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AICN COMICS! The @$$mazing Spider-Man Column!!
Stop the presses! J. Jonah Jameson here, humanitarian, award-winning editor of the Daily Bugle, and upholder of such ideals as courage, honor, and most importantly, the Truth! Everywhere I look these days; on billboards, TV commercials, magazine ads, on the sides of busses, and even on the internet, I’m seeing advertisements for SPIDER-MAN 2. While some namby-pamby Hollywood types are sitting in their fancy offices, sipping Espresso and making movies, I’ve been telling the world the real story about that masked menace all along. But do they listen to me? Nooo. They go and make that freak look like some kind of hero. They should be making a movie about ME! Not that masked menace. I’m the real hero here.
A bunch of no talent internet hacks named "The @$$holes" have decided to class up their piddly little column and asked me to host something they call…THE @$$MAZING SPIDER-COLUMN. It’s where a bunch of guys and gals who have nothing better to do than gab all day on the internet write up some comic book recommendations to seek out just in case you liked the movie. If you’re looking for a movie review, I’ll give you one:
It stinks!
The only good parts are the ones with me in it. All the rest…pure garbage!
If you want something of real quality, depth and good taste, check out the latest edition of the Daily Bugle. But until tomorrow’s edition, you might as well take a look at what these @$$$holes have to say about that no-good Spider-Man.
THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #157-159Age in comic books is a funny thing. When I quit reading X-MEN comics, Emma Frost was a good looking middle aged super-villain, sort of a Sharon Stone type, out to take over the world through the exploitation of mutants. Now, she appears to be a good looking, barely legal member of the X-MEN, sort of a Scarlett Johansen type, out to take over Cyclops.
"Oh, hello, Flash. Hello, Harry. No, Peter isn't in right now. Yes, I suppose you can come in and wait." Instead of Rosemary Harris and Alfred Molina, we'd have Demi Moore as May Parker and Ashton Kutcher as Otto Octavius. That'd be pretty cool. Aunt May and Ock's history goes back to a KING SIZE Spider-Man in which Ock, leading the original Sinister 6, kidnapped Aunt May and Betty Brant. Of course, Spidey came to the rescue, much to the disgust of Mrs. Parker who hated that ruffian but admired the refined, sophisticated Dr. Octavius ("We mustn't be prejudiced against the poor man because of his arms, dear."). Ock later boarded at the Parker's place, bringing down a rain of super-villainry on Forest Hills. Eventually, Aunt May went to work as Doc Ock's housekeeper, tending to his country estate (or villain's lair to you and me). Mobster/freak Hammerhead was out to destroy Ock by then, and Spider-Man was trying to save his aunt, who decked him (to be fair, he'd been worked over pretty well by Hammerhead) and even tried to blow him away.
Not so! Remember, Ock's arms are indestructible and radiation proof. He wrapped himself in them, hid in one of those convenient comic book exhaust ports and came off with nothing worse than, maybe, a future case of cancer. Hammerhead's body was turned intangible, making him a living ghost -- which is how nuclear blasts effect you in comics, as opposed to real life where you're made into a dead shadow. In the gorgeously paneled issue #157, Peter Parker shows up at Aunt May's place with a bucket of fried chicken, only to find Ock sipping tea on the sofa. Okay, when Aunt May is out of the room, Pete talks to Ock the way Spider-Man would - " ... six arms or otherwise, I'm gonna wring your chubby neck!" This is kind of like the scene in Tim Burton's BATMAN where Bruce Wayne confronts the Joker in Vicki Vale's apartment and we see Wayne being Batman without the costume. While Kim Basinger is considerably hotter than Aunt May, neither villain recognizes their arch-enemy. Of course, the instant the exposition is over, Hammerhead attacks. Ock skedaddles with Aunt May, hijacking a helicopter and snapping Spidey's web line, leaving him to splatter on the Long Island Expressway.
I dunno why 7-11 had better comics than comic shops, but they did! |
Scenes from the SPIDER-MAN 2 Cutting Room Floor
SPIDEY and DOC OCK duke it out above the streets of New York.
SPIDEY: Hey, how come you have mechanical arms?
OCK: What are you talking about, fool?
SPIDEY: I have organic webshooters, you should have organic arms!
OCK: Now, that would just be plain silly!
SPIDEY: Not to mention seriously creepy!
END SCENE.
SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN #108
All I know about Jean DeWolff is her death. She was a minor character in the world of Spider-Man, but her death had almost as much impact on me as Uncle Ben or Gwen Stacy’s. Her death had impact because of how meaningless it was. Gwen’s death occurred at the climax of the most pivotal confrontation between Spider-Man and the Green Goblin. Jean was dead by page three at the hands of a nut with a shotgun. And what a nut! The Sin-Eater is one of those villains that defy the standard Spidey stereotype. This isn’t some loon dressed as a scorpion; this is a guy who, at the end of each issue, blasts someone with a shotgun at point blank range. But it’s more than the grittiness of the bad guy that makes this a memorable story. What makes this story such a classic is that it illustrates just why Spider-Man is such a stand out character. Spidey is a hero driven by grief, more so than even Batman. That grief is at its highest point of focus here, because of how elusive his enemy is. Both Uncle Ben and Gwen’s killers were known and faced justice in some form relatively quickly. Here, Spider-Man’s grief isn’t given any sort of immediate release, causing it to be transformed into rage. And once that rage is released… well, the first time I read it, it scared the shit outta me. Here’s Spider-Man, (in his black costume, mind you,) dishing out a beating like I’d never seen before in a comic. Oh, sure, since then I’ve read me all kinds of Sin City, but to a ten year old, this stuff was seven kinds of vicious. But the third factor that makes the saga of Jean DeWolff’s death so memorable is the dynamic between the three costumed characters featured: Daredevil, AKA Matt Murdock, acts as both a crime fighter and a lawyer. He believes in the law with every fiber of his being, acting as a superhero only when necessary. Sin-Eater, AKA CENSORED, seeks out those who don’t fit in with his view of right and justice, and gives them both barrels of his shotgun. He wants to rid the world of sin, but his concept of what constitutes sin is skewed. In his eyes, death is the only solution for sinners. Spider-Man, AKA Peter Parker, falls in between these two extremes. He acts to protect innocent people, without regard for his own safety. He also acts without regard for the safety of criminals. The law doesn’t concern him, what does is that no one suffers the same sort of loss that he has. If some crook gets hurt in the process of stopping a crime, it’s no big deal. Now, there’s been better Spider-Man stories told before this one, and there’s been better ones told since. But this is the Spidey book I always come back to when I think of my favorite. It was the first comic that showed me just what sort of potential this medium has to offer, as well as being the first to make me trip my shit. |
JJJ: Bah! A good Spider-Man story is like a bad cigar. There’s no such thing! It wouldn’t surprise me if the Sin Eater, Daredevil, and Spider-Man were all in cahoots together. Let’s see what this next punk has to say.MARVEL SUPER HEROES: SECRET WARSThose of you who know of Spider-Man through the movie or the cartoon series His strength as a supporting character. Peter Parker is one of the most sympathetic, likeable and easy to relate to Take the audience out of omniscience and put them in front of the mask, and This is one of the allures of a shared Marvel Universe. Captain America is Spider-Man, even subtly removed from Peter Parker, is an amazing creation,
And for a character who, at that point, had largely been defined by his
MARY JANE is more than just Marvel’s making a foray into the teen girl
Peter Parker: Spider-Man is a powerful and attractive character from any |
More Scenes from the SPIDER-MAN 2 Cutting Room Floor
INT. JOHN JAMESON'S BEDROOM -- NIGHT
John and Mary Jane make out heavily. It's getting serious.
MJ: Face it, tiger, you hit the jackpot! When it comes to hip, happening scenes, old MJ is your gal! Leave those serene scenes to the teen queens and--
JOHN pushes Mary Jane away.
John: For Chrissakes, will you quit talking like Stan Lee! Maybe you should go back to dating Peter Parker!
MJ: Oh, pretty, puny Petey may be fine for the tamer true believers, but this frantic female is---
John: How about Harry Osbourne? Good looking guy, rich, you'd make a great couple! No? How about Eddie Brock? Ted Raimi? Irving Forbush?
END SCENE.
SPIDER-MAN: THE DEATH OF CAPTAIN STACY (TPB)“Tell ‘im he can shove it, Jameson! Evidence don’t mean nothing unless ya can use it! And Sambo ain’t never gonna use it!”
But this is an action story, dammit - let’s talk about the action! The first chapter opens with an imprisoned Doctor Octopus learning to mentally summon his tentacles from a great distance, a historic moment in Spider-Man comics that’s been repeated a zillion times since, but you see it here first. As a longtime fan of Doc Ock, I was pleased to see Ock played as Spider-Man’s deadliest foe in this arc. Spidey struggles just to handle the runaway arms, acknowledging that were they manipulated directly by Ock, he’d be totally overwhelmed. If you’re one of those who think of Octopus as just the tubby villain sporting Elton John’s haircut, this trade will set you straight (no pun intended). Ock’s an acknowledged killer in this story and clearly beyond Spider-Man in sheer power, bad haircut or no. Plus, he coolly refers to himself in the third person, as when he hijacks a plane and warns the police not to rush him when it lands: “Doc Ock isn’t in the mood for crowds!” Stan’s dialogue is on in this story. His Ock is at his exasperated best (no villain is better at getting pissed beyond all reckoning), his Gwen Stacy is a seductive vixen, and his little nods to life in the early ‘70s are sure to bring a grin (check out the air pollution protestors excited over a possible visit from Ralph Nader). By modern standards, the stories have their fair share of corny dialogue too, from guest-star Iceman shouting “Zowie!” to Spider-Man constantly expressing aloud thoughts that should be part of an internal monologue. Of course, it’s Stan’s dialogue, and that means that even the corny stuff is somehow endearing. At one point Peter’s getting pretty morbid in his fear of Doc Ock, and when he finally screws up the courage to face him: “After all, being a swingin’ superhero is almost like being in show biz! And like they always say – the show must go on! Altho’ I never figured out why!” Classic Stan, classic Peter Parker. The showdowns themselves are grueling, memorable action sequences. Some readers are perfectly willing to dismiss all old-school comics as “mindless slugfests,” and I’ll accept the “slugfest” descriptor, but “mindless”? Not a chance. Stan and his artists choreographed these battles with as much innovation and panache as in the best Hollywood actioneers. One sequence has Spider-Man hiding behind a chimney, and when Ock’s arms coil around to snare him, he webs the ends together, vaults off the building dragging the webbed bundle, and pulls the Ock headfirst into the chimney! Daaaaamn! Then Ock retracts his tentacles with blinding speed and pulls Spider-Man straight back into the other side of the chimney – this needs to be in the movie! Most of these stories are drawn by Gil Kane with inks by Romita Sr, and I have to admit, my knowledge of Kane has always been minimal. I thought, based on anecdotal glimpses, that maybe he was a bit overrated – an otherwise unremarkable anatomy-specialist. That was until I saw his Spider-Man work in this and the DEATH OF GWEN STACY trade. I know now that I’ve been an idiot. I was practically getting vertigo watching his rooftop action sequences, as dynamic and wild as anything McFarlane ever did, but with anatomy and general realism that’s a hundred times more convincing. In fact, the McFarlane cover and a few bonus pin-ups (covers he did for Spider-Man reprint comics) are the only artistic downside of the trade. McFarlane’s work has aged with all the grace of Keith Richards. The emotional crux of the story is, of course, the death of Gwen Stacy’s police captain father. Again, I only knew the moment from a modern context, the retelling of the scene in a page of Kurt Busiek’s MARVELS (among the cool bonus materials in the back is this very page), but it’s a powerhouse. I never knew that Captain Stacy was supposed to have figured out that Peter Parker and Spider-Man were one and the same, so I suppose I was as surprised as audiences in ’71 at the poignant moment when Peter Parker realizes this as the old man dies. What follows is a classic tragedy in the Marvel tradition. Gwen, along with everyone else in the city, mistakenly blames Spider-Man for the death of Captain Stacy. And from a guy’s perspective, it’s just that much more heartbreaking because Kane and Romita Sr. make her such a damn hot little number in those short skirts, go-go boots, and black tops. Mercy! Along the way, Stan’s tale dabbles in politics, plays up the anything-can-happen appeal of the Marvel Universe with a guest-spot from Iceman, and generally reminds us why Spider-Man is the all-time great hard luck hero. I want to try to be more critical of it, but how can I be? Simply put, this is the goods. |
JJJ: Criminy, do these @$$holes think they get paid by the word? What a bunch of jabber mouths. They talk more than that webbed wierdo. Let’s see who we have next. Hopefully, this one will be brief. Who’s up? Another one from Cormorant? Never mind.AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #231 & 232I’m going to get around to Spider-Man in a bit, but first a lament: Poor Mr. Hyde. No, not the child-stomping villain of Robert Louis Stevenson’s novel. Not even Alan Moore’s violent buggerer from the pages of THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN. I’m talking about the Marvel Universe incarnation of the character, a scientist named Calvin Zabo who obsessed over Stevenson’s book, created a formula based on Jeckyl’s, and embarked on a life of crime! My friends...they don’t make villains with cajones like that anymore! But he’s fallen on hard times of late. Here’s a bad, bad dude who, according to my old OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE, can lift/press fiddy damn tons...who fought Thor on his first outing...and who, with the Masters of Evil, beat Hercules into a coma and tortured loveable manservant Jarvis nearly to death. And yet modern writers are playing this guy as a punk. Bendis made a joke of him in DAREDEVIL with Spidey and DD dropping Hyde between a bout of male bonding. When Geoff Johns used Hyde in his first issue of AVENGERS – granted, a more serious treatment, but Hyde was still just the warm-up act villain; the equivalent of whoever Bond dispatches in a pre-credits sequence. And the latest anti-Hydite is another fine writer, one Robert Kirkman, who similarly wussifies Hyde in his pending first issue of CAPTAIN AMERICA (full preview here). Jeez, guys! Did you not read Roger Stern’s terrifying Mr. Hyde story in AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 231 and 232 like I did as a nine-year-old urchin? Ah, well maybe that’s the problem! Maybe I can help. Roger Stern, who’s sadly slipped from the industry spotlight, was described by Brian K. Vaughan recently as, “...the biggest influence on everyone writing Spidey today.” Damn straight. Stern had a special gift for making any villain intriguing, from Hyde to Will ‘O The Wisp to The Foolkiller. He never treated them as jokes or B and C-listers, even when they were; under his pen they were strictly A-listers.
Now it’s issue 232 and Hyde’s chasing Spider-Man across rooftops, hurling wrenched-up chimneys and ripping up massive 220-volt cables to whip Spider-Man with them. See, Spider-Man’s still holding onto the terrified Cobra, bouncing him around like a rag doll, and he’s barely a step ahead of death in any given panel. What really sold my nine-year-old mind on Hyde as a threat was when a chunk of thrown building crashes to the ground on the back of a cab, coming within inches of killing the cabbie. It’s one of those “New York” moments you get in SPIDER-MAN, with a touch of comedy coming from the in-shock cabby’s terrified muttering, but Romita’s rendition of the damage sure as hell sells the threat.
Hyde’s about a second away from unleashing a vengeance on Cobra he describes as “meticulous” when Spidey makes the scene (remember the Spider-tracers of old?). There’s no way I can do adequate justice to the knockdown, drag-out fight that follows, but Hyde comes across nearly as menacing as the previous issue’s foe – the Juggernaut – and his rage is palpable. Think “angry drunk” or “seven-foot-tall Joe Pesci from GOODFELLAS.” As a kid I was also amused by Hyde nearly bellowing out that Spider-Man was a “dirty son of a bitch” after a vicious sucker-punch, only to be gagged by webbing on the last syllable. Shades of Eli Wallach’s similarly truncated epithet at the end of THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY, and another example of the value of implication over literalization. In Stan Lee’s day, there was maybe an overemphasis on every new villain being the “most deadly foe” the hero had fought to date, which is kind of wearying after a while. But Stern was part of a generation of creators who realized you didn’t have to go quite that far...nor go the opposite direction and play the more outrageous villains as jokes or as filler plot devices. He played ‘em real - never more powerful than they were - but always operating at some credible threat level. And he used their backstories to bolster their desperation, built up circumstances around them that amped their menace. A generically rampaging Hyde is a bore, but the revenge-bent sadist Stern wrote was as memorable a villain as the best of ‘em. Next-gen writers, please take note. Next-gen readers, join me in hoping that Marvel one day collects Stern’s phenomenal run. |
Even More Scenes from the SPIDER-MAN 2 Cutting Room Floor
INT. DAILY BUGLE -- DAY
Jonah paces, trailing cigar smoke.
Jonah: I hate that wall crawling freak! He's making a mockery of this city--
Robbie: I think you hate him because you just don't understand him. You're not smart enough! You don't get him!
Jonah: What? You're fi--
Betty: I think you're jealous! You'd like to be a superhero yourself but you just can't make it.
Ned: Yeah. Jonah's a frustrated superhero. He's not good enough to make it fighting crime so he has to put down those who are!
Jonah: No! That's not...you're all fired! All of you!
Peter: What's everybody talking about?
Brock: Jonah being gay for Spider-Man.
END SCENE.
ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN
ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN is a great comic book. Sure, it's often a flat-out blast: the action sequences really work, and for my money, Spidey's patter has never been more funny or charming. But perhaps most importantly, at its core, the emotions of the book are actually felt. Week in, week out, I find myself sharing the angst or fear or joy of a drawing of a teenager in a spider suit. I don't get this kind of connection in the other Spider-Man titles; in fact, I don't get this from most of the comic books I read, at least not as consistently as I do with USM.
In ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN, the Green Goblin's mission has been less to defeat Spider-Man than it was to corrupt and control him. In fact, in USM #23, in one of the most chilling villain speeches in recent memory, Osborne quietly lays out his agenda, and then, smiling, warns Peter of the consequences of any refusal to cooperate: Well, first I will torture and possibly murder your little auntie...I'll probably do it right in front of you. Or maybe I'll just destroy your little girlfriend. Mary Jane, right? Then I might delight myself in beating of you to the edge of death. Not to death -- just to the edge of death. I will let you try and heal. I will watch you struggle through broken bones and the severed nerves and tissues. And most probably, you will heal. And then just as you begin to feel yourself becoming human again...I will beat you to death.
ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN #25, actually begins twenty minutes before the end of the previous issue. We see Norman Osborne inject himself with the Goblin juice and Goblin-out. Soon after the injection, Osborne begins to hear voices, voices that begin to manifest as little imps. These imps continue to talk to the Goblin as he meets up with Spider-Man, and they fall into the same conversation from USM #24.
S'good stuff. If you tuned out on ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN early, maybe you should go back and give some of the TPB's another shot. It may not be considered "classic" Spider storytelling, at least not yet; but it is great Spidey storytelling. And really, that's classic enough. |
JJJ: Classic storytelling? In a comic book about Spider-Man? I’ve read Classifieds that had more punch to it. You want classic works of literature, check out my editorials: SPIDER-MAN – HERO OR MENACE? Or WEBSLINGER TERRORIZES CITY or THE SECRET SPIDER-MAN 2/LYME DISEASE CONNECTION. Now that’s what I call quality journalism. I’ll bet that Spider-Man put them up to this. That’s it! Robbie, get in here! I have tomorrow’s headline…SPIDER-MAN TAKES OVER AICN @$$HOLES COLUMN! Run it, print it, get Parker in here with those photos!
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All these books are great. Roll on Spidey 2! First?
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I too can remember the days when Mr. Hyde was a threat. One of my fave issues as a kid was The Absorbing Man's first appearance in Spidey and it was an all-out brawl at the airport that truly tested Spidey's strength and wits, especially when old friend Flash shows up to get caught in the mix. And the last time Titania was used effectively was back in the Cosmic Spiderman storyline where Doc Doom, in accordance with 'The Acts of Vengeance' started up by Loki in disguise, drawed upon Titania's fear of losing to Spidey (back in the Secret Wars) and, with the help of a nifty lil invention, turned it into unconquerable rage. Thus resulting in Spidey getting the living crap beaten out of him only surviving because of those cosmic Captain Universe powers.....and at no point did the absorbing man have magic frikkin' powers....
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..cos it rocks too!
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Ironically, Mark Millar's PG-13 take on Spider-Man may be the least mature take of them all, with its emphasis on bloody violence, sexual humor, merciless killings from the likes of Electro and Vulture, and as of the latest issue previewed, torture scenes! Wheee! Yes, Millar has SOOOO captured what Spider-Man is about! Here's hoping he keeps the momentum going and has Kraven return from the dead to rape Aunt May!
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Plus, he made the X-men look like losers. He is an awesome superhero, and he does work extremely well as a supporting character in a big huge battle. Another example of this is The Infinity Gauntlet, where he seems bewildered at whats going on, rather than afraid. This was a really good column. Well done. PS. Classic Spidey > Ultimate Spidey.
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What would AICN talkbacks be without the ritual insulting of the site's hosts. Traditions are so hard to break these days.
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JJJ should know better. And Millar's Spider-Man rocks, btw. sk
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Okay, so you like the MARVEL KNIGHTS SPIDER-MAN. Misguided, but it's your call. Question: did you read the online preview for the latest issue? If so, putting aside all the stuff we'd likely disagree on about what's fitting for a Spidey comic...didn't you think Robbie was ridiculously out of character at the end? Dude was all but enthused (in dialogue, though it wasn't reflected in the art) over peddling sleazy tabloid crap. Horribly out of character for the guy who's always been the conscience of the Bugle, as was his calling JJJ "chief". Is this series out-of-continuity or did I miss the storyline where one of Stan Lee's best supporting characters became a jagoff?
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"Oh, that nice Doctor Octavius. Such a pity he has trouble with his arms."
I much prefer this to Aunt May, the cell-phone crusader. -
Jun 29, 2004 9:59:24 AM CDT
Um...Corm? You better start a list of guys who like M.K. SPIDER
by spyguy
I think it might be wise to step back from MARVEL KNIGHTS SPIDER-MAN and take a big, deep breath. Heck, go ahead and kick back with some chocolate chip cookies and watch LADY SNOWBLOOD or some Adult Swim for a while. Okay, back yet? Good. Now try to keep an open mind on this one...MARVEL KNIGHTS SPIDER-MAN is actually pretty okay. No, really! Is it the best Spidey comic out right now? Possibly, depending on if Bendis manages to provide a plot point on ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN, or if Straczynski is writing an anticlimactic ending in AMAZING SPIDER-MAN. Mark Millar, for all his deliberate shock value, effectively uses the "Oh, crap" factor that is so intrinsic to the character of Peter Parker. Namely, Peter's constant fear of his Spider-Man identity endangering those he cares most about. As for the villains, well, when was the last time someone wrote Electro as a dangerous threat? The dude has the mastery of electricity and he's been relegated to B-level status for years. And you don't think the Vulture and Electro could be pervs? An old guy in a skin-tight bird costume and a guy whose mask stands up as a result of static electricity -- both of whom are Stryker's Island prison mainstays? Whatever, bro...
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i think MK Spidey is FAR better and ult.Spidey
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I avoid online previews of and spoilers for books I know I'm going to buy, so I stopped reading your post partway through. But tell you what, get back to me when it actually comes out (should be soon, but it doesn't seem to be on the next couple of weeks ship lists) and I'll let you know what I think. sk
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Thanks for including those issues in this list, Buzz. They were really great, and the absurd image of Peter and Doc Ock sharing a bucket of KFC always stuck with me. I got the first issue in that arc as a Marvel Tales on a family trip in 1981(0?, 2?) and the cliffhanger ending of Spidey falling from the helicopter went unresolved for me for for over 20 years, until I finally bought the original water-damaged issues from a 50 cent bin at a convention. Turns out, Spidey gets out of that jam just fine. Whew. Now I can get on with my life. Incidentally, I cut out the subscription form from that Marvel Tales and got a subscription to Marvel Two-In-One, because I figured I was getting twice the action for my money. Then MTIO got cancelled and replaced with The Thing, which equalled ZERO action for my money.
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Check out the first pic of JJJ on this page and the ad for "Napolean Dynamite." Is it just me or are they wearing the same suit?
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Add a couple hundred pounds to J. Jonah Jameson, replace all mention of Spider-Man with George Bush and you have a perfect clone of Michael Moore!!
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In the Daredevil run before Kevin Smith, Mr. Hyde came across as a serial killer, rapist and I think there was the intimation that he also ate human flesh. Daredevil found this out while Matt Murdock was trying to get Hyde off on a trumped up charge (why Hyde wasn't locked away just for breathing, I don't know). The kicker was that at the end of the issue, Hyde is seen menacing a young couple - again, I think there was a hint that he was going to rape and kill then both -when Daredevil comes along and given him a "Get out of Hell's Kitchen or I'll make sure you go to jail" threat and let's Hyde go on his way. I never understood the logic of that. But I would love to see that depraved Hyde back and wouldn't shed a tear if he was killed this time around.
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I still have that old original Secret Wars series where spider man beats up Titania (who got her powers in that series) and where he gets his black costume. Plus the arrival of "Spider Girl".
My dad came to me one day as a kid and said, "Hey boy, did you hear Spiderman has a new costume?" I said, "Sure thing pops (or something similar) I've got the issue where he gets it right here."
"What? Lemme see that!" *Readread*
"I'm gonna hold on to this for you boy, it'll be worth money someday!"
So, luckily, I'd read it so much I had it memorized. But it's still at my dad's house, vacuum-sealed in a box somehwere. -
I didn't get into Spider-Man as a kid so much so I don't know much Roger Stern. Did he do the Juggernaut/Madame Web arc? Or the one where Hydro Man and Sandman crash into each other and become one mudman? Or the one where Spidey grows 4 extra arms? I always liked those. Is there a forthcoming "Marvel Legends: Stern" book?
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I am supremely happy that this entire column went without a single mention of the abortion that was the Todd McFarlane-written SPIDER-MAN series. That may have been the worst written comic, and while I think you @$$holes are smart enough not to like it, I think it's best not remembered at all . . . left forgotten in the dustbin of comics history. There are some other storylines that bear mentioning (and I'm sure somebody can fill you in on the issue numbers): Anything from the Amazing Spider-Man run covering the Hobgoblin identity mystery is great, particularly when accompanied by Romita Jr. or Ron Frenz artwork; the two-parter where Peter actually proposed to MJ (the second time); and Kraven's last hunt. Got my tickets for tonight's midnight showing.
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According to the Grand Comics Database (comics.org, for the uninitated) Stern wrote Spidey from (at least) #204 through #252. Several issues in there don't have a credited writer, but I'll assume it's Stern. I never gave it much thought, but he's the Spider-Man writer I grew up with and told some really classic stories in his run, Madame Web/Juggernaut, the intro and continuing mystery of the Hobgoblin, the intro of the new costume. And I think there was a Hydro-Man story in there somewhere. Will have to get out the old box this week and revisit those stories. Lots of fun.
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...BEST OVERALL: an INCREDIBLE HULK one shot issue written by Peter David with art by Sam Kieth (I thought it was Dale Keown, but Ambush Bug reminded me it was Kieth -- that great, creepy, cartoony yet powerful style!). Banner hops a freight train to find Hyde on board. Hyde mocks him because Banner's alter-ego isn't even evil! Banner turns to Gray Hulk and the fight is on! BEST VISUAL: Gene Colan's version of Hyde from numerous, early issues of DAREDEVIL. Honorable mention: Hyde in a Mark Gruenwald issue of CAPTAIN AMERICA where Iron Man, carrying out the Armor War, has disable all of the Guardsmen in the Vault and a shitload of super-villains escape. It's up to Captain America, defrocked into a black costume and plain shield as The Captain, along with the Falcon, Diamondback, Nomad and D-Man to stop them. Hyde is among the escapees.
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And apologies for not throwing a spoiler warning in there. I'm usually a stickler for avoiding spoilers or at least announcing 'em when I'm about to blab, but I was cranky over Millar's take on Spider-Man last night and...well...I thought only of *myself*. What would Spidey think? Anyway, consider the discussion "to be continued."
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If that
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Hi...I love hearing opinions on people's favorites SPIDER-MAN comics. I would like to touch on a few comics made on the article and the board in three replies starting with McFarlane. I started collecting back on the early 80s (actually 1982) and was right in the middle of "McFar-Mania" in the late 80s and early 90s. Back then, EVERYONE thought he was the best artist in the business but his legacy seems to be lacking. He was an original in terms of layout, spider-webs, and may or may not be the first to do the "out-of-proportion" bodies (that is an ongoing debate). I think McFarlane's biggest gift in terms of comic art is/was layouts and not neccesarily the actual drawings. I personally look back at those issues in Amazing and especially "Spider-man" and wonder what all the hype was about. Like all the great, famous, and "icon" artists, hype and shock value is something they never had. McFarlane never drew great fight scences because there was about 4 frames per page and that might be why he has lost his legacy to many fans. The greats like Ditto, Kirby, Romita, Bascema (sp?), and others were great because they told a great, visual fight. Just my opinion. DN
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Knights fans, I *know* there're a lot of ya out there - I just happen to think Millar is betraying Spider-Man as Judas betrayed our Lord, Jesus Christ. What? WHAT?! ***** Moving on. If the argument is simply that MK SPIDER-MAN is the best of the *current* Spider-Man books, that doesn't hold much sway with me because really, none of 'em impress me much. JMS started strong but petered out a year or two ago on AMAZING. Jenkins is hit-and-miss and a little too schmaltzy on SPECTACULAR (he recently added the "tragic childhood" motif to Doc Ock, to which I can only respond: "Fuck that!"). As for Bendis on ULTIMATE...actually, I gotta give him the nod. I stopped buying ULTIMATE SPIDEY because I realized it would never really be *my* Spider-Man and because Bendis has some bad habits that will never be corrected, but it's a pretty damn good book judged on its own merits. I still read friends' copies to keep up on it and I can absolutely see its appeal. What's too bad is that while none of the regular Spider-Man books are up my alley, they've all been gifted with some terrific artists. What a waste! **** Spyguy, regarding Electro becoming a serious threat again, my deal is that I think it's cheap to accomplish this by just upping the body count. That's lowest-common-denominator Hollywood tradition and one of the very reasons why I shined the spotlight on Roger Stern's Mr. Hyde stories. The Hyde two-parter is a textbook example of amping the threat level of a B-lister without lazily turning him into a killer. And most of Spider-Man's villains *aren't* killers. They tend to be larger-than-life thieves or power-hungry madmen, but they're most certainly not capricious murderers (Ock, Goblin, and Venom being the exceptions, not the rule). And hell, Electro's smart enough to know that getting busted on a murder charge is a shitload worse than getting busted for robbery, extortion, property damage, and all the usual fun stuff he engages in. As for Vulture and Electro being pervs because they wear freaky costumes...gimme a break, man. The costumes are genre trappings, and if you've got to read sexual motifs into 'em you probably should move beyond superheroes (where, y'know, ALL characters wear tight-fitting costumes). Remember, only in *Chuck Austen's* pending superhero book does a costume automatically make one a perv (behold, if you dare: http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14505 ) **** Now, just to show that deep down we're all human beings and we needn't strangle each other (except maybe a little), I'll give you this: Millar's writing isn't all trash. I hate his shock value style, but he can write some strong scenes between the shock stuff. Sometimes he gets Peter right. I like his intention to make old-school villains threats again - especially oddballs like The Vulture, and it's only the execution that bothers me. And he's got a good (if tit-obsessed) artist. There! We're friends again, all you Spider-Man Judases!
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Jun 29, 2004 6:21:15 PM CDT
Mac Farlane or McFarlane Was A Much Better Artist & Writer Than
by buzz maverik
The turn off to his work is that it was soooo overrated and overhyped at the time and editorial at Marvel, after first ordering him to knock off the big Spidey eyes and tangled webs, then tried to force everyone to draw that way. His first SPIDER-MAN arc blew because he really didn't try to write. It was just Spidey fighting the Lizard. A guy who was primarily an artist simply drawing. I liked his stuff and I liked a lot of SPAWN. The early Image guys were either so obnoxious or came off that way that their work took a lot of flack. Granted, not one of them could actually write, but some COULD draw and tell stories exceptionally well. Even Liefield was better than everyone says.
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Jun 29, 2004 6:30:06 PM CDT
Dwam0, I'd like to cast my vote *against* Hyde as rapist/killer.
by dave_f
Outside of Alan Moore's LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN, of course! That version of Hyde can bugger away to his heart's content! But as a *general rule*, I don't want that level of vile realism creeping into my superhero titles unless the word "WildStorm" appears somewhere on the cover. There's a fine line between spicing up an adventure story with a little "grim 'n' gritty" realism and laying it on so thick that superheroes morose and downbeat. In the '80s, I think creators showed a special talent for the former. Now I see mostly the latter.
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Thank you for mentioning the man who made me a Spidey comic lover. I came relatively late to Spider-Man in comics. I first was aware of him on TV (Bring on a DVD set of SPIDER-MAN & HIS AMAZING FRIENDS NOW! ! ! !) and it wasn't in fact till I heard his costume changed that I started buying AMAZING full time. Man was it worth it, here was everything that made Spidey cool and done in a way that made me totally believe these were real people. Sure the suit changed back soon but I didn't care. THE PEOPLE in the comic were what kept me coming back month after month. In addition to Hyde, here are a few other highlights of Stern's run on AMS: 1. the creation of the HOBGOBLIN 2. the full family history of Mary Jane Watson (something everyone seems to have forgotten) 3.MJ revealing she knows Peter is Spidey. 4. Harry and Liz having their son. 5. and a very special story where Spidey visits his biggest fan, a boy dying of lukemina. I know I haven't mentioned a lot of battles or villians. Just in case I do count SECRET WARS #8 as being the comic that showed me how cool Spidey was. He takes of Titania, without his webshooters, and defeats her (hell he throws her out of a building while mocking her about being a typical bully). That's when I learned how cool Spidey is, Roger Stern showed me something different. He showed me something other Spider writers have been trying to achieve, how cool Peter Parker can be.
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That I'd also mention a good Spider-Man graphic novel that seems to have been forgotten today. SPIDER-MAN:PARRAEll Lives is a split screen like book that tells the full story of Peter and MJ's relationship from the begining. This book has no flashy art or wordplay, it just tells a very human story of two people more alike than they realize. For fans this story features several recreations of classic moments from the Lee, Ditko, and Romita days. For those who wonder why Mary Jane is so special, this book peels back the party girl exterior and reveals the person within. This also shows us (in a scene still unchallenged in the regular continuity) just exactly when MJ learned of Peter's dual identity. Hell there is even a fight with Doc Ock thrown in. But like I said LIVES isn't about fights, it's a story that shows why Peter and MJ are meant to be together, why at the end of the day she's the one who knows him best. This book defined how I see these two characters ever since. It's a story I think more people (Spiderwriters and readers) should check out.
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That is all.
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I'm a fan of all the talent amassed on the Spider-Man titles right now...I just don't think any of them have put it all together. It happens. Spidey works best for me as a love letter to New York City and its inhabitants, so much so that, like the Velvet Underground & Talking Heads, I never really *got* Spider-Man until I moved to New York. JMS gets this, although he doesn't always show it. The first movie got this, but was a little ham-handed in their execution of it (in a sweet way). It's the blueprint Stan Lee set down, and for that reason, and because Ditko kicks ass, the original creative team may actually be my favorite.
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Mcfarlane is a good artist though i was not a fan of his writing.I agree that he and others were overhyped at the time.The Spiderman he wrote/drew and Spawn= franchise comics rather than titles with their own voice.Team him up with good writers and get him drawing again.BTW is N.Gaiman still annoyed with him?.Roger Stern writes good stuff in general and I enjoyed his Starman DC run.
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Hm. I personally don't understand why McFarlane is rated as high as he is or people would want him back on a Spider-book, I couldn't stand the art as a kid and I still don't like the art now. It'd sell, but I just don't get what's the big deal. Anyway. I'm liking Marvel Knights Spider-man. I think issue 2 was a big mis-step but after reading issue 4 I'm inclined to say it's probably my favorite Spider-man book. MK Spidey, Amazing, Ultimate, Spectacular, in that order. Lately the Ultimate book feels like it's dragging unecessarily. One thing I hate though, is the blatant disregard for Spidey's identity in all the books. When some random Airplane pilot knows Spider-man is Peter Parker for no good reason, like in the Ultimate Spidey Hollywood arc, it's just stupid. And I really don't get this hate for Millar, but I guess even Assholes need villians. Heh.
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I wasn't saying that I would like to see that kind of Hyde in Daredevil, I was saying that I REMEMBER a gruesome Hyde in Daredevil. Murdock had to get Hyde off on a murder that someone else did. The kicker was that Daredevil, becasue of his powers, knew Hyde was innocent but Matt has to prove it. And Matt was thinking about throwing the case the more he got to know Hyde in the courtroom. I remember finding Hyde to be such a vile person and then Daredevil just LETS HIM GO with a warning at the end of the issue when Hyde is menacing this couple in a dark alley.
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Jun 30, 2004 9:44:12 AM CDT
The idea that Spidey's identity is a not-very-well-kept secret i
by rev_skarekroe
It's when they start doing it in the regular Marvel U. that I have a problem with it. sk
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http://www.jaypinkerton.com/blog/archives/000831.html
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Everyone always said he was so funny and witty... "Really?" I said. That was until I read the recent Blockbuster arc in Ultimate X-Men, where Spiderman was actually funny. Not just funny, hysterical. Maybe I've just been reading the wrong Spidey issues, or maybe Blockbuster was the exception that proves the rule.
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That's my favorite! Mike Zeck was the ideal artist for Black Spidey (and Cap A)and both Kraven and Vermin were very well characterized. I also liked a ridiculous issue of Peter Parker when he and Black Cat fought "The Spot" who could make spots for teleporting all or part of his body. 1 seriously excellent story, 1 wacky fun.
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You'll often find Spidey funnier in books where he's a supporting character (as I *cough cough* mention above). My favorite Spideycomedy moment is a Marx brothers-esque scene where a bunch of thugs are peeking around a corner, looking to mug Robbie Robertson or something. And they're talking about how they can do it. "I think we should hit him now." "I think we should wait 'til he gets to his car." Etc. *** The next panel is an exact recreation only with Spider-Man's head at the top, saying "I think we should just let him go." Or something like that. Well, maybe you had to be there, but it had me rolling. *** Other favorite funny Spidey moments: Acting shocked that HEROES REBORN She-Hulk doesn't remember the time they spent together as lovers in the HEROES RETURN mini. And reading Kingpin the list of fat jokes in ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN.
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Are you thinking of WHAT IF THE X-MEN HAD LOST INFERNO? http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/95078701518.6.GIF Not vampires, but rather the more 'feral' Marvel Characters succumbed to demonic possession. And yeah, the image of Wolverine skewering Spider-Man from behind, the claws protruding through the chest and stretching out the costume, was pretty horrid! The most disturbing for me though was the off-panel neck snapping of Johnny Storm, who extinguished himself after going Nova to protect Doc Strange and Rachel Summers.
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WHAT IF SPIDER-MAN HAD BEEN POSSESSED BY THE ALIEN COSTUME. Apparently it would have sucked him dry, making him an old man, before moving on to bigger and badder hosts (like Thor). Lots of real emotion in this issue, including a great eulogy of Parker by Reed Richards, and a kick-ass ending with an awesome surprise guest star. But man, Peter really takes it in the pants in these WHAT IF... comics though.
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Jun 30, 2004 10:12:15 PM CDT
I just saw Spiderman 2. What a cheesy trashy film. The action ma
by theginger twit
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IIRC a Peter David "Spectacular Spider-Man # 118." Has one of my favorite Spidey quotes, IIRC: "Beaten up by a kid... Now I'm going to have to slaughter a troop of Campfire Girls to save some face..." and a great story to boot.
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