April 22, 2004, 2:35 a.m. CST
big fat harry deal!<snicker>
April 22, 2004, 2:40 a.m. CST
Beautiful images. Like the Wachowski's , it's nice to another director why an eye and heart for getting it right visually. Can't wait !
April 22, 2004, 2:43 a.m. CST
by Commando Cody
Harry, speaking as a film geek, I love the site but you REALLY have to start working on your writing and punctuation. Reading through that initial paragraph is torture given the run on sentences that don't end or never actually finish a point! That said, I GATHER the news is that Paramount has pushed back the movie. No news to me there. I have a friend who's done some side work on this project and said to me more than a month ago that there was just no way they were gonna make the effects deadline now and that a release push-back announcement was imminent. So what's the deal, Harry? You said you got "official word" from Paramount and that it will be a few more tomorrows but what is that in REAL english? Are we talking Fall? Thanksgiving or Christmas? Next Spring or even all the way to summer 2005?
April 22, 2004, 2:47 a.m. CST
Harry obviously hasn't heard that brevity is the soul of wit. Looks like Sept. 17th is the new date.
April 22, 2004, 2:50 a.m. CST
by Commando Cody
I checked to see if my post went up, but in hitting REFRESH on my browser that entire opening paragraph and its copy CHANGED from God awful unreadable english that had been posted to all-new, revised and much cleaner copy. So I take it back, Harry. Guess you read what you initially posted and said "What the hell?" yourself and fixed it. NOW it makes sense!
April 22, 2004, 2:52 a.m. CST
I'm gonna watch this experiment, but I'm not too jazzed about it. How come all of the interior and character stuff (e.g. everything not associated with robots and airplanes and guns) look like a soap opera? I'm not talking about writing-wise, I'm talking that filtery, very stage-y look. I don't know if I can take a movie with fake interior sets. It sounds ridiculous (and looks so).
April 22, 2004, 2:58 a.m. CST
by Stanley Spector
Pulpy, visionary City of the Future AND Angelina Jolie? If it also had Jennifer Lopez and lesbian erotica, Ebert would proclaim it the greatest film ever made. (Btw, this is not meant to be disrespectful in any way... Ebert's one of my heroes.)
April 22, 2004, 2:59 a.m. CST
by Stanley Spector
They'll premiere it as a gala presentation at the Toronto Film Festival.
April 22, 2004, 3:02 a.m. CST
by Big Dumb Ape
Uh...no. Not at all. Though a plug for fat ass Michael Moore getting worked into news about SKY CAPTAIN getting pushed back ranks right up there with Herc's innane anti-Bush comments in the midst of telling people 24 was simply delayed the other week. Sheesh, could this site POSSIBLY be any more Leftist? As to that $40 million, I doubt Moore will get that as a promotional budget. On the other hand, most theaters showing Moore's film could USE 40 million to improve their rest room plumbing since they'll NEED wider pipes to flush away the pure bullshit Moore will once again foist on the world claiming it's "truth". Gee, can't wait to hear what 2 differing things he magically splices together in the editing room this time so that they appear as one, and thus bears no resemblence to the actual TRUTH. What a sack of shit Moore is. Hope he chokes on his whopper any moment now...
April 22, 2004, 3:02 a.m. CST
I can wait until sept. No big deal. We have more than enough stuff coming out in the summer to hold us over. Oh, and look! The Micheal "I lie about most of the stuff I talk about" Moore c*ck sucking has begun on here...yay. And before you irate talkbackers attack me for not liking Moore, listen, I agree with alot of his views, but he is so freakin' dishonest in his "documentaries" that I think he does more harm than good. I don't know why anyone takes him seriously. Great documentary maker, but only if you don't mind a huge chunk of what he ways are (self-admitted) stretches of truth or plain old lies! Its all out there...go look for it before you start yelling at me...
April 22, 2004, 3:04 a.m. CST
*says* in that last line, not ways...too many Guiness, to little sleep...bah!
April 22, 2004, 3:07 a.m. CST
April 22, 2004, 3:12 a.m. CST
Yes, but nobody's perfect...Hate to break it to ya, muh friend, but this is Harry's site, and if he wants to post the complete speeches of Moqtada al-Sadr, that's his prerogative. Besides, heavy-set lefties have to stick together! :-) Back on topic: Could a cross-dressing, eyepatch wearing Jolie be any f***ing HOTTER? As soon as my printer stops chattering, I'm heading straight into my bathroom, you bet!
April 22, 2004, 3:17 a.m. CST
Fuck! This (along with Garden State) was by far my most awaited film of the summer. Something that truly looked unique. Fucking figures it would get delayed. This can't bode well for the planned sequels, as it will almost certainly not make as much money in the middle of September. They would do themselves a favor by waiting until Christmas. P.S. To the Conservatives on this site, will you people please just shoot yourselves or something? Fuckin sheep.
April 22, 2004, 3:21 a.m. CST
I want this movie to work -- I really do. But the trailer really took the blood out of my hard-on for it. The dialogue sounds terrible. And frankly, I just don't like the digital color palette. I'm sorry, but it just looks like the badly colorized B&W movies that Turner Broadcasting put out in the 80's. Plus, the trailer fails to evoke that sense of rousing adventure that I was hoping for from this movie. I know it's only a trailer and I should shut up until I see the actual movie. But I've gotta know -- am I in the minority with this? This just doesn't look like what I was hoping for when I first heard about this movie. And another thing --- I absolutely abhor the fact that everything except the actors is CG. What is the point of that????? Why not go the whole nine yards and just use digital actors too? From the "acting" I've seen in the trailer, I don't know what we're gaining by having human actors in it. Truth be told, I'd rather see this as a feature length 2D animated feature in the Fleischman style. I hope my opinion can be turned around on this. I WANT to like it.
April 22, 2004, 3:23 a.m. CST
by Jon E Cin
April 22, 2004, 3:29 a.m. CST
by Big Dumb Ape
The whole "Well, it's Harry's site so he can mix in politics where and when he wants" answer has to be the weakest one going. Sure, it's his site -- no question -- but it's SUPPOSED to be a MOVIE NEWS site, not a lecturesome political site. Worse, a lecturesome political site that doesn't even PRETEND to be balanced. This place is supposed to be about movies. Or rather, that's what it started out as and bases its fame on. Now IF Harry wants to turn it into a far more political site, you're right -- that's his right. But who the hell wants to come here and read headlines like "New Batman suit revealed and remember to vote Kerry!" or "King Kong pics just in and don't forget to send a donation to Michael Moore's next production!" I mean, come on. IF Harry wants to talk politics, that's cool...there's always more than enough people here to jump into those waters...but if that's the case, why doesn't Harry just start a side opinion column or particular thread for his views? Least then if you want to hear them, fine -- you check it out and can argue there. But its fucking insane when I click on a Herc coaxial news bit about 24 and get a Bush tirade, or click on a news article about SKY CAPTAIN only to get a end flourishing line from Harry that essentially says "Don't you all think sucking Michael Moore's cock is great? Mmmmm! I love his jizz and you will too!!!"
April 22, 2004, 3:31 a.m. CST
April 22, 2004, 3:32 a.m. CST
"P.S. To the Conservatives on this site, will you people please just shoot yourselves or something? Fuckin sheep." First of all I never said I was conservative. I just said Michael Moore is an admitted liar. I also didn't need to call others names or suggest death or use inflammitory language. But somehow you feel the need to...hmmm...I wonder what that says about you and if your fellow liberals like angry, maladjusted(sp?) children like yourself representing them with your obviously well thought out viewpoints like the one above in the face of criticism?Wow...that was a really long sentance... But really, please think before you respond... if more people on here shared there VIEWPOINTS and not just angry hateful remarks like the one above from IndustryKiller!. So much for the "tolerance" of the left...
April 22, 2004, 3:35 a.m. CST
I mean seriously, why fuck with an old man cuz he promotes the NRA, It wasn't his fucken fault you fucken tree hugger. That fat fuck should have been on top of the lousy ass parents those fucken kids had. not on the fact that they had access to the guns. And farenheit 9/11 will hopefully get him killed by asassination by people tired of conspiracy theories. I mean seriously if you can't trust this goverment or can't get OVER it then GET THE FUCK OUT. You brag about your right to free speech then attack the people who GIVE YOU THAT RIGHT. fuck moore, fuck his movie , and fuck that shameless plug harry just gave.
April 22, 2004, 3:42 a.m. CST
by Commando Cody
Gotta agree with someone above who noted that a September release doesn't necessarily bode well, but we'll see. If Paramount is soooooo hot on this movie or its franchise potential that they're now going to put on the whole publicity act of "We're going to wait to get it totally right because, gosh darn, we believe in this movie soooo much since it's so darn special" then why WOULDN'T they just hold it over 2 more months till Thanksgiving (or even Christmas) to better boost box office? I want to really, really like this one. I have high hopes for it. So I HOPE they don't screw it up. But I have to say I am concerned over how MUCH digital work is being done. I can understand giant robots in terms of cost cutting, but was it really THAT much cheaper to not build SOME of the core set pieces like...desks at the newspaper? Well, I'll keep my fingers crossed. Oh yeah, Michael Moore DOES suck. Give me a break, after some of the lies he's blantantly put into his films -- or the way he's manipulated things through editing that DIDN'T occur, but presented them as fact -- who can actually take him seriously as a documentary filmmaker? The man's a fucking joke. Too bad the Teamsters DIDN'T beat his ass backstage at the Oscars...
April 22, 2004, 3:43 a.m. CST
IM A DUMB FUCK
April 22, 2004, 3:44 a.m. CST
That last post was a little to retarded for my liking. I agree we should keep politics out of this site, for Christ's sake, everywhere else on the net is bloated with dumbasses who think they're right, let's keep one place free of this shit. By the by, I'm not looking forward to this film, they just went overboard with the special-effects. It brought back bad memories of Star Wars Ep II, and we all know how good THAT film was.
April 22, 2004, 3:47 a.m. CST
I never said I was refering to you nor did I say I was a fan of Michael Moore (I couldn't care less about him to be honest). Go ahead and assume all liberals are "maladjusted children" Halcyon (which doesn't help your "I never said I was conservative" case). Congratulations you just lowered yourself to my level. With that logic I guess it's safe to assume all conservatives are racist, gay-hating, socially rigid, censorship loving, manipulating, nationalists like Sean Hannity. What bothers me is not that conservatives bash Michael Moore but that many of them do it in the same breath as they quote just as proven liars such as Bill O'Reilly or drug addicts like Rush Limbaugh. In fact I think we would be doing ourselves a favor if we could get rid of all these bombastic fools, on the left and the right, so they can stop attempting to manipulate us with their half truths.
April 22, 2004, 3:49 a.m. CST
by Commando Cody
Well, if we're going to toss out Moore-like conspiracy theories, least that one makes sense. A long running, heated political argument thread increases the hits to the site...and thus generates ad revenue as everyone starts yelling back and forth and keeps continually posting. And you KNOW this thread is gonna jump in size over the next 24 hours between pro and con Moore people!
April 22, 2004, 4:04 a.m. CST
Right because governments are always so trustworthy. Let's just all trust our entire well being to the government. This country was founded on the idea of not trusting the government asshat. The only way to change for the better is to attempt to reform the system. It's an ever evolving process and that's the way it should be. Hell it's an ever evolving country. Governments by and large get more wrong than they do right and America is the closest to changing that provided we stop electing backwards thinking hicks who let their religion blind every facet of their policy. Why don't you ask the Chinese what happens when you let your government walk all over you.
April 22, 2004, 4:04 a.m. CST
by pogo on my own
I dont see much of a problem with Harry spewing his twisted politics in here. I would think that would be more honest than posting so called reviews of films from filmmakers he knows. That is far more sinister. that and moore is a dick
April 22, 2004, 4:06 a.m. CST
What, like Condi Rice saying 9/11 was just a little mix-up? *** "Go ahead and assume all liberals are 'maladjusted children' Halcyon" Don't worry, IndustryKiller, THEY WILL. There's nothing the Bushleaguers like better than constructing straw men to heroically dismantle. Worse, they can't just roll their eyes and move on when someone voices their opinion, like I do with the otherwise hilarious Dennis Miller. Noooo. They start to question that person's right TO SAY IT AT ALL. *** Now, back on topic: flapping wings on little fighter planes. Lame, or what? Otherwise, looks promising. They'll get my nine bucks. Especially if Jolie and THE TWINS put in an appearance...
April 22, 2004, 4:12 a.m. CST
What exactly did he lie about?
April 22, 2004, 4:13 a.m. CST
www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/ Check out the above link if you are at all interested in hearing Moore's position on his supposed distortions. I can't help but notice that many of those accusing Moore of falsifying the facts can't seem to say what those facts actually ARE (i.e. if he is lying about the number of gun deaths in the U.S. and abroad, then what are the actual numbers?). Right wing nutters (and no, I don't think this applies to any and all Republicans, so the more rational on the right can calm down) love to smear opponents by implication and association and often by outright lying. Statements like "everyone says he's a jerk and a liar" or "he admits he made stuff up" are great proof of his character deficiencies until you ask for actual examples or read up a bit to find just exactly when he admitted staging scenes or inventing "facts." Oops! Never happened. I'm not saying that Moore's films are perfect (they're not) or that he is (he clearly isn't, and even I have to admit noticing a bit of ego in some of his speeches), but would people at least put in some effort to check their facts before slinging the mud, please? As for SKY CAPTAIN, I find I am warming up to this movie considerably (I barely knew it existed until a couple of months ago). The retro look is being handled brilliantly (very Flash Gordon-esque...no, not the 70's movie, the seriels from the 30's and 40's). Is Angelina Jolie hot? Is a frog's ass water tight?
April 22, 2004, 4:15 a.m. CST
With the endless possibilities CGI can bring these days, the only limitation is the imagination. This is a whole new golden era of cinema we are living in folks. I'm always partial to looks over story. Hopefully we can get both.
April 22, 2004, 4:20 a.m. CST
Check this link out, a swedish film typhoon. Made the same way as sky captain but it started produktion long before. http://www.operafilm.com mvh Ola Paulakoski firstname.lastname@example.org
April 22, 2004, 4:45 a.m. CST
Cheers. Didn't know where to look. Sky Captain looks nice, sounds terrible, which is a shame. As for the politics, everyone said Bush would be a terrible President and he is. Sorry if that sounds trite, but what more can you say about the man.
April 22, 2004, 5 a.m. CST
by Commando Cody
Kudos, ZombieHunter. As far as I'm concerned, your post sums up Michael Moore as the fraud he is perfectly. So going back to movies -- the point of the site -- how come if they can make Sky Captain now via CGI with all it's art deco, pulp-inspired, Cliffhanger serial pacing WHERE THE HELL IS A STATE OF THE ART, BRAND NEW DOC SAVAGE FILM??? Now that's what I want to see!!!
April 22, 2004, 5:49 a.m. CST
the poster is right it seemed like a colorized computer game - not real. it will make $45 million if released in september, i dont think *minute* THE ROCKETEER crowd will go for it either, too outlandish
April 22, 2004, 6:36 a.m. CST
That is all.
April 22, 2004, 6:49 a.m. CST
MANOMANOMANOMAN! DOES THIS LOOK LIKE A BIG WINNER OR WHAT...NO MATTER WHEN IT RELEASED...I LOOK AT THIS AND I THINK OF ALL THSOE GREAT CLASSIC AWARD WINNING BLOCKBUSTER HITS LIKE "The Rocketeer" or "The Shadow" or "Daredevil" or "Krull" or even "The Phantom" WHICH CHANGED US ALL AND MADE THE WORLD SUCH A BETTER PLACE....I'LL BE IN LINE EARLY, CAMPED OUT AND DRESSED AS MY FAVORITE AEROPLANE AS I WAIT ALONG WITH ALL THE SMART MOVIE FANS WHO ARE JUST DYING TO SEE THIS ALONG WITH THE NEXT JEAN CLAUDE VAN DAMME MOVIE!!!! WOOOO!!!!!...And thus, can we give it Oscars now? - - - George, The 7th Chicken!!!!
April 22, 2004, 6:57 a.m. CST
Honestly, who gives a fuck about their opinion?
April 22, 2004, 7:20 a.m. CST
the thing to remember in America of today is....Everyone has an agenda. Everyone. A lot of what Michael Moore says is true, but he pushes it too far and ends up fabricating for sensationalism, just like everyone else. His detractors have their agenda and look for bits of his film to tear apart, which ARE there to find, but they end up going too far and fabricating half-truths as well, and a lot of the movie still stands. Do I love me some political satire? A glance at my user ID will confirm that, but my stance is to take everything, and I mean everything, presented in the media with a hunk o' salt, be it leftist or rightist.
April 22, 2004, 7:23 a.m. CST
It's great, really. It's like listening to a John Kerry speech. Instead of intelligently discussing the obvious lies and distortions the guy bases his work on, they attack the people who DO point them out. It makes for good headlines but it's not going to get you anywhere in the end. I mean it's no surprise, that is the liberal way. That's why liberal radio has and always will fail. Liberals lack the ability for intelligent, two way conversations. THey're good at putting opinions out there and avoiding the backlash. But they can't survive when they have to answer for what they do and say. Bowling for columbine was the biggest, most disgraceful piece of shit I've ever seen. The man spliced together footage from 8 different speeches to make a speech that NEVER HAPPENED. Oh well, since he claimed, after the fact, that "he assumed people would know that it wasn't all from the same speech", I guess that makes it all right huh? BULLSHIT. What about his "creative editing" to make Heston look like a racist and an idiot? It fit his agenda so why not. Even though Heston was one of the first and biggest supporters of the early civil rights movement in this country.. That's not a documentary. That's well planned political propaganda. Not only that, it's propaganda built on the deaths of some unfortunate kids in colorado. Moore should be ashamed of himself. Just as those who try to cover up for him and support him should be ashamed.
April 22, 2004, 7:31 a.m. CST
Here, in it's entirety, is all Harry said about dear Mr. Moore: "Thank god Michael Moore is bringing us FAHRENHEIT 9/11 early." *** For this little crime, they've now tortured the rest of with thousands of keystrokes of their tired rhetoric. Did they tell any French jokes? Dear lord, how they love the French jokes...everyone's yawning and checking their watches, but their dragging out the French jokes...wankers.
April 22, 2004, 7:42 a.m. CST
....is Harry's skinnier, older brother. That's the only reason Harry mentions his name in a article about a sci-fi flick.
April 22, 2004, 7:54 a.m. CST
Um, wouldn't pretty much the first day of statistics class teach you that under those circumstances the best course of action to take would be to do nothing at all? Every individual reform you undertook would have more of a chance of going wrong than of going right. Since you would also then have to try to reform your errors, and THOSE reforms would have more of a chance of going wrong than of going right [and so forth], you would create a parabolic curve of increasing wrongness over time. Yikes! Sounds like American history after McKinley. You have stumbled across a critical insight and you should start your PhD thesis today.
April 22, 2004, 7:57 a.m. CST
Pick up a camera, and start following him everywhere he goes, demanding he talk to you about shit. Show up at his office, every day. Knock on the door of his house at odd hours. Stand across the street from his house all the time waiting for him to come out. If he goes to a party, try to break in and see him. Why not? It's what HE does to people HE doesn't like, like GM executives. He should expect the same treatment from others. Oh, and when you're done doing that, do the same to Mike Wallace.
April 22, 2004, 8:36 a.m. CST
You certainly are a Big Dumb Ape. Like Bush, your middle initial is "D". I guess that means you're both retarded.
April 22, 2004, 8:40 a.m. CST
I would be first in line if somebody made a movie like that. "Michael and Me". sk
April 22, 2004, 8:41 a.m. CST
That's the style Moore uses. The truth isn't in the details, it's in the concepts. And if you want to call him a liar, let me ask you this: Where's the WMD's?
April 22, 2004, 8:43 a.m. CST
It's a little like saying "What do you know?" in a debate.
April 22, 2004, 8:46 a.m. CST
Much like everything for Walter is a nonsensical allegory for Vietnam, all things film somehow end up in a snarky bit of disdain for our current President. When Bush wins in November (and he will, particularly thanks to the Democrats own version of Bob Dole - John Kerry), I look forward to seeing Harry sulk. Or maybe he won't, claiming adherence to Shomer Shabbos. "George Bush can't get elected. That fucks up my plan." - Harry Knowles.
April 22, 2004, 8:55 a.m. CST
by Lost Skeleton
Oh, and I hate George W. Bush with a real fucking passion right now so please cut the political talk. It makes me more pissed off than usual.
April 22, 2004, 9:06 a.m. CST
by Lost Skeleton
Come on you conservative morons. You know he did! You know Iraq is a disaster. You know the Iraqis do not like occupation. You know we are spilling American blood for oil riches. You know that none of you conservative fucks who love bush are not willing to fight his war- because if you did, you would volunteer right now but you won't because you know this war is bullshit. Bush favors the rich and wants to make all his boys richer. We are taking our country back neo-cons. You lash out because you have fear. You know now that your great neo-conservative movement is flawed at best. We, as Americans, have never been held in such disdain around the world. We tried to conquer a poeple and we have failed because to conquer is not in our nature. I am a patriot and I am taking my beloved nation back in November. Kerry 2004 and "2" 6/30/04
April 22, 2004, 9:07 a.m. CST
I hate the Bush administration as much as the next clear-headed individual, but really, wtf does that have to do with Sky Captain? what a gratuitous slap to even throw in the comments about Michael Moore's next diatribe (though i will, of course, see that diatribe when it comes out... even if the man does misrepresent occasionally, at least he hasn't used misrepresentation to justify starting a war that's killed hundreds of American soldiers and thousands of Iraqis). Peace out.
April 22, 2004, 9:08 a.m. CST
by TheGinger Twit
April 22, 2004, 9:10 a.m. CST
IF ANYONE CAN GO OVER TO http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/ READ WHATS THERE, LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE, THEN STILL COME BACK AND SAY HE'S A LIAR, THEN THEY MUST BE ONE OF THE RIGHT WING, GUN TOTTING, ARAB BOMBING, THIRD WORLD CRUSHING FACISTS WHO ARE GOING OUT OF THEIR WAY TO MAKE UP LIES AND DISCREDIT HIM. HE'S AN EXCELLENT FILM MAKER TRYING HIS HARDEST TO SPREAD THE TRUTH ABOUT THE CRAZY COUNTRY HE COMES FROM AND LOVES. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH SPEAKING THE TRUTH UNLESS IT DAMAGES THE ONES WHO ARE TRYING TO HIDE IT. LONG LIVE MICHAEL MOORE. A ROLE MODEL FOR THE YOUTH OF TODAY. (ALL DONE WITH KINDNESS).
April 22, 2004, 9:28 a.m. CST
We need Kevin Spacey to cut off Gwyneth Paltrow's ugly head and have it shipped in a box (as in the movie "Se7en"). They can send it to England, because that leftist beotch HATES AMERICA and wants to live there anyway. She is the only reason I cringe about this movie. Listen to her whine and bitch in the trailer: "Can't anything ever be simple with you?" and watch her 'back seat driving' in Jude Law's airplane. I'd have to open the cockpit, invert the plane, and drop that bitch out. She is a piece of shit actress who has no place in a movie of this calibur. As for Michael Moore, Ray Bradbury should sue his ass for that movie title...the shameless, fat f*ck. HARRY, QUIT USING YOUR SITE AS A SOAPBOX.
April 22, 2004, 9:30 a.m. CST
by TheGinger Twit
How about instead of calling anyone who hates Republicans 'Leftist scumbags' you take the time to see that there are a couple other party groups to join. You're saying because I don't drink Coke then I must be a Pepsi drinker. Both you right and left Wings are of the same Bird. It means dick which side is in. The sooner you get the lawyers and millionaires out of congress and replace it with teachers, scholars, labour workers, our country is going to be a plutocracy, and damn anyone who doesn't toe the line. They'll be branded terrorists and bombing shall commence shortly. There's nothing so great about america. Or your stinking fucking movies!
April 22, 2004, 9:31 a.m. CST
Are they nucking futs?!!! September is a terrible month to release this! Apart from the mood-killer that is the start of a new school year for the kid and teen audience, it's also a month when the media will be covering 9/11 memorials, reving us up for the Presidential Election, and moviegoers are recovering from a summer of let downs. There's no energy left to get *that* excited about the latest event movie then. Harry would go crazy sure, but Harry is already sold on this movie, he's not a normal moviegoer. I could see releasing this in December--after the Presidential election and people start to get in the holiday movie craze. But September? I'll bet they'll push it back by anther two months before the end of the summer.
April 22, 2004, 9:44 a.m. CST
Better to hold it back until June 2005, where it might have a chance.
April 22, 2004, 9:45 a.m. CST
Think about it. If they're going ahead with this movie, they better to it right.
April 22, 2004, 9:53 a.m. CST
The conservative point of view is a dying breed. Sorry to break it to you. The stiff "morals" of your party are just no longer relevant. The Racism, gay-hating, abstinance preaching, anti-abortion, censorship loving, Jesus freak ideals of the far right conservative are slowly slipping away. In fact i can't imagine what it's like to fight this losing battle. Abortion will always be here, gay people will eventually be allowed to marry whether it's tomorrow or 20 years from now, contraception as opposed to abstinance will be taught, women will make just as much money as men in the workplace, and we'll be able to do pretty much anything we want on TV or radio and the parents will actually have to take responsibility for what their kids watch (a frightening concept to the conservative soccer mom). I mean hell you guys are even against stem cell research (which will also eventually come to be a status quo). That's basically like saying you're against crippled people walking and the cure for parkinsons. With each passing generation organized religion becomes less and less a part of our lives and the Catholic church will have to keep making more and more concessions to keep themselves relevant. In a 100 years they'll probably be making apologies for opposing gay marriage because they want the gay supporters, or rather their money. Sure there will be the occasional religious push when something like the Passion comes around but as soon as the media stop paying attention to it it will go away. So lay on conservatives but as the days go by so does the releveancy of your argument.
April 22, 2004, 10:01 a.m. CST
by Judge Doom
April 22, 2004, 10:07 a.m. CST
Don't hold the Bush-led government up as a paragon of virtue since: 1) They were saying Saddam Hussein was directly connected to the 9/11 attack when he wasn't; 2) They refuse to admit that there was even a TEENY WEENY chance that they handled the Invasion of Iraq improperly; and 3) They lied about the existence of Weapons of Mass Destruction which, if I recall, was one of the main reasons he got the public support for the war. The long and short of it is this: Bush declared war on another country because he PERSONALLY BELIEVES it's 'his' job to make the world a safer place. And, if you listen to his speeches, he almost seems to suggest that all his Presidential choices are dictated by his relationship with God...and that's pretty fucking scary.
April 22, 2004, 10:20 a.m. CST
i`m really looking forward to see this one although i don`t like the idea of actors just playing in front of a blue screen. these pics look really nice...especially that kinda softened creamy(i know that sounds a bit crazy) tone is cool. as far as michael moore is concerned....i don`t understand some of these guys here. i mean you americans make someone like rush limbaugh a successful guy who
April 22, 2004, 10:38 a.m. CST
But those aren't Michael Moore's issues.
April 22, 2004, 10:43 a.m. CST
April 22, 2004, 10:49 a.m. CST
I've met Micheal Moore, Micheal Moore signed my book. Micheal Moore talked to me. Micheal Moore is a nice guy. As to Farenheit 911, "BRING IT ON" Oust that abomination in the white house. As to "freedom of speech" , read the Patriot act people. It's 2004, not 1984. But how can one tell with that legislation?
April 22, 2004, 10:54 a.m. CST
...Right down to the bloated pomposity and self-righteous hypocrisy.
April 22, 2004, 11:02 a.m. CST
At least this is only being delayed by a few weeks. Those bastards at new Line have put Blade Trinity off until 9th December. As I'm in the U.K. I probably wont get to see it until 2005. BOLLOCKS!
April 22, 2004, 11:03 a.m. CST
That was my first posting too
April 22, 2004, 11:12 a.m. CST
And so are their parties' mouthpieces. One poster was correct - Moore and Limbaugh are equivalents. And as for this notion that Bush is exacting a personal vendetta - it's true...gotta save his daddy's face by ousting Hussein. However, he is not some conspiratorially Illuminated Machiavelli, spinning the world on his personal axis from his tower over humanity with his shadowy Brotherhood. All presidents work on the info their advisors and intelligence sources give. The advisors seek to give the pres what he wants, insomuch as the pres will give the military what THEY want ("I'll scratch your back...etc"). i.e., Clinton wasn't a warmonger, but he was a shifty little sneak who liked to seem more genteel and homespun in public. Thus, most things went on covertly and we never knew about the ok to axe Bin Laden and company or the info that al-Qaeda (sp?) was an impending threat. Bush is a warmongering Hawk, therefore all he gets (and wants) is anything that will help him topple Hussein and make $ for his friends with defense contracts. The Pentagon, the CIA, and the NSA are the ones forming and shaping the intelligence fed to the pres. They are also the ones who will act on said intelligence.
April 22, 2004, 11:19 a.m. CST
by Lance Rock
April 22, 2004, 11:19 a.m. CST
I understand the whole geekboy thing. But are you cats REALLY clinching your left nut to peep this bloodless cutesy wootesy star studded Rocketeer-ish brown egg from an unimaginative asshole? I know what to do with this film if it ever shares the room with me- take a wild dump on it and slap it for breathing. Oh No! Hold the press! Sky Captain's been moved back! Sky Captain's been moved back! Quick, Robert!!! Hold my penis!!! LOL
April 22, 2004, 11:21 a.m. CST
Thank you for sharing these beautiful shots with us. Gosh, the first one of Jude is gorgeous, but all of them together lets us know how amazing this film is going to be. I just know it. I feel it in me! I have been following "Sky Captain" from the very start, and my summer actually revolved around it. Everything I'm going to do was like -- that's about 2 weeks before "Sky Captain" or that's the same day as "Sky Captain" comes out. *sniff*, now I have to adjust. But I know that they want this film to be as perfect as possible, and it's tricky, so I rather they take the time 'til it's right than release it before it is. I am still faithfully part of the legion and will wait and anticipate with the rest of you, staring at dreamy pics of Jude during the interval between now and then, *g*.
April 22, 2004, 11:21 a.m. CST
isn't he in Halloween?
April 22, 2004, 11:22 a.m. CST
This movie has got me drooling more than Harry at a Krispy Kreme grand opening. As big fans of 30s-retro-futurist-sci-fi (we're with you, Harry), my girlfriend and I are completely sold on this film - premise, casting, visuals...it's all there for us. Harry's right about WOTW - it needs to be a period piece...but it'll probably get changed to a US location istead of England, which will suck but is better than some contemporary setting a la ID4.
April 22, 2004, 11:33 a.m. CST
by I Shot Kennedy
I just watched the commercial for "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow" and even though I had seen it before I feel the need to comment on it. MY GOD does this film look like it will suck the shit out of Hitler
April 22, 2004, 11:34 a.m. CST
Hey kids, there actually is someone doing a documentary on Michael Moore, and this is where I hope 40 million goes, for this film: www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com SUPPORT IT!
April 22, 2004, 11:36 a.m. CST
Michael Moore is a liar and his Oscar for best documentary should be taken from him as Bowling for Columbine was a work of Fiction. As far as WMD, I'm sick of people saying the President lied. The entire world thought he had them. The French, The Russians, The UN, John Francois Kerry voted for war against Iraq. You looney lefties need to stop listening to CNN and figure out the truth. And I'm no Bush supporter, I'm just sick of this lie.
April 22, 2004, 11:51 a.m. CST
I think maybe you forgot to take your meds again. It's becoming obvious that any "rules" here about offensive posting are lip service, at best.
April 22, 2004, 11:56 a.m. CST
Really dudes, can you tell me with a straight face that Bush had done anything to advance the cause of American conservatism? Was the world this mad at us when Bush's dad, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, or even Nixon was in power? Yeah, that's what I thought. If you had any self respect you'd ask Little George to pull an LBJ and take a walk. Or else I fear that he and the Republican Party (and with it the American conservative movement) will go the way of the American Communist Party: down the toilet. Not that I would mind, but don't tell me I didn't warn ya.
April 22, 2004, 11:58 a.m. CST
by Gul Shah
On the morning of 9/11, George Tenet said something like, "I sure hope it isn't that guy in Minnesota." (Meaning Zacharias Massaoui) Bush said something like, "Gee, that's one bad pilot." If that doesn't illustrate the gulf between the intelligence services and the "Commander in Chief," I don't know what does. Oh, and yes, Michael Moore is way over the top at times, but his thesis from BFC--that America is gun crazy because it feeds on the irrational fears peddled by the media--is essentially correct.
April 22, 2004, 12:01 p.m. CST
is it just me or is anyone else getting really tired of all the CG in movies today? i understand the need for a Spiderman or Xmen flick (people can't walk up walls after all) but it just seems like filmmakers are getting lazy. "well, it would take an extra week and 200 extras to make that shot, so we'll just hav ILM scrape together something digitally!" give me the old days, like in the original star wars where Lucas had actors dress up like aliens instead of making them CG. phaw. the concept of Sky Captain sounds cool but all the over-the-top CG kinda takes away my appetite. oh, and not to stir up the hornets nest anymore. but I'm a conservative Christian who listens to Rush Limbaugh. i have a gay cousin whom i haven't met in 15 years primarily because he's in New York and i'm not. if we right-wing wackos can't bash Moore without listening or watching his stuff, neither should any of you leftists bash Rush without listening to at least *one* of his shows. Fair is Fair, isn't it?
April 22, 2004, 12:01 p.m. CST
by Barry Egan
I read elsewhere that this was being moved becuase Sony moved Spider-man up to the 30th of June. Paramount didn't want to only have 4 days before Spider-man takes all the boxoffice. Plus, I'll bet this movie sucks. Movies like this are almost always all visual and no story/character.
April 22, 2004, 12:11 p.m. CST
by Barry Egan
April 22, 2004, 12:12 p.m. CST
by Barry Egan
that Paramount is moving this not because they want the movie to have more time in post but rather to avoid Spider-man.
April 22, 2004, 12:18 p.m. CST
Sky Captain's not going to get the teenage boys in....it's gonna bomb.
April 22, 2004, 12:24 p.m. CST
Did anyone watch his show on Bravo The Awful Truth? That ep where Karen Duffy took the bus of old people to a nursing home to teach the residents karate? "I'm not done with my food yet!" "That water's too hot!" and then they would chop people. It was so funny. Nearly peed myself laughing.
April 22, 2004, 12:26 p.m. CST
It sucks big time about pushing the movie back. I've been looking foreward to this since I saw the first trailer. Sucks.
I'm about as far left as one can get, and even I am left with a bad taste after watching Michael Moore's crap. It has nothing to do with politics, but propaganda. Regardless of how much you agree or disagree with Michael Moore's personal views, when you sit down and watch one of his movies, you have just subjected yourself to an hour and a half of 100% manipulative propaganda masquerading as a documentary.
April 22, 2004, 12:33 p.m. CST
by darth sars
does anyone have a link where i can find more of Fleischer's work? after looking at this trailer, i've fallen in love with this type of style... would love to see more. Thanks!!
April 22, 2004, 12:39 p.m. CST
April 22, 2004, 12:43 p.m. CST
...and screw the flapping wings. I'm well over it. OK with me if they have to push back the release date for better quality. Jolie still looks unbelivable though...who cares?
April 22, 2004, 12:47 p.m. CST
Everyone...we will all get along and we can achieve harmony all over the world and in this talkback when you accept the fact that I AM THE ONE WHO IS RIGHT!!!!! IT IS ME THAT IS CORRECT AND THAT IS THE WAY IT IS!!!! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!!!! AND YOU WILL ALL AGREE WITH ME!!! THOSE WHO DO NOT AGREE WITH ME ARE DISGUSTING WORTHLESS COMMUNIST CHILD MOLESTING TRAITORS WHO NEED TO DIE IN A VERY FIERY DEATH AND HAVE YOUR ASHES BLOWN TO HELL SO THEY NO LONGER INFECT THE EARTH!!!! BECAUSE EVERYTHING I SAY IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL KNOW IT!!! SO WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU EVEN EXPRESSING AN OPINION OF YOUR OWN??? DO YOU NOT HAVE ANY RESPECT FOR YOURSELF ANYMORE...YOU MORONIC RETARDED ASSHOLES???? FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOU!!!! IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN ABOUT ME GODDAMMIT!!!! ME ME ME ME ME ME I I I I I I I I I !!!!! NOW GET ON BOARD AND PRAISE ME IF YOU HAVE ANY SENSE YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKERS!!!! I HAVE THE TALKING STICK!!!! I HAVE THE TALKING STICK!!!!!...And thus, what are we talking about? - - - George, The 7th Chicken!!!!
April 22, 2004, 1:04 p.m. CST
Is so it won't open against Spider-Man 2 you retards! THAT would have been box office suicide. They have more time to promote it now and it won't open against the juggernaut that is spidey.
April 22, 2004, 1:08 p.m. CST
April 22, 2004, 1:21 p.m. CST
I can wait till the next polar shift for this movie, provided they make it as good as they can. Harry, you really need to give Giovanni Ribisi a second chance. He's not THAT great, but he's not Freddie Prinze Jr..
April 22, 2004, 1:31 p.m. CST
...IN MY MOUTH! Try to say THAT through a row of broken teeth. And here I am, alone with a shaven turkey.
April 22, 2004, 1:59 p.m. CST
This motherfucker takes a stab at American companies (and capitalism in general) at every turn, then has the nerve to outsource to Canada. God, why can't he just die already? http://www.drudgereport.com/rcmm.htm
April 22, 2004, 2:08 p.m. CST
The problems will not go away. If anything they will get worse. If we leave Iraq right now like so many of you want, the country falls into TOTAL chaos and will become a breeding ground for terrorists. It is almost a self fufilling prophecy. We supposedly went to Iraq to fight terror but we will create even more if we leave now. Also, these terrorists will still hate America and everyone in it even if we met their demands they will kill us. Why? Because that is what they do. We are fucked either way so I say we have to keep it up over there in Iraq( even though I don't like it) or it is going to get real bad real fuckin fast.
April 22, 2004, 2:27 p.m. CST
April 22, 2004, 2:30 p.m. CST
Gotta admit I think Sky Captain looks lame. Just too toony/reto/goofy. Want to like it ...just can't. And if theyMake Princess of Mars this kind of cheese retro- someoone will have to be shot.
April 22, 2004, 2:35 p.m. CST
Is a JOKE. I actually love that he's out there because he basically makes a mockery of all his cracked positions (which can sound somewhat beleivable when spoken by less of a crackpot with too much cholesteral clogging his brain). Halycon seven (an apparent left leaning young man) said it best: "I agree with alot of his views, but he is so freakin' dishonest in his "documentaries" that I think he does more harm than good". - Yup thats why I love him- He's good for laughs. and " I don't know why anyone takes him seriously. Great documentary maker, but only if you don't mind a huge chunk of what he ways are (self-admitted) stretches of truth or plain old lies! Its all out there...go look for it before you start yelling at me..." - Too true, but most peole DON'T take him seriously, just those who think with thier emotions rather than thier minds."
April 22, 2004, 2:35 p.m. CST
April 22, 2004, 2:38 p.m. CST
Advocate Michael Moore may have released a book titled DUDE, WHERE'S MY COUNTRY?, and may have vaulted to stardom documenting worker's rights and corporate malfeasance in Flint, Michigan, but that has not stopped Moore from outsourcing his website design and servers -- to companies based in Canada! Cannes-bound Moore, the great protector of the U.S. working class, has outsourced the design of his Web site to a foreign company in Canada, records show. PLANK -- based in Montr
April 22, 2004, 2:38 p.m. CST
"To the Conservatives on this site, will you people please just shoot yourselves or something? Fuckin sheep". - I basically watch you get logically bitch slapped whenever you comment on politics, and this is your "thought". Dude yer a joke, you are unable to back your views with logic... "fucking sheep" indeed. (Although I guess one a good note for you, if all the conservatives on this site "shot themselves" you would actually be afforded the opportunity to win a one sided arguement instead of being the receipient of that kind of beating for a change)
April 22, 2004, 2:41 p.m. CST
But I guess I must have. Seven times, too. Have I ever told you all how much I loved Matrix: Reloaded? It has so many layers, so much wisdom. The metaphors alone, I tell you - ah, but the world will catch up eventually. I'll just let you wait until then. I particularly like the way the Wachowskis explain the cap on Neo's powers. You wouldn't think they would be into exposition like that, but those kidders - they're just the best.
April 22, 2004, 2:48 p.m. CST
April 22, 2004, 3:07 p.m. CST
It is after all an extension of the will of the people isn
April 22, 2004, 3:10 p.m. CST
So you think that everything except the actual people is CGI? I doubt it....I've seen the trailer for this at the theatre and while I think it looks fun, there are lots of moans and groans in the audience. This film will flop because most stupid Americans have no imagination. I'm an American and like sci-fi, but most people do not unless it is very basic and retarded.
April 22, 2004, 3:14 p.m. CST
Sad, but it's good to see I already haunt your thoughts. I own you motherfucker, your all mine.
April 22, 2004, 3:17 p.m. CST
"In fact I think we would be doing ourselves a favor if we could get rid of all these bombastic fools, on the left and the right, so they can stop attempting to manipulate us with their half truths". - What a fucking liar - at least have the balls to stand up as the extreme bombastic tool YOU ARE- you wrote this about 10 posts removed from your "All conservatives on this site are sheep and should shoot themselves" comment. ----- You make Shawn Hannity look like a middle of the road man of reason by comparison (I NEVER heard him say anything as Bombastic as the corner you just painted your-SELF into).
April 22, 2004, 3:21 p.m. CST
<quote>P.S. To the Conservatives on this site, will you people please just shoot yourselves or something? Fuckin sheep.</quote> ******** Fuck you asshole. Anyone that disagrees with you is just a fuckin sheep and cannot think for themselves? You are the definition of arrogant and closed-minded. Maybe you'll choke on the cum of your pinko buddies and we won't have to listen to this tripe anymore. You are fucking pathetic.
April 22, 2004, 3:30 p.m. CST
Methinks the Bushlickers protest too much... Comment: Here, in it's entirety, is all Harry said about dear Mr. "Moore: "Thank god Michael Moore is bringing us FAHRENHEIT 9/11 early." *** For this little crime, they've now tortured the rest of with thousands of keystrokes of their tired rhetoric. Did they tell any French jokes? Dear lord, how they love the French jokes...everyone's yawning and checking their watches, but their dragging out the French jokes...wankers". - If you insist: "what smells worse, a Frenchman, or the bullshit Michael Moore invents for gullible tools? Answer: Michael Moore's Bullshit, because body oder can t compete with industiral Waste. hahahahaha - Loser.
April 22, 2004, 3:33 p.m. CST
I disagree with him on a few things (he's spending too much, immigration, etc.) but for the most part he is a straight shooter. He may not be the best speaker in the world, but fuck, neither am I. I can't speak for shit in front of 50 people, much less 50 million on TV.
April 22, 2004, 3:34 p.m. CST
April 22, 2004, 3:37 p.m. CST
Here's the latest nugget of shit straight off his website:----"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win."------No fucking joke. He actually said that. Yeah, the Fallujah are just like the minutemen of the American revolution! Except the American revolution wasn't targeting schoolkids and trying to instate a fascist fundie Islam government. I cannot describe how utterly disgusted I am by this statement. I guess it's fine to portray a bunch of murdering savages in a good light as long as they're attacking the US. Moore is beyond revolting. *NOTE: I'm talking about the Fallujah when I mention murdering savages, not Islam in general.*
April 22, 2004, 3:38 p.m. CST
Damn Fluffy, you do have some excellent moments. I tip my cap to you on that one. --- Also love your movie Idea, Damn I'D pay double to watch that as it would be the guarenteed funniest film of the year.
April 22, 2004, 3:39 p.m. CST
I don't even have the energy to bitch slap your lauaghble post at this time, but just one piece of advice: go look up big complicated words like "Conquer" before you attempt to use them in a sentece. See you when you graduate from grade school.
April 22, 2004, 3:41 p.m. CST
April 22, 2004, 3:42 p.m. CST
by Fatal Discharge
it was Canadian and French companies that enabled the film to be made. So hiring a couple of Canadians to design his webpage now makes him a traitor to his own country? LMFAO. It's so pathetic that Republicans resort to impeaching a sitting President for having an affair and lying about it (after having tried to pin everything else on him including murder in the past) just so they can get back in power. Then they turn around and wage war on a country based on false information of WMD, and when they don't find any suddenly resort to "well Saddam was a bad man who deserved to be ousted" as if they can change their reasons for war after the fact. Who are the hypocrits now? Anyhooo, Sky Captain's move to the dumping ground of bad movies that is the month of September is a VERY bad sign. There might indeed be a delay to finish effects but if Paramount was confident they had a hit, they would've held it until the Holidays. Only 2 films have opened with more than $30 Million in September - Rush Hour and Sweet Home Alabama. And Pssst....The Rocketeer sucked and lost money I'm sure too.
April 22, 2004, 3:42 p.m. CST
As Michael Jefferson would say, some of you poopyheads are just so IGNORANT.
April 22, 2004, 3:49 p.m. CST
"The conservative point of view is a dying breed. Sorry to break it to you". - Boy, recent Land-slide congressional and senate victories, and taking back the Presidency- so conservatives control all 3 parts of electable government AND all in less than a decade???- that's DYING to you???? - Dude you must make yourself laugh when you smell the busllshit you write! THAT WAS BEAUTIFUL!!!
April 22, 2004, 4:03 p.m. CST
False info about WMD? You are fucking kidding right? Shall we run thru it again? Let's see, he used them in the 80's, and possibly even in '91 (GWS anyone?). He defied inspections for 7 years, then threw the inspectors out. When inspections finally resume again, he refuses to give inspectors unfettered access, as demanded by the oh-so-holy UN, instead making the inspector wait days before letting them in. President Bill Clinton several times in the mid-late 90's talked about Saddam and his biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons programs, even calling them a threat to the United States, and again in 2002. Hillary Clinton talked about the threat of Saddam Hussein in 2002. Madeliene Albright, Sandy Berger, John F'in Kerry, Ted Kennedy - the Democrat All-Stars... ALL of them in one way or another have said that Saddam HAD WMD, was a threat to the US and our allies, and urged some form of action against Saddam, whether it be in '98 or the most recent war. Bill Clinton, the man that destroyed the CIA intelligence gathering capability in the 90's, relied on that intelligence in '98, when he said that Iraq did have chem and bio, as well as an active nuje program. WHERE HAVE WE HEARD ALL THIS SHIT BEFORE???? Oh, but it is OK when the fucking Dems say it, huh?
April 22, 2004, 4:06 p.m. CST
Because Bush doesn't do shit while in Texas, right? Much of his staff isn't there? He has no video or any other links back to the White House? Whoa, wait a minute. I thought Ted "drunk driver" Kennedy said that (paraphrased) "he cooked up the war against Iraq down in Texas." So he must have been doing something!!!
April 22, 2004, 4:13 p.m. CST
with liberal pussies and rightist dinosaurs...please oh please, where is my world of tomorrow?..BTW, Rush and Michael are nothing but entertainers, and should be enjoyed only on that level. Anything else is peeing into the mouths of the dead.
April 22, 2004, 4:21 p.m. CST
Stop using facts against the poor liiberals on this site. Let them think Bush INVENTED the intelligence about WMD- REALLY! It all came from him!!! - When you point out the obvious you ruin liberal fantasy-versionos of realy- and that is NOT GOOD. Taking them out of their dream states may send them running back to their bongs and needles to get back that "Fantasy feelin'" ---You SIR are personsonally respnsible for any drug abuse from these tweezers. Please stop endangering their health IMMEDIATELY.
April 22, 2004, 4:26 p.m. CST
... I'll try and conform to the party line next time. Bush made up the intelligence about WMD. Bush made up the intelligence about WMD, and no facts can prove otherwise. OK, I think I got it now. DAMN IT, I HATE WHEN I MESS UP LIKE THAT!
April 22, 2004, 4:27 p.m. CST
you and all those bitching about Harry including political comments on his website need to concider this: Freedom of speech. He has the right to make his opinion known. If he wants to use his site to do this then fine, he has the RIGHT to. And he doesn't HAVE to put them in a seperate section. That's what a comercial site would do-- if the companie behind it dared make their political views known-- because the companie wants to be liked by everyone so they can make as much money as possible. Well, if you haven't noticed, this is not that kind of site. And I hope Harry doesn't change that just because some people don't like it. By the way, why the hell does reading someone else's political views by accident upset you? I haven't read much beyond Big Dumb Ape's post, so I'm sorry if my points were already made.
April 22, 2004, 4:31 p.m. CST
by Fatal Discharge
Don't know why I bother responding to someone who resorts to childish name calling but I guess it's the norm for this site anyway. How many WMD were found in Iraq? When they say "there is no doubt" they have them as a basis for going to war I would assume they would have definite proof. Passing the blame on to previous administrations is laughable...Bush and his guys fucked up, they should take the responsibility. Setting the dangerous precedent of a pre-emptive war based on bad intelligence will have repercusions for years to come.
April 22, 2004, 4:31 p.m. CST
I am only interested in the health of the young liberals (I don't think they should generally play with logic or sharp objects either). - It took a big man to admit you were being reckless. I appreciate it.
April 22, 2004, 4:36 p.m. CST
You ignored the point of my post when you talk about the intelligence not leading to war under Clinton. That is a separate argument. Fatal-whatever said Bush lied about WMD. I told him he's full of it, because the Dems had the same intelligence Bush had, and were sufficiently convinced that he had them and had active programs. Regarding CIA, just because I say it doesn't make it fact. How about the Director of the CIA? How about the National Security Advisor? But they are just partisans, I can hear the argument now. How much funding did Tenet say was lost in the 90's? Billions? How many fewer agents and assets were there in the late 90's due to the cuts? How badly did the separation of CIA/FBI resources affect investigations?
April 22, 2004, 4:39 p.m. CST
... is that right? Did Clinton lie in '98? Did Hillary lie in the months prior to the war? Are all of them complete liars?
April 22, 2004, 4:43 p.m. CST
Last night after we "spoke" I was eating some tofu and polishing my crystal collection, when suddenly the cell phone rang and it was Richard Gere calling to tell me about this great new Yani .mp3 he downloaded on his Mac, and I was reaching down to pick up my cell phone from under its pile of old copies of Mother Jones, and I hit my head on a wooden statue I picked up at the African Primitive Art festival. Ordinarily this would make me cry out "Harrumph" and I would need to stop for a few moments to find my inner quiet and remind myself that there IS no statue, but this time it jolted me into a state of higher awareness, where all of the beautiful and profound truths revealed in Reloaded and Revolutions suddenly were made clear to me in a blinding flash of insight that hit me like a whole case of Silk. I released all of the important Truths you were trying to communicate to me, and I entered a state of bliss. Of course, I certainly wouldn't want any of these vulgar talkbackers to have access to these profound insights, since they have to be earned by effort, and if they aren't willing to meditate for hours on the paradoxes involved [or at least to hit themselves in the head with a tribal statue or mask] then I certainly am not going to help them. Nopesies - my lips are sealed.
April 22, 2004, 4:43 p.m. CST
"Once again, someone states something and thus makes it fact. I know Bush is your daddy that can do no wrong. Hell, he stated in a press conference that he has made no mistakes". ---With fact gathering skills like yours it's obvious where you stand- Bush did NOT say he "made no mistakes" quite the OPPOSITE his quotes were very nearly (I am not even going to bother getting the exact quotes, because your quote is just to obvioulsy as WRONG as it gets) "I am sure I did make mistakes, but given the information I had, and decision I made based on it, I cant think of one now" Followed later by "I don't want to imply I haven't made mistakes, I am SURE I have" ================= "So you believe it because he said it". ----Said what that he makes mistakes? So I take it that you deny he is telling the truth and you think he has never made one? ============== As for Democrats stating that Iraq had WMDs-- Well, it didn't lead to a war now, did it? No, because the Dems (basing their statements on similar data) didn't feel the need to remove Saddam with the same sense of urgency as Bush. - Go study WWII and why it happened/what SHOULD have been done to prevent it- and the results of NOT doing this- then come back with theories on how inaction is better. I already went into great detail on this 2 months ago and won't bother re-teaching the past to another person who doesn't understand how dictators truly become dangerous. ===== "Because Bush said they were an impending and gathering threat. Lie". - So did Clinton did he lie too? =========== "Clinton dismantled the CIA's intelligence gathering techniques? You said it, so it becomes fact. Although no one will corroborate this". - Uh you need to look into this one a teesy bit more. ============= "Even when Clinton was defending himself against the witch-hunt, he still managed to run a gov't that foiled the LAX millenium bombing". -- And managed to do NOTHING against an Al Quaida who ALREADY would have taken out the WTC if they planted the bomb correctly (oh wait, he launched a couple cruise missiles- way to protect tyhe county jackass). Hence allowing them to reqrioup and plan AGAIN leading to 9/11. (By the way the Impeachment WAS STUPID and baseless- I do agree with you on that one point)
April 22, 2004, 4:44 p.m. CST
Is there no possibility whatsoever that the weapons were there, and that Saddam had months to move them while the US was dicking around with the UN? No possibility at all?
April 22, 2004, 4:57 p.m. CST
OK what the hell DID Meleractor "say to you? After your 1st Matrix post I actually thought you had a brain fart and DID like the follow up Matrix "films"- not that I'd hold that against ya. But what the hell, this sounds too interesting to pass up. POST IT.
April 22, 2004, 4:59 p.m. CST
by Fatal Discharge
When you show satellite photos of buildings to the U.N. and say we know they are there and then postwar go and check them and find that they were for totally different uses, I'd say that's fucked up.
April 22, 2004, 5:04 p.m. CST
Come on now, I explained what I meant. That date was indeed a target date for me and everything about "Sky Captain", I've been wanting to find out. This film looks fantastic and the the way it originated, what it promises, these are good things in the world of cinema. I think so anyway. At any rate, now I'll just have to adjust my timing when I speak or write. No need to be snarly. :)
April 22, 2004, 5:13 p.m. CST
So what happened to the weapons that were there in the 80's and 90's? What happened to the weapons that were there in '98? What happened? And in buildings where weapons are stored, there might not be a residue if the weapons are sealed. Oh, and DougCrane - FUCK YOU. When you start talking about people that disagree with you being indoctrinated like terrorists, you show your fucking arrogance and stupidity. "Oh noes, you don't think like me! You must be too stupid to form your own opinion, otherwise you'd share my opinions. Because my opinion, is the only correct opinion." The conservatives that you hate so much seem to be more open-minded than you. Granted there are a few that are trolls, but... they act like you! Troll.
April 22, 2004, 5:19 p.m. CST
... fucking bastards that love freedom of speech, as long as you agree with them. What's next Doug? Round up the conservatives and kill 'em all cuz they are "indoctrinated like terrorists"?
April 22, 2004, 5:21 p.m. CST
"So indoctrinated that the only way to deal with you is ignore you or kill you". -- Yeah I'm so "indoctriated" in right wing propaganda that I think the impeachment was ridiculous and state as much -all the way back in time around 5 minutes ago- guess I'm a demagogue if I dont agree with everything you think even though you have no logic behind most of your beleifs". ----- You are correct though, the only way for YOU to deal with me is to ignore or kill me- cause you sure as hell can't out-debate me. (Well I giess you could admit you are wrong, but demagoguery is a bit harder to overcome than cocaine addiction, so I guess that aint happening anytime soon). ================== "So Bush says, "I'm sure I made mistakes" and then...doesn't ever give an example" --- And your point IS? YOU said Bush CLAIMED HE NEVER MADE MISTAKES- THIS IS A LIE and 100% WRONG. Just because he did not give you a laundry list does not mean he claims to be perfect (which he CLEARLY stated was NOT the case). ALL that it IMPLIES (and he roundabout said) by not giving a list is merely that the major deceisions that came to mind in the 20 seconds he had to reply to that question were not mistakes based on the information he had at the time-and that is TRUE- so what is your point again hmmmm? ================== "Kind of like saying "I'm sure I directed a movie" then when someone asks you what movie, you say, "I can't think of one." You basically exposed the man in a lie just there. Kudos!" ---- OR like saying I ate last Tuesday, but I can't remember what I ate- I GUESS I MUST NOT HAVE EATEN!!! - You are a SLUETH! Dude, your logical display is mind numbing- like novacain. ===================== "If Clinton said Saddam was an impending gathering danger, then he too was lying". --- He did say so, and he was not lying, he was basing the statement on the information he had - a small concept you don't seem to get in the black and white 3rd grade novel you seem to be living in. (unless of course you are asserting Clinton would lie about such a thing because HE was a war monger too) Wow this gets deeper all the time- in both senses of the word). ===================== "But like I said before, Bush ran a campaign on domestic issues (and he's doing a bang-up job on that)" -- actually he has done an excellent job on donestic issues, thanks for agreeing.--- Unfortunatley you seem to ALSO be implying that should have REMAINED his MAIN FOCUS despite a lil' ol event called 9/11. Maybe no politician should react to tradgedies and attacks on the country becsue they didn't forsee them back when they were campaigning. "and promised that he wouldn't enter into nation building. Hmm, looks like an optional war led to just that. Lie". --- THERE IT IS you got his mistake- he should NEVER have ruled out nation building- his own advisors told him that was a bad position- and I agree- had he not pressed for a demcoratic Iraq I would citing this as a MAJOR mistake (Guess you would have preferred he stuck to the guns of our past presidents and installed a puppet regime instead- BRILLIANT!). All he did here was change his mind for the BETTER- you want to assume he ALWAYS intended to do this fine- although lying about it never HELPED him in any way, so there is no motive based reason to think he'd lie about it.
April 22, 2004, 5:35 p.m. CST
by Big Dumb Ape
Great defense of Moore. And typical fucked up liberal logic that wants things both ways -- so long as it pleases you. So let's get this righ: It's ok for Moore to LIE and DISTORT facts (details) if a greater good is achieved by making his overal point (the concept.) Yet THEN you turn right around and ask "Where are the WMD?" which would be a detail, and if someone were to say the war in Iraq was justified as a concept by hitting at a key spawning ground for Mid East terrorism THEN you'd say "No, no! We must go by only details! You can't bend the truth with a general concept! That's too vague and misleads people!" And you call me a retard? What a fucking mental midget you must be. Go see your doctor and have your shock therapy treatments up. You clearly need more voltage sparking between your pitiful brain synapses so you can form an actual THOUGHT...
April 22, 2004, 5:35 p.m. CST
"Hey, man. I didn't mean to hurt you. We were just playing and I got carried away. I'm sorry". ---- Wait Is athta ALL YOU GOT? After the logical ass kicking I just laid on you? Really? wow that was easy- there was sone hurt going on(and it aint over see below), but none of it was felt by me. ================ "But just a tip: You see how I never call people bad names? ----- "It's like trying to reason with a pitbull or terrorist". oops-- Oh Im sorry did I just DIRECTLY call you on your bullshit? It's because I respect other views, no matter how determined people are to not look at things accurately". ----LOL You don't respond to the fact that I have PROVEN you wrong on about EVERYTHING you said, then you have the balls to comment on me not looking at things accurately- you make me laugh- in a sad, sad sorta way. Dodge the reality of the slamming you just took- really dont reply, just give me a vague comment on how my views on reality are skewed and pretend your points were not ALL rendered MUTE and laughable 3 minutes ago REALLY anything to make you feel better. "Pretty soon, Ashcroft is going to take those words that you use off HBO, so you're probably wise to use them while you can. Let me just say, "You're right about everything" if it makes you feel better". - Dream on and have fun doing it - you obviously have to date (Glad you can frosee the future though- funny thats your best arguement- it can be disputed because it hasnt happened yet)
April 22, 2004, 5:39 p.m. CST
Michael Moore...champion of the working class, striving to expose the evils of the right wing conspiracies of the Nazi Bush administration and all those gun totting NRA fascists...well Drudge just reported that he outsources his web page and servers to Canada!!! Granted in the grand scheme of things, this doesnt amount to many jobs from a worker perspective...but if Moore is so anti corporation...so pro worker...then he wouldnt be a hypocrite to outsource one job of his media "cough" empire...just goes to show that the left is equally hypocritical to the right...Moore is the left's Rush Limbaugh...a pompous, misinformed puppet who spouts rhetoric with little facts backing them up...and Harry is his little lapdog...do us a favor Harry and stick to reporting movie news...I am not going to trust the political judgment of a bunch of self righteous Hollywood insiders and their flock of disciples.
Lordy, I just about chocked on my taco when I read that one. Talk about an absloutist statement! Now, I
April 22, 2004, 5:47 p.m. CST
by Fatal Discharge
"So what happened to the weapons that were there in the 80's and 90's?" - You're going to war over things that were there many years ago...I thought it was about what he was doing now? Why wasn't Saddam taken out of power in the previous war?...That had to be the biggest blunder ever, and promising the Shiites support if they fought against Saddam then leaving the country and having them slaughtered by Saddam as a result. Then people wonder why they hate Americans so much? "And in buildings where weapons are stored, there might not be a residue if the weapons are sealed." - Somehow, the impression of those grungy buildings having modern antiseptic features for WMD capibility is very unrealistic. And the vehicles which supposedly were for shipping the chemicals had no traces of them either. I'd say you're grasping at straws. Nicole21 - "The amount of rancor and rage coming from the left is quite irrational and in many cases hysterical. Sad...so many otherwise decent people dedicating so much negative energy towards an irrational fear and hatred of one man." My exact feelings...on the right's determination to bring down Clinton. This is about something that actually is having impact on your country and the world not just a man's sexual affair.
April 22, 2004, 5:58 p.m. CST
http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=17386 This talkback should be saved by the Smithsonian. In a brilliant display of argumentation that bests anything seen since the "Protagoras", Meleractor demolishes all of my anti-Matrix: Reloaded arguments and brings me into the cold light of the truth. With the eloquence of Cicero, he seizes control of your mind, and launches you on a surreal journey to an enlightenment which goes BEYOND the narrow confines of standard logic and mere direct argument. Click through, and if you can piece together the thread of the dialogue despite the out-of-order talkback, you too can listen to the divine sound of one Meleractor clapping. Or not clapping, as the case may be.
April 22, 2004, 6:25 p.m. CST
...and Sky Captain looks awesome. Like a dream or something. I agree with Harry, this is the kind of movie I've dreamed of seeing since the dawn of time. That said, it will probably bomb like all the other 30's era films of the past (someone above listed them so I won't) For those of us who CAN appreciate a film like this, at least it WILL come out and we can see it, whether or not the studio makes money is their affair. Hopefully it doesn't become a "wallpaper of shame" movie though. You know, it's a cool-looking movie so you download some wallpaper for your PC, then you see the film and it sucks, you get back to work and boot up your computer and there's the movie's wallpaper laying there like some sort of tumorous turd and you change it before any of your co-workers notice. I woulda downloaded Van Hesling wallpaper already if I wasn't so certain of that happening. Oh, and politics! The eroding of privacy and civil liberties and the expansion of the US 'empire' has been going on for years and if anything, 9/11 was a great excuse to speed up the process. It was a blank check to overreact that would have been cashed in by ANY administration. Don't worry, though. When Arnold gets in the White House, things are gonna be different! "The situation in Iraq is worsening... Send in THE PRESIDENT!"
April 22, 2004, 6:38 p.m. CST
by Commando Cody
Great desktop at the site of Angelina Jolie in costume. What's the word I'm looking for? Oh yeah, yummy! RARRRRRR. Though, conversely, who the hell thought Gwenth Paltrow would make a good romantic lead in a big budget action movie? As an actress she sucks (her line delivery even in the trailer is already cringe inducing) and let's face it, Paltrow's only getting work off the momentum of her SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE Oscar (which was a joke too). Besides, in the context of the movie, what male with working balls would actually pick wimpy, whiny Paltrow over sex bomb Jolie? In that leather flight suit and eye patch that's one hot woman. For this film to have any shred of story continuity believability, early in the movie Sky Captain better do a barrel roll and dump Paltrow out and fly off with Franky...
April 22, 2004, 6:47 p.m. CST
My Mom have has been working on this movie for nearly 2 years, and she told me to tell all you fucking geeks to shut the fuck up! Your gonna love this movie, and your gonna see it no matter when it comes out....So go play your silly ass playstation games and chill the fuck out! Love, My Mom!
April 22, 2004, 7:22 p.m. CST
It's good Paramount changed the release date away from Spidey, but September? This is a total Christmas movie, moving it back would have been the perfect oppurtunity to put it in December. 12/10 Would have been perfect
April 22, 2004, 7:30 p.m. CST
Here's what I suspect might happen: F-911 will create a firestorm of support for the anti-Bush crowd, comprised mostly of college students who will forget to vote. People who vote for Kerry, who by the way served in Vietnam, aren't so much voting for him as they are voting against Bush. The leftist demographic will be split between those who vote Kerry because he's 'electable' and those who defiantly vote Nader, in disgust of Kerry's wobbling. In a Perot-esque outcome, the election is awarded to Bush. The Moore crowd will again chant 'no mandate!' 'stole the election!' while Moore pockets a cool few million, another academy award, and continues to call for the death of American contractors in Fallujah. To be any different, Moore would need to stress the op-ed nature of his film at every turn, as touting a 'factual documentary' would again invite (even more than usual) massive scrutiny and a thorough whipping on Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Bottom line prediction is that little will change. Probable? Si? No?
April 22, 2004, 7:32 p.m. CST
I can't believe I'll have to wait until Sept 17. This looked like on of the few good movies coming out this summer. Van Helsing? Garfield? I, Robot? Catwoman? Sheesh what a sea of shit.
April 22, 2004, 7:45 p.m. CST
<<<"Like" or "As" is often used in a simile. You're not a terrorist or pit bull".>>> - So if I said arguing with you is "like arguing with a retarded moron" you would not view that as name calling huh? Interesting. Wow talk about trying to get off on a technicality...you kill me man... nice try though... really. (especially given that you followed this with "So indoctrinated that the only way to deal with you is ignore you or kill you.") =================== <<<"If you feel that you've handed me a logical ass-kicking, that's all that matters. My motto is: if it doesn't hurt me, let the baby have his bottle".>>> - I don't "feel" I handed you your pants, did I KNOW I did. Go take debating 101 so you understand the principals, then reread our "debate"- it don't get too much more clear cut than this. =================== <<<"You're right about seeing into the future too. I can't see something John Ashcroft hasn't yet done, but I'm learning from the administration that I can't wait for things to happen. Ashcroft is an impending gathering threat and he must be attacked pre-emptively">>> - Thats fine, unfortunately you don't understand the definition of "a threat" which kinda kills your point. ================== <<<"And using your own cool brand of logic: I expect you to vote for Kerry because you don't know what he may accomplish in the future, whereas you know exactly what Bush has done".>>> - Your attmpt at my "Brand of logic" is an abject failure. I will take what Bush and Kerry are saying and their records- and no decision here, I take Bush. Kerry changes his mind every 6 months (therby being wrong as much as right). Bush is pretty clear, goes in a known direction, and generally makes the right decisions. ================== "We will preserve the peace by "We will preserve the peace by fostering an era of good relations among the world's great powers" - George W. among the world's great powers" - George W". - Yup and he made a good faith effort to do so, Last time I checked it was France and Germany who agreed to "final Warnings" et all then tried to back out of that. Simply not good faith. Last time I checked "We will preserve the peace by "fostering good relations" does not entail placing Americans at risk to kiss the asses of countries that lie to you and don't deal in good faith. And the "Era of Peace" in this case is much more achievable by ousting dictators who are breaking treaties BEFORE they become a FULL threat. Again go check nevil & churchill. Your arguements have the depth of someone with a very limited knowledge of how to ensure REAL peace. --- Only a liberal would base his whole argument on such a weak quote from Bush (there is this little thing in the adult world called conflicting interests- which is what he dealt with here- Last time I checked Bush also promised to "Protect The American People" - Again put down the black and white comic books-and start realizing decisions are not nearly as simple as what imply by bothering with that quote.
April 22, 2004, 7:45 p.m. CST
Jude law SUCKS! He and kidman(=botox) were awfuls in cold moutain He's fade!
April 22, 2004, 7:51 p.m. CST
"US 'empire' has been going on for years and if anything, 9/11 was a great excuse to speed up the process" ----LMAO, Please Fun- don't use big words like "empire" in a post until you know the definition of the aformentioned "large" word
April 22, 2004, 7:52 p.m. CST
This looks like a celeb packaged piece of shit to me. It reeks of soullness hollywood crap, but only worse because it was made by some fucking computer nerd with too much time on his hands. Lame city. www.WhiteEyeLid.com
April 22, 2004, 7:58 p.m. CST
Stop complaining about having to pay $$$ to see GOOD movies. You should be complaining about all the CRAP fed to us that we don't WANT to see let alone pay for. When a great artist makes a great film you SHOULD be HAPPY to give him your money because it encourages them to make MORE good movies. If you don't think Kill Bill V. 1 was amazing then you're a retard to begin with and who gives a fuck what movies you see. www.WhiteEyeLid.com
April 22, 2004, 8:05 p.m. CST
I think that this film would get lost in the summer. This is a real fan movie, and such movies need time and space to breathe to gather a non-fan audience. Fan movies like this need word-of-mouth to move beyond the fans and to garner a more mainstream audience. There is no time for word-of-mouth in the summer. Media Hype rules all. The summer is a time for guaranteed hits, like SPIDERMAN 2, not for calculated risks and dark horses like SKY CAPTAIN. Original movies like SKY CAPTAIN need to succeed on two points: 1) Just be a god-damned good movie that people love (this one remains to be seen; I hope this movie kicks ass), and 2) word-of-mouth from reviewers and the first fans who see the movie opening day. I think genre films like this need to draw in not just the fans, but the fans co-workers, sisters, brothers-in-law, etc. That is how movies that do not have huge ad budgets and guaranteed audiences can win. Word-of-mouth and good reviews are key for generating this kind of buzz, and such a phenomenon never happens anymore in the crowded summer sked. Better to push a darkhorse movie like this back into the Fall, where it can find an audience. I would even think it would do better in October or November. In September, movie-goers are just getting over the exhaustion of seeing all the required summer blockbusters. Later in the Fall, film fans are ready for something new again. SKY CAPTAIN is a scifi action flick, and is counter-programming for all the oscar-bait dramas that get released in the Fall. So, there is usually little competition from other genre pics in the Fall, and so all egnre/sf/fantasy/action lovers will go see the movie (the only other major genre releases in the Fall tend to be horro flicks that get released around Halloween). So, I think they are smart for taking this pic out of the Summer schedule and kicking it back to the Fall. Being a Pulp and Golden Age Science Fiction fan, I hope the movie is as good as it looks. Looking forward to this one. Barron out.
April 22, 2004, 8:05 p.m. CST
Me and Chris Rock think your tune is great.Chris Rock also talks sense concerning politics. Sky captain looks good.The delay doesn't mean nothing. I'm sure we all have plenty to get on with in the meantime.
April 22, 2004, 8:05 p.m. CST
No, putting together pretty pictures doesn't make a filmmaker. Making a film does. Just absolutely amazing you find it in you to trash a guy who really wants to put his vision on the screen as a 'geek with little else to do.' Would you rather see something made by a top-level executive with little else to do but focus group test what's hip right now? Wow, the questions this raises. Like, what exactly ARE you looking forward to? Did you also hate The Rocketeer? Did The Girl Next Door speak to you like few other movies have? I'm just being mean of course, but I take issue with people that hate something because it seems to be doing something a little differently. I'd be willing to forgive you if you admitted not having seen the giant robots.
April 22, 2004, 8:09 p.m. CST
This is a genre movie fan site. I want to talk about SKY CAPTAIN and other genre flicks, not politics (if I want to talk politics, I will go to a politics site). I know Michael Moore's picture is coming out eventually, but can we just have a seperate Talkback for that movie and SKY CAPTAIN. All of this political discussion is distracting from any good SKY CAPTAIN discussion. Harry, please don't mix any more Michael Moore comments into your pots. Better to do a single article and Talkback devoted to Farenheit 911 and seperate this stuff out from other movies. Just my opinion. Thanks.
April 22, 2004, 8:14 p.m. CST
by xavier masterson
Try it you'll find reading fun. The post was about Blockbuster charging seperately for films that have been split for better picture quality like Gangs of New York. Kill Bill hate aside that was the jist of the post unless Nicole21 is full of shit.
April 22, 2004, 8:16 p.m. CST
It just looks crappy, but I'll see it because I too don't like to judge before I see the whole thing, but since it's not out yet and this IS the talkbacks, I'm talkin shit for fun. It looks lame. Simple as that. Also I hate to see a first time director sell out to the highest bidder with a bunch of fancy computer graphics and big fancy actors. It's just not what appeals to me in films. Although I do appreciate the idea of a director making his own movie on his own computer and then taking it to the studios to just fill in the stars and pay for A&P. But this particular one just looks lame. www.WhiteEyeLid.com
April 22, 2004, 8:21 p.m. CST
I agree it's lame for Blockbuster to charge extra for splitting a movie that wasn't meant to be split, I was taking offense to her not willing to pay for GOOD movies that were split in two THEATRICALLY. Also, if you don't think there's a reason the two Kill Bill films to be split, then you just haven't seen them. Money aside, Tarantino is about getting the largest and widest audience possible. If you think HALF the people who saw these two films would have sat through a 3 1/2 hour kung fu flick (that's how it was marketed) then you have too much faith in Americans. Yes it's about money for Harvey, but for Quentin it's about getting his movies seen, something he was very hurt by with Jackie Brown. Kill Bill is an important work. I'm glad he split it. I'm also excited to see the whole thing edited together on DVD. Also Xavier, eat a dick up. www.WhiteEyeLid.com
April 22, 2004, 8:39 p.m. CST
If it's done right based on what I've seen, it could be the kind of movie that blows everything else out of the water. This movie is more than just effects, you can tell.
April 22, 2004, 8:44 p.m. CST
Tone down the anger psycho. She can have an opinion as much as the next person, why don't you argue something she said next time as opposed to just arguing because she's a girl. Looks like someone didn't get invited to prom. And the whole "your generation" thing? Way to get all your "crazy person" issues out in one talkback post. At least your efficent. Psycho.
April 22, 2004, 8:53 p.m. CST
Wouldn't know the truth if it beat him over the head.
April 22, 2004, 9:05 p.m. CST
I'm sure you all have the inside word of whats REALLY going on in the halls of power and I just wanna say thanks for taking time out to share it with us unworthy trolls at AICN. Btw, Angelina is a goddess....
April 22, 2004, 9:19 p.m. CST
Okay, so Fluffy and Meleractor can't stop sucking each others dicks (injecting and 69ing, injecting and 69ing)....but at LEAST they haven't dissolved into ppppathetic ppppolitical pppposturing. At LEAST they are sticking to the topic of film...at LEAST they are entertaining!
April 22, 2004, 9:33 p.m. CST
I aopologize for posting highlights from another topic about the Matrix, But this shit is beatiful as only a polished turd can be: =========== "I've already stated that I will no longer try to explain these films to Matrix bashers, but I will rub their noses in their blind stupidity. All super heroes have a power cap, any creator of super heroes worth their salt knows this. "Neo's cap" is intricately weaved into the whole meaning of the fucking films. If your asking why Neo didn't go all "Akira" in the Matrix, you do not know what his cap is, if you do not know what his cap is, or even worse, you didn't even know he had a cap, then the meaning of the movies has escaped you and Meleractor is still laughing at your ignorance". ====== And after a brilliant and specific 1000 word analysis by his opponent who specifies why the "Philosophy" behind Matrix 2 and 3 was moronic garbage fit only for children under the age of 7, his reply: ================= "But we do not proceed in this debate until you answer definitively the question of whether or not Neo has a cap. If you do not acknowledge a cap exists then there really is no need to continue. It's kinda crucial when analyzing the films".
April 22, 2004, 10:06 p.m. CST
He wears it on his head in all his danged movies. I don't remember ever seeing Neo wear a cap...just sunglasses and silly S+M latex bondage wear that geeks think looks cool, but is really uber-geeky...so, not everyone has a cap, in response to Malefactor, or whatever his name is...Speaking of caps, can we put a cap on political discussion on AICN? I come here to discuss silly/fun/exciting genre movies. If I want politics, I can read a paper or get into a debate on campus..please, cap the politics, and lets get back to movies! Mindless entertainment designed to distract us for two hours from the serious issues of life! That's what American entertainment is, by God! Lets fight to the death over whether the vehicles in SKY CAPTAIN should have flapping wings or not! Save the serious political discussions for the real world; this is our mythical cyber-space, not reality! Enough reality...lets get back to our previously scheduled nonsense..Barron out...
April 22, 2004, 10:06 p.m. CST
-- OK I previously posted what up to that time had been the comedy on that talkback (Circular speak on an issue that was beaten dead days before that post hit), but I had seen NOTHING yet. ================ ---First, I need to apologize to Fluffy for skimming over your post on THIS TB and thinking you REALLY liked the 2 Matrix Sequels. I should have known before now that you are too intelligent to have that opinion of those 2 dung-heaps. ================== ---Secondly, PLEASE get pissed more often, the last 4 posts (or so) you made was the best I have ever seen from you, impressive and hilarious at the same time. ===================== --- Third, EVERYONE SHOULD read the last 1/4 of that TB and all the Fluffy, Malwhatever, Ancient Lights, and illegit comments. ==================== --- Maleracter's replies are so awesomely unintentionally funny that I nearly shit myself. And Ancient (thanks for seconding that I check that out) you pegged Maleracter perfectly "You're killing me, man. You're like Cumpston. I can't decide whether you're a total idiot, or the greatest comedic genius on the net. Either way, I love it Seriously, can you and Fluffy do a weekly column? I'd PAY for that".--- --- I SECOND THAT ONE. This internet topic was better than the last 5 books I read. =========================== http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/tb_display.cgi?id=17386#756397 Read it!
April 22, 2004, 10:33 p.m. CST
"Oh, and I'm flattered that you study my posts bit by bitBut when you do so, you reveal your arguement technique to be the failure it is. Picking apart each sentence and deciding that you'll get the last word on each topic is boring (and tough to read)". ----I do this not to "get the last word" on each subject, but to clearly refute the "points" you don't have. (Rather than YOUR debating tactic of ignoring every point made and just re-generalizing your position in diffent words). Difference- I am debating, I still can't figure out what you're doing. ================ "And instead of putting forth any new information, you simply state, "Uh...like...nuh-uh. Do your homework." ----Maybe you need to take a reading comprehention class, with VERY few exceptions I rebut your points VERY directly (My favorite rebuttal being to your complete clusterfuck of an analysis of Bush's comments). I don't bother going far beyond what you wrote because I have already practically written a book on this exact subject (different TB), and I'd rather not repeat it--Especially since your understanding of the situation does not appear to warrant responses of that detail. So I just rebut your basic points. ===================== "And all the secrecy and disinformation of this administration is going to snowball and culminate in a close election in November. Which Kerry will win". ---The incorrect information came from the CIA not the administration (a little fact you still don't seem to get even though 3 people have pointed it out to you). Hence the same message/conclusion over multiple presidents and many members of both parties before the war became a political football. The election will probably be close, but Kerry won't win it. He's a twit with arguements as shallow as a puddle- this stuff works in commercials- it won't in a debate. ============ "And Bush will demand a recount. And we in America can relax knowing that the world will once again have a little faith in the American people" --- America can ALREADY relax the right guy won last time, and he'll win again. And I'm gonna laugh when it happens because so many of you liberal demegogues seem to define yourselves as "anti-bushies" so much you won't know what to do with yourselves when you have another 4 years in front of you. In fact maybe we'll all get lucky and some jackasses like Barbara Streisand and Gweneth Paltrow will become so frustrated they'll move to some socialist country and we thereby won't have to listen to the inane and pathetic ramblings of high school dropouts who think they are polictical experts that must impart their "genius" to the dirty huddled masses because they have the unique credentials of being able to act- thus apparently making them unique authoities on ssubjects they don't really understand.
April 22, 2004, 10:48 p.m. CST
by Commando Cody
I have a friend involved with the production and he told me weeks ago there was no way in hell this was going to make it's release date. He told me the effects work was taking FAR longer than anyone properly anticipated. On the flip side, he said they were working hard to make everything look great, they were just lacking manpower (so the only way to make the date would be to farm out more sections to other FX houses.) Anyway, I had a chance to see some assorted production art and it was GORGEOUS. The art direction/design on this film is truly stunning and geek-a-licious and Oscar worthy. The look of this movie alone would be enough to get my ass in a theater. The only thing I could compare it to was when STAR WARS first hit and there was that entire "new look" it brought to things by creating an entire unique universe. That said, my first instinct looking at the art was to say "I want a toy of everything here!" and I doubt I'll be alone feeling that way once the movie debuts. But if that's the case, why September 17 vs. releasint it a mere 60 days later for Thanksgiving weekend? More kids are home from school and looking to get out (so are entire families) and it's the busiest shopping weekend of the year. So any toys and side licensing that Paramount would be hoping to prop up against the movie would sell best THEN as well, thus helping the studio recoup money faster. Maybe it's me, but I still don't get why they're going with a lame late September date vs. the holidays (Thanksgiving or Christmas) especiailly since they're claiming they want more time to properly market this so it finds an audience. Seems to me Paramount marketing is really dropping the ball here...as I said, even for ancillary licensing.
April 22, 2004, 11:58 p.m. CST
Do not make the mistake that all conservatives are affiliated with W, or the religious right wing zealots...there are quite a few conservatives out there who are quite disenfranchised with the current administration, but that being said...I would prefer a decisive President to one who outsources our foreign policy and national security...defaulting decisions to the incompetent and powerless United Nations, or some lofty concept of a world consensus...I do not think W make a compelling case for us going into Iraq, but I think that our intervention was necessary and inevitable...the weapons inspections of the last ten years may have removed Saddam's arsenal, but we know he had them at some point...and we know he had ambitions of resuming his weapon's program once the United Nations was not there to hold his hand...as for the current situation in Iraq, Iraq is like another little chunk of real estate we have troops stationed in called the former Yugoslavia...a factional society comprised of people who are historical enemies, held together loosely by a fanatical dictator named Tito...well when Tito died, that society crumbled into Civil War...does anyone here honestly believe that once Saddam died, of natural causes or otherwise, Iraq would not have splintered as well...he had no clearly named successor, and it would not have been above his two sons to war with one another for control of the country...there was going to be a bloody end to Saddam Hussein's reign regardless...and yes the only reason we are engaging Iraq and not other dictators of the same ilk is because of oil...no shit...we are the most gluttonous nation on the planet when it comes to oil comsumption...so all you left wing nutjobs who bitch about the war in Iraq...what are you doing to cut down America's reliance on oil such that the Middle East is no longer of strategic interest...not a goddamn thing...you are the same people who bitch about gas prices going up...oh and Michael Moore can go to hell, Harry is a fat bastard, and this post has nothing to do with Sky Captain.
April 23, 2004, 12:19 a.m. CST
I love that arguing style. It fills me with laughter. Throwing out general opnions and baseless "facts" and then declaring himself the victor of the argument right then and there. Your every response in essence is "Nuh uh liberal! oh snap! BOOYEAH I GOT YOU!" Funny stuff man. True that conservatives control the presidency and congress but conservative idealism has for the last 200 years and will continue to become more and more liberal. Do your eally think youa re going to keep gays from marrying, stop stem cell research, abolish abortion, and make America a fundamentalist Christain state? You really think we will keep up this "America must defend itself so fuck the rest of the world" attitude? You really think the FCC can keep up this "moralistic" crusade against everything they arbitrarily deem indecent? Give me a fuckin' break it's not gonna happen. Not one of those things. I didn't say the conservative party would go away, at least not in name. I'm saying that their social and world politics are going to slowly fade with time. In 50 years everything conservatives bitch about now will have come to pass and they will bitch about something else, which 50 years from then will come to pass. Conservatives can slow down progress but can't stop it. So blow fire till you're blue in the face. Time is on our side.
April 23, 2004, 12:41 a.m. CST
Spare me the leftist propoganda of conservatives trying to slow the inevitable "progress" of society...let me tell you about a little empire named Rome...a society that fell to its own gluttony and self indulgence, which is exactly the route America will go if we do not maintain some limits to your so called progress...Rome entered into a era of pacifism, trying to appease the growing barbarian hordes at its gates with payments and "diplomacy"...when Rome lost the will to maintain that which made its society great, it crumbled under its own excess...and guess who held the torch through the Middle Ages...the source for the preservation of knowledge in the Western World...you guessed it the Christian Church...now granted the Vatican has more blood on its hands then Hitler, Stalin and Saddam Hussein combined, but the over zealous controlling aspects of Christianity was the effect to the cause of Roman society;s indulgence...so now we have a backlash against this conservative thinking in favor of more left leaning idealism...the pendulum swings back and forth, with both sides equally ignorant of the other side's view...we live in a Republic, and as such, for freedom to truly be enjoyed, that means everyone, even those who dont agree with you, get a say...I dont believe our moral compass as a society should be dictated by the Christian church, yet our society was nearly homogenous in Judeo Christian thought when America was founded...that we have become a mixed culture, and quite secular since then, is not necessarily a bad thing...regardless of what God you choose to worship, or even if you do not believe in a higher being, it is nevertheless necessary for a society as a whole to provide its own moral compass...but our society has become so polarized such that the compass is out of wack, with each group choosing its own due north and expecting the rest of society to follow...so granted I do not expect you to live in a society dictated by Christianity, and similarly I do not want to live in a socialist workers paradise...socialism is a failed experiment my friends...but somewhere in the middle, in a little place called compromise, perhaps there is a direction we can all live with and accept...but that would require that those who are slaves to their own ideology step back and hear the arguments of the other side, and both sides are equally guilty of being ignorant, close minded and immature about the process.
April 23, 2004, 12:48 a.m. CST
I'm really looking forward to this movie, but the trailer looks like the color know has been turned down to 10%...just a hair above black & white. That's sucks. Please, make it cool and beautiful, and in full color. Artistic black & white anything is pretentious and lame.
April 23, 2004, 12:50 a.m. CST
Shouldn't you be busy burning books or something instead of posting on a board that's devoted to the love of an artform? Doesn't that go against your politics?
April 23, 2004, 1:17 a.m. CST
by Lenny Nero
From what I saw in the "next trailer," everything looks fine. Kevin must reallllllllllllly be picky. I mean, there's a plane fight sequence that takes place UNDERWATER! Goddamn please let this do well.
April 23, 2004, 1:51 a.m. CST
by el zar
April 23, 2004, 2:52 a.m. CST
Would that be the church that participated in the crusades? Or the church that participated in the reformation. Leaving a death toll of millions. The middle ages were about as hellish a time as human history has ever seen even with the Church. Now I agree with you Starbuck when you ay we need to find a middle ground in regards to religion. Religion isn't going away completely it's just dissipating. To what extreme only time will tell. Eventually we will be forced to find a happy medium. I believe that religion gave us some steady values to build a foundation on and now it's time for it to step back.
April 23, 2004, 4:22 a.m. CST
by TheGinger Twit
April 23, 2004, 4:24 a.m. CST
I guess being an internet journalist exempts one from reporting facts. If you took a look at Hollywood Reporter, you'd see the real decision behind moving back the release date was because Paramount knew they had no chance in hell standing up against Spidey 2. "...this work of staggering beauty and genius" ?? "...To be able to complete the effects and not cut any corners at all" What are you, 13 years old? I did all of five minutes of research to find out the real story here, and state facts, not opinions. Kerry Conran had this deal drop in his lap. It was pure dumb luck as a result of Pixar's huge success with a full-computer-animated feature films that spawned a plethora of dealmaking that resulted in just about anything with the concept of computer graphics getting the green light. Am I the only one that looks at this film and sees the same stupidity that lay behind the debacle that was "Wing Commander"? Am I the only one who saw the trailer and saw an utter piece of crap? And what's with everyone going so nuts for the "style" ? There's no style...it's all garbage. And can anyone tell me the plot to this film from the trailer? There's no story here--it's just to show off the "style." This film is a total accident which has been blown way out of proportion and should be dismissed as such.
April 23, 2004, 5:59 a.m. CST
The fake CGI looks awful. Forget September, why not just delete the digital files and save us all the torture of this crap
April 23, 2004, 6:47 a.m. CST
by Big Dumb Ape
...If I had a fucking clue what the hell you're talking about. Burning books? Huh? Where do you get that from ANYTHING I ever posted here? In fact, other than saying Michael Moore is a piece of lying shit -- which clearly OTHERS here have obviously agreed with me on -- the ONLY other stance I took right from the start, waaaaaaaaaaaay back early in this talkback, was that Harry should keep movie news separate from his politics, or at the very least run a sidebar political column where people could debate his stances. Which by the way, is an idea that OTHERS here have echoed TOO -- namely that when they're reading about SKY CAPTAIN, they don't see why there has to be a cocksucking loving plug by Harry for fat boy Moore. And as for me posting on a PUBLIC message board that's about an "artform", excuse me if I voiced an opinion here just like EVERYONE ELSE did. Get off your high horse and get a clue. In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, "What a maroon!"
April 23, 2004, 8:17 a.m. CST
I am well aware that the Vatican has blood on its hands...the Crusades, Inquisition and many of the European Wars prior to the 20th century were due to church intervention...but the church also helped to spark the Rennaissance in commissioning artists and supporting the spread and documentation of knowledge...granted there are exceptions like how they dealt with Galileo, but books, literacy and other educational tools were maintained largely by monks in monasteries while the remainder of Europe suffered the Dark Ages...of course there were other centers of knowledge at this time, particularly in Asia and the Islamic world, but the church is a mixed bag of inconsisitencies...a lot of good and ironically enough a lot of bad...kind of like America.
April 23, 2004, 12:03 p.m. CST
WMD's are not a detail! Bush said Saddam was an 'immediate threat', so he sent people off to war. Then we learned that Saddam was NOT an immediate threat. Plus, there's a massive difference between a documentary film and sending people off to war. One is an aesthetic issue, the other a political issue. For the record, I'm not a liberal. The world doesn't fall neatly into "left" and "right", you know? What else could I expect from someone who calls themself Big dumb ape? Nothing but sticks and stones, motherfucker.
April 23, 2004, 12:07 p.m. CST
On the subject of the movie... the first time I heard the title on this site, I didn't click on it. The title is cheese. When I saw the trailer for the first time in the theater -- not knowing what it was -- I thought it was some faux 30's parody loaded with some stars which would then segue into some Will Rogers Institute ad or something. It was SO over the top self-consciously retro that, when I realized it actually WAS a movie and not some parody charity ad or something, I was amazed. Because, while the look of the film is kind of fun, the movie LOOKS like a really, really poor judgement call. That being said, the guy I was sitting with was jazzed about it, thought it looked great, and is eager to see it. For me, it'll have to have a pretty high Tomatometer reading to get my matinee dollar. I'm just really, really tired of directors using other films as inspiration instead of perhaps getting juiced by some part of a life they've actually LED, and being inspired by THAT, and wanting to impart something to the audience other than beautiful, stylized regurgitation.
April 23, 2004, 12:08 p.m. CST
Since when is Iraq a "key spawning ground for mideast terrorism?" Saddam had a secular government, he didn't associate with fundamentalist. Of course now that Bush has killed thousands of Iraqi's, leaving their relatives angry and voiceless, I'm pretty sure Iraq is a key spawning ground for terrorism. That's because Bush made it that way. I thought Afganistan, Palestine, and Saudi Arabia were the key spawning grounds for terrorism. Pick up a paper once in a while you BIG DUMB APE!!!
April 23, 2004, 1:19 p.m. CST
You are an idiot. Sincerely.
April 23, 2004, 1:51 p.m. CST
by Lost Skeleton
I will not dignify your cheap comments with an answer. FYI, I know for a fact that I have more education than you (UPENN Law '99). Anyway, I read the fear in your comments. FYI, I gave this President the benefit of the doubt after the election. I am a moderate (one of the independant swing voters out there)who was willing to accept Bush's rationale on the war-especially after 9/11. I am upset because he lied to me and I am very offended by that. I believed Clinton should have been punished (impeachment was punishment enough but I agreed that he should not be removed from office) for his deception and I believe Bush should be voted out for his deception. We were told that Iraq was an immediate danger- and, of course, that turned out not to be the case. This was about conquest- yes...do not shy away. This is the dream of a "christian soilder" hoping to reclaim the holy land and its oil riches to the West (Bush has stated that he believes he is on a mission from God- ironically, so does Bin Laden). ( Don't sleep, there were plenty of Christian missionaries who went into Iraq hoping to convert some Iraqis) Bush took us to war with a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Meanwhile, Bin Laden is allowed to escape because valuable military resources are shipped away from Afganistan (a justified war of self-defense) to an illegal invansion. Now, that it is shown that there are no WMD and that Americans are not welcomed as liberators, but as occupiers...now that this is all blowing up in our faces and that we, as Americans, have lost our moral leadship in the world...now with all of the blood, unfairly spilled by the middle-class and poor of this country, while the christian right intellectuals preach about sacrifice and leadership from their protected ivory perch. Now that the truth is revealing itself (the Bush support of the Bin Laden family, the Reagan support,training and encourgement of Islamic radicals who would later become part of Bin Laden's network of killers, the support by the U.S. of Hussien's regime- as long as he stayed in line- the continued support of leaders just as bad as Saddam like Gen Mussareff (sp?) in Patikstan who destroyed democracy in his country and who destroyed any aspect of democracy in his country without Bush even batting an eye) The hyprocisy of our foreign policy is biting us in the ass and will continue to bite us in the ass! Face the facts, neo-cons have been planning this invansion for years and 9/11 was just an excuse to go in and take oil and suppress rights. The bullshit of the conservative movement and the supporters of this "Crusade" is too high and stinks to bad now to hide. It is ending neo-cons, I read the fear in you! Kerry 2004- we are taking back what we never lost in 2004 (think about it ape boy!)
April 23, 2004, 2:36 p.m. CST
Bush never said that Iraq was an "immediate" threat. The quote does not exist. Better men than you have tried to find it. Cheney I won't attempt to speak to, but Bush simply never said that. The two biggest myths going right now are "Bush said Iraq was an imminent threat" and "Bush said Iraq was responsible for 09/11". Neither of those statements were ever made. The most anyone can say is that Bush allowed the public to believe these things by inference.
April 23, 2004, 2:38 p.m. CST
by Wee Willie
But he's got several books published, several films made, a tv series, and an OSCAR. What do you clowns got? Your dicks in your hands, that's wut you got.
April 23, 2004, 2:39 p.m. CST
Source: Los Angeles Times, January 29, 2003 THE STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS Bush Calls Iraq Imminent Threat "Trusting in Hussein's Restraint 'Is Not an Option,' President Says By Maura Reynolds, Times Staff Writer WASHINGTON -- A somber and steely President Bush, speaking to a skeptical world Tuesday in his State of the Union address, provided a forceful and detailed denunciation of Iraq, promising new evidence that Saddam Hussein's regime poses an imminent danger to the world and demanding the United Nations convene in just one week to consider the threat.
April 23, 2004, 2:41 p.m. CST
by Wee Willie
But who's more the fool? The fool or the fool who follows the fool on talkback?
April 23, 2004, 2:44 p.m. CST
by Wee Willie
Numberface should shut up. It's pinko-liberals like you that are ruining America AND RUINING THIS SITE!!!!
April 23, 2004, 2:46 p.m. CST
"There's no question that Iraq was a threat to the people of the United States."
April 23, 2004, 3:06 p.m. CST
Since we are talking about Bush, after all. If you do that, you have a lot of quotes about a threat, and one or two about an "urgent" threat, but not one about an "imminent" or "immediate" threat. The policy is called a "policy of preemption" for a reason. It seeks to eliminate threats before they are imminent. That is its entire reason for being. Of course, that sort of "Carthago Delenda Est" thinking tends to end in empire, for the simple reason that if you actually believe in preemption every situation where you have doubt about another state'e intentions or capabilities rapidly becomes a situation calling for preemptive conquest. So the policy itself may be misguided, may lead to unintended consequences, and may be something you want to avoid and to vote against. But that's different from being a deception. Viewed from a preemptive perspective, every system actor who you don't absolutely trust as friendly, and whose capabilities you overestimate, will appear to be a threat. Bush wasn't lying, because he had told you openly that he was adopting the posture of a paranoid. To a paranoid, anyone can be a threat.
April 23, 2004, 3:10 p.m. CST
So anything said by anyone in August of 2003 isn't eligible. If you say, "Bush claimed Iraq was an imminent threat in order to get us to go to war", then you can only consider statements made before we went to war.
April 23, 2004, 3:17 p.m. CST
The closest we came to a quote where the threat was described as, specifically, "imminent", was the Maura Reynolds piece, but that is Maura Reynolds providing her characterization of the State of the Union. The word "imminent" doesn't occur there, either. The preemptive policy openly seeks to pacify potential threats by remaking the political landscape of conflict areas. The thing that is most revolutionary about it is precisely the fact that it claims the moral right to attack another country because of its potential to be a threat. IT IS ACTUALLY A MORE VIOLENT AND AGGRESSIVE POLICY THEN YOU THINK IT IS. It didn't require Iraq to be an "imminent" threat. It only required it to be a country whose intentions could not be predicted to the satisfaction of the person administering the policy. The pacifists among you should actually be much more concerned about that. THAT IS an "urgent" threat, by the standard of the policy, and in fact by the standard set out in the State of the Union speech. // I knew I didn't want to get into this one.
April 23, 2004, 4:09 p.m. CST
by Big Dumb Ape
...Since first "Ancient Lights" posted his long list of quotes formatted in a very specific way, yet THEN magicaly "Numberface" posted in the EXACT SAME formatting and even begins by writing "Mo
April 23, 2004, 4:17 p.m. CST
by Big Dumb Ape
Stop being such a public dolt unless you like parading around as the village idiot. You say things when you don
April 23, 2004, 4:24 p.m. CST
by Big Dumb Ape
We KNOW that he [Saddam] has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power. -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 ****** Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction IS REAL. -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003 ****** We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction. -- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002 ****** Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process. -- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998 ******** In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. -- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 ****** We are in possession of compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002 ****** There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction. -- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002 ****** The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons. -- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002 ****** We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including air and missile strikes on Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs. -- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Democratic Senators John Kerry, Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, and others, Oct. 9, 1998 ****** Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies. -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999 ****** He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983. -- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 ****** We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them. -- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002 ****** If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program. -- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 ****** Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face. -- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998 ****** There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies. -- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001 ****** He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do -- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002 ****** I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security. -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
April 23, 2004, 5:02 p.m. CST
Re: Moore on Fallujah. He didn't call for the death of contractors per se, but you get a much better reaction if you push the context of the quote just out of bounds. Actually he said something to the effect of the contractors being 'war-profiteers' and that the 'Iraqi resistance' will prevail. Eh, let me do some homework: The actual quote is -- "The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not 'insurgents' or 'terrorists' or 'The Enemy.' They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow - and they will win." -- Now call me a part of the vast neo-con conspiracy, but I'm going to have to question Moore's patriotism there. And I have to admit, I have no freaking clue what a neo-con is. The only context I've heard that term used in is "the neo-con/Zionist agenda" or as such. In other words, I've never heard conservatives call themselves neo-cons. All I can think of is that it's the leftist term for the white whale political entity, like the Illuminati, that controls everything and is responsible for all injustices everywhere in the world. And yes, I can sense their fear too, what with the seemingly unstoppable Kerry juggernaut producing record poll results responsive to his multifaceted, nuanced, and grey-shaded propositions (as well as the flipside of said propositions). At least after Kerry's (who by the way served in Vietnam) landslide victory we can look forward to an era of an elite class of good-intentioned liberals whose mandate is "I'm smarter than you! I went to Law school!"
April 23, 2004, 6:51 p.m. CST
I think there are semantic games going on on both sides of the aisle. For example, I simply cannot believe that anyone in government - literally anyone - actually thought that Iraq was about to launch a chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear attack on the United States in the short term. That would be what I would consider an "imminent" threat. So the Democrats running around claiming they were "misled" into supporting the war because they were somehow "tricked" into thinking that Saddam was about to blow up Washington and New York are guilty of their own exaggerations. I harp on the word "imminent" because if you dial back the rhetoric just to the point of deciding if Iraq was a NON-imminent threat, the case for war can be analyzed in a more realistic way. Iraq was a medium-term to long-term threat, and we had to decide whether or not we wanted it to fester. I think everyone in Washington who was in a position to cast a vote knew full well that Iraq had nothing to do with Al Qaeda, and that Hussein was not going to invade anyone or launch any kind of attack on anyone or provide WMD to terrorists of any stripe within, say, the 18 months following March of 2003. The rhetoric about mushroom clouds was poetry, which everyone in a responsible position understood represented a potential future we were seeking to avoid, not something that was supposed to happen in ten minutes. They voted for the war because before the invasion revealed exactly how far gone the Iraqi state was, reasonable people in Washington could agree that Iraq had to be dealt with eventually, so why stand in the way of the political juggernaut Bush had on his side after the 2002 elections? Dean stood up and Kucinich stood up, but nobody else did - so THOSE GUYS have a reason to say "I told you so," but nobody else does.
April 24, 2004, 5:29 a.m. CST
Despite not being a US citizen, despite not living or working in the US, I was recently requested by a company which I consult for to sign up the the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. For FCPA, those brain-numb fools out there who don't know what this means, is a piece of AMERICAN legislation that attempts to make ME, PERSONALLY responsible for any corrupt acts which I might 'reasonably be expected to know about.' This it would appear is at direct odds with the principles of natural justice allegedly enshrined, codified and protected by the US constitution. At the moment, the only Foregin Corrupt Action that I am aware of involved the 'gifting' of contracts to the exclusion of all other bidders of Billions of dollars worth of business to the oilfield services company Halliburton by their ex-president, your now vice president, Dick Cheney for work in Iraq. Way to go Dick, I expect to see you in court on corruption charges imminently, I don't think. Thise type of thing is the reason that much of the rest of the world hates America (Personally I don't feel that way myself - mostly I just feel sorry for Americans). Hypocrisy is never an attractive trait and we in the UK have our own problems in that regard. And for any idiot who thinks that this is merely the ranting of a leftist faggot, wrong. I have however spent some time in the middle east and IMHO the war in Iraq was necessary, I only wish that we could have had politicians with enough guts to be honest about why we went to war there in the first place. Generally there are many problems in the region, mostly with our allies the Saudis even more so than with Iraq or Iran. Anyone who can look with unbiased eyes and has spent any time there will tell you this.
April 24, 2004, 11:44 a.m. CST
I'm sure they anticipated you mentioning the Clinton administration's resolution making regime change in Iraq official policy, hence the 'outdated' argument jabs. I'd also take issue with the claim that Kerry's flip-flopping never hurt anyone. This is someone who voted for the war resolution then voted to pull funding for the troops. Doesn't exactly seem like he's too concerned with the effect of his votes. The only excuse I've heard is that he was duped by Bush. Then he's saying he'd send more troops to finish the job. So in effect, Kerry's aggregate position on Iraq isn't radically different from Bush. I think any principled anti-war advocate would vote Nader.
April 24, 2004, 1:43 p.m. CST
I've never seen those quotes. Now that I have... Well, I'm kinda turned around on the issue.
April 24, 2004, 6:03 p.m. CST
"Ah, sweet naivete Comment: Hey, kid. Seriously. "It's going to be okay. Daddy will take care of you and you're right. He can do no wrong. I didn't realize pointing out the foibles of this administration would shake you like that. Let's just say you out "debated" me. But just in case daddy doesn't win in November, I'll at least give you the pleasure of the last word. I know when to throw a dog a bone. Sir, the floor is yours...." -----LMAO- I LOVE IT you are reduced to saying....NOTHING! (But you are right- I AM "shaken": or should I say Shakin'- With laughter at watching TRUE nievete at work - and with no real intellectual reasoning behind it to boot). Guess you still think you're right "just because"- Whatever, I can't debate that "logic" thats for sure.
April 24, 2004, 7:07 p.m. CST
"I love that arguing style. It fills me with laughter "Throwing out general opnions and baseless "facts"" - <<<<Baseless facts and opinions - UH Such as? (Guess YOUR arguing style-is basically "Throwing out general opinions and baseless "facts"- as I just caught you doing it NOW - LMAO>>> . ================= "and then declaring himself the victor of the argument right then and there" ---<<<Now you make me laugh even more- "Declaring myself the victor" was almost on a humorous note (with Crane)- if you even understand the basics of debate it is OBVIOUS who was the victor- saying I was the
April 24, 2004, 7:17 p.m. CST
Its ok Big dumb ape (My fellow overgrown mokey). When someone disagrees with your valid views, then says you should be out "Burning Books" he is basically saying since his views differ from yours, YOU should not be speaking- THERBY showing that he loves free speech (as books represent in his assenine post) AS LONG AS THAT FREE SPEECH AGREES WITH HIS VIEWS- WHAT A FUCKING HYPOCRITE. Yeah Eyegore go back to burning those books, you are the one in that debate who proved holds that mentality- What a Fucking Clown Shoe.
April 24, 2004, 7:20 p.m. CST
Moore is a moron who deserves all that has been said negatiovely about his dishonest fat ass. YOur analysis of Bush simply shows you don't understand the basics the entire situation. How humerous.
April 24, 2004, 7:54 p.m. CST
"I will not dignify your cheap comments with an answer. FYI, I know for a fact that I have more education than you (UPENN Law '99" <<<Guss you know 2 things, Jack and Shit (and jack just left the building). I am proud of your UPenn LAw- REALLY!!!!, but you must not have gotten very good grades, since basic logic dictates that A)Your law degree (or whatever you got) does not make you an expert on world politics, so is rather MEANINGLESS, and B) YOU HAVE NO IDEA What my degree/carreer is/isn't- therfore you also HAVE NO IDEA whether or not you "have more education" than I do LET ALONE whether that education makes you more or less knowledgeable about the subect at hand). But you DO make me laugh>>>>. =================== "for his deception and I believe Bush should be voted out for his deception". - <<<What deception are you referring to?>>> ============== "We were told that Iraq was an immediate danger"- <<<Yup this info came from the CIA and congress/ both parties/ Clinton agreed based on the information they provided>>> =============== "This was about conquest- yes...do not shy away" --<<<DO you know what conquest MEANS? Apparently not unless your theory is that Iraq will now be the 51st state (And when that happens I'll concede that you were correct- good luck on this one)>>>>>> ======================= "This is the dream of a "christian soilder" hoping to reclaim the holy land and its oil riches to the West (Bush has stated that he believes he is on a mission from God- ironically, so does Bin Laden)". --<<<WOW, is that what it's called when Bush sets up a republic in a foriegn land? (a Republic means Iraq is to be ruled on by Iraquis, as elected by Iraquis last time I checked). But please keep "analyzing" this situation- its rather humerous.>>>> ================ "( Don't sleep, there were plenty of Christian missionaries who went into Iraq hoping to convert some Iraqis) --<<<OH my GOD!!! Thats horrible, is there an inquisition forcing Iraquis to become Christians as well???!!!>>> ============== "Bush took us to war with a country that had nothing to do with 9/11" ----<<<ZZZZZ. ZZZZZ You slept through all those "treaty" and UN resolution issues I take it">>> =============== "to an illegal invansion" <<<<- HMMMM Illegal? DId you study the last resoution and all those lil old resolutions before them & the treaty that preceeded those? Illegality is DEFINITY not even CLOSE to being established here (You might want to watch out for future ass kickings in court if you REALLY think that the invasion can be established as "illegal">>> ============ <<<<You then blather on and oversimplify the rest of the situation with rhetoric I am too tired to debate for the 4th time this week. But Preach the word brother, you are funny>>>. ============ "Kerry 2004- we are taking back what we never lost in 2004 (think about it ape boy!)" ---<<<opps wiat a minute, I smell something didn't you say earlier ---"I am a moderate (one of the independant swing voters out there)who was willing to accept Bush's rationale on the war"--- <<<now "WE" are taking back what "WE" never lost in 04 ---OH what I smell is BULLSHIT - A moderate my ass, nice try you clown shoe, ah and PS: ***REALITY CHECK*** YOU DID LOSE the last election, Check who's in the white house (You know lawyer wannabe- possession 9/10ths of the law- or in this case 10/10ths- especially according to the Supreme court - you know those guys & gals that have FINAL SAY over the law around the past election).
April 24, 2004, 8:36 p.m. CST
"You're right about me not supplying an argument any longer. I gave up on you, brother. Sometimes you've got to cut your losses. You're a party boy, not a swing voter. And I understand the mentality". <<<Actually YOU are the party boy, you appenently oh so convenientlty missed the posts where I Site areas where I am not lumped into the "conservative" cartegory. Oh well, liberal demegogues tend not to let those annoying little things called facts get in the way of thier position, maybe in light of this, yiou should be goving up on...yourself...>>> ============ "It's similar to a battered wife. Throwing facts at you all day long does nothing. You'll see it when you believe it. It would be nice if you believe it before November is all". ---<<<LMAO REALLY!!! Since in for your correlation to be valid you would have EVER had to throw pertinent "facts" in my direction. THat was a good one though!>>>
April 24, 2004, 8:59 p.m. CST
Sorry Doug, When I started debating you point by point, I had mistaken you for someone who had a semblance of intelligence. Instead all I get is someone who argues ENTIRELY in GENERALIZATION (Like 9 out of 10 times I actually cited why you were specifically incorrect with examples, you have yet to cite ONE follow up point to support your laughable views). ==========I am glad you can try to paint frightened pictures of me htough, at least your good for a laugh (if not a point). ====================== and YES I DO stand by my ragging on ass eye for his book burning coment- you see the difference is I am DEBATING you not calling you a "Book Burner" or claiming that you have no right to your opinion- Which is what Clown shoe did to "Big Dumb Ape" - But your not quite bright enough to catch that distinction, are ya?
April 24, 2004, 9:10 p.m. CST
"This is a person that thinks because an anonymous poster states his political affiliation in a Talkback, that makes it a fact. And then, every subsequent post reveals him to be a "Bushbaby". It's also obvious that he's so partisan because every time someone mentions something that even suggests Daddy is wrong", ===<<<Yup stupidity is BE-A-Utiful- You Don't even undertsand what I SAID. I did NOT Simply "state his political affiliation" - I STATED SPECIFIC AREAS I DISAGREE WITH CONSERVATIVE VIEWS, OBRTION ETC. Again, your post basically shows you lack the intelligence to even comprehend what is said LET ALONE analyze it- No WONDER you think the things you do- Explains a lot- ========= And her'e some free advice: why don't you stop asking fellow posters to agree with you- Its PATHETIC - next thing you know You'll get your mommie on line and I'll be arguing with her! >>>
April 24, 2004, 9:13 p.m. CST
BTW: My areas of disagreement (w/ far right conservatives) should have read Abortion etc.
April 24, 2004, 9:28 p.m. CST
Hey doug, Right here, here's who yer arguing with, not other posters- you shoulda learned to fight your own battles back in middle school (unless you're still there). Keep calling for help and your mommie though- I find it funny!
April 24, 2004, 11:40 p.m. CST
Nice comeback...No really...I'd call you a weenie at this point, but your rebuttal would just be "I know you are but what am I". ============= Therefore I shall refrain. With the intellect you have displayed, I just need to sincerely thank you for attempting to insult me...I can think of no higher compliment. ========== By by Dougie, its past your bedtime now sweet dreams sweetie.
April 25, 2004, 12:16 a.m. CST
OOOh, that girl is hot!!! I do love the cross dressing, eye patch wearing, corny dialog and 30s style factor in this film. Gwyneth is... not my favorite actress.. this film would have been much better if Zeta-Jones had been in her role. Not that she is a great actress either (in my opinion) but she can pull off glamour better. For some reason, this Sky Captain reminds me of Dark City from 1998. A lot of visuals and weak plotline (possibly horribly cheesy cha-cha-cha-teeth-chatteringly bad) Viva Septembre!!
April 26, 2004, 8:23 p.m. CST
<<<10. "I have been very candid about my past.???" ---And? ================ <<<9. "I
April 26, 2004, 8:36 p.m. CST
<<<<"Well, there were no pieces to put together in the case of Iraq. That's why the Bush administration is in a shitload of trouble and makes our entire country look like jackasses the world over">>>>. - NO? well then why did all those liberals make THE EXACT SAME CLAIMS AS THE BUSH- AND WHERE IS YOUR PROTEST AGAINST THEIR OUTRAGEOUS LIES??? - And what was all that shit from the inspectors about non -compliance, and why did the UN UNANIMOUSLY find the need for a FINAL WARNING WITH DIRE CONSEQUENCES??? Still no answers genious? Of course not. ============== And incidentally WHAT ABOUT your protsts on Clintons bombings and 3rd world campaigns (Didn't like THAT question from Dragon did ya hytpocrite)-WHERE THE FUCK WERE YOUR PROETESTS THEN? Anyone who questions only the side he disagrees with is a TOOL (I just looked it up in the dictionary- and there was a picture of "Doug Crane" being used as the example.
April 26, 2004, 8:53 p.m. CST
. <<<<I spent eight years listening to that little bitch Bill Clinton and his liberal Democrat cohorts complain that Bush I didn't "finish the job" in Iraq, i.e. kill Saddam. Now I've got to listen to that little bitch John Kerry and his liberal Democrat cohorts complain when Bush II DOES "finish the job." >>>> No you won't Saddam has been taken out. Now is the TOUGH part. And we'll see how it goes. >>>> ------------------ Two Things Douggie: 1) YES WE ARE HEARING YOU liberal HYPOCRITES ALL BITCH NOW- you are NOT waiting to "See how it goes" Nice try though. 2) I thought My "Direct quote" point /counterpoint debating style was WEAK- now you COPY IT!!! LMAO you are a piece of WORK! ========================= <<<<<"And you also spent those 8 years in unprecedented economic security and growth. Remember: everyone benefited from that administration".>>>>> ------REALLY is THAT what you tell yerself at night??? LMAO Last time I checked that "UNPRECIDENTED GROWTH" came as a RIGHT AFTER and AS A RESULT OF an UNPRECIDENTED LANDSLIDE REPUBLICAN VICTORY IN BOTH HOUSE AND SENATE- And what did "Captian pollster" do? He stopped trying to make the USA into a welfare state, tucked his winkie between his legs, and passed JUST ABOUT EVERY REPUBLICAN BILL PUT TO HIM- YUP HE BECAME A REPUBLICAN- WHY??? - Because the Dems got theeir ASSES handed to them like no time in HISTORY- and he "Blew with the wind" I actually LIKED the guy in the last 3/4 of his Presidency - he acted like a Republican most of the time!!! And THATS why we have the great econmic results- YOU CAN THANK the VOTERS and the REPUBLICANS (and Billie wanting to save his politacal hide) fo r the RESULTS- Unless oif course your "Position" here is that for the last 3/4 of his presidency Clinton was the one with a "mandate" and was actually running in congress (you know the guys who WRITE the bills he signs or veto's) You don't even seem to know how this government WORKS!. DAMN DUDE you make me laugh!!!
April 26, 2004, 8:59 p.m. CST
<<<<"Don't argue with me. It's my one true gift.>>> - BATSARD!!! I just fell out of my chair laughing and hurt myself. You have not seucesfully rebutted ANY significta\\ant point since you got here, and you think THIS is your "gift". You are one ofd the weakest debaters I have ever seen , I have had more diffuclult arguements with 16 year old liberals. You're "gifted" alright- "gifted" enough to belong in the "Special Class"
April 26, 2004, 9:32 p.m. CST
<<<"Loved it, buddy!">>> - Thanks (Incidentally, I was glad someone ably took up the torch while I was "wasting my time" going to work, so thanks back at ya). ========== <<<"The sad thing is that poor old Doug Crane doesn't even know how very wrong he is">>>. --- Alas I fear that barring serious "upgrade" in the form of a brain transplant .... he'll never understand THAT he's wrong -let alone the slightly more complicated reasons WHY (let alone to what "degree").
April 26, 2004, 9:49 p.m. CST
Yeah Dragon (If you're still there) MANY of these TB's get hijacked by some liberal ass who thinks he has a point (and almost never does have one, except maybe "pointing" out that he knows near nothing- with rare exceptions). This TB, however became fiery as a result of our dear host injecting Pro-Michael Moore commentary at the end of the "Sky Captain" piece (Usually it comes from nowhere-literally- but I'm afraid that it was destined to get ugly from the start this time)
April 27, 2004, 11:46 p.m. CST
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