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Due to the extraordinary amount of cool DVDs coming out in May - I've been forced to divide the column into two pieces. To Return To Part 1 CLICK HERE!!!!

May 18, 2004

ANGEL HEART (Special Edition)

Known at the time for Lisa Bonet’s hot as hell fuck scene, but the film is actually far better than that. Alan Parker created a film that sweats off your screen and the 20lbs of sweat soaked extras on this disc have me lining up to replace my threadbare edition from years ago.


From everything I hear, you should stay far away from the remake in cinemas this summer, but the super-widescreen edition being restored and brought to life here is a must own. Everybody makes so much about the cameos, but frankly Cantinflas is who makes this film worth owning. Mexico’s greatest comedian, and one of the world’s great unheralded comedians. I dream of the day where all his films are subtitled and out on DVD – but the much maligned world of black & white Mexican cinema… Not just Cantinflas, but the brilliant muralist work of Emilio ‘Indio’ Fernandez too! One of the great epics.


Heralded by many critics, but barely seen due to its arthouse distribution, here’s a chance for many of you to discover Guy Maddin’s brilliance for the first time. A beautiful ballet of Dracula done very old-fashioned, but boiling with sensuality and sexuality. If you’re tired of techno vampires and goth gone wild and cg hell, this is the cure…

ENTER THE DRAGON (2-DVD Special Edition)

I know nothing about this edition except that there are 2 discs. I love the film and can pretty much quote every scene and sing every note of Lalo’s brilliant score. There’s 2 DVDs and I’m hoping for a Theatrical Version as I loathe the Special Edition with that lame Obi-Wan ghost crap. Anxious to check this set out!


I love the Joan of Arc movies. The best being LA PASSION DE JEANNE D’ARC by Carl Theodor Dreyer, then there was MESSENGER: THE STORY OF JOAN OF ARC that Luc Besson did, which I love… and then the worst of the three was the first I fell in love with, which is Ingrid Bergman’s JOAN OF ARC. After she left Rick in the fog to love that fucking Frenchman in CASABLANCA, I wanted her to burn, and here I get my wish! More melodrama than spectacle… and she does no aerobics either… but she does have the advantage of being the most timelessly beautiful Joan of Arc in film history. This dvd is fully restored to the original theatrical length of 145 minutes - and that is glorious.


Speaking of Women that folks wanted to burn at the stake, I believe that this OLYMPIA dvd is the combined OLYMPIA 1 & 2 as filmed by Leni Riefenstahl at the 1938 Olympics in Berlin. Almost nothing is known about this disc – and I’m holding off purchasing it until I hold it in my hands and am convinced it is Leni’s OLYMPIA – but on Amazon, they claim it has Jesse Owens… and that it is 186 minutes long, which is just about right. SO… I’m hopeful, as this desperately NEEDS to be out on Dvd as it is definitely the most beautiful sports documentary to focus on the Olympic Games in history. And one of the most beautiful films ever made – politics aside. I’m really hoping this is the right film.

SAMURAI TRILOGY BOX SET – Criterion Collection

Ok – On THE LAST SAMURAI description in Part 1, I said if you were going to get only one Samurai dvd set this month, look below… well this is it. Hiroshi Inagaki’s stunningly brilliant trilogy known as THE SAMURAI TRILOGY and starring Toshiro Mifune as the utterly badass Musashi Miyamoto… well trilogies rarely if ever get better than this. Fantastic is a tame word, but a nice beginning in describing these films.

THE TIN DRUM – Criterion Collection

Banned in Oklahoma as Child Pornography – which is documented on this fantastic disc as a documentary called BANNED IN OKLAHOMA – this utterly haunting and brilliant film and disc is complemented by a full to the brim set of extras including commentary, isolated score, deleted scenes and more. Films don’t document the horrors of life as realistically or as bizarre as this film shows, but this is a true cineaste’s treasure. As are nearly all Criterion releases btw.


While not nearly the treasure that the previous two Mickey Mouse collections were, it is still quite something. In an odd way, perhaps my fave cartoon on this set is RUNAWAY BRAIN – if only because it is absolutely insane. When the psychotic deranged rape-fantasy-fueled Mickey goes after Minnie as the sexually limp Mickey is stuck in a giant’s monster-sized body… well the cartoon is UTTERLY DERANGED. But there’s tons of magic vintage thrills on this set. I love TUGBOAT MICKEY and THE NIFTY NINETIES… plus the Pluto toons on here rule. I love it when Pluto was on his more solo tail tales – as the story telling was pure animation minus the crutch of dialogue, and Pluto was a god!


This has been my most anticipated disc for ages. I’ve had it ordered since October and the concept that I’m less than a month away from possibly getting to see VICTORY THROUGH AIR POWER is almost too much to be believed. I have many of the toons on this set on 16mm, as that was the only way to possess them up until now, and there’s many here that this will be the first chance in my life that I’ll ever be able to see them. I’m so utterly giddy to see these War Time Propaganda toons being treated as the jewels of history that they are, instead of being hid away in a vault of company fear. These toons cease to be mere entertainment, and are in actuality timeless important documents of history which forever molded and motivated the minds of their era. The single best release in May and very well the best release of 2004. It can not get to my house soon enough!


Some people are Mickey men, others still may be Goofy dudes, but I’ve always favored Donald. There’s something sublimely perfect about the ducks, be they black or white, they are always more than foul fowl, they’re human. They’re more textured with frailties and human sins… I love Donald Duck! And the little featurette about Clarence “Ducky” Nash is something I can’t wait for. I still remember seeing him go on Johnny Carson as a kid and seeing Donald’s voice escape that amazing throat of his and just gawk in wonder. It was the first time in my childhood that I realized that Cartoons live in all of us, we only need give voice to them.


OH – I can’t wait for this one too. The Tomorrowland features rule. In THE ANIMATION SHOW, you get a trippy as hell clip from “MARS AND BEYOND” but here you get the full length deal, plus MAN IN SPACE and MAN AND THE MOON! These discs about the dream of Disneyland and Epcot… and awakening the dreams and imaginations of a nation of future astronomers and astronauts… scientist and futurists… If only Disney was this cool today.

May 25, 2004


This DVD rules. It has a feature length Elvis voiced commentary by Bruce Campbell that might very well be the single greatest extra in the history of DVDs. It will make you weep laughing. It is done completely straight. Bruce plays it as though Elvis was watching this BUBBA HO-TEP for the very first time and didn’t entirely approve of what this Don Costarooney and Bruce Camtail have done with his image. I loved BUBBA HO-TEP… let Quint do endless coverage of the film on the site, but the film with commentary by Elvis Campbell is one of the greatest comedic works I’ve had a pleasure to enjoy. Fantastic.


Herc threatened to kill me if I didn’t put this on here, and Moriarty claims it is his favorite season. Personally, I’m partial to Season 4… of course that’s the only season I’ve seen. But Herc swears he’ll remedy that.


This was originally supposed to be directed by Akira Kurosawa – who left the project right before filming, but many of his plans were used. Instead it was directed by Robert Siodmak (Curt’s bro) and I caught this film by accident a while back and was blown away. I had never heard that Robert “Quint” Shaw had played General George Armstrong Custer – and he’s brilliant. This is a beautiful widescreen forgotten epic, and when you see the Log Escape… you’ll know it when you see it… You’ll be in AWE… the scene is amazing! While watching it, I was constantly wondering… is this Kurosawa storyboards or Siodmak invention. Ultimately, who cares… the movie is wonderful and now it can be played whenever I want.

THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY ( Extended Version Collector’s Set)

If you haven’t seen the extended edition of THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY on the big screen… I weep for you. My god, I got to see this stunning new edition at the Paramount Theater here in Austin in Digital sound and WOW. However, that was nothing to getting this DVD and watching the film in its original Italian Mono soundtrack as Leone originally intended and the documentaries. WOW – this DVD is truly epic. And I highly recommend putting on the subtitles and watching it in Italian… something so pure about that.

THE GREAT ESCAPE ( 2-Disc Collector’s Set )

One helluva great movie. Here the film is gorgeously digitally restored, but again… the documentaries on this set are great. All the work that went into recreating the real stalag was daunting. Watching the guys that REALLY worked on the escape talking about what really happened was amazing. Everything about this disc is glorious, much like THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY set. Great films given the great release they both deserve!


Based on THE G-STRING MURDERS by famed Gypsy Rose Lee, this flick is a tame telling of that incredibly racy bit of fiction, but it is a really darn good film from an era when you couldn’t get much more adult. There’s a part of me that wishes I could send Tarantino back in time to adapt THE G-STRING MURDERS to the screen using 3-strip Technicolor and Barbara Stanwyck – as her performance in this is really great… but then she always was great.


My favorite version of the Arthur legend is EXCALIBUR, but Bresson’s film is amazing in the way it strips the legend and myth away from allegory and fanciful nature of the Arthur tales. The result while interesting is a complete bore. Telling the “True” story about Arthur is incredibly stupid, it is MYTHOLOGY, FICTION, LEGEND. It is meant to soar above and beyond, to be about the dreams of heroes rather than the shallow reality that most are rapist and murders when the eyes turn away. Give me Boorman’s film or Richard Thorpe’s KNIGHTS OF THE ROUND TABLE any day of the week, rather than the “Truth” that this or any other “TRUE” version will attempt.

THE LEOPARD – Criterion Collection

Visconti gets his directing mitts on Burt Lancaster and won a Golden Palm at Cannes in 1963 for it. Not for all, but for those that love Visconti’s visions, this film is great. Lancaster gives a wonderfully nuanced performance as a Prince in a world that ceases to recognize such titles. Alan Delon is great as always and Claudia Cardinale is just always yummy and wonderful. I could watch static on screen and be fascinated if it had this Nina Rota score, and having Criterion restore this sucker is a treat!


One step closer to getting the Expanded Edition! I absolutely love this film. There really isn’t much more I can add to this, but I was talking to Tom Savini the other day and apparently he’s every bit as addicted to these films as the biggest geek out there. He claims he watches the films whilst clutching his reproduction of Aragorn’s Anduril and I’m just giddy at the thought of that. As I’m not quite man enough to wield Anduril, I watch whilst waving about STING! Hehehehe! God, I love being a geek!


There’s something wickedly wonderful about sandwiching Ed Wood’s worst film (albeit he's just the screenwriter) between Peter Jackson’s masterpiece and Ingmar Bergman’s. The film was banned in Finland, and you have to wonder if that was for sexuality or a nation-wide critical protection to the eyes and ears of the Finnish people from having to endure this film. This is the sleazy flipside to Burton’s ED WOOD… the drug addled sex fetishist gone wild. This is ORGY OF THE DEAD, and you’ll be a different person after you survive it.

SMILES OF A SUMMER NIGHT – Criterion Collection

For everyone that thinks of Bergman as the guy that put Ming The Merciless in a chess game with The Grim Reaper… well, here’s the film to give you a completely different and wondrous side of a brilliant artist and filmmaker. This film is a joy. It is like the scent of a flowered hill in the morning or that feeling of the most comfy bed on that morning you just want to stretch and giggle with the one you love. This film is magic. DVD has an intro by Ingmar Bergman, commentary by the producer and more!

STRAY DOG – Criterion Collection

You think that all Kurosawa & Mifuni can do are Samurai Films? Here he does a great modern day thriller about a young Detective that lost his gun and is deeply ashamed and unhinged about it. Kinda like a certain character in MAGNOLIA… ahem. Here Kurosawa does Film Noir and my god does he know how to do it. A really great hot sweaty humid film to go with ANGEL HEART earlier in this list… in many ways a perfect double feature!


Most people know Audie Murphy as the B-Movie Western Hero, but in real life… well he’s the sort of hero that gives todays modest heroes a bad name. The most decorated soldier of World War II, this movie is the story of his autobiography, where he plays himself some 13 years older. Like THE JACKIE ROBINSON STORY from last month, this film uses the real life person reenacting the moments that made him a hero for the big screen. There’s something magic about that, something that makes you believe because you know that that’s Audie Murphy up there doing the things that Audie Murphy did against them dirty Nazis from Africa to Berlin! It’s not a great film, but a really good one.


Everybody knows William Stout’s classic poster image for Ralph Bakshi’s Vaughn Bode inspired WIZARDS. This parody of Lord of the Rings is great… I remember seeing this a good 10 times at the Drive-In as a kid, and along with FRITZ THE CAT, AMERICAN POP and FIRE & ICE it’s my fave Bakshi film. Getting this on DVD is really great and the final treat to a great month of DVDs.

Holy shit that’s a lot of movies! If I could only recommend 3 titles from this month, they would be the Walt Disney Treasures: ON THE FRONT LINES, LADY SNOWBLOOD and PRINCE VALIANT – the best comic strip film ever made! Ahem. As always, feel free to drop me a note reminding me to do this each month, as we enter the Summer Movie season, and work on GHOST TOWN and PRINCESS OF MARS continues – I’ll need all the encouragement I can get – as time gets shorter and shorter for me.


Readers Talkback
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  • May 2, 2004, 8:19 a.m. CST

    oops didnt know there was a part 2.

    by Jon E Cin

    Wizards is the bomb! I saw that with some girl and I got laid for the second time..seriously! Try it!

  • May 2, 2004, 8:25 a.m. CST

    umm..Ed Wood didnt direct "Orgy of the Dead"! He just wrote it

    by Jon E Cin

    And its crap..not fun crap..just really really bad crap. Dont buy it.

  • May 2, 2004, 8:46 a.m. CST

    Disney releases...

    by Falcon-1

    I gotta wonder if any of those Disney releases will have the restored scenes which, by today's politically correct standards, would be considered racist today. I say if Disney isn't going to give us a release of "Song of the South" because they don't think we can handle it, then we shouldn't buy anything from them. The last thing we need is Disney and Michael Eisner playing "thought police". Disney should be proud of it's past animation history; they ruled the day for almost five decades. For that matter, though, can anyone tell me why doesn't Cartoon Network doesn't ever show Warners Cartoons with Speedy Gonzales yet they have the cahones to show the crapfest called "Adult Swim"? Sorry, but to me, what they show on Adult Swim is more offensive than any sub-sonic Mexican mouse with a penchant for cheese and broken English. Better go, someone's about to pull the soapbox out from beneath me.

  • May 2, 2004, 8:47 a.m. CST

    good ole elvis

    by AlgertMopper

    good to hear Bruce will Elvis on the cpmmentary, sounds great, cant get here soon enough

  • May 2, 2004, 8:59 a.m. CST

    Im so fucken sick of Lord of the RINGS

    by Rcamacho2278

    Seriously, That movie was a piece of shit to begin with. with the endless drama and boring content. Lord of the ringers are just as bad as trekkies with no fucken sense of humor and a lack of realistic vision in their personal lives. they were too ignorant and blind to see the ride they were taken for 3 years. and oscars dont mean shit, when shit movies like Lost in Translation and Mystic river get nominated while gems like the HULK get snubbed, fuck it.

  • May 2, 2004, 9:18 a.m. CST

    Re: Enter the Dragon..that lame Obi-Wan ghost crap (Must read Ha

    by StoneMonkey

    That "lame Obi-Wan ghost crap" was always meant to be there, as well as the opening scene where Lee's character talks with the Abbot played by under-used Roy Chaio. 4 other scenes have been missing from this release for the last 31 years and I'm hoping they are reinstated. Scenes missing include: Lee's short fight with Bolo(Yang Tse), Lee's longer conversation with Mei Ling and Ohara, Lee's discovery of his own book upon entering his room, Lee's longer conversation with his baba(father). If these are restored/reinstated you can thank the Heavens that Warners and Robert Clouse finally got ETD right. If not, shame on Warner Brothers for duping us into buying a substandard DVD with a lot of pulp, but not much juice. The DVD also includes John Little's incredible documentary 'Bruce Lee:A Warrior's Journey' that buries Rob Cohen's 'Dragon' film in many respects(particularly the many false Bruce moments that were Hollywoodized) and also includes 34 minutes of footage found 4 years ago from Bruce's unfinished masterpiece 'The Game of Death' and assembled by Little based on Bruce's script and notes. Breathtaking stuff.

  • May 2, 2004, 9:47 a.m. CST

    Two good ones - Great Escape & The Good, The Bad...

    by SalvatoreGravano

    The rest is an epitomy of junk. Particularly Hackson's dull, infantile flick, and Coscarelli's uberdisappointing boredom fest, Bubba[Coscarelli has no clue of Egyptology]. Oh, and the best "in-character" commentary in the history of DVD is the "band commentary" on Spinal Tap SE. Bore Campbell certainly can't beat *that*.

  • May 2, 2004, 10:39 a.m. CST

    by proper

    Angel heart=yeah thats a dread film.Enter the dragon =yep thats on the list.bubba ho looks like a laugh still.buffy = great series but can watch that for free everyday so no point.good bad ugly =bad man film .thats on the list.Great escape= Xmas day film so no need to buy that(hate it when that crappy band plays the theme everytime England play).Return of the king =wait for xmas and get someone to buy it for you.Vaughn bode is kool that film is alright still. the rest of those choices are a bit self indulgent still but different strokes....but if you cant see samurai jack HK there are gaps in your training geeza get on the case

  • May 2, 2004, 10:48 a.m. CST

    Bubba Ho-Tep can't get here quick enough...

    by Dr_Zoidberg

    I live in the UK and I'm expecting my copy to ship on May 11th, so I should have it in less than two weeks. And to think, I've been waiting to see this film since I first read a REVIEW in February 2002. Bruce Campbell is an Uber-Man-God, so the film will definitely kick some major ass!

  • May 2, 2004, 10:50 a.m. CST


    by RenoNevada2000

    Actually, since Harry has intimated that this is a complete set of all the war propoganda films Disney did, i.e, there's probably a few that some would say are not very PC by today's standards, we SHOULD buy the set. We'll be showing Eisner and company that we're all big boys and girls and can view this material in its proper historic context without getting all offended. (Nice to see on the tin picture that Roy Disney's name is still on the packaging.) My only complaint is that Disney still flogs "Zip A Dee Do Dah" while never acknowledging where the song is from. I was at the movies last night and heard some new version of it off of a Disney album featuring their classic songs remade by teen pop band du jours. I think its a little disengenious for the company to seem to want to bury a film that its embarassed about but try to wring out every last cent it can from one of its songs.

  • Come and get it, you undead sack o'shit!

  • May 2, 2004, 12:41 p.m. CST

    Hell yeah Buffy season 6

    by Whedon

    Moriarty knows whats up since season 6 is in my opinion the greatest single season of tevevision ever produced. The complete destruction and then rebirth of its title character, extremely well done. Only dud in the 22 episodes was "Double Meat Palace" and even that one originated the idea of dumpster sex. I'll get it the first day, Harry I really think you should tackle Buffy season 2,3, and 5 before hitting six though as it makes 6 all the more powerful.

  • May 2, 2004, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Where's Invader Zim???

    by Craiggers

    Come on, Invader Zim is probably one of the greatest cartoons to come out of Nickelodean in years (with the exception of Spongebob of course). Jhonen Vasquez (I probably butchered his name) has created one of the most twisted shows I've seen since Ren and Stimpy; for the show to be released onto DVD finally deserves praise!

  • May 2, 2004, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Hey, I was talking to Tom Savini the other day too.....

    by don_gately

    .....and he says Harry tastes like asparagus!

  • May 2, 2004, 1:30 p.m. CST

    Robogeek recommends INVADER ZIM!!!


    Ride the piggy!

  • May 2, 2004, 2:57 p.m. CST

    Manhunter - Directors Cut

    by Fantomex

    I have no idea when this Manhunter DVD was released, but I saw it for the first time yesterday and picked it up. Genius.

  • May 2, 2004, 3:08 p.m. CST

    What's the holy heck's the holdup on Tim Burton's ED WOOD!

    by FrankDrebin

    It's been pulled twice from the release schedule. It should have been on the rental shelf right next to BIG FISH, so mainstream audiences could have discovered it at the same time. And Depps's at the peak of name-recognition right now. Bad planning!

  • May 2, 2004, 3:37 p.m. CST

    Orgy of the Dead isn't even a good bad movie.

    by Silver Shamrock

    One wretched excuse for a stripper after another doing long boring dance routines. You'll hit the fast forward button and curse the day Harry was born. It's not even a good bad movie with high camp value. Avoid at all costs unless you love burning money or get mailed free screeners every week like Harry does.

  • May 2, 2004, 4:12 p.m. CST

    WIZARDS is one of the worst animated films ever made

    by beamish13

    Bakshi stole Vaughn Bode's basic ideas and presented them on the screen completely devoid of wit. When Bakshi told The Onion that he was "the most ripped-off cartoonist in history", I felt like wringing him by his neck. The bastard

  • May 2, 2004, 4:13 p.m. CST

    INVADER ZIM is indeed brilliant

    by beamish13

    but "Spongebob" is crap. You have to be mentally challenged if you enjoy SPONGEBOB and are over the age of 5.

  • May 2, 2004, 5:16 p.m. CST

    what about Killer nerd!.....

    by Billuism

    Troma is releasing a double feature DVD featuring both Killer Nerd, and Bride of Killer Nerd on May 25. It's a retarded flick, but if you're into campy movies it's a great one. I know I loved Killer Nerd (and most people I show it too), and I've been dying to see the sequel, which I've heard was even better! I'll be picking up that DVD and Bubba Ho-tep both on the 25...... I'm waiting for the extended edition for ROTK!

  • May 2, 2004, 6 p.m. CST

    Criterion Art

    by Sharpel007

    All studios should be forced to have thier DVD covers sent to Criterion. All of them could make some damn nice one-sheets. Just look at the tin drum work. Warners 2 discers have come close. If Criterion did not exist the world would suck alot more.

  • I'm raising an inquisitive eyebrow in your direction, young man. As usual with your monthly dvd columns, it was worth the wait and the bank account will have to take another pounding this month (after I get my 1/18 scale Batmobile - Michael Keaton version of course. Keep 'em coming.

  • May 2, 2004, 7:53 p.m. CST

    i guarantee

    by manhattom

    that invader zim will outsell every DVD on that list, probably together. the first time i saw it, i knew it wasn't long for TV. there was no way nick would keep on a cartoon that was subversive on more levels than even south park, while retaining a TV-14 rating, or whatever.

  • May 2, 2004, 10:35 p.m. CST

    Isn't the Heat SE due out this month...?

    by Osmosis Jones

    And the reason for the Ed Wood delay is probably either someone bitching about the deleted scene with Bill Burray singing "Que Sera Sera", or the deleted scene with Martin Landau ranting about "Those bastards at Universal" for hoarding the Dracula rights. Expect to see both scenes missing whenever Disney finally releases this title for real.

  • May 2, 2004, 10:41 p.m. CST


    by horseloverfat723

    that bit about Angel Heart...Harry, JUST STOP IT. Everyone knows you're a virgin. Moving on---camacho, are you talking shit on trekkies? Better not be.

  • May 2, 2004, 11:12 p.m. CST


    by cornstalkwalker

    lots of good DVDs this month. Thanks for doing this column Harry. I always look forward to reading this.

  • May 3, 2004, 12:34 a.m. CST

    Great Column...

    by Snow Is Fun

    But wasn't Club Dread coming out this month? I could be mistaken, but if I'm not that's pretty messed up that it wasn't included. And, yeah, Invader Zim is great, but Spongebob is, too. The rest of the Nicktoons suck it hard, but Spongebob is pretty much the only children's cartoon that is truly funny. If you say otherwise you really haven't given it the chance it deserves, because while it does seem kinda crappy at first, it grows on you as you come to understand the complete and utter idiocy of Spongebob and Patrick. It really is a great show that truly deserves its current popularity.

  • May 3, 2004, 3:19 a.m. CST


    by Gristle

    The Criterion Collection will probably be regarded as the greatest influence on film fans of this generation. Like the directors of the Cinematheque Francaise in the '50's, the folks at Criterion (Janus Films) are hand-picking and beautifully presenting the films that this generation sees and appreciates as the best of the medium. I can't tell you how many titles I would never have heard of--let alone seen!-- if they weren't part of the Collection. From the complete works of filmmakers like Bergman and Kurosawa, to unknown masterpieces like the upcoming "The Leopard", the 200-plus Collection is a filmic version of the Harvard Classics five-foot shelf of books; all of cinematic history is in them, and it is close to containing every film you'll ever need to see (only some of the big ones are missing; those films the studios are wise enough to keep in release). (Although, the question of why in the hell they released "Armageddon" remains.) And someone else mentioned it already: they design the best film artwork around. I wish I owned the entire Collection just so that I could flip through the covers everyday, like walking through the coolest museum gallery in the world.

  • May 3, 2004, 9:56 a.m. CST

    Criterion owns.

    by illegit

    I just wish I didn't already have all the individual chapters of the Samurai Trilogy so I could get the collection. As for the rest, Stray Dog Criterion and Bubba Ho-tep have been at the top of my most-anticipated releases for a while. Can't wait to pick those up.

  • May 3, 2004, 11:52 a.m. CST

    Wizards? What about Wwwyzzerdd? Or

    by Baron Karza

  • May 3, 2004, 2:50 p.m. CST

    Well said "Snow is Fun"

    by Craiggers

    I can understand how someone can take one glance at Spongebob and call it stupid; hell, I did that. With Nick's current line up of cartoons, who could blame me? These are the people that used to have such gems as Ren and Stimpy, Rocko's Modern Life, and Doug (not a funny show, but a good one) and replaced them with Rocket Power (barf), Cat/Dog (blargh), and The Wild Thornberry's (BLAAARGH!). WHen I sat down and watched Spongebob with my sister, I realized that the show has a lot more going for it than people realize. Yes, it can be stupid but at the same time it can be clever, subversive, and just damn funny. It doesn't hold a candle to Invader Zim! But it isn't for "mentally handicapped" people and PURELY for children at the age of 5. But enough about Spongebob; May llth can't get here soon enough: INVADER ZIM WILL BE MINE! AH HA HA HA!

  • May 3, 2004, 4:51 p.m. CST

    I love me some Criterion....

    by Manaqua

    ..but damn they pricey. I know, I know, you want the quality you gotta pay for it, but 25-30 bucks a pop is steep. Makes a brotha wanna download decryptor and get a spindle of ritek. Tee hee hee. Not that I would mind you. here I come. They list Lady snowblood for 9 bucks cheaper than Amazon! WTF? Hello no brainer.

  • May 4, 2004, 2:10 a.m. CST

    Good job

    by Darth Thoth

    Once again you come through Harry. Great writeup and thanks for the suggestions. One.

  • May 4, 2004, 3:34 a.m. CST

    Invader Zim rocked my face.

    by full_time_killer

    There is an awesome interview with Jhonen Vasquez over on where he talks about the nightmare of working for nickelodeon - freaking hilarious. Is the DVD a nick authotised edition? Or will it have cut scenes of Zim raping animals and stuff?

  • May 4, 2004, 12:29 p.m. CST

    And I

    by morGoth

  • May 4, 2004, 8:54 p.m. CST

    The Tin Drum is one fucked-up film.

    by chrth

    And that's all I have to say about that.

  • May 5, 2004, 6:51 a.m. CST


    by DocPazuzu

    I'm also a fan of Fire + Ice -- for the same reasons, I might add. The DVD is available in R2 (widescreen, dolby digital 2.0). I have the Scandinavian edition (Atlantic Film AB) which I purchased for the insanely low price of 69 Swedish kronor (approx 9 bucks). It's also available through, but the price is a steep 25 pounds.

  • May 5, 2004, 8:27 a.m. CST

    Reasons to avoid the new cut of the Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    by Superpaddy

    I don't agree with Harrys's view of the new extended edition of the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. Apparently the US/European version, which we all know, was put together by the U.S. studios prior to its first US release, and was never Leone's intended version. However, in an unusual reverse of typical Weinstein 'let's fuck with the Director's vision' syndrome, I think the studion hacks in this case actually did Leone a favour by trimming down his cut. Apart from one scene in the new cut, where Angel Eyes is clearly upset by the sight of a room full of wounded and dying soldiers, the new rest of the new scenes are superfluous - they add virtually nothing and just drag out and damage the movie's tempo. Also, the original English dialogue was lost and so new recordings were made by Eastwood and Eli Wallach for this version. Trouble is, the guys are now 40 years older, and they sound it. Further, the lighting in the new scenes is very different (presumably from the film stock being stuck in a damp cellar for 4 decades). The end result is that now and then you are rudely jolted out of the movie when the whole picture suddenly goes several shades darker and Eastwood and Wallach start sounding like Granpa Simpson. As proof of this, I took my girlfriend to see this new version in the cinema - she had never seen the movie before, yet afterwards she could name nearly every scene that has been added. This version is a real disappointment, is totally inferior in terms of pacing, and technically the inclusion of the new scenes is unforgivably shoddy - avoid it and stick with your cleaned up widescreen version of a few years back.

  • May 5, 2004, 9:28 a.m. CST

    I also am not man enough for Anduril...

    by Didyma2

    That's because I am a woman. I have Sting on my living room wall, and whenever I look at it I am happy inside, and I smile. My husband is happy that I wanted Sting instead of diamonds. heh

  • May 5, 2004, 9:29 a.m. CST

    I also am not man enough for Anduril...

    by Didyma2

    That's because I am a woman. I have Sting on my living room wall, and whenever I look at it I am happy inside, and I smile. My husband is happy that I wanted Sting instead of diamonds. heh

  • Ok, its an Italian movie, I get it. I'm wondering, were they speaking Italian on the set or English? cuz I'm damn skippy it looks like Eastwood is speaking English. And if he was speaking English on set, then why Redub it in the first place?! And why did Harry recomend to watch it in Italian with English subtitles when the actors are speaking English words?!!! ARGGGHHHH!!! Ok, awesome flick but that dubbing thing has been melting my brain for years. Someone take pitty on me.

  • May 5, 2004, 7:10 p.m. CST

    Dubbing Explained

    by fenario80

    The stars are all speaking English, and may or may not be post-dubbed. The (Italian) supporting cast is all speaking Italian, later dubbed into English. Jackie Chan uses the same old technique for less-proficient English speakers in his (awful) English-language movies like "Who Am I?" and "The Medallion".

  • May 5, 2004, 10:46 p.m. CST

    Angelheart is great and creepy, but why...

    by DarthCorleone

    ..did they have to hint at the twist on the front cover?

  • May 5, 2004, 10:48 p.m. CST

    Tin Drum Haunts Me

    by flossygomez

    Finally this absurd satiric polemic angle on the Nazi age has arrived. It's also a wonderful coming of age film (he said toungue planted in cheek). I will forever be haunted by the vision of an eel in a dead horse head...I definitely look at sugar packets in a different light. Gotta go, I swallowed my Nazi pin...eeeeeerp! This would be a good double bill with Caberet.

  • May 5, 2004, 11:19 p.m. CST

    Angel Heart rules (great soundtrack album too btw)


    I'm stolked they're coming out a special edition, but wish they had done so the first fucking place...I HATE buying shit a second time. That's Artisin for you though, 'Dune-Special Edition' just a few months after you've alredy bought the first. THREE versions of Terminator-2...shit

  • May 5, 2004, 11:25 p.m. CST

    Speaking of Alan 'Bugsy Malone' on DVD?


    Scott-Chachy in charge, and Jody Foster together in one freaky flick. Also a great soundtrack if you can find it

  • May 6, 2004, 12:33 a.m. CST

    Alan Parker is one hell of a director

    by beamish13

    probably neck and neck with Alex Cox for best living British filmmaker. "Pink Floyd: The Wall", "Commitments", "Bugsy Malone", "Birdy", "Life of David Gale"...

  • May 6, 2004, 6:59 p.m. CST


    by SIR-SLEDGE450

    Boycott these,along with any disney goods until eisner caves in and releases farneheight 911.Do it for your countrys right of freedom of speech. On the other hand,bubba ho tep,when u coming to the uk!?I dont even wana c it at the pics now,i wana here capbells elvis yack track.Sounds GROOOOVY!

  • May 7, 2004, 4:56 p.m. CST

    angel heart

    by drjones

    angel heart is really an intense amazing film...with great performances and many wonderful absurd aspects. i

  • May 7, 2004, 11:57 p.m. CST

    Wizards and Swashbuckler

    by Jaka

    WIZARDS!!!! YAY!! Swashbuckler - a Robert "Quint" Shaw movie from 1976 that I caught on cable this morning. Anybody seen this thing. Had a pretty big "name" cast (including a non-speaking part for Angelica Huston...)and was entertaining - but only a so-so film overall. I like pirate movies though - and James Earl "Thulsa Doom" Jones is always cool. Anyway - - anybody know more about this film?

  • May 8, 2004, 11:36 a.m. CST

    Jaka, re Swashbuckler

    by Miami Mofo

    Also starred Peter Boyle, Beau Bridges and Genvieve Bujold, whose skinnydipping scene is one of the only things I remember from a fairly forgettable movie. ***That's telling him, morGy! Good grief, Harry didn't even post the Return of The King cover art, and this guy's complaining about too much LotR coverage.

  • May 8, 2004, 7:13 p.m. CST

    Alan Parker's former glories

    by dr. robert

    Angel Heart is a terrific film. Now if MGM would hurry up and release Year Of The Dragon on DVD, my little Mickey Rourke (before the shitty plastic surgery) collection will be complete. Will Alan Parker ever direct a good film again? The Life Of David Gale was dreadful. Remember Fame, Birdy, Midnight Express? Parker was once quite promising (as was Ridley Scott).

  • May 9, 2004, 6:44 p.m. CST

    Victor Lazlo was French?

    by Bart of Darkness

    All these years I thought he was a Czechoslavak resistance leader. Maybe Harry was too "giddy with excitement" to think straight when he wrote this.

  • May 10, 2004, 10:44 p.m. CST


    by el zar

    It's truly a Samurai masterpiece

  • May 11, 2004, 4:58 a.m. CST

    Angel Heart -- CHECK OUT THE FANS!! (Spoiler??)

    by Mircalla

    Even if you have seen Angel Heart 100 times, check out the fans in the backgrounds. When they are spinning one way, he is "Harry Angel" and the other way he's "Johnny Favorite." One of the BEST movies of the past 20 years IMHO :^)

  • May 11, 2004, 5:06 a.m. CST

    Whedon! Buffy Season 4 is also really cool!

    by Mircalla

    Except for Riley of course lol

  • May 11, 2004, 10:37 a.m. CST

    Mircalla is wrong...

    by Blok Narpin

    ...Riley was cool. Angel was Bruce Wayne. Riley was Clark Kent. It was a very cool contrast.

  • May 11, 2004, 1:21 p.m. CST

    Harry is right....

    by Rapmaster C

    ....Pluto is a god!

  • May 11, 2004, 3:14 p.m. CST

    bubba-not in my collection-tep

    by TheKingInYellow

    ok movie, awesome concept, decent execution, perfect actors/acting, occassional outburst of laughter from me. not worth purchasing. so, trick someone into either buying it or renting it for you.

  • May 12, 2004, 8:52 p.m. CST

    Jesus, never even heard of Angel Heart. But I agree with ya, Har

    by IAmJacksUserID

    And I look forward to the Good Bad Ugly redux. But my old DVD copy (my first DVD ever, some 205 titles ago) won't lose it's place any time. BLONDIE, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE....JUST A DIRTY SON OF A AAAWWWWAAAA AWWWA AAWWWWWW...

  • May 18, 2004, 9:55 p.m. CST

    I have ROTK already!

    by elanor

    Hee hee, Harry! I've already got my DVD of ROTK! The joys of being a New Yorker, of course. And, thanks to your rec and one from a certain Blue Wizard, I'm gonna get me a Bubba HoTep, too.

  • May 18, 2004, 9:56 p.m. CST

    I have ROTK already!

    by elanor

    Hee hee, Harry! I've already got my DVD of ROTK! The joys of being a New Yorker, of course. And, thanks to your rec and one from a certain Blue Wizard, I'm gonna get me a Bubba HoTep, too.

  • May 19, 2004, 7:25 p.m. CST

    ROTK Worst Movie of Last Year

    by CarleyTauchert

    ok I might be pushing it there, I did watch T3 the other day and that was so bad I'm still getting over it! Why why why did they ruin the beauty and great storytelling of FOTR and lump on TTT and ROTK which added nothing to the story, I'd rather there was a half hour added to FOTR that finished the story then have to sit through nearly six hours of extended CGI drivil. Ok that's my rant over but if I were to recommend a good movie to buy this month go for Girl with the Pearl Earring! Not a CGI in site!

  • May 21, 2004, 12:25 a.m. CST

    Carleytauchert worst headline of this tb

    by elanor

    I mean, really, your post made no sense. Not that I mind that you don't like ROTK or T2T. That's your right and your loss. I love all three. I find them to be beautiful and brilliant adaptations of a superb story by inventive and compassionate filmmakers. Now here are two posers for you, CarleyT: Can you tell me which effects in any of those three films were CGI, which were miniatures and which were matte paintings? And second, can you explain to me how a filmmaker might put Tolkien's particular myth on film without using CGI? Hmmmm?

  • May 27, 2004, 7:47 p.m. CST

    I lay claim to this TB, in the name of the Tailenders!

    by raw_bean

    Ahem, anyway, I just watched ROTK on DVD, and enjoyed the credit sequence with the hand-drawn artwork. It has to be said though, how come Sean Bean gets a nice mention and a picture of Boromir but Christopher Lee gets snubbed? It's not enough that the guy didn't make the theatrical cut, apparently. But I'll shut up on that particular subject; I don't want to come across anything like the idiot I saw once who was having such a huff about C Lee being cut, he ended up jabbering such condescending rubbish as 'the guys so old, he might well die before the Extended Edition comes out, and never get to see his performance in it!'

  • May 27, 2004, 10:51 p.m. CST

    I'm with ya, bean!

    by elanor

    Let's get to e-mailin' and drag the rest of them over here, eh?

  • May 27, 2004, 11:37 p.m. CST

    And yet, NOONE'S here.

    by mortsleam

    'Sup wit 'dat?

  • May 27, 2004, 11:55 p.m. CST

    Are we here yet?

    by BG

  • May 28, 2004, 12:17 a.m. CST

    Talk about Hosearama!

    by BG

    I've seen cars being washed that weren't as hosed as this TB... BaDum-Cha! Thank you, you've been a great audience. Now Beany, how's Club AB coming. I just went over for a look but it's just your message showing. If you're going to be webmaster, does that make you the CAB driver?... BaDum-Cha! A man walks into a bar...

  • May 28, 2004, 1:57 a.m. CST

    I'm here, too

    by Sabster

    Have to go to work now, see you later.

  • May 28, 2004, 2:44 a.m. CST

    The Mind Boggles

    by daughter of time

    Carley, I'm curious what you thought LOTR was about, that you think the story could have been finished with another half hour beyond FOTR. (And are we talking post-extended edition, or theatrical?) Please, let us know what that half hour would have contained. Even if you leave out the Rohirrim, surely the story of Boromir's people would need some closure (he died, after all, talking about the White City, in the arms of his now-admitted King). And Frodo and Sam would just have taken up five minutes of that time getting to Mordor, and heaving the Ring in, without opposition? And Aragorn would have... what? Because we'd already heard he was the heir to the throne; you can't just leave him dangling. Anyway, you are talking to the wrong people; most of us think even the extended editions are an hour too short. And it's funny how rapidly CGI went from something that had suddenly enabled films to tell stories we could previously barely imagine to... being a dirty word, implying LACK of creativity. That, of course, is ridiculous. The question isn't whether computers are used; the question is whether they are used in service to the filmmaker's imagination and not as a replacement for it, and also whether, if they substitute for reality, they do so convincingly.

  • May 28, 2004, 3:44 a.m. CST

    OK, I'm here, too.

    by Elaine

    With another hose test.

  • May 28, 2004, 4:01 a.m. CST

    For Bean (and others), on the Week 11 voting categories

    by Mistress Elaine

    You need more clarification on the final two categories, Bean? OK, here goes. MOST BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF MUSIC: Yep, that's independent of the film, and it doesn't have to be an entire track either, although it can be. If you particularly love, say, the Caradhras theme (which isn't an album track in its own right), you can vote for that; if you wish to vote for a whole track, that's fine by me, too. Whatever, as long as I know exactly to what piece of music you are referring. **** MOST STUNNING SYNTHESIS OF SOUND AND VISION: I fully expect the Lighting of the Beacons to sweep this category, and rightly so, but all the same I'd be interested to see what else you come up with. I, for one, really love the scene in which Gandalf and Pippin enter Minas Tirith and ride all the way to the top of the city, which both looks and sounds utterly breath-taking. I also love the Arwen chase in "The Fellowship of the Ring" (a thrilling marriage of sound and vision), and I know Kathadriel finds the Ents' destruction of Isengard very impressive. I'm curious to hear what you find impressive, other than the admittedly stunning Beacons, so please indulge me and vote for two other scenes besides the Beacons. Pretty please? **** By the way, Bean, I hate you for stealing my First on our previous talkback, thus preventing me from scoring a Frast. What utterly shocking, ungentlemanlike behaviour on your part. :-) **** Oh, and just for the record: Tailenders, you'll find the full Week 11 voting categories (there are four of them this week) over at 17412. Then again, if you found your way here, you probably found my voting post amidst the terrible hosery, as well. :-)

  • There's an interesting point; 'paragon' and 'Aragorn'. I find it hard to believe that's purely coincidental. -------- Very well Elaine, I'll do some listening and watching this weekend, pick a track and some scenes. Does the eerie wailing and odd drumming during Smeagol's chilling murder of Deagol count as 'music' married to imagery, d'you think? I watched ROTK last night, and that bit makes me shudder every time. It's really more sound effects than music though, I suppose.

  • You wouldn't hurt your Beaney, would you Mistress? :^)

  • May 28, 2004, 5:50 a.m. CST

    You're too kind, Bean

    by Elaine

    What a gentlemanlike gesture! Truly, your generosity warms my heart. However, if you don't mind too much, I'll grab this First myself. To dedicate it to yourself, because you're soon going to give us unhosed talkbacks, and to your lovely Rune, because she seems as keen on getting our Boston moot off the ground as I am. Here's to you, my dears. **** Now, to restore what's left of my credibility, authority and what have you, I'm telling you that NO, the drums in the Smeagol/Deagol scene don't count as music, for all that they are indeed eerie as hell. I wish I could in all honesty say I'd love to let you vote for them, but you know, we stern taskmistresses of the world have to draw the line somewhere. And this is where I draw it!

  • May 28, 2004, 9:03 a.m. CST

    raw_bean, re the credits

    by Miami Mofo

    I believe the reason that Sean Bean was included in the final credits was because he *did appear* in RotK-TE, albeit in Pippin's flashback to Boromir's death. On the other hand, there isn't a single frame of RotK-TE in which Chris Lee or Brad Dourif appear. We'll just have to wait for the EE to see their names again (not to mention Bruce Spence's name for the frist time). ***Excellent questions, Elaine. In case I haven't done so in the past, I would like to thank you for running the Elanor's(tm). You have made the wait for the DVD much more enjoyable. Hope you can keep it going for six more months! :~) Meanwhile, I shall give this week's questions careful consideration before answering. [P.S.: You couldn't have ridden your bike through a hurricane -- the 2004 Hurricane season doesn't begin until Tuesday! The Miami Herald has already printed it's special 'Hurricane Watch - 2004' section, and more importantly, I have paid my flood insurance premium! This years names are - Alex, Bonnie, Charley, Danielle, Earl, Fabian, Frances, Gaston, Hermine, Ivan, Jeanne, Karl, Lisa, Matthew, Nicole, Otto, Paula, Richard, Shary, Tomas, Virginie and Walter. Can you imagine getting hit by Hurricane Gaston? How embarassing.] ***I must say that it's nice to be back at 17457, a place I have not posted at since May 8th. But I think that Sooty Britches was the frist tailender to post here. He beat me by four stinkin' days.

  • May 28, 2004, 9:34 a.m. CST

    Aha! So we're unhosed, eh?

    by Elaine

    I guess that means I still have a shot at Frast on this talkback, even though I was by no means the first to post here. It's the position at the head of the talkback that counts, and Bean was kind enough to leave it to me. Cheers, Beansy. :-) **** Hurricane Gaston? Hmmm. Sounds rather like the stuff I'm going to throw at you in my next post. But just for the record, Miami, my cycling adventure took place quite a while ago. If I remember correctly, it was my eighteenth birthday we were celebrating that day, and what a way to celebrate it it was! And nope, the storm might not have had a name (we don't name our storms here), but yes, it was a full-blown hurricane

  • May 28, 2004, 9:38 a.m. CST

    Subtitles for Moaters and other language enthusiasts

    by Elaine

    Yes, the subtitle girl has checked in again, this time with linguistic goodies from France. You

  • May 28, 2004, 4:43 p.m. CST

    Alright alright pipe down BEANSY ELLIE...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ... erm elanor that is. I woulda showit up sooner but it ben a hectic day in connexions land. It wer my idea after all. Had a little rumpa with a slmss virus variant on the LAN so I ben busier nor a 1 leggit bloak in a arse kicking contest and I still ben scannit for that varmit even as I writeit this here post. Makes me go all humpy when sumfing like this happens. Brrrr! I knowit this TB wud be hosed but I had no idear it wud be this bad. At leas its short. Tho I pul datter that sayit it wont be for long with this long windit crowd posting away. I bes get to programming on this weeks elanors and pirntout my voats be fore Mistress lady Sauraine decidit to uppit lash agenst the stragglers. Namarie Trubba Not. SM{;-0

  • May 28, 2004, 5:56 p.m. CST

    My voats, erm, votes...

    by Sabster

    The first category is easy: Into the West, my absolute favourite of the three, and maybe of the whole soundtrack. ** The second is more difficult: I love the way Gandalf hums the Road Goes Ever On at the beginning of the Fellowship, it sounds so natural and, as someone else has said already, it sets the tone for the whole Hobbiton scene. But then Eowyn

  • May 28, 2004, 6:13 p.m. CST

    Hosed AGAIN!?!?!?!?!?!?

    by Sabster

    So eine bescheuerte

  • May 28, 2004, 6:14 p.m. CST

    Hosed AGAIN!?!?!?!?!?!?

    by Sabster

    So eine

  • May 28, 2004, 6:16 p.m. CST

    Hosed AGAIN?!?!?!?!?

    by Sabster

    So eine

  • May 28, 2004, 6:56 p.m. CST


    by Skyway Moaters

    (1) Connaissez-vous le chemin de Mordor? =

  • May 28, 2004, 6:59 p.m. CST


    by Skyway Moaters


  • May 28, 2004, 7:06 p.m. CST

    "I choose a mortal life." is the obvious answer to the Arwen que

    by Miami Mofo

    Howard Shore on the other hand, ain't so easy, cause how can you choose between things that are perfect? The more I watch the DVD's and listen to the soundtracks, the more in awe I am at how brilliant the whole thing is. It is remarkable how everything ties together. I remember how floored I was when I frist heard the Gondor theme in RotK and was immediately taken back by the soundtrack to Lothlorien when Boromir asked Aragorn, "Have you ever seen the White Tower of Ecthelion?" Two movies ago there it was, the frist hint of Gondor and Minas Tirith. I am still amazed how everyone's "soundtrack theme" fits them so perfectly. Anyway, here are my poor attempts in accessing genius: I) I would have prefered to answer 'In Dreams' to this question, but that doesn't seem to be one of my choices. [Btw Elaine, when I frist read the question rapidly, I thought you were going to ask about the "soundtrack theme" for each character, not the ending credits songs.] Therefore I'll go with Annie and 'Into The West". II) This was the easiest and most obvious querstion of all. The answer, of couse, is when Frodo sings my version of 'The Bath Song' at Rivendell, and anyone who doesn't agree with me is a no good pinko Commie bastard! Afterall, both Liv and Elijah are naked during it, aren't they? Oh wait, I just remembered that I'm the only who has that version as PJ (BG) filmed it especially for meeeeeeeee! Oh well, your loss. I suppose therefore that the Bath Song is not eligable, so I guess I gotta go with Gandalf singing 'The Road Goes Ever On' as he rides through The Shire. It really is perfect. OK, now the tough ones. [Thanks for the three choices, E.]: III) Beautiful Music: 1. 'Breaking of The Fellowship', especially since the soundtrack version contains Edward Ross' 'In Dreams'. 2) A TIE!! 'Arwen's Vision' from RotK and 'Arwen's Fate' from TTT. On the one hand you've got Renee Fleming (RotK), and on the other hand, Isabel Bayrakdarian (TTT). Please don't ask me to choose. 3) Frodo's tear: From Frodo's "Noooo" at Gandalf's fall to his tear outside Moria; once again, Edward Ross shines. Honorable Mention: at the end of chapter 6 in RotK, The Palantir, I love the music as Merry climbs up the stairs to the platform, chased by Aragorn, so he can watch Pippin ride off with Gandalf on Shadowfax. IV) Most Astonishing Combo: 1) Gotta go with the obvious 'Lighting of The Beacons'. 2) Foundations Of Stone: The way in which TTT opens is just superb -- from the flyover of The Misty Mountains, to being taken inside them where Gandalf is battling the Balrog on the Bridge, to their plunge and fight throughout same, culminating with that incredible wide shot as they fall through the roof of the cavern towards the lake below; that scene blows me away every time I see it. 3) Rowing through The Argonath. What an awesome sight! Honorable mention to Gandalf and Pippin riding into and up the many levels of Minas Tirith.

  • May 28, 2004, 7:38 p.m. CST

    And you pipe down too Mortay! (How could I overlook a 1.5 ton ma

    by Skyway Moaters

    We wonderss where THISsss will end upppp. Aye, we wondersssss...

  • May 28, 2004, 8:10 p.m. CST

    You're welcome, Elaine.

    by raw_bean

    But you should know, Rune's no longer mine, lovely though she is. Friends and no more are we now, and I count myself very lucky for even that. ----- Don't worry about runnig out of Elanor categoories; the original idea was to use the standard Oscar categories (actor, cinematography, direction, etc) on LOTR only, and we haven't even touched on any of those categories yet! --------- Lastly, with luck I'll be making a god start on some ClubAngband progress this weekend. Try it out on Monday, and see what's what. :^)

  • May 28, 2004, 8:14 p.m. CST

    Spelling terrible, and HOESD too!!!

    by raw_bean

    'running' and 'good'. Goodnight all, need to sleep off a rather copious amount of alcohol. :^)

  • May 28, 2004, 8:22 p.m. CST

    I'd like to pretend that 'HOESND' was me being ironic,

    by raw_bean

    but actually it was just me being drunk.

  • May 28, 2004, 11:37 p.m. CST

    So here

    by Runelord

    Cozy. **** I think that was everybody. If somebody wanted in on the VaMoot and/or Boston but didn

  • May 30, 2004, 10:21 p.m. CST

    HOST FEST, uh I mean: HOSE TEST. If my calculations are correct.

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...this should end up at the bottom. Let's make the Boston Moot HAPPEN eh what? Still working on me music voats Elaine. Have a good one all you mad beautiful Tolkienoids; this post was just a short: HOSE TEST...

  • May 30, 2004, 10:47 p.m. CST

    Ian Holm in "Day After Tomorrow"

    by daughter of time

    Has anyone else seen this yet? It turned out to be more entertaining than I was expecting, despite much silliness of motivation and implausibility of physics (humans outrunning storm surges, micro bursts and wolves). The only truly moving moments were provided by Ian Holm, who alone of all the characters (aside from his two co-workers) seems to be truly facing his mortality, and with grace and dignity. I loved his scenes.

  • May 31, 2004, 1:44 p.m. CST

    Return Of the King -DVD -aka Return of the Emperor's new clothes

    by Foghorn-Leghorn

    Finally got to see Return Of The King on rental. Never got round to see it in the theatres 'cause of excessive hype and Oscars - "Awards are the badges of mediocrity", they say, and in the case of the Oscars, this has held true over the last twenty years - with perhaps one exception: Unforgiven. Also - although I liked FOTR a lot, I felt like Jackson had run out of ideas with TTT. It was all just too close to Xena Warrior in terms of quality. And Jackson's ZULU-inspired seige at Helm's Deep just completely missed why the original made such great cinema. The mindless marching orcs are just no substitute for the ingenious and daring Zulu warriors. Anyways, so I sit down to watch ROTK and I couldn't believe my eyes: it's not all terrible but, Jesus, it contains some of the worst scenes since the Phantom Menace. And it just seems like Jackson has piled clich

  • May 31, 2004, 3:57 p.m. CST

    Well Moaters, you seem to be right about the hosing.

    by raw_bean

    Hi there d_o_t, how're you doing these days? I'm thinking of going to see the Day After Tomorrow sometime, you're not the first person who's told me it's not all that bad. -------- Anyway, both of you should get yourselves to and get signed up. And spread the word to as many Tailenders as possible, they all seem just about ready to give up after another horrendous hosing like this one has been. Not long now, and we can post on a ClubAngband talkback, with no hosing, trolls, or bemusing viewpoints like that of Mr. Leghorn, here.

  • May 31, 2004, 6:13 p.m. CST

    You have 'fallen' into a "Tailend Talk Back" Foghorn old chap...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ... kind of like the Twilight Zone for LOTR haters(?) I'm afraid you aren't going to attract many sympathetic ears on this board, and if all parties remain civilised, we, and I think I can speak for the others assembled here on this point, Shall have to agree to disagree. I could go down the line and refute your reasons for disliking T2T and ROTK one by one, but what would be the point? We think the films are great, not perfect, but great nonetheless.

  • May 31, 2004, 6:17 p.m. CST

    AW FRAK! Hosed again. Must be some serious ...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ... hate speech, or at least some "Harry or Father Geek no likee" speech going down on other TBs. *SIGH* Come on Club Angband! This really gets annoying sometimes.

  • May 31, 2004, 6:20 p.m. CST

    I give up.

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...round and round the order goes, where this will land, only Eru knows...

  • May 31, 2004, 8:34 p.m. CST

    Question to Foghorn

    by daughter of time

    I can't tell from your post if you are complaining about Jackson's interpretation of Tolkien, or you aren't familiar with Tolkien and are blaming him for the plot. Can you clarify? I can see the parallels with "Zulu" only if you strain quite a bit. Rourke's Drift, after all, was set at a barely-fortified outpost, just for starters, and the odds were even worse. You might as well compare Helm's Deep to Fort Zinderneuf. I think that chanting and stomping are a fairly common pre-battle technique, and not trade-marked by anyone's army.

  • May 31, 2004, 8:55 p.m. CST

    raw_bean, Please explain the Password

    by Miami Mofo

    I started to type out a password but didn't see the astericks like I'm used to seeing. Is there a limit on how many charcters I can use? And should this password be kept secret AND safe? ***Hope everyone had a fine Memorial Day weekend. After a wonderful May weatherwise, all of a sudden it got really hot here. Summer's here, and so is Hurricane season!

  • May 31, 2004, 10:18 p.m. CST

    Dat Foghorn-Leghorn ain't nuthin' but a loud mouthed schnook!

    by Snaga-ape

    But then, what do snaga know?

  • June 1, 2004, 1:09 a.m. CST

    Questions, Questions

    by daughter of time

    I had similar questions myself, Bean. Can I use spaces in my user ID and keep it the same as here, or do I need to run it together? Does the password have to be a certain number of characters? ***Just finished watching FOTR in two parts, last night and this, and it had been long enough that I once more sobbed through the ending (starting with Boromir's death). Then started TTT.... (the extended editions, of course). I suppose it's heresy, but right now, I'm not planning to buy ROTK until the extended version, though I will rent it in a few days to finish the cycle... for now. Does anyone know how sales are going? Almost everyone I know has decided to dig their heels in and wait for the "complete" version this time, though that doesn't mean we're the majority. I wonder how many have waited to see ANY of it until all three are out (at least in theatrical versions)? ***Oh, and Leghorn, that bit about not wanting to see a film because of the "hype".... How would you ever know if the hype wasn't right, and you were depriving yourself of a great experience? Surely between trailers and legitimate reviews, it's possible to get a general idea whether you'd like something, without merely being a contrarian.

  • June 1, 2004, 4:15 a.m. CST

    OK, here we go.

    by raw_bean

    Both your username and password on ClubAngband can be a string of up to 30 characters of any sort (including spaces). I thought it a good idea to let you see the password you're choosing, so you can be sure it's spelled correctly (you won't be able to change your details for a while yet, or get password reminders, other than having me access the database for you directly). When you use it to log in or post a message, your password will be safely hidden with *s.

  • It's not heresy to not buy the ROTK theatrical edition, d_o_t, I only bought it for my sister's birthday present (although I'll not claim I haven't watched the film and all the extras in advance of her birthday. The disc needed testing! :^) Which is actually true, the first copy I bought wouldn't play!), I didn't plan on owning the theatrical versions after hearing of the EEs, and only own the FOTR: TE because I could get it for

  • June 1, 2004, 6:34 a.m. CST

    Daughter Of Time, an answer to your questions...

    by Foghorn-Leghorn

    I don't really understand what you mean. I know that these movies are based on Tolkien's books. In fact I read The Lord Of The Rings when I was a kid - it was my favorite book up to the age of thirteen or so. Like quite a few people I've talked to, I found these movie versions of LOTR to be pretty standard Hollywood stuff - it's pretty much Attack Of The Clones by a different name. I think they could have made a much better job of this material. As to the "hype": I'm talking about the media bombardment that always accompanies these "event" movies - the TV spots, the billboards, magazine ads, videogames, Happy Meals etc etc etc - all of which scream "Mediocre Hollywood cash-in!!!". That's what I mean by "hype". And to crown it all, they awarded "Oscars" to Return Of The King, which confirms it as a bland and unambitious commercial enterprise. When was the last time an Oscar-winner was actually a movie of any quality? Off the top of my head, the only one that qualifies in the last twenty years is Unforgiven - though you might make a case for Amadeus. Good movies almost never win Oscars. Of course, movies like Lord Of The Rings are perfect when you just want to switch your brain off and settle down for an evening of forgettable entertainment. And that's why I rented out ROTK this week-end. But the unintentionally hilarious moments (especially the last half-hour or so!) just kept pulling me out of the movie and/or making me squirm with embarrassment.

  • June 1, 2004, 7:09 a.m. CST

    Good to see you're making progress on Club Angband, Bean

    by Elaine

    The anticipation is killing me! **** Miami: You

  • June 1, 2004, 7:10 a.m. CST

    And a few Elanor votes for your perusal

    by Elaine

    Best Theme Song:

  • June 1, 2004, 8:20 a.m. CST

    ZULU: Rorke's Drift Vs Helm's Deep

    by Foghorn-Leghorn

    I'm afraid you're wrong there, Daughter Of Time. I've seen at least two televised interviews with Peter Jackson where he stated that ZULU was his reference for the battle at Helm's Deep. I'm pretty sure you can check this up on one of the extras disks for The Two Towers. I'm sorry, but I heard it straight from the director's mouth - and I remember thinking, "oh, so that's what you were trying to do!". But really, his homage to ZULU falls flat. What made ZULU such a brilliant piece of cinema was not the actual fighting scenes - which like in Helm's Deep, are unconvinving and a bit boring. No, what makes ZULU so exciting is the build-up, the tension and the anticipation. There are many aspects of this in ZULU: the ebb and flow of the assault, the subtle tension and conflict between the two main officers, the dissent in the ranks, the doomsaying of the preacher, and most importantly of all, the realisation that they are being stalked by a cunning and courageous enemy who know what they are doing - and are prepared to take their time about it. Beating their shields - one of the bits that Peter Jackson copied - is only a part of this. It's also that the defenders can hear their enemies but not see them; that the Zulus are highly organised and have an effective strategy - they continally test the defences for their strengths and weaknesses. Compare this to the mindless thugs who march on Helm's Deep (I remember that Tolkien did a much better job of dramatising this scene.) Oh yes, I remember that Jackson tries to get some conflict going between the various characters at Helm's Deep - but it feels contrived and silly. I just kept thinking, " just get ON with it, will you?"

  • June 1, 2004, 9 a.m. CST

    Speaking of LOTR music....

    by raw_bean

    I frequently walk past the University of Huddersfield Music School on my way to & from the Computing and Engineering School where I work, and hear various snatches of scales and rehearsals and things as I do. I've always wondered if I'll ever hear a bit of Howard Shore's LOTR score one day. Well, today as I went past to go gewt my lunch, I thought I caught a snatch of the LOTR theme/history of the Ring theme/ancient ruins (ie, Argonath) theme, so I stopped to listen for a minute. Lo and behold, a full-blown (and not too bad) rendition of 'The Prophecy' from the beginning of FOTR! I went and had my lunch, then on the way back I heard the rousing final rendition of the Fellowship theme and fanfare from the very end of the film(They must have skipped a bit; I wasn't THAT long having my lunch!)

  • June 1, 2004, 9:10 a.m. CST


    by raw_bean

    The chanting and beating of shields at the Battle of the Hornburg was added because PJ saw how scary and effective the Maori Uruk-Hai extras looked when they performed the traditional 'Haka' war chant to keep warm during the rain-machine soaked night shoots. Just because PJ liked the Rourke's drift scenario in Zulu doesn't mean he should just copy it directly. If you ask me, the building tension before the battle, that takes up the majority of the middle third of the film, is brilliant. It is certainly built up better in the film, where the battle is a more significant event, than in the book. And you can blame Tolkien for deciding that orcs are no more than mindless, evil thugs. Although they seemed to have some pretty clever strategies to me, anyway. *sigh* I didn't want to get into all this.

  • Because I haven't, as they seem to have trouble processing my credit-card data. Now I know that technical breakdowns frequently occur on the first day of popular on-line ticket sales (the RIFF's online ticketing system has been an unmitigated disaster for the past two years, to the shock and horror of tens of thousands of eager festival-goers), but I was wondering, have any of you come across data-processing problems or is it just me?

  • Because I certainly haven't, as they seem to have trouble processing my credit-card data. Now I know that technical breakdowns frequently occur on the first day of popular on-line ticket sales (the RIFF's online ticketing system has been an unmitigated disaster for the past two years, to the shock and horror of tens of thousands of eager festival-goers), but I was wondering, have any of you come across data-processing problems or is it just me?

  • June 1, 2004, 6:15 p.m. CST

    Just bought 2

    by Runelord

    One for Sabs and one for myself. I guess the message is to not give up, eh?

  • June 1, 2004, 8:01 p.m. CST

    I'm afraid I got my ticket ordered straight away, Elaine.

    by raw_bean

    But then, why are we talking about this here when there's a perfectly good Talkback over at ClubAngband....? :^)

  • June 1, 2004, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Still liked the stomping and chanting

    by daughter of time

    Shall we split the difference and say that the orcs at Helm's Deep were emulating both Zulus and Maoris? Leghorn, in case you'd been lurking that long, you'd know that I've taken all kinds of grief for my many issues with TTT (and I could have done the same with ROTK, but kept a lower profile). However, I could still make a long list of what is brilliant in both films. (FOTR remains, in my mind, nearly perfect.) Nor can I imagine that that ANYONE other than Jackson and his team would have had the combination of creativity, heart and stamina to approach the quality of these films. To call it a "bland and unambitious Hollywood enterprise" boggles the mind, if you have watched the documentaries at all (and you seem to have) and seen how many hundreds of people invested their artistry and passion into making these films as great as they possibly could. We may quibble with their choices, but hacks they are not - and certainly not "Hollywood," just because the result wasn't your idea of perfect. Just as with the books - and if you haven't read them since 13, you might be amazed to find the depth to be found by an adult - one person's least-favorite scene is to another the very proof of genius.

  • June 1, 2004, 10:37 p.m. CST

    My votes. For those about to rock, we salute you.

    by TV's Frank

    BEST SONG SUNG BY A CHARACTER: I was going to vote for Gandalf singing "The Road Goes Ever On and On" as soon as the idea of the category entered my head. I was! I think they did such a great job of making up a tune for those lyrics. Who did that anyway? Howard Shore? BEST HIT POP SONG: Gollum's Song. Perhaps all Icelanders sound like Bjork. I don't see what is so bad about "May it Be," though. BEST VISUAL/MUSICAL ENSEMBLE: 3 Points to Eowyn looking out over Rohan and the flag tearing away and the Rohan Theme playing. 2 Points to the Lightning of the Bleacons and the Gondor Theme. 1 point to the Three Hunters running scene in Two Towers with the Fellowship Theme playing. MOST BEAUTIFUL MUSIC: 3 points to the Shire Theme, any time it is played. I guess I'll say when the Hobbits return to the Shire in Return of the King. Do they play it then? 2 points to the Rohan theme, in the aforementioned Flag Tearing scene. 1 point to the Fellowship Theme during the Three Hunters sequence. I don't know if my terms (Shire Theme, Fellowship Theme etc.) are correct, but hopefully you know which songs I am talking about. I don't own the soundtrack, so I don't know the real names.

  • June 1, 2004, 10:45 p.m. CST

    Arch Stanton

    by TV's Frank

    When Galdalf and Pippin are riding through Minas Tirith with the Gondor theme playing it reminds me of a Sergio Leone western. The Gondor theme sounds kind of like Ennio Moriccone to me. Good stuff.

  • June 2, 2004, 5:10 a.m. CST

    Ho there, TV's Frank.

    by raw_bean

    *I* understood which bits of music you were talking about. Oh, and I think Fran Walsh came up with the tune for 'The Road Goes Ever On'. I think it's stated so in the FOTR:EE Directors/Writer's commetary. ----- Sergio Leone, eh? Don't see it myself, but maybe I'll have a re-listen to the track, and a bit of Leone, and see if I can hear what you're getting at. ---------- Oh, and if you're interested in joining us, we now have our own home over at which now has a fully working (and non-hosing) TalkBack. At some point, the Elanor voting will be moved to there, I expect.

  • June 2, 2004, 6:33 a.m. CST

    Daughter Of Time: lurking?

    by Foghorn-Leghorn

    What do you mean by "lurking"? Is that like "sneaking"? I agree that Jackson's FOTR is the best of the three movies by a long shot. It manages to strike an understandable compromise between quality film-making and Hollywood claptrap. As for TTT, it just seems like a mess to me. They don't seem to have a clue what they were doing. The "build-up" which Raw Bean finds so stimulating is to me clumsy and insulting to the average intelligence. I fully expected to see "Written and directed by George Lucas" at the end of that one. ROTK definitely had some nice moments but they were practically annihilated by the terrible choices made and especially by those unmentionable "endings" which should never have left the cutting-room floor. As for your point about the effort put in to these movies by the stage-hands, prop departments etc - well I'm afraid that has little or nothing to do with the outcome of a movie. A movie stands or falls on the quality of the script, the quality of the director - and to an extent, the quality of the actors. If those elements aren't working properly than the prop-makers can pour every ounce of passion into their work - but it won't make a blind bit of difference. I would say the problems in the LOTR movies lie mainly in the script department - or, if you want to go that far, with the studio who no doubt insisted on including all the Hollywood clich

  • June 2, 2004, 6:40 a.m. CST


    by Conan_the_Humble

    Boy, I say, boy, you're not the first to think up some criticisms of the battle of helm's deep, I have some myself, though they tend towards the tactics used by the defenders. I recall interviews with PJ, Fran Walsh and Phillipa Boyens, where they state that they tried to write and film battles as they would "really happen". I nearly choked when I heard this. The Elven force for instance at Helm's Deep is a direct contradiction to this statement. As if a highly skilled archery force would charge a heavily armoured infantry force after firing a solitary volley of arrows at them. (As happens when the wall is breached at Helm's Deep). The breach in the wall is a natural choke point. In reality the archers would probably keep firing at the Uruks until they ran out of arrows. The dead Uruks would be piled high in the choke point restricting the entrance of further Uruks. This however would have reduced the dramatic tension of the movie. 500 Elven Archers decimating the armies of Isengard wouldn't really have shown the threat to Rohan after all!!! Thus the filmmakers decided to create their own version of what would "really happen". You are quite correct, Tolkien did do a better job with these scenes, however he was a former soldier himself (and an officer at that) and obviously understood how battle "really happened". However in saying this, these movies are still fantastic and we will not likely see better (LOTR movies) in our life time. Cheers.

  • June 2, 2004, 8:07 a.m. CST

    A cure for those ROTK blues! The Fan edit!

    by Ringfan#1

    Greetings, fellow LOTR fans! I wonder if any of you would be interested in a little project I am currently undertaking: re-editing Peter Jackson's Return Of The King. Using my Powerbook G5 with Finalcut Pro and Aftereffects 6 I have decided to fix many of the problems which prevent ROTK from being the great movie it deserves to be. I am talking about the strange inclusions (and omissions) which fall well below the standard we would expect of this movie. My goal is to create the definitive edit of ROTK by removing problematic scenes and shots and adding in other quality material (as soon as it becomes available). This is NOT going to be like the bloated Extended versions Newline is peddling - this is going to be a leaner version which cuts out all the rubbish and improves the overall quality of the movie. I also want to make this version available to any fans who are dissatisfied with the movie as it stands. The problem areas I have identified are as follows: (1) Absence Of Saruman: The fellowship ride up to Orthanc and then.....they ride off. A bit of a non-event in the theatrical release. As soon as the extended version arrives, I will be re-inserting the Saruman scene (provided it is of sufficient quality, of course!). (2) The Paths Of The Dead/Ghost army: A complete disaster in PJ's movie. This could so easily have been a scary sequence but instead it turns out to be comical at best. This bit is going to require the most work from me as I am going to be removing the ghosts completely (using Afetereffects) - so that Aragorn & Co are surrounded by (and speaking to) complete darkness. I am going by the well-established wisdom that what you CAN'T see is scarier than what you can. As for the appearance of the army of green jellybeans at the Pelennor fields, I will be desaturating the green so as to make the jellybeans less visible. I will also be removing as many of the jellybean shots as is feasible. (3) Denethor's palantir. An essential missing plot point which I think will add greatly to the movie. If it is well done, I will be putting it back in. (4) Legolas Vs Mumakil: I will be eliminating this completely. Reason: It's a nice, fun sequence - but is totally out of place in this movie. It belongs in something like The Mummy Returns or Star Wars but here it undercuts the tension of the battle of the Pelennor fields. Also, although it represents top-quality CGI - it still LOOKS like CGI and we don't really need that, do we? An added bonus is that removing this sequence also eliminates a lot of the green jellybean shots. (5) The Mouth Of Sauron. Utterly essential for increasing the tension and emphasising Aragorn's desperate courage. If this sequence is well done, I will be re-inserting it.(6) Aragorn's speech before the Black Gates. How awe-inspiring this speech was in the trailer! And how lame was the version they used in the movie! Rest assured, I have already re-dubbed the Trailer verion (got a nice clean, music-free sample from the ROTK extras disk - praise the Lord!). Believe me, this speech now gives me goose-pimples! (7) The ENDINGS. This is the sequence I am currently working on. I couldn't wait to get my hands on it as it is the major problem with this movie. It is taking a huge amount of work to fix this section. Here are the solutions I am working with: (a) Frodo wakes up and the Fellowship enter one by one: Sam's "knowing" smile has been cut, as has Frodo's "loving" gaze. It's a subtle adjustment, but it reduces the homo-eroticism of the scene. Now I am not homophobic at all but more than one person has commented that Sam and Frodo seem like lovers in this scene. I don't think that's what Tolkien intended and I don't think PJ intended it either. So I've tried to tone it down a bit. Apologies if I've offended anyone with this. (b) Aragorn's coronation "speech" has been cut. It was just plain awful. In the new version, Aragorn simply turns to the crowd, they applaud and then he sings that haunting song. It is ten times more effective without the half-hearted speech. Luckily the music repeats the same three bars here so I was able to make this seemless without interfering with the soundtrack. (c) The camera pans back to reveal a map of Middle-Earth. I love this sequence but I hate Frodo's voice-over ("forever united by friendship and love"? Puh-lease!) Now the voice-over is gone. Recovered the music straight from the soundtrack CD. (d) The map fades into the shot of Frodo writing his book in Bag-End. That's right, I have cut out the return to the Shire, the drink in the Green Dragon, Sam's marriage, and Frodo's voice-over ("How do you pick up the pieces of an old life" etc). Reason: too drawn-out, too schmaltzy and the movie works fine without them. Elijah Wood's voice is very cloying when he's doing those schmaltzy voice-overs and the whole thing simply lowers the tone of the movie. (e) The Grey Havens: now this is very, very tricky, because there are some nice bits here which are utterly ruined by some dreadful schmaltz and poor line delivery. To fix it I am currently doing the following: Galadriel's line "The power of the three rings has ended" has been completely cut due to it's unequivocal awfulness. In my version, Galadriel retains her dignity. I have reversed the shot order so that Elrond spreads his arms and says, "The sea calls us home" to Bilbo. Bilbo then gets on board the ship. This is a much more elegant solution to what was there previously. (f) Galadriel's "cheeky" smile has been cut. She's leaving Middle-Earth, for God's sake! That jaunty grin just undercuts the solemnity of the occasion. (g) Frodo's last cloying smile has been cut completely. (This is after he gets on board the ship). A horribly mis-judged moment, it's now completely gone. The last we see of Frodo is when Gandalf takes his hand and leads him onto the ship. This is far more poignant. (h) The ship sails out of Middle-Earth. THE END. This is a much more natural end to the movie as the ship sails on towards the horizon. We now no longer have to hear Frodo's cloying voice-over as Sam returns home. Whew! That's about it. I believe that the version I'm working on is more dignified, more moving and much stronger than the version released in the theatres. I do feel it is unfortunate that I have to fix problems that could have been so easily dealt with by PJ in his editing suite, but there we are - there's no point complaining about it. (I should add that the main problem with this kind of work is to do with the soundtrack - on a DVD the music and dialogue occupy the same track, so if I alter a scene I have to recover the music and/or dialogue from other sources, such as the soundtrack CD, the credits sequence or the extras disks). If anyone wants a copy of this version when I've finished all the work on it, please don't hesitate to email me. I will eventually send you a DVD free of charge - I'll let you know when it's ready (just send me a stamped, addressed envelope) so you can share in this improved representation of LOTR. Also, feel free to suggest other alterations which may have escaped my notice. I'll be happy to consider them. I am also going to create the definitive TTT (with lots more Saruman, less voice-overs) and the definitive FOTR (though this one needs far less work than the other two). Thanks for your time and hope this is helpful.

  • June 2, 2004, 9:29 a.m. CST

    Harry "weeps and giggles"????

    by Wolfmanjacks

    They're just movies, man. C'mon.THe GOdd the bad and the ugly is a great movie but get a grip of yourself!

  • June 2, 2004, 10:14 a.m. CST


    by raw_bean

    Lurking refers to hanging around a forum reading posts by other users for a time, before you actually join up and start posting yourself. It's how most people get into a particular forum/board. --------- More to the point: 'The "build-up" which Raw Bean finds so stimulating is to me clumsy and insulting to the average intelligence.' There are two ways I can take that statement (ignoring it's grammatical messiness): I have either lower, or greater than average intelligence. I can only assume you meant to imply the former. Quite frankly, I have neither the time nor the patience for you, so I'll say goodbye (and possibly good riddance). Thank you for reminding me why I built my own website, rather than continuing to spend my time posting on AICN.

  • June 2, 2004, 10:41 a.m. CST

    Darn thing's hosed!

    by Wolfmanjacks

  • June 2, 2004, 11:26 a.m. CST

    Week Elven, um, Eleven VOATS

    by Skyway Moaters


  • June 2, 2004, 11:47 a.m. CST

    DDang this TB is ridiculously hosed. Repeat after me: "Club Angb

    by Skyway Moaters


  • June 2, 2004, 12:20 p.m. CST


    by Elaine

    Those of you who still haven't voted for this week's music-related Elanor categories are requested to do so today, either here or on the brand-new and nicely animated Club Angband talkback. **** Foghorn-Leghorn, I think I know where you're coming from. Like yourself, I used to have many complaints about Jackson & Co's handling of certain scenes (especially in "The Two Towers" and the final half hour of "The Return of the King"), but like several others here, I've found that many of the films' errors and shortcomings become less glaring with repeated viewings. Now that I've seen the whole trilogy multiple times, the incomprehensible changes to the storyline, the crude humour and the unsubtlety that mars certain scenes don't bother me all that much anymore. I'd lie if I said I liked them, but I can live with them, and I know the same is true for others who had problems with the films on their first viewing. So here's what I'd advise you. Give "The Return of the King" a second chance, and a third, and a fourth. In all likelihood you'll find that what really bothers you now will become acceptable in the end. You still won't love it, but it won't spoil the film to the extent that it seems to do now.

  • June 2, 2004, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Hmm, by "Best Theme Song" do you mean...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ..."Best end titles song" as I see some possible addled Tailenders have intrepeted and answered accordingly? If so, I like "May It Be" da' bestest... I know, I know, "Into the West is cool and reat and I like Gollums song from T2T as well, but I sticking by "May it Be/In Dreams". Neeyah neeyah..

  • June 2, 2004, 1:23 p.m. CST

    Egads! What the hell was that?! Complete typo meltdown...

    by Skyway Moaters

    Wonder where this will end up. This is getting "ridiculouser and ridiculouser"...

  • June 2, 2004, 2:20 p.m. CST


    by Wall Builder

    I agree with Conan that there is the occassional flaw, but would add that if you cannot see past this then you have your head up your ass. just thought you might want to know.

  • June 2, 2004, 2:22 p.m. CST

    skyway - and now... ridiculousest

    by Wall Builder

  • June 2, 2004, 7:56 p.m. CST

    I'm not attractive enough for Club Angband

    by TV's Frank

    I tried registering several times, but they won't let me post.

  • June 2, 2004, 9:09 p.m. CST

    RE: Foghorn-Leghorson

    by morGoth

    Thankee kindly for reminding why I

  • June 2, 2004, 9:22 p.m. CST

    Definition of "lurking"

    by daughter of time

    Leghorn, it's not an insult. It just means you may have been reading for a while without posting. Most of us have done it. I suspect I agree with you more than I don't; in fact, I just watched FOTR and TTT back-to-back, hoping it might smooth out the rough edges of TTT for me, and instead, I found it hard to believe they were edited, written and directed by the same people. The one I find near-perfection; the other is a series of magnificent images and moments that ultimately fail to move me because they are juxtaposed with so much that just feels wrong - to me. Hard as it is to believe, though, some people are genuinely moved by the build-up to Helm's Deep and resonate with the very images that others of us find trite and annoying. (And never mind our outrage with the battle tactics.) My larger point, though, is that these movies simply would not have been made without the determination of the people who made them. So you take your pick: these films, as they exist, or the fantasy films we have in our heads that will never be made, by anyone. The casting alone is cause for gratitude, however.

  • June 3, 2004, 12:26 a.m. CST

    Indeed he (Aragorn) did MorGy,

    by Conan_the_Humble

    but only at the behest of the script-writers. It is they who i have the biggest problem with. THEY decided to muck with "the story" and then found that they had to dig themselves out of holes they created in several parts. This had the effect of making the story poorer overall and led to inconsistencies in the story. This was admitted by the filmmakers themselves. As to the person committed to making a fan-edit of the film, best of luck, but I doubt you'll improve much on what we have already, unless you're a better film maker thatn Peter Jackson... Cheers.

  • June 3, 2004, 1:14 a.m. CST

    Ringfan, you make the point....

    by daughter of time

    ...that there will never be a definitive perfection version for everyone. While I heartily approve some of your ideas, I just as strongly disagree with some others. As for the endings, I was surprised myself at how much I wish the film had ended at the Grey Havens and not pulled us back to the Shire, even though that works beautifully in the book. And I want MORE of the Travelers' returning.

  • June 3, 2004, 6:09 a.m. CST

    Thanks for your explanation, Daughter Of Time

    by Foghorn-Leghorn

    Well, it seems like we're on the same page about the failings of these movies. I agree that FOTR is by far the most successful adaptation and seems to have been made by a completely different director. If PJ could have maintained the same standard throughout all three movies then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. On a different point, you mentioned that you have been forced to "keep a low profile" on this website. Why? Aren't you allowed to express your opinions? And to the person who says I should keep watching ROTK over and over again until I like it........?? Presuming that I had the time to watch a 3-hour+ movie a half-dozen times, how does that work exactly? Does the endless repetition pummell my senses to the point that I lose all my critical faculties? Do the bad scenes somehow become "un-bad"? Surely the opposite would occur - the bad scenes would become even more irritating through having to watch them over and over, no? And a couple of technical questions for Ringfan#1: Your version of ROTK sounds like one I'd be prepared to consider, but tell me this: how on earth are you going to "remove the ghosts" from the underground cavern scene? Is there software that can do this? It sounds unbelievably complicated. (I agree with you that the army of "green jellybeans", as you aptly put it, is ludicrous and turns the battle into a farce.) How do you "edit" the DVD on your computer? And also, how are you intending to get your finished movie onto a DVD so that others (like myself) can watch it too?

  • June 3, 2004, 6:36 a.m. CST


    by Miami Mofo

    FoghornLeghorn, to answer your question, a lurker is someone who visits this site, reads the posts, but never posts thoughts of his/her own. It is not meant to denigrate someone, merely to describe them. I myself was lurking around here, reading all the LotR info that was posted for over a year before I finally joined the discussions back in Oct.'01. Hope that clears things up.

  • June 3, 2004, 4:55 p.m. CST


    by morGoth


  • June 4, 2004, 2:34 a.m. CST

    To answer your questions, Foghorn-Leghorn....

    by daughter of time

    It does make a person unpopular on these boards offering in-depth critiques about what, in these films, failed to grip. The kind of pro-and-con analysis some of us genuinely enjoy, others find mean-spirited and annoying, and tell us we are spoiling their party. (Or as we wish the dialogue could have been more literate, battle tactics more plausible, or structure more coherent, we are lectured that we insufficiently understand what is "cinematic.") I honestly haven't found that repeated viewings make much of a difference. What did help with ROTK was going in with my expectations matched more to TTT than FOTR. Seeing FOTR any number of times never lessens the magic, and seeing TTT and ROTK repeatedly(though considerably fewer times than FOTR, as of this writing) has never made them feel anything other than wildly uneven, sheer genius one moment, jaw-droppingly wrong the next. I am afraid I will never entirely get over having my hopes raised so high by FOTR, only to be disappointed in TTT and ROTK that the scenes I had so wanted to see on screen were either missing or altered beyond recognition by scriptwriters who think dramatic tension has to mean conflict. (No amount of re-editing can make Frodo and Sam face Shelob together, as they are meant to do.) I think my feelings can best be summed up by saying that, if I had to choose between never seeing or reading FOTR again, I would keep the movie and (regretfully) shelve the book, but there is no question I would keep the books of TTT and ROTK and sacrifice the films, while being grateful forever that Elijah Wood has become Frodo for me, and that I can also insert my favorite cast members among the other characters. And also, I treasure Shore's music, though I mentally interweave it with Ralph Vaughan-Williams for reading purposes. If this thread weren't so horribly hosed, we might have an interesting discussion about what we love and loathe in these films.

  • June 4, 2004, 11:18 a.m. CST

    Daughter Of Time.....

    by Foghorn-Leghorn

    Why on earth does this site place our comments in random order? Surely it would be better to arrange them so each one appears at the bottom of the column. At the moment I am forced to scan the actual dates and time of each post to find the next one in sequence. Well, you are clearly a much bigger LOTR fan than I am as it has been a good few years since I read the books. What you are telling me about the attitudes of people on this forum is very scary. If they are that bigoted, then why do you post here at all? You can't have a proper discussion with people who insist on censoring you. Surely you could take your business somewhere else and leave them to their ravings?

  • June 4, 2004, 1:27 p.m. CST

    RE: Foghorn-Leghorn concerning the daughter of time

    by morGoth

    Since you seem to be a new poster, I think it only fair that you get, as Paul Harvey sez,

  • June 4, 2004, 4:44 p.m. CST

    Qick little concept for Foggy and Fan, AKA: Where's djinnj when

    by Skyway Moaters

    Because she would state this more elegantly than I shall, I'm sure. Try looking at the "endings" as an EPLILOGUE. The end of the tale, the end of the main body of the narrative, the end of THE MOVIE is the coronation. All that follows is an epilogue - a pulling back, a seperation from te intimate relationship(s) the reader/viewer has developed with the characters over the course of the their jounrny(ies): "OK, Aragorn is crowned", he nmnarries Arwen, the Hobbits are honored, THE END - Here's what happened to them AFTER..." EPILOGUE, not multiole endings.

  • June 5, 2004, 3:22 p.m. CST

    Don't be ridiculous, MorGy

    by daughter of time

    I have never "hounded" anyone. If anyone was so miffed at my or anyone else's disappointment at various aspects of the later films that they chose to stop posting, they were not driven away. The more mature choice would be not to read the posts of whoever upsets them and go on posting/reading the unqualified praise that makes them happy. This isn't a "real" party where someone has to leave because they can't bear the drunkenness, shouting, or feels physically threatened. Good grief. As far as giving as good as I got, that's called healthy debate. Anyway, I think you are making my point for me to Leghorn. It is literally impossible to post here with a mix of "what I liked/what I didn't like" without being called a basher, a troll, or an "elitist" - an epithet that doesn't disturb me, though I'm not sure what its antonym is, since those who use it must assume they are its superior opposite. A populist, perhaps? Yes, I did frequently agree with Orson; at other times, I disagreed, and told him so; and I mostly was not paying attention during his more egregious trolling, for which I am not responsible. A person can be perfectly loathsome and still have interesting things to say. He or she can also start off with a blanket negative, and then settle in to a more balanced discussion, like Leghorn. But there's a real paranoia is assuming that anyone who posts a negative about these films is really a troll, or Orson in disguise, as is already being debated on Club Angband. At any rate, good luck, Leghorn; I enjoyed our brief exchange.

  • June 6, 2004, 2:25 a.m. CST


    by djinnj

    I've been gone so long I can't remember how to do this anymore! Folks, I've decided to try and get to Boston. I've decided to get exhibition tix now and figure out the details later, even if I have to drive up all by my lonesome and camp out in my car. Anyway, I'm trying to buy tix, and the site keeps giving me blank pages. ARGH! Anyway, I've emailed the great and powerful bean, so hopefully, I'll be able to post at the new digs soon. Dunno if anyone's still reading this, but thought I'd blow off some steam. Oh, and Moaters, you've got it exactly right, just without all the wacky narratology jargon I'm apt to throw in. :D

  • June 6, 2004, 11:02 a.m. CST

    Sorry, Morgoth, I don't buy it.

    by Foghorn-Leghorn

    From what I've seen so far, the group of people who post here are quasi-religious zealots who simply cannot abide any challenge to their extremist views . I have privately emailed DOT to advise her not to waste time with people of your ilk. And as a final demonstartion of this point, let me say this: Peter Jackson's movies have good moments and BAD moments. They are not beyond criticism. They are not quality films, though the first episode aspires to quality. Episodes 2 and 3 however, are uneven, cartoonish - and occasionally quite appallingly bad. Overall, these movies are ambitious in their scale but NOT in their quality. They are standard FX-driven "event" movies . They are cinematic fast-food. And they are already looking quite dated. Just like you people.

  • June 6, 2004, 5:23 p.m. CST

    Thankee kindly F-L...

    by morGoth

    ...that's just what I expected to hear and of course you don't, since you weren't there. Your recitation of the catechism is commendable in its steadfastness. Way to stand up on those hind legs! Or as Arky Calfcart says, "It's all just a bunch of petty horse-shit anyway."

  • June 7, 2004, 6:36 a.m. CST

    Special Fan Edition - update

    by Ringfan#1

    Thanks to all those who showed their support for my project

  • June 8, 2004, 9:35 a.m. CST

    It's nice to pop back here every now and then,

    by raw_bean

    just to remind myself how much this place used to depress me, and why I've moved on.

  • June 8, 2004, 9:50 a.m. CST


    by Conan_the_Humble

    You're a fool, who doesn't possess the wit to pass judgement on those, who are so obviously his betters. If all you're going to do is offer "sauce" then why don't you do it somewhere else? Name 1 single "extremist" view that anyone who posts "here" has shown? None of us are "quasi-religious" zealots. Point out a post where religion has even been mentioned, let alone discussed. This won't happen though, it can't because it simply isn't true. If your actual intention is to drive people away from here, then I guess you're succeeding. I have somewhere else better to be, good-bye. Cheers.

  • June 9, 2004, 1:03 p.m. CST

    by Skyway Moaters

    You can learn all there is to know about their ways in a fortnight, yet after a hundred years they will still surpirse you

  • June 10, 2004, 3:11 p.m. CST

    At last, a few spare minutes! Blessed relief!

    by Pallando Blue

    [*cricket chirps* ... *lonely coyote howls in the distance* ... overhead: "ka-KAW! ka-KAW!"] ...And now there's no one else here. Feh! And petulant sniping when there was. Feh! Fine, I talk to myself. *** All righty then, rude pedants (as opposed to the rest of us crude pedants) being ignored, I shall remain On Topic. On said Topic I gotta say, hot DAMN it's good to have the Theatrical Trilogy all in one place! [Also, I'm a sucker for "Angel Heart," gonna haveta grab that, too] Sadly, have not yet had that one wonderful day to which I may devote an entire 9.5-Hour Personal Butt-Numb-A-Thon, but I swear by my pointed skull that day's gonna come... Have, of course, watched ROTK at home now (once *sigh* ...but also once more since, on the BIG SCREEN! With BEER, baby) and 2 things stand out: (1) With the smaller screen the spectacle is reduced -- and so the emotions are heightened. Maybe cause it's been a couple months, and you can forget just how GOOD the damn thing is, but I was choking up, hard, once again at all the same places. It helps that I'm a total sap. (2) The fact that they managed to get near 3.5 hours of movie onto one side of one DVD with reference-quality image and sound, I just don't see how there's gonna be any real demand for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD in the near future. I'm going to have to see some knock-out live demo to convince me the "improved" experience will be worth the investment. Studios just need to get off their ass and produce high-quality DVDs. I can just as easily see lazily produced Blu-Rays and HDs by the usual suspects, and predict innumerable reviews that amount to "stick with your (or buy the now way-cheaper) DVD version." As someone elsewhere pointed out, how many of you audiophiles ever converted to SuperAudioCD for your music, or even DAT? So THANK YOU, New Line, and the DVD producers, for putting such effort into these flicks' DVDs from the beginning. I think this format's just damn right. *** [....*wind whistles through the canyon* .... *tumbleweed rolls by* ....] Fine. You know what? Whatever. Who needs company. .... ..... ..... ...Echo-o-o-o! [... "echo-o-o..!" ...] ...Sigh.

  • June 10, 2004, 4:30 p.m. CST

    Hey Pallando

    by Sabster

    Everybody's at the club!

  • June 10, 2004, 5:24 p.m. CST

    Yesss Pallaaaandoooo...

    by Pontsing Barset

    ... we abandondeded this festering stiiiinking pile of an excuse for a TETB (no offense Harry, and I realize I'm preaching to the choir here -something needs to be done; yes?)for the greener (and soon to be even greener I hear {;-)) pastures of Club Angband. Yes we have INDEED precioussss. Haven't we? And haven't I seen you posting over that a-ways? In the general vicinity? Anyways? Come join us Oh Blue Wizardly one, yeesss joinsss ussss... No nassstty trollerssesss over there...

  • June 10, 2004, 7:16 p.m. CST

    Yeah, well, sounds great, guys, thanks, but...

    by Pallando Blue

    ...couple things. First... uh, I hope the gang isn't abandoning AICN altogether and becoming some kind of cloistered society. Or did I give a rousing spirited swear-laden rant a coupla months ago for nothing? Was my point completely lost, or did everyone's "Yeah!"s have an asterisk and "Until our club's website opens!" at the bottom of the page? Man, I wouldn't really dig that. *** Don't get me wrong! Great hangout! Glad it's there! Which brings me to: *** Second, had a few chances to go look at raw bean's site -- great job! Rawster if you read this, KUDOS my 'cross-the-pond friend! Even been able to catch up there a little bit (no, never posted), believe it or not -- and seems yer wrong, Barset ol' pal, at least regarding "no nassstty trollerssess over there." Because, as a result of said troller(s), Beanie has shut down the registration page. In its stead he has a note to the effect that registration's closed in the hopes of making a troll-free zone (a hopeless cause if you ask me -- it's the freakin' Internet for crying out loud!) and if I wish to sign up, e-mail him. So... I did that a few days ago, but heard nothing back so far. Probably he just hasn't seen the e-mail yet, or maybe with the registration page down getting a new "member" registered is trickier than anticipated. I dunno. Either way, the upshot is, I can't come play at the same treehouse for th' nonce. Or I'd a-poked my nose in there already, I swear! *** So [to wrestle this into something Tolkien-related ;) ], call me not the Avari, the Unwilling [oh lord, am I flying the geek flag high! HA! :) ] Rather I am of the Tailenders "who set out indeed upon the march to CAC, but became lost upon the long road, or turned aside, or lingered on the shores of AICN... Those idiots the Angbanders call the Dumbanyar, since they came never to the land of CAC and the Unhosed Realm; but the Dumbanyar and the Avari alike they call the MoriHarryquendi, Tailenders of the Darkness, for they never beheld the White that was before the Redesign." Yadda yadda yadda. ...Anyway, it's comfy here, too! Remember: entropy's only a problem in a closed system. :)

  • June 10, 2004, 7:25 p.m. CST

    Oh, and before I forget!

    by Pallando Blue

    Add to the "Annoying Elitist Moot Board" :) for me if you could ...Or maybe to the main CAC board if he ain't readin' the former... Isn't cutestofborg a Virjanyan too? I thought he was down you shore people's way, Pontser. He IS in on the vamoot talk, right? Just seems like all anyone's talking is Boston, and I wanted to make sure he ain't left out of this month's gig by accident. Did he already bag out?

  • June 10, 2004, 10:16 p.m. CST

    Hi, Miami!

    by Pallando Blue

    Oh, don't be distressed. ;)

  • June 10, 2004, 10:37 p.m. CST

    Hey there PB, fancy meetin' you here

    by mortsleam

    Bean has been updated as to your signing-up difficulties. The same thing happened to me, but he squeaked me in. I think he's busy with his...uhm...actual job, or something. Being a webmaster has to be a tricky business. People wanting special colors, graphics, even *swearing filters* (whatever the fuck that would be) must keep him busy. Don't fret, you'll get in there soon. And, aside from an end to hosery and the blessing of paragraph breaks, the only reason we've been over there so much lately is because it's just been too fucking hard to get on this site lately. And even when we can, it's nigh impossible to post. At least that's my excuse. But really, with psychotic bugfuckers like our above friends running around...I mean, really, what would we be missing? But worry not, I'm still around, making fun of Quint's favorite genres, skewering Harry's atrocious grammar and Moriarty's wholly misplaced pomposity. I freakin' love this place! Still, I'd love it better if I could still post as, ahem, Walrus, which I can do elsewhere...ggg'j

  • June 11, 2004, 4:12 a.m. CST

    Relax PB,

    by Conan_the_Humble

    though you're description of those who never made CAB's pearly white shores was funny and desipte my last post, I still frequent here... Cheers.

  • June 11, 2004, 4:50 a.m. CST

    Do you use your AICN signed up email addy, Pallando?

    by raw_bean

    I've just emailed you re ClubAngband. :^)

  • June 11, 2004, 4:52 a.m. CST

    Oh yeah,

    by raw_bean

    and Pallando, no fear, I was posting here at AICN just yesterday, explaining how the Matrix sequels could have been salvaged on Harry's Chronicles of Riddick review TB. :^)

  • June 11, 2004, 1:05 p.m. CST

    Fear not brutha Blue

    by morGoth

  • June 11, 2004, 4:08 p.m. CST

    Sweet Fancy Stewards, gracias for all the howdys, y'all!

    by Pallando Blue

    In truth, it's only by virtue of the grand pomp and circumstance concomitant with the passing of a President of the United States that's momentarily lifted my cone of silence a few inches off the ground, granting me a peek and a shout-out. In other words, this city has Shut Down, in a National Day of Mourning and the closing of the federal goevernment (and hundreds of thousands of people flowing in to pay their respects all week). As a result, not to sound inappropriately grateful, I got the day off today, which freed up last night as well. And so a rare little window opened up in between the day job, and freelance gig #1 (which regularly steals chunks of my nights), and freelance gig #2 (which regularly eats portions of my weekends -- but has a definite life span, project ending in a few more weeks *knock wood*). So -- happy to have a chance to say How Do! :) *** I'll let ya have a pass, morG, seeing as how I did singe ye some in a public Reply All. :) All's fair! But I have been able to lurk for a bit now, and was noticing a widening gap between traffic at CAC and the Auld Stampin' Grounds... I guess the first part of my above post was just a wanna-be-sure, and sorry if it sounded gruntled, y'all! But all along I honestly did figure the traffic gap was cause raw bean made a nice stable site and Harry's web design sucks Nazgul nipple. :) I mean, that's the other big reason I've been so scarce; whenever I HAVE had a chance to scoot over here, the server's been impenetrable! So, yeah, I do get it. :) *** And, got bean's e-mail this a.m. and replied, so I'm sure I'll be marking my spot over there soon enough (warning: I do mean "mark," and I've had a pot of coffee). True enough, my fault he never got my first attempt, best I can reconstruct -- I was replying to his vamoot reply, and I'm sure hotmail oh-so kindly bundled up all the previous e-mails that were in the reply history into an attachment. And e-mails w/ attachments and spam filters don't mix. Seriously, they, like, HATE each other, or something. All's well, I got a good night's sleep (BLESSED! BLESSED SLEEP! BLESSED BLESSED SLEEP!), and any lingering unprovoked crankiness is so much grit on my lashes, knuckled off during an unhurried hot shower. :) *** So, first part of my lazy day off today, I finally, FINALLY got around to watching the T2T:EE with the Design team's commentary. I know! And I still have the post-prod team to go! Anyway, great stuff, and I'm definitely among those who get a serious fucking kick out of Richard Taylor's dramatic sentence construction. :) I'll tell you something else: even with the Hannahs and/or Major, Howe or Lee going on in the foreground, they were utterly tuned out as soon as I saw Hill mouth "Where is my son..?" You know the old filmmaker's axiom, that a film's story should still be discernable with all sound off? Meaning, if you watch a good film, that you've never seen before, with the Mute button on for its entire duration, you would still be able to understand who people are and what is happening to know what is going on (there's a better version of my point in some director's quote, but damn if I can pin it down right now). Well, during the entirety of Theodred's funeral, and through Hill's scee alone with McKellen after, I didn't hear a lick of commentary. May as well have been on mute; Miranda's plaintive singing just piercing through. I was hypnotized, and welling up. I told you, I'm a total sap. Cut back inside, I'm blinking coughing, sniffling and realizing Chris Hennah's describing the pennant work behind Theoden's throne. ...I guess my belabored point's obvious. And at this point, farkin' redundant ("Hello, choir, prepare for a sermon." "Aw RIGHT!"). PJ and everyone, they made one hell of a film! :)

  • June 12, 2004, 10:03 a.m. CST

    Of chronological posts and paragraphs

    by Miami Mofo

    Hola Pallando! Have no fear, I too have not abandonded AICN, however the fact that the Club has chronological posts and paragraphs, makes it a very inviting and pleasant place to visit, even if it is in need of a paint job. Charcoal black, perhaps? ;~)

  • June 12, 2004, 2:40 p.m. CST

    Foidermore, Mr. Blue

    by morGoth

  • June 12, 2004, 2:43 p.m. CST

    Yer right as rain about CA, Miami...

    by morGoth

    ...but I can't access it from workies during my lunch break. Bother...why can't I have the best of both worlds? Really, is it so much to ask? ** Hey, have ya'll checked out how much the Narnia pre-production art looks like LoTR? That's a compliment, trust me, and it may well be because WETA is involved.

  • June 14, 2004, 1:33 p.m. CST

    I got my CAC on! ....and Dark Tower VI! ...and morG: Stuff It

    by Pallando Blue

    Stealing time from the day gig today, trying to make it count! My CAC posting priveleges have been most wonderfully granted, paragraphing ability almost certainly has been abused. :) Thanks again, rawster! *** Before I forget, fellow DTers: Bought "Song of Susannah" Friday, finished it yesterday. I think it's the shortest installment, and fastest read, since "The Gunslinger." And I'd recommend keeping your eyes off the book jacket, as it's written awfully confusing in its successful efforts to spoil the book's contents. Very annoyingly written; fire that intern! ...I'll hold off on any review til I know them's that wants to read it, done read it. I'll merely cencapsulate: Thumbs Up. :) *** So, morG, how about taking all your oh-so-subtle paranoid persecution-complex accusations, writing em down on a piece of paper with a real high-quality, stiff bond, rolling that piece of paper up into a nice tight tube, and shoving it, por favor. I really don't know what "pattern" or "evidence" you're talking about, but you obviously suspect me of having some sort of assocation with "Orson", either in collusion, or, perhaps your real fantasy, that I AM that peckerhead. Well, fuck you kindly, morG, your delusions couldn't be further from the truth. I'll happily tell you so again live in person in a couple weeks, and accept your apology by way of a cerveza gratis in that little El Salvadoran restaurant across from the theater. Capische? Defend your perceived "patterns" all you want, but friendly warning: you're starting to genuinely tick me the fuck off. Last I'll say 'bout it, 'kay? And for the record, the "petulant sniping" comment was far more than half directed at that Foghorn jerkwater, and when I was posting last week (for the first time IN weeks) I couldn't even recall just who it was that was responding to him in the days prior, seeing as how I skipped more than 2/3 of that call-and-response once I caught its flavor. ...Suppose I shoulda made an educated guess who it was, though, huh. Heh heh! ;^D So chill yerse'f down, okay, mon noir ami? *** So, hopefully that's the very LAST bit of unpleasantness done with, so to close: also added vamoot news (semi-news, anyway) to the CAC:EMB. Things're shapin' up! ...Gonna be a harried-as-hell week (3-day weekends, especialy ones unplanned for months in advance, come with s stiff price), but I'll try to keep my nose in better'n I have! *** On Topic: RETURN OF THE KING KICKS MY ASS!

  • June 14, 2004, 2:18 p.m. CST

    Now hold on a sec ye' pointy hatted idealist

    by Skyway Moaters

    "TAKE BACK THE TALK BACKS" was in response to our 'hiding out' from a psycho who was stalking the TEs and taking out his ill humour on the AICN TBs in general by stretching out the boards and trying to frame elanor. I think the drop in TE posts you've noticed is more a result of CAC's debut and "hosing frustration" than of a concious decision to abandon AICN. I pretty much reserve the Moaters ID for TE related posts but I still read many of the boards and comment occasionally using "another" posting handle there's more than one... sooo, I guess *I* could be considered a TB psycho myself, but I don't stalk innocent strangers... where was I going with this? Oh yeah: "Chill Brother Blue!" We all got each others backs with the Tailender thing. CA's just another place to post. It's a shame Bean had to shut down the registration though. Maybe you could turn it back on after this TB falls off the main page Bean? How many nuts did you get anyway? I'm a little behind on my CA reading. *** Just two weeks to the VA Screening Moot! Hooray! How many are coming? Did elanor say she could make it? CUTEST! get your cyborgin' butt up to Arlington!

  • June 14, 2004, 8:06 p.m. CST

    Way to go off half-cocked Pallando.

    by morGoth

    Sheesh, do you honestly think I meant you (and here I though

  • June 15, 2004, 10:53 a.m. CST

    A Letter From The Management

    by Pallando Blue

    Dear Readers, This letter is to announce that the Staff Member responsible for the Inter-Tailender portion of yesterday's posting, has been sacked. This person was new, and under-trained, for which PB Publishing accepts full responsibility. We take the Inter-Tailender segment of "Pallando Blue" very seriously, knowing its long history and tradition of sober, thinking discussion. But recent budget cuts and understaffing forced us to drastically shuffle office duties in a very short period of time, during which there were several bureaucratic mix-ups, and paperwork being lost. Which led to the past week's unfortunate situation of a junior cafeteria staff member (on work release from the County Penitentiary) being Editor-in-Chief of Inter-Tailender Publishing. For any distress this person's inexperience and choleric humor may have caused, the Board of Directors sincerely apologizes. A full corporate restructure is underway in the aim of this incident never reoccurring. We look forward to a renewed future and continued strong ties with the community. Thank you, [signed] George Leroy Tirebiter, Chairman, Board of Directors, PB Publishing, The Pallando Group Ltd., A Wholly Owned Subsidiary Of Pallando Blue World Corp "Everyone Loves A Blue Job!(c)". [handwritten at bottom of page: "Hey, briquette-buttocks! 'In one thing you have not changed, dear friend, you still speak in riddles!' ...You remember the next line, right? ;) "]

  • June 15, 2004, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Aonair F

    by An B


  • June 15, 2004, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Wha-hooooo! Gaelic!

    by Elaine

    Thank you, thank you, whoever you are. Great stuff. "One ring to bind them..." and "Smoke rises from the mountain of doom...", eh? If there's any more where that came from, I'll be interested to see it. I can't think of a better way to learn Gaelic. Well, actually I can, but this has to be the most pleasant way. Ta very much!

  • June 15, 2004, 1:30 p.m. CST

    Love your handle, by the way, An Beal Bocht

    by Elaine

    Very tasteful.

  • June 15, 2004, 1:35 p.m. CST

    Elaine, you're a total junkie

    by Skyway Moaters

    My Irish is pretty rusty (as in nonexistant) but I was working it out ya ding dong knowit-all! Seriously though. How did you come by this one? I got the "One Ring" bit, but I was struggling with the Saruman quote.

  • June 15, 2004, 1:40 p.m. CST

    So Elaine, what is the translation the tasteful handle:

    by Skyway Moaters

    An Beal Bocht?

  • June 15, 2004, 1:46 p.m. CST

    My Gaelic is pretty non-existent too, Moaters

    by Elaine

    However, as I told Ingold last week, I'm very good at Google searches, and I managed to find an on-line dictionary that features many of the words used in the quotes. It's over at gaelic/irish-dic.html (remove the space). I admit I had trouble deciphering the Saruman quote on the basis of the words provided by the dictionary, but I've seen "The Fellowship of the Ring" enough times to recognise a Saruman quote when I see one! **** Incidentally, An Beal Bocht (whoever you are), is it a coincidence that these quotes appear here a day after I asked for Gaelic quotes on Club Angband or are you a Club Angband lurker who hasn't been able to register on the site? In either case, do delurk. The more Club Angbanders, the merrier! **** Right. And now I'm off to watch some football...

  • June 15, 2004, 1:48 p.m. CST

    Look up the handle yourself, Moaters

    by Elaine

    You'll find all the words in the dictionary mentioned above. :-)

  • June 15, 2004, 5:19 p.m. CST

    "The Poor Mouth"(?)

    by Skyway Moaters

    I can see the word roots here. French - bouche. Spanish & Portugese - boca. Italian - bocca. Where else can you get a good lashing and a linguistics dialogue at the same time? Rock on Mistress!

  • June 15, 2004, 6:48 p.m. CST


    by morGoth


  • He laughed...BV

  • June 15, 2004, 7:24 p.m. CST

    Eh? What's that? A senile Calumniator?!

    by Skyway Moaters

    I woulda never thunk it. What ARE ye blabberin' about Monsieur Briquette Buttocks?

  • June 16, 2004, 5:38 a.m. CST

    Moaters, I think it's "A Soft Mouth"

    by Elaine

    Nice, huh?

  • June 16, 2004, 9:49 a.m. CST


    by An B

    An B

  • June 16, 2004, 10:06 a.m. CST

    Happy Centenary "Bloomsday" djinnj!

    by Skyway Moaters

    And to anyone else who knows what I'm talking about

  • June 17, 2004, 2:25 a.m. CST

    Tell me, friend: when did Saruman the Wise abandon R

    by Sabster

    Hey, Gaelic is much easier than I thought! *** Welcome aboard, An B

  • June 17, 2004, 7:40 a.m. CST

    Moaters, you missed 'A Blooming Good Time'

    by Miami Mofo

    'A Blooming Good Time' is the headline of an article on page three of today's 'Miami Herald' Metro section which goes onto say, "About a hundred fans of James Joyce's landmark novel, 'Ulysses' attended Coral Gables celebrations to mark the 100th anniverary of Bloomsday." FYI, Books & Books in Coral Gables has been holding Bloomsday readings for the past ten years.

  • June 17, 2004, 8:47 a.m. CST

    Oops, forgot to say...

    by An B

    Well done, Elaine and Sabster for being able to work out those puzzles. Gaelic can be quite tricksy since the verbs and nouns transform themselves considerably depending on how they're being used. Elaine, you seem to know some Gaelic. Have you studied it? Your guess at " An B

  • June 18, 2004, 10:52 a.m. CST

    Couldn't get out to an Official Bloomsday get-together, but did

    by Pallando Blue

    A stash of which is always on hand in case of emergencies. :) ...One of these days, I swear I'm gonna finally crack Ulysses. Maybe this winter. As a devoted Faulkner and Pynchon fan, what excuse do I have anymore? *** Welcome, An Beal Bocht! As a complete dunce and unrepentant monolingual, I'll just say Hi. :)

  • June 18, 2004, 10:54 a.m. CST

    I'M HO-O-O-O-O-O-O-OSED!!!

    by Pallando Blue

    Teehee, it's been so long, it kinda tickles. Ooo, stop that, you beast! Teehee!

  • June 19, 2004, 1:24 p.m. CST


    by morGoth

    Pallando closed his last post with

  • June 21, 2004, 1:56 p.m. CST


    by Pallando Blue

    "Who you callin' a HO!?" ....Anyway, to quoth Hizzoner, How'm I doin'? How'm I doin'? Still hosed?

  • June 22, 2004, 10:32 a.m. CST


    by Pallando Blue

    Oh Hose A-You-O-O-O-OH..... So? We back yet? Hmm? Well?

  • June 23, 2004, 11 a.m. CST

    Man, it's so MUGGY these days................

    by Pallando Blue

    I could really use a nice HOSING!

  • June 23, 2004, 11:02 a.m. CST

    Well hey hey HEY!

    by Pallando Blue

    No hosing today! Guess it'll haveta be a bath instead. [To quote the wet Bugs Bunny, "What the--!? This ain't Saturday!"]

  • June 26, 2004, 10:46 a.m. CST

    Hey whaddaya know?

    by Conan_the_Humble

    My userid still works here. Huh, who would have figured. My condolences for your loss Mr Moaters. Cheers.

  • June 26, 2004, 11:48 a.m. CST

    Hullo Conan...

    by morGoth

    ...nopers, we haven't been banned or anything...yet. IT's odd, I've cecked out a few other TB's and there's this huge blank space at the bottom of Talk Back's these days. Harry finally addressing the TB hosery and, GASP!, having someone do something about it? Say Conan, what about that entertainment yer supposed to be booking as a result of the (very) generous promotion you received? ** On another note, I simply MUST look at some of the specials on disk two of the ROTK DVD. Shame, shame on me head. Has NOONE else? Are they worth looking at? It seems most all was said and done in the first two, eh? Just curious if anyone else has watched 'em?

  • June 27, 2004, 9:34 a.m. CST

    Yes morGoth, I have.

    by Miami Mofo

    And once you watch 'em, you too, will develop a serious case of deja vu (all over again, as Yogi Berra used to say). You see, the "specials" are almost identical. I took the time to watch them because I was hoping that one of the shows was one that I had seen shortly before RotK opened (it wasn't). In the show I was hoping to see, they showed them filming the celebration scene at Edoras, and in it where Gandalf answers Aragorn's "What does your heart tell you?" question with, "That Frodo is alive.", the special shows him answering, "That Frodo lives." It is my belief that PJ, Fran and Phillipa were trying to honor the 'Frodo Lives' button, but couldn't get the English to work properly. I do hope that they change the answer in the EE though. Meanwhile, my favorite LotR TV special was Bravo's 'From Page to Screen', which, unfortunately, was never included in any of the DVDs.

  • June 28, 2004, 7:49 a.m. CST


    by Conan_the_Humble

    The first act at the Club has arrived... Cheers.

  • June 28, 2004, 8:39 p.m. CST

    Vu-geda noted near Pincup!

    by morGoth

    Any head worth his salt would get that one {[:^) Yes, I see what you mean after checking them out. Other than the droning repetition, I did get to see Sam toss away his beloved pots and pans, Merry vowing to serve Theoden and him accepting. Definitely worth the viddy! I guess they just ran out of things to talk about that weren

  • June 30, 2004, 12:43 p.m. CST

    Just saw your condolences Conan...

    by Skyway Moaters

    Thanks mate. Your conern is appreciated.

  • July 1, 2004, 7:30 a.m. CST


    by Conan_the_Humble

    No problem. Cheers.

  • July 1, 2004, 12:28 p.m. CST

    I propose...

    by morGoth

    ...we close out this Tailend and re-locate to #17878, the King Kong Twenty Questions (I just can't think of any!) TB. See ya there mellyn {[:^)

  • Oct. 3, 2005, 3:11 p.m. CST

    Fine, morGy...

    by Elaine

    And while I&#39;m at it: LAST.

  • June 12, 2006, 4:36 p.m. CST


    by mortsleam

    Feels good. Everything I had to give up in order to get it, not so much.