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FANTASTIC FOUR ShoWest Trailer hits, Spider-Man's life is gonna be a real beach in Spidey 3!

Hey folks, Harry here... before getting to the blah feelings about THE FOOLISH FOUR flick... let's start with good and happy news. Multiple spies at Sony have confirmed that Thomas Hayden Church will indeed be playing SANDMAN. There's a ton of Sandman conceptual art all over the Spidey-offices! I have to admit, as much as I love Sandman - he really did have the best episode of SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS... that scene of him on the beach tormenting Parker is still one of my all time fave Spidey images... I also was kinda wishing for the whole Kraven / Lizard story line that McFarlane did that I absolutely fucking loved. But all in good time. Meanwhile FANTASTIC FOUR is just kinda empty feeling. Human Torch and Thing kinda look good - but hell man - It's Clobbering Time needs some fucking enthusiasm - some gusto - some glee. Doc Doom just looks bad, I hate Reed Richards in every single shot. It's like they were so busy working on the physics, that they forgot that it's about speed and the fun and creative ways he stretched. I mean - he isn't fucking TOOMS - he's Mr Fantastic! Also - it just kinda all looks half-assed. A FANTASTIC FOUR trailer should leave you breathless - not thinking about SUPERNOVA! Ugh.

Hey Harry,

There's a new trailer for the FANTASTIC FOUR, apparently from ShoWest, on FantasticFourMovie.Com . When you enter the site, you will eventually come to a menu with the character names spinning. Press F4 on the keyboard to bring up the secret Dr. Doom character file. That will have the trailer in it.

I am scared for the film, and this one doesn't make me feel that much better, but this trailer is much better than the first. They even upgraded the font on those terrible '4' play-on-words (heh heh heh) that were interjected throughout the first preview. There are some cool looking moments in the trailer, particularly almost all of the new fiery Human Torch clips. Johnny jumping off the roof is great.

But for Frickin' Balls, DOOM's mouth DOES NOT MOVE when he talks!!!!! I thought this wasn't a mask--it's his own 'flesh'. Just a little chin-bobbing, that's all I asked....

Anyway, if you post this, here is me signing off:


Truly yours,


George Newman, U62

Readers Talkback
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  • March 28, 2005, 5:07 p.m. CST


    by [STARS]TyranT

    And no Venom yet then! Dunno much about Sandman though, but I wonder what they are gonna do about Harry in this one after he found the mask... Ty^

  • March 28, 2005, 5:18 p.m. CST

    Doctor Doom IS wearing a mask, you idiot

    by allnamesaretaken

    Look in the trailer, you clearly can see its a mask. Theres even a shot of the mask not on his head.

  • March 28, 2005, 5:21 p.m. CST

    This Is Cool News About Spidey 3

    by Barron34

    It's good that Thomas Hayden Church is playing Sandman. Raimi has made all the right choices with this franchise. Thankfully, we will not see the hack characters of Venom or Carnage onscreen, at least while Raimi reigns as overlord of the Spiderman franchise. I trust Raimi's judgement, and I am looking forward to this film. I think that the effects for the Sandman character will be quite cool, given the track record with the previous two films. Anyway, kudos to Raimi and his team for continuing to make the right choices for this franchise...

  • March 28, 2005, 5:22 p.m. CST

    Harry, I'm usually with you

    by Uncle_Les

    But I fuckin' DUG the "Flame on" and "Clobberin' time!" lines. Also, Doom looked groo-vay. I'm more stoked than ever. I really wasn't feeling it until now.

  • March 28, 2005, 5:23 p.m. CST

    While the ShoWest trailer does look better...

    by kintar0

    it still looks too "Ultimate" for this comic book geek. Where's the fucking Kirby?

  • March 28, 2005, 5:24 p.m. CST

    FF: Release the Corman version instead

    by Stallion_Cornell

    Or maybe even save your lunch money and make a sequel.

  • March 28, 2005, 5:25 p.m. CST

    Doom's Mask

    by boomstick81

    Well, it is a mask. It's a traditional Latverian mask. The rest of of his body is metal, except the face. There, you can't say you got nothing. Plus, I thought the trailer was cool. Johnny Strom jumping off the building and flamming on.... I literally screamed "holy shit!". That part was cool.

  • March 28, 2005, 5:28 p.m. CST


    by MimiRogers3rdNip

    Silly looking word really. Rolls off the tongue well, though.

  • March 28, 2005, 5:31 p.m. CST

    this already looks way better than x1

    by Mr Brownstone

    this trailer finally got me on their side. looks like a good time to me.

  • March 28, 2005, 5:33 p.m. CST

    F4 doesn't do jack.

    by Briannicus

    So I get to the screen with all the names swirling around and all that, press F4, maybe even multiple times, don't get jack, am I doing something wrong?

  • March 28, 2005, 5:35 p.m. CST

    You're talking outta yer ass Harry

    by Endeavor

    That ShoWest FF trailer was great. My only complaint is they don't have enough of Richards using his powers, as someone pointed out already... Maybe they haven't finished all the effects shots for him?

  • March 28, 2005, 5:38 p.m. CST


    by Mr Brownstone

    are you on a laptop? or maybe the button is assigned to some other task.

  • March 28, 2005, 5:39 p.m. CST

    watched it again and liked it better the second time.

    by Mr Brownstone

    it would be cool if they put out the Corman 4 with a multi-disc special edition of this one day.

  • March 28, 2005, 5:42 p.m. CST

    F4 button

    by Briannicus

    Well, I'm not on a laptop, I finally hit F4 and clicked on the actual FF logo and it brought me to a menu that had stuff like Von Doom Industries Intel and one that said security video, tried to play the security vid, but for some reason "Quick"time takes forever to load onto my comp.

  • March 28, 2005, 5:47 p.m. CST

    Direct link to new FF video....

    by Alexandra.DuPont

    I'm fairly sure this will negate one's need to navigate all that flash-site nonsense:

  • March 28, 2005, 5:48 p.m. CST

    Regarding The Fantastic Four

    by Barron34

    I am avioding the trailers so far. I want to see them in a theatre. That said, it sounds like they are depending on the Ultimates version of the FF. Let me be direct about this: the Ultimates version of ANYTHING sucks! All the Ulimates do is suck all of the substance out of classic Marvel characters and spit on their histories. The FF Ultimates are shallow, pointless exercises in empty style that do nothing for the characters. Any movie made about Marvel characters should try to remain truest to the most "classic" version of the characters. I am not talking about being a point-for-point re-creation of the oldest version of the characters; rather, I am talking about being true to the essence of the character and tapping into their entire history. The most successful Marvel movies have essentially done these things successfully: the X-Men flicks and the Spiderman flicks. It would be a crime and a waste to make a big-budget movie version of the FF that does not have a strong Kirby/Lee influence in it. To reiterate: the Ultimate versions suck, the original Lee/Kirby versions rule. Hopefully this movie is not too far off-target.

  • March 28, 2005, 5:53 p.m. CST

    Sandman..great news...Doom??? mmmm

    by jasper Stillwell

    Re: Spiderman, great news. I have no doubt that Raimi will have an angle on this, I can't beleive that for one minute that Raimi will not have 'a big idea' on how this character will play out cinematically...there is a reason for the choice here and I fully support that THC is perfect casting for this role. I can't wait for what's in store in the same way that I got excited when Al Molina was cast as Ock. Doom...mmmm...not so sure...McMahon has turned in sterling work in Nip/Tuck but I can't see that this will be the definitive Dr Doom that we've all been waiting for. Frank Langella, yes. Alan Rickman, yes. McMahon, no. I want to see Doom as ruler of Latveria declaring war on the world. I want to see the haughty, imperious Doom abiding by, and constricted by, his own implacable set of codes. This all seems such a waste in making one of THE great and memorable super-villains a 'reality'. Doom as industrialist? Please. Maybe we can hope for an FF sequel to be an improvement on the first, recast and with a script that we can ALL get behind? Sorry to be negative here but all I see so far is corporate 'bland out' and no real sense of adventure or invention. Which in the early 60s is what the FF was all about.

  • March 28, 2005, 5:54 p.m. CST


    by amrcanpoet

    Nice to know that the XF references will never die. Viva el Spooky!

  • March 28, 2005, 5:56 p.m. CST

    Alexandra's link.

    by Briannicus

    Doesn't seem to work, I get that lil broken link icon that Quicktime has. . .geez, all this headache for a flippin trailer, aint technology great?

  • March 28, 2005, 6:06 p.m. CST

    Anyone else notice this. . .

    by ranting_dude

    When the reporters have their mics out and asking questions, one person has a mic that reads "City." Thought that was funny. Anyway, I still feel the same about this movie, which is that it will rank down with Punisher and Daredevil. I just can't stand seeing Jake Wyler from Not Another Teen Movie in this flick. Or Jessica Alba. And Ion Guffard(however you spell it). This flick blows!

  • March 28, 2005, 6:08 p.m. CST

    sand in your crack!

    by Zardoz

    I knew the Churchmeister wasn't gonna play no stupid Venom! When I heard he was gonna be in the film the first thing I thought was "Sandman". Good choice for the actor and the character, both. I want to see the villains done chronologically as in the comics; next is The Lizard, then Kraven, then Mysterio, then The Vulture, then The Scorpion and maybe after all of them, maybe we'll see Venom. (Maybe) As to the FF, I've got a bad feeling about this; if they fuck it up there's gonna be Hell to pay...

  • SANDMAN: You are now talking about the original T-1000, the character that James Cameron ripped off, very much like George Locust...err...Lucas ripping off Dr. Doom with Darth Vader. Oh, don't act like you don't know, because you do, and now you know this to be true.

  • March 28, 2005, 6:12 p.m. CST

    Another, possibly better direct FF video link:

    by Alexandra.DuPont

    I suspect this one will work:

  • March 28, 2005, 6:14 p.m. CST

    Let me guess ...

    by riskebiz

    ... Spidey beats Sandman in the end with a fire hydrant/fire hose.

  • March 28, 2005, 6:23 p.m. CST

    You actually LIKED a McFarlane storyline?!?!

    by Logo Lou

    Christ Harry, can your image GET much worse?

  • March 28, 2005, 6:25 p.m. CST

    New link

    by Briannicus

    well, it works to a degree. . .see this is why I hate Quicktime, it works sometimes, but then again, other times you click to view something and it sits there preteneding like it's sending the info. BAH.

  • March 28, 2005, 6:29 p.m. CST

    "Lets not fight." "No, lets."

    by ranting_dude

    Ewww, that line sounded terrible. Also when Human Torch makes that "4" in the sky it looked like crap. Is it just me or when Doom and Thing are trading punches while falling wouldn't Thing's punches have some bass to it. You know, since he is a giant rock. At the end of the trailer you would think they would end some cool as hell shot, but instead they decide to go the funny route. It was just awful!!!

  • March 28, 2005, 6:41 p.m. CST

    MY IDIOT CORRECTION: I saw that it was a mask about 5 minutes a

    by George Newman

    I had assumed that since he was mutated like he was in the comic, then his 'mask' was going to has been part of the mutation too. ....I usually scoure the trailers frame-by-frame, but I suppose in my hurry to get the message to them I didnt look closely enough at the trailer to see the flashes of Victor looking at his mask on that stand or whatever. Sorry

  • March 28, 2005, 6:44 p.m. CST

    Well, people on both sides of the tracks need to be more even-ha

    by Ribbons

    The 'Supernova' reference is foolish, although it's probably one of those zeitgeist-y things where would-be elitists pick up on it and start bandying it about TalkBack. The space shuttle setting occupies about 1/8 of the trailer's running time, and really, how else did you expect that sequence to look? More "fun?" Easier said than done. I'm with Harry in the indifference towards Reed stretching down a building, however. Not terribly exciting stuff. Hopefully he uses his powers more creatively in the movie, but I'm sure they would have showed scenes like that if such was the case. As for the Doom character, I'm cool with him being an industrialist, I guess. I'm not really a big fan of the FF so maybe I'm not the person whose opinion matters on the subject. The character archetype is still analogous -- he's a power-hungry imperialist with delusions of grandeur. The business-world setting is just easier to buy for the unread, especially since little countries with crazy monarchs is a pretty sticky issue. If the hypothetical European dictator version of Doom launched an attack on the Fantastic Four and walked around in "traditional" armor or whatever the fuck, I somehow don't think Latveria would survive for 'Fantastic Four 2.' That said, the character arc is probably nothing we haven't seen before: man has everything, winds up with nothing, goes batshit crazy and homicidal in the process. That nonsense about Victor "always thinking he was a god" is the epitome of dialogue people "turn their brains off to enjoy," as the old saying goes. In other words, action movie gobbledegook that amounts to a hill of beans after 2 hours, 10 dollars and hundreds of calories. I know that Fantastic Four can be used as a sort of loose parable of families learning to exist harmoniously or something like that, which is why I'm thinking maybe there's still some value to this movie, but it does look a little dull. There's a missile going off, but really, does anyone think that anything's really at stake? Hell no. Eh well. Maybe the sequel will be better. A couple of quick comments: while Ben's voice does sound somnambulatory, Harry (if you're reading), I wouldn't say that Chiklis doesn't put "oompha" into his delivery of "It's Clobbering Time!" It's not a holler or anything (although he does say it to Johnny as well if the rumors are true, so maybe he'll scream there), but there's definitely some emotion behind the words. As for Johnny, well, it looks like the testimony from people who've read the script are correct and that he'll end up stealing the movie. Chris Evans was well-cast and a lot of the lines pay off really well ("Don't even think about it." "Never do."), although "Oh, you're hot" sounds like the understatement of the century. I still can't shake the feeling that this movie could have used more verve (Kirby is most recognized for this title for a reason). If there are sequels, they'll probably involve either the Negative Zone or Galactus, so hopefully those won't be opportunities lost.

  • March 28, 2005, 6:48 p.m. CST

    Sorry but still looks lame

    by Rupee88

    It looks better than Daredevil, but not by much. It just looks cheesy... I'm not saying I could do a better job, but it still looks sucky.

  • March 28, 2005, 6:59 p.m. CST


    by Ribbons

    The only thing this re-telling of the Fantastic Four and "Ultimate Fantastic Four" have in common is that the origin of Doom and the Fantastic Four are tied together. Otherwise, it's either following elements of the original series or abandoning both of them. Ironically (technically I guess that's incorrect, but I like saying "ironically"), the "Ultimate" world looks more Kirby-esque than this movie.

  • March 28, 2005, 7 p.m. CST

    There is something wrong with the way the 'It's globberin' time"

    by George Newman

    It looks like thing punches Doom way out of the window, but then you see that Thing goes out the window too! I think it's just a problem with the way it is edited--it looks more like run-jump-smash out of window moment, rather than a punch.

  • March 28, 2005, 7:03 p.m. CST

    By the way, good news with Sandman and 'Spidey 3'

    by Ribbons

    Seems like the easiest character to translate and should prove to lend some cool visuals. Although, and I never thought I'd say this, but I think it is indeed time for Hollywood to cool it with the comic book movies. Some of them have no business being movies (or comic books) in the first place and some of them are grossly underdeveloped.

  • March 28, 2005, 7:14 p.m. CST

    Quit your Bitchin people, it looked fine.

    by The Founder

    I'm a big F4 fan, and while I wan't apmed uped after seeing the footage, I will say that it looks good. I was skeptical like most here, and lord knows I'm still is, but we've all been thru this before, and know bashing a film before it's released is just plain wrong. Yeah in the beginning nothing I saw or heard about the f4 movies me or got me excited, but the trailer and this Showest fottage looks cool, and they are certainly a far step above the ist trailer we saw from x1. Boy of boy, I do hope most of you remember the tune that was being sung on this site about x1. Like how it was going to suck, how Wolverine's voice is to smooth, and so on and so on, and in the end it turned out good. I'm not saying f4 will be good, but judging from the footage and trailer it'll be at the least entertaining.

  • March 28, 2005, 7:15 p.m. CST

    Ugh, nasty looking

    by frankenchr1st

    The Thing looks AWFULLY wrong and the 'clobberin time' line sounded incredibly lame. Where is his 'brick' skin?!? ANd I bet they're gonna fixate on the talentless Alba boob-whore, instead of giving Reed his due. Johnny looked great though, but Mr Fantastic's elongated arm FX looked like it belonged in a 1980's flick, not 2005. Doom looked pathetic too. Will I ge there on opening day? Not a chance. This movie just reeks more than Daredevil did. They will never learn. The thing doesn't have to look human - that's the whole point - he doesn't! But he sure as hell doesn't look like a cross between Swamp Thing and a $2 used halloween mask, like he does here... What a shame. Blockbuster? Hahahaha

  • March 28, 2005, 7:20 p.m. CST

    honestly, i wasn't sold on the previous trailers...

    by SirBiatchReturns

    but this new trailer has me sold. This trailer was very well done. Those who bitch are entitled to their opinion, but i'd rather you hit yourself with a chair first and hopefully pass out. Why do people have to bitch and bitch? This is the Fantastic Four we're talking about, not Shakespeare or some shit. The trailer has way more going for it than not.

  • March 28, 2005, 7:25 p.m. CST

    Sandman and The Human Torch

    by Sean38

    Regarding Sandman, as soon as they cast THC that was a given. Great choice of villain. Great choice of actor. Sam the Man proves he's pretty much the only one adapting comic books into movies these days who knows what he's doing (though Rodriguez and Nolan may join the club, we'll see). As for the FF movie...I have mixed feelings. It's both better and worse than I thought it would be judging from the trailer. I will say they appear to have gotten The Human Torch correct. With all the tortured, morose super heroes out there it's nice to finally see a character who (like Dash in The Incredibles) seems genuinely thrilled to have his powers like any one of us would be. Maybe he can carry the movie.

  • March 28, 2005, 7:49 p.m. CST

    Are you kidding?

    by Uga

    That trailer was MUCH better than the first one. And by the way, just hit F4 a few times quickly to make it work.

  • March 28, 2005, 7:53 p.m. CST

    After The Incredibles (the new FF) and the return of Darth Vader

    by FrankDrebin

    I guess I'm just slow, because it took me forever to get that Jack-Jack is Franklin Richards (a meta-mutant).

  • March 28, 2005, 8:04 p.m. CST

    All the dangling storylines are starting to pile up, Claremont-s

    by FrankDrebin

    Curt Connors (Lizard?), John Jameson (Moonwolf?), Harry Osborn (Hobgoblin?), and now Sandman & the Black Cat? Toss in a robot spider-killer and you've got way too much going on. Still, I too have a good feeling about Church as Sandy.

  • March 28, 2005, 8:07 p.m. CST

    Wow... this looks like total crap!

    by Ivan_Mtl

    I didn't think it could be possible, but this movie may be even worse than I first imagined it to be. Awful trailer for an awful film.

  • March 28, 2005, 8:12 p.m. CST

    The Frightful Four

    by jasper Stillwell

    ...oh and while I'm on a massive whine here...I'm still not entirely jazzed up about Chiklis as Grimm. I always saw Ben to be cast as a Treat Williams-type actor (are there any of those type of guys still around??) with the voice fixed 'in the mix'. Chiklis just seems wrong for the part but about right for the rock-suit. Although perhaps I should just reserve full judgement until the film's release and stop bitching...but I DO side with the poster above. It's maybe nice for Avi Arad to be thinking of his retirement pension like this and getting in there while the going is good but perhaps it is time to reconsider some of these comic book to film adaptions. While I think the likes of a Luke Cage film has potential (in the right hands in the same fashion as Blade could be 'reinvented'...if only Spike Lee would sully his good self and let us have the comic book flick to end 'em all...) can we stomach a Ka-Zar adaption, or a Defenders movie or Omega the Unknown fer chrissakes?

  • March 28, 2005, 8:13 p.m. CST

    The FF trailer reminds me of

    by Mr_Furious

    the 21st century "Lost in Space." I hope I'm wrong.

  • March 28, 2005, 8:20 p.m. CST

    Amazing Spider-Man #18

    by FrankDrebin

    This was one of the comics that made me a Marvel zombie. DC's heroes were all square-jawed, no-nonsense, infallible, g-man types. But Marvel had this nervous, clumsy, penniless teen. (I hope I don't destroy this guy's bandwith by giving out this link.)

  • March 28, 2005, 8:30 p.m. CST

    DuPont comes through again

    by Right Bastard

    Thanks for always having the easy links for us! Still, the trailer didn't give me much confidence. I could be wrong, but it looks like FF's going to be an effects fest. I hope they don't leave out what made the X-men and Spiderman movies work: the characters and love of the story. At this point, looks like something I might catch at a matinee.

  • March 28, 2005, 8:34 p.m. CST

    Judging from the trailer, If you liked the X-men films you'll pr

    by Anlashok

    Of course that doesn't help me since I despise the x-men films. Luckily purist bastards like me have movies like Sin City to watch.

  • March 28, 2005, 8:37 p.m. CST

    Enter Sandman

    by Evil Chicken

    Nice. What a cool choice - even though I'd still love to see Bruce Campbell as Mysterio!

  • March 28, 2005, 9:35 p.m. CST

    It sure looks like the FF to me.

    by Jack Ryder

    There is nothing here that makes me worry about the film. That's no guaranty it'll be good, but the more I see, The more I like it. It's got the characters, It's got action, and it looks like it has FUN. You know, like the comics we grew up reading? Ever since you championed the whole Superman was sent to earth to become a hero so he could go back to krypton as their POWERLESS leader who's arch enemy is a secret Kryptonian C.I.A. agent, Lex Luthor. I find it hard to respect your opinion of Super-Hero movies.

  • March 28, 2005, 9:48 p.m. CST

    What does Sandman have that Venom doesn't?

    by krims0nknite

    Seriously... It's kinda stupid that everyone is hoping for Sandman and bashing a Venom movie. What the hell does Sandman have? He's a thug that can shape his body, and.. that's it. Whereas Venom is Spider-man's ultimate match in every way shape and form, and he can shape his body. So uh... What the hell. I wonder if the execs are going to cancel a venom movie now that they're doing sandman because the general public might be confused that two characters can form whatever shape they want. I sure fucking hope not.

  • March 28, 2005, 9:50 p.m. CST

    Looks great!

    by BAMF

    For the first time, I'm excited about this movie.

  • March 28, 2005, 9:52 p.m. CST

    Fantastic Four cast

    by one9deuce

    Everyone seems miscast except for Chris Evans. The problem with this movie is that it doesn't seem to have any sort of style. It doesn't look any different than one of the Lethal Weapon movies. I don't know if Sin City is going to suck (Robert Rodriguez hasn't done anything decent since Desperado IMHO), but at least he accomplished a unique look.

  • March 28, 2005, 10:22 p.m. CST


    by one9deuce

    If Sin City is in the top 15 box-office hits for the year, I would be shocked. My forcast: 50 Million or less. Then again, I didn't think The Lord of the Rings would do big box-office.

  • March 28, 2005, 10:28 p.m. CST

    The Venom advocates...

    by Stan the Bat

    ...should go watch the Loonatics parody again- the one with Buzz Bunny screaming, "I'm ExTREEEEEME!!!" That's Venom. Venom lacks the class of the first-generation Spiderman villains.

  • March 28, 2005, 10:29 p.m. CST

    Spidey & FF

    by nexxus7

    I'm going contrarian on this one. Sandman might be cool for old school fans, but I actually prefer the idea of Venom and Carnage -- i.e. a darker, scarier, grimer Spiderman story with some genuine chills and danger. Sandman, while IMO was always the scariest of the original SM villians because the bastich could basically be anywhere, smother you, slip through your fingers, etc., it's a little dated and camp when you've got a much more techsavvy audience these days. They'll have to update him somehow. But even then, you know where the story is going to end up. The basic question will be "how's SM gonna beat him". Whereas, if you had Venom and Carnage, SM might win, but in the process people could end up dead (Gwen Stacy/Black Cat), and he might practically have to sell his soul to come out of this one. But if the verdict is Sandman, I really think they will probably go the two villian route this time to up the pacing and action -- maybe bringing Lizard into the mix. Regardless, at this point the SM franchise is going to start looking a lot like the Batman franchise. FF. Okay, I'm holding out hope for this one. Yes, The Thing looks like a cross between orange ca-ca and a burn victim, not to mention he starts off shorter than Reed. Why they did not go CGI is absolutely beyond me. In certain respects that's what the audience expects and nearly demands these days -- not a rubber suit (but I'm sure the comeback was "Hulk was all CGI, and what did that do, balloon the budget is all. Get a low budget Rick Baker type in here". I guess they never saw Gollum, did they. You don't see Jackson calling Baker to do yet another Gorilla makeup job. Kong is gonna be all CGI. Alba is too young and squeaky, Reed is boring, and of course you expect The Torch to take up the slack because nothing else is working really. Doom. Don't even start. Now he's just your basic corporate meanie (ho-hum), rather than a meglomaniacle monarch (think Sadaam Hussein with super power and a super secret high-tech arsenal and an army kicks the Coalition's/UN's butt when they try to disarm him, and you've got what Doom should have been, even though I've never particularly cared for the character). Then there's the dialogue. Listen to it: "Reed, look at me." "I can't". Huh? This has all the trappings of a movie by committee. "Stay within budget... what's our opening week gonna be before word of mouth ... okay test audience didn't like it, pump up the marketing ... what's our merchandising tie in ... what's our percentage on these action figures ... just get me actors who will take $2 mill and sign for all three movies, yeah we'll deal with their agents later if this thing hits and we have to re-ne ... this is your EFX budget and not a dollar more, just use a lot of extreme long shots and dark lighting ... script? yeah, I'll take a look at a couple of pages, but then I've gotta get to lunch ... jst make sure it's in budget." Oh well. I'm taking the family anyway. Maybe it'll be good. Maybe it'll be Hulk.

  • March 28, 2005, 10:45 p.m. CST

    How many crappy lines can Johnny Storm pack into one trailer?

    by Boris the Blade

    1) Where are your ears? 2) That's gross 3) Is that a trick question? 4) Never do 5) Why thank you so are you... It's craptastic!

  • March 28, 2005, 10:49 p.m. CST

    Flint Marko, aka the SANDMAN

    by pencil-man

    Hey, rad news. But I don't think Raimi would make a criminal the main villain...I'm pretty sure he'll become Venom later in the movie...I'm convinced!

  • March 28, 2005, 10:58 p.m. CST

    that didn't look terrible

    by bluebottle

    but they should redub all of the things lines... he shounds shlike shes sthalking shfrom shinshide sha shbig shrubber shuit.

  • March 28, 2005, 10:59 p.m. CST

    that was an awful trailer

    by llephen

    and i still don't understand why people aren't pointing out the glaring oddness of having JESSICA ALBA as the invisible woman. Why can't they just have cast a woman with blond hair and blue eyes? they obviously were just going for the big audience, because all the little hip hop message boards are full of kids saying garbage like, "oh jessica alba is my #1 girl, she is so thick and sexy i like her ass omg". Better cast her in our movie somewhere. dye her hair and give her contacts if she doesn't fit a role.. we'll MAKE her fit. Click on her profile on that page, and tell me if that giant image in the background looks like a human being

  • March 28, 2005, 11 p.m. CST


    by llephen

    granted, she is hot. but hot does not equal a good casting choice.

  • March 28, 2005, 11:06 p.m. CST

    Yeah, but nexxus...

    by Stan the Bat

    ...the attempt to make Venom seem darker and more genuinely deadly is what seems forced and silly about the character to me. The tone of Venom's first appearance was like the part in any number of bad movies where the hero finds out they kilt his wife, they kilt his dog, they kilt his whole family, and he falls to his knees in the burning ruins of his home and screams NOOOO! and all the eleven-year-olds in the audience go, 'Wow- this is SERIOUS'. It's not- it's bad melodrama, and I find it harder to swallow in a comic book than a little campiness.

  • March 28, 2005, 11:08 p.m. CST

    re: "Where are your ears?"

    by Ribbons

    That's a line? Seems like a pretty legitimate question if you ask me.

  • March 28, 2005, 11:24 p.m. CST


    by Ribbons

    ...I will give you the "Is that a trick question?" one. Ugh. Good thing Ben doesn't have any ears to hear that clunker (or that one).

  • March 28, 2005, 11:33 p.m. CST

    Thomas HADEN Church

    by Roj Blake

    I'm going to keep pointing the proper spelling out.

  • March 28, 2005, 11:41 p.m. CST

    Look! Here comes the F4 hate bandwagon!

    by Grando

    Last call for all fanboys to jump aboard......

  • March 28, 2005, 11:47 p.m. CST

    "Never do"...

    by Stan the Bat

    I kind of liked that one. Okay, "No, let's" ranks right up there with the toad-struck-by-lightning debacle- I'll grant you that. I think it's fair to assume that this will not be a Very Special Motion Picture Event, nor will Oscars be awarded. But it might be a reasonably entertaining flick. I'm not above enjoying something like this...

  • March 29, 2005, 12:19 a.m. CST

    OMG that looked terrible but...

    by HavokJD

    the Johnny Storm stuff is semi redeemable. Maybe they should have just made the whole movie about him.

  • March 29, 2005, 12:19 a.m. CST

    YES!!!!! SANDMAN!!!!!!!!! YAY!

    by cherrycola

    Oh man oh man this is too fucking cool! God I hope they keep his green and black striped shirt with the brown pants and dont "update" him into some pretty boy metrosexual. SANDMAN RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • March 29, 2005, 12:21 a.m. CST

    I see some asshole found a way to stretch out the new talkback A

    by cherrycola

    Whoever you are....I give you the middle finger salute. fucktard.

  • March 29, 2005, 12:30 a.m. CST

    The FF trailer looks like a trailer for a turkey.

    by cherrycola

    I mean, it has dr. doom doing the typical baddie schtick: challenging the police to show how much of a bad ass he is. That was done in X-men. THEN, we have the thing flipping over cars with reckless abandon and ease. That was done in hellboy. I see hints of superman II also. I smell LXG mixed with a little bit of the avengers. Indeed, a potpourri of movie cliches poised to be one of the bombs of the year. WORD.

  • March 29, 2005, 12:31 a.m. CST

    "I really think they will probably go the two villian route this

    by Right Bastard

    Well, considering how SM#2 ended, you're probably correct. Sandman and Goblin. Actually, I just wish that they'd introduce the Venom costume, but not the character until the fourth movie. Also, beach scenes while Kirsten Dunst is still young & hot is a good thing.

  • March 29, 2005, 12:54 a.m. CST

    Damn. Is that...

    by Gilderoy

    Terry David Mulligan and that ass Brian Mulroney's son as reporters in the FF trailer?

  • March 29, 2005, 12:57 a.m. CST

    SANDMAN will be a great villain

    by Toxic Frog

    I hope this is true. Sandman is a very cool villain in the books. If the CG effects are good, this will be a real treat. Excellent choice for a bad guy, in my opinion.

  • March 29, 2005, 1:40 a.m. CST

    Harry relax a bit, dude. That trailer actually looks pretty good

    by Fish Tank


  • March 29, 2005, 2:06 a.m. CST

    Could some of the more seasoned comic fanboys give us young'ins

    by George Newman

    Nearly all of my Spider-man knowledge comes from the 90s cartoon. They introduced Hydro-man before Sandman. They're powers are pretty much the same, except opposite. Hahaha, I love contradictions like that that still get the point across. ......So Who is Sandman?

  • March 29, 2005, 2:08 a.m. CST

    I absolutely love when I mix up "they're" and "their".

    by George Newman

    *grumble grumble grumble*

  • March 29, 2005, 2:29 a.m. CST

    Not as Bad as I Expected

    by odysseus

    Yeah, the one-liners were weak -- hopefully we saw all of 'em in the trailer. Otherwise, it looks about on par with the X-Men trailers, which could bode well. Fingers crossed....

  • March 29, 2005, 2:34 a.m. CST

    "Oooohh you're hot!" "Yes, I am."

    by docfalken

    100% ball-sack suckage.

  • March 29, 2005, 2:39 a.m. CST

    Larry David as The Vulture

    by docfalken

    He's got the head for it.

  • March 29, 2005, 2:43 a.m. CST

    The Sandman Profile

    by docfalken

    William Baker was born and raised in a rough section of New York City. His father deserted him and his mother when he was 3 years old, leaving them impoverished. Baker learned to steal at an early age, and cheated and bluffed his way through public school. He excelled at football in high school, but ruined his chances for a legitimate career when he accepted money from a local gambling ring to purposefully lose an important game. Baker was found out and thrown off the team and expelled from school. He then found steady work as a henchman for a protection racket gang. At this point Baker adopted the name "Flint Marko." Marko became successful in the New York City underworld, but entertained thoughts of reforming to marry his girlfriend, Marcy Conroy. Arrested for a series of crimes, Marko was convicted and spent several years in solitary confinement growing increasingly hostile. Upon release, Mark discovered that Conroy had left him for a member of his gang named Vic Rollins. After exacting brutal revenge on Rollins, Marko embarked on a one-man crime wave throughout New York City. Eventually he was captured and imprisoned in the maximum security ward of Ryker's Island Prison, New York. After a short time, he escaped through an unguarded drainpipe, the knowledge of which he had purchased while in confinement. He attempted to travel south to start a new life. However, Marko was pursued by the F.B.I. as well as state and local police departments. Narrowly evading the law numerous times, he made his way down the East Coast. At one point, Marko found refuge in a military nuclear testing site near Savannah, Georgia. Marko was lying on a nearby beach when an experimental nuclear reactor's steam system exploded, bombarding him with a massive dose of radiation. After a short period of unconsciousness, Marko awoke to find that his body had weirdly taken on the properties of animated sand, and that he could transform himself into sand. Now able to elude the authorities with ease, the Sandman, as he now called himself, embarked on a career of criminal activity which brought him into conflict with Spider-Man, the Fantastic Four, the Hulk and many other superhumanly powerful crimefighters. The Sandman's criminal career recently came to an apparent end. To battle Spider-Man, he had joined forces with a superhumanly powered criminal named Hydro-Man who could transform his body into animated water. In a freak mishap, Sandman and Hydro-Man combined into a grotesque mud-like creature. The authorities subdued the mud creature, rendering it harmless. The remaining amount of mud was sent to the police's forensic laboratory in Manhattan. There, police scientists sought to anlyze the composition of the unusual mud, but determined with the instruments at their disposal that it was completely inanimate. It was decided to seal it in a container and dispose of it. Apparently as a delayed effect of some of the analytic procedures, the mud spontaneously separated back into the two criminals, who then burst free of their container. Hydro-Man quickly departed to unknown destinations. Sandman was so traumatized and humiliated by the experience that he renounced his criminal ambitions.

  • March 29, 2005, 2:55 a.m. CST

    HBO Tv movie of the week?

    by Fortunesfool

    Define Mediocre!

  • March 29, 2005, 3:42 a.m. CST

    The correct downloadable link

    by JacksonsBane

  • March 29, 2005, 4:01 a.m. CST

    Well I think it looks... FANTASTIC!!!

    by Regicidal_Maniac

    No really I do and I ABSOLUTELY HATE THESE COMIC CHARACTERS. I've always liked Spidey, Hulk, Bats & Supes (and enjoyed thoise films immensely) but I NEVER liked the F4 or Xmen (maybe one day I'll get around to checking out those xmen films) but this F4 film has got my butt on a seat. It looks FUN and really, what potential did these stupid, lamearse characters ever have to be great? They're rediculous, so just sit back and enjoy this preposterous but entertaining looking film.

  • March 29, 2005, 4:50 a.m. CST

    4 times the fantastic?

    by Monkey Butler

    That doesn't make sense. And I hope to God that the "where are your ears" line is out of context, because the delivery's pretty terrible (the way he says ears makes it sound retarded), although the line (to my non-fanboy/purist/comic reading mind) itself isn't all that bad. "Is that a trick question" makes just as much sense as "4 times the fantastic", and "flame on" and "it's clobbering time" don't sound as "cool" as they should. But despite all that, I thought the trailer was kinda cool. Not at all deep, but fun,like a Spider-man lite or something. Same sort of colour pallete too.

  • March 29, 2005, 4:58 a.m. CST


    by Trevor Goodchild

    Thing's suit bends and folds where the rubber gives not like rock at all. Should have at least been CG enhanced. This desperately wants the feel of Spiderman.

  • March 29, 2005, 5 a.m. CST

    Chinlund for Scorpion

    by Trevor Goodchild

    Karl Urban for Kraven And Eric Bana in the Oldboy remake.

  • March 29, 2005, 5:54 a.m. CST

    sandman never did it for me...

    by satansteve

    the same as hydro man, shapeshifting guys made of stuff are quite lame. someone (i forget who or where) sed that they should maybe do a kind of james bond opening where spidey takes on a minor villain (say, vulture, rhyno etc) and then theres the credits. id much prefer to see the goblin back or venom, someone marketable! ending spoiler: spidey superheats sandman til he turns to glass. doesnt do it 4 me gotta say. however im much more enthusiastic about fantastic 4 now, was never a big fan but this looks like itll be fun.

  • March 29, 2005, 6:27 a.m. CST

    The Sandman Profile - footnote

    by FrankDrebin

    What makes Sandman a good choice for the movie is that he's a little more complex than the usual bad guy. He grew up a street crimminal, but he's redeemable (hey, he's like the first rap star!). Back in the 80's, The Thing had his own comic, and Marko actually became friends with Grimm (sort of). Grimm grew up around bad influences like Marko did, and might have gotten into the thug life too if things had been different, so the two of them got along when they weren't hammering each other. And Marko just got tired of always losing to super-heroes and ending up wasting away in jail. Sandman's a Spidey villain first, but he was also part of what might be the most important storyline in the modern age of comics: Fantastic Four #35-50. That was the Lee/Kirby run that had Galactus, the Silver Surfer, Dr. Doom, the Inhumans, and the Frightful Four (with Sandman) all tag-teaming the FF at once. Among the many great sub-plots was the FF getting nuked, losing their powers, and having Daredevil help them pretend they hadn't so Doom wouldn't slaughter them all. It's required reading.

  • March 29, 2005, 7:41 a.m. CST

    it just isnt exciting

    by SuperTooth

    it doesnt get me reved up, i hope this doesnt suck

  • March 29, 2005, 7:55 a.m. CST

    I second Nick Chinlund for Scorpion, 57th Larry David as Vulture

    by Regicidal_Maniac

    And I also suggest Topher Grace as Tobey Maguire's exact double and and replacement Peter Parker when Tobes drops out.

  • March 29, 2005, 8:23 a.m. CST

    What about Harry Osborn/The Green Goblin?

    by SoupDragon

    Wasn't a good part of 1 & 2 spent foreshadowing his eventual conflict with Peter? It seemed like this was going to be the central plot strand of the third film.

  • March 29, 2005, 8:39 a.m. CST

    by reignman79

    If they're having Sandman in spidey 3 they have to include Hydroman and have them merge into the mud monster in the end.

  • March 29, 2005, 9:15 a.m. CST

    Spider-Man 3 & Fantastic Four

    by KenKRK

    First of all, whoever said the Spidey franchise was leaving a lot of dangling plotlines was dead right! How are you going to introduce Curt Conners, John Jameson, and have Harry discover that his father was the Green Goblin, and have the next villain be. . . .Sandman!!Comic book movie franchises are very finite, and as it stands, no third film in a series has managed to do its predecessors justice. Now given the outstanding sand effects from the Mummy six years ago, I could definitely see the filmmakers doing great things with Sandman. But SANDMAN?!?!? Okay chief. As for Fantastic Four, I think the effects look great, the dialogue we've gotten so far seems fine to me. Especially Johnny. He's a cocky wisecracker, always has been. And I was more than impressed with his delivery of Flame On!, especially since he's supposed to be saying it while freefalling from a New York high rise. And I don't know how much better those fire effects for him could be, because I though they looked pretty damn good. The scene with him transforming in the chamber in Reed's lab looked like a straight comic frame. The invisibility effects for Sue look great as well, the way she fades, as well as projecting her force shields. Yes, we need more of Reed stretching, but we've heard for a while that the filmmakers have gone back to do more stuff with him, so hopefully there'll be plenty of stretchy goodness. I can at the very least hope it'll be a fun movie. What I've seen so far, personally doesn't look discouraging at all.

  • March 29, 2005, 9:28 a.m. CST

    by Masteel

    It looks awesome, I know you're comming from a different place conceptually Harry, but it looks like a fun movie. This looks like how your opinion was off on The Punisher, as compared to favorable public reaction to the movie. Don't tear down the FF4 like you did the Punisher.

  • March 29, 2005, 9:30 a.m. CST

    I think this trailer looks quite good

    by ChorleyFM

    Not great, but I think that it looks like it will make a lot of money. Lowest Common Denominator.

  • March 29, 2005, 9:47 a.m. CST

    We all talk shit but I'm sure we'll all be at F4 opening weekend

    by Mr. Profit

    I am waiting for Harry to review it and say, OMG it's awesome. The same way he did for T3. Everyone's expectations are already so low, that if it's decent, we'll be saying "It was better than Daredevil"

  • March 29, 2005, 9:54 a.m. CST

    not bad... not a bad trailer at all...


    ... don't think it'll be Spidey or X-Men caliber, but maybe Blade II caliber. Oh, and they should just use the Captain Universe storyline for Spidey 3, cuz that was the balls. Oh, wait... I meant it sucked balls.

  • March 29, 2005, 9:54 a.m. CST

    The FF trailer didn't look bad, so the question is what did Marv

    by Atticus Finch

    Haarry is obviously hating on the FF and trying to influence his mindless drones to hate on it also for no really solid reason. The trailer looked fine. Maybe he hasn't gotten any "pwesents" from Avi in awhile.

  • March 29, 2005, 10:02 a.m. CST

    Church as Sandyman

    by Blanket-Man

    Well, it could be worse (Vulture, Chameleon, Rocket Racer...), but Sandman is waaaay down the list of my favorite Spidey villains. And isn't he as much an FF (as a Frightful Four member) or Hulk villain as Spidey? One good thing: Raimi can pretty much do whatever he wants with Sandy's origin/backstory and we fanboys won't care. There's nothing sacred about Flint Marko/William Baker's early years. Do what you will, Mr. Raimi! You've got a lot of sprucing up to do to make that character someone we might actually care about.

  • March 29, 2005, 10:09 a.m. CST

    TV CASUALTY, I agree about the Capt. Universe story

    by Blanket-Man

    But it was still miles ahead of any of the crap McFarlane spewed out as a Spidey writer. Harry, your fawning over a Toddy story is the biggest head-scratcher you've thrown out since the "Phil Collins is SO cool!" remark.

  • March 29, 2005, 10:34 a.m. CST

    So, then I guess that means we're getting a Sandman/Hydroman tea

    by screenplaywriter

    I STILL WANT FUCKING VENOM! Venom is Spider-Man's worst fear. He's like his id to his ego. His Hyde to his Jekyll. Venom is Spider-Man's darkside fleshed out only to take on the form and body of Eddie Brock. I mean Venom is the "go to" guy for "SPIDER-MAN 3." Sandman would just turn it into some generic Batman villian, or something. I mean sure you can come up with and imagine some pretty cool visuals in your head, but I mean he sounds to me like Clayface from "BATMAN." Like I said before Church belongs as Venom and Sam Rockwell belongs as Carnage.

  • March 29, 2005, 10:46 a.m. CST

    I don't get all the griping...

    by Childe Roland

    ...about "ultimizing" the FF for the movie. Every single comic book-based film adaptation to date has somehow "ultimized" the source material (using that term to mean changing/updating for a modern audience to abridge years of comic continuity). Superman did it. Batman did it. X-Men definitely did it (Wolverine predates Iceman, not to mention Beast and Angel?). And Spider-Man did it (where the hell was Gwen Stacy and what's up with the web shooters?). And none of those first outings were bad movies. It looks like Sin City might be the first pure comic-to-film adaptation, and it may just change the way Hollywood looks at comic book movies. But it hasn't yet, and for whiny comic fanboys to hold a movie they haven't seen to a standard that hasn't been established yet is just ridiculous. You sound like impossible to please little bitches. And the stuff you're bitching about doesn't even make sense in a fanboy geek context. FF is an origin movie. The Thing (who is a pilot and wouldn't be much above 6 feet in height) is going to be lumpy at first... just like he was in the comics. The Invisible Woman is going to be young, just like she was in the comics (remember they called her the Invisible Girl at first). Reed stretching down a building is unimpressive? What would you rather see him do in a trailer that has to showcase the powers of four other individuals? The lines aren't being read as you've always heard them in your head? Wah-wah-fucking-wah! The only legitimate bitch anybody has about this movie so far is the apparent treatment of Doom and, after seeing in this trailer that he still wears a mask, I'm more encouraged about even that than I was yesterday. But you all keep bitching if that's what's going to make you happy. Just don't do it opening night in the theater while I'm trying to watch the movie and determine if it's actually as cool as it looks now.

  • March 29, 2005, 10:47 a.m. CST


    by Childe Roland

    ...and the Sandman is a solid choice for a supporting villain in the next Spidey, but you can bet Raimi's going to tie up that Harry/Goblin thread before the end of the trilogy.

  • March 29, 2005, 11:07 a.m. CST


    by jericho1368

    Seriously, you people are like a bunch of tired, naggy old ladies who just complain about effing everything, George Lucas, Star Wars, na-ne-na-boo-hoo. That movie looks friggin FANTASTIC and it's gonna rock. All you whinny assholes, if you don't like the trailer, don't see it.

  • March 29, 2005, 11:33 a.m. CST

    You're Wrong About This, Harry...

    by Shut Up and Read

    They nailed the tone and give and take between the characters. Also, if you didn't get a chill when Ben utters "it's clobberin' time," then the quacks must've given you a metal heart to match that prisoner anklet you're wearing.

  • March 29, 2005, 12:13 p.m. CST


    by Trevor Goodchild

    Alright there ss. Just to caress myself, the James Bond idea was me. Nice to know someone appreciated it. What is everyone's problem with Venom exactly? Don't know the character myself so it's a genuine query. Like to see a contempory take on Mysterio. William Richter perhaps? Again though, a precredit villan cameo seems ideal to me, particularly Rhino-(Vincent D'onofrio) or Vulture(Micheal Berryman).

  • March 29, 2005, 12:19 p.m. CST

    Bakshi Spiderman

    by Trevor Goodchild

    Been watching the old sixties Spiderman on Bravo of a Saturday morning and saw an episode in which to diamond robbers are being persued by SM. One of them turns to the other and says "next time he swings low, throw a vibrator at him", and I swear to god they did just that. Spiderman then gets hit unconcious by a huge vibrator pumping as it flew through the air. Anyone else see this episode?

  • March 29, 2005, 12:53 p.m. CST

    I know it's lame and really pathetic when guys post their 'dream

    by George Newman

    They should really do the symbiote storyline the way the 90s cartoon did. The first half or 2/5s of the film should be Peter with the symbiote costume. Jameson gets the symbiote from the moon, crashes the ship on the brooklyn bridge or something and Peter gets it on his suit during the rescue. The symbiote then bonds with him and he loves the extra power boost. There could be some great inner struggles over power hate and corruption... Then he ditches the alien costume at the 55 minute mark. The costume goes to brock, who developed some hate-relationship with peter during some first half subplot. Action ensues, the end. .....The only real problem I find with this is keeping the story grounded in reality. I feel that Raimi has kept the previous movies pretty well grounded and a Venom story would be kind of tough, with some intergalactic living oozy spacebeing.

  • March 29, 2005, 12:53 p.m. CST


    by Mr Brownstone

    that mic the guys holding (at 01:08) that says 'city' is for a vancouver tv station called City TV, and the douche holding it is Terry David Mulligan, who for a while went by the acronyme TDM, which if you think about sounds like 'TEDIUM' probably the most apropriate pseudonym anyone has ever used. I frikkin hate that guy and so does everyone else in Canada.

  • March 29, 2005, 12:55 p.m. CST

    Can't help but chime in...

    by faesforce

    First of all, Sandman as the Spidey 3 villain. Just doesn't do it for me. I didn't want to see Venom either, just b/c the backstory to the symbiote and it's relation to Peter is so important to the origin of Venom. To excise all of that just to make him the villain cuz he's "cool" would be a shame (how would they explain the spider logo on Venom?) That said, Sandman just seems lame. His powers don't excite me. The character is basically just a thug. I have faith in Raimi and his team, in that so far they have delivered, and I'm sure they will in this case as well, but there are just better directions I think they could go. As for the FF trailer - I think it looks like its starting to shape up nicely. I'm reading a lot of the complaints about the one liners, from the same people who are purists and want it to be all Lee/Kirby. Go back and read those stories and read the dialog - it is exactly the same kind of banter being bandied about in this trailer, and just as "lame", if not more so. I think this film is going to be a nice companion to the films we've already got in the Spidey's and X-men. Every Marvel film we've had since Blade has been a treat, even if there were some missteps. There is stuff to like about Daredevil. There is stuff to like about Hulk. We're lucky that studios want to make these films for us. They can't be exactly like the comics. The odds are against these films in the first place, and none of them have been horrible.

  • March 29, 2005, 12:59 p.m. CST

    Will there be an Osborn/Marko connection?

    by Lone Fox

    In Byrne's Chapter One they were related. Could explain a team-up

  • March 29, 2005, 1:20 p.m. CST

    Sandman sounds good to me..

    by Thalya

    Looks like it should be good. And if anything, like faesforce says, he's just a thug character, so it would be a nice balance to have Evil!Harry as his boss and have these plot threads interweave. Another thing, I forget who mentioned it, but I think we might be breaking new ground as far as movie franchises go with this comicbook movie revolution: trilogies are even more thoroughly popular now, but with Harry Potter having the chance to go all the way to #7, why not have Spidey go to #6? Harry and Peter's Father/Son parallel thing that's been going on the past few movies could either nicely finish out this first trilogy (providing a nice thematic like Raimi's could be the Father/Son trilogy), or it could have the potential to be further drawn out (how? I dunno) Venom would be good, but only as a capper to the next trilogy (the Identity trilogy?). /// As for FF, no comment.

  • March 29, 2005, 1:21 p.m. CST

    well, that's a total anti-climax

    by Dragonfire

    so instead of Venom we get another [insert animal or element here] man. Great.

  • March 29, 2005, 1:36 p.m. CST


    by Trevor Goodchild

    Glad it's going to be a character that isn't a scientist of one kind or another that is transformed by an accident during an experiment. Slightly more hopeful about FF from this trailer. always nice to see the Marvel Universe expanding. I think my biggest let down is Doom. Although if this were to exsist in the same world as Ang Lee's Hulk, I really can't see The Thing putting up much of a fight in an altercation. I mean aren't these two supposed to be of equal standing?

  • March 29, 2005, 2:23 p.m. CST

    venom is spider-man, without the great responsibility

    by MiserableRainGod

    Venom is a great Spider-Man villain because of what he represents. He's got the great power, but he's pretty far off about the great responsibility. At his basest, he's what Spidey would be if Uncle Ben hadn't died. Spidey even envies him somewhat; his freedom to use the powers to do what he wants, and not what's right. Sure Venom is totally nuts, but that could be downplayed for the film. On film, Venom would be a visual feast, and he can be a damn scary villain; he'd make Spidey confront dark aspects of his own nature. Right up Sam's alley, I don't know why Sam hates the character so much. Much of the time in the comics, Venom is pretty lame, sure. But thats the writers' fault...there is a lot of potential for him as a character. Carnage has no such potential, he's just Venom to the nth degree, pointless and adolescent, and adding nothing to the comics or the Spider-Man mythos but more red hair. Carnage is worthless. ANyway, bring on Sandman (and a Goblin!)

  • March 29, 2005, 2:40 p.m. CST

    If the Fan 4 movie is half as exciting and technically saavy as

    by Spamgelus

    Ah, sarcasm. My only friend.

  • March 29, 2005, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Venom, The Sandman, F4, and Bruce Campbell

    by CmdrViimes

    Let me begin by saying that I'm a huge Venom/Carnage fan, and think that they would look great on film. Having said that, I don't think that you could either of them justice in just one movie - we need a subplot set up. I think Church is a great choice for the Sandman - bulk him up a little, slick back his hair, give him the green shirt, and let the special effects people go nuts. I have been underwhelmed by most of the Fantastic Four stuff I've seen - but I really liked this trailer! Admittedly, it was heavy on cheese (No, let's!) but come on! At the very least, it'll be entertaining (and I honestly did a small whoop of glee at Flame On!) Regarding the Man himself. Bruce Campbell - the man who defeated Spider-man (ok, Peter Parker) in the last film - needs to make an in costume appearence. Come on, Sam! let's have a post-title supervillian fight! Bruce as The Shocker! Who's with me!?

  • March 29, 2005, 5:18 p.m. CST

    FF and Spidey

    by jsm1978

    Doom likes like crap. They should have gone star wars style, gotten a big imposing guy, regardless of acting ability, then voiced it over with someone cool. Sandman should be interesting, but I've never considered him an A-list Spidey villain. There are betters they could have gone with instead.

  • March 29, 2005, 5:20 p.m. CST

    And I agree...

    by jsm1978

    Venom can be a great character. It's just when they tried to turn him into the "lethal protecter" that he became less interesting. Most good heroes have an opposite, and Venom is Spideys. But yes, Carnage sucks.

  • March 29, 2005, 7:42 p.m. CST

    terry david mulligan

    by The Data

    haha does it hurt to stretch terry?

  • March 29, 2005, 7:49 p.m. CST

    The Ultimate Movie Badass Tournament!!!!

    by CrackerJak

    Invitation to participate in Darkwing Productions own "Ultimate Movie Bada$$" Tournament! 64 sci-fi, horror and genre characters in an all out battle royal to determine the baddest movie character of all time. YOU decide who wins and who loses! Voting open now - until next Monday (4th of April.) One vote per person... Highlights of round 1 include: Wolverine vs. Predator, Superman vs. Mr. Incredible, Captain Kirk vs. Captain Picard, and...Jay vs. Silent Bob?!? To vote, go to, and to see the entire tournament matchups and outline, go to See you at the fights!

  • March 29, 2005, 8:28 p.m. CST

    Where were you people, pre-Raimi?

    by Immortal_Fish

    Didn't Cameron's treatment include both Sandman and Electro as teamup villains for the first flick? Wasn't there nearly as much griping over that as there was griping over the then-upcoming X-costumes? Personally, I love the character. My favorite of the Ditko era rogue's gallery. And considering the striped green shirt and brown pants, the costume wouldn't be a difficult stretch from 4-color to film. Well, that is if they don't go for the Charlie Brown inspired zigzag masked suit from the 70s (which I doubt). You people are sweet on Church for the role? He's a capable performer, but sorry... this character doesn't scream Church to me. Perhaps as the younger version of Vulture from the 90's cartoon, but not as Sandman. Keith David would have been my pick. Church isn't a palooka.

  • March 29, 2005, 8:53 p.m. CST

    Venom is crap and, thankfully, Sam Raimi knows it

    by Ivan_Mtl

    The Venom character/costume was just a lousy idea which sprang from a lousy series (Secret Wars) intended solely as a cheap gimmick to increase sales on the Spiderman title to the non-comic buying public. As far as I am concerned, the only villians deserving of an appearance in a future Spiderman film are those created by Steve Ditko and maybe one or two others by John Romita. Every other villian since has been completely derivative of these artist's work. I think Sam Raimi probably feels the same way and is aware that the general public only knows the villians from the 60's cartoon show. Face it, folks, the list of candidates really only consisted of Electro, the Vulture, Mysterio, the Scorpion, the Lizard, Sandman, the Rhino, the Spider Slayer, and possibly Kraven (Kingpin having already been used for DareDevil). Well, we now know who it is and I am delighted to see a villian that has such close ties to the Fantastic Four (my favorite comic book as a child) being chosen. At least it will give me an idea what a GOOD FF film might have looked like with Sam Raimi at the helm, rather than the festering turd that is being thrust upon us.

  • March 29, 2005, 9:23 p.m. CST

    Childe Roland

    by Ribbons

    I assume that your griping about griping about Reed's demonstrations of stretchiness was directed at either me or Harry since we're the only ones who I can think of who made a comment about his descent down that building face being unimpressive (although I didn't use that word, and there's an important difference). Well in any case, let me try to defend my opinion on the matter. For one, I really wish you wouldn't lump people into the category of being negative for negativity's sake. I said that people on BOTH sides of the tracks need to be more even-handed about this movie and while I'll admit, I looked back on my posts and I can see how they could be interpreted as giving off a negative vibe, that wasn't my intent. I am trying to be realistic about this movie, but I also desperately want to like it, and in fact, the more I think about it, the more enthusiastic I become about the trailer I watched yesterday afternoon. I think the Fantastic Four is in place, but it's especially important to see how they handled Doom; the cynic in me sort of suspects that he's just there to defeat without much bearing on the story itself. That would be disappointing. But other aspects of the movie look promising. The night fight should be cool as long as it's not too heavy on the wire effects, I think Johnny will be a fun character, I think the Thing looks fine. They probably have the family dynamics down pat. However, I defend my right to bitch about Reed stretching down a building. Is it impressive? I suppose it is from a technically standpoint. I just think there are more creative ways to utilize his power. Now those expectations may be unrealistic given the fact that technology is limited, but I never meant for it to be a highly critical comment in the first place. It was just an observation from my point of view. Anyways, I didn't want to give the wrong impression about where I stand on this movie, so, I hope that clears things up.

  • March 29, 2005, 10:28 p.m. CST

    Sandman is a great choice for a team up with the Goblin

    by andrew coleman

    Two movies in a row we've had scientists who turn into super villians, it's about time some baddies go after Spidey. Also Sandman isn't so huge that he can over shadow the Green Goblin. If they were to do six movies that would work perfectly, SP3 you have Sandman and Goblin and whatever else. SP4 Kraven and Lizard, SP5 Scorpion and Man Wolf with black suit spiderman SP6 Venom final showdown... nice

  • March 30, 2005, 11:44 a.m. CST


    by Childe Roland

    ...thank you for clarifying your position (I had lumped you in with a lot of other bitchers, although my post was more directed at Harry's opening volley against the film and some of the recurring gripes I read in these talkbacks). If you are warming up to the idea of the movie, then I applaud you. It's a step further than many people seem willing to go for a property they claim to care about. I agree wholeheartedly on the importance of Doom to the success or failure of the movie. And I admit that what I've seen and heard of Doom so far has me a little concerned (I'm not terribly familiar with his ultimate incarnation, but the idea of him being a mutate of any sort bugs me). However, everything else I've seen and heard about the movie and its other characters has left me feeling optimistic. Perhaps as the trailer suggests, one will be bad but four will be fantastic. It remains to be seen whether that is, indeed, the case and if the movie can still be good with that dynamic in place.

  • March 30, 2005, 1:09 p.m. CST

    only an idiot...

    by slone13

    ...would have thought Raimi would go with Venom or Carnage. He knows better. And only a moron would have WANTED to see Venom or Carnage in the first place.

  • March 31, 2005, 8:42 p.m. CST


    by Immortal_Fish

    This villain appeared in ish 4 of Spidey's original run. And you think the film versions have jumped the shark 3 installments in. using your logic, the source material went wrong in 1963.