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Our first mini-review of Michael Moore's FAHRENHEIT 911!!!
Ahoy, squirts! Quint here with the first review I've seen on Michael Moore's much anticipated election year film, FAHRENHEIT 911... Now, my Republican friends might not want to dip down into this review... not that I'd expect any Republican readers to have any real interest in a Michael Moore flick, other than to call the dude names... but if you do, don't be surprised to find an unapologeticly hardcore Conservative bashing shining review. I, for one, can't wait to see what Moore uncovered. Based on his book, DUDE, WHERE'S MY COUNTRY, I'm sure us anti-Bush people will have a lot of material to steam over. Considering the news of torture and abuse by US soldiers has finally been brought to light, I can't think of a better time for a documentary like this. Dammit, Jim! It's time for "Bones" to pump some liberal anger onto the page!
Harry,
Can't reveal my source but they saw Moore's FAHRENHEIT 911 the other
night. Let's just say it was for legal reasons and leave it at that.
The review? Brilliant. Hilarious. And creepy freakin' scary! Like THE
NIGHTSTALKER with Moore as Kolchak ( ...for the kids out there that
don't get the reference CLICK HERE!!!) only the vampire cover-up isn't in Vegas, it's the White House. Bush will burn in hell for this and the evidence
of his blood-sucking corporate-worship is all there in the movie. A
flip-flopping liar and incompetent leader, Bush and his corrupt
administration are revealed in all their inglorious ugliness. Moore
goes into the history of the Bush family and the long ties to the
Saudi royalty and their oil empire (nothing new here, Republican Kevin
Phillips documents it as well in his book, "AMERICAN DYNASTY") to set up how these bastards have sold America down a river of oil. If you've seen BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE you'll understand that Moore can make you laugh and cry
at the same time and this film is going to deliver lots of
entertainment mixed with the politics and history. FAHRENHEIT 911 is
going to be released despite a brutal fight from the Bush-toadies at
Disney and in the media. But hey, I think the resulting publicity will
drive more people into the theaters to see it. Let's hope.
If you use this, just use my usual nomme de plume, "Bones".
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I also wanted to be first... wow.. but yeah interested to see this movie
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"Evidence?" I doubt it. If Michael Moore had REAL evidence, he wouldn't be waiting for a movie to come out to present it.
No, it's simply more of Moore's lies. Lying is what he does best, and swallowing his lying bullshit whole is what the wide-eyed, hand-waving liberals who run this board do best. Harry will probably come all over himself about the movie, of course, since he's a brain dead, worthless piece of rotting human blubber who tries to aggrandize himself by adapting outlandish liberal positions. -
Check out Moores site www.michaelmoore.com for more scariness. Also what's with these twats who post first, then brag about it?
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The fact that eisner isnt going to release this is the biggest disgrace in the history of mankind.No doubt.And why? All beacause he doesnt want to lose his special tax breaks off georgie worgy, and georgie 'i sucked my daddys cock for 50 years and now im the president' Bush is damn afraid,and i mean damn afraid of losing an election, that in any other country he wouldnt even have lasted a term. Eisner, i hope you suck in hell. I wont deny im a huge fan of moore.True,there is alot of better writers/documentarians (is that a word?) around,but i just feal,stylystically,hes very entertainiing,his films are entertaining even if he is a little exteme on the political front. And this decision, to basically BAN a movie on poliical grounds,its just,well ridiculous. This is the sort of thing you would expect to happen in Iraq, or afghanistan, not in the most powereful country in the world, where freedom of speech is meant to reighn free. Oh no no no. not a chance. Not in America, a country that i once admired, but has now turned into a hillbilly tate, a country where the econimic and social divide is probably just as bad as an LEDC in africa or asia. Eisner,i know for one, i will boycott any disney product or any product which i knowingly know that your fat grubby little shit stained hands will profit from. Until you release this film. Thankfully, as a Brit, i will get to see this,along with my fellow euro chums without question. And why? Beacause i cant vote in your countrys rigged elections. Well, im going to start a campaighn TO boycott any disney merchindice or product,or any products that are to do with disney until this cunt releases FARENHEIGHT 911 in the states. And i urge every american with a vote to VOTE DEMOCRAT IN NOVEMBER. Fact: America has the lowest voter turnout in any Democratic county in the world! Britain is a quarter your population,yet we nearly had as many votes cast in our last election than in yours! And look how close the USA elctions were last time! your vote CAN make a difference and it CAN boot that dictator out of the whitehouse!!! VOTE JOHN KERRY IN 2004! I thank you.....
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May 06, 2004 7:04:45 AM CDT
Some with Balls the size of Jupiter needs to distriubute this fi
by dogsoup
This film needs to be seen by anyone who is even remotely worried by the leadership in our country.I don't always agree with Moore's tactics or his own personal views, but the actual facts he presents are so important that they overshadow the flaws in Mike's film-making.As it was for Bowling for Columbine, I'm sure the same is true for this one. I double dog dare any company to have the planetary testicles and distriubute this film.
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I mean c'mon, you talk about this stuff like it's truthful film making. The guy takes speculation and opinion, wraps it in slick film making and calls it fact. You sheepish bedwetters suck it up like it's all fact and Mikey Moore was the only guy smart enough to uncover the REAL TRUTH.....
I can't wait to see how much stuff in this film he constructed by dishonest editing. Like he did with about 2/3rds of BFC.
please....
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I have to agree with wolf at the door. I will see this movie but only on DVD.
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"but the actual facts he presents are so important that they overshadow the flaws in Mike's film-making."
haha. The facts he presents? the flaws in his film making? ARE YOU STUPID?
Are you so dumb that you can't recognize that the flaws in his film making is that he doesn't use real facts. He uses "contructed facts" and cuts his films so that you won't notice the difference. Though he will claim he expected you to when someone asks him about his dishonesty. -
May 06, 2004 7:14:37 AM CDT
How to Deal with the Lies and the Lying Liars When They Lie abou
by judas's priest
Yes, Michael Moore and his team of crack researchers do tell the truth, but it would seem that conservatives and Bushites only like to hear the truth when it suits them. Keep on liberal bashing you bunch of ignorant flag-waving, Chuck Norris watching, wankfists! As for the continued allegations that BFC is a load of lies; please go to http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/
and you too can read "How to Deal with the Lies and the Lying Liars When They Lie about Bowling for Columbine". -
http://www.limpfish.com/pics/7
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because their ignorant, plain and simple.
To the day they still say we went to war for oil.... though we haven't taken a single drop from Iraq or made a penny off the country for what we're doing for them..... yet liberals keep yelling the same thing..
that is because they lack the ability of free thought. They're waiting for their "group" to tell them what they should be pissed off about..
Dems have no chance in the election this year. Kerry doesn't stand a chance. The election is over, start crying now.
It's also funny how liberals are so keen to vote for Kerry because Bush is all about "big business". Yet Kerry has voted to increase taxes on EVERYONE a few hundred times. Voted for the largest gas taxes in history. Yet mean old nasty Bush passes tax cuts that benefit..EVERYONE, and he's only for Big Business.
It just goes to show you how the extreme liberals in this country blind themselves to the truth that sits in front of them. yet they lap up fabrications like Moores movies like they are gospel. -
Miramax will have to find a new distributor for the movie, as Disney has refused to distribute it. Just in time for Cannes, so it'll be snatched up quickly. Disney sucks.
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Have you even thought that just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't automatically make them XX. Lets be intellectually honest here, some people may have a different opinion then you. You don't have to go into the whole "My penis is bigger then your's!" argument. ;)
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Thats not what your GF said. :)
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But I don't even pay attention to those people (on both sides) but they only post once and then shutup. I'm not saying that it's right- quite frankly it's just as bad as calling someone a "facist" (BTW I would be suprised if anyone using the word understands it) I understand your feelings that your "being persecuted" by others that have a differing view point. As soon as I see someone that continues to spew venomous hate I call them on it, I've notice a few "rightwingers" post their horrible opinions but in my eyes everyone gets a first pass after that I'll start calling them on it. :)
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I find Moore to be partisan. Critique leadership, fine. But be unbiased about it.
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That wasn't a review at all. It was barely more than the hyperbole the movie producers put on the back of the DVD.
A review actually delves into the details of the movie, it doesn't just repeat the same information we already know about the movie. Hell, Harry's post about THE MOUSE blocking the flick gave more insight than this clown did.
What a waste of AICN's bandwidth. -
Those who opose Moores politics diametricaly, do so for reasons I should never care to understand (or perhaps understand to well) and I shouldnt expect anything I have to say here to appeal to them. But I'm concerned that some of the more left oriented posters are making grave errors in judgement about Moores work.
To criticise Moores methods, and the 'cult of personality' that surrounds his work if you essentialy agree with his politics is short sighted.
As with BFC, Moore will no doubt be presenting in Farenheit 911 a broad argument and perspective on events that is in tital opposition to what has been presented elsewhere in the media. Most of what Moore has to say about Bush/Bin Laden ties and so forth, will be familiar material to many of us - but will come as a great shock to many more. Most of the audience for this film will be come from ordinary people whos perspective on the world has been fed to them by CNN and who consider The West Wing (for fucks sake) the height of intelligent leftist debate.
As with BFC this will be a ase of one film vs the whole of the rest of the media. For Moores arguments (whether you wholly agree with them or not) to reach their audience and have any kind of an impact in that climate, requires big money investment and (shock horror) self publicity.
Berating Moore for makig deals with Miramax is like having a go at The Simpsons for being on Fox or South Park for being on Comedy Central. Having a mainstream distribution deal has NO BARING on the validity of his arguements.
And as Moore points out himself, in the article that someone was good enough to copy/paste - no major distributor would touch a film like his if he didnt have his facts straight. -
I wonder if Star Wars thread degeneration into mindless bashing too. :Rolleyes:
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OK. so. If bowling for columbine is truly as full of lies and slights and libelous chicanery as many of you [people] say it is where are the lawsuits? In other news it is not a war for oil but a war for war. Its been 44 years since Ike warned of the military industrial complex and now under this psychotic warmongering fuckwit of a president the weapons manufacturers might just have an endless fount of blood money pouring in beyond their wettest dreams. As a matter of fact the shrub in charge just put in a request for another 25billion dollars so that we can continue to send our children to the mid-east to kill other children...not in one country but two. But this kind of shit is exactly what happens when a country continually elects the offspring of the nazi party to the position of president. And before you start shouting foul at that last statement please go find out what kind of twisted monstrous zyklon-b funding evil douschebag Prescott Bush really was. the leader of this country is EVIL...truly, madly, deeply.
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Not even.
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THE ONLY WAY THAT WE CAN SETTLE THIS IS TO DO WHAT YOU HAVE ALWAYS NEEDED TO DO AND THAT IS TO ADMIT THAT I AM STILL RIGHT AND THAT IS SIMPLY THE ONLY WAY THAT THERE IS!!!! YOU KNOW I AM RIGHT! I KNOW THAT I AM RIGHT! EVERYONE ELSE AROUND BOTH YOU AND I KNOW I AM RIGHT? SO WHY IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION???? THERE IS NO NEED TO BE ALARMIST ABOUT ANY OF IT....THE SOONER THAT YOU ACCEPT THE FACT THAT I AM RIGHT, THE SOONER WE CAN ALL GO HOME AND ALL GET A GOOD NIGHTS SLEEP!!!! SO STOP THINKING....AND KNOW THAT I AM RIGHT, AND ALL WILL BE NICE AND HAPPY AND HARMONIOUS AND GOODY GOODY GOODY!!!!!....And thus, what am I right about? - - - George, The 7th Chicken!!!!
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Draging the debate into the personal, as is alas the way with forums - you misread my argument 'wolf in sheeps clothing'. What makes you think i would defend Michael Moore if thought he was wrong?
His arguments may be flawed (that whole Canada = heaven thing was a little hard to take) but I do not believe that he intentionaly bends the truth or lies in the way that many people here are accusing him. He seems pretty capable of defending himself against the specific accusations of innacurate reporting that are made against him. And most seem unfounded.
MY POINT was that elevating himself to the point of celebrity, making deals with Miramax, indulging in self publicity - are the ONLY way to get his message out through the medium he chooses to use. Perfectly harmless (if risible) means to a justifiable end. The whole 'getting the bullets removed from k-mart' sequence in BFC was proof enough for me that the only real way to EFFECT these things (and not simply commentate) is to deal with the powers that be on their own terms, with their own propaganda tools.
He may not be the most high brow pundit of that particular brand of politics - but then you dont see Chomsky getting of his ass to make a movie. Normal people need these things explained to them in a normal accesible way. You and I may be privelages enough to write off what Moore does, but the unconverted need preaching to.
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...from the media over the last 6 months. Whether it's true or not, a few months ago, the media loved one of the biggest controversies in movie history: one which included Mel Gibson's alleged use of the controversy surrounding THE PASSION as his main vehicle for free advertising. I don't pretend to know if that was the case or not, but I'm sure Michael Moore read about Mel and had a couple of light bulbs go off in his head. Moore's movies entertain me, but after you leave the theater and think about them, they can really bug the shit out of you. Get ready for other irresponsible filmmakers to cash in on this method of advertising.
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This is what makes me laugh about the guy. His defense of the "Bank gave me a gun" story includes details indicating that the bank is a licensed gun dealer and that they ran a background check on Moore before giving him his gun. WHY IS THIS EVENT EVEN IN THE MOVIE, THEN? Unless Moore feels that he, personally, in some way does not deserve to own a firearm. And the "Lockheed Martin has a factory in Littleton CO" bit has got to be the stupidest, most fallacious, most dishonest, most ludicrous bit of argumentation or raticonation I have ever seen. His association of this factory with the Columbine shooting is simply moronic. It falls below even the kind of child-reasoning you would see in a culture of savages, where people believed in the "evil eye" or that you could cast a spell on your neighbor's cow. "Missile factory in Littleton" and "causes school shooting" - what kind of fucking demented Aztec concept of cause and effect is that? Hey, GE makes plastic in Albany NY - maybe this will "cause" the residents of Albany to buy water guns! Or run up the balances on their credit cards! Those are "plastic", too, right? Look at the neat Moore-style association I have made! The man feels absolutely no need to make actual arguments, because it's easier for him to just throw a bunch of images up there. And people claim that BUSH crafts his statements to allow the public to draw false inferences? Moore is the fucking CROWN PRINCE of that. And he plans to continue it by using that fucking sad sack voice of his to narrate about all the ways in which George Bush's cousin knows Osama bin Laden's cousin. Another great example of his argumentative style, and people too stupid to know what "guilt by association" is will think that it is significant.
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Who among you can really say if Mike Moore is telling the truth? I find his writing and films to be well researched and very involving. The fact that in this country which lives and breaths torts and lawsuits. It is indicative that MOORE has NEVER been sued by the business entities he skewers. This is a vital clue to the veracity of his information. In a country that sues people for EVERYTHING. He has not been pursued by the corporate monkeymen because they KNOW he is telling the truth.
What amazes me about the right wing they will call out the UNTRUTH or MANIPULATED truth card on any free thinking liberal who dares to show thier head (or some heart as MIKE has)
But do they even THINK to question thier favorite pundits.
ARE YOU SURE THAT ANN COULTER, RUSH LIMBAUGH, SEAN HANNITY and BILL O"REILLY are telling you the truth? Of course they aren't.. Don't be naive.
And as far as getting your income taxes lowered. What effect do you really think that had on the American Economy? The truth is NOT MUCH. Americans did not spend thier tax cut on durable goods or cars. They used it to pay the rent, or child care or to catch up on overdue credit card bills.
WHATS THE DOWNSIDE? It has always been the goal of the Conservative movement to starve the Govt of money so that BIG BUSINESS can get away with murder in America. So that they can pollute at will and poison our food and make war for no good political reason. (WAR IS AN INSTRUMENT OF POLICY) So whats the policy? DO you know?
You feel good about that tax cut? Tell me how you feel about it after you eat a piece of tainted meat that wasn't properly inspected because the DEPT of AGRICULTURE had its budget cut because of lack of funds and had to hire fewer meat inspectors. OR How do you feel about the Toxic waste site that was left abandoned and the EPA does'nt have the funds to put on the National Priorities List so it can get funds for cleanup?
YOUR tax dollars pay for these things.
How would you feel if you were a soldier in AFGHANISTAN and had no usable body armor? Because there was NO TAX money to pay for this soldiers well being.
Having been one of those servicemen I can tell you, Bush is BIG on defense(industries) but could give a rat's ass about our soldiers, sailors airmen and marines.
But what can you expect from a money privileged deserter?
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Is that all Michael Moore can ever acheive. Judging by responses in this forum to the mere mention of his name, it seems so. Sad. Those of a predisposition to disagree with his politics seem to keep throwing accusations against arguments the man has never even made.
I dont recal Moore at any point suggesting that the location and existence of that Lockheed Martin plant contributed to columbine. When does he say that? He doesn't. That is never suggested. Your misinterpreting what was a harmless segue between subject matters connected by a perceivable irony. The film wouldnt get released by ANYONE if it presented arguments like the one you suggest. If you want to deliberately misinterpret the content of his films then fine, but at least throw false accusations at him that are feasable.
It seems certain people watched BFC in a state of mind to deliberately misunderstand what they saw. Why? I mean, 'guns are bad' right? Thats the moral of the story. What is everyones problem with that?
Considering that clumsy badly presented right wing arguments are broadcast on every chanel constantly 24 hours a day, and generaly infiltrate the moral teachings of even the most inocuous seeming of 'family entertainment' - I dont see why everyone is so frightened about 'the opposition' having one lousy movie to their name. Doesn't it bother ANYONE that the political voice of the nation is decided by corporations?
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First he tried hiding behind the our flag, then he tried hiding behind the cross, I think he's running out of places....
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May 06, 2004 1:58:45 PM CDT
Easy to spot a plant. References WAY more things then a normal p
by krims0nknite
Stop these stupid plants from coming in. They are so easy to spot, when they say things like "If you loved XXX, then you will love this movie!" and they just reference a whole bunch of crap aside from the movie itself.
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This is NOT the biggest disgrace in history. It's bullshit, but it is not going down in any of the history books next to pictures of people burning alive. What are we? The fucking Weathermen? No matter how much you are pissed off over these hits never lose the ability to put things in the proper perspective. We're liberals, we're not a bunch of radical rabblerousing nutcases that make hyperbolic blanket statements about every obstacle thrown at us. If we really are the better men in this struggle then goddamit start acting like it. Good luck finding a distributor for your doc Mike, although I don't think you need it.
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Pinkoland?????? What a moron you are!!!! You sound like some bonheaded sheep from the 70's who was convinced the 'commies' were gonna invade Nebraska and eat our children!!! Yeah...all of those hollywood people (think of them next time you go see a Hollywood movie) are all carrying Mao books around and believe in unfliching support of the state!! Why not just use call them 'filthy Krauts' while your chatting with your 'right wing' elitist buddies. I wish the right would just form their own theocratic 'Saudi Arabian' style country somewhere far away!!
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May 06, 2004 4:21:55 PM CDT
ah, yes. all sorts of expletives, mostly dealing with his weight
by shiva
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People like him and many right-wing people fucking hate him.
But one thing he does is get people to spark a conversation, good or bad.
Americans remember when people use to talk!
Now People rather just stay home and watch the last episodes of Friends and stay number #1 as the Fattest Country in the world
Oink, Oink, Fatty.
hahahahahahahahah -
May 06, 2004 5:52:39 PM CDT
Moore's statement yesterday was a lie. Do you want to go back a
by fluffyunbound
Yesterday he said that Disney had JUST decided to not distribute the film, and that it was a shock. htxp://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040506/ap_en_mo/disney_michael_moore_17 Today he admits notice of this was given a year ago but they kept hoping Disney would change their minds. Yesterday he said that Disney had claimed to have been pressured by Florida government officials. htxp://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040506/ap_en_mo/disney_michael_moore_17 Today Disney denies that, and suddenly Moore amends his statement to say that the existence of pressure was his assumption, and not something directly related to him. Yesterday he said that Disney was using its purse strings to try to censor speech. Funny how he never mentioned that Disney [via Miramax] GAVE him the $6 million he used to make his film. Wow, look at the way they are using money to beat him down. Gosh, I wish Disney would try to "censor" me by giving ME $6 million to make a film. Those brutes.
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May 06, 2004 8:24:43 PM CDT
After All These Years, I Am Still Amazed At The Level This Site
by genro
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How the fuck can someone come up with a halfbaked X-files episode reject, and have it called a documentary.
By the way people, the FUCKING DEMOCRATS LOST, GET THE FLYING FUCK OVER IT!! -
And if you're so enthusiastic about his administration, why don't you stop driving your SUVs, and enlist in the marines, you yuppie assholes. But no, you support the war, but when it's time to wage it, leave all the fighting to the poor. Total utter hypocrisy..
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Personally my views on Moore fall somewhere in between, much like wolf at the door, although I don
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Really? We went over there for oil? I'm not really on either side but I do think we went over for oil. The worlds economy is based on it and we want to stabilize the region to make sure it keeps flowing. If we knock out a guy who could have WMDs and is a fucking monster, great! People complain about how we did it for oil...but you love your big movies? Your Malls? Your nice Starbucks? Guess what? Oil flow stops what will happen? It's gonna turn into the fucking road warrior. ANd yes the Bushes have been in this for decades keeping the system propped up to keep the oil going and getting rich off it. It is a deal with the devil. But you can't be the Quarterback, the Prom King and fuck the Head Cheerleader without doing some ugly stuff too. It's tough to take the moral high ground. We don't really have one. It's just not as simple as leftys bad! or Conservatives bad. The really shitty part is it does help radicalize the region but guess what? It's not like it wasn't bad already. A real president wants to make us safer? Then solve the Israel Paestine thing! That is really where so much hatred for us come sfrom. Nobody ever talks about that. Why doesn't Moore make a fucking movie about that? Too boring. Doesn't sell tickets. Doesn't have a strawman bad guy. I hate Moore like I hate Al franken. They just like to say if youre a Democrat then youre okay. But fuck Ann Coulter the same way. Someone wrote a great letter to the editor about all this parisanship, and all these Hollywood types and rich liberals raising millions to beat George Bush. Just HATING him. Like really, why not put all that money and effort into doing something meaningful for schools or abused children or AIDS or whatever rather then a personal vendetta. I know everyone wants change (on both sides) but it just gets so kindergarden playground. And Moore is part of that shallow argument that solves nothing.
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Fahrenheit already has its distribution guaranteed in Brazil. That's funny hhehehehehehehhe Actually I think in all countries (except usa) this documentary won't have a problem being released, since being anti-american is in vogue today. Jesus, the world really hate Bush (and, in consequence, USA) to the point that Bin Laden is a hero to many (and I'm not talking about arabs)! I don't think Americans know that (or care about it)...
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May 07, 2004 12:28:07 AM CDT
"liberals need to be bashed because their ignorant, plain and si
by kazamasmokers
Ah... some things don't need a punch line, do they?
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May 07, 2004 1:12:14 AM CDT
QUINT the moron: "Considering the news of torture and abuse by U
by big dumb ape
Yes, because a totally biased and utterly laughable one-sided Michael Moore mockumentary about Bush should clearly go hand in hand with what some -- accent on SOME -- soldiers did by THEIR OWN personal actions on the complete other side of the world and away from Bush and without his knowledge, by losing their tempers or minds in the midst of being ON the frontlines of war. Quint, you show the world what a total FUCKING MORON when you write bullshit like that. What an intellectual gnat you must be in life...
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May 07, 2004 1:22:26 AM CDT
"If you've seen BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE you'll understand that Moo
by commando cody
I mostly laughed since Moore fudged and faked so many core points in COLUMBINE that the film was an utter joke and yet another eye rolling and groan inducing attempt by Moore to try and foist his ultra liberal, nonsensical thoughts onto an event, thus demeaning it by his sheer presence. Then again, the idea of Moore self-grandizing himself and trying to milk other people's pain and hardships for his OWN personal wealth, gain and fame is nothing new. The man is an utter liar and sheer cocksucker. One thing is for sure, COLUMBINE most CERTAINLY didn't deserve to win an Oscar for Documentary since those are supposed to rely on these little things called "facts" -- something Moore wouldn't recognize if they bit him in the ass. Come to think of it, Moore's ass is so big how WOULD he know something bit it? Does that much blubber even have sensory feeling? I doubt it. His ass blubber is as unthinking as his brain.
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I've read his defense in response to accusations of him lying in BFC. He mentions how the bank gave him a gun after a background check, all of the proper procedures took place etc. So what's the big deal? So what if a bank gives away a gun when you open an account? Moore wants us to see this action as ludicris and insane but I don't really see how this is such a bad thing. It is humorous but certainly not wrong. And another thing - He speaks of Charleton Heston's lack of respect shown towards the Columbine victims' families. But it is Moore that invited the families to screenings of BFC, only to charge them admission. Now who has shown the most disrespect? Moore has made numerous errors in my opinion. These are just two of them.****Mace Windex- where did you get that information concerning Prescott Bush? I would be interested in reading more. And Harry - I wouldn't mind reading an actual review of the film. Maybe when you get chance, you could find someone who actually wrote one. This so-called review told me absolutely nothing.
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You've just guaranteed that Farenheit 911 will make a shitload more money than it would have before. You know that you can't stop some studio from releasing it, and they're going to make a ton of money now. Looks like Mikey hit a nerve. Your reaction makes you look even guiltier. Truth to a republican is like sunlight to a vampire...deadly. And this President Blood Sucker is just about to get a fatal dose. I just hope that when Mike accepts his oscar next year, he doesn't forget to thank Bush for all the extra money he made, and also Disney: The House of the Neutered Mouse for being so fucking spineless. After November, you little fucktard republicans are just going to have to slither back under whatever rock it is you crawled out from under. On the bright side, Kindasleezy Rice can go back to her old job....crack whore. I hear they kept her corner open. Good bye, and good riddance, republican trash.
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Moore rules, Bush sucks like a 2 dollar crack whore. At least Fahrenheit is going to be released here in Europe!!!
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This is quite amusing, reading about how conservatives are fill in the blank and liberals are fill in the blank. This just goes to show you why I hate MTV (follow me for a sec). MTV sponsors rock the vote, which tries to get young people to vote more. Looking around at young people (I see plenty as a lecturer in math) and reading these posts, which are mostly from young people, this is a terrible idea. Its clear to me that the majority of people in this country have not learned a fundemental skill, logic. Without logic, how can one properly discover their personal views that are facted based. For example, Bush is bad because his family has been linked to the Suadis and bin Ladens (which by the way, the Bushs are in freakin oil its only reasonable that there is a connection) and his granfather may have done somthing bad (what it was is not important, I'm sure that all of you have spotless family backgrounds). Think this through, I won't hold your hand. You accuse Bush of lying to us and that people are stupid for believing anything that he says and then you defend Moore against accusations of lying by quoting his website! Conservatives don't seem to be any better in thier ability to structure a thoughtful, well reasoned argument. Read any book from these pundits, Rush or Franken, Hannity or Moore and you get the same kind of mindless absence of reason, but nobody sees it from their side. How many times do I have to hear "Moore is a genius that tells the truth, but Hannity is a lying facist" or "Rush is right (dittos from what ever screwball town I can think of), but Al Franken is just a liberal dunce". The people who are easily manipulated by these self-important talking heads SHOULD NOT BE VOTING. I would prefer less people to vote, more importantly, I would like politians to stop courting these people, maybe then we could all deal with the important issues of the day. And this is why I hate MTV.
I case it matters, so that people can then dismiss me because I don't like thier candidate, I will be voting for bush. Why? Because at least with GWB, I don't need to spend 15 minutes analyizing one minute from a speech to find out what hes trying to say. That and, bash bush all you want for being stupid, Kerry's "I vote pro-choice due to seperation of church and state" is perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever heard (and I teach freshmen) -
Those kids at Columbine should NOT have had access to guns. No stupid people should have access to guns. Unfortunately, 99.9% of the population is composed of stupid people. Now, I'm fond of my weapons collection... some people collect coins or stamps... I collect guns. Mostly old ones, mind you... but the mechanics have always intrigued me. However, and this is a big however, Americans are too stupid to be allowed to have guns. Is totally banning them the right anwswer? No, I don't think so. But I do think there should be some kind of detailed certification/licensing process... and only for collectors. For anyone else, Airsoft should do fine - like in Japan. Sure Moore's editing is sneaky and deceptive, but he has some completely valid points. Farenheit 911 is a different matter altogether... I'll reserve ultimate judgement until I've seen the film, but knowing Moore's feelings about Bush (indeed the entire democratic parties hatred) that this particular film could go way over the deep end. It's almost as if liberals exist for no other reason than to oppose everything that conservatives stand for... regardless of how insane or unreasonable the response is. I personally hate both political extremes (I consider myself a conservative-leaning libertarian) as they abandon all reason and logic in favor of their own selfish agendas. I said 'conservative-leaning' because I generally agree with most of the goals the conservatives set forth... but usually for wildly different reasons than the norm... and that's the trick. Conservative thinkers tend to be more reasonable and open minded than liberals, who are driven by blind, unbridled hate. It is my honest belief that President Bush has done about the best job as any president could do during the last four years. What do you think would have happened if Gore had won (and don't start... he didn't win. He even tried to CHEAT, and STILL didnt win)? Disneyland might be a crater. Gas would be $4 a gallon. Higher taxes would force lower income families out of their houses - so that it can pay for the rat pit soup kitchen they will be forced to eat at, their brand new tax dollors now at work.
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May 07, 2004 2:44:13 AM CDT
Conservatives are lying, fascist who share one brain...
by thematrixhasyou
All of you fascist conservatives are either liars yourselves or buy into all of the Bull Shit character attacks spun by your CORPORATE MEDIA sheep herders like FOX NEWS. None of you EVER give any examples of Moore's lies or faulty facts. NEVER! Why not? Is it maybe because you are all too ignorant or lazy (or both) to do some research yourselves to discover the truth? Is that if you hear something that someone says which you agree with, you simply and foolishly take it at face value? Maybe it is that, as John Stuart Mill said it best, "while it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people . . . it is true that most stupid people are conservative." See here's thing. I constantly read and hear from angry conservatives who claim Micheal Moore is so full of shit, especially in Bowling for Colombine. I usually ask them how the movie ended and I stand and watch them fummble for an answer, and side step the question and say something like, "well I know he is a liar because I read or heard it from so & so" (they usually mention O'Reilly or Hannity). So I ask them again, did you see the film and if so how does it end? Once again they fumble and side step, but some have actually fessed up to not seeing it at all and were there for lying all along about even watching it. There have been a rare few that I have spoken to that really did see it.
My advice to all you Micheal Moore hating fools: If he is your enemy then it is in your best interests to KNOW YOUR ENEMY. That means watching his films and reading his books, that way you can develope solid arguments against his veiwpoints held in the film, otherwise you will NEVER, EVER convince anyone of your veiwpoint who doesn't already think like you. -
The guy is a liar and a hypocrite. I hate Bush, but this movie should be released so that everyone with a brain can see how drummed up everything in it is.
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May 07, 2004 3:36:29 AM CDT
New Political Film Project from the Creator of KILL CHRIST!
by passionplayer
check it out. funny leftist media. good stuff.
http://www.liberalpropaganda.org/ -
from National Review, 2003-Apr-4, by David Koppel:
Bowling Truths
Michael Moore's mocking.
In the field of mockumentary filmmaking, there are two giants. Rob Reiner created the genre with his film This is Spinal Tap. Michael Moore has taken the genre to an entirely different level, with Bowling for Columbine.
In 1984, This is Spinal Tap premiered as the world's first self-described "mockumentary." The film purported to be a documentary of a heavy-metal band called "Spinal Tap." In fact, there was no such band. No group had ever hit the charts in the 1960s with a song called "Listen to the Flower People." No rock drummer named John "Stumpy" Pepys had ever died in an inexplicable gardening accident. No arena rock performance had ever featured a pair of midgets dancing around an 18-inch replica of Stonehenge.
Over the course of the movie, most viewers figured out that "Spinal Tap" was not a real band. The realization often came somewhere between the band's rocker "Big Bottom" ("I met her on Monday; it was my lucky bun day") and the sensitive ballad "Lick My Love Pump."
Still, a substantial portion of the audience sat through the entire film without ever realizing that the whole thing was a joke. They left the theatre believing that there really was a band called Spinal Tap. In response, the creators ended up producing a Spinal Tap MTV video, and even a 1992 Spinal Tap "Reunion" tour. The stupidity of a fraction of the audience had brought its own "reality" to life.
This is Spinal Tap is an excellent movie which was, unfortunately, neglected by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. No such fate befell Bowling for Columbine. While only an unusually dim minority believe that Tap is truth, Bowling for Columbine has seduced almost all of its audiences with its brazen mockumentary.
You can't really understand the artistic accomplishment of This is Spinal Tap if you naively expect to find the album Smell the Glove in your local music store. Likewise, you cannot understand the brilliance of Bowling for Columbine if you actually believe the purported facts in this mockumentary. For the benefit of the overly credulous, let me summarize some of the "facts" in Bowling for Columbine. Then, I will explain how Michael Moore demolishes the pretensions of the audience and of elite cinematic opinion in a way that has never before been accomplished.
FICTITIOUS "FACTS"
The introduction of Bowling is a purported clip from an NRA documentary, announcing that the viewer is about to see a National Rifle Association film. Obviously, Bowling is not an NRA film, and so Moore makes it clear right at the beginning that Bowling is not a documentary (based on true facts), but rather a mockumentary (based on fictitious "facts"). It's a humorous movie, but the biggest joke is on the audience, which credulously accepts the "facts" in the movie as if they were true.
The first mockumentary "fact" is the title itself. The Columbine murderers were enrolled in a high-school bowling class. After the NRA introduction, the film begins on the morning of April 20, 1999, the day of the Columbine murders. Narrator Moore announces that on that day, "Two boys went bowling at six in the morning." This serves as a setup for a later segment looking at the causes of Columbine, and arguing that blaming violent video games (which the killers played obsessively) or Marilyn Manson music (which the killers enjoyed) makes no more sense than blaming bowling.
In fact, the two killers ditched bowling class on the day of the murders. The police investigation found that none of the students in the bowling class that morning had seen the killers that day. The police report was completed long before the release of Bowling for Columbine, so the title itself is a deliberate falsehood. (I don't use the word "lie" because the mockumentary genre allows for the use of invented facts.)
After the April 20 lead-in, Bowling begins an examination of middle-American gun culture, and indulges the bicoastal elite's snobbery toward American gun owners.
We are taken to the North County Bank in Michigan, which -
You people are fucked up, I'm strapping a Spindizzy to the back of my Beemer and getting the fuck outa here. Y'all come back now, Y'hear?
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You said "Someone tell me this: when Saddam's men tortured prisoners, it was Saddams fault. But when American troops torture prisoners, Bush has nothing to do with that. Suddenly its a few rougue. Double standard." What the hell drugs are you on? IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE. The difference is that the few American soldiers -- accent on FEW -- who may have engaged in "torture" practices on Iraqi prisoners did it by BREAKING orders and specific rules of military conduct that they were TOLD to follow. So Bush ISN'T responsible because the one thing he and the Pentagon had ordered against and DIDN'T want to see happen was something like this. On the complete polar OPPOSITE end of the spectrum, Saddam's men DID torture people purposely and FAR MORE maliciously and violently WITH the full approval of Saddam and full government sanction specifically using torture AS a way to keep people in line. The two examples aren't even close! Come back to reality, dude!!!
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Every democracy gets the government it deserves, so the US deserved Bush when he "won" the election. All the rabid ravings in this forum won't change the fact that this president managed to alienate about every former US-ally.
I don't have any faith whatsoever in Kerry, but another four years perpetuating the Bush-dynasty of reign would I think be disasterous for the US. To people like me, living outside the US, America is going down a very dark alley.
I hope, at some point, common sense will once again prevail, even though I on the one hand sympathize with the fact that the US after 911 is acting liking a wounded animal lashing out, but the time has come to let rationality take posession again over instinct, if for no other reason than to let the wounds heal.
Paranoia is not like a well known movie said a "heightened sense of reality"; it is an overstimulated sense of self-preservation after a traumatizing experience.
I hope the more sane part of America will get up and smell the roses and take action in November, before the damage your nation is doing to itself, let alone the rest of the world, becomes irreparable.
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That's stupid. Oh yeah, and all you liberals - Read Michael Moore's defense under the wacko attacko section of his website. Then read the National Review article that mental triad posted. Now if, after that, you can honestly tell me Michael Moore doesn't distort the facts, you are a dumbass. And don't come back at me with some lame ass "well, like, bush distorts facts" load of crap either. Unless you can show me cold hard proof of his distortion.
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May 07, 2004 5:02:38 AM CDT
"Sure we sexually assaulted a few men, women and children in Ira
by shiva
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really, how can anyone defend this man?
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All of you liberals who are so blinded by your hate for Bush remind me of another group of people. Oddly enough, you remind me of the conservatives who were so bent on convincing everyone that Clinton had Vince Foster killed. I didn't particularly like those people and I don't particularly like you people either. QUIT LIVING IN A FANTASY WORLD WHERE EVERYTHING IS A CONSPIRACY!!! GET REAL!!
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Do young modern americans in this day and age REALLY buy into all this polarised two-party crap? Liberal vs Democrat, left vs right? In spite of everything thats happened in recent years do you honestly still believe that the system is working, that it even exists? Why do these broad moral and ideological arguments have to conform to one of two political frameworks laid out for us by corrupt dishonest politicians? It doesnt matter which side you sit on, the fence is broken people. There are stupid white men on both sides.
Accepting that, can we stop being so pedantic in our arguments. All I have heard out of Moores detractors so far are accusations of 'lying' that they cant back up or dont stand up to scrutiny. Moore said something you don't like? Shocking. Okay, COUNTER ARGUE! Dont just accuse him of lying. Moore made a film in which he ultimately accuses a paranoia inducing media of creating a gun loving environment which contributed to the columbine massacre, and has created within America a broad world view that has lead us down a path of foreign policy for which the rest of the world hates us and which lead to the 9/11 attacks. What Moore made was an essay. A series of opinions and arguments related through image systems. If you dont like what he said TELL US WHY HE'S WRONG. Calling him a liar doesnt even make sense. An opinion cant be a lie. Whenever the 'left' make 'accusations' like this, there are always people on the other side who try to detract attention from whats really important with pedantic semantic arguments. If you dont like Moore and his film, then for gods sake argue back. Calling him a liar or calling him fat, but not telling us why he's wrong, only reinforces his arguements. And you dont want that, right?
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What is irrepairable damage? During world war 2, Germany killed almost 20 million Russians, 6 million Jews, and they conquered and sacked France. And yet they seem to be on better than speaking terms a scant 50 years later.
Don't get me wrong, I don't condone the Iraqi prisoner abuse. I feel the soldiers responsible should be court-martialed and due time in prison. But irrepairable damage? -
Moore won an oscar for Best Documentary for BFC. So how is any of it opinion? If you want to see where some of his distortion's in the movie are, you can go to http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20021119.html. Look around at the spinsanity site a little, you will see it isn't some right-wing hack site as it is filled with distortions they call Bush on.
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...seems to consist of:
1. Moore-hater says he hates Moore. Says Moore is a liar.
2. Moore-lover says he hates Moore-haters. Says Moore-haters are liars. Says they never provide evidence of Moore's lies.
3. Moore-hater replies with INSANELY LONG POSTS/LINKS listing encyclopedic proof of Moore's lies.
4. Moore-lover retorts that Moore-haters never provide evidence.
It's part 4 I don't understand.
Here's a link to today's Independent (U.K.), a very left-wing newspaper:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=518901 -
That a movie is a documentary, doesn
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Saddam is shown on tape ordering the execution of his rivals. They are seen being dragged out of the meeting and then being shot.
Just how fucking stupid are you man?
For fucks sake your mother should have aborted! :(( -
Putting my political views aside for a moment to speak to a much more serious concern regarding Michael Moore's films. I find them difficult to watch...again, not because of his leftist view...but more so because everytime I see him I can't stop thinking that he looks like he must smell like dirty socks. It's quite distracting really.
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Amazing, I wake up to see that Michael Moore was interviewed last night. Evidently, Mr. Moore knew a year ago that Disney was not going to distribute the film, even though they helped finance it in the first place. Mr. Moore lied to us all about Disney dropping the movie at the last minute!! I wonder what else he might lie about? The scary thing is that by using his definition, the truth about Mr. Moore is now out. He lied--why?--publicity--why?--To make more money. So Mr. Moore lied to America to make money for himself and his "corporations". Oh my God! Michiael Moore is a closet Republican!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow, who would have believed it. :P -
May 07, 2004 8:30:58 AM CDT
MICHAEL IF YOU REALLY WANT PEOPLE TO SEE THIS FILM, WHATEVER THE
by workshed
You know it's gonna happen any way. This is a GOOD idea. No one should get fat from this movie. Hell, you could even lose a few pounds yourself.
You know I am right. DO IT! NOW! -
I just wanted to say that I personally can't wait for this movie to come out in full release. I have a question though, all these people who are slamming Michael Moore, are they regular posters or shills for the Repuglican party?!?
Grem- -
To all the NeoCons--This isn't the Rush Limbaugh talk-back--so your illegible, foul-mouthed lies and whining are being read by everybody, including people who are not used to reading the kinds of vulgar, violent, mean-spirited diatribes that you use when you write to liberal politicians and the like. What I'm saying is--your words are showing you all for the bullying, angry, foulmouthed bigots that you are and that does as much damage to the Rethuglican party as any movie that Michael Moore could ever make. Keep it up, because A)I want people to see how NeoCons really behave--they hide behind internet secrecy to tell their own brands of lies and B)You make Michael Moore and the rest of us liberals look all the more intelligent with your rants.
God Bless--Grem- -
May 07, 2004 1:51:19 PM CDT
May 7th: Moore admits to CNN that he made the whole thing up.
by fluffyunbound
07 May 2004
Less than 24 hours after accusing the Walt Disney Company of pulling the plug on his latest documentary in a blatant attempt at political censorship, the rabble-rousing film-maker Michael Moore has admitted he knew a year ago that Disney had no intention of distributing it.
The admission, during an interview with CNN, undermined Moore's claim that Disney was trying to sabotage the US release of Fahrenheit 911 just days before its world premiere at the Cannes film festival. // xttp://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=518901
Oh well, it's all in a good cause, though, right? -
May 07, 2004 2:36:42 PM CDT
Clairebrewsterx makes Moore's point better than Moore does.
by fluffyunbound
Strangely, you don't seem to have had to make shit up to do it. You just wrote one sentence. The problem with Moore is that isn't good enough for him - he wants to make films, and that means he has to use images, and he has absolutely no qualms about using images that either deliberately mislead or are falsely associated. It's the difference between telling a woman she is thin when she isn't, and handing her a doctored photo of herself showing a thin person. One is a kindness, the other offends the honesty of the eye. And by the way, if you are interested in a counter argument to Moore's thesis in BFC, here's mine: There IS something different about American society that makes it more violent. Americans tend to believe that they have the right to demand just outcomes, and to impose them by force if necessary. We have no political or cultural tradition of subordination, the way literally every other society [including Commonwealth societies like Canada, which are more direct inheritors of the mental habits inherent in the British class system than the US is] does. When serfs feel that they are mistreated, they bow their heads lower. When people who aren't serfs feel they are mistreated, if they can't get satisfaction any other way they try to kill someone. Our culture's roots are revolutionary, our southern states kept up a duelling culture longer than most other places, and our west supported a vigilante culture until nearly the time of the Great Depression. It doesn't surprise me that people from that culture would be more apt to turn to private violence as a solution to their problems than people from, say, Canada, since that nation's entire reason for a separate existence on this continent is the fact that it did NOT rebel, but submitted. Our criminals think they deserve more property - so they kill people. Dylan Klebold thought he was getting the short end of the stick - so he called his peers to account, with emphasis. It is not fear that drives these things - fear would make us meek. Fear won't create killers. But an exaggerated [but salutary] sense that one has the moral right to demand satisfaction, and a heightened expectation for what justice is and how it relates to one PERSONALLY - now that's a motivation that will create killers. Now, I may just be pulling all of this out of my ass, but it's AT LEAST as plausible as Moore's thesis, and at least I'm not issuing BS press releases about MY claims.
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You know what? Your point is practically indistinguishable from Michael Moores. His main point is that americans have an inherent aggressivenes in their culture, that makes it the number one murdercapital in the world. Wether it
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If the root of America's greater "psychological" or "cultural" aggression is fear created by a corrupt media, than it would be appropriate to take corrective action to try to ameliorate the problem and get rid of the fear. If the root of the aggression is instead our focus on individualism, freedom and justice [which can express itself in violence when frustrated, or when a given person - rightly or wrongly - perceives that it has been frustrated] than our aggression is part of what makes us distinctive and worthwhile and people are just going to have to shut up and tough it out. If I was told that I could flip a switch and "orientalize" the American psyche [in the Wittfogel sense], and by doing so reduce the murder rate to 0, I wouldn't do it. I would say, "Too bad, Mr. Murder Victim. I'd like to help you out, but I just can't."
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...is by far the most insightful here. You really nailed the whole thing. Of course I don't know why you bothered articulating your argument when it looks much easier just to cut'n'paste huge chunks of other people's words. I'm talking to both sides here...really people, it just makes you look like mindless idiots.
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Like every rich family doesn't have a skeleton in their closet. Condemn the sons for the father's sins? Please. The Kennedy camelot myth? What about the fact that their legacy comes from Bootlegging and mob connections? And like has already been pointed out here, of course it's about the oil, or more like, stabilizing the idiots who control our lifeblood. It's about trying to put reasonable people and factions in charge who won't blackmail us with what we need to function. What the fuck do you idiot enviro liberals think is going to happen if we don't have that oil? Mexico's reserves are playing out, we can't drill in Alaska because of the fucking Caribou, and all our refineries are outdated and running at full capacity. Why the high gas prices? Shit. We can't even think about building new ones without some asshole screaming about purple spotted newts, or some other shit and killing the idea outright or strangling it within an eternity of legal limbo. Wind power isn't going to cut it. Solar power isn't going to cut it, and the nuclear plant is an even bigger no no than the refineries. Sometimes you have to choose a necessary evil. Stabilizing the middle east, by force if needed, is a necessary evil. In the aftermath, you make life better for the people there, and the world a safer place. Unless you'd all like to live like the fucking Amish, but hey that's your choice.
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To GreatOne, the person who posted this incredibly intelligent statement(speaking of Michael Moore):
"His public persona is that of an anti-corporate crusader from working-class Flint, Michigan, who wears a constant uniform of slouchy jeans, a plaid shirt and a Detroit Tigers baseball cap. But the real Michael Moore rides in limos and lives in a swanky $1.2 million Manhattan apartment."
Ok, he lives in luxury-he has money, you honky! Where do you want him to live? In the slums or the delapidated housing projects with those whom he fights for? Just because someone fights for something doesn't mean they have to go live among it. The issue isn't really where or how he lives but that he fights for what so few others do. Yes, there are many living in comfortable situations who don't do a damn thing for anyone less fortunate than they are-why don't you attack them? Attacking Moore for the price of his house is insipid. No, it doesn't make him a hypocrite-the refreshing thing is that he's very rich and CONTINUES to fight adamantly for those in poverty. You can count celebrities who do that on one hand-and I'll bet you wouldn't even have to use all the fingers!
And insulting Moore by calling him a "fatass" only proves that you have nothing on him. So he's overweight-that automatically makes you question his truthfulness or ethics? I pity you. -
"FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST!!!! KEEP THE FUCKING POLITICS OUT OF THIS FUCKING SITE!!!!!!!!!"
Impossible to do. Every film is political, whether directly or indirectly. Every film is made in a specific time period and either upholds,rejects, or skews the values and political climate of that time. You cannot separate art from politics. Even if an artist doesn't INTEND to be political, he/she is still sending a political, social, and personal message. -
To paraphrase: "I knew Carl Kolchak, I grew up with Carl Kolchak, and, Michael Moore, you're no Carl Kolchak." If nothing else, Carl has better dress sense. ;) http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/4991/klchkhom.htm
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We shouldn't drill in Alaska because it's home to tons of other species who need and deserve a place to live in peace. We have no right to destroy their homes. I don't expect to get through to you though-you're probably just another conservative asshole who thinks humans have the right to do whatever they want, whenever and wherever-how sad you people are. The only real answer to this oil crisis is to find a more efficient and less environmentally toxic fuel source. It's completely possible. The only thing stopping it from happening is the lack of willingness of people who oppose change. -
"I don't expect to get through to you though-you're probably just another conservative asshole who thinks humans have the right to do whatever they want, whenever and wherever-how sad you people are. The only real answer to this oil crisis is to find a more efficient and less environmentally toxic fuel source. It's completely possible. The only thing stopping it from happening is the lack of willingness of people who oppose change."
I'm all for alternatives, but I'm also all for reality. Wishful thinking isn't going to make a magical immediate fuel alternative appear. Until we can make mass alternative forms of clean energy available, we have to have a stable oil supply. That's not being an asshole, that's just being in touch with reality. Even mass deployment of fuel cell technology is still 6-8 years down the road. And just for the record, when you do have alternatives such as windmill farms, invariably, some other liberal, nimby or animal rights activist comes along and finds a reason not to do that either. Take the windmill farm that nobody wanted because it would spoil their scenic vista. Not to mention the complaining about the number of birds killed by them. Coal is dirty. Tidal generators are only good for small to moderate size coastal cities. Solar is still too expensive on a mass scale. Geothermal is only an option if you happen to have a vent handy, and hydroelectric requires a convenient water source and dam. The only alternatives we have right now and for the near future are oil and nuclear fission. Oil is the lifeblood that sustains our society, and until we can implement some sort of alternative on a grand scale, we're stuck with it. That's just a simple fact. That fact gives any idiot with control over the oil a leash by which to drag us around. Life isn't always simple, deal with it. -
Harry for Governor
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May 08, 2004 4:40:04 AM CDT
The way Moore makes documentaries, he could make Jesus' death lo
by cybie
The way Moore makes documentaries, he could make Jesus' death look like suicide!
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Based on your post, I agree with you. I was arguing with Stoopid -- go back and reread the posts in order. If you read them in order you'll see that I WAS saying Saddam was the true cocksucker because (the same as you noted) Saddam WOULD sit in a meeting and then take direct charge himself and order his men to go out and torture, kill or rape prisoners. I was arguing that very point. It's STOOPID who was saying that the way Saddam acted is the same was Bush is acting. STOOPID'S view is that Saddam and Bush are equally guilty, a view I DON'T agree with. As I said in my original post to him, the actions Saddam took in torturing prisoners versus Bush's role in the current U.S. mess aren't even close...
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..you will have to accept further 9-11s for the actions of your aggressive culture. This is not something that is going to be stopped by bombing the shit out of other countries, quite the opposite. I doubt that americans are a different species, but they do have a culture, a government and a media that feeds them in a way to keep up a mindset that is counterproductive to regular americans, ie those that will die in terroristattacks or get shot in Iraq or other places. The US has a military-industrial complex, that is far superior to anything else in the world. It also has a VERY rich elite, and a big middle class that is well off, but beyond this, the US is to be classified on the level of a third world country. Vast masses of poor, undereducated and malnourished people, and a "democracy" that is a gross parody. Too bad that too many americans can
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christ i never thought i'd say this but you americans are outrageous...if moore lies, then what is he lying about? go on, give us some facts? its no wonder the usa is so fucked up when any sign of political speech is shot down as lies, despite the fact that, if you leave your own backyard for maybe a second, you'll see that moore is basically presenting to you how much of the world sees you; racist, ignorant and above all, plain stupid. obviously im not sepaking for all americans, that wouldnt be fair and it seems like a lot of you support his work, which is cool. but the rest of you need to leave the man alone and realise that, alhtough it doesnt fit your own twisted politcal agenda, moore is saying things that need to be heard. ps im fron england, so im sure someone can try and write off what i've said by bashing blair. well good luck but i probably beat ya to it.
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May 08, 2004 3:21:42 PM CDT
What about us conservatives who are AGAINST Bush as President?
by cknightshift
I've got my own lil' "horror story" to tell about Dubya's antics, how he's a control-freak and how fanatical his followers are to the point of being willing to die for the guy, I'd bet good money on. And for the record, I'm a politically CONSERVATIVE, small-government, child-of-the-Reagan-80s and proud of it, Christian (who also runs the website of the independent Baptist church that I'm a member of). To paraphrase Voltair, "the Holy Christian Presidency" is neither holy, nor Christian, nor a presidency. Do I hold a grudge because of something that Bush personally ordered against me and another journalist? Nah... I'm beyond that kind of angry now. Anger and hate don't do you any good, it takes away from your life. Unfortunately "anger and hate" are about the only consistent things that have come out of this White House. My vote in 2000 was a write-in for Alfred E. Neuman, and given the lackluster choice between The Two Clowns(tm) it'll be either the Constitution Party's Peroutka or Neuman again come November.
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hey new poster. I always read the inanities around here, but never got aggravated enough to actually post something.
I'm not really pro-gun, but I'm definitely pro-truth.
Michael Moore put up his responses to the "right wing crazies," but he did a pretty hacked up job, and ignored most of the points.
I just googled and found this site
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
that picks apart the film pretty well.
I don't know anything about Hardy, he might be a Nazi, who knows, but he's got absolute proof that Moore did a hack job on that film, possibly staged some scenes, etc.
I'll just highlight one point, and maybe you all should look at the rest rather than yelling at each other and calling more a big fatass.
Moore claims on his site that there was one "typo," over the Willy Horton ad, which he changed for the DVD.
The question is, why would he add a subtitle to a political ad? That's like adding your logo to the Enola Gay, or cutting Tinkerbell into the Zapruder footgae. OK, not as earth shattering historically, but if we're talking about a documentary, shouldn't historical documents (be they paper, video, audio, film) be treated as the very REAL artifacts that they are? He admits on his OWN SITE in DEFENSE of HIMSELF that he altered a historical document? Why did he do that?
Hardy then goes on to claim that that ad was actually a composite, one that BUSHQUAYLE ran, and another by a special interest group. BQ didn't show the race of the guy going through the revolving door, but the special interest ad did. Moore cut them together to portray an incorrect version of history.
OK, it can be argued that idealogically the ads both WANTED to play the race card, etc.
But that's an opinion - and Moore took two facts to create at best a misleading hybrid, and at worst (annd most monstrous, when it comes to really defaming a US President for no good reason) a fucking mutant.
Anyway, I think anyone who takes Moore at face value should look into the very real concerns about his filmmaking.
I'm totally for open debate, but sometimes you lefties just assume that because one of your guys is being criticized, it's some right-wing plot.
I have all respect for people to are informed and honest, but don't let yourselves be spoon fed honey just beacuse it feels right, cus' that honey might be sweetin' up a heaping pile of bullshit.
And just in context of filmmaking, this is such a vital discussion! How much PBS stuff or other docs are true? I'm a editor, and I know how to make people say things. I don't make people say things they definitely DON'T believe, but I sure as hell can if I want to. Unless you do it (and I've been cutting for 8 years) you don't understand the power we have- to take an hour speech as distill it into 5 or 6 morsels of truth, the essence of the thing - you can fuck it up, of course, through ineptitude or whatever. But we all know Moore isn't an idiot. He's working with real pro editors.
Just take a look, folks, and keep fightin'.
peace + love
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I hate giving my own political opinions on this site, cos I kind of respect everyone here as a fellow film lover and don't want to offend their personal views of the world...but even so, talkbacks like this are fascinating stuff to read. Keep it up guys! We're keeping democracy alive here, and enlightening each others perspectives too. By the way, I'm British, and I feel I should point out that even though our prime minister is backing your president, he's doing it at serious cost to his own domestic popularity; VERY FEW Britons respect George W. Bush the way we respected Reagon, Bush Snr or Clinton. I suspect the same is true of the rest of the world. I guess we Brits will always be your friends even when we don't like your leaders, but please...think carefully when you vote this November. You're not just voting for the leader of your country; you're voting for the man most other nations will look to for support in their own diplomatic affairs. Make sure you pick a good one. Peace - Aston Lad.
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TenPin hates the freshmen he teaches... I don't hate anyone, I simply find that my students tend to be severly uneducated in politics and critical thought. I have my problems with this adminstration, the main one is that I feel making an uninformed decision is dangerous. For this same reason, I worry about my students taking part in the voting process, they are severely uninformed.
...practices his own terrible brand of grammar...I agree that my grammar is poor. Working with mathematic proofs for eight years has impaired my abilities. I also can't spell worth a crap anymore. Believe it or not, I used to be very proficient in grammar (having a mom who taught high school english helped) ... pulls out a nonsensical "logic" argument to explain how he - and only he - can understand the dumbed-down speechisms of Dubya ... did I say that only I understand? I believe that Bush gets his point across. Kerry, on the other hand, seems to dance around, but never quite lays out, his point. This past week was the first time that I had heard Kerry actually be specific about a view. ... and then blames MTV for the supposed simple-mindedness of today's American youth. You can blame MTV for the kids' bad taste in music, sure...I don't blame MTV, I blame many things (including TV but nothing specific about MTV) for thier simple-mindedness, mostly the education system. I am just sick and tired of hearing from regular people and politicians (and this board) political arguments that are completly invalid. Things like "Bush screwed the economy" or "Clinton was a bad president because he had affairs" even though the economy tanked while Clinton was still in office (and is cyclic, so don't try to blame it on Clinton either)and almost every president of the last century had an affiar (including Bush 41). These arguments generally turn into name calling (by the way I love people who complain about the "idiots" who are resorting to name calling) which shows a clear inability to actually debate. I don't hate my students, I like them and I love teaching. It is just depressing to see how little critical thinking they developed in their previous twelve years of school. -
May 08, 2004 9:15:08 PM CDT
Michael Moore is a fucking legend!! He's going to be the savious
by theginger twit
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We have had the technology for a better and more efficient fuel source since THE 1950's!!! Use your fucking heads, people. We are not evolving our source of fuel because it's a lucrative business for the puppet masters running our country. THEY won't change because they don't have to. But us Americans need our SUV's and sports cars that do 140mph, I guess. Sheeyat... there are scientists that have created cars that run off of everything from beer to milk. Not to mention the HONDA HYBRID and the TOYOTA PRIUS, which run off battery. Look at how fast technology (in general) grows in this country. You're telling me we still need to rely on oil to run our cars? Fuck the oil tycoons. Fuck Bush. Fuck all the fatcats running this country. I have a dream. A dream that one day our votes matter and politics was something that the people actually cared about... -Lino-
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I find it funny when someone says that Solar power is to expensive to set up and maintain... but over 100 BILLION for a slaughter of a nation to steal it's oil is fully within economic grasp?? Truth is, there are hundreds of energy sourse. Ranging from water to air. There are also 'secret' sources of very powerful and potent energy which come from the very gravity of the Earth. The problem is that such technology can be developed into incredible vehicles which can even lead to the flying car. They have it now. But the powerful elite have to keep us all locked down. They fear the change, and the loss of their ego status. point is, Oil aint the the blood of our society, just the blood of the Earth. Further more, Oil is plentiful deeper in the Earth core. In the middle east it's easier to get to because of the surface wells.
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Michael Moore is the only american voice we can trust. When will all you right-wing bible bashing oil drinking trailer trash just die? Bush needs to be stopped, Or the human race will not be around much longer. Simple as.
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