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Michael Moore
Hi, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab...
Y’know, AICN gets accused of being completely pinko commie hyperliberal, and I can see why. Harry’s completely sincere about his politics, and like most people these days, when he has an opportunity to tie his political opinions in to his opinion on anything else, he does. Heck, I love that Grande Rojo wears his heart on his sleeve that way. What disturbs me is when conservative readers feel that they aren’t welcome here or that they hate the entire site because they disagree with one person’s politics or opinions.
Y’see, one of the things I love about this site is that Harry and I can disagree radically on a lot of things, but still co-edit a website and respect each other’s opinions. He loves Michael Moore and has already done a fairly rabid job of pimping FAHRENHEIT 911. Personally, I think the guy’s a shameless carnival barker with no interest in being a documentary filmmaker anymore. He’s a rabble rouser with an agenda and a bullhorn, and even if I think he occasionally has an interesting idea or makes a point with a certain sledgehammer wit, I also think he undermines himself and buries those good ideas under a mountain of self-congratulatory horseshit that keeps me at a distance as a viewer.
Having said that, we’re getting slammed with e-mail about the trailer for F911 being posted, so here we go...
I'm sure you've gotten this dozens of times by now, but just in case you haven't, Michael Moore’s site has the farenheit 9/11 trailer up now (along with it's shiny new release date of June 25th, if memory serves us right). Trailer is pretty good, about what you'd think it would be, but the last shot in it is a riot.
I'd also understand you not posting anything about it because the M.Moore-related talkbacks that become political roundtables from retard hell are a bit tiresome. Anywhoo, thanks for the site. Have fun.
Blahblahface.The talkbacks are par for the course these days, blahblahface. It seems that it is impossible to have a political discussion in or about this country anymore without it turning into a name-calling screaming match where people argue at each other instead of actually listening to what one another is saying. Our party system is so broken that the only sane response I can see is to try to step outside of it. I would be embarrassed to call myself either “liberal” or “conservative” at this point with the way both words have been co-opted by screaming weenies.
I’ll go check the trailer out, though, as soon as I finish posting this morning’s stories, just out of curiosity...
"Moriarty" out.
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I am looking forward to seeing this movie. Is anyone else?
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The sky is blue and Bush is a dangeous idiot. Republicans know this too. I have a lot of blue-collar conservative friends and co-workers who voted for Bush in '00... none of them plan to do so again. Most are just staying home election day-- that's how dispirited they are-- or else writing in McCain (who should've won in '00 to begin with). They are patriots same as me and there are no arguments over Iraq any more... it's accepted by everyone but Coulter (the Ted Rall of the right) and Bush himself that the Iraq war was a stupid idea and has gone from bad to worse.
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This streaming crap is driving me insane...It stops, the image freezes. I've had it! give me a downloadble trailer. I'm going insane here.
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Now I got it to work. Holy Mackarel. This is the movie of the summer! That trailer gave me goosebumps....oh man...there are so many money shots in that 2 minute clip. "We don't read most of the bills" "Let the Eagles soar!" "now watch this drive."
oh man... -
There's a great atricle in the UK Edition of Empire magazine last month with John Milius. In the aticle he shreds Moore apart and although he does rant on a bit, some of the points he makes about him are very valid and made me look on Moore in a different light. The jist of the article was that Milius says that Moore puts himself across as a man of the people, standing up for the Yanks as he thinks you are unable to do it yourself. Yet on the other hand he goes everywhere in a limo, drinks nothing but Champagne and generally lives it up while giving everyone around him the finger. I can see his point to be fair, but if I had his money I'd been doing the same thing, plus a lot fucking more. The artile for anyone interested is well worth a look though.
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Perhaps they are too embarassed to admit how great this trailer is (from a marketing standpoint), or maybe they're too scared about how many people will go see this and have their eyes opened before November. As it's already been said, you'd have to have your head shoved pretty far up the Elephant's ass to not recognize the power of those 2 minutes.
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John Milius also say that if he had the chance to go to Iraq he would have loved to put a gun on the head of an Iraqi.
I prefer a guy like Michael Moore. Who cares if he drives around in a limo? -
Even if it's just a feature film version of those GEORGE W. BUSHISMS books, it'll be awesome.
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IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ME YOU MUST BE A FUCKNUT, ASSHAT, RETARDED MOTHERFUCKER, ASSHOLE, SIMPLETON, FUCKWIT, COCKSMOKER, COCKKNOCKER, PUSSYWHIPPED CHEESEDICK, COMPLETE BABBLING MORONIC HALFNUT, OVERLY SENSITIVE REACTIONARY BLIND RAT MOLESTER, AND SOMEONE WHO HAS NO RESPECT FOR HIMSELF/HERSELF WITH NO REGARD FOR THE REST OF HUMANITY OR THE COUNTRY IN WHICH THEY LIVE IN!!!!!...And thus, have a nice day! - - - George, The 7th Chicken!!!!
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Jun 03, 2004 6:24:16 AM CDT
"Not a liberal or a conservative"? Mmm, watched that Chris Rock
by heywood jablomie
Well, to Chris and Moriarty I say: bullshit! In this day and age, there is no "I'm kinda this, but I'm sorta that." The battle lines are drawn and the future, literally the goddam future of the world, hangs in the balance. So do I care that you're old-schooly on Federal Reserve policy? No. Are you with us or against us?
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Jun 03, 2004 6:51:10 AM CDT
I'm a conservative. I'm a Christian. That's a helluva good tra
by cknightshift
...and I'm the furthest thing from being a Michael Moore fan either. But just going by the trailer, he's hitting on all the right cylinders with this one. No real conservative or Christian could possibly condone or support the fascism that Dubyah is bringing this country into. I pray every day that he would go down in flames this November. If he wins, there's gonna be a lot of people that are going to take it as a "mandate from God" that their man can do no wrong. If you thought the PATRIOT Act, the Transportation Safety albatross and everything else that's happened the past 3 years have been bad, you ain't seen nothing yet if Bush gets a second term. And, there'll be enough people in this land who will be hellbent on LETTING HIM GET AWAY WITH IT. REAL conservatives and followers of Christ don't worship raw might and power as Bush and his followers do... nor do we believe in the waste of innocent lives for no reason as is happening with this Iraq war. It was doomed to fail from the start: you can't bestow freedom and democracy on a people who haven't wanted it or fought to earn it for themselves to begin with. I haven't seen a Michael Moore film since "Roger and Me" (and that was just out of morbid curiosity) but this looks to be must-see viewing.
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Yeah, the trailer for The Phantom Menace was good too...The second I hear Moore's name attached it sets off warning bells.
Will this make me not see the movie? No, I'll go see it. But I think Moore is a loud mouth sellout only interested in stirring shit by firmly placing and promoting himself in the middle of any tragedy he can and is more interested in filling his wallet.
http://www.mooreexposed.com/
"Should a 320 lb man advise us on the evils of overconsumption? -
First: I love your nickname. Second: You said that, "In my lifetime of observing politics and the media, this is by far the most outrageous and baseless attempt to slander a sitting president that I have ever seen." I dunno man, the eight years of shit tossed at Bill and Hillary Clinton seems to be up there. How many millions were spent getting Kenneth Starr to find out if the Prez got a hummer or not? How many trailer trash floozies were trotted out by conservative groups to speak of their liasons with Bill? As if that had ANY impact on the nation and American lives. 800 young people have died in President Bush's attempt to make Iraq safe for Cheney and Co. This seems to warrant a more careful look than a semen-stained dress, no? Just my opinion.
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No, I don't know why, and I don't even care about Moore, his films, or, in fact, who the next president of USA is going to be, but exclaiming "PLANT!" is an AICN tradition, isn't it? And since nobody's done it yet...
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Jun 03, 2004 8:37:49 AM CDT
Am I the only one unable to get this damn thing to work??
by theginger twit
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It ain't right to abuse stock AICN jokes for no good reason, brother!
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It looks very watchable, with the reserve that Moore's films are becoming less and less documentaries and more opinion pieces: if you're going to pick and choose evidence and statistics to back up an argument that you already have in mind before you start shooting, you're not making a documentary. What's more, you risk sinking to the level of manipulation of the very people you are trying to criticise - which is a dangerous road to go down if you want to retain any sense of credibility or impartiality.
That said, it's a great trailer. The quote at the end is excellent - but the film has to be more than just examples of how foolish Bush is. Whilst I could watch a film like that all day, it wouldn't be the film that Moore has been trumpeting. -
It is as if you reached into my brain. While you were there you lifted my thoughts on Moore and political discussion. Then you got out of my brain and went through my dvd collection. THEN you took anything I had with the indestructible LEE VAN CLEEF, and replaced it with Brian Bosworth tv movies. But yes I agree wholeheartedly with you.
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All your freedoms all the time
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First let me say that Michael Moore and people like Bill Maher are our last hope for freedom of expression and intelligent thinking in this country. They see right through the conservative political bullshit that Bush supporters spew forth as gospel.
I find it sad and pathetic that all the Michael Moore haters can never come up with PROOF something Moore has said is wrong or inaccurate.
From what I've read (books, web, etc.), Moore almost always has a quick response to his detractors and proof to back it up.
These conservative idiots that support Bush are too busy shouting at the liberals to back up their arguments with any facts.
Could it be that they have no arguement and only want to distract by making a lot of noise?
I think so. -
However, Calling them like I see them. Thats is a differnt story entirely. I just wanted to respond to Moriarty's comment about how some people feel they are not welcome on this site due to their political views. I am a conservative and have never felt anything other than free to express my opinions on this site. I have written in a number of reviews and a couple have been posted over the last few years. I've known that Harry is a liberal ever since the beginning. However, that does not meen I dislike him. Harry, Moriarty, and the others keep this wonderful site alive and kicking proving that one man (or a very small group) of Hollywood outsiders can make a huge difference in that industry. I love the site folks keep up the great work. Now, as for my views on Mr. Moore. In my opinion Mr. Moore used to be a brilliant Documentarian. However, ever since he went Hollywood he has swung so far to the left he is quite incapable of staying oblective. Mr. Moore has lost his objectivity, in my eyes since Bowling for Columbine. He just spews his personal opinions as fact and always spins his subject material to his completly skewed views of life as he sees it. No longer does he try to present the facts to inform and let the audience decide for themselves. He feels he has to spread disinformation to get his point of view accross not realizing how he invalidates himself in the process. I make decisions in my life on facts and my best judgement not the spin of someone elses opinions. However, I do have to applaud Mr. Moore on not being afraid of exercising his right to free speach. However, Mr. Moore would do well to remember that it is and was administrations like thios one who are protecting the rights that we hold so dear. So keep up the great work here at AICN. Talk to ya again soon. Just remeber, Ask youself if After 9-11 Osama Bin Laden became a voter in our counrty who would he vote for for president? Once you've answered that then vote for the alternative.
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Seymour Hersch wrote an article in the New Yorker about three weeks after September 11th reporting this business with getting bin laden's relatives out of the country. What this trailer -- and this film, apparently -- neglects to mention is that bin laden has something like 800 half-brothers, half-sisters, uncles, cousins, aunts, half-aunts, ecetera, and the laden family (they don't use the "bin" anymore) remains very powerful in Saudi Arabia, and has disowned bin laden. The people they "got" out of the country were only distantly related to him, and many of them--including more than a few women, interestingly enough--were educated here or were going to college here at schools like Columbia, Princeton, Stanford. That they would be ferreted out of the country in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 shouldn't come as such a shocker. It's one of those things that looks terrible, almost impossibly corrupt and horrifying on the surface, but only if you don't stop to think how complicated the world really is. As for the rest, pursuing Congressmen and asking them to sign a pledge that they will enlist their sons to go to Iraq is an ambush stunt, and I think if you're at all fair-minded, it's easy to see why. While we can all agree that it's not exactly the rich kids who fight on the frontline of any war, this doesn't change the fact that there is no draft, so we're not really talking about the "fortunate son" Viet Nam scenario--though Moore is clearly relying on those overtones to indict these congressmen. But more importantly, it's up to the individual who is 18 to decide whether they want to serve in the military or not, and so it's pointless (even self-defeating) for Moore to ask a Congressman dad to effectively draft his son or daughter on the spot. And if I were a repubican congressman--hell, if I were a democratic congressman--I'd refuse to talk to Moore and walk away quickly as well, because he is admittedly and proudly and prominantly partisan, in complete control of whatever footage you give him. If you were "the enemy," as he's referred to republicans, would you give him the time of day, give him face time that he could edit and isolate? We might also note that OF COURSE no one actually reads the Patiot Act, or any bill. Why? Because they are so long. Congressmen read summaries prepared by aides. We learn this in 5th grade social studies. This is a surprise? A revelation? A smoking gun? Moore riding around in a van with a bullhorn, reading the Patriot Act aloud, is somehow brave or clever? Next: Am I supposed to be blown away or surprised because businesses look to exploit and make money off war, and that the government actually facilitates this? This is news? Evidence of a conspiracy? Finally, I've seen those outtakes of the president playing golf and at the dinner before. This is new footage? A smoking gun? For every president of the last 20 years, there are similarly embarrassing, stupid outtakes. That's why they're called "outtakes." I can recall a Clinton outttake where he's laughing uncontrollably at something Boris Yeltsin said, and he sounds like a silly little girl gigglepuss and it just goes on and on and makes him look like a stupid country bumpkin. I can recall a Ted Kennedy outtake from the last time he ran for re-election where he sounds horribly drunk at a rally, and he says that Clinton is, and has always been, "as unelectable as the rest of us." These things are meaningless. Bush might have thought the cameras were off when he said watch this drive--as President, you're with the media and cameramen everyday, and I suppose you'd arrive at a rythmn and a feel for when the cameras are on or off, regardless of whether the red light is actually on or not, and there'd be a tacit, shared understanding of when your official pronouncement was done and you were letting go of your game face. What surprises me is not that there is such footage, but that anyone should express surprise at it's existence. Nothing that appears in this trailer--or, from what I've read, in the movie--is a surprise. I'd actually hoped for something more substantial, because Bush surely does need to be attacked and indicted for his policies.
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Is that it isn't about what happened (or what did not happen) on 9-11. And the fact that those who most profited from the attacks were the Bush administration, the CIA, FBI, Pentagon, Armed Forces, Halliburton, etc., and Osama Bin Laden and global terrorism. After all, had 9-11 not happened, there is NO way people would have sanctioned the Afghanistan invasion. And without 9-11 setting up the looting of Afghanistan, there is no way any connection, no matter how stupid or bullshit, could have been made with Iraq so as to get the public all worked up. But as we know, the invasion of Iraq was planned by these people already in the late 90's. And Afghanistan was also planned before 9-11. And some even mentioned the need for "a new Pearl Harbor" as justification for putting these plans into practice. 9-11, manna from heaven.
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...which explains why the world got along so much better after he became president. HAR, HAR, HAR.
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I actually agree with Drew. As far as this site being "unfriendly to conservatives" I would say that it's kind of like gays in the military, it's okay if you are as long as you don't talk about it. Both parties have their flaws. I'm a Republican by nature, though I don't agree with some of the parties beliefs (abortion, gay marriage, censorship by the FCC). I am torn about November, because I have strong reservations about voting for Bush again. At the same time, there is no way in hell I'll vote for Kerry. Kind of sucks for me. The funniest thing about the liberals/conservatives, Michael Moore lovers/haters debates is it seems no one can state their opinion without name calling and accusations. I don't like Moore, though I thought Bowling for Columbine was an entertaining movie. The problem I had with it was it was soooo biased, and it did bend (if not outright break) the truth on many occasions. I think his point was strong enough not to have to do that, but he did anyway. For this statement. I will probably be called a Nazi, a Neo-Con, and many worse things. My problem with Michael Moore (besides the aforementioned truth issues) is also one of the major problems I have with Kerry. They refuse to acknowledge what they are: rich and part of the elite. I don't have a problem with them being rich, but they try to pawn themselves off as being in touch with the common-man. They aren't. I'm far from rich, but I do okay, and the problems with the economy haven't affected me at all, other than paying a little more at the pump. I don't try to understand all of the problems of everyone, but I wouldn't feel confortable saying that I am in touch with the poor working class, because I don't feel their pain, and neither do either of these two. And yes I realize Bush doesn't either, but I don't think he plays the "I'm one of you" card nearly as much or as hard. Notice how I stated my opinions without calling anyone names, making rash generalizations, or being rude. But to many, just 'cause I am a moderate conservative that voted for Bush in '00, to many I am a Nazi.
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You'd do well to read Bob Woodward's _Bush at War_ and _Plan of Attack_, or even to have paid attention to the 9/11 hearings, or even the news on CNN. What you've said in your post about having a plan in place to invade Afganistan is simply untrue. That war was improvised--there was no plan in place, and no desire and no mandate--from this or any administration--to intervene militarily in Afghanistan at any point prior to 9/11. Yes, there was a plan to invade Iraq, and it was crafted in the mid 90s, and it was essentially Gulf War Redux, a carbon copy of the first Persian Gulf invasion, and was redone and recast following 9/11. But you might consider that official US policy in Iraq has been regime change since the end of that first war. And note that we have war plans in place for Korea and a host of other countries. Doesn't mean we're going to act on them. We had a million different plans for war with the Soviet Union--didn't happen, and doesn't mean the decision to go to war is predetermined.
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Jun 03, 2004 10:51:20 AM CDT
Aw, who cares? When's Moore gonna make "Canadian Bacon 2"?
by rev_skarekroe
I mean, what's John Candy doing these days? Just layin' around, right? sk
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hes not a filmmaker anymore he has a leftist agenda that no one listens to anyway
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It accomplished precisely what it set out to do, namely, enticing its audience to see the movie. I'll be there on June 25, for sure.
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Unhappy Fat Kid in the back of the class, spankin it to the cheerleaders every night, but not man enough to ever even say hi to one. He gives Bush WAY too much credit...here's a news flash: France, Russia, and most of old Europe has been becoming more and more alienated over the last fifteen years as we need them less and less because of the lesser Soviet threat. They are alienated because their nearby eastern former soviet block neighbors are flooded with American investment instead of Europes investment. They are alinated because of the weaker Euro, weakened world standing, and slow realization that they exert little influence over anything but Europe anymore. France and Russia were the biggest opponents to the Iraq war because they were owed the most money by the Hussein regime. Period. It all boils down to $$$$ people. Us too. If you think Bush orchestrated that...you're nuts. Israel: been killin each other forever, literally. Most of written history....yeah, we're gonna solve that one. Bush is no genius, Kerry is even less, and Michael Moore is a hothead dreamer living in Lala land. If the whole world was water except for Moore's head, I'd still pee in his face.
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Sorry, don't have the patience now to rehash my past posts (http://www.aintitcool.com/tb_display.cgi?id=17624), so I'll just recommend some further reading as well: "Before and After: US Foreign Policy and the September 11th Crisis" (Phyllis Bennis), "War and Globalization: The Truth Behind September 11" (Michel Chossudovsky), "The New Crusade: American's War on Terrorism" and "Full Spectral Dominance: US Power in Iraq and Beyond"(Rahul Mahajan), "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions about the Bush Administration and 9-11" (David Ray Griffin), and definately check out this site: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project **** About Afghanistan. Please. Don't react without thinking and immediately get on the defensive. As we know, there had been a growing distance between the US and the Taliban - despite previous contacts and aid, and the proposed UNOCAL pipeline that didn't pan out. In fact, CentGas, which was formed by Unocal and includes Delta Oil of Saudi Arabia, was created in order to construct pipelines through Afghanistan and Pakistan that would allow for the transportation of oil and gas from Turkmenistan to the Indian Ocean. This is what a Sept. 2000 Energy Information Fact Sheet published by the US government said: "Afghanistan's significance from an energy standpoint stems from its geographic position as a potential transit route for oil and natural gas exports from Central Asia to the Arabian Sea. This potential includes proposed multibillion dollar oil and gas export pipelines through Afghanistan.
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don't feel like answering every single stupid question that is obviously gonna come up. Besides, I've got exams coming up. So just read this shit: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project , which should take a long time and effort. Someone send the link to Bush with the message that bit by bit the world is getting its' facts straight. And when that happens.... off to a war crimes tribunal. And a lethal injection (after being a 'bitch' for some 900 pound gorilla).
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1. many people sat on their asses
2. and too many of those that didn't wasted votes on Nader
yes, Gore and especially Lieberman are pricks, but anything would've been better than the Executive Branch we're stuck with right now
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Jun 03, 2004 12:21:35 PM CDT
The movie is about what Moore finds in between his fat folds
by matthooper8
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michael moore is a hack. 'moonraker', 'octopussy'?!?! c'mon, seriously. he's washed up and hasn't done a decent movie since 'the spy who loved me'.
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This includes Bush... this includes Moore. Everyone has an agenda... and tend to lay down facts, only if it supports their cause. Putting too much trust in one party or individual, seems arrogant.
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Jun 03, 2004 12:47:51 PM CDT
Wow, a big fat lie in the trailer! Moore doesn't waste time, doe
by durendal
Moore mentions the post-9/11 ushering of Suadis and bin Ladens out of the country, says it came from the top levels, and GWB's name comes right up on the screen in bold. Too bad the order DID NOT COME FROM BUSH! Richard Clarke has already said that HE gave the order, not someone above him! Nice one Moore. Keep talking out of your ass. Of course, he could just claim that GWB's name came up by coincidence and that he wasn't really trying to say that Bush gave the order. What a fucking load. Moore is a lying, egotistical bastard.
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Jun 03, 2004 12:57:30 PM CDT
Bill Maher is a Bush/ Republican basher, not the same thing as a
by nflrefugee
If you really listen to Maher he is not exactly anti-war. Yes, he is against the Iraq war but not in general. He speaks favorably of Vietnam and how it was a noble cause (which I can't understand). If you watch his last HBO special, Victory Begins at Home, he sounds jingoistic (we love that word at AICN talkbacks). Really listen to him. BTW I am a registered Democrat, who voted for and loved Clinton. I started leaning more conservative during the 2000 election, because Gore was crazy liberal. I voted for Bush in 2000 more as a protest against Gore, but also because he made a lot more sense (strange). But I do not intend to support him this go around, unless he really shows me something in the next few months. (Firing Tenent was a good step) But I don't want to vote for Kerry because he hasn't shown an vision or leadership skills. Not liking George Bush doesn't qualify you as next President in my opinion. You can dislike him but you need to show why you are better. Kerry in my opinion has not done that. Basically, on November 2nd I will vote for whoever didn't piss me off that day. Strange how it works.
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don't tell me Apple found a new way to not let us get direct links anymore!!!!
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don't tell me Apple found a new way to not let us get direct links anymore!!!!
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College kids gravitate to Moore's propaganda like lemmings. They think he can see through all the political retheroic and reveal the truth. The fact is he's the one shoveling most of the shit on to your feet. People may hate republicans for having traditionalist values, but Moore is just a liar. His views are just as radical as a conservative. -
The man is a sleaze of the first rank. You think he cares about you and this country? Wrong. Well, that's not toally true. He cares...if the price is right. The man charges $20,000 to give lectures at colleges, and the colleges have to pay for the hotel and food, etc. The man may have made some good movies in the past with some sort of good intent. But now he's gotten too big for his largely oversized britches. He's gotten full of himself and its now all about the money. And he says capitalism is bad, and the US is concerned only with gaining wealth? He should look in the mirror.
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Did I say Richard Clarke DIDN'T say that? The Bush and Clinton admins both dropped the ball on terrorism, but that's not much of a surprise seeing as how the FBI and CIA have become massively cluttered beaurocracies. But you go ahead and try to divert the subject and throw out personal attacks. It's really helping your side of the argument. And you failed to address my earlier point: Moore told a fat lie at the beginning of the trailer. Quit throwing out red herrings.
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Let's get it all on the table, Ok? #1- Democrats, They want to steal every penny you have first, and let you bitch about it all you want, while acting like a mother figure who wants to protect you from all "bad things" #2- Republicans, They want you to shut up and get in line, do what you're told, and pray every night before going to sleep, while acting like a stern father figure who wants to "Harden you up" against the wolves. #3- Greens, They are what Libertarians call "Watermelons" - Green on the outside but Red on the inside. #4- Libertarians, Don't give a shit what you do or how you do it. Just stay the fuck out of thier wallets/bedrooms/churches/SUV's or you'll get a belly full of lead. And yes, I am a libertarian and extremely biased. So there. http://www.lp.org/
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Holy shit. I just read the article about the draft and all I can say is your country is fucked!!!!
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Why should conservatives feel like they are not welcome? Is it because most of their ideology is based largely on either misinterpreted facts or blatant lies? No doubt, they prefer conservative havens like the Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity shows where the truth has no place and where everyone can sit around and pat each other on the back for possessing the amazing ability to exist in an alternate universe that does not even come close to resembling reality. They are understandably disturbed by any opposing point of view that intrudes on their warped version of events, but still, things need not degenerate into useless name-calling. As I've said before, don't talk about the size of your balls or how hairy your sack is, don't quote RNC spin points or the latest wisdom from the mouth of Savage, and for God's sake, stop telling people to shut up simply because you don't like what they are saying. Make an intelligent argument for your point of view using actual facts and you would be more than welcome. I think most people from either side would enjoy a spirited debate with someone who does not see things as they do. However, nobody likes arguing with a moron who has no idea what they are talking about. Now I'm obviously liberal but conservatives can make some interesting points sometimes . . . you just rarely seen it done by the ones who happen to visit this site.
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Please stop trying to compare Bush's Iraq war to Clinton's invasion of Bosnia in terms of international support. While it is true that neither was authorized by a UN mandate, the similarities end there and any further comparison is disingenuous at best. 14 of the 15 members on the UN Security Council voted to authorize Clinton's invasion, and the mandate was stopped by Russia's lone veto. Clinton then went to NATO where he received unanimous support from all 19 member nations. Bush declined to even hold a vote in the UN because it was clear that he would not even gain the support of a so-called "moral majority". If even 8 of the 15 members on the Security Council had supported him, he would have happily touted that a majority of the UN was behind him. Hard to claim international support when that number was somewhere between 3 and 5 and NATO was always a no-go.
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all those unflattering video clips of Dubya...MM is the man!
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Moriarty sounds like Bill O'Reily, because he wants to be considered an Independent. This website does spin...oh, yes. It spins like a Liberal on a merry-go-round.
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we need more savvy people to expose the crooked, shady Boosh regime to the light of day. -
Jun 03, 2004 3:34:28 PM CDT
When BUSH wins (and he will), you bunch of Liberal Democrats wil
by jeditemple
Bwahahahahaha!!!
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Jun 03, 2004 3:44:55 PM CDT
SeeThroughThis, you're the fucking liar here, and a lousy one to
by durendal
http://www.hillnews.com/news/052604/clarke.aspx There's the link to the story about Clarke claiming sole responsibility. Way to keep throwing out those red herrings! WMD have what to do with Moore, exactly? Read the article, dipshit. And I NEVER said I "loved" From Dusk 'til Dawn. I said it was a decent horror flick, and there's a big difference between it and Kill Bill. Dusk 'til Dawn was just a mindless and fairly fun killing of vampires. Kill Bill was a lousy attempt at being artsy and campy all at the same time. But what does that have to do with Moore? Nothing. Now you're exaggerating things about me. Way to go, assclown. Keep making bullshit up and trying to distract from my initial statement.
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To the person who asked who bin Laden would vote for . . . the answer without a doubt is George W. Bush. The Bush presidency has been a boon like no other to al Queda. Israeli/Palestinian peace negations are in shambles, we
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McCain isn't a RINO (Republican in Name Only) as a lot of people want to make him out to be. Actually, McCain is quite conservative and he fully backs the Iraq war. It's true. Thats why I always get a kick out of Democrats (which I am) and Liberal Republicans thinking he is the answer. If you can think back to the 2000 campaign Bush was actually at the center, while McCain was at the right. Which is why Bush got the nominee. McCain is staunchly pro-life, pro-war, pro-death penalty and ant-gay marriage. Granted, he doesn't kiss up to the Christian right (a plus in my book) but he is not the answer to the USA's problems. He sells it better than a lot of politicians, has a wonderful bullshit detector, and I certainly do respect him but he isn't the answer.
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The conservative writer/commentator Fred Barnes of the semi-conservative Weekly Standard says that Michael Moore lied in one of his books about a non-existent phone call between the two where Moore got Barnes to admit he didn't know what the Iliad and Odyssey were after bemoaning the state of public education on the McLaughlin Group tv show. Barnes says the phone call never took place and that anyway, he does in fact know what those works of Homer were. Maybe Barnes is lying, but I seriously doubt that he was unaware of what the Iliad and Odyssey were considering he went to school at a time when the classics were emphasized more. Another possible one is this whole deal about Bush letting the Bin Laden family leave w/o interrogation after 9-11, or whatever the charge is. Richard Clark, the former terrorism czar and guy who just released a book critical of Bush's handling of the terrorist threat, told The Hill magazine that he made the decision to let those Saudi's leave the country. So there are two possibilities. I've also heard him make statements that at the least are misleading or innaccurate. I heard him on C-SPAN once go on a rant about several issues and how the majority of Americans actually favor the liberal side. The problem was the multitude of issues he addressed; some indeed were ones where the public favors the Dem/left's position, but others he mentioned -- like aborition, gay marriage, immigration, gun control, taxes, racial preferences -- are issues where the majority either clearly favors the conservative position, or where its too complicated to brush with such a broad stroke. For example, most people are against abortion on demand, yet they oppose an outright ban. Most people favor some sort of handgun registration/licensing, yet they oppose banning handguns. Of course this type of cheerleading is common amongst the talking heads, but its still misleading nonetheless.
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and it's about our medical infrastructure in the States, with a focus on psychiatric care.
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Interesting point about bin Laden's numerous relatives but the part about his family having disowned him is misinformed at best. This is a favorite spin point of Republicans who like to justify Shrub's cozy relationship to the Saudi Royal family. Apparently Moore's movie contains video of Osama's mother and a number of his sisters (some of whom are the very same people we evacuated after 9/11) attending the wedding of Osama's son 6 months before 9/11 and Osama was there! Now I haven't seen the movie yet, but if he does indeed have this footage, it's pretty hard to make the
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Jun 03, 2004 5:11:53 PM CDT
www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com This is a movie about Michael
by islander
Looks like Michael Moore is being himself in his new movie trailer. Being a big jerk. I plan on seeing Michael Moore Hates America.
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Since Clarke earned his salary for working the terrorism desk, his FUNCTION was to sit in on meetings and when his turn to speak came up, to say, "We should do more about terrorism." Bureaucratic meetings being what they are, anti-terrorism spending could have risen to 98% of GDP and Clarke's function at those meetings would STILL have been to say, "We should be doing more about terrorism." And the really fun part of having that job is that no matter what happens, eventually a terrorist strike SOMEWHERE is going to succeed, and then you can quit your job and write a book called "I Told Them To Do More About Terrorism". And if you are particularly shameless you can jump in front of the cameras and display crocodile tears over your PREWRITTEN remarks [Who gets choked up over a speech that they have PRACTICED? Come on, this is a film site, so you know the answer: an actor]. I hate bureaucrats so much I could just shit.
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"Ask youself if After 9-11 Osama Bin Laden became a voter in our counrty who would he vote for for president? Once you've answered that then vote for the alternative."
Well, seeing how Bush & Co have handed Osama one unprecedented recruiting opportunity after another (AND let his family go... which is a shame, maybe they could have given us some info on the guy)... I guess I have my answer. My guess is that Bin Laden has Bush-Cheney stickers all OVER his camel. -
"...if you're going to pick and choose evidence and statistics to back up an argument that you already have in mind before you start shooting, you're not making a documentary."
Claiming that documentary filmmaking is somehow by definition unbiased is like saying the same thing of newswriting. Everything has a slant. Moore's films just have a very very visible one. Its sad and frustrating that people are too blind by their own desire for validation one way or the other to see either of those things. -
If you think that Moore's arguments in BFC are contradictory you don't understand the point of the film. What he is doing is investigating the issue. He never tries to answer the question as he knows, unlike you idiots, that there is no answer. And as for the "Truth" issue, watch some fucking Herzog. Picasso said "Art is a lie that tells the truth." Stop swinging on the governments nutsack for Christ's sake and wake up, they don't give a shit about.
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Jun 03, 2004 6:54:17 PM CDT
"You guys worship an unexploded nuclear bomb?" "Yeah, but only
by tall_boy
At least I think that's the line.
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that was some shit, man. that moore is one snarky sumbitch,
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So far I have seen at least 6 Bush haters posting before you made this post. But, anyways, when it is all said and done, this website is designed strictly for entertainment news, information and reviews only, NOT POLITICING!!!! If Harry wants to politic on his website, then he should make one called Ain't It Political News.
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So Michael Moore knows there is no answer? Why, how Socratic of him. But you know, funny thing - if there IS NO ANSWER, he seems pretty pissed off about it. If there IS NO ANSWER, why does he denounce the NRA and its spokespeople as evil? If there IS NO ANSWER, then no possible viewpoint on the subject can be considered wrong, and CERTAINLY none of them can be considered evil or even blameworthy. For a man who does not believe the question can be answered, Mr. Moore is pretty free with his rage.
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Jun 03, 2004 7:40:06 PM CDT
I'll never forget how in early 2001 I visited a friend who worke
by theginger twit
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I don't have to defend my position, you know it's true.
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So it seems a lot of people think Michael Moore is a quack, or loser, or a leftist commie robot. In the crazy fucked-up world that we live in, are Michael Moore's ideas or methods really that insane? I don't know. There has to be a light for every dark (I'm not assigning sides to those shades mind you), or a yin for every yang and so on and so forth. He's also exercizing his freedom of speech. So then why are people reacting so vehemently towards him? Usually that reaction is a result of fear. Obviously something is hitting close to home.
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How come when I post something it ends up in the middle of the talk back? Shouldn't the talkback be in descending order from the first one posted?
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OK, so we have the USA, greatest, wealthiest nation on earth. How did we get that way?? Through our governemtn and capitalism. Why is it that the dems are trying to change the way we've been running our country the last 20 yrs, when it was working just fine the first 200 yrs?? Up and coming countries have been successful copying our government, and what do we do?? We try to become more European with our government. And the democrats are leading the charge. With the socialized medicine, telling everyone the government will take care of them, welfare is a right, not a priveledge...etc. Socialized medicine is just a bad idea in whole, and FUCKING PAYING 45% OF YOUR MONEY TO THE GOVERNMENT, AND THEM WANTING MORE IS INSANE. No wonder why the lower class is democrat. LOWER CLASS/POOR = UNEDUCATED, or else they'd have landed a decent job. Lower class/poor don't really pay much in taxes b/c they're in a smaller bracket. The government gives out money to these people, gives them special handouts, free healthcare, welfare etc....And then they argue about the "wealthiest 1%" but do you know that if you make over 85,000 then you're in the top tax bracket???? You gotta pay the same percentage as those making a million dollars. The Dems think that in order to solve problems they just throw money at it...Education...we spend more and more money on it, and the more we spend, the worse it gets. Hug your trees, raise our taxes, socialize health care, cut the defense in half, a few minor alterations like that and we've got France, Canada, Germany....last time I checked, those countries weren't really doing that hot. Hell, if it gets over 95 degrees in France, 30,000 people die. Fuck the soy based latte sipping, Bush hating, tree hugging, electric car driving, france and european loving, terrorist sympathizing, tax raising, socialist loving, dope smoking, "racist" labeling, capitalism hating, 'criminals have more rights than victims' saying, masturbating to Hilary Clinton...LIBERALS/DEMOCRATS. Damn you guys are so pathetic...cry cry cry, that's all you do, if you don't like Bush...get the fuck out!! Live in Iceland or Sweden, or France, a country with ideals similar to your own. So you can pay the govt 60% of your taxes and love every single minute of it.
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Jun 03, 2004 9:28:53 PM CDT
Steven Seagal's making a Zucker Brothers comedy? Thank you, God!
by commando cody
Oh hell yeah! Steven Seagal making a movie with the AIRPLANE and TOP SECRET Zucker brothers where he's lampooning himself and action movies? Speaking as a longtime Seagal fan whose sorry to see he's fallen on such crap movies (at one time he really could've been the next truly big action thing, a mark he clearly fell short of) a movie like that -- done in Zucker over the top good fun -- could totally kick ass. Switching to a Leslie Neilsen-like role is the smartest career move Seagal's made in ages -- hell, surrounding himself with people like the Zuckers will be the most talented people he's been around in ages. I am soooooo there opening day. Of course, it still has a tall mountain to climb to beat Will Sasso's skits on MAD TV, especially the time he lampooned Seagal filming CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN COP -- his version of Hidden Tiger "only better." The gag being that Seagal (Sasso) refused to believe Ang Lee used wire work in Tiger, so he insists on doing all his own daredevil stunts. The result was Sasso -- in pure physical comedy abandon -- just tossing himself off of roofs, into walls, doors, etc. I swear I was laughing so hard I had tears. If they were smart (and if the movie will have Seagal playing a cop or something of that nature) to truly push it over the top they should hire Sasso as a co-star just so he could imitate his partner behind his back. Count me there opening day. Oh yeah -- the topic of the day, more shouting about Michael Moore. Frankly, who gives a fuck about FAHRENHEIT? Anyone going in expecting it to show ANY sense of reality or be balanced as a documentary by ANY sense of facts is clearly a poster child for mental retardation. The only people who will see FAHRENHEIT are the "Church of Moore" true believers who want to bend over and take his limp dick up their ass anyway. Anyone ELSE -- that is, the rest of the population who have BRAINS -- will realize it's just political grandstanding of the worst kind and stay away. Bottom line: Moriarity is TOTALLY RIGHT here. Michael Moore is a self-serving, preening, deluded, cocksucker of an asshole who has no clue. All he's interested in pushing is his deluded uber-liberal agenda that is so far off the political radar scope it's fucking pathetic that the anyone even bothers to listen to this piece of walking lard. And those that do take Moore seriously DEFINITELY need to have the wattage of their next shock therapy treatment upped. Because clearly their brain synapses aren't firing enough juice to form an intelligent thought. If Moore thought he could make money off anything -- your family, your pet, the death of your loved ones, hell just flat out filming dead babies for no other reason than to film dead babies and make more money and generate more press about himself, trust me he would. That's the sort of low life, money grubbing, attention seeking fuck he is.
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I know this comes from a "coservative" publication but everyone who wants perspective about Michael Moore's methods and devotion to the "truth" would do well to read it.
http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel040403.asp
From the look of things, Bowling for Columbine should be listed under fiction, not documentary. -
ALL documentary filmmakers have a point of view, whether you perceive it or not. You seem to prefer your filmmakers to be dry and dispassionate. If you don't think conservativism doesn't have a voice in this culture, try tuning in one of the myriad talking heads on talk radio and cable news channels.
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Jun 03, 2004 11:13:39 PM CDT
Bush's comment about the "Elite" being his base make all those W
by notchjohnson
Bush made an honest comment during the trailer, joking that the "elite" (super-wealthy) were his "base" (main foundation of support.)
It makes me feel sorry for these middle- to lower-middle to lower-class voters that support Bush, and act just as arrogant as the superwealthy.
Guess what, people? If you think that sucking up to these people, and bashing the poor (who are basically 20 paychecks away from you, don't deny it), and singing the praises of the superwealthy....if you think doing this is going to get you an honorary ticket to the next country club dinner, you need to wake up.
These basically poor people live a lie. They think if they listen to Rush, and carry on this "let them eat cake" attitude, how does that elevate them above the middle- or lower-class person they really are? We talk about self-hating blacks, self-hating Jews, self-hating whites even....how about self-hating working class people, who cannot admit that they're basically a slave to a wage check? And so they delude themselves into thinking that a 50-cent GOP membership card is going to put them in the same league as the fat cats sitting around the Bush fundraiser, chatting about their latest billion-dollar deals or million-dollar cars.
I'm not saying that the Democrats are friends of the poor or middle-class either. But it's hilarious to see Wal-Mart shopping, NASCAR-poster-owning, broken-down-pickup-truck-driving people act like they're tenth on the country club list just because they LOVE BUSH and hate anything "liberal" or "Democrat. Thanks, Notch. -
Sure the trailer makes me want to see the MOVIE, but thats because Moore is good at what he does. He's not a genius, but he's good. However even if the movie is good it won't change the fact that he's a propagandist. -
Both Michael Moore and Rush Limbaugh are living it up smoking Cuban cigars and drinking champaign and making money off the little guy. At least they didn't come from our ruling class, they attained their status through the hard work of manipulation. But those guys are entertainers. For president you have your choice of two born-to-the-realm aristocrats. I'm picking Kerry because I don't want an overlord who is anti-science, anti-intellectual, and panders to apocalyptic Left Behinders when it comes to Middle East policy.
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Jun 03, 2004 11:43:17 PM CDT
SOMETHING WE CAN ALL AGREE ON: Streaming movie files SUUUUUUCK!!
by burnhollywood
GodDAMN I hate these stupid, useless, waste of bandwidth, distrustful, jerk-off "streaming" media player files!!! Half the time they don't load...oh, it's loading now...oh, it's stopped...oh, it's playing, but with no sound...oh, it's stopped again...SCREW IT. *** APPLE, MICROSOFT, REALPLAYER, go F**K YOURSELVES with a breaded cactus, you jerkwads!!! *** And YOU, Michael Moore, so-called radical! GIVE ME THE F**KING FILE and screw your F**KING "embedded" players!!! What, there's a secret Hong Kong black market trading in postage stamp sized movie trailers three minutes in length?!!! Quit "showing off" and gimmee the damned file!!! >:-||
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Jun 03, 2004 11:44:46 PM CDT
Bravo Mori!!!!!!!! Impossible for me to agree more wth you!!!! G
by moratgurgeh
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He hasn't done worthwhile work in...well...ever. Too bad, because you can see the talent buried under the shit. As for this website, I come back for Moriarty, Quint, and bits of cool news that still surface here. I had respect and admiration for Harry for finding an untapped market, basically finding a niche that alot of people never saw at all. But he's gone as far as an earnest love for movies, grade-school grammar, and a tendency for pandering to filmmakers can take him. I don't bother to read any post of his that sniffs of opinion. Moving along to websites that are leaving this one floundering it its own congratulatory self-importance...
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No truer words have ever been posted on this site.
I think that Michael Moore is a two-bit hack.
He annoys the hell out of me in his ramblings he calls speeches and the crap stains on the underwear of the film industry that he calls Films.
I hope he never makes another one of these crappy things. Chances are that he will.
I simply thank God that Lion's Gate is shrewd enough to distribute this film 3 days prior to THE SEQUEL OF THE BIGGEST MOVIE EVER.
Nimrods. Everyone go see Spider-Man 2. Not only b/c it will rule, but to stiff it to the man.
that man being Moore.
If you can call him that...Lol -
Jun 04, 2004 5:43:17 AM CDT
Unreal! I've watched this trailer again and again. It is UNREAL.
by theginger twit
Unreal!
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From the new movie "The Hunting Of The President"
(http://www.thehuntingofthepresident.com)
http://www.thehuntingofthepresident.com/trailer.html -
Jun 04, 2004 2:05:25 PM CDT
when did conservatives become so unbelievably, demonstrably path
by duanejones
libertarians, too -- viz. :"Let's get it all on the table, Ok? #1- Democrats, They want to steal every penny you have first..." oh, really? is that why clinton balanced the budget and bush, ever the "conservative," blew it out over the course of DECADES?! i also love the straw man arguments they set up in order to knock them down and declare victory...sorta like what they CAN'T do in iraq. move to sweden? thanks, no...i'll just be helping out taking the country back from you know-nothing yahoos whose phyrric victories on web boards is inversely proportional to logic and reality as it is experienced on the planet earth. http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war34.html. that is fooking all...
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I thought you were posting about a new film he was making not the new film that's coming out. Sloppy. 4/10
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If conservatives are so proud of what they are, why does their flagship station Fox News continue to pedal the claim of
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Clarke was advising Clinton during his years, and we all remember what remarkable strides the Clinton administration made against terrorism. To recap: 1st attack on wtc(remember that?)=Clinton did nothing. Bombing of US embassies=Clinton did nothing. Bombing of USS Cole=Clinton did nothing. Monica Lewinsky Scandal=Clinton decides to bomb Iraq. So Bush is elected and has power for 7 months, 9/11 happens, and it's now HIS fault? Who dropped the ball for the preceding 8 years? Could it have been Clinton and *gasp* Richard Clarke? Clarke's testimony sounds to me like a major case of CMA(cover my ass). And by the way, I don't think bin Laden would vote for the one guy that's actually trying to catch him, got him kicked out of Afghanistan, killed many of his aides, and drove his terrorists out of Iraq. He might(just might) vote for the guy who votes to slash defense budgets whenever he gets half a chance, has committed "atrocities," and believes the UN (which can't even DEFINE terrorism for christ's sake) should have complete control of our military. Just my opinion, though.
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That was one kick ass trailer and I can't wait to see the film. Shrub is going to shit his panties when and if Joe Six-pack finally admits to himself that the Bushy crew and the GOP don't give a shit about the little guys beyond how many of them they're going to send to their deaths fighting the oil wars for Cheney and the Saudi's. I'd be more upset by a liberal slant to this or any other movie if we hadn't been subjected to three and a half years of those cocksucking GOP talking heads telling us that bombing muslims would get us into heaven for a coke sniff party with that left behind idiot Shrub. Even if the film doesn't give any answers, its about time the questions were at least asked.
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Nice try, midwat, but let
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The American Heritage Dictionary will do fine: The unlawful use or threatened use of force to intimidate or coerce societies or governments, often for ideological or political immunity. How's that? I didn't even need diplomatic immunity to do it! My point was the UN is so bogged down in red tape that even relatively simple tasks are made impossible if it inconveniences a member nation. My other point (that of Clinton's poor terrorism judgement) was that it was illogical to attack Bush for not "bringing bin Laden to justice" when he had seven months to do it, and hold Clinton blameless when he had eight years to do so. If everyone involved with the first WTC attack was in fact imprisoned, then bin Laden sure served a quick sentence. And by the way, the Iraq government and Al queda operatives met multiple times because Saddam was "enthusiastic" to help bin Laden.
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Bush's Iraq war is infinitely more justifiable that Clinton's Serbian "police action." The number of mass graves we found in Iraq far outnumber the ones Slobadan Milosevich placed. Milosevich never attempted to assasinate a US president. Milosevich never declared that we would "swim in our own blood." Not that Milosevich wasn't certifiably bad, but Saddam was much worse.
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http://www.mooreexposed.com/
That's all I have to say about that fack fuck. Oh, btw, Bill Maher isn't anti-Bush, he's anti whoever is in power, or don't you nimrods remember him ripping into Clinton for eight years?!?!? -
Jun 05, 2004 3:45:27 AM CDT
I remember the first world trade centre bombing. I also remember
by theginger twit
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When is Joseph Goebbels going to come out with a new film?
Seriously, what is this trend with fascist politics in the media? It seems like you can hardly turn on the TV, go to the bookstore, or see a movie without some fanatic trying to force his views down your throat. It's getting pretty tiresome. I don't think we have had this level of propagandizing since World War 2. -
Jun 05, 2004 4:02:58 PM CDT
How to Deal with the Lies and the Lying Liars When They Lie abou
by artsnob
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/
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Interesting point, except for the fact that every news organization you mentioned is not left-wing or even left-leaning and that's why their news personalities don't admit to being liberal . . . because they are not. I
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Jun 06, 2004 2:32:05 AM CDT
WTF..NFL ref....Lets face it...hollywood people know nothing abo
by world dictator
So you wont vote for Kerry because he has no vision or leadership and is basically just not GW yet you voted for GW intially although he had no vision or leadership and wasnt AL Gore.*shakes head* Schizo Dem's i swear. Besides if you were really informed about the issues and didnt just soak up the media processed sound bite you'd know that not only does Kerry have a vision, internationalizing the security and completion of Iraqi democracy, but GW is basically trying to hjack this part of Kerry's platform.
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i happened to look closely at that moment in the trailer with George bush's name when i was first watching, and the document from which it was taken was his national guard orders that he be grounded from being a pilot. if you do a still frame of that moment, you'd see that's where that's from. so although they flashed his name, in the actual movie, they could have said something like, "the planes were all grounded just like bush was when he was in the national guard."
i've often seen that kind of editing in movie trailers where they take some visual from a movie that is unrelated to the narration, but would look enticing if shown at the same time. that doesn't mean i condone that kind of thing.
does richard clarke say in his book that he is the one who gave that order about the bin laden family and other saudis? i have the book but haven't read it yet past page 10.
of course, the real point is that the bin ladens were picked up by charter plane and flown out, without ever being interrogated at length by the fbi... and that alone no matter who gave the orders is somewhat suspicious. the bin ladens only sold their stake in carlisle group (the bush family military contractor company) three months after 9/11 because of pressure from the press. it all reeks, if you ask me.
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