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Herc Loves ENTERPRISE 4.7!!& Gives First Third of Vulcan Arc Four Stars!!

Published at: Nov. 19, 2004, 4:45 p.m. CST

Star Trek: Enterprise 4.7 FAQ

What’s it called?
“The Forge.”

Who’s responsible?
Teleplay is credited to Judith Reeves-Stevens and Garfield Stevens, who contribute their first “Trek” teleplay after authoring a gazillion “Trek” novels, including “Federation,” “Prime Directive,” “Worlds in Collision,” “Captain’s Blood,” “Captain’s Glory,” “Captain’s Peril,” “Spectre,” “The Return,” the DS9 “Millennium” trilogy, “Ashes of Eden,” “Odyssey,” “Dark Victory,” “Avenger,” “Preserver” and “Memory Prime.”

What does TV Guide say?
“The crew joins forces with Vulcan authorities to investigate a deadly bombing of Earth’s embassy, which may be the work of a sect devoted to the logical teaching of Surak, the father of Vulcan philosophy.”

Surak, who got the savage Vulcans to calm the frick down centuries ago, is now inspiring embassy bombings?
T’Pol explains that the Vulcan suspects, the Syranites, are a small group who “follow a corrupted form of Surak’s teachings.”

T’Pol is back on Vulcan only four episodes after wedding Koss? What’s doing with hubby?
It looks at first like there will be no big reunion. T’Pol seems relieved when Archer says he’ll need to keep her on the bombing investigation full-time. “My mother hasn’t responded to my communiqués; it’s not unusual for her to become lost in her work. As for my … husband, our arrangement remains unchanged.”

Any action on the Trip/T’Pol front?
T’Pol seems only annoyed when Koss finally turns up.

The big news?
“The Forge” is not only one of the best episodes of “Enterprise” ever aired, it is one of the best episodes of “Star Trek.” The Stevenses demonstrate tonight that they know how to forge a richly compelling storyline and excite “Trek" fans beyond superficialities, and it’s a crime they had to wait this long to be recruited into the TV side of the franchise. Many may grow giddy at the cleverness with which this installment, in the space of 43 minutes, neatly dances around nearly 40 years of Vulcanian inconsistencies. (“The Forge” is, in fact, so much fun I vote its authors be given first crack at the next movie's screenplay!)

The bigger news?
We get a lot of specifics on Vulcan history. By my calculations, it turns out Surak lived around 350 A.D., and that Vulcans invented faster-than-light travel around the time of the American Civil War.

The biggest news?
There’s lots! Invisotext on! Admiral Forrest, a recurring member of the cast since the “Enterprise” pilot, dies in the opening minutes saving Ambassador Soval’s life. It turns out T’Pol and Spock share, in addition to many other things, a taste in pets. T’Pol learns that someone close to her is a Syranite. And the Syranite suspected of the bombing is T’Pau, who will eventually officiate at Spock’s divorce!

What else is TV Guide not telling us?
In the first act’s opening minutes, we learn much about the Vulcans’ attitudes toward humanity. Details lurk in the invisotext.
. “We don’t know what to do about humans,” Soval confides to Admiral Forrest. “Of all the species we’ve made contact with, yours is the only one we can’t define. You have the arrogance of Andorians, the stubborn pride of Tellarites, one moment you’re as driven by your emotions as Klingons and the next you confound us all by suddenly embracing logic.”
. “I’m sure those qualities are found in every species,” counters Forrest.
. “Not in such confusing abundance.”
. “Ambassador, are Vulcans afraid of humans? Why?”
. “Because there is one species you remind us of.”
. “Vulcans,” decides Forrest.
. “We had our wars, admiral, just as humans did. Our planet was devastated and our civilization nearly destroyed. Logic saved us, but it took almost 1,500 years for us to rebuild our world and travel to the stars. You humans did the same in less than a century. There are those in the high command who wonder what humans would achieve in the century to come. And they don’t like the answer.”

What’s good?
The pacing. The twists. The characterization. The ideas. The continuity porn. The sheer quantity of plot. Arev. Soval. The way the bombing galvanizes a bond between longtime antagonists Soval and Archer. Sweaty Hoshi in her tank top and gym shorts. “I find it familiar.” “Vulcan children are never late with their sehlats’ dinner.” “Vulcans never lie.” “I can perform the meld.” “I think you’ve been told many things about us that aren’t true.” “You must carry it to sanctuary.” “‘Remember.’ Remember what?” “You’re not Vulcan.” So much more.

What’s not so good?
I fear that the next two installments, authored by Andre Bormanis ("Extinction," "Countdown") and Mike Sussman ("Home," "The Augments"), may betray the greatness of "The Forge." But I hope I'm wrong.

How does it end, spoiler-boy?
“Don’t resist.” “What do you mean?”

Herc’s rating for “Star Trek: Enterprise” 4.7?

****

The Hercules T. Strong Rating System:
***** better than we deserve
**** better than most motion pictures
*** actually worth your valuable time
** as horrible as most stuff on TV
* makes you quietly pray for bulletins

8 p.m. Friday. UPN.

I am – Hercules!!





Looking for bumper stickers, plush toys and girls’ underwear covered with cute cartoon double-amputees? Visit The Herc Store!

Readers Talkback

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  • Nov. 19, 2004, 4:51 p.m. CST

    A well-reviewed Trek! Woo-hoo!

    by chrth

    Of course, I need to wait until tomorrow night to watch (lousy UPN 14), but I will do so! MAKE IT SO!

  • Nov. 19, 2004, 5:08 p.m. CST

    Is this thing still on?

    by The Nihilist

    Sigh...give it up. Everything is a retread. Every story has been done in a previous series or movie. All they're doing is fucking up the beloved history and continuity of the universe. Is there a site out there comparable to The West Wing's dontsaveourshow.com? A site for those of us who know that the best thing that could happen to Star Trek now would be for this show to be euthanized, for the whole series to lie fallow for awhile, for Brannon and Braga to find work at a McDonald's somewhere, and for Star Trek to come back some day in a post TNG timeline with a fresh approach and, even more importantly, a fresh creative crew? Please God, make it happen...

  • Nov. 19, 2004, 5:14 p.m. CST

    One of the best episode of Trek?

    by Steve Zodiac

    Damn, that remains to be seen...

  • Nov. 19, 2004, 5:21 p.m. CST

    The "Subject: Is this thing still on? " post never gets old

    by cornstalkwalker

    Enterprise is a great show. You don't have to watch if you don't want to. And you certainly don't have to post if you don't want to.

  • Nov. 19, 2004, 5:39 p.m. CST

    3 and half years later

    by Creflo A. Dollar

    ...and they finally make a good episode? Better late than never, I suppose.

  • Nov. 19, 2004, 5:46 p.m. CST

    Okay, Herc...

    by Childe Roland

    ...and all you Enterprise supporters who have been screaming at folks like me to shut up about how bad Enterprise is compared to old Trek. I'm going to watch tonight, based on this review (I tried to watch two weeks ago based on a Herc review but was so sickened by what I saw that I didn't make it all the way through). I'm going to watch the whole episode and see if there's any basis in reality for the claim that this not only holds a candle to the old trek but should be considered as good if not better as some of the best episodes and/or films. I'll come back and give an honest and informed opinion (as someone who's seen every piece of pre-Voyager Trek ever aired or screened... and far too much of what has come since) on Monday. Lord help you, Herc, if this turns out to be more wishful fanboy hyperbole.

  • Nov. 19, 2004, 5:49 p.m. CST

    Yes, I loved it too!!! Awesome dialogue and great storytelling.

    by aceattorney

    excellent episode...first good one of the season.

  • Nov. 19, 2004, 5:49 p.m. CST

    But Battlestar Gallactica still pwnz star trek LMFAO

    by aceattorney

    hi

  • Nov. 19, 2004, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Fantastic!!!! Season-saving episode!!!

    by zillabeast

    I was really blown away at how goddamn good "The Forge" was. The last 2 episodes of the Augments arc really let me down big time, and I was totally convinced that ENT was going down the tube from here on out and shut down for good. However, if Manny Cotto and crew can keep pumping out Trek like this, we've got a shot at a future here!!! Lord knows they'll need all the great stories they can get with BATTLESTAR GALACTICA ready to dominate science fiction TV here in just a couple of months!!!

  • Nov. 19, 2004, 6:47 p.m. CST

    Writers

    by RenoNevada2000

    Would it kill the producers to allow just one writer or writing team to shepard a story arc from start to finish? I bet the uneveness of the Augments arc would never have happened if they did...

  • Nov. 19, 2004, 7:18 p.m. CST

    A lack of creativity

    by ciardi

    From the commercials, this arc seems to mine material from the Wrath of Khan ending/Search for Spock premise. If its well-realized, fine. But falling so fast on the heels of a Wrath of Khan prequel arc, the writers of Enterprise seem to lack any original ideas. Delving into Trek history is fine, but if you're not going to explore new territory, then why bother with a series at all. Just a thought. I could be wrong.

  • Nov. 19, 2004, 8:26 p.m. CST

    Are These Talkbackers Still trying To make their pot shots stick

    by Real Deal

    Sound like a good episode to me. What it doesn't sound like at all is the Search For Spock. Head shakes.

  • Nov. 19, 2004, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Holy shit. The was good. "DS9" good.

    by Rufus_T_Firefly

    I can't believe I just typed that. Manny Coto, if you're reading this, I'm prepared to offer myself for my first homosexual experience. I'm all yours, big boy.

  • Nov. 19, 2004, 10:38 p.m. CST

    Very good episode. Didn't rip off anything.

    by I Dunno

    It referenced a lot of things about Vulcans from TOS and Trek 3&4 but that's just showing that the writers know what their talking about and shows continuity.

  • Nov. 19, 2004, 11:20 p.m. CST

    Still no Dog, but at least he was mentioned.

    by cookylamoo

  • Nov. 20, 2004, 12:30 a.m. CST

    WOW!

    by Real Deal

    What a good, solid, Star Trek episode! Well I'm sorry but the nay sayers can flap their jaws about this but there's really not much to pick on in this the first of 3 in the vulcan arc. Just a fine episode!

  • Nov. 20, 2004, 12:48 a.m. CST

    Oh yeah...one of the best ever!

    by thevision

    Christ, this episode was captivating, can't believe it took this long for the producers to bring these writers in the TV side...oops, almost forgot, we're talking BermanBraga! Michael Nouri has joined Leonard Nimoy and Mark Lenard as one of the best portrayals of a Vulcan, best line was about Surak and "the final battle with the ones who flew under the wings of the Raptor..." christ, that line gave me goosebumps! Imagine if "Enterprise" did these episodes last year or better yet Season 2; they wouldn't be fighting for a Season 5. I hope the remainder of the arc is just as good. Goddamn this episode was perfect!

  • Nov. 20, 2004, 4:33 a.m. CST

    Props to the Stevenses! *SPOILERS*

    by RaulMonkey

    Yeah, that actually was pretty good. Instead of just churning out the same lame-ass stories from Voyager that happen to be set in the 22nd century, this episode could not have taken place at any other time. In other words, this is the sort of episode that ENTERPRISE ought to be filled with. We get to understand the basis for so many of the Vulcan beliefs and characteristics that we're familiar with from the first four series. Mind melding used to be considered deviant behavior! The belief in the katra--what we could have presumed was commonplace in Vulcan society from the time of Surak, and what we know has a basis in reality from SEARCH FOR SPOCK--used to be held only by a fringe sect! These are major revelations. The only other episode of ENTERPRISE that I've seen fit into and modify the canon so well was "Rogue Planet" from the first season, where the good-intentioned meddling of Archer and Phlox in the era before the Prime Directive turns the poor, hunted metamorphs on the rogue planet into the Founders of the Dominion. That episode was doubly cool because it didn't spell everything out. The far reaching ramifications of what happened were left for the people who know their shit to piece together, and anybody who never watched DS9 beyond season two got just another boring episode of ENTERPRISE. Back to "The Forge," I think it proves what I've been saying about Star Trek for the last five years: there is no beating of a dead horse going on. The quality of the shows depend strictly on the talent involved.

  • Nov. 20, 2004, 4:54 a.m. CST

    The Nihilist

    by RaulMonkey

    At the same time, I would like to express my empathy for people like The Nihilist. When I was watching "The Forge" and realizing that it wasn't a complete turd, I was thankful for some good Star Trek, but I was also kind of let down that ENTERPRISE wasn't on the fast track to cancellation and the good long break that Star Trek probably needs. I was like, C'mon, Reeves-Stevenses! We're trying to hit rock bottom here! But like I said, it's all about the talent involved, so the show might be able to regain its former glories if enough fresh blood gets pumped in. Five years or so off the air still seems kinda attractive though. It might do wonders.

  • Nov. 20, 2004, 10:13 a.m. CST

    Indeed, a great episode.

    by MasterShake

    As others have stated, this is what Enterprise should have been like from the beginning. If this is really the last season, i'd like to see the writers take a no-holds barred, take-no-prisoners approach to the rest of the season. Let's kill off some major characters (besides Forrest). Hell, destroy the crappy NX-01 and give them a cool new ship (it's only pixels anyway, right?), and god, please let the next ship have shields. I am so friggin tied of hearing "Polarize the hull plating!". I would be surprised, but pleased, if enough great episodes were generated this season to go on to season six. I say if Star Trek is good, keep it on the air, if it sucks, give it a break. I'm still shuddering with fear from what Frakes might do with a Starfleet Acadamy show, could be the nail in the coffin for Trek for all time.

  • Nov. 20, 2004, 11:08 a.m. CST

    Ok it was good, but...

    by Kelvington

    let's not get carried away, we have had four years of SHIT from Rick and company, don't wet yourselves when a writer and an editor get their wet farts in sync once in four years and grind out something watch able. Compared to ANY episode of DS9, this series sucks donkey dicks. Are we really going to applaud because they rip themselves off? Can't they come up with just one original percept that doesn't take from the original series, or try to make itself important by doing something first? Mindmelds, soul transfer, secret Vulcan things? If memory serves, in Kirk's time, no one even had a clue about Pon'far let alone soul transfer and the like. So my guess is that something really terrible happens at the end of the series, because every log entry and memory of all the things Enterprise has done, has to go away for the rest of Trek to be correct. Don't you think just once in the rest of the series they would have mentioned that little thing that happened on earth that killed seven million people? Kirk, Picard or someone should have at least said, let's not forget... Viet Nam, the Xindi, or the massacre at (insert unknown reference here) I didn't break my ankles jumping off the Enterprise band wagon, I was pushed off after the first few episodes, now I watch it just to see how bad, bad can get. Plus Phlox is pretty well done. This show makes even Voyager look good, which is damn hard to do. Just my 2

  • Nov. 20, 2004, 12:36 p.m. CST

    The Stevens

    by CHEWBLACCA

    They can only be good for the series. I've only read the books that they've co-written (OK, we all know that they wrote them) with Shatner and their way of tying the old to the new is flawless. Their Trek knowledge seems endless. It's too bad they didn't write the entire story arc. Maybe they at least plotted it out.

  • Nov. 20, 2004, 3:44 p.m. CST

    You had me at Sweaty Hoshi...

    by NNNOOO!!!

    ... but the whole ep is definitely solid. We're finally starting to see recognizable Vulcans-- turns out some of them were hiding in plain sight too. "Wings of the Raptor"-- took me a while but that's a Romulan reference alright. One quibble: What was with "Seventeen Years Ago"? Do they mean 17 years before a hundred years from now-- or 1987?

  • Nov. 20, 2004, 4:12 p.m. CST

    Holy shit that episode rocked..

    by Spacesheik

    THE FORGE was awesome and its obvious these two Shatner collaborators are are a great shot in the arm to this shit STAR TREK incarnation. Fuck ENTERPRISE, let them write a movie script featuring the return of both Kirk and Spock and set it amidst a Vulcan civil war or something. It would be huge.

  • Nov. 20, 2004, 9:46 p.m. CST

    Uh, Kelvington, you are aware B&B are no longer in the seat now,

    by The Killer-Goat

  • Nov. 20, 2004, 10:20 p.m. CST

    See, for people like Kelvington, nothing will satisfy.

    by I Dunno

    Now any reference to the original series for continuity's sake is a RIPOFF. Nothing major can happen in Enterprise because Kirk and/or Picard would have mentioned it in casual conversation at some point. Jebus. No one on this site has the capacity to change their mind about anything. They'll always find something to bitch about, even if it's completly unfounded and ludicrous. I for one pretty much gave up on Enterprise but with this season I have hope that it'll be at least better than V'ger.

  • Nov. 20, 2004, 11:26 p.m. CST

    I Dunno, I agree with you to a point...

    by Kelvington

    I think that after 4 years of Enterprise (and years of Lucas) just tearing down our memories and childhood, I'm probably not capable of being completely open minded anymore. But I'm intelligent enough to listen with an open mind, however, B&B (even though they might not be in charge, their names still come up as Executive Producers, if I recall, so they are responsible) have really torn the heart out of Trek and I think a lot of fans feel like me, hence the lousy ratings. Let's be honest, if TNG was not syndicated it would have probably gotten a 17 to 22 share on UPN. And yes, all the series have clunkers, but it seems it's more of a rule for Enterprise, than an exception. I don't blame the writers too much, nor the actors, but the producers who (should) be the guiding force of the series. I'm really tired of Enterprise walking on every precept TOS set up, including female captains, I guess "Turnabout Intruder" now has no reason to happen. Ya, I know we have to change with the times and it was a stupid idea to begin with, but still, it was there in TOS. I think they could have easily set this series in Picard's era, or between Kirk and Picard or whenever. But if your going to make a prequel, you have to follow the rules and stories that will come (mostly). I'm going to try hard to have an open mind, and perhaps even change it with Enterprise this year just to prove some people on this site can listen and be influenced by intelligent polite debate. I remind you that I started my last post off with, this WAS a good episode. But if they show one more Borg, Tribble, or if Data or 7of9 appears on the series, from the future or something... (technically they could find Data's head in that mine on earth, it's just sitting there) then I'm loading up the old rifle and trying to get Berman and Lucas in a single shot, they must hang out together right? Nobody could screw things up this much and not know each other. By the way I'm just kidding about shooting them... I'm more of a poison guy. Trek has a huge history... it shouldn't be ignored. I think we used to call it canon. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it... in summer school. -Buffy Summers

  • Nov. 20, 2004, 11:44 p.m. CST

    I think they've done fairly well with continuity so far.

    by I Dunno

    Although I didn't know about the female captain thing. Then again rules and policies change and Starfleet doesn't even fully exist yet. The fact is, if you want to see errors in continuity, you'll find them. If you want to beleive that they're preserving continuity, you can find a rationalization for those "errors". So far I haven't seen anything earth shattering continuity-wise. It's not like TOS made it easy. It doesn't even follow its own continuity at times. And I don't know why Lucas is beng dragged into this. Well, besides the fact that this is AICN and Lucas is brought into every thread, no matter what the subject. If you're referring to continuity errors in Star Wars, there aren't any. If you're simply saying that the prequels suck, that's a matter of opinion. I happen to like them.

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 3:10 a.m. CST

    The Shapeshifters in "Rogue Planet" weren't The Founders

    by Col. Klink

    For one thing, they were telepathic. But most importantly, the woman shapeshifter reveals her true form at the end of the episode and looks like a giant worm.

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 5:31 a.m. CST

    Be still my heart for a good episode

    by bubcus

    Just the opening dialogue had my jaw drop is awe. This episode was absolutely brilliant. Brent Spiner stealing the show in the three previous gems and now this piece of wonder. Whoever wrote this episode needs to write the rest of the Enterprise series. Thank you for finally giving us a great episode! I felt as happy as I do when I watch Wonderfalls. Elation! I can't wait for next week - may it not let us down!

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 5:33 a.m. CST

    God help me, Herc was right, this ep was... good!

    by JT Kirk

    Herc pointing out that it was authored by the writers of Shatner's "The Return", easily one of the best Trek novels of all time - a book which took up where the shitty film Generations left off and made a fantastic cross-Trek-generational tale of adventure and excitement riffing off so many pieces of Trek lore and tying them all together in a great package - tells me all I need know about why this ep of "Enterprise" worked when so many others did not. It fucking kicked ass! The "bomber who is actually an insider" part of the plot felt a little threadbare from all the times we've seen Trek use it before, but the rest was fucking gold! Transforming so many elements from the various shows & films and tying them into the shoddy "Enterprise" Vulcans, creating a religion which has been driven into hiding by a corrupt element of the government but will soon again become the major religion of their culture was absolute genius. Even the clunkiest moments of this part of the ep felt ok afterwards because so much was turned on its ear. So much of the Vulcan stuff from ST 3 and 4 really comes in handy here, a lot of good stuff which lays a nice groundwork without crossing the "look at which Trek show we're referencing!!!" boundry; talking about Surak and having T'Pau doing something in her religion before she turned down a seat on the Federation council was another solid touch while AVOIDING slapping the audience around with over-the-top references that don't mean shit in the long run that this series has been so oft to do. ------------- ******* --- I hope Herc is wrong about the follow-up eps being unable to finish what this ep delivers upon because if Herc's wrong then this "event" will go a lot further to legitimize the series but if Herc's right then "The Forge" will simply have been a brief fluke snuffed out by problems like those which suffocated Voyager. I think Herc was overstating this as one of the BEST TREK EPS EVER but it's damn good work and probably the best ep "Enterprise" will ever enjoy.

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 5:44 a.m. CST

    RaulMonkey

    by JT Kirk

    I think you're off-base with that Ent ep "Rogue Planet". The shapeshifters of that ep had telepathic abilities and emitted chemicals that could be tracked, things which the Founders of DS9 have never shown any ability to do. Moreover, a more damning point against your theory is that the shapeshifters of "Rogue Planet" were found in the Alpha quadrant, it would take hundreds of years for them to reach the Gamma quadrant where DS9 finds them using only the 22nd-century warp technology available at that time.

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 12:54 p.m. CST

    Enterprise Has Hit It

    by atomheartbrother

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 12:59 p.m. CST

    Enterprise Has Hit It's Stride

    by atomheartbrother

    sorry bout that. yeah, that episode was excellent, and a trek joy to behold. any word on the ever important ratings, or is it too late to lure back the lapse catholics out there? extra kudos to the haters on this weeks talkback for sounding out of step with reality; clearly this is a good sign for the series.

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 1:19 p.m. CST

    too little, too late

    by DarthHomercles

    ENTERPRISE is doomed. Star Trek needs a break. And new blood. It needs to quit recycling the same 6 stories in all the different series. And most of all, it needs ALF. Word.

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 5:58 p.m. CST

    Is Battlestar Gallactica skipping a week?

    by Trik

    By my gonkulations ep 6 should be hitting the torrents. But it hasn't...

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 7:34 p.m. CST

    Better

    by Electric_Monk

    Got to say, this was perhaps the BEST episode ENT has yet offered. A very good script -and that's because novelist need to understand story and characterization - that sort resets (and this time in a good way) the entire series. I have a few quibbles, such as Soval's sudden love for humans and their goals, Bakula's continued bad acting and some cheesy effects in the desert (here's were the cheapness of the budget comes into focus). Got to say, T'Pol has become my favorite character (and I have more respect for Jolene Blalock, as she also blames Braga for ENT's failures: In the British periodical SFX Magazine, Blalock - who has been critical of many elements of ENT before, not least being the development of her own character went a step further and forthrightly attacked the show's administration. In the interview Blalock noted that she was very pleased to have new showrunner Manny Coto at the helm. But when asked why he wasn't promoted sooner, Blalock launched into a scathing tirade on the Enterprise management, though she did not specify which individual(s) she was referring to {but, who elese can it be?}.“Because it’s the same in any industry... You have this head guy who's some kind of ancient old croaker with no concept of the real world outside, with his fine wine and his, er, crumpets," said Blalock. "And what are ya gonna tell them? ‘Give it up’? ‘Go home, be with your wife, go play golf’? No - then ya got no job! A powerful job is your identity. Give that up, and who are you? What the hell are you gonna do with all that time? You can’t tell people what to do anymore!” Blalock also reiterated her displeasure with the way her character and the show in general has been taken, particularly over the past season, when intimate scenes were shown involving her and Connor Trineer's character Charles 'Trip' Tucker III. “You can’t substitute tits and ass for good storytelling. You can have both, but you can't substitute one for the other, because the audience is not stupid. You can’t just throw in frivolous, uncharacteristic... well, bull and think it's gonna help the ratings!"). Can they keep it up with out resorting to stunt casting and more bland action over story?

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 8:47 p.m. CST

    Kelvington---Kirk and crew may not have known about the Katra in

    by George Newman

    He had hope, but was totally crushed Kirk told him that Spock was unable to touch him and make the transfer. The Katra was definitely a common thing (as common as death/self-sacrifice can get) in the Kirk film era, Humans just didn't seem to know. And so what if Archer doesn't not share every one of his personal experiences with the historians or captain's log? Captain's blatantly withhold informations at times.... This reminds me of one of my favorite DS9 moments (but i can't recall the ep) when Sisko was faced with some morally questionable decision.. Oh, yes, he was given the opportunity to pit the the Romulans(?maybe not?) against the Dominion, with a fake video recording. To do this would help in the war effort, but it was morally reprehensible. Sisko did what was necessary to help the war. Throughout the Ep. he had been narrating/dictating to his Captain's Log, but in the end he deleted the entry....I know that these 2 situations are different, but the act of not recording everything is the point....That was a crappy argument, but I had a great time reminiscing,,,*sigh of satisfaction*

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 8:51 p.m. CST

    Awesome Episode, by the way. I didn't catch the review, but rath

    by George Newman

    It's really difficult to watch this show in jacksonville and gainesville: UPN is channel-less. In jax, UPN primetime airs at 11 PM on FOX after the 10 o' clock news. In g-ville it shows during the day-time on CBS i think.......Complete crap.

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 8:53 p.m. CST

    if anyone has anything bad to say about this episode then YOU ar

    by Tall_Boy

    yah, this means you, slutbags.

  • Their Trek novels have been good. They know and respect the Star Trek continuity. They have good ideas about going boldly. But I cannot forget or forgive the B&B crap.

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 10:28 p.m. CST

    Polite Discourse...

    by Kelvington

    First let me say, polite discourse is good for this forum. That being said, I agree with the log entry stuff George mentions. However, there

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 10:39 p.m. CST

    The

    by Col. Klink

    Don't let Darth Lucas use his Sith powers to cloud our minds and make us forget that!

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 10:41 p.m. CST

    Herc, you're officially insane... This episode was TERRIBLE!

    by Holly_Wight

    On a whim I watched the show once more, and yet again B&B have displayed their desire to piss on everything Rodenberry ever created, while throwing his characters into the storyline and thoroughly fucking them up. I won't even bother to list the problems with this episode, but it is NOT one of the best Trek episodes ever. Not by a motherfucking long shot, my dear, deluded Buffy fan. It was more along the lines of being a slap in the face to any long-time Star Trek fan, and another attempt by B&B to rewrite Rodenberry's universe for their own gratification. It SUCKED, Herc. You're crazy if you think this was good TV, or good Trek. Watch NEWVOYAGES.COM for real episodes of Trek... This Enterprise crap hasn't improved at all. It's not worse than Voyager (nothing is) but it's certainly pretty low in the scale of Star Trek shows.

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 10:56 p.m. CST

    Holly_Wight reveals himself to be a newvoyages.com fan therefore

    by Tall_Boy

    B&B don't run the show anymore, genius. Get a frickin clue.

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 10:59 p.m. CST

    also most of the Vulcan history in this episode came mostly from

    by Tall_Boy

    So suck it, fanyboy who cries "B&B! B&B! B&B!" So much stupidity wasted brought forth from you in your life time. Wow. It kind of makes me doubt the existence of God.

  • Nov. 21, 2004, 11:44 p.m. CST

    Among the Best of Star Trek

    by symphy

    ...and better than even the best of Voyager; certainly an equal to the best of TOS, TNG, and DS9. After watching it I actually went onto aintitcool to see Herc try and trash it, and I'm SO glad he agreed with me! I think Herc is hard on Enterprise sometimes (I actually thought the final Augments episode was handed in pretty slick fashion; 3.5 on his scale instead of 2.5) but this was phenomenal. I'm making a VHS off my ReplayTV and sending it to my father who is a far bigger Trek fan than me and gave up on Enterprise after the second episode of it's opening season; the Vulcan mythology was amazing and in ONE EPISODE they explained (and with shocking subtlety) every single continuity nitpick Enterprise has ever had with TOS/TNG. Just, awesome. THANK YOU B&B FOR GETTING DECENT WRITERS FOR A CHANGE!!

  • Nov. 22, 2004, 12:01 a.m. CST

    Pretty good

    by Oknight

    I have to admit, this is the first time I've been watching Enterprise and thinking "hey, I'm really glad I'm watching this". I won't say its better than the best DS9 (which was pretty good), but its better than 90% of Trek since they fired Melinda Snodgrass. Hey, now there's an idea-- how about hiring actual SF writers?

  • Nov. 22, 2004, 12:52 a.m. CST

    Kelvington: "after 4 years of Enterprise (and years of Lucas) ju

    by Triumph poops!

    Yeah, yeah, yeah... you were butt raped... your childhood was stolen by the big, bad STAR TREK show and by Lucas too. Yadda, yadda, yadda... blah, blah, blah. >YAWN< Boy, maybe some day when some of you clods actually leave your parent's basements and in the immortal words of William Shatner "Get a life" and go kiss some girls, maybe you'll stop posting such ridiculous whines that only go to show what sad, eye-rolling, stick in the mud twats you must be in life to be around now. Here's a tip for you all: ENTERPRISE or Lucas NEVER RAPED YOUR CHILDHOODS and, worse, the child in you is longs since DEAD anyway since you've all grown up into cynical, whiny, cry baby twats. Give it a rest already! Here's a tip as an example: You don't like the prequels? Fine. Then don't go to EPISODE 3. It'll just make the line shorter for those of us who want to get in and enjoy it! But quit whining about everything and ruining the mood for those of us who ARE enjoying things...

  • Nov. 22, 2004, 1:10 a.m. CST

    Damn, Holly_Wight, you just got bitch slapped.

    by I Dunno

    I think you should list those continuity problems that you don't have time for or else get another screen name because at this point in time you look like a jackass. ... This wasn't the best episode of ST. There were episodes of DS9 that were pure genius, the one where Sisko goes along with the nefarious plan to bring the Romulans into the Dominion War comes to mind. But I can't think of any episode or movie that referenced such a wide range of sources and attempted such continuity as this one. ... Face it, the original series didn't know what the hell they were doing. There were inconsistencies all over the place, especially regarding the Vulcans. This one episode showed that at least some of these inconsistencies could be explained. At the very least they're trying. I haven't seen a Trek movie or TV show "try" since DS9 went off the air.

  • Nov. 22, 2004, 1:26 a.m. CST

    Hey,,,, Kelvington is no raped-child whiner--i feel his fears ar

    by George Newman

    That movie is brilliant.

  • Nov. 22, 2004, 2:46 a.m. CST

    I think The Cable Guy being "brilliant" is a bit stretching it.

    by I Dunno

    It's definitly my favorite Jim Carrey movie (it was a short list) and the Trek references were cool but let's not get crazy. So I guess it's yours and the other guy's assertion that nothing from TOS or the films can ever be referenced because that would constitute a rip off of previous material. At the same time, if elements of previous episodes and movies aren't mentioned, then it's a continuity error because, why wouldn't theyhave mentioned them? I have a fix for your dillema. Watch FarScape. The muppets are really cute.

  • Nov. 22, 2004, 8:21 a.m. CST

    Just FYI...

    by Kelvington

    I never used the term

  • Nov. 22, 2004, 10:47 a.m. CST

    I know what I hate...

    by Childe Roland

    ...and I didn't hate this episode. It was very watchable and entertaining and felt like a smart enough nod to the Trek of old that I didn't once get the sense it was just rehashing or ripping anything off from the stories that had come before in other shows. That said... it was not one of the best Trek stories I've ever watched. It was good, but still pales in comparison to some of the very best DS9 or TNG episodes and movies like 2, 6 & 7 (which succeeded in being a great Trek story even though it was, essentially, a rip off of 2). This was on par with some of the more watchable episodes of TOS (not the best episodes, mind you), but that's about as far as I'm willing to take my praise. With all the Trek we've had, it's damned tough to be both original and good within the established framework (which may be why this series so often strayed outside of it with such disastrous results). This episode came close on the former point (by making some familiar elements feel fresh or at least relevant) and landed comfortably on the latter, but it is the first episode of this show in five years to succeed in those regards. To say that it is indicative of a trend (improvement of the show overall) simply because it is your most recent impression is scientifically unsound at best. I will watch the rest of the arc, for certain, so it has succeeded in that much. If the last episode in the arc doesn't disappoint me (as the second episode of the augments arc did), I may even watch the next episode. But I can't honestly say this episode alone has redeemed the series to the point where I want it sticking around for another season. I'd prefer that it go out on a good note and then, as has been suggested, let Trek lay low for a few years before trying to rush something else out there to fill the void.

  • Nov. 22, 2004, 2:38 p.m. CST

    All these years we thought Soval was an asshole sudden

    by cookylamoo

    only to find the Vulcan High Command are even bigger assholes. Well, It wasn't the best Trek ever but it was OK, with Michael Nouri doing a dead on impersonation of Chief Dan George. Is Vulcan just one big honking desert? I sure looks that way. Is this the result of the big war or are they just trying to conjur up memories of Dune? The Bottom Line is, this cast sucks. If we're going to rehash old Trek, it would be more fun to move on to Christopher Pike and Spock.

  • Nov. 22, 2004, 8:32 p.m. CST

    Notice the Questions?

    by Yamato

    Not and Enterprise fan, but I really liked this ep. Notice the questions asked of Archer. Both were in Star Trek IV in Spocks testing. "Nothing Unreal exists" "________ matron of Vulcan Philosophy" Cool

  • Nov. 23, 2004, 12:06 a.m. CST

    Uh?

    by Holly_Wight

    First- What about the name "Holly" makes you call me a "him," you nacent dweeb? Is it that you don't think women should get an opinion on AICN (and if so, Fuck you!) or is it that women are such a rare thing to find in your basement, that you've just forgotten the difference between male and female names? Second, everybody knows that BOOKS ARE NOT CANON so bite me. Third, my primary continuity argument is the inclusion of T'Pau for a cheap ratings grab. Fourth, B&B are still the producers, and either way they are the ones that stunk up the storyline so bad in the first place, so my gripe against B&B (and their loyal fans) still stands. Finally, Newvoyages.com is certainly a lot more legitimate than Enterprise, seeing as the executive producer of the New Voyages is Eugene Roddenberry Jr., son of the creator of Star Trek, and not just some corporate shill. Anybody who is a real fan of the original series agrees (just look at their message boards). It's only the younger, bratty, convention-going dorks that stick by the UPN travesty in some vain hope that it will crank out one or two episodes that don't suck. -I'll capitulate, though, and say that this particular episode didn't suck as bad as the rest of the episodes. It even had it's moments. My big gripe is with Herc saying that this was one of the best episodes of Star Trek ever, including every series. He's WAY wrong! This doesn't even rank in the top 20 when you look at all the good episodes of the original series, and all the good episodes of Next Generation. I'd say this was more along the lines of being one of the best episodes of the last three series of Star Trek shows. It's probably better than most episodes of Voyager (but that's not saying much) and it falls somewhere in the category of being as good as some of the best episodes in the third season of Deep Space Nine. Still, there's no way this holds a candle to some of the classics. Sorry, I just don't like that B&B started "Enterprise" saying it was going to be true to the original series, and then they started re-writing history left and right, changing the look, and introducing story elements that just don't fit with the era. I won't even go into how lame it is that the show makes it seem like the technology long BEFORE Kirk and crew started out was more advanced than the technology during the time frame of the Next Generation. Oh, they refer to things being "experimental" or "untested" but they always work, don't they? I'm pissed that they said they wouldn't be using transporters much (if at all), and yet they use them every episode with no problems. I'm REALLY pissed that they're giving every "discovery" to the "Enterprise" crew on this show; Klingons, time travel, Ferengi, Andorians, tribbles, and everything else. I object to the idea that the Vulcans haven't got their shit together shortly before Spock's birth. This is a weak attempt to make up for the bad writing in the beginning of the series when the Vulcan High Command were written to be such buttheads. You're certainly allowed to disagree with me (and I won't even call you names if you do so), but don't say this was a "great" episode merely because it's better than the swill they've been feeding you for a few years. That's just them setting their standards very low and you cheering when they get somewhat closer to the mark. Hold their feet to the fire! Do you want more episodes like this, or would you rather have episodes that are more like the best of the Next Generation's later seasons? This was a lot of soap opera talk, little action, and a lot of messing with characters that didn't need to be messed with in the first place. Co-opting T'Pau is not my idea of good writing; It's a cheap ploy to get casual fans to accept the show because of its weak, so-called attempts at "continuity."

  • Nov. 23, 2004, 10:12 a.m. CST

    How in the hell...

    by Childe Roland

    ...could Shatner appear on Enterprise as Kirk without them using some stupid time travel gimmick? Have you seen Shatner lately? Doesn't really even resemble the middle aged former captain he played at the end of Generations anymore, much less the cocky young go-getter he'd have to be in a pre-original series cameo. He looks more like my 65-year-old father, which would make him about the perfect age to play Kirk's grandfather on Enterprise. If they did that, I might get a kick out of it. But if they try to pass Shatner off, as is, as J.T. Kirk in any incarnation, I'll know this one decent episode we just saw was a complete fluke and that the creative team behind this show is completely inept.

  • Nov. 23, 2004, 11:15 a.m. CST

    I think mostly they've stayed in period.

    by cookylamoo

    Yeah, I know they brought in the Borg, which was just wrong, and you say there were Ferengi, which I don't remember but I'll take your word for it. But mostly they've been fleshing out stuff that was always alluded to but not really explored; The Andorians for example. We saw these goofy looking guys but we never knew very much about them, now we do. And now we've actually seen the Orion Syndicate in action and we're spending some time on Vulcan. Who knows, maybe somday we'll learn the secret of those Klingon/human hybrids. There's still lots of Trek lore from this era to fill in. The crystal creatures from the "web" story. There was supposed to be a big war with them. And just because we never see a Romulan doesn't mean we can't encounter their ships. Plus there's still the story of how the Federation came to be.

  • Nov. 23, 2004, 12:46 p.m. CST

    Holly_Wight...

    by I Dunno

    Ok where to start. You're right, the books are not canon. I do, however have to question your assertion that using the T'Pau character was to bring in ratings. Who the hell even knows what a T'Pau is, outside hardcore Trek geeks who will watch anything they're given anyway? As for the technology, there's no technology in Enterprise that is more advanced than that seen in the original series. Yeah, everything looks better than it did in the original series but everything looked like crap in the original series. Do you really expect them to use "tapes" and big bright buttons and computer systems that are already more primative than what we have now? The real canon is how the technology looked from the first movie foreward. The refitted Enterprise excuse is bullshit. They changed the look of Enterprise and its technology, just like how the Klingons and Romulans changed. There really aren't any continuity problems that I've seen. I'm willing to learn but no one's convinced me otherwise.

  • Nov. 23, 2004, 8:39 p.m. CST

    Holly your right... and some fixes...

    by Kelvington

    Holly I have admit I agree with a lot of what you say, in particular the B&B part. I

  • Nov. 25, 2004, 3:29 a.m. CST

    "One of the best episodes of Star Trek?" BWAHAHAHAHA!

    by MyNameDoesn'tFit

    You're losing, man.