Cool News
Learn Which Trek Icons May Visit The ENTERPRISE Season Finale!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
Shatner Schmatner!
Jim Kirk is no longer likely to visit “Star Trek: Enterprise” this season, according to sources, but Jonathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis could turn up reprising their most famous roles - Will Riker and Deanna Troi - in the UPN show’s fourth-season finale, according to TrekToday.com and Sirtis’ website.
The finale is also expected to utilize a teleplay by series creators Rick Berman and Brannon Braga, who haven’t yet scripted a episode this season.
Find Sirtis’ website here.
Find TrekToday’s entire report on the matter here.
Looking for bumper stickers, plush toys and girls’ underwear covered with cute cartoon double-amputees? Visit The Herc Store!
The finale is also expected to utilize a teleplay by series creators Rick Berman and Brannon Braga, who haven’t yet scripted a episode this season.
Find Sirtis’ website here.
Find TrekToday’s entire report on the matter here.
Looking for bumper stickers, plush toys and girls’ underwear covered with cute cartoon double-amputees? Visit The Herc Store!
Find TrekToday’s entire report on the matter here.
Looking for bumper stickers, plush toys and girls’ underwear covered with cute cartoon double-amputees? Visit The Herc Store!
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but i'll tune in anyway.Over here now that BSG has finished i'm looking forward to green Big Show appearing.
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It screams "cheap ratings ploy" but that's par for the course for television.
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Jan 25, 2005 10:39:58 PM CST
Bleeh. I like Frakes, but this feels like Berman pimping the TR
by commando cody
I seem to recall that the whole POINT of ENTERPRISE is that it was a PREQUEL leading into the original series time frame. The only way Frakes and Sertis show up (as Riker and Troi) is obviously yet another time travel story. But this just strikes me as Berman/Braga pimping the other TREK work they've done -- as if they can turn to Paramount and say "Now you owe us more royalty money" or something. On the flip side, if you could have had Shatner appearing as Kirk's grandfather or something (to play up the family resemblence and to account for Shatner's age and his more heavyset weight and appearance these days) THAT would be totally in line with what Trek fans HOPED Enterprise would be more like. Sorry, but get me a cameo from Shatner or Nimoy -- that would be cool. But anyone else for Next Gen, DS9 or Heaven forbid Voyager? Sorry, been there, done that...yawn!
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Jan 25, 2005 11:36:36 PM CST
" The finale is also expected to utilize a teleplay by series cr
by jim jam bongs
That means 1) It's going to be a cliffhanger. Way to end the series if UPN cancels it. 2) It's going to suck. FUCK.
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FUCK STAR TREK!
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[For the benefit of you poor bastards who don't subscribe to Warren's BAD SIGNAL mailing list...] "ENTERPRISE is cancelled. CREATIVELY cancelled. They actually did the "spooky aliens observe the human race and are shocked by the human capability for compassion" story. Again. I pick up an episode online every now and then to see how it's surviving, because I have an acquaintance associated with the show, but the sheer gall of the programme to be this bad was actually surprising. They could have just put a title card up for 44 minutes which read FUCK YOU FOR WATCHING. REGARDS, THE MGMNT."
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Wouldn't it look alittle strange (no, a LOT strange) to have a more than middle-aged rotund Kirk appearing on this show?
Or would he be completely CGI? -
Remember that episode of TNG when Scotty guest starred, got drunk, and became depressed while on a holodeck recreation of the original Enterprise bridge, wistfully thinking back to those better days? That sums things up, my friends.
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I mean, they're all kinda fat now.
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Seriously, I think it's time to print up T-shirts for sale on the Internet (CafePress?). Imagine a drawing of a hand giving the finger, superimposed over the Starfleet emblem, with the words "FUCK STAR TREK!". Or, another shirt with a drawing of an especially agitated Bones McCoy and speech balloon where he says "The franchise is DEAD, Jim!" Man I should probably do these myself -- I could probably make a mint.
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Jan 26, 2005 3:32:50 AM CST
Poor trek, It's a shame they're at this point where they're gett
by anlashok
I remember a while ago someone said to me "there's gonna be another Star Trek!" I said "oh yeah, where's it gonna take place, star fleet academy? The delta quadrant? Couple of thousand years after Voyager?" Naw" they said, " It's a prequel! Before the original series!" I said, "Ooooh.................that's gonna be tricky." They said, "c'mon man, it's gonna be great!" I told him I hoped so, and I did, ah well.
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"The finale is also expected to utilize a teleplay by series creators Rick Berman and Brannon Braga."
Any this is this a positive thing?... Bringing the 2 men who pissed the franchise up the wall in to write an episode really doesn't seem like a step forward to me! -
... SERIE FINALE???
...Christ, I HOPE so... -
I have to agree that going from a possible Kirk guest stint to Riker and Troi is a predictably lame trade for Berman to make. However, that said, I wouldn't mind a glimpse of the post-Nemesis Next Gen era. I hate where the movies left the characters, and I'd like to see some ideas for what happens to them afterwards. Will Riker and Troi travel back in time or will Archer and company travel to their time? I suspect it'll be the former, and it may not even be Riker and Troi after Nemesis either. It'll make it easier to drop Captain Picard's name that way. Guess we'll never see Riker's ship the Titan.
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What happened to "TREK is the pinnacle baby. All else is a pale imitation."?
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Instead of bashing a show that other people enjoy. These are the weakest arguments I've seen yet! It all goes back to the same argument from 2 years ago. If you don't like it don't watch and shut up and let people who do enjoy it! If you are trolling for fun you are the lowest form of life on the internet. I just advised Cutesof borg not to stoop to these tactics. You shouldn't either. It's one thing to encourage people to like a show. It's something else when people actually like it and you try to encourage bashing because it's fun or trendy. That's just as bad as the things you're accusing B & B of doing!
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I'm just using her own words against her.
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Once one of STE's main detractors seems to have liked the last episode and the direction of the season as well.
Here's part : " Observer Effect has more of that original series flavor that has been finding its way into Enterprise since the beginning of this season. The speech Archer gives in the final act is pure Captain Kirk; all that's missing is the background music.
The story also manages to showcase a lot of the supporting characters like Hoshi, Mayweather and Reed that have been getting short shrift lately. Hoshi especially gets a well-deserved and overdue showcase in this episode. In all, another giant step in the right direction. Fans of Star Trek that have bailed on this series really need to give it another chance. If they just wait for the DVD releases, they're going to miss out on what's becoming some of the best Trek since the glory days of Deep Space Nine. "
Nuff said!
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No one who posts on an internet message board should be telling someone else to get a life. You know why? BECAUSE YOU POST ON AN INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD.
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It's just immature and dumb!
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Is all in how you do and you're intent. Sorry but trolling is making someone feel bad for your pleasure. There's the difference.
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Jan 26, 2005 8:49:11 AM CST
Once again the Farscape fascists and Buffy blowhards have come c
by rolling_stone
And you tell us Trekkers to get a life. HAHAHAHA! You knobs.
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Jan 26, 2005 9:06:09 AM CST
If you don't like what's on the menu Atari just quit eating in t
by rolling_stone
This show needs a Porthos only episode. GO BEAGLES!
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Trolling is when you post only with the intent of illiciting negative responses. This is not the same thing as pointing out legitimate criticisms. There is nothing wrong with someone posting legitimate issues they have with Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Star Trek, Farscape, etc. I have no problem with people telling me why they don't like something I like. That should not be confused with trolling.
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...kind of already made that point, didn't he?
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..."Jim Kirk"...
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I hated Voyager and Enterprise, because they were too formulated and predictable (time travel anyone?) Star Trek needs to go away for a few years until the right person comes along to rejuvinate it.
Right now, it just plain sucks. -
Having Riker and Troi on the show provides the perfect opportunity for an ending that could salvvage the entire series (to a certain extent). Riker guest stars as himself and travels back in time for some reason. What reason? I don't know. It's Trek. Ask the talking pie. And the Enterprise crew doesn't believe he's who he says he is. More importantly, they don't believe his warnings about the disastrous situation they are about to stumble into involving the Klingons and the Romulans... the one that results in the deaths of every crew member on Enterprise and sparks renewed and lasting hostilities between the Romulans, the Klingons and the Federation (I know they say it was Khitomer, or however you spell that, in the Official Chronology, but this continuity has been monkeyed with enough already that making this the real starting point won't matter). T'Pol seems like she's starting to believe Riker toward the end and recommends a mind meld to discover if he's really telling the truth. But she's really going in to fry his mind and wipe away what he knows... and while she's in there, Riker catches a glimpse of the truth behind the truth... that T'Pol is really a Romulan spy who's been manipulating Enterprise into fuck-up after fuck-up since day one, just to ensure that the Romulan split from the Vulcans endures and that the Federation is too busy fighting multiple enemies to expand its own power. This horrible revelation comes just as Klingon and Romulan vessels simultaneously open up on Enterprise (despite Archer's stuttering pleas for peace). Then... and this is the best part... just as the ship is coming apart and people are dying all around him and T'Pol is laughing an incredibly sexy, evil laugh, Riker wakes up in a cold sweat next to Troi in their bed. He relates his entire dream to her, and all she can say is: "Tell me more about this sexy Vulcan chick." I'd watch that shit. Hell... that might even explain away the shitty taste in my mouth after getting suckered into watching several episodes of the "new and improved" Enterprise this season. And I'm not trolling. I'm stating my serious disappointment in a show I had high hopes for as a huge Trek fan. So pardon me if my negativity is rattling the fragile cage in which the blind, deaf and really dumb supporters of this abortion live.
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Jan 26, 2005 10:40:26 AM CST
That repeated "thwacking" you hear in the background is the soun
by the nihilist
...JUST CANCEL THIS THING ALREADY! Warren Ellis is absolutely right. On a related note, how long do any of you think Herc will be able to refrain from responding to critics of the show? He hasn't done it since this season began, but how long do you suppose it'll be before he loses his cool and launches into another snotty, defensive tirade against us? I give it until the beginning of next season, assuming there is a next season (and I'm praying there won't be).
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....because Berman called the Guardian of Forever "cheap storytelling". Though an absurd concept like the Nexus and endless technobabble are not cheap storytelling tricks. *sarcasm mode off* Remember when Trek meant something? It used to be that you felt you were watching something truly special. Hey Uncle Rick, maybe Archer should meet Q hundreds of years before Picard did, too! Oops, sarcasm again.
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Jan 26, 2005 11:02:25 AM CST
I think they should bring back Balok with guest star Hulk Hogan
by lord shatner
"Have some tranya, brother"
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Is Jonathan Frakes really an "icon" of TNG? Apparently they'll let anybody into the club, then. And as to Marina Sirtis...well, I suppose two of her "icons" qualify, at any rate. Seriously - simply being on a show doesn't make you an "icon." Sirtis and Frakes are probably the people who need the money the most and come the cheapest, although Levar Burton might be kinda desperate. But he always seemed to be the guy who didn't really need or want the money or feel the need to pimp himself out. Anyhoo, Frakes hasn't had a decent movie directorial job since Trek, and Sirtis has managed to maintain a low profile of crap acting jobs. It's like saying Harry Kim was an "icon."
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I remember watching Trek as a kid and realizing that there was a morality play unfolding in the show. Each episode (well...most) dealt with particular social problems of the era. The writers seemed to understand that science fiction as a medium had the opportunity to use allegory and metaphor to voice concerns about what was going on in the world. Star Trek doesn't seem to go there anymore. Instead, they rely on formula and tried and tested story ideas (how many fuckin' time travel stories do they need to do? Must the Borg be dragged out everytime they feel they need to boost ratings?) instead of looking at the human cost of what's going on. Every character is an officer, every character is noble, no flaws exist, no relegion, no weaknesses. It's too utopian. I'm not someone who wants Trek to fail. Trek brought me into the fold of science-fiction and introduced me to some wonderful writers; some of which actually wrote for the show. They set the bar, but other shows like Babylon 5, Firefly, and (so far) the new Battlestar Galactaca have raised it. Under the auspices of Branon and Braga Trek seems to have fallen back on hard times by becoming too reliant on what they once were. They've failed to realize the bar is higher now and, because of that, have not brought any new insight into the show. In short, they have stopped challanging the audience.
Cheers,
??Pseudo?? -
...but I'll take it anyday over the other sci-fi out there." I really don't mean to pick on you in particular, cutey, but this statement was such a perfect example of what's wrong with Trek, both as a franchise and fan-chisem (to coin a term). It's evidence of a kind of blind loyalty that the producers have come to depend on like a crutch, turning Trek into the SPecial Olympics of sci fi programming, where any effort is "good enough" and every episode is "a winner." I was the most devoted of Trek fans... to the point where I resisted watching Farscape at all until after it was cancelled. Boy, did I miss out! That show was fantastic and I condescended it without ever once experiencing it ("It's got Muppets, how gay is that? Give me Klingons!"). I still think the Stargate series was a cheap cash-in ploy, but I'll be damned if they aren't turning out good episodes pretty darned frequently. Never watched Firefly until it hit DVD. Personally I think it's overrated by Whedon fans and a little gimmicky with all its western trappings, but it was still a hundred times better than just about anything I've seen from Trek since the end of DS 9 (except maybe the Voyager finale). And I was sure the new Battlestar Galactica would suck, but every episode I've seen (of both the mini and the ongoing) has been excellent. If enough other die hard Trek fans (and I still think of myself this way) would take off the blinders and at least get a taste of what else is out there, it might put some pressure on the dipshits inbreeding Trek into ineptitude to actually do something stimulating and or entertaining with the property.
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Jan 26, 2005 12:14:04 PM CST
Fans who love Trek still are not making this show a ratings succ
by electric_monk
There is some irony here. When the original Battlestar Galactica premiered in 1978, most people saw it as a rip off of both the Star Wars series and Star Trek. The only difference was, both the other franchises had better stories. Twenty-five years later, a new version of BSG may help put the final nail in the Trek franchise, as the new show intends to put characterization ahead of "high concept" stories that have divided the fan base on the last two Star Trek series. And a former writer/producer of TNG and DS9 -who is the creative force behind the new BSG series - is helping that along. Battlestar Galactica's two-hour premiere on January 14, 2005 brought in excellent ratings and marginally beat Star Trek: Enterprise. BG ranked first for the time period in all key cable demographics and earned a 2.6 rating, representing 3.1 million viewers; final ratings for Enterprise's "Daedalus" indicate that it was watched by 3.03 million viewers. *However, the numbers are particularly notable because Sci-Fi, as a cable network, does not reach as many viewers as UPN.* And I'm sure this latest news will not escape the notice of the one man who can give Star Trek: Enterprise a fifth season.Leslie Moonves, the co-chief-operating officer of Viacom, Paramount's parent company, and who over sees both UPN and CBS, has suggested that Star Trek may need to be given a rest. In a interview at the recent winter press tour for the networks he said that while "The Star Trek franchise has obviously been a very important franchise for Paramount, for the studio, the last movie didn't do particularly well. The series is struggling. The ratings aren't great. It may be a franchise that should be rested a year or two. I know the die-hards are not in favor of that, but I think if we rested a year or two, it might be a better thing." This, of course, sounds like a broken record. Enterprise was very successful in its first season, but has lost over half its audience since then. And for the last two-years, the show's fate for renewal came in at the 11th hour. Its move to Friday's for its fourth year was seen as its last chance. The failure of the franchise can be set at many doorsteps. Both Rick Berman and Brannon Braga are largely part of the problem, as they radically changed Star Trek (with Voyager and Enterprise) from thought provoking, allegory science fiction to high concept action and adventure (let alone ignoring all kinds of continuity) that left no room for character growth. An aging fan base is also to blame. When TNG appeared in 1987, there was no science fiction on TV. However, in those 18 years since, science fiction and fantasy are all over the place, giving viewers (especially the all-important male demographic of 14 to 30) a choice. And a fickle audience they've turned out to be. Star Trek still has a large fan base, but it has become as deeply divided as the recent presidential race. The new fans -exposed to new series such as StarGate, Farscape, and Lost and motion pictures as The Matrix, The Lord of the Rings and even Star Wars - see Trek as aging, archaic dinosaur. Sure sex, violence and action is great, but where's the story, where's a characters growth? Ronald D. Moore spent over a decade with the Star Trek franchise, writing for TNG. He single handily made the Klingons one of the most popular aliens seen by delving into who and what they were. He would also help DS9 achieve its greatest legacy as one of the creative forces behind the Dominion War arc that figured prominently in its later years. After DS9 ended in 1999, he went over to help Voyager, but found his ideas were not going to fit in with new regime and he quickly departed. With Galactica, Moore hopes to do what he could never do on Star Trek. In a recent interview with the Chicago Tribune, he said "my sort of feeling by the end of my tenure was that that particular take on sci fi had kind of run its course," he said. "Everything had to be reinvented – how we present characters, how the sets look, how it's shot. I really wanted to step away from Star Trek, which, in a way, is a testament to how successful it has been. It has become what we expect to see on a space opera." But with BSG, he wanted to step away from that entire "space opera" mode, plus to stay away from the cyberpunk notions that appear in The Matrix series. His goal was to make a ship out in space fresh and interesting. "The Cylons destroy the entire human race and only a handful of people survive. It's a scary premise, but within the first couple hours [on the original show], they go off to the casino planet," he noted. "It became popcorn stuff, which I think is at odds with the premise of the show itself." His idea was to explore what might really happen if a civilization is wiped out, "which after 9/11, is not such a farfetched idea. It's drawing on those emotions, those reactions in our country after that event, the issues we're dealing with – the war on terror, the war in Iraq, civil liberties and freedoms versus security."
Meanwhile, over at Enterprise, those types of ideas seem out of place. While both Berman and Braga have left the day-today operations of the show to Manny Coto -who has greatly improved the direction - the ratings do not reflect a significant change the show will need to get a fifth season. And for a second year in a row, Coto and series star Scott Bakula (along with Berman) are defending the show. In recent weeks, they've come out to say the fate of the show is yet to be determined and that the fans should put the troubles out of mind. Especially as the shows final batch of episodes will explain the differences between the Klingons on TOS and the ridge-headed Klingons we began to see with The Motion Picture. Plus, look for early formation of Section 31 -first seen on DS9 -and a two-part journey into the Mirror Universe first made popular on the original series and continued on DS9.
Rick Berman said in a recent Star Trek Communicator interview that he was worried about the show's declining viewership. "The fans have spoken highly of the show this season, which is very encouraging to us, but the ratings don't reflect that, unfortunately," In the end, though, one man will decide if there will be a new season. "I think the show this year has been much better [creatively] than last year," said Moonves, stating that he liked the changes, including more references to the original series and a focus on mini-arcs rather than a season-long action storyline. Moonves added that UPN did not have the same ratings requirements as other networks, like Viacom's other network, CBS, but said that Enterprise ratings for the rest of the season and the schedule for next season would determine the show's fate. But with the success of Battlestar Galactica, Stargate: SG1 and Stargate: Atlantis, Sci Fi has gained a significant foothold on the male demographic advertisers like. They've also been able to tap into what today's audience wants, without sacrificing character growth. They've found the balance between sex, violence, action and storytelling. And while Enterprise has done a better job at this for season four, many fans cannot seem to forgive Berman and Braga for the sins of past.
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... maybe, just maaaybeee..... It's a B&B Giant Douche instead!
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::spoken in Kirk's alternately quick, breathy yet halting delivery::
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Hey, DarkHawke, are these the real metal and glass ones that run close to $200 and come with their own display stands? If so, they are the coolest things ever. I saw one in a Barnes & Noble (discounted to $150, no less) and my wife had to pry it out of my fingers to keep it from coming home with us. And I totally agree with you about the richness and depth of Galactica. I've been surprised and impressed by every episode (and jealous of the Brits, who've seen about ten more than we have already). Any Trek fans here who have been hesitant to give this a shot, take this as a dyed-in-the-wool geek's endorsement. It may well be the best sci fi on TV right now.
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Childe Roland has a point. Blind loyalty is killing Trek. Yeah, the fans have said the new and improved Trek is better, but were are the ratings to reflect this? If indeed this show has gotten better, why are there no new fans? Why is the show be beaten by a cable channel that does not even reach as many as UPN? Some say that they don't have the time to watch anything else, which is pure laziness on their part. This sort of "I watch it, even though I know it sucks" works when its a ratings hit (American Idol, anyone?) But applied to Trek, its a pathetic statement of people who follow the status quo and are willing to follow Trek into the seven circles of Hell Berman and Braga let the show (both Voyager and Enterprise) fall into. What will make this show good is when they realize that character growth can go hand-in-hand with action. That you don't have to repeat yourself -or if you going to that, at least try to improve it. I swear The Observer Effect was a virtual remake of VOY's Scientific Method. And that episode reminded me of TOS episode. Arg! Anyway, the point is, Trek cannot get better until it understands what its auidence really wants. And Coto's attempt at finding some common ground is admirable. But Trek has left a bad taste in many fans mouths. The ones who stcu with the show are called the TRUE FANS. But these are the fans who would walk through a plate glass window if Berman and Braga told them too. And that's not a true fan. That's an accomplice to killing the show. If you love this franchise, let it go. If BSG can reborn, Star Trek can again. It did it in 1987 and maybe a few years with it gone (from both the theaters and TV), it can again.
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I'm having a great time on Friday nights now! 4 hours of TV SciFi that I like! All on one night. I actually had to use my SVHS VCR ( which I haven't used in about a year since I got my DVD recorder ) because Stargate and Enterprise are on at the same time. As for Voice O. Reason and legitimate criticism you know as well as I do over half the comments here are just bashing. Not only are they not funny they're starting to repeat themselves now. Also you can tell from some of the comments they haven't watched recently. As for the others it's like they're on a holy crusade to bring down Star Trek. Totally dumb. Ok, so some people don't like Enterprise. Some people do. However repeating you don't like it over and over again on a talkback that isn't being negative about the show is pointless. It isn't going to change anyone's mind. I didn't think Farscape was as good as it's fans make it out. The same with Firefly ( and I'm a Joss Weadon fan ) but you didn't see me just waiting to pounce on every talkback to try and degrade the show. That would be trolling.
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Shall I quote the IGN review for you again? Not everyone feels the way you do. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. It's not blind loyalty. They recognize that the show is improving and actually doing some things people like. It may be too late to save Enterprise but trying to degrade something because of an episode you saw in the 2nd season is just dumb. If you don't like it don't watch. It's really quite that simple.
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" One last note this morning: We've been talking up how great Star Trek: Enterprise has gotten these last couple of seasons, but while many of you have e-mailed to say that you took our advice, tuned in and were surprised to find yourself enjoying Trek again... we're sure there are some of you out there who haven't come around yet. Well... feast on this: pictures of a familiar set currently being created for an upcoming 2-part Mirror Universe episode. If that doesn't light a fire in your Vulcan blood, nothing will. What I wouldn't give to sit in that chair for a few seconds. Enterprise simply MUST be allowed to return for a fifth season. Visit the folks at Save Enterprise to find out how you can help make it happen.
I swear, if Enterprise doesn't get renewed for another season, I'm gonna personally storm the Bronson gate up at the Paramount lot. I'm sure I can find a few Klingon to join me. Sharpen up yer bat'telhs guys, and get ready just in case. Kaplah! "
As I said some people like Star Trek Enterprise.
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And the alien disease one wasn't much better. Why, Star Trek, why? You only hit me because you love me, right?
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...if I didn't still love Star Trek. Many of the people here criticizing Enterprise are doing so because they feel strongly that the show hurts Star Trek overall. Many people calling for Enterprise's cancellation do so hoping that a break from it will lead to a resurgence of it. Star Trek's been in production on TV for 18 years, after all!
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Anyone else think that Boston Legal has perked up a bit now that Denny has a sparring partner in Schmidt now? The look of orgasmic pleasure on his face when she leaned over and whispered "Denny Crane" in his ear a few weeks ago was priceless. His Golden Globe was well deserved just seeing the mileage that he has been able to milk out of that one gag. I'm glad they couldn't get Shatner, he would have been wasted on the current Trek.
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My feelings EXACTLY, V.O.R. And I think it's clear when you read the actual posts which people are here criticizing Enterprise out of love for Trek... and they aren't the ones coming off like zealots (Real Deal).
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Jan 26, 2005 6:48:48 PM CST
The fact is, Enterprise may also be damaging UPN itself...
by jim jam bongs
The network's potential to move on and finally define itself is being hindered by continuing to be obligated to Trek. The network has the chance to fully become a network that's geared toward a young, hip female and urban audience. If Enterprise finally goes, that helps free up money and resources for quality dramas like Veronica Mars and Kevin Hill, and new scripted programming that the network is about to consider as pilots. (Here's another fact: More young males are watching Veronica than Enterprise!) That doesn't mean there wouldn't be any sci-fi/genre shows on UPN... rumor has it the network was looking at Ellis' Global Frequency pilot, but its required commitment to Enterprise is preventing them from making a commitment. For the sake of not only the Trek franchise, but also the future of UPN, which finally needs to define itself in the way the television market is leading them, Enterprise must be cancelled, and Berman and Braga let go from attending to any Trek continuation. They did their job for years -- it's time for them to move on. Ronald Moore managed to do that. If Berman and Braga cannot do that, then they don't have the talent to survive in this business -- and that's their problem, not Paramount's.
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Where the two web sites I quoted full of zelots also? Enterprise had it's flaws in the first 2 seasons. So much so I thought it wouldn't improve enough. All of the recent ST shows from TNG to DS9 to STV all were very weak in the first 2 to 3 years. DS9 was a snooze fest the first 2 years until something actually started happening. TNG was incredibly stiff and dull ( and this you can't blame on B & B ) until the 3rd year. Voyager actually started having ok episodes in the 3rd season. See a pattern? As for TOS it was from a different time. The first year was the best. The 2nd had some merit. The 3rd was a crap fest ( " Brain, brain, what is brain? " ). At that point Roddenberry gave up and became executive producer. He was tired of fighting the TV execs. None of this was Shakespeare or anything really great. The thing you can say about it was that in a time when TV SF was a joke for the most part it was an attempt to make SF right. So I'm wondering what are you guys comparing this to? What makes any of the other ST series better than Enterprise? I've got every episode of TNG, DS9, and STV on DVD. I'm 51 and have seen all of them when they first ran so I"m very well versed in ST. Now just for counterpoint. Writing wise Babylon 5 could run circles around every SF ( space opera type ) series except for possibly the new BSG but it didn't stop me from enjoying Star Trek all the same. It was a different show. Some bad examples of TV SF : Most anything from the 70's. They were a wasteland for TV SF. Space 1999, Wonder Woman, BSG 1980, Logan's run, The Man from Atlantis. Now there are some really bad shows. Even the original BSG had many really bad moments. So I know what bad TV SF is like. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Star Trek Enterprise isn't that bad at all. As a matter of fact it's quite good at times ( especially since Many Coto became part of the show ). However none of the ST shows could hold a candle to something like the new BSG which is an attempt to do serious SF on TV. This comparison extends to Farscape and Firefly also. They aren't even close to the care that's being taken with BSG. About the only thing that comes close was B5. So once again when I hear things like " We'd like to see Star Trek return to it's former glory " or whatever I'm wondering what the hell are you talking about? Only the first year did anything ground breaking for the time. Most of the time it was just an enjoyable show that sort of got the science right most of the time ( also it was lucky enough to have a lead actor that was enjoyable to watch as he chewed up the scenery ). No. STE is another enjoyable show just like any of the other's. It's not Shakespeare just like the original one wasn't. So what is it you guys are comparing it to that you find it so flawed? Your comaprisons have to be from the 3rd year on and more than invidual episodes because every show has bad episodes ( well maybe not BSG I've heard they've all been good so far ).
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Jan 26, 2005 7:30:02 PM CST
since you all don't plan on watching, here's how they'll fit Mr.
by i87d
The story will take place completely in the 24th century (or whenever TNG took place). The Rikers have welcomed their first child to the universe, and he's now a couple years old. On day when the kid is playing with a toy spaceship, Riker tells him a story... a story about a ship called the enterprise. But the story ain't about his enterprise... it's a story about a much earlier enterprise, a story that his father told him... (which means after the episode is over, after we've seen the Archer-led Enterprise act out this fantastical story, we're left to wonder just how much, if any of it, is actually true...)
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That would be a GREAT way to end this series if it turns out to be the final episode and the last of Trek we'll see for a long time. Let's not have YET ANOTHER TIME TRAVEL story! Just have Riker telling his child, Princess Bride-style, an adventurous story/legend of the first Captain of the Enterprise. The End.
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Again, I ask: Where are the fans? If -and I will agree the show is much better than seasons 1-3 -is as good as you say it is, where are the fans to drive up those ratings to ensure a fifth season? Don't you see that because of Berman and Braga's utter contempt for 90% of the fans of TOS, TNG and DS9, they've destroyed this franchise? They've lost so many fans, been baited and cried wolf so many times, the fans have just given up. Is it sad? Yes. I would like to see the show return to the character plotted stories of TNG and DS9 days. And so would the 90% of the fans who've dropped this show from their viewing schedule. That's what most of these "bashers" you call us want (or Trolls). It's a simple request. Our complaints are simply paint-by-number stories, a weak cast lead by Bakula (who is still 150 times better than Mulgrew's Janeway) and over reliance that sex is only way to get viewers to watch. So where are the fans, I ask again, that make those ratings go up? Why have they not come back? Bait and switch? Berman and Braga? or the ever fickle male auidence?
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Jan 27, 2005 1:48:34 AM CST
They can do what ever the hell they want with Star Trek, because
by theginger twit
I used to be such a hardcore Trekkie. In fact i just caught up with the first 6 films - those kicked arse!! The original series had it's camp and Kirk Spock & McCoy. Next Generation for me was a phenominal surprise in it's consitancy to keep me wanting more. DS9 started slow and left me twiddling my thumbs, but when worf came along and the Dominion arch grew, I just never knew life could be so good. Voyager was ok for me. It would have been better had the ship always remained in it's damaged state from previous episodes and been in total shambles by it's return, in fact, I would have liked to have seen it destroyed and the crew transfer to that other federation ship they found - the possibilites for that show were always endless, but it was always star trek for girls to me. But I still liked it. To many borg and Hirogen, and holodeck episodes. But when Berman and Braga started pumping out contrived movies featuring our hero picard and data pitted against this weeks evil space aliens, totally fucking with the 7 year series development of characters... I started to feel real pain. Enterprise sealed it for me. No longer could I stretch my bullshit meter. I don't care how good this show claims to be now, nor do i care what is planned for it's future. the second Berman and braga are out on their arses and harve bennet, nicholas meyer and leanard nimoy are brought in to salvage the good name of star trek - i'll return also.
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Jan 27, 2005 7:14:33 AM CST
So, are there any original characters in Enterprise anymore? LOL
by scrumdiddly
The death throes of an offensive and inadequate series, managed by talentless nitwits.
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Electric_Monk
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Please don't try to paint the sexual jokes and little kid bathroom humor as serious ( head shakes ).
There are some ligitiment claims about the first 2 seasons and yes it may be too late to save enterprise but I maintain that the bashing is truly unwarrented now. -
None of you have answered any of my quetions or addressed the fact that there are people out there who have seen it improve and are willing to give it another chance. As I thought you wouldn't.
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Jan 27, 2005 10:12:25 AM CST
Like on Futurama...Ryker's head has moved to the front row.
by cookylamoo
By the way, am I the only person who was disturbed that Thomas Ryker was left to rot on the Cardassian prison planet at the end of DS9?
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Riker and Troi showing up on the U.S.S. Titian could be interesting. Here is that new song by that amazing Trek band Warp 11. It's called What Would William Shatner Do? It's all about being with a girl who isn't into sci-fi and you have to hide your love of sci-fi from her. A bootleg of the song can be found on this thread: http://p087.ezboard.com/fwarp11bbfrm1.showMessage?topicID=824.topic
Here are the lyrics:
WWWSD?
I got a girl
coolest girl in the world
But she's fly for the guys that aint down with sci-fi
And I am a guy with a model Enterprise
Imagine her surprise
If she ever found out
Yeah I got a girl
hottest girl on earth
But she don't see the worth of a guy in a Spock shirt
I love Captain Kirk and I'm gonna flirt
with a world of hurt
If she ever finds out
I got to think about it
I got to work it through
Next time she comes around
What would William Shatner do?
I got a chick
in bed a lunatic
Won't be my whore anymore if she knows I love Star Wars
Yeah I'm a geek to the core
And one thing's for sure
I'm never gonna score
If she ever finds out
I love War of the Worlds
Got a boner for green girls
Alien Nations
And Deep Space Stations
I love Flying Saucers
I say -
...any of my quetions or addressed the fact that there are people out there who have seen it improve and are willing to give it another chance." Well, I didn't want to answer this because I felt like it would come across as beating a dead horse, but just so you don't think there isn't a valid argument against your stance, here goes. It's a tired analogy, but Star Trek fans willing to give Enterprise another chance based on this year's episodes (MANY of which I actually watched based on recommendations from this board) remind me very much of the women I've known whose husbands have cheated on (or, worse, beaten) them, but who refused to leave them. "I know what he did was bad, but look... he sent me flowers." The Eugenics arc was a little boquet of Brent Spiner because they know we love Brent Spiner. But even Brent didn't want to be there. He swung between brief moments of overacting and a whole lot of sleepwalking through his role. Even he knew the story was a contrived and ultimately irrelevant rip off of an idea that had already been explored to its ultimate extent (Star Trek II being one of the most brilliant sequels - to the TV show, not the first movie - ever made). And the little tidbit Spiner's character threw in at the end about artifical life? A cheap bridge built hastily in an attempt to cross a chasm WAY too large... the chasm Berman and Braga built between "their" Trek and the fans' Trek. Take Spiner out of those episodes and what have you got? Another weak rehash of an old Star Trek plot acted by less enthused and less likeable characters than we had in the original (Space Seed). And that arc has been the template for pretty much every other trotting out of an old concept this season. The Vulcan arc, which started out mildly interesting and seemed to hold promise, was ultimately uninvolved, unfulfilling and pointless. The higher life form observing the Federation's interaction with other species? Yeah, that's never been done before. It's as if this season they realized "Oh, shit... we've alienated the fans to the point where they might just leave us!" So they made a desperate grab for things that had worked in the past, not realizing that what we crave is originality with respect to what's come before... character driven stories with some overreaching sense of purpose and continuity... relatable and well-rounded characters to advance those stories and give us a stake in the mythology as a whole. Even though this season's Trek is better than the Trek of recent seasons past (and what is that really saying? it's less shitty?), it still has NONE of that (continuity porn thrown in for the sake of being there really only further screws up the overall tapestry and is the sci-fi equivalent of name dropping). And with this news of the season-ending cameos, we know this cheatin', beatin' husband still thinks flowers can fix everything. Time to end the relationship so he can take a long, hard look at himself. Maybe he'll grow as a franchise and maybe he'll make new fans happy some day.
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No one is discounting the notion that there are fans who are watching this show. At least 3 million are, so that's nothing to laugh at. Still, those people are what's left of a much larger fan base when TNG was on. And while DS9 did not have the same number of viewers as TNG had, it still had more than ENT. It's the cost of what Berman and Braga has left behind. We complain only because Trek was once brilliant. Now, left in the hands of two idiots, it is a shadow of itself. Sure, as I've said many times, this season has improved. But because of the two B's, there are millions of more fans who have decided this show is no longer worth watching. There's the gist of all of it. UPN dosen't need the 3 million who watched last week -they've proven they'll watch what ever is thrown at them -they need to go after and convince the ones who have left the party, that ENT is worth another look. Once they address that, then maybe the "trolling" will ease up. You, Real Deal, have lost that perspective. Your answer for every complaint is "you're trolls, and it's a damn TV show". Empty rhetoric.
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I think they have grossly overestimated how much Star Trek fans actually care about these two characters.
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I agree that if UPN puts the kabosh on ST:E then that would be a creative way to end it. I think since Manny has take over this season, it has been more of a pleasure to download the episodes and watch em. I will be happy when Berman and co. are finally off the Star Trek ticket and are forced to fend for themselves. Maybe stepping away from the franchise is just what the creative doctor ordered for them guys/gals. I am not going to say that they have never produced an enjoyable ST. episode, but let's be honest, they haven't.
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So I suppose the reviews I've quoted are empty rhetoric also?
Also you haven't really addressed some of the questions I posed. -
...you really do read/see/hear only what you want to, don't you. Then, I suspect, the Trek you see when you look at Enterprise must be very different than the one I and many other legitimate critics of the show see. Good for you, I suppose.
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Jan 27, 2005 3:49:20 PM CST
The great thing about I8D7's finale idea is that Trek fans could
by jim jam bongs
Have Riker's young son question Riker about certain "facts" of the story as he's telling it. Riker smiles warmly, thinking, "You know, it has been a while since my own father told me this story. So maybe it went this way..." It would also be a nice, sweet way to parallel the story of Archer's relationship with his own father. I urge -- no, BEG -- Berman and Braga to take this route with the finale: NO time travel nonsense, and absolutely NO CLIFFHANGER! Let this episode stand on its own, and let Trek go since you know that UPN really wants to end this series. PLEASE do NOT hold the franchise "hostage" by putting in a cliffhanger -- end Trek, and your long-time stint with it, with some class and dignity, guys. I promise you that disgruntled fans will start to forgive if you do this. But if you pull a cliffhanger bullshit, it's over.
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You know they are scraping the bottom of the barrel when they have to resort to Guest appearances by former Trek Actors. First Spiner and now them.
What's next, the Tribble home planet???? -
Please consider airing Battlestar Galactica at 8pm so I can forget about Enterprise once and for all. (nothing against SG-1, but I prefer to watch it at 10.) Thank you. -
I've noticed that overall Trek regular series episodes and the films generally are subpar. But Trek is at it's best during mini-arcs and two parters on the regular series. I think this is a clue for the best possible future of the Star Trek fracnhise. Take a cue from the Farscape mini-series and quit doing films, which end up being two hour TV Episodes, and quit doing regular series. Focus on making a high quality three to five night night mini-series. Follow just a few core reoccuring characters and change their location/ship/etc... with each mini-series. UPN could run it during sweeps and it would spread Trek out enough so fans would watch. Get some new writers and fresh blood involved in the creation of the mini-series like Enterprise did this season.
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And that really goes to show how badly things have gotten with Trek. No offense to anybody here, but if former fans are coming up with better ideas as to what should be done in the finale, and how to continue the franchise (as an occasional miniseries), it simply goes to show that those in charge of things now need to go.
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I suppose the reviwers and people like the one at " The Digital Bits " are seeing what they want to see also ( head shakes )?
In the end you just don't have a good answer for things like that do you? Do I think this is the last year for Enterprise. There's a good chance. What's important is they went out doing good episodes and really trying to make a good show. Despite the mindless ( as Herc put it : Hey! Look at me! " ) Bashing. What makes me sad is that this could be the last of Star Trek in my lifetime. -
...didn't care to read my answer to critics who say the show is better this season. I agreed that what I've seen this season is better than what we've seen before, but I don't think it's particularly original or good on its own merits (they're mining the old bag of tricks and that will run dry or lose its charm very quickly) and I absolutely don't think it's a sign of revitalization or a promise of continued improvement to come. Let it go. You know Trek will be back in little or no time and, perhaps if they let a few years elapse, it will be back in a better, less derivative and self devaluating form.
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Captain Riker, aboard the U.S.S. Titan, discovers disturbing evidence of a shift in the timeline (the "Enterprise" universe) which, with its preponderance of bland, wimpy officers, would eventually end up leaving Earth defenceless and lead to the subjugation of the human race. The only solution is to go back in time and torpedo Archer's ship as it leaves space dock for the first time. And now, thankfully, the universe is spared 4 seasons of soporific tedium, because, in the best traditions of a Brannon Brage script "it never happened". Riker, having finally done something worthwhile for the Trek franchise, returns to his own time for a session in the hot tub with Troi. The End.
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