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AICN COMICS! CAPTAIN AMERICA! DOC FRANKENSTEIN!! INTERVIEW WITH RAVEN GREGORY!!! AND MORE!!!
#39 | 2/09/05 | align=right> #3 |
Here we go with another AICN COMCIS column! I’m Ambush Bug , your host with the toast, bringing you another batch of reviews from your favorite @$$holes. This week we end the column with a special interview with Raven Gregory, creator of the horror comic book series, THE GIFT. But first, let’s see what’s in this week’s pull.
(Click title to go directly to the review)
THE BLACK PANTHER TPB
THE LEGEND OF GRIMJACK TPB & GRIMJACK: KILLER INSTINCT #1
THE WALKING DEAD #15
ELK’S RUN #1
CAPTAIN AMERICA #3
DOC FRANKENSTEIN #2
CHEAP SHOTS!
INTERVIEW WITH RAVEN GREGORY
THE BLACK PANTHER TPB
by Jack Kirby
Published by Marvel
Reviewed by Buzz Maverik
Artist Steve Ditko was reportedly horrified when an interviewer informed him that hippies viewed his DR. STRANGE artwork as psychedelia. Like Cartman on SOUTH PARK has said, "A hippie is the worst thing you can be."
Still, one wonders how Jack Kirby would or did react to similar information. On one hand, the King was a WW II vet and a man of his times, who is said to have complained when artist Dave Cockrum circulated a faux-THOR cover that depicted the Thunder God with a set of breasts.
On the other hand, so much of Jack Kirby's work was so trippy. You can chalk up such concepts as the Negative Zone, the Inhumans, Galactus, and the Silver Surfer to Kirby. The introduction of these kind of concepts virtually vanished from the Marvel Universe when Jack did.
Of course, the King created THE BLACK PANTHER, as well. The Wakandans weren't actually a lost civilization, but being unconquered, wealthy beyond belief, possessing futuristic technology, and lead by a super-being, they came pretty close. As T'Challa's creator, Jack could take him on a cosmic voyage if that's what he wanted.
This volume contains a short lived BLACK PANTHER series that the King did when he returned to Marvel in the mid-1970s. In many ways, I think Jack Kirby was a changed man by that time, professionally anyway. Personally, he seems like he was always a great guy and a bit of a genius. But he'd grown frustrated at Marvel by the end of the '60s due to what he felt was a lack of recognition for being co-creator of almost everything. Stan Lee, the other co-creator of almost everything, was comicdoms glamor boy and only real showman. I'm not going to get into the feud. Both these men are idols of mine.
Jack Kirby did what all comic pros do upon leaving Marvel. He went to DC. There he created The Fourth World books, all centering on Darkseid, Apokolips, and the New Gods. He created cool stuff like KAMANDI THE LAST BOY ON EARTH and THE DEMON. But the Fourth World flopped, although I would argue that it had the biggest influence on DC of anything to come out of the Bronze Age. Jack Kirby did what all comic pros do upon leaving DC. He went to Marvel.
Back at the House O' Ideas, the King took over CAPTAIN AMERICA & THE FALCON with the Mad Bomb storyline. It seemed almost outside the Marvel Universe, with our heroes squared off against a cabal that imagined themselves as Revolutionary War era British aristocrats out to take back the U.S. Conceptually, they vaguely pre-figured the Hellfire Club from THE X-MEN. The King also created THE ETERNALS, DEVIL DINOSAUR & MOON BOY, MACHINE MAN and did a 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY series. And he did this BLACK PANTHER book.
It's clear that Mr. Kirby was really done with the Marvel Universe by this time. This series, like his others, seems set apart. The Panther gets mixed up in a quest to recover a brass frog that was stolen from King Solomon's tomb. The object is a time machine that can bring menaces out of the past and future. T'Challa means to rid our time of a grey alien-like thing with destructive mental powers. We get glimpses of things from a truly bizarre future world.
This volume is a trip through the imagination. Kirby's artwork was supremely powerful, straight from the imagination. In some ways, the story slightly prefigures INDIANA JONES, but is far more, unintentionally ...psychedelic.
Sadly, even when these stories were originally published, they were out of touch. I am in the deepest awe of Jack Kirby as an artist, storyteller and conceptualizer...but in my opinion, he simply couldn't write. Editorial at Marvel had a problem with that, too, and by all accounts they weren't respectful enough until Stan stood up for Jack. But even as a 13 year old kid, I could tell that Jack Kirby was a greater talent than anyone else at Marvel at the time, but no writer.
That said, he could do character. His T'Challa is true nobility. The King made sure the Prince had a code of honor and morals that was uncommon even then. T'Challa is proud that his people are builders and scholars. He does not like to win through deceit and he is merciful to his enemies.
Buy this book for its beauty. Buy it to give your senses a powerful and positive shock. I want to thank Marvel for bringing out this volume as well as CAPTAIN AMERICA & THE FALCON: MADBOMB. I hope to be thanking them in the future for trades of DEVIL DINOSAUR & MOON BOY, THE ETERNALS and MACHINE MAN. While they're at it, how about reprinting those terrific JUNGLE ACTION stories by writer Don McGregor and artist Billy Graham, such as THE PANTHER'S RAGE and PANTHER vs. THE KLAN? All awesome stuff.
THE LEGEND OF GRIMJACK TPB
&
GRIMJACK: KILLER INSTINCT #1 (of 6)
Writer: John Ostrander
Artist: Tim Truman
Publisher: IDW Publishing
Reviewed by Dave Farabee
The first thing that’s cool about Grimjack is that he’s ugly.
And not that faux-ugly like recent depictions of Wolverine. You know, that “mildly rugged male model” version of ugly that’s actually attractive? No, this dude is ugly like Clint Eastwood. He’s well and good into middle age, his gaunt face suggests a guy who could stand to eat a Big Mac or three, there’s a white skunk stripe running down his scraggly mullet and a scar splitting his left eye, and the cigarette perpetually dangling from his mouth completes the image of a guy who’s not looking to have his poster hanging on any 12-year-old girl’s wall.
Luckily for adventure fans, “ugly” can also translate into “badass,” and that Grimjack most certainly is. An ‘80s indie creation of writer John Ostrander and artist Tim Truman, Grimjack – real name John Gaunt – is a gun-for-hire in the city of Cynosure. It’s the city where the multiverse meets, a hodgepodge of infinite cultures where some locales are relatively permanent, others fade in and out with time. Magic works some places, technology in others, and a canny merc like Grimjack carries a sword because blades are pretty much everywhere. He gives it a pretty good workout too – a place with that many cultures always has an underbelly with certain jobs that need doing…
THE LEGEND OF GRIMJACK is a reprint trade collecting Grimjack’s earliest appearances as a back-up series in Mike Grell’s space-pirate comic, STARSLAYER. As such, the chapters are on the short side at eight pages apiece, but Ostrander establishes Grimjack’s likeably cynical persona and the unusual workings of Cynosure at a crisp pace.
Take the opening two-parter, for instance: it sees Grimjack hired to track down nothing less than a god. This god is being sought by a devout priestess who’s magicked her way to Cynosure in desperation to find out why he’s abandoned his people even as invaders are slaughtering them. Bad news for the devout - turns out this particular god’s a mortal and a drunken sot. He’s just some lucky (or luckless) schmuck who stumbled into their dimension by mistake and found himself imbued with god-like powers. He couldn’t bear the ensuing responsibility, though, and bailed to Cynosure. To his credit, he at least became Grimjack’s drinking buddy, and that turns out to be enough for Grimjack to defend him when a rival god tries to off him – hey, you gotta stick by your drinkin’ pals!
But yeah, bit of a cynical edge to the series, though it’s got a swashbuckler vibrancy to it as well. A good deal of its atmosphere comes straight from artist Tim Truman, in his nascent stages here, but already exhibiting a talent for drawing exotic, lived-in environments. Truman’s textured realism calls to mind artists like Joe Kubert and every crack and crevice of Cynosure is as craggy and worn as Grimjack’s face. Truman’s also great with drawing really “geared up” characters – those hard-livin’ adventurers who’re armed to the teeth and who’ve used every dinged-up bit of equipment they’ve got strapped on. My only visual gripe is that the coloring is a little “eh.” It’s standard ‘80s coloring, but when you slap it on glossy paper it looks a bit garish.
Other stories in the trade include Grimjack tracking down a vampire who infected a pal with vampirism (“Then kill me, too. I don’t wanna be like this.” “You got it.”); helping train a contingent of other-dimensional cartoon animals to fend off the aggressors who’re slaughtering them (bizarre for being one of the opening stories, but funny); and teaming up with Grell’s lead character, Starslayer. The common theme throughout might feel a little overly familiar to genre fans – that of loyalty and friendship, even among lowly mercs – but Ostrander delivers it with enough nuance and innovation of setting that it’s easy to forgive.
In addition to the new bookend material – a fun few pages in which the reader “sees” through the eyes of a newcomer to Cynosure – this trade also features no less than three welcoming introductions from the original creative crew. They’re new-reader-friendly but definitely struck me as a special welcome to returning fans who’ve waited for the series’ return as it’s struggled through various legal tie-ups. I mention the intros because there’s a warmth and friendliness to them I’ve rarely seen in introductions. You can tell these guys are the closest of friends, that they adore working on this book, and that they’re truly thankful for the fan following it’s garnered. How else can you explain the fact that they devote almost a page just to the hilariously fannish question: “What kind of music should I listen to when reading GRIMJACK?”
Awesome.
But I liked the new material in GRIMJACK: KILLER INSTINCT even better. THE LEGEND OF GRIMJACK is ripe with promise, but it’s got a few kinks to work out. The new stuff, by contrast, is the work of the original creators with close to two additional decades of experience AND the addition of painterly coloring from the highly-regarded Lovern Kindzierski.
Plus, there’s swearin’ now! Seriously, the rawer language lends the series a bite that feels wholly appropriate to its amoral leanings. Speaking of which…
During the brutal, action-packed teaser, Grimjack’s actively working as a cop in Cynosure, but in a showdown with an old arch-enemy who Grimjack calls out with an imaginative “You pimp from hell! Face me!” events take an exceptionally bad turn. Especially for one of Grimjack’s friends. Net result: Grimjack bails on working for the law and hooks up with a government-sponsored black ops crew called the Gray Wolves. I wasn’t sure if this was actually a recap of events from the tail end of the original series or whether Ostrander just wanted to quickly maneuver his lead into a darker direction, but it works well enough. I will say my head was spinning a bit with all of the names, though. There’s a definite suggestion that political alliances get pretty twisty in Cynosure, and I’m actually looking forward to that aspect of the book.
In his intro to THE LEGEND OF GRIMJACK, Ostrander writes that he was inspired to create the character while hip-deep in reading Robert E. Howard, Raymond Chandler, and Dashiel Hammett - influences that couldn’t be clearer. In skill and amoral temperament, Grimjack’s definitely from the same school as Conan, and the set-up he finds himself in during an assassination gone awry absolutely speaks to the hardboiled detective tradition of manipulated heroes. Of course, Conan’s a bit more physically formidable than your average detective, and so to Grimjack. When the political up-and-comer he’s supposed to off turns out to be protected by wraiths, vampires, and zombie mercs, he’s actually enough of a badass that he just might be able to shoot and cut his way out of the mess!
Wonderfully pulpy violence ensues.
So, hey, I’m onboard this baby. I loved John Ostrander on DC books like SUICIDE SQUAD, HAWKWORLD, and THE SPECTRE in the ‘80s and 90’s, but I just wasn’t hip enough to plug into his original creations in those days.
Won’t be making that same mistake twice.
THE WALKING DEAD #15
Writer: Robert Kirkman
Artist: Charlie Adlard
Publisher: Image Comics
Reviewer: Ambush Bug
Wow!
Just…wow!
I simply love this series. I’ve come to appreciate the tastes of my partners in critical crime here at @$$hole HQ. If one of my fellow reviewers says something is good, I’m pretty sure it is. But the thing is, I can’t just read everything the other guys praise, so I have to pick and choose who I listen to and what to try on top of what I usually buy. On one particularly slow week, I found myself browsing through my comic store and came across THE WALKING DEAD TPB VOL 1. Remembering the landslide of praise heaped upon this series from fellow reviewer Dave F, I decided to pick it up. I had fought the urge in the past, “I don’t need to pick up another monthly comic.” I said to myself, “Self, I read enough books already. Besides, who can forget the last time I took Dave F’s advice when he said those things on the floor of the @$$hole bathroom were delicious raisins?” But I went against my better judgment and decided to buy the trade on a lark (and I didn’t even know my comic book store took larks for payment. Boy howdy, I can’t wait till lark season, so I can go get me a mess o’ them to trade in for comic books!). After ferociously devouring the first trade, I raced back to my store for the second one, then back again for issues #13 and 14. By that time, I was hooked and chomping at the bit like I was a zombie and the bit was human flesh in anticipation for the next issue.
THE WALKING DEAD takes every great aspect from every great zombie movie and incorporates, elaborates, and improves upon it. Set in a Romero-ian world, where the cause of the zombie menace is not as important as the survival of human kind, THE WALKING DEAD is simply a perfect horror comic.
Our hero is Rick, a reluctant leader, who wakes up from a coma in true 28 DAYS LATER fashion and goes on a quest for survival. Rick and a group of weary survivors travel across the country in search of a safe place to live away from the zombie plague. Eventually they come across a penitentiary and that’s where this current arc begins. Up to this point, this arc has established some new characters (former inmates of the prison) and had our survivors get accustomed to their new environment. It’s all build-up and in issue #15, that’s where the payoff begins.
The thing that sets this comic apart from other horror comics is that you actually want these characters to survive. You root for them to find that safe haven. And you feel bad when terrible things happen to them. This is a testament to Robert Kirkman’s powerful writing. Kirkman has not only birthed a world which provides scares and thrills, but he’s created a set of characters that one can be completely invested in.
Those of you who only know Kirkman from his work at Marvel don’t know what this man can really do. I’m not a big fan of Kirkman’s work at Marvel. His runs on CAPTAIN AMERICA and MARVEL TEAM-UP seemed like fluff to me; as if he wasn’t taking these established icons and their conventions seriously. Kirkman isn’t the only writer for Marvel who seems as if he’s shouting, “Looky here! I’m a’writin’ sooper heroes!” looking down on these characters and not really pushing them to their fullest potential. Instead, he seemed to be poking fun at an industry that takes enough scrutiny from the outside as it is. It’s disheartening that the same type of scrutiny is promoted from within by one of the biggest companies in the biz. THE WALKING DEAD doesn’t have that feel to it. It is a serious take on survival of the human spirit. If Kirkman’s Marvel work had an ounce of the integrity and craft as THE WALKING DEAD, I wouldn’t have criticism one of his Marvel work.
Issue #15 is a doozy. After the cliffhanger from last issue is resolved, Rick rides off to take care of some unfinished business, leaving the rest of the survivors to wipe out the remaining zombies scattered throughout the prison. And the ending? Let’s just say it’s a killer. I don’t want to spoil one bit of this book. It’s that damn good.
Charlie Adlard is another reason why this book should immediately go on your pull list. This guy’s got a cartoony style, but it doesn’t take away from the horror being depicted within the panels. Adlard gives painstaking detail to the faces of our survivors, while distinguishing the living from the dead by depicted the zombies with less detail and obscured features. This is a good looking comic. The perfect compliment to the fine writing.
If this book has a problem it is that it has a very large cast and the story isn’t very open to new readers. Some of the conflicts and plot points have been developing for issues and those who aren’t in the know wouldn’t be able to appreciate the scope of this fine saga Kirkman is creating. That’s not to say that you couldn’t follow what is going on, but to truly appreciate the intricacies of the story, I suggest you go back and read the first trade. I guarantee you’ll race out to get the second one and the two issues prior to this one like I did. Then take a look at THE WALKING DEAD #15. Like a snowball rolling down a never-ending mountainside, this story keeps on growing with intensity and scope with each issue.
So I guess, I should listen to my buddy Dave F a bit more. As long as it doesn’t have anything to do with delicious raisins, that is.
ELK’S RUN #1
Joshua Hale Fialkov: Writer
Noel Tuazon: Artist
Hoarse and Buggy Productions: Publisher
Vroom Socko: Ahead of the Curve
I’m a bit wary of writing early reviews for books, especially for really good ones. If there’s a really fun comic that’s made its way into my hands, but you can’t read it yourself, then what’s the point of talking it up? Well, because it’s just become available for pre-order in the latest Previews. And trust me; you’re going to want to order it.
Imagine a cross between Brian Vaughan’s RUNAWAYS and Patrick McGoohan’s THE PRISONER as written by Stephen King, and you’ve got the situation in the town of Elk’s Ridge, West Virginia. An ex-mining town, its citizens live a solitary life, venturing outside the city limits only when unavoidably necessary. This can be a problem for the teenage boys who live here, especially considering there are only two girls in town over the age of four. So late one night, several young men decide to head out of town, only to come across… well, that would be telling.
I’ve been quite impressed with Joshua Fialkov’s previous forays into the horror genre in WESTERN TALES OF TERROR. He is, after all, the man who gave us the glory that is the Zombie Indian. But I’m pleasantly amazed at his work here. While still a horror story, it’s tonally and stylistically different from his other work. And I’m digging it. Sure, I love Zombie Indians as much as the next guy, but what I really enjoy is the more suspenseful, atmospheric brand of frights showcased here.
Of course, much of the credit on the book’s atmosphere belongs to the artwork of Noel Tuazon. There’s a two-page spread near the end that’s magnificently horrific, and the final page is just plain shocking. But really, it’s Scott Keating’s colors that really blew me away. Had that spread been just in black and white, I doubt it would have been half as eerie.
This series is seriously creepy, and I can’t wait to see just where Fialkov and company are taking these characters. Hoarse and Buggy is quickly becoming an independent publisher that’s more than worth your time. Check them out for yourself, on page 306 of the latest edition of Previews, and then let your retailer know you want a copy.
CAPTAIN AMERICA #3
Writer: Ed Brubaker
Artist: Steve Epting (with Michael Lark)
Publisher: Marvel Comics
Reviewed by Dave Farabee
My favorite superhero book running, that’s what Ed Brubaker’s CAPTAIN AMERICA is.
Weird!
See, I’m not even that big a fan of Cap. But when Brubaker and artist Steve Epting give me such a pulse-pounding moment as Cap vaulting from a S.H.I.E.L.D. flying car to an A.I.M. hoverjet to take those beekeeper-suited bastards down hard…how can I not get in this guy’s court? Simply put, it’s one of the best action sequences of the year.
Look at the conviction with which Epting draws the classic S.H.I.E.L.D. flying car: CLICK HERE!
Let yer jaw drop at Cap’s aerial acrobatics as he makes the leap, Epting’s art balancing near photorealism with Neal Adams’ kineticism: CLICK HERE!
And here’s the real stunner…y’know those belt pouches Cap’s sporting these days? The same kinds of belt pouches that a lot of superheroes wear without ever using ‘em? Well Cap uses his! Check him out, slapping some kinda flash-bomb on the windshield of the A.I.M. ship and causing a bitchin’ crash landing! CLICK HERE!
Whew! If Epting doesn’t get the overdue stardom this year that Rags Morales got last year then there ain’t no justice. I’m literally in awe of the amount of detail he’s putting into this comic, and without falling into the photorealist trap of the art going stagnant (it’s what’s happened to poor Greg Land).
In the words of Wayne and Garth: “We’re not worthy!”
But Cap is. And though we’re only three issues into the run, I have a sneaking suspicion that the work Brubaker and Epting are putting into it will be remembered as a high water mark for the series.
As the issue kicks off, Cap and the S.H.I.E.L.D. crew are still hot on the trail of the WMD’s the seemingly-deceased Red Skull was planning to detonate to charge up Marvel’s ultimate McGuffin: the reality-shaping Cosmic Cube. They’ve shut down one of the devices in Manhattan, but two more exist – one in London, one in Paris – and the clock is ticking as the Skull’s agents prepare to set ‘em off as a twisted memorial to him. On top of that, a shadowy third party is operating in the background, offing allies of both Cap and the Skull, even as Cap himself is experiencing flashbacks to World War II that don’t jibe with his memories. It’s a fascinating mystery. Could the Skull’s death have actually provided the karmic energy to energize the Cosmic Cube? Has he found a way to manipulate reality from beyond the grave?
As the mystery builds and agents on both sides of the fence clash in truly suspenseful battles, my favorite scene ended up being a peaceful interlude in Paris. Cap’s in his civvies, taking a small breather as he strolls around the Eiffel Tower with S.H.I.E.L.D. agent Sharon Carter. He’s recalling his time fighting in France during the second World War, and in a moment of humanity that stands in glorious opposition to Mark Millar’s “You think this ‘A’ stands for France?!” in THE ULTIMATES, Cap dares to speak of his admiration for the French:
“I’ve seen a lot of combat… and I’d seen a lot before I got to France... But the savagery inflicted on these people. I never saw anything like it until we got to Buchenwald. That’s why it really galls me when I hear my own people dismissing the French as cowards. We’re talking about a group of people who never gave up fighting the Nazi occupation. Their country may have surrendered, but they didn’t…”
Thank you, Ed Brubaker! This is the Cap I grew up reading. Not the hands-wringing doubter we had for a few years post-9/11, not the thuggish orders-taker in THE ULTIMATES, but the guy who can be a soldier while still representing the best qualities of America…including charity to his brothers-in-arms. There’s more to the scene, including Michael Lark’s terrific art in the flashback sequences, but suffice to say, I found that it warranted the cover price in and of itself.
My only potential complaint with the issue is indeed a potential complaint. Brubaker’s playing this story as a high stakes thriller, and as such lives are seriously on the line and a few have already been lost. Some of these lives have even been “names,” notable good guys and notable bad guys, and I don’t know how to feel about that. On one level – yep, there’s no quicker way to indicate high stakes – but I also instinctively bristle when new creators on a title take out characters without having themselves brought anything new to the table. I’m still waiting to see how events play out, though, and the mere fact that the Cosmic Cube plays a part in this story makes even the most assured death suspect.
So until such time as any potential fears are validated, I’m dropping my highest recommendation on this book. It’s a slick, modern thriller with the best art you can imagine and a lead who’s both an icon and a human being struggling with one of the roughest cases of his career. Need further proof? Geez, just go read the entire thing online at Mile High Comics! Not quite the same as having it in your hands, but if it doesn’t entice you into giving the series a shot then nothing I say will.
DOC FRANKENSTEIN #2
Writer: The Wachowski Brothers
Artist: Steve Skroce
Publisher: Burlyman Entertainment
Reviewer: Ambush Bug
When I reviewed DOC FRANKENSTEIN #1 here, I told you all how this comic and the formation of The Wachowski Brother’s Burlyman Entertainment may be the start of a new breed of comic book for this generation. I sure hope so, because DOC FRANKENSTEIN is one of my new favorites and there needs to be more comics like it on the shelves. It’s the book I will always read first when I get home from the store and re-read when I’m done with the rest of the stuff I picked up. It’s that good. It’s that fun. It’s that better than any other adventure comic out there.
Remember the intensity you felt when you watched THE MATRIX for the first time? Sure there were conventions used from other movies, but you felt you were watching something fresh and innovative all the same. Well, I got that same feeling reading through the first two issues of this series. This series has a super powered immortal fighting a powerful legion of evildoers. It’s been done before. It’s just that the Wachowskis and artist Steve Skroce does it so damn right.
The thing that sets this title apart from the rest is that DOC FRANKENSTEIN is “cinematic.” But I’m not talking about the “cinematic” tone that Marvel keeps cramming down our throats where an issue goes by without seeing the title character or where the entire issue is dedicated to a slow build that never pays off and instead merely leads to the next issue of slow build. Nope. DOC FRANKENSTEIN is the name on the cover and he’s front and center in the issue too. He’s the star of this book; telling his story and kicking major @$$. In issue two, there is a quick flashback montage where the Doc talks about the threat of the “Men of God,” a religious sect that has deemed Doc Frankenstein’s existence unholy and dedicated its existence to wiping him off the face of the earth. They’ve tried their damndest through the years, destroying his hopes and dreams numerous times, but you can’t keep a good immortal monster down and the Doc keeps coming back. There’s no slow build here leading to no payoff. This issue has a quick introduction to the threat of the story, and then leaps headfirst into some heavy duty action.
And boy o boy, what action! Doc Fransentein pilots a jet fighter against an armada of bombers set to destroy his home. It’s one lonely pilot against an onslaught of forces and Doc slices through them like a bullet. Eventually, his plane is shot down, but that doesn’t stop the Doc from taking to the air, leaping from jet to jet, taking out the opposition with their own weapons. At the end of this book, you need a breather. A chance to compose yourself and let out an exasperated “Wow.” as you put the book down.
A major factor in the goodness that is DOC FRANKENSTEIN is Steve Skroce’s artwork. Like the Wachowskis, Skroce thinks and draws BIG in scope. The action doesn’t revolve around one punch or a singular action. So much is going on in the panels. You are doing yourself a huge disservice by quickly scanning the panels in this book. Take your time and look at every inch of these panels. Like Geof (how come comic guys can’t spell the name Jeff?) Darrow, another Burlyman contributor on the equally excellent SHAOLIN COWBOY, Skroce knows the importance of the panel and what goes in it. There are no shortcuts here. Skroce is outdoing himself with this issue which is better than the last.
DOC FRANKENSTEIN #1 was all about the spectacle of introducing the Doc as a major new character in comics. In issue two, we get to know this character a bit more and it keeps getting better. Pick up this series and give it a shot. If all comics were like this, I’d be a penniless, but happy man.
RUNAWAYS Vol. 3: THE GOOD DIE YOUNG (TPB) - Woohoo, the first issue of the relaunched RUNAWAYS series hits this week! I’ve read it! Review to come later, but the short version is that you love it long time! This here Cheap Shot’s really just to remind you that volume three of the original RUNAWAYS series (the final volume) also just arrived a week or two back, and you don’t have to’ve read it to get into the new stuff, but given that it’s the best Marvel series of the last decade…I dunno, maybe you should? And if the soft-sell doesn’t convince ya, click here for my biggest pimpin’ ever of the series in my review of the first trade. I can’t believe I tried to lure readers by playing up the sex appeal of the underage Goth girl, but we all have our crosses to bear… - Dave
LITTLE STAR #1 - Man, I don't know what sort of story I was expecting, but this wasn't it. Then again, it's an Andi Watson story, so I actually did expect, and got, greatness. This rumination on the nature of fatherhood amongst Gen X is charming, touching, and beautiful to look at. If you're an Andi Watson fan, you're probably already getting this. If, however, you've never read an Andi Watson comic in your life, then this is the perfect place to start. -- Vroom
CONCRETE: THE HUMAN DILEMMA #2 (of 6) - I don’t know a delicate way to put this: after nearly 20 years of comic celibacy…CONCRETE GETS LAID THIS ISSUE! Sorta. You pretty much gotta read it, but it’s some steamy stuff - a true fulfillment of the promise of “mature reader” comics. Plus a guy gets shot in the throat! Plus there’s a sketchbook of Chadwick’s art! And a shockingly believably faux-essay from a guy who collects Concrete-damaged memorabilia! Always an inspired and unpredictable read. - Dave
BREACH #2 - I have missed comics like this. It looks and feels old school, but shies away from being stale with crisp storytelling and wonderful panels. This is a damn fine book. Love the art. Reminds me of some of Don Heck or Steve Ditko’s best stuff. And the story ain’t half bad either. Breach is coming to terms with losing his life and becoming a walking talking human reactor. Sure, this would’ve been a better Captain Atom relaunch, but it’s still damn good stuff. This is the best series DC has put out in a while and worthy of support. Plus the bad guy introduced in this issue is cree-hee-hee-py! - Bug
FABLES #34 - Honest truth? While I think FABLES is about the best comic running most of the time, the “interlude” issues – flashback stories, most of ‘em - haven’t usually done much for me. This one’s a happy exception. Writer Willingham’s always got a talent for writing scoundrels, and this issue’s particular scoundrel is Jack (of beanstalk and giant-killer fame). He’s got a boatload of treasure and he’s bound and determined to finance a movie trilogy of his adventures in the LORD OF THE RINGS tradition. Shades of THE PLAYER and GET SHORTY as Hollywoood and the filmmaking process are spoofed, even as you can’t help but root for Jack in all his cutthroat style. And I think new player Jill (of “Jack and – ” fame) is another Fabletown cutie. The guest art? Solid, occasionally inspired stuff by David Hahn, echoing early Chris Sprouse in its clean-line crispness. - Dave
CAPTAIN AMERICA/FALCON #12 - Okay, Priest has officially lost me in this issue. I’ve always been a fan of his book, but this story line about Caps and Anti-Caps, MODOKs and Psuedo-MODOKs, Falcons and psycho-Falcons has become too tedious to follow. Maybe Priest will score next time, but this CAP/FALCON series so far has been a complete dud. On the other hand, new artist Greg Tocchini seems to be channeling Gene Colan in this issue. Photo-realism and manga seem to be the only ways artists go these days. It’s refreshing to see this artist parrot a legend like Colan. I’ll be watching this guy to see where his talented pencils take him. - Bug
GOTHAM CENTRAL #28 - First thing’s first: Marvel deserves to be the target of a holy jihad for stealing Ed Brubaker and Michael Lark from this book. Assholes! Now that that’s out of the way…all is not lost! Co-writer Greg Rucka kicks off a new storyline this issue, and though I always liked Brubaker’s GOTHY C. stories better, Rucka’s still a comfortable fit. He’s got series regulars Montoya and Allen in the spotlight, investigating a horrific burn-victim case resulting from the discovery of what might be a lair for one of Flash’s Rogues. There’s creepy CSI stuff and, best of all, from solicits I know that the pair are going to find their way to the Flash’s stomping grounds of Keystone City in the months to come. Lots of potential there, and artist Stefano Gaudiano gives me hope for the first time in months that this book might survive without defining artist, Lark.
Still and all: holy jihad on Marvel to begin midnight, next New Comic Wednesday. Mark your calendars. - Dave
YOUNG AVENGERS #1 - Let’s see. Slow pacing? Check. Lack of imagination and utilization of the Marvel Universe? Chicky-check. Disconcern and lack of respect to anything before Bendis came to Marvel? Checkeroonie. This is it, folks! According to the Marvel and Wizard Hype Machine (are these two distinguishable anymore?), this is the comic you’ve all been waiting for. And boy, does it deliver! The first eight – count em’ – eight pages is an edge-of-your-seat extravaganza with Jessica Jones, J. Jonah Jameson, and a cub reporter standing and talking about stuff other people did for panel after snore inducing panel. It isn’t until page eight that any actual super heroes show up. And it still isn’t the Young Avengers. It’s Captain America and Iron Man looking more like SNL’s Ambiguously Gay Duo the way the artists draws them wrapped in each others arms. More talking happens. And finally, our heroes show up to face…Teen Loki? No. The Apprentices of Evil? Nope. Ultron Jr.? Uh-uh. It’s just of bunch of faceless thugs taking a wedding party hostage in a church. Now that’s what I call taking advantage of the vast tapestry that is the Marvel U. Of course, Jessica and her cub reporter coincidentally happen to be at the church as the Young Avengers arrive. It’s lazily-written contrivances like these that make people scoff at comic books. Action ensues a bit. There’s a big reveal at the end that really isn’t that big. All in all, this book exemplifies everything wrong with the current state of Marvel comics. But hey, you’ve gotta buy it, right? Marvel told you it is the most anticipated, sold out, smash hit book of the year! Marvel and Wizard said it, so it’s gotta be good, right? Right? - Bug
INTERVIEW WITH RAVEN GREGORY
By Vroom Socko
One of the titles out this week is issue #10 of THE GIFT, a horror title from Image that I have championed several times in the past. With this issue, the first story arc is now concluded. As such, I thought it was a good time to have a chat with series creator Raven Gregory…
First of all, what were your parents like, and why would they name their child after an Edgar Allen Poe poem?
The story behind it is just way too damn long to get into, and if I told you then I'd have to kill you...so it's safer for both of us if no one knows.
How did you get started in comics?
Me and my buddies were getting drunk one night and some one said we should do a comic. Thus began my epic career of destroying my liver with as many different types of alcohol as I could consume. Not long after that I wrote everyone in comics about how to get into the field and the only person who wrote me back was an editor (Renae Geerlings) from Top Cow. We talked for months and she eventually took me under her wing and helped me get THE GIFT off the ground floor.
What was the impetus for THE GIFT?
Lot's of alcohol. But after I stopped, it was just this burning desire to tell a good story. A good modern take on the old horror comics I grew up reading. I wanted to be able to try and bring back that EC COMICS feel that I loved so much about those books of yesterday. That was the driving force.
For the benefit of the poor saps out there who have yet to read it, what is THE GIFT about?
The story of THE GIFT follows the journey's of the Ancient One. This mysterious being has these items, these "gifts" that have incredible powers that he gives to normal everyday people. So depending on what kind or who the character is kind of determines how the story plays out. But the "gifts" themselves almost have a monkey's paw effect in that just because these people are given this great power doesn't necessarily mean everything is going to turn out okay. The first arc of the series actually deals with a different character receiving a different "gift" each issue lulling the reader into thinking these are all stand alone stories...but looking a bit closer you'll start to see hints and clues laced throughout the series that shows there's a much bigger purpose to why the Ancient One is picking these certain people for these powers. And later on in the series when the characters begin to interact with each other you'll see that nothing has happened by chance and that this has all been a part of the Ancient One's master plan from the very beginning.
It's like the Twilight Zone on CRACK!
And for those of us who have been smokin' that crack like Pookie on a binge, what's on the horizon? So far, you've set up the Ancient One, then the demonic entities from issue #4, and in the recently released issue #10 a third entity is revealed. Just how vast a canvas are you planning on painting?
Is it Lord of the Rings big? No. But it still gets pretty big. The next arc (issues 11-14) reveals the secrets behind the Ancient One and why he has been doing what he's been doing. The arc after that deals with the repercussions of his actions and we start to see all the bearers from the previous issues return as his plan comes full circle. But if you've read issue ten you start to see that there are many other forces at work that may be manipulating the Ancient One from behind the scenes.
What's a typical writing day like for you? How do you go about structuring your story?
There is no usual writing day for me. There are some days when you can't get me away from the computer, and then there are nights when I wait till everyone has gone to sleep and then pound out on the computer. There are days I don't write anything other than productions notes and other stuff. The only thing that is completely set in stone is that I HAVE to finish at least one whole script per month. If I don't do that I start to get antsy and things just start to seem fucked up in general. It's like my internal clock starts screaming at me, or something.
As for structuring I like to keep things loose. I think in order to surprise the reader and keep them interested, you have to surprise yourself. Some times I'll have a set end or image in mind but mostly it's just the characters taking the story and just running with it. 
How often do you end up surprising yourself?
When I first started it was easier. But as I keep writing I keep trying to top my last one...so it gets more difficult...but it also gets more fun.
Image has your book, as well as THE WALKING DEAD, DC's HELLBLAZER just got made into a movie, Marvel can't seem to put out ESSENTIAL TOMB OF DRACULA volumes fast enough... why do you think horror comics are on such an upswing?
Because, unlike all other genres, we aren't limited in what we can do and where we can go with our stories. We have NO limits except making sure the reader cares about the characters. Because once you hear the scary music...someone’s about to bite the dust.
So where do you want to go with your book? More to the point, what do you want your readers to get out of it?
I can't say. What I can tell you is that THE GIFT is much deeper than it appears at first. There is a message that I want to convey, but it's not something that I want to force on people. You can read the stories and enjoy them for what they are...or you can choose the red pill and see how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Do you have plans for any other comics in you, or is THE GIFT your sole story focus for the time being?
THE WAKING is my next project that will be coming out either later this year or some time next year depending on production. It's a zombie story unlike any other. One of the most tragic and redeeming stories I have ever done. It's a four-issue mini.
Do you have any inclination to write in a different genre, perhaps writing a fantasy or even a superhero book?
As much as I love horror (THE DARKNESS and BLADE, I would love to write) getting to play with any of the Marvel/DC characters would be down right awesome. But my heart will always be in horror because it feels more real to me.
Finally, where do you see THE GIFT five years from now?
Hopefully, a movie. A finished series. I know how it ends. I'm writing issue 25 now and it should end around issue 30 something.
Well, I’m certainly looking forward to reading the whole story. Thanks for your time.
No problem. I really appreciate the support.
THE GIFT #10 is in stores now, along with a TPB collection of the first five issues. You can read the entire first issue at THE GIFT’s website, and issue #11 is now available for pre-order at finer comic shops everywhere.
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www.nickgibbons.com
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I'm such a loser.
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You heard me.
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I bought that Kirby/BlackPanther trade a week or so ago and blown away by visualy, you are correct, the writing is week, but the imagination involved in the stories and art more tham make up for it. Young Avengers i was somewhat suprised by, meaning it didn't suck as hard as I thought it would. And what is this like the fifth time Kang has fought himself? Ridiculous. Captain America sure is a great comic, plus he uses them pockets, something i've never seen Cable do in the Liefield days. Grimjack rocked my ass off, that was first exposure to it, bought the trade the same day i bought the Kirby/Panther trade and loved. And yes Walking Dead is one helluva comicbook.
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Feb 16, 2005 3:08:39 PM CST
Are you STILL complaining about that French joke in "Ultimates"?
by rev_skarekroe
I swear, when you have to politically correct about the French it's almost enough to make me start voting Republican.
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I liked Young Avengers for what it was, a smartly scripted, brilliantly drawn and fairly well concieved book. I didn't look at the hype, I looked at a writer whose work I have enjoyed on Gilmore Girls and The OC, and one hell of a fantastic artist, and I decided that I wanted to read the book. But then again I am a big fan of Bendis, so what the hell do I know. Also, the whole point about Ultimate Cap is that HE IS NOT THE 606 Cap, Bru's Cap has so far been class, but Millar derived a character to act in a way that he wanted the character to act. If he was doing the same thing to the 606 Cap I too would be pissed off, but it is the ultimate cap-there is a difference.
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it's 616, NOT 606, and the Gilmore Girls, and the O.C. both suck balls
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WALKING DEAD is one of my favorite titles right now. It's good to see that someone who is used to looking at comics with a more critical eye got sucked in just as quickly as I did. That first trade was some powerful mojo........I'll just say it; you guys were right. Wizard is officially a joke. I have read that magazine for years. You can feel the enthusiasm in the writing, and it was always a fun and sometimes informative read. BUT..in the last issue they had to go and recommend Catwoman on DVD. Man, there's a big fat line between love of the genre and complete dumb-assery. So long Wizard.
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...It's nice to see that Cap is acting the way he's supposed to... I've had a real issue with his recent portrayls as an asshole, obviously influenced by "Ultimates". He can be a charismatic leader & a badass... But he doesn't HAVE to be an outdated, jar-head asshole. So... Anyone heard about the Ghost Rider relaunch?
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Isn't Garth Ennis taking that on? I forget where I saw that. May have been in----wait for it-----Wizard.
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No. It won't. They need to drop Stefano Gaudiano yesterday. I thoroughly hate his style on this book. I found myself just reading captions and trying to avoid the art which is a terribly bad. Lark was the perfect artist for Gotham Central. They need someone similar. They are having the same problem over on Hellblazer. Marcelo Frusin was born for that title and Leonardo Manco's art is a big turn-off in comparison. Both artist's should be replaced pronto.
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Sorry yeah 616, I was thinking of the BBC Radio Five Live football phone in show 606. Anyway I like both the GG and the OC, just a question have you ever watched a full episode of either?
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I think I only picked up 2 issues last week, neither of them reviewed.
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"Thank you, Ed Brubaker! This is the Cap I grew up reading."______Really, Dave? I think the two of us are somewhat close in age (in our thirties) and I don't recall the Cap of the 70's and 80's spending any panel time propping up the French. Sure, the Steve Englehart Cap did some disillusioned hand-wringing about America, which we've seen resurface from time to time....but the vast majority of Cap stories have had only a hint of political overtones...if any at all, which is surprising considering who the character is and his early history. Most of the modern-era Cap has been more about death-rays, Adhesive X and the Cosmic Cube than Cap sticking up for the French. Nah...this isn't the Cap you grew up reading, Dave....but rather the same old 21st century Cap who's frequently been used as a progressive soapbox to scold Red Staters into the Proper Enlightened Way of Thinking, at least according to the lefties that glut the industry.____Let's take a look at that "inspiring" quote you lifted from the Cap book: "I
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the Cap I grew up reading always represented the best aspects of America, not the worst. There may not have been stories reminiscing on WWII battles, but the ideals were still always present. I would much rather see a hero wrapped in the American flag be sympathetic to victims of a war (even *shudder* the French -- not to take anything away from the Jewish victims of the war, but that's really not what Cap was talking about in that particular snippet of conversation), rather than being judgemental to those not brave enough to fight. And the Cap I grew up with was the Mark Gruenwald Cap, fighting Mother Night and the Sisters of Sin, Flag-Smasher and the Watchdogs, Scourge, Crossbones, the Serpent Society, and of course, the Red Skull. Cap's villains were much more symbolic back then. They didn't represent other countries as much as they represented the aspects of American society that were not so good. It was a great contrast pitting a symbol of what America can be against what it sadly often is.
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Ok, that was some sweet art on Captain America, but I am a total leftie and even I don't need to hear Cap waxing on about the valiant French in WW2. Plus, Sharon Carter? It just seems like great art but not engrossing story. I'll have to check out the whole issue online first. RE: Runaways: Yes, it was that recommendation that turned me on to my favorite comic, so thank you for that, Dave F. And as far as the Young Avengers, it was lame. Not as bad as Avengers Disassembled, but still weak. Good enough art, terrible story. Never have seen OC or Gilmore Girls, but YA is sorry. However, as far as ambiguous, Hulkling and Thor Boy (or whatever his name is) really seemed to be written as a couple. I'd rather have TPs of the uncollected parts of the latest Priest Black Panther than read any of that old stuff. As far as Kirby, I'd jump at New Gods, Forever People or Kamandi in TP form.
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Ambush Bug: Let me get this straight: we CAN'T judge "those not brave enough to fight" causing who-knows-how-many Allied soldiers to lose their lives, but we CAN cast judgement (albeit symbolically) upon "aspects of American society" the left finds troubling? Ah....got it now. Thanks for the clarification.
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Feb 16, 2005 5:51:47 PM CST
"Factors like the startling speed of their surrender, the collab
by voice o. reason
You seem to miss the distinction made between the French people during WW2, and the French government. The Resistance went on AFTER the Nazi occupied the country, and DeGaulle NEVER comtemplated surrender.
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Good lord, my spellling sucks today.
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He's not suggesting the French were brutalized in Buchenwald. His point was that he had never seen such mass atrocities visited upon *any* group of people as he did in France...until he got to a death camp, and realized how much worse it could get. He wasn't taking away from the seriousness of the camps or of the brutalization of the Jews. He was saying that other than those camps, what the Germans did in France was the worst he'd ever seen. Additionally, to suggest that it's only been recently that Americans considered the French cowards is a bit off the mark. I've been hearing about what cowards they were since the 70's. They've always been considered to be a bunch of ignorant simps who caved the minute Hitler pointed a gun at them. A lot of the time it's even been implied that the reason they gave in so easily as a country is that, deep down, they weren't the biggest fans of the jews either. In my entire life I don't recall anybody ever implying the French were of any use militarily whatsoever in the last 150 years or so. They were of no use in WWI or WWII, we had to save their asses in Korea and Vietnam, etc. That's the mentality I've always seen from grade school on, so no, it's not just because they had the good sense not to get involved in Bush's personal crusade. And as for the idea that Cap was fighting enemies that symbolically represented the aspects of American society that "the left" found to be problematic...yeah, good point. Those stupid, evil, dangerous liberals who think that racism, bigotry and fascism are a tad misguided really have done irreversable damage to the good ol' U.S. of A.
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Feb 16, 2005 6:33:03 PM CST
Thanky to you, b-mark, for misquoting me like a true talkbacker.
by ambush bug
I'm neither left or right, but thanks for assuming. I do know that the villains Cap fought in the Gru days represented things like racism and bigotry (the Skull, The Watchdogs), hypocrisy in the church (Mother Night), corruption in the government and secret shadow cabinets (Serpent Society, Scourge). THOSE are the "aspects of America" Cap was up against. I'm no flag-burner, nor am I a flag-waver, but those are definitely "aspects of America" that I wouldn't mind seeing Cap put the kibosh on.
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Feb 16, 2005 6:46:53 PM CST
one day there'll be a TB without politics...until then, IGNORE!
by realdoublej
Doc Frankenstein's an unexpected gem. But, with the Wachowskis responsible for the writing, i'm going to keep my estimations for the enevitable ending low. At the moment, it's very clever in the way they've taken the Monster from Shelley's book, the intelligent creature instead of the cigar-smoking Karloff dolt, and ran with the idea of how the world itself would respond to him over the span of his immortal life. I just worry it could end in a splooge of action and mumbo-jumbo that won't make too much sense......but it'll be pretty though *top marks for Skroce*
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Feb 16, 2005 7:06:22 PM CST
The Secret Empire / HYDRA / AIM / The Skeleton Crew Were Smashed
by buzz maverik
...Number 1 / Baron Stucker / Modok / The Red Skull escaped.
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2nd best line in The Ultimates, #1 one is "HULK WANT FREDDIE PRINZE JR!" I don't even care about Cap being preachy about the morality of war. I'm Canadian and I still thought that fucking French line was awesome.
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They're dirty whores are great. And don't get me started about the fries. Magnifique!
The good thing about Walking Dead is, starting a new issue is like rolling out of bed in the morning. I'm 99% sure something terrible is going to happen before it's all over, and I'm usually right. -
The whole business of the French resistance is so overblown and mythified it's pitiful. The French resistance involved an incredibly small number of people and they accomplished next to nothing. France has its stereotype FOR A REASON. Ed Brubaker can stick his PC bullshit where it belongs and keep it out of my comic books.
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Feb 16, 2005 9:40:07 PM CST
The reason the 'A stands for France' jokes gets complaints...
by jonquixote
...has nothing to do with the French or Political Correctness. It has to do with the fact that it's a stupid joke. For one, it's nonsensical (Why would an 'A' stand for France?) and for two it's obvious. It doesn't take much accumen to make a 'Cheese-eating surrender monkey' joke, everybody does it. It's easy. *** As for the general non-humorous sentiment regarding the French being cowards, again it's simple and easy. Racism usually is. The truth of the matter is that they got waxed in WWII - they contributed to the creation of a monster in the German War Machine following the Treaty of Versailles. They screwed up pretty royally. But characterizing an entire nation of individuals like that is a pretty reprehensible thing to do, and it does a great disservice to those who died and risked their lives in service to their country and its ideals - ideals, My American Cousins, that aren't all that different from the ones you like to trumpet. Y'know, like Freedom. And Tolerance. Bu yeah, the Vichy government was shitty and capitulating...can we think of an occupied government that hasn't been? Anyone? Anyone? *** As for French Anti-Semitism contributing to the capitulation, anybody who has spent any degree of time learning about WWII knows that the extent of the Nazi vendetta against the Jews didn't come to light until after the war was over. And, really, it takes a pretty thorough hatred to make an entire nation say 'Y'know, the whole autonomous country thing is great...but let's stick it to the Jews and surrender.' Of course, I suppose it's easy to view any country as Anti-Semetic in the wake of the Zion that was 30's and 40's America. Right? Still, it's safe to say that while Anti-Semitism and the Nazi approach to Jews was a topic of interest prior to and during WWII, it wasn't exactly a driving force when it came to foreign policy of just about any of the major players. *** And anybody who thinks that Cap was devoid of political messaging during the 70's and 80's, probably needed to read a little closer. I for one fondly remember the Serpent Society turning Reagan into a snake. When was it...around Iran-Contra? I guess we can add Mark Gruenwald to Bizarromark's List of Treachery. *** By the way, when did acknowledging the valor of WWII veterans in the wake of easy, racist slandering become a Liberal sentiment? I think the talkback here shows a lot more about Partisan leanings than an issue of Captain America. But then...we're all perfect, fair and balanced, and it's the *other guys* that work their fucked up agenda into everything. Right?
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Yup. Makes you sure feel good about bein' you, bein' American, don't it? That's a pretty damned good reason. The one that's actually the source of most stereotypes. *** Homework assignment: In 500 words or less (1000 for you, BM. I'm not cruel), try to reconcile the "cowardice" of the French People in the 20th Century with their military history over the previous 1000 years.
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"Yup. Makes you sure feel good about bein' you, bein' American, don't it? That's a pretty damned good reason."
Actually no, the real reason is how incredibly useless they've been militarily and how passive-agressive their government has been for the last 100 years.
"The one that's actually the source of most stereotypes."
Perhaps in your twisted Bizarro World, not in the real one.
" *** Homework assignment: In 500 words or less (1000 for you, BM. I'm not cruel), try to reconcile the "cowardice" of the French People in the 20th Century with their military history over the previous 1000 years."
The French Revolution/Napoleonic Era. It killed off nearly all French military officers worth a damn. That made the French military clueless, as there was no one to carry on the traditions. Then WWI finished them off as a military power by killing off an entire generation of young men, mostly via the hairbrained tactics that resulted from losing all those military minds a hundred years before. -
He'll be taking over on DAREDEVIL after Bendis leaves. You heard it here first.
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Feb 16, 2005 10:30:17 PM CST
"de Gaulle was propped up by the British and the Americans durin
by voice o. reason
You have NO FUCKING CLUE what you're talking about. Especially since the US recognized the Vichy regime as the official French government! Never lecture me on history again, you pompous right wing whore.
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I am no particular fan of France and French culture, but it is frankly very easy to criticize the French surrender to Germany in WW II from the distance of the safe haven of Fortress America. We in the US have two vast oceans between us and the rest of the world, a friendly nation to the north (Canada), and a relatively subservient client nation to the south (Mexico). The French had to deal with the Blitzkrieg and the entire Nazi war machine right on their own borders and in their own homeland. I think US hubris might be tempered a bit if we shared a border with Nazi Germany like the French did, instead of living in the relative safety of a country protected by the entire Atlantic Ocean on its eastern border. America has never really had to face modern warfare on its own soil in the 20th Century. The last major war on US soil was the Civil War, well over 125 years ago. We should not fall prey to hubris in this area, I think. Also, what about the Poles, the Czechs, etc? Should we criticize them as cowards for not stopping the relentless Nazi war machine? What about the millions of Russians who fought and died fighting the Nazis on their own soil? I think that we Americans would come off as nobler and better people if we had a little more humility and a lot less arrogance. We live in a great country and a great democracy. We should be able to be a bit more charitable to a people who had to deal with the total invasion of their home country by the massive Nazi War machine. The German army never even set foot in our own nation, or even bombed us terribly like they did the British during the Blitz. The Vichy Government was, of course, despicable, but I do not think that it is fair to hand wave away the French Resistance. While the Resistance was not significant militarily, it was significant in that it represented the anti-Fascist, pro-freedom element of the French people who suffered total invasion of their home country. Have a little sympathy. I pity any nation that had to face the Nazis directly. Instead of sympathy, we seem to have derision. This seems stupid and arrogant to me. Of course, the relevance of this to the modern war on terror is all debate-able; it is a very different time, and I am concerned that the French government is not energetic enough in its anti-terror policies, and is perhaps too open to the potential movements of Islamo-terrorists. But this seems a seperate matter from the WWII issue. It is just too easy to dismiss the French as cowards when we have never personally had to deal with that kind of invasion. I think that bashing France for capitulating in WW II is still just an easy target for we Americans who have had the good fortune to never really be invaded and attacked by an enemy nation in modern history. It is tragic that the 9/11 attack occurred and seems to have woken us from our slumber and our false belief that we are somehow impervious in the world. Hubris can be deadly when dealing with an enemy like these terrorists, because it can cloud our vision of ourselves and others and our ability to defend ourselves and democracy. Bashing France for their behavior during WW II seems to me to be an example of this kind of hubris and arrogance, and so I think it is dangerous. The Captain America quote in the review does seem to me to be a better reflection of the Captain America that I grew up reading in the 70s and 80s, and reflects the mind of a soldier that thinks as well as fights in defense of democracy world-wide. The Ultimates Cap just seems to be a dumb bully, and it is dangerous to be a dumb bully in the 21st Century world, I think.
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Fucking idiot.
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"By the way, when did acknowledging the valor of WWII veterans in the wake of easy, racist slandering become a Liberal sentiment?"___What in God's Green Earth are you talking about, Jon Q? I give some push-back to Dave's Cap review, another poster comes forward with a pretty good indictment of 20th century France (great stuff, lynxpro. You Francophiles should follow his example and site some specifics)....and you're gettin' all blinky on us, ala Herbert Lom in the "Pink Panther" movies. And what does the previous thousand years of France have to do with their conduct in the 20th century? It's like asking someone to think of all the nice things the guy who's just punched you in the eye did in his past. What does it matter? I guess I wasn't aware other countries were immune from hard criticism unless we could provide a complete 1000 year summation of their military history. What an absurd request.
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...they also fought much more fiercely against the AMERICANS in north Africa than they ever did against the Nazis.
Seems like the raving liberals on this board know as little of history as they do of politics and reality. -
Feb 16, 2005 10:50:31 PM CST
Only part of France surrendered to the Nazis, RickP66.
by voice o. reason
Surely I can't be the only fucker here with a history degree. I guess when it comes to WW2, everybody THINKS they're an expert.
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Feb 16, 2005 11:34:06 PM CST
The thing everybody who likes the "A for France" line forgets...
by sleazyg.
...is that the very next issue of THE ULTIMATES took it back. Somebody else (I think it was Samuel Fury) calls Cap out an asks what the "A for France" comment was all about. A slightly embarassed and chagrined Captain America then admits that yeah, it was a little over the top, but these things happen in the heat of battle. When the writer has even the person who said it admit it was a bit much, maybe there's something to be learned there. Or, y'know, you could keep being a jingoistic jagoff who overlooks the massive loss of civilian life that the French had to suffer at the hands of the Germans. They had to deal with shit the likes of which we've never seen in this country, and if their leaders are assholes, well...so are everybody else's. Yours, mine, *everybody's*. Just out of curiosity, BTW: why are the French so much more reviled today than, say, the Germans? Y'know, the ones who were Nazis 60 years ago and are still virulently racist? The ones who are now requiring their unemployed women accept jobs as prostitutes or else lose their unemployment benefits? What about the Japanese? The ones who bombed Pearl Harbor and are now kicking our asses in the economy? Why aren't we harder on the Spanish and the Italians, both of whom worked with the Nazis? What the fuck is wrong with you people? If you're gonna indiscriminately hate people based purely on where their parents gave birth, couldn't you at least pick the people who were the Bad Guys in the last major worldwide conflict instead of some of the victims? I guess the beautiful thing about ignorant bigotry and racism, though, is it doesn't have to make any sense.
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First, I'll promote groups.yahoo.com/group/theaholeinthewall. Join it and discuss all year round... Next, I think the scene in the Ultimates #12 was the rightwing Fury commenting positively about the France bash. He even said Hawkeye was cracking up about it, Hawkeye also being rightwing according to Millar himself. He basically said the Ultimates is the opposite of his beliefs, about majority right leaning people in the "machine" so to speak, and I admire him for writing them as people and not sterotypical redstate rednecks. I think arguing about France's cowardice and/or underground heroism is kind of moot as both sides probably have some points and nobody on this talkback was around during the living hell of WWII. Can't we all agree Runaways is awesome?
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Actually, your push-back seems largely directed against the French people, and Brubaker's allegedly leftist politics. But if you want to recoil from your bigoted, partisan post I can't say that I'd blame you.
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Feb 17, 2005 12:26:13 AM CST
Sorry everyone, but the A doesn't stand for France joke kicked a
by fantomex
You take one little joke too seriously and bitch about it like a woman on some talkback 6 months later. Get a life. France has lost just about every major conflict they've had in modern and not-so-modern history. AND YES, THE WORD 'FRANCE' DOESN'T START WITH THE LETTER 'A'. YOU ARE NOT THE FIRST PERSON TO DISCOVER THIS STARTLING FACT. Thats kinda the point of the joke. Low brow? Yeah. Although, if you don't like that you probably didn't like ARMY OF DARKNESS. Oh yes, I played THAT card. And people, people, try your best to remember that Captain America comes right out of World War II, so his perception of France MIGHT JUST BE A LITTLE biased.
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Feb 17, 2005 1:22:59 AM CST
SleazyG., Samuel Fury's line makes the original "France" line fu
by tall_boy
first of all, its a great splash page. Hitch rules all. Sure, splashes are overused, but splashes are usually overused for "wide shots", not "extreme closeups", like how that page is. The expression his face, the pointing, and the line of blood dribbling down his face just gives it a really bad ass feel. Of all the splash pages in Ultimates (and there are ALOT) I think thats one of my favourites. The fact that its a splash page, and Hitch's art, is why people remember it. (you don't see people still bitching over a year about the small pannel where the soliders kick the kid over, do ya?) Second of all, Fury's & Cap's bit recalls how fucked up the line is. I don't think its Millar apologizing, I think its meant to be a character moment when two guys are just talking about a funny joke they heard. It deflates the inherent stereotyping in the line, but the line is funny BECAUSE its such a bizzare and stereotypical thing to say. Ultimates is all about style, its not meant for "deep reading". It ain't Watchmen or Maus, thats for darn sure. I bought the hardcover (and I never do that after I've already read it) because it works as a single piece of self-contained entertainment, and the hardcover gives it that "big budget polish" feel. Bitching about a joke just kills the fun, because its so stupid and bizzare, its not meant to be taken seriously in the first place.
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that grimjack shit looks pretty damn sweet and the art from captain america made me want to check it out even though i havent been a huge cap fan in the past.i guess its business as usual in the talkbacks but its interesting to hear different takes on history nonetheless.well i took up some @-hole recomendations and bought the goon and the gift trades and have so far been pretty impressed. thanks guys! oh and i second the sentiment from irule to join the aholeinthewall!peace and chicken grease
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comes across as a cock sometimes. ill take regular marel U cap any day
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Oi effin' vey. Who knew that keying in on a moment of compassion from Marvel's equivalent of Superman would raise such a stir? That there would be any serious objections to Cap showing good will for a people with whom he's fought alongside within the last ten years of his experience? Read the entirety of the story and I think you'll see that Cap's compassion is hardly an infringement on his effectiveness as a soldier, patriot, adventurer, or superhero. And if it still raises your hackles, keep in mind that it's something like five pages in a thus-far 66-page story of total espionage bad-assery. Unclench. Enjoy. Drink in the finest art of Steve Epting's career.
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There were Frenchmen who supported the Resistance and Frenchmen who actively supported the Vichy government and worked hand-in-glove with the Nazis. Some of them risked their lives to protect Allied servicemen and others travelled to Berlin to defend it from the Russians. It'd be inaccurate to lambaste the entire country as cowards or heroes in either instance.
Although Cap's remarks about the level of brutality inflicted were weird. The Germans pretty much let the Vichy run the show and occupation was very soft compared to what the Russians went through.
And it's not whether Cap's remarks make him seem like a pussy but whether they're accurate sentiments in the first place. -
As far as I can see, most countries' ideal foreign policy to other nations is:
"Roll over and be my bitch.
If you don't, I'll just come over and fuck you twice as hard. " Fortunately, most countries can't actually implement that policy, which is when they start throwing tantrums. -
"But if you want to recoil from your bigoted, partisan post I can't say that I'd blame you."____"Bigoted"? How so, Jon? Does having a low view of France automatically qualify a guy as a bigot? My opinion is formed by a mountain of facts, with the sober and obvious understanding that not every individual who ever lived in France is worthless. When taking the historical evidence into consideration, France....meaning its elected leaders and the people who elected them, have serious failings and treacherous tendencies. I realize you'll shoot back with "SO'S AMERICA"...of which I would say that's your every right to believe...without me labeling you a "bigot". Last refuge of a guy out of arguments: Call your opponent a bigot. Nice move, Jon.
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"Actually, your push-back seems largely directed against the French people, and Brubaker's allegedly leftist politics."_____Jon, the actual line from my post was "I give some push-back to Dave's Cap review"....which (at least to me) covers the subject matter of the French people and Brubaker's status as writer. I was responding to the portion where Dave (not me) brings up the whole France angle. Oh...and Dave....I love the mock-surprise that people would disagree with you and Brubaker's pro-France scold. The world's just gone crazy, hasn't it? As far as Brubaker's "alleged" leftist politics, his stories and interviews make no secret of his disdain for Bush and fellow travelers....so I'm not pulling the charge out of thin air, here.
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...that you're the guy that brought it up in the first place.
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Feb 17, 2005 8:24:24 AM CST
"France has lost just about every major conflict they've had in
by voice o. reason
So I suppose you think the Germans won World War I.
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Feb 17, 2005 8:25:53 AM CST
"France has lost just about every major conflict they've had in
by voice o. reason
Aw, the "just about" clause keeps your statement accurate, yet pointedly decisive. Well played, Clerks...
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...I could give a shit less what Ultimate Captain America thinks about France. BECAUSE HE'S A FICTIONAL CHARACTER. As far as France goes, people seem to forget how fucked up France got during World War One. Give those people a break, already. They're right next door to Germany. You probably live in a country that's only been attacked twice since 1814.
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...Ennis doing could be very cool, ala "The Punisher". But I wish that Marvel's half-assed editorial crew would wake up & remember that the second, "Dan Ketch" Ghost Rider is still out and about, somewhere! Howard Mackie ressurected him in an issue of "Spider-Man" several years ago, and we haven't seen him since! Then Devin Grayson writes that crap-ass mini-series that inexplicably turns John Blaze (I guess he gave up seeking out his missing children!), now chafing in the role of a button-down accountant (?!?) back into a new, mute take on his original GR form, but with the spikes & chains of the second one! That series blew... And then we get NO GR action in comics again for another few years... And yet this character is still popular enough to warrant making TWO Marvel Legends figures, with a third (Vengeance) on the way, and the Nic Cage film shooting currently! Go figure... I guess they are too busy figuring out how many MORE books Wolverine can fit into a month...
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That's funny, 'cause half the time he sounds like an uptight, middleaged, semi-retarded, failed businessman propped into a position of power by his daddy's buddies. Or my grandfather, who's been dead for ten years.
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I think the Ultimates Captain America is a far more accurate portrayal of what the man would be like in a modern setting. He is "salty" for lack of a better word, and if any of you know people from that generation they were pretty no nonsense types. They also werent indoctrinated by liberal run schools that force fed them fruity PC idioms about possibly "offending" people. Also, hatred/disrespect for France is not some new phenom. I have a uncle who served in the war as a medic and in our coversations he has told me on several occasions that virtually everyone despised the French (not their women so much though^^). Patton's quote from above is not some anomaly, but rather the general consenus of the American and British fighting man. **********************************
Also, Captain's comments are completely wrong conceptually. France's occupation was extremely soft with the exception of a strongly enforced rationing of materials. The Vichy government fully supported Germany and was largely autonomous. -
Focusing in, once again, on "Cap's" words that the people of occupied France were "a group of people who never gave up fighting the Nazi occupation", I have to tell you that Brubaker either hasn't done his research, or is willfully bending history to suit whatever point he's trying to score. Military historian Victor Davis Hanson says this about occupied France: "Most Frenchmen either refused to resolutely fight the Germans or passively collaborated. The idea of a broad resistance was mostly a postwar Gallic nationalist myth. Those who spearheaded a few attacks on German occupiers were more likely led by Communists than by allied sympathizers, and thus fought in hope more of an eventual Soviet victory over the Nazis than an American one." Add this sorry fact to the much longer list, such as France's backstabbing of the colonists at the end of the American Revolution, becoming the first military foe of the United States (following the ratification of the Constitution), seeking to split our nation in two during the Civil War, accommodating the Soviet Union during the Cold War, quitting NATO in the 1960s, or their present day treachery regarding Iraq (such as French prime minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin announcing,
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I'm sorry, but when an effort to address a common and vulgar stereotype in a comic book brings out your cries of partisan hackery, I can only assume that your prejudices are very near and dear to you, BM. And while since I called you on your post, you've taken careful pains to point out that you mean to criticize only the French Government (oh and the people who 'elected' them - by the way, does applying the same logic to you, make you a torturer?), earlier your comments were focused on "The French". Y'know, the people *of* France. So you can dress up your prejudices all you like, but I think it's safe to say that when you're denigrating an entire ethnic population (making exception for a few, statistically insignificant individuals. Well, *now*.) you're gonna get called a bigot. *** As far as American's history of failings and treachery, well d'uh. I'm actually pretty apologetic for the US a lot of the time, calling out people who like to think their country is pristine, but recognizing that to expect any power to not act in its own best interest is pretty silly. Our countries are what they are, and very rarely do they find themselves with legitimate moral high-ground. However, I like to think that when I look at a Presidential Administration that empowered the CIA to overthrow a democratically elected government in South America, hiding behind the Truman Doctrine while really advancing the interests of powerful friends of the Pres, I can't really use that nugget of evidence to look the Eisenhower-voting Boise, Idaho and say that they obviously hate Democracy, like most Americans do. That, my friend, would be ignorant. Not unlike your comments about "the French."
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Feb 17, 2005 11:19:41 AM CST
now, now, let's all sit down and have some freedom fries with ma
by shigeru
Why isn't anybody bitching about Millar making Jarvis hot for Thor?? I'm sure there's some jokes in there having to do with the two of them and Thor's hammer. And oh yeah, that issue was superb. The end was great, perfectly done.
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Feb 17, 2005 11:24:25 AM CST
everyone in their 70s or older, please speak up, everyone else p
by homer sexual
Because, honestly, we are talking about comics, not France and especially not France in WW2. I would hazard a guess that no one here has experience with France back in the day, and most of us don't have experience with France in the modern day. Really, who cares about France? Just because they don't toe the USA line? So what? Talk about insecure! I found the "A for France" line amusing and accurate for Ultimate Cap, but really not relevant to modern times. Yes, France was against the Iraq war. Newsflash: Polls for at least the last couple months show a majority of Americans also opposed to Iraq war. Let's just move on and get back to comics. I'd like to say that I greatly prefer Diamondback as Cap's girlfriend to boring, boring Sharon Carter. Cap needs a wilder, badder woman. He doesn't need another dull blonde chick.
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The Resistance numbers list about 115,000 Armed soldiers deployed against German Security Forces. Historian John Keegan reports that the nature of the landscape in Western Europe made the actual scale of guerrilla warfare necessary for a full on military resistance almost impossible, but makes note that the "principal achievement of resistance...was psychological." Considering Hitler's full scale psychological warfare against the Germans following the blitzkreig was significant and malicious (Revenge! Revenge for Versailles!) that almost certainly shouldn't be discounted. Still some of the numbers I'm coming up with (150 officer assassinations in the first two thirds of 1242, interference with the railway network etc.) aren't insignificant. Be advised that using the "French Resistance" as basis for ethnic slurs means that you should also be prepared to denigrate the people of Holland and Belgium. Among others.
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Its always funny when comic writers try to retcon actual history. Bluring the lines between the real world and fictional work is kind of scary. Is Millar a partisan hack or simply an ego manic who thinks he can rewrite history?
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"oh and the people who 'elected' them - by the way, does applying the same logic to you, make you a torturer?"___Well, actually....yes....if you believe Bush is a torturer. Anyone who votes someone into office is implying that they agree with the guy's philosophies...however his opponents want to mischaracterize them. Similarly, the French government isn't an entity unto itself separated from its population. The governments elected reflect the dominant or popular sentiment of the populace. Oh....and could you please point out where I claimed I "mean to criticize only the French Government "? I just can't seem to find that claim.___Really, Jon....I fear your time spent around all of those barking moonbats on the Joe Q. political forums may be influencing you a bit.
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***Oh....and could you please point out where I claimed I "mean to criticize only the French Government "? I just can't seem to find that claim *** It would help if you actually quoted my entire sentence. You left out the "and", as well as everything following it. "France....meaning its elected leaders and the people who elected them, have serious failings". But thank you for again pointing out that your invective is against an ethnic group, not a political body. What was your issue with the word 'bigot' again? *** "...if you believe Bush is a torturer." Grey area, isn't it? Abu Gharib. Guantanamo. And yet there are some people who find excuses, apologies, justifications, spins, or the ability to deny. Of course there are also people couldn't care less about anything like that in the wake of the threat to society that is Gay Marriage. Or those that just don't want to risk their taxes going up and don't give a whit about anything else. Or those willing to make compromises because the chance to overturn Roe vs. Wade takes precedence for them over all else. Yeah, I think it's safe to say that it's pretty silly to define an individual by who he votes for. *** "I fear your time spent around all of those barking moonbats on the Joe Q. political forums " Well, you're probably right. Some Fox News should balance me right out though. Thanks Mark!
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"You do realize the term "fellow traveler" meant a Communist back in the day, right? Heh.."____(in the Dana Carvey "Johnny Carson" impression): "I did not know that."___You learn something new every week on the AICN talkback.
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"So it is very inaccurate to assert that the Bush Administration is alone in how it treats that group in the world " *** Yes. That would be an inaccurate assumption. Let's see if we can find somebody who made it and gang up on him or her.
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A lot of people died in the new issue of THE WALKING DEAD. And some got haircuts.
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OBVIOUSLY Captian America has memory implants! The question is, who from his rouges gallery would benefit by making him think the French sustained any kind of meaningful rebellion during WWII?
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That was the best comment in this entire Talkback.
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just got the walkig dead trade so im looking forward to catching up with all you guys raving about it. someone posted earlier(i dont remember and dont want to scroll through and find it) about jarvis having the hots for thor in ultimates 3.what shocked me more was the colossus/longshot thing in ultimate x-men! what the hell was that about?
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I only been reading the trades as my local comic shop ain't got The Walking Dead. But I highly recommend the first two trades is off the hook. So "Fuzzyjefe" who died in the latest issue, hopefully not my boy Rick. Out like Johnny Carson.
Booty! -
and Darth, welcome to the family yourownself. Booty Fett, I won't throw any spoilers, but don't you know by now that NO ONE is safe in that book? And that is ONE reason it's a fave. What helps is that the characters are so well-developed that when someone goes, it bothers you.
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...with my freshly arrived box of trades from amazon.com sitting at home!man, and the walking dead is among those trades! damn this day is gonna drag!
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Feb 17, 2005 4:47:34 PM CST
I Am A Millar Fan When He's Trying. When He Wrote The France Li
by buzz maverik
...trying too hard. You know what offends me? Bad writing offends the hell out of me, especially when it's done by good writers and especially when fans either don't know or don't care about the difference. Here's what's wrong with the France line: I could see Millar writing it. I could see him sitting at his word processor, engaged in the act of writing a good line. I didn't see Captain America or the situation. I saw a guy saying, "They'll eat this up." Millar's stupider fans praise the worst elements of THE ULTIMATES as being like a Bruckheimer movie or an Emmerich movie or an '80s movie where Ahnuldt made cool quips whenever he killed someone...as if this was writing to imitate. It was fun crap but try to suggest to the very same fans that comics are just fun crap and see what you get. I like Millar. I like his public persona and I like most of his writing. But another bad thing he did with that line is he played it both ways. He wrote a line he knew jinoistic American Idiots would cream themselves over and as a leftist citizen of the UK, he's both smirking and sneering at you for loving the line. He's making fun of you guys, and you deserve it!
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"Long time, no hello" as you americans love to say! Yes, I am 'having the nice day'... until I am reading so much posts about how you pretend not to love the great French nation. It is funny, because of course France is much-loved in the US &A, because we helped you win your freedom back in the history, and invented the French Fries you cannot seem to shove enough down your hungry throats. But I forgive you, because your education system is so, how you say, the crappy. My question to you cowboy-yankees is, apart from in that film Red Dawn (a remake of the superior French movie 'Le Matin Est Rouge Pourqouis-Pas Les Armes De La Soviets Arrive' of course), have you ever been invaded by a foreign power of superior force? Perhaps you would be saying the surrender a little quicker than you imagine,non? In my country we have an expression - it is simple to be the soldier when your poo-hole is on the sofa. Comprende?
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Feb 17, 2005 5:23:57 PM CST
'Le Matin Est Rouge Pourqouis-Pas Les Armes De La Soviets Arrive
by jonquixote
Can't...stop...laughing!
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(GASP!) Making FUN of us? I--I had no idea, Buzz! Having read some of Millar's profound political insights on his website, that newsflash of yours really turns my world upside down. Personally, I liked Cap kicking Banner in the face more than the infamous "A" line. I realize alot of you guys would have preferred that Cap down and tenderly embraced Banner and rocked him to sleep.....or gave him a supportive "hand up"....despite terrorizing New York City and killing 800 of its citizens.
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But he's also got a sense of humor, and I suspect he just thought it was a funny line coming from Ult. Cap. Who, btw, he could have easily made reflect his own politics (as Brubaker has apparently done), but instead decided to portray as the sort of super-soldier that would closely reflect of a WWII American mentality. It's also admirable that he did this while simultaneously making Cap a sympathetic and heroic character, rather than the jingoistic caricature he could easily have been. On the other hand, I'm not entirely sure I made any sense just then.
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Behold the havoc ye have wrought. Few are talking much beyond the Cap Caper, apart from some (justly deserved) praise for Walking Dead while ignoring others (deserving moreso -- Gift and Panther). Hell, skarekroe not only posted more than one time, but also posted more than one sentance in a single post! Surely, this is the seventh sign (or 'sine' as Vern might write). You just had to get political, din'cha? And don't say you didn't intend such an outcome. For all the claiming that some of you @$$holes are independant, TB'ers can see your true leanings through that veil. I challenge you people to collectively AVOID *any* mention of politik in your next article. Take a look at your last several articles pre-election and you tell me what the odds are.
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you aren't reading War and Peace. If any comic is meaningless fun crap its The Ultimates, and the line fit perfectly. More so because it was coming from Captain America, because his character is SUPPOSED to have outdated politics. Some comic reviewers have this obsession with finding the writers "hidden meaning" behind every line, as if the france quip was some insult to Red State Americans. The only people he managed to insult are the snail eaters. It was funny. Get over it. Oh and buzz, FYI, when you want to try calling a group of fans stupid you probably shouldn't use the word "stupider".
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Millar doesn't "get" the Hulk. Very few at Marvel have understood the Hulk in the last several years. Although I didn't care for what Jones did, he understood the positive side to the character. It's funny that a guy touted as edgy and modern as Millar can't wrap his head around the idea that not all (super)heroes have to be the same, that the most unlikely character of all, the guy who should be the monster, who should be the villain, is in fact the hero. It's interesting that more than 40 years ago, two guys who were already about 40 years old understood that. Today, they'll tell you that the Hulk isn't a superhero, that he is a monster, that he is a killer. It makes everybody feel so much tougher. They read a comic book with killing so it makes 'em tough, in a way I can't follow but that's what they tell me without telling me. Ang Lee made a lousy movie, but one scene showed me that somebody, maybe one person who wrote that page, got the Hulk: the F117A is about to crash into a traffic heavy Golden Gate Bridge. The Hulk sees what is about to happen and jumps on the plane. He's not attacking. He's trying to save the people on the Bridge.
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Millar might be taking the piss here and there, but there isn't really much commentary in ULTIMATES. If there was, the Ultimate response to the Hulk attacking New York and killing 800 people would have been to invade Iraq.
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...the talkbacker with reading comprehension problems. You see, I used to phrase "...Millar's stupider fans..." to distinguish them from his less stupid or smart or smarter fans. I am a Mark Millar fan myself so I didn't want to lump myself and many others in with the fools. And no, most people don't think THE ULTIMATES is just fun crap. They will tell you that it's a new, modern, complex, hip, edgy version of the Avengers with intelligent dialogue, blah, blah, blah. Sometimes, it's all of those things. Sometimes, it's just fun crap. Sometimes, it's just crap.
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Feb 17, 2005 6:55:40 PM CST
JonQuixote "Ultimate response to the Hulk attacking New York and
by immortal_fish
I've avoided getting into this TB Hissy Fit(tm) until I read that. And now... Fish will smash. Scroll way back up to your first post on this subject. The one dated '2005-02-16 21:40:07' that'll show up nicely if you'll kindly plug it into the Find feature of your browser window. You had me with you, despite our polar political leanings, until about halfway through. You, sir, are a French apologist. It's okay. Inhale deeply and simply accept what you are. A French apologist. Now, there may be *very* compelling reasons to feel the way you do. As (presumedly on my part) an American, you have that right. Hell, in the rest of the free world, you may have that right too. Semantics aside, this is why you should feel no shame in being who you are. However, there is the matter of 'true' history that counters the latter half and many of the latter posts you've authored. The French haven't been our 'friends' ever. Sure, Presidents come and go, all claiming such, but countries eventually have interests that may or may not conflict. See how that works? It's what keeps us separate countries. Sure, there were resistance efforts on behalf of the French during WWII that would be a sin to ignore, as Cap clearly stated (with a bit of the broad brush, IMO). Yet these 'pockets' of thought in the French are few and far between, over the past pair of centuries, by and large. For example, some of us in America have no problem with the French. Perhaps some of the French have no problem with the U.S. today. That doesn't matter, though. Ultimately, it comes down to the majority of the populace and the officials they have elected. You see, countries don't have 'friends' they have *interests* -- meaning that if an 'ally' has opposing *interests* then they take what they find to be appropriate action. To the French, this has meant opposing any and all U.S. initiatives pre-dating the U.N. and (ab)using their veto privilege to impede U.S. action post-dating the U.N. History speaks for itself and I'm not making this up. Now, sure, there are lots of folks that align themselves with your way of thought, such as the TB'er who posted that fictional characters (e.g. Cap) aren't really thinking or saying anything of importance, oblivious to the fact that the writer behind such character is making hay via the outlet the same character provides. Perhaps you feel the same way, or perhaps you don't. Either way, I take umbrage with your U-Hulk comment. U-Banner having internal struggles akin to Bush 43's supposed internal struggles is a quantum leap in Deanology. Now, roll that on the tongue for a while, like a fine, French merlot.
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Feb 17, 2005 7:00:51 PM CST
"You claim France 'won' WWI?" Um...they held off Germany for ye
by voice o. reason
Idiot.
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.. is "dumber". His "dumber" fans. "Stupider" is not and has never been a real word (regardless of what dictionary.com may tell you). I'm not a grammar Nazi, but if you're going to try and call someone dumb, you should at least do so without maknig up words. I didn't like the Hulk killing 800 people either, but I chalked it up to this being ULTIMATE Hulk, instead of trying to make myself feel superior over "all those other" comic fans. The "stupider" ones. I'm not saying the Ultimates ISN'T well written/new/hip/edgy WHATEVER, but when you have a Norse God, a 80 year old World War 2 Vet, a... well a HULK, a man in an Iron suit, ETC fighting off shape shifting aliens from another dimensions (or whatever the hell is going on) its hard to see it as anything other than fun crap. And if Millar decides to through in a french insult, all the better.
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I find your ability to quote facts, but come to totally wrong conclusions about them amusing. However, my old professors would have flunked you on the spot.
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I'm pretty sure that wasn't an F117A he jumped off of in the movie, since that is a stealth bomber (the only plan I know) and would be in no way appropriate flying that low, let alone engaging the hulk in any way whatsoever. But maybe they pulled some movie magic.
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Feb 17, 2005 7:06:00 PM CST
"As (presumedly on my part) an American, you have that right."
by vroom socko
Just an FYI, Fish: JonQuixote's one of them Canadians. Don't they all speak French up there anyway?
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Feb 17, 2005 7:13:34 PM CST
Fantomex, "I'm pretty sure that wasn't an F117A he jumped off of
by immortal_fish
Eeesh. First of all, I think you meant to write 'jumped ON' yet forgive theminor nit. While I agree with you for the reasons you stated, can we admit that a certain level of disbelief should be applied? After all, for you to complain not only about the aircraft deployed (i.e. that which the common populace would not pick up on, ever) but also the manner in which it was deployed (i.e. altitude and method of engagement)... shouldn't you be more concerned about the basic principles of physics, meaning that the Hulk could never have a chance of deviating the pilot's course by simply pulling up when latched on back? It's a comic movie, guy. Let go.
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Interesting post. I can't help but feel you're ascribing quotes and arguments to me that I didn't make. For example, the stuff about The French are our friends...umm, I didn't say that. And while I won't recoil from the label "French Apologist", I think the closest I've come to making the statements you're addressing is a comment where I acknowledge a tendency to "apologize" for the US acting in its own best interests (and then extending that same 'courtesy' to France). So you do know that, as loquacious as I may be, I don't write *all* of the posts here, right? The brunt of my blathering here has been centred around this sentement you express: "Sure, there were resistance efforts on behalf of the French during WWII that would be a sin to ignore, as Cap clearly stated (with a bit of the broad brush, IMO)." As in, addressing the sterotype that the French are cowards, and that while it's an easy joke to fall back on, to react with vitriol when a writer actually attempts to redress that stereotype speeks of a greater, deeper bigotry that's kinda sick. http://www.beyondthepalace.com/graveyard/photos33/grave151extra.jpg Very few actually shot in the back, y'know? So while I found your post interesting, I hope the next one addresses what I've been talking about instead of stuff about Franco-American friendship that never came from my keyboard.
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Indeed. For what it's worth, I'm not one of those jovial, inebriated, flat-headed Canuck Frenchman. I'm a cold, abrasive, eeeBUL, (yet former) Parisian Frenchman. And rightward leaning. Now, since I've garnered the attention of an @$$hole, does this mean, at the very least, that my challenge will be entertained?
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Fine. And touche (pun). Your thoughts are not to be confused with the myriad mix of leftist thought in this post. I grant you that. Yabbut, what say you about the Deanology quip? For fear of breaking my own arm off I'm still patting myself on the back for that one.
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I liked the sound of "stupider", I used "stupider". I don't care if you have a problem with it. You're reaching, dude. Same with the Stealth Fighter. You're bugged because I don't remember the airplane in the Hulk? Get a life. As for THE ULTIMATES, with the Norse Gods and Iron Men, etc., if what you're saying is true, we'd just have the Avengers. That's why Ultimate Hulk is a killer, a cannibal and a rapist. That's why Ultimate Cap is Millar's imagining of a U.S. WW II soldier. I say imagining because it's a stereotype. That's why Ultimate Pym just didn't smack Jan, but tortured her. Fun crap is not the goal.
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The Deanology quip? I dunno. My statement was more a quip about American responses to attacks on New York rather than something that invited comparison between the psyches of Bush and Banner. But, y'know, cool. *** Put the wrong picture link in my last post. Hoping nobody notices. I don't know where that graveyard is from. The point stands...the execution, sloppy. *** Fantomex: "Stupider"? Ah, Dictionaries. What do they know? It warms my heart to see that somebody is out there fighting the good fight against colloquial English on an Aint-it-Cool talkback. Most of us here are wasting our energies, true, but you make it an art, my friend.
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Banner willfully deciding to become grey to destroy 800+ lives in NYC for personal gain is way synergetic and comparable to Bush 43 deciding to occupy Iraq for all the same reasons the left obviosuly implicates the man for doing so. Such is Deanology 101.
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...no clue what deanolgy means.
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...but when did grimjack comic come out?that looks sweet and i definately want to check it out
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Thanks to your post, at least we know it may mean a male pleasuring one's self. Thank you very much for providing fertile ground for the right to assume that the left is fed up with the right's presumed inability to meet them halfway on anything, despite at least my own scrawling here. Please do continue to revel in your fantasies of Ron Jeremy fellating Jacques Iraq if it makes you feel that much better. Get outthe vote, you ignorant and obvious tool.
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Feb 17, 2005 9:16:09 PM CST
I am thinking that perhaps the US & A hate The France so much
by luckypierre
because they secretly are in love with us, and want to put their yankkee pee-pees in our French butter-holes. Is like crazy romantic comedy, yes? Oh and my English chum Towelie says hello.
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I honestly have no idea what youre talking about. I havent participated in this political discussion so u dont know wether i lean left or right. What i said about sucking your own dick is a line from pulp fiction,you know since were at a movie website and all. i was just saying that while you were patting yourself on the back for your deanolgy quip i personally,and maybe a few others on the talkback have no clue what that means.but hey guess what i did vote! but i was trying to talk comics not politics so fuck you very much fish you cock smoker
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Look at this cock, that I smoketh. Look at it! I smoke this cock for you. YES! I do. I smoke this cock for you. I do. Look at me while I smoke it. Big and strong, yes, I do. Now, your argument, as it seems. Beeg it is! And yet so small. Perhaps, weight it carees?! Yet it does not. Yet I wait. ---------Look, must I fuck along with this or do you fucking yield to common american yield you stupid shit?!?!?!??!?!?!?!
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...who thinks immortal douche is posting unintelligable nonsense? What does"yield to common american yield you stupid shit?!?!?!??!?!?!?!" mean?! What part of 'I just came here to talk comics and dont give a fuck about your politics' did you not understand?
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Feb 17, 2005 9:59:53 PM CST
I love the Ultimates. It's the best work from the House Of Ideas
by noriko takaya
But yeah, when they finally corral Michael Bay into making the movie (oh please god please god), I hope they leave that "France" line out - it's jingoistic bullshit, and Cap never struck me as being that kind of guy. Still, one could say "heat of the moment" and all. Anyway, I've been going through the Ultimates 2 right now and so far it's been as good as the first. Can't wait 'till the next issue. More reviews of this book, please!
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...ive actually never been a huge avengers fan and always prefered the mutant books. Im actually liking new avengers better than ultimates personally. altho i do dig the hell out of samuel l. fury.
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I like America too but it's high time your country got the fuck over itself, you're just one of many, you're not THE ONE. I mean it get over yourselves, like right now you're thinking "fuck that Aussie jerk for telling US we're not THE ONE, who does he think he is?" Just chill out a bit and have a deep think about WHAT you think WHY you think it, THEN get back to me. Now that THAT is said I also LOVE The Walking Dead. This series is one of the few on the shelves where I can't wait to read the next issue.
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You criticize the French for supplying Saddam nuclear materials in 1981. That's all well and good, but let's not forget that it was the US who gave him chemical and biological weapons in the 1980s. It was the US (Rumsfeld and co. included) who proclaimed Saddam to the "great secularizer in the Middle East". They stated numerous times that they hoped he'd continue to spread his "influence" throughout the region (despite knowing he was a sociopath). It was the US who armed him to the teeth to murder as many Iranians and Kurds as he desired with greater ease and efficiency. So don't be so quick to point fingers my friend.
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TO BUZZ: I might just have to pick up that BLACK PANTHER trade. I just re-read the two-parter where the Panther's introduced in the FF and it was some of the best comics I've read all month. Coolest moment: after Panther's fought the FF and they become his honored guests, he pulls back his mask and just lights up a cigarette as he's giving them a tour of his badass Wakandan pad. Hilarious! And Stan put some pretty great dialogue into Ben Grimm's mouth: "There must be a lotta dough in Black Pantherin'!" I'm sure I'll miss that in the all-Kirby material, but for the sheer visual splendor, I think I gotta have it. On a side note, I was hugely impressed with Kirby's depiction of the Wakandans in those old FF issues. Not only do their visuals defy the racial stereotyping of many a Golden and Silver Age comic, but Kirby draws them with a resounding nobility and makes the Panther handsome enough that even the staunchest hetero guy might be heard to say, "That's a sharp-lookin' fella." ******* ABOUT YOUNG AVENGERS: I thought it was a passable, quite readable first issue. Biggest beef (aside from the fact that I couldn't tell if Hulk Jr. was a guy or a chick) is that I just don't like derivative heroes, and well...that's pretty much what the Young Avengers are. Better to introduce some truly original teen characters...you know, like in RUNAWAYS or this week's LIVEWIRES. Really enjoyed LIVEWIRES, by the way. Nice to see some progressive cyberpunky sci-fi instead of the usual superhero sci-fi with its '50s/'60s roots. ******* TO RISKEBIZ: No love for Stefano Gaudiano? Da fug?! C'mon, this guy's style is just a hop, skip and a jump from Lark's own and hardly some big departure. Personal taste is personal taste, but I just can't see such a visceral reaction toward a guy working the same tradition as his predecessor. ****** TO RENO NEVADA: So...you got some insider info on a post-Bendis DAREDEVIL or are you just pulling an Amazing Karnak? I think I'd dig a Brubaker DAREDEVIL. Unlike Bendis, the dude can write action. ****** TO IRULEALL: You wrote: "Can't we all agree Runaways is awesome?" The answer is yes. Yes we can. ****** TO HOMER SEXUAL: Hey, cut Sharon Carter some slack! Variety's the spice of life and I suspect she and Cap will just be having a fling at best, a little something to ease the tension. You know, a "debriefing." ****** TO DARTH KAL-EL: Both the GRIMJACK trade and the new GRIMJACK book came out two weeks back. My bad for not reviewing them earlier. I meant to, but I ended up spending days and days with the CAP review to insure maximum damage to this TalkBack. Mission acomplished! ***** TO AMBUSH BUG: Glad you dug WALKING DEAD, man. Now if I can just get you to read some manga from Junji Ito, my sequential art horror proselytizing will be complete. Partake of the delicious raisins, my friend...partake! Oh yeah, and good call on Greg Tocchini channeling Gene Colan in CAP/FALCON. I noticed the same quality when he was drawing THOR: SON OF ASGARD. The downside? The writing on that sucked too. Marvel's gotta hook this dude up with someone who can tell a damn story. ***** IN CLOSING, A MESSAGE TO EVERYONE: buy the new RUNAWAYS this week. It will make you happy.
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Wow has a lot of stuff been posted since I last checked in. Has anyone else noticed more and more political posts lately? Like every week some book riles people up somehow, whether a throwaway comment by Cap or a panel showing Bush with deveil horns or a halo or whateverthehell one reads into these things. I like reading some political debates because as someone leaning libertarian I often see both points, but this shit is getting ridonkulous. You know what? Comics kick ass. Runaways kicks ass. I ordered 30 more this week in the shop I manage because I believe in it so much. And that Wolverine kicked ass. Yeah, the dead mutant wasn't that big of a character, but it was still an awesome wrapup. Let's let the hate out, comic love in, join groups.yahoo.group/theaholeinthewall (that goes to you actual @$$holes as well) and please Voice O and Seethrough...admit you want to make out with each other...admit it, beeyotches! Lates.
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Like I said, I'm all for butchering the english language, but using the word "stupider" to call someone stupid was just too good for me to pass up. Buzz there is no reason to get defensive about your vocab or your recall of the Hulk, I tried to forget that movie too. The plane correction wasn't meant as a slight towards you, but you're forgiven for taking it as such in this TB climate. And the fact that the Hulk is a murderer and that Pym really is a freaking pyscho just proves my point that not only is this really fun crap, but its wonderful crap thats finally caught up with the rest of pop culture. You realize that pyscho killer movies are a big draw right? The Ultimates is Hollywood-turned-comic-101. Theres no undertones in the Ultimate Hulk character about challenging authority. This isn't that comic. I was so scared we were going to get a 6-issue-long "Trial of the Hulk" as Millar tries to say something about celebrity justice and the mass media. Anyway I'm getting sidetracked, the problem is everyone is getting caught up on whether or not Millars/Brubakers politics are right or wrong, when the focus really should be on the execution of those politics in the comic. I love Captain America when its political, I think thats really the only time the character ever works (I actually LIKED the last Captain America series, and would have loved to see that story continued) but Brubakers execution was lousy, and worse, it was lazy. You don't make a political point in comics by having Captain America give an out-of-character diatribe that isn't even remotely historically accurate. Hey, I hate how America is pissing off the French just to score points domistically. Its not just embarassing us abroad, its simply dangerous right now to play politics with our allies. And what REALLY pisses me off is everyone trying to downplay the French as our allies for the last 200+ years. Sure they've sometimes been useless, but at least they've been there. We're basically sending the message "Don't ally with America, cause we could turn around and bite you as soon as you disagree with us." And I think its the perfect thing to bring up in a Captain America comic. But Brubaker tried to take a cheap shot that just came off wrong. You can't just showhorn a little story about how great the french are in a story about Cosmic Cubes and Flying Cars. Someone teach the guy the meaning of the word "subtle". You may not like Ultimate Cap insulting the French, but the fact is that line fits Captain America *perfectly*. And if you think World War II vets (or ANY vets) hating the French is a "stereotype", I suggest you climb down from the ivory tower and actually talk to a few. I guess I'm not really being fair because Millar's line wasn't the LEAST bit subtle, but I think he was trying to be funny more than make any kind of political point, unlike Brubaker. IN CONCLUSION, I never judge a comic (or movie, or TV show) based on politics, only on execution. I always laughed at Conservatives who tried to rag on the West Wing, and I don't want to be one of those people.
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One last thing, those 20 or so Shanna comics that were sitting on the shelf at my local comic store last week? There all still there. Yeah, maybe he sold ALL of them and had to order 20 more.
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Hey....pretty nifty new look to this creaky old website. The new font is much easier on the eyes. Congrats to Harry for finally getting around to an upgrade. About time!
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Hey Dave, hilarious observations on the first meeting of T'challa and the F.F. It's been awhile since I've read my F.F. Marvel Masterworks reprints, and the part with T'Challa lighting up the cig was priceless. Smoking was simply so ubiqutious in that era that it just didn't seem to occur to Stan and Jack that someone who'd developed his body to the peak of human perfection wouldn't want to destroy his lungs with cigarettes. Reminds me of those old "I Love Lucy" episodes where characters will just light up a heater in mid conversation. Wakanda itself was certainly a wonder to beyold, made even better by the fact that the portrayal of the Wakandan nation was such a wonderful message of dignity and self-reliance. Granted, the whole Vibranium metal angle gave it a distinct sci-fi feel....but the fact that they created, maintained and defended their nation on their own was a timely, inspiring storyline for the Civil Rights era...and beyond. Making T'challa part of a foreign culture also spared us from the wince-inducing "jive talkin'" inflicted upon most of the "state side" black heroes in the years to come...making it all the more possible for the reader to recognize T'challa not as some kind of "Hey, Turkey!" minstrel show character, but as a dignified equal of the Fantastic Four.
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Feb 18, 2005 10:10:12 AM CST
I think it's premature to say Millar doesn't understand Hulk, Bu
by rev_skarekroe
I didn't care for Ultimate Hulk either, but I just need to keep in mind he's not supposed to be exactly like 616 Hulk. I understand Millar's writing a 616 Hulk mini later in the year, so I guess we'll see his real angle on the character then.
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No offence, voicebox...but the NAMBLA analogy isn't the most apt. Instead, how about if a right-leaning writer (we're obviously in fantasy-land here) had Cap parroting the administration's line about the rationale for invading Iraq? Judging from comments in some of Jon Q's previous posts, I don't think he and the rest of my left-leaning fellow fans would appreciate that....at all. The battle over what Captain America should think and say seems to mirror the current struggle amongst American citizens (and international onlookers) of defining what America is, its role in the world and what it stands for. The task of writing such character SYMBOLIZING America is NOT an enviable one, especially in such a highly-charged political climate. Therefore, special consideration should be given by writers whenever they are tempted to make Captain American their own partisan mouthpiece. It's certainly an easy trap to fall into, since the majority of both creators and readers of comic books seem to be left-leaning (at least the vocal ones), so it's clear that some writers get caught up in the "echo-chamber" and assume that ALL comic book readers share this sort of "default political outlook". However...maybe the day is dawning when an opposing worldview can be introduced to comic books to balance out the left-leaning focus of so many comic book titles.
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Feb 18, 2005 11:02:28 AM CST
"Why on earth do you think we should bend over backwards to be n
by bizarromark
Uh.....cuz Captain America (Ed Brubaker) said so?
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Feb 18, 2005 11:10:30 AM CST
Meanwhile our "ally" France is refusing to classify Hezbollah as
by the g-man
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/540242.html
"the French are well-aware of the terrorist element of the Hezbollah, but they are now focusing their efforts on the success of the upcoming Lebanese elections so they don't want to strain relations with the group, which is running as a political party in the upcoming vote."
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Feb 18, 2005 11:36:43 AM CST
"But what if the Millar or Brubaker went in a direction that you
by jonquixote
I'm a pretty liberal guy, but I always hate when Iron Man is written as a Liberal. That seems like a writer's fantasy to me - as though a gun-making, porche-driving, top tax bracket guy couldn't be a hero without disavowing all those things on some level. I like him much better when he's acting on an extremely pragmatic, individualistic level - like when he appropriated AIM technology and mind-wiped his secret identity from the entire world. That makes him far more interesting. I also suspect that there's a very good chance that Superman is pro-life. Agendas are one thing but they cannot supercede character or story, regardless of how I agree with them (note my many rants against Ney Reiber's preachy MK CAPTAIN AMERICA). As for the specific example you provided, I think that Cap has had sufficient experience with crooked, criminal or even just inept government officials - President #1, The Commission, The Red Skull as Secretary of State - to develop a healthy distrust. I'm pretty sure he'd be the first to suspect the hand of Arnim Zola in this one.
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Perhaps it's time to stop throwing invective at an ethnic group.
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Feb 18, 2005 11:49:24 AM CST
"Just because the French were on the 'winning side' of WWI doesn
by voice o. reason
I'm glad you paid all that money to go to UC, but you'd have been better off using some of it to buy a dictionary.
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The execution has nothing to do with whether or not you enjoy the comic. I don't blame conservatives who don't watch West Wing, but they embarass themselves when they try to say the show is poorly scripted. I think a Captain America who supports the invasion of Iraq would be interesting, and I think it could be executed well, but if its a 3 page lecture in an otherwise interesting story that has NOTHING to do with Iraq, well I'd think its just as stupid the latest issue. As for you voicebox5, your guilty of the same thing Brubaker is doing. His current feelings towards France cause him to adopt a revisionist history about the French Resistance in WW2. You're current feelings towards France cause you to adopt a revisionist history where the French haven't been our ally for more than 200 years. When you let your politics cloud reality, no one can take you seroiusly.
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Feb 18, 2005 12:18:29 PM CST
Since you guys have your own section now, Why don't you Post COM
by george newman
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I'm not arguing that Saddam was not a bad guy. I'm merely demonstrating that the US openly funded, armed, provided miltary intelligence, supported, backed, and encouraged his agression against Iran and the Kurds. Oh, and if the US was only using him for revenge against Iran, why is it that the US also sold Iran weapons during the same war? Iran-Contra ring a bell? The US also sold Iran arms through Israel. Once again it's easy to point at the French and claim they've been "irresponsible", but it's sadly just as easy to point at the US and say the exact same thing. There are many examples of atrocious and head scratching US foreign policy in recent years, especiallyin the Middle East/Muslim nations.
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Feb 18, 2005 1:10:16 PM CST
People on both sides of this fascinating debate make some good p
by fuzzyjefe
But it will all mean nothing when the zombie apocalypse comes. Of course, then we'll probably have one side saying the "undead scourge" must be destroyed, and the other saying that the "reanimated americans" should be given a chance to reeducate and assimilate into society. Then we'll get into the whole debate over "reanimation rights" (does everyone have the right to rise from the dead?) and the question of "living/undead marriage" will be an especially hot-button topic. Of course, if the zombies--I mean undead americans--are legally dead, that raises many issues such as workplace rights, the right to own propery, the rights of lenders to restition owed to them by the recently deceased; the list goes on. Nevermind. I suppose the zombie apocalypse will be a mere hiccup in the arena of public debate.
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I try so hard dammit. I really do.
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but seriously voicebox "SeeThroughThis - You are pure, unadulterated shit" and then "you make an ass of yourself" followed by "the hate-mongering, racist imbeciles you truly are." and i believe you called someone a "jackhole" earlier on yet you have the nerve to say the only thing seethroughthis is good at is name calling?! if you look back every single post you write has some kind of derogatory thing to say about those with opposing views intermingled with your politics!your the biggest name caller on here! and "What's saddest is, you can't even see it! "
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was hilarious!just finished the walking dead trade and godamnit now i have to go get the 2nd one and add a new book to my pull list! i hope you @ssholes are happy!
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It looks photo-realistic because half of it is photos. Geez..when are these reviewers going to realize that these guys are just running photos through one or two photoshop filters....the thing is..they do such a poor job of even disguising it. Photo reference is invaluable...but if you are going to use actual photos in the books, atleast try and integrate them better. Let AICN writers critique books based on their story...but don't bother about the art. Get artists to critique the art please.
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Feb 18, 2005 3:41:03 PM CST
Haha, Because Selling Weapons To Iran Is The Same As Selling Gra
by dog of mystery
Anyway, K-Gin makes a good point - call me a traditionalist, but I think (too many) photoshopped backgrounds is cheating. So which artists *cough - Maleev * are we accusing of this heinous... hien... haini... terrible crime?
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but if you look at the talkback from last week in order you were the first one to start with the name calling.all im saying is it seems like you are not capable of making your points without resorting to name calling and i pointed that out last week! i only called you a douche bag after you got all defensive about your posts. my original post was just to say 'hey great reviews,cool comics, and did voicebox just say go back to africa?that sounds like a racist comment'all it would have taken is to say hey i didnt mean that in a racist way and evryone could have moved on with their lives.but you had to jump on your soapbox and start educating us unlearned heathens on...you know what im not even sure... i mentioned before that i dont give a shit about your politics and i still dont. i came here to talk about comics.i just found it amuzing that you would bring up someone being a 'name caller' when that seems to be all you do to try to get your point across. and you deserve to be called a crybaby because you act like one. when you start name calling to back up your arguments, of wich ill say again i have zero interest in,you sound like a petulant child waving his fists in the air.
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Feb 18, 2005 7:38:18 PM CST
Voicebox:"...and even changing which partners we decide to take
by darth kal-el
I thought u wanted to dance with seethroughthis...
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And I really liked it. I read Swamp Thing back when he made his first appearances, but I've never read Hellblazer, so I'm one of the few not morally outraged that Keanu is in the role. There were times he missed, there were times he nailed it. Taking the film as an entity unto itself, I thought it was pretty darn good. Now bring on Sin City & Batman Begins. Still not sold on Fantastic Four.
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It's almost like I'm playing hangman with myself.
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I believe Garth Ennis has to be somewhat rightleaning. If you look at what he writes about, who he admires, and things of that nature...I dunno. Makes sense to me. Also, Iron Man is a Republican. I believe they as much said so during the previous writers' run. He is rich, WASPy, made money from weapons manufacturing, argued for killing the Kree Head-In-A-Jar, what more evidence could one want? Some more interesting points, though. The majority of writers, lefties most of them, make a point about not killing and respect for life, and much has been made about Batman and his hatred of guns to the point of propoganda, but what would the heroes think of abortion? They prize life so much, yes? I think Peter David handled politics with fine form in Captain Marvel, ie the aliens that freed a race from a tyrant yet wouldn't or couldn't pull out and the former Kree villainess who ran to him for help against a cruel tradition in her people. What other writers have all of you found to handle both arguements in a respectful manner? If any?
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No one may know my political beliefs, I'm playing devils advocate here. Also, as an incentive for joining groups.yahoo.com/group/theaholeinthewall...there's no Voice or SeeThrough!!! Hoo-ray! Also, there's porn groups too!!! More hoo-ray more!
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From Millarworld: You know, I was browsing around the net for reaction, and though there wasn't much of it here, on several boards there were a lot of people really bent out of shape about the scene in #3 where Steve tells Sharon about his experiences in France after D-Day. I honestly hadn't expected that, and was a bit shocked. The page on AICN practically turned into some kind of bizarre political rant about France thread. Someone there assumed I was putting my own PC sentiments about France in Cap's mouth, and on another board someone called me a pussy, even.
It's both sad and funny, really. For one thing, it's funny because I have no political opinion about France, and certainly not about France under Nazi occupation -- my only opinion of France is I like some of their film, art, and comics. But it's sad because I've never seen so many Americans who more than likely have never been to France, have never fought in a war, or lived somewhere that's been invaded by another country, have violent hate towards another country, for really, no reason.
In any case, though, I wasn't putting my views into Steve's mouth, I was writing what felt like an honest portrayal of Cap's experiences in the war. I didn't think anyone who'd fought side by side with the French Resistance, and who'd witnessed, first-hand, the Nazi slaughter of hundreds of innocents because of that resistance, would be like those reactionary right-wing freedom fries morons, most of whom never fought in a war alongside anybody.
Steve Rogers, if anything, is all about bravery, and so of course when he thinks of the French, he's going to think of the brave ones he met who took on tanks with guns and rocks, who helped make the storming of the beach at Normandy a success. He's not going to think about DeGaulle or the Vichy regime, he's going to think of the brave people who stood up for their freedom in the face of it all. That's who he is.
And I don't think he'd like seeing so many Americans who've never been in uniform or in war, call a entire country cowards. Anymore than he'd like seeing most of Europe call the US stupid because of the current regime. Anyone who's been through what Cap has knows the difference between governments and people. And that doesn't mean he's liberal or conservative, that just means he's got a brain. -
France is not your enemy! You should all stop these shenanigans and prepare for the apocalypse! Remember: cut off the head or destroy the brain.
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"I honestly hadn't expected that, and was a bit shocked" Hrm. If it smells like shit and tastes like shit, well, chances are, it's shit. "For one thing, it's funny because I have no political opinion about France" Clearly. "But it's sad because I've never seen so many Americans who more than likely have never been to France, have never fought in a war, or lived somewhere that's been invaded by another country, have violent hate towards another country, for really, no reason. In any case" Especially since I've never seen so many French who more than likely have never been to America, have never fought in a war, or lived somewhere that's been invaded by another country, have violent hate towards another country, for really, no reason. "In any case, though, I wasn't putting my views into Steve's mouth" Of course not. That's not what writers do... say what?! "Steve Rogers, if anything, is all about bravery, and so of course when he thinks of the French, he's going to think of the brave ones" Thak goodness he got SOMEthing right, as I mentioned clearly in my second post on this TB. "And I don't think he'd like seeing so many Americans who've never been in uniform or in war, call a entire country coward" And I don't think he'd like seeing so many Americans who've never been in uniform or in war pay homage to Mr. bike path himself, Howard "The Doc". "And that doesn't mean he's liberal or conservative, that just means he's got a brain" I.E. Let's all harken back to the fine years of 'The Captain' which is fine as long as no one ever asks who he is 'The Captain' of. Gimmee a break. Hope this post was clear enough for you, Darth Kal. Or, should that be... Espere que este poste fuera suficiente claro para usted, Darth Kal.
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what youre going on about fish.
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But those comments were made by Ed Brubaker, not Millar. They were just originally posted on Millar's forum. You know, Ed Brubaker. Lives in Seattle, the guy who wrote the issue of Captain America that sparked all this stupidity... this ringing any bells?
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...I just found this and I thought Superman and other comic fans would appreciate the humor... http://www.nationallampoon.com/supermanisadick/
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That's what Pres. Bush had to say about France today. So now, can everyone just shut the fuck up about this?
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...he was addressing Italian Parliament. Ah well. It's the thought that counts.
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and still no new column?! WTF!!!
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And it's a doozy.
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