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Hi, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab...

I don’t think it’s possible to overestimate the sheer nerve of Trey Parker and Matt Stone. And I don’t think it’s possible to overstate just how lucky we are to witness their particular brand of insanity.

TEAM AMERICA: WORLD POLICE may be one of the most deranged studio pictures I’ve ever seen. The fact that they got Scott Rudin, a producer known for such esoteric fare as THE HOURS and WONDER BOYS, to sign off on a puppet movie that not only roasts every lame Hollywood action movie cliché imaginable, but which also risks pissing off the movie stars that someone like Rudin depends on, is a minor miracle. The fact that they are still working on a film that is supposed to be in theaters on October 15th is even more amazing to me, but somehow, if anyone can pull it off, I have faith that these guys can.

This morning, I saw the not-quite-finished film. I think I may be the first person outside of Paramount to do so, and as I understand it, the entire creative team is still hard at work polishing the film right now. There’s still a temp track in place for most of the film, except for the songs, and there’s a part of me that would almost urge the filmmakers to just buy the temp tracks and use them in the final film. Watching the opening titles to the TERMINATOR 2 theme was very funny, and there’s something gloriously pompous about even the best action movie score when it’s placed over this footage. Harrison Gregson-Williams (CHICKEN RUN) is finishing his score today, and it’s evidently going to stick very close to the bombastic sounds of what they have holding the space right now. Although this isn’t a full-blown musical like SOUTH PARK: THE MOVIE, there are a number of songs here, and most of them are used to devastatingly funny effect.

The first thing that any audience is going to have to deal with in watching the film is that this really is an all-marionette movie. There’s not going to be a moment where someone steps out, says, “Just kidding,” and then starts the real film. This is it.

I wonder if, on this side of the experience, Parker and Stone are still glad about their decision to do the film this way. They should definitely be proud of the final result. The puppets are surprisingly subtle in terms of performance, particularly regarding their facial mannerisms. There are plenty of shots where it looks like the puppeteers were told to go broad with the movements and body language, and it walks a fine line between skilled and silly at all times.

I think there’s an almost accidental subtext to the fact that everyone in the movie is a puppet that works for the film. Most modern Hollywood action films are little more than puppet shows, anyway. Anyone who has ever written a big-budget blockbuster type action film will most likely sit in the theater and cry as this film painfully roasts each and every lousy convention of the genre. It’s painfully accurate, and it would be really hard to take these movies seriously again after watching this, if you ever took them seriously in the first place. It’s eerie how right they get the shape of the film, especially in the first half as they’re setting everything up. The film plays fairly serious at first. There’s the opening scene in Paris that many of you have seen now, with all the cheesy one-liners like “Hey, terrorist... terrorize this.” In their efforts to stop a group of terrorists who have blinking briefcase weapons of some sort, Team America completely annihilates the Eiffel Tower and the Louvre, and they seem so blissfully unaware of what they’ve done that you have to laugh. Standing there in the smoking ruins of Paris, team member Carson proposes marriage to team member Lisa, only to be cut down by a not-quite-dead terrorist who pops out of a fountain. Carson dies in Lisa’s arms (“I’m... so cold...”), leading her to bellow into a crane shot that pulls back from her. Like I said... this thing starts off pretty much exactly like a real Hollywood action film.

But rest assured... there’s plenty of the absurdist wit of Parker and Stone on display, and it starts to creep in almost immediately as we’re introduced to Gary Johnston, a Broadway actor who is starring in LEASE: THE MUSICAL. We catch up with him mid-performance as he sings the big closing number of the show, a cheerful little toe-tapper called “Everyone Has AIDS”:

”The gays and the straights/The whites and the spades/Everyone... has AIDS!”

Backstage, he’s approached by Team America’s leader and mentor, Spottswoode, about joining the team. To help convince Gary, he takes him to the secret headquarters of the group, deep inside the heads of Mount Rushmore. Gary’s introduced to Joe (“the all-star quarterback from the University of Nebraska, a natural born leader”), Sarah (“the top empathy from Berkeley’s school for the clairvoyant”), Chris (“the top martial arts expert Detroit has to offer”), and the aforementioned Lisa (“a top Princeton psychology major who specializes in how terrorists think”). He is also shown the super-computer that provides Team America with all its intelligence, aptly named, um, I.N.T.E.L.L.I.G.E.N.C.E. Some of the dialogue in the film is directly quoted from other scripts, and if you pay attention, you’ll hear howlers from TOP GUN, ARMAGEDDON, and more.

As the film progresses, though, more and more silly starts to sneak in around the edges. Gary thinks over his job offer to the tune of a Toby Keith-like country song called “Freedom Isn’t Free” that features stills of Gary in front of all sorts of national monuments, and the fact that it’s played as dead straight as it is only made me laugh harder. Something about listening to Trey Parker sing in that overly sincere voice of his puts me away every time. Then when the film cuts to the introduction of Kim Jong Il, it starts to get overt in how loony things are. He’s introduced like a Bond supervillain, and he’s written like a Korean Cartman. The little details start to add up, and there’s almost always something going on that made me giggle. The ways Spottwoode’s office chair always seems to be rolling, no matter what’s going on. Gary’s “skin graft” disguise. The STAR WARS cantina riff. The introduction of the theme song, “America! Fuck, Yeah!” The entire Cairo scene is hilarious, as is the introduction of the Film Actors Guild, or FAG for short. There’s certainly a chance that people like Tim Robbins, Sean Penn, and Alec Baldwin might be offended by their inclusion here, but I think it would be a shame. I know what it’s like to be savagely lampooned, and there’s always an initial sting, but this film isn’t worth anyone getting permanently pissed off. There’s such a genuine bad-little-boy glee to the way they roast everyone that I would hope people laugh it off as the joke it so obviously is.

Which isn’t to say that the satire is toothless. It’s not. But it is even-handed. Take the Hans Blix scene, for example. They make fun of the way the UN handles situations involving weapons inspections, with Blix warning Kim Jong Il that he must be allowed to search the entire palace, “Or else.”

”Or else what?”

”Or else... we’ll be very angry with you. And we will write you a letter to tell you just how angry we are.” Yet when Team America steps in to handle a situation, they’re hardly painted as the solution to things. They just randomly blow up anything in their way and kill anyone they see. They’re not exactly portrayed as a moral absolute. I also love how every subtitle that sets the scene in a foreign country includes how many miles it is away from America, as if this is the center of the world. It’s a great subtle jab at ethnocentrism. It’ll be interesting to see who does take political offense at the film, because anyone could probably twist the movie to represent their beliefs, and they could probably just as easily misunderstand things enough to feel like they had been attacked. In short, if you have a sense of humor, chances are you’ll make it through unscathed, and if you don’t, prepare to feel like you’ve been beaten up, no matter what you believe.

The puppet sex scene which we’ve heard much mention of already is indeed over the top, but I think the ratings board proved that they are certifiably insane by giving the film an NC-17 originally. The Gary puppet is hung like a Ken doll. These are the most sexless depictions of sex I can imagine. Yes, they run through a ton of positions, and yes, in the original cut there was scat and golden showers and a pearl necklace, but even so, this is about as far from being an explicit depiction of human sexuality as I can imagine. Cutting the scene back to its current form may have won the guys their R rating, but it’s not like the ratings board won some major victory. This movie is still just as rude and hilariously vulgar as it was intended to be, and getting hung up on a few specific shots just points up how silly it is to debate that fine line between the R and the NC-17 anyway. Consider this one another victory for the guys, and another example of how completely ridiculous the ratings system is.

The second half of the film is where the guys obviously stopped even trying to make a serious action film, and it turns into what is very identifiably a Parker/Stone picture. The jokes come faster and faster as the film progresses. I love it when Michael Moore jumps on the “Fuck Team America” bandwagon after they’ve been disgraced and discredited. I love the sad version of “America! Fuck, Yeah!” that plays. I love how the team members are all focused on all the soap opera story elements during one of the biggest action scenes in the film. I think Kim Jong Il’s “I’m Ronery” is going to bring the house down when people see it. And when Gary has a chance encounter with a drunk guy in a bar who lays out his theory that there are only three types of people in this world – dicks, pussies, and assholes – you just know that’s going to play an important part in the movie later. It’s the film’s “big idea,” and even though they take it to the absurd extreme, it’s not a bad one. After a while, you stop thinking about the puppets and just start watching them as characters, but from time to time, something happens and you can’t help but think, “Wow, someone’s got to be really proud of the fact that they got all that vomit into that puppet.”

I think my favorite musical interlude in the whole film is either the love song with the opening line, “I miss you more/Than Michael Bay missed the mark/When he made PEARL HARBOR.” Yes, they wrote an entire song using the metaphor of how big a turd PEARL HARBOR was to describe how much one character loves another. There's also a great montage that’s cut to another one of those overly-sincere Trey Parker vocals about how you use a montage to show the passage of time. Both songs are hilarious, and mark some of the second-half highlights. There’s also a trust test between Spottswoode and Gary that had me crying, and everything that takes place during the big finale at Kim Jong Il’s palace is solid gold. Wait till you see how they set up the sequel that will never happen. It may be the strangest joke in any movie this year.

Overall, TEAM AMERICA’s got a few duds during its running time, but what comedy doesn’t? There are so many jokes here that it’s sort of a law-of-averages thing, and these guys hit at a higher percentage than most. The jokes that do work connect on any number of levels, and I am a sucker for any comedy that dares me to be smart. I think fans of SOUTH PARK are going to be madly in love with this, but I also think there’s a wider audience possible for it. I don't know about Harry, but I'm being innundated with political documentaries right now, and with the chance to see them, and discussions of them... and personally, I am at the point where I just couldn't give less of a fuck. I don't care. I struggle to keep my personal political views off this site and stick to movies, and ultimately, this film is more of an attack on Hollywood action film conventions than it is any sort of specific political screed. I think people who believe this is going to influence the election in any way are going to be sorely disappointed, but I was relieved. This film's got a shelf life, thank god.

For one thing, it’s a pretty striking film visually. Bill Pope’s widescreen cinematography is lush and colorful, even in the unfinished version I saw. I can’t wait to see how it looks when it’s properly finished... a week from now. Production designer Jim Dultz did an amazing job of putting together a convincing world that doesn't remotely look real. He suggests famous locations with some amazing sets, and the level of detail he's added to every scene really will demand at least one more viewing to appreciate. Trey’s got a very sure hand as a director this time out, and there’s a real confidence to the parody. If he ever completely lost his sense of humor, he could easily make a slick Hollywood action film, and it’d probably be better than the output of the Simon Wests of this world. You’ve got to give special credit to the Chiodo Brothers, who created such a diverse and amazing cast for the film, and who stepped up to the technical challenges as if this is something they do every single day. As I understand it, TEAM AMERICA: WORLD POLICE qualifies as an animated film under the Academy rules, so that means we may see this film face-off with THE INCREDIBLES and SHREK 2 at the Oscars this year. It’s certainly worthy of a nomination, and it will no doubt stand as some sort of technical milestone for puppeteering for quite a while. Especially once other filmmakers read the interviews where Trey Parker says things like, “I mean, you could threaten to kill my family and I would not make another puppet movie. If my mother would die if I would not make another puppet movie, she’d be dead. I’m totally serious.” I can imagine how he must be feeling after being buried in this all summer, but it pays off. There’s a hand-crafted quality to the film that no CGI spectacle can match, and it’s endearing. You look at this movie, and it’s obvious. These are sets. They built these rockets and planes and all the backgrounds, and when a puppet gets blown up or gets its head torn off, it’s funnier because of how it’s filled with red meat. This was an experiment, certainly, and I’d mark it as a success for Parker and Stone. Like I said in my I HEART HUCKABEES review, Scott Rudin is the hero of the fall of 2004. When you see this or THE LIFE AQUATIC or HUCKABEES, you can’t help but admire how he’s supported all of these individual artists in fairly unorthodox circumstances. He’s allowed Parker and Stone to make a movie that I can’t imagine any studio making, and whatever the final box-office result, this is a triumph of a personal vision making it through the studio system intact.

We’re getting into the fall screening season now, so I’ll be back this week with all sorts of reviews, hopefully, as well as my new DVD column. Until then...

"Moriarty" out.

Readers Talkback
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  • Oct. 3, 2004, 10:09 p.m. CST

    This will be hilarious.

    by Gilkuliehe

    And I won't say first.

  • Oct. 3, 2004, 10:17 p.m. CST

    I second that!

    by Jon E Cin

    This movie will be great..

  • Oct. 3, 2004, 10:28 p.m. CST

    Third and...

    by Gilkuliehe

    Come one SUCKS GUY, wake up and come to amuse us with your wit. And hell yeah, there aren't enough Michael Bay/Pearl Harbor jokes outthere.

  • Oct. 3, 2004, 10:30 p.m. CST


    by Gilkuliehe

    There's no order in this talkback, why do I keep coming back? Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks Mori for that nice review. I always enjoy the pictures too. This site needs more pictures. And it has one sucks guy too many. And thus, I have said the word "thus".

  • Oct. 3, 2004, 10:35 p.m. CST

    Matt and Trey are genuises...I'll be there on the 15th..

    by Rupee88

    There are SO many CLASSIC episodes of South Park. This film may or may not be up there at that level, but I bet it will be fun and have some good laughs in it. Sweet!

  • Oct. 3, 2004, 10:36 p.m. CST

    Odd omission

    by Lazarus Long

    I find it striking that Moriarty completely neglected to mention the abrupt exit of the amazing Mark Shaiman from this project. Perhaps it was a condition of this screening that he not divulge any information about that move, but he could at least have offered some opinion about what is certainly a strange turn in this production. Still looking forward to seeing this, even if Parker got rid of Shaiman for some petty bullshit reason.

  • Oct. 3, 2004, 10:46 p.m. CST

    "Blame Canada" was nominated


    So it's not too far fetched that this just might snag a nod for best animated film. That would be so cool.

  • Oct. 3, 2004, 10:47 p.m. CST

    what comedy doesn't have duds? Napoleon Dynamite, that's what

    by memyself

    Sorry, but this is going to suck. When you resort to going after Michael Moore for your jokes, it's a good sign that you're out of them. Vote for Pedro!

  • Oct. 3, 2004, 10:48 p.m. CST

    Regarding Marc Shaiman

    by drew mcweeny

    Lazarus... I don't really know anything about the Shaiman situation. I may be interviewing Matt and Trey in the next two weeks (although the amount of work they have to do still might keep that from happening), but if I do, I'll ask them about it then.

  • Oct. 3, 2004, 11:08 p.m. CST

    Glad to see you got the apostrophe problem straightened out, Mor

    by spacehog

    "HUCKABEES." Well done.

  • Oct. 3, 2004, 11:14 p.m. CST

    This MUST be seen at a late night showing

    by Terry_1978

    Just has to be done, on some Friday or Saturday night when the theatre is full of fanboys and idiot kids that like to think they're MST3K. The curiosity is eating me alive....not really eating me, but you get the jist.

  • Oct. 3, 2004, 11:21 p.m. CST

    NAPOLEON DYNAMITE: The most overrated film of 2004!

    by TedSallis

    It wasnt THATfunny!!!!!!!! Gee wiz. People standing in front of fake wood paneling, deadpan, isn t the stuff of hystertical laughter!! The studios are starting a 'buzz' on films that hardly deserve it, and everyone falls for it!!....Anyways, back to topic. Team America looks like we're FINALLY getting a funny movie this year!

  • Oct. 3, 2004, 11:22 p.m. CST


    by ToxicEnema

    Meh. Three words. Straight to Video.

  • Oct. 4, 2004, midnight CST

    Meet The Feebles

    by Essemtee

    Another bizarre, all-puppet spoof comedy with musical numbers, gore/violence and sex. Of course, you guys knew that, but someone had to mention it!

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 12:36 a.m. CST

    Mori worked in the "dead mom" quote, sweat deal!

    by Tall_Boy

    I love that qoute. Anyway, yah, can't wait to see this. Though I am disappointed there isn't any puppet peral necklace.

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 12:57 a.m. CST

    Oh and also the fact that the MPAA made them cut out the "graphi

    by Tall_Boy

    GODDAMNIT, now I really wanted to see Puppet Pearl Necklace. Just the concept of it makes me giggle dementedly. FUCK YOU, MPAA!!!

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 1:21 a.m. CST

    I was really looking forward to the graphic puppet sex

    by ChickenGeorgeVII

    Finally, we would get to see some REAL WOOD!!!!!....And thus, it was bound to be said! - - - George, The 7th Chicken!!!!

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 2:55 a.m. CST

    This could well be that next great (and so rare) constant cinema

    by TheGinger Twit

    Not seen by my eyes since 'southpark' 'There's something about Mary' or "The naked gun"

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 3:18 a.m. CST

    by Toby O Notoby

    Let's see Ebert put *that* into a review! Funny stuff.

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 3:27 a.m. CST

    Is this true, Marc Shaiman left the film?

    by TheGinger Twit

    He must have been offended by something. Well, the next step would probably David Arnold or David Newman. Although david arnold hasn't done a film in a LONG time. Is the dude even still composing?

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 3:30 a.m. CST

    Makes you think?

    by Lev_Harris

    "I am a sucker for any comedy that dares me to be smart." Hahahhaha... how exactly does it dare you to be smart?

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 3:32 a.m. CST

    I don't believe it, it's true! Shaimans score has been rejected.

    by TheGinger Twit

    Guess it just didn't have it.

  • I sent an e-mail to Quint & Moriarty when I saw it online but I guess they didn't decide to run it. Anyway its a interesting development and I'd really like to know what the heck happened. And they have to have the score done in, what, 4 days max now?

  • read all the somewhat gory details here: Gregson-Williams replaces Shaiman on 'Team America': Another rejection of an original score for a major, big budget Hollywood picture has taken place: Marc Shaiman is no longer scoring Team America: World Police. Burt Berman, President of music at Paramount Pictures, has confirmed to Music from the Movies that Harry Gregson-Williams is the new composer onboard the project. Gregson-Williams will have to compose the score for the film in rapid speed. Team America: World Police is supposed to premiere in only two weeks, on 15 October. Gregson-Williams has written scores for numerous other animated hit films, including the two Shrek films and Chicken Run. Marc Shaiman - whose previous collaboration with the filmmakers, Trey Parker and Matt Stone, resulted in a hilarious score for South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut - had reportedly written one of his most dramatic scores ever and recorded the orchestral music for Team America just a few weeks ago. He had also written a number of songs for the film - whether or not these will remain in the final cut of the film remains to be seen.

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 4:30 a.m. CST

    Saw the original uncut sex scene...

    by Tres Skeek was insanely funny. But somehow, the way they cut the existing sex scene with out the Cleveland Steamer and the Golden Shower (I went to a work-in-progress screening this past week)made it even more funny. This movie rocks SO hard - can't wait to see how it's received on the 15th.

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 4:32 a.m. CST


    by Scunner

    Mmmm, dictionary. Looking forward to the film though.

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 5:16 a.m. CST

    A dream, to some...

    by joe brady

    ... A nightmare to others! South Park was never funny.

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 5:20 a.m. CST

    for a puppet movie still in post production..

    by AshesOfDonnie

    ..they have put up a shitload of billboards all over the place. and it's true, Napolean Dynomite was overrated. I only laughed, like twice in that movie. But from what it looks, Matt & Trey have delivered us a laugh fest. can't wait for the 15th.

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 5:25 a.m. CST

    The Songs...

    by drew mcweeny

    ... will remain in the film, TallBoy. They were all intact at the screening this morning, and when I spoke with Stone later in the day, he said that although a few of them were demos in the print I saw, they will be the same, just more polished, in the final film. It's just the score that's changing.

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 9:18 a.m. CST

    Thanks for the SPOILER warning

    by Jeditemple

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 9:57 a.m. CST

    Perfectly serviceable word Scunner...

    by Pontsing Barset

    ... you seriously had to look it up? Is english a second language for you? Here, let me help: Pronunciation ehth no sehn trih zEm Definition 1. the strong tendency to view other races or cultural groups in terms of the standards of one's own race or group. Definition 2. the belief that one's own ethnic group or culture is superior. Related Words chauvinism , prejudice Derived Forms ethnocentric, adj. ; ethnocentrically, adv. ; ethnocentricity, n.

  • Classic!!!! Sooooo classic! And to quote Homer Simpson, "It's funny, because it's true"

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 10:04 a.m. CST

    Ok, ok...

    by Huneybee

    It's not my usual thing, but thanks to your enthusiastic review, I'll give this one a shot. I've always been an action movie slut, particularly the cheesy 80's films, so should get a kick out of seeing them satirized. Just a warning, though...if I don't like it, I'm going to blow up large buildings and anyone with a briefcase in my disappointment. And it will be ALL YOUR FAULT!

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 10:38 a.m. CST

    I know i'm looking forward to this movie, BUT

    by 007-11

    I'm afraid that it won't do well at all. "Shark Tale" is the number one movie with 49 million. "Sky Captain" hasn't even made that much yet. Hopefully the fact that Matt and Trey made this will carry it to success, but I just don't know.

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 10:53 a.m. CST

    RE: Moriarty being the "COOL" of AIN'T IT COOL

    by TheImperialGuy

    I can't agree with ShadowInc more. A VERY good observation. Moriarty consistently reports when he has Exclusive news to share with us and gets it out ASAP. Harry's still doing a great job, but it seems there are too many things (which he greatly deserves) going on in his life that's bogging him down from running the site as effectively as he once did. I always enjoy Mori's stuff and agree with the VERY few personal rants he goes off on. I DO think it would be wise to get someone else's hand in Coax besides Herc, who CONSISTENTLY only reports on the SAME shows that HE enjoys. Two years after Buffy's cancellation and we're STILL hearing what the "masterminds" behind that show are doing like it really matters. Well, lemme get off MY rant here and just say, DAMN I can't wait for TEAM AMERICA, sounds great. And Mori, good luck to you and hopefully we'll see YOU'RE deserving name on the big screen too someday soon. Although, hopefully not anything with MORTAL KOMBAT 3 in the title... don't think we really NEED another one of THOSE to be honest...

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 11:07 a.m. CST

    WONDER BOYS is Esoteric?

    by blondeman

    Does he even know what the word means? My guess is that he stumbled upon a West Wing Re-run, heard the word, and decided to throw it into one of this "reviews".

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 11:12 a.m. CST

    Yes, "Wonder Boys" is esoteric

    by Krinkle

    Just because you don't think it's "cool", that doesn't mean it ain't esoteric. It is a little-seen movie that appeals more to rarified tastes. Hence, esoteric.

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 12:15 p.m. CST

    R.C.'s exclusive: This just in, the 80's are back. To all who

    by R.C. the "Wise"

    First Transformers, now He-Man. All that's left is for Warner Bros. to sign Viggo for a live-action G.I. Joe, and the 80's heirarchy of cartoons/merchandising will be complete. :^D

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 3:58 p.m. CST


    by bushsux

    You know, if you're going to call North Korea part of the Axis of Evil, be ready to back your shit up. 3,000 soldiers from the 2nd ID were relocated from South Korea to Iraq this year. Bush wants to eventually withdraw anothr 12,500 troops from South Korea. Bush is supposed to be coming up with an exit strategy from Iraq, not South Korea. Kim Jong Il actually does have weapons of mass destruction, not to mention the world's third largest army. This is a poor command decision on Bush's part.

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 4:01 p.m. CST

    Silly Elephants

    by bushsux

    I'm sorry, the Bush didn't pull 3,000 troops from South Korea this year. He pulled 3,600! Good job!

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 4:04 p.m. CST

    From the experts

    by bushsux

    In case any of you conservatives try to play amateur military tactician, "Retired Army Lt. Gen. William Odom, a former head of the National Security Agency, thinks the troop withdrawal "could set in motion the deterioration of the U.S. military position on the Korean peninsula, which could lead to destabilization of the entire region." - Pittsburgh Post Gazette June 8,2004.

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 4:29 p.m. CST

    What does Kerry want to do with North Korea?

    by Dagan

    Oh yes - he agreed with taking our soldiers off the Korean Peninsula, yet when Bush announced those plans all of a sudden he was against it. Do you want multi-lateral talks or bi-lateral talks, John Kerry? "Both" is his incredible answer. Bush: "But China is our main leverage over North Korea and bi-lateral talks would make multilateral talks break down, causing us to lose China." Kerry: "Wrong. WE CAN DO BOTH!" China(the day after the debates, when Kerry said this): "No, John Kerry. Multilateral talks only - we will not participate in Multilateral talks if you talk to them alone and directly." So China has completely rebuked Kerry's North Korea "policy", proving Bush was correct.----------- ------------------ ------- ---------------- -------------- And then there's what got us into this situation to begin with - Clinton's North Korean policy, or the worst foreign policy blunder of the last thirty years. Their bright idea? "North Korea, if you PWAAAMISSE to stop building a nuclear weapon, we'll give you a nuclear reactor and fuel - and we'll also give you food and oil aid." North Korea said "Okay, you stupid idiots", and took the deal, took all of that stuff, took the assurances that we would sit by and do nothing because we had signed "a deal", and then went right on developing their nuclear weapons anyway. When Bush came into office North Korea announced that they had broken the deal and continued their nuclear program anyway, and the nukes came online shortly thereafter - leaving us in a very tough position, because now they HAVE these weapons. Thank you, Democrats - this episode proves why Democrats simply cannot be trusted with foreign policy - they think the signing of paper is going to compel dictators to "do the right thing" - but we simply got taken advantage of. Just a couple of weeks ago, Albright defended the deal, saying "no, the deal was good - they just cheated!" Well duh, Democrats - Republicans were warning of that when you signed the stupid deal. That's what dictators do. And John Kerry has given an almost IDENTICAL proposal to Iran to "stop them" from building nukes - his plan? Make them promise to stop and give them nuclear fuel if they will. Wow. Another Democrat appeasement plan that would result in the assurance that the target country will develop a bomb and we will just sit by and watch, having "signed an agreement". Be glad that Kerry is still very likely to lose this election. Our lives, in many ways, depend on it. Democrats simply cannot be trusted with National Security - Kerry was wrong when he opposed Reagan and supported the "nuclear freeze" in the eighties - his predictions of what would happen turned out to be completely off the mark - we won the cold war, we did not start World War III - had John Kerry had his dovish way then, we would not have instituted the policies that led to that victory. He proposed cutting the intelligence budget by 6 billion dollars AFTER the first World Trade Center attack - a move that 75 centers, even his friend Ted Kennedy, voted against. He wrote a book in 1997 that mentioned the biggest national security risks of the day, according to Kerry - but he didn't even mention terrorism - his biggest "risk"? Chinese Triads! He says nuclear proliferation is the biggest danger to confront us in the future, yet he is AGAINST the missle defense system we are about to employ. Kerry simply cannot be trusted on National Security.

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 4:49 p.m. CST

    Moriarity: the AIN"T of ain't it cool.

    by Kid Zero

    *yawn* Might break even.

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 5:08 p.m. CST

    didn't they have a song that makes fun of montages in the "asspe

    by JoeStokowski

    am i right?

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 5:21 p.m. CST

    yah that was the "sports training montage"

    by Tall_Boy

    and the lyrics go as follows (boots up dvix file of aspen episode): - "The day is approcahing so give it your best. You've got to reach your PRIME. Just when you need to put yourself to the test, and show us the passage of TIME. We're gonna need a MONTAGE! (Montage!) A sports training montage! Show alot of things happen' at once remind everyone of whats goin on! And with every shot show a little improvement, to show it all would take too long! That's called a montage! Even ROCKY had a montage! In any sport if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage! Show a little montage. Always fade out at the end of a MONTAGE! IF you fade out it feels like more time has passed in a montage" That's actually one of my favourite South Park songs so I don't mind them doing the same bit again because people who didn't see that Aspen episode -- its a GREAT freakin joke. And it could get to a wider audience. so, why the hell not, eh?

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 5:41 p.m. CST


    by FNORDcinco1

    Thats all I got...

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 6:59 p.m. CST

    Uh, Dagan?

    by SlightlyCharred

    Shut the fuck up. What the hell, man?

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 7:19 p.m. CST

    Uh, SlightlyCharred...

    by Dagan

    You might want to read before you post - I was directly responding to "buhsux's" post up above - so that's "what the fuck", as you say. I didn't post about Kerry's foreign policy out of the blue, it was a response to another poster, who was the first one to start talking politics. So either rip on both of us for discussing politics or leave us both alone if you think it's okay - singling just one of us out is hardly fair.

  • Oct. 4, 2004, 10:39 p.m. CST

    Doll sex? Already been done in "Meet the Feebles" and "Bride Of

    by Elgyn6655321

    The premise for this movie sounds funny, but the commercials certainly don`t make it look very funny.

  • Oct. 5, 2004, 4:43 a.m. CST


    by Tres Skeek

    Yes, the montage song is the same one heard previosuly in the "ASSPEN" episode, but, you know, with different visuals. Still fucking funny in my opinion.

  • Oct. 5, 2004, 4:48 a.m. CST

    Screw the film itself, the main and important point is that the

    by SalvatoreGravano

    And that means that they may get to work on that Killer Klowns sequel they've dreamed of for ten years.

  • Oct. 5, 2004, 4:59 a.m. CST

    I wonder if Craig Schwartz inside John Malkovich would angrily r

    by DarthCorleone

  • Oct. 5, 2004, 5:07 a.m. CST

    i hate how the bigwigs on this site...

    by satansteve

    brag about how theyve seen movies before us. "MORIARTYS SEEN TEAM AMERICA AND U SUCK BECAUSE U HAVENT HAHAHAHAHA!"

  • Oct. 5, 2004, 6:30 a.m. CST

    Er... Thunderbirds?

    by Doghouse Reilly

    How odd that nobody -- not Moriarty, not the already weighty roster of talkbackers, absolutely nobody -- seems to have noticed that Team America is as much an affectionate piss-take of Gerry Anderson's classic puppet show Thunderbirds as anything else? C'mon -- you had Thunderbirds in the US too, right? OK, it was never quite the storming hit across the Atlantic that it became in the UK, but surely SOMEone remembers? Matt and Trey do. Even from the trailer it's all there -- the portentous dialogue, the silver-haired patriarch (even the voice is near-identical; this character IS Jeff Tracy), the team of youthful heroes, the blonde love interest, the cool hardware... entire buildings (and national monuments) sliding away to reveal futuristic complexes and/or arsenals of terrifying WMD... but most of all the puppets. Great big heads, swivel-eyes, ludicrous bouncy walks and strings. Lots of lovely, shamelessly visible strings. You've got to love it. Watching both trailers (so far) and gleefully laughing my lunch up the wall I couldn't help but think, yes -- THIS is how they should have done it... 'it' being the late, laughable and unlamented floater that Thunderbirds the Movie became. Anyone remember THAT? The film from which Anderson was arrogantly excluded by Working Title, which unsurprisingly stank up the box office from sea to shining sea (despite fine direction from the Star Trek guy). An advance copy of the script was eviscerated for all to see on AICN long before TB the movie went into production, yet every single fault, oversight and blundering, blithering misconception apparently made it to the final cut. Ptui! But enough of that creative death zone. What Gerry Anderson will make of Team America is anyone's guess, but it couldn't exist without him -- and already looks to be a rather more fitting tribute to the enduring glory that is Thunderbirds. Can't wait.

  • Oct. 5, 2004, 7:40 a.m. CST


    by geonosis

    I dont know if anyone else has bumped into this online yet, but someone sent me a link recently to a website called where they have trailers for a film called "GI JOE: THE EPIC SAGA". I don't know what to make of it at this point, but it looks alot like what Trey and Matt have done with "TEAM AMERICA". The only difference I suppose is that these guys are using action figures. There is even sometype of terrorist theme involved where planes are flying into towers and even a cumshot from one of the joes!! Who knows what these guys are up to, but being an avid action figure collector, they sure caught my interest. This probably sounds like a plant, but whatever. Think what you want, it was on topic and thought I'd share.

  • Oct. 5, 2004, 8:12 a.m. CST


    by speed

    one of the reasons nobody has mentioned it is because it's already been mentioned. i also think that it just wasn't that popular in the states compared to england and australia. BUT if you read the last interview with Stone and Parker then you would have seen them going on about the thunderbirds. and im guessing a lot of posters here are university students.

  • Oct. 5, 2004, 8:29 a.m. CST

    i just checked out that GI Joe stuff and...

    by speed

    it was better than a red hot rod from a rear-end rancher, but that's about all. sorry. Now if you want to see action figures put to work in an funny little production i recommend:

  • Oct. 5, 2004, 8:42 a.m. CST


    by blendo75

    You're my conjoined-twin-dead-thing-hangin-off-your-head-woman...

  • Oct. 5, 2004, 9:05 a.m. CST

    This movie is so going to bomb...

    by BurnHollywood

    I'd be shocked if it even breaks even after DVD...yeah, that's what your average adult moviegoer wants to see - a fuckin' puppet show thing take-off on some BRITISH TV show that was made before he or she was even born...worse, it seems to think there's a middle-ground for raunchy comedy between the left and right (oh yeah, right-wingers LOVE a good "puppet sex" joke...)...

  • Oct. 5, 2004, 10:57 a.m. CST

    This sounds funny as hell

    by I Dunno

    And God bless Matt and Trey for making a movie they know won't make a dime, most people will hate and will piss off a lot of powerful Hollywood goons.

  • Oct. 5, 2004, 11:42 a.m. CST

    There are only 4 Republicans I respect...

    by Lost Skeleton

    Arnold, Bruce Willis, John McCaine and Colin Powell...nuff said. Don't follow a moron, vote Kerry 2004

  • Oct. 5, 2004, 11:50 a.m. CST

    oh well

    by ScaryJim

    I'm looking forward to this puppets are funny whether it's the intention or not and with mattand trey at the the bitch.. I'm amazed the post got so far without the fucking useless political insighting of bush sux . FFS man! thats great that you care but we are talking about a comedy film with puppets and i'm probably not alone in thinking we all came here on this specific talkback to have a laugh ... i mean everyones having a nice chat and suddenly some cnut will pop up and say 'vote kerry' or 'vote bush' Now who's the fucking puppet?

  • Oct. 5, 2004, 4:33 p.m. CST

    Puppet sex

    by m2298

  • Oct. 5, 2004, 5:53 p.m. CST

    I must be above average...

    by Childe Roland

    ...if the average adult movie goer will have no interest in this, because I'm all kinds of interested. My younger brother and I used to turn down the sound on old episodes of the Thunderbirds and make them say all kinds of ridiculous shit. This movie appears to go that route one better by then showing the puppets actually doing ridiculous shit (or, at least, more ridiculous than we saw in the average episode of Thunderbirds). Everything about this movie sounds funny. Mayhap some "grown ups" need to remove the sticks from their butts and lighten up a bit... especially as the world teeters on the brink of collapse pending the outcome of a popularity contest between two well-funded, high-profile goofballs in the U.S. If you don't laugh, you might just cry.

  • Oct. 5, 2004, 11:49 p.m. CST

    Dan Quayle and George W. Bush. Separated at birth?

    by bushsux

    If all Kerry does is not remove 16,000 US troops from South Korea, that alone will be better than what Bush is doing right now and plans on doing in the future. All North Korea has going for it is its military, you think they're tempted to use it? Removing 16,000 US troops from South Korea, a tour most soldiers actually enjoy, would tempt Kim Jong Il even more.

  • Oct. 6, 2004, 3:37 p.m. CST

    good call, Doghouse!

    by Hud

    Thunderbirds was the shit! I think maybe a lot of posters here are a little young to remember the show's first attempt at crossing the ocean. But I remember it well (Supermarionation; is there any other kind?) and thought it an endearingly creepy, compelling art form. Plus, Mori, everybody's political, artists more than most, even if their politics be especially naive and latent. If your story has a "good" guy and a "bad" guy, then your values are on display. And where there are values, there are politics, inasmuch as people with "values" can never keep them to themselves, but seem driven to exhort others. That exhortation was the definition of political life for the ancients and is at least still the foundation for our politics today. Maybe you mean you don't want to talk partisanship? Fair enough, but movies are such crud that it's embarrassing to say more than a few words about them. "Sucks horse cock" pretty much covers most situations.

  • Oct. 6, 2004, 3:43 p.m. CST


    by Super Person

    That's some serious spin, man... now it's GOOD that Bush pulled all those troops out of South Korea, because that gets them out of harm's way with the nukes North Korea is developing? I think that's kind of a stretch... mostly it just means that North Korea's military can overrun South Korea that much more easily, without having to resort to nukes or go up against American troops, and it makes it look like the US is leaving South Korea twisting in the wind... I don't think the soldiers' safety was ever part of the rationale for that action... besides, they're just being sent to Iraq to get shot at over there... I'm not saying it's not a good thing they're no longer facing down Korean nukes, but it just seems like that's small consolation compared to what's left: South Korea being left to their own devices and a lot of luck, North Korea thinking they've got us on the run, and the soldiers being taken out of the way of nuclear weapons only to be thrust into Iraq's chaotic crossfire... besides all that, it teaches the world's crazies one important lesson: If you have nukes, America will back down...

  • Oct. 6, 2004, 7:39 p.m. CST

    i remember thunderbirds...

    by satansteve

    my dad was a big fan and i watched it with him when i was like, 6. i had ton of the toys and videos and stuff and i refused to see the movie on general principle...HEY WAIT! wait for it peoples, aint it cool FINALLY has a new catchphrase...Jonathan Frakes raped my childhood! you heard it here first fellow geeks! if he's lucky, i may download the movie, but i wont pay money to see it, especially when uber-fag so called 'band' (since when did miming and pretending to play guitars WITHOUT a goddam drummer qualify u as a band?!?!?!) BUSTED doing the theme song! fuck busted, fuck them in their stupid asses. ps. the UK FINALLY gets bubba ho-tep in theatres yahoooo!!

  • Oct. 6, 2004, 10:43 p.m. CST

    this review came circa 1920. it's got a lot of rib splitting ho

    by MiltonWaddams


  • Oct. 7, 2004, 5:43 a.m. CST

    Wait, it's puppets for the WHOLE ENTIRE MOVIE?!?!

    by kiddae

    Thanks for that revelation there, us plebian schmucks were hoping the marionettes were just an opening gag, like Tom Cruise et al in Goldmember. Man, when we gonna get some news on Mortal Kombat: Domination?!

  • Oct. 7, 2004, 11:13 a.m. CST

    I hope they blow up John Kerry too

    by Jeditemple

    That would make this movie perfect!

  • Oct. 8, 2004, 9:33 p.m. CST

    Check Out Sean Penn's Angry Memo to Trey and Matt

    by Jervis Tetch

    Penn's pissed. The memo's over at the Drudge Report.

  • Oct. 9, 2004, 1:27 a.m. CST

    Is it pro or con America?

    by Cabron

    Either way, the timing couldn't be better.

  • Oct. 9, 2004, 3:19 a.m. CST

    The Simpsons have already satirized every action movie cliche pe

    by HanFiredFirst

  • Oct. 9, 2004, 3:20 a.m. CST

    I wish they'd done a Vincent Gallo puppet

    by HanFiredFirst

  • Oct. 9, 2004, 3:46 a.m. CST

    The infamous Sean Penn memo...political, not personal

    by truthseekr1488"All best, and a sincere fuck you, Sean Penn" LOL (BTW he does make a serious point about politics and voting)

  • Oct. 9, 2004, 3:59 p.m. CST

    Penn's memo

    by gboybama

    The memo demonstrates the flaw all these froth-mouthed angry liberals have just days before the election. They are so convinced of the correctness of their views that they think no clear thinking American could in good faith come to any other opinion that theirs. Does this describe you? If so, reconsider tolerance and respect for the views of others.

  • Oct. 9, 2004, 9:40 p.m. CST

    Loved It!!!!

    by BigTuna

    Maybe not quite as funny as the South park film, but still hilarious!!! I loved the sex scene! The most memorable ever in film history. The songs are also great and made me want to buy the soundtrack. Bottom line: If you like South Park humor, you will laugh your ass off!

  • Oct. 9, 2004, 9:46 p.m. CST

    I have never laughed that hard.....

    by Tarven

    in a movie theater. Saw the sneak here in Tampa. All I have to say is that this movie is going to upset a lot of people who think they know whats best for the world. Moriarty couldn't be more right with this review. See it now, see it often, and bring a friend.

  • Oct. 9, 2004, 9:53 p.m. CST

    Another sneak watcher, right here.

    by Rufus_T_Firefly

    Haven't laughed that hard in a theater in years. Finally, a movie that pussies, assholes, and dicks can all agree on. Fuck yeah!

  • Oct. 9, 2004, 9:53 p.m. CST

    frododie. The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.


    To quote one of your all time favorites. Or should I say "2" speak. Seriously, you and your ilk are an embarrassment to humanity...I mean, "U R" an embarrassment. I keep forgetting 2 rite in waz u kin undererstand. Savor the final 24 days of Bush.

  • Oct. 9, 2004, 10:15 p.m. CST

    Fuck you, Sean Penn, you condescending prick

    by I Dunno

    ...basically calling Matt and Trey young dumbasses when they're clearly smarter than he is, I don't care how many Oscars the guy won for playing a twitching retard. His comment about it being irresponsible for telling uninformed voters is the exact opposite of the truth. I don't vote in local elections because I'm not familiar with city-wide issues or the qualifications of people running for my local sherriff. That's more responsible than voting randomly or based on name recognition. So basically fuck you Sean, fuck you in your Madonna given VD ass.

  • Oct. 9, 2004, 11:02 p.m. CST

    I'm with you, Luke

    by Shawn F.

    This was absolutely fucking hilarious from start to finish. If you didn't get to see it tonight, make sure you see it next weekend and get ready to laugh your fucking ass off. Thanks Trey and Matt for making the best film I have seen in the past eight months, bar none.

  • Oct. 9, 2004, 11:14 p.m. CST

    It's not about sex Gary it's about trust

    by lizardo99

    I laughed my ass off the entire movie. When the Frenchies got it (don't worry I won't spoil it for those who haven't seen it yet) I started clapping and screamed "Hell yeah!!!!" really loud. Some tight ass woman in front of me looked around like she wanted to say something, but I just kept on laughing. I noticed that the ultraliberal DC crowd in the Georgetown theatre got REAL quiet several times when some of their favorite people got what they deserved, but that just made it even better. And Kin Jong Il's "panthers?" Man don't get me started. I will be back for another viewing next week with some of my Spottswoode type friends, and all I have to say is I hope they have a really good sense of humor. Peace out.

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 12:21 a.m. CST

    holy shit, I laughed so hard I was choking for air.

    by Russman

    If you don't think this movie is funny then you have no sense of humor at all. America!!! Fuck Yeah!!!

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 12:53 a.m. CST

    My Spottswoode buddies

    by lizardo99

    were really geeked up when I raved about the movie. Not wanting to spoil one of the funny little in-jokes of the film I asked "Hey what is the name of the actor's union? It's something to do with film and actors, right?" They didn't pick up on it. But that's OK, since they will be seeing it soon enough.

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 12:59 a.m. CST

    Sneaked! In Bloomington!

    by Blacklist

    Fuck that was brilliant. I can't remember the last time I've laughed that hard. This is why I have so little patience for tripe like Dodgeball or Anchorman. I was literally wiping tears from my eyes the entire movie. The "training montage" song was used before in South Park, but so what? It's a good song. Also: Myatt Dyaaaamon! ...oh, and the Penn letter is fucking pathetic. Get a sense of humor Sean, or stick to playing retards why don't you?

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 1:03 a.m. CST

    I haven't laughed that much since "Bigger, Longer, & Uncut".

    by L.H.Puttgrass

    I hurt. I really, really hurt. The whole audience and I couldn't catch our breath from the constant barrage of jokes, one-liners, & just plain funny shit coming off the screen from start to finish. Good God that was funny. The sex scene, the puke scene, all the members of the "Guild", that crazy-ass "panther" scene... aww jeez, guys, you gotta see this movie. If you loved B,L,&U, this is your fucking movie to see next week. "I don't care who you are. That shit's funny right there." Derka-Derka-Derka!!!

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 1:06 a.m. CST

    Sean Penn! Sean Penn!

    by Blacklist

    quick! The Iraqis are having free elections now! We need to go to back Iraq to stop this horrible affront to Saddam's legitimate regime! *gasp!* Or else they might elect a leader they feel best represents the interests of the people! Bring back the acid baths, Sean, quick!

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 3:59 a.m. CST

    Sean Penn

    by pravda

    Sean Penn told the SP guys to fuck off NOT because of Iraq, NOT because of Bush, NOT because of this movie, but because of a SP episode that ENCOURAGED PEOPLE NOT TO VOTE. Despite your urges to always do precisely opposite of what "hurr ultra liberal weenie LOL" says, he has a point.

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 7:43 a.m. CST

    Penn does have a point, Pravda

    by vikingkitty

    When lazy, stupid people vote, bad things happen. People like Penn.

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 10:46 a.m. CST

    Uh, bullcrap, pravda

    by Banky the Hack

    Which episode of South Park was that? I've seen em all and I don't believe there's ever been one that encourages people not to vote.

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 4:18 p.m. CST

    Penn is mightier than the Schwarz

    by Dr Farragammo

    first off I know Sean Penn gives you guys a reason to get up in the morning convinced your right and he's wrong. Why he certainly is a conflicting figure and not the best source in the world to spout politics don't knock his acting or his films Starkiller : Mystic River & 21grams were two of the best films of last year and he is as good now as he's ever been. I'm looking forward to this movie, not like you hawks who thinks this is your payback time to moore and the like, but because Matt & Trey are fucking funny. Something that eludes Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, etc. Remember when dennis Miller was funny? Then he became a walking advert for the Bush admin and became the kind of fascist he used to rail against. the ulitmate hypocrite. They have a sense of humor and always give both sides a run for their money. The fact that you think this supports your agenda, shows you don't get the yin and yang of their satire. Now I do find it odd they bash Moore after Stone appeared in Bowling for Columbine, but that's their deal. They successfully and rightfully attacked political correctness when it was a epidemic in the 90's , and that is their first love. However I do wish they had been a bit harsher on this admin, but there are plenty of others doing that. I'm also looking forward to it simply that I grew up on Thunderbirds and captain Scarlet reruns, and love all that supermarionation shit. It's creepy and cool as hell. So I'll reserve later judgement until I see it (something you Moore haters know little about. Last Tempation of Christ-itis all over again. You say something's full of lies when you haven't even seen the goddamn film. And no, trailers don't count). You all love to go off on actors who have a liberal view, yt you champion Limbaugh and th like (not ONE of which have any qualifications to discuss politics with any more authority than Penn, Moore, etc.) They went to school for radio and media communications, just like the others went for film and acting. Ron Silver and Arnie are ok because they believe like you do, not because they're good at their craft or more informed. Somehow you never get the disconnect that both sides of the isle deserve a public forum, not whoever the FCC or Terry "cocksucker" Bozell deem offensive or unamerican. Actually I'm going to make an admission: YOU GUYS do have a very funny comedian on the republican side. A real sidesplitter actually. He made a very funny quip about multiple internets and selling wood. Any guesses?hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahha I'll also go on record that Cannibal The Musical is Matt & Trey's finest work, and they'll never top it, and they shouldn't remake it. A true classic.

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 4:29 p.m. CST

    I dunno (no you certainly don't)

    by Dr Farragammo

    "His comment about it being irresponsible for telling uninformed voters is the exact opposite of the truth. I don't vote in local elections because I'm not familiar with city-wide issues or the qualifications of people running for my local sherriff. That's more responsible than voting randomly or based on name recognition. So basically fuck you Sean, fuck you in your Madonna given VD ass. " While I think Matt & Trey are plenty smart, the statement you uttered is remarkable in it's naivete. Do you not care about where you live, and who runs it? Can you not do a little bit of research into making sure the best man or woman is woking in your community's best interest? How can you not be aware of citywide issues where you live?! hard to criticize somebody when you don't even know what happens in your backyard. get involved please, one way or the other.

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 4:58 p.m. CST

    who the hell are you yelling at, Doc?

    by Blacklist

    Who is criticizing Last Temptation? Someone here? Furthermore, do you think that people who were up in arms against Last Temptation would be seeing Team America? My unscientific guess: no. It's easy, when ranting, to start making up composite demographics of people you're against and using them like trump cards. Like,the people that really get me up in arms are the spoiled rich Marxist white college kids that meet up at Starbucks talking about Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky, and discuss what would be best for the good of the proletariat. Also most people might spend about as much time thinking about Sean Penn as an ordinary leftist might spend pulling their hair out over Bill O'Reilly and his maddening "fair-and-balenced" slogan. Not that much. And what exactly makes Dennis Miller a fascist? Are you saying he's a socialist? Or that he favors the government absorbing an industry when it's deemed something of value? Fascist is a term that probably sticks as well as "commie pinko!" especially since most people who through it around only to demean the opposition have fogotten what it means. That said, Team America is better than Cannibal.

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 5:15 p.m. CST

    If it weren't for the language...

    by Blacklist

    ...I'd say Team America should've gotten a PG-13. Can someone think of a PG rated movie where some kid simulates sex between two dolls? Puppet squibs? Maybe Takashi Miike has seriously fucked me up, but aside from the language, I didn't see anything R-rated. Hope it does well in theaters. Then again, I thought Sky Captain would take the country by storm.

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 5:35 p.m. CST

    Blacklist your not all wrong

    by Dr Farragammo

    I used Last Tempation for an example of a film picketed and demonized by the Christian Right , the vast majority who never saw the movie. Much like Fahrenheit 9/11, a film demonized for the most part by those who have never seen the film. Just trying to put a historical prescident on censorship, along with what happened by McCarthyism, something you should be well versed in given your user id. Remember how Tim Robbins was told not to show up at the Bull Durham Party? McCarthyism under a new name but a simlar theme : fascism a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. anyways that's the dictionary term so we can have a fair and balanced look at the charge. I'm sure you knowit well but others may not.Our country is being suppressed. Just ask any one who wears an anti bush shirt or sentiment at one of his campaign stops, then gets arrested. Or those protesters in the NYC march who were locked up on trumped up charges to prevent them from protesting again. Nightline did a story on this last week, with a undercover reporter wearing anti Bush gear to a Bush rally and anti Kerry gear to a Kerry rally. Guess which time he got harassed?The Patriot Act embodies much of the defintion of facism. And Dennis Millers gleeful battle cry about blowing the fuck out of the middle east because of 9/11 is nationalism at it's worst. You wanna go after the real bad guys hit saudi Arabia and North Korea, don't cherrypick like Bush and Cheney did for convieneince and personal wealth and a grudge. Miller said when 9/11 happened whatever the president deemed right was fine by him, and invade or blow up whoever he deems the enemy.That fits my accusation to the tee. But I DO GET your point about rich kids in Starbucks going off on Marx-ism. They don't know shit and are annoying to me as the art kids in high school wearing the hammer and sickle shirts, when they HAD NO clue about what was happening in Russia. So I don't pick and choose what is convienient to me for my points, I call out shit when I see it. But I agree with Penn's views on Iraq,even if he is troubled and hamfisted. But Limbaugh and O'Reilly, Hannity, etc. lose me on delivery and their worldview. But many on these boards level the charge about celebrities not having the right to speak their views, which is beyond hypocritical when they champion Limbaugh and the like , as if they have more credentials to speak of their politics. So I saw Penn getting slammed and thought I would deliver some equilibrium to the other side. Believe me, many right wingers have tried to put lefty talkbackers into a nice little package that doesn't jibe either. Facism can work for communism and National Socialism as a term but it applies equally to the theocracy Bush and Cheney are trying to enforce. And here's an interesting tidbit about the origin of the word, fascism Word History: It is fitting that the name of an authoritarian political movement like Fascism, founded in 1919 by Benito Mussolini, should come from the name of a symbol of authority. The Italian name of the movement, fascismo, is derived from fascio,

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 6:31 p.m. CST

    couple of quick points

    by Blacklist

    Dr., you know your stuff, but I have to disagree fundamentally with a couple of your points. Robbins was told to sit out the Bull Durham convention by a private individual, which is the absolute key difference between a, say, goverment crackdown on free speech, and another person excercizing his right to determine who shows up at his party. It's a very common misconception that free speech means you have the right to speak anywhere naysayers be damned. The convention organizers know what Robbins has said in the past and don't want a repeat in what they want to be a baseball event. Their decision. If you have something to say, chances are there is a platform that's willing to fund your right to do so. Similarly, many people feel that public universities shouldn't be giving a platform to obvious partisans, so on private universities, you'll find a typically wider range of guests (usually some kookier ones as well). Now, some more heated points - Theocracy? Racism? I don't know how to respond to that other than "Cool down." You seriously can't say that Bush's faith-based initiatives qualify as a theocracy, can you? Not in a middle-eastern shiaria law way, where dissent really does mean you will be put to death. You have people in public schools wiping out all references to God, and how many times has Jesus been the butt of a joke (over to Jebus!). A President motivated by his faith is a far cry from actual theocracy. One more thing: Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity have never called for liberals to be silenced. People like O'Reilly are even bending over backwards to show they aren't questioning anyone's patriotism. They make that point over and over. What they are saying is that these people don't have a right to NOT be criticized. If celebrities had to post on an internet talkback to express their opinions rather than call over some reporters, they might become more accustomed to putting up a fight before crying foul. I've probably done a lousy job responding, mainly since it's impossible to get into the racism charge without degenerating into "Am not! Are too!" Personally, I say take in a little of everything, even Fox News despite of what you may hear in Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism. I'll still be the first to concede that the war isn't about racism, in spite of an entire region of people who speak like "Ha Mallah Mallah Derka Derka!" How they understand each other is anyone's guess.

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 7:13 p.m. CST

    Sean Penn is a great actor, leave his acting alone!

    by BigTuna

    The problem with Penn is he won an oscar for a VERY overrated movie and overrated performance. And I am Sam wasn't great but just watch 21 Grams, Carlito's Way (he was amazing in it), and I just saw the Assaination of Richard nIxon at the toronto Film Fest and he's just great in it. Don't forget about dEad man walking and Sweet and Lowdown. You might hate his b.s. politics but calling him a bad actor is garbage. BTW, these talk Backs are getting WAY too political. I know the election is coming up, but there's other places to talk about it. Let's chat about movies!

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 8:05 p.m. CST


    by Dr Farragammo

    I just see things like the Robbins incident and esp. the arrests the NYC protests and Bush campaign stops (ones that were arrested for nothing other than being percieved a s a possible threat because of anti-bush sentiment) the stepping stones to what could be a new age of McCarthyism. If people were getting arrested at Kerry rallies for the same thing you could make a case that I'm overreacting but it's just not happening. But a couple of high school kids in Virginia get hauled to jail for wearing No W tshirts? c'mon. A guy gets fired for protesting the same rally because his boss is there and she's a republican? YES THIS is a individual decision but he wouldn't have been fired if she wasn't trying to tow the party line. If it happens the other way you'll never hear the end of it. It's just a major difference in opinion on our parts, but i find it troubling. The woman protesting outside of laura bush's speech gets hauled to jail. She LOST HER kid to the Iraq War for Christ's sake, they can't just escort off the property or call a family member to take care of her? She spent the night in jail. I'm sorry but I think that is a horrible thing to do to a mother who lost her son to their war, and she was treated with no respect. Anyways that's my beef on that. And I do watch FOX news to see how the other team is playing, but O'Reilly's accusation that professors at universities our pinheads Iin his Bush interview) is disconcerting, esp. since he never brings up the Dean of Law at Pepperdine as an example: Ken Starr, creep almighty. That bothers me.

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 9:31 p.m. CST

    The rumors on the internets is that TEAM AMERICA will own asses.

    by HanFiredFirst

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 10:03 p.m. CST

    Let's just drive this funmobile straight into the ground and hop

    by Blacklist

    Man, idiot stories exist on both sides of the political spectrum. I could relay a story of a teacher getting fired for putting up pictures of all the presidents in her classromm, including Bush 43. School administrators found out and she lost her job on the basis that she was displaying inappropriate partisan behavior. Obvious point coming - morons are everywhere. Always have been. Doesn't mean a "chill wind" of oppression is right around the corner. I don't know. It's late, for me. For sake of this not being off-topic BS: everyone go see Team America. Fuck yeah.

  • Oct. 10, 2004, 10:44 p.m. CST

    on this we can agree blacklist! ;-)

    by Dr Farragammo

    I can't wait to see Team America. Also, if anyone is unintiated check out season 4 of Mr Show on dvd. Some of the funniest and subversive shit ever. If you like Matt & Trey you'll love Bob & Dave! Also go rent or buy all the old Gerry Anderson's Thunderbirds, Captain Scarlet, Stingray, et. all and see where they got the inspiration from.

  • Oct. 11, 2004, 1:01 a.m. CST

    DRUDGEREPORT is reporting that Christoper Reeve has died suddenl

    by truthseekr1488

  • Oct. 11, 2004, 2:13 a.m. CST

    RIP Christopher Reeve

    by Dr Farragammo

    Unfortuantely Drudge was right JC III, cnn just confirmed it. Rest in Peace Superman. This is a fucking bummer.

  • Oct. 28, 2004, 11:57 p.m. CST

    Maaaaattt DAMMMMMONNN!

    by JAGUART

    Matt Damon!