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KINGDOM OF HEAVEN Has Started Screening!!
Hi, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab...
God, I wish we were going to be seeing the 2 hour 45 minute cut of this film in theaters this May. I hear it’s a thing of beauty, and that we’ll eventually see it on home video. So how’s the shorter studio-friendly edit play? Let’s see...
Hi Harry, Wierzbowski here.
I sent you the story about the triple X sequel a month or so back. I’ve returned with
a vengeance and a review of Mr. Blade Runner’s KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. I saw it at a test
screening in Pasadena last night. I’ll start right off by saying I have
mixed feelings about this film. I love Ridley Scott’s movies. There hasn’t been one
in the past decade that I haven’t enjoyed (ok maybe G.I. Jane). But seriously, this
is the man who gave us so many of our fanboy favorites. God bless him for
Alien.
On the one hand, HEAVEN is a technical masterpiece, shot with the usual grace and
visual flair we have come to expect from Scott. The sets, costumes and overall look
of the film are all perfectly executed. The special effects are seamless
(finally someone has gotten massive to look completely natural). The film has a cast
of thousands feel and an epic story to tell yet still, somewhere along the line it
falls slightly short of its goal.
I had trouble pinpointing the reason why I wasn’t connecting with the film as much as
I would have liked. It certainly wasn’t the quality of the actors or their
performances –the underused Jeremy Irons stands out here- and the little we get of
Liam
Neeson is fantastic. Ghassan Massoud plays Saladin, and demands your attention. What
a great face. Then we come to Bloom. I wasn’t expecting to think much of Orlando
Bloom, but even he does a decent job. So what was the problem?
It wasn’t the story, which takes place during the crusades and tells the story of
Balian (Bloom), a young blacksmith who rises to protect his people in Jerusalem from
foreign Muslim invaders. Do I smell controversy? No, absolutely not. My fears
that the Muslims would be depicted as barbarian savages were pleasantly proved wrong.
Scott does a great job of not vilifying the Muslims or the Christians, but instead
showing the corruptive effects of power, greed and religion from both
angles. There are bad individuals on both sides, but there’s no right or wrong side.
So here’s what didn’t work for me. I didn’t feel a connection to Bloom’s character at
all. I didn’t care about his moral choices or conflict. There was no sympathy there,
and here’s why: had Bloom’s character made one different choice and killed
one certain person at one exact moment, thousands upon thousands of people would have
been saved. In this regard, the film felt hollow. There was no protagonist to really
root for, and I don’t think it’s Bloom’s fault.
I don’t want to bring up a comparison with Gladiator, but love it or hate it, you
have to admit that you cared for Maximus and wanted to see him get his revenge. The
whole movie built to that moment. There’s nothing like that in this film. No build-
up. No real character arc. The villain on the Christian side of the conflict is week,
and a set-up confrontation between him and Bloom never happens. I also have to add
that mass battles are beginning to look redundant. Scott tries new things
here, but we’ve really seen it all before now.
In the end I’m being harsh. I expect a lot from a great filmmaker. In all honesty,
this blows the myriad of recent poor-man’s epics out of the water (Troy cough, King
Arthur cough… don’t get me started on Alexander). With the abundance of
mediocrity these days, I’m hoping this film will shine. Even with its weaknesses, it
proves that Ridley Scott is still the king of the epic.
-Wierzbowski out.
Hmmmm... I wonder if a longer running time might have offered you the material that made you give a shit about Bloom? I guess only time will tell...
"Moriarty" out.
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+ Expand All
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It's always a big event when one of his films comes out. Looking forward to this one.
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I love historical epics and a film set during the Crusades = teh rawk.
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I could see that one coming from a mile away... even when the reviewer was "trying to figure out" why he didn't love it. Bloom may be a (barely) competent actor with a pretty face but he has all the charisma and gravitas of a pile of Pumice stone. To paraphrase Chris Rock -- "If you want Russell Crowe, don't get Orlando Bloom. Wait"!
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""If you want Russell Crowe, don't get Orlando Bloom. Wait"!"
100% true, Mr Brownstone!!!!
I used to do a little but a little wouldn't do so the little got more and more... -
Apr 07, 2005 6:14:23 AM CDT
Hey! Even an imperfect epic is still good enough for me!
by rogue_leader
After the suckworthy epics we've seen shat upon the screen with Troy and Alexander this sounds MORE than good enough for me.
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... so I can't put my trust in the opinion of someone who hated it to the extent of comparing it to KING ARTHUR.
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Apr 07, 2005 7:56:02 AM CDT
Let's see...Crowe has been in 15 movies that made 632 million...
by minderbinder
Smart money says fuck Crowe, DO get Bloom.
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Take the LOTR movies out of that equation and you're left with one Johnny Depp movie. I think giving Bloom the credit for its success is a little, well, stupid. Smart money says get a good franchise, or Russell Crowe - Bloom had little to do with that $1.4 billion. My god, his Paris in Troy was one of the most unlikeable characters in recent history. He found no centre to that part.
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he's not an A class caliber actor, and won't pull in massive BO returns. The girls fawn and blush at the mere sight of him, but we guys don't. At least not we that are straight :)
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He's a coward and a traitor in the original story. Whether or not you think he deserves the credit, the fact is he's been in a bunch of HUGE movies (don't forget, Troy and Black Hawk Down both did well). And smart money definitely does NOT say get Russell Crowe. Look at what he's done, tons of his movies have barely made anything, he's NO guarantee of box office success whatsoever.
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Apr 07, 2005 8:47:15 AM CDT
Moriarity: "I wonder if a longer running time might have offered
by triumph poops!
Sorry, Mori, but a weak excuse to cover things (assuming the disconnect towards Bloom is as bad as the test reviewer comments). Bottom line: Scott and crew STILL had 2 full hours to make you care. If the director or writers or editors didn't accomplish, I seriously doubt thatthe extra footage was the make or break of things. Frankly, you could tack on another fucking 6 hours and you'll never convince me, no matter how much dialoque exposition there is, that I should take Bloom seriously as a Russell Crowe-like Glatiator movie star. Was LOTR fun? Yes. Does Bloom has heroic charisma? Sorry, he's a total wimpish drip. A young Mel Gibson he is not.
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Althought this isn't a shining review of Kingdom it does sound like a better balance of the themes we should have seen in that Alamo crapfest.
I can't wait to see this film. I've been replaying the trailer's over and over and hell, even Bloom looks good in it. -
can you not even see a flaw in your argument about those actors and box office returns? I cant even be bothered to point it out...
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I said EVEN IF YOU DON'T THINK HE DESERVES THE CREDIT, Bloom has been in huge money makers. That's fact. As his career goes forward, we'll see if he's a box office draw without other big stars or a franchise to help him out. And regarding Crowe, I said that he has made plenty of movies that did very little at the box office. If he was a guarantee of BO success, shouldn't he have more big hits under his belt?
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Apr 07, 2005 9:51:56 AM CDT
"Bloom has been in huge money makers"... and so have Merry and P
by captain katanga
...its a meaningless statement because you absolutely cannot give Bloom credit for the box office of those films. Thats not to say I dont like the guy. Anyway the Crowe comparison isnt about box office... its about charisma.
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But I didn't want to see Russell Crowe in another sword fighting, Ridley Scott epic. Been there, done that.
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I can't believe I'm on the fence about this one. A Ridley Scott movie. A CRUSADES Ridley Scott movie. The trailer just got no emotion out of me, and the movie seems to be the same. EPIC movies of old didn't have to stage giant battles that all look the same. They had characters that drove the plot. Between Gladiator, Lord of the Rings, Troy (underrated), Alexander, and King Arthur, these battles are all starting to not only look, but FEEL the same. I'm a sucker for the genre, so I'll see it, but I don't think I'll be rushing out to do so. Damn.
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Apr 07, 2005 12:27:42 PM CDT
Yeah, we all know Box Office is an accurate and important measur
by iamjacksuserid
Yeah, Bloom was in the over-rated LOTR and POTC film/s! Wow! There are many better actors that could have done this role! Hell, anyone could have been Legolas! But you always have to have that 'pull-in' factor for such non-mainstream films, so Bloom's yer man!
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Fuck the box office returns that came about based on the supporting casts from movies he was acting in. Kingdom Of Heaven looks like a carbon copy of Gladiator based on the trailers (showest included) and the tv spots they started running. And what do you know, this guys says the movie has no soul. This movie is troy all over again.
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Man, David Straitharn (LA CONFIDENTIAL, THE FIRM) is a dead ringer for the Saladin actor.
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liam neeson plays a mentor again after STAR WARS and BATMAN and dies...its in the fucking international trailer i couldnt believe it
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I am in. The movie looks like something worth sitting in the theater for a few hours. This debate about Bloom and Crowe though, are you kidding me? There is no comparrison. And I doubt many people are going to go see KoH because Bloom is in it, their going to go watch an entertaining movie by a good director.
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Because judging by some of these comments you'd wonder why he has a career! OK, so his popularity is currently a female-only phenomenon...the same was once true of his Troy co-star Brad Pitt. Then Seven and Fight Club proved there was more to Pitt than just a pretty face. Bloom will prove himself to male audiences yet...
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Don't forget about Snatch and 12 Monkeys. Pitt is an awesome actor who could care less about how he looks on film. On another note, I am a little confused about all the hate that is thrown towards Bloom. Was he not in one of the most successful and entertaining trilogies of all time? I thought fanboys and the general public really liked Bloom as Legolas. Then, Bloom came right back with POTC, which was also happily received by the general public. I thought he was a nerd favorite. Suddenly, everyone hates him and knocks his acting ability, what the hell? I hope he surprises everyone with KOH. Oh yeah... you were supposed to hate him as Paris!! It is a credit to Bloom that so many people hated his CHARACTER in Troy (that was the point). People were supposed to sympathize with Eric Bana, who was great in Troy.
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Here is my two cents on the subject: Although I do not feel as negatively towards Bloom as many talkbackers seem to, I do think he is not a leading man. In LOTR, Troy, and even Pirates he was a character driving the plot and action, but not the actual focus. His role is to compliment the main character, not be him. He saves Aragorn with acrobatic finesse, plays the straight-man to Depp's oddities, or displays the nobility of Bana through his cowardice. In no way does he have the charisma to hold up his own film, but I don't think less of him for it, just the people that cast him.
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But sometime in the 90's he started cutting his movies like a kid with ADD. Too many shots crammed together, no sense of visual or spatial continuity. And, even worse, he got so fucking pompous about his over-blown B-movies. Gladiator is just a sword and sandal pic with good actors and a huge budget. Even Tony Scott cuts too much these days, and he was the cut-heavier of the two. Ridley hires the best DP's in the world, lights like a great Italian painter, then jumbles all these gorgeous shots togther in a big visual mess. That fast-cutting and hyperactive style distances the viewer. I bet if Scott re-made Alien today, it would be a piece of shit. Someone take away his scissors and make him bolt his fucking camera down. Editing and camera movement are only a PART of cinema's visual language. Orson Welles once said "What separates the men from the boys is to be able to play a whole scene in medium-long shot. Any idiot can make a movie with a two-inch lens and a pair of scissors." I'm not saying Scott should do this exactly, but for chrissakes you git, let the audience SEE the movie. Not a bunch of fucking editing.
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He's a boring, pedestrian actor, especially in these heroic, Braveheart-lite roles. Unless he's playing Legolas, he should be in more contemporary material.
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Apr 07, 2005 4:05:45 PM CDT
I'm going to see this movie just because it's not a fucking re-m
by forestal
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Legolas was a hugely popular character, one of the best in the film. The negativity towards Bloom now reeks of a backlash, perhaps because he's done the swashbuckling thing in 6 movies over 5 years...he doesn't seem to be making a conscious effort to avoid typecasting, but then again maybe he's just grateful to have found his niche.
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Apr 07, 2005 4:17:13 PM CDT
The problem is we've seen too many of these over the top million
by orionsangels
most lack any real substance
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Apr 07, 2005 5:05:59 PM CDT
"Was LOTR fun? Yes. Does Bloom has heroic charisma? Sorry, he's
by tubba-guts
Yeah, right. I think millions of women around the world would argue that. Bloom had "heroic chrisma" blowing out his wazoo in LoTR. I've seen the preview for this movie and it looks like he's a fuckin' heroic figure to me. But, y'know, let's all just bash the shit out of an actor before we've even seen the movie. Of course, that's the AICN Goon Squad way, isn't it? Oh, unless it's anything that stinks of the Goon Squad's precious Star Wars. Fucking fan boys kill me.
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Perhaps everyone is bitching so much in this thread because they're pissed that Star Wars will STILL not get any major awards at the Oscars, and this one just might play big at the Oscars?
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Yours was one of the better posts I've read around here. Great points. Ridley's best work always featured rock-solid compositions and tight cutting. You felt you were watching a director who really understood film language. Although I still enjoy his work for the most part, I feel he's treading dangerously into Michael Bay, hit you over the head with an ACME safe, territory.
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Apr 07, 2005 5:32:52 PM CDT
Scott's Matchstick Men was his most craftsmanly bit of directing
by osmosis jones
Seriously, anyone who thinks Scott's lost his ability to hold that camera still (which really bugged the shit out of me in Gladiator, along with the Playstation CG and hideous score), should check out the underrated Matchstick Men. A great movie, and perfect for Scott to take a break from these gigantic "epic" productions.
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therefore, i will go see it no matter what kind of reviews it gets. she is about the most beautiful actress in the world, followed distantly by keira knightley.
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It was literate and strong. don't be a sheep following the flock.
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people are still blasting Troy which was a great flick. Anyway, this film looks fantastic to me. Bloom actually looks competent in the part.
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Apr 07, 2005 7:27:55 PM CDT
I would, however, take Bloom over the likes of Ashton Kutcher, F
by iamjacksuserid
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CalVarnson, thanks for the kind response. Osmosis, thanks for reminding em of Matchstick men, which was, I'll admit, a bit of a return to form for Scott.
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Apr 07, 2005 9:19:33 PM CDT
Face it, Orlando Bloom has ZERO charisma and is NO fucking swash
by commando cody
I don't care that Bloom's done repeated "swashbuckling" type of movies (Lord of the Rings, Pirates, now this). The bottom line is that at 28 and pushing 30, Bloom STILL looks too much like a girly pretty boy (which I supposed is fine for some of the ladies if that's their taste) but let's be honest: the man has NO inspiring or heroic commanding presence AT ALL. Zero. Zip. Nada. Case in point, watch the trailer and even compare the juxtaposed scene of Liam Neeson swearing in Bloom versus Bloom swearing in the ordinary guy as nights and you'll see a perfectly clear definition of someone who can actually ACT and hold the screen versus someone who can't. And besides, speaking of people doing lots of "swashbuckling" movies in a row, Errol Flynn was even YOUNGER (24) when he made CAPTAIN BLOOD. Now THERE was someone you could see onscreen and say "Fuck! That guy's clearly leading man, movie star material." Bloom is a total whiney wet rag on camera. Even in the TRAILER for this he comes off like a whiny bitch. It makes my teeth rattle to even watch him for a few minutes in that, yet Moriarity thinks it would help if the movie was even LONGER? Just admit he was miscast and be done with it. Hey, I have no problem with people getting work and truth be told, this will probably open up "big enough" as a new Friday night flick where people figure they'll hit the multiplex simply to get out of the house). And thus I'm sure it will make Hollywood suits think that Bloom is a "draw" when the truth is people just figured "Ah, what the hell. In the commercials it looks big. It looks like we'll get 10 bucks worth of stuff on the big screen" and hence they'll go. But anyone thinking that people will be flocking to this BECAUSE of Bloom, because he's such a star-power draw -- or worse, because he's so "heroic" on screen -- seriously need to put down their crack pipes and seek medical attention.
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"But, y'know, let's all just bash the shit out of an actor before we've even seen the movie. Of course, that's the AICN Goon Squad way, isn't it? Oh, unless it's anything that stinks of the Goon Squad's precious Star Wars. Fucking fan boys kill me." Was right with you there until you got to the end. Sorry, but the talkbackers on this site are about as anti-Star Wars, (not to mention George "Luca$" as they tend to refer to him around here) as is humanly possible. ------- Really looking forward to this film. Not expecting a classic, but sounds like it should be good.
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Apr 07, 2005 9:42:23 PM CDT
Only one man could've repelled the Muslim army - DENNY CRANE.
by big dumb ape
Bloom sucks ass as a leading man. Too much of a wimp. Now the Shat? Even at 70 you could see HIM repelling the Muslim forces!
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If the part he is to play is badly written then it won't matter how well he can act (I offer Portman and Neeson's performances in Phantom Menace as Exhibit A). And I'm not saying this just because I want him to DO ME 'TILL THE BREAK OF DAWN!! ^_^ Aham. Anyway stop picking on "Troy" and "King Arthur" y'all- they were fine for what they were. Got 'em on DVD, too! Not every historical epic can be "Sparticus" you know. Alexander, on the other hand, was utter sh!t. I can't WAIT for the DeLaurentis version with (*siiiiigh*) DiCaprio; it can't possibly be worse. Meanwhile I do expect good things from Kingdom of Heaven. Toppu o Nerae!
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Don't forget she was the number one grossing actress for many, many years (until finally being surpassed by Julia Roberts) under the same criteria Orlando Bloom is being compared to Russell Crowe in terms of box office ...
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Apr 07, 2005 11:45:40 PM CDT
You know the truly sad truth about Bloom? Big Dumb Ape is right.
by triumph poops!
Even with the joke aside, Big Ape's still right. Even in his old age Shatner is STILL fucking faaaaaaar more believable as a kick-ass "I will kill you all and defend this city" Knight than Bloom is at the prime of his life. Man, that really puts Bloom's manhood into perspective!
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Apr 08, 2005 12:37:36 AM CDT
"ALEXANDER was my favourite film of 2004 ..." ALEXANDER was my
by malebolgia
fav"ou"rite says it all ya limey c sucker
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You, sir, have hit the nail on the head. The opening battle in Gladiator was a MAJOR disappointment because of this very thing you describe (not to mention the Germans were complete tactical fools in the battle, but that's the script). I loved Gladiator, but would have loved it even more if I was allowed to adore the images displayed on screen, rather than having to freeze frame to catch something.
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Bloom has been in big sword-fighting flicks and they've all been pretty good (apart from Troy which was ok until Hector was killed and just became aneamic after that) - I think he'll do pretty well in the role - and with that director and that supporting cast, I can't imagine it'll be any less than good. Personally, his BIG TEST is going to be Elizabethtown - it's going to be the first time a major audience see him in a role that doesn't require swashbuckling, swordfondling and big epic vistas - instead it's contemporary dramatic/comedic role (with an American accent to boot) and if he pulls that off, then I'll be convinced.
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Apr 08, 2005 7:24:19 AM CDT
Awright, what other AICN old-timers thought of Harry's raving of
by cknightshift
No not the abortion of a Babylon 5 spinoff but the script that Paul Verhoven was going to film with Ahnuldt as a crusader named Hagen. Remembe how Harry used to write it "HAAAAAGEN!!" and how this was "the movie that Basil Pouldouris was born to score!"? That was like ten years ago.
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Starring a pre-governor Arnold, based on a badass Walon Green screenplay and with music by Basil Poledouris. Also the movie that didn't get made because the studio decided to invest in Renny Harlin's CUTTHROAT ISLAND instead. One of the biggest mistakes Hollywood ever made and thank god the studio went bankrupt for it. Maybe in 20 or 30 years they'll resurrect that script (it is too good to stop ciculating) and make it with the next Verhoeven and the next Arnold and no, by that I don't mean Vin or Dwayne.
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Well, you almost got me. I'm from Europe, but not from the UK. They just teach us British English in school for some reason. And yeah, I'm bisexual (like ALEX) so I take no offense at being called a cocksucker. You pathetic, homophobic, AmeriKKKan Jesusfreak.
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You can stop waiting because it'll never happen. One of the producers refuses to agree to let Scott & Co. work with the materials again. I forget his name but basically he's had some fall-out with Scott decades ago and since he doesn't care about money (he's some billionaire) this is his way of getting back at him. He also doesn't give a shit about the fact that he's pissing off millions of geeks in the process of getting his childish revenge. That's Hollywood for ya.
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What was the big deal with him? I don't recall a single line of his dialogue, all I remember is him shooting a lot of arrows. He looked pretty cool doing it, but he had ZERO personality. Even Liv Tyler has more personality, and everyone knows she's got air in her head. The reason Bloom is popular is because he is a blank, blonde, inoffensive, safe-looking, safe-behaving, unthreatening canvass upon which women and girls can impose their dime-store romantic fantasies. I'm sure he's a nice guy in real life, but if he wants to impress me (and Lord knows I'm sure he loses sleep over impressing Wee Willie, some talkback loser) but if he wants to impress me, he should play a total bastard in something.
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Apr 08, 2005 12:34:27 PM CDT
I still don't get why Ridley Scott got Bloom for this role
by performingmonkey
I've always thought Bloom wouldn't be able to carry a movie as the lead and yet here he is as the lead, but WHY?? He can't deliver a line of dialogue without it being laughable. This is OK in POTC because it works in a comedic way. In LOTR he didn't have to do much apart from the physical side, and any lines that he did have he had an excuse for dumb delivery because he's an elf. Troy was one of the piss-poorest big movies I've ever seen, and Bloom added to the shitness greatly. Fuck knows what Scott was on when he cast him. Surely he didn't think he needed some kind of box office draw. Crowe, although he'd been in LA Confidential, was largely unknown for Gladiator which helped things a lot for that film. He was much more the character rather than the actor playing the character because we hadn't seen him in much by then. The same went for LOTR. Now for Kingdom of Heaven people are just going to be thinking 'oh, an Orlando Bloom movie' and Bloom is shit so people are just gonna assume the worst from the get go.
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They turned that down in favor of CUTTHROAT ISLAND?!? That's it, there is no God. Or the end times really are upon us. I read the script for Crusade and it woulda been one of the most epic films in the history of anything and it's a damned travesty that it wasn't made at all but that it was thrown out in favor of that Renny Harlin crapfest... just DAMN man.
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http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=2453
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I'll never understand why the whole world praises Scott's Gladiator as it would be a kind of a masterpiece? Sure, it started a new wave of historic-sandal-epic movies and sure it was a fine film but i'll never consider it as an awesome great classic or something.
Just think of all the old classics it doesn't matter if you think of Charlton Heston or Kirk Douglas etc. They were pure magic. Gladiator was so successful 'cause it made a story placed in old history in a flashy way with much money for the young generation. In nowadays one has the feeling that all the elements in films like Troy or Gladiator are just an excuse for fight and battle sequences. Action, Action, Action. The whole mass want action. Tell me one BIG BUDGET film with ancient historic background after Gladiator which wasn't concentrated on ACTION. Yes right, there was one big effort which couldn't succeed: It was Oliver Stone's Alexander! This was the only film which tried to make a real profound film like the old classics. But i think Stone was confused to make clear what he actually wanted to tell with his film... And the academy award for Crowe was a joke. He deserved it much more for "The Insider" or "A Beautiful Mind". His performance in Gladiator was not something SPECIAL... And guess who got the award when he was nominated f -
While I see why the comparisons between epics are being made here, I confess I find the Crowe/Bloom comparison in terms of BO returns a bit superfluous. Crowe was established as an action hero by the time he reached Gladiator. If one wants to be honest, this is Bloom's big opportunity to make it bigger than the single dimensions of his prior roles. Whether he can do that, though clearly in doubt, I'd still say all the condemnation of him here is a bit premature. My guess is he'll certainly come off a lot more sensitive, which annoys many, but there are still more questions for me, than answers as to his ability to carry his own vehicle.
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I second that.
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While there is, and always has been, bashing of SW and Lucas on this site, it
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Well I'm an admitted LOTR nut, and now learning Bloom was the lead for KoH(im a lotr fan, don't really follow the actors' careers!), it does sound strange to cast him in this big epic action role when he wasn't particulary impressive in Troy or PotC. Cate Blanchett was awesome in Aviator, but she was already an accomplished stage actress while Bloom practically started his first movie at 20 in FoTR. Maybe Scott in his old age doesn't care anymore(and pissed off losing the best directing oscar for Gladiator-look at his expression when Solderhead won for Traffic) and assumes Bloom will bring in the feminine bucks no matter what. Comment on CGI. Only LOTR used CGI armies the most effectively because Jackson used CGI as a tool only for his carefully prepared vision on the battles. Example, in 1997 when the small Helm's Deep miniature was ALREADY finished, he had thousands of miniature soldiers laid out to stage the battle years before filming the nightime months long shoot of the Helm's Deep stunt fighting sequences.
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