Moriarty Fumbles To Sum Up The Awe He Feels For Brad Bird's THE INCREDIBLES!!
Hi, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab...
I know this isn’t exactly breaking news by this point, but Brad Bird’s THE INCREDIBLES is a remarkable piece of entertainment that out-Marvels Marvel, out-Spielbergs Spielberg, and beats James Bond without breaking a sweat. I’ve held off reviewing it not only because of my schedule, but because I want to talk about the film in detail, and I would have hated to rob anyone else of the joy of discovery that made this such a powerful chemical rush.
It’s hard to make a good film. Hell, it’s hard to make a film of any type at all, but the particular alchemy that is required to make a good film is something that eludes some filmmakers for their whole careers. And then there are those wizards who manage to put together one good film after another, people deserving of real and lasting respect. You can probably make a list of less than twenty of those filmmakers working at any given moment.
There’s another class of filmmaker, though... the truly inspirational. They don’t just make good films or even great ones. They make movies that are transformative, movies that dare everyone else in the business to do better. They set the bar impossibly high, then manage to top themselves. So far, as a company, Pixar has turned out one amazing entertainment after another, and his first time out as a feature director, Brad Bird made the absolutely delightful THE IRON GIANT. Put those two flawless track records together, and the result is the kind of film that comes along once in a long while, a genre-busting entertainment that excites, illuminates, and emotionally devastates all in one fell swoop. No hyperbole... THE INCREDIBLES is an instant classic, the best film in an already very good year.
The opening of the film, the documentary-style interviews with Mr. Incredible, ElastiGirl and Frozone, establish a hip, breezy sense of humor right away that is undeniably more adult than previous Pixar outings. The script by Bird is as sharp and incisive as the best work of Billy Wilder and I.A.L. Diamond, and in fact makes me think that if they’d ever written a superhero film, this is what it would have looked like. When we see an extended action sequence set on Mr. Incredible’s wedding day, it’s more dense and exciting than the climax of most action films. We learn so much about the way society views these superheroes so quickly that it makes the world feel more real than in many live-action films. These are real people... the way they act, the way they react... and it’s hard not to see some trace of yourself in them.
Especially once things go wrong. And they do. They go gloriously, agonizingly wrong, setting up a first act that is almost entirely character based. All it takes is one look at the newspaper to see how believable the concept is of superheroes being driven underground not by a supervillain, but by the threat of litigation. Forced to live as an insurance adjuster named Bob Parr, Mr. Incredible dies a little bit inside each and every day. Sure, he’s married to the still-wonderful ElastiGirl (who seems to have adjusted quite nicely to her life as Helen Parr, housewife), and he’s got three fascinating kids, but his heart just isn’t in it. His daughter Violet wants nothing more than a shot at an ordinary life, while his son Dash is dying to use his superpowers. The only one who seems perfectly happy with their lot in life is the baby, Jack Jack, and that may just be because he’s too young to know any better.
I’m deeply impressed by the way Bird etches the details of this domestic half-life, and Mr. Incredible’s mounting sense of ennui is as eral as any mid-life crisis I’ve ever seen depicted on film. His friendship with Lucius Best, who has also hung up his Frozone supersuit, is one of the few things that keeps him sane. They sneak off at night to fight crime anonymously, and after a particularly close call, Helen confronts Bob about his nocturnal activities. “Is this rubble on your collar?” she asks him, leading to a blow-up that wakes the kids. The argument could be about anything. Bird has an impeccable ear for dialogue and the way a family really behaves. By the time a mysterious woman named Mirage approaches Bob with a job offer, his desperation makes perfect sense. He can’t live a normal life. He can’t work a normal job. He’s simply not normal, no matter how hard he tries.
His first mission takes him to an island where he faces off against a rogue Omnidroid (nice inside tech geek joke there for anyone familiar with all the fabulous post-production toys that Lucasfilm has developed) in one hell of an action scene. The jokes and the thrills come fast and furious, and the end result is a restored man, a brand-new Mr. Incredible. He has to lie to Helen, telling her that he’s going on trips to seminars, but for the first time in a long time, he’s alive and fully engaged. He finally seems able to enjoy his family because he no longer sees them as a symbol of something he gave up. When he returns to the island a second time, sure he’s about to be given a new mission, he instead finds himself face-to-face with one of the greatest mistakes of his past.
Syndrome is another of Brad Bird’s big brain moments, a truly inspired bad guy. It’s so hard to come up with a persuasive supervillain thanks to decades of James Bond films and comic books. So often, world domination seems like an arbitrary goal, and it’s become an empty threat. Syndrome is motivated by personal issues that make sense, and it’s even possible to feel some sympathy for him. At first. He’s like the Fanboy Id unleashed, alternately menacing and hilarious. Once he thinks he’s killed Mr. Incredible, he sets his plan into motion. What he doesn’t count on... and what makes the film really special on an emotional level... is Mr. Incredible’s connection to his family.
I love the fact that this is a full two-hour film. It allows for a denser narrative, and things don’t get wrapped up as easily as they do in most animated films. It also allows the huge cast of characters to all make a strong impression. Edna Mode, for example, is easily the film’s breakout character, the one you’re left wanting more of, and that’s because she’s such an original creation. First, there’s the basic idea of a designer to the supers, the one responsible for all those dynamic outfits over the years. Makes sense once you think about it, but she’s still one-of-a-kind, a genuine innovation in the genre. Part of the kick is also the specific way she’s been imagined, this knee-high half German/half Japanese dynamo with an acid tongue. In every case, these characters have been given more specific character detail than they need, a mark of the profound love that Bird and his team felt for these people they’ve created. Tony Fucile, Mark Andrews, and the eccentric, unstoppable Teddy Newton are all essential parts of the puzzle, key players in the story and character design departments. Lou Romano and Ralph Eggleston built the world that all of this takes place in, and I love the way they’ve created a retro-future that evokes the golden age of Marvel, the wildest dreams of Ken Adam, and the surreal exaggerations of Rankin Bass all at once.
And, of course, there’s the cast. Craig T. Nelson is wonderful as Mr. Incredible. It’s revealing work. I honestly never knew he had it in him, and now, I can’t imagine anyone else being able to accomplish what he did with the role. Holly Hunter’s distinct Southern honeyed drawl is toned down just enough, but all the warmth and intelligence she brings to her work shines through. Spence Fox is a real find, and he makes Dash a universally identifiable kid. I’ll be honest... whenever I imagined the voice of Calvin while reading CALVIN & HOBBES, this is the voice I heard, smart and a little hyper and mischievious. It was a brilliant move to hire Sarah Vowell to play Violet. The first time I ever saw or heard her was in GIGANTIC, the documentary about They Might Be Giants, and I was smitten by this oddball and her dry wit. She makes Violet vulnerable but not weak, and it’s a hell of a performance considering she’s not an “actor.” Samuel L. Jackson nails Frozone, but is that a surprise, really? It’s a nice supporting role as written, and Jackson gives the character that much more depth, really making him something special. Jason Lee is given room to play as Syndrome, and he does some of the best work of his career here. Elizabeth Pena, Wallace Shawn, John Ratzenberger... everyone does a superlative job with what they’re given.
When the action really kicks in, once the whole family is on Nomanisan Island, the film kicks into a delirious high gear that reminds me of the sugar high I got the first time I watched BACK TO THE FUTURE. Everything drops perfectly into place. Every character pays off just right. I’ve seen the film multiple times now, and there are moments that are burned into my memory, those indelible goosebump moments that make us fall head-over-heels in love with a movie... and more than just a few. Dash realizing he can run on water, the way Frozone rides in on his temporary bridge of ice like an Olympic speed skater, Violet’s acceptance of her own ability as she puts on her mask for the first time, Bob and Helen’s argument about which freeway off-ramp to use, the appearance of a new threat at the end of the film, Jack Jack’s big reveal... and that’s just the stuff at the end of the movie. THE INCREDIBLES is overstuffed with more joy per minute than any other film this year, but it’s also a thoughtful post-9/11 parable about holding together a family even when faced with life-threatening danger. Beyond that, it wants us to celebrate the things that make us special. To reach so high and hit every mark is a rare accomplishment, and it distinguishes THE INCREDIBLES as exactly what the title claims.
I’ve got a lot more stuff coming before Monday, including my reaction to THE POLAR EXPRESS in IMAX 3-D, a peek at 30 minutes of footage from LEMONY SNICKET’S A SERIES OF UNFORTUNATE EVENTS, and reviews of HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS and BLADE TRINITY, so keep checking back!
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Nov. 21, 2004, 12:16 a.m. CST
AAAGH! My 6 year old daughter has gotten to see this film (birthday party-- boy, I never got to go to birthday parties like that), but I haven't. It's killing me....***And Harry, I'm not kidding-- that man-breast animation is just WRONG! Pleeeeaaassse stop using it!
Nov. 21, 2004, 1:39 a.m. CST
Why is it that live-action films struggle with clean and compelling stories while Pixar makes it look so easy? Man, I love the reto-future look of this film and the John Barry-esqe score. Thanks again Mori.
Nov. 21, 2004, 1:53 a.m. CST
What with the big Disney break-up, it would seem that Pixar wouldn't be able to be involved in any sequels...
Nov. 21, 2004, 2:15 a.m. CST
Gee sparklecopy, glad to see you basically cut and pasted your entire sorry excuse for a rant from the other Incredibles talkback into this one. Rather than do the same thing and copy my rebuttal, I will instead just laugh at how incredibly lame each and every one of or "arguments" are as to why you feel this amazing film is supposedly less than great. They were lame the first time you posted them and they continue to be lame, it must be sad to have so little joy in your life that you must create weak arguments to detract from something great not once, but twice. The Incredibles is by far the best movie of the year.
Nov. 21, 2004, 2:39 a.m. CST
Nov. 21, 2004, 2:44 a.m. CST
Oh, and who has heard the really sad news that Disney is making Toy Story 3 and 4. That's right, they are making two more Toy Story movies. They are putting together a team to create these two movies at the same time. That is so sad. http://www.comingsoon.net/news.php?id=7226 Oh, and sparlecopy, shut the fuck up and go see the Polar Express
Nov. 21, 2004, 2:57 a.m. CST
by Mr. Aqualung
Wow, sparklecopy... that was pathetic. I'm going to assume you're 12 from your style of writing and the seemingly endless series of moronic arguments about a film you clearly didn't understand. If you didn't like it, that's fine. Just say so. It's strange to me, but I would leave it at that. Instead, you tried to impress us with your pseudo-intellectual rationalizations and painful misinterpretations. I have to tell you: it's all a little sad and it doesn't reflect well on you. Actually, it looks to me like you are just trying to get some attention (as are most 12-year-olds) by being the only one who didn't like the movie. And by the way: quoting from the dictionary doesn't make you look cool or smart; it just makes you look like an idiot. Tell your mom to put it back on the shelf for you.
Nov. 21, 2004, 2:59 a.m. CST
what a great film I could go on and on but everyone else is doing it for me. Best film of the year
Nov. 21, 2004, 3:29 a.m. CST
...but fuck it -- there are some absolute truths and the genius of The Incredibles is one of them. Anyone who doesn't appreciate this work of art deserves a flurry of vigorously delivered cock-punches.
Nov. 21, 2004, 3:35 a.m. CST
How pathetic. Copying your own post from a previous article and pasting it in a new talkback. How lazy. How creatively bankrupt. I just watched the trailer for that Vin Diesel movie "The Pacifier." But does it look crappy. BUT, when that duck bit Diesel's earlobe I 'bout shit my drawers. THAT was funny, but the rest of the movie looks shit. It's like "Night At The Roxbury." The only funny part was when those two dogs jump on the table and fucking demolish that cake. The Incredible was one of the best movies of the year, by the way.
Nov. 21, 2004, 3:59 a.m. CST
by Trader Groucho 2
and wisely, I might add. BTW the trailer for Cars in front of The Incredibles had basically the same joke as when Dash gets bugs in the face while running fast. But as the bit in the ad with Mr. Incredible unable to get his belt on wasn't in the film, I suspect the insects in the grill bit won't make the theatrical cut of Cars either. Very enjoyable film, but if I had to rank what I've seen thus far this year (which is unfair as it's apples and oranges), I'd have to put Eternal Sunshine and The Dreamers over The Incredibles.
Nov. 21, 2004, 4:44 a.m. CST
by Mike K
Pixar films are better written than live action film's, and THE INCREDIBLES is the best super- hero film ever made. Even better than SPIDERMAN 1 or 2, X-MEN 1 or 2, or SUPERMAN 1 or 2. It has the best James Bond plot in decades! Why can't live-action films demonstrate the talent demonstrated in the writing and direction and production of this film? Hollywood should be ashamed that they can't make a live-action film as good as any Pixar film. Also, this is the first computer animated feature length film to use HUMANS as characters(have I missed one)? Not talking toys or animals. And the funny thing is, you don't think of them as artificial. You accept them as real people and care about them (more than you care about the over-paid stupid hollywood actor's in most over-budget live action films). I am tired of the idiot computer animated films coming up featuring robots, zoo animals, etc. These films just don't have the talent that PIXAR has. Disney is so stupid to let PIXAR get away. They deserve to drown in lakes of blood.
Nov. 21, 2004, 5:11 a.m. CST
I hope that someday, somehow Pixar and Disney will find a way to work together with Brad Bird for a follow up. I remember talking to this Nickelodeon animator once who told me that Brad was originally going to develop a sequel to The Iron Giant before Warner Bros. pulled the plug on it's animation division. The story would have seen Hogarth as an adult reunited with the Giant after being sent to Vietnam. I think that would have been an incredible film and I honestly hope that Brad gets the chance to deliver a great sequel in the near future. The reality is that Disney will probably release it's own sequel direct-to-video like it has done with many of it's other classic animated titles and we all know how those turned out.
Nov. 21, 2004, 6:22 a.m. CST
Brad Bird might not be God, but he's closely related.
Nov. 21, 2004, 7:24 a.m. CST
Am i the only one who felt that i was watching a Super-Simpsons for the first half of the movie? I mean - Dash, just so IS Bart, and the rest of the family dynamic matches up with Brad Bird's Simpsons days... I'm sure this is a really obvious thing to say, but im surprised noone else seems to have.. And yes, this film is amazing - I'm so looking forward to it wiping the smug grins off the faces of the Shrek 2 production crew.
Nov. 21, 2004, 7:37 a.m. CST
by Judge Doom
Since they adapted the FF someone could work on the X-men! Bet movie of the year hands down!
Nov. 21, 2004, 7:47 a.m. CST
by Anonymus Coward
i like the incredibles. i didn't get quite so wet about IRON GIANT because my robotics background ruined my suspension of disbelief (or did aliens build it? maybe I will have to watch it again) the library is packed full of novels and stories, anyone and everyone with a library card can go and borrow and read and learn. aristotle's POETICS. graphic novels, in general. sandman. i saw frank sinarta as a young man in black-n-white film clips, then i saw him older, and then he died. we're all gonna die. the "smartest" people from 100 years ago were built from the exact same DNA as we are. though we have better vitamins and better telecommunications. warren beatty in LILITH was young and sexy and now he's old and sexy, and soon he'll die. we're running out of time. everyone with a PC can go get 3dstudio, lightwave, and maya -- authentic renderman is a bit harder to find, though it's in openstep and nextstep. get premiere while you're at it, and make your own 3d animated short film. before you die.
Nov. 21, 2004, 7:49 a.m. CST
Nov. 21, 2004, 9:21 a.m. CST
I hate to say it, but I think the answer revolves around actors and directors. Actors: With animated characters, even when they are being voiced by name talent, you probably don't have a TENTH of the "I want this scene rewritten because I have a feeling in my big toe about this one line" BS that stars do to undermine all scripts. That's also one reason that successful plays end better than material written purposefully for the screen: actors are less cocky about inventing their own dialogue or demanding script changes. Directors: Since anything is possible in animation, you don't have the phenomenon of directors rebuilding scripts around the two or three expensive set-pieces they want to make the focus of a live-action film. If it sometimes seems like more happens in the first ten minutes of a Simpsons episode than happens in most feature films, it's because there's no pressure to get every last bit of value out of a particular set piece, and they can just accelerate from incident to incident. No one ever used an animated film to establish a "new and exciting directing style", either, so the focus remains on the story and not on what the director thinks might be cool or fun to try.
Nov. 21, 2004, 10:36 a.m. CST
by Lost in Uranus
Are we all this annoying at 14?
Nov. 21, 2004, 10:45 a.m. CST
by Lost in Uranus
The Incredibles rocked. Seen it twice and both times I left the theater with a grin on my face.
Nov. 21, 2004, 10:49 a.m. CST
The famous, multiple Oscar-winning costume designer that was the number one go-to girl for costume design in the forties, fifties, and sixties. Edith wore her hair like that, had those huge glasses, and was of diminutive stature. Considering the retro look of the set/scene design of this movie, she was a perfect choice to emulate. Considering the demographic of this movie, its no wonder nobody recognizes the comparison. Edith Head died before most of you were born.
Nov. 21, 2004, 11:13 a.m. CST
I was sure that it had come out before. I just noticed that Moriarty didn't mention it in his review, and that nobody had posted anything about it in this thread. Just wanted to bring it up for the uninformed.
Nov. 21, 2004, 11:42 a.m. CST
by The Jailer
This is a Pixar film so where was the tacked on goody at the end after the credits? I sat through the them all, convinced there would be a treat at the end - a hint of a sequel - outtakes -anything, but there was nothing. This has become a Pixar trade mark and they let me down. Still the movie was ace. Where's my super suit?
Nov. 21, 2004, 11:46 a.m. CST
...it'll have 5 members, but at least we'll feel like we belong somewhere. Seriously, this has to be one of the most critically overrated movies in modern history. In recent memory I'd say Spiderman 2 and Minority Report would have gotten this honor, but since "Incredibles" is "the best superhero movie ever" I guess it takes that cake now. Maybe I'm not enough of a movie geek, maybe I haven't seen enough old spy movies to "get" all the references. All I know is this left me with a big "eh" at the end. Could someone PLEASE explain how this is better than either Spiderman, X-Men, or even Superman? The plot was all over the map (literally) the bad guy's motivation was LAME and there were too many characters and YES, it's just Simpsons with superpowers but not as good. I think this movie was just too "big". It's like having someone with a billion power tools who builds the Winchester Mystery House instead of a nice cozy cottage. In the el cheapo "Iron Giant" Brad Bird could only afford to do what really mattered, and that's how that film kept so well on track and had, at least for me, much greater impact.
Nov. 21, 2004, 11:47 a.m. CST
...as I most certainly do not.
Nov. 21, 2004, 12:02 p.m. CST
Allow me to join the group of people who thought Incredibles was just "okay". I mean, I was very entertained by this film, no doubt, but it's nowhere near being one of the best films of the year. To compare it to something like "Eternal Sunshine..." or "Kill Bill Volume II" just seems like a farce. It was a fun superhero cartoon, that's about it...I personally didn't feel it was as good as "Iron Giant", let alone "X-Men 2".
Nov. 21, 2004, 12:04 p.m. CST
If your life is that miserable, please just hang yourself. We'll eveb start a PayPal account to help you with the rope purchase.
Nov. 21, 2004, 12:24 p.m. CST
Nov. 21, 2004, 12:25 p.m. CST
I'm not saying I think it's a bad movie, far from it. But geeze, you people are overrating it badly.Best film of 2004? Please! I just didn't find it nearly as much fun as the Toy story movies or Finding Nemo. Where were the laughs? It's just not that much fun. I think the fact that it's a super hero story automatically gets most of you wet, but it's not a great film. I put it in the pixar league of Monsters Inc and A Bugs Life. Good, but not great.
Nov. 21, 2004, 12:31 p.m. CST
I thought "The Incredibles" was unoriginal, flabby, and dull in a few spots. And the nearly gagless screenplay isn't up to Pixar standards, let alone Wilder and Diamond. "The Polar Express," derided as it is, is the superior film.
Nov. 21, 2004, 1:04 p.m. CST
by Ted Striker
Good lord - are Harry and Moriarity, the 2 reasons I come to this site, so friggin BUSY that they can't take the TIME for the one thing that made them famous in the first place? Jesus, these reviews should have been out AT LEAST 2 weeks ago... are you guys so full of yourselves that you figure, "hey, even if I write this review 2 years after the movie comes out, people will still read MY REVIEW, because I'm a self-important hollywooded now." You guys need to re-figure your priorities. Roger Ebert had his review out on time - where the HELL were you?!
Nov. 21, 2004, 1:21 p.m. CST
Where was the humour and fun? I've come to expect a lot of laughs from a Pixar movie and other then the cat in the tree in the first 5 minutes there was nothing.The film at 2 hours was too long. Most of the kids in the theatre were wanting to leave long before it ended. And why wasn't Frozon in the film more? Great charcter, should have had more screentime. And while most of you are trying to say how great the screenplay and characters are, the entire plot is very cliched and offers nothing new.
Nov. 21, 2004, 2:05 p.m. CST
by Dr Farragammo
Seriously I like Identity crisis, vertigo titles, supreme power, punisher, etc, but I lament the lack of quality comics aimed for kids. Without kids reading comics the genre is doomed and I think there should be a company that does nothing but that. i nominate Brad Bird to spearhead it, someone who can make cartoons that kids as well as adults enjoy. He really is the shit. I'm not a big Pixar guy or kids show enthusiast, but the Incredibles and The Iron Giant are classics.
Nov. 21, 2004, 2:40 p.m. CST
and they don't even seems bothered? think people...think
Nov. 21, 2004, 2:47 p.m. CST
look just like Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston, two of Disney's nine old men? Coincidence or homage?
Nov. 21, 2004, 2:57 p.m. CST
Sparklecopy, in light of your oh so fabulous repost and sense of misplaced logic, I'll answer as best I can. First off, the origins. You claim to see these characters as rip offs of other, already established superheroes, and now you suddenly can't figure out for yourself how they work? Don't you have any imagination kid? Have you ever read a comic book? Does every tiny thing have to be spoon-fed to you or is it even possible for you to make a 'logical' deduction based on what you've seen. (If you've never seen the matrix... my heart bleeds for you.) Secondly, the characters ARE the type we all know. The guidelines for the stereotypical character are already set, they were set decades ago. You want them? The family dynamic / husband and wife heroes. The precocious kid who wants to be like his dad. The lonely teenage girl who thinks her family are too weird. The sultry female villain with a dark past, a crush on the hero and a spark of goodness deep inside. The Team of heroes. The man of fire, the man of ice, the stretchable hero, the superfast hero, the invulnerable hero, these are the models, this is what a comic book superhero is. It's a superhero movie, go figure. The costumes marketed for mass appeal? Uh... isn't that the point? Cue the line of toys. Why is the movie called the Incredibles? Let's talk about the Fantastic Four, who you admit the family is based on, I don't see a Mrs Fantastic or a baby Fantastic either. Nor is the team called 'The Richards', don't you get it? HE is incredible, together they are MORE incredible, thus they ARE The Incredibles. The Iron Giant is good, but it's time to move on. It's a separate story, it's over, and you think Brad Bird sits at home wondering what's best? He has these two fantastic movies under his belt, he's happy and so should you be. The Incredibles doesn't take away from the greatness of the Iron Giant, it just adds to the genius of Brad Bird. Nuff bloody said.
Nov. 21, 2004, 3:23 p.m. CST
No doubt they will release a "new" version with extra stuff during the credits in a few weeks. Gotta milk it for all it's worth.
Nov. 21, 2004, 3:42 p.m. CST
This movie rocks, but it is not the greatest superhero movie ever. That would still be a tie between X2 and Spiderman 2. However, it is DEFINITELY the greatest Pixar movie ever.
Nov. 21, 2004, 4:29 p.m. CST
...and anyone who tells you it's not for children talks kak. My kids faces were pure gold. BRAD BIRD SHOULD TAKE OVER DISNEY NOW!!!
Nov. 21, 2004, 6:54 p.m. CST
by Mr. Aqualung
Kid, I feel for you. You're at that age when we think we know things, but are actually just being introduced to the world. Your "logic" is laughable at best. Your post makes no sense, I'm sorry to say. I might have been a little hard on you before, but you make absolutely no good point! Really!! As I've said before: it's okay not to like the movie. Some people here didn't, and I respect that, even if I don't agree with it. And a tip: I wouldn't brag about being 14 if I were you. It makes you look even dumber, since you write at a 6th grade level. It would've been smarter to keep quiet. But then again, intelligence is not something you've been blessed with.
Nov. 21, 2004, 7:04 p.m. CST
All I'll say on the topic of people who didn't like The Incredibles is, I'm glad I'm not one of them. The people who "got" this movie, in my opinion, are the ones who have something special in them that, for whatever reason, doesn't get let out in an attempt to fit in, to be "normal." The ones who don't "get" this film, again, in my opinion, are those who really are just normal, or may just feel that way. I keep getting reminded of a line from Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns when Superman says "we must not remind them that giants walk the earth." Guess what people, giants DO walk the earth. They're stronger, faster, smarter, and braver than a lot of us, and they don't show off. They wear badges, helmets, smocks, uniforms, put their lives' in danger, and they don't tell the world how special they are. Like it's said in the movie, "who wants the pressure of having to be super ALL the time?" It's up to us to remind the world that those special people are out there. The Incredibles help to remind us. They even serve to remind us that there's something special in everyone, and that there's no shame in sharing it with the world. Even if you have to wear a mask.
Nov. 21, 2004, 7:49 p.m. CST
Children won't get it. Adults get annoyed watching a stretched out episode of eastenders. The superhero stuff was great. The 'human' stuff was boring. I know it's meant to be boring, but there's satirical boring and then there's cinematicaly boring. Anyone else see them pinch the subplot from the lois and clark series?
Nov. 21, 2004, 9:30 p.m. CST
Your embarrassing yourself.
Nov. 21, 2004, 10:24 p.m. CST
by Osmosis Jones
They also appeared as train conductors in The Iron Giant. Wonderful little tribute ("Now *that's* doing it old school!").
Nov. 21, 2004, 11:28 p.m. CST
I was nice to see a good cage movie again I forgot how much I liked his stuff> A lota fun
Nov. 21, 2004, 11:44 p.m. CST
I have to admit I couldn't sit all the way through it. I've seen bits and pieces of it on cable. It's impossibly boring and I have to say that the little boy is just too precious to be borne. It certainly wasn't as good as either Toy Story. For that matter, it wasn't as good as Antz or Ice Age. So stop holding it up as this paragon of animation. It's humorless and its message is trite. Next time write it on a fortune cookie and spare me the yawns.
Nov. 22, 2004, 12:18 a.m. CST
by The PimpDragon
Why are people attacking a family film that has (a.) been highly successful and critically acclaimed, b.) offers a positive film that families can to see and (c.) gives us a comic book movie that is one of the finest examples of the genre and of what CGI is capable of? And attacking people who like it, too? As I said during Harry's review, if you don't agree - that's fine. But don't think your opinion is the only one that matters. It doesn't mean shit to me. I respect others' opinions, but I make my own. If kids and adults can get together and both enjoy this film (as was the case both times I saw it), then we should commend the filmmakers for doing a tremendous job. No matter what, it's a family film. Attacking it because of "logic flaws" or because it's not dark enough is just ridiculous and lame. The Incredibles still stands at the top of my film list this year alongside Sky Captain and the World of Tommorrow. Both are films that I can't wait to watch with my child when I have one. The Incredibles will be around for a long time, so deal with it!
Nov. 22, 2004, 12:32 a.m. CST
Im going to throw my hat in the 'best superhero film of all time' camp. Or at least joint best along side Batman (1).
Nov. 22, 2004, 12:33 a.m. CST
Finding Nemo was overrated. That 'decent family film' is sitting at 99% fresh! This was MUCH better.
"Your dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway." Walt Disney
Nov. 22, 2004, 5:33 a.m. CST
FluffyUnbound - I could not agree with you less and if I had more time I would be happy to educate you. But would it do any good since the very text in your post manages to indicate you have some blind spots when it comes to perception, metaphor, empathy and taste? Jesus
Nov. 22, 2004, 8:26 a.m. CST
by The PimpDragon
Why debate over the degree of which you liked a film? That's ridiculous! I liked this movie. Yeah, well I loved it! Fuck you! No, fuck you! And we all lose precious IQ points along the way. What difference does it make when it comes to the degree at which two people liked the same film? If you both liked it, great! If you didn't, fine! But why get into a fight over a film that both sides agree was a good movie? It makes no sense! That does NOT make sense! Why does Chewbacca live on Endor? That DOES NOT make sense! Look at the monkey. Look at the monkey! (sorry for my Johnny Cochran defense rambling!)
Nov. 22, 2004, 8:35 a.m. CST
It won't make that much. I've said it before and i'll say it again: Incredibles fails as a film for kids. It succeeds for adults, but not for kids. It won't get the multiple viewings from families who were dragged again and again by kids to Nemo and the Toy Story films. The film is too long for an animated film , has virtually no laughs and drags at times. The theatre I saw it in had all the kids wanting to leave well before it ended. Nemo is a better film for children.
Nov. 22, 2004, 10:13 a.m. CST
Spoken like a man who can't justify his own taste. "Don't have time"? Yeah, I could build a suspension bridge across the Atlantic Ocean - but fuck it, I don't have time. And just because you cry big girl-tears with drops shaped like hearts when we watch it, that doesn't make Iron Giant an empathy test. Hell, if the standard of quality is going to be the ability to prompt an empathy reaction, then Iron Giant is BLOWN THE FUCK AWAY by the animal shelter program on my local cable access channel. So I guess we need a different standard to determine if the film is good or not. And metaphor? METAPHOR? Iron Giant is so ham-fisted it makes old Superfriends cartoons look like haiku. // By the way, I'm just giving you shit. It should be obvious to anyone reading the whole thread that I chose to pick on Iron Giant to fuck with fuckknuckles and sparklecopy, who are all over everyone for "identifying" too strongly with a mass-marketed product in The Incredibles, when it's quite plain from their posts here and in other threads that they do likewise with The Iron Giant. Thanks for messing up a perfectly good flame.
Nov. 22, 2004, 11:01 a.m. CST
I've seen the Incredibles twice and have watched the new Iron Giant DVD three times. What makes it that much cooler is that I did it all with my 5-year old son who loved those two films as much as I did. I can't wait to take him to whatever Brad Bird does next. Also, Easter can't come fast enough so I can freeze frame some of those wonderful visuals in the Incredibles. Thanks for the amazing early Christmas present Pixar. The "Cars" trailer left me a little "ehh", but I learned long ago that teasers aren't Pixar's strength - the final product is, and my son and I will be in the theater opening weekend next fall.
Nov. 22, 2004, 11:16 a.m. CST
Okay folks, I'm not a huge animation geek. I really never enjoyed it and the only reason I've seen any of the big animated movies the last four years is because I've got a 4 1/2 year old kid and I like to go to the movies with him. That being said, the other week I bought him an Incredibles storybookg, and ever since he has dying to see The Incredibles. Finally saw it on Sunday and man, this film did not disappoint. I thought the flick was perfect - smart, funny, well produced, and well written. The characters were fleshed out, the villan had more motivation than any from any other hero movie or James Bond flick I ever say. It was just a really well done piece of work. And as for my 4 1/2 year old ? He might not have gotten all the sly pop-culture references, but he loved the characters and the action. He related to the family, he loved the characters (especially, inexplicably, Frozone) and he's been chattering about the film for the past 24 hours. As far as I'm concerned, it's the best animated movie I've ever seen (beating Bugs Life and Finding Nemo), and I can't wait for a sequel. Pixar - you're gold, baby.
Nov. 22, 2004, 11:30 a.m. CST
As far as I know, Disney has no creative control over anything PIXAR does. They just have distribution rights. That was the partnership. PIXAR didn't have the money to pay for advertising etc, so they partnered with Disney to take care of that end of the deal, for a cut of course. Now that PIXAR can stand on their own "two" feet, they don't feel that they need Disney, hence the break-up. . .as far as I know. If I am wrong, let me know, but otherwise, stop giveing Disney credit for any amount of creative force behind PIXAR's moview.
Nov. 22, 2004, 3:02 p.m. CST
I don't know if this has been brought up, but Violet's hair seems to be parted on different sides through the film (until she dons hers "supersuit" and puts it back.) I noticed the part changed during the dinner sequence as well as others. Great film.
Nov. 22, 2004, 4:31 p.m. CST
I enjoyed The Incredibles... but... there were too many familiar aspects to the movie... that reminded me of just a re-hash of previous films and tv shows I'd seen before. I was underwhelmed by the film due to the amount of praise it's gotten.
Nov. 22, 2004, 5:46 p.m. CST
Cool, you weren't wowed by it. But what's the point of screaming it from the rooftops over and over and over and over? The movie is making a ton of money, it's obviously a huge success, why exactly do you think ANYONE cares that you just thought it was a B+?
Nov. 22, 2004, 7:32 p.m. CST
Think for a moment... not everyone shares the same opinion about this movie. Maybe you need to actually read every post on this forum. It's interesting you seem to be wasting your time on people who just think the movie was a B+ (which is still not a bad grade). So stop crying and get over yourself.
Nov. 22, 2004, 7:42 p.m. CST
There are *some* people who insist on posting the same complaints over and over. If you're not one of them I'm not sure why you take offense to my post.
Nov. 22, 2004, 7:45 p.m. CST
What's the difference? Whether you like or hate the film you're giving your opinion, geeze relaxe. And it should be noted everyone who said they thought it was overrated(including myself), still said they liked it so what does that matter?
Nov. 22, 2004, 8 p.m. CST
Is it wrong that I wanted to bang her ? Cartoon or not, she had that awkward/sexy little geek girl thing going on (see Thora Birch in Ghostworld, for example)
Nov. 22, 2004, 8:05 p.m. CST
I'm perfectly fine with people giving their opinions, I've never said otherwise. My question is why do people insist on repeating themselves endlessly?
Nov. 22, 2004, 10:35 p.m. CST
It's heartening to see Pixar continue their streak of quality children's films, because I'm coming to believe that I'll be able to confidently sit back every year and enjoy a witty release from them, without any of the nervous anxiety of them bungling the job. The Incredibles is not a perfect film, nor does it quite match up to the best Pixar has offered us thus far; which is in my opinion 'Monster's Inc.' due to its warmth, great detail, supporting characters and pleasing 'Chinatown' style conspiracy - but it is great fun with a fine sense of pacing, character and dialogue. Holly Hunter especially shines as the put-upon mother, and Pixar show their instinctive knack for voice-casting with the rest of the team. True, the characters are very much like the superhero archetypes, but this works in its favour as we assess more the people behind the powers rather than their cool gimmicks. Could we warm as much to Mr. Incredible if he had new flashy tricks? This film is about 'The Golden Age' characters, simply sketched classic superheroes types that have universal appeal and can be recognised by any non-comic reading joe, without complicated back stories or origins to detract from the forward momentum of the story. In fact, aside from their powers, with the lack of mysterious pasts and unique origins, The Incredibles and Frozone come across as average people who are part of the community and not outside it, as superheroes in comics so often are. This lends extra power to the issue of conformity, there wouldn't be any struggle to their dilema if they didn't genuinely want to live a normal life AS WELL as revel in their special skills. This is where the intriguing villian Syndrome comes in - he wants to be up and above the community rather than part of it. He's every dark side of the 'special' individual - the arrogance of the genius, the bullying of the jock, the cliquey selfish nature of the obsessive fan. The Incredibles define themselves by their relationships with others and their standing within the community, Syndrome defines himself by his powers and need to be special. Society cannot afford a lone wolf. Likewise Mr Incredible cannot work without others and the acceptance and support of the community. Okay, it's a bit of an obvious premise and doesn't have the subtlty of adult pictures - but then it is saying different things in different ways than the usual bad-Disneyesque 'be true to yourself' and 'have friends' trite cliches. The frustration of Mr Incredible, trapped in a normal life, is a great driving force before the action kicks off, and makes every success against super-villainy and in reuniting his family all the more satisfying - leaving me with a big stupid grin. The animation is quality too, being uncluttered, to the point and consistent in its stylistic nature - something which the overkill of Lucas and 'Shark's Tale' should have taken into account. And the hair and sense of movement is quite astonishing. Are there problems? Yes. I was a little worried about the deaths of the henchmen in a kid's film, since it was a joyous knockabout ride that led to their demise. Mrs Incredible's little speech about the villains being ready to kill the kids was good in the context of showing that there are bad people out there, and it did have the guts to go through and show the henchmen as a dangerous threat - but still I think the traditional-comedy-narrow escapes-from-death-by-being knocked-out-or-immobilised fates for the henchmen should have been used, with Mr Incredible shown locking them up in a secure place on the island, and the police or UN moving in to arrest them later. The ironic justice of cape death was perfect, however - (he added, hypocritically). It would have been good to show the citizens comment on their exile of the superhero, "I blame the lawyers," and "You don't know what you got 'till it's gone," and even, "Hurrah! I missed them. Ah, wait. Does that mean we have to let Rorscach back out of jail now?" This would have made them seem a little less fickle. And more Underminer. I wanted more Underminer. With a Hans Moleman sidekick...... So, in all, a fine film for adult and kid and one with a genuine sense of imagination and a rich world for children to play in after they've seen the film. Pixar may not be geniuses, but they do make me smile, and that's enough for me. And for the perfect film I suggest you either grab 'The Life & Death of Colonel Blimp' and/or 'A Matter of Life and Death' (titled 'Stairway to Heaven' in the US). They were mythic British colour productions made in the 1940's, dabbling in fantasy and with a poetic sense of reality. I adore them and cannot recommend them strongly enough - they are also Martin Scorcese's fave films. Thanks for reading. Have a relaxed night reading a pleasing book and enjoying a good ale, or something. G'night!
Nov. 23, 2004, 9:01 a.m. CST
It's that the people who didn't like it as much are saying that the people who loved it have some defect in that they can't "see it for the mediocrity it is." Which is insulting. But not as insulting as this: if you didn't love the Incredibles, you are a soulless douche bag who has become so cynical in your need to trash anything that gives anyone else joy that you might as well take a gun, place it between your lips, and blow your motherfucking brains out, you useless waste of resources. Kisses.
Nov. 23, 2004, 9:13 a.m. CST
Holly Hunter's voice + THAT ASS... ay carumba! God bless Brad Bird & Pixar and all that they stand for.
Nov. 23, 2004, 9:47 a.m. CST
Take a look. It's all up there above us. "I loved this film! It's truly incredible!" "Then you're out of your mind, because I only merely liked it, which must mean you've been brainwashed by the hype machine." Or words to that effect. Had anyone only said, "Well, I'm glad you enjoyed the film, but I didn't really think it was all that great" instead of calling other people's critical faculties into question, none of this would have happened. But then again, this is precisely what you wanted to happen, because you don't truly believe the movie is mediocre, and you're only playing the part in order to start arguments. Or at least you did at first, but now you're so entrenched in this position that you've accepted it, thereby ruining any chance that could actually enjoy the movie for what it is, on whatever level you could. It's tainted now, and the more you rip on it, the more you hate it. That's pretty fucking sad. You're pretty fucking sad. For the record, I do actually think the Incredibles is the best superhero movie made so far, or at least it's on par with Spider-Man 2 and X-Men 2. But that doesn't make it better than Toy Story 1 & 2, or Sideways, or even Garden State for that matter. But then again, that's just my opinion.
Nov. 23, 2004, 11:19 a.m. CST
Did I hit a little too close to the mark when I called you pretty fucking sad? Go back to the other thread and take a look. You, or sparklehorse, or some other troll first said that those who loved the film were just buying into the hype. By the way, I experienced no sort of spontaneous emission of any sort while watching the Incredibles. Just smiled widely and ejoyed a very, very well-made movie. Iron Giant sucks.
Nov. 23, 2004, 11:55 a.m. CST
Get off the computer before your daddy catches you. Listen up, cause this is the last time I'm wasting Harry's bandwidth on you: if you didn't love the movie as much as I did, that's your opinion. But don't tell me, or anyone else for that matter, that I have a problem or that I mindlessly follow the hype just because I found more to enjoy in a movie than you did. And work on your snappy comeback patter, because "mortslime" is pretty weak. Like that episode of South Park when the kids went to a timeshare in Aspen and some idiot kept saying "Stan Darsh." You're a bad copy of a weak parody of an ineffectual troll. So I'm leaving now.
Nov. 23, 2004, 1:09 p.m. CST
I'm not here to argue with you Mindbender. Your post is right after mine, and makes a reference to mine... so hence... I got the impression you were aiming at me. Have I been kicking and screaming? Have I been taunting those who either love or hate The Incredibles? Hating, liking or loving any movie is all subjective. I don't hate The Incredibles. I liked it. I don't love it. I can take a step back and look at it for the movie it as... and say... "it was well done, but I don't consider it a masterpiece". The mob mentality that lives in ANY FORUM demonstrates how narrow minded some people can be. Most of the posting is done by them.
Nov. 24, 2004, 3:23 p.m. CST
.... knucklefuck fucklenuck your mama, knucklefuck a negro nucklefuck Betsy FUCKING ROSS. You've been nucklefucked BITCH... knucklefuck, fucknuckle, nuckfuckle, fucklenuck nucklefuck nucklefuck nucklefuck... SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU NUCKLE-DRAGGING TROGLODYTE. It wasn't funny the first dozen times fucknuckle knucklefuck fuckin' HILARIOUS Ha ha. Knucklefuck this, fucknuckle that. How about you go NUCKLEFUCK yourself asswipe and leave the rest of us THE NUCKLEFUCK ALONE?! Pathetic. I hope you die slowly and painfully...
Nov. 24, 2004, 3:31 p.m. CST
KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK fuck your own knucklefuckknuckfuck off.....
Nov. 26, 2004, 10:31 a.m. CST
by Lost Skeleton
...one of the best films this year. A classic that is much better than anything Pixar has put out...including Monsters, Inc. and Finding Nemo (both great movies in their own right)
Nov. 26, 2004, 1:56 p.m. CST
... you miserable excuse for a human being, you shocking waste of human fats and fluids... BTW: Coherency counts when posting to a public message forum Mr. 'Digitalum Intercoursicus', you ought to attempt it sometime...
Nov. 28, 2004, 1:44 a.m. CST
By far the most eerie comment since The Incredibles' ideology wasn't much different from Ayn Rand's. I, for one, was vaguely offended by a lot of the movie, and worry about the ideas it may instill in children. I'm not usually the morality police, but as a disabled, certainly not Aryan person, I was alarmed at all the talk of superiority and strength being in one's "blood," which reached creepy heights in Dash's race at the end. And as for the short that preceded it, I was taken aback by the (paraphrased) comment of "At least you've got two legs and two arms! You're complete!" Cry "overreaction" if you must, but I was a bit creeped out and disenchanted from then on.
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