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Fascinating Article On AvsP At BloodyDisgusting!!
Hi, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab...
Paul “What Script?” Anderson has been making a lot of noise since the release of ALIEN VS PREDATOR about how Fox took the film away from him and ruined it and how none of it is his fault and how he made a great movie and if they would ever let him put it back together, we’d all see just how great the film was...
... only that doesn’t appear to be the case. Mr. Beaks read the Shane Salerno shooting script, and said it was pretty much beat-for-beat the movie we suffered through, and now there’s a great interview with Peter Briggs over at BloodyDisgusting.com that you should definitely check out if you’re still interested in performing a post-mortem on this picture:
VERY INTERESTING, INDEED...
So will there be an AvsP: ANNIHILATION or an AvsP: THE DIRECTOR’S CUT? My bet would be no. There won’t. There were a lot of expectations pinned on the performance of this film, and Anderson let the studio down in a big way. Pointing fingers about it now can’t be doing him any favors, either.
"Moriarty" out.
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It was rather predictable that, much like his clone Uwe Boll, the cockroach would blame anyone and everyone but himself for his idiocy, ineptitute, incompetence and indolence. And judging by the responses on e.g. IMDB's boards, the 14 year olds (in mindset, not necessarily in years) believe him.
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...Boll blames primarily the writer and the studio, too. Further proof that he and Anderscum are clones.
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I saw Hero this past weekend and I honestly have to say I was way more impressed with that film than with AVP. It troubles me greatly though, because as a rule I am not a big fan of asian cinema (did you guys just hear Harry gasp?) I am a big fan of the ALIEN and PREDATOR movies so why was there a problem?
I believe that basically AVP should have been done on a way more massive scale. Watching this film you get the impression that this all goes down on one frigid night in the arctics. Where was the epicness? (if that's a word)
This film should have been so much longer (maybe even made into two or three films since basically this is the sci-fi equivalant of The Lord of The Rings) Can I get an amen? -
Caught this on the weekend.
Quite an acheivment to make a 90 minute film drag like three and a half hours.
I have never seen such a rushed film.
AVP apologists, among the multitude of plot holes-explain why the Alien took so long to gestate in the Predator
and why it took on the physiology of the creature it emerged from? -
It has been an established element of the Alien series that the Alien does take on characteristics based on its host.
I'll be one of those few people who'll stand up for AvP. I didn't think it was the greatest, and had a lot of problems with the story and dialogue, but I still enjoyed it. Maybe you all should just not take it so seriously. -
Aug 30, 2004 9:18:03 AM CDT
wow. this film really sounds like it screws the pooch big time.
by theginger twit
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perhaps they should deliver a GOOD fucking movie for a change instead of something that requires defending...
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You don't have to be taking a film seriously to know a piece of cinematic litter when you watch one. And I enjoy picking at the logic scabs of the plot.
Lets be honest, the only reason Predlien or Alidator bore the mandibles of a Predator was some oxygen thief thought it would make a great ending.
Why didn't the Alien in Alien 3 have a dog muzzle?
By that logic there should be one running around the universe with a Tom Skerrit beard. -
But then, don't all screenwriters? sk
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I'm no AvP apologist, but the "alien taking on the physiology of the creature in which it gestates" thing is pretty well established in the comics and, or so I've heard, Alien 3 (never bothered seeing it - better things to do with my time). Apparently the creature in Alien 3 was birthed from a dog, and was much more canine than the human-birthed aliens in the first two. Feel free to flame me if I'm wrong, I couldn't really give a fuck.
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Was AvP flawed? Very much so. I'm not looking to defend it at all. What makes me laugh is that so many people get caught up on nitpicking. I mean, the predator-alien deal at the end was something that was established in the Alien series. This wasn't really out of left field or anything, although I do agree, they did take it further than previously seen. But, hey, when have we ever seen a Predator-Alien? Never. Perhaps the alien simply reacted differently. Perhaps Predator genetics are stronger or different than humans. I don't know, but it's really not all that bad.
Now, you want to criticize the pathetic dialogue, the lack of character development, the really poorly directed initial fight scene between the alien and predator? I can deal with that. -
Would have split the story up into two lines. The two predators who died would have been Vincent and Jules, and we would have followed their exploits as they attempted (heroicly but unsuccessfully to clean out the hive without their cannons. "We should have brought shotguns..."). Predator One would have been Butch, and Alexa would have been Adrienne-who-forgot-the- watch, forcing the Predator to go *back* down into the Temple to get it. Maybe his wrist-bomb or something.
The point is PWA decided not to allow us any interesting points of view; if he was really creative, he would have given us a Hero Alien ( in the game, he'd be a Praetorian) and Queen defending their young. We the audience would see the confrontation from all three points of view.
Does this work? Sure as hell does in the game.
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The guy just can't make a good film. It looks like he has totally destroyed Alien Vs Predator. Good going, that's a hard thing to do! He'll be forever directing shite films based on piss poor properties from now on, he blew the good one - Driver? that game hasn't been good since the original, let's just hope they don't give him any rights to a Vice City film. He seems pretty poisonous and unoriginal, and I am with Peter Briggs on this one. He doesn't sound bitter just a little bemused with the system and its politics.
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That they fixed some of the more glaring plot holes? How many plot holes were there in the script?
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Here's a link to some guys who wrote a screwed up alien VS inbred comedy that hits DVD 11/30/04: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0004166
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How does this fucker keep getting work? Why do studios keep giving this fucking hack popular franchises to screw up? I don't get it?
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There's gotta be more footage out there, but why would the studio cut down the film? I can't imagine that they cut out lots of AvP fighting action, since that's what it was all about anyway...my only prayer is that this doesn't convince Hollywood that "no one wants to see Alien or Predator movies anymore." I WOULD like to see Anderson's R rated blood and gore cut on DVD though. Please. PG-13 Alien movies SUCK.
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Fox blamed Fincher for Alien 3 despite the script was total shit to begin with. Fincher blamed Fox, despite the direction in the movie is laboured and dull (another POV shot?).
Joss Whedon blamed Fox for Alien Resurrection, but let's be honest, the AR script was probably knocked up one afternoon between producing Buffy.
Paul Anderson is just keeping up the grand tradition...
Sadly while Fincher and Whedon have proved themselfs great film/TV makers outside the Alien world, I think the only Anderson will be directing in the future is crap videogame tie-ins: Jak & Daxter: REVELATION! -
Aug 30, 2004 12:14:06 PM CDT
Anderson "let the studio down?" It's his biggest hit ever.
by wesley snipes
Money talks and AvsP will quite likely be Anderson's most successful film. He'll get more work from it to be sure.
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His original AVP script was really good, don't get me wrong, but in this interview he comes off as a jealous prick just because Fox never used his draft. Second, I doubt Anderson would openly lie like that if he knew he'd get called in on it so easily. Three, there's already proof of deleted footage; just examine all the trailers and web featurettes that came out, and you'll see multiple shots that are not in the theatrical cut. There's even a track on the score CD called "1904", for a scene called that didn't appear in the movie. And if it turns out Briggs is right and there is no director's cut coming, fuck it, I'll eat my words, but I'll still buy the damned DVD, and I'll still enjoy the hell out of the movie, because I thought it was good stiff kick in the ass to both franchises. Bite me, haters.
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Briggs has done one film and complains about that too. He holds very little credability. Paul anderson is not a a bad film maker. I'm really not sure what it is that people are looking for in his films. I've enjoyed all of them. Except soldier. It was just a boring movie. Most of the people that don't like his movies are ones that over analyze everything. They have forgotten how to enjoy a popcorn action flick. which aliens and predator were and what aliens vs predator was meant to be.
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As bad as AVP is, he's got no room to talk. Briggs' script is just as boring and uninspired. The fact that neither guy could write a draft that didn't glom Ripley's character is proof enough.
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Aug 30, 2004 1:02:10 PM CDT
Come now, Mori. If we got extended cuts of ALIEN 3 and ALIEN RE
by tall_boy
I mean, seriously. and I'll only buy this if its a more bloody cut.
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There is a longer cut of Event Horizon. I've seen it on laserdisc. And guess what? Having read a draft or two of a script doesn't make Brigg the final say on whether or not AVP had any scenes cut from the final picture. Crybaby Briggs should realize that screenplays go through constant revision, even during shooting. Sometimes actors improvise, sometimes even the FX guys come up with ideas. When Anderson releases his true version of the film, which will happen, all you bitches will see the truth. Anderson is a better filmmaker than anyone who posts on this site.
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With all the AvP slamming, which I'm sure is fun, is it really fair? I mean, the movie has made more than $70 million in the U.S. so far. It'll undoubtably break the $100 million mark overseas. I think that would make the film, money-wise anyway, a success. Isn't that something fans of both series want?
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Aug 30, 2004 3:05:04 PM CDT
I'll tell you who is really to blame, for this cinematic atrocit
by floyd gondolli
Anderson is blaming Fox because he made a shit film, Briggs is blaming Anderson because his script wasn't filmed, Joss Whedon is blaming David Fincher because he was asked to write Alien: Ressurection, Stephen Hopkins is blaming James Cameron because his sequel isn't good, etc. But i'll tell you were it went wrong. When some prepubescent boy saw the alien skull in Predator 2, and said "wouldn't it be cool if aliens, like, fought predators" and some executive, who let's face it should know better, agreed. C'mon, the idea is shit, you have an entire movie based on a fucking movie in-joke. The was an in-joke in Back To The Future 2, but that doesn't mean I want to see Marty Vs. Jaws. Actually, that might just work...
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Aug 30, 2004 4:03:15 PM CDT
If the movie was made the right way it would have already made o
by spectrebeeyatch
I know many people who didn't see AVP simply because it was pg-13, and they were right. The movie sucked hard because the violence was lame and nothing really kick ass happened because they wanted kiddies to come see the movie. If this were R guys like me would see the movie more than once. I totally understand why people hate Anderson because he does just suck as a director and if you disagree just watch his movies again and you'll understand. Also though I think Fox had a big hand in making this movie lick balls. The movie seemed like a poor man's version of what we should be seeing. They probably spent too much money on Day After Tomorrow and I, Robot and then when it came to AVP they were like "Fuck it just make it pg-13 and have the guy who did Resident Evil do it", and that just pisses me off
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"explain why the Alien took on the physiology of the creature it emerged from" ***** There are a lot of problems with this movie but this wasn't one of them. It was established in ALIEN 3 that the creature takes on some of the genetic characteristics of its host. In that movie, the creature grew inside a Rottweiler dog and when it emerged, it ran, moved and looked somewhat doglike.
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Aug 30, 2004 6:48:36 PM CDT
It was established in ALIEN 3 that the creature takes on some o
by fearmonkey
Then explain why the dog-like creature that came out of a dog in the movie was originally supposed to come out of an Ox. See Alien 3 Quadrilogy DVD for details. And it was Alien 3 that supposedly set this precedent. It was all Fincher's idea. And it was the wrong idea. You do NOT mess with an already perfect creature by giving it different forms. In my mind, Alien 3 and Alien 4 do not exist. So taking the first two Alien movies and the two Predator movies as a reference, it was established NOWHERE that an Alien takes on the properties of its host. Why does everybody keep acknowledging the existence of Alien 3 and 4? They sucked. Ignore them and the world will be a much happier place. To my mind, however, the biggest mistake is them having the movie in Antarctica. As Briggs said, it was firmly established in the two Predator movies that Predators like the heat. Why would they go to Antarctica? It's a stupid idea from a horrible writer. Anderson's a fine director, he should just not write anything. Ever.
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Cuz then I would have put my subject line in quotes. Somebody else said my subject line and my post counters his argument. Thanks for your patience and understanding. :p
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Hands down the funniest thing I've heard in ages. But in the John Fasano Alien3 script, it was actually a sheep that the alien came out, I've not read a draft where it was an ox. It was even mentioned that the creep was wooly, scary stuff. I quite like collecting old scripts and reading the stuff that never quite makes it to the screen. One of the Terminator drafts has Kyle arriving in our time with a partner, granted he ends up being impailed on a catwalk but hey, imagine Arnie saying "okay, I'll come back later." Wouldn't that be fun? My personal view is that Paul BS Anderson sucks the big hairy balls, the only film he's made that's been any good is Event Horizon, and that was just The Shining in space. He's a bad director, admit it, I like Troma and I screamed expletives at the matrix facehugger, even a directors cut of this movie would make any self respecting fanboy puke. I actually stopped watching this to take a look at catwoman, now that's fucked up.
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Aug 30, 2004 8:24:14 PM CDT
Of course there are bonus scenes! It's standard operating proce
by frankdrebin
The studios have to aim for a PG-13 for the theatrical release, but for the dvd, anything goes (at least until the MPAA starts requiring Blockbuster and Best Buy to card dvd customers). An "unrated" sticker on a dvd is like an "explicit lyrics" sticker on a cd: tease bait for teenagers. Watch how well THE GIRL NEXT DOOR-UNRATED does.
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was'nt it implied in Alien that the alien takes on traits of the host?
that is why they referred to the alien as "Kane's Son" in the movie.
it is rather implied in the gestation period as well, X+Y=Z.
wonder what the alien looked like mixed with the giant in the chair onboard the derelict?
it took seeing Alien3 probably to put it together, because they really did not deal with the heavy psychological aspects in Aliens. -
The film may have grossed $70 million in the US, but these are not great figures for what is a film based on (and I use this term very loosely) the 'fusion' of two of the most dynamic and exciting scifi/action concepts of recent times. Even Tim Burton's 'Planet of the Apes' remake - trading on an established 'brand' - managed to gross about $180 million US three years ago despite its gross inadequacies. I'm a fan of both film universes, and as much as I am antipathetic to seeing one played off the other, I would in all likelihood be drawn into seeing a smart and stylish action flick combining them. This current opus of course isn't anything remotely smart or stylish. So I'll be fucked if I'm going to waste my money on it. A truly inspired, nah, even just a halfway decent AVP movie would've grossed $200-250 million guaranteed. So stop beating it up like its box office performance is even slightly commendable. Fuck this movie in its retarded ear.
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What really kills me is that a lot of people (including Harry) seem to think AvsP merited a huge budget, and should have been a major "Event." Puh-leeze! Predator 2 and Alien Resurrection were both huge disapppointments, and even Alien 3 to an extent. The flick is obviously done on a limited budget, and that was probably smart because I really don't think it would have made more money if it had been "better." A very large segment of the moviegoing public is never going to see a movie called "Alien vs. Predator." It's a strictly-for-fans movie. Knowing the concept, lack of major name talent involved, etc, no one should be surprised by what this movie is, or isn't. ps. I think that writer sounds rather whiny as well. I imagine that what PWSA means by deleted scenes is deleted gory killings, which the writer didn't consider significant but we horror/action/thrill fans want!
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That was some funny shit. It would have been funnier though if the alien had burst from his chest rather than John Hurt's. Dude, when was the last time you saw Alien? Anyway, the aliens taking on characteristics of their hosts is very much canon. No use complaining about that, folks. As for this boner's assertion that there "is no director's cut" - how the hell would he know? Besides, it's not only Anderson. Bova also said a lot of his scenes were cut from the film. And yes, there IS a longer version of Event Horizon on laserdisc, like the previous talkbacker stated. It's funny -- the one guy "involved" in the production of AvP who is in the least favorable position to know anything about alternate cuts is the one who gets the authoritative respect from this site regarding that very subject. Very interesting.
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Just kidding, but I'm sure that hasn't been ruled out yet by some people. This movie was really a terrible disappointment. Was it watchable? Yes. Anytime you stick an Alien and a Predator on the same screen it's going to be watchable movie. Shit, you could put those two things in a movie without a script and I'm sure it would have still grossed about 70 million here and the same overseas. Harry's review of this film was his best ever. He made a great point that what the film really lacked was a kick-ass military unit to make this more of a three way fight. These characters, as well as the actors they got to play them, were lame. After this movie and Lord Of the Rings I've heard enough Eurotrash accents to last me a lifetime. The setting was extremely lame too. Why did Anderson insist on taking these creatures out of their element. The Predator always engages in a hot, hostile climate. The Aliens are always on a space ship or space colony. The south pole? C'mon, that was very uninteresting. If they had just set this movie on a space station and had Colonial Marines duking it out with Predators and ALiens that would have been 10 times better. They dropped the fucking ball with this one.
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Aug 31, 2004 5:43:39 PM CDT
Aliens made about $80M domestic if I recall, Alien less than tha
by iamnotreal
with foreign gross and video still to come...not that I want it to succeed, mind you, I didn't even see it...but those of you hoping this will be the death knell for PWSA's already too-long career might be disappointed. It's gonna turn a profit. I'm just sayin' is all.
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Did anyone notice the lead predator's mouth was all messed up? It might have been to show how 'different' each type of Yautja can be, but it looked terrible. Instead of some horrendous alien maw driving fear into your heart, it just looked like a dumb fish. Maybe Jean Claude came back for another crack at the suit this time, that's why it sucked.
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Aug 31, 2004 9:38:16 PM CDT
siple fact is, highly-paid Fox executives are finding out what T
by ol' painless
That placing the Aliens/Predator franchises in the hands of that idiot Anderson was a business decision right up there with investing in snake oil shares. I mean, seriously, what is the strange hold this guy has on Hollywood execs? He has no sense of plot, pacing, style or storytelling. He's like a stretched-out George Lucas. The only chance us Aliens/Predator fans have is that the movie makes just enough money that Fox will get their coke-snorting faces out of their own arses just long enough to green-light a sequel. And HIRE A DIRECTOR WITH SOME TALENT. NO, THIS DOES NOT MEAN MCG, SO FORGET THAT IDEA YOU OVER-PAID-NO-BRAINED-SUIT-WEARING-MONKEYS
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...that the Pyramid was originally built in a warm climate area but over the eons, the earths axis (or something) shifted and the pyramind ended up in an arctic climate. Whatever, the movie, while mildly cool, was pretty much a disappointment for me. I didn't expect 95% cliche factor (no, I didn't read any reviews/spoilers before going in). Gee, who would've ever suspected the queen alien would pop up out of the ice at the last minute?
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http://home.comcast.net/~g.nikolashin/deleted.htm
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yet this website still takes time to bash this guy. I love the amount of venom AICN had for Paul WS Anderson while they claim to be waiting for him to do something good and are willing to give him a chance. However off base Scorched Planet is, they have a point about how this site reacts to certain people.
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