Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with Beaks' great interview with Don Cheadle. I love Cheadle from his PTA work... that's Paul Thomas Anderson, not Parent/Teacher Association... and I almost saw him in TOPDOG/UNDERDOG in New York when I was out there in August of 2001 to watch Mike Nichols' direction of THE SEAGULL in Central Park, but alas I never made it. I've heard Beaks go on about the play, so I was actually a little worried when I heard he was talking to Cheadle in person... I mean, the love Beaks seems to have for him is borderline psycho, but from the looks of this interview he contained himself quite nicely. Anyway, enjoy the interview!
If HOTEL RWANDA is ultimately an uplifting film, the hope it imparts comes with a catch or two. First, there is the 1994 genocide carried out by Hutu rebels on their sworn Tutsi enemies that serves as the picture’s backdrop, depicted soberly, though not graphically, by the political-minded director Terry George, probably best known for collaborating on the screenplays for IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER and THE BOXER with Jim Sheridan. The second catch, however, is the toughest, because it has to do with the worldwide sin of inaction that allows these atrocities to continue unabated in Africa. And we’re all culpable.
It should come as no surprise, then, that George’s searing film based on one man’s desperate struggle to save himself, his family and 1,000 Tutsis from likely execution is finding itself somewhat lost in the Awards season shuffle. Having seen all of the major contenders, this makes little sense to me. HOTEL RWANDA is far more affecting and compelling than the instantly overrated MILLION DOLLAR BABY, and certainly more important than THE AVIATOR. But, like its subject matter, it’s mostly getting met with indifference (not counting the wacky Hollywood Foreign Press). Though the story itself is an unavoidably familiar conflation of elements from SCHINDLER’S LIST and THE KILLING FIELDS, it slams home with an immediacy and sense of purpose that is entirely its own. Lately, Hollywood has only bothered to view Africa’s recent history through the United States’ military intervention; HOTEL RWANDA is a small, but powerful correction to this profit-minded inclination.
At the film’s center is a towering performance by an actor who, coincidentally, has also been ignored by the Oscars for the better part of the last decade. Before you curse the Academy for not giving him Best Supporting Actor of 1995 for his brilliant turn as Mouse in DEVIL IN A BLUE DRESS, you might be surprised to learn that he wasn’t even nominated. That’s right… Don Cheadle has *never* been nominated for an Academy Award.
That’s about to change.
Though much has been made of Jude Law’s ubiquitousness this year, Don Cheadle is right there with him, having appeared in six films debuted in one capacity or another this year. And while he’s been superb in all of them, HOTEL RWANDA is obviously the one dearest to his heart. As Paul Rusesabagina, the real life hero of the Sabina Hotel, Cheadle starts small and reserved, crescendoing masterfully from polite pianissimo in the early going to an anguished triple forte in the film’s final act. It’s the first bona fide lead in his career, and every note is struck with an astonishing fluidity that will hopefully give notice that he’s too damn valuable to be relegated to character actor status. Happily, there are more leads in development, and one in particular – a biopic of Miles Davis which is discussed below – that *should* be on some studio’s front burner as we speak.
Enough praise. Here’s the man…
*************************
I was lucky enough to see the Public Theater production of TOPDOG/UNDERDOG, and you two (his costar was the equally gifted Jeffrey Wright) tore that place apart. The great thing about it was the way you challenged each other; it was like watching two staff aces throwing their best junk at each other for two hours. (Cheadle laughs.) Do you plan to return to theater anytime soon?
Yeah. I would love to do some theater. I would love to do a play. It’s my first love, and it’s unlike doing anything else. Just to have that kind of time to spend on a part, and really just polish it over and over and over… it’s really rewarding. It’s really fulfilling. I don’t see a lot of great opportunities for theater out here; you kind of have to be… well, you don’t *have* to be in New York, but that’s definitely where the majority of the good work is. And it’s just logistically difficult for me. You know, I have two small children, they’re in school, and it’s not easy to jump up for six months and just…
Head out for New York City.
Yeah, head out, and “see you guys in three or four months.” I’m much too involved to do that kind of thing. If the opportunity presents itself over the summer, potentially, that’d be great. But at this point I haven’t seen anything like that present itself for me.
This year has been an incredibly heavy year for you. You’ve got five films coming out in this calendar year, or close to.
Four, I think.
Well, CRASH…
Yeah, CRASH comes out in March or April.
The work is great. It’s plentiful. Are you happy with the direction your career is headed?
You know, it’s funny because of what it looks like on the outside and what it actually *is* on the inside. There’s still a dearth of good scripts. I’m still trying to find something that’s interesting, exciting, ninety-eight percent there, and not one of these movies where it’s like, “The part isn’t there, but can you come and put a part there?” I get a lot of those.
Really?
I’ve done those before, and it usually doesn’t turn out too good. It’s still like finding a needle in a haystack sometimes as far as trying to find the kind of work you want to do. And then, also, logistically, like I said with my family, I’m really involved in my kids’ life. I’d like to stay that way, so something really has to be worth it for me to be gone for a long time to do it. I guess the more it goes on, it becomes a little more challenging at each turn. But, look, this is what I signed on for, so I’ve got to make it work. (Laughs.)
So, you get a lot of offers from people who want you to put a part in the film? Where they just want *you* in the movie?
Yeah.
A supporting role kind of thing?
Yeah. Sometimes. It’s like, “There’s nothing here, but we know you’re going to come in here and do…” and I’m sure I’m not alone in that. I’m sure a lot of “character actors” get those sort of calls, where they know that you’re going to bring something and kind of do their job for them. “We didn’t write this part, but we know that we want something dynamic and exciting to happen, so can you come take care of that?” (Laughs.) “Here’s your notebook and pen. We’re not gonna pay you or credit you, but please hook that up.”
Well, you are a writer. I worked at the Circle Repertory Theater years ago, and I remember stumbling across a play you wrote about football.
GROOMED?
Yeah. Well, it’s good to have that tool.
It’s another outlet, for sure. And I’m sure that whatever I’m doing would have to be around storytelling and the creative process of storytelling. But it is really difficult. It’s plays, really, where you can do that now, because in film so much is being driven by the marketing, and being driven by trying to make movies in the rearview mirror, and people who are at the head of the studios are not really concerned with any sort of creative content, and more concerned with trying to turn a buck. Which I guess I can understand fiscally. If I’m going to give you $40 million, or $60 or $70 million, I want to see a return, and try to hedge my bets toward that. It just doesn’t always make for interesting films. It actually usually makes for very boring, cookie-cutter, by-the-numbers films.
You’re viewed primarily as a character actor, but when you get a shot at a HOTEL RWANDA, where it’s this great juicy lead role… that’s a rarity, correct?
Yeah. I try to do, if I can do it, if it works out for all of those criteria that I mentioned earlier, any juicy role. It’s what you want to do as an actor; you want to do the juicy roles. You don’t want the desiccated, “Hey, come put something in here” roles. You want something that’s part of a fully realized script, a fully realized story, where the part that you’re playing impacts the film in the right way, and hopefully brings something you use as an actor and *grows* you. Gives you a piece that maybe you didn’t have before. It’s tricky finding something that has all those criteria. You could be out there being a gun-for-hire, and going, “Who’s got the dough? Where’s the highest bidder? Okay, you. I’ll take your movie.” But I think that’s just a diminishing returns scenario after a while. The money’s not going to be what it is, and you’re not going to have a very fulfilling career.
I think it’s kind of shocking, and maybe a bit shameful, that this is the first time you’re generating serious Oscar buzz since what I think was your breakout role in DEVIL IN A BLUE DRESS. Do you feel, in a way, unappreciated?
Ummmm, no. Look, the Oscars, once you really know what that’s about, and once you kind of pull the curtain back and see what goes into getting an Oscar, and how much of it is about the campaign, and what the studio is going to spend, and how many parties you attend, and who you meet that’s influential in the Academy… all of these things that really have nothing at all to do with the best “performance”, which to me, in and of itself, is a farce. What’s that mean? You can’t compare Johnny Depp to Jamie Foxx, or me to Liam Neeson unless we all do the same movie, have the same amount of time to prepare it, have the same directors, and have the same script. Then you can go, “Oh, he did a better job at Howard Hughes than he did.” But (Liam Neeson in) KINSEY and (Johnny Depp in) FINDING NEVERLAND… if those are two people that are up for Oscars, I don’t know how you look at it and go “Oh, he’s better than him.”
It’s tough when you get in a situation where one is a showy performance, like Jamie pulling out all the stops as Ray, and guys like Johnny or yourself… I mean, you’re doing work in HOTEL RWANDA that, until the second half of the film, is very reserved. And then you’ve got to get out there and lobby, like Kevin Spacey going to the Hollywood retirement homes.
(Laughs.) That’s what I’m saying! It’s like a campaign. You might as well do a commercial. That part of it isn’t fun to me. It’s funny to go on that whole diatribe, but for this film I *am* kind of being drawn into it, and I do see how it’s kind of important. This is a difficult film on its face to sell, and awards and great reviews… that kind of buzz and hype will hopefully get people to see the film. Because this film’s going to have to claw and scratch its way into a marketplace that is inundated with all those other kinds of movies. It’s not a big budget. It’s a film with black people in it, which they’re always trying to say they can’t sell and don’t know how to market. It’s not *about* the genocide, but it has that as its backdrop. And those things make it a difficult sell. So, yeah, I’ll take all of the hype, generate all of it. Fine. Because people should see this movie. And people, hopefully, will tell others that it isn’t something that they have to watch with their eyes closed, that it’s going to be a squeamish thing. Ultimately, the movie is very uplifting and very encouraging. It’s a thriller, it has a love story at its core, and good triumphs over evil. In that way, it’s a classic film.
The director, Terry George, and I had to go to the MPAA review board to appeal the “R” rating it had received. It was very interesting, because the review board is made up of teachers and parents and, I think, one religious figure. They’re there to sort of right a wrong if a film has been given an unjust rating. And they never overturn these things. Once they get rated, that’s it. But when the woman who came in to argue for the “R” was giving her reasons for the argument, Terry and I almost didn’t have to do anything but listen to her give her speech, because people started asking, “Well, is it because of violence?” She said, “Well, no.” Because there really isn’t any on-camera violence. You don’t see people getting chopped up.
It’s implied.
It’s *implied*. “Is it because there’s strong sexual content?” “No, there’s no strong sexual content.” “Is it for language?” “No. Somebody says ‘fuck’ once.” So, they were saying, “Then why the ‘R’ rating?” And she said, “It’s just for the overall impact of the film. The general effect of the film.” And they said, “Well, you can’t censor that!” That’s trying to somehow modulate and censor someone’s mandated emotions, and saying that we should not be allowed to have that sort of feeling, that we have to protect our kids from that sort of feeling. What sort of feeling? A feeling that there’s evil in the world that, and that good can ultimately overcome, and that you can persevere? What’s the “R”? So, we were able to get it overturned, and now the film is “PG-13”.
You just mentioned that the film is going to have to fight and claw for attention, which is an awful lot like the story itself back in 1994.
Exactly.
For some reason, Africa is being marginalized, and all of these genocides… they just get ignored. They just don’t matter in the grand scheme of things.
I think it’s addressed well in the film when the President of the Sabina Hotel says, “I’m sorry, I’m sorry. I tried, Paul, but Africa is not worth a single vote to any of them.” That’s politicians’ bread-and-butter, obviously: their constituents. And if the people don’t make enough noise and say, “Never again.” You can say that. You can have that as some sort of a platitude, but that’s all it is. It’s some empty sort of a battle cry that doesn’t have any teeth. “Never again” just keeps becoming “again and again” as far as Africa is concerned.
Terry George kind of comes from that Jim Sheridan school of righteous indignation, where they make these politically charged films. How do you as a performer match that passion and sustain it for the entire shoot.
Well, I don’t think Paul was coming from a place of righteous indignation. I think Paul was coming from a much more practical place of “I’m trying to live and have my family live.” When you’re treed by a tiger, you’re not up there thinking, “That tiger is so fucking evil”. (Laughs.) You’re thinking, “How am I going to get out of this.” You save your opinions for later; you’ve got to hustle. That’s kind of how Paul approached it, I think. It’s interesting. He brought all of, in my opinion, all of the skills that he had learned as a hotel manager to bear on this situation, which was all about managing people, reprimanding people when necessary, bribing people, massaging this one and appeasing that one and cajoling that one, putting out this fire and starting this fire. All of the skills he had learned running a hotel is what ultimately helped him survive this situation.
How much contact did you have with Paul?
A lot. He was there for the first part of the production before we started, and then he came back during the middle. And he was there at the end. He was a great touchstone. It was great to have him there.
What’s the status of TISHOMINGO BLUES?
It’s in hibernation. It’s in turnaround, or whatever’s Hollywood-speak for “It ain’t getting made right now.”
That’s too bad. It had a real head of steam built up, and looked like it was going to happen.
Yeah. And we had someone that we thought was going to put the money up, but then he got cold feet and pulled out.
I know that was with Session 8…
No. Well, Session 8 was involved, but they weren’t the main producers on it.
Are you still looking for something to direct?
Yes, I definitely am. It’s a very challenging task now. Like I said, I’m the father of two small girls, and they’re both at school, and (making a film) is a year of your life. It has to be something that I cannot say “no” to for me to do it. TISHOMINGO was, at that time, looking like it was tracking toward being that thing, and maybe it’ll come around again. But it’s hard to take that kind of time out for something like that.
I also know that you’ve been interested in playing Miles Davis. Is there any movement on that?
I know my managers have about six scripts that they’re going through. I just haven’t seen one that… I think the sort of standard biopic format is kind of played, especially if you’re talking about a jazz musician or a rock musician or any kind of musician. You almost know the story before going into it: they had some success, they started doing drugs, looked like they weren’t going to make it, went through three or four different people as lovers, cast that one off, found someone that stayed by their side… you know what I mean? We’ve seen them done like that. And with Miles Davis, where do you come in? In the 50’s when he changed everything? The 60’s when he changed everything. The 70’s when he *changed* everything? Every era of music that he dealt with, it all changed after him. So unless you’re going to be doing some real episodic, over ninety minutes, two hours… how long do you have? Fifteen minutes per era? All of the scripts are some version of that, which just isn’t to me the way to tell that story. It’s one that I would love to tell, but it’s gotta be jazz.
Would you want to work from the Autobiography?
I think the star of Miles Davis’s life was not Miles Davis. It was his music. It was his talent. And it was his vision. So, *that* has to be the star of the movie to me. The character has to take a backseat to that. I have an idea about how I want to do it, but I have to write it because when I explain it to people they kind of go wide-eyed. (Laughs.) They don’t know what I’m talking about. But I have to write it, and I just haven’t done that yet.
Also this year, you’ve got OCEAN’S 12, which is just getting back with the gang. Is that fun for you?
Yeah! It’s a lot of fun. If it wasn’t fun, I wouldn’t do it. Actually, I think all of us grew a lot closer being in Europe and being sequestered in our hotels. Because we were traveling with Brad, and that just meant having to fight through hordes of people. And it was great to have him there. If we ever wanted to leave the hotel without getting accosted, we’d just say Brad was coming. Everyone would just leave us alone and go back to the front of the hotel. (Laughs.) It was a great diversionary tactic to have him there. Sorry, Brad, but we had to use you, baby. And Jerry Weintraub, who produced it, is the modern day P.T. Barnum. He just makes everything great. When we stayed at the (hotel) in Italy, we had a sixth-floor terrace balcony that was set up with a bartender and food. Every night, we’d work on the set and end up upstairs – all of us, together once again. It was a real familiar setting. People brought their kids. My kids were there. It was a lot of fun, and I think the movie is better than the first one.
Is it a case of Soderbergh being more comfortable in that milieu?
No, I think he changed the game. I mean, that would’ve been the easy way out to just go “I’m going to do OCEAN’S 12 and make it like OCEAN’S 11 and just change where I am.” But it’s a completely different conceit cinematically, musically, the color pallet, the way he shot it… it’s completely different. I think that, for those who truly love movies, it’s going to be very satisfying because it’s a whole different cinematic conceit, which only he can… well, not only *he* can do it. I’m sure there are some others who can do it, but I’d be hard-pressed to see others do it as well as him.
As someone who’s hopefully going to be directing soon, and watching these directors you’ve been working with, are there any in particular from whom you’ve learned a great deal?
Steven, for sure. Carl Franklin. Paul Thomas Anderson. I mean, it wouldn’t be hard to look at my resume to pick out the ones that are superior. That’s really what I’m interested in doing now, is working with great directors. I *need* to be involved with really good directors. It’s not just the material anymore; I need to be involved with people who are really bringing it.
This would probably never happen in a million years, but DEVIL IN A BLUE DRESS was such an underappreciated film. Would you go back to Mouse if given the chance?
It would have to be right. It would have to be in the right thing and in the right way. When I signed to do DEVIL, that was a three-picture deal. It wasn’t just that one; there were supposed to be others. It just didn’t do what it was supposed to do. Sony didn’t market it. It didn’t make the money, so the other two just went by the wayside.
Also, just going way back to early in your career—
(Don peers over to my topic list and finds another subject to his liking.) Oooh, ask that one.
The NFL ads?
(Don laughs.)
Alright. Well, hell, we were talking about how you wrote a play about football. You’ve *gotta* be a big football fan.
Yeah.
Are you going to do more of these ads?
Actually, keeping my fingers crossed, I’m not going to be in them, but I’m going to direct them this year, and come up with the concept which is very different from what it’s been the last two years.
Just behind the camera?
Well, I directed them last year, but, hopefully, I’ll get to direct them this year, too.
But stay just *behind* the camera?
Yeah. I may have to do one of them just to go, “Yes, it’s me. I’m here doing them.” But I’m really more interested in directing and putting it together and the producing of them now.
Cool.
(Karen Oberman, Goddess of Publicity, steps in and gently chides Don): Looking ahead on his questions!
(Don laughs.) We were almost at the end, right?
Yeah, we were almost there. I was going to get COLORS in there.
Oh, well… good.
(Laughing.) Yeah, I didn’t know how you’d react to that, so…
(Laughs.) Yes, I was in COLORS.
Well, there. That covers everything.
HOTEL RWANDA hits theaters in New York and Los Angeles today, and expands to the top twenty markets on January 7th.
Faithfully submitted,
Mr. Beaks
email: Email Beaks here and whisper sweet somethings into his ear! Make him blush, I dare ya'!!!
|
