone. While except for one actor's shrill performance in the first season of Deep Space 9 spoiled it horribly, DS9's greatest flaw was that the basic concept meant the universe had to come to them... it was as stage stuck as a hospital show. Voyager put them back in space, but they had to travel one way only... wild gyrations had to occur to revisit any alien race. The fact that the scripts were shudderingly bad & the acting not much better was nearly the death of ST. Enterprize could have been good -- reasonable acting, hunks & babes, a concept which once again allowed them to go out & explore (yay!), but the season-long story arc & reliance on weird time travel killed what could have been much better fare. -- -- oh, and, yeah, bubcus is right... humor would have helped, a lot. DS9 fails to be the best of the series because the concept sucked bad... even the war the final season kept them bound to one miserable alien enemy... dorky dorky dorky dorky dorky dorky dorky...
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You know, I think the next series SHOULD be something like "ARCHIVES OF THE FEDERATION" where they show a different crew and ship every few weeks. There could be some neat storytelling with that. Bring in Sulu and the Excelsior, have a show about Janeway's next job, an after DS9 episode, etc.... ALSO, with all this talk about favorite treks... I don't have a favorite series, I have favorite episodes: FROM CLASSIC STAR TREK: THE DOOMSDAY DEVICE. From TNG, it'd be the two part Locutus Episode and ALL GOOD THINGS (the last episode). I loved the Tribble episode in DS9, and I loved the Time Machine Doomsday Ship in Voyager (another two parter as I recall). Those were good times.
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"go to" not "to to", and Enterprise, no z... sorry... I ought to learn to type with more than 1 finger, I suppose.
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Apr 22, 2005 1:12:54 AM CDT
Let's not forget that Ron Moore was a HUGE reason DS9 was so goo
by heckles
That's evident with his work on Battlestar Gallactica. And the franchise doesn't need to be put on hiatus, Rick Berman does. It baffles me that Voyager can get 7 seasons but Enterprise barely squeaked out a fourth. I guess if Archer and crew would have bumped into 'Tuvix' or Q about six times it would have gotten another 20 episode order. Man, did Voyager smoke rope.
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DS9 was my favorite of the Trek series. It started slowly, but turned it around and got really good. Sounds like another poor, unfortunate show making it's demise right now... and Voyager sucked.
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Despite Insurrection, which isn't that bad compared to Nemesis, which is the biggest steaming pile of shit ever to grace this earth. DS9 comes close because of the last 4-5 seasons (I can't remember when it started getting really good, but the first 2-3 were definitely mediocre at best). Some aspects of Voyager were ok, like Tom Paris was cool, and Bel'anna or however it's spelled, and Ensign Kim, and Q is always cool, and some Barclay eps, and before they emasculated the Borg and Species 8472, those were cool. And the Hirogen, and that one Nazi/Hirogen two-parter (cliff-hanger? can't remember). But that's about it. And of course, Rick Berman is pure evil. Any series without Miles O'Brien is doomed to failure. The "Legends" show would rock the house down. So many fucking possibilities, it's disgusting.
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I mean, I guess one could argue that the first couple TNG seasons were bad, but you'd be wrong (sure they looked campy, but they were just getting into the zone, it still had some of the best writing and acting of literally, and don't take this lightly, all time). The whole TNG was just genius.
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Apr 22, 2005 2:36:56 AM CDT
I feel DS9 is by far the best - tied with TOS at any rate - with
by noriko takaya
I'm glad they'll be erasing it from cannon, it sucked so bad on so many levels. And they should just 86 the idea of a new movie as well: as long as The Disaster Twins are involved it's likely doomed to box office failure. *Sigh.* Well, at least Star Wars will end on a high note - but would it be so hard to have Trek to the same? It deserves as much.
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Apr 22, 2005 2:54:10 AM CDT
I'm surprised DS9 had so many Mirror Universe episodes -- it act
by prof. pop-cult
Instead of 5 Mirror Universe episodes on DS9, I would have preferred it if Voyager had done one and TNG too. It should have been a tradition for every Trek show to do at least one Mirror Universe episode.
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Its been made clear time and again everything on Enterprise is IN the normal ST universe. It is only the last episode that takes place on the holodeck and only as a "looking back on" of the past by Riker, and not a its been Rikers story all along.
JESUS for someone good at spoilers you have droped the ball repeatedly on this. -
And just like that, Herc's credibility has left the building...
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Sure, he liked The Tick, but the rest of his picks are those of the "14 year old girl" variety. ANYWAY, I certainly hope the end lets me think of "Enterprise" as never having happened. I'd love to see it struck from canon completely.
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have you seen this? Because I haven't read anything that supports your conclusions. What I have read is that they look back on what happened for some reason. Not that this was a fictional recreation or that they may have reshaped the actual events.
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Apr 22, 2005 8:30:18 AM CDT
I always HATED those stupid mirror universe episodes - flogging
by scrumdiddly
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Apr 22, 2005 8:58:06 AM CDT
Next Gen was the best because it did most of the heavy lifting a
by big bad clone
Star Trek was great cheese that got much better after Wrath of Khan. Next Gen started ehh but turned that shit around and kicked ass. DS9 was fairly good but it was standing on the shoulders of TNG. Then Voyager takes their big budget and squeezes out crappy ep after crappy ep. TNG did the most with what it had and it came out with some damn good stuff.
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All the Trek series to date have taken around 3 seasons to really get on their feet and start running. I've been watching re-runs of TNG's first couple of seasons, recently, and, honestly, they were awful. TNG really kicked in when it did the Best of Both Worlds two parter. I really liked DS9, didn't hate Voyager by any stretch of the imagination and I was starting to get to like Enterprise. Like they say, all good things ...
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I was not referencing the finale with Riker and Troi, but rather the NEXT series after "Enterprise." I'm guessing that Paramount is about to stage a "Crisis on Infinite Federations," which would toss all the established continuity and start a new Star Trek universe. I just hope they get the Reeves-Stevenses to mastermind it.
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Couldn't agree more... and an official THANKS for finally letting new people register and participate in the TALKBACK...
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Apr 22, 2005 10:15:10 AM CDT
Here's where the rumor that Riker could be FutureGuy comes from.
by jim jam bongs
"Throughout the eight days of shooting, Frakes was at various points dressed in a TNG-era uniform; as an NX-01 crewman; as a MACO; and ... as one other person who perhaps should remain a surprise..." http://trekweb.com/stories.php?aid=4231c03730d59
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Apr 22, 2005 10:16:32 AM CDT
So in summary, it looks like Riker could either play FutureGuy o
by jim jam bongs
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Worse, it took itself too seriously. Archer does seem like he has a giant pickle up his poop-chute. He should have been more relaxed and an eager adventurer. Basically, he should have been more like Kirk, less like Janeway. And I have said it before, and I will say it again: That song used for the opening credits is symbolic of what is wrong with this show. Listen to all the Trek themes. The original is cool, NG is a variation composed by the great Jerry Goldsmith, DS9 is a beautiful piece of music, as is Jerry Goldsmith's Voyageur theme (probably the best of the bunch). The themes were getting progressively better. And all set the right tone for their respective shows. Then we come to Enterprise with its Michael Bolton-esque pop song. WTF???? Either B&B were looking for extra dough from a desired Top-40 hit or they wanted to distance themselves from the series they were making a living from. Probably both. It seems they wanted to make their own Trek, different and distinct from what has come before. That's fine if done right, but they did more wrong than right. They traded on the Trek name and took what they could but were at the same time disrespectful to the legacy of what came before. Bad decisions and poor execution a failed series make.
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... was the best thing about Star Trek since the original.
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Apr 22, 2005 10:35:23 AM CDT
Tonight there's going to be a new opening sequence which will pr
by jim jam bongs
Kind of pathetic that one of the highlights of this series will be this dark mirror universe credit opening.
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TOS...the reason for it all. TNG...the best written/produced. DS9...Houston, we have a problem. VOY...Uh-Oh. ENT...coulda been a contender. Here's my guide to the movie franchise...Odd numbers=avoid, Even numbers=Great, multiples of 5=avoid like the plague. The Only exception to the rule=STIII, which rules.
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TOS #1
TNG #2
DS9 STV and Enterprise all tie for dead fucking last and erased from my memory -
Herc's cred has left the building.
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Apr 22, 2005 11:15:29 AM CDT
The scariest thing about the Enterprise finale is the B & B writ
by performingmonkey
Enterprise has generally been shit. There's no getting away from this fact. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just suffering from a serious case of extreme denial (due to the fact that they've put in too many hours of watching it - wanting, praying their precious Trek series to be great - to believe what a steaming lump of pig shit it really is). I'm so glad it's been silenced forever, but I wish someone had the balls to wipe it from Trek canon like a big fat fly splattered on a windshield. Voyager also. How in the holy realms of fuck did it get 7 seasons??? I was a TNG fan, and DS9. Both of those series matured over time. Enterprise has just been flogging characters, situations and a fucking CAPTAIN that no-one gives a fuck about for 4 years and it's high time the plug was pulled. I'm gonna watch the finale, if only to see Riker and Troi in TNG uniforms and to see just how insane B & B can go with a Trek script these days. It could end up being one of the ultimate funny/stupid/parody/pathetically bad episodes of all time!
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It was mature, tragic, comic and entertaining. BSG reminds me of Deep Space Nine. Plus, the Dominion Wars was fantastic!
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DS9>excellent
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And Iggy Pop as a Vorta was inspired casting. As was Wallace Shawn as the Nagus.
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The only Star Trek series is the original. Kirk and co. went on balls-to-the-walls space faring adventures. All the rest are just glorified afterschool specials.
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Herc might be on to something. I've seen a lot of pictures from the sets and there is a lot of detail. Seems like a lot of trouble to go to for one use....
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The Original series was nearly always about something important, Racicm, Immortality, War, Good Versus Evil, Mankind's Dark Side, Automation, Wealth and Poverty, Overpopulation, Freedom, Changing the Past, Love, loss and all kinds of other heavy topics. Enterprise is about changing the batteries in the weapons array. It has no great themes, it's just about being Star Trek.
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People rave about TNG becuase, at the time for mcuh of its run, IT WAS THE ONLY FUCKING SCIFI ON THE AIR. It's easy to be #1 when you have no competition and the competition you do eventually get is even shittier. TOS is still fun to watch. TNG is just painful for most of the episodes. OOoooo! It must be sophisticated since the captain has an English accent and Troi has a massive rack. Please, tell me once again how we all suck in the 20th century becuase we don't quote Shakespeare and sip tea like a fucking pansy. That said, all of the new treks have their great moments: TNG: Best of Both Worlds. Voyager: (as noted previously) the Doomsday Timeship two-parter. DS9: lots of stuff. Enterprise: Last Season. Yes, I thought the continunity laden super-weapon season was great. All you sufferers of AADD can bite me.
But you know what? They all suck monkey balls comapred ot BSG, B5 and SG1. With the excpetion of TOS. TOS Uber Alles. -
Apr 22, 2005 3:11:41 PM CDT
For someone so clueless about DOCTOR WHO, Herc is definitely rig
by spyguy
Let's go through the rundown...STAR TREK (Classic/Original) definitely gets credit for establishing the TREK universe and for some classic stories, but just because you're first doesn't make you best. It also suffers from being understandably dated in comparison to NEXT GEN era TREK series, Shatner's overacting, a lack of characterization beyond the Big Three, and most of Season 3. STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION follows closely behind STAR TREK, but really didn't get good until "The Best of Both Worlds." Also, there was far too much time spent in the Conference Room and the Holodeck malfunctioned so often you wondered why Picard didn't just have the damn thing ripped out entirely. VOYAGER and ENTERPRISE obviously pale in comparison to TOS, TNG and DS9, so there's no point in even trying to argue those cases. DEEP SPACE NINE, meanwhile, was interesting (to most of us, anyway) from the get-go. Sisko's tragic loss of his wife Jennifer, Kira's hot-headed attitude and bitter resentment over the Cardassian occupation, Odo's shapeshifting abilities and Batmanesque treatment of security matters, Quark as the first morally suspect TREK character, Dax as the first truly hot TREK character, O'Brien as a link to TNG, Bashir as the awkward young lieutenant looking for a challenge, and Jake, who deserves a considerable of credit simply for being the anti-Wesley Crusher. Unlike the other TREK series, DS9 was a saga from beginning to end and held up over seven seasons far better than TOS did through three and TNG did through seven.
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Ahhh, sweet sweet days of science fiction heaven.
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Has anyone else ever wondered what this would be like? Would they truly be an exact opposite, or would they simply be more willing to indulge in their (and your) deepest, darkest desires? Seems like they'd be a great person to party with--until they got annoyed with you and killed you without the slightest regret.
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That show had the best characters, storlines, and diversity of any Star Trek considering they were a space station that never went anywhere. The wormhole was brilliant.
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.....the rest of that series sucked Gorilla nuts!
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doctor gonzo says, "...Without TNG (Trek) would be barely on par with Battlestar Galactica, not equal to Star Wars like it is now, in terms of popularity..." Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha!
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Seriously. Let "Trek" die for a while. All these fucking trekkies who can't face the possibility of life without a Trek show on the air are making me ill. There's always re-runs you know? Plus, Trek in it's current state has about as much dignity and class as bed-ridden cancer patient who can't stop pissing and shitting blood.
Give it ten years then come back after you've spent all that money you've raised to assinate Brannon Braga and Rick Berman. Those two guys are your problem. -
I couldn't believe how bad and awkward it was, esp. at the end when the guys all gather around and share a laugh at T'Pol's expense. "hahaha, did you hear what she said.. I think she told a joke... hahahahahahahha" Pathetic.
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Hanging out with that Goody Two Shoes? I rather drink poon flavored tang.
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Had a great staff andcrew. Most of the people who worked on that show are still churning out strong product. A surprising number seem to have come over to "24".
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Ds9 sucks
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Let all the Trek bashers die! Jesus christ give it up already! You don't like Enterprise ( we've got that ) and have said so in triplicate!I really don't get the holy crusade bit. Well there are people out there who have come to like the show recently so shut the F*^%# up already! We've heard what you had to say and it's always the same! You got your wish and the show's dead. Fortunately we have had 4 years and a really good final year! I look forward to this episode and the next incarnation of Star Trek!
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It finally did many things. It went full bore into the bureaucracy of the Federation and Starfleet. It showed us more of Earth and finally revealing what life was like on it. (Sisko was the one who said it was "paradise" compared to other habited planets.) It had a very diverse alien cast. It delved into religion (and its ties to politics). It was a very, um, "deep" series. It gave more to the Trek canon, rounding out and expanding Roddenberry's vision, more than Voyager and Enterprise ever did. The latter two series took more away (by screwing around with prior continuities openly) than they gave to the Trek canon. And for that reason alone, my friends, is why these two shows suck.
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Call it
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I want to see THAT series. Alternate opening rocked.
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Gawd, is he a stiff. Hope he warms up to being evil sometime in this mini-arc.
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So far, best Enterprise ep ever. Seeing a TOS bridge again had me all misty-eyed. Question: If being the opposite of Enterprise is good, what does that tell us about Enterprise? Discuss among yourselves.
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The mirror episode looked real good. It's a shame they didn't let characters like T'Pol and Hoshi cut loose like this. Just goes to show you what a mess of talent was completely wasted.
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Apr 22, 2005 9:15:08 PM CDT
FutureGuy: I was wondering that about Picard, but the dark mirro
by prof. pop-cult
Remember in DS9, the humans in the dark mirror universe had become slaves. The dark universe TNG crew may have taken Borg technology to go back in time and warned Cochrane of humanity's fate.
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Anybody know if this was going to be the Enterprise episode where Captain Kirk was brought back? How cool would it have been to see Kirk with the crew of Enterprise on the bridge of the Defiant battling the Tholians? It was a cool episode. But the Kirk factor would have made it a classic.
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Apr 22, 2005 9:28:41 PM CDT
Yes, Kirk was to have returned in a dark mirror universe episode
by prof. pop-cult
TrekWeb.com reported on this. The original idea was for the dark mirror universe Enterprise crew to enter the future, when humanity has been enslaved. The dark mirror universe version of Kirk would have been in a prison since the events of the dark mirror universe TOS episode.
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:)
Killer ep. I watched the opening over and over. SO awesome. -
If you assume the mirror universe is one of a jillion alternate quantum universes (which I think one TNG ep established), it's a dicey question whether you can even say all these TOS, TNG, and DS9 visits were to the same universe. Every quantum event causes a universe to fork. A huge mass of quantum events like a visit from another universe would involve a non-denumerable but for all practical purposes infinite number of forks. Which of these universes did subsequent visits occur in. All of them? One of them? A probability sheaf based on every quantum outcome? My head hurts. More scantily clad evil Hoshii, please.
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Borg-MegaTokyo crossover?
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Banned by the Austin syndicate but back briefly to give my thoughts on TREK while it lasts. After that, forget it. This site is not what it used to be. God forbid one criticize anything related to the Austin film scene. In my case it was daring to make fun of the exceedingly lame Amityville house of flies exhibit. Harry yell. Harry stomp. Harry ban. But enough of that crap. Without spoiling tonight's ep. let me just say I loved the opening - possibly the greatest teaser in the history of all Treks. Discuss. Name a better opening and I shall consider it. You know, thinking back, I believe I loved everything about tonight's ep. I am even in a good enough mood to dismiss the haters out there who are still gloating over ENTs demise in one month. Enjoy yourselves, boys. But know that Enterprise is going out on top creatively.
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Apr 22, 2005 9:45:22 PM CDT
In our dark mirror universe, Herc's taste is TV shows is better.
by jim jam bongs
And everybody on the Talkback is nice.
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RD - notice how Electric Monk is nowhere to be found after a great episode airs? C'mon, EM. Step right up and take your drubbing. I know you're dying to tell us how much ENT sucked tonight. Friendly drubbing, of course.
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SISKO GOT THE GOATIE., IN THE EPISODE WITH THE SOLAR SAIL SHIP AFTER THAT EPISODE WAS "PROBABLE CAUSE" AND "DIE IS CAST" TWO DAMN GOOD EPISODES.
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NOW THAT WAS A GOOD EPISODE!!!
This season has been such a treat! The majority of episodes have been a delight. The mirror universe episode had such a nice approach... I loved what they did to the opening and closing credits too (new songs, new footage)... well done, guys!!!! -
DEEP SPACE NINE is the eternal shizz. The best Trek indeed, although TNG and the original series at their best are very close runner-ups. DS9 had the longest stretch of being at its best.
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And I had all but given up on Enterprise. But damn, that was a damn good episode. And not just because the girls had outfits with pants cut 2 millimeters away from their respective clitori, although that didn't hurt. If they're going to insist on making more movies/series, it should be centered on the Terran Empire.
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They should have had Sisko be future guy. He is in the wormhole, where they are not "linear" beings, and therefore are not restricted by time. And Benjamin was always messing with the time stream. Heck, he even got the third degree from the time stream cops. He could have been trying to "fix" the timeline from a mistake the he, or one of the other treks caused.
And it be nice to have Avery Brooks booming voice coming down upon someone. -
they ran the opening credits and dumped that fuckin' Faith of the Heart song.
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1 No Rod Sterawt clone theme song 2 T'Pol with long hair 3. Phlox as a torturer: "Will you die already>" 4. Hoshi glistening with passion sweat. 5. Trip scarred 6. Mayweather finally gets a line (and it told to shut up) 7. old style phasers 8. First Contact footage with Stretch Cunningham from "Babe" 9. Jolene's belly and navel 10. Archer getting slapped around 11. those cool hexagonal badges with the subliminal skull eyes. 12. and this was realy my favorite part; I know the cast of Enterprise was on it, but did you even notice that none of the characters from Enterprise were on it? 13. that "your kind" reference confirming that Malcolm is gay. 14. Yokas's daughter telling the vampire goth boy to wash off his eye liner and get a job. 15. the opening credits visual with all the images equating war with evil - not too heavy handed a political analogy, was it? 16. the torture booth that automatically shifts the pain from one location to another at random, and yet no one ever grabbed their nads. 17. the fact that the customary flatulance between the trekkies and the B&B haters is pretty much irrelevent to this episode, since an episode with a different theme song and credits, set in a different universe, with none of the regular characters, hardly proves that Enterprise is good, except, conversely and paradoxically, the fact that this was an episode of Enterprise, and it fucking rocked!
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Woah, craziness.
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"Fantastic!" - The 9th Doctor.
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those ugly, crazy people who never have sex. They weren't really invited to the party, anyway.
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Just more proof that STE died before it's time. The fact they can turn out inovative episodes like this proves it! My friend came over to watch it at my house and we were laughing at the amazing intro like it was the evil Enterprise show! I'm really going to miss this show now more than ever! Hi! Cutes!
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Man, just when I thought I wouldn't miss Enterprise a bit, they pull this off. Damn. What a brilliant concept. We finally get writers and showrunner who have real imaginations, and they cancel the fucker. From the opening credits (which reminded me of the intro to Command and Conquer), to the great blending of the footage from First Contact, this episode started with a bang. And then, all the great ideas integrated into the episode: Phlox and Malcolm invent the pain booths, Porthos is a Rotweiller, the whole where the Defiant went explanation. Hot, slutty Hoshi (sounds like one from column A). The FUCKING THOLIANS! I'm having a geekgasm. You could tell everyone enjoyed playing complete bastards, especially Billingsly. "Die already!" Don't even get me going on seeing the Defiant and TOS bridge. This episode easily gets a 5 star Herc rating. Can't wait for the season 4 DVDs.
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THE FUCKING THOLIANS!
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Very cool episode. Yeah, having evil Kirk would have made this an instant classic....
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They pre-empted the show for a pig- fucking baseball game. They could have at least shown us some fast action water polo.
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Loving this season, better to burn out on than fade away.....
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And given that just about all DS9's entire writing staff have gone on to create and work on other great shows it wasn't a fluke. Braga, on the other hand, well, lets just see how well he does with Threshold. The successes (and quality) of the new BSG and Dr. Who are kinda making me rethink the "let it rest" idea, but I still think truly good Trek could thrive right now. Message to Paramount: Most fans want a new Trek series to NOT be a prequel. Personally, I would like them to pick up right where DS9 left off. The political repercussions of the Dominion War could make for a fantastic first season. And I find it funny that Berman really thinks Paramount is going to let him make a Trek 11. When's that contract up again?
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OK, Here's a wild hair. Did you guys at paramount finally do something right? Future guy=Riker as "Q". I might just be able to forgive SOME of the story telling Cock-ups from this series.
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And if they keep the regular versions of the characters out, that would be nice too. I haven't seen a full episode since the Borg ep, so I'm definitely not an expert on Enterprise, but what I always hated was the inelegance of the thing. I know it's supposed to be at a time when they are still trying to figure things out, but I dunno, none of it seemed real, too plastic, and the obsession with CG for the ships, what made the other Star Treks, and especially TNG, was that it almost looked like you could reach out and touch those ships.
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In fact Avery Brooks performances got much better by adding that goatee. Seemed to radiate confidence and gave the character a nice boast. Now, if Janeway could have had a goatee Voyager might have been a little better.
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Was it just me, or was the opening credit sequence for the mirror episode a hundred times better than regular Enterprise?
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Apr 23, 2005 4:20:53 PM CDT
I hope in Part II, they don't kill off mirror Archer and the oth
by prof. pop-cult
It would be cool if in the end, mirror Archer is the new captain of the Defiant, and he and his crew become rogues of the Terran Empire who travel the galaxy paving destruction in their path. Recall mirror Forrest suggesting that Earth was losing its war. Maybe it's mirror Archer, using the technology of the Defiant, who preserves the Empire as we see it in TOS' "Mirror, Mirror" episode. It would be a wicked in-joke if this two-parter played out like an intentionally planned set-up for a non-existent series. In the last scene, Archer declares to his crew: "We will boldly go... where no man has conquered!"
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That was funny. I'm still beeming from last night's ep. Will catch the rerun on Sunday!
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Manny Coto has stated that he and Mike Sussman had another Mirror Universe arch planned for Season 5. I think it would've shown how the Terran Empire used the Defiant and its technology to conquer the Klingons, Romulans and whoever else got in its way. I didn't think it would affect me this much but after last nights episode- hell Season 4 has rocked- but it just frickin' sucks we won't see Coto's continuing ode to the original series. All Paramount had to do was to make the offer to sister SpikeTV and we would have another season. But, parent Viacom doesn't care about Star Trek and gives it to Berman to do what he wants...and its obvious Berman wants to do a re-imagining. Read his comments on the current issue of Star Trek magazine, the hints of a Ron Moore style re-imagining are painfully clear: he wants a "younger skewing cast," and the new writer they hired from "Band of Brothers" has stated he is not a fan of Star Trek. I expect the new film to be released in 2 to 3 years with a new cast and re-imagined clean slate history; if its a success-which I doubt- then the film will be spun off into a new TV series. Ironically, the exact reverse of what happened with TOS.
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Apr 23, 2005 7:37:25 PM CDT
As much as I bitch about Enterprise, last night's show was very
by kelvington
I think any show with the old bridge has to rock. Even though it was not TOS's Enterprise it was great to see a Constellation class ship again. All CGI and clean, almost as cool as seeing it in Trials & Tribbulations. By the was DS9 was by far the best spin-off, nothing is better than that little Nana Visitor in her Mirror Mirror universe cat-suit. I actually am looking forward to next week's show. Which is something I NEVER thought I would say. Perhaps in the Mirror Mirror universe B&B are smart, clever and funny? Nahh.. no way could the galaxy be that far opposite.
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The First Contact opening rocked, right down to Zefram Cochrane himself putting a cameo. Awesome episode! DS9 rules! Out.
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After his accident, of course. I was sure someone else would mention it here, but so far no one has. Am I the only one who noticed that? Do you think that was an intentional hommage?
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Liked it, but in the end a pointless trip to the mirror universe. Had the two universes interacted, maybe it would've been more fun -and why the TOS Defiant not only entered the mirror universe (well, the cheesy looking Tholian's did it) and travel a hundred years back in time is a mystery to me.
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As soon as I saw the opening I was hooked, but the sight of the TOS phaser really hit me between the eyes. I know the haters are taking a holiday after this amazing episode, but I have enjoyed Enterprise the whole way through despite its growing pains and various shortcomings. It is totally hitting its stride right at the end but I fear the worst for the final episode after what Blalock said in the Toronto Star: "it's... appalling". I'm guessing a St. Elsewhere ending, capped off with a smirk and a twinkle in Riker's eyes.
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Nice to see they cooked up a good exit for Forrest. Much better than having the roof fall on him in the other universe. Not that he's a major character or anything, but it shows a little heart to give a written-out actor some good scenes to go out on. If only Kirk had gotten that much respect
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I am stunned by the positive reaction to this episode. I felt it was absolute crap. The tease and opening credits had me intrigued and I was excited but again I was let down by continuity errors and extremely bad acting. Apparently to show he was the evil Archer Bakula decided a permafrown was in order. The rest of the acting was equally atrocious. Phlox was a buffoon. Mayweather looked pissed (likely because when he acutally had a line they told him to shut up). The ladies looked good but again a dark haired captain's lady. All that was missing was the Tantalus field. Question if the Vulcans are slaves then how come T'pol is a Commander? Even my friends who have defended this show were disappointed by the ep. I mean maybe they should have watched the original episode particularly how the web was built in the original series to actually understand how it works. Reed was still a pussy... And the 1st Defiant crewman they see is a dead redshirt. I get the joke now move on. As will I.. Rant over.
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Apr 24, 2005 1:14:18 AM CDT
Cool -- based on Manny's ideas for another mirror universe episo
by prof. pop-cult
That will be great grist for fan fiction. And if this whole mirror universe Enterprise concept is popular enough (which it seems to be already), then there might be official spin-off novels.
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Apr 24, 2005 1:20:23 AM CDT
I think most of the viewers who loved this episode are the ones
by jim jam bongs
This episode took things to the extreme with the characters and overall concept of the regular show, and I believe many found this a breath of fresh air. The posters who said that the popularity of this episode underscores just how disappointing the regular series has been have it right. This episode has so many fans already BECAUSE the regular series stinks (at least in the opinion of many). Personally I found it daring and bold that this two-parter has nothing at all to do with the normal Enterprise characters. It's a complete standalone story. One could just watch this without ever having seen Enterprise and it could come across as a pilot episode for a very perverted version of Star Trek.
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Apr 24, 2005 1:29:33 AM CDT
The mirror version is more timely than the normal show.
by prof. pop-cult
Jim Jam, I get the same impression that Coto and Sussman may have written this two-part storyline so it purposely feels like a pilot episode. At the risk of taking this discussion into politics, all the Trek shows, except for Voyager, have related in some way to the then current political atmosphere. (TOS -- Cold War; TNG -- Post Cold War, fall of Communisim; DS9 -- New World Order, UN in Bosnia.) Enterprise tried to be relevent, especially with Season 3. But this mirror universe episode felt like it hit closer to home -- Terran Empire = America in Afghanistan and Iraq.
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Oh well.......
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>
I noticed that and also mirror-Trip mentioned it was due to the delta radiation from working years next to the reactor. That was the same massive delta radiation that was mentioned as disfiguring Captain Pike! -
Apr 24, 2005 2:37:27 AM CDT
Was there relevant plot movers in the previous episode? How'd D
by aceattorney
huh?
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I'll assume you're serious, and not a troll. But it ties into the original series episode entitled "The Tholian Web," where Kirk is trapped on the U.S.S. Defiant as it gets sucked into an interspacial rift. At the end of the episode, Kirk is rescued but the Defiant is lost. Apparently, the ship was transported back in time. For longtime Trekkies like me, this is a brilliant tie-in.
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Apr 24, 2005 10:34:27 AM CDT
If you want the tholian web and have access to newsgroups..
by kelvington
Just FYI "The Tholian Web" is up in alt.binaries.startrek, listed as Divx TOS Flood - 3x09 - "TOS-3x09 - The Tholian Web.part01.rar"
For those who want a little history nostalgia. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... in summer school. ---Buffy Summers -
this might've been interesting, but in the end, it is a pointless excercise and shows where Trek is going wrong. Manny Coto has done a damn fine job, but once Shatner pulled out of the story -because this was obviously the episode he would've appeared in - they should've scrapped the episode. Trek has lost its voice, it says nothing (except with the wonderful opening, which points out that war is EVIL) and speaks only to fan boys who now can wank themselves at seeing the belly button of T'Pol and Sato. Like I said earlier, it was okay, but in the last batch of new episodes in a series that never gelled, if the people behind Star Trek were really concerned about the fans, they should be doing episodes that focus on the crew in whatever universe ENT exists, instead of a parallel time frame that is -when you boil all of it down -not really important in the first place.
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TNG did a "mirror" type episode in season two. "Yesterday's Enterprise" was about a alternative Enterprise with Tasha Yar going in to reseal a time rift. No Deanna Troi on their ship. Yuck. Also, it had a great end where Picard had to man his own weapons because Riker and company were killed as Tasha was going in. That led to the 2-part Klingon episode and Re-unification with the Leonard Nimoy Spock character. Great episodes.
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Geez sometimes reading your posts is a poinless excercise! It was inovative and fun. If you don't get that ( and are so caught up in being right ) you're hopeless. It doesn't need to have deep meaning. It was fun to watch which is more than I give most TV shows. You know when the momentum behind the " Let's bash Enterprise because it's easy and I can look seudointellectual " became enough nothing that they could have done would have worked. Just look at the way you look at things.
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Go to startrek.com for a podcast audio commentary for this episode from Mike Sussman and someone else (forget who else). They discuss a lot of really cool references I didn't get, but some here did. Yes, Trip, was supposed to be like Capt. Pike. James Cromwell and the Vulcan captain had to give permission for footage of them to be used in the opener, which they shot on film instead of digitally to match First Contact.
Part of the Defiant bridge was borrowed from the guys at New Voyages (a web-based Star Trek show) since they have a lot of real props from the original show.
The dead red-shirt was wearing a left-over from Trials and Tribbleations. They put a phaser scorch wear the 1701 Enterprise insignia was since the Defiant crew would have had a different symbol.
There will be another podcast next week! -
I' a fair smart person, Real. I don't deny that. It's an ego thing, but I've been generally right. Which, of course, burns your ass. I did enjoy the episode, it was inovative, but you can't escape the fabulously horrible acting of Bakula -who like his counterpart in ENT's universe - is just as borning. Not for one minute did I believe he was "evil". He was regular Archer on a really bad day. Still, Real, my bashing of Trek is only to point out how much its become like those damn Easter Peeps; all air with no substance. I don't mind the Temporal Reset Button episodes, but not every single story. Then it just becomes predictable. You seem to be fine with it, which makes you one the many enablers who ultimately part of the Star Trek problem. You settled for ho hum stories just because you arrogantly thought Star Trek deserved to stay on TV, when all evidence points to a time off. I'm sorry that you can't see the obvious. Your a sad old man.
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Apr 25, 2005 2:28:24 AM CDT
Well, this talkback just choked to death on its own pretentiousn
by tall_boy
And that's the end of that chapter.
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The main problem with Enterprise, aside from the atrocious writing, acting, and direction, is that the shows aren't really about anything. Like it or not, Star Trek was always about some message or theme or some moral. Enterprise has none of that, which is why it is flat, boring shit. It stuns me that any fan of TOS, TNG or DS9 would like this series. The cast is simply awful. Bakula, for the love of God man! Jeez he is an absolute wreck. He has no charisma, and is just painful to watch. Ditto with Blalock. And whoever plays Hoshi. But the bottom line is the writing is awful, obvious, pedantic, and just plain uninteresting! I seriously caanot believe how many people liked this episode. Yeah, I know, it is cool to see the old bridge and the old phasers, but what is it in aid of? I can watch old Star Trek for that. The Scotty ep of TNG, Relics, which also featured the old bridge, was fantastic, mainly because there was a goddamn point to the story!!!! And there was some emotional impact on the character seeing the fucking bridge. Enterprise is lackluster and a complete insult to Roddenberry's vision. I braved the first season, and it was abominable. The second season premiere was what lost me, as it was so incredibly stupid and unimaginative. I have tuned in periodically since, and the show is just as bad, if not worse, than the first season. There is no moral to any of these stories, they are just generic B-grade sci-fi action bullshit!!! No different than the crap that is Andromeda or anything on the Sci-Fi channel. To anyone who disagrees, please feel free to fuck off.
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What's the matter don't like the fact that most of the people here don't agree with you this time?
Yes you're sort of smart but also pompus and pretentious. You really had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to come up with something negative to say to this one. I'm arrogant? Ha! I couldn't touch you on that one if I tried! Also I love it when people comment on the first half of a 2 parter and say " There's no point to the story ". Geez! -
The one consolation of ENTERPRISE being cancelled is I will never again have to wade through your wildly ego-driven posts. My friend, you are wrong once in a while. And what the hell is wrong with a little T'Pol skin showing? I would say scantily clad females is more of an homage to the original Mirror, Mirror than just catering to the slobbering fan boys out there.
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the "Mirror, Mirror" skirts and thigh boots... I enjoyed watching the actors have fun chewing the scenery, though!
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You guys can't see the forest for the trees. I'm 1 of 10 million viewers who abandoned Star Trek if only because the show was so dumbed down, it made TOS -with it's go-go boots, half-naked women dropping down to pray at the heeels of Kirk - look like Emmy winning material. TOS had a lot of charm, despite some drawbacks. ENT has (along with the anemic VOY) no charm, no warmth, no humor. Please, if I can cause such a ruckus between the both you, explain why Star Trek has lost so many viewers? And please, don't give any stock prattle that there are more cable channels and choices or what not (okay, I give you the choices). Competition for Trek is not based one factor, but when people start thinking Hope & Faith has more interesting stories, well then, you are doomed. Trek has always been about the people, not about CGI effects and stunt casting (that is left to the more blander shows like Will & Grace). You both seem to miss the point that most of Trek's fans who left, all have one thing common: the stories are dumb, the acting is atrocious and no one seems to see it. That is why 10 million fans have rung off this series -I'm not the only one who sees this. Both of you think you deserve to see Trek, no matter how unspeakable it gets. You are the enablers. I sure the both you are smart people, but like a person who still smokes are being diagnosed, you refuse to see the writing on the walls (or the AICN web site). Besides, Cutest, I be here, always. I can't wait until Brannon Braga's show gets picked up, so I can mock that.
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Apr 25, 2005 3:14:56 PM CDT
I liked the "Mirror" opening credits, but the music was terrible
by big jim
it sounded like something put together on someone's home computer (Windows 95) by getting several pieces of music and forcing them together. If it had been a true Enterprise Mirror episode, would it not have opened with an anti-Russel Watson song? Something like this:
It -
Apr 25, 2005 3:16:42 PM CDT
Sorry, forgot the site would not allow formatting of any kind
by big jim
so the lyrics above are mashed into one large, fairly incomprehensible mess of a paragraph.
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EM, allow me some time to gather my thoughts and retort. I am still floored you have actually responded to my gentle goading. :)
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" Porthos hasn't had his dinner yet. " Em You really do need to holster that ego. You'll notice I didn't respond to the cheap shot about my age ( at least you got my gender right this time ). I was talking to several people this morning about the show and everyone who saw it liked it. One guy at work said if they'd done this 3 years ago it would still be on for another 3! The thing about STE is that it's always been too serious. It needed a funny episode. The amout of detail that they put into this episode is amazing. They needed a romp. If you can't understand the need for humour and always have to be painfully serious that's what's really the sad thing here. I'm convinced if they had started out with Manny Coto at the helm we'd have another 7 season run. Oh well there's always next time.
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But EM is right, Star Trek (and all sci fi for that matter, is *supposed* to be about the people and the stories, not the gadgets, phasers/torpedoes etc.
You can argue all you want whether it was because of Moore or not, but DS9 was great cuz it was about the people and their problems, the space station and the Star Trek universe was just the backdrop. The fact that the entire show was based in the Bajoran sector where they're relatively backwater and technologically primitive compared to the rest of the Star Trek universe should be your first clue.
Voyager on the other hand was all about the mind numbing technobabble. Robert Beltran was constantly bitching about how his character was underutilized despite Chakotay's unique background. Every goddamned episode was centered around some fancy technology, or some idiotic anomoly or wacky aliens of the week.
Anyway, back to Enterprise, I have to agree with Big Jim that the opening was pretty sweet...the music, while a HUGELY refreshing change of pace from the normal, was still....just off or something. I think what they should have done was some big military anthem...get the war drums a-beatin ya know? Get the whole lock-step of military bearing feel to it. almost bordering on cheezy (cuz how cheezy is the Terran Empire salute and no one's bitching about that)
I was going to complain that, yet again, Star Trek was leaning on that poor, overused, crutch called "Time Travel" again, but I wasn't aware of "The Tholian Web" (never was a TOS fan, just can't see past the overly melodramatic 60s acting) so I guess I'll forgive it. -
The reason ST is in decline is not just the crappy writing/stories. There has been a ST show running ever since 1987 for crying out loud. Enough is enough...give ST a ten year break at the very least. Give people a chance to frickin *MISS* Star Trek instead of this constant barrage of technobabble and time travel.
ST, come back when you've got something fresh, percolate on it for a decade or so and then come back. -
Apr 25, 2005 8:16:04 PM CDT
Good clean silly fun. Darth Archer was a blast and x-tra sleazy
by noriko takaya
But as others have pointed out, too little too late. If they had *started* with this level of quality Enterprise would been guaranteed a 7 year run. Ah well live an' learn. Toppu o Nerae!
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I can easily explain why ENTERPRISE has lost so many viewers: you guys are all dumb. Seriously, I don't have an answer. I'll just take a stab at it and say there has been a break in the space-time continuum and we have all branched off into an evil, Trekless future where fanboys slobber over Cylons and not Klingons. As for Braga's new Trek, I have heard that Coto is willing to give a new Trek a try if asked. I would hope the suits would go with his pitch as I'm pretty sure it will beat the hell out of the tired Starfleet Academy/O.C. in space crap that Braga would suggest. If Coto's show goes forward I'll be here fighting the good fight.
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Apr 26, 2005 12:13:07 AM CDT
Here's an idea. Why don't you go away for ten years and we'll
by cookylamoo
Even with Bakula giving perhaps his worst performance ever, this episode still rocked. Loved the Mirror Porthos who I guess got blown to kibbles and bits.
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In the end, we can all agree that Braga and Berman caved into the demographic nature that rules Hollywood. Both took heaps of money, altered the entire Trek universe and basically gave the finger to anyone who pointed out their obvious distaste for what they were doing. A large number of fans finally went away, and only a few remained. These few are vocal, but have little power in the halls of Paramount. But I've been told over the years that if I'm going to fight a battle, make sure its one you can win. I don't think I failed Trek, I think it failed us. So, I realized it was not worth trying to save, insomuch as giving TrekUnited any money. Manny Coto - as I've said for most of this season - has done a damn fine job, and even this Mirrior Universe story is well done (but I still had hoped that they would've interacted with Our ENT hero's, then it would've became less pointless, less Temporal Reset Button-y). Coto deserves a chance to pitch another Trek series long before either Berman or Braga do. What Trek needs to do is take the next step in its evolutionary life. Going back and telling the early days of the Federation was, to some point, a great idea, but was ruined by Berman and Braga's warmned over ideas, bad casting and desperate plan to appeal to white, straight males only between the ages of 14 and 24. Coto's idea, if you can believe them, will set a series sometime after the 24th Century episodes of TNG, DS9 and VOY. Which is something they should've always thought about. In the end, my only problems with this two-part story is the fact it will, in the end, impact nothing (at least DS9's Mirror stories were linear tales, progressing to their logical conclusions) in the current Trek universe. Sure its fun to act (and I use that term loosely with Bakula) all silly and what not, but what is the whole point, at least from how it will fit into what has already been established? We'll never know, and that, in the end of all things, is what's sad. Trek's unique voice has been lost in a choir of bad business making. If it is to return, it will need to appeal to a lot more people than teen boys. It will need to be more special than VOY or ENT put together.
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EM, I actually agree with you. As for Coto's new version, if it is indeed set post-Picard by say, 100 years, there needs to be some sort of Ferderation-destroying/altering situation going on that will propel our heroes each week. They certainly can't sit around listening to Shakespeare like TNG was prone to do. What say you EM & RD?
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I really don't think Trek is dead. I just think the B & B version might be. I just don't want to wait 10 flipping years ( until I'm in my 60's ) to see ST on the TV again. And you know what? I don't think I'll have to. I just hope it's Coto because he seems to have the feel for what it needs.
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Except for a few episodes written by real SF writers and some time travel riffs, wasn't 90% of ALL 5 series technobabble and recycled plots? Therefore, I'm deciding the best series be based on which had the best looking regular female crew member. Hands down, that was Seven of Nine (Jeri If-I-Were-Her-Husband-I-Wouldn't-Want-To-Share Ryan). Followed by T'Pol (Jolene I'll-Meld-With-You Blalock). There were some standout individual ep T&A on Classic, but maybe the best being Famke By-The-Time-I-Get-To-Phoenix Janssen on TNG. The rest of the TNG cast though were Big Noses all. Props for introducing Roe Laren though. Had Michelle Roe-Her-Boat Forbes (taken the role made for her on DS9, that might have been the hottest series week in and week out. But, sigh, she had her big movie career with blockbusters like KALIFORNIA, SWIMMING WITH SHARKS, and, er, well.... that's about it. Something too sister-ish about Terry Ferrell, except when kissing another sheila. Plus she had worm. Nicole de Boer gets an honorable mention for a year or two eye candy. But perky 5 foot doe-eyed Nana Visitor totally miscast as a military colonel and former terrorist.... No, and hell no. Who'm I leaving out?
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