July 7, 2004, 3:35 a.m. CST
by Nekki Basara
Going... through... withrawls...
July 7, 2004, 3:37 a.m. CST
seriously, just groan.
July 7, 2004, 3:40 a.m. CST
by Nekki Basara
As much as I'd enjoy seeing a production focused on Wesley, it seems highly unlikely, as it would have to take place before Angel's finale. As far an official timeline is concerned, that wouldn't give Mutant Enemy a lot of room to maneuver.
July 7, 2004, 4:19 a.m. CST
by Prof. Pop-Cult
1) An "Angel" follow-up TV movie, produced for air on TNT. Why? Because TNT has been running "Angel" and it seems to do pretty well for that network. One TV movie to start could probably be produced for a frugal budget of around $3 million. If it does well, then TNT could commission more telefilms. 2) A "Fray" TV series on the FX Network. This could perhaps be produced on a low budget, similar to the way "The Shield" and "Nip/Tuck" are. This would be its own self-standing series that happens to be set in the Buffyverse. So, immortal characters like Spike and Illyria could guest star in this.
July 7, 2004, 4:30 a.m. CST
maybe there's some truth in it afterall, hehe
July 7, 2004, 4:46 a.m. CST
These movies will happen when pigs fly, or when Sarah Michelle Gellar deigns to come back to the role of Buffy, whichever comes first (and their likelihood is about even). Really -- does *anyone* want to see a Willow movie? An Anya movie? A *Kennedy* movie? Uh huh. This is just typical "fling insane ideas out there and see if anybody bites" wanking by Whedon and Greenwalt. The entire cast is far too old even to be playing college graduates now.
July 7, 2004, 5:11 a.m. CST
As the site linked mentioned Spike, Giles, Willow, and Wesley. As mentioned above Wesley is dead. So in supporting character movies I would say Spike, Giles, Willow, and Zander. Doesn't Anthony Stewart Head have a show in England, or was that a no go? Irregardless won't there be a DVD of some sort.
July 7, 2004, 5:19 a.m. CST
I have always wanted to see what happened to Oz during the time that he left and travelled the world to find a cure. It is something I thought would be really cool since I saw the episode when he returned and kissed Willow under a full moon without changing.
July 7, 2004, 5:24 a.m. CST
by pogo on my own
For the life of me, I cant understand you people who are infatuated with this show.
July 7, 2004, 5:36 a.m. CST
I could see it working. Cause by focusing on the Buffyverse as a whole, rather than Angel or Buffy specifically, means you wouldn't need DB or SMG to make big appearances (if at all). Be a good way of testing pilots for a Spike or Williow series, or even the fabled 'Ripper' series. I think it'd rock (then, I think most stuff Joss does rocks though, so not an unbias view.) ;o)
July 7, 2004, 5:39 a.m. CST
Yep, Anthony S Head has got a part on Monarch of the Glen, but being the UK, we don't tend to do 24 ep runs of shows (think 7 or 8 is average), so he would still have time to fit a TV movie in. :o)
July 7, 2004, 6:29 a.m. CST
But a Spike move ?! or one involving Giles ?? FUCK off grandads ..
July 7, 2004, 6:55 a.m. CST
by Bart of Darkness
Even 0 is too many!
July 7, 2004, 7:16 a.m. CST
...I can't stand anything about the Buffiverse, but I'm coming to understand why people like it so much. That said, I think at some point, the Buffiverse has to just stop rolling. Can't you fans let the actors out of the Buffy boxes you built for them and let them have careers outside Buffy? Not that I think you should support and praise their outside careers *because* they were on Buffy (Seriously, everyone praises how wonderful each of the Buffy actors are, but have any of them been widely accepted as successes outside of Buffy? And Scooby-Doo doesn't count.) Do you really want the Buffiverse to become a sad caricature of itself, the way Star Trek and Star Wars are?
July 7, 2004, 8:32 a.m. CST
I'm not going to hold my breath for something that may not even be true and even if it is, it ain't a sure thing. Oh yes, movies on people like Giles, Willow, Spike, Ilyeria, Faith, or Oz could be outstanding, but I don't dare get too hopeful. Plus, the backlash for the Buffyverse on Talkback seems to be all that's left.
July 7, 2004, 9:46 a.m. CST
Jumpstart, once the Buffyverse starts growing stale, I'll be on the front line of people calling for its demise. I love "Buffy" as I loved "Star Trek," and I've weeped (well, groaned) as that franchise sank into the Berman-and-Braga morass of "Voyager" and "Enterprise." But although the last two seasons of "Buffy" mostly limped to a conclusion, the final season of "Angel" proves to me that there's some life in this franchise yet. Jesus on a jumping juniper, they're trying to go ahead with a cartoon series based on the early seasons of "Buffy"--and they're doing it without Sarah. If they have that much chutzpah, I don't think four TV movies would be such a problem. As to those of you who hate the show and/or don't understand why anyone would ever watch it, STOP POSTING ON THE DAMN BUFFY/ANGEL TALKBACKS! For God's sake, really! I don't understand why people watch "West Wing," either. But you never see me saying, "President Bartlett sucks, I wish the show would just die!" Is it so abhorrent to you that amidst the pock-marked wasteland of primetime television, a couple people have found a universe they actually ENJOY? "Wonderfalls" is cancelled, "Miracles" is cancelled, "Farscape" is gone, and "Firefly" may only have been saved temporarily by a silver-screen transfusion. I would have loved to follow those shows and others like them, but I'll take what I can get. Even a limping, on-its-last-legs Buffy spinoff would be better than another insipid reality show. Deal with our fandom, and find someplace else to peddle your poison.
July 7, 2004, 10 a.m. CST
by The Outlander
My choices would be Angel, Spike, Faith & Willow for the four Fox/WB TV movies. Ripper as a BBC TV Movie/Mini-series and Buffy as Movie at the Cinema. Because Joss Whedon is in charge to me it isn't a case of will they happen but when will they happen.
July 7, 2004, 10:33 a.m. CST
Normally I would think it's just a wishful rumour, but Joss is a man possessed and getting things done. He is currently working on the Firefly movie, the Buffy animated series and the X-Men comic. I can't even imagine having that much drive and energy. The man just won't let things go, and I for one am extremely grateful.
July 7, 2004, 10:34 a.m. CST
by Barry Egan
I want to see the Buffyverse on the big screen the way Joss would intend it. This is why we fans of all things Whedon MUST see "Serenity" in droves.
July 7, 2004, 10:51 a.m. CST
So you don't like the Buffyverse, fine. I'm not picking on you so much as asking everyone who comes to any talkback about the revival of any cancelled show and says "It sucked - don't make any new ones" to explain why they took the time to post such a note. How does it effect you in the least what happens with any television show you don't like? Why are you unable to just ignore the whole issue? If you don't think a show deserves a revival "because point A, point B, and point C", that is what makes talkbacks fun and interesting. To just post "it sucked and you people are idiots for liking it" only marks you as the lowest of sad, Internet bottom feeder - the troll. So - again I ask in all seriousness and in great curiosity, why do you care if there are Buffyverse movies or not?
July 7, 2004, 11 a.m. CST
Marsters' exact words are here: http://www.buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=5308
July 7, 2004, 11:11 a.m. CST
by Rapmaster C
If people don't like Buffiverse, why come to the talkbacks to comment on them? Its just really stupid to do that. As for the movies, its a great idea - Buffiverse is not getting stale whatsoever. The only reason Star Trek seemingly got stale is because there are now 5 different shows! In Buffiverse, there's only Buffy and Angel, both of which are gone (sob!). But seriously, how can they do the movies without Angel being in one ? I know he might have reservations unless it was a big-screen movie, but focusing on secondary characters might be hard to pull off. At least a Spike one would be good, but Giles or Willow might be less interesting without the rest of the gang around.
July 7, 2004, 12:08 p.m. CST
Why is death an end-point for a character in a Buffyverse story?! Buffy, Spike, Angel, Harmony and many others have died during the course of the story, but been brought back. For Wesley, I think it would be very interesting to have him resurected. He had really been going dark and stormy, but didn't have an anchor for that darkness... if he were some form of undead (not a vamp... too done), then I think he could really pull off some interesting things. You could easily make a movie about Wesley's resurection and tie it in to a larger Buffyverse story. Depending on if it were the last of the four or not, you could either have his resurection BE the arc or Wesley is just one of the people needed for the resolution. Imagine, "hi Wesley. I know you were dead and all, but we need you to collect all of the information the Watchers had and start a new group that keeps tabs on the whatever-number-of-thousand Slayers that are running around now." ... heh. Oh, and another person that I'd LOVE to see a movie about: Winifred. Her "soul was destroyed"... yeah right, and Angel was trapped forever in a hell dimension and Connor was too. One way to bring her back... Illyria descides that she's the only one who can teach her to fit in, so she duplicates herself (we still don't know exactly what powers she still has) and replaces the duplicate's memories with the fragments of Fred's mind that are left. That could get REALLY fun if Fred ends up having some of Illyria's power. Of course, you know one of them would be about Angel, so Angel, Fred, Wesley and Spike. That leaves Gunn, Lorne and Cordie from Angel. I doubt they'd do pure-Buffy characters, but perhaps. Willow would be a good one. Anya would be nice as a background character, but I don't see her having enough depth for a full movie. Please, dear gods, none of the comic relief characters from Buffy... PLEASE!
July 7, 2004, 1:26 p.m. CST
You are so damned right. I'm so sick of people who don't give a shit about the show/movie/dvd/comic book/person that the article is about AND THEN POST SOMETHING which is basically just going to show what total morons these sorts of people are.
July 7, 2004, 2:01 p.m. CST
My first vote is a tie between the two best recurring characters the shows ever had: Xander Harris and Wesley Wyndam-Price. Why? Because they were the two unluckiest people in the Buffyverse when it came to love. Xander had a fling with Cordelia, a sorta-kinda affair with Willow (WHICH SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED, DAMNIT!!!), a one-hour stand with Faith, and a really fun relationship with Anya, which ended, well, I don't think the word BADLY is a strong enough description. I'd personally just really like to see Nicholas Brendon doing more stuff (other than painkillers)And Wes, holy shit, was he unlucky in love. I hesitate to even include his lusting for Cordelia in BTVS because Wes is a much more potent character on ANGEL, but on that show, we have an abbreviated love affair with Virginia Bryce (who is actually the only paramour of Wes' to live), an "I owe you a dollar" relationship with Lilah Morgan which ended with a beheading followed by him trying to save her soul from W&H, and a beautiful, passionate and ultimately heart-breaking love with Winifred Burkle. Can anybody forget the time that he shot his own "father" because he dared to threaten her life? Almost every post-second season show was a joy to watch because of Alexis Denisof. If this man does not become a recognized actor in TV or Film, there's something wrong (unless he's doing stage stuff, which is great!) Another character I'd like to see more of is Illyria. Once Fred had passed, Illyria filled a void with a void. What I mean by that is that she was so devoid of human emotion that when she started to experience it herself, it was a joy to watch. One of the characterisms that I loved that Amy Acker brought to Illyria was that Bride-of-Frankenstein sudden cock of the head. Ah, fuck it, just make a film with Amy as one of her characters. Doesn't really matter which. She's fucking incredible as either one. Hey, how about a movie about the beginning of her exploits on Lorne's homeworld? Third, Oz. Enough said. (or as much as he'd say) Last but not least, RIPPER!!!! Going toe-to-toe in a last-man-standing necromancer match against Ethan Rayne. How fucking cool would that be? As much as I love them, we've seen enough of Spike and Willow to last forever. I just don't think any of the other characters would warrant a two-hour TV movie. Before I hop on out of here, I just want to add that that joke about Nick Brendan was in incredibly poor taste. I dearly hope that he recovers completely and returns to the big or small screen very soon. Anyway, floppybunnyhead out.
July 7, 2004, 2:05 p.m. CST
I'm as big a fan as anyone here but I really don't want to seem some overzealous execs turn this into Trek. I hope Joss has control over his franchise and I hope unlike Lucas and various scions Rodenberry he knows when to call it quits. We really don't need a Buffy 5: The Undiscovered Hellmouth. We've done the going out on a high note part. Let something fresh have a chance.
July 7, 2004, 2:37 p.m. CST
I would love to see how he got the nickname Ripper. Bring back Ethan to taunt him. Make it dark, dirty, and mysterious. I would love to see this. Very disappointed that Giles' history was never fully exposed when the series was on.
July 7, 2004, 2:48 p.m. CST
I doubt that "Buffy 5: The Undiscovered Hellmouth" or its ilk will be a problem. (And I liked Star Trek VI! Ouch!) If you've read some of the things Joss had to say about the end of "Buffy," it's clear that he was very ready for it to end. And while he wrote that he thought "Angel" was going out too soon--at the height of its creative powers--another season would probably have seen him ready to shut that show down as well. These TV movies (if true), maybe a film, the long-promised Ripper project, and the cartoon series should be enough to finish Joss Whedon's association with the Buffyverse. I'm sure that it'll live on in comics and novels, but I doubt if we'll see much more with his name on it. Right and all, I say. As cool as it would be, we don't really need a TV series based on Fray, or Faith, or Spike, or anyone else. If Joss comes up with ideas for those, I'll be glad to see them. But if not, I don't want him to force himself and ruin the 'verse. I'd just as soon see the continuation of "Firefly." Or something new and fresh and full of life and possibilities. After so many years of entertaining stories and characters, I trust the Whedon. We should all trust the Whedon. Oh, and RapMaster C and floppybunnyyhead...thanks for the kick-ass responses! Now, if only more people would figure out that I'm always right, the world would be a much better place...heh.
July 7, 2004, 3:10 p.m. CST
by Prof. Pop-Cult
While the WB and TNT are sister networks, they are under no direct obligation to one another. That's how it works in this business -- TNT can negotiate with Fox Television to fund the production of an "Angel" telefilm for air exclusively on TNT. TNT really is the best network to try to pitch the idea to -- but for only ONE telefilm, to start off. If it does well in the ratings, then we can talk about producing more. Frankly, I felt that the viewer campaign to save the series was misguided and belied a misunderstanding of how this business works and how the money flows. We would get more mileage if we wrote letters to both TNT and Mutant Enemy to ask them to do an "Angel" telefilm for TNT....... Now, as for a "Fray" series, I think FX (sister company to FOX network and the Fox Television production company) would possibly consider a pilot for a series -- as a 13-episode per season series, shot on 16mm (like "The Shield" and "Nip/Tuck" are).......... The problem with these rumors of spin-off movies featuring individual characters in the Buffyverse, and other such fan-fict sounding nonsense, is that they are not ideas which could stand well on their own, and provide realistic audience numbers and advertising and licensing revenue for a network. So it really boils down to an "Angel" telefilm or a new self-standing series. (The "Buffy" toon sounds perfect for Cartoon Network to pick up.) But, unfortunately, the window of opportunity for an "Angel" telefilm for TNT is closing as the months go by -- as the relevant people behind the series move further and further away into other work. Somebody at Mutant Enemy needs to start pitching this idea, if Joss is too busy with his space cowboy movie. Either that, or the fanbase for "Angel" needs to get a write-in campaign started up to suggest this ASAP.
July 7, 2004, 3:22 p.m. CST
Generally when they got away from the story arch and did a stand alone episode, it was a "all about Xander" or "Willow and Anya screw something up"-type episode. Also, they're generally easier to follow for the non-fan because you don't have to know the backstory of fifty characters. Throw in that it's easier to fit one or two major actor's schedules in rather than everybody's for a reunion movie and this totally makes sense.
July 7, 2004, 3:40 p.m. CST
WillowFan2001: WORD. All hatin' others: Please just go fuck yourself. That way at least something with 2 legs will in this lifetime.
July 7, 2004, 3:53 p.m. CST
please dont. leave the cookie dough in the oven for good. you cant salvage that mess.
July 7, 2004, 4:55 p.m. CST
...is the Whedon and Whedonites in general have a hard-on for continuity. Thats one the many things that make his shows so great. I just don't seem Whedon doing a Spike movie that takes place after the Angel finale and have him not explain what happened. I for one would have an aneurism. On another note a Fray series on FX would be interesting. If its done in that dirty, shaky camera style that The Shield and Firefly use to great effect. And if they stick to FX's MO of making somewhat dark and (for lack of better world) edgy, character driven shows. FX so far though has stuck to making "based on a true story" or reality based shows with a twist like The Shield and Nip/tuck, which are essentially a cop show and a doctor show. Something Sci-Fi from them may turn out differently. On an off topic note, when FX first bagan running promos for the Shield it was called Rampage. Anyone know why the name was changed? Just curious.
July 7, 2004, 5:01 p.m. CST
Just picture it--forced to pretend she's Fred and move back to Texas with Fred's family, Illyria must now juggle the life of a super-smart ranch girl with that of an ageless demon trying to regain her powers and conquer this (and other conveniently adjacent) dimensional plane!
July 7, 2004, 5:17 p.m. CST
by Big Papa
If Boreanaz doesn't want to do the movies, then just say Angel died in the battle and they believe he was redeemed and got to go to Heaven at last. Spike and Illyria are the only ones that lived, and only because after Angel and Gunn died they decided they're going to need reinforcements, and so they retreated. The first TV movie starts with Spike and Illyria, on a motorcycle, on the run from the Senior Partners. Then cut to: Willow and the Slayer school. The first movie is all about them, and we find out what's been going on with them. The movie ends with Spike and Illyria showing up and asking them for help. The End.*****The second movie is all about Giles and the Watchers. Now we get a story about them. The second movie ends with Giles getting a phone call from the US. It's Willow. They need help. The End.****The third movie is then about (Buffy? Faith? Xander? The Initiative?), and we get a story about that character now. The third movie ends with Spike and Illyria coming along and enlisting their help now, too. The end of the third movie then sets up the big SPIKE movie, which comes last and wraps the Buffyverse up with a big last battle against the Senior Partners. At the end of the fourth movie, Spike shanshus and Buffy (or some other slayer) rids the world of the demons. The End.
July 7, 2004, 7:33 p.m. CST
Those two need their stand alone movies. Much better villains than Catwoman.
July 7, 2004, 8:39 p.m. CST
Finally a plan emerges to keep the buffyverse going atleast in the short term. Here's what I see as 2 the movies. 1. Spike with possibly Illyria as the female lead. 2. Willow, in a slayer school focused movie hopefully sans Kennedy. As for 3 and 4 I have no clue. I mean sure you have a lot of characters but I don't think characters like Xander or Andrew or even heaven forbid the potential slayers offer enough to sustain their own hour and a half movie. Hopefully Joss will comment on this to fill in the details. Regardless this is great news for fans of ME and I can't wait to hear more.
July 7, 2004, 9:33 p.m. CST
Alyson Hannigan has 10 times the personality of Jessica Simpson, Elisha Cuthbert and Jennifer Garner. But Mutant Enemy should wait until TRU CALLING is axed, so Faith can come to the party. And I've said it before: the fans will accept somebody else as Buffy. And I bet the rest of the cast wouldn't exactly be heartbroken if Gellar didn't return.
July 7, 2004, 9:44 p.m. CST
James Marsters was on Oz TV show ROVE LIVE Tuesday night and said the same thing. Hopefully it comes true. But I'd rather see a Buffy/Angel Movie Movie, so everyone make Firefly a big success. I'll see it even though we didn't get the series down here, and it's all your fault Yanks
July 7, 2004, 10:30 p.m. CST
by Prof. Pop-Cult
It should be pitched to FX as a nitty-gritty, in-your-face sci-fi actioner: A teen-age punkish girl who fights demons and monsters in the far future. "Fray" would only "just so happen" to be set in the Buffyverse. Since we're talking about FX here, the series couldbe more violent and bloody when it comes to the fights and action. While the network skews more toward young males, the series could also possibly bring in extra female viewers to the network. But one argument in favor as for why FX should try a "Fray" series: "Angel" brought in a large male viewer demographic for the WB (which skews more toward young females). ...... Really, I fail to see why Mutant Enemy doesn't seem to be pursuing these more realistic avenues for preserving and extending the Buffyverse franchise ("Fray" on FX; "Angel" telefilm for TNT; "Buffy Animated" for Cartoon Network). It's frustrating because these ideas paired with these networks seem so OBVIOUS and, most importantly, DO-ABLE. My only guess as to why none of this is happening is perhaps because Joss is a little tired of TV and wants to concentrate on making movies now. And so his production company doesn't have any one person now whose only job is to look out for their TV properties. Dammit, they should hire me to do this! :-)
July 7, 2004, 10:54 p.m. CST
by Barry Egan
Looks that way, anyway.
July 8, 2004, 2:46 a.m. CST
by Jimmy Jazz
I'm sure the actress is a nice person and all, but damn I hated that Faith lite bitch. And I agree with the guy who said that the fans would accept re-casting Buffy. I say Jordon Ladd with blonde hair. Or how Scarlett Johansson? That would kick buttock. Yes, she is about the same age of Dawn, but she can play older.
July 8, 2004, 6:28 p.m. CST
These will be worth it if Whedon brings back Tara and patches up the ROTTEN mess he made in killing her off. The whole show seemed to fall apart after that. Lost its center. Kennedy was a cheap-shot, a sucker punch, no two ways about it. Willow and Tara had more natural chemistry together than any other relationship in the entire run of the series. Screwing that up was so wrong, and the show was never the same. If Whedon is planning on doing ANYTHING AT ALL with Willow's character, he needs to start with Tara. Anything else would be half-assed and hollow.
July 9, 2004, 12:30 p.m. CST
I posted that idea here when they first announced the newfound interest in the Buffy toon. So, by that rationale, they should hire ME!
July 9, 2004, 12:49 p.m. CST
Anything in the Buffyverse is great, and I would love to see any movie (television or film) that Whedon writes, but how about one more series that stars a character everyone enjoys. For me I think that character needs to be Spike. I know people like Willow, Xander, Giles, even Andrew and Dawn but Spike has the most potential to lead off an hour long drama by himself. At the end of Buffy and of Angel Spike was still growing, still evolving, and who wouldn't be interested in seeing how the Shan Su prophecy really turns out. Spin off Spike, bring Xander, Illiria, and Dawn over as well and every once and a while have Willow, Giles, and Buffy stop by and say hey. I would watch, maybe others would to.
July 9, 2004, 1:18 p.m. CST
I can't believe none of you have suggested HBO for a new Whedonverse series. TNT? Please. HBO is the only venue good enough for Joss' vision. And did someone up there actually say "irregardless?" Please shoot them.
July 9, 2004, 11:56 p.m. CST
You can pretty much breeze through season 1 as you wish, but be sure to catch the ender, Prophecy Girl. Then just kick it with season 2 and go from there. Season 2 is what hooked me. Its what hooked my convert friends and family too. You'll be a lifer if you start with 2. Do it.
July 10, 2004, 1:53 p.m. CST
First off, I hated that weak, lazy-eyed bitch Tara. And the arrogant lesbian mini-slayer was worse. Okay, this is what the Angel movies should be like (and would be if mr. Whedon hired me as a staff writer!): It starts where the last ep left off. Outside the Hyperion, Angel and co are kicking ass and taking names, but are completely surrounded. Illyria offers to try to use the last of her reserves and open a portal, but comments that at her current strength level there would be no way of determining where or if they would end up. Possibly in deep space or inside a mountain. Spike says "anywhere's better than bloody here love." And she opens the portal which sucks the team into it. Gunn opens his eyes and is in bed. His wounds are bandaged, and outside is a white-sanded beach. At first he believes he is in heaven, but discovers that he is in fact on a small island, a few centuries ago. In his adventure, he takes on some vamp-pirates (thus earning the trust of the villagers), falls for the daughter of the island's elder and has to unite the townspeople and surviving vampirates against a Voodoo necromancer who seeks to cast a spell to kill and ressurect the island folk and take over the world with a zombie army. Guest appearance by Julie Benz (Darla), perhaps. Cliffhanger ending. Movie 2: Angel wakes up in a thick, dark forest. He is discovered and attacked by a group of primitive humans, but gains their trust when he helps them drive off a demon that appears in their primitive village. Illyria appears in spectral form and tells Angel that he is trapped in the past, at the time when civil warring and human revolt drove the ancient demons from Earth. Flashbacks show enslaved humans building temples to these immense beings, then later revolting against them. Angel becomes like a general to them, showing them how to kill demons and construct nets, bows and arrows. Theydrive off many demons. Angel discovers that the demon ( from the start of the ep) that has been attacking the villagefolk is the last 100% demon vampire in the Earth realm, and therefore the progenitor of him and of all vampires on Buffy or angel. Angel seeks to destroy it so that the evil of Angelus, The Master etc never occurred. We then see a montage of images from the series where vampires have attacked people (including Angelus). Angel tracks it down, Dozens of humans die trying to kill it (it's bigger and more deadly than the ubervampires from Buffy)and Angel only manages to stay in the fight by drinking a little of it's blood (using the trick he last on Hamilton). They manage to badly hurt it and the ghostly Illyria appears, warning that despite the evil that vampires have done, : 'One day a vampire will set humanity free' and if Angel stopped the True vampire from siring before he left this dimension, the human race would face a dire threat. Illyria dissapears before she can say any more. Angel ponders this, and decides to kill it anyway. With the help of a young boy primitive, he kills it. - But the boy takes a lethal wound. Angel reconsiders his decision and Illyrias warning and sires the dying boy, thereby creating the first human vampire. Spike wakes up in an alley in Los Angeles, 2035. It seems perfectly ordered, but really it is all controlled by Wolfram and Hart, who now control everything - even the government. Most people are brainwashed puppets, doing what they are told by W&H-controlled TV's and P.A. systems. He investigates and meets up with Connor, who is now the leader of the failing resistance against W&H. Spike breaks into W&H's HQ and discovers that W&H are planning to bring back the senior partners into the world. Spike sees that the Wolf, ram and hart are huge cthuloid demons ('wolf' having a resemblance to a 100ft demonic werewolf for example). Harmony appears (looking the same age but with a Kristianna Loken haircut and a dark-coloured business suit.) She greets Spike and asks him whether she wants to join the winning side, for old time's sake. He refuses, and she sucker punches him across the room. She explains that not only has she "learned a few moves these past few decades" but also has been fed unholy power by the partners. As a consequence she is tougher and smarter. Spike escapes and meets up with the resistance. They try to think up a plan. Angel and co arrive in the future (thanks to a now-refreshed Illyria) and find Spike. They attack W&H HQ about an hour before the ritual to bring back the Partners was supposed to happen. Angel and Spike, Connor and Illyria get involved in various battles and such a'la the final episode, and there are really cool fight scenes. Angel sneaks to the control room where all the brainwashing equipment is and makes a motivational speech by satellite to humanity to wake up and overthrow the oppressors who have got them as slaves. it works, and everywhere- humans rise up against their demonic masters. Spike is getting his butt kicked by super-Harmony without Angel's help. She reveals that when " The final crystal is in place, the doors will open." Harm put the final piece of magical crystal in place and does a trademark villian laugh. A heavily bleeding Spike gets up, lands a few good blows as a portal opens and we see the wolf, ram and hart getting closer. Just as they get close to coming through, Spike grabs the 'key' piece of crystal and puts it in Harms pocket, then throws her through the portal, where the Wolf-demon eats her (and it) whole. The portal closes and Spike says "good dog". Before collapsing. The gang shakes hands with Connor, who vows that "we (humans) will never allow ourselves to get this close to destruction again. Illyria takes them all home, where Angel comments that they still have to defeat the W&H of the present day. "We will" staes Angel. "But first, we need food, baths and some sleep!" the gang agree and laugh and walk down a dark alley to discuss whether to get some Chinese or Pizza. THE END.
July 10, 2004, 3:04 p.m. CST
I agree--the ultimate butt-monkey should get his own tv movie.
July 10, 2004, 4:52 p.m. CST
Well pretty much that whole thing sounded pretty sweet and epic. I would watch, although I had to laugh at the thought of "Super Harmony", although I would love to see Mercedes in any shape or form I could, how can you justify the senior partner's giving her of all people Harmony Kendle, their power. What I think would be a cool idea in the Spike movie would have him in the future like you did but instead put him in the "Fray" universe where he has to protect the slayer from Fray from all kinds of evil. Then explain something bad happened to all the slayers including Buffy shortly after the events in Not Fade Away. They could throw in some backstory about how if she doesn't become slayer the world will end or some such thing. Get kind of an Obi-Wan and Luke relationship going between the 2 of them. I think something like this could warrent its own series.
July 11, 2004, 12:22 p.m. CST
Just get another series on the air. Help satisfy the hunger. And I don't mean no Snickers bar either. A new series with a new group of actors/actresses ready to enter this great universe.
July 11, 2004, 7:37 p.m. CST
I think the first episode I ever saw was the final episode or one just prior to it. I didn't like it but it really was a matter of not being able to appreciate it since I had little to no background of these characters to contextualize the meaning of these situation(s) they were in. But I visited my sister the other day and she made me sit down and watch an episode from one of the DVDs. It was really, Really, REALLY good! It was the episode when (SPOILERS!!!! for Buffy newbies - like any of you are reading this anyway) Buffy's mother died. Whedon wrote and directed. Solid stuff. Great acting all around. Really liked the scene where Willow couldn't figure what to wear before going to the hospital. Incredibly well shot, lighting and compositions not really synonymous with TV, it was more cinematic. I told my sister halfway through the episode that it reminded me of "Unbreakable." That movie was about applying the standard superhero origin formula to a contemporary depiction of reality, meaning I was more interested in seeing the superhero dealing with domestic problems at home than ridding the world of bad guys. Same with this episode. It was about how a common, yet very traumatic tragedy like the death of a loved one can effect their human feelings, but more importantly, what this death meant to them and their world as a group of vampire killers, witches, demons, etc. Though, as much as I really liked it, I couldn't help but suspect that "Buffy" suffers from the "X-Files" syndrome: the overall, season after season story begins to bore me, but the individual, self-contained episodes always rock. Well, I just wanted to pipe in and say that I now know what all the hub-bub is about this show. Whedon definitely has a geek heart but he also seems disciplined enough to stay true to his characters (I'm guessing), which is all too rare these days. I don't think I have the time to go back and start the series from the beginning, but I've definitely been converted.
July 11, 2004, 9:24 p.m. CST
The Body is one of the masterpieces, that's true. There are many more to be discovered in the Whedonverse, believe me. Don't think you don't have time. There is nothing else on television right now worth watching except HBO. Rent the dvds or buy them, but be prepared. This will raise the bar for you, and regular tv will never be the same. Anyways, Welcome to the 'Verse!
July 13, 2004, 11:42 a.m. CST
by Jack Parsons
The movies may or may not happen. But movies aren't the only media form that will exist in the future. Say Joss has an idea for a much, much older Buffy meeting with a still-young appearing Spike or Angel in the year 2030. Just a short story, ten minutes or so long. After all, every hero needs a tale of their end; Robin Hood, Arthur, even arguably Miller's Dark Knight. Say Joss writes the story now, films Marsters in his part of the story, then archives the clip. And in 26 years, he films Sarah, a much older and tireder Slayer, in her part. Combine the footage in whatever manner, and Joss has a present for all of us in our own old ages. And he doesn't need TV or a major film studio for the project; he can do it with a prosumer grade camcorder and a DVD burner. Why not, Joss? Surprise us once more.
July 13, 2004, 8:34 p.m. CST
maybe if the market swings back the other way to my sweet sweet scripted narrative format we could get some of this from over the bond.