June 22, 2004, 4:40 p.m. CST
BRING IT FUKKIN ON!
June 22, 2004, 4:40 p.m. CST
Though I more often than not agree with what Moore is fighting for, I really really hate how he often presents it. However, I make it a point to see a film before I attack it in any way, so I'll be there.
June 22, 2004, 4:41 p.m. CST
by AICN fanboy dork
People who have differing opinions than Michael Moore are people who he'll dismiss faster than a salad. This is a guy who expresses disbelief when someone who shares his politics (Roger Ebert) points out the factual mistakes of Bowling For Columbine, who calls James Woods a bad person because Woods thought Moore's Oscar tirade was disrespectful. Anyone who isn't anti-Bush is basically just part of his large shit list. He doesn't respect the opposide side of where he stands (and sinks if he stands there for too long), so saying he wants people to voice anger at him as long as they care about something is like saying AICN talkbackers are well-behaved, well-adjusted individuals.
June 22, 2004, 4:43 p.m. CST
June 22, 2004, 4:47 p.m. CST
This will be one damn interesting election. I live in Dallas and whether you know it or not it's quite the republican stronghold. Even so i've seen a lot more Kerry bumper stickers and signs than I ever saw for Gore. Bush may just have to work for the vote in Texas. I know that the closer to the Gulf of Mexico you get the more support for Bush wanes. Like I said, the numbers should be very intesresting.
June 22, 2004, 4:48 p.m. CST
Like the title says. I didn't realize that this website was taking promoting "political" propaganda. Shame on you Harry. Keep politics of of your site.
June 22, 2004, 4:49 p.m. CST
June 22, 2004, 4:58 p.m. CST
I'm not sure how you can keep political views out of a review of this film. Harry doesn't normally shove it down our throats. I supported the war (and Bush), from the UK it looked as though he was giving the UN a kick up the backside. But if this film points out the errors of policy since the war, an possibly before, then that is good. For example, the recent 'memo' news makes it look like this administration (or at least Cheney and Rumsfeld) considered the use of torture, or wanted to know how far they could take it. That is plain wrong. With a 'ticking bomb', maybe. But where do you draw the line ? My point is, you don't have to agree / disagree with everything Moore says. If only he would acknowledge another viewpoint. His valid points are overshadowed by his blind hatred of Bush. Both Clintons and Kerry agree with some of Bush's actions - but does he go after them with such venom ?
June 22, 2004, 5 p.m. CST
Where's the review of "1 Night In Paris"? sk
June 22, 2004, 5:08 p.m. CST
I love it, the conservatives are already whining about how Harry is a liberal and should keep his views to himself on this sit because it's primarily "entertainment" oriented. Ahh, the old "shut up and sing" argument. Conservatives like to use this everytime someone famous that people listen to speaks out against their silly causes like stripping gays of their rights and bombing random countries. Ofcourse, if Arnold Shwarzenegger, an actor with absolutely NO PUBLIC SERVICE RESUME, wants to run for govenor of the largest, most populous state in the country, bring it on! Reagan, a god to Republicans, anti-christ to the rest of the country and world, was, an actor and celebrity. When will these little boys grow up!?!
June 22, 2004, 5:17 p.m. CST
Thought Roger and Me was a really interesting film. Bowling for Columbine was just a bunch of grandstanding though. Check out Bowlingfortruth.com to see the manipulation Moore uses to present "his" vision - not necessarily the truth. 911 is the same bullshit - his agenda gets in the way of actually presenting the truth. What a shame, because the guy has talent.
June 22, 2004, 5:20 p.m. CST
Michael Moore has no respect for the truth or the political process, and is a walking soundbite. Here is a nice article (in a liberal on-line magazine) by a fellow liberal documentarian. It pretty clearly describes how F-9/11 is grossly internally inconsistent, and extremely loose with the facts. Please note the author of the article is also very anti-Bush. Of course, none of that changes the fact that its still very effective "propoganda" and bashes someone Harry despises. So who cares if its sways the political process? If a republic put out such baseless crap, Harry would be apoplectic. http://politics.slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
June 22, 2004, 5:28 p.m. CST
Moore is going too easy on these Anunnaki bastards. Look at the history of the Bush family, the downward moral spiral of American foreign policy, the ties to big business, the blatant lies, etc. Anyone who supports this kind of elitist, tyrannical imperialism is either ignorant or evil ... or both. wake up.
June 22, 2004, 5:30 p.m. CST
I'll miss them when this movie is old news. Anyway, wether you like Moore or hate him, at least he gets a response, at least he gets people interested in politics and debate, and thats a good thing.
June 22, 2004, 5:34 p.m. CST
One day I'll actually say something interesting and worth reading on this site, curse you damned magical trousers, you plauge always with your incesent buffalo immitations! Sorry for wasting your time everyone, go back to your political debate.
June 22, 2004, 5:35 p.m. CST
Fog of War was an amazing documentary that made a powerful political statement while remaining true to the genre. Its possible to do, it just takes a great filmmaker. I enjoyed Roger and Me and Bowling...but unfortunatley Moore has lost his credibility and thats a shame. The real shame is that Fog of War didn't get the attention it deserved.
June 22, 2004, 5:35 p.m. CST
I can't stand morons like Michael Moore and his equally annoying nemesis Rush Limbaugh. Their one sided arguments never stand up in the face of intelligent debate, so neither of them submit themselves to debate. Both of them end up insignificant, preaching only to their own choir and galvanizing the opposition to support their candidate even more. As a conservative myself, I think that liberals have a right to disagree with the way Republicans want to run the country, but rampages like these which claim Bush is a self-centered asshole who doesn't care about his country are unfair and unethical. Moore's and Limbaugh's claims that Bush and Kerry, respectively, are useless individuals unable to run the country are silly when compared to the long and valuable service both have provided to this country.
June 22, 2004, 5:44 p.m. CST
Hi Harry (and all others), I am German, and I have been to filmschool. We analyzed some of the propaganda clips that were done in other countries, just like in the US. The manipulative power of montage is just so incredible, it's unbelievable. On the other hand, there has been the same manipulation by the Nazis, and I have to say that we Germans needed You Allieds, needed you bitterly, to bomb us free from the Nazis. They were our people, of course, but brainwashed zombies in most cases (not the common soldier, he was just subjugated to a complex system of peer pressure), and knew what they were playing at. Thank you America, England, France and Russia! (I'm just 31 and never lived through it, but my parents were both born in the war) So, after this little patriotic tirade, let me say I can't wait for Farenheit 911 to open! I think it will show how the Bush administration uses the same kind of propaganda machinery as the Nazis did. And people will not like it. I am sure of it: This blatant idiot is history! Greetings from Munich in Bavaria, Stan The Man!
June 22, 2004, 5:47 p.m. CST
by Doug Exeter
Remember when going to the movies was fun, and you didn't have to put up with thinly disguised political agendas and propaganda? I'll be glad when this movie is done and time marches on. I like Michael Moore, but I also like George W. Bush. He's my President, and if John Kerry becomes my President in November, then I will support him as best I can. America needs to think long and hard about the prevailing undercurrent of cynicism that is so prevalent at the moment. Jesus said that a house that's divided against itself cannot stand. Don't misunderstand me, Jesus isn't going to come and nuke America, because I believe that He wants the House to stand. But it's up to us to make it stand. There are those who hate Bush (Michael Moore, George Soros, etc.) and those who adore Bush. It's okay not to agree with someone, but it's not okay to disrespect them. Respect is something that can be earned and that we can choose to give even when it isn't earned.
June 22, 2004, 5:47 p.m. CST
by Aragorn II
You compare this film to WHY WE FIGHT, which was a blatant lie to the American people on many important levels, and then you endorse it? Is the fact that you believe we are being lied to by our government enough of a justification for supporting our being lied to by someone else in retaliation? Weak, Harry. Michael Moore is doing nothing more than taking advantage of the fact that most Americans are naive enough to believe that a film labeled as a 'documentary' is based primarily in fact. To quote the director himself, "Shame on you". Bush may not be the greatest president ever, but this film does nothing but lower the level of political discourse in our country. It certainly won't create an intelligent dialogue based on the facts. It's a shame we can't discuss the issues of the day without distorting them and making them into intentionally hurtful weapons. It just sucks.
June 22, 2004, 5:49 p.m. CST
by Stanley Spector
June 22, 2004, 5:51 p.m. CST
the SKULL of native American Cheif Gerrionemo and took it back to The skull and Bones tomb at that one university. (The name escapes me for a monent) Now i don't know about you people, But grave robbing? These are the values of the Bush Family? If this is the tip of the ice berg we can see above water, how big is it below water? What's W hideing from us? OF course all what would go a lond way to makeing me more trusting is if the Bush twins posed for playboy or penthouse when they turned 18! Then we'd know 2 Bush's who have nothing to hide. Becides Bush twins are like the Hilton sisters! They are just WANTING THE ATTENTION!!!
June 22, 2004, 5:51 p.m. CST
Just like he fawns over that other fat-ass Guillermo DelToro. I don't buy Harry's propaganda is necessary line of thought, because it means good propoganda will be countered by bad propoganda, and so on, until the truth is rendered irrelevant.
June 22, 2004, 5:52 p.m. CST
It's technically impossible for propaganda to be the truth, I'm pretty sure. What you mean to say, Harry, is that pieces of the story fall away as history progresses and all that the world at large remembers IS the propaganda. That doesn't make it the truth. All things considered, I would like to see Bush out of office, and I guess the only way to fight fire (censorship in the news) is with fire (Fahrenheit 9/11), so to speak, but let's not make any bones about the integrity of this movie. I'm not going to carry the conversation much further than this, because I'm pretty sure you're going to have to weather your own browbeating of sorts but, needless to say, I think you made your mind up about this film before you went to see it.
June 22, 2004, 5:57 p.m. CST
by Triumph poops!
And I say that as a Californian resident. In fact, a recent LA TIMES poll (in fact, literally EVERY California newspaper poll) finds that for as truly horrible and down in the gutter as Gray Davis' numbers were when he was recalled, Arnold is the direct OPPOSITE and flying high in positive numbers. He's riding an amazing wave of approval and for the first time in more than a decade, the overwhelming majority of Californians feel the state is heading in a better direction. Fucking Arnold rules, so when idiots like you point out that he had "no experience" just remember there are PLENTY of voters who actually find that a PLUS in a candidate, since they feel then that they're getting a free thinker (and in the case of Arnold, a truly self-made man) rather than a career politician who sells-out at the first offer. Amend the Constitution! Arnie for Prez!
June 22, 2004, 5:58 p.m. CST
Too bad none of Moore's "facts" are correct (atleast most of them). I think I'll catch this movie on DVD, no need to waste my money seeing it in theaters.
June 22, 2004, 5:58 p.m. CST
June 22, 2004, 6:08 p.m. CST
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/ Money quotes: (quote)With Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11, however, an entirely new note has been struck. Here we glimpse a possible fusion between the turgid routines of MoveOn.org and the filmic standards, if not exactly the filmic skills, of Sergei Eisenstein or Leni Riefenstahl. To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability. To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery.(endquote) ***************(quote)In late 2002, almost a year after the al-Qaida assault on American society, I had an onstage debate with Michael Moore at the Telluride Film Festival. In the course of this exchange, he stated his view that Osama Bin Laden should be considered innocent until proven guilty. This was, he said, the American way. The intervention in Afghanistan, he maintained, had been at least to that extent unjustified. Something
June 22, 2004, 6:09 p.m. CST
Maybe I am from a different plant and have been watching television that is the complete opposite of what every one else has been seeing. Because in the world I live in when I turn on the news it is covered, wall to wall, with stories of dead soliders, with interviews of burned American fighters and with horribly mauled Iraq women and children. The news I see does nothing but show the terrible cost of this war and the news I watch completely ignores anything good that Americans have done over in Iraq. Thank God then that I have friends in the Marines and Army who have been over in Iraq and can tell me the truth and not give me the distorted lies that come from NBC, CBS, ABC, CNBC, MSNBC, CNN, AIR AMERICA, and of course, Micheal Moore. What those who have served in this war say is that things are bad, that is true, but what we really never hear is about schools being built by soliders, parks being made by Marine, and the thousands of Iraq citizens who love us. Sure some hate us, hate us a lot, but where are the stories of the others who don't...gosh I never see that on television. Harry also asks why we are fighting this war, well I think we fight it because though we may fail sometimes on the whole America is trying to do right by the people of Iraq instead of dominating them, killing them, and taking away their freedom like good old Saddam deliberately did.
June 22, 2004, 6:16 p.m. CST
by Sheik Yerbouti
In my opinion this election year is going to go down as another low turn out snoozefest and who ever wins will be the turd who floated to the top. The problem? Well there are Bush haters, no doubt there, and there are KoolAid drinking Bush supporters, Moore and Harry included, but are there really that many Kerry supporters, people who would follow this guy no matter who he was running against. I don't think so, this is not unlike the election in 96 when Dole hardly electrified the right, but conservatives hated Clinton so much they were ready to vote for Bobby just to see Billary take a hike. Of course that didn't seem to work, because you have those in the middle, who when there doesn't seem to be a clear cut winner, goes with what they know. The only slight advantage I give to Kerry's chances over how Dole fared, is that Bush bashing seems to be at an all time high, compared with just the Limbaugh onslaught against Clinton in 96. The reason I suspect is that this time when there is a President who is divisive you have a media who's natural bias leads them to want to show more about how much people hate Bush and why they hate him. I am not playing the Liberal Media conspiracy card, which equals the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy that Billary was so worried about, but I am saying that there is quite a bit more media coverage regarding anti-Bush than perhaps during the anti-Clinton years.
June 22, 2004, 6:18 p.m. CST
Alright, now I feel like a whore... But still I don't know why there's so many people that hate Moore. He`s a brillant director that can be both informative and sarcastic at the same time, and he's not scared to blast the ELITE for what they do. Anybody saw a lot of documentaries which were funny and educative at the same time? I'm sure not... And this film is not propaganda for John Kerry as prez, since Moore has never been on the side of Democrats either (actually he DID directed some popular documentaries under the Clinton administration! )
June 22, 2004, 6:24 p.m. CST
by Sheik Yerbouti
June 22, 2004, 6:31 p.m. CST
Man, this sounds like it's chock full of amazing, never-before-seen footage. Apparently, people get HURT in WAR!!! My God, we had no idea!!! There's also OIL in the middle east! Holy moley, I'd have never known! Golly gee willickers, not EVERY soldier over there is a good hearted boy scout looking to do good! Man oh man, I am SO glad we have Michael Moore to explain these things to us. Oh, and Harry? That was a VERY admirable try. Comparing Moore to Capra and all. The difference is, Capra has talent. Moore is a talentless lying fucktard who doesn't make 'arguments', he screeches like a harpy until the other side blanches or ignore him. Please oh please spare us any further comparisons of Michael Moore to real, talented filmmakers. It's really a waste of time and an insult to those of us who appreciate film.
June 22, 2004, 6:31 p.m. CST
by BRING IT ON!
June 22, 2004, 6:32 p.m. CST
by BRING IT ON!
Anyone can manipulate folks, but it takes a special kind of craven, evil personality to manipulate a poor woman
June 22, 2004, 6:32 p.m. CST
by BRING IT ON!
HEZBOLLAH & ME
June 22, 2004, 6:39 p.m. CST
All of you. :)
June 22, 2004, 6:40 p.m. CST
June 22, 2004, 6:42 p.m. CST
Generally speaking, of course.
June 22, 2004, 6:48 p.m. CST
June 22, 2004, 6:53 p.m. CST
by BRING IT ON!
June 22, 2004, 6:59 p.m. CST
Great review of the movie. Hitchens pokes some serious holes in the film. I hope Moore has the cojones to take Hitchens up on his debate offer. Hitchens would mop the floor with him. http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
June 22, 2004, 7:03 p.m. CST
Heil mien Harry - We will remove the infestation
June 22, 2004, 7:07 p.m. CST
Remember when she was funny? Yeah, me either....
June 22, 2004, 7:08 p.m. CST
Wha dont all uv yoo rite weeng 'regular guys' boycott all uv those evul Holleewud films...Yoo culd start yore own republikan movee studeeo with broose willus and arrrnold!
June 22, 2004, 7:16 p.m. CST
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/ fighting words Unfairenheit 9/11 The lies of Michael Moore. By Christopher Hitchens Posted Monday, June 21, 2004, at 12:26 PM PT One of the many problems with the American left, and indeed of the American left, has been its image and self-image as something rather too solemn, mirthless, herbivorous, dull, monochrome, righteous, and boring. How many times, in my old days at The Nation magazine, did I hear wistful and semienvious ruminations? Where was the radical Firing Line show? Who will be our Rush Limbaugh? I used privately to hope that the emphasis, if the comrades ever got around to it, would be on the first of those and not the second. But the meetings themselves were so mind-numbing and lugubrious that I thought the danger of success on either front was infinitely slight. Nonetheless, it seems that an answer to this long-felt need is finally beginning to emerge. I exempt Al Franken's unintentionally funny Air America network, to which I gave a couple of interviews in its early days. There, one could hear the reassuring noise of collapsing scenery and tripped-over wires and be reminded once again that correct politics and smooth media presentation are not even distant cousins. With Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11, however, an entirely new note has been struck. Here we glimpse a possible fusion between the turgid routines of MoveOn.org and the filmic standards, if not exactly the filmic skills, of Sergei Eisenstein or Leni Riefenstahl. To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability. To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery. In late 2002, almost a year after the al-Qaida assault on American society, I had an onstage debate with Michael Moore at the Telluride Film Festival. In the course of this exchange, he stated his view that Osama Bin Laden should be considered innocent until proven guilty. This was, he said, the American way. The intervention in Afghanistan, he maintained, had been at least to that extent unjustified. Something
June 22, 2004, 7:17 p.m. CST
I think I will wait this title is in the "STEAL ME" stack in front of 1/2 price book stores
June 22, 2004, 7:20 p.m. CST
June 22, 2004, 7:36 p.m. CST
I am personally skeptical of our new "electronic" voting systems. Seems like another scam to fool Americans into believing that we actually reelect Bush. Can't wait to see this movie. I like to weed through propaganda on both sides and figure out what I think is right. It is very cool that there is now a mass entertainment propoganda to meet the deluge of pro Bush cr*p that we've been subjected to from every media outlet for the past 4 years. If anyone has any doubt about Bush, take a look at the GOP website for an eye-opener.
June 22, 2004, 7:43 p.m. CST
Therefore the concept of propoganda being used can initially pose a moral or ethical dilemma in that one must decide whether or not to use purely "facts" when advocating or informing etc. The reality of this issue is that a fact alone cannot create meaning, it is up to the subjective interpretation of people, THAT is what causes opinions to be made up or actions to occur. People are influenced all of their lives, the usually experience political socialization (a process wherein an individual is influenced by his/her environment, so much so that beliefs and opinions are formed as a result), and then have the ability to screen, out of the vast amount of opinions being spewed daily at them, what they WANT to hear. They can be selective, they can grasp on to their opinions and refuse to consider opposing beliefs. The point here is that people have many external influences that they cannot control bombarding them for their whole lives, therefore to be dissatisfied with the ethics of propoganda is not only invalid, it is hypocritical, because every sentence you speak has the possibility of being interpreted differently from the way it was meant, every word can possibly influence a random man to begin thinking about killing and push him over the edge, who knows. Therefore it is up to the individual, each and every one, to make important decisions that may play a part in deciding important fates in the future- fates like those of other human lives, entire countries or economies, and the state of the environment. So whether or not a filmmaker like Michael Moore strictly adheres to what his opposers claim are facts is an irrelevancy. He manipulates to create his subjective interpretation of what is going on- his artistic (yes there is art somewhere in there) vision. I know people who read that statement will either agree fervently or disagree fervently- FORGET ABOUT THAT FOR A SECOND, CALM DOWN, POUR SOME ICE WATER ON YOUR CROTCH! What I will say now IS relevant- thinking and acting for the greater good, having forsight and intelligence is what is important in these figures and everyone else, because we all have the ability to influence. I know, THEY have their own interests to look after, THEY are close-minded and continually spout THEIR views, BUT it is THEY, THEM, THOSE who decide fates of lives, of countries and economies. My belief is this- if we all become so suspicious that belief in anything is no longer possible, if we see a scandal that disillusions us to the point of apathy, THEY have WON (After reading through what I wrote I wanted to add that, in my opinion, being led to the point of killing is just as bad, but that may be too idealistic a view). WHAT the F*CK is the POINT OF LIVING in THE UNITED STATES, WITH THE FREEDOM TO VOTE, AND NOTE VOTE?! IT IS SELF-DEFEATING TO THINK THAT OUR GOVERNMENT IS ENTIRELY CORRUPT (IT IS COMPOSED OF INDIVIDUALS, NOT ROBOTS), GET OUT THERE AND VOTE FOR A DIFFERENT CANDIDATE, OR GET OUT THERE AND RUN YOURSELF, OR GET OUT THERE AND START A REVOLUTION, BUT GET THE F*CK OFF OF YOUR COUCH OR CHAIR, STOP WATCHING SURVIVOR 8000 OR PLAYING COUNTER-STRIKE FOR TEN HOURS A DAY, AND EXPRESS YOUR OPINION IN A WAY THAT MAKES CHANGE. It's up to YOU and your own ability to reason and consider, each individual plays a role in the fate of the world, morality and ethics do exist within the human race, both have the ability to sustain us somewhat, they are embedded within all that rhetoric and violence and despondency, somewhere. At least Moore is SPARKING something instead of deadening the populace with snore-inducing and redundant rhetoric (remember the T.S. Eliot poem "The Hollow Men"...). Consider this- if you're not sure about what you're being told over the news, remember that many MANY individuals were involved in bringing you that news. Consider that. Still suspicious? Call the news station or the paper, ask them about it. Get in contact with a local representative or senator, event try to write the White House if you want to. There are many things to do to affirm the FACT that HUMAN BEINGS are HUMAN BEINGS- we are all in this together, alive together, thinking and wondering together, so remember that unless machines rule us and control us, there will always be people in these times of conflict and mistrust, and nothing can influence a person better than another person. So think, consider, feel, and try to change things for the better. (Most people are by and large good and well-intentioned, even if their beliefs may appear otherwise)
June 22, 2004, 7:45 p.m. CST
Bush isn't trying to hide the realities of war, but many Americans are weak. They don't have the backbone they had 70 years ago.
June 22, 2004, 7:52 p.m. CST
June 22, 2004, 7:53 p.m. CST
June 22, 2004, 8:07 p.m. CST
by Uncle Stan
June 22, 2004, 8:09 p.m. CST
Christopher Hitchens is not a leftist. That's just about the most absurd thing I've ever seen written in a talkback that was meant to be taken seriously (with Arnie for Prez running close behind). Hitchens is practically a neoconservative. He's been screaming about deposing Saddam Hussein for most of a decade. He's even written books about it. Of course he's going to be critical of this film! It defies what has been the center of his political philosophy, which is how he makes his living, for the last ten years of his life. Hitchens is more worried about his legacy and livelihood than whether or not Michael Moore has made a good film. On that point, I don't know because I haven't seen it yet. I thought "Roger & Me" was a masterpiece, but I thought "Bowling for Columbine" was pretty much very simple anti-gun propaganda. I don't expect anything more than that from Moore this time around. However, that being said, Thomas Paine's "Common Sense" was a brilliant piece of wartime propaganda that helped lead to the independence of this country that now stands at a crossroads. Did the ends justify the means? You tell me. I consider Michael Moore a flawed patriot. I believe that he has a true love for this country that is occasionally hung up by his own tendency to self-promote. If there's a war in this country between the Red States and the Blue States, there's another war going on in Michael Moore's head between genuine patriotism and the culture of celebrity. Bush is Moore's worst enemy. The further our esteemed leader drives the wedge between rich and poor, Christians and non-Christians, gays and straights, hawks and doves, the more vitriolic and out-of-control Moore becomes. Of course, the English thought that John Adams was vitriolic and out-of-control too. Because he was. We are at a crossroads here, people, and I don't know how many Americans realize that. Bush tries to work his corporate connections and wield the power of the bully pulpit to censor the news. He bullied Disney into dropping Moore's film - it was a fucking Gestapo tactic! We should be screaming at the top of our lungs about this subtle act of censorship. Red flags should have gone up the first time Ari Fleischer went on TV and told us to watch what we say. This is Michael Moore's way of telling Ari Fleischer to go fuck himself, thank you very much, and I'll say whatever I damn well please. There is no question in my mind that if the Constitution was not structured as brilliantly as it is, Bush would declare himself President-for-Life, dissolve Congress, and make an attempt to dominate the world. Fortunately, that's not something we have to worry about (at least not right now). The censorship, the secrecy, the arrogance of this White House is stunning. Unprecedented. Read John Dean's book "Worse than Watergate". George Bush thinks he's been ordained by God to lead the United States to victory. For Christ's sake, that's like something Saddam would say! Torture memos, Abu Ghraib, an alliance with the fucking Saudis! The Saudi royal family is a bunch of gangsters. Everyone else in the world knows this. You honestly believe Bush doesn't? In short, Michael Moore is throwing everything but the kitchen sink at George W. Bush, just like Paine and Adams did at George III 250 years ago, so I think I'll forgive him if he goes a little over-the-top in the process. Incidentally, since the Dubya supporters in the house are labeling me a pansy-assed liberal right now, I voted for John McCain in 2000. Now HE would have been a great President. He sure wouldn't have gone into Iraq without sufficient evidence of WMDs. He might have wanted to, but he wouldn't have. And now we're in a mess and we have to stay and fix it and it's all George W. Bush's fault. This nation's reputation, stature, and morale has already been damaged by our little Iraqi adventure. The failure to kick Bush out on his ass would be a tragic mistake that would lead to further and absolutely unprecedented damage, because to give him four more years is to give him free reign. He won't have another election to worry about. He'll be able to do pretty much whatever he wants, and do it with impunity. I'm voting for John Kerry even though he's by no means a prize because to vote for anybody else would be to vote for Bush. The election's going to be too close. So go, Mike, go. Go on wit' yo bad self. I'm rooting for "Fahrenheit 9/11" to break fucking records. And hey - everybody be nice to Harry, okay? You don't like him, get off the site. And to the idiots who are telling him not to bring politics into his review ... well, you're idiots, like I just said. How do you not bring politics into a review of a movie about politics? Jesus Christ, sometimes I think I'm living in Bizarro World...
June 22, 2004, 8:14 p.m. CST
Honestly, if what the man is doing is just spouting off garbage, then you shouldn't have any problem with the flick, it'll speak for itself when it tanks. The way some of you are fighting with all your soul against it makes it seem like perhaps old Mike has unearthed something you don't want unearthed.
June 22, 2004, 8:20 p.m. CST
by Apple Pie
Harry, you should really keep your political opinions to yourself, by stroking this you are no better than Moore using the same vehicle in media to present your/his agenda. Do some homework and you will find Moore is as corrupt as those he accuses of the same! Mr. Bush is our President and he deserves our respect and allegiance, if I could give it to Clinton I can certainly give it to our current President - if you don't like it - leave, no one is stopping you. I am however losing respect for you and will be taking my own advice.
June 22, 2004, 8:21 p.m. CST
I can't keep arguing the same points on talkback after talkback. Just go see the damn movie if you want to, it doesn't matter anyway. // I have ranted in the past about the fact that the internet has poisoned human relations by allowing too many people too much access to the thoughts and opinions of too many of their fellow men. I also think that the internet helps kill the hope of reform, because if you talk to enough people in enough places on the internet you'll realize that not only is no one ever going to change their mind about any subject, ever, but that even if by some miracle people DID start changing their minds there are just too many people and too many boards, and it's too many arguments to have, and there's always somebody knew who thinks the same stupid shit the guy five minutes ago thought. It's like an intellectual Dawn of the Dead [Romero version] where they JUST KEEP COMING until reaching an end and giving up is a mercy. You think your vote doesn't count? It does, but so does everyone else's, and unless you're Herakles you will never clean out enough of the stable to get the shit that is the public mind to move.
June 22, 2004, 8:25 p.m. CST
...get ready for some hate-mongering, everyone...
June 22, 2004, 8:32 p.m. CST
"Michael Moore shows the viewer how this isn
June 22, 2004, 8:36 p.m. CST
Anyone who thinks that Christopher Hitchens is NOT a leftist is almost unbearably uninformed. How about reading "No One Left To Lie To", where Hitchens launches an anti-Clinton tirade, because Clinton passed too much legislation that Republicans wanted, like welfare reform, and wasn't liberal enough. Read "The Trial of Henry Kissinger" where Hitchens calls for Vietnam-era politicians to be tried for war crimes. Read any of the material he published in Mother Jones and The Nation in the last 20 years. It's bizarre how someone can carry water for progressivism for decades but if they don't toe the line on ONE issue, they're immediately "essentially a neo-con". You people are priceless. Or is the real issue here simply that you have no idea who Hitchens is, and have no political memory longer than the last 12 months, and therefore believe that everyone who was pro-war must be on the right?
June 22, 2004, 8:39 p.m. CST
Even though you admitted to being a liberal, you viewed this movie from an independent view and saw it as a film. And that independence is the way for a better america!!!
June 22, 2004, 8:52 p.m. CST
by Big Dumb Ape
Wow. Yet another holdover year 2000 crybaby who still can't deal with the reality that Gore LOST and was, quite frankly, a shitty candidate and God knows how fucked up the world would be right now had HE been in charge post 9/11. Well, least clods like Moviemack have geek movies to lose themselves in. Deal with it, you bitches -- Bush WON the Florida election. Even recounts by the major news organizations showed that. And he's going to win in November AGAIN...so I guess we can all look forward to 4 more years of you assholes whining like the clueless clods you are.
June 22, 2004, 8:58 p.m. CST
that its not true. I don't like Bush but does anyone have a problem that what Moore is doing is essentially what Bush is doing: Lying to the people to promote their agenda? I know, I know, Bush's lies aren't as deadly as Moore's but it is irresponsible of Moore to promote this film as history. It is not. And it is not satire. It is Moore trying to rewrite history to promote his agenda. It troubles me.
June 22, 2004, 9:07 p.m. CST
by Commando Cody
Seriously -- get a grip, people. Those on the Left will flock to this to support their love child Moore, thus helping its box office. Hell, be prepared for those on the Left to champion this all the way to best picture just so fucking Hollywood can shine its liberal ways yet again. Those on the Right will protest it and will stay away in droves. Protest it, do what makes them happy to vilify it. Those in the middle...well, some will go, others will say the hell with it, who wants the headache of seeing such a piece of shit and will choose to see New York get flooded and ice aged again or make some such decision at the multiplex. FAHRENHEIT will get press for a few days as flavor of the moment...then SPIDERMAN 2 hits and will blow the box office doors off the hinges. And given that media outlets love their "news of the day" or more important, want to play to trends to make them money, you can bet that SPIDERMAN 2 coverage will drown out Moore after his initial weekend. Come November, NO ONE -- unless they're truly a brainless idiot -- will vote based on Michael Moore's shitfest. They'll vote based on their POCKETBOOK the same way they always do. And since the economy HAS now had 10 straight months of economic expansion and it's predicted that the majority of job numbers lost post 9/11 will be replaced (if not exceeded by November) it's a good bet people just might be feeling their wallets ARE doing all right and stick with Bush. God I hope so, because fucking Kerry, as a handpuppet with drunk Ted Kennedy's hand up his ass, will tax everything he sees in sight and be a truly shitty Commander in Chief. If Kerry wins, look for him to put in place a foreign policy that calls for us to surrender to fucking France...
June 22, 2004, 9:10 p.m. CST
Those who say that Harry must shut up about the subject, should remember that this is his site, and it is free. So, if you don't like his political views, go somewhere else.******* Those who say that Kerry is "a pussy", implying that Bush is not, should remember that when it was time to walk the walk and not talk the talk, one went to war and the other used family connections to dodge real service. ****** As to Moore himself, well, I am not a fan of his, precisely because I disapprove of any kind of propaganda (no matter if their final objectives are close to mine). Nevertheless, Bush supporters that (suddenly)want full objectivity should remember Bush's own rethorical excesses. I particularly disapproved how he used to fall on anybody who did not agree with him (you are either with liberty and democracy or not, the evil axis, old Europe, etcetera) ****** And in general, people, if you can only defend your point of view with oneliners or insults , it might be time for you to start reading and watching less tv.
June 22, 2004, 9:14 p.m. CST
How many times do Bush and his cronies have to get caught lying to you before you realize they are liars - not to mention murderers, Rapturists and ultimately suckers of Satan's cock? I don't need Michael Moore to tell me this. The proof is out there, from numerous, perfectly credible news sources, laid before us in the most obvious smorgasboard of bullshit ever. If you can't read between the lines, please watch The Daily Show rerun tonight (7pm PST) where both Cheney and Bush passionately deny that they ever made specifically-worded claims about Al Qaeda's ties to Iraq, only to be refuted by videotape of them saying these things verbatim. All politicians are liars to some degree, sure. But these Bush guys are FUCKING EVIL and they're determined to bring about Armageddon with their fundamentalist/manifest destiny vision. If that's what America's all about, then fuck America and fuck you.
June 22, 2004, 9:16 p.m. CST
by Jervis Tetch
But you know in a week the whole site's going to go apeshit for Spider-Man 2. Let's set our priorities, here, huh? P.S. Propaganda is for dumb people. If you're smart, you see through it. Isn't everybody here smart? So you want to fool dumb people to get Kerry elected? Isn't that cynical and corrupt? P.P.S. Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson made this current crowd look like nothing, corrupt power-wise. You could look it up.
June 22, 2004, 9:19 p.m. CST
Ray Bradbury is a little pissed off Moore is using this title for his movie because it comes to close to that of Fahrenheit 451. He's insisting that Mr. Moore rename his documentary. Maybe because of the still-in-development-hell remake movie that may soon see the light of day? Actually...maybe, never. Darn fine novel, though.
June 22, 2004, 9:25 p.m. CST
June 22, 2004, 9:43 p.m. CST
June 22, 2004, 10:10 p.m. CST
made a film about not re-electing FDR or Truman. Wouldn't that have made people vote! I guess with the Nazis and Commies gone the only enemies we Americans have left are ourselves. Oh yeah...and those guys who like to crash planes into our buildings, blow up our ships, blow up our embassy, blow up trains, and behead people like its Bastille Day. I always found Moore to be entertaining but it is telling that there is no room in his films for opposing views. I guess that could never be said for AICN. LOL!
June 22, 2004, 10:25 p.m. CST
Harry, you never should have reviewed M-n-M's filmed with the copywrite-infringed title. Now that you have exposed yourself as an unabashed Bush-hating leftist, you've lost the respect of your centrist and right-leaning readers.
June 22, 2004, 10:35 p.m. CST
masqurading as the almighty OZ. There are so many fallacies and contridictions within this film yet Moore skillfully manipulates the willing viewer into seeing his "logic" no matter what evidence there is against it. For example, Moore states that it's mighty suspicious, given the ties between the Bush and Bin Laden families, that the members of the Bin Laden family are flown out of the states immediately following the attacks. Richard Clarke as well as the 9/11 commission have both come forth that Clarke was the man responsible for these flights. Clark is otherwise portrayed as the uncompromising hero in the film by Moore. Odd, but oh well, LOOK!!! BUSH IS GOLFING PEOPLE!!!! The same liberals who rant about the sheep following the Bush policies are the same who slavishly follow Moore's "logic" without regard for facts. -The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or are simply humanitarians who object to taking life and prefer not to follow their thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists, whose real though unacknowledged motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration for totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writing of the younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States
June 22, 2004, 10:45 p.m. CST
Yes, WHY WE FIGHT was propaganda-- a government-sponsored project, and a military assignment for Frank Capra. "Propaganda" is what you see every night when you turn on Fox News. To Bush's regret, there are still some parts of the Constitution that allow American citizens the right to criticize their government. Agree with his sentiments or not, Moore is an ACTIVIST, not a propagandist.
June 22, 2004, 10:53 p.m. CST
by Junior Frenger
Huh...Wha?!?!? Bluelou, you really don't visit this site much do you.
June 22, 2004, 10:56 p.m. CST
Whether it's a propaganda film or not, whether it's anti bush or not, you people forget one thing; "A society willing to trade a little bit of freedom for a little bit of security, deserves neither and will lose both." -Benjamin Franklin
June 22, 2004, 11:06 p.m. CST
by Simon Moon
Since this movie is rated "R", once I am at the theater, I will offer to be a "guardian" to any teenager under 17 who wants to watch this film. It's the intelligent version of buying an underage kid beer.
June 22, 2004, 11:14 p.m. CST
by Commando Cody
Seriously, that's MAJOR penis envy. Comparable to the way France WISHES it was an actual world power and DREAMS it could have the stature and class of America. Look, if you truly believe Fox news is slanted and biased, here's an earthshaking newsflash for you: you can turn the dial and watch CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC, ABC, John Stewart on Comedy Central or however you want to get your news, which would also include listening to the radio and -- gasp! -- READING whichever newspaper or news magazine you like. Which isn't even tough any more in this day and age when they're all essentially accessible online. Hell, if you don't like the NY POST because (like Fox) being Rupert Murdoch-owned you feel it's too Right leaning, then call up Dailynews.com or NewYorkTimes.com or whatever the hell regional paper you DO like. Bottom line, you Leftist assholes that go after Fox News for "propaganda spreading" conspicuously had your mouths shut back when CNN -- aka the Clinton News Network -- was on top of the heap and was the primary news outlet. Funny how you didn't complain about bias THEN. Bottom line, people will watch and read and listen to what they choose to read based on their leanings which is their RIGHT. Last I looked around, it's still a free country and thus I have the right to watch or listen to or read WHICHEVER news outlet I want. But for crying out loud, you can't blame Fox News or Richard Ailles for simply being successful at what they do. I mean, if there are so many Left wing news junkies who feel their viewpoints or their "slanted coverage" is being shut out, then they should simply flock to those stations that DO cater to their views. Which is interesting, considering CNN's ratings are waaaaaaaaaaaay down and Air America a late night joke for being such a disaster. Personally, I love how Al Franken likes to beat his chest like the dumbass he is saying he's more popular than Bill O'Reilly and that more people listen to him -- which would be a statistical miracle (and improbability) given that O'Reilly is syndicated in over 400 major markets while Air America is in a whopping...yes, count 'em...15. So quit the Fox News bitching. You don't like it, watch something else. But shut the hell up if other people do CHOOSE to watch it. Or is cultural tyrrany and what we get to see part of the liberal agenda? (Well, actually it is as demonstrated by Hollywood and now FAHRENHEIT 9/11). Fuck you idiot that come down on Fox News. They do a great job and I intend to keep getting my Laurie Dhue fix. YUMMM!
June 22, 2004, 11:14 p.m. CST
by Roger Thornhill
All documentaries manipulate to one degree or another, yet there are all still documentaries. Some documentarians have a strong viewpoint like Errol Morris, Leni Riefenstahl, Robert Flaherty, and yes Michael Moore while the more banal ones produce standard documentaries for the history channel or discovery. It is these documentarians with strong and often times flawed viewpoints like Riefenstahl that make their films so compelling. Most educated viewers should go into a documentary hoping to be provoked intellectually, but should certainly not believe everything they see. Rather, they should come away from the film interested in learning more about the subject matter of the film. And for those advocating that Michael Moore makes propaganda films I have this to say: One man's propaganda is another man's truth. Labeling a film as propaganda is insufficient because not only is "propaganda" not a genre, but it is almost impossible for everyone to universially agree that a picture is propaganda. I'm sure there are many neo-Nazis who consider Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will an accurate portrait of the Third Reich and its ideals.
June 22, 2004, 11:26 p.m. CST
Because there are no good reasons to vote for Kerry. Even the hollywood elite buying out screenings of this movie this weekend to build the hype and jack up the box office isn't going to help this garbage....it will be forgotten in a couple weeks.
June 22, 2004, 11:32 p.m. CST
by Triumph poops!
Moore has stated this is NOT a documentary, but his opinion piece. So if it gets nominated for Best Documentary will he turn it down? Ha! Not likely. The odds of fat boy actually keeping his word is...well, about as likely as him using these little things called "facts" in his fucked-up films. Heaven forbid Moore would turn down another opportunity to make himself rich off the sufferings and blood of others -- much like he's now pimping the spirits of 9/11 to fatten his own wallet for his own fame and fortune. Moore should be ashamed of himself -- no, forget that, the man is an unfeeling asshole. Here's hoping he just eats one too many burgers this week and his fucking fat ass just explodes.
June 22, 2004, 11:43 p.m. CST
why is it that "penis envy" a freudian term used to categorize women who were frustrated by mens advantage in the world of business and general life has been misstrued by "cody" to denote someone who is envious of the size of ones penis? France won our revolution for us, we "dissed" them in theirs, they still won without our help. Fox news should be followed by the word"entertainment". they are made fun of because they have no basis in fact except that bush is jesus(yes, not capitalized). Join the army and request a tour in Iraq if you are so pissed, America has become the British empire we so hated not 220 years ago. All of you Tories need to leave this country. HOY HOY Lars
June 22, 2004, 11:50 p.m. CST
Bush's entire presidency has been a bunch of lies or distortions of the truth for political gain. Other than what everyone knows already about Iraq...look no further than his earth day message of all the good he's done for the environment.
June 23, 2004, 12:05 a.m. CST
"If Michael Moore
June 23, 2004, 12:05 a.m. CST
Ok, before Harry
June 23, 2004, 12:11 a.m. CST
I meant to include this: http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
June 23, 2004, 12:19 a.m. CST
Charleton heston is a goddamn hero. He answers questions when asked, and leaves when he feels they may be hurtful to his reputation. Goddamn hero. Why can't we all agree that we have problems and we need to get over them as a country, not as a divided bunch of high school dropouts arguing over whether acid or ecstasy is the better drug.Noone in this forum can tell me any historical fact, and i don't think i'm the most inteligent person in the world, but give me something more than"my daddy sez jezuz is thu answer to awl prawblems so ahm safe in heaven". God doesn't care for idiots, and the christian religion is a perfect example, it's a middle eastern religion,not a mid class white america religion, think about how many times the bible has been changed. you just don't know
June 23, 2004, 12:20 a.m. CST
by Sicuv Uyall
I had a good response to dickhead Bushsux, but put the wrong password, and erased when I tried to return to the page. Anyway, if you thing Fox News is too biased to the right, wait till you check out Newsmax.com. What crock of shit that is.
June 23, 2004, 12:23 a.m. CST
Comparing Moore to Capra.....You need some professional help and I suggest you dont delay in getting some !
June 23, 2004, 12:24 a.m. CST
by Roger Thornhill
You failed to make a compelling arguement that Michael Moore is not a documentarian based on what I had written previously. You argued that because of his lies he not a documentarian. However, I stated that all documentaries manipulate the facts in order to suit the documentarian's point-of-view, even the most minor of documentaries engage in this. Documentarians choose what shots will be in their films and what shots will not, thus they are making a conscious decision about what is in their film and what is not. I'm not arguing that Moore speaks the truth, but I am arguing that he, like all documentarians, chooses what will be in his film and what won't. Now having said that, how is Moore NOT a documentarian?
June 23, 2004, 12:41 a.m. CST
by The Ghost of Scrappy Doo
My problem with the political discourse today is simply this: Harry and his ilk say that Big Macs suck and we should order a Whopper instead. Okay, WHY should I buy a Whopper? Because it's NOT a Big Mac. Yeah, okay, but WHY should I buy a Whopper? BECAUSE BIG MACS TASTE LIKE SHIT! Well, what does a Whopper taste like? WHO CARES, I DON'T KNOW, IT DOESN'T TASTE LIKE A BIG MAC!!!! DIDN'T YOU SEE THAT TWO HOUR DOCUMENTARY MICHAEL MOORE MADE ABOUT HOW FRICKING HORRIBLE AND GOD AWFUL BIG MACS ARE???? Yeah, but I'm not going to blindly order a Whopper instead unless you give me a REASON to be FOR SOMETHING, not just AGAINST something.
June 23, 2004, 12:44 a.m. CST
for you guys to admit that he's a bad president? Would he have to actually break into your house, cut off a baby's head and jerk off into your mom's face? Would he have to ban Superman comics? Does it really take more than letting a fucking plan hit the Pentagon (!!!) and losing two wars, to convince Americans that maybe, just maybe, this administration is not exactly "strong on defense"? I honestly believe that Bush and Cheney could rape ten women on TV wearing suits made out of human fetuses and all the Republicans in congress (even McCain, I'm afraid) would figure out a way to explain it. And those of us who said, "Wait a minute, was I imagining it or did I just see Bush and Cheney rape ten women on TV? And were they wearing what I thought they were wearing?" would be called a bunch of "conspiracy theorists" "spewing hatred." Note how just in these two talkbacks, probably a few hundred thousand words have been written about the "lies" and "hatred" and "venom" and "holes" and "deception" and "propaganda" in the movie - a movie that NONE of you fuckers have even seen! And proudly declare you do not plan to see! Is it possible that maybe you just aren't willing to admit that the sky is fucking blue? It is absolutely freaking amazing that your brains can jump through that many hoops to explain it away. So good job everybody, I guess.
June 23, 2004, 12:56 a.m. CST
Moore and Bush, well their both fucking liars as far as I'm concerned. I have read recently that Moore made an unflattering 9/11 comment in the past that would put him in the same asshole parthenon as Jerry "I fucked my mother and enjoyed it" Falwell and Rush "Get the pills" Limbaugh (Falwell for his own 9/11 comments and Limbaugh for his inhuman Abu Ghraib comments). You want real hard truth facts, skip this pile of shit and demand that your local theater acquire the documentary "Control Room" about Al-Jazeera television, the news network that Rumsfeld claims is pro-Al Quaida (sp) or something, it may be more boring than Fahrenheit but Control Room has yet to have a handful of non-Republican movie critics poke holes in any of its falsehoods unlike Fahrenheit.
June 23, 2004, 12:59 a.m. CST
by The Killer-Goat
I would agree with most of your points except for one reality: while it's obvious we are done with the Cold War, we still don't have that utopian, egalitarian planet. If push came to shove, I'd keep my feet firmly planted on Terra America. The terrorists certainly shoved pretty hard. When some noisy sonofabitch from the Middle East decides to continue exercising his vocal right to broadcast anti-American intentions, threatening my wife and child, you better believe I will whole-heartedly endorse a pre-emptive strike, by any means necessary. My family are worth more to me than some fanatics with a suicidal/homicidal mantra. In the end, that is all I could really care about. Shallow, maybe, in light of yours and Nicole's observations, but very true. *********** Iraq, unfortunately, seems a sad example of 'collateral damage' being used to further reinforce the opposing principles of either 'side'.
June 23, 2004, 1:02 a.m. CST
by Triumph poops!
Can't wait. Talk about posts that will be great to put up. And just think of all that Liberal ass election night that will be primed for a royal ass whooping and public mocking, as election night shows yet again how Libs can only be losers in life...
June 23, 2004, 1:04 a.m. CST
O-K! Where was I? Oh yeah
June 23, 2004, 1:05 a.m. CST
Harry, being a supreme liberal I know you love Fahrenheit 9/11, and me, even though I'm mostly conservative, I will give up some time to give Moore's little magnum opus a try. But will you PLEASE GIVE ONE ARTICLE'S WORTH OF YOUR TIME TO THE LITTLE KNOWN DOCUMENTARY MICHAEL MOORE HATES AMERICA?!!? This little piece will most certainly not get the multi-billion dollar push Fahrenheit is getting, and since for that reason it might be considered the epitomie of indie film right now (no ads everywhere and what not)it should get a LITTLE notice. Just one article that is all I ask. That's been one of the great things about your website Harry. Without it I would have never heard of movies like Battle Royale amongst many others I cannot think of at this moment. I respect your political convictions but please give a smidgen of time to the other side. I'd like to close by saying that I have seen Moore's face everywhere now, in all forms of media, for the past month in preparation for this documentary. It's because of this I think we can expect him to get a light skewering from the boys of South Park just like Mel "pray for your deliverance" Gibson got in that episode "The Passion of the Jew".
June 23, 2004, 1:11 a.m. CST
June 23, 2004, 1:19 a.m. CST
by Jervis Tetch
1. For those of of you hoping that Moore's film "converts" votes against Bush that don't exist already, thus far, he may be turning off more swing votes than he's attracting. Why: Cuz he's fat. People are BIASED against fat people. Even fat people are biased against fat people. Swing voters see Michael Moore's bulbous unshaven face and body hanging out and figure he has no self-discipline, self-control, self-respect, or self-esteem, and so his movie picks up a bad vibe on general principles. Thus, the more Moore is seen promoting his film, the better chances he offers Bush to pick up some votes. 2. Harry ends up painted with the same brush, too, cuz he's fatter than Moore. 3. Harry, in aligning himself not simply with the liberal side of the street but with Ted friggin' Rall, starts to concern Hollywood bigwigs who were feeding Harry info, stuff, and perks. Remember, Harry: they aren't liberal about making their money. If "Hanoi Harry" becomes a poison endorsement for studio movie product , the gravy train ends now. It looks like the gravy train is already ending. This site is always scooped by about four others. Photos, leads, go to other sites first. Hollywood is worried by you, Harry. GWB can't hurt you, but the wealthiest corporations of Hollywood can - and will. I'm just trying to help.
June 23, 2004, 2:15 a.m. CST
by Cpt. Matt
You can almost see all the political extremists types spitting, sputter and foaming all over their keyboards, typing so furiously that they can barely spell. Its hilarious.
June 23, 2004, 3:49 a.m. CST
by Junior Frenger
Yeah...sure, Harold. Michael Moore proved with BFC that he's willing to manipulate and distort the facts to his own self serving needs. The irony here is that he's no better than his own arch nemesis Dubya. Kerry and Bush are both nothing but propped up puppets for special interest groups. You won't see me voting for either of these clowns.
June 23, 2004, 3:56 a.m. CST
Michael Moore is one of the most important figures to come out as a victim of the Corporate Engine that has been consuming this great country of ours. I think it has become popular to hate him, if only for his now infamous Oscar speech, but Goddammit!!! It is his right, just as it is your right to write in this talkback. Many people were opposed to the way he treated Charleton Heston. They cited that he is suffering from Alzheimers, but nonetheless, Michael Moore had the right to question him. Charleton Heston was the supreme representative of the NRA and he had to be prepared to answer those questions. Yes it is true, Michael Moore knows how to piss people off. He pisses off those who do not want to accept the truth of the matter, who dont want to accept that our goverment has had any role in the death of billions, that want to blindly deny that the "Great Ronald Regan" died with the blood of countless Innocent Guatemalans who were killed by U.S. trained death squads on his frail hands. Yes, this shit has been going on for a long time my friends. Yet here we have a man who believes so much in his country that he shows us how we can make a difference, how we can change this seemingly endless cycle,... but all people want to do is gripe about him and hate him only because they know that deep in their hearts they hate themselves for letting these things happen. Nonetheless, you ultimately have the right to make the decision... you have seen the reports coming in. Our soldiers are dying for the sins of our President. Next thing you know, you will be drafted and on your way to fight next to those who have seen enough death and destruction to drive all sense of love and compassion away. God forbid that we see your name on a wall in comemoration of that atrocity called Gulf War 2. God forbid that we suffer the same fate we have suffered over and over again. Let us hope we have learned from History, becasue if we havent then we need to get ready for what is coming to us.
June 23, 2004, 3:59 a.m. CST
by Triumph poops!
Now THAT'S the funniest shit I've read on the boards yet, right up their with the Liberal lies being said to support Michael Moore. Hope you're doing stand-up comedy somewhere Lars with knee slappers like that. France is and always has been one nation of surrendering-prone idiots. And no matter what you say about their help in the American Revolution, there's no question the USA has paid them back in spades by continually saving their asses EVERY time since then and continually bailed their butts out. Why? Because they just flat out suck militarily.
June 23, 2004, 4:06 a.m. CST
by Triumph poops!
No, Pieeye, what pissed people off is that in BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE Moore took comments Heston made at an NRA meeting and edited them into the film as if to make it seem that he was making them RIGHT AFTER the Columbine shooting, as if Heston or any gun owners had no feelings about what had happened - when in fact Heston's speech was more than a year later. But again, what's new? Now you have Moore editing FAHRENHEIT to make it look like Bush does nothing but play golf juxtaposed against war footage. As if fucking Clinton never played golf...or worse, how about Michael Moore editing the footage of Clinton getting his dicked sucked by Monica and juxtaposing THAT with the arrivals in the country (and under Clinton's nose) of the actual 9/11 conspirators...or we can juxtapose Clinton shooting his load on Monica's blue dress with shots of the hijackers taking their piloting lessons (also done under Clinton's nose). Gee, this "documentary" filmmaking stuff is pretty fucking easy when you do it the Michael Moore way...
June 23, 2004, 4:41 a.m. CST
June 23, 2004, 5:39 a.m. CST
Propaganda is not the truth, as you so clearly explained it when talking about "WHY WE FIGHT". Now, it is really sad that you point out in your review the very facts that make Michael Moore's "Farenheit 9/11" such worthless crap, and then turn around and give it such glowing praise. If you set out to make a documentary (specially if you are sure about your being on the side of "the TRUTH", as Moore pathetically claims), then you don't need to distort the facts, or edit them to show what you want them, distorting what the specific clip and/or newscast actually had to say to suit your purpose. That is not a documentary, but a work of fiction. And a bad, derivative piece of fiction at that, due to the fact that it lacks any original thought. I normally enjoy your reviews but I truly believe you are letting your political views blind you into giving praise to this hack. President Bush has done more for this country than the likes of M. Moore will ever be able to claim for themselves. If you agree or disagree with him is cool, a matter of your own political views and upraising, I suppose. Distorting facts like Moore does in his movie, is (again, as you so clearly put it) propaganda,and badly done propaganda at that. It should never be allowed to be called a "Documentary", when the only thing it "documents" is Moore's own twisted political views. Shame on you, baby.
June 23, 2004, 6:27 a.m. CST
Moore's work won't change the minds of those who watch it. All it will do is galvanize the opinions of those individuals who disagree. If Mr. Moore's primary goal is to get more people to the polls, I think he will succeed by encouraging an avalanche... of Republican voters.
June 23, 2004, 6:28 a.m. CST
Oh can we really trust a positive review about F911 from the same man who gave Van Helsing glowing reviews? Your reviews are irrelevant as your movie career will be Harry.
June 23, 2004, 7:06 a.m. CST
come on!!! people are being decapitated by these crazy militants!!! i mean, didn't that stop like in the middle ages? Whether we should have gone in to iraq or not is a mute point now. we're there and in it up to our eyeballs. no getting out now-for better or worse. my point is, moore should have used better journalistic judgement in his film. Free speech is one of our greatest liberties, but it does carry some responsibility. noe is the time for support of our troops and providing safety for the iraqis. Moore is simply pouring gas on an already burning fire. un-necessary to the utmost.
June 23, 2004, 7:28 a.m. CST
You so incredibly deluded that I frankly can't understand which reality you have been living in (or what kind of old tennis shoes have you been smoking). "Liked it, mostly 'cuz you liked the movie and you didn't have to run in circles to admit it." Liking it is not the problem, and i don't blame Harry for saying it. To each his own. Comparing Michael Moore with frank Capra, well, there's a huge stretch of the imagination. "I particularly like all the sentences with the words 'BUSH' and 'NAZI' in them. Good job, Bush is a Nazi." If I am to believe that you TRULY believe this, I would recomend you to go pick up a couple of history books and find out what "nazism" really was, and what it meant. Obviously, the descriptions you've been getting are not the real ones. Again, come back to reality. The world might be able to welcome you back. "I don't particularly agree with most things Michael Moore says, (MOSTLY ON GUN CONTROL, because Moore is rich and doesn't live in my neighborhood.)" Good of you to notice some of Moore's "sincere hypocrisy"...but let's move on... "But, he's spot on about Bush and the lying, spineless, thieving, murdering, warmongering, baby killing, cocksucking motherfucker is probably going to get elected again. Why? Because, no one cares." Wrong, Bud. He will probably be re-elected because people DO care about murdering barbarians coming to our land and commiting cold-blooded murder. Because he has actually done something to stop these slimy scumbags that have spent hundreds of years murdering each other, spent years murdering our people abroad, and have now decided to bring war to our shores. Bush didn't declare war on them without reason and on a whim; he declared war on them to keep 9/11 from happening again, and the people of the United States (other than the millionaires in Hollywood, including Moore) actually understand that...and respect it. Don't be deceived by what the media tells you these days about the feelings of this country toward Bush. They said the same about Reagan, and he won on a landslide. "No one thinks they can make a difference. Most people can't even be bothered to think bigger thoughts than their own petty bullshit." Do I detect a bit of projection here? Sorry, dude, but I know a LOT of people that KNOW they can make a difference. I count myself among them. And I believe that people like Michael Moore just hate a country I happen to love and be proud of. I choose to make a difference just by not paying for a ticket to watch this drivel. "Why is that? BECAUSE THEY'VE WON YOU IGNORANT, LAZY FUCKING MAGGOTS!!! Yes, in the end, it really DOESN'T MATTER if you vote or not. The cocksuckers have been fucking us for too long and hey, let's face it, the people of America are a GOOD FUCK and what do you do when you find a good fuck? YOU KEEP FUCKING! The cocksuckers are too used to good sex and they're not going to give it up." Mmmmmmm...even if I still think that voting DOES matter, it does seem that you have a few problems of your own. It's ok. After reading your "enlightened" words on this post, I rather you didn't vote at all. Just keep thinking that way. It will take you far. "Unfortunately most people can't wake up long enough to see the line of people waiting to get a turn in their ass to think, "Hey, this is America, I don't have to take this."" Actually, they did this already...right after 9/11. No matter how many America bashers are out there, this IS America, and we DON'T have to take this. Even now it feels damned good to say it out loud. "TOO LATE FUCKERS! It's too far gone. Anyone who has anything to say is stygmatized by a nearly STATE OWNED MEDIA and written off as a crack pot." If you have ANY inclination to think that the media (CBS, NBC, The New York Times, etc) are really "state owned" and back the government (specially the Bush White House) on everything they want, MAN!, you really have some serious issues! Either (1) You haven't read anything else since that good "Jack and Jill" book you borrowed in 1st grade, or (2) You are farther out there in La-La Land that we could have possibly imagined. Either way, go read a newspaper, for pete's sake, ANY newspaper. Maybe if you see how wrong you are on this particular point it will drive you to revisit some of your other delusions. "he police can do whatever they want. The Justice system has been completely overtaken." Are you really living in this country? You're not writing from France, are you? "Face it, people, you've all fallen asleep at the wheel and the fuckers have come in, put on nice suits and turned America into an evil empire. THAT'S RIGHT, FUCKERS! AMERICA IS IN FACT THE FUCKING BAD GUY!!!!" Oh, the old rallying "Evil-Empire" cry of the "Hate-America First" sector of the left. Hell, man. If you had not said THAT, I could have never guessed it by listening to you talk. "Why? How did this happen? Because, everyone let themselves be talked into believing they didn't matter." Speak for yourself, bud. Mmmm, to think of it, you already have. "Well, it's too late now. The damage is done. And the funny part? Now, you TRULY don't matter. Congratulations, fuckwits. Oh, you better run, I think there's some fucking reality show you may be missing. That's what's really important isn't it?" Well, if you manage to tear yourself away from those "reality shows", do come back and visit us on this planet we like to call Earth. We'll return the favor and visit you in La-La Land if we get the time after we send Kerry back to the Senate. Good luck.
June 23, 2004, 7:30 a.m. CST
You're quite right, I announce the uselessness of discourse maybe once a day. And then come right back as soon as something else I read clicks in my head. This is because I can't help myself. How do you think I'm so sure that the excessive garrulousness of our society is an insuperable problem? Because even when I realize it I can't resist it. And by the way, depending on the mythological figure involved, I tend to naturally think of the Greek rather than the Roman name. In this instance, I just happened to think of the Greek one. Actually, the pomposity kicked in when I used the "k" version of the spelling instead of the "c" version. I hate when people do that - except when I do it too.
June 23, 2004, 7:33 a.m. CST
Very well said. Thank you.
June 23, 2004, 7:52 a.m. CST
I'm going to take the position and say that there isn't enough politics on this site. There isn't enough discussion of politics in America in general. That's what the conservatives like, for the other 90% to have their heads in the sand obsessing over movies and sports. Sure, I love movies and sports, but I also love this country. Fuck the conservatives in '04!
June 23, 2004, 8:08 a.m. CST
by Azlam Orlandu
I swear it was Harry in that episode. -Az
June 23, 2004, 8:11 a.m. CST
June 23, 2004, 8:16 a.m. CST
I really don't understand how after all that has happened in the last 2 years that people can't have made their own mind up about Bush, I do appreciate michael moore and if his documentary works as a rallying call then good for it . I am hoping that he has misjudged the American people and that after these 2 wars (yes remember the other one in afghanistan where you didn't catch the bad guy? )everyone knows how corrupt and manipulative this Government is, I'm not even going to give facts it all speaks for itself - I cannot understand this argument that Bush is the president of America and you must support him. It is attitudes like this - thinking that one man is bigger than your own country that gives power to people like him . I, a white man in the UK am also ready to punish my leader for his role in all of this, i hope common sense prevails in both our countries. We have been manipulated by fear and tension for too long and I for one hate that Bush and Blair have actually peddled this xenophobia and got away with it.
June 23, 2004, 8:17 a.m. CST
People say it about Moore all the time, with no proof, so I thought it was fair to say it about Dubya.
June 23, 2004, 8:18 a.m. CST
Now here is a true debate. At the end of today, June 23rd, I will tally the votes and announce the ummm... victor.
June 23, 2004, 8:45 a.m. CST
We could not have done it without ya! Honestly if it was not fo all of the ranting and raving, website making and foaming mouth attention that this movie as gotten I really doubt that it would have gotten the near one thousand theaters to Book it! Heck Its already sold out in NYC and Philly! If it was not for you guys Disney MIGHT would still have the rights to it and it would have not been released this week! There is nothing like showing the butt ugly in the right wing that will make people flock to the left like they are to Moore's film. Every time liar O'Reilly will start by saying " Im an Indipendant...Then insert trashing of the left and/or Moore here " Thats just another Cha-CHING to a cash register in a theater somewhere! ( He did wonders for Al Franken! )So Keep on Keeping on! Get as ugly as you wanna be! Call Moore fat even though im SURE your such a stud sitting there at the keyboard with your trusty bag of free-tos handy and attack the man and not the issues like a good little republican. Call your fellow Americans Traitors for doing nothing but speaking out even though you people did not have a problem with it when Clinton was Pres. Mmmm Dont your own medcine taste good?.. Ill bet it does! And help keep that press bought and paid for! If the press had been asking REAL questions then Moore would not have needed to make the film that is giving you people fits! Lord knows the more the press climbs up the GOP ass then the more people like bad ol Mike Moore will speak out! ( Hey did you know that GW's Brother Neil is now on Chinas payroll and has a fondness for Asian hookers? Or how about hottie Jeri Ryans Republican husband and the group sex? Ill Bet if they were Democrats you would Know! Huh? ) Oh and I pray to god that some of you brownshirts will be there at the theater to start shit cuase I will call every local news channel with my trusty cell phone to help give the film MORE free publicty! Thanks Agian! Keep showing the ugly and hatefull cause it will be your downfall!
June 23, 2004, 8:54 a.m. CST
So apparently this guy is going to lose shot at a Senate seat because he used to like to take Jeri to strip clubs and make her blow him while he watched the strippers. This raises an interesting question that only Jack can answer: WAS IT WORTH IT? I would have to guess "yes", but I would like to hear HIS answer.
June 23, 2004, 9:04 a.m. CST
by Triumph poops!
The one person who got it the MOST right of late in this now long, long Talkback is JWOLF who wrote "If Mr. Moore's primary goal is to get more people to the polls, I think he will succeed by encouraging an avalanche... of Republican voters." He's dead-on right. Moore's psychotic rantings and spoiled sport tantrums and boorish behavior and his total lack of truthfullness AND the fact that he's a fat ugly bastard that people would just assume shit on will only help to mobilize the right in even larger numbers AND help push more and more moderates towards Bush as they whisper under their breath, "What the fuck is WRONG with the Left? They're raving lunatics! This isn't about an election anymore, they're just a party of hate now. All because they STILL can't accept they LOST back in 2000. Who the hell could EVER trust them to run the country? They're like fucking babies." And you know what? You pathetic losers on the Left ARE fucking whiny babies. Can't wait to hear your whining for ANOTHER 4 years...
June 23, 2004, 9:06 a.m. CST
I love that every movie review penned by Harry involves the revelation that the film's subject matter has been one of his passions since birth. Perhaps instead of wasting money on whacking Moore, who's too busy listening to the din of his own voice to notice the real issues, we should kick in some bucks to get Harry serious councelling. It could help him with the "MAN IN RUBBER SUIT!" issues and all the others that must have spawned in a childhood full of Hentai and Propaganda viewing.
June 23, 2004, 9:26 a.m. CST
You have to be brain dead if you think that Bush has done even a half decent job as president. Voting that ass out of the whitehouse will benefit us all, security-wise and financially. Bush doesn't care about us, the bottom 3/4 of the country, he only cares about him and all of HIS friends getting rich off of us. I'm not endorsing Kerry but I am going to give him my vote because Bush is the WORST president this country has ever seen. As far as the film goes, haven't seen but am dying too. In my opinion it sounds like this is just counter-propoganda: counter to the usual shit we're told by the government and the scared shitless conservative media. Soon, when that texas grown dope is sent packing(and he will be), it will be us the Liberals who will saying to you: "If you don't like this country, you can get the hell out!" because America is a Liberal country at it's core.
June 23, 2004, 9:57 a.m. CST
and should have no place here thanks for ur bizarro views harry
June 23, 2004, 10:03 a.m. CST
Did someone shoot you all with a dumbass gun??!! For the love of God!!! Unbeknownst to many of you ranting fuckers, The U.S. Senate approved an amendment that increases the fine for a single indecency incident to a maximum of $3 million a DAY!! Check it out right here: http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=29015 Why did you not know about this?? Because Senator Brownback succeeded it having this amendment attached to a $447 Billion Defense Department Funding Bill! It happened right under your nose, and none of you heard about it because it was hidden and hardly any papers covered it. Think about what this means for you...do you want to revert back to the constipated 50's? Listening to Gee Wiz! and Aw Golly Gosh! bullshit to keep the truth from your virgin ears!!!??? Wake up America!!! For the sake of all that is right and true. Howard Stern has declared that as soon as Bush signs this bill, his show will be over and off the air!!! Think about what this means about your freedom of speech. This website could be shut down, you wont have a venue to spue your beliefs about movies or politics or whatever, and mark my words that is exactly what we are in for!!! This is a tragic time for all Americans at home and Abroad!
June 23, 2004, 10:03 a.m. CST
Michael Moore lies. The left knows it, they just don't care because his lies stroke their ideology. Its the political equivalent of autoerotic asphyxiation... the only problem is they are going to take the whole country with them if we are not careful. I think that the radical left in this country is actually worse than the German rank and file during WWII - at least the german people had the faint excuse that they had no news source to let them know the misdeeds of the Nazis. The far left in this country know full well that the asault on GWB and the right in general is foisted on a whore's bed of lies - but the ends justify the means, right? For the record, here is what that evil GWB has done to this country: 1) After the 9/11 attack immolated more than 3,000 people and caused billions of dollars of damages, his administration moved quickly to prevent a stock market meltdown which could well have led to another global depression. His calm public handling of the crisis was counterpointed beautifully by the firm private hand he used to convince the major trading houses not to dump stock. As a result of this, and his subsequent tax cuts, we have the most robust economy since his Dad was in office, and it has not hit the top of the curve yet. 2) The day of the attack, he took the unprecendented (and, at the time, controversial) step of shutting down the airports. This stopped the next planned wave of attacks and saved thousands of people's lives. 3) We quickly attacked Afghanistan, destroying most of Al Qaeda's support structure and leadership. 4) We then attacked Iraq, eliminating the regime that was the most likely to give the remaining Al Qaeda organization a home and support. We knew from the Russians that Iraq was already planning terrorist attacks on America and its interests abroad, the ready-made fanatics remaining from Al Qaeda (with which Iraq already had ties) would have been too good for them to pass up. If Buch had done nothing more than these three things, I would consider his presidency to be an incredible success. I did not even include the fact that he stopped the practice of free intern blowjobs in the oval office, the fact that he has restored the dignity of the Oval Office is evident to anyone who seriously looks. I sum up with a conversation I had with an 18 year old friend of my son who had anti-Bush stickers all over his car. I pressed him on why he hated Bush, and he hemmed and hawed for awhile about the war, but gave no real answers. Finally, he blurted out "Well he's just like my dad". And there you have the basis for the left's hatred of Bush... they cannot stand the idea of anyone taking a higher ground and telling them what is right and what is wrong.
June 23, 2004, 10:08 a.m. CST
Why is it alright for Conservative pundits with huge media outlets ala Hannity/O'Reiley/Limbaugh to tell us the news with their own political spins on it but its not alright for Michael Moore to do so? Both sides lie, manipulate the truth and flat out forget to tell news stories so it puts there position in a better light...why is't there a call from the Bushites to have 100% accuracy in regards to reporting the news?
June 23, 2004, 10:09 a.m. CST
It now seems like every day im being force fed anti-bush crap by this obese,ginger prick...and this review just adds to things. I once respected moore,i thought he was a voice that stood out in a countryc ran by idiots. But now,im just plain bored of al this.BORED.BORED.BORED.Bitching like mad at each other,over political views that in the end dont matter.Moore is basically a showman, who,although we all hate him,will undoubtedly get bums in seats.Which is very very sad.
June 23, 2004, 10:13 a.m. CST
by TOHO inc.
"Most documentaries, especially the best ones, have an opinion and argue for it. Even those that pretend to be objective reflect the filmmaker's point of view. Moviegoers should observe the bias, take it into account and decide if the film supports it or not." Roger Ebert Unless the Democratic Party is paying for this it's not Propaganda as I believe your inference is... It DOES qualify as wartime propaganda... The previous wartime prop in the review fits in Both... In otherwords: I don't (as far as I know) see that Moore is a tool of the Democrats... I do see that he shares much of the same opinions (kind of like Ann Coulter) and is an independent (use this word to irritate) "thinker" and "filmmaker" so I cut him way more slack. It's nice that the Rep. PR machine has to be party organized and the Dem effort is largely independent and thus disorganized. This movie I understand slams Gore right at the beginning. Look forward to it. EBERT: http://www.suntimes.com/output/eb-feature/cst-ftr-moore18.html The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda.
June 23, 2004, 10:14 a.m. CST
FFS i'd rather see u Bush lovers creaming yourselves at the wonder of his supremeness than hear another lamo say it's just propeganda ' and we should all get back to talking about fucking spiderman 2 and it's relative benefits to society and not bring politics into a discussion, I spit in the face of any lamer that just wants to have a nice little discussion about how crap alien vs predator will be and sit on the fence about something that has meaning. I'm certainly not a bush fan but ffs stand up and be counted for whatever u believe in (even though ur wrong :0)) if u don't want to talk politics why be in a forum about a political film ? now sod of back to Batman begins where u belong!
June 23, 2004, 10:16 a.m. CST
by TOHO inc.
June 23, 2004, 10:20 a.m. CST
Mr fuck for president plz
June 23, 2004, 10:23 a.m. CST
(By the way, if you are a fan of truimph the insult comic dog,read my last post and kiss his dog ass goodbye!) So Triumph Poops, I think that what you are frightened of is that someone is actually making movies that have opinions that differ from your beliefs. I dont claim to believe everything Moore says because any intelligent person would make their own judgements about what they see or read. I was raised around guns, I own a couple of guns too. Michael Moore's film did not change my mind about owning Guns, but it did help me understand to what extent we abuse guns in this country. You cannot retort with telling me that Moore lies , because quite frankly Bush does the same thing only on his end it actually affects us as a nation. To the one who said that Bush is just a figure head. You are absolutely wrong!!! Bush has the power to sign bills that can affect us emmediately!! and with the republicans running the senate, we can all be sure that another four years will turn this country into a dumb and mute country who survives solely on fast food and reality shows!
June 23, 2004, 10:24 a.m. CST
That wasn't aimed at u i was slamming people saying Harry shouldn't have brought politics into it, i wrote before i saw ur post up there.
June 23, 2004, 10:30 a.m. CST
...or something like that. All of you promoting the 'Truth About Bowling' webpage, Hitchens' review et al are as dim as the most brainless Moore promotors here. You are not going to find Sacred TRVTH in one person's screed - whether that Person be Moore, Hitchens or Bushnell. Moore HAS overstated the truth and distorted things in his previous films, and undoubtably in this one as well. His critics HAVE distorted the truth in their rebuttals. People who automatically discount EVERYTHING in this film are just as moronic as those who treat it ALL as Holy Writ. See what he has to say, then do your own investigations on the subject. Read more. Follow more links. Go to places other than the safe confines of websites which espouse your brand of dogma and read articles with a critical eye yet open mind. And keep in mind that truth is a three-edged sword...
June 23, 2004, 10:41 a.m. CST
by Fish Tank
June 23, 2004, 10:48 a.m. CST
True story: A couple years ago, my friends and I went to a little dive bar called the Bear
June 23, 2004, 11 a.m. CST
1) I ask for one documented case of the Patriot act being abused. Should it become permanent, I'll be with you shouting. But as long as it has to be renewed each year, its a necessary evil. Its saved lives. 2) Anyone who equates Moore's outright lies to the bias exhibited by the major news outlets needs their head examined. CNN/MSNBC break far left, Fox ranges from in the middle to slight right. Deal with it. But they do nto make up facts, even I, CNN hater as I am, am willing to admit that. Its the decisions what to report and the tone used that defines the media bias, not blatantly making up facts to fit an agenda like Moore (and lets throw Al Franken in here too, he's in the same fringe universe as Moore).
June 23, 2004, 11:17 a.m. CST
by Trader Groucho 2
who blithely accepts whatever crap they spew out and call news. One of our Founding Fathers said the price of liberty is eternal vigilance. Leaving the heavy lifting to the likes of Wolf Blitzer or Hannity & Combs ain't vigilance.
June 23, 2004, 11:19 a.m. CST
by Wet Soul
...nice job, big man. And just for the record, the Bushes have been corn-holing this country long enough. Someone show that slimy-eyed Dubya the door, OK? Errr, that'd be US. Get your asses out and VOTE!
June 23, 2004, 11:21 a.m. CST
PLEASE vote out Bush. It should herald the end of this opportunistic loony lefty's nauseous, kneejerk career. He has caused me far more pain than any amount of charred babies' corpses ever could. Shame on you Mr Moore. I PROMISE to kick the wanker SQUARELY in the nuts if, heaven forbid, I ever see him in person.
June 23, 2004, 11:23 a.m. CST
I'll do you one better, I think Moore is no better than a modern day Tokyo Rose, working within the US to give aid and comfort to her enemies. If it were up to me I would arrest him for treason. However, that would likely make his day.
June 23, 2004, 11:26 a.m. CST
I always feel loved when I'm rolling into a long line at the Alamo Drafthouse for a midnight show of the latest and greatest. I never realized (actually, i did) that lefties view us conservatives as criminal, evil, and more dangerous than the Taliban. It does give a certain perspective when such wacko claims are made because I know that as long as Michael Moore is willing to lie (don't even get me started on this guy) to make a cheap point, conservatives will always run the show. You see, most Americans don't buy the conspiracy theories. I guess Kerry DID earn his money the old- fashioned way...he married it. You guys should read Christopher Hitchens' piece on Moore at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5269630/ Hitchens is a full-on atheistic socialist so don't blame his article on our Republican attack machine. Well, look forward to seeing all of you conservatives-in-training (haha) at the midnight show of Spiderman 2 next week! Bush 2004!!!!!!
June 23, 2004, 11:26 a.m. CST
by Trader Groucho 2
Harry accurately points out there is a vibrant history of using film as propaganda, by all sides. The purpose of propaganda is to be persuasive, to motivate you to change your mind and act on that change. As long as you know that going in, you can as an intelligent filmgoer listen and watch and question and think. And really, it's far better to have the person presenting his views be upfront about it - whether in the work directly, or through his website and press - than to have people with very strong political perspectives masquerading as "fair and balanced".
June 23, 2004, 11:33 a.m. CST
by Fireball XL-5
Thousands and thousands of words posted here and virtually no indication
June 23, 2004, 11:35 a.m. CST
by Trader Groucho 2
Which means there are a lot of other INTERPRETATIONS out there. So it's truth, as you say, but it's truth filtered through and colored by Mel Gibson's interpretation. While it seems the majority of Christians currently take the Resurrection as a literal fact, other Christians will tell you in Acts it says the Bible is a spiritual Book containing spiritual Truths. Jesus Himself spoke frequently in parables. Why is it not possible that the Apostles credited with the Gospels would not have taken the same license? And lest you rest yourself merry in the comfort of your opinion being in the majority, I would hasten to remind you that the vast majority of Jews who actually met Jesus didn't recognize Him as their Savior. Even nine of out ten lepers He healed did not become believers (BTW, I believe in Jesus and require no literal Resurrection or miraculous event to buttress my faith. My faith is based on His Message, how His love changed people's hearts).
June 23, 2004, 11:39 a.m. CST
by God's Brother
In a society where the Right-wing is more often than not TOO far right, and the left-wing is almost always just barely left of centre, a movie like this comes along and shakes everybody up. Yes. Moore is a sensationalist. Yes he exagerates/manipulates his footage in order to make his point (he's a filmmaker for christs' sake). But he's not a "liar." The world is going to shit, and the left-wing needs to be just as extreme and radical as the right, or they're gonna get barrelled over by outdated thinking and social injustice. Not to mention missles pointing right at you from space.
June 23, 2004, 12:12 p.m. CST
Is Bush a complete criminal and/or buffoon? Of course not - but neither does he piss gold and shit roses as conservative talk radio hosts would have you believe. This documentary like every documentary ever made is slanted and based upon the bias of the film maker. Michael Moore hates GW and had dug through every trash bin he could to find evidence damning him. Staunch Bush supporters do the same thing every day with regards to Kerry, then turn on their microphones or write editorials. Both camps leave out facts that dispute their thesis and work to connect a square A to a round B with lots and lots of duct tape, then pass it off as "unquestionable truth". People have brains so that they can decide for themselves what is fact and what is fiction, then act accordingly. Unfortunately, not everyone takes full advantage of this built in filtering system before they start slinging hate at opposing viewpoints. How can any one not assume that a single family that has earned millions in the oil business, spawned two of the most powerful leaders in the world and has strong connections to the CIA cut a few corners, made a few deals and helped a few friends along the way. I don
June 23, 2004, 12:13 p.m. CST
Necessary evil?! listen to yourselves! necessary evil should not be part of American domestic policy, the Bill of Rights are unalterable!!! Fuck Bush, Fuck the Neo-Cons, and Fuck anyone who still wants to vote for him, for the sake of our way of life, stay home on election day! Mr. Fuck says it all and if any of you conservative fascists would take the time to read his post, you may start to realize what the rest of world already knows, you selfish fucks!
June 23, 2004, 12:22 p.m. CST
by Trader Groucho 2
And those are two different animals entirely. As a patriotic American, you are required to respect the office. For the exact same reason, you are required to be informed and vote and take action based on that. Watching F 9/11, reading a variety of viewpoints, debating issues with others, becoming an informed and active citizen - all of this is in the path of being a patriotic American.
June 23, 2004, 12:25 p.m. CST
by Trader Groucho 2
Harry has his bandwidth and he has an opinion. Deal.
June 23, 2004, 12:29 p.m. CST
by Trader Groucho 2
And Bush "won" Florida by having his little bro and his water-carrier Kathleen Harris disenfranchise tens of thousands of likely Gore voters (read "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy"). Now if you want to tag the Democrats as wimps for rolling over for this kind of treatment, I'm right there with you. If you want to slam the Democrats for not advocating a Constitutional Amendment to get rid of the anti-democratic Electoral College, rock on brother. In the meantime, let's keep our facts straight.
June 23, 2004, 12:38 p.m. CST
by Blok Narpin
Bush gets mine. Seriously, how can anyone vote for Kerry?
June 23, 2004, 12:38 p.m. CST
Since you ask, let me answer your question: Hannity/O'Reilly/Limbaugh are commentators, and what they are giving is THEIR opinion on the facts...they don't pass it on as "THE TRUTH" as people like Rather, Jennings, et al who actually claim to be REPORTING the news without a political slant. When they do that, they become the joke that they have become, and people start turning them off. The decline on their particular networks' viewers should give you the message...but I'm sure you will be able to ignore it.
June 23, 2004, 12:40 p.m. CST
Michael Moore dubs President Bush's voice at the end with "Crazy Fucking White People!"
June 23, 2004, 12:47 p.m. CST
by payton 34
This is just a question, I'm not attacking you, I'm just curious. Why were you fed up with Clinton? When he left office, the United States had never been stronger economically in a long long time (someone told me that it had never been stronger ever, but I'm not about to make that statement without being able to back it up). So looking past his hi-jinks, what was wrong with the man? The United States was actually viewed as a country that was trying to work with the rest of the world not own it like it is viewed now. I feel pretty safe saying that had a lot to do with Clinton. Like I said, I'm just curious. I'm not from the States and I'm always fascinated by American politics and how it divides a nation the way that it does.
June 23, 2004, 12:49 p.m. CST
"...leave the fucking politics to cnn or fox" Bwahahahahahahahaha!!! Are you really that stupid?
June 23, 2004, 12:50 p.m. CST
First off, every vote count in Florida put Bush ahead. every one. Even the ones where they were throwing out scads of mostly-republican military votes on a technicality. Even the ones where they counted every thumbnail scratch as a vote for Gore. Every one. Secondly, our public school system spent billions and educated Ted Bundy, Charles Manson and Tim McVeigh! How dare they! why didn't they realize how dangerous these people were back then and take care of the problem before anyone had to die! Geesh, even my teenagers understand this: http://www.aath.net/whatswrong
June 23, 2004, 12:56 p.m. CST
Thanks for the review of Farenheit 9-11. Michael Moore deserves serious props for this film because the backlash (in the press and political circles in particular)is going to be remarkable. But when the popular press, essentially beholden to corporate interests (which is inevitable when you depend upon advertising; you become dependant on advertisers. The same principal works for political campaign contributions as well) tells only the news they deem fit for the American people to hear, responsibilty falls on men of character to to step into the fray. And whether you like Michael Moore and his films or not, I think that it isn't debateable that he is a man of character.
June 23, 2004, 12:59 p.m. CST
Bush DID win Florida, bud. Live with it and get off the dumb, beaten-to-death, dishonest argument. Elections are decided by the Electoral College for a reason, and we were not about to change the rules because your boys in the Sore-Loserman ticket lost. And btw, if you are going to recommend a good read, try "AT Any Cost" by Washington Time correspondent Bill Sammon. It should enlighten you to find out what your boy tried to do to the American Constitution in that little debacle.
June 23, 2004, 1:01 p.m. CST
June 23, 2004, 1:02 p.m. CST
you can thank the fundamentalists in the u.s. and israel for fucking up the whole world for the rest of us. don't worry, soon enough their respective messiahs will return and they'll have no one to kill but each other! woohoo!!!!
June 23, 2004, 1:02 p.m. CST
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June 23, 2004, 1:05 p.m. CST
That "one university" you refer to here, the one where the name "escapes you" -- that wouldn't be -- uhhhhhhhhhhrrrrrmmmmm -- fucking YALE would it? Jesus Christ, is it too much to ask that you know just the smallest bit of what the fuck you're talking about before you start slinging crazy pointless bullshit around? Bush's grandad stole Geronimo's skull? What the fuck, man? Do you have ANY idea how stupid it sounds to criticize Bush's policies based on some third-hand rumours you "read or heard somewhere" about how this pseudo-frat may or may not be telling some story to it's members about some skull, especially when you can't even remember the name of "that one university"? (I guess the OTHER University whose name escapes you is Harvard). For fuck's sake, shut up. Please.
June 23, 2004, 1:06 p.m. CST
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June 23, 2004, 1:09 p.m. CST
As long as it isn't that incompentant GwB in the White House. Blocking stem cell research and abortions should be enough of a reason, even though that's just the tip of the iceberg. No more god fearing Deliverance-type banjo pickers in the White House!!!! Kerry may not be much better, but that's still better. Anyone but Bush!!! Chant it with me. And if we don't end up liking Kerry, vote his @ss out too.
June 23, 2004, 1:11 p.m. CST
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June 23, 2004, 1:25 p.m. CST
by BRING IT ON!
There are a lot of things said in custody hearings that people want to take back afterwards. Ever Jeri (his ex-wife) said she thinks he's a loving father and will make a great senator. So lay off him, ok? Bada Bing!
June 23, 2004, 1:29 p.m. CST
by Trader Groucho 2
John Kerry - real live war hero; George W. Bush - well, his military service could be summed up as "Full Dinner Jacket". John Kerry - strong supporter of veterans; George W. Bush - plans to cut veterans' benefits. John Kerry - a health care plan to reduce significantly the number of uninsured Americans; George W. Bush - you're on your own buddy. John Kerry - increase the minimum wage; George W. Bush - cut overtime pay, thereby forcing millions of Americans to work extra hours for their employers for free. John Kerry - protect the environment for future generations; George W. Bush - the Rapture's coming soon anyway, so no point in worrying about the water our grandchildren will drink and the air they'll breathe. I could go on.....
June 23, 2004, 1:34 p.m. CST
Terrorism is a threat, but Bush is not qualified to fight it. He invaded Irak believing that he would creat a moderate democractic state, that as an ally would help to stabilize the region. Good intentions George, but since you are managing exactly the opposite, you get an F in execution! **** To those who were not blinded by wishful thinking, that was not a surprise. In fact, that is the reason why Bush sr, who knew something about the world (ambassador to the UN, director of the CIA, VP), decided to allow Hussein to stay in power. ***** PEOPLE SHOULD BE CAREFUL WITH PIZZA POLITICS. It might have felt good to pay back to somebody after 9/11, but just as pizza, it hurted more than it helped. Old fashioned intelligence work, diplomacy, and economic sanctions (and incentives) taste like spinach, but in the fight against terrorism, that's what we have to eat.
June 23, 2004, 1:42 p.m. CST
June 23, 2004, 1:43 p.m. CST
by Trader Groucho 2
Is it possible Moore's new film understates the evils of the current adminstration???
June 23, 2004, 1:44 p.m. CST
June 23, 2004, 1:45 p.m. CST
People will always disagree strongly with each other. This leads to mutual hate. Is this fluffy's point? My response is that...I disagree! Yes, a friendlier community could be more easily fostered if people didn't have the resources/power they have via the internet, but isn't the main issue the abuse of power? As I understand it, the feeling is that if people had fewer information resources then they might be more humble and listen to others with more respect. I happen to agree that respecting other people's opinions is good, but I ultimately believe it should be a moral choice. It is possible to be friendly and respectful *and* disagree strongly, but this is a choice one makes. "When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man." --Clockwork Orange. Apparently around these parts few choose to be friendly. But it *can* happen. For example, there has been love between a man and a woman, where one is Catholic and the other Jewish. We've seen countless times the extent to which love can occur in the presence of ideological conflicts. Also, from personal experience my best friend and I disagree on many many things. Arguing is pretty much what we do 90% the time. But the fact is we do care when one person's feelings has been hurt, and we are sensitive to each other's personal ticks. And when we argue we don't go in expecting to change each other's minds; somehow in spite of standing conflicts we accept each other for who we are. So from personal experience, it is simply an independent choice to get along with someone. If in the end humanity does not make this choice, then so be it, for that would reflect humanity's true nature.
June 23, 2004, 2:09 p.m. CST
by Trader Groucho 2
The economy was doing far better under Clinton than either Bush. Given the same situation, it is doubtful Gore would have acted much differently with Wall Street or Afghanistan. And Gore would have gotten the UN on-board before taking out Saddam. And BTW, the issue for me isn't so much taking out Saddam - he needed to go - but that this administration has handled the conflict with such supreme incompetence. I hasten to add it's also doubtful that 9/11 would have even happened if Gore was president. Gore, at least, would have had an attorney general would have budgeted for counterterrorism.
June 23, 2004, 2:12 p.m. CST
Yet another AICN review praising Moore and bashing Bush. Everyone surprised / pleased / etc. at this please raise your hand. Now bring your hand down rapidly across your face. Repeat until unconscious. At least Harry had the decency to acknowledge this as what it is: propoganda. Oscar will have to have a new category next year.
June 23, 2004, 2:18 p.m. CST
...oh and great review Harry.
June 23, 2004, 2:18 p.m. CST
On a side note (OR IS IT???) I came across an interesting story about Charlie Chaplin
June 23, 2004, 2:24 p.m. CST
by Childe Roland
...I think you ought to go back and read a little more about your guy, Jesus. Personally, I haven't spoken to the man in years but I seem to recall from my half a lifetime studying his teachings that he wasn't so much down with the "shock and awe" or "staggering around drunkly looking for someone to hit back" as he was about turning the other cheek. If any part of the man that was Jesus (a visionary humanitarian philosopher and one of the leftist leaning liberals of all time, to be sure) is still cognizant in the universe, he's not waving an American flag right now. He's more likely weeping while his Dad shouts vainly at deaf Christian conservatives: "What part of 'Thou shalt not kill!' did you NOT fucking understand?"
June 23, 2004, 2:32 p.m. CST
by joe brady
is up with conservative talkbackers adopting the "Darth" prefix? Are they willingly taking on a title that's meant to conjure up images of imperialism, even fascism? Because if so, that would be just perfect.
June 23, 2004, 3:27 p.m. CST
That's not saying much considering Harry "enjoys the Hell of of" three bags of Chips Ahoy, 2 bags of generic cheetos and a two litre of Mountain Dew every morning before breakfast...
June 23, 2004, 3:29 p.m. CST
That's not saying much considering Harry "enjoys the Hell out of" three bags of Chips Ahoy, 2 bags of generic cheetos and a two litre of Mountain Dew every morning before breakfast...
June 23, 2004, 3:29 p.m. CST
by AICN fanboy dork
Wow, talk about going past the bottom of the barrel. I wonder if putting his picture next to "loser" in the dictionary would break any obscenity laws.
June 23, 2004, 3:34 p.m. CST
The good part is that John Kerry's chances of being elected will go into the crapper two minutes into his first debate. The guy stands for nothing or no one. Such a good stance for a country in the middle of it's largest war in the history. If Kerry gets elected I an joining the NRA and building a bombshelter as we are all going to DIE!!! The dick will disband the miltary and let his terriorst friends walk the streets of the US. Moore should be deported from the US. Kick the fucking Canadian out!!!
June 23, 2004, 3:40 p.m. CST
If you are so far removed from the political centre that you can
June 23, 2004, 3:43 p.m. CST
I've seen some pretty rough things said on these talkbacks before but by far the most heated discussions ar over politics. So this is my attempt as an idealistic liberal to describe the left's position to you without being sarcastic, demeaning, or hateful. First of all I really do think in the end we all want the same thing, most Americans have a very similair view of what a good life is, the problem is we don't agree on how to get there. Enter politicians and political pundits. They know what you want (they spend millions to find out) and they try their best to make you believe they are the person to give it to you and so begins the race to the bottom with the left and right constantly trying to strike down the other side's ideas rather than let their opinions stand and be judged by their own merits. We on the left are just as guilty (if not more so, for allowing ourselves to move so far to the center). Now I can't speak for all liberals but I can give you my ideas and views about Bush and the Conservative ideology. Liberals, I think, are skeptics by nature. We have the habit of questioning authority and we often don't buy into an idea without some sort of proof (not to say conservatives blindly believe anything they are told.) However the reasoning behind some conservative thinking finds its base in the Bible. While it is a very useful book I personally do not take it as the word of God verbatum and therefore prefer to use more current references to justify arguments. And while all conservatives do not base their political roots in the bible, the idea of "morality" does often play a major role. This is one of the most perplexing parts of conservatism to me, because I find George Bush to be far from a moral person. If he feels as justified in his actions as his supporters do then why not be more forthcoming and honest with us? I don't think he is evil by any measure, he is trying to do the right thing, but he and more importantly the people he has surrounded himself with (members of the Republican establishment) are going about it the wrong way. While we may not be completely in the right we have (or at least had) the moral high ground. By basically stooping to the level of our enemies, (weasling around the Geneva conventions, killing civilians, alienating our allies) we push ourselves into a gray area that no longer affords us the protection of being seen as the good guys. What happens when America fights another war and our violations of the Geneva Conventions come back to haunt our soldiers. We agree with you that Sadaam was evil, you don't have to remind us, but when Bush campaigns on the pretense that he does not believe in using the military for nation building and then uses it for his backup reasoning for starting a war, it comes of a little shady. When i think of Bush I don't see a strong commander in chief I see a guy with lots of people with their own ideas in his ear being steered in the wrong direction. Even if we were to grant the adminstration the excuse of honest mistakes on: the Iraq Al-Qaeda link (which Cheney continues to support), the inaccurate Niger intelligence, Sadaam's WMD program, and Iraq's troubled future, doesn't it make you a little uneasy to see so many mistakes made without even really owning up to them but instead dodging responsibilty and pointing fingers? Granted if Kerry is elected he will make mistakes, my hope is that he will be much better in handling them. Liberals see conservatives today as a group in fear, not only of terrorism, but of finding out that this guy they've put all their faith in isn't all they thought he was. Doesn't anyone remember how we used to make jokes about Bush's foreign policy knowledge and how he couldn't pronounce names or places? John Kerry served on the Senate Intelligence committe but for some reason you guys see Bush as the person better suited to go out into the world and protect us. To me it seems like flawed logic. This is a plea to seriously reconsider your view of our president. Give him an honest evaluation across the board and don't just dismiss the criticism as liberal bitterness or jealousy because we are genuinely concernced about our country just like you.
June 23, 2004, 3:53 p.m. CST
http://www.citypages.com/databank/24/1179/article11370.asp That's all you really need to know.
June 23, 2004, 3:55 p.m. CST
when is Harry's Review For Spiderman 2 going to be up the fat fucker had his review for Episode 2 a good month and a half before that shit fest was reviewed by anyone. oh wait is he working on his Shit fest Ghost Town or maybe the King of Mars thing which mister El Mariachi Director cant direct now um is that thing dead in the water . anyways Harry wheres the Spiderman 2 review already i dont care your a moronic liberal idiot just give me my damn Spiderman i want it NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
June 23, 2004, 3:56 p.m. CST
June 23, 2004, 3:57 p.m. CST
My problem with Moore is that what he presents as fact is often just rumor or edited information changed to fit his definition of the world. I think a lot of people don't understand that most of the news out there, Moore aside, is in some way propaganda or biased--what we see is opinion rather than fact in a lot of cases. I also think that people ignore the facts about many things in their blind and ignorant hatred of Bush and his administration. I didn't like Clinton, and I don't agree with everything Bush has done, but in neither case did I feel the unbalanced rage exhibited in this film and in many other places in the media. Vote, yes; go out there and voice your opinion, whatever it may be, but do so based on real facts and evidence, not the clouded judgments presented to us in the media.
June 23, 2004, 4:07 p.m. CST
by The JackBULL
June 23, 2004, 4:18 p.m. CST
"My problem with Moore is that what he presents as fact is often just rumor or edited information changed to fit his definition of the world" -a_smile Sounds like the Bush administration justifying war to me.
June 23, 2004, 4:29 p.m. CST
by its all real!
WE ARE AT WAR - save the second guessing 'til it's over - no-one owes you anything - shut the fuck up - Michael Moore was a great filmmaker, now hes' a hack - a tool of the DNC. All of you need to grow up, shut up and thank GOD you live in a free country! - If you doubt it's free, visit the middle east, we watch your beheading online - stupid fuckers.
June 23, 2004, 4:40 p.m. CST
WAKE UP! Open your eyes and look around you. The Bush administration is DESTROYING this country. Not just the wars, but the envrionment, the economy and our rapidly unraveling civil rights. How is it remotely possible that people still support this man when the facts are out there? It makes no sense whatsoever. The rest of the world can see it clearly, why can't you? Quit bashing Moore and actually listen to what he is saying. Do some basic research of your own and stop being so blindly partisan. WAKE UP!!!
June 23, 2004, 5 p.m. CST
What rights has Bush destroyed? What environmental destruction has Bush wrought in 3 years? What civil rights has he taken? Look, stop getting overly emotional. If you want to complain that Bush cuts taxes...fine. If you want to complain that Bush's strategy of pre-emption is wrong...fine. If you don't like the the Patriotic Act...fine. But PLEASE stop jumping into bed with the conspiracy theorists everytime Bush breathes. You guys sound insane and, for the sake of your party (read: Dems) I hope you can get a grip. People are afraid to let you lead when you sound off-kilter due to your fanatical rantings. Argue your points and stand by your arguments. I happen to think tax cuts are great...even for the rich. It IS our money. If you want to volunteer to pay more taxes, knock yourself out. i happen to think pre-emptive action is justified in some cases. Was Iraq a mistake? I think Iraq is in for a rough time, but it is still better than Saddam. BTW, how many democracies are there in the Middle East...??? One. Israel. I haven't been losing rights left and right under the Patriot act. In fact, nothing in my life has changed. Of course, if I was building bombs in my garage I'd be screaming bloody murder about Bush stealing my rights. But...I do hate the longer lines at airports. As for civil rights, i am not even going to entertain this idea. We all know that the cheap argument of "all republicans are racists/nazis" is not going away. Why? Because dumb people believe dumb things. Just buy your tickets to Spidey 2, have a Coke, smile and shut the %$#@ up.
June 23, 2004, 5:03 p.m. CST
by Electric Tsunami
***** Moore film distributor OK with terror support - Exec says firm doesn't want to risk boycott of 'Fahrenheit 9/11' in Mideast ****** http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39079
June 23, 2004, 5:09 p.m. CST
by Electric Tsunami
That is Michael Moore's goal in the war in Iraq: "I oppose the U.N. or anyone else risking the lives of their citizens to extract us from our debacle...the majority of Americans supported this war once it began and, sadly, that majority must now sacrifice their children until enough blood has been let that maybe -- just maybe -- God and the Iraqi people will forgive us in the end." (Michael Moore - April 14, 2004)
June 23, 2004, 5:10 p.m. CST
motherfuckers are stressed...CHEERS Amigos!
June 23, 2004, 5:32 p.m. CST
Bush's tax cuts were just misdirection. That $300 or so tax credit you got (I wouldn't know I didn't get it) did nothing to boost our economy because people just paid it back once their states lost federal funding which meant rises in property taxes, public college tuition (where many middle class Americans go), cuts in public services, etc. If Bush really wanted to put money in the pockets of the average American he would cut payroll taxes and give family's a little extra money to pay for gas or food. Now if you live off of a trust fund or dividends from your stock good for you, Bush has made your bottom line a little greener. One talckbacker said our economy hasnt been this strong since the last Bush was in office. If booming economies set record deficits two years in a row then you are correct. We have record highs in bankruptcies and debt but people think things are going great. What happens when the fed has to raise interest rates again?? Who needs real economic growth for the middle class when we can give the rich more money and hope it makes it back down to the people below. I can't comprehend how people can be so selfish and self-serving. Your tax dollars go towards invaluable programs to help the dark underbelly of this country that you choose to ignore. Of course I'll probably be dismissed as a liberal hippy with lofty dreams of making the world a better place. Maybe we should just bomb our poor people, thats how you make their lives better . . . right???? No one is asking for handouts but why not give a small portion of giving people the means to succeed. Bring education under federal control, that way the child in the projects gets just as good an education as the kid in the sub-urbs. Bush uses rhetoric and posturing to make you feel good about yourselves, personally I just get sick to my stomach.
June 23, 2004, 5:35 p.m. CST
Except for Ending Slavery, Fascism, Nazism, and Communism, War Has NEVER Solved Anything! Stop The Vicious Spread of Wealth Creation! - VOTE GREEN!! - and let's all be poor and miserable equally!
June 23, 2004, 5:39 p.m. CST
You have your head in the sand. Deep. Bush had GUTTED environmental regulations. Put people in charge of regulating from the industries they are supposed to regulate. Civil Rights? How about the Patriot Act I and II? How about supporting writing discrimination into our CONSTITUTION? Passing legislation that encourages censorship. Telling American the "need to watch what they say". Sending directives to government organizations (NASA and the US Forest Service to name 2) forbidding them from discussing budget cuts or other issues with the and instructing them on how to spin the issue or be terminated. Detaining suspects for months without charges or access to legal counsel. Not to mention the economy, more lost jobs than any administration, gas prices, Social Security, Medicare, tax cuts for corporations and the super rich and a escalating 300 billion dollar + deficit. Then there are 2 invasions, war crimes against prisoners, hundreds of Americans dead, thousands injured, thousands of Afganis and Iraquis dead, our world reputation destroyed, no-bid contracts to Haliburton, billions of dollars spent, civilians beheaded, still no Osama bin Laden and al Quada is stronger than ever. I could go on and on. This is the tip of a big iceberg and not a paranoid rant. If you want a rant, look at some of the choice post from some of the "conservatives" on this board. I don't think most of them really know what that term (or the term liberal) really means. Either you have no clue or no common sense or both.
June 23, 2004, 5:40 p.m. CST
www.tccandler.com reports that this is the MOST IMPORTANT POLITICAL FILM EVER MADE!!!
June 23, 2004, 5:43 p.m. CST
This is a 40%/40% divided country. Each other think the other side is just a bunch of brainwashed morons while the other 20% of us laugh at you both for ALL your tirades of self-importance and belief imposing over civil discourse. "Do Something"??? How lame. That something might even be re-electing Bush. This is just a movie...and only people who suffer from delusions or granduer believe it can change the nation or the world...Grow up people. That said, I can't wait to see this. I like Michael Moore. I Like Rush Limbaugh I like Al Franken I like Ann Coulter I like Michael Savage I like Ted Rall I like to be entertained. That is what all this is. People who only read one side of the issues can not possibly be able to understand their own position, much less defend it properly, unless they know what people who oppose that position believe. War is bad, but I am NOT going to get worked up about what happens half way around the world to people who die or get dismembered...How is that different than what happens here in America? 9/11, crime rates, etc??? The world is a bad place...do your best to survive and laugh at the rest. Vote all you like, but don't get too worked up if the outcome of the elections...We have the best country and no one administration can destroy it. And don't hate people with whom you disagree about politics. That is stupid. I can't wait for this film and "Michael Moore Hates America".
June 23, 2004, 6:17 p.m. CST
You idiots are all the same. You all want to preach how bad Bush is and how bad the war in Iraq is with so substantially analysis to back it up. Just your uninformed and undereducated opinions, but then opinions are like a-holes. Stick to telling us how great you thought Hellboy was and leave the real thinking alone for the safety of everyone. And on that note, remember that Michael Moore directed Canadian Bacon, how can you take his opinions seriously. He is obviously a tool of the Canadian government to pull the United States into a new civil war in which they will invade and make us all speak french and dress like mimes.
June 23, 2004, 6:19 p.m. CST
Where is my spell check when I need it.
June 23, 2004, 6:22 p.m. CST
by phil dearly
June 23, 2004, 6:22 p.m. CST
since you're so brilliant, tell us "idiots" why Bush is so great?
June 23, 2004, 6:27 p.m. CST
by phil dearly
June 23, 2004, 6:30 p.m. CST
by phil dearly
June 23, 2004, 6:36 p.m. CST
by phil dearly
AMERICANS Sorry to have to break this to you, but the U.S. and Israel are responsible for the attacks of 9/11! Silverstein's insurance scam, the fact that the Twin Towers needed to be demolished anyway because of flawed construction techniques, the zillions to be made in shrewd investments guaranteed by the foreknowledge of destruction, and a sure way to defame Muslims permanently as an excuse to steal their oil, Condaleeza Rice calls the mayor of San Francisco and tells him not to fly on 9/11! Not one Israeli citizen died in those towers, not one. Wake the fuck up! ZIONISTS Let
June 23, 2004, 6:41 p.m. CST
by phil dearly
Get ready for Armageddon! Moon Over Washington Why are some of the capital
June 23, 2004, 6:45 p.m. CST
by phil dearly
June 23, 2004, 6:45 p.m. CST
Michael Moore is an Imbletard. <a href="http://www.michaelmoore.com/"target="_blank">I am a giant Imbletard!</a>
June 23, 2004, 6:48 p.m. CST
by phil dearly
http://www.voxfux.com/features/stranger_than_fiction.htm Read for yourselves!!! "Condemantion without investigation is the height of ignorance" -Einstein
June 23, 2004, 6:49 p.m. CST
Or misleads, same diff. His Hitchens quotes are taken from an article that BASHES Moore's new "documentary." Reading Sidious-1138's posts, you would think Hitchens was passing out brochures to go see the movie. Link here, for Hitchens' real take on the movie: http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/ Liberals have no shame when it comes to misquoting and quoting out of context. It's only fitting that Sidious should do it in support of a film that is doing the same thing. Anyone who believes in the lies of "Fahrenheit 9/11" has no sense of, or respect for, history and truth. I'm not seeing this insult to celluloid. Anyone with brains will join me. Harry's got none left, apparently, since he subscribes so fully to this "1984"-style rewriting and editing of history.
June 23, 2004, 6:52 p.m. CST
I did not say Bush was great but he is not the evil retarded ender of the world that people make him out to be. I am just saying that form an informed opinion before you spout off. Yes he is not a good public speaker but lets face it, the president is a puppet anyway. El Nuevo Mundo Orden I just don't like when people spout off about politics, like the propogation of the lie that the Bush administration wanted to reimplement the draft when in reality it was a democrat who introduced the bill. P Wake up sheep and fall in line. The Monkey Army is rising and you shall be smashed beneath our paws.
June 23, 2004, 6:57 p.m. CST
by phil dearly
http://www.notbored.org/wtc.html (excerpt):........"In New York City, obsolete buildings are infrequently saved, whatever their historical or architectural interest. Most often, they are simply torn down and replaced. The only thing that saved the Twin Towers from demolition was the fact that they were filled with asbestos, which would be released into the air if the buildings were destroyed by controlled explosions. In 2000, the Port Authority calculated that it would cost $1 billion -- i.e., much more money than the Port Authority could afford to spend -- to remove the asbestos before the buildings were destroyed. And so the Port Authority was stuck with the Twin Towers, that is, until 26 April 2001, when it found a consortium of business interests (Westfield America, led by Larry Silverstein, the owner of the building at 7 World Trade Center) that was willing to lease the property. Supposed to last for 99 years, the $3.2 billion lease mandated that the Port Authority continue to pay taxes on the property. "This is a dream come true," Silverstein said at the 23 July 2001 celebration of the lease's signing. "We will be in control of a prized asset, and we will seek to develop its potential, raising it to new heights.".............................. Interesting, but remember the overwhelming evidence that suggests that the U.S. along with Israel orchestrated the attacks of 9/11. Also, interesting to note, Larry Silverstein (a zionist), the owner of the towers, bought them only weeks before the attacks.
June 23, 2004, 7 p.m. CST
by phil dearly
The duty to put one's country and its people first should be inscribed on the hearts and minds of every elected official. Instead, our politicians are pledging allegiance to a foreign nation at the expense of its own citizens. Billions of dollars in foreign aid to Israel is but one part of the multifaceted Jewish support system in Washington. More disconcerting is their public expression of devotion to Israel and domestic Jewish causes, rather than the true patriotic love for one's own country as revealed in a healthy nationalism. Barely a week goes by without the introduction or passage of legislation relating to Israel. "Dear colleague" letters are circulated continuously among congressmen urging for more support and foreign aid to this small country in the Middle East. Public requests for the president to support and increase Israel's position in the international community are commonplace. This is nothing new however in the American political arena. Every president since Truman has given support to Israel in varying degrees, and most representatives in Congress are on the payroll of various pro-Israel pressure groups - Democrats and Republicans. Each understands that critical opposition of Israel is political suicide. At the same time, almost unanimously, the international community, including some of our strongest historical allies, condemns Israeli governmental policy in the Middle East. It is truly becoming Israel and America against the world, a battle that we are unlikely to win. In October 2003, at an international conference attended by 57 countries, including Russia, the prime minister of Malaysia openly and unapologetically declared, "Jews are so powerful they rule the world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them." This speech created quite a stir in the halls of U.S. Congress, and leaders there quickly drafted two resolutions: 1. H. Res 409 - repudiating the statement, which passed 411-0 2. S. Res 247 - urging the president to "condemn the anti-Semitic sentiments expressed by Dr. Mahathir Mohamad, the outgoing Prime Minister of Malaysia." Unfortunately, our representatives missed an important and extremely relevant point. As they drafted resolutions condemning free speech (wherever it is found), they failed to notice the standing ovation Dr. Mohamad received, including from Vladimir Putin. Indeed, the world approved and endorsed his statement, while American politicians feverishly engaged in activity to appease lobbying groups, rather than understanding why the world sees things so much differently and - on this matter, anyway - much more clearly. America should not necessarily cave in to international pressure or adopt the beliefs of the international community for the sake of belonging, which would contradict the spirit of nationalism, but we should try to understand the position of the international community, if only in an attempt to check the rightness of our own government's decisions. It is possible, and I believe accurate, in this case, that the world sees America's relationship to Israel for what it really is: a marriage to a terrorist state with hegemonic aspirations in the Middle East and abroad. Israeli foreign policy is proving devastating if not fatal for America, in terms of American lives and treasure. But more distressing is the subtle and gradual erosion of liberties in our homeland spawned by the rise of what I will call Jewish supremacy - as witnessed by the actions of America's bought politicians and their Zionist speech writers. Fortunately, American citizens still have the right to purchase materials and literature that many in Washington find unacceptable, offensive or "hate speech," information that often promotes truth and leads to enlightenment. How long this will continue remains to be seen. Censorship in this country takes on a different dimension of its own as opposed to the direct elimination of specific forms of speech. If a citizen is courageous enough to speak out, he still has the right to do so, but at his own risk. Many will endure pressure from different sources and in different ways, which silences many individuals nonetheless. This is the pressure fear. In America, the threat of losing a job or a career proves effective at quieting those who speak out. The threat of boycotts against businesses and media outlets or a flood of angry callers to a dissident politician is usually sufficient. American politicians understand how the media can derail their aspirations in government, thus the public often finds them glorifying pro-Israeli issues. For example, when the two presidential candidates are juxtaposed, one finds the wording of their speeches nearly identical, with only a small emphasis on various issues that may differentiate them from their opponent. In a recent speech given at the annual conference of the American Israel Public Affairs committee, President Bush nuzzled up to this powerful lobbying group and read his scripted statement while declaring, "The United States is strongly committed, and I am strongly committed, to the security of Israel as a vibrant Jewish state ... we have a duty to expose and confront anti-Semitism, wherever it is found. ... You understand that anti-Semitism is not a problem of the past." Considering the numerous applauses the president received in his speech, it is obvious that those in attendance were more than grateful for his servitude. However, in this same speech, the president acknowledges the grip that AIPAC has on Washington and Israeli foreign policy and shockingly thanks them for it. "For more than 50 years, the United States and Israel have been steadfast allies. AIPAC is one of the reasons why. By defending the freedom and prosperity and security of Israel, you're also serving the cause of America. ... I know there are buses outside waiting to take you to Capitol Hill. ... There's over 500 meetings scheduled with members of the Senate and the House. That is good news. I'm sure you're going to pass this message on to them: A free, prosperous and secure Israel is in this nation's national interest. In Washington and beyond, AIPAC is calling attention to the great security challenges of our time. ... You've spoken out on the threat posed by Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons." Yes, you read that right; he said Iran not Iraq. Is there any wonder who's next on Washington's hit list? And just to make sure that the pressure groups and the coffers they maintain understand that both Republicans and Democrats serve them without restraint or hesitation, Sen. John Kerry proclaims unashamedly, when speaking to the Anti-Defamation League, "What ADL stands for is what I would like to fight for. ... The people of Israel should also know that for the entire 20 years that I have been in the United States Senate, I'm proud that my commitment to a secure Jewish state has been unwavering; not even by one vote or one letter or one resolution has it wavered. The security of Israel is paramount." Yet as the feet of campaign financiers are drooled upon, journalists and opinion writers are taking a different course of action - most of them outraged by the Jewish neo-conservative braintrust that pushed for the Iraq war. It is people in the media that U.S. officials and their allegiance to groups like AIPAC will move to censor. But traditional strategies at censoring are beginning to lose their effectiveness. There is a new stirring in Washington that looks very similar to a dark storm approaching over the horizon. The first winds were felt on April 28, 2004, in a bill submitted to Congress by Rep. Tom Lantos (D) California - the #4 ranking beneficiary of pro-Israel PAC money for 2004 according to the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. The bill, known officially as HR 4230 - the 2004 Global Anti-Semitism Awareness Act - states as its intended purpose: "To authorize the establishment within the Department of State of an Office to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism, to require inclusion in annual Department of State reports of information concerning acts of anti-Semitism around the world, and for other purposes." With 31 individual cosponsors, the bill will create a monitoring division within the Department of State, not just for alleged anti-Semitic acts that occur in the U.S., but across the world. The bill continues, "It is the sense of Congress that - (1) the United States should continue to vigorously support efforts to combat anti-Semitism worldwide through bilateral relationships and interaction with international organizations; (2) the United States delegation to the OSCE conference in Berlin should advocate for the appointment of a High Commissioner on anti-Semitism; (3) the president should direct the United States ambassador to the United Nations to introduce in the most appropriate forum in the United Nations a measure condemning anti-Semitism; (4) the Secretary of State should establish a permanent office in the Department of State to monitor and combat anti-Semitism; and (5) the Department of State should thoroughly document acts of anti-Semitism and anti-Semitic incitement that occur around the world." Of utmost importance is the word in the last sentence: incitement. As our cousins across the Atlantic in Europe know all to well, incitement often leads to incarceration and prison sentences. As most European countries and Canada have laws against incitement, it is long overdue, apparently, for America to join the other nations and their coalition against freedom of speech and expression. Journalists, reporters, book publishers, scholars, academics, etc. who may offer a critical argument against Israeli foreign policy are sure to be counted as those in violation of incitement. For certain, HR 4230 lacks any real teeth when dealing with penalties and punishment. But as millions if not billions of dollars are spent policing the world for anti-Semitism, one would be hard pressed to not think that the penalty phase will eventually follow. I am not sure if this is the first official attempt of the U.S. government to monitor actions of people around the world that they consider anti-Semitic, but as I conclude this series, I am left with an unsettling feeling that I can
June 23, 2004, 7 p.m. CST
Meet the Flint-drone: Everybody knows Moore is a blue-collar guy from Flint, Mich., right? That's how he always sells himself. In reality, he was born and raised in the wealthy, lily-white town of Davison, Mich, the authors reveal. No wonder the clown prince of self-loathing developed such a complex about hating rich, stupid white males. -------------- http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/6/23/165945.shtml
June 23, 2004, 7:04 p.m. CST
Dang Jews are the cause of all discount shopping.....
June 23, 2004, 7:08 p.m. CST
I was wondering when someone would notice. All of the Moore bashers were quoting that review like it was the gospel truth and the only review out there, when in fact the movie has recieved overwhelmingly positive reviews from the top critics. And I didn't lie, Hitchen's DID say those exact things and WAS praising Moore at that point.
June 23, 2004, 7:10 p.m. CST
I think that Michael Moore does love America, and he doesn't like the way the rest of the world sees his country right now. You can argue all you want about how American's feel about Bush Jr., but the fact of the matter is there isn't a country in the world with whose population GWB has a positive opinion of your president. I'm Canadian - here he has a 12% approval rating. I know that most of Americans don't give a tinker's cuss about what other countries think about your president, but (and what Michael Moore understands) is that you should. What good is it being the world's only superpower (congratulations on that by the way) if the world doesn't trust your leaders? If there is another threat down the way, and America leads the charge, don't you think that everyone else will be a little bit wary to follow someone who is seen as a liar? Michael Moore understands (IMHO) that the America that you love is in danger of losing it's position as the moral authority of the world. The Abu Ghriab scandal has put a serious dent in that role (BTW FoxNews keeps wondering why people keep talking about it - because the rest of the world is - most outside of America don't thnk it was a few 'rougue soldiers'). The very fact that Bush has lied so much, and has pushed his neoconservative view further and further, all the while trying to bully the world into following him into Iraq has already eroded the massive amount of goodwill that existed after the 9/11 attacks. People empathasised and felt sorry for America then - now you are feared and the world is wary. I know that this post won't change anyones mind on the election, but for those but I ask that America seriously consider how it wants to be viewed by the rest of the world. It does matter.
June 23, 2004, 7:23 p.m. CST
The opinon of the rest of the world DOES matter and we should listen. Anyone that has traveled abroad in the last couple of years knows how the world views Bush and America. It's not good. It's pretty sad that we are advised to identify ourselves as Canadian for our own protection. I think some of the people here can't see the forest for the trees.
June 23, 2004, 7:32 p.m. CST
Last time I was here I was flamed to death by pointing out a lot of liberals these days were anti-semetic, Nazi, Jew haters. Now I come back and these same people who flamed me post all kinds of links, and write all kinds of detestable posts about how Jews are evil. Some liberals hate Jews and Bush. That's your platform now? You Hitler loving free speech, hating facist Nazi liberals. Is this a new thing? And you dare accuse many Republicans of this? You've been exposed now you haters. That is all I read here. Hate Bush and Jews. Wow, I guess I was right. You can't have it both ways you weirdo sect of 'liberals'. You can't hate Jews and flame me for pointing it out at the same time. You Nazi's. Ha ha ha ha!!! Caught ya! Drop your racist, facist, hatred...you are WORSE than some Republicans. You are making REAL liberals look very, very bad.
June 23, 2004, 7:36 p.m. CST
June 23, 2004, 7:42 p.m. CST
But we all know that racism, homophobia and anti-semeticism are the proud hallmarks of the neo-con. Hey, the BIBLE says so!
June 23, 2004, 7:58 p.m. CST
by Electric Tsunami
Perhaps Axis Mikey should have called it "The Eternal Bush": http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0156524/
June 23, 2004, 8:18 p.m. CST
OK...OK, let's go through this...one inane babble at a time. 1. I don't even like sand, I am careful to keep my head out of it at all times. 2. Gutting environmental regulations is a pretty serious charge. Is it fair to argue that Bush relaxed regulations? Sure. Your problem is that ANY relaxation of those rules is seen as "destroying the environment". It speaks to my point that you are a ranting loon. Stop watching the Day After Tomorrow. 3. Bush did not vote on P1 or P2. You must be really pissed at all those civil rights-hating Dems in Congress about now? BTW, what specific rights have YOU lost? 4. Banning gay marriage is not discrimination. If you are so open to redefining marriage, then I suppose you support incestuous marriages, too...RIGHT? Who are you to start drawing lines as to who can and can't get married? I AM willing to draw and line...and defend it. 5. Fining obscene material is well within the authority of the FCC. If you are so open-minded, then you must be outraged that porn is not on prime-time? Why not kiddie porn? If you want to erase the lines of decency, you'd better be ready to defend it. Slippery slope...6. The economy is the best it's been in years. Look at the numbers. Never mind 9/11, right? And we had better be extra special nice to those guys on Gitmo. We might hurt their feelings...boohoo. 7. Your closing flourish is especially amusing...let's see: tax cuts are good (I am not rich and I got one!), deficits happen in war, we DID invade Afghanistan and Iraq (I know, I know, we should have been nicer to the bad guys and they would just leave us all alone in peace...right?), prisoners were abused (but the WH did NOT give the orders...read the papers), people DO die in wars, our world rep is NOT destroyed (I would guess France and Germany would love us if they were cutting in on the oil contracts...), no-bid contracts are quite common in gov't, al Queda is NOT stronger than ever (I don't know where that came from...just kooky), and finally...yes, sometimes my fellow conservatives can post inappropriate things and I apology on their behalf. In the end, you are wrong, but the great thing is that in America you have the freedom to be as wrong as you like. I will be too busy oppressing the poor, polluting the water and spending my tax cuts to post anything else on this thread. So...the board is all yours. ps....Steve Chase DOES believe in the old addage Kill or Be Killed (does ANYBODY get that??)
June 23, 2004, 8:41 p.m. CST
http://www.slate.com/id/2102723 http://www.slate.com/id/2102723 http://www.slate.com/id/2102723
June 23, 2004, 8:55 p.m. CST
by BRING IT ON!
June 23, 2004, 9:06 p.m. CST
It's disheartening that so much of what Moore tauts in the film as "earth shattering" news about our Little King George isn't already known by everyone already, but since the house slaves don't revolt or pay attention to what's going on around them they deserve the misery that is visited upon them. However, what angers me about LKG isn't what I already know (a combat evading, coked out, finanically challenged, academically unremarkable and angry at being a spineless lackey to his spook father), it's that he's elevated a familial pissing contest into a half a trillion dollar game of "whack-a-mole" and turned our intelligence operations into public spectacle. This is a man who has lived his entire life in the shadow of his father and is seethingly angry about it, to the point of taking us to where we are presently. This is much more than just the dickwaving contest between the Bushes and their former cold war and business partners that have evolved into the heavily armed wandering monsters whose actions interrupt my downloading of internet porn. Actually, this crap is so old and so often repeated in our history one loses the will to complain. Both Bush and Moore are idiots, but I'd rather be subject to Moore's idealistic naivety than Bush's festering theologically driven abomination of a vision of America.
June 23, 2004, 10:06 p.m. CST
Hitchens is being sarcastic--his point is that EVERYONE knows America is capitalist, politicians spin the truth, et cetera. These are not "astounding and hidden" things. In context, it means that Moore is pointing out what everybody already knows--that Bush is not the most eloquent orator of our times. Hitchens is underlining that Moore is not being courageous, or helpful, in pointing out facts that are already general knowledge. The full quote follows, so you can see it in context: "I have already said that Moore's film has the staunch courage to mock Bush for his verbal infelicity. Yet it's much, much braver than that. From Fahrenheit 9/11 you can glean even more astounding and hidden disclosures, such as the capitalist nature of American society, the existence of Eisenhower's "military-industrial complex," and the use of "spin" in the presentation of our politicians. It's high time someone had the nerve to point this out. There's more. Poor people often volunteer to join the army, and some of them are duskier than others. Betcha didn't know that."
June 23, 2004, 10:12 p.m. CST
An interesting quote from Hitchens' same article, that you might want to consider in future when quoting someone: "By the same token, if I write an article and I quote somebody and for space reasons put in an ellipsis like this (
June 23, 2004, 10:18 p.m. CST
yet you ignore the fact that with the popularity of Fox News and the Conservative radio machines, more and more people fail to realize that they are opinion shows and instead take them at face. My opinion is that the Fox News Network shouldn't even be classified as a news network as the majority of their programming Cavuto/Gibson/O'Reiley/Hannity and Colmes are all opinion shows and not based on unbiased fact. They should preface each of these shows by saying that the following programs are the opinions of the commentators and not the opinions of the network. Say what you want about the big three (who do lean liberal) but they are nowhere near as opinionated as any of the FOX opinion shows or any of the neo-con talk radio shows. Do they lean liberal; sure but at least I can watch their nightly programs without hearing some commentator speak about how John Kerry can do no right and George Bush can do no wrong. I think that conservatives find bias in the media alright as long as it suits them.
June 23, 2004, 10:22 p.m. CST
by Big Dumb Ape
Yes, Gore won the popular vote by about a half million, but the point I was responding to (which even you bring up) is that it's fucking pathetic whenever people on the Left keep saying Bush was "selected" or that Jeb Bush or the Supreme Court handed the oval office to Bush. EVERY recount done after the 2000 election -- including recounts conducted by consortiums of major news organizations -- have ALL proven again and again that Bush won Florida fairly. In fact, had the standards for recounting votes and hanging chads and all that other bullshit that Gore wanted implemented actually been used, Bush's margin of victory would have TRIPLED. So the whole debate about Bush winning Florida is moot -- he won, period. Even counting the votes "the Gore way" Bush won. And talk about disenfranchising people (as you brought up), let's not even go there lest we discuss Gore and the Left's bullshit attempts to have military votes discounted. So that brings us to the Electoral College which you bewilderingly declared "anti-democratic." Sorry, buddy, but the Electoral College is democracy in action and serves a mighty purpose. Legal phrase for you to learn: Tyranny of the majority. THAT'S what the Electoral College was SPECIFICALLY created to prevent. So that something like a Presidential election WOULDN'T become an Al Gore-like popularity contest, where one geographical section of the country (ie. more populous states over smaller ones) could perpetually dominate and dictate to everyone else in the country. Sorry, but the Electoral College is a brilliant implementation that our forefathers put in there and I'd beat the shit out of any Democrat (or Republican for that matter) who backed a constitutional amendment advocating it's overturn. It needs to stay put just as it is. It's a safeguard that the election process needs. The bottom line, no matter how you slice it, is that Gore knew the rules going in. Problem was, he lost fair and square and then sorry assed, whiny liberals tried to go to court to change the rules AFTER the fact to rewrite them simply to get their way. Thankfully, the Supreme Court bitchslapped them back into the real world. Truth be told, if a fuck-up like Gore had simply carried and won his OWN HOME STATE of Tennesse we wouldn't even be arguing these things...
June 23, 2004, 11:12 p.m. CST
great Documetary(earlier review) film to a great Propaganda film ......... Hell Harry you and the rest of Moores fan's are eating his shit(lies=propaganda)and just loving it..... LMAO how sweet !
June 23, 2004, 11:34 p.m. CST
I know that Bush lies, because Michael Moore told me Bush lies. Michael Moore may be a propagandist, but he means well. He didn
June 24, 2004, 12:01 a.m. CST
But, hate and racism is everywhere in politics. From the left to the right. I am from the south. Do you know how many redneck racists around here are liberal Democrats??? You'd be amazed at the number of democrats and liberals who are racist. And I've never read the Bible being racist or homophobic...I've read in the Old Testament alot of consequences for homosexuality...and serious consequences for getting tatoo's and..also, shaving. :) So there you go. It is a testament to the Nazi wing of the liberals (this new phenom everywhere) and some misguided Democrats that everything they hate about the "Bible" comes from the more "Jewish" (The Old Testament) part of the Bible and when they attack the "Christian right-wingers" they always fawn over the more 'Christian" part of the Bible (The New Testament and the Gospel's of Jesus) and Jesus' great leftist philosophies. Again, which is it??? Quit hating Jews (maybe not you, but definately some "liberals" on here). And stop trying to pass the buck when your kind (if not you) are caught in Jew-Hating Nazism. I won't tolerate it from this new breed of wierd "anti-semitic liberals' anymore than I would tolerate it from "klan conservative nazi's". And quit abhoring the Bible and the believers in it while praising much of the content yourself when it suits your agenda. That is wierd. Especially when you probably don't read much of anything...to say nothing of the Bible. By and large a fascinating piece of literature, as most books of religion, regardless of a person's personal belief. Read some books...and not just one kind of books.
June 24, 2004, 12:20 a.m. CST
by Citizen You
It's a measure of the corruption of the American press and media that people are surprised by anything contained in Moore's movie. Not one revelation. Look around the world: millions of ordinary people came out against this war, based on knowledge provided to them by their respective news sources. Only American exceptionalists who actually believe that Americans are better people than everyone else, can also believe that everyone else in the world is wrong. Willfully ignorant, blind to facts, they persist in supporting dishonesty, war-profiteering, mass-murder and self-defeating belligerence, just to preserve the vile lie that American lives are more valuable than all other human lives. Our Constitution is the envy of the world, mostly because of its first ten amendments, but our greed, our egocentricity, our gullibility are despised, and rightly so. I agree with a statement I heard recently: This time, voting for Bush can be viewed as a character flaw. Let me add, and thank you Harry for making this point, the important thing is that everyone register and vote. To neglect that basic duty is a betrayal of democracy.
June 24, 2004, 12:45 a.m. CST
So there's alot of brou-ha-ha about inconsistancies in Columbine. That may be true. It may not be true. I mean whatever you think of Moore he's obviously a smart guy and I doubt he'd leave himself open for lawsuit by NOT CHECKING HIS FACTS BEFORE RELEASING HIS MOVIE NATIONWIDE. And where are the lawsuits about that anyway? Since everyone's so sure that BFC was complete bullshit. Heston made that speech before Columbine? WHY DOESN'T HE SUE THE FUCKER THEN??? Mmmm maybe he's too compassionate? Well why not give the awarded sum to charity... that'd go along way to perfume the stink of Moore's allegations, you think? As for the whole F/911 thing, it's not Moore whose fucking you lot up your collective asses to make his buddies rich. It's not Moore whose made America the most hated nation on Earth. It's not Moore whose letting the wishes of oil companies dictate his presidency. I'm all for loving your country and all but Jezuz Christ you guys and your blind faith in whoever's your president is just plain scary... Oh yeah, fuck talkbackers.
June 24, 2004, 12:50 a.m. CST
Lookout world!!! Cause I, George w.BusHitler will regain my Second Reich (err I mean second turn).Whoever is my enemy will be strip nake and be photograph by my professional trianed US soldiers.Torture will be included with no extra charge.
June 24, 2004, 1:04 a.m. CST
I,George w. BusHitler foget to order my soldiers to put thier finger into Saddam's asshole, maybe thats where he's hidden the WMD.
June 24, 2004, 1:20 a.m. CST
LOL. The French loved this film, heck it won @ Cannes. Now doesn't THAT tell you something? A political "documentary"... That should tell you something. No way in Hell, I'd fork out ~$10 to see this. My money will be used on better things. Heck, I'd rather give it to a bum on the street.
June 24, 2004, 1:21 a.m. CST
Seriously folks, how can you liberals complain about Bush when your boy Slick Willy owned the White House for 8 years and DIDN'T DO A G-DAMNED THING TO FIGHT TERRORISM!!! World Trade Center '93-- Dems did nothing! Khobar Towers '96 --dems did nothing! Embassy bombings in Keyna and Tanzania '98 --dems did nothing! Cole bombing 2000--dems did nothing! Two chances to capture Osama--dems did nothing! So take a look in the fucking mirror you hyocrites (and Michael Moore and Harry Knowles sure put the "Hippo" in hypocrites!)I mean honestly, the way you guys defend traitors and terrrorists, you probably think the hostages didn't get their heads sawed off but simply "unattached"!!!!
June 24, 2004, 1:41 a.m. CST
by Triumph poops!
That sucker's going to be a box office tidal wave that will wash and bury Moore away...resulting in the sound of crickets chirping in whatever theaters FAHRENHEIT's still booked into. Spidey's here and now the second summer wave and July onrush of GOOD movies will occupy the multiplexes as they should...flush Moore's piece of shit down the drain...and all will be right with the movie going world again.
June 24, 2004, 1:54 a.m. CST
ummm, hey Sidious-1138, if you're going to quote someone, use the whole quote, as in the case of LIBERAL Slate essayist/critic Christopher Hitchens: "I have already said that Moore's film has the staunch courage to mock Bush for his verbal infelicity. Yet it's much, much braver than that. From Fahrenheit 9/11 you can glean even more astounding and hidden disclosures, such as the capitalist nature of American society, the existence of Eisenhower's "military-industrial complex," and the use of "spin" in the presentation of our politicians. It's high time someone had the nerve to point this out. There's more. Poor people often volunteer to join the army, and some of them are duskier than others. Betcha didn't know that. Back in Flint, Mich., Moore feels on safe ground. There are no martyred rabbits this time. Instead, it's the poor and black who shoulder the packs and rifles and march away. I won't dwell on the fact that black Americans have fought for almost a century and a half, from insisting on their right to join the U.S. Army and fight in the Civil War to the right to have a desegregated Army that set the pace for post-1945 civil rights. I'll merely ask this: In the film, Moore says loudly and repeatedly that not enough troops were sent to garrison Afghanistan and Iraq. (This is now a favorite cleverness of those who were, in the first place, against sending any soldiers at all.) Well, where does he think those needful heroes and heroines would have come from? Does he favor a draft
June 24, 2004, 1:57 a.m. CST
The quote was sarcastic in tone.
June 24, 2004, 2:13 a.m. CST
As the french honored a NAZI for exposing the EVIL JEWS. They have once again heaped an award for exposing the EVIL REPUBLICAN.
June 24, 2004, 2:16 a.m. CST
"What have I ever done? I never intended harm to anyone. I do not know what I should apologise for. I cannot apologise, for example, for having made the film "Triumph of the Will" - it won the top prize. All my films won prizes." Leni Riefenstahl
June 24, 2004, 2:31 a.m. CST
"2. Gutting environmental regulations is a pretty serious charge. Is it fair to argue that Bush relaxed regulations? Sure. Your problem is that ANY relaxation of those rules is seen as "destroying the environment". It speaks to my point that you are a ranting loon. Stop watching the Day After Tomorrow." - - - - -- Relaxing environmental standards is not something to be taken lightly. When America faces competition from countries who profit from not having labor and environmental standards, it is important for the U.S. to follow its own policies of environmental responsibility in order to level the playing field for our businesses. - - - - "3. Bush did not vote on P1 or P2. You must be really pissed at all those civil rights-hating Dems in Congress about now? BTW, what specific rights have YOU lost?" - --- Bush didn't vote but he signed it into law. Voting against the patriot act is political suicide because when the election rolls around one would surely be painted as weak on homeland security. The Patriot Act isn't about taking away our rights, it gives too many rights to law enforcement. Sure these laws are designed to protect against terrorists but what happens if they stumble onto another crime, what would normally be unconstitutional is now legal. - - - - - - "4. Banning gay marriage is not discrimination. If you are so open to redefining marriage, then I suppose you support incestuous marriages, too...RIGHT? Who are you to start drawing lines as to who can and can't get married? I AM willing to draw and line...and defend it." - - - - Our society does not accept incestuous or polygamous relationships, we do however, by ruling of the supreme court overturning sodomy laws, accept gay relationships and therefore banning their marriage converts them to a second class citizenship. Marriage is a secular institution as is our government which means we can not discriminate who recieves a marriage license based on only what I see as religious opposition. What is so bad abot changing it from a man and woman to two people. - - - - - - - "5. Fining obscene material is well within the authority of the FCC. If you are so open-minded, then you must be outraged that porn is not on prime-time? Why not kiddie porn? If you want to erase the lines of decency, you'd better be ready to defend it. Slippery slope..." - - - - - - - If indecency is the problem and Janet Jackson started this crackdown why hasn't she recieved a fine?? These fines affect a select few broadcasters whose audiences are adults. All these scare tactics accomplish is overcensoring by networks for fear of being fined - - - - - -"6. The economy is the best it's been in years. Look at the numbers. Never mind 9/11, right? And we had better be extra special nice to those guys on Gitmo. We might hurt their feelings...boohoo." - - - - - - Numbers like our record deficit for two years straight. We went from surplus to record deficits in one term I can't imagine what would happen in two. For a nation making a war based on human rights we sure don't show our dedication when it matters most. The administration has said Geneva Conventions do not apply to prisoners at Gitmo and I don't buy that the abuse was done by "a few bad apples", and mounting evidence such as a justice department memo outlining torture techniques including use of dogs that recently surfaced suggests I'm right - - - - -. "al Queda is NOT stronger than ever (I don't know where that came from...just kooky)" - - - - - Iraq has provided the biggest recruitment tool for Bin Laden ever, the American invasion of an Arab nation. Many people agree that the situation in Iraq is contributing to anti-Americanism, so I don't see where you get "kooky".
June 24, 2004, 3:10 a.m. CST
by Triumph poops!
Yeah, it's going to be shown at festivals this year, especially Cannes since those cocksuckers will go crazy for anything that's cinematic garbage. I saw it the other day -- I'll email Harry a review to post. It starts with Michael Moore walking through a neighborhood park...then cuts to some banned pedo porn images, flashing them on the screen to ram an emotionally jarring point home. Then the film shows Moore at Hollywood parties tipping a few, getting drunk like the fat bastard he is, then slam cuts to boys undressed and writhing in bed having been drugged. A shadowy fat figure stands nearby...is it Moore, ah, who cares. Sure it is! The movie's about him, so it must be him. Were the boys drugged? Well, much like Moore and COLUMBINE and the infamous gun/bank scene, no, the boys weren't drugged per se, but hey, the important thing is the point the movie's trying to make. It doesn't matter if it's actually a STAGED scene that was planned IN ADVANCE. Then, the movie gets roaring. When the boy toy loving charges are brought up against Moore in public, no one wants to believe it...so a reporter goes running around armed with a camcorder and microphone chasing Moore for rebuttal comments, breaking into meetings and getting tossed out by security (what are those fascists trying to suppress, hmm?) -- but what a shock! Moore continually refuses to give an interview and does whatever he can to brush the cameraman away. And we all know that anyone NOT willing to talk to a filming documentarian who just popped up in an ambush moment MUST be hiding something, right? >Wink, wink!< Then to portray Moore's stance on terrorism, siding with the Liberals, the film shows soldiers being gunned down in Iraq followed by Kerry giving his infamous quote about how he voted for budgetary appropriations for men in service and improved armaments...well, before he then voted against it. He still can't decide. Then the film shows Bin Laden cursing the US...at which point it cuts to Bill Clinton playing golf...then back to Bin Laden...then to shots of Monica sucking something. Then the film shows the 9/11 terrorist taking their flight training...then cuts to Moore railing on "rich and priveleged Republicans" while he's goring his blue whale belly at a fancy smancy dinner, going on about how vigilant all Liberals are. Then the film shows the Twin Towers exploding and falling in slow motion, intercut with shots of Clinton blowing his load -- his jizz artistically arcing through the air -- so that just as the Towers hit the ground in a cloud of dust and people run screaming, his jizz lands on Monica's blue dress...ironically forming the shape of Red China and atomic bombs, symbolizing the atomic secrets Clinton let get stolen as well. Then back to Michael Moore walking in a park, looking at children again...OBVIOUSLY scanning for his next boy toy. I mean, why ELSE would he be in a park? >wink, wink< Fade out to Michael Moore grinning his rotund face while holding his Oscar, because we all know a fat fuck like that MUST like little boys with THAT kind of shit eating grin. To make sure the point is made, again ala COLUMBINE and the rotating prison ad sequence, the film superimposes subtitles that say "I love to fuck underaged boys." Was that in the original footage of Moore getting his Oscar? No, but much like the way Moore altered the prison ad -- right down to adding subtitles -- to lie about what the ad was ACTUALLY about, hey, what's the harm in inserting new subtitles here to make sure a particular point is made? Yeah, I gotta admit this Oscar-winning documentary stuff is pretty easy to do when you do it "the Michael Moore way." All I need is a camera, a point of view, a lot of footage that I can juxtapose for emotional effect (even if the various elements aren't related) and let the fun fly! Whoo-hoo! But hey, the film's ok -- it's not a personal attack. It's only meant to wake up Americans about the fact that there's a man-boy lover on the loose. And the movie is meant as a satirical look since he's now a prominent figure on the political landscape as well, so thankfully the producers can't be sued. After all, using the Moore excuse, it's NOT a FACT based documentary...it's a "satirical, one man's opinion, editorial piece merely expressing a point of view" and is thus protected by the first amendment. Best of all, the MPAA decided it was more important to see than FAHRENHEIT, so they rated it PG-13 since they want people to see things for how they really are. It's coming soon to a multiplex near you! Look for it!
June 24, 2004, 6:48 a.m. CST
"After all, using the Moore excuse, it's NOT a FACT based documentary...it's a "satirical, one man's opinion, editorial piece merely expressing a point of view" and is thus protected by the first amendment." Just out of curiosity, are you attacking the first amendment? Do you have a problem with Moore's "excuse"? You think conservatives don't fuck with facts to make their point? Like the MULTIPLE times that Dick Cheney has declared that we KNOW Saddam has weapons of mass destruction? Or the MULTIPLE times that George Bush has said (and continues to say) that we KNOW there was a connection between Bin Laden and Hussein? Or how George Bush keeps telling everyone that John Kerry voted against buying body armor for U.S. troops, neglecting to inform the public that this particular purchase was attached to a massive increase in funds intended to be poured into the vast Iraqi MONEY PIT that even some REPUBLICANS didn't vote for?If George Bush wants to hand us a sack of crap and tell us it's filled with gold doubloons, that's okay. Just don't bitch when the other side gets a little back. What really cheeses me off about your post is the rather frightening (albeit unspoken) implication that the first amendment ought to be rescinded in the case of Michael Moore. Patriotism means accepting the fact that other people have opinions and have the right to voice them. You don't have to like them, and you don't have to like the opinions themselves, but you've gotta like the freedom. Unbelievable. It's unbelievable the way the right screams about the red, white and blue and then tells anyone who expresses an alternate point of view that they're un-American. Look, believe it or not I'm a centrist. I'm against gun control, I'm fiscally conservative - hell, I'm even a little bit of a hawk. I can't believe we haven't dusted that asshole in North Korea yet. There are things that piss me off about both sides, but the thing that drives me unrelentingly crazy about conservatives (and the thing that made me register as a Democrat) is their arrogance. Their self-assured certainty that not only are they right and there's no room for doubt that everyone else is wrong, but that all the people they think are wrong hate America. It's cheap patriotism and it makes my fascist detector start ringing like crazy.
June 24, 2004, 7:21 a.m. CST
LesterB says that the reason he is a registered Democrat is "...[the conservatives'] arrogance. Their self-assured certainty that not only are they right and there's no room for doubt that everyone else is wrong, but that all the people they think are wrong hate America." Funny. I feel the same way about liberals, which is why I registered Republican.
June 24, 2004, 7:41 a.m. CST
A: None. They'll just get kids from the ghetto who enlisted in the military to raid the house and burn it to the ground. Then they'll give Halliburton an 80 billion dollar contract to rebuild the house, install new electricity, make new light bulbs from scratch, install them and then de-install them. Who foots the bill? The tapayers ofcourse! By the way, Rush Limbaugh is a fat drug addict who couldn't even hold a job at ESPN.
June 24, 2004, 7:57 a.m. CST
WITH REGARDS TO : Fireball XL-5 Subject: We're In Trouble Comment: Thousands and thousands of words posted here and virtually no indication
June 24, 2004, 9:07 a.m. CST
Wait and go see "The Village" instead...it will blow your mind and you will say "Crazy Fucking White People"!
June 24, 2004, 11:23 a.m. CST
by Childe Roland
There are some very well thought out arguments from both sides in this talkback... or at least well written ones. But, even among the many obviously uninformed and barely literate opinions being spouted on this board, two of you stand out as shining examples of how a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing... particularly when coupled with a complete lack of imagination and a bucket of bias. Steve Chase, you actually mention the Slippery Slope in one of your posts, which leads me to believe you must have takeen at least one rudimentary logic course in high school. So how is it possible that the rest of the same post can be so rife with other obvious logical fallacies? The most glaring of these is your tendency to proceed from a false assumption "If you support this, then you must support that." Try that in a real debate sometime. Then enjoy your spanking. You and Big Dumb Ape obviously have scanned a few talking points in preparation for your postings, but unfortunately tidbits of information stated with authority only sound authoritative until they're challenged, as has been done very thoroughly by many on this board, and your responses to these challenges have been unimaginative rants assaulting the character of the challengers at best or, in Big Dumb Ape's case, threats of physical violence. What an original and inspired debate tactic. "Agree with me or I'll beat the shit out of you." Sounds vaguely like the stuff coming out of the White House these days. Unfortunately, guys like you don't have the military at your beck and call and, more often than not, are all talk when it comes to an up close and personal throw down. You want to debate like a grown up... fine. You want to go schoolyard if things don't go your way? We can do that, too. Shithead.
June 24, 2004, 12:34 p.m. CST
by Trader Groucho 2
which was a valid concern - in the 18th Century. The Electoral College has never operated in the manner intended by the Founding Fathers. It was called a COLLEGE because the intention was for the best and brightest to be chosen as electors, and they would delegate and elect the president. Instead, what they do now is rubber-stamp the will of the majority of voters in their state, giving 100% of a state's electoral college votes to the candidate receiving a plurality of the state's popular vote. Hence the selection of Rutherford B. Hayes (a one-term president known to wags of the period as "His Fraudulency") and GW Bush. People in this country today, while still living in states, may be more relevantly viewed as falling into various polital/interest groups based on culture, income, and other lifestyle issues. A far fairer way to insure that the interests of these various groups, both liberal AND conservative, are represented would be by not simply replacing the Electoral College with a direct popular vote, but by replacing the current congressional district system with a national party-based parliamentary system in which parties that cross a threshhold of voter support are seated proportionally to their support by the electorate. I don't expect either major party in this nation to embrace such a change, as they would perceive this as a serious threat to their duopoly.
June 24, 2004, 1:29 p.m. CST
SO, 300 talkbacks later....anybody seen this movie? This is a movie review site, innit? I would love to hear your views. Everything else gets SKIPPED, baybee
June 24, 2004, 3:20 p.m. CST
June 24, 2004, 3:47 p.m. CST
We haven't had a major terror attack on US soil since 911. He must be doing something right. We are killing a lot of terrorists in Iraq! Better there than over here! ViVa Bush!
June 24, 2004, 6:48 p.m. CST
i am pleased that harry is honest enough to say that this movie is propaganda. but, if we see this movie and think that for one second that kerry is a spotless man, then we will get a rude awakening if he gets elected. fact is we have no good candidates, and we need to take from this movie that we need honest, honorary people to come up and be candidates to run the best country in the world.
June 24, 2004, 10:30 p.m. CST
All you folks live in country were you can speak out against your leaders and not fear for your life, your family
June 25, 2004, 6:38 p.m. CST
Mr. Sallis, You suggest that Republicans form their own movie studio, and as a Republican, I couldn't agree more. Consider it done. =)
June 26, 2004, 12:12 a.m. CST
Good on ya Harry for the excellent review and GO GO GO MIKEY!!!! Excellent documentary. Now come on ya crazy ass Bush supporters, blather on about how great the idiot king is!
June 26, 2004, 12:16 a.m. CST
Good point, the Democrats aren't perfect, but I'd take a Democrat any day over Bush. Have we ever had a time where our civil rights would be in more jeopardy than they possibly will in a Second Bush Regime? There's no fucking way we would have had the Patriot Act with Gore in office. We also would have been much farther along with regard to renewable energy sources. The four years of Bush have been an incredibly dark time for our country. Just an incredibly corrupt fucking bunch.
June 26, 2004, 12:18 a.m. CST
You fucking liar. In response to your question: How Many Conservatives Does It Take To Unscrew A Lightbulb? The answer is: Conservatives would deny that the lightbulb exists. They'll talk about the fucking doorknob twenty four hours a day until the masses forget about the lightbulb. Operation Dumbya rule number one: even though it's bullshit, repeat it until people believe it!
June 26, 2004, 4:49 a.m. CST
what a beautiful piece of film. I don't understand how anyone can hate this film. I don't understand how anyone can have any respect for Bush after this. Are we so blind?
June 26, 2004, 3:44 p.m. CST
If anyone is still reading after these last 30 pages of rants, it really is a good film. Sure, it drags in places; it's also totally irrelevant in others (The Oregon bit), but most of it is just straight out REPORTING (from the other side of the fence). When have the major networks ever interviewed ANGRY soldiers? (Both returned, and still on active duty) Or INNOCENT CIVILIANS and their casualties in the war? Or U.S. amputees? These are not gratuitous images, it is basic two-sided reporting that we haven't had the benefit of seeing stateside. Sure it has spin, every breath of out everyone's mouth in this planet has SPIN. But factually, everything presented on the screen is solid. Please, detractors, even if you must PIRATE this film to see it, challenge yourself to prove otherwise.
June 27, 2004, 2:54 a.m. CST
by Darth Thoth
'Nuff said. I really hope this films forces people to WAKE UP and see what's really going on. God bless you Mike!
June 27, 2004, 3:34 a.m. CST
We've all been at this for 4 years now. I don't know about everyone else, but fatigue has certainly set in for me. I've gathered more information and come up with more scenarios and analogies to try and make others see this situation in a different light, but to no avail. It's all just dismissed as liberal propaganda, no matter what the source. I haven't gone around trying to convince anyone who would sit still of my opinions, it's all been me responding to someone challenging my opinion. You really can't make the horse drink. If someone is going to change their mind they have to have their own epihany. It's just like how drug addicts will only dry out if they want to. I saw the movie last night and I was grateful. Grateful because the more important elements are presented as they are, no slant. See what you want. I was worried it would all be just one big music video for that ridiculously pathetic MXPX song, but it wasn't. Anyway the only volley i'll fire is a great big FUCK YOU to that bitch with the bowl cut who questioning the mother of the dead soldier. I don't care what side you're on, that shit was wrong. Maybe i've still got some fight in me after all, but i'll save it for another talkback.
June 27, 2004, 2:51 p.m. CST
That is the alternate? I stick w/ the devil I know. The oil must flow. If only the Libertarians had a chance. Bush didn't start this fire, and the Muslum nations have been asking for this war for 50 years. For that matter, the war between East & West goes back to the Spartans, or even further, the Isralites and the Philistens. Maybe if we kick the wind outta these folks they will become more civilized. nuff said
June 27, 2004, 3:01 p.m. CST
I bet we would have the patriot act under Gore. Let's not forget this attempts to silence freedom w/ censorship, big govt., and worse of all, trying to kill copyright laws to let intellectual property be exploited before the owner can reap the benifits. J.Kerry said we should be fighting in Afganistan. Shiii, no army has ever won in that hell hole. Atleast all the terrorist are rushing to Iraq instead. Am I wrong?
June 27, 2004, 5:47 p.m. CST
Haven't seen the film, but I keep reading about how it shows images of napalmed Iraqis. I keep wondering how this could be. We don't use napalm any more. This leads me to believe that Moore is trying to link images or Vietnam (famous pic of napalmed little girl) with Iraq. And this makes me wonder what other stretches that he has made. Now, I not saying that we didn't cause the injuries shown in the film, but I don't think bending the truth to serve your agenda is good either. BTW, before any of you talkbackers start flaming me over whether or not we use napalm, etc, understand this: I was in Iraq so I probably have a better understanding of what weapons we do or don't use.
June 27, 2004, 6:04 p.m. CST
How about watching the film? Moore got all of his images from Iraq. I don't recall him discussing Napalm in the film, just women, children, etc. who were victims of bomb blasts, etc.
June 27, 2004, 6:06 p.m. CST
No, I don't think we would have had the Patriot Act under Gore. The Patriot Act is very much a product of the Neo-Con philosophy that Bush and his cohorts have been trying to bring to bear on America.
June 27, 2004, 6:48 p.m. CST
by Jon E Cin
It seems to me that everyone seeing it already knows how fucked up Bush and our Gov is. So why is it so important? Fight the power! hah
June 27, 2004, 6:53 p.m. CST
That's not bad for a documentary. And those rightwing a@$holes didn't get their way by. Only 868 screens and still al lot of people when to see it. What if it wasn't 868 but 2000. Man, if only.
June 27, 2004, 11:06 p.m. CST
And remember, Christopher Hitchens is a LEFTIST who hates Bush. He still can't stomach Moore's fakery and lies. http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
June 28, 2004, 3:14 a.m. CST
"To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental".... My god, who talks like that? If Mr. Hitchens wrote a documentary that sounded like that, not even the LEFT, RIGHT, FRONT, BACK, or CENTER would watch it! Even his parents would catch it on video. Awesome.
June 28, 2004, 3:56 p.m. CST
"No, I don't think we would have had the Patriot Act under Gore. The Patriot Act is very much a product of the Neo-Con philosophy that Bush and his cohorts have been trying to bring to bear on America." Ummm you'd be better served and more informed if you educate yourself beyond the empty bias crap spewing from both the Left and the Right. The
June 28, 2004, 4:02 p.m. CST
I think its funny that the govt wants to claim that the american public was totally on-board with the whole lets bomb iraq and send our kids out to die idea. Yet masses and masses of americans went to see a movie that was designed and blatantly advertised as being against that very thought. Like someone else had said on here, the people going to see this movie are already against Heir Bush, so think about that.......very limited release....what 900 screens (White Chicks hit over 2000 screens) and it's the #1 movie of the weekend, selling out everywhere. I think in a way, whether people liked what they saw on screen or not, those numbers are like a poll of people that are not too happy with our fearless leader. I can't wait to see how well next weekends numbers are......then maybe it will make a wide release. (there probably won't be a white house screening though.) The thing that saddens the hell out of me though, is that its not going to get any better!!! I mean come on, do we really want Kerry in office????????? That's like saying, hey, Satan is now in office, so your choice is either him again, or his car salesman cousin!! Bush may look like and act like a brain-dead chimpanzee, but Kerry looks like a latex composite of an undead door to door insurance salesman willing to tell the public anything it wants to hear to get his way. Stupidity is scary in office, but a shifty con-artist in office is just crazy!!
June 28, 2004, 6:53 p.m. CST
by Darth Schlong
Michael Moore bitches on and on about the excesses of America, yet the fucker weighs 500 pounds. Bush is a flawed man, but he will still own Kerry's ass in the upcoming election, and Moore's "documentary," however, "important" it is, won't mean shit in the long run. So, have fun making your documentaries, Mr. Moore. But just realize they don't mean shit.
June 29, 2004, 3:13 a.m. CST
I must concede Hitchen
June 29, 2004, 12:21 p.m. CST
"Taking imposing imagery and turning it into ludicrous imagery." That is all Michael Moore did. He is the father of lies.
June 30, 2004, midnight CST
$28.5 million in 4 days for a freakin' documentary. That's insane! I went to see it yesterday, Monday at 1:30pm btw, hoping to miss the madness of the opening weekend. Holy shit was I estacticly mistaken. The place was jammed. If you want to see the real consequences of war, not the glorified pussy shit our networks show us, see this movie. For the Bush ass kissers who keep screaming "Moore's a liar! Moore's a liar!", sorry to say, but your boy Bush and his minions get caught on tape in about 20 lies in this film.
June 30, 2004, 10:45 a.m. CST
I already knew Bush was shady, but I have to thank Moore for revealing a deeper and darker side of Bush. He was exposed for the incompetent and scandalous man that he truly is. This movie is a must see for both conservatives and liberals. If you support Bush, you owe it to yourself to see this documentary so that you know what it is that your advocating.
June 30, 2004, 7:03 p.m. CST
These bleeding heart conservatives who just want to help out other countries (like Iraq) and get our country deep into debt. :P
June 30, 2004, 7:51 p.m. CST
Although it is not Napalm(TM), since jellied gasoline isn
July 1, 2004, 3:25 p.m. CST
The Movie was great because it shows you the side of war that Fox News doesnt. Its shows you a President that goes on vacation most of the time at the start of his term. But the main reason is that fact that he ad everyone duped into thinking there were WMD's and THATS why wer are going to war. Its great how the movie shows everyone say that Iraq doesnt have the abilities to make WMD's then after 9/11 they all turn around and say, "HE's got them!!" BAH! Kerry for 2004. Jar Jar IS Vader!
July 1, 2004, 3:43 p.m. CST
So does half the country. Does that mean you buy anything MM spews before you? What are you French? What is the acceptable rate of manipulation, and outright misreprenstation of the truth in this film, that detractors of Bush consider legit? Does it make you feel ahead of the game to cheer a MOORAN, who can give two shits about anything but his own ego. Fuck the POP politics of the day, and all that sheepishly follow.
July 1, 2004, 5:29 p.m. CST
Why do the Bushies keep dwelling on the whole Saudi/Bush connection in Fahrenheit 9/11? Moore is simply pointing this relationship out and going "HMMMM, kinda fishy eh?". I know why....because you cannot argue with the fact that Dumbya is responsible for thousands of unnecessary deaths and maimings, all in the name of lies. Do you support the war?? Are you aged 18 to...say 35?? Then take your sorry ass over to Iraq and fight this fuckin thing. Otherwise shut the fuck up. Anyone who says he'd willingly go over to Iraq and risk losing his arms, legs, life, you name it...is a fuckin' liar else he/she'd already be over there.
July 1, 2004, 6:41 p.m. CST
http://homepage.mac.com/nonoche/iMovieTheater2.html now you know.
July 1, 2004, 9:21 p.m. CST
Keep sending your postcards to Amnesty Int.Maybe they'll arrange for the trial to be sent to Holland, so poor Sadamm won't face the death penalty. Clinton evades UN mandate, it's a pass, Bush frees 50m, he's Stalin, Hitler, pot rolled into one. Kerry would make things alright, join in the French, and Russians, who have only dealt under the table for years with the fuck. Haliburton, The Zionists, and the Bush's. Grow the fuck up.
July 3, 2004, 5:34 p.m. CST
people lined up in front of a movie theater with a funnel sticking out of their head. Sad eyed sofly bleating out, please tell me what to believe.
July 3, 2004, 6:51 p.m. CST
Moore's latest film is a condemnation of America, our president, and our troops. It is also propaganda endorsed by our enemies abroad. Communist China and Hezbollah have endorsed the filth. It is time to fight back and protect our country from this propaganda that will put our country and our brave men and women fighting in Iraq in danger. Please sign the petition to convict Michael Moore of treason. http://www.conservativepetitions.com/petitions.php?id=277#tag_back?PID=19a1daa9509cabe25d07902a26284375
July 4, 2004, 6:54 p.m. CST
not documentary filmmaker. Is the title Moore gave himself. This is so he can sensationalize anything he wants without legally be held responsible for what is said. I must admit, i am a semi-fan of Moore. He is fun and entertaining, and smart. But if he can rally folks to his cause, freedom is not safe. Gee, the only freedom we have is to vote. There are so many laws and loopholes out there (war powers act, house bill 666, etc.)freedom is an illusion. At least you can still get out there and make your own little world and life and try and be happy. A note to liberals who think Republicans are the only problem. Just remeber those "nut-cases" in Waco, and those "hateful malitia members". The early 90s was the revolution that was lost by the common man and won by the powers that be. Worlds come to an end every day. X-Ed
July 4, 2004, 10 p.m. CST
This film is a change of pace for Moore; facts that he states are pretty much all backed up by either 1) video footage, 2) written documents shown ON SCREEN or 3) by spoken interviews. It's sad that so many of the right wingers on here would do a complete 180 if they actually went and you know, saw it, before making their minds up as they seem to be. I just hope when the time comes you all vote for the right guy...and anyone with any ounce of sense can see who that ISN'T. I'm not American myself so you'd think this wouldn't concern me, but when the actions of your president are no longer just ruining your own country, and are now affecting the entire WORLD, it's infuriating to come to a place like AICN and see that the only people who have the power to change things, i.e. YOU, are all playing for the wrong team. When you vote just remember it's more than just you who is paying the price, and put some serious thought into that decision...
July 5, 2004, 11:34 p.m. CST
I wrote this to the so called american patriot-Dear American Patriot, Your petition is very dangerous in the defining fact that you call yourself an American Patriot. America, for it's best, is a land of many opinions and the FREEDOM to voice them. If you were truly a patriot you would celebrate the fact that Mr. Moore has the ability to express himself, even if you do not agree with him. It's the same right that you exercise when you disagree with the goverment. Your petition for treason borders on facism, meaning you do not agree with a party so they must be eliminated. These are the tactics of regimes like the Bathists and Taliban. I am a proud American but greatly disturbed by nationalism. If we are the moral superior then we must act as such by demonstrating tolerance and wisdom. Nationalism leads to facism. Are founding fathers knew in order for any peoples based goverment to survive must be open and respo nsible to public criticism. A true American Patriot holds these values in my opinion. he responded to me with this- If you are defending Michael Moore then you are no friend of America. Shut the hell you you stupid commie and don't e-mail me again. if anyone out there thinks I don't deserve such a response please voice your opinions to email@example.com
July 6, 2004, 11:37 p.m. CST
Hey fuckwit, how about actually doing some research? The neo-con Bush Administration were the facist fucks who passed the Patriot Act laws and WERE THE ONES WHO ACTIVELY LOBBIED FOR IT! Your post makes no fucking sense. The Patriot Act wasn't even conceived before the Bush cartel. These idiots saw an opportunity in the 9/11 attacks, and our dumbass media happily went along with them. They saw fit to constrict current laws and to enact WHOLLY new laws to eviscerate our personal freedoms. I don't really know what your agenda is, but how about pressuring the morons who sought to put this legislation in place, instead of being an apologist for Bush and his freedom eroding JUNTA?!
July 6, 2004, 11:40 p.m. CST
Wake up fucktard, what do you think the Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations were doing? Do you seriously think those administrations weren't "doing business under the table with Saddam"? You're deluded moron...
July 6, 2004, 11:47 p.m. CST
That's MORON, not MOORON. Jackass. The reason people are speaking out against Bush is the fact that his administration is THE MOST CONSERVATIVE administration this country has ever seen! The country and most of the western world was very happy with the Clinton administration because of the fact the Clinton largely embodied middle-of-the-road ideals. He really wasn't left or right, he was centrist. The only problem was, the radical right would stop at nothing to attack his ass, and the conservative media went right along. WELL... after Bush was appointed by the Supreme Court, his administration has enacted an amazing amount of freedom-restricting, backwards-ass laws that the American public has finally become aware of (not to mention their illegal war). The time of the neo-cons is up. The sleeping masses have THANKFULLY been awakened and not even the conservative media can keep them asleep any longer. Thank goodness for Michael Moore. Bush and his criminal administration will get their stealing asses thrown out in November. Every true American will rejoice when those fucktards are kicked to the curb!!!
July 6, 2004, 11:49 p.m. CST
I'm just amazed at how ridiculous your posts are. I'd love to hear your reasons for backing Bush. Please let us know why you're one of the mindless Sheep!!!
July 6, 2004, 11:51 p.m. CST
Unfortunately for the deluded Bush Supporters, they'll never go see this film as they'll denounce it as "LIES, DAMN LIES" (as the White House spokesman has done) without ever seeing it. For those of you who aren't brain dead, go check it out. The facts are indisputable.
July 7, 2004, 2:35 a.m. CST
Let's see, the so called liberal media shows us images of Soilders in uniform, graphics of American flags flapping in the wind, Bradley vehicles, jets, and other patriotic images. The administration refuses to let the media take pictures of American soilders coming homew in coffins, there is constant censorship of violent images or dead civilians. Which brings up the question, who's supplying the propaganda?
July 7, 2004, 2:47 p.m. CST
That is all.
July 7, 2004, 10:29 p.m. CST
July 7, 2004, 10:31 p.m. CST
and crime. And I'm tired of his bleedin heart compassionism.
July 9, 2004, 12:07 p.m. CST
Question: If Moore is a liar, why does his book 'Dude, where's my country?' (a lot of material from which is used in F911) have a note pointing out exactly where his information has been extracted? Are TIME magazine, The New York Observer, The NY Times and The Washington Post liars too? Oh no, he "misquoted" them, yeah? So the 'White House In Denial' article as published in The New York Times last year would otherwise sound complimentary to Bush if Moore hadn't twisted it to his own views? Wake up, Sheep. Your shepherd is a chimp. And can we please stop bringing up the Heston-Moore meeting? Yeah, it's unfair to question a weak, frail, senile old man... but invite him up to a podium in front of an audience of gun-nuts and watch him run. He'd be up on that stage like a fucking greyhound. He managed to trot off fast enough when Moore got him to admit that the country's turmoil was all down to 'the other races'.
July 9, 2004, 5:05 p.m. CST
ere's my review of the new movie 'Spiderman 2' hey, a great new movie is out and I'm here to tell you, its the best new comic book ripoff since Batman! Lets get right to the good parts- The movie starts six months after where the old one left off. Spidey is still kicking around, but crimefighting has really put the stress on him. He's become a raging alcoholic and he mainly hangs out in strip bars. He spends a lot of time on the sidewalk, too. He rescues people but it's things like "hey, man- you dropped your wallet.. nope, no money in it when I found it. Bummer,dude" and he rescues a sandwich from falling on the ground. That web thing is pretty handy! Meanwhile, there's a giant shark out in the bay and its eating people. Every day, a swimmer gets eaten for lunch. You'd think they'd stay out of the water for a while, and the shark would move on to a better buffet, but you know how people are. Anyway, a whole bunch of people try to get Spiderman to do something about it, but Spidey's all like, "Hey, @#$*& You! That's a SHARK, man!!" and then he hits the bottle. So, Roy scheider rents a boat with Richard Dreyfus and they go out to take care of the shark. The shark swims around the boat and scares the living crap out of everybody and they say things like "We're gonna need a bigger hammer! Claw side down!!" and "I just wet myself!" Finally the shark swims right up onto the boat and eats the salty old sea captain. Roy and Richard are on the boat all alone, hugging on to each other and crying because the shark is still looking pretty hungry and all the sudden SPIDERMAN swings down from a jet and jumps on the shark!! whooohooo!! he's not even very drunk!!!! (but you know, I kinda forgave him for that because you'd have to be a pretty s#itfaced to jump on a Giant Shark). so he starts punchin the shark and trying to make a web around it (so he can eat it later you know... that's how spiders work) but its all wet so he keeps sliding off into the ocean. Finally, the Shark gets a good bite on him and takes him down and you think "man, thats the end of Spiderman" but then Spiderman shoots radioactive venom into the shark and it explodes!! and that was cool!!! so I thought it was the end so I got up to leave but there's more! The shark was full of wolverines and a tiger! (I guess it had eaten these animals earlier, I'm not sure). So now Spiderman has to fight these giant cats who are really mad because they're all wet and they smell like shark stomach! Yow!!! and spiderman kicks into high gear cause he wants to get back to his warm grate on the sidewalk. He rescues the boat I think and they all go home. Okay, I don't have enough money to go see the movie, but I think that's how it should go.
July 9, 2004, 5:55 p.m. CST
First of all let me say that Michael Moore is an Absolute genius. He is a master story teller and an exceptional editor. I mean who else could make a 120 minute film 90% of which is stock footage not even shot by him that any of us could get. The other 10% are ambushing of people he opposes or interviews he may or may not of even shot himself. Combine all that with his calculated and leading (and in some cases mis-leading) voice-overs and you have a movie that just made 21 million at the box office on opening day that he spent about $1.50 on in film and the rest on editing. One of the points Moore tries to make are supposed Bush family ties to Osama Bin Laden. Moore never mentions that there are several hundred Bin Ladens in the family and most have never even met him. The rest wrote him off a long time ago as a lunatic that's bad for business. I'm really not surprised that the Bush's, an oil family, have ties to Bin Laden's an oil family. So what? I don't see the point. Another attempt Moore tries to make is he claims Bush cut terrorist funding to the FBI. When in fact the budget he was refering to was a March 2001 Clinton budget. Bush had yet to submit a budget having been in office less than 60 days. He also infers the Afghanistan invasion was not about Bin Laden but about a Oil/natural gas pipeline. A pipe line that has yet to be started on or agreed to. Nor does he say the only reason there is not already a pipeline is the lack of central control of the area the pipeline would have to travel. The same reason the Taliban were not able to build one even though they tried. Unical in fact told their stock holders they have no interest in a pipeline in Afghanistan. Somewhere along the way Moore loses focus and starts in on the Patriot Act. There is one scene where he talks about much of Oregon's coast is not patrolled and blames "The budget cuts". I guess I'm supposed to blame budget cuts in one of the most liberal states in the country on Bush? I didn't know Bush did Oregon's budget too. Much of the film is dedicated to showing Rice, Ashcroft, Cheeney, Bush etc. In various "pre" interview situations such as getting their make up applied. This I just don't get. Is it filler? Are they evil because they are using make up that was probably tested on animals first? How does this footage further his "theory" that 9/11 is a Bush conspiracy to invade Afghanistan and Iraq? In watching the movie I couldn't help but wonder just how many people he had to interview to find people who would say what he wanted them to say. through out the film Moore offers nothing, not a whiff of what HE thinks Bush or anyone else SHOULD of done. Its very easy to criticize actions especially when you control the camera and the editing machine. He also fails to give a reason to vote for Kerry. At this point I honestly don't see much difference between the two. Moore devotes alot of the film trying to make the point that the military prays upon minority's. Although there may be some truth to that, is Moore not doing EXACTLY the same thing? In the end i'm left with the feeling that Moore is not out fighting for those that can't fight for themselves. But using those people he claims to be fighting for to make himself rich. The liberal cause he claims to be fighting for is left as a casualty to his obvious attempts at throwing his opinions on the masses at the expense of the facts.
July 13, 2004, 1:02 a.m. CST
by Cigar Guy
Well, no. Actually, the "facts" in the film are being disputed by quite a number of folks. This includes such mainstream media as Newsweek. See: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5335853/site/newsweek The last time I checked, Newsweek was not a member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Another very-detailed website has detailed 59 separate acts of "deceit" in Moore's latest film: http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm Note this column was written by a guy who voted for Ralph Nader. A documentary is SUPPOSED to be truthful and it is becoming pretty clear that this one is not. One can take issue with a number of President Bush' policies (I actually think he is not right-wing enough!), but resorting to varying degrees of deceit and conspiracy kookiness ain't gonna convince anyone in swing-voterville. As for Iraq, we are now up to the discovery of 263 mass graves filled with hundreds of thousands of Saddam's victims. Each day the surviving family members wait by the edge of the pits as bulldozers uncover more bodies. People then go though the remains to see if they can discover their lost fathers, sons, wives, or daughters. If you would like to see a side of pre-war Iraq that somehow Mr. Moore overlooked with all that happy-go-lucky kite-flying and cafe stuff, try: http://www.massgraves.info/ If you have a really strong stomach, you might also type the search terms "halabja" and "gas" into Google and then follow some of the links. These Kurdish children will not be flying kites, however. It seems being gassed by cyanide put an end to their playtime. For a small sample of Saddam's governance in action, go to: http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html Again, these images are pretty gruesome -- and the man responsible for them is now on trial (thank goodness!) What matters here is that this human monster is gone from power and all of humanity is safer because of it. At least one million people (mostly Muslims) are dead because of his wars and internal oppression. His own citizens now are trying him for war crimes and atrocities and will likely hang him. Get it: They don't want him back in power -- they want him swinging at the end of a rope! Even the worst critics of GWB should be giddy with delight that a first-class bastard like Saddam is no more. I would be offering high-fives to Bill Clinton himself if it had happened on his watch (and I loathed Clinton). Here was a psycho that cut off critic's tongues, had women gang-raped in front of their families, and filled mass graves with children. Yet America's Lefties now seem to be crying in their bongs that Psycho-Saddam is gone because the wrong president was in power when it happened. This is pretty sick, if you aks me.
July 13, 2004, 2:14 p.m. CST
seems like everybody has their knickers in a twist. has the film acheived anything? you are all talking about it. i've read some of the comments and felt the need to contribute. sitting over here in the uk isee bush and all the people around him as the most dangerous people on the planet. one comment read that the US are the good guys. are you? don't get me wrong blair is no better. the amount of shock and horror that arose after 9/11 was understandable for those who lost loved ones in that terrible event, but the indignation protrayed by gwb was vomit inducing. if you go around bombing everybody someday someone will say no more and bomb you right back. good is relative. the difference between terrorism and fighters for freedom is funding. afghanistan was one thing, there were links between bin laden, the taliban et al. but iraq? i agree that saddam isnt the nicest chap, but the whole thing seemed a bit of a power trip, finishing daddies work, some nice rebuilding contracts for cheney and co, lets just bomb something its a vote winner. michael moore may have his biases but at leasdt somebody in america is saying something rather than crap like 'we're the good guys', how dare they attack us, we're right everybody else is wrong. the US isn't the only country in the world guys.
July 16, 2004, 7:39 a.m. CST
"Jackass,Fuckwad,"obviously a recent graduate of the Al Franken school of charm, and debate. Hey, I saw Farenheit 911. Do you really think it was objective? Keep on with the Bush bashing hatefest, the conspiracy theories, about Bin Laden, the defunct Afhgan pipeline, and whining about the 2000 election. There are no opposing views to people like you, just personal attacks to people that disagree. Don't worry you'll have another Clinton to vote for in 2008. The only downside to A Kerry defeat in November. Oh, it should of read MOORE-RON, by the way. My faux pax.
July 17, 2004, 6:56 a.m. CST
by another documentary, picking up the lead where Al Francken left it. Can we get an review of it here? And there's another called 'The Corporation' that should be required viewing for all the stupid f*cking conts who worship the rich simply because they have a hard-on for their credit ratings. Why do cons describe themselves as Patriots. They loudly admit that they HATE a vast portion of the American people, about 50%, anybody who is liberal or lefty. They support the rape of the environment by industry, so they can't love the old 'amber wave of gold' or 'purple mountains majesty' unless it's beeing logged, drilled or strip-mined. They LOUDLY discredit the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the ideals of the Republic, so they have no love for what america is supposed to represent politically, since they seek to undermine the institutions of democracy, practise class-warfare and cupidity. They refuse to separate church and state and allow oligarchs to oppress their fellow citizens. all in all, Conservatives seem to love three things: investment capital, one-party tyranny and overseas imperialism. Compared to the America of The Constitution, the Ammerica of the people and the America of the great wildernesses, that's a pretty shabby little idol.
July 18, 2004, 11:05 a.m. CST
Say what you want about Michael Moore-at least he's asking questions. I'm not equating the two, but if more people had done what Moore is doing when people like Hitler were rising to power, the world could have prevented tons of suffering. You may not like how he does it, but I respect him for refusing to be force-fed the same old bullshit. He's not satisfied with tired governmental rhetoric-and none of us should be.
July 20, 2004, 1:02 a.m. CST
Well... Me being a person who DID THEIR FUCKING RESEARCH prior to Bush enacting an illegal war... I have to say... I TOLD YOU SO. Now... Does Mikey drive his point home hard enough? Well... from the reactions of citizens nationwide, I think he does. Michael Moore is a national treasure and should be revered as such. My only question is... what do you Republican half-wits see as Bush's contribution to the country? Unless you're all rich, I don't see a thing he and his cabal have done for you. They've fucked up the environment with conveniently labeled bills such as "THE CLEAN AIR AMENDMENT" (which actually repealed environmental legislation) and they've fucked up civil rights with bills labeled "THE PATRIOT ACT" (unfuckingbelievable huh?). Karl Rove and Co. are incredibly fucking devious. Name our legislation the correct way, and if our opponents vote against it, we only have to NAME THE FUCKING BILL AND IGNORANT MIDDLE AMERICAN FUCKS WILL ASSUME THAT LEGISLATORS HAVE VOTED "AGAINST" WHAT THE BILL WAS NAMED FOR!!! You ignorant conservative fucks, those of you who aren't rich, and I'm guessing that you talkbackers are 100% NOT RICH, please tell me what BUSH HAS DONE FOR YOU. JUST NAME THE LEGISTLATION, THE PROGRAMS, ETC. PLEASE!!! PROVIDE THE NATION WITH SOME EVIDENCE OF WHAT THIS INEPT PIECE OF SHIT HAS DONE TO JUSTIFY A SECOND TERM!
July 20, 2004, 1:08 a.m. CST
...is an example of all that is STUPID CONSERVATIVE AMERICA. Faced with the fact that they have no GODDAMN reason to support the BUSH cartel, the revert to name calling, and it's name calling in a most retarded way. They can't even begin to dispute the facts, for they are indisputable. You'll notice that after the film has come out, the fucktard conservatives have been VERY QUIET. With not FOX NEWS to protect them, they can't explain away the actions of the BUSH REGIME. Too Bad for you fucked up freaks - BUSH WILL BE A SAD FOOTNOTE FOR AMERICA and we will go on to be the LAND OF THE FREE AND THE BRAVE - FREE OF RHETORIC FROM YOU DELUDED NEO-CON FOOLS!!!!
July 20, 2004, 4:48 a.m. CST
...but I know one fruitcake who is. RUSH LIMBAUGH!! Not only is he a stupid white man, but he is a "big fat idiot"! (Al Franken). Look, we don't need no steenkeen conservatives threatening our nation to a civil anarchy and destruction. We have had enough of this shit. I think people need to see this movie to realise how shitty this world is! I thought the beheading of a saudi was pretty too damn much, but hey, this is normal. This reminded me of a part of the opening song I heard in the disney Aladdin movie, but they edited that part out when it was released on video, and it goes like this: "...where they CUT YOUR EAR IF THEY DON'T LIKE YOUR FACE! IT'S BARBARIC...BUT, HEY, IT'S HOME" Whatever, just go see the movie! It's really cool. oh, and one more thing for all of you soccer fans out there who are watching the Copa America this month...BRAZIL MADE MINCE MEAT OUT OF MEXICO!!! NO SE PUDO! NO SE PUDO! NO SE PUDO! and who the hell cares?! They're gonna lose again in the olympics, A PLAGUE FOR BEATING THE USA IN THE QUALIFYING ROUND!!
July 21, 2004, 11:11 a.m. CST
Bear with me in this novel cause you have it coming kid. What kind of researcher are you and how can you possibly come to the conclusion that Moore is some kind of treasure when the
July 31, 2004, 11:46 p.m. CST
by Warlock One
Well, no. It's a good movie, and a movie a lot of people should see. But it gets an honorary "10" for the sake of all the assholes who gave it a "zero" sight unseen. Grow up, you pathetic lockstep right-wing crybabies.
Aug. 1, 2004, 11:53 p.m. CST
President Bush has kept us safe. After 9/11 many were making predictions of numerous terrorist attacks taking place in the United States, comparable to the terrorism that has spread like a cancer in Europe, Asia, and of course, Israel. Yet, since 9/11/2001 we have yet to have the predicted terrorist attacks in the United States. Why? Because of the decisions and leadership of President Bush. Even the badly timed 9/11 commission concludes in its report that we are safer, although, obviously, not yet completely safe. But who, including the experts, would have predicted that there would be no attacks in the U.S., not even a lone suicide bomber. Make no mistake about it, the credit goes to the leadership of President Bush for keeping us safe, so far. His strategy must not be interrupted. In order to have any hope of safety in this country, President Bush must remain in office. Make no mistake about it, the war in Iraq is a major part of the strategy that has kept us safe. The terrorists who would have been murdering innocents here are now drawn to Iraq. President Bush has brilliantly moved the battlefield away from the homeland. Despite the lies of Michael Moore and John Kerry, Iraq was a haven and training ground for terrorists, including Al queada, a fact also confirmed by the 9/11 commission(no, it could not confirm specific cooperation for 9/11, in terms of evidence, but they found plenty of evidence of cooperation and communication). Moore put a negative spin on President Bush challenging the terrorists to "Bring it on" in the early stages of the Iraq war, but this was a brilliant move to draw the battle away from the United States, and allow our brave and heroic military to sacrifice and fight the terrorists in their own backyard, and eliminate them before they can reach our shores. Make no mistake, the last thing the terrorists want is a free and prosperous Iraq, based on democratic ideals of individual liberty and a free market, because once a people taste just a little of freedom and prosperity, they are less likely to become desperate and brainwashed suicide bombers who are influenced by those who have no sincere interest in religion but use fundamentalist religion as a tool to hold political power and influence, and expand that power. The true leaders of these terrorist groups do NOT have any sincere belief in the Muslim religion any more than Hitler sincerely believed the Germans were a superior race. They use religion, as Hitler used patriotism, as a tool for control,deception, and slavery of the will. Such tools are more effective against a desperate people who live in the dark ages and aren't allowed to freely participate in the dealings of the rest of the free world.Don't be fooled by those who call this a religious war. This is freedom versus slavery; liberty versus oppression. That is why the terrorists fear a free Iraq, because once freedom spreads, the people will fight for themselves to keep it. Liberals who say the Iraqi's can't handle freedom, and were better under Saddam are racists. Our founding fathers understood that liberty and freedom is a Natural Right, granted by the ultimate authority who created Nature, and is deserved by all people, no matter what race or religion. To deceptively portray an enslaved Iraq as some kind of utopia as Moore does is deception. To imply that Iraqi's are better off as slaves, and can't handle freedom, is racist. Defeating Saddam Hussein was the right thing to do on many levels, including being vital in the success of the war on terror and keeping us safe here at home in the U.S.,. President Bush has made us safer and liberated Iraq thanks to his leadership, despite the deception of our so-called "allies". Moore puts forward his own deception by claiming that we are less safe because President Bush "alienated" our allies, like France, Germany, and Russia. The fact is, these "allies" along with the United Nations were helping Saddam Hussein oppress his people. So, Michael Moore told Ted Koppel on nightline, when Mr. Koppel brought up the comparison of the difficulties of the Iraqi's fight for freedom with the American Revolution, and the help America got from its allies. Moore argued that it was ok for other countries to fight along side with the americans because americans initiated the uprising. What Moore deceptively does not mention is that the Iraqi people did try to initiate it but were overmatched by Saddam's military. Now , with the facts of the oil for food scandal coming out, we realized that the Iraqi people not only had Saddam's oppressive rule to deal with, but countries such as France, Germany, and Russia, and the entire United Nations was against them, and keeping them down. These are not the allies we need to be relying on to keep our country safe. These so called allies who are sympathetic and appease terrorists and terrorist nations, also would keep a people enslaved to keep their financial interests and not have their corruption revealed. Don't fall for the rhetoric that we would be safer with these corrupt governments on our side. Thank God for a true leader like President Bush. No one believed President Reagan could defeat communism in the same way no one believes we can win the war on terrorism. Thank God for true leaders like President Bush. Or, we could have someone like John Kerry who would submit to "allies" whose policies of appeasement with terrorists have led to widespread terrorism in their countries. God bless our troops and the people of Iraq who are fighting for their liberty.
Aug. 2, 2004, 12:02 a.m. CST
President Bush has kept us safe. After 9/11 many were making predictions of numerous terrorist attacks taking place in the United States, comparable to the terrorism that has spread like a cancer in Europe, Asia, and of course, Israel. Yet, since 9/11/2001 we have yet to have the predicted terrorist attacks in the United States. Why? Because of the decisions and leadership of President Bush. Even the badly timed 9/11 commission concludes in its report that we are safer, although, obviously, not yet completely safe. But who, including the experts, would have predicted that there would be no attacks in the U.S., not even a lone suicide bomber. Make no mistake about it, the credit goes to the leadership of President Bush for keeping us safe, so far. His strategy must not be interrupted. In order to have any hope of safety in this country, President Bush must remain in office. Make no mistake about it, the war in Iraq is a major part of the strategy that has kept us safe. The terrorists who would have been murdering innocents here are now drawn to Iraq. President Bush has brilliantly moved the battlefield away from the homeland. Despite the lies of Michael Moore and John Kerry, Iraq was a haven and training ground for terrorists, including Al queada, a fact also confirmed by the 9/11 commission(no, it could not confirm specific cooperation for 9/11, in terms of evidence, but they found plenty of evidence of cooperation and communication). Moore put a negative spin on President Bush challenging the terrorists to "Bring it on" in the early stages of the Iraq war, but this was a brilliant move to draw the battle away from the United States, and allow our brave and heroic military to sacrifice and fight the terrorists in their own backyard, and eliminate them before they can reach our shores. Make no mistake, the last thing the terrorists want is a free and prosperous Iraq, based on democratic ideals of individual liberty and a free market, because once a people taste just a little of freedom and prosperity, they are less likely to become desperate and brainwashed suicide bombers who are influenced by those who have no sincere interest in religion but use fundamentalist religion as a tool to hold political power and influence, and expand that power. The true leaders of these terrorist groups do NOT have any sincere belief in the Muslim religion any more than Hitler sincerely believed the Germans were a superior race. They use religion, as Hitler used patriotism, as a tool for control,deception, and slavery of the will. Such tools are more effective against a desperate people who live in the dark ages and aren't allowed to freely participate in the dealings of the rest of the free world.Don't be fooled by those who call this a religious war. This is freedom versus slavery; liberty versus oppression. That is why the terrorists fear a free Iraq, because once freedom spreads, the people will fight for themselves to keep it. Liberals who say the Iraqi's can't handle freedom, and were better under Saddam are racists. Our founding fathers understood that liberty and freedom is a Natural Right, granted by the ultimate authority who created Nature, and is deserved by all people, no matter what race or religion. To deceptively portray an enslaved Iraq as some kind of utopia as Moore does is deception. To imply that Iraqi's are better off as slaves, and can't handle freedom, is racist. Defeating Saddam Hussein was the right thing to do on many levels, including being vital in the success of the war on terror and keeping us safe here at home in the U.S.,. President Bush has made us safer and liberated Iraq thanks to his leadership, despite the deception of our so-called "allies". Moore puts forward his own deception by claiming that we are less safe because President Bush "alienated" our allies, like France, Germany, and Russia. The fact is, these "allies" along with the United Nations were helping Saddam Hussein oppress his people. So, Michael Moore told Ted Koppel on nightline, when Mr. Koppel brought up the comparison of the difficulties of the Iraqi's fight for freedom with the American Revolution, and the help America got from its allies. Moore argued that it was ok for other countries to fight along side with the americans because americans initiated the uprising. What Moore deceptively does not mention is that the Iraqi people did try to initiate it but were overmatched by Saddam's military. Now , with the facts of the oil for food scandal coming out, we realized that the Iraqi people not only had Saddam's oppressive rule to deal with, but countries such as France, Germany, and Russia, and the entire United Nations was against them, and keeping them down. These are not the allies we need to be relying on to keep our country safe. These so called allies who are sympathetic and appease terrorists and terrorist nations, also would keep a people enslaved to keep their financial interests and not have their corruption revealed. Don't fall for the rhetoric that we would be safer with these corrupt governments on our side. Thank God for a true leader like President Bush. No one believed President Reagan could defeat communism in the same way no one believes we can win the war on terrorism. Thank God for true leaders like President Bush. God bless our troops and the people of Iraq who are fighting for their liberty.
Aug. 4, 2004, 1:06 a.m. CST
Hey Republican Fucktards, read about all of the unreported Bush Scandals. There is absolutely no doubt! The corporate media is in Bush's pocket! If Clinton had had one twentieth of Bush's Lies and Corrupt dealings going on, he would've been impeached in no time. However, seeing that it's Bush, the media hails the fucking moron like he's a goddamn war hero. Simply unbelievable. And unbelieveable solely for the fact that the dumb sheep in this country don't wake up and see Bush for what he is... A corporate controlled idiot. See some of Bush's bullshit here at: http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/08/con04323.html Bush... the fucking moron that the red states salute. The red states should be embarrassed...
Nov. 3, 2004, 2:22 p.m. CST
When it did nothing to sway the vote in November 2004. Maybe people are just not that interested in what fat-ass liberals have to say?
Jan. 27, 2005, 6:32 p.m. CST
Down with Bush!
March 26, 2006, 6:23 p.m. CST
Say what you want about the film-but it made me both angry and happy.And THAT'S what makes a great movie!